Atlas chucks are the main subject of this file but the reader is well advised to also read the other chuck files for practical use and repair information that can be adapted to your needs. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2008 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== From: Jon Elson Date: Mon Jan 24, 2000 7:08am Subject: Re: grinding chuck jaws Tom Baker wrote: > I have a 5" Atlas chuck that has .008+ runout in it. I like the size of > it for small jobs, but with the bad runout, I have to take an OD cut on > anything I turn. I have heard people talk about "grinding in" jaws. Can > anyone tell me how ? Before doing this, you might try re-centering the chuck body. Use a dial indicator, and center the OD of the body until it runs true, then check something known to be round (ie. ground shaft) and see if it is better. If you have a backplate with a centering shoulder for the chuck, you might turn the shoulder down a few thousandths, and see if you can recenter the chuck with the bolts that hold the chuck to the backplate loosened a bit. then, when you get it just right, carefully tighten the bolts and check again. Before I got a 'real' adjustable chuck, I used to do this. If these steps don't help, then I would strongly recommend disassembling the chuck and cleaning the scroll and the teeth on the back of the jaws. Chunks of metal could easily cause this much error. If none of these suggestions helps, then center the OD of the chuck as mentioned above, and then use a Dremel tool, air-powered die grinder, toolpost grinder or whatever you can come up with, and mount that on the toolpost. Use the carriage to run a small grinding wheel across the inner tip of the jaws. When doing this, you need to keep the chuck jaws biased against the scroll by pulling outward, as the clamping force would normally do. Depending on the design of your jaws, different things will work to do this. Finally, make a last pass over all the jaws without allowing the cross slide to move, so all the jaws are ground to the same distance from the spindle axis. Jon ------- From: David Beierl Date: Fri Jan 28, 2000 9:28am Subject: Re: Worn chuck What I actually did, after reading up on that method and looking at the piece of junk I was starting with, was to take a piece of one-inch hard copper tubing and put a dog on one end and slide it over the tailstock ram. Then I very gently chucked the other end and lapped it with valve-grinding compound at the slowest direct speed, gradually tightening the jaws as it lapped in. It worked beautifully. I now have a four-inch chuck that's pretty good btw 1/2 and 1 1/16 inches. Unfortunately my father and/or grandfather rode this chuck hard and put it away wet, and it's fairly worthless at this point. I find it interesting that the jaws themselves aren't bad, but the metal ridges that engage the grooves in the sides of the jaws are disintegrating. Humph. I guess I'm in the market for a new one. I can only afford one, so I guess it will be a four-jaw independent. I picked up the technique of centering work pretty easily, so I don't mind that. david ------- From: J Tiers Date: Wed Feb 2, 2000 5:17am Subject: Re: Worn chuck One caution on the copper pipe truing method. You have no guarantee that the pipe will hold true. The good thing about the regular methods is that they grind to a fixed reference point, the grinder which is held ridgidly in place. If you grind until you no longer get sparks from each jaw, you have the three jaws with their new surfaces on an imaginary cylinder concentric with the spindle. The pipe CAN follow the jaws even if they move eccentrically. So your jaws COULD end up with their surfaces falling on a perfect cylinder that rotates eccentrically to the spindle. If you held the pipe in the steady, well centered and close to the jaws, it might work better, again forcing a fixed reference. Jerry ------- From: ebower Date: Fri Mar 17, 2000 2:31am Subject: chuck jaws To All looking for chuck jaws. I was given the following company (by Atlas) and they do have certain chuck jaws. The company is PBA - 1-800-253-0820 ask for Barb. She was very helpful to me when wanting jaws for my 4" three jaw by Burnerd of England. There are several sets left of the inside jaws only. You have to give them the serial number of the chuck and where it was made. They do not have any parts that are made for American companies that are supplied as overseas. The parts are not the same. I can not guarantee they will have them but you can try for the other chucks. Earl ebowerx~xxlcsys.net ------- From: wooder55 Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 11:46am Subject: Re: 4 Jaw Chuck for 6" A/C Lathe Jude, 4-jaw 1X8 is available at Sears. Its a 6 1/2" dia. $54.99. May not fit your 6'' swing machine. Option 2, You could machine a piece of round stock to the correct thread size, length would be depth of thread plus 1 1/2" of any chuck you buy and use it as an arbor. screw it into the new 4 jaw & Just slip the whole works in your 3 jaw. I have a 4" 4 jaw set up this way that I use on my 12" Atlas and it works fine. Some of the guys may not agree with this method as being proper machining practice, but it works for me. Later, Woody ------- From: David Beierl Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 3:34pm Subject: Re: 4 Jaw Chuck for 6" A/C Lathe My 5" Bison weighs 9# 2.5 oz. with backplate. I adapted the backplate from the previous knackered 4", made who knows when by Almond in Ashburnham MA. I built the diameter up slightly with weldment and turned it back down to size (steel, obviously). It doesn't have a spigot on it like the Bison backplate. My grandpa had some trouble with this backplate -- he broke a tap in the last hole and had to make four more; and he got the thread just a trifle looser than he should have. But that doesn't matter so much with the independent jaws. For consistency, I index the spindle before I put the chuck on, so the weight bears in the same place as it comes into register. I'm quite happy with it. I got a 4" before from Victor Machinery exchange for $80, but it was horrible (Indian) junk. Victor cheerfully took it back. The 1x10 backplate I got from them, though, was Bison. Until I have another need for it, I'm using it as a faceplate for wood turning, using double-sticky tape. Works great (although it must be said that the Atlas 6" is not the ideal wood lathe, not least because the tool rests they currently offer attach to the tool-post slot -- all the carriage controls etc. get in the way of the chisel and there is no height adjustment. Still, it beats a poke in the eye with a pointed stick). I mollified the longer tool rest slightly by adding a mounting hole to either side of the existing one, so that the rest can overhang the carriage more on one side or the other. Helps a lot, actually. Re the Bison chuck itself, I'm quite happy. I spent ten minutes breaking the edges where the jaws and screws meet the OD of the chuck -- now I can slow it with my finger without losing anything. The jaws are numbered counterclockwise from the Bison insignia on the front -- I stamped the numbers on the outside, then later found where Bison had hidden them. David ------- From: R. Lee Hawkins Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 2:48pm Subject: Re: 4 Jaw Chuck for 6" A/C Lathe >Well, I'm getting frustrated trying to find a 4-jaw chuck for my 6" >Atlas/Craftsman lathe.I'll summarize the options in case anyone else >has the same problem. FWIW, I just bought a 4" 4 Jaw chuck on eBay for $41. It's flat-back, brand new (Chinese "ABS" brand). I haven't gotten it yet, and will obviously have to make a backplate (no big deal, as recently discussed here). The pic and specs of the chuck look good. Also, the nice thing about a cheapo 4-jaw is that absolute accuracy is a little less important, since the jaws are independent. I'll let folks know how it goes. In other news, I'm building a table out of 1/2" plate and angle iron for my lathe, to get it off the unstable craftsman bench it had been on. At the suggestion of a colleague, we're going to add a couple pulleys and longer belt, and put the motor and countershaft below and behind the lathe. This should make the entire assembly much more compact (which will leave us enough room in the shop for the new 16" x 100" Standard-Modern that'll be in in a couple weeks.... but that's another story ;). Why are we keeping the little atlas when we're getting this fancy new lathe? Because we can come up with custom change gear trains very easily which allow us to cut weird threads. We plan to make a lot of improvements to the little lathe over the next year or so, and I'll keep folks here posted for those interested. I'll be drawing most of the improvements up in VisualCadd, so if folks are interested, I could even post some drawings to the dropbox. Cheers, --Lee > Can anyone tell me what should be the largest chuck to use on my 6-18 > Atlas? I only have a 3" 4- jaw and would like to get a 3-jaw chuck > but I am trying to decide if a 6" chuck is too much for the head > bearings to carry. Also on the question of number plates mine has no > plate that I can find in any location also no holes where one may > have been riveted on. So how do I figure out what I have so if I > order parts and they need a serial number? Thanks Randy The largest size chuck will be smaller than 6 inches diameter. A full 6 inch chuck will be too big to to turn without hitting the lathe bed. A 4 inch or 5 inch chuck will be the largest practical size. The chuck weight on the bearings of the headstock depends on the type of bearings. If the bearings are ball bearings or tapered Timken roller bearings , chuck weight won't matter. If the bearings are bronze or babbitt, consult Clausing service center and engineering books about weight loading on the bearings. James Sprott Kansas City, MO ------- Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:17:01 -0000 From: "John F. Hornick" Subject: Wobbly Jacobs headstock chuck After being outbid several times, I finally bought a screw-on Jacobs headstock chuck through ebay for my 6' Atlas lathe. It was obviously used but very clean, with no noticeable dings. I did not get around to using it immediately, but when I finally did I found out, much to my sorrow, that it either does not chuck squarely or it just plain wobbles. There don't seem to be any dings on the inside of the jaws, although I do not know how to take it apart. Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone have any really good solutions to the problem? I believe the seller represented the chuck fairly or I would send it back. I can't throw it away because I spent too much money on it! HELP! John Hornick ------- Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:24:18 EDT From: ccnn51x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Wobbly Jacobs headstock chuck I think I would chuck a 4" piece of 1/2 " steel stock in my regular 3 or 4 jaw chuck and turn down a length to 7/16" or whatever is the size I was going to usually chuck in the jacobs chuck. The turned down length should be long enough so you can put it completely into the jacobs chuck. The idea is to leave it in the 3 or 4 jaw chuck just as you turned it and then put the jacobs chuck on the turned down section and tighten the jaws down on it. Thus the threaded end of the jacobs chuck will be perfectly centered. You can then check that threaded end with a dial indicator to see if the problem is the end (which can easily be corrected with a light facing cut or grind), or the threaded section being out of center (in which case you will have to put the jacobs chuck on the threads of the headstock spindle and tighten it on a 3 slotted ring and then take a little grind off the insides of the jaws). I make the 3 slotted ring by milling 3 slots 60 degrees apart on a short piece of iron pipe which will go all the way into the chuck and cut the slots so the jaws just make it through the pipe sides (may have to widen the outsides of the slots with a file if you don't have a tapered milling cutter; slots can even be cut with a hacksaw if you don't have a milling cutter). This exposes the insides of the jaws so they can be ground and holds the jaws tight just the way they would be when in use. You can just use a Dremel tool grinding bit and hold it on the end of a little boring bar. Center it so the end is a little closer to the outside and run it in and out of the slowly running lathe with the lenght feed. Move it out with the cross feed until it just starts to grind. Move it out .001" with the cross feed and do it again. Do this until each jaw shows grind marks its entire length. Should true up the jaws with the bed ways. Clark Nicholas ------- Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:07:41 EDT From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Wobbly Jacobs headstock chuck << although I do not know how to take it apart. >> To take a Jacobs chuck apart, put the jaws about even with the housing. The outer portion is a press fit. You may need a press to get it off. Inside there is a split nut that works the jaws. So don't be scared if you finethe nut "broke in two" that is the way they are made. The nut is made in one piece, hardend then broke in two. That way the chuck can be assembled with no gap in the nut. Sounds as if the jaws may be badly worn. I don't know if new jaws are available or not. John Meacham ------- Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:14:35 EDT From: SLEYKINx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Wobbly Jacobs headstock chuck John: When I got my Jacob HS chuck for my 12" it did not have good runout at times too. I sprayed it down inside with cleaner while working the jaws in and out and I must have dislodged some chips behind the jaws. It runs very true now. I think when you chuck up a large piece the jaws are far enough back that chips can lodge behind the jaws and that throws it out. I recommend you run the jaws all the way back into the chuck and hose it down good as a starting point. Regards Glenn ------- Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:56:54 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: 3 Jaw Chuck Trueing > Has any one tried to clean up the chuch jaws on a 3 jaw... I have a > machine that I just bought ant the bite is not what it should be and > the work tends to walk in... Any suggestions.. What you need to do is set up a tool post grinder. You can use a Dremel or some other small motorized unit to spin a small grinding wheel that will fit inside the bore in the chuck body. Attach it to the tool post so that it can be run into the bore in the chuck. You then use rubber bands or some other jury rigged arrangement to pull the jaws outward against the scroll, as it would be if it were clamping a bar. Now, you adjust the cross slide so that the grinding wheel will be just skimming the jaws, and slowly roll it in and out with the carriage wheel. Rotate the chuck slightly so that you get all of the jaw width ground, then move on to the next jaw. If you are not grinding for the full depth of the jaws, back the carriage out a hair and try again. When you get the full depth of the jaw ground, repeat on all 3 jaws. The chuck should now hold bars along their full length, greatly enhancing performance of the whole machine. Take care to wipe off all grinding dust, as it can do a lot of damage once it gets under the carriage. Jon ------- Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:19:16 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Taig 3 jaw chuck for 1-10 atlas spindle, slight FS/advert I just thought people would like to