Lubricants for machinery (metalworking or woodworking or whatever) and for hand tools are discussed in detail here. Chances are pretty good that your question, and some experienced answers, are present. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2008 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== From: Wally Skyrman Date: Wed Mar 1, 2000 8:30pm Subject: Oil Cup Wicking In the past I have used wool yarn for the wicking. Take a small pin punch and thru the hole in the oil cup fill the cavity beneth the oil cup with the yarn. Pack the yarn in tight by hand to get the retaining effect. It takes very little oil to do the job. It just needs to be there all the time. Wally in Central Point Oregon ------- From: Jon Elson Date: Tue Mar 7, 2000 7:17pm Subject: Re: way oil results J Tiers wrote: > I got a gallon of Vactra #2 from McMaster-Carr, and naturally had > to oil up with it asap. Having done so, I will not ever go back to > 30wt or other oils. No Way. As soon as the oil got distributed, I > noticed an immediate easing of movement. The stick-slip thing is > really true. While there is still a slight stick when the slide has > sat unmoving for a while, that is less. Also, as soon as it is moving, > it is easier to continue movement, even slowly. I would guess it > was at least twice as easy to make small movements of the cross-slide > or carriage as before. I don't know what is in it, it smells a bit > like auto differential oil or other EP oils. And I think it will pick > up more chips, but that is what way-wipers are for. It does seem to > work. Highly recommended IMHO. I assume you are talking about a mill, here. Yes, it makes a big difference. In addition to way wipers, you should get way protectors. This is an accordion-pleated rubber part to go in front of the saddle, and a plain rubber sheet that goes from the back of the saddle to above the knee ways. There are metal ends which you drill as needed to install on the machine. I was HORRIFIED when I opened up my knee the 2nd time, and found it filled with chips, after I thought I had been so careful to keep chips from getting into the works. (The first time was when I got the machine, and I pulled about 2 bushels of chips out of there.) Jon ------- From: Pete & Sheri Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 1:09am Subject: Re: Spindle and Way Oil I don't blame you for wanting to do the "right thing" by your lathe, but I don't think you have to be too worried about the lubricants. For the first 27 years I had my current 10X 24 lathe (my fourth Atlas lathe), used whatever motor oil I was using in my automobiles and farm tractors. Then, about 3 years ago, I bought a used Gallmeyer and Livingston 8 X 20" surface grinder. The manual was very clear about the lubricants for it so I bought them and start using them in my lathe, also. Spindle oil is Rando HD 32 Way oil is Vactra #2 (Mobil way oil #68). The reason that I suggest not to worry too much is that I think most folks do more damage to their lathes and other "sliding" shop equipment by allowing dust and grit and metal particle get to the machine than by not selecting the very best oils. To make it as easy as possible to keep my lathe covered, I bought a window shade wide enough to fit over my lathe and attached it to the wall in back of the lathe about 6" above the highest point on the lathe. Then, all I have to do when I am done working is to pull the shade out and over the lathe and viola'! It is covered! Of course I also clean the ways and oil them BEFORE I use it. And, if I am doing any ABRASIVE work, such as using emery cloth or tool post grinding, I cover the ways with something appropriate. When I bought this lathe, the ways had just been regound and the headstock bearings were brand new. Now, after 30 years, the ways show no wear. And 2 months ago I had to take the headstock apart to find the source of a non-repeatable run out. You could see where the rollers were contacting the outer bearing race, but there was no measureable (not be me at least) wear and no pitting at all. Oil it regularly, clean the oil off just as regularly and and keep abrasive stuff off of it. Pete Stanaitis ------- From: philv Date: Fri Apr 21, 2000 10:04pm Subject: Re: Spindle Oil Cup Felt Wicking When I restored my 12 inch lathe there was no felts in the oil cups so I went to a JoAnn Fabrics store and bought a piece of white felt material at the cost of less than a dollar. I then found a short piece of metal tubing close to the diameter of the inside of the oil cup on the lathe. Took it to my bench grinder (a file would work) and ground off some metal at the end of the tube to make a sharp cutting edge. Next I scrounged up a piece of hardwood and my trusty ball peen hammer, with the new punch I fabricated I proceeded to punch out several white felt "discs" . Stacked 4 or 5 on top of each other and put them in an oil cup on the headstock of my lathe. Added a little machine oil and it works great, total cost of less than a buck. I made enough felt "discs" for the two headstock bearings (babbit) and the two bearings cups on the jackshaft between the electric motor and the headstock and still have most of the felt material left for future use. ------- From: Jon Elson Date: Fri Apr 21, 2000 7:17pm Subject: Re: Spindle Oil Cup Felt Wicking Tom Stubblefield wrote: >> Does anybody have an extra couple of inches of the round felt wicking that goes in the oil cups on the headstock spindle on the A/C 618? I think 1/4" will fit. All I've found on the net are manufacturers who won't sell to individuals. << I had this missing on one cup of my 12" Atlas/Craftsman. I doubled over a short length of thin cotton (or similar material) cord, tied a knot in it to keep it from slipping down too far, and put that in the cup. It works just fine, and seems to keep the oil flow rate close to the other one that has the factory wick. I don't think this material is really very special. Jon ------- Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:35:45 -0500 From: Subject: Oiler types I saw your post on oiler types. Here are some cures. Get a automotive hand grease gun (cartridge type) with zerk fitting tip. Auto supply house handle these. Check size of zerk and tip to assure a match. Gun tip is pressed down on zerk to press down a spring loaded ball to allow grease to go in as handle is squeezed. When finished lubricating, remove gun tip and ball springs up, sealing zerk. There is some excess grease on outside of zerk from process. Use clean rag or some type of paper wipe to remove, but be careful not to get grease on your skin, it will irritate! Oiler ball is a simple spring loaded ball in a small tube. Find a oil can spout small enough to fit and press ball down with oil can spout tip against spring pressure and squeeze oil in. When tip is removed after oiling, ball springs back up to seal out dirt. Wipe ball clean with wipe or clean rag. Oiler ball goes down about 1/8 of an inch or so. HTH. J. Sprott Kansas City, MO ------- From: Rich D. Date: Wed Dec 20, 2000 3:28pm Subject: Re: WD-40 on lead screws? Rogerio Odriozola wrote: > Hi everyone. I know Sherline recommends using graphite on the lead > screws, but last night the z axis was dry and it got really hard, I > only had WD-40 oil and squirted a bit on it. It is very easy moving > now, but is it OK to use this oil instead of grease? > Thanks! Rogerio Odriozola Rogerio: Most folks that use this stuff, myself included, say it is NOT a lubricant. It may seem ok at first, but does not pan out. 3 in 1 oil or any good machine lube, never any detergent motor oils. The oil sold for knife sharpening is an excellent mineral oil. Gear oil is good too. Rich D. ------- From: Yasmiin Davis Date: Wed Dec 20, 2000 9:43pm Subject: RE: WD-40 on lead screws? ***No motor oil*** I put a hearty second to this. I restore machine tools and one of the biggest parts of any restoration is the removal of the varnish that detergent oils, petroleum based oils, coolants, cutting oils, and WD-40 turn into over time. I would take all my cans of WD-40 and put them in the trash as that is where they belong. Use products that are specifically designed to perform the function you are intending. Be all do all 3-in-One-Oil, WD-40, etc. do far more harm over the long run than the short term good they seen to perform. I have dozens of different greases, oils and cleaners in my shop but not one can of WD-40. The key here is, all things you use should be non-oxidizing products, and any product that meets that criterion will say so on the packaging. If it doesn't it will oxidize over time. Make your machine tools ones that don't have to be restored by some future owner, or discarded when they won't hold tolerances any more. Yasmiin ------- From: Date: Wed Dec 20, 2000 5:17pm Subject: Re: WD-40 on lead screws? ***No motor oil*** Group, I would like to share an oil that I have used for some time and enjoy very much. It is called the "Highest Quality Turbine All purpose oil (Certified) and it states for "Industrial equipment motors from 1/3 HP to 5HP, shop tools, all bushings, shafts bearings and all mechanical linkages of any and all kinds. This is a product of Norvey, Inc. and called on the front "The original Zoom Spout". I have used it as stated and used it for my new headstock project (not related to the Sherline) and it has performed perfectly; in addition I have used it in several restoration old electric fan bushing projects with great results. It can be gotten in a good hardware store. (I got it at an old hardware store that was converted to an Ace.) This oil is very pure and I am sure that members will like it very much, is cost about $6.00 and one bottle lasts me about two years of normal use. Best Regards, Chris of Bradenton FL ------- From: Rogerio Odriozola Date: Thu Dec 21, 2000 7:03am Subject: Re: WD-40 on lead screws? Thanks everyone. I'll try to get Mobile 1 tomorrow and maybe some other lubricants. WD-40's smell brings back good memories but you are right about it not holding in the long run, all my fishing equipment is gunky. Rogerio Odriozola ------- From: Nick Bristow Date: Thu Dec 21, 2000 11:34am Subject: Re: WD-40 on lead screws? Yasmiin Davis wrote: >> Whale oil is illegal so I hope it isn't that -- but there are a number of oils used by clock and watch makers that are excellent. Some are replacements for whale oil. Some are oils like Jojoba oil. A non- oxidizing product which is use in certain situations. A note of caution: jojoba oil turns to a wax like consistency at temps around 40 deg F as soon as the temperature rises again it returns to its original state. There are several clock oils the best of them being one made in France. If anyone wants the name I will look it up for you. Another product I like for rust prevention is an oil from a tree Camellia Oil http://amos.catalogcity.com/cc.class/cc?main=catalog&pcd=461692&ccsyn=1 This oil will prevent rust and won't mark wood. << Hi, the oil you speak of is called Moebius oil. It is available from clock supply houses. It comes in different types depending on application. I believe the best suited for the Sherline application is Moebius #4. The best company I have found for this is LaRose at 1-888-752-7673. It is part number OL-204 in their catalog. HTH. Nick ------- From: Mac Goekler Date: Thu Dec 21, 2000 5:16pm Subject: Re: WD-40 on lead screws? ***No motor oil*** Hi Guys: The name WD-40 (for you trivia buffs) stands "water displacement -- 40th try" or the 40th attempt at producing an product the displaces water (also works well with grease). WD-40 has its uses -- a bicycle chain after it has been laid up wet. The problem with WD-40 is that it has solvents and after they evaporate very little oil is left. Zoom Spout is used for electric motor bearings (furnace blowers, etc.) and it appears to be a "pure oil" -- would be good for lathe/mill moving parts. I, myself use a "pure" 10 wt. (base oil) -- similar to Zoom Spout. HTH. Mac Goekler ------- From: Arnold & Diane Chord Date: Fri Dec 22, 2000 11:58am Subject: Re: Re: WD-40 on lead screws? [sherline] > TriFlow works very well on sherline leadscrews. Is this what you have? > DuPont Teflon Bearing Grease is also sold in some bike shops, and is > MUCH better. It is based on Krytox, a lubricant developed for the > space shuttle. Check out: > http://www.sandsmachine.com/grease_t.htm > HTH. Ballendo The stuff that I have is called TE2 Teflon Lubricant. I will check out the other. Thank you ------- Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:57:12 -0500 From: Jude Miller Subject: Re: Bearing oil... dswrx~xxwebtv.net wrote: > A question for owners of the Craftsman 6". I have always had > to add oil to the right hand headstock bearing real often during > operations. Is this the norm? Same on mine. I have to add oil every hour or two to the right side headstock bushing. I top up the left side before starting, and it takes days before it gets low again. There are no felts in the oilers on mine, by the way. I'm using light spindle oil in mine, which I suspect is too light, but I've got a lot of it. What are you putting in yours? Best, Jude Miller ------- Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:25:27 -0600 (CST) From: dswrx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Bearing oil... 10 weight motor oil. This is what Sears recommended in the "instructions" supplied with the lathe. It says (the instructions) quote: "Oilless Bronze Bearings are used in the headstock of this lathe and lubrication takes place by oil seepage through the porous bushing wall thus assuring a filtered lubricant. DO NOT DRILL HOLES THRU THE BUSHINGS." Leo ------- Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 02:35:35 From: "robert B" Subject: Re: Bearing oil... My old Atlas, has timkin tapered roller bearings in the headstock. And the right bearing leaks also. I put power punch for transmissions in it. It doesn't leak out much at all, and seems to lube just fine. At least I have a hell of a lot of hours on the stuff in my headstock bearings, and no problems so far.. ------- Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:38:52 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: cutting fluids "Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote: > I would like to get some recommendations on what you guys are using for > cutting fluids when using the lathe (or small mill). I would be cutting > all the common things like aluminum, brass, steel (both mild and alloy) > and plastics. I have used the sulfur based oil pipe thread cutting > stuff from the hardware store - works okay, but messy! I am a bit leery > of using the stuff you mix with water for fear of rust problems when > the lathe is inactive for long periods. I have used thread cutting oil for years, and it works pretty well, but does get the parts all greasy. I do a lot of smaller things with no cutting fluid. Thread cutting and parting-off are things that absolutely require a lube of some sort, or the results are awful (or awfully damaging, when the tool binds up). Yes, the water-based coolants definitely will get into everything. Most of them have rust inhibitors, but there can still be corrosion where the stuff is left on the ways under the carriage, for instance. My method for dealing with this is to spray LPS1 (a penetrating, water-removing light oil) on the ways, run the sliding part back and forth a couple of times, and wipe clean, then repeat until no more water drops are seen in the oil film. I do this on my milling vise, which gets liberally dosed with coolant. The rest of the mill is pretty well