This file contains discussions and tips on the particular need to clean tools and machinery used in home workshops. The information here is likely applicable to tools and machinery used in other crafts or hobbies. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO SAFETY WHILE CLEANING! Safety requirements for the particular cleaning product may require added special precautions not mentioned here. Be very careful and consult the cleaning product manufacturer or government occupational health and safety sources if you have any questions or doubts before proceeding! In every case wear suitable protective gloves, clothes, masks, and eye protection; take any further safety precautions suggested on the product label or material safety data sheet (available from the manufacturer). Unplug any machine to be cleaned. Ensure there are no other electrical or open-flame or heat or spark hazards in the area that might be exposed to the cleaning material. Remove or completely cover and seal the electric motor and wiring and switches before cleaning; do not get any cleaning material onto or into these electrical or electronic parts. After cleaning make sure any electrical device or attachment is completely dry inside and out before plugging it in or turning it on. Usually the best place for cleaning is outside, well away from buildings and wind and flame or any source of ignition. For removing grease from old machines, various products like carb cleaners and oven cleaners have been suggested in these newsgroups. The latter two may hurt paint, so test on a small area first. Testing first on a small area is a good idea in any case. Ignition cleaners and wd-40 won't normally damage paint. Never use gasoline or similar products!!! Some commercial cleaning products are flammable; there are much safer alternatives! THERE ARE COMMERCIAL PROPRIETARY CLEANERS THAT MAY BE BETTER AND SAFER THAN HOME RECIPES. WATER-BASED CLEANERS MAY WORK VERY WELL; PARTS NEED TO BE DRIED QUICKLY AND RE-LUBED ON BARE METAL AREAS TO PREVENT INSTA-RUST. CHOOSE PRODUCTS WISELY AND WORK EXTREMELY CAREFULLY, FOLLOWING ALL SAFETY PRECAUTIONS. NOTE TO FILE: There is another very useful general file called Finish for Tools that mentions machine cleaning/polishing/repainting/etc. and it may help answer some of your cleaning/finishing questions. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2008 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. =========================================================================== From: Gregory Gagarin Date: Sun Dec 5, 1999 1:52pm Subject: Shop Tip Just a few ideas: 1. If you don't already have one, get a pistol cleaning kit from a gun shop -- the kind with a T-handle and a 8-10" rod and screw-on cleaning tips. The .45 cal cotton tips/swabs works great for cleaning/oiling the Sherline spindle bore and MT-1 taper. Between the .22, .32, .38 & .45 cal swabs and brass brushes you have good cleaners for virtually all of the holes in the mill, lathe and accessories. You can also use these to push the gun cleaning pads through the bores. The brass brush works quite well for removing burs from a setscrew hole (or any cross bored hole) into a main bore. Ron L. mentioned to me the use of shotgun cleaning pads which work great as above. 2. At the grocery or durg store you can buy small wire/nylon twist brushes used for cleaning between teeth at gums. These are like little bottle brushes and come in various sizes and shapes (straight cylinders or tapered cylinders). These are cheap and work very well for cleaning small holes AND screw threads (push it in and screw it out). They can also be bent to reach hard to get-to places. 3. If you have a mill MT-1 boring bar holder, it works great as a variable off-set Dial Test Indicator holder for the mill or lathe. I use mine regularly to sweep in adjustable tailstock accessories and tools in them -- can get a lot closer than visual aligning of centers, can make the adjustment near where the tailstock/tool will be in use and can check TIR for pointing. If it's got to be good, I adjust my drills at the point rather than before or after the chuck. Also, don't forget to consider using the same accessory on the lathe for actual boring -- material on cross slide. It's a 2-dimensional setup but works great for making custom lathe toolholders since the hole height is automatically set for center cutting holes (boring bar holders, etc.). 4. Ron L. sent me a suggestion that I use paper towels on my tools in the shop. At first I thought this was a strange suggestion -- being a know-it-all newbie with bundles of "shop rags" and using paper towels like everyone for hands and mess clean-up. I tried it! Thanks Ron! Since you start with a clean one every time (I give each a spray shot of oil) and then discard after use, I have found that I simply relocate a lot fewer chips and grime than I did with rags. He also suggested using them in twists like 1. above -- works quite well. I still use my rags but the combination is an improvement. 5. Does everyone know and use the Bedside Reader Tip on using cigarette paper for work location? If a thou is good enough, I will use a cigarette paper every time -- it's especially good for Z location where you don't want to scar the work. 6. Does everyone know how to use a DTI for mill centering between two oposite edges without having to know/calculate out backlash? Enough -- got to get back to work. Have fun, Greg --------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:11:49 -0000 From: "Russ Kepler" Subject: Re: RE: Old Oil >If mineral spirits are not doing the job, just ramp up to a "hotter" >solvent. Aerosol carb cleaner will usually do the trick, but can >affect paint. If everything is apart, soak the bearings and spindles >in lacquer thinner. This should take everything off. The best solvent I ever found for removing old oil (and I include WD-40, Stoddards, acetone, lacquer thinner, etc.) is a fairly new cleaner called "Oil Eaters". It's an enzyme based cleaner that really does a job on old oil and crap, I got mine at one of those warehouse type places. The only downside is that it doesn't work at all if the temperature is less than room temp - in my 50 degF shop I have to take it inside or wait for summer. This stuff is cool - spray it on and watch the varnish wash down the side in a yellow stream. I usually spray with Starret M1 afterwards as I don't think that there's any remaining oil after this cleaner. Good thing is that it appears completely compatable with