This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ This file concentrates on tips for the 6" Atlas 618 lathe, with nominal 18 inches between centres, that was also sold by Sears as various Craftsman 101 models. The earlier Sears model with bronze bearings was 101.07301 and the roller bearing model was 101.21400. The 618 design was later changed to the Atlas 6" Mark II, or "Square Head", and this version had the Sears Craftsman 101.21200 designation. The U.K. site http://www.lathes.co.uk/ also reports additional Atlas-made Sears numbers 101.2048, 101.2048F, and 101.M1518 (mica undercut version). [Incidentally, this site has excellent data and pictures on a great many brands and models of lathes and other metal machinery.] Various Atlas lathes (and their horizontal mill and shaper) were also sold in the U.K. under the Acorn brand. [While the term 6" lathe swing in the United States means the maximum diameter of work over the lathe bed, in the U.K. swing is defined as the radius, so these lathes sometimes may be referred to as 3" lathes. Just to add to the numerical confusion ;-] There is a very small amount of information here on the 6" Craftsman 109, which lathe is a completely different machine made by another company (AA Company, a.k.a. Double A Company) and shares no parts with the 618/101 except the change gears. Users of the 109 would be well served to join that lathe's specific Yahoo news/user group. (The numbers assigned to these lathes included: 109.0701, 109.0702, 109.0703, 109.2046, 109.2053, 109.2062, 109.2063, 109.2064, 109.2082, 109.2127, and 109.2128, at least.) You sometimes read that this lathe was made by Dunlap, which is not correct. "Dunlap" is a Sears applied term that was sometimes used by Sears to name a lower quality line than their upscale Craftsman products. The main issue that should concern a new owner is the actual general model type. Is it an Atlas-made 6" (original or Mark II), or its Atlas Sears/Acorn equivalent, or a totally different AA model? Is the spindle plain bearing (sandwiched by bolts on the split headstock) or roller bearing (no split in the headstock)? An example of the Craftsman 6" model with bronze bearings can be seen in an image (taken from a 1949 catalog) that is on my home page at the start of the section called Metal Lathe Files. It has bolts holding the top of the headstock. These bolts are not on the solid headstock, roller bearing, version. The only other unlikely worry would be if it were a metric version (fortunately these were relatively very rare). Then for the Atlas-made lathes, verify if the spindle thread is 1" x 8 tpi (threads per inch), which is standard for Craftsman-badged models, or 1" x 10 tpi, which is standard for Atlas-badged machines. Yes there are a large number of model sub-numbers that were newly assigned whenever there were any production changes. But once you identify the general model type you should be able to find parts and accessories to fit. And if you ever get a part that does not fit, there are a lot of folks out there who do need it, so you should be able to sell it easily. There is still considerable confusion among casual users about whether a particular 6 X 18 size lathe is, or is not, a true 618 model. One of the folks with an incredible collection of Atlas and Sears documentation and knowledge is Robert Downs of Houston, TX. See the conversation copied to this file in September 2015 titled: Re: Newbie in Kansas City Mo Pressure angle of 618's change gears: 14 1/2 degrees. Sometimes folks looking for replacement change gears consult catalogs from gear vendors and wonder which commercial general purpose gears might be useful on a 618. Besides pressure angle, we need to look at diameter and thickness and mounting hole and keyway size/shape. Some gears other than Atlas might work okay (perhaps after modification) but it is usually easier to find properly fitting new gears from Clausing. SPECIAL NOTE for those reading this text file from the Files section of the Yahoo Group atlas618lathe. (There is also a PDF version there that is easier to read with a menu, but may not be as current; it takes more time to edit and that file was created by a very busy group moderator.) BE ADVISED THAT GEMS IS JUST ONE OF MANY FILES RELATED TO ATLAS MACHINES AND METALWORKING that I have put together. To see the rest just set your browser's address to http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html The latter is a private site with no commercials and gathers no personal information. It is provided as a service to other home machinists. The files there are gathered from some conversations in several metalworking groups. It is not a FAQ. It is not an archive (as I gathered only conversations of interest to me from the groups I follow) and have heavily edited out redundant material. To get the full picture about a particular problem or process, you should also read more than any one file as related conversations may be recorded in other files when a conversation changed subject in midstream. For example, a question to a group about where to find an Atlas part may have included responses that told how to fix the part or even make a totally new one from scratch. The reverse could have happened when someone asks a repair question and gets some advice to buy the part. So the files "Atlas Parts General" and "Atlas Repair or Fitting" must both be read. Sometimes a message was completely about parts or repairs done on a 618, but the techniques were applicable to many other models; such messages were usually put only in the other generic Atlas file. Similarly a question about chucks could be here, or if more generic placed in the Atlas Chucks General, or Chucks General files. Anyone wanting to see a wider range of advice on chucks should read Atlas Backing Plates, Sherline Chucks, and Taig Chucks. The same conversation was almost never copied to more than one file due to space constraints on my website. There are already about 24 MB in the text files when a chosen item is included just once. Why text files? They are small simple files without the bloated additional code in a pdf or html file. No colours or fancy stuff, just information. You can also search the Yahoo archives of the atlas_craftsman and atlas618lathe groups to get a complete insight into their questions and answers over the years. Also remember that few metalworking subjects are unique to the 618; read what other lathe users have to offer. A subject such as milling on the lathe may have some 618 twists, but good advice is available from users of larger Atlases, and other brands, and from milling machine users. Keep an open mind when looking for information. In my on-line files, the "at" symbol in e-mail addresses has been replaced with x~xx to confound spy/spam robots. Just reverse the procedure to get the correct address to correspond with anyone privately off-group. LOOKING FOR ATLAS PARTS? New Atlas lathe, mill, and shaper parts are still available from Clausing. (ATLAS BOUGHT CLAUSING IN 1950, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND, and soon after adopted the more upscale Clausing name for the company.) Clausing personnel know a great deal about their old Atlas products and have the majority of spare parts still in stock. Some are original and some are more recently manufactured. And if not in stock (which is more likely in the case of some accessory products like collet closers), they can probably provide a copy of the specifications so you could make one. And in most cases, parts from Clausing are much cheaper than available elsewhere. It makes sense to support this company that so cares for its clients and ancient products -- it is a very rare company indeed. You need to get to know one of the good folks at Clausing Parts & Service Dept. For many years they were located in Goshen, IN. but recently returned to the original Atlas home area in Kalamazoo, MI. Phone: Parts or technical info for non-CNC machines (800)323-0972 FAX: (269)342-7888 E-mail: infox~xxclausingsc.com Website: http://www.clausing-industrial.com/partsService.asp Address: Clausing Service Center 1819 N. Pitcher Street, Kalamazoo, MI 49007-1886. (The shipping/receiving is at 2019 N. Pitcher St). And their good copies of manuals and current price lists are must-haves. While some other dealers carry Atlas parts, they get theirs from Clausing and usually mark them up a lot. Note: Atlas originally put several Atlas Technical Bulletins for the 6, 9, 10, and 12 inch lathes (along with the Atlas horizontal mill) online. That information was recently removed from their site. Here's an archive.org link to a copy of the main Atlas bulletin page: ://www.atlas-pre ss.com/servicebulletins.htm [NOTE TO FILE: If this link disappears too, some of us have copies of the bulletins and can email them. But we also may not be around forever. The loss of the original site is typical of many good websites that for any number of reasons disappear. So when you find good stuff on the web, make it a habit of bookmarking the less important stuff, but saving a copy of the really valuable (to you) stuff on your home computer. And remember to make a backup copy in a safe place not on your computer. External hard drives and/or USB memory sticks are great for this.] If the machine was also sold by Sears under their Craftsman name, you may be able to look up parts on-line at the Sears site: http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/index.action A quote from a discontinued Sears' site before the change to PartsDirect: >Most parts are sold as a quantity of one. In some instances a part description will include a quantity in parenthesis. The number inside of the parenthesis represents the total number of pieces to be ordered for that particular part. If verification is required for the number of parts to order, please call 1-800-252-1698 or email partsdirectx~xxcustomerservice.sears.com for further assistance.< Then there are other vendors that make new parts that may be modified or adapted to use on an Atlas. Or you can make parts like rests yourself. Used parts are often available from machinery dealers (see metalworking magazines' ads) or at on-line auctions. Particular caution must be used for internet transactions to be sure the part being sold is really the correct one for your machine. Often the vendor of a machine part knows little to nothing about what exactly he is selling. You will find more information about Atlas parts in my text files: Atlas Parts General Atlas Repair or Fitting found in the Metal Lathe Files at http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2016 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ************************************************************************** Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:07:55 -0700 From: "Dale March" Subject: Re: AA109 Spindle Shaft Needed From: "Dr. Robert Harms" Hi Robert: If you check the message postings #2494 there is an Earl Bower who can make you a new spindle for $75. If you need more help let me know... DALE MARCH ------- Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:27:33 EDT From: Area51tatsx~xxaol.com Subject: trav-a-dial I've been gone a few day, so getting into this thread a bit late. A TravADial is like a dial indicator that reads the full travel of the carriage. It is not digital. It can be used on a lathe or a mill. Every lathe (4) in my Dad's shop has one and the Bridgeport without DRO has one on both table travel directions. Extremely useful. They can be set to zero at any location. IMHO, with the bracket and TravADial mounted, it may be too much (big & bulky) for our mini- mills/lathes, but useful for larger machines. For photos of one, off and mounted on an Atlas 10", go to: http://www.easystreet.com/~krugerr/Machining/Atlas10/TravADial/ Rick K Portland, OR ------- Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:06:19 -0600 From: "Maxwell Sandford" Subject: Re: My New Lathe Gentlemen, regarding the use of carbide tooling in small lathes, I'll offer my experiences. > I found the same thing on my 6" Atlas/Craftsman. The cutting angles > used forcarbide tools put a higher load on the lathe and it > chatters more. Rex Trammell I found the same experience, that HSS worked far better, when I began working with my 6" 101.21400. After looking into the variables mentioned below, I found that carbide works as well or better than does HSS, although the latter is still my preference for materials that are softer than steel or cast iron. For either carbide or HSS, there is no substitute for a properly sharpened and positioned rigid tool. However, I find that carbide is much less sensitive overal to the cutting speed, working well over quite a large speed range. Perhaps its best advantage is durability and the increased in the little lathe's HP and torque that is delivered at the higher cutting speed. Carbide works well on my 6" only if I pay particular attention to locating the cutting edge exactly on center, whereas it is my impression that HSS is a bit more forgiving of position. The tool holder, cross-slide, and compound must be absolutely rigid, of course. Turn the work at higher speed than one would use for HSS, perhaps 200 fpm for mild steel, and be prepared to deflect very hot turnings. I turn steel dry, with good results using carbide tooling. Replacing the lantern-style toolpost with a quick change holder increases the rigidity and gives easy adjustment of the tool height. Of course the carbide tool must be in excellent shape as well. It's quite easy to chip or break the brittle cutting edge, and once this has been done there is no stopping the chatter and poor performance. The cheap C2 brazed import tools are resharpened easily with a SiC (green) wheel, but you must always be careful not to take too large a cut that increases the tendency to break the tool edge. With these considerations, carbide tooling has been working well for me. Carbide used for threading requires the same attention as HSS. Slow speed, much lubrication, and decreasing cuts that must be quite shallow even to start. Feeding 5 -10 mil on the compound to start and only 1-2 mil as the thread deepens gives me nice threads with carbide tooling. Lately, I have followed a suggestion made awhile back in this forum to use bacon grease for threading steel. I mixed mine with a little high-sulpur thread cutting oil and apply liberally with a small brush while the threading proceeds. This makes one BLT go quite a long way. Old-timers advocate "goose grease" and I'll prepare some of this as well, but not until Thanksgiving. M. T. Sandford ------- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:08:53 -0700 From: John Sandhagen Subject: RE: Tool Post Grinder for 6 inch Hi Guys, I made a grinder that fits on my toolpost for $30.00. This is probably not the same as a tool post grinder in terms of accuracy, but may work for your job requirements. I bought a right angle die grinder (harbor freight, about $20.00) and a repair clamp for steel pipe ($5.00). I removed the lever from the die grinder and made a cut out on the pipe clamp for the button that was left. I adapted the flange on the pipe clamp to fit my toolpost. I ended up needing a piece of 1/2" square stock between the flanges so the tool post would not bend the clamp out of shape when tightend. It seemed a little flimsy until attached to the tool post, but then very solid. Yes, it's loud, but mine weighs very little, is cheap, and not difficult to build. I had the idea before I had a use for it, so if anybody sees a problem let me know, my feeling won't be hurt. John Sandhagen ------- Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 06:33:16 -0000 From: "W.C. Gates" Subject: Re: stablizer fo back side of spindle [Long stock extending thru headstock -- preventing bending/destruction/severe injury!!!] We are discussing two different situations here. One situation is the need to "stabilize"---align and hold on the spindle axis--- a long but relatively stiff object, so that one end can be worked on in a headstock chuck, instead of out on the steady rest. The classic application is threading and chambering a rifle barrel. For this situation, some sort of "chuck" on the back end of the spindle is adequate. On many lathes (such as Atlas 6"), attaching such a device will require designing it to replace the spindle retaining/adjustment collar -- and you won't be able to close the gear cover while this gadget is attached. Hence my earlier suggestion for the two-diameter bushing. The other situation is when feeding long rods through the headstock in production operations. Here, the goal is to keep the rod from flopping around while allowing it to rotate freely. I suggest cobbling up some supports for a length of angleiron as long as the stock projects out, then strap a piece of PVC pipe into the angle as the guide and restraint for the rod. The PVC pipe should be 2-3 times the diameter of the stock. Be sure you lube the PVC (oil or coolant). ------- Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:54:06 -0000 From: "William Clemens" Subject: 6" QC Hello, those of you interested in the Quick change gearbox for the 6" machine - building this thing is a great undertaking if you plan to cut all the gears and make the box. I used a single point cutter to cut my gears and had the feeling that while cutting them, the world was passing me by, it took many many hours. You will need an index head to accurately set the divisions unless you can fab an indexing device for the lathe( not recommended). When I drilled and tapped the lathe bed to bolt the box on for some reason I broke the tap, had to have it EDM'ed out$$$$!(plus I had to completely disassemble the lathe). What I'm relating to you is that building this little gearbox is a trial of your talents, ingenuity, resources, marriage, patience etc, etc. plus it is a pain in the a$$. The gears can be purchased and modified from Boston or Berg or someone like that. Mine is not as elaborate as the one in Modeltec Mag but it has never failed me in about 20 years. I'll still send these drawings though! Bill C. ------- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:54:05 -0500 From: "ebower" Subject: Re: Quick Change for the 618 lathe Original Message ----- From: "J. Reid" To: >Well, I received the Modeltec mag's with the articles on constructing the >thing, and wonder if others are or have done the same???? >The main problem seems to be in cutting the gears-or if this is necessary. >The author says that the gears in the train between the spindle and the >gear box can be original Atlas die cast gears. >The question then is what about the gears in the gear box? He doesn't make >such a definite statement regarding them, just goes ahead with advice on >cutting them with your a milling machine and dividing head-which I don't >have (yet, anyway). So does anyone know-can Atlas or other commercial >gears be used? Jack Reid Issaquah WA Jack, I looked into that gearbox, for my 6" Atlas, and the gears in the gearbox must be cut. I also have the plan that was sold in 1976, By Caldwell Industries, and it is almost identical. You do use the gears on the side train but you have to cut the box gears as the thicknesses used are not standard size. Did not make the quick change for my 6". Earl ------- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:47:13 -0000 From: "William Clemens" Subject: Re: Quick Change for the 618 lathe Jack, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CUT THE GEARS YOURSELF! The gears can be purchased from Boston Gear, Browning, WM Berg , etc, etc. They are 24 Diametral Pitch as are the rest of the gears on the 618. They will need to be modified (faced to .250 and a couple of other things) but a lathe can take care of that! The only problem that you may encounter is cutting the keyways and broaching the gears. Let me know when you get to that point, I'll gladly help you. Bill C. Tom, you can use any combination of gears to feed the gearbox as long as they are not tandemed. If they are tandemed or duplexed they must be identical or you will change the ratio, otherwise all the gears in the chain are idlers and do not change the ratio from the starting gear to the ending gear. The tumbler gears are idlers - their number of teeth makes no difference. Bill C. ------- [Note: following was started as a suggestion for cleaning a lathe (618), that the carriage had to come off once in a blue moon to get rid of metal chips and do a proper job (giving much smoother operation) and that the leadscrew had to be removed in order to do so. Removing the carriage also allows a check to see if there is an obvious problem causing excessive play in the carriage movement gears/parts.] Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 00:12:50 -0000 From: "Tim Clarke" Subject: Removing the leadscrew Charles: The leadscrew floats in the feed assy. All the endplay is controlled by the bearing at the tail stock end. Remove the support and draw the screw to your right, pulling it thru the carriage assy. There is a drive key built into the gear, and in the bevel gear in the apron. I don't know what is in the archives, but it seems there is a exploded view in the atlas website. Contact atlas for a parts list, pricing and I think you can still get a book of operation from them. My lathes have alot of play in the handwheel, mostly due to backlash in the gears that transfer the motion from wheel to carriage, I'd like to see a new one, I suspect they weren't real tight when new. Anyone on this site who bought one new may be able to tell us. Regards, Tim ------- Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 16:36:30 -0800 From: charles shearon Subject: Re: Removing the leadscrew Tim, just removed leadscrew, was easy. Bore for hand wheel shouldered bolt is worn as well as the bolt itself, assuming it started out as 1/2" shoulder. Found an oil impregnated sintered bearing the correct length and 5/8" O.D. and 1/2" I.D. What do you think about drilling an oil hole in bearing, boring the skirt, pressing in bearing and using new bolt? The gears in pot metal carrier do not appear to be badly worn. If I still have excess play, that assembly will get replaced. Appreciate the good feedback. Thanks. Charles ------- Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 01:17:12 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Re: slack in carriage handwheel drive train [NOTE TO FILE: info for a 618 or bigger.] cshearonx~xxtcsn.net wrote: > Is there any "trick" to removing leadscrew? Outboard end looks > straight forward, am wondering about "left hand" end. > Are there exploded pictures of the Atlas 10 in this sites archives? If the right end of your lathe is unobstructed, remove the two bolts from the right end bracket, and just pull straight out. Watch out for a shaft key, as some models have a separate key to drive the shaft. If you don't have several feet to extract the screw, you can remove the bracket, and pull the leadscrew just enough to disengage it from the QC or reversing box. Then remove the two big Phillips-head screws on the top of the saddle, and drop the entire apron. You can then move the entire assembly such that the screw can be slid out of the collar that picks up rotary motion for the power cross-feed and the half-nuts. Jon ------- Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 16:25:25 -0000 From: "Tim Clarke" Subject: Handwheel Bushing Charles, glad to hear that you got your leadscrew and apron off, no problem. If you want your handwheel hole repaired you might consider boring for a bushing as you explained. You need to be real sure that you can bore out the hole straight and the same center distance as it was before. Any change in location will alter the backlash and cause trouble, as will getting the hole crooked. It may be tough to center up in a egg shaped hole. I assume the hole is worn mostly at an angle, because of the downforce from the gears trying to move apart. I guess what I'm trying to say is, a 5/8 bit handheld in your makita drill isn't likely to make your problem any better unless you're very lucky. I'd probably set it up on my mill-drill and bore the hole with a boring head which will make the hole round and straight and finish to size with a reamer. Tim ------- Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:46:41 -0400 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: Re: slack in carriage handwheel drive train >cshearonx~xxtcsn.net wrote: > > The handwheel "crank" travels almost an inch before carriage moves! >This is a common problem and I would like to second the >comments that Jon Elson made. >Make sure the die cast part that holds the gears in place is >tight to the front apron and it is not broken. 95% of the >problem should go away. Every owner of an Atlas lathe should >take time and remove and clean the apron of chips and dirt. >Besides having a clean machine he will know what is going on >down there when things are being operated. The Atlas lathe is >a simple machine and you should not be afraid to work on it. >Get out the manual and do it! Wally Skyrman Central Point, OR If the bracket is broken, it may be possible to repair it with epoxy and a thick strip of metal. I did this with my original lathe. Ron Thibault North Augusta, SC USA Builder Miinie #2 Captain R/C Combat Ship USS Arizona http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/ ------- Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:55:07 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: New Big-Bore headstock, was Re: Lathe Bed > I have a 6" Craftsman > which has no separate power feed screw. Does any of the larger Atlas > machines have a separate power feed leadscrew? The normal 12 inch Atlas as sold by Sears under the Craftsman name does not have any separate power feed for the carrage. Some lathes have a feed that does not depend on the lead screw to drive the carrage, but some kind of rod arrangement which gives automatic fine feeds, but avoids the wear on the lead screw which is reserved for thread cutting. I have had two six inch Atlas lathes in my time and on both I added a very simple automatic cross feed which the original "six" lacked. I secured a flanged wheel to the left hand end of the lead screw (drilled and tapped the end) and replaced the handle on the cross slide with a similar wheel. Put a clothes line pulley on the edge of the bench and a good strong string from the lead screw wheel to the pulley thence to the wheel on the cross slide. As the lead screw revolved it wound the string up from the cross slide wheel and imparted a steady motion to the cross slide when facing. Simple, crude and workable. (Of course you have to remember to lock the carrage, or you get funny shapes as the string both turns the cross slide wheel and pulls the carrage along the bed.) John Meacham High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock. ------- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:06:34 -0000 From: ballendox~xxyahoo.com Subject: taps was Re: Taig thread sizes [HOW TO MAKE A TAPER ATTACHMENT SIMPLY] Joules, Ya don't need much more than a way to hold the bolt (er,pattern) in line with the crosslide (i.e., a support off the lathe bed) Now that you've got a pattern, you need a tracer. This is a piece of feeler gauge or shim stock fastened vertically (so it's a thin tracing point) to the side of the crosslide. Take out the crosslide screw, replace it with hand pressure, while turning the longitudinal feed... viola, a "tracer" attachment! Hope this helps. Ballendo ------- Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:33:14 -0600 From: "Maxwell Sandford" Subject: Re: Craftsman 6 in. Re-assembly Problems > Leo (has any one turned a 6" work piece? ON A 6 INCH LATHE!) Yes, I have turned a 6.2" diam. Oak block ~3" thick. I glued the block up from crossed-grain oak boards and cut the block to size approximately with a table saw, mounted it on the faceplace with wood screws, and filed off the high spots with a farrier's rough rasp. Just enough to permit the block to turn and clear the ways, around the maximum 6.25" the lathe can handle. I mounted the tool in a Harbor Freight tool quickchange holder--I pushed the tool longitudinally with manual feed on the carriage. The compound was rotated and racked all the way out. No problem at all, but indeed a tight fit. Then I faced off the block's front side. After turning, I bored the center sufficiently to accept a pressed-in cup bearing insert. I removed the block from the faceplate, grabbed it with the 3-jaw inside the bore I cut for the bearing insert, and then faced and bored the back side. I pressed in bearing cups on both sides and made a shaft and mounting plate to hold equipment. The turned block was then sawed and drilled to create ears for tripod legs. Voila, a 6" tripod head from a 6" lathe. ------- Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 07:35:53 -0500 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: Metric threads setup for 10" Atlas lathe w/96 tooth change gears At 09:35 PM 5/2/01 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Jim >I am perplexed with the 96 teeth gear you are mentioning. In all the literature I have around I have not found any gear with so many teeth for the Atlas. By the way that would be nice to have giving just a demultiplication of 1:1.5 which would have a nice effect on the smallest feed of the leadscrew when finishing parts. If you try to overcome this demultiplication by i.e having a 32 teeth intermediate wheel instead of a 48 teeth one, you should be able to use the settings given in the table(S). It is just a ratio problem. Jean-Claude < The 96 tooth gears came with the early 30s (and older) lathes (Craftsman at least). The difference is due to the tumbler assembly having just a plain 32 tooth gear, not the 16/32 combination of the later lathes. To use the metric chart, find the setup for a thread twice the pitch, and use it. You can get a 16/32 gear and install it so you can use the charts as printed. The 96 tooth then gives you a superb fine feed capability. By the way I have a variant of the chart on your lathe that makes more use of the 64 tooth gears, to save wear on the no longer available 96 tooth ones. It's in the Atlas section of my Web site (address below). Ron Thibault North Augusta, SC USA http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/ ------- Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:28:59 -0500 (CDT) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: New Member If the 10" is like the 6", the "plunger pin" in the large gear immediately behind the right bearing next to the chuck, is to change from direct drive to back-gear drive. If the pin is "in", the lathe is in direct drive from the belt pulley. If the pin is in the "out" position, there is no connection to between the two. With the pin in the "out" position, pull the lever on the right side of the the gears behind the spindle toward you. This will engage the gears on the spindle and the back-gears. rotate the belt pulleys or the chuck to mesh the gears. Atlas recommends that you engage the back-gears, while leaving the drive-pin engaged to remove the chuck. Putting the chuck key in the chuck and pulling it toward you works every time for me on the 6" model, but I have seen some negative comments on this web-site on this subject. Hope this helps. Leo BTW: On my 6", there is a "set" screw in the pulley cone on spindle. This is NOT to be tightened! Remove it in order to oil the pulley cone bearings when using the back-gears. Replace it so it is just flush with the surface of the pulley cone. There is a screw in the middle of the back-gear assembly that is removed to lubricate the back-gear bearings. ------- From: dba556... Date: Fri Jul 20, 2001 1:28 pm Subject: spindle bushing question on 6" I'd like to replace the spindle bushings on my atlas 6" lathe. The old bushings had oil holes that line up with the oil cup, but the bushings I ordered from Clausing have no holes. I assume these holes are needed to ensure proper lubrication. If so, how can I drill these without distorting the bushing ? Thanks, Dean Anderson ------- From: dswr... Date: Fri Jul 20, 2001 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] spindle bushing question on 6" DO NOT DRILL ANY HOLES!!! (excuse my shouting, but i wanted to be heard over the electric drill) 8-) The bushings should be made of sintered bronze. This is a porous type of metal that will allow oil to migrate to the spindle journals, so they will be lubricated. A plus is that the lubricant will be filtered, trapping possible abrasive particles. These holes may have been drilled because the bushings were home made of brass or none porous bronze. Leo (lots of fun taking the spindle out) :-( ------- From: dswr... Date: Fri Jul 20, 2001 3:13 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: spindle bushing question on 6" Dean, call Clausing to be sure they are porous bronze. (would not want to be proved wrong with a bunged-up spindle on your lathe) 8-( I had a bit of trouble inserting the woodruff key when I replaced the belt on my machine. I suggest you check and make sure your belt is in tip-top shape before you replace the spindle and backgear! Leo (my belt was only 45 years old, they don't make things like they did in the good ol' days) 8-) ------- From: "Bob May" Date: Fri Jul 20, 2001 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] spindle bushing question on 6" If you need to drill holes, put the bushing in first and then drill and clean the inside of the hole carefully. Don't forget that drilling a much smaller hole and enlarging it will minimize the distortion of the hole and you may want to ream to size to further minimize the distortion. If the new bushing is a sintered bronze one, I wouldn't drill through but rather make a reservoir for the oil with a bit of milling on the outside of the bearing about 1/3 of the way through the bearing and make sure that the hole fills the reservoir. A sintered bearing doesn't benefit from a full hole to the bearing surface. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay ------- From: David Beierl Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 11:37 pm Subject: 618 threading dial query How are the threading dial and gear attached to the shaft on the six-inch Atlas? I'm afraid to either twist them or try to drive them... thanks David Beierl - Providence, RI USA 6" Atlas lathe ca. 1941 ------- From: "Randy" Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 11:38 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] 618 threading dial query David: I looked in my parts break down and it looks like they are just pressed on. It just shows 3 different numbers for the gear, shaft, and dial but no key or anything else. Randy Pedersen ------- From: rweersing... Date: Tue Aug 7, 2001 3:25 am Subject: Re: 618 threading dial query David, they are just pressed on. put the threading dial loosely in a vice gear side up and I used a 5/32 punch to punch the shaft off of the gear. lots of luck bob ------- From: Rufus REDD Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 3:13 pm Subject: half-nut I have an Atlas/Craftsman 6" engine lathe that is in need of a half-nut badly...Any and ALL help will be appreciated....Thanks ahead of tyme... Capt_REDD ------- From: Bill Aycock Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 8:52 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] half-nut I just ordered one, and the set cost just over $15 plus shipping. The Clausing number for the 618 parts (service dept) is 219-533-0371. Good luck Bill ------- From: R10440P... Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 10:04 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] half-nut Hello Capt_REDD. I also was in need of new half nuts and ordered them from Clausing. The only thing that you need to do is to be sure and order the new casting that holds the new halfnuts because the new ones are wider than the old ones and they will not fit into your old casting. Have fun Rick ------- From: Bill Aycock Date: Sat Aug 4, 2001 7:28 pm Subject: Half-nuts Half nuts have been the subject of a few posts, here, lately. I just bought a pair for my Atlas 618. What I found, when I started to replace them was interesting. I bought the new ones because there was more play in the feed than I wanted. When I took the machine screws out to take the old ones out, I found that much of the play was because the nuts could not close properly, because of chips and hard grease in the assembly. When I had all this cleaned up, the nuts looked pretty good, so, to check, I put it all back together. It turns out that the majority of the play is in the rectangular back to the half nuts, not in the part that clasps the shaft. I intend to take the assembly apart again, measure both the old and new nuts, and the plate they ride in. There has been wear somewhere, and I want to find where. The improvement from just a good cleaning was a lot, so I recommend it to all. Bill Aycock Persimmon Hill, Woodville, Alabama, US 35776 ------- Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 06:25:43 -0500 From: "Charles Brumbelow" Subject: Re: QC gearbox plans for 6" Atlas lathe Gabe - I suspect they can be found in back issues of "Home Shop Machinist" and/or "Projects in Metal" -- both Village Press bi-monthly publications. However, I haven't a clue as to which issues. I found them in books 1 and 3 of: METALWORKING BOOK 1 166406 $31.68 $36.00 MS METALWORKING VLGPR Yes METALWORKING BOOK 2 166407 $31.68 $36.00 MS METALWORKING VLGPR Yes METALWORKING BOOK 3 166408 $31.68 $36.00 MS METALWORKING VLGPR Yes listing from http://www.caboosehobbies.com/ which is having additional discounts in its fall sale thru 10/21 2003. They are also available from Village Press' web site. The one in book 3 is an admitted revision of the design in book 1. It includes chain drive from the spindle and homecut spur gears. The book 1 version is all spur gears purchased commercially. I am merely a satisfied customer of the vendors listed . . . Charles ------- Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:55:45 -0500 From: "Fred & Liz Lusen" Subject: Re: quick change gear box for &Atlas 6" Tommy, There have been three articles published on a quick change GB for the 6". The first was by Eugene Toscano in the August and October issues of Projects in Metal. That article was also reprinted in the hard copy Metal Working, Book 1. The second article was by Glenn A. Pettit in the December issue of Projects in Metal. These articles are both for the Atlas 10100 which is the last model of the 6" that atlas made http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page13.html An 6 part article for the earlier atlas lathes by George Yadon appeared in Modeltec magazine starting with the July 91 issue and ran until Dec or that year. I believe you can still get back issues of that magazine. For a price of course. The author says that this box is applicable to Atlas and Craftsman lathes. The original was designed for and installed on an Atlas Model 618. Hope this helps. Fred Lusen ------- Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:37:00 -0500 From: Charles Brumbelow Subject: Re: Atlas 618 quick change gear box The author of this booklet (Yadon), which I understand was published in the early 1980's, had a similar (identical?) QC box in a six issue series in Modeltec. The series is still available from them for $21 plus $4 shipping as I recall. I bought the series recently, when I discovered it via a Google web search, after I was not the high bidder on another copy of this booklet sold by the same vendor (item 1718078633). I had thought the booklet might be unique, but it wasn't. Unlike the two QC boxes described in Village Press publications (which are in volumes 1 and 3 of "Metalworking"), this one is specifically for the old style body (the curvy one) although differences are pointed out. It looks doable, but calls for one to cut a bunch of steel gears as presented. FWIW, I've thrown in a bid on the booklet but don't expect to chase it. More curiosity than anything. Charles ------- Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 14:12:17 EDT From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Should I keep 618 or Atlas Mk2 dkosciusko2x~xxyahoo.com writes: > -- no power cross feed I can't find the photos now, but I added a makeshift power cross feed to my old six inch Atlas. I turned up a drum in place of the handle on the cross feed, put a hole in the drum to take the old handle. Turned a similar drum that I mounted on the right end of the feed screw by drilling and tapping the end of the feed screw. Ran a good stout cord from the drum on the lead screw to a pulley on my bench, from pulley to drum on cross feed. Not a really sanitary solution, but it sure worked to face the face plate, and other facing jobs. Never tried it when using a cut off tool, was afraid the stretch in the cord would give "jumpy" feed which can be a disaster when cutting off. John Meacham High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock. ------- Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:50:46 EDT From: sleykinx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Should I keep 618 or Atlas Mk2 In a message dated 10/21/01, cbrumbelowx~xxhome.com writes: > Has anyone kept the 618 and the countershaft > and used a variable speed DC motor? Charles I had one on my 618 and loved it. The countershaft let me slow it down enough to thread without back gears which was a large part of the reason for doing it as mine had munged back gears. ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:17:31 -0000 From: "Horace Steven" Subject: Re: Atlas 6" Attachments [T-SLOT CROSS SLIDE] > Is there a kit and/or how-to for making a T-slotted > cross slide for the Atlas 6" lathe? I know someone offers > a casting for the 12" lathe . . . Thanks, Charles Charles, I just sold one of the 10/12" kits for the crosslide, it would be an easy project to make one for your 6". Copy the design in steel or alum, scale it down and use 1/4" T-nuts. I have a copy of the drawing scanned into a file, email me if you want a copy. Here is the MLA site with the crosslide kit shown. ------- Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:40:10 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Re: Cross feed There is an article on adding cross feed to an Atlas 6" in the Oct-Nov 1999 (I think) issue of Machinists Workshop. You can check with the on-line Village press reference, if it is up by now. This is run from the lead screw, via a gear and chain setup, and ought to work OK, even if it looks a bit clumsy. Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:17:56 -0000 From: "breaktimber" Subject: Re: Atals lathe model 618 Belts and pulleys 5/9/2002, breaktimber wrote: > >Hi Roy, > >Well I ambled out to my shop and put a caliper to the drive > >pullies on my 618 Atlas. The 2 step motor pully measures In atlas_craftsmanx~xxy..., David Beierl wrote: >Any chance you could amble out again and take some more measurements of the relationship between the lathe and countershaft assembly (height and distance), belt dimensions (cross-section), and how much minimum clearance you have (and in what belt position) between the belt/headstock cover and belt/countershaft casting? Also, does your belt drag and turn the spindle when it's disengaged in low-speed positions? Asking a lot, I know, but I would dearly love to use a link belt for the headstock, and I haven't found a way to do it without rubbing. David Beierl Providence, RI USA 6 (or 3)" Atlas Model 618 lathe ca. 1941 < OK David, I did a look see for you and came up with the following. First, I misquoted on the belt cross section the first time. It is 3/8" wide and roughly the same in depth. The counter shaft distance when tight is eleven inches center to center, counter shaft to center of head stock spindle. The height of the counter shaft spindle from center in the tightened position is seven and 3/4" to the bench top as is the center of the headstock spindle. With the belt on the big end of the head stock pully and small end of the four groove countershaft pully the clearance to the underside of the head stock cover and the belt is 5/8" and likewise at the countershaft casting. When the belt is on the small end of the headstock pully and the big end of the countershaft pully, the clearance between the headstock cover and belt is 1/4" and at the countershaft 1/2". Some lathe owners mount the motor between the lathe and countershaft motor in line with countershaft assembly. In my own case the motor is mounted to the left of the counter shaft between the lathe and motor. The motor is raised on a pad to allow it to be raised by 3/4" for better geometry. I use a barrel style reversing switch to control the motor that is mounted on a short vertical length of conduit in order to make it easy to reach. I have spent the last six weeks setting this lathe up and have had a merry time of it. The folks at Clausing have been a great help. Debbie has been my contact there. Lemme know how things work out for you. Hope this solves your problems. Cheers, Jay ------- Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 15:49:23 -0400 From: David Beierl Subject: Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Comments Wanted I grew up with this lathe, but IANAM (I Am Not A Machinist). At 02:36 PM 5/11/2002, WV_BILL wrote: >I'm looking for comments from people with experience or are familiar with >the Atlas Model 618 lathe. Just wondering about the quality of the lathe, Quality IMHO is excellent. Castings are nice, things work right. The carriage feed has an idler gear so that the handle turns in the right direction. It has tumbler reverse. It is a lightweight i.e. fairly flexible lathe, but a real one, much more substantial than the 6" AA/Dunlop/Sears 109 lathes. It's light enough for a man to carry without taking off the headstock. The compound slide IMHO is more flexible than it needs to be. Gears, handles etc. are made of a zinc alloy called Zamak -- some people claim this a disadvantage, others don't. I have seen some spirited defense of the strength and utility of zinc-alloy castings by some folks who work with them today. However broken Zamak pieces are difficult/impossible to repair. My lathe (my grandfather's) was made around 1940 and the gears are generally in fine shape. There are sixteen speeds including backgear -- the highest speed in each range of four overlaps the lowest in the next range. The lowest speed is 54 rpm, much lower than most (all?) modern small lathes and very nice for threading. The lantern-style toolpost is too flexible -- things are considerably improved by a block-type toolpost. The cross-slide advances 0.100 per revolution, the compound 0.050. Marks are in .001 of advance but the dials are quite small and cannot be re-zeroed during operations. The dials themselves form part of the thrust bearing for retracting the slides. Power feed is by change gears and the half-nuts -- you have to regear to go between threading and feeding. TClausing has some (very expensive) "Gearsettes" or something similar -- premounted change gears that are mounted more easily than individual gears and allow you to do a range of threads or feeds by changing only the screw gear. No additional function except for being already made up in chunks with a nice label showing the range of feeds or threads possible with the set. The standard harp has two slots. There is a (rare and not available) three-slot harp that allows some combinations not possible otherwise, but they're exotic ones. Such a harp could be fabricated if needed. It's quite likely that the backgear bearings and the headstock pulley bearings have not been lubricated as they should be -- it's somewhat inconvenient as you have to unscrew a tiny grub-screw in the headstock pulley and drip oil into the little hole -- daily. Also the headstock pulley bearings (bronze sleeves) apparently have a tendency to migrate toward the center over long periods of time. Many parts (except major castings) are still available from Clausing and from Sears. Neither is cheap. Sears may possibly have a few parts left that Clausing has run out of, but in general they seem to get the stuff from Clausing and tack on about 40% to Clausing's retail price. Spare change gears seem to be arbitrarily priced based on how many they have left -- or else they threw darts. Fixed and traveling steadyrests are available from Clausing. They use brass pins instead of the earlier flat bronze fingers. People claim this as a disadvantage but I think the current ones are perfectly good. The fixed steady does *not* fold open, old or new. The wood-turning rests from Clausing are a poor substitute for the original ones. They simply mount to the compound slide, and the slide mechanism makes it almost impossible to get a chisel where you want it. I welded a tolerable base from strap steel and square tubing that clamps to the bed like the original ones. It's still a very small lathe for wood turning but it turns up to 3000 rpm. The US specification for the Acme thread changed -- early fifties maybe? If you have an earlier lathe (don't know the cutoff date) and need a new cross-slide nut, you will have to also get the cross-slide screw because the old screw won't fit into the new nut. Also Atlas changed (beefed up) the design of the half-nut assembly slightly at some point. New half-nuts may require a new actuating assembly to fit. > quality of parts (turnings) made with it, I'll leave that for others more skillful than I to say. In general I'd say that it delivers the goods but requires sympathetic and skilled handling -- including setup -- for best results. It also depends heavily on having a good stiff bench -- Atlas recommends minimum 1 3/4" thick edge-glued hardwood for a wooden bench. I've never worked with a big stiff lathe. >and ease of >cutting threads - etc. Easy, except of course that you have to set up the change gears manually. The Atlas _Manual of Lathe Operations_ available from Clausing is far superior to the South Bend or Sheldon equivalents, and has a thorough and lathe-specific treatment of threading. The lathe was sold with a four-page "Instructions and parts list" -- and the sixty-page threading chapter from the _Manual_. The official Atlas threading method (for 60-degree threads) is to offset the compound slide by 29 degrees (29.5?) and do all advance with the compound, and the tables are based on that method. Lowest backgear speed is 54 rpm, very convenient. Early lathes had a 16-tooth gear on the threading dial, later ones a 32-tooth (leadscrew is 8 tpi). There are some uncommon thread combinations (certain double-thread pitches maybe? I forget) where the 16-tooth gear will be right only half the time i.e. every other revolution. Gear presently available from Clausing is 32-tooth. > Also what is the taper of the head and tail stocks? Morse #2 and #1. The spindle will pass slightly over half-inch stock. Spindle thread is 1x10 -- Some Craftsmans were built with 1x8 and possibly there are a few 618s out there with 1x8. David Beierl - Providence, RI USA ------- Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 15:15:00 -0000 From: "jvb442001" Subject: 6" accessory This weekend I made a useful accessory for my 6" Craftsman lathe. I took a 8" 3/4" bolt, cut the head off, mounted it in the 3 jaw and supported it with the tailstock. I turned a MT2 taper and shouldered the extension down to 3/8" and turned a 60 degree point. The point extends slightly beyond the face of my 4 jaw chuck. This allows me to mount irregular shapes between centers and use the 4 jaw as a dog. John ------- Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:29:13 -0500 From: Charles Brumbelow Subject: Re: 618 Chuck repair From: "David Beierl" >At 03:31 PM 5/22/2002, breaktimber wrote: >Atlas four inch three jaw chuck that fits a one inch eight spindle. >Just a side note -- I'm pretty sure that most of the actual 618s had 1x10 >spindles...might want to check. I think 1x8 was mostly on the Craftsman >lathes, to let them use Craftsman woodworking gear that was fitted for1x8. Well, well, well . . . I just got surprised. I thought the early Atlas 6x18 units were 1x8 spindles, but my 1941 catalog says 1x10. The timeline on the web site says the 6x12 and 6x18 were introduced in 1936, so it couldn't have been very long -- if at all -- that the Atlas had the 1x8 thread. My Craftsman 6x18 (yes, the Atlas-made lathe, not the AA) circa 1963 has the 1x10 spindle. So . . . the wood lathe hypothesis may be correct. I've seen 4-jaw Craftsman 1x8 chucks named as being for wood lathes on eBay recently. On the other hand, I've got a spindle, supposedly from an Atlas, with the 1x8 thread . . . Charles ------- Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 17:52:35 -0000 From: "breaktimber" Subject: Chuck key substitute My recently acquired six inch Atlas Lathe came minus the chuck key. Bummer! But, I found that the 1/4 inch square drive bit that fits my Milwaukee electric screwdriver is better that the origional T handle wrench for most applications. I no longer have to twirl and twiddle with the chuck as I do with my other lathe that uses a different size key. Chucking pressure can be set with the clutch or just felt as the last turn is done by hand. Really handy!! Cheers, Jay Greer ------- Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 17:22:30 -0000 From: "d_c71_2001" Subject: Re: Chip pan [POSTED IN ATLAS GROUP] In atlas_craftsmanx~xxy..., "breaktimber" wrote: > Do any of you have any suggestions on obtaining or making a > chip pan to fit under an Atlas 618? Regards, Jay Greer Jay: Many people have used drip pans available from Autoparts Stores. If your lathe is on a bench, that would likely work out fine. If it's just for chips and a little oil, that should be fine. My Atlas 618 came with its original legs/stand and was mounted to (original) 2-inch thick hardwood plank. About two months back, I fabricated a Chip/Coolant catch pan from 1/8- inch steel sheet using my MIG welder. I cut a base the same size as the 2-inch plank, then cut sides, back, front to act as splash guards. I angled front and back and made cut- outs to allow for lead-screw gear door cover swing-out/opening. Created a sump to allow lubricant/coolant to drain back into SS Tank on the shelf under the lathe from a section of steel channel and welded a pipe nipple to the underside to attatch a return line. Will post a photo in the "Photos" section. It actually turned out really well. The angled front deflector does not interfere with the operation of crank handles. Let me know if you need any other details/info if interested. Good luck with yours. Derek C. ------- Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 18:49:40 -0400 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: Re: Chip pan >Derek, >This is what I have been thinking of as I may want to use a coolant pump >in the future. Yes, any more details you might be able to offer would be >appreciated. How did you seal around the mounting bolts? >I look forward to hearing more. Thanks, Jay Jay: Check out the Atlas section on my web site (address below), I made my chip pan from automotive drip pans also. Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USA http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/ ------- Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 19:12:09 -0000 From: "d_c71_2001" Subject: Re: Chip pan - Details Jay: Forgot to mention, I welded a 3/4-inch hose nipple to the bottom of the Channel/Sump. Cut the hole in it first, then welded the threaded end of the hose nipple leaving the barbed end exposed for the 3/4-inch clear vinyl tubing return line. Bought the Hose Nipple and Sealing washers at a local hardware store. Bought the 1/8-inch Flat Steel Strip from a local steel supply company. Just looked through their scrap ends section and found plenty of raw stock, cheap. Cut to length with a hack-saw in a vice. Cleaned up with a disk-grinder. Drilled the (4) mounting holes in the base plate (around 8"x30") Tacked, then welded the front/back splash pieces, then the tailstock end. Drilled hole in the 1x2x8 channel to act as drain. Cut small end pieces for the channel and welded them in place to seal them off. Welded the channel to the bottom end of the pan. It hangs below the rest of the pan off the headstock end, so the gear door can swing out unobstructed, yet the coolant is contained. Derek C. ------- Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 01:36:27 -0000 From: "d_c71_2001" Subject: Re: Chip pan - Details Jay: Did you check out the Photos I posted in the "Photo" section? I posted two. Both have "Chip Pan" in the description. I used Sealing-Washers (cupped SS washers with Rubber washer attached) and some silicone sealer for insurance under the lathe mounting bolts. The coolant return line is some 3/4-inch flexible Clear Vinyl tubing. I cut a hole in a piece of channel that I mounted at the headstock end of the pan. The channel (1"x 2"x 8") acts as a sump and allowed the end to be low enough for lead-screw gear door opening. The back splash is 4-inches high and angled out at around 60-degrees, but knotched at the headstock end for belt clearance/gear door opening. The front splash guard is 3-inches high and angled out at around 45- degrees easily clearing the carriage hangles, etc. E-Mail me if you need any more info. I basically fabricated it by hand with the plan in my head. Had to think through a solution to allow the gear door to open (without leaking coolant) and carriage handle clearance, but basically hand fitted it together. Painted it and it came out really nice. Looks good and very functional. Bought a commercial-type SS 1-gallon pneumatic coolant sprayer years back. It has a small door on top that the coolant return line passes through. Derek C. ------- Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:47:03 -0600 From: "Microsoft mail Server" Subject: Re: [ALTERNATIVE TAILSTOCK FOR 6"] The small MT#1 tailstock has always been a weak spot on all models of Atlas 6 inch lathes. There is more ready to go MT#2 tooling available than MT#1 tooling. You would be better off getting some continuous cast iron square bar stock (gray iron) and making a more substantial tailstock in one piece. This thing shown is really jury rigged. Contact www.aia-versabar.com and www.durabar.com They offer cutting services for large size stock (up to 14" x 21" square and rectangle bar). Cut off a piece and save foundry expense. They also sell plate stock. You can get 4.25"x 4.25" square stock cut by the inch or foot from www.metalmart.com. This is VersaBar stock. This would do for a tailstock upgrade for a 6" lathe. You can purchase dimensioned tailstock drawings from Clausing Service Center for $10. Well worth having! A proper MT#2 finish taper reamer and roughing reamer run about $37 each. Finish reamers are readily available from most catalog suppliers. Rougher reamers are special order from catalog suppliers like www.travers.com and others. Hope this helps. James Sprott ------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:38:48 -0000 From: "elperkins2003" Subject: Re: Craftsman 6" manual/printed materials Rodent; If the link you list accurately depicts the lathe you have, you do not have a lathe produced in 1980. The late Atlas 6" lathes had undergone a complete redesign and restyling. The countershaft and motor mount was made integral with the unit and not separate. What you do have though is a classic 6" Atlas backgeared screw cutting lathe, as they were made in the 50s & 60s. A great little machine. You couldn't find a better machine to learn on. Cruise around the files and photos in this news group and glean what information you can. Then get a copy of the Atlas Lathe Manual directly from Clausing, or on ebay. The Clausing website will also have exploded parts diagrams and some other information on these machines, in addition to replacement parts and some accessories. When you get the manual you will have an enormous amount of information and a great reference to have around. Have fun getting aquainted with your new toy, and take good care of it for the next guy! Perk in Cincinnati ------- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:50:23 -0700 From: "Earl Helm" Subject: RE: Thanks for help on 101.07301 and new question John, 4MTool makes a very nice 4 way tool holder for 3/8 tools for the 6" atlas. They also make a nice boring holder. They are good and cheap I think about 36.00 each. Their email is 4mtoolx~xxdialmaine.com and the guys name it George. He is a great resource for 6" atlas's. Earl Helm ------- NOTE TO FILE: There are many more conversations in the file Toolholders For Lathe that will be of assistance. ------- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:21:02 -0000 From: "mac0859" Subject: Re: QC tool post [ONE OF SEVERAL Q THIS SUBJECT] Hello , Thanks for the reply . Did you have to make your own T-Nut for that holder ? I had contacted them about this one tool post some time ago, ordered one and never got it. I had talked to the guy at the phone number and I got the feeling he was either to busy to come up with a set for an Atlas or maybe going out of buisness. He finally sent me to another site that may have some in stock -- they said they did but I would have to make the T-Nut for it and they had no holder for a cut off tool. It sure looks like what I would want but thought I would post here about it to see if anyone out there was using another that may be a little more availible and the same still -- just something about this deal feels funny -- hard to explain I guess. ------- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:15:57 -0800 From: Rick Kruger Subject: Re: Re: QC tool post There is a small Phase II QC toolpost available. