This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Here find many users' tips on knurling. Knurling is a process of impressing a pattern of lines or diamonds or other repeating shapes around the circumference of a circular object. There are many methods and tips here useful to home hobbyists, whether they have a large or small metal lathe. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. 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(c) Copyright 2003 - 2016 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. =========================================================================== Posted by Ted on November 19, 00 at 07:06:24: In Reply to: antique knurling Q posted by Stephen Thomas on November 18, 00 at 15:49:59: I have a number of antique (1860's) woodworking handtools with the usual complement of coin edged screws and nuts for hand adjustment. What is curious to me is that these all have radiused (round) edges, and the spiral (helical?) coining follows the radius. Would this have been done with something resembling a radius generating turning tool equipped with a straight or helical knurl? Or would there have been specially made concave knurls made to form the convex shoulders? The pieces tend to be 1/2" to 3/4" diameter, maybe 1/8"- 3/16" or so thick. This is largely idle curiosity. I mean, what were they thinking in 1867 or so? But I do need a replacement on one tool and don't want to reinvent the (circularly knurled) wheel for one item. TIA smt Chris Heapy has instructions for making concave knurls on his web page at: http://www.btinternet.com/~chrisheapy/knurling.htm ------- Posted by Stephen Thomas on November 19, 00 at 10:39:56: In Reply to: Re: antique knurling Q posted by Ted on November 19, 00 at 07:06:24: Ted- thanks, I'm glad to get this info. The knurls he describes would be quick to make, especially if the end mill he uses was rounded on the corner to give the same profile both ways. (rather than a saw tooth profile from the straight 1/4" end mill he describes). The knurled patterns I'm looking at have helix angles of 40* from the faces of the nuts (50* from the axis). I may take a shot at making these with a tiny formed cutter held at the helix angle and just cut in and out like Chris describes with his. Some I'm looking at look like the knurls may have been generated, like cutting a helical gear. Must have been something in 1866 - 67 with the carbon tools and dividing equipment available then. When was the first commercially available pocket watch made? Thanks smt ------- Posted by Conrad Hoffman on November 18, 00 at 22:00:38: In Reply to: antique knurling Q posted by Stephen Thomas on November 18, 00 at 15:49:59: I have a couple concave and convex knurls that I picked up in a used tool shop. They give a fine pattern similar to that on the brass adjusting knob of a Stanley Bailey plane. I use them now and then for scientific instrument parts and knobs where a conventional knurl just isn't right for the job. I'm sure one or more of the knurl suppliers will list something similar. ------- Posted by doug on November 18, 00 at 19:52:50: In Reply to: antique knurling Q posted by Stephen Thomas on November 18, 00 at 15:49:59: I've run across a couple of makers of knurl wheels that can supply the type you're asking about. I can't recall any names just now, though. Generally, those type of knurling processes use a single wheel with a blank closely sized so the knurl repeats it's pattern exactly as the wheel feeds in. ------- From: Rich Dean Date: Fri Jan 7, 2000 6:07pm Subject: Re: knurling steve tarvin wrote: > does anyone know the formula for figuring the proper knurler pitch > I have a full size lathe and im tired of bad looking knurles I thought > I saw the formula once in HSM but I cant seem to find it. Any help > would be appreciated. steve Steve, there have many arguments on this in mags and on r.c.m for years. My experience has been, forget the fancy engineering. It really doesn't help. The trick seems to to be to adjust in some bite and run the wheels onto the work from the edge watching closely to see if they track, if not, put on a little more bite and try again. Be sure to use very low speed, same as cutting off) and lots of oil. Also brush away chips as fast as they form. The first bite must upset the metal enough to allow tracking. I only use and highly recommend the balanced (scissors) type knurler. Roll the lathe saddle slowly left and right as needed until the knurl is just fully formed. The least number of revolutions as possible. Good luck, Rich D. ------- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:34:15 -0800 From: S1 Subject: Re: Knurling tools for 6" Craftsman lathe Actually, you can make one that will use a standard knurling tool. You have to machine your own. Roughly here's what you do. 1) buy or cut a cube of mild steel about 1.5-2" wide/thick/long 2) Drill a hole and into the center of the stock, and lock the cube of stockinto your tool post holder. Find a T-bolt that will slide into your lathe's tool rest, or mill one of you have access to a milling machine. 3) Buy an 1/2" End mill and put that into your lathe chuck. 4) using your crossslide as an X-Y axis, mill a slot into the stock that is 1/2" wide by 1/2" deep. 5) Drill and tap two holes above the slot for set screws. After doing this, you will have a block which will hold a standard knurling tool with a 1/2" square shank. Then just tighten the set screws on top locking in the knurling tool and you will be ready to knurl. Also, you will have an excellent holder for a small boring bars that they market for "mini-lathes". Gabe ------- Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 07:58:56 -0600 From: "John Shadle" Subject: I want a knurl, just like the knurl.... I've used the spark wheel from a discarded BIC lighter as a wheel for a small knurl. They're hardened and they're free. If you don't smoke, you can find them along the road when you're out for your bike or walk. John B. Shadle, CMC Online Clockbuilding: http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/online_clock_building http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/ ------- Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:27:35 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: Knurling A better URL for this (there are 3 drawings) http://www.cartertools.com/index.html#AAT http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html > Nick Carter has plans for a knurling tool aht could be made larger to > a 2 inch capacity. His URL is http://www.cartertools.com/knurl01.jpg ------- Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:32:45 -0000 From: "Jim Lewis" Subject: Re: Knurling > Buy a larger tubing cutter and replace the wheels with knurls. Well I tried that last night and it worked nicely! The workpiece tests to drift off of the knurl after few turns but I plan to fix that with some washers that are larger than the knurl. BTW I did not want to take Nick's approach because I assumed that the small lathe could not handle the torque at 1.5" diam (alum). Jim http://www.emachineshop.com ------- Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 22:11:53 -0400 From: Tom Bank Subject: Re: changing knurls Kevin, I think that somehow you got an extra generous washer by mistake. Don't know how the guys at the factory got it together in the first place. I have a number of washers of that size but of different thicknesses. Now I know what to save the thin ones for ;-). Making yourself a new washer of the proper (thinner) thickness is probably the quickest and easiest way to rectify the situation,... probably quicker than running down to the hardware store. As for the alignment of the two knurls, don't worry, even if you were slightly out of alignment it would have no effect on the pattern that results. However, I can tell you from recent experience what will have a really nasty effect on the pattern. Following the directions on the instruction sheet, I have always been very generous with the cutting oil when knurling projects. Doing the actual cutting seemed to be hard work for the little lathe, but it always did a good job. That is, it did until I had three 7/8" diameter X 1" brass knurls to do for the same project, one right after the other. Then the lathe slowed down and suddenly -- with a nasty noise -- began stripping the knurls back off the third brass piece. I stopped the lathe as fast as I could and, when I pulled things apart, found that I had raised a burr on the shaft of the one knurl. It took no great amount of effort to realize that while I had been generous with the cutting oil, I hadn't bothered to oil the point where the knurl rides on the shaft at all! I whipped out a piece of 3/16" drill rod, cut a new shaft piece, and redid the knurls on all three pieces, this time oiling the the bearing point. My what a difference! I felt really dumb, but I guess that's what we call "a learning experience." At least the burr I raised wasn't large enough to damage the aluminum knurl frame when I forced the damaged shaft out. The one additional improvement I think I will make, after discovering how easy it is to replace that part, will be to make a new pair of shafts about 0.6" long and with a slight taper and ball on one end to make it easier to get the washers and knurls mounted. Last point: If you collect a range of knurls, purchase a third piece for each set of diamond pattern knurls you have. That way if you use two knurls with teeth cut in opposite directions you get a diamond pattern but if you use the two with teeth running the same way you get a spiral knurl. MSC sells the knurls individually. Regards, Tom Bank ------- kjw1x~xxjlink.net wrote: Subject: changing knurls Has anyone had problems changing the knurls on Sherline's knurling tool holder? I removed the old knurl, but am having difficulty inserting the new knurl, or for that matter replacing the old knurl. The slot the knurl fits in does not seem to be as wide as the two washers and the knurl. By my measurement the slot is about 0.245" wide. The knurl is 0.185" thick, one washer is 0.047" thick and the other washer is 0.028" thick. These add up to 0.260" or about 0.015" thicker than slot. Since the old knurl came out of the slot, I assume that the metal surrounding the slot had enough "spring" ("give"?) to accommodate the washers and knurl. But how do I stretch it back to force the stuff back in? Is there a reason for the two different thickness of the washers? Sherline's manual indicate that the washers are standard fittings that can be purchased at hardware stores. I tried buying washers, but did not find ones quite thin enough to fit. I can mill a pair of washers down to fit, but am uncertain as to how critical the alignment is for the two knurls to mesh. How critical is the tight fit of the knurls? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Kevin ------- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:29:30 -0000 From: kjw1x~xxjlink.net Subject: Re: changing knurls Tom: Thanks for the help. I milled the washers a little thinner. Everything still fits snug, but now can be taken in and out without a struggle. And, it still produces pretty knurls. The knurl in the other half fit fine without adjustment (Why didn't I check that first? :). I have only had my lathe a couple of months and am still learning this game. It helps to have someone confirm your hunches. I will heed your warning about lubricating the knurl shaft. I also liked you suggestion about purchasing extra knurls, nifty idea. Thanks again -- Kevin ------- Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 17:33:32 -0500 From: Tom Bank Subject: Knurling problems A while back I replied to someone who had a knurling problem, a thick washer or something like that. I stated in my reply that I had run into problems because I failed to oil the shafts the knurls ride on and the things bound up. I have to add to that. Just oiling the shafts is not enough. When knurling a number of pieces, especially with the smaller size knurls, it is necessary that one stop periodically, disassemble the knurling fixtures and clean them out. Fine *brass* dust especially combines with any oil to form a thick paste that will lock the knurl wheels up and strip the little ridges off your work piece. Does anyone in the group have experience with this? Should knurling of brass be done totally dry to avoid locking the wheels like this? I did come up with a device that helped me out in another respect. The knurled brass pieces I have been working on come out with the fine brass paste in the grooves. I cleaned them up with a very old suede brush -- after cleaning the old blue gunk off the brass brush bristles. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 19:31:35 -0500 From: "Rich D." Subject: Re: Knurling problems Tom: On the knurls binding up, I suspect the shafts they turn on is not up to the task. Shafts should be very hard/polished surface pins such as dowel pins. These will last a life time of ME use, when oiled, of course. Knurling is a difficult operation for anybody, even with good gear. The best success comes with a hard (forceful) application of the knurls on initial contact from the edge of the part and then the slide is moved more onto the part at this setting after it has been asertained that the coining is tracking properly. If not roll back off the part, apply more feed (for a harder cut) and try again. Once you get a good track, roll across the surface as needed. Now, one more detail. The knurling should be done at LOW RPM and in as few a number of revolutions as possible. This helps to prevent the formation of metal flakes that get rerolled into the surface. Brushing with a suede (brass) brush helps keep the cut clean but, if knurling is done quickly, there is no time for brushing. It's all over with in a few seconds. The scissors (balanced) style of knurling tool is by far the best for light machines and small parts. Once you are done, a light cut at each edge of the knurl track to clean up will get you a spiffy (I'm showing my age) looking job. RichD ------- Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 21:48:46 -0000 From: stevetarvinx~xxhotmail.com Subject: knurling FYI there is a shareware program at www.geocities.com/mklotz.geo/index.html#intro it is called knurl.exe This program will help you get perfect knurls. make sure you get an exact reading on the od. of your knurls as couple of thousanths makes a difference. ------- Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 00:23:17 -0000 From: "rlg1937" Subject: Knurling Could some tell me if there are any tricks to running a knurling tool. Thanks BOB G. ------- Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:46:44 EST From: JBZ564x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Knurling run it real slow, , a real slow feed too.lots of oil. Use a a live center and run the carriage to the live center not to the chuck. make sure it's centered on the part and 90 degrees. Slow but works great ------- Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:58:25 -0600 From: "Skip Evans" Subject: Re: Knurling If you have one of the knurling tools that mounts into a lantern type holder, I would not use it. Build one as described in Home Shop Machinist. You can get a look at it at my website. http://www.skipevans.homestead.com/ProjectsPage.html I built mine because I felt that the original knurling tool placed too much pressure on the spindle and cross slide. ------- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 00:25:20 -0700 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: knobs [REID SAID THE SHERLINE KNURLING TOOL WAS TOO SMALL] Hi Reid, I suspect that you'll have to make one then. There are fundamentally two types of knurlers (that I'm aware of) that you might consider for use on a sherline lathe. The traditional knurler has two wheels, one on top of the other and press from the side. This exerts a tremendous amount of side pressure on the bearings etc in the headstock and isn't recommended for the Sherline. A picture of one of these might look like: http://www.accu-trak.com/pictures/or2bh.jpg The other type is referred to as a scissors or clamp type knurling holder, and it places a knurl on either side of the workpiece. This means that very little pressure is actually placed on the headstock. An example of the clamp type would be: http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/r-t-7.jpg. Since you're looking at a 3" diameter piece, it won't fit over the crossslide, unless you use riser blocks. If you were to use riser blocks, then you could probably make a knurling holder similar in design to the Sherline one. Even if you were to purchase a knurling tool holder on eBay, you would almost certainly need to create custom holder. