This file includes conversations on cutting or sawing methods for metal, primarily in the context of the home workshop. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2008 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 04:50:40 -0000 From: ballendox~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Cutting FERROUS Metal with a BANDsaw Hi all! You used to be able to get a ferrous "blade" for the Rockwell 14" bandsaws. It was a "toothless" blade, with a wavy edge like a butchers 'meat cutting'(as opposed to bone cutting) blade. It works on the friction cut method, and is designed to run at "wood" speeds. You can see Jim Cummins of Taunton Press' Fine woodworking Magazine duplicating this type of cut (with a standard blade)in his Taunton video "tips and tricks". Hope this helps. Ballendo ------- Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:35:25 -0800 From: gsstrattonx~xxhome.com Subject: Bandsaw I use a Rockwell 14" woodworkers bandsaw to cut nonferrous metals. It uses a 105" blade and blade speed is about 3K/min. I cut mostly brass up to 1" thick without any problems. I use bimetalic blades that are as thin as I can get (not to be confused with widths) and they just chomp their way through brass and stay sharp about 30 times longer than regular blades. Also, these blades do not seem to break due to 'work hardening' like regular blades. Gil S ------- Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 12:49:33 -0000 From: philm39x~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Cutting Metal with a table saw Just to add my two cents on the subject. Yes you can cut aluminium on the table saw; you can also use your bench mounted router on aluminium, which is great if you need to cut irregular patterns. Just cut a wood template, stick it to the aluminium and follow the wood pattern. Two words of warning. First, slow down your cut rate when cutting with a router or a table saw and use any and every safety jig you have. you don't want any kickback, since a piece of flying aluminium can really hurt. Secondly, disconnect your dust collector if you have one. Aluminium powder, which is what you are creating with the router and table saw is very flammable. Aluminium powder is used in rocket fuel. Mix that with the saw dust in your dust collector and boom, a home made rocket. ------- NOTE TO FILE: DO NOT USE A WOODWORKING TABLE OR RADIAL ARM SAW FOR METAL!!!! THERE ARE MUCH SAFER ALTERNATIVES. ------- Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:12:56 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Cutting Metal with a table saw Hi Nick: Yes you can cut many nonferrous metals with an unconverted woodcutting bandsaw. I use a Delta 14 inch saw to cut 7075 aluminum up to 5" thick with no problems. I bought a high speed steel blade for it and I use Doall cutting wax on it. Wear ear protection if you want to do this; it's really hard on your ears!!. A note about table saws and sawing metal: It's dangerous as hell!! The problem is kickback. A good strong lad might be able to hang onto the piece when she jumps, but he risks having pieces of blade whizzing about his ears if he does. The axis and direction of rotation of a table saw aims the pieces directly toward his head. If you look at the big panel saws that the supply houses use to cut aluminum plate, you will notice that they all have provisions for holding down both sides of the sheet, and the saw is advanced mechanically; often with a leadscrew. Even then you get the "Big Bang" once in a while when the blade loads up. The absolute worst "Never Do This" is to try to use a radial arm saw to cut 6061 or other gummy grades of aluminum. You are courting the loss of an arm if you try!!! I've seen a radial saw take off and jump its endstop. Fortunately no one was hurt, but one of the most frightening sights you will ever see is a radial armsaw motor and blade zipping toward you from across the room at warp speed. Keep it safe Marcus ------- Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:32:21 -0500 From: "Rich D." Subject: Re: Re: Recommendations on Bandsaws? Dave, and all, I bandsaw Aluminum and steel frequently as a matter of business. Only on rare occasions do I concern myself with alternate TPI blades. I generally use 14 TPI for most everything at about 100 fpm on the horiz cutoff saw and a 14" vertical. I have a vertical "wood" saw with a 6 TPI scip tooth blade running at "wood" speeds. Works fine for aluminum and regular brass (no hard bearing bronzes). Lubrication is an absolute _must_. Machinists stick wax works very well, is handy, cheap and not messy. Apply frequently to the side and edge of the running blade opposite to the wheels. Never a problem of stipped teeth, scored sides or loaded teeth. For sawing thin tubing (EMT), ease the saw carefully thru by hand. Rich D. ------- Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 21:18:04 -0800 From: James Eckman Subject: Re: Cutting Metal with a table saw Be cheap like me! For most anything we do on Sherline and Taig sized machines, why not use a hacksaw? Cheap, reliable and very safe. Just this week, I sawed up 3 pieces of aluminum 1 1/2" thick x 5" long. It took about 20 minutes each... Good exercise! Jim Eckman Who has a software roll ;) ------- Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 19:45:43 -0000 From: n2562001x~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Small Horizontal/Vertical Cutoff Saws (Off Topic?) Dave: The ones that I have seen and owned have all been the same except for the paint job. They seem to work ok for the price but you get what you pay for. It is difficult to tighten the blade tight enough for accurate cuts but for general cutting they work fine. The one weak area is the lubrication that comes in the gear box from the factory. Whatever it is its bad news and I would replace it with STP or heavy gear lube . Its also important to seal the gear case so you don`t run it dry. This saw is one of the very few items I would ever buy again from Asia. Jerry Kieffer ------- NOTE TO FILE: Better models have side blade-support bearings as well as rear blade-support bearings. ------- Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 18:04:07 -0000 From: karl.grossx~xxgm.com Subject: Re: Small Horizontal/Vertical Cutoff Saws --- In sherlinex~xxy..., ballendox~xxy... wrote: I bought one of the HF saws and had it delivered to my house for $139.00. I had to join the "insiders club" ( $15 ) to get the best price, but it saved me $60 from the catalogue price. The base/legs had to be stiffened up with 2X4 reinforcements and I used a 1" spotfacer to clean up the the pivot (between the "as cast" base and the saw itself). I then made a bushing to take up all side to side play. This takes all the friction out of the pivot and the saw works freely. The saw has all the required ball bearing guides and does come with a 1 hp motor. I've used the saw to cut aluminum and steel up to 3" and it cuts very well. When used as a vertical saw, the table is pretty flimsy, but works. I've been planning to make a new table for over a year, guess it doesn't work that bad! Don't know how I could get along without it, leaves a lot more time to do machining. karl ------- Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:38:59 -0400 From: Cathy & George Dunham Subject: Re: cutting wire & models At 01:02 AM 6/19/2001 +0000, you wrote: > I got a few good suggestions on cutting music wire,however, I need >a more efficiant method than cutting and grinding the ends flat. Does >anyone know of a cutter which would cut the ends resonably flat >whithout doing extra grinding. > My next question is, does anyone have the specifactions for a P38E >drop tank? I have not found any good info in the model or airplane >books I have on hand and some of the drawing I have found don't have >enough info to be reliable for my needs. I would be interested in >info on other drop tanks too, such as the P47, etc. Thanks Bob. Hi Group and Bob: In my experience a square end is best achieved with a rapid shearing between two close fitting tool plates with a hole providing a slip fit for the gage wire you are cutting. Flat blades compress the circumference, drawing the wire creating a "D" displaced toward the ")" part of the "D" A cutter can be fashioned with this in mind. 1. 2 plates of tool steel. Finish a side on each that will mate for the shear. 2. Center drill for the rotating bolt 3/8 grade 8 with jam nut should do. 3. A piece of 1/2 x 1/8 or 3/32 about a foot long for a handle Garden hose to cushion. 4. Center drill for 3/8 pivot bolt. Allow a tail for one of the drive pins. 5. Assemble handle to rotating plate. 6. Drill a hole to receive a drive pin on each side of the pivot clear through. 7. Remove the handle, enlarge the two pin receivers in the cutting plate (next numbered drill). 8. Press the appropriate pins into the handle and braze. 9. Now assemble the whole thing. 10. Now drill as many sized holes as you require clean through. Square is the goal here. 11. Disassemble, harden the plates, reassemble. A depth stop can be added etc. When cutting use a quick action to minimize deformation. Hope this helps. Regards George Dunham NAWCC 0135625 Clock Repair at Antiques & Uniques 152 Route 171 S. Woodstock, CT 06281 (860) 928-6020 ------- Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:15:23 -0000 From: dewarrx~xxtelusplanet.net Subject: cutting wire Thanks for some more ideas. Using Georges idea for inspiration I used an old pare of wiss snips, ground a notch in each blade about the size of the wire and gave it a try. It cuts the music wire nice and square and clean. No finger pokers on the ends. It still needs a bit of refining but it works very well. The ultimate answer may be Georges tool design but I'll try this for now. Thanks Now if someone has some info on drop tanks, let me know. Thanks again Bob ------- From: kdolanx~xxe... Date: Sun Jul 8, 2001 4:37 pm Subject: Cheap Bronze This is probably off-topic, but there seems to be a lot of experience in this group so... Like many here, I'm always on the lookout for a bargain in "bits and pieces" that might come in handy later. I often need a bit of Bronze for some project or other and generally have found Bronze kinda hard to come by. Recently I spied a container full of what was identified as "Silicon Bronze Ingots". These looked like the shape of a loaf of bread, about a foot long and about 4" thick at the base. I also have one of the cheap Central Machinery 4 1/2" band saws that has served me pretty well so I thought "I'll grab one of those and just slice off pieces as needed." Well, this stuff isn't particularly hard, but it must be abrasive as H***. Throwing it up on my saw I began to slice off a 1/2" piece for a project I have in mind. The saw had a relatively new blade and is pretty sharp. The cut went well for about 3/4 inch, merrily spitting out chips, but soon it slowed down the rate of cut and only a slow output of very, very fine chips. Another new blade... Still no real progress, it's been cutting for about an hour and a half now and only about 1/3 of the way through! Looks like the blade pretty quickly gets is side offset of the teeth worn off (I know there's a name for this side offset of the teeth, but I can't recall it. Kerf?). Anyone have any suggestions or sage advice? Kirk Dolan ------- From: michaelhenryx~xxm... Date: Sun Jul 8, 2001 5:25 pm Subject: Re: Cheap Bronze This is probably a stupid suggestion, but are you sure that the bandsaw isn't getting hung up on something? More than once, I've experienced the same sudden decrease in sawing speed only to discover that one of the alignment bearings was getting caught on the saw vise. ------- From: doogdoogx~xxh... Date: Sun Jul 8, 2001 5:25 pm Subject: Re: Cheap Bronze Aloha Kirk, I don't know if this will help but: 1. Try your slowest speed. 2. Use 10tpi bi-metal blade. 3. One time I was trying to cut a piece of scrap cast iron for a project and it started off very good, then the blade didn't seem to cut as well so I removed the blade and it looked like one side was very dull so I changed the blade and the same thing happened. I removed the piece from the vise and turned it side ways and made a cut perpendicular to the first cut and I found a small ball bearing in the stock. Maybe there are some impurities in your stock. Hope this helps. Mahalo, Howard ------- From: S1 Date: Sun Jul 8, 2001 9:04 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Cheap Bronze Kirk- These ingots are probably pretty pure. I used to do lots of work in a bronze foundry, and the ingots discribed are your standard 15 or 20 lb ingots. Silicon bronze is the strongest of bronzes used in industry and is very good for structural applications. The common mix is generally 94% copper, 5% tin, and 1% silicon. It takes a patina worse than Manganese bronze, and is less good for art foundrys, but many art foundrys use it. Bronze is poured into the mold at 2100 degrees F. As far as cutting it, a 10 TPI blade at the slowest speed will be best. Bronze is generally very abrasive, so Bi-metal blades are best. To give a good idea of how abrasive it is, it eats HSS burs really fast, and Carbide is generally required. One thing to watch out for with these ingots is a weak center. Depending how these were poured, the middle of the ingot may be very porous. This is caused if the bronze was poured into an the ingot molds that was significantly colder than the molten metal. The outside of the ingot was formed much sooner than the inside, as the outside cooled faster than inside (and shrunk) it pulls metal where it still is molten (oftentimes the center). The end result is a center where the metal structure is much more porous and crystaline than the outside where the ingot mold was. So depending on what you are making, a sections of the ingot may not be optimal material to use. Gabe ------- From: kdolanx~xxe... Date: Sun Jul 8, 2001 8:02 pm Subject: Re: Cheap Bronze Well, now *two* blades and about 5 hours later I've got a slice of Bronze. The stuff is not apparently hard, punching a center mark into it with my spring-loaded center punch produces a punch mark a little wider and deeper than the same done on a scrap piece of brass. But "cheap bronze" this ain't! That 1/2" slice has cost me the price of two blades ($20?), the first blade was not new, I'd been using it about 8 or 10 months, but I'd also made a cut thru an inch and a half crs bar a couple of days ago and it sailed through like expected (maybe 2 minutes). The second blade is now also dull. I'd been planning on purchasing a good Starret