know that Taig Tools makes their 3 jaw chuck with a 1-10 thread for the 6" Atlas. I finally ordered one and it fits fine on my 6" Atlas. It is a scroll chuck with soft jaws, but doesn't have a gear closure, just a tommy bar, so it doesn't grip as securely as a regular 3 jaw chuck. The soft jaws are useful (ask any Taig owner). You can take what I say with a grain of salt, as I deal Taig lathes and accessories (http://www.proaxis.com/~taig), but if you need a small 3 jaw chuck you might want to look into it. List price is $60.00, less if you get it from a dealer. ------- Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:42:30 -0000 From: "William Thanel" Subject: Kalamazoo Chuck Company 4 inch 3 jaw chuck In my quest for an American or UK made 3 jaw chuck suitable for the Atlas 6 inch lathe I called the Kalamazoo chuck company (Tel 1-888- 727-4703) in Kalamazoo Michigan. I spoke to the owner who used to be part owner of Buck Chuck. He said they make a 1 inch by 10 TPI 4 inch 3 jaw chuck suitable for the Atlas for $265.00 with the backplate installed. He sells a whole line of lathe chucks some US made others are not (4 jaw chucks are Chinese) and he said its not stated on the brochure which ones are US made. He also said that his 4 inch 3 jaw chuck was larger than the current Buck design and that it was made in the US. The price and design sound real similar to the Bison though Hmmmm. I told him about he Atlas group and that quite a few people are looking for a quality US made chuck. He didn't seem real interested but said he would send me the info. Bill T. ------- Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 01:07:28 -0400 From: David Beierl Subject: Re: Bore out Jacobs chuck? Thanks to Earl Bower and the other folks who responded -- what I've done so far is drive the ring up out of the way and mig-weld a chunk of steel to the back of the body flange, slightly larger diameter than the flange; turn the weldment down so the ring fits over it, and drive the ring back down where it belongs. Slick as paint so far. For the welding I undercut the new piece at 60 degrees for a bit under 3/16ths and filled the resulting trough with weldment -- tacked at four places, then filled it in in segments to minimize differential heating of the piece. Next is to chuck up a rod, true it and chuck the Jacobs onto it, center-drill and face the new piece and turn it down to size, then drill, bore, and (heart in mouth) thread it; then mount it onto the spindle and drill the through-hole. Thanks to good advice on somebody's web page I've already made a 1"-10 plug gauge so I can check the thread without dismounting the assembly. I expect I'll practice inside threading some more before I do this one for real...when it's finished it will also be able to be gripped in a three- or four-jaw chuck, and I hope also to make a Morse-taper attachment for it -- maybe even a 33JT fitting so I can use it on my drill press as well. All that should keep me busy for a while. And if I blow the threading I can weld another piece on and try again, since it's all external to the chuck itself. Hope this isn't too boring to you jaded folks, for me it's pretty exciting. david ------- Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 01:15:02 -0500 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Bore out Jacobs chuck? David Beierl wrote: > Is there enough meat in a Jacobs 3B (1/8 - 5/8) 3/4-16 chuck to bore > it out to 1-10 and make a headstock chuck for the 618 lathe? > Are there any particular ways I can expect to mess it up? What I would do is make an adaptor. Take a 2" length of stock about 1.5" diameter, and bore and thread one end to accept the spindle taper. Mount this on the spindle, and then turn down and thread the other end to accept the Jacobs chuck. This way, the female spindle thread is actually running in the final alignment when you cut the threads for the chuck to mount to. This should run as true as the Jacobs chuck can. Jon ------- From: David Beierl Subject: Re: Bore out Jacobs chuck? 10/14/2000, Jon Elson wrote: >What I would do is make an adaptor. Take a 2" length of stock about >1.5" diameter, and bore and thread one end to accept the spindle taper. >Mount this on the spindle, and then turn down and thread the other Jon, I thought about that, but I seriously want the ability to pass stock completely through the chuck, and that's just not possible with such an adaptor. I think I'm headed in the right direction by chucking the Jacobs onto a rod in the four-jaw whilst working on it -- and if need be I can touch up the jaws after everything is pointed in the right direction. If I miss badly I can take it off and weld another piece on, but so far it's looking good. david David Beierl - dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net ------- Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:16:49 EST From: Sagebush9x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: :chuck tightness I wouldn't use the index pin to lock the spindle. It's not strong enough & will definitely shear off. It's better to engage back gear without pulling the drive pin. this effectively locks the spindle, & is strong enough to allow you to tighten the chuck reasonably, or break it loose. I never set it tighter than a couple bumps on the chuck key w/my hand. There's a story in the Bedside Reader by Guy Lautard about a big chuck that started to spin off at high speed, & the operator reversed the 3-phase motor when he saw it happening. The chuck spun back on so tight they had to unbolt it from the backplate & MACHINE the backplate off the spindle threads. Seems the foreman wasn't real happy w/the operator. Ergo the existence of camlock & taperlock spindles. I just don't DO much work in reverse. Just one of the limitations of the little machines we love so much, right? HTH, Ron. ------- Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:24:11 -0600 From: "J Tiers" Subject: Re: :chuck tightness Is it really a good idea to use back gear for screwing the chuck on? I would think that the impact of the chuck as it got tight would be bad for the gears unless done slowly. I have removed chucks by engaging backgear, because that is a steady pull. For tightening a one or two step process seems to work. 1) screw it on with the drive engaged but not backgear, and give the last quarter or half turn a bit of a spin so it seats smartly. (be sure threads and seat are clean first) 2) if it has to be really tight, chuck some scrap and take a somewhat heavy cut to finish seating chuck But then this lathe is a flat belt machine, and does not spin off chucks like a tight v-belt machine with a big motor. ( See, flat belts have advantages! ) Jerry ------- Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:21:42 -0000 From: "W.C. Gates" Subject: Re: :chuck tightness I normally engage back gear to install/remove chucks. I usually spin the chuck on slowly, then use the chuck key to give one final push to seat it. However, my 10" is a flat-belt drive. Also, CLEANLINESS is important. If you get a chip between the back of the chuck and the spindle shoulder, the retaining force will be weak, and vibration may weaken it further. ------- Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:57:36 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Re: New Member Intro > shear off the index pin some day though. How much is too much? I use the back gear (with the direct drive pin still engaged) for locking and unlocking chucks. I have never had a chuck come loose under normal circumstances. I did have one start unscrewing when I was doing something really odd, once, threading with backwards rotation or something crazy like that. I never use a hammer or other tool to lock the chuck on the spindle. I occasionally have to use a rubber mallet to unlock the chuck. One time, when I accidentally gave too big a spin to an 8" chuck on my 12" Atlas, I had to jury rig a strap wrench to get it off. I was at about the point where I was worried about breaking the back gears when it came loose. The back gear can take a little more abuse that the index pin, which is MUCH too light for chuck locking/unlocking use. Most older Atlas machines have massively chewed up index holes in the bull gear from this abuse. You can definitely break the back gears with heavy impacts when trying to unseize a frozen chuck! This is a common complaint of new Atlas owners. Anyway, there is something wrong if your chuck comes off this easily. It should bind up quite well when brought gently to hand tight, and then hand tightened with the chuck key as leverage only, with no impact. When you tighten it like this, you should find it quite difficult to release it with hand force only. Every 1.5-8 threaded chuck lathe I've ever used has been like that. Now, for the actual tightening, I usually leave the chuck just a tiny bit loose and then, using the chuck key I pull it tight. By this, I mean that the perimiter of the chuck moves about 1/2" max until the chuck is tight. This makes it tight enough that it is VERY unlikely to come loose by accident. Note that you can easily overdo this, and get it so tight that power tools are needed to get it off. Jon ------- Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:30:48 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Tightening Chucks jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu writes: > I never use a hammer or other tool to I read someplace, and have always used this system to screw chucks onto the spindle. Start the chuck onto the threads then leave a turn or two from tight. Then "spin" the chuck with a fairly sharp spin till it seats itself on the spigot. If every thing is clean as it should be the chuck settles in with a satisfactory "thunk" with out putting in the index pin nor putting the spindle in back gear. There is enough inertia in the spindle gears, belts, motor etc to make this work. At times I have had to engage back gear with the lock pin still engaged to remove a chuck. I do this by screwing the jaws out even with the body, put a wood block on a jaw and hit the wood with a plastic faced hammer. My own feelings (maybe some one with more experience can correct me) are that one fairly hefty whack is easier on the gears etc than gentle repeated taps. But, always hold my breath when a chuck gets stuck this tightly. John Meacham ------- Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:43:28 -0000 From: "W.C. Gates" Subject: Re: Chatter with my New 3-jaw Ronald Thibault wrote: >>>After making a backplate and using my new 6" 3-jaw, I have a major problem with chatter!! It was so bad on the last piece (2" dia and only about 4" sticking out), that the jaws opened and the workpiece started to walk out and caught the toolbit destroying it. I just barely got the lathe stopped and caught it just before it fell out entirely! I tried several different speeds and feeds just prior to this, to try to eliminate the chatter. To verify that it was not the spindle bearings or some other looseness in the lathe, I chucked a 3/4" bar and retried turning with that chuck, got chatter. Then I put on my old 5" chuck and repeated, no chatter!! I'm stumped, any suggestions?? <<< I suggest an experiment to determine whether the problem is in the chuck mounting or in the jaws. Put the chuck on the spindle and mount a dial indicator (preferably an old, expendable one) to read the chuck OD. First, gently hit the chuck with a lead hammer in various locations. If it appears not to move, then take a light cut on a workpiece and see if it is the chuck body itself, or just the workpiece which is wobbling. If it is the chuck body and the chuck seems tight on the mounting plate, perhaps the threads in the mounting plate are slightly tapered, bigger toward end of spindle, allowing mounting plate to wobble. ------- Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 04:47:51 -0000 From: "Tim Clarke" Subject: Re: Has anyone any experience with Grizzly's chucks/inserts? In atlas_craftsman, Rick Kruger wrote: > Could you post the search info you used to find the insert o insert > there either, or any chuck back plates for that matter. Look on page 58 of the 2000 grizz catalog. This the WOOD lathe section I bought an insert for 1"-10 several years ago. I do hope they're tighter than they used to be!!!!!!!! Not near good enough for metal lathes. But for $6.95 you can afford to take a chance. Speaking of wood, HARD wood, like oak, is good to practice up on internal threadcutting. After you've made a few practice runs on wood, you're ready to make your backplate out of steel. Be careful take very light cuts, and have enough material for several. If the first attempt is a little loose, use it to make a dog driver faceplate. After you can make a nice fitting thread for your lathe spindle, you'll never be afraid to thread anything again. Regards, Tim ------- From: "J. Reid" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 1:21 PM Subject: [atlas_craftsman] chuck mounting > I have a 4 in. 4-jaw chuck that needs a backing plate for mounting it > onto my atlas 1X10 spindle. Am not certaim which part of the > back surface of the chuck is for registration. Does this make any > difference on a 4-jaw? Anyone know of a 1X10 faceplate I could adapt > as a backing? Jack Reid Issaquah WA >> You can also get rough casting backplates, but you will have to do all >> the work yourself. Making the 1-10 thread, machining to size, etc. Try >> www.thomasregister.com to find addresses and catalogs (it is free!) >> James Sprott I saw your post on the backplate for the 4 inch 4-jaw chuck. Try Buck-Matsumoto and Kalamazoo chuck companies. They make 1-10 back- plates in a semi-finished state for their own 4 inch chucks.. You only need to finish cut to fit the back of your chuck. You may have to drill and tap any screw holes to match those in the back of the chuck (if there are any tapped holes). ------- Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:04:20 -0000 From: vmaxx~xxcyberportal.net Subject: Questions about making a backplate Most blank backplates that are commercially available seem to be cast. Is there any reason not to make one out of mild steel stock (which I already have)? Also, the backplate I'm making will have 1x8tpi. I also already have a 1x8 tap and I understand that the backplate is meant to seat on the spindle shoulder. Is there any reason not to use the 1x8 tap as opposed to cutting the internal threads? Thanks, Ed ------- Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:13:40 -0700 From: "Maxwell Sandford" Subject: Re: Questions about making a backplate Backplates need not be cast iron. Cast iron is often used for its convenience in producing blanks for machining to the proper size. Steel plate is suitable especially for small chucks. Further, you can rough out the hub from round steel stock and weld it into a recess turned into a piece of plate, following with machining the entire assembly. Certainly you can bore the hub and then threading with a tap. You obviously have to tap in the lathe to maintain concentricity of the thread. ------- Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:37:41 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Questions about making a backplate > then threading with a tap. You obviously have to tap in the > lathe to maintain concentricity of the thread. See Jim's letter, about single point threading in the lathe is better. Also you can compromise if you are doubtful about cutting the internal threads by starting the threads in the lathe with a 60 degree boring bar, then after removing most of the material, finish off with your tap. John Meacham ------- Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:57:42 -0000 From: "William Clemens" Subject: Re: Questions about making a backplate Be careful of the distortion that mild steel exhibits for a long time after welding unless normalized in an oven at red heat - the basic reason for cast iron is the stability and ease of machining. Some mild steel is a female dog to threat in the small lathe. Sure it is not 1" x 10 TPI ? My 6" is.... Bill C. ------- Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:42:59 -0400 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: Re: Has anyone any experience with Grizzly's chucks/inserts? At 08:53 PM 11/11/00 -0800, you wrote: >Okay, I get it now. I didn't bother to look at the wood lathe chuck >stuff. I'd be pretty skeptical of using that system on a metal >lathe. But, what they heck, I did make backplates out of Alum. Rick I bought 2 of the 1 1/2 - 8 inserts, to try them out. They are threaded the whole length, no register. I installed one on the spindle with a spacer holding it past the spindle register. I then removed and installed it a few times,measuring the runout on the outside, each time. The runout was less than 0.003" each time! Quite good!. I installed the insert in my 4-jaw and cut the register. I then used this as the basis of a jig I needed. I can recommend at least that size insert. Ron Thibault North Augusta, SC USA Builder Miinie #2 Captain R/C Combat Ship USS Arizona http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/ ------- Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:09:44 EST From: SLEYKINx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Questions about making a backplate When I made my back plate for the 6" I used a tap in the drillpress to cut the threads, then mounted the backplate on the lathe backwards to cut the register and sholder. Then I flipped it over and faced it and cut the socket for the chuck. By going this way everything was cut to the threads and register and it still runs very true. When I made the backplates for the 12" I used the faceplate to mount the backplate on to cut the trheads and register. Made it easy to unscrew the faceplate and filp it over to check the fit. I used CRS for all the backplates I have made and they have all turned out just fine. (I'm sure there is a reason not to use CRS but don't tell me cause then it wouldn't work right anymore ) :) I drill and tap the back plate and mount it to the face plate with a spacer so I don't munge the faceplate when I do the threads on the back plate. If I could just learn how to do trepanning right it would make it much simpler but .. I think I have all the back plates I will need for a good long time. Regards Glenn ------- Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:36:20 -0600 From: "J Tiers" Subject: Re: Backplate counterpoint I think the fears of tapping are perhaps overstated. I think it would be easier overall to cut the thread. I think it would be much easier to cut that thread in cast iron. And I think you would find cast iron more satisfactory. But you could you could tap it in your material of choice. The trick is to get it a) concentric with the hole, or really with your chuck, actually. b) perpendicular to the contact surface on the back To bore it, and thread, you would mount on faceplate, then drill and bore, thread, cut the relief, and face the contact surface in one setup without removing the blank. Easy to get it right. Otherwise you can tap it as straight as you can, then mount it backwards to face the contact ring. You might need a spacer to hold it away, but probably are OK, as it is still oversized for machining. Then you have to cut the relief also. After that you can mount it straight and finish machining. I doubt you will get it as perfect as by one setup from scratch. ------- Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:57:42 EST From: SLEYKINx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Questions about making a backplate The only requirements for the threads are that they be somplace close to the center of the mass and close to perpendicular to the face. I did mine in the drillpress to hold the tap square and used two big cresent wrenches to turn the thing. The ONLY thing the threads can do is push the backplate against the register. The threads do NOT make a "cone" or any other type of precision alignment. If the threads were the precision part of the deal they would wear out in short order and the backplate would be junk. The register (the flat surface the backplate butts up to on the spindle combined with the un-threaded portion of the spindle) center and square the back plate and are not subject to wear like the threads are. Bottom line ... Grab a hunk of 3/4" or 1" steel plate and go for it! Worst case you make little pieces of scrap out of biger pieces of scrap and you learn some things in the process. Make some chips! Enjoy your toys! Let us know how it works :) Glenn Neff Medford, OR ------- Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 20:19:39 -0000 From: "William Clemens" Subject: Re: Questions about making a backplate Threading in the lathe with a single point tool is one of the reasons that the screwcutting lathe was developed. There is no better way to assure that the thread is axially true to the part and you have the ability to cut an amazingly coarse thread with little chucking power. The use of a tap in the lathe, to me, is cheating yourself of one of the most useful features of a screwcutting lathe, besides, how can a part possibly be gripped in a lathe chuck to resist slipping under the tremendous force required for a 1" X 8 or 10 TPI tap ? That is too much material being removed in too short a span - too much bite. Thread your backing plate in the lathe - have fun, enjoy the challenge. You will be surprised how well you can do with a bit of practice! There is text for the faint of heart. Bill C. ------- Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:47:49 -0600 From: "J Tiers" Subject: Re: Questions about making a backplate SNIP >> The threads do NOT make a "cone" or any other type of precision alignment. If the threads were the precision part of the deal they would wear out in short order and the backplate would be junk. The register (the flat surface the backplate butts up to on the spindle combined with the un-threaded portion of the spindle) center and square the back plate and are not subject to wear like the threads are.<< UNSNIP Interesting, but not altogether accurate, as far as I can see. I have a chuck with a backplate that was pre-threaded. It has NO contact of the unthreaded portion with the similar part of the spindle. However, it reproduceably ends up on center when screwed on, to a degree that I do not notice it with the three- jaw chuck, even using DTI. Given decent threading, the threads evidently DO make an alignment. Otherwise the chuck mentioned above would be totally unusable, as the "register" is at least 0.050 larger than the matching spindle area. Runout is actually down around 0.001 repeatability. The "register" also would wear down if it were the primary alignment, as it is cylindrical, and would have to be a nearly wringing fit for accuracy. Then the chuck should exhibit a thousandth of inaccuracy and unrepeatability for every thousandth of looseness of the "register". A taper mount spindle uses a taper because any mis-sizing is irrelevant to the centering action, it just moves the chuck back a tiny amount. If you think about it, you will conclude that the threads MUST have a similar alignment action, just from the geometry. And, yes, they do form a cone, at the thread angle. Just cut bad threads on a plate once, and see what happens. ------- NOTE TO FILE: The points made in the last message make sense, although nearly all literature and discussions on the web support the fit-to- register method. It is interesting that in the microlathe world of the competing Taig and Sherline lathes, opposite methods are employed. The Taig has a definite register on the spindle and in the chucks and faceplates and accessories made by that company. The Sherline does not have a register on the spindle or in its own screw-on chucks/accessories. Rather it counts upon accurate in-line threading, combined with the part (say chuck) coming to a stop against a dead flat precise wall on the spindle. That final snugging ensures the chuck is dead on. Both methods in these two instances work to remarkable precision. It is certainly possible/likely that the chuck backplate in the last message, although loose on its register, is being aligned by the rear of the backplate coming up against the part of the spindle behind the register. ------- Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:08:59 -0500 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: Questions about making a backplate > certainly nothing intrinsically "wrong" with using a tap to thread a > hole, if done properly (lots of issues to consider... Jim: I keep pressure on the tap with the tailstock until it is far enough in to be aligned. I lock the spindle and turn the tap or die with a wrench using my left hand, and keep the pressure on the ram with my right. If you need truly concentric threads then cutting them with the toolbit of the lathe is the only way, but for most threads a tap or die suffices. For a backplate you can mostly cut the threads with an internal bit, and then finish to size with a tap. If just a small amount of work was left for the tap your thread would be concentric enough for the backplate to align via the register cuts. this is much easier then cutting that last little bit on the threads for the beginner. I wish I had a 1 1/2" - 8 tap to do this with my plates. That last few thousandths take as much time as getting there. Ron Thibault ------- Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 02:33:06 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Re:Lining up a chuck Reames wrote: >> A few months ago, I managed to get a 5" Enco chuck, NIB, plain back. I managed to get a 1-1/2X8 threaded blank, so to make it better, I took it to a Machine shop to drill and mount the chuck. Bad Idea. The chuck is 10 thou off center on the back plate. The machinist put 3 machine screws into it, then pinned it in place. I took off the backplate, ground off the locating pin and put it back together, trying to tap it into place. Still it's off 8 thou at the front of the chuck. If I enlarge the holes to allow slip so I can center the chuck will that do, and should I pin it when it's aligned or is Real Tight good enough? << Machining the backplate on the lathe it is to be used on is always the best way. Does this backplate have a step shoulder that the chuck uses to center on? You should cut the face that the chuck seats against to make sure it is absolutely true, without any wobble. This is probably your problem. It makes the chuck wobble, so you can get something centered at only one distance from the chuck. If there is a step, you may need to turn the diameter down a little, so the chuck can be positioned exectly in the center. You can also drill holes in the side of the chuck and put large setscrews in from the sides to push against the shoulder to adjust the centering. This turns the chuck into an 'adjustable' chuck, and can be set to run true at some particular diameter. If the chuck is really accurate, it will run true over a good range of diameters without resetting. Jon ------- Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 01:48:28 -0000 From: bobmargiex~xxaol.com Subject: Turning a Faceplate - Yikes! I am sure somebody has experienced this problem. I bought a flat back 4 jay chuck (Bison 3.5") and a blank 4" faceplate for mounting. I am having a hard time machining the faceplate flat. The area toward the center is fine. As I machine toward the outside, I begin to get a concave surface. The outer edge is the worst. If I begin at the outer edge and move in, metal cuts for about 1/2 inch and then space. I am using a 6" Craftsman/Atlas lathe. The cross slide seems tight. I should be able to machine a flat face for the chuck, but I get a curved surface. The center of the face plate has more metal removes than the outer edge. If you put a flat rule against the face, you can see that the rule hits the outside edges and light can be seen on the center portion. This is a Bison faceplate, I think either cast iron or semi-steel. What bit should I use? Should the cross slide be able to machine (face) the entire two inches of travel? This is the first time I have tried facing, and obviously I have a lot to learn. What shape cutter is best for facing? Should I machine from the edge to the center? The speed I am using is the second slowest (not back geared). Any comments are appreciated. Regards, Bob ------- Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 20:59:15 -0500 From: Jude Miller Subject: Re: Turning a Faceplate - Yikes! Be sure that the carriage and compound slide are locked. Likewise be sure that the cutting tool and holder are sufficiently tightened. Also, I believe that the cross slide is factory-set to face *very slightly* concave so as not to be convex. Best, Jude Miller ------- Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:35:58 -0600 From: "J Tiers" Subject: Re: Re: Turning a Faceplate - Yikes! >You need to put something known that is straight across the face >and then set a indicator on your tool holderand place the tip on the >edge of your straight edge and then crank the cross slide in and you >will see what it is doing. The ways are probley worn as you move in >causing it to push away. Cross slide should move straight. Not concave >or convex. Hope this helps. Jim I see two possibilities 1) Less likely : If the cross-slide ways are worn, they likely are more so closer to the apron, due to more use there. Then if the gibs are set so as to allow it to slide all the way in, it may be loose near the apron, and be pushed away from the headstock slightly. Farther in it may be tight, and return to correct location. If tight at the apron, it might fail to slide in all the way without binding. If so, it would presumably need to be scraped back to parallel. Might not be so easy. 2) Another more likely possibility is if the cross-slide has to move far enough towards the apron that part of it is past the end of the slideways as you reach the outer part of the backplate. Then if all 3 gibs are not evenly tight, it may cock away from the headstock and face less deep there. That is easier to fix, just tighten all gibs evenly, and try to set the cutting tool so you need not back the slide that far. Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:06:03 -0700 From: "Maxwell Sandford" Subject: Re: four jaw chucks versus face plates > Just a general question to the group. Do most craftsman/atlas users > prefer to use a 4 jaw chuck for odd part holding versus a face plate? Rick, I use both, and the 3-jaw as well with my Craftsman 6". You really can't live with only one or the other. Faceplates are quite versatile, but you have to clamp or bolt the work. If you are working with dogs, then you have to have the face plate. If you clamp work onto the faceplate, for example using U-bolts, then you can usually do things like turn the outer edge, face part of the surface, etc., and you can drill and bore quite nicely. If you bolt or clamp with U-bolts, then you have to drill and possibly tap the work piece. I find faceplates most useful for work having irregular edges (read that as whacked out of a piece of stock with a #2 cutting tip). I drill & tap the back and bolt it right to the plate. Sometimes the bolt pattern left on the back of the work is actually useful. Otherwise, put it out at the edge and machine it off later, after you can mount the work in a chuck. The 4 jaw is adaptable to any kind of work that has reasonably flat edges and one flat surface, especially so if you put a centering hole and use a center in the tailstock to hold the work securely against the chuck jaws. You can turn the outer edge, face the work, etc. so that it can be transferred to a 3-jaw, or reversed for completing the operations in the 4 jaw. These are the reasons I have for saying that you need both. One consideration is that you can made a fairly decent face plate if you have a 4 jaw, but you can't make a 4 jaw if you have a face plate! What you can do, if you have a 3-jaw, is make a backing plate for a flat-back 4-jaw. So if you are going to get only one, I would go for the 4-jaw and then look at getting a face plate later down the line. One of the interesting aspects of machine work is the process the machinist uses to determine the sequence of operations. Starting with a drawing and some pieces of stock, you have to decide how to begin and which operations to do in a sequence that minimizes the number of times you change the work configuration. I think that such considerations must have been the origin of what used to be called operations research. If you think about it, a CNC machine has to solve the same process problem, although it is MUCH more adaptable in finding a solution. The machinist bolts on the work, defines the operations through a digital version of the finished part, and the computer makes the chips fly, signalling when your pie is done. M. T. Sandford, New Mexico -------- Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:14:00 -0600 From: "J Tiers" Subject: Re: four jaw chucks versus face plates My opinion: Someone posted that with a 3-jaw you can make a backplate for a 4-jaw. Having made several backplates, I found I had to use a faceplate to make backplates. My 3-jaw is not that big, which is fine with me, as I use it for small stuff (no collets). And I did not have outside jaws. Faceplates are so cheap that you can add one to your machine and not spoil the budget for the chuck. Paramount Machinery (now out of business) was a high priced outfit, but always had used 8" 1 1/2 x 8 plates priced around $35. Larger like 10" a bit more. You can get a very nice kit from Metal Lathe Accessories. You will find you need both, and for very irregular parts, only the plate is worth fooling with. An angle plate is very good to have. MLA have those also, and other stuff you may want. Big faceplates are also much lighter than big 4-jaws. A 6" 4-jaw weighs nearly 20 lb, and an 8" more like 35. A lot of spinning mass, hard starts, slow stops, wear on belts and bearings. I would guess 8" is as big as you want to go on a chuck. A faceplate can be as big as will physically swing. Faceplates, being lighter, start easier, and won't unscrew so badly on start if used in reverse. And I agree, plates are more versatile if you do bigger stuff, or large flattish parts. Jerry ------- Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:28:31 -0000 From: "Alan Hineman" Subject: Re: 3-Jaw Chuck Removal From: > I have a Craftsman 12x36 and I'm trying to remove the 3 jaw chuck to > try out a set of collets I bought. Problem is, the chuck is stuck > (?). How does one go about removing this. Wife said to use a 'big' > hammer :) Thanks Phil Pasons Fabrication Phil, a good way is to put lathe in back gear without pulling pin so spindle is locked then use a large crescent wrench on one of the jaws a pipe wrench could be used also with something protecting jaw surface this usually provides enough leverage. good luck al ------- Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:45:28 EST From: PIHPGSx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: 3-Jaw Chuck Removal Turn the chuck so that the chuck wrench will be on the top: engage the back gears without pulling out the pin on the face of the front spindle back gear. place wrench in its hole and pull, if it won't budge, pull on wrench while tapping on jaws with a peice of wood, brass or plastic hammer may take some effort, this is by the book process, hope this helps chuck ------- Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 00:33:50 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: 6" versus 8" 4 jaw chuck STYSx~xxMINDSPRING.COM wrote: > Guys, > Could you give me your opinions on using a 6" or 8" 4 jaw chuck on my > Craftsman / Atlas 12 X 24? My machinist friend (40+ years turning > experience) from work suggests that a 8" is really too much weight > for my machine(40+ lbs with backer plate). He suggests that a 6" at > less than 30 lbs (including backer plate) is about all I would want > to put on the headstock for safety sake. I know a number of you have > 8" chucks on your machine. I have an 8" adjustable (3 jaw) chuck on my 12". It is the maximum practical on the lathe, as the jaws can hit the carriage when extended fully. It is also a bit heavy to mount and dismount from the threaded spindle. if you consider the cutting forces, the weight really isn't much of a factor. A crash at 1000+ RPM could do serious damage due to the rotational inertia, though. > Do you really find that that extra few inches in diameter is really > worth it? I use a 6" 3 jaw Buck Chuck on my lathe 90% of the time > and it weights over 32 lbs with the backer plate. Yes, even the 12" lathe is sometimes a little too small for some of the work I do, and a standard 6" chuck is just too small for certain work. Now, there are ways to handle large parts with a small chuck, but they take time to set up. > I get really nervous running it over 1000 rpms. I have a 3" chuck > that I am turning a backer plate for now, and I'm planning on using > it for the smaller diameters when I need the speed over 1000 rpms. I don't understand the speed problem. I really have no desire to go over 1000 RPM, and the 8" chucks usually won't grip tiny shafts, so a smaller chuck is good to have. But, I have no fear of the chuck exploding, flying off the spindle, or whatever, up to 1000 RPM or so. When turning a concentric workpiece at 1000 RPM, the lathe does not vibrate. When turning a part that is not balanced at 1000 RPM, you DO know it. > So this should take care of my speed/safety concerns, but I'm > sure that occasionally I will want to turn small diameter, odd shaped > parts. So if I continue with this same line of logic, then a 6" or 8" > 4 jaw chuck will be used for large, slower rpm parts, and a smaller > chuck (3" or 4")or face plate for the smaller, faster parts? Am I > make things too complicated for myself? Yes, it sounds like you may. I leave the 8" 3-jaw on the machine 95% of the time. I have a 6" 3-jaw that is usually on a dividing head, and I have to swap backplates to use it. I have only had it back on the Atlas once, when I had to a bunch of rings that would put the 8" chuck's jaws at an awkward position, leaving a LOT of jaw extending out of the chuck body. It was one of those situations where the 8" jaws were too large to grip the part internally, the 6" couldn't grip it externally, or the jaws would fall out, so the only way to hold it was to grip it internally with the 6". So, I think this shows that a couple of chucks are VERY good to have, and you use what is most convenient, or fits the work to be held in the best manner. Using a chuck when the jaws extend far out of the body can be very dangerous. I've had a few close calls that ended in my finger getting 'spanked' or a broken nail, but these taught me to keep my hands away from that area. So, in the case of a large workpiece, a bigger chuck can be SAFER! Jon ------- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:51:06 -0000 From: keilfarmsx~xxsocket.net Subject: AA chuck backplate idea I bought a old Craftsman lathe model#109.20630 at a farm auction for $80.00. It had a bad 4 jaw chuck with it. I found a new 3" 4jaw chuck at Grizzly Industrial for $50.00 I had a bushing turned out to mount the new chuck to my old backplate to keep it on center. Then sloted the holes on the old backplate to fit the new chuck. It all is working fine now. Just thought someone might like the info. If anyone needs a new chuck or 1/4" C-6 carbide-tiped tool bits cheap Grizzly worked for me. A 20pc set of tool bits was about $15.00. Go to www.grizzly.com ------- Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:46:02 -0800 (PST) From: Don Smith Subject: Re: Re: Chuck adapter for AA spindle Bill, I figured if I were going to use a Taig chuck, there were at least four ways to accomplish this. I could use the 3/4"-16 adapter...machine a new backplate for the chuck...replace the spindle with one like yours, that`s threaded 3/4-16...or buy a Taig chuck that came with the lathe already attached. I guess the adapter seemed like the easiest solution. But...I sure would like to have a 3/4-16 spindle. Regards, Don Smith ------- Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:11:33 -0800 From: "Dave Engels" Subject: RE: Chuck for a 1"X10 Spindle Don, Earl Bower (ebowerx~xxlcsys.net) can make one up for you, priced very reasonably, he does excellent work. He made one for me and I am totally satisfied. Best, Dave Engels ------- From: kdolanx~xxe... Date: Wed Aug 8, 2001 12:01 am Subject: Re: New 3" Chuck > I'm a newby to Craftsman lathes and this list. A friend gave me an old > model 109 Craftsman lathe which I need a new chuck for. The chuck it has > a Dunlap #11170 3" 4 jaw, but I'm not sure if I want another 4 jaw or a > is self centering 3 jaw. Anybody have a good source for chucks for these > lathes? Thanks Jesse Murphy You might try Sherline www.sherline.com. They make a very nice, in my opinion, 3 1/4 inch 3-jaw and can supply it in the 1/2-20 thread to fit the 109 lathe. I've been very satisfied with mine. Kirk Dolan ------- From: sleykinx~xxa... Date: Wed Aug 8, 2001 12:06 am Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New 3" Chuck New Englan Brass (781)729-7672 has a nice looking bison 3 Jaw in 1/2" x 20 that looks like it would be sweet for that lathe. $119. It is a 2 1/3" chuck with reversible jaws and optional soft jaws. www.brassandtool.com Saw the add in a recent MW mag. Regards Glenn Neff Medford, OR ------- From: wburkysrx~xxy... Date: Thu Aug 9, 2001 7:46 pm Subject: Re: New 3" Chuck Jesse: Be sure to accurately measure the threads of your spindle before you get any chuck. Some 109's had the 1/2-20 thread, but mine and some others had 1/2-24 threads. Bill Burky, Orrville, Ohio ------- Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:51:08 -0500 From: "Ebower" Subject: chucks for lathes I am sending this to the group as it will affect anyone if you try to machine a chuck or backplate for your lathe. I have been machining chucks (without backplates) for the Atlas 6" lathe and AA/Craftsman lathes for the past 7 or 8 years. I have just recently purchased a chuck from MSC (where I get all my tooling) and commenced machining the back and bore to 1"-8 thread and register for the older Atlas 6" lathes. I had purchased a chuck that was made in China (I use chucks made in China or Poland for this re-work and also have done several for my own machines). I indicated the chuck in, using the register cut into the chuck (which you are suppose to fit to when machining a backplate), and threaded, machined register, and cut back of chuck to fit. When I set up to check runout I found .007/.010 runout, which was not normal when I machine them. After discussing the chuck, with the manufacturer thru MSC, I decided to check the chuck with the jaws clamped against an indicated rod in a different machine. (I dis-assemble the chuck to machine and then clean and re-assemble after machining). This is where I found that the jaws and the register in the back were not concentric. there was .007 runout with the jaws. Sorry for being long winded on this but thought that this could caution everyone to check register first. Even with a cheaper chuck you can make them more accurate. I use special setups and bigger equipment, than the Atlas 6", for this work. I also machine for commercial business and had to be ISO 9000 certifed (government can get tacky) and have more precision equipment that what most home shops have so this was a bit on the questionable side when I checked it. Earl bower machine (Mom and Pop business for the home machinist as well as commercial) ebowerx~xxlcsys.net ------- Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:38:25 -0700 From: "GSNEFF" Subject: Re: Heavy Metal >> I have a 12 x 24 3980 with Timken bearing spindle. There were no chucks or tooling with the lathe when I bought it. I just recieved the new chucks I ordered (6" 3 jaw and 8" 4 jaw). The 8" 4 jaw plus the backing plate weigh a total of 43 lbs. Is that too heavy for this lathe? Seems big. Zort << I have been using chucks that weigh that much for a couple of years now with no ill effects. I do notice things turn out better with the flywheel effect the extra weight seems to dampen out vibration some. Glenn Neff Medford, OR http://www.superford.org/?vID=1089 ------- Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:55:11 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: sears AA metal lathe MT#0 drill chuck > I need a MT#0 drill chuck for my lathe. Does any one know where I can > find one??? This is for a sears AA metal lathe that I have just > picked up at a swap meet. Thanks Mike You can turn an arbor to fit both the #0 taper and the other end to fit a drill chuck. I've done several, using the compound to do the taper. Mert ------- Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:59:42 -0000 From: "bill_collins14" Subject: Re: sears AA metal lathe MT#0 drill chuck Thats right Mert, I threaded a 6" piece of 1/2 drill rod for 3& 3/4". With a .50x20tpi die. Both ends were already centerdrilled, then figured the amount of taper needed and set over the tailstock the required amount, mounted the rod between centers using a dog and faceplate and cut the #0 taper to fit the tail stock spindle. When that was finished I cut all but 3/4" of the threaded end off and chamfered the end of the threaded part and screwed on a standard 1/2"drill chuck. Pretty easy actually. I figure if I can do it he should be able to do the same. GB. Bill C. ------- Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:12:09 -0000 From: "elperkins2003" Subject: 1"-8TPI Chuck & Tooling Source Having owned and tooled up two old 6X18 Atlas Craftsman lathes over the last 10 years, I know it can be very difficult to find chucks and backplates in this thread size to fit these old lathes. As a service to those in the group who might be westling with this problem, I have come across some good news. A place called Little Machine Shop specializing in parts and accessories for asain mini lathes and mini mills, now carries chucks with adaptor backplates in 1-8TPI thread. The have Chinese three jaw scroll chucks and four jaw independent chucks. If you don't want Chinese manufacture, you can still get the backplate here and get a Bison chuck at J&L Supply, Enco, or MSC. Little Machine Shop also carries faceplates and a casting for a steady rest that looks like it could readily be adapted to the 6X18 Atlas. Prices are very reasonable. Their web address is as follows; www.LittleMachineShop.com The complete catalog is on the website. Have fun! Perk in Cincinnati ------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:59:35 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Proposal If you have a choice of a plain back chuck and packplate or a chuck that mounts direct which would you buy? Trouble is there does not appear to be a