There are long running threads on alternative motors for Atlas (or for that matter for Taig, South Bend, etc. etc.) Hundreds of messages which are certainly not all going to be repeated here. One alternative popularly discussed in 2001 is one of the exercise treadmill motors. A controller for variable speed is needed to work with this type motor. A search of the Atlas and Taig and Sherline message groups will tell you, dozens of times over, near everything about treadmill motors. Such a motor is likely only practicable for the smallest lathes. The Atlas 618 is probably at the top size end of whether such a motor might serve you satisfactorily. The cheapest source is at a yard sale for the equipment. Stripping a treadmill will yield all sorts of additional good junk. The alternative is a new motor and controller; besides the often-hyped suppliers, you can get them as new parts locally through any store selling treadmills. Whenever I pass through the hardware store section where new heavy duty motors (similar to our machinery's originals) smile from the shelves, I relearn how to gasp with serious sticker shock. The day I am writing this particular paragraph (in Dec 2004), I went through the Habitat for Humanity outlet in our town and saw three used and very acceptable heavy duty motors with price tags of $10 Canadian. Some included heavy duty mounts that warranted the full asking price by themselves. So check the charity or thrift stores in your area. Yes, you will sometimes get a similar or better deal at a yard sale, but you may have to spend a lot of time and ga$oline. ADDITIONAL MOTOR-RELATED SAFETY NOTES: People have been able to successfully [sometimes] apply moderately low power single or double speed motors salvaged from appliances. Increasing motor speed beyond manufacturer supplied original units is NOT A GOOD IDEA for many practical and safety reasons. If Atlas or Clausing thought higher speed motors offered any safe advantage, they would have been original equipment. For power operations like threading on a lathe, most of the time we wish that the lowest speed available was a lot lower still. Appliance or other motors with open case structures are totally unacceptable from a safety standpoint for powering metalworking machines. Any motor will benefit from a chip shield to reduce the likelihood of dirt and swarf (metal chips) causing increased wear or an electrical hazard. All moving parts of the motor (and drive belts, pullies, and gears) must be covered with effective safety shields and belt guards as appropriate. If you think you can get away without such shields, you are fooling yourself. Even the most experienced machinist in the world is subject to distractions or moments of inattention that could be disastrous if safety devices were not both present and used! Do yourself a very big favour and get a qualified electrician to wire your motors, switches, and power supplies. It is also a good idea to have one visit your workshop and verify that your electrical system is adequate for your needs and is correctly, safely installed. Safety equipment and precautions are your best work partners. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2008 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:51:04 -0400 From: mark usik Subject: Re: Tread mill motor for lathe? [atlas_craftsman] > Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 4:50 PM > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Tread mill motor for lathe? > > I often read how many in this group use the tread mill motor > > available from the Surplus Center to power their lathe. I just > > called to order one and they are cleaned out and don't know when they > > might have them in stock again. Does anyone here have an extra tread > > mill motor they would like to sell or does anyone know of another > > source for these motors? Please e-mail me off group at > > extratecx~xxaol.com. Thank you, Regis Mario L Vitale wrote: >Regis, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you could wander around the neighborhood on trash day and look for discarded tread mills! (I got one this way, and was told by a guy who ran a motor repair shop that the moter is NOT what usually goes wrong with them...it's usually the controller. I have two Surplus center motors and one that I regularly abuse [powering a 24" swing wood turning lathe that I built] on occasion just quits working. I simply remove the circuit board from the heat sink extrusion and look for the bad solder joints... using a ten power glass helps. I resolder the bad [overheated, I suspect] joints and anfd it runs fine!?!? I realize that the inventory is pretty unpredictable so I'll try to find the name of an outfit in Canada that was selling them a few years ago. If I can find their address I'll let everyone know. Mario < Princess Auto in Canada sometimes has a few different treadmill motors in their surplus section, but I have not yet seen any with the speed controller. They have locations across Canada. Mail order from Winnipeg Manitoba (204) 669-4252 website: www.princessauto.com Mark www.princessauto.com ------- Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:48:57 -0500 From: "M K (Skip)Campbell Jr." Subject: Re: Tread mill motor for lathe? The surplus center is sold out of the controllers. They still have the motors. They also sell new KB motor controllers for 136.00. Not bad. You must order a plug-in resistor to match the motor horse power and a fuse at 2.50 each. These are available at local power train dealers like Motion Industries for less than 1.00 ea. The controllers however are much higher. Surplus Center also has a Minarik controller board for 56.95 that supplies up to 10 amps with a heat sink. That will run up to a 1 HP 90 DC motor. You have to make an enclosure and the pot and wiring. For my money, the KB unit complete and ready to hook up is worth the difference. Surplus Center, is as it's name implies, a seller of Surplus items, specifically industrial power transmission items. 1-800-488-3407. Skip Campbell ------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:55:51 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Reversible Motor [WHY SOMETIMES HELPFUL] If the lathe is basically designed to cut inch-system threads, the "threading dial" will only work on inch threading. So, if the lathe is set up to cut a metric thread, once you engage the half-nut, you cannot disengage it at the end of the cut. If you do, you loose the relation between the thread groove and the threading tool. You can't shift the lead screw in reverse either, for the same reason. To overcome these restrictions, you have to stop the spindle at the end of the cut. You can rotate the spindle backwards by hand to the beginning of the cut, but unless it is a very short thread... you can see the problem. If the lathe has a reverse switch, it will make backing out the tool much easier. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:08:01 -0500 From: "David Booth" Subject: Re: Reverseable Motor My Sears 109 is set up like that. The reverse is almost a necessity when cutting metric threads, as it's nearly impossible to get the cutter lined up for the second and subsequent passes any other way. (I tried using a carriage stop clamped to the ways, but found that each time the carriage came to rest against it, it moved just enough to mess up the workpiece. Then, again, I was trying to cut pretty small threads, so this might work for the larger sizes, like 0.5 mm per thread or greater.) My biggest concern about having the ability to reverse is I have to be careful not to turn the motor in reverse with a cutting tool engaged in the workpiece. Fortunately, that is only possible if the motor is stopped; otherwise, reversing the switch has no effect. ------- Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:36:58 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Reverseable Motor When cutting metric threads (or any very coarse, half thread/inch, etc. threads) it is usually necessary to run the lathe backwards between passes, as disengaging the halfnuts will lose the synchronization between leadscrew and the thread you are cutting. You can only disengage the halfnuts on threads that repeat every inch (assuming that the threading dial repeats every inch). Also, running the lathe in reverse is good when using a toolpost grinder on external work. To avoid unscrewing the chuck, you can start the motor with the belt loose, and then tighten the belt gradually. Jon ------- Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:35:29 EST From: PIHPGSx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Reverseable Motor/and reverse threading Hi. On the locking device. You get a threaded rod the full length of your head stock. The size ie/1/2-3/4 or whatever, is determined by the thru-hole in the head stock. Then, you measure the diameter of your chuck on the inside which would be on the tail stock side, but behind the jaw rail surface. Most chucks have at least 1/8 inch clearance or larger. Get or machine a heavy washer or round piece of stock that will just fit into this recess. Remove it from your chuck, center it and weld it to the end of your bolt stock. Then place this through the chuck, place a large washer on left side of the bolt and tighten it down. you then can place your lathe in reverse without unwinding the chuck. The only downside to this is that while using the locking divice, you cannot place anything through the head stock. I have been using this for years in conjuction with tool post grinders, polishing etc. No problem. Now, on to the threading from left to right w/cutting tool upside down. Set the work as you would any threading job. Place your 60 degree threading tool upside down in the tool holder. Place it dead center to the work at the cutting edge. Then, using your thread gauge, place it against the work and align the cutting tool so that the 60 degree angle fits perfectly. The cross carriage will remain at the required 29 degrees for your proper thread advance feeding. This is perfect for threading from a shoulder and up to your live/dead center and will prevent over runs and cutting where you do not want to cut. To do the above, the lathe must operate in reverse, ie chuck turns clockwise looking at it. Try it Chuck ------- Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:54:11 -0600 From: Rodent Subject: Motor Reversing Switch Anyone know sources for a decent manual motor control switch (forward/off /reverse) for a 1/3-1/2 horsepower single-phase 110 VAC motor? The one we had horded away had been badly abused and was not usable and now I need to find a replacement. I finally found one unit on Allen-Bradley's web site, but it looks rather expensive and I don't know who would carry one locally. Do electrical supply houses carry any of this stuff any more? ------- Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 21:24:19 -0600 From: Rodent Subject: Re: Motor Reversing Switch Original Message ----- > cheapest solution is an on off switch in a handybox (light switch) for on off , & a male lamp plug & wall receptacle for reverse .......just reverse the plug to change direction < Umm... I don't think reversing the power plug is gonna work on this motor. You have to switch terminals on one winding in the motor -- the power connection makes no difference. ------- Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 21:43:45 -0600 From: Rodent Subject: Re: Motor Reversing Switch Assuming David was correct in his understanding for the use of the AC plug, there are several problems with the low-budget approach: Using a connector for something it was not intended for is dangerous. I want the unit to be easy / safe others to use. I want to use a familiar method to reverse the motor. I want the installation to look professional. To this end, I did finally stumble across a reasonably priced switch in the Grainger catalog -- http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611674544 Unfortunately there does not appear to be an online schematic for the switch itself, so some reverse engineering (no pun intended) may be in order. ------- Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:08:35 -0500 From: David Beierl Subject: Re: Re: Motor Reversing Switch At 12/28/2002, Derf wrote: >. I think it can be done with a DPDT switch, or a DPDT and a SPST. SPST to control power to the device, DPDT wired X-fashion to swap the direction of the starting windings. Flipping the direction switch has no effect until you stop and re-start the motor with the other switch. Drum switch accomplishes the same thing with one handle, still have to wait in the middle position until the motor stops or nothing will change. david David Beierl -- Providence RI USA Atlas 618 6"/3" lathe ca. 1941 ------- Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 04:11:32 -0000 From: "esides " Subject: Re: Motor Reversing Switch "Derf wrote: > Reversing the plug orientation will not reverse the direction of an > AC motor. I think it can be done with a DPDT switch, or a DPDT and a > SPST. Or, is it DPDT off in the middle? I can't recall. It takes a double pole double throw switch for reversing and single pole single throw switch for start and stop. Ed ------- Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 04:26:22 -0000 From: "Derf " Subject: Re: Motor Reversing Switch Why dink? A new on-off-on DPDT switch may cost $5. A new drum switch would cost a little more. A couple of relays, two N/O pushbuttons,and a N/C pushbutton can make a nice forward-reverse-stop setup where you have to push stop before you can change direction. Add another N/C or two for emergency stops. Add a N/C micro switch on a clamp on the bed and you could have a carriage stop. You would still come in way under the price of a drum switch. Cheers, Derf ------- Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 08:22:32 -0600 From: "Richard Meredith" Subject: Re: Motor Reversing Switch If you have a W.W.Grainger branch locally, they offer a series of old fashion drum type reversing switches under their Dayton brand name. Grainger's smallest unit ( their stock number 2X440) is single phase rated 1.5 HP x~xx 115VAC, or 2HP x~xx 230 VAC. The current list price of this item is $32.75. I have used this switch as well as many other items of the Dayton brand, and have found them to all be of good quality. This is about as cheap as it gets for a new unit, though there may be something cheaper on the surplus or used market. Grainger has a web presence: (www.grainger.com) Good Luck, Rich ------- Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 08:38:16 -0600 From: "Richard Meredith" Subject: Re: Rodent..Re: Motor Reversing Switch Your right about Grainger sales over the net, but you can look up local sales outlets on their web site. The outlet stores will sell to anyone for cash. I use two of there drum switches every day, and have for years with no problem. I also have a Square D example, its a very good switch, but it does not work any better than the Dayton, and cost three times as much. Just a Personal Observation, Rich ------- Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 13:06:42 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Re: Motor Reversing Switch If you provide a plug (in this case a supposedly cheap version of a DPDT switch wired for reversing the two wires in relative to the two wires out) for the field windings of a universal motor, you can indeed setup a motor to be reversing with a plug. I will note that providing power to the armature without a field power will fry the motor in short order as there is no back-emf being generated to keep the armature current down to the usable level that will allow the motor to survive. I've seen all kinds of things in my life and using a plug for a switch is one sometimes seen. The only one that really bothered me is the guy that wired up a plug to the power and the socket was the load. That one is a sure means of getting yourself fried. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:48:46 -0500 From: "Bill Hardin" Subject: No Big Problem 3 Phase Original Message----- From: mertbaker [mailto:MertBakerx~xxprodigy.net] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 7:11 PM To: atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] First post new member Most of us don't have 3 ph. power. If you live where you can get it, such motors are perfectly useable. You can get gadgets to make single phase work 3 phase motors, but at the cost (almost) of another motor. Mert Nowadays, a variable frequency drive (VFD) will handle the problem. The VFD takes 220 single phase input, electronically does the conversion (simplified explanation) and output 220 3 phase. This weekend, I set one up for my 109. Used a 1/3HP GE 3 PHase 220 v motor. With a control on the front panel you can vary the speed from just a few rpm to more than the motor rating. You can also switch between forward and reverse, instant braking, more. I have not measured the output speeds yet. VFD is about the size of a toaster, sells for about $100 depending on horsepower rating. Mine is 1/2HP, cost $68 new. I need to learn a lot more, then will have a page on the website with sources and data. Bottom line, don't give up good machine because it is 3 phase. Bill Hardin www.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman & Atlas Lathe Support ------- Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:30:36 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: First post new member There are several good reasons to avoid 3 Phase motor lathe 1) check cost of getting 3 phase power extended to your shop 2) check cost of getting the various devices that may run 3 phase motor from single phase if you can not get 3 phase 3) Check cost of electrician who will set this up for you on hourly rate 4) Check cost of not getting a safe installation if you try this yourself If you can get 3 phase and if you are qualified to do electrical work this is a doable in my opinion. If you have any questions talk to an industrial electrician and your local utility. This is a project where it is easy to get in over your head first time out. Louis ------- Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 18:52:08 -0600 From: "Pete van der Lugt" Subject: Re: First post new member I think you all are making more out of the three phase option than need be. Once you have three phase, either by having it fed to your shop by the utility (probably an expensive or non existant option if it is a small personal shop) wiring for three phase is extremely simple. If you choose a converter, you have three options: 1. a rotary three phase converter, (a bit expensive because you are buying an extra motor) 2. a static phase converter (inexpensive option, but only gives you about 1/3 of the motors rated output) 3. a variable speed drive, this option takes single phase AC to DC and then back to AC. The good thing is that you retain the power with the added benefit of infinite speed adjustment. Obviously this is a plus for a lathe. These can be pricey, but your lathe is not going to have a large HP motor (I think you said 1.5 HP). Once you've decided on a conversion method, it's a matter of hooking up 4 wires. 3 wires will contain the load voltage, and one ground. Hook the motor up and if it rotates the wrong way switch any two wires and it will reverse the motors rotation. Yes, there are costs involved in any of these options, but if the lathe is purchased at a reasonable price, I think you'll be glad to have three phase power at your disposal. It can also be used for other machines you might purchase. I wouldn't hesitate, and I've chosed the VSD option, and have gotten plans to build the rotary phase converter option as well. Pete Lafayette, LA ------- Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:03:20 -0800 From: "Dee Schuyler" Subject: Re: No Big Problem 3 Phase Boy, Do I agree with Bill on this one, I have a South Bend that came with three phase , I bought a VFD and was up and running better than original! It is so nice to be able to speed up, or slow down the machine, and still have plenty of available power! I paid a little more for my unit but it was not much over $200 including shipping. It is a 2hp Teco model Purchased from Dealers Electric. Dee ------- Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:58:52 -0000 From: "a6fac" Subject: Speed control for Craftsman 109 For those who may be interested, I have switched my 109.20630 to a 220 volt, 3phase, 1/3hp motor and an Hitachi VFD controller. I can go down to single digit spindle RPM, up to full motor speed. I bought both pieces from eBay, the motor a new GE, the VFD such as shown and spec'ed in current auction number 2546432310. The VFD cost $68 at the time and the motor $25. I am greatly pleased by the operation now. Any questions, contact me. Bill Hardin ------- Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:51:57 -0800 From: Robert Bond Subject: Re: What size motor At 04:29 PM 12/26/03 -0600, dswrx~xxwebtv.net wrote: >Robert wrote; >"I have a 1/2 hp 180V DC motor with a Minarik motor controller on my 6" >Atlas. It works fine - I ended up with the 1/2 HP because it was what I >could find on ebay..." >Hi Robert, >Does Minarik have a web site that catalogs their motor controllers? I am >interested in one of these. Leo (pearland, tx) Looks like http://www.minarikcorp.com/ is the right place. Not all of the info appears to be online right now. Maybe after the Christmas weekend. I just checked - I have an MM23001C Minarik controller and a 1/2HP, 1750 RPM, 180V Leeson Permanent Magnet motor. I found all of it on ebay. It's mounted in a metal box I found at a local electronics store. Bob ------- Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:43:23 -0500 (EST) From: x xx Subject: Re: Need New Motor Barry wrote: >>I need a new motor for my Atlas 3996. My question is does it have to be the same size and speed or can I go to a bigger, faster motor? It has a 3/4 hp 1725rpm motor on it now and I was thinking of maybe a 1 hp motor. Is this possible or will a higher rpm motor change things? Thanks Barry << A bigger, faster motor does not lead to better, faster work on these little lathes. What it does lead to, is lack of control and damage to the lathe, because the ability of these little machines to absorb and use power is limited by their limberness and propensity to flex under load. A lot of people find that for decent thread cutting on these little hobby machines, they dispense with the motor all together and hand crank the machine with a shopbuilt crank inserted in the left hand end of the head stock. Most hobby work is done between 60 and 300 RPM spindle speed, so your 1/2 horse is geared down at least 1:6 and maybe as much as 1:30 with commensurate mechanical advantage. Sam ------- Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 22:35:18 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Re: Need New Motor Not an Atlas, but I have had a 1/3 (yes ONE THIRD) HP motor on the 10" Logan for its entire existence here. I have NEVER strained the motor, the flat belt has ALWAYS slipped before that. It is a rubber composition belt, so it isn't that easy to slip it. I can take off big bites of material, no problem. Jerrold ------- Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:01:30 -0500 (EST) From: x xx Subject: Re: Need New Motor OK, Chaps. Twas me started the argument - advisedly :-) Maybe not quite cricket, but our new friend has now been able to observe that we each have peculiar work we do each in our peculiar way, and a lathe is like a brush. It's a tool you have to learn to use, and to use to suit your work and your style. I think the consensus is that 3/4HP is plenty for one of these and