This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ This file contains discussions and tips on methods to clean tools and machinery used in home workshops. The information here may be applicable to tools and machinery used in other crafts or hobbies. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO SAFETY WHILE CLEANING! Safety requirements for the particular cleaning product may require added special precautions not mentioned here. Be very careful and consult the cleaning product manufacturer or government occupational health and safety sources if you have any questions or doubts before proceeding! In every case wear suitable protective gloves, clothes, masks, and eye protection; take any further safety precautions suggested on the product label or material safety data sheet (available from the manufacturer). Unplug any machine to be cleaned. Ensure there are no other electrical or open-flame or heat or spark hazards in the area that might be exposed to the cleaning material or its vapors. Remove or completely cover and seal the electric motor and wiring and switches before cleaning; do not get any cleaning material onto or into these electrical or electronic parts. After cleaning make sure any electrical device or attachment is completely dry inside and out before plugging it in or turning it on. Usually the best place for cleaning is outside, well away from buildings and wind and flame or any source of ignition. For removing grease from old machines, various products like carburetor cleaners and oven cleaners have been suggested in these newsgroups. The latter two products may hurt paint, so test on a small area first. Testing first on a small area is a good idea in any case. Ignition cleaners and WD-40 won't normally damage paint. Never use gasoline or similar products!!! Some commercial cleaning products are flammable; there are much safer alternatives! THERE ARE COMMERCIAL PROPRIETARY CLEANERS THAT MAY BE BETTER AND SAFER THAN HOME RECIPES. WATER-BASED CLEANERS MAY WORK VERY WELL; PARTS NEED TO BE DRIED QUICKLY AND RE-LUBED ON BARE METAL AREAS TO PREVENT INSTA-RUST. CHOOSE PRODUCTS WISELY AND WORK EXTREMELY CAREFULLY, FOLLOWING ALL SAFETY PRECAUTIONS. NOTE TO FILE: There is another very useful general file called Finish for Tools that mentions machine cleaning/polishing/repainting/etc. and it may help answer some of your cleaning/finishing questions. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2015 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. =========================================================================== From: Gregory Gagarin Date: Sun Dec 5, 1999 1:52pm Subject: Shop Tip Just a few ideas: 1. If you don't already have one, get a pistol cleaning kit from a gun shop -- the kind with a T-handle and a 8-10" rod and screw-on cleaning tips. The .45 cal cotton tips/swabs works great for cleaning/oiling the Sherline spindle bore and MT-1 taper. Between the .22, .32, .38 & .45 cal swabs and brass brushes you have good cleaners for virtually all of the holes in the mill, lathe and accessories. You can also use these to push the gun cleaning pads through the bores. The brass brush works quite well for removing burs from a setscrew hole (or any cross bored hole) into a main bore. Ron L. mentioned to me the use of shotgun cleaning pads which work great as above. 2. At the grocery or durg store you can buy small wire/nylon twist brushes used for cleaning between teeth at gums. These are like little bottle brushes and come in various sizes and shapes (straight cylinders or tapered cylinders). These are cheap and work very well for cleaning small holes AND screw threads (push it in and screw it out). They can also be bent to reach hard to get-to places. 3. If you have a mill MT-1 boring bar holder, it works great as a variable off-set Dial Test Indicator holder for the mill or lathe. I use mine regularly to sweep in adjustable tailstock accessories and tools in them -- can get a lot closer than visual aligning of centers, can make the adjustment near where the tailstock/tool will be in use and can check TIR for pointing. If it's got to be good, I adjust my drills at the point rather than before or after the chuck. Also, don't forget to consider using the same accessory on the lathe for actual boring -- material on cross slide. It's a 2-dimensional setup but works great for making custom lathe toolholders since the hole height is automatically set for center cutting holes (boring bar holders, etc.). 4. Ron L. sent me a suggestion that I use paper towels on my tools in the shop. At first I thought this was a strange suggestion -- being a know-it-all newbie with bundles of "shop rags" and using paper towels like everyone for hands and mess clean-up. I tried it! Thanks Ron! Since you start with a clean one every time (I give each a spray shot of oil) and then discard after use, I have found that I simply relocate a lot fewer chips and grime than I did with rags. He also suggested using them in twists like 1. above -- works quite well. I still use my rags but the combination is an improvement. 5. Does everyone know and use the Bedside Reader Tip on using cigarette paper for work location? If a thou is good enough, I will use a cigarette paper every time -- it's especially good for Z location where you don't want to scar the work. 6. Does everyone know how to use a DTI for mill centering between two oposite edges without having to know/calculate out backlash? Enough -- got to get back to work. Have fun, Greg ------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:11:49 -0000 From: "Russ Kepler" Subject: Re: RE: Old Oil >If mineral spirits are not doing the job, just ramp up to a "hotter" >solvent. Aerosol carb cleaner will usually do the trick, but can >affect paint. If everything is apart, soak the bearings and spindles >in lacquer thinner. This should take everything off. The best solvent I ever found for removing old oil (and I include WD-40, Stoddards, acetone, lacquer thinner, etc.) is a fairly new cleaner called "Oil Eaters". It's an enzyme based cleaner that really does a job on old oil and crap, I got mine at one of those warehouse type places. The only downside is that it doesn't work at all if the temperature is less than room temp - in my 50 degF shop I have to take it inside or wait for summer. This stuff is cool - spray it on and watch the varnish wash down the side in a yellow stream. I usually spray with Starret M1 afterwards as I don't think that there's any remaining oil after this cleaner. Good thing is that it appears completely compatable with paint. Russ ------- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:32:30 -0800 (PST) From: model-engineerx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Removing OLD oil WD-40 works surprisingly well... dissolves the varnish and dried oil so it can just be wiped off. Safe for paint! When I disassembled my QC-54, I used Simple Green and a toothbrush, rinsing, drying and oiling the parts afterward. This, too worked great! -Jon ------- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:41:25 -0600 From: "J Tiers" Subject: Re: Removing OLD oil I use no solvents but the purple cleaner sold at Lowes and Home Depot etc is great. Dissolves any kind of greasy stuff, and works well on most gums. Cheaper than solvents, and nicer to work with IMHO Best is you can stand next to the furnace while you work, it's NOT flammable. It is related to the oven cleaner Marty mentioned, actually, since it is diluted lye and some soapy stuff. I highly recommend it. if you are worried about paint, don't leave it on as long. For parts you can soak, you may want to oil them afterwards, as they will be so clean they may rust while they dry. Jerry ------- Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:42:30 -0600 From: Jim Irwin Subject: Re: Atlas Horizontal Mill cleaning [NOTE: ATLAS HORIZ MILL FOUND IN BARN COVERED WITH GUNK & LIGHT RUST] JC, Here's what I would do FYI & FWIW I recommend not starting this process unless you have time to completely tear-down and clean all critical parts the same day. 1. Set it out in the run til it gets warm thru and thru, or' till eleven-ish. 2. Spray it down real good and wet with cheap engine block cleaner. Let it sit in the sun another hour. 3. Car wash it or other high pressure spray. (Use medium stiff wire brushes (hand held) to loosen any still-stuck grunge.) See NOTE below. 4. Allow to drain thoroughly, turning and tilting to get as much as possible out of nooks and crannies. 5. Douse thoroughly with a water displacing lubricant, like LPS 1 or 2 (WD-40 is OK for this, and is a fair cleaner, but is a poor water displacer. 6. Allow to drain thoroughly, turning and tilting to get as much as possible out of nooks and crannies. 7. Blow off with compressed air using nozzle extensions, etc to get into them nooks and crannies. 8. Begin teardown and detail cleaning immediately. NOTE: This process may compromise any ball or roller bearings, so be prepared to repack or replace them, or back off the high pressure spray in the vicinity of the bearings. Best regards, Jim Irwin ------- Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 04:57:12 -0000 From: "gtrz240" Subject: Here is the best,easy,cheap way to clean up a Lathe Hey people! I have done this twice so I can speak from " be there done that". I have tried all of the other chemical cleaners i.e. brake cleaner thinners, you name it. I purchased three lathe one was kind of clean and two had at least 25 years of crud and black brown ugly stuff that was tuff as nails! Here is how to do it. Take most of the lathe apart i.e. tool post, cross slide, apron, lead screw, tail stock but leave the head stock in place with the gears and spindle. Remove the gears that drive the lead screw and the motor. Now take $5.95 and go to HomeDepot and purchase 1 gallon of Zep Citrus cleaner ( don't buy any other cleaner ) and a lite pair of rubber gloves. ( also purchasing flowers for the wife can hurt) return home. Take the lathe outside to an area where you can hose it off later. Pour the Zep cleaner in a spray bottle and spray it like you hate it. Let the Zep work for 5 min. or longer. Keep it wet and spray ever 5 min. Then take a stiff brush and do a little scrubbing. Spray and clean the head stock gears and every little spot (bearings too). Grab the hose or pressure washer ( low setting about 1200psi.) and spray it all clean. Repeat the spray and clean treatment if needed. You won't believe how good this stuff works. Once clean, grab the air hose and blow the lathe dry. Spray air in all the small cracks and holes. Spray "water displacement on the 40th try" ( WD40 ) and soak the lathe, then spray the WD40 into all the cracks, seams, and holes( oil cups too). Take the clean lathe inside and fill all the bearing oil cups with oil (the wicks should have been removed before cleaning) Use the air gun and pump the oil through the bearings, do this ten time and spin the spindle 180 degrees each time.This will flush all the crud built up in the bearing area. For the next couple of days fill the bearing cups up with oil and spin the spindle. The cleaning of the other part is pretty much the same way. I have also left any bad looking parts in a plastic tub for a couple of day and once rinsed with hot water are ready to paint. The small parts that will fit in the kitchen sink ( this is where the flowers come in handy) I rinse with very hot water. The part will have no grease film left that will affect your new paint. The secret is that the crud on your lathe is part dirt, grease, oil and solvents. Zep Citrus clean them all!!!! The Zep also help clean the lite rust off. The Zep will take the paint off if left on the parts for a day or longer. Hope this helps someone. Dan in Portland Oregon ------- NOTE TO FILE: Following is a link to a website detailing one person's terrible health experience with brake cleaner. After reading this, I'm not going to use brake cleaner or any other product containing tetrachloroethylene, also called tetrachloroethene, ever again. There are safer products, but in truth there are very few totally safe products. Always read the product label before use, and if in any doubt about the instructions or safety warnings, look up the ingredients on the internet; you can also ask any manufacturer for the product's MSDS -- Material Safety Data Sheet -- which they must provide. http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm ------- Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 14:27:10 -0500 From: Guy Fuller Subject: Re: Here is the best,easy,cheap way to clean up a Lathe Not trying to offend anyone, but I would not use water or any water based cleaner on any of my metal working machines. If there is a drop of water in a bearing or somewhere else that you cannot get to with the air hose then it will mix ( yes oil and water will mix if stirred enough) and will cause the bearings (if the water happens to be in the bearings) to fail causing damage to any shafts or other components that depends on the bearings. You will not be able to get all the water out of every nook and cranny. Stay with the petroleum based cleaners. Guy ------- Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:43:38 -0500 From: "Koepke, Kevin" Subject: RE: Here is the best,easy,cheap way to clean up a Lathe It all depends on where you live, as to what works best. Since I discovered they work, I have used water based detergents on all my machines, though I dismantle the machines completely (I think this is the key). I have cleaned bearings with it as well. Since Atlas didn't use sealed bearings with plastic seals, the use of an oven to dry them out will work. I let the oven come up to 225 degrees with the pieces in it (so the pieces are also near this temperature) then turn off an let cool. I only use the oven on bearings. Most other items dry good with paper towels. Once painted, I apply a thin coat of oil to all bare metal surfaces, prior to assembly. I live south of Houston, and it's usually about 90% humidity (here lately it's been a wonderful 60%). The use of compressed air would allow moisture to get into the cracks and crannies. I have to drain the compressor tank after each day of use. Driers don't help much. Kevin ------- Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 03:45:42 -0000 From: "Bill Collins " Subject: Re: Quick Change Toolposts - Why? The machine shop instructor at our trade school expelled two students for using compressed air to remove chips.I use a pocket pen magnet and an old Tristar vacuum cleaner to remove the swarf.This old vacuum work great for that. Not using compressed air for chip removal should be a point made in Shop Safety. GB. Bill C. ------- Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:33:13 -0500 From: Rodent Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? Original Message ----- > Big tub of kerosene works wonders on the old bikes - would guess it > would do the same for any workshop kit >>I have some machinery parts that have decades of shop grime on them >>and need cleaning up. I have a sandblast cabinet. I know I don't want >>to use sand on machined surfaces.Rather than the expense of buying glass >>beads, I wonder if I can just buy some big boxes of baking soda and >>use that? I read about how it is a good blast medium for machined >>surfaces, but I wonder if you need some special type? >>Anybody have any experience with this? ...or mineral spirits. I bought a cheap parts washer years ago from Harbor Freight which holds about 2 gallons of solvent. Its cleaned a butt-load of bike parts, machine parts, etc... All the spooge collects in the bottom and there is a small filter on the pump for the smaller pieces. Sandblasting or glass-beading anything with bearing surfaces means you have to thoroughly wash out every nook and cranny or take a chance on getting blast media somewhere it does not belong. If you just want to clean off the gunk, use solvent and a brush. If you need to restore alloy, remove a lot of rust or take off paint (and chemical stripper won't work), blasting may be the only option. ------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:38:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Smith Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? Lynn, I have used baking soda for blasting. I purchased a blasting gun called "SpeedBlaster" which has a container attached to it to hold your blasting media. I just attached it to an air hose at work (about 90-100psi) and started blasting. The snowmobile engine parts I was blasting looked like new when I finished. I ran the air hose outside to do the blasting since my employers blasting cabinet was full of silica sand. Even though I blasted outdoors on a slightly windy day, I still looked like a snowman after I had finished. I used regular Arm and Hammer baking soda bought in a grocery store... Don ------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:58:43 -0700 From: "9mmuzi" <9mmuzix~xxadelphia.net> Subject: RE: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? I just finished cleaning up an old Atlas, I brushed on multiple coats of GUNK, let it sit awhile in the sun, then I brushed on one more coat and sprayed it with a hard stream of water from my garden hose. Used shop air to dry it off, then drenched it with WD-40 and blew it off. Finally, I oiled everything, looks beautiful. Any ball bearings should be repacked with grease unless they are sealed bearings. ------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:08:51 -0400 From: "Richard Farris" Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? > Big tub of kerosene works wonders on the old bikes - would guess it > would do the same for any workshop kit Brian Yup. That's what I use - Big ol washtub with about 2 to 3 gal of kerosene and a number of different size scrub brushes. Then when I got the part clean, I do it again with fresh Kerosene. Let the kerosene settle and decant into a container that I can seal till next time. Dick ------- Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 16:06:03 -0400 From: mark Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery storebaking soda? We build custom blast cabinets and sell some of the import ones. Soda is not going to be a simple option for you due to equipment requirements. For REALLY gentle blasting like removing plastic moulding flash, paint from chrome or glass, crud from electrical insulators etc there is crushed walnut shell and corn cob available. Best bet would be to spring for a bag of fine glass bead (NOT CRUSHED GLASS) and use the lowest air pressure that will carry the bead thru your system. Watch for any frosting of blasted surfaces....you are destroying it if it is supposed to be a sliding surface. ------- Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 16:50:36 -0400 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? Hi Lynn, The "baking soda" blast media is much more crystalline than the grocery store stuff. Better to dunk the parts in a cheap large pot of kerosene and have at it with a toilet brush if it's just surface grunge you want to clean off. Dunking in hot TSP solution will strip most paints, and get you down to clean, ready to prime metal quickly. Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:51:56 EDT From: CaptonZapx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store baking soda? In a message dated 4/8/03 12:14:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Jeepx~xxmountain.net writes: > as I understand it. it is not that easy.. requires special equipment and a LOT of air... something on the order of 100 cfm. I wanted to use soda as well... better surface and a lot less cleanup when used outside... My .02 archie =) =) =) < Well, if you have already purchased the soda, put half a cup per gallon of water in a plastic container big enough to hold the part. Get a piece of metal, (not aluminum) with about the same surface area as the part, and put it on one side of the container. Do not let it touch the part. Hook the positive lead of a battery charger to the piece, and the negative lead to the plate. Plug in the charger. Put it in six volt mode if you have it. Come back in a few hours, and check your progress. Rinse well when done. CZ ------- Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:05:41 -0400 From: "John Glowacki" Subject: Re: FW: Soda Blast??? can I use grocery store bakin g soda? This is called electrolosis. Here is a link to a website that explains it well. http://www.angelfire.com/tx/hotube/electro.html This works well if you have an old engine that is stuck tight with rust John Glowacki ------- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:12:00 EDT From: JMartin957x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: die-cast pot-metal parts effected by lye? << My atlas mill and shaper have several die cast "pot metal" parts (like casing for the power feed on the mill, the cheesy gears in the mill's feed, the advance casing on the shaper, etc). Knowing that lye eats up aluminum, I wonder if it will eat up this metal? I don't know what is in the alloy of this pot metal. Oven cleaner is lye based, by the way. That sounds like a simple trick- the black bag oven. Thanks. Lynn Kasdorf >> Zinc, tin and some other metals are affected by alkali solutions just as aluminum is. Reactions may not be as fast, or they may be faster - I can't remember. Keep the lye away. John Martin ------- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:00:11 -0700 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Solvents [FOR CLEANING] http://howstuffworks.lycoszone.com/question105.htm is a website that will explain a fair bit of the various hydrocarbons. It is an interesting review of hydrocarbons. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:05:17 -0000 From: "lkasdorf" Subject: my 12x36 was underwater... My shop was flooded on Sep 23 (6' of muddy water) and I'm slowly piecing everything back together. My old 12x36 craftsman 101.07403 was totally submerged. Since it was pretty oily (I've not had a chance yet to tear it down, clena and rebuild), I'm hoping that the water didn't do much harm. Right after the flood, I took it outside and doused and squrted diesel fuel everywhere I could. My question is- do you think I'll be able to just oil everything real well and go for it? My biggest concern is how well the timken spindle bearings are sealed and whether mud got in there. AT some point I'll a complete teardown and rebuild...I just don't have the time for that right now. ------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:15:17 -0500 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... I thought from the model # it would have Babbit bearings. Those are easy to open up and inspect. If they are, indeed, Timken bearings, I think you are going to end up replacing them. There is going to be mud in them, and that will wreck the bearing surfaces. Well, you can try it out. After the bearings start making grinding noises, then you'll know for sure. It isn't hard to pick the bearing covers off with a pocket knife so you can get a good look at them. There may also be needle roller bearings in the countershaft to attend to. The motor is likely kaput. Jon ------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:16:00 -0400 From: "Dick Farris" Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... Get a couple of spray cans of electrical contact cleaner and blow them in the air vent slots on the motor before you give up on it. After flushing it good - let it dry out for a goodly period of time (couple of hours) - then give the bearings a couple of drops of oil each (if there are places to oil), don't overdo the oiling, couple of drops for each bearing. Spin the shaft by hand and if it feels ok then give it some juice. Make sure you've got a functioning shutoff switch and the circuit is fused and/or on a breaker. Hope this helps, Dick ------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:00:18 -0400 (EDT) From: x xx Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... IMO you need to find the time to tear down, wipe and oil up. Save the assembly for later if you must, but you've gotta get the crud out, particularly if it's salty crud. The bearings are trivial since they can be changed, but get cleaned up under the TS, the saddle and, I think you'd better, also under the HS since capillary action will draw the water in and once rust sets in it generates it own oxygen to continue its work. Nother approach if you're short of time is dismantle, chuck it all in a bucket of methyl alky. Since alky and water are perfectly miscible, the alky will absorb the water. When that's been done, transfer it all to a bucket of mineral spirits till you have time to do a good job. Sam ------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:30 EDT From: WaynesTrnsx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... Hi Ike, I can't speak for the lathe but if your motor was running ok before it went diving you can easily put it back into operation if you got oil into it so nothing rusted. DO NOT TURN IT AT ALL!! Take the screws out of the end housings of the motor. if the shafts have any rust,crud etc take something to them to get down to a nice clean smooth surface them film some oil on them and pull the motor ends off of the shafts. You've already removed the pulley, right!? If your motor uses a centrifical switch to cut out its start winding after reaching operating speed, you will also need to remove a couple of wires to be able to remove one of the ends. You can wash everthing out with some kind of soap and water, I use simple green. Rinse well and dry it absolutely dry!! If your motor had sleeve bearings they are in the ends, if they are roller they will most likely stay on the shafts. Either way get the surfaces clean. Roller bearings can be serviced by popping the side seals off, flushing ALL the old grease away and repacking the bearing. A heat gun or really good hair dryer can help turn the old grease/wax combo back to a thinner consistancey so you can get rid of it. Pay attention to all insulating material in the motor so you don't diminish its effectiveness during your cleaning. Best of luck to you, Wayne ------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:22:26 -0000 From: "tailshaft56" Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... If it had been my lathe I probably would haved hosed it out good with fresh water before the diesel dousing to try and flush out the mud. You could flush till the water comes out clear. Blow out water with compressed air and the douse with diesel and apply liberal amounts of water. We used palin old water to clean electronic gear when i was in the navy. Just need to be sure it's apart enough to dry it out good. At any rate you might be able to save the moter by at least taking it apart and cleaning it good. Good luck with it. Let us know how you make out on it. Dennis ------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:01:43 -0500 From: "Randy Pedersen" Subject: Re: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... I spent a few years working as the service manager in a marine dealership. When we received a call of a sunken boat I would tell the customer to leave it under the water until I could get there to retrieve it and get it running. Bearings will start to rust the minute air can get to them after being submerged. Best advise is to bite the bullet and tear it down and clean & oil it as soon as possible waiting will only cost you more money in the long run. Randy Pedersen Salina, Ks Atlas 618 South Bend 1946 9" A, 1938 9" CEnco 1105 Mill Drill ------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:46:33 -0000 From: "carbure2003" Subject: Re: my 12x36 was underwater... In 1998 my Craftsman lathe was damaged by a burst water pipe located above the lathe. I discovered the fact 12 hours after the incident. As water had time to go everywhere before I found it, the bed became very corroded. (it was not submerged) Within the next day, I stripped out the lathe piece by piece and it is amazing how water got everywhere by capillary action. My bed needed to be surface ground. I strongly recommend to strip out the lathe all in pieces and clean all corrosion immediately. Use the part manual; it is a very good help for this purpose. Take the time, even if you don't have any. It is worth it. If you need further help, reach me at guycadx~xxnetzero.net G. Cadrin Gatineau, Quebec, Canada ------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 02:41:10 -0000 From: "Clifton Schlicher" Subject: White lead removal I just bought an Atlas 10F in pretty good shape for $200. I am in the process of cleaning it up prior to installation. I ran the tailstock out all the way, until it disengaged from the screw. It was pretty stiff. The ram won't budge now with the screw disengaged.The problem seems to be the white lead used to lubricate the ram. Over years of storage the lead has turned to rock. Does anyone know what solvent is best to soften/remove the lead? If I can soften the lead, I should be able to push the ram back in enought to re-engage the screw and the work it back and forth with the wheel till it loosens enough to remove it. I have chipped enough out of the oil dropper hole to let solvent sit in it for a day/days. Until I get a response, I will probably try mineral spirits. Thanks. Clif ------- Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:22:37 -0800 From: Jay Greer Subject: Re: White lead removal Clif, Most likely the problem is not with the white lead but with the linseed oil vehicle. Try a good brand of paint remover like Star 10, which is used for stripping aircraft paint. Best of luck, Jay Greer ------- Subject: Re: anvil cleanup [oldtools lst] From: T&J Holloway Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:02:50 -0700 On Tuesday, September 14, 2004, Bill Kasper wrote: > ok, now that i have my first anvil, how do i clean it up? > My machinist friend, dave, suggested a flap-wheel on his angle > grinder. that sounded a bit, shall we say, harsh. i was thinking the > razor blade/220 grit/320 grit/mineral spirits/wax approach might do > better, since there isn't any real flattening to be done, and no chips > out of the edges. > I was going to take a brass hand brush to the cast iron, using simple > green, just to get the gunk off. then dry it in the oven, and apply > more wax. another alternative is to sandblast the whole thing. or to > leave it alone. > It's to sit on my benchtop and use for all the metalworking i need for > the time being, so i want it clean and unrusty. Bill-- I'll start with the usual disclaimer mantra: It's your tool, and you can do what you want with it. That said, the angle grinder sounds, as you suggest, "harsh" as well as unnecessary overkill. Ditto sandblasting. OTOH, the "razor blade/220 grit/320 grit/mineral spirits/wax" process seems to be, um, common saw dit? too froo-froo for an anvil. If you was me, I would slop some paint thinner (or mineral spirits, if you want to pay more money for basically the same solvent) on a rag or one of those tough blue paper towels, and rub all over your anvil. If there is really grunge to remove, you could do this with a wire brush, and then wipe with a rag. A brass brush is likely to leave that goldish chatoyance that I understand is one of the attractions of certain Alaska-made holdfasts, but a made-in-China painter's wire brush from the dollar store will do the trick. Keep in mind, this thing is practically indestructable, and has no "finish" to preserve. Once it's "clean enough," a wipe-down with BLO, thinned or straight, will keep the rust from coming back, or you can wax it if you want to use up some wax. Or spray lightly with Boshield if you already have it around and then wipe down lightly, but don't go out and spend the $ for Boshield just for this--a can of it would run maybe half what you paid for the anvil. ["BLO" = Boiled Linseed Oil, which normally has nothing to do with "boiling" but rather the addition of chemical dryers to harden quicker.] If you want to keep it on your bench, you might make a simple shallow "tray" with a scrap of laminated sheet goods (plywood) with a rudimentary border of cleats from the scrap box to keep it from sliding around. That will protect the benchtop, but not create the sponginess of a rubber pad base. If you're going to use it for serious pounding, you want the top to be about as high as to reach your knuckles when standing (maybe 29"?), so you might think about a dedicated stand of some sort. The traditional is a round from a tree trunk of the appropriate height, but you could make something from some two-by stock tied together with allthread. HTH Tom Holloway ------- Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:18:05 -0000 From: "buzzard_bluff" Subject: Degreasing gears Dunno if this will help anyone or not but here goes---- As a tinkerer and casual collector of old model airplane engines one of the most frustrating aspects of the hobby is removing baked-on castor oil (used for engine lube as a component of the fuel) that is old enough to draw a pension in some cases. Few things will touch it without melting the base metal. But last year, on a net forum, I read that soaking castor coated engines or parts in an old crock-pot of hot anti-freeze was the hot set-up to remove the grunge and leave the engine looking like it was fresh from the original box. Desperate, I tried it. It works!!! When I got my 10100 a few years ago it came with the seemingly obligatory stack of gears on a long bolt that appeared to have lain in a pile of swarf mixed with old grease since new. Last week I finally got around to attacking them to try to unearth bare metal. Being lazy at the most basic level I broke out the engine cleaning crock-pot, poured in a batch of cheap anti-freeze (it seems to work better than the 'expensive spread') and left a 55 tooth Zamak gear that started life with 56 in it for 20 hours to see if anti-freeze preferred Zamak to grease. What emerged was a sparkling gear with one tooth still missing. So alright already! It won't replace broken teeth. Big deal. But it DOES clean the grunge off. I immersed the good gears overnight, scrubbed them with an old toothbrush the next day to be sure nothing remained and they're now simmering in the crock-pot again, this time in a hot water/dishwashing liquid bath in case anti-freeze isn't a good idea in the long run. Tomorrow I'll pour off the detergent mix and soak them an additional 24 hours in a straight hot-water bath to remove any remaining chemical impregnation. Several comments and clarifications are in order then I need some advice. 1. Do NOT, under ANY circumstance, use the crock-pot belonging to SWMBO and try to sneak it back into the house to be returned to kitchen duties. Anti-freeze is terminally toxic to life if ingested. Instead use your head a bit. Buy SWMBO a shiny, new, improved model and take the old one in trade. Look at the advantages---you get a cleaning system as well as some good eating. Women just HAVE to try out new cooking gear. You'll eat well, gain points toward a 'kitchen pass' for some needed piece or part AND get your own cleaning device for the shop. 2. If that doesn't seem an attractive deal then you can get a small version suitable for most small parts at your ubiquitous Wal-mart for under $10. 