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1672 One drawback to it is it holds toolholders only on one side rather than 2 like the larger sizes. Some have also criticized it for excessive overhang. The TS engineering ones are available thru Little Machine Shop also: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1785 Do you have a mill? If so, you could make a set. There are a number of designs out there. Before going to Phase II AXA size for my South Bend and 7x12, I made a wedge style QCTP from 7075 T6 alum. Photos and drawings can be seen here: http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Members/RickKruger/QCTP/ Anodizing was done in my driveway. Rick K. Portland, OR ------- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:32:42 -0500 From: David Beierl Subject: Re: Chinese quick change tool posts At 12:21 PM 11/28/2002, Rodent wrote: >Harbor Freight sells a quick change toolpost for their 4 x 10 mini lathe >similar to their V-style model -- its about $100 with the boring bar and >knurling tool. Not sure if you could adapt it to the 6" Atlas, and the >quality is so-so, but it lets you change tools without having to readjust >the height every time. www.harborfreight.com -- item # 42806-0VGA I have this and use it on the 618 very successfully. I drilled a second mounting hole halfway between center and point (the one facing you in the HF catalog picture). This gives some choice in how far the cross-slide must be retracted. I mount it on a 1/8" high spacer so it clears the hump on the 618 compound slide, and I put it on a faceplate and turned off some height from the bottom (not a lot). I milled a relief in the lower edge of the parting-tool holder to let it clear the corner of the compound slide (two cuts with a hacksaw would do it if necessary) -- now moot for me as I part from the back with the holder upside down. I forget what came with it in the way of mounting hardware, maybe none. The hole takes a 3/8" socket-head capscrew nicely. Note that it is not a "piston-type" as described on the website. The picture there clearly shows how it works -- the block has female dovetails and is slotted so the dovetails will pinch the male dovetails on the holders when you take up a capscrew on the side. The head of one of the screws is just visible in the picture. The 3/8" chuck (no name, reasonable quality, all machined) has a 3/8-24 mount and is mounted to a 1/2" round bar that fits the boring bar holder. The parting-tool holder takes a half-inch (?) wedge-section blade (one supplied, so-so quality). I milled a little groove so it would also take a T-secton blade which I normally use. david ------- Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:19:04 -0500 From: Mark Denovich Subject: 6" compound rest slop I have an Atlas MK II 6" lathe. I purchased a AXA sized quick change tool post from HF to go with it. I love the functionality of the quick change tool post. The problem is that it holds the tool quite a ways off center. This highlights the looseness in the compound slide... too deep of a cut and the rest is torqued down on the tool side causing the bit to dig in. I've tried adjusting the gibs to remove this play, and it's still there even with the gibs quite tight. The crossfeed has a some side to side play as well, but very little in comparison. Any suggestions, possible modifications? The TS Engineering QC kit is certianly attractive, and would reduce the ammount of overhang (and thereby minimize the play.) But I'd like to be able to use my current QC tool post, especially since I already own it! Oh, I happen to have a few pictures of a part of my shop on-line. I recently extended my workbench to make room for my newly acquired bench mill/drill (a King Midas) so I took a few picures of the process.: http://denovich.com/cgi-bin/liveframe.cgi/shop I used 2 layers of 3/4" Maple plywood for the top, 2x6s for legs, and 2x4s for the frame. The end result was a very stiff workbench. Mark ------- Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:07:57 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: 6" compound rest slop My Atlas 618, despite tuning up the cross & top slides, is kinda wiggly, even with my block & pillar type toolrest. Certainly a lot less so than with the original lantern & Armstrong holder, but still. Remember, though, it's a small hobby type lathe, made to sell for a small price, compared to a SB or Logan. Be reasonable in your expectations. Or even try my TP at 60.00. Mert ------- Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:54:57 -0500 (EST) From: Kirk M Scammon Subject: Re: 6" compound rest slop Mark, I have a similar problem when I am boring, and spoke to a friends father, who worked as a machinst in the steel industry. He said that most likely that the gibs are worn out even if they feel tight. He said that if you take them out and measure them they will have a taper from top to bottom and end to end. He was also surprised when I said that they were made out of steel on my lathe, he thought that they shoud be made from a bronze alloy. I haven't had a chance to check mine since I talked to hime, but plan to this coming weekend. Kirk ------- Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:32:01 -0600 From: "Microsoft mail Server" Subject: Re: 6" compound rest slop From: "Jon Elson" To: > Mild steel on cast iron works very well, and has been used for many > years. What he probably was thinking of was lathes with hardened steel > ways. A steel gib there would be a disaster. Some machines were built > with cast iron gibs, but they tended to break easily due to the shape. > There have been a number of schemes to deal with this, bronze, teflon > way liner material, etc. Jon I have a model 3950 Atlas 6 inch lathe with the same problem. The gibs seem to be made of plastic. They can be tightened down to where no movement is possible, but anything less loses rigidity if any adjustments need to be made when feeding into a cut. Industrial literature promotes bronze alloy gibs. I think that the compound design is a weak one. The original 1976 manual that came with the lathe warns about excessive overhang of the compound in feeding in or feeding out (for large diameter workpieces). The compound may break. It looks like a minimum design of cast iron. Not really made for big indexable tool posts. The best thing to do is go to www.metalmart.com catalog and buy a piece of cast iron bar or plate and make an adapter, so your tool post sits squarely on the compound "T" slot with minimum overhang in any direction. The compound design is just weak, and it needs any kind of help you can give it. Any kind of overhang of more than about 1/4 of an inch is inviting a broken compound! James ------- Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:51:38 EST From: JMartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: 6" compound rest slop jts4545x~xxnetzero.net writes: << I think that the compound design is a weak one. You're right - the 6" compound slide is a weak one. I broke one myself, broke in the middle of the T slot. Not much cast iron there. Now, I keep the compound cranked all the way back unless I need the travel. Interrupted cuts, boring to a shoulder and heavy cutoff work can put too much stress on the compound. Asking a small lathe to handle work beyond its normal capacity is something we all have to do occasionally, and occasionally it bites us. The compound I broke was the old round top style, the new one is the square. Doesn't seem any heavier, though. John Martin ------- Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:50:38 EST From: cmiller231x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: 6" compound rest slop I can't speak for the 6" as i have a 10-f . It also is not very rigid on the compound as Jon has pointed out many times and i whole heartedly agree with. I just want to mention that i found the gib interfering with the dovetail on the cross slide . ( It was a sharp corner on the gib. ) I know this is a long shot but is easy to check This contributed to my chatter problem. My >02 cents chris ------- Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:46:49 EST From: JMartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: 6" spindle shaft In a message dated 12/4/02, lynn.chidesterx~xxxtp.varian.com writes: << In addition, 1" x 10 hardware (chucks) is much easier to find. My (limited) experience is that the 1"X8TPI (since it is a std. thread size and used on woodworking lathes currently in production) is the easier size to find accessories (used and new) in. What is the group's experience on this? Same as mine, always finding acces. for the spindle thread size you don't have? Lynn C. (in SLC, UT) >> 1 x 8 is a more common thread for woodworking lathes, and if woodworking is what you are most interested in would probably be fine. Most of the 3-jaw and 4-jaw chucks sold threaded 1 x 8 are made primarily for woodworking, and are not as heavy or accurate as the metalworking chucks. If you want to mount the special chucks used by bowl turners, you'll want the 1 x 8. For the better quality chucks typically used by metalworkers, however, you'll find many more in 1 x 10 than in 1 x 8. I have a wood lathe with a 1 x 8 spindle, and a metal lathe with a 1 x 10. I made up two adapters to allow me to use all of my chucks and faceplates on either machine. Actually, I find myself using them mostly to make up special cup chucks and similar on the metal lathe. John Martin ------- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:45:30 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Back Gear engagement? There are two pins that need to be moved to change to/from the backgear. One is on the chuck face of the headstock at the height of the spindle in the front area of the headstock and it goes in/out about 1/4" or so and it is a knob that is just sticking there, not seemingly doing anything. This knob is going into a hole in the big (relative term here) drum that the other sliding pin is mounted on. When the pin is out, the drum will rotate while when you find its hole in the drum and insert the pin, the drum won't turn. The other pin is on the spindle face of that drum and when it slides back and forth across the chuck face after you loosen the finger nut. It moves radially in and out and when in, locks the gears and when out, allows the gears to move. There are, quite obviously, 4 positions these two pins can be in and they result in 4 different things, locked, low speed, high speed and free- turning of the spindle. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 12:57:05 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Comments on way wipers... I noticed Jon mentioning "way wipers" in his comments, which brings up a question... How many of the A/C line came equipped with these? I know my circa 1955 Craftsman 6" does not have any. Should they be installed, and does anybody have plans, or a description on how to do this? Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:00:51 -0500 From: "Bill Hardin" Subject: RE: Comments on way wipers... Leo: One of the pages in the AADOCS in the file section has a description on making way wipers for the smaller lathes. Fairly simple, the hardest part drilling and tapping holes in the cross carriage. None of the Craftsman 6" lathes originally came with wipers. Bill Hardin www.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman & Atlas Lathe Support ------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:01:17 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Comments on way wipers... My 10" didn't have them, but it had threaded holes where they used to be. I got the parts from Clausing service center, and am glad I did. A lot of chips would get jammed under there and grind away at the bed. If you have threaded holes sideways in the top of the carriage just above the bed ways, that is where the wipers would be attached. I don't know whether the 6" came with these or not. it would be fairly easy to make them, though. The way mine came, there was a piece of cut rubber material about 1/8" thick, then a piece of felt about the same size, and a stamped metal cover to hold it all in place. There is a small hole so you can keep the felt oiled. I always wondered about this design, it seems like it would keep oil OUT of the carriage, instead of keeping it in! But, I followed the directions and put it on that way, with the rubber against the carriage, and the felt on top of it. Jon ------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:00:06 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Comments on way wipers... > There is a small hole so you can keep > the felt oiled. I always wondered about this design, it seems like it > would keep oil OUT of the carriage, instead of keeping it in! Wipers are best combined with an internal oiling system. This can be added by drilling a suitable small hole thru the carriage top over the outer portion of each carriage way, with an enlarged portion to accept a small Gits flip-top oil cup (from MSC, etc). Now the oil thru the oiler will wash out the grit and grime from under the carriage. Works great. A bit of fluffed-out felt in the oiler cup will filter the oil so as to prevent chips getting in while oiling. Your carriage will be floating on oil in no time. This has worked best on ways including a flat and a prismatic way, as the oiler can be placed so as to allow excess to drip around for the lower portion where the gib rides. But it will help even on an Atlas, I would think, although I have not applied it to an Atlas. Jerrold ------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:22:19 -0600 From: "John Glowacki" Subject: Re: Comments on way wipers... I just bought new way wipers and felt way oilers from Clausing. I think they cost $1 a piece. Cheep maintenance item. John Glowacki ------- Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:03:34 -0000 From: "speedphoto300 " Subject: Re: 618 Atlas metal lathe [ALSO SEE FILE "/metal/thread_dial_and_half_nut.txt" FOR MORE ON REPAIRING OR REPLACING HALF NUTS] Dennis If you do buy the half nuts, check first to see if your old ones are .5 or .75 inches wide, the ones available from Clausing are the more recent wider ones. If yours are the narrow ones you either need to get the M6-13A guide or widen the slot in your old one. Joe ------- Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:08:39 -0600 From: Rodent Subject: Re: toolposts for 6 inch lathe > I am returning to the list after a lengthy silence, mostly because of > surgery and related problems, so forgive me if my question has been > covered recently. > I am considering getting a toolpost set, as the Aloris or Phase II > typeam concerned about sizes. The smallest listed is "up to 12"" > swing. the question-- is this size right for the Atlas-Craftsman > 618 lathe? An additional question. of course is-- What opinions > do the group have about them? www.mscdirect.com item # 75544825 -- apparently fits 5-8" swing item # 09047002 -- fits 0-8" swing Even though they are a bit cheesy, the $100 Harbor Freight set with the knurling tool and drill chuck should work. I have one on my 4 x 10 lathe using the $20 5-piece carbide insert tool holders and it does pretty well. ------- Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:46:07 -0500 From: SZuiderveenx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: toolposts for 6 inch lathe I believe this product is so new that a lot of folks do not know about it yet There is a new Phase II tool post that is smaller than the 100 or AXA type. I have had one in my hands and it look neat. The following link is the cheaper place to get it, although presently out of stock. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1672 It is also stocked by MSC (and presently in stock), but at a much higher price. http://www.mscdirect.com/PDF.process?pdf=1657&Keyword=Y Steve Zuiderveen -------- Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:27:06 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Atlas 6-18 lathe If a set of used will do you any good you can have for price of shipping. These are standard bearings available thru your local industrial bearing house for about $30 to $40 complete. Helps if you have the old bearings to pick part number off. old bearing Timken 07196 cup 07079 bearing 07196 cup 07100 bearing (larger bore) New Timken have same numbers. Does this help? Bearings I removed are in decent shape,got new because I am trying for A plus rebuild. Some if not all of your other needs are available thru oem Clausing Atlas most probably sole source of new parts. Bearings are available more reasonably locally. Look in yellow pages under bearings or an internet based supplier. If used will do or it on tight budget free for shipping. Louis ------- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:01:47 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: Cross slide table for Atlas 618 I assume you would like a milling table sinmilar to, but larger, than the one that used to be sold for the Unimat. I can make anything within reason,and could do this for you. You would save a lot of money, tho' if you made it yourself. I would suggest making a pattern of threaded holes in it , rather than the commoner T-slots. Much easier to make & to use, and no non standard T-bolts or nuts.. Mert ------- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:07:49 -0000 From: "elperkins2003 " Subject: Re: Cross slide table for Atlas 618 Mark; a few years back, Bower Machine was making a T Slotted cross slide for the 6" Atlas Craftsman lathe. At the time, I had purchased a T slotted cross slide casting for my South Bend 9" from Metal Lathe Accessories, and sent it to Bower to get it machined. Andy Loftquist at MLA had a deal going where if you bought the casting from him, he would send it directly to Bower to get the machining done and Bower would forward it to the customer when finished. When I got the finished cross slide, I got a catalogue of parts, accessories, and tooling for the Atlas 6" that Bower was making. In this cataloge, he listed a slotted cross slide. I don't remember the phone number for Bower, but I'll bet if you call Andy Loftqist at MLA, he would have it. MLA has a website now where you can probably find out how to contact Andy Loftquist. If I remember, Bower was somewhere in Pennsylvania. He made a very nice T slotted face plate for my 6" Atlas for a very reasonable price. I eventually also had him machine a MLA 9" T slotted faceplate, along with an MLA precision ground angle plate, both for my South Bend. Both Bower and MLA were very good people to do business with. Perk in Cincinnati ------- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:10:31 -0500 From: "Bill Hardin" Subject: RE: Re: Cross slide table for Atlas 618 Earl Bower can be reached at: ebowerx~xxlcsys.net He is a nice guy to deal with and does wonderful machining to order. Bill Hardin www.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman & Atlas Lathe Support ------- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:08:16 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Cross slide table for Atlas 618 easy to make ......bore out some 1 + in flat stock ,turn a flange ,& drill 2 holes ...use compound as a guide........ & drill 1/4x20 hole pattern for clamping stock on table .........no milling necessary & wwaaaaaaay cheaper than if someone like earl bowers made it for u (even tho the products are well done & priced fairly)......save ur money for an angle plate to make a vertical slide.(that mounts IN PLACE of compound).......the atlas 6in mill attach is outrageously high on e bay , but i can take a .030 deep full 3/8 cut on steel w/ mine..( & thats good!). best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 23:17:32 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Cross slide table for Atlas 618 > easy to make ....bore out some 1 + in flat stock ,turn a flange ,& drill > 2 holes ...use compound as a guide......... & drill 1/4x20 hole pattern Got to agree, using a table is fine, up until you discover that you have no "Z" movement, it all happens with shims. Any milling attachment is better in that respect, but I will warn you there isn't a one of them that is remotely close to the worst milling machine in usability. The best is probably the MLA, which bolts right to their slotted crosslide. Won't work for you, both parts are way too big for the itty bitty crosslide way on the 6". You are better off with the milling attachment. BUT, at the prices I have seen for ebay ones, why diddle around? You can start to look at the small import dovetail column mills at about $500, and they will work 100 times better than the attachment. So for $275 for a poor substitute, or $500 for a workable machine, it looks like a no-brainer. Jerrold ------- Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:24:01 -0400 From: "James E. Baldock" Subject: Re: QC Tool Post, Where can I get one? Charlie Davis wrote: >I want to purchase a Quick Change tool post for my Atlas 6" lathe. >I have purchased 2 so far and neither one is the right one for my lathe. >Can someone tell me what brand and where to purchase one. I bought >one from Enco, and it is to big, the flyer said up to 12 inch, but it is >way too big, and the other from Little Machine Shop.Com, it is too small, >will fit Taig and Sherline, and says it will fit Atlas, but alas no. Please help. Thanks Charlie Ventura, Ca Charlie, I just bought this one. It looks like a winner. I have not had a chance to use it yet. Its aluminum but well done, and a bit pricey. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rmteo/index.html Jim ------- Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 08:48:18 -0800 (PST) From: helpx~xx4mtool.com Subject: New 6" Atlas Parts - links corrected Humble apologies to those who couldn't get these picture links before. The correct ones are posted below- Regards, George O'Connor georgex~xx4mtool.com Here is a list of 6" Atlas items available directly from us. We are a machine shop and manufacturing facility, and manufacture items such as these, as well as other items we make (sheet metalbbrakes and accessories for cutoff bandsaws). Currently the price for the blocks (and picture links)are: 6" Atlas: Turning block with (2 or 4) 3/8" slots =$36.00 (#4M6T38) Turning block w/ 10mm slots (2 or 4) =$36.00 (#4M6T39) http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/turna.JPG http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/turnb.JPG http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/turnc.JPG We have carbide tipped bits available, cutting towards the headstock ("AR" type) or threading ("E" type) available for $3.00 each, 3/8"square shank. We can and have supplied these blocks for 1/2" tooling, but our experience is that 3/8" works better. Boring Block for 1/2", 3/8" & 5/16" bars =$35.00 (#4M6B50) http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/borea.JPG http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/boreb.JPG Indexing 4 Way toolpost. 16 position indexing turret tool post for this small sized lathe.=$105 (#4M6I38) http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/indexa.JPG http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/indexb.JPG http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/indexc.JPG Radiusing fixture uses 1/4" bits. =$130 (#4M6R25) The one in the picture is on one of our Atlases, Showing ball and cavity work, as well as side turning of a radius. It replaces your compound with a ground 4340 tool steel base, and is capable of turning male radii to 1", and even larger female diameters. The tool bits it uses are standard 1/4" bits turning. http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/rada.JPG http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/rad2.JPG http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/rad3.JPG 1"-10 threaded Backplate blank- =$36 (#4M6BP210) This is face ground tool steel, which is 3" diameter, and threaded for the spindle nose. There is a chamfer on the headstock side for the indexing pin. Just what you need for that plain backed chuck or special driving need. It can be drilled tapped or milled to suit your needs. We do upon request offer 1"-8 (#4M6BP218) ones as well ($36)- Also 4" Diameter plates are available (#4M6BP310) at $40. http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/bplate.JPG Shipping of the blocks via priority mail are $5.00 each, the Radiusing fixture or the backplate are $7.25 each. We will give you costs on UPS or other shipping methods, as well as combined shipping costs. We soon will offer other items, including gears in brass and plastic(24dp) to mesh with your existing Zamak ones, tee slotted cross slide tables (another item no-one makes yet- this one was from a customer's suggestion), and other items in the design stages only (email your suggestions!) We also make similar blocks for SouthBend model "A"'s, Logan 11" ones, Craftsman 12", as well as some other models. Our website (www.4mtool.com) is only "Under construction" right now, but feel free to email us for any info more info. We also offer these items for auction on eBay.com (our user name is "forem"), which often seems to show the pictures faster then the links below. Our # in the daytime (EST) is 1-800-603-0323- but as we do commercial work here as well, I am not always available to talk, although I will return calls and emails. Our Address is: 4M Tool 1044 Riverside Drive Vassalboro Me 04989-4119 Money orders, personal or business check are fine for purchases. I can also now take credit cards via paypal.com (see data below) Regards, George O'Connor Info for credit cards on paypal: Please use georgex~xx4mtool.com or foremx~xxdialmaine.com for email and leave optional boxes blank. Link: www.paypal.com or https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=4mtoolx~xxdialmaine.com ------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:29:28 -0800 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe Anthony wrote: >I think, but am not certain, that the 1"x8 TPI and 1"x10 TPI spindles are interchangeable. Even if they are, why would you want the 8 TPI spindle? I believe 1" x 10 TPI chucks and attachments are much more readily available. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. < Hi Anthony: a very good question that made me examine my experiences. When I acquired my Atlas 618 a few years ago with 1" x 10 tpi spindle (and only one chuck -- a 3-jaw), I learned this spindle thread was the most common for this Atlas model. While looking for a new 4-jaw, I confirmed your observation that there are more backing plates available prethreaded for 1" x 10 tpi , with or without a plain-back chuck included. Then I met an engineer with more than 60 years experience on metal lathes (he got his first at age 17). He pointed out that in his youth, the now-common 3 or 4-jaw engineering chucks were very costly, and quite rarely used by amateurs and in small metal shops. Round parts were commonly turned between centres driven by a dog on the ever-adaptable faceplate. Most amateurs learned their other metal turning using faceplates with the work clamped to it. When parts they used were irregularly shaped, such as small lumpy castings, they were best mounted on a faceplate anyway. The same faceplate clamping, with spindle locked, was used for milling with a separately driven arbor mounted on the cross-slide. To set up holding jigs for various parts, it became practical to have several specialized faceplates. Some had home-made jaw-clamps that emulated the 4-jaw chuck; work could be perfectly centred. To reduce costs, faceplates were quickly made up by an expedient on the smaller lathes (say equivalent to our 6" or smaller Atlases, Sherline, Taig, etc.). They simply acquired a good, common nut for their spindle thread. To this they welded a flat steel plate, and then faced it flat while on its spindle. It could then be customized to your heart's content and there was no big deal if new needs dictated drilling and/or tapping more holes until it looked like swiss cheese. Ruined it? No big deal; a new one was a few minutes and maybe one buck away. I know some will say this is not a high quality faceplate, but customized to an individual lathe, it is much more than "good enough" for small work. My friend had several small flat-back engineering chucks bought used, also mounted on backing plates made the same way as the faceplates. His hobby metal turning on his home metal lathes resulted in some little gems of internal combustion engines. As the retired chief engineer of a large aircraft manufacturer's plant here, I figured he knew his stuff. Fine idea, so I went looking for some 1" x 10 tpi nuts to make some inexpensive faceplates (compared to Clausing'$ new one). Well golly, couldn't find one in this town or in my catalogues. Funny thing though, retailers kept asking me whether I really meant 1" x 8 tpi nuts, as they thrust handfuls at me. So I still have no nut-based faceplate. Okay, so I'd start from scratch. Internal threading was not, and is not, my favourite thing. Many have suggested that threading on the lathe is no biggie if you get close and then clean up at the end with a tap. I guess they were talking about little threads because I soon found 1" x 10 tpi taps were neither common nor remotely close to free. They are listed as specialty items while the 1" x 8 tpi are standard items. So here is my new slant on the 1" x 10 versus 8 tpi choice. ****** 1" x 10 TPI. 1" x 10 tpi is fine for a slightly better selection in engineering chucks, where the backing plate is prethreaded. There are no current companies that I have found that make their standard woodturning chucks and accessories in 1" x 10 tpi. ****** 1" x 8 TPI. 8 tpi prethreaded nuts are easily available for quick light faceplates. The longer so-called coupling nuts have enough length so that their headstock end can be perfectly fitted to the register. Same for backing plates for small chucks of misc origin. Taps and dies are much more common in 8 tpi. All your 1" x 8 tpi chucks, faceplates, and collet sets are useable on your 1" x 8 tpi woodworking lathes which are fairly common. And in the woodworking catalogues there are literally dozens of woodworking chucks (fine metal-class engineering chucks too) and faceplates and collet chucks available in 1" x 8 tpi that can be used on your metal lathe. ****** So I still have my 618 in 1" x 10 tpi, but I now kinda envy the other guys. Steve in Thunder Bay ------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:46:44 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe Kinda like beta max vs vhs ------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:17:01 EST From: JMartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe On the subject of 1 x 8 vs 1 x 10 spindle threads, don't forget that the 1 x 10 are stronger. Wouldn't make too much difference on a solid spindle, but the roots of the 1 x 8 thread seem awful close to the #2 Morse bore. I've got the best of both worlds, however - two lathes, each with both 1 x 8 and 1 x 10 capabilities. How's that, you ask? Well, my Atlas 6" metal lathe came with a 1 x 10 spindle. My Delta wood lathe came with a 1 x 8 spindle. So on the Atlas I threaded a piece of 1-1/2" 12L14 round to 1 x 10 internal, mounted it on the spindle, and threaded the end to 1 x 8 external. Then I threaded another piece to 1 x 8 internal, mounted it on the adapter I had just made, and threaded the end to 1 x 10 external. The first adapter is not all that useful. I needed it of course to make the second, and also use it to make cup chucks and other special chucks for the wood lathe on the Atlas. The second adapter I often use to mount the 3 jaw or 4 jaw Atlas chucks on the wood lathe. Neither is as accurate as a threaded spindle, but are OK for my needs. John Martin ------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:27:11 -0500 From: Nick Hull Subject: Cheap 1-10 faceplates A previous poster made a good case for making cheap expendable faceplates by welding a nut on a disk and drilling it custom for each job. The problem is that 1-10 nuts are so hard to find. Let me throw out a suggestion and see if anyone bites; How about someone casting cheap Zamak (or aluminum) 1-10 faceplates? I envision a 2-piece open mold, the top (face) being open and a threaded insert providing the 1-10 cast in thread. The user would face the register and the face. Being just a rough casting hopefully woulf keep the proce low enough for it to be an expendable. Anyone volunteering to try this as a project to supply a AC need? ------- Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 19:28:50 -0000 From: "tomin130" Subject: Re: Cheap 1-10 faceplates Grizzly has threaded inserts available in 1"-8 and 10 tpi, as well as 1 1/2"-8 tpi. (plus a number of other sizes). These are in the wood lathe section of their catalog, p. 87 (2003). You could make a faceplate out of a piece of plate which can then be bolted to the insert. They're only $6.95 ea. I've been thinking of doing this myself. Tom ------- Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:37:07 -0000 From: "Torne Lignum" Subject: Re: Cheap 1-10 faceplates In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "tomin130" wrote: > Grizzly has threaded inserts available in 1"-8 and 10 tpi, as well as > 1 1/2"-8 tpi. I have a number of these. They make a great base for utility woodturning faceplates. They are similar to an iron pipe union but are tapped at one end (at 3 equidistant points) for cap screws which are included. Also try MSC. . They have some really odd size threaded nuts, including some reverse threads. doc ------- Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:45:24 -0800 From: "S or J" Subject: Atlas 618 Lathes 4-Inch 3 & 4-Jaw Chucks There are more than a few 4" diameter chucks readily available new for use on the 1" spindle Atlas 618 lathes. In Canada for example, Busy Bee at www.busybeetools.com had suitable flat back scroll 3-jaw chucks with 2 sets of jaws as follows: 440504 3-jaw 3 inch diameter for $105. Cdn; and B019 3-jaw 4 inch diameter for $99. Cdn. Can also be reached in Canada at 1-800-461-2879. Usual caveat: I am just a happy customer. Both chucks will require a backing plate as from any number of suppliers, either prethreaded to an Atlas standard or a plain casting, or a welded up plate, or some even turned one from a weightlifting bar stop. Of course if you already have a worn out Atlas chuck, just use its backing plate with the new chuck. I see from the Atlas archives that Taig once offered their normal light- duty 3-jaw chuck with customizable aluminium jaw inserts prethreaded to fit an Atlas 1" x 10 tpi spindle. The larger US suppliers should have several 4-jaw independent chucks in 4" diameter sizes. They will range from okay Chinese manufacture to the better Bisons. Prethreaded or rough casting backing plates are widely available. Original Atlas-brand chucks come up at auctions but may prove to be in worse shape than the chuck you are replacing. Since even Atlas bought third-party chucks, there is no harm or shame in putting a brand new chuck on. I would suggest anyone looking for a new chuck visit http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ and read the files Atlas 618 Gems, Atlas Backing Plates for Chucks, Atlas Chucks General, and Chucks General for much of what has been said in the past in the Atlas e-groups on the subject. There are more than enough tips there to get a new chuck found, bought and mounted. Other metalworking problems? 75 more other files that save a lot of time compared to wading through the e-groups' archives for Atlas, Taig, Sherline, & shapers. And no ads. Now wasn't part of the magic in this metal hobby the months or years we spend with our classic machines trying to tune, repair, and hunt down old parts? Then we make tools and accessories. In my next lifetime, I might actually get to make something unrelated to the hobby ;-) Steve in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada ------- Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 15:34:11 -0800 From: Marc & Marilynn Subject: 618 quick change tool post Just purchased a quick change tool post for my 618 and have a few minor fit problems. I'm not sure if the t-nut machining on the compound is the same for all series of this lathe and the maker (quick change) probably doubts what I am telling him. Anyone have insight to variations in this component from Atlas? The t-nut was too tall for the slot by .020 and the spacer between it and the tool holder was also too tall. I could not get a bit down to the chuck rotational centerline. Marc Nichols Age & Treachery Racing, Ltd. Grass Valley, CA ------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:52:59 -0600 From: "Randy Pedersen" Subject: Re: Anybody retrofit spindle bushings with bearings on 6 X 18 lathe? From: "snagglexr650" > I've got an Atlas/Craftsman 6 X 18 on the way. I know some came > with Timken spindle bearings. I'm pretty sure the one I bought > doens't have ball bearings. However, I read on lathes.co.uk that > some of the Craftsman branded lathes (mostly bushed headstocks) left > the factory with Timken ball bearing like the Atlas branded lathes > had. I've been wondering if it was possible to "retrofit" the bushed > headstock with the Timken or similar ball bearings. Has anybody > heard of such an 'upgrade'? > If anybody has a 6 X 18 with the Timken spindle bearings, could > you get the Timken part numbers for the bearings, and/or the OD, ID > and thickness dimensions? Any info would be great. Thanks alot. I don't believe there is enough material in the bushing style headstock to take the larger Timken bearings. If you look close the bushing type has the small caps that bolt down to hold the bushings and they are just large enough to hold the thin bushing. If the spindle has to much play you can sometimes find Timken headstocks on Ebay. Randy ------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:50:39 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Anybody retrofit spindle bushings with bearings on 6 X 18 lathe? Randy, I think you are right about the lack of material in the head stock for ball or tapered roller bearings, at least stock (not custom made) items. I have a circa 1955 Craftsman (made by atlas) lathe. The bearings are held completely in the headstock casting, not by caps bolted on. The area in front (operator's side) of the spindle is slit. (Makes it look like a cap at first glance.) There is one screw (allen head) for each bearing that is in front (operator's side) of the spindle that is used to adjust the snugness of the bearings. The manual that was supplied with the lathe gives instructions on how to adjust the bearings. If anyone is interested, I can look up these instructions and post them here. Sintered bronze (oilite) bearing are very good bearings, as long as they are kept well lubricated. (my opinion) They may not take high speed operation as well as roller or ball type. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 06:38:55 -0800 (PST) From: helpx~xx4mtool.com Subject: Re: What are collet options on Atlas 6x18 (101.21400) The easiest option is a #2 Morse Taper Collet. These were popular in the 50's thru 70's as Bridgeport Milling Machines which used the "M" head (before the current J or J-2 type head), had them. Bridgeport and many other makers (Scully-Jones, Collis, etc.) made them. They have the standard taper (#2MT on the outside, which is the headstock taper on your lathe, but also have internal threads (3/8"-16 NC) for a drawbar. If you can find them (perhaps eBay) they are simplicity itself. Simply make your own drawbar with a 3/8"-16 hex head bolt, a couple of jam nuts, and a fender washer (to help protect the threaded end of the back of your headstock spindle. Regards, George O'Connor georgex~xx4mtool.com ------- NOTE TO FILE: There are many collet options and sources discussed in the Cutters, Collets, and Arbors text-file. ------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:31:10 EST From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: What are collet options on Atlas 6x18 (101.21400) In a message dated Sun, 30 Mar 2003, David R. Kuechenmeister writes: << I think the 3-C collet series goes to 3/4 inch, but I don't know about the range of shapes. There have been several discussions about making a collet adapter for the lathe within the last couple months. >> The original question was posted by Bruno. The drawback to MT-2 collets is the limited number of sizes available (by 1/32" intervals I believe) and the tendency to lock into the spindle since Morse tapers are a self-holding taper. This can require "rapping" on the back of the drawbar to loosen the collet, and that can be injurious to the taper roller bearings. It would be less of an issue if you have an Oilite bushing headstock. All the Atlas-built 6" lathes have a spindle bore of just over 1/2" and an MT-2 internal taper. I believe this also applies to the AA-built 6" lathes but I can't guarantee that. MT-2 has a nose opening of .700". The only way you would mount a 3C collet to these lathes is with an adapter sticking well out from the spindle, more than 2-3/4". If you were going to do this you might as well go to 5C though that would require at least 3-1/2" beyond the spindle nose. The original collet setup for the Atlas 6" lathes was a proprietary offering from Atlas, Part #M6-750. Later it was offered as 6AT, also an Atlas proprietary design. As far as I know M6-750 and 6AT are identical but I can't verify that. I have a drawing for the Atlas #M6-751 Collet that is used with the M6-750 design but I don't have the adapter drawing (though that can be inferred from the collet drawing) and I don't have any specific information on the 6AT components. Per an old Atlas catalog I have, the 6AT collets to fit the M6-750 Collet Attachment were available in 1/32" increments from 1/32" thru 9/32". There are *no* alternative collet setups available as a direct replacement for the M6-750 design. Of the Cataract series (3C, 5C, etc.) the closest is 2C. The 2C adapter has a nose opening of .608" and a parallel bore of 31/64", collet drawbar thread is .442" x 30 TPI. You could probably squeeze this in but where would you find 2C collets. I'm certain that Hardinge would be happy to make them for you but the price would be outlandish. The other serious possibilities are to adapt to use 8 mm or 10 mm collets as used on watchmakers' lathes. These are somewhat more readily available than either the M6-751/6AT or 2C collets but still not cheap. Standard 8 or 10 mm collets are available at 0.1 mm intervals, approximately .004". Hope the above is informative. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:22:47 -0700 From: lynn.chidesterx~xxxtp.varian.com Subject: Re: What are collet options on Atlas 6x18 (101.21400) The best suggestion I have for 6X18 collets is to purchase most of the items needed for small metric double angle collets in the form of a MT-3 collet set (as used on the 7X10 type mini-lathes and mini-mills). While this doesn't match with the factory supplied accessories, and will require the user to machine part of the collet chuck in place (on their lathe), the collets are available new, and are inexpensive. Also, the full headstock bore can be used, as the collet chuck would mount on the spindle nose. Lastly, these collets have no threads, and so can be easily made (in pairs, nose to nose) on the lathe between centers. Check out Grizzly, Little Machine Shop, Harbor Freight, or Homier as possible sources. Lynn C (in SLC, UT) ------- Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:23:31 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Brand new group for Atlas (Craftsman) 618 lathe With the recent 618 activity here including Vince, the new 618 owner, I guess it's a good time to announce that there is a brand new yahoogroup now for Atlas and Craftsman 618 lathe owners. It's called , and here are the direct links to view and sign up for it: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas618lathe/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas618lathe/join A search on "atlas lathe" from any yahoogroup page will get you to Atlas 618 too. All 618 people are invited to sign up so we can get some good posts going. We'd like to feature your 618 lathe installation photos, especially those that show variable speed drives or quick change tool posts. Hank ------- Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:53:18 -0000 From: "ihc1965" Subject: Re: WooHoo!! I finally got a lathe! --- In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Bob May" wrote: > With all that glee, don't forget that the 618 lathe has > a weak spindle so don't go overboard with the cutting of chips. Thanks for the advice Bob. That actually brings me to my first question. The 3-jaw chuck that came with this lathe does not appear to be an Atlas chuck. It has a back plate that is probably about 2" thick and the whole thing is very heavy. (I haven't weighed it, but I would guess that it's at least 5 pounds.) Do you think the spindle will be able to handle this much weight? Vince ------- Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:13:16 -0600 From: "Randy Pedersen" Subject: Re: Re: WooHoo!! I finally got a lathe! Vince: I don't believe the weight is going to be a problem but the amount of overhang from the register shoulder of the spindle should be kept to a minimum. I have own my 618 for nearly 20 years and I don't agree that the spindle is weak. I would see about narrowing up the back plate so you can move the chuck back closer to the register. Neither my 3 jaw or 4 jaw chucks are mounted on backing plates that thick. The AA lathes sold by Sears under the 109 model are the ones with the weak spindle they bend quite easy. Enjoy your new tool Randy Pedersen Salina, Ks Atlas 618 South Bend 1946 9" A, 1938 9" C Enco 1105 Mill Drill ------- Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:08:35 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Re: WooHoo!! I finally got a lathe! 2" thick for a backing plate is rather quite thick! Typical backplate thickness is more like about 1/4 to 3/8" thick for these lathes. I'll note that it isn't weight on the spindle that is the problem so much as sudden high forces on that spindle that bend them. Working cast iron castings is something that is best left to the larger stronger lathes as far as I am concerned. These are more of aluminum and brass lathes. Also, what do you consider a backplate? 3 jaw chucks tend to be less liable to have a backing plate for these lathes. If you can pull the back plate off of the chuck and have all the interior parts stay then it and it is indeed 2" thick then somebody really didn't want to do any excess work to get the chuck on the lathe. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 18:38:37 -0000 From: "ihc1965" Subject: Re: WooHoo!! I finally got a lathe! Bob, I took another look at my 3-jaw chuck. It's the kind where the jaws move by turning a ring on the edge of the chuck. Immediately behind this ring is what I am calling the "backplate." It's about two inches thick, but half of that is turned down to create a narrower shoulder near the spindle end. The whole thing is about four inches thick and weighs 9 lbs. The odd thing is that the chuck and backplate are both threaded all the way through, making me wonder if someone added the plate at a later date. I can't see any way to take the plate off -- no screws anywhere. There is a single small (3/16") hole on the back of the backplate that looks like it might have been used with a rod or wrench to remove the chuck from the spindle. If this plate isn't necessary, it sure would lighten the load on the spindle. Vince ------- Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:51:23 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Re: milling adapter // was Howdy!! The Sears/Atlas milling adapter also required that you remove the compound slide in order to mount the adapter. The vise that was supplied with it left something to be desired. It required that you mount the workpiece between two loose jaws. and clamp with two bolts. (i found that it was best to remove the vise so it would lay flat on the workbench when you mounted the workpiece) You could remove the vise (mounted on a circle identical to the compound mount, and replace it with the compound slide. (I never found a use for this.) I did find a use for the vise, replacing the compound slide and installing the vise in its place. I mounted a slitting saw on the spindle and use the carriage and cross slide to make precision cuts. The milling adapter has very limited range in the x, y directions. To make larger milled parts, I adapted a drill press to perform the milling. Now, I have a Grizzly mini-mill, an excellent machine and a size companion for a six inch lathe. Leo (pearland, tx) BTW: I have a 6x18 Craftsman/Atlas lathe, purchased new in 1955. ------- Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:20:20 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: specs for tool post rocker Tool post rocker for the original lighthouse tool post holder on a Atlas/Craftsman 6" lathe. Length of rocker: 2.057" width : 0.378" This part represents a circular segment, As such, the height of the segment is; 0.263". The radius of the curve at the bottom is 4.3627". The top surface is flat, rough, similar to a knurl pattern. The corners of the ends are slightly rounded. The bottom surface edges are rounded with a 5/64" radius. Hope this helps, Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:46:43 -0400 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: Proper procedure for engaging half-nuts on 6" From: "azbruno" To: > I have recently started using an Atlas Craftsman 6" lathe, but I'm > not sure of the proper way to engage and disengage the half-nuts to > do no damage to the half-nuts. > Should they be engaged before starting the motor, or after? Is it OK > to disengage with the leadscrew turning? I would think that to > disengage, it would be OK with the motor running, but to engage > sounds potentially more damaging. Thanks, Bruno To use the threading dial, the half nuts are engaged with the LS turning. Shouldn't cause any problems. Mert ------- NOTE TO FILE: this conversation has been kicked over to the text file "Thread Dial and Half Nuts". It is not a new conversation and applies to many lathes besides the 618. ------- Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:49:04 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: Atlas Milling Attachment M6-501 >I would like to know if an M6-501 Atlas 10100 Milling Attachment >will fit on a Craftsman/Atlas 6" Model # 101.07301 I've been told >that it will work on a 618 Lathe. Dave, that basic number M6-501 is listed in the Atlas catalog of accessories for the 6 inch Atlas lathes. Without knowing the microscopic distinctions of your .07301 vs. the 618, I think you're okay. >On my lathe the distance from the center of the chuck to the FLAT bed is 3" Measuring roughly on my 618, I get that same distance. I believe all the important dimensions relating to the bed itself and the bed to center distance are identical among all the Atlas/Craftsman 6 inch lathes. Hank ------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:04:36 -0400 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: milling tool holding > From: "Hank" > On this subject of using the lathe to mill, what do > all you folks who have milling attachments use to > hold the milling tool? Do you have a special tool > holder, collet, or just go right in a chuck? > I was thinking for only occasional use cutting > aluminum I could chuck 3/8 and 1/2 inch shank bits > without any holder. Is this a bad or unworkable idea? Hank Hi Hank: Not a good idea. The chuck will have a hard time getting a secure grip on these hardened milling-bit shanks. Yes some people do it, but that does not make it a preferred method. Fails once and your precious jaws may be scored. If you have milling or other collets, that will provide a secure grip and peace of mind (for light milling cuts). A second, inexpensive choice is a Weldon milling holder with a #2 Morse Taper shank. The taper end should have a 3/8" threaded hole for a drawbar to securely pull it into the headstock (the drawbar can be some hardware- store all-thread and a washer and nut on the outboard end. A neat little bushing you turn yourself to suit can substitute for the flat washer, and keep the all-thread from touching the inside of the spindle. If you are in a hurry and use a flat washer, take a minute and wrap some tape around the all-thread near the nut to roughly center it in the spindle bore and prevent contact with the bore.) The Weldon device uses special Weldon milling bits that have a flat on their shank and are held in by a set screw onto that flat. (Do not use round shank bits -- they will not be held securely.) The drawbar is mandatory with the Weldon device, otherwise the milling bit can pull the Morse shank out of the spindle. A good idea is to have the milling bit positioned so that the innermost part of the flat is held by the set screw. This way during milling the bit cannot be pulled outward even a little by the cutting forces. Weldon adapters can be purchased inexpensively in standard mill bit sizes. The 3/8" size is probably the best first choice as 3/8" shank Weldon bits are readily available and are appropriate for the work on a 618 lathe. On this light (and possibly old and rickety) lathe, make sure the carriage is locked firmly for each pass of the cross-slide, and that the cross-slide gib is fairly snug, and take LIGHT cuts. One other possibility as a substitute for the Weldon commercial device is to use MT2 stub arbors that are very inexpensive. (They have hardened MT2 shanks, prethreaded for a 3/8" drawbar, and at the other end is a 1" diameter unhardened section that can be end-drilled to take a Weldon bit, and drilled and threaded for a set screw.) These stub arbors can come in handy for making slitting saw arbors, fly- cutters, boring heads, or any number of accessories; so buy a couple extra while you are ordering from a good industrial supplier; and always use the drawbar. Now a lot more info on these subjects can be found on my website http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ particularly in the text files Atlas Lathe Milling, Cutters Collets and Arbors, and of course Atlas 618 Gems. Some of the milling and workholding files are a useful read. Being careful and safe out there = more fun. Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario ------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:24:13 EDT From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: milling tool holding In a message dated Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bruno writes: << I have the Atlas milling tool holder -- the 3/8"-16 bar through the headstock and a 1/2" straight shank holder with a setscrew. I understand there are bushings for these to run with smaller mill ends (I imagine the setscrew is for the bushings), so when I learn what I'm doing, I'll make some. >> The set screw is used for holding the *cutter* in the shank holder. End mill shanks and similar tooling normally have a flat on one side of the shank. Screwing in the set screw bears against the shank and prevents it both from turning relative to the holder and also from working its way out of the holder, which it *will* do without the set screw. Look at the shank holder (more usually refered to as an end mill holder) and you will see that there is no other way to lock the shank into the holder. It isn't split as a collet and there is no other way of making the holder grip the shank. Regarding the reducing bushings, they ar made a very close fit inside the end mill holder and are bored to be a very close fit around whatever shank you plan to use in them. Each bushing has a hole drilled through it from one side in line with the set screw hole of the end mill holder. The set screw passes *through* the hole and bears directly on the flat of the shank of the smaller diameter tool shank. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:47:13 -0500 (CDT) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Re: milling tool holding The bushings that were sold by Sears in the fifties (most likely made by atlas) came in a set of four. A 7/16, 3/8, 1/4, and a 3/16 inch size. They actually had a "window" milled in the side of each, so as to allow the setscrew to pass though them and bear on the flat in the mill shank. I have a 1/2" endmill that has no "flat" on it, but the Atlas setup holds it alright too. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:15:04 EDT From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: milling tool holding Bruno writes: << Any idea if such bushings are readily available today? >> Per my copy of Clausing's Atlas Parts Price List, dated Dec. 5, 2000, #576E, consisting of 4 bushings, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, & 7/16" ID for use in a 1/2" end mill holder, was available for $33.13. Since this is a lathe list it seems not unreasonable to suggest making them yourself, as needed, there's nothing magic about it. Presuming that you have a 1/2" end mill holder find some 1/2" stock that is a close fit in the holder. Do not use undersize stock, you want a fit where you can barely insert the stock into the end mill holder. Better to machine down oversize stock than to have a loose fit in the holder. Bore the stock to a close fit on whatever shank you wish to hold (do not drill, final cut should be by boring for accuracy in size and axial alignment, same provisos about close fit). Cut off to length and make a slight chamfer on each end on both OD and ID (for ease of insertion into the end mill holder and of the tool shank). Then drill a clearance hole in the side of your new bushing for the set screw to bear against the flat on the shank of the tool you intend to hold. This would be an excellent exercise for a novice machinist. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:21:32 EDT From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: milling tool holding In a message dated Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:47:06 -0000, Bruno writes: <> Drilling does *not* produce an accurate hole. They tend to cut oversize because if the tip and flutes are sized accurately (often not the case) if the lips are unequally sharpened, either for length or angle, the bit tends to run eccentrically (off center) thereby increasing the diameter of hole produced. Drill bits also cannot be depended on to produce an on-axis hole. My statement was: "Bore the stock to a close fit on whatever shank you wish to hold (do not drill, final cut should be by boring for accuracy in size and axial alignment, same provisos about close fit)." What I meant, if it wasn't clear, is that bulk removal of material is non- critical but when it comes down to producing precision in size and alignment there are some methods which more reliably produce good results. If you drill to size and are happy with the diameter and axial alignment of the hole there is no reason why you should do otherwise. If you haven't checked maybe you should. The only reason for my remark was to encourage good practice for reliability of bore size and alignment. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:13:27 -0400 From: "RD Burch" Subject: Re: new & ? [QUICK-CHANGE FOR A 618] Available from Village Press, 2779 Aero Park Drive, Traverse City, Michigan, 49684, is a book "MetalWorking-Book One". It is regularly advertised in the magazine "Home Shop Machinist". In this book is a description together with plans for a quick-change gearbox for the Atlas 6-18 lathe. The specific lathe is the model 3950, but may be adaptable to the others. A bill-of-material is provided and undimensioned drawings. I have studied this article for a while and actually started the project last Fall. I got as far as making the two shift levers before being side- tracked by buying a 5900 Clausing lathe and am not sure now if I am going to keep or sell the 6-18 lathe. You will probably never be able to sell the 6-18 lathe for your investment in a quick-change gearbox. Unless you can make the 24 gears yourself, be prepared to spend good money for gears from Browning. Over the years there are other versions published of a quick-change gearbox. ------- Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:32:53 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: restoring a 6" Craftsman lathe / Source of archived information > Hi Bruno. If you want to find that Atlas file (and 79 other > Atlas and machining/metalworking files) just > go to my site http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ Many thanks! This is a very nice repository of archived information. Now, if I could only figure out how to cull out what I want without spending all day reading. A project for another day... Bruno ------- Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 01:51:48 -0000 From: "George" Subject: Re: Compound rest slide for 618 Vince "ihc1965" wrote: > As I was going through my 618 lathe, I discovered that the top slide on the compound rest (part no. M6-303) is fractured. As soon as I removed it from the lower part of the compound, it came apart into three pieces. < When I got my lathe that had been broken off of it and someone had tried to weld it back togather , it lasted a little while then broke again. So I made one out of a piece of hotrolled steel (not sure what grade) and it works perfect!! It was easy to make! Just milled 4 sides to size and milled a slot in the bottom for the dovetail , and cut the dovetail, Then drilled the holes for the gib screws, leadscrew, and oiler (I used the one out of the old slide) and tapped the holes that neaded tapping. Then I was getting ready to cut the T slot and I got to thinking , I don't use the rocker toolpost anyway, so instead of a T slot I just found the center of that end and drilled and tapped a 1/2-20 hole for a hold down bolt! It works GREAT and without the T slot it is MUCH STRONGER than it would be with it!!! (The original had been broken in the T slot.) George Hunt ------- Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 18:25:34 EDT From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Compound rest slide for 618 when u find out the new price ,u may want to braze the old one ....it can usually be returned to same approx. tensile strength best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 16:03:28 -0400 From: David Beierl Subject: Re: Threading dial gear on 6" lathe At 11:37 AM 5/24/2003, ihc1965 wrote: >I just picked up a "parts" lathe at a swap meet for my 6" Craftsman >lathe and I noticed that the pinion on the end of the treading dial >is a different size than the one my own lathe. Does anyone know why >that is? The pinion on my lathe is about 1/4" in dia. and the one on >this other lathe is more like 1/2". The older sixteen-tooth gears (like mine) allow an ambiguity on some particular threading condition that makes it possible to engage wrongly even though the dial says it's correct. I forget the condition -- it's not one most people would meet every day but it's not all that rare either, I think. The 32-tooth gear resolves the ambiguity. David Beierl -- Providence RI USA ------- Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:48:46 EDT From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Removing half-nuts on 6" 101.21400 In a message dated Tue, 27 May 2003, Larry writes: << 3 unscrew the two large Allen head bolts it the carriage that << hold the apron on.4 drop apron as an assembly << (gently). If the apron is stuck, it's held in alignment by Wrong! On the 6" the carriage and apron are one piece. The most reasonable method is to slide the tailstock off the right end of the bed, then uninstall the leadscrew by removing its support bearings and sliding it out of the carriage to the right. Finally, slide the carriage assembly off the right end of the bed. You can then turn the carriage over and have easy access to the half nuts and you can actually see what you're doing. When you slide the carriage back on the bed check all the clearances. For vertical clearance there is a retainer at the front and at the rear to hold the carriage down to the bed. They have multi-layer shims. If there is too much clearance peel off the appropriate number of leaves from the shim. The correct clearance is just before tightening the retaining plates would bind up the carriage and the only way you're likely to figure this out is by getting to the point of binding, then putting one layer of shim back on. Do either the front or the rear completely first until you get that one right, then do the other one. Make certain that the carriage will traverse the entire length of the bed, if absolutely necessary accept a little extra clearance near the headstock. Then adjust the gib screws at the back of the carriage. You have a little more freedom with them, if you do mostly short items you may want to adjust the clearance to be right near the headstock and bind towards the tailstock. This will be okay because, when necessary, it's much easier to back off the gib adjustment than the keeper plates. At this point, besides having dealt with your half nut situation you will also have set the gib adjustments correctly. And while you're at it, why not adust the cross slide and compound gibs? Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 15:13:40 -0000 From: "speedphoto300" Subject: Re: Removing half-nuts on 6" 101.21400 Bruno You have to remove the whole thing, but it's not a big deal at all. Just take off the tailstock and the lead screw support at the tail end. Support the leadscrew and crank the saddle back until it runs off of the rack, then push it by hand until it comes off the bed. You will likely have to loosen the gib on the back of the saddle as well. If you need to replace the half nuts you might also have to replace the guide, there was a design change at some point and they increased the width of the half nuts, the ones they sell now won't fit the old guides. Joe ------- Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 01:29:18 -0000 From: "Chris" Subject: Re: Removing half-nuts on 6" 101.21400 Bruno, I think if you remove the tailstock, remove the two screws for the leadscrew bracket and slide the bracket off the leadscrew, then you can run the carriage down to the tailstock end handwheel until it gets past the feed rack (then the handwheel won't move the carriage anymore), then just slide it by hand about half way off the bed. Then take the two screws holding the half nut retainer, and remove the retainer and half nuts. When you get ready to go back together put the half nut and retainer back on, slide the carriage back on the bed, when the hand wheel pinion contacts the rack, you will have to wiggle the handwheel so the pinion will engage the rack, the use the handwheel to run the carriage back down the bed. then put the leadscrew bracket back on and the tailstock. I hope this helps. Chris. ------- Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 01:11:18 -0000 From: "knockbill" Subject: half nut epoxy By the way, I used JB weld on the half nuts & cleaned them with a Dremel wire wheel & Brakeclean,,, I oiled the screw & just allowed the detents to hold it all in place ... It set over night John ------- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:43:49 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Tool Holders for 6" Atlas > Can anyone tell me what the proper size tool holders are for an Atlas > 618 lathe? I see there are some that are 1/2x5/16, 3/4x5/16, 3/4x3/8 > and 7/8x3/8. Which size do I need? Are you talking about holders for a lantern tool post? They need to be able to fit into the tool post and adjust to center height. Most of mine are 5/16 wide, but one is 3/8. As for the height, some are 5/8 and some are 3/4. Measure your tool post. Bruno ------- Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:46:27 -0500 (CDT) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Carriage feed speeds... Had to change the gear train today, after threading a 24 pitch thread. It's a pain, and so I want to poll the members.... What carriage feed speed do you normally use on your lathe? And, the reason for your choice? Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:00:17 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Carriage feed speeds... I do threading of 36 TPI, and 36 TPI quadruple lead which means I have to set the gearing for 9 TPI. Between those two settings, my fingers get quite greasy so I minimize the changes. Other than for threading, I don't use the leadscrew for carriage feed; I actually feel better and more in control by manually moving it. Bruno ------- Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:43:07 EDT From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Carriage feed speeds... I keep the gear setup for the finest speed shown in the Atlas manual. For thread cutting you can get quite a few of the common threads by just changing one gear on the leadscrew and also there is a compound gear that you can just flip over to increase the range of threads without tearing down the whole gear train. The manual by Atlas has a lot more gear combinations than the chart posted on the guard cover. John LBSC Virginia LBSC Tich 200 some feet of 3.5 in ground level track ------- Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:26:04 -0000 From: "speedphoto300" Subject: Re: 618 cross feed question Marc & Marilynn wrote: > Is there a good way to mount a dial indicator to the cross > feed of a 618 lathe? Does anyone have an image of a mounted > indicator? The index marks are way too small for this old > man and reputedly one of the few weak points of this neat > little lathe. Thanks, Marc Nichols, > Age & Treachery Racing, Ltd. Grass Valley, CA As a youngster I used a neigbor's 618, he had replaced the cross feed dial with a larger one made of a white material like the stuff that Harding dials are made of. The lines and numbers were scratched or engraved and black filled. It wasn't a lot bigger (it can't be) but the contrast was better. Joe ------- Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:36:11 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: 618 cross feed question Marc, you got me thinking about how to solve this. What I have done is put a dial indicator on a Mighty Mag, which can attach to the back of the carriage and fit right between the two rightmost gib adjustments. By tilting it a bit, it can stay out of the way of the cross slide movement. This is nice because the indicator rides the carriage. That's half the problem. I need to make up a small clamp to fit onto the cross slide gear cover and provide a fixed point to the cross slide for the dial indicator to register against. When I get that part done, I'll take a picture. ------- NOTE TO FILE: Methods of attaching dial indicators to the cross slide have been commonly solved for the taigtools group at Yahoo. See their files and photo sections, and also visit some of the individual members' sites to get some great ideas on gadgets and methods for increasing the capabilities of small lathes; many links to Taig lathe users can be found through Nick Carter's site: http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html Lots of tips there to help the user of any size or brand of lathe. ------- Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 09:31:17 -0000 From: "Robert Weersing" Subject: Re: Bearing question on the 618 with tinken's In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Yoda" wrote: > Before I start tweaking I thought I might ask ... > Is the any way to tighten up the bearings ??? > I haven't used the lathe much .. but I have notice > a tiny bit of lateral play.If I chuck up a 6 or 7 inch rod .. > and lift up or down on the tailstock end > There is some movement ... Im thinking this isn't a good thing ... All you need to do is tighten the M6-32 collar on the left end of the spindle by loosening the set screw and turn the collar clockwise, just don't get it too tight. I tighten the collar just enough to take out the play and then run the lathe at high speed and check for heat around the bearings. good luck Bob ------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:14:54 -0700 From: "Jacques Le Clainche" Subject: 6" Craftsman lathe - pricing? I am new to this list and a would-be hobby machinist. I plan to learn how to use an amateur lathe, starting by making small steam engines. I also need to make a few firing pins, screws and other small parts for some antique guns I own. My neighbor has a small Craftsman lathe (model 101.21400) which he does not want any more, and has been unused for years. He offered to sell it to me, but does not know what would be a "fair price". The lathe is well used, but apart from storage damage (rusty 3 way chuck, broken cross slide handle and bent lead screw hand wheel), it seems OK. It comes with a milling attachment, some tool bits, and two tailstock centers. So, what should I offer? Any suggestions? Or, as a complete beginner, would I be better off buying a new lathe? Jacques Le Clainche in San Diego. ------- Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:18:35 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: 6" Craftsman lathe - pricing? I'd say you're looking at the $200-$300. You can look at ebay item 2543251771, which sold for $255 and looks like a comparable machine. The milling attachments go for over $200. If you don't need it, you could sell it to fund what you will need. Since you are planning to do threading, check whether he has any of the threading gears. Without those, you're looking at maybe another $100 to get a set. You're also (probably) going to need a tailstock chuck, which usually is with an old lathe. Good luck. ------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 23:45:47 EDT From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: 6" Craftsman lathe - pricing? Craftsman Atlas 6 inch lathe price should reflect condition and completeness. You have a machine that will no doubt require some reconditioning/rebuilding to achieve accurate work. First order of business is price...look at similar items on ebay and realize that is top gouge and shipping has to be factored in. If seller will accept less than $200 you can part it out and break even. If price is much over $300 you are getting into paying more for junker than a better machine might go for on ebay. Assuming you and seller agree on some figure then comes the fun part trying to understand and recondition a machine that will teach you as you work on it. Strongly suggest calling Clausing Atlas and ordering Owner's Manual, Parts Price List and Catalog (cost about $5.) Sound like something you would like doing? If so, you will find this lathe is capable of a range and accuracy of work that will please. Louis ------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:07:48 -0400 From: BRYAN PRENTICE Subject: Homemade power crossfeed I mentioned in an earlier post that I had a device for a power crossfeed. For those who may be interested, here are some details. None of the things that I design look 'store bought' unless there is a store that sells 'ugly'. I am more interested in how they work than in looks. Occasionally one of them surprises me by actually working. The power crossfeed that I built is one of those surprises. In past years I have 'pillaged' surplus stores, flea markets and auctions. I have picked up interesting items that I could not think of a use for. While spending hours manually facing off dozens of rods, the 'light bulb' went on. I 'mined' my 'treasure trove' and came up with small motor with integral gearhead, a variac to control its speed, a neat unit that had a magnetic clutch and also a flexible shaft about 16 inches long that I had been informed drove the tach generator on an aircraft engine. If these were coupled together end to end and the flexible shaft connected to the crossfeed leadscrew, I had it made. The 'business end' of the flexible shaft was .150 diameter with a longitudinal ridge along one side near the end.. I disassembled the crossfeed and chucked the crossfeed leadscrew and drilled a hole about 1 1/4" deep in the Acme thread end and a nice sliding fit for the flexible shaft. With a thin emery disk on a Dremel I cut a longitudinal slot in the end of the leadscrew the width of the ridge on the flexible shaft. Pushing the flexible shaft into this hole is all that was needed to connect it to the lead screw. It stays in by itself. This is the essence of the idea which for 15 years has worked nicely. The flexible shaft allows the carriage to move along the ways. When not switched on the crossfeed is worked manually in the usual way. When not using the unit the flexible shaft is just pulled out and parked out of the way and your crossfeed does not look like it is on life support. If making this today, for the motor and gearbox I would use a 1/4 inch electric drill. Crack open the drill and bring the leads if one of the coils out to a DPDT switch to control direction of rotation. For speed control use a dimmer switch (the one used to control room lighting by rotating a knob). Don't laugh. This is what I used on a tapping contraption that has tapped thousand of small holes. The magnetic clutch will pose a problem. I am sure the guys will have suggestions for a source. For the flexible shaft also, although I might try modifying a speedometer cable. It might just work For safety sake put on a limit switch on the crossfeed. I attached a small plunger switch to a bracket attached to the crossfeed. A small coil cord goes from it to the control box to stop things in case of 'inattention'. Now you can power crossfeed just like the 'big boys' can. As for looks, keep the contraption at the back of the lathe bench behind a picture of your favorite 'eye candy'. Happy crossfeeding, Bryan. ------- Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 06:38:27 -0400 From: Bepurr Subject: Power Crossfeed This is Bryan Prentice again but with a new 'moniker'. In my Aug.12 post I gave a 'broad brush' description of the power crossfeed unit that I built. There was a lot of detail not there. If there are any questions or comments or more details needed contact me off line at thebeepsx~xxsympatico.ca I will post anything pertinent on this site. As for the magnetic clutch. Herbach & Rademan (www.herbach.com)have item TM91MEC1852 at $3.50. It is 28VDC at 180 ohms. The constuction is good but no torque figures are given. American Science & Surplus (www.sciplus.com) have item 34051 at $7.50. 24 VDC at 1/4 amp. 75 in/lbs torque which should be adequate. The construction is weird and would take some ingenuity to connect but isn't that the name of the game. They also have a flexible cable 26048 at $1.00 I welcome any comments. Bryan ------- Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:48:48 EDT From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Digest Number 1589: power cross feed I made a power cross feed for my 6 inch Atlas (Purchased new when Atlas stopped production, but sold it in a moment of dumbness) What I did was to turn up two small drums about an inch or so in diam. drilled one for a screw to fit onto the right end of the lead screw which I had drilled and tapped. Fastened the drum with a machine screw and washer (to allow it to slip in case of disaster) Drilled the other one to fit the cross slide screw and cut the key way with a narrow file. Then screwed a pulley from an old set of bamboo curtains to the edge of my bench. When I needed a power cross feed to face larger items I simply wrapped a cord around the drum on the cross feed screw, ran the cord through the pulley then a couple of wraps around the lead screw drum and locked the cross slide in place and let the cord pull on the cross slide drum to turn the handle. Simple but it did work John in the high desert of California ------- Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:30:22 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: 618: Threading gear is hitting the cover With a threading setup that calls for the 64 tooth gear in the front position of the C location (8, 9 or 10 TPI), the side of the 64 tooth gear is just touching the gear cover door when the door is closed. When running the gears, I need to keep the door ajar. I suppose I could just grind down that small section of the gear cover. Anyone else with a 618 experienced this, or is it just mine? Anyone have a different solution before I remove the door. Bruno ------- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:41:33 EDT From: ibgolfrx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: 618: Threading gear is hitting the cover Bruno: Leave it open. I think they all hit. Eric ------- Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:14:52 -0400 From: Bepurr Subject: New Tailstock Clamping Bolt The bolt to clamp the tailstock to the bed is 3/8x16 tpi. A fair amount of rotation of the nut is required to clamp/unclamp the tailstock. After spending hours on some jobs that required the tailstock to be moved several times a minute this gets tedious. In a nutshell, what I did was to make a bolt and nut with 'double lead' threads. This requires less than 45 degrees of rotation to clamp/unclamp. A 'shorty' box end wrench sits and stays on the nut and acts as a lever. A 'twist of the wrist' is all that's needed to clamp/unclamp the tailstock. It's as handy as a second pocket on a shirt. Double lead means that instead of a single spiral thread, there are two threads spiralling side by side. A 3/8x16 single lead will advance the nut 1/16 inch for each 360 degrees of rotation. A double lead will advance the nut 1/8 inch and thus act as a 8 tpi thread although it retains a 16 tpi profile. I did this many years ago so the following is from memory. What I did was to mount a short piece of drill rod (alloy unknown) between centers using a dog and faceplate. Set change gears for 8 tpi. Determine depth of 16 tpi thread. With tool bit ground for 8 tpi clearance, cut one of the spirals a distance of about 2 inches. On the final pass, after the bit is about 1 inch along give the crossfeed just a 'nudge' in. Rotate the work, with dog attached, 180 degrees on the faceplate. Set the dials to the original settings and cut the second spiral (don't forget the 'nudge'). Remove the dog and chuck the piece and drill a 1/8 hole in the threaded end about inch deep. I heated the threaded to what I thought was the proper 'reddness' and quenched it in some fairly hot motor oil (smoke gets in your eyes). I then ground the end to what the profile of a starting tap looks like. I then heated the end to a straw color to draw some temper. With an abrasive disc in a Dremel tool I made what looked like the flutes of a tap. I had previously made a blank hex nut to fit a 5/8 inch box wrench. This was drilled somewhat oversized for a 3/8" thread (I wasn't going to push my luck). Then with patience, saying a prayer and burning the right incense, I used this 'tap' to make the threads in the nut. I then cut off the hardened end of the tap with the Dremel disc. I cut the rod the appropriate length and threaded the other end standard 3/8x16. I installed a square nut (filed to fit the groove in the Atlas clamp), Then crossdrilled that nut and rod and pinned it with a small rollpin. This made the head of the bolt. I now had a bolt and nut that were madly in love. They were made for each other. The 'nudge' mentioned earlier was to make the tap slightly oversized to the nut to allow some clearance. The 1/8 hole drilled in the end of the rod was to allow more even heating the end without having to heat the 'core'. My knowledge of heat-treating is practically nil so maybe some of the members can tell us how it really should be done. If you make one of these, I am sure that you will find it just as handy as I find the second pocket on my shirt. I am sure that in the past several people have made a similar item for this purpose or maybe I am the only lazy guy who owns an Atlas. Try it you'll like it Bryan ------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:31:55 -0500 (CDT) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: 618 leadscrew binding at chg gear brkt You wrote, "Anyone have trouble with the leadscrew binding by the change gear bracket. If I tighten the change gear bracket where the bracket doesn't move it binds the leadscrew. If I loosen the bracket where it doesn't bind the leadscrew it won't stay in place. Any ideas? Thanks Guys!! " Jeb, yep, have the same problem on my 6" A/C. I cleaned and degreased the bracket and the shoulder that it pivots on, and that helped. I still have to carefully adjust the nut, but there is a tension that lets the leadscrew turn freely and still have the bracket tight. Before you cut threads, make sure the bracket will not slip, and have the gear train disengage. Also make sure that the left leadscrew bearing is bolted to the bed securely. (this bearing being loose, can cause a change in the relationship of the tool to the work.) Make sure the leadscrew turns freely when the bracket is loose and not binding from a different cause. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:29:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Smith Subject: Re: Gunsmithing - need to adjust barrel shoulders I once made a steady rest for a 6" Atlas. I welded a .5" thick plate unto another, the bottom one fitting between the ways. I drilled a hole down thru them, and fitted a locking bolt and crosspc. I then welded a 2" long pc of 6" OD tubing, about 1/4" wall thickness, to the top plate. I drilled 3 equidistant holes in from the sides of the tube, drilled and tapped the holes for 3/8 fine thread bolts, with lock nuts. Then I silversolderd some brass chunk to the end of each of the bolts, and presto, had a steady rest. ------- Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:12:23 -0000 From: "pbpointman2000" Subject: Re: TS engineering QC toolpost (was ALORIS AXA) I purchased one of these several months ago and here are my findings: The first problem I had was that the aluminum t nut that came with it did not fit into the t slot on the compound slide. After trimming it on the lathe it fit fine. The second problem that I ran into was that the bolt the held the unit down to the compound was quite insufficient to hold the QCTP from rotating during cutting operations. The bolt barely went into the t nut, which is a softer metal, and would strip if I tried to crank it down tight. So, I drilled out the barrel of the QCTP to approximately 5/16" and got a bolt 5/16" x 3" and cut it to the maximum length. I then made a new t nut out of stainless steel. Drilled and tapped and assembled. This has stopped the problem. Total cost of retrofit about $4 and about 1 hr. of time. Well worth it. I hope this helps. Scott ------- Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:24:18 -0500 From: "Ebower" Subject: Re: QC for 6 inch Atlas > I see somebody on eBay selling a book with plans for a Quick Change > for an Atlas 6 inch. I was wondering if anyone is familiar with these > plans? Do they work? Is it a bad idea? I have had my lathe for 30 > years and have often wished for a QC.Thanks in advance. The set of plans looks very close to what was in Home Shop Machinist, Projects in Metal, and what was put into book form from Village Press. Whoever is selling them may have re-drawn them from the magazine articles. I saw these plans when they first come out (back in the 80's) and have all of them. This is not a first project for the lathe. I had checked and the set of gears alone for it would run into $250+ because they are not standard gears. The project would take (even if you worked on it 8 hours a day) would take a month or two to complete. You also have to modify your leadscrew and have to do other modifications to the lathe bed to mount it. There is a different mounting instruction for each of the lathes. I would not suggest starting it if you do not have a way of cutting your own gears. Earl Bower bower machine (Atlas, AA, Craftsman and South Bend accessories) www.bowermachineandtool.com ------- Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:50:59 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Smith Subject: Re: 6 inch steadyrest I made one 20 years ago, but it didn't hinge open. had to pull the tubing out of the end of it, along the ways. just welded a pc of thick walled, 5" tubing atop a cross pc, drilled a hole in cross pc, welded a bar across a pc for the bottom, so it would come up in between the ways, like the one on the tailstock does,intalled a bolt and nut. drilled and tapped 3 holes around the sides of the thick tube, installed long 3/8" bolts, with lockwashers and nuts. Brazed some hunks of brass onto the ends of the bolts, for "soft' contact with the workpc. ------- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 18:17:47 -0000 From: "jim010703" Subject: Re: bolting it down . . . --- In atlas618lathex~xxyahoogroups.com, "brodwidr" wrote: > I have a older style craftsman 6" lathe with the shorter straight > countershaft (like the one shown in the "Daves lathe" fotos posted in > the photos section of this group) rather than the higher curved unit > that arches backward over the motor. Could someone who has a > similar configuration be so kind as to tell me how far behind the > lathe the countershaft should be bolted down? I want to get the > tension correct on the drive belt. Thanks in advance. I have the same type of countershaft and am a little confused on how to set it up. Can anyone send me to a diagram or layout? ------- Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 00:17:29 -0000 From: "delong12001" Subject: RE: 101.07301 counter shaft under table Jim....... my counter shaft assy is the straight one. I used a 1/8" plate for the table top and welded a plate hanging straight down and bolted the countershaft base to it. The belt to the spindle runs straight up thru a hole in the top. The engage handle on the countershaft assy was lengthened and bent a little so it sticks out in front by the power switch (see photo). If you want, I'll take some more pics' of it and post them. Craig ------- Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 02:46:41 -0000 From: "delong12001" Subject: 6-18 Manual Jim........I just added the manual for the 6-18 in the files section. It shows the setup and parts for the lathe. The countershaft shown is the curved one though. For the under table setup , I used a NAPA 3L290W belt from c-shaft up to spindle. ------- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:58:23 -0000 From: "kendall" Subject: Re: bolting it down . . . In atlas618lathex~xxyahoogroups.com, "jim010703" wrote: > I have the same type of countershaft and am a little confused on how > to set it up. Can anyone send me to a diagram or layout? > In atlas618lathex~xxyahoogroups.com, "brodwidr" wrote: > > I have a older style craftsman 6" lathe with the shorter straight > > countershaft (like the one shown in the "Daves lathe" fotos posted in > > the photos section of this group) rather than the higher curved unit > > that arches backward over the motor. Could someone who has a > > similar configuration be so kind as to tell me how far behind the > > lathe the countershaft should be bolted down? I want to get the > > tension correct on the drive belt. Thanks in advance. Hopefully you've gotten it figured out by now, but the best way is to first back off the adjusting screws, then set the lever so as to tension the belt, pull the whole unit away from the lathe to place tension on the belt (basically running tension is what you want), align it so the belt is straight on the pulleys, mark the holes, move it, then drill and mount it. Use a bolt in the center hole, and screws/or bolts in the side holes to keep it from twisting. The unit is designed so the upper section leans towards the lathe when you release the lever easing up the tension. if the belt you have is long enough, and/or the motor is small enough, mounting the motor between the jackshaft and lathe helps release tension on the motor's belt at the same time, but I normally mount my motor behind the jackshaft on a hinged plate instead. It eats up bench room, but it's easy to change motor speeds. Also, it's the 'wrong' way as far as I know, but if you set it up so the screws are on the round part of the bar instead of one of the flats when tensioned, it makes it easier to change speeds by giving you a bit more slack. ------- Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:04:08 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: gears-618 crafstman "kendall" wrote: "... I come up with: 20 32 X 2 36 40 44 46 48 52 54 56 64 x 2 ..." You almost got them all. Missing is the 24 tooth gear. These gears, Change Gears, were supplied with the Craftsman 6" metal lathe made by Atlas. Also supplied are three spacers. These fit the keyed sleeves in place of gears in some gear train set-ups, with one always used on the lead screw. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:25:22 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: gears-618 crafstman Ken, if you are member of the atlas_craftsman group, you can just look under the "Files" section for the 618 thread chart. It's right up at the top. Also should be inside the gear cover door of your lathe, assuming you have an intact 618. Bruno ------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:37:39 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: gears-618 craftsman The 618 Gear Chart is contained in the complete 618 manual Craig uploaded as a pdf a few weeks ago (in atlas618lathe files section). It's good to know that there are other gear combinations possible to obtain a given thread other than the one factory suggestion on the chart. This makes it possible to do more threads with less than a "complete" gear set than the chart would indicate. Hank ------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:53:30 -0500 From: Nick Hull Subject: Re: Getting a little more swiing with a 618 >> Anybody have any idea of how high I can space a 618 headstock so >> that I can so some work slightly larger (6.6") on my little lathe? >> The work is going to be all near the chuck (its a lens holder) As a data point, I once lived on a remote island (Kwaj) and needed to true an oil filter lid about 3' across. The biggest lathe on the island was much smaller than that, but a clever machinist had mounted an extra headstock above the regular one to swing really big stuff. My lid cleared the ways by about an inch. We only needed to take off a few thou. ------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:24:04 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Loosing the tailstock ram lock nut Is it just me, or is it a common problem? The ram lock handle nut on the tailstock often works its way loose. I periodically find that if I brush my sleeve over it, it'll fall off. Bruno ------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:38:46 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Loosing the tailstock ram lock nut Bruno, you are not unique! I have the same problem. Makes one cuss when the bolt drops and "it's the devil" to get the thing back up. 8-) Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 04:04:39 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Loosing the tailstock ram lock nut After I drink my wine tonight, I'm going to take the cork and carve a square shape that I can stuff into the bottom where the screw falls out. If I put it in far enough, I'll bet it will keep the screw from falling down far enough to cause the handle to fall off. If, in the morning, it looks more like the Matterhorn, I'll make another tomorrow. Bruno ------- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:11:26 -0000 From: "n5fee" Subject: Atlas Gearsettes Does anybody have any details on the "Atlas Gearsettes" that were made for use on the Atlas 618 Lathe? I have a photocopy of a advertizement for these gearsets. They made six different gearsets that allowed quick changeover for threading by only changing the leadscrew gear. The gearsets were made to cover thread ranges from 6 to 64 threads per inch in six different ranges. A range would cover say from 6 thru 16 tpi. To setup for any value in this range, you would read which leadscrew gear to install from a metal disk attached to the gearset. I am just currious how many teeth on each gear and if there is any advantage to this scheme. Dallas Shell Atlas 618 Craftsman 101.213 South Bend 9 ------- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:41:35 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Atlas Gearsettes I don't know how they are made, or how well they'd hold up vs. the standard gears. While they can save some effort in changing gears, I can't see it being all that quick. You don't have to swap gears on the bushings, but you do have to set them on the bracket and align them (although you save aligning the A to C gears). I do two basic threads -- 9 and 36 TPI, so I just got an extra set of bushings so my A and C position setups are always handy. If I had four more sets of bushings, I could fully replicate what the Gearsets do. By the way, there was a complete new set of the 6 gearsets on ebay recently (#2589687482) and they only went for about $82. Far less than the $600 or so that Clausing wants. I could not believe they went so low, especially since a full set of loose gears would often go for twice that. Bruno ------- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:02:39 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Atlas Gearsettes I think they are similar to what I have done at times. On some threads that I use the most, I keep a set of gears on the keyed bushings so I can just change from say 20 TPI to 40 TPI without changing every gear, just the lead screw gear. But then when you are doing fine feeds all bets are off. ------- Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 05:37:08 -0000 From: "n5fee" Subject: Atlas 618 and Craftsman 101.214 Refurbishment Atlas 618 and Craftsman 101.214 Refurbishment. Since I mentioned my just finishing rebuilding both of my lathes, I have had several people express interest both on and off of the list for more information. Both of my lathes are identical. I understand some versions were slightly different, but mine are exactly the same. Both have Timkin bearings in the head stock. I have owned the Craftsman lathe for about 25 years. When I bought it, it had been used in the tool room of a large aerospace firm and was pretty well worn out 25 years ago. I have used it quite a lot since then and it was really worn badly when I started the rework. I traded some work for the Atlas 618 a couple of years ago. It had been used in a motor rewinding shop and showed a lot of wear as well. It also had the mica undercutting attachment which I refurbished along with the lathe. Since I had just gotten the 618, I decided to try rebuilding it first and then if all went well do the Craftsman next. After doing the first one, the second was just a carbon copy not counting differences in missing parts that had to be made or ordered. I will describe the steps and lessons learned on the rebuild process on one lathe with all steps repeated on the second. Since the lathe was worn badly near the headstock, it would definitely need to be ground true. After disassembling the lathe and making measurements there was heavy wear in the thickness of the ways near the headstock where the saddle ran most of the time. There was also wear in the width of the ways in this area near the headstock. The tail stock had worn the inside top portions of the ways near the tail where the tailstock ran most of the time. There was very little wear on the inside vertical surfaces of the ways. So, the ways would have to be ground on the top and outside surfaces at a minimum. I could not tell exactly how much wear was on the underside of the ways, I would have to wait until the tops were ground to measure this. After grinding the tops and measuring, there was also wear underneath, so this surface would have to be dealt with as well. A friend of mine has a large surface grinder. He did the grinding for me. I will describe what he told me he did. First the bed was turned upside down with the ways touching the grinder table and the surface where the feet bolt pointed toward the grinder. He used the unworn surfaces under the headstock and the unworn surfaces near the tail end of the bed as reference planes. With these reference planes touching the magnetic table, he inserted lots of shims all around the bed to provide lots of support. Each shim point was adjusted to provide contact between the chuck surface and the way. The axis of the bed was indicated in to be parallel to the grinder path at the same time. After shimming everywhere, the chuck was turned on which held the bed down. A light cut was taken over the areas where the feet attach. This was done until the feet mounting surface were all true. Then the grinding wheel was lowered and light cuts were made on the underneath sides of the ways on both front and back ways. Wear here was light, so not much was taken off, but it was ground true. Next the bed was turned over and now the foot pads rested on the magnetic chuck. The bed was again made parallel to the grinder travel path. The chuck was energized and small jacks were placed under the bed near the center for additional support. The top surface of the ways were ground true. Next the grinder was lowered and each outside surface of the way was ground. This is the vertical surfaces that would have the gib of the carriage riding on it. The inside vertical surfaces were not ground. They did not have much wear, and the registration of the headstock depends on these surfaces, so they were left alone. After knocking off the sharp edges with a hand file the bed was complete. I thought having the bed true the carriage would fit ok. This was completly wrong as shown by a little prussian blue. I tried to scrape the carriage by hand, but gave up and sent the carriage to be ground. The carriage was placed on the surface grinder resting on the crosslide dovetail surface. Other parts of the carriage were shimmed up for support and the carriage indicated for parallel alignment with the grinder path. The surface that normally touches the ways were ground true (both horizontal and vertical). The carriage was returned to me and I quickly discovered that I could not adjust the shims on carriage for a proper fit because so much material had been removed from the ways and carriage that the place where the shims should fit needed to be ground. I sent the carriage back to the grinder. The surface where the carriage shims fit was ground an amount equal to what was removed from the top of the way plus what was removed from the bottom of the way plus what was removed from the underside of the carriage. In both my lathes this turned out to be about 0.050 inch. After this the carriage adjusted and fit perfectly across the entire length of the bed. This fit was absolutely great and I can't believe it could be any better. Now I turned my attention to a couple of places that had to be fixed. The first was the gearbox that drives the carriage along the horizontal rack. Before buying a new gearbox, I decided to try and repair the old one. I pressed the gear off of the gear shaft combination to get access to the worn shaft hole in the aluminum casting. This casting was chucked up in another lathe with a 4 jaw chuck. I centered the casting on the parts of the hole that were worn the least using a dial indicator. I carefully bored this hole using a very tiny boring bar made by grinding a piece of 1/4 tool steel. I bored the casting to accept a light press fit piece of brass tubing to be used as a bushing. This brass tubing is avaliable at hobby shops and hardware stores. It is avaliable in lots of concentric sizes that will nest inside of each other. I keep a lot of this on hand for just this type of use. I selected a piece that was 3/8 ID. This was a perfect fit for the gear shaft. I measured the OD of the tube and bored the gearbox casting to allow a light press fit. I installed the bushing, trimmed the excess with a jeweler's saw and finished with a hand file. After drilling the oil hole thru the bushing and assembling the gears back together, nearly all of the slop was removed. The second area that needed work was the hole thru the carriage where the handwheel shaft passes. This hole was extremely worn and very sloppy. I drilled this hole out by hand using successive drills until I had cleaned up the bore pretty well. There is not a lot of extra meat here, so I took the minimum amount off. I then bought an oilite bushing at the hardware store that was 3/8 ID and 1/2 OD. While I was at the store, I selected a 3/8 roll pin about 3 inches long. I carefully looked thru the spring pins until I found one that was nice and smooth and would just start in the bushing by hand. I chucked the roll pin in the lathe, started the bushing on the roll pin, and brought the tailstock live center up inside the bushing and applied enough pressure to center the bushing and hold it tight. I then turned the bushing down on the outside for a light fit inside the hole I had just bored for the handwheel shaft. I pressed this bushing in the hole and let just enough protrude thru on the inside to take up a little of the wear the pinion gear had made in the carriage casting. The bushing was trimmed off on the outside and the oil hole drilled. After assembling the carriage with handwheel and gearbox. The rack was installed on the bed and the carriage installed. At this time the next problem showed up. Because of the thinner ways and thinner carriage, the gearbox did not mesh well with the rack. There was too much backlash. I toyed with several different fixes for this problem. I tried taking one of the gearbox locating pins out and canting the gearbox, I thought about making a larger gear. I finally moved the rack down by 0.050 inch. I did this by installing shims, shifting the rack about 1/4 inch to the left and drilling and tapping new mounting holes. To maintain the hole locations, I clamped the rack in position with the shims installed moving it down .050. I turned a drill guide bushing that would just slip thru the existing holes in the rack. I then drilled pilot holes in the bed. I then enlarged these holes and tapped each one thru. After installing the rack in its new position, it worked perfectly. The next problem cropped up when I installed the leadscrew and half nut assembly. On engaging the half nuts, the lead screw was deflected down for the same reason the rack did not work. The lead screw mounting bearings needed to move down some. Luckily there was enough slop in the lead screw mounting brackets to take care of this problem and no modification was needed. Elongating the holes in the lead screw bearing caps would fix this problem if needed. So after working thru these problems, I had a perfectly fitting lathe that felt new. I did order a few parts for the lathes from Clausing and I have posted several new sheets to the files area with current prices and a current accessories catalog. I did learn a few thing from my parts order that I will pass along. First I ordered a new wrench M6-115. I have one that is cast iron has an open end wrench on one end that fits the tailstock and a closed square hole on the other end that fits the lantern tool post, the carriage lock bolt and the thread dial bolt. The new wrench is a waste of time. It is not cast, but stamped and the way it is made, the square hole is unusable. Save your $17 and just buy an end wrench. Second, I ordered a new square head bolt M6-177 (the same square head the original wrench fits.) The bolts that they sent are just run of the mill hex headed bolts. Neither the original wrench nor the stamped replacement wrench will fit these bolts. If you need this square head bolt, just make one from a piece of key stock. Third, I needed a carriage chip guard M6-37. The part they have now is just a piece of sheet metal bent up with a hole drilled in it. It is only $1.00 so I can't complain too much. Fourth, I needed a couple of jam nuts for the cross slide gib adjusting bolts. The ones they sent are just plain old hex nuts. The flats are a different size than the original and they did not have the small shoulder on them. If you need these nuts, just buy regular nuts and hand file the flats to make them match the originals. Fifth, I ordered new nuts for the tailstock clamp. Both of mine have been partially rounded off. The nuts they use now are just plain hex nuts. Again the flats are different size and even the new wrench they sell does not fit the nuts they sell for the tailstock. If you need this tailstock lockdown nut, make your own so it will fit your wrench. Everything else I ordered was fine, and I am not complaining, I am just trying to give everybody a heads up on the parts situation. I hope the above information gives everybody who is doing a rework some ideas. Dallas Shell ------- NOTE TO FILE: See another message in May 2004 by Dallas with advice on repairing 618 ball handles and fixing a broken rack. The message was placed into "Atlas Parts General" as it could be useful for any owner. ------- Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:19:06 -0000 From: "kendall" Subject: Re: work holding 4inch round... [in 6" lathe] In atlas618lathex~xxyahoogroups.com, "davidzerocool69" wrote: > i am making a part that is approx 4-5 inches long by 3.5 inches > around... (out of the 4 inch round stock - 6 inches long).... > the only photos that i see in my manual for using the faceplate seem > to be with smaller pieces and then dogged off and wrapped with leather > i was mainly wondering if it was a good idea to bolt something to > the faceplate??? > or if i was just missing something as to how to attach large rounds > to the lathe.... > at 2.25 inch rounds i was almost hitting the ways with the bits > extending from the 4jaw chuck..(perhaps i should have reversed them?) > hope im not clouding the question, but i cant really find much info > on just HOW to hold work... thanks, david bolting parts to the faceplate is acceptable, but at 6" you will need tailstock support. if you have centers, and don't have/can't use dogs, drill a small hole in the faceplate end to take a drive pin that will hook into one of the slots/holes on the faceplate, (bolt and nut on faceplate) For most work holding, what is critical is that the part is held securely,and that you are able to work on the part, for the most part whatever works is the right way. in case of a production part, you also have to have easy repeatability. if you have to trial fit parts, between centers is the way to go. I have a few distributor hold down clamps for old ford 302's that I use a lot for holding smaller parts to the faceplate, and also on the micro-mill, when I have small flat parts to work on, almost anything goes, I know some people who have faceplates covered with formica, and glue parts to the faceplate for machining, others use epoxy, and remove the parts with heat when finished. a rough rule for the chuck size is roughly 1/2 to 2/3s the swing of your lathe will give you the best size range you can use easily, a larger chuck generally has more meat between the grip area, and the outer end of the jaw, so you can end up hitting the carriage or ways with a smaller part in a larger chuck, placing the 'steps' inside will nearly always give you more room between jaw and carriage or way, but will need tail support sooner, because of the shorter grip section. ken ------- Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:53:15 -0500 From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: work holding 4inch round... David, you wrote " i am making a part that is approx 4-5 inches long by 3.5 inches around... (out of the 4 inch round stock - 6 inches long)." This job presents some problems on a 6" swing lathe. On the A/C 6", there is less than 2" clearance over the cross slide of the carriage (even with the cross feed screw cover removed). So, trying to swing 4" between centers is out, if you have the carriage in it's normal place. I have turned a 4" steel "doughnut" (for a steady rest) that is 3/4" long. This is pushing the capacity of a 6" lathe to it's limit. You have to "rig" the cutting tool outboard to turn the outer edge. (not easy to do, or real good for the lathe) If you must attempt to turn the 4" down to 3.5" over 4 to 5 inches, here is how I would try it... Find the center on one end of the stock. Center drill the end. (don't drill too deep, as you have limited tailstock ram travel, and you will have to use it all) Mount the other end in a 3 or 4 jaw chuck, using the "inner stepped holding jaws". (make sure the jaws will not strike the lathe bed) Using a dial indicator, try to match the run out of the chuck end to the run out of the tailstock end. The carriage will be positioned behind the stock. Bring the tail stock up to the carriage, and extend the ram so the center enters the center hole of the stock. (lube the center and lock the tail stock and ram) Rotate the compound rest so it is parallel to the bed. Mount a tool bit so it will clear the stock. You will have to use the compound slide feed to take your cuts. Use the back gears to slow the rotation of the stock. (make sure you lube the two locations, when you do) Loosen the drive belts, so they will slip if the tool jams. This will help protect the lathe. Lock down the carriage. (disengage the lead screw {move shift to neutral} to prevent any unfortunate accidents) Move the tool into the stock, using the cross slide feed. Take small cuts, as you are taxing your lathe to it's limit. The length of cut will be limited to compound slide travel. Continue to take cuts until the carriage will slide under the work. Move the carriage under the stock and lock the carriage down again. Use the compound to feed again, repeating the process until you have turned down the whole length. (up to the jaws of the chuck) Now, you can use the carriage to feed the tool to finish the job. Facing off the ends will be the last operation. If you get that far, post again. Good luck! Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:49:58 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Anyone cut 4 TPI threads on a 618? The chart only goes down to 8 TPI, but has anyone here figured a gearing setup to cut 4 TPI? TIA, Bruno ------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:20:09 -0700 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Anyone cut 4 TPI threads on a 618? Just do a reverse drive on a pair of gears for the 1:2 increase in speed. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:04:09 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Anyone cut 4 TPI threads on a 618? While that was the gist of what I want to do, I'm having trouble determining what I can actually do given the gears available for the machine (even with extra gears). Old story: A guy had one of those puzzles of a metal structure with a looped string twisting through it and the puzzle was to remove the string. He took it to his math professor at CalTech and said "take the string off". The professor looked at it and said "topologically, on and off are equivalent", and was satisfied he'd solved the puzzle. Bruno ------- Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 23:13:10 -0000 From: "n5fee" Subject: Re: Anyone cut 4 TPI threads on a 618? Bruno, download the file I posted in the files section at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/files/Thread %20Gear%20Programs/ [no line break in address] This is a general program to calculate any tpi you want. If you are missing gears, just modify the setup to only allow the gears you have on hand. It will select the closest match for what you have and tell you the error using the particular setup. It is much easier than trying to do it by hand. Dallas Shell ------- Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:07:19 -0500 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Anyone cut 4 TPI threads on a 618? The trick of doubling a drive gear in the 8 tpi train will work. One problem is that the multiplication ratio to the leadscrew starts to get significant. Cutting 4 tpi with your 16 tpi screw is like cutting 2 tpi for a larger machine. That puts quite the strain on the various parts, since with coarse threads, one tends to have quite a bit of feed force. A solution to that is to drive the leadscrew, and let the gear train drive the spindle. That is a speed reduction, and paradoxically puts less strain on gears and other things. You can either crank the leadscrew, or kludge on some sort of pulley drive. Jerrold ------- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:23:57 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Anyone cut 4 TPI threads on a 618? OK, here's my conclusion to the attempt to cut a 4 tpi thread on the 618. I ended up with a 64 back, spacer front in the A position; a 20 back and 52 front in the C position and a 20 on the leadscrew. This is not exactly 4 TPI. It would be if I had a 50 tooth gear instead of 52, so I have a bit less than 4 TPI. I could also use a 48 tooth for a bit more than 4 TPI. Fact is, I'm trying to do a cable twist pattern, so it was not necessary to be precise anyway. At least now I have something close. I also took heed of Jerrold's advice. Previously, I'd made a hand crank to do all my threading. It slips into the back of the spindle and tightens using an expanding mandrel. With the forces Jerrold mentioned, the crank was slipping. Well, a new solution presented itself. I had recently parted out another 618 with a slightly incomplete tailstock. I took the hand crank from that tailstock and found that with a simple 1/4"-20 x 1 1/4" bolt, I could just screw it right onto the left end of the leadscrew after installing the 20 tooth gear there. Works perfectly!! I'll machine a collar for a cleaner fit, but now I'll use that for all my threading. Bruno ------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:55:16 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Removing leadscrew on 618? How does one remove the leadscrew from the left end bearing and gear bracket? I've removed the leadscrew from the lathe, the leadscrew gear and the key. What I'm left with is the collar with a pin in it, the gear bracket, the bearing and the collar with a setscrew to the right of the bearing. I've been able to loosen up that collar on the right but it binds up trying to slide it over the leadscrew threads and I don't want to force it (yet). Feels like there is a burr in the inside of the collar. Is the collar with the pin removable? or should that stay where it is? Thanks, Bruno ------- Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:11:58 -0500 From: Mark Austin Subject: Re: Removing leadscrew on 618? Bruno, I had the same problem. The set screw in the collar galls up the lead screw shaft preventing the collar from sliding easily. I worked the collar loose and then filed down the high spots. As an alternative you could cut the collar apart with a Dremel. Yes the collar with the pin can be removed. Carefully pound out the pin out of the collar. I expect the lead screw was designed this way so the collar could be replaced when worn, and to use cheaper 1/2" shafting. Good luck. Mark ------- Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:25:02 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re: Chuck diameter for Atlas Craftsman 6" lathe. >I believe 4" is common for the chucks, but if it fits it's usable. I recently acquired a 10100 (square head). It came with a 6" three jaw. That chuck is to big. You only end with about 1/2 the jaw travel because as soon as they start sticking out of the chuck, they will hit the ways. Also, it is almost impossible to mount or dismount it without banging the ways. Bigger isn't always better. I ended up going over to my Taig yesterday to finish a 1 5/8" diameter piece. I couldn't get a hold on it in the 6", and the little 3" on the Taig worked quite well. Don ------- IMPORTANT NOTE TO FILE: BRUNO'S COMPREHENSIVE THREADING GEAR SETUPS FOR THE 6" LATHE A conversation in October 2004 about threading led to Bruno kindly providing a much more comprehensive threading chart than found in prior references. There were several updates and corrections. Following Bruno's original 2004 posting, there were several messages that provide pertinent information about using the Atlas 6 inch and getting good threads. Before you read the old 2004 messages, please take note that Bruno completely updated the chart in December 2011 to only include verified setups. A copy of that message is included here for your convenience. Here are Bruno's 2011 comments: "New gearing chart Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com azbruno Date: Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:12 am ((PST)) Hi All, I've updated my old chart for change gears. The new one is in the Files section as "/metal/Atlas_618_Change_Gear_Charts.pdf". Basically, I removed the obscure entries because they were calculated, but not necessarily verified. I also put in a few notes about using English threads for metric. For example, it's possible to use 36 TPI for a .70mm thread for short distances as the accuracy is about 1/125. -Bruno" From 2004 my Gems text file also contained Bruno's charts, with his kind permission, as a service to readers here. His 2011 charts in PDF format are so good and so much easier to read and use than would be possible in this text file that the data has not been copied here. You should proceed directly to the atlas618lathe group's file section and download Bruno's current PDF file. PDF files print very easily. IF YOU NEED MORE THREADING SETUPS, I strongly suggest: a. you consult atlas618lathe group's latest threading file(s); AND b. you verify any thread setup you read (here, or there, or in any book) on scrap material first. Remember President Reagan's brilliant philosophy: "Trust, but verify." IMPORTANT NOTE TO FILE ENDS. ------- Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:11:19 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: more 101 MK2 "gearsettes" questions [atlas_craftsman group] --- In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Reg Tulk" wrote: > OK, so while not made of unobtanium, they are rather expensive. I > suppose I could just buy them as they are needed. > Several of you mentioned about "I just use the change gears" - can > someone direct me to a better explanation of this? Are the > "gearsettes" just some sort of easier way to use gears without > having to do all the math? Can I just use change gears and if so > what are the models or part numbers or whatever for the gears? Reg, the information you need is just to your left. That is, follow the "Files" link for this group. There is a link to the thread gear chart for the 6" lathes right near the top. It's the same chart that's located inside the gear cover on the lathe (which I believe you don't yet own). Also, follow the Operation and Parts Manuals for a copy of the 618 manual as well as a doc on the gearsets. As for the threading gears... look at the chart to see what I'm referring to. There are three positions for the threading gears called A, B and C. You will have one or two gears on a bushing and spindle on either A or B, and the same on C. You'll also have a gear attached to the left end of the leadscrew. These gears, along with the fixed tumbler gears, will control the rate and direction at which the leadscrew turns relative to the spindle. The result will either be used for threading or longitudinal feed. The "gearsettes" are basically fixed units that replace the A, B and C position gears, but not the leadscrew gear. They provide less range on threading but a few more longitudinal feeds. I've taken the approach of acquiring a few more spindles and bushings for the A, B, C positions so I can have them preloaded as it were. I've also had to get some extra gears, particularly 64, 32, 20. Also, with extra gears, there are other possibilities in addition to what's on the chart. For example, the chart specifies a 32 TPI thread to use a 64 tooth gear on the leadscrew and a 64 tooth idler gear on the B position. I found it also can be done with a 32 on the leadscrew, 32 idler on C and 64 idler on A. This is important because I also do 36 TPI threads and then I can switch between the two with just a change of the leadscrew gear. Of course, this requires one more 32 tooth gear than the lathes originally came with, hence the exclusion from the chart. I've made an expanded thread chart for the 618 that ranges from 5 to 128 TPI and includes more choices for existing TPI settings as well. I have not yet tested all the additional combinations for fit, but I suspect most, if not all, will work. I'll post it if there's interest. Hope this helps. Bruno ------- Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:43:45 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Atlas 618 expanded thread chart posted. I've posted my expanded threading charts for the 618 on the atlas618lathe group Files section. I'd have posted it here, but there's no more room. Any comments or corrections would be appreciated. Regards, Bruno ------- Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:01:16 EDT From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Expanded thread chart posted to files section. In a message dated Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Louis Balleweg writes: << That chart is really good. It is something I started to do but haven't finished. Now I won't have to. One suggestion that might improve it: I feel that the Atlas format is somewhat backward. For me, it would be more logical to start with the Spindle Stud on the left side of the chart and work toward the Leadscrew on the right. Especially since the positions of the gears are labeled alphabetically, starting from the left in the Atlas diagram. >> Actually there is a good reason for the original layout of the Atlas change gear charts. When setting up a gear train, since the position of the screw gear is fixed, the logical sequence of installation is: Screw gear First intermediate stud gear (closest to screw gear) Second intermediate stud gear (2nd away from screw gear) (Etc. for any other intermediate stud gears) Swing gear carrier up to engage appropriate tumbler reverse gear The sequence I cite above allows you to install a gear and set the clearance, then install the next gear and set the clearance, continuing until you set the clearance to the tumbler reverse gear. Any other sequence of installing the gears means you are constantly repositioning the gears on the gear carrier. To illustrate, let me work through the first example on the Atlas 6" Threading Chart, 8 TPI: Screw Gear 32F (F indicates "Front" or closer to the installer when standing at the left end of the headstock looking squarely at the gears). So install spacer at the "B" position ("Back" or closer to the headstock, away from the installer), then install 32, then washer and nut. Position "C" calls for 32B and 64 F. Install bushing on stud, install 32 on bushing, install 64 on bushing, then washer and nut. Install assembled stud on gear carrier and adjust clearance between 32 screw gear and 64 stud gear, then tighten nut. Position "A" calls for 64B and Spacer F. Install bushing on stud, install 64 on bushing, install spacer on bushing, then washer and nut. Install assembled stud on gear carrier and adjust clearance between "C" 64 and "A" 64, then tighten nut. Swing gear carrier up to engage "A" 64 with 32 tumbler gear and adjust clearance, then lock position of gear carrier. So the Atlas chart, when read from left to right, tells you exactly the sequence for setting the gears. (The sequence you suggest makes it easier to visualize the power transfer from spindle to leadscrew but it shouldn't be too difficult to learn to read the Atlas-style chart from right to left to get the visualization.) Hope this is constructive. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:37:41 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:more 101 MK2 "gearsettes" questions [atlas618lathe group] At 09:41 AM 10/14/2004 +0000, you wrote: >I think the "gearsettes" you are referring to are really just a set >of gears that came with the lathe when it was new. No, they are sets of gears made to make changing easier. The full set is six clusters of gears. Each set covers a range of threads/feeds. However, you have to change the screw gear, so it doesn't eliminate getting greasy or having to have a selection of change gears. The gears are still available from Clausing A full set of six Gearsettes is going to cost $682.67 in the last price list. The change gears are also still available, and they are interchangeable between the Mk1 and Mk2. A full set has 14 gears 20, 24, 32 qty 2, 36, 40, 44, 46, 48, 52, 54, 56, and 64 qty 2. You also need a couple bushings and spacers to complete the train. From the sound of your note, you probably have six of the set already. Buying the missing gears to fill out your set would be the way to go. Don ------- Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:29:38 EDT From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: more 101 MK2 "gearsettes" questions In a message dated Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Reg Tulk writes: << Several of you mentioned about "I just use the change gears" - can someone direct me to a better explanation of this? >> Individual gear changed out by reinstalling them by hand based on a table is the traditional way of regearing the leadscrew to cut different pitches or feeds. << Are the "gearsettes" just some sort of easier way to use gears without having to do all the math? >> The "gearsets" are, essentially, the multipliers that go on the center change gear stud to give 2:1, 4:1, etc. times a smaller TPI count. Besides being premade as the multiplier, and slightly cleaner to work with, they also have the screw gear value printed on them for several pitches (the one that goes on the leadscrew which, also by the way, you need to reinstall by hand). << Can I just use change gears --- (?) >> That is the more reasonable approach. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- NOTE TO FILE: So ends the Oct 2004 section dealing with the 6" lathe's threading charts, and a few related threading messages from the same conversation. Note also that there are many other messages later in this Gems file that include threading ideas. Also see the "Threading" text file on the home page http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ for lots of tips that can be used on the Atlas/Craftsman/Acorn family, or other threading lathes, or using taps and dies manually. ------- Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:10:00 -0000 From: "john111101" Subject: Re: Is this decent price for a 6x18 Craftsman? > They seem to be going pretty high these days Hello Guys, I decided to take off from work early and make the drive to check out this machine. Left at noon, and didn't come back until four AM. Am I glad I did. What a pristinely restored unit. This guy was a true craftsman. Re-ground bed, blued and dovetailed the cross slides as required. Checked the bearing bore, wasn't happy, and rebored it. Etc,etc. All with photo documentation! It came with a steadyrest, a follow rest, live and dead centers, carriage stop, boring bar, faceplate, change gears, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, drawbar and collets for milling bits, milling bits, lathe bits, extra parts, and the original manual and other paperwork, along with quite a few other items. I felt embarassed offering him too little, seeing the time into this project. Settled on $950. VERY happy. If anyone can, I've got pictures of the restoration and the final product, which I'd send return postage prepaid, if they could scan them in for me so others can see what I'm talking about. Thanks to all who replied, and looking forward to a fun winter spinning! John Richardson ------- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:03:40 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Change Gears ? In a message dated 11/4/2004, SimonRx~xxAOL.com writes: > Can anyone tell me the spec. (Module/DP/width etc.) of the change > gears for threading on the 6" (old style) please ? My lathe has lost > it's set sometime :( 24 pitch , 14 1/2 pressure angle, NOT 20 deg. ....ebay is best bet for purchase if unable to fabricate ur own ...although clausing corp. has SOME gears at reasonable prices... $ 10 +/- ea. ...u can buy a dividing head from enco ( $245 ) for abt 2 x what a set will cost u best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:12:13 -0500 From: "Bill Hardin" Subject: RE: Change Gears ? I have gears for your lathe on sale on my web site. The only other source has been supplied to you, Clausing. If you want the spec to make your own, let me know. Bill Hardin http://www.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman 109 Lathe Support [Note: Sears 109 lathe (made by AA) change gears are the only 109 parts that can be used on Atlas 618 aka Sears/Atlas 101 lathes.] ------- Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:43:53 -0500 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: A really interesting lathe... Bruno wrote: >>> There's a really cool Atlas/Craftsman 618 lathe on ebay. It's interesting to see how they've used a DC motor for the lathe and another smaller setup to power the leadscrew from the right end for longitudinal feed. I'd really like to do such a setup. Anyone done something like this before? <<< Hi Bruno, there have been several references to modifying the 618 leadscrew for various purposes. In the following two instances, extending the right end of the leadscrew involved chucking the leadscrew in another lathe to get the extension perfectly centered. Resourceful machinists without access to another lathe could make a drill centering guide to achieve the same objective. HSM Nov/Dec 1996 has an article "Get a Handle on Your Lathe" by John Gascoyne to get fine feed without using the lathe's power. His new manual handle is the same one as used on the normal tailstock and was obtained from Clausing (Cat. # 3950-20 or old M6-23). The handle is attached to a short extension added to the right end of the leadscrew. This addition is not too difficult, but it is not trivial either. The complexity is created by using a handle that needs a keyway and key. It takes him two pages to describe exactly how he did it. Of course the half nuts have to be engaged to make the carriage move. This hand crank mod can also be used with the gears engaged to do power-off threading with no danger of crashing when cutting towards the headstock. Even if normal main power threading is done, the user has the option of disconnecting the half nuts early, turning off the main motor, re-engaging the half nuts, and then using the hand crank to sneak up to the end of the thread. I see also that Modeltec magazine had a three part article starting July 1997 written by Douglas van Veelen in which he modified a 618 for CNC operation. This mod also required the right end of the feedscrew to be extended. His extension method was comparatively simple, drilling a 0.248" hole centred in the right end and fixing a 0.25" rod into it. He then attached a gear to this rod that led to a stepper motor. For those wanting a manual crank, it would be easy to create a flat on such a rod and add a homemade handle with setscrew into the flat. For those wanting to power the right end of the leadscrew (but not CNC), it would be easy enough to attach a variable speed cordless/corded screwdriver to the rod. Naturally any such auxiliary power device would have to be removed or disconnected before using the lathe motor to power the carriage. Careful! Even the handcrank would present a danger as it will turn while the leadscrew turns under main gearing power. It would be wise to remove the handcrank or cover it with a safety guard while not being used. HTH. Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 03:01:48 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: A really interesting lathe... Thanks, Steve. Being that I've only had the lathe for less than 2 years, there's a lot to discover in how others have modified theirs. What I really liked about the lathe on ebay is how they set up the speed dials and integrated everything together so it looks very easy to operate. I've been doing threading under hand cranking power by using a handle that I stick into the back of the spindle (expanding mandrel). But I also discovered recently that the M6-23 crank handle will fit very easily onto the left end of the leadscrew. Is this useful? It is when gearing down to under 4 TPI -- by applying the power to that end of the gear train, it works. Now what I would really like to do is enable some decent automatic longitudinal feed without having to affect the gearing that is already set up for threading. That's why I was intrigued by running it off the right end of the leadscrew. But then again, that would still be running the gears (although not enabled to the spindle). Maybe I'll look into running a power feed to the carriage crank to avoid the leadscrew and half-nuts in the loop. Just thinking... Bruno ------- Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:08:26 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Hand crank on lead screw > someone added a crank handle to the right end of the lead screw. I did that and incorporated a drum on the right end of the lead screw. At the same time I put graduations on the crank/drum set up. Was handy and part of my "power cross feed" lash-up. I replaced the crank on the cross slide with a drum also (along with a much larger dial and better markings) and to make a power feed facing cut I wrapped a cord around the drum on the cross slide, ran the cord through a pulley and it would wrap up on the lead screw drum driving the cross slide. May do something similar to my 12 inch Atlas, No drums, but add larger feed dials with plainer markings. Plus a dial and crank on the lead screw comes in handy sometimes. John Meacham in the high desert of California ------- Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:31:38 -0000 From: "fred myers" Subject: Atlas Paint For those of you who might be interested. I needed to paint my 618, the original paint is kind of a greenish gray. Take medium gray, mix a little green and blue pigment -- perfect match, better than plain gray. ------- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:28:22 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: United Parcel Santa Just to add a little more to the 6 inch Atlas numbering and designations dicussion, the Atlas 618 came out as a restyled model with redesigned headstock drive as the Atlas 6 inch Mark II or 3950 lathe. No counter- shaft on this one. Both the Atlas 6 by 18 lathes, the 618 and the 3950, were sold by Sears. One little difference is that Sears brand 618's often did not have the roller headstock bearing. Most, maybe all 618's had the roller bearing. Photos of the newer and older style lathes are here in the photos sub- section called "Atlas 6 inch lathes" and in our yahoogroup atlas618lathe just for the smaller lathes. There is a nice set of photos showing a DC variable speed motor drive added to a 3950 to make up for the decreased number of speeds available without the dual pulley countershaft. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas618lathe/ Also great text & illustrations at http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/index.htm Hank ------- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:51:27 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Hello, new member - looking to get an Atlas 618 In a message dated 12/15/2004, jasonspanglex~xxhotmail.com writes: > I would like to know which years had the "best" head stocks, and what > kinds of things I need to look for when purchasing a decent-looking > used model. (As in what parts wear out the most). early 6x18 had bronze oilite buses & 1x8 spindle...later ones had timken & 1x10 ...maybe somewhere around 1958 for crftsmns,perhaps slightly earlier for atlas...bushed h/stock has tell tale bearing caps (shimmed) ...my 1957 crftsmn 6x18 has been a superb machine & i cut NO slack for not havingtimpkens.....if ever they need replacing , a bush makes life simple & cheap ...the onus is no non friction bearing for the high speed carbide use...my answer is shudnt be using carbide on a light HSM machine anyway, cept to turn hardened stock or maybe large cast iron , & then ,u can hold the speeds under 1000 rpm ...i find i rarely use the hi speed pulley speeds , but u may working on tiny stuff ....the 6x18 is a true small lathe ,giving nothing away cept size capability , the fact that it is small & light ....BUT set up right ,i can take a clean 3/8 full d. cut at .030 in steel w/ my milling attach.!!!!(recently ran a test to see after some poor mouthing posts ...stay away from late models circa 80's ...cheapened , not near as handy ,belt feeds ....bad news by comparison ...get the one that looks like a lathe from 50 yrs ago ...FWIW ...have 5 operating lathes & a 85 yr old monarch 14 awaiting some 1/4in angle for a xmission /motor mount overhead.to drop out of the sky ....6/ 10 / 12 /13/14/14.......wish i had them 50 + yrs ago when i yet desperately wanted to make things , & was working w/ a hacksaw.file & cold chisel ! best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:13:39 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Atlas 618 Model numbers The 1978 sales flyer directly from Atlas shows the model number of 10100 for the 6 X 18 metal lathe. This is the square headstock model, and the ad says motor pulley, but no picture so I don't know if it is the double pulley. 8 speeds listed so must be single pulley on the motor, four speeds direct drive 4 more in back gear. 1 X 10 spindle threads. Roller bearings in the head stock. Price = $295 Another reference from old Sears catalog sheet with no date I can find shows 618 with bronze bearings, round style head stock, Spindle 1 by 8 threads. 16 speeds with double motor pulley included. Price then was $97.00. The odd thing on the illustration on this sheet it looks as if there are "caps" on the head stock bearings just as if they were Babbitt Bearings. I wonder if Atlas used the older babbett bearing castings and just put in bronze oillite bearings in the old castings? The other side of this catalog sheet shows my 12 X 36 which has the mounting legs with two holes at the head stock end, one hole in the center at tailstock, pull and push button (no lever) for the power cross feed. Loose change gears and sold when ever that was for $185.00 a bit more for the longer bed. Unfortunately Sears catalog numbers used for ordering seem to have no relationship to the model numbers on the ID plate on the tool. I.E. to order my lathe tagged 101.07408 you would ask for Catalog number 99 TM 2079. Too bad some Atlas/Craftsman expert here can not come up with some idea of year of manufacture of these machines. John Meacham in the high desert of California ------- Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:41:01 -0600 From: Ron Taylor Subject: Re: Atlas 618 Model numbers Ok, my 101.0301 has the oil caps and uses bronze bushing. I thought that was the way it was suppose to be. So are you saying that the oil caps are supposed to be used only on the babbitt bearings and not the bronze bushings? I'm pretty sure that mine is all factory too. Just wondering. Ron ------- Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:51:56 -0600 From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Atlas 618 Model numbers Ron, I think Catboat was referring to the top half of a babbitt bearing seat. (similar to the rod caps on automobile piston rods) I'm sure oil reservoirs are provided on all sintered bronze bearing models. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:51:08 -0800 From: "Glenn" Subject: Re: Re: Atlas 618 Model numbers "Tom" wrote to: > My 618 (not a Sears) has the oil cups with the little spring loaded > lid and the bearings are the Timken ones. Is this what it should be? > When I get it up and running I should be oiling these cups whenever I > use the lathe, right? I'm confused. Tom Tom, Yes. The only difference in the oil caps between the two machines is the wick in the timken headstock. The oilite has no wick as the oilite bushing is the wick. ------- NOTE TO FILE: There was some discussion about types of wicks for oiler cups in December 2004 in the atlas_craftsman group, a topic largely discussed before. You can see more info in the Lubricants General file on my site, along with the Bearings and Bushings file. ------- Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:18:27 EST From: jmartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Wicks In a message dated 12/19/2004, sleykinx~xxcharter.net writes: > I made an interesting observation after the comments about wicks (felt vs cotton). I looked in the book and parts breakdowns I have and nowhere do I find wicks except on the way wipers. I am not suggesting they are not needed (I think they are) but I find it strange there is no mention of them from Atlas. Perhaps they are considered integral to the oil caps? Anybody that bought their lathe new remember if it came with wicks? IIRC mine had nothing in it when I bought it used and I installed some felt, as much to control the oil flow as to filter what got into the oil caps. Could it be the reason some have cotton waste or string, some have felt and some have nothing is because it was added (or not) after purchase? Just some trivial curiosity :) Glenn N < Many varieties, I think. My 6" Craftsman/Atlas, with Timken roller bearings, came with oil hole covers. These are a small version of an oil cup, with the same hinged spring-loaded covers that the larger oil cups have. Their holding capacity is minimal - maybe 5 drops. They never, as far as I know, had felts or wicks. They are not meant to retain oil. They are meant to be refilled often. My horizontal mill has the same fittings. These machines were meant to be oiled once a shift, or oftener. Other machines use oil cups, which have larger capacities. These might have wicks, which actually carry the oil to the shaft or bearing. Or they might have felts, to limit the oil flow and presumably to filter it. If you use these with a ball or roller bearing, where there is nothing in the bearing to limit the flow, I think you'd want the felt. If it's feeding a porous bronze bearing (where the oil is actually feeding through the bearing material), you shouldn't need it. If it's feeding a bronze or iron bearing with a feed hole, I'd think the felt is up to you and the bearing condition. If it's so loose that the oil runs out in a few minutes, use the felt. But if it's a tight bearing that holds the oil for a while, you shouldn't need the felt. I wouldn''t consider adding a felt just for the filtering. You're presumably using clean oil to begin with. These are total loss systems. I'd just as soon the oil flushed any crud right through the bearings. Which is also why I don't worry about finding non-detergent oil for them. You don't want to use detergent oil in a gearbox or other system with a reservoir and no filtering, but in a total loss system it's fine. Just my opinions, though. Check the Gits web site for a variety of oil hole covers and oil cups. John Martin ------- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 02:42:45 -0000 From: "carbure2003" Subject: Oil cup wicks/felts Re: Digest 2166 I bought my lathe in 1990.(Craftsman 101.28990) It was in brand new condition. It came with felt in the cup. It is a round felt (approx 1/2" dia, 5/16 to 3/8" thick. The same felt can be found in the apron where the pipe cleaners take their oil in order to lubricate the various parts. Guy Cadrin ------- NOTE TO FILE: See the file Lubricants General for more discussion on why non-detergent oil is highly recommended for lubricating our machinery. Also the next message. ------- Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:58:34 -0700 From: lynn.chidesterx~xxxtp.varian.com Subject: Re: Spindle/general lathe oil and gear lube questions The reason for the detergent in the oil for cars is the same reason why non-detergent oil is recommended for machine tools. The detergent in the oil (for cars) keeps the particles suspended in the oil, and allows the oil filter to trap them. For machine tools, the lubricant is not usually circulated nor filtered, so having the particles held in suspension is not desireable. It just provides more circulating & moving grit to wear the precision surfaces. If you have grit, it's better for the machine tools to have it move to the non-bearing surfaces, and stay there until the next time the lathe is cleaned. That said, ANY lubricant (even a NON-recommended one) is better than NO lubricant. Lynn C. (in SLC, UT) ------- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:29:12 -0500 From: Tom Bassi Subject: Re: Re: TS Engineering quick change tool post feedback wanted I had a TS QCTP on my 6" Craftsman and kept it when I sold the lathe....it was so handy I figured it might be useful somewheres else in the future. Only problem we ever had was once in a while the toolpost would turn a few degrees on the compound, and found that the bolt just wasn't grabbing hard enough in the aluminum T nut. We replaced the allen-head bolt with a hex head and made a steel T-nut and it worked like a charm. We do a lot of parting off of small dia. drill rod and the TS toolholder made a big difference. Tj Bassi ------- Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 21:58:52 -0000 From: "beard681" Subject: Re: New 618 questions - DC motors In atlas618lathex~xxyahoogroups.com, William Moore wrote: >Regarding Jason's request for info on a DC variable speed motor : Try >W.W. Grainger. Look at a 1F800 (1/2 hp) or a 2Z846 (3/4 hp). Very >pricey. You may want to rethink a counter shaft arrangement. There is >also the issue of greatly reduced torque at lower speeds with a DC >Variable. You need big hp to assure sufficient torque at low speeds. Bill Check ebay or surplus dealers for either treadmill or scooter motors and KBE DC motor speed controllers. These are PWM controllers that hit the DC motors with full voltage at all speeds, so the motors tend to maintain torque better at low speeds. I got a 90VDC permanent magnet treadmill motor and a KBE 115/230VAC input controller on my atlas. I sold off the countershaft, although I still use the back gears to keep the motor RPMs in a more controllable range. (The control senses motor current and acts to try to keep motor speed at a given setting. For more precise control, a shaft encoder could be put on the motor. I probably would have better low speed performance if I wired the controller for 230VAC input) I know I have enough torque because when I use too much feed or make some other mistake the belt slips - the motor does not stall. One caveat is that you should provide separate on/off switches for the DC and AC sides of the motor. The controllers sometimes do strange things when the AC is switched on/off. John K. ------- Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:30:45 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: New 618 questions - DC motors > I got a 90VDC permanent magnet treadmill motor and a KBE > 115/230VAC input controller on my atlas. I sold off > the countershaft, .... I'm glad that John K. chimed in here to mention his success with a DC variable speed drive for the 618 lathe. And that several surplus sources are available for adequately powered DC motors (and complementary controllers) thus avoiding the high prices of new industrial motors. These kinds of discussions and conversions have been going on for several years so quite a few messages on the subject have reached the collections at the Machining and Metalworking at Home website: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ I would suggest looking at "Atlas Motors and Switches" and "Atlas 618 Gems." Atlas 618 Gems is also here in our atlas618lathe files section. I've never heard of anyone who has a variable speed drive that was unhappy or found a torque shortfall. In our photo section you can see Bob B.'s 3950 lathe outfitted with what looks like a rather lightweight Bridgeport auxiliary motor. Out homepage poster photo is currently a super modded Craftsman 618 lathe with variable speed DC motors at both the spindle and leadscrew. The physical size of this spindle motor is typical for DC VSD conversions. Lastly, there is also a possibility of using an AC VFD using a three phase motor. This is what Bill Hardin said about how inexpensive this was for his 109 lathe: "You will find a discussion of the speed control on my web site (Hints & Tips), allowing installation of this system for less than $100." http://www.homeshopsupply.com/vfd.htm Lots of pictures and specific sources mentioned for motor and controller. Hank ------- Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 04:55:55 -0000 From: "ritnyre" Subject: A question about gear rotation I acquired an Atlas /Craftsman 618 lathe. It was filthy. The serial number is 3246. I'm cleaning it up. My question starts with part number M6-58. This is the lever that allows you to engage/disengage or reverse the lead screw. There are three gears on this lever. One of the three is actually two stacked gears. The other two gears are the subject of my question. In the process of cleaning these other two gears I noticed that there is a sleeve inside of both of them. This sleeve is, in the case of both gears, fastened to the gear itself. In other words the gear does not rotate on the sleeve. The bolt that holds this gear, and the other gear too, to part M6-58, when tightened, will not allow the gear to rotate. If I loosen the bolts a bit the gear will rotate but then when the gear turns clockwise, after a while, the bolt will tighten up and the gear will not rotate. If it goes counterclockwise, the bolt will come undone. Either of these situations is not good. I'm wondering if somewhere in this lathe's life someone changed the way these gears are fastened to M6-58. If on the other hand, the gears were to rotate on the sleeve then the problem would be solved. Can someone please look at their functioning lathe and tell me how these gears/sleeves bolts should function? Many Thanks, Bob ------- Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 05:11:12 -0500 From: David Beierl Subject: Re: A question about gear rotation > If on the other hand, the gears were to rotate on the sleeve > then the problem would be solved. Exactly...make it so. David Beierl -- Providence RI USA Atlas 618 6"/3/index.html" lathe ca. 1941 ------- Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 02:09:22 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Tumbler gears M6-59 and M6-60 Folks are trying to be helpful but I think the situation has gotten a little confusing at this point. Bob, on just the subject of the two tumbler gears, 59 and 60, on my lathe they have keyways. This is immaterial, so whether yours are keyed makes no difference. You hit the crux of the matter when you said maybe the gears have to freely spin on the bushings, two M6-33 UNSPLINED bushings. These bushings indeed have to freely slip inside the 59 and 60 gears because they, the bushings, are locked down by the two 1/4 x 20 x 7/8 bolts. The OD of the bushings is .500 inch. It doesn't take much space between this OD and the gear ID to make a freely turning gear. If you remove the bushing, take a moment to remove any burrs or sharp edges on the gear ID (or less likely the bushing OD), that may go a ways towards freeing things up. If you still need more clearance, and the bushing OD is .500, I'd try a little emery or sandpaper lightly applied (wrapped around a dowel) to the gear ID. Others may prefer taking down the bushing OD alternatively. It doesn't look like you'll need to buy anything. David B. had it right in his post when he said "make it so." I've purposely not gone into talking about gears and bushings on the change gear bracket which have been mentioned (and pictured) in other posts including your second one. Hank ------- Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 05:00:11 -0000 From: "ritnyre" Subject: Re: Tumbler gears M6-59 and M6-60 First of all thank you all for the time and interest that you've given me. I finally think I've got it. Yes, the two gears (59 and 60) do have grooves/slots/keyways whatever cut in them, but this does not matter. One has 20 teeth and the other has 24. They are each on a bushing. These bushings are very dirty and the gears do not rotate freely on them at all. I miked the length of the bushings and the thickness of the gears and the bushings are longer than the gears are thick. Sooooo if I clean up the outside of the bushings (which is covered with sticky gunk)and the inside of the gears (also gunky) and oil them they should spin freely and when I tighten down the 7/8 long 1/4 x20 hex bolt on the thick washer every- thing should be good. Hank you even had the length of that bolt down to the nitty gritty. I'll be back after a good cleaning. Thank you all. Bob ------- Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 11:56:19 -0500 From: William Moore Subject: Re: A question about gear rotation Bob, my lathe had the same problem when I got it. The sleeves are supposed to be held tight to the mounting assembly while the gears turn freely on the sleeve. The old oil has just turned to "glue". Carefully remove the sleeves, clean and re-oil them then retighten the mounting bolts. Bill ------- Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:44:19 -0000 From: "ritnyre" Subject: Re: A question about gear rotation Bill, and all the super people who have helped. I did what Bill described and the gears work like a charm. I suspect that this lathe has had these gears unused for a long long time and hence the oil turned to "glue". Perhaps it is a good thing that this happened, because whenever I get this thing back together and using it, everytime I use the lead screw I shall move it by hand first to make sure it is turnable and I shall be religious about oiling it every time. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Bob ------- Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:42:58 -0500 From: "S or J" Subject: Tap and Die for 618 Atlas 1 x 10 Thread Hi Folks The Atlas 618 with the 1" x 10 tpi spindle presents a bit more of a challenge with respect to finding and making accessories to thread on, compared to those lucky folks with the 1" x 8 tpi spindles for which everybody seems to make stuff, as it was common on metal and woodworking lathes. Single point threading new accessories using the lathe itself is always one option. Using a tap to clean up the thread after removing most of the metal with lathe threading is another option. Yes indeed there are taps available commercially and are listed in the KBC Tools & Machinery Catalogue. Usual disclaimer. Company is a bit pricey for many items but is sometimes the only one with some oddball stuff. I have not seen these taps in my other catalogues, but there are likely other sources out there. Under KBC's category of Special Thread Taps, a plug (only) tap in 1" x 10 tpi -- Part Number 1-372-352 for Cdn $43.68 all of which info should be verified in case it has changed since. And if you ever needed one, they listed a High Speed Special Thread Adjustable Die in 1" x 10 tpi (2" outside die diameter) as Part Number 1-368-23-10 for Cdn $36.05 all of which info should be verified in case it has changed since. KBC contact info valid in the Canadian 2004 cat follows: Website: www.KBCTools.com Canada - stores in Toronto, Windsor, and Vancouver. Toll-free phone 1-888-522-8665 and fax 1-800-668-5615 U.S.A. -- stores in Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, San Francisco, and L.A. Toll-free phone 1-800-521-1740 and fax 1-800-322-4292 Can't remember where I read it in a machining book, but if you ever need a plug or bottoming tap and only have a taper version, you can always grind off the end to convert a taper to a plug to a bottoming. In only that order, of course :-) Hope this helps someone. Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada ------- Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:56:33 -0500 From: "Earl Bower" Subject: Re: half-nut lever [atlas_craftsman group] Kenneth, my Atlas 6" (purchased new in 1977) is made the same way and the Craftsman uses quite a bit of the same parts. If you use a die grinder (small hand held, like dremel or air) and grind the greatest parts of the pein over out it should be easy to tap it out with a pin punch and hammer. It is not recommended to hammer on it too hard as you could break the apron. You can either tap the old one or pein over the new one into the hole. I would suggest tapping about a 10-32 and use a button head screw to lock the new one in place. I had to replace the one on my machine awhile back, but I peined over the new one when replacing. As for the color, mine came from Atlas painted machinery grey. The blue color was Sears color. Earl Bower www.bowermachineandtool.com ------- Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:42:31 -0000 From: "zzz_zinger" Subject: Re: half-nut lever [atlas_craftsman group] Earl, I purchased mine brand new from Atlas Press Co in 1976. The lathe and all accessories are painted blue. There is a similar lathe on ebay - known as the Mk 2 - that is also painted blue. I believe it has an original purchase date of 1980. Jim ------- Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:49:07 -0500 From: "Earl Bower" Subject: Re: Re: half-nut lever Jim: Just went to the shop and checked again. I have my papers marked May 16, 1977 and I bought it new from Atlas Press Co. When it came it was machinery grey. I, later in the same year purchased the rest of the lathe accessories, 3-jaw chuck, steady rest, follower rest, vertical milling attachment, and tool bit holders. The only accessories I did not buy, wished I had, was the carriage stop and mica cutting attachment. The vertical milling attachment, along with the lathe itself, was painted machinery grey. The follower rest and steady rest (just went to the shop for another look) was painted dark blue. My lathe is listed as a 3950. It is the square head side spindle drive belt. It has the head and the bed/feet of the newer design. The rest of the lathe is the older parts. Atlas must have been playing with the two colors. Apparently they were using both colors so it would be easier to send out one accessory to fit both lathes. The blue was the original design color for Sears. I have a customer (not on the internet) that he has the 3950 model and it is blue with the Craftsman name on it. When I first got mine, I contacted Atlas and asked the color and they told me to use machinery grey. When I purchased mine, Atlas was running a special on them and was selling the lathe (with 4-jaw chuck) for $295.00 plus $35.00 shipping for a total of $325.00 shipped to me. There was a machinist magazine (can't remember now the name, it did not last too long) that was running the same special. There was a 6 to 7 month waiting period so I called Atlas and had mine in about two weeks. I did check the the ebay and that is listed as a 10100. This was a number associated with Sears/Craftsman lathes. I have copies of most of the manuals (the original copy of my lathe) and have been matching up parts. If you look at the 10100 series lathes some of the parts start with M6.x. The M6 was a number designation for the Atlas parts. Earl Bower www.bowermachineandtool.com ------- Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:52:25 -0500 From: "Earl Bower" Subject: Re: Re: half-nut lever Jim, I have got to get my office cleaned up and resort all the folders. I keep everything in a folder for the Atlas 6". The following is from the original manuals/invoices from Atlas. All the invoices have Atlas Press Co. on the top. All items are listed by date when purchased new. I hope I don't have any tears from others as to the price. -- Dated 5-3-77 Lathe - TM100 - (model 3950 on lathe plate)---$295.00 shipping - (made a mistake on original email)---20.00 total---$315.00 Note: 4-jaw chuck (M6-844B on instruction sheet) came with lathe -- Dated 6-27-77 Chuck - 3-jaw - TM108 - (model 6611 on instr sheet) ---$75.00 shipping --- 5.00 total ---$80.00 -- Dated 11-07-77 cut off tool - 6675 ---$9.95 milling attachment - M6-500 ---29.95 steady rest - M6-325 ---9.95 left hand holder - 6671 ---7.70 shipping ---5.02 total ---$62.57 -- Dated 11-15-77 follower rest - M6-395 ---$9.95 6 piece bit set - M63865 ---3.30 straight holder - 6670 ---9.40 right hand holder - 6672 ---7.70 knurling tool - 6673 ---9.95 shipping ---4.33 total ---$44.63 I didn't get the faceplate as I got a gear blank (from the company I worked for as tool designer) and made my own. I then designed (and had made at the same company shop) the little cross slide that you see. I also designed the 4-tool toolpost, that is on my web site, that I use on my lathe. I will answer in the next email about the milling attachment. I have several catalogs, from Atlas (now Clausing) and all of them are printed in blue background but the lathes and accessories are printed in dark grey or black line not a picture of the original lathe. I don't doubt that your numbers are correct. My contact, at Clausing, was Jolene Olds. I have not spoke to her in quite awhile now. She was the one that give me a lead on the jaws for my 3-jaw (at which I purchased 2 sets as they were being sold out and not re-stocked). For those who want to know, I have it straight from Atlas (Jolene Olds) that the gears for the drive train are 24 pitch, 14 1/2 degree pressure angle. I have all the cutters to make any of the gears along with a special keyway adapter (had made for me where I worked before) to allow me to use keyway cutters and put the two keyways into the gears. Earl Bower www.bowermachineandtool.com ------- Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:11:33 EST From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Metric Atlas (Was Re: half-nut lever) [atlas_craftsman group] In a message dated Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:37:48 -0000, Jim writes: << I have uploaded to the atlas_craftsman group in the photo area 6" lathes Atlas Press Co folder 4 scans. Sorry that Yahoo squishes them down. If you need a higher resolution, please email me. >> Guys, you won't be able to read this unless you get him to send you his scans, but the 4th picture he referred to covers the specs for Models 10100 and 10200. Never heard of 10200? Neither had I until a friend gave me this same catalog a week ago. It's the only METRIC lathe I've ever seen listed as an Atlas. 150 mm swing, 489 mm between centers, 23 metric threads, right or left (but NO inch threads), etc. All screws and dials graduated in millimeters. Because of peculiarities related to screw- cutting metric pitches, this model came with ---> 3 <--- threading dials! This is the square head 8 speed model, takes all the same accessories as the inch version. It has the 1" x 10 TPI spindle thread. Same price as the inch version. Has anybody heard of this metric Atlas before? Or actually seen one? Did Atlas (not Clausing) offer any of their other lathes in metric trim? Anyway, thought some of you might find this interesting. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:38:31 -0800 From: "Robert Bond" Subject: RE: Metric Atlas (Was Re: half-nut lever) Yes, I have one. The big differences appear to be that the lead screw and the cross-slide screws have metric threads. All of the gears, etc are interchangeable with the English threaded models. And the swing is 6 inches, not an even metric number, so the tailstock height is the 3", though it is marked in metric too. Bob ------- 26 FEB 2005 NOTE TO FILE: Hank found a few corrections in the 618 threading chart metric section and passed them to Bruno; this chart (now found at the start of this Gems file) has been updated with these corrections. ------- Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 23:35:53 -0000 From: "murkyo" Subject: The high cost of needing 6x18 parts! Today I sold the last of the my Atlas parts, which many of you probably recall I had first offered for sale on this forum a few weeks ago. I had the parts that would have formed almost two complete lathes. I sold many of the parts on this forum for what at the time I thought were reasonable prices, plus I gave away a few odds and ends, and then sold the rest in the strange virtual universe known as Ebay. I oringally expected to get something like $500-750. In the end, I got $3000! If I had sold it all on Ebay, it would have brought about $3500 probably. I knew I was getting a lot, but I hadn't actually sat down until now and added it all up, and I am completely stunned. While it would be disingenuous to object too strongly about having three grand burning a hole in my pocket, frankly I am saddened by what this portends for the hobby. It just seems like much of it is getting out of reach of so many people. And of course this affects me too, since I buy a lot more than I sell. Over the last couple years I've been looking for parts for my South Bend... well now I can finally afford them! Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who bought stuff. They were all pleasant transactions, and I feel good about being able to help make some lathes whole again. It's a more satisfying experience selling in a forum like this than on Ebay. > $285 for a 3-jaw chuck!! How'd you do it?? I did clean the parts, and take plenty of quality pictures. Other than that I cannot take credit. I did not put laborious verbiage filled with superfluous adjectives, like many sellers do. I do think that putting up plenty of quality pictures helps, as it removes most or all of the uncertainty about an item's condition. For example, I made sure that the pictures clearly showed the teeth on gears, so people could judge for themselves precisely what the condition was, and not have to rely on the seller's description of condition. Basically, I looked at the "preview" of each listing, and asked myself, "if I was in the market for this item, would the pictures be adequate for me to have total confidence in the condition?" I rejected four times as many pictures as I accepted. Frankly, I did not do this thinking it would increase prices; rather I did this thinking it would increase satisfaction. But I think it did both. I got quite a few emails from Ebay buyers after they had received the items, saying how pleased they were with the condition, and almost everything sold for way, way over my expectations, and not all my expectations were completely naive. For example, the week before I listed mine, a backgear assembly sold on Ebay for $40. I sold one of mine on this forum for $35, and one on Ebay, which fetched $125. Go figure... ------- Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:41:59 -0400 From: "Earl Bower" Subject: Re: Digest Number 350 >> The drive belt on my recently bought Mk2 Atlas Model 3950 has >> an unusual section size. It is about 0.27" wide max. and about >> 0.22"deep. This is not an industry standard FHP belt such as >> 2L, 3L etc. The counter man at the local power transmission >> company couldn't help.The only belt I could find of the right section >> was a smog pump belt at an auto parts store. Unfortunately it wasn't >> the best length for me. Any guidance here would be appreciated, >> thanks Bruce Murray > Bruce, Your belt has probably been installed by a former user and may > well be a good fit in practice, but I don't think it's factory spec. > I know for sure the 618 lathes use 3L belts. > These are FAQs, but atlas618lathe doesn't yet have a FAQ. Hank Check my web site for the belt. www.bowermachineandtool.com Mark2 model 3950 used the smaller belts. Earl Bower ------- Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:39:42 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: Belt Section for Mk2 Model 3950? Bruce, well, Earl says he has the proper belts for the 3950 and they're standard 2L according to his website. Yet another difference between the 3950 and the earlier 618 lathes. Definitely a atlas618lathe FAQ worthy question. Thanks for asking and sorry I was leading you astray. Hank ------- Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 02:26:54 -0000 From: "brucesmurray" Subject: Re: Belt Section for Mk2 Model 3950? Hank, I am grateful to you and Earl for setting me straight on this issue. Actually since I have the motor set underneath the lathe bench, I can't use Earl's belt offering. I am looking for a 42" long belt or thereabouts. I now know to get a 2L section belt - all I have to find is a long enough one - 38" seems to be the largest commonly available. I like to have the motor under the bench since it gives me more useful space and acts to protect the motor. Bruce ------- Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:13:33 -0700 From: "Lou Balleweg" Subject: Re: Oil cups... > On my Sears with bronze bearings, I fill the oil cup on the right > headstock bearing every time I use the lathe, and it always needs it. > However, the left one NEVER goes down. Is something wrong? Is it > getting the lubrication it needs? Thanks Paul Busman I don't know if it is right or wrong but my Craftsman 618 Model 101.07301 does the same thing. ------- Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 08:16:56 -0500 From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Oil cups... Yes, this seems to be a standard "quirk" on these A/Cs. I keep a close eye on the right hand oil cup when I am running my lathe. I want to make sure it does not run dry... very important to keep this bearing and journal in good shape. Also, oiling the lead screw bearings often seem to be the norm. I always oil the spindle pulley bearing and back gear bearings before running the lathe in backgear. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 09:08:18 -0400 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: Two weeks and no messages? >Where is everybody? Is it spring break for the 618 people? >How are all those projects our members have been working on? Bruno Hi Bruno. As much as we love our baby Atlas machines, there are times when other stuff gets in the way. Spring has sprung, although 2 inches of snow only 7 days ago was a bit unsettling. SWMBO has a definite requirement for gardening stuff, and I must admit I enjoy getting outside after weather constraints on outdoor activities (that I enjoy) since the first snows last October. [Yes that is at least 8 months when it usually snows here, two more months with overnight frost, and with luck 60 days between first/last frost. Aaargh...] Then there is the rust hunting, a term for tracking and bagging tools employed by the Galoots on the Oldtools mailing list. I am a Galoot. [And for those of you wondering, SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed.] Now if you think this is off topic, no, every one of you needs stuff to work with your machining hobby, including a workshop. The Galoots discuss all sorts of skills and techniques that are useful there, including restoring, repairing, refinishing, and making tools. A very few of those ideas are in the Workshop Tips file and other files on my site. And while they come at their hobby from the viewpoint of primarily woodworkers, the tools don't care if you are primarily a metalworker. Lots of overlap in useful ideas. Here is one such idea, that they use to justify tools, that you Atlas fans can adopt without reservation today. Thanks a heap to Steve Reynolds for a brilliant tool philosophy: *** Subject: Re: RE: Compass Plane [oldtools list] From: Steve Reynolds Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:55:10 -0500 Keeling, John (GE Energy) wrote: >>> I am thinking of buying a compass plane... <<< From: paul womack [mailto:pwomackx~xxpapermule.co.uk] >> I'd start with a more general question; does anybody out there use a compass plane - and if so what for, how often, and how easy is it to use. THEN (and only then) would I worry about models. Bugbear << From: "Keeling, John (GE Energy)" > Oh, and my other reason for wanting a compass plane is, I don't have one! But seriously, Bugbear makes a good point. Does anyone use one? Does it do what I think it's supposed to? Is it worth the bother? < The Support Group from Hell does not endorse the sentiments expressed by Bugbear even though they do make some sorta sense. It is a basic belief amongst SGFHers that if you know that a tool exists, and if you want one, then that is plenty good to go ahead and buy one. No sharp pencil calculation needed to justify the acquisition. You need at least one of every tool made no matter how arcane or esoteric. If someone else needed one, what makes you think you won't? The only question to answer is in what order do you obtain them. I answer this question by getting anything that crosses my path. Go forth and accumulate. Regards, Steve Reynolds *** Since I love wood as well as metal working, I get to rust hunt for darn near anything and everything. You can too. Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ [Oldtools links are on my site.] ------- Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:46:22 -0000 From: "speedphoto300" Subject: Re: "Our" Lathes on eBay After seeing a number of these go for what I thought were high prices I started a database of auction ending prices with info like accessories included and condition. The Ebay record for a 618 (or Craftsman equivalent) is $2325.00, equipped only slightly better than this one. Hype is the single biggest factor, a bare lathe with nothing included once went for $1126.00 because of the description, where well equipped machines with "plain" descriptions can go for $300.00. The average of 256 entries so far is $569.00. Ebay is a funny place, the rules of the real world do not apply, in many different ways. Joe ------- Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:37:22 -0000 From: "Lou Balleweg" Subject: Adapter for Taig Milling Attachment Hi All, I have uploaded dimensioned pictures of my adapter for mounting the inexpensive Taig milling attachment on the cross slide cone of our lathe. The Taig appears to some to be flimsy. It is quite adequate for the light milling it is intended for. I have used it for several things, including cutting keyways. Regards, Lou ------- Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:10:54 -0700 From: "Rick Brucken" Subject: Cross-Slide DTI Mount [atlas618lathe] I've been scratching my head about mounting a dial test indicator to indicate on the 'Y' movement of the cross slide of my 618. It appears to me it should be mounted on the right rear side of the cross slide versus the left rear where it would get splattered when cutting oil is used. Anyone have a clever solution they'd be willing to share? A tip for those who haven't discovered this yet, I've been using my milling attachment recently and have found that if you remove the cross-slide ball crank and tighten two 5/16"-24 nuts together on the end of the feed screw in its place, you can then use a 1/2" socket on the end of a speed handle to crank the cross slide back and forth. Much easier than using the ball crank. You can also use a variable speed drill and 1/2" socket if you want power cross feed. Thanks, Rick Brucken Silverado, Ca. ------- Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:29:09 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Cross-Slide DTI Mount Rick, look in the Photos section under Bruno's Lathe folder. I made a couple of brackets so the DI is mounted on the back of the carriage and an adjustable push rod is mounted on the cross slide. The trick was to get the DI in such a position so as not to be in the way of anything. It works superbly, and I've not used the lathe's dial since. Bruno ------- Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:50:06 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: Figuring change gears for threading / was 42 TPI anyone? > NOTE: The metric setups in the "Atlas 618 Lathe Thread > Chart Revised" are wrong! Whoever entered the data shifted > the rows in one or more columns. Bruno has mentioned to me earlier this week that there is a mixup in the position C headings for the above referenced chart. I'll consult Bruno and Ed about any mistakes and create new corrected PDF and Word versions when their and my my times permit, which might not be for another week. It's good to mention suspected or confirmed mistakes as soon as they're discovered, so that the corrections can be made and announced. Hank ------- NOTE TO FILE: Bruno's threading charts were again updated in the files of atlas618lathe (Yahoo group) in July 2005 to include a great many theoretical setups for uncommon threads. Unfortunately it contained some errors. I was confused trying to figure out which versions were correct, being corrected, or still subject to error and revision. So I will leave the earlier, smaller chart at the start of this text file in its Mar 2005 state. If I find any errors in this earlier version, they will be corrected; but no new threadings as in the latest .doc or .pdf versions at the group will be added. IF YOU NEED MORE THREADING SETUPS, I strongly suggest: a. you consult atlas618lathe group's latest threading file(s); AND b. you verify any thread setup you read (here, or there, or in any book) on scrap material first. Remember President Reagan's brilliant philosophy: "Trust, but verify." ------- Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:43:19 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Removing tailstock bearing Does anybody know how to remove the bearing from the back of the tailstock (part M6-30). I can't tell if it's threaded in or pressed in. Thanks, Bruno ------- Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:21:52 -0400 From: bepurr Subject: Re: Removing tailstock bearing Bruno: Logic told me that the bearing should be screwed in, and sho 'nuff, it does. 7/8"x14 right hand thread. My 618 is (or was) a work-horse and not a museum piece and I have drilled and tapped several holes in it for various purposes and the marks left by the Channel Loks to remove the bearing only add 'character' to the lathe. I suggest that if removing the bearing leave a couple of marks, that you file a couple of flats (which should have been there in the first place) where the marks were for a wrench. Bryan P. (bepurr) There is a very fine line between a hobby and insanity, which possibly expains why I am so comfortable in the shop. -------- Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:08:15 -0000 From: "Ken R" Subject: 618 Backgear Engagement Hi All, been reading thru the Gems but I ran out of time and patience so I've got a question. Given "the "plunger pin" in the large gear immediately behind the right bearing next to the chuck, is to change from direct drive to back-gear drive. If the pin is "in", the lathe is in direct drive from the belt pulley. If the pin is in the "out" position, there is no connection to between the two. With the pin in the "out" position, pull the lever on the right side of the the gears behind the spindle toward you. This will engage the gears on the spindle and the back-gears. rotate the belt pulleys or the chuck to mesh the gears." Now I followed that to the letter, in normal cond. it runs like a top, follow this to engage backgear and everything locks up tight. No amount of jiggling, twisting, increase of belt pressure, will make something move! All lubed well, lead screw not engaged, should be working! What did I miss? At least I stopped before I broke something. Ken ------- Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:28:13 -0000 From: "Alex" Subject: Re: 618 Backgear Engagement I'm sure you pulled the pin inside the pulley and not the indexing pin. So I just tried mine and the first thing that happened was would not turn by hand. Tried again and it worked. I tried to duplicate why and found that the lever was probably not pulled all the way to engage, due to the gears meshed wrong. The lever on mine correctly pulls all the way to the oil cap on the bearing. Roll the gears a little and make sure your engage handle rotates near the oil fill cap, indicating proper mesh. If your spindle is free and your back gear turns free, that is probably the problem. My novice answer. alex ------- Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 23:55:41 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: 618 Backgear Engagement Ken: When you pull the pin on the bull gear, but before engaging the back gears, the bull gear and the spindle should be independant of the pulley (and the smaller gear to the left of the pulley) and spin rather freely. If that's not the case, then either the pin is not pulled out far enough, or there is something inside there locking it all together. On mine, it's easy to pull the pin part way out where it feels like it's out, but it's not. You need to pull it some more. One more thing. When putting the pin back in, you must align the bull gear so that the pin is aligned with the small set screw found in the second pulley (which is where you oil the spindle for backgear operation). Bruno ------- Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:35:07 -0400 From: bepurr Subject: Re: 618 Backgear Engagement Ken: About half way along the spindle cone pulley is what looks like a setscrew. This is only a plug for the oil hole to oil the interior shaft. This screw may have been tightened down against the shaft. If so, you will have the problem described. Back off the setscrew. Bryan P. (bepurr) ------- Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 04:22:52 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Carriage Assembly Removal Tips Or Tricks In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "jpogriff2" wrote: > Gonna remove the carriage assembly to my 6x18 this weekend. Anyone > have any tips or tricks as to the removal process? Seems like the lead > screw and gear assembly need to be removed. Also, the rest assembly, > slide split nut. Then is it just the gibs? To remove the whole carriage, you need to remove the leadscrew bearing on the right side only. I crank the carriage near the right end, then tie the leadscrew up with a string to keep it level when I remove the bearing. The carriage will cranks and then slide off the right side. Then I put the bearing back to hold the leadscrew. No need to remove the leadscrew completely. Bruno ------- Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:45:40 -0600 From: Hugh Prescott Subject: Re: Wanted local source for a belt mk2crafts wrote: > I have a Craftsman model 101.21200, 6 inch, mk2 lathe and I'm looking > for a universal number for the spindle belt (Craftsman 051-075). I > want to walk into a belt supplier here in California instead of mail > ordering one a few thousand miles away. Any help would be greatly > appreciated. Fenner PowerTwist belting 3/8 inch wide 5 foot lengths available at many industrial supply stores. It is a link belt that you can make any length you need and there is no need to remive the spindle to replace the belt. I get mine from Motion Industries or Granger Hugh ------- NOTE TO FILE: While the 3/8 inch link belt is just fine for the original Mark 1 Atlas-made 6" lathes (roundish headstock casting), it is not correct for the Mark 2 (squarish headstock casting). See next message. ------- Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:51:11 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: Wanted local source for a belt for Mk 2 model lathe The Mark 2, as I mentioned about a week ago, takes a standard (but not too common) 2L type belt. You'd need to measure to be able to specify the length to your local belt supplier. The Mk 2 also has the spindle drive pulley end mounted so there is no problem changing its belt. Earl Bower sells this exact belt through his website: http://www.bowermachineandtool.com/bower_machine/Atlas_6.html Hank ------- Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 00:18:36 -0000 From: "Paul Busman" Subject: Help! 6"Atlas popping "out of gear" ! [atlas_craftsman] My Sears/Atlas 6" has started disengaging itself while running. I'll be turning along and suddenly, the work stops turning. The motor is still running. If I lift the headstock cover, I can see that the rightmost large gear on the spindle has drifted to the right, which somehow disengages the cone pulleys. There's one setscrew on that gear, which seems to lock down a little pin which can be slid in and out. Opposite that setscrew, there's another hole in the edge of the gear near the teeth, but there's no setscrew in that hole. If I push the gear to the right and twiddle around with it I can re-engage the pulleys, but it soon pops out again. Thanks. Paul ------- Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 02:00:53 -0000 From: "speedphoto300" Subject: Re: Help! 6"Atlas popping "out of gear" ! You've already found the problem, the empty hole should have a setscrew in it. The other setscrew isn't there to lock the pin, there should be a spring and ball that detents the pin. A look at the parts diagram will show this assembly in detail. As I recall, there is one in the files section here. Joe ------- Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 02:46:26 -0000 From: "speedphoto300" Subject: Re: Help! 6"Atlas popping "out of gear" ! > Any idea what size the setscrew is? My parts list says 8-32, 3/8 long. Joe ------- Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:48:28 -0000 From: "speedphoto300" Subject: Re: Help! 6"Atlas popping "out of gear" ! > Thanks-- you're a lifesaver. > What is that little pin thingie on the other side of the gear for? > I gather it's something to do with disengaging that pulley when using > the back gears. I don't really have call to do that, so setscrewing it > down tight should be fine, no? Exactly, you pull the pin to the right to disengage the pulley from the bull gear, then pull the back gear lever forward to rotate the gears into engagement. The pin has two grooves in it, the setscrew on the pin side is supposed to hold a spring and steel ball in the hole, the ball detents the pin to the in or out positions. You shouldn't need to tighten the setscrew to hold the pin in place, unless the spring and ball are missing. Joe ------- Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 01:52:58 -0000 From: "speedphoto300" Subject: Re: Actual Timken Bearing Numbers [atlas618lathe] Ken: I'm surprised that any of the setscrews are touching the spindle directly, there must be something wrong there. The cone pulley should be free to turn on the bronze bearings in it, the setscrew in the pulley just fills an oil hole and shouldn't touch the spindle. The bull gear has two tapped holes in it, 180 degrees apart. One is for the setscrew that bears against the woodruff key that couples the bull gear to the spindle. The other is for the spring and ball detent for the pin that locks the bull gear to the cone pulley in direct drive. The only other setscrew is the one in the preload collar, and it should have a lead pad between it and the threads on the back end of the spindle. If your headstock isn't set up that way you may have to do more work on it. If there was slipping in direct drive it suggests that something is missing or broken. Joe ------- Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:26:19 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: Actual Timken Bearing Numbers There are a total of three setscrews that bear directly or indirectly against the 618 spindle. Working from left to right along the spindle they are: 1. The preload collar (M6-32) setscrew is separated from the threaded spindle end by a pad (plastic on mine). This protects those spindle threads from getting mashed. 2. The spacer (M6-89) setscrew at the left inside wall of the headstock casting. This bears against the spindle. 3. The bull gear (M6-241) setscrew near the right wall of the headstock casting. This is located 180 degrees from the spring loaded detent ball and the woodruff key. It also bears against the spindle. So setcrews 2 and 3 can and do ding up the spindle. When I took mine apart I had to file away some burrs created by overtightening of these setscrews. Polishing up only the areas that need it might be the way to go. I'd be inclined to skip milling setscrew landing flats. If you really want to, suggest making them as shallow and as small as possible. Hank ------- Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 04:00:06 -0000 From: "speedphoto300" Subject: Re: Actual Timken Bearing Numbers > 2. The spacer (M6-89) setscrew at the left inside wall of > the headstock casting. This bears against the spindle. Oops, missed the collar. Joe ------- Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:54:38 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: Actual Timken Bearing Numbers > And really the bearings look perfect and the keys and keyways > are clean, tight and seem to have enough bite. That's good news. > Since it was so quick and easy to tear down I got belts, setscrews > and will work on placing shims, mostly for the lateral movement. Ah, shims. The mechanism that the Atlas designers came up with, if you have all the parts (see spindle drawing just uploaded), doesn't need any shimming at all. Any need to shim is a sign that something ain't right. > Your opinion on a couple of things. I was going to "crocus cloth" > the shaft to polish and remove the worst of the burrs. Yes/No? If you only need crocus cloth for the burrs you're in great shape. I had to fine file off some rather big dings from overtightening of the two spindle setscrews (2 and 3). Setscrew 1 thankfully had a bit of plastic pad left that protected the coarse spindle threads. I still need to turn a replacement piece of plastic. > Then after re-assembly I was going to prick punch all of the > setscrew contact points and use the shaper to put a small "flat" > on the shaft. Maybe I can slow this from happening again. Yes/No? > Balance and vibration or not to worry about? There are only two contact points, at each side of the headstock housing. As mentioned before, I'd be inclined to skip that enhancement, just for the sake of "if it isn't broken, don't fix it." It might be a pretty good idea, though. Hank ------- NOTE TO FILE: See the following entry in the Bearings and Bushings file: 2006 NOTE TO FILE: SETSCREW CONTACT WITH SPINDLE - PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONS Some solutions may be applicable to any type or brand of machine. ------- Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:52:23 -0000 From: "Ken R" Subject: Re: Actual Timken Bearing Numbers Hank, Joe, & n1ltv, Thanks All for assisting. n1ltv thanks for the post of page 12 of the manual, mine matches, so we are all on the same page. {no pun intended :-)} Hank & Joe, I don't know why it took me this long to think of it but I posted some pix for your perusal, Photo Section, Kens El. Shows the spindle, keyways, setscrew marks, and the bearings. My apologies to bruno, when I got the bearings out and cleaned off, the numbers were there. Problem is everyone in my little town that carries Timken Bearings has or can get 07100, 07196, but not 07079. Although I have not tried the place recommended by the Timken website as they must be taking a long Xmas break. But I have inspected them under a stereo microscope {at work} and I'd feel OK putting these into an Aircraft; they look new. Pix are there, what do you think. It is interesting that the right most bearing was in so hard against the spindle that the words and numbers are permanently imprinted backwards into the spindle "lip, ring, collar" whatever the correct term may be. You can see the crossthreaded setscrew in the one pic, the oposite hole is empty, it's a wonder Backgear worked at all. The multiple marring is from the #8-32 X3/16 setscrew, re-tightened many times. M-89 has a screw but was free spinning. And Hank, my book says you can use a #4 Lead Shot where you have that plastic. I'm at a loss to really see anything else wrong, assembly wise. Part count is good, have noted the setscrew problems, I inspected the spindle with Dye Penetrant, there is NO key wiped off and hiding in the pulley area. There is just space or rather lateral play, so I am thinking shims. I also was re-thinking the milled flats, now maybe just #8 drilled dimples. I agree with your thinking on having a setscrew fail as opposed to Lathe damage. As I said, I will probably not dive back in until the weekend, I want to be able to work it at one sitting. I appreciate ya'all helping me "think this thru" prior to the work. So, once again, thoughts/opinions now, anything in your mind change? Also apart from the belts, is there anything I should consider while I have the headstock torn down this far? Preventive Maintenance? Thanks Again All, Take Care, Ken ------- Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:08:26 -0800 (PST) From: Hank Riley Subject: Aligning and assembling the headstock components >M6-89 has a screw but was free spinning. > I'm at a loss to really see anything else wrong, assembly wise. There > is just space or rather lateral play, so I am thinking shims. Ken: That's your lateral play problem right there. That M6-89 spacer should be *loosely* up against the dust cover (M6-72) of the left bearing (M6-82B) of the headstock casting. It actually shows in one of the photos you uploaded. I'm attaching a closeup with the extra space marked. This image will also be in Ken's photo folder since the web archives don't save attachments. The spacer is not meant to be free spinning so use its setscrew to fix it on the spindle. When the M6-89 spacer is properly located, one can only move the pulley sideways less than 1/64 inch total. A thought is to have a very thin brass or delrin washer between that spacer and the dust cover for possible wear and friction reduction (not for spacing), but it needs to be thin because the whole headstock and gear centering design is based on the spacer being positioned right in the gap between the headstock and pulley gear (2140-10). The spacer is loose in the gap, so there should be essentially no friction or wear between the spacer and the dust cover, so the added washer is really gilding the lilly. Hank ------- Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:42:15 -0000 From: "Ken R" Subject: Re: Aligning and assembling the headstock components Thanks Hank! Will correct that upon assembly! 