choice. If the entrepreneur (someone like the fellow asking ) can get non back plate chucks will we buy? Years ago a friend of mine had lathe without full set of gears and limited experience and he purchased a backplate ...unfortunately it would not screw all the way on his 1 1/2 x8 spindle. Why we did not discover. I now suspect because the backplate thread was incorrect(maybe metric/inch). I do know he grew discouraged and sold lathe. Not everyone has knowledge,confidence or tooling to dive in first thing to tackle turning a backplate. I admire those who can and do make everything from nothing or who have by good luck or good management acquired all the goodies. I am thinking there must be some like myself who would like a source of products or services to enable us bolt it up and go, just, like it was when our lathes were new. I am puzzled that Clausing Atlas has not worked out some arrangement with an overseas supplier to fill in gaps in spares and accessories with high quality and reasonably priced items. Clausing Atlas must have a pretty fair idea of how many of their lathes and mills are out there and what parts and spares customers are requesting. If someone else wants to test the water, power to them. Louis ------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:27:11 EST From: JMartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Proposal 11/19/02, LouD31M066x~xxaol.com writes: << If you have a choice of a plain back chuck and packplate or a chuck that mounts direct which would you buy? >> The direct mount chuck is easier. The plain back with backplate is more accurate, as the backplate is machined on your spindle. It's not much of a job to true up a backplate with a facing cut, cut a shoulder to register the chuck, and drill and counterbore a few oversize holes for the mounting screws. No need to thread the backplate yourself unless you have odd spindle threads or register. John Martin ------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:58:18 -0500 From: "Ebower" Subject: Re: Proposal Lou, the most possible answer is that the back plate that you purchased did not have a register cut into it. Most threaded backplates you buy are only threaded. You must cut the register into it for yourself as some lathes do not have the same register in it. E.g. the south bend I have you must cut a 1.505/1.510 register 3/16 deep in the back hub before you can machine the front. Earl ------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:52:46 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Proposal > and sold lathe. Not everyone has knowledge, confidence or tooling to > dive in first thing to tackle turning a backplate. > I admire those who can and do make everything from nothing or > who have by good luck or good management acquired all the goodies Well, it's a tough choice in some respects. 1) you have the machine that makes the parts. 2) you can make machine parts, or use the machine for what you wanted it for in the beginning. I have done a little of both, and now have everything I have found I wanted to put on the lathe other than a taper attachment. When that becomes pressing, I will make that. But, I have gotten less done on the hobby and repair shop end of things, so I guess I made the choice of cheap, since I did not need the machine to make money with right now. I will say that making machine parts is good practice for making any parts, and it tends to force you into things you were leery of trying. Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:34:18 -0000 From: "jrw064" Subject: chuck upgrade? I have a 12x36 Sears lathe that I am thinking of upgrading the chuck. I have an interest in gunsmithing and most of the gunsmiths I know use either a 4 jaw independent or a 6 jaw, usually the Buck chucks. I see that ENCO is offering a set true type 6" 6 jaw and also offers a 6" Bison 6 jaw. Would there be any advantages of these over a 4 jaw. I think that the Buck is out of reach, but the others are almost with a bit of a stretch. I will use the steadyrest with the chuck for rifle barrel lengths, as the spindle is only about 3/4" or so. Thanks in advance on any opinions, Rick W. ------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:31:04 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: chuck upgrade? 4 jaw is the basic lathe chuck & should be the first ......6 jaw allows tubing to be gripped w/out distortion.... i have barrelled up a lot of receivers the past 30 yrs w/ crftsmn 12x36 w/ no need of 6 jaw ....when working between centers , which i & not a few others,including some bench rest gurus, think is preferable, one MUST work between centers as the exterior is usually not concentric w/ bore ( thats why u use spuds when working thru the h/stock)..either cut or ream decent centers (u can make ur own d bit style , i have,) & dog driveing w/ a faceplate/driver is easiest....spin driver out a few thrds, lace the dog to plate ,screw back on & u r there..if u dont have a driver ,can make one or modify an off size by boring out /sleeving....most of mine were done this way....u can if careful , close a 4 jaw on barrel, while on centers ,to drive ( have not done this , but close friend who holds some national records, chambers this way)......collets have been used to drive after turning exterior concentric w/ bore........set true is only .0005 at specific setting & may have to be reset for different d........0005 tir is not "dead nuts " ,as working on center is,so chucks are out if ur serious, & collet set up may still be too much runout..save ur money...a tight 3 jaw can be modified to set true rather simply ., a sloppy scroll from wear precludes trueing x/cept grinding jaws axially....but expensive 3/6 jaw's dont need to be purchased for barrel fitting.....just fitted 2 , 4 in 3jaws this summer ($36 + backplate,wholesale tool ,one under .001tir, other .00125....) planned on set trueing them but , will wait now & see how they hold up .......feel free to e mail me if more discussion desired. best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:12:58 -0000 From: "renaissanceman04002 " Subject: Re: Rockwell 6" 4 Jaw [WITH ODD SIZE THREADS, THAT NEED SOME SORT OF ADAPTER TO FIT AN ATLAS] > > discovered the threads are too large to fit my A/C 12X24 For a learning item I will look into the Machinist Handbook as suggested by Paul. I need practice looking in there anyway. I've had another idea with regard to making use of the chuck. It's a variation on the theme docn8as gave me above. But instead of boring out an insert and threading that I'm gonna bore out the extant chuck threads and press in a threaded insert I'll make using a 1 1/2"-8 nut. I can pick one up from a local industrial outlet for a couple of bucks. By turning it onto my spindle, facing it off & cut a clearance shoulder, turn the nut around and thread it back on the spindle it will index dead nut against my spindle collar. Then I can trim down the OD of the nut for a press fit into the chuck and "volla" a dead nut fit on my spindle. This is a lot easier for me than trying to cut threads inside an insert. I'll let you guy's know how it works. I'm having fun Jerry ------- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:14:29 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Rockwell 6" 4 Jaw acricketx~xxadelphia.net writes: > This is a lot easier for me than trying to cut threads > inside an insert. I'll let you guy's know how it works. think id like an axially true shoulder on insert & rearof chuck (maybe true up a piece in ur other 4jaw ..grab it w/jaws of work in progress & face the rear of chuck when boring out) , to help true seating ..... (dont think i would do it that way on a 3 jaw!)....& u can always do it again ,if u dont like result! ps........ internal thrd no worse than others ,just thinking abt it is!.....make up a 3/4 boring bar for a 3/16 /1/4 hi speed bit (or grind a thrd bit out of a hi speed tool blank). grind it to 60deg., set compound for 30deg.(tool point towards T/STOCK)..or just cut it x~xx 90 deg. w/ x/slide & a grease pencil to keep track of where u are on dial( if u dont use a thrd stop),making new mark each time ,using LIGHT cuts (works ok & thats the way it was done 100 yrs agowhen compounds were just coming into use,even if they did use spring/gooseneck tools ) HAVE FUN best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:38:38 -0000 From: "renaissanceman04002 " Subject: Re: Rockwell 6" 4 Jaw > Fair likelihood it's 1-3/4" x 8 TPI, a standard size though not as > common as some others. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. yep - that is it. I looked it up in the Handbook today and it fits right in there. It seems to me to be pretty uncommon as it's not in any of the lists in MSC catalog. I have a friend in Canada who is interested in my turning it into a chuck for his wood lathe by creating a 1"-8 TPI insert in it. Might do that too, I'm having fun! ------- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:33:20 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Rockwell 6" 4 Jaw if memory serves , think some larger sheldons used 1 3/4 & 8 (have a pair of 10 3/4 x 8 faceplates that came as" Sheldon "...quien sabe..... surprised the register cut in chuck would be .075 OVER.(maybe sheldon was o/size??????......my 1895 reed has a 2x7 thrd .try finding that in the h/book.....back to the calculator...( oh yeah , the t/stock clamp bolts that the acorn nuts tie down are 5/8 x 12..fortunately checked before i cut the new bolt.....one time i got ahead of the train.....reckon back then u made em however u felt ( or whatever was handy) best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:29:25 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Rockwell 6" 4 Jaw i am squeamish about a threaded bushing w/ .075 wall thickness spinning at who knows what surface speed , but if one is inclined to live on the edge, ,u must either loctite it or pin it ,as it WILL back out on u.,,,,some of us have been there... best wishes docn8as [and in a later message about a threaded bushing versus a pinned one] i think not enuf thickness here to make me happy.....for best of all worlds,i would bore out & thrd for a thicker bushing, screw & sweat it in ., as u say ,then bore & thrd for for spindle.....practically , i have not had one fail with a hard drive fit (have to be careful how much stock is left as cast iron sure can open up on u.)......i.havent succumbed to locktite yet ,reckon just plain pig headed ......looks like it would be much simpler..guess seeing the early bondo crack off my sorry bodywork has contaminated me....after using lead , i thot bondo was heaven ....ha......hear its better now , but am not as poor as i was then , so i wont be finding out....one of the nice things abt 20 yr old farm truck is u no longer bother to turn around & se what damage was done by what it was u backed into when off road.....(coarse it WAS embarrasing when tailgate fell off in traffic ,& cud have been tragic) best wish docn8as ------- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:36:50 -0500 From: "Dr. Robert Harms" Subject: Re: 3 jaw vs. 4 jaw self-centering Im not sure I understand. YOU are the self in the "self centering 4 jaw" while the chuck is the self in the "self centering 3 jaw". > Is there any advantage or disadvantage to having > a self-centering chuck with 4 jaws instead of what > I believe to be the more common 3 jaw type? > I currently have an Atlas 618 that needs its first > chuck. That and a toolpost and we should be rolling. > On the subject of chucks would it be wise to limit > the size of the chuck to no more than 5 inches for > this lathe? 4 inches seems to be the standard. Hank ------- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 22:22:07 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: 3 jaw vs. 4 jaw self-centering there ARE 4 jaw scroll type chucks ,but they are specialty chucks & certainly not the first chuck....although some OLDER /larger chucks were either /or with a lever change in the rear like my 10 in. skinner ( which ceased operations in abt 1921???) a 4 jaw independant chuck is used on irregular & round /square stock as well..u simply have to center it ......which can be done in 2-3 min w/ practice & will also center to greater accuracy than a 3 jaw .....if .005 out is acceptable & all u handle is round /hex stock , a 3jaw will suit u...although a 4 jaw will hold tighter .....3 jaws are specked at .003 & some are better , but w/ scroll wear ,they open up.....i have more than one that may lock up .010 out ...( or .002 out the next time) best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:15:50 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: 3 jaw vs. 4 jaw self-centering Basically, you can't tighten something in a 4 jaw chuck with all 4 jaws equal in holding power. 3 jaws are the max that you can do this with as the work will self center in the 3 jaw chuck. The 4 jaw with opposing jaws will only take one pair and make them tight. The other pair won't be as tight. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 00:43:57 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: 3 jaw vs. 4 jaw self-centering Hi Hank: A self centering 4 jaw is sort of a specialty item, you gain the ability to quickly mount perfectly square or octagonal stock to whatever accuracy the chuck offers. You lose the ability to mount rectangular stock, do offsets for things like eccentrics or cams, and the ability to dial in whatever level of TIR the job required or your patience allows. If you consider the clamping forces and method, the self centering four jaw will only grip solidly on two opposite faces of any stock that is even slightly different in width/height. If you are only going to have 1 chuck, go for an independent 4 jaw. It isn't as handy (quick) for general work on round stock as a three jaw, but it can handle the vast majority of work required of a lathe. The notable exception is hex stock, to hold this in an independent 4 jaw requires you to slip the stock into a split tube to avoid crunching the points that would otherwise contact two of the jaws. I don't know anything about the 618 in terms of spindle strength, as a general rule most makers seem to specify a three jaw no larger than 1/2 the swing of the lathe, and a 4 jaw no more than 2/3 the lathe swing. An eight inch 4 jaw is going on my SB13. SB recommended a 6 inch three jaw fo rthis size lathe. I'm not sure I'd try the 8 inch 4 jaw chuck on my Atlas 12, it seems a bit light for this size chuck. You can mount larger chucks if the spindle and headstock are strong enough to support the weight and additional overhang, but extra care is required in use to avoid dig ins or anything else that stresses the lathe beyond it's intended application. You have to take lighter cuts working near the limits of a lathe. This really comes into play using a larger than intended chuck near it's limit, in effect the distance from the work perimeter to the spindle centerline is the length of a lever. Make a lever longer, more force applied to the far end for the same force applied to the working end. Great for breaking bolts loose, but sometimes great for just bending or breaking bolts (or spindles) :-( Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 02:54:03 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: 3 jaw vs. 4 jaw self-centering There are 4 jaw scroll chucks, too. I even have a 2 jaw scroll chuck on my 12x. Mert ------- Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 14:26:14 +0100 From: "j.c.gerber" Subject: Re: 3 jaw vs. 4 jaw self-centering Hi Robert, There are 4 jaws chucks with 4 independant jaws combined with centering scrolling