3. Dispose of the used anti-freeze where animals, domestic & wild, cannot get to it. It is sweet and will be lapped up eagerly by your mother-in- law's poodle. Uh-oh. I didn't say that! ;o) 4. Don't blame me if you have no more sense than to pay any attention to advice coming from a raw newbie who has no concept of what he is doing. If your Zamak gears melt they are still YOUR Zamack gears and I don't wanta hear about it. Now for the advice bit: I have been told (but I haven't tried it) that model engines (cast iron, cast alum. & steel with occasional examples including zinc alloys) are said to store well indefinately in a glass jar of kerosene. Anyone know if that would also apply to Zamak gears??? If not then how do you store your gears so that they remain clean, lubricated and dirt-free? ------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:33:08 -0000 From: "buzzard_bluff" Subject: Re: Degreasing gears Just checked the gears that were soaking in the dishwashing/water mix. NOT a good idea!! They were starting to exude the white powder-like substance indicative of decaying Zamak. They've now been rinsed extremely well. Three have been scrubbed and polished with a tiny rotary SS brush in a Dremel and the remaining gears are in a clean water bath. In the morning I will re-evaluate both the polished gears and those soaked overnight to see if there are any notable changes and wing it from there. DON'T try this at home--or in the shop--or anywhere else. Darn! I SEEMED like a good idea at the time. Wonder if it was the soap? Gears that melt seem like a poor concept.;o( ------- Re: Attn Jerry Kieffer - Where do you start? (Quality Glass Bead & Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:50 am ((PST)) In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "kuhncw" wrote: > Hello Jerry, I enjoyed your post on fabricating small parts to scale. > Would you please elaborate a bit on what you feel is a "QUALITY Bead > Blaster with QUALITY glass bead." Thanks. Chuck Chuck: First let me say that a Bead Blasting cabnet is something that is constantly used once you own one. It is also something you will never give up once used. While there are many types of blasting material the most common is Sand and Glass bead. Sand is harsh and not desirable for small parts. It is best used on large items where part damage is less of a problem. Glass bead is gentle and controlable for the task`s needed and ideal for small parts. Less expensive glass bead from places like Harbor Freight seem to have as much sand as glass bead. They do not feed as well or produce the desired results on small parts. You need to try various brands to determine what works for you, however USA made material from reputable dealers has always worked well and been worth the few extra dollars. The most important part of a Cabinet system itsself is the pick up tube and the gun. The cheap imports do not consistently pick up material and do not give consistent even pressure or pattern of the blasting material. To make a long story short I would suggest name brand USA made Automotive systems with ALL USA MADE components. While there are several brands I personally prefer "TP Tools and Equipment" products only because the have such a wide variety products and accessories. Other are just as good. I say USA made componets because I have a USA made "Cyclone" Bench cabinet that came with chinese made pick up tube and gun. The tube and gun were worthless and replaced with a USA made "TP" tube and gun. AS was the clear plastic cover with glass. Bead Blasting is used to to remove silver solder and other unwanted material from constructed parts. It is also used to remove tool marks in hard to get places as well as give a smooth surface for polishing if required. It can provide a casting appearance to a machined part if needed as well as a superb surface for painting. It is used to round corners that are difficult to machine. It can move and remove small amounts of metal that again would be difficult to machine. It can also be used to shape and bend small parts to a desired shape. An example of this can be seen in a photo I have posted under my name. The Radiator Cap was machined straight. The gentle curve to match the top of the radiator was formed with high pressure glass bead in a couple of minutes or so. This sort of thing can save many hours of complicated machining and hand work as well as giving the needed finish and appearance. But again will only be done with a qaulity gun with absolute control. It is just as easy to damage a part. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: ... cleaning [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Pasek Dennis Civ 520 SMXS/MXDEB" dennis.pasekx~xxhill.af.mil Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:12 pm ((PST)) I have been cleaning and repainting my Atlas-Craftsman 12" and used mostly mineral spirits along with some engine degreaser (for larger parts) followed by paint stripper and pressure washing. I blew the water off with compressed air to avoid surface rust. Any remaining hard deposits removed easily with a wire cup brush on a small angle grinder. All of the small parts including gears and screws got degreased in an ultrasonic cleaner with mineral spirits. All of the quick change gearbox parts came out nearly spotless. This treatment worked *very* well for me with a minimum of hand labor, and I have the iron and aluminum castings, including the bed, repainted. BTW, I got a gallon of some industrial enamel made by Van Sickle that is intended for heavy machinery. It comes in standard colors for Cat, Case, John Deere, etc. and thins with about 10% VM&P naptha for spray application. It is about $20 per gallon and I have used less than a quart. I applied two coats to cover the rough sand cast surfaces. It produces a nice glossy finish and seems really tough. Now I need to work on the underdrive pedistal but the weather has become too cold, so I guess painting have to wait until next Spring. I certainly hope that docn8as *is* one of the last to still use old gasoline for cleaning. Please do not recommend it. You do not know how careful (or careless) the next person might be and he could wind up cooked as a result of following your suggestion. People who use gasoline as a cleaning solvent are often known as crispy critters. Those who haven't (yet) met with personal disaster have been both very careful and very lucky. It is far too volatile (meaning high vapor pressure) and flammable to use as a solvent. Besides, it contains a whole range of compounds besides iso-octane, from butane to aromatics to light oils and organometallics that will leave a residue on your parts. And you really don't want it on your skin. Some of this stuff will translocate. Just don't use it. It is not worth the risk. The little money you save could cost you far too much. Lacquer thinners, acetone, and VM&P Naptha are just as bad from a safety point of view, but at least they leave no residues, so they can be used for small areas in limited quantities with a brush or swab (*not* in open buckets.) They are high volatility, meant to flash evaporate from paint droplets during spray application. Anything containing ketones (acetone or MEK) will damage cured paint due to the high solvent power. Stoddard Solvent (mineral spirits) and 140 degree solvent are both safe and effective for removing petroleum oils and greases when used properly, leaving a clean, dry, paintable surface. They also remove non-crosslinked vegetable oils. For general purpose degreasing, they are my preference. Chlorinated solvents, engine degreasers, carb cleaners, highly alkaline detergents, or paint strippers can be used for tougher jobs, especially when followed by treatment with a pressure washer for rinsing. Citrus solvent (limonene) is effective (even better than the 140 solvent), safe, and readily available. But it is listed as a skin irritant and sensitizer, and has some chemical similarities to some of the components in the old 'gum spirits of turpentine'. Thus the allergy complaint by rexarino. It would be a good idea to keep your hands out of it if you use it. In some cases, isopropyl alcohol works safely where other solvents fail. A good example is for removing the varnish left behind by old stale gasoline. The alcohol is very effective for that application, where aliphatic solvents like mineral spirits will fail completely, and aromatics like toluene or xylene are mediocre. ...> Naptha appears to be a combination of trimethylbenzenes - all hydrocarbon compounds,... That would be aromatic naptha. VM&P is aliphatic as are the deoderized versions of mineral spirits and kerosene. Much less toxicity. There are many different cleaners for different purposes, like rexarino says, but it is best to stay away from anything that is classified as 'flammable' for use in any quantity. Regards, Dennis ------- NOTE TO FILE: Jerry Kieffer was talking about his procedures for silver soldering that included bead blasting. [The soldering conversation starts April 7, 2008 and can be found here in the Soldering file.] Another maker of miniature blasting equipment is Paasche, who have made a gun (eraser) the size of their other artist airbrushes. Tiny but very precise and effective on small areas. ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. [sherline] Posted by: "Greg Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz Date: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:07 pm ((PDT)) Blair Shallard wrote: > Jerry K. You mentioned that you bead blasted parts in a recent post. I have been google searching the process, but mostly coming up with large industrial bead blasting applications. I wondered if you could offer some more information on how you do it. Thanks in advance. Blair. < Badger makes/ used to make a little aluminium oxide (sand) blaster that ran off a hobby compressor. It's a very useful little toy! Regards, Greg.P. ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:16 pm ((PDT)) Blair: I have two Bead Blasting cabinets. One is a larger 800 series USA made Cabinet (TP Tools) located in a shed behind the house. It is more expensive and larger than most will need but it is a superb Quality unit. I also have a small 20" square top load unit in the basement shop area with the vacuum unit vented outside. This unit (About $200.00) was made by Cyclone Blasting systems and claimed to be USA made. When I got the unit it had a clear plastic door on top that was promptly replaced with Glass. It also had a pickup tube and Gun that was made in China and needless to say was completely worthless. Both the pickup Tube and gun were replaced with American made items from TP Tools as used in my larger Cabinet. After modifications I really like this Handy little Cabinet. I am now able to do most of the items I do in this unit. When purchasing Bead Blasting equipment the quality of the pick up tube and Gun are everything. Without these items being of the highest quality, little will happen. Blasting Cabinets are generally one of the most useful items in the shop. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "Mike Bauers" mwbauers55x~xxwi.rr.com Date: Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:45 am ((PDT)) Look in artists supplies for what they call an 'air-eraser'. It's the same tool and still in production by other makers. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:26 am ((PDT)) "Blair Shallard" wrote: > Any chance of a photo? > Maybe even some shots if you have them of parts before and after? b. Blair: You can google the equipment names mentioned as well as others for equipment photo`s and specifications. At this point I probably will not be silver soldering until after the NAMES Show next weekend. However I can post a photo of the end result under my name. The part connected to the springs was fabricated from seven individual parts that are silver soldered (1200 Degrees) together to represent a single casting. (Minus the legs or arms on each side.) The bead blaster was used to remove excessive silver solder but leave enough to form the proper contours in the corners to duplicate the original full size part. It was also used to rapidly remove tool marks in hard to reach areas and round/shape sharp corners to duplicate the appearance of the original casting. And finally it was used to give the part a surface texture that also duplicates the original casting. I also have one of the Badger Air Brush type micro blasters. For those who have not used this equipment it is very handy for cleaning micro surfaces. However it is not large enough or suitable in any way for the work mentioned above. I will be curious if anyone will recognize the part in the Photo. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:20 am ((PDT)) "Mark from Tokyo" wrote: > Jerry, Very nice work (as always), appears > to be a "springer" style front end for a bike. Cheers, Mark "Alan Haisley" wrote: > Is it possibly your Harley front suspension? Alan Alan and Mark: It appears that was too easy. I was waiting for some fanatic to quote the type, model, year and the slight detail that still needs to be installed. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Question about bead blasting. Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:54 am ((PDT)) "chieftoolmaker" wrote: > Mr. Kieffer, Point of Information please. > Have you tried, and what media do you prefer for your "Bead Blasters"? > Regards, Mr. Glickstein Mr. Glickstein: Bead Blasting generally refers to Glass Bead only. For most work I use a good quality 80 grit Glass Bead. The cheap stuff from Harbor Freight and others seems to have as much sand in it as glass bead, decreasing efficiency and effect. It also breaks down much faster as it is reclaimed and reused in the cabinets. Jerry Kieffer ------- Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "pasons1" pasons1x~xxjuno.com Date: Mon May 26, 2008 4:06 pm ((PDT)) I bought some Starret squares and need to remove years of neglect and dirt. Is there an easy way to do it that won't damage the markings? Thanks Phil ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za Date: Mon May 26, 2008 9:45 pm ((PDT)) Phil - for grease and grime suggest non-abrasive NON CAUSTIC household cleaner ( preferably with ammonia ) to start with . If any rust left, use electrolytic cleaning (see http://www.htpaa.org.au/article-electro.php), and polish with 0000 grade steel wool, good luck. Carvel ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "Fred" fred1900x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue May 27, 2008 10:18 am ((PDT)) There is a product called Flitz that is good for removing corrosion. It is a gray paste that chemically alters the corrosion so that it diminishes or dissappears. http://www.flitz.com/ The other item is called Nevr-Dull, which is a an impregnated cottony material that you rub the item with and the corrosion rubs off onto the wool which blackens as it works. http://www.nevrdull.com/ Fred19 ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com Date: Tue May 27, 2008 8:44 pm ((PDT)) Not related to cleaning per say but more about care and maintenance of these tools: get a bottle of Starrett's M1 tool and instrument oil and use it after you clean it. For the cleaning, I'd suggest 0000 steel wool or, better yet, bronze wool, which doesn't rust if little pieces stay with the tool. You could also try the ultrafine scotchbrite. ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com" jmartin957x~xxaol.com Date: Wed May 28, 2008 7:39 am ((PDT)) M1 and tool and instrument oil are two entirely different products. M1 is a penetrating oil, lubricant and rust preventative. The lighter components evaporate, leaving behind a film which provides lubrication and rust protection indefinitely. Far better than WD40. I buy it by the gallon, and dip, wipe or spray it with a compressed air Sure Shot sprayer. Also available in aerosol cans and in drums. Starrett's tool and instrument oil is a lightweight lubricating oil, somewhat like 3-in-1 or clock oil. Lubrication is its primary purpose, rust prevention is secondary. It is sold only in 4 ounce bottles. John Martin ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com Date: Wed May 28, 2008 1:36 pm ((PDT)) Whoops, I knew that something wasn't right. I have both. I usually use the M1 around the shop and the instrument oil in the toolbox. Michael ------- Re: Off Topic - Cleaning Starret Squares Posted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.com Date: Wed May 28, 2008 2:21 pm ((PDT)) I use instrument oil for, well, instruments. I try to oil them every few uses so they're protected. If I'm not going to use something for a while I'll hit it with the M1 and let it 'dry', that way it's good for a while. If it's going up on a shelf for a long while (or what may become one) I hit it with LPS-3. Rotary table, dividing head, large angle plates. The instruments not in the machinist's chest are in a vertical cabinet with a "gold-n-rod" 20W heater to keep the cabinet above ambient and to frighten away the rust demons. ------- NOTE TO FILE: This last topic of cleaning Starret Squares has wandered further off topic into the removal of corrosion. Electrolytic and other methods of removing corrosion are well described in the "Rust Removal" text file here at Machining and Metalworking at Home. More about lubricants in the "Lubricants General" file. ------- Cleaning Dremel accessories [sherline] Posted by: "Charles Fox" cafox513x~xxgte.net Date: Thu Jul 3, 2008 8:54 am ((PDT)) Okay, I misuse them . . . possibly. But I like grinding away plastic, body filler and the like using certain Dremel accessory tools that fit down inside, reach around this and that. And I wind up with clogged tools. THE QUESTION: Is there any convenient way to clean crud off those tools? I'm not sure of the composition (I'm not talking about the metal bits) of the tool, unfortunately. Thanks up front, Charles Fox ------- Re: Cleaning Dremel accessories Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Jul 3, 2008 10:58 am ((PDT)) I use burrs and rotary files on a Dremel-type tool with a flex head for all sorts of nasty "adjustments"... When they get clogged, I slide the shank into a holder I made by drilling a hole that just fits the shank in a scrap piece of aluminum bar stock, then cut a slot in one side with a hacksaw. Clamp the holder in the vice to make it squeeze down on the shank to hold it securely. Now chuck a wire brush in the Dremel, and clean the crud out. If it is just a bit clogged, a dental pick will do the job too. While it is securely mounted in the vice, break out the diamond hones and touch up the edges. Only takes a minute or two and makes it much more aggressive. It does not hurt to have spare bits, and sharpen them as a group. I wish I had a T&C grinder, but I get by with what I have. ------- Re: Cleaning Dremel accessories Posted by: "Greg Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz Date: Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:09 pm ((PDT)) How you clean depends on what sort of cutting tool you're using. - Sanding disks - throw them away. - diamond ... - you're using the wrong tools. - medium and coarse serration cutters - wire brush, even a Dremel wire brush. IOWs, you need coarser cutters if you're cutting grungy materials. Professional