bi-metal blade the next time I needed one (the ones I just used are cheap chinese I got at the same time I got the saw). Now I need to get a new blade so I think I'll get two good ones. Perhaps I'll risk a good blade in one more try, they are about $20 a piece, but it begins to look like that "cheap bronze" wasn't such a bargain after all. Thanks to all who weighed in. That's the real value of the forum... Kirk ------- From: "George" Date: Sun Jul 8, 2001 11:06 pm Subject: Re: Cheap Bronze > about 1/3 of the way through! Looks like the blade pretty quickly > gets is side offset of the teeth worn off (I know there's a name for > this side offset of the teeth, but I can't recall it. Kerf?). Kirk: This is called the "rake" of the blade ,and if you start a new blade in a grove that was cut with another blade (especially a dull one) then it can and will "kill"the rake on the new blade! The others have prettymuch covered everything else but you might have better luck using some coolant. Hope this helps some George Hunt ------- From: kdolanx~xxe... Date: Mon Jul 9, 2001 3:18 pm Subject: Re: Cheap Bronze - Final Report How sweet it is ---- Thanks to all, especially Howard, Gabe, George, Jon & Dj, your suggestions were right on. Yeah, I was using a 18tpi blade and the speed was on the top pully (highest). I think another lesson here for us neophytes, "patience, these things DO take time!". This morning, first thing, back to my local "chinese stuff" importer (aka Harbor Freight) where I got a new blade, this time 10tpi (six bucks). What a difference! On lowest speed one smooth cut through, about 40 minutes, and I had another "slice", and the blade still seems OK. It's really great to have all this expertise available... Kirk ------- From: "Dave Engels" Date: Wed Aug 8, 2001 11:32 pm Subject: RE: [atlas_craftsman] horizontal vertical metal cutting bandsaw Biltutx~xxa. on August 08, 2001 wrote: >> Hey guys, this is a little bit off the subject but still related. I am considering the purchase of a metal cutting bandsaw. I have looked at the harbour freight model as well as the northern hydraulics model. They both appear to be identical with the exception of the color of the paint. I seem to remember reading in Home Shop Machinist that the Jet Model was a little better. There is about $80.00 difference, with the Harbour / northern model costing about $180.00 and the Jet with a little larger capacity costing about $261.00. Granted certainly not a lot of money compared to the aggravation of the hack saw!!!! Any help or input would be greatly appreciated. Bill << Bill, I don't [know] what you will be cutting with a bandsaw, but I have purchased a cheap ($45) Chinese made abrasive cutoff saw. Works great!!! There is a scrap metals supply house near me, a big operation, and they have all kinds of metal saws, band saws, etc etc, but I notice they seem to use the abrasive cutoff saws mostly. They work not only on steel/iron, but also very well on aluminum, and leave a relatively smooth finish. At $45 my saw (it's about an 8 inch wheel) takes care of my needs very well. Replacement wheels are not that expensive. I agree completely with you re the hacksaw:) Best, Dave Engels ------- From: S1 Date: Thu Aug 9, 2001 2:29 am Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] horizontal vertical metal cutting bandsaw Well, They all are probably are all made by the same people. Delta "makes" one and the castings look identical the the HF one. Same capacities, speeds everything. Delta puts Delta knobs on theirs and paints it Delta Grey, Jet paints the ones they get white and puts a Jet sticker on it..... Those band- saws are like import lathes: Many people sell a 7X10, 9X20.....and they all look the same, only a different color. Companies buy these machines, alter them slightly and market them under their more respectable name. I personally would just get the HF one and save yourself some cash. The core machine is the same on all of them. Gabe ------- From: "M K (Skip)Campbell Jr." Date: Thu Aug 9, 2001 12:32 am Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] horizontal vertical metal cutting bandsaw I have been using the Jet 4x6 for about 3 years (244.00 with a 20.00 rebate) and love it. No problems at all. I did modify the vise angle set with a nut made to fit the slot under the table and a long T-bolt so I can change the angle without having to get a wrench on the bottom side. Also scribed a line for 90 and 45 on the table for quick vise setting. Also welded up an angle iron stand to replace the cheesy sheet metal original. I compare to the chinese machines and believe it's worth the difference. Jet is from Taiwan. The castings are cleaner and it just looks more professionally made. Regards, Skip Campbell Ft. Worth, TEXAS ------- From: sleykinx~xxa... Date: Thu Aug 9, 2001 8:01 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] horizontal vertical metal cutting bandsaw The only real difference I have noticed is that some have a stamped steel/welded blade guide holder and some have cast iron. I have the stamped steel holder and though it works fine it does flex a bit more than I like and I did have to re-weld it. ------- From: "RON Shaw" Date: Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:26 am Subject: Re: Cut-Off Saw vs Metal cutting band saw Guess I'd have to come down on the other side of the discussion re: cut-off saws band saw. I have a Harbor Freight 14" cut-off saw, and while it will certainly grind a piece of steel in two, it makes a god-awful racket doing it, spews sparks and little pieces of hot metal everywhere (I have a scorched place in my garage drywall to prove it), and won't make a straight cut no matter what kind of disk I use. My Atlas-Craftsman "Power Hacksaw" (NOW we're on topic!) on the other hand will produce a clean, straight cut every time, doesn't wake up babies two blocks away, nor does it threaten to set fire to my shop with every use. Time is money in commercial use, however, so I'm sure that's why a metal supply house would end up using a cut-off saw more often. Ron Shaw ------- From: michaelhenryx~xxm... Date: Fri Aug 10, 2001 9:30 pm Subject: Re: horizontal vertical metal cutting bandsaw --- In atlas_craftsmanx~xxy..., Biltutx~xxa... wrote: > Gabe, thanks for the advice.....seems to be the consensus of everyone.. > So i will go back to shopping for the hf. I've read that some of the better brands do more QC (either at the fabricator or here in the States). Don't know if it's true, but if so, it would be a reason to justify a higher price and might increase the chances of getting a decent saw. Regardless of brand, it seems that owners universally recommend checking the gearbox for loose casting sand or other crud. You'll also want to spring for a good brand of saw blade to replace whatever comes with the saw. Lenox seems to be the choice, although Starret used to be considered pretty good. I had enough money to spring for the Jet and it's worked out quite well for me. Cut square right out of the box and only needed a little fiddling to realign the bracket that hits the shut-off switch at the end of a cut. No sand in my gear box, either. ------- From: Joe Burns Date: Sat Aug 11, 2001 6:06 pm Subject: 108.1502 Craftsman Power Hacksaw Hi, I've had a Craftsman power hacksaw for a while & finally got the motivation to clean it up this weekend. It's model #108.1502. I need to make a stand and motor mount for it before I can make it run. It looks pretty simple - there don't seem to be alot of adjustments to make. I couldn't get any info for it on the Sears website. I also searched all the past messages from this group, but couldn't find any useful info. I'm curious to know who the manufacturer is (Atlas ??? - I thought they started with 101.xxxx). It would also be great to get a manual or instruction sheet for it if possible. Thanks for any help....Joe ------- From: michaelhenryx~xxm... Date: Sun Aug 12, 2001 12:22 pm Subject: Re: 108.1502 Craftsman Power Hacksaw Joe, check your email, if you haven't already. I just emailed you the cover page of the Atlas hacksaw manual. If it looks the same, I can email you (or anyone else) a 1 MB PDF file of the manual for the Atlas Model 4350 power hacksaw. It's 5 pages and was scanned, OCR'd, and converted to a PDF file. You'll need the Adobe Acrobat Reader, which is available as a free download, to view or print it. ------- From: helpx~xx4... Date: Sun Aug 12, 2001 5:37 pm Subject: Re: Valuable accessory to Bandsaw- Rick: A more thorough description will be posted this week with more pictures. http://www.powerlink.net/perocon/web/sawdemoA.jpg http://www.powerlink.net/perocon/web/saw.jpg http://www.powerlink.net/perocon/web/sawdemo1.jpg FYI, Yesterday I cut a block of 14" x 7"x 3" aluminum tool and jig plate with a 4" x 6" saw ( 8 pitch wood blade- 2 cuts) As you can start the cut with the head nearly vertical, (maybe 20 degrees), and the speed can be nearly nothing, you have thus increase its working capacity. The spring you now have will put the entire head weight on the blade, with attendendent deflection and vibration problems. Re the 2" of stroke, The basic cylinder is a commercial hydraulic unit with more then 8" of stroke. As the picture shows the setup, this works through a pivot point of the head- Think of your spring- it does not compress or expand more then 2" either. If you use this device on the leg of the saw, you may use a greater amount of available travel. This device works well on larger saws too. You can replace the 1/4" tubing to the valve with longer ones so you can put the valve somewhere else. We also sell an aditional valve ($24) which is variable flow in one direction, and full flow in the other- very helpful in repeat cuts, as you can lift the head only as much as you need, and the cut speed will be the same as the previous one. On Fri, 10 August 2001, Rick Kruger wrote: > A most interesting product. I'm not clear on how it increases the size of > work that can be cut or what you mean by "It only uses about 2" of the > available stroke". > You might consider posting it to this group as well, perhaps with more > images and explanation than the one you provided below. A lot of members, > a lot with the 4x6 bandsaws. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/7x10minilathe/messages/ > Rick > > At 04:30 AM 8/10/01 -0700, you wrote: > >http://www.powerlink.net/perocon/web/saw.jpg > >Above is a picture link to a hydraulic device we make for all ot the 4x6 > >imported bandsaws. This is an improvement which makes these saws equally > >twice as valuable as thwy are now. > >We make and market these devices here in Maine.It replaces the spring > >mechanism on cutoff saws, as well as existing hydraulic or pneumatic ones. > >The long length of stroke allows you to increase the size of work you can > >cut. As viewed in the picture, It only uses about 2" of the available > >stroke- Thus most of the cylinder acts as a cushion The double acting > >hydraulic cylinder is about 19" long, and speed is controlled by turning > >the red valve. The yoke of the cylinder is adjustable and mounted on an 18" > >flatbar. Included are a bushing and fasteners for the ball end of the > >cylinder to mount on the bandsaw head. This unit is brand new - > > We also make accessories for these import saws (Replacement bearings, > >bearing shafts{straight and eccentric}, and handles. Additionally we have > >a fullflow/variable flow valve available for repeat cuts.- > > Also a line of sheet > >metal benders from 6" to 24" long, as well as our previously mentioned 6" > >atlas accessories. We take cash, checks, or money orders. > >Our retail cost for this is greater then the price you see on ebay, where > >we always have one listed for sale ( user name "forem") We decided to use > >ebay for our market research a couple of years ago > >rather then hire a commercial firm to do so, and the feedback and > >improvements from customers has been great. As a result, we will always > >honor the price (and money back guarantee) if we are offering of our own > >devices on ebay. You can email us or call me at 1-800-603-0323 if you have > >specific application questions > >Our address is: > >4M Tool Co. RR 3 Box 6305 Vassalboro, Maine 04989-9501 > >Thanks for your interest. Regards, George O'Connor [SEE UPDATED POST 05 MARCH 2003 BELOW] ------- From: sleykinx~xxa... Date: Sun Aug 12, 2001 6:36 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Valuable accessory to Bandsaw- FWIW I have one of these cylinders with the variable ratio valves (fast up slow down) on my 4X6 and it is everything George says it is and more. I had to modify the mount for mine as I have built a stand with tray (for coolant) I have found it increases the blade life at least double and the saw cuts more repeatably. Just one more "toy" that paid for itself :) Although it is a bit off topic I can make pictures available for any that are interested. Glenn Neff Medford, OR ------- From: sleykinx~xxa... Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:14 am Subject: Bandsaw feed pics uploaded to files section I have uploaded 4 pics of my bandsaw showing the sawfeed that George mentioned and the stand I built out of angle iron. I still need to paint the stand and add the coolant pump and tank to the shelf below. The more I use the saw the less I am inclined to add coolant. I bought a stick of saw lube (sort of a beeswax/grease mix) and it is much cleaner than I would suspect coolant to be. The tray is "dented" in the middle to let the coolant go to a drain if I ever install it. The only tricky part of the stand (besides bending the 10 Ga sheet) is welding the supports to the pan so they are aligned with the saw. I made the tabs and bolted them to the saw and then tacked em to the pan with the saw still bolted up. Removed the saw and finished welding. Again I appologize for the off topic posts and pics. Feel free to delete them as soon as you like. Glenn Neff Medford, OR ------- From: Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 12:23 pm Subject: New file uploaded to atlas_craftsman This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the atlas_craftsman group. File : /rotary table & 6" atlas lathe/clamphacksaw2.gif Uploaded by : lloydsondrax~xxm... Description : Hacksaw that I just completed You can access this file at the URL [ALL TOGETHER -- NO BREAK] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/files/rotary%20ta ble%20%26%206%22%\20atlas%20lathe/clamphacksaw2.gif ------- Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:09:01 -0000 From: "jumbo75007" Subject: micro mark portable band saw and base I realize that this is not a web site for the band saw but several people have this bandsaw and I would like to share my experience. As everyone who has the bandsaw and base knows, the material hold down clamp leaves something to be desired. This is what I did. 1. Remove the entire hold down (4 bolts). 