paint. -- Russ ----------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:32:30 -0800 (PST) From: model-engineerx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Removing OLD oil WD-40 works surprisingly well... dissolves the varnish and dried oil so it can just be wiped off. Safe for paint! When I disassembled my QC-54, I used Simple Green and a toothbrush, rinsing, drying and oiling the parts afterward. This, too worked great! -Jon --------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:41:25 -0600 From: "J Tiers" Subject: Re: Removing OLD oil I use no solvents but the purple cleaner sold at Lowes and Home Depot etc is great. Dissolves any kind of greasy stuff, and works well on most gums. Cheaper than solvents, and nicer to work with IMHO Best is you can stand next to the furnace while you work, it's NOT flammable. It is related to the oven cleaner Marty mentioned, actually, since it is diluted lye and some soapy stuff. I highly recommend it. if you are worried about paint, don't leave it on as long. For parts you can soak, you may want to oil them afterwards, as they will be so clean they may rust while they dry. Jerry ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:42:30 -0600 From: Jim Irwin Subject: Re: Atlas Horizontal Mill cleaning [NOTE: ATLAS HORIZ MILL FOUND IN BARN COVERED WITH GUNK & LIGHT RUST] JC, Here's what I would do FYI & FWIW I recommend not starting this process unless you have time to completely tear-down and clean all critical parts the same day. 1. Set it out in the run til it gets warm thru and thru, or' till eleven-ish. 2. Spray it down real good and wet with cheap engine block cleaner. Let it sit in the sun another hour. 3. Car wash it or other high pressure spray. (Use medium stiff wire brushes (hand held) to loosen any still-stuck grunge.) See NOTE below. 4. Allow to drain thoroughly, turning and tilting to get as much as possible out of nooks and crannies. 5. Douse thoroughly with a water displacing lubricant, like LPS 1 or 2 (WD-40 is OK for this, and is a fair cleaner, but is a poor water displacer. 6. Allow to drain thoroughly, turning and tilting to get as much as possible out of nooks and crannies. 7. Blow off with compressed air using nozzle extensions, etc to get into them nooks and crannies. 8. Begin teardown and detail cleaning immediately. NOTE: This process may compromise any ball or roller bearings, so be prepared to repack or replace them, or back off the high pressure spray in the vicinity of the bearings. Best regards, Jim Irwin ------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 04:57:12 -0000 From: "gtrz240" Subject: Here is the best,easy,cheap way to clean up a Lathe Hey people! I have done this twice so I can speak from " be there done that". I have tried all of the other chemical cleaners i.e. brake cleaner thinners, you name it. I purchased three lathe one was kind of clean and two had at least 25 years of crud and black brown ugly stuff that was tuff as nails! Here is how to do it. Take most of the lathe apart i.e. tool post, cross slide, apron, lead screw, tail stock but leave the head stock in place with the gears and spindle. Remove the gears that drive the lead screw and the motor. Now take $5.95 and go to HomeDepot and purchase 1 gallon of Zep Citrus cleaner ( don't buy any other cleaner ) and a lite pair of rubber gloves. ( also purchasing flowers for the wife can hurt) return home. Take the lathe outside to an area where you can hose it off later. Pour the Zep cleaner in a spray bottle and spray it like you hate it. Let the Zep work for 5 min. or longer. Keep it wet and spray ever 5 min. Then take a stiff brush and do a little scrubbing. Spray and clean the head stock gears and every little spot (bearings too). Grab the hose or pressure washer ( low setting about 1200psi.) and spray it all clean. Repeat the spray and clean treatment if needed. You won't believe how good this stuff works. Once clean, grab the air hose and blow the lathe dry. Spray air in all the small cracks and holes. Spray "water displacement on the 40th try" ( WD40 ) and soak the lathe, then spray the WD40 into all the cracks, seams, and holes( oil cups too). Take the clean lathe inside and fill all the bearing oil cups with oil (the wicks should have been removed before cleaning) Use the air gun and pump the oil through the bearings, do this ten time and spin the spindle 180 degrees each time.This will flush all the crud built up in the bearing area. For the next couple of days fill the bearing cups up with oil and spin the spindle. The cleaning of the other part is pretty much the same way. I have also left any bad looking parts in a plastic tub for a couple of day and once rinsed with hot water are ready to paint. The small parts that will fit in the kitchen sink ( this is where the flowers come in handy) I rinse with very hot water. The part will have no grease film left that will affect your new paint. The secret is that the crud on your lathe is part dirt, grease, oil and solvents. Zep Citrus clean them all!!!! The Zep also help clean the lite rust off. The Zep will take the paint off if left on the parts for a day or longer. Hope this helps someone. Dan in Portland Oregon ----------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 14:27:10 -0500 From: Guy Fuller Subject: Re: Here is the best,easy,cheap way to clean up a Lathe Not trying to offend anyone, but I would not use water or any water based cleaner on any of my metal working machines. If there is a drop of water in a bearing or somewhere else that you cannot get to with the air hose then it will mix ( yes oil and water will mix if stirred enough) and will cause the bearrings (if the water happens to be in the bearrings) to fail causing damage to any shafts or other components that depends on the bearings. You will not be able to get all the water out of every nook and cranny. Stay with the petroleum based cleaners. Guy ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:43:38 -0500 From: "Koepke, Kevin" Subject: RE: Here is the best,easy,cheap way to clean up a Lathe It all depends on where you live, as to what works best. Since I discovered they work, I have used water based detergents on all my machines, though I dismantle the machines completely (I think this is the key). I have cleaned bearings with it as well. Since Atlas didn't use sealed bearings with plastic seals, the use of an oven to dry them out will work. I let the oven come up to 225 degrees with the pieces in it (so the pieces are also near this