This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Users' tips for milling on an Atlas lathe, or any other lathe. Milling small parts on a lathe using the headstock to hold a milling cutter in a Weldon adapter (better choice), or collet (less secure choice) has long been practiced by some home shop machinists. This requires some sort of secure part holder mounted on the lathe carriage. Weaknesses of this method compared to a milling machine include often greatly reduced movement in one setup, and the frequent necessity to turn your head 90 degrees to see what you are doing, and potentially inadequate clamping that leads to a dangerous situation or accident. Lathes with an additional milling head adapter have the advantage of greater movement of the workpiece in one setup, and less neck pain, and possibly better clamping systems for increased safety. There is an interesting discussion of milling on a Sherline lathe, both on the lathe in the conventional way, or using an additional milling column mounted behind the lathe bed. (Sherlines can also mount a milling column on the bed in place of the headstock -- a third way.) See the text file Sherline Mods General for messages starting 04 March 2004. Sometimes milling is done in the lathe because that is all someone has; but a true milling machine is nearly always a far better choice. (Also many milling-type jobs can be done equally well on a metal shaper.) Okay, let's rephrase the last paragraph. I have just read Edgar Westbury's book "Milling in the Lathe" and have changed my mind. Yes there are some tasks and heavy milling operations better suited to a milling machine, but an incredible number of tasks can be carried out while milling on a lathe. The lathe can even be used for such tasks in a professional metal shop when the milling machines are tied up. See a more detailed review of his book further down this file in October 2011. Book is incredibly useful! Never compromise or risk your (or others') safety. Strongly consider having the milling for a project done by an experienced, capable friend with a milling machine (or shaper) -- or by a professional machine shop. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2015 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. =========================================================================== Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:04:53 EDT From: JMartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Home-made milling attachment for 10" lathe In a message dated 9/15/00, fkeesex~xxchemfab.com writes: << If anyone has done projects along these lines or has ideas or information about using the lathe for milling without investing a lot of money, I would appreciate your input. - Frank Keese >> I made up a simple milling jig for an Atlas 6" lathe. No Z axis travel, but quite a bit more rigid than a setup using the compound slide. Used a piece of 6" x 1/2" angle iron. Bored to fit over swivel for compound slide, drilled four holes at 90 degrees with setscrews and beveled plungers to engage pivot for compound. Thus - mounts on cross slide just as compound slide does. Set vertical face perpendicular to lathe spindle and tighten. Use 1-2-3 block against faceplate to adjust - use this for re-setting also. Used flycutter in lathe to face vertical face of angle iron. Then used 1/4" endmill to cut a locating groove, about 1/8" deep, across face of angle iron. By using a ground toolbit in the locating groove and parallels against it, I can locate and clamp a stop on the face pretty accurately. Takes a while to set up, but easy to run off multiple pieces when I do. As above, there is no vertical travel, but it makes up for that in rigidity. And the price was right. I'll pick up a real mill someday, but for now this jig and a shaper allow me to do most of what I need. John Martin ------- Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:33:38 EDT From: PIHPGSx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Home-made milling attachment for 10" lathe Hi: will just give it a shot in the arm. Almost every shop has some sort of drill pres vise. if you have a descent vise that is tight and two axis control about 25.00. you can bolt this to a stable chunk of angle then secure it to your tool post holer. you gain w/two more means of adjustment. Round stock can be also chucked by using v-ways. Just a thought, we do this quite often when no other remedy is available. ------- Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 03:53:13 -0400 From: "Steve Steven" Subject: Re: Home-made milling attachment for 10" lathe I made mine for my 10" Atlas using that idea, A 8" angle plate with a hole bored to clear the compound mount, with a thick washer and a 3/4" threaded hole bored thru the mount to hold it down. Dirlled and indexing pin a hole, then faced it off with a flycutter in place. Used a small drill press vise, drilling a series of threaded matching holes in vise and thru plate to adjust elevation of visce in 1 inch increments, used shims for finer adjustment. Worked fair, bought a mill. Steve ------- Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:25:56 EDT From: SLEYKINx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Home-made milling attachment for 10" lathe Ok .. here's what I did. I got a dovetailed slide I picked up on ebay for $25 and a block of aluminum from the scrap yard. I chucked it up in the four jaw and faced it square, then bored a socket to fit the cross slide. Then mounted the dovetailslide to the aluminum and a small palmgren drilpress vise to the slide. It works quite well and the solid block of aluminum is quite ridgid. I use either the Jackobs headstock chuck or some endmill holders I built to hold the end mills. The endmill holders screw onto the lathe spindle and since they are bored in place run quite true. Regard Glenn ------- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 14:51:01 -0300 From: "Harvey Noel" Subject: Milling attachments I just got a super buy on a 10" Atlas in great condition but very dirty. It had a lot of extras and was only $200.00 just down the street in a garage. But I wanted a milling attachment and one went for over $400 on ebay. Another one was put up and I lost it but don't remember what it went for. Grizzly has a end mill attachment for $189.00 new that with very minor modification (removing a screw and boring a hole in the base plus two threaded holed and presto done) You can see the attachment on www.grizzy.com Item #G1080. This may be better than a cheap mill. PS I did the boring on my Sherline mill. Harvey ------- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:12:56 -0500 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Milling attachments >>>Palmgren makes a very nice one, actually a whole line of them. We used to have one for our 6" Atlas. It was good quality, American made, and worked well for things like keyways, etc. Somehow it seems to have sprouted legs and walked off somewhere...<<< Yabbut, the darn Palmgren things are very flexible and loose due to the big overhang off the compound. You had a 150V, obviously, which BTW is no longer made. I have a 250, used on a 10" Logan lathe, and it just plain sticks out too far. Nearly 5" off the compound, giving it a lot of leverage and meaning that the least looseness equals a big movement. I consider 0.005 big in this context, and 0.001 in the compound will give nearly that way out at the end of the Palmgren. The Atlas type (somewhat similar to S-B) is vertically above the crosslide, and should be a lot firmer and less wobbly in most setups. In fact, my father-in-law has one adapted to his Logan 10", which seems quite nice. I think they would be worth looking for, although for $400 you can start to get a used milling machine or shaper, which will do a lot more, a lot better. Jerry ------- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 21:18:00 -0700 From: Frank Evan Perdicaro Subject: Comments on Milling de Palmgren I picked up one of these Palmgren units from a local place. First I posted here and told all of you to go get it. Nobody did, so I traded for it. My plan is to dovetail mill a block of 6061, and set it in place of the compound. I'll use brass gib and just lock the unit to the compound dovetail with 4 1/4-28 socket screws. The block will be tapped with an offset hole so I can bolt down the Palmgren with minimal overhang (0.25 inch). Am I missing anything in this plan. ------- Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:58:11 -0000 From: "Horace Steven" Subject: Re: Comments on Milling de Palmgren Sounds limiliar to the MLA (Metal Lathe Accessories) unit, they sell excellent cast iron kits to make horizontal milling tables and milling attachments for small Atlas and SB lathes, adaptable to other small lathes also. They have a web site. Heres the link... http://www.sc-c.com/metallathe/ Well worth a visit, quality materials. Steve ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:59:56 EDT From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Anyone Have Milling Attachment Plans? In a message dated Mon, 22 Oct 2001 01:33:38 -0000, Jeff writes: << I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for a homemade or temporary milling attachment for a 6" Model 101.21400 Craftsman. I want to mess around a bit before investing in the real deal and perhaps thought somebody had put together a temporary unit. I already have the milling arbor and collets, just need the vise assembly. >> I haven't done this but you might try the following. Remove the compound from the cross slide and measure the size of the circular dovetail standing above the cross slide. Reinstall the compound and use your lathe to turn a replica of the circular dovetail which can be mounted to the vertical face of an angle plate (use two bolts to mount the circular dovetail so that it won't rotate). Find yourself an angle plate which when mounted in place of the compound slide will extend over the edge of the cross slide. Bore a hole in the horizontal face of the angle plate, making the hole a close fit over the circular dovetail on the cross slide. Drill and tap two holes in the edges of the angle plate so that you can install set screws to lock it down to the cross slide in place of the compound slide. Replicate the two pins with the angled faces which are used to lock the compound in position. At this point, install the angle plate in place of the compound and indicate it so that it is square to the lathe axis. Flycut the face so that it is known to be perpendicular to the face which is mounted on the cross slide. Install your replica circular dovetail, then install the compound over the replica dovetail. At this point the makeshift milling attachment is complete. You'll have to indicate the compound to get the motion truly perpendicular to the bed and you'll have to find a way to mount your work piece to the compound but at least you'll be able to do some milling. If this suits you as is, nothing further need be done. If you think it marginal for your purposes you can look for an original milling attachment, you can engineer an alternative, or you can look for a real milling machine. I hope the above ideas are useful. If anybody sees a flaw with the above approach, realising that the suggestions are for a makeshift attachment, please provide feed back. (I do not pretend to be all knowing!) Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 03:27:25 +0000 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Dedicated Atlas milling lathe Patrick Lee Rooney wrote: >>I recently acquired and rebuilt an interesting Atlas product. I am just wondering if Atlas manufactured this machine, or if it was simply made by a skilled machinist from a modified lathe bed. It consists of an F series bed and headstock with back gears and vertical countershaft. There are no threading gears, lead screw, saddle, nor are there any provisions to mount such. The bosses on the headstock and bed are not machined, nor are there any holes for the rack pins. A long arbor(with heavy flywheel) is inserted into the spindle and secured with a draw bar. The other end of the arbor is supported by an adjustable tailstock bar that has needle bearing in the end. Along the ways, runs a production milling bed which is advanced by a long rack gear. The arbor accepts various milling cutters and spacers in limitless configurations, just as a horizontal milling machine. The workpiece is attached to the milling bed via the T slots or riser blocks (about 75 that stack together in various thickness, aligned with pins). I have been using it as a dedicated keyway cutter. Very quick and easy, and with the heavy flywheel, produces smooth chatter free cuts. Has anyone seen a machine like this before, or is it a one-of-a-kind oddball? Way too many profiling cutters to be used strictly for keyways, and the arbor extends the length of the bed. The fact that there are no provisions to adjust for the depth of cut except for the riser blocks, tells me this can't be a "production " machine. Any thoughts on what this was used for, and if Atlas ever offered such a machine? << This sounds like a mini-version of a horizontal bed mill. Maybe it really was made for key seat cutting and similar tasks. On production work with horizontal mills, they only make one pass on the work, so the lack of adjustment is not so strange. Jon ------- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:04:25 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: How to secure Palmgren milling attachment > I have a 12X36 and a Palmgren 250V milling attachment. The only tool > post I have is the original lantern style. I have used it on top of > the compound with a cross bar throught the tool holder. Managed to > cut a 1/4 keyway but it was not very secure. Must be a better way. I also have a 250V, and that's about it. Be sure you back the attachment up so that the ledge on the bottom is securely against the compound, that will hold it against turning around the toolpost. I had to add a strip on mine as the U-shaped base would not let the ledge seat. I use an unground toolbit as a bar across, and I have not had the Palmgren shift on the compound. As far as stability, it isn't particularly stable, as it sticks out so far. Lots of leverage, and resulting flex. You can't take heavy cuts with it, but I have done keyways with it, and setscrew flats. That seems to be its best use, as it is really a pain to do regular milling with it on account of the flexibility. The cutter likes to bounce the work as it cuts, no matter how sharp it is. Stay down to 0.005 per pass, and a slow feed. In steel, even less. Jerry ------- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:11:04 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: How to secure Palmgren milling attachment > I have a 12X36 and a Palmgren 250V milling attachment. The only tool > post I have is the original lantern style. I have used it on top of > the compound with a cross bar throught the tool holder. That is the correct way to mount and use the Palmgren, Light cuts only and take your time. There is (or was) a better milling setup for the Atlas and sold by Atlas and Sears in their day. This milling attachment takes the place of the compound and is somewhat sturdier. Still light cuts are necessary, not a full substiute for a milling machine. Also try not to hold your milling cutter in a chuck if at all possible. Cutters can work loose from a chuck and disaster follows. John Meacham California High Desert 12 inch Atlas, Minimill, rusty file ------- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 22:54:21 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: How to secure Palmgren milling attachment > Also try not to hold your milling cutter in a chuck if at all > possible. Cutters can work loose from a chuck and disaster follows. Absolutely correct. It will work fine for a while, but eventually it will bite you as the cutter digs in progressively farther until something breaks. They always "walk" out into the work. I think the reason is that every chuck is somewhat bell-mouthed after any use, and due to its design in the first place. This is combined with hardened surfaces in contact, to allow the working outwards. With ordinary non-hardened surfaces, the hardened chuck digs in slightly, which is not possible with another hardened, polished, surface. In any case, drawbar held weldon type end mill holders are readily available for MT spindles, and drawbars are extremely simple to rig up with allthread, if nothing else, although since you have a lathe, there is no reason not to do it more elegantly. Jerry ------- Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:50:59 -0000 From: "dre99039" Subject: Re: How to secure Palmgren milling attachment > That is the correct way to mount and use the Palmgren Also try not to hold your milling cutter in a chuck if at all possible. Cutters can work loose from a chuck and disaster follows.< I think I will build a plate to hold the Palmgren square with the compound. If I index it to the T slot and the machined edge of the milling attachment it should hold much better. When I mill it wants to rotate into the cutter. Not much to hold it as the front edge of the compound is round. I do have a end mill holder and drawbar that works well. Thanks for the reply, looking forward to learning many things from this group. Don in WA ------- Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 15:10:35 -0000 From: "thepistolsmith" Subject: Palmgren Mount I sumply use my Atlas boring table as a base. It sits lower and is very precise. If you didn't think to obtain a boring table while they were offered, you might still be able to buy an Atlas double cross slide for a drill press. You remove the upper portion, which is a perfect fit on the cross slide's compound base and makes a boring table. ------- Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 02:20:38 EDT From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Milling attachment, and other things In a message dated 5/17/2002, frankx~xxdsea.com writes: > Occasionally I post this updated list of things you can buy from > McMaster-Carr (and generally from MSC) that can be used to fix, > upgrade, or equip the 10" and 12" Atlas lathes. A milling attachment > is still available new. If you can locate one now, the Atlas milling attachment is more rigid than the Palmgren. The Palmgren clamps to the compound by the tool post while the original Atlas replaces the whole compound slide. John Meacham California High Desert ------- Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:04:59 -0000 From: "paul_probus" Subject: Re: Milling attachment, and other things Metal Lathe Accessories (they advertise in HSM) sells a kit that you machine and can make your own milling attachment. Judging from memory about the last time I saw it on their web site (don't remember the URL, sorry) it looked a lot more rigid than the Palmgren. Of course, you could make your own from weldaments and customize it anyway you want (ie. have a T-slot bed to mount your own vice to, etc.). Paul ------- Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:30:22 -0700 From: Frank Evan Perdicaro Subject: More on milling attachment It is easy to see how one could make a better milling attachment than the Palmgren. It is not hard to understand how the Atlas unit could be stronger. Half-way between these two is the solution I have been working on. Pull off the compound, and mount 2" thick slab of aluminum, carefully shaped to hold the Palmgren as close to the bed as possible. For optimal fit, you should grind (or file) 2 surfaces on the Palmgren for support. I am taking the shortcut of epoxy bedding. For maximum rigidity, you can drill and tap the center of the compound inner pivot for a 1/4-20 grade 8 bolt. ------- Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:10:25 -0700 From: "John Johnson" Subject: Re: Milling Attachment - My Upgrade With all the talk of milling attachments lately, I thought I would add my upgrade to the discussion. I did this to the milling attachment that I use on my 12" Craftsman lathe. Below I give an URL to a photo of my milling attachment that I modified to really clamp like a vise. It is not a Kurt, but it works very well. I got tired of using the standard loose plates while clamping things in so I made a movable jaw that is more or less permanently mounted to the milling attachment. It is bolted together so I can take it out if needed. Here is what I did. I used a 1/2" thick piece of CR steel with a 3/8" x 1" CR steel wing bolted to each end. These wings have a raised portion that slides up and down in a 1/8" grove milled into each side of the milling attachment. The wings also are "dado" jointed with the jaw. I used two 1/4"-28tpi socket head cap screws on each wing to hold them to the jaw. The two clamping screws are still used to