------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ This file is primarily concerned with finding, choosing and installing appropriate belts and pulleys on Atlas machines, but there is lots of good information that might be adapted for other machine brands. Besides information in these files (which include input from several metalworking groups) you should join the Yahoo groups relevant to your particular machine in order to look at photos of original and modified drive systems. If you have the time, check out groups which have similar machines of a different brand. Somewhere, someone has already devised an ingenious modification or home-made setup that you can copy or adapt to help solve your particular problem. Spelling -- most folks here show the plural as "pulleys" but "pullies" is also a correct spelling. If you search the web for one spelling, you will get different sites in your search results from another search using the other spelling. Do both for the most complete search results. There is some more information on pulleys mixed with motor conversations in the "Atlas Motors and Switches" file. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2015 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== From: Edwin P. Ziarko Date: Wed Mar 1, 2000 7:37am Subject: Re: narrow belts for M6 lathe "vincent kurpan" vince-x~xxpcez.com wrote: >> Where the heck dfo you get the proper width belts for the 6" lathe. I am currently using 3/8" (3L series) belts which are too wide. I have looked in Granger and McMaster-Carr and not even they carry them. I am about ready to try and make up some round leather belts from 5/16" stock. I did not see belts listed in the Clausing spare parts or teh Blue Ridge web site, etc.. so I'm not sure where to look. Vince. << Vince, I recently replaced the belts on my 6" Atlas (101.21400) with a 3L210 (motor to countershaft) and a 3L360 (countershaft to headstock pulley) from Grainger. Both seem to work fine with no noticeable overhang. My lathe dates back to the early 60's with the original pulleys. Can't imagine why the 3/8" belts don't fit. Ed Ziarko ------- Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:07:47 -0000 From: m.beckerx~xxmindspring.com Subject: Re: My new lathe Boy, am I ever glad I had the book on how to do that! Definitely wait and use the instructions unless you are good at Rubiks cube type stuff. I just spent 9 monthes totally disassembling my 12 x 36 and the Atlas/Clausing site mentioned by other post here was great help as well as the books I've accumulated with this lathe(Sears exploded view/Atlas manual). Good luck, and I used auto belts on mine and they work nice. Manual emphasizes running belts a bit loose as 'V' belts can run that way. Bushings on drive/counter shafts will like that! alan in ga. ------- Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 07:13:18 -0400 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: My new lathe At 10:57 PM 8/23/00 +0000, you wrote: >Hello. I don't mean to sound stupid, but I need to replace my belt on >the TH48 lathe that I just bought saturday and I can't figure out how >to remove the key under the large backgear so I can slide the spindle >out. The key hits the bearing cover on the right and I can't seem to >slide things to the left either. I'm trying to go easy as to not >damage anything but my big hammer is looking tempting. Help! I >ordered a manual from Clausing on Monday but it hasn't arrived yet. >Also--should I order the belt from Clausing or can I match up a belt >at the local auto parts store? Thanks, Rick That key is the most troublesome part to get out,an extra 1/4" would have been helpful. The key is a half-moon shape. I get the bull gear as far back as possible, then use a screwdriver at the face of the gear to gently rotate the key in its' slot. Then I use a long shank thin blade screwdriver to pry up the other end of the key. I repeat this until it is loose enough to pull out with a pair of needle nose pliers. To get it back in I put the key in and tap the end toward the gear down slightly (forming a slight ramp). This gives a little bit of play when you first try to engage the key. As the gear is slid the rest of the way on, the key will rotate into position. Ron Thibault North Augusta, SC USA Builder Miinie #2 Captain R/C Combat Ship USS Arizona http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/ ------- Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:42:51 -0000 From: "William Thanel" Subject: Atlas mill countershaft pulley machining Techniques I am currently restoring my Atlas horizontal milling machine, a project spanning more than 5 years. One problem I have a had again and again with Atlas machines is the Zamak pulleys. The material is butter soft to begin with then when shipped with poor packing practices they tend to get bent and or broken. These pulleys tend to be expensive when purchased from Clausing and in the case of the Atlas milling machine just plain old impossible to find. As a beginner in the HSMing world I would like to know the best techniques for machining the v groove for the pulley. I will be using my Atlas 6 inch lathe to machine the pulleys. The material will most likely be 6061 T6 Aluminum. I have the original Atlas dwg so the pulley dimensions are not a problem. Any tips or reference material would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill T. ------- Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 19:13:55 -0700 From: "Wally Skyrman" Subject: Atlas mill countershaft pulley machining Techniques > As a beginner in the HSMing world I would like to know thebest > techniques for machining the v groove for the pulley. I willbe using > my Atlas 6 inch lathe to machine the pulleys. The materialwill most > likely be 6061 T6 Aluminum. I have the original Atlas dwg sothe > pulley dimensions are not a problem. Any tips or referencematerial > would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill T. Hi Bill I would invest in a solid tapered mandrel to mount the pulley blank on and maybe a matching reamer. This way you will be sure to get the groves concentric with the shaft hole. A big plus is that you can try your work and if you need to turn the groves some more you can and still repeat your setup easily since you will be turning between centers. Getting multiply step pulleys to match one another is not as simple as it may first seem. Since you have the drawing you are further along then I have ever been in that situation. Wally Skyrman Central Point, Oregon ------- Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:59:48 -0500 From: "Keese, Frank" Subject: Atlas 10" jumping out of back gear I'm a fairly new Atlas 10" lathe owner, and I had not used my back gear until this past weekend. When I tried to use it, the engagement lever would just flip back to the disengaged position after a few seconds running. I finally did what I wanted to do by wiring the lever forward and it worked ok, but I 'd like to correct what's wrong that causes it to happen. In the first place, it appears to me the shaft rotation is in the direction that would tend to throw the lever backwards, out of engagement, and I'm not entirely certain what is supposed to keep it engaged. If gravity, i.e. the weight of the handle, especially the ball on the end, is supposed to do it, I may already have the solution. There has always been what seems excessive vibration--I have no other lathe experience or standard for comparison--and I have lived with it, but with the lever flipping over I decided to look for the source. So far I've found a bent motor sheave with mangled bore, which I replaced, and a bad bearing on the big sheave end of the countershaft that I have yet to replace, but will. I'm also suspicious of the shaft itself, but I haven't got the big sheave off yet to take it apart to inspect. I don't think the sheave is original Atlas. It's a disk type, not spoked. It has some kind of a keyless bushing hub with a nut on it bigger than my biggest wrench. I'll have to borrow a big adjustable from the maintenance shop at work to remove it, then we'll see. In any case, can the more experienced users in the group comment on whether vibration alone would do it, or does there seem to be more amiss? Replies appreciated. Frank Keese ------- Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:43:46 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bowen Subject: Re: Atlas 10" jumping out of back gear That sounds like you are missing the spring and detent under the back gear lever. I had the same problem with my 6" lathe. Take the handle off the back gear and you shoud find a small steel ball and spring under it. Robert ------- Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 18:25:39 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Atlas 10" jumping out of back gear I'd like to correct what's wrong that causes it to happen. Yes, I've seen this, especially on the 10", which has nothing but friction to keep it in gear. There are shims under the brackets that hold the bar that the backgear spins on. If these are not set right, the proper gear engagement does not occur at the correct rotation of the eccentric shaft. I think you want to install a few more shims, but you should look at the mechanism closely to see how the gears engage and the eccentric rotates. Anyway, you can try adjusting the amount of shims under the brackets until the problem disappears. I replaced my Babbit bearing headstock with a Timken bearing type years ago, and had to tinker with this adjustment until the backgear held in gear. Jon ------- Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:28:53 -0500 From: David Beierl Subject: Pulleys What do people think of my chances of making a cross-shaft drive pulley (the one driven from the motor pulley) for my 618 from Corian? Maybe with a steel or brass center? I just happen to have a big chunk of 3/4" Corian that will do nicely for thickness if I epoxy two pieces together...(I'm going to make one for practice anyway, since the stuff works so easily, but do you suppose it will actually hold up in operation? thanks, David Beierl ------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:18:13 -0500 From: Adam Subject: Re: Pulleys I would figure that a double pulley carved from Corian would work fairly well, at least if the epoxy parting line is in between the two diameters of pulley you shouldnt have any sudden catastrophic failures. I have no idea what the abrasion resistance or other predictors of durability are with this material, but as the original is after all a potmetal Mazak die casting, you would have to go pretty far to find something softer to use. One area of vulnerability might be the setscrew threads in the bore, but you might sleeve the bore with brass or aluminum shim stock and fit a carefully sized collar outside the bore boss so the set screw threads bear into some metal instead of only in the plastic. I am made very curious by your idea, I hope you try it and let us all know how it all works out. Adam ------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 07:49:10 +0100 From: Jean-Claude Gerber Subject: Re: Pulleys Hello David It is an idea to use Corian but I do not think that it will withstand the abrasion with the time. I have no idea why you want to turn Corian. As it can be filed and worked like wood, that´s probably the idea. Why do not you use aluminium. I have made quite a number of pulleys with it, from 4 to 10 inches and it works very nicely on all the lathes I am using them on. It is also easy to turn but its mechanical resistance is not so far from a mild steel (depends about the aluminium alloy you use). Jean-Claude ------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 09:58:27 -0800 From: "Emil" Subject: Re: Pulleys David, I've wondered about using Corian, too, and look foward to your report. However, I'm not sure that any epoxy will adequately bond the two pieces of Corian. I tried using epoxy to bond two small pieces of Corian and it didn't hold as I expected. I'd suggest stopping by your local Corian dealer and asking for a partially used tube of the bonding agent that they use. You don't want to buy a whole/new tube of the stuff as it's fiercely expensive. On a related note, Corian makes great bench tops. My dealer lets me salvage scrap from his junk bin when he's ready to clean out his shop. I made a really nice base/bench top (22" X 27" over similar size 3/4" plywood) for my Atlas milling machine. Good luck, Emil ------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 09:46:00 -0500 From: "Hughes, Skip" Subject: RE: Pulleys I don't understand why you would want to epoxy it together in the first place. Are you worried about how it would look if you used machine screws in treaded holes? What about a combination of the two? The mechanical fasteners would act as shear pins for the epoxy joint. Space them at the third points of the circle and put them in before you machine the pulley grooves and there should be no balance problem. My two cents, for what they're worth these days. Skip, in Snowy Boston. ------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 09:34:33 -0600 From: Nick Hull Subject: Re: Pulleys I have a pair of 4-step pulleys on my milling machine that are made of WOOD and have been working for years. It's a small mill, 1/4 hp motor, and comparable to a 6x18 lathe. ------- Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:38:13 EST From: Gt6stevex~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Drive Belts... link belt? I've got it on an Atlas and a Clausing primarily to avoid splitting the headstock. It is a bit noisier than a V-belt but works fine. Pay attention to how you put it on as it is noisier in reverse than forward. Steve ------- Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 18:13:25 -0400 From: David Beierl Subject: Powertwist belt direction Just got info from people who have belts with directional arrows on them -- the tongues of the segments should be trailing. David Beierl - dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net ------- Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 22:06:21 EDT From: LADDERBARx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Countershaft Spindle two steps big pulley warped What I did on mine was buy 2 separate pulleys from Grizzly, machined them two the proper spacing and have been using them for the past 3 years like this. No problems and very cheap. Happy chip making Mike ------- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:19:36 -0400 From: "David Lafromboise" Subject: Re: Dave ...Re: First question for group. Model 101.21400 6" From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: [atlas_craftsman] First question for group. Model 101.21400 6" >>> Hello all. This weekend I was able to get my newly aquired 6" lathe >>> mounted to a table. My question is the backgear assembly. Sorry if I >>> am a majior newbee here but is the backgear to be engaged at all >>> times? I noticed that the spindel pully has a set screw that was >>> loose I tightened it and realized that when it is tight you cannot >>> ingage the back gear because it will work against itself. Should this >>> set screw be loose and the spindle pulley be free to float a bit? the >>> back gears when engaged seem to make a lot of racket. Is this normal >>> for this lathe? Thanks Cliff "David Lafromboise" wrote: > > Cliff, Don't run backgear unless turning heavy stock. The spindle pulley set screw, leave loose, put oil in it first the put set screw in. To engage backgear pull the pin on the bull gear(one closest to chuck) the pin has a detent to hold it in place. You need some of the fine lube I have to quiet those gears down. Its a special open gear lube in a spray (works awesome). I plan on getting together a maintenance kit for us lathe owners which will include full dog set screws, nuts,lube. Look for it on ebay soon, Dave < < From: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 > Dave I just posted but got cut off so if you are reading this twice > sorry. Thanks for replying to my message. Ok so if I undersdand you > right I will not use the backgears engaged unless I am turning stock > of a heavy nature for torque. I loosened up the screw and put oil in > the setscrew hole. If I dont tighten the setscrew the pulley will > spin free on the spindle and the chuck will not spin. By tighting the > screw it lockes the pulley to the spindle and the chuck spins much > faster as it is getting its power directly from the pulley set. This > is the correct way to use the lathe for all basic turning jobs? > Thanks again Cliff Tighten set screw and then back it of 1 turn so it wont fall out. The set screw does not drive the chuck! The gears do (bullgear and pully gear) in combination with the pin on the bull gear. When you push the pin all the way in the bull gear it will engage the pulley and the belt will drive the pulley thus drive the bull gear which is keyed to the headstock shaft. When the back gear is engaged the pin is out and you are rotating much slower because your driving from the other end(small head stock gear) through the back gears to the bull gear. The power is kinda traveling in a circle, got it? Oil the countershaft pulley the same way as headstock pulley but tighten those 2 set screws tight. ------- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:02:32 -0400 From: David Beierl Subject: Re: Dave ...Re: First question for group. Model 101.21400 6" At 07:14 PM 6/12/2001, flagstaff11010x~xxyahoo.com wrote: >Dave I just posted but got cut off so if you are reading this twice >sorry. Thanks for replying to my message. Ok so if I understand you >right I will not use the backgears engaged unless I am turning stock >of a heavy nature for torque. Right. > I loosened up the screw and put oil in the setscrew hole. Right. That's what it's for -- if you're talking about the little setscrew in the bottom of the second sheave on the spindle. > If I dont tighten the setscrew the pulley will >spin free on the spindle and the chuck will not spin. By tighting the >screw it lockes the pulley to the spindle and the chuck spins much >faster as it is getting its power directly from the pulley set. DON'T DO IT. That setscrew is *only* for keeping the oil in, only insert it so it's a bit below flush. Look on the right-hand face of the bull gear (the big gear on the right side of the spindle). Rotate the bull gear one full revolution and somewhere you should see a sliding pin extending from the side of the bull gear*. That pin needs to be shoved in to one of four holes in the spindle pulley to lock the bull gear and spindle pulley together. One of the holes is in line with the little oiling setscrew. Once the pin is inserted, the lathe is set to work in direct drive, and engaging the back gear will lock the spindle. Make sense? *At the same time, look at the right-front corner of the headstock casting. There should be a small pin there which can extend to the left and engage with one of 60 holes in the side of the bull gear, to index it at six-degree intervals. Make sure that pin is nowhere near the bull gear... david >This is the correct way to use the lathe for all basic turning jobs? >Thanks again Cliff David Beierl - Providence, RI USA 6" Atlas lathe ca. 1941 ------- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:04:20 -0700 From: S1 Subject: Re: Hello and about me. Link belt is really nice. However, it RARELY comes in the size of the 109 drivebelt. 90% of all link belt out there replaces "4L" or "A" belts and larger. The 109 came with a "3L" belt, and there is a big difference. "3L" belt is has top that is 3/8" wide and is roughly 5/16" at the bottom width. "4L" or "A" belt is 1/2" wide on top and just over 3/8" wide on the bottom. They are not interchangeable. So when you buy Linkbelt for a 109 make certain it specifies that it replaces "3L" drivebelts. Grainger Industrial sells Linkbelt that will work on a 109, but you have to buy 25 ft of it at $113.69. You cannot buy a shorter length of it. As far as the Tailstock goes, I've seen them on Ebay every now and then. If you can't buy a new one, check E-bay everyday and one might pop up. I saw on there a little while ago when somebody was parting out a 109. Gabe ------- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:25:17 -0000 From: doogdoogx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Hello and about me. Aloha, you can get the 3L link belt from www.mcmaster.com. Type in link belt using their search engine and it will take you to the link belt page. They have two different 3L belts that is adjustable. The first one is the twist lock which you just twist and lock and the adjust a link which uses a rivit and requires and installation tool. Mahalo, Howard ------- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:04:33 -0000 From: rweersingx~xxworldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Hello and about me. You can get 3/8" power twist link belts from Grizzly for $19.95 per 4 foot section. http://www.grizzly.com/fcgi-bin/lookup.fcgi/products/lookup.cfg good luck Bob ------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:37:10 EDT From: sleykinx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Motor Pulley for 1950's 12 inch Craftsman 08/23/2001, mkcentx~xxswbell.net writes: > I think this is a good time for this question. > I need to make a 2 step pulley similar to the > atlas motor pulley. Does anyone have a step by > step procedure for making a pulley. Please include > shape of bit/bits used, order of cuts and angles, > ect. Do you use a slot cutter to start? We're > talking newbe machinist here. I'll be making a > 2" and 3" dia. pulley but make this generic so > it can be applied to any diameter. Thanks in advance. > Skip Campbell Ft. Worth, TEXAS Craftsman 12X36 101.28990 underdrive I have made a couple of them. The first thing you need to know is that the dimensions of the sheaves varies with the diameter of the pulley for the same size belt. Machinerys handbook has a good section on that. The way I made mine was to get the angle from the book for the sides and ground a tool that fit the angle. I made it more narrow than the groove so I could "walk" my way down to final depth and then clean the sides to final width and angle. I roughed out a block of aluminum on the band saw and drilled a hole the size of the shaft and cut the keyway. I then mounted a round bar with a keyway in the lathe and threaded the end so I could clamp the blank. I cut the keyway in the shaft while it was still oversize and then turned it down to size and threaded it on the lathe. One point to keep in mind is that the groove needs to be deep enough so the belt can wear some and still not bottom in the groove. I use linkbelt on my lathe so I had a short piece to check dimensions with as I cut. You are going to make a BIG pile of chips :) Enjoy, Glenn ------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:05:46 -0000 From: STYSx~xxMINDSPRING.COM Subject: Re: Motor