This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Here find ideas, how-to information, references and tips about folks' metalworking related projects. This file started out as a place I could stow references to neat projects. I have no illusions that I will ever make (m)any of the more-complex mechanical marvels. In any event, the projects are a source of wonder and inspiration. Perhaps they are also useful in employing methods or giving tips that will be of use in our own less challenging works. They may also give some ideas to more enterprising members as to producing items that might bring a happy buck. Could help pay for this hobby, or take the spouse out to dinner for tolerating (surely not enjoying?) so much time without our company. Extracted from the intro to this site's Home Shop Business file: "Just remember to check out the patent situation. Doing a one-off car part for yourself is okay. Making and selling that same part is only okay if there is no patent still in force. If in doubt, or you plain don't know the patent status, invest some time in research to save much money in court." Initially the projects were mostly metal stuff for metalworkers. But woodworkers can also benefit from tools and jigs needing metalwork in their construction. So projects involving metalwork are now being added, no matter which hobby they ultimately benefit. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2016 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ====================================================================== From: "Y.K.Chan" Date: Sun Jul 9, 2000 5:04 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] Stirling plans From: > Please,I'd like,if possible to know where I can find,the plans for > the Stirling Hot Air which Mr.Tim Schroeder displayed in the > Sherline Catalog pg.44. Thanks Those are my favorite pages. Enjoy. http://www.steamengine.com.au/se/info/stirling/livesteam_stirling/ http://www.webmania.com.au/se/info/stirling/buildme_pics.html YK Seattle ------- Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:47:53 -0600 From: Ron Roske Subject: Re: New Member Paul Welcome and I am fairly new to the group, myself. Have a suggestion for a simple and useful item as a first project. This is one of the first things that I did anyway. Measure the distance from the top of the table to the center of the spindle. Take a piece of 3/4 to 1" brass rod, several inches long and turn one end flat. Cut a step, at least 1/8" to maybe 1/4" deep, on the rod that is the same as your measurement taken from the flat end. Continue that cut for an inch or so towards the flat end. Finish off the other end in any way that you see fit. You now have a gauge that you can use to set the height of your cutting bits and cut off tools. You can buy one of these from Sherline for a few bucks, but I enjoyed doing this and felt that I had accomplished something constructive when I had finished it. Best of luck and again, welcome. -Ron- ------- Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:26:42 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: How to make a locomotive Here is something I ran across browsing old Model Railroader magazines. I know many of you like to make steam locomotives and here is how it is done full scale. Described by a small girl after visiting Baldwin works. You pour a lot of sand into a lot of boxes and you throw old stove lids and things into a furnace, and then you empty the molten stream into a hole in sand and everybody yells and swears. Then you pour it out and let it cool and pound it, and then you put it in a thing that bores holes in it. Then you screw it together and paint it and put steam in it and it goes splendidly, and they take it to the drafting room and make a blueprint of it. But, one thing I forgot - they have to make a boiler. One man gets inside and one gets outside, and they pound it frightfully. And then they tie it to the other thing, and you ought to see it go! John Meacham High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock. ------- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:29:24 -0000 From: karl.grossx~xxgm.com Subject: fly tying vise I've been a member of this group for awhile, mostly enjoying the posts and amazed at all the help and knowledge that is available. I am new to machining after finding a sherline lathe and mill at a garage sale. I've been building one of Rudy K's two cylinder marine steam engines for the last 6 months(didn't know what I was getting into),and I'm working in a world I never new existed. I would like to make a fly tying vise (old hobby)and wonder if anyone has ever seen a plan for one. Any help would be great.Looking forward to meeting some of you at the NAMES show in April. ------- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:55:08 -0000 From: stevetarvinx~xxhotmail.com Subject: Re: fly tying vise Karl: I don't have plans but I tried making a vise one time the problem is finding an alloy for the