This file deals primarily with Atlas collets but there is much additional useful collet information in the file "Cutters Collets and Arbors" that applies to the Atlas machines. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2007 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ============================================================================ From: Art Herrick Date: Tue Jul 4, 2000 11:02pm Subject: Re: Collet System for 6" Atlas/ Clausing Hi ! Group Found a collet set up for my 6" ATLAS/CLAUSING lathe, Model 3950 (circa. 1974/1980s). Price is a bargain! Check out BEST WOOD TOOLS: http://www.store.yahoo.com/bestwoodtools/colsysfor2mo.html If your lathe spindle nose has a 1"-8 or 1"-10 thread with #2 MT, and the spindle bore is (mine is .525) I.D., your in business. Total cost $150.97, for draw bar, spindle thread guard, 7 collets (1/8" to 1/2" x 1/16" increments) and a machined aluminum collet storage stand. The owner of BEST WOOD TOOLS is Victor Arrighi: varrigh1x~xxt... E-Mail Victor (say I sent you) and give him the total length of your spindle and its Bore I.D., thread size on spindle nose, the dia. of hole in Gear Guard Cover and how far it is from the outboard end of the spindle to the Gear Guard Cover face, and the distance from the spindle nose to the flanged face that your 3 jaw chuck seats on. Also give him lathe manufacturer (i.e. 6" ATLAS/Craftsman, or other), Model No., and the serial number of your lathe. The aluminum collet storage stand (7 1/4"x1"x1 1/4" high) is nicely machined and is really a necessity (no collets banging around in a box or draw and nicking up the MT surface). It brings the collet cost down around, say $10 or $11 (or less) which is a bargain, when you buy the set. The one draw back is that because the draw bar is solid you can not pass long pieces of rod stock back through the spindle ... that is the price we pay for our small lathes. We do not have to worry about scrap from a production run, so I suppose it does not make any difference. I like the idea of easily chucking small pieces, and not having to work up close to a 3 or 4 jaw chuck. Example: 1/2" dia. stock seats itself 2 1/8" into the collet. Had a retired tool maker friend check my Collet System out ... well made and a bargain! Disclaimer: "I have no monitory interest in BEST WOOD TOOLS". Just thought this was something that a lot of people have been looking for. Art Herrick Westmoreland NH -------- Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:45:35 EDT From: Bambootomx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Collets for Atlas 10" lathe Back to the collet question. The ones advertised by Best Wood Tools require a draw bar to close them, and it appears that stock wont be able to be passed through the headstock. What I use is a MT 2 and MT 3 collet chuck assembly that uses ER series collets. Their runout is phenominally small, and the ability to collapse 40 thou in each collet makes them extremely economical while preserving a high degree of precision. I would think that the ones that Best Wood sells are designed to turn small wood items, such as pens, and might not be accurate enough for metal turning over the long haul. Look for the ETM brand collet chucks and collets in the J & L catalog, and also the MSC catalog. ------- Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:42:23 -0600 From: "Maxwell Sandford" Subject: Re: Collets for Atlas 6" lathe First, we are talking about the 6" not the 10" Atlas. (101.21400, for my 6" Craftsman.) Yes, the drawbar is 3/8-16 UNC--a length of plain Truevalue or Home Depot threaded rod. There is a brass bushing to seat the drawbar in the outboard end of the spindle hole and an aluminum turned handle to tighten the drawbar against the bushing. The collets are steel, well made and of course they simply pull into the MT-2 spindle. I found I have to tap out the collet to release it from the taper. You can simply back off the drawbar a turn and give the knob a rap with a shot-filled hammer, a plastic hammer, or a wood block. You could quite easily buy the collets alone (I got the set, but you can buy only one size, for example if you need only to hold a mill cutter), and make up the drawbar, bushing, and knob. The collet set is a nice addition to the 6", in my opinion, but it is true that you cannot use it and pass long lengths of small diameter stock through the headstock. However, it sure beats working close to the jaws of a chuck for close work on small diameters. ------- Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 05:27:28 -0000 From: fyunchx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: MT2 Collets #2MT collets do have a through hole---3/8" thread. You can make up a hollow drawbar to pass 3/16" stock. The higher knockout force comes because the long shallow taper is intended to grip. It's not practical for production, but works when just a few parts are needed. W.C. Gates ------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:53:47 GMT From: Subject: Best collet choice? I have the opportunity to buy a collet adaptor for my MT3 1 1/2-8 spindle machine. I can get one for either 3AT or 3C, same price. I know Atlas used the 3AT collet, but I hear they are tough to get, not made except as specials, and expensive. (Like about $60 per from Clausing, for what they still have.) Don't know much about the 3C other than it is the same as is used on South Bend of similar sizes. And I understand it is still made. Any opinions on which is better? How about relative availability of these? Relative price? The 5C chuck option is not on the table, it is a drawbar setup or nothing right now, cheap 5C notwithstanding. Thanks for any info Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:49:22 EDT From: WBHINKLEx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Best collet choice? i have bought some 3AT collets from Victor Machine, New York. i think they were around $20.00 for some and a few special ones for $38.00 each bill hinkle in Oklahoma ------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:32:30 -0700 From: Rick Kruger Subject: Re: Best collet choice? The Victor catalog I have shows 3ATs at a range of $17.50 to $23.90 and 3Cs a range of $20.90 to $26.50. 