Pulley for 1950's 12 inch Craftsman Skip, I made a motor pulley last year, and it was very easy. I started with an aluminum bar end from my local salvage yard. Frank had asked how to make one. I used the search function that the group site provides, and found my old posting. I have copied and pasted it in this new posting. It will tell you angles and sizes. It looks like other group members can tell you the steps. Here is the old posting: <> I hope this information helps. Rick Stys in Apex, NC ------- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:18:59 -0400 From: James Meyer Subject: Power Twist drive belt OK. I got my Power Twist belt in the mail today. The installation instructions say that the belt has a preferred direction to go on. There's supposed to be a series of arrows printed on the belt to show which way it's supposed to run. On my belt the arrows are printed in the spaces between the links. I really can't see them well enough to figure out which way they're pointing. It looks like if I hold the belt so that the other things that are printed on it are readable, not upside down, that the arrows are pointing to the left. But I'm not 100% sure. Can somebody look at another belt and double check the arrow's direction? My belt is the 3/8ths inch, 3L, size. Jim ------- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 06:36:01 -0000 From: rweersingx~xxworldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Power Twist drive belt Hello James: Since the arrows that are on some of the links wear off quickly, you put the belt on with the tabs on the inside pointing away from the direction of belt travel. direction of belt travel <- Tabs on the inside of belt__/__/__/__/__/__/__/__ Hope that helps Bob ------- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:04:28 -0700 From: S1 Subject: Motor Pulley I am currently making a pulley for one of my lathes because the drive system needed a complete overhaul. I am making a 2 stepped pulley where one pulley is 3" diameter and the other step is 6" diameter. The bore on the pulley is 1.645" . No "off the shelf" pulley can be modified to work in this situation. I have a HF 7X10 that the DC drive is to weak to turn the materials I want to turn on it. I already killed three plastic drive pulleys, one motor, and one DC speed controller. I am fed up with the OEM drive system breaking on this machine. So I designed a pulley system that gives me a good RPM range and standard drive belts. The machine's castings are solid, rigid and of good quality so the foundation of the machine is solid, so this is the only reason I keep it alive. It isn't complete junk, and replacing the predominately plastic drive system will yield me a reliable piece of equipment. This post will help with the machining of my pulley (on a much more respectable South Bend "Heavy 10"). Gabe ------- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 04:24:49 -0400 From: "Matthew King" Subject: Re: Motor Pulley Browning doesn't have a sheave/hub combination that'll work? That borders on infathomable! (or something like that!) Check with a local power transmission shop - I bet they can set you right up with your stepped sheave (or two stackable singles) and an insertable taper lock hub that will save you EONS of time and work perfectly. Worst case is you get a 1 5/8 bore hub and bore it to the 1.645. That's an unusual bore size - why the odd shaft size? Good luck with your project! Matt King ------- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:05:30 -0700 From: Chris Difani Subject: Re: belt slipping From: "robert B" > My atlas 12x36 pulley belt is slipping. > It's the one that is driven from the motor shaft.I replaced it > with a new one which slips almost as badly. Is there any way to > stop it from constantly slipping ? I tried powdering it with some > Brownell's gun barrel rosen, and it works ok, but I don't have very > much and need to fix it right. Bob A couple of things suggest themselves: First; is the belt tensioned properly, not too tight, but not too loose. Second; is the belt the correct size (especially width) for the pulley. If it isn't wide enough, the belt will be riding on the bottom of the pulley, and not gripping with the sides. This is a perfect recipe for slipping. Old belts will do this, belts that are too tight will do this, and of course, the wrong size belt (too narrow) will do this. On my 12X54 the belt is 1/2" across the top, or 4L size, not saying that yours' is that size, but it is a place to start. If your belt is new, and you are sure it is correct in circumference and width, check the cross- section of the pulley "V" to make sure that you have the correct pulley matched to the correct belt. The Machinist Handbook has these measurements and I am sure that they are also available on the web ... somewhere. I hope that this helps, Chris Difani ------- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:40:43 -0400 From: Richard Parker Subject: Re: belt slipping Bob, when all else fails (tensioning the belt correctly, cleaning the pulley sheaves, etc.), try some spray-on belt dressing. You can get a can relatively cheap at any auto-parts store. I'd clean off all the rosin first, though. Rich ------- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 05:28:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Smith Subject: Re: belt slipping Hi Bob, take some sandpaper and scuff up both sides of the V groove, and then clean the pulley with electric contact cleaner, automotive brake cleaner, or alcohol etc. Make sure you have the correct belt, with proper belt tension, and make sure the pulleys are aligned. Also, check the motor for correct RPM. Regards, Don Smith ------- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 06:15:14 -0700 From: Chris Difani Subject: Re: belt slipping The other thing to check, maybe, is if the pulley has the keyway in it, to make sure that the key is in place, for both pulleys, the pulley on the motor shaft, and the pulley being "driven" by the belt. You might remove the belt from the next shaft, the one that is supposed to be driven by the "slipping" pulley. That would isolate the slipping pulley from the rest of the drive system.. Then you can check for missing keys, pulleys freely rotating on shafts that shouldn't be freely rotating, that kind of thing. There is something wrong physically with this drive system, and you need to look for it step by step, and isolating each step should help to find it. The scuffing option of the pulley "V" groove is a good idea. If that works theu it would seem to indicate that the belt is too small in cross-section width for the pulley "V" groove. With this constant slipping, there has to be something mechanical that is not right. Either the width of the pulley groove is too large for the belt, or the belt is too small in width for the groove. Something physical is wrong. Good luck, Chris Difani ------- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 09:40:28 EDT From: LADDERBARx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: belt slipping All the bases seem to have been covered but did you check to see if it is an industrial belt and not an automotive belt Mike ------- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:51:54 -0000 From: extratec2001x~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: belt slipping I don't recommend sanding or scuffing up the pulley. Many aluminum and pot metal pulleys are anodized to make the surface harder. This is done to prevent premature wear to the pulley. If you sand or scuff the pulley you might remove this anodizing. *Regis* ------- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:13:54 +0000 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: belt slipping Depending on the exact model machine, and how many times it has been dismantled, there is usually a spring that assists the motor's weight in maintaining tension on the belt. If there is a bolt that points toward the bracket that holds the motor by a pivot pin, there should be a spring on that bolt. Also, make sure the motor mount is free to drop as far as needed to hold the belt tension. If the motor, mount or something hits the bench, it will prevent belt tension from being enough. You might be able to fix that with a belt that is 1" shorter. This applies to the horizontal countershaft design. The vertical, with the motor under the spindle instead of behind it, is different. Jon ------- Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:47:55 -0500 From: "Ron Odum" Subject: Ooops... Well I did it up good this morning...Here is my problem..I was tinkering around with my M-109 and being a total newbie at the thing, completely backed off the knurled thumb nut on the stamped metal gear drum...Needless to say the locking pin inside the drum promply dropped outta sight.. Questions... 1. Is there an easy way to reinstall this piece or do I have to remove the shaft and pullys? 2. It looks like there is a set screw on the pully assembly. Can it be loosened and I possibly pull the pully assembly outward far enough to access the locking pin slot?? 3. Another way? Sorry for the bother, but the diagram I got with the lathe is not 100% accurate. I'd hate to bite off more than I can chew already. I should have looked more closely at the thumb nut assembly before I waded in. Live and learn. Thanks Ron ------- Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:42:30 +0500 From: "James Meyer" Subject: Re: Ooops... I think the set screw in the pulley is just there so you can oil the pully-to-shaft bearing. The pulley needs to spin on the shaft when you've got the back gears engaged. You shouldn't need to do anything with the set screw. My used 109 came to me with the locking piece already lost inside the back gear assembly. What I found out by accident is that if you remove the collar on the shaft at the threading gear end of the shaft (but still inside the housing) then the pulley will slip back enough to disengage the other gears inside the back gear assembly and give you *just* enough room to work inside without having to remove the shaft from the housing. My lost lock piece was still there. I got it out and used a bent paper clip to make a holder for it so that I could put it back in place. It only took a couple of tries and a few choice swear words. 8-) Jim ------- Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:43:45 -0500 From: "Ron Odum" Subject: Re: Ooops... Jim, thanks for the help...Following your advise, I just got the locking pin back in place..You were right, it is a tight squeeze..I dropped the pin a time or two before I finally stuck a dab of grease on the inside gears next to the slot...then stuck the pin back inside the housing with bent needlenose pliers...The grease held it in place while I finally manoeuvered it back in the slot with a small wire pick and some verbal persuasion. Thanks again Ron Odum ------- Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 23:36:15 -0500 From: "M K (Skip)Campbell Jr." Subject: Re: 12X36 Sears Atlas > ...Any ideas on getting the pully off short > of burning it off. Thanks Charlie Pearson I have had some luck doing this: Drill the set screw hole out to full dia. (drill out the threads). Use a die grinder with small stone or carbide burr to smooth down the ridges on the shaft created by the set screw. (requires patience) Remove the pulley and re-tap the set screw hole to the next larger size or if possible move the set screw hole to another location. The times I have done this it was only a circular berm on the shaft created by a set screw, not all the way around the shaft, but it did work. I think it will work for you but will require more time and patience. You might also try a custom made scraper blade made to fit in the hole and turn the shaft by hand to scrape down the berm. Regards and good luck, Skip Campbell Ft. Worth, TEXAS Craftsman 12X36 101.28990 ------- Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 16:09:15 -0000 From: "Horace Steven" Subject: Re: 12X36 Sears Atlas First, I am assuming you are speaking of the 4-groove pulley that drives the lathe mainshaft. If it's the 2-groove that the motor drives, it's different. I don't think you are going to fix your pulley problem without sacrificing your pulley. I had a similiar problem with a 10" Atlas, got mine off but did some damage, mine was not near as bad as yours sounds like. I found MSC had a pulley with the correct size sheaves, about $25 IIRC. #00053827. Or the guy who makes them. May have to rework/make new the shaft. Steve ------- Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:34:18 -0500 From: "Mario L Vitale" Subject: Re: Re: 12X36 Sears Atlas Charles: I have been watching this discussion of your dilemma regarding the pulley on your 12x36 and have much empathy for your situation. I kind of cringed when I saw you repeat what you thought was the only way to remove the pulley... I hope you didn't mean "burn it off" literally, as in using a "smoke wrench" ( a cutting torch, for those of you with a little more finess). I went down at looked at my 12x36 and think there may be a little less drastic approach. You could probably take a hacksaw and cut through the pulley from the o.d. to i.d. in two places and remove the pulley in two halves...probably saving the shaft. That die cast pulley should be pretty easy to cut through. Another approach might be to hack saw through the shaft on either side of the pulley. Replacing the shaft should be easy, and inexpensive since it looks like it's just a piece of 3/4" round stock. If you do this it is even possible that you could save the pulley. It might be worth a try. Good luck, Mario ------- Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:33:57 -0500 From: "jerdal" Subject: Making Pulleys I do NOT have an Atlas lathe (Other atlas items though), but, I recently made a dual pulley for the Logan that I do have. It may be worth describing, may not, you judge. I don't know how much will apply to the Atlas, but you may note that all the work was easily done on a lathe and drill press with minimal other equipment. The pulley is a dual v-belt pulley, with two sizes (for speeds) The belt goes from it to a dual flat pulley so that speeds can be changed. I had only the wrong sized single pulley that the previous owner put up with. What I did was first to figure out the two pulley sizes I needed to get the speeds I wanted AND use the same length belt for both, as it is a pain to move the motor. This turned out to be 2.5 and 4 inch OD, and I got them from the local "real" hardware store. (If you happen to live in St Louis County MO, that would be Branneky) I used the 4 inch as the base unit to fit the shaft, and decided to mount the other on it as an overhanging pulley. Using a mandrel to mount the work, I faced a spot on the outer face of the 4 inch to fit up the smaller pulley to it. On smaller pulley, I faced the mating face so that the distance between pulley grooves agreed with the driven pulley. Putting the mandrel through both for alinement, I drilled 3 holes for close-fitting 8-32 allen head cap screws, clearance in smaller, and threading in larger pulley. After tapping and ataching, I put them back on the mandrel, and trued up the grooves, taking off as little as possible to get a complete new surface on each face of the two grooves. Finally, I set up a couple of fairly thin parallels, and balanced the pulleys by drilling out bits of the 4 inch pulley until the assembly was balanced while on the mandrel. (parallels must be on a level surface). I did not do a dynamic couple balance job, not worth it at 1750 rpm was the thought. Apparently I was right. When put on the motor, and the belt tightened, they now run quietly, vibration-free. I can go from lo-speed range to hi-speed range in a half minute or so of belt shifting. If I had been fancy, I could have machined a groove and spigot for positive alignment of the two pulleys. Since I made the cap screw holes tight, and the holes bore on the unthreaded shank of the screws, I did not bother. Jerry ------- Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:47:35 -0400 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: Re: 12X36 Sears Atlas Neither pulley is pressed on! The 2 step pulley has also spun on the shaft, and removing it will also damage it. On my "new" Atlas 12" I had the same problem, but had to remove both pulleys to replace the bearings and shaft. I pressed both off, of course, damaging them. Luckily I still had my original lathe. I chucked them both up and indicated them to center. The large 2 step I was able to indicate on the good ID at the front (back busted), the 4 step ID was completely shot, so I indicated on the OD of one off the step groove walls (not as good, but it turned out OK). I bored them out to 7/8" and pressed in 7/8 OD X 3/4" ID sintered bronze bushings (bearings). The setscrew holes were then drilled through the bushings and re-tapped. With just one lathe this would be trickier, but you could make a couple of plywood pulleys to use temporarily while working on the originals. 3 layers with the middle smaller in OD would work. You could true them up on your lathe, before you take it apart. Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USA Builder Miinie #2 Captain R/C Combat Ship USS Arizona http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/ ------- Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 22:05:53 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: belt info OK, here it is: Belt length formula is stated to be accurate to about 0.15%. This is more accurate than the pulley sizes. It has proved accurate enough when I have used it. From Goodyear 'Handbook of Belting" 1947 p 13. for this, L is belt length C is center-to-center distance D is large pulley diameter d is small pulley diameter the symbol ^2 means squared, or multiplied by itself L=2C + 1.57 (D + d) + ( (D -d)^2 / 4C) for example, with a 4" and 2" at a particular distance, you get L= 18 + 1.57(6) + ( (4-2) ^2 / 36 or L= 18 + 9.42 + 4/36 this, if I have done the arithmetic right, is 27.53 inches You can substitute likely values of pulley size and find combinations that give identical or nearly identical belt length. Or, you can re-solve the equation for another variable, etc. I did not bother, just tried a few as I was too lazy to do the algebra. If your setup can swing and compensate, you can get even better results, since you can pick the exact ratios and tolerate a little length difference. Remember to use the effective diameter of the pulley, it may be different than the marked size. I have a South Bend jackshaft with a v-belt riding on the outside of a large flat pulley, and a v-pulley on the motor. I had to use a larger effective size for the jackshaft pulley since the entire belt was "outside of" the pulley. ------- Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:32:22 -0700 From: Jay & Anne Greer Subject: Re: Orange V-Belt >From: "stevenleereynolds" >Hi, I have a 52" Atlas lathe that I would like to install those >Orange v-belts on. Anyone have a history using and/or making those >belts? Do they bond them with heat or glue or what? Thanks Steve Reynolds Hi Steve: I have been using the red segmented V belts made by "Fenner Drives" for several years now. They work so well, that I have them on all of my machines. Their address is: http://www.fennerdrives.com/ Best wishes, Jay Greer/Common Sense Boat & Tool Co. Inc. ------- Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:47:10 -0400 From: "Sterling Caudill" Subject: Re: Orange V-Belt Steve: The orange belt material (some type of plastic) stretches a lot. Under power the belts don't perform too well. In my opinion those belts should be only for conveyor type applications. You would be better off with a segmented belt. Sterling ------- Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:21:22 -0800 From: "Willis Fowler" Subject: Re: Orange V-Belt I have the fenner power belt link type. like it, but seem to be a little louder. It is on a Jet 12X40(I have 2 atlas 12x36 also) The nice thing is you don't have to pull spindle and pully to replace (real time saver) Will Fowler ------- Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 07:06:53 +0100 From: "j.c.gerber" Subject: Re: Orange V-Belt Sorry, I do not agree with you Sterling. After a month of use I adjusted the tension once again and since 1.1/2 year there has been no difference. I use them from the spindle to the back gear as well as from the back gear to the motor. Regards Jean-Claude, Switzerland www.homestead.com/turnandmill ------- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 01:46:58 -0000 From: "renaissanceman04002" Subject: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive FWIW: I changed out all the solid drive belts on all my floor power wood working tools last yeart and have had nothing but good experiences with them. The segmented belts are very easy to use and wear like iron. The benefit I like best is they also dampen vibration significantly. I tried the washer test (also called the nickle test) on my table saw. I filed a short flat (about 1/8") on the edge of a 1" diameter fender washer. I then balanced that washer on the flat in the middle of the table saw. With the solid belts I could not get the washer to stand because of the shimmy and vibration of the saw. I put on the segmented belt and turned on the saw. The washer didn't fall over - it had a slight quiver but it was solid steady. Less vibration = better cutting and control. Caviat: I can't speak to the multidirectional benifit of the segmented belt. I do know they work both ways because I had the one on my band saw on backwards for a while - but as I recall the manufacturer tells you to run them in the power direction. My Craftsman 12" came with a segmented belt on the spindle; I'll put one on the motor too as soon as I get things running. Jerry ------- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:07:40 -0600 From: "M K (Skip) Campbell Jr." Subject: Re: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive The main problem with the link belts is that they are very hard on aluminum pulleys. If it's a motor pulley it can be replaced relatively easily. If it's the dual drive pulley/bull gear driver on the underdrive lathe, you are in big trouble. I've purchased several parts lathes in getting mine up to good condition and all but one had the drive pulley in the headstock almost, if not completely, worn out. You definitely don't want it to wear more than necessary. I would definitely not recommend the link belt on anything but steel pulleys and if any of you have them on a lathe with aluminum pulleys I would remove them immediately. my2¢ Skip Campbell Ft. Worth, Texas ------- NOTE TO FILE: The lathe existing pulleys were already worn out, presumably while using traditional V-belts. (There were some other types of link belts earlier on.) The latest style of link belts mentioned here as widely available are very stiff and seem to have