shielded from this contamination. But, an Atlas's ways would be right in the path of the wet chips and splatter. I wouldn't use a flood or heavy mist system without some sort of guarding system to keep the wet stuff off the ways. > Also, is it worth the cost ($200-250) to use a mist cooling system > for small occasional projects? It depends. These are COOLING systems, more than lube systems. Their lube capabilities might not be enough for threading and parting-off. But, I DO have the problem on the Atlas that parts get too hot to work accurately when taking large amounts of material off. For instance, if you want to make a shaft with a big flange on the end all in one piece, you start with a large bar and turn most of it down, removing a lot of material. It will get really hot, and there is nothing you can do about it without coolant. I sometimes have to leave the lathe running at high speed for 20 or more minutes, and just walk away to let it cool. (The chuck jaws act as a very crude centri- fugal blower, drawing air across the part, but air is a very poor coolant compared to water.) So, if you do a lot of that heavy stock removal work, DO get a coolant system, or make your own. The technology is not magic. Look at the bug sprayers at the hardware store - the ones with the bottle attached to the end of a bicycle pump type air source. These things are EXTREMELY crude, but work fairly well. I think you could build a very workable mist system from a Tupperware container, some small tubing and a few small plumbing fittings of the 1/4" brass NPT sort, and a length of 1/8" brass tubing. Jon ------- Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:58:44 -0000 From: "Edwin J. Bailen" Subject: Re: cutting fluids Fitch Williams over on the RCM newsgroup uses a 50-50 mixture of cheap tractor hydraulic fluid and mineral spirits (pain thinner) for flood coolant on his mill. I've tried it on my G1008 and I like it. The thought of using a water-based coolant on my equipment makes me mighty nervous. The drip pan under my A/C 6" won't handle coolant in any volume, so I use a hand oiler with heavy sulphur cutting oils that will cling to the surface. Some day I'd like to upgrade the drip tray and lathe stand to use a flood system, but that would definitely requre a splash shield attached to the carriage. As it is now, I can tolerate the black stripe up the wall behind the lathe, but I used to have chain-driven motorcycles, so I'm used to oily black stripes (up the back of my jacket). 8=) I gather you are not supposed to use any sort of intermittant coolant (drip, hand oiler, brush, etc.) with a carbide bit. Ed - Lake Travis, Tx ------- Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:56:36 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: cutting fluids Roger: I either cut dry or use the following: Copper - half and half - messy but it works Aluminum - kerosene or WD40 Steel - Mitee thread cutting oil, often on sale for $8 (USD) per gallon at my local hardware store. For some applications I thin it about 50% with kerosene or mineral spirits. Brass - usually done dry I usually use an acid (flux) brush to apply cutting lube. They are cheap and last a long time. I sometimes use "Edge Lube" on mills, and always use it on the band saw. Stan ------- Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 18:39:41 -0800 From: Greg Benedict Subject: Re: Gear Lubricant Try using motorcycle chain lube. It is available in aerosol cans. It is designed to handle high heat and load applications. It sticks to the gears and doesn't fly off. Just the ticket for gear trains. Greg B. ------- Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 21:50:46 EST From: SNOOZPx~xxAOL.COM Subject: Re: Gear Lubricant MR. CHIDISTER at Clausing recommends..."LUBRIPLATE HEAVY DUTY GEAR SHIELD". LUBRIPLATE PRODUCT #'S SPRAY--LO152-000 CAN-LO152-0063 VINCE ------- Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 04:02:33 -0600 From: Subject: Re: Lube? > I have a Atlas 6" X 18" Quickchange out in the shop. > What I was wondering is what do ya'll use for lubrication > in the little oil pots? > I've been using 3in1 oil because thats what I had on hand. > Is that a good thing or not? Thanks! EDH Dalton Georgia I saw your post on lube for the Atlas 6" lathe. Do not use 3-in-1 oil if possible. It has a tendency to gum up if the lathe is idle for long periods of time. Automotive motor oil can be used (10W30). If available, 3-in-1 electric motor oil can be used (blue and white can), but you may have to special order it. Some hardware stores stock it, and some do not. HTH! Yours, James Sprott ------- Properly tensioning the chain [SHOPTASK] makes it quieter. If there's too much slack you get a lot of chain slap and noise. I can tell when to lube or adjust the chain by the noise it makes. I don't see how that chain can be as quiet as a belt, though. A motorcycle chain wax (I use "Maxima," commonly available at motorcycle dealers) works well on that chain. Lube after the lathe has been running a while so that the chain is warm. The lube sprays on like WD40 and wicks into the spaces between the links and rollers. After about 15-20 minutes the carrier evaporates and leaves a relatively clean waxy residue. The wax is much cleaner than oil and the chain seems to run quieter. ------- Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 06:02:25 -0000 From: dlangley52x~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Gear Lubricant In atlas_craftsman, Greg Benedict wrote: > Try using motorcycle chain lube. It is available in aerosol cans. It > is designed to handle high heat and load applications. It sticks to > the gears and doesn't fly off. Just the ticket for gear trains Heavy lubes that stick on the gears also have the ability to catch and hold chips. That isn't good on your gears. Especialy if you have the bad habit of cleaning up around the lathe with an air hose. Learned not to do that the hard way cost me a set of spindle bearings on the Atlas. Later Dale ------- Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 05:07:36 -0000 From: ballendox~xxyahoo.com Subject: re:Re: Question for Craig Libuse: Cutting Lathe Bits In sherline, "tauseef" wrote: > hey rich thanks for the link. By the way what cutting fuild do YOU use > for aluminum (6061-T6) and for the steel that you cut? thanks tauseef Tauseef, I'm not Rich, but for 6061-T6 we use WD-40 for milling, A-9 for drilling/tapping. For typical steels: mild 1018, 12L14. etc. we use Hagenstorfer S500 and for stainless we use Westlube. on cnc's we run the s500 (looks like milk). HTH. Ballendo ------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 00:11:06 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Oil and lubrication Ed Drobny wrote: >> I have recently purchased a 10 inch atlas lathe. I checked some of the old posts for lubrication information, but I'm stillnot sure what to use. Most folks seem to think that Lubriplate heavy duty gear shield is the product of choice for the gears themselves. What about the ways? The bearings? What about the pulley shaft bearings where Atlas recommends "medium grade automotive grease". Atlas recommeds SAE 20 for most of the above lubrication. Is this nondetergent oil, or does it matter? I have looked at some spindle oils in catalogs-are ISO grades the same as SAE viscosity grades? << If you have the countershaft with the screw-on grease cups, then automotive axle grease from the local auto or hardware store should work fine. The ways, leadscrews, apron, etc. can be lubed with non-detergent SAE 20 weight oil, or way oil from a machinist's supply outfit. The way oil is made 'sticky' to allow it to cling to surfaces longer. Some people believe the detergent will hold moisture or particles. It is pretty clear that detergent oils get gummy in cavities and bearings. The bearings can be lubed with the SAE 20 oil, or spindle oil for roller bearings, if that's what you have. SAE 20 is fine for babbit bearings. Jon ------- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:29:15 -0000 From: epdrobnyx~xxhuntel.net Subject: Lubrication answers After posting my previous questions on lubrication, I called Mobil and talked to an "expert advisor". According to him, the #10 spindle oil that some folks use is way too thin (less than SAE 5). He recommended DTE heavy/medium oil which is a "little" thicker than SAE 20. He recommended their #2 way oil. For the equivalent of Keystone Moly-29, he recommended Mobil tach 375-NC spray oil/grease. My supplier only had Exxon dynagear spray, an equivalent oil for open gears. For an approximantion, ISO 22 is about euqal to SAE 10, and ISO 46 is about the same as SAE 20. I hope that this helps someone out there. ------- Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:37:26 -0000 From: "alfred piszcz" Subject: spindle bearing lube [ATLAS 6" LATHE] Nick, There should be a "GITS" oiler on the back of the headstock just below the backgear lever. Mine has a right angle oiler. I don't believe the bearings are sealed, just shielded. Page 3 of the manual says to lubricate the spindle bearings daily with SAE # 20 oil. Fill oiler until oil seeps out of side of headstock underneath the spindle. It does not accept oil readily but you will soon learn to give it just enough daily to keep from making a mess below the chuck. It does seem to retain the oil well. al 6x18--ser #002118--purchased new from factory 3/7/78 ------- Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:55:45 -0400 From: "Ebower" Subject: Re: Tumbler Gears On Atlas 12" Lathe Try to get a can of spray "wire and open gear" lube. It has graphite in it and I use it on all the lathes I have in my shop. There usually will be less noise if the gears are sprayed about once a week, with moderate use of the machine. Earl ------- From: johnt49x~xxh... Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 9:56 am Subject: lubrication What are the pros & cons of using a synthetic oil vs a petroleum based oil to lube the moving parts of an Atlas 618. I've disassembled all moving parts & cleaned them & I'm replacing the spindle bearings. Also, would this be good to use on the ways & other non moving parts to prevent corrosion. I live in S. Fl. where the humidity will eat up unprotected parts in no time. Thanks, John ------- From: "Don Colbath" Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 11:00 am Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] lubrication I have been studying the natural vs synthetic oil for a while when discussions started between members of the Experimental Aircraft Association about which to use in their airplanes. I'm not a complete expert but I use a blend in my car now. It seems that synthetics have good cleaning, lubricating, temperature stability properties and the ability to carry off particals to a filter. What they are not good at is preserving metal from rust. The anecdotal version is that they are so slippery that they slip off the metal, like your crank and camshaft, while your plane sits unused for months and rust and pitting occurr. What convinced me was an experiment I did. I took an old brake disc that was sitting around rusting and wire brushed it clean. I then scribed a line down the middle and etched the word oil and synth on each side so I could identify it later. I coated half with regular 10W30 and half with synthetic and set it outside in the weather. Sure enough over the period of a month or six weeks the synth side developed rust while the natural oil side didn't. Not totally scientific but good enough to convince me. This is similar to what we found years ago when I used to work on Selectric typewriters for the State of Texas. We found that Marvel Mystery Oil was marvelous for dissolving crud and that it migrated into real tight spots by capillary action much quicker than the IBM #10 oil we had been using. However, it was not good for long term lubrication as it tended to "evaporate out" like WD40 and other thin oils. We went to a 50/50 mixture and that worked great. Don Colbath Austin Texas Never fry chicken when you're naked! ------- From: Date: Tue Jul 3, 2001 5:57 am Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] lubrication Don: Thank you for the interesting explanation. I will keep that in my mind when restoring the machines to come this year. The funny expression at the bottom of your mail is unknown here. Is that because the chicken might be frightened ? Jean-Claude, Switzerland www.homestead.com/turnandmill ------- From: larry ice Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 1:24 pm Subject: oil Hi Don: Interesting comment about frying chicken. Did you use a 50-50 mixture while frying the chicken. Or...maybe you should have basted it on yourself and not on the chicken. Just a thought... Iceman ------- From: larry ice Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 1:33 pm Subject: lubrication Hi JC: No the expression a refers to how hard it is to get the chicken to stand still while being oiled. It also makes it hard to pickup eggs. What is this crazy Fourth of July or what. Hope everybody is enjoying the holiday. Iceman ------- From: larry ice Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 1:35 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] lubrication John, use it constantly! Try keeping it covered with WD-40 between uses. Did I just start a WD40 thread or what? Iceman ------- From: S1 Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 1:26 am Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] lubrication After I am done for the evening, I use WD 40 to protect the ways of my lathe and the table on the mill. It works real well. It seals the metal real nice and, on the edges, penetrates enough into the gibs to help keep them lubricated. It keeps everything running like new. Living in St. Louis, with its inhumanly humid summers, I think it's a must. Gabe ------- From: "jerdal" Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 11:39 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] lubrication Use of way oil has proved a very good protection, also in St Louis. Nary a bit of rust, despite never quite knowing if there may be condensing conditions. WD-40, btw, has proved to allow rust inside of 24 hours. I am NOT starting a WD40 thing, merely reporting!!! Jerry ------- From: "Bob May" Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 12:56 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] lubrication WD-40 displaces the water but has the problem of being highly evaporative and thus it only works for a short while. Anytime you want to insure protection, use WD-40 to clean the water off and then apply a regular oil to maintain the film. The WD-40 will assist the oil in covering everything by its thinning the oil to where it will quickly get into all the little holes, etc. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay ------- From: Jim Rigel Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 11:18 pm Subject: Re:lubrication I use 30 oil with a small amount of STP added. I found without the STP that some moistured got on the ways through the oil, but with the addition of STP none does. I have used this on my lathe for 25 years and it still looks like new. No rust or wear. I do clean the lathe and reoil often. Jim ------- From: sleykinx~xxa... Date: Thu Aug 9, 2001 8:01 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas 618 need parts ND Non-detergent oils are for machine applications. Detergent oils are for IC engines to break down carbons from combustion and carry them to the filter. On machinery you don't want the oil to suspend particles and carry it around to keep doing damage. You want it to settle out and stay at the bottom. (as in a gearhead) ------- From: "Jeffrey C. Dege" Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 12:30 am Subject: Rust Haven't touched the Taig in a couple of months - and I find the beginnings of rust on some components. (Back of the chuck, etc.) Well yes, I oiled things down. But any general advice? How to store things so as to avoid rust, without getting oil and grease all over everything? Anything to avoid? Am I right, in thinking that the cardboard boxes that the parts ship in absorb sufficient moisture to encourage rust? Are there any alternatives? What do people use? ------- From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 1:42 am Subject: Re: [taigtools] Rust Those little silica dessicant packs that you get with electronic gear, etc. are good. Where are you storing things? ------- From: Tom Benedict Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 5:54 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] Rust Be careful of Naval Jelly. The stuff's great and all, but it'll eat black oxide off of tools in a heartbeat. (My Sherline rotary table looks like a disaster because of this.) > Am I right, in thinking that the cardboard boxes that the > parts ship in absorb sufficient moisture to encourage rust? > Are there any alternatives? What do people use? My shop's out in my shed, so rust prevention is a real need. This is what I do, but if someone has tried this and found something better, let me know. I use Boeshield whenever possible. Boeshield was some stuff developed by Boeing to keep the insides of airplane wings from getting rusty. It leaves a slightly waxy residue behind, but even a really thin coat will block nearly all rust. I got a can at Woodcraft, and it's lasted almost half a year (including using a ton on a shaper I'm still refurbishing.) I've still got plenty in the can. One place I've found that Boeshield doesn't work so well is on the ways. If I know I'm not going to be out in the shop for a while, I'll Boeshield the lot of it. But when I come back, I'll hit the ways with some WD-40 to break down the Boeshield, then wipe them down with way oil. Tom ------- From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 10:21 pm Subject: RE: [taigtools] Rust Tom: One thing about BoeShield - I use it for woodworking machinery, hadn't even thought about putting it on my Sherlines - is that you really should give it a good rubbing down about a day after you apply it. It tends to get a bit tacky if you don't buff it well and acts like a sawdust magnet. On a Lathe way, for example, I'd expect the tailstock to want to stick if you don't buff it out well. Then, apply a coat of good wax. I use Simoniz or Johnson's, but not the stuff for floors that has slip inhibitors built in. Trewax also works well. Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- From: "Jeffrey C. Dege" Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 9:17 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] Rust Way oil? I mixed a batch of home-brew gun oil a while back. 2 parts Auto Transmission Fluid, 1 part Mobile-1 30 weight, 1 part STP oil treatment. Makes a nice sticky mix. ------- Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:56:02 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Turbine oil > Right now my way oil is a bottle of turbine oil I wound up > with for some reason. The price was right (free, since I have > no memory of buying it), and it works great. Tom I also use turbine oil and I really like it. The stuff I got comes in a bottle with a very long extending tube which makes it easy to get into tight spots with it. Ken J. ------- Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 19:37:55 EDT From: MMksanchezx~xxaol.com Subject: Belated Thanks [RE OIL CUPS/WICKS] A couple of weeks ago, I asked for some advice about how to solve a problem with my craftsman lathe. The problem was, that it leaked lubricant to the point where the oil caps would drain within 5 minutes. Well, someone suggested that I should check the wicks in the cups - my lathe didn't have any wicks, so out of an old cotton shoe lace (my wife's) I fashioned two wicks, and it worked like a charm! Thank you very much to all of the crew for their many suggestions! Manny ------- Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 06:06:00 +0000 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Lubricant for QC Gearbox [atlas_craftsman] James Bacon wrote: > I know I saw a thread on this topic several months ago so I apologize for asking the question again: Can anyone tell me what the recommended lube is for a quickchange gearbox? I seem to remember some discussion many months ago of oil vs. some type of grease, but I don't remember the specifics. I recently acquired a QC for my Atlas 10" lathe and I'd like to install it soon. Any advice is appreciated. < The Atlas book indicates SAE # 20 oil applied weekly to the 6 oil cups on the (12") QC box itself. The gear train bushings are to beoiled daily with SAE # 20. There is also a note to lube gear TEETH with "Keystone No. 122 gear lubricant or equivalent". I have no idea what this stuff is, but any light grease is probably OK. If anyone has a more specific substitute, or can tell where to get the real thing, let us know. Jon ------- Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 23:09:20 -0700 From: "Larry Bailey" Subject: Re: Lubricant for QC Gearbox I had a supplier cross-reference this stuff, and he came up with what's called an open gear lube. It's in a spray can, messy as hell, black, kind of reminds me of motorcycle chain lube. It's a Chevron product. It seems to work well, the carrier doesn't fully evaporate, so it stays fairly liquid but doesn't fling off. Some on this and other boards will tell you not to use a grease for fear of getting chips embedded in it and damaging gear teeth. YMMV Larry ------- Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 23:15:49 -0700 From: Chris Difani Subject: Re: Lubricant for QC Gearbox and Gears in General The Lubriplate product number GR-132, is the functional equivalent of the Keystone 122 grease. What is special about these lubricants is that they will "self-feed" back into the gear teeth. With most lubricants, when it is squeezed out of the meshing teeth, it stays "out", and eventually all the lubricant is on the outside edges of the gears, and none is on the meshing portions of the gear teeth. Lubriplate GR-132 feeds itself back into the teeth, so there is a constant circulation of lubricant into the meshing teeth. It is a remarkable product and makes a big difference on whatever kinds/types of gear teeth it is used on. It is specified for use on both plastic and metallic gears. HTH. Chris ------- Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:27:54 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Machine Lubricant >Craig; What is the exact name of the new synthetic grease you are now using on your machines? I have found Mobile 1 in a red color but no mention of it containing Teflon. Your response will be appreciated.< Joe: We buy it in a five-gallon bucket from Synco Chemical Corp. The brand name is Super-Lube with Syncolon (PTFE). You can try their web site at www.super-lube.com or call (800) 253-LUBE. It is a clear, white color. From their web site you can order a 3-ounce tube for $5.00 plus $2.00 shipping. It also comes in other small sizes. I don't think the Mobil 1 equivilent is red. That sounds more like wheel bearing grease. The Mobil 1 with teflon definitely says "with Teflon" on it. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. [NOTE TO FILE: also available at tire/auto stores] ------- Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:54:09 -0700 From: "Yasmiin Davis" Subject: RE: Machine Lubricant Super lube is great stuff -- I buy it at my local hardware store. This is a store that stocks a lot of stuff but I would think you should be able to find it elsewhere. Seems like Eagle hardware or other large hardware should have it. Its clear and doesn't make a mess. With that old black grease I invariably get it all over me when I just walk by a machine. Yasmiin ------- Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:36:14 -0600 From: Jim Irwin Subject: Re: Re: Cleaning and oiling 3-in-1 and WD40 have two characteristics in common. They're both very poor lubricants/protectors, AND both turn to varnish on your good tools in fairly short order. Oh, yes, and they are popular and available everywhere for some strange reason. Good marketing I suppose. Use good oil...it costs little more but pays off so much more. ATF [Automatic Transmission Fluid] is a very good substitute for 20 wt oil. Or buy some good brand of 20wt motor oil. Really cheap by comparison and so much better. Best regards, Jim Irwin ------- Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 19:12:59 -0000 From: kkoepkex~xxspacehab.com Subject: Re: Cleaning and oiling > From the can, 3-in-One is a 20 wt oil that meets SAE 20 specifications. I have read comments in this group about using a strong detergent and water to clean machine and auto parts with great success. Well, I was a bit skeptical about touching water to any clean ferrous metal item, until last night. I purchased a bottle of Simple Green and went to work at the kitchen sink on an item off my latest purchase. Yes, you do have to wipe off with a towel soon after these items are rinsed, but a couple hours later after a thorough air drying, I wiped some oil on the parts before assembly. I was amazed at how clean these parts were. Using Varsol would always leave a dry residue, and have grit from previous items (since I used a small can to dip and rinse). With a clean water rinse, there's no residue or grit left, and now I have that pumped parts cleaner I've always wanted. I'm sold. Kevin Koepke ------- Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:54:49 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: New lathe owner with questions... In a message dated 11/23/2001 tdmorgansrx~xxyahoo.com writes: > The owner's manual says use S.A.E. 20 in certain places weekly, > daily and so on. What is S.A.E. 20? And, since this lathe is old, > I am sure lubricants have been substantially improved since then SAE stands for the Society of Automotive Engineers. and is a measure of how "thick" the oil is. Go to a car parts place and ask for 20 weight NON DEGERGENT oil. It will be a cheap brand too. Don't think that you will doiing your lathe a favor by buying an expensive oil such as Mobil 1. You don't want all the additives in the more expensive motor oils. For the ways and slides get some "Way Oil" from one of the regular suppliers. Also use the cheap motor oil on the gears, not grease as swarf (chips) will stick to the grease and grind your gears. But, a good synthectic oil such as Mobil 1 makes a good cutting fluid as the heat of cutting does not drive it away from the work area. P.S. label your squirter oil cans so you will know which can contains which oil, I didn't now have unknown fluids in various cans. (The steam oil is much darker, but from there I am lost.) John Meacham California High Desert ------- Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:26:49 EST From: LADDERBARx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: 12" Atlas - excessive vibration I use a product called MUSCLE. It's an additive made my lathe run smoother and 90% quieter. On the gears I mix it with a little way lube, use it straight on everything else. This stuff works great. I'll try to get more info if any wants it. The product is called MT-10 Metal Treatment. The address is Muscle Products Corp. 112 Fennell Drive Butler, PA. 16002. http://www.mpc-home.com Happy chip making Mike ------- Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:09:21 -0600 From: "Fred & Liz Lusen" Subject: Re: Oil or Lube? [atlas_craftsman] January 09, 2002 "rkueffer25" wrote: > I've had my 10" F series lathe for a couple of years and finally got > off my duff a couple of weeks ago and started tearing it apart, > cleaning, painting and replacing parts as I go. Right now I've got > the apron, tail stock and saddle apart & painted. I'm ready to start > putting them back together (before I forget how they went back > together) and I was wondering, how should I lube the mating surfaces, > should I use oil (10w non-detergent) or should I put something like a > moly lube on it as it won't be up & running for a couple of months > (hopefully). TIA Best thing to do is go to Guy Lautard's site http://www.lautard.com/ and get a copy of his "A Brief Treatise on Oiling Machine Tools" under the books bullet. It is well worth it. Fred ------- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 07:07:29 +0000 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Oil or Lube? I used SAE 20W oil, as spec'd in the book. I have recently switched over to ISO VG 68 way oil, but I can't say if it is actually better for the bed and cross slide. The roller bearing headstock is supposed to use SAE 10W oil. Jon ------- Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 23:00:08 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Oil Can > Going back to the oiler topic for a moment, the trigger type oilers > are usually too clumsy for this job. Some general purpose oils are > sold in cans with a narrow screw-on spout and that works (back to the > hardware store !!!!!). I bought a small squeeze oil can from a local > sewing machine store (I know, but you have to be creative) used for > the inner bits of those machines. It has a see-thru narrow plastic > spout and is ideal for pushing down those little bearings without any > risk of damage. Having become irritated with the large nose on pump oil cans when oiling ball oilers, I made a replacement screw-on nose to do it. It is a needle- nose, with diameter large enough to seat on the hole, a taper sufficient to press the ball in but still allow seating, and a cross-cut on the tip, to allow the oil to escape into the oiler. Hardened after machining. Works quite well. Jerry ------- Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:50:25 -0000 From: "larrytbrunner" Subject: Rust/Corrosion Anyone wishing to free threads that are rusted, should try Oil of Wintergreen, available at the local drug store. I have a bottle in my shop and have used this with success for 40 years. ------- Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 21:47:30 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Opinion on lubricants With metals, except steel, when I use anything at all, I just spray WD-40 on. If it over-sprays all over the place .... fine, I just wipe everything down at the end. Steels are a whole different ballgame. I use turbine oil and take very fine cuts. Clean up after working with steel is much more meticulous. I like to make doubly sure all the swarf is removed from everywhere. Steel chips can get under and in things where they do real damage. I remember one tip that said use a powerful magnet inside a plastic baggy. After you pick up everything turn it inside out and toss it ... never tried it but it sounds pretty neat. Lubricants will help you achieve a better finish but sharp tooling makes much more of a difference in my opinion. They will definitely make tools last longer between sharpening but I don't run enough metal through my machine to make that a real concern. You can also try using "tapping fluid" especially formulated for aluminum. Ken Jenkins ------- Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 02:50:55 +0000 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Can someone explain oil cups and wicks? LouD31M066x~xxaol.com wrote: >> My knowledge is pretty thin in wicks. I got replacement material from Clausing because wicks in my 6" project lathe looked suspect. Others on web have used shoelaces. I don't think it much matters as long as wick is present to store oil and filter out dirt. I suppose material from an old under shirt would work as well. My understanding is a wick serves to allow oil to slowly drip on bearings rather than run right on thru. Wicks also serve to keep dirt from getting to bearings with oil. The idea is an old one and seems to meet the need. << The wick is not real critical on the roller bearing lathes. As long as the shields trap a little puddle of oil in the bearing, you just need to replenish the supply every day or so. It would work fine without the wick. Since some of the shields are pretty beat up, they may drain out quickly, and there the wick may be helpful. On Babbit bearings, the wick is VERY important, as the babbit bearings need a flow of oil to assure the journal is always wetted with a film of oil. If the film fails for even a second, bad news! The rollers and cage of the Timken bearings have a lot of little crevices to store oil, but the interior of the babbit bearing has none! Jon ------- Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:44:21 -0700 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: lubricants, belts & pulleys A good lubricant for gears is the motorcycle chain lube. The stuff does a good job of lubrication and doesn't fling off like other oils do. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay ------- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:15:03 EDT From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: (unknown) 6/9/2002 redwitch1x~xxearthlink.net writes: > My current problem is the manual says to use SAE #10 The heavy 3 in 1 oil is about SAE 10. You do want to use non degergent oils because the degtergent oils are made to keep the crud in suspension so it can be removed as your car's oil pump forces the oil through the oil filter. On our bearings we are better off to let the crud lie and not circulate it since we don't have oil filters on our lathes. I would go with a 20 weight if I could not find 10 weight and your chances of finding a non-degergent oil may be better at a drug store (cheap oil) than an auto supply place. John Meacham California High Desert ------- Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 23:24:01 -0500 From: "Richard Meredith" Subject: Re: (unknown) Almost all farm supply stores and many garden centers carry the non-detergent oils in 10, 20, 30, and 40 weight. This is the specified oils for most of the smaller air cooled engines with splash lube systems. The light grades are for cold weather use such as snow blowers, so may not be stocked in the south. Sincerely, Rich ------- Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:44:14 -0400 From: "Bill Hardin" Subject: Gear Repack In finalizing a recent rebuild of a Craftsman 109, not able to readily put my hands on a container of "wheel bearing grease" that was around the shop somewhere, I bought a can of White Lithium Grease at the local Home Depot - the only grease they sold. I used it to re-pack the back gears. The container stated "for general automotive and industrial use", so it seemed appropriate. Big mistake. The unsealed gap between the pulley and back gear housing allowed the white mess to be distributed all over the table, belt, motor and surrounding area. So, before I go looking for the old familiar grease can, clean out the white goo, and start over, is there a difference in grades of this stuff? Is there a recommended grease to pack the back gear for this lathe? They didn't teach us electronics guys about grease. Thanks for any help or recommendations. Bill Sterling, VA ------- Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:02:26 -0500 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Gear Repack I think "packing" is not called for. Way too much grease is a big issue, as you found out. If you use direct (non-back gear), out it will come and as you found out, showers everything with a mess. I would apply a smear of good grease, like the lithium pressure grease to the teeth, and oil the bearings. You only need grease on the contact faces. Anywhere else is no help. Jerry PS, I am an "electronics guy" too.....currently SMPS and Class D audio work. Learn lots of "out of specialty" stuff, it makes you more valuable. I have done such odd things as a study of our packing material, as well as regular work. You never know. ------- Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:57:44 -0400 From: "Kenneth Mayer" Subject: Subject: Gear Repack For open gears, use only Open Gear Lube. MSC carries ~3 brands. It comes in a rattle can. After you clean up the mess, wash off all the old grease. Spray on a little Open Gear Lube while the gears are running. Use only enough to quiet the gears. Any more than that will cause it sling off. The lube is an asphalt-based material. There's also a synthetic version available. White lithium grease is used for assembly and for low speed moving parts. Ken :-) ------- Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:12:48 -0500 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Subject: Gear Repack Ken: BTW, these are really rather low speed gears, as they are a sun and planet speed reducer, and all the gears are enclosed in the outer ring gear. I never saw any slinging when regular bearing grease was put on in reasonable quantities. It "slings" to the ring gear, and is then returned to the sun gear as the planet gears turn. Your suggestion is very good for many open gears. However, these don't need specialized material. His slinging problem was due to "packing" the gear case (ring gear) with grease. The excess (probably 95% of what was in there) would then flow and sling out thru an annular gap. Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:57:53 EDT From: toolroomtrusteex~xxaol.com Subject: Shaper oils My Atlas 7" shaper manual specified 20 weight and 10 weight oil. I found the 20 weight at a NAPA autoparts place but for the 10 wt I had to go to a local Shell distributor, he was kind enough to sell me a quart from a 5 gallon can that had a little left in it. Larry Murray ------- Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:16:06 +1200 From: Tom Subject: Re: Automatic Oil Accessory? jrw wrote: >> Art: I wonder about the chain saw oil for critical way lube service. The way lubes are compounded to reduce the 'stick-slip' characteristics of lube oil. Spend a few bucks and buy a gallon of the right "stuff". Joe << The best "way oil" is Mobil Vactra No. 2, all others just aren't in the hunt. I've even had other oil company reps admit it, too. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:55:46 -0500 From: "David Booth" Subject: Re: New member [KROIL PENETRATING OIL] I have a spray can of this that my brother gave me for Christmas about five years ago. I didn't know it was readily available in the retail market, so I've been very sparing in my use of it (using it only as a last resort, etc.) Now that I know I can get more when this can runs out, I'll move it to the front of my oil shelf! You are correct about Kroil being good stuff. It seems to work when no other penetrating oil will. I last used it to remove the axle nut on the rear of a 1967 VW dropgate pickup truck. After letting Kroil soak in overnight, the nut came off without resorting to using a torch. For those of you unfamiliar with the older VW, perhaps a bit of explanation is in order. The alxe nut is BIG - I forget the metric size, but I use a big english (greater than 1-1/8") six point socket. The torque spec for this nut is 21 kg-M (150 ft-lb). The only reason to remove it is to replace brake shoes, or to do major work on the reducing gear or axle shaft. Needless to say, it rarely is loosened and is usually rusted in place. Usually, getting it off involves a welding torch to heat it up to a dull red, and a six-foot length of pipe on the wrench handle. (Wailing on it with a 1/2" drive air wrench at 90 psi has no effect except to deafen the operator.) With Kroil, I was able to get the nut off with just the wrench and pipe. I didn't even have to resort to propping the end of the pipe on the ground and driving the vehicle against it! ------- From: David Booth [mailto:dboothx~xxceiengineering.com] Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:13 AM To: atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] valve grinding attachments As a rule of thumb, I try to avoid using 3 IN 1 oil for anything. I figure it's like "one size fits all clothing" - The statement may be true, but it doesn't fit anything really well. That said, I keep 3 IN 1 on hand for those occasions when everything else in my bag of tricks, (which includes 10W-30, 20W-50, non-detergent 30W, Parrafin-Based 30W, ATF, Nye Clock Oil, Nye Watch Oil, WD-40, Sulphur Pipe Threading Oil, Honing Oil, Air Tool Oil, Brake Assembly Lube, Axle Grease, Anti-Seize, Molylube, Assembly Lube, Glycerine, White Lead, Kerosene, Mineral Oil, Water, Ivory Liquid Soap, Liquid Dishwash Detergent, Crisco, Lard, Vegetable Oil, Lanolin, Boiled or Raw Linseed Oil, High Heat Silicone Grease, Kroil Spray Penetrant, Beeswax, Candlewax, and Spit) is wrong. Mostly I use it for honing plane blades, wood chisels, and my pocket knife. On the other hand, my suspicion is the operative word in the statement "use XYZ for lubrication in the headstock" is lubrication. Even water would probably work if you had a way of getting enough of it into the bearing under enough pressure. I use 10W-30 in the headstock, the countershaft, and the motor because it is cheap, and it is what I happen to have the most of. ------- Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:47:00 -0500 From: Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD Subject: RE: valve grinding attachments I emailed the WD-40 company yesterday about 3 in 1 oil weight. They bought 3 in 1 several years back. Unlike WD-40, 3 in 1 was developed as a lubricant, rust preventer, and cleaner for bicycles in 1894. There are two versions: multipurpose and motor oil - I presume they mean electric. They are non-detergent and neither contains silicone. The multipurpose is 17 wt and the motor oil is 20 wt. Try this link for a little lub humor. http://www.octanecreative.com/WD40/#anchor2579647 Rene N. Chabannes (Titan) ASC/YC - Productions Operations C-17 SPO, WPAFB, OH 937-255-1042 (DSN 785-1042) ------- Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:08:28 -0800 From: Subject: Lube Info For the matter of Lubrication of Lathe Ways & Gibs... I personally use Hangsterfers Labs "Way Oil", purchased in 5 gal. bucket Hangsterfers offers the individual some good specifications on each of their products. Their products are at http://www.hangsterfers.com Check out all the links on the left of the page! In Washington State I know of at least one distributor.. but there are tons of others. If anyone wants more information, I can provide help with most of their products.They have all the MSDS and are fully ISO 9001 compliant. Their Tech support is wonderful, even with their phone staff. Emails and phone calls are returned promptly within a max of 8 hours but always within 24 hrs. except when thier office is closed. Their address is: 175 Ogden Rd. Mantua, NJ 08051 856-468-0216 Ph 856-468-0200 Fax Thanks Greg Bowne Seattle, WA ------- Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 08:43:40 -0500 From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: real newbe [CUTTING FLUID FOR ALUMINUM] WD40 is good for short-term uses like this, but heed the wipe up warning; it's hydroscopic (drawns moisture out of the air, like DOT 3 brake fluid). Don't leave it on long term or it can cause things to rust. I cut aluminum dry most of the time, but if I need cutting oil, I'm with Orrin; use kerosene. I've used a commercial product called Tap Magic for some of the 'stickier' materials like soft aluminum and copper, but it smells bad to me and it ain't cheap. Word of warning - Never ever use volatile fluids like gasoline. Maybe grandpa did it, but ask him why he's missing all those front teeth. Jim Ash ------- Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 21:23:57 -0800 From: "Orrin B. Iseminger" Subject: Re: real newbe I use kerosene for aluminum. If a bit gets splattered about, no problem. It will evaporate, slowly. Orrin ------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:47:06 -0800 From: John Sandhagen Subject: Re: Fingerprints on expensive instruments( was safety) >While we're on the subject of fingerprints on steel, I have a new >problem with measuring instruments. When I started doing machining >work in my early thirties, i worked with a guy who smoked heavily, and >he had highly acidic sweat, so guess who got to do most of the >measuring? Fortunately, most of our work was in plastic, so only >things like steel machinists squares and rulers would be affected. I >had no trouble with this, and left no etched fingerprints on anything. >After a break of a few years, I'm back machining and now have a >101.07403 lathe, I'm finding my rust marks on squares, rulers, even >the castiron top to my 1966 Delta table saw. At present I'm cleaning >it off as fast as it occurrs, and wax on the saw table helps, but I >don't want to start waxing squares and such. Does any one else have >this problem, and if so can anything be done about it? I live in Los >Angeles, so the air is normally pretty dry here, no rust caused by >humidity.Now i'm in my early fifties, I suppose some metabolic changes >have occurred to cause this, but i'm willing to change my diet if it'll >help. I heard that Brownells used to carry something for this, but no >longer do. (I can imagine you guys in humid places are saying, "only >rust on a few squares, what's the big deal!" :) >TIA Richard Medway in Los Angeles I have repair band instruments and have found many things contribute to the body chemistries ability to etch metal. Highly acidic diet, coffee, hot sauce (all my favorites). Also calm or agitated. Also make-up of drinking water. The only food I know of that is alkali (to counteract acid) is pears. You inherit much of this also, but that you can't change. My hands turn silver flutes black, have eaten thru my trombone twice and kill digital watches in six days. I live with it, calling it a patina. I use a digital caliper (plastic), use stainless steel tools where necessary. Oh well, John Sandhagen the Boneyard 524 E Bishop Pl. Claremont, CA 91711 1-909-869-3550 1-909-626-2796 ------- Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 13:19:05 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Fingerprints on expensive instruments( was safety) Well, I use LPS #1 as an anti-rust compound. I don't have the problem from sweat, skin oilor whatever. But, I do have to protect stuff from coolant, or just water getting where it shouldn't. (My shop is below the kitchen and a half-bath, and I've had water come through the ceiling several times. That dirty water is 10 X more corrosive, it seems!) But, if I can get the LPS #1 on it fast enough, there's no problem. Jon ------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:09:39 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: Fingerprints on expensive instruments( was safety) I have found that WD40 leaves a "varnish" on tools that seems to resist rust. This is an interesting phenomenon. I have seen kids who will leave rusty fingerprints on