the speed range afforded by the standard countershaft and bullgear setup will serve the vast majority of hobbyists' needs. And that's really what he was asking about. Cheers Sam ------- Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:41:00 -0800 From: Frank Perdicaro Subject: New motor tales When I put a new 1/2 hp motor on my lathe, one of the first things I did was to strip the teeth off the bull gear. Yikes, that was a good lesson. With a 3/4 hp motor you can certainly kill the 10" and 12" lathes in a second. ------- Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:52:43 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Digest Number 2148 In a message dated 12/5/2004, >can I go to a bigger, faster motor? >It has a 3/4 hp 1725rpm motor on it now No, do not use over the 1725 RPM as your pulleys are sized to give the proper speed with that motor. I used 1/3 HP on both my six and 12 inch Atlas lathes. (No discarded washing machine or dryer is safe in our local dump when I am motor searching.) John Meacham in the high desert of California 12 inch Atlas, Minimill, HF bandsaw, rusty file ------- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:44:54 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: wiring question [atlas618lathe group] > Does anyone have any ideas on how to figure out what is what > and get reversing to work? David, this is a good question and you've already got some good answers. I'd like to mention that this subject has come up several times before on our list, and that searching likely terms like: reversing, motor, switch, forward, reverse will get you a bunch of helpful past messages. A quick search I just did on "reversing" gave this concise result in archived message #820 by Carl back in January 2005 (partial quote): >> Primarily you will need 4 wires from the motor, 2 for run windings and 2 for start windings, then 2 wires from the line or wall plug. Simply what happens is the line is connected to the run windings in either position, then the start windings are reversed by the switch. << Sometimes the number of switch terminals can be reduced to five by combining common leads. I like this simpler answer to use in conjunction with the much more detailed instructions because it begins to explain the basic function of the motor reversing switch without getting into too many details that can be confusing to digest. For what it's worth, the special switches that do all the above functions can be quite expensive, but if one can tolerate a less slick solution, a pair of the more common and inexpensive types of ordinary toggle (or rocker) switches will work. In that scheme, one switch does the on-off part and one does the reversing part. One has to be very careful if using the two switch method that the reversing switch is never flipped while the on-off switch is in the ON position. Hank ------- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:18:11 -0000 From: "kendall" Subject: Re: wiring question Best bet is to look at the diagram, note which setup is used for the direction it is running now, It will give you a rough idea of what wires are what, and tracing the feed wires you should be able to determine which are the directionals. You at least have the diagram, last one I played with didn't have that and 5 wires (thinking 5th is a ground) to figure out, luckily I got it on the first try. Also, when I run into that problem I borrow some of my girlfriend's nail polish to mark them. If possible, try to get into the wires a little deeper, often you can pull them out a slight bit and see a 'tint' of what color they were, if not, scraping the insulation a bit will often do the same thing. ken ------- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:10:41 +0000 From: cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net Subject: Re: wiring question Check out http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/elec-mtr/elec-mtr.html and I believe your wiring questions will be answered. Charles ------- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:09:13 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Re: wiring question The following information, taken from the Metalwebnews version of the R. Lamparter "Home Shop Machining" article, contains a simple method to differentiate the motor start winding from the run winding: "According to an article in "Model Engineer" (Volume 145, Number 3620, November 1979, page 1262) the starting windings have a slightly higher resistance than the running windings. On my Brooks 1.5 hp motor, the starting windings have a resistance of 2.2 ohms and running windings have 1.2 ohms of resistance. Take the utmost care in making these measurements since a dirty contact will alter the measurement." Using that method, together with the basic configuration concept described in Carl's January post, should allow anyone with an unmarked motor to get reversing going with a suitable switch or switches. Hank ------- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:26:23 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Very hazardous advice in Lamparter article about motor wiring If I'm reading and understanding the following properly from the Lamparter article, it should have never made it to print. This is very bad advice!!!!! Please ***NEVER*** use the same type of socket (and plug) for 220 as for 110! The proper SAFE fittings are readily available at hardware stores, home improvement superstores, etc. Portable 110 loads should never be able to fit in 220 sockets, and 220 loads should never be able to fit into 110 sockets. A mismatch will lead to quick damage, overheating, and maybe a fire if the fuse or circuit breaker doesn't trip. R. Lamparter quoted from HSM article: "I used the same outlet as I was using for 110v, but painted a sign on the outlet that labeled it as being 220v. I doubt this outlet meets the electrical code since the special receptacles for 220v physically prevent a 110v appliance from being plugged in; however, I feel this practice is acceptable in one's home shop." There may be a few more mistakes in the article, but a quick reading showed this to be probably the only safety related error, but it's a BIGGIE. Hank ------- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:34:01 -0400 From: bepurr Subject: Re: Very hazardous advice in Lamparter article about motor wiring Hank: The whole group owes you a debt of gratitude for pointing out the safety error in the article. There is more than a safety issue here. If there is a fire on the premises, and even though not caused by the wiring discrepancy, your fire insurance could very well be null and void. If someone is injured your liability could be eye-popping. The cost of the proper plug and receptacle are nickel and dime items compared to cost of the consequences. Something to think about. Thanks again, Bryan P. (bepurr) ------- NOTE TO FILE: And mistakes like the above are the reason for strongly (!) suggesting that you have a qualified electrician wire your motors and switches and verify all the electrical components and wiring in your workshop. Wondering if you know how to do something electrical? Don't do it yourself. Use the skills and knowledge of a qualified electrician. ------- From: "jerdal" jerdalx~xxbrick.net Date: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:41pm(PDT) Subject: Re: re-power options for 12x36 > Has anyone converted a 10/12 inch class of a machine with a DC > motor/controller setup, similar to what the 9x20 guys are doing (Steve > Bedair, for instance)? I have been frustrated with getting a _straight_ > large pulley to remove the wobble in my countershaft. After spending > almost $100 to buy one that is no better than what I have, I have been > contemplating replacing it with a single groove pulley from McMaster. I > don't have the small dual motor pulley anyway so I only have 4 speeds > now. If I spent $100 or so on a DC setup, I could