temperature) then turn off an let cool. I only use the oven on bearings. Most other items dry good with paper towels. Once painted, I apply a thin coat of oil to all bare metal surfaces, prior to assembly. I live south of Houston, and it's usually about 90% humidity (here lately it's been a wonderful 60%). The use of compressed air would allow moisture to get into the cracks and crannies. I have to drain the compressor tank after each day of use. Driers don't help much. Kevin -------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 03:45:42 -0000 From: "Bill Collins " Subject: Re: Quick Change Toolposts - Why? The machine shop instructor at our trade school expelled two students for using compressed air to remove chips.I use a pocket pen magnet and an old Tristar vacuum cleaner to remove the swarf.This old vacuum work great for that. Not using compressed air for chip removal should be a point made in Shop Safety. GB. Bill C. ---------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:33:13 -0500 From: Rodent Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? ----- Original Message ----- > Big tub of kerosene works wonders on the old bikes - would guess it would > do the same for any workshop kit > >I have some machinery parts that have decades of shop grime on them > >and need cleaning up. I have a sandblast cabinet. I know I don't want > >to use sand on machined surfaces.Rather than the expense of buying glass > >beads, I wonder if I can just buy some big boxes of baking soda and > >use that? I read about how it is a good blast medium for machined > >surfaces, but I wonder if you need some special type? > >Anybody have any experience with this? ...or mineral spirits. I bought a cheap parts washer years ago from Harbor Freight which holds about 2 gallons of solvent. Its cleaned a butt-load of bike parts, machine parts, etc... All the spooge collects in the bottom and there is a small filter on the pump for the smaller pieces. Sandblasting or glass-beading anything with bearing surfaces means you have to thoroughly wash out every nook and cranny or take a chance on getting blast media somewhere it does not belong. If you just want to clean off the gunk, use solvent and a brush. If you need to restore alloy, remove alot of rust or take off paint (and chemical stripper won't work), blasting may be the only option. -------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:38:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Smith Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? Lynn, I have used baking soda for blasting. I purchased a blasting gun called "SpeedBlaster" which has a container attached to it to hold your blasting media. I just attached it to an air hose at work (about 90-100psi) and started blasting. The snowmobile engine parts I was blasting looked like new when I finished. I ran the air hose outside to do the blasting since my employers blasting cabinet was full of silica sand. Even though I blasted outdoors on a slightly windy day, I still looked like a snowman after I had finished. I used regular Arm and Hammer baking soda bought in a grocery store... Don --------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:58:43 -0700 From: "9mmuzi" <9mmuzix~xxadelphia.net> Subject: RE: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? I just finished cleaning up an old Atlas, I brushed on multiple coats of GUNK, let it sit awhile in the sun, then I brushed on one more coat and sprayed it with a hard stream of water from my garden hose. Used shop air to dry it off, then drenched it with WD-40 and blew it off. Finally, I oiled everything, looks beautiful. Any ball bearings should be repacked with grease unless they are sealed bearings. --------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:08:51 -0400 From: "Richard Farris" Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? > Big tub of kerosene works wonders on the old bikes - would guess it would > do the same for any workshop kit Brian Yup, That's what I use - Big ol washtub with about 2 to 3 gal of kerosene and a number of different size scrub brushes. Then when I got the part clean, I do it again with fresh Kerosene. Let the kerosene settle and decant into a container that I can seal till next time. Dick ---------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 16:06:03 -0400 From: mark Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery storebaking soda? We build custom blast cabinets and sell some of the import ones. Soda is not going to be a simple option for you due to equipment requirements. For REALLY gentle blasting like removing plastic moulding flash, paint from chrome or glass, crud from electrical insulators etc there is crushed walnut shell and corn cob available. Best bet would be to spring for a bag of fine glass bead (NOT CRUSHED GLASS) and use the lowest air pressure that will carry the bead thru your system. Watch for any frosting of blasted surfaces....you are destroying it if it is supposed to be a sliding surface. --------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 16:50:36 -0400 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? Hi Lynn, The "baking soda" blast media is much more crystalline than the grocery store stuff. Better to dunk the parts in a cheap large pot of kerosene and have at it with a toilet brush if it's just surface grunge you want to clean off. Dunking in hot TSP solution will strip most paints, and get you down to clean, ready to prime metal quickly. Cheers, Stan --------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:51:56 EDT From: CaptonZapx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? In a message dated 4/8/03 12:14:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Jeepx~xxmountain.net writes: > as I understand it. it is not that easy.. requires special equipment and a > LOT of air... something on the order of 100 cfm. I wanted to use soda as > well... better surface and a lot less cleanup when used outside... > My .02 archie =) =) =) Well, if you have already purchased the soda, put half a cup per gallon of water in a plastic container big enough to hold the part. Get a piece of metal, (not aluminum) with about the same surface area as the part, and put it on one side of the container. Do not let it touch the part. Hook the positive lead of a battery charger to the piece, and the negative lead to the plate. Plug in the charger. Put it in six volt mode if you have it. Come back in a few hours, and check your progress. Rinse well when done. CZ ------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:05:41 -0400 From: "John Glowacki" Subject: Re: FW: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store bakin g soda? This is called electrolosis. Here is a link to a website that explains it well. http://www.angelfire.com/tx/hotube/electro.html This works well if you have an old engine that is stuck tight with rust John Glowacki ------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:12:00 EDT From: JMartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: die-cast pot-metal parts effected by lye? << My atlas mill and shaper have several die cast "pot metal" parts (like casing for the power feed on the mill, the cheesy gears in the mill's feed, the advance casing on the shaper, etc). Knowing that lye eats up aluminum, I wonder if it will eat up this metal? I don't know what is in the alloy of this pot metal. Oven cleaner is lye based, by the way. That sounds like a simple trick- the black bag oven. Thanks. Lynn Kasdorf >> Zinc, tin and some other metals are affected by alkali solutions just as aluminum is. Reactions may not be as fast, or they may be faster - I can't remember. Keep the lye away. John Martin ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:00:11 -0700 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Solvents [FOR CLEANING] http://howstuffworks.lycoszone.com/question105.htm is a website that will explain a fair bit of the various hydrocarbons. It is an interesting review of hydrocarbons. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay bobmayx~xxnethere.com NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net --------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:05:17 -0000 From: "lkasdorf" Subject: my 12x36 was underwater... My shop was flooded on Sep 23 (6' of muddy water) and I'm slowly piecing everything back together. My old 12x36 craftsman 101.07403 was totally submerged. Since it was pretty oily (I've not had a chance yet to tear it down, clena and rebuild), I'm hoping that the water didn't do much harm. Right after the flood, I took it outside and doused and squrted diesel fuel everywhere I could. My question is- do you think I'll be able to just oil everything real well and go for it? My biggest concern is how well the timken spindle bearings are sealed and whether mud got in there. AT some point I'll a complete teardown and rebuild...I just don't have the time for that right now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:15:17 -0500 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... I thought from the model # it would have Babbit bearings. Those are easy to open up and inspect. If they are, indeed, Timken bearings, I think you are going to end up replacing them. There is going to be mud in them, and that will wreck the bearing surfaces. Well, you can try it out. After the bearings start making grinding noises, then you'll know for sure. It isn't hard to pick the bearing covers off with a pocket knife so you can get a good look at them. There may also be needle roller bearings in the countershaft to attend to. The motor is likely kaput. Jon -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:16:00 -0400 From: "Dick Farris" Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... Get a couple of spray cans of electrical contact cleaner and blow them in the air vent slots on the motor before you give up on it. After flushing it good - let it dry out for a goodly period of time ( couple of hours ) - then give the bearings a couple of drops of oil each ( if there are places to oil ), don't overdo the oiling. couple of drops for each bearing. Spin the shaft by hand and if it feels ok then give it some juice. Make sure you've got a functioning shutoff switch and the circuit is fused and/or on a breaker. Hope this helps, Dick ---------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:00:18 -0400 (EDT) From: x xx Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... IMO you need to find the time to tear down, wipe and oil up. Save the assembly for later if you must, but you've gotta get the crud out, particularly if it's salty crud. The bearings are trivial since they can be changed, but get cleaned up under the TS, the saddle and, I think you'd better, also under the HS since capillary action will draw the water in and once rust sets in it generates it own oxygen to continue its work. Nother approach if you're short of time is dismantle, chuck it all in a bucket of methyl alky. Since alky and water are perfectly miscible, the alky will absorb the water. When that's been done, transfer it all to a bucket of mineral spirits till you have time to do a good job. Sam ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:30 EDT From: WaynesTrnsx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... Hi Ike, I can't speak for the lathe but if your motor was running ok before it went diving you can easily put it back into operation if you got oil into it so nothing rusted. DO NOT TURN IT AT ALL!! Take the screws out of the end housings of the motor. if the shafts have any rust,crud etc take something to them to get down to a nice clean smooth surface them film some oil on them and pull the motor ends off of the shafts. You've already removed the pulley, right!? If your motor uses a centrifical switch to cut out it's start winding after reaching operating speed you will also need to remove a couple of wires to be able to remove one of the ends. You can wash everthing out with some kind of soap and water, I use simple green. Rinse well and dry it absolutely dry!! If your motor had sleeve bearings they are in the ends , if they are roller they will most likely stay on the shafts. Either way get the surfaces clean. Roller bearings can be serviced by popping the side seals off,flushing ALL the old grease away and repacking the bearing. A heat gun or really good hair dryer can help turn the old grease/ wax combo back to a thinner consistancey so you can get rid of it. Pay attention to all insulating material in the motor so you don't diminish it's effectiveness during your cleaning. Best of luck to you, Wayne ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:22:26 -0000 From: "tailshaft56" Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... If it had been my lathe I probably would haved hosed it out good with fresh water before the diesel dousing to try and flush out the mud. You could flush till the water comes out clear. Blow out water with compressed air and the douse with diesel and apply liberal amounts