been made known to the general public only in the last few years. Also original Atlas pulleys appear to be Zamac, not aluminum. If the lathe pulleys ever do wear out now using link belts, an alternative fix then would be home-machined steel pulleys. Alternatively, there are softer round belts mentioned elsewhere that can be cut to length as desired and fused together avoiding both the wear of hard link belts and the nuisance of taking the spindle apart for a conventional belt. (However, there has been mention that these round belts might be prone to stretching, but could presumably be cut and fused again?) Careful experimentation and checking for wear should solve your particular belt problem. Time will tell what works best for you. 2006 Update. Folks out there have converted many types and sizes of shop machinery to the link belts with no reported problems in the hundreds of messages I have read on this topic. Happy folks. Your choice. ------- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:00:00 -0600 From: "Paul Siegert" Subject: RE: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive Thanks Ernest, given the pulleys are Zamac, and Skip Campbells comments below about not using the link belts on anything but steel, is it safe to assume that includes Zamac? Not sure how tough the Zamac alloy is when compared to steel or aluminum, but seeing as the gears are made of it and they seem to hold up without showing appreciable wear, I'm not sure about the pulley/leather-link-belt wear problem on the pulleys - would the link belt be recommended for them? Paul ------- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:23:34 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: RE: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive Quoting from the Holy Book Of Atlas (Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinist Tables): Tensile strength of Zamak is 2x of cast iron. Impact strength of Zamak is 4x of cast iron. Now, what are the wearing qualities of steel (many variations, here) vs. cast iron? I have noticed that the smallest pulley groove on the 4 cone counter shaft pulley is getting thin on the side wall (the one, i use most) Leo (pearland, tx 48 degrees in shop! brrr...) ------- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:49:13 -0500 From: David Beierl Subject: RE: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive At 10:00 AM 11/28/2002, Paul Siegert wrote: >assume that includes Zamac? Not sure how tough the Zamac alloy is when >compared to steel or aluminum, but seeing as the gears are made of it and >they seem to hold up without showing appreciable wear, I'm not sure about >the pulley/leather-link-belt wear problem on the pulleys - would the link >belt be recommended for them? The link belts aren't leather, they're a very tough fabric composite. I'm using one on the motor pulleys of my 618 (one steel, one Zamak) and with fairly light use the belt has accumulated a silver coating on the sides that can only have come from the countershaft pulley. I have already been concerned about this and will have to examine the situation more closely. david ------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:17:35 -0500 From: Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD Subject: RE: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive If you replace an alumonum or Zamak pully with cast iron or steel pulley, BE SURE the overall width is the same. If not, the grooves won't line up. Rene N. Chabannes (Titan) ASC/YC - Production Operations C-17 SPO, WPAFB, OH 937-255-1042 (DSN 785-1042) ------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:49:26 -0500 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive At 10:59 PM 11/27/02 +0000, you wrote: >Ron, does the segmented belt work if you reverse the motor? Will it fit >a 101.07403 12" atlas/craftsman? I would rather not pull my spindle to >change a very worn belt. John Glowacki John, yes the belt works in reverse, maybe not as efficiently. However, while the belts supposedly are somewhat directional, mine are not marked for direction, and I have run them both ways with no noticeable difference in operation. You will need to get the 1/2" size, and you will need 2 4' belts, one for the spindle, and one for the motor. You can save a little money and use a regular belt for the motor, but get a good quality one, or the joint where the ends are glued will cause a jump, as it goes over the motor pulley. I use the type with the small scallops cut on the inside as they are a bit more flexible (I've ordered another segmented belt the motor belt). Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USA http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/t/h/thib9564/ ------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:21:03 -0000 From: "renaissanceman04002" Subject: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive It's easy to tell the proper direction on segmented belts. Turn it over and look at it's tummy and see how the tabs all lay in one direction. [Let's see...how can I say this...?] The belt is supposed to operate with those tabs all running smoothly over the driven (spindle) sheave pointing back at the motor sheave. During regular operation, if the tab ends are pointing at the driven (spindle) sheave as they approach it, the belt is reversed. They will work OK when you reverse the motor. I ran one on my band saw for a couple of months untill I discovered it. No harm done. Interestingly, my 12" Craftsman came with a segmented leather drive belt on it. I haven't examined it too closly yet but it's black and seems to have steel rivets holding it together. Anyone have a comment on this? Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:57:50 -0000 From: "renaissanceman04002" Subject: link belt topic Paul: Your question prompted me to go out and really look at this thing closely. Several things: 1. The guy who installed it put it on backwards - or my theory of direction is all screwed up. Note: I took a digital picture I'll be happy to send anyone - I tried to post it in the Photo section but was not successful. 2. The link belt is not like those I have used - instead of self interlocking segments of the belt it is literaly riveted with steel pins so that the belt will not break apart as far as I can tell. I looked for a "master link" like bicycle chains had when I was a kid but could not identify one. I even tried popping a set apart with a screwdriver and got a stab in the palm for my troubles. This causes me to wonder what the point of using the link belt was in the first place if your couldn't get it apart to repair? It must be a very early model of Link Belts. 3. But, more to the question you ask - there is no discernable wear on the sheave walls as noted by an earlier posting here where the writer saw gray stain on his belt that he thought might be from wear on the sheave. I see this as a good thing because, as old and antique as this belt has to be, it must have been operating backwards for some time to have made dirty oil imprints in the sheave groove. As I recall (it's been a couple of years since I looked into it) my direction information came from the Link Belt page and from the supplier where I bought the belts. Since these links are (I think) made of a nylon impregnated rubber/fabric material I don't see how they can cause wear on the metal parts of the sheave unless there is an abrasive introduced along with the oil that is around everything. I'll have to search for Link Belt sites to find out how long ago they stoped making these black link belts with rivets. Are we having fun yet? jerry ------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:26:40 -0800 From: Jay & Anne Greer Subject: Re: link belt topic Hi Guys: All of the belt driven machinery in my shop is driven by power link belts made by Fenner Drives They interlock without the use of pins and are entirely efficient as well as quiet. Best, Jay Greer/Common Sense Boat & Tool Co. Inc. ------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:38:23 -0000 From: "renaissanceman04002" Subject: Re: link belt topic Jay: Yeah - those are the ones. BUT - when they say "No Tools Required" that's only for young guys who come equipped with a gorrilla grip and steel-backed sinew in their fingers. I neded a pair of vice grips and needle nose pliers to get mine together. Lordy were they stiff. ------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:40:34 +0100 From: "j.c.gerber" Subject: Re: link belt topic Hi Jerry, poor you! You cannot use a file for a while and just for a belt. I am using segmented V-belts with succes on several machines I have or had and never felt any wear due to it. I recently swapped my Atlas 10 against a Swiss manual precision lathe and again am using power twist belts. The vibrations are far less, the torque is very good, no slipping. Another plus, no spindle dismantling to change the belt. Here are 2 companies which carry them. I had imported about 10 packages from the US and even though it was quite a bit of money for just belts, I never regretted it: http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/findprod.cfm?&DID=6&sku=6040 http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G3640&&User_ID=2801 119&St=5074&St2=58251642&St3=39768830&DS_ID=1 Harborfreight used to have them under following constellation, but tonight I cannot find them on their website. That's where I bought mine from because they were cheaper there. Tool-Free Installation Replace worn or broken belts on shop equipment without disassembly. Stronger and more vibration-resistant than conventional belts. Adjusts for any size setup. a.. Manufacturer: PowerTwist b.. Size: 1/2" W x 5 ft. L ITEM 39799-2VGA All the best to you palm and happy belt replacement Jean-Claude, Switzerland www.homestead.com/turnandmill ------- Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:28:31 -0000 From: "renaissanceman04002" Subject: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive Sounds plausable - but I think my rivets are round - not "T" headed (of course the "T" tops could have been worn down but there is no evidence of wear or scarring of the sheave - also the heads ride in the center of the pulley profile and do not come in contact with the sheave), but I'll take another look today. It does seem silly to create a link belt system that is riveted together. As far as sheave wear - I can see no metal wear on the sheaves at all. Everything I see points to everything in the spindle are being original and very old so it's unlikely the belts have worn anything. I don't know what Zamak is (it's a new word to me) but if the pulleys are made of it there is no observable wear to these eyes. J ------- Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:47:40 -0000 From: "renaissanceman04002" Subject: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive > Jerry, mine are perpendicular in the segmented belt; never touch the > sides chris, the belt is orange in color. your belt is likly more modern than mine - the one I'm looking at is black - my suspecion is, Orange is a later variation. Until I saw my belt I didn't know they were ever any color but orange. The steel rivets appear to be similar to pop rivits but solid, not hollow. The head is on the top and the stem goes through the 3 links and a tiny washer. The only way I can see to get it off would be to grind off the foot of a rivit or just cut the belt. Any other option seems to be to disassemble all the gearing in the head like I'd have to do if I were replacing a normal solid belt...not something this novice is excited about doing right now. I'm going to just leave things as they are for the moment, get the bench made and level and install the lathe to a working condition with a good 6" chuck, QC tool post and rewire/mount the motor. I'm too timid to begin disassembling everything till I know how to get it back together -------- Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:47:16 -0600 From: "John Glowacki" Subject: Segmented link belt update I changed my mind and installed the power twist segmented link belt on my Craftsman 12x36" lathe spindle. After the three and a half minute installation, and then running the lathe for a couple minutes, I'm sold. I never knew this machine could be this smooth. I will monitor the pulley wear and report back if I notice anything. I don't think I could ever buy another standard v-belt again. This is how it was meant to be. Next I will put one on the motor to counter shaft drive. John Glowacki ------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:45:15 -0500 From: "Elizabeth Hall" Subject: Re: Re: Belt Change on 12" with under drive From: "renaissanceman04002" > The steel rivets appear to be similar to pop rivets but solid, not > hollow. The head is on the top and the stem goes through the 3 links This sounds like "Brammer Link Belt," an earlier version of segmented belting. The belting should be keyholed where the pins go through and are disassembled with a prying and twisting motion. A special tool was available that resembled a pair of angled needle nosed pliers with external notches to help open the links. Rich ------- Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:50:18 -0000 From: "Richard Feldman" Subject: Spindle pulleys slipping on spindle - 101-21400 Hi, after searching the archives I still am wondering what to do about the spindle pulleys slipping on my C/A 6" 101-21400 (serial # 014938). There is one set screw (slotted), and it loosens up after very little running time. The bull gear has the same problem (one allen head set screw). I haven't taken the spindle out of this machine, but do have the instructions (Atlas bulletin). I can imagine damage to the spindle beneath these screws, but wonder if a screw replacement/modification would help, or if this novice needs to bite the bullet and remove the spindle. If so, what should I be looking to do to fix the problem once the spindle is removed? TIA Rich ------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:49:10 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Spindle pulleys slipping on spindle - 101-21400 Wait a minute! The pulley cone on the spindle is supposed to slip! In fact, it has bushings that run on the spindle. There is a locking pin on the large gear (next to the spindle nose) that engages the pulley cone. If this is broken, the pulley will just "free wheel" on the spindle. (look on the right side of the gear, there should be a grooved pin that will pull out and push in) The set screw on the pulley cone is just to plug the hole where you oil these bushings. As far as the set screw on the large gear, it presses on a key. I have solved the problem by running a second set screw on top of the tightened first screw. (i believe anthony was the one to suggest this... thanks) There is a second set screw on the large gear. It retains a spring the presses on a ball the provide a detent for the locking pin. Oops! The last sentence should have read; provides a detent for the locking pin. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:26:25 -0800 From: Frank Evan Perdicaro Subject: Cutting a keyway in a pulley This has been discussed in various places at various times. If the pulley is aluminum or zinc, you can file out a slot in short order, or put it in a chuck, lock the spindle and use a straight bit in the toolholder to do some of the work. (Move the carriage back and forth by hand.) Hacksaw, then finish with the lathe. I've used this technique: Get a section of rod the finished diameter for the hole. (Bolt, drill rod, etc.) Cross drill, then end drill and tap. Put the pulley on the table of a drill press, and the tool you just made in the chuck. Mount a tiny cutter in the cross drilled hold, and use the drill press like a shaper. Hint: use a Vice Grip clamped to the tool, but constrained by the column of the drill press. This technique will make short work of aluminum, brass, zinc and similar soft metals. If you have a hard tool (like a piece of hardened keyway stock) you can cut steel and cast iron pullies. In a pinch once, I even cut a slot in zinc with a cold chisel. A small end mill in a drill press will make most of the cut you need: use a center cutting mill and cut vertically only. Finish with a file. ------- Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 05:23:03 -0000 From: "kdspriggs" Subject: Motor pulley, easy fix When I got my Craftsman 12x24 it only had one pulley on the motor. I went to the local hardware store and bought two pulleys as near to the correct size as I could get. As I recall I was able to get off the shelf pulleys that were within 1/4 inch of the correct size. I then machined enough off the hub of the larger pulley opposite the set screw end so that it would slide on far enough to put the pulleys side by side. I used one key through both pulleys. The small pulley was put on first with the set screw to the outboard side of the motor , lined up and secured. The larger pulley then went on also with the set screw to the outboard side of the motor and was secured. The set screw area of the smaller pulley is inside the machined out area of the larger pulley. If the motor shaft was long enough you might be able to put the pulleys back to back with the setscrews to the outside of the pulleys and not have to do any machineing at all. After I got done I checked the RPM with a tach and was almost exactly at the right speed. ------- Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:01:05 -0000 From: "Ernest Lear" Subject: Re: Pully delemma Yes it easy using the lathe to start with. Fix the pulley in a chuck or to a face plate with the centre hole true to the axis of the lathe spindle. Lock the spindle as you are not going to use the motor. You make up a square ended tool that just smaller that the keyway slot and this is place in the tool holder so that my hand you can move the carriage so that the tool cuts on the far side of the hole. By using the cross slide feed, you can cut a slot in the hole of the pulley. Moving this tool in and out of the hole by the carriage hand wheel each time you take a cut. When I did it. I did just a small amount of the slot, just enough to enable me to place it in the vice and then filed the slot to fit the key. On fitting the pulley to the motor the slot lined up perfectly with the slot in the spindle. After fitting I drill a hole,threaded it and place a grub screw through the centre of the large pulley to lock down on the pulley key holding all firmly to the motor shaft. Have a go its quite easy to do and it works. Regards Ernest ------- Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:30:04 EST From: Sagebush9x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Pully delemma One word of warning about using the carriage feed to cut a keyway-be careful! If you use just a little too much force there will be a sickening "SNAP"-the very weak Zamac "gearbox" on the carriage feed will be cracked open when you investigate...no need to ask how I know this-:o( ------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:15:06 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Pully delemma or, or... the rack will be minus a tooth! Not a pretty sight! Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:04:45 -0800 From: "GSNEFF" Subject: Re: Pully delemma Wally Skyerman made a wonderful little attachment to avoid just this problem. It is in the files section IIRC it is a lever arangement that attaches to the tailstock and allows you to broach with the lever to move the carrige instead of the hand wheel. Faster and easier on the machine. In the file section under "int. keway cutting attachment" Glenn ------- Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:20:37 EST From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Bull Gear Pin Puller (Was Re: New Meat) Mon, 16 Dec 2002 Chris writes: << --- And I understand there's a tool to pull the lock pin for backgear usage? Can anyone elaborate for me on that? >> It's a little device made out of heavy gauge sheet metal with a notch in the end intended to hook behind the head of the pin to make it easier to disengage the pin (you may have noticed that it's hard to get your fingers in there). Nobody has these, they're *always* lost. Best solution is to get a tack puller, sort of like a screw driver where the tip has been flared out, a V-notch cut in the end, and the end curved up so that your hand is kept clear of the surface. If the V-notch doesn't suit you you can hand file it a bit to make it more rectangular as on the original. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:38:38 -0500 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: Bull Gear Pin Puller (Was Re: New Meat) I took a piece of popsicle stick, sanded it into a ramp, fit it to the slot in the pin, and placed it in the slot with the thick end against the step. Then I pulled the pin out with the pin riding up on the ramp, and past the step. Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USA http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/t/h/thib9564/ ------- Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:12:54 -0500 From: Ron Fitzpatrick Subject: Spindle belt for atlas MFC bench top horizontal miller Would anyone in the group know the belt #(Goodyear or Gates etc. NOT the atlas part #) for my Atlas Model MFC Horizontal Bench-Top Miller? The belt in question goes from the countershaft hanger pulley to the spindle pulley and has Atlas part # MI-58S.With a good Gates # it would probably be three times cheaper than trying to get one from Clausing if it is even available. ------- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 03:46:57 EST From: Crashdummy653x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Spindle belt for atlas MFC bench top horizontal miller Go to an industrial supply like granger and they can help you with the belts. They are on line or give them a call. I matched up my belts at a appliance supplier and they work great. Take the spindle apart and take the belt to someone with industrial belts size "a." ------- Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:49:38 -0700 From: "Ron Shaw" Subject: Re:Spindle belt for atlas MFC bench top horizontal miller Ref Ron Fitzpatricks question about a replacement belt. I heard/read somewhere that the original spindle belt on the Atlas horizontal mill was a steel tensile cord belt. These belts are no longer available from Gates. Probably the closest currently available product would be an aramid (Kevlar) tensile belt, such as the something in the Gates Power Cable line. I believe one of the other respondents indicated it might be an "A" section (1/2" top width) belt, which is a size available in the Power Cable line. Gates' web site, www.gates.com, has a list of Gates industrial power transmission dealers and you should be able to find one near you. Ron Shaw Denver, CO (and a long-time Gates employee) ------- Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:43:23 -0500 From: Ron Fitzpatrick Subject: Re; Spindle Belt Atlas Horizontal Bench Top Miller Thanks to all who replied on my query. My problem is that the machine is all disassembled for rebuilding and since I don't have a belt I don't know its correct length. Without putting machine back together to measure center line distance from spindle to counter-shaft I wouldn't even be able to calculate correct length. Also belt must be put onto spindle shaft before putting shaft back into housing so even if I assembled mill to get centerline distances I would have to disassemble again to put on belt. Was just hoping someone in group had same mill and could at least give me correct length and width of belt. Belt also looks to want to be no wider than 3/8" when looking at width of pulley grooves. ------- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:52:11 EST From: Crashdummy653x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re; Spindle Belt Atlas Horizontal Bench Top Miller You may have to mock up the assembly and measure the distance. Is there a "hot Rodder" in the neighborhood???? I bet I have 30 belts just for mock up work for custom installations. If the belt looks to be as thin as 3/8 inch, take a pulley to an industrial supplier and ask what size it is. Maybe someone put the wrong pulleys on it. Someone did that to my Atlas lathe and the speeds were off until I replaced them. Good luck, Scott, SO. CAL. ------- Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:37:10 -0500 From: Ron Fitzpatrick Subject: Re: Re; Spindle Belt Atlas Horizontal Bench Top Miller Pulleys are all correct for machine as witnessed by part #'s on them. As my previous mail said I'm just trying to save myself a ton of extra work. ------- Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:28:39 -0500 From: Damon Gentile Subject: Re: Re; Spindle Belt Atlas Horizontal Bench TopMiller Actually I checked for a belt on the *sears* site, and the parts listing cross reffed the atlas p/n to an industry standard FHP belt. One call to the local auto parts store and $7 had me a HD unit. Damon ------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:54:09 -0500 From: Ron Fitzpatrick Subject: Atlas mill spindle belt To romoshka; Steve, thanks for your reply on belt. You mention in your reply belt is approx. 1/2 wide. I'm thinking you must have different mill (not model MFC) as pulleys on my mill are only 3/8 wide.I suppose you could use 1/2 wide belt but it would be hard on pulleys and belt because of improper fit.I wouldn't want undue wear on pulleys because they are probably no longer available. As to your query on double sheave motor pulley mine is missing that also. I have a buddy who has a working MFC (it also has a 1/2 spindle belt on it although I am convinced that is wrong size) and I plan on measuring his double pulley and making one myself. I will E-mail you with sizes if you like. Just as a post note I did look up price of pulley thru Sears (Part # 10-428x, Sears model # 10115500) and they did have it listed as available at $121.60. I would think the price from Clausing (Phone # 1-574-5330371) would be the same. Let me know if I can help with any other questions. ------- Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:50:23 -0800 From: Jay & Anne Greer Subject: Re: Broken drive belt on atlas 10 F Hi Guys I swear by Power Twist Plus V Belts by Fenner Drives. They are those funny red segmented belts you often see and wonder how or if they work. They work just fine and are easy to install plus ultra quiet! They are made in the following sizes 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 7/8" and 1 1/4". I buy mine direct from Fenner at 800 243-3374 or Every machine in my shop is set up with them funny red segmented belts. Cheers, Jay Greer/Common Sense Boat & Tool Co. Inc. ------- Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:34:11 +0100 From: "j.c.gerber" Subject: Re: Broken drive belt on atlas 10 F Brian, I use these Power Twist Belts every time I have to replace a V-Belt. Marvellous, practical and reduce noise + vibrations. Never had markings on the pulleys as some fear. Jean-Claude, Switzerland www.homestead.com/turnandmill ------- Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:52:12 -0500 From: "John Glowacki" Subject: Re: Broken drive belt on atlas 10 F I was a segmented belt skeptic for some time. I was bothered by the reports of high pulley wear, and non-reversibility. I took a chance and installed one on my A/C 12x36 101.07403 spindle. So far I'm very happy. Installation time was about five minutes, and I took my time. It is very quiet and vibration free. I don't have very much time on my link belt. I have not noticed any pulley wear, and the belt seems to handle reverse well. John Glowacki ------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:07:20 -0500 From: "Rigrac" Subject: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC I would be curious to hear from people in the group what size approximately their double motor and countershaft pulleys are. Having just made a set for myself by reverse engineering from my speed chart I am wondering if those pulley sizes also changed depending upon whether mill was 8, 12 or 16 speed variant. I did purchase a print for obsolete double countershaft pulley (L2-679B ) from Clausing but had to change small pulley diameter to obtain correct speeds. Part of this discrepancy MIGHT be due to the fact that motor RPM at that time was published at 1740 RPM and not 1725 as is available today. Also sizing my 4-step spindle and countershaft pulleys I found a fair bit of discrepancy between their large to small diameters when comparing one to the other ( ideally both pulleys should have been EXACTLY the same but in actual fact were not. These pulleys also showed next to no wear.) From calculations I did in the high speed range only, out of 8 speeds (4 from one motor speed output and four from the other motor speed output) 2 were dead on, 3 were within 1/2 %, 1 was minus 5 1/2 %, one plus 3 %, and one plus 6 %. Ron Burlington, Ontario, Canada ------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:38:09 -0500 From: "Richard Farris" Subject: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC >Part of this discrepancy MIGHT be due to the fact that motor RPM at >that time was published at 1740 RPM and not 1725 as is available today. Ron: For a single speed, 120 volt, single phase four pole induction motor, the syncronous speed is 1800rpm. Due to friction, windage, rotor losses, etc. -- the slip speed is anywhere from 1720+ up to MAYBE on a good day for a good motor -- about 1750/1760. I always read the published speed on the nameplate as a nominal speed. ie: If the nameplate says 1740rpm, I assume anything from 1725 upto 1760. Also if you load the motor up, the slip increases and the current goes up also. Hope this helps, Dick ------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:32:29 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC Voltage as delivered may be over/under depending on how exacting your local power supplier is and length/size of conductors to machine. Have had some amusing experience with 220 volts supplied to 110 volt light bulbs...as in my how bright we are! Also surplus Air Force generator when fired up for first time in many years was well over rated voltage and really delivered bright picture on color TV...unfortunately that was last time TV functioned! Point is the data plate assumes uniform rated voltage/cycles which is not always a real world fact. If motor seems to be running ok (sounds normal and not overheating) and chips are being generated in a satisfactory manner what more can you ask for? Remember this a simple low budget 1930's machine design. If you want exact speed control you will have to look into a variable speed motor or some sort of infinately variable transmission (reeves variable speed drive pulley or wheel and disk set up from a Toro snowblower) as well as a tachometer on lathe spindle....all good ideas I think, but, a little overkill unless your needs dictate otherwise. ...not even $0.00000000002 worth Louis ------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:55:17 -0500 From: "Rigrac" Subject: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC Lou: Not wanting absolute exact speed control. It's just that when you are trying to do calculations to make things such as pulleys you can not have "variables" otherwise you would be doing calculations from now to the end of time. At some point "Atlas" had to have either done calculation to make speed charts or if they tached final output RPM then that would have been for a specified set of pulley diameters. ------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:16:39 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC I see your point of view and agree that correct pulley ratio that agrees with manufacturer's chart is desirable. I personally found it hard to accept wear of bed and messed up carriage riding surfaces and took lathe to pieces to correct things others would perhaps shrug their shoulders over and accept. I am not as concerned over spindle rpm as I believe acceptable rpm range is broad enough to allow even as inexperienced as myself to achieve acceptable result. We each seek a situation we can live with. Best wishes Louis ------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:38:37 EST From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Ron writes: << I would be curious to hear from people in the group what size approximately their double motor and countershaft pulleys are. >> Engineering a multi-speed V-belt drive is more involved than it appears on the surface. Firstly, the effective diameter of the pulleys is not the OD but rather at the neutral axis of the V-belts, say approximately 1/3 of the depth below the outside surface. Secondly, unlike gears you can't simply add the diameters and as long as they are the same they will be correct. With belts, because they wrap around more than half the circumference of the large pulley and less than half on the small pulley, when you have graduated sizes you have to adjust for this factor in order to get equal belt tension on the different pairs. Additionally, the difference in wrap between the large and small pulleys is affected by the distance between the pulleys, the closer they are to each other the greater the differential in wrap between the large and small pulleys. << Having just made a set for myself by reverse engineering from my speed chart I am wondering if those pulley sizes also changed depending upon whether mill was 8,12 or 16 speed variant. >> I believe that if you look at the part numbers you'll find that the motor drive pulleys remain the same across all variants. << I did purchase a print for obsolete double countershaft pulley (L2-679B) from Clausing but had to change small pulley diameter to obtain correct speeds. Part of this discrepancy MIGHT be due to the fact that motor RPM at that time was published at 1740 RPM and not 1725 as is available today. >> Did you already have the correct 2-ratio motor pulley? If so, and you had to make a new 2-ratio countershaft pulley for the primary belt anyway, why wouldn't you vary the sizes on the countershaft pulley? << Also sizing my 4-step spindle and countershaft pulleys I found a fair bit of discrepancy between their large to small diameters when comparing one to the other (ideally both pulleys should have been EXACTLY the same but in actual fact were not. These pulleys also showed next to no wear.) >> See my first paragraph. << From calculations I did in the high speed range only, out of 8 speeds (4 from one motor speed output and four from the other motor speed output) 2 were dead on, 3 were within 1/2 %, 1 was minus 5 1/2 %, one plus 3 % and one plus 6 %. >> Have you had a chance to "tach" these speeds to verify your calculations? I know that when I calculated the apparent ratios between the published speed steps for some of the Atlas lathes and the mill, when comparing A, B, C, and D speeds in slow and fast motor ratio and in direct and back gear for each, the ratios did *not* work out. I'd be interested in what you find out. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 07:01:36 -0000 From: "chris strawford" Subject: Re: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC Is there anyone out there who can give me the probably correct (original) OD Diameters of the twin pulley on the motor spindle of my Atlas MF Milling Machine? I'm a keen amateur but not an engineer. Chris (UK) ------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:54:45 -0600 From: Rodent Subject: Re: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC As long as the diameters of the pulleys are measured the same way and are designed to take the same size belt. The drive ratio is simply the ratio of the two pulley diameters. ------- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 07:39:30 -0800 From: "Dan Hill" Subject: Re: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC Hi Chris: Bracket on the right hand side if it is above the opening that the belt runs thru should be the mounting bracket for the coolant system. It was used to mount and position either the feed line for the coolant pump or to support and position a gravity feed reservoir that Atlas offered. According to Peter if his is Serial #6714 and was made between 1946 & 1948 yours would have to be between 1945 & 1946/47 ??? Guards mounted on the upper horizontal shaft that runs thru the countershaft bracket. The upper guard hinges vertically on that shaft and the motor guard has a hinge bracket that mounts on the end of the shaft for that guard to open horizontally like you would open a door. Dan ------- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:53:12 EST From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Rodent writes: << As long as the diameters of the pulleys are measured the same way and are designed to take the same size belt, The drive ratio is simply the ratio of the two pulley diameters. >> That's not true. Let's suppose a driver pulley with an OD of 2" and a driven pulley with an OD of 4". Simple math gives 4 / 2 = speed reduced by a factor of 2. Now suppose that the neutral axis is 1/4" diameter less than the OD for each pulley (just numbers, they don't have to be correct for this application). 3.75 / 1.75 = 2.142857---. You may say close enough, and the larger the pulleys are the less difference there will be between the calculations for OD and neutral axis, but if you're going to make the effort you might as well get it right. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:58:15 +0000 From: Brian Squibb Subject: Re: Re: Motor and Countershaft Pulleys Atlas MFC I have always worked on the belt size is proportional to the waist size ------- ;-) ------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 03:41:04 -0000 From: "Greg" Subject: belt length TH42 I know this question has perhaps been addressed numerous times, but I need to be sure on something. I've about decided to replace the spindle belt on my 10" with one of the link belts so highly touted in many messages. The only reason I need to replace my v-belt is because the previous owner replaced it with a much too short belt (thus it can't be dis-engaged). In reality I'd like to put the correct length v-belt on it but don't know what the correct length should be. So, two questions. Correct belt dimensions for a TH42 with the countershaft support mounted to the Atlas cast iron legs? And should I just forget the hassle of trying to be factory correct and go with a link belt? thanks to all for any assistance. Greg ------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:27:38 -0500 From: "Cindy/Wayne" Subject: Re: belt length TH42 Greg, I have replaced both belts on my 10x54 with the segmented belts, and could not be happier. They are very easy to install, take most vibration away from the drive train ( a major plus!), and are about as cheap as a new set of OEM belts. Just make sure that your adjustments are in the middle of their travel before you install the belt, get it close so that you can move it across the four grooves with some effort, and it should stay in place with the tensioner pushed tight. Wayne(rice)Burner The snow in NH is finally melting ------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:50:46 -0000 From: "joekott1" Subject: Re: Sears 101.07301 Pulleys > want to just buy some belts and pulleys from the hardware store I > work at to get this running. I have the parts catalog from Clausing > and the countershaft pulley I need is over $100. I had to replace the 2 step pulley on my lathe when I rebuilt my 12". I dont know if this is the case with all Atas machines but the pulley was fixed to the shaft with only a set screw!! There wasn't even a flat on the shaft so you can imagine how messed up the pulley and countershaft had become! I ran into the same $ issue you ran into. I decided to scrap the entire 2 pulley deal and replace it with pulleys available at hardware stores and through McMaster. I simply changed the pulley on the drive motor to get the correct range of speeds and away I went! The pulleys can float axially along the counter shaft a short distance so that the belt sort of self-aligns the pulleys. I should mention that I replaced the entire counter shaft (I was not very impressed with the original design). All the pulleys are now fixed by keys and retaining rings. So to change to a different pulley on the motor side of the countershaft I remove the retaining ring slip off the pulley and replace it with another pulley and re-install the retaining ring. A little more work and time but I honestly do not change the pulleys very often so it isn't much of a bother. This may not work on your machine but it is just a thought! ------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:43:33 -0500 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Re: Sears 101.07301 Pulleys For the Logan, I was able to find separate pulleys of the right sizes. I then faced off the hubs and got them held together with three small socket-head cap screws. Some truing and flash removal produced a "jerry-built" double pulley, from $1 worth of garage sale junk. I could not find ANY pulley otherwise that would keep the belt length the same for both settings. Jerrold ------- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:09:41 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: What size pulley SHOULD I have on the motor The pulley sizes are more your choice than anything else as far as I am concerned. You make the choices for spindle speed and select the pulley size for those speeds. When you are running stepped pulleys, it is always nice to have a matched set on the other side of the drive so that the slack remains the same so that there is no real adjusting to keep the belt tight. This is the important thing. How you set up your machine is really your choice. For me, I'd go with a variable speed DC motor and a few ratios of large change for my ideal machine. 1/4 horse motors are quite large enough for a 6" lathe. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:12:59 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: pulley dimensions >I wonder if any of you who has an Atlas 618 would mind providing the >dimensions of both the motor pulley (M429) and countershaft pulley (M427) M429 dimensions from the A/C list: On my 101.21400 6 in.Atlas Craftsman: measurements taken with 12 in. dial calipers, so don't count on extreme accuracy. :) OD large - 3.200 groove - 2.600 OD small - 1.700 groove - 1.125 OA width - .812 width large - .418 width small - .394 > I am missing the OEM motor pulley and will be making do with the closest > match of motor and countershaft pullies I can get through McMaster Carr > until an original motor pulley comes my way. My 618 also lacked the motor pulley and I just finished turning a single step aluminum pulley for it. This is really a good beginner project to use your lathe to make *exact* parts without having to depend on inexact and expensive stock generic products, not to mention the out-of-sight Clausing original parts. The next step will be to do the full two-step pulley, but having just the one step is not much of a drawback. Also would like to do one in steel but don't have any suitable stock at the moment. I do have the original countershaft pulley and will measure that for you. >dimensions of both the motor pulley (M429) and countershaft pulley (M427) The original cast countershaft pulley ODs are: small step 3.20 large step 4.46 Measurements made with a dial caliper and rounded to the nearest .01 inch. Hank ------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:19:54 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: pulley dimensions > > My 618 also lacked the motor pulley and I just finished > > turning a single step aluminum pulley for it. > > The next step will be to do the full two-step pulley, > > but having just the one step is not much of a drawback. Did you > > turn the larger step of the motor in your single groove project? Betsy: It was the smaller for two reasons: 1. I didn't have round stock big enough to do the 3.2 inch diameter (or flat stock thick enough to do the width). 2. The speeds available on the high side, 975 to 3050 RPM, are very fast; the top two of which are too fast for just about any metal turning situation. Due to being only being able to obtain locally a motor belt somewhat shorter than ideal, I match up the single motor pulley diameter to the *smaller* countershaft step (not the standard setup). This gives a slightly higher speed range without backgear of 480 - 1500, instead of 380 - 1185. I haven't yet used anything faster than the two lowest speeds (480 and 680) except of course when the backgear is engaged. This is why I don't miss the second countershaft range too much. Some may be wondering how I turned a motor pulley on a lathe already missing a motor pulley. :) It may sound awful, but what I did to get going was to use an ordinary 4L solid steel pulley and filled in one side of the v groove with some 2 part epoxy compound. It was shaped roughly by eye before setting to approximate the correct width and angle of the v groove of the smaller 3L pulleys with a little extra allowed to carve off later. After the epoxy hardened, I fastened the pulley to a shaft and chucked that in a drillpress. With the press spinning a file was used to shave down and smooth up the rough shape of the epoxy fill so that a pretty nice profile was obtained. That makeshift pulley has been used for several months with no noticeable wear to the epoxy. The new aluminum pulley does seem to run a little quieter. Will try to borrow a cheap digital camera to see if it can do some closeups of these pulleys. Hank ------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 05:04:49 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: More on pulley dimensions I just saw a posting on the Atlas_Craftsman board about the pulleys for the Atlas Mill. There was a reference to a site with specific pulley dimensions for the M6-80 (4 step pulley) and M6-428 (motor pulley) for the mill. The M6-80 is the same pulley as the Atlas 618 lathe on the countershaft. While the parts list says the motor pulley is M6-429, mine is an M6-428. Anyway, here's the site: http://www.hillsgun.com/Atlaspulleydimensions.htm Bruno ------- Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:29:53 -0400 From: "Bill Hardin" Subject: RE: where can I find a drive pulley for a 109?? The motor step pulley, supplied with all Craftsman 109 lathes, is almost non-existent today. It was poorly designed, having an extremely thin wall. Easily broken, and probably even easier to misplace as time went by, there seems to be very few of them today. Using that pulley allowed the selection of only 6 speeds for the spindle, and those speeds required the use of the back gear. In two years, I have only been able to find three motor pulleys, and only one of those is usable. I am an avid advocate of going to an electronic speed control to replace this pulley. It gives infinite control of the speed, and probably isn't much more expensive than acquiring a pulley. There are no pulleys in current production of the same diameter and belt. You will find a discussion of the speed control on my web site (Hints & Tips), allowing installation of this system for less than $100. Good luck Bill Hardin http://www.