anything, and old geezers like me, who have no trouble at all. Doubt if if it's age related, but I will bet that diet has a lot to do with it. Mert ------- Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:06:14 -0000 From: "brewerpaul " Subject: Teflon lube for lathe? I just bought some Teflon lube, and was wondering if it would be good on my 6" Atlas. I use the lathe for woodworking, and oil on the ways, lead screw, etc, accumulates a LOT of dust and debris. This Teflon stuff is not gummy and should gather a lot less crud. It comes in a little squeeze bottle and is very handy to use too. ------- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:13:04 -0600 From: "Microsoft mail Server" Subject: Re: Teflon lube for lathe? Be careful with Teflon lube on your lathe. It is not for use on sliding sufaces of the bedways. Use "way lubricant" or "way oil" instead. The Teflon can make things too slippery and cause the carriage to become hard to stop when threading or using power feed. This could cause a destructive crash of carriage into the headstock. You can try Teflon on the sliding surfaces of the compound, which do not have power feed, but way lube is a better choice. You can try Teflon on the lead screw and half nuts and carriage gears. But do a stopping test of carriage movement first to see if carriage stopping distance increases from Teflon. If so, use more conventional lubricant like "open gear" lube in a spray can. This usually is a form of molybdenum disulfide grease. Rethink using the lathe for woodturning. Try to get rubberized accordion folded covers for the bed area to keep off wood dust and chips. Look for "Gortite" brand bellows and covers from A&A Mfg. This is a robot/CNC accessory that must be custom made, but will save a lot of cleaning time and protect the lathe. Cost varies,but $100 to $200 quote is the price range for a small lathe like the Atlas 6 inch. HTH. James ------- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:12:33 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Teflon lube for lathe? Teflon is made with Fluorine. It is a pretty stable product, but, I have a vague recollection it does breakdown when exposed to flame or an electrical arc. The breakdown products are as I recall either hydrofluoric acid or free fluorine both potentially troublesome and toxic. Not recommended to use teflon o rings in live steam engine models. louis ------- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:46:02 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Teflon lube for lathe? > both potentially troublesome and toxic. Not recommended to use > teflon o rings in live steam engine models. There is teflon and teflon. Remember, what is on your fry pan is a teflon material, so steam unless highly superheated and under high pressure will not be a problem. But I don't think it meets the requirements for waylube. There are probably places for it, but unless applied in sheets as the way-refurb material is, I doubt you would want to use it. And with the sheet material, oil is still used. Everything has its best uses. Jerrold ------- Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:20:20 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Teflon lube for lathe? For piston rings and valve seals, teflon is quite adequate for the material to use. Remember that it takes some real heat to get the teflon to start separating and a little live steam isn't going to be doing anything to the stuff. The temp required is well beyond the temp that the stuff melts at and if you don't even get close to that, why worry about flourine and so forth coming off of it. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:12:19 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Atlas Lathe bearing oil Col. Zach Northway wrote: >What is the best oil(s) to use for my Atlas lathe main bearings. >(They are timkin [spelling?] bearings) My manual for the Craftsman 101.28900 and 101.28910 lathes says use SAE # 20 oil in the headstock (with Timken bearings). >And what should I use for oiling the ways, the back gears and any other >parts that need oil? Ways should use way oil, contrary to the manual. This can also be used in the leadscrews. Way oil will stay put on the ways, and provides lubrication long after plain oils have filmed off to the chip pan. The gears should use an open gear grease, Keystone #122 is listed in the manual, but every company has a similar lube, designed to stay on the gears in open gear trains. Jon ------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:42:06 -0500 From: Ron Fitzpatrick Subject: Way lubes Can't help but put my two cents worth on this very intriguing subject.I am a machinist by trade working at Stelco Steel located in Hamilton Ontario Canada for the last 28 years. In our machine shop (roughly the size of two Canadian sized football fields with over 200 N.C. and conventional machines) we use a light weight oil ( Harmony 100 ) spread on the ways of conventional machines by hand with a oil can at the start and finish of each shift. Remember that it is of utmost importance to thoroughly wipe down your machine each time you finish using it and apply a new coat of oil on the ways and you should have no wear issues. A properly machined and oiled machine actually rides on a micro film of oil not on metal to metal. Our Numerically Controlled machines have an automatic way lube system which lubes the ways according to a specified time interval but the oil we use in these applications (Tonna 220 or Tonna 68) is a much heavier oil more along the cosistancy of a Light Gear oil or a good cough syrup. Many of these machines have way surfaces not on the flat but on the vetical and horizontal planes. Also it might be noted that when I served my apprenticeship if you were caught filing on a lathe without some sort of protection covering the ways, be it paper or a rag etc. that would be grounds for disciplinary action. There is NOTHING harder on Lathe ways than the small particles being ground in from filing. ------- Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:17:59 -0000 From: "speedphoto300 " Subject: Re: Way lubes Flame away, but for years I've used a 50-50 mix of 40 weight motor oil and STP, a trip to the store and I have 2 quarts for less than 5 bucks. Haven't had a wear problem, either. Joe ------- Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:36:39 -0600 From: "M K (Skip) Campbell Jr." Subject: Re: Re: Way lubes Someone who is savvy about way oil and the stick/slip phenomenon should address this. I know enough to know that you can tighten the gibs tighter and still get smoother operation with way oil than with any other type oil. That is what it is designed for. That's about all I know about it. Skip Campbell Ft. Worth, Texas ------- Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 22:18:22 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Re: Way lubes > Minimum size 1 gallon sounds like a lifetime supply for me. Louis You might be surprised, ways need wiping and oiling pretty regularly to clear off crud. It works great on other similar applications like lead screws/halfnuts and so forth too. Works on Mills, lathes, shapers, and planers if you have one. Jerrold ------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 04:21:26 -0000 From: "patmack_1 " Subject: Re:oil question Leo, I have used 10W30 on all bearing surfaces and way oil on the ways of my Craftsman 6" for years with no problem. I got some gear lube from a machinery repair shop that made the gear train very quiet--very little needed. ------- Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:48:10 -0000 From: "Thomas E. Jones " Subject: Oil, Grease, Teflon Grease on Tools... Hello: The latest sherline mill and lathe instructions describe Teflon grease, which Sherline has recently begun using in their own shop, and which they pre-grease all of their lathe and mills prior to leaving the factory. They then say they "strongly recommend it." This seems to be contrary to their prior recommendations: the machines ship with thick grease so it stays on, but then the customer uses light oil (sewing machine oil) during regular use. I've been using this Teflon for about a year, and I'm not entirely happy with it. The parts seem to slide well, but chips and dust stick in this thicker grease too easy, and it's hard to clean off my machines. I wonder if this higher viscosity grease makes machine stiffer, but maybe the Teflon properties makes sliding even easier than light oil. Has anyone used both, and have any comments. I'm thinking about going back to light oil, but don't know. tj. ------- Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:26:04 -0000 From: "ptlarry2003 " Subject: Re: Oil, Grease, Teflon Grease on Tools... Instead of using light oil, I use Super-Lube Synthetic Lubricant which is made by the same company as the grease. I find that after using the lubricant it leaves a thin film over the machine which will allow clean up to be fast as metal chips will not stick to the PTFP base oil. I live on the east coast and found Lowes has it or you can go to www.super-lube.com to order it. Larry M. ------- Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:23:39 EST From: joeb759x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Oil, Grease, Teflon Grease on Tools... Larry: Is this the super lube that you spray on? If so, you are correct regarding the dryness of the product after application. I use both the spray and the grease depending on where I need to apply it. I purchased mine in a local hobby shop but if i'm not mistaken, I also seen it listed in MSC's big book. Joe Baker Brookfield Ct. [Yes it is, I use try DRI-LUBE instead of the grease which is also made by them. Larry M.] ------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:43:39 -0800 (PST) From: Pete Brown Subject: Another question : Waxing (was Re: Re: Finally got my SHERLINE mill today) Thanks for the info. On my wood tools (my drill press with cast iron table, for example) I wax the surfaces with a paste wax. It helps the wood move more easily, and also helps provide some protection against rust. I suspect I don't need to do that with the mill/lathe surfaces, but I thought I'd ask here to make sure. So, do any of you folks put anything (such as wax) on your mill/lathe surfaces to protect them? Pete ------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:56:36 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Another question : Waxing (was Re: Re: Finally got my mill today) I use a product called "Marvel Mystery Oil". It's an oil additive that has rust inhibitors. Some more info can be found here: http://www.foximas.com/auto/marvel-mystery-oil--16-oz.htm I buy it from my local Canadian Tire Store. I use it on all of the steel parts, like the 3/4 jaw chucks, end mill holders, etc. I also use it my ways. I have a couple of old rags I use just for putting some oil on and then wiping the parts with. The anodized aluminum parts don't really need anything. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:03:35 -0000 From: "buchnerb " Subject: Another question : Waxing (was Re: Re: Finally got my mill today) I've only had my Sherline equipment for a little over a year and am a newbie but I wouldn't wax any of the table surfaces. With your wood working tools you want to be able to move the wood. With metal working tools your work must be securely clamped down to the table before touching it with a tool or you or your work could be hurt. The tables are made of anodized aluminium and will not rust. Follow the lubrication guidance that came with your machines and keep the lead screws and ways lubricated. I use "Break Free" gun lubricant on mine and it works great. Spindle bearings are sealed and do not require lubrication. I'm sure many of the group members who have had their equipment for long periods can give more tips. Bruce Buchner ------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:49:23 +0000 From: Brian Squibb Subject: Re: gear grease 27/03/2003 -0600, you wrote: >> The "Manual of Lathe Operation" that came with each lathe when new states both types of lubricant. Oil , (S.A.E. 20 wt. machine oil) where the gears run on the shafts and grease, (Lubriplate Heavy Duty Gear Shield is one type that can be substituted) where the gears run tooth on tooth. << If the manual was re-written now some 60 years on it would be talking about 20/50 and moly grease - neither of these were around in the 1940's. Dont use any other grease than moly, which is THE grease for gears and slow moving CV joints. Brian ------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:23:32 -0800 From: "Rolynn Prechtl K7DFW" Subject: Re: gear grease > I would use LM grease in the headstock bearings LM grease = Lithium-Moly Grease Moly grease = Lithium based grease containing molybdenum disulphide We are speaking of the same thing. Rolynn ------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 00:19:25 +0000 From: Brian Squibb Subject: Re: gear grease Ah - UK/USA difference - LM grease is high melting point. Moly is low melting point. Brian ------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 23:19:59 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Digest Number 1415 For ways there is Way Oil and for the various oil holes use the cheap 20 weight non-degergent oil from an auto supply place. I am of two thoughts about gear lube. Some say grease will allow chips and junk to stick to the gears (they must throw even more swarf than I do) so recommend oil. Lately I have been spraying with one of those teflon dry lubes, goes on wet but drys to leave a thin coat of a dry lube on the gear teeth. Remember too some oil holes on the Atlas are not visible, there is one in the head stock pulley cluster down in the bottom of one of the pulleys, it is hidden under a setscrew, but it is important when using back gear when the pulley cluster rotates on the spindle. I would sure recomend getting a manual from Clausing I know those are available, but don't know about the Clausing. ------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:43:19 +0000 From: Brian Squibb Subject: Re: gear grease I think I would avoid grease on the bed as it might turn into grinding paste. Brian ------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:06:31 -0500 From: jrw Subject: Re: Re: German A.H.E - update [SHAPER] Forget the standard automotive engine lubes for shapers, lathes and mills. Quality lube oils are not much different in acquisition cost. The automotive lubes are compounded to keep the products of combustion particulate matter in suspension and counteract acids formed during the alternate hot and cold cycles. The hydraulic types are set up with corrosion inhibitors while the Way oils have additives to reduce the "stick-slip" characteristic of sliding surfaces and can maintain a good oil film with the heavy slow motion loads. If you had a good filter it would help with any lube. Joe ------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 03:16:04 -0000 From: "kndroy" Subject: 7" Shaper grease I searched the archives for 'shaper grease' and got nothing back so I will ask the group. What should I repack the Timken bearings in my Atlas 7" shaper with? I have a tub of Shell Alvania Grease II that I put in my lathe's bearings with a needle tip on my grease gun. I also have moly grease for my car's wheel bearings. I just follow the manuals and don't know exactly why one is better than the other. Thanks for the help. Dave ------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:27:22 +0100 From: Brian Squibb Subject: Re: 7" Shaper grease