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com/ ------- Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 01:23:14 -0700 From: "Scott A. Stephens" Subject: RE: knobs Check out http://www.cartertools.com/. On the main page their is a link to a build it your self knurlers that works with the Taig lathe so it should be adaptable to the Sherline. ------- Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 03:23:30 -0000 From: "Paul Fitch " Subject: Knurling success! I am new to the group and really enjoy it so far. I just wanted to share with you all my first impression with the knurling too from Sherline for the lathe. I attached it to the table and chucked up a piece of 1/2" aluminum round. Less than a minute later, I had a great diamond finish on this aluminum round. Great tool! Paul Fitch ------- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:34:26 -0000 From: "Nelson Wittstock" Subject: Re: Knurling success! I share your feelings, Paul. I've learned a lot from this group. Also, last week I received a knurling tool and used it for the first time. I used round steel stock to make replacements for wing nuts by knurling it and threading a central hole. This is a great hobby. Nelson Wittstock ------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 05:49:03 -0000 From: "Paul Fitch " Subject: Help Knurling [SHERLINE GROUP] I just got my knurling attachment a couple of weeks ago and have had great success using it on aluminum. I tried to knurl brass tonight and found how difficult it can be to meet your marks (so to speak) with brass. With aluminum, the knurls seem to find their mark rather easy, but with brass it seems to be hit and miss (95% miss.) I know that diameter has a lot to do with it, but I don't even get repeatable results with the same diameter. Can any one give me some tips on knurling brass? Paul Fitch ------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:49:49 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Help Knurling Hi Paul, so far, I've only knurled once, and it was brass. You can see some pictures here: http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Projects/Inkle-Loom-Screws/index.html I think I got lucky, because I never even tried for any particular diameter and they came out great. If I understand how this works, then following should hold (if I'm wrong, I'm sure that someone will point out my mistake). I checked the knurls that came with my knurling attachment and they have 34 teeth on them (which doesn't match any of the knurls listed by Sherline but oh well) and are 1/2" in diam. as close as I can measure, the "inner" diamater (measured valley to valley) is about 0.470". If we pick the midpoint, that would be 0.485. So, 0.485/34 = 0.014265 which means that your diameter should be some integral multiple of 0.014265 for "perfect" knurls. Note that the diameter of your material will increase slightly (because knurling is an embossing operation and displaces material, and doesn't 'cut' it). Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:39:10 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Help Knurling Guys, All this fussing about knurling calcs, etc, is not neccessary. Any diameter will work with any knurler. This method works 90 percent of the time first try and is just a matter of trying again to get it correct. Turning off the old is not needed. Align the knurls on opposite sides of the work diameter (automatic on the Sherline device). -Close the knurls to touch the work. -Roll the carriage (lathe saddle) off the end of the work. -Advance the knurls (close together) a small amount to get a good bite. -Set the lathe speed to lowest RPM (~50). -Roll the carriage back onto the work a small distance. Stop to check the result. -If all is tracking well, continue moving the carriage across the work. -If not, advance the knurls slightly and try again. -If now tracking ok, but too much of a bite, back off the knurls a little. -Do not try to knurl the full depth in one pass, but 3 should do it. -For the cleanest result, form the knurls in as few passes and revolutions as possible being careful to stop just as the full depth is reached (diamond peaks are sharp). -The final pass is always ended by rolling off the end of the work. -This can all be done faster than the time it takes to read this. -The knurl wheels should have chamfered (beveled) edges. Square corners come on cheap knurls. -Excessive amounts of metal dust on the knurls must be removed with a brush while rotating. -Lubricate the knurls and work, if steel. Keep the knurl axles lubed as well. -Always allow extra material on the work to start the knurling and trim off later. I turn a small shoulder to accent the knurled area at each end. Happy knurling, RichD ------- Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:54:12 EST From: wanlikerx~xxaol.com Subject: Help Knurling Round/coin I have just finished getting a old Master clock working, and now want to build a Pendulumn Bob for it. My problem is that I want to knurl about a 1/8 wide rib on the top and the bottom of it. The knurl I want to put on it, would be round shape, about 180 degrees, and of a coin type knurl, completely around the ends of the bob. Where can I get a knurl, and more information on this form of knurling? Can I make the knurl to cut it? The finished knurl will not be flat in its final form, but a 180 arc. Thanks, bill ------- Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:00:23 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Help Knurling Round/coin Bill: If you mean a concave knurl to make convex knurled parts, this type knurl is VERY hard to find, but you can make your own. A piece of drill rod (tool steel) is prepared and a tap is used for a hob (cutter). This is a little tricky to set up, but the idea is to rotate the hob against the work that is allowed to rotate freely. The hob (tap) determines the pitch and diameter (width) of the finished knurl. Making the knurl to a standard size will allow use in existing holders. Due to the force involved on the tap, a tip (center) support may be needed. Harden and temper as usual. RichD ------- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:32:31 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Knurls > > If you mean a concave knurl to make convex knurled parts, this type knurl is VERY hard to find, but you can make your own. This is what I have in mind, is there any site or URL that would show the technique you are talking about on using a tap to make the knurl. would the technique you are describing end up with the lines cut by the knurl parralel to the shaft of the owrk or knurl?????> Confused yet, bill CCED << Hi Bill, I don't know of any web site. The technique is very similar to gear hobbing. The helix in the hob just naturally pulls the work around as it cuts. Also, I've never seen any straight convex knurled knobs. I have many telegraph and telephone instruments which commonly use the angled and convex knurled form. Until a friend showed me his collection of concave knurls (the tools), I had no idea how to make them. He builds antique tool reproductions. But a straight knurl? All I can think of is a single V cutter shape on an arbor and the tool steel held in an indexer while the tool gashes the blank. A groove would be turned beforehand. RichD ------- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:17:20 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Knurls Here's some web pages on making worm wheels using a tap: http://www.tjanstrom.com/hobbingawormwheel.html http://pw1.netcom.com/~madyn/Metalworking/Gearmaking/Gear%20Making.htm To make a knurling tool, you'd need to use smaller diameter, hardenable steel, and a deeper cut into the edge, and of course hardening the wheel when you're done. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:24:28 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Knurls Dave and Bill, Yep, that's the ticket, exactly! RichD ------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 18:35:28 -0000 From: "flyrodbusdriver" Subject: knurling attachment I am new to the group and own a taig micro lathe and want to knurl nickle silver tubing to make reel seat hardware for bamboo flyrods. A small diamond knurl would be my choice of knurling. Any idea about where to get or how to make and adapt a knurling tool? ------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:16:40 -0500 From: "Mark Babiy" Subject: Re: knurling attachment I have been trying to do the same. I have had some luck knurling the nickel silver tubing using just a straight knurl on a 1/2 " tool holder, which was milled to fit the Taig tool post. Because you only want to knurl a small area I think you might be able to do this. I have had no experience with the diamond pattern, but I suggest you go to Nick Carter's site and try and build the scissors type of knurling tool. The problem with my method, is that in order to push the tool into the work, you have to put an awful lot of pressure on the headstock and I have had the tubing loosen on the jaws. The scissors tool alleviates that problem. The method I suggested does work, but it is not great. You only need to knurl a very small portion of the slide band less than and 1/8" so you don't really need to move the knurl across the work. Good luck and let us know of how it turns out. I know there are other rodmakers on this list. Mark Babiy ------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:26:02 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: knurling attachment Any knurling of tubing runs the risk of collapsing the tube or deforming it - unless it is thick, best to put a temporary plug in it when knurling. As others have said, you can straight knurl by running one knurl into the tube, although that does place stress on the lathe, and a scissors type knurler like the one I made plans for will give better results. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:26:00 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: How to knurl On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Larry Richter wrote: > The knurling wheels are bought parts, of hardened steel. The pattern > they cut is a diamond pattern. There are other patterns. A couple of days ago I was flipping through "Metalworking" by Paul Hasluck (Lindsay should still carry this one). I wound up in the section on knurling, one I hadn't really read too closely before. One page very casually said something like, "There are a variety of knurls available," and then had pictures. WOW! There were straight knurls (coining), diamond knurls, beading knurls, ones that imprinted ivy leaf patterns, etc. I figure there were thirty or forty different knurls on that page. I'm sure those are still available somehwere, right? I know MSC and Enco aren't likely to have them (I've looked), but SURELY someone still sells those things. Has anyone run across a commercially produced knurl that's got ivy leaves on it? I'm also trying to remember where I saw this article on making knurls. I'd like to say it was Guy Lautard, but I could well be wrong. The article wasn't so much talking about making diamond knurls as making things like curved knurls for doing coining or "ropework". When I first saw it, I didn't have any drill rod in my shop. Now that I've got some,I'd be very interested in trying my hand at making some custom knurls. Well... I guess before taking on the knurls I should break down and build a knurling tool. Heh! How the projects do pile up. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:33:46 -0700 From: "Larry Richter" Subject: Rolls, not knurls, alas Seems like there must be knob marker knurls out there for scales. The fancy stuff still exists for jewelry work, but it takes the form of rolls instead of knurling rollers. Usually a decorative pattern or patterns are placed on a hand powered roller stand that also sizes wire and changes the thickness of soft metal sheets. The decorative wire that results from the pattern roll is usually called ring wire, one of the nicer things that it helps make. If you can find a Rio Grande Albuquerque catalog, they show beautiful detail. My big favorite were spoon rolls. A small German company figured out how to make a nesting pattern of impressions on large diameter rolls that would turn a sheet of German silver (what else?) into fully formed, separated spoons and forks in one pass. Sort of a waterfall of soup spoons. They had Krupp, which then was lackey level job shop, do their roll cutting for the prototype. It worked, Krupp stole it, made them for everybody, and got rich. WW1 and WW2 followed like clockwork. Sad. ------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:14:55 +0100 From: Clive Foster Subject: Re: Re How to knurl >>>So now the part that confuses me. Do the knurls line back up in the pattern pressed on the previous passes making an even pattern? I have been wondering this for a long time. I want to think that the more you knurl the less perfect looking the pattern is, if that makes sense? Thanks, Ric <<< Ric: Once you have a knurl started the pattern repeats and stays in sync as you move up and down the work-piece. Essentially the technique is like screw-cutting in that you do a full pass at each setting but, with no positive external traverse control, you rely on the knurls keying into the bit already done to hold synchronisation. You can get into trouble if the knurl pattern is not a multiple of the work-piece diameter, especially on small work. There have been various methods for calculating the right starting diameter published in the Model Engineering and Home Shop Machinist press over the years. Some are of quite daunting mathematical complexity, all are claimed to give absolutely reliable results but none, in my hands at least, seem any more reliable than just applying the knurl and seeing what happens. Note that there are two types of knurl. The traditional knurl (as previously described) is a forming tool and obviously needs considerable pressure to make it work. There are also cutting knurls available which supplement the forming action with cutting. These work with much lighter loads but, as I understand things (not having used them), need to be fed along the work-piece to perform the cutting action and so won't produce a short knurl in the middle by feeding straight in as can be done with a conventional tool. I would have thought that cutting knurls might be a better bet on the lightweight Taig. I have a surprisingly effective hand squeezed knurling tool consisting of two pivoted arms with two knurls about 1 inch apart on the lower arm and one on the top one aligned halfway between the other pair. The lower arm has a fixed bar with several pivot holes in it so that the top arm position can be adjusted to fit the work. In use it is hooked over the work piece and the arms squeezed together (like a nut cracker). A modicum of sideways force lets the tool work its way along the work-piece. Even on steel good knurls can be created quite rapidly once you have the feel for the right amount of pressure (rather less than you might expect!) to apply. I found a South-Bend Heavy 10 was the answer to all my knurling problems but, in the context of this group, that probably counts as cheating! HTH. Clive -------- Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:07:37 -0400 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Re: How to knurl Hi Ric, The knurls are slightly loose on their axles, and the axles are a little bit longer than the knurl is thick. This lets each knurl settle into the groove of the previous knurling pass. ------- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:14:45 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Nick Carter's Knurling Tool question...... > I am building this as well and have a problem. In the photos it > shows the upright peice (not the upper or lower bars but the one > that is verticle) having 3 parts (3" long ) but the drawing shows > (or calls for) 2. Which is it 2 or 3? Is there any change to the > rest of the parts due to 3 parts versus 2? I've built several of these over the years and I changed my design from the one shown in the photos to the one in the drawings. You want the thickness of B to be equal to the thickness of the knurls. Sometimes three pieces of 1/8" steel stacked together exactly matches the thickness of a 3/8" wide knurl, sometimes it doesn't. By using the B-2 spacers in between the two B-1 parts, you can precisely make the thicknesses of B and the knurls equal. You could make B from one piece of steel as well, 3/8" thick adusting for the knurl width. It is better to have B be thicker than the knurl, rather than thinner, as it will bind a bit if thinner than the knurl width. Too wide and the knurl will move laterally, unless you make thin shim washers to take up the space. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:31:53 -0700 From: "sablex~xxbadger.cx" Subject: Knurling tool to purchase? I've looked over the plans for building a Knurling tool for the Taig lathe, and I think it is a bit past my skills right now. Is there a purchasable double clamp style tool that will fit the Taig? Hopefully not too expensive:) badger ------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:16:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Croyle Subject: Re: Knurling tool to purchase? Go to www.littlemachineshop.com They have a small knurling tool; some modification may be needed. Jason ------- Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:36:43 +0100 From: Clive Foster Subject: Re: Knurling [taigtools] Knurling is right up there with parting off as a subject which sounds easy in the printed "how to do it" page and looks easy when Mr Expert does it but promptly gathers an army of about 54 million gremlins cheer-led by the little man who lives under the bench and steels your tools when you try it yourself at home! Apparently considerable shop language is the norm until you get the hang of it. Basic problem with conventional knurls is that it's a forming and distorting process rather than a cutting one. Hence considerable force is needed. It helps a lot when the rate of forming hits the sweet spot at which the metal flows well. Frankly a Taig is no way hefty enough to generate the forces needed to make conventional push in knurls, as sold in a smart holder with the two opposed knurls close together on a pivot thingy to self centre, work well. For lightweight lathes the standard approach is a pair of knurls on opposite arms of a screw tightened clamp. Theory is to set up so the knurls are aligned on the vertical diameter of the work, set it spinning and slowly tighten up until knurl is formed. Usual problem with diamond knurling is miss-registration so you get an ugly double knurl forming. I've yet to see a convincing explanation of why this happens but many workers consider that a prime cause is starting with the wrong diameter stock. Usual explanation is by analogy with gears. Th ideal diameter apparently should be such that each knurl does a number of complete tooth steps for each turn of the stock. Obviously if its not a complete number of steps then the knurl has to slip a bit before things get lined up again. If it doesn't slip to re-register after the first turn then a second slightly offset knurl is formed on that rotation but next time round the error cancels and it goes back to the first pattern. Hence one knurl forms on the odd number turns and one on the even number ones. Theoretically you could have more than one but I guess that in practice the knurl is not coarse enough to leave room for more than two. I have seen various formulae to get the magic starting diameter but tend to be sceptical 'cos the results differ. Personally I think a major contribution to such problems is the knurls not being exactly and stably opposite on a diameter of the stock. If you think about it small errors and a bit of play could add up to all sorts of mischief. I do all my knurling with a hand held three wheel "nutcracker" type tool. Basic construction is like the old style nutcracker with two handles pivoted at one end. One handle has two knurls on it a bit under an inch apart (from memory) the other has one knurl arranged to lie between the other two. The pivot can be adjusted to change the space between the handles so that different size stock can be accommodated. To use the the beast its simply threaded over the spinning stock and squeezed. Keep everything well lubricated and use a bit of side force to pass up and down the bit to be knurled and you soon have a good result. Starting diameter of the stock does not seem to be very important although when its well out you do get considerable cutting action with lots of thin slivers coming off. Murder if you get them stick in your fingers and can mess up the job if they get stuck in the knurls. I think the main reason the tool works well is that, being hand held, its not totally rigid and follows the knurl cut rather than trying to impose the lathes will on the tool. I understand that there are also cutting type knurls which are fed in from the end and cut the pattern. I've never seen or used them but suspect that the forces involved will be much lower but you need to get starting diameters dead right for good results. HTH. Clive ------- Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:52:32 -0000 From: "Hank" Subject: Knurling tools / was Homebrew QCTP [atlas618lathe] I'd like to hear from anyone else who has a knurling tool for their 6 inch lathe. This general subject doesn't seem to come up too often and the knurling tools offered in regular tool catalogs don't seem to offer an out-of-the-box fit for our small lathes, especially if you're using one of the QCTPs. Hank ------- Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:36:47 -0600 From: "Leo Reed" Subject: Re: Knurling tools / was Homebrew QCTP [atlas618lathe] I have a knurling tool that was made for the Atlas/Craftsman 6" lathe. It was sold by Sears in the 1950's. I have used it several times. It has two knurling wheels mounted in a swiveling head. The shank fits the "lighthouse" tool post that came with the lathe. I do not like to use the tool, because it puts tremendous pressure on the lathe (especially when knurling steel), just like rolling threads. I understand there is a knurling tool that does not put this kind of pressure on the machine. It has a scissors-like arrangement that takes the pressure. If I had a need to do a lot of knurling, I would look into getting this type of device. Leo (pearland, tx) ------- Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:34:16 -0000 From: "Michael Dhabolt" Subject: Re: Knurling tools [atlas618lathe] I got the scissors style from little machine shop - less than $30 - it is mounted on a 3/8" tool stub, so it'll fit into the tool holder on your QCTP. Works great, the scissors type is much less stress on the lathe IMHO. You can crank a lot of pressure onto the rollers if you make sure they are exactly on a centerline across the workpiece. Mike ------- Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:30:04 -0500 From: "" Subject: Re: Knurling tools / was Homebrew QCTP Hank: Check my website. I use the same knurler on all three of my machines. (Atlas 6" - South Bend 9 - Grizzly 12x37) I like this style better than the pressure style (less flex). http://www.bowermachineandtool.com Earl Bower ------- NOTE TO FILE: For those of you with a strong shaper, some knurling is possible. See the "Metal Shaper Operating Tips" file for a conversation 10 April 2006. ------- knurling problems [sherline] Posted by: "Alan Wright" alanx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:53 pm (PDT) This is somewhat OT, since I am not specifically having trouble with the Sherline knurling tool. However, I've had the same trouble with it in the past. In any case I'm using scissor type knurls on either of my machines which employ pairs of knurls. I've had the typical problem of the knurls making a mess instead of proper knurls. I understand that the trick is to find the right diameter of the part to correspond closely to a multiple of the knurl tooth spacing. Today I decided to measure all of my knurls carefully and get the rough value of these multiples for each one. I employed the method of turning the part down to just over the expected diameter for a good knurl, and tested the tracking of the knurl with light cuts until I got down to a size where it was close to perfect. When I went ahead and did the full knurl, what I found surprised me. Instead of getting a perfect diamond knurl, I got a perfect knurl in one angle and a finer knurl at the other angle. It dawned on me that the two knurls might not match on size (diameter), so I measured that pair and my other ones (I have coarse, medium, and fine diamond and also a straight pair). I found that all pairs were at least .004 different, and as much as .008. In addition, the knurls have or had other inconsistencies (badly drilled holes), and I guess are just the usual crappy imports. I am guessing I need to buy knurls in matching pairs, or buy a brand that is sufficiently consistent in size that this is unnecessary. Is this correct? If so, where can one buy knurls in matching pairs? If not in pairs, where to get high quality knurls to avoid this problem? thanks, Alan ------- Re: knurling problems Posted by: "toryranger" TORYRANGERx~xxwi.rr.com Date: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:47 pm (PDT) Knurling tools designed to be use pairs of knurls should use knurls bought is sets. Most of the industrial suppliers on the net will have knurls that they sell it sets. J & L, Manhatten Supply, Penn Tool, Enco are a few names that come to mind. I have all of them bookmarked, but I;m about 1000 miles from my computer right now. Smitty ------- Re: knurling problems Posted by: "Alan Wright" alanx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:28 pm (PDT) I wasn't able to find knurls in pairs at any of my usual places (MSC, ENCO, J&L...), but it looks like Travers has either pairs (of unknown quality, "Form Roll" brand) or high quality knurls (Dorian Tool?) to choose from. I'm still not sure which to try. Alan ------- Photos Posted ... An alternate approach to making a Rope-Knurl [sherline] Posted by: "minitool41" minitool41x~xxyahoo.com minitool41 Date: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:03 pm ((PST)) I have posted four photos that demonstrate a very preliminary (but simple) approach to making a rounded rope-knurl. This is based on only two hours of work, but I believe the concept could work. Further, it seems to provide a means of custom-shaping the surface of the knurl (from a flat surface to a shaped profile) to fit a specific need. The knurl is cut using a conventional machine-screw tap. The number of lines on the knurl is equal to the pitch of the tap. The cut is made by feeding the face of a (soft) knurl blank into a rotating tap which is positioned perpendicular to the axis of the knurl. When the tap begins to cut into the surface, it begins to rotate the knurl (much like a worm gear) and continues to cut around the outer edge of the knurl. Since taps are quite brittle (and don't like side loads) this must be done taking very light cuts and with the use of cutting oil. The broad range of tap/pitch options might be considered to minimize breakage (ie you could use a 6-32 tap or a 10-32 and get the same number of lines on the knurl.) I didn't have a problem with rotational speed of the tap, but kept it under a few hundred rpm during the test. The brass test-piece was made using the first knurl that I produced from leaded steel. The tool was far too soft and quickly dulled at the center. However, it was clear that it could work around the sides of the rounded surface. (Note: On the very best day, my knurling results are very iffy! Using the soft knurl and lacking the correct knurl holder, it is impressive that I got anything!) Take a look at the photos and let me know if further explanations are required. John Maki Minitool http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/photos/browse/4789 ------- Re: Photos Posted ... An alternate approach to making a Rope-Knurl Posted by: "Alan KM6VV" KM6VVx~xxSBCglobal.net Date: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:00 am ((PST)) Hi John: Innovative use 2nd headstock for an 'A' axis! And interesting work as well. Not sure of the term "rope-knurl". I was expecting a decorative scroll on a long piece of stock. Yesterday I think it was a knurling was being demonstrated