2. Remove the front fixed clamp stop (2 bolts). 3. Move the front fixed clamp stop over to the right, mark the holes and drill. The original bolts (8mm) were tapped into the hold down assembly, but I just drilled clearance holes and used 5/16" bolts and nuts. 4. Test assemble the entire hold down unit next to the saw. I had to -slightly- grind the right aft corner of the unit so that the rear rollers on the saw did not hit the corner. The saw itself did bump the hold down unit, but the saw blade was below the clamping surface prior to bumping which is what is necessary. Make sure that the front and rear rollers miss the hold down unit. Move the unit as needed for the proper fit. Use a square to line up the hold down unit. I got the unit to about 1/8" from the saw. Mark the holes and drill clearance holes for the 8mm bolts and nuts. The next part may or may not be necessary, I did it, but the movable face of the clamp is so off center, even after turning it around, that on short pieces of material, a piece of wood for a spacer will be needed to keep the clamp from twisting. 5. Prior to assembly of the entire clamp unit to the base, I removed the cotter pins in the movable face of the clamp and disassembled that part of the clamp. The movable face needs a 9/16" hole drilled in the angled part of the clamp unit (same as the upper hole). You need to turn the movable clamp over which entales inverting the bolt. You can make a small washer on your lathe or just ignore the movement of the bottom of the pin. This will make sense when you inspect the clamp bracket and pin. Probably a better solution would be to use some flat head bolts and bolt a length of steel on the face of the clamp and use spacers for any short piece of material that you are cutting to keep the movable face of the clamp from twisting and losing its grip. Dan Fuller Carrollton, Texas -------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:26:23 +0200 From: Douglas Burkett Subject: Slitting Saw I just tried using a new slitting saw, resounding failure. I was using it to cut a slot at right angles to a .25 steel rod, the rod is easily cut with a hacksaw. So I'm certain it isn't hardened. The saw is stamped HSS 1/32 29 teeth 2 1/2 inches in diameter, the saw was mounted in the 1 inch sherline arbor, the saw cut in about a 16th or so and started deflecting and screeching as it rubbed against edges of the kerf. The rod was mounted in the v-groove of the sherline vise pointing up the z axis. I had the saw as low along z axis as it would go and still clear the vise. I didn't want it to deflect the rod as it cut. I was using the y-axis feed to move the rod into the saw. Good grief what a racket. Is this the wrong saw for steel? Wrong way to clamp? I just hope I didn't ruin the saw, the rod got fairly hot. Could it have been hardening the work as it was cutting? Thanks, Doug ------- Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 08:29:06 -0400 From: "Ty Hoeffer" Subject: RE: Slitting Saw Probably you were running the saw at to high an RPM, and too much Feed. A 1/32" saw isn't very stiff. Slow rpm, slow feed, small Depth of cut, plenty of cutting fluid, is the way to success. Too fast & you'll dull the saw in a heartbeat. My $.02 Ty ------- Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 10:31:24 -0400 From: RichD Subject: Re: Slitting Saw Doug, use plenty of cutting oil. The saw RPM should be dead slow. ~50 RPM. RichD ------- Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:07:55 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: Slitting Saw When a tool has a diameter of 2.5 inches a slow rotational speed still translates into a high linear speed for the saw teeth. This is why when I mill with a 0.025" cutter I set the spindle for its maximum RPM of 10,200. Since your saw blade is 100 times bigger in diameter (and therefore circumference) it would require 1/100 of the rotational speed to achieve the same linear speed. Therefore something in the 100 RPM range would probably work. This was a good lesson, and one you will likely never forget. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:26:21 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Slitting Saw >Odd that I don't remember seeing anywhere that the rpm should be so low for >the slitting saw. Doug, the instructions that come with the slitting saw holder begin as follows: "Using the correct cutting speed is an important part of using slitting saws correctly. You must realize that when you exceed the cutting speed with high speed steels, the dulling process can be instantaneous. It isn't you get shorter tool life, you get "no life"! This can be expensive in time and money because slitting saws usually cost so much you don't have spares. Another problem that happens with slitting saws is that one edge gets dull before the other. This causes the blade to deflect as it cuts. How much it deflects is somewhat a function of the blade's thickness. A common error that can be made is putting a slitting saw on the spindle upside down when they will only cut one way. Look carefully at the direction the teeth are facing." Your experinece reminds me that perhaps it would be a good idea to include some sample speeds in that writeup, as it does depend on the user to do a SFM calculation for their particular project. Sorry for your problem. Craig Libuse ------- Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:55:25 EDT From: tadici283x~xxcs.com Subject: Re: Re: Slitting Saw The Jewelers here will know right off that a sliting saw is a replacement for a hand saw, meaning that you want to go as slow as a hand saw would go, this is not possible with some machines that have a min. speed but dead slow is the order of the day, the size and small cutting teeth make them venerable to certain damage and quick too. Here you need the right cutting lube for the job, heat kills mega-fast. On one machine (non Sherline I use my cutters at say 30 rpms) and even then if the material is difficult the cutters show the signs of wear. Cutters of this type are costly but can be helpful due to cutting on a mill is accurate, there is a depth limit on these saws as well. They are not much good over 1/4 inch in soft material, due to deflection and thin construction, I have had friends try to cut a two inch block of brass only to find out how foolhardy that can be. If you work with larger saws, these too are less than effective compared to other methods. I have learned over the years, many times very very hard lessons, that my natural desire to get the job done fast needs to be tempered with large amounts of patience, or my scrap bin will keep getting larger. Chris of Bradenton FLA Horotecx~xxcs.com ------- Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 18:16:25 -0000 From: "paul_probus" Subject: Re: band saw or chop saw -- Sorry, its long --- In sherlinex~xxy..., "kevin_sedota" wrote: > My arm is getting tired from the hack saw. > I want to get something that can be used to cut things up to about > 1.5 inchs square in materials as hard as 316SS or 1018 steels. I've > been considering a chop saw and running abrasive cutoff wheels but > I saw in the last enco flyer a small portable, horizontal band saw. > I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these small band > saws. Are they worth the price? Do the work well enough? etc > Any info would be appreciated. I mostly see the abrasive chop saws used on "hollow" materials (ie. materials made from relatively thin sheet metal), such as wall studs, square and round tubing, etc. Solid materials cut with it are typically small and/or hardened. I see a chop saw as more of a secondary tool, compared to the bandsaw. My personal preference would be the bandsaw. If you are not in a hurry to get it, you may want to sign up at Homier's website to get email notification of their sales. They have truckload sales at different cities throughout the country, the only problem is that you may be waiting up to 6 months (at least they seem to be in Fredericksburg and Richmond VA every 6 months, they may come to other cities more often). Its all rebuilt American tools or Chinese stuff. They do have about the best price on the 4x6 bandsaw at $99, however, if you order one through their web site, you will pay as much for shipping as you would to buy the saw from Harbor Frieght and HF frequently puts their's on "sale" by doing free shipping. With the possible exception of Homier's brand, all the other brands of the 4x6 bandsaw are made by the same factory and it does not matter whether you buy from Enco, Grizzly, HF, etc. Shop by price. The reason I leave Homier off, is that their machine seems to be so much cheaper than the other brands, it may not be the same machine. They sell a 7x12 metal lathe that is equivalent to the other brands 7x12, but it is made at a different factory. They also carry the portable bandsaw (hand bandsaw) that others have mentioned for the same price ($99). It is only two speed, but it does come with the base. A portable bandsaw is nice, but I would recommend buying the Milwaukee variable speed one over one of these two speed imported ones. Of the two choices in bandsaws (ie. 4x6 vs. portable), you would get more for your money buying the 4x6 bandsaw over either the portable bandsaw from Milwaukee or the imported version. I have used a 4x6 bandsaw that was branded as Dayton (as in Dayton electric motors, it was made in China) and I found that it would cut pretty square cuts 2" deep or less. Deeper cuts required leaving extra material to be ground off. I did not do any tweaking to it, since it was owned by the previous company that I worked for and I was getting paid by the hour, therefore, I had no real incentive to do any tweaking to it. I don't believe it would have taken too much tweaking to make it a better saw, of course, I don't know how much it was tweaked prior to my working there. Re-visiting the abrasive chopsaw, Grizzly sells a base for attaching a 4" or a 4-1/2" angle grinder to and another base for attaching a 7" or a 9" angle grinder to. I bought the Homier 7" angle grinder with the purpose to mount it to either a homemade base or Grizzly's base. I really don't need a 14" abrasive saw, the 7" should be fine for the few times I would need it. I tested the Homier 7" angle grinder with an abrasive cutting wheel and it cut (by hand, I haven't made up or bought a mount, yet) through a 1/2" piece of steel (crappy steel, I will admit) with no problem and quicker than I thought (I never used an abrasive chopsaw and I did not know what to expect). I had intended to buy the 7" chopsaw sold by HF and Cummins (another company like Homier), but everything I have read said that these are only good for very light gauge materials and comparing the amp ratings of the 7" angle grinder to the small chopsaw showed that the angle grinder should be much more powerful than the small chopsaw. I didn't mean to make this response so long, sorry. Paul ------- Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:31:38 EDT From: wanlikerx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Cut Off saw/Band Saw [sherline group] In a message dated 7/3/2002: > been considering a chop saw and running abrasive cutoff wheels but I > saw in the last enco flyer a small portable, horizontal band saw I have both, I use the hacksaw when it is important that the characteristics of the metal stay the same, a chop saw will get the workpiece extremely hot at the cutting point, and sometimes this leads to really hard spots. I use it for rough construction work, the band saw for work to be machined. bill CCED ------- Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:51:00 -0400 From: Alex Barrie Subject: Re: Bandsaw worm gear Most Taiwanese stuff should be interchangeable, usually the only difference between models is basically paint color and the manufactures name plate. try Grizzly, Harbor Freight, and others shop around and see what you find. speaking of 4X6 try some of these helpful pages: http://www.tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/wrk_tips.htm http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/news/article_index.htm some of these are not totally 4X6 but browse, ------- Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 02:48:48 -0000 From: "jumbo75007" Subject: OT: Micro Mark Portable Band Saw I have had a MM portable band saw for some time now. I had made a modification to the vice on the portable table, but it was not satisfactory enough for quick cutting. After much frustration, I removed the entire vice assembly. I drilled new holes and bolted down a drill press vice to the band saw table. I used a Harbor Freight #37956 vice. I just looked up the number on the web site and they don't have it. I bought mine at the HF store about 1 year ago. Probably, any LOW sitting drill press vice will work; just check out the clearance around the housing of the band saw next to the vice. I could not get the jaws of this vice any closer than 3/4", so I got a piece of 1/4" x 1 1/2" steel and made new jaws. Now, the jaws go to within a fraction of an inch of the blade. This modification has been totally sucessful! Sorry, no pictures, I don't have a digital cameral. My opinion: If you can squeeze the Horizontal/Vertical Metal Band Saw into your shop area, buy it instead of the Portable Band Saw, unless of course you have a need for a portable band saw. Dan Fuller Carrollton, Texas ------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 05:18:29 -0000 From: "Donald Clement" Subject: Re: Bandsaw blade, There is a yahoo group for the 4x6 metal bandsaw at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4x6bandsaw All the guides for this bandsaw are ball bearing rollers. Cool blocks are not needed for this bandsaw. They would be useful on my 14" wood/metalbandsaw though. Don Clement Running Springs, California ------- Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:57:26 -0800 From: "Orrin B. Iseminger" Subject: Re: Chunking up metal At 11:45 PM 11/30/2002 -0000, you wrote: > What do you use to rough cut bar stock and plate? > I just bought a supposed metal cutting blade for a small tabletop > bandsaw I have, but ordinary steel just takes the teeth off. I think > the speed of this little bandsaw