3AT and 3Cs look very similar, with the 3ATs looking to be shorter. Does anyone know what these are designed for/most used for? I assume the 3Cs are meant for lathe spindles since they are a smaller version of 5C and that's were I've seen 5Cs before. Don't know a thing about the AT type. One thing to keep in mind is that both of the 3AT and 3C will take more collets to cover any given range of sizes than the ER style. That translates into more cost, so you may want to consider the ER type even thought there may be a higher initial cost of a collet holder/chuck. What do you mean about the 5C not being a consideration due to the drawbar required? Both the 3AT and 3Cs also require a drawbar. What is the difference that makes the 5C out of the question? That would be one advantage to the ER type, no drawbar. Rick K. Portland, OR ------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:42:53 -0500 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Best collet choice? > What do you mean about the 5C not being a consideration due to the > drawbar required? 5c won't fit the spindle, requires a chuck, which sticks out 3 or 4 inches, and cost 3 times what the drawbar setup for the others will cost me. ------- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:33:42 -0000 From: "Horace Steven" Subject: Re: Best collet choice? Many years ago I bought used 3AT collets from Sobels in NEw Jersey fairly cheap, some were new. He had abig wood crate with MANY of them at that time (1992?). I made a holder from the shank of a MT3 drill and a homemade drawbar, worked well. Steve ------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:35:31 EDT From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Best collet choice? In a message dated Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:32:30 -0700, Rick Kruger writes: << The Victor catalog I have shows 3ATs at a range of $17.50 to $23.90 and 3Cs a range of $20.90 to $26.50. 3AT and 3Cs look very similar, with the 3ATs looking to be shorter. Does anyone know what these are designed for/most used for? I assume the 3Cs are meant for lathe spindles since they are a smaller version of 5C and that's where I've seen 5Cs before. Don't know a thing about the AT type.>> *** I posted the following to the Logan list where I also saw Jerry's question. Hope this is helpful. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. *** << 3AT is an Atlas standard, used on their 12" and 10" lathes, possibly the 9" also, and evidently by some others such as Logan(?). I just checked the Atlas price list, they still offer *almost* all the collets at prices from $56.44 to $84.18 per collet. They may also be available elsewhere at a lower price. 3C is a Hardinge standard and, while not as readily available as 5C, was still available fairly recently. If nowhere else I'm certain you can get them from Hardinge, at what price I have no idea. (Hardinge can probably also supply 3ATs.) South Bend used a 3SB which, as far as I can tell, was identical to 3C. For myself, I would lean towards 3C over 3AT unless I was trying to equip a machine with "Original Equipment" or already had some 3AT collet gear. >> ------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:59:59 -0700 From: "Larry Bailey" Subject: Re: Re: Best collet choice? I am following this thread with some interest as I need to equip my 12" with a collet setup that would also be useful on my R8 spindle mill. I have been thinking about the ER system as chucks are readily available for both machines. I also like the TG100 system except that I haven't been able to find a chuck with a MT3 shank. I wonder if the members of the Group think that the 3" projection inherent in the ER collet chuck is a big problem as far as rigidity in the lathe. Obviously sticking a collet in the spindle would be best, but that would require a different lathe for a spindle bore of any size. Thanks, Larry ------- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:18:20 EDT From: WBHINKLEx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Best collet choice? also the 3At comes in hex and square collets. bill hinkle in Oklahoma ------- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 04:07:03 -0400 From: "Matthew King" Subject: Re: Best collet choice? + lathe work question According to the Traver's catalog (with whom I've had EXCELLENT service, price, and speed in shipping, by the way) round 3AT AND 3C collets are both readily available in sizes from 1/16" through 1/2" in 1/64" steps. That makes 29 round collet choices. The 1/16-7/64 are 24.90 each, while the 1/8-1/2 are 19.50 each. They show the two side-by-side. The 3AT is a fair amount shorter and is listed as '.637" x 26 thread" while the 3C is listed as '.640" x 26 thread'. Travers doesn't list any hex or square collets for these sizes. J&L Industrial doesn't list the 3C nor the 3AT collets, only the 3J collet, a SIGNIFICANTLY larger item. MSC Industrial lists a handful of 3C collets for 26.59 each, while a smaller selection of 3AT collets are 29.79 each. They list sets for the following(better sit down): 7piece 3C 178.69, 3AT 207.00. 13 piece 3C 332.05, 3AT not available. 