with an engraving point and CNC with an 'A' axis also. ALSO an interesting way to do the job. Now I don't need to purchase a knurling tool! I'll have to work out the code, 'tho. Alan KM6VV ------- Re: Photos Posted ... An alternate approach to making a Rope-Knurl Posted by: "Orrin" oisemingx~xxmoscow.com Date: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:02 pm ((PST)) That is a mighty clever approach, John, and the knurl looks great! Good job. Have you seen Frank Ford's Web site? He is a luthier, but he's a whiz in the machine shop. Here is his approach to making a rope knurl: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Machining/Projects/RopeKnurl/ropeknurl .html Mr. Ford's site is loaded with all sorts of interesting machine shop tricks: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Machining/index.html Regards, Orrin ------- Re: Photos Posted ... An alternate approach to making a Rope-Knurl Posted by: "minitool41" minitool41x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:19 pm ((PST)) Thanks for the feedback, Orrin. Yes, I have looked at Frank Ford's site, but was a little intimidated by the need to make an engraving tool. In fact, the idea of making a knurling tool probably originated from his site. Actually, I was trying to solve an entirely different problem when this solution hit me. I was trying to find a way to make a small scale worm gear set for a miniature tool I had in mind. The approach worked for the worm gear set, but also inspired me to use the same method to create a knurl that would wrap the sides of a rounded surface on a knob. Sometimes one problem leads diectly to a solution to an entirely different problem. John Maki ------- Re: Ok, so next question... [taigtools] Posted by: "Kristin" kd006x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 3:09 pm ((PDT)) "markzemanek" wrote: > Thank for the spindle speed answer Kristin. My next question is about > using Nick's home made knurling tool in conjunction with those spindle > speeds. I thought knurling is an operation that is supposed to be > performed at slow spindle speeds...even slower than that bottom-end > speed of 525 rpm...if this is true, then is it necessary to modify > one's system somehow to slow the spindle further? Thanks in advance. > Mark Mark, I suppose Nick could best answer that, but I recall last time I Knurled it was on a lathe with back gears and very slow using the power feed. However that was probably 40 years ago so ... Might be a good reason to add a jackshaft option to get down to 100 RPM or less. I am still waiting for my secondhand Taig to arrive but I am thinking this may be in the works as I have plans to do some knurling myself. I am also keeping my eye out for a garage sale electric treadmill for the motor and speed control as that would solve all those mechanical problems. Kristin ------- Re: Ok, so next question... Posted by: "markzemanek" markzemanekx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 3:20 pm ((PDT)) Kristin: You might be able to acquire a variable speed treadmill and motor for free via your local www.freecycle.org The chapter where I live actually has their site setup as a Yahoo newsgroup much like this one. You can offer items for free that may be of no service to you anymore, and likewise you can post a "Wanted" ad, in search of items you are looking for. You just can't post items requesting money or trades. It's an invaluable service to the community, on a national level. I've seen several treadmills pass through my site over the last six months or so, and may actually post a request myself looking for a variable speed motor. And lucky me lives only about a mile from my local metal recycling yard, so I won't have any problems passing along the metal I can't use. Cheers, Mark --------- Re: Ok, so next question... Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 4:30 pm ((PDT)) In aluminum you can do fine knurling at those speeds. For steels, etc, I usually just turn the chuck by hand. See our homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Re: Ok, so next question... Posted by: "Steve Blackmore" stevex~xxpilotltd.net Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 6:55 pm ((PDT)) Why does knurling has to be performed at low speed? It's no different than any other machining operation. The rigidity of the lathe is the major consideration, not the speed it's done at. Steve Blackmore ------- Re: Ok, so next question... Posted by: "pe3hmp" pe3hmpx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 7:10 pm ((PDT)) It's because you are not cutting but moving material. Mark ------- Re: Ok, so next question... Posted by: "markzemanek" markzemanekx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:09 am ((PDT)) I've been digging around the net looking for an explanation too, why it's suggested knurling is best done slowly. In the book "Machine Trade Shop Secrets," page 191, (http://tinyurl.com/3dvbhc ) it states, however that the parameters aren't overly critical. Here are some excerpts. Mark "Start feeding the tool slowly along the length of the shaft. Feeding slowly on the first pass helps maintain proper tracking of the rollers in the previously laid grooves." ...and... "Use feeds,speeds and pressures you are comfortable with. These parameters are not overly critical. Start with slow to moderate settings then increase them as you see fit. A lot depends on the rigidity of your part and setup." ------- Re: Ok, so next question... Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:50 am ((PDT)) ...and that article doesn't agree with you... I quote: ". Use feeds, speeds and pressures you feel comfortable with. Start with slow to moderate settings and then increase them as you see fit. A lot depends on part rigidity and setup. In areas where the knurl comes in shallow, you can dwell and concentrate the tool in that area to help balance groove depth." Roughly translated as, you can knurl as fast as you like, the limiting factors being your skill/experience and the rigidity of the setup. I strongly suspect that single wheel tools don't work for you for similar reasons - to get a good knurl with a single wheel you need a rigid setup. I wouldn't attempt to use one on a Taug for that reason. In the next para it talks about lube being important because it is a material displacement technique, but no-where does it mention needing slow speed because of material displacement. Regards Tony ------- Re: Ok, so next question... Posted by: "mojogrisgris" mojogrisgrisx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:30 pm ((PDT)) I have only knurled brass before but IIRC we used a low speed but were really aggressive in the feed into the part being knurled. This was on large LeBlond lathes though and the small micro lathe might not like that so much. I just remember feeding the tool into the part pretty fast. Now that I think about it the reason it was so fast may have been to prevent work hardening the piece since you aren't removing any metal, just displacing what's there into the knurl pattern. As with everything, I am sure it all depends on what the material is been used. Mojo ------- Re: Knurling [taigtools] Posted by: "markzemanek" markzemanekx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:48 am ((PDT)) > elmer miller wrote: > > Hi gang: A newbie type here While our good guy Nick shows us how > > to MAKE a Kurling tool I cant find any details on how to use it. I > > know what it for but how do I get it to do dat??? Where do you get > > wheels??? Nicholas Carter wrote: > Buy knurls before you build. Every industrial supplier has them, > MSC, Enco, etc. As for use, slowest speed, tighten a bit, lots of > oil...experiment. > See our homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html Has anybody here actually made one of Nick's knurling tools? If so, I'm just wondering what it may have cost you to make, because... Littlemachineshop sells a scissor's type knurler for $39.95. This seems like a really good deal to me, especially considering it comes with three sets of wheels...coarse, medium, and fine. That in itself may make it worth the "price of admission." http://tinyurl.com/yu2xfv Mark -------- Re: Knurling Posted by: "Daniel Fuller" fullerdjx~xxtx.rr.com Date: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:38 am ((PDT)) I made a knurling tool to Nick's design. It works fine. I bought the wheels from Enco. If you need to buy everything, then it will cost about 1/2 to 2/3 of the price of the LMS knurler. Just depends on whether you want to make your tools or buy them. That is for you to decide. As far as using the knurler, I have just put it in the tool holder and knurled (slow speed). I did not worry about the exact measurement of the knurl cutters vs. the diameter of the round to be knurled. My results are not professional, but it has come out good enough for me. Some people are "detail people" and some are "get out of my way, here I come." You decide what works for you. Dan Fuller Carrollton, Texas ------- Knurler [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Michael White" dallashotrodpartsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue May 27, 2008 3:20 pm ((PDT)) I found a Knurler in with all the tools that came with my Craftsman 12x36. The markings on it are: Armstrong, Chicago #1040 tool holder. It looks similar to the other tool holders but with a round end and 2 rollers. Ive seen one of these before at various machine shops I wandered into. I tried it on a 6" long piece of 1/2"x1/4" wall DOM tube. I also tried it on a 6" piece of 3/4"sch 40 pipe. The tool made a very nice pattern in both. Im not sure of the terminology but I engaged the lever that moves the tool holder. Very nice smooth sharp grooves. I added motor oil a few drops at a time. On that note I will try mixing WD-40 with some light motor oil and see if I need to thicken or thin it as the jog demands. Any further help on that is appreciated. I may have said, I have never owned a lathe before. I have however seem them used many times. I also think it can and will come in handy on what I'm building. I was surprised that the pattern is the same on different diameter tube/pipe. Im guessing that it does the same on just about any size tube/pipe? Forgive me gentlemen if I ask a lot of questions. thanks very much Michael White Dallas Hotrod Parts www.dallashotrodparts.com ------- Knurler Posted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" catboat15x~xxaol.com Date: Tue May 27, 2008 10:20 pm ((PDT)) Knurling can be tricky at times. The ideal is that it is like thread cutting, that is a definite relationship between the knurls and the diameter of the work. So each revolution of the work and knurl stay "in step" Not really a hard and fast rule, but sometimes you get a "smeared" knurl that is usually the problem; if possible reduce the diameter of the work a bit and try again. ------- Re: Knurler Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" Date: Wed May 28, 2008 5:20 am ((PDT)) > The ideal is that it is like thread cutting, that is a definite > relationship between the knurls and the diameter of the work. So > each revolution of the work and knurl stay "in step" Most machinists seem to agree that that is not true... for diamond knurl. For straight knurling, it is more "real". However, there is nearly always a diameter that works which is close to the diameter of the rod, and will occur when pressing in the knurl. A knurl which is 0.030 pitch between points will have "perfect diameters" approximately every 10 thou, or 5 thou on the radius. As you press in the knurl, you will pass SEVERAL of those diameters between "just touching" and 'fully impressed" knurling. Remember also that you are not "removing" , but actually "displacing" material, so the knurling "grows" about as far as you press in the wheel. Diamond knurls seem to "slide" on the slope of the knurling a little as they turn and line up, since the knurling is angled. Straight knurls can't do so as easily. JT ------- Knurling Tool Recommendations [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Bill Brennan" brennan.billx~xxcomcast.net Date: Fri May 7, 2010 1:01 pm ((PDT)) I'm looking to get a knurling tool for my 618. Do any of you have recommendations on make or where to buy one? I've seen several on Epay but I'd like to get some firsthand advice before buying one. Thanks, Bill ------- Re: Knurling Tool Recommendations Posted by: "EdwinB" n5kzwx~xxarrl.net Date: Sat May 8, 2010 2:39 pm ((PDT)) I made my own based loosely on a scissor-type that was documented either in HSM or MW several years back. (You might check the index at VillagePress.com) On a 618, I would stay away from any knurling tool that requires you to ram the tool into the side of the workpiece using the cross slide. Yes, I know that Craftsman sold that type of knurling tool as an accessory; that's where I got my knurls from. Regards, Ed ------- NOTE TO FILE: A knurling tool for a very small lathe like a Sherline or Taig, or a bigger but still light-weight lathe like the 618, will keep its headstock bearings tight for much longer if not subjected to the side loads of conventional knurling tools that are forced into the workpiece from one side. Scissor-type tools bring equal pressure from opposite sides of the workpiece and, when properly set up and used, will not harm the bearings. ------- Re: Knurling Tool Recommendations Posted by: "Bill Brennan" brennan.billx~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed May 12, 2010 8:42 am ((PDT)) Thanks Ed. I was leaning toward the push-from-the-side style of knurler due to cost but everything I'm hearing/reading is telling me that this is a bad idea. The problem is that I have the stock tool post holder and it appears that I need a quick-change tool post holder to use the squeeze style knurler. So now I'm trying to find out which quick-change tool post holder I should buy. Got any recommendations? Bill ------- Re: Knurling Tool Recommendations Posted by: "Uldis Stulpins" u_stulpinsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed May 12, 2010 7:00 pm ((PDT)) Bill: A third option is a hand-held, plier-style knurler with 3 knurls (1 knurl on one jaw and 2 knurls on the other). It's used and applied to the work piece just as a pair of pliers would be, except the work piece freely revolves between the knurls when the jaws are closed up. I don't have an immediate source available at the moment for buying one, but it would seem to be an easy, week-end project to make one up. Plans are here: http://tinyurl.com/27c3shb Uldis ------- Basic knurling [myfordlathes] Posted by: "djmorrow2004" djmx~xxldrider.ca Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 1:48 pm ((PST)) I haven't done any knurling since high school. I'd like to make a pair of foot pegs for one of my motorcycles on my Super 7. Can anyone point me to some setup and procedural basics ? ------- Re: Basic knurling Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 3:12 pm ((PST)) djmorrow, the method I use is nearly 100% successful 1st time. The tool to use is the 2 wheel clamp type or scissors