give pressure to the jaw. While at it, I also drilled and taped a hole on each side so I could set up movable stops using 1/4" dia. rods. There were detents in the casting here, so I just drilled at those points. These are used to mill pieces larger than the range that the cross slide can move in one pass. I did all of the milling of all of the pieces as well as to the milling attachment with the milling attachment. The photo shows the jaw holding a 1/4" x 1/4" angle that I milled from a 1" x 1" square steel tube. In the photo I am drilling 1/16" rivet holes at 0.375" centers for the length which is about 7-8" long. The stop rod is in place with one stop being used and the other "at ease." The stops are made from 3/8" x 3/8" CR steel with a 1/4" hole drilled at one end and a 4-40 socket head cap screw taped in the center from the far end to hold the stop in place. I have used this for over a year now for many parts on my live steam Shay locomotive. www.locogear.com/MillAtt1.jpg John D.L. Johnson www.LocoGear.com ------- Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:14:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank Evan Perdicaro Subject: Mounting a Palmgren 250 on a 10F A few notes here and on r.c.m. inspired me to spend another hour or two working on my Palmgren 250 mount. In the past I cut, flycut and milled a block of aluminum that would be used to replace the compound. Alas a few things came up, and I had to take it off the 4-jaw. So I lost the center, and had to make an indicator stick to get it back in position. (Thesesticks are in Lautard's TMBR 2.) So I bored the 5/8 by 1.500 hole to slide the mount over the compound, then drilled and tapped the compound 5/16 course. A socket head bolt holds the block to the compound, and a stud & plate combo holds the 250 to the block. So now the 250 will rotate like the compound, and spin on its own axis, plus clamp and move. Not bad: 5 degrees of freedom. One mistake and one observation. Somehow I did not "sneak up" on the 1.500 diamater correctly, and did an overshoot by about 0.008. The fit is easy to move, but will it make a difference? It will be bolted on the top, and two times on the sides (at 90 degrees, just like the stock compound.) There is plenty of meat left in the block I am using. Should I make a steel ring and press it in, or is a slightly loose fit OK? My semi-random selection of a mounting block resulted in the rotation axis of the vise being about 0.1" below the rotation axis of the lathe. Would it be best if the 250 could be made to rotate around the central axis of the lathe? Probably, but why? With a bit more work, I could add a brace so the backside of the 250 could be clamped to the bed. This looks like a good idea. Also, it would be easy to make an arm to grasp the backside of the vise in tailstock chuck, providing 2 means of support. Is this often done? Frank Evan Perdicaro, KF6JGX Dainippon Screen Engineering of America BSP, MSCE; old GMC, Chevy&Hawk w/V 17942 Cowan Ave inhouse: frankx~xxserver, x258 Irvine CA outhouse: frankx~xxdsea.com, 949-477-4800x258 92614 DoD:1097 ------- Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 23:06:05 EST From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: why reverse Jerry writes: << One good reason for reverse rotation is milling on the lathe, particularly with arbor-mounted cutters. Since the milling attachment usually goes approximately where the compound goes (exactly for Atlas) it is usual for the part to be on the operator side of the spindle. It is also usual for the cut to be taken on the top of the part where you can actually see it. If your spindle is revolving as normal, and you take the cut by moving the part into the cutter, you will be "climb milling", that is the cutter is trying to walk over the part. --- >> Then why not feed the part to the back before starting the cut, then raise it to the cutting depth and feed it out? Not only will this avoid climb milling but the feed screw will be under tension during the cut instead of compression as in most lathe operations. Tension should be a more stable mode. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:22:55 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Re: why reverse > Then why not feed the part to the back before starting the cut, Fine, if the part is small enough and shaped to allow that. Mine are often not. The parts need to be fed in like a lathe tool due to limited travel of the crosslide, the need to do a longer cut in one pass to avoid an eternity of re-setting, and/or stopped cuts where I want to see the stop point easily. If you notice, the compound is "biased" to the operator side of the spindle. You may run out of screw going towards the back, and not be able to do the reverse setup. Of course, if you can do a single "thru" cut, not a stopped cut, you may be able to do it either way if the workpiece is suitable. I find it easier to setup for the "away" cut, and if you can reverse the cutter, how simple that is instead of all the other fussing to get a long cut. As far as the compression aspect, if it is good enough for ordinary cutting and knurling, etc, it should be plenty good for any cut you would trust a milling attachment on. Milling attachments are not known for accepting deep hogging cuts. Jerry ------- Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:20:44 -0000 From: "elperkins2003 " Subject: Re: why reverse Paul; it is probably not so much how large a piece you can mill using the lathe milling attachment. It is more a problem of the limited movment available in the Y axis (across) and the Z axis (vertical). I have been through a variety of various milling arrangements including the little Sherline mill when I started, a milling attachment for my 6" Atlas, a milling attachment for my 9" South Bend, a Benchmaster mill, and an Asian Mini Mill. What I have found to work pretty good is the asian mini mill paired along with the a 6" to 9" swing lathe. Mine is the Harbor Freight version. It is a surprisingly good little machine. I have a 6" Atlas, 9" South Bend, and South Bend Heavy 10. Just the other day, I decided to try a minor milling operation on the Heavy 10 with the South Bend milling attachment. It was impossible to get the part oriented properly to make the 45 degree cut. I finally made the cut on my old Benchmaster Horizontal mill with ease. Perk in Cincinnati -------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 02:09:46 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: mr milling question In a message dated 3/22/2003, ericm61635x~xxaol.com writes: > i have a 101 mark2 craftsman and have a question about milling. i > have the milling attachment and want to know do i mill a piece by > advancing front to back or back to front u must feed INTO the cutter....running the spindle in forward: if u feed to the rear, u must feed against the top 1/2 of cutter, if feeding to front, feed into the bottom i/2 of cutter... this is to keep the feed a/ the screw, effectively eliminating the slop in the nut/screw...start out w/ LIGHT cuts & feel ur way ....010 or so .clamp in vise w/ MINIMUM over hang ... i can take an easy .030 full d. cut w/ a 3/8 end mill in steel on my 6x18 ( & that is GOOD for the equipment)....milling w/ an attachment is a lot like a .410 shotgun ...its for an expert , not the beginner who is usually the one who receives a .410 for a gift ....machine tool operation by burghardt vol2 on ebay now is a great book 1922 also vol.one on the lathe ...still refer to mine 45 yrs later best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 07:33:12 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: mr milling question I have used a milling attachment on my 6" Atlas/Craftsman lathe. Small workpieces can be shaped with nice finishes, but It has very little movement range, so options, as to feeding, are limited. My suggestion is that you try to make all feeds in the conventional direction, that is, as the cutter turns, it pushes the workpiece away. Make sure that the slides (count the carriage as a the Z slide) that you are NOT using to feed the work is locked. Make light cuts. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:12:24 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: mr milling question When you do milling, there are two directions of taking a cut. The first is the conventional cut where the cutter is digging from the bottom where it has already cut out on that pass and is shoving metal to the uncut part of the pass. In other words, you are plowing a section out of the metal. The second way to cut is to climb cut. This is where the cutter hits the unmachined part of the cut first and then digs into the part where it has already cut. This is like drag mining where you put your drag bucket way out on the top of the slope and then drag it down to you where you can then pick the stuff up and put it in the truck. Climb cutting also has a real severe problem as the high forces involved in cutting will make the table move towards the slop of the positioning equipment and thus the cutter may break or more material may be cut than is desired. When you have equipment that is delicate or flexible, it is a lot better to do conventional milling cuts as the work gets pushed away from the cutter and thus less work is done which will keep the system from overloading and breaking. I will tell you that there is nothing like watching a cutter all of a sudden take a big bite out of a piece of metal because the table slack got taken up and then break because the bite was too large for the cutter to move the swarf out of the way. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:30:05 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: milling question bkealeyx~xxfriend.ly.net writes: >>Does the cutter feeding into the work piece while the cutter is turning from top to bottom as the piece is fed into it, as in moving the piece from the front of the machine towards the back while the machine is turning in the forward direction mean that it is climbing or is it the opposite? << this is climb milling when u r cutting on the bottom of the end mill & u DO NOT want to mill on an attach. this way ...w/ the spindle in ccw motion, u want to feed against the bottom of the cutter from the rear to the front....this may help :at the moment (and just after )the work contacts the cutter ,they shud be moving in opposite directions...in climb milling, the cutter will actually drag the material into itself. like sticking ur finger into 2 rollers & having it dragged in...u only need to do this once w/ a rack & pinion feed on a hand mill& watch the lever tear out of ur hand & the table fly about a foot or so ...think abt how i know this... best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:36:35 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: milling question Look at it this way. When the cutter is pulling the work being cut in the direction that the work is going, that is a climbing cut. The cutter "climbs" into the material that needs to be removed. When the cutter pushes the work back where it came from then that is the conventional milling. I'll note that the conventional milling is from the old days when machines were really loose and the only way that you could do a good sized cut was the "conventional" method otherwise the cutter would immediately pull the work into the cutter and thus destroy the delicate cutter in no time at all. FWIW, I don't like radial arm saws because the typical method of cutting with those is the climb cutting and when the blade takes a good dig into the wood, you're suddenly watching a saw coming at you at a fairly high speed. The table saw is normally run in the converntional cutting direction. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:35:45 +0100 From: "Ernest Lear" Subject: Re: Fwd: Backplate [NOW MILLING ATTACHMENT] Brian: To get the Compound off you just undo the two set screws, the same ones that you loosen off, to set it at another angle, with the square head on each that the spanner or key that you use fits on. Then you just lift it off. You are left with the round seating ring that the compound sits on with its raised post in the centre on the top of the cross side. Now if I was designing a milling attachment I would make a pattern and get a cast iron or aluminium casting to take a vertical slide to clamp my job to and fit the milling cutter in a collets chuck in the headstock spindle. To mill I would have the x-y and z movement of the object being worked on. This L shape casting base would be machined to fit as the compound did and this will also allow angles to be set as it able to rotate and lock in any position just like the compound. One thing you got to bear in mind, is the fact that the Atlas parts on the carriage are not as sturdy as those on a milling machine and so you got to watch the loads and the leverages etc. In another word just take care and don't break it. Ernest ------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:00:40 EDT From: artrich999x~xxaol.com Subject: Milling on the Atlas 6" question One a couple of occasions I have needed to mill objects with the milling attachment of the Atlas 6". I have been unable to figure out a convenient way to accurately control the movement along the bed. The other axes are easy to control accurately but moving the carriage along the bed with the handwheel is at best a guess. Does anyone have any suggestions? I had considered putting a handwheel and calibrated collar on the outboard end of the lead screw but that is quite a project for the occasional use. Thank you for your time. Regards, Art Richardson Clinton, MS ------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:21:31 -0400 From: Damon Gentile Subject: Re: Milling on the Atlas 6" question Some milling attachments mount on the compound, swing the compound out to 90deg and now that's your depth control. Or something like a dial indicator mounted to the ways? Damon ------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:08:37 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Milling on the Atlas 6" question Moving the carriage a precise amount requires a leadscrew arrangement. I have made such for my 6" A/C lathe. A small block of aluminum with two holes drilled near each end. Make one hole a diameter to clear the bolt that holds the threading dial on the carriage. On the other end, a hole that will just clear a 1/4x20 screw thread. Remove the threading dial and replace with the block, using the bolt that held the threading dial. Make a block of aluminum that can be clamped to the bed, using another block of aluminum below the bed, and a bolt between the bed ways to hold it. Mount this parallel to the block on the carriage. But... Before you mount it drill and thread a hole 1/4x20 that will align with the empty hole in the block that replaced the threading dial. Buy a length of 1/4x20 all thread from the hardware store, along with a bag of 1/4x20 hex nuts. Also a wing nut of the same thread. Cut a 4 or 6 inch length of all thread. Thread two nuts on it and push it through the block on the carriage. Extend the end (facing the headstock) enough to thread two more nuts on it. Lock these two outer nuts together. Next, move the nut closest to the block until there is little clearance between it and the block. Use the remaining nut to lock the nut into position. Now turn the all thread and screw it through the block that is mounted on the bed. On the very end of the all thread (away from the headstock), mount another nut and the wing nut, using the nut to jamb the wing nut on the all thread. When you turn the wing nut, it will move the carriage in the Z axis. (closer or farther from the mill bit) You can make a close approximations such as, a whole turn will move the carriage 50 thousands, half-turn 25 thousands, 1/4 turn 12.5, and so on. For closer control, use a dial indicator. Make sure you lock the carriage down before you take a milling cut. The aluminum blocks can be cut with a hacksaw, so this should not be a very difficult project. Leo (pearland, tx) BTW: washers between the nuts and the carriage block will help make the turning easier. Make all movement calculations, after the slack has been taken up. ------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:08:59 -0400 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: Milling on the Atlas 6" question Yep. Put a handwheel on the RH end of the leadscrew. Mert ------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:35:40 -0400 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: Milling tool holders > I have recently gotten a milling vice for my 12 X36 Atlas lathe and > want to experiment with some milling. I have a collet draw bar set up. Collets should work OK. Remember that a lathe is not a miller, & take things easy. Mert ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a short discussion on milling tool holders for use in the lathe in the text file "Atlas 618 Gems" in April 2003; also see the text file "Cutters Collets and Arbors". ------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:32:30 EDT From: JMartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Milling tool holders In a message dated 4/22/03, kim.woodx~xxgtri.gatech.edu writes: << I have recently gotten a milling vice for my 12 X36 Atlas lathe and want to experiment with some milling. I have a collet draw bar set up. Is this acceptable for holding milling cutters or do I need to get one of the milling tool holders? If the collet will work is there any drawbacks/problems with using this as a milling tool holder. Any advice for beginning milling would be appreciated. Thanks Kim >> Only drawback to a collet is that the mill can pull out. The helix angle of the flutes puts tension on the mill, which can drive it deeper into your work. That's the reason you often see grooves of increasing depth in a Bridgeport table. Tighten it down and keep an eye on things and you may be OK. An endmill holder, with a setscrew that locks into the flat on a Weldon shank, is better way. Avoid climb cutting until you have a bit more experience, and then use it only for cleaning up the last few thousandths unless you really have to. Remove large amounts of metal by using the end of the mill, as in drilling with a drill bit. It's more efficient that way, and when it dulls you may be able to touch up the ends on a grinder. Which brings up my last tip. Use sharp cutters. John Martin ------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:39:33 EDT From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Milling tool holders you MUST not climb mill w/ a lathe milling attachment...travel of part must be in direction such that cutter teeth are driving part back where it came from rather than drawing it IN ...es machts nichts with a full diameter cut....if confused, read,ask till understood!!! ....MINIMUM overhang, light cuts till u feel ur way , maybe .030 max w/ 3/8 cutter ( my 6x18 handles that in steel w/ no problems), my 12in attach will do more but havent used it in 25 yrs & cant remember ...ran a test w/ 6 X18 in a few years ago when someone poormouthed the 6x18 ,& said could not take more than . 010 cut !!!yeah!!!....REALLY tired of crftsmn/atlas poor mouthing ! they sold for 1/2 to 2/3 of southbend /logan & had more features /access. at purchasable prices ...i havent yet found out what my wards/logan 10 x24 does better than my crftsmn12x36 , & a lot that is not as handy! oh yeah , the CAST IRON 72 tooth gear had a tooth knocked out, ...have had crftsmn since 1957 ,.1970,.....all "pot metal"gears are excellent ...NO TEETH OUT! just sold the spindle pulley off a pre war crftsmn 12x24(circa 1938) i am parting out & it (zamak ) was xcellent ...wonder under what storage circumstances , others have had zamak deteriorate? best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:17:10 -0700 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Re:Milling tool holders Odd thing to say as every vertical mill that I've used has had collets for the holding of the tool! I've used a fair number of Bridgeports, clones of them, bench mills, pantograph mills and even a neat Deckel mill over time. Each of them had, in some way, a collet - the pantograph mills had a collet like the Dremel tools do - to hold the tool bit. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:26:05 -0500 From: "Rodent" Subject: Re: Re:Milling tool holders Beats me. The cheapy Chinese mini-mill I have has a 3/8 and 1/2 collet for end mills and it works just fine. We have used and abused it and never had a problem. And it will generate enough force to bust a 1/2 inch end mill with no problem. The only issues about the tool moving are related to the poor return spring on the head -- once you get some wear on the machine you have to be sure to lock the head after a move, even when using the fine downfeed -- otherwise the endmill pulls the head into the work. ------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 01:30:06 -0500 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Re:Milling tool holders Yes, and I used collets, too, until I did a CNC retrofit on my Bridgeport mill. Then, i got a bunch of end mill holders. the advantage is you can put an end mill holder into the spindle and get a repeatable position every time you put the tool in. That can be real handy if the machine can index that position from a home reference point. The same tool can be brought to the same position even months later, as long as it hasn't been removed from the holder. Jon ------- NOTE TO FILE: This topic started as a question about milling on a lathe and quickly became generic and so could also belong in the text file "Cutters Collets and Arbors" so that mill people could find it also, but there is no website room to post messages to multiple files here. Alternatively, mill people should regularly read this file too. [Sigh.] ------- Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 20:22:37 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: My first milling project on 618 I just finished making a carriage stop and dial indicator holder for my 6" lathe, using the lathe's milling attachment. The pictures are posted in the Photos section. It consists of an aluminum carriage stop that can be positioned on the front way. The carriage stop can carry a 1/4" rod used to hold a dial indicator. The trickiest part was getting the dial indicator in a good position while keeping it from bumping into parts of the lathe (leadscrew, rack, way). What I learned was that I need a milling machine. While the milling attachment allowed me to make this part, I don't think I'd like to do a lot of milling that way. Bruno ------- Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:45:22 -0500 (CDT) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: My first milling project on 618 Yes, Bruno, you can do some nice milling with the attachment, but only if the project is small. Look at the MiniMill as a nice companion to the Atlas 6". I got one and now projects that call for milling are a breeze. A "mini mill" is a small vertical milling machine. I think it is much larger than a Sherline. A feature that I like is that the mill head (holding the spindle) slides on dovetailed column, so you can keep alignment over the full range of Z-axis movement. Go to grizzly.com and look up a model G8689. These mills are sold by various sources, Grizzly, Harbor Freight, and Homier, among others. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:00:27 -0000 From: "clifffivaz" Subject: Quick and easy end mill holders for lathe It is generally considered a bad idea to chuck an end mill directly in a three jaw chuck since both the chuck jaws and the end mill shank are hardened so the end mill often slips. A quick way to make an end mill holder for use with your three jaw chuck (and not have to make a morse taper) is to to put a length of round (or hex) stock that has a dia. about a half inch greater than the end mill shank in the chuck. Next center drill and then drill a hole slightly under the dia. of the mill shank, then bore out the hole to fit the end mill shank. Make some sort of index mark on the chuck and the just bored stock so each time you put it in the chuck it is located in the same position this will help to keep the holder concentric. Next layout for cross drilling a hole that you can tap for a set screw that will contact the "flat" on the end mill shank, drill and tap the hole. To use; insert the end mill, tighten the set screw, locate the index marks you made on the holder and chuck, put the holder in the chuck, tighten the jaws and you are ready to mill. Some people claim that the weight of the chuck helps to reduce chatter with this set-up compared to the morse taper style end mill holders. If you have been here and done this let the group know what your experience has been with this type of end mill holder. Cliff ------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 04:28:20 -0800 (PST) From: john r johnson Subject: Re: Milling on a 10" Atlas Lathe wrote: > I need help on a 10"Atlas Lathe, I got a milling attachment and some > milling tools (3/8 shank) that came with my lathe. I bought a 3AT > draw - bar collet attachment. Could someone tell me what other tools > I need on the draw bar to use my Lathe as a milling machine for light > work. Do I need to remove my 3 jaw chuck and put something else > there? And if so, I need to know how to remove the chuck anyway? I cannot speak for your chuck removal but I have a 10" Atlas lathe spindle I mounted on a lathe bed and made a milling machine out of. The spindle nose has a #3mt inside diameter and a 1 1/2"-8 thread on the outside diameter. My chuck and face plates will fit it from my 9" Logan (Montgomery Wards) lathe. So, the similarities allow me to speak of either for the same procedure. I bought a set of spanner wrenches from Harbor Freight just for the chuck and face plate removal. You need to lock the spindle so it will not rotate. Be very careful not to jam or hook anything in the gear teeth for they are known to break off. I put the largest spanner onto the chuck hooking it over the end of a protruding jaw. My lathe has a flat belt I can get to so I grasp the belt so I am squeezing the belt onto the spindle pulley. By rapping the end of the spanner (counterclockwise) with a wooden mallet the chuck breaks loose. Same for a face plate. It is adviseable to cut a piece of 2" x 4" and set it under the chuck across the ways. Until you do this a few times you will be surprised by the weight of the chuck in your left hand as it comes off the spindle. I lost a fingernail to that one. I use collets that are a #3mt with a 3/8-16nc allthread rod as my drawbar. The set is interchangeable with my mill so I started making parts for the mill by milling on the lathe. Now I can use either machine for milling. I also plan to make a tool holder for my faceplate where I can mount a lathe bit and flycut using the faceplate on the mill spindle. Taking out a few bolts and I'm back to using the faceplate on the lathe. HTH. Regards, John R Johnson ------- Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:58:23 -0000 From: "loud3803" Subject: Re: Milling on a 10" Atlas Lathe I own a 12" atlas which is virtually the same thing as the 10", just a different swing. As far as I know you don't have to do anything special with the spindle, just remove the chuck. To remove the chuck you should engage the back gears without pulling the pin on your bull gear, this will solidly lock the spindle without risking your gear teeth. Open the jaws of your chuck wide enough to wedge a wooden hammer handle across the face of the chuck and try to carefully knock it loose, it has a right hand thread so it should loosen towards you. Also, as stated by an earlier post, cover the ways with a 2X4 or piece of plywood. I hope this helps. Louis ------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:57:33 -0000 From: "Ernest Lear" Subject: Re: Milling on a 10" Atlas Lathe Funny enough I just finish making a collet chuck and 4 collets to hold my milling cutters. Very pleased with them and they work perfectly. Ernest ------- Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:56:24 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Digest Number 1718 Yes, remove the chuck so you can use the draw bar and collets to hold the milling cutters. On the Atlas/Craftsman the chucks just screw onto the spindle. To remove the chuck put the lathe in direct drive and back gear at the same time (with no power of course) which should lock the spindle. Then unscrew the chuck, normal right hand thread. Often you will find the chuck wants to refuse to unscrew if it has been on there for a long time. Then we are in the penetrating oil stage. Not too forceful but put a wood chunk across the chuck jaws and try to persuade it to come off with leverage. Gentle taps etc but not enough to strip any gears. Some people put a long 2X4 across the jaws and hang a weight on the end and apply oil every day. No pipe wrenches please! If it was screwed on, it will eventually un-screw unless it is badly rusted. John in the high desert of California ------- Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 23:48:22 +0100 From: "Nigel Spurr" Subject: Milling in lathe and splined fits. A good reason to fit a QC toolpost is that you can use toolholders to hold work whilst milling/slitting. The "Z" direction positioning is obtained by what is normally the tool height adjustment. Mind now wanders onto making a more appropriate milling fixture using QC toolpost as a foundation. Although I have a vertical slide for proper milling I find that it is quicker to hold work in the toolholder for simple milling jobs. No messing about changing over or sorting out clamps. Next subject is splines. I needed a good fit between a shaft and lever. I did not want to braze/weld. My 10F atlas is just not up to forming decent straight knurls in steel. Using the bullwheel index and a standard tool turned 90 degrees in the toolpost, I can cut a very good 60 tooth spline. On a .320 dia. shaft, I find that this transmits more than enough torque even though the lever is just .080 thick. Beats cutting keyways. The shaft outside diameter was .320, the hole in the lever .312. The shaft is a little harder than the lever and I found that the splines cut into the lever well. Torque was in excess of 40 foot pounds. Nigel ------- Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:43:58 -0500 From: Charle B Vincent Subject: Re: Question about milling attachment [earlier] Charle B Vincent wrote: >I doubt that it is worn out, if it is, it would be the first one I have >seen in such a state. They usually spend all of their time on a shelf >or in a drawer. Unless it has recirculating ball screws, all machine >tools will have some play in the screws. It is additive. Some will >be in the screw and nut, but probably not a lot. Some will be in how >the handle is attached to the screw and some will be in how the shaft is >anchored to the slide. Check all of the points, understand the >mechanism and see where it can be adjusted to take out some play, and >when you are done with all of that take a chill pill. You will have to >learn how to use the tool. For example, cuts made in the vertical plane >are done by advancing the work up, so gravity and the forces of the tool >itself will be both working in the same direction and the play won't be >an issue. Play in the slides is a bigger issue, but there are gibs to >take that up. In any event, the Atlas tool is limited in what it will >do. I use mine primarily for mica undercutting. Charles By the way, with any milling in this sort of rig you want to avoid climb milling. Assuming that the spindle on the lathe has the cutting tool and is turning in the normal direction, you want to advance the work into the cutter by moving the crosslide to you. This way the cutter is pushing the piece against the lead screw. Doing it the other way will result in the cutter grabbing the work and pulling it into itself and then breaking either the cutter, the lathe, the work or all of the above. In general, you avoid climb milling with all machines, but there are rare instances on a rigid machine where it is recommended. Another common error on these small attachments is trying to cut a slot in one pass. This results in the slide vibrating like crazy. You are best off chain drilling the slot and then inserting a cutter with a diameter half the width of the slot and finishing top and bottom in several passes. Charles ------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 01:56:34 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Question about milling attachment I have the milling attachment for the 6" lathe -- almost the same thing. There's a handle on the middle gib adjustment, so you can lock it down. Probably same on yours. If I'm moving the lathe cross slide for the cut (horizontal), I lock down the milling attachment slide. If I'm cranking the milling attachment for the cut (vertical), I lock down the cross slide. Either way, the backlash should be taken up before starting the cut. As far as I can figure, the amount of backlash is not a big issue -- if you have .002" or .020" or .050", you still need to take it up before the cut and with the gibs tight enough it should be OK. That said, it's still better to get rid of as much play as possible. (Of course, I may be wrong and/or others may have a different opinion.) -Bruno -------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:07:07 -0700 From: "Steve B." Subject: Re: Question about milling attachment I had about that much 'backlash' in one I bought off e-bay too. My slop was not caused by the screw threads, but the thing that held the screw in place I made a spacer that took up my slop and have it pretty tight except for the actual screw backlash which is pretty nominal in my opinion,. Steve B ------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:33:32 -0700 From: "Steve B." Subject: Re: Re: Question about milling attachment http://home.comcast.net/~belagus/mill.jpg I posted a pic of an attachment. I think the guy needs to determine if indeed he has "backlash" or if the the screw ass'y has up and downwards "slop". "slop" in the screw ass'y can be removed in my experience. Backlash can be as well, but you'll need to build a new nut My attachment had a bunch of slop in the screw assembly. The entire screw would move up or down about .020" before the slide would move. You could call that "backlash", but it isn't, it's "slop". Backlash is the amount of "slop" within the pitchline of the mating screw threads. I created a simple spacer to remove my 'slop', and have lived with the backlash leftover. SB ------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:37:49 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Question about milling attachment "joegourlay" wrote: > Given that play is unavoidable, how do you do accurate work? Let's > say you know you need to advance the (whatever) .010", but you can't > trust any of your dials because they have some hazily defined amount > of slop, how do you get there? Assuming your dial is locked down on the shaft (with the setscrew), you back off the (whatever) and then come forward until all the backlash is taken up; the dial's turning but the (whatever) isn't. At that point, you should be very accurate, although if you have wear in part of the screw, that can cause very slight error in the dial reading. I mounted a dial indicator to the carriage/cross slide so I have accurate measurements of cross slide position and movement. Of course, I still need to take up the backlash. > what sort of accuracy can I expect to get out of a machine like this A thou or under. ------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:00:28 -0400 (EDT) From: x xx Subject: Re: Re: Question about milling attachment A thou or under doesn't come as OE with the machine. It comes with lotsa practice on the particular machine :-) Sam ------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:11:54 EDT From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Question about milling attachment i work to a few tenths regularly on crftsmn 12x36 with better than .070 lash in x feed..shud have made a new nut & taken a skim cut on thrd years ago , but now , i am temped to keep going til failure ( .100 .) if i live long enuf ..... form the habit early of taking up the lash when changing direction ..u will need it on all but high dollar modern & CNC tools ... .....the accuracy of work is dependent upon the operator's skills .... start w/ a good 1920 text ....! best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:46:22 -0700 From: "Steve B." Subject: Re: Climb cutting?" > By climb cutting to do you mean trying to cut with the back edge of > the blade as opposed to cutting with the point of the cutting edge? > With respect to cutting a slot, the only way I have to put this in > context is a router. I understand not taking full depth cuts from > this perspective. What we do, however, with a router is take > progressive shallow cuts. > So...if we think there is something about the material that will > cause chatter or wander and need a 1/2" deep slot, we might take four > 1/16" passes. The reason woodworkers do this is because it's a lot > faster doing that way than set up for a chain drill, chain drilling, > then setting up a routing operation. > Does this progress deepening not work in a machining operations? You could "rough" the slot in using an undersize endmill, then finish with a full size endmill. The 'roughing' in of the slot could be very well be done with multiple cuts. You would leave maybe .010 on each wall, and .010 on the bottom. Then your finish cut with the onsize endmill takes a minimum amount of material and has the best opprtunity to produce a decent finish. Or using an undersize endmill, you could finish the key, cutting each side independently and taking a little off the bottom. I have not run an endmill larger than 3/8" in my machine <618>, so I would be finishing the 1/2 keyway with the 3/8 endmill. Making multiple cuts with an 'onsize' endmill rarely will yield the surface finish you desire on a keyway and more than likely will cause you to have an oversize keyway. SB ------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:18:07 -0500 From: Charle B Vincent Subject: Re: Climb cutting?" Metal cutting tools do not slice, they operate on a wedge principle. In fact, the reason the tools don't get hotter than they do is because the mechanism that actually does the wedging is a bit of the material being cut being pushed ahead of the edge of the tool itself. So this means all cutting edges will tend to push against the work in the direction of the "wedge" . In normal milling, the work is being advanced in the opposite direction of the wedging force, so the cutting tool itself will tend to push the slide and nut hard against the screw as the screw is turned. This makes any play irrelevant once it has been taken up. (By the way, even with a lathe, when you back the tool out of a cut in a multipass arrangement like threading, you need to back out far enough to allow the play in the crossslide screw to be taken up well before contact with the work.) In climb milling, the work is advanced in the same direction of the wedging force, so that the moment the cutting edge contacts the work, it pulls the slide and nut away from the screw, causing the cutting tool to take a bigger bite than expected. You have to have a really tight machine for climb cutting, or spring loaded nut or even ballscrews as mentioned before. Regarding using the dials, you only use them in one direction. This is why you should lay out your work in advance with layout blue and punch marks. In the old days they used jig borers that would allow you to locate holes using the dials, but they were never used with side forces. Regarding endmills, if you need a half inch slot and you use a half inch end mill, you will not likely get a half in slot. And the surface will be rough. If you use a 3/8 mill you can gradually widen it to get it right on the mark. The big problem with end mills is that it has two or more cutting edges (or wedges). In a two cutter end mill, one (w)edge will be pushing against the screw and the other with it. This will cause the work to vibrate on older machines or light machines. That is why I suggested chain drilling first, a drill has a tapered cutting edge that helps to balance things. Someone else suggested using the end mill full width, but taking gradual cuts. This is also acceptable, but still results in an under/oversize hole for me. Also if you resharpen your endmills or if you have slots that don't fall on 16ths, you're going to have to learn to do it the other way anyhow. Charles ------- Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:21:02 -0600 From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Trade for Milling Attachment In defense of the maligned milling attachment...Way back when (ca. 1955) milling machines were expensive items for a hobby machinist. (average wage, $1,25 per hour) Seems that the Atlas (hobby size) sold for around $400. And this was a horizontal miller. (limited versatility) The milling attachment for the 6" A/C sold for $25. It could do limited milling. And being designed especially for the lathe, could do very fine and accurate work. But today, with small vertical mills selling for under $500, the milling attachment has lost favor. My opinion.... and I'm not gonna sell mine! 8-) Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:56:38 -0600 From: xlch58x~xxswbell.net Subject: Re: Re: Trade for Milling Attachment As I have mentioned before, they also serve as