I use moly grease that is used for the wheel bearings on my 10F. IMHO if no swarf can get in the bearings then this is the best way to go. This is the high melting point variety of moly grease. The other moly grease is the high pressure stuff that is ideal for the gears. Brian ------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 00:50:11 -0500 From: "Randy Pedersen" Subject: Re: Change gear lubrication? This is what I have found for change over from the old lubes to what is available today. Hope this is what you need Randy Pedersen Salina, Ks Atlas 618 South Bend 1946 9" A, 1938 9" C Enco 1105 Mill Drill Machining Lubes: =========== Spindle Oils Mobil DTE 26 Product Code: 602645 ISO VG68 Mobil Velocite No. 10 =========== Way Oil Mobil Vactra #2 =========== Change Gear Lube Lubriplate www.lubriplate.com Heavy Duty Gear Shield SPRAY CAN-----#L0152-0063 TUBE (CAULKING TYPE)-----L0152-000 Keystone Lube www.keystonelurbicants.com Keystone Moly-29 Mobil www.mobil.com Mobil tach 375-NC Exxon www.exxon.com dynagear spray ------- Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 07:07:12 -0000 From: "bschwand" Subject: Re: Two Questions In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, Don Rogers wrote: > As I am somewhat new to the group, these questions may have been > answered before. First. What coolant do you use, and what schemes >are in use to keep it contained and routed back to the reservoir? I use LPS natural http://www.lpslabs.com/Products/CuttingFluids/Nat_Gold.asp#Product1Code as cutting fluid. I guess I do not use enough to qualify as coolant, so there is no need for a return path. Just a few squirts from time to time. Works great for me. Among the advantages I found compared to most cutting/lubricating fluids available: - biodegradable - contains no harmful chemicals - does not smell bad - available in less than 5 gallon jugs :-) - reasonable price (i pint is ~$6 at use-enco.com) - the pint-size bottle shape and nozzle allows to squirt directly on the area to lubricate usual disclaimer: I am not affiliated in any way with this product or its manufacturer. bruno ------- Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:14:27 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Sherline lubricant Since everyone else has shared there experience I share mine. I have used my lathe and mill at least two hours a day for the last ten or twelve years. During that time after every other use, I have sprayed the lead screws with Justice Brothers spray grease. ( They sell to auto repair shops) The grease stays put and seems to constantly form a grease seal around the lead screw nuts. I have never had a chip problem with this grease. In fact I am still using the original lead screws and nuts. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 23:51:11 -0500 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Lubrication [atlas_craftsman] >How religously does the lubrication schedual need to be adhered to? >Typically, I'm using my late model 12" w/timkens for quick fix up >jobs or projects around the house maybe two or three times a week. >The average run time <1/2 hour, sometimes 5 minutes.Every couple of >weeks or so I do a thorough cleaning and complete daily / weekly / >monthly lubrication.I always visually inspect headstock and drive >gears for oil/grease films. Would it be advised to go through the >daily lube regimen for 5-10 minute light duty job? I ALWAYS lube those parts of the machine that I will use, EVERY time I use it. I think the Timken bearings hold oil in them for quite a while, but I don't know for sure. I assume everything else loses most of its oil film over 24 hours or so. I especially clean and lube the bed and cross- slide every time I use it. I admit I don't lube every oil hole in the apron unless I'm doing a long job. I don't do anything on the main leadscrew unless I will use it, and I don't always oil the cross-slide and compound screws and nuts. There are even some "secret" lube points, like the Craftsman 12" back gear shaft, that you have to pull out a round cover to get at, or the countershaft that has an oil cup in the middle, between the two pulleys. There's also an oil hole for the 4-step pulley in the bottom of one of the pulley holes. That is needed only when using the back gear. But, I really try to lube it properly, as I'm sure that not taking the time to properly lube a machine is one of the surest ways to wreck it, although a bit slowly. Remember that NOTHING on these lathes is hardened. Jon ------- Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:36:34 -0500 From: "Al Lenz" Subject: RE: Help With Various Stuck Stuff! [sherline group] Bob: This may not help at the moment, but there is a product called 'Aero Kroil' that is absolutely the darndest penetrating oil that you can imagine. I just used it on an exhaust system that hadn't been disturbed in ten years and after a light tap with a wrench, the nuts came off by hand and they were WELL rusted in place. This stuff is in an entirely different league from liquid wrench and the other penetrating oils. And no, I have no connection with the product, but found out about it from one of the forums that I belong to. It is an industrial product and not found on the shelf. http://www.kanolabs.com/ Al Lenz PS If you get a can and don't like it I will buy it from you. I'm about out! ------- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:27:10 -0000 From: "cush66" Subject: Re: Help With Various Stuck Stuff! I will second that about Kroil being good stuff! I use it also to clean rifle and handgun bores but not all the time. You have to be careful if you use it as a general purpose lubricant because it creeps into everything and everywhere which is not good for some things. ------- Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:19:33 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: steel protection from rusting I've used Boeshield to protect steel. It's a dry lube that leaves a waxy residue once it dries. You'd have to get all of it off if you did decide to paint the parts, but it'd protect them until you decide what you want to do. If it's any indicator for how well this works, when I packed up my shop to move, I sprayed down all my tools with Boeshield. My shaper, which is in the middle of a restoration project, had lots of bare cast iron that was being re-scraped (= rust prone). After packing up my shop, everything was trucked to California right around the time of the dock worker's strike. I was told some of my crates wound up out on the docks for over a month. After they did get shipped out here, they were put into storage right before the winter storms hit (winter here is wet, not necessarily cold). By the time I got to unpack, most of my tools had been in 50-75% humidity for almost six months. When I unpacked my shaper, I expected to see a mass of rust and pitting. I was happily disappointed. Not one spot of rust on a single tool. No, I don't work for Boeing (the folks who make Boeshield). I've just had my tools saved by it, and I'm a happy repeat customer. Tom ------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:29:55 -0700 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: steel protection from rusting Folks: While I haven't tested BoeShield nearly as thoroughly as Tom has, I can also recommend it. I'm using it on my ShopSmith and other wood- working tools and it has done a really good job of preventing any rust. One thing - if you use it with woodworking tools, let it dry, then buff the residue off until it no longer has that 'tacky' feel; otherwise, Boeshield acts as a really good sawdust magnet. Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 02:52:25 -0000 From: "al_messer" Subject: Cutting lubricate I've been using some Rigid Brand Dark Threading Compound when cutting steel on my shaper and it seems to do very well, What do others of you use? ------- Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 04:29:51 -0000 From: "dreilanderecht" Subject: Re: Cutting lubricate For steel I usually drip on a bit of ordinary soluble oil, which is diluted with water by guesstimate to about one tenth oil. This is as much a coolant as a lubricant, and indeed I really wonder how much lubrication can actually occur where it is really needed...how does oil get into the place where the edge is cutting, since it is deep within the steel? I think threading compound on taps/dies is a bit different since it also helps lubricate the tap against the already cut thread, and there is time at the slow speed for capillary action to carry some into the narrow gaps too. It certainly helps prevent breaking them. I really wonder if any useful "lubrication" takes place at lathe, shaper, and mill cutting speeds. But on the other hand, anything that helps cool the job and the tool will reduce the temperature at the cutting edge, even if it never penetrates in to the actual point. If the tool is being pushed towards its temperature limit, as would be the case in production work, then cooling will let you run it that little bit faster before disaster occurs. Since the edge going soft is a change of state, a relatively small increase in temperature could be the difference between the tool going blunt and lasting well. regards John ------- From: n8as1x~xxa... Date: Fri Sep 5, 2003 6:23 pm Subject: Re: [Metal_Shapers] Re: Cutting lubricate al......i have abt 4 coffeecans of lard in the freezer ( hog killing time ,2 yrs ago) & find that it DOES make a difference in finish cuts on both lathe & shaper ....(only for finish cuts on shaper, otherwise work dry.)...bacon grease works as well , but neither ,i think any better than the dark rigid oil i have used ,just cheaper ( caution , bird dogs try to eat cuttings !) .........OLD/ dirtier the better, tractor/truck engine oil is used for lathe coolant /cutting , also worked great cutting a set of gears on little horiz. mill .......waiting for a chemist /engineer to tell me why DIRTY oil works better than clean (maybe sulfur in it ) , but it does cut better .... ....lard is GREAT for tapping as well as crisco...... used it 50 yrs ago for tapping hardened rifle receivers.... ( pulls chips out of blind holes ,x/cept in summer( runs ) ......think the earliest lubes used were tallow ( beef fat rendered out)...& other animal oils......... i reckon ,since osha pulled the "dangerous" commercial products , they had to go back to animal /synthetic oils) .............oh yeah , price is right !!!!... ....take ur pick ....dirty stained hands or odorous ones! best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:34:52 -0400 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Way Lube and Cutting Oil for 6" Craftsman Lathe [NOTE: AND FOR OTHER MACHINES] > Simple questions about way lube and cutting oil: What kind? How > thick? How much? Where from? Easy answers: Mobil Vactra #2 Way Oil, around $10 a gallon from Enco. I keep it in a pump oil can so I can use it on the oil fittings on my mill also. Just a squirt on the ways and run the carriage over it. After work I usually clean off any swarf, put a good dollop on the ways towards the tailstock and run the carriage away from the headstock. Clen up the ways again, and repeat with the oil going on the headstock side of the carriage. Spreads it out and runs bits of stuff to each end of the bed for easy clean off. You can brush it on if you prefer. Way oil goes only on the ways, not on gears or in the apron! Cutting oils: Wide open! Kerosene or WD40 for aluminum. Cutting / threading oil for steel. I use Mitee brand, as it's sold in gallons at my local hardware store. I often thin it 50-50 with kerosene. No lube for cast iron or brass. Butter or half and half for copper (messy, works.) Tapmajic, Cool Tool II, soluble oils, all sorts of options. For most of my work kero or plain old cutting oil works well. I do use tapmajic for threading aluminum. Usually I apply with a flux brush. I buy them in boxes or either 100 or a gross for under $20. I also keep kerosene in a nalgene wash bottle for use when boring deep into aluminum, you can flush out swarf with a squirt. Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:47:17 -0700 From: "Gregory Bowne" Subject: Re: Way Lube and Cutting Oil for 6" Craftsman Lathe Hangsterfers Labs Way Oil #2 Hangsterfers Labs Crystal Cut 322 Lindsay Industrial Tool, Inc. 619 8th Ave. South Seattle, WA 98104 1(206)622-6720 Webpage: www.hangsterfers.com Cutting Oils: http://www.hangsterfers.com/cutting_oils.asp Coolant: http://www.hangsterfers.com/coolant_concentrate.asp Thanks, Greg Bowne ------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:51:15 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Way Lube and Cutting Oil for 6" Craftsman Lathe For the lathe itself, I use Mobil Vactra #2 Way oil, Mobil Velocite #10 spindle oil, and Lubriplate Heavy Duty Gear Shield for the open gears. The mobil oils are available in gallons from Enco, MSC etc. A gallon will last a lifetime, I'm sure. The Lubriplate is available from MSC. I got the tube and use a caulking gun. There is also a spray version. Cool Tool II for cutting oil. -Bruno ------- Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:22:38 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: Cutting oil It seems that the threads regarding cutting oils generate a lot of discussion. I've seen that both here and in other forums. I've also seen a lot of home-brew and "old-time" recipes and checked out some so-called commercial products. In a lot of these it seems that mineral oil is used as the base mixed with other additives. Just for grins I decided to dispense with the additives and try plain mineral oil. For what its worth, I can't see that its any less effective than the commercial products and its a whole lot less expensive. Any comments or suggestions here? Jim Knighton ------- Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:44:19 -0700 From: k6sufx~xxdirecway.com Subject: Re: Re: Cutting oil I have some of the commercial cutting oil that you mix with water, bought it along with my way oil, but never used it. Had lots of good results with plain hardware sulphurized pipe threading oil and also with Shell, Fire and Ice or Mobil 1. The synthetic motor oils are formulated to stay on the surface when the heat builds up and do tend to stay with the cut and not flow away. Cutting oils provide two things, make a lube layer between tool and work and cool the tool. Again I emphasise that there is a big difference between making 100,000 identical parts for every Toyota on the road and our hobby where we may never make the same part more than two times or so. ------- Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:42:25 -0500 (EST) From: otisnwoox~xxcavtel.net Subject: Re: Re: What oil for rust prevention? >I just rehabbed a 1950's era Webster-Whitcomb jewelers lathe and >wanted to protect the 6-way jaw and 50 + collets and other accessories Evidently there aren't many firearms enthusiasts among you at this forum. The gun manufacturers have had to contend with the rust problem for a very long time and they have become quite good at it.Carbon steel based firearms (as opposed to stainless firearms) are usually shipped with a piece of special paper in the box which is called "vapor phase inhibitor paper", and this paper contains a chemical compound (petroleum based, I believe) that gives off vapors that prevent rust from forming on iron or steel if the metal to be protected is enclosed (as in a box or plastic bag) and kept from the surrounding atmosphere. Brownell's sells "rust blox" which incorporate this technology, as well as a rust preventive oil called "rust preventive #2" which costs $17.82 for a pint but is well worth it. I have been using this product for years to wipe down my lathes and other tools after use and have no problem with rust on my machinery, even though the machines are in my very damp basement and would otherwise rust quickly. I keep the machines covered with plastic sheeting following an application of this oil and this keeps the protective vapor around the machine. HTH. Curtis ------- Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:56:09 -0500 From: Gord and Doreen Smith Subject: Lube for Aluminum Cutting Hi All, when I had some difficulty cutting, drilling and tapping some Al. bases my local machinist (has his own fabricating company) advised liquid soap as the best lubricant. Tried it - completely successful even though I had to rig a catch basin so the soap would not get thrown everywhere. I tried diluting it --bad decision -- just made it easier to throw around the shop. Gordo Canada ------- Subject: Re: Raising an Etch [oldtools list] From: John Lederer Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:03:07 -0600 Jerry Palmer wrote: >I cleaned the vinegar off real good and put a light coat of linseed oil >on as I was fresh out of WD-40 and gotta coat em with somethin. That >brings up the question of, What sort of oil etc to put on blades to keep >the rust from comin back. We're headin into the rainy springtime and ... I have been conducting experiments on rust in my workshed [hand tools] So far the winners are: 1. "Fogging oil" wiped on with a rag. This is an oil with high coating and durability used in engines that will be stored for protracted times. The Borg has sray cans of it. I begged a pint from a racing shop nearby that had a 5 gallon can of the stuff. 