of the 4 jaws. I.e. see "4-Jaw combination chuck" under http://www.knuth.de/frameset_eng.htm then: Products Accessories/Tools Tools Machine fitting Lathe Chucks Scroll this page and look for the 4-Jaw combination chuck The prices are in EURO: actually 1.05 EURO = 1.00 US$. [VARIES DAILY] There are Chinese chucks, but not badly made. By the way Jean-Claude, Switzerland www.homestead.com/turnandmill ------- Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 11:08:28 -0600 From: "Richard Meredith" Subject: Re: 3 jaw vs. 4 jaw self-centering 4, 6, or even 12 or more jaws on self centering chucks are not unknown in industry, six jaws with removable tops are very common. These are usually used with bored or turned soft top jaws as 2nd operation fixtures for thin wall parts. Even jaw numbers lend themselves to easy direct measurement when boring or turning. The soft top jaw is almost unknown in hobby machine work, but is an everyday way of life in industry. Rich Meredith ------- Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 17:14:59 +0000 From: "brianx~xxsquibb.org.uk" Subject: Re: 3 jaw vs. 4 jaw self-centering I use a soft jaw chuck when facing bolts so as not to ruin the threads. It is either that or make some split work holders Brian ------- Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:34:34 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: 3 jaw vs. 4 jaw self-centering > It is either that or make some split work holders just hacksaw thru a nut or two .....after a while u have a ready supply of split holders best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:21:05 -0000 From: "jrw064" Subject: 4 jaw chuck question With my Atlas lathe(12x36) I got a 4 jaw chuck that is without backplate or key. It was made by Skinner Chuck Company in Conn. It has a male type adjustment on each jaw; I did not see this type of key available in the catalogs. Is a threaded backplate from Enco the way to go or should I just buy the Enco threaded 4 jaw chuck($100) on sale now? Any ideas of where one would get a chuck key for the Skinner chuck that I have? Thanks, Rick W. ------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:37:14 -0000 From: "Thomas Petersen" Subject: RE: 4 jaw chuck question Hi Rick, I have a similar independent 4 jaw skinner chuck (Skinner Model# B-104-T.D.P-55). I mounted it on a Bison threaded back plate from Enco (around $40). Which was over double what I paid for the chuck. It works great. I made a key for it out of scraps in my shop. It consists of three parts. The handle is 3/8" drill rod, 6" long. The main shaft is 5/8" drill rod, 4 1/2" long. The socket is 0.85" steel, 1.25" long. I turned a section of the outside of the socket to 0.75" and drilled out the center, then filed to fit. The handle and socket are held to the main shaft by set screws. The socket set screw locks against a flat milled on the main shaft. It's not the prettiest key but it works fine and was easy to make. If I had to do it again, I might try to cut the internal flats with my shaper, now that it's operational. Here is a link to pictures of the chuck and key. http://home.pipeline.com/~petersent/_wsn/page2.html My chuck has two piece jaws. At first I thought this was a disadvantage, but overtime I have found that this allows me to easily make any shape jaw required to hold odd shaped parts. Hope this helps, Tom ------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:58:49 -0500 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: 4 jaw chuck question Finishing up a backplate is a very easy lathe job. Skinner chucks are very good, but, of course, it depends on the condition of the chuck. I made a female wrench for a very old Union chuck on my mill. It was quite easy. If you don't have such equipment, check at an auto parts store. They are likely to have square socket wrenches. It is also possible that a 12-point socket of the right size will fit your screws. Jon ------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:41:39 -0400 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: 4 jaw chuck question I made a 1/2" square socket wrench for my SB shaper out of an old rusty 1/2 drive extension. polished it up & brazed on a T-handle. Mert ------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:52:58 -0700 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Replacing Zamak parts with Steel The gears are a standard pitch and pressure angle. A bit of work can take standard gears from someplace like Borg or Boston Gear and rework the centers and have some nice gears. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:03:27 EDT From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: 4 jaw chuck question congrats on ur knuckle buster chuck...i think skinner gave up around 1921...it will teach u to file LEFT HANDED.....if like mine the square is abt .450 ......one way is to bore a hole 1/32 over size,taper the entrance, ...grind a 1/2in hi speed bit to .450 + , SQUARE on end & drive it thru ....no clearance or relief necessary 2nd way is drill hole & get out ur trusty file ( yeah , grind it thin if needed) 3rd ...anneal .or get a cheap soft 7/16 socket & drive it on or file it 4th file the square heads to .437 & use a stndrd socket look on ebay for a backblate ....u can bore one out & thread for ur lathe, or sleeve & thread ..........or weld up one out of plate & bar stock , good way to make a faceplate /dog driver also best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 01:25:42 -0000 From: "George" Subject: Re: Chuck jaws In atlas618lathex~xxyahoogroups.com, "tomhawkins7" wrote: > Does anyone have a set of chuck jaws for sale for a 6x18 3 jaw chuck > stamped "Model # 101-214071-H" and "Made in England"? Or know > where I can find them? I already checked with Blue Ridge. Tom: If you find anyone that has some that will fit PLEASE let me know! I gave up on finding any 2 years ago! George H. ------- Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:48:40 -0400 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: Chuck jaws Hi Tom: Ditto what George said. Near impossible to find jaws for these chucks. And probably not worth the effort. By the time some jaws are worn or missing (discarded when broken?), there is a good chance that the scroll inside is also worn or loose. Brand-new jaws (if available, which they are not) would likely still be loose or sloppy in some or all jaw positions. When these chucks were originally made the jaws were fitted to the individual chuck, and everything was new and fitted tight. What you do have is a perfectly good chuck backplate that could be attached to a brand new imported 4" chuck (complete with 2 sets of jaws) for a similar if not lower price and give a far better result. If the old chuck has at least one set of jaws, it can be fitted to a home-made base and used as a workholder for your drill press or milling machine. Concentricity, or lack thereof, for even an old clunker is not an issue in this simple role. Steve in Thunder Bay, Ontario ------- Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 01:34:49 -0000 From: "esides" Subject: Re: Lathe chuck part In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "KDSpriggs" wrote: > I took my Sears Craftsman 6 inch three jaw chuck apart to clean it. > The model number is 101.26180. I discovered that at sometime a tooth > had broken of the bevel gear that drives the scroll. Does any one > have one for sale or do you know where I might find one. I looked at > the Sears part site and also the catalogs that I had from Clausing. I had the same problem except I was the one who stripped it...Ugh. I looked every place I or anyone else could mention but to no avail, Clausing answered my E-mail and said they no longer supported the chuck and offered to sell me on at a gosh awful price. So I had to grit my teeth and machine one on my mill. It took me a while to figure out how to do it but it now works fine. It was also a Sears. Why not try your luck. ED. ------- Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 20:12:24 -0700 From: Jay & Anne Greer Subject: Re: Re: Lathe chuck part There are several chuck rebuilders on the web. For about $100 bucks you can have your chuck rebuilt like new. Seems like a lot of$ but adapting a new chuck can be a hassle. Cheers, Jay Greer ------- Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:47:22 -0000 From: "lkasdorf" Subject: largest chuck for Atlas 12x36? What is the largest diameter or perhaps what is the heaviest chuck that would be advisable to use on an Atlas 12x36 lathe? For example, would there be a problem running a 9 or 10" 4 jaw chuck, rather than the 8" one designed for the lathe? I guess I'm wondering if it could damage the spindle bearings supporting more weight, or drive gears spinning up a greater mass. What is the limiting factor here? Intuitively I think a more massive chuck would always be better, but maybe I'm neglecting something. ------- Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:55:02 EDT From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: largest chuck for Atlas 12x36? the 8 in chuck for crftsmn was a hollow back weighing somewhere around 20 pounds max. ...regular 8 in commercial chucks (bison are near 37 pounds + backplate ,qnother 6-8 ....my chineesw 6 in 4 jaw on antique reed 14x44 , weighs more than crftsmn 8 in.......parts too large to chuck can be bolted to a faceplate.....why ask for trouble by hot rodding a factory design on a minimum mass lathe?......my youngest raced rodded cycles on saturday & spent the rest of week tearing down & rebuilding i ended up w/ a bison 3 jaw after a few trades , & it has been sitting next to crftsmn12x36 for 3 yrs .......will now put it on 14x44...2x7 spindle.......chucks for atlas /crftsmn/logan /9/10 S B lathes were LIGHT duty.................but hey, its ur spindle best wishes docn8as ps ..i have 10 & 12 in chucks for 14x44 & they are a real PIA to put on & take off ...course at age 72 ,lots of things are! lynn...forgot to say that that bison 3 jaw is an 8 in chuck......just too much to put on 1 1/2 x8 spindle.......also too big a chuck doesent allow for jaws opening enuff.......the thot of winding a 10 in up to 1500 rpm or so on a crftsmn kinda makes me shudder!! ------- Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:54:06 -0500 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: chucks for atlas cdftsmn I've been using an 8" Phase-II adjustable chuck on my 12" Craftsman lathe for several years. The lathe runs very well with it. Compared to the loads on the bearing when parting-off or threading, the chuck is insignificant. The overhang is a bit of a worry, though. I cut down the backing plate as much as I possibly could to reduce the overhang. The chuck weighs some 60 Lbs with the backplate. I have had it up to top speed with VERY little vibration of the machine. If the chuck body is taken much off center, however, then you don't want to run it over 1000 RPM. The 8" 3-jaw is a bit big for the 10" machine, and you wouldn't dare extend the jaws much out of the body. But, it is fine in the 12" machine. Jon ------- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:24:15 -0500 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Re: Spindle size on Atlas 10 >Yes - need some backplates Ahh! The spindle/chuck mount is what you wanted to know. The Atlas 10 and 12" machines all use a 1.5"-8 TPI thread, which is very common on smaller general purpose lathes from the 30's to the 70's. I think Logan, South Bend, LeBlond and many others in the 10-12" size used this thread. Jon ------- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:34:51 EDT From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Jacobs Chuck for 6" Atlas/Craftsman > Why are you looking for a Jacobs chuck for the headstock? Bruno: I am not the one looking for the head stock Jacobs as I have one now. On every Atlas I have owned both 6 and 12 inch swing I have a screw on Jacobs chuck for the head stock. Advantages are the spindle bore is left open so longer work or pieces of raw stock can be handled. It is more accurate than the normal scroll type three jaw and in my case with only a fairly large three jaw I can get much closer to the chuck jaws with tooling. When I have to do a bunch of tubing fittings for my locomotives or steam engines I can stick in a three foot length of hex stock and make a whole bunch at one time. Face, drill to tube size, drill to tap size, tap, part off and pull out another length of the hex stock to the tap which is still in the tap holder (basic depth stop), I can knock off all the tube ends in one session that way. John ------- NOTE TO FILE: They seem to have stopped making headstock Jacobs chucks that thread onto the various 1" and larger spindles. Those who can find an inexpensive used one in good condition are very fortunate. There are lots of Jacobs-style chucks that screw onto 1/2 inch 20 TPI, and can be headstock-mounted using a screw-on adapter, or plug-in Morse adapter (use a drawbar to keep the Morse adapter firmly in place!), but there is no through hole that allows longer stock to pass through the headstock spindle. Using an adapter may increase runout unless it is carefully made and consistently used. A cheap Jacobs knock-off may not give acceptable (whatever "acceptable" means to you) accuracy no matter how well the adapter is made. It is still worth trying. ------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:44:46 +0100 From: "Ernest Lear" Subject: Re: Jacobs Chuck for 6" Atlas/Craftsman Dave: Make an adapter. Turn up a short bar of MS to 1 1/4" dia. with one end bored and threaded 1"x8tpi to fit the Atlas spindle and the other end reduce to 1/2"dia. and threaded 20tpi.to screw into the chuck. The length of the adapter will depend on the how much you want to screw on to your spindle and to screw into the Jacob Chuck. It would be better to get a chuck fitted to a M3 tapered shaft (or M2 taper with a M3 sleeve) and plug it, when you want to use it, into the internal Morse taper already in the Atlas spindle. I turned up a Morse taper to fit my spindle and threaded the tailstock end to fit a chuck that I already had. Now I push it in when needed and tap it out with a bar push thru the lathe spindle when I'm done using it. If I have a 3 or 4 jaw chuck on the spindle I can leave it on with the jaws open to clear, to plug in and use the drill chuck as I don't need to take it off. Ernest ------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:37:48 -0400 (EDT) From: x xx Subject: Re: Jacobs Chuck for 6" Atlas/Craftsman Dave Marse wrote: >>>OK... now I'm getting confused. What yall are tell me is that instead of looking for a threaded chuck.. go with a chuck mounted on a taper. That's great.. but what size taper and what's gonna hold the taper on the spindle. I have a Craftsman 6" 101-07301 and am not sure of the taper in the spindle. There are a bunch of chucks on ebay with tapered stock for good prices so getting one of these would be easy. My igorance is that I thought those chucks are designed strictly for the tail stock.. is this correct? Can someone please explain as to how chucks are held in the spindle?taper types, etc and what I would need to get to be able to run a jacob chuck in the spindle? remember.. talk to me like I'm in Kindergarden ! <<< Dave: No, no - not a kindergartener, just a newbie as we all are/were at some time. Lots of this stuff isn't really intuitive. And remember that rules are made to be broken. The only reason you think that tapers are for tail stocks only is that sometime, somewhere, somebody told you that. Anyway, my little Prehistoric Beast - a Craftsman cheapie - has #0 Morse tapers (abbreviated "0MT"). There are different tapers bearing different names. They are distinguished by their rates of taper, so you gotta use the kind of taper that your lathe is made to take. You also have to use the right size of the kind of taper the lathe takes. Both tailstock and head stock on you lathe will have a female taper. You can check it for yourself by taking the chuck off the spindle. The I/D on the tailstock end of the spindle will be bigger than the I/D on the gear end. That's due to the taper within the spindle. Now take the taper out of your tail stock and slip it into the chuck end of the spindle. You'll feel it "take". It's the wedging action of the taper that imparts enough friction to turn the work against the resistance of the cutter. Someboidy is going to jump me for saying that because I think that there are lathes where the taper in the tail stock in fact is different from the taper in the head stock. The fact that it is a taper, means that it will automatically align correctly so the longitudinal axis of the taper is exacly congruent with the longitudinal axis of the spindle. In consequence, if you leave a nice fat "collar" on the fat end of the taper, above its "bury" (the depth it settles into its socket), you can then face the side of the collar away from the taper so that it is exactly "normal" (at right angles) to the axis of the taper. this is what is called a "register". You need that so the end of the chuck can "register" against it to make sure that the axis of the chuck is also aligned with the axis of the lathe since you can't rely on the thread in the chuck to do that. So, to sum up: What you need is a gizmo consisting of three parts turned up from one solid piece: 1) A taper to fit your lathe 2) A register suited for whatever has to go on the adapter 3) A thread (male or female) suited to the gizmo that has to go on the adapter. One of the things I do for an approximate centrering of work in the four jaw is to slip a taper with a collar into the head stock so the collar is within the jaws. Then I close each jaw to just touch the collar on the taper. Then I count turns on the key as I back off the jaws and take the taper out. Then I close the jaws one turn on the key at a time on each jaw in turn, till the work piece is grasped. Remember that there is no one approved, official method of doing any of this. As we used to say when I wuz young: "if it feels good, do it" :-) Anyhow, once you get set up right you can knock out tapers by the dozen in no time flat. Hope that helps Sam ------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:15:28 EDT From: Sagebush9x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Jacobs Chuck for 6" Atlas/Craftsman I think there's a reason chucks are not normally used in the headstock taper of a lathe, besides pass-through ability. If you've ever tried to do millinng in a drill press, you know what I mean-side thrust (cutting) forces will cause the chuck to come loose & fall out in very short order. The only way I can see this working is to use a drawbar to hold the taper shank in, which for sure does away w/ pass-through. I pondered this dilemma for years, finally decided the Jacobs headstock chucks were too expensive & rare, & went w/a collet setup. I built everything but the collets themselves, & lucked into a set of 3C collets from a member of this group...totally satisfied w/ the setup... Ron in CO ------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:28:38 -0000 From: "n5kzw" Subject: Re: Jacobs Chuck for 6" Atlas/Craftsman It looks like this thread is going in a couple of different directions. If you need the ability to pass stock through the spindle, then you have no (Jacobs chuck) option other than the one that screws on the outside of the spindle nose. If you don't need that capability, then you have the option of mounting a regular jacobs chuck to a morse taper adapter or a(homebrew) adapter that screws on the outside of the spindle. If you go with the morse taper there are several factors to consider: - If you use a large drill in a tailstock chuck attached to a morse taper, it is recommended that you clamp a dog on the rear of the drill to prevent the morse taper adapter from slipping (spinning) in the socket. This isn't an option for a morse taper mounted in the spindle, but you can use a draw bar to tighten the morse adapter in the spindle socket. Hopefully you can get it tight enough that it won't spin in the socket. - If you are using the morse taper chuck in the spindle to drill small holes, the compression loading will force the adapter into the socket and everything will be good. If, however, you are trying to turn small pieces held in the drill chuck, the radial loading will tend to walk the morse taper adapter out of its socket. You can avoid this problem by using a drawbar. (This problem would not occur on a Jacobs chuck that screwed on the outside of the spindle.) The screw-on, thru-hole, Jacobs chuck sure sounds like a nice-to-have accessory. Regards, Ed Bailen - Lake Travis, TX ------- Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:10:25 -0000 From: "zzz_zinger" Subject: Re: Jacobs Chuck for 6" Atlas/Craftsman > (i don't know, if they made one for the 1x10" spindle nose) I must apologize for getting into this thread late and I tried to catch up but I see that it has taken a turn toward a slightly different direction. So before it is squashed in the trample, I thought I would get a few comments in on the subject. Atlas Press sold me my 6" lathe in the early 70's and I think that I also bought - based on several machinists recommendations - every attachment and accessory that Atlas Press made at that time. I have 3 jaw, 4 jaw, collet/drawbar set and a headstock chuck. I also have lots of other items but for the time being, the discussion is on the HS chuck. It is a Jacobs 56B Capacity 0-17/32" with 1-10" threads. It has been on the spindle twice. Once when I got it and again today. It does have a through hole about the capacity of the spindle. However, when I turn small stuff, I use a collet. If the small diameter rods of any great length require a through the spindle setup, I use my 3 or 4 jaw chuck. My Jacobs HS chuck has obviously been taken care of and does not have the slighest bit of rust. This is not a sales pitch but rather a passing of thoughts. I have never had a requirement to use the HS chuck and would not have bought it unless it was absolutely needed. If one likes to tinker, go for it. But the accuracy of the Jacobs versus the 3 jaw is not any better. At least that is my situation. The HS chuck would be low on my priority list. I now have a SouthBend Heavy 10, 2 -4jaws, new Bison 3 jaw, and all round, hex and square 5C collets. I do not use a HS chuck on it nor do I intend on buying one or forcing a fit for one. Just my opinion and applies to my use of equipment. Your mileage may vary. Jim-M ------- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:59:36 -0000 From: "tomin130" Subject: Re: faceplate In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "hartloff2000" wrote: > hi I have a Atlas 6 inch lathe. I need a face plate and a three > jaw chuck. It has 1x10 spindle. Little Machine Shop sells the face plate you need, their part # 1791. They also have the same faceplate in 1"-8 and 1 1/2"-8 threads. It is available for 3" and 4" 3-jaw chucks (and also 4- jaw) www.littlemachineshop.com, (800)981-9663. Wholesale Tool, www.wttool.com, is still selling their 4", 3-jaw chuck for an excellent price ($36.00, part # 1902-0003) as well as a 3" 3-jaw ($39.00, part # 19002-0050). I have bought both a face plate from LMS and a 4" 3-jaw from WT for my 10" Atlas. The holes in the faceplate were perfect for the chuck but you will still need to true up the faces while mounted on your lathe, counterbore the threads, and machine the faceplate to fit the chuck recess. I have no connection to either of these companies except as a satisfied customer. Tom ------- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:21:33 -0000 From: "karlw144" Subject: how to center chuck I recently picked up a Bison 5C collet chuck for my lathe. I mounted a backplate on the spindle, turned a short stub tennon on it where the chuck would "just" go on. Then I used a transfer punch to mark 3 mounting holes, center drill, drill, tap, etc. Put everything together and I have .0025 runout. I tried several sizes of collets and the result is the same. I re-mounted the chuck and backplate (indexed 120 and 240 degrees) and the runout stayed the same, but the high and low spots were at different locations. I cleaned all the threads and mating surfaces, nothing changed. I used dowel pins or drill rod in the collets. What do I do now?? Help, karl ------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:51:42 -0000 From: "karlw144" Subject: Re: how to center chuck "hooya10_4" wrote: > Did you skim a light facing pass on the backplate? I did a light cut, about .002 and tried everything again, no change. Still need some ideas, thanks ------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:29:30 -0000 From: "hooya10_4" Subject: Re: how to center chuck > I did a light cut, about .002 and tried everything again, no change. > Still need some ideas, thanks I don't know, Karl...an indicator should be showing the stub & face of the backplate as running true, after turning & facing. If the collet chuck is firmly seated, and the chuck clean...that kinda leaves only the chuck as the culprit. This is not an adjustable one, like a Buck, with TIR adjustment screw's??? This site may help. http://www.jamesriser.com/Machinery/5cColletChuck/5cCollet_Chuck.html Good luck. - John ------- Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:09:59 -0400 From: "James Balsley" Subject: Bison 4" collet holder on 6" atlas I have a craftsman/atlas 6" lathe with the 1"x8 threaded spindle. I recently acquired the new Bison 4" 5c collet holding chuck and have machined the backplate. It is quite satisfactory in all respects but one. The back of the standard collet stops project too far back and interfere with the spindle, preventing the collet from being drawn up fully. I'm making several identical clocks and a spindle stop would speed up some of the machining tasks considerably. I'm thinking of making a very long stop which would fit into the back end of the spindle and project through the spindle, the collet holder, and into the collet to serve as a stop. Has anyone done this before, or am I on my own here? ------- Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:36:14 -0400 From: "James Balsley" Subject: RE: Bison collet chuck You have several alternatives. Earl bower makes a chuck for the atlas which uses 3C chucks. I have one of these but they are limited in diameter, and are not as convenient as I would like, so I bought a 4" 5c chuck from New England Brass and Tool. I haven't seen these anyplace else. The website is www.brassandtool.com. They have Bison chucks, which are very high quality and made in Poland. They have a 4" chuck which has a plain back. You will need to get a 4 " 3 hole plain back chuck adapter. You can get one (without the holes) from New England Brass, or you can get one with the holes from www.hhip.com. In either case, you will have to machine the adapter plate to fit the chuck on your lathe. This is a pain, but gives you the best possible fit cause it removes all the runout caused by your spindle. The chuck is about 275 dollars and you will pay some amount, not very much, for the adapter plate. If you have the 1"x10 threads, you will have more options. 1"x8 are hard to come by. I have been making arbors using 5c collets to hold the stock and there is only about 5 ten thou runout in about an inch. This is really very good for this kind of setup. I wanted the top to work cause I'm making several of the same kind of clock and need multiple identical parts -- the stops shorten the setup time. Unfortunately the spindle on the 618 is too small in diameter to let the stock Bison stops be used with this chuck. Other than the cost, however, I highly recommend the bison chuck. You have some Chinese alternatives for less money if you are willing to go to a 5" chuck, but that is a little big for this lathe. If you need it to be really accurate, Bison makes a more accurate type of chuck for many more bucks, but the smallest size appears to be 5 inches, and the available adapter plates won't fit the atlas. If you really needed it, you could probably make the adapter plate. ------- Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:08:34 -0500 From: xlch58x~xxswbell.net Subject: Re: Back gears > With the bull gear pin in and the back gears engaged, you have locked > the spindle. Handy when you have a chuck to remove. Mert Thus reads the epitaph of many a fine bull gear gone early to its grave...... This is a quick way to remove a chuck normally, but if it doesn't come loose with moderate force beware especially on the atlas since the parts in question are pretty fragile comparatively . A lot of lathes have had their bull gears busted removing stuck chucks. I tend to remove them from an atlas by pinching the belt with my left hand with an adjustable wrench on one jaw of the chuck. A loose grip on the belt will slip before I mess up a jaw. If I need more force, I chuck up a piece of hex stock and use a socket wrench on it. On my Sebastian I drilled the backplate to match a face pin spanner I had on hand. I keep meaning to drill a hole in the spindle just behind the register to mount another radial pin spanner to, but haven't yet had the time or guts. I full well mean to when I have a stuck chuck, but always chicken out once the chuck is loose. Charles ------- Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:29:25 -0700 From: William Abernathy Subject: Re: Back gears I have a manual for the 12" Atlas-Craftsman. Under the heading "TO REMOVE CHUCK OR FACE PLATE" it says: "1. Place board under chuck to protect bed ways, rotate chuck until wrench hole is on top. Lock spindle by engaging back gears. Place chuck wrench in base and pull. If chuck doesn't release, tap BASE OF WRENCH lightly with a mallet. Remove chuck carefully so as not to damage spindle threads. Disengage back gears. 