get my high speeds > also and probably get a smoother running setup than I have now (and > cheaper than the ebay russian roulette game). I don't agree that a DC motor "destroys major capability", that's wildly extreme. It can be dealt with. The VFD will be NO BETTER, however, unless you modify the range. BOTH will NOT produce decent power at lower motor speeds. Of course, NEITHER does the belt setup. The belts need to run at a higher speed also, especially flat belts, since they are "pull limited" (flat belts) to about 33 lb per inch width, so 1 HP at 1000 FPM, or 1000 rpm at 4" diameter. V belts are better. With the belt, the DC, OR the VFD, you will NEED at least back gears. I assume you do have that. Essentially, you can get no better than about a 2:1 range from teh VFD before you get into a range where you are probably just under-powered, starting from full speed. Same with the DC. With some setups, such as the Monarch 10EE, you can get a substantially larger range from DC than VFD, but that is with a field-weakening controller, and a motor optimized for middle speed range. The field weakening takes care of the high range at constant HP, the armature control takes care of the lower middle range, or low speed at low power (constant torque), and back gears finish the low range at near full power. Because the motor is optimized for (base speed is in) the middle speed range, it hasn't so far to slow for reasonable lower speeds. You won't have that, so you will be stuck in teh constant torque (variable HP) range for ANY speed reductions used standardly. The one way the VFD can help is if you re-set the range. Set the motor up with a pulley ratio in the middle range, about half or 6/10 RPM. Rely on increased frequency over 60 Hz for the high range, and that way the low range will be covered with reasonable HP. High range will be OK, falling torque, but near-constant HP due to speed. Of course, back gear for low speed power. You will emulate the 10EE DC drive system to some degree, but using an AC motor and VFD. Pulleys: Pulleys are not hard to modify. I have taken common cheap cast hardware store pulleys and cleaned them up for near-perfect smooth operation. Get one with right size, and a slightly smaller bore than needed (1/2 vs 5/8, etc). Put on the faceplate, and center up. Now, bore the pulley to the correct shaft size. Without moving it, clean up the belt groove until you have bright metal all around. The bore and belt groove will be essentially perfectly concentric and run true. You will need to hold it by the spokes, or possibly drill holes in it if it is solid web. Maybe use a chuck if there is enough decent hub to grab, but I find that weak and too movable under cutting forces. You may have to re-cut the keyway, which you can do with a boring bar, and a bit ground to keyway width. Mount and use the carriage as a shaper, moving it back and forth to cut the keyway. Feed in with crossfeed until it's correct. JT ------- Recommended set-up- Variable speed motor/control-618 Atlas [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Charles & Dorothy Brumbelow" cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 11:43 am (PDT) >> I would like to set up my 618 with a variable speed 1/4 >> or 1/3 or1/2 HP motor and speed control. > Well, I don't have one, but I believe you need to start with > a good DC motor. A number of these have been set up with the surplus tread mill motors available from http://www.surpluscenter.com Controller will likely cost as much as the motor and possibly more. Charles ------- Recommended set-up- Variable speed motor/control-618 ... Posted by: "tooljunkie3j" jetobeyx~xxmsn.com Date: Sat Aug 5, 2006 6:11 am (PDT) > I've got to say I'm a bit curious as to why people think the > variable speed motor is much of an advantage. [snip] John Martin Reply to John: For me it is the fact that I don't have a particularly good AC motor. And, I wanted to avoid the bulk of the countershaft assembly on the bench top. My lathe bench is 24" x 48"-2 1/4 inches thick glued and screwed pattern grade baltic birch 3/4" ply. There is an oak apron rabbeted into the bottom of the ply 1" deep and exposing 5". In the corners of the apron is a 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 oak leg bolted to the apron (total 4). I wanted to keep the area behind the lathe as uncluttered as possible for future taper attachment and perhaps a raised section of drawers for my precision measuring tools and other tooling. Thus, one smallish motor and compact control. Regards, JET ------- Re: Recommended set-up- Variable speed motor/control-618 ... Posted by: "Al" aludtkex~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Aug 4, 2006 1:39 pm (PDT) > You've already got 4-step pulleys on the jackshaft to spindle > and 2-step pulleys on the motor to jackshaft. Then you've > got back gear vs. direct drive. A total of 16 speeds, spread > over a pretty wide range. OK, some might overlap. But why > would you want any more? That's what I've been wondering too. Perhaps the thing to gain is to extend the range of speeds on either end. But the 618 turns pretty fast already on the top end. If one wanted to turn some soft materials where a higher tool to object speed was needed the much cheaper way to go is to do as some of us have done by setting up a dremmel tool to serve as the cutting tool. An easy way to do this is to fashion a tool holder to hold the flex shaft of the dremmel tool in the tool post of the 618. But if you really wanted the lathe itself to turn faster you could just put another set of pulleys on the motor shaft and the countershaft. But to make the 618 turn faster than it already does I think would be asking for trouble. Now on the other end of the scale - rigging the 618 to turn slower - is no problem. Just put the set of pulleys on the motor shaft and the countershaft. I did this so I now have a three step setup and it works fine. With the 1725 RPM motor I now have my slowest spindle speed of approximately 20 3/4 RPM. I wanted to turn some rigid plastic foam and slowing the 618 to have better control of the feed rate in conjunction with the dremmel setup works just fine. I had some problems initially with the extra pulley on the motor shaft causing the most distant of the three to loosen but the guys here on this forum solved that for me by recommending thread lock. And thanks again for that good advice. But maybe I'm missing something; maybe there is an application for which an exact spindle speed between the available steps is necessary. I'm curious to what that may be though. Would be interesting if someone would tell us. Al ------- Re: Recommended set-up- Variable speed motor/control-618 ... Posted by: "kendall" merc2dogsx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sat Aug 5, 2006 6:14 am (PDT) > I'm curious to what that may be though. > Would be interesting if someone would tell us. Al It's more convenience than anything I think, I used to go from aluminum to iron to brass to steel etc all in the same sitting, and it would have been great to be able to just adjust a knob for speed changes. ken ------- Re: Recommended set-up- Variable speed motor/control-618 ... Posted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Aug 5, 2006 8:01 am (PDT) For me, it would simply be the convenience of not moving belts around. My gears are very well lubricated, and the belt does not stay clean, so I'm always getting grease on my hands for every belt change, which happens a lot. I have a 2hp treadmill motor waiting installation... I really need to get on it. Bruno ------- Re: Recommended set-up- Variable speed motor/control-618 Atlas Posted by: "tooljunkie3j" jetobeyx~xxmsn.com Date: Tue Aug 8, 2006 9:11 am (PDT) Thanks to all who had input to my original question. As it turns out, the lead to "richardsfoundry" was the winner. He has a setup, that while not cheap, is perfect. High torque DC motor, enough HP