This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lubricant information and lubricating tips specific for Myford lathes from many users are gathered here. I also have a large number of email digests from the earlier MyMyford group that disbanded. As of July 2015, I finally caught up by adding many messages from earlier years in the MyMyford and myfordlathes groups. The posts from the discontinued MyMyford group occasionally contain references to its group files or group photos, which obviously no longer exist. Sometimes they may still be found in the new Yahoo myfordlathes group. If not, chances are the message identifies the originator and his/her email address. They may be able to provide you the reference file or photo directly if you email them. It quickly became apparent that some questions and answers about lubrication for a Myford come up quite regularly. There are several similar conversations recorded here, but they are not entirely redundant as they often contain a useful new fact or tip. But at some point in time, pretty well anything you ever need to know about Myford lubrication will have been covered fairly thoroughly and this particular file's growth will slow. And it will also be useful to read the file here called Myford Lathe Gems, as discussions on other Myford related topics in that file may sometimes include mention of lubrication problems and solutions. Be aware that much more generic lubricating information is also in the larger file here called Lubricants General. Some of that information even came from a Myford discussion group but, if applicable to other machine brands too, was placed in the generic file. If you are concerned with finding a suitable lubricant for your Myford lathe or other machinery, and cannot find the make and grade recommended by the manufacturer, you will find practical and often less expensive answers here. There will be close equivalents made by other companies. Lubricants, besides making parts slide nearly effortlessly past one another and thus minimizing both friction and wear, may also serve as a protectant against moisture and corrosion. But a good protectant may not be the best lubricant, and the reverse might be true. Choice of the best product depends very much on the materials concerned and the actual result desired in a particular situation. Certain lubricants may also have great penetrating ability, which we can regard simplistically as the ability to crawl into the slim interface between parts and help unstick them, perhaps also loosening oxidation. This file is primarily concerned with products for their function as lubricants, but will include protectant or penetrant qualities in some conversations. We also include some useful information about oilers and how lubricants can be applied to Myford lathes. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2016 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== INTRODUCTORY NOTE: I started this particular file when I got a Myford Super 7. I was already very familiar with Atlas lathes and their lubrication peculiarities, but lubricating the Myford appeared to be a far more complex affair. It seems to sprout lubricating nipples and cups all over, some evident, and others far less obvious. Yes lubrication is discussed in the manual, but far better is an article in Model Engineers Workshop on the Super 7 with complete details and clear photos showing every lubrication point. I strongly recommend that any 7 owner obtain a back issue of MEW #184 from December 2011. And make a detailed checklist to ensure you don't miss any. Yes a real checklist where you check off each oil point as you do it. You can encase a printed list in plastic and do the check offs with an erasable marker. ------- Oiling ML7 [MyMyford] Posted by: "cim95cd2" cim95cd2x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:00 pm ((PDT)) Hi all I have seen that you are supposed to use ISO32 oil to lubricate the ML7. I use Shell Tellus 46 to lubricate my mill. What do you think about using this oil to the ML7 as well? Best regards Daniel Carlsson ------- Re: Oiling ML7 Posted by: "svenalferink" sven.alferinkx~xxwur.nl Date: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:00 am ((PDT)) My guess is that if you could get Tellus 46, it's also not a big problem for you to get some of the Tellus 32 and use that for your ML7. For the little trouble and money involved I would advise to stick to the grade that Myford specifies. The Tellus 46 is one grade thicker than the Esso Nuto H32 that Myford specifies, Tellus 32 is has the same viscosity. I've read stories of people using car engine oil in their lathe for years and reporting no problems. So chances are that Tellus 46 might work as well. But it's better to be safe than to be sorry. Spending 7 euro per litre for some ISO-32 oil does not compare to the price you probably paid for the lathe or the cost of new spindle bearings. ------- Re: Oiling ML7 Posted by: "cim95cd2" cim95cd2x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:49 am ((PDT)) I called esso here in sweden and they said that they did not have the Nuto H32 oil in stock but they had H46. I described that im going to use it to lubricate a lathe with it and he said that it should be no problem with the Nuto H46 grade. He said that if it is an hydraulic system it was not so good to use different viscosity but if the case just is lubrication as for the ML7 it should not be a problem to move up one grade. Both esso and shell seems to sell their professional oils in quantities of at least 20 litres, at least in Sweden. I already have 20 litres of Tellus S 46 at home so i think i will go for the Tellus oil. Best regards Daniel Carlsson ------- Re: Oiling ML7 Posted by: "Norman Atkinson" normanx~xxn-atkinson.wanadoo.co.uk Date: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:50 pm ((PDT)) Daniel, I think that we have been over and over this Nuto32 oil question many times. The answer is to forget the Nuto bit and to walk into an oil supplier and simply ask for 'Hydraulic oil to ISO 32 viscosity'. I think that you find that this is the stuff for topping up hydraulic jacks for motor cars etc. Consequently, it should be available in 5 litre containers -- or less. Norman ------- Re: Oiling ML7 Posted by: "svenalferink" sven.alferinkx~xxwur.nl Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:16 am ((PDT)) Daniel, Oil with ISO 32 viscosity is also used in the front/rear suspension of motorbikes. So you might want to check at a motorbike dealer for some ISO 32 grade oil in small cointainers or ask them to sell you some from their big 20 litre barrel. I also found some 1 litre bottles ISO32 (not Esso but Kroon Oil) at a local car replacement parts dealer. I hope this helps to locate some ISO32, if you're still looking for it. Sven ------- Re: Oiling ML7 Posted by: "ROSS LONGMORE" ross_rlx~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:00 pm ((PDT)) Daniel, I would like to second the comment from Norman. I use trolley jack oil on the spindle of my ML7 - it's ISO 32 viscosity hydraulic oil and thus ideal. The last time I bought some it cost about £2 or £3 for 1 litre. Best regards, Ross ------- Re: Oiling ML7 Posted by: "Christopher Hicks" cmh21x~xxcam.ac.uk Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:59 am ((PDT)) I, too, got ISO32 oil without difficulty, in my case from a supplier of small agricultural machinery that happens to be local. Paid about a tenner for 5 litres if I remember rightly. They were a bit puzzled when I told them it was for oiling a lathe, though! Christopher ------- Drip oilers [MyMyford] Posted by: "ianjones2003" jonesx~xxbeckermet3.freeserve.co.uk Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:02 pm ((PDT)) Hello A question on another subject if I may. I've had a look through previous posts and can't find anything. Drip oilers -- the manual I have says to set the drip to the slowest possible (except for high speed work). What does this mean? One drip/minute? 1 drip/hour? I realise that any excess will just leak through, so presumably I should err on the generous side. Maybe easier to answer another way, how long should a full oiler last roughly? Regards Ian ------- Re: Drip oilers Posted by: "drookle" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT)) I've always taken this as meaning the first click on the knurled wheel, and I just measured the movement in my ML7 bearings at 0.005mm. This after 35 years of regular (albeit careful) use, during which I've never had to adjust. Pretty extraordinary, when you think about it -- maybe a fringe benefit of the light construction, by industrial standards -- means that (unless you're a farmer -- see below) there is no incentive to overload the mandrel bearings because the anguished suffering of lathe is so evident! If your oiler doesn't have the knurled index, I'm afraid I can't help with how long a full oiler should last. I've always only put in enough oil for the current session, because I knew I'd forget to turn the oiler off afterwards and the oil would be wasted. My guess at how much oil you'd need for a four hour session with some high speed content? 3mm would be generous for the front bearing, and half that for the back one. (It depends greatly on how much clearance you already have, though, the rich get richer etc....) I never used more than one click on the back bearing, even at high speed. I must post the full story some day about the biggest job I've ever seen done in a Myford ML7. My farmer friend, who's in his sixties, inherited it from his dad. It's -- how can I put this tactfully -- somewhat bedraggled? This didn't stop him using it a few years ago to turn the stainless bearing journals on the absolutely massive home-built carbon fibre spade rudder stock for his 12m yacht, made a beautiful job of it -- anyway, the relevance of this story is that I asked him recently how his lathe's mandrel bearings were, and he said he had to tighten them when he got chatter, and loosen them whenever they got too hot! Turns out someone had thrown away the shims. He didn't know it was supposed to have any. He's shimmed it now (and cleaned it). He rang me up, and announced "My lathe's grey too!" He'd always imagined it was brown). And he says the lathe goes even better (his shells were quite scored, so do not throw away your shims just yet. Remarkably, the spindle journals were OK). I guess the moral if any is that there is no call to get despondent if your lathe is not in the first flush of youth. ------- Easy Oiling [MyMyford] Posted by: "pietbutter" ehmbutter-deruyterx~xxorange.nl Date: Sun Sep 2, 2007 4:09 am ((PDT)) My lathe did not come with the 'oil pump' A big word for next to nothing, which, by reading earlier comments, is a nuisance to use as oil gets everywhere except where required. Did not fancy buying one for way too much money. I have a standard blue can oil pump (5 euro) that comes standard with a fixed spout and a flexible 'armored' hose. I was trying to figure out how to get oil into the nipples. The 'spout' on the flexible hose was cut-off and the copper wire in the hose removed. Slid the hose over the oil nipple, held firmly by hand, and pumped slowly. Works OK for me. Plus the flexible hose allows you to get to the more difficult to reach nipples, back gear, etc. really easily. Just thought I'd mention it. Piet ------- Re: Oil Dispensing options [MyMyford] Posted by: "drookle" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Sun Sep 2, 2007 7:51 am ((PDT)) Thanks for that great tip, Piet I've still got the item which came with the ML7 (in 1973), I hesitate to call it a gun, using it is like turning up to a gunfight with a wet bus ticket. It doesn't even work as well now as it did then. A modification which would improve it would be to add a side handle behind the nozzle, to allow applying some serious sealing pressure. However I can't summon up too much enthusiasm for trying to make a silk purse out of the aural appendage of a piglet. The worst of it is, the cap leaks... I was on the point of plonking down US$64 plus postage for a rather superior looking lever-action gun from McMaster Carr (1879K48) but I might give your stratagem a try. ------- Re: Easy Oiling [MyMyford] Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:50 pm ((PDT)) I just bought a mini pressure grease gun for about $20. Sort of like this one. Mine was more but the quality is quite good. http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/mtn2510.html I removed the rod that runs inside the length of the tube. Then with a bolt, nut, a couple of washers and a dab of RTV, I sealed up the hole in the end cap. Before replacing the end cap, I wrapped the threads with a bit of Teflon tape. The business end of the grease gun latches quite securely onto the Myford pressure oil fittings. The gun pumps the oil quite nicely -- remember that you have to hold it so the pump end is down in order for the oil to feed properly into the pump from the tube. I haven't tried removing any of the oil fittings to see if the oil is in fact getting through but after lubing the carriage, the bed sure seems to have a nice new film of oil on it. I may have a spare fitting around somewhere to try it out on. ------- Super 7 front headstock lubrication [MyMyford] Posted by: "Steve" sblakex~xxexemail.com.au Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:16 am ((PDT)) Maybe I'm worrying unnecessarily but my S7 just doesn't seem to use any oil on the front headstock bearing. I have seen previous posts on the same subject and have tried forcing some oil into the front oil cup but it just comes out of the small hole just below the headstock bearing (inside, under the belt guard) -- what's that hole for anyway? One of the previous posts suggests that the wick may be stuffed but it looks like the whole headstock assembly has to come off to check that. I've had the S7 for about 3 months and can't remember topping it up once -- although it's probably only actually run for about 10 hrs in that time. (Previously I had an ML7 which drank the oil and hence my concern). The front bearing housing is not getting hot, or even warm after about an hour on no-load running. Does anybody have a trick for accertaining whether the front headstock bearing is getting any oil, or how to check/change the wick? Cheers Steve ------- Re: Super 7 front headstock lubrication Posted by: "pietbutter" ehmbutter-deruyterx~xxorange.nl Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:28 am ((PDT)) Steve, I'm not the expert here but the two lubrication designs for the ML & S7 are completely different. To my best knowledge, the ML-7 is a 'continuous loss design, while the S7 is not and uses a capillary wick design. It will use some oil but very minimal. The hole is probably a breather / return hole to make sure no airlock develops and probably is also required to aid in spindle installation by pressing down on the spring loaded wick and insert a wire of small punch to keep the spring compressed during spindle intstallation. If you really do not trust it there is no other way than to remove the spindle and wick (replace if required) and clean the whole thing up. Prior to re-installing the used or new wick please ensure that it is 'primed' by soaking in oil as it may not work properly otherwise ------- Re: Super 7 front headstock lubrication Posted by: "Steve" sblakex~xxexemail.com.au Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT)) Thanks for your thoughts. I started to obsess about my lack of oil usage and ordered a new wick (Thanks to Minitech who had one in stock). This week I will lift the headstock and replace the wick. Peace of mind will be worth the few hours it'll take. Steve ------- oil the clutch [MyMyford] Posted by: "chardinej" chardinex~xxnbnet.nb.ca Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:55 am ((PDT)) My newly acquired Super 7 has not been used in a while so I'm going through the machine and lubricating as per the Myford Notes on Operation etc. booklet I have. On p. 17-18 it mentions oiling the cone clutch (2-3 drops per week). Could someone advise exactly where the drops of oil are applied. Thanks, John ------- Re: oil the clutch Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:28 pm ((PDT)) John, thats a lot of oil! For pro shop use 10 hrs a day, maybe. One drop a year placed at the top of the bronze cone disc in release position whilst rotating the iron pulley by hand will distribute the oil round the cone. Operate the clutch a few times to spread it about. Run the lathe a few minutes then wipe off the excess. Actually, if it does not squeak just as you drop it in "gear", there is well enough as is. I have been using my S7 35+ yr now. Still looks good. RichD ------- Re: oil the clutch Posted by: "chardinej" chardinex~xxnbnet.nb.ca Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:43 pm ((PDT)) Thanks. That at least confirms that the clutch does need a small amount of oil. I laid 1 drop in there and will forget it until 2008! John ------- Oil Gun Needed [MyMyford] Posted by: "Graham Harpin" gharpinx~xxhitec.renold.com Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:12 am ((PDT)) Hi Gents, I have just set up my ML7R (Green-KR15652M) and need to squirt some oil at it before setting to work. I have read of the low opinion of the Myford oil gun and as I don't have any way of lubricating yet I wonder if there are recommendations for a suitable oil gun. Maybe someone has a spare they could sell? or suggest where I could buy one. Or does anyone have the information needed to convert a grease gun to oil? Graham ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:07 pm ((PDT)) The grease gun conversion is quite simple (at least the way I did mine). I bought a good quality mini grease gun for about $20. I cut the rod in half and removed it. Then I rounded the hole in the end cap a bit and just sealed it with a nut, bolt, washer, and a bit of RTV. I put a bit of teflon tape on the threads of both ends, filled with oil, and away I went. You do need to keep the oil in contact with the pumping end (ie pump with the gun sort of upside down) as it just gravity feeds into the pump hole. Unless I've missed something, that's about it. ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "chardinej" chardinex~xxnbnet.nb.ca Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:30 pm ((PDT)) I'll try the grease gun modification. Until then, and on the advice of a fellow Myford owner, I keep the oil nipples finger tight and add oil with a can as needed. (Question -- is this adequate or do you need to apply oil under pressure so that it gets where it's needed?). The one nipple I can't get to with this method is the one on the vee cone pulley assembly on the spindle. However, at this early stage I have had no need to use the backgear so I'm not too worried. John ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "drookle" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:07 pm ((PDT)) In some cases, where the clearances are tight (hopefully for the cone pulley) and/or the distances are large (the apron and carriage) you do have to inject the oil under pressure. If you buy (perhaps from a place which sells fibreglass and epoxy resin, etc) or can scrounge a syringe, and turn up a suitable tip to plug onto the tapered end, that will get you by. The Rolls Royce solution is at McMaster Carr (great website). Item # 1879K48, US$65ish + freight ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:36 pm ((PDT)) I just had a look at the Mcmaster Carr website and the picture of that gun doesn't look any different than the little grease gun that I converted; the description did say it was for oil though. What extra would you get from that gun beyond doing your own conversion ? ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "drookle" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:03 pm ((PDT)) I imagine there's some form of follower piston, designed for oil, to ensure the small piston of the high pressure pump is always primed regardless of which way is up. This is pure surmise as I don't own one. ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "pietbutter" ehmbutter-deruyterx~xxorange.nl Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:53 am ((PDT)) Dave, you can spend as much money as you want but have a look at message # 7788. Worked fine for me but could even be improved if so required. Drookle, have you tried and tested this yet?? Regards, Piet ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:45 am ((PDT)) If you mean message 1788, that was my post & my new $20 oiler. ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "drookle" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:47 am ((PDT)) Piet, I haven't spotted any oil cans yet with flex spouts, the only one I have has a rigid tube. Of recent weeks, I've had two Myfords, but neither running, so no oiling. I've now transplanted enough finished bits to get an ML7 running, so I'll experiment a bit. Reviewing your post, and not having a can to inspect (in any case, presumably they're not all created equal) I'm not entirely sure just what your modification was -- did you strip out the reinforcing wire so the outer would fit over the zerk? ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:46 am ((PDT)) No, I left the reinforcing wire completely intact. It fits over the zerks perfectly. ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "drookle" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:26 pm ((PDT)) Your post 1788 was a reply to Piet's post # 1770. (Don't ask me where he got the number 7788 from, they must have a different counting system in Holland -- BigGrin.) In which he modified a pump-type oil can, and (as I understand it) pulled out the spiral of flattened wire which forms the inner to the flexible delivery tube. NOTE TO FILE: See message above that is already in this file: Easy Oiling [MyMyford] Posted by: "pietbutter" ehmbutter-deruyterx~xxorange.nl Date: Sun Sep 2, 2007 4:09 am ((PDT)) ------- Re: Oil Gun Needed Posted by: "pietbutter" ehmbutter-deruyterx~xxorange.nl Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:24 am ((PDT)) Sorry guys, don't know what I was thinking there. regards, Piet ------- ML7 lube points [MyMyford] Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:57 am ((PDT)) I have always been concerned at the lack of an oil nipple in the headstock pulley on my ML7 because lubrication here is stressed when using backgear. I shall be removing the spindle soon as part of an overhaul so I wonder if it would be worthwhile drilling a hole in the pulley and fitting a nipple. Until now I have removed the recessed grub screw from the middle pulley and squirted oil down the hole, but am not sure if oil is actually reaching the bearing. Being an early lathe (K8733) it has the sprung ball lubricators on the carriage and apron etc. rather than proper nipples as used in later machine. All but one of these is functional so would there be any advantage to fitting nipples? Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Myford Oilers [MyMyford] Posted by: "pietbutter" ehmbutter-deruyterx~xxorange.nl Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:06 am ((PDT)) Hi all, I had ordered some new drip feed oilers from Myford a while ago. They are the 'new' all brass ones. I was expecting the older nickle style ones but you can't have it all. As I finally came to mounting them, I noticed that they did not drip. The only thing I could do is open them far enough the so that they would flood the drip sight glass. I could not adjust them in any way. I dismantled one of the old ones and found that the drip sight glass had a hole drilled in them. The new ones did not and had a gasket on each side of the tube. I reckoned that mine were getting airlocked, so I filed a little notch in the top mside of the tube and re-assembled the oilers. All works fine now and drip can easily be regulated to whatever feed rate required. Would appreciate is anyone can tell me what the required drip rate vs RPM is. Don't know if mine was an isolated case or there are more oilers like that. You may wnat to check yours that you either got from Myford, Chronos, RDG etc. as they all seem to be supplying the same. Kind regards, Piet ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "Phil Tuck" folliesx~xxntlworld.com Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 am ((PDT)) Hi. I have the same problem with mine. They came with the lathe, so source unknown, but they are not standard Myford. My oil just 'seeps' out and around the sides of the circular sight glass part. I got mine regulated by firstly taking them off the machine and letting them 'drip' or 'seep' whilst hanging over the bench. Once I had a rough idea I installed them. I get through a glass of oil (1 inch Diam X 1.25 inch high APPROX) about every two hours. Most likly that is way too much though, someone with more knowledge may be a better guide on that. Phil ------ Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT)) Phil- The appropriate rate would be more like one glass a month of continuous use. There must be lots of oil sloshing around the bed under your headstock? It may be that you need to check the radial clearance in your bearings -- I'm surprised that so much oil could leak out of the ends of the bearings unless they're very sloppy. This can be adjusted by peeling off one or more shims from the stack one each side of each bearing. Piet: The best way to regulate is to start from the lowest feasible amount, and keep a close eye on the bearing temperature. If it rises 20 degrees C, that's probably time to increase the drip rate slightly. ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "Phil Tuck" folliesx~xxntlworld.com Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:23 am ((PDT)) Hello. Hmmmmmmm interesting! I had already wondered on this and have found no radial play in the bearings when trying to move a 10 inch bar (it had a Morse 2 on the end, and was thus straight into the mandrel). I naturally assumed that the bearings had oilways cut in them to allow the free passage of oil to flow through -- is that not the case then? It is ok with the back mounted parting tool on steel bar and with no chatter on normal cutting so I have no reason to suspect play -- but now you have me worried Phil ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:33 am ((PDT)) Sorry if my hypothesis has worried you, from what you describe play cannot be the explanation. Oilways normally stop short of the ends of a bearing shell, but they may have got extended by someone with shares in Exxon, or Royal Dutch Shell.... ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "pietbutter" ehmbutter-deruyterx~xxorange.nl Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:23 am ((PDT)) Troup, thank you on your advice on lubrication rates. Phil ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "Phil Tuck" folliesx~xxntlworld.com Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:51 am ((PDT)) Hello. I have come recently from a Warco lathe, so I too forget to switch the oilers off quiet a bit. I now have a baking tray to collect the oil, but I will definitely be altering the flow rate now as it seems mine is adjusted too fast. Not having worked with white metal bearings for at least 25 years, and then only briefly as that particular lathe DID have worn out white metal bearings, tends to make you overcautious now. Phil ------ Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "pietbutter" ehmbutter-deruyterx~xxorange.nl Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:51 am ((PDT)) I'm a bit hesitant to reduce feed rate any further than the current setting which is about 1 drop every 1-2 minutes. But as Troup mentioned, bearing temp should be a good method of guidance but I rather use too much than too little, although at current oilprices...... [:D] Piet ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "peter104223" p.neillx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 12:46 pm ((PDT)) Well I'd rather vehemently disagree with Troup's suggestion of 1 glass of oil a month. The actual advice I got from Myford techs when I spent some time with them after picking up my reground bed, was that they recommend this is set to 1 drop every 30 seconds. Don't forget that the Myford spindle lube is a total-loss oil system, so if you don't have oil in the tray then something is wrong. The bearings run with clearance (however small) and oil will get flung out here, at both ends. My Ml7 has new bronze bearings and a new hardened spindle, is stiff to turn by hand with the shim preload correctly set, has bugger all TIR, gets a little warm (but not hot) when it runs, and yes -- I do have oil in the tray. Reduce the lubrication rates at your own peril. A 5 litre can of ISO32 hydraulic oil is cheap, and I'm probably only half way through the one I bought a year ago. Peter ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "Phil Tuck" folliesx~xxntlworld.com Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 1:13 pm ((PDT)) Hello. I still seem to have the problem that others mentioned of the 'drip' being a smear where it runs down the sides of the glass, rather than a clearly defined drip slowly forming. It's for that reason that mine is adjusted to be thirsty as it is only then that I can see a drip to gauge things by. Hence the wife pondering over the disappearance of her baking tray. Despite having no play in the bearings (bar in chuck test etc) I still lose all my oil if I leave the oilers on. Admittedly my flow rate is excessive, for reasons mentioned above, but I would have thought the bearings would still have held back the oil if they were unworn, unless I have an oil way that allows a through passage of oil I suppose. Phil ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "pietbutter" ehmbutter-deruyterx~xxorange.nl Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 5:40 am ((PST)) Phil, have you checked whether your oilers are getting airlocked or not? Do yours have a tiny hole drilled in to the sight glass below the reservoir? If so make sure they are in the upper part of the sight glass and not the lower one. If no holes at all are present but you have two rubber seals (upper and lower) on the sight glass you probably get airlocked, at least so did mine. I filed a little notch in the top of the sight glass and it works excellently. I can adjust the drip feed rate easily. Kind regards, Piet ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "Phil Tuck" folliesx~xxntlworld.com Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:57 pm ((PST)) Hello. Yes I had already drilled the holes. The oilers are not original (being brass & plastic) and I wonder if build quality (needle alignement and seating) could be the cause. The oilers do drop in level so it's going somewhere! It's more for peace of mind now I suppose. Phil ------- Oil nipples [MyMyford] Posted by: "novice1943nl" j.roos12x~xxchello.nl Date: Fri Dec 7, 2007 4:57 am ((PST)) Hi there. Is someone out there who knows about the sizes of oil nipples of my (early 60's) S7. It is about the nipples on the saddle, the headstock and the leadscrew. The manual says they are all 2BA, but this is not so in my case. They seem to be about 6 mm (1/4")while the one on the left side of the spindle seems to be about 1/8 BSP. Cannot measure the thread because the lengths are too short. Maybe a previous owner has modified things. Can somebody light his candle about this matter? cheers novice ------- Re: Oil nipples Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Fri Dec 7, 2007 8:20 am ((PST)) novice, the nipples are 2BA as I have made Zerk replacements for them. I still have the originals. My lathe is an early 70's as well. There are no metric fasteners on Myford. The right (on the front) spindle headstock oiler is 1/8 BSP. There are 3 flip top cup oilers with straight (drive in) sides that are 1/4". One on the left top spindle and two on the QC box. These may not be original. Maybe someone drilled the holes ans retapped them on yours? The standard grease Zerk in NA is 1/4-28 if that helps. Is there a metric version? A Zerk is the ball closed, ball shaped top nipple. A common grease fitting. RichD ------- Re: Oil nipples Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Dec 8, 2007 12:02 am ((PST)) Having seen 1/8" BSP and 2 BA mentioned in the literature I suspect that Myford fitted a variety of sizes over the years. In the case of my own ML7, the oil nipples were 1/4" straight sided press fit gadgets which nobody seems to have heard of, so when one of them fell apart I had to make a new one. Cliff Coggin ------- Esso Nuto or Equivalent in Canada? [MyMyford] Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:51 pm ((PST)) My installation is now reaching the point where level the bed of my S7 with the traditional machinists's level and chucked 6" bar. So far the only running has been vibration and tension tests. I am now considering the lubrication including draining and refilling the gearbox preparatory to actual use. Q1. - I have half a litre of Esso Nuto that came with the machine from Nottingham. Obviously I need more and am not sure where to get it. This is a speciality oil so does anyone know a source for a 4 litre can in Canada? I assume an Esso filling station won't have it. (Maybe they will and I'm looking daft here) Q2 - If Nuto is hard to source, what is an equivalent that someone uses? I wouldn't have to drain out the Nuto if I switch, would I? Q3 - Anything special to note about the general motor oil suitable for less critical lubrication, i.e., avoid synthetic or whatever? Oh yes, HAPPY NEW YEAR and may you all come across a Rodney attachment for pittance at a flea market! Andrew Webster ------- Re: Esso Nuto or Equivalent in Canada? Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:05 pm ((PST)) Hydraulic engineers should be able sort out an equivalent - the 32 is the important bit - the viscosity needs to be right for the headstock lube wick to work adequately. The gearbox is not that critical and a common motor oil will be fine. I use the cheapest from my local hypermarket here in UK. Bob ------- Re: Esso Nuto or Equivalent in Canada? Posted by: "Doug Rhodes" farronhillx~xxpacificcoast.net Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:39 pm ((PST)) Hello Andrew I am located in Victoria BC and have an old ML7 which also calls for such lubes. After a fair bit of research I found that Esso Nuto is available, but in large containers that represent a multi-lifetime supply for a hobbyist. However, it turns out to be a high quality ISO 32 hydraulic oil as well as a spindle oil and, hence, easy to find in 1 litre containers as such under various brand names. That for the spindles and gears. A good ISO 68 way oil is recommended for the ways (sticky stringy stuff) and Mobil Vactra 2 is often recommended. I found another brand of way oil in US gallon jugs at KBC Tools, which has a Vancouver store. A litre would have been enough! That said, a grizzled operator at a local machine shop told me not to bother, they buy cases of SAE30 non-detergent motor oil at Wal-Mart and use it for all purposes on their machines without apparent harm. The non-detergent aspect is important, especially for old machine tools that have a sump and no oil filters. You want the little bits of wear products to drop out of the oil, not be carried with it like a detergent oil does to get them to the filter, as in your car. Have enjoyed your progress reports on your "new" Myford ... (mine being 1956 vintage!) Doug Victoria BC ------- Re: Esso Nuto or Equivalent in Canada? Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:06 pm ((PST)) Oils to suit Myford spindle bearings should ideally be (as has been stated) hydraulic oil, and should conform to ISO VG32 viscosity spec, roughly equivalent to SAE 10 Shell Tellus V32, Exxon (formerly Esso) Nuto H32, Mobil DTE32, BP HLP32, Castrol Hyspin AWS32 are all perfect alternatives. As regards the gearbox: in contrast to the situation when Myford wrote their manuals halfway through last century, today's multigrade motor lubricants don't make ideal machine oils. Partly this is because they contain additives to mitigate corrosion and condensation problems unique to engines, revolving around high temperatures, blow- by of combustion products, and such. Furthermore, detergents in modern motor oils are designed to keep particulates in suspension for subsequent filtration. In the likes of a Myford gearbox, with no filtration system or magnetic or centrifugal separator, the particles will continue to circulate, in constant contact with wearing surfaces. A gear oil of suitable viscosity (around ISO VG68), whose additives are tailored to the requirements of a machine tool, will be more likely to precipitate this wear debris as gunk at the bottom of the gearbox, where it belongs. Having said that, these are counsels of perfection, and if you use a 10-40 or 20-50 motor oil it will do just fine, especially if you change it regularly -- say once per year, assuming regular but not constant use. You would not need to change oil near as often with the industrial oil, if you can find a source. Lots of hobby engineers stress out about oil grades when they first buy a nice machine tool, but what really matters is to replenish the lube films regularly and keep the wearing surfaces as clean as possible. If you do this, the performance of lawnmower oil will be almost indistinguishable the exact correct grade and quality. And if you don't, the best oil in the world won't save the day. ------- Re: Esso Nuto or Equivalent in Canada? Posted by: "dmac_dexter" dmac_dexterx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 4:53 am ((PST)) I am in Nova Scotia. I called the local distributer for Esso Nuto 32 and found that it is a readily available hydraulic oil, but was only available in 20 liter pails at $38.00. The sales representative said any AW32 hydraulic oil would be the same and he suggested that I could pick up AW32 (ISO 32) at Canadian Tire Ltd., which I did in a 4 liter jug for slightly less than $10.00. I am using a straight 30 motor oil in the quick change gearbox. PS: The manual I have for the quick change gearbox indicates the use of SAE30 oil, not Nuto H 32. ------- Re: Esso Nuto or Equivalent in Canada? Posted by: "David Forsyth" notLeftBehindx~xxiwr.ru.ac.za Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 10:27 am ((PST)) It is just a hydraulic oil. Any hydrualic oil of the same or similar weight will do fine. I use 42 weight in my ML7. Do not use motor oil unless it is specifically labelled as detergent free. In the engine, detergent helps the oil to carry the particles to the filter. In the lathe, you want the particles to settle out so as not to form a grinding paste. David http://iwr.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/ ------- lubrication for new S7 [MyMyford] Posted by: "nialpatrick" nialpatrickx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:15 pm ((PST)) I have a brand new ML7R (same as Super7 but without the clutch) which I am just now getting ready to power up with a 3phase 1/2 HP motor and a VFD. I've had the lathe for 3 years already so it's about time. Unfortunately when I first got it I put some 30 W. oil in the headstock bearings oilers and spun the spindle by hand. It had been sitting in a warehouse for nearly 10 years so for some stupid reason I wanted to spin it. 30 W. is really too heavy but the oil cups and passageways are full of it and I can't get it out. Would it be OK to run the spindle at a real slow speed and add some lighter oil as the heavier oil is used up? nialpatrick ------- Re: lubrication for new S7 Posted by: "tcrowe1234" tcrowe1234x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:38 pm ((PST)) I wouldn't worry about it at all. I have used car oil in my Myford for the last 10 years with no problems. Tony ------- Re: lubrication for new S7 Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:50 pm ((PST)) nialpatrick, 30 W machine oil is what I've been using for 30+ years. Reading your lathe manual, you will find the proceedure for adjusting the spindle cone bearing clearance according to the needed service at hand and the oil type. RichD, USA ------- OIling the spindle pulley bearing [MyMyford] Posted by: "youra_windsor" yourax~xxgloubiboulga.org Date: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:38 am ((PST)) Hi all. Other than the Myford oil pump, which as far as I can tell everyone says is something of a waste of space in terms of getting oil everywhere expect where you want it, has anyone come up with a way of getting oil into the spindle pulley oil nipple? In my case it's an ML10, but I think the ML7 is the same.... Most oilers (and converted grease guns) have too large an end of their delivery tube to get in there at all, let alone keep a suitable angle to seal against the flat end of the old- type nipples. Really need to be able to use the backgear for lower speeds, but really unwilling if I can't get oil into the thing. Any pointers? Thanks, Youra ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "oegleston" oeglestonx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:59 am ((PST)) Youra, There have been a number of threads on the subject here with solutions that range from modified grease guns to alternative oilers. My quick and dirty solution was to modify an ordinary pump oiler by making a tip that fits inside the oil nipple. I can provide more detail if you are interested. Oliver Boston ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "svenalferink" sven.alferinkx~xxwur.nl Date: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:27 am ((PST)) Youra, I use a 10ml syringe (medical type, single use) to push oil into the oil nipple. The flat front of the 10ml syringe tip fits the flat of the nipple. You need to put some pressure to get a good sealing or the oil will come out sideways, which does happen, but I get most oil through the nipple. Probably not the most professional way, but it works for me. Sven ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:42 am ((PST)) youra, I use a modified greaser and it works great. I made my own Zerks with the 2BA thread. The couplers do come in various OD's. Search around for a smaller one. They are out there. RichD ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "Phil Hansen" skilphilx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:58 pm ((PST)) In off group mails with Rich Dean (informative - thanks) have also modified an grease pump and changed the Myford nipples to off the shelf grease nipples (zerks) which I turned down to 2BA. Works much better than the original setup on all except the backgear nipple. The syringe idea sounds good. ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:14 pm ((PST)) At Piet's suggestion, I tried modifying a standard (small Groz) pump-can oiler by snipping off the nozzle and pulling out the soft wire which runs down the centre of the flexible plastic reinforced hose to give it a bit of positional 'memory'. The idea was that the plastic hose is a close fit around the standard Myford oil nipples. I've been meaning to report back, Piet, to say that I felt a bit uneasy about whether oil was getting through in all cases, and so I took off the nipples and gripped them one at a time by their hex in the three jaw chuck, nipple outwards, and tried the pump can on them. Out of the nipples I tested (I think about seven) only three passed oil at all, at the maximum pressure the pump could deliver (before the pressed metal handle deflected so far that it touched the side of the can, automatically limiting the delivery pressure). Under the same test conditions the horrible OEM pogo-stick gun which came with the Myford from the factory did at least squirt copious quantities through every nipple* except one, which I have retired from active service (*as well as dribbling - or worse - round the entry). I seem to recall someone else reporting that the Myford nipples are quite inconsistent in the pressure drop across them, and I think anyone using a low pressure delivery approach like a pump can should run a similar test if they want to be sure sufficient oil is making it past the "officious gatekeeper". So another on my list of jobs is to modify a grease gun, of which I've purchased an example whose configuration is similar to a pump oiler, so it can be worked with one hand (while the other applies pressure to seal the nozzle to the nipple). I'm also hopeful I will be able to set an angle for the delivery tube which will enable me to keep the unit more or less upside down in all cases, so it primes itself. I'll come back when I've got something to report. ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:19 am ((PST)) I use one of the small cartridge grease guns, sealed the bottom by welding, and then made a fitting to seal a dip tube into the intake port. Now you can hold it right side up. The handle shape really only works that way anyhow. Also, you may find the pump shaft leaks oil. I made a gland nut, added an o-ring and that fixed that. It just happened that I had bought a Zerk coupler that is smaller than most. I made my own Zerks with a form tool in brass. Not the best material. Case hardened steel is much better. Some interesting history: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=584 RichD ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:43 am ((PST)) Rich, As I understand your 'dip tube' it's an extended suction intake tube which runs inside the housing to near the bottom, so it doesn't break the surface when held right way up ? A crafty idea, indeed! My mini gun is an unusual configuration, which is why I chose it. Held upside down, it's a bit like the spring exercise thingies used to strengthen hand muscles, where one of the handles is in fact the grease barrel. The return spring is strong, which is actually good as it makes it more stable and easier to operate with one hand. It's much more ergonomic for this mode with the barrel vertically up, so I shouldn't need to add a suction tube to mine. However I fully expect to have to add an O-ring where the pump shaft emerges - I think I can do it by loctiting on an internally stepped collar which will provide only two of the three faces of the o-ring groove, rather than having to do a 'proper' gland as it sounds as though you did. The priority project at the moment is a wrap-around wiper for the tailstock side of the carriage, so keep all that lovely oil in and the nasty chips and grit out. I was toying with trying something more modern like urethane blades, but I've decided to stick with squashed felt: it's done a great job on the factory wiper (on the other side of the ML7 carriage) for thirty-some years. However, mindful of the lack of a rear wiper, I always tried pretty hard to keep swarf off the part of the bed to the right of the carriage, which was rather a thankless and tedious job. In expectation of poorer housekeeping on this part of the bed, I followed the recommendation of Mark Rand, on this forum, (thanks, Mark !) and added screws to limit the travel of the tailstock clamp plate to the absolute minimum, so grit doesn't tend to get under that when repositioning the tailstock along the bed. On the ML7, the only wear that could be detected by fingernail was actually a slight trench about half way along the top of the bed, worn by the operator- side footing of the tailstock. Maybe it should get felt wipers, too ! Another diversion on that new theme: when I get time, I'll post photos and a more detailed description of a useful technique this inspired me to adopt, which very simply links the tailstock to the carriage. The point of this is to allow the carriage handwheel to be used as a quick-acting retractor, when drilling from the tailstock. Great for clearing chips out of deep holes, and (in the case of small drills) works nicely for feeding as well. The carriage simply pulls and pushes the tailstock bodily along the bed. For smallish holes, it doesn't require the Mark Rand mod in order to succeed (I actually applied it on my ML7, which is unmodified). It saved me an hour on a job which would otherwise have taken two hours this morning, drilling 2.5mm holes 40mm deep in brass, 40 of 'em. It was also a heck of a lot more enjoyable- especially given the ML7 tailstock, which has a large diameter single- start thread which also gets in the way of your hand when fully retracted, and with no thrust bearing. They really tackled a lot of small things when they came to design the Super 7, and I'm looking forward to discovering whether lots of little things add up to quite a big thing. For big holes, it would enable using power feed for drilling with a minimum of setup. ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:42 am ((PST)) Yes, just as any trigger sprayer bottle has. To draw off the bottom. It has to be absolutely air tight at the connection. RichD ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "DA. Forsyth" notLeftBehindx~xxiwr.ru.ac.za Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:18 am ((PST)) On 24 Jan 2008 at 10:43, tr0up murmured decisively: > For big holes, it would enable using power feed for drilling with a > minimum of setup. tailstock power feed http://iwr.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/lathe/tailpow.html David http://iwr.