an excellent base for a toolpost grinder, or mica undercutter. I have mounted a cable drill in the milling attachment and used it to drill bolt holes for mounting flanges indexed with the holes in the bull gear-- (you would need an index with your small mill, and quite a bit of verticle height to do this). They are a useful tool to have in your kit if they are not too expensive. The other thing is, that making one for your atlas is pretty cheap and simple to boot. Charles ------- Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:21:21 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Milling attachement I have an original milling attachment for my 12 inch Craftsman and a mini-mill from Harbor Fright. I use the attachement for all kinds of odd setups as when your tooling is limited you learn to make do. I have used mine to hold my Dremel onto the cross slide (Tool post grinder). Hold cylinders for boring with a between centers boring bar. Lay out hole patterns with a spotting drill in a head stock chuck as then you have dials and cranks in two planes. All in all a useful accessory for an HSM. Another accessory that I have found useful, but given bad talk on the list is the Jacobs chuck that fits the head stock threads. Mine was kind of hard to open and close, but sent it off with my son to the shop where he works as their tool maker overhauls Jacobs chucks. He sent it back and said all it needed was cleaning so now it works great. The only problem I have with it is the chuck dosn't close down far enough for small items so for some setups I have to make a split collet to hold a small drill or rod. (Make a collet to hold something that is needed to hold something that will be used to make a jig that will finally be used to make a part you wanted. Next I will be digging in the back yard to find iron ore to make my own castings LOL.) When you are making one or two parts for some project, you use what you have and maybe methods that would be un-acceptable for a production shop. Read some of the really old Model Engineer magizines from England and see how some of the old timers did things. See some of the work turned out with lathes that were driven with foot pedals etc. The lathe is not called the mother of machine tools for no reason. ------- Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 16:22:48 -0000 From: "Phillip Chaplin" Subject: Re: Milling Attachment [NOTE TO FILE: Another conversation, about the merits and disadvantages of Atlas and Palmgren milling attachments, fairly duplicated prior information in messages above. Phillip has provided another path for making your own.] Carl, if you want to build one, here are several ideas, both are designed for the 6" Atlas lathe. A milling attachment for a small lathe by Jim Reynolds in PROJECTS IN METAL, August 1997, pg 4. Build a lathe milling attachment by Marsh Collins in MACHINIST'S WORKSHOP, June/July 2001, pg 8. The article by Marsh Collins is a scaled down version of the Palmgrens to fit an Atlas/Craftsman 6" lathe. Hope this helps. Phil ------- Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 12:43:07 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: Re: Milling Attachment There is also a rather neat one made from a C.I street elbow. The big end is machined to fit on the cross slide, & the little end is machined to fit the topslide. all you need is a vise. One part is all you need to make, & you can make it right on your lathe, If you have the chucks. Mert [AND MERT IN A LATER MESSAGE:] I don't have a picture of the street elbow version, but it could be done with a block of aluminum and the setup would be a lot easier. I made one for my 6" Atlas by turning a block of aluminum to fit the circular dovetail on the crossslide and bolting a nice dovetail slide I bought off e-bay to. You could easily just machine the other dovetail on an adjacent face so you could mount your compound slide to that face and mount a small vise to the T slot in the compound. The other option would be to use drill rod and reamed holes for the slide. Perhaps a slot and pinch bolt in one hole to allow clamping when you are in position to mill. Use 4 rods with matching top and bottom pieces for rigidity. [MERT AGAIN:] Plans & Instructions were from Wood-Met Services, Inc. Plan set #226, I got these a few years back when I was enthusiastic about milling on the lathe. This idea has lost some of its appeal, and I never did make this thing for the 618. The way this lathe has its top slide attached lends itself naturally to the street elbow idea. You machine the female end to fit the cross slide, & the male end to fit the topslide. They did say to use a double strength elbow. I did make one using a 1-1/4" Tee, for the 7x10, which was less elegant, but a lot easier to set up to machine. I still have that one & can send you a pic if you want. There are no plans, I just made it from scratch as I went along. ------- Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:35:05 -0800 From: Frank Perdicaro Subject: A note on the Palmgren on the Atlas A while back I picked up a Palmgren 250 milling attachment for my 10F. As others noted, the "stock" setup is awful, with huge overhang. The solution is pretty easy. Make up a block of aluminum to drop on in place of the compound. The block holds the vise with minimal overhang. There are one or two good optimizations. First, drill and tap the center of the rotary dovetail. I think I used 3/8" fine. This permits a very secure clamping without getting obsessive about creating a perfect rotary dovetail and required beveled hardened steel pins behind set screws. Second, drill and tap the block for a pair of studs that emulate the position of the tool post, but are as widely spaced as possible. In practice this means you need assemble the block and vise, then transfer punch for your two holes, as the casting on that part of the Palmgren is not machined smooth. To use the resulting tooling: 1) remove compound 2) drop on block, align, tighten with center bolt 3) drop on Palmgren 4) tighten two studs. One optimization was obvious to me after I was done. If you make a block, try to get this in your design... Put the axis of rotation in the center of the "bottom" of the vise so you have an easy reference point. If you do this then the degree readout on the compound base will immediatley usable. Mine is arbitrarily located. This is no problem for straight work, but for angled work there is no easy way to locate anything before cutting. ------- Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:59:27 -0000 From: "lockenut_ct" Subject: Re: half-nut lever [atlas_craftsman group] Jim, I think I remember you saying you had the milling attachment too. Have you used it? If so, what were the results? I'd love to get myself a stand-alone miller, but have a minimal amount of spare time on my hands and wouldn't be able to use it regularly and justify the expense. I was thinking a milling attachment for my 10F would be a reasonable alternative if I stumbled on one for a reasonable price. ------- Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:40:10 -0000 From: "zzz_zinger" Subject: Re: half-nut lever Well, it was indeed a long time ago. During my record search, I found where I had purchased my Clausing 8520 vertical mill in 1981 so I did not use the attachment after that period. But, for the time that I did use it, I built a Stuart 10V engine and used a few setups on a few parts. Mostly I used the mill attachment to make other shop equipment but soon realized that the only way to go was with an actual mill. The main draw back, if I recall correctly, is knowing the difference between conventional milling and climb milling. Each has its own set of problems when you feed the cutter into the work. Essentially you are now dealing with the feedscrews in all 3 axis and sometimes it is difficult to keep backlash and slack out of the equation. The cutter may grab and ... well we all know where that scene will lead to. I believe I finally got the hang of it - no one here to ask - and eventually I was able to make the necessary cuts on the engine. After I got my vertical mill, well I never went back. In a pinch on a 6" lathe with very light cuts and everything locked down, you should be able to do what you want; however, the mill attachment is very limited to the size of the work piece, range of cutting, and of course the amount of metal you are removing. My recommendation today is to look at the Taig or Sherline mills. What you end up putting into an attachment goes along way toward a small mill designed to perform the tasks you are seeking and do itmuch better and safer. I hope this helps and perhaps there are some others that may care to share their stories on this subject. Jim ------- Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 05:52:23 -0600 From: "Leo Reed" Subject: RE: Vertical Slides [atlas_craftsman] From: Same > Any users in here who have done some limited milling using a vertical > lathe slide attachment. > They look lightweight compared to a milling machine but they also don't > look bad to be lightly used till i can afford a real honest milling > machine. Anyone in the group made/used them? Yes, I've used mine. Lots of manufacturers made them, including Atlas Press Company. I have one made for the 6" version of their lathe. It's use is limited to small jobs, which it can mill quite well. I have a small vertical mill which I use now, instead of the milling attachment. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:18:53 -0000 From: "jdmichael2001" Subject: Re: Vertical Slides I've also used the Atlas milling attachment. Yes, it can't compete with a mill, but it will let you do a lot of things if you're patient. Metal Lathe Accessories also sells a kit for one. You can see theirs at http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/ Jan ------- Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:51:55 -0000 From: "n5kzw" Subject: Re: Vertical Slides They are also made by Atlas/Clausing. I used one on my 6" Atlas to mill a replacement upper blade guide assembly for my 1940's Craftsman band saw. Then I went out and bought a Grizzly knee mill. A lathe really does not make a good milling machine. Regardless, any task is usually accomplished quicker and more accurately on a machine that is specifically designed for that task. Unless you have fitted your lead screw with a micrometer dial, you will need to rig up some sort of instrumentation to get an accurate depth of cut (z axis?) on a lathe. Regards, Ed ------- Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:39:59 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Re: Vertical Slides A lathe with a milling att. is just a small vertical mill lying on its side. Problems include: -Spindle usually won't go fast enough to really use the small cutters (1/8", etc) that it is suited to. -Way too flexible work support with far too much overhang. -Very limited feeds, what would be vertical feed on a vertical mill is uncalibrated on a lathe. -Very limited work holding capability on most adaptors. -The function of a swivel vise is usually either lacking, or quite limited in adjustment range and method. Now, then, it beats no mill. That is sure. I have used one up to its capability, and it worked, but was scary as heck. Now, if your machine has a table to which is bolted either the compound, OR the work, OR a vertical slide, like some imports and some British machines, it may be much nicer than I have suggested. If you have to have the compound and hold the slide with that it isn't as good. The small round slide bases on some other machines like Atlas or S-B are OK, but usually are severely limited in workholding. I have a compound-only machine, to which I mounted a palmgren adaptor. It worked OK for very light cuts, or slow, careful, and tedious key- slotting. Much more than that and there was real potential for trouble. I'd not count on an adaptor for much, unless you use the MLA setup. That actually should work. It's heavy, and solid, and has good work-mounting capability. You will probably need a new MLA cross-slide to use it. Most milling in the lathe should be left to British modelmakers, who apparently are satisfied with taking one or two cuts in a full evening's work :-) JT ------- Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:42:40 -0000 From: "rburkheimer" Subject: Re: Milling on the Lathe [atlas_craftsman] Original Message From: "Wayde C. Gutman" Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:14 AM >>I would like to here from the members who have had done milling on >> the lathe. In particular, those who have a 12" by 36" model and the >> Palmgren milling vise. Dad's shop really doesn't have the room to add >> a standard vertical mill, and he doesn't think he will do heavy >> milling, just every so often, and with aluminum workpieces. In atlas_craftsman, n8as1... wrote: > atlas mill attach mounts on x slide & eliminates one more area of > wobble ..to be preferrd I agree. The Atlas Milling Attachment mounts in place of the compound, so is more rigid than the Palmgren which mounts ONM the compound and just replaces the toolpost. However, the Palmgren has a much better vice. I think if it were mine, I'd try to use the Palmgren and adapt the mounting to mimic the Atlas. ------- Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:04:13 -0500 From: "John D.L. Johnson" Subject: Re: Milling on the Lathe Wayde, I have done a lot of milling of mild steel on my A/C 12" lathe (M/N 101.28990, S/N 108009, purchased new in 1976). You must take small cuts of about 0.010" per pass. You must be careful to plan your cuts so that you avoid "climb cutting." The practical size of the cuts should fall within the range of the milling attachment and lathe. You can travel vertically 3.250" and horizontally 6.500". However the standard milling vise for the milling attachment is only 2.350" tall and 2.500" wide. Here you have the most strength. I have made an adapter to fit on the round stud on the milling attachment to allow me to mount a face plate which I have used to setup work that would not fit into the vise. I have also mounted a 4" rotary table on this with an extra support sitting on the ways for stability. You must not use the chuck to hold milling cutters. Please use MT3 end mill holders with a set screw and a draw bar to hold them or you will spin them inside the spindle. I typically use up to .500" 4-flute end mills. I normally try to cut a chip of about 0.010" - 0.020" by 0.010" - 0.020" per pass. I try to avoid cutting using the side of the endmill to make a surface. If you go to my web site listed below you can download Technical Bulletin - 06 and you will see several photos of my milling setup. John D.L. Johnson 3879 Woods Walk Blvd. Lake Worth, FL 33467-2359 www.LocoGear.com ------- From: "Al" aludtkex~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat May 13, 2006 9:44am(PDT) Subject: Re: Milling attachment [atlas618lathe] Bruno wrote: >> OUCH! 3-jaw chucks aren't designed for milling. Not good on the chuck, >> or quality of the operation. Bruno Lou Balleweg wrote: > I wasn't aware of this problem. How does it harm the chuck? > What happens to the quality of operation? Lou Lou: I'm not Bruno, so excuse me for butting in, but I can contribute to the answer. Three jaw chucks almost always have a significant runout problem if one was to use them for milling. This would mean that just one flute of the end mill would be doing the bulk of or all of the cutting. Since, in most cases, only one flute (always the same one) would be in contact with the work piece at any moment, vibration becomes a problem. The vibrations can cause the work piece to shift in the vise or the end mill to loosen in the chuck. Furthermore, milling collets have a lot more surface in contact with the cutting tool shank, so they hold them much more securely. If one is cutting a slot that has to be precisely the width of the end mill diameter one would have a problem there also. So we end up spending a lot of money on sets of collets for various sized end mills. If one is in a bind and feeling lucky I suppose one might give a drill chuck a try but like someone said before it would be risky to tools, work and person. But one would have to feed the work extremely slowly. Much smarter to be safe and put the tool in a holder that is designed for it. Al ------- From: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat May 13, 2006 11:25am(PDT) Subject: Re: Milling attachment Just 'cuz you're not me doesn't mean you need to be excused. This is very nice explanation of another point in the discussion... runout. Even the 618 end mill holder with bushings can have some runout problems. Thanks, Al. By the way, this whole discussion applies to using a drill press with Jacobs chuck as a mill. It's not advised. Bruno ------- NOTE TO FILE: The danger of using a drill press for milling has been discussed many times, and using a 3-jaw chuck on a drill press to hold a milling bit is an accident waiting to happen. But using a lathe chuck to hold a hardened milling bit is also dangerous and not advised. Milling on the lathe is far safer with a proper collet holding the milling bit, or alternatively a Weldon milling adapter that secures the cutter shaft with a set-screw; in both cases a threaded drawbar is required to keep the collet or Weldon holder firmly in the lathe headstock. ------- Re: Need some insight please Posted by: "John D.L. Johnson" jjohnsonx~xxlocogear.com Date: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:55 pm (PDT) I have done a lot of milling on my 12 x 36 lathe. Here are some things I have learned. Most of my milling has been with the milling attachment. 1. Do not attempt to do "climb" cutting. This will cause violent movement like you describe. You want to feed the work so that the cutting edge of the end mill does not grab into the work. 2. In your example, set the compound to 45-degrees and take out any slack in the lead screw. 3. When feeding work into the cutter, from the front (operator side) to the back, you should be cutting on the top side of the end mill cutter. When feeding work from the back to the front, you should be cutting on the bottom of the end mill cutter. 4. I find that cutting away a chip about an area of 0.020" x 0.020" in mild steel is about the limit on this lathe. 5. Use 4-flute end mills. You need as many teeth on the work as possible to keep down the chatter. 6. Don't use a chuck to hold the end mill. Get an end mill holder with a set screw to hold it and make a draw bar to hold the holder into the taper. 7. I normally use a 3/8" end mill, but have gone up to 1/2" and also smaller sizes. Check out the LocoGear Technical Bulletin-06 on my web site to see some of the milling I have done. www.LocoGear.com John D.L. Johnson 3879 Woods Walk Blvd. Lake Worth, FL 33467-2359 ------- Re: Need some insight please Posted by: "royhilo1" royhilo1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:40 am (PDT) John, thanks for the benefit of your experience. It seems I was doing climb milling so I'll try it the other way. Additionally, I'll see whether there are any 4-flute bits in the arsenal and also look for a holder. By the way, your website was quite good and your work impressive/inspiring. ------- Re: Need some insight please Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:46 am (PDT) In addition to the good advice already given about climb milling, etc. it's important to realize that an end mill in a light machine cuts best on its end, not on its side. Taking, say, an .020" cut the full diameter of a 3/4" end mill would be fine. Taking an .020" cut 3/4" long using the side of that same end mill might not be. John Martin ------- Re: insight please Posted by: "SupportOurTroops - Skip" mkc1951x~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:55 pm (PDT) Obviously everything has to be tight. I suspect the main problem is Surface feet per minute and chip load. Using a 1/2" end mill you should be running around 800 rpm for cutting mild steel at 100 SFM with a HSS cutter. If you are using carbide the speed should be 2 to 5 times that. A 1/4" end mill needs to run twice that, et. If you are cutting aluminum the SFM needs to be much more. Same with turning on the lathe. You need to adjust the speed vs diameter to get the commended SFM for any particular material. Depth of cut and feed rate are a compromise with each other and don't figure that much into the SFM. I'm relatively new to metal work so others could probably shed more light. Here is a chart for SFM for any particular diameter. atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com and here is an excellent page for learning more about this subject including a great chart that show the recommended SFM for each particular metal. http://www.endmill.com/pages/training/spdfeed.htm If you get tired of charts and calculations I have a digital tachometer that will figure the SFM for you. Just put in the diameter of the cutting tool or work piece and it reads SFM. Skip Campbell mkctools.com ------- Milling on the Atlas 12..... Posted by: "standupstew1" standupstew1x~xxyahoo.ca ate: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:54 am (PDT) Roy,what I suspect is happening,is that the movement in both the top and cross slide, is actually the backlash being taken up by the machining forces. I have had this happen myself in the past. You do not specify, but, when milling in the lathe, it is important not to "climb mill". This is the practise where the cutting edges of the endmill, are fed into the work,so that the direction of rotation is tending to pull the work into the endmill. The correct way is so that the cutting edges are tending to push the work away. This is not easy to describe, but is easy to understand, when it is seen in practise. Climb milling will tend to take up the backlash, and cause the effect you described. It doesn't matter how well adjusted your gibs are, you will still have this effect if you have excessive backlash in your feed screws. Standup stew -------- Milling on the Atlas 12..... Posted by: "royhilo1" royhilo1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:49 am (PDT) Yes, I suspected excessive backlash to be part of the problem. Looks like I need to replace the leadscrews or nuts or both. Not looking forward to trying to cut new ones so maybe I can find some for sale. Also, thanks to everyone who gave their suggestions. This forum is great. Just like having a private consultant on call. ------- Milling attachment on a 12 x 36 [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" eltonclarkx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:36 pm ((PDT)) *I've just come into an original Atlas milling attachment for my late Atlas 12 x 36 power cross-feed lathe. I'm going to be starting out with #2 Morse taper tooling in a #3 Morse adapter in the headstock.