25 piece 3C 626.17, 3AT 723.63. Ouch - sets are expensive yet still a savings over individual prices. ------- Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 05:12:36 -0000 From: fyunchx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: question about collets for the 618 101.21400 Two more reasons for using collets: 1. Working on tiny parts is nicer without having to avoid spinning chuck jaws. 2. When working on thinwall tubes, collets grab more securely and don't distort the part like chuck jaws. Now--what collets to use and where to get them---- The 6" lathes have a #2 Morse Taper in the spindle. You can purchase #2 MT collets (can use up to 1/2" size) from MSC Direct, or occasionally on eBay. For occasional work, you can get just the 1/2" collet and make slotted adapter sleeves of brass, plastic or aluminum, as needed, to hold smaller diameter work. You will have to make up your own drawbar, bushing, and bushing nut. You will probably have to run with the change-gear cover open unless you enlarge the spindle hole in it. If you make a hollow drawbar, you can work on long rods up to 3/16" diameter. You also need to get or make up a spindle thread protector. Note--these #2MT collets are not quick-release type-you have to tap on the drawbar to release them. If collet and work are kept oiled, this is not usually a problem. I made up a set for me, and can send drawings of the drawbar, thread protector and bushing if you want to go this way. Alternatively, you can watch for a set of original Atlas 6AT collets with nosepiece, drawbar and bushing. They have come up once or twice a year on eBay, and typically sell for a small fortune. Headstock chucks also come up 3-4 times a year. Also--for working on rods 1/8" dia and under, a small precision pin vise held in the chuck works fine. Finally---for most jobs, an adapter sleeve held in a chuck will work as well as a collet, and can be made much easier than obtaining collets. W.C. Gates Santa Cruz, CA ------- Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 01:34:15 EDT From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: question about collets for the 618 101.21400 This question was asked about a week ago at a time when my work schedule had me exhausted. My appologies for not having responded more quickly. The native collet type for the Atlas-built 6" lathe is 6AT or M6-750, two names for the same design. By native I mean that this is the collet system designed by Atlas Press to be used with their 6" lathes. The 6AT/M6-750 Collet System uses an M6-751 Collet which has a main body diameter of .500" and is .750" maximum diameter at the forward end of the closing taper. Standard M6-751 collets have an internal clearance bore of 19/64" and were available in 5 sizes, 1/16" through 5/16" by sixteenths of an inch. For a 2MT spindle bore the 1/2" body diameter is the largest that can be provided while using a 17/32" hollow drawbar, the largest to go through the Atlas spindle. As has been mentioned by others, an alternative "native" option would be 2MT collets which can be had with up to 1/2" capacity. Two drawbacks to the 2MT collets are that they are not self releasing, meaning they have to be driven out, potentially damaging to the spindle's roller bearings, and that the drawbar is not hollow, limiting the length of stock that can be passed through the MT collet. There are a couple of other options for collets in a 6" Atlas-built lathe. A different adapter-type collet could be used in place of the M6-751 (by adapter-type I mean where a closing adapter has to be inserted into the 2MT spindle bore). One collet which could be adapted is 2C, similar to the 3C and 5C that many people are familiar with but with a main body diameter of 29/64" and a maximum diameter at the forward end of the closing taper of 5/8", both figures smaller than those on the M6-751, while the maximum capacity is 11/32", greater than that of the Atlas collets. I'm not suggesting that 2Cs will be easy or inexpensive to come by, merely that it is an alternative to the native Atlas type which will also not be easy or inexpensive to acquire. There may be other alternatives (10 MM.?) which would also be superior to the Atlas collets. The other option for collets for the Atlas-built 6" lathes is to make a new spindle carrying the collet type of your choice *directly* in the spindle bore, no adapter, no 2MT bore, rather a through bore of 17/32" becoming the closing taper at the nose of the spindle. Using this method and a collet designed specifically to suit these requirements, it should be possible to have a clear passage through the drawbar of at least 3/8", possibly as much as 7/16". Hope the above information and ideas are useful to those of you with Atlas-built 6" lathes (and others). Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:08:40 -0000 From: "gjameson1" Subject: home made collet closer Hi, i have recently become interested in using collets to hold work on my 10" atlas. I know collet closers are available from time to time on ebay, but has anyone made their own? If so would you be willing to share the plans. I have not seen one close up, so i realy dont know the intricacies of how they work. Is it simply a draw bar that pulls a 5c collet into a receiver? Will 5c collets even work on the 3mt spindle without some sort of adapter. thought about buying a 5c Bison collet chuck but if it can be made...why not. thanks, Gene ------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:25:43 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: home made collet closer I made one, but for 3C collets not 5C. Really pretty easy to get it done, No fancy plans needed. There is a collared part with OD to fit the spindle taper, ID to closely fit the collet, and the proper tapered area for the draw-in. There is a piece of pipe to go thru the bore with an ID thread to fit the collet, and a handwheel and bearing on the other end. A refinement is another part to go on the spindle threads to protect them and also act as a jackscrew to remove the collar when you are done. The 5C won't fit your spindle, which is why I made a 3C size. I wanted the accuracy of an in-spindle collet, not a glorified chuck with the long stick-out distance of the Bison. Reference a recent issue of HSM /MW which has plans for a 5C closer, but much more complicated than needed, IMHO. Jerry ------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:15:45 -0800 From: Frank Evan Perdicaro Subject: Quickie collet closer > Subject: home made collet closer > Hi, i have recently become interested in using collets to hold work > on my 10" atlas. I know collet closers are available from time to > time on ebay, but has anyone made their own? If so would you be Here is the simple version of what I did to close the 3MT collets I bought from Victor Go to Home Depot and buy a 24" section of 3/8" coarse threaded rod, and a package of 2 coupling nuts. Thread the rod into 1 collet. Insert collet/rod assembly into headstock. Thread on a coupling nuts. Run one nut down so it is inside the spindle by about 1/4"; this will locate the rod so it is nearly centered. No, it is not centered, but close. If the cosine error is enough to bother you, then you are a good enough machinist to have no reason to read this note. You might add some loctite. Use any round gizmo of about the right size, drill 7/16" hole in it and put it over the rod. Thread on the other coupling nut and tighten the collet. Cut off the remaining threaded rod with a hack saw. Total cost is about $5. Total time is about 5 minutes. ------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:22:58 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: home made collet closer You must have decided to use those 3AT collets! The outside obviously fits your spindle taper, which you can arrange by indicating on the inside of the spindle while you aline your compound to suit. You won't need to go any further than ompound travels for a 3C, probably also for the 3AT. Leave a nearly full thread minor diameter sized collar on the front (big) end , and turn the taper so it will leave about 0.150 between the nose and collar for the nose protector to fit under to pull it. For the inside, bore that after turning the outside, bore and finish with it in the taper. Go to www.zagar.com where most current collet types are fully dimensioned. I did the 3C right from their dimensions, and the first one slid in like butter. About 0.001 clearance or so on bore. Front taper was also right on after setting compound with an angle block and indicator similarly to the inside taper. Subsequent Hardinge and Royals have fit like gloves also, so the dims given are good. When using the indicator, you may have some shake in the needle, but there should be NO trending one wy or the other. Oh, and "indicator" in this case refers to the variety with a lever on the end, not the pushrod type which is also often simply called an "indicator". Jerry ------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:26:49 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Quickie collet closer Since you have a lathe, I suggest taking the 10 minutes added time to turn a collared bushing to a close fit in the spindle tail with a clearance hole for the all-thread. It will lead to less bending of the all-thread, and will protect the spindle end. The collet should seat straight anyhow, since it is a full-contact type. Jerry ------- Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:30:38 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Question from my vast ignorance. > Is there a place where the definition of the different types > (eg, 3-C,5-C, etc) of collets are given? I have a large set of verya > small collets for jewelers lathe, and I see many types at a local > machinery surplus house. Any help will be gratefully recieved. > Bill 6-18 owner (x2) Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill > Woodville, Alabama, US 35776 (in the N.E. corner of the State) > W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr baycockx~xxHiWAAY.net w4bsgx~xxarrl.net A number of the most popular are dimensioned in detail on www.zagar.com . The Logan site gives insufficient info for any more than a cursory determination of type, sometimes not even that. Hardinge workholding also has dimensions for several types, again not complete. My Machinery's handbook has almost no such info. Jerry ------- Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:48:50 -0600 From: "Skip Evans" Subject: Re: Question from my vast ignorance. Try this. It has all kinds of references. http://shopswarf.orcon.net.nz/sindex.html ------- Subj: [atlas_craftsman] collets for Atlas 618 Date: 2/10/02 1:51:03 PM Central Standard Time From: ebowerx~xxlcsys.net (Ebower) To All, I am Earl Bower and run Bower Machine & Tool. I design and manufacture accessories for the Atlas 6" lathe. (I also manufacture for commercial work). The shop is in my home and I work out of my basement (that is the full shop). I am located in Pennsylvania. I have the complete design (now obsolete from Atlas/Clausing) for the collet attachment and the collets. I also have come up with a collet set that will allow stock up to 1/2 thru the spindle and go up to 5/8 dia. I am offering this to the group first (been a member of the group for quite some time) then I will be advertising in Home Shop Machinist. Give me the rest of the week and I will have pictures of both attachments in the files section of the group. There will be a text along with it with prices. I will be offering both as sets and as individual collets. I will try to get the pictures up on the group by this week end. Due to exporting problems, I can only offer this to anyone in the 48 USA. This will not be a spam deal. I will only offer it once a month or so. I do also have other items that fit the Atlas 618 and Model 3950 lathes. Also, to the ones that have 9/10" and 12" Atlas I have a limited number of accessories for these two lathes manuafactured by Atlas. I am working on the attachment for these two lathes for collets as well. Earl bower machine (been in business for the hobbist since 1985). Atlas 6", Atlas 10", AAA/Craftsman, 9" South Bend, and 12" Grissly. ------- Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:52:41 EST From: JMartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: One more Collet Note Not sure I saw anyone mention the WW collets which also can be used in the lathes. I have a 6" Atlas/Craftsman, which came with an adapter and a couple of dozen collets. The WW collets are the small ones that you usually see with watchmakers lathes - go up to .250 or slightly larger. Made my own drawbar for them. Get lots of use at Pinewood Derby time for truing wheels and polishing axles. Most of my other work is larger. While there are a number of collets designed to be used without drawbars, they are almost always of a double taper design and are closed down by pressure