is too fast for proper metal > cutting, hardening the work before it cuts it. > Does anyone else use such a small bandsaw? Can you get blades that > will cut well? Maybe I have just have bad technique. > Are there other small-scale solutions? What about an abrasive wheel > in a chop saw or table saw? your replies! Bill in Halifax If the band saw was originally intended for wood, blade speed is much too fast for cutting steel. I bought a wood-cutting band saw to use on aluminum, but I'd never dream of using it for steel. If you want to cut steel with it, add a jack shaft and a couple more vee-belt pulleys to add another step of speed reduction. Of course, if you buy new parts this will cost, considerably. You'd be better off getting a Harbor Freight 4" X 6" metal cutting band saw. I got mine on a recent sale for $149 US. I doubt I'll ever bother to convert the wood band saw to slower operating speeds. I would stay away from abrasive cutoff saws. Granted, mild steel supposedly doesn't have enough carbon in it for hardening purposes; but, something happens in the stuff when it is cut with an abrasive saw or with an oxy-acetylene cutting torch. In both cases the cut surface is hard enough to resist machining. However, if you use your pedestal grinder to dispose of the hardened skin (being careful to not overheat the steel, of course), you won't have any trouble with followup machining. Another operation for chunking up is chain drilling. It is commonly used for making model locomotive frames. Regards, Orrin B. Iseminger Colton, Washington, USA So many projects, so little time. http://users.moscow.com/oiseming/lc_ant_p/index.htm ------- Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:44:41 -0600 From: Ron Roske Subject: Re: Chunking up metal Orrin, Bill & all, I read your comments and though that I might add a bit from experience. I often turn small pins and such from cold rolled steel rod. When I need a piece of rod for a project, I just whack a chunk with my abrasive chop saw and have never had a problem with a skin developing. I just let it air cool and chuck it up. Don't know as I have tried using a piece that was cut off with a torch. I can just do the cut off with the saw faster than I can start up the torch, I guess. Have. a good one, all. RonR ------- Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:15:24 -0500 From: "Tracy Atkinson" Subject: Re: Digest Number 995 saws When considering versatile saws which require little space. Don't overlook the sabre saw. A good quality machine will cut almost anything with good precision. There is a very wide variety of types and sizes of blade readily available. It will probalby do much of the work which you require using it in conventional fashion. If not, you can easily make a table to mount it in upside down allowing for table grooves for miter gauges, fences, etc. My Ryobi has stood me in good stead in this regard. Tracy Atkinson, Avon CT ------- Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:34:55 -0500 From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re:small bandsaws Proxon also makes a small variable speed bandsaw. Model Expo, among others sells it http://www.modelexpo-online.com/default.htm Regards, Bradford Chaucer ------- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:07:49 -0000 From: "Bryan Hassing " Subject: Questions on using slitting saws I am about to order the slitting saw holder and some blades for my Sherline lathe with milling column. Are there any do/don'ts regarding the use of slitting saws such as cutting postions or types of cuts that aren't safe? Also, I will be cutting aluminum, brass, and plastic almost exclusively. Are these soft materials cut best with blades with relatively fewer teeth to clear the chips effectively? Thanks. ------- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:03:02 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Questions on using slitting saws Hi Bryan, One thing to always check is the cutting speed. You need to determine the appropriate cutting speed for the material that your cutting (typically measured in feet/sec or feet/min). You then need to factor in your RPM and blade diameter. It's really easy to run the blade too fast and dull it. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:52:36 -0500 From: "Bill Rutiser" Subject: Re: Questions on using slitting saws Be sure to run the saw in the right direction. They seem to be ruined instantly if run backwards. Please don't ask why I know this. Bill ------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 18:45:44 EST From: cmiller231x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Bandsaw question [SMALL METAL BANDSAWS WITH QUESTIONABLE LUBE FROM FACTORY] Relace the metal cover on the gear box with clear plastic to keep an eye on lube. Chris ------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:02:33 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Bandsaw question There are some differences in the 4x6 that I have noted. The most obvious, if you look closely, are the blade guide holders. On one, they are cast iron and are held internally in the the top frame. The other has guides stamped out of steel, and are mounted external to the top frame. The top frame of the cast iron guides model is somewhat heavier. Other than that, the motors are the big difference. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 06:43:50 -0800 (PST) From: helpx~xx4mtool.com Subject: -Bandsaw question - Differences k-qx~xxwebtv.net wrote: > Are all these 4 x 6" imported bandsaws basically the same, or does one > supplier have a better one than another? > I've seen differences in the stated motor horse power and in speeds. > Who has the best one, or does it matter? Thanks, Ken Our experiences with these saws have shown us that there are very few differences- we have seen about 6 or 7 varieties- made in Taiwan, PRC, or India. In fact, some are direct casting "copies" of each other-. As has been stated, most of the differences are in the blade guides and motors. These saws often come with an inexpensive import motor- (usually made for 50 Hz, instead of the U.S. 60 Hz.) The motors run, but as they are running "overrated" they burn out more quickly. Most of them come without a thermal overload protector switch (reset button)- If you cut long stock and it isn't supported properly, the blade can become "wedged" in the work when the stock moves- this can cause a motor to burn up (if you are not constantly watching your cut as it isn't thermally protected. Regarding your bearings, most use standard 6000 bearings, and give you plenty of adjustability. Overall, any of these saw will give you very good performances if properly maintained and adjusted. In most cases they are highly preferable to abrasive saws as they don't impart as much heat to the work- this is critical in tool and stainless steel to prevent work hardening. Bi metal saw blades (in the $20-$25 range) are well worth the higher cost compared to carbon steel blades, both in longevity and ability to cut tough materials (like stainless steel). You should be able to buy one of these saws in the $200-250 range anywhere in the country (not counting shipping). The best thing that can be said for them is that you are buying a solid mass of cast iron (over 100 lbs), but the legs of sheetmetal or the wheels are laughable. The usefulness of this tool for material removal in any home or small shop will make it invaluable. Our company 4M Tool makes an inexpensive "feed control" for these units (less then $50) which replaces the tensioning spring that most of these come with originally.- additionally we make replacement bearing shafts (cam followers), and stock some replacement handles and knobs too. - at the very bottom of this posting, we are amending a "form letter with picture links FYI. Regards, George O'Connor georgex~xx4mtool 4 M Tool Co. Bandsaw List We make and market these devices here in Maine. It replaces the spring mechanism on cutoff saws, as well as existing hydraulic or pneumatic ones. The long length of stroke allows you to increase the size of work you can cut. As viewed in the picture, It only uses about 2" of the available stroke- Thus most of the cylinder acts as a cushion The double acting hydraulic cylinder is about 19" long, and speed is controlled by turning the red valve. The yoke of the cylinder is adjustable and mounted on an 18" flatbar. Included are a bushing and fasteners for the ball end of the cylinder to mount on the bandsaw head. This unit is brand new - http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/saw.jpg http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/sawdemoA.jpg Our website (www.4mtool.com ) is under construction. We also make accessories for these import saws, described below. Our retail cost for this is greater then the price you see on ebay, but of course, we would be happy to sell you one at that price ($48) plus the actual shipping cost for 8lbs. (we will give you a UPS or USPS cost) We decided to use ebay for our "market research" a couple of years ago rather then hire a commercial firm to do so, and the feedback and improvements from customers has been great. As a result, we will always honor the price (and money back guarantee) if we are offering of our own devices on ebay. You can call me at 1-800-603-0323 if you have specific application questions. Cast iron handwheels for saw: http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/.JPG Above is a picture link to the cast iron handwheel we offer. As you can see, it is not centerdrilled, as there are various shaft sizes it might accommodate. We can have it drilled to a standard fractional or metric hole size for a $2.50 charge. The wheel weighs just under 3 lbs, and our cost for this item is $9.00 plus shipping. The diameter is 5". We have other sizes available from 3" to 8" and would be happy to quote you a cost, but this appears to be the ideal replacement size for 4" x 6" saws. Also there is no little knob included. Most users do not require them, and indeed, if they do, they drill it to accept a shoulder bolt themselves. We can supply machine handles as follows: Fixed type (steel, plated) with 1/4" 20 threads- $8 Fixed type (steel, plated) with metric M6 threads- $7 Rotating type (steel, plated) with 1/4" 20 threads- $10 Rotating type (steel, plated) with Metric M6 threads- $9 We can also supply a complete unit with handwheel, nominal center hole and revolving knob for $24 plus shipping [$5 priority]. ** Saw Bearing Guide Set: Our offering is for 3 pieces, enough to do one (of your 2) saw guide assemblies. One stationary cam follower, one eccentric one, and one for the back support of your blade. The 1/8" rod is for adjusting or holding the cam assembly from turning as you tighten the nut. It allows you greater versatility when you need to change your blade thickness. (from about 0.02" to 0.06" or.5 to 1.5mm) The pitch of the threads on the shafts ( one coarse, one fine) allows you to tell them apart. The original bearing shaft was cold rolled steel turned from a hex shape, which requires a very thin wrench (metric) to adjust or hold it- Even if you lose our rod, you can use a small rod or drill bit to do the job. The shafts are made from O-1 tool steel. Web picture link: http://members.dialmaine.com/perocon/web/brg2.JPG As stated, the set of 3 bearings and shafts are enough to do one set of guides. The cost of this set is $24.50- we also sell a complete set of 6 {enough for the complete saw change out} for $40. Postage for either is $5 for priority mail. We can also supply the bearings without shafts (but with a new metric snap ring) at $4.50 each. These are ABFMA/ABEC-1 double sealed radial bearings, which are 10 x 26 x 8mm (.3937" x1.0236" x .3149" thick). *** Variable Valve Info: . This is a variable flow valve (brass), which when installed on our feed control, allows full flow one way, and variable flow the other way. This eliminates the need to open the valve every time you lift your saw head. This is only a refinement desired by some users with high production needs. It can be installed quickly in tandem with the othervalve, or simply replace it. The cost of this is $29 + $5 Shipping (priority mail). Our address is: George O'Connor 4M Tool Co. 1044 Riverside Drive Vassalboro ME 04989-4119 Money orders, personal or business check are fine. I can also now take credit cards via paypal.com (see data below) Regards, George O'Connor p.s. If you have any problems with your purchase, please let me know so that I can attempt to rectify them. Thanks again. Info for credit cards: Please use georgex~xx4mtool.com for email and leaveoptional boxes blank. Link: https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=georgex~xx4mtool.com or www.paypal.com ------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:40:56 EST From: CaptonZapx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Bandsaw question In a message dated 3/7/03, k-qx~xxwebtv.net wrote: > There is a Harbor Freight store in Harrisburg, PA. I took a ride there > to check out the 4 x 6" bandsaw. > It was on sale for $149. Needless to say I bought one. > Now, what (if any) modifications have to be made?? Thanks again, Ken PA The first thing I would do is to take it all apart and wash ALL the grit and grime out of it. Take the drive wheel out and check the fit of the bushing, clean it out, and put it back together. Make sure that the axle rides on the portion of the bushing that does not have the oil grooves in it. I have seen them installed that way, which isn't good for area loading. Also, try this site: http://www.tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html Enjoy, they are a great tool. Get it's little brother, the Porta Band, and all things are possible. 