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman 109 Lathe Support ------- Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:16:25 -0700 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: where can I find a drive pulley for a 109?? Probably the best source for the pulley is to make one yourself. Interestingly easy project for the first time. If you can't find a piece of stock big enough, several plates the width of the individual grooves can be pinned together, making the project even more interesting. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- From: Frank Evan Perdicaro Date: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:52 pm Subject: Alternate pulley for AA 109 > Subject: Re: where can I find a drive pulley for a 109?? My garage sports both a 109 and a 101. The 109 came first; my grandfather got it in the 1970s but never could make it work well -- and he was a lathe operator. When I got the 109 the drive pulley was junk. The internet was just coming up, so I created the first 109 mailing list. Still, I could not find a good solution. Eventually I went to the local "good" hardware store and found a multi-step pulley that actually fit inside the 109 headstock. Then I made a tool to bore the 1/2" ID pulley to the 109 0.55 size and mounted a multi-step pulley on the spindle of the 109. Surplus Center was the source for a gear reduction AC motor, and I made a sliding motor holder so I have a 7 speed drive for the 109 headstock. Total cost was only about $40, including pulley, motor, belt and the drill rod required to make the special cutter. 5 or 6 years have passed. To me this STILL seems like the best solution. It is easy to do, fast, cheap and easy to reverse. I hardly ever use the 109. In fact I just grabbed the motor for use on another project, so I will probably use it even less. ------- Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 08:04:32 -0000 From: "Chris Allred" Subject: Looking for parts I have an Atlas-Craftsman 12x24 (101-27430) lathe and am looking for some parts. I need the motor pulley (9-428) and the countershaft pulley that the motor pulley belt runs to (9-427). The side of mine broke and it's out of balance so it vibrates badly. I also noticed that in the catalog it shows the motor pulley having 2 grooves where the pulley on my machine has only 1 groove on each pulley, motor and countershaft. I can't tell but does the countershaft pulley have 2 grooves as well? The picture in the catalog is bad, I assume it's to give you the full range of speeds? Anyway if you happen to have the parts around please let me know. Thanks in advance. Chris ------- Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:03:26 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Looking for parts As you suspect your lathe originally had a pair of duplex pulleys. If you can live with limited speed range just measure the shaft and go to your local hardware or industrial supplier and buy a pulley(s) that meet your needs. Probably will get change back from $20 bill. If you are interested in duplex pulley ask if they have or can order something that will approximate original sizes...will cost more. I would recommend die cast zinc or aluminum alloy pulley over cast iron because of weight and inertia. If you want original you can (or could) order from Clausing Atlas. You can always just make a duplex pulley meets your needs (using a couple of hardware store pulleys to run lathe) from either a pair of stock pulleys or from stock. I considered all the above before I ordered a duplex pulley from Clausing Atlas. It was pricy, but, the lathe was worth it and I regret it not. The original zinc die cast large duplex pulley on my lathe disintegrated from just setting in basement of prior owner for 40+ years unused. Louis ------- Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:23:43 -0000 From: "Chris Allred" Subject: Re: Looking for parts Louis, thanks for the info! I looking on www.partsdirect but the prices were pretty outragous. It was around $300 for both of the pulleys. I will take a trip to the hardware store and see what I can find. I might also build my own but am not sure what material to make it out of. I could use steel but what about aluminum? It would be faster and easier to turn. Any ideas? Chris p.s. By the way where could I find the specs for the size of both of the pulleys? ------- Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:10:58 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Looking for parts Problem I found with making my own was sourcing a large piece of aluminum. I did not think of wandering down to my friendly local metal recycler (formerly known as "the junkyard".) You would not have to make the entire pulley if you took some off the shelf pulleys and shaved the hubs and rims so they would fit in the available room on shafts. That would save a lot of time and effort. When I got pulley from Clausing Atlas it was about $100 and change...apparently they have gone up. Louis ------- Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:19:56 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: pulley groove "barrmust1" wrote: >i am going to make a pulley and dont know how to cut the groove in it. i >need a round groove in it, not a v groove. what type of attachment or bit >would i use? it will be in a aluminum pulley and needs to be 1 in wide by >.5 in deep. any help would be appreciated. thanks Russ See if you can set up a 1/4" radius arc with a standard pointed toolbit on the compound. Pivot of the compound to cut the groove. You may have to make a special toolholder. An alternative is a pair of toolbits ground to a 1/4" radius, one LH, one RH, go in 1/2" with a parting toolbit, & then cut the groove in several passes for each side. Another alternative is to cut a regular V groove. Round belts work with these, too. Mert MertBakerx~xxverizon.net ------- Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 09:58:55 -0600 From: xlch58x~xxswbell.net Subject: Re: pulley groove Mert, have you ever done this on something as small as 1/4" radius? I have done it with larger radius, but .25 would be tough for me. Personally I would recommend roughing it with a sharp 1/4" v tip tool and then use a form tool to smooth it out with a light cut at high speed. The form tool is simply a 1/4" inch bit ground to the radius desired and relieved on the front to clear the work. Given that the tool would have no rake, it might tend to chatter, hence the high speed light cut. Twist some sandpaper up into a tube to polish it out and remove tooling marks. You might also get away with cleaning it up with a chainsaw file prior to the paper. Charles P.S. Actually just re read the original post. Looks like he needs at least a 1/2" radius if the groove is 1" wide, could be more since he doesn't spec radius. Guy Lautard had written up a method of cutting arcs (balls actually) using a formula and the ordinary dials on a lathe. He basically approximated the arc with a series of concentric cuts and then smoothed it up with a file and sandpaper. ------- Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:14:42 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: pulley groove Only times I've done this small a radius was as you say with a toolbit ground to fit. These were on Luger barrels to cut the radius from the barrel taper to the breech shoulder. No problem with chatter, and even tho' it was on a DB Unimat (only lathe I had at the time), I had no chatter problems. Mert ------- Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:33:15 -0800 From: William Abernathy Subject: Re: pulley groove I did this by creating a 1/2" radius tool and toolholder. I made the toolholder from a chunk of steel milled to fit into the turret post on my Atlas 10". After milling this to height, I drilled and tapped it to hold the improvised radius tool. I also provided support and relief for the radius tool up to 1/2 its diameter, as a half-circle (1/4" depth) was all that my plan called for. The radius tool itself was a slice of 1/2" drill rod that I faced, cut in a top relief and heel, through-drilled, parted, then hardened. I used too shallow a top relief for an aluminum cutter and got a lot of high-pitched chatter from the tool, but it was a functional cutter nonetheless. I probably would have gotten less complaint by roughing out the groove with a conventional bit and using the radius tool to finish it. William A. ------- Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 23:24:19 -0000 From: "russenc" Subject: Re: pulley groove Russ, if you would like to try what charles said take a look at this site http://www.geocities.com/mklotz.geo/ Marv Klotz has a DOS program called ballcut.zip that will give you a printable schedule of cuts to take along with a lot of other useful programs on his site. Russ ------- Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:36:38 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: 618 Parts/Specs ? & Intro A dimensioned motor pulley is at: http://www.hillsgun.com/Atlaspulleydimensions.htm What's shown is a M6-428 from an Atlas milling machine, but it's the same as your atlas lathe motor pulley. The motor and countershaft bracket layout is at: http://www.atlas-press.com/tb_6mounting.htm There are pile of messages pertaining to belt length and pulleys at the yahoogroup set up for just Atlas 618 (and the Craftsman 101 version of the 618) at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas618lathe/ We like to invite you and all the other recent 618 owners on A-C to check the 618 group out. If you do join you can see a shop made single step 618 motor pulley in our photo section. We have plenty of room for files, and photos of your Atlas 618 lathes and projects, so if you do have some nice photos that you'd like to share we're looking for uploads. Hank atlas618lathe list owner ------- Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 04:52:53 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: question about belt suppliers [atlas618lathe group] > another question about the 618, I've had two of them, and put new > belts on both, one thing I've always been curious about though > is that the belts don't sit very deeply into the V's, they seem to > sit higher than normal matching pulleys/belts, [snip] > on all other belts I deal with, cars, drill presses, mowers, etc, > the top of the belt sits just about flush with the top rails on > the pulley when it's wrapped correctly, on the 618, with the 3L belt > the belt is proud of pulley by about an 8th of its thickness, not > flush, and actually seems to touch the other pulleys. merc. I noticed this too. Especially when I turned a pulley for the motor. Going by the industry specs for the pulley groove I came up with a belt that almost, but not quite, sat flush. Made the groove just a little wider to make it perfectly flush because it looked nice and I couldn't think of any drawback to having it sit all the way in the groove thus using the entire thickness of the belt to transfer power. A few weeks ago taking the cowl off a snowthrower it turned out that this machine uses a 3L belt to drive the blade. I think that belt also sat high in the groove, but not by too much. The headstock 4-step pulley is where this is carried to an extreme if you ever look at it. Some of those "downside" flanges are really way too small. Hank ------- Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:04:48 -0000 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: Belt Size Question >> Do the measurements of the length and the width of the belt and see >> what the autoparts store has. A lot of us are going to link belts as >> you don't have to disassemble the lathe to install them due to their >> builtup nature. Bob May > I'm curious, what type of link belt have you had luck with? I tried > some of the high-end orange stuff, but it was far too deep and stiff to > wrap around the pullies with normal tension. I ended up putting mine > back together with regular rubberized cloth V-belts. GTO(John) I used the not-so-high-end green stuff and had the same thoughts when I first put them on. Since so many in this group had raved about them, I left it on to break them in. Glad I did. They are smoother, fit just right, and don't slip under reasonably heavy loads. Worth the dough. ------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:07:01 EST From: jmartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: vibration 1/15/06, mildot5mex~xxyahoo.com writes: > thank you for the advise, have you ever thought about making your own > pulley? it seems they are weak in the sense that they are thin. maybe > some new ones are in order anyway, thanks again The pulleys are weak, but they are adequate to transmit all the power you'll ever need for these lathes. You could mount a 2 horse motor and heavy cast iron pulleys and set it to take a great big blue chip - and you'd probably break something. The step pulleys in the final drive - countershaft to headstock - generally have the highest belt loads on them, and there's not much room to fit larger ones in. Unless you omit one of the steps. John Martin ------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:16:35 -0800 (PST) From: markus fitz Subject: Re: vibration Thanks, I agree with not wanting to go larger, just make some nice aluminum ones, same dimension just more solid. I really like the machine since it also has sentimental value and I am trying to get the most out of it. Thanks for your advise, it is always appreciated. ------- Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:21:23 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: I finally went red [atlas618lathe] After three years with my 618, I was feeling like it was getting time to get rid of that spindle belt. It may have been the original for all I know, but it was starting to show signs of fraying, not to mention its oddly out of round appearance. I picked up some Fenner Power-Twist (at McMaster-Carr) and did my first day of turning with it today. Yes, it really does improve the vibration a lot. I wish I'd done it earlier. FYI, the 3/8" Fenner belt is part number 6173K36 on page 942. It's sold by the foot at $6.18 per. Bruno ------- [atlas_craftsman] Craftsman 12" 101 07383 countershaft 4 step broken pulley Posted by: "alvarotesser" alvarotesserx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue May 13, 2008 6:15 pm ((PDT)) I've just posted some pictures of a counter shaft 4 step broken pulley that gave up, on my Craftsman 12" lathe # 101 07383. To view search "4 Step Broken Pulley". If anyone knows a good source to buy one please let me know Thank you Cheers, Al ------- Re: Craftsman 12" 101 07383 countershaft 4 step broken pulley Posted by: "TCHarex~xxaol.com" TCHarex~xxaol.com Date: Tue May 13, 2008 9:16 pm ((PDT)) Well My ! I have a four step pulley on a late model atlas six inch where the set screw is now standing proud of the base of the V- groove because of wear. It is only a matter of time before it fails so I am now more careful to put the guard back before it fails. A few weeks ago a lot of people were adamant that that stuff does not fail and one asked for pictures. Finally, one humorist who was probably very tired of the argument suggested that that stuff tastes just like chicken! Well, now we have a pic of one failure and my pulley will soon follow. So were ours were made out of liverwurst? Tom ------- Re: Craftsman 12" 101 07383 countershaft 4 step broken pulley Posted by: "alvarotesser" alvarotesserx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue May 13, 2008 10:57 pm ((PDT)) On May 13, 2008, indianfourrider wrote: > Fenner strongly recommends steel sheaves ... not cast iron nor > aluminum, and certainly not "pot metal". Excellent point about the Fenner Belts and worth to watch 'em however, on my case, I've just installed the Fenner belts about 3-4 weeks ago and, since my lathe still requires some work/parts, total time, with these belts, was less than 30 minutes at the most. I do like the Fenners so I believe that the "pot metal" not being the best material and also, I might have gotten carried away as far as the belt tension. Bad combination for sure! Al ------- Re: Craftsman 12" 101 07383 countershaft 4 step broken pulley Posted by: "Peter" peterh5322x~xxrattlebrain.com Date: Wed May 14, 2008 2:57 am ((PDT)) There are machines out there, not necessarily Atlas, which apply tension to the back of the belt, rather than moving the sheaves apart, slightly, to apply tension. These machines need to have their tensioners, too, replaced with steel. For those cases, it makes sense to retain the A-belt form ... smooth on the Vee and smooth on the back ... not withstanding the convenience of linked-belting. ------- Re: Craftsman 12" 101 07383 countershaft 4 step broken pulley Posted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.com Date: Wed May 14, 2008 9:33 am ((PDT)) > Fenner strongly recommends steel sheaves ... not cast iron nor > aluminum, and certainly not "pot metal" This is not true. I wrote Fenner about this very issue in 2006, and their engineer made no such recommendation. Their response to my query is copied below. William A. +++ Hi William .. as you can see Naseem has forwarded me your e-mail for handling and response. Over the years we have sold hundreds of thousands of feet of our PowerTwist Plus belting. It seems about every 2 years or so your question comes up where someone believes our PT+ belting wears out pulleys faster versus the traditional black endless rubber type v-belt. We have never been able to substantiate this claim although we have not done any exhaustive tests to prove it one way or the other. We have a lot of v-belt driven equipment in-house that has had our PT+ belting on for years and we have not seen any accelerated pulley groove wear. Many of these drives run at least 10-16 hours/day. It's a known fact that over time all pulley grooves will wear from use regardless of what type of v-belt runs in them. How quick the pulley wears depends on several factors; 1) the environment .. highly abrasive ones are sure to promote more rapid wear versus clean ones, 2) pulley material ... steel and cast iron pulleys will not wear as fast as softer material aluminum or zinc die cast type pulleys. Many manufacturers have gone to aluminum or zinc die cast in an effort to reduce cost and weight. 