* *I plan to play around with some plastic and aluminum projects first but I really don't find much information in my Atlas books on using the attachment. . I'd really appreciate any advice I could get from those who've "been there and done that". * ------- Re: Milling attachment on a 12 x 36 Posted by: "n8as1x~xxaol.com" n8as1x~xxaol.com Date: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:26 pm ((PDT)) absolutely no 'climb milling " ....breaks cutters, destroys work ....mill attach are an EXPERTS tool ..like a .410 shotgun ..unfortunately that's where both users usually start.....keep overhangs to minimum ...use collets or preferably endmill holders w/ THROUGH BOLT ,not tanged,radial forces dislodge a tang ,,, no larger than 3/8 till u learn ur way around ... work holding ridgidity is biggest problem ..tighten up slide gibs... i can take a .030 full width cut w/ a 3/8 endmill on my 6x18 ....more on my 12x36.....atlas mill attach are the best around since they mount in place of compound ( less to move ) u must mill against the cutter so that it tries to throw cutter BACK at u , rather than sucking it in ..slop in xslide will cause dig in ...if new to milling , pick up machine tool operation ,by burghardt vol 2 ..( vol1 is lathes & very worthwile also ...all editions ok ...used books , ebay .....lots around.... best wishes docn8as ps i thot my mill attach lousy 40 years ago , ..bought a horiz mill ...after learning a fair amt , i now think they are useful for light milling when set up RIGHT ...just remember , u do not have the ridgidity of a mill drill , never mind a bridgeport.....( it beats an x/y table on a drill press all to h---) ....been there too) ------- Re: Milling attachment on a 12 x 36 Posted by: "Rexarino" rexarinox~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:51 pm ((PDT)) It was mentioned by n8as1, but I'll repeat it. Use only tool holders and tooling with a drawbar! The spiral of a cutter tends to pull the cutter out of the spindle when it is presented to the work. Without the restraint of a drawbar, sooner or later you will find a wildly spinning, very sharp cutter attempting to deprive you of some of your personal parts. At the very least, you'll damage the lathe, workpiece, and/or cutter. rexarino ------- Re: Milling attachment on a 12 x 36 Posted by: "Steve" skadsmx~xxpeoplepc.com Date: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:27 am ((PDT)) I will third what they said and add that you should consider getting some 3MT end mill holders (as they said, drawbar, not tang) and NOT use endmills in collets. My Pratt & Whitney mill has a drawbar that takes a 1-1/2" wrench a foot long, and you can get enough force on that to hold an end mill in a collet. Trying to hold an endmill with a drawbar tightened with a handwheel is asking for trouble. I set up a bracket to hold my rotary table vertical on a the slotted cross slide and was in the middle of milling a part when the end mill crept out and marked my otherwise pristine rotab. You can get a 5-pc set of MT3 end mill holders for $80: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?Pro ductID=1636&category= If your end mills all have 1/2" shank, you can get just one for $17: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?Pro ductID=1633&category= BTW, I just picked up a MT3 milling machine arbor for $30 (with spacers). I may be able to do some interesting work with that, and the price was right (makes a good test bar too). Steve ------- Re: Milling attachment on a 12 x 36 Posted by: "Jeff Beck" tools4cheapx~xxaol.com Date: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:25 pm ((PDT)) FYI I sell a nicer quality 9 pc set for $125. http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=mt3emset Jeff ------- Milling on a lathe [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Steve Mayall" stevemayallx~xxfastmail.fm Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:01 am ((PST)) Hi All. Dumb question time again :-) When I bought my lathe, the guy showed me a collet with a long rod which it screws onto. He told me you could use it for milling by inserting it into the lathe chuck. Can anyone tell me how this is achieved? For example, what do you fit in the collet? Some kind of blade? Also, if the collet is in the headstock, where does your workpiece go? I definitely learned this at school, but that was a few decades ago. Thanks Steve ------- Re: Milling on a lathe Posted by: "Joe R" jromasx~xxcolumbus.rr.com Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:52 am ((PST)) Steve. The threaded part is a "drawbar" and pulls the MT taper mill holder into the head stock. The endmill is held in the holder by a set screw. There's a "milling attachment" that fits on your cross slide after removing the compound that acts like a vice and holds your workpiece. It sticks upward from the cross slide. Here's a link to a manual for it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ATLAS-CRAFTSMAN-2987-Milling-Attac hment-Part-Manual_W0QQitemZ310014253325QQihZ021QQcat egoryZ25281QQcmdZViewItem?refid=store Joe R ------- Re: Milling on a lathe Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:10 am ((PST)) The milling attachment adds travel in the vertical direction, but it's not absolutely necessary. You'll see that a lot of English lathes had cross slides with T-slots, which allowed you to clamp workpieces to them for milling (or for boring). If the height was critical, you used packing pieces or shims under the workpiece to adjust it. Before I had a milling machine, I did a few milling jobs on the lathe using an angle plate that I made from a piece of 1/2" thick angle iron. One leg was faced and bored to fit over the round dovetail for the compound slide, which it replaced. The other leg was flycut on the lathe to clean it up and had a shallow 1/4" or so slot milled across it. With a ground tool bit in the slot to serve as a stop, shims to adjust the workpiece to that stop, and the use of different sizes of end mills, I could adjust things to get just the cuts I needed. Making, for example, T-slot nuts. Milling on the lathe, though, is not much fun. It's not rigid enough to take more than light cuts, and you can't work with pieces of any real size. A milling machine is a tremendous improvement. John Martin ------- Re: Milling on a lathe Posted by: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" eltonclarkx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:32 am ((PST)) *Totally agree with John. I have borrowed an original milling attachment and used it with my late model 12 x 36. It is painfully slow, limited and hard to use even on aluminum. I'd hate to see someone pay the going Ebay rate for a milling attachment, collets and drawbar instead of going ahead with a mill purchase. I'd love to have an Atlas mill!* Tony ------- Re: Milling on a lathe Posted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.com Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:49 am ((PST)) One problem with milling on a lathe vs. a milling machine is that it's all too easy to attempt a climb milling operation in a lathe (well, maybe it's just me, but the changes in geometry), adding in a slack cross slide or slack in the clamping and you have a minor disaster waiting to happen. I ended up pulling a 3/8" endmill out from a 2S collet - sideways. You know how much Hardinge wants for a 2S collet? I think milling on a lathe should be restricted to keyway cutting and such, at least until you're used to the restrictions. ------- Re: Milling on a lathe Posted by: "LouD31M066x~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:49 am ((PST)) There is one function that would make me want to own one...duplicating gears as shown in Manual of Lathe Operations. Louis ------- Re: Milling on a lathe Posted by: "n8as1x~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:13 pm ((PST)) this is redundant, but milling on a lathe is a lot like a .410 shotgun ...its a job for an expert ...,not a beginner.....that said, w/in size & depth of cut limitations, it can be done .....i thot mine worthless 35 yrs ago ...after i got a mill & some more experience, i found it usable.... worthwhile to note that they were originally called keyway cutters.... FWIW ...i can take a .030 full diameter cut on 1018 w/ a 3/8 endmill on my 6x18 ...no overhang, TIGHT in the vise, all gibbs snug...carefully !!!! ...reckon the 12x36 shud do more....properly using a mill, cantilever arms are near absent, on a mill attach, they are all over the place & therein lies the rub FWIW ..u can buy a one to 3 thou # horiz mill for 1/2 of what u will pay for an equivalent condition atlas mill , & u will be way better equipped. ( aftermarket vertical head for atlas mill ,3/8 max endmill, no quill for vert movement just went off ebay for $838). at some auctions,they are near given away for less than scrap ..roll back wrecker will gently lay it in ur garage if u dont want to fool with it ....i have always rigged my own stuf , but i capitulated on the last two 4500# shapers & called the local roll back guy to slide them off the farm trailer...( too heavy for the front end bucket ) ...occaisional free machine work sometimes pays off....but the atlas is a cute lil bugger....IMO...the atlas 7 in does more work for shaping,than the atlas horiz mill does for milling....( sure that cud be stated better ) best wishes docn8as ------- Re: Milling on a lathe Posted by: "Steve Mayall" stevemayallx~xxfastmail.fm Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:26 am ((PST)) Hi All: Just a note to day thanks for all your replies on this. I've had quite a few and it's great that there's so much knowledge out there. I'm short of a milling adaptor for the lathe, it'll have to wait till I've got a few more pennies to spend. >From what I understand, milling is possible on the lathe, but it's not as good as a proper milling machine. The attraction of using the lathe for me is the lack of space in my shed. Suppose I could have another shed... For now I'll play around with the basic operations. I've just received chuck keys for both ends (A good start) and ordered a live centre. Next I need to make a swarf tray and something to provide a suds feed for cutting. May an old fire ashpan and a fish tank pump? We'll see... My first project is a vertical wind turbine. Should be quite easy - hopefully! Cheers Steve ------- Re: Milling on a lathe Posted by: "n8as1x~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:39 am ((PST)) steve ...since 1957, in basement home shop, i have never felt the need for coolant while running the lathe ....really an unessesary mess for non production, one off use......bacon grease,crisco,lard /30 wt oil for thrding & filthy engine oil for parting off, applied by one of wife's squeeze bottles has sufficed..& after EPA forced suppliers to discontinue their exotic chems, & they returned to animal/.vegetable oils ,i reckon my stuff is at least as good as theirs....u can also rig a can w/ flex nozzle & valve for supplying parting fluid..olde tymers used to clamp attach to top of toolpost, freeing up one hand... john martin's post of an angle plate w/ a horiz.slot for location & adding tool bit shims of various sizes & thinner has real merit for the "poor boy approach " ..victor machinery exchange has morse 2& 3 blanks that u can drill (& BORE for final, or it will have runout) to hold endmills, & drill/tap the tang end for a drawbar (can be as simple as all thrd & couple nuts, or u can get creative w/ handwheels & thrust bearings)..no reason why u cant bolt on a 3-4 in rectangular dril press vise(all positions usable), maybe provide guides /slots for controlled movement ...travers tool has a great one for abt $20 ..really high QUALITY vise ...liked mine so well i ordered another that i have absolutely no use for at present. but it stays in the box..something will come up ...u may also be able to scrounge a top slide somewhere & rig it via the angle plate. drill/tap the angle plate for clamp bolts where needed..& u will need an angle plate alont the way anyway ....enco has them on sale & w/ free shipping next few months, they are so cheap it is tempting to load up... i used to make nearly all my tooling , cutters, special taps,dies, reamers, counter bores .....this china stuff is taking away all my fun & it really has gotten a LOT better last few years....bought a china quick change for my monarch A & needed to make a T plate to attach ... metric .14 x 1.5 IIRC tap needed ...so i made one ..2hrs...saw it in sale catalog for under $5.used to be $15 OR SO ....now that REALLY takes the fun away .....& if i had really been thinking, maybe wud have swapped out the bolt for 9/16 ".... best wishes docn8as ps ..get on enco, travers tool, wttool, sale catalog list ...opens up new worlds...or go to internet ,if ur system is a lot better than this d--- dialup ... ------- Milling Attachment (s) and projects [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "indianfourrider" indianfourriderx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:08 pm ((PST)) Be careful what you ask for - someone asked me to post some more of my projects so since there had been a thread on milling in the lathe I thought I share what I've done. The album is creatively entitled, "Milling Projects" and the pictures fall into three categories. First are two shots of my shop-made milling attachment and one of it being used. I am extremely fortunate to have a source of both round and flat bar stock. The owner of a local fastener company attends the church I serve so I have access to their dumpster! It's like Christmas every time I go there. The second group is of a holder I am making for Empire "T" shaped parting-off blades. A pile of these, still with the protective dip on the cutting edge, was in one of the boxes that came with my 12x36. I'm way too cheap to buy one of Empire's tool holders, so... The mounting block will also be used for a larger boring/threading bar that's still somewhere between my head and paper. Like Doc said, sketching sometimes helps... The last shots are the rest of the carburetor repair some of you commented on from the album of the same name. Once the threaded nipple was secured, the passages from the needle valves had to be redrilled. Removing the factory-installed plugs resulted in some pretty ugly damage on one side. The repair came out surprisingly well. BTW - the piece I used to mount the Unimat onto the compound is the same piece used to mount the milling attachment. The milling attachment is a stinker to get aligned and I didn't take any pictures of the base before mounting it. It is a chunk of 1"x4" cold rolled about 6" long (yes, from the dumpster!) with the 1.5" dia recess machined into one face. Time to go find some tweezers to get that one stubborn little steel whisker out of my finger! Thanks again for all of the wisdom and support! ------- Re: Milling Attachment (s) and projects Posted by: "Steve Mayall" stevemayallx~xxfastmail.fm Date: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:23 pm ((PST)) Nothing to do with milling, but you commented on getting free stock. I really enjoy doing things for free too, so I rang around all the local fabrication places when I was learning to weld and asked if I could scrounge any free offcuts. Some places clearly weren't interested, but one place said I could go along and filch their skip. It was full of sheet metal, angle iron rod, bar etc. I'm popping back up there this week to see if I can get some more bar for my lathe. Just goes to show, if you have a bit of cheek, you can do this for free. I also have a whisker in my finger. It's off a wire wheel which I used in a drill while cleaning something. Been in for days, and is too deep to remove. Really irritating. This always happens when I don't wear gloves. There must be a connection somewhere.... Cheers Steve ------- Re: Milling Attachment (s) and projects Posted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" Date: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:45 am ((PST)) About scrounging for scrap and off cuts. If you are hitting on local machine shops etc for scrap, take along a sample of what you are doing with your lathe. I know when I bring along a little steam engine, either a "wobbler" or my Stuart H-10 I get a lot more scrap (some of it looks pretty good for scrap) then just walking in and asking to go through their scrap bin. I have had all the workers stop and look, examine and play with one of my little steam engines. (got to stop and hook it to the shop air line, just to see it run) You also have to remember that many shops sell their scrap to some dealer at so much per pound, so if you need any quantity offer to pay the going rate for scrap. ------- NOTE TO FILE: ADVICE ABOUT MILLING ON A LATHE, INCLUDING A CHEAP ALTERNATIVE SETUP. See the Sherline Mods General (Lathe and Mill) file with subject Re: Introduction -- starting Mar 4, 2008. Good info for an Atlas or most other lathes. ------- Milling Attachment for 12x36 Palmgren? [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "porscheman54" james.ricex~xxgmail.com Date: Wed May 14, 2008 2:45 pm ((PDT)) Having been outbid or out sniped for the last three milling attachments for my Atlas 12x36, I'm being forced to look elsewhere. Has anyone used a Palmgren 400v milling attachment? I've been looking at them today as I need to do a small bit of milling. I do plan to buy a mini-mill eventually but I need a stop gap measure at this time and a milling attachment would probably fit the bill - and my budget. Or as an alternative, does anyone have a milling attachment for the 12x36 that they would like to sell? James ------- Re: Milling Attachment for 12x36 Palmgren? Posted by: "KD" KDsalezx~xxcox.net Date: Wed May 14, 2008 2:55 pm ((PDT)) Hi James: I made one for my 12X36. It is not as sophisticated as the factory but it does get small jobs done. I could make another if the price is right. Email me off site to discuss if you would like. TR ------- Re: Milling Attachment for 12x36 Palmgren? Posted by: "James Walther" indianfourriderx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed May 14, 2008 5:02 pm ((PDT)) If you have a welder or access to one a stop-gap milling attachment isn't that hard to cobble together. I used a HF cross slide vise as the basis. There are pictures in an album "Milling Projects" I'll be happy to provide details and more pictures if you're interested. Feel free to email me so we don't inflict our conversations on the rest of the group! Regards, Jim ------- Re: Milling Attachment for 12x36 Palmgren? Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" Date: Wed May 14, 2008 8:56 pm ((PDT)) Not a 400, but I do have a 250.... the smaller intermediate size unit. I think it is otherwise identical to the 400. You probably want the 250 instead of the 400, for an Atlas, which is roughly the same size as my 10" Logan as far as the carriage parts. The Atlas type is likely FAR better.... the Palmgren has a LOT of "stick- out" and "hang-over" to deal with, and wobbles lots more due to relying on more dovetail ways "in series with" the mounting than the Atlas. The Atlas as you know, mounts in place of the compound. The Palmgren mounts ON TOP OF the compound, and then sticks out from it. Picture of the 250 mounted on a Logan: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/?action=view&cur rent=Palmgren.jpg I found it was OK for very light work, mainly keyway cutting etc. It was really NOT suitable for what I wanted to do. The way the Palmgren is made also has the difficulty of being able to fall over sideways, as it spins on a through bolt which is meant to allow you to tilt the vise part. You can see that in the picture, there is an angle scale showing. The vise and vertical slide can be tilted at an angle. It CAN release the vise to flop over sideways if the bolt loosens from vibration. I ended up pinning mine vertical to prevent that. I got mine for a fairly cheap price, and it was barely worth it. I still have it, kept in reserve for real emergency work, but I REALLY hate having to use it. JT ------- Vertical slide for 10F [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "jmileman" jmilemanx~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Fri Jan 2, 2009 1:10 pm ((PST)) Hi all. When I finally get my 10F up and running I fancy having a go at some light milling - I know a proper mill is really the way to go but funds and space won't allow for this :) The offical Atlas milling attachment is a rare beast in the UK so will have to go for a third party vertical slide and I was thinking along the lines of the bottom one here: http://tinyurl.com/7aljz5 Problem is I'm not sure how this would attach to the saddle as it looks like you would normally clamp this to the T-slots in a Myford type cross slide. Presumably I'll need to fabricate some sort of adapter but would I: 1. Attach to the saddle direct in place of the lower swivel 2. Leave the lower swivel where it is and mount the adapter to its spigot 3. Leave lower and upper swivels in place and mount in place of the tool slide 4. Mount on top of the tool slide 5. There's a simpler and more obvious way that I've completely overlooked Cheers Jim ------- Re: Vertical slide for 10F Posted by: "KD" KDsalezx~xxcox.net Date: Fri Jan 2, 2009 2:32 pm ((PST)) I built an adapter to mount the compound at a right angle to its original swivel. It provides limited stroke for small objects but provides the ability to do compound rotations to open many planes to milling. You can also mount a flexible shaft driven milling head in the compound to angle mill an item mounted on the lathe chuck. This increases the milling envelope somewhat. TR ------- Re: Vertical slide for 10F Posted by: "mertnedp" pdentremx~xxforterie.com Date: Fri Jan 2, 2009 8:10 pm ((PST)) Interesting that I just today finished making an adapter to mount my Palmgren 250 milling attachment to a second compound swivel that I can now leave pernamently mounted. I can also mount the swivel to a second carriage if I so wish. The adapter has some height to it. Bringing the center of rotation closer to the center of the lathe. I have posted 2 pictures on http://wrx-now.tripod.com see the Atlas page. It may give you some ideas for your own. ------- Re: Vertical slide for 10F Posted by: "Robert Silas" robert.silasx~xxvideotron.ca Date: Fri Jan 2, 2009 8:54 pm ((PST)) I checked out your pictures. Very nice job, almost too nice. I worked with very old lathes where the cross feed was working by pulling out of the knob, I had no problem with that. Robert ------- Re: Vertical slide for 10F - other options Posted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za Date: Sat Jan 3, 2009 1:45 am ((PST)) Hi Jim: Given that you are in the UK, have you had a look at the slotted cross slide that Griffiths Engineering has on offer? See the Atlas accessories section in http://www.lathes.co.uk/page8.html This would allow you to fit the vertical slide from the same source, or, I believe, any of the Myford vertical slides. The slotted cross slide would also allow you to fix work pieces directly to the cross slide for facing, etc. - a very useful feature and the one significant advantage the Myford has over the Atlas type construction. (I have both lathes so don't anybody accuse me of favouritism - they each have their strong points!) Kind Regards, Carvel ------- [atlas_618lathe] Just uploaded Craftsman Installation and Operating Instructions PDF Posted by: "pdjohnson07" pdjohnson07x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Apr 1, 2010 11:15 am ((PDT)) Hey everyone, I just uploaded the Craftsman version of the Installation and Operating Instructions sheet for the Milling Attachment. It came with my lathe and I scanned it in case anyone wanted the Craftsman version. The file name is milling_attachment.pdf in the Files section. Enjoy! ------- Palmgren milling attachments [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "b.tetzner" b.tetznerx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue May 25, 2010 3:29 pm ((PDT)) Hi Guys, I just acquired an old Palmgren 250 milling attachment. I think it will fit my Atlas 12x36 lathe. Does anybody have any ideas on how to best mount this thing safely? I am concerned that the toolpost on my lathe is rather flimsy. Any help would be appreciated, looks like I will have to fabricate a mounting bracket. I can post a photo if need be, and I can figure out how. Ben ------- Re: Palmgren milling attachments Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jtiers Date: Tue May 25, 2010 7:43 pm ((PDT)) http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/?action=view&cur rent=Palmgren.jpg Actually a blank cutter as a crossbar in the lantern post to hold it down. I had to put a small block in to hold it out far enough to clear some features of the compound and carriage..... without sticking out too far. You may not have that problem. You won't be taking any cuts heavy enough to stress the post or compound if the compound is not stuck out too far. JT ------- Re: Palmgren milling attachments Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm ((PDT)) I would make an adapter to replace the topslide with a matching point for the milling attachment. The compound just adds to the instability of the stackup and is not needed for milling. Look at the Atlas attachment for an idea. ------- Re: Palmgren milling attachments Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jtiers Date: Wed May 26, 2010 5:26 am ((PDT)) Actually, having the compound will be found to be very handy, and in some cases nearly essential. Without it, your depth of cut adjustment axial to the cutter is by coarse and crude movement via the handwheel, or moving the part in the vise, etc. No dial. In some ways, I'd rather have no crossfeed dial than no dial on the compound feed direction. Lots of milling machines have lever feed for the table, which corresponds to the lathe crossfeed. JT ------- Re: Palmgren milling attachments Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed May 26, 2010 6:43 am ((PDT)) I guess you could use it that way. I used the carriage stop to adjust depth of cut, before I got a mill and got rid of the milling attachment. ------- Re: Palmgren milling attachments Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jtiers Date: Wed May 26, 2010 7:24 pm ((PDT)) "carvel webb" wrote: > Another option is to fit a graduated handwheel to the leadscrew as per > Myford and Emco Maximat , That works "OK", but the halfnut slop is usually a lot more than the compound slop..... you know which gets used more....., and that much slop tends to take you for a bumpy ride, not so good for the work. You can get around that, but locking the carriage and using the compound is nice... Plus you get the benefit of a somewhat "universal" mill, as you can adjust the angle. JT ------- Re: Palmgren milling attachments Posted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za Date: Wed May 26, 2010 10:31 pm ((PDT)) The Maximat has an advantage that it has separate shafts for feeding and threading, so the leadscrew on mine is still nice and tight. From the Atlas point of view noted and agreed. The optional boring table for the Atlas also depends on using the compound. Regards, Carvel ------- Milling attachment [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.com Date: Tue Jun 8, 2010 12:56 pm ((PDT)) I've been thinking that I wanted a milling attachment for my 12" A/C for a while but I couldn't bring myself to spend the $200 to $300 that any of them go for on Ebay and Craigslist. I had a brain storm one day and decided to make one. I have to take the compound off of the cross slide to mount the commercial units and I thought why not use the compound when I take it off instead of putting it on the shelf. I used my cutting torch to cut up an old 3/4" thick steel plate lifting lug that had been cut off of an pressure vessel and using my Harbor Freight horizontal band saw, 1955 Walker Turner drill press and 1951 A/C lathe, made an angle plate and a vise to go with the compound and voila, milling attachment. I finished it today and milled a test piece and it works just fine for what it will do. It is easy and quick enough to set up, it is at least as rigid as the commercial ones and it didn't cost me anything more than my time and some socket head set screws to put it together with. It ain't a milling machine but it will do small pieces and do a good job of them. Pictures on Photobucket: http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c76/bsroth/Milling%20Attachment/ Bill in Houston ------- Re: Milling attachment Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 8, 2010 1:14 pm ((PDT)) That's a good looking piece of work, Bill. I have been looking for one myself. I checked Sears parts Direct, just out of curiosity, entered the original Atlas Part Number 500A to see if they might have one and lo and behold they do. In stock for only $1152.07 plus shipping. http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/getPart!search.pd?part Number=500A&pathTaken=partSearch) What did yours cost? All of $10.00, maybe? Great work, thanks for sharing, Dan ------- aux spindle project [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:24 pm ((PDT)) For azbruno and anyone else who is interested, here are a couple pics of my second spindle set up for a quick milling project. From the headstock side: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4694982006_62a1559a00_b.jpg You can see the aux spindle power supply in the background sitting on a drill press table (because I haven't finished a small power supply yet) and the spindle on the cross-slide table. The piece being milled is parallel to and behind the bed, on a sort of sub-bed I made by clamping some aluminum plate to the bed. (I figure aluminum clamped to cast iron shouldn't hurt the iron.) The setup might make more sense if you see it from the tailstock end: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4694348103_336d6ce9ab_b.jpg [Copy of pic on computer here with title Atlas Lathe Milling Setup.] The spindle is cut from steel, loaded in two press-fit angular contact bearings in an aluminum housing. The spindle is cut MT2/threaded 1-10, so I can use 618 components, and has an ER32 collet in it. The motor is from an electric bike: 1/3 horsepower in a package smaller than a soupcan. The drive has just slightly too large a pulley -- I thought I could use a smaller-diameter drivebelt -- so it just barely rubs on the cross-slide where the oil hole is. It's not great for milling since it mounts to the cross slide in place of the compound slide, and that's not really meant to take lifting or twisting loads, like you see when you're milling. The next version will replace the cross-slide with a plate to which a z axis will bolt, so it can better take strange loads. (And I can mount stuff on it for line-boring.) The intent of this version was just to be able to drill radial bolt patterns using the indexing on the bullgear or on an indexer I've made that attaches to the gear end of the spindle, and maybe do some radial milling or external/internal grinding-type stuff. But I've proven to myself that I can make acceptable spindles and drives, and it was sure nice having 0.001" depth control over a 14" cut, even if I could only take about 0.010" per pass. ------- Re: Milling Attachment [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.net Date: Wed Jul 7, 2010 8:15 pm ((PDT)) "sixxto2002" wrote: > Anybody have experience milling on their lathe? Would you recommend it or is a mini mill the better way to go for small projects. TIA < I've done quite a bit of milling on a lathe. Quite a bit of that was on a lathe even smaller than the 618, and I've produced a lot of 'stuff'. I think what most people have trouble with is treating the milling attachment as if it were an actual small mill, and expecting it to do more than it can get done. It's a compromise in the most literal sense of the word, and that has to be fully realized in sizing work for the setup. Can you do good work with a milling attachment? Heck yes. It will have to be small, and it will take you a long time. You absolutely must have your machine in good trim. Tools have to be sharp, and setups must be well thought out. There's no way around those requirements. In the end, if you can manage the money for a small mill, like the truly excellent Taig mill, you will be much better off. It will do real work that belies its size. Truly a quality machine. See my web pages for a few things made using only a very small lathe and milling attachment. See the same pages to see what can be done on the Taig milling machine. http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html If a milling machine is not in the cards, a milling attachment for the lathe will help you do more than with just the lathe alone. Dean ------- Re: Milling Attachment Posted by: "n2irz" donrotolox~xxoptimum.net Date: Fri Jul 9, 2010 6:51 pm ((PDT)) I also do a fair bit of milling on my 618, but none of it is what anyone would call "heavy". Mostly in plastics or machining foam (kinda like wood), sometimes in aluminum. It is indeed a compromise, and you have to go slow and easy. Better than nothing, but not by a whole lot. Don ------- Re: Milling Attachment Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:14 am ((PDT)) I've been taking cuts of .080 depth (.160 diameter reduction) with .0078 feed in CRS using an HSS knife tool with no problems at all. Surface speed about 40 fps. Just now with a free-machining steel I took a cut of .120 at .0078 feed and 60 sfpm without trouble, same knife tool. Yours, David Beierl -- Providence RI USA Atlas 618 6"/3/index.html" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill. ------- Re: Milling Attachment Posted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.net Date: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:12 pm ((PDT)) Yes, the little 618 will do quite a bit of work, David. That beautiful little back gear will really let it munch, and on a sturdy bench, it will get at it. I don't usually take more than about .050" DOC in anything, just to give the small tumbler gear a bit of breathing room. I popped the 20t one a while back when going at it a bit too hard. It doesn't have a lot of meat, and takes all the torque from the spindle. I made a new one in about an hour of shop time, but could have saved that chore just by backing off a touch on the infeed on the cross slide. Good lathe. Sharp tools bring out the best in it. Dean ------- Re: Milling Attachment Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net Date: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:28 pm ((PDT)) 'Preciate that...it will be a while before I'm making my own gears. Yours, David ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a message in the file "Toolholders for the Lathe" that will be of interest to those using a lathe for milling. See Scott Henion's message there dated Sat Jul 31, 2010 with the subject: Re: re home made toolposts. ------- Milling attachment questions... [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "doninrenox~xxsbcglobal.net" Date: Wed Apr 6, 2011 8:46 am ((PDT)) I have seen milling attachments for the A/C lathes and sometimes wonder about having one. They Do seem to be kind of expensive, but then I may be able to trade or partially trade one of my steady rests for one. (Anyone intersted?..I have two and only need one.) Sooo...the questions: (1) How accurate are they? (2) How useful are they, really? (3) Do you all generally consider them to be worth the cost? (4) They appear to be pretty easy to mount and use...is what I think correct? Thanks...Any help is GREATLY appreciated! ------- Re: Milling attachment questions... Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Wed Apr 6, 2011 9:05 am ((PDT)) As accurate as your cross slide and carriage ;) I use mine from time to time. A pain to set up and use. The area is small and I always seem to be running past the end of the cross slide screw when using the mill attachment. It is nice to have, but I do really want a mill. I see them go for over $200. I'd look for a used mill. I have seen the small Chinese ones go used for a bit more. Would be more useful. You need to set it up each time to get the slide square. Not bad once set up. You will also need a collet to hold milling bits. That adds to the cost. You can make one if needed out of an MT3 blank. Scott G. Henion Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 ------- Re: Milling attachment questions... Posted by: "Bruce Freeman" freemab222x~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Apr 6, 2011 11:48 am ((PDT)) I have a milling attachment and am satisfied with it. I cannot attest to accuracy, because I don't work to any great accuracy. That said, I expect I work to 0.001" on MOST things I turn. Some just don't matter and could be done freehand -- in principal. My milling attachment had had surface rust and had been cleaned up by the seller. The tiny pits are obvious, but not a problem to me. I think I may have polished the scale a bit, and filled the marks with something black -- but I can't recall exactly. I say this so you won't think you need a pristine device. I have used the milling attachment as a tool holder to great effect. It is much more rigid than a lantern tool holder. I don't have a QCTP, so can't make the comparison. I have done comparatively little actual milling with the thing, and what I have done has been to "freehand" standards. I hold my milling bits in a Jacobs chuck or, if necessary, in 3- jaw chuck. Yes, I know that's a no-no, but it works for the jobs I've done. One can check centering with a dial indicator, not that it would be easy to correct the centering if it's off. Bruce NJ ------- Re: Milling attachment questions... Posted by: "EdwinB" n5kzwx~xxarrl.net Date: Thu Apr 7, 2011 10:23 am ((PDT)) When I broke an irreplaceable part on my old Craftsman bandsaw, I bought the milling adapter for my A/C 618. I was able to make a workable replacement, but the experience was so dissatisfying, I went out and bought a knee mill. Now, milling is fun! Regards, Ed ------- Re: Milling attachment questions... Posted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za Date: Thu Apr 7, 2011 10:59 am ((PDT)) Have you had a look at the descriptions in the Atlas manual -- they illustrate what can be done, plus some other options such as mounting work directly on the saddle? I agree with other comments that a separate mill is first prize, but a lot can be done with the attachment if one does not have the space or means to accommodate a separate mill. Regards, Carvel ------- Re: Milling attachment questions... Posted by: "Richard Marchi" rfmarchix~xxaol.com Date: Fri Apr 8, 2011 12:13 pm ((PDT)) Ed: I agree with the other comments; some milling jobs are within the capability of an Atlas milling attachment. However, given their limitations and cost, I'd steer you toward a real mill. For instance, I bought a Burke # 4 table mill that came with a vertical head for $600. It is a real knee mill with a strong spindle and powerful gear head motor. I subsequently picked up the horizontal overarm for $50 and, with some additional investment in a vise and tooling, I have a really flexible setup. It's not got the size capability of a full size mill, but I can make most parts I need to. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to do. Dick ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following thread started about cutting slits in a tube and that original conversation has been recorded here in the file Cut or Saw Metal starting 26 May 2011. As often happens, the conversation went off the original topic and that portion has been recorded here. ------- Re: How to cut an accurate 0.025" slot in the end of a tube? Posted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Sun May 29, 2011 5:52 am ((PDT)) On May 28, 2011, at 10:57 AM, "artmalin" wrote: > Rick - Thanks for the link to the step-by-step procedure you used for making a 'Dremel' attachment. I'm fairly new to metalworking and ave been at your site off and on for three years (according to my history at Del.ico.us); it is one of my favorites and have learned quite a bit from you articles. Your site is very helpful to someone new to metalworking. < Art, I'm glad you found value at my web site. In the next few days I plan to publish another in my series of machining for people new to the hobby. It will explain how to make an L shaped bracket. Can you think of similar topics or projects that would be helpful? Best of luck with your Atlas. I certainly enjoy my Atlas/Craftsman lathe. Rick ------- Re: How to cut an accurate 0.025" slot in the end of a tube? Posted by: "Ben D'Avanza" bendavanzax~xxgmail.com Date: Sun May 29, 2011 7:02 am ((PDT)) I would like to see info on actually using the milling attachment properly. It seems that my experience (newb) has been sloppy and I keep running off the end of the feed screw. Ben ------- Re: How to cut an accurate 0.025" slot in the end of a tube? Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Sun May 29, 2011 7:14 am ((PDT)) Yes, that is a problem. One thing to remember is you have a vertical axis. You have more travel up/down so you can use that. If possible face the vice jaws to the back of the lathe and work off the side. Scott G. Henion Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 ------- Intro and a question regarding milling. [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Eric" iron_hewer_70x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Aug 7, 2011 10:04 pm ((PDT)) My name is Eric and I'm new here. This site has been very informative for me as I begin the process of learning how to use my Atlas 618 lathe. I have a question regarding speed and the milling attachment. The only mention of spindle speed I've found is on the attachment instructions that says to run at speeds 2/3 that of regular turning. Is this a good rule of thumb or is there a better way of choosing the correct speed? Thanks in advance. Eric ------- Re: Intro and a question regarding milling. Posted by: "Rob Chapman" chapman49682x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Aug 8, 2011 10:46 am ((PDT)) I was taught that cutting speed on a mill is chosen exactly the same way as on a lathe, using the same formula for cutting speed: CS = 3.14 * Dia. (in inches) * RPM / 12 (I say "pie-D-RPM-over-12" to remember it. It's worked for more than 40 years.) Diameter would be the OD of the Mill. Cutting speed for mild steel (for instance) is 100. So, solve for RPM: RPM = 12 * CS / 3.14 * Dia. As you can see, for mild steel, 12 * 100 divided by 3.14 and again divided by Dia. will be real close to: 400 / Dia. Rob Chapman ------- Re: Intro and a question regarding milling. Posted by: "Terry Looney" loon432x~xxverizon.net Date: Mon Aug 8, 2011 10:47 am ((PDT)) Hi Eric: First of all, DO NOT hold the end mill in the three jaw chuck. The cutting forces on the helical flutes will draw the cutter out of the chuck, ruining your work piece and possibly your day. You need a dedicated end mill holder that fits in the Morse taper with a draw bolt through the spindle. To answer your question, spindle speed depends on the cutter diameter, cutter material, and work piece material. A good rule of thumb for steel would be 100 SFM (surface feet per minute) for a high speed cutter and 400 SFM for a carbide cutter. SFM is the distance the circumference of the cutter travels in feet per minute and is used because it negates the cutter diameter from the equation. Do a web search for "milling speeds and feeds" and you will find numerous calculators that will convert cutter diameter to RPM when you know the SFM. This is a great question and you will probably get many responses. There are chapters on the subject in all machine training textbooks. Hope this helps, Terry Looney ------- Re: Intro and a question regarding milling. Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Tue Aug 9, 2011 6:54 am ((PDT)) Eric: You've received some answers which are perfectly valid but they don't explain why Atlas would have said 2/3 the speed of regular turning. Milling attachments on lathes are not the most stable of attachments and can run into problems from the cutting forces being applied against what amount to long lever arms. Atlas was well aware of the situation. Might be smart to start out where Atlas suggested and make adjustments based on your personal experience acquired on your own equipment and the kind of milling that you're actually doing. The other point that's important is it's considered wise to avoid down milling on this kind of set up. It applies substantially greater loads on the lathe-mill and creates serious problems if there is any slack in your feed screws. Just a couple of thoughts. Others may have other opinions. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: Intro and a question regarding milling. Posted by: "Leo Reed" lpreedzonex~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:42 am ((PDT)) Good advice from Anthony. Other considerations should be the ability to lock slides that are not being use to feed the mill cutter. The carriage has a lock, as well as the Milling attachment's vertical slide. The one slide that has no lock is the cross slide. A lock can be made by replacing one of the gib screws, but one should try to use it as the feed. Climb milling should be avoided, if possible. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- NOTE TO FILE: October 2011: Review of Edgar T. Westbury's book "Milling in the Lathe". This book is available used through web vendors like Alibris or Amazon or Abebooks. Wait for a reasonably priced copy. We folks are not book collectors looking for pristine copies. A good readable copy is okay. Earlier in this file you have read about folks using their lathe for milling operations. And there were often opinions that folks would be far better off buying a milling machine because of limitations of the lathe for these operations. Obviously those folks have not read or applied the learning and tips and tricks available in Mr. Westbury's book. A lathe can do a lot more, and a lot better, than I thought. I recently received a copy of this book as a gift, and have just gotten around to reading it. My bad. I should have bought this book back when I got my first metal lathe. It would have saved me a lot of time and money. Mr. Westbury's book would be invaluable if you only read its tips on making your own milling cutters, or simple but ingenious setups and jigs for holding work. This is a most practical and all encompassing look at milling practices with emphasis on using the lathe. But lots of the tips would apply to a milling machine too. No, I get no recompense from the book's vendors, but I really do highly recommend it to you for your library, and development of your personal metalworking skills. ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a conversation that started with a title that suggested it was going to mainly discuss milling on the lathe (Atlas or other lathe). It actually is more about collets and their holders, but it does have some milling tips. See the thread now in the file here called Collets For Lathe or Mill titled: "Holding a mill in the headstock" starting Sat Dec 22, 2012. ------- [atlascraftsman] Re: Confused: what I need / how to install remove end mill ... Posted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com" Date: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:38 pm ((PST)) On 12/20/2012, racerx67x~xxinsightbb.com writes: > Got a 12" x 54" atlas lathe about 4-5 mo. ago. Been playing around with it and able to make some basic stuff but would like to mill a few simple parts as well. I've read can only make small passes, etc and it is limited on what you can do. I do not have any tooling at this point for milling. No end mills, or collets, drawbar etc. and have no idea how to install or remove the collets, what is a good starting point for what to purchase (on a budget of course) to start to goof around and learn the basics. I tried to do a search and found a few things but I'm still not clear. Any links or videos that you can share a link to is apreciated. < racerx67, You don't say specifically, but do you have the 500A Milling Attachment for the Atlas 10"/12/index.html"? If so, then all that you need to be able to play around with milling is a 3/8"-16 drawbar for 10"/12/index.html" (the rather plentiful one for the 6" is too short) and either an Atlas 1/2" milling cutter holder (and eventually the set of reducing bushings) or 3MT collets. And a few end mills to match either the cutter holder (it's a set screw type holder so you need the type of end mill with flats ground on the shank and often called Weldon from the name of the company that must have been either the first or early on the largest maker of the type) or whatever 3MT collets you have (for the collets you do NOT want the flatted shanks). As previously mentioned, you can improvise a drawbar from a length of 3/8"-16 all thread. But in place of several flat washers over the end of the spindle, you should make a short piloted thrust plate out of 1" dia. steel. About an inch long. Drill a 3/8" hole through the center. Turn a 3/4" dia. by about 1/8" pilot on one end. The cheapest starter would probably be the ersatz drawbar (all thread, nut and pilot), a 3/8" 3MT collet, and a 3/8" or 1/2" dia. 2-flute or 4-flute end mill with 3/8" dia. shank. Note that most 4-flute end mills with not cut to center. Meaning that you cannot drill a hole with them. Most but not all 2-flute end mills will cut to center. If you do not already have the Milling Attachment, you are probably looking at $100-$300 for one in decent condition. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) ------- Milling attachment for TH42 [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Dave Pinella" dpinellax~xxcinci.rr.com Date: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:15 pm ((PDT)) All, I've read of some milling attachment for the Atlas. I'm curious about it but I'm struggling finding information about it. Does it work well? Is it something that I should look for or should I into buying some other mill? Anything on eBay? Just trying to learn..... Dave P ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:34 pm ((PDT)) Dave, If you have the space and dollars for a standalone mill, buy it. If you don't, the milling attachment for the Atlas 10" and 12" does work fairly well for small parts. It mounts on the cross slide pintel in place of the compound and takes a bit of time to set up as you have to indicate it in every time you mount it. The instruction sheet for it is in the Files section under ...Accessories. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:42 pm ((PDT)) Dave, You will be somewhat limited in what you might want to do with an Atlas Milling attachment. Here is a link to a good video, 1 of 3 actually, on using the 500A milling attachments for the 10 & 12 inch lathes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVUK-h-0iWQ The gentleman who makes this and a whole series of videos, Mr, Lyle Peterson, is a great source for learning quite a few things about these Atlas/ Craftsman machines. I highly recommend you take the time to view this and his entire library of excellent videos. mrpete222's channel (aka tubalcain) There is also documentation for it in the Group FILES section in the Manuals, Atlas or Atlas-Craftsman Lathe Accessories folder Dan ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: "Eggleston Lance" wheezer606x~xxverizon.net Date: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:00 pm ((PDT)) I had one for the 12". I found it of very limited use, hard to tighten enough to withstand the cutting forces. I sold it and bought a Burke 4 horizontal mill, w' vert. head. That's a milling tool. lance ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: "Jay Greer" redwitch1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:15 pm ((PDT)) I do have a milling attachment for my 618 and, in a pinch it is ok for quick and dirty work. However, it is very difficult to work with as visibility is restricted and large travel is not possible due to the short cross feed movement. I really prefer having a dedicated mill for any serious work. jay ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:58 am ((PDT)) Dave, There are a few on ebay at the moment. Search for both Atlas and Craftsman. Sometimes searching for Sears will bring one up. Usually,#500A models for 10 & 12" lathes sell for $150 to $400 or more. Look for shipping to be $20 and more due to weight. Many do not have the vee block and flat block / "jaws" but they also show up, but are also not hard to make. If you study the parts list, you may also find several pieces individually that you can assemble. The Swivel (10-301), and handle are the same parts as on the lathe carriage, and plentiful. Careful and do not confuse it with the M6-500 model for the 6" lathes. Casting numbers on the 6" model will be marked M6. Don't forget to check Craigslist. Dan ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:16 am ((PDT)) Dave, Don't accidentally buy a Model 500. This fits only the 9" and early 10D and instead of the swivel base having the two square head screws and lock pins, it has two circumferential slots in the base that fit over studs in the cross slide. Incidentally, the vise on the 500A milling attachment also fits the cross slide. I made a Dremel holder that took advantage of this. Robert D. ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:27 am ((PDT)) Dave, As Robert has pointed out, the correct milling attachment for 10" & 12" lathes is Model 500A. Ask any potential seller what casting numbers are on the assembly. The main body will have the numbers "10-501" . The vise portion will have the numbers "10-502" The 6" version will have casting number M6-501. Dan ------- Milling attachments [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "warrengrant" warrengrantx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:34 pm ((PDT)) I note many people who are going after milling attachments. They have a place and a purpose but they leave a lot to be desired. I purchased a used 105-1120 to try to to get a little more accuracy. The problem is that you lose the Z axis when it's raised. I really can't think of any way to take it apart and put a v way on it so that doesn't happen. In the meantime I bought a knee machine so my advice is if you can wait, get a knee machine or at least one that has a way to stop the head from swinging. In the long run you will be much happier. Right now I'm using my Enco as a precision drill press so to speak and am still working on getting my knee machine running. Just my two cents worth. Thanks Warren ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:45 pm ((PDT)) March 31, 2013, "gene" wrote: >I have also been looking a milling attachments on ebay. The price is half the cost of a used lathe. It does not make sense to me. Has any one tried to build one. I do see plans on the net. I may give it a try if I can get my gear box back together. That is a whole new story. I may be looking for help with it later.< If the milling attachment is as much as has been quoted here ($400 !!!!!) then forget it. You can buy a small mill for not a LOT more than that, especially used, and just about ANY mill or mill-drill can chew up and spit out a milling attachment as far as utility and capability, rigidity, etc, etc, etc is concerned. The milling attachment is "Ok for cutting keyways"... while you CAN do almost anything (that fits, another issue) with one, it may take a LONG time... many many tiny cuts, each one risking a loosening and a "flop" that will ruin the part. The best type is a heavy flat t-slotted plate replacing the crosslide... that is the most solid... and least adjustable. You bolt down the item to be worked on. Next best, and more versatile is the "Metal lathe Accessories" milling attachment kit. It's massive/heavy enough to behave as a decent milling attachment. The Atlas/Southbend type is workable, but lightweight, with a large lever arm. The Palmgren type that goes on the compound is very very "bouncy" on most small lathes... a characteristic you do NOT want. On a big heavy machine with a massive 18" carriage, it is likely acceptable. JT ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za Date: Mon Apr 1, 2013 1:33 am ((PDT)) Another option is to get a slotted cross slide for the Atlas, or modify a Myford one to fit. This then allows the use of the Myford range of fixed or swivel vertical slides, with additional accessories to mount a chuck, vice, vee block or angle plate. Works very nicely for model engineering type projects, but a separate mill is still the way to go for larger scale stuff. Regards, Carvel ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Apr 1, 2013 8:35 am ((PDT)) I think the attachment that JT Mentioned is this one at the link, below. They have PLANS and the CASTINGS that one can finish: http://statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-5.html $118.00 plus shipping Drawings only $13.00: Lots of other cool stuff for Atlas including an often discussed affordable Collet Chuck. Dan ------- Re: Milling attachment for TH42 Posted by: "Charles" xlch58x~xxswbell.net Date: Mon Apr 1, 2013 8:52 am ((PDT)) The simplest project is to adapt a machinist angle plate to fit the cross slide round "dovetail" and then make a round dovetail on the face of the angle plate to mount the compound slide there. Fixtures are then mounted to the compound slide and the compound slide provides the z axis. I had made drawings for a friend years ago; I will look for them. I have a milling attachment and more than one full size milling machine. The milling attachment is handy. It is a great fixture for mounting accessories on the lathe like a mica undercutter, internal grinder etc. They go for high prices since, like taper attachments, most lathes were sold without them, and those that did have them lost them. It's all about supply and demand. It doesn't matter the tool -- milling machine, lathe, grinder or sewing machine, vintage attachments almost always go more dearly than the machine itself. I helped someone close out an estate years ago of an old engine machinist. When I got to the shop I stopped at two metal barrels filled with material. They told me "no, we've already sorted that stuff and it is trash, back here is the stuff we need help identifying". I told them no, I would start with the barrels. The stuff I pulled out of that barrel brought over a grand on Ebay. I found my milling attachment when a neighbor who was a jeweler brought a polishing head by and wanted me to make a stand for it. The shaft for the buffing wheels was mounted in a 6 inch Atlas milling attachment that was bolted to a 1/2 foot by 2 foot aluminum plate with a motor mounted to the back. The milling attachment was used to adjust belt tightness. I told him I would make up a much better set up in exchange for the aluminum plate and milling attachment. I made an adapter to mount the 6 inch milling attachment on my ten inch lathe, but shortly afterward traded it on this forum to a guy that had a ten inch milling attachment and a 6 inch lathe. Charles ------- milling attachment 6", 10" or 12" [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "brianmillspaw" brianmillspawx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:33 pm ((PDT)) Hello. I recently bought a craftsman/atlas lathe. It's a 12" x 24" made in 1947 according to the head stock bearings. It came with a lot of attachments including the milling attachment. It's definitely an atlas milling attachment, but there is an adapter under it that I don't see in any other pictures or literature. It's very nicely done and about 1.5" tall. The milling attachment will not fit on the cross slide without the adapter as the recess in the bottom is too small. My question is, how can I tell which milling attachment I have? I'm thinking that it's for the 6" lathe and the PO made it work on the 12" lathe. Thanks for the help Brian ------- Re: milling attachment 6", 10" or 12" Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com Date: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:21 pm ((PDT)) Brian, Look on the side of the main upright casting (the part that normally fits on the spigot on the cross slide). It should have a number cast into it which is both the casting number and the finished part number. If the milling attachment was made by Atlas (regardless of whether it was sold by Atlas or Sears), the three choices are M6-501, 9-501 and 10-501. From your description, it is probably M6-501 which would ID it as being an M6-500 Milling Attachment for the 6". The one for the later 10" and 12" is the 500A and the upright part number would be 10-501. FWIW, over half of the 10"/12/index.html" milling attachments listed on eBay will be listed as Model 10-501. Just in case you try looking for the larger 500A. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: Milling setup for Atlas 10-inch. [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Lance Eggleston" gbofx~xxverizon.net crashbone256 Date: Thu Feb 5, 2015 5:40 pm ((PST)) Within all this discussion, has anyone addressed the relative disadvantages of milling on the lathe vs saving the money toward a proper mill? Recently a Burke 4 with overhead and power feed table was offered for $400. What's the cost of the Myford or RDG + extras? lance ------- Re: Milling setup for Atlas 10-inch. Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net jtiers Date: Thu Feb 5, 2015 6:25 pm ((PST)) Nobody has, but there is just no comparison. A real mill is 10x better than ANY adapter I have seen. Definitely better than any milling adapter I have used. I have mostly used Palmgren types, as that is what I have for the Logan. In general it is OK for keyway cutting, and minor milling, but not something you will want to use for larger tasks. For some larger tasks, a milling table is better. Logan sold one that I have a version of, and MLA (see below) has one for atlas (# A-11). That cuts out a lot of leverage and has a more stable base, since it replaces the entire crosslide assembly. But it is not useful for every task. There just is no real substitute for a mill, and as pointed out, the attachments can easily cost a substantial proportion of the cost of a mill. A loose mill is likely to still be far better than a tight milling adapter for a lightweight lathe. The Milling attachment from Metal Lathe Acessories (MLA), which is a "kit" you build, is one of the best, lots of mass, which most of the setups lack. Mass keeps things stable and cuts the vibration etc. The milling base, and "transfer block" are also good for larger items. Some of the milling related stuff they have is in these links. They are generally aimed at S-B and Atlas, with some Logan-capable stuff. http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-5.html http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/S-4382A.html http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/S-4382.html http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/U-12.html http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/A-11.html Jerry ------- From: wa5cabx~xxcs.com [atlas_craftsman] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Milling setup for Atlas 10-inch. No. Nor the disadvantages of buying a separate mill if you are strapped for space and funds. Adding a mill will require another 10 to 12 square feet of shop space. And if the mill itself only costs you $400 (which on average is highly unlikely),you will spend a total of probably $1000 or more before it is well enough tooled to be generally useful. Which doesn't of course mean that you shouldn't buy a mill if you have adequate space and funds. But it isn't usually our job to try to talk anyone out of doing something unless it is dangerous or can't produce decent results. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: Milling setup for Atlas 10-inch Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net jtiers Date: Thu Feb 5, 2015 10:29 pm ((PST)) While agreeing that it isn't our job to talk others out of their plans, there are some points to be made. 1) There is nothing at all wrong with suggesting an alternative, nor with disposing of bad arguments in favor of a bad option. 2) Anything that is said about the cost of tooling a mill SHOULD also apply to tooling a lathe to be used for milling. The costs to do the same job on either should be similar. The difference is that many jobs are either imposible on the lathe, or so arduous as to be effectively impossible. Therefore those jobs are never done, and so never tooled for, substantially reducing costs to tool the lathe. But it's really a false argument, since it compares different situations. 3) If you have a mill, it is perfectly possible to tool it for "general use" for a fraction of the $1000 cost you proposed. All you really need is some cutters and some form of vise. That gets you going, capable of basic milling work, at least as much as you can ever hope to do on the lathe. From that basic equipment you can make many other needed items, on an as-needed basis. I manufactured my own low-profile vise (and published it in an article for HSM), made a swivel base for another vise, manufactured fixtures and tooling for gear cutting, etc, etc. Of course you can buy as well. 4) Throwing out numbers for the cost of tooling a mill is very misleading. I have two mills, a Lewis and a Benchmaster. The total cost of purchase for BOTH mills, PLUS the total cost of tooling used on them, might possibly come up to the arbitrary $1000 cost you assigned to tooling alone. And that includes tooling and fixtures to cut both spur and bevel gears. It's merely a matter of how you buy, and how much you simply make instead of buying. Buying new is expensive. But it can be a good choice if you just want to get to work, and not make tooling. All in all, the cost of a mill plus basic tooling can be little more than the cost of a decent condition milling attachment plus basic tooling. The tooling should wash out, equal in either case, unless you load up the mill tooling budget with extra "luxury" items you would never buy to mill on a lathe. It's worth serious thought. And, much as I hate to say it, even a 3 in 1 type lathe/mill/drill is going to be more solid and effective than milling on any Atlas lathe. You'd do better to ditch the Atlas and buy a 3 in 1, if you really truly can't fit in a mill, but want an effective way to do milling work. Cost is another issue, but of course you do get the value of the Atlas back to spend on it. Jerry ------- Re: Milling setup for Atlas 10-inch Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za cwlathes Date: Thu Feb 5, 2015 11:30 pm ((PST)) I agree a separate Mill is a very desirable option, but the vertical attachment also comes in handy for other purposes -- like mounting a small tool post grinder for example. If Kurt is in the EU, and floor space is at a premium, then he may wish to look out for a Maximat V10-P or Super 11 with milling column fitted as another option. Although not constrained for space at the moment, I realise I will be one day and the V10-P will hopefully go with me when/if I have to move, although it will be sad day to part with my lifelong Atlas friend. Regards, Carvel ------- Re: Milling setup for Atlas 10-inch Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net jtiers Date: Fri Feb 6, 2015 6:44 pm ((PST)) The OP "reminded us" as folows: "3. Let me remind us that this discussion began with the qualification "medium-light milling operations..." " To which I will simply comment that "reality" has a way of dealing rather brutally with expectations. A) one always thinks initially that one can easily get by with a small subset of shop work... Usually this is because that limit either looks inexpensive, or looks physically small, and those are deemed important. The limits so easily accepted before having any equipment are usually reached or exceeded soon after the equipment with the limits is purchased. The OP has experience with this, having presumably decided a 618 "would be plenty big enough", but now he has a 10" which he shoehorned in somehow because he needed it after all. B) milling on the lathe is fine for "light" milling. When you include "medium", there is the potential for trouble, because that will exceed what is doable with the Atlas lathe, unless you are willing to risk having to start over because the weak setup let go, or otherwise allowed a part- scrapping (even machine-damaging) event. I was perfectly serious when I advised getting a 3 in 1 machine and selling the Atlas. It would provide more milling capability than the Atlas with milling attachment, and add drill press capability. The 3 in 1 are not known to be the best units in each of the 3 categories, but they will serve, they can be used. Many people do very good work with them. Limited space is a perfect example of why they exist in the first place. About workshop space, most of my machines are crammed into an area about 7 x 11 feet, along with workbench, 2 rollarounds, and storage. I know all about space issues. I have not and never will put the machines etc on wheels. It makes them less usable, in my estimation. As for the amount of money, I remind you that I bought TWO mills and tooled them, and I do not think I have spent even $1000 in total for the two mills plus tooling. I have arbors and spacers, dozens of plain and slabbing cutters, many gear cutters, an indexing head, three vises, one of them on a swivel base, a vertical head for the horizontal mill, collets, rotating (not rotary) table, auxiliary tables, tilt tables, etc. All for less than the $1000 including two mills. I didn't buy all of it at one time, of course, this was "accumulated".. That "$1000 with tooling" is simply not cut in stone. The more so because we are discussing replacing limited milling on the lathe, so a rotary table and indexer are extra-cost luxuries that shouldn't be considered for the mill when comparing costs. You can't use them when milling on the lathe, so don't count them in the comparison. "Tooling" for milling on the lathe is limited to a few end mills, really, maybe an end mill holder or a couple collets. That costs no more for a mill than for a lathe. Anything past that is adding extra capabilities, and so is not to be included in a tooling cost comparison. Jerry ------- From: Whitney WhitPUSMCx~xxaol.com [atlas_craftsman] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Milling setup for Atlas 10-inch I have a mill, but unlike the lathe where the two chucks I have (3 jaw and 4 jaw) have sufficed to hold everything I've needed to work on so far, the several vises I have have not been enough to hold stuff on the mill and I've been at a loss to get a good work holding set as the T slots on my mills table seem to be non standard. Thus I've not gotten anywhere near as far on my milling as I have with my lathe. Any suggestions on how to proceed? Is there a good "milling 101" website? How to chase down the right work holding kit for the mill? Whit ------- Re: Milling setup for Atlas 10-inch Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net jtiers Date: Fri Feb 6, 2015 6:57 pm ((PST)) What size are your t-slots? My approach was just to make t-nuts to fit the slots I have, and use a combination of all-thread sections and suitable length studs to hold work. My t-slots are the size that for some reason is the highest priced of all the "mill hold-down sets", by a considerable margin. By just making the tooling, I got exactly what I wanted. And, despite many solemnly informing me that the all-thread would let my work pop right out and get thrown in my face, that it would send me straight to the ER, nothing of the sort has happened. You just need to use good sense. I feel pretty sure you could hold some material well enough to make a couple t-nuts. With them, you hold more material and make enough more t-nuts to do what you need. Buy some good nuts for the top side, to hold the work, hardened nuts with washer bottoms. They are not expensive. Hold-down straps are not hard to make out of 5/16" or 3/8" CRS. Making your tooling is a good way to go, as it makes you realize your capabilities more forcefully than "checkbook machining". It's all perfectly good time cranking the dials, that makes for more experience. Buy at least one 'corncob" style roughing cutter for the mill. They are wonderful for all sorts of non-critical work, as well as "hogging out" material when you need to remove quite a bit. Much lower forces on the machine. Jerry ------- Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Kbeckmanx~xxwi.rr.com" kbeckman Date: Wed Sep 9, 2015 8:39 am ((PDT)) Does anyone use the Atlas 10-501/502 Milling attachement on their Atlas? I have had a small need for milling, and am considering purchasing one of these, but would like to hear from others that have tried it. I don't have the room, for a milling machine. Keith ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Wed Sep 9, 2015 9:53 am ((PDT)) Keith, First, the Atlas model number of the Milling Attachment that fits the 10F is just 500A (Model 500 is mounted with studs and fits the 9" and early 10"). 10-501 is the part number of the upright casting and 10-502 is the vise casting. However, most sellers don't understand that for whatever reason, Atlas never seems to have put the model number on anything that didn't have a nameplate. And I quit trying to educate them long ago. The 500A also fits the 12" and I have used it on my 3996 many times. It is rather limited to small parts and relatively light cuts but it does work. The vertical slide on the 500A is the same 10-503 cross slide used on your lathe. So anthing that will fit the cross slide pintle will also fit the 500A. Mainly the 7" square table off of the Universal Compound Vise. I have used that to hold BC-611 radio cases for slotting (the case is about 3"x3"x14"). To use it, you will also need a drawbar and 3MT cutter holder and spindle nose thread protector. You can get by with the Jacobs 56 Spindle Chuck since you will be taking relatively light cuts. But you don't want to try to use your regular 3-jaw chuck. Do not try to use a Jacobs chuck on an arbor unless the arbor is drilled for draw bar and you use a draw bar. If you do, sooner or later it will pull out and ruin the workpiece if nothing else. For the same reason, never try to use a cutter holder without a draw bar. For some reason, ones with only the tang are plentiful but ones made for drawbar are not. Atlas made a 945-2 cutter holder with 3MT taper drilled for draw bar. It fits 1/2: dia. shank cutters. And originally came with four reducing bushings. In short, it is usable if you just can't afford or don't have room for a proper vertical or horizontal mill. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: "Pete Mclaughlin" pete_mclaughlin_93555x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Sep 9, 2015 10:22 am ((PDT)) Hi Keith. I have the Atlas milling attachment that fits in place of the compound slide on my 10F lathe. I used it a couple of times and realized it was WAY to limited for the milling I wanted to do. I ended up getting a Rong Fu DM45 square column Mill/Drill which is just adequate for the milling I do. A Bridgeport would be the best but I don't have the room or money for that machine. Sincerely Pete McLaughlin ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: "Lance Eggleston" gbofx~xxverizon.net crashbone256 Date: Wed Sep 9, 2015 10:40 am ((PDT)) As an alternative, some people have found that using a T-slotted table on the cross slide post and then blocking and clamping the work to height gives a more solid setup than using the milling attachment. I have this one from Little Machine Shop bolted to an alum. base plate bored for the post and then drilled and threaded for the locking bolts. http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1664&cat egory= I used separate angled ends for the post wedges, so they will rotate to align correctly. Even tho more stable, light cuts are needed due to the flexibility of the carriage. Lock up all the gibs and carriage BEFORE you start the cut. lance ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: "brokenwrench1 ." brokenwrenchx~xxgmail.com brokewrench Date: Wed Sep 9, 2015 5:26 pm ((PDT)) I made a mill out of one of my craftsman lathes. I mounted an old table top drill press on the back side of the bed. I turned the drill press table upside down and bolted it under the middle of the bottom of the lathe bed. I positioned the quill of the drill press over the middle of the lathe bed. This is basically what I copied. I paid less for the used drill press than I would have paid for the atlas milling attachment. http://hackaday.com/2014/10/12/bench-top-drill-press-converted-to-mil ling-machine-mounted-to-lathe/ On my unit I removed the drill press base and cut a hole in the table the lathe is bolted to; the crank at the back of the table raises and lowers the drill press head. I can also tilt it 45 degrees each direction. I removed the compound feed assembly and made a table plate that the vice mounts to. I have a 90 degree angle plate also to bolt work to. I find this a good compromise. I can cut keyway slots both straight and woodruff half moon slots. ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: "Steve Metsch" stevemetschx~xxcox.net Date: Wed Sep 9, 2015 7:42 pm ((PDT)) I just sold mine because I bought a mill. But the 10-105 worked fine for what will fit in it. Take small bites and all will be well. It is just cantilevered up off the tenon for the compound slide. Steve ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za cwlathes Date: Wed Sep 9, 2015 11:12 pm ((PDT)) >> But you don't want to try to use your regular 3-jaw chuck. > OK, so elighten me.... Hi 'Kbeckman' (name ?) A 3 jaw chuck has a certain amount of runout, even up to 3 or 4 thou, so you be getting a very irregular cut particularly when removing small amounts of material. Also the intermittent load of the milling cutting operation will tend to make the cutter / end mill "wander" in or out of the chuck, no matter how tight you make it. Many collet chucks have a feature to screw the end mill into the base of the collet as well as clamping it for this purpose, so it is to a degree self tightening if it tries to come loose, (I have some interesting "art work" on the table of my milling machine executed by a previous owner with an end mill that wasn't properly mounted.) Regards, Carvel ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:13 am ((PDT)) Two [more] reasons: (1) Milling cutter shanks are normally hardened and ground. The jaws may slip as unless they are ground to the radius of the shank, they will have only line contact at best. With most 3-jaws the cutter shank will only be gripped in the tips of the jaws outside of the chuck body. If they have even a little bell mouthed you won't even have line contact. Although a Jacobs chuck isn't the best way to do it, at least part of the cutter shank will be up inside the chuck body. You should use either a collet (which should have area contact) or a Weldon style (set screw) cutter holder and a Weldon shank cutter (the shank has a flat ground on it). (2) The typical 3-jaw chuck will be much larger than the work piece and visibility will be poor. If you stick your face down close to where the action is, you may stick your head into the chuck. With a proper cutter holder or collet, you can more easily, comfortably and safely see what you are doing. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: zoyagenax~xxyahoo.com gennady_123 Date: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:36 am ((PDT)) Carvel, What does it mean "to screw the end mill into the base of the collet"? Threaded end mill shank? Thanks, Gennady ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za cwlathes Date: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:46 am ((PDT)) Hi Gennady, The best known example is probably the Clarkson Autolock collet chuck. The collets have a locating boss on one end with a threaded hole in the middle, and it fits in a mating slot in the chuck body. It only works properly with end mills etc which are threaded on the non-cutter end. The (say) end mill is threaded into the collet such that it protrudes through the hole thereby pushing the collet against the front tapered closing nut of the chuck. Have a look at the two attached images, and see if my explanation makes any sense. With the advent of CNC quick change tooling they have fallen into disfavour a little bit, with end mills etc which have a flat on the side of the shank that can be secured with a screw through the side wall of the holder or other similar fastener. Regards, Carvel 2 of 2 Photo(s) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas_craftsman/attachments/289017972 Clarkson collet.jpg autolock2_187.jpg ------- Re: Atlas 10-501/502 Milling Attachement Posted by: zoyagenax~xxyahoo.com gennady_123 Date: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:56 am ((PDT)) Carvel, Thanks for prompt explanation. So, as I suspected, there are threaded end mills (never saw one either in picture or as physical object). Gennady ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------