and a compact size with reversing motor and switch. I have invested quite a bit in upgrading my 618, with all steel gears except for two (64 on banjo/tumbler and spindle drive gear) which are left for weak link purposes. The TIR on the rebuilt spindle is down to .00015 cold. With all that I have put into it, to me, the $290 power source is worth the investment. My 618 will see lots of wood turning and the near infinite speed control will be more than handy. By the way, the skeptics were just as helpful, opening my mind to disadvantages also. Regards, Mike Tobey ------- Re: Recommended set-up- Variable speed motor/control-618 Atlas Posted by: "Hank" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:33 pm (PDT) > As it turns out, the lead to "richardsfoundry" was the winner. He has a > setup, that while not cheap,is perfect. High torque DC motor, enough > HP and a compact size with reversing motor and switch. "richardsfoundry" appears to be an Ebay seller ID. Mike, can you confirm that's the link you're talking about. Hank ------- Re: Recommended set-up- Variable speed motor/control-618 Atlas Posted by: "J E TOBEY" jetobeyx~xxmsn.com Date: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:27 am (PDT) Yes, he is on ebay. The link to him was put in someone's reply to me, or was pointed out to me in a reply. I found him by dumb luck looking for controllers. I did not find him with a seller search, because I do not know how to do that. In any event, he understood my needs and gave sound advice. He responded to my naïve questions without making me feel like an idiot. What he offers that is not so easily found is high torque with a decent use cycle and all pre-wired-"plug and play." Could explain AC input and its relationship to transformed or rectified DC output, heat dissipation and non-linear ratio of input to output. Next, I'll be talking to a fellow I was directed to on a wood turner's forum that sells speed controls and a tach that converts to SFM for mills and lathes and combos. J.E. Tobey ------- Re: A ? About motor size on a 12 x 36 Craftsman lathe Posted by: "John Williams" hogleg_willyx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:52 am (PDT) Paul K. wrote: >I am considering putting a new drive motor on my 12 x 36 lathe. I would >like some advise on size. I have the opportunity to get a very good >price on a 2HP 3 Phase motor. Is the 2 HP motor big enough for the lathe? 1/2 horse is ideal. I have a 1/2 horse 3 phase on mine, so that I could use a VFD to get variable speed. Original size was 1/2 horse 1 phase... 2hp is overkill, IMO. BTW, my 1/2 horse 3 phase is a Baldor that I got on ebay for $50.00. They regularly can be had for that price range... John ------- Re: A ? About motor size on a 12 x 36 Craftsman lathe Posted by: "JAMES BLACKETT" jamesrblackettx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:24 pm (PDT) As long as you don't want to do heavy work, a smaller motor is no problem - maybe you have to take longer to do an operation, but does that matter? Also, should something go wrong (I know it never happens to me !!!) there is less possibility of damage to the machine, material and operator and that must be a good thing. regards James ------- Motor for ATLAS 10" Lathe [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "sr71_bb2001" Ronald_Rubenx~xxHotmail.com Date: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:37 am ((PDT)) I am a newbie and I am moving my ATLAS TH42 10" to an original stand I just finished restoring, it includes a motor mount hanging down from the rear. The old motor I had mounted to a homemade mount on another bench and there is now way the motor will align with the pulley. What kind of motor should I buy to match the original mount?? Specifically what frame number, 1/2 horsepower ok?, the pulley is 5/8" bore and has a 1/8" keyway. Should I go with a reversing motor?? Any suggestions on a source(??), I have a Graingers nearby. I know questions, questions... Thanks for any assistance Ron ------- Motor for ATLAS 10" Lathe Posted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT)) I am not sure, but I think present day motors are quite a bit smaller in physical size than when our "gems" were originally manufactured. On my 12 inch I have always had to make up some kind of adaptor plate to get everything lined up. (But, then I am a big fan of dumpster diving, and usually have reclaimed washing machine motors etc on my tools.) As insurance for the lathe I have always used nominal 1/3 HP motors for my lathe (rather stall the motor than break something irreplaceable.) I would not recommend a reversible motor for any lathe that uses a threaded chuck, face plate etc then the running of the lathe in reverse would tend to loosen whatever is screwed onto the spindle. Some machinists use the lathe in reverse for cut off work with the tool mounted in back of the spindle, but not advised with a threaded spindle again. I suppose in cutting some left hand threads running the lathe in reverse (to reverse the lead screw) would help too. Sorry I can't give you a current NEMA mount number for what the original lathe had for a motor. John Meacham from the high deserts of Calif 12 inch Atlas lathe, mini mill, HF band saw and a rusty file. ------- Motor for ATLAS 10" Lathe Posted by: "sr71_bb2001" Ronald_Rubenx~xxHotmail.com Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:28 pm ((PDT)) Many thanks that makes a lot of sense... I will heed it.... I appreciate the response... Take Care Ron ------- Re: Motor for ATLAS 10" Lathe Posted by: "Rexarino" rexarinox~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:16 am ((PDT)) I respectfully disagree. I have a reversing 3/4 hp motor on a 12 inch Atlas/Craftsman lathe, that was purchased for that machine when new. I have spun many items in reverse (3 jaw, 4 jaw, and faceplate work) by carefully engaging the belts after starting the motor. The only time I ever spun a chuck loose was an accidental start in reverse at a belt- engaged high speed - and I was able to stop the lathe before the chuck came off even then. Of course, I've only used the lathe since 1975, so maybe I haven't got enough experience to say. Morse collets are perfectly safe to run in either direction, and are a dream for left or right hand threading of rod. If I were to choose a motor today, I would get either a good surplus reversible variable speed dc motor; or; a 3 phase ac motor and VFD. The advantages of variable speed are wonderful, especially when you want something of large diameter to spin "just a bit slower than Holy Cow", or you want to speed up as you get closer to the center of the piece you are facing, or you want to slow down for that larger diameter, or... A recent discussion here seems to imply that most people own or favor a 1/2 hp motor, and that was claimed to be the recommendation for the 12" lathe. But even if you power the lathe with a 1/4 hp motor, in back gear, at the lowest speed, the available torque at the headstock can still "break" most anything that might go snap on the lathe, so I don't think under powering the lathe gives any real safety. Learning the feel of the lathe is the only truly safe way to operate it. I wouldn't give up my 3/4 hp for anything except a variable speed of the equivalent torque, and I've never broken anything but cutting tools and drill bits. I occasionally take a hogging cut, especially when I'm working stainless or cast iron, because stainless work hardens, and you often need to dig in and get under the "skin" of cast iron. I even occasionally make a mistake, and run into the chuck, or bump the tailstock under power, or lots of other oop'ses, but really, the Atlas is a marvelous tool, and they aren't very fragile. I never liked old VW's, because they felt underpowered - maybe I'm a torque freak? You will note that I'm not a purist, although I applaud those who are pleased by owning and/or restoring a good