type. The knurls must be the bevel edge style. Center the knurl wheels on the round bar stock. Adjust the knurler so the wheels contact the surface. Roll the carriage back and adjust for a heavy cut. Always adjust only whilst off the work. You will have to try a cut to get the feel for it, but the result should be less than a full impression and enough to force the knurls to track properly. Special calculated diameters are not neccessary. The operation is to roll the carriage back over the bar a bit to check the cut and if all is well continue to the length needed and roll back off. Use back gear and low speed. The tracking should be fine if the intial trial was deep enough. Adjust again and reroll until you get the cut depth preferred. Do all this with as few total revolutions as possible. Chips rub off and get rerolled spoiling the work. Brush the chips off the wheels as you go for a clean look. Good luck, RichD ------- Cut Knurling? [taigtools] [actually impressed knurling as discussed here] Posted by: "Lewis hein" lheinx~xxvcn.com Date: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:09 pm ((PDT)) Hi All. Recently, I've been making some things where it would be really nice to be able to put knurling on them. I know that regular pressure knurls canot be used on a small lathe without a scissor style knurler, but can cut knurls be used in a bump style holder on a small lathe like the taig? Also what is the difference between a cut knurl and a pressure knurl that makes a cut knurl cut? thanks Lewis Hein ------- Re: Cut Knurling? Posted by: "pe3hmp" pe3hmpx~xxhotmail.com Date: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:04 pm ((PDT)) I've tried pressure knurling, to be honest it does not work that great and I tried it on soft aluminium, so you have to try a knurler with two wheels that clamp it on the top and bottom, and only uses the toolpost to keep it in place. mark ------- Re: Cut Knurling? Posted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:20 pm ((PDT)) A scissors type knurling tool like you describe is not a cut knurler, it is still pressure knurling -- just not using the lathe itself to apply the pressure. A cut-type knurling tool uses an angled cutter to actually remove chips in a knurling-type pattern, either diagonal or straight. I have used cut-type knurling tools on small lathes and fragile parts with great success, but be advised they are quite expensive tools. ------- Re: Cut Knurling? Posted by: "Adam Collins" rxforspeedx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:04 pm ((PDT)) Check out back issues of The Homeshop Machinist from 2010: four or five issues cover the build of a cut knurling tool (two styles-easier and more complex) for lathes slightly larger then a Taig or Sherline but the tool's shank and a few other dimensions could be scaled down to fit your Taig. Otherwise, I'd build a copy of or adapt a Sherline knurling tool to a Taig lathe. Max OD with the Sherline tool is 1" (before knurling-1.03x" maximum clearance between bolts) and the small knurling wheels are pretty hard to find anywhere besides Sherline Direct or Keo. Adam ------- Re: Cut Knurling? Posted by: "Clive Foster" clive_fosterx~xxtalk21.com Date: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:52 am ((PDT)) The scissors type knurling tool isn't without its problems. Set-up being a bit more finicky than you might hope and many designs aren't as inherently rigid as is desirable. Side play in the arms needs to be "nominal zero" for reliable results. There is a good reason why industrial quality tools of this type have heft side cheeks to keep the arms under control. Lighter versions having simple pivots and projecting arms need to be made to a very high standard in the pivot region. Within reason a bit of side play on the wheel doesn't seem to matter. What's important is that they run free and smooth. Use just enough radial clearance on the bearing pivots so the knurl spins without shake. As always with small stuff a bit of extra care in making and fitting brings great dividends in reliable performance. Always fighting the fact that stiffness drops off faster than size. Pretty much nothing worse than a tool which doesn't quite do it one time in five. Always the job which has to be right which goes wrong and it takes ages before you finally convince yourself that the problems are inherent to "very nearly good enough build quality" not handling related. Anything worse gets fixed or boat anchored pronto. For smaller machines I like the three wheel, hand crunched, "nutcracker" type. No stress on the machine and you can feel what's going on. Easier to make and a lot more fitting tolerant. Mine is a commercial unit which works very well but build quality is er "basic". Simple folded sheet U format handles with the wheels running in the slot on pretty basic pivots. Clive ------- Re: Cut Knurling? Posted by: "pe3hmp" pe3hmpx~xxhotmail.com Date: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:45 am ((PDT)) Any plans how to make a good scissor type knurling tool (with two wheels) is welcome. ------- Re: Cut Knurling? Posted by: "Mike Nicewonger" twmasterx~xxtwmaster.com Date: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:47 am ((PDT)) There is a set for download on the LMS web site. http://littlemachineshop.com/Projects/knurler.php Mike N ------- Re: Cut Knurling? Posted by: "Adam Collins" rxforspeedx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:44 am ((PDT)) The LMS (Little Machine Shop) knurling tool for the C2/C3 & larger Seigs isn't a true "scissors" style knurling tool. I'd consider it a "clamp" style knurler because of its design. I've used QCTP holder knurling tools with a single pair of wheels, shank-style (rotating head) with three pairs of wheels, scissor-style, & I own & frequently use Sherline's knurling tool. For our small machines, the Sherline design is superior IMHO but I'm no expert. Its design allows for quick set-up and fast knurling in most materials, but I'd buy or make a true scissor-style knurler before copying the LMS "clamp" style for a lathe the size of a Sherline or Taig. LMS's knurling tool would be my last choice for a Sherline/Taig, but then I wouldn't even consider the use of any standard straight shank or rotating head pressure knurling tool after seeing the forces involved to produce quality knurls first-hand on larger machines. If you own a mill (or have access to one or a milling attachment for your Taig) and plan to make your own knurling tool, I'd recommend you copy the Sherline design. That would probably be the easiest and fastest kind to make provided you have the needed dimensions handy. A cut knurling tool would be nice and wouldn't alter the diameter of the material to be knurled as long as you don't remove too much material, but they are more complex to build. I have no experience with cut knurling tools to compare them to another style, but I know the forces involved in their use are MUCH lower then other styles, which would put it near the top of my "knurling tools to make" list. Just my thoughts on the subject...I hope I can help save you a bit of frustration regarding this matter. Sincerely, Adam Collins ------- Re: Cut Knurling? Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Apr 1, 2011 7:56 am ((PDT)) Lewis: The first thing to consider when working on small 4" machines such as Taig, Sherline, Cowells, etc. is the size of the machine you're working on. Large jobs are for large machines and small jobs are for small machines. For the 4" size machines, it will generally be more practical to limit knurl TPI to about 40-50 and up. Personally, I never use scissor type knurling on small lathes. My personal preference is a single knurl on the end of a holder held in the tool post. I will attach a photo of examples under my name in the photo section. I prefer this method because it is far more flexible and efficient than a scissors type holder. It allows me to easily produce anything from a dotted line to a curved surface knurl to a full length knurl by simply setting various knurl angles per knurl. The key to knurling in this manner (or any other manner) is the quality of the knurl. If you purchase cheap China/India knurls from places like Harbor Freight, LMS or where ever, little good will happen in comparison to a quality knurl. I would suggest that the knurl be USA made or high quality European. The use of quality tooling must be experienced to be understood. Unfortunately, many Hobbyist now have a shop full of Chinese tools with no quality standard to compare to. Jerry Kieffer ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following article link will be of great assistance to newcomers to knurling. Rick Sparber has an extremely helpful metalworking site with how-to lessons on many subjects, knurling being the latest as of this date. Typically, Rick posts an initial file on a subject and newsgroup users contribute questions and suggestions that result in the subject being rewritten and polished. So read the initial article and check back later to see likely improvements. And tell him if you have further questions or suggestions. ------- [atlas_craftsman] new article for people new to our hobby: Making a Knurled Knob for a Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:47 pm ((PST)) This article is intended to those new to our hobby. It shows how to make a knurled knob that is a press fit onto a Socket Head Cap Screw using a lathe and a few hand tools. If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/knk.pdf Your questions and comments are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. Rick ------- NOTE TO FILE: Here is another article from Rick that will only be of interest to users of the Alibre CAD program. [Metal_Shapers] new article: Knurling with Alibre CAD Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:46 am ((PST)) From what I learned solving "Brian's Puzzle", I was able to form a knurled surface using Alibre CAD. If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/knr.pdf Your comments and questions are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. Rick ------- knurling with a shaper [Metal_Shapers] Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 1:23 pm ((PST)) Has anyone ever tried mounting a knurling tool in a shaper and knurled flat surfaces? Rick ------- Re: knurling with a shaper Posted by: "wbhinklex~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 1:27 pm ((PST)) yes bill hinkle ------- Re: knurling with a shaper Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:45 pm ((PST)) Rick ....you can also knurl in a mill .... doc ------- NOTE TO FILE: Obviously Rick Sparber is going to add knurling to his long list of topics available in metalwork lessons documented at his website. Do check out the other articles there. Great descriptions and photos for many how-to articles and machining tips. http://rick.sparber.org/ I also noted that the knurling conversation spilled over into the atlas_craftsman group, with lots of opinions and comments. But nothing I would realy call new. ------- Re: cool mystery solved [Metal_Shapers] Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:03 pm ((PST)) Rick ....by proper technique /knurler, on 1018, it has not been necessary to pay attenton to texbook theory ...only very rarely so do i need to take a minute cut on the part to get a knurl after a double knurl pattern. FWIW. i have a hand knurler, shop made ...couple 10 in long rect bars tapering & rounded on ends ...on business end are two knurls on one bar & a third on the top bar ...the ends of bars are retained by a transverse bar freely screwed to the two long ones & w/ multiple holes to adjust for size.......just grasp the ends, & w/ this tool i have NEVER had a failed knurl ... again paying zero attention to theory. quite a while back i constructed a massive knurler that also put no stress on the lathe centers, or chuck /center ......i dont THINK i have had a failure w/ it, but rarely use it cause the hand one is much easier/quicker to use ......as i remember, the infrequent failures where i had to take a lite cut were w/ the TRADITIONAL press against the part kmurlers, multiple armstrong & atlas knurlers... there is something abt the other types that displaces metal in such a manner as to accomodate various diameters that don't fit the theory best wishes docn8as ------- Re: cool mystery solved Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 5:37 am ((PST)) Doc, I ran a lot more numbers this morning and my theory is starting to look like BS. Your wisdom is very timely and might contain the key to my puzzle. I have one test sample where I knurled a taper. My intent was to see the correct pattern come and go as the diameter moved from correct to wrong. Instead I saw one wheel consistently making a good pattern and the other making a bad (fine line) pattern. From there, as I mentioned, I checked the diameter of each knurling wheel and concluded that it was the problem. Murphy (of Murphy's Law) was with me as I calculated the new ideal diameter and got a perfect knurl. But my calculations say that one of the diameters that came out wrong was a closer fit. So now I'm wondering if the REAL problem is proper positioning of the knurling wheels. The knurling tool I have consists of 2 wheels that press on the part from the same side. If the tool holder is a little high or low, one wheel will dig in while the other will not dig in as much. That could cause one wheel to form a good pattern while the other keeps picking up new places to land. Since the second wheel can't hit the same place twice, it would then prevent the first wheel from digging in deeper. Soooo, getting back to what you say below your hand made knurl tool has one wheel on the top and two on the bottom. I will assume that the bottom wheels are oriented the same way and spaced apart such that they reinforce each other. In that way the two lower wheels act as one wheel as far as the knurl is concerned. Of course, you need the two wheels for stability given this tool is hand held. Otherwise it would quickly fall off the part. With your arrangement the top and bottom wheels work together and you can't get the situation I have with one wheel preventing the other from advancing into the part. I do have one question about your hand knurling tool -- the positioning of those two lower wheels. My guess is that you did not take any special care in locating their centers. Are they free enough that they just move into the correct position? I also wonder how you knurl over an area wider than your knurling wheels. If the tool is mounted in the tool post, then I see how I can move it along the part. But when it is hand held, how do you force it over and back? I only have two knurling wheels so would be tempted to make something like this: http://brassandtool.com/Metal-Cutting.html It has a floating action to center the wheels and would fit my quick change tool post. It also avoids any question about the positioning of the bottom 2 knurls. Now that I think about it, maybe I can modify the knurling tool I have with arms so it becomes a design like