1/64 lateral end play? Is that the high or low side of the tolerance? Is the tolerance listed somewhere and I missed it? I also found the motor mount/rear belt assembly was loose on the table, that one is/was my fault, I will correct that also. I'll keep ya posted. Thanks Muchly Again! Ken ------- Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 18:53:48 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: Aligning and assembling the headstock components > 1/64 lateral end play? Is that the high or low side of the > tolerance? Is the tolerance listed somewhere and I missed it? It's just my judgement as to how to set it up, leaving just the slightest amount of space so the spacer doesn't bind or dig into the bearing cover. It's probably more like .01 inch. It's totally non-critical since it just governs how far back and forth the *pulley* can slide on the spindle. Hank ------- Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:17:13 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: More about change gears >I am getting SOOO tired of the prices that change gear sets are >going for. Talk about over inflated - sheesh! $200 is a LEETLE >high for my bottom feeder budget. And the feeding frenzy >bidding wars are ridiculous. Rob, I totally agree with what you've said and completely sympathize with you. I think many of us on the list are proud to be bottom feeders who try to make do with less than the perfect accessories. >I would like to know if: The spindle gear and reversing lever gears on >my 618 could be replaced with a custom made ones that have the correct >pressure angle to use change gears from the bigger lathes? I'll take a shot and there should be a few more people who will chime in on this. Setting aside pressure angle, the pitch is the main consider- ation. The Atlas 10 (and maybe the other big ones like the 12 inch) has 16 pitch change gears, whereas the 618 has 24 pitch ones. This means that for the same tooth count, the 16 pitch ones are 50% bigger. Your leadscrew gear would be about 3 inches in diameter instead of its present 2 inches. >I'd need to know if the diameter of the gears could allow for the >different tooth configuration and still give the correct tooth count. Well, I think replacing the spindle and tumbler gears is impossible because of the limited space; the spindle gear just slides in under the cover as it is. >Alternatively, could just the double gear on the reverser be >customized so that the larger gear is for the 618 pressure angle >and the smaller one for the bigger lathes pressure angle? This is a possibility (substituting pitch for PA in the question), but there are going to be a limited number of change gear combinations because of the space all the following gears take right up to the leadscrew gear. Plus there's still another big catch explained in the answer to your next question. >Does the change gear setup ever mesh with the larger gear of the >double gear? Yes, unfortunately it does. Overall, I think we're all stuck with having to bite the bullet and obtain the 24 pitch gears, or at least something close to that if we'd ever attempt to change the whole chain. For instance, if you somehow had some metric gears whose pitch was close to 24, they'd work fine if everything were replaced from spindle to leadscrew gear. Threading would still be english with the stock leadscrew. Hank ------- NOTE TO FILE: Whether your problem is making/repairing gears for a 6" lathe or for another machine, there is a lot of info in the Gears General file here. Also see "Atlas Parts General" and "Atlas Repair or Fitting". As I've written here before, there are many conversations about Atlas 6" lathes that were generic enough to apply to other lathes; consequently they were put into more generic files and not here. Keep an open mind and read other files and forums. Many ideas or tools or gadgets elsewhere can be modified or adapted for use on Atlas machines, of whatever size. ------- Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 00:19:34 -0000 From: "Rob Peterson" Subject: Re: 612 [atlas618lathe] > > All the true Atlas-made 6" lathes had a 1" nose -- some with > > 10tpi, older ones with 8tpi. "mf205i" wrote: > I just thought that you might like to know that my circa 1937, > plain bearing, 6 inch, Craftsman-Atlas 101.07300 has a > .75" x 16TPI spindle nose. The counter shaft is pinned directly > to the lathe and a threaded rod that extends through the > headstock controls the belt tension. Mike The 101.07300 series have a 3/4" spindle. It was the "upgraded" model starting with 101.07301 that had the 1" x 8TPI spindle (later changed to 10 TPI). I've seen a couple of the 07300's and they both had the smaller spindle nose. I don't know if the spindles will interchange (probably not). I do know that recently a 07300 series headstock was on fleabay. Rob P. ------- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 20:13:34 -0600 From: "Charles & Dorothy Brumbelow" Subject: Re: Re: New To Group - Have an Atlas 6-28 Serial # 017750 [atlas618lathe group] > NO, QC boxes from the big lathes won't fit the 618. There's > supposed to be plans on how to make your own QC gearbox, but > I've never seen or heard of anyone actually doing so. "Modeltec", a hobby machining magazine trying to pull the Phoenix trick after bankruptcy, published a six part series on building a QC for the Atlas/Craftsman 618 in the Jul thru Dec 1991 issues. The series includes the how-to for cutting the gears needed for the project -- including making flycutters for tooth profiles. The author of the series also published the material in book form, and copies (maybe in violation of copyright, maybe legit) are offered with some regularity on eBay. Back issues are available from time to time on eBay and from back issue specialists. The person who bought the assets from the bankruptcy and is trying to revive Modeltec may be able to supply issues as well. You might also want Jul thru Sep 1997 issues of "Modeltec" which include a three part series on computerizing a 618. Interestingly, the computer part of the deal used Quick Basic for the control activity rather than one of the CAM software packages. Village Press published two series on building a QC box for the Atlas 618 in its hobby machining magazines "Home Shop Machinist" and/or "Projects in Metal" and/or "Machinists Workshop". "Metalworking Book One" includes one of the boxes and "Metalworking Book Three" includes the other. Both books are in print and available from Village Press and, at a discount, from http:\\www.caboosehobbies.com One of these two articles had a second box built during the writing for photography and verification of procedures, and that box sold on eBay a couple of years ago -- unfortunately not to me. Hope this helps. Charles ------- Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:07:50 -0000 From: "gravelygravely" Subject: Re: Is this a record? [atlas618lathe] "azbruno" wrote: > It's the highest I can recall since this group started. > eBay item: 7594253150. Over $1400 for a 618. I guess it has to do with the near new condition of the lathe, the original manuals, boxes, etc. Sort of a time-capsule. Of course if I was a soul-less, cynical bas*&^% I might figure it this way strip it down, part it out: VALUE 3-j chuck = $95 4-j chuck = $75 milling vice = $200 change gears = $175 tool holders(4), knurl, thread, bits, bore-bar = $135 tailstock = $60 motor/switch = $30 chuck, arbors, dog, faceplate = $45 gear cover = $20 part out headstock = $200 lead screw = $25 Bed = $60 part out saddle = $150 counter shaft = $30 Manuals = $30 ===> TOTAL = $1330.00 ... hmmm it just don't add up ... Wait ... Being the only one to have in orginal condition, Atlas 618 lathe with accessories in orginal boxes = priceless + $1330. OK now it adds up, and I can relate, just can't pay-up. Back to bottom feeding. ------- Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:43:48 -0000 From: "Jason Spangle" Subject: Re: Is this a record? Must be someone who really wanted a barely-used machine... Or someone who didn't want to bother restoring an old/used one. That's nuts, one could find and buy a nice South Bend for that kind of money. Jason ------- Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:39:34 -0000 From: "speedphoto300" Subject: Re: Is this a record? No, the record is just over $2100, a little over a year ago. I kept a database for a couple of years and got sick of seeing the results. Hype is the single most effective way of pushing a price up. I tried to correlate tooling, condition, etc. but a spiffy description trumped them all. Joe ------- Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:12:02 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: New supplier link categories established at atlas618lathe One of the challenges involved in restoring, maintaining, and improving your small lathe is finding special parts and supplies designed especially for your lathe. Two new website link categories have just been added, and one particularly should prove to be very useful -- a group of suppliers who cater to atlas 618 lathe owners. The new categories are: Special tooling and parts for the 618 lathe General machining supplies Hank atlas618lathe founder ------- From: "emancandy" emanx~xxsasktel.net Date: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:25pm(PDT) Subject: Looking for Atlas 6-18 measurments [atlas_craftsman] Would anyone have a scan of the Atlas 618 lathe measurements? I have found the 10" detailed measurements. Just to clarify - I'm not looking for the standard bench mounting measurements found in the manual. [and later in this thread:] > So just which measurements are you interested in? Bruno Just overall machine dimensions; I'm welding up an elaborate bench for one, but I will not have the actual machine in my hands for several weeks! I don't want to grind it apart because I didn't do the proper research! Any overall lengths and depths would be handy. Some info I obtained for the manual (mounting hole distances) and I've scaled some other dimensions from photos. Does the published overall length of 33 ˝" include the tailstock handle? Thanks for any help! ------- From: "mf205i" mf205ix~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:25pm(PDT) Subject: Re: Looking for Atlas 6-18 measurments Hi, I have 3 of these things. The lathe is 35.5 including handle, and this does not leave room to operate or remove the tailstock or open the change gear cover. But there is a HUGE PROBLEM! All three of my lathes have different counter shaft arrangements. One high, one low, and one hung off of the lathe, very rare. Both the high and the low mounts are bolted to the table. The low one has the motor mounted to the left side of the countershaft. On the low countershaft lathe, the lathe with motor is about 45 inches wide! Good Luck, Mike ------- From: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:20am(PDT) Subject: Re: Looking for Atlas 6-18 measurments One measurement that anyone should remember when installing one of these things is the clearance to slide the tailstock off the end of the bed. Very difficult to do if the machine is in a corner. ------- From: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:47am(PDT) Subject: Re: Looking for Atlas 6-18 measurments And don't forget to provide room on the left side. You need to be able to open the gear cover and change the gears. But besides that, you may eventually have a knock-out bar or collet draw bar and you need enough room to get it aligned into the spindle. Bruno ------- Dremel Adapter for 618 [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Lou Balleweg" LouBallewegx~xxearthlink.net Date: Tue Jul 4, 2006 8:32 pm (PDT) Hi All, I have posted pictures of my adapter to mount a Dremel tool on the compound-rest of our lathe. They are in the Photos section,in an album called Lou's Dremel Adapter. Regards, Lou Balleweg ------- New collets and chuck for the 618 [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:29 pm (PDT) When I got my lathe a few years ago, I was looking into options for collets and didn't find much. It was looking like MT2 collets was the only real choice available. Not so any more! I just got an ER-25 collet chuck and collet set from LittleMachineShop and did my first work with it today. All in all, I'm very pleased. The collet chuck is mounted on an MT2 taper, so I still need to use the 3/8"-16 drawbar and lose the ability to run stock through the spindle. But there are a lot of advantages of the ER-25 collets over the MT2 collets. - With MT2 collets, every time you change the part you need to remove the collet, which means unscrewing the drawbar and knocking out the collet. With the ER-25 collet chuck, the MT2 arbor stays in and I can just remove the part or collet from the chuck... very quick and easy. - ER-25 collets go up to 5/8"; MT2 only 1/2". - The ER-25 collets have more range (about .040") than MT2 collets, which just have a couple thou, and there are more collets available. With a full set, you can hold about any size stock up to and a bit over 5/8". The set I got comes with 9 collets from 1/8" to 5/8" by 1/16". There are also collets available by 1/32". I can still run stock about 1 1/4" in with the collets... maybe a bit more. I going to be looking at the possibility of making a part to replace the back half of the collet chuck that will screw onto the spindle, thus allowing me to run stock completely through the headstock (as long as it's 1/2" or less). Usual disclaimer... I'm not connected with LittleMachineShop in any way, other than being a happy customer. Bruno ------- NOTE TO FILE: Of course there is much more about collets in the Cutters, Collets and Arbors text file here at http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Re: Spindle Handle [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:36 am (PDT) > I saw a spindle handle for a 618 in the photo section, now I can't > find it again. You might be thinking of mine... in the photos section under Bruno's Lathe. It uses an expanding mandrel and slips in and out very quickly. I don't ever keep it in when running under power. Pardon the crude handle portion. It was an early project and I was operating on very low budget (still do), meaning use what I could find around the shop rather than buying fancy cranks. I also was experimenting with some cutting methods. Another approach to a crank is to think of something like a bicycle pedal. If you do a Google search for "lathe spindle crank" (without the quotes) you'll see others that operate on the same principle. As for dimensions, I don't have them all written down, but my memory says I used a 12 degree taper. Hope this helps. Bruno ------- countershaft spindle [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "robert simone" ruff358x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Oct 2, 2006 10:53 am (PDT) Hi. New to the group here and have a couple questions. Can anyone tell me what kind of steel the countershaft spindle on an Atlas 6" lathe is made from. I just bought a used one and it is gouged and in general, buggered up. I filed the burrs off to remove the pulley and the shaft seems very soft. It is .499 diameter. I would like to make a new one. Also how do you remove the spindle from a lathe equipped with babbitt bearings. I have to replace the belt. Thanks to all and keep up the good work. Excellent board. Bob ------- Re: countershaft spindle Posted by: "speedphoto300" speedphoto300x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Oct 2, 2006 12:02 pm (PDT) The original is just mild steel, I made a replacement out of drill rod. Joe ------- Re: countershaft spindle Posted by: "Rob Peterson" harpyx~xxavenuecable.com Date: Mon Oct 2, 2006 12:33 pm (PDT) The shaft can be replaced with cold rolled steel bar turned to the correct diam. Buy the bushings first and measure them for id. They "should be" .503 id. If so the Od on the shaft is .500 to give the req'd .002-.003" clearance. If the new bushings are smaller than that, adjust the shaft diam to give the correct clearances. > Also how do you remove the spindle from a lathe equipped with > babbitt bearings. I have to replace the belt. To remove the spindle, pull the chuck and the backing plate. Next, loosen the set screw on the collar that locks the spindle gear inside the gear cover. Remove the collar, spacer, woodruff key, and gear. Pay attention and don't lose the lead ball inside the set screw hole in the collar. If you do lose it, a small fishing weight will work to replace it. Next, open the top cover and loosen the set screw on the bull gear (the big gear). It's the one 180 degrees OPPOSITE the locking pin down near the spindle shaft and not the one near the locking pin on the outer rim of the gear. Check that the setscrew in the center groove of the pulley isn't tightened all the way in. (It's NEVER supposed to be tightened against the shaft but....) Now, you'll need a couple of wooden wedges, a softfaced mallet (deadblow works perfectly) or a hammer and block of wood, a pair of needlenosed pliers and a large screwdriver. Position the spindle so that the locking pin on the bullgear is at 12 o'clock. Put the wedges in so that the bull gear is supported on each side between the gear and the headstock housing. The gear MUST be supported evenly or it can be broken during the removal. Use the mallet to drive the spindle from the gear end towards the tailstock end of the lathe. You only need to move it 1/4". Use the needlenosed pliers to pull up on the end of the woodruff key. You won't get it out directly - you have to rotate it out bit by bit as you drive the spindle forward. Once the key is out, you can drive the spindle out the rest of the way. Pay attention to the orientation of the rollerbearing on the gearcase end of the spindle so you can reinstall it the same way on the shaft. The whole operation shouldn't take more than 15 minutes even if you have a difficult to remove spindle/bull gear. An "alternative method" I've discovered is that you can sometimes loosen the large bushing screw & drive the spindle and bearing out at the same time. The woodruff key will push the large spindle bearing out as it passes through the headstock. You "may" be able to reverse this method for installation of the spindle into the headstock but I do not know if it can be done. If so, it's MUCH easier than fiddling with the pliers and the woodruff key in the recommended method of removal/installation. I'd recommend that the spindle be oriented so that the key is at the 9 o'clock position to take advantage of the slot for the bushing clamp for any "extra" clearance that may be needed. Use the screwdriver to loosen the screws on the bushings and remove them. If they don't just slip out you can pry GENTLY on the headstock to open the bushing clamp a bit. Not too much or you can break the headstock casting. The bushings are available at your local bearing supplier for less than $10 for both for the oilite bronze ones. You can get the correct replacement belt at the same place. Good luck. RP ------- Re: countershaft spindle Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Mon Oct 2, 2006 1:22 pm (PDT) > The shaft can be replaced with cold rolled steel bar turned to the > correct diam. Buy the bushings first and measure them for id. > They "should be" .503 id. If so the Od on the shaft is .500 to give > the req'd .002-.003" clearance. If the new bushings are smaller than > that, adjust the shaft diam to give the correct clearances. Fine, except that the bearings will compress somewhat when they are pressed into their housings. The fit that was fine before pressing them in will be too tight afterward. Better to allow a bit for the press fit, or to ream them after pressing in. Even better, ream with a long piloted reamer that will align the bores. John Martin ------- Re: countershaft spindle Posted by: "Bill Hardin" william.hardinx~xxverizon.net Date: Mon Oct 2, 2006 2:11 pm (PDT) Bob: Consider using a link belt instead of removing spindle. Should give you quieter, smoother performance in addition to ease of changing. Check the company ad at http://www.fennerdrives.com/high_performance_composite_vbelts/powertw ist_home.htm You can change the belt with no tools, at any link. They cost about $7/foot at auto stores, Grainger's, both woodworker's and metalworker's supply houses, etc. They must wear out eventually, but I haven't seen it happen yet. I don't work for these guys, but I do sell their 3/8" belts, which I don't think is the right size for the Atlas. Anyway, standard advice disclaimer. Bill Hardin http://www.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman 109 Lathe Support, Parts, Tooling & Upgrades ------- NOTE TO FILE: The 3/8" link belt is the correct size for the Atlas-made 6" lathes; perhaps not perfect, but as close as anyone makes now. ------- Re: countershaft spindle Posted by: "speedphoto300" speedphoto300x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Oct 3, 2006 6:58 am (PDT) > I'm a little confused here as to the removal of the headstock > spindle. Don't have roller bearings. The lathe has babbitt. Any > difference in removal procedure? Bob Bob: As you've described it so far, it's a 6 inch Craftsman made by Atlas, which would be model 101.07301. These have bronze bushings, not babbit, and the procedure described is correct, except that you have to remember to loosen the screw in the collar behind the pulley. You also have to remove the backgear if you are changing the belt. Joe ------- Re: countershaft spindle Posted by: "speedphoto300" speedphoto300x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Oct 3, 2006 9:36 am (PDT) >> Joe, Thanks, I didn't know that. Everything I have read to date has said that they either had Timken roller bearings or babbitt bearings in the headstock and if they were babbitt and damaged they would have to be poured and remachined. ... so I guess when I change the belt and see the bearings aren't good, they can be purchased and replaced. << The bronze bearings were unique to the Sears 6 inch, larger machines were indeed babbit or roller bearings. The was a newer 6 inch, also by Atlas, that did have roller bearings (model 101.21400). Joe ------- Re: countershaft spindle Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Tue Oct 3, 2006 3:06 pm (PDT) > How did the bronze bearings hold up as opposed to the babbitt bearings? I've had both so here goes: I started with a bronze bushing Sears lathe ... the round head atlas 6" sold by sears. I found that the bronze bushings were fine for slower turning or short bursts up to about 1000 RPM, 15 mins at 1K made the headstock get pretty warm. Uncomfortable to lean on :) You need to oil them several times a day and every time you fire it up. I swapped out the headstock for a timken bearing headstock ... I got a bare headstock from e-bay and bought bearings for it and turned a spindle (with the help of a friend with a larger lathe). I set up the spindle and finish reamed the taper and cut the threads and registers on the lathe it was going to live on. If you are trying to finish really small parts it is nice to have the higher speeds you can maintain with the roller bearings. I had a surplus center GE treadmill motor on it and it made switching belts rare. As far as finish and accuracy I really didn't see a difference. I did turn a replacement bronz bushing to replace the front bushing on mine. I used a cintered bronze bushing with the correct od and bored the ID to fit my spindle. The new bushing cut down chatter a bunch. HTH Glenn ------- Re: Hey, what do you guys..... [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Sun Oct 8, 2006 9:13 pm (PDT) Rob Peterson wrote: >What do you guys do to prevent swarf from getting under the carriage >and binding it up? I swear I have to stop and dig out the crud about >every few passes or the carriage gets too stiff to move with the >handwheel. It gets right under the bridge across the ways and packs >solid. Suggestions? BTW, this is on my little 618. If you can fit way wipers to it, do so. I got way wipers from Clausing for my first 10", it was one of the first things I got. Theirs are pretty complicated, a rubber wiper and a felt one stacked under a cover. If you can't get replacement wipers, then you'll have to make them. You could make the cover out of brass shim stock, the felt isn't too hard to get (but you want the really stiff natural wool type). Jon ------- Re: Hey, what do you guys..... Posted by: "Rob Peterson" harpyx~xxavenuecable.com Date: Mon Oct 9, 2006 12:04 pm (PDT) For further information: The 618 doesn't have way wipers. However, the swarf I'm having problems with isn't getting under the gibs and machined surfaces. It's getting packed up underneath the saddle "bridge" between the machined surfaces and on top of the ways. (Where the cross slide screw passes across the lathe bed.) I think there's just too little clearance between the underside of the saddle and the ways. There's only about .015" clearance between the top of the ways and the underside of the carriage. I just can't see any way of blocking the crud from getting under there either. It's a real PITA to have to stop and dig it out and I've had to stop and disassemble the lathe a couple of times. At this point I"m using a parts brush to move the swarf off the top of the bed 3 or 4 times during each pass. There's got to be a better way! RP ------- Re: Hey, what do you guys..... Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Mon Oct 9, 2006 4:43 pm (PDT) The 10 and 12" Atlas machines have a gap between two "rails", so most of the swarf falls through unless you make huge, long curly chips. Even then, there's quite a bit of space for chips to accumulate until you dig them out. For small stuff, you might be able to make a very wide V shaped piece that you'd put over the carriage with the point up. Then chips could roll off the vee and fall outside the ways. That's about all I can think of. Jon ------- Re: Hey, what do you guys..... Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Oct 9, 2006 8:10 pm (PDT) Rob: What kind of swarf are you generating? And how are you lubricating the ways? I have a 618 and machine brass, aluminum, hard rubber and plastics and have never had such a problem. I keep a brush at hand to periodically clear the ways, but nothing like you mention. Maybe you're taking far deeper cuts than I. Bruno ------- Re: Threading dial question [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:27 am (PDT) "Rob Peterson" wrote: >I need a threading dial for my 618. I've noticed that there seems to >be 2 different sized gears for the 618 dial. A large gear and a small >gear. Is there a difference or are the 2 dials interchangeable? There are two versions -- one has a 16 tooth gear, the other has 32. The thread dials are interchangable on the lathe; the gears are not interchangable on the thread dials. With a 16 TPI leadscrew, the 16 tooth dial will do one rotation per inch of carriage travel. On that rotation, there are 16 points of engagement for the half-nuts. The 32 tooth dial will rotate once per 1/2" of travel and have 32 points of engagement per rotation. When I bought my lathe, it came with the 32 tooth version. I wanted to do a 4 start 36 TPI thread. I set the gearing for 9 TPI, but found it difficult to get the proper alignment on the thread dial. Basically, I needed to engage on each quarter rotation of the spindle, which meant four places on 1/2 rotation of the dial. There are 16 points of engagement in that 1/2 rotation, so it was easy to miss the proper point when looking between the marked lines. I picked up a 16 tooth dial and that solved the problem. I can engage on the 4 lines of the dial... very easy to see. This worked so well because it was an odd thread count (9). I once needed to do a 4 start 32 TPI thread but it was not so easy. With 16 points of engagement per inch, I could do two leads, but not four. So I did two and then slipped the gear on the headstock for the other two. As for other threading requirements, you just need to think about the thread repeat. I found the information in the books may not be accurate if you have a different thread dial from what book is assuming. Bruno ------- Re: New Here. Need some help identifying a Craftsman Lathe.[atlas618lathe] Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:50 pm (PDT) "firefighter699" wrote: > I'm new here but not to lathes. I just picked up a Craftsman Lathe > which I believe is an MK1. I have posted pistures in the photo section > in a folder named "Jeff's Lathe". I looked all over for a data plate > to get the model number but can't find one. Any help identifying the > actual model number would be greatly appreciated. I also would like to > know if it is possible to use collets in the head stock and what is > involved if so. Thanks, Jeff Looks like a 101.07301, early MK1 lathe. It has the bronze bushings on the headstock and probably a 1"-8 TPI spindle thread. The right foot has only one bolt hole on the end, whereas later models had two bolt holes. The plate is generally located on the right end of the bed. I recently bought an ER-25 collet set which has an MT2 arbor. The collets run up to 5/8" even though the spindle is only 1/2". This was a great improvement for work holding. I got mine through LittleMachineShop, but I think there are others around. Bruno ------- Re: headstock spindle [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Rob Peterson" harpyx~xxavenuecable.com Date: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:22 pm (PDT) "symbiotechstudios" wrote: > Does any one have a source for replacement spindles for the headstock? I, and at least one other person on this list, made a replacement spindle for my 618. It's not that difficult to do so long as you have access to a lathe which is fairly accurate. If you have to use your existing spindle and/or the lathe which you're going to use is sloppy, then make a "temporary replacement" spindle on that lathe and install new bushings with the "temporary replacement" spindle in your headstock. Then turn your final spindle. You thread the small end and cut the keyways before installing. Thread the nose after installing and leave the temporary spindle solid. Bore and taper the final spindle after installation. (Hint: Check the angle of the morse taper on the old spindle BEFORE you remove it so that you know the degree setting on your compound when you go to taper the final spindle.) The temporary doesn't have to be nice looking. It just has to fit and have fairly good tolerances so that your final spindle can be made accurately. You can use cold-rolled steel for the spindles and all the data can be taken from your existing spindle. If you don't have a milling machine for the 2 Woodruff key slots, take both spindles to the machine shop for them to mill the slots. RP ------- Re: countershaft spindle [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "robert simone" ruff358x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:12 am ((PST)) Hello, I have a question about the back gear capabilities on the Atlas 6" lathe. Should the back gears always be engaged and if so, what advantage does it have over just the free wheeling pulley? Thanks, Bob ------- Re: countershaft spindle Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:33 am ((PST)) The back gears are used for slower speeds. When to use them depends on what you're doing. When engaged, the pin on the bull gear must be pulled out or else the spindle is locked up. When the back gears are not engaged, the pin must be in if you want the pulley to drive the spindle. Bruno ------- Taper attachment for 6 inch Atlas Lathe [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Jay Greer" redwitch1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:53 am ((PST)) Hi Guys: There was a taper attachment offered on eBay a week and a half ago and I ended up being the proud owner. Turns out that this is a new attachment for the Atlas 618 being made by a good guy named Tom Murdoc. Tom is a very accomplished craftsman and I must say that he is also a pleasure to deal with! The system is made, every bit as well, if not better than my lathe itself. All components are finished out in a most professional manner and even the castings are painted Atlas gray. Although I have yet to use the system, I am confident that it will perform perfectly. Tom's instructions are very well illustrated and easy to follow. So, if you are interested in a taper attachment for your 618, this one is the best thing to come down the pike since the lathe was first put on the market some sixty years ago! Cheers, Jay Greer ------- Re: Taper attachment for 6 inch Atlas Lathe Posted by: "RebHawk" rebhawkx~xxrebhawk.com Date: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:08 pm ((PST)) Yep, another just sold for north of 300 dollars. It looks like a very well built unit, but to my mind there is no way something simple as a taper attachment is worth that kind of money. Also, if you haven't used a taper attachment, be aware that you will need to indicate the taper to get it exact. The scales on any taper attachment are only meant as a rough guide. Regards, Lee ------- Re: Taper attachment for 6 inch Atlas Lathe Posted by: "Jay Greer" redwitch1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:06 pm ((PST)) Hi Lee, I do a lot of taper work that requires the tail stock to be set over. I think that this tool will pay for itself in time saved not having to mess with the tail stock. Cheers, Jay ------- Re: Taper attachment for 6 inch Atlas Lathe Posted by: "kendall" merc2dogsx~xxhotmail.com merc2dogs Date: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:18 pm ((PST)) A long while ago, I bought a Hendey because it had a taper attachment; best money I spent, easily earned back the cost in time savings alone. Currently most of my projects and jobs don't need a taper, but a few things I've been looking at do, so I may be in the market again in a while. For my old Hendey, I made up a follower for the taper attachment, then used the taper block to mount a part or profile as a guide, then used it as a copy lathe. Worked out pretty nicely for those multi part jobs. Set the stops, hook a spring or bungie to maintain pressure on the cutter, then sit back and watch! Every time I think of it I think of how stupid it was to get rid of that lathe! Ken -------- Re: Taper attachment for 6 inch Atlas Lathe Posted by: "RebHawk" rebhawkx~xxrebhawk.com Date: Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:42 pm ((PST)) I agree that they are useful. My point is that the cost that these particular attachments has been going for on eBay is outrageous. A taper attachment, after all, is a fairly simple device, well within the skills of most HSMs to make. The same is true (unfortunately) for most accessories for this lathe. Steady and follower rests are other items for the 618 which are easily made for a few dollars in material by the HSM, but which go for outrageous prices on eBay. I guess it comes down to a time-to-make-it-yourself vs. cost-to-buy-it-made issue. Regards, Lee ------- Re: Taper attachment for 6 inch Atlas Lathe [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:57 am ((PST)) Yes, there is an Atlas taper attachment for the 6" lathe. I have one. The casting numbers on the two mounting brackets are M6-761 (the part with the taper scale) and M6-762. Bruno ------- Re: Taper attachment for 6 inch Atlas Lathe Posted by: "Jay Greer" redwitch1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:54 am ((PST)) Lee: Well darned if I didn't miss that one! I stand corrected. One thing I will say about the new one, that is being offered, is that it takes full advantage of the entire length of the bed. The one pictured in the old description looks a bit short and definitely does not appear to be made as well as the new one is. Jay ------- Spindle set up [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Dan Margolien" danmargolienx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:58 pm ((PST)) Hello all! I'm a new member, with a new to me tool. I've got the Sear 101.214. I took it all down to clean and replace the belts. In reinstalling the spindle I think I've got everything ok, except would like clarification on the setting of the main drive gear and the pulleys. With the back gear, I can see how you don't engage the drive gear with the pulley, yet with the pin, you can lock them together. Is there a specific clearance to maintain between them when tightening the lock set screws? Or just set them where they are not locked, but the pin will lock them? Thanks in advance for your help. Sorry if this is in another posting, I didn't find it. Dan ------- Re: Spindle set up Posted by: "Hank" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:04 pm ((PST)) > With the back gear, I can see how you don't engage the drive gear > with the pulley, yet with the pin, you can lock them together. Is > there a specific clearance to maintain between them when tightening > the lock set screws? Dan, I don't know if there's an official spacing, but I put mine back together with about a 1/32 inch space. Hank ------- QCTP size options? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "old2l63" oldtoolx~xxfvi.net Date: Thu May 31, 2007 8:30 pm ((PDT)) Will the AXA size tool post work on a 618, or do I need to go down to the A2Z CNC ones? Mike ------- Re: QCTP size options? Posted by: "Hank" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 5, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT)) Mike: You really need even a smaller post than the AXA. Here's a picture of the two types side by side: http://home.earthlink.net/~rmteo/_uimages/P7190049.jpg That's from the TSE website which is listed in our links section under "Special tooling and parts for the 618 lathe." Hank ------- Re: QCTP size options? Posted by: "Al" aludtkex~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Jun 6, 2007 2:07 pm ((PDT)) Mike: You did the right thing by asking this group before purchasing. I wish I had known better. I bought a used AXA and I have had problems with it from the beginning, not because it was defective but because it is too big. I spent some time making it fit but it still doesn't work well. Live and learn I guess. Take Hank's advice. Al ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a great deal more about toolholders in general and tips for their use in the file Toolholders for Lathe on my site http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ Also see tips and ideas in the file Toolholders Taig or Sherline; some might be adapted to other lathes. ------- Re: I need a tailstock handle for a 618 [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jun 7, 2007 1:55 pm ((PDT)) "Vince Ancona" wrote: > Does anyone have an extra M1-47 handle that they would be willing to > part with for a reasonable price? Clausing still carries this part, > but I was hoping to find a used one on the cheap. Thanks, Vince Vince, if you don't mind being non-original, look on page 2136 and 2137 of the McMaster-Carr catalog. You can buy an adjustable replacement handle for less cost than the shipping. I put one on my tailstock and really like the adjustment. Of course, you could find a non-adjustable one for less. Bruno ------- 101.07300 vs 101.07301....newbie needs help [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "durantjud" durantjudx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 7:23 am ((PST)) I have inherited my Dad's 101.07300. He never gave me any lessons and did not use it that much. He was given it from a neighboring widow and he tinkered but never had any use for it. I have a shooting hobby and so many guys can make stuff and I can't even begin. So, seeing that it was free....why not. I have been reading and reading. The 7301 is the not the same as my 7300. I will post some pics I need to buy a manual and "how to use a lathe book"...any advice would be appreciated. Mine as the pictures will show does not have the "two gears" inside the headstock housing. Just a 4 belt pully. Lastly, I cannot figure out how to get the pulley to slide off the spindle. I have been able to break free the headstock. I have the thread drive gear and key out. Some hammering with bronz drift, it moves but not good for pully...and a long way to go. And, you guys say don't use an adjustable belt on ALU pullys...so I am trying not to. Any advice...so I can set up and "make chips"... Yes, this is a bronze bushing type...and I don't have a three jaw chuck...which I am told I will need. It was suggested I look at something new/used that is complete vs fixing up this old girl...but it would seem to me I should not throw in the towel yet. Thanks! ------- Re: 101.07300 vs 101.07301....newbie needs help Posted by: "cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net" Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 9:23 am ((PST)) Lathe chuck... Your spindle may be 1" x 8 tpi rather than the newer 1" x 10 tpi. Check before you buy. Have you examined the site http://www.lathes.co.uk/ It has a wealth of information about the Atlas lathes -- as well as many other brands and machines. Atlas published a very good "how-to" manual for its lathes. They show up regularly on eBay, and I believe Clausing still sells them. See http://www.atlas-press.com/index.htm Oh, and that Atlas site itself has some useful "how-to" information about replacing belts, etc. which would involve removing the pulley and spindle. http://littlemachineshop.com/ sells many things useful for Atlas lathes. Charles ------- Re: 101.07300 vs 101.07301....newbie needs help Posted by: "mf205i" mf205ix~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 5:53 pm ((PST)) The 07300 lathes are very rare. I have had one about twenty years and yours is only the fourth I have heard about. They were made for Sears, by Atlas, in the late 1930s. As you have found, they use a completely different headstock assembly than the later models. Note that on the one I have that the spindle runs on cast iron, the spindle taper is Morse taper #1, there is no back gear, and the spindle threads are ľ x 16. Change gears and other parts are the same as the later Atlas 6x18 lathes. To remove the spindle, remove the threaded collar, gear and key from the left side. Back off the bearing adjusters and remove the setscrew from the pulley. Be sure to check under the setscrew to determine if there is another setscrew under it. Gently-carefully heat the pulley, directing the heat into the inside of the pulley while rotating the spindle. If spit sizzles, that is more than enough heat. The zinc pulley will expand much more than the spindle and the heat will soften the 80 year old gunk. The spindle should slide out by hand pressure or at the most, a very light tap from a block of wood. I own all three models of the rounded Atlas 6x18 lathes from 1937 to 1968. The one you have is not as rigid as the later ones due to the smaller spindle. That being said, the one I have is the best fitted and produces the most accurate, best finished parts of the three. Oil it every time; use HSS with a lot of back rake with no to very little radius, get a 4 jaw instead of a 3 and you can make almost anything. Because you don't have a back gear, I would suggest that you use a 1750 or slower motor with the smallest pulley you can find. With this setup I turned a 2" wide by 4.5" Dia. Chunk of A36 into a double groove sheave for a snatch block that I built, as well as many machine parts in 4140. These are not very fast but they can do good work. Get the Craftsman Manual of Lathe Operations book from E Bay, and the HTRAL - How To Run A Lathe book by South Bend, http://www.wswells.com/ http://www.jjjtrain.com/vms/library.html http://opensourcemachine.org/node/10 Have fun, Mike ------- NOTE TO FILE: While folks are trying to be helpful in suggesting the Atlas manual can be obtained from auction sites, many of those sites are selling illegal photocopies of Atlas copyrighted material. So please be careful and only buy auction books that are original. Clausing (Atlas) still retains copyright to their manual and will happily sell you an original. (See the Atlas Parts General file on my site for contact information.) This fine company is a rare supporter of our machines by still providing parts and information decades after other companies have abandoned their customers. Buying legitimate copies of this manual is a good way to respect the copyright holder and encourage them to continue supporting us. ------- Left Bearing Race Too Tight on Spindle? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "alekos52" alexander.alexandridisx~xxdelphi.com Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 10:51 am ((PST)) On my recently purchased 101.21400 (Timken), I had a hard time pushing the spindle out because the inner race of the left bearing was too tight (press fit) on the spindle! Pushing by hand or light tapping with a "Hammer and Broomstick piece" would not do anything to move the spindle towards the right. Plus I did not want to damage the bearings with impact blows (brinelling). So, I put a piece of all-thread through the spindle, set up a large diameter tube around the front of the spindle against the right sidewall of the headstock housing and torqued the spindle out with no damage or problems. I can describe this in more detail if someone is stuck with an immovable spindle (old dried up grease can create big problems). The point of this posting: The inner race of the left (smaller) bearing will not slide over the spindle (takes a press fit to assemble). This is probably not the way it was designed (because one cannot do the final preload adjustment with the threaded collar with this kind of fit). The spindle diameter is OK since the bronze bearings for the pulleys that ride on the same diameter are nice and free to spin. Questions: Is the NORMAL? Could I have an undersized bearing? The left roller bearing size is TIMKEN 07079 Should I dress the spindle down or should I look for an another bearing? Any and all advice is welcome. Alex ------- Re: Left Bearing Race Too Tight on Spindle? Posted by: "Jake" jake09305x~xxbellsouth.net Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 5:54 pm ((PST)) Alex, FWIW, from the Timken Catalog the 07079 cone "Single-Row Straight Bore" has a 20.000 mm (0.7874") bore and takes a 07196 cup. These are the cone and cup called for for the Atlas 618. The other bearing is a 07100 with a 25.400 mm (1.000")cone and a 07196 cup. So, the spindle would be 1.000" and 20.000 mm where the bearings are mounted. My 07079 is a "light, but push fit" on the spindle. I would look for a bruise or some raised burr on that area of the spindle. A micrometer or caliper would be useful to test the "roundness" of the spindle. You might go round the inside of the bore with a small scraper to remove any trace of dried on grease. The bearing is very hard and not likely to be marked by the scraper. But be careful...only the dried grease, please! Jake ------- Re: Left Bearing Race Too Tight on Spindle? Posted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 6:04 pm ((PST)) Those components are designed to be a press fit. You press them onto the shaft a specific amount and then adjust the preload from there. ------- Re: Left Bearing Race Too Tight on Spindle? Posted by: "ronpat" ronpat0471x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 6:44 pm ((PST)) I've reworked two, one of them worked great, but the other for some reason was doing just like you're talking about. I finally just had to use some wet (I think it was 2200 grit) on the spindle. It just took very little work. I never did find out what caused it. ------- bull gear on 6" 101.2craftsman [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "fdschtower" fdschtowerx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:07 am ((PST)) Hey, my bull gear started popping out when I was facing a piece of metal. I removed the set screw above the pin. The spring was pretty well scwootched, no ball. What size is the detent ball and what size is the spring? Any idea on where one could get them?? Thanks in advance for any help. Fred ------- Re: bull gear on 6" 101.2craftsman Posted by: "Robert Rochelle" irene4popsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:27 pm ((PST)) I fixed my 618 with a 1/8" dia. ball from a ball bearing race I broke open. You can find 1/8" balls on the internet, but you have to buy a bunch of them. I got lucky -- just had the bearing lying around in a coffee can of junk. For a spring I used the one from a disposable butane lighter & cut it off a little at a time until it seemed to work right. Been using it for about 8 or ten months now & it's holding up ok, but I don't use it every day. I tried several balls, visited an auto parts house, my mechanic, tried the steel shot from a shotshell, but anything over .125 just wouldn't work, & I didn't want to enlarge the hole. ------- Re: bull gear on 6" 101.2craftsman Posted by: "kendall" merc2dogsx~xxhotmail.com Date: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:52 pm ((PST)) If you're near an Ace hardware, they have loose ball bearings in the hardware section sold each for approx $0.20 Not cheap if you need 100, but if you only need one or two it's better than more shelf stuffing if you have to buy 100. Ken ------- 6"atlas lead screw [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "tomnjan64" tomnjan64x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:03 pm ((PDT)) I'm new to the group, and feel I've learned a lot just from reading the messages. I recently came to own a 6" atlas lathe, quite old and apparently used hard. While turning a small axle, the carriage stopped traveling. The lead screw seems to be very worn at about the center. Do you know where I might buy a new one and half nut parts? How involved is it to change these parts? thanks for any help you can give tom ------- Re: 6"atlas lead screw Posted by: "Ron Shaw" RS0255x~xxaol.com Date: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:45 pm ((PDT)) Lead screws are available as replacement parts from both Sears and Clausing at a cost of $153.61. Half nuts are likewise available for $35 a pair. My assumption here is that your machine has an ACME 16tpi, 1/2" x 31.5" length lead screw. About the only other option is to make one from scratch, which will be a problem if the lead screw on your machine is shot, as you will be unable to cut a decent thread in addition to your current power feed issues. It could be that new half nuts will solve your problem. My advice would be to start there first, and see if that is a fix. ------- Re: 6"atlas lead screw Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:31 pm ((PDT)) It's real easy to change them. Not sure if Clausing still carries the lead screw, but I believe they do have the half nuts. You can always make a new lead screw - Acme threaded rod is available fairly cheaply. Before you think about replacing parts, though, I'd take the half nut assembly apart and give it a good cleaning. The half nuts can get packed with chips, dust and old grease, and picking out the crud is often enough to get things working again. Dental pick and a toothbrush with solvent should do it. To get at the half nuts, remove the right hand lead screw bearing. Slide off the tailstock and then the carriage. Note the orientation of the gib, and you may be able to put it all back together without loosening and re-adjusting it. John Martin ------- Re: 6"atlas lead screw Posted by: "Ron Shaw" RS0255x~xxaol.com Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:36 am ((PDT)) Donald Jardine wrote: > I also need a lead screw for a 618. I have been all over the Web, and I cannot find any acme screw stock that is 1/2" 16 TPI. There is a good selection of 1/2" Acme. but not at 16 tpi. If you know of a source, could you please let us all know? Thanks Don Jardine < If I may make a suggestion ... In the recent past (like a couple of weeks ago) I have been in contact with Jan Michael at Tallgrass Tools {http://www.tallgrasstools.com) regarding the unavailability of 1/2 x 16tpi ACME threaded rod and/or replacement 618 lead screws, except from Sears/Clausing at what seems to me to be an exhorbitant price. After exchanging several e-mails with Jan, including pics of the part in question, dimensions, etc., he seemed to be at least moderately interested in the possibility that producing the finished part, and/or perhaps a kit that could be finished by the user, had some commercial viability. Tallgrass already markets a kit for making larger crossfeed dials for the 618, so I felt the lead screw thing fell right into their product line. As things developed, my own interest in pursuing this subject with Jan was dampened after receiving a new set of half nuts from Sears and installing them. That has at least temporarily solved my own threading/feeding issues, so I have not followed up with Tallgrass. My suggestion would be that 618 owners that would be in the market for a lead screw or lead screw kit should e-mail Tallgrass and express your interest. Jan may be contacted by going to the Tallgrass web site noted above and going to the "Contact Us" menu option. ------- 6" atlas lead screw Posted by: "tomnjan64" tomnjan64x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:38 am ((PDT)) Many thanks to all who helped with the question about the worn lead screw. As suggested, I removed and cleaned the half nut pieces and that seems to have fixed the problem. thanks again for the help, tom ------- Re: Detailed instructions on using back-gear [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Hank" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:26 pm ((PDT)) > I still don't know just how and when to use the index pin and how to > go about moving the back gear assembly. Any proper instructions will > be appreciated. Al: It's always good to ask and everyone should feel free to ask any questions they may have on this list. The lever lever on the right engages the back gear when it's brought forward. It's just visible in the back gear illustrated photos. The simple rule is that the spindle pulley is pinned when the backgear is not being used, and unpinned when the back gear is engaged. You can test that everything is okay by moving the belt by hand before you start your motor. If you have the back gear disengaged and the pulley unpinned, no harm will be done but the lathe spindle will not turn. However, if you leave the pulley pinned and the back gear engaged, the whole mechanism will be locked up. Not a good thing to have if you start up the motor. That lockup condition is sometimes used deliberately to help remove a stubborn chuck, with just hand force applied to the chuck, but be careful because our lathes are not indestructible. Hank ------- Re: Detailed instructions on using back-gear Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:04 pm ((PDT)) Perhaps knowing how the back gear drive works will help clarify how to use the back gears. On the spindle, the small gear to the left of the pulleys is affixed to the pulleys. But they are not fixed to the spindle. The bull gear (to the right of the pulleys) is fixed to the spindle. When operating without the back gears, the bull gear is pinned to the pulleys. The drive belt turns the pulleys, which turns the bull gear which turns the spindle. Very direct. When using the back gears, you pull the pin on the bull gear so it is disconnected from the pulleys. The drive belt will turn the pulleys, which turns the gear to the left which is engaged to the back gears, causing the back gears to turn the bull gear to turn the spindle. As Hank said, if you enable the back gears but don't pull the pin on the bull gear, it's in a lock up situation. Generally turning on the motor will just cause the belt to slip, but that's recommended. Bruno ------- Just wandered in... [atlas518lathe] Posted by: "Eric Crum" ericthenorse2002x~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:04 pm ((PDT)) Howdy, just wandered over from the Atlas_Craftsman group and thought I should say howdy... I have put up a few pictures of my new baby in the photo area (Eric's Atlas 6" ) I am trying to resolve some issues with the cross slide nut, and hopefully I will be making lots of shavings soon. ------- Re: Just wandered in... Posted by: "ron Pat" ronpat0471x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:32 pm ((PDT)) Let me guess, on the x slide nut, you've been trying to get it smooth on the extremes of it's movements. It works good everywhere but the ends of its travel. If not how did you get them to do right? I've got two 618's they are perfect except for that. ------- Re: Just wandered in... Posted by: "cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net" Date: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:27 pm ((PDT)) The nature of the beast is that most action probably takes place in the middle of the screw, which means the middle is burnished more by the cross slide nut than the ends. With a new screw and a new nut, you could probably lap the screw from end to end before the parts are installed and get a more uniform feel for awhile. I suspect, though, that in due course you would be back to the "fine in the middle but not at the ends" situation. Charles ------- Collet Help for 6" Lathe [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "nc2ln" nc2lnx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:00 pm ((PDT)) I have a Sears 101.21400 and for years have used it to work on round and spinning pieces parts. I now need to thread some copper tubing and small brass piping for which holding in the lathe with a collet and using a die in a tailstock die holder has been recommended as an ideal solution to my needs with my stll-learning abilities. I am familiar with collects as used in my small (R8) milling machine, and my accessories and parts box that came with the lathe decades ago contains at least the collet handwheel and a nut to protect the spindle threads but no chuck or whatever to hold the collets and no collets. My "I am entirtely new to this never done collets in a lathe before" question is what is a proper setup and where do I need to go to get what missing tools? ------- Re: Collet Help for 6" Lathe Posted by: "cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net" Date: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:50 pm ((PDT)) There are three ways to deal with this. One is to find an original or reproduction setup from when Atlas made the lathe and its accessories. Not cheap, and may or may not still be accurate if you go the original route. The collets for an original or reproduction setup are not cheap and not much variety either. A second approach is to obtain a set of MT2 collets and make (or buy) the threaded rod to tighten them. Maybe $50 with new made import collets. The third, and most expensive and most versatile, is to acquire a collet chuck for 5C collets which will screw onto your spindle, and collets as needed. Check http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3047 I've also seen similar items on eBay with the 1" x 10 backplate already fitted. Charles ------- A new collet choice is in the works Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:12 am ((PDT)) I've been working with Joe at AutoDrill to develop a new ER-32 collet chuck for the 618 with a 1"-10 spindle thread. Unlike the chucks readily available that use a Morse Taper arbor, this one will thread right onto the spindle and allow stock to pass through the headstock. This is not an Asian import but a nice American made chuck... very solid and smooth working. The ER-32 collets run to about 3/4" (20mm) in diameter. Obviously anything over 17/32" won't go through the headstock, but shorter lengths can still be held well. I've been using a set of ER-25 collets with a chuck on an MT2 arbor, but this new chuck is going to make a big difference as I often work with 16mm to 18mm materials which are beyond the range, and I'll be able to work with longer pieces of stock than before. The really nice thing about the ER collets (as opposed to 5C and others) are that each collet can handle a range of about 1mm, meaning the full set of collets will cover the full range of materials. So as an aside for anyone buying ER collets... get the metric collets. I bought the ER-25 collets in a set with inch measurements and the problem is that there is a lot of overlap so one needs to buy more collets to cover the same range. Anyway, the new collet chuck is not yet being manufactured, but hopefully will be in the relatively near future. My disclaimer... I'm not in any way affiliated with AutoDrill... I just happened to get involved in specifying and testing as a result of some communications on a machining board. I am hoping there will be enough interest to see that it's viable to produce in quantity as it's a great additional tool for these lathes. As for pricing, I don't know. But I would expect it would be in the same range as similar high quality tools. Bruno ------- 64 T change gears [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "bobwieking" bobnancyx~xxkvalley.com Date: Thu Oct 2, 2008 8:32 am ((PDT)) Help! I really need to purchase two (2) 64 T change gears for my 12" Atlas lathe. I believe that I am dead in the water for 32 tpi threads without them. Bob Wieking ------- 64T change gear Posted by: "hfrietsch" hfrietschx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Oct 2, 2008 12:13 pm ((PDT)) you don't need two 64T gears,only 1-- read the chart!!not the picture 1-64t,, 1-20t(spacer),,1-56t,,1-48t,,1-24t and link to the 32t stud gear,, check it out,hope I read it right. ------- Re: 64T change gear Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Oct 3, 2008 9:02 pm ((PDT)) Bob, I see that hfrietsch has given you an answer that requires one 64 tooth gear. I didn't quite follow his set up and it's not clear whether you have any 64 tooth gears so lets analyze your problem, Your lathe has an 8 TPI leadscrew. The thread you wish to cut is 32 TPI. This is 4 times the TPI of your leadscrew or 1/4 the pitch of your leadscrew. In order for you to cut a 32 TPI thread with this leadscrew you have to make the leadscrew turn 1/4 turn for every revolution of the spindle. The standard method given on the Threading chart is to reduce the speed by a factor of 2 (32 driving 64) and then to repeat the same reduction (32 driving 64). This will reduce the leadscrew speed to 1/4 of the spindle speed, the result you're looking for. But it doesn't matter how you go about the 1 to 4 reduction as long as that's what you wind up with. If you have one 64 tooth gear try: 32 stud driving 48 on intermediate stud. Outside of the 48 mount a 24 and have it drive a 64 on the leadscrew. You may need to add an idler to make this span between the stud and leadscrew, if you don't understand about idlers ask. This calculates out, 48 / 32 = 1.5. 64 / 24 = 2.666666667. Multiplying the two together = 4, which is the result you want. The way to set this is: spacer on leadscrew with 64 outboard of spacer, 48 on intermediate stud with 24 outboard of 48, mesh 24 with 64, mesh 48 on intermediate stud with 32 stud, add idlers as required. If you have one 64 tooth gear you could also mount a spacer on the leadscrew with the 64 outboard of the spacer, mount spacer and idler gear on one or two intermediate studs and mount them so that they bring the drive down to the 64 directly from the 16 on the stud. Same 1 to 4 reduction in a single step. If you have no 64s, try: 32 stud driving 32 on 1st intermediate stud. Outside of the 32 on the 1st stud mount a 20 and have it drive a 40 on the 2nd intermediate stud. Inboard of the 40 on the 2nd intermediate stud mount a 24 and have it drive a 48 on the leadscrew. Not certain whether this will set on the lathe, the gears might interfere with each other. This calculates out, 32 / 32 =1, 40 / 20 = 2, 48 / 24 = 2. Multiplied together, 1 x 2 x 2 = 4. The way to set this is: 48 on leadscrew with spacer outboard of 48, 24 on 2nd intermediate stud with 40 outboard of 24, mesh 24 with 48, 32 on 1st intermediate stud with 20 outboard of 32, mesh 20 with 40, mesh 32 on 1st intermediate stud with 32 stud. This shouldn't need idlers but use as required. Firstly, I'm not trying to discourage you from getting the 64s. The more gears you have and the greater number of different tooth counts you have, the more flexibility you will have on such setups. The reason for providing the different setups given above is both, to provide a solution to your immediate problem, and to illustrate the difference between being stuck because you don't have the standard equipment and understanding there may be ways you can work around the problem. Hope this helps. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. [And in a later message] Bob, I thought of another one, probably the easiest not requiring a 64. 16 drives idler on 1st intermediate stud which drives a 32 on 2nd intermediate stud, then 24 inboard of 32 on 2nd intermediate stud drives 48 on leadscrew. This should set without difficulty. -------- Re: 64 T change gears Posted by: "bill phelps" sweetwaterent2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 2:01 pm ((PDT)) If you are looking to put steel gears on a small lathe like the Atlas, don't do it. If you have a problem with something you would want one of the gears to break before something more costly??? Think about it. I have used aluminum gears and they work very good. Bill ------- Re: 64 T change gears Posted by: "ghettodad59" ghettodad59x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Oct 3, 2008 11:34 am ((PDT)) I bought the cutters for 24DP 14.5%PA gears to make gears for my shop built QC gearbox and have extra gears available. They are made from 6160 aluminum and fit the 1/2" double keyway shafts of the 618 lathe. I have all sizes available at $10 a piece plus shipping. Email me directly if you are interested. Thanks, Dion ------- Re: 64 T change gears Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 9:50 am ((PDT)) Dion, I'd be interested if you offered them in steel or cast iron. While we're at it, have you posted pictures of your QC gearbox? Is it a published design or your own? Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: 64 T change gears Posted by: "ghettodad59" ghettodad59x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Oct 6, 2008 8:00 am ((PDT)) I'll post pictues of my QC gearbox when it's complete, which may be a long time from now. I have lots of projects and work is interfering with my hobbies. It is my own design and probably overkill for the job it will do. Your point about steel or cast iron gears is well taken. In fact, what I assume was the original tumbler gear (the first one in the gear train) was made of nylon on my 618 lathe and was sacrificed during a crash. I ordered a replacement from Clausing and received a 20-tooth aluminum change gear with unnecessary keyways. It's nice that they still make parts for our lathes but this particular part was not everything I had hoped for. Since then, I started making my own gears and cut some tumblers out of nylon. No crashes yet but I'm sure I will someday I feel good about limiting the damage to a single gear. Dion ------- NOTE TO FILE: There was a conversation on cleaning a sticky thread dial on a 618 Atlas, but the subject starting Oct 25, 2008 was generic and can be found in the "Thread Dial and Half-Nuts" file in the Lathe Section of http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- A short explanation of back gears (on 618, at least). [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Feb 4, 2009 4:50 pm ((PST)) On the spindle, the small gear to the left of the pulleys is affixed to the pulleys. But they are not fixed to the spindle. The bull gear (to the right of the pulleys) is fixed to the spindle. When operating without the back gears, the bull gear is pinned to the pulleys. The drive belt turns the pulleys, which turns the bull gear which turns the spindle. Very direct. When using the back gears, you pull the pin on the bull gear so it is disconnected from the pulleys. The drive belt will turn the pulleys, which turns the gear to the left which is engaged to the back gears, causing the back gears to turn the bull gear to turn the spindle. Bruno ------- I can't get the Bull Gear pin (p) back in [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" Date: Wed Feb 4, 2009 7:23 pm ((PST)) I am assuming you have a plunger like on my Atlas. (As I remember, later models had a lever kind of lock.) But with the plunger that locks the bull gear to the spindle which is pulled out to a detent position when using back gear, there is a detent on that plunger that holds it "out of engagement" and another detent to hold it in engagement when on direct drive. Now if you or someone else has pulled that pin out all the way (free of the hole in the casting) that detent ball and spring has fallen out or is part way fallen out and blocking the hole where the plunger goes. It is a fiddly kind of job to get that little detent ball and spring back into its hole and at the same time insert the plunger. By memory (and it's been quite a few years) I think I used a small screw driver to lift the plunger, then inserted a short piece of rod into the hole from the pulley side to hold the spring and ball up where it belongs. Then use the plunger to push the short chunk of rod on through leaving the spring and ball to finally drop into the groove on the plunger. Then sit down and realize why Atlas went to the lever system on later models. Plus tell yourself never to pull the plunger out all the way again. Just until the detent is engaged. ------- Re: Drawings for "Special" Change Gear Bracket for 618? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:58 pm ((PST)) Mon Feb 9, 2009 9:39 pm (PST), r.leehawkins writes: >I searched the post archives here, but could not find an answer. The 1957 (17th) edition of the Atlas "Lathe Operation" book mentions a special change gear bracket for the 618 that provides a position "D". I'd like to fabricate one of these. Does anyone have a drawing of this part? This bracket is mentioned on pp. 173-176. < Lee and others, The item you're looking for is M6-735 Extension Bracket. This consists of M6-25M Metric Gear Bracket Extension, a couple of hex bolts with washers and hex nuts, and an extra change gear bushing assembly. I believe these items collectively were offered as an optional attachment at one time, 40 or more years ago, but no longer. In order to replicate this for yourself, besides the extra change gear bushing you will need the drawing for M6-25M plus Bulletin M6-735-1 which shows the assembly and lists 3 additional metric pitches, 0.5, 1.75, and 2.0 mm. Additionally, in old copies of the change gear charts published in the Manual of Operations, setups for 9.5, 19, 31, 37, 59, 67, 68, 74, 76, and 79 TPI plus carriage feeds of .004" and .001046" were listed. I have the drawing, the bulletin, and three pages listing the extra pitches, but right now my scanner isn't installed. At some point I will reinstall the scanner at which time I'll post the five pages to the files section of the group site. In the meantime, if anybody wants to chase down the information on their own the necessary information is listed above. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Power cross feed article in HSM or MW? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "markjohanhatch" mark2382x~xxhotmail.com Date: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:03 pm ((PDT)) I recall that there was once an article and plans in either Homeshop Machinist or Machinist Workshop on a modification to the 618 to add a power cross feed. I believe the mod was to put a bracket on the back and extend the cross feed screw. I went through the index at Village Press but couldn't find the article. Any pointers? I would be happy with a stepper adapter. Otherwise I get to go 15+ years of magazines this weekend... Thanks Mark ------- Re: Power cross feed article in HSM or MW? Posted by: "Jacjie Rochelle" irene4popsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri May 1, 2009 2:39 pm ((PDT)) Is this any help? From: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/atlas_618_gems.txt > I have had two six inch Atlas lathes in my time and on both I added a very simple automatic cross feed which the original "six" lacked. I secured a flanged wheel to the left hand end of the lead screw (drilled and tapped the end) and replaced the handle on the cross slide with a similar wheel. Put a clothes line pulley on the edge of the bench and a good strong string from the lead screw wheel to the pulley thence to the wheel on the cross slide. As the lead screw revolved it wound the string up from the cross slide wheel and imparted a steady motion to the cross slide when facing. Simple, crude and workable. (Of course you have to remember to lock the carrage, or you get funny shapes as the string both turns the cross slide wheel and pulls the carrage along the bed.) < ------- Re: power crossfeed on atlas Posted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri May 1, 2009 2:40 pm ((PDT)) At least one person who used to read this list has written some about building a power crossfeed using pulleys and ropes: putting one pulley on the leadscrew and another on the crossfeed screw. I haven't ever seen pictures. A stepper seems like a good idea, since you could vary the speed as it moves towards the center. You could also use a gearmotor if you're not aiming for CNC control, merely something to slowly spin the crossfeed inwards. It'd be easier to attach a motor to the compound slide, using the bolts that attach the slide screw bushing to the slide itself, but that's not as flexible as the cross slide. ------- Re: Power cross feed article in HSM or MW? Posted by: "markjohanhatch" mark2382x~xxhotmail.com Date: Sat May 2, 2009 2:40 pm ((PDT)) Interesting! I bet that works great! I also have seen people use battery operated screwdrivers or drills and drive a nut on the cross slide. I am thinking of this in the context of Electronic Lead Screw http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ sort of a mid-point between manual and CNC. (There is also a yahoo group on the ELS.) I spent an (enjoyable) hour going through my back issues of Home Shop Machinist. I did find a series of articles on converting the 10 inch atlas to CNC ready. And as part of that series, they show how to mount a stepper on the cross slide and another stepper on the lead screw. In case anybody else is interested, the issues are: May/June 1993 Sept/Oct 1993 Jan/Feb 1994 May/June 1994 I see no reason why those plans can't be used on the 6 inch. Thanks all! Mark ------- Is it just me [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "J Wagstaff" wagstajox~xxkos.net Date: Mon May 4, 2009 3:07 pm ((PDT)) John Meacham wrote: "This is only my personal impression and may have no basis in fact or truth. I suppose buying a new Atlas in Canada would suffer from the rate of exchange at that time which would have made a US tool much more expensive than an English machine. (I know when I started this hobby I could purchase castings etc from England much cheaper than here in the U.S.)" If I remember correctly at that time( ~ 1950) the Canadian dollar was worth more than the US dollar. ------- Re: Is it just me Posted by: "Robert Silas" robert.silasx~xxvideotron.ca Date: Mon May 4, 2009 4:47 pm ((PDT)) In 1957 the Canadian dollar was 6% highr than the USA dollar. I bought a used 6" Atlas/Craftsman in 1962 for $40. As new, it was sold by Sears Canada; I estimate the original price around $60. ------- 6" Atlas Lathe End Mill Holder Drawbar [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "bob" atwatterkentx~xxhotmail.com Date: Wed Jul 1, 2009 1:27 pm ((PDT)) I have had the mill holder set from a 6" Atlas lathe for a while and its authenticity has come into question. Does an original have a keyed slot on the wheel end of the threaded shaft but the hand wheel is taper pinned to the shaft and does the chromed wheel have a hole cast into it for a finger turn knob, but no knob, as shown in the Atlas Lathe Operation manual? I saw what I thought was a new one a while back and it seemed to have the same design peculiarities. Thank you, Bob M. ------- Re: 6" Atlas Lathe End Mill Holder Drawbar Posted by: "David G. Sampar" dsamparx~xxptd.net Date: Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:29 pm ((PDT)) Yes... I have an M6-945 Milling Cutter Holding Assembly in the original box with the instructions/parts list and that is how it came. The pin is listed as a groove pin, not a taper pin. David ------- Newbie, Followed home by a 618 [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "TomF" TWFAUSTx~xxAOL.com Date: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:27 pm ((PDT)) I just acquired a 618 yesterday, so I sought out this group. The history I have on it is that I bought it from a welding shop. They told me it was from a hospital maintenance shop. Dirty, but it doesn't look like it has had much use. I apologize for the length of this post, but I want to get started with it. It needs some "restoration", but not a complete overhaul. It has the Timkin bearing headstock, Serial Number is 026289. First a few questions. Can anyone tell me the age of this machine? Since I will probably paint it, is there a source for decals, particularly the Timkin decal? It came without a motor. So a few questions. What is the correct size for the motor pulley? I assume a 1735 rpm motor. I have a reversing motor and barrel switch, which I think is from a 10" Atlas. Is there a usual place to mount the barrel switch? I haven't got it cleaned up yet, but there seems to be a problem with the half nuts, are these available? Also need a few small parts. I see the "for sale/wanted" section is empty, so I posting it here. Mine is branded Atlas, but for reference I am using a Craftsman parts diagram I found on the web at "old woodworking machines": http://www.owwm.com/pubs/222/1149.pdf Compound rest: Adjusting screw (broken at usual place, the handle mount. I have the handle) Part # M6-305 Tool post beveled washer, Part # M6-40 Tailstock: Spindle lock sleeve #M6-45 Spindle lock handle #M6-42 Once again, I apologize for a long introductory post. ------- Re: Newbie, Followed home by a 618 Posted by: "stevetbon1" jstudiox~xxtbaytel.net Date: Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:07 pm ((PDT)) Hi Tom. Welcome to this happy group of metal turners. I can't answer all your questions but hope the following helps. Age of a particular machine is unknown by the factory. Possibly someone here has an original bill of sale and can estimate your machine's age by comparing it with their serial number. There has been some speculation about guessing a machine's date of assembly based on dates in castings, but that may be pretty rough. Someone here may have reproduced the decal for complete restoration purposes but most folks here are users and only concerned about making the lathe work properly. My 618 has its original Atlas 1/3 HP 1725 RPM capacitive start motor. A used 1/4 to 1/2 HP capacitive start motor should be fine, but larger than that might be hazardous to the health of your machine. Such motors turn up regularly at the local Restore (Habitat for Humanity sales outlet) for anywhere from 5 to 10 dollars, and you can find other local sources. A current parts price list and the half nuts and the other parts you want are still available from Clausing (Atlas bought out Clausing but then adopted the more prestigious Clausing name). Some parts are available from Sears or elsewhere, but usually at marked up prices since they came from Clausing. You need to get to know that fine lady Jolene (Jo) Olds, who is the Customer Service Manager, or one of the good folks at Clausing Parts & Service Dept in Goshen, IN. Phone: (800)535-6553 or (574)533-0371 Fax: (574)533-0403 E-mail: infox~xxclausingsc.com or joldsx~xxclausingsc.com Website: http://www.clausing-industrial.com/service-std.htm Address: 811 Eisenhower Drive South P.O. Box 877 Goshen, Indiana 46527-0877 A lot of the information you will need can be found in the files at this group, or in the files at the Yahoo group atlas_craftsman You might want to read the file here called atlas_618_gems.txt and many other Atlas and machining related files at my site. regards Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Re: Newbie, Followed home by a 618 Posted by: "TWFAUSTx~xxAOL.com" Date: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:47 pm ((PDT)) Steve: Thank you for the response. In my pile of things I have found a Dayton, capacitive start, 1/2 hp. Now, if I can just figure out how to wire it to my barrel switch. I have seen most of the items I need on eBay, but the part numbers all vary from my Craftsman parts list (mine is an Atlas). Do the Craftsman units carry different part numbers? ------- Re: Newbie, Followed home by a 618 Posted by: "n1ltv" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:06 pm ((PDT)) > I have seen most of the items I need on eBay, but the part > numbers all vary from my Craftsman parts list (mine is an Atlas). > Do the Craftsman units carry different part numbers? Tom: All those M numbers on the drawings you're using are by Atlas, so mainly the Sears parts are numbered exactly the same as Atlas drawings. The only difference is that Sears seems to use its own numbers for minor standard hardware such as screws, nuts, washers, etc. Could you show us an example of an ebay part number which is different? Hank ------- Re: Newbie, Followed home by a 618 Posted by: "n1ltv" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:11 pm ((PDT)) > Since I will probably paint it, is there a source for decals, > particularly the Timkin decal? Do a search on "decal" in our message archive, please see particularly message #2488 which describes the superb artwork Rob did for two versions of the Timken decal. When Rob mentions his artwork has been uploaded to our files, he's speaking of the Photos section, not the Files section. Hank ------- Re: Newbie, Followed home by a 618 Posted by: "n1ltv" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:03 pm ((PDT)) > > When Rob mentions his artwork has been uploaded to our files, > > he's speaking of the Photos section, not the Files section. > > Hank > No, they're in the Files section... way down near the bottom of > the list. > -Bruno Yes, they are in the files section after all. Rob has actually uploaded them to both sections, Files and Photos, but the files versions of the images are bigger in bytes, so those are probably preferable for decal production. Hank ------- Re: Newbie, Followed home by a 618 - Part Numbers [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "TWFAUSTx~xxAOL.com" Date: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:28 pm ((PDT)) > Could you show us an example of an ebay part number which is > different? Here is an example, as requested below: On Craftsman list Motor Pulley is Item 193, Part # M6-429 The motor pulley currently on eBay is Part #M6-428. Close, but no cigar. Could be "fat fingers" I suppose. ------- Re: Newbie, Followed home by a 618 - Part #'s Posted by: "David G. Sampar" dsamparx~xxptd.net Date: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:45 am ((PDT)) The M6-428 and M6-429 are identical, but with different bores. The M6-428 has a 1/2" bore, while the M6-429 has a 5/8" bore. David ------- Re: Newbie, Followed home by a 618 - Part #'s Posted by: "jonnycalc" jeldredcx~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:06 pm ((PDT)) My pulley is marked M6-428 and has a 5/8" bore, with a 5/16" keyway, bushed down to a 1/2" bore with a bushing that has a gap in it to allow a set screw to reach the flat on a 1/2" shaft, which is how mine is set up using the original 1/3 hp Dunlap 115vac split phase motor. My original parts chart shows an M6-427 pulley but that is not what came with the machine when it was ordered from the factory in 1954 or 1955. ------- Re: Newbie, Followed home by a 618 - Part #'s Posted by: "David G. Sampar" dsamparx~xxptd.net Date: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:02 pm ((PDT)) Earlier Atlas parts price lists that I have (from the 50's) just call out the bore size (1/2" or 5/8"). A Clausing/Atlas parts price list from 2006 calls out the M6-428 as a pulley with bushing. David ------- Re: threading dial on 6X18 [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:51 am ((PDT)) "bichonben2003" wrote: > Has anyone had the threading dial doodad apart? Mine appears to have seized up. I am soaking the whole thing right now but if it does not loosen up, I am going to have to try dismantling it. It looks to me as though the gear is pressed on and I should be able to just tap the shaft out. Anyone know for sure? Randy < I have the same problems. It periodically seizes up and not something to readily disassemble. I've used heat (to loosen dried up oil perhaps), air pressure, and lubricants to work it. Also, the shaft can move up and down a mm or so, so I just keep working it until it's smooth. Then I practically drown it in thin oil. Bruno ------- Re: threading dial on 6X18 Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:20 pm ((PDT)) This is one of the items you're supposed to oil every time you use the lathe. On mine there's a little gap inboard of the dial that will accept a drop or two of oil. If you do that you shouldn't have any further trouble. Regards, David Beierl -- Providence RI USA Atlas 618 6"/3/index.html" lathe ca. 1941 ------- Re: threading dial on 6X18 Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:41 pm ((PDT)) Actually, it's listed on the lube chart as "oil weekly". I keep the thread dial disengaged when I'm not needing it, and do tend to oil it periodically, but it still seems to jamb up once in a while. I hate finding out in the middle of a thread. Bruno ------- Re: threading dial on 6X18 Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:02 pm ((PDT)) Oops, sorry. It sounds as though there's junk inside so the oil you put in at the top doesn't make it all the way down and run out the bottom at the gear. Mine gets a little gritty-feeling sometimes when I spin it. That's a sign for me to oil and spin, oil and spin until it clears. I presume it's from tiny bits of swarf under the dial. I have the sixteen-tooth gear so it's easy to spin with my finger. Yrs, David Beierl -- Providence RI USA ------- 618 saddle [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "mike" xactdudex~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:41 pm ((PDT)) I finally got around to pulling my old machine down to clean thoroughly. When I removed the small plates on the underneath of the carrage, (the ones which clamp it to the ways) I found shims underneath. Is this normal? There is no serial number on the bed ways like there should be and I'm wondering if the bed has been milled down at some point in time. Also, if it has been milled down, will that result in the split nuts not engaging properly on the lead screw? It's got to have a split nut assembly replaced as the original is gone. ------- Re: 618 saddle Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:28 pm ((PDT)) Yes, this is to adjust the clearance on the underside gibs. Warning: The shims are laminated, and it is real easy to catch one of the plies in a screw and twist them into a total accordion-pleated mess. Then the gibs won't be close at all. You'd have to take a lot off the surface that mates to the bed to cause real misalignment. So, most likely your carriage has NOT been machined. If they machined it, they'd have to take OUT the shims to keep the proper clearance. Jon ------- NOTE TO FILE: Owners of a 109 lathe will greatly benefit from a visit to Dean Williams' website with extensive how-to information on rebuilding such a lathe and making some very useful accessories for it: http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/109/109a.html There is a lot of good information here and on the rest of his site that should interest anyone with any Atlas or Taig or Sherline lathe. (And any other brand of lathe or mill for that matter.) http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html ------- Re: Spindle Stud Gear question [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.net Date: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:00 pm ((PST)) "mstrauch858" wrote: > I have a 6 x 18 101.07301, I am new to machining. I was looking at the threading chart in the manual and noticed that they call out two different Stud Gear Tooth counts either a 32 tooth M6-100-32 or a 16 tooth; there is the issue -- I cannot find any reference to the 16 tooth Spindle stud gear anywhere. I can't see how 16 teeth could even fit on the end of the spindle. Any help would be appreciated. < It isn't either of the two small tumblers. It's the lowest gear on the tumbler. That gear is a 16/32 compound. It's a one piece gear, that looks like two gears sandwiched together. This is not the spindle gear. It is the stud gear. The spindle gear is on the end of the spindle, 32 tooth, as has been said. The stud gear is the last gear in the reverse tumbler train, and drives the first gear in the thread gear train. Hope this helps. Dean ------- Re: Spindle Stud Gear question Posted by: "Michael J. Strauch" mikesx~xxpgisd.com Date: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:09 am ((PST)) Thank you all for the advice. I misunderstood the chart, in fact it is the compound gear 16/32 that it references and the way the other gears interact with it. It just took me looking for this unavailable 16 tooth stud gear to find out I already have it, just in a different spot. Again thanks for the help. Michael J. Strauch ------- Spindle bearing "wobble"? Atlas 6" 101. [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "borne2flyx~xxyahoo.com" borne2flyx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:00 pm ((PST)) When I rotate the spindle by hand I notice about .001" runout "on the average". But once in a while I notice excursions as high as .003". At this point I stop, slowly rock it back and forth, and I find that this .003" is not consistent .... it can vary from .001 back up to .003 (and anything in between) depending on how many times I want to sit there rocking it back and forth. These are new bearings, carefully installed, and squeaky clean when installed. Can this be the manufacturing tolerances of the individual rollers in the bearings coming into play? Has anyone else seen anything like this? ------- Re: Spindle bearing "wobble"? Atlas 6" 101. Posted by: "n8as1x~xxaol.com" Date: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:10 pm ((PST)) most likely insuficient preload....tighten up the outboard nut on the spindle .... fwiw indicate the headstock casting & lean a hand on it ..note the several thou flex .... ------- Re: Spindle bearing "wobble"? Atlas 6" 101. Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:24 am ((PST)) The problem is these are not zero-clearance bearings. They have a little space in them for the oil film. So, at rest, there should be a little bit of clearance in the bearing. Due to the axial preload, this clearance will be mostly taken up by that force, but you can't take it all up or the bearings will overheat when running. There is some variation in the rollers, but nowhere near .001", probably in the micorinch range. The rollers don't roll well at zero speed, they run into the spacers and the slightly smaller rollers skid instead of roll. None of this can happen during actual lathe operation due to the oil film. Of course, it is possible that your preload is insufficient or that some dirt has gotten in the bearings through the oil cup. The proof is in the surface finish you get when actually cutting. Jon ------- Re: Spindle bearing "wobble"? Atlas 6" 101. Posted by: "borne2flyx~xxyahoo.com" borne2flyx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:48 am ((PST)) End play adjustment ... that sounds right, I'd like to fiddle with the end play more but the inner bearing race at the adjustment end doesn't move on the spindle easily. In fact it had to be lightly pressed on. Does this sound correct, or should I have slightly honed down the OD of the spindle in that area before installing it? (I got a new spindle but the spindle-to-bearing fit seemed kinda tight, not sure if that was the way it's supposed to be.) ------- Re: Spindle bearing "wobble"? Atlas 6" 101. Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:29 am ((PST)) The bearings have to be a tight fit to constrain the spindle, even when the bearings might get a bit hot. After several removals and installations, the spindle can get burrs that make the bearing fit tighter. I generally use an India stone to rub off all burrs before installing a bearing. Jon ------- Carriage adjustment? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Mike Nicewonger" twmasterx~xxtwmaster.com Date: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:31 am ((PST)) I need to figure out how to adjust the front retainer (gib?) on my 618. I've got a fair amount of up/down slop in the carriage. Pointer? Thanks. Mike N ------- Re: Carriage adjustment? Posted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.net Date: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:14 pm ((PST)) Hi Mike: Under the front and back "lip" of the carriage, that keeps it down snug against the top of the lathe bed, is a steel plate that runs on the underside of the lathe bed. The back one also holds in the adjustable gib. The one on the front is just a plate screwed onto the carriage casting. You have to take the carriage off to adjust it. To get the carriage off, remove the lead screw bearing on the tail end of the lathe, and the carriage will slide off. Once it's off, you will be able to see the two screws that hold in that plate. You will also see that you have to take off the half nuts to get to them. It's a good time to clean all the crud from them. The plates themselves are adjusted by shims. If you take the plate off, there will probably be a couple of them under it. Use one as a pattern to make another one from some .001" shim stock. Brass or steel will work. On mine, when adjusting this part, the difference between being too loose, and too tight was only about .0005". Hope this helps. Dean ------- Re: mumble zamak gears mumble [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:34 am ((PST)) John: A year ago I bought a steel replacement gear for the 16/32 stud gear from a person who posted to Ebay. Just now I can't find him on ebay and I don't remember his Ebay ID but his postal and phone contact is: Metal Magic Inc. James E. Koelling 9019 NE 157th Street Smithville, MO 64089 (816) 532-8662 The gear cost $50.00. I also bought a couple of standard 32s in steel at $25.00 each and a couple of keyed bushings at $10.00 each. I was very happy with his product and service and don't hesitate to recommend him. No connection other than as a very satisfied customer. When using the gear train for screwcutting or power feed the gears that get the most use are: 32 spindle all the time 16/32 stud all the time Forward tumbler gear all the time Reverse tumbler gear moderately often Amongst the other gears the 32s and the 64s probably get the most use. Other than those I would guess the order of frequency would run 20, 24, 40, 48, 36, 44, 56. 52, 54, 46. These are just my guesses and will vary from one person to another. I'm mentioning the usage matter in case a person decided to gradually replace their Zamac gears with steel ones. For myself, I think I'll contact Jim and see if he can supply the spindle and tumbler gears in steel. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. PS All the above gears are 24 DP for the Atlas 6" lathe. Jim also offers 16 DP gears for the larger Atlas lathes. ------- Re: mumble zamak gears mumble Posted by: "n1ltv" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:12 pm ((PST)) > Try a search for tool magic on ebay. ebay id: tool_magic ebay website: http://stores.ebay.com/Metal-Magic ------- Need Help With Spindle Gears Removal on Atlas Mk 2 [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "mfmaker" giuseppixx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:28 pm ((PST)) Greetings to all, I am new here. I have problem that may have already been addressed, though I don't readily see it. FYI, I have the Atlas lathe Mk. 2 model that is painted blue. It is not the craftsman, though it looks similar. The tail stock has an MT1 taper. Here is my problem. I don't know how to remove the inboard-most spindle gears from my Atlas 6" lathe without damaging the lathe. There is a collar with two holes, 180ş apart. One of these holes is threaded with a setscrew in it. I removed the setscrew, but the gears do not budge. There are three gears, two of which are of the same small diameter, just with different lengths. The third gear has a large diameter. Are these gears pressed on, threaded on, or just tight? I have already removed all the other gears, brackets, and miscellaneous parts. Can anyone help or at least enlighten me about how these last items are attached? Mark ------- Mark II Gear removal Posted by: "Mike Coleman" mcolex~xxcopper.net Date: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:03 pm ((PST)) Mark: The Mark II spindle assembly is held together almost entirely by spring clips, 2 woodruff keys, and a couple of setscrews. If you have removed the 4 step pulley from the spindle end, you have already encountered one of the woodruff keys. A second, identical key secures the gears you are referencing to the spindle shaft. It's just one 2 step gear; wear from the reverse tumbler gears make the smaller gear look like 2 stacked gears, when it's actually all just a one-piece gear. It's likely firmly stuck from decades old dry grease. I would soak it liberally with PB blaster or WD 40 before attempting to remove it. Overnight if possible, and tilt up the headstock end so that it drains into the shaft and gear. A socket screw on the back of the headstock secures the backgear shaft, another on the headstock bottom secures the reverse tumbler assembly shaft. I would remove both of these assemblies to avoid damage. After soaking, and with everything else removed from the pulley end down to the 2 step gear, you should be able to gently tap the spindle enough to break it loose from the gear. Of course, USE A BLOCK OF WOOD, do not tap the metal spindle with a hammer or anything else metal. Once you get the key removed the rest should be easy. Do you have the owner's manual? There is a nice exploded view that would make it easier if you had it. I can email you a copy if you need it. It's been awhile since I had mine apart, so I may have forgotten something else important. Perhaps someone else on the list can respond if I have. Good luck, Mike Coleman ------- Re: Mark II Gear removal Posted by: "mfmaker" giuseppixx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:06 pm ((PST)) Thanks Mike. Yeah, having gotten as far as I did, I thought it was something like that. I don't have the manual, but I noticed there is a Craftsman Mk. 2 manual in the files section, and it looks just like my Atlas. I did see the parts breakaway. However, I was just informed that the collar to the left of and adjacent to the "2-step gear" with the setscrew in it seems to be a threaded affair for holding the gears against the bearings to preload them. Is this true? I don't know yet, but I did soak that area heavily with WD-40 last night. This evening, I noticed the collar rotated a little bit about the spindle, though there was no axial play, and I haven't tried to force it. This may make sense if the bearings are tapered roller bearings rather than ball bearings. Mark ------- NOTE TO FILE: The above question was posted to both groups under different subject titles. Answers can get a bit confusing when the same folks are on both groups discussing the same thing. Following is information from atlas_craftsman. ------- Re: Need Help With Spindle Gears Removal Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:39 pm ((PST)) mfmaker wrote: > You were absolutely right. The collar with set screws was indeed > threaded on, and I managed to remove it. The double spindle gear > assembly has 2 keyway slots. Doesn't look like the gears are > threaded on, but I still can't liberate them. Is there some further > trick to this? Dare I start thinking about a gear puller? I don't know where you'd put the puller's jaws, except maybe on the headstock housing. I think once the collar is off, a whack with a wood block on the back of the spindle would start it moving out. Once you have even a little clearance, then you could gently pry with a thin tool to start to work the gear off. Usually, once you get it even a little loose, it will come off without much trouble. The collar pushes the gear against the rear bearing's inner race, and so it sets the preload on the bearings. The bearings are (usually) a pretty tight interference fit on the spindle, so they don't move without persuasion. Jon ------- Re: Need Help With Spindle Gears Removal Posted by: "Soapman54x~xxaol.com" Date: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:50 pm ((PST)) I wouldn't recommend a gear puller, this gear is zamak and will distort. I turned the headstock on its side and cut two pieces of wood about 1/4 inch thick and put them on either side of the gear as close to the spindle as possible in the area between the bottom of the bull gear and the top of the rear bearing. This is done so the gear doesn't hit the headstock when you tap the spindle out. I then took a short piece of 1 inch wooden dowel rod and began tapping on the back end of the spindle. As it moves out of the rear bearing you will see a spacer washer between the bottom of the bull gear and timkin bearing. You may have to adjust this washer so the keyway slot in it doesn't conflict with the key that is in the spindle and bull gear. So just tap the spindle from the back and it should come out without too much trouble. Good luck Mark. If I can be of any further help feel free to drop me a line. ------- Re: Need Help With Spindle Gears Removal Posted by: "Soapman54x~xxaol.com" Date: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:53 pm ((PST)) dont pry on the gear or you may regret it,the bull gear is soft and they cost 80 dollars for a new one ------- NOTE TO FILE: Here is a link to Dean Williams page on metal projects. http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/taig/soigotataig.html Yes there is lots of stuff about Taig machines, but many of the projects on this main page can be made on, or adapted for use with, other lathes or mills including Atlas ones. He has a excellent section on the Craftsman AA 109. He just recently added a plain bearing Atlas 618 with a 8 TPI spindle to his workshop. Some of his hints are applicable to 618s with roller bearings and 10 TPI spindles. His project ideas for the 618 are useful on any Atlas model. You will love this site. ------- Re: Nylon gears years? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Mike Coleman" paucox~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon May 31, 2010 7:35 am ((PDT)) > According to Tony Griffiths the 1"-8 spindle was discontinued in > favor of the 1"-10 threaded spindle in 1958. He later > mentions nylon gears on the reverse lever and shows a photo > of them. He does not mention approximately when Atlas began > placing these plastic gears on machines. Mike, My 1972 vintage Atlas/Craftsman 618 MK I has zamak on the reverse tumbler. My 1974 MK II originally had plastic/nylon on the reverse tumbler only, which I replaced with zamak. My GUESS is that the plastic gears began with the MK II. Mike Coleman ------- Re: Nylon gears years? Posted by: "speedphoto300" speedphoto300x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon May 31, 2010 10:49 am ((PDT)) At this point it's all but impossible to tell the vintage of these by the details of their construction, without exact details of their pedigree. I've seen many mutt machines that were put together or repaired with parts from others of varying vintage; it's especially bad with 618's and their relatives. I once saw a lathe for sale that was advertised as a 618, but was a 101.07301 whose bed was replaced by a 618 bed, complete with the Atlas data plate. The craftsman decal could be seen under the paint on the headstock. No one was being tricky, it's just a case of an owner replacing the bed with what was available and fit. Spindles are another example, the 1"-8 Timken spindle is identical to the 1"-10, Atlas sells whatever the current part is, so if you replaced the spindle after the 1"-8 was out of stock they would send you the 1"-10. If you order tumbler gears today you will get the nylon ones that were introduced with the MkII. Evidence is that Zamac tumbler gears were used up to the end of the 618, in 1974. Joe ------- Half nut problem on older 101 lathe [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Victor" victor1g1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:24 pm ((PDT)) I have an older 101 that had a wore out half nut. Installed a new one and it still slips on the threaded rod. I think it might be the engagement cam device. It seemed ok when I had it apart but it does not feel very tight when you engage. Is there a fix? ------- Half nut problem on older 101 lathe Posted by: "Rob Chapman" chapman49682x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:27 pm ((PDT)) Based on my limited experience with the same problem, it seems that some versions of the split nut have a thin post that engages the cam slot; others have a thicker post. I discovered this by accident. When I noticed that my split nut was slipping on the lead screw, I assumed that my split nut was stripped and so purchased a new set on eBay. The new set had the thicker post. Comparing the threads, I was able to determine that my old set was not stripped. Once I installed the new split nuts with the thicker posts, however, my problem went away. Perhaps there is correspondingly, two different versions of the cam with two different slot widths; I don't know. If your post seems significantly thinner than the cam slot, perhaps fashioning a small bushing to fit over the thinner post, or removing the post, drilling out and installing a thicker one, would solve your issue. Rob ------- NOTES TO FILE: All files named here can be read at http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ There was a discussion starting 07 Jul 2010 in the atlas618lathe group with subject "Milling Attachment"; it was placed into the Atlas Lathe Milling file (because comments could apply to any Atlas, or other, lathe). That milling conversation with same subject diverted on 20 Jul 2010 into a comparison of capabilities of the Taig lathe and Atlas 618 lathe, and was put into the Lathe Comparisons file. A conversation started in the atlas618lathe group with subject "618 ATLAS Spindle Removal Issues..." on 18 Jul 2010. Some information was also applicable to other Atlas lathes so it was put into the Atlas Repair or Fitting file here. ------- 6" Atlas and tool holders [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.com Date: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:03 am ((PDT)) Data = conclusion = Lathe not intended to be used with a tool holder. Center height 3.000". Top of turret 2.220" Distance from top of turret to center = .780" Rocker and washer = .370" Distance from rocker to center = .410" Armstrong 0-R or L 0.765 Craftsman 2192 0.565 Armstrong 2010S 0.610 Williams 2010S 0.570 Some tool holders with distance from bottom to top of a 1/4" bit, 1/4" projected out of the holder. Range of too high is .155 to .355" Just some facts, for my 6-18 Atlas era ~1950. chart ------- Re: 6" Atlas and tool holders Posted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.net Date: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:32 pm ((PDT)) The manual that came with my 618 shows a picture with the tool holder being used. A 5/8" tool holder for 3/16" bits goes right in my stock lantern and adjusts with the rocker. Tool holders for 1/4" bits are too big to adjust easily, though. Use the ones for 3/16" bits that are 5/8" tall on the part that goes through the lantern. Dean ------- Re: 6" Atlas and tool holders Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:32 pm ((PDT)) Using Armstrong-type holders you're limited to 3/16 size, quarter-inch is too big. Clausing sells the 3/16 for the six-inch and the 1/4 for ten and twelve-inch lathes. Yours, David ------- Re: Craftsman 101.21400 belt sizes [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "n1ltv" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Aug 2, 2010 3:30 pm ((PDT)) > > The Mk 1 and Mk 2 lathes are both designed for a 2L belt. > Well, that was plain wrong. They're both designed for the > 3L (3/8 inch) cross section v-belts. The real common one > is 4L which is 1/2 inch wide across the top side. Okay, I'm very sorry for so many erroneous posts from me. Early today I tried to check Earl Bower's website for the Mk 2 or 3950 lathe belt size which was stocked, but Earl has actually almost shut down that website and there is not much of anything left. Looking over the posts from a few years back, it seems clear that the later, square style 6 inch Atlas lathes, those with no countershaft assembly and therefore half the speeds of the original 618 (see photo section for pictures of both models), use a very small 2L belt. I have never looked into sources of 2L belts (Sears should have them under the specific lathe part number), but the 3L can be found in some local hardware stores, auto supply places, lawnmower/snowblower dealers and repair places, and of course some local industrial supply houses. Don't be surprised if your local store has a limited selection of lengths, or no 3L belts at all. It all depends on the store and what sells in that particular area. So, to summarize, and I hope this is the final and correct information, the original 618 variants used a 3L, 3/8 inch wide belt which is not too hard to find but not everywhere, and the Mark 2 or 3950 needs a very narrow 2L belt (1/4 inch). The link belts available from Fenner, and imitations from others, are available in the 3L cross section. 2L is not available in a link belt. Hank ------- Re: Craftsman 101.21400 belt sizes Posted by: "Mike Coleman" paucox~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Aug 2, 2010 7:12 pm ((PDT)) The MK II uses a 2L290 belt. 1/4" X 29". Near impossible to find locally, but lots of sources on the net if you google 2L290 belt. Last one I bought was only $2.00, so I got a few extra. I have my MK I mounted exactly by the template in the owner's manual, and the 3L340 worked perfectly from headstock to countershaft. Since the countershaft has some adjustability, I suspect that a 33 or 35 inch belt would also work just as well, though I've never tried anything other than the 34 inch and a link belt. Mike Coleman Proud owner of 3 Atlas/Craftsman 6 X 18 lathes, none of which I really need, but just like having them around. ------- Looking for Service Bulletin M6-735-1 Posted by: "n2irz" donrotolox~xxoptimum.net Date: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:35 pm ((PDT)) This service bulletin describes an additional bracket that is attached to the thread-cutting gear bracket, allowing for a greater range of threads to be cut. I got this 35 years ago (!) from Clausing, but have since lost the document. Included on the bulletin are a drawing for the bracket and an expanded threading chart. Any help in finding this would be greatly appreciated. Of course any reasonable expenses will be paid/reimbursed. Thanks, Don ------- Re: Looking for Service Bulletin M6-735-1 Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:19 pm ((PDT)) There's a drawing in the files showing a fabricated addition to the existing bracket. Yours, David Beierl -- Providence RI USA ------- Re: Looking for Service Bulletin M6-735-1 Posted by: "n1ltv" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:37 am ((PDT)) In a message dated Mon Feb 9, 2009, r.leehawkins writes: >> I searched the post archives here, but could not find an answer. The 1957 (17th) edition of the Atlas "Lathe Operation" book mentions a special change gear bracket for the 618 that provides a position "D". I'd like to fabricate one of these. Does anyone have a drawing of this part? This bracket is mentioned on pp. 173-176. << Message to atlas618lathe on February 13, 2009 from ourmember Anthony: > Lee and others, The item you're looking for is M6-735 Extension Bracket. This consists of M6-25M Metric Gear Bracket Extension, a couple of hex bolts with washers and hex nuts, and an extra change gear bushing assembly. I believe these items collectively were offered as an optional attachment at one time, 40 or more years ago, but no longer. In order to replicate this for yourself, besides the extra change gear bushing you will need the drawing for M6-25M plus Bulletin M6-735-1 which shows the assembly and lists 3 additional metric pitches, 0.5, 1.75, and 2.0 mm. Additionally, in old copies of the change gear charts published in the Manual of Operations, setups for 9.5, 19, 31, 37, 59, 67, 68, 74, 76, and 79 TPI plus carriage feeds of .004" and .001046" were listed. I have the drawing, the bulletin, and three pages listing the extra pitches, but right now my scanner isn't installed. At some point I will reinstall the scanner at which time I'll post the five pages to the files section of the group site. In the mean time, if anybody wants to chase down the information on their own the necessary information is listed above. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. < ------- NOTE TO FILE: A conversation in atlas618lathe started Sep 3, 2010 with the subject "spindle" and drifted into "spindle drawing" with various folks using either message title; so they are gathered together in the file here called "Bearings and Bushings" (which also includes spindles). While the subject concerned making a new spindle for an Atlas 618 (doable on a 618), the procedures and tips were useful for making a new spindle for any small lathe. There are also some good tips about different steel alloys and their suitability for making a spindle or similar part. ------- Re: Leadscrew [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "bally91304" ballwayacx~xxatt.net Date: Wed Dec 1, 2010 10:56 pm ((PST)) > I have an older 618 plain bearing lathe. The half nut slipped on the screw so i bought a new one. It still slips, i measured the diameter of the screw but it shows only i slight wear. Does anyone make these? I really do not want buy a used one to replace this one...Thanks David < Hi David: The half-nuts are soft metal and the lead-screw is hard. I doubt there is much wear on the lead screw. Make sure the half-nuts are centered on the screw. If not, only one will engage and allow it to slip. Regards LouBall ------- Re: Leadscrew Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Fri Dec 3, 2010 12:56 pm ((PST)) At 11:50 AM 12/3/2010, David Hull wrote: >I have also been trying to figure out the slipping problem with the >leadscrew. Recently purchased a good used pair that appeared to >have plenty of thread and they still slipped. >What I did find was that if a took a small brass tube from the >hardware/hobby store and cut small bushings it helped a little. I >also tightened up the screw that holds the ball and spring on the >bottem of the carriage a little to hold the shaft tighter. I can >now get it to where I believe I can try to turn a thread. Could you describe the above again, with more detail? It seems clear your trouble is related to failure of the clasp nuts to properly clasp the leadscrew, so the question is why. I seriously don't think it's because the threads on either nuts or leadscrew are too worn, though if the threads of the nut are filled with hardened gunk that could cause a problem. Where did the bushings go? On the operating-handle shaft? Is the shaft wobbly? Does the lever fail to travel far enough to fully engage the nuts? It's been a long time since I've seen one apart, but I feel sure that either the engagement mechanism isn't traveling far enough or that something is wobbly. Can it be that the nuts don't match the guide? There's an 'A' version of both nuts and slide which do not interchange with the originals. I think it's time to pull both carriage and leadscrew and study what's going on from inside. >I do not see the 1/2-16 acme rod listed in anyones catalogs. Does >anyone know a a replacement source? With a micrometer my rod >measures .497 and doesn't appear that worn. These folks might help you, for a price. http://keystonethreaded.thomasnet.com/item/all-categories/acme-thre aded-bars/item-1010?&forward=1# Don't forget to discuss what accuracy you want -- I believe that our leadscrews are noticeably more accurate (thou/foot) than the common commercial specification. But seriously, I think the likelihood of your needing a leadscrew is as close to zero as anything can be on this earth. The unthreaded portion of mine, incidentally, measures 0.4975. Even one with threads worn to the bone I wouldn't expect to change much on O.D. since nothing should really be touching it until the Acme shape is completely gone. Yours, David Beierl -- Providence RI USA ------- Re: Leadscrew Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Dec 4, 2010 11:22 am ((PST)) David and others, 1/2" - 16 TPI is not a standard size for Acme threads. When Atlas scaled down the design of their larger lathes they wanted to use a smaller diameter leadscrew so that they could use 24 DP gears and still be able to use small tooth counts. As it is the smallest change gear is 20 although the tumbler compound includes a 16. The 16 is too small to allow use of the change gear bushing, it's only possible as part of the compound gear. Atlas wanted to use an Acme thread and it does meet the Acme specs, even though it's non-standard. .497" diameter isn't a problem. The OD is not where the screw would wear, the bearing faces of the helix take the wear and eventually you would see the flat tops of the thread getting narrow in the areas where the screw gets the most use. If you look at your leadscrew closely you will probably see wear in the section used while cutting in the first couple of inches to the right of the chuck. As others are suggesting it's unlikely that the slipping problem or failure to feed via use of the leadscrew is due to wear in the screw. Looking at the mechanism, the self feed or screwcutting feed involves a key driving the gear on the tail of the spindle. The spindle gear drives a series of gears through tooth engagement and, in some cases, via coupling of gears by the change gear bushings. The end of the gear train drives the leadscrew via a key. With the leadscrew turning via the gear train, the screw drives the carriage via the split nuts. Start from scratch. Make certain that the leadscrew is clean so no gunk build-up can prevent the split nuts from closing. Remove all the change gears from the banjo and the leadscrew, clean them and inspect them for damaged teeth. Inspect the change gear bushings for proper fit and good keys. Check the mounting bolts for the change gears (no point in cutting corners). Make certain that you have a good woodruff key in the leadscrew for the final gear to drive the screw. While you have the gears out of the way, grasp the tail gear on the spindle and see if it will turn freely on the spindle (obviously it shouldn't but you probably don't need to remove the tail gear to check the woodruff key). Mount the woodruff key and a large gear on the leadscrew to use as a hand knob and see if you can rotate the gear without the screw turning (again, the screw should turn when rotating the gear and vice versa). Remove the threading dial and, while looking in from the right of the carriage, try to determine if the split nuts appear to close properly and fully. Having not removed the tail gear on the spindle or the carriage from the bed, now setup any gear train from the spindle to the leadscrew (finer feeds or pitches probably preferred so things don't happen too rapidly), engage the tumbler reverse in either position, move the carriage to about mid travel, engage the split nuts before starting the motor so that you can "feel" for proper engagement, start the motor and see if the carriage appears to feed properly. If the carriage feeds without any apparent problems, so far so good. If it doesn't and you can immediately determine what the cause is, shut down and try to correct the problem. If the carriage doesn't feed and there are no immediate indications that damage is being done let the motor continue to run and start looking for malfunctions. With the spindle turning, is the tail gear turning at the same apparent rate? Following through the gear train, is each successive gear turning as you would expect it to do? Is the leadscrew turning? If any of the above are not functioning properly, the spindle cannot drive the carriage. If all the above appear to be operating correctly it seems likely that you have a problem with the split nuts so it's time to remove the carriage to check them out. This will be easier if you remove the leadscrew which will also allow you to use the screw during your further analyses. The potential problems with the split nuts are that they are worn so badly that they don't actually engage with the leadscrew or make it tricky to get engagement, operating mechanism not doing the job, or some installation error which prevents correct engagement. While inspecting the split nuts with them exposed in this manner, fit the leadscrew between the nuts to see if that clarifies any issues. Obviously, if the split nuts and/or the operating mechanism is worn, repair or replace them, otherwise make whatever adjustments seem appropriate and reinstall everything (with everything properly cleaned and lubed, of course). After reassembling everything you want to run some additional tests. Setup the lathe with a spare piece of round stock in the chuck, start the lathe, and make a cut FROM LEFT TO RIGHT. This is so you can focus your attentions on how things are operating without fear of running the cutter into the chuck while you're focusing on performance issues. Hopefully everything is good now. If any of you with these problems go through this discipline, please tell us what you find out. If you find "a silly mistake" tell us anyway, we've all goofed and the lessons are better learned from the other guy being generous with sharing his experience rather than crashing something because nobody else would talk. Hope this might be helpful. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: Leadscrew Posted by: "bally91304" ballwayacx~xxatt.net Date: Sat Dec 4, 2010 2:54 pm ((PST)) Notice there are the numbers 1 and 2 on the half-nuts. I am almost positive that number 1 goes on top and number 2 on the bottom. I am almost sure that it matters. I didn't want to take my lathe apart so I tried to check the numbers with a mirror. It seemed to confirm the above placement. If someone else in the group knows, please advise. ------- Re: Leadscrew Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Sat Dec 4, 2010 3:48 pm ((PST)) The nuts have to be different because they represent the opposite halves of a single nut; but it makes no practical difference which is up and which down. [Later message from David Beierl correcting this last statement.] I was completely wrong. It does matter, to the extent that if the nuts are wrong-way-to the threading dial won't line up correctly. Sorry for the confusion. I have, incidentally, put up an image here http://picasaweb.google.com/dbeierl/618Lathe# showing a set of new (12A) nuts with the old 13 and new 13A guides. The operating cam did not change. They added significant width -- I don't know whether for better stability or to put less stress on the threads or both. But as you can see, the A parts won't work with the earlier ones and vice versa. Same issue with the M6-19A cross slide feed nut and M6-36A feed screw. The old screw will not enter into the new nut, as I found to my dismay. I say dismay in particular because Clausing sent me a very roughly finished screw which I should have sent back -- or polished -- and didn't; so I now have as much or more backlash as before the noticeable outlay for the two parts. The lube oil coming off the screw no longer looks like fairy dust, so I suspect it's reached a stable state. But there are cheaper things to polish a screw with. I had a lot less confidence then that I knew what I was doing... Yours, David Beierl -- Providence RI USA ------- NOTE TO FILE: Prior to this next message, there was a brief mention of a Jacobs chuck threaded 1 X 10 to fit onto an Atlas 618 spindle. These old chucks are now rare and tend to be expensive when found. Their advantages include the ability to feed 1/2 inch or smaller stock through the spindle and chuck. Some have found them to be better at centering small round stock than a conventional 3-jaw. Now David gives a tip for making your own version. ------- Re: headstock chuck for 6" atlas [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:25 pm ((PST)) I made one for my 6". If I were doing it today I'd do it better, but it works pretty well. Sticks out farther than the stock one; I was afraid there wasn't enough meat in the chuck I used to thread the inside of it so I welded a backplate on it and threaded that. Yrs, David Beierl -- Providence RI USA Atlas 618 6"/3/index.html" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill. ------- Re: where to find a chuck? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Neil Cotherman" cothermanx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jan 3, 2011 11:25 am ((PST)) Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been out of town for a bit. I'm going to try to attached some pictures via email . . . hope this works. I re-measured the spindle. It is, in fact, a 3/4" - 16. I've attached a pic of the spindle, backplate, and 4-jawed chuck that i have (i removed the spindle from the lathe). I'm also attaching a pic of the lathe, and closeups of the pulleys and gears (with spindle removed). The last pic is a close up of the model badge. It's a bit tough to read, but the model number is: 101.07300. It shows it was made by Sears, Roebuck and Co. Thank you all! 5 of 5 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas618lathe/attachments/fol der/129781648/item/list ------- Re: where to find a chuck? Posted by: "S or J" jstudiox~xxtbaytel.net Date: Tue Jan 4, 2011 6:16 am ((PST)) Hi Neil: Your Sears model number 101.07300 corresponds to Atlas-made lathes for Sears we have heard of before, but only rarely. The last mention of this model number was with 3/4" - 16 spindle and plain bearings with 12 inches between centers; same as the Atlas model 612. Your lathe's picture looks like it is on a full 618 length bed (bed ways about 30" long). Would you please confirm bed length. As Jon has pointed out before, Sears/Craftsman usually gave a new model number to lathes every time some feature changed. Hence it is a bit of a mystery if these early Sears with 12" and 18" centers both carried the same 101.07300 designation. Perhaps someday we will get it all these numbers sorted out. On the plus side, you probably have a lot more commercially threaded chucks available for a 3/4" - 16 spindle (including ones available for wood lathes) than those of us with a 1" - 10 spindle. regards Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Re: where to find a chuck? Posted by: "S or J" jstudiox~xxtbaytel.net Date: Tue Jan 4, 2011 7:41 am ((PST)) Hi Neil: Just a quick follow up on the Sherline and Taig chucks. They both have 3/4" -16 threads but are not strictly interchangeable without modification. The Taig chuck has a small unthreaded full 3/4" register hole to fit on the full diameter Taig lathe spindle register behind its threads. The Sherline chuck is threaded completely. The Sherline obtains its registration from the threads and having the rear of the chuck contact a flange on the spindle. I have not seen an Atlas 3/4" spindle, but I suspect it has an unthreaded full diameter register like its larger cousins. Consequently an unmodified Taig will probably fit and register better. [And if a Taig chuck becomes your choice, their 4-jaw is better. Yes 4-jaws are a bit more fiddly to set up until you get used to them, but they can center perfectly and grip better.] Those using a Sherline chuck on Taig lathes usually machine a spacer washer to cover the Taig spindle's straight register portion. If you ask on the sherline and taigtools groups at Yahoo, someone in your city or nearby could bring over his chuck to test its fit on your lathe. If possible, please try before you buy. Machining a custom backplate for a 3.5 or 4 inch chuck to fit your lathe exactly is a good option. 5" chucks are a bit oversize for these small lathes, particularly with an even smaller spindle like yours. Five inchers really have little size advantage here as you cannot allow the jaws to extend much beyond the 5" diameter before hitting the ways. regards Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Re: where to find a chuck? Posted by: "Dallas" n5feex~xxnetzero.net Date: Wed Jan 5, 2011 7:28 pm ((PST)) I have two 618 style lathes, one Atlas and one Craftsman. The Craftsman had the original chuck on it when I got it (30 years ago, used.) The original chuck is a 3 jaw 4 inch diameter with no back plate (the chuck itself is threaded 1x10 to fit the lathe.) I later bought a 4 jaw, 4 inch diameter and made a back plate to fit it. It has a second set of outside jaws. In my opinion, 4 inch diameter is the best size chuck for these machines. You have to have room to open the chuck to grab something. You need both inside and outside jaws. A 5 inch restricts the size of item you can grab. A 3 inch is too small and lightweight for most items. Remember, when you open the jaws, they extend beyond the body of the chuck, so if you have a 5 inch chuck, you can only open it up 1 inch or so, before the jaws are hitting the way's. I have hundreds of hours on my 4 inch diameter 3 jaw chuck with no complaints. The 4 jaw is nice, but takes a lot of time to adjust. If you have to have only one. Get a 3 jaw 4 inch diameter. I think you will be happy. You can buy pre-made, pre-threaded back plate for $18 from Litle Machine shop. They also have chucks for reasonable prices. Unless you find an 4 inch chuck with intergal threads like mine, (and I have never seen another one), you will have a back plate, threaded to fit your spindle, attached to a chuck. The thinner the better (The complete back- plate/chuck assembly doesn't stick out as far from the head stock.) If you are going to do small work, I would recommend you make your own or buy ER32 chuck and buy a set of collets for it. They will be a set of 18 collets that will chuck anything from 1/8 inch to 3/4 inch, or similar metric size. You can buy import collets for about $100 for a full set. Pre-made ER chucks, MT2 one end, ER32 chuck on the other end units are on ebay for $30 or so. If you have any chuck at all, or access to another lathe, making your own ER type chuck is not a giant project. Just make the chuck proper and buy the clamping nut for $10 or so to use with it. Just my $0.02 worth. Dallas Claremore, OK ------- Re: where to find a chuck? Posted by: "Neil Cotherman" cothermanx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:21 am ((PST)) The lathe I have does indeed have an 618 bed. And, i wanted to thank everyone for the excellent input. I have a good bit of info and leads on options for chucks now to make an informed decision. This group is the best! Thanks! Neil ------- Tailstock quick adjust? Posted by: "ok.dokay" stevex~xxfinetools.com Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 10:43 am ((PST)) Has anyone come up with a good idea for making Atlas 618 tailstock lockdown easier and quicker? Mine has a nut which needs to be tightened to lock it, and getting a wrench is there is not exactly speedy. I've looked at a couple quick disconnect handles (the nylon type where you can twist the handle to tighten/loosen and raise the handle up a bit to "ratchet" the handle to a new position for clearance). However, there is not much vertical room in the casting above the nut, so I haven't found one that will fit and work. Any ideas? ------- Re: Tailstock quick adjust? Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 12:00 pm ((PST)) Make a nut which will hold your box end wrench captive. Hex at the bottom, then a round section to allow you to swing and reposition your wrench, then at the top a flange to keep the wrench from coming off. If you wish, put the round at the bottom and the hex in the middle. John Martin ------- Re: Tailstock quick adjust? Posted by: "JR Hurd" john_hurdx~xxcharter.net Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 12:27 pm ((PST)) I just took a coupler nut and turned the center of the hex off, left hex on both ends. ------- Re: Tailstock quick adjust? Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 2:03 pm ((PST)) Put a strong spring on the bolt between the bottom of the tailstock and the crossbar that locks it to the bed. This forces the bar away from the bed when you loosen the nut so a 1/4 turn is all that is required for tight to loose. ------- Re: Tailstock quick adjust? Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.com Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 7:39 pm ((PST)) Re to Glenn: Thanks a bunch about the spring. I found a spring on my bench and did not know where it came from so I put it up and though, someday I will find out where it belongs. You reminded me and I now remember taking my tailstock apart. And I left the spring out. That idea goes way back. However, the spring does not have to be real strong. And for a wrench, I had an orphan double box end wrench with the heavy offset. Cut it in two and I use that on the nut and it stays in place. The handle is maybe 4" long. And you are correct in my case, once the box end is indexed to the hex correctly, I can swing it from full tight to easy to slide without taking it out. Works much better with my spring back in place. Thanks again. And this. I had never had the tail stock separated from its base. I found paint between the two surfaces, had to be original paint. Wet sanded the paint off and it is easier to center. chart ------- weekend project: added feedscrew to my 618 [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:56 pm ((PST)) I added a feedscrew beneath the leadscrew on my 618, using Acme 1/2-10, that I can drive either from the headstock with the standard gearing, or from the tailstock with a gearmotor. If anyone is interested here's the project page: http://users.frii.com/katana/618_feedscrew.html It has rather a lot of 100K pictures so it might take a moment to load for those of us still on slower connections. If you're on a fast connection, however, each picture links to the original 4 megapixel shots. I'm not claiming it's a swiss-watch construction, but it's going to come in very handy for some projects I have in mind. ------- Re: 618 Gear head disassembly [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:34 pm ((PDT)) At 03:41 PM 4/11/2011, jmartin957x~xxaol.com wrote: >Agree totally with Carvel. >Link belt is easier, but you've already got it almost apart and you have >removed the collar that sets the bearing end play/pre-load. Take it the >rest of the way, and check the fit of the bearings inside the spindle >pulley. If the lathe has been run in back gear a lot, those may need >replacing. I'm on this side as well. I have a link belt on mine, and I'll be going back to the regular vee belt. I'll be looking for a belt that's notched on the inside for flexibility, and I hope to find a metric belt that's a bit narrower than 3/8", as the 3L belt is really too wide for the sheave. The link belt is wonderfully convenient, and I hear on the bigger lathes it reduces vibration; but its width and stiffness cause clearance problems with the 618 countershaft* and it scrubs metal off the flanks of the sheave. I'd already replaced my grandfather's belt with a new one from Clausing which I cut off to substitute the link belt, so I know I'm not in over my head with the spindle. Mine is a name brand, incidentally - Fenner, I think. *Mostly it doesn't want to idle in some positions when the tension is thrown off, but the back of the belt also rubs on the countershaft frame when working in the highest-speed position. If I had it to do over again from start* I'd leave the original belt on even though it looked awful, because it was the right width. Then I'd have exact measurements to go out looking for a substitute. But I'd cut it off the spindle for convenience before I realized the modern one was too wide, and thrown away the pieces before I came to my senses. Too soon old, too late smart. *Actually...if I had it to do over from start I'd buy a well-equipped twelve-inch for less than I've ended up paying for tooling for my Grand- father's free kitten, I mean lathe. But I do enjoy the connection among three generations, and once I found the bump under the compound slide it became a somewhat stiffer lathe than it ever was for him or my dad. QC [Quality Control] slipped a little on that one. The slotted extension Earl Bowers made to replace the cross-slide screw cover also makes it much more versatile than before. David Beierl -- Providence RI USA Atlas 618 6"/3/index.html" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill. ------- Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Belts [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Jim Peterson" f4d711x~xxaol.com Date: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:49 am ((PDT)) I have a question for those of you who have put the Fenner link belts on your 618's. What did you do to keep the spindle belt from rubbing on the countershaft bracket and rocker shaft? I am having a serious interference problem between the Fenner link belt and the countershaft bracket and rocker shaft when the belt is on the large countershaft pulley and small spindle pulley. HELP! TIA. Jim ------- Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Belts Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:41 am ((PDT)) I raised the countershaft ass'y slightly but still have interference problems. If I keep on with the link belts I'll probably grind off some material from the countershaft casting. I say if because I'm not happy with the zinc from the sheaves showing up on the sides of the belts. Yours, David ------- Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Belts Posted by: "James Rice" james.ricex~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:48 pm ((PDT)) Me too, but fortunately I don't use that speed very often. James in NTX ------- Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Belts Posted by: "Nicholas Schmidt" njsloans1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:58 am ((PDT)) I just installed the Fenner Belts and they work great. I have no interference at all. It fits just like the original belts that were on there. ------- Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Belts Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:03 am ((PDT)) I wonder whether the folks without interference problems have a different countershaft ass'y? Mine is an M6-20B from 1941 and between the crossbar supporting the cam shaft and the one halfway down the legs there's little range to avoid fouling one or the other. The 3/8" link belt rides high on the sheave and also is rather stiff, both undesirable characteristics here. And as I said before, I'm not happy about the sheave material rubbing off on the side of the belt. I think the original belt must have been a bit narrower than 3L. Yours, David Beierl -- Providence RI USA Atlas 618 6"/3/index.html" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill. ------- Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Belts Posted by: "Jim Peterson" f4d711x~xxaol.com Date: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:22 pm ((PDT)) Jacjie wrote: > Do you have the right size belt? If I remember correctly, you need 3/8" I have the genuine, red, Fenner PowerTwist 3L (3/8 inch wide) belt. ------- Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Belts Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:07 pm ((PDT)) I have the M6-20B countershaft and do not have rubbing. Jim, the pulleys on the countershaft can swing up to the back. I suspect what may be your problem is that you have too short a belt between the motor and the countershaft, preventing the pulleys from swinging high enough when you tighten the tension. Try just removing the belt to the motor and see if you can get the others into a better alignment. If so, get a longer belt for the motor. Bruno p.s. I forgot to mention... you may need to add a link or two to the belt between the spindle and countershaft. ------- (no subject) [was Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Belts] Posted by: "Ric Bergstrom" ricbergstromx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:34 am ((PDT)) I have a Fenner 3L link belt and also have rubbing on the two largest driving pulleys. The pulley mechanism is the one that arcs back from the base away from the lathe. There are a couple versions and none of the other ones look like they would interfere. I believe if you elevated the pulley brackets or angled it back slightly there would be no rubbing. Another alternative is to perhaps mill a slot in the crossbar? Ric ------- Re: Atlas 618 Lathe Belts Posted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:47 am ((PDT)) > How about some pictures and dimensions of some successful Fenner > LinkBelt Plus installations? Here's mine with the stock pulleys and a Fenner topside: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9279759x~xxN03/3323730753/ Here's what it looks like now, with the quad pulleys on the motor/countershaft and a new countershaft: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9279759x~xxN03/4302888688/ With the belt on the leftmost pulley on the countershaft, the fenner does touch the countershaft bracket, but not badly. I messed about with where the countershaft sits when in the tight/drive condition to reduce the amount of contact between the belt and the bracket when I was putting it together. The holes are drilled as per the Atlas-supplied footprint. ------- Re: 109 follower rest [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jtiers Date: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:30 pm ((PDT)) Back in another century (literally) I had a 109 and very quickly decided I needed a follow rest. I came up with a design that ie easily made with only a hacksaw, files and drills/taps. It is documented somewhere on the old rec/crafts/metalworking site as "AADOCS2". Be a long time back in the archives by now. I simply used 1/4-20 no-grade (basically mild steel) screws which I rounded and polished the ends of. They were screwed through the frame to set, and were locked by a nut on the outside of the frame. Worked well, and didn't scratch up the work enough to notice. Bronze, etc is probably nice, but I wouldn't waste either the material or the effort on the 109. The hardware store screws worked plenty well enough. I still have the original files, if anyone is still interested and wants PDFs. JT ------- NOTE TO FILE: JT's files on the 109 as of 2011 can be found on the page: http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/_1999_retired_files/ ------- Re: 618 banjo bracket atlas618lathe Posted by: "n2irz" donrotolox~xxoptimum.net n2irz Date: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:54 am ((PST)) John Bump wrote: > > I, like most people, have a two-slot banjo bracket for my Atlas, part > > number M6-25. I've heard a rumor that there's a three-slot bracket, > > that'd allow another pair of change gears, but I've not found either > > a picture or a part number for it. Has anyone any information about > > this? Thanks John "Rich" wrote: > The bracket you are looking for is an extension for banjo. > Part #M6-25M there is a drawing in the files section on how > to make one. It is for cutting metric threads. Rich There is indeed a drawing, I posted it. However, please note that the size for the 1/4" slot and the 1/4" "angled ridge" are nominal sizes: When I actually made one, the 1/4" slot was actually 17/64 to clear the OD of a 1/4" bolt cleanly, and the ridge was sized to fit comfortably in the slot of MY banjo (which may differ from YOURS). I did buy a book from Clausing for very little money called "Threading Information - Atlas 6-inch lathes" that has threading charts with Position "D" noted for some sizes. Position D is created when the extension bracket is installed. The bracket is not available anywhere, and I have never seen one that was original (and I have been looking for 30+ years). 35 years ago Clausing sent me a drawing of that bracket along with a threading chart and how it gets mounted. I lost the drawing since then, but not after I made two, from which I made the drawing only in the last year or so. I did ask Clausing for another copy of the drawing, they could not provide it, but they thought the book might help (which it did). Anthony Rhodes (anthrhodes on this group) once said he had a copy of that 'service bulletin/drawing' but I have never seen one posted. Regards, Don ------- Re: 618 banjo bracket Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:27 pm ((PST)) Don and others, I'm in the middle of scanning and cleaning various drawings and papers. In the process I've made time to scan the M6-25M Metric Gear Bracket Extension in which everybody is expressing interest. I've created a photo album, M6-735 Threading Extension etal, and posted the M6-25M drawing to the album. So far the only thing in the album is the above mentioned drawing. Along with it go the M6-735 instruction sheet and several pages of gear setups for unusual inch threads, fine feeds down to .001046", and metric pitches including 0.5, 1.75, and 2.0 mm which are not listed in the later gear charts. I have the additional pages scanned but not yet cleaned. I will try to get to them in the next couple of days. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- 618 banjo bracket Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:47 pm ((PST)) Speaking of non-standard gear trains for threading and other feeds driven from the spindle, one of the limitations of the Atlas 6" is the 24 DP gear size which makes it not possible to use small gears in a conventional manner. The smallest standard change gear is 20 teeth and the 16 tooth gear on the reverse tumbler is only possible because it is supported by the combined 32 tooth section and also doesn't require keyways which would make a conventional 16 tooth change gear too thin where the keyways were located. There are ways to work around this issue. One method would be to create a double gear similar to the 16-32 compound tumbler gear but in place of the 32 section machine the hub to be the same section as a change gear bushing. This would allow additional 16 tooth gears in a change gear setup. Used as drivers they would enable even finer feeds. The same could be done with 17, 18, and 19 tooth gears. Another method involves cutting modified profile gears. A 16 tooth gear, as an example, can be cut on a blank with a larger OD. Instead of the standard 16 tooth OD one can be cut on the OD for at least a 17 tooth gear, maybe an 18. If such an oversize gear could be cut on a blank the size of a 20 tooth gear it could be used in a gear train just as any standard 24 DP gear would be used. If anybody in the group knows about modified profile gears, and especially if any of you have the ability to produce gears based on either of the above suggestions, I'd like to hear from you, either directly or in group. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: 3b. 618 banjo bracket Posted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:46 am ((PST)) One of my current projects is building a set of 48DP cutters and cutting a small selection of gears. The specific intent is to cut a 127-tooth gear that'll fit on the banjo; in 48DP it should be pretty much the same size as our 64. Obviously the nice thing about the 127 is that it'll give me metric, but the added plus is lower minimum feed with the stock banjo. ------- New gearing chart Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:12 am ((PST)) Hi All, I've updated my old chart for change gears. The new one is in the Files section as "/metal/Atlas_618_Change_Gear_Charts.pdf". Basically, I removed the obscure entries because they were calculated, but not necessarily verified. I also put in a few notes about using English threads for metric. For example, it's possible to use 36 TPI for a .70mm thread for short distances as the accuracy is about 1/125. Bruno ------- Re: New gearing chart Posted by: "Rob Chapman" chapman49682x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:40 pm ((PST)) Thanks Bruno! I have found it very useful, and am grateful. Rob Chapman ------- Re: New gearing chart Posted by: "S or J" jstudiox~xxtbaytel.net Date: Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:36 pm ((PST)) Hi Bruno You have done a tremendous service for the Atlas 6 inch lathe users over the years by originating and updating comprehensive threading charts. The new version is particularly easy to read and use. Back in 2004 you kindly gave me permission to include a copy in the Atlas 618 Gems file that is in the group files here, as well as on my metalworking site. But your PDF version is so much friendlier and easier to print than a text file version that I have removed the old charts and now include references for readers to find your PDF file here at atlas618lathe. Everyone here is encouraged to download your PDF file and print it and post it near their lathe. Thank you Sir. Well done. regards Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Re: New gearing chart Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Dec 6, 2011 9:19 am ((PST)) I'm glad the chart will see good use! Please let me know if I've made any mistakes there. Most of the information was copied from the Atlas Manual, but we all know how easy a typo can get through. Bruno ------- Re: New gearing chart Posted by: "n5fee" n5feex~xxnetzero.net Date: Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:30 am ((PST)) Bruno, Like the others have said, thanks for the great chart. I might pass along my method of using charts like this one. I have a dozen or so of my favorite charts like this change gear chart, drill/tap sizes, speed/feed, tool sharpening guides, etc. that I have laminated using a heat laminating machine. I print them out on 8-1/2 x 11 papers, seal them up and bind them in a loose leaf binder. (Actually I now use a plastic comb binder.) The sheets are protected, and the grease and oil wipe off easily. Several of my charts are composites made by photocopying what I want, trimming them up with scissors, and arranging and gluing several charts to a sheet of paper prior to laminating. I find it is best to trim the sheets to about 8 x 10 to leave plenty of edge margin. If using multiple pieces of paper under one sheet, rubber cement helps to bind them together without bleeding thru or staining. Also, buy the thicker laminating plastic sheets, they hold up much better. Dallas ------- Re: New gearing chart Posted by: "MACMARSx~xxEMBARQMAIL.COM" Date: Tue Dec 6, 2011 1:59 pm ((PST)) Yes Bruno great job,i can now see them with my old weary eyes. Is there a bigger picture of the gear train than the one on the lathe door available?? thanks mack ------- Re: New gearing chart Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:33 pm ((PST)) Yes. In the Files section... "Atlas-Craftsman 6x18 Threading Chart.pdf " And for others with weary eyes (me included), I just uploaded "Lube Chart and Spindle Speeds.pdf", which I have posted above my lathe. It also includes some recommended lubricants which are currently available, culled from sources a few years back. Bruno ------- Re: New gearing chart Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Tue Dec 6, 2011 9:14 pm ((PST)) Bruno, I looked at your chart. Very useful, especially because it can be printed out in a highly visible size. With no intent to be critical I have a few suggestions. You might crop the change gear diagram from a photo of the change gear chart that goes inside the gear cover and post it in the PDF. Also provide a list of the standard gear set, possibly with Atlas part numbers. If you do this you could add the part numbers for the change gear bushings. If you want to be really complete you could include the same for the spindle gear, tumbler gears, compound gear in the tumbler, and banjo. Drawings or a description of any of these items would also be useful, essentially as much info as possible of the entire end gearing as can be found. I haven't reviewed your charts to see whether they use more than the standard gear set but I do know that some of the gear trains Atlas published required extras of some of the gears beyond the standard gear set. In the Atlas literature they identify which gears are extra. You might check your charts to see if any such should be so identified. I also posted the charts for the "D" position to the photos section. If you're interested in redoing your gear chart I can send you the additional gear train data and the drawing of the M6-25M Extension Bracket for the banjo as well as the cover sheet which explains its use. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Threading Information -- New Atlas Six-Inch Lathe [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Jim Peterson" f4d711x~xxaol.com Date: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:40 am ((PST)) I have uploaded the subject booklet in the Files Section, in a folder with the same title. It was a VERY large PDF, so I had to break it down into 8 sections. This booklet addresses the use of the Atlas M6-25M Metric Gear Bracket Extension for the banjo. It supplements the information on the M6-735 Instructions. Both the M6-25M drawing and the M6-735 Instructions have been recently uploaded into the files section. The M6-25M extension on the banjo provides a place for the Position D gears used for some metric threads and other applications. If you are interested only in the use of the Position D gear for metric threads, I also uploaded a file in the subject folder entitled "Metric Threads excerpts" which contains only the pages pertaining to the Position D for metric threads. Hope this information is useful to you. Jim Peterson ------- HELP! Atlas 618 Lead Screw dis-Assembly knowledge [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "y999983" arts877x~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:47 pm ((PST)) I'm trying to remove the collar (M6-114) from the feed screw (3950-16). After cleaning off the shiny hard grease accumulation from the outer surfaces of the collar, I finally found the ends of the 1/8x1-1/4 "groove pin" fixing the collar to the shaft. Both ends of the pin are flush with collar surface. Soaking continues but this pin is not budging under a small hammer and punch. Other "groove pins" I've encountered on this machine have never been 100% inserted so their "wide" grooved end remained partly exposed and such have been removed easily. How can I tell which is the "narrow" end, or does it matter and I should just reach for the sledge? Thank you for any experience you can provide me in this adventure. ------- Re: HELP! Atlas 618 Lead Screw dis-Assembly knowledge Posted by: "Terry Looney" loon432x~xxverizon.net Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:51 pm ((PST)) The collar is pressed onto a straight knurl on the lead screw and then pinned with a straight split pin. You can drive it out from either side. Just make sure you have supported the lead screw on both sides close to the collar to prevent bending the lead screw. Hope this helps, Terry Looney [Later message] Looking at the front of the lathe, the collar is on the left end of the screw where the change gears mount. ------- Re: HELP! Atlas 618 Lead Screw dis-Assembly knowledge Posted by: "n2irz" baysale976x~xxoptimum.net Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:20 pm ((PST)) I've removed this pin, and it was not tapered. Check closely to be sure this is true of your pin - measure the OD on each side perhaps. I do remember that I used a fairly large hammer. ------- Re: Atlas 6" slide and compound locking? [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:44 pm ((PST)) On 1/14/2012 7:30 PM, culverin wrote: >Newbie here, so please bear with me. >A little background. I'm in the process of rehabbing a family heirloom: >an H L Shephard treadle lathe from c1877 >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/1755632491/p\ >ic/1936410808/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=a\ >sc >This particular lathe has had a rough life and many parts are >missing; most of these I can make or adapt, but I was stumped by what to >do about the missing compound. To shorten a long story, I'm adapting the >cross slide and compound from an Atlas 6" to fit on the original >Shephard saddle. From what I can see in the old catalogs, it's going to >be a good fit and, if you don't look too carefully, it will be a perfect >replacement. That looks like an interesting project. >The parts I got off eBay were pretty gummed up, so I tore them down for >cleaning and tuning, but I've got a significant question: I can't seem >to locate anything that would function as a lock, either for the cross >slide, the compound turret, or the compound slide. The closest things >I've found are the gib screws and these funny bevelled pins that hold >the compound onto its turret. >Is this really all, or am I missing something important? Look at this picture: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/images/c-lock.jpg That is a 12". I think the 6" is similar. The square nut is used to lock the carriage. There is no lock for the compound or cross slide. My milling attachment is similar. One of the Gibbs screws is replaced with a T-handled screw. You could do the same but i find no lock is needed on the slides (the carriage one is needed.) Scott G. Henion Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 ------- Re: Atlas 6" slide and compound locking? Posted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com" Date: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:58 pm ((PST)) Bruce, To add to what Scott wrote, here's why you don't need a lock on the slides. The carriage is moved by a small spur gear running in a rack on the side of the ways. This gear is driven through its shaft by a larger gear which is in turn driven by another small gear on the end of the carriage traverse handwheel shaft. If you push on the carriage hard enough, you can spin the handwheel as all that is holding the carriage in position is the friction between it and the ways and a small amount of friction in the gears and shafts. So the carriage needs a lock for facing or milling operations. The cross and compound slides are moved by screws turning in nuts attached to the slides. The angle that the screw threads make with the longitudinal axis of the screws is small. Hence, the torque generated in the screw by pushing on the nut is small. It is much smaller than the prevailing friction generated between the screw and nut threads by pushing on the slide. Hence the slides don't move when you push on them. If you pushed on the slide hard enough, you would either shear the nut off of the slide or shear the threads out of the nut. As the push force increases without the screw turning, so does the friction generated, more or less linearly. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) ------- [atlas_craftsman] How to Preload those Balls on the Back Gear Lever- Mark II? Posted by: "xlpilot" capperisusx~xxverizon.net Date: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:55 am ((PST)) I removed the back gear lever on my Mark II to clean and lubricate. Now I don't seem to have enough hand pressure to pre-load the springs/ balls against the detent grooves. Is it OK to use a C clamp against the gear on the opposite side, until I tighten the lever set screw? Also wondering if there is any adjustment for the backlash in the back gears? Harry in Harrisburg ------- Re: How to Preload those Balls on the Back Gear Lever- Mark II? Posted by: "Harry Boyd" canerodscomx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:15 pm ((PST)) Harry, I too had a tough time getting the balls back in place. Even worse, if you lose your grip the spring will send it bouncing wildly across the room. Once they hit the floor the balls are nearly impossible to find. The first time I managed to lose them, and having no local source for bearings, I resorted to paying the Clausing prices. The second time I lost them (no, that wasn't very smart) I figured out that the little ball in a grease alemite was exactly the right size. To get the balls positioned, I wound up using a small piece of stainless shim stock between the ball and the aluminum piece with the detents. I then used a thin knife blade to press down while gingerly sliding the aluminum piece into place. There simply must be a better way... Harry in Winnsboro, LA ------- Re: How to Preload those Balls on the Back Gear Lever- Mark II? Posted by: "Guenther Paul" paulguenterx~xxatt.net Date: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:30 pm ((PST)) Harry: Some hardware stores have the steel balls. I know Ace and True Value have them here. GP ------- Re: How to Preload those Balls on the Back Gear Lever- Mark II? Posted by: "xlpilot" capperisusx~xxverizon.net Date: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:52 pm ((PST)) Harry, Guenther: I solved my problems getting this thing back together. Here is what I did: First, I took a spring type wooden clothespin apart. I found that I could wedge the tapered end of one of the halves into the space between the back of the drive pulley and the left end of the back gear lever shaft in the headstock gear area. That held the shaft firmly seated to the right, so I did not have to hold it during re-assembly. Then I put a bit of my "76 Multiplex EP" grease on the balls. This was sticky enough to hold the balls on the ends of the springs. I love this stuff. It is what I use on my change gears and inside my chucks. It is sticky enough that it doesn't sling back at me, and think enough that even the most close fitting parts get a nice lubricating film. When I was flying gas helicopters -- see http://www.capturesonine.com/our_equipment.html we used it on the main ring tail shaft pinions gears for the same reason. Harry in Harrisburg ------- Re: How to Preload those Balls on the Back Gear Lever- Mark II? Posted by: "Guenther Paul" paulguenterx~xxatt.net Date: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:03 pm ((PST)) Harry: Was there a short pin in the spring and then the ball went on top of the pin? All the little spring locks that I had apart had a pin on top of the spring. When I had them apart I use a 1/8 rod bent on a short 90 degree and ground the end down a little and all pop back in place. GP ------- Re: How to Preload those Balls on the Back Gear Lever- Mark II? Posted by: "Harry Boyd" canerodscomx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:46 pm ((PST)) Not sure which "Harry" you are asking, but I'm afraid I don't remember any short pins. There are two spring and balls. One is drilled all the way through, the other is not. But I don't remember any pins at all. Harry ------- Re: How to Preload those Balls on the Back Gear Lever- Mark II? Posted by: "xlpilot" capperisusx~xxverizon.net Date: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:04 am ((PST)) I just checked the exploded view in my manual. There are no pins. Just two 3/16 inch balls and two springs. Mine is working fine. Another puzzle, though is my threading dial assembly: I had to put a flat washer on the mounting screw, between the assembly and the carriage. Without it, the body of the assembly rubs on the carriage. There is no washer shown on the exploded view. Not a problem, just a puzzle. Harry in Harrisburg ------- Re: How to Preload those Balls on the Back Gear Lever- Mark II? Posted by: "Jay Greer" redwitch1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:37 pm ((PST)) Hi Guys: Did you know that the six inch Atlas had a ball and spring mounted behind the cross feed crank? I found one on my lathe but it was not working. Once cleaned and oiled it keeps smooth tension on the crank. Jay Greer ------- NOTE TO FILE: The Atlas 6" Timken bearing numbers can also be found here in earlier conversations, but this following message has some useful information that might save a bit of money. ------- Re: timken bearings [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "y999983" arts877x~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:49 pm ((PST)) > i am hoping some one can provide the part number(s) for timken bearings > for the head stock on my atlas 6" lathe model 10100. As stated in an earlier post, you need two 07196 cups, and one each of 07079 and 07100 tapered roller bearings. Timken packages 07196+07100 as SET15 which is a bit less expensive than purchasing the individual parts. Unfortunately, there is no matching SET for 07196+07079. I've found that jbr17llc.com is the least expensive source for these bearings. They are made by Timken in Canada. HTH ------- plain headstock bearing sizes for a 618... [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "freakfreee2000" Jeffgallopx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:36 pm ((PST)) Hi All. I have been searching the internet and as surprised as I am, I cannot seem to find a part no. or exact sizes for the bronze sleeve bearings for my craftsman 618(101.07301)...I thought it would be a quick search but...no luck. So can anyone post the parts no. or the exact sizes I will need for the bearings in the headstock, and if you have them the no.'s or exact sizes for the step pulley bearings as well I would sure appreciate it. I did find the Clausing No.'s L2-14 and L9-14 but i was looking to go to a good hardware store for them and need a more typical no. or more likely the sizes. Or am I over thinking it and maybe I should just take the spindle with me and see what they got? I am new at this and want to do it right. Thanks so much for your help. Peace JeffG ------- Re: plain headstock bearing sizes for a 618... Posted by: "gene isley" gene_isley_7x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:16 pm ((PST)) Hi group. I just ordered two bushing for my head stock on my 101.07301 618 from clausing last week. I think they were around $30 for the pair. Part #L9-14 and #L2-14. I will post the invoice when I receive the shipment. Hope this helps. ------- Re: plain headstock bearing sizes for a 618... Posted by: "Ray" ray.waldbaumx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:07 am ((PST)) Jeff, all you have to do is measure the bore and spindle sizes and the length of the bushings and take that information with you to a hardware store or bearing supplier. Bushings are listed by ID, OD and length. In the 1970s one of my coworkers was redoing a lathe just like yours that he had inherited from his uncle. It was an office of geologists but I was the resident gearhead. So my friend asked me to replace all the bushings in that machine. A local bearing supplier had them all. I pressed the spindle bushings into the headstock casting with a big clamp, then took it and the spindle to an engine shop and had the bushings honed to a perfect fit on the spindle on a big connecting rod bushing honing fixture. I recently visited my old workmate and that little lathe is still going strong. He keeps it well oiled and those spindle bushings are still a perfect fit. None of this is rocket science. Lathes are very simple machines. ------- Re: plain headstock bearing sizes for a 618... Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:27 am ((PST)) When I replaced the bushings on my 618 I found the wall of the bushings to be really thin and I could not find an off the shelf bushing that would fit. I had to get a bushing that fit the shaft and turn down the od. ------- Re: plain headstock bearing sizes for a 618... Posted by: "Ray" ray.waldbaumx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:01 am ((PST)) Glenn, I might have had to do the same thing for my workmate. It was about 35 years ago and I don't remember the exact details. Memory is the second thing to go. The message I wanted to send Jeff is that many of the challenges in resurecting these elderly lathes have simple, inexpensive solutions. Another example is lead and feed screws that have severe wear in one short area but are otherwise in good condition. The acme threaded part of those can have the ends cut off and the screw part itself "flipped" and the ends grafted back on, avoiding the expense of buying rare NOS or custom made screws. I just did that on the lead screw of the 12" Craftsman I'm restoring for my son and it turned out well. The cross feed screw on that lathe was pretty much of a mess so I made a new one on my 10" Atlas. ------- Re: plain headstock bearing sizes for a 618... Posted by: "Jeff G" Jeffgallopx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:12 pm ((PST)) Hi All. Thanks for everybody's help here. Yeah I was probably over- thinking it and will be measuring for my needs and heading to my local hardware store and then probably to Grainger...or I might just order them from Clausing like a few have recommended as I am not going to have a chance to do the job until next weekend at least. I am looking forward to seeing the measurements of the replacements that Gene ordered if he would be so kind as to post them after he receives his from Clausing as someone suggested. Thanks again for the help and the thoughts... Peace Jeff G. ------- [In reply to same above question but also posted on atlas618lathe group] Re: plain headstock bearing no.? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "n5fee" n5feex~xxnetzero.net Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:14 am ((PST)) Jeff, I have two lathes and both have timken roller bearings, so I cannot comment on the headstock bearing. I have replaced all of the sleeve bearings in the countershaft pully assembly. They were all hardware store items and 5/8 OD & 1/2 ID as I recall. I have not replaced the ones on my headstock pully. Have you measured them with calipers and see if they are a standard size? These guys have a nice chart showing all of the standard sizes: http://www.asbbearings.com/cast_bronze_Bearings.html I would bet it is a standard inch size. Dallas ------- Atlas Parts in General (was Re: [atlas_craftsman] plain headstock be Posted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com" Date: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:05 pm ((PST)) The only Atlas product that I really know anything about is the 12x36 3996 (I've owned one for more than 30 years). But I do know something about the economics and availability of parts for some other collectible equipment (vintage Land Rovers, military radios and Shopsmith's to be specific). Although they no longer stock most of the accessories for the lathes that Atlas made for so many years, Clausing does still stock a remarkable number of original parts in the category of things that wear out. And generally at, in my recent experience, reasonable prices (reasonable for 2012, anyway). Although the parts ordered by all of the owners of all of the Atlas lathes still in service wouldn't keep Clausing in business without their new equipment sales, it is in our best interest to keep them willing to continue to supply as many different parts as they do. The only way that we can do that is by buying generic parts like bushings and belts as well as custom parts from them. Their accounting people don't know the difference. All that they see is parts bought or made versus parts sold. Clausing's markup on generic parts is remarkably low in fact. Less than places like Ace, in fact. But if we buy nothing from them except those custom pieces that no one else has, it won't be too much longer before their bean counters will cut their losses and scrap the remaining stock of custom parts. Which some of us will probably eventually buy back in the form of kitchen utensils and similar uninteresting things. So if you need a generic part, call Clausing instead of spending the afternoon at your local O'Reilly's or Ace or Home Depot trying to figure out what might fit. Disclaimer - Unless my wife's Fidelity account has money invested there at third or fourth hand, I have no financial interest in Clausing. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following message came out of a much longer conversation about how best to refurbish motor commutators. ------- Re: Question about Jacobs No. 75A Armature Driving Chuck [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "n5fee" n5feex~xxnetzero.net Date: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:39 am ((PST)) I have a mica undercut attachment for the Atlas 618, I posted the factory paperwork on the unit some years ago in the files section of the 618 group. I ordered factory blades from Clausing in 2004 or thereabouts and I am pretty sure they are all straight sided and flat bottom profile just like a tiny skill saw blade. The part sheet is titled, model 510A and M6-510A Mica Undercutter for 6, 10, and 12" lathes. It looks like from the drawing, the base casting is the only difference between the 6 inch and larger lathes, since the base casting mates with the cross slide vee slide. The Atlas parts list for my unit shows the following saw blades: 9-523 0.015" 9-524 0.020" 9-525 0.025" 9-526 0.030" 9-527 0.035" They came in packs of 10 blades per size. The 2006 price list I posted, also in the 618 group files section lists the price for a pack of 10 blades ranging between $6 and $11 depending on which thickness you order. Dallas ------- Re: 618 gears. [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 6:43 pm ((PST)) In a message dated Sat Mar 3, 2012, Wayne writes: > I have a Sears 618. Am missing the 52, 46, 44, 40 and 36 teeth gears. In your experience are any of these five gears used enough to justify purchasing it? Thanks, Wayne < Wayne, Read the change gear chart and pass your own judgements. 52 is specified for 13 TPI. It would also be used for 26 TPI which is a cycle thread I believe. 46 is specified for 11.5 TPI, a pipe thread. 44 is specified for 11, 22, and 44 TPI. 40 is specified for 10, 20, 40, and 80 TPI. 36 is specified for 9, 18, 36, and 72 TPI. It can also be used for 27 TPI, another pipe thread, 'though 54 is the standard gear for that thread. Additionally, 52 and 44 are used for conversion to cut metric threads. 40 is used with 20 for doubling or halving. 40 is also used with 32 for 3/4 and 4/3 multipliers. 40 can also be used with many of the other gears for less common multipliers. Aside from the specific pair of 44 and 52 for metric conversion you would have to look at the metric thread chart to see whether the gears in question are required for any pitches in which you would be interested. Many gears, including the ones you ask about, can be used as idlers or spacers on the change gear studs. And the change gear charts don't list all possible uses for various gears, only those which Atlas decided were worth mentioning from their perspective. I would recommend getting at least the 40. The others are a more personal choice. If you're not immediately interested in the specific threads for which certain of the gears about which you're asking are specified, let me suggest, keep your eyes open for any of them being available at a price you're willing to pay, including shipping cost. When one of them shows up acquire it. Beyond expanding your options, a complete set of change gears will increase the salability of your lathe if you should upgrade and want to pass it on to somebody else. In the end, as I implied at the start of this message, only you can decide what's important to you and what it's worth. For myself, I've acquired extras of some of the gears because they are specified in the extended change gear listings and because I'm interested in gears and gear trains in their own right. I've also acquired larger gears because, even though they won't mesh with the 24 DP gears used on the Atlas 618, they can be used on the 618 and in other applications if you know how to do it. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: 618 gears. Posted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com" Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 7:26 pm ((PST)) Wayne, I'll add to the chart Anthony gives the following: 13 tpi is used on 1/2" UNC. 26 tpi is used on 1/4" BSF and on 3AT and 3C collets. 22 tpi is used on 5/16" BSF 20 tpi is used on 1/4" UNC and 3/8" BSF and so forth. Robert & Susan Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) ------- Re: Taper attachment for a 618 Atlas [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "speedphoto300" speedphoto300x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Apr 4, 2012 10:01 pm ((PDT)) "flyoldplanes" wrote: >My first post so I'll do an intro. My name is Eric & I'm in SW Michigan >west of Kalamazoo. I have a few lathes but enjoy my 618 the most. >I'm looking for plans ,drawings,etc for a taper attachment Here's a link to a photo of one: http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/ocudge/Taperfront.jpg No plans, I just made it up as I went. ------- Re: Taper attachment for a 618 Atlas Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 9:06 am ((PDT)) Eric, You don't say whether you're looking to replicate the original Atlas M6-700 Taper Attachment or if any design will do. You're very close to the Clausing Service Center in Kalamazoo, have you checked with them? I don't think that the M6-700 is still available from them but, if not, you should be able to get the original drawings from them, anything they no longer manufacture or supply. I'm attaching scans of the Instruction and Parts sheets for the M6-700 in the CCof this message which I'm sending directly to you. The individual components, for which you need drawings, are: M6-761 Taper Gauge Bracket M6-762 Pivot Bracket M6-763 Guide Bar M6-764 Draw Bar M6-765 Draw Bar Guide M6-766 Feed Slide Block M6-767 Feed Slide Nut M6-768 Taper Gauge M6-769 Pointer M6-770 Clamp M6-771 Plug M6-772 Draw Bar Guide Gib Additionally, one piece #9-398 Lock Screw is required which they may still offer. If not you need that drawing also. I see that speedphoto300 has posted a photo of a unit he made for himself, not a replica of the Atlas unit but functionally identical. There are also many similar plans readily available on the web. HSM (I think) has had many articles for taper attachments over the years including a very good one for a South Bend lathe and another for the larger Atlas lathes. If you want a replica of the original Atlas unit you need the drawings, if you simply want one that will do the job study what others have done and either use an existing design or deign your own from basic principles. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: Taper attachment for a 618 Atlas Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 6:08 pm ((PDT)) So I wrote a message regarding drawings for the original taper attachment for the Atlas 6" lathe. This afternoon I received the April/May 2012 issue of Machinist's Workshop. Page 43 has an advertisement for a commercial offering of a unit to fit the 6" lathe. http://www.mymachineshop.net Link for this product: http://www.mymachineshop.net/product_p/10038.htm Not inexpensive but it gives an option to used or build-it-yourself. Pass your own judgements. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: Questions for the group? Atlas MKII versus 618 lathe [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Steve Haskell" stevesbunkbedsx~xxaol.com Date: Tue May 1, 2012 2:49 pm ((PDT)) Heres my 2 cents. I have a MKII but don't have a 618. MKII has ball bearings on the spindle and the spindle is 1" diameter just like the 618. MKII only has a 4 step pulley so has 4 back gear and 4 direct drive speeds, total of 8 speeds and there is no countershaft (jackshaft) unless you design and build and add one. MKII uses a 1/4" wide v-belt and I think the 618 uses 3/8" wide v-belts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the 618 has total of 16 speeds - 8 back gear and 8 direct drive and has a countershaft? Atlas originally came out with the MKII and it had a ZAMAK headstock which mine has. Later they replaced the ZAMAK headstock with a cast iron design because the way attaching bolt areas were cracking on the ZAMAK according to Tony's website writeup. I bought a Craftsman cast iron headstock on ebay for my Atlas MKII but haven't installed it yet. When I get around to installing the "new to me" headstock, I'll but the ZAMAK headstock up for sale on ebay. I would guess that the cast iron headstock design is "stiffer" than the ZAMAK design. I haven't had any issues with my Atlas MKII lathe and it has handled everything I have thrown at it, but I don't use is daily. Yes, I would say there are probably more parts available for the 618 because there were more 618 lathes produced over the years. I don't think Atlas-Clausing came out with the MKII until the early 1970's and the 618 has been available since at least 1938 according to the Craftsman Catalog PDF files that I have. Steve Haskell ------- Re: Looking for advice [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "stevetbon1" jstudiox~xxtbaytel.net Date: Thu May 10, 2012 5:28 am ((PDT)) In atlas618lathex~xxyahoogroups.com, "william" wrote: > Hi I'm looking for some advice so I hope some of you will weigh-in on the subject. I have a 618 that I CNC'd some time ago. Earlier this year I picked up a Logan Model 200 which I CNC'd by using the control electronics from the Atlas. So I now have an Atlas 618 that is CNC ready (i.e. everything is there but the control electronics) that I now no longer need. The question is: In what form should I sell it? It seems that I have three options 1) sell it as-is "CNC ready", 2)put it back in its manual configuration and sell it as a regular Atlas 618 or 3) parts it out. Anyone wish to comment on the best option? Thanks WJS < Hi William. Over the years (about 16 now) that I have followed magazine articles and newsgroups discussing the 618, the subject of conversion to CNC initially included only a very small percentage of users. Interest in CNC-ing small lathes has increased significantly in the last few years, so I think your CNC-ready version will have a bigger market now. I would first advertise it as CNC-ready on Craigslist and Kijiji and wherever else you prefer. The controller electronics and software that a buyer will need to acquire elsewhere are often a matter of personal preference; so selling the lathe without the controller should be no disadvantage. Certainly you could offer to provide some practical advice on those topics to the buyer to help him/her get started. If the CNC-ready version does not sell fairly soon, you can always put the lathe back to manual where it will have a bigger market. Then sell the CNC parts separately to folks who already have a 618 or Craftsman equivalent; your conversion parts and advice would save them a lot of time. Another alternative, of course, is to keep the lathe. Having 2 (or more) lathes is not uncommon, and really needs no rationale other than "because you can" ;-) regards Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Re: Looking for advice Posted by: "ivan" hulagun66x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri May 11, 2012 11:14 am ((PDT)) Don't part it out! Santa will put coal in your stocking. Sell it to someone local to you interested in learning how to use a good small lathe... spread the knowledge, make a new friend. Ivan in SF ------- NOTE TO FILE: This next message answered questions about whether a 7X10 lathe steady rest (readily available and inexpensive) could be adapted to a 618 lathe. There had already been discussion about whether Clausing was still easily contacted, and as of this date it was unclear what is going on with Clausing since its recent move to Michigan. Their changed contact information, as shown on their website, is listed at the top of this file. However their current website contained contradictory phone numbers. ------- [atlas618lathe] [Adapt a 7X10 steady rest to a 618] Re: Is Clausing Industrial still in business? Maybe LMS steady rest Posted by: "Terry Looney" loon432x~xxverizon.net Date: Sat May 12, 2012 3:00 pm ((PDT)) HI all, I have converted a 7X10 steady rest for use on a 618. There is plenty of metal left after the modication. You will have to make a new clamp plate as the one that comes with 7X10 steady doesn't reach across the 618 ways. Mine has a 3/8" screw and flange nut the same size as the tailstock clamp. Although the rest is usable at this point, I also made new finger parts with imperial threads and tighter tolarances and added rollers. Hope this helps, Terry Looney (loonitech) ------- Leadscrew Threaded Stock ??? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "none" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed May 16, 2012 2:35 pm ((PDT)) Hello All, I am searching for a source for the 618 lathe leadscrew threaded rod such as "all-thread" rods. My 618 lathe uses 1/2" x 16 (RH) TPI thread with no longitudinal slot. A mere 24 inch length would suffice as a repair section. The old leadscrew was heavily damaged by the PO. It seems too damaged for reversing and splicing back together. This LS thread seems to be an odd one. Yes, I could single-point thread a length of 1/2 cold rolled on my other small lathe but prefer a roll- forged thread. I have checked catalogs of the usual industrial machine tool sources to no avail. Thanks, Gary ------- Re: Leadscrew Threaded Stock ??? Posted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.net deanofid Date: Wed May 16, 2012 5:33 pm ((PDT)) Gary, the leadscrew is an Acme thread form, not a common thread like you find on all-thread. Try a google search for "Acme lead screw" or "Acme thread". ------- Re: 1a. Leadscrew Threaded Stock ??? Posted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu May 17, 2012 8:08 am ((PDT)) As Gary said, not only is it Acme thread, it's Acme stub thread -- only 2/3 the depth of regular Acme thread -- and it's a non-standard pitch. Your choices are pretty much buy a new one from Clausing, a used one from Ebay, or cut your own. I believe Western Tool sells stub Acme threading bits. It's tricky: you either have to grind away one side of the threading bit or make a toolholder that allows you to tilt the bit a couple degrees so it's parallel with the thread pitch. ------- [And perhaps how to mill or machine a surface in an awkward location] Craftsman 109.21270 tail stock sliding [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "tkatzke" tkatzkex~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Sep 2, 2012 10:09 am ((PDT)) I have a Craftsman 109.21270 and the bed underneath is not finished where the tail stock lock block sets. So unless the tail stock is totally loose, it will not slide. The way they designed it getting the nut that loose is a lot of work. Any suggestions on how to take it down enough to lap it? I was thinking I could take it to a friend that has a mill and have him mill it, however I doubt he has any suitable cutter that would cut on the top side. Because of the way the bed is cast there is no way to mill it from the bottom. I just got the lathe and plan on lapping everything so it is smooth as a baby's bottom. As it is now, it takes so much to move things that once they get moving they would slam tools into the work. The tail stock reminds me of the TV pitch,`set it and forget it'. ------- Re: Craftsman 109.21270 tail stock sliding Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Sun Sep 2, 2012 12:21 pm ((PDT)) if i wanted to mill the under side from the top, i wud take my 60 deg angular cutter that screws on a 1/ 2in arbor & mount it upside down .... if that was not an option, i wud take a piece of round 0-1 tool steel ... mill a 3/8 +/- wid e flat on the end, turn down the rest for a shank & file relief on the sides & upper edge ...harden in auto xmission fluid after heating to 1450, w/ it turning in drill press at 200 rpm & quenching by bringing up the fluid while running ....be ready to blow out the flame ......temper in oven for one hour at 375 400 deg...turn off heat & allow to cool .., stone the edges ...have made most of my counter bores this way leaving a pilot, either solid or removable (easier to sharpen that way). downside is the chips need to be blown out as you mill ..& speeds need to be ONE HALF of hi speed ones. how abt milling away the obstruction to allow a conventional cutter ??? spring loading the clamp plate so as you loosen & it springs away for clearance may make life easier. if i REALLY wanted to correct the problem, & it was staring me in the face, i feel sure i cud accomplish it ...& most probably your machinist friend & many many others can do so as well. best wishes doc ------- Re: Craftsman 109.21270 tail stock sliding Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Sun Sep 2, 2012 12:31 pm ((PDT)) Doc wrote: > if i wanted to mill the under side from the top There are T-slot cutters and side mills that will cut the underside of a lip. The side cutters need an arbor. To do it right you need a milling machine that has enough X travel to do the bed in one pass, otherwise you'll end up with a step between the two passes. Jon ------- Re: Craftsman 109.21270 tail stock sliding Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.com Date: Sun Sep 2, 2012 3:38 pm ((PDT)) For my 6" Atlas, I put a spring around the bolt, and that pushes the "T" down when I loosen the nut. Now quarter turn makes it slide free. I took old double box end wrench and cut it off so that is my tail stock wrench. It stays on there all the time. By indexing it, I can loosen it, move it and tighten it without removing the wrench. Hope this helps. chart ------- Re: Craftsman 10121400 Gears [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Thu Sep 6, 2012 9:24 am ((PDT)) In a message dated Wed Sep 5, 2012, alvinjohnson72 writes: > I see a few sets of Atlas gears for sale on E-Bay. Is there any place > else that might sell Atlas gears? Also, are all 6" Atlas/Craftsman > gears (Craftsman 109-110, Atlas 618) the same? Alvin, 101 is the preface used by Sears on their Craftsman lathes manufactured by the Atlas Press Co., now Clausing. 109 is the preface used by Sears on the lathes manufactured by AA (Co, ?) which were marketed as either Craftsman or Dunlap or both, can't remember just now. Atlas and AA are/were completely different companies, no relationship between them, and their are no interchangeable parts, EXCEPT for the change gears. I presume AA made their own gears but they can be used interchangeably between the two makes of 6" lathes. The specs on the gears are what you really need to know for the possibility of sourcing from odd places: 24 DP, 14-1/2 Deg, Pressure Angle, 3/8" wide, 1/2" bore, two opposed keyways 1/8" wide x 1/16" deep. Don't forget, you need at least 2 change gear bushings, a couple more would be good to have, and the original set also included 2 steel spacers which I could have mentioned the first time around, again, extras can't hurt. Sources, Ebay, probably Craig's List, Clausing, maybe Sears Parts Dept. Browning Gears and Boston Gear used to be good sources, but I'm not certain that they currently offer 24 DP change gears. Also, anybody who can make good gears for you, including many hobbyists on these various machine tool groups. Gears made by hobbing or using gear shapers (a type of gear cutting machine) are preferable but those made using Brown & Sharpe type cutters are usually fine. I acquired steel 21 and 30 tooth gears from Clausing in December 2011. Non-standard for the inch lathes but used on the Atlas metric version of the 6" lathe. There is also supposed to be a 60 tooth gear but they didn't have them at the time, don't know if it's available currently. Clausing part numbers for these gears are: #341-384 21 tooth 24 DP Change Gear #341-383 30 tooth 24 DP Change Gear #341-385 60 tooth 24 DP Change Gear Given the opportunity, I'd like to acquire a 34 tooth gear which can be set up 34/36 as a reasonable substitute for 120/127 as a metric conversion. 37/47 is a reasonable conversion for 100/127, the 21 can be used in various combinations for converting from inch to metric threads (look at the gear charts for any of the Asian 7" mini-lathes). Hope some of the above is useful to you. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: bull gear ball and spring [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "none" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:15 am ((PDT)) "mike" wrote: > anyone know the size of screw thats used in the bullgear on the spindle? > mine didnt come with anything there, and i'm wanting to replace those > parts. thx Mike, I believe that you are talking about the small machine screw that retains the oil for the backgear shaft. Mine measures: #10-24 machine screw by .250 reach. It is a slot head type screw. Gary in AZ ------- Re: bull gear ball and spring Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:08 am ((PDT)) Mike. There are two set screws in the bull gear, one to lock the gear to the spindle and the other to capture the spring and ball which index the pin which locks the bull gear to the pulleys when in direct drive. I presume it's the second one in which you're interested. The 618 manual specifies #8 x 3/16" cup point. I presume the ball and spring are 1/8" OD, don't know the length or strength of the spring. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: bull gear ball and spring Posted by: "iron1951" iron1951x~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:43 am ((PDT)) From the "Atlas 618 Manual.pdf" which I found on the net but I don't remember where (a good document to have btw). For the spring, ball and pin, 8-32 x 3/16 headless set screw. To keep the gear assembly from moving on the shaft 8-32 x 3/8 socket set screw with a cup point. ------- Keeping bull gear pin in place [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "ltpatrickx~xxsbcglobal.net" cutwood63x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:33 pm ((PST)) Hi, On the spindle just inside the case there is the bull gear and next to it is the pulleys that drive the spindle. There is a pin that goes thru the bull gear into the pulley. (Moderator note: see atlas618lathe photo album "Back Gear Illustrated") My problem is the pin will not stay engaged to drive the spindle. Is there a snap ring that goes in the grove of the pin. Or some other way to keep the pin engaged? Thanks, Larry ------- Re: Keeping bull gear pin in place Posted by: "iron1951" iron1951x~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:17 pm ((PST)) On the bull gear (M6-241) there are two socket set screws. One keeps the gear close to the pulley (2140-10) and the other set screw holds a spring and ball (M6-257 & M6-214) which locks the bull gear pin (M6-256) in position. Sounds like you are missing the spring and ball if the pin does not lock in the in or out position. Also on my machine sometimes the setscrew loosens up and the back gear moves away from the pulley and even if the pin is in position, the gear does not grab. ------- Re: Keeping bull gear pin in place Posted by: "n1ltv" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:04 pm ((PST)) The correct wording refers to the bull gear, not the back gear: "Also on my machine sometimes the setscrew loosens up and the **bull** gear moves away from the pulley and even if the pin is in position, the gear does not grab." A craftsman manual has a parts diagram that incorrectly identifies the bull gear, which is probably why iron1951 made this mistake. Hank ------- Re: Nevermind about that set screw... [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "mtltinker" davelj6x~xxmsn.com Date: Sat Jan 5, 2013 7:36 am ((PST)) "gormanao" wrote: > I poked around the older posts and found the answer, and the pin to > engage the spindle pulley. Just took me a while to find the hole it > fits into. The screw in the pulley is an oil port for the pulley bearings and should never be tightened. Every time you use back gear you should remove the screw and oil with sae 10 oil, replace the screw and back it out 1 or 2 turns so it does not contact the spindle. Disengage the pin in the bull gear from the pulley before engaging the back gear. I use a large veterinary hypodermic syringe purchased from a farm store with the sharp point ground off to lube the pulley bearings and other difficult points to lube. ------- Re: What holds the pulley assembly on the spindle? A single set screw Posted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jan 6, 2013 2:31 pm ((PST)) Actually tightening that setscrew was not what you wanted to do. There is a pin in the side of the bull gear which locks the pulleys in place when you're not in back gear. The bull gear is keyed to the spindle. The setscrew is an oiling point for the bearings, and will scar the spindle if tightened down. This makes it impossible to remove the pulleys in the future. ------- Change gear confusion [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "southern_chinook" southern_chinookx~xxyahoo.ca Date: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:02 am ((PST)) Hi Folks, Because of my inexperience and ignorance I need a bit of help figuring out the change gear set up on an Atlas 618. I am attempting to cut some 1.25 mm metric threads (even though I haven't even perfected standard thread yet!)and the chart says I need a 40I and 20S gear in combination. I understand the S gear is simply a spacer gear to fill the void. I think I finally have most of the other assembly figured out but I can not figure out why the 20S is required. Wouldn't any gear size work if it is just used as a spacer? I am just curious how many gears make for a complete original set for the Atlas 618? Don P. ------- Re: Change gear confusion Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:32 am ((PST)) They always use a 20 for a spacer as it is the smallest and it will not interfere with other gears. The idlers can be any size as long as they are big enough to separate the other gear pairs. Scott G. Henion Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 ------- Re: Change gear confusion Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:19 am ((PST)) Don, There are officially 9 gears in the Change Gear set. This does not count 5 more gears (2X64T, 48T, 24T & 20T) called Quadrant Gears on some parts lists and considered (by Atlas) a part of the basic lathe. So if you pull the gears off of the quadrant and count all of them there should be 14. Plus 2 gears and a compound gear on the tumbler. Plus there are 3 gear spacers called for, one on the Quadrant (banjo) in the factory setup and two loose. I don't know whether you had to buy 2 of those separately or what, as there is a note under the drawing of the Change Gear Set that says "Less Spacer". Anyway, you can as Scott just wrote, use any gear as a spacer so long as it is small enough to not hit anything else. You could also make a spacer. Make it the same size as a 20T gear with no teeth. An Idler is a gear that is between any two other gears in the same plane. Its tooth count is immaterial, as you can see if you calculate the ratios in 3 gears in a row. Calculate 1 to 2. Then calculate that ratio to 3. Finally calculate 1 to 3 and you will get the same answer (but opposite rotation direction). So if you don't have a 40T but do have a 36T or a 44T and if with them in place all of the gears in the train mesh properly, you could use the alternate. An Idler could also be called a Reverser. The change gear charts were I'm sure made up to use only gears out of the 14 total normally available. If the 40T happened to be needed somewhere else, the chart would show something else for the Idler. Robert Downs Houston ------- Re: Change gear confusion Posted by: southern_chinookx~xxyahoo.ca Date: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:21 am ((PST)) Thank you so much for the excellent explanation! Don P. ------- Re: What kind of tolerances can be expected from a Mk2? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "stinson108_1" stinson108_1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:54 pm ((PST)) Hi there, I have a Mark II with the "lighter Zamack" headstock from what I can tell. It still does a reasonable job, though I don't think of it as a heavy duty lathe. I think with care you could be accurate to 0.001". What do you need? Often I find +/- 0.005 is more than adequate for the thing I'm making. In my experience, these little lathes will do 0.001" if set up properly (leveled, good gibs, etc.). Read on for my experiences with my Mark II. I am a hobbyist and not a full time machinist so feel comfortable on mild steel and aluminum that I can hold 0.001-0.002 with reasonable setup and care while turning. I do wonder if titanium or harder materials that require heavy cuts to avoid "work hardnening" would be challenging on this lathe. Other than that, they will hold reasonable accuracy. You just can't "hog" 0.050 cuts on it. My Mark II was very lightly used and still is so it's not worn out. I have made 3 mods that have made a huge difference to the lathe's performance: 1) New brass gib strips 2) New "adjustable" cross-slide nut that only has 1-2 mils of lash 3) DC variable speed motor. A VFD would be better if starting from scratch -- I wasn't These mods have made this a very handy "little" lathe. If you are looking at one, do check the pulleys on the motor and lathe. Any "runout" in the pulleys will kill finish in my experience. On my lathe the zamack motor pulley was bent by someone previous to me and it literally can't be used because it shakes the lathe so badly. Clausing wanted something crazy ridiculous like $180 for a replacement one so that will be a future project i.e. cutting my own multistep pulley. Right now I have a single step motor pulley I made and it made a huge difference. Try to get the change gears if you pick one up. I had to shell out about $100 to get mine. The motor v-belt is one of the downsides of a MarkII to me i.e. it is a 2L belt. This makes it "odd sized" in terms of aftermarket pulleys and belts. You can get the belts all day off the web, but I have yet to find a link belt in 2L size. Parting is another thing that needs very careful attention on this little lathe. Earl Bower used to sell an add on to the cross slide for milling and backside parting tool holders. This was on my list, but I think Earl's website is gone. It seems he has retired, or closed down, or just plain left us? Perhaps someone on the list knows this? I have just acquired an Atlas 12x36 and I just walked by the little Mark II and frankly I'm having a hard time thinking of selling it because it works well and I have whipped it into shape. I also have all the goodies I want for it. So I by no means think it's junk or unusable. I think with some care you could do work that is more accurage than 0.001 if you wanted to spend the time learning to do that on the these little lathes. I started with this lathe when I didn't have space for bigger iron. If you have space I would say it's always easier to do small work on a big lathe than big work on a small lathe. My $0.02 on the Mark II. Ian ------- [atlas618lathe] 618 tailstock replaced with one that holds an MT2 Morse Taper? Posted by: "rcjge" jgpedwardsx~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:02 pm ((PST)) Hey Guys: I was looking at my Mk2 today thinking about how I might fit a larger TS since the original is so tiny relative to the width of the ways. Has anyone done this or contemplated it? There are just so darn many MT2 accessories.... Thanks, Gareth ------- Re: 618 tailstock replaced with one that holds an MT2 Morse Taper? Posted by: "none" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:23 am ((PST)) Hello Gareth, Take a look at the 7x10 etc series of Asian lathe tail stocks. The base plate on mine measures about 1/2" thick which makes the upper about the height of the Atlas 6 inch tail stock center-line. Source: http://www.LittleMachineShop.com part number: 1884 x~xx $ 71.95 each complete assembly. Mods to the bottom of the 7x10 TS would be needed as it is narrow and can fall between the little 6" Atlas bedways. That Asian tailstock uses the ever-popular #2MT taper tooling but slightly shortened in length. I just put my 618 Atlas TS beside my HF 7x10 TS to compare. The barrel ram of the 7x10 is a larger OD by about .117 inches. For the $72 plus S/H I'd just use #1MT shank tooling. Even old #1MT drill bit shanks can be recycled for other purposes. Gary in AZ ------- Re: 618 tailstock replaced with one that holds an MT2 Morse Taper Posted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:17 am ((PST)) I tried this when I had the 618's cheap little sibling, the Craftsman with the triangular-shaped ways, because the #0 tailstock was so limiting and on mine the tailstock wasn't colinear with the headstock. It was surprisingly difficult to bore a tailstock colinear with the headstock. I was not able to make anything that was usable: even with shimming, a live center would be accurate only at one point of extension and everywhere else would be off-center in some direction or another. I tried making a clamp that attached the tailstock base to the feed/thread screw, and drove the new tailstock along the ways while I ran a boring bar between the headstock and the original tailstock. That had the best results of the things I tried, but kept binding as it was driving, meaning a lot of broken stuff and lousy finish. Trying to attach the new tailstock to the cross-slide with packing and line it up as best I could didn't work at all. It'd sure be nice to have a slightly larger, #2MT tailstock, no doubt. ------- Re: Hand Crank [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "George" gbritnellx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:42 am ((PST)) > Probably a stupid question to most of you, but, how do you make and use > a hand crank for the 618?? I want to use it for some threading. I have a crank handle made for my lathe. I made a bushing that fits into the inside of the spindle with a hole drilled through the center. The bushing is then split on an angle (30 degrees?) A bolt goes through the center and out through the handle. When the nut is tightened the split bushing ramps up and jams inside the spindle. It works quite nicely. If you go to the following link you will see what I used it for. http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/5-cylinder-radial-win ters-project-15122/index13.html gbritnell ------- Re: Hand Crank Posted by: "blader40207" sbneurathx~xxinsightbb.com Date: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:49 am ((PST)) I gave up trying to make one, and bought one from Tallgrass Tools, (Jan Michael in Stillwater, OK. It's great. I use it to wind large clock mainsprings. Sonny ------- Re: Hand Crank Posted by: "none" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:58 pm ((PST)) Ken, Install a crank handle on the outboard end of a collet drawbar. The 618 Atlas uses a 2MT taper collet with a typical 3/8-18 UNC thread. If using all-thread rod for your drawbar then double-nut the outboard end to attach a simple crank. A 2MT collet retains the drawbar crank device. The collet can also retain the work. Gary ------- Re: belts and quick change toolpost for 618 [atlas618lathe] Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Tue May 7, 2013 5:31 pm ((PDT)) In a message dated 05/07/2013, ajhuffx~xxearthlink.net writes: >Not sure if this is helpful but on my lathe the long belt is labeled NAPA >3L350 and the short belt is labeled NAPA 3L210. So I assume I would just >go to any any NAPA store to replace? -AJ AJ, Assuming that the two belts that you have are the same length as the original belts (I own a 3996 so checking it wouldn't help), short answer is "yes". However, you don't have to go back to NAPA if there's any reason not to. The belts used on Atlas and Craftsman 6", 9", 10" and 12" machines (except for two belts on the cabinet model 12") are all of the classification "Light Duty" or "Fractional HP". Belt cross-section size is identified by the first digit and the letter. The remaining three digits are the outside belt length or OD in tenths of an inch. So 3L means 3/8" wide on the outside. 210 means 21.0" and 350 means 35.0" OD. Prices vary and may be an indication of quality. Don't buy the cheapest one you can find, especially for the spindle belt. Robert D. ------- Re: belts and quick change toolpost for 618 Posted by: danmargolienx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue May 7, 2013 5:41 pm ((PDT)) There are old posts u can search for belts that come apart to install so u don't need to remove the headstock to install. They are also adjustable made of links. ------- Atlas 618 Spindle and Backgear Questions [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "David Weaver" abigalesdadx~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:46 pm ((PDT)) Hello. A little background. I purchased an Atlas 618 at an estate sale about 6 months ago It was originally purchased new in 1968 and I'm the second owner. It was sitting there in the garage saying 'buy me!'. I offered $200 and the next thing I knew I was loading it, the base, and various attachments and tooling in my car. I have not used a lathe before, but owning and learning to use one is on my bucket list. What was not on my bucket list was disassembling, repairing, and reassembling portions of it. I turned it on and off before I purchased it, and it seemed ok, but when I reassembled the in my shop I got a screaming noise from the spindle. That noise precipitated my journey to take the back gear and spindle assembly off the machine, examine and repair any defects, reassemble it, and finally use it. I started six months ago, and have worked on it as I've had time. It's been interesting, at times frustrating and at times satisfying, but I really want this thing back together and in working order. I did not find anything obviously wrong with the spindle, other than some loose set screws. All the spindle parts were there, the bearings were good, and other than messing up the collar (got a Clausing replacement) on the left end of the spindle, it is now back together. I followed the instruction sheets I got off the group website and got the spindle tight (it doesn't move left or right). When I started reassembling the back gear I ran into a problem because two of the washers were missing. Back to Clausing for new ones. Looking on the original Atlas gbc bound guide that came with the new lathe, I began to reassemble it. What has me confused is the guide shows one back gear shaft collar, but the Dean Willams website (http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/atlas/backgear/backgear.html) shows his 618 with two collars. What's up with that?? There is room for another collar on mine, and I think it might function properly with a second collar, but the diagram calls for just one. (see attached scanned diagrams and photo). This brings up a question that shows my current total lack of understanding of this machine. Just what does the back gear do? I can see that the eccentric shaft fittings on each end will lock the bull gear and the pulley cone together, but isn't the pulley cone and the bull gear already firmly affixed to the spindle and therefore locked together? Maybe I've got something wrong, but the bull gear is keyed to the shaft and the pulley cone has a set screw that grabs the spindle. OK. Enough for now. Please help me out. Thanks! Dave 3 of 3 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/attachments/folder/ 26056607/item/list ------- Re: Atlas 618 Spindle and Backgear Questions [3 Attachments] Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:03 pm ((PDT)) Mine (my grandfather's), built in 1941, has two collars. Yours, David ------- Re: Atlas 618 Spindle and Backgear Questions [3 Attachments] Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za Date: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:23 pm ((PDT)) David, The back gear is for gearing down the speed of the spindle for threading or turning large pieces - or any other application requiring a slower speed. The pulley should be free to rotate on the spindle ( needs to be oiled ), and is normally engaged to the front bull gear with a pin. If you pull back the pin the two are not engaged to each other. If the pulley is not free to rotate when you have withdrawn the pin, check that the set screw in the pulley is not tightened onto the shaft - it is only there to plug the hole after you have oiled the pulley bush through the hole. If you then engage the back gear, the pulley/gear drives the back gear, and the back gear drives the front bull gear, at a much reduced speed. Have fun, Carvel ------- Re: Atlas 618 Spindle and Backgear Questions [3 Attachments] Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:45 pm ((PDT)) Dave, Before I try to answer any of your questions, I need to correct a serious error in your understanding of how the spindle went back together. The slotted head screw in the spindle pulley is NOT a set screw. It is an oil plug. Read the lubrication instructions again. You remove the screw (manual says each time before using back gear) and squirt a generous amount of SAE 20 into the hole. And then replace the plug. You'd better pull the screw and make sure that the end of it doesn't come anywhere close to the spindle. There have been several machines of various sizes turn up either here or on H-M where a PO had somehow managed to run the threads all the way through the pulley and had the plug locked to the spindle. One spindle was scored so badly that the pulley and gear bushing nearest the bull gear (larger of the two spindle gears) was ruined when the new owner removed the spindle from the headstock. The spindle was saved but the bushing had to be replaced. The purpose of the back gears is to reduce the spindle RPM by a factor of about 6. To use the back gears, first oil the pulley bushings. Then rotate the spindle until you locate a pin sticking out of the right side of the bull gear. Pull this pin out as far as it will go. You will probably need to use a flat blade screw driver to get it loose. With the pin pulled out, you should be able to rotate the spindle freely without the pulley turning. Then engage the back gears. With the machine running in back gear you will see that the pulley is turning much faster than the spindle. There is a speed chart in the MoLO (Manual of Lathe Operations) and a copy of it edited to say it is correct for 6, 9, 10 and 12 in the Files section. 8 of the speeds are for when the machine is in direct drive. The remaining 8 are for when it is in back gear. On the one or two collar question, I have, between 618, 101.07301 and 101.21400, six different 6" manuals, one of which is I think the same as the one that you have (if yours does show the round nose set screw in the spindle pulley and the set screw in the bull gear - some do not show any set screws). Three show or call for two collars, one shows a steel washer and a fiber washer, and two show only a "washer" which from the part number seems to be a fiber washer. I do not know what the explanation for these anomalies is but if your back gears has space for another collar, I would add one. According to the two drawings that show it, it goes between the left eccentric and the M6-255 Fiber Washer. To extend the mystery, another manual calls for 4 of the fiber washers, but it is one of those early ones with all of the parts spread out loose on a table. So I don't know whether the same washer might be used somewhere else as well. And this is one of the two parts lists that call for two collars. Does the M6-253 collar that you have have a set screw in it? If so could you tell me the thread and length? I'll add it to my manual copies. Robert D. Robert & Susan Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Gearsette Instructions for Atlas & Craftsman 6" [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:36 pm ((PDT)) Can't find the emails that asked about them but I just uploaded to the group's Files section the instruction sheets for all six of the Gearsettes. All in one PDF under Lathe Accessories. Sorry that it took longer than expected. Some of the sheets were a bear to clean up. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- 618 back gear reassembly question [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "David Weaver" abigalesdadx~xxcomcast.net Date: Thu Aug 8, 2013 7:54 pm ((PDT)) The eccentric with the handle that engages the back gear on the right side of the head stock: Any tricks to getting the spring and ball bearing back in place upon reassembly? Thanks! Dave ------- Re: 618 back gear reassembly question Posted by: "Ken Harrington" dreamcraftersx~xxmsn.com Date: Fri Aug 9, 2013 9:53 am ((PDT)) Unplug the machine!! Loosen the collar(s) M6-253 (mine has two) so the shaft can stick out more on the right side. If you need something to get a grip on the shaft to turn/locate it, remove the 10-24 oil hole cover screw and insert a 1" long brass screw in to lock onto the shaft. This will allow you to turn the shaft by rotating the back gear (**don't forget to remove this before starting the lathe**). Find an allen wrench that the short leg will fit up through the bottom side of the roll pin hole (in the eccentric M6-251) and engage the shaft (a 7/64 allen works on mine). Position the shaft so that it is just past wide open; this places the spring and ball on top. Place the eccentric partway onto the shaft; insert the allen key partway into the bottom side (now on top) of the roll pin hole; holding the spring and ball in place with a thin screw driver, slide the assembly the rest of the way onto the shaft. When it's all lined up, push the allen into the hole in the shaft and that will hold it in place so you can rotate the eccentric around and insert the roll pin. As the pin goes in it will push out the allen wrench. Now readjust the collar(s) to take any slop out of the back gear and snug up the eccentric. Oil it good and make chips. I'm sure there are many more ways to skin that cat but thats how I did it. It would probably help to get two more hands involved? Ken ------- Re: atlas 6 inch spindle size [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:29 am ((PDT)) In a message dated 08/28/2013, omsrofx~xxgmail.com writes: > does anyone know if there really are woodworking face plates that are 1 x 8TPI that would fit the metal working 101's and 618's with that thread?? A wood working face plate might be useful for turning non- metal materials like plastics (even wood) etc that could be held to face plate with > screws. Dennes Forsmo < There were. But there were no 618's with 1"-8 threads. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: atlas 6 inch spindle size Posted by: "Charlie Gallo" Charliex~xxTheGallos.com Date: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:54 am ((PDT)) > There were. But there were no 618's with 1"-8 threads. You SURE? I had a 6" Atlas/Craftsman with a 1"-8 spindle, bronze bearings - was not an AA. If I remember right, the EARLY 618s were 1"-8. Charlie www.baysidephoto.com www.thegallos.com ------- Re: atlas 6 inch spindle size Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za Date: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:05 pm ((PDT)) Charlie, This is crux of this discussion i.e. what do you mean by a 6" Atlas/Craftsman"? It seems the "Craftsman Atlas" was 1"x8 , and the "Atlas Atlas" was 1"x10. Regards, Carvel ------- Re: atlas 6 inch spindle size Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:46 pm ((PDT)) Charlie, That is, as Carvel mentioned, the crux of the question. I have Atlas catalogs about every two or three years from before they started making any 6" (which was in about about 1937) until they started making the Mk2 (about 1973). And I have Craftsman catalogs pretty much every year over the same period. None of the Atlas catalogs show a 6" with other than Timken bearings and 1"-10 spindle nose threads. And none of the Craftsman catalogs prior to 1958 show any Atlas built/Craftsman badged 6" with anything but sleeve bearings, and except for 1938, 1"-8 spindle nose threads. The Craftsman lathe built by Atlas that you had must have been a 101.07301, which is a 6x18 but is NOT a 618. Starting in late 1957, Sears started selling the 618 but with Craftsman badges and a Sears Model Number, 101.21400. I know that there are numerous places on the Internet where an erroneous statement is made about 618's having both 1"-8 and 1"-10 threads. But it's disinformation caused probably by the propensity of many people to call all Atlas (and some AA) built 6" swing by 18" between centers lathes "618". Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Way Wipers Craftsman/Atlas 618 [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "James Adams" giemon23x~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:49 am ((PDT)) Hello, I just got my first small hobby lathe, craftsman 101.07301. I am new to Atlas/Craftsman Lathes and so glad that I found this forum. I have used a South Bend 9a at work and larger lathes mostly for parts adjustment and polishing. The one thing I noticed is they all had way wipers. My Craftsman 6" does not. Also I have seen a few posts about oils but I still have a few questions. Here are my questions: 1. Are way wipers necessary/recommended on the Atlas 6" lathe? 2. Has anyone added way wipers to their 6" Atlas Lathe? If so could you give some recommendations about how to add them. 3. Is it safe to use #10 Spindle oil on the Atlas spindle? Thanks for all the help! ------- Re: Way Wipers Craftsman/Atlas 618 Posted by: ksierensx~xxmsn.com Date: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:15 am ((PDT)) I am also thinking about adding wipers to my 6" lathe. I plan on finding a small baking pan or cookie sheet and cutting off the corners to use for them. ------- Re: Way Wipers Craftsman/Atlas 618 Posted by: "Kelly Wilson" chiselkingx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:50 am ((PDT)) Well I recently bought a 820 Logan; the wipers are simple tin corners with felt trapped in between with one screw holding the works together. ------- Re: Way Wipers Craftsman/Atlas 618 Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:34 pm ((PDT)) they are very easy to bend up in the vise /pliers from lite sheet metal .... biggest hassle is pulling the cariage & driling /tapping for screws .... maybe clamp w/ locktite wud work .... felt can be from old hat, old weather stripping, wife's hat .... whatever. i made replacements for a wards logan 10 inch abt a dozen yrs ago in very little time. never seemed to have a problem w/ my 1957 6x18 crftsmn lacking wipers, although i know some have made them. FWIW ...neither my 1895 14 inch Reed, 1890's 15 inch Prentice, 1890 Barnes 9 inch, nor WW1 14 inch Monarch A have way wipers. best wishes doc ------- Re: Way Wipers Craftsman/Atlas 618 Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:55 pm ((PDT)) I don't know why Atlas did not put way wipers on any of the 6". Maybe a cost/price cutting move. I've never actually had any of the 6" under my hands but another owner and I discussed the subject a few months ago and it appears judging from closeup photos he sent me that the felts, wipers (technically, they are two different parts) and covers/holders for the 10" and 12" could be fairly easily fitted to the two rear positions and to the left front one. Would just require one correctly located tapped hole in each position. But the threading dial is in the way of where the right front one wants to go and I didn't pursue options beyond that. Robert & Susan Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: Sleeve Bearing question on 618 lathe [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:35 pm ((PST)) 02/13/2014, jeffreygalellax~xxyahoo.com writes: > Hello everyone. My name's Jeff, I am new to this and I have a question that maybe dumb but, I can't understand how the oil fed through the cups on the headstock would go through the brass (?) sleeve bearings & onto the spindle. I just picked up an old DIRTY craftsman badged 618. I am getting it cleaned up &put together - photos to follow. This lathe seems to me, under a lot of dirt &grease, to be in decent enough shape. It came complete with follow rest, milling attachment, 3 different Jacob's chucks, collet bar and a lot of original tooling that seems to be complete from what I have seen in the old Craftsman catalogs from 1930's. As I have been poking around looking at other 6" lathe photos- mine seems to have very rough castings. Not the feel of the cast but rather, some of the lines in the design aren't as defined as others I've seen. Like I wrote I will def. post some before & after pics. Can anyone also tell me what some of the original colors these were painted in the mid to late 30's? I appreciate any help. Thank you. Jeffrey < Jeffrey, As someone else mentioned, the bushings are (or were originally) a proprietary type sold by Oilite. They were made of sintered bronze and are porous. If you put oil on the outside, it seeps through to the inside by capillary action. FWIW, if your lathe has sleeve bearings, it is not a 618 with Craftsman badges. It is a 101.07301 that was made by Atlas but only ever sold by Sears. A lot of people confuse 618 with 6X18, thinking that they mean the same thing. But 612 and 618 were the two Atlas (only) model numbers of the two versions of 6" lathe that Atlas sold from 1938 until about 1973. For whatever reason, they made the sleeve bearing 101.7301 for Sears from 1939 until 1957 (there was a short-lived 101.07300 sold in 1938). Most of the parts except for the headstock and spindle were the same but if someone says that they have a 618, it should have Timken bearings. If it doesn't, it isn't a 618. I think this tendency toward sloppy nomenclature plus the ease with which both information and dis-information spreads through the Internet fostered the old wives tale that some 618's have 1"-8 spindle threads. Which isn't true. From start to finish, the Timken bearing Atlas built 6" machines all have 1"-10. Only the 101.07301 has 1"-8. As far as usability goes, as far as I can tell if the sleeve bearings are in good condition the 101.07301 works just as well as the 618. So if I needed a 6" and had one in good condition, I wouldn't be in any hurry to change. The same is true of the babbit bearing versus Timken bearing 12"'s. Beginning in 1958, Sears (and Atlas) discontinued the 101.07301 and began selling the 101.21400, which is in fact a 618 but with Craftsman badges. From then on in both 6" and 12", Atlas made and both Atlas and Sears sold the same machines except for badges. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- [atlas618lathe] I'm using my newly restored Atlas 618 in my Journey to Journeyman Posted by: jster11x~xxhotmail.com jster1963 Date: Wed Apr 2, 2014 12:45 pm ((PDT)) I'm trying to learn how to use my newly restored Atlas 618 lathe. So I've started a new You tube series called "journey to Journeyman" where I am learning how to be a hobby machinist. My first project I made a spindle thread protector. I know it's not much, but it's a big deal to me. Here is the link if you want to see the video. http://youtu.be/AvLhSBAt13s http://youtu.be/AvLhSBAt13s 1 of 1 Photo(s) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas618lathe/attachments/827385281 DSC_0018.JPG ------- Re: I'm using my newly restored Atlas 618 in my Journey to Journeyma Posted by: zoyagenax~xxyahoo.com gennady_123 Date: Wed Apr 2, 2014 11:00 pm ((PDT)) Very exciting video (at least, for me). First of all, the restoration outcome is outstanding. I should admit that I would never be able to embark on the project like this. In fact, I would be very proud if I accomplish 25% of what you did. I am in the learning process myself with the same lathe (Atlas 618), just started earlier (first with Unimat). So everything I saw is close to my heart. Just few comments/suggestions. You know, There is a lot of accomplished machinists in this group and related ones, yet the temptation to be the first to reply and share my impressions and memories is strong. It is also a bit of a kind of envy of mountain climber toward the others who have everything yet ahead in the future. Your tap looks like the bottoming one, so no wonder that it required significant force to cut. With taper one it would be easier (I know, you will not be buying another 1"x10 tpi, so it is just side note). You may start and cut few threads just to get a good alignment on the lathe and then you can remove the part and finish tapping in the vise. You need to download the machinist tables with the threading parameters (check the file section). Yet it is amazing how you came to right internal diameter of the thread. You may know that in metric world the tap drill is major diameter minus pitch. This is what you kind of intuitively calculated: one inch minus 1/10. Obviously, I would guess, you next step might be cutting the thread on the lathe by single point. I learned it myself on the same project - thread protector (10 tpi). Believe me, it is not the rocket science. When you have the right threading bit, it is just patience repeating the steps with small cuts and eventually checking the fit. Very nice start with beautiful lathe with many features and attachments (QCTP, variable speed, milling att., steadies, etc.). On top of it, you also took the efforts to make excellent quality video and share it. Best regards, Gennady ------- [reaming a bearing to fit a spindle] 109 Lathe Bearing Size [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Jason Rossitto" jasongetsdownx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Apr 5, 2014 1:27 pm ((PDT)) Hi folks, I have a Craftsman 109.20630 lathe and I need to replace the bearings on the stepped pulley (A-3106). My plan is to buy a 0.5" ID 0.75" OD Oilite bearing, ream the inside, and turn down the outside. I've never done something like this so before I spend $40 on a reamer, I want to make sure I'm getting the right one. There are two different spindle drawings in the files on the Yahoo group site. One calls the diameter 0.551 and the other 0.550. I'm guessing I should just measure mine and buy a reamer that matches, but should I ream it to the exact size or allow a half thou of clearance? If I can't find one that matches exactly how far over sized is acceptable? Thanks! Jason ------- Re: 109 Lathe Bearing Size Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Sat Apr 5, 2014 1:57 pm ((PDT)) The spindle on my 109 was 0.551"/ Scott G. Henion, Stone Mountain, GA Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 Welding pages and homemade welder: http://shdesigns.org/Welding ------- Re: 109 Lathe Bearing Size Posted by: "Jonathan H Bateman" jhblagx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Apr 5, 2014 2:03 pm ((PDT)) Check the article (one of the two rebuild articles on the 109 site) which notes .550 as the original size. Do you have a new spindle? Usually necessary. If you expect to use the old one, mic it at several points and check for straightness. Perfect is close enough. This weakly built lathe cannot tolerate any looseness anywhere; one thou os is barely tolerable. I can lend you my primitive change-out tool n/c if needed. Don't use press without internal support......BLJHB ------- Re: 109 Lathe Bearing Size Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Sat Apr 5, 2014 2:31 pm ((PDT)) suggest an adjustable hand reamer ...ck enco, wt tool, victor machinery exchange, last price i remember was under #15 for a 1/2 inch +/- one .. nuts at top & bottom push blades on an incline larger & smaller....carbon steel is cheaper & just fine for hand reamimg ..even machine reamimg if CAREFUL ......these are also great for reamimg out shotgun chokes that are too tight ...now at 82, i cud stand having some of that choke BACK. you WILL need clearane....shud be able to keep your hand on headstock comfortably after bearing warms up ...i wud not want more than one thou clearance on my one in spindle crftsmn 6x18 ......my guess is 1/2 thou & w/ adjustable reamer if it runs hot, open some more. best wishes doc FWIW ...handbooks give running clearances for various shafts AND various classes from watches on down ...no need to buy a new one anything later than 1925. shud be fine & also easier to use ......back when a machinist was lucky to have had an 8th grade education. ------- Re: 109 Lathe Bearing Size Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.net Date: Sun Apr 6, 2014 5:19 am ((PDT)) I think you have the process backwards. Turn the outside, press in place and then ream the ID. The tighter the press fit, the smaller the ID becomes. Maybe this does NOT apply to your situation, but in my experience playing with single thou clearances and bushings pressed in tightly in non-lathe applications the ID sizing the ID is the final step. Go along with what those that have already done what you are talking about, but maybe they missed your sequencing if it is incorrect. Good luck, L.H. in Arkansas US ------- Re: 109 Lathe Bearing Size Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Sun Apr 6, 2014 9:26 pm ((PDT)) YES..tnx ..good point ..... i shud have mentioned that ...i wud expect the bushing will need to be reamed to size after insertion ...they almost always are undersized after insertion. doc ------- Re: 109 Lathe Bearing Size Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Sun Apr 6, 2014 9:56 am ((PDT)) Jason, I agree with LH. If you are going to ream or line bore the bushings to fit the spindle, the proper way to do it is to fit the bushings to the spindle first. And then ream them in place. Also, the best way in which to hold the bushings to reduce the OD is with an expanding mandrel or an expanding 5C "collet". Fortunately, there are relatively cheap Chinese made examples of both routinely for sale. Robert D. ------- Re: 109 Lathe Bearing Size Posted by: "Jay Greer" redwitch1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Sun Apr 6, 2014 11:07 am ((PDT)) HI Jason, I am assuming you are speaking of the counter shaft and its cone stepped pulley. I just finished overhauling my own as the shaft was shot and so were the bearings. I used the same Oilite bearings you mention and used a press to put them in. I made up a new shaft to replace the one that was worn beyond redemption. The material was .5" dis ground and polished steel stock that required milling two flats for the driving pulley's setting cap screws to lock against. I ran a long reamer, .550" through and between the two bearings in order to insure alignment of the bore. There are holes drilled on the top surface of the bearing housing on my counter shaft yoke that were not bored through the old bearings. Even though I used Oilite bushings on the yoke, I drilled them through to allow better lubrication of the shaft. It may be overkill but it works very well. I replaced the old drive belt with a 3/8" segmented belt by Fenner Drives. It runs quieter than the old one did. Best Chips, Jay Greer ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a conversation about making inside 1" x 10 threads for chucks or backplates that appeared in the atlas_craftsman group. See the message titled "tap for the 1 x 10 tpi [atlas_craftsman]" Date: Mon Apr 21, 2014 in the file here "Threading (Lathe and Otherwise)". ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a conversation about replacement gears for the Atlas/Craftsman 6 inch lathes that has been saved here in the file named "Gears General". See there the starting message "stripped nylon gears" Apr 28, 2014. ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following message was incorrectly titled with its original conversation title about a toolholder for a 618 size lathe. The conversation here is now about making a steady rest. To see the rest of the original conversation in August 2014 about making a toolholder, open the text file on my site called Toolholders For Lathe. ------- [Homebuilt Atlas 618 steadyrest] Re: Adapted 4-way 618 Toolblock [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Gary Bauer" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:31 pm ((PDT)) Hello Eric, Here are a few more pictures of my homebuilt Atlas 618 steadyrest. I installed the 3 finger tip bearings (1/4" steel rivets) for the last photo. They will be replaced with brass ones when I can locate or machine some. The rivet bearings are retained by a dab of grease in the finger tips. There is no drawing of this project as I just made it to fit from scratch. The frame is 3/8" thick steel. The guide and mounting blocks are from 1/2" thick steel. Beefy is better !!! Gary in AZ https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas618lathe/attachments/780732539 Atlas 618 Steadyrest added 003.jpg Atlas 618 Steadyrest added 001.jpg Atlas 618 Steadyrest added 002.jpg ------- Homebuilt Atlas 618 steadyrest Posted by: n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com n1ltv Date: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:35 pm ((PDT)) Gary, Thanks for doing the additional photography lately by popular demand. :) Your mentioned your nephew Dan did the welding for this project. Do you happen to know, or could you please ask what kind of rig he used? Hank ------- Re: Homebuilt Atlas 618 steadyrest Posted by: "Gary Bauer" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:43 pm ((PDT)) Hello Hank, the welder we used was a MIG w/ CO2 and .032" wire. The wire was a bit small for the thickness but my nephew Dan made it work OK. My welding skill has declined over the years. Welding heat slightly distorted those 1/2" unf-threaded rod connectors even though they were the thick types. So I re-tapped them as well as re-chased the threaded rod fingers for a smooth operation. A large amount of the shaping work on the thick metal was done with my HF chop-saw to include hand carving parts with sparks flying all over. Fun !! Gary in AZ ------- Gitz oil cups rermoval [atlas618lathe] Posted by: chad.sharronx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:43 am ((PDT)) Hello, I am in the process of stripping my newly acquired 618 down to get ready for paint. Does anyone know if the "gitz" oil cups are threaded or pressed into the headstock casting? ------- Re: Gitz oil cups rermoval Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:38 am ((PDT)) Pressed. Robert Downs - Houston ------- Belt Size and Source [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Dave Leddon" davex~xxleddon.net dave_leddon Date: Thu Nov 6, 2014 11:27 am ((PST)) I have an Atlas Craftsman model 101.21200 for which I would like to buy a spare belt. The belt measures: Width 0.25 Height 0.2 Circle 28.5 McMaster doesn't seem to stock a belt that would match these dimensions so I'm looking for alternative sources, other than Sears, of course. Thanks, Dave ------- Re: Belt Size and Source Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com db45acp Date: Thu Nov 6, 2014 12:15 pm ((PST)) Dave, I also have a MK2 and I use a Gates 7261. It is 1/4" x 26-1/2". Metric would be 6mm x 665mm. If you have a standard setup for the lathe, there should be enough adjustment for it to work. It is a common belt for automotive use so auto parts stores should have them. Lat time I bought a couple 7 or 8 years ago they were less than $8.00 each.First one still running with moderate use looks like new. Spare still in the drawer with all those numbers, above. Good luck, Dan in Nevada ------- Added way wipers to my lathe [atlas618lathe] Posted by: ksierensx~xxmsn.com ksierens Date: Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:00 pm ((PST)) I finished adding some way wipers to my lathe last week, so I thought I would post some pictures in case someone else might want to do the same. I attached some pictures of the finished wipers, but there are more pictures in my "Kurt's Toys" photo album. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas618lathe/attachments/1625046094 I did not create any video, just the pictures I took, but if you need any other information let me know. ------- Re: Added way wipers to my lathe Posted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.com smellsofbikes Date: Mon Dec 1, 2014 10:34 am ((PST)) What's the material of the wipers themselves? When I've thought about doing this, I've been concerned that the wipers will get hard chunks embedded in them and then end up turning into scrapers. Do people have ideas about whether this is a valid concern or not? ------- Re: Added way wipers to my lathe Posted by: ksierensx~xxmsn.com ksierens Date: Mon Dec 1, 2014 11:16 am ((PST)) I used felt, but just picked some up from Lowe's used for furniture pads. Lathes have been using felt for wipers for years, so I do not expect there to be too much of a problem, and I will make sure they are well oiled before use. Someone else suggested adding neoprene wipers on the outside, but I chose to make them the same way they have been made for many years, but I will let you know if I run into any problems. Kurt ------- Re: Added way wipers to my lathe Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Mon Dec 1, 2014 4:41 pm ((PST)) Actually, the felts are more properly called "oilers". The original 10" and 12" assemblies that these were patterned after consist of three (four counting the screw) pieces. Cover or holder, oiler and wiper. The oilers are (and I'm talking about the slightly larger 12" ones now) are stamped from felt sheet that is approximately 0.22 inches thick. It is fairly dense. You can squeeze it with the calipers down to just under 3/16". The wipers are made from 1/16" thick rubber sheet (prbably neoprene). Their purpose is two-fold. One is to wipe up the oil left on the ways, increasing the time between having to add oil. The other is to prevent the potential problem of fines and chips getting buried in the felt. Kurt, I think you could make four more oilers out of slightly thinner felt and fit the wipers in there without having to make the covers again. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- autofeed [atlas618lathe] Posted by: jcfreed_1999x~xxyahoo.com jcfreed_1999 Date: Sat Dec 6, 2014 2:57 pm ((PST)) Can someone help me. The split nut doesn't seem worn nor does the feed screw. Still the split nut does not clamp thightly on the feed screw. I see no adjustments that can be made. ------- Re: autofeed Posted by: "Phil Pappano" papp101x~xxgmail.com papp102 Date: Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:01 pm ((PST)) Can you add a few pictures? ------- Re: autofeed Posted by: jster11x~xxhotmail.com jster1963 Date: Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:13 pm ((PST)) I'm no expert, but I just adjusted my brother's Atlas 618 for the same thing. There is an adjustment screw under the carriage. It is a small flat head screw that controls tension on a spring and ball. All you have to do is look under the carriage, right under the half nut, for the screw. It's a small screw. I used a large jeweler's screwdriver. You may have to tighten or loosen. Just play with it. Good luck jster ------- Re: autofeed Posted by: jcfreed_1999x~xxyahoo.com jcfreed_1999 Date: Sun Dec 7, 2014 10:15 am ((PST)) That screw adjusts the detent tension not the tightness around the feed rod. I'll try to get pictures it is not easy to see once assembled. ------- Re: autofeed Posted by: "Brian Youngberg" youngberg.brianx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Dec 7, 2014 4:38 pm ((PST)) Is your split-nut clean? I had the same problem awhile back and found that crud had built up in the threads of the half nuts. The build-up prevented proper engagement with the lead screw. BRY ------- Where is this spindle setscrew located? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: curtis.normanx~xxcomcast.net crackerfactory03 Date: Mon Jan 5, 2015 5:32 pm ((PST)) Hello guys; I am presently disassembling the headstock on my Atlas 618 to clean and repaint it. I haven't done this before, and I am presently at the point where I have the back gears off, the spindle collar, spindle gear and spindle spacer (parts 118, 133 and 134) off the lathe. My problem is that the instructions that I found here in the file section for taking the spindle out of the headstock say to loosen 3 setscrew. These three are the one in the spindle collar, the spindle spacer (parts 118 and 120) and there is one more; Where is it? I am guessing that it is the one labelled as part 186 in the parts drawings of the instruction manual, but the instruction manual isn't clear as to where it fits in the spindle assembly and I can't find it on my spindle assembly. The instructions in the file section show this setscrew inserted at an angle into what looks like the bull gear? I do not see any setscrew at the front of the bull gear. Is it in the spindle itself? Help! I do not want to try to get the spindle out without first removing everything that might be in the way to damage it. Any help in locating it would be appreciated. Regards, Curtis ------- Re: Where is this spindle setscrew located? Posted by: zoyagenax~xxyahoo.com gennady_123 Date: Tue Jan 6, 2015 2:10 pm ((PST)) Curtis, Three set screw the removal instructions are referring to are: the first in the spindle leftmost collar, the second on the left hub of spindle pulley, the third is in the hub of bull gear. Also there is a fourth one, at the bottom of the the third spindle pulley (counting in diameter decreasing order, e.g. from the bigger one to the left) that is not set screw in the sense, just serving as a cover for oiling hole when you use back gears. It should be loose, but previous owner might have tighten it, so just loosen it. To the best of my knowledge, these are all set screws in the spindle. Please ask again if I missed something or if it does not work. Best regards, Gennady [and in a later message from Gennady] What I called "the left hub of spindle pulley" in the previous message, may be the separate collar on immediate left of spindle pulley. Sorry for potential error. ------- Re: Where is this spindle setscrew located? Posted by: n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com n1ltv Date: Tue Jan 6, 2015 2:33 pm ((PST)) Curtis, the third setscrew you're looking for is located in the bull gear (front backgear). Just like the pin detent setscrew, the hole is positioned with half of its diameter in the teeth of the bull gear, and half on that narrow smooth section immediately to the left of the teeth. It's 180 degrees away from the pin detent setscrew, and recessed deeply in order to reach the woodruff key that locks the bull gear to the spindle. Hank ------- Re: Where is this spindle setscrew located? Posted by: curtis.normanx~xxcomcast.net crackerfactory03 Date: Tue Jan 6, 2015 3:10 pm ((PST)) Thanks Gennady, I found the set screw and thank you for your response to my question. Regards, Curtis ------- Re: Where is this spindle setscrew located? Posted by: curtis.normanx~xxcomcast.net crackerfactory03 Date: Tue Jan 6, 2015 3:18 pm ((PST)) Hank, thanks for your reply to my question. Yep, I found the set screw. Regards, Curtis ------- Re: Where is this spindle setscrew located? Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Tue Jan 6, 2015 8:16 pm ((PST)) One correction - the oil filler hole plug should be snug. That hole is not supposed to be tapped much deeper than the length of the screw. And if you leave it loose and it ever works its way free while the spindle is turning at high speed, the screw will depart the pulley at right angles to the spindle at high velocity. Plus it will sling oil after every lube session. However, although I don't recall anyone ever reporting the problem with a 6", there have been numerous reports of Atlas 10" or Craftsman early 12" where a previous owner had somehow managed to thread the hole all the way into the ID of the pulley, locking the pulley to the spindle. This will raise a burr on the spindle that will damage one of the pulley bushings if the spindle is ever removed. It will also further damage the spindle if you try to run the lathe in back gear. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- on the cost of new Clausing parts [atlas618lathe] Posted by: curtis.normanx~xxcomcast.net crackerfactory03 Date: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:30 pm ((PST)) Hi guys! Just thought I would share this bit of info with those of you thinking about contacting Clausing for new parts for the Atlas 618 lathe. Recently I had acquired an old 618 that needed some gears in better shape than what were with it and I got those from a couple of vendors on Ebay. Those look pretty good. Taking the lathe apart, I decided that it could use new bearings. So I (naively) called Clausing service for a price, but they were out and told me they would get back with the information (I would not commit to buying since I was leery and wanted to know the price). I figured I would not hear from them again, so armed with the correct Timken bearing stock numbers, I called the local bearing supply company and here was the breakdown of cost: Two bearing "cups" Timken # 07196 x~xx $7.11 each, total: $14.22 One "cage" # 07100: $16.39 One "cage" # 07079: $27.71 Grand total....$58.32, and I made the purchase. Now two weeks later here is the Clausing price that arrives via email: Front spindle bearing (the whole cup and cage unit): $96.60 Rear spindle bearing: $143.16 Total: $239.76 A $181.99 difference!!??? Needless to say, I was shocked and glad that I had just bought the bearings at the local supply house. Since the bearings I bought new are all in Timken branded boxes, I can't begin to understand how Clausing can justify a markup like that. Curtis ------- Re: on the cost of new Clausing parts Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:24 pm ((PST)) Curtis, Timken today makes tapered roller bearing in four classes (tolerances or precision) from considerably better than floor sweepings up to some that you would probably have to take out a second mortgage to buy. I've copied the chart below. The left column is Timken, the right is ABMA. As you can see, not all Timken bearings are equal. I've talked to Timken about this and confirmed that if you walk in to a supplier and just ask for the bearing by part number, you get Class C (box and bearing is unmarked for Class). I asked Clausing once about this but the person on the phone didn't understand what I was asking (it wasn't Jolene) so I didn't get any answer. However, in earlier years, Atlas did 100% receipt inspection in what was essentially a "test to quality" program. I assume that they are either still doing that or are paying extra for either Class B or Class A. What you bought were Class C. As a practical matter, few of us are good enough to tell the difference. But that's most of the reason for the price difference. Note that Timken no longer sells any bearings rated ABMA Class 4 or Class 2. Timken Standards (Alpha are Timken - Numeric are equivalent ABMA) >From lowest to highest precision Class (none) / 4 Class (none) / 2 Class C / 3 Class B / 0 Class A / 00 Class AA / 000 Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- [atlas618lathe] Does any one knows what is the pitch for the gears on the 618? Posted by: migueldeservantesysaavedrax~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:34 pm ((PST)) Someone made a comment that if one have a dividing table or indexer it was possible to make the gears for this lathe, so does anyone know off the top of their head what the pitch is! I have been looking for a long time for the gear making dies that are sold on Ebay and was wondering, and since I'm one of the one's that is interested in making a "Quickomatic quick gear change for this lathe, I was hoping to know if someone has that information. ------- Re: Does any one knows what is the pitch for the gears on the 618? Posted by: n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com n1ltv Date: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:26 pm ((PST)) Mark, The pitch for the 618 lathe gears is 24, with 14.5 degree pressure angle. Hank ------- Just purchased my very first lathe [atlas618lathe] Posted by: billmeister1969x~xxyahoo.com billmeister1969 Date: Sat May 9, 2015 5:50 pm ((PDT)) I just purchased an Atlas 618 with the Timken bearings. I've went through it briefly and it appears I have all of the needed gears, plus a couple of extras with busted teeth, not sure why the prior owner kept those. I have both the follower rest (looks absolutely new), a steady rest that looks used (but the brass shows no wear marks on it), the faceplate (with a couple of lathe dogs), and a 1/3 HP Baldor motor, and a few extra drill bits, taps, dies and assorted pieces. The original compound slide was broken (still in the "extras" box) and was replaced with a MK2 slide. It came with a 3 jaw 4" chuck but appears to be missing the key. If anyone has an extra key for sale, please send me an email with price, thank you. It was also missing the tailstock, but I just picked up one of those from Ebay. I still have the original MT1 tailstock tube that goes in the tailstock, but the tailstock housing and any of it's other parts were missing. I have a couple of questions as I try and gather additional tools and parts and start mounting this to a bench. 1. When I decide to get a 4 jaw chuck, should I go with the 4" or bump to a 5". I've found them at LittleMachineShop and Shars. I'll probably get one from either of them. Unless someone knows of a better source. I really like those companies, so I'd be hard pressed to waiver from them. I just don't know which chuck would be better for my situation. I'd like to go with the bigger 5", but can't find a reason to choose the 4" over the 5". If someone knows better, please let me know. 2. To start with, I'm planning on getting the tool set from Harbor Freight. It looks very close to the original lantern post toolset. It's Item # 3448, 30 Pc Mini Lathe Tool Kit. 3. Has anyone tried the Chinese ER collet sets on Ebay? They look like they'd work pretty well and they're fairly cheap. I'm planning on cutting my own collet holder. That'll be one of my first projects. 3. Does anyone have any experience with the "norman patent style" QCTP. That's another project I've looked at. Or should I just suck it up and look at the Tormach 0XA (wedge) QCTP from LittleMachineShop? 4. I'll try and get a picture or two uploaded after I've had a chance to dig in to it more. Time to start the cleaning. Thanks, Bill ------- Re: Just purchased my very first lathe Posted by: young.zachx~xxgmail.com young.zach Date: Sat May 9, 2015 7:32 pm ((PDT)) Congrats on the buy! Re #2: I have that set. The knurling and boring bar tool holders are too wide to fit in the standard toolpost for the 618 (at least the one I have (they require 1/2".) The rest fit, but you may need to shim them the get them to fit well. ------- Re: Just purchased my very first lathe Posted by: billmeister1969x~xxyahoo.com billmeister1969 Date: Sat May 9, 2015 7:54 pm ((PDT)) Thanks for the update. I had already assumed I wouldn't be able to use every piece in that 30 piece kit. But it's good to know that somebody else has experience with that kit. On a separate note, if someone has a 4 jaw independent chuck with the 1x10 tpi that they'd consider parting with, send me an email with the price and maybe a pic or two; I'd rather support the group first. Again, thanks. ------- Re: Just purchased my very first lathe Posted by: burkheimerx~xxverizon.net ar1911 Date: Sun May 10, 2015 5:53 am ((PDT)) Bill: Congrats on the new lathe. The older 618 is IMO the best of the Sears lathes. You did well to get the steady and follow rests. Probably a half dozen 618s have been through my shop, and none had either rest. 1- 4-jaw - My preference is to find a good OE chuck. I'd only buy an import if none turned up in a reasonable time. Until then you can do most everything with a 3-jaw. 2 - I'd skip the lantern stuff, unless you stumble across a decent OE set and just want to have them. I sold mine on ebay last month to get an OXA. Same money. 3a - The import ER sets are a good way to go. Maybe the ONLY way to get decent collet setup on a 618. 3b - Buy the OXA set, preferably the steel body, wedge variant (A2Z is alloy body). Welcome to the group, enjoy your new machine. Rex B Fort Worth TX ------- Re: Just purchased my very first lathe Posted by: "Robert Downs" wa5cabx~xxcomcast.net wa5cab Date: Sun May 10, 2015 1:23 pm ((PDT)) Bill. You can probably find a chuck key on eBay as they turn up fairly frequently. But pay close attention to whether the one you need is square or hex. Square is probably more common but chucks needing a hex T-handle key were made, too. And both were made in several different inch and metric sizes. So if you want to see whether or not someone here has an extra, you need to specify type and size. 1 - The 4” chuck is safer as you can’t run the jaws out far enough to hit the ways without running them too far out of the chuck body to safely use. However, if you can restrain yourself from running the jaws out far enough to hit the ways, you can at least operate it to the swing limit without exceeding the chuck limit. Just have to be careful not to try to exceed the swing limit. But in either case, I would prefer OE over Chinese. 2 – I wouldn’t. See 3a. 3 – I haven’t (I actually have a larger machine with the traditional draw type collets (3AT, 3C and 5C). But I agree with Rex that the ER is the better way to go with a 6”. They are slower to load and unload but finding the OEM draw collets will probably be both more difficult and more expensive. Plus with the front mounted ER you can go up to the spindle bore with passed-through work pieces. If you want to try to make the closer body, have at it. But you can buy the nut by itself from several sources pretty inexspensively. And it is far and away the more difficult to make. 3a – I would go with the 0XA wedge type and only with a steel tool post body. They don’t cost that much more than aluminum and will probably outlast you. If you do get a 0XA, buy several extra of the Turning and Facing and/or Turning, Facing and Boring holders (may be ID’d as 001 and 002, or #1 and #2). However, although changing over to it for a job will take extra time, the lantern tool post with boring bar adapters is stiffer than using the QCTP boring bar holder. Robert D. ------- Newbie in Kansas City Mo [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: gsegaragex~xxkc.rr.com hoopity2002 Date: Tue Sep 1, 2015 7:12 pm ((PDT)) Hello. Purchased a nice Atlas 618. Timken head stock. Looking for a compound and a steady rest, 4 jaw, etc... ------- Re: Newbie in Kansas City Mo Posted by: "Robert Downs" wa5cabx~xxcomcast.net wa5cab Date: Tue Sep 1, 2015 9:05 pm ((PDT)) Gsegarage, Every 618 ever made came with a Timken bearing equipped spindle. The rumour that some early 618’s had other than Timken bearings is a typical bit of Internet disinformation probably caused by people erroneously calling the Craftsman 101.07301 a “618”, which it is not. The 101.07301 just happens to also be a 6x18 lathe. I can understand your looking for a Steady Rest or a 4-jaw chuck as they were extra options but why do you need a Compound? All of the 618’s came with one and they aren’t known for frequent failures (unlike the ones on the early 10” and 9”). ------- Re: Newbie in Kansas City Mo Posted by: "Mac" MACMARSx~xxEMBARQMAIL.COM mack_mars Date: Wed Sep 2, 2015 8:59 am ((PDT)) Thats not true bob! I have 2-618's with babbit bearings.. mac ------- Re: Newbie in Kansas City Mo Posted by: "Robert Downs" wa5cabx~xxcomcast.net wa5cab Date: Wed Sep 2, 2015 10:44 am ((PDT)) Sorry, but no on two counts. Atlas didn’t build any 6” with babbit bearings. What they did build but only for Sears to sell was a 6x18 that Sears called 101.07300. This had bronze sleeve bearings (Oilite) and 3/4”-16 spindle nose threads. It was only sold for one year (1938). It was replaced by the 101.07301 made 1939 until 1957. This also has sleeve bearings but has 1”-8 spindle nose threads and about 90% of it (outside of the headstock differences) is the same as the then current 618. The Atlas badged 618 (model number) and 612 (model number) were first made in 1937 with 1”-10 spindle nose bearings and Timken tapered roller bearings. I’m not sure when they stopped making the 612 but with minor changes (three different countershaft assemblies, mostly) the 618 was made up through 1972. Production of the 101.07301 stopped in 1957 and Sears began selling the then current 618 but under the model number 101.21400. There is a noted tendency among owners of 6x18 metal lathes, even those not made by Atlas like the Dunlap AA machines, to call all of them “618’s”. 618 is an Atlas model number, taken from the swing and C-C distance. Applying it to any 6x18 machine is probably the source of the confusion. The other instance where Atlas did this was with the 918 Utility Lathe, which is rated 9x18. And not to be confused with the compound drive models 936 through 954, where the 2nd and 3rd digits refer to the bed length. Another possible source stems from parts swapping. The 618 and 101.07301 beds are generally interchangeable, like those of the 10” and 3/8” bed 12”. So if you have an Atlas built 6x18 with sleeve bearings and a 618 nameplate, the bed was probably swapped without removing the nameplate. Someone last year reported acquiring a babbit bearing 12x36 with a TH54 nameplate. ------- Re: Wanted atlas 612 lathe [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Wed Oct 7, 2015 9:53 am ((PDT)) Robert, In the beginning (1937) Atlas offered the Timken headstock 6" as both a 6x12 and a 6x18. At some point (not yet determined) they also offered them as armature lathes with model numbers 12A and 16A (not 18A for some strange reason). The 612 appears in catalogs from 1937 through Catalog # 41 (1941). It does not appear in Catalog L43 (1943 catalog year) or subsequent ones. So apparently very few were built/sold. Sears does not appear to have offered the 101.07301 in a 6x12 version. I have never had a bed to look at from any of the 6x18 versions so do not know whether or not it could be cut off to make a bed identical to that supplied with the 612. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: Wanted atlas 612 lathe Posted by: egpacex~xxhotmail.com egpace Date: Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:00 pm ((PDT)) Andy, Just out of curiousity, why the 612? Does it have to be Atlas, or will a Craftsman badged Atlas 612 do? Is it a matter of space in your shop or are you a collector of Atlas tools? Regards and best of luck, Ed Pace PS. All the parts I've made so far on my 618 I could have made on a 612. ------- Re: Wanted atlas 612 lathe Posted by: "Andy Kirkpatrick" tracrestore51x~xxyahoo.com tracrestore51 Date: Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:19 pm ((PDT)) Yes I am looking for the Atlas And not the Craftsman badged Dunlap I guess you could say that I am A collector Of Atlas machinery. But in this case I am looking for something small that I can use at my kitchen table. I use all my Atlas machines on a daily basis. I just appreciate Things built in America. ------- Re: Wanted atlas 612 lathe Posted by: "Hank Riley" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com n1ltv Date: Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:57 pm ((PDT)) > I use all my Atlas machines on a daily basis Andy, What are your other machines? The 612 should serve you well for that kind of space. Hank ------- Re: Wanted atlas 612 lathe Posted by: "Andy Kirkpatrick" tracrestore51x~xxyahoo.com tracrestore51 Date: Thu Oct 8, 2015 2:16 pm ((PDT)) I have 3 618s a 12x36 a Horizontal mill and drill press and shaper and band saw. And clausing 8520 that is near mint -- came out of a Prototype shop -- and currently looking for an atlas belt sander (I have the Craftsman version). But the 612 I can keep in the dining room when my wife is not home LOl! ------- Re: Wanted atlas 612 lathe Posted by: "Robert Downs" wa5cabx~xxcomcast.net wa5cab Date: Thu Oct 8, 2015 4:17 pm ((PDT)) Sears never sold an Atlas 612. During the few years that the 612 was being offered (1937-1941 or 42), Sears was selling the sleeve bearing 101.07301 (which Atlas didn’t sell so it has no Atlas model number). By the time (late 1957) that Sears began selling a Craftsman badged 618 (101.21400), the 612 had been out of production for 15 years. Robert D. ------- dumb question...handle removal...and update [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "markx~xxnoakes.com" markx~xxnoakes.com marknoakes Date: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:04 pm ((PST)) I completed the tail stock restoration. It looks reasonably good. I did go with black. Carriage handle removal Yes I did try to search the database and apparently didn't know what to search on. After removal of the M6-262 nut (fortunately without hurting it though it needs some clean up of edges), I cannot get the M6-61 handle off of the shaft. At the moment it's wrapped in plastic and soaking in Kroil. Is there any trick to this or should it just unscrew once the jam nut is backed off from it? I may try putting two jam nuts on the other end of the shaft, but don't want to damage anything. Thanks for any feedback, Mark N ------- Re: dumb question...handle removal...and update Posted by: egpacex~xxhotmail.com egpace Date: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:37 pm ((PST)) Mark, The handle slips on to the cross slide screw so it should pull right off (It's not threaded). Try gently tapping it from behind the handle toward you. It should come right off, especially after soaking it in Kroil. Please note that there is a woodruff key involved. Some come off easy, some don't. Good luck, Ed Pace ------- Re: dumb question...handle removal...and update Posted by: "markx~xxnoakes.com" markx~xxnoakes.com marknoakes Date: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:01 pm ((PST)) I kept looking at the assembly drawing and the woodruff key and thought surely they didn't put a key in a threaded portion of the shaft, but yes they did and it did come off...prying and tapping with a plastic mallet. Still having trouble getting the rest of it apart but it's coming slowly. Thanks, Mark N ------- Re: dumb question...handle removal...and update Posted by: n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com n1ltv Date: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:05 pm ((PST)) [posted for Robert by moderator] The reason that the feed screw is threaded through the crank is that the jam nut with which you adjust the lead screw end float to near zero has to screw on past the key slot. Robert D. ------- Re: Atlas 6-inch Mk. 2 lathe restoration start [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Wed Dec 2, 2015 1:39 pm ((PST)) In a message dated 12/02/2015, atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com writes: > Here is the diagram, I'm also trying to figure out if the gear is > threaded on. It looks like it not threaded by the diagram. Thanks, Jacob The gear is not threaded. I don't recall Atlas ever using a gear that was. I've never owned or worked on an Atlas 6" but from the various parts lists, I can tell that how you get the parts off of the left end of the spindle depends upon what model lathe you have. All have two external snap rings (circlips) that you remove, along with the Direct Drive Coupler and a Woodruff key. Don't lose the ball and spring inside the Coupler. Then it appears that you slide off the cone pulley. If you have the ball bearing 3950 (or Craftsman 101.21200), there is an unthreaded collar held in place by a #10 Set Screw to remove. If you have a Timken bearing 10100 or 10200, the collar is threaded, and locked with a set screw. After loosening the set screw, you would unscrew and remove the collar (it is how you preload the spindle bearings). After that, the spindle gear should slide off, followed by removing a second Woodruff key. Robert & Susan Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------