8) CZ ------- Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:21:14 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Bandsaw question Some people think the legs are horrible. Mine are pretty bad, but the saw is usable as is. But, it definitely is a bit wobbly, and when you put some really heavy, long stock in the vise, it gets worse. You will have to tinker with the blade guides, and find the real 90 degree position of the vise, to get it to cut straight. The pins the guide rollers run on are eccentric, so you can adjust the tightness with which it grips the band, and also adjust the top and bottom guide to make the blade run straight. (I hope you have the roller guides, not the slotted ones.) The lower wheel is held on the shaft with an angled setscrew. It kept working loose. I have already retapped the hole to the next largest size. If you let this go on too long, the bore it the wheel gets enlarged, and it gets worse quickly, as the wheel wobbles. No matter what you do, the wheel 'walks' off the shaft on some units, and that eventually wrecks the worm gear. Might be a good place to put some Loctite. The upper wheel runs on a journal bearing, and needs occasional lubing. That's most of the trouble I've had with mine. I've had it about 10 years, now, I think. Jon ------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 03:50:19 +0200 From: "Isak Levinson" Subject: Slitting saw holder [sherline group] I got a new problem. I made a slitting saw holder from a sherline blank. Machined it in the spindle. The center of the holder is 1/2" with less than .02mm tolerance (machined while the holder is in the spindle). I've reduced this diameter .01mm at a time and tried to fit the slitting saw until it fit. When I'm using the saw it cuts from one side only, as if it is not centered. Is it a common problem with slitting saws or have I done something wrong? Thanks, Isak. ------- Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 18:15:43 -0800 (PST) From: Skip Evans Subject: Re: Slitting saw holder I also just built a slitting saw arbor and have the same problem. Unless you are dead on you can't help but have this problem. I considered buying one but their tolerances weren't any better than I could produce. Your problem is not only the arbor. You have to consider spindle runout, concentricity of the collet, etc. I am going to modify the procedure used to build mine just to see if I can tighten the tolerances but in the end it will probably not cut using the full diameter of the saw. Skip Evans http://skipevans.homestead.com ------- Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:38:02 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Slitting saw holder Hi Skip and Isak: The problem is probably not with the arbors you made; many slitting saws are not concentric with their center holes. This will not greatly affect your ability to take a cut, but it is pretty annoying. Don't worry too much about it...if the saw cuts OK, you're in business. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 20:24:24 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Slitting saw holder > Hi Marcus, Isik, > Won't the teeth wear out faster on one side? I've seen this with > Sherline saws and Sherline arbor. A few re-adjustments usually gets it > a little better. Alan KM6VV Hi Alan: Yes they will.You are quite correct, and this is not an ideal thing. However, even with a perfectly concentric arbor, the saw will often still run out. Buying premium quality US or European saws will make the situation a bit better, but even these run out. There's little that can be done about it short of regrinding the saw while it is mounted on its arbor, in the machine spindle in which it will be run. Most people just accept the runout. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:51:39 -0000 From: "geneking2001" Subject: Re: Slitting saw holder Skip Evans wrote: > Alan I feel the same, but I do not know what else to do. What I have seen that works well is to make an arbor to fit in your 4 jaw chuck. Then adjust the jaws until all or most of the teeth are cutting all around. gene ------- Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 11:43:51 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Slitting saw holder Hi Gene, that's an idea. However, the chuck may get in the way. Using a DTI to get the blade mounted correctly in the arbor also may help. The few times I've ran mine, it seemed like it was hard on the blade, and that the blade wouldn't last long. It's still working, but I wonder how long. Brass and aluminum cuts OK, but steel sounds like a real strain on the blade. Slow speeds and lube seem to be the key. The saws won't take much speed. Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 03:46:20 -0000 From: "mmurray70" Subject: Slitting Saw Help! [TAIGTOOLS GROUP] I really need to use a slitting saw for a type of part i'm making. I ordered one from Nick and it got here today. I wrote some code and gave it a try but it seems way to big for the Taig. The motor stalls everytime. I've even tried it with manual cuts and the results are less than desireable for what I need it to do. I have a Dremal cutting tool here that is similer to the slitting saw only much, much smaller. It has a 1/8 shank and 1/2" (approximately) diameter. Believe it or not I can get better results from this cutter than I can from my new slitting saw. Unfortunatly the 1/2" was a little too small for what i need. I really need something with about a 1" diameter but I assumed the larger taig saw would still cut ok. Is there anything else out there that will cut a slit and is bigger than 1/2" and smaller than 2 1/2"? For the record, I'm machineing small parts from 1/4 aluminium plate, 1/4 end facing the spindle. I need the saw to put a slit in the part (part is about 3/4") and then proceed to cut the part off the plate so it has room for the next part (there will be many of the same part in a row of plate). If i cant use the saw to cut off the part then the next part will have to be spaced over 2 1/2" away to allow clearance for the saw blade. Obviously this would waste a lot of stock. So I really need either to find a way to make the slitting saw cut off the part, OR get a smaller slitting saw that would allow the spacing between the parts to be more reasonable. Please post any advice on how I can solve this problem. Thanks. Mark ------- Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:00:46 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Slitting Saw Help! Mark, You should look in the MSC catalog for slitting saws - they are available in every diameter, thickness and pitch. I'll contact you off list about sending you a sample from my slitting saw library. I think that it may be that the motor on the CNC mill is a little underpowered for the large size of slitting saw Taig sells - I'll have to look into that. See our web pages http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:53:57 +0900 From: "Mark Thomas" Subject: RE: Slitting Saw Help! Mark, I use the Taig slitting saw from time to time, and haven't found the problems you are having. The key to the saw is revs and feed. First only run the saw on the lowest speed your pulley combination can offer(think of a mill bit with 60 cutters as opposed to 2 or 4). Second keep the feed down. Now the reason I've said keep it down is that I hesitate to give an exact number here. Initially I would test the setup by hand and then set my feed rates based on what I thought would emulate the best hand feed rate. I've cut steel as well as aluminum and brass using this method, and haven't seized the saw yet (lubrication is a must). Unless you are using a very small motor I think you can have success with the standard slitting saw. Cheers, Mark ------- Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:05:04 -0700 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Re: Slitting Saw Help! I'd buy one of Taig's blank arbors for a couple of bucks and make my own arbor for the slitting saw. Just screw the blank arbor onto the spindle and start cutting away. I'd do it like this: 1. Face off the arbor end Now, you'll make the washer that holds the blade onto the arbor 2. Make a cut about 0.032 deep until about 0.125 from the edge of the outside edge of the arbor. 3. Drill/bore a 3/8 diameter hole about 0.1 deep. This completes the end of the washer that comes in contact with the blade. 4. Part the piece off. You've now got the washer. Next, you'll make the arbor itself. 5. Face off the remaining part of the arbor on the lathe. 6. Use the center drill and tap drill for a 10-32 screw to thread a hole on the axis. This will hold the washer to the remaing arbor. 7. Turn the end of the arbor down to the 3/8 inch diameter for about 0.1 inches This is what actually holds the slitting saw. 8. Make a slight cut into the facing surface of the arbor between the 3/8 inch diameter to about 1/8 inch from the edge of the arbor. This provides a means of keeping the blade perpendicular to the arbor/spindle even if there's a slight radius where the 3/8 inch diameter cut ends. 9. Make a small washer with a 5/8 outside diameter and a 10-32 clearance hole. This allows you to clamp the washer onto the arbor. And, you've got an inexpensive arbor for your slitting saw. Of course, you can make arbors for different blades. If the Taig arbor diameter is too large to get the depth of cut you need, you can turn it down to a smaller diameter before you make the washer and cut for the slitting saw diameter. Carol & Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:07:52 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Slitting Saw Help! Also, it's almost essential to use a cutting lube with a slit saw. I was cutting a part, and it was binding on every pass. I used some lubricant, and it cut beautifully. Very slow feeds. The lube I used was lanolin. Go figure. It's a nice lube for CNC jobs 'cause you can put it on and it stays there. I started using it when I had a peck drill pattern with over a hundred holes in it. I center-drilled them, packed the center drill holes with lanolin, chucked the appropriate drill bit, and let it go. Worked like a charm. I'm almost certain other lubes would work equally well with a slit saw. It's just what I had on hand. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 01:27:58 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: Re: Slitting Saw Help! mmurray70 wrote: > It seemed to cut fairly well > at first but then jammed up after it got deeper. I did use some WD- > 40 after which helped a bit but I'm still not impressed with the > results. Are there any other common substances that would lube > better than this? That would be the aluminum galling. Keep the saw wet with turpentine. High speed, slow feed. Best way to cut aluminum. ------- Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:53:40 -0000 From: "Graham Green" Subject: Re: Slitting Saw Help! Hi Mark, a few answers to your questions. Remember that a slitting saw has NO set on the teeth at all, not like a woodworking saw blade.So the slitting saw must fit into the cut, any bits of swarf in the cut and it WILL gall up and you MUST use some form of lube on the blade as it is cutting. Go real slow with the feed and listen to the teeth working on the material for the speed of the saw, you might go up on the speed or down on the speed, the saw will let you know when you get it right. It will cut with a smooth sound, not a scream or a chattering noise. The first pass with a slitting saw should only be the depth of the teeth to cut a steady track for the other cuts to follow. Never take a deep cut first up, unles you want to replace the blade. Whatever material you are cutting you should feed by hand on the first cut, to get the feel of the material, then kick the power feed into gear. You can cut the full depth of the blade, into any material, as long as you take it easy. If you try and climb mill with a slitting saw, you better have a spare saw blade handy. A slitting saw is a slotting saw, just a different name in different parts of the world. A jewellers saw is a hand held saw, similar to a coping saw, the blades for a jewellers saw can have up to 80-100 teeeth per inch, they are real fine saw blades for fine work. I hope that I have answered your queries for you, if you have any more queries, please feel free to ask. radish ------- Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 22:41:34 -0000 From: "mmurray70" Subject: Re: Slitting Saw Help! Hi guys, thanks again for the tremendous amount of info provided on this. I had already tried the slow speeds and feeds that you guys recommended with no luck. I did try with some WD-40 too with little more luck but everyone here seemed to really stress the point about the lube and it makes sense since the teeth are not staggered on the blade. Anyway, I tried a few cuts with the blade completely burried in WD-40. Amazing difference. Went from not cutting at all to cutting great. Thanks again guys. I dont know what id do without the Taig group. Thanks! Mark -------- NOTE TO FILE: Some suppliers may list some round slitting saw blades as jewellers' saw blades. Tend to be at the smaller end of the slitting saw size range and were mounted originally on jewellers' lathes (tiny and expensive!). Manual jewellers' saw blades are indeed fine straight blades for a manual saw that looks similar to a shrunken fret or coping saw, but adjustable for blade length so that shorter or broken blades can still be used. Blade is inserted so cutting is done on the pull stroke, giving precision and a clear view on top of the item being cut. ------- Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:05:01 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: Bandsaw --- In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "Dan Kaschner"wrote: > Does anyone know if the woodworking bandsaw in my shop can be used > for aluminum and brass? I know the speed is too fast, but can I > still use it (assuming the blade will dull sooner)? Most of the > work I do is using Aluminum and Brass, but I would also like to find > a way to cut steel without resorting to my hacksaw. A metal bandsaw > would be great except that I have very little floorspace left in my shop. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dan Dan, I use my woodworking bandsaw to cut both aluminum and brass. I don't do it often, but it works. I have to go slow and easy, but that's old news. Don't expect woodworking blades to last very long but then I guess that depends on the type and quality of blade you are using. As for steel, I use a couple of approaches. For cutting bar stock to approximate dimensions I use a Milwaukee portable band saw. This is a metal cutting tool and I use bimetal blades. It ain't precise, since its a hand-held machine but it cuts just about any mild steel I take it to. There are other similar hand held machines out there as well. It came in a suitcase sized metal case and it sits on the shelf when not in use. For other cuts in thin plate, etc., I use a Bosch hand held jigsaw with their bimetal blades specifically designated as metal cutting. Again, slow and easy is the order of the day. Like you, I would like a horizontal band saw but there's no floor space left. Regards, Jim Knighton ------- Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:30:22 -0700 From: k6sufx~xxdirecway.com Subject: Re: Bandsaw You can use woodworking tools on most aluminum alloys, but brass may be a problem. There are portable band saws for metal from various sources or consider a Sawzall type of metal saw. Both of those can be stored under the bench and brought out when needed. I just bought one of those 4 X 6 combination horzontal and vertical bandsaws and so far happy with it. My shop is only 20 X 12 (Biggest one that could be hauled in) and with the benches, 12 X 36 lathe, portable swamp cooler it is getting crowded. Put in second shed of the same size and tried to keep one for metal and one for wood, but tools all end up in the wrong shed when I start a project. ------- Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:16:42 -0700 From: "Marcus and Eva" Subject: Re: Bandsaw Hi Dan: I've cut 6" thick, hard aluminum blocks (7075 T6) on a 14" Delta woodworking bandsaw without problems. I use Lenox Diemaster blade stock and silver solder the joint myself. I've probably put 100 lineal feet of aluminum of various thicknesses through it since the last blade change and it's still going strong. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:23:22 -0000 From: "alenz2002" Subject: Re: Bandsaw Dan, I think it's a matter of efficiency and how much it pain's you to abuse your woodworking tools. Recently I was using a hacksaw to whack off a piece of ½ aluminum plate when the old tennis elbow kicked in. Took the piece over to the Dremel jig saw and found out that if it was flooded with cutting fluid it would cut, (slowly). Without fluid, nothing, but give it a squirt and it would take a bite. Slow but painless (to my elbow) and the blades are cheap and expendable. Them remembered that I had some metal cutting blades for the saber saw (stubby hacksaw blades) and tried that. Worked better, but still slow. Been thinking about one of those Harbor Freight cutoff saws, but really can't justify one. BTW Question: When did my jigsaw become known as a scroll saw and my saber saw become known as a jigsaw? I must have been asleep at the switch and let that one slip past me. Al Lenz ------- Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:20:09 -0400 From: "Ron Ginger" Subject: Re: Bandsaw I always cut aluminum and brass plate on my table saw. I use a carbide blade and it cuts like butter. Just watch the chips- they come off fast and hurt. Obviously long sleeves and face protection is required. Almost all commercial aluminum stock is cut by table saws. A wood bandsaw will cut steel just fine if you can slow it down enough. I added a jackshaft and pulleys to mine years ago, but eventualy got a metal bandsaw. For under $200 at most of the import suppliers these are really worth the money. Just get a good blade. Remember in a bandsaw you need to be sure at least a couple teeth are in the stock at al times- if you try to cut real thin stuff, smaller than a tooth pitch, you wind up with the stock stuck between two teeth and rip teeth off the blade. ron ginger ------- Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:23:28 -0700 From: k6sufx~xxdirecway.com Subject: Re: Metal Cutting Band Saw Blades Hi Bob: Sure you will have to slack off the tension to change blades. But the manual that came with the saw (and on my wood saw) it says to loosen the tension when not in use. So after my first test cut in a piece of mild steel I turned the tension screw to loosen the blade a bit. But, for the first mistake I have made last month, I forgot to tighten when I needed to cut off a bit of key stock. The blade flew off the wheels and I kept putting it back on, played with the alignment a few times and then put out a cry for help on the users group (Yahoo in groups under 4X6 bandsaw) and got the hint to really tighten down on the tension and now the saw is working fine again. The blade is quite a bit thicker than the blades for my little three wheel bench top wood bandsaw so is harder to handle without getting a bit scratched up. (felt as if I was rassling aleegators in the swamp) I figure one reason to take the tension off the blade on the wood saw is the rubber tires on the wheels, well the HF metal saw has no tires the blade runs directly on the wheel metal. What I really wanted (and may cobble one up someday) was a power hack saw as I like to build locomotives and most loco frames are cut from 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick steel and have a lot of cutouts. A hacksaw is better than a bandsaw for cutouts as you can take the blade off and thread it through a pilot hole or slot and make those cut outs with a minimum of hand hacksaw and file work. ------- Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 18:42:40 -0500 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: FAQ needed -- Bandsaw blades? >Got my 4 X 6 Harbor Freight bandsaw up and running. The blade it came >with, is next to useless. What blades are you guys using on your saws?? I've used the bi-metal blades the standard mail order places sell with excellent results. I also have used the standard Starett blades, as they are available locally. They do not last quite as long, but are less expensive. ------- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:07:58 EST From: Rollin45x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: FAQ needed -- Bandsaw blades? I don't know if Lennox makes a blade that will fit, but for my money Lennox bi-metal band saw blades cannot be beat. Simmons comes a close second. I use a portable bandsaw at work all the time and use them hard, Lennox blades are the best I have found. steve ------- Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:17:12 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: FAQ needed -- Bandsaw blades? I bought 100' rolls of the 10 and 18 TPI carbon-steel blades from Enco. They work, and I abuse the saw and blades so much with odd materials, pieces too big to cut right, etc. that it would be a big waste to get fancy bimetal or other blades. (Of course, you need access to a blade welder, or get good at the silver solder technique. Jon ------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:26:04 -0000 From: "mmurray701" Subject: Re: Slitting Saw speed --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "effexir" wrote: > I purchased 2 slitting saws from Enco, 1 is 2" diameter 1/16" thick > and the other one is 2" and 1/8" thick. Does any one know what > speeds these should be run at to cut aluminum and steel. I havent > seen any information on them anywhere. Thanks for the help. Slowest speed possible for Aluminium, and you wont be able to cut steel. Simply cant get it slow enough with the stock motor. If you have a variable speed motor you could do it, go VERY slow (~150 RPM). Slitting saws are very touchy things to use. You NEED lubricant on it constantly. Kerosene and WD-40 work well for Aluminium, the water based coolants dont cut it. This part about coolant is crutial. Feed it slowly. And if you need to make a long cut, take several light passes instead of one deep cut. When taking long, deep cuts the blade tends to slighly rise or fall from your actual Z value. It will be more accurate with a couple of passes. Do your saws have offset (staggered) teeth like a wood saw blade, or are they all straight? I'm used to using the Taig slitting saw 2.5 dia x 0.032" and all straight teeth. I'm not sure how yours will cut compared to the Taig. I'm thinking you may find the 1/8th saw a challenge on a machine like the Taig. Good luck! Mark ------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:39:36 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Re: Slitting Saw speed I've used the Taig slitting saw a few times & can only echo Mark's comments about speeds and lubrication. If you get it wrong, all sorts of exciting and unpleasant things can happen, ranging from the blade jamming to the cut drifting significantly off line. The thing to bear in mind is that with a slitting saw, there's no-where for the swarf to go until the tooth that removed it emerges at the far end of the cut, so the maximum amount of metal that one tooth can remove in a single pass is what you can "store" in the space between it and its next-door neighbor. If you attempt to cut more rapidly than that, the cut will get jammed up with swarf, and the result will be (at best) a bad finish on the cut, and (at worst) severe damage to the workpiece, saw, and possibly the mill. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:40:25 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Slitting Saw speed Something else regarding slit saws: When I first used the one from Taig, I was alarmed to hear it going "zzZZzz..ing! zzZZzz..ing!" It was the most uneven sound I'd ever heard from a cutter, but it appeared to be cutting pretty evenly. This kinda spooked me, despite the beautiful cut I got out of it. (This was AFTER I learned the importance of lubricant. Without lube it jammed every time and produced a rotten cut.) Anyway, a few months ago I was flipping through one of the Machinist's Bedside Readers (volume 3, I think) and I ran across a reference to the same problem. Turns out Guy Lautard was also alarmed at the uneven cutting sound he got from his slit saw. He was a lot more driven than me and did everything he could to balance the cutter out, but to no avail. Cutting to the chase (and trying to entice people to pick up a copy of his book, which is quite good), he discovered you can't completely balance them out. They're so dang big they never heat up evenly, so the second you start cutting with a theoretically perfectly balanced slit saw, it distorts and unbalances. You do what you can. The cut from one at rock bottom spindle speed, slow feed, and lots of lube, is excellent. I never tried soluble oil on mine, but lanolin worked great. (Don't ask... The lanolin was a holdover from when I did a CNC drilling sequence with a couple hundred holes. I spot drilled all the holes, packed them with lanolin, and let the machine go. It worked quite well, the finish was great, but that was the worst cleanup I've ever had to do on my mill. I'm glad I picked up a mist coolant system. If it won't work with the slit saw, I'll resort to tapping fluid or... gulp...lanolin.) Tom ------- Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 11:22:43 -0800 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re: Digest Number 1290 [taigtools group] >but I bought a roll of that 'Shim in a Can' stuff and >after cutting out all the squares they have a bit of the >curvature left in them. Is there any easy way to flatten >them before machining. I will be using about 0.005 inch >clearance, and an oblong shape after machining will probably >be a problem as will any curvature in the 'flat' dimension. Any ideas? >Could a person sort of heat treat them in an oven or something? There are two issues with curl in your shim stock. The first is introduced from being rolled. This can be removed by reversing the roll. The way this is accomplished is to run the stock through a three roller rolling mill, and with trial and error, you find the setting that removes the curl and you end up with a flat sheet. Simply rolling in reverse to the original roll might work, but your would have to use a smaller mandrel and who knows exactly which size would give you the correct amount of bend. The second issue is the distortion induced by cutting the stock. The least distortion will be had by cutting it with a square shear, although finding one that is sharp enough and set up to the very tight clearance required to cut stainless steel shim is going to be fun. Cutting with tin snips, or other type of hand cutters will almost always result in a slight curl along the edge that will induce enough tension to cause the piece to warp. I recently needed a 7" diameter of 22ga Stainless that was flat. I had a friend cut one with his plasma cutter. There was less than 3/32" of burn around the edge, but that was enough to warp the piece, I ended up with a 7" clicker. I tried to reduce the stress by placing it in my Kiln and taking it up to 900F for a couple hours and then let it come back to room temperature without opening the door. The result of this treatment was absolutely nothing changed. Perhaps if I had taken it up to say 1200F it might have done something, but at that point, you start to get oxidation on the stainless. I have wondered what would have happened if I had ground the burnt edge off, if that would have released the stress. Don -------- Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:40:37 -0800 From: Rick Voegelin Subject: Re: Cutting raw material [taigtools group] > the band saw, with the blade that came with it is slooow. > All of you deal with this everyday. How do you do it? Wayne, there is an excellent Yahoo group devoted to the much loved/much abused HF 4x6 bandsaws and their cousins (not surprisingly listed as 4x6 bandsaw). As with all things mechanical, you can find numerous ways to modify your bandsaw to amaze and delight your friends. Check out the 4x6 group files and archives for information on topics ranging from homebuilt recirculating cooling systems and hydraulic downfeeds to how to reinforce the cheesy sheetmetal stand. The general consensus on the 4x6 group is that one should immediately replace the HF blade with a proper bimetal blade. Install a Lenox Diemaster II bi-metal 10-14 blade (about $20 from MSC), adjust the blade tension as tight as you can, put the belt on the middle pulley, adjust the downforce to about 6 pounds, and let 'er rip. You'll need a 1/2" x 64-1/2" x .025" blade or thereabout for the generic 4x6 bandsaw. I intend to make all of the recommended improvements to my 4x6 bandsaw just as soon as I complete all of the modifications to my Taig lathe and the 7x12 minilathe and the HF micro-mill and . . . Hope this helps, Rick Voegelin ------- Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:47:06 -0400 From: "S or J" Subject: Metal Cutting Tools [Prints_and_Plans group] Changed the subject, as Re: Digest #xxx helps no one in the future trying to search for metal cutting in the Subject line of archived messages. This discussion has become one of the classic power hacksaw versus bandsaw debates. Here are a few thoughts in no particular order as to metal-cutting alternatives. Trying to be brief but practical. Don't forget safety glasses and equipment and principles. And never do anything you do not personally know to be safe. Have seen a couple of home-made power hacksaws in dusty corners of workshops, while relatively inexpensive and efficient 4" X 6" power bandsaws were now in frequent use. The owners said the hacksaws