from a threaded cap or similar piece. You may find some Morse collets designed for neither drawbar nor cap, but these are for holding drills and especially center drills where the heavy end pressure keeps them from slipping. John Martin ------- Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:09:58 -0000 From: "WThanel" Subject: 6AT collet closer for the Atlas 618 Just though I would write a quick note about collets for the Atlas 618. I have been looking for an original 6AT collet setup for some time now. I saw they were available for the 618 at some point but are no longer available from Clausing. I found the 6AT collets on Ebay and contacted Earl bower about making a collet closer attachment. I received my 6AT collet closer from Earl Bower. It is similar in quality and design to the Royal products collet closers I have seen in the past for other lathes without the high costs. It is of steel construction with a nicely sized chrome plated handle. It also features a ball bearing thrust bearing between the handle and spacer for ease of use. It comes with the handle thrust bearing, spacer and collet/spindle adapter. All in all I would say I am very happy with it. The 6AT collets are very hard to come by but luckily Earl has the original specs and can make the 6AT collets. This setup has an advantage over the #2 morse taper collets in that material can be ran though the collets and spindle. Bill T. ------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:18:41 -0800 From: Rick Kruger Subject: Re: Want to build a collet chuck At 04:34 PM 11/18/02 -0800, "Skip Evans" wrote: >I want to build a collet chuck for my Atlas 12x36 lathe. >I have never seen a collet chuck up close. >1. Do the collets stick out of the chuck and into the spindle hole? >2. What collet type should be used? >3. I currently have a set of R8 collets for my mill. They will not extend >into the spindle hole. Would these work if the chuck was built to fully >contain the collet. >4. Where can I get info on collet dimensions? HELP!!!! Skip Evans At 12:51 AM 11/19/02 +0000, "Derf" wrote: >I have a collet set that came from a Southbend, I think. It has a >drawbar, thread protector, and a little sleeve that has 3MT taper on >the outside and 3AT collet taper on the inside. Depending on what >you want, you may think of getting the 3MT collets from somewhere >like lathemaster.com. If you don't need a through hole, the 3MTs may >be for you. If you need a through hole, I think the 3AT style goes >up to 1/2" or so. Cheers, Derf Skip, 3C collets allow up to 1/2" thru spindle stock holding, as apparently the 3ATs do. To get up to 3/4" or so, I've gone to ER spring collets and in the process of making a chuck for a 1 1/2" x 8 tpi spindle (SB 9 & Atlas 10). It will use the front locking nut from the 3MT drawbar arbor/chuck that came with the ER set. That 3MT holder is used on my minimill for holding end mills, so the ER set does double duty. 5C collets in a spindle mount collet chuck would get you a short distance of larger diameter holding ability, but only as much as your spindle hole goes for thru spindle stock. There is a good 5C collet chuck design in one of the Village Press mags. (HSM or MW) that's been discussed on some other groups recently. (Metalworking One. The Best of Projects in Metal, page 54 Pat Loop. Make Your Own Collet Chuck). 5C collets are a whole lot easier and cheaper to obtain than 3Cs. Generally, with 3C or 5C, the collets only compress about 1/64th of an inch (0.016"), so you need a lot of them to cover the full range of sizes you might need. ER spring collets compress almost 3X that much so you need fewer of them to cover the range. You could also buy a Bison 5C spindle chuck. Perhaps more spendy than you're thinking, but it would get you going quick and be a pretty nice tool to use. http://www.brassandtool.com/ It is available in a Set-Tru model too. You could also do pretty good for work holding with a good adjustable 3-jaw or 6-jaw scroll chuck. Its been said that with this type of chuck, one might not need collets at all (there are still reason). I have a Bison 5" 6-jaw Set-Tru chuck and have made an adjustable backplate for a Bison 4" 3-jaw chuck. With these, I can dial in the runout to close to 0.0001". I have a full set of 3C collets, but don't use them much because of having the adjustable chucks. So, why is it you want/need collets? Rick K. Portland, OR ------- Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:48:02 -0800 (PST) From: Skip Evans Subject: Re: Re: Want to build a collet chuck I guess I really do not need one. I saw a picture of one being built and thought it would be a good project. I have a 4-jaw chuck, but thought this would be a little faster. Skip Evans http://skipevans.homestead.com ------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:29:35 -0800 From: Rick Kruger Subject: Re: Want to build a collet chuck I'm sort of in you same position. Don't *really* need collets, but I sure do like working with them, so I got 'em. Learned to use collets in my Dad's shop some years ago, on a Monarch 10EE chucker. Popping parts in & out with a push/pull of a handle is nice. When I got a lathe of my own a couple years ago, I was determined to set it up with collets, but was dismayed at how expensive 3Cs could be and how hard to find. Wasn't until I got a South Bend 9A did I manage to come up with a set of 3Cs. Filled in the 64th sizes from a used tool dealer. Have around $400 into them now and still need a few of the smaller sizes. Collets would be lots faster than a 4-jaw. They also don't mark the work piece and can hold tubing. Do you not have a 3-jaw? Good luck in your search. Rick ------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:32:38 -0000 From: "Jim" Subject: Drawbar for Morse #3 collets I thought it might be good to share some information with the group. Recently I fabricated a simple drawbar to use on my Atlas/Craftsman 101.28990. A 10 inch 3/8-16 bolt was used. I removed the head and trimmed the overall length to 9 ½ inches. Next a 3-inch diameter straight bore hand wheel was