2. To remove face plate, lock spindle by engaging back gears and tap slot in face plate with a lead or brass hammer in a counterclockwise direction. Remove face plate carefully so as not to damage spindle threads. Disengage back gears. This is how I've always gone about it, to no ill effect. I don't, however, doubt that the effect you've described is real, and that chuck removal using this technique may well damage the gears. Is this only a problem with dirty spindles or rusted-on chucks? If I do find my chuck in such a bind, do you reckon the indexing holes to be a better or worse option for fixing the spindle? William ------- Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:37:36 -0500 From: xlch58x~xxswbell.net Subject: Re: Back gears As I said, it is an OK process to use normally, as long as the chuck comes loose with moderate force. Stuck chucks seems like a whole specialty in itself. Typically, in a lathe seeing lots of use ( i.e. chuck not stuck due to corrosion or rust) the chuck gets jammed because the operator was in a hurry and failed to clean the threads on the spindle and chuck backplate well before mounting. Also any burr in the back of the backplate where it meets the register face on the spindle will really cause a jam. This is because it is almost imperceptible to the operator when they screw it on, but once the turning operation tightens the chuck down, the burr will cause it to cock slightly and the grip is pretty incredible. I think stuck chucks was one of the major drivers for modern lathes using a cam operated taper mount. So you are fine as long as it is coming off easy as has obviously been the case for you so far, but if it won't let go, take a good look at the parts in question and then think through the forces you are applying. If you have never had a stuck chuck then you are probably both a very conscientious operator and blessed. I have seen someone trying to remove a chuck with a four foot cheater bar before (not from an atlas, but from an old Hendey) I have several different lathes and also work in other peoples shops from time to time, so I try to develop habits that can be transported from machine to machine, i.e. pinching the belts together and using a wrench on the jaw. Charles ------- Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:36:40 -0400 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: headstock spindle adapter? - 1/2" to 1 " "Jon Kao" wrote: > > I have a Craftsman 109 that has a 1/2" 20 tpi headstock spindle > > with a 3", 4 jaw independent chuck, but I also have a really nice 4" > > Craftsman selfcentering chuck that I want to use with my lathe; > > unfortunately the 4" chuck has a 1" 8 tpi threaded hole. Does anyone > > know where I can buy a threaded insert for my chuck to make it 1/2" > > 20 tpi? Do they make such a thing? > > I guess I could make one using 1" 8 tpi all thread that had a > > 1/2" hole bored out of it and then taped with the proper 1/2 inch > > tap, but I was hoping to avoid making one myself because I'm new to > > the hobby (lathe) and a bit pressed for time. Cheers, Jon Kao >>> mertbaker wrote: This would be fairly easy to make right on your 109, and, in fact, that's really the only way that it could me made to run properly true on your machine. You would start with a 1"-8tpi bolt that fits the threads on the 3 jaw that you want to adapt. You will need only a short one, say 1-1/2" long. I can talk you thru the job if you wish. Mert <<< > Hello Mert, If you could give me some detailed instructions, that > would be great! I'd really appreciate it. Cheers, Jon Kao Okay. 1. Get the bolt. You don't want a grade 8 one, they are too hard for your lathe to machine. get one with about 1" of threads that fit your new chuck, one that is threaded right up to the head of the bolt. 2. Get it centered in your four jaw chuck, held by the threaded end. This is the most finicky part. Snug the 4 jaws up well, don't worry about a few nicks in the threads on the bolt. 3. Center drill the head of the bolt, & then drill right thru with a 3/8' drill. Follow with the tap drill for the 1/2"-20 thread, I forget the proper size, but will look it it up if you don't have the info. 4. Use the lathe to start the tap. Use a taper tap, rather than a plug tap. Turn the chuck by hand, and keep the tap supported on the TS center as it goes in. You can rest the tap wrench handle on the lathe bed. Use cutting oil on the tap. You will need about 3/4" of full threads in the bolt. 5. Now, carefully measure the diameter of the shoulder on your lathe spindle. On my 109 this is 0.988". You can take the chuck off the spindle to do this, but don't take the bolt out of the chuck. Next, turn a recess in the bolt head to fit this diameter exactly, and abut 1/4" deep. This can be done using an ordinary toolbit as a boring bar; you may have to grind more relief on the bit. Keep the sides of the recess straight, no taper. You can take the chuck off the lathe to try the fit, again, keep the bolt in the chuck. The bolt should turn right onto the spindle, nearly all the way on, all but the last 1/4" or so, which we will get to in a minute. 6. Now, note that the treads on your spindle don't go right up the the shoulder. There's maybe 3/16" of untreaded spindle there. You now want to bore out the threads in the bolt to this depth, so it will screw right up to the shoulder on the spindle. This is another locating surface, so you should measure the dia. here carefully & bore out the threads on the bolt to just fit. You take the chuck off the lathe to check. 7. Once this is done, and the bolt head faced true, take it out of the chuck & screw it onto the spindle of the lathe. Note that there are similar locating surfaces in the new chuck. all you need to do is to turn the bolt bolt head to fit them. This is the same job you have been doing, but now it's outside where you can see it. Leave what used to be the bolt, (now it's the spindle nose adapter), on the lathe spindle while you do all the fitting to the new chuck. You might want to leave a little of the original hex head on the adapter, so you can get a wrench on it to ease taking it off. When you are all done, you may find your adapter is too long; if so, just turn off the end to fit. Presto! Voila! Mert MertBakerx~xxverizon.net ------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:25:04 EST From: jmartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Traverse gear carriage [atlas618lathe] > Finally, since I'm going to thread the new spindle, anyone have a > suggestion on which TPI would be better to use (8 or 10 TPI) for > ease of chuck/backplate availability? 10 TPI is the more common, but you will find both. If you already have some chucks in one size, I'd stick to that one. Or, you could do what I did and make up adapters so you'll have both sizes. Why? Because my metal lathe is 1 x 10, and my wood lathe is 1 x 8. I made up two adapters so that I can use any of the chucks on any of the lathes. I often use the metal lathe three and four jaw chucks on the wood lathe. I have rarely used a wood lathe chuck on the metal lathe, except to make or modify one. I'd hold off on finishing the spindle nose until you have some chucks. The register is extremely important. Normally, you bore the register in the chuck to fit your spindle. In your case, though, you want to make sure that your spindle register is at least as large as the registers in all of the chucks you'll be using. It would be a shame to turn the spindle register now and then pick up a chuck with a larger one. John Martin ------- Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:22:38 -0800 From: "Joe Williams" Subject: Re: face plate [atlas618lathe] Al...the 10 tpi spindle [on the Atlas made 6" lathe] is actually a little more common than the 8 tpi, which is what I have. You should be able to get one on eBay easily, but it won't be cheap. Another way to do it is to make your own. Here's what I did. I went down to Blue Collar Metal Supply down on Florin Perkins road and I found a 1" nut with 8tpi that would fit on my spindle. I took that nut to a local welder up here in Shingle Springs and had him cut out a 5.25" diameter disk from 3/8" steel plate and weld the nut directly in the ceter of that plate. I then drilled a hole through the center of the plate so that my dead center would fit through the plate and the nut. Then I trued the surface of the plate on my lathe as you would need to do with any face plate. I also had to drill the hole for my lathe dog. The nice thing about doing it this way is that you can end up with a very nice custom face plate. Unfortunately, I didn't save a whole lot of money because that welder charged me $40.00 for the welding job. Oh well! Next I'll learn to weld! ;-) Good luck! Joe Williams -------- Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:48:24 -0800 From: "Lou Balleweg" Subject: Re: face plate When I first got my lathe, I made a crude face plate out of a short piece of 3/4" iron plumbing pipe and a 3/4" floor flange. Screw the floor- flange onto the pipe, clamp it in the lathe chuck and face the floor flange to true it with the spindle. Regards, Lou Balleweg ------- Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:52:04 +0000 From: cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net Subject: Re: face plate Little Machine Shop sells for $18.00 each plus shipping items 1917 and 1791, Chuck Adapters, 1" - 10 thread 4" diameter, which might do nicely as faceplates or the basis thereof. The one picture shows three holes near the outside for mounting the chucks they sell, but there are two descriptions. (They also have lots of other adapters, including for 1" x 8 tpi.) Charles ------- Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 17:00:50 -0000 From: "Paul" Subject: Re: Chuck Disassembly [atlas_craftsman] I prepared a file showing the construction of the old Atlas 5", self- centering chuck and what I did to disassemble it. The link to it is below. When space becomes available in our forum's file section I will place the file there. For those of you with a slow dial-up connection, this file contains photographs so it will take a while to download. http://home.comcast.net/~duncho/AtlasChuck.pdf Paul ------- Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:57:01 -0500 From: "Leo Reed" Subject: Help with stuck faceplate [atlas618lathe] Hey Guys! Today, I was going to work between centers. The belts were set to turn the spindle at 1250 rpm. I did not notice, but the faceplate was not threaded all the way on the spindle. Needless to say, when I turned on the power, the faceplate slammed into the shoulder on the spindle. Now, the face plate is stuck fast! I've tried bumping it loose, but it will not budge. I don't want to take a chance on ruining the back gears and I can't figure out how to hold the spindle fast. If anybody has a solution to this dilemma, I would appreciate that advice. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:02:15 -0400 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: Help with stuck faceplate Hi Leo: There are some discussions on unsticking chucks and faceplates in the file "Atlas Chucks General" in the Lathe section of my site. (Just search the file for the word stuck.) While some have been fortunate with locking the backgear and applying force, that would not be a first choice. Always a risk of breaking something that way with rather delicate Atlas parts. After ensuring the back gear and lead screw are not engaged, you could try pinching the two sides of the belt around the spindle pulley hard and then apply leverage to the faceplate (counterclockwise of course). The belt will slip before any harm can happen. Alternatively (perhaps if you are using a more slippery link belt), you could get a good grip on the spindle (at a gear or wherever) with one of those inexpensive strap wrenches from the local hardware store. The strap is a rubbery composite that will grip like heck but do no damage. The strap can be instantly unhooked and easily wound around some part of the spindle assembly before rehooking to the wrench handle and holding the spindle tight. These strap wrenches are sold in several sizes and you will want at least a couple for all sorts of jobs around the workshop, or house. [Very good for opening stuck jam jars when the better half is not there to watch you struggle. Then quickly hiding the wrench and presenting the open jar to her... "Aw shucks dear, no problem for a strong man like me."] regards Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:07:13 -0000 From: "n5kzw" Subject: Re: Help with stuck faceplate Leo, can you bring the headstock up to Austin? I made a spindle wrench to use when I have a stuck chuck or faceplate. If you can snake a strap wrench around the periphery of the bull gear, you can use it to safely hold the spindle while you use a hammer to tap a length of stock bolted to the faceplate. If you can find a way to fasten a piece of hex stock to the faceplate, and aligned (more or less) with the spindle axis, an impact wrench will probably get the faceplate off without requiring too much holding force on the spindle. Do you have access to a mill? I can send you the details of the spindle wrench I made, but you need to be able to bore a hole the size of the spindle collar. Regards, Ed ------- Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:04:02 -0000 From: "Rob Peterson" Subject: Re: Help with stuck faceplate At the risk of being hanged, why don't more people modify their spindle with a tommy-bar hole? You can drill the collar behind the threads even with a stuck chuck in place and use a tommy-bar to hold the spindle while you crank on the chuck to remove it. Alternatively, drill all the way through and use a pin spanner to hold the spindle while unsticking the chuck. RP -------- Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:03:23 -0500 From: "Leo Reed" Subject: RE: Re: Help with stuck faceplate Thanks to all who took the time to advise me! I'll keep these solutions in mind. However, after sitting down and thinking out the problem, I came to this solution... Knowing that the conventional methods were out, really tight, I decided on this method. I took my milling cutter holder, the one with the 1/2 inch hole and held by a draw bar and installed it. I then took a piece of 1/2" steel rod, ground a spot for the setscrew to bear on. On the exposed portion of the rod, I took a pair of vise-grips and locked onto it. I then put a wood protector on the bed ways to protect them. I positioned the face plate so that the open slot was where I could whack it with a hammer (a brass interface between). After 3 blows, each one a little harder, the plate let loose! Lucky for me the milling cutter holder kept the plate from flying off. As an aside, it looks like every time I have a big lunch and then go back to machining, I have a crash. Last time, I took the gears out of my mini-mill! My new pledge... take a nap after the meal and leave machining for later. 8-) Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:43:14 -0000 From: "n5kzw" Subject: Re: Help with stuck faceplate > Yes, Ed, I have a mill. If you will, post a description of the wrench. > Sounds like a good item to have around. I don't know, Leo. I think I like your method better. (I knew I held on to the drawbar and mill holder for a reason.) At the scrap yard, I picked up some mild steel that was about 1/4" by 2" in a variety of lengths. I cut two straps about 2' long, and two about 4" long. I used an acetylene torch to heat the straps and wrap one end of each around a 1/2" bolt. I laid the straps edge to edge with a 1/2" rod through the 'cylinders" on the end of the straps, and clamped the straps together. At the other end of the straps, I laid the two short pieces across the flat ends of the straps and clamped the top and bottom. Then I match drilled them with a tap drill for a 1/4-20 bolt. One of the straps had several holes drilled, and the other only had one hole drilled for a pivot. Then I unclamped everything and tapped one of the short pieces for 1/4-20 in all holes. All of the holes in the other pieces were opened up to 1/4". On the long strap with the pivot hole, I radiused the edge of the strap so that it would pivot. Then I bolted everything together. The bolt that was the pivot bolt was long enough to extend through the sandwich, and then some, so I could put a jam nut on the end to hold the bolt without tightening the pivot point. Next, I slipped a long 3/8" bolt through the two cylinders with a big washer top and bottom. I put a nut on the end of the bolt and tightened it down with a 1/4" spacer between the edges of the two straps up near the cylinders. I bored a hole the size of the collar on the Atlas spindle right on the centerline between the two long arms of the wrench. It was centered about 3 or 4" from the pivot. At the same time, I drilled a large hole (also on the centerline) to clear the index pin on the front of the headstock. With the 1/4" spacer removed, and the nut on the 3/8" bolt tightened, the wrench grips the spindle collar quite wel