worked but were a bit of a nuisance to set up, had limited capacity for dealing with large metal pipes, and could only do straight line cuts. The imported bandsaws needed a bit of tuning (change lube to synthetic gear oil, use a quality American bimetallic blade, and make a sturdy stand) but then did excellent work for cutoffs, and could do freehand curved cuts on the table (better braced now). They could also do some serviceable wood cutting for persons without a wood bandsaw. I had an outdoor project involving cutting lots of 1/2" steel bars and angle iron (nasty, lumpy, with hard spots). Was using a metal cut off saw, which works by abrasion cutting with a special blade. Nearly set the garage on fire from the spark stream before moving outdoors. Then burnt out the saw motor. The cuts were not clean, and needed filing to true the ends. Ended up using an Armstrong hacksaw to finish. Found a metal bandsaw on sale, bought it, did the above mentioned mods, and would never give it up. Never. Much nicer cuts than the abrasive cutoff saws and no Fire Dept sirens. Some folks use their standard wood bandsaws for cutting softer metals like aluminium. Lowest pulley speed and lube the blade (beeswax) and don't use too low a TPI. Haven't needed to try this option. Have cut some aluminium flat and angle stock on my radial arm saw by moving the carbide saw blade (while off) forward, clamping the metal to the table and fence, and cutting by pushing the now-on saw back through the metal. Normal cutting direction would jam the blade and lead to potential disaster/ dismemberment and cause unnecessary blood corrosion to innocent tools. Same backward cuts can be made on a sliding mitre saw. Must admit that this process raises my pulse rate considerably; perhaps I will get an expendable brother-in-law to come over, set up the cut, and let him do it while I attend to something in another room I just remembered. [NOTE TO FILE: While I and others have used radial and mitre saws to cut aluminium or other soft metals, for safety reasons such practice cannot be recommended. Spend a bit of money for the power metal bandsaw and cut this stuff more safely. Any metal cutting is inherently hazardous, even with handtools.] The suggested chain drilling for internal holes unsuitable for a bandsaw -- followed by use of a hacksaw, power or manual, is traditional and works well. It usually needs a lot of hand filing afterwards, tedious unless you have bought/built a power file. But you did vow on 1 January to get into better shape... The natural, but expensive, alternative is a milling machine that will plunge cut and then mill out the holes. Actually they are not all that expensive depending on size needed, and a benchtop version will also do all your drilling -- thus saving the cost of a drill press. Even a small machine can do big work if done in incremental stages/depths. Some folks (including Rudy Kouhoupt) have done light metal milling using a drill press. The danger here is that drill presses have bearings designed for straight axial loads as in drilling, and not the radial side-thrust bearings used for milling machines. They can suddenly have the drill chuck part company with the drill press arbor and dance around the shop, while you had better be dancing just as fast out of its way. There is a mod suggested somewhere to remove the chuck jaws, set a tap clearance drill bit standing up in a vice on the table, and gently drill through the chuck. Follow by a drill for the tap size into the quill; then tap the quill, then bolt the chuck to the quill. Assumes the chuck and quill design can have this modification, and there is room behind the jaws for the bolt head. While such a modification would keep the chuck from coming off unintention- ally, it does not solve the bearing type problem that will give increased wear, and eventual sloppiness, to the drill press's operations. Same caution about incremental approach. A wood router can use suitable routing or milling bits to do light duty cutting of aluminium, including internal holes or pockets. Needs a well prepared setup with the work firmly clamped. Only precise routing guide templates ensure precision results. Same caution about incremental approach. If I had to cut a great many internal holes in a project, I would likely contract it out to a local company using CNC milling or plasma cutting. There are many more machine and hand tool variants, but I am going to stop here and let others pitch in. Too busy to write a book. But there are good books out there, including at the local library. And everyone here knows what a great information resource we have at some internet commercial and private metalworking sites. Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:58:35 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: i seek wisdom on parting-off methods/tools [taigtools] On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, juangelt wrote: > i'm quite new to the lathe, but i want to know a lot- fast! lol right > now i'm slicing up 14 tooth brass gear stock to make backlash adjusters > as i cnc some taig lathes. this is fairly expensive material and any way > to reduce the kerf would be very welcome. plz be loquacious and even > prolix - i'd like to hear as much as possible > - alternative means of parting, like a jewellers saw that has minuscule > kerf doesn't do much for flatness. using a dremel cutoff saw is pretty > good but not if the material is thick at all - like this 3/4 brass. The jeweler's saw would work well if you can later face off the gears. But getting the faces flat, parallel, and perpendicular to the gear teeth would be an interesting prospect. > i'm using a hand ground cobalt steel blade that's a bit over 1/16 wide > kerf - is this excessively thin already for a parting blade? can i get > even thinner without breaking a lot (i only have one parting too atm!) It's not too far out of the ordinary. I've got an 0.060" I use for most jobs. What diameter material are you talking about? > what's a good source of parting tools - best material (hss?) Mine's HSS. It's what I know, you know? You can get inserted carbide parting tools, but on brass there's not much point. Besides, they tend to be thicker than the HSS blade I have. Mine came from Taig, but you can get them from most of the major tool suppliers. Enco, Granger, MSC, Blue Ridge, all of those should have them. > since i'm on brass, i'm playing with rake and approach. still trying to > get chatter free, but i'm not between centers - that might be my main > prob. there, actually... Brass takes a zero rake tool, though you'll need some front relief and side relief. A HSS parting tool blank should have the side relief ground in from the get-go. > now that i've got to do cutoff for dozens and dozens of parts - this > matters a lot! Thanks for any & all tips/tricks/hints! I'll throw one out. I haven't done this, so read that for what it's worth: In "Building the Shay" Kozo Hiraoka says he gets good results using old hacksaw blades. Grind the teeth off, remove any paint, & grind on a front relief. I don't think he uses them for parting, more for E-ring grooves. Depending on the size of the bar stock, I'd be more or less inclined to try this. (1/4", sure! What the heck? 1", probably not.) If the diameter is small, I'm betting you can grind thinner than you're using. Still, I'd be inclined to find a commercial blade that would do the job. Enco lists an 0.040" in HSS (397-7503 for $11.97). The smallest of the carbide insert cutoff tools is a lot thicker (0.087" cut width.) If the stock is small enoug hto use a grooving tool, you can get carbide insert grooving tools down to 0.039". Still, I'd go with the 0.040" HSS parting blade. Tom ------- Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 04:33:17 -0000 From: "andy_kino" Subject: Re: metal cutting question (brass)DONE and Thanks! andy_kino wrote: > >Any of you ever tried to cut brass sheet 1/16 thick with a table saw? > >I'm trying to figure a way to cut brass sheet accurately. The throat > >of my bandsaw isnt wide enough. Is there a circular saw blade that > >will do the job? I would hate to do this with a jig saw. > >Opinions? Thanks. In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, Steven Harris wrote: > I have cut alum, brass, and copper with my table saw and compound miter > saw. The trick is a fine tooth carbide blade and nice slow feeds (let > the saw do the work do not force it). Cutting something thin like the > sheet you are describing I would use some plywood under the sheet. That > would make it easier to move without bending and it should give you a > nice clean cut without rolling the edge. I would try a test piece before > trying the critical piece. Hope this helps, Steve Well, I did the job today and it turned out wonderfully. I took the advice and made up a plywood base for sliding across the table saw, and tried the cut with a plain vanilla plywood paneling blade. Aside from moving slow, the brass got a bit hot and began to discolor. Quickening the pace eliminated discoloration, but it was a fine line between feed rate and heat. The cut looks way better than a shear would have done. No rolled edge at all. Got to remember this. Thanks, Andy ------- Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:27:26 -0800 From: Steven Harris <79ramchargerx~xxwavecable.com> Subject: Re: Cut Off Attachmnent [atlas_craftsman] Michael Spivey wrote: > Has anyone seen or have they built a cut off attachment for the back side of the carriage on the 12 inch craftsman lathe? If so, would they be willing to share the drawings or pictures as I would love to build one without reinventing the wheel. < Try this http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/A-11.html Steve ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following thread comes from the taigtools newsgroup at Yahoo relating to experience with the small metal bandsaws as have already been discussed earlier in this file. Some good tips. And for those still cutting with hand power, or fire-belching abrasive cutoff tools, these little bandsaws will be a pleasant surprise. Sure they have a few tuning issues, but they are well worth the minor effort. Personally, I would never do metalwork again without one. ------- Re: band saw [taigtools] Posted by: "Clive Foster" clive_fosterx~xxtalk21.com Date: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:38 am ((PST)) Mine isn't HF and is a very early version of the same generic design being bought only a coupla years after these beasts were first brought into the UK. I found the adjustments finicky and, in the case of the blade support rollers inadequate. I eventually made new eccentric holders for the pinch bearings with more throw so I could get the blade properly held. I also went through the rest of the adjustments modifying as required so that the various bits lined up correctly and the movements were, as far as possible pulling co-linear with the bits being moved. Turned the thing from swear word generator and "boat anchor if I could afford to bin it" into something reasonably useable. Blade still comes off occasionally but I can live with it as I don't use every day. Don't forget that the top wheel on these things is effectively floating and the blade tension pulls it into alignment with the drive wheel. There is a lot of adjustment up top but it's important that the drive wheel face and flange align the blade correctly with the lower set of blade alignment bearings. If you have a good pinch on the lower support rollers, it's obvious when the lower drive wheel is out because the blade wanders around on it like a drunken sailor. Need the top support rollers a bit loose to really see this. If the pinch is inadequate the blade twists as it goes through so disguising the problem and guaranteeing regular jump offs. Also check the alignment of the sliding arms carrying the support rollers. The arm support spring thingy is pretty hopeless as standard being in the "sort-of works" class. Improving the abutment helps; best cure would be some sort of hydraulic arrangement like the big boys. A good looking hydraulic arrangement has been written-up in the Village Press publications. I've not gone that far as I've obtained a Rapidor power hacksaw which will take over cut off duties when refurbed and will get a proper bench band-saw. Good quality blades help a lot too. Far as I can see current versions are a lot better so it's unlikely that you will have all the problems but general word is that a bit of post purchase fettling in the right areas helps a lot and greatly improves the user experience. Well it's cheap Chinee, wadda you expect! Spending a day or two getting it right before putting into service beats the heck out of fiddling forever after. Worth it as the basic machines are durable. Mine is well over twenty years old and I knew of some doing a decade or so in industrial shops, second line duties but still lots of use. HTH Clive ------- Re: band saw Posted by: "Roy" rx~xxshred2.net Date: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:34 am ((PST)) They aren't a lot better, but are improving. There's a 4x6 bandsaw yahoogroup that has the entire knowledge of the world on these saws, including some great tuning and modification tips. I've got one and use it basically as an unattended power hacksaw whacking lengths of stock (steel, wood, plastic, etc.) into smaller rough. For that it works great. Roy ------- Re: band saw Posted by: "luv2bsailin" luv2bsailinx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:32 pm ((PST)) Hi Guys: This is a very ON-topic subject for me. I bought a HF bandsaw (the green version) a couple months ago, and was quite happy with it until it stripped its drive gear. It's a rough cast brass gear driven by a steel worm in an oil bath. The oil was completely loaded with brass dust and looked like mud. I don't know if it was just cheap brass, rough worm gear, poor alignment, low oil, or what, but it lasted less than 10 hours of use. I would recommend checking the gearbox often if you have one of those. Then I discovered Milwaukee's "deep-cut" portable bandsaws and plunked down about $300 for one. I love this thing. It cuts WAY faster than the HF. I made a little table for benchtop use, similar to this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/VERTICAL-BANDSAW-STAND-4-MILWAUKEE-OR-PORTER- CABLE-SAW_W0QQitemZ290070364045QQihZ019QQcategoryZ42296QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem My table is wood, and a little crude, but you get the idea. This set-up is especially nice for me due