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/ ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "youra_windsor" yourax~xxgloubiboulga.org Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:11 am ((PST)) Hi Rich, it's the OD of the coupler and the tube that's floored me so far - all those I've tried have always been just _that_ bit too wide. On the subject of altering grease guns - is it fair to think that if a seal won't perish in grease, it won't perish in oil? Thanks for all the other suggestions too - the syringe has been suggested also by my brother-in-law with the rider that all those he's tried have not lasted as the rubber plunger seal has not held up very well to the oil. Y. ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "Tim Ostley" Tim.Ostleyx~xxgooglemail.com Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:03 am ((PST)) Hi, A chum of mine who has an S7 uses a standard pump oil can with a piece of flexible plastic tube over the end the internal diameter of which goes over the oil nipple (and obviously over the nipple on the end of the oil can.) I believe he uses ex-fish tank tubing. He swears by it and says there is no mess, all the oil goes where it is supposed to and the cost is negligible. It even gets to the difficult to reach oil nipples. I keep meaning to try it myself. Tim ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:05 pm ((PST)) Tim: Just make sure you remove and test all your nipples: as I mentioned, when I tried this method, in most cases, the oil was not getting through the nipple at all. Pump oilers are not designed to overcome the cracking pressure of the ball check valves built into nipples and zerks, and the Myford nipples are notoriously high and variable in their cracking pressure. It's also desirable that there's sufficient extra muscle left over to push the oil some distance through (hopefully) small clearances so it gets to the "coal face". ------- Re: OIling the spindle pulley bearing Posted by: "David Forsyth" notLeftBehindx~xxiwr.ru.ac.za Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:25 am ((PST)) I unscrew the fitting and use my ordinary pump oilcan with flexi spout. David http://iwr.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/ ------- The miserable oil fittings on Myfords [MyMyford] Posted by: "nialpatrick" nialpatrickx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:20 pm ((PST)) Anyone have any success changing these for zerks? Alemite sells these with British pipe threads but the Myford manual lists the ones on the lathe as #2 BA. Redrilling and tapping the holes is no good, too much crap left in 'em. Thanks, nialpatrick ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:31 pm ((PST)) We have been discussing this subject. Check the recent previous messages. I mentioned that I make my own Zerks because in the usa store-bought units are hardened steel and can't be rethreaded. Phil Hansen in SA says the Zerks there are soft. A simple HSS form tool can duplicate the ball tip shape and then drill same as store bought, thread 2BA with die, rob the spring and ball from store bought, roll the edge over and Bob's your uncle. The Zerk couplers lock on the ball tip when pressure is applied. Modify a small grease gun to pump oil. RichD ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "DA. Forsyth" notLeftBehindx~xxiwr.ru.ac.za Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:53 pm ((PST)) > Modify a small grease gun to pump oil. and LABEL it 'oil only' at every nipple, or else you end up with a huge cleaning job trying to get the grease out. David http://iwr.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/ ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:25 pm ((PST)) Actually, I was shouting!! :-)) I just - don't - have - this fixation about ZERK = GREASE. OK?? A machinist have to have an open mind.... and bank account. I thought about making the Alemite button style, but they have this problem of side entry only. No pockets for them. Oh well. Now where did I put my grease.....ah..err..Oil gun. RichD ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:18 pm ((PST)) In the absence of a 2BA die, you could single-point thread them in the lathe if you use freecutting steel, just turning the countershaft pulley by hand and leaving the clasp nuts engaged. Even with a die, many dies won't cut that close to a shoulder, so this is worth bearing in mind. Doing such a small, short thread with a die would (I imagine) require comparable if not greater skill and delicacy -- however I'm no model- maker -- at least, not for the last thirty five years. ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:32 pm ((PST)) Try turning the die wrong way round after threading as much as you can. This will get you close enough. RichD ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:45 am ((PST)) For those who, like me, don't happen to have a 2BA die, I just tried single point threading a turned-down 1/4" UNF zerk fitting, and it worked a treat. Two things to watch: the pitch is non-standard (0.81mm) and the thread included angle is very narrow at 47.5 degrees. I played around for a bit and came up (on my second attempt - fluke) with a simple changewheel geartrain (I don't have a gearbox on either of my Myfords) which is plenty near enough for such a short thread, considering it doesn't have to take any load. 21 driving 55, 50 driving 75 (no idler required). The pitch error is a shade over 0.2%, which accumulates to less than a hundredth of a mm, over the length of the zerk thread. I fiddled around a bit more just for the hell of it and came up with a more compound train which gave an error of a shade under 0.2%, so I gave up and settled for the one quoted above. I don't have a very scientific approach to computing geartrains, but it's not often that pitches come up for me which aren't on the chart, so I don't get much practice. I've got a rudimentary spreadsheet I came up with a few years back, and essentially I start from the Myford train for the nearest "kosher" pitch, and make guesses, replacing meshing pairs at a time. The spreadsheet tells me the error each time. If that fails to rise to future challenges, I'll get my own copy of "Screwcutting in the Lathe" by Cleeve. The depth of thread for the 2BA is 0.019", and the diameter to turn the previous thread down to is 0.185". The 1/4" UNF zerks (of which I found I had a packet of exactly the right quantity for my Super 7) have just enough extra diameter for the thread to clean entirely away. My zerks were plated but not hardened. I found I needed to cut back to pretty light cuts as the thread deepened, (eventually down to 0.002", from initial cut of 0.005") because there's just not enough hex to get a good grip in the chuck, and the zerk started walking out. As mentioned in my previous post, for relatively free-cutting materials you can just pull the countershaft pulley round by hand for threading really close to a shoulder like this. It's worth trying to avoid stopping part way along: I ran each cut until the left flank of the toolblank snuggled against the 'bolting face' of the zerk. No undercut required. Try doing this sort of stunt with a carbide tip and it'll last exactly one cut. Obviously to cut so close to a shoulder you need a tool which is ground with the point offcenter to the left. I ground a HSS bit up from scratch rather than modifying an existing one and having to revert it after. I mounted it on a wedge so it had a bit of top rake, which I don't normally do with threadcutting (in theory you should adjust the included angle, for one thing) but when pulling the belts round by hand you want to avoid chips jamming on the top of the tool. I decided to 'be good', and not turn a blind eye to the thread angle - fudging a 60 degree tool to cut a 55 degree thread is bad enough, but to use if for BA would be (I think) not advisable. As Rich says, the reverse side of button dies is generally designed for threading close to a shoulder. In the case of some of mine (particularly the ones of local manufacture), they're just not that well made, and still won't cut very close. Furthermore, I do find that the teeth on the 'back' side are quite prone to chipping, (I work a lot with stainless steel) so some of my damaged dies are marked to remind me not to turn them backwards. ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "DA. Forsyth" notLeftBehindx~xxiwr.ru.ac.za Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:02 am ((PST)) On 25 Jan 2008 at 10:45, tr0up murmured decisively: > Two things to watch: the pitch is non-standard (0.81mm) and the well, BA pitches are all a) weird and b) metric (-: > thread included angle is very narrow at 47.5 degrees. > I played around for a bit and came up (on my second attempt - fluke) > with a simple changewheel geartrain (I don't have a gearbox on either > of my Myfords) which is plenty near enough for such a short thread, > considering it doesn't have to take any load. > 21 driving 55, 50 driving 75 (no idler required) > The pitch error is a shade over 0.2%, which accumulates to less than > a hundredth of a mm, over the length of the zerk thread. or you can get closer with a 6 wheel arrangement. 6.583 :: Drivers 12 38 40 Driven 20 55 65 error 0.005180% 6.767 :: Drivers 12 38 50 Driven 25 55 65 error 0.005180% 7.167 :: Drivers 12 38 60 Driven 30 55 65 error 0.005180% 7.690 :: Drivers 12 38 70 Driven 35 55 65 error 0.005180% 4.500 :: Drivers 20 30 38 Driven 25 55 65 error 0.005180% 4.500 :: Drivers 20 25 50 Driven 35 40 70 error 0.006299% 5.750 :: Drivers 20 25 75 Driven 35 60 70 error 0.006299% 4.300 :: Drivers 20 38 60 Driven 50 55 65 error 0.005180% 4.000 :: Drivers 25 30 50 Driven 35 60 70 error 0.006299% 2.633 :: Drivers 30 38 40 Driven 50 55 65 error 0.005180% 3.364 :: Drivers 30 38 60 Driven 55 65 75 error 0.005180% 2.548 :: Drivers 38 40 45 Driven 55 65 75 error 0.005180% Try to use one of those sets, starting with the bottom of the list (the number at left indicates the likelyhood of fitting the banjo, smaller is more likely to fit.) > and the zerk started walking out. As mentioned in my previous post, > for relatively free-cutting materials you can just pull the > countershaft pulley round by hand for threading really close to a > shoulder like this. It's worth trying to avoid stopping part way or make a crank handle http://iwr.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/lathe/crank.html > Obviously to cut so close to a shoulder you need a tool which is > ground with the point offcenter to the left. I ground a HSS bit up > from scratch rather than modifying an existing one and having to > revert it after. like this? http://iwr.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/lathe/threading.html > As Rich says, the reverse side of button dies is generally designed > for threading close to a shoulder. In the case of some of mine > (particularly the ones of local manufacture), they're just not that > well made, and still won't cut very close. > Furthermore, I do find that the teeth on the 'back' side are quite > prone to chipping, (I work a lot with stainless steel) so some of my > damaged dies are marked to remind me not to turn them backwards. I suppose one could put a die on a surface grinder and grind a bit off, say half thread pitch, to really have a 'bottoming' die. David http://iwr.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/ ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:29 pm ((PST)) David: Nice geartrains. Verrry nice, better than the famous 21T Myford approximations. Thanks for that - if I have to cut a longer 2BA I'll know what to use! Does your solution technology use a brute force approach (eg computer randomly picks ratios and sorts them) or is there some targeting going on? ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "p_ioannidis" pioannidisx~xxtpg.com.au Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:29 am ((PST)) Re: some of the pros & cons of the Myford oil nipples. The following may only apply to suckers like me! But my suggestion below might just help someone out. Assume that the pervious owner of your Myford was and still is a moron, as was one of the previous owners of my ML7. Forgive me if I babble a bit, but I think I may have a point or two. Upon stripping my baby for restoration I found the following; A) All the oil nipples where packed with grease. B) Some moron had replaced the bushes in both of the lead screw brackets, hand wheel and rack pinion shafts with the wrong length of bushes that totally obstructed the oil holes thus not allowing proper lubrication of the shafts. C) As for the head stock pulley I can only assume that whilst the back gear was engaged in some form of operation, the chuck must have jammed under force causing the brass gear to slip freely inside the pulley, the result of which left the oil hole blocked and oil could no longer reach the shaft. I suppose it comes down to buyer beware! Back to the matter at hand, it has been suggested that the oil nipple be removed, oil then added and the oil nipple be replaced. This to me sounds very logical in that if the passage is clear and not obstructed the oil will reach its target. I would like to make a suggestion of my own lateral way of thinking that will allow very easy oiling of all but the two in the head stock (8 out of 10) I believe for the ML7. Some light but easy modification is required and a small but worth while fee of around $60.00Au, this is path I will take upon my rebuild. I intend to drill the aprons oil hole to 6mm and the rest to 3/16" and to replace the oil nipples I am using some press fit nickel plated, oil hole covers made by Adams of Coventry in UK. You can download a copy of their catalogue here: http://www.adamslube.com/ For those that are thinking what on earth is that? It looks much like the spring loaded lid you lift every now and then to top up the sight feed lubricators atop your head stock bearings. (They do a great job keeping the crap out)! I sent them an email requesting the name of distributor in Australia, within 24 hours they replied saying I should contact Alemite, and supplied me with their contact details, less than two hours after that I got an email from Alemite head office in Sidney asking how they could assist me. You've gotta love good service! I have already got 8 off product code BS 1512 (shoulder drive oil cups) - 1 for spare, and currently waiting for delivery of 2 off product code L 2540 (drive in 90 deg elbow oil caps) again 1 as a spare. That's my two cents worth as I think for my purposes the pros outweigh the cons. Regards, Peter ------- Re: The miserable oil fittings on Myfords Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:12 pm ((PST)) On the North American side, the flip top oil cups are a product, and may have been invented by, Gits Brothers. Still available widely. Many different styles are available. http://www.gitsmfg.com/gits-history.asp RichD ------- Question for Rich Dean, reservations about oil cups [MyMyford] Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:44 pm ((PST)) I'm going ahead with changing my Super 7 over to zerks (rethreaded to 2BA)- similar to your course of action. *(rationale below for anyone who might be interested in one point of view) What did you do about the nipple in the alternately fast and loose pulley on the headstock spindle? It has limited access, and the shroud on my gun won't get in there. I'm working on a variable speed DC drive which hopefully will make back- gear a very seldom thing, in which case I might leave the Myford nipple in place, (having picked one which actually passes oil !) and hang onto the original gun to remind me that the good old days were not always all that good. * I like the fact that the converted grease gun tip shroud locks like a terrier to the swell of the zerk. I personally like the idea of a pressure-fed supply chain, to send the oil through (in some cases) quite long and hopefully skinny clearance spaces, rather than relying on a combination of capillary and gravity, as oil cups do. However, in situations where this is not a problem, oil cups do have the great advantage of not needing continual replenishment. One caveat on oil cups. I infer the original poster was not going to use them to replace rotating nipples subject to centrifugal forces like the subject of the question above, but I thought it bore spelling out that they are likely to fling their contents with profligate abandon if used in such situations. ------- Re: Question for Rich Dean, reservations about oil cups Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:07 am ((PST)) tr0up, I created an Album "RichD's S7 Stuff" and placed 3 pics of the form tool, new and stock Zerks and a shot of the spindle pulley location. Also!!! a nylon adapter extention to allow oil gun use on the recessed Zerks. Nylon or similar plastic has the Zerk ball tip machined on one end, a 1/16" hole drilled thru and a force fit hole to push over the metal Zerk ball on the other end. Overall length is 1-3/8" and 3/8" diameter. Try it, you'll like it. http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyMyford/photos/browse/b9d0 [NOTE TO FILE: Of course that link is gone now. It might be in the new myfordlathes group files or ask Rich.] RichD ------- Re: Question for Rich Dean, Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:11 am ((PST)) > Try it, you'll like it. Rich, I haven't even tried it, and I love it ! What a great response, what a resourceful guy. The nylon adapter will also come in d*mn handy for the zerk I added to the rack pinion shaft on the carriage (per my photo gallery). I can't get a straight bead on it, because the oiler tube has to poke through the spokes of the carriage handwheel. The coupler snaps on just fine ... in fact, it's too much of a good thing: disconnecting it after the deed is done is a bit of a struggle. Your nylon extension should be ideal. Did you freehand the grinding of the form tool? If so, I'm doubly impressed. If I had to try and emulate it I suppose I'd set up a thin wheel, dress a radius on both corners, and make a wrap-around toolrest, (and perhaps a template) but I'm not sure I'd make half as good a job even then. Having just hit the age when my close-up vision vanished overnight, my freehand grinding skills have leapt backwards. Do you have a profile projector (eg Shadowgraph), or just great eyesight? One more question: does your nylon adapter work tolerably well for the built-in oiler nipples on the axles of the tumbler cluster gears? I had thought to drill these out and tap 2BA for zerks, but it occurred to me to check if they were hardened, and sure enough, they are. Super 7s show nice attention to detail, *except* in respect of their #%*&$ oil nipples! If the adapter works well enough here, I can be rid of my Myford oiler (it can go with the ML7 when I sell it)-- goodbye and no regrets! ------- Re: Question for Rich Dean, Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:25 pm ((PST)) tr0up, Using a bought Zerk as a test piece and a Dremel grinder with the carbide cutoff wheel and a roughed out HSS blank, it's just a matter of carving it till it fits. Precision is not needed. Looking at a box full of assorted brands I see all sorts of profiles from full balls to cone tops and radiused undersides. No big deal. The adapter was a 5 minute job. Just drill the female end for a tight fit over the Zerk heads. When I make my own Zerks, I rob the spring and ball from a bought Zerk and make the hole depth to suit the parts for a light spring pressure. When you insert the spring you can see by how much the spring sticks out what force you will have. Some springs have to be touched to the grinder to get the depth right then staking over the hole to retain the spring can also control the force. The ball cover is only there to keep dirt out, so very little force is needed to keep it closed. When oiling machine slides, don't forget that a lot of the pressure needed is to force the oil between the parts having very little clearance. Apply the pressure slowly to allow time for the oil to flow thru. RichD ------- What's wrong with Myford oil nipples and oil gun [MyMyford] Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:51 am ((PST)) For the sake of future lathe-owning generations, here's my take on this. Apologies for those who have "written this up" before now, and/or to whom this is a tedious dissection of the bleeding obvious. 1) The nipples don't have any provision to retain the coupler in close contact (unlike the glans-shaped 'zerks' commonly used with grease). 2) The internal ball is too small. This means the spring must be very small diameter. Such springs are hard to make consistent for length and for spring rate. 3) These springs, even on average, are too strong for the size of the ball. 4) The OEM (original equipment) oilgun relies on the same force for pressuring the delivery oil as for sealing against the nipple. They didn't quite get the proportions right: the sealing force is insufficient in relation to the delivery pressure. Regarding point 2) My hunch is that some of the springs are sufficiently over-length and/or over rate that they prevent the ball from opening, at the pathetic pressures the setup permits. I had one nipple which even the OEM oiler could not force oil through, and most of my nipples were impassable using an ordinary pump can. regarding points 3 and 4) Because of 3), the cracking pressure (pressure to crack the ball off its seat) is unduly high. The oil pressure inside the oilgun has to build up even higher to overcome this resistance. Due to elasticity in the lightweight body of the oiler, and resilience in the sealing arrangement, some of this excess pressure is stored. During the 'return' stroke of the oiler, when the sealing pressure against the nipple is lost, the internal pressure does not decay fast enough to match that loss. Consequently, oil spurts out. This is annoying, and environmentally hostile, because the stupid nipple guards its passageway so jealously and so officiously that the amount of oil which passes through to the parched interior is vastly inferior to that which is wasted. Even if the operator contrives to provide extra pressure while attempting to pass oil to where it's needed, there comes a time at the end of the sorry affair when that sealing pressure has to be released to move to the next unsatisfactory encounter, and at this point the stored pressure invariably induces incontinence. /End of rant. ------- Re: What's wrong with Myford oil nipples and oil gun Posted by: "mrudin99" mrudinx~xxcix.co.uk Date: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:06 am ((PST)) I was thinking of making an oiling adaptor, that depressed the ball with a central pin, rather than relying on oil pressure. That would allow all the available pressure to do something useful. Has anyone tried this? Mike ------- Re: What's wrong with Myford oil nipples and oil gun Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:08 pm ((PST)) Mike, for the few ball oilers on the lathe, adjusting the spring pressure would be the quickest thing to do. File or grind the bottom of the oiler to just expose the spring, pull it out, grind a little off, stick back in, test the ball pressure with a pointed tool and when it's just a light force to hold the hole closed, clinch the bottom hole over to retain the spring. Now they should work ok. RichD ------- Re: What's wrong with Myford oil nipples and oil gun Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:40 pm ((PST)) Mike, I think Rich is right about how to make the best of the supplied nipples -- My guess is because the ball is so small, any realistic sized pin which depressed it would block off so much of the aperture that you'd still be battling to get oil in. Zerks simply have bigger balls (?) But in defence of Myford lathes, they are sensitive and consensus- seeking, although they do need lots of affirmation. ------- Re: What's wrong with Myford oil nipples and oil gun Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:41 pm ((PST)) There is also the need to force the oil into the mechanism. Without a seal on the nipple, any attempt at pressure will only have it blow back out of the hole. Some areas, like the two points on the top of the tailstock casting are just fine with a flip up cup. A drop or two is that's needed. However, the ways and slides need pressure to get the oil into the large spaces. RichD ------- Re: What's wrong with Myford oil nipples and oil gun Posted by: "jimhawkseye" jimhawkinsx~xxmanx.net Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:27 am ((PST)) I've been trying to work out a way to get oil into the oil nipple in the S7's headstock cone pulley. There's no way that I can see to get the Myford oilgun anywhere near it without dismantling the headstock! How do you do it? ------- Re: What's wrong with Myford oil nipples and oil gun Posted by: "tr0up" tr0upx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:20 am ((PST)) Jim, My Myford oil gun tip is long and tapers down to about 1/4" diameter at the end. This easily lines up with the nipple set in at an angle to the left end of my S7's headstock cone pulley. It would continue to do so up to maybe 8mm diameter. If you have the same diameter tip, can you post a photo of the nipple you're having trouble reaching? ------- Re: What's wrong with Myford oil nipples and oil gun Posted by: "jimhawkseye" jimhawkinsx~xxmanx.net Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:47 am ((PST)) My Myford oilgun tip is 12mm dia !!! There's a pic of it on eBay. where I bought it. Presumably it's not a genuine Myford one! Jim Hawkins ------- Oil nipple query.. [MyMyford] Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:17 pm ((PDT)) A little survey here. On my S7 all the oil nipples (13) have a short 3/16" diameter straight (parallel) section on top and the hex part is 1/4" across flats. Is this the typical nipple used in the last 40 - 50 years? I'm asking because I will suggest a solution to the oiler problem that has concerned so many folks for so many years. The solution was right under our noses. Like "can't see the forest for the trees". Oiling is now a quick and neat task. No fuss and NO mess. RichD ------- Oil Nipple Query Posted by: "tr0up" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:56 am ((PDT)) Rich - Your initial query must have been created as a reply to an old and unrelated thread - I thought it deserved a topic of its own so I took the liberty of reposting it. tr0up ------- Re: Oil Nipple Query Posted by: "tr0up" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:18 am ((PDT)) Rich: My 1954ish Super 7 and my 1973ish ML7 both have the same nipples, of the dimensions you describe. I'm agog to hear your breakthrough ! {... although admittedly it's too late for me, at least on the Super 7 - I've replaced almost all of them with proper (grease-style) fittings, which the coupler locks onto. Per a previous thread, I turned them down from 1/4" SAE and single-point threaded them 2BA. I followed your smart suggestion of a snap-on nylon extension for the nipples which were hard to access directly. The only ones which are stillold school are the back-gear eccentric (I replaced it with a zerk, but my threaded body 4 jaw caught on it !) and the tumbler cluster gears, where the nipples are integral with the axles. I presently do these with the Myford oiler to remind me how lucky I am. I've also done a high-pressure grease gun adaptation to suit oil, which I haven't yet had time to write up. I'm very happy with it. Incidentally, I thoroughly recommend making up a wiper around the rear side of the saddle, to anyone who wants to lick the issue of bed lubrication for good and all. (Yet another thing I haven't yet got around to writing up). With this to stop the oil escaping by the easiest route, combined with much more extensive oilways machined under the carriage to act as long term reservoirs (per photos in my gallery on this site) and the high pressure oil gun, I get a hugely satisfying simultaneous and powerful ejection of oil all around the carriage periphery after a couple of pumps, along with any fine chips from the wiper lip which then can be removed. After putting up with the HORRIBLE Myford oil gun for decades, it makes me feel like a World Cup soccer striker every time I do it The bed then stays uniformly wet with fresh clean oil for at least three days of use. I always wipe it off before starting a new session to remove any grinding or concrete dust, and wind the carriage from end to end, which lays down a glistening, uniform golden film...} ------- Re: Oil Nipple Query Posted by: "Ruaidhri Murphy" rstjmurphyx~xxesatclear.ie Date: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:27 am ((PDT)) You folks deserve a good laugh!! As I mentioned before somewhere I am a newcomer to machine turning (although a woodturner for 30 ish years). So far I have succeeded in turning an accurate 2MT fitting, threaded to fit a boring head I already had. Wow - was I a happy bunny :) To the point - In my total ignorance I have been oiling my Super 7 by removing what I thought were the 'little covers'. No problems with fancy oil guns. Wondering what all the fuss was about. I think the correct expression is RTFM. I'll now cover myself in sack-cloth and ashes and go back to listening and learning LOL. Ruaidhrí ------- Re: Oil Nipple Query Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com Date: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:55 am ((PDT)) Ruaidhri Murphy wrote: > You folks deserve a good laugh!! I guess that is excusable from a 'woody' !! As a long time served myford lathe and mill user, my recent forays into wood work could well require sackcloth and ashes for me too - If I were brave enough to declare them. Well done in turning a good MT - you have to be doing quite a lot of things right in terms of accuracy and finish to get a good result. Bob ------- Re: Oil Nipple Query--New Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:20 pm ((PDT)) tr0up, this is a new post. I want to know if all Myford lathes are shipped with the same style oiler as described below. If this is the normal case then I have a new solution involving the old pump oiler, any new pump oiler and a fix for the existing oil nipples. All very simple and easy to do as an effective, permanent design. If the nipples are many different styles, then all bets are off. I will post some pics of my new outfit this weekend in my folder. Oil Nipple fix: The purpose is to make the ball open with a very light force. The original Myford ball oilers, nipples, are soft metal. Obviously designed for grease pumps, they are hard to open. -with a prick center punch (30* angle)(do not use a center punch) tap into the bottom nipple opening to expand the hole just enough to allow the spring to be removed. -install a new spring having 0.010" wire and ~0.085 diameter. Cut off flush with hole then cut off 1/2 coil and bend a tail to retain spring when pushed back into hole. -hold nipple in a vice and swage the hole closed as before. Now there is virtually no restriction to oil flow. The pump oiler design to follow. RichD ------- Re: Oil Nipple Query--New Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:03 am ((PDT)) I really don't understand the problem so many folk here have with Myford oil nipples. With one exception, all those on my ML7 work exactly as I would expect them to. They open easily and allow oil flow from a normal pump action oil can without any undue effort and with minimal leakage. (The exception had a broken spring under the ball so it allowed oil flow but would not reseal afterwards. I made a complete new nipple to replace it.) I tried once before to find out how mine differ from others, but got no response. Mine are spring loaded steel balls in brass canisters 1/4" diameter that are a push fit into plain holes. They do not connect to the oil can in any way; I simply hold the tip of the can against the nipple. I don't know for certain if they are original equipment, but they appear to be. Can I ask again what the "normal" troublesome oil nipple is like, and perhaps see a picture? Cliff Coggin ------- Re: Oil Nipple Query--New [MyMyford] Posted by: "tr0up" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:40 pm ((PDT)) Rich: That sounds like a great proposal. If I can dig up some suitable wire, I'll try that out on my other Myford - It'd be interesting to do a 'before and after' comparison. I'm planning to sell it, and I wasn't altruistic enough to do another run of re-threaded zerk nipples for an owner who, for all I know, might not feel inclined to keep the lube oil flowing. I would feel better if I wasn't passing on the horrors I suffered. Funny how in the days before the internet we probably all thought it was just us that had a problem - it certainly never occurred to me in those far off days to try and resolve it. ------- Re: Oil Nipple Query--New Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:38 pm ((PDT)) tr0up, there is an alternate way to mod the nipples if you like. The spring hole is barely too small to make use of a very common size spring....disposable lighters flint spring (Bic, etc). These typically are 0.090-0.095 diameter. There's enough in one spring for 4 nipples. Re-drill the hole N0. 40 (0.098) just up to where the ball is. Be very careful to not go thru. Now drop in the Bic spring and cut off flush, bend the retainer tail, insert and swage the hole edge over. Good to go. I have made several new oil nipples identical to this plan for a Sherline mill internal oiling system. That's why I got into this project. Trying to find a mini oiler, ball cover, Zerk, etc to fit in. The real beauty of the Myford nipple is the shear eaze of coupling a dripless pump oiler to it. Mean and clean. I will post pix later. RichD ------- Oil Nipple coupler solution [MyMyford] Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Thu Apr 3, 2008 4:24 pm ((PDT)) In a previous message I mentioned a better method of making the oil gun and Myford oil nipple work together easily without making a mess. The solution comes from realizing that the nipple has straight (parallel) sides and is long enough to slip a tight fitting plastic sleeve over same. I have made different examples of this and all work perfectly. The nipple is 3/16" diameter. All the units on my lathe are a uniform .1875-.1880" diameter. A bit of Nylon 3/8" rod is drilled on one end 3/16" and drilled thru 3/32". Due to the nature of Nylon and most plastics, the hole will finish undersized ensuring a tight fit on the nipple. The other end is drilled and tapped to suit your oilgun, lever pump oiler or what have you. Screw this coupler on tight, push over the nipple and pump away. Without any failure this solved the entire mess. Previously I told of the need to modify the nipples to ease the ball spring tension as they typically are unnecessarily too stiff. Additionally my coupler has a hose barb and is put on the end of a short length of thick wall vinyl tube which is adapted to the pump oiler. Now I can reach any point (under the chuck on the S7) without tilting the oiler over allowing it to leak out the vent and giving room for pump operation at any nipple angle. I hope this helps. If anyone else trys this, please give a report. All the best, RichD ------- Re: Oil Nipple coupler solution Posted by: "Tim Ostley" Tim.Ostleyx~xxgooglemail.com Date: Fri Apr 4, 2008 2:55 am ((PDT)) Dear Rich, I mentioned this sort of approach on this forum a month or so ago. A chum of mine has used a variation on this theme for three or four years by simply using a piece of clear plastic tubing (the sort used in fish tanks). I finally got around to trying it a while ago with some limited success. Firstly it depends upon the oil gun being used, some have a nipple on the end (good) others are plain ended (bad). The pressure needed on some oil nipples also varies greatly (probably depending upon the spring pressure in the nipple and the cleanliness of the oil ways). When this technique works it is brilliant, when it doesn't (the tube flies off the nipple) the mess you get from the standard Myford oil gun is a pale imitation of what happens - oil goes everywhere and at high speed. It is really bad news if it sprays over the drive belts or pulley ... Maybe the variation you mention using drilled nylon as the coupler is better - I will give it a try. Tim ------- Re: Oil Nipple coupler solution Posted by: "Rich Dean" cmsteamx~xxspeedfactory.net Date: Fri Apr 4, 2008 8:13 am ((PDT)) Tim, thin wall plastic tube is not the kind to use. There is a thick wall type and there is also a oil and fuel rated type that's thicker still. This is what I use. The Manf is Watts-Anderson-Barrows part # RUFE. Dimensions are 7/64" ID x 1/4" OD. It is transparent red in color. It is also important to make the hose barb large enough to give a good grip on the tube. Use a retaining sleeve over the tube. Before pushing on the tube slip a piece of snug fitting close coiled spring over the tube end, then push it on. Will NOT come off. The plastic coupler has to be a snug fit on the oil nipple. You have to hold it on. Yes it will pop off if your pump pressure is high. Fix the nipple springs like I explained. When all is done the oiling is very reliable and clean. RichD ------- Re: Oil Nipple coupler solution Posted by: "duncan webster" duncan.webster2x~xxntlworld.com Date: Fri Apr 4, 2008 10:58 am ((PDT)) My myford came with a Wanner oil gun, it is no trouble at all. Has a rubber seal where it fits over the nipple. As long as you put it on square it really forces oil in without leaking. probably expensive, but you have to pay for quality. ------- Re: Lubrication of ML7 [MyMyford] Posted by: "tr0up" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Thu May 22, 2008 5:51 pm ((PDT)) In MyMyfordx~xxyahoogroups.com, "mikehulme36" wrote: > Hi, I have just acquired an ML7 which is in good condition, with very little use/wear. However, I am unsure as to how much oil the drip feed oilers should allow onto the bearings. The manual does not explain what the rate of flow should be for optimum lubrication, so how much oil should I be allowing out? Many thanks, Mike < That's a really hard question to answer, which is probably why Myford didn't put it in the manual. A lot depends on how snug the bearing shells are: the closer the clearances, the more time the oil spends in the bearings before finding its way out and being wasted. Secondly, the 'duty cycle': what proportion of the time the lathe is actually running. Obviously the bigger (and simpler) the job, the higher this tends to be, and the rate needs to be temporarily increased, because at other times oil can build up during the periods when you stop to think, measure and retool. I tend to find another way to do jobs which are too big for the lathe, but not everyone has this luxury. The other main variable is the speed you run at. Depending on your motor pulley size the maximum will vary, but is pretty low on the ML7s, which (together with white metal bearings) makes them fairly miserly (mine was exceptionally miserly, and I got some flak last time I indicated on this forum how much- or rather how little - oil I got through). The acid test is whether the bearing cap starts to become excessively warm, say more than 20 deg C above ambient. This can be a sign of insufficient oil. Not many people impose huge loads for prolonged periods, but if you do run at high speed or load, the rate needs to be temporarily increased. I usually do this by cranking the valve open for a short time periodically during such periods, then closing it back to two or three clicks open on the ratchet wheel, which is where I normally run it. (Your oiler may be a different pattern) You can really only calibrate the rate by taking the oiler off the machine and keeping an occasional eye on it while you tackle (say) your email, if it's the same pattern as mine. The bottom rate I run at equates to a drip about every ten minutes when off the machine, but vibration and heat will greatly increase this rate hen the lathe is running, in a broadly appropriate direction. If I try to modulate the constant rate, it's a safe bet I'll forget to turn it off when I leave the lathe and waste a bunch of oil. Before I get flamed for my recommendations, bear in mind my bearings are still almost as tight as when my dad bought the lathe when I was a boy, thirty six years ago. This might be taken as an endorsement of my practices, but it also (as mentioned above) means they continue to use relatively little oil. YMMV - do not follow my suggestion if your circumstances differ. ------- Re: Lubrication of ML7 Posted by: "mike.crossfield" mike.crossfieldx~xxvirgin.net Date: Fri May 23, 2008 1:22 am ((PDT)) I too agonised over this when I got my first Myford a few years back. Now, with the benefit of experence of 2 ML7s and a Super 7 I think tr0up's observations are pretty well spot on. I remember discussing the topic with one of the "old hands" at Myford, and he commented that with a machine with bearings in reasonable order you need very little oil, and provided there is a drop every few minutes it will be plenty. He also added that amateurs always over-oil, which does no harm apart from wasting oil! Mike ------- Re: Lubrication of ML7 Posted by: "mikehulme36" mikehulme36x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri May 23, 2008 2:21 pm ((PDT)) Thank you both for your advice. It seems that I have erred on the side of caution, having set the flow to empty the jar in about 30 minutes (that is: 5 minutes working and another 25 working out what I have to do next!) I will adjust the flow to something more reasonable, given that I am only doing very light work with the lathe. I make bagpipes and am just turning ferrules from brass and mounts from artificial ivory and horn, so there is not much loading on the machine. I have a fairly sophisticated Ornamental Turning setup, which I acquired with the lathe and am looking forward to more complex designs in the future, as well as technical advice. I have no doubt that my next questions are not far away, so thanks again for your help. Mike ------- Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question [MyMyford] Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Mon Jun 9, 2008 7:06 am ((PDT)) Good Morning, A relative term because it is about 40 degrees C with the humidex here in Ottawa this morning. First, thanks for the kind responses to my question, a few months ago, about NUTO equivalent motor oils. Life's cyclical embuggerances prevented me from saying thanks earlier. Tomorrow on the occasion of the anniversary of my annual progression towards death, I shall spend the day in my nice cool cellar, finishing the installation of my S7B. I shall flush the gearbox with diesel, refill with oil, lube everything else and do final levelling with a test bar in a chuck. I have a very stupid, but genuine, query about oil guns. I have 15 other lathes, all smaller, and the Myford is the only one to have oil nipples and need an oil gun. Two oil guns came with my apparently famous second- hand "Lautard lathe", which BTW is one of the very last small-bores and has only a dozen hours of spindle time. Question 1 - The first oil gun is a wobbly black plastic affair. This is the much-derided Myford item, ja? It seems straightforward. Unscrew the end cap, fill with oil, place on nipple and pump. However, I have a second such gadget, nicely made in steel and brass, which appears to be the replacement. Question 2 - How does one fill one of these metal types? The end cap of this oiler has five holes to relieve pressure as the piston moves. I gather the drill is to unscrew the forward cap, on which the injector mechanism is mounted, push down the piston and top up with oil. Question 3 - How can you tell when enough oil has been injected into the nipples on the lathe? Does excess oil squirt out around the nipple? I hope these questions are not too juvenile. Obviously I want to be sure that my baby is getting enough oil, and books have been written on what Myford does not say in its instructions. Andrew Webster ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "Keith New" britfix70054x~xxwaitrose.com Date: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:28 pm ((PDT)) Andrew: Greetings from unseasonably warm Sheffield. We got up to about 80 deg F (27 deg C) here this afternoon. Soon after I bought my trusty nineteen fifties vintage S7, I bought a grease gun of the telescopic pump-action type from the local branch of Halford's, the only car parts supermarket chain in England. It looks something like this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lumatic-Ngus-Telescopic-Grease- 135cc/dp/B0001P0DVK The hole in its aluminium business end was slightly too small to fit Myford nipples on purchase so I hand taper-reamed it until it just fitted over the nipples. Inside the nozzle is a rubber sheet washer with a small hole in it which when the nozzle is firmly planted onto the nipple with your left hand stops it leaking in all directions when you press the main body of the gun down with the palm of your right hand. If that makes sense? Hard to descibe in words. As you pump, watch the bearing or sliding surface the nipple is lubricating. If you are doing it right and the oil ways aren't bunged up with s*it, you should after a few seconds see oil appearing round the sides. Stop and with the nozzle still pressed hard on the nipple, pull the piston back so no oil pressure is being exerted otherwise oil will shoot out in all directions when you disengage the pump from the nipple. Works for me. Keith ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:40 am ((PDT)) Keith, Many thanks for the reply. The black plastic affair that came with the lathe looks like the one you mentioned. The nicer metal one is a similar pattern. Here is why I am confused. The business ends are simply concave with an oil hole in the centre. It does not begin to fit around the nipples. No rubber grommets. Apparently the idea is to place the device vertically over the oil nipple and pump like hell. Yesterday I sourced some Nuto from an Esso distributor (in a 4 litre can! :-) )and gave the metal oiler a try. It squirts oil effectively, but I can't tell whether the stuff is actually getting past the little ball in the nipples, and inside. In particular there is no way I can check the lubrication of the left hand spindle bearing. Naturally the stuff dribbles copiously off the nipple but how much, if any, gets inside? This seems a very dodgy way to lubricate a machine, especially when the manufacturer specifies probably the best spindle oil you can get. Remember that these came with the machine. There is also a bloody great Alumite 500 GREASE gun which was never used. This DOES fit properly over the nipples. Manufacturer's web page : http://www.alemite.com/catalog/details.aspx? identifier=guns_professional Question #1: Do other Myford owners use these concave end oilers, or do they have proper ones which fit around the nipple? Question #2: Is the preferred idea to oil a Myford with a grease gun loaded with OIL? Andrew ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:47 am ((PDT)) At 14:40 11/06/2008, you wrote: >Question #1: Do other Myford owners use these concave end oilers, or >do they have proper ones which fit around the nipple? I have just recently replaced all of the oil nipples on my ML7 with new ones - Myford will sell you a pack of 10 of them for not very much (picked mine up at the Harrogate show). The old ones had seen a bit of wear & didn't seal nicely against the oil gun. The new ones seal a lot better; as someone else has said, you pump the oil till you can see it coming out between the saddle and the bed, or whatever. Myford sell a rather better gun these days too - not cheap, but it does actually work without pissing oil everywhere. It also has a nozzle that is narrow enough to reach the nipple on the pulley cluster; others that I have seen simply don't get in there. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:56 am ((PDT)) Txs Tony, I have just put some Nuto in the big lever-action Alemite grease gun. Damned stuff leaks out everywhere due to viscosity...the gun is obviously meant for grease only. Looks like, if I can't solve this problem locally, I'll have to order one of these things from Myford and pay air mail. Ouch! Andrew ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "G Bennett" gbennettx~xxshaw.ca Date: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:37 pm ((PDT)) Hi Andrew, et al I've been looking at the 'oil gun' that came along with the parts to my Myford S7b and haven't even tried to open it yet. I'm still working on replacing the motor's junction box (different tale). Thanks for all of the info and warnings. Direct quote: "How to make an oil gun - a really good one - in less than an hour. (This gun is a dream come true for Myford lathe owners, as it completely replaces the leaky, ineffectual oil gun supplied with these fine lathes. Even getting a full dose of oil into the main headstock pulley, for back gear operations, becomes a piece of cake!)" Found this on: http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BK1173 (the only comercial site I've found this for sale on). Guy is another Canadian out here on the cold west coast. His web site is at http://www.lautard.com/index.html Cheers, Graham Bennett ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:37 am ((PDT)) Graham, txs for reminding me about the Lautard piece on making an oil gun. This would cost me $10 in an envelope versus $60 for the Myford oil gun (before air mail and haggling with Myford's sometimes indifferent sales department). So I shall probably try making one. Meanwhile I have found in Ottawa for $5.99 a Pakistani made all-metal grease gun from "Groz". It's dodgy but works when filled with Nuto, and can only be considered a stop-gap for a few weeks. I shall buy a second one and reduce the business end so I can oil the back-gearing. WARNING: I have learned the hard way that, over the past several years, the vast majority of small grease guns have come from China. These are rotten quality, plastic, disposable, and pre-filled with particularly nasty grease. It is getting quite difficult to find a nipple-type grease gun that is half-decent, empty, refillable, and will hold a very thin spindle oil. I have now got my S7 levelled and will post some images of the installation, and the offending oiling devices, this week if possible. Essentially I have build a very space-conscious wall storage unit which adds stability to a heavy platform under the octagonal stand; the steadiness of the wall is used to dampen movement of the floor. Everyone - Any other comments on oiling remain appreciated. The ones so far have helped a great deal. Andrew Webster ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "durnfjmx~xxaol.com" durnfjmx~xxaol.com Date: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:56 am ((PDT)) I'm afraid I gave up with the greasegun type oilers many gears ago, having never found one that would push oil into a nipple without spraying everywhere. I have become a "squirt it on and hope that it gets to the right places" type of operator, using Nuto in a standard type of oil can. I clean the S7B down fairly carefully and squirt the oil around after (almost) every turning session - being particularly careful when working cast iron. I guess ultimately time will tell, but up to now (20 years-ish) all seems OK. MikeD ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:25 am ((PDT)) Mike, I now strongly suspect that the original owner of my S7 was of a similar mind as you. His kit included a very nice US-made pump type oil can, which I discovered full of Nuto! So you can adequately oil the back spindle bearing? Anything to note about this? BTW - I have just sloughed off some money-making computer work to fit the nozzle from the expensive Alemite lever-action grease gun onto the $5.99 Groz grease gun. I can tighten this around the nipple and, with a turn anticlockwise, release when finished. Now I have no more horizontal oil events. Andrew ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "durnfjmx~xxaol.com" durnfjmx~xxaol.com Date: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:12 am ((PDT)) Well, I don't really know about the back spindle brearing for sure, but I do squirt oil around and about it periodically, and as I said - hope it gets to into the right places. The S7B lathe is of a 1965 vintage, and I have had it since the mid '80s in which time I have built 4 stationary steam engines, 3 Sterling engines, 1 ic engine, 2 clocks, a 3 1/2" loco a Quorn t&c grinder and goodness knows how many other pieces of workshop equipment and bits and pieces for boats, cars, lawnmowers, etc., etc., - so not a production line, but fairly well and regularly used, and I can detect no wear in this bearing so far. I'm not necessarily advocating the slop-it-on-and-hope principle, just saying that it appears to be working adequately for me, up till now anyway. MikeD ------- Re: Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question Posted by: "Keith New" britfix70054x~xxwaitrose.com Date: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:02 pm ((PDT)) Andrew Since amending the grease gun so it fits over the nipple, it works by the hole in the aluminium concave bit on the end guiding the gun onto the nipple so the hole in the rubber grommet/washer centres over the ball valve. The grommet appears to be acting as an oil seal on the end face of the nipple hence pressure is first applied on the piston with your left hand, so the seal is nice and tight against the nipple face. Then when you press on the other end of the gun with your right hand, oil is prevented from leaking out by the pressure applied by your left hand. Oil should not appear round the nipple at all if you do it right. Where it SHOULD appear is on the slideway or bearing. Make sure your nipple's ball valves are moving - pressing a steel ruler or thickish feeler gauge blade flat against the ball should make them retract flush with the end face of the nipple. You should be able to feel the spring behind the ball pressing against the ruler. If not, replace the nipple(s). Keith ------- new ML7 owner [MyMyford] Posted by: "Chris Abbott" bobcattx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Sat Aug 9, 2008 8:20 am ((PDT)) Hi, I bought a 1952 vintage ML7 & some accessories a couple of weeks ago. The fellow who owned it did not have the manual for reference and used grease instead of oil in all of the fittings. Luckily, he used the lathe very little so there is no apparent damage. I'm intending to strip down the machine and replace most/all of the oil fittings in the process. I believe these are original to the machine, so I am assuming they are still 2BA threaded rather than having been replaced by inch-threaded equivalents (Whitworth & BA thread gauges are on order from the UK). LatheSpares.co.uk is selling 3 different styles of oil fitting (one of which is a press fit), Myford also sells their p/n 33/072 fittings, and I'd like to choose the best replacements I can. There was no Myford-style oiler tool in the collection. I'd like to be able to use the positive 'locking' feature of Zerk-style fittings (if possible) in conjunction with a modified grease gun. Without tapping the castings for a different thread, what is the best option remaining in terms of replacement oil fittings? regards, Chris Ontario, Canada ------- Re: new ML7 owner Posted by: "G Bennett" gbennettx~xxshaw.ca Date: Sat Aug 9, 2008 11:06 am ((PDT)) Hi Chris, Have a look at the thread "Newbie S7 Oil Gun Question" started around the beginning of June. It has some good info to start with. Cheers, Graham Victoria, Canada ------- Re: new ML7 owner Posted by: "tr0up" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Sat Aug 9, 2008 7:06 pm ((PDT)) Chris If I could single out one thing I've done to a Myford which more than anything else left me alternately crying "Halleluyah" and "why didn't I do this thirty years ago !!!" It's been doing exactly what you propose. I have posted on rethreading 1/4" SAE (ie UNF) grease nipples to 2BA: search for post # 2987, entitled "The miserable oil fittings on Myfords". Ready-made 2BA zerks are also available in - of all places - the US from http://www.britishfasteners.com/mm5/merchant.mvc? Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BTF&Product_Code=4240&Category_Code=300 If you want to be thoroughly confused by lots of great ideas: Search on this forum also for these threads: -Oil Nipple Query (circa Msg # 3430) -Post #2952 and many other excellent posts by Rich Dean on the topic (he made his own grease nipples from scratch, but acknowledges that case hardened steel would have been better) -Question for Rich Dean, reservations about oil cups (Msg # 3000) in fact, search for anything with the words "Nipple" "2BA" or "zerk" or "miserable" ! I've done a different oil gun adaptation which I personally find satisfactory, where I got around the problem of the gun leaking when not in use, by supplying oil from a converted drink bottle (held upside down) through clear flexible tubing in the manner of a hospital intravenous drip: the gun itself has no reservoir: I cut the tank at an angle to make a handle, and made a flange out of plastic with an integral tube 'barb' tail. Said flange is trapped between what used to be the tank and the head of the gun. (Which is a Groz pattern trigger-action mini grease gun, intended for one handed operation.) Rather than post photos here of my grease gun adaptation using a separate container for the oil, I posted them on photobucket where they can be accessed without signing up to anything http://tinyurl.com/6e7el8 and two others in the same album. Here's a tinyurl link to the other photo which you might need to look at to work out what the idea is with the gun adaptation http://tinyurl.com/56m52u The reason for using a pump-bottle type drink bottle is that it makes it easy to engineer a leak-free hose fitting, by substituting a home- made hose tail (barbed) for the central part of the drinking teat/shutoff valve. The comments section of the photos should be read for further clarification (he said hopefully). ------- Re: new ML7 owner Posted by: "Keith New" britfix70054x~xxwaitrose.com Date: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:15 am ((PDT)) Chris Replacement oil nipples/zerks are available over this side of the pond here: http://www.lathespares.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_8 Regards Keith Sheffield ------- Re: new ML7 owner Posted by: "Chris Abbott" bobcattx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:42 pm ((PDT)) "tr0up" wrote: > It's been doing exactly what you propose. Thanks! It's nice to know that I'm on the right track. My lathe is old enough to have the "classic" nipples as shown on the Lathespares.co.uk site. http://tinyurl.com/5lwhfc I do not want to replace my existing fittings with identical components. > I have posted on rethreading 1/4" SAE (ie UNF) grease nipples to > 2BA: search for post # 2987, entitled "The miserable oil fittings > on Myfords" That's good to know. I picked up a 5 piece pkg of the 1/4-28" threaded Zerks from Canadian Tire ($4 CAD). The spring loaded balls seem very hard to actuate compared to the classic Myford offering, however, a standard grease gun will lock onto them and there is plenty of shank material to allow for re-threading down to 2BA. > Ready-made 2BA zerks are also available in - of all places - the US $1.50 USD each. Might be worth it in the end. Probably sourced from the UK just like their BA spanner sets :-). > If you want to be thoroughly confused by lots of great ideas: > in fact, search for anything with the words "Nipple" "2BA" > or "zerk" or "miserable" ! I've looked them up. Confusion reigns! :-) Thanks for the tips. I'm convinced that the Zerk style fittings are the way to go. Before purchasing the Myford, I researched the problems that owners talked about (online) and lubrication was always a prime concern. I picked up a one-hand operable, mini grease gun and 9" flexible hose ($12.69 + $9.99 CAD) which, with some modifications, should allow for successful delivery of oil to all locations save the back gear and cone pulley assy on the spindle. I may be able to turn down the body of the locking nose to allow for access to these locations. Thanks - found the photos. Nicely done. I picked up a one-hand operable, mini grease gun and 9" flexible hose ($12.69 + $9.99 CAD x~xx Canadian Tire) which, with only small modification, should allow for successful delivery of oil to all locations save the back gear and cone pulley assy on the spindle. I may be able to turn down the grease nose to allow for access to these locations. The kicker is that my lathe is in pieces, in storage, off-site. It has to stay that way until I can move into a house with a proper workshop space (this fall?). It's very frustrating, as you might imagine. I just couldn't pass up the tremendous deal on the lathe and accessories. Went over to the storage area today to fondle the parts and make sure everything has a protective coating of way oil, even though the facility is climate controlled. ChrisA ------- Oil Gun Supplier Canada or North America [MyMyford] Posted by: "dmac_dexter" dmac_dexterx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Nov 8, 2008 7:46 am ((PST)) My ML7 oil gun, presumably original 1952, leaks and works intermittently. The cover often falls off covering everything with oil. Does anyone know of a Canadian or North American supplier for this oil gun or is there a generic oil gun available? I need one ASAP so I can't wait for one to ship from the UK, much less afford high cost of over $80CAD from Myford not including shipping. ------ Re: Oil Gun Supplier Canada or North America Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:05 am ((PST)) I modified a Canadian Tire pistol-pump type grease gun (Mini Grease Gun Product #28-2714-6, $12.69 unless on sale). The modification was to remove the plunger and epoxy a bolt into the hole. The revised gun works except that it is impossible to attach the fitting onto the pulley nipple, it is difficult to remove the fitting from some nipples, the gun must be held upside down in order to feed oil so the trigger doesn't fit the hand and it leaks. On my recent trip to England I splurged on a new Myford 15472 oiler for about £37 at the Midlands MES. It works a treat compared to the Canadian Tire oiler. ------- Re: Oil Gun Supplier Canada or North America Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:59 am ((PST)) All, this whole issue was discussed at length recently. I found the actual problem to be the oilers (nipples) springs are typically much too strong to allow fluid to pass easily. Fix the spring tension and any good trigger oiler with a simple plastic adapter that slips over the nipple works perfectly. Fixing the nipples is done by tapping a center punch into the back end to expand the opening previously clinched over to retain the spring. Remove spring, cut off a turn and replace. Check to see if the ball is now held closed lightly. Reclinch and away you go. My (new) oiler has a vinyl 6" tube with the adapter. Hold the connection with on hand and oil can in the other. Toss the Myf oil gun. RichD ------- Re: Oil Gun Supplier Canada or North America Posted by: "tomservo_9504" tomservo_9504x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:13 am ((PST)) Along the Canadian Tire line of oil guns, there are some cheap trigger- style oilers with metal, pointy tips. They fit right into the oil nipples, and if you hold them against it with slight force, don't leak much, if at all. I think I gave all of $4.99 each for them. I've got one for spindle oil, another for way oil, and one for cutting oil. You can probably find the part number if you do some searching. My Myford does not have an oiler hole on the gear train, is this common on older models? ------- Re: Oil Gun Supplier Canada or North America Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:59 pm ((PST)) I'm unsure of your exact meaning of "oiler hole on the gear train". My S7 has an oil fitting in the hub of the headstock pulley on the left side and on the bearing. ------- Re: Oil Gun Supplier Canada or North America Posted by: "tomservo_9504" tomservo_9504x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:17 am ((PST)) Sorry - I meant on the spindle pulley. I've seen pictures (and indeed the Myford diagram in the manual) showing an oil nipple on this pulley, but my lathe does not seem to have one. So I've just been goosing it with oil when I oil the machine, and trying to work it in as best I can. ------- Re: Oil Gun Supplier Canada or North America Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:30 am ((PST)) Some ML7s do not have the oil nipple on the right face of the pulley. Instead they have a grub screw set in the middle pulley which you have to remove in order to pump a squirt of oil to lubricate the back gear bearing. When you put the grub screw back, don't drive it in too far or it will lock onto the spindle. Its only purpose is to seal the oil hole. Cliff Coggin ------- Headstock Oil [MyMyford] Posted by: "brassclockwheel" brassclockwheelx~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:25 am ((PST)) Does anyone know if there is there an alternative to the oil supplied by Myford for headstock bearings on the ML10. Thanks Paul ------- Re: Headstock Oil Posted by: "davisbrandapsx~xxaol.com" davisbrandapsx~xxaol.com Date: Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:32 am ((PST)) Hello, I use oils from Hallett oils: www.hallettoil.co.uk Regards Bruce Davis ------- Re: Headstock Oil Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com Date: Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:44 am ((PST)) Most oil manufacturers will have an equivalent to Esso Nuto H32 It is nowt special. you will almost certainly need to buy 20l or perhaps 5l at a time. You might get offered a synthetic variant, but there is no need for this expense though. RS carry Castrol Hyspin aws32 for £12/5l or £47/20l both plus vat. Let me know if you want help ordering it -- I have an account which delivers free in UK Bob ------- Re: Headstock Oil Posted by: "peterscott147" peterx~xxpjscott.freeserve.co.uk Date: Tue Dec 9, 2008 11:24 am ((PST)) Buck & Hickman sell Castrol Hyspin AWS 32 for £8.97 + VAT for 5 litres. And they have more branches than RS so may have one near you. See http://www.buckandhickman.com/find/keyword-is- castrol+Hyspin+/product-is-165106 Peter ------- Re: Headstock Oil Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com Date: Tue Dec 9, 2008 11:28 am ((PST)) Thats interesting Peter and a good price. I searched on Buck & Hickmans site first -- must try harder!! ------- Re: Headstock Oil Posted by: "duncanwebster" duncan.webster2x~xxntlworld.com Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:59 am ((PST)) This is 32 grade hydraulic oil, I used to get mine from Rock Oil in Warrington, they would sell it by the litre. Recycled oil is perfectly good for this application, it only goes through once, and branded oils contain a lot of recycled anyway. ------- Cutting Fluid taking paint off my ML7 ?? [MyMyford] Posted by: "robert177129" bobmeadx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:16 pm ((PST)) Hello all I have been using Rocol multisol diluted 20:1 for some 3 years with no problems on my other lathe, so when I started using my Ml7 I used same on it as well. To my dismay it has softened the paint to such an extent that you can scrape it off with your finger nail? Has anyone else experienced anything like this? I was thinking of giving it a lick of new paint in the summer. I always clean the lathe after use and use a compressor and blowgun to clear all the nooks and crannies. It has not affected the paint on the base and stand. I believe these were purchased later. Is the myford paint advertised on ebay ok with coolant fluids? Sorry for the numerous questions but if i have to re paint it I only want to do it once. Thanks to all in advance Bob ------- Cutting Fluid taking paint off my ML7 ?? Posted by: "duncanwebster" duncan.webster2x~xxntlworld.com Date: Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:56 am ((PST)) Using compressed air to clean any machine tool is not good practice; it can drive dirt and swarf into bearings, and into your eye if you're unlucky. Far better is to make up an adaptor for a vacuum cleaner (the type with a cyclone to stop the big bits before they reach the filter). My high tech adaptor consists of a 6" length of 22mm copper water pipe driven though a rubber bung which fits the end of the vacuum cleaner pipe, with the other end flattened so that it fits into the tee slots. When machining MDF and brass I have been known to clamp the vac pipe near the tool so that the rubbish is sucked away immediately. ------- Re: Cutting Fluid taking paint off my ML7 ?? Posted by: "gwinspur" gwinspurx~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:20 am ((PST)) I re-painted my S7 some years ago with Myford's own touch-up enamel. The finish has worn quite well until recently when I noticed a deterioration on the tailstock -- loss of shine and soiling. I'm inclined to blame the otherwise excellent PR88 hand cream I use but obviously this is unproven. I almost never use soluble oil on my Myford and prefer to stick to neat cutting oil. I, too, use a vacuum to clean the lathe. George ------- Cutting Fluid taking paint off my ML7 ?? Posted by: "robert177129" bobmeadx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:27 am ((PST)) Thanks for reply Duncan. I use an old Draper wet and dry vac but can't use it when cutting or all my fluid will end up in vac and not the recirculating tank? Good point about the compressed driving dirt and swarf into bearings. Will invest in extra kitchen towels to dry off afterwards. Regards Bob ------- Cutting Fluid taking paint off my ML7 ?? Posted by: "Norman Atkinson" ravensworth2674x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:12 am ((PST)) Nothing to do with MyMyford! This is pure re-finishing of painted surfaces. You remove all the crap to a point where the undercoats will adhere again. Then fill and re-finish. Go into your proper paint supplier for industrial paints and consult him. None of your Woolworths Best lark. Question, would you re-touch your Sunday car with cheap shite paint? Do remember that paints are made for machine tools and that they have to stand far more chemicals than your car. And the nearest to Myford Grey id Iron Grey to RAL 7011. Sorry, but there really is no 'Instant Sunshine'solution to a lasting answer. Rolls Royce used to put on 22 coats of primer and 14 coats of finish -- hand brushed and rubbed down each second coat. Norman ------- Re: Cutting Fluid taking paint off my ML7 ?? Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:33 am ((PST)) I find a good thick layer of oily crud makes a wonderful preservative for my ML7. Cliff Coggin ------- Front Bearing Lubrication [MyMyford] Posted by: "piedrj" otebgnx~xxcore.com Date: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:23 pm ((PST)) Hi, I know that the front bearing uses very little lubrication. It seems that a full oiler lasts forever. Is there some way to tell if the lubrication system is set up correctly? What are your experiences as to the amount of oil you use on the front bearing? I know it depends on use, but I am talking lots of parts. Thanks Bob ------- Re: Front Bearing Lubrication Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:22 pm ((PST)) Bob, I'm assuming yours is the tapered bronze bush type with ball thrust bearing at the left end and has the oil cup on the front of the casting. Get the manual out and find the instructions for adjusting the spindle. You must understand there has to be room for an oil film between the parts of a friction bearing. With the correct oil and bearing clearance adjustment, your headstock should get only warm to the touch after operating for several minutes. A final check is to set up an indicator on top of the spindle nose and lift the spindle with a bar. You should see no less than .001" (.024mm) of movement. This is the clearance for oil film. The oil should be used. If you actually have a dry bearing, it will begin to heat and eventually seize. The best way to check your lube system is to remove the spindle and ckeck the wick that presses on the bottom of the spindle. It should be saturated with oil. The spindle adjustment can be changed according to the class of work required. The directions are very specific on adjustment. Understand how it works, what is happening, and what the outcome should be. RichD ------- Re: Front Bearing Lubrication Posted by: "piedrj" otebgnx~xxcore.com Date: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:51 pm ((PST)) Rich, Thanks for the info, yes it is tapered bearing. I have owned the lathe since 1982, it was new in 1981. The original owner did not like it, most of attachments were still in shipping crate. I really have no problem with heat or anything. Run it for many hours and barely warm to the touch. I went through all the setup stuff about 5 years ago for the first time since I did the setup when I got it originally, and it seemed just fine. It just always seemed that it used very little oil. I took the spindle out once many years ago when the belt broke. Have no idea why it just broke as if it was cut. Belts still look like new. The spindle and bearing looked like new, no sign of wear. Again thanks, I was just asking as I have just moved my shop and everything was down for several years. I am just getting everything going re oiling, leveling,, etc. The spindle oil item occurred to me and I thought I might ask. Now if I can fix the leaky quick change box, it must be from where it bolts to the bed, looks like a lot of effort to take it off and then see what is going on. Bet there is some seal in there leaking. Have a nice Christmas Bob ------- Re: Front Bearing Lubrication Posted by: "alan4227" a.j.moorex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:53 am ((PST)) If there isn't an obvious leak from one of the shaft end bushes then it is almost certainly coming from where the bottom mounting bolt goes through the gearbox casing into the lathe bed. There is supposed to be a small rubber washer around the bolt, but it might have got damaged or been omitted. It is not difficult to remove the gearbox - you have to take off the leadscrew first. When I took the gearbox off my newly-acquired Super 7 a few months ago I found a 1/2 inch Whitworth nut in the sludge of ages at the bottom. Merry Christmas, Alan ------- Re: Gearbox oil [MyMyford] Posted by: "heathgloucester" ebs7x~xxovb.org.uk Date: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:19 pm ((PST)) >> Hi Guys i'm a new myford owner, i just purchased a 1958 Ml7, I'm >> the fourth owner,have a copy of the original receipt, $348 Canadian >> dollars in 1958. The lathe was sold to a Technical college in >> Halifax Nova Scotia. I have 3 other lathes, a shaper and 2 milling >> machines, guess you could say I'm a machine addict. When I brought >> the lathe into the basement, some oil escaped from it I imagine it >> came from the gearbox. Can anyone tell me what type of oil goes in >> the gearbox. >> Thanks in advance >> Wayne BEWARE: Early versions of the official manual for the Myford Quick Change Gearbox actually specify SAE30 or ISO VG68. Later manuals, such as that in the files section of this group, specify Esso Febis K68 (which also meets the ISO VG68 specification). Esso Nuto H32 should ONLY be used for FLUSHING the gearbox. Edward (in UK) ------- Oil Gun [MyMyford] Posted by: "dnaman43" mevagissyx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:43 pm ((PST)) There was a discussion here a while back about the availability of oil guns for use with the ML7 etc. I'd been toying with the possibility of converting a regular grease gun for the purpose and in digging around the internet found an article on doing exactly that at: http://www.omgtr.ca/technical/highpressureoiler/highpressureoiler.htm It looks simple enough and might, perhaps, be simplified even more. For example, I don't really see the point in retaining the original rubber plunger parts at all. Plugging the hole in the end cap should be trivial and the plumber's tape alone should seal it Ok (he's relying on that at every other joint). ------- Re: Oil Gun Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:18 pm ((PST)) dnaman, I have been that route. I gave up the mess and trying to seal it up, etc. What it all comes down to is the real problem is the oil nipples on the machine. The spring tension on the tiny ball seal is way too strong making it very difficult to pump oil thru by any means. A simple adjustment of the spring to lighten the tension until the ball is held closed, but not much more. Remove the nipple. With a center punch tap it into the open end to spread the swaged hole open to allow the spring to be extracted just enough to clip off a turn(s) until the ball is only lightly held closed. Swage to close just enough to retain the spring. Then I developed a new type oil coupler using a typical lever (trigger) pump oiler and a plastic or metal (with o-ring seal) coupler that just slips onto the nipple. No leaks at all and little effort. You can oil up the whole lathe in seconds. The coupler is best attached to a thick walled vinyl tube. One hand holds the coupler on the nipple, the other holds the oiler pump. The coupler can be a piece of nylon drilled to be a push on fit on the nipple. The other end to make a tight slip on nipple for the vinyl tube. On the metal version, I included a ball check valve to keep drips to a minimum. An oiler can like this one will work well: Item: 36629-1VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36629 The vinyl tube is heavy wall 1/4" OD RC fuel line. RichD ------- Re: Oil Gun Posted by: "Francois CAU" Francois.CAUx~xxst.com Date: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:42 am ((PST)) Hi all, On the same subject, I recently ordered this oil can from RHR in the UK: http://www.rhrtools.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&c\ Path=11&products_id=204 Does anybody has got any experience with this type of oiler ? Cheers, Francois ------- Re: Oil Gun Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:21 am ((PST)) That matches the type of oil can I use on my ML7. It works a treat, though I must admit I do not have standard oil nipples. Cliff Coggin ------- Re: Oil Gun Posted by: "rrh0001" tzamx~xxmac.com Date: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:47 am ((PST)) I have an ML7 with Zerk fittings and an S7 with Myford oil fittings. I had oil evreywhere but in the lathe until I modified the traditional grease gun as detailed by Guy Lautard in his Treatise on Oiling Machine Tools. (The link is: http://lautard.com/oiling.htm Now - no problems whatsoever. The oil goes where it should. Ramsay ------- Re: Oil Gun Posted by: "mdavidlem" mdavidlx~xxchilkoot.demon.nl Date: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:29 pm ((PST)) In MyMyfordx~xxyahoogroups.com, "grampys2002" wrote: > Hi There > I have posted a photo of my oil gun in Grampas stuff. I have been > following the discussion on this subject and was surprised at the > amount of interest. If it is so difficult to get a decent oil gun I > would as a stupid question. If a company manufactures oil nipples > wouldn't they also manufacture an oil gun? Maybe this is the reviled > Myford gun. > When I bought my used lathe 20 years ago it did not come with an oil > gun so I slopped oil around as best I could. One day while greasing the > live end sprocket on my chain saw with the said grease gun I had a > eureka moment. I cleaned out the grease from the gun filled it with oil > and I have been using it ever since. I guess necessity is the mother of > invention. Providing I keep the gun aligned with the nipples I get > very little leakage. With a little ingenuity and a few hours on the > Myford I think you could make one of the guns very easily. > To each his own but for me this simple gun has worked well for the last > 20 years. > Regards David Great that it works well for you. I have both the old and new Myford oil gun. In their natural state they suck and that's why this topic comes along once every often (I'm a regular reader but this is my first post). Anyway, I think Chris Heapy came up with a trick that works like a charm and it might even improve the minimal leakage on your grease/oil gun. Just put a piece cloth or shop paper towel between the nozel and the nipples. Works great. Even my old and new Myford oilers pump 'liters' of oil with hardly any leakage. Seriously, with a piece of papertowel I can really put the pressure on and oil the ways or the bearings till the oil seeps out with no leakage at the nozzle of the guns. Dutch David ------- NOTE TO FILE: This thread goes on a bit further but is repetitious of earlier discussions as already found above here in this file, see June 2008. ------- New ML7 Owner [MyMyford] Posted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.com Date: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:46 am ((PST)) Greetings. I recently acquired a 1973 vintage ML7. I live in Bethesda, Maryland, which is just outside the city of Washington. I had been looking for a used Myford for years and they are not very common here in the States. I located my lathe in Medford, Oregon, which is 2811 miles from my house. Even with the cost of freight, I think I got a fair deal. The lathe had sat unused since its original owner died in the crash of his private plane in 2000. It is decently equipped with 3 and 4 jaw chucks, faceplates, Dixon tool holder, factory installed clutch, leadscrew hand wheel, several Myford patent collets, original stand and various sundries. I ordered some replacement missing parts from Myford, as well an oil gun. I've cleaned the lathe up and it performs nicely. Now a couple of questions and comments: 1. Can someone give me some instructions on how to properly adjust my drip oilers. Mine have a spring loaded needle valve which is closed/opened by a "lever" at the top. How do I set them up to work properly? I understand the drip concept, but how to I properly set them up, tension, tightening of threaded nut and the two threaded pieces under the lever, etc. 2. How do I use the oil gun and nipples so the oil goes into the lathe instead of spilling all over the outside of the lathe? I'm going to guess I'm not the first person to ask that question. Personaly, I don't "get" the nipple system. It seems like there has to be a better oil system. Thanks in advance for any and all support. Jonathan Bethesda, Maryland USA ------- Re: New ML7 Owner Posted by: "DA. Forsyth" notLeftBehindx~xxiwr.ru.ac.za Date: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:08 am ((PST)) On 25 Feb 2009 at 17:46, jwgott1 murmured decisively: > Greetings. I recently acquired a 1973 vintage ML7. I live in > Bethesda, Maryland, which is just outside the city of Washington. I > had been looking for a used Myford for years and they are not very > common here in the States. I located my lathe in Medford, Oregon, welcome to the club (-: > which is 2811 miles from my house. Even with the cost of freight, I wow. I borrowed a small trailer and fetched mine, all of 130km away. > 1. Can someone give me some instructions on how to properly adjust my > drip oilers. Mine have a spring loaded needle valve which is > closed/opened by a "lever" at the top. How do I set them up to work > properly? I understand the drip concept, but how to I properly set > them up, tension, tightening of threaded nut and the two threaded > pieces under the lever, etc. I don't know those ones, mine are 10 years older and only have an adjustable needle valve, which are now worn to the point where they are open or closed.... > 2. How do I use the oil gun and nipples so the oil goes into the > lathe instead of spilling all over the outside of the lathe? I'm > going to guess I'm not the first person to ask that question. > Personaly, I don't "get" the nipple system. It seems like there has > to be a better oil system. You have to remake the end of the oil gun. It needs a pocket into which an O ring fits, such that the nipple pushes into the middle of the ring and seals it off against the pump pressure... I'd do this if my oil nipples weren't so abused that nothing will ever seal against them. I oil by unscrewing each nipple and placing my oil cans spout against the screw thread edge. Not ideal, but it works until I come up with a new plan. But first make sure the oil passageways are not blocked with grease, because if they are you will never get oil down there. There are NO grease points on an ML7. If you haven't got a manual, you need to get one to see the lube chart. David ------- Oil Gun Follow-Up [MyMyford] Posted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.com Date: Tue Mar 3, 2009 10:05 am ((PST)) Following up on my question last week about the oil gun, I've replaced all the original nipples with the new style sold by Myford. I replaced the tip on the Myford provided oil gun with a grease gun fitting. Now I can use the oil gun without making a mess all over the place. One interesting note: The new oil nipples are larger than the orginals. When I replaced the nipple on the countershaft pulley I noticed that I was getting a definate noise that was not there before. It occured to me that the new nipple was unbalancing the pulley. When I switched back to the original, smaller nipple, the noise went away. I'm still working on fixing the Myford oil gun so it will work with the original nipples. Jonathan Bethesda, Maryland USA ------- Re: Oil Gun Follow-Up Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Tue Mar 3, 2009 11:21 am ((PST)) Jonathan, I'm not familiar with the new nipples, but I have made a new type coupler to suit the old style. It works so well that I made several new Myf nipples for my Sherline cnc mills. The coupler is a brass turning bored to slip over the nipple with an internal groove for an o-ring. There is a ball check valve behind the bore and a hose barb on the rear. A six inch piece of thick wall vinyl tube connects to a trigger oil can of your choice. Replace the spout with a hose barb fitting. In use you have to hold the coupler on the nipple and the nipple springs must have a light force to depress, unlike grease nipples. The springs I use to modify nipples and make new ones are found in disposable butane cig lighters. I will post pics later. RichD ------- Re: Drive belts (and Vertex Indexable Tools) [MyMyford] Posted by: "tomservo_9504" tomservo_9504x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:08 pm ((PDT)) > Again, what is the reason why transmission belting on lathes has to > run in grease, oil, or whatever and then be subject to someone playing > 'chemistry sets' with to remove the oil or whatever. My ML7 is an "original" design without the handy oil nipple on the sheave -- thus I have to oil the sheave/backgear assembly by squirting oil down the set screw hole -- inevitably getting my belt oily whenever I use the middle speed. When I can get the set screw out -- otherwise I have to resort to oiling where the parts join up and hope a useful amount gets in there. Obviously not the preferred method, but I don't use backgear often so fixing that hasn't been a big priority. I'm quite aware of the potential effects of solvents on plastics. A quick wipe down with a damp rag isn't going to destroy the belt prematurely. Leaving the oil to soak in is likely to, however. I'll try the mineral spirits, as per someone's suggestion, if I can't find my can of brake cleaner. One advantage to the twistlock type belts is you don't have to take apart the spindle bearings to install them -- a major plus for some folks. ------- NOTE TO FILE: This next conversation wanders all over the map but does contain some lubrication information. Sometimes a problem has several facets. Struggling to drill [MyMyford] Posted by: "wrinx1900" wrinklycherubx~xxhotmail.com Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:05 pm ((PDT)) Odd one this...my lathe slows to a stop when drilling, even when using a centre drill??? Took ages to open an 8mm hole about 25mm long! Initially I thought it must be a weak motor but the headstock became very warm so I'm wondering if the spindle is too tight, so that any additional pressure along its length causes stalling. Any other thoughts? Steve ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "timperrin97" perrti02x~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:31 pm ((PDT)) Do you have any way of measuring the spindle speed? I have used a bike speedo and some simple maths to get it into rpm. If you have a bike speedo but need some more info then do say and I will gladly help. ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:33 pm ((PDT)) Steve, same response as to the other fellow. Get the manual and learn how to adjust the spindle bearing setup. Your thrust bearing is too far back. The tapered bronze nose bearing is to take side oads. The angular contact ball thrust bearing support end loads. RichD ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "wrinx1900" wrinklycherubx~xxhotmail.com Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:55 pm ((PDT)) Thanks for confirming...looks like a strip down is in order :) cheers, Steve ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:28 am ((PDT)) Thrust bearing fault? Slipping drive belts? Blunt drills? Cliff Coggin ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "mike.crossfield" mike.crossfieldx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:01 am ((PDT)) Steve. Solid as it may look, the Super 7 headstock casting flexes under drilling loads. I did some tests a few years ago, and found that under heavy load the spindle can move back into the front bearing by as much as 3 thou. Since the front bearing is tapered, if the clearance has been set too small, under heavy drilling loads the clearance can disappear altogether. You can have problems even with the recommended settings if you force large blunt drills. My suggestion would be to set up your headstock bearings according to Myford's procedure, and try again (using sharp drills). You will hopefully find that your problem disappears. HTH Mike ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "timperrin97" perrti02x~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:10 am ((PDT)) As per request. There are 3 parts to the speedo. The little computer, the pick-up and a permanent magnet. The pick-up and computer can be connected by a wire or be wireless, but for this it makes no difference. The magnet is ALWAYS wireless. I set up the speedo as per the instructions. It will probably get you to tell it the diameter of the wheel. Make sure you remember this number. To get it onto the lathe I put the magnet onto the 4 jaw (with a length of wire coat hanger onto the magnet-there is a screw on the magnet to attach it to one of the spokes. The pick up went in the tool post. Make sure they are clock but not too close to hit each other. Manually turn the lathe to check nothing will collide. then turn it on and read the value off the computer for the speedo. Mine was about 56 mph (obviously some maths needed). The number that you put into as the diameter of the wheel is now needed. Mine was 700mm. this means that the distance travelled in one revolution is pi times 0.7 (s.i. units come in handy) which is 2.199114858. 56 mph translates to 0.933333 mp minute which is 1.493333 kmp min (times by 8 5ths) which is 1493 meters per minute. One revolution claims to be 2.2 m so the rpm comes out at around 679 rpm. However this is a lot of hassle compared to some of the other sugestions. Keep it in mind only if all else fails. With regards to which speedo to buy, get the cheapest -- nothing fancy -- would cost a bout £10 here but I don't know what you would be paying over there. ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:20 am ((PDT)) If the speedo is sophisticated enough to let you set a wide range of wheel diameters, then it may be possible to set it up so that the reading (in MPH) just needs a decimal point shift to convert to RPM. In the example below, increasing the wheel size to 848.75 (850 would be close enough) would give a MPH reading that just needed shifting by one place to the left (X10) to give you RPM directly without any further calculation. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "timperrin97" perrti02x~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:55 am ((PDT)) That is a good idea actually. I will have a look into that but I am in the process of building an electronic rev counter from scratch. ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "wrinx1900" wrinklycherubx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:20 am ((PDT)) Belts and drills all fine, but yes I think there's a set up problem with the spindle so will follow that line...thanks. Steve ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:38 am ((PDT)) Steve, Your problem might also indicate that oil is not getting to the headstock bearing in sufficient quantity. I would have expected the oil film to have been able to resist a reasonable amount of pressure from the tailstock before allowing the taper bearing to bind. So I think a full examination of the spindle and oiler pad would be wise. Good luck ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "wrinx1900" wrinklycherubx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:02 am ((PDT)) Agreed, I'm not convinced any oil is getting there to be honest! Steve ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "wrinx1900" wrinklycherubx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:16 pm ((PDT)) Stripped down the spindle and associated parts this afternoon, cleaned it all up and after a few "trial" attempts set up the spindle as near to spot on as I think it should be. Quick test consisting of exactly the same operation I was doing the other night showed it's fixed! So it was the spindle adjustment as suggested, thanks :) Can't say I'm very impressed with the front bearing lubrication set-up. How effective is it long term, does it provide enough oil? Steve ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:36 pm ((PDT)) My 7R lubrication has been working ok for me since I bought it new 30 years ago!! ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "slotscot" davenichx~xxblueyonder.co.uk Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:06 pm ((PDT)) Yep same story with me as well, bought my Myford S7 new nearer to 35 years ago, no problems at all, just make sure you use the correct grade of oil. On mine I fill the cup to the top at the start of an evening, run the lathe and I find the level drops a little within a few seconds/minutes, top up again and it's fine for the rest of the night. I'm usually running for 3 hours pretty well non stop on the 3rd highest speed and by the end of the evening the bearing is definitely warm, but not hot, I do check occasionally though. If you have doubts about the lubrication, ie no use of oil, or getting hot, there is a possibility that a previous owner has used too thick an oil which won't seep through the wick system. I know a friend of mine had that problem and had to strip the main spindle and replace the wick after a clean out.. no problems since. I know it's a pain but...better safe than sorry. Dave ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "wrinx1900" wrinklycherubx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:32 pm ((PDT)) Yes, I've nearly done that today. The bottom half of the "wick" (hard sponge?) was clean but the top half was almost black! A quick soak in white spirit seemed to help but I'm not convinced by the idea of dragging oil up a sponge to one small pad, which is supposed to oil a spindle about 60mm wide. Perhaps replacement will put my mind at rest...after all, it obviously works for the designers at Myford :) Steve ------- Re: Struggling to drill Posted by: "wrinx1900" wrinklycherubx~xxhotmail.com Date: Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:13 pm ((PDT)) Thanks for the reassuring words. I contacted Myford by email yesterday (no reply yet) for a few spare parts and will renew the wick to be safe. Steve ------- Drip lubricators [MyMyford] Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:51 am ((PDT)) The main spindle drip lubricators of my ML7 of the type shown at http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t125/cliffcoggin/?action=view&cur rent=IMG_1511a.jpg needed to be adjusted repeatedly because the flow changed from day to day, and one of them had a crack in the upper glass, so I bought a couple of new ones from Myford of the type shown at http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t125/cliffcoggin/?action=view&cur rent=IMG_1497a.jpg These have proved to be awful abominations with two faults: [1] The oil does not drip off the tip, instead it runs steadily down the side of the glass giving no idea of flow rate, so I have to remove them from the lathe and adjust them in a vice. [2] When installed on the lathe the oil level drops for a while and then stops. I suspect they air-locked because there is no vent hole in the lower glass, unlike the old type. Has anybody had similar problems and found a solution? Cliff Coggin ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:08 am ((PDT)) Cliff -- I also have the "new" style oilers on my ML7 and they exhibit the same problem (oil drips down the sides). I am currently eyeing up the one-shot oiler system that Arc Eurotrade is now selling -- has the potential to fix all of the oiling problems. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:40 am ((PDT)) I checked the ArcEuro site but can't find a one-shot oiler for Myfords. Do you have a part number? ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:44 am ((PDT)) It isn't on their site yet, but it is in the latest catalogue (free with this month's MEW). It isn't a Myford kit - more a series of parts that can be used for a variety of different machines. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:44 am ((PDT)) Ken, According to their paper catalogue just released, the one shot lube system will not be available until july 09. hth Bob ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "John Mandell" jmandell2x~xxpointech.com Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:06 am ((PDT)) Some years ago, I removed my Myford drip lubricators and replaced them with Trico units: http://www.tricocorp.com/products/product.aspx?c=2&p=11 A brass adapter is needed, but they work great. You set the drip rate with the locking ring & the toggle on top turns them on/off/flush. Trico has other gravity feed oilers, also. I think mine are 2 oz & they will sell direct.for $35 each. Cheers, John Austin, TX http://www.pointech.com/786 ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:56 am ((PDT)) Thanks John, that prompted me to look for a company in Britain that makes them, and to my surprise I found Adams http://www.adamslube.com/Oilers_Main/Oilers_Cat_PDF/Drip_Feed_Lub.pdf who made the original drippers for my lathe. They make a similar lubricator to yours with either plastic or glass resevoirs, the glass being particularly appealing because it will not discolour with age, and in any case spare glasses can be purchased. I shall check tomorrow the price and availability. I believe the thread in the headstock bearing caps is 1/8" BSP, can anybody confirm this please? Cliff Coggin ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:57 am ((PDT)) So what does it comprise Tony? A pumped system or gravity feed? Manual or electric? Does it have adjustable feed rate? I'd like to read more details please. Cliff ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.com Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:29 am ((PDT)) John, thanks for the good tip on the Trico oilers. I will definitely check them out. Jonathan Bethesda, MD ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:49 pm ((PDT)) Cliff - The easiest way is to invest in a copy of MEW and get the Arc catalogue. It has a manual operated pump and 4 "metering" units that give different flow rates. Plus a bunch of manifolds, connectors, tubes,...yada yada. You figure out what you need & buy the bits. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "John Mandell" jmandell2x~xxpointech.com Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:59 pm ((PDT)) Good find! The Adams parts look very similar to Trico. I'd have preferred the glass reservoir as well, but Trico didn't offer that option in the little units. Thanks for sharing this. Cheers, John ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:34 am ((PDT)) That's not in fact the "easiest" way for me to get the information because it would involve a 6 mile drive to the nearest newsagent, assuming of course he stocked the magazine. Nevertheless your precis was exactly what I wanted to know. I shall watch for the appearance of this system on the Arc website. What about about the thread size in the caps? Is it 1/8" BSP as I vaguely recall reading here? Regards, Cliff ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:04 am ((PDT)) Metric - M8X1. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "David Wilson" d.j.wilsonx~xxmac.com Date: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:32 pm ((PDT)) Hi. My Myford drip oiler's are 1/8 BSP. Had to get some taps to be able to fit them, when I purchased them about 1972. They are the acrylic reservoir and still have a clear look to them. Glass sounds a bit fragile on top of the headstock. I would still go for plastic over glass. Regards Dave (ML4 Tumbler Reverse Album) ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Norman Atkinson" ravensworth2674x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:02 pm ((PDT)) Sounds like a case for a modified small bore watering system. Well, Cliff, there are dafter things for us -- who are down on the farm or farm on the downs or down in the scrap dumps or whatever. Norm ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:43 pm ((PDT)) Sounds like a bit of a bore to me... Regards, Tony ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:56 am ((PDT)) I bought two of the Adams drip lubricators and installed them today. The needle valve controls are chunkier and less elegant than the originals, but they work superbly. I recommend them to anybody needing to fit new lubricators. Incidentally the thread is 1/8" BSP on my lathe so no adapters were required. http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t125/cliffcoggin/?action=view&cur rent=IMG_1528a.jpg Cliff ------- Re: Drip lubricators Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:04 am ((PDT)) I bought the GSF 130 because of the glass resevoir. There is an oiler on the next page which more closely resembles the original but it comes only with an acrylic resevoir. Cliff ------- backgear oil ML7 [MyMyford] Posted by: "Dan Miller" 59vwx~xxcomcast.net dguthriem Date: Sat Jun 6, 2009 11:57 am ((PDT)) Hi, I've been lurking here for some time. I have an old ML7 that works well but I've never been able to determine how to properly oil the backgear mechanism within the spindle. The manuals and diagrams show a nipple on the belt sheave but mine doesn't have one. I've managed by putting oil in the hole for the grubscrew on the sheave which seems to work but seems also unconventional and difficult. Anyone else have a ML7 without the nipple on the sheave? Thanks Dan M. ------- Re: backgear oil ML7 Posted by: "timperrin97" perrti02x~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Jun 6, 2009 12:20 pm ((PDT)) Have you had a proper poke with a small piece of metal? Mine had the hole all gummed up with grease because the oil nipple had been removed. There may be a hole hiding in there somewhere. ------- Re: backgear oil ML7 Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Jun 6, 2009 1:00 pm ((PDT)) Mine is like yours Dan, and you do indeed oil the bronze pulley bearing by removing the grubscrew from the centre pulley of the sheave. The back gear cluster is oiled via a hole in its eccentric mounting boss. Cliff Coggin ------- Re: backgear oil ML7 Posted by: "Steven Vine" microstocx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sat Jun 6, 2009 4:05 pm ((PDT)) My pulley does not have the nipple either, but there is a drilled conical depression where the nipple should go. This has puzzled me since I got the machine and I've always assumed that someone forgot to finish it off. Myford wouldn't do that though, would they? Mine is on K.15083 circa Jan 1951. Steven Vine ------- correct lubrication [MyMyford] Posted by: "madfreet" mark.brown807x~xxntlworld.com Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:10 am ((PDT)) Norman is the correct type of oil critical iso 32 hydraulic...im no expert on this sort of thing...ive seen oil advertised on e bay specifically for the ML7 or so it says !!! now if i could buy it online from myford!!! ------- Re: correct lubrication Posted by: "Norman Atkinson" ravensworth2674x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:12 am ((PDT)) Mark, I would confirm the ISO32 Hydraulic oil for the spindle! Frankly, this NUTO 32 lark is a rip off. Simply go into a wholesale oil supplier and buy a 5 litre thing of 'high bollock' oil for any old jack or suspension leg or whatever. You'll find it surprisingly cheap. Whilst you are on, check the way oils for your lathe and also cutting fluid. I'm a bit (well, really a helluva lot) old fashioned and I use lard oil which was what the old timers used for cutting fluids - and they got the results. It's great for tapping and drilling as well. OK - time for the 'experts' to tell me that I'm wrong. Next??? Norm ------- Re: correct lubrication Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:26 am ((PDT)) Mark, Nearly every 'big brand' oil supplier makes an hydraulic oil in grade 32. Any of those will do. I think your lathe uses the glass drip oilers (?) other grades of light oil might work ok. Later machines have a wick oiler system that are more critical to use the right oil. Oillite bushes similar to your dimensions will be 0.500" od, 0.375" (3/8") id and 1.25" long. I think your were after gib screws? these are 2BA or 1/4BSF depending on location. It is relatively easy to shape the business ends of the screws to match the existing ones especially if your lathe is functional. Locknut a pair of nuts onto the screw and hold one of the hexagons in the 3 jaw chuck. The spreadsheet you were sent needs either Excel or an Excel compatible application. I think you can get a free version of the latter via the Java website. It is certainly offered when downloading the latest Java script version (also free). Alternatively search with google for "excel viewer" Myford online does not exist. Grow up and get over it. Hope this helps you. Bob ------- Re: correct lubrication Posted by: "mark" mark.brown807x~xxntlworld.com madfreet Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:19 am ((PDT)) Thanks Bob yes it does have the glass oilers thanks for The info on the bearings ...I'm over myford not being Online (shrugs shoulders and gets on with it) lol ------- Re: correct lubrication Posted by: "Norman Atkinson" ravensworth2674x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:52 am ((PDT)) Mark, there are lots of things before a suds pump on a ---Myford???? OK, if you are going into production but if I read your blurb correctly, you are not. Arm yourself with a jam jar and an inch or so of lard oil in the bottom and a half inch paint brush. Dab it here, dab it there - as the song says. I threw mine out as the powers that be rebelled against clothing soaked and smelling of a French urinal! Frankly, I'd trot off and buy George Thomas's Model Engineers Workshop Manual which has all sorts of things and information expressly for the Super 7 and ML7 users. Bloody sight more logical than being concerned about the lathe number. Also spake Zarathrustra Norm ------- Re: correct lubrication Posted by: "timperrin97" perrti02x~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:30 am ((PDT)) Norm (or anyone else for that matter), What actually IS lard oil? I have heard it mentioned all over the place but never actually found out what it is. Does it have any connection to lard or is that just its name? Also, where do you get it from? I don't know of any lubricant supplier near me so I was wondering if it is readily available from a chemist or such like? Many Thanks Tim ------- Re: correct lubrication Posted by: "Norman Atkinson" ravensworth2674x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:52 am ((PDT)) Lard oil is exactly what it says on the label. It is the oil from the pig fat but in my reference here is refined or pure. There are are lot of jokes about chicken fat and the left overs from the Christmas turkey but this is 'pig, pig, pig'. If you follow the writings about the old timers, there was a soda water cutting fluid - which was great except that it corroded any steel or iron. Then there is/was a mixture of it and lard oil. Again, I would walk into the nearest oil supplier and ask for '5 litres of pure lard oil' and I recall paying about £12 or £13 here in Newcastle. It was ordered and I have used it happily ever since. Digressing somewhat, I have a proprietory tapping 'goo' which contains lard oil and tallow. The latter is the 'suint' from fleeces. Importantly, there may, and I use the word carefully, be better stuff but it is nice to work with. Now castor oil? No, enough for one day. Liquid Paraffin - no, not the stuff in tractors - but the stuff that if taken in quantity will keep you out of the workshop! It does work well- WELLLLLLLL!!!!! Norm ------- Re: correct lubrication Posted by: "mark" mark.brown807x~xxntlworld.com madfreet Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:25 am ((PDT)) Norm I threw out the powers that be :D ..I'm always smelling Like a diesel engine...oh and I just bought a thread dial indicator Off ...well e bay...don't know what they do...but I know they look Good ....lard oil it is then ------- Cross slide lubrication? [MyMyford] Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net cmsteamer Date: Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:27 pm ((PDT)) Having a good cleanup of the lathe today after turning cast iron, it came to reinstalling the cross slide and the thought came to mind that pouring oil on the saddle will undoubedly end up in the tray in short order as the slide is shoved back on. Has anyone suggestions to improve this situation. Have there been any improvements or mods published in the ME mags? Looking about the saddle underside I see the two angled grooves intersecting with the nipple feed holes. Now suppose there were vertical connecting holes added to meter some of the oil from the grooves into the small space in the cross slide dovetails to capillary into the ways there. This is very easy to do, but the holes would need to be approximately a No. 80 drill size (.0135") or 0.3mm to be sure of lubing the saddle and ways adequately. There are 4 places available to do this. I see no other obvious way to place lube points for the cross slide. Ball oilers in the top is out of the question. Any thoughts gents? RichD ------- Re: Cross slide lubrication? Posted by: "timperrin97" perrti02x~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:10 am ((PDT)) If you put the oil directly onto the saddle's top surface will there not still be a film between the cross slide and the saddle? Most will go straight onto the drip tray but I would have thought that a suitably light oil would remain in some capacity? It just strikes me as odd that Myford would miss something so elementary and not correct it on the S7? ------- Re: Cross slide lubrication? Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net cmsteamer Date: Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:32 am ((PDT)) Tim, I'm sure there will be some, but the only way to re-oil is to remove the slide and wipe on more. Doing this on a daily basis when you use the lathe a lot gets to be a chore and accidents to the heavy slide on removal, handling and installation is a hazard. I have actually done the mod and it works very well. About 2 drops of oil make it to each point in the cross slide dovetails' small space. The connecting hole must be very small or the bulk of the oil will end up in the cross slide. The holes start in the oil grooves and intersect the small of the V in the dovetails above. The N0. 80 size hole is done thus: Drill 1/32" hole (.8 - 1 mm) thru first. Counter bore shallow holes to press fit a plastic plug. I use a 1/16" long piece of grass whip cord. Drill thru the plug No. 80 then press in. That's all there is to do. RichD ------- Cutting oil grooves in bushes [MyMyford] Posted by: "gcvelo" gcraftx~xxforemanroberts.com gcvelo Date: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:34 am ((PDT)) I need to cut some spiral grooves in the bores of some bronze bushes on my Super 7B. The required ratio is 1 turn in 2" travel. Any ideas as to how I can accomplish this? ------- Re: Cutting oil grooves in bushes Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxsympatico.ca kstrauss7 Date: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:54 am ((PDT)) The exact characteristics of oil grooves are not particularly critical for most applications. I have seen small burrs in a hand held die grinder or Dremel used successfully. ------- Re: Cutting oil grooves in bushes Posted by: "Geoff Craft" gcraftx~xxforemanroberts.com gcvelo Date: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:00 am ((PDT)) Agreed. But if it were to be done on the Myford, how could it be accomplished? ------- Re: Cutting oil grooves in bushes Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxsympatico.ca kstrauss7 Date: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:10 am ((PDT)) If you insist. Take a look at the construction of the Quorn grinder which started in the 4 Jan 74 issue of Model Engineer. Chaddock describes how to cut a 1 TPI thread by running the leadscrew at 8 times the spindle speed. If you like I'll be happy to email a scan of the relevant pages. ------- Re: Cutting oil grooves in bushes Posted by: "Malcolm Parker-Lisberg" mparkerlisbergx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:10 am ((PDT)) Grooving tool in toolpost, select suitable gears on the quadrant and drive the leadscrew with a handle on it with the feed engaged. ------- "built in" headstock oilpot. [MyMyford] Posted by: "Bob Salter" bob.salter1960x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:36 am ((PDT)) I've just been speaking to myford, and to my delight my lathe was made on 4/10/1948. I'm ordering a new countershaft motor pulley, but need the little plastic pot that the viewing window screws on to. I can't see a manual for a super 7 headstock with a built in oilpot so am unclear what the part number is. Any ideas? Also I have a (possibly original) brook crompton motor. AFAIK it is working ok, but the casing is in dire need of a spruce up. Can I remove the outer case and clean/repaint without doing any harm? I do have a good working knowledge of electrics. Cheers Bob ------- Re: "built in" headstock oilpot. Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com bobdownfield1 Date: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:08 am ((PDT)) Hi Bob, It seems from here http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford/page15.html that the built in oilers were only used for a relatively short period. I guess asking Myford about part nos and spares would be best. You might find they are like hens teeth and that you have to make some parts. I also note that according to the above link, S7 were only made from 1953 so either that website is wrong or you might have a hybrid machine and your serial no refers to a ML7? Regards Bob ------- Re: "built in" headstock oilpot. Posted by: "Tim Ostley" Tim.Ostleyx~xxgooglemail.com m0czp Date: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:30 am ((PDT)) Bob, As Bob says, the Super 7 dates from 1953. I have one with a serial no. in the 2000 range (can't remember off the top of my head the actual number) which is 1955. It has the oil pot headstock and I seem to remember that Myford carry spares of the little glass window. I have removed the window on mine and cleaned it but that was 10 years or so ago and I can't remember how it came out -- either unscrew the bezel or pull the whole thing out. If you talk to Myford about spare parts they will probably be able to tell you how to remove it. Hope this helps Tim ------- Re: "built in" headstock oilpot. Posted by: "the_iliad26" stephen.white200x~xxntlworld.com Date: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:05 am ((PDT)) I too have a S7 wih the built in oilpot. Mine appears to have no serial number so I suspect that it is a rebuild. The pot is as annoying as hell. I fill it up easily enough, but I always forget to close off the dripper and it floods with oil overnight. Instant oil soaking the next evening. ------- Re: "built in" headstock oilpot. Posted by: "mark" mark.brown807x~xxntlworld.com madfreet Date: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:31 am ((PDT)) Put up a large sign on the wall behind the lathe: "HAVE YOU TURNED OFF THE OIL FEEDERS?" ------- Re: "built in" headstock oilpot. Posted by: "Steven Vine" microstocx~xxhotmail.com Date: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:42 pm ((PDT)) Good idea. And put one on the shop door: "HAVE YOU READ THE SIGN BEHIND THE LATHE?" Steve ------- ML7 gearbox oil leak [MyMyford] Posted by: "moyes_a" moyes_ax~xxyahoo.com moyes_a Date: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:01 pm ((PDT)) I have just fitted a new screwcutting gearbox to my trusty old ML7. I'm well pleased with it but find a significant loss of oil where the leadscrew passes through the gearbox casing at both ends. I have filled the oil to a little below the level of the right hand level plug as per instructions. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there a simple way of fitting an oil seal? ------- Re: ML7 gearbox oil leak Posted by: "jim" lathe-partsx~xxnew-or-used.co.uk checker71uk Date: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:36 am ((PDT)) You have over filled it with oil. regards Jim ------- Re: ML7 gearbox oil leak Posted by: "moyes_a" moyes_ax~xxyahoo.com moyes_a Date: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:56 pm ((PDT)) Hi Jim, Yes, it seems so - but what's the point of having the oil level plug (item 134) if it results in overfilling? I suppose it will sort itself out when enough oil has leaked out. Andrew ------- Re: ML7 gearbox oil leak Posted by: "slotscot" davenichx~xxblueyonder.co.uk slotscot Date: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:59 pm ((PDT)) Just checked my gearbox and the level plug (134) is lower than the leadscrew so I don't see how the oil is escaping, unless, after picking up the oil from the sump it is running down the gears and along the leadscrew. The manual I have just says fill to overflow...must check my levels. Dave ------- Re: ML7 gearbox oil leak Posted by: "mike.crossfield" mike.crossfieldx~xxvirgin.net mikecb1uk Date: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:57 pm ((PDT)) Dave: If you peer into the box when it's running, particularly at relatively high speed, you will see that the gears throw the oil up well above the lead screw level. In my experience even minor wear in the bushings on the side of the box will give some leakage. Mike ------- modified grease gun [MyMyford] Posted by: "nr_bobcatt" bobcattx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:46 pm ((PDT)) Last year, in anticipation of setting up the ML7 "really soon", I purchased a mini grease gun http://tinyurl.com/l6boot with the hope of modifying it to push oil into Zerk fittings retrofitted to the lathe. I also picked up a flexible hose http://tinyurl.com/novgps so that I could hold the gun upright (that is to say upside down - I doubt that the gasket/plunger will pressurise the oil in the reservoir) while squeezing the grip. As this lathe already has these Zerk fittings, I gave it a shot (so to speak). Needless to say, the first trial did not impress. If you want to get oil everywhere but into the fitting itself, this is definitely the tool to use. More consideration is required. My initial thought is that there the lower viscosity oil is not allowing the plunger to generate sufficient pressure to displace the ball bearing in the fitting (i.e. the fit may be too loose on the plunger). Next trial I will try it on a Zerk fitting that is not installed so I can view the results. ChrisA ------- Re: modified grease gun Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net cmsteamer Date: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:18 pm ((PDT)) Chris, I gave up on oil guns- nee greasers. The clearances in the pump are too large for oil, too much blow by and difficult to prime. After the discussions some time ago about the ball springs in the old style ball oilers and zerks being way to difficult to depress, etc, I found that indeed was the vast majority of the problem. My S7 has the 2BA oilers (has the straight sided top) and most were very stiff. This takes a high hydraulic force to inject oil thru let alone into the slide spaces. The only requirement for the ball is to keep out dirt, etc. Why so tight then? Off they came and all were quickly modified to lighten up the spring force. Easy to do. A prick punch spreads open the bottom hole, the spring is picked out enough to cut off a half turn or so and tried for good seal. Tap the hole closed enough to hold it. Next was the oiler problem. Since not nearly as much pressure is needed now, I modified a common trigger oiler can with a length of vinyl fuel hose and a simple coupler with o-ring seal. Now it's just a matter of holding the coupler on the oiler top and squeeze. No fuss -- no muss. Later I modified all the zerk springs on the Bridgeport mill and the new oil can works there too. My South Bend 9 inch lathe is also fixed up with loose zerks now. I'll put a picture in my Album folder of the oil can and coupler setup. RichD ------- Re: modified grease gun Posted by: "durnfjmx~xxaol.com" durnfjmx~xxaol.com durnfjm Date: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:44 pm ((PDT)) Well - I gave up on oil guns an grease nipples (zerks?) many, many years ago - well before internet user groups! I have said before, but some time ago, I belong to the squirt-it-on and hope-it-gets-in-the-right-place school of thought, that means clean the slideways off at the end of each session - take particular care when you have been using cast iron, and other potentially abrasive materials, otherwise just a paintbrush or rag; slop the oil on, wind the feeds back and fore, clean them again, more oil on and that's it. Seems to be working fine for me. My S7B was born in 1963, I have had it for well over 20 years, and it gets used to make real stuff more than a couple of times most weeks of the year. It's still as accurate as I can imagine any good hobbyist would want. (So why would anyone want to use ?Marlon-Turcite? or whatever on slideways anyway - what are they using the lathe for?) Stay safe, MikeD ------- Re: modified grease gun Posted by: "nr_bobcatt" bobcattx~xxsympatico.ca nr_bobcatt Date: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:19 pm ((PDT)) Thanks Rich & Mike. I'll take a look at the replacement fittings I've bought and see if I can modify the springs as you describe. Look forward to seeing the picture. ChrisA ------- Myford Lathe Pump Oiler [MyMyford] Posted by: "cmsteamer" toolman8x~xxcopper.net cmsteamer Date: Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:38 pm ((PDT)) This is what I came up with after trying all the other suggested methods and the resulting mess, etc. Grease pumps kinda work after a fashion. As mentioned before the Myford Oil Nipples and others with Zerks (ball headed ball oilers) are modified to relieve the ball spring pressure to just close the ball and no more. Now any trigger pump oiler will deliver lube easily. I used an Eagle #66 oil can, but the lever style may be a better solution. I uploaded 4 pics of the oiler and the coupler asssembly to show how a typical oiler can be made. See my album "RichD's Myford S7 Stuff". The coupler ID is just big enough to splip over the Myford nipple and an internal o-ring makes the seal. An internal ball and spring form a check valve to prevent the vinyl hose from draining. I was suprised to find that the coupler will also mate with a common Zerk nipple as well, but only to seal on the o-ring. It works. To use, the coupler must always be held in place as you pump. A few bits of 3/8 brass bar and some time and you can have one too. RichD ------- [MyMyford] Group Closure Posted by: freudiankey Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:31 PM Good Day to all, Once again the group has been nothing to do with what it is designed for. Many are encouraging stricter moderation and so here it is. I have had this group for a number of years and to be honest I've had enough. I would like to thank all those who have contributed in a positive way to make this group the pleasure it used to be. Thats all folks. To those who wonder what's going on and are here for Myford Engineering reasons, my apologies but no doubt another group shall rise from the ashes soon enough. Who knows, I might even join! Best regards. Freudiankey Ex Moderator ------- NOTE TO FILE: The End of the MyMyford Group at Yahoo In the final lead up to November 2009, heated arguments and insults crept into more and more conversations in the MyMyford group and alienated more and more legitimate contributors. Finally the list moderator had had enough and disbanded the group. Thankfully the group myfordlathes continued on with serious inquiries and assistance from helpful folks. ------- ML7 - Drip feed oilers and Felt wipers [myfordlathes] Posted by: "peterscott147" peterscott147x~xxyahoo.com peterscott147 Date: Fri Jan 1, 2010 9:16 am ((PST)) Drip-feed oilers: What rate should I set my drip feed oilers to on my ML7. I currently have them set to one drop per 1 min 15 secs or thereabouts. In my short time as the owner of a lathe I have read various rates advised. What do the experts think? Felt wiper: How thick should the felt be for the felt wiper fitted to the saddle? And what material do you use for this job. It is currently missing from my lathe. Thanks for your help, Peter ------- Re: ML7 - Drip feed oilers and Felt wipers Posted by: "jwhbecker" jwhbeckerx~xxyahoo.de jwhbecker Date: Fri Jan 1, 2010 10:11 am ((PST)) Peter, re felt wipers: I had the same problem and decided to buy from Myfords (item 70/1328 GBP 4.29). The problem I saw, was the fact that you need them somewhat too large so they build up enough pressure on the ways. Which in turn also depends on the stiffness of the material. I had bought 3 to have a new one available as soon as I would need it. re drip-feed oilers: the manual says: "Normally the drip should be set as slow as possible but if prolonged high speed is undertaken the rate may be increased." see paragraph on lubrication, Headstock Bearings (page 17??) Jochen ------- Re: ML7 - Drip feed oilers and Felt wipers Posted by: "David" sardinesarniex~xxyahoo.com sardinesarnie Date: Fri Jan 1, 2010 1:34 pm ((PST)) Hello Peter. Don't have oilers on mine, but I made my saddle wiper out of a piece of an old leather trouser belt. I used the wiper retaining plate as a pattern. Works just fine and cost nothing. ------- Re: ML7 - Drip feed oilers and Felt wipers Posted by: "dnaman43" mevagissyx~xxgmail.com dnaman43 Date: Fri Jan 1, 2010 1:52 pm ((PST)) The one that came off mine when I rebuilt it measures 3/16". I replaced it with felt from a craft store. Couldn't find any that thick so I used a desk-stapler to attach several pieces together to make up the thickness. ------- Re: ML7 - Drip feed oilers and Felt wipers Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Fri Jan 1, 2010 2:20 pm ((PST)) Peter FWIW I have mine set to one drop every 10 minutes or so. I think a lot will depend on the clearancees in your bearings. I never really do the prolonged turning mentioned in the manual ... they almost certainly envisaged production work (from the era when Myford lathes were thusly used). But after a longish run the bearings just feel slightly warm, believe me I feel them frequently! A single hot run and they're ruined. At the start of the day, or after a lunch break, I always lift the oiler thingy up and let five drops go straight into the bearings, then rotate the mandrel by hand a few turns, then I'm happy with my six drops an hour. If there's a pause in turning but I'm still in the workshop I leave the oilers open, when I go into the house for lunch I shut them down and give five drops again when I come back. The oil is cheap, even if you buy it from Myford, though any ISO 32 grade hydraulic oil is just fine, so there's no real incentive to skimp. If you persistently run at high speeds (with more oil going in) there will be some oil flung around from the front bearing, but you either tolerate it or arrange a small shield. The bearings should really be regarded as irreplaceable. I gather they're not available as new spares from anywhere, though you sometimes see reclaimed ones advertised. But with adequate oil they'll last a lifetime of typical ME use. Really, so long as the bearings only get slightly warm after prolonged use it's fine, and there are more productive things to do than try to tweek the oilers to the minimum acceptable feed. Kevin, NW England, UK ------- Re: ML7 - Drip feed oilers and Felt wipers Posted by: "peterscott147" peterscott147x~xxyahoo.com peterscott147 Date: Sat Jan 2, 2010 1:42 am ((PST)) Thanks to you all. Felt wiper - Now I know what the approx thickness of the 'felt' should be I can choose between buy from Myford, leather or layers of felt from the craft shop. It was the latter that I was thinking about but it is always helpful to benefit from others experience. Drip-feed oilers. - The problem with Myford's advice is that 'slow as possible' does not give the beginner any idea as to just how slow you can adjust them whilst being sure that they will work reliably. I agree Kevin, that oil is cheap and white metal bearings are priceless so you should always err on the safe side. Especially as I cannot see my oilers dripping unless I remove them. The oil runs down the inside of the glass rather than 'dripping'. I will slow mine down a bit to say once every four/five minutes and see how I get on. Once again thanks for your help. Happy new Year, Peter ------- Re: ML7 - Drip feed oilers and Felt wipers Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxgmail.com kstrauss7 Date: Sat Jan 2, 2010 11:43 am ((PST)) Perhaps you will have better luck than I but the "felt" in my local craft shop is not made of wool but is a synthetic which doesn't seem to work well for way wipes. Thick felt is used for insoles for winter boots. Boot felt is quite thick and enough to make a lifetime supply of wipes is only a few dollars. ------- Old ML7 oiling points [myfordlathes] Posted by: "dense505crew" iangreggx~xxbigpond.com ian4biscuit Date: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:32 am ((PDT)) I have just inherited ML7 serial number K11162 which from a bit of research is circa 1950. Basically in good condition but I am planning to strip, clean and fine tune. The oiling points are almost flush with a small ball in the centre and some don't seem to be flowing. I grew up with a slightly later ML7 of my fathers that had raised fittings in these locations. Lots of questions: Is there a method of removing these points? Is there a special fitting to use when oiling them? Is there a replacement fitting that works better. Related problem, there is no oiling point on the spindle vbelt pulley that I thought was important if using the back gear. ------- Re: Old ML7 oiling points Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net cliffcoggin Date: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:49 am ((PDT)) I have the same lube points on mine. They are a press fit in 1/4" diameter parallel sided holes and easily removed, (later models had screw in nipples). It's easy to make new ones if the lathe is working. Any oil can will inject oil, but be prepared for some blow back when the pressure is released. The oil hole for the spindle gear cluster is plugged by a grub screw in the middle sheave. Later models had an angled oil nipple screwed into the end face of the cluster. Cliff Coggin ------- Re: Old ML7 oiling points Posted by: "Ricardo Medina" rmedinaday.engx~xxgmail.com ricardo.medinaday Date: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:13 am ((PDT)) Ahhh, thanks for that pointer to the pulley oiling point! My poor old ML7 is circa 1951, with the same fittings, and it was pretty badly mistreated by it's previous owner... I'm trying to restore it as much as possible, but shipping original components from England gets very expensive very quickly... I almost never used the backgear, but I have a hunch that the previous owner did... and surely never oiled it... for 200 quid, what more could I expect, eh? Thanks, Ricardo ------- Re: Old ML7 oiling points Posted by: "dense505crew" iangreggx~xxbigpond.com ian4biscuit Date: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:19 pm ((PDT)) Thanks Cliff. There is not much there to get hold of to remove the old ones. Just use a screw extractor or drill them out a bit first? Chris pointed me to some new replacements available at www.lathespares.co.uk which seem reasonable value but I wonder if I really need the expensive oil pump they are selling on the same page? I was looking for the angled oil nipple. If I pull it down that far I will make that modification. Ian ------- Re: Old ML7 oiling points Posted by: "Ricardo Medina" rmedinaday.engx~xxgmail.com ricardo.medinaday Date: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:57 pm ((PDT)) I got them out by gently "unscrewing" them with a pair of pliers. Careful not to mark them, if you can line them with an old bit of bicycle inner tube or something it might help. They're just a light push fit, so it doesn't take much effort to free them. Ricky ------- Re: Old ML7 oiling points Posted by: "john56552" john.777cordenx~xxbtinternet.com john56552 Date: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:22 pm ((PDT)) Hi, It all depends how far you want to go. The oil nipples will easily push out from the rear, so if you are taking off the saddle anyway it's no problem. The ones on the curved surfaces -- lead screw and (maybe, depending on age) countershaft respond to a sharp screwdriver or similar under the edge. I replaced all of mine with push in nipples from lathe spares (dot) co (dot) UK - 1/4 in push fit (not the concave ones). In a fit of enthusiasm I turned a little tube especially to press them in. The advantage of these is that you can use a regular grease gun to force oil in. I use a cheap grease gun which I 'line' with grease at the filler cap end and then top up with oil. I get a satisfying flow of oil from under the saddle and the countershaft and lead screw bearings when I use this. Regards, John ------- Re: Old ML7 oiling points Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net cliffcoggin Date: Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:46 am ((PDT)) I find a standard pump action oil can held onto the lube points will inject oil into all of them, though as I mentioned earlier, residual pressure in the nipple may squirt a little oil out as the can is removed. There is absolutely no need for special oil guns or nipple connectors, just have some rag handy to mop up the leakage. Cliff ------- ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption [myfordlathes] Posted by: "svenalferink" sven.alferinkx~xxwur.nl svenalferink Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:54 am ((PDT)) My ML10 has a large oil consumption from the right hand headstock bearing (spindle nose side). The left hand side uses only a tenth or less of the oil the right hand side needs. An oil cup full in 1 hour of running. It has larger type oil cups with a wick installed at both sides, not the tiny ones I see in the pictures in the ML10 manual. I use the myford prescribed Esso Nuto H32 type oil. The right had side also runs empty when not running the machine, while the left hadn side oil cup stays filled. It seems to leak from between the headstock and spindle. Onto the bed and into the headstock space I tried to test the bearing for radial play with a test indicator on a 10" long 1" diameter bar in the three jaw chuck and then putting pressure on the end of the bar with my thumb but the indicator came back to zero every time and from every direction. So there seems to be no large play in the headstock bearing. I also tried to tighten bolt of the bearing cap some more but when I did (only 1/8th of a turn was possible by hand with a normal hex key) the spindle rotated so much heavier that I returned to the original setting. So my questions are: -Does anyone else have the same high oil consuption with a ML10? -Is there any need for concern about the condition of the headstock bearing? -Can there be anything done about the high oil consumption? My lathe table gets a lot of unnecessary oil this way. Thanks, Sven ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "Andy Chapman" Chapmanadx~xxaol.com chapmanad Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:08 am ((PDT)) Don't the oilers have flow rate adjusters on them? The bearings are open plain bearings and will "use" as much oil as you give them. I know nothing of ML10s but the oilers on my old ML7 had needle-valve flow control and a sight-glass to set the drip-rate. Can the ML7 oilers be fitted to the ML10? Cheers, AndyC ------- ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "Iain Miller" iain_millerx~xxbtopenworld.com iain_miller1947 Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:45 am ((PDT)) Perhaps there was a design change somewhere along the way because my Speed10 has grease nipples on both headstock spindle bearings and my ML10 Manual (Nr. 743K) does not suggest Shell Nuto for these points but a light Lithium based grease such as Castrol LM for both headstock spindle bearings. Perhaps someone has improved(?) your lathe by fitting oil cups and perhaps it is not such an improvement. Regards, Iain Miller ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net cliffcoggin Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:07 am ((PDT)) Sven. Does your oiler look like either of these? http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t125/cliffcoggin/?action=view&cur rent=IMG_1528a.jpg If it does then the needle valve merely needs to be adjusted. Raise the lever to turn on the flow; lower it to stop the flow. Turn the thumbscrew at the top to alter the flow rate. Cliff Coggin ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "Andy Chapman" Chapmanadx~xxaol.com chapmanad Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:18 am ((PDT)) If so, it may be worth dismantling and cleaning them. On more than one occasion, I have been unable to control the oil flow properly with this type of oiler and it has turned out to be swarf lodged in the needle/seat. AndyC ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "youra_windsor" youra.turceninoffx~xxgmail.com youra_windsor Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:19 am ((PDT)) Hi. The Speed10 has caged ball bearings, whilst the earlier ML10 has plain bearings, so lubrication for the two types is different. In my ML10, I use the same Nuto oil, and I've certainly noticed more flow through the 'nose' end bearing than the other end, but I've not really measured it, as I just have the very small cup type oilers. One thing that I have noticed though is that oil consumption is VERY much higher when running the lathe in reverse (i.e. the cup empties after only a couple of revolutions). I also have no noticeable play in the bearing. Youra ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "svenalferink" sven.alferinkx~xxwur.nl svenalferink Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:21 am ((PDT)) I have a first type ML10 that has cups instead of the later type grease nipples. The oil cups are just cups with an upwards protruding tube in the middle in which the wick (an U -bended piece of pipe cleaner actually) sits. See the top drawing of an ML10 here http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford/page4.html for how it looks, allthough it is very small in the pic I could not find a better pic. So not the more fancy adjustable drip oiler types like on the ML7. These older type ML10 lathes have the spindle bearing directly in the cast iron headstock. So no bronze-, ball- or taper- bearings. That is probably the reason that it needs the rather liquid Nuto H32 oil for lubrication. I hope this info helps to answer my oil consumption question. ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "Andy Chapman" Chapmanadx~xxaol.com chapmanad Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:55 am ((PDT)) Is it worth experimenting with different wick materials? Or different viscosities of oil? Does the wick rub on the spindle surface itself or does it drip onto it from the end of the wick? Is the setup exactly the same on the front and rear bearings? AndyC ------- (no subject) [myfordlathes] Posted by: "P.J." buxatonx~xxyahoo.com buxaton Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:44 am ((PDT)) I have an ML10 which is also fitted with grease nipples. I wish to fit oilers and have two new ones which are readily available, mine were sold as being suitable for all myfords-but the ML7, etc seem to have the head bearing lubricators that use a 1/8" BSP thread, whereas the ML10 has a much smaller thread. [I am unable to measure at the moment,away from home.] I would be interested to know if the 'modified ML10 has an adapter fitted or if the headbearing housings have been modified. In my opinion a modified housing would be preferable, as the existing thread is too small and weak to support any large/easily knocked oiler. I am considering mounting my oilers remotely and modifiying the grease nipple to accept a pipe-be good to hear thoughts on this. ------- Re: (unknown) Posted by: "Barry Kneller" bkba09515x~xxblueyonder.co.uk barrykneller Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:24 am ((PDT)) > whereas the ML10 has a much smaller thread. It's probably 2BA. Barry ------- Re: (unknown) Posted by: "Andy Chapman" Chapmanadx~xxaol.com chapmanad Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:53 am ((PDT)) If you fit them remotely enough, they will almost certainly use less oil. The pair fitted in the drawer of my tool cabinet use no oil at all. ------- Re: (unknown) Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxgmail.com kstrauss7 Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:12 am ((PDT)) Perhaps the pressure oiling system for a S7 that was described in a recent MEW could be adapted to the ML10. ------- Re: (unknown) Posted by: "chris parr" chrsparrx~xxyahoo.co.uk chrsparr Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:40 am ((PDT)) Here are the correct size of nipples for your ML10 see link below. http://www.lathespares.co.uk/oil-nipples-lubrication-c-31/2ba-oil-nip ple-p-333 ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "bob_gamble2003" rp_gamblex~xxntlworld.com bob_gamble2003 Date: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:33 pm ((PDT)) Sven. This may be a duplicate message - my computer threw a wobbly just as I tried to send it. I have an early type plain bearing ML10 with "small" oil cups fed by wicks. Like your machine, the left bearing uses hardly any oil due to its design, the right certainly needs topping up every time I use it. I assume this is quite normal. At first I was always in trouble with my wife because I was spattered in oil spots after using the lathe. Oil seeps out of the right bearing and trickles down the back of the chuck/ backplate and then sprays everything in line with them! I cured this by simply stretching an "O" ring over the spindle nose so that it rests against the headstock casting. Oil still ran down the face of the casting and then over the bed and tray underneath. I subsequently made up a simple trough under the bearing with a pipe to an old 1lb jar. As I type the jar is about half full of oil! The inner headstock casting was also full of oil so I drilled a drain hole in the casting when I had to change the drive belt. Hope this helps. ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "lioneltedder" lionel.tedderx~xxvirgin.net lioneltedder Date: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:37 pm ((PDT)) Early ML10s had plain bearings with a hardened spindle; the spindle actually ran directly in the cast iron headstock without separate bushes. This was quite a common practice at one time for light lathes and gives good results. Esso Nuto was the oil recommended by Myford. Later ML10 and Speed 10 machines had tapered roller bearing and an unhardened spindle, for which grease was specified. ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "youra_windsor" youra.turceninoffx~xxgmail.com youra_windsor Date: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:49 am ((PDT)) Hi. As I've mentioned, I too have an earlier type of ML10 with the plain cast iron bearings and the small cups, but _no_ wicks - I had never realised that wicks were fitted - is this something I should be concerned about? Bob - your O-Ring sounds like a genius idea, I shal copy with pride as soon as the d*mn volcano lets me get home ! Youra ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "svenalferink" sven.alferinkx~xxwur.nl svenalferink Date: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:49 pm ((PDT)) Hi Youra, The oldest type ML10 seems to have really small (about 0.25" dia) oiler cups without wicks. I have seen one with the ser.no 90498 that has these. My own ML10 (ser.no. 131298) has the somewhat bigger (about 0,5"dia) cups with the wicks. I don't think it's any good putting wicks in the small cups as they don't have the upward protruding tube for the wick. Upgrading to the bigger type cups with the tube and wick might save you time for topping them up. Maybe you can order them from Myford http://www.myford.com/ML10_spares.html ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "svenalferink" sven.alferinkx~xxwur.nl svenalferink Date: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:53 pm ((PDT)) Bob, Thanks for the O-ring idea. I already made a cover over the space between headstock and chuck to prevent the oil splattering me, the walls and ceiling. But the o-ring is a very usefull addition because a little oil still splatters from the backside of the chuck. The o-ring will keep that away. Regards, Sven ------- Re: ML10 headstock spindle oil consumption Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:50 pm ((PDT)) Sven, it sounds to me as though the bore of the RH bearing is no longer circular. Indeed it could be the case that it never was circular, by design. "Lemon" or "elliptical" shapes are sometimes used. Non_circularity might have arisen as a result of normal wear and tightening. Non-circularity means that there will be regions where there is a large clearance, and so an easy path for oil to flow through. Since you didn't detect any looseness in the bearing the only real concern is over the amount of oil it uses. I'm fairly sure that Martin Cleeve used the O-ring mentioned by someone else already to help reduce oil being thrown about. I'm also fairly sure that he had a scheme to collect the oil and re-use it. Much depends on how easy it is for you to obtain oil supplies, and the price. Kevin, NW England, UK ------- Super Seven Wick Lubricator [myfordlathes] Posted by: "jwhbecker" jwhbeckerx~xxyahoo.de jwhbecker Date: Mon May 24, 2010 9:36 am ((PDT)) Hi all, is there a way to check whether the wick lubricator is working as it should? (without dismantling the headstock) I am in the middle of bringing a S7 back to life which has not been in use for some 10, 15 years. All the oil reservoirs I found dry. The two on the counter shaft were no problem. It is more the one for the main spindle which concerns me. The day I got the machine, turning the spindle by hand felt a bit tight (pulley no contact with belt). During the following days I have repeatedly oiled the ball bearings with two, three shots from the oil gun, moved the chuck by hand for a couple of revolutions, and replenished the oil reservoir on the front until after a week or so, the oil surface in the cup remained visible. For me this was the clear sign that the wick had soaked up oil to its capacity. BTW I use Shell Tellus 32. But: turning the spindle does not feel significantly better now. Particularly if compared with a ML7 which I have access to. On this machine the spindle continues to rotate for another half or 3/4 turn after twisted by hand (pulley free from belt). Does the different type of bearing make the difference? Regards the ball bearings: the gap in the spacer ring between them seems to be in the correct position as traces of oil which I put in, come out on both sides of the bearings. Also the slot in the bearing adjusting collar/nut lines up exactly with the scribing mark on the spindle end. So I guess this is still the initial setting how it was when the machine left Myford's. Having all that said, I have to admit, I still do not dare to let the machine run under power for more than 15 minutes (belts set for slow speed, no load), which I do to just spread the oil in the bearings. Unfortunately this is not long enough use to prove a working lubrication wick as the level in the oil cup does not seem to reduce. On the other hand, there are no signs of excessive friction either. The machine runs very quiet and after a 15 minutes run, the headstock casting warms up around both bearings (spindle nose and end) but just enough to be noticed. So from this end I am inclined to say, everything looks okay, stop moaning, go! What is your opinion? Am I worrying too much? I can already hear you saying: go, make some swarf. Thanks Jochen ------- Re: Super Seven Wick Lubricator Posted by: "Chapmanadx~xxaol.com" Chapmanadx~xxaol.com chapmanad Date: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am ((PDT)) If the wick is working correctly then there should be a slight trace of oil at the chuck end of the shaft. It might be an idea to release the pre-load on the front bearing a little and see if that feels, before adjusting it to the correct setting. It is always good to set up an old lathe from scratch, especially if it has not been used for a long time. I use a very thin michine oil in mine. I tried thicker oils but I found that it flows through the bearing too slowly to give me confidence that it is working correctly. Also, I have dismantled the head-stock, cleaned out the oil-way and replaced the wick with a new one. It isn't particularly difficult to do and I felt a lot better for having done it. The bearings do warm up a little after extended fast running but they should not heat up after a short period of slow running. My guess is that he bearings are too tight and should be loosened and re-adjusted. Cheers, Andy Chapman ------- Re: Super Seven Wick Lubricator Posted by: "MikeD" durnfjmx~xxaol.com durnfjm Date: Mon May 24, 2010 11:36 am ((PDT)) Yep, I agree with that! Slacken the bearings on the LHS of the headstock, run the spindle fairly slowly for a while and flood the front bearing with the CORRECT oil, then set up the spindle's LHS bearings as described in the manual - (I assume you have access to that?) - then run it again for a number of minutes at high speed. Assuming that your bearings don't get very noticeably warm, or make any unpleasant sounds, you should start to make some swarf. ! ! ! Actually, IMHO, it's quite difficult to know for sure if the wick oiler IS working - I worried about mine for months after I bought my S7 (many years ago), and replaced the wick, and generally fiddled about with it, but after I had stopped worrying about it, it actually works fine. I top up the oiler every time I use the lathe, (2 or 4 times most weeks), and usually (but not always) at the end of the session the oil cup is empty, there is evidence of oil coming from the RHS of the front bearing, as there is within the cover. I often use the lathe at fairly high speeds (Myford purists would be distraught!), and the only time the front bearing ever gets warm is if I use it for heavy drilling (ie. lots of load onto the front of the front bearing). So, do the basic checks, apply best practice, and stop worrying! Stay safe, MikeD in wall-to-wall sunshine (yet again today) Pembrokeshire. ------- Re: Super Seven Wick Lubricator Posted by: "jwhbecker" jwhbeckerx~xxyahoo.de jwhbecker Date: Mon May 24, 2010 2:45 pm ((PDT)) This is what I like here at myfordlathes: you rush to finish your posting because your good soul calls for dinner, and faster than you have finished and emptied your second glass of Rheingau Riesling (I live in that region) you have got two answers in reply! Not only two answers but answers which actually focus on your problem. My immediate question in return: Andy, Mike, you both flabbergastingly emphasise on correct oil. Are you saying Shell Tellus 32 was incorrect for the spindle? They told me Tellus was the successor to Vitrea!?! Temperature of bearings: The bearings are not getting hot. They warm the casting immediately around them just enough so that you can feel the difference to the cold metal in the not so near vicinity. Wick: Meanwhile I have checked the wick by putting a wooden toothpick into the hole just below the spindle nose (usually hidden by the chuck). The toothpick came out wet with what looked like fresh oil. Hmm. This place is significantly above the oil cup, so capillaries still work. BUT: this does not necessarily mean the wick touches the spindle. I have meticulously cleaned the spindle nose and what can be seen from the bronze bearing. Tomorrow I will do another 15 minutes run to see, whether there are traces of oil in the gap. Mike: with slacken LHS bearings, you mean opening the RHS nut of the two large nuts (C-spanner) which hold the outer rings of the bearings? This would allow to move the spindle to the right hence out of the taper. I will come back tomorrow with new findings. If there are. Thank you for your help. Greetings from Mainz on Rhine (sunny as well!) (all day!) Jochen ------- Re: Super Seven Wick Lubricator Posted by: "Andy Chapman" Chapmanadx~xxaol.com chapmanad Date: Mon May 24, 2010 3:32 pm ((PDT)) I belong to a couple of motorcycle owners forums and one of the subjects that always generates a warm response is oil. Every now and then somebody asks what oil is best for a particular bike and then stands well back. You are always guaranteed a large number of responses, from the bigoted to the pragmatic. I don't recommend the oil that I use, I just use it. That is because it does what I want it to do and I don't much care whether it does what anybody else wants it to do. I use thin oil for the wick because, on my lathe, it consumes it at about what I consider to be the right rate and because I can see that it penetrates to the extremities of the bearing face. I use thicker oil (about a 40 grade) on the counter-shaft and the rear spindle bearings for similar reasons. I.e. it does what I want it to do. I make no recommendations, I have arrived at my solution by trial and error. It won't suit everybody. Cheers, Andy Chapman ------- Re: Super Seven Wick Lubricator Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net cliffcoggin Date: Tue May 25, 2010 1:26 am ((PDT)) Thanks for a bit if common sense Andy. People still regard oils as alchemic potions with magical properties, each unique in its own way, and each impossible to be substituted by any other. The reality of course is somewhat different, and I speak here as a chemist all my life. May I present a few of my own observations: [1] One manufacturer's particular grade of straight mineral oil is virtually identicle to every other manufacturer's oil of the same grade, so it doesn't matter a damn whose you use. Forget the names and the brands, look instead at the specification. [2] Too much oil is better than too little oil on Myford spindle bearings. [3] The wrong oil is better than no oil at all. Regards, Cliff Coggin ------- S7 gearbox questions [myfordlathes] Posted by: "obald102" obaldx~xxihug.co.nz obald102 Date: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:22 pm ((PDT)) I have just taken possession of a Super 7 having spent the last eighteen months taking my first steps into the machining world with an ML7. Different animals altogether, of course, and my new machine has a quick change gearbox. Very nice. However a couple of questions. 1) Lubrication. Is it essential to use the Esso Febis K68 or the equivalent from the other companies? I assume I am going to have to look at specialist lubrication shops as garages aren't going to have it like they stock motorbike fork oil for the Nuto ISO 32 used elsewhere on Myford lathes. 2) The fine feed feature. I seem to remember somewhere that I should not be using this with the higher spindle speeds. Is this correct? Oh and a non gearbox quesion. Does the lathe always make a lot more 'geartrain type' noise when using backgear? It runs with a beguiling silence when the backgear is dissengaged but the peace is somewhat shattered when slowing down for thread cutting for example. It doesn't sound dangerous but just, well, noisier. ------- Re: S7 gearbox questions Posted by: "Ian Strickland" ianstrickland733x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:44 am ((PDT)) Hi, I too have recently upgraded from an ML7 to a Super 7. I think the lubrication regime recommended by Myford assumes heavy usage. I only lubricate the headstock and idle pulley bearings on a daily basis. The rest I do about once a month. I would stick to Nutto 32 for this and most of the other bearings. Good old engine oil does for the rest. I ran my ML7 for 40 years on engine oil and had absolutely no problems. As to spindle speeds the only restriction is not to use the two highest back gears in the high speed range. It is certainly OK to use fine feeds with any speed. Hope this helps. Have you downloaded the Super 7 manual elswhere on this forum? Regards Ian Strickland ------- Re: S7 gearbox questions Posted by: "alan" lubetkin1934x~xxyahoo.co.uk lubetkin1934 Date: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:46 am ((PDT)) Hi. I have owned and operated various Myfords for 20+ years. Currently using an ML7 I have restored and am upgrading with DRO etc. The others came and went due to pressure of space, money and time. C'est la vie! I hope and expect this one has found (like me) a last permanent home. Now -- on topic. I have never used anything other than ordinary engine oil for lubrication. I think the point is not so much 'which oil', but how generously you apply it, and how clean you keep the ways. Crankcase oil is made to perform under conditions far more severe that a Myford ever contemplates, and £ millions have been spent on its development. So, for me at least 10W-40 liberally applied with the surplus regularly cleaned off does it every time. Alan ------- Re: S7 gearbox questions Posted by: "Andrew Chapman" Chapmanadx~xxaol.com chapmanad Date: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:09 am ((PDT)) That's fine but the only thing to consider is whether any of the more aggressive additives in modern engine oils are unfriendly to the bronze bearings, particularly the main ones on the head-stock. I own a classic Ariel motorbike and I never use modern oils in the engine or gearbox for exactly that reason. Old plain bearings are not compatible with modern motor oils. I also use the "vintage" engine oil (straight 30 or 40) on my lathe, safe in the knowledge that it is not eating away at the bearings. Kind regards, Andy Chapman ------- Re: S7 gearbox questions Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net cliffcoggin Date: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:14 am ((PDT)) It's only EP (extreme pressure) oils such as Hypoid differential oil that will damage bronze bearings, because the sulphur compound in the EP additive attacks copper. Engine oil additives such as viscosity modifiers, detergents, anti-oxidants etc. have no influence at all outside an engine so they can be used with equanimity on lathes. Cliff Coggin ------- Re: S7 gearbox questions Posted by: "Alan Moore" a.j.moorex~xxbtinternet.com alan4227 Date: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:16 am ((PDT)) Hi Alan, Yes, modern engine oils are the result of enormous development effort, but they are are designed for a different set of circumstances from a model engineering lathe. They are designed for flood lubrication of bearing surfaces at elevated temperatures using continuous filtration, to have low viscosity at room temperature and they have anti-oxidant additives to counter the acids produced during cold starts. Lathes, on the other hand, require oils which have good film strength in the presence of dirt (for the slideways) and which don't become gummy or cause corrosion over extended periods. They only have to perform at room temperature (or near). As other people have said, if you don't want the expense of special machine tool oils you are probably better going for EP gearbox oils or the old-fashioned straight engine oils - SAE 40 or 50. Regards, Another Alan ------- ========================================================================= NOTE TO FILE: Following is the date in 2010 at which I went beyond merely collecting daily digests from the MyMyford and myfordlathes groups at Yahoo. I started to extract significant conversations from the digests on an ongoing basis, and edit them and reformat them and insert them into the files here. Update: As of July 2015 I'm all caught up by adding several earlier years of pertinent messages from the MyMyford and myfordlathes groups. And I am still putting Myford group information into generic files like Lubrication General if it also applies to other machines, so check those generic files too. ========================================================================= ------- quick-fire questions from a beginner [myfordlathes] Posted by: "jamiecrooks23" jamiecrooks23x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:19 am ((PDT)) Hello all, I am a beginner, with an early ML7. So far i've been cleaning, greasing, reading the manual(s) and all seem to be running well. Along the way, several things i've wondered haven't come to light, so here's a quick-fire list of those niggling questions tha i can remember right now: I hope your collective wisdom can easily answer! Am i correct that grease should not be used anywhere on the ML7? Which oil should i use? (does it matter?) Do i need a 'proper' oil gun, or can oil be 'encouraged' into nipples by depressing them with a small pointy thing? The lubrication chart in the Iain Bradley book says for point 4: "Headstock Pulley. Lubricate with oil gun frequently whenever the reduction gear is used, via the oil nipple at the large end of the pulley". I'm really struggling to find where this means.! Why/when will i ever need reverse direction? I read somewhere it should only be used at slow speed no load; and surely the chuck/faceplate would unscrew? Items that fit into the tailstock seem to be on a taper - is there a risk that they can become stuck in there? The handle for engaging the belts seem to sit mightily close to the end of the spindle (rotating at some speed with a grub screw sticking out) - is this normal? (seems like an accident in the waiting, i'll find a cap to go over the end of the spindle end at least; or is the idea not to move this lever while the motor is running?) Thank you! Jamie ------- Re: quick-fire questions from a beginner Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:01 am ((PDT)) jamiecrooks23 wrote: > Hello all, > I am a beginner, with an early ML7. So far i've been cleaning, greasing, > reading the manual(s) and all seem to be running well. Along the way, > several things i've wondered haven't come to light, so here's a > quick-fire list of those niggling questions that i can remember right > now: I hope your collective wisdom can easily answer! > Am i correct that grease should not be used anywhere on the ML7? > Which oil should i use? (does it matter?) Myford recommend Esso Nuto, which is a hydraulic oil. I have always used motor oil with no obvious detriment, but I suppose Myford make their recommendation for a reason. http://myford-rebuilds.com/Lathe-lubricant > Do i need a 'proper' oil gun, or can oil be 'encouraged' into nipples by > depressing them with a small pointy thing? You'll need something like this one... http://www.lathespares.co.uk/oil-nipples-lubrication-c-31 I replaced all the nipples with standard grease nipples and converted a full size grease gun to use oil. > The lubrication chart in the Iain Bradley book says for point 4: > "Headstock Pulley. Lubricate with oil gun frequently whenever the > reduction gear is used, via the oil nipple at the large end of the > pulley". I'm really struggling to find where this means.! Lift up the headstock belt guard and the oil nipple is at the right hand end of the headstock (bottom) 3 step pulley. > Why/when will i ever need reverse direction? I read somewhere it should > only be used at slow speed no load; and surely the chuck/faceplate would > unscrew? I've never used it, but no doubt it must have its uses. > Items that fit into the tailstock seem to be on a taper - is there a > risk that they can become stuck in there? Not really as they can be knocked out from the other end. It's a standard No.2 Morse taper. > The handle for engaging the belts seem to sit mightily close to the end > of the spindle (rotating at some speed with a grub screw sticking out) - > is this normal? (seems like an accident in the waiting, i'll find a cap > to go over the end of the spindle end at least; or is the idea not to > move this lever while the motor is running?) The grub screw would normally be flush, but you wouldn't normally need to touch the handle when the lathe is running. I'm guessing you don't have a manual for the lathe. If I am correct, go to the myfordlathes group and there is a pdf copy in the files section. ------- Re: quick-fire questions from a beginner Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:09 am ((PDT)) Jamie. Taking your questions in order: I can't think of anywhere that requires grease on the ML7 but never is too strong a prohibition. I have used it during assembly of the countershaft and clutch. Any oil is better than no oil, but ideally SAE 32 should be used, which is available in small bottles from Halfords in red bottles labelled hydraulic jack oil. You only need a proper oil gun if the lathe has the later oil nipples that actually resemble teats. Early ML7s had simple spring-loaded ball oiling points that an ordinary pump action oil can will fill if you hold the end of the spout onto them. Later ML7s had the oil nipple in the end of the pulley as mentioned by Bradley. Early models had the oil point in the centre pulley of the cluster of three. Remove the grub screw you will find there, squirt some oil in, then refit the screw until flush but not deep enough to contact the spindle. Reverse gear is handy for screw cutting and indeed it will try to unscrew the chuck if it is not set tightly. In practice it is rare for that to happen, in fact most people have trouble removing the chuck because it is so tight screwed on. If you keep the taper in the tailstock clean and lightly oiled it is easy to release anything gripped in it by gently knocking a metal rod into the far end. I use the 3/8" handle of my tool post socket. I can't visualise what you mean by the handle that engages the belts, but perhaps you have the Trileva gearbox that I am not familiar with. Put a picture in the photos section in case you have a modification. Cliff. ------- Re: quick-fire questions from a beginner Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:25 am ((PDT)) Point by point, Jamie... There shouldn't be a need for grease anywhere on the seven series. Any light oil can be used- I use 30W four stroke lawnmower oil, mainly because it comes in little bottles instead of gallon cans. Avoid 3-in-1, as the lighter fractions evaporate over time, and it gums up. When machining cast iron, I find it best to wipe the bed dry first, as C.I. dust, mixed with oil, makes a great grinding paste for buggering the bed up. A decent oiler is useful, preferably one with a nylon tip on its spout. I have seen the genuine myford one, and it is a complete joke. Keep your eyes out at the local car boot sale. They're cheap enough new. "Pointy things" won't cut it, as the oil won't have any pressure behind it to help it find its way to where it is needed. Sparey has some useful things to say about oiling in his book "A Man and His Lathe", and I'm pretty sure that Guy Lautard's "Machinists' Bedside Reader" books contain something about how to make a myford oiler work. It is imperatve that the pulley block/ mandrel is oiled when using backgear- it -will- seize otherwise. I haven't used a seven for a while now, so my recollections are somewhat vague, but the oil hole is frequently in the bottom of the middle pulley vee, plugged with a screw. When screwcutting or tapping under power, both at low speed, reversing is very desirable. In both of these instances, there is either no load (screwcutting) or very little load (tapping) that will cause the chuck to unscrew, inertia will not be sufficient either. Turning material in reverse should never be attempted on one of these lathes. The taper you speak of should be a morse taper, size number two (2MT). It was designed as a self-driving taper, and sometimes shanks can decide to be stubborn. All that is needed for ejection is a length of brass rod through the spindle or mandrel, and a sharp tap with a mallet. I would shorten your "sticky out" grubscrew just to remove the hazard, but you should never be playing with the belts with the motor on, anyway. As to the position of the lever, if nothing is fouling, it ain't bust, so don't fix it. Andrew ------- Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 [myfordlathes] Posted by: "pwbrigg" pwbriggx~xxyahoo.com.au Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:28 am ((PDT)) I have a standard ML7 and the little glass oil reservoirs on the spindle empty far too quickly-I understand one drop per minute is what is needed however in 1 hour of work the reservoirs are empty and oil is everywhere. I have tried adjusting them in the past and am becoming a bit frustrated with it all. Can someone offer some advice? Also Shell Vitrea is difficult to come by here(Queensland Australia) and I have been told that engine oil SAE 30 is OK to use. Any advice on this one? I have had this lathe for many years and have only recently got some tuition from a retired modeller who has set me on a better path. I now realise my tool sharpening was the main problem. A great little machine the Myford. Regards Peter ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:44 am ((PDT)) I use a 30W monograde on my lathe. A good engine oil should work just fine, and experimenting with diffferent viscosities will give a degree of control over your drip feed oilers, too. Andrew ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "Andrew Chapman" Chapmanadx~xxaol.com Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:26 am ((PDT)) Those drip-feed oilers are a very crude device. The rate of oil feed depends on the type of oil you use and it depends on the temperature. However carefully you adjust them, they never seem to be quite right for more than a few minutes. They are also very prone to ingress of dirt and swarf, which can have unpredictable results. I replaced mine with new ones but I still couldn't seem to get them quite right for very long. It is certainly worth dismantling them and giving them a thorough clean. Kind regards, Andy Chapman ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "aboard_epsilon" aboard_epsilonx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:02 am ((PDT)) Engine oil may cause it to rust believe it or not, as it's designed to hold water in suspension and not repel it. In an engine the oil gets heated up and the water content is boiled away; on a lathe it isn't ... it will absorb moisture out of the air. When I left some parallels covered in engine oil, they rusted soon afterwards. I was confused by this and asked in the forums ... the answer above is what I got and I think it's dead on the mark. Standard hydraulic oil should be better ... it's quite cheap as well usually less than £7 a gallon and comes in lots of different grades. If you really want something for the job, Mobil DTE light is a steam turbine oil / hydraulic oil ... it's iso32 ... sadly only sold in 5 gallon cans and costs in excess of £50. all the best mark ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "Andrew Chapman" Chapmanadx~xxaol.com Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:36 am ((PDT)) Yes but the oil is for lubrication, not rust-proofing. If you are worried about rust you can spray some ACF50 around the place. Engine oil is just fine for lubricating the bearings. More or less any kind of engine oil will do the job and 30w monograde is as good as any. Kind regards, Andy Chapman ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:53 am ((PDT)) I have always used whatever engine oil I have had lying around and never seen any rust. I coat tools, that don't get used from one year to the next, with engine oil, and they don't rust. This in a garage where there is plenty of condensation in winter. Oil used has been 10/40, 15/40, 10/30, mineral oil, synthetic, semi-synthetic. I thought hydraulic oil was hygroscopic, though that might not be true of newer oils. The drip feed oilers are a pain, and the after market ones usually worse because you can't see the oil drip. In the two different ones I have had, the oil runs down the side of the sight glass. Was it Tony Jeffree that designed an oiling system for the Myfords? Overkill for my use of my lathe, but an interesting project that appears to be just about fit and forget. ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:54 am ((PDT)) Water is a product of combustion. This is why engines used for short periods develop that cream cheese inside the oil filler cap -- the oil doesn't get hot enough to drive the moisture back out. Oils are seldom amphoteric, and dependent on the local climate (indoors in my case) this does not cause a problem until a dew point is reached. If this is the case, even dewatering oil isn't effective as a protectant. What is, is a solution of vaseline dissolved in petrol -- dabbed on with a brush and undisturbed, this will protect for years, as will neatsfoot sludge. A bit of an answer to a question not asked? And ask yourself, how much harm befalls the engine in your mower between seasons? I use my lathe a lot more often than my mower. Andrew ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:07 am ((PDT)) Well, in contrast to some folk's experiences I have to say that the drip feed oilers on my ML7 give no problems whatsoever. Mine are set rather leaner than your rate, probably closer to one drop every three minutes or maybe just a bit faster than that. My oilers are the originals fitted by Myford .... some folks are not altogether happy with some of the third party replacements. Understanding how they work is vital to proper adjustment. The toggle at the top is an ON/OFF control. When the toggle is horizontal the spring- loaded needle should be fully off ... this is how you leave it when it's not in use. When I come to use the lathe, every time, I lift the toggle up as far as it will go and watch as five or six drops of oil go through, then release the toggle and set it in the vertical position. This raises the needle off its seat by a tiny amount, which you adjust by means of the knurled nut. A bit tedious to set as you have to loosen the lock-nut underneath (but you only have to get it right once). Turning the knurled nut so as to raise it has the effect of increasing the oil flow. Having dosed the bearings with a few drops of oil, I always rotate the mandrel by hand just a few times, to ensure that the oil is distributed where it's needed. The oil system is total loss (as Tony wryly noted!) and having a drip tray helps considerably. When I lived in NW Australia I fed it with two stroke engine oil, but now back in the UK I use ISO 32 hydraulic oil. I bought a 5 litre can, but smaller pack sizes can be found labeled as oil for hydraulic jacks. The important thing is to protect those bearings ..... if they become warm (what's "warm"? ... well, just warm, certainly not hot) after prolonged running then all's well. In the grand scheme of things the oil is cheap enough so there's no point in skimping. Kevin, NW England, UK ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:17 am ((PDT)) Yes that was my design. As you say, fit and forget, except that you do need to pull the plunger from time to time. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "karen_ozau" karengx~xxa1.com.au Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:16 pm ((PDT)) Hi Peter, I use air tool oil in my ML7, or hydraulic jack oil. Karen ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "Peter Brigg" pwbriggx~xxyahoo.com.au Date: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:07 pm ((PDT)) I cleaned out the oilers this morning and saw how they work -- it appears to be better now, more controllable. Plus some of the details from these emails has helped. I suspect the type of oil is not so critical -- as long as there is oil running all is OK. Regards Peter Brigg ------- Re: Adjusting oilers on Myford ML7 Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:59 am ((PDT)) Control of the flow rate is quite coarse, with a small adjustment causing a large change, however it should be possible to get to an acceptable rate of drippng if there is no dirt in the oilers. Try dismantling and cleaning them, but take care not to tighten the threads too much on assembly as it is easy the break the bottom out of the needle valve which is only soft soldered in place. When it comes to lubrication any oil is better than no oil, and too much oil is better than too little. I use SAE 32 hydraulic oil on my ML7 which comes closest to the manufacturer's specification. Cliff Coggin ------- adjusting oilers on trhe ML7 - OT ? Posted by: "DennisF MacIntyre" a1g2r3ix~xxyahoo.ca Date: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:52 am ((PDT)) Dear Group: Do folks in Europe have pipe threads of the tapered type? This post is commenting on one line in the post;- "but take care not to tighten the threads too much on assembly," though the post was rightly referring to the oilers, let me urge, particularly new hobbyists to, when dealing with tapered type threads on pipe, such as we have in North America, to tighten enough, but not over-tighten any tapered pipe threads. When I have observed folks really tighten tapered threads, I have observed how the female fitting gets stretched. If Teflon tape is used, be particularly careful as with its use so much less leverage is needed. Use the tape or use other pipe dope and use discretion when it comes to muscle. As you are measuring up, planning your job, figure an extra 1/2" per thread. With new fittings that should roughly be tight enough in my opinion. If the pipes are for vapours, check with soap-bubbles. Ta. keep smiling dennis mac ------- Re: adjusting oilers on trhe ML7 - OT ? Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:09 am ((PDT)) Yes, we do have tapered pipe threads (B.S.P.T.), but also parallel series of the same pitch. If memory serves, the myford oilers are 1/8" B.S.P. parallel, although I'm sure that your warning will be heeded for other applications. Our taper threads are designed to engage at the fifth thread, with a "nip" to seal them, much the same as your N.P.T series. In the myford application, 28 tpi is pretty fine to be threading into the alloy bearing caps, and these would be stripped all too easily if appropriate care were not taken when doing them up. The temptation to give oilers "a bit more of a tweak" to get the sight glasses in the right place could be just enough, and fibre washers should be used. Andrew ------- Re: Oil Gun [myfordlathes] Posted by: "David Everett" deverett2003x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:43 am ((PDT)) From: don.hammond13 Sent: Monday, 26 September 2011, 13:44 Subject: [myfordlathes] Oil Gun Received a Myford oil gun with my Super 7. Can not get it to work. What is the secret? thank you, Don Strange. Usually oil comes out from everywhere! For starters try poking something up the nozzle to make sure the ball is free. Are you sure the oil nipples on the lathe are not blocked? Dave ------- Re: Oil Gun Posted by: "DONALD EDWARDS" edward.darcyx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:02 am ((PDT)) Don, An old dodge from the forties, insert a small piece of open-weave cloth between the gun nozzle and the nipple to improve the initial sealing between them, the oil will force through the weave. Secondly, make FULL forward strokes of the gun and ensure that you allow the body to return slowly without breaking the seal between the nozzle and the nipple. The action of the Tecalamit pattern oil gun is dependant upon this seal to maintain the internal feed. Once the gun is fully charged You'll find it works fine. Cheers, Don Edwards P.s. The Model Engineer letters pages of the fifties were full of letters complaining of difficulties with these oil guns, so you are not alone. They were standard toolkit issue with motor cycles and many cars of the thirties and forties. ------- Re: Oil Gun Posted by: "Don Hammond" don.hammond13x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:21 am ((PDT)) The nozzle is open as I can see. I will now try the seal method. Jay ------- oil gun Posted by: "we'realldoomed" sardinesarniex~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:11 pm ((PDT)) Hello all. I have an oil gun for my lathe. The manufacturer is Wanner, which is a good make, so I'm led to believe. It is the cylinder, pump type designed to oil the nipples found around Myford lathes. Unfortunately it leaks oil. I've taken it apart, but can't see anything amiss. The leak is much worse if I leave it with the nossle end pointing downwards. Left with the filler cap pointing downwards, the leak is still evident, but less so. Do they all leak? Is there a cure? Many thanks, Kind regards ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Don Hammond" don.hammond13x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:45 pm ((PDT)) Mine does not leak, but then it does not pump oil either. Don ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:11 pm ((PDT)) Is it same as mine, gathering dust in the corner of a drawer? I may have mentioned it previously, but I made an oil gun from a lever action grease gun and drilled and tapped the existing holes for larger grease nipples to suit. Martin ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:21 pm ((PDT)) Maybe I should mention you can convert a standard grease gun to oil: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/oilgun/gunconvert.html I use this all the time on a mill to lubricate the ways; it is used inverted. I hang it nozzle side up from a hook, although I have not seen any oil leakage. Standard nozzles are for zerk fittings, which are larger than Myford oil fittings. I will say my oil gun has great pressure, and the oil does not leak during injection. For the Myford I still use the universally hated stock oilers. Robert Mitchell ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Don Hammond" don.hammond13x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:59 pm ((PDT)) Since I must have the hated, not working Myford oil pump, I ask what is the replacement for it? Don ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:35 pm ((PDT)) Don, I've seen good reports of this one: http://www.lathespares.co.uk/oil-nipples-lubrication-c-31/new-oil-gu n-myford-lathe-p-528 I prefer the grease gun mod that Robert linked to as it gives really good pressure with no leaks. I already had an old grease gun, which I altered a slightly different way, and a supply of grease nipples, but they are cheap to buy new. Martin ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Don Hammond" don.hammond13x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:39 pm ((PDT)) Martin: That gun looks like the one I have. I have read the one I have, when working, sprays the oil all over the place. Is this German one better? I like the idea of the gun that grabs on to the zerk for a good positive fit. Don ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:05 am ((PDT)) Don, I have seen that oil gun and it looks well made, but I've not seen it in use, so I can only repeat what I have heard and read. The grease gun mod I have done, so I can vouch for that working perfectly. Someone on the ME magazine forum did a simple mod to one like yours, using a rubber grommet. http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/albums/member_album.asp?a=15424 The oil gun that came with my lathe was same as this one http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/haydut1200/tecalemit.jpg and is a complete waste of time. I know the history of my lathe and the first owner owned a local garage and engineering shop, so it's possible mine came out of a toolkit supplied with a 60/70's car. Martin ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Boz" melodycsaxx~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:34 pm ((PDT)) I have the lathespares.co.uk one, bought a few months ago. I have standard nipples on an early ML7R, and use AW32 hydraulic oil. I've had most consistent success with the "through a rag" method, and then you always have a rag at hand to mop up any spillage! You must have the gun straight on to the nipple, difficult with a couple of the more awkward ones, and you just need to "go for it" with a firm, full-stroke push. The gun itself doesn't leak (yet?), I always store it sitting on its filler end. Took a while to get the hang of it. I've got a Reilang oilcan for the the rest of the oiling, the first totally drip-free oilcan I've ever had! I just can't believe I've spent so much just to get oil into the thing... Boz ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Barry Forrest" 2barryforrestx~xxtiscali.co.uk Date: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:44 am ((PDT)) Hello Don, we'realldoomed, etc I can see that the "oil gun" issue is still with us. I also had the oil up the sleeve and everywhere but where it should be experience and "fixed" it by designing my own oiling nozzle. I made a prototype (which I am still using and one of these days I'll make a properly finished one!). The nozzle fits on to the end of an inexpensive pump action oil can (mine cost £1-99p when on offer). You may need to change the nipple end of the gizmo if your lathe has different nipple types! David Clark obviously thought it a useful gizmo and printed the full description with pictures and drawings in Model Engineers Workshop (No. 178 July 2011). If you haven't got access to the mag. or the online archive contact me off-group and I'll send you my rough drawings etc. Regards Barry Forrest ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:08 am ((PDT)) Hi Barry, When I saw the aricle in MEW, my first thought was that there wouldn't be enough pressure from the oil can for some of the oiling points. Obviously that's not the case, and if I hadn't already done the grease gun mod, I think I would have had go at your design. Martin ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Don Hammond" don.hammond13x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:39 am ((PDT)) Thank you all. I am going with the mod grease gun since I have one that I do not use. Will let you know. Don ------- Frome elsewhere talking generally about oilers: "I took a standard grease gun and cut the long tube in half. Took the rod and spring out and epoxied a cap on the end to seal it from leaking oil. Put a flexible hose with a pointed tip on to use on the gits cups. Filled it with way oil, turned it upside down so the oil would flow into the pump. Now have a pressure oil can that I use on all my gits fittings. By the way get the pistol grip type grease gun." ------- Re: oil gun Posted by: "Don Hammond" don.hammond13x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:40 am ((PDT)) I just could not destroy a good grease gun to turn into an oil gun. Bought a NAPA 715-1231 Mini-Pistol Grip grease gun. It was so easy to convert and now I have a great oil gun. Don ------- lubricating wick replacement [myfordlathes] Posted by: "jan.rozendal" jan.rozendalx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:46 pm ((PST)) Hi there, I'm new to these pages. I recently purchased a secondhand Myford Super 7 with power cross feed. It seems to use very little oil from the headstock oil cup for the front headstock bearing. Just to be sure, I would like to replace the lubricating wick. Problem is, I'm a bit afraid of taking apart the headstock from the bed. Has anyone any experience with this? Do you have to re-align the headstock after putting it together again? I would very much appreciate your advise. Best regards, Jan Rozendal ------- Re: lubricating wick replacement Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:07 pm ((PST)) I wish you would get a second opinion from someone in your area before taking your headstock apart. The spindle uses a close tolerance bronze bearing, and does not take much oil. I put a couple of drops in mine every time I use it. ------- Re: lubricating wick replacement Posted by: "Eric Parsonage" ericx~xxeparsonage.com lamestllama2000 Date: Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:51 pm ((PST)) Hi Jan Look at myford's instructions for changing the belt on a super 7. This will give you an idea of what needs to be done. Eric ------- Re: lubricating wick replacement Posted by: "jan.rozendal" jan.rozendalx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:08 am ((PST)) Hi Robert, Thank you for responding to my question. I don't know any other Myford users in my area (the Netherlands) and I have experienced problems with putting my question up to the forum of Model Engineer Workshop. My lathe also uses just a few drops. So that might be normal? I'll follow your advise because I don't want to get in serious trouble with the headstock bearings. Thanks again, Jan Rozendal ------- Re: lubricating wick replacement Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:27 am ((PST)) I think you will really enjoy your lathe. Make sure you have a manual for it, and an oil gun that works. The manual shows the oil points. The oil port in the bull gear is not obvious - but needs oil regularly. I have about 40 years service on mine, and the headstock bearings show no wear. As long as the wick is feeding oil - somewhere, you should be fine. Feel the spindle every so often to verify it is not getting hot if you question oil getting there. Robert Mitchell ------- Re: lubricating wick replacement Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:41 am ((PST)) Jan, when you release the belt tension can you rotate the spindle freely by hand? And after prolonged running does the front bearing feel warm, but not hot? If so, then probably nothing to worry about. My S7 came new from Myford a few years ago, and I have to refill the cup completely each day, so it's a bit looser than yours, but I'm sure that I could adjust the bearings a bit now that it is fully run-in, if I felt the need to. Removing the spindle is fairly straightforward, I did it with another modeleng just a few days ago. There are instructions in the Files section of the website for this list for how to fit a new belt (S7 File, Super7BeltChanges plus supplement). Removing the spindle does not require any re-adjustment of the headstock, though you will have to adjust the bearings, as described in the above instructions. Kevin, NW England, UK ------- Re: Nuto H32 or the equivilent ? [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:20 am ((PDT)) 12 March 2012, "clankennedy2004" wrote: >> Hey guys, Just thought I would bring up the question of Oil again :D Just to make sure your all bored of it :D In all seriousness though I am thinking about purchasing some Goldline HPX 32 which, i am told, is the equivalent of Esso Nuto H32 Hydraulic oil. My local oil supplier hold the Goldline stuff and don't stock Shell or Esso/Mobile oils. The cost is competitive, especially so, as there are no delivery costs ! I can buy a litre for the same or less than what it would cost me to order up a half litre of Nuto H32 online ! What are your views and advice regarding this. My primary concern are the white-metal headstock bearings but everyone tells me that an old lathe like the ML7 will run on just about anything, even engine oil. I think that I will stick with the specification stated by the manual however. I just want to know the pro's/cons of the different brands, IF ANY ! Is Goldline any good ? Sound like a 'cheep' brand but I have no idea. Ive never heard of them before to be honest. << 12 March 2012, Cliff Coggin wrote: > Halfords hydraulic jack oil in a red bottle is ISO 32 which is the same specification as Nuto H32. Halfords may not be the cheapest per litre, but it is widely available and for the amount used in a Myford lathe it hardly seems worth the bother of hunting down a branded oil. Cliff Coggin Kent UK < Thanks Cliff, I am in agreement there in that so long as the oil matches the Myford Recommendations any oil should do. Unfortunately the nearest Halfords is over 100 miles away for me so I'd incur delivery charges. Basically, so far, the Goldline HPX 32 is my best option that I know of with 1 Litre costing £5.40 and it is supposedly the equivalent of the Nuto H32 specified by Myfords. I'm possibly penny pinching on oil and that's something I would never advise as i'd rather spend a few more pennys on oil than a lot of pounds on new bearings. However in this case I think one oil of the required grade is as good as any other with the same specifications. ------- Re: Nuto H32 or the equivilent ? Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:23 pm ((PDT)) I seem to keep my S7 happy with Nuto H32 for the headstock and lube points, generic 30wt non-detergent automotive motor oil for the gearbox, and generic way oil for the ways. 5 gal pail of the Nuto has lasted me about 40 years now... Robert Mitchell ------- Re: Nuto H32 or the equivilent ? Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:33 pm ((PDT)) Thanks Robert. My point is that I'm really after an alternative to Nuto 32 as Esso is no longer about and Mobile don't have a Supplier this far north. So If i order either the Nuto that's still available from a trader or mobile's alternative then i'm going to pay more due to postage as well as traders taking their cut. All i'm really looking for is a liter of Nuto or equivalent for a reasonable price. The Goldline HPX 32 is an oil suppliers 'own brand' so is likely some genreic Hydraulic 32 oil. Don't know if its any good or if it matters as their representitve indicated that Nuto 32 is just a 'bog standard' hydraulic oil anyway. I need a common alternative to Nuto 32 that i can buy locally. -------- Re: Nuto H32 or the equivilent ? Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:41 pm ((PDT)) I've always understood Nuto 32 to be substitutable by generic hydraulic oil. I don't expect there is a lot to choose between brands. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Nuto H32 or the equivilent ? Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:38 am ((PDT)) On March 12, 2012 "Juan C. Pepper" wrote: > Hi to All, As far as I understand, any oil with the equivalent of Nuto 32 will work, none of the points lubricated are under extreme stress, so no need to worry on quality. It only needs to lubricate and protect the parts from wear. Best Regards Juan Carlos Pepper < Absolutely right Juan. Folk should bear in mind that Myford, along with the vast majority of machine manufacturers, knew little about lubrication apart from the fact that it was needed, so when they needed an oil for their new machine in the 1940s they would simply have approached one of the big oil companies, in this case Esso, and asked them what would be suitable. Esso naturally offered Myford something from their own range called Nuto 32, and since then it seems to have been graven in stone that Nuto 32 is the only acceptable oil for a Myford lathe, despite the fact that every other oil company makes their own to the same specification. It is worth repeating that any oil that meets the ISO 32 specification is indistinguishable from Nuto 32. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Nuto H32 or the equivilent ? Posted by: "chris parr" chrsparrx~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:23 am ((PDT)) Have been using ISO/SAE 40 hydraulic oil in all my Myfords: ML10 Super7 280 for over 10yrs now with zero problems, never use brand name oil... Chris ------- Lubrication [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 3:28 am ((PDT)) Please excuse two posts in quick succession. We all know they Myford manual specifies a single grade archaic lubricant. From what I've read here over the past year, most people seem to stick with that or its modern equivalent. Over the years, I've used Mobil-1 fully synthetic motor oil, 20W50 on and in all my tools. I've never had so much as a noisy bearing and I've never seen any adverse effects. Has anyone tried a modern synthetic oil on their lathe? Is there something obvious I'm missing that might cause catastrophic damage using something like that to lubricate a lathe? Brad ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "David Everett" deverett2003x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 4:51 am ((PDT)) Myford recommended oil is a hydraulic oil. You are using an engine oil that contains other additives. I don't know whether these extra additives cause a problem for the bearings, particularly the cone bush, but probably not. Many hobby machinists use whatever oil they can get their hands on. If you are really worried, why not call Mobil's technical help; I'm sure they would answer any queries you have. Dave The Emerald Isle ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 5:36 am ((PDT)) If you decide to contact Mobil. reporting the results of your query here would be appreciated. ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "drew.thoeni" drewtx~xxpobox.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 5:38 am ((PDT)) I believe the difference is the regular motor oils have detergents in them and can cause foaming. Hydraulic oil contains no detergents. I'm using Mobil light hydraulic oil, DTE 24 available in the US at McMaster or Enco (though in large quantities). You could probably find at a local equipment supplier (especially one that deals in hydraulic equipment). Drew ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 5:38 am ((PDT)) I have always used motor oil, simply because I didn't know any better. I never had a manual and didn't know anyone else with a lathe. My business for the last 30 years has been working on cars and motorcycles, so I have used whatever oil I have had to hand, from Castrol GTX, to no name semi synthetic 10/40. My ML7 has had lots of different oils through it over the last 13 or more years and seems OK. Having said that, it doesn't get used every day like some do, so maybe hasn't been used enough to show/develop adverse effects. ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 5:43 am ((PDT)) Motor oil is unlikely to cause foaming in a Myford as it doesn't stay around long enough. A bit like my old Triumph. :) ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 7:15 am ((PDT)) A few facts for you: Any oil you choose will be better than no oil at all. The additives in motor oils will have zero affect on your lathe. Synthetic motor will confer no additional benefits over mineral oil. Cliff Coggin ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 7:24 am ((PDT)) Agree with all that from a practical standpoint. The one thing I find that synthetics bring in this type of application is they don't go manky or rancid with age, so they leave less gum and crap on the machine. Cheers for the feedback. ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "David Alexander" dave_ale2008x~xxyahoo.co.uk dave_ale2008 Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 7:33 am ((PDT)) Darren (the ex Myford fitter) told me earlier today that the H32 Nuto oil is excellent for lubricating everything except the gears in the screw-cutting gearbox, and standard motor oil is fine for that. regards David Alexander Towcester, England ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "John" a.johnwx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 7:51 am ((PDT)) Most lathes seem to recommend an straight sae30 mineral oil but there is no harm usually in going to a higher rating within reason. I used to use motor oil but tried slide way oil for the lathe itself and have used it ever since. It stays there, doesn't evaporate or have a noticeable smell. A little bit goes a long way too. It can be bought from ebay - Vactra number 2 or the same sellers web site. This is SAE 68. One of the most noticeable things about it is that it doesn't oxidise and absorb air. It's intended to be used in the open. Many oils aren't. Lots use sae30 or 40 hydraulic oil for spindles and even gear trains etc. Higher sae ratings generate more friction and heat. I don't have the problem of having to oil plain bearings at the moment but having heard that people have used Vactra number 1 which has an sae rating of 32 I might try it. What should be used is a spindle oil really such as mobil velocite. As the same retailer sells number 6 in small quantities it's probably the right one for super 7 and ml7's and other plain bearing lathes. It's best to ask them. There is also a hydraulic oil that resists oxidation and water absorbtion. That's Nuto. They offer H46 in 1ltrs. This is the same seller as per ebay but they offer a bigger range on the web site. http://www.rhrtools.co.uk/shop2/ All the other sources seem to only offer these oils in 25ltr and that's a bit expensive. These oils aren't cheap but the slideway oil is such an improvement over other oils I have used I would phone and ask them which they feel would be the best for a given spindle application. One problem with using motor oils is phosphor bronze. It seems some of the additives that can be used may attack it. It's also really meant to be run hot, can absorb water and does oxidise. I've been using black castrol moly wheel bearing grease on taper rollers for some time now. It seems to work well. More recently molyslip brand high speed bearing grease from arceuro. Not sure about that one yet. It seems to be a higher pressure stiffer grease than the castrol. John ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "John" a.johnwx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 8:05 am ((PDT)) Took me a while to post this as ate dinner and went out while doing it so now have read the other posts. Just add that the gum etc mentioned is one aspect of oxidisation plus moisture from the air and glad to see myford seem to have the same feelings as me but do check n06 is the right grade. I use slide way oil on the gear train. John ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Gary Billings" obs681x~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 8:55 am ((PDT)) I have no expertise about oils... but this is a recurring topic, so I've searched a bit on the web. By my reading it, looks like Nuto 32 is an ISO 32 oil. And it looks like ISO 32 oils have a viscosity most like SAE 10 (not 30). This surprised me, as I expected ISO numbers and SAE numbers would more or less match up, but they don't. This probably only proves that we're over-worried about what type of oil to use. See for example: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/iso-grade-oil-d_1207.html Down at my local farm supply store, what I believe is the Shell equiv of Nuto 32, is Tellus 32, which costs about 1/2 - 2/3 of what Mobil 1 sells for over at the Wal-Mart, and the price is similar to a non- synthetic motor oil (e.g. 10W-30) in a gallon bottle. Gary ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "John" a.johnwx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:02 am ((PDT)) Looks like I got my sae iso mixed Gary up but I think that explains the nuto I mentioned. John ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 11:32 am ((PDT)) I have to stick in my two cents: I would not use detergent motor oil on my lathe unless I had no other choice. It is great for internal combustion engines - dissolves carbon deposits and keeps foreign matter in solution. Just what I don't want in my gearbox. I use Nuto - or Tellus - 32 for general lubrication. Does not attract moisture like some other oils. I use way oil for the ways - just because it is so good at thin coating with a long lasting film. Nothing better. I use regular motor oil, 30wt, non detergent in my gearbox - and change it whenever I start feeling really guilty. Seems to last forever. I use a spray can of LPS #2 to spray on anything that tends to rust. Great stuff. Good for cleaning light rust too. LPS #3 is very waxy, and good for coating metal objects you are going to store. My other machines are much pickier. Motor oil would actually cause my surface grinder spindle to seize. Robert Mitchell ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "David Everett" deverett2003x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 12:17 pm ((PDT)) Just one question about lubrication that has occurred to me during this discussion: How do the users of Vactra way oil apply it? Through the oil nipples or directly to the ways themselves with a brush, rag or whaterver? Dave The Emerald Isle ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Apr 5, 2012 12:43 pm ((PDT)) I keep mine in a big squirt can. Wipe all the swarf off the ways, squirt oil on the ways before and after the tailstock, then use the tailstock or a rag to even it out. Best thing about way oil - it is very "clingy" (technical term). I really think if you try it, you will use it in preference to motor oil. For things like the lead screw, you don't want "clingy", you want it to drip off carrying swarf with it. Great place for any thin oil. Robert Mitchell ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "John" johnx~xxstevenson-engineers.co.uk Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 3:57 am ((PDT)) I bought a new ML7 in 1969 and installed it at work in a commercial vehicle garage. It did some serious work whilst I had it and throughout its life it ran on Castrol Rotella diesel engine oil which is highly detergent. Diesels need high detergent oil to stop carbon forming in the cylinders. I only used this because it was located at the side of a 900 gallon tank of the stuff My take on it was any oil is better than no oil and it's total loss anyway, not like it can stay in the system as in an engine. Later on in its life I did away with the sight feed glasses and fitted a pressure oiling system, similar to what is available today but Techcalamit were fitting these onto aircraft refuellers in the 1970's. It was sold off a few years ago to Tony Jeffree and has featured in many of his projects, one being the conversion to CNC and as far as I know no shims have been removed from the spindle and it's still on it's original white metal bearings. Whilst I owned it the machine had two sets of countershaft and spindle pulleys fitted because it had worn the top speed groove away just to give an indication on the use this machine had. John S. ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "John" a.johnwx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:10 am ((PDT)) I put a small amount on a brush and spread it about on the bed ways. Periodically I do the same with the cross and compound slides. Where a lathe has oil nipples the usual can may be used. >From time to time I give the lathe a complete clean down and apply >it again. It seems to hang around for a very long time. I should add that some prefer the bed dry when machining cast iron because of the dust. That's the sort of thing that causes me to clean the lathe or at least wipe the bed over and apply a bit more. Only problem for some may be the cost but it's not too bad really if a supplier re packages it. 25lts is a bit rich for me at least. John ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "John" a.johnwx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:24 am ((PDT)) Myford passed more or less the same sort of comment on to me when I found I needed a new spindle on an ML7. I would assume they used the types of spindle oil mentioned. Seems they had 30 plus year old lathes about that were still fine. I suspect that as I have noticed in toolrooms servicing lathes doesn't seem to be on the agenda for some. When I was trained there were 2 jobs Friday afternoon. Get the mops and buckets out and clean the shop. The other was thoroughly oil machines and top up gearboxes etc. All of the lathes were good, some perfect but mostly ones that weren't used all that much and only by selected people. One lathe a chipmaster had excellent slides but the bearings were worn and there was no adjustment - not one we could find anyway. That one was used by everybody. For just short of a week by 20 or so people per year mostly at the higher speeds to get the work done more quickly. That's why it was there. John ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Pete W." enwodex~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Fri Apr 6, 2012 2:33 pm ((PDT)) My experience is similar to yours, Gary, 32 grade hydraulic oil is what the farmers use in all those hydraulic gizmos that they bolt on the back of their tractors and their volume use has brought down the price charged for the oil provided you buy it from your local agricultural engineers. (Check your local Yellow Pages.) I did that and paid about the same for a 5 litre flagon as I would have paid for a 1/2 litre on eBay. I think it'll last me a fair while, even though the Myford oil-gun puts more oil on me than it does into the lathe oil nipples!! (That's not just the original oil-gun - I also have the more modern gun from Nottingham Myfords.) Best regards, Pete W. (aka 'Enwode') ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "Tim Lund" t.lund378x~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sat Apr 7, 2012 1:12 am ((PDT)) For all of you interested in lubrication I came across this reference chart which you may find useful. www.farwestoil.com/crossreference.pdf Tim Lund ------- Re: Lubrication Posted by: "John" a.johnwx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 7, 2012 1:44 am ((PDT)) Useful. Nuto is now made by mobile is seems and just has numbers eg nuto h6. John ------- Myford oils [myfordlathes] Posted by: "lawrence.atlas618" lawrence.atlas618x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:12 pm ((PDT)) ok been researching oils for the myford including spindle oil...but cannot make a decision need your help Thanks Lawrence ------- Re: Myford oils Posted by: "we'realldoomed" sardinesarniex~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:21 pm ((PDT)) Hi. Esso Nuto H32, Shell Tellus 32. Both are premium anti-wear hydraulic oils. Any hydraulic oil with the "32" designation will do. Kind regards ------- Re: Myford oils Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Sep 1, 2012 1:42 am ((PDT)) I can't help with your indecisiveness, but providing the oil meets the ISO 32 specification it will be entirely satisfactory. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Myford oils Posted by: "Pete W." enwodex~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sat Sep 1, 2012 6:04 am ((PDT)) Hi there, all, 32 grade (hydraulic) oil is what farmers use in all those hydraulic gizmos they hang off the back of their tractors. Farmers don't like paying over the odds for anything - so look in your local Yellow Pages for 'Agricultural Engineers' or 'Agricultural Engineers' Suppliers'. They'll likely sell you a gallon of 32 oil for what the home workshop suppliers would charge for 500 mL. It worked for me!! Best regards, Pete W. (aka 'Enwode') ------- Re: ML7 - repairing oilers [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:04 am ((PST)) noakesgarth wrote: > Hi > Last thing to restore before I give my ML7 a test run - the oilers seem > to still be intact, except that one has lost the parts from the top of > it (the lever that cuts it off). Is it advisable to replace with a new > oiler, or can I attempt a repair? > Regards Garth Should be easy enough to make a new lever, though the oilers are cheap enough. Need to watch what you buy though. I bought a brass one and the thread broke off, and a chrome one which wouldn't turn off. I recently bought a second-hand one of the screw top ones and they seem to be much better quality. Martin ------- Re: Super7b headstock oil just dissapears [myfordlathes] Posted by: "David Littlewood" davidx~xxdlittlewood.co.uk dmlittlewood Date: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:35 am ((PST)) In message <50FF1277.4000906x~xxbtinternet.com>, Kevin writes >Alan Moore wrote: >> What I can't remember is how the plug comes out - >> whether it is screwed or just a press fit. Perhaps someone more familiar >> with the Super 7 could tell us. > >There are details in the S7 manual (files section) in the part that >deals with removing the spindle. There's mention of removing the plug >and using a pin to nail the wick in place so that it and the spring >don't leap out when you pull the spindle. > >If you could establish where the oil is going to, that might help. > >Nuto 32 is the oil specified by Myford and yes, it is fairly low >viscosity. Incidentally, any hydraulic oil of ISO 32 viscosity >specification (and this seems to be the common one) is perfectly >acceptable, and almost always cheaper than seeking out Nuto 32. I use this ISO 32 oil from Smith & Allan for most of my machines: http://www.smithandallan.com/prodpage.aspx?id=2460 Reasonable prices and very quick delivery. The heavier ISO 68 version is used in the gearbox of my larger lathe. David Littlewood ------- Oil Nipple Replacement Question [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Mike Hicknell" mikehicknellx~xxrogers.com Date: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:07 pm ((PST)) To All: While the group is on the subject of lubrication I'd like to ask if people use their oil nipples or have you removed them to go with drip oil cups? To explain I've got a Super 7 and in Canada there isn't the type of pressurized oiler that is sold on the Internet in the UK. Any nipples on a machine here are for grease only. With the cheapest oiler in the UK at 37.5 pounds this would translate with shipping, duties, brokerage fees, etc. to somewhere around $125 USD at my door in Canada - a bit too rich for my blood. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! Mike Hicknell ------- Re: Oil Nipple Replacement Question Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:23 pm ((PST)) Hi Mike the pressurised oiler you refer to is I believe just a pump action thingmy jig which someone has mentioned previously squirts the oil into through the oil nipples at pressure. However others have mentioned that this often results in oil spillage as they often dont 'mate' correctly. I can see that this 'system' would be benificial in that it would allow greater amounts of lubrication to the parts in a shorter period of time but to be honest I think it's a bit overkill. Let gravity do the work! I've an empty plastic bottle with a long hollow needle on the end which was initially used for the refilling of ink cartridges but which i have pressed into service as an oiler for my lathe. The metal tube is strong enough to depress the balls in the oilers I use and i simply squeeze the bottle to expel the oil and to fill the ball oiler chambers with oil. The balls on these oil nipples are little more than dust caps anyway as the 'system' itself isn't pressurised! Then movement and gravity and possibly some capillary action allow the oil to flow over the parts and to lubricate them. I don't see the need for the huge expense of the pressurised oilers which are little more than pressed tin and a thick rubber diaphram. Another instance of greedy skrots out to make a quick buck! It's a market i dont bear to entertain! A lot of parts can simply be liubricated with an oily rag or standard oil can! ------- Re: Oil Nipple Replacement Question Posted by: "Mike Hicknell" mikehicknellx~xxrogers.com Date: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:46 pm ((PST)) Thanks for the tip - I'll be on the hunt tomorrow at our local printer cartridge store! ------- Re: Oil Nipple Replacement Question Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:49 am ((PST)) Why bother? Surely you have a pump action oil can with a spout. That's all I use on mine which has the sprung ball oiling points, not nipples. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Oil Nipple Replacement Question Posted by: "Oliver Egleston" oeglestonx~xxcomcast.net Date: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:07 am ((PST)) Mike, I use an old Eagle pump oiler that I bought on ebay and modified by making a tip for it that is small enough to depress the ball in the oil nipple. Prior to making the small tip, I had relied on the pressure from the pump to depress the ball, but someone on the Myford group that preceded this one asked me if the ball was really being depressed and suggested removing a nipple and making a test on it. I found that, sure enough, the pressure wasn't doing it. So I made the smaller tip which works well enough. The other approach that I started but never completed is to modify a grease gun to make a pressure oiler. One is described in Guy Lutard's "A brief Treatise on Oiling Machine Tools," available from Guy Lutard, who is located in Vancouver, B.C.. (you can find him by Googling). There may be other plans on the internet. Best of luck. Oliver ------- Re: Oil Nipple Replacement Question Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:12 am ((PST)) I use a converted grease gun, but rather than converting the gun to work on the nipples that the lathe is supplied with, I fitted the lathe with grease nipples that fitted the grease gun. I fitted a 45 degree nipple to the one at the back of the saddle to make it easier to get to. I removed the rod and spring from the end cap of the grease gun and blanked the hole with weld. There was a one-way valve to release air at the other end of the gun which I also blanked, and that was it. Only thing to remember is to store it with the business end pointing up, and use it with the business end pointing down. Martin ------- Re: Oil Nipple Replacement Question Posted by: "Don Edwards" wandleside3x~xxbtinternet.com Date: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:00 am ((PST)) Hi All, Re- pressure type oil-guns and oil/grease nipples. An old dodge where the oil/grease persists in coming out around the nipple instead of going where you intend, is to trap a small piece of cloth between the gun nozzle and the nipple. It makes an effective seal and the oil (or grease) just passes through the mesh of the cloth. Don Edwards. P.s. With the usual rider about Grandmothers and egg-sucking. Don't be confused between a pressure-type oil/grease nipple and a 'spring-ball' sealed oil hole, which merely needs any dirt etc. wiped off and the ball depressing with the spout of an ordinary oil-can. In the absence of a suitably small-spouted can, just press the ball down with any suitable 'prodder' and trickle in the oil until the hole is full. ------- Multigrade oil & Glacier bearings? [myfordlathes] Posted by: "hoonerbob" hoonerbobx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:03 pm ((PST)) Hello all, I went to look at an ML7 of early 1960's vintage today. The lathe looks to be in good order and has had little use in the last 20 years. I was slightly bothered when I asked what oil was being used in the headstock bearing oilers and the seller responded by telling me he used 20/50 car engine oil. I know that EP oils can turn some bearings into a golden slush, but should I be worried about Glacier T.1 bearings? I look forward to any comments. Rob ------- Re: Multigrade oil & Glacier bearings? Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:06 pm ((PST)) My 1974 ML7 has survived on engine oil of various flavours for the last 13 or 14 years. I had the headstock apart last year and the bearings are fine. Martin ------- Re: Multigrade oil & Glacier bearings? Posted by: "Chris Parr" chrs_parr14x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:18 pm ((PST)) Hi Rob, I have used Castrol GTX in all my Myfords for over 30 yrs now, with zero problems. Chris ------- Re: Multigrade oil & Glacier bearings? Posted by: "John" johnx~xxstevenson-engineers.co.uk Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:51 pm ((PST)) I ran a ML7 from new in 1969 on Castrol Rotella diesel engine oil with no appreciable wear when I sold it in 1996. This was a lathe in daily semi industrial use. Reason I used Rotella was that the lathe was parked next to a 900 gallon tank of the stuff !! John S. ------- Re: Multigrade oil & Glacier bearings? Posted by: "hoonerbob" hoonerbobx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:04 pm ((PST)) Thanks to Martin, Chris & John for the reassurance. Looks like an ML7 will be taking up residence in the garage very soon. Rob ------- Re: Multigrade oil & Glacier bearings? Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:09 pm ((PST)) Common problem on these small lathes is lack of lubrication - anything is better than none. I will say I only use motor oil (30wt, non-detergent) in the QC gearbox. All the oil fittings get hydraulic oil (Nuto 32). A bit of Rocol grease on the gear train. Anything as thick as motor oil would seize the bearings on my surface grinder in a flash, but lathe bearings are pretty tolerant. Robert Mitchell ------- Re: Multigrade oil & Glacier bearings? Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:59 pm ((PST)) No need to be at all concerned. The problem with EP oils is a sulphurous component that reacts with copper alloys such as brass, neither of which are present in this case. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Possible source of ISO 32 oil [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Pete W." enwodex~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:46 am ((PDT)) busybeingrelaxed wrote: > Having just got hold of an ML10, I wanted to get some oil and > had a bit of difficulty knowing where to go. Hi there, This is a recurring topic on this list/forum. ISO32 is actually a hydraulic oil and is what farmers use in all the hydraulic gizmos they bolt onto the back of their tractors. Farmers don't like paying fancy prices. So I get mine from the local agricultural engineers', a 4.5 Litre plastic flagon for about the same price as you'd pay for 1 Litre on eBay. Best regards, Pete W. (aka 'Enwode') ------- Re: Possible source of ISO 32 oil Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:46 am ((PDT)) busybeingrelaxed wrote: > What do you think? 4.5l should last me a week or two! If you waste the oil like I used to, about double that sounds about right. :D I used to fill the oilers, and I could guarantee I would forget to turn them off, every time I used the lathe. It wasn't a problem for years as I serviced a lot of cars and used the engine oil I had in stock, so it didn't cost me. Now that I am retired, I fill the oilers to about 1/4", then it doesn't matter so much when I forget to shut them off. Martin ------- flat oil nipples [myfordlathes] Posted by: "hoonerbob" hoonerbobx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:56 pm ((PDT)) Sorry for the newbie question, but are the flat nipples screw in or push in fit? I'm going to replace them & don't want to damage anything. I did try the search function with no relevant results. Cheers Rob ------- Re: flat oil nipples Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:43 am ((PDT)) They press in and can usually be prised out easily. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: flat oil nipples Posted by: "David Everett" deverett2003x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:26 pm ((PDT)) Flat nipples? All my oil nipples (on a S7) are 2 BA sprung ball end for a push on oil gun (which usually leaks!) Dave The Emerald Isle ------- Re: flat oil nipples Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:43 am ((PDT)) Yours are a later version, Dave. Nipples like yours have led to the false expectation that a high pressure oil gun should be used, which naturally leaks because the Myfords were never designed for them. The older flat nipples on mine and Bob's machines cannot be attached to an oil gun, so a low pressure pump action oil can is more than adequate to inject oil without all the drama of oil squirting all over the shop. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Picture of Myford oil nipples online: http://tinyurl.com/dyatuso [Note: must log into Yahoo to view them - click on medium size.] ------- Re: Nipple Picture Viewing [myfordlathes] Posted by: "hoonerbob" hoonerbobx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:46 pm ((PDT)) Thanks again Cliff. As you can probably tell this lathe is new to me. So, just to be clear, do I depress the ball and dribble oil in or, is the pressure from my pump oil can sufficient to get oil past the ball valve? Cheers Rob ------- Re: Nipple Picture Viewing Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:19 am ((PDT)) Do whatever it takes to get oil in. I press the tip of the oil can spout onto the ball and squirt the oil in. Cliff ------- Re: Nipple Picture Viewing Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:32 am ((PDT)) That's the way alright- a normal oil can with a nylon nozzle tip is absolutely ideal... Its not that hard to make such a thing if your can doesn't already have one, either. Andrew UK ------- ML10 oil nipples. [myfordlathes] Posted by: "edgaskillx~xxbtinternet.com" edgaskillx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:49 pm ((PDT)) My recently acquired ML10 has 10 oil nipples 2ba with a parallel "upstand" for the oil gun. The original oil gun is long gone but one I purchased recently (with a concave nozzle) will not seal on this type of nipple. Whilst I am as certain as I can be that the nipples are as originally fitted, Myford at Mythelmroyd do not seem to recognise them and suggest that they have been fitted by some previous owner. The nipples they offer as spares have a convex nozzle,and having fitted these, I find the oilgun certainly seals better but there is not enough pressure from the gun (which looks very much like the original) to lift the spring loaded valve. Anyone got any thoughts on the subject? Thanks Ed G ------- Re: ML10 oil nipples. Posted by: "busybeingrelaxed" qthurtlex~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:31 am ((PDT)) I can't help much because I too am a newbie with an ML10. However, I'm sure mine only has three oil nipples (one on the pulley wheel axle in the headstock, one on the tailstock shaft and one on the pulley driveshaft just above the motor, which has pulleys at each end of it). Mine has roller bearings, so for me the two nipples on the headstock are for grease not oil. I have pumped these full of grease, until it oozed out the front and back of the headstock bearing covers, and then I kept going until it oozed out as CLEAN grease. I have a couple of hinged oil cups on the motor shafts (one at each end). As far as I can tell, the rest of the lubrication points are holes or bearings, etc. I think that the oil nipple on the pulley wheel in the headstock is only there to lubricate the axle when the backgear is in use (for very slow speeds). I probably won't be using this at first - I think the backshaft is mainly for turning/flycutting big diameter stuff and for screw thread cutting. Under 'normal' use, I think that the headshaft pulley is fixed stationary on the shaft and is not rotating, so doesn't 'need' a supply of oil. I also have seen that the tailstock nipple looks to be a bane to many people and lots seem to say they just slosh oil on the tailstock from a can and ignore the nipple. Hopefully, someone who knows, will correct me where I'm wrong! Best wishes Q ------- Re: ML10 oil nipples. Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:20 pm ((PDT)) Whatever the manual specifies. The Super 7 has no grease fittings - just oil. Same for my Bridgeport mill. I am surprised the ML 10 uses grease. ------- Re: ML10 oil nipples. Posted by: "David Ingram" davidi1107x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:40 pm ((PDT)) Hello Ed and Q. Yes Q is correct about the grease for his headstock bearing as he has a later roller bearing headstock ML10. This is the only part of the later ML10 to require grease, everything else still uses oil for lubrication. Which type of headstock has your ML10 got - if you are not sure check the Lathes.co.uk website - the older headstock has a bolted down cap top of the bearing and consists of a hardened steel mandrel running in the cast iron head. This headstock needs oil (and regularly). I have been using Nuto 32 oil on my ML10 for 15 years and still have most of the half litre tin, as it's only used in a home workshop; the roller bearing headstock ML10 lathe does not require much oil. Most of the oil points on the standard ML10 can be serviced using a normal pump action oil can as they are either the small spring hinged capped oiling point (need to lift cap to pump oil in which overflows when full) or has the flat push down "grease nipple type" oiling point. Q - my lathe countershaft bearing has the hinged cap oiling point; maybe yours has been changed at sometime. The only oiling point which needs an injection type delivery is as pointed out by Q, where you have to oil the three step pulley/headstock spindle surfaces when using back gear for slow speeds - the book recommends that this needs doing every 30 minutes of spindle operation in back gear. This is a proper grease nipple style oiling point and it has been recommended to me that you put a small piece of fabric between the nipple and the oil gun nozzle when oiling as this seems to stop most of the "oil shooting everywhere" problem with the oil guns. With regard to the tailstock, I normally just oil the outside of the barrel and the feed screw on a regular basis and do not try and use the "oil nipple". When you start using the changewheels, it is a good idea to use a high pressure grease such as one containing molybdenium disulfide (think that the right spelling) as you have a metal to metal intermittant contact on the gear teeth and the standard LM grease will not provide enough lubrication. LM grease is ok on the roller bearings in the later ML10 headstocks. Watch out, the Moly grease makes a mess of clothes and really gets into the skin - put on a barrier cream. Hope this helps. Cheers Dave ------- Lubricanting Myford Super 7 Posted by: "claskid" lawrencemclaren372x~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:34 pm ((PDT)) Easter is fast approaching and I am planning many hours of enjoyment with my son on our newly aquired ML7. It is 30 years since I have used a lathe during my engineering apprenticeship, the first project is a small horizontal mill that a friend has designed specifically for lathe manufacture. Before I get started I want to make sure that I clean and lubricate the lathe properly. Can anyone please recommend the best oil for the headstock bearings, I assume this can also be put into the oil gun that came with the lathe to lubricate other points on lathe as specified in the manual. The manual states ESSO Nuto H44 - is this still available? Any ideas on best price etc. ------- Re: Lubricanting Myford Super 7 Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:55 pm ((PDT)) Yes, Nuto is the best, it is a very light spindle oil suitable for other machines too. Any Esso supplier has it. You might have to go to a fuel depot and buy a 4-litre plastic jug as I did in Ottawa, so it is available world-wide. Any 30-weight non-detergent motor oil is fine for the other applications. That can be had from any service station or the local hardware store - I bought a litre of Castrol yesterday. Andrew ------- Re: Lubricanting Myford Super 7 Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:04 pm ((PDT)) > The manual states ESSO Nuto H44 - is this still available? Any ideas on > best price etc. You can use any hydraulic oil of ISO 32 viscosity. I happen to get mine from a nearby machinery supplier, but Halfords (I see you are in the UK like me) have hydraulic jack oil which is suitable. Oil is cheap, so don't be mean with it! Have fun, Kevin, NW England, UK ------- Re: Lubricanting Myford Super 7 Posted by: "John" johnx~xxstevenson-engineers.co.uk Date: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:32 am ((PDT)) > Yes, Nuto is the best, it is a very light spindle oil suitable for > other machines too. Any Esso supplier has it. It's not a question of being the best. Myfords at that time were signed up with Esso as a lubricant supplier and Nuto was their grade of hydraulic oil which is a light oil with minimum additives. If they had been signed up with Castrol then it would have been whatever Castrol called their hydraulic oil at the time. However over the years this following of "It's a Myford so it has to be Nuto" has evolved. It was quite humorous to see at the Myford sale that the containers of Nuto oil went for about 4 times the price you could buy the equivalent brand for at the local car warehouse. One lot totalling about 4 gallons sold for £125 plus buyers premium and taxes about £172. I pay £38 for 5 gallons of the same [equivalent] stuff. ------- Re: Lubricanting Myford Super 7 Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:56 am ((PDT)) John is quite right. Myford had a brink trade flogging rebranded litres of Nuto and Febis that you could get locally. Esso Nuto is however in the category of oils that you want for the spindle. It is in particular light, runny, and stable under whatever temperature and pressure conditions you get in a spindle. Other brands will work but do avoid anything thick or containing detergent. As for prices - wow. About four years ago I sourced a lifetime supply four-litre jug of Nuto, from the local Esso bulk dealer in Ottawa, for twenty-odd dollars. Possibly the price is now astronomic. If so, other oils of the same class would be expensive. Andrew ------- Re: Lubricanting Myford Super 7 Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:02 am ((PDT)) I couldn't agree more John. To stick to Nuto for a Myford is as daft as sticking religiously to Castrol in your car for example just because the manufacturer recommends it. As long as the oil meets the relevant specification it doesn't matter a damn what brand it is. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Lubricanting Myford Super 7 Posted by: "Don Edwards" wandleside3x~xxbtinternet.com Date: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:13 am ((PDT)) Well said John and Cliff, The Standard Oils/Myford 'kickback' arrangement created an illusion that their 'Nuto' 32 was in some way superior to other refiner's products. Regarding the 'lube' for Myford 7's and similiar plain bearing lathes. A websearch for http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/ will give, amongst other quantity options (e.g. 25L for £50 odd) a 5L container of Premium SAE32 Hydraulic oil for £20.95 + £6.00 p.&.p. I suspect this may be somewhat cheaper than Standard Oil's Nuto 32, but add the usual disclaimer. When I last bought this type of lathe lube, a gallon can of 'Century Oils' product, from a local tool factor, was less than the price of a quart of 'Nuto'. Cheers, Don Edwards ------- S7 headstock Mk1 vs Mk2 [myfordlathes] Posted by: "iangribble" gribblex~xxmanx.net Date: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:46 am ((PDT)) Hi, first post here. I have had an ML7 for some time but am now thinking of replacing it with a Mk1 Super 7. Does the drip oiler on a Mk1 S7 work OK? It didn't seem to last long before it was replaced by the Mk2 with the wick oiler. Does a Mk2 headstock fit a Mk1 lathe, and would it be a worthwhile modification? Thanks, Ian ------- Re: S7 headstock Mk1 vs Mk2 Posted by: "Mike Crossfield" miked.crossfieldx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:25 am ((PDT)) Ian. The drip feed oiler on early Super 7s works just fine. I have such a machine myself, and it's very reassuring to see oil going into the main bearing, and useful to be able to adjust the flow to suit operating conditions. From a conversation that I had with a Myford employee some years ago, the reason for changing the headstock design was that the integral oil reservoir and feed arrangement led to an unacceptable number of castings being rejected during manufacture due to porosity problems. In the opinion of the person I was speaking with, the earlier design was, if anything, functionally superior to the later wick-feed design. You can interchange Mk 1 and Mk 2 headstocks, and since the drip feed headstocks are now 50+ years old, you might feel that this is a good option if the earlier headstock bearing/spindle are worn. However, bear in mind that the front bronze bearing is scraped to match its particular spindle, so you would need to change the headstock and spindle assembly complete or re-scrape the bearing to suit a different spindle. HTH Mike ------- Wick Replacement in oil cups [myfordlathes] Posted by: "clankennedy2004" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:14 pm ((PDT)) Hey folks! I've asked this before but can't find the info. It's regarding the replacement of the wick in the oil cups for my headstock bearings. I've never used anything that has a wick apart from a candle so while i realise that it will feed oil to the bearings i'm not sure if a certain grade of wick is needed to ensure an adequate oil supply! Also how is the wick fitted and secured in place? Does it need to contact the spindle etc etc. It's probabally simple and i'm overthinking the whole thing but i like to have things just so! Also where will i source the correct grade of wick, if any, from? ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:27 am ((PDT)) I use Swan pipe cleaners, but your oilers may need something else. Unravelled cotton pyjama cord is another old favorite. Andrew ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:48 am ((PDT)) I'm finding at the moment that the oil is draining out of the cups at an unsustainable rate but i'm concerned that if i put an incorrect grade of wick or the wrong type of 'filler' into the cups that it will lead to starvation of lubricant to the bearing! How can you assess the rate of oil flow and how do you know what the actual correct rate of oil flow is? :/ i'm quite concerned about this as i've already siezed the bearings once and while i think i've gotten away with it on this occassion it is very poor practice and i wish to avoid any further incidents! I may just go for the sight glass oil cups as at least you can see how much oil is in them at a glance. ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:18 pm ((PDT)) Adams of Coventry are still going, if you look for them. They were the original suppliers, even if their stuff does cost. Years ago, I bought a pair of those cheap ones that you see at the shows, and they were simply unsatisfactory. Like didn't drip, for a start. I remember, years ago, seeing a cross-section of an industrial wick-feed oiler that had a manually operated mechanism that lifted the wick clean out of the reservior when the machine was not in use. Probably Caxton's "Engineering Workshop Practice".... Food for thought? Andrew ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:24 pm ((PDT)) Thx Andrew. Have submited an enquiry to them. I would be interested in your experiences with pipe cleaner and pyjama chord as a boj job solution and how it has worked out for you! ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:37 am ((PDT)) You mentioned seized bearings less than a week ago and were advised to check the thrust bearing before jumping to conclusions about the main bearings. What did you find when you looked? You have looked haven't you? Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:43 am ((PDT)) Hi Cliff, Thanks for your concern. I know I am concerned about this. I am now avoiding any further work on the lathe until I have researced or obtained concise and expert advice regarding the situation. Please feel free to look at these two videos or indeed the whole series although the first videos have very poor video quality due to a faulty camera. Apologies for droning on so much in them but it is actually much more difficult to take video and talk concisely and fluently than it is to type up an e-mail for instance and im just recording on the fly as it were and not following a script or editing the videos in any way. Anyway have a look. Opinions on the bearing damage is appreciated as I am possiabally being optimistic in hoping that they are 'ok' :/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja9z78od2mk Part 14 a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oujxWbbO4SI Part 14b Paul ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Andrew Curl" methuselahx~xxntlworld.com Date: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:05 am ((PDT)) I used ordinary pipe cleaners in a pair of oilers for a Drummond. I bought these already made up, using filthy great Adams "flip-flap" oil cups as reservoirs, attached to existing headstock bearing spreading bolts. They worked just fine, apart from the fact that they would stop wicking until the reservoirs were dry. Using pipe cleaners for oiling wick is something you'll see repeatedly in back issues of the M.E. from the beginning of time! The pyjama cord wick idea was down to my Grandfather, who once made me a plumbers' blowlamp using some. In truth, anything that will become wet at one end will become saturated along its entire length, and do the job. There is a ready source (cheap!) of pukka stuff, which I'll tell you about if you make anything that can use 3/16" diameter material... It's called "DT fuse". Andrew ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Colin Johnson" csjohnsonx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:28 pm ((PDT)) Hi Paul, Are those oilers the one that came with the machine? Mine came with a transparent reservoir and a sight glass, to see the rate of drip feed, The rate being controlled by means of an adjustable needle valve, combined with a toggle switch, which shuts off the oiler. I have used mine since 1956 and only this year replaced them, because the plastic reservoir had cracked. 57 years use so I can't complain. Your system does not appear to have any means of controlling the flow. I got my replacement from Adams, the original supplier to Myford. The one I got was a USFN7409. But it comes in 3 different capacities. It is very slightly different from my original but works exactly the same. The link to Adams lubricators is http://www.adamslube.com/Oilers_Main/Oilers_Cat_PDF/Drip_Feed_Lub.pdf Colin ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:16 pm ((PDT)) Hi Colin. Yes the oilers on my ML7 were fitted when i got her. She's circa 1947 and on the Myford website if you go to ML7 Section and then Headstock section you will see that the photo depicts the same cups as is fitted to mine. I think these were the original type but because they're a prick to use that they were replaced. ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Colin Johnson" csjohnsonx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:56 pm ((PDT)) Hi Paul, OK! they were on your lathe when you got it. Some time along the way someone has made a retrograde step. I would strongly recommend you get a pair of quality controllable lubricators. Why put a great versatile lathe at risk? See attachment :- Myford manual, picture of lathe showing proper lubricators. Colin ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:13 pm ((PDT)) Im entirely with you on that Colin but I am unsure what are a good quality, robust type to buy. I'm specifically wanting to avoid further issues like I've read about with oil leaking and incorrect oil flow etc. Price is also a concern but I would rather ensure an adequate oil supply than risk the bearings which is stating the obvious. However if anyone has used the origonal cups i'd be interested in the running time when full with the correct wicks installed. I know Myford can supply a pair for about £43 but these differ from the originals shown in the picture you attached in the previous E-Mail. ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: sicrosex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:43 pm ((PDT)) Gents. Suggest you look at the following, arecurotrade for oilers http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/Lubrication-Ac cessories Best wishes Stuart Northampton ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:00 pm ((PDT)) Andrew Curl wrote: > There is a ready source (cheap!) of pukka stuff, which I'll tell you > about if you make anything that can use 3/16" diameter material... It's > called "DT fuse". For those who may not know "DT fuse" from chewing gum ..... it's a circular cross-section woven cotton cord, impregnated with potassium nitrate. When you light one end it smoulders like a cigarette, burning slowly at a (supposedly) constant rate. It's used by free-flight aeromodellers ..... dethermaliser fuse, always referred to as DT or D/T. It burns through a rubber band to activate some mechanism that disrupts the flight and causes the model to descend. Very cheap, but you'll have to go to a proper model shop, or online. Might want to rinse a time or two in warm water to remove the potassium nitrate before using it in a lubricator. Kevin (sometime aeromod bod) NW England, UK ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:33 am ((PDT)) Hi Paul. I couldn't see the bearings clearly enough to be certain, but they didn't appear to be badly marked. However there were a few things that did strike me during the films. First, you said you didn't have the cap screws fully tight to avoid pinching the bearings. Those screws should be very tight indeed. If you find that causes the bearings to bind then you need more shims. Loose bearing caps are a recipe for disaster. Second, the oil consumption is ridiculously high. I doubt that your oil cups are original to the lathe and don't know what can be done to rectify them, but I recommend changing to drip oilers with sight glasses. They are available from Adams. Third, the lathe sounds like a bag of nails when running. If that is noise from the guard it is of no moment, but if it is the spindle rattling you could have serious problems. I suggest you start from scratch in your bearing adjustments, for which you will need some shims. Get each cap in turn screwed down very tight. If the bearing binds, add one shim and try again. When complete you should be able to turn the spindle by hand yet have absolutely no movement up and down, even with a lever in the spindle bore. Then adjust the thrust bearing to have no lateral movement yet leaving the spindle again free to turn by hand. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:22 am ((PDT)) Hi Cliff, Thanks for the advice. I may have been a little inaccurate in describing the bearing caps as loose. I have them tight enough that they don't move but i don't have the bolts so tight that they wouldn't tighten up a bit more. I'm scared of stripping the threads! I'm not sure what rattle you're referring to. The generator perhaps and i also think the change gears were engaged. I will have a listen when i next start the lathe up. I've got some oil wick coming home from e-bay and some felt wick coming from the states so hopefully that will resolve the high oil consumption issue. I would like to make you aware that the oil cups are original to early myford lathes. These were fitted circa 1947 or earlier. Not sure when the sight glass type were introduced. I will get some packing made up for shimming purposes. Aluminium coke can or foil should do the trick and then repeat the bearing adjustment as suggested. I can see that using this old school machines is going to require that i brush up on on some old school techniques :D Cheers, Paul ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:50 am ((PDT)) Paul Kennedy wrote: > I will get some packing made > up for shimming purpose's . Aluminium coke can or foil should do the > trick and then repeat the bearing adjustment as suggested. I can see Drink can material is too thick for this job, you need to be able to vary the packing in fine increments. Aluminum foil, well, maybe. But why not get some correct shim material and do the job properly? The bolts should be sensibly tight, so that the shim pack is clamped hard. Use a normal spanner, not an adjustable, not socket set and not a spanner with a piece of pipe to extend it. Just a proper spanner and do then up tight so that the shim pack is solid. ALL adjustments MUST be done by varying the thickness of the shim pack, as others have mentioned often enough before. If you have to slacken the bolts to get the spindle to turn then you need more shims. It is a bit of a fiddle, but it doesn't take long in reality, and you won't have to do it again for years once it's right. Kevin, NW England, UK ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:41 am ((PDT)) Paul. The metal from drinks or any other cans is far too thick to use for shims. I never measured my own but I doubt they are thicker than one or two thou. Get some proper shim material. I tighten the cap screws on my lathe as tight as I can manage with one hand on the Allen key and the other hand on the lathe to stop it sliding across the bench. I estimate that to be in the region of 25 foot-pounds. My own ML7 had drip oilers from new in 1947, since renewed when the plastic resevoirs became opaque and cracked. Every other early Myford I have seen had drip oilers too. Cliff ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:57 am ((PDT)) Thanks for the heads up regarding shim material. I'll see if i can source some locally. I've got my ML7 bolted down on top of the feet to the cabinet which itself is bolted down onto concrete so is secure. You should think about doing this as it helps the reduction of vibration :D Check out the Myford Website: http://www.myford.co.uk/acatalog/MYFORD_ML7_SPARES.html The picture beside the Headstock Assembly link shows my type of oil cup fitted and i'm fairly certain these were common on the earliest lathes but were replaced when the uptake of the improved sight glassess bacome a popular upgrade. Paul ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:45 am ((PDT)) What vibration? Mine is smooth as silk and silent running. Being able to slide it across the bench is useful for cleaning and maintenance. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Mike Crossfield" miked.crossfieldx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:21 am ((PDT)) Myford still sell the correct laminated shims (which consist of stacks of peelable 2 thou shims). I just checked, and a set of 4 (2 front, 2 rear) is 14.32 + vat. A lot less hassle than making your own. HTH Mike ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Colin Johnson" csjohnsonx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:04 pm ((PDT)) Hi Paul, Certainly up to the 70s drip feed oilers were standard. Mine (1956) and a friend's (late 60s) were drip feed. These ones had a screw down needle, that was used to both adjust flow and shut off flow. They had twin snap lid filler caps. They were well made. The ones shown in Adams catalogue are a later improvement on them, being that the flow adjustment can be made and locked and a toggle lever switches on or off. But only one filler cap. The rest of the components are identical and made to the same high quality. There are some imported copies about with thin pressed top and bottoms, and where the flow adjustment is "locked" by means of a thin spring clip. The filler hole is covered by a pressed sliding cover, but when this is moved it rotates the "locking" spring loosing the flow setting. They are rubbish, sharp edges from where the sheet components have been sheared. The threads are a poor fit and they leak around the sight glass. My friend bought some but eventually threw them out and bought some from Adams. As to tightening, the caps just use the standard length Allen screw key (about 3 inches long) and pull tight with one hand. i.e. about 5 to 8 Nm torque. Colin ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "NORMAN HEDGE" Norman.Hedgex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:57 am ((PDT)) Cliff - are you really advocating not fixing the lathe to the bench / stand? A very questionable practice I would think. Norman ------- Re: Wick Replacement in oil cups Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:33 am ((PDT)) I am not recommending the practice, just saying it suits my purposes, which do not require it to be fixed in place or free of twist. Those of you with different requirements should adopt whatever precautions are appropriate. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Drip feed oilers on a ML4 [myfordlathes] Posted by: "davetherave_11" davetherave11x~xxgooglemail.com Date: Fri May 10, 2013 3:50 am ((PDT)) Good morning ladies & gents, As standard, my ML4 has a small brass oil cup over each headstock bearing. When the lathe is running the oil runs straight through the bearings and ends up being thrown everywhere, particularly over the pulleys and thence the drive belt. With the idea of fitting drip feed oilers, I removed the cups. To my disappointment I found that the holes in the bearing casting are not threaded, merely a plain bore. The bore is 1/4". The cups themselves have a tapered shank (probably not the right terminology?) that wedges in the hole. What would be the best way to fit a standard pair of oilers? I was thinking of making a pair of adapters; tapered on one end and tapped at the other. Are there any better solutions? I thought about tapping the casting holes but I don't want to remove the spindle. Thanks, Dave ------- Re: Drip feed oilers on a ML4 Posted by: "A" lubetkin1934x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Fri May 10, 2013 6:31 am ((PDT)) I guess you could try putting a little bit of rolled-up guaze or a piece of string in there to 'slow the flow' - or even make something shaped rather like a rivet you could drop into the hole and reduce the bore diameter. The head must of course be big enough to prevent it falling all the way through. Otherwise your idea of making a threaded adaptor is the best way to go about the job. ------- Re: Drip feed oilers on a ML4 Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Fri May 10, 2013 8:39 am ((PDT)) Dave. If your ML4 is constructed along the same lines as an ML7, and I have no idea if it is, you won't need to remove the spindle because the main bearing caps can be removed independently. That would allow you to tap the holes for drip lubricators like those made by Adams. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Drip feed oilers on a ML4 Posted by: "Don Edwards" wandleside3x~xxbtinternet.com Date: Fri May 10, 2013 1:17 pm ((PDT)) Hi Dave, I have a 'Perfecto' clone of the ML4 and modified it to take a better oiling system. The method was to remove the mandrel from its bearings, thus enabling the existing plain drilled 'oil-holes' to be drilled and tapped (from memory, but it was 1973) 3/16" Whit. But 1/4" Whit. would have been stronger. After re-assembly a couple of wick-type oilers were fabricated from mild steel and equiped with wicks made from pipe-cleaners. The rate of flow of the (SAE 30 Straight Hydraulic) oil being affected by the difference in the lengths of the two ends of the wicks, the longer end inserted into a steel inner tube that passed through the bottom of the oil container and screwed into the headstock casting holes and the other dangling down into the oil contained in the outer reservoir. Although I have passed the lathe on to a newcomer to the game, they are still working well. If intending to leave the machine for any length of time, I lifted the wicks out of the oil to eliminate any syphonic action. The ML4 being a much better constructed machine, you could possibly avoid any necessity to interfere with the mandrel by making a couple of oilers with a tapered bottom spigot to the inner wick-tube and just press (or Loctite) it into the castings. A much simpler proposition and no interference with a nicely adjusted mandrel. Best of luck, Don Edwards ------- Oil Cup Feed Rate ? [myfordlathes] Posted by: "clankennedy2004" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Tue May 14, 2013 1:56 pm ((PDT)) I think this question has been covered before but im shatterd tonight and it's easier to just ask :/ I'm wondering how much oil and at what rate should be feed to the headstock spindle bearings on an ML7? I'm using the old felt wicks so can't really regulate it but wish to test the cups before running the lathe to ascertain if the oil is flowing at an adequate rate except I don't know what the correct rate is! All help is of course appreciated and valued. Cheers Paul ------- Re: Oil Cup Feed Rate ? Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Wed May 15, 2013 1:04 am ((PDT)) Two or three drips per minute. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following response to an old question is concise. Of course there are many more details earlier in this file. ------- Re: Newbie questions Myford tool posts and cutters Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Nov 2, 2013 10:06 am ((PDT)) Any fittings you find on the lathe are oil only, not grease. Use hydraulic oil, not motor oil. Esso Nuto is the recommended. 30 wt motor oil (non detergent) is used only in the qc gearbox. My small tube of roco grease (sticky) is used on the gear teeth, and keeps them quiet. Don't forget the oil fitting in the bull wheel. It is easy to miss. Use way oil on the ways. Use to prevent rust when the lathe is not being used. ------- Re: Newbie questions Myford tool posts and cutters Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Nov 2, 2013 11:08 am ((PDT)) As to lubrication, any SAE 30 hydraulic oil is suitable. It is a myth that Nuto must be used. I suggest you buy an oil gun locally, there being no point in paying shipping for a similar item from the UK. With the exception of the headstock bearings which have oil resevoir lubricators, I squirt oil into all my ML7 nipples whenever the ways look dry. Quite how often is a matter of experience and guesswork, but rest assured you cannot overdo the oil. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Newbie questions Myford tool posts and cutters Posted by: "David Everett" deverett2003x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sun Nov 3, 2013 7:09 am ((PST)) David, I didn't realise you lived 'across the pond'. One thing about ER collets chucks. There are 2 basic styles of chuck mounting: the adapters that screw directly onto the nose and the chucks that mount to a backplate, which in turn is screwed to the nose. If your main interest is in clockmaking, I would suggest the latter style. The reason being that you machine a register on the backplate in situ on the lathe and mount the chuck to that. Should the runout be unacceptable from there, you can reduce the size of the register and 'shuffle' the chuck for minimum run out, possibly dowelling the two together afterwards. If you use CTC collets, they have 2 degrees of accuracy. You pay a lot more for the super accurate collets, but I have found the normal ones perfectly adequate. Myford recommend Esso Nuto H32 lub oil. You can use any 32 grade hydraulic oil in the Oil nipples on the machine - No grease in the bearings; on the gear teeth and ledscrews, yes. Look at the headstock bearing oil cup each time you use the lathe. If it needs topping up, then do all the other nipples. If the ways start to look a bit dry, extra hydraulic oil or even better - way oil (Mobil Vactra No.2 is a good one). For the oil gun, have a look at eBay item number: 121207230861 for style, but not price! Be aware that all oil guns of this type seem to leak from various places. Again, if you are clockmaking as your main interest, I would not go to the expense of a carbide tipped parting off tool. A rear toolpost can be useful, but don't waste money on importing one. For small diameter work, I use a piece of broken hacksaw blade in a home-made holder in the normal front position (although I do have a rear toolpost). There are plenty of sites on the internet giving ideas of attachments/ accessories that can be made for your lathe. Whereas in the past, most were devoted to Myford lathes, nowadays it is the mini lathe that seems to be the most popular. Generally, the designs are quite easy to adapt between the types. Dave The Emerald Isle ------- Clutch noise, Super 7 [myfordlathes] Posted by: "g.k.stubbsx~xxbtinternet.com" g.k.stubbsx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Thu Nov 7, 2013 4:45 am ((PST)) The clutch on my Super 7 has taken to making a very loud, ear splitting screech when I engage the drive. It is the latter type clutch and appears to be in good condition. The problem has happened before, and disappeared after removal and replacment of the bronze coned clutch plate, only to re-occur now. Has anyone had similar problems and come up with a reliable solution? ------- Re: Clutch noise, Super 7 Posted by: "Mike Crossfield" miked.crossfieldx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Thu Nov 7, 2013 7:37 am ((PST)) Have you tried a few drops of oil on the cone (as specified in the Myford oiling schedule)? Mike ------- Re: Clutch noise, Super 7 Posted by: "g.k.stubbsx~xxbtinternet.com" g.k.stubbsx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Fri Nov 8, 2013 2:46 pm ((PST)) I have now, and problem solved. What a plonker I turned out to be -- I only had to read the oiling schedule properly. Many thanks Mike. Graham ------- early ML7 grub screw in V cone pulley assembly [myfordlathes] Posted by: hoonerbobx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:50 pm ((PST)) All this talk about grub screws has prompted me to ask- my ML7, ca.1950, has the normal 2 grub screws which hold the V cone assembly to the spindle + a third grub screw in the hole that on later models has the oil nipple. I didn't realise there was a grub screw in there and have been regularly oiling the thing in the mistaken belief that I was lubricating the spindle. Can I replace the grub screw with an oil nipple? Regards Bob ------- Re: early ML7 grub screw in V cone pulley assembly Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:57 pm ((PST)) I replaced the grub screw with a grease nipple. Unfortunately I didn't take notice of the angle and I can't get the converted grease gun onto the nipple. I have to remove the grease nipple, squirt oil in with an oil can and replace the nipple. I recall saying "oops", or something similar, at the time. Martin ------- Super 7 oil consumption [myfordlathes] Posted by: admx~xxamoyes.fsbusiness.co.uk Date: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:08 am ((PST)) My Super 7 front bearing needed regular topping up with oil. In use, a healthy meniscus is formed outside the small (left hand) end of the bearing. When left running continuously the oil consumption is, I guess, zero. When it is stopped, gravity takes over, the oil runs to the bottom and dribbles down the inside of the headstock to the drip tray. When the lathe is started again, the meniscus appears after a couple of seconds. Hence the continuous use of oil. I wonder if it would be possible to add a grooved ring on the end of the bearing with felt to keep the oil in place. Or even drain it back into the reservoir via the breather hole that is just in front and lower down. Maybe a little improvement to do when the headstock is apart for a belt change, etc. Any thoughts? Incidentally, it's a big bore machine. Do the small bore machines do the same? Andrew M ------- Re: Super 7 oil consumption Posted by: "Phil" pipx~xxhvtesla.com philiptuck Date: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:15 am ((PST)) Andrew, I also get a thin film appear on my standard bore machine, but I wouldn't want to 'recycle' it. All the muck and dust from machining, and in the workshop in general, seems to gather in these places, and that would only get put back into the bearing. OK the tray gets oily, but unless you never use cutting oil, it gets pretty bad at times anyway. Regards Phil T ------- Re: Super 7 oil consumption Posted by: ejandptrx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:45 am ((PST)) Myford have always used a total loss lubrication system. Oil in one end, it seeps out the other. This is the way it is supposed to be. Hence the advice in the manual to replenish the front oil cup twice a day, and oil gun the rear bearing once a day. If the front oil cup doesn't empty, you need a new wick. Phil R ------- Re: Super 7 oil consumption Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:52 am ((PST)) Which brings the question: Is there a source of wicks other than from Myford/RDG? ------- Re: Super 7 oil consumption Posted by: ejandptrx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:51 pm ((PST)) Ken, Not as far as I know. They are a peculiar shape, thick at one end with a thinner longer tail. Like the common representation of a sperm! I wait to be corrected. Phil ------- Re: Super 7 oil consumption Posted by: "Ken Strauss" ken.straussx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:26 pm ((PST)) And RDG want £10.00 + £9.50 for shipping to Canada! Sperm would be cheaper! ------- Re: Super 7 oil consumption Posted by: william.foote1x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:08 pm ((PST)) Found from following the "oil consumption" thread that I need a new lubrication wick. I have ordered a replacement wick and it is on its way. My question now moves to actual replacement. Can the wick be replaced by removal/install through the spindle bearing (H62) or does the headstock need to be removed in order to remove the wick from the bottom? Please and thank you in advance. You gentlemen have always been so helpful. Happy Hollidays to all. ------- Re: Super 7 oil consumption Posted by: william.foote1x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:31 pm ((PST)) OK, because I am impatient, I have removed it through the hole in the spindle bearing. I tried (gently) to get the spring out but gave up as I don't want to bugger it up. Seems easy enough to put the old one back in. If the new one is that easy I'm all set. I did spend time getting all the old oil from the bottom of the bore with pipe cleaners. Please sound off if I have missed anything. bill ------- Re: Super 7 oil consumption Posted by: "Juan C. Pepper" jpepper17x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:07 am ((PST)) Look at page 19 of the Manual, there is a plug to remove and everything comes out. Hope this helps Regards Juan C. Pepper ------- [myfordlathes] Hi folks - first time oiler - question on the use of the Reilang oi Posted by: "David Morrow" oldetymesx~xxnycap.rr.com Date: Thu Jan 2, 2014 12:22 pm ((PST)) Hi folks - short story. An oiler was not included in the recent purchase of my Myford Super 7. After some listserv inquiries I purchased the Reilang oiler instead of a Myford oiler and need some help. As purchased, the Reilang tip does not appear to work on these Myford oiler nipples. Doesn't seem to be designed to push the ball out of the way. Should I have purchased a different tip? Guidance appreciated. Thx much. Dave David M. Morrow, Twenty First Century Certified Clockmaker ------- Re: Hi folks - first time oiler - question on the use of the Reilang Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 2, 2014 1:06 pm ((PST)) All you need is a decent fit on the nipple. Pressure will move the ball. I can't speak to the Reilang oiler, but it may be cheaper replacing the nipples with something compatible than buying a Myford oiler. I am still using my Myford oilers, and I have never been happy with either the quality or the price -- but they do match the Myford nipples. Unlike others on this list -- I will say use an appropriate hydraulic oil for lubrication -- not motor oil (except the gearbox). Robert Mitchell ------- Re: Hi folks - first time oiler - question on the use of the Reilang Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Fri Jan 3, 2014 2:07 am ((PST)) Dave. If you mean the almost flush fitting, flat topped, sprung ball oiler that was pushed into 1/4" holes on early ML7s, then you don't need a special oil gun at all. I use an ordinary pump action oil can on mine, held against the nipples it squirts plenty of oil into the machine, (and a little to the sides if I don't hold the tip in place.) On the other hand if you have the later screw in nipples I cannot comment on what is a suitable oil gun as I have no experience. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Hi folks - first time oiler - question on the use of the Reilang Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Wed Jan 8, 2014 2:52 pm ((PST)) redgrouse75x~xxbtinternet.com wrote: > Hi have a look at this link on the UK model engineering site > http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=48958 I have both the old style Myford oil gun and the later (current) model. My ML7 and S7 both have the oil nipple type of oiler, not the almost flat variety. Both oilers are more or less useless as supplied. Trying to achieve an oil tight seal with a slightly cupped end to the oil pump pressed to a rounded tip on the nipple is something that I just can't imagine ever working properly. The only improvement in the new oiler, apart from being bigger capacity, is that it doesn't leak from the bottom end as well, which is what the old one does. Naturally this has been well chewed over both on this list and its predecessor. Some folk seem to have very weak springs in their oil nipples, and the oiler works alright. One chap described how to remove the spring and weaken it. I have followed a tip posted on one of the two lists (and I cannot remember who it was, but Thank You) which is essentially the same as in the link above from John. I made a short sleave that is a push fit over the end of the oiler nozzle and which holds an O ring. This ring provides a perfect seal. Kevin, NW England, UK ------- Improving RDG drip feed oilers [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com Date: Fri Feb 7, 2014 6:26 am ((PST)) G'day all. A few years ago I bought a couple of RDG drip feed oilers to replace the wick oil cups that my lathe came with. As I've seen noted elsewhere, they are pretty bad out of the box. I had to trim the shaft on one to even get it to close off. My main gripes were the continual trend for the drop to wick down the sides, and the stupidly small windows to allow you to see said trickle of oil. I decided there must be an easy solution, and there is. First I dismantled them entirely and drilled out the 4 sight glass holes with a 10mm drill bit and then de-burred them. That improved the visibility no end. Next I threw away the stupid little plastic sight tube and the top rubber seal. It's the seal and the way it's designed that causes the wicking. I replaced these 2 items with a bit of soft clear PVC tube cut a whisker longer than the existing tube+rubber stack. The bottom of this seals against the existing washer, but the top seals neatly onto the brass drip nozzle. Make sure you remove all the rubber bits before you drill them out. It took me _ages_ to properly get all the swarf out of the bottom rubber washer when I did the first one. I now have two functional, easy to adjust and very clear to view drip feed oilers. Rather than replacing the tube/rubber washer you could punch out the hole in the washer to match the ID of the tube. That'd probably do the job. I just happened to have some suitable (10mm OD) tube hanging above my bench. Brad ------- Re: Improving RDG drip feed oilers Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Feb 8, 2014 6:07 am ((PST)) Congratulations on turning your sow's ears into silk purses. Wicking down the sides of the tubes was the reason I changed my ML7 oilers, which I regret to say were original Myford items. I did not discover the cause of the wicking, despite several attempts to do so, and eventually bought new oilers from Adams. They were expensive at £55 but a damn sight cheaper than new spindle and bearings. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Improving RDG drip feed oilers Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Sat Feb 8, 2014 7:11 am ((PST)) The absolute dog's doo-dahs solution is to toss the drip oilers altogether and fit the one-shot oiling system that Arc Euro sells. Makes a fantastic difference, easy to fit and works a treat. Regards, Tony ------- Sight Level Oilers [myfordlathes] Posted by: davidchadwick1x~xxbigpond.com Date: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:11 pm ((PST)) Hi; I'm sure this has been touched on before, but I am fairly new to the Group. I've been recommissioning a very late model ML7 which I bought here in Australia just recently. One of the sight level oilers is leaking quite badly from where the sight glass meets the base. They both appear to be original and very well made by Adams of Dover. However the glass appears to be "crimped" in position at the base rather than a serviceable screwed fit. Most of the modern replacements appear to be able to be taken apart, but from what I've read are of less than good quality. Is there a way of dismantling the Adams version to correct the leak, or will I get some new ones? In the latter case can anyone recommend which ones I should get (Ebay seems to have about a dozen different suppliers and products). Thanks David ------- Re: Sight Level Oilers Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:06 am ((PST)) I believe many varieties of oiler were fitted to Myfords over the years. Mine were made by Adams and could be completely dismantled by unscrewing the nut over the domed reservoir. When I could not rectify a fault with them I bought new oilers from Adams, who are still in business. If they last only as long as the originals (70 years) I shall be satisfied. Cliff Coggin Kent UK ------- Re: Sight Level Oilers Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:14 am ((PST)) If you last that long, that is :) Regards, Tony ------- Re: Sight Level Oilers Posted by: peterroachx~xxbtinternet.com x3cnc Date: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:06 am ((PST)) Not sure where the "of Dover" comes from? Adams, since 1999 they have been called Adams Lubetech, been in Coventry since 1946. In the recent past brought a Mazak Machining Centre so that can continue to machine quality parts in the UK. They have an Australian agent. Should be happy to sell you a new one. Regards Peter ------- Re: Sight Level Oilers Posted by: "PETER ROACH" peterroachx~xxbtinternet.com x3cnc Date: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:21 am ((PST)) Adams lubetech are in Coventry and have been since 1946. There is an Australian agent if you are down under. Adams will sell direct and have two versions: a cheaper one with a plastic bowl that is crimped and not repairable and a version about £3 more with a glass and is repairable. The glass one is obviously not crimped as the glass would damage. They recommend the glass version. I visited yesterday and they have stock of both. Peter ------- Re: Sight Level Oilers Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com Date: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:39 am ((PST)) On 21/02/14, david chadwick wrote: > Thanks to everyone who responded re this. I will initially try to see > if I can find Adams Australian Agent, or failing that Order direct I can save you the trouble. I found the Adams agent, and got a heart stopping quote of $120 each plus postage. At that point I decided to tart up the awful RDG ones I bought a few years ago. Brad ------- Spindle lubrication on ML7 Tri-Lever [myfordlathes] Posted by: smithers481x~xxbtinternet.com Date: Wed Mar 5, 2014 2:10 pm ((PST)) I have an ML7-R Tri-Lever which, because of my age and occupation does not work very hard. I have just looked at the Adams Lubetech site and am thinking of a drip feed with two outlets on the front of the shelf just above and to the rear of the lathe the outlets connected to the spindle oiling points with some plastic tube. Would the tube be likely to empty itself when the drip-feed is off? If so then I would need to put some sort of control at the spindle lubrication point. As I have such a problem with the originals (I have difficulty getting my fingers in to control the valves) I thought the above might solve the problem. What do other owners think? I will be very grateful for any advice and help. Richard ------- Re: Spindle lubrication on ML7 Tri-Lever Posted by: ejandptrx~xxbtinternet.com philandjorobbo Date: Thu Mar 6, 2014 3:28 am ((PST)) Richard, I think the feed tubes you are proposing would be liable to drain down when the feed is switched off, there won’t be a perfect vacuum to keep the oil in the tube, and with gravity feed you can’t really have valves. (Someone will now prove me wrong.) The principle is fine; have you had a look at the pressure lubrication systems sold by ArcEuroTrade (www.arceurotrade.co.uk), and also, if you have them, Model Engineers’ Workshop magazines nos 161 and 163 for an ML7 lubrication system by Tony Jeffree. You can access these and other information on Arc’s website at http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/One-Shot-Lub rication-System Phil Lancs, UK ------- Re: Spindle lubrication on ML7 Tri-Lever Posted by: richardsmithers37x~xxyahoo.co.uk drawstops Date: Thu Mar 6, 2014 3:03 pm ((PST)) Phil. Many thanks for your interest. I will follow up both your suggestions and let you know the results. I have just had to nip out to the workshop to turn off the lubricators as I was using the lathe a few minutes ago. I have been told it is age!! Sure is as I am 81. Regards Richard ------- Re: Spindle lubrication on ML7 Tri-Lever Posted by: ejandptrx~xxbtinternet.com philandjorobbo Date: Fri Mar 7, 2014 1:24 am ((PST)) Richard, Know the feeling. I have a Mk1 Super 7 with the drip feed headstock oiler and am always forgetting to turn it off! I realised after my last post that if you put a tap at the headstock end of your oil pipe then that would of course keep the oil in the pipe. Thinking of the sort of petrol tap that used to be on motorcycles. There was a push-pull type. If you had the tap, then a “Y” junction in the pipe to feed each bearing then you’d only lose a bit of oil each time. A cheaper method! Phil Lancs, UK ------- Re: Spindle lubrication on ML7 Tri-Lever Posted by: smithers481x~xxbtinternet.com richard748257 Date: Sat Mar 8, 2014 4:14 am ((PST)) Phil. Many thanks for your suggestions. It seems that my idea of a plastic tank on the edge of the shelf above and slightly behind the lathe may well be possible. I had thought of a "T" or "Y" with the valves actually on the headstock. I also thought of a sight-feed along the lines of those used in hospitals for intravenous drips - easy to make out of some plastic tube, etc. I quite like the Arc Euro scheme although it seems a little complicated for an old fool like me but I still get a lot of pleasure seeing MYFORD when I open the workshop door. My main problems are that although I am 81 I play the organ for funerals and weddings, also Sunday mornings in a church and I am the carer for a friend who has progressive M.S. so my time is somewhat limited and I can be called from the workshop at any moment although Steve is very good and tries to avoid that. But I get lots of pleasure in the workshop and will have a go at your suggestions. Many thanks and all the best, Richard ------- Super 7 lubrication front spindle bearing [myfordlathes] Posted by: harry.wilkesx~xxsky.com Date: Sun May 4, 2014 7:41 am ((PDT)) Hi would welcome some advice, I have noticed that the front spindle bearing doesn't take much oil I keeping checking the right angle oil cup but it never requires much in the way of topping up ! I thought about removing and checking the wick but to do this I would nee to unbolt the lathe from the stand, ok if this is what's needed so be it but thought it worth seeking advice firstly. Cheers H ------- Re: Super 7 lubrication front spindle bearing Posted by: "Phil" pipx~xxhvtesla.com philiptuck Date: Sun May 4, 2014 12:09 pm ((PDT)) Hello, My S7 uses very little oil in the front bearing as well (mid 1970's). What I do find though, is that despite upon lifting the spring lid and finding the oil level at the top, if I add one or two more drops, the level immediately rises as though it will overflow, but then fairly quickly drops back to what it was. So I presume the excess is being soaked up straightaway by the wick. You could try that. If you remove the mandrel to change a belt anytime, the wick can be seen in the bearing, and if gently pushed down with a thin screwdriver, should spring back up. Phil ------- Re: Super 7 lubrication front spindle bearing Posted by: ejandptrx~xxbtinternet.com philandjorobbo Date: Sun May 4, 2014 3:54 pm ((PDT)) H, You could first try taking off the oil cup and jamming the spout of a pressure (lever) oil can in the resultant hole and force feeding oil through from the can. With the lathe running oil should come out round the end of the spindle. Obviously with the wick in there it’s not going to pour out, but this should at least ensure that the wick is soaked. Phil Lancs UK ------- Re: Super 7 lubrication front spindle bearing Posted by: harry.wilkesx~xxsky.com Date: Tue May 6, 2014 5:54 pm ((PDT)) Many thanks for all replies will be keeping close eye on it. Thanks H ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: geoffx~xxca.inter.net ammcoman2 Date: Mon May 5, 2014 3:45 pm ((PDT)) A couple of years ago I bought a pair of oilers from the then Myford crew in Nottingham. The oil "dribbled" out the way you describe. My fix was to dismantle them and change the shape of the outlet section from a taper to a bulb on the end. ie. put a neck just above the tip. 'Twerked like a charm. Geoff ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: "david chadwick" davidchadwick1x~xxbigpond.com Date: Tue May 6, 2014 5:10 pm ((PDT)) Thanks for the advice Geoff. There's obviously some capillary attraction at work even though it has to move upwards along the outside of the spout. In fact if I dismantle the oiler and dry off the outside of the drip feed spout it works perfectly for a few minutes before reverting to its old ways. Someone suggested that the existing Oilers can be dismantled and a new seal fitted. Well, these ones are original Adams with clear plastic tops - identical to those still available in their catalogue, but the reservoir is crimp fitted to the metal base and definitely not serviceable. (I cut one in half, so I am certain of this.) David Chadwick +61 2 94985259 +61 417325259 ------- Re: Myford Oilers Posted by: hopperxlx~xxyahoo.com.au Date: Wed Jun 4, 2014 6:15 am ((PDT)) I bought two cheapie oilers off the Fleabay for $20. One drips beautifully, the other globs up and dribbles as you describe. I tried putting an extended "nozzle" on it, to no avail. Will have to try the bulb trick. Thanks for the tip. Meanwhile, I just ordered two more oilers for $13 from the same ebay supplier. Maybe one of them will work ok if I am lucky. Glad I didn't pay the $100 for the OEM Myford pair that looked suspiciously similar to the eBay cheapos. Shipping costs to Oz make returns a real hassle. ------- Oils and power feed [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com Date: Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:41 am ((PDT)) G'day all, I learned a couple of things over the weekend. The first will be blatantly obvious to those of you who have been doing this for more than a week. I'm a bit slow so it has taken me months to discover this. I've been turning things by using the apron handwheel to feed the tool, and I've been fighting with crap finishes. I had put it down to me not knowing how to adequately sharpen a tool, but during my weekend clean-up I got around to setting the changewheels up for a .0009" feed. On using the power feed for the first time I noticed a stunningly beautiful and smooth turned surface. Colour me stupid! Wish I had a power cross feed now. The second is not so obvious. As I had to tear down the saddle to clean out the remnants of ejected glass-paper abrasive I'd managed to spread over the bed, I stripped it totally clean, de-greased and re-oiled everything using ISO32 air-tool oil (close enough). When I put it all back together the force required to move the saddle was less than half what it had been previously. When I re-built the lathe, I meticulously lubricated everything with Mobil-1 5w50 (it was what was in the oil-can). This included the slides and retainers under the saddle. When I stripped it down there was still a massive amount of 5w50 between those bits and the bottom of the shears and that was actually causing a huge drag on the saddle. I was so shocked I stripped it back down, re-degreased and re-applied 5w50. Yep, the drag was back. So after another strip and re-oil I feel like I've turbocharged my lathe. As the old Castrol ad said "Oils ain't Oils". My 66 year old bed wiper did not survive the attempted cleaning and snapped into three pieces. A replacement has been ordered. ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:31 am ((PDT)) Brad I am glad you found an oil that works to your liking. You ought to at least try a "way oil" on the bed. It is not expensive, and is made specifically for the application. Pretty much every oil company should make one. Just like you should try a "cutting oil " for turning. They make a small spill-proof container for heavy cutting oil. I use a small acid brush, and it lives on the lathe bed, except when I steal it for the drill press. ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com Date: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:10 am ((PDT)) G'day Robert, I'm in Western Australia. I might as well be in the middle of the desert when it comes to "specialty" oils. The smallest container I can get a way oil in is a 20L drum. I have proper cutting oil in an aerosol and when I need it the results are great. Proper way lube is on my list, but I need to mortgage a kidney to buy 20L of it so it's something thats harder to slip past the Wife. At least ISO32 air tool oil is available on the shelf at the local car parts place in a 1L bottle. It might be nasty and cheap but it's about the right viscosity and the "leaving it open cup on shelf for a few years" shows it bears age better than motor oil (which is what I had been using). I've seriously thought about having a litre or two freighted from the UK. It would actually be _cheaper_ for the sort of quantities I need. All the other serious machinists I know here just use 68 hydraulic on their machines and none are interested in splitting the cost of a drum of proper way lube. I've just ordered some 100 and I plan to use that on the ways and slides and stick with the 32 or 46 in the head and bushes. Dolphins are so intelligent that within a few weeks they can train Americans to stand at the edge of the pool and throw them fish. ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:52 am ((PDT)) I am surprised the difference in drag was so dramatic Brad, but I can't argue with your results. Cliff Coggin Kent England ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:05 am ((PDT)) I suspect it was film thickness rather than drag. Loosening the gibs might also have worked. Not that I have any experience with 5W50. ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "rmm200x~xxyahoo.com" Date: Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:30 am ((PDT)) I have no idea if Amazon services Australia, but they sell both way oil and cutting oil by the pint and by the quart. A quart of each has lasted me over 40 years now. Maybe they could do a drone air drop. Robert Mitchell ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "David Littlewood" davidx~xxdlittlewood.co.uk Date: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:04 am ((PDT)) Using the apron handwheel for fine turning is indeed, as you have found, pretty awful. The Super 7 has a leadscrew handwheel, and using this, with its much finer feed, is much more acceptable, almost as good as the fine auto-feed. It is not always convenient to use auto feed, especially when you want to turn up to a shoulder to a precise length; the leadscrew handwheel is calibrated in 0.001", and can be read to at least half that. I believe the handwheel can be retro-fitted to the ML7 (which is what I believe you have). Using hand feed for the cross slide is OK, as it has the same fine feed as the leadscrew handwheel. With a little practice you can get a good even movement. My S7 pre-dates pxf, but I have got on fine without it for around 30 years! On my larger lathe I use it because it's there, and it certainly takes the tedium out of a very large facing cut, but that's about all. David Littlewood ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:50 pm ((PDT)) > I'm in Western Australia. I might as well be in the middle of the desert > when it comes to "specialty" oils. Hi Brad. I lived in WA on a three year contract, twenty years ago. My Myford came too. Around Perth there were (then) quite a few small jobbing engineering firms, and I had no difficulty in finding lubricant and cob ends of steel bar. Quite delightful really, the sort of thing that we read about in Model Engineer from the fifties, alas those sort of firms have more or less disappeared from the UK ... none around here anyway. I just explained that I was a hobbyist, and could they sell me a litre of machine oil please. Golden rule ... take a suitable container with you! After six months I moved north to the jobsite in Karratha. Quickly linked up with one of the instructors at the technical college, to mutual advantage. It was all very straightforward then ... I'm not exactly an extrovert either. Be a pity if it's changed so much in the meantime. Kevin ------- NOTE TO FILE: This conversation about lubricants then wandered off topic but I'm sure Myford owners will appreciate the detour. ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:30 pm ((PDT)) > I believe the handwheel can be retro-fitted to the ML7 Yes indeed, it's a Myford extra and just goes on the end of the leadscrew with a screw to hold it in place. Comes with the little bit of metal with the index mark to read it against, which fixes to the bed. There again, if all you wish is the fine feed there's nothing to stop anyone from making a simple handle or wheel to go on the leadscrew, with great saving of cash. Even the 125 divisions isn't all that difficult, if you really need them. Kevin ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:36 am ((PDT)) I have one of those hand wheels on my ML7 leadscrew. Never used the damn thing as it is out of reach, so I fine feed with the top slide screw or I engage power feed. Cliff Coggin Kent England ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "David Littlewood" davidx~xxdlittlewood.co.uk Date: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:28 am ((PDT)) You must have bloody short arms then Cliff (or have a long bed lathe). Using the topslide for accurate parallel turning sounds to me like self-flagellation; it means you need to be dead sure the topslide is set parallel (using the graduated scale is nowhere near accurate enough, so this takes several minutes), and the tidgy little handle with its minute graduations is an absolute pain to use compared with the huge fine grads on the leadscrew handwheel. Oh, and the travel is only adequate for short work. I regard the leadscrew handwheel as one of the most useful features of the S7, and deeply miss the facility on my M300. I know if I was constrained to use an ML7 (which thank the lord I'm not sir!) the leadscrew handwheel would be the first thing I added. Still, everyone to his own. David Littlewood ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "David Everett" deverett2003x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:58 am ((PDT)) Agree entirely, David. (the M300 leadscrew handwheel was discussed 'over there' some time ago.) Dave The Emerald Isle ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "David Littlewood" davidx~xxdlittlewood.co.uk Date: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:12 am ((PDT)) Gosh Dave, that was 4 1/2 years ago, well remembered - I'd forgotten that. Re-reading it, I see I omitted to answer your last question (how would I attach a handwheel to the M300). I never worked out the details, but ISTM that the end of the leadscrew would be reasonably accessible to attach something, it was the RH thread issue that put me off. Also, my M300 has its RHS so close to a wall it was rather cramped. And finally, unlike the S7, the tailstock end was in fact just a bit too far away from the business, to make it all a bit less convenient. I will get round to putting a DRO on it at some point, but the relatively modest use I make of it has made it less of a priority. (Apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread to talk about Harrison lathes!) David Littlewood ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:43 am ((PDT)) Neither short arms nor a long bed David, but I do work with face close to the chuck peering into a deep bore. Having that hand wheel behind my head is therefore of no use to me. The point is that not everyone needs to turn long parallel jobs so generalised recommendations for a lead screw hand wheel will not benefit everyone, hence I presented an opposite view to yours for the sake of balance. The important thing is to assess the sort of work to be done on the lathe before spending money on extra equipment. Just don't get me started on 3 phase drives Cliff Coggin Kent England ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com Date: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:04 pm ((PDT)) > Just don't get me started on 3 phase drives I actually have both the leadscrew handwheel and the 3 phase drive. I bought the handwheel opportunistically on a trip to the UK some years ago. I did try using it once but I felt it "detached" me from the part being machined. I'll give it another go. The VSD I already had, so $50 on a second hand motor and it was all done. The single phase motor that accompanied the lathe was not easily re-wireable for reversing and as I don't have a clutch the VSD was a no-brainer. I just have it wired to a little box mounted to the lathe bench with a pair of buttons for stop/go, a toggle switch for reverse and a pot for speed. The VSD is programmed to run from a dead stop to ~90Hz. I naively fitted the lathe so close to a wall that the use of a spindle handle is all but impossible, so having the motor able to be inched along from a stop with the speed pot means threading to a shoulder is easy, and a rapid reverse without disengaging the half nuts is just as easy. Neither task is particularly fun with a single speed motor and no clutch, let alone a uni-directional motor. Even changing the chuck is a simple matter of chucking up a 10MM allen key and tapping it against the bed in reverse. Don't even need to use back gear. Just get it to within an inch of the bed casting and give the speed knob a quick flick in reverse. Now I just need to get the lubrication sorted out. ------- Re: Oils and power feed Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com Date: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:06 pm ((PDT)) As a child of the metric system, sometimes I find myself a bit lost when dealing with the old ways. Here is a chart I whipped up that I print at A3 and hang above the lathe. http://www.fnarfbargle.com/private/140715-Lathe/Lathe_001.pdf Spindle speeds are calculated from the 50Hz speed in the Myford manual (I've not put a tach on it yet but it's close enough). The threading angles on the right have not been verified or tested but look "about right". I recently replaced my damaged dial vernier with a digital unit that does both Imperial decimal and Imperial fractions. Handy that! ------- Re: Super 7 oil consumption [myfordlathes] Posted by: admx~xxamoyes.fsbusiness.co.uk moyes_a Date: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:44 am ((PDT)) Here is an update for anyone interested in the problem of high oil consumption of the front headstock bearing of my big-bore Myford. It turned out that the front bearing was poorly fitted as received. It was a Myford demonstration lathe and although it had never turned metal, the headstock had been run extensively over its 10 year life. From the markings, I would say it had been used to demonstrate adjusting the headstock bearings. The front bearing had undergone some trauma and seized at some time. There was a score in the bush and some bronze had picked up on the spindle. Fortunately the hardened spindle was still in perfect condition. When tested with engineers’ blue only about 25% was in contact with the spindle. I set about re-scraping the bush and at the same time correcting small errors in alignment. The spindle was 0.5 thou away from the operator at the right hand end over 4 inches, which is the wrong direction to the permitted tolerance. Also the vertical error was a little high at 1 thou over 4 inches albeit in the right direction. It’s surprising how much scraping is needed to correct 0.5 thou in 4 inches! Three long evenings to be exact. I enjoy scraping and find it gratifying to work to tight tolerances armed only with a hand scraper and engineers’ blue. But I found this task tricky as the top of the bearing was out of sight. Scraping upside down and ‘backwards’ in a mirror is definitely a skill that had to be acquired by practice. Anyway the job is now done and the spindle is in good alignment. I replaced the two ball races while I was at it as they were noisy and must have had some rough treatment. The NSK 7007A bearings were unobtainable from the main UK suppliers. I obtained replacements on a business trip to Hong Kong. The first bearing shop I tried on the famous Canton Road had them. Genuine NSK bearings, upgraded from steel to brass cages, cost a very reasonable £9 each. The lathe now runs very sweetly and quietly. To return to the original point, the previously large meniscus at the small end of the bearing is now barely visible. Consequently there is negligible if any loss of oil when the spindle is stopped. After several hours of use, the oil level has not moved. Clearly, a large bearing clearance was causing a lot of oil (relatively speaking of course) to be drawn into the gap which all promptly ran out when the spindle was stopped. All is well, I’m now a happy bunny and can get down to using the lathe as intended. ------- Re: buying ML10 Instalation of drip tray [myfordlathes] Posted by: cholfx~xxoperamail.com holford_chris Date: Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:06 pm ((PDT)) Thanks for the advice. I finally found a nice Speed 10 not too far away to collect. I'm now preparing the bench for it. I'm putting it on a drip tray as I will be using a coolant pump at some stage. Now to my question; -so that coolant will drain out of the drip tray the drip tray needs to slope slightly downwards towards the drain hole -but, I think the lathe bed should be level. How can these two requirements be met? ------- Re: buying ML10 Instalation of drip tray Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:05 am ((PDT)) The lathe bed does not need to be level, in fact you can tilt it to any angle you like, however it does need to be flat which is a different matter entirely. Cliff Coggin Kent England ------- Re: buying ML10 Instalation of drip tray Posted by: red-rosex~xxgreenview.fslife.co.uk Date: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:10 am ((PDT)) Hi Chris, Please do not confuse level for horizontal. The level required with all lathes (and other machine tools as well) with a foot at each end is that the bed is not twisted by having the feet unevenly mounted laterally. In this case, mounted flat might be a better description. There is no requirement for lathes to be mounted perfectly horizontal to the planet otherwise how would lathes installed in ships function? Gravity does not have that much bearing on the function of machine tools. What can happen is that the base plate is not perfectly flat so that, when the lathe is set upon it, the feet are sitting at different heights from side to side introducing a twist to the bed, or even in an extreme case with long feet, a bow is introduced in the bed (imagine mounting a lathe on the side of a 45 gallon drum). Most small lathes with end feet (Myford, Zyto etc) have been designed to also be mounted on wooden benches which will distort quite easily. What you have to do is make sure that the feet are all set level to each other. Raising blocks with adjusters are good for this. I am tall so need the stand raised as well as raising blocks in order to work comfortably so it was easy for me to play with adjustment. You just need to decide how much fall you need to be able to drain your tray and work with that. Look in the files section where there are instructions for "levelling" a lathe. I hope that this helps dispel the horizontal myth. Andy ------- Re: buying ML10 Instalation of drip tray Posted by: "MikeD" durnfjmx~xxgmail.com durnfjm Date: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:36 am ((PDT)) Make your bench and drip tray with the slope you need for drainage, then install your lathe on "raising blocks" to make it level. Raising blocks fit under the feet of the tool, and are either adjustable or can simply be a couple of blocks of steel with some shimstock to effect the level. Another advantage of installing the lathe on blocks is to give you more clearance for removing swarf from under the bed. Actually, although it is often convenient, there is no absolute need to have the bed level as long as it is not twisted. MikeD ------- Re: buying ML10 Instalation of drip tray Posted by: "S or J" jstudiox~xxtbaytel.net stevetbon1 Date: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:48 am ((PDT)) Hi Chris Obviously the tray must slope gently toward the hole to capture the larger quantity of coolant in a pumped system, unless you have another way of capturing it or pumping it out. The lathe bed has to be straight, not twisted, but within reason its slope is irrelevant. For convenience in using very sensitive machinist precision levels to make sure the bed is not twisted, folks normally mount the lathe so the bed is nearly horizontal. But it doesn't have to be horizontal. You have many examples of metal lathes happily mounted on ships where the bed is virtually never horizontal. I recall someone mounted a smaller lathe sloped down about 25 degrees towards the front as the owner found that more comfortable to see what he was doing. Your opportunity to be innovative and resilient. regards Steve in Thunder Bay, Ontario ------- Re: buying ML10 Instalation of drip tray Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Mon Sep 1, 2014 4:53 am ((PDT)) Plenty of sound advice already on the question of "leveling". Clearly you need a little fall on the tray for drainage towards the outlet hole. On the subject of a coolant pump .... probably most of us imagine that we'll need one, when we first start out. In fact, for hobby use, many of us (I include myself) get on perfectly well without one, using HSS tools. On the occasions when lubricant (rather than coolant) is needed I apply it by brush, in the time honoured manner. I understand that this is unsuitable for carbide tipped tools, which need either flood application or none at all. Kevin ------- Myford ML 10 Lathe [myfordlathes] Posted by: pmdo1x~xxyahoo.co.uk pmdo1 Date: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:50 am ((PDT)) Hi all, I have just purchased my first lathe for the shed, a myford ML 10 and am wondering if any of you lads can keep me right on the lubrication side of things. From what I understand on the manual I found on your group files-the head bearings take grease as specified but I'm not too sure about the tail stock and the pulley, is it oil that goes into those points?. One other point is I cannot turn the lead screw handle at the end of the lathe even with the leadscrew disengaged but can hear the gears clunking, is this normal? Thanks for your help. peter ------- Re: Myford ML 10 Lathe Posted by: "Christopher Angiolini" chris.angiolinix~xxgooglemail.com Date: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:09 am ((PDT)) Hi Peter. I can't help with the lubrication side of things but the leadscrew; if you have change gears fitted to the lathe then turning the leadscrew will drive them even if headstock spindle is disengaged. Try taking off the gear from the headstock end of the leadscrew and then see how the leadscrew handle feels. Chris ------- Re: Myford ML 10 Lathe Posted by: "Don Edwards" wandleside3x~xxbtinternet.com Date: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:05 am ((PDT)) Hi Peter, Bear in mind that there were two different headstocks for the ML10 series. Initially a hardened steel mandrel running in the iron casting of the headstock, as in some South Bend lathes that gave great service in munition factories during the war, running three shifts/day and lubricated by oil (a straight hydraulic oil of S.A.E. 30). (Look on the internet for oil supplier's and buy a 5L can for very much less than the cost of such as Esso Nuto32.) The later versions were fitted with roller bearings lubricated with grease (the sort of grease you lubricate car wheel bearings with). The existence, or otherwise, of grease nipples on the headstock, adjacent to the bearing housings will indicate which type you have. (I don't know the serial numbers when the design changed.) The other lub. points are for oil, sae 30. including the back-gear/pulley assembly and the countershaft. The leadscrew may be disengaged from the saddle, but it is still connected to any gear-train assembled on the banjo casting and is thus in mesh with the mandrel. Most amateur lathes used to be fitted with a 'Tumbler reverse' assembly, consisting of three gears on a pivoted bracket fitted with a locating detent. This not only enabled the leadscrew to be driven in either direction, e..g cutting left-hand threads, but incorporating a neutral position between. To solve the inconvenience of the permanent connection, Myford's (The original Myford company) introduced a leadscrew-clutch as an extra, enabling the leadscrew to be disengaged from the gear train when hand traverse of the saddle was required. If you look along the left hand of your leadscrew you may see a machined groove therein, this indicated the place where an owner, retro-fitting a clutch assembly needed to part-off the leadscrew when installing the unit. Well worth having if you can still obtain one. An easy alternative if necessary is to just remove one wheel from the gear-train when manual feed is temporarily required. Trust this is of interest -- with the usual caveats about grandmothers and eggs and welcome to the game. Don Edwards ------- Re: Myford ML 10 Lathe Posted by: "Peter Degan" pmdo1x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:25 pm ((PDT)) Hi Don, thanks for all that information, it's exactly what I was looking for. I also checked the serial number on the myford site and according to that I have the roller bearings fitted to my lathe, I will also check out a lead screw clutch, thanks for your help. Peter ------- Re: Myford ML 10 Lathe Posted by: "Peter Degan" pmdo1x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:25 pm ((PDT)) Hi Chris, thanks for replying to my question. I got the oil and grease points sorted and think I might try and get hold of a lead screw clutch. Thanks Peter ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following thread has two topics, but was put into this file because the primary discussion is about lubrication (and sometimes the problems caused by lack of same). ------- Chatter & oilpots [myfordlathes] Posted by: "norrissheldonx~xxymail.com" Date: Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:05 am ((PST)) I'm going off topic here, but I have two questions I would like to post to the group. Firstly, I am considering, where possible, exchanging the ball bearing type oilers on my ML7, for 1/4" dia pots with spring loaded lids. Anyone else done this and if so how did it work? Secondly, tool chatter. I am plagued with this. I've changed the headstock for a complete second hand one, which I am assured is okay, and with a piece of 38mm bar in the chuck with 55mm protruding, anything more than a 0.020" cut results in chatter. A polishing cut is impossible. Not tried facing off yet. My toolpost is a Dixon type, Myford sized, and my other is a solid four tool holder. All the slides are free but not loose. I changed headstock because the other one had a slight amount of play at the chuck end, this one has none. Be grateful for any sensible suggestions as to what is causing the chatter. Sent as if by Magic ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:17 am ((PST)) Magic, (you didn't give a name so Magic will have to do.) I am curious why you want to change the oilers on your ML7. Mine are still satisfactory after 68 years of operation. As for chatter, that is generally caused by a lack of rigidity in the tool and its mounting, allied with too great a speed and too deep a cut. For more specific advice you need to mention what metal you are working with, how fast it is turning, the rate of feed, the size of the tool and how much overhang it has. A 0.020" cut in brass with a stout tool is well within the capabilities of the lathe: a similar cut in steel with a flimsy tool is not. Cliff Coggin Kent England ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Alan Moore" a.j.moorex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:21 am ((PST)) A couple of comments on your tool chatter problem:- 1. Twenty thou is a reasonable cut depth to take on a small, not very rigid, lathe like an ML7. Unless you are pressed by production deadlines I wouldn't worry too much about taking heavy cuts. For most of us the thinking and measuring times are far longer than the actual cutting time. 2. It is amazing the difference you get from having a REALLY sharp tool set accurately on the centreline. Time spent learning how to grind tools to the optimum profile is time well spent. And having got the profile correct on the bench grinder it is important to get the correct tip radius with a hand stone. Sorry if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs. Regards, Alan ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "norrissheldonx~xxymail.com" Date: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:32 pm ((PST)) And now the pulley appears to have siezed onto the shaft, at least, it is locked and will not freely rotate, even though the locking dog is still out of mesh. Cliff Coggin, my name is Norris. As in Norrissheldonx~xxgmail.com which is at the top of my message. In my message I did explain what I was cutting, but never mind. I want to change the oilers because I don't particularly like these ball bearing ones. ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com rmm200 Date: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:37 pm ((PST)) OK - now you have me curious. What kind of material are you cutting? "38 mm bar" really tells us nothing,and every material has its own cutting characteristics. Robert Mitchell ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "norrissheldonx~xxymail.com" Date: Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:02 pm ((PST)) Robert, good morning. At that time I was cutting a piece of EN1A on the middle pulley speed. I was using a sharp tool at the time with as little overhang as seemed fit for a straight bar. Now, I am machining a backplate in back gear and the pulley is locked to the shaft. There seem to be no lubrication points that I've missed, so I am at a loss. Only had the myford for a few months, before thus I had a Zyto, which I wish I'd kept. ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Richard Wilson" richardpwilson61x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:20 am ((PST)) I can't offer any help regarding the siezed pulley, because I'm not familiar with the finer points of the ML7. Regarding the chatter issue, a good test is to try again but using tailstock support for the work. If the problem goes away, then it's either the bearings, or you are simply asking too much of the machine. If it doesn't go away, then it's tool, or speed or slides or a combination of these things. Do the test using a solid tailstock centre, because it's not unknown for revolving centres to have slack in them, don't ask how I know!. Richard Wilson ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "norrissheldonx~xxymail.com" Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:41 am ((PST)) Thank you for that Richard. As it happens I have done some work between centres and I was able to take of 0.040" cuts with no trouble, so it looks like I will be having a crash course on scraping bearings. ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Bob Hamilton" bobx~xxhamilton-bob.freeserve.co.uk ukdiverbob Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:11 am ((PST)) [snip] Regarding the chatter, if you have a rear mounted tool post, try using that, it will keep the shaft held down. Also just put a foot of bar in the chuck with a clock on it and try lifting the bar. The reading on the clock will give you best idea of the condition of bearings and shaft. In the “Olden Days” we used to put very heavy oil in the headstock bearings lubricators as the bearings were well worn. These were machines that were probably 50 years old back then and would make a Myford look very modern. Bob ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com rmm200 Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:36 am ((PST)) EN1A is a mild steel. It should cut with a good surface finish. Check your surface speed - you should be running 30-38 meters per minute. There is also EN31A leaded; that bit of lead makes a world of difference. And of course - don't cut steel dry. Heavy cutting fluid, applied with a brush, works wonders. Robert Mitchell ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "David Everett" deverett2003x~xxyahoo.co.uk deverett2003 Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:50 am ((PST)) Are you sure you have lubricated the back gear? Not sure about the ML7, but the S7 has an oil nipple on the right hand side of the headstock casting for lubricating the back gear. On second thoughts, is there an oil nipple on the side of the bull gear? Dave The Emerald Isle ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "norrissheldonx~xxymail.com" Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:54 am ((PST)) Dave, thanks for the reply, there are no visible lubrication points that I can see, either inside the pulley itself or anywhere else I can see. The pulley is now solid on the shaft, so I think it is definitely seized. ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com yeldarb_llebpmac Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:13 am ((PST)) G'day Norris, If there is no visible lubrication point then there will be a grub screw in the middle sheave of the pulley. You need to pull the screw out, poke in oil and put the screw back. It does sound as though it might be too late however. ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "norrissheldonx~xxymail.com" Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:20 am ((PST)) Brad, there is a grub screw in the middle of the pulley, I slackened it off to see if that would release the pulley, are you serious that that is the oil point, hidden behind a grub screw? ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Mike Crossfield" miked.crossfieldx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:43 am ((PST)) Norris: There is an oil nipple in the outside face of the largest diameter pulley for lubrication of the internal bush. If you go to the Myford web site and look under ML7 spares you will find an exploded diagram which shows the oil nipple (item 15). If you look at the photograph of the pulley assembly (which costs 70s odd +vat etc), you can just make out the oil nipple screwed into the side of the pulley. It sounds as though your machine has run in backgear with insufficient lubrication, and the bush has picked up on the spindle. This is not uncommon. If you are very lucky you my be able to free it by pumping in plenty of oil and working the pulley back and forth. Most likely you will need to disassemble (which will need judicious use of force), clean the spindle up, and hopefully find that the bush is not beyond further use. HTH Mike ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Brad Campbell" lists2009x~xxfnarfbargle.com yeldarb_llebpmac Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:57 am ((PST)) G'day Mike & Norris, Norris : Yes, I'm entirely serious. Mike : There is only an oil nipple if your lathe is new enough. Those of us with older machines have to put the oil in through the grub screw hole in the middle of the pulley. The grub screw does not lock anything, it is there entirely to plug the oil hole. ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: enwodex~xxyahoo.co.uk enwode Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:52 am ((PST)) Hi there, Norris, As other posters have written, the position of the backgear lubrication point depends upon the age of your machine, a grub- screw in the groove of the pulley in older machines and an oil nipple pointing towards the bull-wheel in later models. Regarding the suggestion to oil copiously and try, over several days, to get it to move, I would endorse that as Plan A. If it works, fine, if it doesn't succeed, you haven't lost anything. If Plan A fails, then the situation is still recoverable (don't ask me how I know!), proceed to Plan B! You'll need to remove the headstock bearing caps and address the mandrel + pulley on the bench. The major pitfall at that stage is mixing up the bearing cap shims -- you MUST avoid that, keeping each shim-pack identified so you can put them back in the correct places during re-assembly. After that, some folks have trouble with the gear on the rear end of the mandrel and some have a job to remove the spacer. I'd earnestly counsel that your worst enemy here is haste! Do take your time and each time you encounter difficulty come back here and seek advice before reaching for the blow-torch, the big hammer or your eBay password! It may be that your efforts to free the pulley displace the alloy part wrt the inner bronze bush -- that will close off the lubrication path. When you reassemble, check their relative angular alignment. Unless you do something really disastrous along the way, your headstock should go back together with its mandrel bearings exactly as they were before, so don't let anyone panic you about scraping etc. I thought there was a PDF of the ML7 owner's manual in the Files section here? When this happened to me (I blame the original Myford oil gun!!) I felt so ashamed of myself, neglecting my ML7! In those days, the Beeston Myford used to come to the Guildford show. I sidled up to Malcolm on their stand when there weren't too many folks within earshot and confessed my misdemeanour. Malcolm was quite blasé about it and reassured me that 'lots of people do that, just take it to bits and fix it!'. So I did. Best regards, Pete W. (aka 'Enwode') ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "norrissheldonx~xxymail.com" Date: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:03 am ((PST)) Pete W. (aka Enwode) -- thank you so much for a comprehensive and helpful reply. I'm in the fortunate position of having two complete headstock assemblies, so I've taken off the offending one and filled the hole in the pulley with oil and screwed the screw in, hoping that the pressure will force the oil into a place it will help. I will do that at odd intervals over the next day or so, and in the meantime make up a clamp to go around the half inch wide plain aluminium band that forms part of the smallest pulley and then see how it goes. [snip] Thanks again Pete. ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:10 am ((PST)) > Unless you do something really disastrous along the way, your headstock > should go back together with its mandrel bearings exactly as they were > before, so don't let anyone panic you about scraping etc. Wise words indeed. It should hardly ever/never be be ncessary to scrape the bearings. Only in the most extreme cases. The procedure requires some skill and some test equipment, and isn't to be undertaken lightly! OTOH, Myford made other provision for adjusting the fit of the bearings in a manner which they regarded as being a routine maintenance item. Needed maybe once/never in the lifetime of a hobby machine, but from time to time in a production environment. Under each of the bearing caps is a pack of thin shims. These can be carefully removed one at a time with the aid of a blade, until the looseness of the mandrel fit is taken up. The replaced bearing caps should be done up tight .... the adjustment is affected by removing the shims, not leaving the caps loose! The procedure is, of course, reversible, unlike scraping. The manual is, as you say, available in the Files, but I see that the original poster cannot go there by phone, so I hope that the above helps. Look after the ML7 bearings, don't skimp on the oil. New spare bearings are more or less unavailable, and the only hope of replacement is finding some used ones. Kevin, England ------- Re: Chatter & oilpots Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:03 pm ((PST)) > Is there anything in the files about scraping bearings? Yes, there is. The ML7 Manual describes how to adjust the bearings by removing shims and then mentions that scraping will be necessary. But it doesn't describe how to go about it. I would venture to suggest that if you only removed one shim (0.002 inch) then scraping wouldn't be necessary. The bearing bore wouldn't be circular, that's true, but sometimes a very similar shape is deliberately adopted in plain bearings to aid the hydrodynamic lubrication. BUT, only my current thought, and I'd welcome proper informed opinion from one of the more knowledgeable folk, not that I anticipate stripping shims any time soon. Kevin, England ------- Oil guns [myfordlathes] Posted by: mike.brettx~xxmikebrett.plus.com mike_the_radio Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:25 am ((PST)) Hi all. On the subject of oiling, when I refurbished my S7 I had to remove all the oil nipples to clean them. Some were clogged with dirt and after removing this I attached my oil can to make sure the oil was indeed passing through the nipple. The thing is I only have a cheap oil can, think it came from Machine Mart, and when oiling my lathe on some of the bearings I can see the oil actually seeping out onto the shaft, but on others I am not sure if the oil is getting through. I notice Myford sells an oiler for their lathes but it is on the pricey side. Is one of these essential for these machines, as I want to look after it well? I just wondered what everyone else was using. Mike ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: harry.wilkesx~xxsky.com Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:48 am ((PST)) Mike, I use a Myford oil gun; got it off ebay and it works and fits perfectly. I did have another type which worked OK except for the oil nipple in the pulleys -- the end was too thick to fit in the gap; suppose I could have machined it but was not that keen on the oil gun anyway. H ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: "David Everett" deverett2003x~xxyahoo.co.uk deverett2003 Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:22 am ((PST)) I've got two Myford oil guns - the original, well 70's pattern, and the later 'improved' version. Both fit the nipples OK, but they both leak down the stem from the cylinder. If I stand them on end, they leak past the cylinder seal. The only leak-proof oil guns make that I know of is Wanner and you will need deep pockets for those. Just out of interest, I load one gun with way oil - Vectra 2 - for oiling the nipples on the cross slide and the other with the normal T32 for the remaining nipples/oil pots. Dave The Emerald Isle ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgmail.com haydut1200 Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:00 am ((PST)) I appreciate that, to some, altering their Myford from original is sacrilege, but I changed all the nipples on my ML7 to (1/8?) grease nipples and converted a cartridge grease gun to take oil. I fitted an angled nipple to the back of the saddle to make it easy to get to. Easy oiling with no mess -- unless you are over-enthusiastic with the grease gun handle. Martin ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: paultummers1951x~xxyahoo.com paultummers1951 Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:07 am ((PST)) I also have an original Myford oil gun, works well, only problem I have is oiling the nipple that is behind the hand-wheel of the support. I would love to have another one to lubricate the nipples on the support with special, somewhat thicker oil as I use for the headstock bearings. ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: mike.brettx~xxmikebrett.plus.com mike_the_radio Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:20 am ((PST)) Thanks for all the replies guys. Martin,I found your idea of using a converted grease gun intriguing, I did wonder if it was possible to use one of these as a pressure oil can as there are lots on the market at all prices. Is it easy to convert one of these to oil use? At present I am using 5/30W synthetic engine oil. Mike ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: "Jan Roos" j.roos12x~xxchello.nl novice1943nl Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:35 am ((PST)) Hi all, Some years ago I bought a pumping oil can with a flexible hose on it with at the end a brass nipple. I cut off the nipple and I can oil every place on the lathe just pressing the hose on the oil nipple. I once bought a Myford oiler (new design) but with this thing most of the oil is spilt. Jan ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: "Barry Forrest" 2barryforrestx~xxtiscali.co.uk tobarryforrest Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:43 am ((PST)) The answer to the oil-gun “problem” is to make your own. A bit of aluminium bar, a spring and neoprene or similar o-ring is all you need, together with a cheap pump action oil can (mine cost about £3-50 at Wickes) plus a little time on the lathe. The “design”, if you could call it that, was published in Model Engineers Workshop magazine in July 2011. I’m still using my 2011 “prototype” [I never did get round to making a fancy knurled barrel]. It works well as it pushes open the ball bearing in the nipple, hence little “back- pressure”, the thin barrel also allows easy access to those nipples in difficult to reach places (e.g. the one in the cone pulley). If needed you can easily adapt the design to suit your own requirements. If you want to have a look but cannot find a copy of MEW send me an email with your own email address. Regards Barry ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgmail.com haydut1200 Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:38 am ((PST)) Mike, the grease gun is easy to convert. In my case, I simply removed the rod and plunger and welded over the holes in the end cap. Here's a link to how to do it using the original parts. http://www.omgtr.ca/technical/highpressureoiler/highpressureoiler.htm Martin ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: "Barry Forrest" 2barryforrestx~xxtiscali.co.uk tobarryforrest Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:47 am ((PST)) Thanks to Dave from the Emerald Isle for suggesting I add the info to the Files section. This is now done. I hope I am not breaching MEW copyright for posting a couple of page images that covered my design. Barry ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: "davidchadwick1" davidchadwick1x~xxbigpond.com chadwickdavid46 Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:42 pm ((PST)) I have found the best by far is the old Tecalemit "Grease gun" as supplied in the tool kit of just about every British car in the 1950's and 60's. There are usually plenty on Ebay, or car swap meets etc. They actually look a bit like the "Myford" oil gun and as Tecalemit was a major supplier in those days they may even have made the Myford Guns. The quality is superb (provided you get one in good condition - which most seem to be) and you can generate quite a bit of pressure if needed as the nose seals very well with no leaks from either nose or filler cap. Interestingly, my recollection is that they were far from satisfactory for their intended purpose of injecting automotive grease, but as many early cars used oil in lieu of grease for lubrication, they may well have been an "older" design, carried forward. They were always part of the tool kit for Jaguars, Rolls Royce, Austin Healey etc and as such are sought by collectors of these vehicles. However, they were also used by Austin, Morris, Singer etc and other less illustrious marques, so finding one should be easy - around the 10 - 20 pounds mark. David Chadwick ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: "Richard Wilson" richardpwilson61x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:24 pm ((PST)) Yes I can second that. I used one of those old 'push' grease guns, filled with oil, for many years on a 1940s (not Myford) lathe, and it worked well with virtually no leakage. Richard ------- Re: Oil guns Posted by: "Haydut1200" haydut1200x~xxgmail.com haydut1200 Date: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:05 am ((PST)) The main reason I converted a cartridge grease gun was because the Tecalemit gun I had was useless. I did try to get it working, but I lost patience with it and it ended up in the bin. It also didn't help that the previous owner had used the Tecalemit to grease everything on the lathe. Martin ------- Re: What is wrong with my headstock? [myfordlathes] Posted by: hoonerbobx~xxyahoo.com hoonerbob Date: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:14 pm ((PST)) For those of us who have problems buying Esso Nuto 32 in small quantities can I recommend Machine Mart's 32 weight hydraulic oil and Halford's 32 weight hydraulic oil (which is marketed as hydraulic jack oil). Rob ------- NOTE TO FILE: Certainly the following conversation is about a recurring topic, and many answers have already been recorded here, but I enjoy reading such discussions, looking for the occasional new info or idea. ------- Best Oil for Super 7 [myfordlathes] Posted by: gwe1x~xxbigpond.com.au sparrowmudgee Date: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:09 pm ((PST)) What is the best oil to use for the Super 7 as I have just purchased one and want to lubricate all required points. There is also oil cups under the main spindle belt cover and on the quick change gearbox. Can these be changed to oil nipples??? Many thanks Garry ------- Re: Best Oil for Super 7 Posted by: "David Everett" deverett2003x~xxyahoo.co.uk deverett2003 Date: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:38 am ((PST)) Congrats on your new purchase. I hope you have years of enjoyment with it. For all the oil points on your lathe, Myford recommend 32 grade hydraulic oil. They suggest Esso Nuto H32 but the Shell equivalent is Tellus T32. Other oil companies will also have an equivalent - whatever you can get. One consideration is to use a dedicated way oil on the sliding surfaces: apron, top slide and cross slide. A well known oil for these is Shell Vactra 2. Again other oil companies will have an equivalent. I have two oil guns: one with T32 and the other with Vactra for the respective jobs and oil nipples. Be prepared for the Myford oil gun to leak! The oil cups on the countershaft are perfectly adequate and provide an oil reservoir which will be used up in time. Check the levels in all oil cups on a daily basis and lube round the nipples before use. Why change a perfectly good system that Myford provided? On my gearbox, there are oil nipples on the top of the box. If you have a look in the Files section, you should be able to find a copy of the owners' manual. Dave The Emerald Isle ------- Re: Best Oil for Super 7 Posted by: ejandptrx~xxbtinternet.com philandjorobbo Date: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:24 am ((PST)) Garry, Re the Oil cups on the countershaft, you should leave these as they are, and top up as required, the recommended lubricant is Esso Nuto H32, but any hydraulic oil grade 32 will do. The reason is the countershaft bushes are made of Oilite, a type of sintered bronze (whose proper name I forget), and this is a porous material. The oil cups provide a constant supply of oil which gradually soaks into the bush and maintains an invisible oil film. Many owners do not understand this, and drill holes through the bush and fit nipples, this just requires more frequent use of an oil gun. All the gearboxes I have seen do have oil nipples on the top plate, not oil cups. These serve to lubricate the shaft on which the dog clutches slide. I use a lubricant the same as that I use in the gearbox body, which is SAE 30 oil. The gearbox manual merely mentions an occasional use of the oil gun on these nipples. A copy of the gearbox manual can be found in the Files section. Phil ------- Re: Best Oil for Super 7 Posted by: harry.wilkesx~xxsky.com harry.wilkesx~xxsky.com Date: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:53 am ((PST)) Hi I use this company for both the VG32 and VG68 they sell them in reasonable quantities: http://www.lathespares.co.uk/ I use the 'Myford' type oil gun (have tried other but not for me) with a piece of kitchen towel over the nipple to help form a seal, the oil cup for the spindle front bearing via the wick gives me concern as it never seems to use any oil so I squirt some in with the oil gun. I have considered changing the wick but I don't think it's accessible when the lathe is assembled (please correct me if I'm wrong) enjoy your lathe H ------- Super 7 Headstock Front Bearing Lubrication [myfordlathes] Posted by: ken.wheeler91x~xxyahoo.com.au ken.wheeler91 Date: Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:25 am ((PDT)) Hello. I am trying to replace the lubricating wick, which provides oil to the headstock front bearing. I have looked at page 16 of the maintenance manual but do not understand it, as I cannot find the hole that provides access to the wick, can someone please tell me precisely where this hole is? Many thanks, Ken ------- Re: Super 7 Headstock Front Bearing Lubrication Posted by: "Andrew Moyes" admx~xxamoyes.fsbusiness.co.uk moyes_a Date: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:42 am ((PDT)) Hello Ken. The only way is to remove the spindle first. The spring under the wick will push the wick out then grab hold of it with tweezers and pull. To put it back, remove the small hex socket grub screw in the right hand end of the headstock, push the wick well down against the spring and push a long needle in the hole and through the wick to hold it in place while you reinsert the spindle. Andrew Moyes ------- Re: Super 7 Headstock Front Bearing Lubrication Posted by: "ken wheeler" ken.wheeler1x~xxgmail.com kenwheeler91 Date: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:43 am ((PDT)) Hello Andrew Many thanks for your prompt reply, much appreciated, as I am a newbie at working on Myfords. I was told that it was possible to replace the wick without removing the spindle - by extracting the wick through the lower of the two holes that are provided in the headstock for locating the backgear (there is a slotted screw head at the bottom of this lower hole). I have attempted to undo this screw with a screwdriver but it is very stiff, which is surprising as this screw (if it does provide access to the wick) is presumably regularly immersed in oil from the wick and should not have needed to be tightened substantially in the first place. If I do have to remove the spindle, is it very difficult for an inexperienced user to replace it accurately? Regards, Ken ------- Re: Super 7 Headstock Front Bearing Lubrication Posted by: "Andrew Moyes" admx~xxamoyes.fsbusiness.co.uk moyes_a Date: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:18 am ((PDT)) No, it's not possible to replace the wick without removing the spindle. The two holes you refer to -- I assume those are the holes the sprung backgear lever locates into when the backgear is engaged or disengaged. If so, the slotted head screw at the bottom of one of the holes is actually for axially locating the backgear eccentric that turns when you move the handle. The end of the screw locates in a groove in the eccentric. It must be slightly loose in the groove to allow the eccentric to turn. The screw itself is locked in that position by another grub screw at right angles to it, located in the right hand end of the headstock. That will be why you can't turn it. It's nothing to do with the wick so there is no need to disturb it. The procedure for removing the spindle is covered in the Myford manual and there will be a copy in the files section of this site. The only tricky bit is getting the adjustment of the rear bearings (ball bearings) and front plain bearing right when you put it all back together. Read the instructions thoroughly in conjunction with the section through the headstock and it should make sense. Andrew Moyes ------- Re: Super 7 Headstock Front Bearing Lubrication Posted by: edgarbritsx~xxhotmail.com edgarbrits Date: Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:14 am ((PDT)) When you do remove the spindle be very careful not to bruise the cone bearing with the key on the shaft. Would be a good idea to inspect the 2 angular contact bearings and replace if needed. ------- Re: Super 7 Headstock Front Bearing Lubrication Posted by: "ken wheeler" ken.wheeler1x~xxgmail.com kenwheeler91 Date: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:38 am ((PDT)) Hello Andrew/Edgar Many thanks for all your help, its good to know that this level of knowledge is available to us less experienced Myford users. Kind regards, Ken ------- Oiling those nipples [myfordlathes] Posted by: mfslaterx~xxgmail.com mfredslater47 Date: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:08 am ((PST)) Hi Listmates Regarding oilers. I have removed all the zerks (oil/grease nipples with ball sealing) on my two Super 7s and replaced them with simple brass pass-through, screw-in fittings with screw-on caps (like the cap on a tyre valve). To introduce oil, I did what is described in this link: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/oilgun/gunconvert.html The oil is introduced via a semi-rigid pipe attached to the delivery end of the converted oil gun. This pipe has a simple screw-on fitting with a rubber washer at the business end (like a garden hose union and seal at the tap end of the hose). Remove the screw cap on the lathe lubrication point, screw on and tighten the union fitting. Apply gentle pressure to introduce oil. I, too, store the oil gun upright in an old and tall plastic canister to catch any leaks and drips. Best regards Martin F. Slater ------- Leaking Super 7 [myfordlathes] Posted by: drewtx~xxpobox.com drewt_77 Date: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:01 pm ((PST)) I have a vintage (1970's) Myford Super 7 with gear change box. I've had it for about seven years and use it on an irregular basis as an amateur. It sits in a custom-made aluminum pan-style base (has about 2" raised edges) and if I clean up the pan, a day or so later there will be oil in the pan. I can't tell exactly where it is from but I'm pretty sure it's not from the gear box as it remains full. The most likely place seems to be the countershaft bearings as there are two oil caps attached to the clutch inside the cover and whenever I look at them they are empty. Compare this to the oil cap for the headstock bearing and it rarely needs filling. I'm assuming it should not leak like this and I'm wondering: a) ideas on what could be wrong, b) how to find exactly what is wrong, c) the possible damage that could occur (or has occurred). ------- Re: Leaking Super 7 Posted by: "Mike Crossfield" miked.crossfieldx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:30 am ((PST)) The 7 series lathes employ a total loss lubrication system, so the oil that you put into any of the many oiling points ultimately ends up in the drip tray. If I oil all the points on my lathe, which is in good condition, I can guarantee some puddles underneath after a few hours (and the countershaft oilers will need topping up). Incidentally, if your gearbox is completely oil tight, you are in a very fortunate minority! Mike ------- Re: Leaking Super 7 Posted by: "Andrew Moyes" admx~xxamoyes.fsbusiness.co.uk moyes_a Date: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:48 am ((PST)) The countershaft bearings are Oilite (or equivalent) which are oil retaining. As a result, they don't need the addition of oil very often. In fact, in many applications there is no provision for re-oiling after initial installation and the oil lasts the life of the bearing. The design of the Myford countershaft bearings is such that all the oil you put in will run straight out, apart from the little that is sucked into the porous walls of the bearing or retained in the running clearance. It can end up all over the belt so I would change to the practice of just putting a few drops in once a year. The front headstock bearing on the other hand is plain bronze and must be constantly replenished or it will seize. Andrew M ------- Re: Leaking Super 7 Posted by: "Mike Crossfield" miked.crossfieldx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:30 am ((PST)) I agree that, for the countershaft oil, its bearing cups do not need to be kept full at all times, but "a few drops once a year" seems to go to the other extreme, especially if running the lathe at high speed. As a matter of interest, in the Super 7 manual, Myfords say to lubricate these points daily. Mike ------- Re: Leaking Super 7 Posted by: nickhulmex~xxyahoo.com nickhulme Date: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:48 am ((PST)) I fill mine at the start of the day; if I'm doing a lot of turning I'll fill them up again once or twice during the day, that's worked fine for 20 years or so. I've recently switched to a fully synthetic oil with Molybdenum Disulphide to minimise long term wear. I'll let you know how that goes in another 20 ;-) Nick ------- Re: New Oilers [myfordlathes] Posted by: "Kevin" tadpolex~xxbtinternet.com klokenz Date: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:19 am ((PST)) On 23/02/2016 17:59, topconkerx~xxyahoo.com [myfordlathes] wrote: > I have 2 brand new ones from Myford, (supplied with no washers)! and > the levers that control them on and off are just flopping about at the > moment and I'm not sure how to get them working. On the original style oilers, when the top lever is set horizontal the internal needle goes down fully and closes off the hole so that no oil drips into the bearing. In this situation the horizontal lever is indeed floppy. This is the position when the lathe is not being used. When required for use, turn the lever so that it points straight up. This raises the internal needle and allows oil to drip. Immediately below the lever is a knurled nut and locknut. The knurled nut is adjusted so as to raise the needle and lever assembly until the desired oil drop rate is achieved, then locked with the locknut. That's the original oilers. Various slightly different designs have appeared over the years from other manufacturers. Reportedly proper industrial types perfectly satisfactory, some cheap ones through the model engineering trade truly awful. But generally the principle is the same. Kevin, England ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------