tool users put chalk on their files, etc. to stop the dross blocking up the cutting surfaces. Regards, Greg.P. ------- Re: Cleaning Dremel accessories Posted by: "Charles Fox" cafox513x~xxgte.net Date: Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:54 pm ((PDT)) This is helpful, but on another project. I was asking about grinding tools, not cutting. ------- Re: Cleaning Dremel accessories Posted by: "Greg Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz Date: Thu Jul 3, 2008 2:31 pm ((PDT)) Hi Charles: Uh-huh, by that I assume you mean the abrasive stone type accessories? The simple answer is that you can't use them on plastics and body filler, etc. because they will clog up and are then very difficult to clean! ;-) You can soak them in oil or a solvent that will loosen the ground gunk but not touch the adhesive that holds the grind-stone together. Good quality grinding stones will hold together, poor quality ones will fall apart. You can use a grind stone resurfacer. This is a serated wheel in a handle that you hold against the surface of a grindstone that removes a small layer of the stone. Unfortunately the Dremel grinders are only a small layer in total so you will end up with very small cleaned grinding bits. You need grinding tools with coarse teeth so that the resultant gunge a) falls out on it's own accord b) is easy to clean out with a screwdriver or wire brush. Of course, your grinding stones might be useful for finishing the resultant surface. The reason there are so many different types of bits (for Dremel) is because there are so many different materials. Regards, Greg.P. ------- Re: Cleaning Dremel accessories Posted by: "tracy Atkinson" tracy.atkinsonx~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Jul 8, 2008 8:45 am ((PDT)) My Dremel set came with a little cleaning tool for the stones. It is a little black square pied about an inch or so long which looks like lava stone with tiny bubbles. Works like a charm. Tracy Atkinson ------- NOTE TO FILE: As often happens, the next original conversation was about how to make a chuck backplate -- but the folks wandered off into a completely different discussion about lathe cleaning. And no one changed the subject title! After all the usual tips about how to meticulously clean up a lathe after nearly every use, Dick finally chipped in with his common sense perspective. To paraphrase: Clean as necessary, and do not clean unnecessarily. Or: Use your hobby time to make something. ------- Re: Craftsman 6" backplate for chuck [atlas_craftsman][lathe cleaning] Posted by: "rfmarchix~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:02 pm ((PST)) Guys... these machines don't need that kind of cleaning! Unless you are performing abrasive functions (tool post grinding, etc) ordinary chip only needs to be wiped or blown off the ways after each day's work. Run the cross feed and compound back and forth at the end of the day... blow ... wipe with a rag... oil... that's it! My first task as an apprentice was to clean a South Bend heavy 10" that had been running for half a century and only got cleaned when a new apprentice showed up. After I disassembled and washed down the headstock, carriage, cross slide, lead screw, etc with Varsol... the boss said I done pretty good, but that I hadn't cleaned the change gears yet. They hadn't been cleaned in 10 years, just had new grease added. While I'm a firm believer in cleanliness in a shop and religious lubrication, don't waste time disassembling your carriage and head. Instead, spend it making chips. Dick ------- Re: cleaning the carriage [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:53 pm ((PST)) I know that turning cast iron and turning wood will make a mess of fine abrasive dust, but turning steel should produce chips that are easy to wipe or pick out. Aluminum will produce long stringy chips that get wound around the tool and are sharp and hot. Keep a "swarf picker" handy and don't try to pull chips away with your bare hands they are often hot and sharp. Using a lathe is not the time for gloves either, a portion of a glove can be pulled in along with a finger. Always remember your Atlas is a tool that can cut steel and your flesh is a lot softer than steel. Sometimes you can set aluminum foil or even paper on the ways to prevent a lot of the stuff coming off the tool from settling on the ways or slides. Turning brass may make long chips or fine chips (there are a lot of brasses out there) If you get your stock from creative dumpster diving as I often do just be sure not to mistake magnesium for aluminum. Magnesium can ignite and make a fire that water nor many fire extinguishers will not quench. Way back in the late 1930's we would go to an auto wrecking yard and buy Ford horns. The ones from a Model A had a nice six volt D.C. motor to make the "OOGA" sound and the later ones had a magnesium disk that would make a fine display of fire when filings were used to start the disk burning. Connecting one of those six volt Model A horns to the house current (120 volts AC) would get the neighbors starting a petition to send you to some boarding school far away. There are surplus stores also where tooling can be found. I have a lot of HSS tooling that came from surplus stores and many can be used on your lantern tool post with an Armstrong tool holder. (I look at some I have picked up and wonder just what a tool ground in that way would be used for.) ------- Re: New guy in the shop - SCOTCHBRITE [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Ivan" hulagun66x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 6, 2009 1:22 pm ((PST)) I have posted a file to the group files section called Scotchbrite.pdf that explains the various Scotchbrite pad grits. Some have no grit and are used for cleaning aircraft exteriors. I bet this is the same white stuff they sell for scouring Teflon kitchen pans. The green kitchen pads are a step more abrasive and used for non-Teflon coated pans. I have a feeling they would be OK on steel lathe parts if you don't get crazy. I love Tri-Flow, it smells like a gun because that's what I first bought it for. But it really lubricates nicely! It's too expensive to use as a cleaner. WD40 is cheap and has a mild solvent which makes a good cleaner for some things. Use the Tri-Flow after the cleaning. Ivan in SF ------- Re: New guy in the shop - SCOTCHBRITE Posted by: "Bruce Freeman" freemab222x~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Feb 6, 2009 1:34 pm ((PST)) This caught my eye too. Some, at least, of the Scotch Brite pads definitely contain abrasive, and it's likely the abrasive is much harder than steel or cast iron. If any of these pads are plastic, only, then I can see preferring them to steel wool, but my inclination would be to use extremely fine steel wool, very gently. For rust on non-dimensional parts, soak in vinegar. Or mix vinegar and flour to a non-runny paste and wipe that on. Vinegar will dissolve the rust. Vinegar is not a very aggressive acid toward steel, and the residue will evaporate off. This might be suitable for dimensional parts too, but I won't vouch for that because I've never tried it on clean steel, watching for dimensional changes. Vinegar is not an oxidizing acid, so in principle should not dissolve metallic iron at all, but oxygen will dissolve into it and make it more corrosive. Don't mix chloride (e.g., table salt) into the vinegar as that makes it much more aggressive. ------- Re: New guy in the shop - SCOTCHBRITE Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" Date: Fri Feb 6, 2009 8:17 pm ((PST)) The traditional Scotch-Brite pads DO CONTAIN abrasive. The whole idea is this non-woven pad, with encapsulated grit stuck to the fibers. It stays, and scours like scouring powder, without wearing out as fast as steel wool. I know, I saw the stuff almost before it was out for sale; my father (still) works for 3M. That said, the concentration of grit is generally so low that you would be unable to remove serious material with it unless you used power, and even then you mostly just "polish corners". Yes there is no-grit material also. It does very little to rust. JT ------- NOTE TO FILE: In this conversation folks were talking about cleaning up some light surface rust. For severe rusting that cannot be handled by simple cleaning methods, see the file on this site called Rust Removal. ------- Referb [Metal_Shapers] Posted by: "Patrick Ramsey" 1911x~xxVERIZON.NET Date: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:28 pm ((PDT)) I just got a shaper home and now need to make her good as new. Is there a way to remove the lovely brown patina? ------- Re: Referb Posted by: "Marty Escarcega" escarcegax~xxcox.net Date: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:30 am ((PDT)) May I suggest ZEP Purple Degreaser. You can buy it at Home Depot in the Janatorial section. About $8 a gallon. Buy one of the ZEP spray bottles for it too. Buy and wear gloves and eye protection. The main ingredient is LYE. Do not spray on aluminum parts. Will eat the brown oil based goo. Try it in a small spot first. Rinse off with water and then blow dry. Marty ------- Re: Referb Posted by: "Toolman84x~xxJuno.com" Date: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:21 am ((PDT)) That ZEP purple is good stuff, you can also get it at your local auto parts store but I think it has a different name there. One serious warning, buy a second spray bottle and put Vinegar it it, the regular kitchen stuff is fine. If you get the degreaser on your skin you cannot wash it off! it has to be neutralized! Your skin will feel oily and slippery when you get it on you, that is the lye pulling your body fat out, a couple of squirts of vinegar instantly takes care of it. Don't be put off by this warning, I use the stuff all the time when cleaning my greasy parts. It works great, just be safe. Dan Aurora OR ------- Re: Referb Posted by: "Joe R" jromasx~xxcolumbus.rr.com Date: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:43 am ((PDT)) ZEP is good stuff but keep it from Aluminum and Zamac (Zink) parts. I use ZEP but also use "ProForce Heavy duty degreaser" from Sam's Club that's almost as good as ZEP without harming aluminum. Saturday I used it in my ultrasonic cleaner on my "new" 7B vice I got from another group member. It took off 60 years of grunge. Joe R. ------- Naptha solvent for cleaning ? [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "dougrl3" dougrl3x~xxaol.com Date: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:17 am ((PDT)) Has anyone used Naptha to clean off old grease and oil from their lathe? If so, how were the results? Also, would it be safe to use on the gears since they are not steel ? Thanks ------- Re: Naptha solvent for cleaning ? Posted by: "Bruce Freeman" freemab222x~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:41 am ((PDT)) I used kerosene, which is a lower-boiling petroleum fraction than naphtha, but probably otherwise comparable. It worked well, especially when I used a small brass-bristled brush to scour. I found I could do this without damaging the paint. Assuming the gears are metal, naphtha won't harm them. Be aware that it may remove and displace all lubricants, so be extra thorough in lubricating all moving parts the first few days (uses) after cleaning with naphtha. You want to displace residual naphtha with lubricants. Naphtha will provide some minimal lubrication, but can't be counted on. Bruce NJ ------- Re: Naptha solvent for cleaning ? Posted by: "Mrs Leon Robinson" leon-robinsonx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:58 am ((PDT)) Be careful to provide plenty of fresh air, the fumes are nasty. Leon K5JLR ------- Re: Naptha solvent for cleaning ? Posted by: "moondogt120" moondogt120x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:12 pm ((PDT)) I have used Naptha for years as a painting contractor. As far as its cleaning ability it ranks somewhere in the middle. As far as solvents are concerned the bottom ranking is mineral spirits, it is the least corrosive and is mildly oily but nothing like kerosene. Next on the list is naptha, it cleans oily parts nicely, but has no oily qualities and any parts that require lubrication should be oiled immediately. It won't remove paint from parts but may dull alkyd painted items. Added to alkyd or oil paint will speed up the drying time. It is my favorite cleaning solvent and gasses off (drys) quickly, but it penetrates quickly and deeply into any assembled parts, and will dilute any oil film that it comes into contact with. Next in line is lacquer thinner. This one removes paint and goes deep into cast metal. I like this before bead blasting my motorcycle parts, but don't let it touch your finished painted parts. Mike ------- Re: Naptha solvent for cleaning ? Posted by: "mondosmetals" mondosmetalsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:35 pm ((PDT)) Naptha is a great degreaser for any metal parts, if you like to live dangerously! Use only in well ventilated areas, and do not use near sparks or open flame. How one defines "near" I do not know. Naptha is extremely flammable, not unlike gasoline. To put this into perspective naptha is a primary feedstock for production of high octane gasoline. Naptha is also extremely volatile, meaning it vaporizes very easily. As with most volatile organic solvents inhalation of the vapor is to be avoided. One of the effects of concentrated exposure is the dissolution of the membrane covering of the spinal column which can result in paralasis and death. MEK, Methyl Ethyl Ketone is another great degreaser with similar dangers. I maintain a quart can in my cabinet for small cleaning jobs that must be quickly dried, or to clean small areas of especially sticky substances or removing paint from localized areas, but always out doors or near the open garage door. Nasty stuff. Kerosene is still my preferred degreaser. Flammable, yes, but not explosive and a whole lot safer to handle. I can soak parts in a 2 gallon pail of kero for several days and not be too concerned about explosion or inhalation hazards. But I avoid naptha. raymond ------- Re: AMMCo restoration continues [Metal_Shapers] Posted by: "revgo1898" revgo1898x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:52 am ((PDT)) In Metal_Shapersx~xxyahoogroups.com, "debrular2004" wrote: > I have Simple Green with great success. It is easier to use and just as effective. Cheaper too. John < Check this story re: welding after using brake cleaner. http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm ------- NOTE TO FILE: Following is a link to a website detailing one person's terrible health experience with brake cleaner. After reading this, I'm not going to use brake cleaner or any other product containing tetrachloroethylene, also called tetrachloroethene, ever again. There are safer products, but in truth there are very few totally safe products. Always read the product label before use, and if in any doubt about the instructions or safety warnings, look up the ingredients on the internet; you can also ask any manufacturer for the product's MSDS -- Material Safety Data Sheet -- which they must provide. http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm ------- NOTE TO FILE: There was a brief discussion about various powdered cleaning products that might be used to clean machine sliding surfaces of any roughness to reduce friction. It is notable that Bon Ami is the product recommended by Taig to initially set up their lathe bed/carriage sliding fit, and it should then be completely removed. ------- Cleansers as abrasives... [taigtools] Posted by: "mbonfire2002" mbonfirex~xxhotmail.com Date: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:01 am ((PST)) Bon Ami is often considered "safer" for mild abrasive work than other cleansers because it is made from calcite and feldspar rather than silica containing minerals. Message is that all cleansers may not contain the same abrasives, some harder/sharper/more aggressive than others. The worry when using on machine tools is that the abrasive gets embedded in the bearing surfaces and continues to wear the surfaces. ------- Re: Cleaning lathe bed Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Jun 3, 2010 3:37 pm ((PDT)) On Tue, Jun 1, 2010, Wayne Brandon wrote: > Mineral spirits has been suggested and is a good place to start. I use kerosene for cleaning clock mainsprings as it seems to cut old hardened oil/grease so I have it on hand and use it to clean my lathe bed. I then lube the bed and leadscrews with Super-lube. < Hi Wayne, And if you happen to have some stuff that kerosene/mineral spirits don't deal with (I'm in the process of cleaning up an Atlas 12x36 I just bought) then I found that acetone does a decent job. I had some really old oil that had formed a solid deposit on some of my shafts, and kerosene didn't seem to touch it. Acetone made it come right off. Dave Hylands Shuswap, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Re: Cleaning lathe bed Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jun 3, 2010 7:27 pm ((PDT)) Remember, take it outside, wear rubber gloves, safety glasses and do not smoke. DanD. ------- Re: Cleaning lathe bed Posted by: "Gerald Feldman" gfeldman2904x~xxpacbell.net Date: Thu Jun 3, 2010 10:53 pm ((PDT)) Excellent advice DanD. However, the choice of rubber glove (latex, nitrile, neoprene, etc) will depend upon the specific solvent being handled. See http://www.ehs.ufl.edu/Lab/CHP/gloves.htm or http://www.chem.duke.edu/safety/glove.html for more information. Jerry F. ------- The rust is gone Now? [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Clem" cwixtedx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 am ((PST)) I was fortunate to get a 12 X 36 A/C Lathe last year that is like new except for the paint. All of the gears are like new and everything works smoothly and it sounds like a sewing machine when it is running. However, it does a lousy job of sewing. [:)] I have yet to turn anything on it, mostly because I have never run a metal lathe. I'm working on that. I am now going through the lathe to clean out the old oil and crud and figuring out how everything works. I'm very familiar with wood lathes so the metal lathe will be a little easier to figure out. There was a (very) little surface rust in a few places on the ways. The rust came off easily with some oil and a green scrub pad. Now there is some discoloration where the rust was. Will more rubbing get the color out or is there some "bleach" type solution to remove it? Thanks, Clem ------- Re: The rust is gone Now? Posted by: "ahz" ahzx~xxinsightbb.com Date: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:09 am ((PST)) Do not let chlorine anywhere near your tools. It causes rust. Use your lathe! The discoloration will get covered in swarf and oil and not be visible! ------- Re: The rust is gone Now? Posted by: "Bruce Freeman" freemab222x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:10 am ((PST)) Try oxalic acid. This is available in some paint stores, sometimes sold as "wood bleach". It is also a component of "Bar Keepers Friend" -- a non-abrasive cleanser (sold in a cylindrical box like bathroom cleanser). Use it with water. Oxalic acid gloms onto the iron rust and dissolves it into water. Access is key, here. If it can't get to the rust, it can't remove it. But it will penetrate pores a bit, so it can work on stained tiles, etc. The action is not instantaneous, but a few minutes contact will probably suffice. Please be aware that oxalic acid is poisonous to eat, so discard the rinse water down the drain, and away from where someone or something might ingest them. Also, oxalic acid can promote rusting if it is not thoroughly removed, so rinse well. As an "acid" it is not really a problem, as it's fairly weak as an acid, but protect your hands with gloves anyway and you might consider neutralizing after rinsing with a dilute solution of baking soda. (Don't use ammonia on metal as it tends to be corrosive.) ------- Re: The rust is gone Now? Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:52 am ((PST)) The discoleration won't hurt anything and there is a good chance almost anything you use to remove it will cause harm sometime down the road. Time and elbow grease will blend it to a single color again. Keep it oiled and use it :) ------- Re: The rust is gone Now? Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.com Date: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:11 am ((PST)) As to rust from ammonia. No bad experience in many uses. Down in photos, "clocks" I show a antique movement that I used ammonia to free stuck shafts from hardened oil. I cleaned the surface with mineral spirits and a art brush which got most of the dirt and surface oil off but the hardened stuff in the bearings did not budge. I tested various solvents and detergents on a scrap gear/shaft. Ammonia did the trick quickly and the steel did not rust after. I did the clock movement 20 mins in a bowl, one end, then the other end. Pic is shown after the first end was dipped. The clock has been running about 2 years, nearly perfect operation for a 100 year old movement. I also did my change gears in ammonia. Cleaned the oil off with mineral spirits, then put half the gears at a time in a bowl of ammonia, in the microwave long enough to make it fizz, then rinse in water and dry with a hair dryer. Again, I tested ammonia on zamak using scrap half nuts overnight. No harm. When in doubt, test it out. Worth note: ammonia is a gas dissolved in water. When it evaporates, there is nothing left. No residue. Acids 'tickle' steel to rust. Bases do not. Just sharing my experience. chart ------- Re: The rust is gone Now? Posted by: "Dave Beckstrom" dbeckx~xxatving.com Date: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:42 pm ((PST)) The auto parts stores like autozone and pep boys carry a product called EVAPORUST. This stuff is amazing. Anything you soak in it comes out with all the rust gone and looking almost like new. I had a hydraulic tubing bender that had a lot of rust on it. I poured evaporust on it, then laid down paper towels and soaked them in more evaporust. I wanted something to keep it wet for a long time and I figured wet toweling would do it. Next day, all the rust was gone. Amazing product. I liked it so much I bought 2 gallons. You can use it for reclaiming old tools and such. Highly recommend it. Oh...and it doesn't hurt the metal. Doesn't remove any metal. The only thing I've heard is you don't want to leave plated tools in it for too long as it messes up the finish on the plating. I used it it on my mill table with great results. ------- NOTE TO FILE: For much more information on Rust Removal, see the file here with that name. ------- Re: Intro and How Not to Degrease [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Richard Schaal" rschaal_95135x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:13 pm ((PDT)) Seems to me, I've seen negative commentary regarding using scotchbrite on the sensitive parts of the lathe. It was, iirc, akin to using sandpaper. Somebody correct my recollection!? Was steel wool better? Richard ------- Re: Intro and How Not to Degrease Posted by: "toolmaker48" toolmaker48x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:42 pm ((PDT)) Hi Richard, 3M makes a lot of different 'Scotchbrite' products. Some would take the hide off a buffalo, others have no 'cutting' qualities whatsoever. I don't believe that the scotchbrite pads you buy in the supermarket are the same as you get from an industrial distributor. One has abrasive bonded to it, the other does not although the fiber and colors may be the same. Museums recommend using the industrial 'maroon' grade with naptha, paint thinner or kerosene to stip rust off old tools and machines because it doesn't alter the tool marks left by the original machining process. Take it from there. Robert ------- Re: Intro and How Not to Degrease Posted by: "mertnedp" pdentremx~xxforterie.com Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:05 pm ((PDT)) At work we use Green, Maroon and White. White has NO grit. It buffs like 5 0 steel wool. Green acts like 300 - 400 grit sand paper and the Maroon is more like 120 grit. For example in cleaning up the rolls on the rolling mills we use the Green and get a nice shiny surface. ------- Re: Intro and How Not to Degrease Posted by: "mark.schooley" mark.schooleyx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:42 pm ((PDT)) I have a parts cleaning tank that I got from Harbor Freight. I have it filled with odorless mineral spirits and let parts soak overnight. In the morning it only takes a couple swipes with a parts cleaning brush to get all the grease, oil and other crud off. Parts are cleaner than the day they left the factory. A quick spritz of WD40 to prevent rust and everything is ready to reassemble. ------- Re: Intro and How Not to Degrease Posted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.com Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:57 pm ((PDT)) I'd use maroon Scotchbrite on broad surfaces that don't have fine markings or bluing on them. Scotchbrite pads have aluminum oxide (corundum/garnet) embedded in the plastic. I have wrecked the bluing on weapons and damaged the coating on Teflon-coated pans using Scotchbrite, which is too aggressive for these uses. If you're derusting castings, you might as well get out the Scotchbrite, unless you think you might discover fine markings under whatever you're taking off. When I restored my shaper, I led with electrolysis for de-rusting and de-painting, then scraped and Scotchbrited after that. For the fine stuff (where I was concerned about scratching off fine markings and inscriptions), I used steel wool. W ------- Re: Intro and How Not to Degrease Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:36 pm ((PDT)) Here is a link to a .pdf file outlining the various grits available and what can be expected. I like the XF Gray 7448 pads myself. Scotch-Brite Hand Finishing Systems - Flyer (PDF 2.2 MB) [Paste 2 lines together into browser with no space] http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSu7zK1fslxtU4x_Gn 8_9ev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=61-5002-8008-8.PDF Dan ------- scotch-brite pads FWIW [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "toolmaker48" toolmaker48x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:23 am ((PDT)) Hi everyone, I contacted 3M co. regarding their Scotch-Brite pads. My question and their reply are as follows: mailmessage = Do scotch-brite home cleaning products contain the same abrasives as industrial scotch-brite surface conditioning products? Or is the only similarity in the fiber material? Scotch-Brite for home cleaning contains less abrasive minerals than most industrial Scotch-Brite items. We suggest the industrial pads to condition a surface, rather than clean. Colors also are different - Industrial has no green colored pads. Robert ------- Taper Mate [sherline] Posted by: "Curt Givens" giveadurnx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am ((PST)) All the discussion about the 0MT in the tail stock revived a vague memory of something called a Taper Mate. Basically a poly(something)ene looks a little like a reamer that will clean out a MT without damage. They're marked to wood workers and from some of the sizes I've found maybe even to machine shops. Anyway the smallest I've found listed is for a#1MT. Don't think any of the listings were for the maker and I'd like to find out if they make a #0MT. I'd like to have one of each for my machines. So far I've found gun cleaning mops and isopropl alcohol seem to work. Have a happy Thanksgiving all, Curt ------- Re: Taper Mate Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:57 am ((PST)) You mean one of these things? http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Shop___Safety___Shop_Sup plies___Taper_Mate___taper_mate?Args= That's kind of neat... I've been using a little toothbrush, with a rubber back surface for this sort of work, but now I'm tempted to make something a little nicer. I bet I could cast one in MT0 using a hot glue gun. ------- Re: Taper Mate Posted by: "Curt Givens" giveadurnx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:13 pm ((PST)) Yep, that's the thing. I've thought about getting one of those 0MT reamers that one of the guys mentioned and using it for a mold to cast a plastic version. Might just add to my knowledge base ;>) Curt ------- Re: Taper Mate Posted by: "ED MAISEY" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:12 pm ((PST)) Curt, just turn up a wooden taper undersize and glue a nice piece of shamy around it of course it has to fit the taper other wise it won't work hence making the wooden plug smaller, Edmund ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Guenther Paul" paulguenterx~xxatt.net Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 1:01 pm ((PST)) I use a air hose and run the Lathe so the lead screw turns. Sometimes i use brake cleaner; it works about the best and it dries fast. GP ------- SAFETY NOTE TO FILE: There are basically two types of brake cleaner; one has some nasty stuff that should be avoided or at least used outside only; some newer formulas are safer. An alternative is ignition cleaner. But any aerosol product should only be used when wearing eye and skin protection and with good ventilation; good chemical-filtering masks should be worn if they are capable of protecting the wearer from a particular hazard. Sometimes a better alternative is a breathing system where air is provided to the wearer from an air tank, or through a hose with fresh air piped in from outside the building. Following is a link to a website detailing one person's terrible health experience with brake cleaner. After reading this, I'm not going to use brake cleaner or any other product containing tetrachloroethylene, also called tetrachloroethene, ever again. There are safer products, but in truth there are very few totally safe products. Always read the product label before use, and if in any doubt about the instructions or safety warnings, look up the ingredients on the internet; you can also ask any manufacturer for the product's MSDS -- Material Safety Data Sheet -- which they must provide. http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm And yes I repeated the warning from earlier in this file. It's a very important safety subject that should never be forgotten or ignored. ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique Posted by: "Deloid" deloidx~xxcableone.net Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 1:12 pm ((PST)) Rick Sparber wrote: > I use toilet paper for shop rags. I also use WD-40 as a cleaner - > spray it on and wipe it dry right away. On the spindle threads I > sometimes spray with WD-40, knock off any swarf with a toothbrush, > and then dry with TP. Hi Rick, Probably not an issue because of the size but WD-40 is hateful stuff. It dries and creates a film that is difficult to remove if you ever really wanted to "clean" parts. WD-40 on clocks ruins a batch of expensive ultrasonic cleaning solutions. It has cost me lots of time and money. There are so many good quality lubricants out there that are easily cleaned off...WD-40 isn't even a lubricant. ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique Posted by: "rburkheimer" burkheimerx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 1:23 pm ((PST)) +1 on WD40. It's good solvent, but don't leave it on surfaces. for rotating threads - spindle or leadscrew, a piece of heavy cotton twine is the ticket. Don't wrap it around your finger though =:0 ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:11 pm ((PST)) Amen ....wife decided antique German mantle clock needed lube ...WD 40... ugh ... started running better for a short while, till it evaporated & left "glue". now it sits silent... best wishes docn8as ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique Posted by: "chuck" Chuckx~xxWildRice.com Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:02 pm ((PST)) Dental Floss for Spindles? :) Good idea. Perhaps a pipe cleaner, if they still make them. Toilet paper Rick? The threads on my spindle are quite sharp. Doesn't that rip the paper to shreds? Chuck ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:26 pm ((PST)) The key is to wipe the stuff off right after applying it. Don't let it sit there and evaporate. I know some people mix WD-40 with cutting oil and use it on steel. I just use straight WD-40 on AL and it works well. Rick [some of Rick's later comments follow here] I use cotton twine in the kitchen to clean the spindle on the bread machine. Never thought about using it in the shop. Great idea! It is a rare day that I meet someone that doesn't think WD-40 is a lubricant. I tell them it is really an adhesive. Yet it is also a decent cutting fluid for AL and a decent degreaser as long as you wipe it up right away. Chuck, Give the toilet paper a try. If it doesn't work for you, it is no big loss. I have cloth shop rags and rarely use them. Use TP all the time in the shop. I do get some odd looks from visitors having a TP roll with holder next to my lathe and mill. Cheap TP will fall apart but the better stuff is rather strong. ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique Posted by: "n2irz" baysale976x~xxoptimum.net Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 5:27 pm ((PST)) The problem with cloth is that it doesn't rip easily, so you have some risks if the cloth gets away from you -- wraps around things, or worse. Paper is a lot more friendly and safe. TP is very inexpensive, super- absorbent, and comes on handy rolls. Paper towels are an alternative, but can be more expensive. For solvents, it's hard to beat 91% isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol. Don ------- NOTE TO FILE: I have used isopropyl alcohol for cleaning off grease and permanent markers and all sorts of things. Hereabouts I can find it in pharmacies in strengths of 70%, 91%, and 99%. The stronger solutions with less water do work better. Remember to put the cap back on the bottle promptly, or it absorbs water moisture from the air and becomes weaker. ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 6:08 pm ((PST)) Blue lint-free shop towels...... cheap on sale. First use semi-clean stuff, then they "graduate" to dirtier jobs, and finally for wiping up grease, etc. I use very few. For the lathe, cut them in quarters.... several at a time. That way they are "right sized" for way-wiping, etc. Your denatured alsohol will have water in it soon enough.... it sucks water out of the air even. Water is a fact, get used to it. I wash machine parts IN water, it does not cause problems. JT ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 6:25 pm ((PST)) I use water all the time. Simple Green for most and purple stuff for old baked-on grease/dirt. Yes all alcohol will absorb water. One of my problems with ethanol added to gas. Once they added it above 10% here and my driveway got filled with riding mowers for me to fix due to carbs full of water ;). My denatured alcohol is kept in a sealed container. Used mostly as a final degreaser. A you said, WD-40 seems to vary by region. The MSDS linked by mine said mineral oil the the "petrolium solvent" was the same description as kerosene. Mineral was supposedly from shale oil, technically a petroleum product. Scott G. Henion Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 ------- Re: Proper lathe cleaning technique Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:25 pm ((PST)) Best PIPE CLEANERS I have found. BJ Long 100% cotton tapered or Jumbo pipe cleaners. http://www.marscigars.com/bjlongtaperedpipecleaners.aspx I use them all the time for cleaning very small items, gun actions, etc. Used to be about $1.25 a pack of 100, but now double that. Dan ------- NOTE TO FILE: This conversation continued; see Yahoo's atlas_craftsman if you want to read more in this particular thread. ------- Steam cleaning [taigtools] Posted by: "DennisF MacIntyre" a1g2r3ix~xxyahoo.ca Date: Sat Jun 9, 2012 7:30 pm ((PDT)) Shawn Woolley wrote: > Gasket Material - " as I also used it to mount some rigid tubing > connected to my steam cleaning system to add a steam jet in my > large sink so I could quit getting water everywhere. " Shawn Will you please tell us more about your steam cleaning system. In my time in the army, RCEME, and time working in industry, I made extensive use of Steam Jennie's. What make, size and capacity is your system? What is your heat source? Does it use a soap? I have always enjoyed how well it did clean; and then, the parts being hot would dry quickly. keep smiling dennis mac ------- Re: Steam cleaning Posted by: "Shawn Woolley" shawnwoolleyx~xxmac.com Date: Sat Jun 9, 2012 8:04 pm ((PDT)) Sure - I love my steam generator it's one of my most used tools. I bought a SteamMaster model because there kind of the gold standard for jewelry makers so it's easy to get parts and support for if you need it. I'm not sure what you mean by does it use soap but the answer is no it only uses steam. They make a special soap that you add to the tank that is a heavy alkaloid to remove rust if you get any (and you will); these all have a steel tank and they rust it seems like overnight if they are not topped off with water. Air really allows rust to build up fast the rust doesn't hurt anything it's just ugly and block's your view in the site tube and if it's bad enough it can flake off and jam the nozzle. I have a set routine where I fill mine every afternoon as part of my shutdown for my shop and it's almost three years old and still working great. They won't rust if there always kept full (no air). I love the foot switch also so you can concentrate on holding your piece in the right place and keeping your fingers out of the way because steam burns really hurt! Otto Frei carries them and their website has some good basic info so I added a link. They're expensive. I found mine for $1050.00 on a sale but that was a few years ago there about $1200 now. Like most tools though, quality really counts on steamers; cheap ones just don't work and end up spraying as much water as steam but once you use a good steamer you're hooked. My steamer and my glass bead blaster save me hours of work cleaning and sanding every day. http://www.ottofrei.com/store/Steamaster-Steamer-2-Gallon-HPJ-2S.html Specifications: STEAMASTER HPJ-2S 2 GAL CAPACITY, 110V, 1 PH, 60 HZ creates 60 to 70 p.s.i of steam foot switch control and neon light indication of all function also has a glass site tube so you can see water level Size (WxDxH): 6-3/4"W x 16-3/4"L x 17-1/2"H (24-1/2"high overall) Weight (Lbs): 86 Lbs. ------- Re: Steam cleaning Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Sat Jun 9, 2012 9:22 pm ((PDT)) I used to sell and I still have a Steam Dragon. I about choked when I saw the current price. I think I sold them for around $175 when I closed up shop in 1999. They are now $595. They are good for casual use. Three or four 30 second blasts and a short rest period. They are an on demand cleaner; the heat element stays hot and when you hit the petal the water is pumped into the element and out the nozzle. The heat element is cooled down, and needs some recovery time. It is a 120V machine. This is usually all you need for small parts. Clean them in the ultrasonic first, then steam to five a final rinse and the heat will quickly dry off any moisture. Make sure you have a catch for what is blasted off the parts. It can get ugly if you don't. Some of the older versions were miniature boilers. They maintained a high pressure and high temperature. Lots of heavy duty plumbing and expensive to run. One word of caution on them. You must use distilled water. Using tap water, or even bottled water that isn't distilled will very soon clog them up beyond repair. I found a dealer on Google, National Jewelers Supplies. http://www.nationaljewelerssupplies.com/p/24970.html I know nothing about this company, but they handle most all of the major suppliers I used to handle. Don ------- Re: Steam cleaning Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:53 pm ((PDT)) My mother used to have a machine like this about 15 years ago: http://www.shopxscargo.com/product_catalogue/cat_product_det ails.asp?category_id=1&product_code=18054&sub_category_1_id=1&cat egory=Cleaning%20&%20Vacuums As I recall I was unimpressed with it as a household cleaning machine, because it only provided short bursts of steam, and needed several seconds at a time to recharge, and it needed very frequent disassembly and cleaning (which I now know was from the use of tap water...) Anyway, has anyone here tried using a machine like that for spot- degreasing parts? They are now available cheaply enough that I could see having a couple of them on the bench to get around the re-charge time by switching steam guns... ------- Re: Steam cleaning Posted by: "Shawn Woolley" shawnwoolleyx~xxmac.com Date: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:36 pm ((PDT)) Yeah I have one similar to that since I thought it would be cool to have something portable to work on larger sculptures etc. They do work but they are very weak with almost no pressure to speak of with the steam. They might work on light duty cleaning but they will not do the same kind of final cleaning you can do with a commercial steamer. But if you're just degreasing parts then it might be fine; you're not cleaning gold or diamonds in jewelry so very different needs I would imagine. ------- NOTE TO FILE: Here's a quote from Wiki on the spelling of a word that still confounds and perplexes me, as no matter how I write it, it always looks wrong to me. Constantly reading stuff from all over the world where learned folks are using their different spelling variations (properly for their particular piece of the planet) just makes matters worse. "The word jewellery itself is derived from the word jewel, which was anglicized from the Old French "jouel", and beyond that, to the Latin word 'jocale', meaning plaything. In British English the spelling can be written as jewelery or jewellery, while in U.S. English the spelling jewelry." So three official spellings. Now they all look wrong ;-) ------- Parts Cleaning [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "Thomas D. Dean" tomdeanx~xxspeakeasy.org Date: Sun Jun 9, 2013 7:18 pm ((PDT)) Sorry if this is too far off topic. I am a newbie. I work mostly with aluminum and mild steel. My shop is in the basement. I have been using CRC Brakleen non-clorinated aerosol. Seems to work Ok. However, the MSDS says it is not compatible with aluminum. Is this a problem? What should I use? I do not have an area for a parts cleaner, so, I want to stay with an aerosol and clean outside. I use a shop vac to clean up chips. Compressed air is not an option in the shop because of other equipment. Tom Dean ------- Re: Parts Cleaning Posted by: "bruce_e_layne" yahoogroupsx~xxthinkingdevices.com Date: Sun Jun 9, 2013 10:48 pm ((PDT)) Just to be absolutely sure... we're talking about cleaning aluminum parts you make on your Sherline, and not cleaning the aluminum parts ON your Sherline? If the latter, my comments below don't apply. If I want to remove oil from parts, as a prelude to painting, bonding with epoxy or some other adhesive, etc., I'll usually use 90% isopropyl alcohol. This is the more concentrated version of rubbing alcohol found in the pharmacy aisle of the local grocery store or Walmart. It's cheap, and it's a very good degreaser. If there are threads or other texture or detail, of if the contaminate is more tenacious than oil or grease, I'll use a toothbrush to scrub the surface. I put a spray head on the quart alcohol bottle. I'll generally finish with a spray alcohol rinse to wash away the dislodged oil. Isopropyl alcohol has several advantages over other solvents. I think it's less toxic than most solvents (although not completely harmless). As I mentioned already, it's cheap. When you buy it, you aren't assumed to be a meth addict as is now the case when buying acetone. The acetone that we buy in retail stores has almost always been recovered from industrial processes and distilled, but it still retains trace amounts of oil that will remain on your part after the acetone is clean, so if you want it REALLY clean and oil free, use a purer solvent such as isopropyl alcohol. Don't leave isopropyl soaked rags in a trash can where an ignition source may be present later. Alcohol can burn with a nearly invisible flame so you might not know you set your trash can on fire. If I'm going to use more than an ounce or two of alcohol, I'll go outside to keep the fumes out of the house. It's not as smelly as acetone, but I still don't like breathing a lot of it. Another option is to keep a clean wide mouth jar for parts cleaning. Toss your oily parts in with an ounce of alcohol and swirl or tumble to degrease the parts. Dump it down the drain and repeat if you want them very clean. I wouldn't dump acetone down the drain, but alcohol mixes with water and is thus quickly diluted, and it's not very toxic. Using the jar will keep a lot of the alcohol smell out of the house, as opposed to spraying the alcohol on the parts and letting it drip into a trash can. Wiping the excess oil off the parts with a blue lint free shop towel before solvent cleaning will conserve solvent and keep most of the oil out of the waste water system. ------- Re: Parts Cleaning Posted by: "Thomas D. Dean" tomdeanx~xxspeakeasy.org Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:56 am ((PDT)) I am talking about cleaning parts I make. To get most of the oil and adhering chips off. Clean out a bottoming hole prior to tap, etc. I have not thought much about painting. I did not think of alcohol Now, I just go outside, behind the shed and spray the part and let it air dry. The ground is covered with 3/4 minus and no vegetation wanted! I think alcohol is better, if I do not need lots of velocity to remove cutting oil, chips, etc. Thanks. ------- Re: Parts Cleaning Posted by: "Stan Stocker" skstockerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:16 am ((PDT)) Hi Tom, I can't recommend any spray can product over another, although the red can brake cleaners have never attacked aluminum in my experience. If you are cleaning swarf and oil from machined parts a coffee can 3/4 full of kerosene is pretty cheap, small, and quite effective. If you dislike the smell there is deodorized mineral spirits. Given the cost of spray cans of cleaner, either option will save some money and let you just plop the parts in the can and do other things while they soak. Parts baskets can be made from screen. After a while the bottom of the can will be getting loaded up with grunge, so just pour the clear liquid off the top and add some fresh. Hot soapy water may be old fashioned, but it will do the job too. Works best if you have a scrub sink you don't mind getting dirty. If you do this one have a piece of screen over the drain, a trap jammed with swarf would not be a fun thing to clean out. Any of these could work outside, although lugging pails of hot and rinse water might get old :-) Take care, Stan ------- Re: Parts Cleaning Posted by: "bruce_e_layne" yahoogroupsx~xxthinkingdevices.com Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:43 pm ((PDT)) Stan Stocker wrote: > Hot soapy water may be old fashioned, but it will do the job too. I started using small stainless pins and soapy water in a rotary tumbler to clean brass as a prelude to reloading (remanufacturing) ammunition (plenty of YouTube videos and online forums describing the technique), but I now use this cleaning process for some of my machined parts as well. I recently made almost 100 custom aluminum angle brackets for a laser I'm building. They're made from 1/8" wall aluminum angle chopped to length, the ends were fly cut on the milling machine to square them up and produce the precise length, and there were eight holes drilled in each part. I tossed them in the 2 gallon container with ten pounds of stainless pins and soapy water and tumbled them overnight to produce some gorgeous parts. The edges were were gently rounded over, light milling marks were removed, and the grungy finish from extruding the aluminum and then storing it at a steel supplier was cleaned away to produce shiny aluminum. A friend owns a high tech machine building business. I caught one of the guys in the shop tediously hand deburring a bucket of sensor brackets they had made. I took them home and tumbled them overnight with the same great effortless results. The process can be scaled down. I've been collecting plastic wide mouthed containers in one quart and five quart sizes from my wife's recent addiction to peanut butter filled pretzels. I'll probably use those containers for small parts on the rotary tumbler - one container for alcohol cleaning, another for tumble cleaning deburring and polishing, another for black oxide (or cold bluing) steel parts, etc. ------- Re: Parts Cleaning Posted by: "Tom Wade" tomx~xxwade.name arcmaster3 Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:50 am ((PDT)) Here's a warning about using brake cleaner to wash parts.... http://tomwade.me/motorcycles/phosgene.php Tom Wade ------- Re: Parts Cleaning Posted by: "Thomas D. Dean" tomdeanx~xxspeakeasy.org Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:42 pm ((PDT)) I have a deep sink in the area. No hot water, but, the pipe is 6 foot away... A plastic tub and an existing SS strainer. Now, I know why the handle broke off it this week! Mineral spirits and/or kerosene for hard things. Thanks all. Tom Dean ------- questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Kurt Bjorling" kbx~xxmuziker.org kbjorling Date: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:29 pm ((PDT)) Greetings, All fo you, I am a new subscriber to this group. I have already found interesting and useful information and opinions here, but I also find it difficult to effectively search topics and content. Perhaps further experience will yield increasing success.) Answers to my questions may already be in the collected material here, but I cannot find them. If anyone knows of an existing source, please direct me to the appropriate places. I have used my first machine lathe, a 6" Craftsman (Atlas 618), for the last 4 or 5 years, learning as I go, with several enjoyable and successful efforts so far. I bought it for one very specific purpose, but the friend and mentor who helped me with buying it told me that once I had it for a while I would wonder how I ever lived without it. He was completely correct. He also told me that eventually I would want a larger lathe. In this he was also correct. In the musical instrument repair shop where we both work there is a 12", 54" bed Craftsman/Atlas lathe (the 1940s-early 50s curvy model, not the later more angular/square one). Each time I use it, even for small jobs, I notice how solid it feels and how smoothly it runs. Though I have a special affection for my little 618, my work on the much larger machine always leaves me thinking I would prefer to have one of these solid, sturdy machines. As a result I have just purchased an old 10" Atlas (54" bed). I think it is sound and not very worn, but it is very dirty. It has sat unused for more than 20 years and many surfaces are covered in a greasy grime. My questions: 1. Are there recommendations as to cleaners and or solvents to use (or avoid!) and methods for cleaning this old machine? 2. What parts, if any, should be replaced immediately? I have seen discussions suggesting the replacement of the felt pads/wipers on the apron/cross-slide arms. Anything else? 3. The original installation instructions for these old lathes recommend fastening them to a thick wooden surface, but I seldom see lathes installed that way today. Usual they are on all-metal benches or frames, sometimes with the metal surface topped with a thin sheet of wood, fiberboard, or hardboard. Is a thick wood base no longer recommended, or? My thinks to whatever advice or suggestion anyone can offer! Kurt Bjorling, Evanston, Illinois ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: cliveadams23x~xxaol.com cliveadams79 Date: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:48 pm ((PDT)) Everyone has his own favourite way of cleaning old machines; having restored a few old lathes and shapers I prefer to strip everything down to component level (keeping everything in groups so I know where they go back ...) then soak the large lumps in diesel to penetrate and loosen the grease. Not necessarily immerse them, (the only place I have big enough to immerse a 54" lathe bed is in the bath, and She Who Must Be Obeyed won't allow that . . . ) just brush it on and keep brushing it on and scrubbing at intervals. Then a strong, hot solution of washing soda to remove everything, a pressure wash to get the last bits and blow dry with compressed air. It's a messy job and you'll stink of diesel for weeks, but some wives find that attractive. Mine doesn't ... If you then want to remove the paint, as I did, I used a wire knot brush on a 9" angle grinder (avoiding any machined surfaces, naturally). That should leave a surface ready to receive the paint of your choice -- I used red oxide followed by a machinery enamel. Good luck; have fun Clive ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "brokenwrench1 ." brokenwrenchx~xxgmail.com brokewrench Date: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:45 am ((PDT)) Sounds like my story. I am 60 and have played trumpet since 64. In 1982 i took a 618 on trade with a lot of tooling. In 1998 i was given a 12 x 24 with babbit bearings. It had the slow spindle speed. And no power cross feed. I bought a 12 x 30 th54 and had to rebuild it. What i would do if it were mine is disassemble it and clean each part separately. The larger part i would steam clean with a degreaser detergent. If you don't have that, a high pressure washer is next best with degreaser. If you have to scrub by hand i would either contact safetyclean and rent a parts washer or buy a small barrel of solvent or mix up gunk with #1 diesel or fuel oil and hand scrub it. Any rusted spots i would use steel wool and white vineagar, then wash with soap and water and blow dry with a hair dryer. Then take nd 30w oil in a rag and rub down all machined surfaces, then inspect all wear areas and parts. Reassemble replacing worn parts as needed. New gear sets are available on ebay at reasonable prices. I paid $80 for an entire set of new ones on a storage tube. Here are links for the most common repair parts. These lathes used 2 different sized lead screws the non power crossfeed used 5/8" lead-screw and the power crossfeed used 3/4" lead-screw. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Atlas-lathe-crossfeed-and-compound-nut-se t-/370476252946?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item56421aff12 original halfnut http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ATLAS-CRAFTSMAN-10-12-INCH-LATHES-10F-12-HA LF-SPLIT-NUTS-NEW-OEM-PARTS-/151434508487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&ha sh=item23423338c7 new aftermarket lead screw halfnut for 3/4" http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATLAS-CRAFTSMAN-AFTERMARKET-BRONZE-LATHE-3-4-SP LIT-HALF-NUTS-10F-12-/111487015612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=it em19f524dabc http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atlas-10-12-lathe-half-nuts-crossfeed-compou nd-kit-/370306948643?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item5638039e23 Used parts in good condition might save you some money but i like the brass replacements as they last longer than the alloy metal ones. ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:01 am ((PDT)) Kurt, I would use one of the parts cleaning fluids sold under various names such as Varsol, Stoddard Solvents, mineral oil, etc. Having used both these and diesel fuel, I find them preferable almost all respects. They are much better solvents, for one thing. They also have very little odor. The only downside in certain cases is that they leave little to no residue and if after cleaning the parts don't go immediately to painting, you should spray and/or wipe down the parts with WD40 or non-detergent oil. I would do the former for parts that will be painted within a few days or the latter for parts that aren't going to be painted, including all machined surfaces. For removing minor surface rust, I would use the finest abrasive pads (Scotchbrite, etc.) I could find combined with the solvent. For more general rust, either Evaporust or an electrolysis tank. > 2. What parts, if any, should be replaced immediately? I have seen > discussions suggesting the replacement of the felt pads/wipers on the > apron/cross-slide arms. Anything else? Outside of any that are clearly worn out upon cursory inspection, the only parts I would routinely replace are the belts (and I would NOT use link belts but that is an on-going argument here), and the felt pads and rubber wipers on the carriage. Sources are Clausing for both and eBay for the felt. If your headstock has Timken instead of babbit bearings, also install the felt pads in the bearing oil cups. Atlas started installing these at some point but I think it was after the 10" went out of production. On the half nuts, if they need replacement I would replace them with new originals so long as they are still available from Clausing. Which they were less than a year ago. The price was less than the average of what the brass ones sell for. And anyone who claims that the brass ones will outlast the cast ones is merely guessing as no brass ones have been in use long enough for anyone to make that claim. I bought a new set for my 3996 (Atlas 12x36) last year but decided that it wasn't time yet. My machine has been in use since 1981. The other two parts that should be tested to see whether or not they need replacement are the cross feed and compound feed nuts (unless the screws are so badly worn that you can easily see the wear in the middle versus the ends, the best plan with the screws is to first decide whether or not to replace the nuts, and if yes, replace them and then check the screws). To determine whether you should replace the nuts, first adjust the screw end float to near zero. Then use the dial to determine how much backlash remains. If it is under 0.010" or so, don't replace anything. It will never be zero even with all new parts correctly adjusted. Let your personal preference or what sort of stand you intend to put under it be your guide. If you are going to put the lathe on top of a (sturdy!) wooden cabinet or bench, or on a pair of the original cast iron legs, use wood about 2" thick. Don't use fiberboard or similar products as other a few years, they will absorb oil and begin to deteriorate. The late Atlas (and Craftsman) cabinet models are all steel, with the lathe feet actually setting on rubber cushions which serve as both cushions and seals. They also all have a drip pan, which I would recommend whether you go with wood or steel. Regardless of which you use, for best results and least problem with chatter, the bench/cabinet/stand should be leveled to the accuracy of a carpenter's level and solidly anchored to the floor. Then the bed should be attached and leveled with a precision level. Before someone mentions ships or the Navy, the lathe will work fine if it isn't level. But not if the bed isn't straight (the entire surface of both front and rear ways in the same plane). And without extremely expensive equipment, the only way to achieve this is to level it. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za cwlathes Date: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:17 am ((PDT)) Kurt, Your question has been well answered by other group members, so I would just like to add a further minor perspective . Depending on what's under the grime, one has a couple of options depending on your needs and preferences e.g. (i) Clean , strip and repair only those parts which need it, lubricate and adjust the lathe and put it into operation. (ii) Completely strip and restore the lathe -- and then re-commission it, or (iii) Start with (i) and follow it up with (ii) once you have a feel for it. I would tend to go for (i) from your description, as I have seen too many cases of abandoned (ii)'s with parts then going missing over the years unless you are really committed to the restoration option. Regarding cleaning we have had good results with engine cleaner which is water soluble afterwards, and leaves a protective film behind, or white creamy ammoniated household kitchen cleaner -- the type which is kind to paint (most popular brand in SA is known as "Handy Andy"). In both cases apply the cleaner -- work it in with a stiff paint brush, tooth brush, and/or kitchen brush, let it soak, apply more cleaner, and wash it off. Repeat where necessary. As has been mentioned, surface rust etc can be tackled with Scotchbrite pads or fine steel wool. Have fun, Carvel ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: pattonmex~xxyahoo.com pattonme Date: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:18 am ((PDT)) Automatic transmission fluid is IMO one of the best things to use. Cleans and protects surfaces. Wipe it down good and you can then add the oil of your choice. ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Ron Mattson" mattsonrjx~xxatt.net Date: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:42 pm ((PDT)) Google "Ed's Red bore cleaner. It's a home made solvent for cleaning shotgun bores -- major component is automatic transmission fluid. Should also be good on dirty tooling. Ron ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com db45acp Date: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:25 pm ((PDT)) Welcome, Kurt. If you intend to disassemble the lathe, I can strongly recommend an inexpensive cleaner that is an excellent alternative to solvents, diesel and other petroleum based cleaners. It is called "Awesome" and it is just that. LA's Totally Awesome Products - All Purpose Cleaner Product Testimonies. My grandsons, Matthew 10 and Nathan 6 are into Motorcycle racing and (Awesome) is ALL I used on their clothes. I even buy some and take it to the race track when I am there. View on www.lastotallyawesome.com You can find it at most Dollar Tree, Dollar General or 99 Cent stores across the country. I have even seen it in WalMart stores. I was about to invest in a SafeKleen tank and parts washer, when a motorcycle mechanic next door to my shop told me about it. I tried it and it saved me a ton of money. On the last 5 lathes I have rebuilt, I broke them completely down and soaked the parts in this cleaner. It is usually about 99 cents for a large spray bottle, but available in other sizes. It is very inexpensive for what it does. I actually use about 2 gallons in a large plastic bin. I immerse the parts and use a parts cleaning brush to wash away the grime. You can soak parts for 15 minutes to an hour, brush them accordingly, depending on how bad the grease and grime are, and rinse them off with water. Air dry, then wipe with an oiled rag or spray. I actually use WD40 for this. The longer you soak the better it works. Overnight or longer will actually take off the paint to bare metal, if you want to repaint the parts. And it will not damage, or harm the ZAMAC gears and other parts in any way. Soak, rinse, air dry, then spray with WD40 and you're good to go. It has almost no odor, is not caustic or corrosive and will not cause the parts to rust by itself when wiped off. As I said, I rinse the parts, then dry and oil them. I am very happy with the results and the cost. I get several uses out of a gallon or more. You can pour off the liquid and screen/ filter out the dirt and grime and reuse it several times. It has a very slow evaporation rate. It will dry your hands and skin if you have them in it a lot, the same as any detergent would. I wear cheap Nitrile gloves when using it a lot. I strongly suggest you check it out. I am certain you will be pleased. You won't come out smelling like a grease monkey, and that is one thing that makes my wife very happy. Good luck with it. Dan ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: jmartin957x~xxaol.com jmartin957 Date: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:46 pm ((PDT)) One thing I forgot to mention -- if you use the purple cleaners, or similar, keep them away from the die cast parts. Cast iron and steel only. The die cast parts are Zamak, which is primarily zinc plus aluminum, magnesium and copper. The purple cleaners contain lye and/or other strongly alkaline compounds. That's what makes them work so well -- the alkalis react with the oils to form soaps. Unfortunately, those alkalis will also attack zinc, aluminum and magnesium. ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net jtiers Date: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:42 pm ((PDT)) Actually, you CAN use purple etc on aluminum and many/most alloy parts. The key is really that you should not "soak" them. Cleaning followed by a rinse is fine. They bubble and look like bad things are happening, but nothing of interest happens in reality. I have actually TRIED to de-burr some aluminum with a lye-based solution. It takes a LOT, and it works slowly unless heated. I ended up using a tumbling process to deburr them, the lye wasn't doing it. If lye will not remove small burrs in any reasonable time, it isn't going to instantly eat your parts either. If soaked in it, (or soaked in phosphoric, or electrolytically treated) some parts may be affected by removal of some components of the alloy from the surface. Acids tend to remove zinc but not copper from brass, for instance, making brass look more like copper. The effect of a strong base on the appearance of the surface of aluminum alloys from extended soaking I don't know. So feel free to clean zamac, but do not soak it. Jerry ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.net garlinghouseles Date: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:11 pm ((PDT)) I pretty much go along with what's been offered and further offer that: Simple Green is a pretty amazing degreaser -- just spray it on, let it sit, hose it off. Also I used spray cans of automotive brake degreaser -- cheap and available at W-M, NAPA and just about everywhere else. It will probably take off some paint, but if you are repainting that's not a problem I also made a variety of scrapers by grinding an edge on some appropriately shaped edge on steel strapping, dull sabre saw blades and plastic scrapers and toothbrush handles for digging out some really impacted stuff. I went to the local fuel supplier and bought 5 gal of safety solvent [probably not all that different from the diesel already mentioned]. An inclined paint tray like you use for paint rollers makes a good place to scrub some parts that aren't too big that you can scrub w/ a tooth or paint brush. The solvent runs down to the deep end and you can just dip your brush there as needed. Have fun!! L.H. in the southern Ozarks -------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Gregg Eshelman" g_alan_ex~xxYAHOO.COM Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:32 am ((PDT)) On 10/19/2014 12:34 AM, cliveadams23x~xxaol.com [atlas_craftsman] wrote: > I've never heard of purple or green cleaners - maybe it's a 'local' > thing - local to the US perhaps? http://purplepower.com/ (it has a streaming music player, currently playing the Space Wrangler album by Widespread Panic) http://simplegreen.com/ (no streaming music so it loses cool points to Purple Power) One neat thing I used Simple Green for was reviving an erratic glass scale on a milling machine digital readout. Took an end cap off, slid out the slide then filled it partway with the cleaner and put the cap back on. Just took some sloshing back and forth then flushing with plain water. Also did the same with the slide, plus carefully cleaned the mirror. Put it back together after it was dry and it worked fine. ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: cliveadams23x~xxaol.com cliveadams79 Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:04 am ((PDT)) Just did an eBay search for both of these items -- only one for Purple Power. [snip] The shipping kills it more than somewhat. Again no UK listings for Simple Green, but a lot in the US -- too many to post a link. The shipping costs as much as the product in most cases, so making them less attractive. They both sound great and I'd love to try the products but they're effectively unavailable to me, so if anybody feels like sending me a sample perhaps I'll open a UK franchise... :-J Meantime I'll just carry on with the diesel and washing soda. We're such savages over here! Clive ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Steve w" stevewatrx~xxhotmail.com stevewatr Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:26 am ((PDT)) I'd like to thank the OP for posting this question. I am making mote of several replies for my own possible future use. Many of the cleaners mentioned I have heard of, and even tried on occasion. I'd like to add a couple comments. First off, I have used Purple power, and have used it on aluminum castings safely, provided the part was only dipped in it, scrubbed, and rinsed immediately. I made the mistake of soaking an aluminum carburetor body overnight, and nearly ruined it. Also, do not get this stuff on your hands. It does not burn like acid, so there is no immediate warning, but it does a number on your skin. It makes your skin feel weird to touch, and it takes a couple days for your hands to return to normal. A more recent favorite of mine that I now use in place of Gunk foaming engine degreaser is 3M foaming engine degreaser. This stuff works great, and can be rinsed off with water. But it also dissolved the old paint I had on my lathe, and other old machines. Since I was cleaning to prep for painting it was a bonus, but if your intention is to save the paint under the grease, I'd avoid this stuff. This stuff also has strong fumes, so I wear a respirator, with brings me to another cleaner..oven cleaner! I've heard several guys mention they buy the el cheapo cans of oven cleaner at the dollar store to strip grime and old paint off machines. Another possibility is a professional engine rebuilding shop. Many of these shops have caustic lye tanks, and "Jet cleaners". Many large enough to fit in the entire bed of a small lathe. That being said, I am definitely going to pick up a bottle of that $0.99 "amazing" stuff. Regards, Steve Watroba ------- questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Steve w" stevewatrx~xxhotmail.com stevewatr Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:47 pm ((PDT)) I should have clarified this in my earlier post, Gunk is a trade name for an engine degreaser made by a company called Radiator Specialty Company. They have a website, Gunk.com. The stuff smells like it is a petroleum based solvent to me. It is pretty common in most automotive parts stores here in the US. It's been around for a long time, and I used to buy it by the case when it was on sale. Then someone gave me a can of the 3M version. First thing I noticed was a very different (and much stronger) smell. Next thing I noticed was it cut through built up grease and dirt much quicker. Third thing I noticed was the paint melting away as I scrubbed. Cheers! Steve Watroba ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org shdesigns2003 Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:21 pm ((PDT)) Old spray Gunk used to remove anything. After the EPA regs changed thngs, most cleaners went tame. I miss the old HydraSol that used to remove anything that got near it (and turned you hands black and probably caused cancer.) My favorite degreaser is denatured alcohol. It is relatively cheap by the gallon and does not leave a residue. Purple cleaners for real old grease although it will effect aluminum (seems to anodize it.) I don't use it often as it gets pricy and hard on hands. Simple green to be friendly to the environment, especially when pressure washing. Acetone for some hard gunk and weld prep. Brake cleaner when a spray-clean is easy. I use electrolysis more often as I like it for less scrubbing. Glass bead in my blast cabinet works wonders for aluminum and leaves a matt finish. Also does well on steel. Scott G. Henion, Stone Mountain, GA Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 Welding pages and homemade welder: http://shdesigns.org/Welding -------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Curt Wuollet" wideopen1x~xxcharter.net curt.wuollet Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:40 pm ((PDT)) The old Gunk Carburetor cleaner removed everything quickly, including skin. Gunk, Gumout, even Lacquer thinner used to be vastly more effective in removing anything from metal. Now your hands won't peel after using them, but they don't do much to stubborn deposits either. I don't know if you can buy anything that works like the old stuff did. If you could find a bucket of the old stuff, a 15 second dip and all the crud would run off. I use kerosene, safe enough and it penetrates well and leaves enough of an oily coating that you have a few days to finish or oil everything. It's not a clean in seconds solvent, but given a few hours it works well. Regards cww ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "brokenwrench1 ." brokenwrenchx~xxgmail.com brokewrench Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:11 am ((PDT)) I use cold formula foamy fast acting oven cleaner? Just spray and scrub and rinse with soapy warm water, then rinse with clean water and blow dry so it does not etch bare metal. When I clean aluminium lawn mower engine blocks I use oven cleaner. ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.com db45acp Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:10 am ((PDT)) Whatever you do DO NOT get oven cleaner on ZAMAK. If you do and don't get it rinsed immediately all you'll have left will be a blob of silvery goo. I'd really warn against using anything with lye in it. Dan ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "James Irwin" jirwin1x~xxaustin.rr.com jimirwin2001 Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:37 pm ((PDT)) I used to use brake parts cleaner. Then they changed the formula to include mostly acetone. Damaged the paint big-time! Gotta watch out for these things. Stoddard/Varsol/etc are fine, but slow acting & not aggressive. If I had a 6-incher, I think Iıd look for a large shop with a big hot tank and have the whole thing dunked for an hour or so. (After being sure the solvent would not attack anything but the dirt/grease/yuck.) ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "brokenwrench1 ." brokenwrenchx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:14 pm ((PDT)) Hot tank solution is based on muriatic acid. It dissolves aluminium and zinc in no time. The new product is the sand blaster that uses baking soda instead of sand. When finished just rinse with warm water. These units are cheap from Harbor Freight. ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net jtiers Date: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:24 am ((PDT)) Sunday, October 19, 2014 Scott Henion shenionx~xxshdesigns.org wrote: "Glass bead in my blast cabinet works wonders for aluminum and leaves a matt finish. Also does well on steel. " Bead blasting will do FAR MORE damage to aluminum than just cleaning with purple cleaner. The cleaner is also cheaper, at a few bucks for a gallon, which can be diluted somewhat without harm to its effectiveness. A bead blasting setup is not cheap and the cleaner is less than a can of blasting medium at HF. (Of course if you HAVE the blasting setup...) As for the hands, gloves are the thing. Jerry ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org shdesigns2003 Date: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:47 am ((PDT)) I use bead blasting most for oxidized aluminum. The glass shatters the hard oxide layer but bounces off the aluminum. Only for use when being painted or if you want a matt finish. Have not tried it on Zamak, nor would I. Last time I looked at a gallon of Purple Power and others, it was about $15/gallon, not a few bucks (used to be about $6.). My glass bead was about the same price and has lasted me many years. I use it most on things I want to take paint off and repaint. I'll use denatured alcohol or mineral spirits over the purple cleaners any day. After it effected the aluminum frame on my Ninja even after being diluted, I don't buy the purple cleaners anymore. For a water soluble cleaner I use Simple Green. Scott G. Henion, Stone Mountain, GA Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 Welding pages and homemade welder: http://shdesigns.org/Welding ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: jwreyx~xxusa.net mondosmetals Date: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:32 am ((PDT)) I bead-blasted all the ZAMAK change gears when I first got my Atlas/ Craftsman lathe. Works great!! They were covered with old crusty grunge that neither kerosene nor acetone would clean off. Came out looking new, no damage done! For aluminum I would use crushed walnut shells. raymond ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Richard Marchi" rfmarchix~xxaol.com marchirichard Date: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:19 am ((PDT)) Kurt: There has been a tremendous amount of excellent advice on various cleaning techniques in this thread. I just want to caution you that many of these posts are intended to deal with a lathe that is being broken down for a complete restoration, or one that is so heavily crudded up with polymerized, hardened grease/oil/dirt that a really vigorous cleaning is needed. My advice (like some of the posters) is to do a light cleaning with a cloth or fiber brush of the ways, cross slide, lead and feed screws, nuts and gears with kerosene, Varsol, paint thinner... whatever similar solvent you have available. Take a fine Norton India slip to any dings on the ways and then lube it and turn it on. Listen for bad sounds. Try the feeds. If everything sounds OK, check the feed nuts and headstock bearings for excessive play and adjust if needed (see files section). Then, start making chips! Richard Marchi ------- Re: questions: preparing a dirty, old lathe for use Posted by: "Jack Sims" jack-br549x~xxatt.net jack_br549 Date: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:30 am ((PDT)) And don't forget to have fun doing it. If you are new to the game be warned it is addictive. Also be safe, you can get hurt very quickly. Jack Sims Carrollton, Texas ------- Truth about Purple cleaner actual test [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net jtiers Date: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:56 pm ((PDT)) There has been a lot of comment and hyperventilation about how purple cleaner and its relatives will eat aluminum parts. I say it doesn't, and I decided to do a test. Aluminum foil seemed to be a good subject for a test, it's thin, and might provide dramatic photos of the foil eaten right up to the "water line". Well, don't get excited, it wasn't very dramatic. I filled a small yogurt cup (chobani greek, if it matters, 6 oz size) about half full of undiluted purple cleaner (Zep Industrial Purple Cleaner from Home Depot). A square of standard aluminum foil (2.25" x 2.35") was immersed approximately halfway in the purple cleaner. Aluminum foil was measured to be 1.8 thou thick, using a Mitutoyo 1" micrometer. After 20 seconds or so, it began to foam up, and looked like this http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/purple clean1_zps3aa3fccf.jpg.html I waited 10 minutes, after which not much seemed to be happening, and removed the aluminum foil. The remaining cleaner in the cup had a very substantial "head" on it. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/purple clean2_zps8c4aeb1f.jpg.html The aluminum foil was visibly complete, and after washing it was not visibly affected by its immersion. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/purple clean3_zpsfd7d5ffc.jpg.html The immersed portion measured at approximately 1.2 thousandths of an inch thick at the thinnest part, and the non-immersed part ws confirmed at 1.8 thou. The difference was 6 ten-thousandths of an inch. Another piece of foil was immersed in the remaining purple cleaner, and did show some bubbling, but nothing like the original thick "head" was present after several minutes. What I get from this is that if about 3 oz of the purple cleaner can remove only 3 ten-thousandths of an inch thickness from each side of a piece of aluminum foil in ten minutes of soaking, and is apparently substantially exhausted in doing that, it is extremely unlikely to do any measurable damage to your machine parts in any reasonable cleaning process involving repeated dunking, scrubbing, and rinsing. I think a good cleaning does not have to include this process, but if you choose to use the lye-based Purple cleaners, you may do a normal sort of cleaning (no extended soaking) without fear. ------- Re: Truth about Purple cleaner actual test Posted by: "brokenwrench1 ." brokenwrenchx~xxgmail.com brokewrench Date: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:41 pm ((PDT)) White vinegar and steel wool cleans rust and frees rusted parts better than wd40 liquid wrench and you get a gallon for less than one small can of penetrating oil. Just wash with soapy water when the rust is gone. ------- Re: Truth about Purple cleaner actual test Posted by: "Richard Hughson" richughsonx~xxgmail.com loopyrich Date: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:13 am ((PDT)) Aluminum foil is actually a bit of foil covered with thin plastic on each side. I don't know what this means to your test, thank you for doing it, but thought I'd mention it. Rick H -------- Re: Truth about Purple cleaner actual test Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net jtiers Date: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:34 am ((PDT)) Yes, it may have a 'skim coat" of plastic on it. But not enough plastic to bother the test, since the foil, after a slight delay as the plastic was apparently penetrated, was visibly covered by bubbling solution on each side. Obviously the plastic coating, if present, was not affecting the test. There WAS measurable removal of material, and therefore we can confidently say that the cleaner was contacting the aluminum, since we know that it does react with aluminum, and would expect to see evidence of that. The bubbling, material removal, and foam on both sides of the material during the test verify that the plastic was not preventing the reaction. It took approximately 20 to 30 seconds for the cleaner to penetrate the plastic and begin vigorous bubbling. Jerry ------- Re: Truth about Purple cleaner actual test Posted by: "Whitney" WhitPUSMCx~xxaol.com w.philbrick Date: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:12 am ((PDT)) I am very willing to believe that the Purple cleaner has only a slight reaction with bare Aluminum over a reasonably short time, ie cleaning but not prolonged submersion with a large volume of cleaner. That said, it is possible that the cleaner in the experiment only removed the plastic on both sides? If the plastic is on both sides its removal might explain the difference in pre/post test measurements? Might be interesting to repeat with a non coated sample? Whit ------- Re: Truth about Purple cleaner actual test Posted by: jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net jtiers Date: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:31 pm ((PDT)) I have no idea if the material was coated in fact, or not. If it was, it is a thin coating, and the lye apparently removed it easily. There was a slight delay between putting in the sample and the beginning of bubbling, which I can accept attributing to a coating. I have no doubt whatever that the coating, if present, was removed and the aluminum was directly attacked, due to the vigorous bubbling on both sides. The "hand" of the etched side is different, in keeping with it being somewhat thinner, as well. I did not, however, attempt to ignite the gas given off, which would presumably be hydrogen. Mentioning the test elsewhere produced a host of folks who routinely clean aluminum with lye based cleaners, and who cannot figure out what the fuss is about. Jerry ------- Cleaning lead screw & 6in QC [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Jim Irwin" jirwin1x~xxaustin.rr.com jimirwin2001 Date: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:03 pm ((PST)) Whatıs best practice for cleaning the lead screw? Talking about dried oil dust & chips now. Also, is/was there ever a QC box for the 6 in Atlas? I just got one w/o QC. My larger ones both have QC. Thanks Jim Irwin 6, 10 & 12 Atlas lathes ------- Re: Cleaning lead screw & 6in QC Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:29 pm ((PST)) I use a brass wire brush. Set the feed to 10-15 TPI or whatever works best and toward the headstock. Move the carriage to the headstock end of the bed. Start the machine and hold the brush against the lead screw hard enough to get the brush tips down into the threads, letting the lead move the brush right to left. Move the brush in and out or up and down to use the full face. Clean the brush as required. When you get to the carriage, clean the brush and if necessary repeat. Move the carriage to the tailstock and catch the part it was covering. > Also, is/was there ever a QC box for the 6 in Atlas? I've heard rumors that someone did build one but don't know whether it was commercial or a one-off. If no one here know for sure, try the 618 list. I know that no one has mentioned one on H-M in the past three years. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: Cleaning lead screw & 6in QC Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.za cwlathes Date: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:07 pm ((PST)) Sometimes it helps to alternate Robert's treatment with a stiff bristle brush and kerosene. Regards, Carvel ------- Re: Top slide reassembly [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Wed Jun 3, 2015 1:55 pm ((PDT)) On 03/06/2015, Ant Mallett [myfordlathes] wrote: > If I may, one further question: Is > using paraffin to clean parts OK? Or is there moisture in the paraffin > that can cause rusting? Perhaps I should clean the paraffin off with > lacquer thinners and then oil > the parts? Sorry, that was three questions, but they are related... Well, yes, and no! Or maybe should say Yes but it's not the complete answer. If you use nice clean paraffin (kerosene in other parts) to clean oily steel, it will do a good job. So good that you can be left with a totally oil-free surface. This can become covered in rust in a few hours just from moisture in the air, i.e. not in contact with liquid water. It's called flash rusting, and can be a real problem sometimes. So yes, use paraffin to clean the parts but then shake off the excess and get some oil onto it. No need to mess around with thinners, just get some oil on there with a paintbrush. Of course, if the paraffin has already been used for cleaning and so is "contaminated" with oil, then the risk of rusting is reduced. Anyway, nothing to do with water in the paraffin. Water and paraffin aren't miscible, though on a micro scale you can get a bit of one in the other. One of our list members, much experienced in industrial practice (haven't heard from him for a while though) gave a useful tip a few years ago. Get a wide mouth screw-cap jar, fill it three quarters or so with paraffin and add a few dollops of "Vaseline" (petroleum jelly). Not important how much, maybe 5 or 10 percent, but not more. It slowly dissolves, leave it on the shelf for a couple of days. Most of the Vaseline will go into solution but there might be some flocculent stuff at the bottom. At the end of a workshop session, especially if you know you'll be out of the shop for a few days, stir it up with a brush (old toothbrush in my case) and paint it over anything that's prone to rusting. I tended to get light rust on the chuck when I went on holiday for example, but not now. I don't use it on the ways, they are plenty oily all the time. Kevin, England ------- OT Vibrator deburring liquid? [TAIGTOOLS] Posted by: "Boman33" boman33x~xxvinland.com bertho_boman Date: Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:55 pm ((PDT)) I have a vibrator deburrer and I got small sort of pyramid shaped ceramic pieces to use for deburring. I tried to debur some aluminum pieces and it worked just fine except the surface was afterwards coated with a difficult to remove "dust". No solvent would remove it. Rubbing the pieces on a flat piece of paper removed it. (Like using the paper as smooth sandpaper) I have previously only used it dry with sand or other polishing material and this was my first try with the ceramic media. I think I am supposed to use a liquid with the ceramic pieces but I do not know what type. I am hoping for something home-mixed or easily obtained instead of industrial use in barrel sizes. Bertho ------- Re: OT Vibrator deburring liquid? Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Date: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:37 pm ((PDT)) I use water mixed with a very small amount of dishwashing powder (cascade) and a dash of vinegar as my water is hard. You may have to experiment as aluminum reacts differently with soaps and water pH, etc. ------- Re: OT Vibrator deburring liquid? Posted by: ddi92234x~xxaol.com steve_fornelius2000 Date: Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:40 pm ((PDT)) I worked in a machine shop and I was the tumbler bitch for months -- ceramic isn't the right media for aluminum for starters. Here's a thread from practical machinist forum. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/tumbling-alu minum-155835/ That should answer your questions :) Steve ------- Re: OT Vibrator deburring liquid? Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org pstemari Date: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:25 am ((PDT)) > very small amount of dishwashing powder (cascade) and a dash of > vinegar as my water is hard. Yes, *very small* amount is the operative term there. Dishwasher detergent is very alkaline and aluminum reacts with both acids and alkalis. The vinegar should help balance that out. Should be OK as long as you remove the aluminum from the solution promptly and rinse it thoroughly. ------- Re: OT Vibrator deburring liquid? Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:17 am ((PDT)) Yes, it's really there for wetting and floating the detritus away, not for any actual washing action. You don't want suds! ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------