quality tool such as the Atlas. My lathe is a tool to me, not a shrine, but it would be very easy for me to fall in love with such a beauty as I own, and I fully understand those that believe that original is the only way. In the end, you should get the best motor you can afford. If you bought a 1 hp motor, you could leave the belts a bit looser and still have the "stall" safety that an underpowered motor might provide. If you buy a continuous duty enclosed motor, you'll never have metal chips inside the motor shell, and no explosion hazard when you decide to spray paint the latest project with lacquer. If you get a variable speed motor, you might forget how to change belts between pulley sizes (Oh, Woe is me, weeping crocodile tears). Now please excuse me while I step away from the monitor and don a flameproof suit! rexarino ------- Wiring... was Re: Serial Number - Date database posted in files [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Glenn" glennx~xxentropian.com Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 3:58 am ((PDT)) "Anthony Hovis" wrote: > I have a question for someone out there. Could you tell me if these are > supposed to be grounded or not. I changed the wiring and just put in > what I had on hand but it's just 2-conductor wire so if this should be > grounded, I'll have to pull it out or just add a grounding wire. Yes, when re-wiring you should add a ground wire; To provide its measure of safety, the ground wire should be attached to the motor chassis, metal electrical box at the switch, body of the machine, and to a grounded plug and outlet. By grounding everything metal, you provide a return path should the either of the current carrying conductors come loose or come in contact with anything metal at any point along the way. Basically alleviates the risk of electrocution if wiring comes loose or insulator fails which can happen in old motors and old wiring. ------- Re: To ground or not to ground.... THAT is the question. Posted by: "Richard Schaal" rschaal_95135x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:09 am ((PDT)) I'd go ahead and ground the beast...Unless you are running it on a GFI. Mine is both grounded and on a GFI. The electrical code here calls for GFI protection most all outlets in the garage where my lathe is. With all the expertise in this group making chips, there seems to be less when it comes to wiring. Take a step toward safety! Richard ------- Re: Serial Number - Date database posted in files Posted by: "uhmgawa" uhmgawax~xxthird-harmonic.com Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:57 am ((PDT)) As others have suggested you'd be best to ground all discrete parts of the lathe to which electrical components mount. Don't rely on electrical conduction by bearings or other moving joints to accomplish this task. Eg: if there is a switch in the head, ground the head at the switch in addition to grounding the motor frame. Similarly if you have an outboard reversing switch. Personally while grounding is important it is arguably more important to get that 50+ year old wiring the hell out of there. Insulation decomposition along with generally less stringent safety practices make that wiring a candidate for the trash can. Moreover any "enhancements" made by previous owners enjoying less than UL accepted methods really needs to go. I only wish I took a picture of the NEC haunted house I had on my hands before cleaning up that mess. Truly impressive complete with exposed and taped joints singing in the breeze a few inches behind the head and a motor starter winding of an otherwise non-reversible motor mined out of it headed to an unmounted reversing switch via ungrounded conduit. uhmgawa ------- Re: To ground or not to ground.... THAT is the question. Posted by: "Glenn" glennx~xxentropian.com Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:07 pm ((PDT)) I wouldn't assume a GFCI would completely protect you if used on an ungrounded circuit. GFCIs trip on an imbalance in the current in the two legs (hot & common, black & white) IIRC something like 2 mA or 20mA. You could still be shocked and I believe could still be electrocuted if you are completing either of the legs and are yourself, isolated from ground or any other path for the current to take - an unlikely condition to be sure but not impossible. It doesn't sound like much current, but under the right (or rather wrong!) circumstances, could still cause harm especially around machinery. If a ground is there, loose wires or failed insulation "leaks" will likely flow via the ground wire and trip the GFCI With no ground, it would flow through you to ground, quickly tripping the GFCI, but possibly not before causing you to make an involutary movement - a risk around machines. Ground it AND use GFCIs if they are called for by your local code. Better safe than sorry. ------- Re: To ground or not to ground.... THAT is the question. Posted by: "jtiggr" jtiggr713x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:53 pm ((PDT)) Always ground, certainly the motor. And if you have them: the light, the lube oil pump/motor, adjustable speed drive. If the frame/shell of any of the above also are in contact with the metal parts of the lathe (unless heavily painted), then the lathe is mostly grounded too (but then I don't really like a daisy-chain ground system). I'm running the original 1950's Atlas 120V 1Phase motor. One of the first things done when cleaning the whole mess was to remove the old, worn and bad athletic-taped parts. Wiring to the motor was replaced with new cable/wire (the usual black stuff (type SO or SJ) you see in the hardware store, 3 conductor (black-white-green) and 12 gauge). The black & whites went to the original terminal posts, and the green wire received a crimp-on ring lug which was quickly secured to the inside of the cast terminal box with a machine screw (making sure that there was intimate and assured bonding). For $30, I bought a nifty industrial type start-stop switch box from Sears Parts. It was meant for a large, top-of-the-line table saw, but it has a great on button, and a very large red paddle for OFF. Easy to find, no accuracy needed: give it a slap with any body part or accurately thrown chunk of iron, and it turns off instantly. Another recommendation: you can't have enough power outlets in the shop. Run the lathe (and other power tools) off of a separate breaker from your shop lights, and have at least two shop lights on separate breakers. Seems obvious when mentioned, but when the light went out, and the table saw was still runing, it soon made a believer out of me. Good luck. jtiggr ------- Re: To ground or not to ground.... THAT is the question. Posted by: "Anthony Hovis" anthonyhovisx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 11:14 pm ((PDT)) Many thanks to everyone for all the very informative responses. By the sounds of things I guess I had better get some other wire in it that has a ground. Another reason I didn't (other than I didn't have any) was because the wiring I took out didn't have the ground either but it certainly didn't look to be a "factory" wiring job. I really can't say if GFI's are code here or not but I guess I better add one of those to and make sure none of the "juice" is running through any bearings or shafts and such. When I cleaned up the lathe I had considered taking the end's off of the motor and cleaning that to but I decided not to, not yet anyway as it is very dirty and dusty inside. Hopefully before the motor starts overheating from not having enough airflow I'll get it cleaned. "Jtigger" mentioned outlets; I have the lathe sitting right next to the breaker box so it's on its own outlet. Having one those large switches sounds like a good idea, it would make it quicker to turn off if something ever did happen. Thanks again for all great info and good ideas. I guess have some more wiring to do. Ton ------- SAFETY NOTE TO FILE: Re: To ground or not to ground.... THAT is the question. As always, if you have any doubt as to the proper technique required to safely wire your lathe or other machine or appliance (or if there is any question as to your competence or ability in this matter), please spend the money to have a professional licenced electrician do the work for you. While he is at your shop, also have him inspect the rest of the shop wiring and bring everything safely up to code. Those relatively few dollars are a wise investment in your continued health and safety. ------- motor power for Atlas Craftsman 12" [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "ahz" ahzx~xxinsightbb.com Date: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:20 pm ((PDT)) What's an appropriate horsepower motor for the Atlas Craftsman 12"? My old 1.5 hp Baldor has dead bearings. ------- Re: motor power for Atlas Craftsman 12" Posted by: "LouD31M066x~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:27 pm ((PDT)) Bearings (if not plain bearing) are replaceable. 