shown above. Thanks, Rick ------- Re: cool mystery solved Posted by: "alan lapp" alanbataarx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:15 am ((PST)) Rick, in my admittedly limited knurling experience, it seems to me that much of the difficulty in producing quality knurls is due almost entirely to slop in the knurling die holder. The knurling dies produce side thrust as a result of the diagonal "teeth" on the die. This can produce enough force to mis-align one of the wheels. Since the dies have opposite angles, the tool wants to twist. Home Shop Machinist occasionally runs articles on building die holders. In fact, in the last year, they ran a cut-knurling die holder series, which was a very interesting, fun-looking project, complete with gear cutting. I don't have a frequent need for knurling, so that projet isn't high on my list. However, you seem like the kind of guy that could really shine on a project like that. The article that struck me as demonstrating good design had a pretty unique feature -- the arms were quite wide, which reduces slop in the pivot bearing for a given fit compared to a narrow arm. A person could spend a pleasurable afternoon or two in the shop with a pile of cold rolled, some drill rod the same diameter as the knurling die axle, and a reamer of said size. For your troubles, you'd wind up with a superior knurling tool. The two keys to setting up a knurling tool are that the die axis must be parallel to the axis of the lathe, and the dies must be centered vertically on the work. It occurs to me as I write this that it would be quite easy to utilize a setup tool -- a long piece of the same drill rod used for the die axle. To set the axis, remove the dies, and insert the long rod through the axle holes, and adjust. To set the center, put both axles (without dies) in place, and place the drill rod vertically between the axles and the work until they touch. Remove the vertical drill rod and install the die wheels. Add 1.5x drill rod diameter to .5x workpiece diameter, and move your cross slide in that exact amount. Et voila! The dies are centered on the workpiece. a ------- Re: cool mystery solved Posted by: "JR Williams" jrwillmsx~xxhal-pc.org Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:35 am ((PST)) Rick: I feel you need to get a matched pair of knurls with the same pitch before getting too deep into the project. I have one tool with two wheels that are pushed into the work, one Aloris with two opposing knurls and a screw to apply pressure and a Hardinge opposed knurl tool that cuts the pattern. It is applied axially into the work and is built on a large "C" frame that is mounted in the tailstock. Another unit I built uses two knurls on dowel pin shafts designed to knurl up to a shoulder. I usually start the knurl on the pressure units by rocking the work, less than one revolution, to get the knurl started into the work and can usually pick up any diameter. Your thorough approach to the problem will be valuable to the hobby. Another thing to remember with knurls is to lubricate the knurl and its shaft. JRW ------- Re: cool mystery solved Posted by: "Ian Newman" ian_newx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 4:37 pm ((PST)) Hi Rick. As has been stated in other posts, there is no need to match the diameter of the work to the knurl - the calculators are totally unnecessary. Imagine the knurl making the first 'cut' - it deforms the work to produce the initial pattern. As the work rotates to the point where the knurl passes over the surface for a second time, the knurl takes the path of least resistance and the crest of the knurl wheel slides into the trough of the pattern. The problem of a double pattern occurs when the initial cut is too light and there is not a sufficiently robust pattern to force the knurl wheel into sync. Once there are two possible sets of troughs to lock onto it becomes very hard to correct the fault. Successful knurling relies on an aggressive initial cut. Ian ------- Re: cool mystery solved Posted by: "epa_iii" palciatorex~xxgt.rr.com Date: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:27 pm ((PST)) The real fly in the ointment of this calculated diameter theory is the fact that the effective diameter of the knurl wheel changes as the knurl is advanced into the work. So which diameter do you use for the calculation, the outer diameter of the knurl wheels where initial contact occurs or the root diameter or the "pitch" diameter or what? Each if these will provide different "ideal" work diameters. The fact is, knurling is an imprecise process. Find a technique that works and use it. You may need different techniques for different lathes, different knurling tools, different wheels, and/or different materials being knurled. As my signature says on another group, "Make it fit." Paul A. ------- Re: new article: Knurling [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:05 pm ((PST)) > When feeding more than once in order to establish the depth of the knurl how do you assure that you start and follow the path of the first knurl so that you don't overwrite (I don't know another way to describe) the first knurl? AJ < AJ, I have found that the knurling wheels easily drop into an established pattern. Just apply pressure before starting the lathe. Rick ------- Re: new article: Knurling Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:20 pm ((PST)) Bruce wrote: > Rick, I've always been kind of amazed at doing knurling combined with a horizontal feed and how it manages (if things go right) to keep everything synchronized. But it obviously does work. A few minutes ago, I re-watched an MIT machining video that had a short segment on knurling. It is episode 9. The video link is: http://techtv.mit.edu/genres/24-how-to/videos/134-machine-shop-9 and the knurling segment is from 15:35- 22:23. The guy on the video addresses the issue of getting a double frequency knurl in one direction. His recommendation was to more rapidly plunge the knurler into the workpiece during the first revolution or two. I also found it interesting that he doesn't have the knurler exactly lined up left to right -- he is having the trailing edge take a deeper "cut". This may help with doing the horizontal feed. It may not be necessary or even desireable if no feed is used in conjuntion with the knurling. For a person like me who seldom does knurling, I found this video (and all of the other ones) to be pretty helpful. So that is why I'm posting it. For those that have mastered knurling, the video may not offer them much new info. Thanks to whoever originally posted the URL a while ago. < Bruce, I would go one further - engage the knurls BEFORE starting the lathe. Think of it the same as trying to engage gears. It is much easier to do when they are stopped than one is spinning and the other stopped. Rick ------- Re: knurling update Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:27 pm ((PST)) On 1/12/2012 4:46 PM, RG Sparber wrote: >> So it appears to me that diameter does not affect the quantity of metal >> particles generated by the knurling process. It also confirmed that the >> diameter of the work piece does not affect the quality of the knurl. January 12, 2012 Scott Henion wrote: > Yes, I saw all that "only works at ideal diameter" stuff with confusion. > I did not really have much of an issue with it. Did you do 2 wheel diamond knurls, or single wheel straight knurls? Diamond knurls pretty much just work if given half a chance. Straight knurls are just about the same thing as a badly made gear, and can definitely have a "preferred" diameter of work they knurl. I've had very good machinists take me to task about it, and asked them "is that the same for straight knurls?"..... the general response was straight knurls are different. JT ------- Re: knurling update Posted by: "Guenther Paul" paulguenterx~xxatt.net Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:50 am ((PST)) I use a straight knurl on shafts that are worn with a press fit to bring them up to size. A straight knurl will press easier. I change the wheels from diamond to straight on my tool and use a double wheel tool. GP ------- knurling update Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:47 pm ((PST)) My new scissors style knurling tool appears to give repeatable and good results. My first test with this new tool was to knurl three adjacent bands of aluminum. Band 1 was 0.0013" over an ideal diameter. Band 2 was 0.0006" under an ideal diameter and band 3 was midpoint between ideal bands. In other words, at the worst possible diameter. I oiled the knurling wheel axels and put plenty of WD40 on the work piece. Then I knurled the first band. It came out OK. I did see some metal particles coating the wheel. I cleaned off all particles, reoiled the axle, recoated the work piece with WD40. Then knurled the second band. It came out exactly the same as band 1. No real surprise there. I again cleaned and oiled the tool before knurling the third band. It came out identical to the first two. So it appears to me that diameter does not affect the quantity of metal particles generated by the knurling process. It also confirmed that the diameter of the work piece does not affect the quality of the knurl. By the way, I'm using the technique suggested by a few of the guys -- place the knurling wheels on the work piece. Apply pressure. Then start the lathe and apply more pressure. The knurling wheels start out engaged and stay that way. It gives a nice crisp pattern every time I've tried it. Once the pattern is started, I can stop the lathe, inspect, re-engage the tool, and continue knurling. Rick ------- new article available: Knurling [Metal_Shapers] Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:44 pm ((PST)) This article is mostly a collection of sage advice from members of various BBS backed up with firsthand experience in my shop. It also talks a little about my modified knurling tool but details will be in a later article. If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/knu.pdf Your comments and questions are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. Rick ------- Re: a different way to form a knurl? [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:23 pm ((PST)) RG Sparber wrote: > When I was trying to figure out how to draw a knurl using Alibre CAD, I > found a method that essentially used right and left hand threads that > crossed each other. It dawned on me last night, when I should have been > sleeping, that this might be an interesting way to cut any size knurl on > a lathe. It would be much slower than using a set of knurl wheels but > would give you the freedom to set the size without any special tooling. > Has anyone ever tried doing this? Yup, I made a handheld pushing tool some years ago this way, I didn't have a knurling tool at the time. It worked fine. Jon ------- Re: a different way to form a knurl? Posted by: "Unchained malady" philip.a.sutcliffex~xxntlworld.com Date: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:38 am ((PST)) Rick, I used the screw thread method for some very small knurls I required, the thing to remember is that you will be using a multi start set-up and remember the helix angle will change as the diameter of the work changes. 10tpi on 1" dia. is a lot faster helix than 10tpi on 10" dia. I drove the lathe by hand from the leadscrew handwheel and used the tumblers for reversing the thread. It's slow work. I used many different combinations of No.s of starts and TPIs on different diameters, very much trial and error but your CAD may reduce that a lot. Phil ------- Re: a different way to form a knurl? Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:17 pm ((PST)) philip.a.sutcliffe wrote: > Rick, If you look at a normal diamond knurl wheel and count how many times a 'right thread' breaks the edge it will give you an idea of how many starts you would need to reproduce the pattern on work the same diameter as the knurl. A good way of planning is to draw a development of the actual work width of knurl x work circumference as a block and draw out the pattern you want to produce, that will give you the helix angles and the number of diagonals along the edge representing the circumference gives you the number of starts, the larger the knurl pattern the less the number of starts but the deeper the cut required. The helix or lead angle is determined by the lead of the thread which has to be increased as the work diameter increases. I think most knurls have an angle of about 25 - 35 deg. fine to coarse respectively. Phil < Phil, I spent some time this afternoon seeing how a helical cut looked as a knurl. I'm now a believer... but the right size knurl and be done with it. Rick ------- Re: a different way to form a knurl? Posted by: "James Bishop" bishopajx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:25 pm ((PST)) Here's another option for a hand knurler that I stumbled across recently ... don't know anything about it though: http://specialtytooling.eaglerockonline.com/item/hand-knurling-to ols/no-k1-207-knurlmaster-hand-knurler/k1-207-20h? James ------- NOTE TO FILE: The current newstand copy of Machinist's Workshop has a project on making a hand knurler. The author says he did not invent it but was shown a similar one where he first worked. He made his own and now has written up a how-to article for the magazine. Obvious advantages include low cost, no need for a lathe, and the ability to add knurling to already assembled objects and tools. Neat idea. ------- Re: a different way to form a knurl? Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:23 am ((PST)) plans for one in recent village pres mag, cut from a single piece of plate .... BUT ...simple to construct from bar stock viz...3 bars, bottom one w/ 2 knurls & V between for small part acess, middle bar w/ a single knurl centered on bottom two, (all knurls are proud of the bar), upper bar, threaded in middle, w/ t handle on top, so it pushes middle bar down against work. pillars on either end anchored in top & bottom bars, the middle bar slides on the outside pillars & is aligned by them. mine is even simpler...two position (for size) fulcrum on one end, 2 knurls on bottom, one on top of bars screwed to fulcrum ...10-12 inch long bars are tapered to the ends ....just, slide knurls over the work & close down on the ends of the 2 bars......bought it at a generator repair shop auction.....20 yrs ago ..quick & effective, the conventional 3 knurl mounted type type i built is only used when i need to single knurl an extended surface. best wishes docn8as ------- Re: Knurling problems [myfordlathes] Posted by: "ovenpaa" tagmignux~xxtiscali.co.uk Date: Mon Apr 2, 2012 11:28 am ((PDT)) d.j.wilson wrote: > > One thing you might try, is not having it exactly square to the work. A degree of either way, may start to solve the problem. Use paraffin or Plus gas as a lube and try to strike up the knurl as you enter the end of the bar. Then do a few passes until it is nice and uniform. A bit of practice and I find slow speed the best. Regards David J Wilson < < "ovenpaa" wrote: > I use parafin as a lubricant and wire brush the wheels between use to make sure they are clean. I have spent a lot of time trying to get the contact area square and have at last finished all of the parts that needed doing, when I get a quiet minute I will experiment by angling off a few degrees and see what it gives me. /d < An update, rather late probably because I have been doing my utmost to avoid knurling. Anyway angling the knurling tool off by a few degrees resulted in perfect and repeatable knurling, so much so that I may return to using it as a grip finish instead of cutting grooves and setting in O rings. /d ------- Re: Knurling problems Posted by: "John" a.johnwx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Apr 4, 2012 1:27 am ((PDT)) "ovenpaa" wrote: > I have to knurl 12 handles, the knurl is 25mm long around .720" diameter and the material is aluminium. I can knurl them OK but not with any repeatability, they are all turning out slightly different. I use a two wheel knurling tool, I have made sure it is square to the work piece, I am using the same machine speed/feed each time and making a careful note of the depth of knurling but they still come out different, some are finer than others and I need a coarse finish, I did get a perfect result with the first one but as the diameter is not critical I did not make a note of it.. Any tips for a knurling newbie? < If you are using a straight knurl the diameter is critical as it's much like gear cutting. They are even sold or at least have been sold with the diametral pitch or module specified rather than the usual coarse fine etc. Diamond knurling is more tolerant but results may still vary according to the diameter of the work. When this does have an effect the knurl can strip off as full depth is reached. A bit unusual but from time to time it does happen. We get away with it because metal is being deformed and can even be cut as the tool is wound in. Knurling can often be carried out at any speed but really it's best to have the back gear in. On aluminium you may find a bit of wd40, duck oil, 3 in one or even cooking oil may help -- but if the knurl has to cut to reach full depth, it's best done dry. I generally always knurl dry in case it cuts and don't angle the tool. Angling the tool seems to encourage cutting and the swarf can spoil the work. Clamp on knurling tools are best for smaller work. Much depends on if the pressures that are needed can bend the work. They are also kinder to the lathe bearings. Only problem really is that it looks like people have to make them themselves if they want a large robust one. John ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following conversation wandered off topic (toolholders for a Myford lathe) into some comments on knurling tools and stresses on both the lathe and toolholder. I copied these few messages from that far longer conversation. If you want to read more about the toolholders being discussed, see the "Toolholders for the Lathe" text file here. ------- Re: Quick Change Tool Posts for Myford ML10 [myfordlathes] Posted by: "David Littlewood" davidx~xxdlittlewood.co.uk Date: Thu Feb 7, 2013 2:18 pm ((PST)) Graeme, I can't help you with tool sizes - I have a Super 7, not familiar with the ML10 - but I have a few comments. First, when I bought my S7, it had a 4-way toolpost. I rapidly came to hate it; it would only hold 4 tools if you didn't want one of them to be a boring tool, with that it only held 3. The tools not in use stick out at the back and are a source of frequent minor injury. Worst of all, I found I needed more than 4 (or rather 3) tools quite frequently, so was forever swapping them around. After a couple of years I bought a Dickson system from Myford, and it has proved vastly superior in every respect. Provided you have a reasonable number of holders (I think I had 27 at last count, but that's probably massive overkill) then the system is far faster to use. I have not experienced any problems with rigidity. On the S7 it takes 10mm tools quite happily, and these are perfectly rigid enough for any cuts the S7 is comfortable with. The only minor exception to this is a caliper knurling tool, with which I have to be extra careful in holding down the holder or it can twist; I sometimes use a Tubal Cain-designed Gibraltar toolpost for this: http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Gibraltar_Tool_Post.html To be fair, some people swear by their four (three)-way toolpost, others, like me, swear at them. Second, I have bought my toolholders from several sources, and some are clearly of non-UK origin, but I have had no problem with compatibility. I may have been just lucky, but I put it down more to being careful in my choice of seller. A seller careful of his reputation will ensure the goods are fit for purpose; one less careful will simply wait for the buyer to send back a proportion of those sold and shrug. David ------- Re: Quick Change Tool Posts for Myford ML10 Posted by: "Steve T" steve.talbotx~xxtiscali.co.uk Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 3:29 am ((PST)) Have you tried the 'Lamas' style 3 way toolpost. I've found it is much better than the 4 way toolpost, and you would only need 9 toolposts with a considerable saving over the cost of QCTP and holders. Steve T ------- Re: Quick Change Tool Posts for Myford ML10 Posted by: "Nick Brady" nickbrady935x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 3:46 am ((PST)) Have tried the 'Lamas' toolpost and did'nt like it so sold it on. Please have a look at my picture album 'Nik No1 album' and have a look at my homebrew quick change toolpost. Nik (london) ------- Re: Quick Change Tool Posts for Myford ML10 Posted by: "graemedurant" graeme.durantx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 5:02 am ((PST)) Many thanks for your insight, David. It sounds to me like the Dickson type posts on the "larger" Myfords are probably the way to go. I'm a relative beginner to all this, but I understand that you really don't need large tooling for any of the work we typically do on our lathes, and 10mm is more than adequate. My concern is that the ML10 has a reduced centre height compared to its larger brothers, and I have been told that the Myford Dickson style QC tool posts like yours only support 6mm tooling on my lathe, unless you use tool holders that have been machined down such that they can drop a little lower, and then accommodate 10mm tools. I know I could just use 6mm tools, and these would probably be fine for a lathe of this size - but since I have a collection of 10mm tooling already, this is not ideal for me! Only (New) Myford offer these cut down holders, and needless to say they are expensive. Machining down an existing hardened holder doesn't sound like fun, hence my thoughts broadening out to things like the Hemingway kit, which supports up to 1/2" tools by overhanging the topslide. My question for anyone with this kit is therefore - is it rigid enough? Interesting comment on the knurling tool. Do you mean you have to fit it with care into the tool holder (otherwise it twists in the tool holder), or did you mean the whole assembly (tool holder and knurling tool) twists on the post? I'm particularly interested in this, as I have acquired a J&S clamp-type knurling tool and my plans require lots of knurling! All the best Graeme ------- Re: Quick Change Tool Posts for Myford ML10 Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 6:25 am ((PST)) Graeme, I would recommend going "Dickson"... A two way version is all that is needed for 99.5% of the turning work most people do, and you can buy more toolholders as you go- in my experience, the only holders I have ever bought that didn't interchange with everything else were the three that I bought (new) from RDG a while ago. I will have to remachine those. Otherwise, I swap between my front and rear toolposts, and I have lent tools in holders to my Father without issue. There's every chance that this involves three different toolpost manufacturers. Eight holders make a good set, although you can never seem to have too many. Another "plus" of the system is that by interchanging holders in the block, any wear causes a process of generation. After 50-odd years, the setup will have become even more accurate than when new. My own lathe is a Drummond "M" derivative (a model which was later built by Myford) and I had the same toolheight concerns. Working next door to a foundry at the time, the solution seemed obvious, and I had a new topslide "top" cast, and I machined it to suit. I have no intention of selling my lathe, but even if I do, the toolpost will remain with me, and it hasn't been modified or with anything else cut about. Trimming the holders was not really an option, as they would be significantly weakened. In the case of the ML10 I am at a loss to find more than one or two photographs of one -without- a Dickson post, and even if there is a toolheight discrepency there is ample meat on the topslide to allow the above approach without causing problems. I would actually be very surprised if Myford designed the "Ten" without allowing 3/8" tooling to be used in a Dickson. Although the initial outlay may seem steep, this is more than repaid in speed, convenience, repeatability and longevity -- these first three things being especially valuable if ever you fit DROs. Lastly, regarding your query about knurling... A "bludgeon" knurling tool is a barbaric, agricultural implement which causes too much strain and is quite unsuited to our little lathes. Using them industrially, the best chance of success was to cant them slightly in the toolholder so the leading corners of the wheels did the work. Even then, it was wise to do the knurling first or last, and certainly not between machining operations if concentricity was to be maintained. A self-contained straddle (or box) knurl does not introduce the same problems, as all the undesired stress is kept within the tool itself, instead of being inflicted on the slideways, chuck, and headstock bearings. The "ne plus ultra" is of course a device that actually cuts the pattern instead of impressing it -- the "Quick" knurling tool, in other words. Andrew UK ------- Re: Quick Change Tool Posts for Myford ML10 Posted by: "David Littlewood" davidx~xxdlittlewood.co.uk Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 7:53 am ((PST)) graeme.durantx~xxgmail.com writes >Interesting comment on the knurling tool. Do you mean you have to fit >it with care into the tool holder (otherwise it twists in the tool >holder), or did you mean the whole assembly (tool holder and knurling >tool) twists on the post? I'm particularly interested in this, as I >have acquired a J&S clamp-type knurling tool and my plans require lots >of knurling! Graeme, The latter; the sideways force applied to a caliper knurling tool is vastly greater than that on any other type of tool, and unless the toolpost is fixed very firmly to the topslide it will twist. I suspect the same would be true of any toolholder fixed to the topslide with a single central bolt. The Gibraltar post replaces the topslide entirely and is hugely firmer. Check it is suitable for the ML10 though. I have to say I find getting good quality knurling is one of the more difficult operations in a lathe. David Littlewood ------- Re: Quality knurling [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 4:13 pm ((PST)) graemedurant wrote: > In my other thread about ML10 tool posts, a couple of you mentioned > knurling, and how tricky it can be to get a good result. I'm a beginner, > but need to do some top quality knurling as part of some of my projects. > I bought a used Jones & Shipman caliper style knurling tool with a view > to using this. I understand this style puts least strain on the lathe, > and so is the best way to go. But what are the tricks to getting a crisp > and professional result? I'm particularly interested in straight > knurling rather than diagonal or diamond. And maybe in stainless if > that's possible? > Any tips and feedback most welcome! Cheers Graeme I'd like to see some gen on knurling as well, I bought a caliper style knurling tool this week from RDG. My first try with a piece of ally [aluminium] yesterday was a miserable failure. I thought (hoped) it would be easy, but it looks like I've got some reading and video watching to do. Martin ------- Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 4:53 pm ((PST)) My suggestion on knurling would be to practice with brass. It takes a knurl beautifully, and is fairly forgiving. This can be knurled dry. Over-knurl and you will get flaking. Leaded steel 12L14 (silver steel) would be my second choice. I have seen way oil recommended for a lubricant, as opposed to cutting oil. Most important to have the knurl bearing lubricated. Floating away chaff is secondary. Stainless steel would be beyond my abilities... If it does not cut easily, it won't knurl easily. Start on 1/2" stock or larger. Smaller stock is actually harder to get a good knurl. If you get double tracking, crank up the tension a bit. It will correct. Robert Mitchell ------- Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 6:05 pm ((PST)) I haven’t tried the technique yet but I’ve read that using a cut knurl is the way to get good results. That have been articles on construction of tooling in recent issues of Model Engineer’s Workshop and Home Shop Machinist magazines. Google “cut knurling” for lots of information and videos. ------- Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Sat Feb 9, 2013 12:42 am ((PST)) Graeme -- you just said the magic words "straight knurling"! I mentioned "Quick" knurls the other day -- that's a tradename owned by Miller of Innsbruck. Their devices come in three flavours, but all use the same principle in that the corners of their wheels are left sharp, and their tooling presents said wheels obliquely to the work, so the cutting action is similar to that of a rotary broach, and what force there is (not much) is ALONG the lathe axis, rather than INTO it. These units are -- gulp inducingly -- expensive, (G&M Tools seem to have had a fair few pass through their hands at good prices though) but the straight knurling variant is the simplest of the lot and you can quite easily make one at home. You just need to buy the appropriate "Quick" wheel for the job -- this will look like a helical knurl to you right now, and you must be sure to get the right "hand"! Guy Lautard gives the words and music for such a tool in his book "The Machinist's Bedside Reader" (page 63 onward) which is well worth having for all the other tips, tools and tricks as well. The knurling wheel can be had from TPH Machine Tools in the UK... I think; I last enquired about eighteen years ago! These tools do work a treat, but they are hell to set up initially -- there is a lot of fiddling involved before you will be able to produce a straight knurl without a slight twist to it, but once they're set, forget! If you do use coolant with any knurling tool it is important (esp. with "Quick" style stuff) that there is a flow sufficient to wash the cuttings away. A drip