to my limited shop space (6x7 feet in the back of my RV). You also see the saws regularily on e-bay. Just search on "Milwaukee Bandsaw". I've got the variable-speed version. One advantage of this option I didn't anticipate is that you can run it slow to keep the noise down. It's a bit loud at high speeds. Also, watch your fingers and use a push-block or something. These things will really cut meat (don't ask). One limitation is that the blade is twisted 45 degrees as it runs through the guide rollers. Great for cutting off long stock up to 4x4, but you can't really "rip" a long strip off the edge of a sheet. Basically you're limited to about a 4 inch square when cutting flat stock on the table. Hand-held, you can get well over 5 inches on thinner flat stock by tilting the saw. It goes through 1/2 inch 6061-T651 like butter, and a welder guy I know says he routinely cuts 4-inch heavy wall steel pipe with his. Jim (Sorry if I sound like a Milwaukee salesman. I'm not.) ------- How to cut and drill PC board [sherline] Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxadelphia.net Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 10:59 am ((PDT)) I have some double sided PC board blank from Radio Shack. The substrate is glass fiber in epoxy. I'm not doing production work here, but one of (or perhaps three of) projects. I suspect that either carbon steel or high speed steel won't be of much use after cutting or drilling this stuff, but, except for woodworking router bits I have no carbide. So, the question is: what do I sacrifice? hacksaw blades perhaps? Also, if I were doing this for real in larger quantities what should I buy and use? Alan Haisley ------- Re: How to cut and drill PC board Posted by: "David Clark" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 11:17 am ((PDT)) Hello Alan: It's been quite a few years, but I have had good success on PC board with dental drills and burrs I got from some surplus catalog. They made really good miniature drills and mills, got a couple hundred for a few bucks, just threw them away after each use. DC ------- Re: How to cut and drill PC board Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 11:23 am ((PDT)) Hi Alan: Fiberglass PC boards are tough. I used to modify those boards a lot when employed by Loral Fairchild. For drilling, MSC or McMaster Carr supply circuit board drills....(Solid Carbide) 1/8" shank and many diameters available. For cutting, I had set up a table saw with a specially sharpened carbide blade. Suggestion... Use a Dremel type tool with a diamond wheel (double sided). Or you can score the board and carefully snap it to size along the scribe mark. In any case, protective goggles, mask to filter the harmful particles. To smooth the edges, an abrasive sanding belt with Aluminum Oxide will work. For large quantities, I would buy a small shear. Regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Cutting Drill Rod [sherline] Posted by: "BH" bradellsx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT)) Hi All, Long time reader. I've slowly come back to this lovely little hobby as spare time allows, and I recently purchased a 9" bandsaw. I'm using a 18 tooth metal blade, and have been cutting aluminum with it lately (such a joy, my arm already loves the purchase). Today, I wanted to cut a chunk of 1/4" OD Drill Rod. This usually doesn't present a problem with the trusty old hack saw, but it just killed the teeth on the bandsaw blade while barely making much of a cut. What should I be looking at for a blade to cut this with? My blade length is 59-1/2" (to keep in mind with suggestions). Or is this material not suited for this, but rather a metal chop saw? The hardest material that I'd expect to ever cut though with this saw would be 3/8" Drill Rod (currently a bar of o1) to make some cutters for the mill. ------- Re: Cutting Drill Rod Posted by: "David Clark" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 3:17 pm ((PDT)) For all ferous metals other than 12L14 I use an abrasive disk for metals in a small miter saw. Spray coolant just to hold down the sparks and fire & brimstone smell. I likewise have a 9" bandsaw that takes a 59-1/2" blade, possibly the same one (Delta). I use a variable tooth, bi-metal blade from MacMaster- Carr p/n 4179A878 and a spray coolant. This glides through 12L14, brass, and aluminum, leaving a cut surface that looks like it was milled. I've cut up to 4" diameter 6061 with no problem. Blades last a long time. Still, one of these years, I'll get around to making a new set of drive pulleys to slow it down by about half. Should work even better. Might even be able to cut harder steels, but don't see much point in risking a $20 blade to find out. DC ------- Re: Cutting Drill Rod Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT)) Hi BH: First,What cutting speed? How many surface feet per minute, etc. Do you have a variable speed? Should be no difference between 1/4" or 3/8". Steel of 01 should cut OK, providing you do not exceed the recommended SFPM. A bi metal blade is good. Check out recommendations (on the Internet) for suitable suppliers. MSC or McMasterCarr. (No commercial connection.) Use a clamp or toolmakers clamp on the drill rod to prevent spinning while cutting. Don't force the cut. Safety goggles, of course. Adjustable saw guides? Set them to just clear the work and guide the saw blade well. Later, Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Cutting Drill Rod Posted by: "BH" bradellsx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 6:23 pm ((PDT)) Hi Jerry G: Well, that may be the big item right there ... Currently it's on its lowest setting, at 1400 sfm, and doing a quick glance at the machinists handbook, it says to look for 100-150 sfm, and 8-16 tpi blades, neither of which I can do at the moment (although, I do have 10 tpi blades on order already). Hmmm, maybe time to hit up the old highschool to turn a few larger pulleys to get the speed down (and steal their mill for an afternoon for some new vice bodies too)... or what about being really cheesy and using a voltage regulator and running the bandsaw at a lower voltage? (aside from the possible lack of torque at that voltage probably at 1/10 the speed it currently runs at). I'd really hate to have to change pulleys in order to cut my stock (as I do quite a bit with 6061, and C1018), and a 2nd saw isn't an option, I've already run out of space as it is! lol Brad ------- Re: Cutting Drill Rod Posted by: "Paul W. Chamberlain" pwcx~xxcapcocons.com Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 6:50 pm ((PDT)) You may have a DC motor with a speed control circuit (my Craftsman 11" 3-wheel bandsaw does). If so, you don't want to play with the input voltage. If the motor has round brush caps near the end of the motor housing, then it's DC. Paul, Central OR ------- Re: Cutting Drill Rod Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 6:59 pm ((PDT)) BH: My suggestion based on your statement. Back to the "armstrong" hacksaw. In Bulova there was a supervisor who insisted that everyone cut any stock smaller than 3/4" by hand with a hacksaw. I never heard of any fatalities as a result of that practice.... :) Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Cutting Drill Rod Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:09 am ((PDT)) On 4/2/07, David Wood wrote: > But I hope a bean counter caught him for wasting so many expensive > manhours with such a ridiculous practice. If it takes more than 5 minutes to go through 1/4" of steel rod with a hacksaw, then there is something very wrong. Either you've got hardened steel (does a file scratch it?) or your hacksaw blade is cheap/dull, or your technique is lacking (short strokes/bad pressure/angle). I spent a lot of years using a hacksaw wrong, then one day I read Bill Holmes' books on firearms and learned how to do it right. The proper use of one is well worth learning, since you can often do small or hard to set-up jobs in less time than it would take you to dis-assemble a part from the larger machine, and get it set up on a mill/shaper. Also for any part that is plain too big to fit on your current machine tools, hacksaws and files can still save the day. ------- Re: Cutting Drill Rod Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxadelphia.net Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 10:31 pm ((PDT)) Remember when picking blades that you want to keep about three teeth at least on the work. Also remember that there is no harm in cutting slower than the recommendation. I'm not sure that a 10 tpi blade is a good idea for use with 1/4" diameter material. The 18 tpi should be fine. I have cut steel, brass, bronze, and aluminum with an 18 tpi blade using my HF metal bandsaw. It cuts slower than a 14 tpi blade but gives a smoother cut for me. Alan Haisley ------- Re: Cutting Drill Rod Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Tue Apr 3, 2007 12:43 am ((PDT)) Hi Alan, BH, More like at least six teeth... For the hacksaw, 24 teeth is cool. 32 Teeth for thin sheet metal. Actually for thin sheet metal, a Wiss metal snip (shears) is better. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Bandsaw Questions [LittleEngines] Posted by: "leasingham_connelly" martin.connellyx~xxsiemens.com Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:47 am ((PDT)) "yangwuchenchiaolin" wrote: > Any advice for someone looking to add a metal cutting Bandsaw to his > shop. I do mostly aluminium and brass work but occasionally have to > cut steal. What should I be looking for, what questions should I be > asking, what features should I insist on? Thanks in advance, David I can only speak from experience with industrial size bandsaws but some of the details should transfer. In order to get a straight cut the blade guides need to be good. They can be solid or rollers. Make sure they are replaceable and adjustable to be able to keep the blade correctly guided. If solid are they carbide? This lasts far longer than a piece of steel. Rollers will out-last solid guides if treated correctly. Deeper blades also give a straighter cut than a shallow one. If you have a choice go for the one with the deepest blade. Tension needs to be correct. A blade tension indicator of some sort (may only be an engraved line and a pointer) is useful here or a torque figure if possible for the tensioner. Controlled descent is also important for a straight cut. If the blade is pushed thru too fast it will start to wander off line. Control may be from some sort of spring with adjustable sliding weight or a hydraulic ram. A laser showing where the line of cut will go is a useful feature. You may find it hard to get a budget bandsaw with this on but it is fairly easy to get hold of a cheap laser level with the ability to project a line and add it to a bandsaw. If you don't have this but may want it make sure there is somewhere to mount it in the future. A good lubricant is a must for long life of guides and blades. I think there are wax sticks that I have seen recomended in some forums for smaller machines (larger ones tend to have flood coolant, unlikely in a small machine). Martin ------- Re: Bandsaw Questions Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:02 am ((PDT)) It depends on what you're doing with it. I do mostly clock making and small steam and Stirlings from bar stock. For roughing out gear blanks and clock plates from brass and aluminum, usually 1/8" thick or less, I use a 9" Delta vertical saw with a 1/4" wide blade. That's about as good as a jig saw for light contouring. Many of my engine components are made from Mic 6 aluminum tooling plate up to 1/2" thick. The Delta glides through that as well. I've equipped it with a spray mist coolant powered by an air brush compressor, and attached my shop vac with PVC and rubber tubing and hose clamps. A gravity fed horizontal saw with a wide blade is totally unsuitable for this kind of roughing out. Even though many of them can be converted to a vertical configuration, often the blade is too wide and the speed is too slow for such work. The Delta is far too fast, however, to cut ferris metals. To cut steel and iron bar, and brass bar over 1" diameter, I've long been using an abrasive disk in a chop saw. This is just fine for occasional use. Recently, though, I've had to cut up a largish quantity of 12L14 and gray cast iron, so decided to spring for a horizontal saw. I took a chance on an El-Cheapo, $160 Chinese special from Harbor Freight. So far, I'm finding it a good value. Solidly made, smooth running. I think it will do fine for no more mileage than I expect to be putting on it. Buy good blades for whatever saw you have. I use bi-metal, variable pitch, variable set blades. For my saws they're only about $25 each. Always keep a spare on hand. You will roach a blade now and then, and there are few things more dangerous than a worn band saw blade. Even the dullest one is still capable of trimming your fingernails to the second knuckle, and the excessive force employed in trying to use a dull blade makes accidents much more likely. The blade should glide through the work with very little pressure. If it doesn't, something is not right. Stop immediately and fix it. I'll be happy to post some photos of my saws and how I have them set up, if anyone's interested. Regards, DC ------- Re: Bandsaw Questions Posted by: "Mark Kenworthy" markx~xxkenworthymachine.com Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:34 am ((PDT)) Hi David - We use a small Grizzly bandsaw for a lot of our small cuts (we have a Do-All automatic saw that we use for most production cuts). This is the model we use and we're happy with it as a lower cost bandsaw: http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x-6-Metal-Cutting-Bandsaw-w-Swivel- Head/G9742 The best "upgrade" we have made to that saw is purchasing some Lenox Diemaster 2 blades for it. They last much longer and cut much faster (~3x the import bi-metal blades we used to use with it). We've only used the swivel head a couple times, but it was nice to have when we needed it for those jobs. Hope this helps! Mark ------- Band saw Posted by: "Carl" bayhousex~xxhughes.net Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:07 am ((PDT)) David. There is a Yahoo group dedicated to band saws. It's the 4x6 bandsaw group. You will find much information about the purchase and modification of the small band saws. There are a lot of pictures of modifications and instructions for the setup and adjustment of the saws. You should find the site useful. Hope this helps. Have a great day. Carl Felty -------