2. "Custom blend #3" By approx volume: 8 parts beeswax, 2 parts carnauba, 2 parts orange oil, 2 parts air tool oil, 2-3 parts turpentine. In the winter (unheated) shop I pour a little additonal turp on the top of the mixture -- which gives me a soft layer on top. Wd40 was not particularly good -- the protection was lost unless you really glopped it on in which case you ended up with a sticky dirt attracting coating (WD40 seems to have a lot of volatile solvent that evaporates with time). I warm the tool when temps are low before applying the custom blend with a rag. The Custom Blend #3 can clean a bit as well as preserve and I also use it on wood, though I use a different blend on all wood things. Others tried: Marvel Mystery Oil Motor Oil Lithium "white" grease Three or four custom blends Several brand name rust protectants John Lederer ------- NOTE TO FILE: The prior message used the term "BORG" which is a Galoot nickname for that popular hardware retailer also known as Home Despot. BORG stands for "Big Orange Retail Giant" -- assimilates smaller retail stores and resistance is futile. ------- Subject: Re: Wax recommendation From: "Daniel E.L. Yurwit" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:11:20 -0500 Mike requested recommendations for >>a good choice for all around shop wax? I hate the smell of the Minwax. << Talk about a can of worms (or is that wax?) The only one I've used for years is Butcher's Wax; either their Bowling Alley Wax, which is clear, or their Boston Polish, which has a slight amber tint. A can last a long time, I don't find the smell offensive (but it dissipates quickly anyway,) and I do like the finished appearance, either on raw wood or a variety of finished surfaces. It holds up reasonably well, and is very easily renewed. Even seems to have somewhat of a cleaning effect. (They say is "a mix of carnauba wax, other waxes, turpentine, and mineral spirits.") No affiliation.....and all that blarney. (But I may try to sell this to them as an ad!) Dan, in NJ ------- Subject: RE: Wax recommendation From: "Jon Endres, PE" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:44:19 -0500 Butcher's Paste Wax, made by S C Johnson. Good stuff, non-silicone, use it on cast iron m*ch*n*ry surfaces to prevent rust, as well as general wax use. Jon Endres, PE West Mountain Engineering ------- Subject: Re: Wax recommendation From: "Charlie Driggs" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:29:44 -0500 A bunch of votes for Butcher's Wax. In my case, I primarily use two waxes ... good ol' Johnson's Wax for knobs, handles, tools, etc., primarily because I had one good sized can of it for years and inherited another nearly unused one. Can't beat the price, and it works well. Johnson's is a little softer than Butchers, I think. However, on very nice project surfaces, I switched to Mylands quite a few years ago when it was introduced here. Costs a bit more than Butchers or Briwax, but I like the result better. Also figure if the British monarchy uses it for their modest collection of antique furniture (so Mylands claims) it can't be bad. But for some jobs, such as attempting to impart an aged look, the tinted Briwaxs are the right thing to use. Pick the right wax for the intended use. Just one isn't enough for everything. Charlie Driggs Newark DE ------- Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:51:05 -0000 From: "jjjorg1" Subject: Re: Lubrication In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "carbure2003" wrote: > The lube chart I have stipulates SAE 20 oil in all oil cups. > For gearing, it lists Keystone 122 gear lubricant. (never found any > equivalent) Guy Cadrin Keystone replaced 122 gear lubricant with Moly 29 Open Gear compound. For the bearings, you could use KLC antiwear 68 or similar hydraulic type SAE 20 weight oil. Keystone website is www.keystonelubricants.com. Also, Atlas lubrication info is available at www.atlas-press.com/servicebulletins.htm. Joel. ------- NOTE TO FILE: It got a bit quiet during the summer so Jerry in the Sherline group decided to stir the pot with some positive comments about WD-40. These are the first two messages and show some experience, not just opinion. For more on this thread, see the Sherline group starting 24 June 2004. Your opinion may vary.] ------- Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 02:46:26 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: WD-40 Since this group has been quiet lately it is probably a good time to stir the pot with my favorite WD-40 story. First let me say I have no allegiance to anything unless it will do what I want it to or it makes me look good. ( A rough job to say the least) While working for a local Public Utility for 35 years, I handled large and small machine shop accounts since I was the only one in our company group that at least knew what a machine tool was. During that time it seemed like I was forever running into salesman who wanted our company to use their latest and greatest product. A good percentage of these were metal protective and lubricant spray products. The Up side to all of this was that I got to keep all of the free samples. Thus I have at least one can of everything that I have ever seen for sale in the last 35 years. I think about 30 different brands some no longer in business. When building models I do a lot of bead and sandblasting of the metal parts to clean up silver solder joints and make them appear like castings. The problem is to protect the metal until it is painted witch in my case can be years. Since I constantly work with the parts I do not want a heavy messy coat of anything. I just need a quick spray coat of something at the end of the day that will protect the metal until I work on it again. So awhile back I ask about a dozen or so-called experts (they acted like they were) what the best product would be. I got about two dozen opinions, no two the same except they all said don`t use WD-40. Since I had a can of everything that was suggested I decided to do my own experiment. I blasted a couple of dozen pieces of metal, sprayed each one with a different product and set them outside for a week. I actually got lucky and it rained a couple of times that week. By the middle of the week two thirds of the pieces had a light rust coat on them. By the end of the week only one piece didn`t have rust on it, the piece marked WD-40. Since everybody has always told me never to use WD-40 I thought that was kind of interesting. The other interesting thing was that the WD-40 lable was the only one that didn`t claim to cure everything except marriage problems. Personally I have always found WD-40 to be just as effective as similar more expensive products. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 04:26:04 -0500 From: "Scott Peterson" Subject: Re: WD-40 The first bubble in the pot: The print shop where I worked for five years, before it belly-upped, had its bindery in a non-climate-controlled building for a while when we outgrew our old digs. The place was beastly humid a lot of the time during the summer and the roof leaked over the rearmost part of the cutter I worked on. (not an ideal circumstace by far!) The bed of this machine was of cast iron and about fifty by sixty inches. The rearmost part of the bed saw little action (other than the leaking of the roof) as the paper that we usually cut was a maximum of 30 inches long. That table was "WD'd" religiously every week when the knife was changed. The surface did have a very faint brownish tint to it...but never a hint of rust and the puddled water could just be squeegeed off leaving no ill effect. The "WD" in WD-40 does stand for "Water Displacement", after all. I have a can handy and use it in the same manner as Jerry does. For "pack-it-up-for-eternity" purposes, I tend to use a penetrating "open gear and wire rope lube"...don't touch ANYTHING else before you clean yourself up! A quote from the "WD-40 Fan Club" website... http://fanclub.wd40.com/ (admittedly, a company site) WD-40 literally stands for Water Displacement, 40th attempt. That's the name straight out of the lab book used by the chemist who developed WD-40 back in 1953. The chemist, Norm Larsen, was attempting to concoct a formula to prevent corrosion -- a task which is done by displacing water. Norm's persistence paid off when he perfected the formula on his 40th try. Regards, Scott...Northwoods, Wisconsin ------- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:10:07 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: Re: Lubrication > Get some Vectra or equivilent "way and slide" oil. This oil takes the > grit and dirt and pushes it out. Also, Shell Telus brand hydraulic oil is an *excellent* oil for lathe ways. I've worked in many a machine shop that used it, and it's worked very well in my experience. Paul Anderson ------- Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:51:58 -0800 From: "Hacendado" Subject: Lathe gear lubrication JE Worman wrote about spray gear lubricant: > It's an blue and white aerosol can with a NAPA logo on > the top. The NAPA stock number is 765-1366. > It's called "SPRAY LUBE FOR OPEN GEARS" John, thanks for this information. I'll see if it's still available. All best, Steven ------- Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:07:52 -0000 From: "joe_sozanski" Subject: Oil Cups [Metal_Shapers group] Anybody else get tired of some to the exisiing oil cups located in hard to reach places on machines and alter them? On the Atlas shaper the one on the countershaft is right under the drip tray and a bit annoying to get to. I turned down a piece of stock to fit the countershaft housing, drilled a blind hole, then one from the side at about 45 deg. I soldered a piece of tubing there and one on the opposite end for the oil cup. Now the oil actually gets in the cup! Last year I added oil cups and tubing to the 4 drilled holes in the frame. They drip right on the link pin and bushing. Joe ------- Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:30:31 -0000 From: "Don Kinzer" Subject: Re: Oil Cups A previous owner did something similar on my Atlas for the countershaft oiler using some 1/8" pipe and fittings. Here is link to a picture of the setup: http://tinyurl.com/5zt85 Full link: http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/Atlas_7B_Shaper/atlas_oiler.jpg Don in Portland, OR ------- Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:36:56 -0000 From: "joe_sozanski" Subject: Re: Oil Cups "grouchy_old_fred" wrote: > I've been thinking about doing something similar, after deciding that > a single-point oiler would be too much fooling around with the > different oiling rates. What size tubing did you use? Copper? I was > thinking about using tubing big enough to put a spring-cap cup on top > so it would look like it 'fit' with the machine. > Of course, this will require a new paint job too! 8^) > Also looking at adding flaps/shrouds to keep chips out of places > where they have obviously caused damage in the shaper's past. Fred Fred, I used 3/8 brass tubing and threaded the outside piece 1/4-20 and tapped the inner one. I used assored bits and pieces of tubing about 3/16 od. The soldering isn't to good the soldering iron is to small and the torch I have a bit overkill on small stuff. I'll post some pics under Atlas Oil Cups if there's still space left I notice the pix site is getting pretty full. I haven't got around to painting yet. Making chips is more fun! Joe ------- Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 17:27:42 -0000 From: "larry_galvin" Subject: Re: Slightly off topic--Bridgeport shaper head [Metal_Shapers group] "James L. Hainline" wrote: > I have a Bridgeport E head (shaper) that I recently acquired. The > gearbox is low on oil. The only literature I have calls for a 600w > gear or steam oil. Jim, I think that you will find that Mobil SHC 634 will do the job for you. A few years back I did a bunch of reserch at work and found that this synthetic oil would work in all worm boxes that we had and was supported by all the manufactures of the various gearboxes we have at work. So at this point in time that is the standard oil that we use in all, literally hundreds, the gearboxes at work. lg ------- Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:15:52 -0000 From: volzmechatronicx~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Slightly off topic--Bridgeport shaper head A purloined copy of Texaco's "Lubrication Recommendation Handbook", 1996 Edition, lists at Bridgeport Machines, under Vertical Milling Machines, for Power Feeds and SHAPING Attachments, their "Meropa 460". "460" is a key part of this puzzle. http://www.prod.exxonmobil.com/lubes/marine/products/mn_mineral_lubric ants.html -- --Under "Steam Cylinder Oil" is listed "Mobil 600W Sup, Cylinder Oil" with an ISO viscosity grade of "460" = ISO 460. --Under "Gear Oils" is listed "Mobil Gear 634" with ISO 460. There are two lubrication files in "Files" here that I originally stole from Scott's Lathe_List group: --ple0105lube.pdf which lists under "worm gear oil" some interchangeable manufacturers' lubes. Texaco has a "Vanguard 460" (What happened to Meropa 460? The key is "460".) There are no entries for Mobil. --Lube Doc.doc . Just look thru this one, especially the inital chart that shows equivalencies for the various systems of viscosity grading. Go to: http://www.mscdirect.com . Go to Big Book page 2672. See Mobil SHC 634 (ISO 460), 1 quart x~xx $11.66, Order # 60002219 . I would probably use this Mobil ISO 460 lube, however, I would first---still double check with both Mobil and with Hardinge. Art (Houston) ------- Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:02:45 -0800 From: "James L. Hainline" Subject: Re: Slightly off topic--Bridgeport shaper head Art, others interested. More research into the Bridgeport shaper gear lub issue. It does indeed take Mobil 600w Cylinder Oil or equivalent. Here are some equivalents. Hope this might help others. American Lubricant AGMA #7 Castrol Tribol 1105-7C Chevron Cylinder Oil W460 Conoco Inca Oil 460 Exxon (Esso) Spartan EP 460 Fiske Bros. SPO-277 (MSC has this) Shell Valvata J 460 Texaco Vanguard 460 Jim ------- Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:16:15 -0000 From: "Mark Williams" Subject: Re: Tool anti rustI [Prints_and_Plans] I have been using a product called 'Camelia oil'. Apparently it was used by Japanese warriors to stop their swords rusting. In my experience it gives first class protection to all my tools and doesn't mar wood. A very little is needed, a quick wipe with a cloth dampened with it is all that's required. It can be got from quality hand tool suppliers. I paid £7 for the last 200ml bottle I bought 2 years ago and am about half way through it. I use it on all my woodworking chisels and planes, and on all the mic's etc. -- anything that I don't want to rust. Regards, Mark p.s. I don't make it, honest. It just works for me :-) ------- Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:18:30 -0500 From: "Jim RabidWolf" Subject: Re: Re: Tool anti rustI Very good stuff - I actually do use it on my swords. Fragrant, cleaning, not messy at all. It's used after cleaning the sword with rice powder and rice paper. Jim RabidWolf Uncle Rabid ( http://www.unclerabid.com ) We Repair Electronic Speed Controllers For Asian Mini Lathes and Mini Mills ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following posting regarding oiling Atlas lathes has been put here as the advice is applicable to many brands/types of machine. ------- Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:07:27 -0000 From: "Gary Brady" Subject: Re: 10" Atlas questions [atlas_craftsman] In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Paul Cataldo" wrote: > I would like to know how to lube the holes that have the little ball in the center, almost like that of a zerk fitting, with the "spring action" ball in the center. Just noticed these on my lathe. There are only a few of them, one of which is right where the carriage handwheel protrudes from the carriage...