1.5 hp is twice as much as largest motor offered by Atlas. My 12 inch has 1/3 hp (and it had dry bearings which I replaced with new...no big deal). Louis ------- Re: motor power for Atlas Craftsman 12" Posted by: "TCHarex~xxaol.com" TCHarex~xxaol.com Date: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:32 pm ((PDT)) I would not uprate above what the original lathe motor was rated for. I think that the original designers would not specify a motor that was smaller than what was needed. It would cost more in the long run, because it would make them less competitive, but the bigger issue is that if you ever crash it you will probably do more damage to parts that have been out of production for many years. Tim Allen from the TV Show "Tooltime" would say, MORE POWER!!, but I don't think that is right in this case. I am a member of this group, not because I own one, but because this group has more members than my brand's group. so I learn more here. (I own a Logan 10 inch.) Maybe this remark does not apply to Sears/Atlas, but my old Logan 10 inch is quite happy with 1/3 HP and 1750 RPM. Note, I said I would not "uprate", but I did not say I would not "upgrade". This might be a good chance to get a variable speed. Especially if you tell the wife (and perhaps yourself) that you really don't have any choice as the old motor is shot. :D Regards Tom ------- Re: motor power for Atlas Craftsman 12" Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" Date: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:02 pm ((PDT)) I also have a Logan with 1/3 HP.... and it is enough, although the Logan is built heavier than the Atlas. I TOTALLY agree with the "upgrade" suggestion. The most meaningful and useful upgrade you can do is to go 3 phase. You get 3 phase either with a VFD (electronic box) or a Rotary Phase Converter (basically a larger motor with some added parts), if you don't have direct access to it. The benefits in smoother power and freedom from chatter are immense. I realize you are maybe new to machine work. If so, you will soon learn why the above is important, and may wish you had done it, although it may seem like overkill now. JT ------- Lathe Wiring (Craftsman model 12L SN 10127440 [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "dreamsseven2003" dreamsseven2003x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:29 am ((PDT)) I'm a new member and hope there is someone out there who can help me. I bought the lathe and to be able for two of us to pick it up and put it in my van, we took off all the parts which we could to reduce weight. Unfortunately, we disconnected the wiring!! Now I cannot figure out which wires go where. Placing the wires where I thought they should go, the lathe rotated in reverse but did nothing in the forward position. If I switched the orange stripe and the green stripe the motor runs in the forward direction. (Rotating the 115 volt plug in the power recepticle also changes the motor direction which it should not do. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for this lathe or if someone lives around the middle east coast of Florida, I would be happy to drive over and look at their lathe and wiring if they would allow that. It seems as if there is probably something already on the Group information but I can not seem to find it. Thanks so very much, Dick Hahn ------- Re: Lathe Wiring (Craftsman model 12L SN 10127440 Posted by: "Rexarino" rexarinox~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:04 pm ((PDT)) Try this link. You may have to join the group, or I can send the files via email if you have broadband, or are patient. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_pics/files/Motor_and_Rev ersing_Switch_info/ Question for the group in general, should I move these files from the a_c_pics group, to this group? rexarino ------- Re: Lathe Wiring (Craftsman model 12L SN 10127440 Posted by: "Jim Ash" ashcanx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:47 am ((PDT)) Nice timing. I just went through the exact same drill, except mine has been apart for 3 years. I started putting it back together a couple weeks ago, got it running and finally cut some metal on Saturday. Having lived this dream before, I normally try to take notes on disassembly (including wiring), but didn't for this one. I just spent 20 minutes rooting through my shop, desk, and probable places looking for the charts I just sketched up to get me through it, but didn't find them. I normally save this stuff in a file, but I haven't quite finished with the lathe setup yet, so stuff is still everywhere. My motor is an original Atlas. My switch has six terminals and was manufactured by Furnas. A lot of times, especially for convertible motors, there's a hook-up chart on the motor. There wasn't this time. My normal approach with unknown switches and motors is to bust out my multimeter and see what's connected to what, which is what I did two weeks ago. Sometimes I take switches and motors apart to make sense of things and to see if anything bad lurks inside (worn or broken parts, bug parts, etc), which I also did this time. What threw me for a loop was that the neutral line from the plug was cut even with the insulation, while all the other wires still had bare metal sticking out. The only things that make any sense are that #1 - Whoever wired it up before me ran the motor from the hot lead through the ground lead (the neutral was never used), and #2 - nothing was ever grounded. I probably wouldn't have taken it all apart if I knew those things out of the gate. Towards the end of my voyage of discovery, I found the motor hookup chart, on the inside of the terminal cover box lid on the motor. If I'd seen this first it would have saved me a lot of time. It had two charts; one for 110v and the other for 220v. I mapped the colors of the motor leads to the colors of the wires going to the switch box (four wires) then closed it back up. Mine is wired for 110v (at least for now). Per the chart in 110v configuration, two of these wires get connected to the hot and neutral to run (and both disconnected to stop). The other two (I'll arbitrarily call them #A and #B), get connected to the hot (#A) and neutral (#B) to run forward, or switched (#B-hot, #A-neutral) for reverse, and both disconnected to stop. For switches with more than a couple terminals like this, I draw up a 'who's connected to whom' matrix chart with a box for each of the possibilities, then fill it in by probing with my meter. Combining the chart from above with the wiring chart from the motor (and the new color-codes of the wires running to the switch), it became obvious how things needed to be hooked up. Sorry if this is a bit general. If you'd like specific assistance, let me know and we'll go through it. If you do, yank the terminal cover off your motor first and see if the chart is there. Jim Ash -------