of water. We used palin old water to clean electronic gear when i was in the navy. Just need to be sure it's apart enough to dry it out good. At any rate you might be able to save the moter by at least taking it apart and cleaning it good. Good luck with it. Let us know how you make out on it. Dennis ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:01:43 -0500 From: "Randy Pedersen" Subject: Re: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... I spent a few years working as the service manager in a marine dealership. When we received a call of a sunken boat I would tell the customer to leave it under the water until I could get there to retrieve it and get it running. Bearings will start to rust the minute air can get to them after being submerged. Best advise is to bite the bullet and tear it down and clean & oil it as soon as possible waiting will only cost you more money in the long run. Randy Pedersen Salina, Ks Atlas 618 South Bend 1946 9" A, 1938 9" CEnco 1105 Mill Drill rpedersen1x~xxcox.net ------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:46:33 -0000 From: "carbure2003" Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... In 1998 my Craftsman lathe was damaged by a burst water pipe located above the lathe. I discovered the fact 12 hours after the incident. As water had time to go everywhere before I found it, the bed became very corroded. (it was not submerged) Within the next day, I stripped out the lathe piece by piece and it is amazing how water got everywhere by capillary action. My bed needed to be surface ground. I strongly recommend to strip out the lathe all in pieces and clean all corrosion immediately. Use the part manual; it is a very good help for this purpose. Take the time, even if you don't have any. It is worth it. If you need further help, reach me at guycadx~xxnetzero.net G. Cadrin Gatineau, Quebec, Canada --------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 02:41:10 -0000 From: "Clifton Schlicher" Subject: White lead removal I just bought an Atlas 10F in pretty good shape for $200. I am in the process of cleaning it up prior to installation. I ran the tailstock out all the way, until it disengaged from the screw. It was pretty stiff. The ram won't budge now with the screw disengaged.The problem seems to be the white lead used to lubricate the ram. Over years of storage the lead has turned to rock. Does anyone know what solvent is best to soften/remove the lead? If I can soften the lead, I should be able to push the ram back in enought to re-engage the screw and the work it back and forth with the wheel till it loosens enough to remove it. I have chipped enough out of the oil dropper hole to let solvent sit in it for a day/days. Until I get a response, I will probably try mineral spirits. Thanks. Clif ------- Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:22:37 -0800 From: Jay Greer Subject: Re: White lead removal Clif, Most likely the problem is not with the white lead but with the linseed oil vehicle. Try a good brand of paint remover like Star 10 , which is used for stripping aircraft paint. Best of luck, Jay Greer ------- Subject: Re: anvil cleanup [oldtools lst] From: T&J Holloway Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:02:50 -0700 On Tuesday, September 14, 2004, Bill Kasper wrote: > ok, now that i have my first anvil, how do i clean it up? > My machinist friend, dave, suggested a flap-wheel on his angle > grinder. that sounded a bit, shall we say, harsh. i was thinking the > razor blade/220 grit/320 grit/mineral spirits/wax approach might do > better, since there isn't any real flattening to be done, and no chips > out of the edges. > I was going to take a brass hand brush to the cast iron, using simple > green, just to get the gunk off. then dry it in the oven, and apply > more wax. another alternative is to sandblast the whole thing. or to > leave it alone. > It's to sit on my benchtop and use for all the metalworking i need for > the time being, so i want it clean and unrusty. Bill-- I'll start with the usual disclaimer mantra: It's your tool, and you can do what you want with it. That said, the angle grinder sounds, as you suggest, "harsh" as well as unnecessary overkill. Ditto sandblasting. OTOH, the "razor blade/220 grit/320 grit/mineral spirits/wax" process seems to be, um, common saw dit? too froo-froo for an anvil. If you was me, I would slop some paint thinner (or mineral spirits, if you want to pay more money for basically the same solvent) on a rag or one of those tough blue paper towels, and rub all over your anvil. If there is really grunge to remove, you could do this with a wire brush, and then wipe with a rag. A brass brush is likely to leave that goldish chatoyance that I understand is one of the attractions of certain Alaska-made holdfasts, but a made-in-China painter's wire brush from the dollar store will do the trick. Keep in mind, this thing is practically indestructable, and has no "finish" to preserve. Once it's "clean enough," a wipe-down with BLO, thinned or straight, will keep the rust from coming back, or you can wax it if you want to use up some wax. Or spray lightly with Boshield if you already have it around and then wipe down lightly, but don't go out and spend the $ for Boshield just for this--a can of it would run maybe half what you paid for the anvil. ["BLO" = Boiled Linseed Oil, which normally has nothing to do with "boiling" but rather the addition of chemical dryers to harden quicker.] If you want to keep it on your bench, you might make a simple shallow "tray" with a scrap of laminated sheet goods (plywood) with a rudimentary border of cleats from the scrap box to keep it from sliding around. That will protect the benchtop, but not create the sponginess of a rubber pad base. If you're going to use it for serious pounding, you want the top to be about as high as to reach your knuckles when standing (maybe 29"?), so you might think about a dedicated stand of some sort. The traditional is a round from a tree trunk of the appropriate height, but you could make something from some two-by stock tied together with allthread. HTH Tom Holloway ------- Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:18:05 -0000 From: "buzzard_bluff" Subject: Degreasing gears Dunno if this will help anyone or not but here goes---- As a tinkerer and casual collector of old model airplane engines one of the most frustrating aspects of the hobby is removing baked-on castor oil (used for engine lube as a component of the fuel) that is