drilled and tapped for a 10-32 setscrew. The hand wheel was installed at the cut end of the 3/8 bolt. A ½ OD, 1-inch long, 3/8 bore, bronze bushing was pressed into the bore of a flanged bronze bushing, this bushing has a 15/16 flange, and ¾ inch long with a ½ bore. The bushing assembly was slipped on to the shaft next to the 3-inch hand wheel. A small groove was made in the shaft, just below the bushing, to hold a 3/8-inch E-Clip. The E-Clip keeps the bushing in place. I allowed .030 clearance between the end of the bushing and the E-Clip to provide smooth operation. The hand wheel was purchased from ENCO. Part number 990-3277 for $8.87. A set of Morse #3 taper round collets was purchased from Little Machine.com. They are imports, not bad for my use, and cost $ 89.95 for a set of 11 that cover the range 1/8 to ¾ inch. The bronze bushings were purchased from a local industrial hardware store for $4.00. JIM --Las Vegas,Nv. ------- Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:54:15 -0800 From: Frank Evan Perdicaro Subject: Quickie collet chucks For the 10" and 12" lathes, you can buy a nut to screw onto the spindle. It is a standard McMaster Carr part, with a cost of a few dollars. Face and bore the nut to have a proper register, screw it on and then decide what collet to use. A simple ring welded in the nut will let you use MT 3 collets without a drawbar. Use of R8 collets requires a bit of weld then a cut to the R8 taper. Of course you can buy a real collet chuck, but by starting with a nut that screws on to the spindle you can get some useful results at low cost and small time investment. ------- Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:31:10 -0000 From: "pobryan2000" Subject: Re: Quickie collet chucks If you are going to weld a machined part I suggest you do it before you do the final machining as the welding will probably change the dimensions of the part. It might not even be round afterwards. Just my 2 cents. Pat ------- Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:46:43 -0000 From: "jdmichael2001" Subject: Re: Quickie collet chucks That's true, but in this instance it probably doesn't matter. If I'm following Frank's suggestion correctly, the nut and ring are only a hold-down for the MT3 collet. The spindle has an MT3 taper, so the collet actually registers with the spindle bore. If that's true, then the "face and bore to have a proper register" doesn't really matter either. I'm less clear how he envisions using the R8. If the nut is machined for the R8 taper, then it should be registered with the spindle and bored for concentricity. The key to prevent rotation is an open question, it would be more accurate with a bored hole to support the inside end of the collet, and an R8 does need a drawbar. Jan ------- Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:17:51 -0800 From: Frank Evan Perdicaro Subject: More on quickie collet chucks Yes, for MT3 collets the nut just has to press the collet into the bore. Simple and fast. But the nuts I have are much longer than the threading on the spindle, so they need to be bored to register on the spindle. Sure it would be possible to just tighten up the nut until it stops turning, but even hackers like me would probably not do that. For R8 you can add a sleeve to the inside of the nut, making as much of an R8 taper as you can. rough it out, then weld it in the nut -- remember the nuts are pretty long. Finish bore and you are almost there. Drill the assembly and add a pin. File the pin to shape for standard R8 and glue in with Locktite. Add a drawbar and you are done. Stepping back for a minute, do you really need a key? Probably not. If you are driving your Atlas spindle with a 2 hp motor you will be making a heap of broken parts. My Bridgeport has a 1 hp motor and no key; in practice there is not much of a problem having no key in the R8 bore. These are quickie collet chucks. You can buy nice ones in the $1000 range, but these can be done in the $10 range if you buy the nut and use some scrap. With a modest amouont of care you should be able to get runout perfectly acceptable for random shop/household use. ------- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:05:31 -0000 From: "psddiesel2000" Subject: Re: Turret Lathe Tooling --- In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Damon" wrote: > Just wondering why turrets always seem to have straight > shank tooling, but tailstocks commonly have tapered tooling. > My 10" Atlas has 3/4" bores in the turret and I'm also > looking at a W&S with straight bores. Any thoughts on why this is? > I'm tempted to bore out the atlas setup to MT. -Damon The majority of your mill tooling is round shank. The 3/4 shank is common on mill tools so you are set up for that. I have a turret that has interchangeable heads. One head is a combination of 1/4 and 3/8 holes with one #2 MT. The other head is 1/2 and 3/4 holes with a #3 MT. With the #3 MT I use a #3 MT collet set for variable sizing. Just some thoughts for you. ------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:02:58 -0000 From: "spider5911" Subject: collet Atlas offered an accessory for the 10"lathes called Draw-in Collet Chuck No.750. How many Split Collets were in a complete set? Scott QC54 ------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 22:17:07 -0000 From: "carbure2003" Subject: Re: collet Collets are available in 1/64" increment up to 1/2". Atlas was offering them in 1/32" increment starting at 1/32" Two different styles of collets will fit the Atlas lathe. The 750 collet chuck attachment is for 3AT collets. You can also fit 3C or 1A collets. Hardinge manufactures 3C collets to almost any size between 1/64" to 1/2. The important piece to have is the nose piece. The draw bar is easy to manufacture and I wouldn't buy it unless it is a deal! If you have the taper attachment, then it is easy to manufacture the nose piece. Guy Cadrin ------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:40:38 -0800 From: "Spurrs" Subject: Re: Re: collet If you are looking to buy collets, look for 3MT they will