> I use a pump type oil can with the flexible spout. It has a pointed nozzle which just fits into the hole and so allows you to push in on the ball a bit. Takes both hands to push in and then squeeze the pump. Gary Brady ------- Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:28:27 -0000 From: "n5kzw" Subject: Re: 10" Atlas questions I have a small, pump-type, oil can with a rigid spout. A couple of swipes with a sharp-edged swiss file put crossed grooves across the tip of the oiler. The rigid spout makes it easy to depress the ball, and the oil squirts out through the grooves. Ed ------- Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 22:23:36 -0500 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Re: 10" Atlas questions Yep, helps quite a bit if you cut a small slot in the end of the spout's point, thru the hole...lets the point push the ball and oil can still come out thru the slot...otherwise the ball wants to seal the hole in the spout end. JT ------- Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:03:33 EDT From: gto69ra4x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: 10" Atlas questions 7/21/2005, pc79x~xxbellsouth.net writes: >> Yes, I can be creative, but I guess I was wondering what Atlas designed these for. Surely not a syringe full of oil... Why are they different from every other "oiling point" location? << Where they used them varied by year, I think it was mainly due to cost. Older Atlas lathes used 100% Gits flip-top oilers on the QC box. Later ones (of the original series--I'm talking '50s here) used the ball oilers. I think they're a pain in the rear. Probably will replace them with Gits oilers next time I have it apart. At least one or two on the apron are there probably due to space contraints. Syringe of oil, pump oil can with a narrow spout, needle oiler, take your pick. There's no Atlas-spec'd oiling device I'm aware of. GTO(John) ------- Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:49:22 -0000 From: "bonnietr6" Subject: Re: 10" Atlas questions Years ago everyshop had a collection of oiling devices, the most ubiquitous of which was a small hemispherically shaped can with a thin spout radiating from its upper axis. The bottom was concave and could be depressed, causing a drop of oil to emanate from the spout. The bottom would then spring back (from whence the sheetmetal working term "oilcanning" came). Every sewing machine came with one (back when people sewed). One can be seen here: They are popular for low clearance areas. Regular GITS type oilers are also prone to having their tops torn off, whereas the ball type can be durable. Charles ------- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:00:39 -0000 From: "eferg2001" Subject: Need drip oiler for cnc mill [taigtools] I have a Taig CNC mill and I use a lot of miniature end mills (under 0.050" dia) with very slow feed rates. I squirt a couple of drops of tap cutting fluid every minute. Of course babysitting the mill this way partially defeats having cnc. I don't want flood or mist - the tap fluid works great and doesn't make a big mess. I purchased a drip oiler and mounted it to the spindle with a flex tube. The drip oiler is simply a closed cup that has an adjustable valve and works on gravity. I can set the drip rate to one drop per minute. The problem is it is very erratic and often stops dripping during the job. I want to buy or make a more reliable oiler. I'm thinking of a miniature pump controlled by a timer motor & switch. I wonder if a little pump for tabletop fountains would handle oil? Any ideas on a simple solution? Ed ------- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:25:27 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Need drip oiler for cnc mill Ed: Drip oilers are very dependable and have been used on various older engines for many years. First you need to make sure your oil passagage is clear and open as it is suppose to be especially if it is brand new. Your problem is very typical of of a blocked or closed vent (Or lack of) at the top of the oiler. If you have connected a tube to the bottom of the oiler exit it will also give this problem. A seperation is required between the oiler and an extension tube. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:16:01 -0700 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: Need drip oiler for cnc mill What about a perstaltic pump? http://www.animatedsoftware.com/pumpglos/peristal.htm They are frequently used for metering fluids at a set rate.Ebay has a bunch at relatively low prices. It wouldn't be hard to make one either. Other than that, what about pressurizing the oiler so that it always has a couple of PSI forcing the fluid out against atmospheric pressure. I never had much luck with gravity feed for constant feed of fluid... too many variables. As the amount of liquid is reduced the pressure is reduced as well, thus leading to the stoppages you describe. Then again you could reinvent the water clock, which does overcome those problems to a certain extent... http://www.ubr.com/clocks/pub/clep/clep.html Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:03:02 -0500 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: RE: Need drip oiler for cnc mill I have used drip oilers found on older gas engines to dispense cutting fluid. I buy them at flea markets and have paid as little as $5 US for them. Most are made of brass with a glass body so the level of oil can be readily seen from a distance. The flow of oil is controlled by a needle valve that can be infinitly adjusted. Most of the older drip oilers also have a quick shutoff valve. They range in size from 1/2 inch all the way up to a whopping 12" in diameter. FBA ------- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:39:47 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Need drip oiler for cnc mill Just to throw another idea onto the pile, there was a neat pump in a lab where I used to work. The application was similar to what a peristaltic pump is made for, but for lower flow rates. It was a stepper motor, a lead screw, and enough hardware to hold a large-volume syringe. A little 555 timer IC circuit made the stepper tick over at a regular (and variable!) rate. This slowly shoved the plunger down the syringe, forcing the fluid out tiny bits at a time. The nice thing was you could change out the syringe based on what you needed to pump. So for innocuous stuff you could use a plastic syringe. For corrosives you could stick a glass syringe in the machine. If you had to pump a bunch of different things, each got its own syringe and could be swapped out at will. Come to think of it, you could possibly set something like that up as another axis for your machine. Use relative moves of a given length to squirt that much coolant. The motor size was pretty small. I've found steppers of similar size while scrapping old dot matrix printers. For small syringes a stepper from a 5-1/4" floppy would probably do the trick. It wouldn't take a Gecko driver to move the thing. Still going to cost more than the drip oilers Brad was getting at the flea markets, though. Tom ------- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 23:13:05 -0000 From: "eferg2001" Subject: Re: Need drip oiler for cnc mill Thanks for all the great replies! I never heard of a peristaltic pump before today - but that's what I need. Looks like they have all sizes on ebay - I'll keep watching. One guy even has just the small pump head to use with any motor. I have a coolant on/off relay on my mill controller and I also have a spare axis (I never use all 4 axis at once). It would be nice to turn one of these pump heads with a stepper. The issue is, I don't think there is a way to have a timer interrupt event running in TurboCNC. Worst case is I use a timer motor with cam-operated switch. The drip oiler I now use does have a needle valve and an air gap, but it is not reliable. I think I'll go the pump route and the price is reasonable. Ed ------- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:55:35 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re: Need drip oiler for cnc mill >If you were to just spring load a syringe and have a needle valve for >control rather than just rely on gravity.. would that improve the >control of the drips? Back in my old days at the GM plant, most of our heavy machinery had something similar in thought, but not in size. They were a large glass cylinder that would hold about a gal or more of oil, They were the reservoir for a smaller "pump" for the lack of a better word. The pump was a smaller cylinder with a spring loaded piston and a metering valve (needle valve) and then a network of supply lines, The pump had a handle that the operator would lift, charging the pump, and then push down, basically just getting the handle out of the way. The pump was a smaller cylinder with a spring loaded piston and a metering valve (needle valve) and then a network of supply lines, The volume of oil in the pump was good for a shift of work. The large glass cylinder would be filled as needed. One thing to keep in mind with these systems is that the tubing, and any hole in the network, was filled with cotton wicking. You basically had a wick from the pump all the way to the way it was servicing. It required a lot of care making sure that at any junction, you made sure all the wicking was in contact with each other. Any gaps in the wick was a loss of lubrication for the remainder of that path. It was easy to see where we had missed the connection after a rebuild had run a week or so. It was sometimes impossible to resolve without another tear down. As liquid takes the path of the least resistance, If you had a system of four lines with a common start point, most of the oil would be delivered to the shortest line, without the wicking. You could eliminate the wicking, but it would require a balanced adjustment of needle valves, one at the outboard end of each line. Opening one would reduce pressure in the system and others may stop suppling oil until they were opened up more. I've never seen a system like this used. The oil cups with the drip viewing glass were usually used only on things like head stock bearings, Somewhere where you had a gravity feed. One Drip cup per bearing. Unless you had a wet headstock. On Lathes and mills, the oil was usually manually applied through oil cups or such. Each repair crew had a guy whose only job was to oil the machines. His whole shift was to go around and pump, fill, grease, etc. On the Taig lathe, there is no place for oil other than a drop on the bed and cross slide and screw every now and then. On the Mill, it isn't much different, but the X axis looks to be a problem waiting to happen as there just isn't an easy way to oil the ways. A system of wicks would be nice here. ------- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:55:10 -0700 From: "Paul W. Chamberlain" Subject: Re: Need drip oiler for cnc mill For those that have money to burn (not me), there's always the Trico Micro-Drop system: http://www.tricomfg.com/store/ProdLineInfo.asp?ProdLineID=31&Pro dSeg=MetalCutting http://www.jlindustrial.com/catalog/product.jsp?origin=SEARCH%3AKEY WORD&id=TRI-30801D# Paul, Central OR ------- Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:15:07 -0800 From: "Karin Corbin" Subject: cutting aluminum [taigtools] Aluminum is porous. If you are using a petroleum based product such as WD-40, kerosene, wax or transmission fluid it is going to get absorbed and a small amount will remain in the metal. That is fine if you have no intention of further processing the part such as painting it or coating it with other substances or using adhesives on it. My previous manufacturing work was at Boeing where most of the metal used was aluminum. The aluminum cutting fluids primarily consisted of cetyl alcohol. Boeing worked with chemical manufacturing companies to make cutting fluid formulas specific to their needs. They are available at retail, Boelube is the primary one I remember. It comes in liquid, sticks, paste, blocks, etc. Cetyl alcohol does smoke if it gets really hot, it is a water soluble oil made from plants such as palm and coconut. I have heard of guys grabbing a tube of chapstick if they had nothing else to use since its primary ingrediant is cetyl alcohol. Karin ------- Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 02:00:37 -0000 From: "campgems" Subject: Re: Way oil sure is sticky In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, Jim McMillan wrote: >> Is there anything wrong with using a plain old light machine oil on the ways and screws like "3 in 1" oil, or a light motor oil? I really wish Taig would weigh-in on the subject. Seems to be as many opinions as users out there! Maybe it just doesn't matter that much... Jim << Jim, it more of a case of anything is better than nothing. There are differences in the performance of oils though. Basically you want an oil with enough viscosity that it provides a barier between the moving metal parts. If they rub, they will gall. Then logic would say that a good thick grease would be best. If nothing was going on but movement, that may be a good answer, however when you add in stuff like ease of movement, dirt and grit attraction, Odor, well the list is long, then other virtues beside the basic lubrication ability comes into play. There are a number of right