feed will make matters worse. Andrew UK ------- Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "Alistair Campbell" campbell_alistairx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Feb 9, 2013 1:00 am ((PST)) Hi Graeme, It's worth considering a 'sensitive' type knurling tool, it's basically a clamp knurler operated by a built in lever/cam mechanism -- googling the 'Marlco' knurler will show you an example. They give good and repeatable results without all the faffing around with spanners [wrenches] and guesswork of the standard spanner setup clamp knurlers, and while more expensive than the basic clamp knurlers they are nowhere near the ridonculous prices of the Miller cut knurlers and the like. Plus I think it way Hemmingway made a kit to build one if I remember right. Best regards Alistair ------- Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "Ian Turner" ianturneresqx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sat Feb 9, 2013 1:57 am ((PST)) I have an inexpensive caliper knurler -- but would suggest you have a look at this link for a very good way to go. Of course you may need to vary the work diameter slightly to suit the knurl but for many needs (knobs etc) this is possible. http://conradhoffman.com/knurling.htm Regards, Ian T ------- Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "Nick Brady" nickbrady935x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sat Feb 9, 2013 2:15 am ((PST)) Ian, Thanks for the g8 link on knurling. You may want to check this one out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ZlgGiUa3c Nik (london) ------- Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "Bob Hamilton" bobx~xxhamilton-bob.freeserve.co.uk Date: Sat Feb 9, 2013 2:46 am ((PST)) I've never really considered the material to be a big issue -- unless of course it is particularly tough stuff??? Without a doubt, in my opinion, the main consideration is getting the diameter of the material correct for the pitch of the knurling tool "teeth". Consider it to be like making a gear where the correct form of tooth can only be applied to the right diameter -- as you will no doubt tell from this last bit of terminology, my knowledge of gear cutting is zero. I made one of the Hemingway knurling tools, the one with the eccentric device. It works really well, without putting load on the headstock bearing. I really must harden the silver steel pins that the rollers run on. Bob ------ Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Sat Feb 9, 2013 3:04 am ((PST)) With the short length involved, I have made replacement knurling wheel pins from commecial HSS before, with good results. Andrew UK ------- Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "Steve T" steve.talbotx~xxtiscali.co.uk Date: Sat Feb 9, 2013 3:52 am ((PST)) Graeme, Try this http://rick.sparber.org/mkt.pdf it may be helpful. Regards, Steve T ------- Re: Quality knurling Posted by: "David Littlewood" davidx~xxdlittlewood.co.uk Date: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:52 am ((PST)) graemedurant writes >I was rather intrigued by the info on diameters. I had always wondered >how a knurl "knows" how to put a whole number of impressions around a >shaft. Now I know that it's down to careful diameter choice, which >makes more sense. No magic involved! The diameter does not always need to be exactly right. I think it goes like this: if the diameter is just so, then the knurl obviously follows the same pattern next time round, and you should get a good knurl. If it is not, then it depends how close it is - if it's exactly out of step, there's a high chance you will get a double pattern, and once this happens it is very hard to get rid of it, but if it's somewhere in between the knurl can slip a little and after a couple of goes round will form a single pattern. Sometimes you can reduce the effect of a double pattern by brutally screwing down the calliper tool, upon which one of the two patterns will win the battle for supremacy, but it always shows slight traces of the doubling at the peaks. I have done most of my knurling on FCMS, and I can't say I have found it much different from brass in terms of difficulty. David ------- Re: how to do an angled knurl? [sherline] Posted by: "Inquiring Mind" ddazerx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Sat Jan 4, 2014 7:22 am ((PST)) "Inquiring Mind" ddazerx~xx... wrote: >> I have the Sherline scissor type of knurler. I want to put a straight knurl pattern on a small knob, but at an angle. I was wondering if it is possible to use just one of the diamond pattern knurls instead of the matched pair) to accomplish this? I am concerned that there will be a lack of pressure since this tool relies on two wheels squeezing together. If anyone has a good idea for me, please let me know. Thanks, Dave << Tom & Judy Bank wrote: > Dave, The answer to what you want to do is to buy an extra one of the two knurls you have in the Sherline diamond pattern set you have. Either one will do, but the one will produce the "slash" and the other will produce a "backslash". You then use two knurls with the teeth running in the same direction when lined up side by side. I've done this for all the sizes of diamond knurls I have (three sets). Regards, Tom Bank < Your suggestion is a good one and I have ordered the correct knurl to do the job. Thanks for making this easy on me. Dave ------- Sherline knurling tool vs Little Machine Shop [sherline] Posted by: "Inquiring Mind" ddazerx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:48 pm ((PST)) Hi, I often have trouble doing knurling with the Sherline tool. Even when I pay close attention to the diameter and follow the recommendations on the Little Machine Shop webpage. Does anyone here have an opinion about using the scissors type of knurling tool from LMS and if it works better than the Sherline? The only thing is, I have a lot of knurls with the 3/16" hole to fit the Sherline. Is there an easy way to adapt them for use on the LMS tool? Thanks, Dave ------- Re: Sherline knurling tool vs Little Machine Shop Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:54 pm ((PST)) Dave. If you are considering China and India lathe tooling from suppliers such as LMS, Harbor Freight etc, it will be unlikely that your results will improve. Personally, I am not a big fan of scissor type knurling tools in small Lathes such as Sherline since it is limited to flat surfaces only. I prefer a single knurl mounted in a 1/4" holder per the first photo in the photo section under "JerryK". This allows far greater flexibility in what can be accomplished with knurling tools. An example of this can be seen in the second photo of the antique Lathe. Various knurled knobs on this lathe have been duplicated and aged from original examples with knurling that wraps around a domed surface. This was easily done by changing various angles of the knurl creating a duplicate pattern. Knurling on flat surfaces can also be easily done with this type holder utilizing quality knurls appropriately sized for the Lathe being used. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Sherline knurling tool vs Little Machine Shop Posted by: holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:36 pm ((PST)) Dave, this reply is because you ask the question about the sherline knurling tool and your experience in using it, there has been a lot of suggestions mainly using a single knurling wheel, although I do not dispute the posts from Jerry K. I believe because of his experience on this subject and in practice. I would suggest you to go with the caliper type, here is a site that might give you some information and help. I made one for my Taig very similar to the one on the site and it works very well. It's made for a Sherline. http://www.schsm.org/Knurling_Tool.pdf Dave, just a bit of extra info. When I set up to knurl I find that if I get the left side of the top wheel just slightly cutting and the right side trailing and then place the wheel about 1/8" to start the cut, then produce the start of a knurl, it seems to work better than starting the knurl the full width of the tool. Do it in stages; don't try to get the full knurl on the first pass. Just my observations, it works for me, Edmund Alberta ------- Re: Sherline knurling tool vs Little Machine Shop Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:00 am ((PST)) Edmund, Thanks for posting the link. That's a nice one and the detailed description will help in making one. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Sherline knurling tool vs Little Machine Shop Posted by: "ED MAISEY" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:10 pm ((PST)) Tom, glad someone likes it, I know you have the skills to do a good job, so I would like to suggest to you build the Sensitive one of the two tools http://www.hemingwaykits.com/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=knur ling+tool&search.x=23&search.y=5&search=ACTION&PR=-1&TB=A you may remember I had the full size drawings for that one, and I scaled it down to .800 I believe; it's the ideal size for the Taig or Sherline; in photos Edmund's knurling tool you will get a better picture, and it has a nice feature the other one does not. I also made a few improvements while I built it, Edmund ------- Face knurling [sherline] Posted by: coach_dave53151x~xxyahoo.com coach_dave53151 Date: Wed May 6, 2015 9:55 am ((PDT)) I am a newbie as far as machining. My main hobby is model airplanes. I need to make some grippy drive washers for propeller drives. The factory ones are thick domed washers with deep knurling. How do I do this on a sherline lathe? ------- Re: Face knurling Posted by: "Charles" catkinsonfoxx~xxgmail.com cafox513 Date: Wed May 6, 2015 12:33 pm ((PDT)) No, no! Keep all parts of your body away from the machine -- especially your face! Oh, wait... ------- Re: Face knurling Posted by: jowhowhox~xxyahoo.com jowhowho Date: Wed May 6, 2015 10:41 am ((PDT)) This guy used a regular knurling wheel... http://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Lobo_Pup_twin_6.html ------- Re: Face knurling Posted by: "procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz kwstse Date: Wed May 6, 2015 1:03 pm ((PDT)) Hi, A domed washer might be easier to make manually - brass sheet, a ball bearing, a base of end grain wood in the vice and a hard bang with a hammer. The purpose of (paired) domed washers from my long ago experience was to minimize friction on rubber band powered aircraft. For grippy washers you want the biggest face to face area possible. (?) To the dangers of getting too close to lathe bits, long ago when I had hair I got said hair into the drive belt - leapt back and pulled out a good bunch. Lesson learned! Another time I left a tightening bar in the chuck of my little Unimat SL. Turned it on and the bar clipped my ear and then continued on to punch a 4mm hole in the wallboard of the opposite wall behind me! Not sure how wallboard and facial tissue compare - I'm sure bone would stop the rod eventually. It seems worthwhile to count fingers etc before and after using the lathe! Greg.P. ------- Knurling cast iron? [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Mike Waldron" mikex~xxmjwsjw.co.uk pastor_mikew Date: Sun May 10, 2015 11:53 pm ((PDT)) Good Morning all: This might sound a daft question, but having never tried, I ask you - is it possible / practical / feasible / a waste of time (delete as appropriate) trying to knurl cast iron? I ask because having often turned and milled it, I have never tried to knurl it, and having seen the so-called swarf (USA terminology of 'chips' is better here! but no salt and vinegar) that has come off in crumbly bits, I wonder whether it is really on? Comments please gents (and any ladies that might be hardened engineers!) Mike W ------- Re: [Bulk] [myfordlathes] Knurling cast iron? Posted by: "Jochen Becker" jwhbeckerx~xxyahoo.de jwhbecker Date: Mon May 11, 2015 12:44 am ((PDT)) Good morning Mike, Knurling in the usual sense (exerting pressure) might not work. But I could imagine mill knurling with a tool like the Quick (http://www.quick-tooling.com) would work well. Jochen ------- Re: [Bulk] [myfordlathes] Knurling cast iron? Posted by: "Mike Waldron" mikex~xxmjwsjw.co.uk pastor_mikew Date: Mon May 11, 2015 12:56 am ((PDT)) Danke Jochen! Sie Sind Deutscher, oder Niederlander nicht war? Mike! ------- Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [myfordlathes] Knurling cast iron? Posted by: "Jochen Becker" jwhbeckerx~xxyahoo.de jwhbecker Date: Mon May 11, 2015 1:09 am ((PDT)) Yes Mike, I am German. Not particularly cheap, these Millers, but they do pop up on ebay from Time to Time. They work very well on Brass and Steel, I have not tried them on CI yet. Jochen ------- follower [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: fuddie_duddiex~xxyahoo.com fuddie_duddie Date: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:02 pm ((PST)) Do you have to use a follower when you do knurling? ------- Re: follower Posted by: tpmurconx~xxyahoo.com tpmurcon Date: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:45 pm ((PST)) You only need a follow rest if the part is protruding from the chuck face as a base measurement of 11 to 1. Meaning if the piece is 1" in diameter anything more than 11" from the chuck would require a follow rest unless holding between centers is possible. However, this is not always the case, it really depends on the depth of cut and the hardness of the material. Tom ------- Re: follower Posted by: paulguenterx~xxatt.net Date: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:15 pm ((PST)) In 50+ years I have never used or seen a follower when knurling. It doesn't make sense; the item being knurled gets larger in diameter, and the knurl will also destroy the jaws on the follower. Between centers, yes. GP ------- Re: follower Posted by: "brokenwrench1 ." brokenwrenchx~xxgmail.com brokewrench Date: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:30 pm ((PST)) > Do you have to use a follower when you do knurling? I only use one on super hard work pieces. ------- Re: follower Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:54 pm ((PST)) In order to knurl using a follow rest, the rest would have to be on the un-knurled part of the workpiece to the left of the knurling tool. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: follower Posted by: "Jim" halbert____1x~xxmsn.com halbert_1_1 Date: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:30 pm ((PST)) I always hated the strain a knurling tool put on the compound and cross feed; then I got a scissor type knurler and all that went away -- no strain and great looking knurls. Jim H ------- Knurling Posted by: "Jim" halbert____1x~xxmsn.com halbert_1_1 Date: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:42 pm ((PST)) This is a knurling tool I built, wish I had done it twenty years ago. It works better than I could have hoped for. Jim H 1 of 1 Photo(s) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas_craftsman/attachments/1354921348 knurler - (6).JPG ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------