fit directly into a 10" spindle. All you need to make is the drawbar. The only drawback (sorry) is that the stock length is limited. It should not be too difficult to replace the drawbar with a nut over the spindle nose and push the collet closed instread of pull it, as with milling collet systems. Nigel ------- Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 03:54:58 -0000 From: "carbure2003" Subject: Re: collet At first I tried MT3 Collet. As you say you are limited for the length. You are also limited with the number of collets that are by increment of 1/16". I do a lot of model work and I found that it is a major advantage to be able to have an extra long rod in the headstock. In my case I chose 3C collets because they are much easier to find. Guy Cadrin ------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:14:09 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Re: collet The making of a closer is not that hard. All it takes is a decent indicator of the type similar to a "last word". Set compound up parallel to nose taper, and cut the taper on the blank. If its a little short of the full depth, that's fine, since the collet has to stick thru for drawtube threads. So the limited travel of the compound is OK. If you thread a drawbar hole in the end, you can then put the tapered blank in the spindle and bore the collet hole and closing taper. Bore the hole longer so you can cut off the drawbar end when done to allow the collet to fit through. For 3C, go to www.zagar.com and find the workholding page that has full dimensions for 3C and 5C, including taper angles, which most dimension drawings fail to give. By doing it in your spindle, and marking the position so you can put it back in the same position it was made, you may actually be more accurate than a generic toleranced one put in any old way. Jerrold ------- Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 01:46:48 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: Re: collet You don't need the taper att., as you can make the closer very easily with the compound set for the tapers. Mert ------- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:53:14 -0500 From: "Charles & Dorothy Brumbelow" Subject: Re: Re: Making a drawbar help needed. > Can someone here please give me the directions for making > a simple drawbar that will fit my 2MT collets with 3/8 x 16th ends. Down and dirty... Get a piece of 3/8" "All-Thread" rod at your friendly local hardware store along with one of the splice nuts for All-Thread and a standard hex nut to fit. Add a water (or other) valve handle with a boss large enough to fit or be drilled out to fit the All-Thread. Maybe get a small tube of Loc- Tite while you are there. Turn one end of the splice nut conical enough to center in the back of the spindle. Thread the rod into a collet and insert rod first into the spindle hole. Leave one or two threads in the collet unused. Screw the splice nut on the back of the rod snug against the spindle. Maybe Loc-Tite the nut to the rod but not the spindle. Next put the handle on the rod, Loc-tite again. Lastly put the regular hex nut on, once again Loc-Tite. Cut off any excess All-Thread. Get a piece of 1/2" brass rod, about the same length as the spindle, for tapping out the collet once the holder is unscrewed and removed. Charles ------- Re: 3C Collets [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "EARL BOWER" earl.bower1x~xxverizon.net Date: Thu Jul 6, 2006 8:52 am (PDT) John Williams wrote: > I have a factory 3AT collet setup for my 12x36 lathe. What will I have to do to make them compatible with 3C? Would like to be able to use regular 3C collets and maybe a 3C pot chuck and external closer from a SB9 on my lathe. Don't want to buy one if it won't work. The 3C seems close in every dimension except length is 6/16 longer. so, I may need to shim the drawbar. Will the 3at closer be ok or will I have to use a 3C one? Will the locating pin be compatible? None of the dimension drawings that I have looked at show measurements of the tapered section. Need to hear from someone that has really done this. Found lots of opinions on various sites but no firm facts...John < John: You will need to use the 3C collet adapter from the South Bend. As to the length of the tube you will have to use the South Bend and make a spacer. The spindle lengths are different as are the threads on the collets different. Earl Bower www.bowermachineandtool.com ------- Is there a collet holder for my new lathe, a 101.27440 [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Peter Maston" pmastonx~xxcomcast.net Date: Thu Nov 2, 2006 7:27 am (PST) I think the first thing I like to buy is a collet holder. Any help is appreciated. Peter ------- Re: Is there a collet holder for my new lathe, a 101.27440 Posted by: "Jay Greer" redwitch1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Nov 2, 2006 10:32 am (PST) Hi Peter: The original collet set up for the 6" Atlas is rather limited. So I set up a 5C collet chuck for the lathe. It is rather heavy and so I plan to set up a steady rest for it. Here is a site that shows the set up for the chuck. http://www.jamesriser.com/Machinery/5cColletChuck/5cCollet_Chuck.html Cheers, Jay Greer ------- Is there a collet holder for my new lathe, a 101.27440 Posted by: "Steve" skadsmx~xxpeoplepc.com Date: Fri Nov 3, 2006 5:49 am (PST) You have the same lathe as mine. It should have come with an adapter to fit 3AT collets in the spindle (the spindle is 3MT). If you have no adapter, no collets and no drawbar, a quick alternative to the 5C collet closer is to get a MT3 to 3C adapter. You can get one at: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/ See: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2240 3C collets are slightly easier to find than 3AT. The advantages over the 5c adaptor are cost and not having to machine anything (you will need to make or buy a drawbar as well). Advantage of the 5C unit, more collet availability and collet sizes up to a bit over 1" (unless you need something to go though the spindle, then you are limited