old enough to draw a pension in some cases. Few things will touch it without melting the base metal. But last year, on a net forum, I read that soaking castor coated engines or parts in an old crock-pot of hot anti-freeze was the hot set-up to remove the grunge and leave the engine looking like it was fresh from the original box. Desperate, I tried it. It works!!! When I got my 10100 a few years ago it came with the seemingly obligatory stack of gears on a long bolt that appeared to have lain in a pile of swarf mixed with old grease since new. Last week I finally got around to attacking them to try to unearth bare metal. Being lazy at the most basic level I broke out the engine cleaning crock-pot, poured in a batch of cheap anti-freeze (it seems to work better than the 'expensive spread') and left a 55 tooth Zamak gear that started life with 56 in it x~xx 20 hours to see if anti-freeze preferred Zamak to grease. What emerged was a sparkling gear with one tooth still missing. So alright already! It won't replace broken teeth. Big deal. But it DOES clean the grunge off. I immersed the good gears overnight, scrubbed them with an old toothbrush the next day to be sure nothing remained and they're now simmering in the crock-pot again, this time in a hot water/ dishwashing liquid bath in case anti-freeze isn't a good idea in the long run. Tomorrow I'll pour off the detergent mix and soak them an additional 24 hours in a straight hot-water bath to remove any remaining chemical impregnation. Several comments and clarifications are in order then I need some advice. 1. Do NOT, under ANY circumstance, use the crock-pot belonging to SWMBO and try to sneak it back into the house to be returned to kitchen duties. Anti- freeze is terminally toxic to life if ingested. Instead use your head a bit. Buy SWMBO a shiny, new, improved model and take the old one in trade. Look at the advantages---you get a cleaning system as well as some good eating. Women just HAVE to try out new cooking gear. You'll eat well, gain points toward a 'kitchen pass' for some needed piece or part AND get your own cleaning device for the shop. 2. If that doesn't seem an attractive deal then you can get a small version suitable for most small parts at your ubiquitous Wal-mart for under $10. 3. Dispose of the used anti-freeze where animals, domestic & wild, cannot get to it. It is sweet and will be lapped up eagerly by your mother-in-law's poodle. Uh-oh. I didn't say that! ;o) 4. Don't blame me if you have no more sense than to pay any attention to advice coming from a raw newbie who has no concept of what he is doing. If your Zamak gears melt they are still YOUR Zamack gears and I don't wanta hear about it. Now for the advice bit: I have been told (but I haven't tried it) that model engines (cast iron, cast alum. & steel with occasional examples including zinc alloys) are said to store well indefinately in a glass jar of kerosene. Anyone know if that would also apply to Zamak gears??? If not then how do you store your gears so that they remain clean, lubricated and dirt-free? ------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:33:08 -0000 From: "buzzard_bluff" Subject: Re: Degreasing gears Just checked the gears that were soaking in the dishwashing/water mix. NOT a good idea!! They were starting to exude the white powder-like substance indicative of decaying Zamak. They've now been rinsed extremely well. Three have been scrubbed and polished with a tiny rotary SS brush in a Dremel and the remaining gears are in a clean water bath. In the morning I will re- evaluate both the polished gears and thosesoaked overnight to see if there are any notable changes and wing it from there. DON'T try this at home--or in the shop--or anywhere else. Darn! I SEEMED like a good idea at the time. Wonder if it was the soap? Gears that melt seem like a poor concept.;o( ------- Re: Attn Jerry Kieffer - Where do you start? (Quality Glass Bead & Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:50 am ((PST)) In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "kuhncw" wrote: > Hello Jerry, I enjoyed your post on fabricating small parts to scale. > Would you please elaborate a bit on what you feel is a "QUALITY Bead > Blaster with QUALITY glass bead." Thanks. Chuck Chuck: First let me say that a Bead Blasting cabnet is something that is constantly used once you own one. It is also something you will never give up once used. While there are many types of blasting material the most common is Sand and Glass bead. Sand is harsh and not desirable for small parts. It is best used on large items where part damage is less of a problem. Glass bead is gentle and controlable for the task`s needed and ideal for small parts. Less expensive glass bead from places like Harbor Freight seem to have as much sand as glass bead. They do not feed as well or produce the desired results on small parts. You need to try various brands to determine what works for you, however USA made material from reputable dealers has always worked well and been worth the few extra dollars. The most important part of a Cabinet system itsself is the pick up tube and the gun. The cheap imports do not consistently pick up material and do not give consistent even pressure or pattern of the blasting material. To make a long story short I would suggest name brand USA made Automotive systems with ALL USA MADE components. While there are several brands I personally prefer "TP Tools and Equipment" products only because the have such a wide variety products and accessories. Other are just as good. I say USA made componets because I have a USA made "Cyclone" Bench cabinet that came with chinese made pick up tube and gun. The tube and gun were worthless and replaced with a USA made "TP" tube and gun. AS was the clear plastic cover with glass. Bead Blasting is used to to remove silver solder and other unwanted material from constructed parts. It is also used to remove tool marks in hard to get places as well as give a smooth surface for polishing if required. It can provide a casting appearance to a machined part if needed as well as a superb surface for painting. It is used to round corners that are difficult to machine. It can move and remove small amounts of metal that again would be difficult to machine. It can also be used to shape and bend small parts to a desired shape. An example of this can be seen in a photo I have posted under my name. The Radiator Cap was machined straight. The gentle curve to match the top of the radiator was formed with high pressure glass bead in a couple of minutes or so. This sort of thing can save many hours of complicated machining and hand work as well as giving the needed finish and appearance. But again will only be done with a qaulity gun with absolute control. It is just as easy to damage a part. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: ... cleaning [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Pasek Dennis Civ 520 SMXS/MXDEB" dennis.pasekx~xxhill.af.mil Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:12 pm ((PST)) I have been cleaning and repainting my Atlas-Craftsman 12" and used mostly mineral spirits along with some engine degreaser (for larger parts) followed by paint stripper and pressure washing. I blew the water off with compressed air to avoid surface rust. Any remaining hard deposits removed easily with a wire cup brush on a small angle grinder. All of the small parts including gears and screws got degreased in an ultrasonic cleaner with mineral spirits. All of the quick change gearbox parts came out nearly spotless. This treatment worked *very* well for me with a minimum of hand labor, and I have the iron and aluminum castings, including the bed, repainted. BTW, I got a gallon of some industrial enamel made by Van Sickle that is intended for heavy machinery. It comes in standard colors for Cat, Case, John Deere, etc. and thins with about 10% VM&P naptha for spray application. It is about $20 per gallon and I have used less than a quart. I applied two coats to cover the rough sand cast surfaces. It produces a nice glossy finish and seems really tough. Now I need to work on the underdrive pedistal but the weather has become too cold, so I guess painting have to wait until next Spring. I certainly hope that docn8as *is* one of the last to still use old gasoline for cleaning. Please do not recommend it. You do not know how careful (or careless) the next person might be and he could wind up cooked as a result of following your suggestion. People who use gasoline as a cleaning solvent are often known as crispy critters. Those who haven't (yet) met with personal disaster have been both very careful and very lucky. It is far too volatile (meaning high vapor pressure) and flammable to use as a solvent. Besides, it contains a whole range of compounds besides iso-octane, from butane to aromatics to light oils and organometallics that will leave a residue on your parts. And you really don't want it on your skin. Some of this stuff will translocate. Just don't use it. It is not worth the risk. The little money you save could cost you far too much. Lacquer thinners, acetone, and VM&P Naptha are just as bad from a safety point of view, but at least they leave no residues, so they can be used for small areas in limited quantities with a brush or swab (*not* in open buckets.) They are high volatility, meant to flash evaporate from paint droplets during spray application. Anything containing ketones (acetone or MEK) will damage cured paint due to the high solvent power. Stoddard Solvent (mineral spirits) and 140 degree solvent are both safe and effective for removing petroleum oils and greases when used properly, leaving a clean, dry, paintable surface. They also remove non-crosslinked vegetable oils. For general purpose degreasing, they are my preference. Chlorinated solvents, engine degreasers, carb cleaners, highly alkaline detergents, or paint strippers can be used for tougher jobs, especially when followed by treatment with a pressure washer for rinsing. Citrus solvent (limonene) is effective (even better than the 140 solvent), safe, and readily available. But it is listed as a skin irritant and sensitizer, and has some chemical similarities to some of the components in the old 'gum spirits of turpentine'. Thus the allergy complaint by rexarino. It would be a good idea to keep your hands out of it if you use it. In some cases, isopropyl alcohol works safely where other solvents fail. A good example is for removing the varnish left behind by old stale gasoline. The alcohol is very effective for that application, where aliphatic solvents like mineral spirits will fail completely, and aromatics like toluene or xylene are mediocre. ...> Naptha appears to be a combination of trimethylbenzenes - all hydrocarbon compounds,... That would be aromatic naptha. VM&P is aliphatic as are the deoderized versions of mineral spirits and kerosene. Much less toxicity. There are many different cleaners for different purposes, like rexarino says, but it is best to stay away from anything that is classified as 'flammable' for use in any quantity. Regards, Dennis ------- NOTE TO FILE: Jerry Kieffer was talking about his procedures for silver soldering that included bead blasting. [The soldering conversation starts April 7, 2008 and can be found here in the Soldering file.] Another maker of miniature blasting equipment is Paasche, who have made a gun (eraser) the size of their other artist airbrushes. Tiny but very precise and effective on small areas. ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. [sherline] Posted by: "Greg Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz Date: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:07 pm ((PDT)) Blair Shallard wrote: > Jerry K. You mentioned that you bead blasted parts in a recent post. I have been google searching the process, but mostly coming up with large industrial bead blasting applications. I wondered if you could offer some more information on how you do it. Thanks in advance. Blair. < Badger makes/ used to make a little aluminium oxide (sand) blaster that ran off a hobby compressor. It's a very useful little toy! Regards, Greg.P. ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:16 pm ((PDT)) Blair: I have two Bead Blasting cabinets. One is a larger 800 series USA made Cabinet (TP Tools) located in a shed behind the house. It is more expensive and larger than most will need but it is a superb Quality unit. I also have a small 20" square top load unit in the basement shop area with the vacuum unit vented outside. This unit (About $200.00) was made by Cyclone Blasting systems and claimed to be USA made. When I got the unit it had a clear plastic door on top that was promptly replaced with Glass. It also had a pickup tube and Gun that was made in China and needless to say was completely worthless. Both the pickup Tube and gun were replaced with American made items from TP Tools as used in my larger Cabinet. After modifications I really like this Handy little Cabinet. I am now able to do most of the items I do in this unit. When purchasing Bead Blasting equipment the quality of the pick up tube and Gun are everything. Without these items being of the highest quality, little will happen. Blasting Cabinets are generally one of the most useful items in the shop. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "Mike Bauers" mwbauers55x~xxwi.rr.com Date: Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:45 am ((PDT)) Look in artists supplies for what they call an 'air-eraser'. It's the same tool and still in production by other makers. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:26 am ((PDT)) "Blair Shallard" wrote: > Any chance of a photo? > Maybe even some shots if you have them of parts before and after? b. Blair: You can google the equipment names mentioned as well as others for equipment photo`s and specifications. At this point I probably will not be silver soldering until after the NAMES Show next weekend. However I can post a photo of the end result under my name. The part connected to the springs was fabricated from seven individual parts that are silver soldered (1200 Degrees) together to represent a single casting. (Minus the legs or arms on each side.) The bead blaster was used to remove excessive silver solder but leave enough to form the proper contours in the corners to duplicate the original full size part. It was also used to rapidly remove tool marks in hard to reach areas and round/shape sharp corners to duplicate the appearance of the original casting. And finally it was used to give the part a surface texture that also duplicates the original casting. I also have one of the Badger Air Brush type micro blasters. For those who have not used this equipment it is very handy for cleaning micro surfaces. However it is not large enough or suitable in any way for the work mentioned above. I will be curious if anyone will recognize the part in the Photo. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:20 am ((PDT)) "Mark from Tokyo" wrote: > Jerry, Very nice work (as always), appears > to be a "springer" style front end for a bike. Cheers, Mark "Alan Haisley" wrote: > Is it possibly your Harley front suspension? Alan Alan and Mark: It appears that was too easy. I was waiting for some fanatic to quote the type, model, year and the slight detail that still needs to be installed. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:54 am ((PDT)) "chieftoolmaker" wrote: > Mr. Kieffer, Point of Information please. > Have you tried, and what media do you prefer for your "Bead Blasters"? > Regards, Mr. Glickstein Mr. Glickstein: Bead Blasting generally refers to Glass Bead only. For most work I use a good quality 80 grit Glass Bead. The cheap stuff from Harbor Freight and others seems to have as much sand in it as glass bead, decreasing efficiency and effect. It also breaks down much faster as it is reclaimed and reused in the cabinets. Jerry Kieffer ------- Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "pasons1" pasons1x~xxjuno.com Date: Mon May 26, 2008 4:06 pm ((PDT)) I bought some Starret squares and need to remove years of neglect and dirt. Is there an easy way to do it that won't damage the markings? Thanks Phil ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za Date: Mon May 26, 2008 9:45 pm ((PDT)) Phil - for grease and grime suggest non-abrasive NON CAUSTIC household cleaner ( preferably with ammonia ) to start with . If any rust left, use electrolytic cleaning (see http://www.htpaa.org.au/article-electro.php), and polish with 0000 grade steel wool, good luck. Carvel ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "Fred" fred1900x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue May 27, 2008 10:18 am ((PDT)) There is a product called Flitz that is good for removing corrosion. It is a gray paste that chemically alters the corrosion so that it diminishes or dissappears. http://www.flitz.com/ The other item is called Nevr-Dull, which is a an impregnated cottony material that you rub the item with and the corrosion rubs off onto the wool which blackens as it works. http://www.nevrdull.com/ Fred19 ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com Date: Tue May 27, 2008 8:44 pm ((PDT)) Not related to cleaning per say but more about care and maintenance of these tools: get a bottle of Starrett's M1 tool and instrument oil and use it after you clean it. For the cleaning, I'd suggest 0000 steel wool or, better yet, bronze wool, which doesn't rust if little pieces stay with the tool. You could also try the ultrafine scotchbrite. ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" jmartin957x~xxaol.com Date: Wed May 28, 2008 7:39 am ((PDT)) M1 and tool and instrument oil are two entirely different products. M1 is a penetrating oil, lubricant and rust preventative. The lighter components evaporate, leaving behind a film which provides lubrication and rust protection indefinitely. Far better than WD40. I buy it by the gallon, and dip, wipe or spray it with a compressed air Sure Shot sprayer. Also available in aerosol cans and in drums. Starrett's tool and instrument oil is a lightweight lubricating oil, somewhat like 3-in-1 or clock oil. Lubrication is its primary purpose, rust prevention is secondary. It is sold only in 4 ounce bottles. John Martin ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com Date: Wed May 28, 2008 1:36 pm ((PDT)) Whoops, I knew that something wasn't right. I have both. I usually use the M1 around the shop and the instrument oil in the toolbox. Michael ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.com Date: Wed May 28, 2008 2:21 pm ((PDT)) I use instrument oil for, well, instruments. I try to oil them every few uses so they're protected. If I'm not going to use something for a while I'll hit it with the M1 and let it 'dry', that way it's good for a while. If it's going up on a shelf for a long while (or what may become one) I hit it with LPS-3. Rotary table, dividing head, large angle plates. The instruments not in the machinist's chest are in a vertical cabinet with a "gold-n-rod" 20W heater to keep the cabinet above ambient and to frighten away the rust demons. ------- NOTE TO FILE: This last topic of cleaning Starret Squares has wandered further off topic into the removal of corrosion. Electrolytic and other methods of removing corrosion are well described in the "Rust Removal" text file here at Machining and Metalworking at Home. More about lubricants in the "Lubricants General" file. -------