3) installation/maintenance ... misaligned and poorly tensioned belts will slip and enter and exit the pulley groove at an angle promoting pulley wear. 4) hours of service ... a drive that may get used 3 to 5 hours/week will have pulleys, regardless of material, that last much longer versus ones that operate 5000 to 8000 hours/year. Hope this answers your question. Warren S. Palmer, Application Engineer Industrial Products ------- Re: Craftsman 12" 101 07383 countershaft 4 step broken pulley Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Wed May 14, 2008 10:16 am ((PDT)) alvarotesser wrote: > I've just posted some pictures of a counter shaft 4 step broken pulley Wow! The amount of metal left in the bottom of the #3 pulley groove is amazingly thin. I suspect somebody allowed the belt to wear down until it was bottoming in the groove, and it wore down the bottom until it could no longer support the rest of the pulley. Jon ------- Re: Craftsman 12" 101 07383 countershaft 4 step broken ... Posted by: "TCHarex~xxaol.com" TCHarex~xxaol.com Date: Tue May 13, 2008 11:38 pm ((PDT)) Hi folks: My atlas six inch that has the worn pulley to the point that its set screw stands above the base of the V belt has a distinction. It has never seen a Fenner belt and neither has its owner. Tom ------- Re: Craftsman 12" 101 07383 countershaft 4 step broken ... Posted by: "NuritheTurkx~xxaol.com" Date: Wed May 14, 2008 11:09 am ((PDT)) At the risk of starting something, I have an opinion based on experience from some years in the power transmission sales business. That sheave appears to have failed at the part that was not supported by the spokes. I wonder if the belt tension was excessive. This would cause the belt to apply excessive pressure on the sides of the groove. In time, this would cause the fracture of the bottom of the groove. Fenner belts are great but seem to afford less traction and many folks tighten them a little more than necessary. The same fracture can come from using too wide/large a belt. Turk ------- Re: Craftsman 12" 101 07383 countershaft 4 step broken ... Posted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.com Date: Wed May 14, 2008 11:40 am ((PDT)) > ...many folks tighten them a little more than necessary. The same > fracture can come from using too wide/large a belt. Turk This was my guess as well. For a year or so, I had a lot of trouble with the countershaft flopping forward under load. Others (you know who you are) have described this problem as well. After developing a few new muscles in my left forearm by holding the engagement lever back while working (and experimenting with belt tension, lots), I finally wised up and looked at the countershaft pivot. All I needed to do was add a second washer in behind the pivot bolt, and this provided enough tension/friction to keep the belt happily engaged. I hope that this fix helps others avoid what may well have caused this failure. William A. ------- I need a motor pulley for my 618 [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.com Date: Mon Jun 2, 2008 8:42 am ((PDT)) Can anyone tell me a good source for a correct motor pulley for my 618? I've got to believe we can find them cheaper then the $98 Clausing is asking. Thanks. Jonathan ------- Re: I need a motor pulley for my 618 Posted by: "Ron Shaw" RS0255x~xxaol.com Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 8:01 pm ((PDT)) The reason Clausing can ask, and presumably get, $98 for their two- groove pulley is that there are no other sources for a pulley of the same dimensions. The groove spacing and the groove width of the Atlas/Craftsman/Clausing pulley is not standard 3L. A standard 3L belt will fit well enough to work, but the top width is wider that the A/C/C part, which is why it rides higher in the groove. I had/have the same problem and ended up using a 3-groove std. 3L pulley, with diameters of 1.5/2.5/3.5, as I recall. You could make one, but then you would have to have one to measure to begin with. Catch-22, as they say. RonS. ------- Re: I need a motor pulley for my 618 Posted by: "ron Pat" ronpat0471x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 8:41 pm ((PDT)) There have been several people on ebay lately making new motor pulleys. countershaft pulleys, half nuts and stuff like that for about half the price that Blue Ridge, etc. sells them for. ------- Re: Atlas/Craftsman 101.21400 6" Lathe [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:56 pm ((PDT)) In a message dated 7/31/09, davidmakseynx~xxyahoo.com writes: > Hello all! I have been working on the re-build of this lathe for a while and I have reached an impass. When I got it it had no motor or countershaft drive pulleys. I have worked out the possible pulley diameters from the speed chart in the manual and have determined that in the 'B' position which is the fast speed the motor should have a 4" and the countershaft a 4.5" pulley. In the 'A' position which is the slow speed the motor should have a 2" and the countershaft a 5" pulley. This is based on a 1725 RPM motor. How close did I come? Thanks, Dave Not sure which model the 101.21400 is, but I've got an Atlas/Craftsman 6" old style - round headstock cover, as opposed to the later square blue one. The sizes you came up with give about the right ratios, but you won't like the results. Mine are: low speed: motor 1.73", jackshaft 4.48" high speed: motor 3.20", jackshaft 3.20" So, if the ratios are about right, why won't you like the sizes you came up with? Simple. You want the pulley sizes to be such that, given the spacing of the motor and jackshaft pulleys and the ratios wanted, one belt length will suffice. Not knowing how you plan to space the motor and jackshaft -- it does make a difference -- a quick look at your sizes indicates that your fast speed belt will have to be quite a bit longer than your slow speed belt. Don't worry too much about trying to hit the published Atlas speeds. There is nothing magic about them. John Martin ------- FUBAR Courtershaft Pulley [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "indianfourrider" indianfourriderx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Aug 1, 2009 9:45 am ((PDT)) Friends, (Long post - get a fresh cup of coffee!) My earlier jubilation was, it seems, premature. I had believed that I had finally trued-up the large 2-sheave countershaft pulley since on high speed the wobble had all but disappeared. Next day, however, I switched over to low speed. Serious wobble now at 685 rpm where before it had not even been noticable. It was then I discovered that the original countershaft itself was evidently slightly bent at the motor end. Made a new one AND new bushings. (Had fun cutting the key seat without a proper cutter, but that's another story...) Chucked a new piece of 3/4" round bar and checked it - dead nuts. Mounted the pulley and, well, proceeded to run through my extensive catalog of profanity - in several languages, living and dead. Mounted the pulley in the 4-jaw, small side in, dead flat against the jaws and indicated it in AGAIN. Rebored and made yet a third new bushing, which I bored to size in the pulley, still in the 4-jaw. Put the aforementioned piece of 3/4 in another chuck, mounted the pulley and, back to the lexicon! The small side, which had been in the 4-jaw now had a serious wobble and the large side -- that had previously indicated within .0005 -- was also off. Next day after cooling off, I mounted pulley on the new shaft between centers and started where I suppose I should have in the first place -- indicating the running surfaces on both sheaves. I had to do it several times before I believed the results. The sheaves were neither concentric nor axially true. So each time I rebushed it, it was only true to the sheave in the chuck in that exact position! The only option left besides shelling out $200 for a new one or taking a chance on evilbay was to re-machine the whole bloody thing. Instant headache. The large sheave is 11" and won't clear the carriage. I needed either to make offset toolholders or find a way to offset the compound. After a good night's sleep it occurred to me that my radius cutting attachment would offset the compound and allow me to get the tool where it needed to be. The actual machining verified what the indicator had shown. The high/low spots did not match and both sheaves were eccentric to the axis at different points! At the risk of opening a sensitive topic, this project also gave me something to dislike about Zamac, with which I had heretofore no quarrel. One word - SWARF! Much worse, IMHO, than cast iron! My fan even on low blew it everywhere and into everything. Results - SUCCESS at all speeds! I have posted a couple of pictures of the set-up in an album bearing the acronym used in the title of this post. You'll also see my Appalachian- engineered swarf control device. Sorry, no duct tape... Thanks for the opportunity to vent! Jim ------- Re: FUBAR Courtershaft Pulley Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Sat Aug 1, 2009 10:00 am ((PDT)) Been there, done that, have the T-shirt. ;) Re-sleeved mine 3 times. It still has wobble. Yours is one of the better ones with the 3 holes. Mine has 3 arced spokes. I would get it perfect, mount on countershaft and it was fine. Next day it wobbled. Turns out it is real temperature sensitive. Change temp and the hub twists. Mine was the same, the hub and sides were not aligned with the belt grooves. I mounted it in a 4-jaw and centered it on the grooves. Then turned the hub and all faces. Much better. Mine had 23 holes drilled to balance. I guess they figure that is easier than centering it properly before machining it ;) I had to re-balance mine. I used a short 3/4" shaft between centers. Drilled a center countersink on each end. Then put on pulley. I could get a fairly good balance. I had to drill 20 holes on the opposite side to where the existing ones were. Still, I went back to a generic single 8" pulley. I could never get the stock one to remain straight. As I have a VFD, I don't need the double pulley setup (and only have a single, variable motor pulley anyway). One of these days, I'll admit defeat and throw the old one out. ;) Scott G. Henion Consultant Stone Mountain, GA SHDesigns http://www.shdesigns.org ------- motor pulley for 12" lathe [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.com Date: Sun Mar 7, 2010 2:05 pm ((PST)) For any of you who are interested, there is a motor pulley for a 12" Atlas Craftsman lathe just listed on Ebay. Highway robbery! Step pulleys aren't cheap but that is ludicrous. > Thanks for the info. Bill S. I simply mounted the two individual pulleys back to back on the shaft. Total cost maybe $15? ------- Re: motor pulley for 12" lathe Posted by: "Rexarino" rexarinox~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Mar 7, 2010 9:10 pm ((PST)) Zinc die cast pulleys from Wholesale tool cost $4.65 for a 2" and $12.85 for a 4.5". Put the 2" on the motor to run the lathe while you cut the hub off the 4" pulley. Put both on a stubby piece of shaft of proper diameter, drill holes through the part without a groove or setscrew for pins made from 16 penny nails and glue the pins in place. Voila, motor pulley for $18 plus postage. OR Buy a solid double pulley with one side of 4.5" diameter and chuck it and turn the other pulley to 2" -- it's a metal lathe -- for making things like pulleys! Buy the above mentioned 2" pulley to run the lathe while you make the new one. ------- Re: motor pulley for 12" lathe Posted by: "ahz" ahzx~xxinsightbb.com Date: Sun Mar 7, 2010 9:16 pm ((PST)) Or, get a 3ph motor, a VFD, and any pulley that trips your trigger, and don't look back. ------- Re: motor pulley for 12" lathe Posted by: "dougrl3x~xxaol.com" Date: Mon Mar 8, 2010 7:13 am ((PST)) Here is a guy who made his own and then machined them on the lathe, so, if you are lucky enough to have the resources to cast your own, then machine them down, there you go! A lot of work, but an interesting read and how-to, be sure to read each part / link at the bottom of the page. http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/castingpulleys1.html Doug ------- Re: motor pulley for 12" lathe Posted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Mon Mar 8, 2010 7:29 am ((PST)) Here is an alternate way to make your own pulley: http://rick.sparber.org/Articles/CD/CDM/pma.pdf Rick ------- Re: motor pulley for 12" lathe Posted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.com Date: Mon Mar 8, 2010 8:44 am ((PST)) The problem with the pulley for the 12" lathe is there are few if any options for fit and configuration. If you have the motor belt cover in place you are restricted to about 1 3/8" on the width. The OD of the 2 sheaves is not negotiable if you want to maintain the ratio between the driver and driven pulleys and thereby the ability to change between the two using the same length belt. Now, if you aren't interested in maintaining that ratio or the belt cover, the world is full of options. The VFD with one pulley is one but that costs more than a pulley too. Material for my pulley cost $3 and my time is worthless so, cheap pulley. Besides that, I like using my machine in its original configuration. If I wanted a powerful, rigid, variable speed, modern machine I would get a Monarch 10EE or something and upgrade it. Bill Houston ------- Re: Diesel / vee belts [Min_Int_Comb_Eng] Posted by: "Frank Perri" nyceacres200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:22 pm ((PDT)) "John R" wrote: > Last year I built a 60cc single cyl. diesel engine to my own design which starts easily and ticks over smoothly being controlled by the governor.The fuel I am using is bio diesel ( fish&chip oil). I got a lot of satisfaction from building & it has motivated me to attempt to a vee 4 diesel 260cc, it is about 75% finished. What I need now is for someone to tell me where I can get some small vee belts from. I have seen some (when I did not need them) which I think where about .25 section. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks to any one who may be able to help. John < Hi John, Vee belts that measure 1/4" wide, and 1/8" thick are 2L belts. I bought one, and a spare online for my home made belt drive on my mini mill, from Garage Door Parts Supply in Passaic, N.J. They arrived in a couple of days, $7 something ea. Since I live in N.J.,they were the closest to me I found. At the time, I was still working and dealt with Grainger regularly, but they didn't stock 2L, but could order them. Apparently some door openers use 2L belts. Mine were 13" outer circumference. They had a full range of OD's. Possibly a similar supplier is near your area. I've only completed one single cylinder gas motor so far, working on a second. V-4 diesel sounds interesting, maybe you could post some pics when it's done! Frank ------- Re: Atlas 3996 possible deal [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com" Date: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:42 pm ((PST)) 12/30/2011, ray.waldbaumx~xxyahoo.com writes: >Gary I often wonder the same thing. Examples are the 2-step motor pulleys >for $60-90. Single pulleys mounted back to back look almost the same and >work just as well. > If I were making a living selling parts I'd want to price them so there > would actually be some buyers. Ray, I agree that $60 for a double aluminum pully is 'way too high. And that two single pulleys back to back will work OK on most motor shafts. Most motor shafts are slotted for a square key. So both pulleys would have the key through them and the setscrews in both pulleys would sit on the key, not the shaft. But if somehow one were to lose the double pulley on the countershaft, two singles wouldn't work as the countershafts are cut for woodruff keys. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) ------- Best way to make pulleys shine [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "buickgsx455man" buickgsx455manx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 6, 2012 6:48 pm ((PST)) Whats the best way to clean up the zamak pulleys and gears? I did an experiment with an old gear and I used a phosphate to clean it up. Took all the old grime right off. It reached right into the pores and got all the grease out with little effort. Has anyone ever done that before with good safe results? How about glass beading the pulleys? I want to clean them up and polish them. WHat have you all used with good luck? thanks Bob ------- Re: Best way to make pulleys shine Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Tue Mar 6, 2012 7:00 pm ((PST)) I have had great luck using waterless hand cleaner to remove the grease from the belts. Once the belts are clean, the pulleys clean up with a wipe of a tissue and stay clean. With grease soaked belts, they slip. Rick ------- Re: Best way to make pulleys shine Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Tue Mar 6, 2012 7:24 pm ((PST)) I use glass bead to clean aluminum. Zamak would be similar. The oxide is brittle and shatters when the beads hit but the beads just bounce off the regular metal. It leaves a matt finish though. It took some work to polish up some aluminum, Zamak probably would be a bit easier. Scott G. Henion Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 ------- Re: Best way to make pulleys shine Posted by: "rod" rrowzee1954x~xxhotmail.com Date: Wed Mar 7, 2012 12:43 am ((PST)) blast with walnut shell compound, glass bead is a no no [and in a later message Rod wrote:] never glass bead soft metals since makes it impossible to tig weld if need repairing; use only aluminum oxide or walnut shell media ------- Re: Best way to make pulleys shine Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 6, 2012 9:05 pm ((PST)) I have been using some stuff called "Awesome" or "LA's Totally Awesome" from the .99 Cent store. I think it came from Dollar Tree. I soak the greasiest thing I can find in it, use a nylon parts brush a little, and rinse it off with water. Overnight soaking will bring gears and other Zamac parts out looking like they came right out of their molds. Non corrosive to Zamac and I haven't seen it bother cast iron or brass in any way. It can dry your hands out like any cleaner, but smells ok and is supposedly biodegradable. Absolutely amazing stuff. Dan ------- Re: Best way to make pulleys shine Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Thu Mar 8, 2012 7:53 am ((PST)) They're your parts, so it's your choice, but I wouldn't do anything more to them than degrease with kerosene or a similar cleaner. They weren't meant to be polished, and that's fine with me. In particular, I wouldn't go near them with any of the strong cleaners. Zamak is tricky stuff. It's an alloy of zinc, aluminum, magnesium and copper (copper, in German, begins with a K). Sometimes, lead was added to make it cast better. Maybe even tin. That yours has held up so far is a good sign, but sometimes Zamak -- especially that with lead added -- starts to deteriorate seemingly for no reason. We all know what strong, or even weak, acids can do to most metals. What many people don't realize is that bases can be just as bad. Drain cleaner is nothing more than lye and aluminum pieces. It's a pretty violent reaction, and the aluminum doesn't last long. The strong cleaners are strong bases, which is why they work so well. Even if you rinse off well after using them, there is always the chance that it has penetrated into cracks or grain boundaries. In all likelihood you'll be fine, but with Zamak I'd rather not take the chance. Once it starts to fail, it's gone. John Martin ------- [CORRECT DIRECTION TO INSTALL A LINK BELT ON A MACHINE PULLEY] NOTE TO FILE: The discussion about using, or not using, link belts to replace v-belts turns up regularly in various forums. User actual experience with the link belts has been overwhelmingly positive. It is important that the correct size belt be fitted depending on the width of the pulley's groove; the belt should ride in the upper portion of the pulley's groove and not touch the bottom of the pulley's groove whether it is a link belt or v belt. As for direction of travel for the link belt, you will find a web address to an instructional PDF file from Fenner in the next conversation, which company makes quality belts in several sizes and models; and they show the correct direction for their link belt's installation. On the other hand, many lathes are set up with an optional ability to run in reverse, in which case users have often said there was no problem running the link belt in reverse. As there is a correct installation direction according to Fenner, it would seem wise to install the link belt facing the approved way for the primary forward running of a machine. And enjoy a touch of humour. ------- From: [atlas_craftsman] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: It Works! On 3/15/2012 8:08 PM, Glenn N wrote: > Mine have arrows pointing the direction. They run fine in reverse but > don't have as much grip in reverse. The belts are in tension when under load, which isn't really directional. The key areas that would be a problem is when the links hit the sheave under load, but I think both loading directions are represented no matter which way it turns. Charles ------- Re: It Works! Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:07 pm ((PDT)) Might want to read this if that is what you think... http://www.fennerdrives.com/assets/ptpinstall.pdf ------- Re: It Works! Posted by: "Jay Greer" redwitch1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:32 pm ((PDT)) John, I have two 618's. Both have link belts. They run fine in reverse. Cheers, Jay Greer ------- Re: It Works! Posted by: "Guenther Paul" paulguenterx~xxatt.net Date: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:07 pm ((PDT)) I also have a link belt had it for a long long time. Mine runs fine in reverse. But now the link belts are designed to be directional. I had link belts on some of my other machines that I used in my business for years and they used to be made from leather. All the belts I use have metal pins to hold the links together. I believe the leather link belts were better belts and they did not glaze over on the sides like the synthetic ones. Gp ------- Re: It Works! Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:45 pm ((PDT)) Just like directional tires on your car. It doesn't mean you can't backup :) ------- Re: It Works! Posted by: "cliff" kenx~xxucsp.com Date: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:51 am ((PDT)) Quoting the Fenner instructions about proper belt direction: "Note: Every tenth link is designated with an arrow --> (3L, Z/10, A/4L and B/5L only)." My Easy Solution: leave out every tenth link with the arrow -- it will then work in either direction... ;) The only time this seems to matter for me is on multi-belt drives, where you do want all belts "facing" the same direction, although reversing multi-belt drives seems to cause no problems, so long as all belts are installed the same way. I do suspect that the reversing might cause some problems if the radius of a pulley were very small, but in all the applications I'm using them in (a rather large number of things) reversing never has caused any problems for me -- YMMV. ------- Re: It Works! Posted by: "xlch58x~xxswbell.net" Date: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:21 pm ((PDT)) It is still what I think. I have read the instructions and they are easier to install in the direction indicated, but they will in fact run in both directions without damage to the belt or the sheave. They may produce more noise if run backwards. I have verified this information with Fenner directly. My application at the time required the belts to be run in both directions. Charles ------- Re: It Works! Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:03 pm ((PDT)) And as I said ... just like directional tires. They have a preference for direction. I run mine backwards now and then too, in fact I discovered that I had reinstalled one of my belts backwards and ran my lathe that way for years. I didn't notice any difference. But just like directional tires you probably won't notice they are wrong until you approach the limits of the design. At least with your lathe you won't run off the road :) ------- Re: Countershaft Pulley Removal [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Mon Apr 2, 2012 11:59 am ((PDT)) On 4/2/2012, blah wrote: > I have a Craftsman 101.07403 that I am restoring and I have one last part to remove which is the countershaft pulley. I had thought it was as simple as back out the set screw and slide the pulley off but it will not budge. Any ideas? < This is the 2-step pulley? I think there is a recess on the shaft, so the set screw will have to be out more than just loose. Mine took some wrangling to get off. > Also, my pulley has two broken spokes. I need to repair or replace. > Anybody got one they want to sell or any ideas if this can be repaired? They are expensive off ebay. You could get a single pulley, mid-size between the two. They are Zamak and can't be repaired easily. I have brazed and TIG'ed Zamak and each time it took several tries. If your pulley is broken, probably the countershaft is bent (mine was). I made another coutershaft out of 3/4" stock. Only difficult part was cutting the woodruff key slot. I did that with a die grinder and a grinding wheel the right size. If you make another countershaft (or pick one up) you can cut the other one in half to get it out. Scott G. Henion Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 ------- Re: Countershaft Pulley Removal Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Mon Apr 2, 2012 12:03 pm ((PDT)) Check to make sure that there is not a second set screw in the hole. It's pretty common to use a second one to keep the first from backing out. John Martin ------- Re: New 101-07301 owner with a few questions [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Leo Reed" lpreedzonex~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:29 pm ((PDT)) n1ltv on 4/10/2012 wrote: >> Also looking for the original 2 step motor pulley. Clausing's >> price is a bit high. Hank wrote: > Having one or more of those pulleys missing happens a lot. You can make your own or switch to a pair of the more common 1/2 inch belt pulleys. I made my own single step motor pulley and so far haven't missed having the complete two step arrangement. See photos section of atlas618lathe: "Pulley--homemade for lathe motor" "Frank's 618" (first picture in set shows 1/2" pulley drive) < Motor pulley...I've have found little use for the larger step on mine. Unless you intend to do wood working, (in my opinion) the higher speeds are not needed. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following conversation relates to a fairly common problem when a lathe is acquired that does not have an original pulley, or it is damaged. ------- Re: First post, soapbox introduction etc. [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:11 pm ((PST)) > Do you know what the pulleys/sheaves on the motor should be? I believe the sheaves on the motor are not original. Here is the reason why: the countershaft has a 2 step pulley on it, which is belted to the motor. The motor has a 4 step pulley on it. when I go to chance the speed of the motor-countershaft, the ratios of the sheaves do not correlate and thusly, the belt is only good in the pulley combo I received it in. Julian < Julian, The motor pulley is 2-step. There is a machining drawing of a repro pulley in the files section. Robert ------- Re: First post, soapbox introduction etc. Posted by: "julianworks2" julian.p.67x~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:13 am ((PST)) Thank you. I found it. Given my level of experience (none) would it be more wise for me to try to find somewhere I can buy this pully rather than try to make it, even though having a lathe gives you this ability. ------- Re: First post, soapbox introduction etc. Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:37 am ((PST)) Julian, Personally, I'd first try to locate an original that I could afford. But that's up to you. If you know how your machine works and have practiced a little on turning and facing in similar materials, I don't see any reason why you couldn't make it. There are only two operations that your lathe with a little common tooling won't be equipped to do. One is cutting off the chunk of aluminum from the longer piece you will probably have to buy unless you happen to find a piece that's just right. For that you need a metal cutoff bandsaw but if you can swing the saw long enough you can cut it off by hand. The other is broaching the keyway. I happen to have a broach set but that's a pretty expensive thing to buy just for one keyway. There are instructions (maybe more than one set) in the group's Files or in the atlas_craftsman_projects group's Files (the latter is an associated group you can/should join) for making a jig to do single-tooth broaching on the lathe. But that will take time and materials, too. Robert ------- NOTE TO FILE: I don't know how it happens but for several weeks most every message from Carvel from South Africa has the subject and identification missing. A mystery. If you search for "Carvel" in some of the files here you can find his full email address. Or write a note to him in the group. (no subject) Posted by: "(no author)" (no email address) Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:16 am ((PST)) Julian, I would agree with Robert that it would be nice to find an original - keep an eye on E**y etc. Alternatively depending on how long your motor shaft is you might get away with two pulleys of the right size face-to-face. Lastly I found that for my applications I rarely used the high speed ratio on the countershaft, and used my lathe for years with just a single pulley working onto the larger diameter part of the countershaft pulley , Regards, Carvel ------- Re: First post, soapbox introduction etc. Posted by: "julianworks2" julian.p.67x~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:00 pm ((PST)) This is exactly what intrigued me to begin with when I got interested in getting a lathe. You can make your own parts and tools! I am really considering making my own, but am not too sure if I am equipped with the skill yet. Can you file a keyway easily enough in aluminum? I'm not keen on the idea of how much those 2 step pulleys cost second hand. $50-60 seems outrageous. I do like the idea of 2 separate pulleys that I can mount on the motor shaft. The other alternative I thought of is if the current pulley that is mounted on the motor, which appears to be from a drill press could have 2 of the smaller steps parted off thusly making it a 2 step pulley, if the diameters of the 2 steps I would keep are the correct size for the pulley change ratio with belt length etc. As I think about it more now though, I have a Craftsman floor model drill press with a warped 4 step pulley on the motor and I bet the pulley on the lathe would be a great replacement for the one on it. More on the craftsman/atlas drill press later, because that's a whole project in and of itself. thanks for the advice Julian ------- Re: First post, soapbox introduction etc. Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:15 pm ((PST)) Julian, I would classify the short answer to filing a keyway by hand as "No". Or good for a one-time use in a life or death situation only. Remember that the two separate pulleys must have their grooves the same distance apart as the two grooves on the countershaft pulley. And that the pitch diameters must both be correct or at least have the same ratio as the originals (else to switch grooves you will have to move the motor). Although you could probably part off the two largest diameters, if the 4-step pulley is made like most, you'll end up with little or no hub if you remove two from the small end. Putting that pulley on your drill press sounds like a much better idea. Although Atlas did make drill presses and I think that Sears sold them in the early years, the one that you have may or may not have been made by Atlas. Robert D. ------- Re: First post, soapbox introduction etc. Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.com Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:09 pm ((PST)) I made my own pulleys for a 6" lathe, motor half inch with flat. Lathe was sold with no motor or electric back in 1950. If there was a pulley it was long gone when I got the lathe. I made my own 2 pulley combo. Both just as wide as necessary for the belt to be OK with some margin. Both close together. The ratio was not known at the time. (back in the 1970's) I put the countershaft pulley down on paper and drew a circle around it with the smaller side down. Then used a compass to find center. Put my prospect belt around that and the candidate for the larger motor pulley and drew a circle around that. Found center on paper. Flipped the CS pulley large side down and centered on the same center as before. Used the same belt and candidate for the smaller pulley. Smaller pulley was solid steel from old sytle clothes washer. Faced the sides of the pulleys for best hub width for matching width. Trial and error on the lathe for match tension. Then made a temporary mandrel for the shaft and turned both pulleys for very true to shaft and tweaked OD on the smaller pulley for match. Works well. chart ------- Re: First post, soapbox introduction etc. Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:40 pm ((PST)) FWIW ... IF you have skill w/ hand tools, cutting a keyway can be pretty simple...lay out ....multiple hack saw blades on the frame will rough out the keyway (you may need to narrow the blades a tad on the grinder or w/ an angle grinder) work from both sides to keep the groove LEVEL.... finish w/ a "cape " chisel & coarse file..if you do not have a cape chisel, a flat chisel willl work.., or just finish w/ a file ...been there a few times when i had no power tools but a 1/4 in portable drill, once cutting the key way w/ only a cape chisel. if you were not skilled w/ hand tools, you will have attained some after this adventure,,,, precision is not necessary, just so that it goes to place. best wishes doc ------- Re: First post, soapbox introduction etc. Posted by: "Rexarino" rexarinox~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:41 pm ((PST)) If you want to use 2 separate pulleys, use steel pulleys. Make a bushing of steel with an ID that fits the shaft. Make the OD equal to the ID plus the full key thickness (twice the amount that the key protrudes from the shaft). Cut a slot the width of the key in the bushing you just made. Bore the 2 steel pulleys to a tight fit over the bushing. Silver solder the bushing in the pulleys, holding the pulleys in the correct spacing to match the countershaft pulleys. Clean up the slot if it has solder in it. After it cools, drill and tap setscrew holes. Should you wish to turn your own pulleys from aluminum, you can file or cut a keyway if you are careful. Even better is to use Doc's suggestion of stacked hacksaw blades to rough out a key slot slightly under-size, then make a slotting tool that fits in the toolpost to finish to size. Your slotting tool looks like a key with cutting edges on three sides of the end, with slight clearance ground back of the cutting edges. On aluminum, you can likely push the slotting tool and carriage through the pulley by hand if you use very light cuts. It's a good idea to affix a bumper (rubber, wood, thick paper) to the ways so the carriage doesn't smack into the work as it clears the cut. Rex Bosse Portland, Oregon ------- Re: First post, soapbox introduction etc. Posted by: "julianworks2" julian.p.67x~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:21 am ((PST)) Fellas, Thank you all for your input and time. I think I will try to attempt making my own pulley. Once I get my machine aligned. Obviously the broach method of cutting a key way is ideal, however I lack broaches and can't justify purchasing them for an odd job and no regular need for one. I am pretty proficient with hand tools. I am a Mason by trade and moonlight as a carpenter, so working with my hands is what I can do. Learning how to use a machine to tackle tasks such as aiding in the cutting of a key way, such as the lathe is why I am here. Figuring out what exact hand tools and methods will be the trick, but with the right combination of skill and tools on hand, it seems possible at least, perhaps not ideal though, but part of the fun I find is making do with what I have on hand (Within reason). I am not discrediting the right tools for the right job, as I am an avid supporter of this mantra, especially for a paying trade such as masonry for myself. At this point for cutting a keyway in a "hobby" situation, I will try to make do once I get set up properly and am comfortable with my lathe alignment. ("try" emphasized) Julian ------- how do I remove countershaft pulley? [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "trex117x~xxverizon.net" Date: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:26 pm ((PST)) Atlas 10" Th42 I finished the new bearings on the headstock spindle and now I'm moving to the countershaft which isnt turning so well...it is very tight (this is from the flood). I was able to remove the right side (small multiple groove pulley side) earings and collars. I left the pulley alone. Now the left side (large single pulley) has me puzzled. I removed the set screw in the large pulley but there is no movement; does the pulley slide off?? Is there a woodruff key in there? I can't seem to budge the pulley at all and I dont want to break anything. How can I remove the large pulley so I can get at the bearing behind it? thanks ------- Re: how do I remove countershaft pulley? Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:13 pm ((PST)) There definitely should be a key. There could be double setscrews, too, that was a common way to keep pulleys from working loose. The key or pulley hub could have swelled from corrosion from your flood, so it may take penetrating oil or some persuasion to get it to move. Jon ------- Re: how do I remove countershaft pulley? Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:29 pm ((PST)) trex, I assume that you have removed the countershaft proper from the hanger, to which it is attached by four slotted headless set screws. I have one 10F illustrated parts list and unfortunately, as was too common with Atlas drawings of the era, it does not list or show keys and set screws in anything. However, there are probably woodruff keys in both pulleys. You can tell by looking at each pulley hub for a slot. If there is a slot, there is a key. BTW, do you have the illustrated 10F parts list? If not you can download it from the Group's Files section. I think you are saying that you have removed from the right of the countershaft spindle the following parts: grease cup collar washer bearing and race washer collar 4-step pulley collar washer bearing and race washer That should leave nothing on the spindle but the large 2-step pulley and another grease cup. At this point, you can soak the hole that the spindle is in with a good penetrating oil and then remove the spindle from the pulley with a slotted receiver tube and a hydraulic press. However, unless the pulley or the spindle must be replaced, there is nothing to be gained by doing so. I would reinstall the set screws in the large pulley and leave it unddisturbed. Remove the left grease cup and clean the old grease out of the spindle. The drawing of the spindle is not detailed (it is drawn with most of the parts still on it) but I assume, given the grease cups on each end, that it is hollow and is cross-drilled in the center of where each bearing is normally located. If that's the case, clean out the bore and clean out the cross-drilled delivery holes. Clean up and inspect the two roller bearings and races. If they are badly pitted, they will need to be replaced. If they aren't too bad, and if you can free up the roller cages, you can reuse them at least for the time being. They may be a little noisy. I don't know whether or not the ends of the spindle are tapped for grease fittings. If not, I probably would. However, if you still have the two grease cups, the way that you use them is to fill them with grease, press onto the ends of the shaft, remove and repeat. Or you can use a grease gun with a pointed tip. Or if you tapped the holes for grease fittings, use those. To properly fill the spindle with grease and get the air out of it, tape over both cross drilled holes and either using a grease cup or a grease gun, pump or press and refill until grease comes out the far end of the spindle. If you tapped the spindle ends for grease fittings, install one and leave the other out for the filling procedure. Put your thumb or finger over the far end and pump or press one more grease cup load or pump stroke. Remove the tape, cover the far end of the spindle (or install the second grease fitting) and pump or press to confirm grease comes out the cross-drilled holes. Reassemble the countershaft assembly. While sealing off the far end if using the grease cups, press two cup loads of grease into each end of the spindle. Or give each end two strokes of the grease gun. The countershaft should turn freely. Robert D. ------- Re: how do I remove countershaft pulley? Posted by: "Bruce ." freemab222x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:41 am ((PST)) I have never done this but I believe it's been discussed once or twice before -- you might search the archives. Be aware that the pulley is likely to be a zinc alloy -- quite hard but with the unfortunate tendency to age and corrode and grow brittle. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest Penetrating oil might help. If I were to try to remove the pulley from the shaft (WITHOUT first looking it up to find a recommended procedure) I'd fully support the pulley hub with a steel piece then pull it off with a gear puller, the puller impinging ONLY on the steel piece and the shaft -- and not even touching the pulley itself. However, that's off the top of my head and untested. I state it just as a warning so you don't break your pulley like others have before you. ------- Re: how do I remove countershaft pulley? Posted by: "trex117x~xxverizon.net" Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:46 am ((PST)) Hi and thanks for the help. Bruce,,I searched here and found only a couple of questions about countershafts but nothing about how to take it apart. More like bearing questions and the person already took it apart. I have pen. oil soaking now so hopefully that helps. Robert, I looked at the cup end of the pulley for a key slot and didn't see one, the opposite side is blocked by the bearing race so I can't see. The reason I asked is I thought maybe I could turn the pulley now that the set screw is out, and free it up. The grease that is inside the roller bearings (judging from the opposite end and the way the are stiff to turn) has turned very hard. I cleaned the right side and I'm waiting to install it. I read where someone asked if all the bearings come off from the same end, that would be very difficult because I couldn't remove the small pulley either to let the other (left side) bearings pass by. Well, I'm leaving the small pulley on because it doesnt affect anything. Looking at the parts list, on the left, it's pulley #560-060 that is stuck. I now believe it needs to be pressed off but I basically have no tools left so this will be interesting. I'll take another shot at it today. Thanks all. ------- Re: how do I remove countershaft pulley? Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:19 am ((PST)) Trex, OK. I misunderstood what you wrote the first time. The situation is much worse than I thought. Unfortunately, if the grease has hardened as I suspected it had, you are never going to get the spindle cleaned out without removing both bearings. It's hard to say for certain but judging by the drawing in the parts manual, there isn't any space between any of the parts into which you could get a guillotine type puller splitter. And the large pulley hub diameter appears to be about the same as the bearing diameter. If you try to use a mechanical puller on the large pulley, you are almost certain to break it without ever moving the hub. The collars, bearings and washers appear to all be about the same diameter. So nothing to pull on there. I don't know what the face of the large end of the 4-step cone pulley looks like. If it is flat, you could put the whole assembly in a press supported against the flat face and press the spindle through the pulley and right bearing. But it's probably recessed and pressing against the outer rim may break that pulley, depending upon how tightly stuck the pulley and bearing are. What I think I would do is to mechanically clean out the spindle bore. Immerse the whole assembly in penetrating oil for a few days. Clean it off and put it in an oven at about 250F for a few hours. Run cold water through the spindle for about a minute. And then try to strip the parts off of the spindle by pressing the spindle through everything with the stack supported by the large pulley hub. However, I happen to have a suitable hydraulic press sitting about 60 feet from a suitable oven and water hydrant. And my wife is often gone from the house for the morning. You could try building a wood stand to support the assembly on the bearings and using a cheap throw away wood chisel between the 2nd collar from the right and the 2nd washer try to open a gap large enough to get a puller splitter into. Then pull the right bearing off the shaft. And repeat down the shaft. If you go that route, I would still do the soak, heat and cold water treatment. Robert D. ------- Re: how do I remove countershaft pulley? Posted by: "trex117x~xxverizon.net" Date: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:34 am ((PST)) Hi Robert, Exactly!! With that large pulley and the thin "S" arms supporting it, it will definitely break. I just came up from the basement after some more cleaning of the grease hole with a twisted wire, and I may be on to something! I'll be back soon, hopefully with results! ------- looking for Pulley [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: luky13customsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:56 am ((PST)) I have a Craftsman 101.07403 and the outside groove on the Counter shaft pulley is broken. According to the parts PDF it's part # 9-427. Anybody have one laying around?? Ebay seems to be very expensive for it... Just picked up the lathe for $300!! ------- Re: looking for Pulley Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:36 pm ((PST)) Unfortunately, I don't have one available. But to put it bluntly, lathes are usually cheap. Parts and accessories aren't unless you got them with the lathe, mill or shaper. New owners almost always suffer from sticker shock the first time that they go shopping for something for their new machine. That's just the way it is. Prices on Craig's List tend to be somewhat less. But parts and accessories almost never show up there. Robert D. ------- Re: looking for Pulley Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:22 pm ((PST)) Mine wobbles as it warps with temperature changes. I just swapped mine for a single 10" pulley. I can do with just the single speed. Once I got a VFD it became a complete non-issue. You might be able to use two standard pulleys back to back. Scott G. Henion, Stone Mountain, GA Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 Welding pages and homemade welder: http://shdesigns.org/Welding ------- Re: looking for Pulley Posted by: "MacLeod" yahoox~xxthemacleods.net Date: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:18 am ((PST)) I bought a used lathe which had a single sheave pulley instead of the factory option. I needed the 10-428 vs the 9-428 that you're asking about. I believe that the only difference is the diameter of the center hole. The 9-428 would fit a 1/2" drive shaft while the 10-428 fits a 5/8" shaft. Using the plans under files in this site, I made my own from an aluminum block as my first significant lathe project. The plan for the 10-428 is at Files > Drawings, Atlas or Craftsman Machine Parts > Two Step Motor Pulley Drawing.PDF. I didn't have a lot of experience to start with and modified the plan to drill the set screw down through the middle of the smaller sheave wheel as I didn't feel competent to do the angle drilling. Broaching was totally unknown to me. The slot was done using a bench vice as the anvil with a 16 oz hammer. Drill/thread the set-screw hole before broaching so that you're sure that the set screw will have its exit in the slot. It's all very doable in a basic home shop. When I got done, I'd learned a whole lot and have the smoothest turning pulley I've ever seen! Best wishes to you. ------- Atlas pulleys [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: felix8470x~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:36 am ((PST)) Hi. There are quite a few four step pulleys on Atlas lathes. The various models of lathes have headstock pulleys, motor pulleys and countershaft pulleys - all with four steps. Here is my question; Is there a pulley from any Atlas lathe that has the same dimension steps as the headstock pulley on an Atlas 6 inch lathe? I want to use 3/8 link type belts on my 6 inch Atlas, and want to use two of them, since it seems to me a bit undersized to use just one. If I put the correct pulley on the motor (with suitable internal shim) I could use two 3/8 belts. I hope I can find a four step pulley, that when mounted opposite to the headstock pulley, that would allow two belts. Buying another headstock pulley is apparently around 50 dollars right now on eBay, but I hope there is another cheaper type from some other lathe that would work for this trick. ------- Re: Atlas pulleys Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:02 am ((PST)) Felix, The motor pulleys on all Atlas metal-working lathes and mills are 2-step, not 4-step. The 4-step headstock pulley (which includes a gear) used on the Atlas 618 (Craftsman 101.21400) was only used on one other lathe, the Craftsman 101.07301. The 4-step countershaft pulley was the same on the three Atlas built 6" lathes and the early production Atlas M1, MF and MH mills. It was not used on the 9" and larger lathes. And even if it were, there is no reason to assume it would be any cheaper, as it would be the same part number. If you double-belt either a 2-step or a 4-step pulley pair, they will have to be turned the same way around and the ratio will be 1:1. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: Atlas pulleys Posted by: felix8470x~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:50 am ((PST)) Hi. Thanks for prompt and detailed response. If I understand you correctly, the only pulley that would work for this is the countershaft pulley from an Atlas 6 inch lathe (reversed of course, in order to obtain the 1:1 ratio). I have seen countershaft pulleys sell for less than the spindle pulleys, and I hoped to find one on eBay. I have tried this trick before, in a completely different situation, and found that "close" isn't good enough,and unless the pulleys are perfectly matched, the belt and the pulley get hot quick :-) thanks again for your answers Felix ------- Re: Atlas pulleys Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:16 pm ((PST)) You're welcome. Yes, the only pulley (from an Atlas machine) that matches the M6-80 is another M6-80. An M6-79 might have the same groove dimensions but I don't know that for a fact and it would in any case be much more difficult to modify for the use you described. However, if you use a single decent quality V-belt, you don't need two belts. Installing a V-belt on an Atlas spindle is more trouble than installing a link-belt. But you should only have to do it once in your lifetime. Or maybe twice if you are young and if you keep the lathe until you die. Note that you can increase the service life of the V-belt by either turning the machine over about once a week or by slackening the belt tension when the machine is not in use. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: Atlas pulleys Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za Date: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:47 pm ((PST)) Just to confirm what Robert is saying -- I am using the same V -belts on the Atlas 10F that I replaced 15 years ago -- they are fine, but I always slack off the belts with the speed change lever when not in use. Regards, Carvel ------- Re: ML7 Vibration [myfordlathes] Posted by: hopperxlx~xxyahoo.com.au Date: Wed Jun 4, 2014 6:32 am ((PDT)) I had a wobbly countershaft V belt pulley on my M Type, the big one that is driven by the electric motor. It did vibrate, untill I took it off and set it up on the faceplate and bored it out and sleeved it to run nice and true. It made quite a difference. Further smoothing out came from adding a large, heavy cast-iron pulley next to it to get some "flywheel" effect. The other pulley was light aluminum/potmetal. I balanced it by drilling a large hole on the "heavy side" of the extra pulley so the countershaft assembly overall had no heavy spot. Smoothed the old girl out very nicely. Will have to try the T belt next time I need one. ------- DRIVE BELTS [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "JACK SIMS" jack-br549x~xxatt.net Date: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:01 am ((PDT)) Can anyone tell me the approximate length of the spindle drive belts on a Craftsman/Atlas 12x36" cabinet model lathe with the motor underneath, I want to replace them with the link belts. Thanks Jack Sims Carrollton, Texas ------- Re: DRIVE BELTS Posted by: "Art Eckstein" art.ecksteinx~xxgmail.com axtein Date: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:49 am ((PDT)) Jack, According to info I found on the net: Underdrive spindle belts are 43" long (from Sears parts list), crossref? BD3M-34. BELT 1/2X43 Art Country bubba ------- Re: DRIVE BELTS Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:20 am ((PDT)) Jack, The dual spindle belts on a 12" underdrive are A42's. According to several parts lists they are 1/2" x 43". According to Machinery's Handbook the nominal PD length is 43.3". Don't ask me why the Industry Number is A42 and not A43. Maybe that's the nominal length around the ID. The other two belts are 4L360 (Motor) and 4L410 (Countershaft). I wouldn't personally do that to my machine. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Correction Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: DRIVE BELTS Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:10 pm ((PDT)) The OEM dual spindle belts are actually medium duty multiple-belt types, not light duty Fractional HP. The Atlas part number BD3M-34 crosses to industry number A42, not 4L430. I have two new ones here that I am going to put on mine after 30+ years when I get a round tuit. They came from Clausing last year. FWIW, paralleling FHP belts isn't recommended by the belt manufacturers. ------- Re: Correction Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: DRIVE BELTS Posted by: "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" starlight_toolsx~xxtelus.net Date: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:19 pm ((PDT)) Even better is the AX-42 which is a cogged style belt and has a better wrap feature on small diameter pulleys and I find operate smoother than the standard A series belts. I switch all my machines that use standard V-belts to the AX style belts (1/2 crown) or BX if they are 5/8 crown. Walter ------- Re: DRIVE BELTS Posted by: "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" starlight_toolsx~xxtelus.net Date: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:50 am ((PDT)) Belts are measured by pitch diameter, which is different than the outer circumference of the belt. To confuse issues some are measured by the OD not the PD. Walter ------- Re: DRIVE BELTS Posted by: db45acpx~xxyahoo.com db45acp Date: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:23 pm ((PDT)) Hello, Jack, The dual spindle belts on that model are 1/2" x 43". Dimensions: o.c. length 1/2" X 43" top width 1/2" depth 5/16" The original Sears Part Number was BD3M-34. Suitable cross referenced replacement numbers are 4L430 for a standard belt and A41K or 4L430K for a Kevlar belt. If your original belts are broken or worn and need replacing, I would very strongly recommend you buy a new pair of standard or Kevlar belts, and take the time to remove the spindle and replace them, rather than go to the linked belts. It is really not that difficult to do. If you are in a pinch and need the lathe for an emergency they can work, but for long term I believe you'll be more satisfied with the original specified belts. I tried link belts on my own 101.28990 and they were VERY noisy and vibrating, did not grip equally and slipped,(even though I used the same number of links), and did not seem fit the head stock drive pulleys as they needed to. Now I can't say that for the 10 & 12" lathes I have installed them on, as they seemed to run just fine, and actually ran even quieter on those with less vibration. Perhaps because the fine adjustment for tension is easier, or there was only ONE belt turning the spindle, I don't know. But I tried both Harbor Freight Accu-link and Power Twist belts from Rockler, and hated them both on my own cabinet lathe. Maybe another member might have a different experience they can share. Just my opinion through my own experience. Your mileage may vary. Good luck with it. Dan in Nevada ------- Re: DRIVE BELTS Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.net Date: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:16 am ((PDT)) Both Bruce and Robert recomend belts from the 4L series which is consistent w/ my understanding. The "L" stands for "light duty" [which also may suggest less $$$] as well as low horsepower -- i.e the size motors we have on our machines for the most part. The "4" defines the major width. When I was changing belts on another machine, one of my mechanical friends mentioned to stay away from "automotive" belts as they are stiffer and less tolerant of mis-alignment and have a different part number. I suspect that is true. Obviously they will work in a pinch. I have no opinions on the Kevlar option. My muddled thoughts on the matter. L.H. in Arkansas, USA ------- Re: DRIVE BELTS Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:50 am ((PDT)) I decided to try Kevlar belts based on their "stated" ability to withstand higher temperatures, resistance to shock, oil damage and general wear and tear. Kevlar belts are a little stiffer than a standard belt. They are wisely used in heavy agricultural applications such as mowers, chippers, balers and large machinery. I figured they'd last a good while and they cost no more than any other belt of the same size. I'll keep the group posted. Dan ------- Re: DRIVE BELTS Posted by: "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" starlight_toolsx~xxtelus.net Date: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:43 pm ((PDT)) Jack. I have removed a number of lathe spindles over the years, especially with my Logan 9x28. The EX knew it would get me upset when she cut the belt, and did it more times than most guys would have the patience to put up with. It was a relatively painless process, although one which one wanted to go at with a calm collected head on your shoulders and not a job to be rushed. I used the AX style belts as I find they run smoother than the regular belts, and always kept a spare just in case I or something else got her upset. New lathe (14x40 Gear head) is not as hard to change belts on and a lot harder to get knives or scissors at, LOL. Walter ------- Re: Setting up Atlas Craftsman Mk2 part needed [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Thu Jan 1, 2015 10:54 pm ((PST)) The 618 and its Craftsman cousins and twin all used 3L belts. All of the photos I've seen of MK2's show what looks like a smaller belt than the 3L. I'm not certain from whom I got this but my database says that the MK2 Motor (and only) Belt is a 2L290. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: 618 Lathe Chuck & Info Needed [atlas618lathe] Posted by: dandt.theisenx~xxverizon.net thistlesailer45 Date: Mon Jan 5, 2015 7:11 pm ((PST)) Just so happened over last week I turned a V belt pulley for/on my 618 from a 4.75” diameter and 2.5 “ thick chunk of 6061 aluminum using a 4” four jaw chuck with reversed jaws, and where prudent a live center for stabilization. The compound was quite extended and consequently feeds and speeds, when turning to diameter and cutting the V-slot, were very modest, (running in back gear, hand fed with only a few thou DOC). I’ll admit to roughing out the pulley hub on a mill, rotary table, and band saw but it could have been roughed out on the 618 with the four jaw as well (with a lot of patience) by using the live center to press the blank into the chuck. Once the hub was machined I then clamped the four jaw around it to face the other side, turn the diameter and cut half of the V-slot. The bore was drilled and reamed, and then the half done pulley reversed and mounted on a short arbor held in the 4 jaw to cut the second half of the V- slot. So depending on what you are working toward it might be done on a 4" four jaw with a bit of thought but don’t expect to get the job done in a few minutes, think hours. tim ------- Re: 618 Lathe Chuck & Info Needed Posted by: "Dan Duncan" dlduncanx~xxgmail.com teledan73 Date: Mon Jan 5, 2015 9:11 pm ((PST)) This is all very timely for me as I need a spacer that is about 4" in diameter and the 6061 round stock I have is 4.25". I was thinking I wouldn't be able to do it on my little craftsman 6" but it is sounding like I may be able to pull it off using my 4 jaw chuck with the jaws flipped around. I'll try to give it a shot this weekend and make sure I take it real slow. Dan ------- V-Belts [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: effie_1953x~xxyahoo.com effie_1953 Date: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:45 pm ((PDT)) Been looking at various posts for V-Belt sizes to use on the Atlas 12" lathe but come up empty. I do have the two belts with my lathe and they are of different sizes. Can't find any markings on them and will just bring them with me to NAPA. Main question is, which one goes on the headstock? I really don't want to assemble it only to find out I put the wrong belt on it. The manual shows L3-125 for the motor and 57-126 for the spindle. Don't understand what they mean. ------- Re: V-Belts Posted by: "Bruce ." freemab222x~xxgmail.com bakmthiscl Date: Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:59 pm ((PDT)) Use link belts -- the 3/8" width, I believe. Unfortunately, HF only carries the 1/2" width: http://www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.html but you can get it from McM and other vendors: http://www.mcmaster.com/#v-belts/=wfdvhe Bruce NJ ------- Re: V-Belts Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:29 pm ((PDT)) effie, The information is there in the email files but it is scattered over several years and often buried in emails with subjects unrelated to belts. The Atlas spindle belt part number is S7-16, not 57-126. The -126 is just an arbitrary sequence number. Until 1958, the spindle belt part numbers for the lathes, mills and shapers all ended in -126. The S7 means that it was first used on the 7" Shaper. The industry part number is 4L310 or some sources say 4L310W. "4" means nominal belt width of 4/8" or 1/2". The "L" means that it is a fractional HP V-belt (absolutely no idea why they chose to use the letter "L"). The "310" means a nominal outer circumference of 31.0". The motor belt is L3-125. Industry part number is 4L350. 1/2" wide and 35.0" circumference. Tolerance on the cirfcumference is pretty slack, so if your longer belt actually measures 35-3/8" or 34-3/4", it's OK as a motor belt. Avoid link belts except for emergency repairs. They cost more, tend to slip more, and are not rated for reversing. Claims of smoother operation mostly appear to be from comparisons between 70+ year old V-belts with bent pulleys or shafts and brand new link belts and straightened pulleys or shafts. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- How to hold the headstock pulley to ream the bushings? [atlas618lathe] Posted by: curtis.normanx~xxcomcast.net crackerfactory03 Date: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:50 pm ((PDT)) Hi guys. In the process of restoring an old Atlas 618 and I have run into this problem. I pulled the old loose bronze bushings out of the headstock pulley, and now need to machine new ones to fit. The problem is not machining the new bushings, it is how to hold the cone pulley in the chuck without breaking it? My plan is to machine the O.D. of the bushings .001" oversize and then to machine the I.D. of the bushings for a running fit over the spindle. After pressing them into the headstock pulley the bushings will be too tight to fit and will need to be reamed to size or bored open slightly so they will fit the spindle again. The problem, as I said is how to hold the headstock pulley (I have a 9 X 20 Chinese lathe to work on the Atlas parts) in my "big" lathe 4 jaw chuck without breaking or damaging the pulley? I am open to suggestions on other methods of solving this problem. Any suggestions are more than welcome! Curtis ------- Re: How to hold the headstock pulley to ream the bushings? Posted by: garybauer46x~xxyahoo.com garybauer46 Date: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:05 am ((PDT)) Hello Curtis, When I replaced those same bushings I got them from Clausing in Kalamazoo, MI. They were a simple press fit and did not need to be reamed. The old bushings were worn through with no sign of any lube, ever. Gary in AZ ------- Re: How to hold the headstock pulley to ream the bushings? Posted by: egpacex~xxhotmail.com egpace Date: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:09 pm ((PDT)) Curtis, I would go the route "Gary from AZ" took. You shouldn't have to do anything beyond pressing the old bushings out & pressing new ones in. Whatever you decide to do, DO NOT use emory or sand paper on the bore of the bushings. The bushings are porous and will retain grit no matter how well you clean them. Good luck, Ed Pace ------- Re: How to hold the headstock pulley to ream the bushings? Posted by: "John Williams" grain914x~xxsuddenlink.net Date: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:39 am ((PDT)) I would go about this the other way round: machine the ID, then the OD (holding the bushing on a mandrel), and then using permanent "lock tight" to hold it in the pulley. After all, it's a pulley, not the spindle. John W. ------- Re: How to hold the headstock pulley to ream the bushings? Posted by: curtis.normanx~xxcomcast.net crackerfactory03 Date: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:29 pm ((PDT)) Ed, Gary and John; Thanks for your replies. I will call Clausing and ask about the bronze bushings but if they overcharge for those the way they charged me $30 for a simple stamped sheet metal bearing cover, then I would prefer to machine a new pair of bushings myself. Reed Industrial Supply charges about $2 for a bushing slightly oversize in both I.D and O.D. and that might turn out to be a cheaper route to go. But the main concern of my original post was how to hold the Zamac pulley for machining without damaging it -- if it were steel there would be no concern, but zamac is another animal altogether. ------- Re: How to hold the headstock pulley to ream the bushings? Posted by: egpacex~xxhotmail.com egpace Date: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:46 pm ((PDT)) Curtis, That "Oversize" on those bushings will change when you press them in. It's what is called bearing crush and when pressed in should give you the desired final id size. I can pretty much guarantee what you'll get from Clausing will be the dimensionally same as anything from Reed. Check out the link for a better explanation. You may want to draw the bushings into the pulley using threaded rod and plates & nuts on either end. Cheers, Ed Pace PS I buy my Bronze bushings from Amazon, really cheap and they ship free in 2 days with prime. Bushing and Plain Bearings Press or Shrink Fit Design and Application - Engineers Edge http://www.engineersedge.com/bearing/bushing_press_fit.htm ------- Re: How to hold the headstock pulley to ream the bushings? Posted by: "Robert Downs" wa5cabx~xxcomcast.net wa5cab Date: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:54 pm ((PDT)) $30 for a stamped steel part is probably a pretty good retail price for such things today, unless the manufacturer made and sold thousands or millions of them. The spindle pulley bushings are standard size sintered bronze, not brass. Although you can usually successfully bore sintered bronze with a sharp single point boring tool, using a reamer is not recommended. It is best to simply avoid the need to bore it in the first place. On holding the pulley safely, probably Atlas or Clausing did that when they originally made the part in order to hold it for a finishing cut on the bore. One way in which they might have done it would have been to make a collet. You can simulate such a collet by making a short ring. Width a little wider than one groove. Wall thickness maybe 1/4” if made of steel. ID an exact match to the pulley diameter. Then cut the ring into three, 4 or six pieces and hold the pulley with each of the 3, 4 or 6 jaws in the center of a segment. Robert D. ------- Re: How to hold the headstock pulley to ream the bushings? Posted by: zoyagenax~xxyahoo.com gennady_123 Date: Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:35 pm ((PDT)) Robert, Will it work the same way if you cut it just in one spot (like a split sleeve or split bushing? Regards, Gennady ------- Re: How to hold the headstock pulley to ream the bushings? Posted by: "Robert Downs" wa5cabx~xxcomcast.net wa5cab Date: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:04 am ((PDT)) Gennady, I’ve never tried it on something this large but it should work. You would want to aim for an ID as near the same as the pulley large end OD as you could and slip a short wide wedge into the cut to facilitate getting the pulley into the adapter. I can’t even recall what the part was now but I did once make a smaller one with a single slit, and it worked OK. One other step or check that I forgot to mention is that for it to work satisfactorily the bore should be perpendicular to the face of the large end. Otherwise the small end will wobble. To check this (and if necessary correct it) you need an expanding mandrel cut to fit. There is a kit (Chinese made, I imagine) sold by several vendors on eBay plus places like Enco that I think would be large enough for the 6” pulley. Actually, there are two kits, one with solid shanks and one with 5C. Anyway, you take the mandrel that is the next size over the bore you want to hold and cut the expanding end down to a tight slip fit. Anyway, once you have it on diameter, and without removing it from the chuck, you slide the part on and tighten the tapered head Allen screw to lock the part to the mandrel. Then check the runout of the bore (which should be pretty low) and then of the face of the large diameter end. And touch up the face if necessary. If you do have to touch it up, that probably means that Atlas used the pulley as cast and did not machine the bore. However, this was all written to answer the original question of a possible way to safely hold the pulley or some similarly shaped part on the lathe. I still contend that the quickest and, overall least expensive, and most satisfactory way to replace the pulley bushings is to just buy a pair. Properly install them, put the spindle back together, and get on with it. Robert D. ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------