to the spindle size). Steve ------- Is there a collet holder for my new lathe, a 101.27440 Posted by: "jdmichael2001" jdmichaelx~xxaol.com Date: Fri Nov 3, 2006 7:54 am (PST) Peter: You can make an adapter for ER-32 collets which take up to 3/4" stock through the spindle. (Or ER-40 if you want larger capability.) It is pretty straightforward and you can either make a closing nut yourself with english threads, or use the commercially available replacement nuts using a metric thread. I sell kits or complete adapters if you want to go that route at www.tallgrasstools.com. Jan M. ------- Model Numbers [atlas_craftsman follow up to collet question above] Posted by: "John Martin" jmartin957x~xxaol.com Date: Thu Nov 2, 2006 8:06 am (PST) I don't know about the rest of you, but I do know that I don't have a list of the lathe model numbers memorized. And I have no desire to do so. Someone just asked about a collet closer for a 101.XXXXX. He won't get an answer from me. On the other hand, if he'd added that it was an Atlas 6" with 1 x 10 MT2 spindle, I might have answered. I'm not picking on him - just an example. I don't need to know the bed length, whether it's overhead drive, QC gearbox or what the horsepower of the motor is. But I would think that just a little bit of relevant information would get a lot more answers. John Martin ------- Re: Model Numbers Posted by: "Peter Maston" pmastonx~xxcomcast.net Date: Thu Nov 2, 2006 9:15 am (PST) Sorry for that subliminal message about the collet attachment, but I will put more info down, next time I'm asking for a part for a particular lathe. Thanks for the tip. Peter ------- Re: Model Numbers Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Thu Nov 2, 2006 1:12 pm (PST) Wasn't aimed at all at you, Peter. There have been a ton of posters here who assume that we will know what their model numbers translate to. As to the collet attachment, it really depends on what you want it to do. The handiest collet adapters are those that fit inside the spindle, and use a hollow drawtube. But those limit your size the most. In a 6" MT2 spindle you're looking at WW collets, which go up to about 1/4". In a 10" or 12" MT3 spindle you're looking at maybe 3C collets, which go up to 1/2". You can use collets that directly fit the Morse tapers and will take larger diameters, but these generally work with drawbars that do not allow the work to pass through. You can get collet adapters which place the collets outside the spindle and allow you to use larger collets. You can have quite a bit of overhang with these. If they close using a front nut you'll have the maximum pass through size. John Martin ------- Re: Model Numbers Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Thu Nov 2, 2006 6:55 pm (PST) Atlas models are REALLY simple. There was the 6", 10" D and F, and early and late 12". 10" and 12" could come with change gears or quick-change. There were several bed lengths. But, a quick description pretty much tells it all. The Craftsman model #'s really give no clue except to those really familiar with them. I know a few of the model numbers that lasted for a long time. Craftsman assigned a new model number if Atlas changed one washer in the machine to a different part #. Actually, they assigned at least 4 new model numbers, for short and long bed and change-gear and QC. So, there are literally hundreds of model numbers that describe almost exactly the same lathe. Jon ------- Re: Precision collet closer for 12" Atlas lathe [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "James Sterner" jimmy163333x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:08 pm ((PDT)) scottbitner67 wrote: >> Hi, I am new to this group and I have a 12" atlas/craftsman lathe, I recently purchased a precision collet closer off e-bay, for this lathe, the problem is it doesn't fit properly, some modifications need to be done also I can't figure out how the collets lock into place. Is there anybody out there that has one, that can help me out?? I downloaded a couple pictures to the photo section. Thanks Scott << The hand lever goes towards the head stock. You put a collet in the spindle. Then with a little pressure towards the head stock turn the knurled nut on the outermost left hand side of the unit to screw it onto the collet, it might have a finger operated lock that would have to be opened if the whole spindle wants to turn with the knurled nut. (Going in or out with the knurled nut is what controls the final clamping pressure of the collet.) You put your stock or part in the collet and, to lock it in place, you move the hand lever away from the head stock till it kind of snaps out and locks in that position. To release your part, return the hand lever towards the head stock. This type of collet closer is best suited to do many same size part changes or adjustments quickly. ------- Re: Precision collet closer for 12" Atlas lathe Posted by: "Steve" skadsmx~xxpeoplepc.com Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:29 am ((PDT)) If you have an older lathe, I do not believe that the Atlas lever collet closer fits it (at least not without some creative modifications). I have an earlier one and the lathe has no attachment points for the collet closer. I would have to modify the left side covers for it to fit. The later lathe (see http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page5.html ) has the attachment points, and is the one shown in the instruction manual for the collet closer. Steve ------- Re: Precision collet closer for 12" Atlas lathe Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT)) Without knowing exactly what kind of closer and collets he has, it's hard to say precisely what to do. For instance, I have TG100 holders and collets for my milling machine. The TG collets require that the retaining ring be snapped on to the collets before they are installed in the holder. Try to screw the nut and ring down over a collet already in the taper and you risk damaging the collet. And, the ring may not seat. More specifics necessary. John Martin Cumberland, Maine -------