jaws that won't set in the closed position. I tried hardening annealing tempering several different types of steel I had in the shop and never could solve the problem. I finally converted it into a line winder and bought a new vise. If you solve the jaw problem I'd like to hear how. Good luck,and welcome to a lifetime of learning. steve ------- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:55:22 -0600 From: Gordon Couger Subject: Re: Re: fly tying vise I would try to find a coil spring that the steel is large enough in diameter to make the jaws and anneal it, straighten it, machine it and heat treat it. Gordon Gordon Couger gcougerx~xxcouger.com Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger ------- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:06:46 -0600 From: Gordon Couger Subject: Re: Re: fly tying vise > Wouldn't drill rod machined, hardened and tempered work well? > I also would like to see plans for a vise. > Haven't fished and tied flies for years It might but it wouldn't work as well or last as long as spring steel. A great deal of money and research has been spent on springs and tool steel the qualities needed in each of them are radically different. Another consideration might be to use music wire to provide the spring for the jaws. Attaching the music wire to the jaws would be a challenge. Gordon ------- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:29:50 -0600 From: Custom Built Fishing Rods Subject: Re: fly tying vise I would say if you are on the front side of your learning curve, buy a good set of jaws from someone like Renzetti and build the rest of the vise. A good start on a plan would be (again) a good exploded view of an existing commercially produced model that you liked. ------- Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:36:37 -0500 From: "Marshall Pharoah" Subject: Re: fly tying vise Think outside the curve. When I was a teenager first tying flies I used a pair of needle nose pliers with a rubberband to hold them closed. If the thought of a collet scares you, use a screw clamp arrangement. Marshall ------- Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:23:12 -0600 From: Custom Built Fishing Rods Subject: Re: fly tying vise I am a long time tier (and machinist), and I struggled for years with pliers and rubber bands, $30 imported vises, etc., etc. I even gave up tying for a while because of the frustration factor associated with these pieces of junk. I finally broke down and spent a bit more money for a quality vise and it makes all the difference in the world. The point of all this is, if you want a good fly tying vise and feel the desire to make your own, why spend months (and extra dollars) fabricating a complicated, less than adequate device when you can spend around $50 (far less than one could build a set for) for a set of jaws that will work first time every time and not involve an act of congress to adjust for different hook sizes. On the other hand, if you are already set up to cut complex angles in the hardest of steels to very close tolerances, heat treat and professionally finish these parts so they won't rust, then by all means have at it. I gave up reinventing the wheel a long time ago. Trying to fab a set of jaws as good as could be had for a few bucks would be like trying to grind endmills from stock; why bother when someone else has gone to the trouble to make them already? Unless bragging rights are your primary concern, buy the jaws and build the rest. ------- Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:33:51 -0500 From: Tom Bank Subject: Re: Re: Re: fly tying vise Gordon and Les, It seems that a lot of us were fly tiers before we got the where-with-all to buy our machining equipment. I too have all the fly-tying gear and supplies, but lack the time away from the machinery to turn out the bugs. Metal chips are just more fun! But on the subject of the jaws, I would use plain unhardened drill rod. The problem with the spring steel is that it would be so hard it wouldn't conform at all to the steel of the hook, gripping at one small point only, and then allowing the hook to swing up and down around that point as you attempted to tie the fly, wearing the varnish off the hook in the process. I think the real key to making the vise jaws is to make sure the slit between the two jaws goes back maybe 2-1/2" into the collet tube to allow enough metal to bend back and forth without taking a set. I too have the kind of vise where the jaws are retracted by a rear-end cam into a collet sleeve, made by Herters or Thompson back in the '50s. I am sure that that vice has "soft jaws" -- if unhardened steel can be considered soft. I also had other vises before it that had harder jaws and I ruined some good hooks as well as frustrated myself trying to tie flies on them before I bought the whole set from Herters. Too bad old George turned that business over to his grandson. The kid ran the company bankrupt -- with the help of the government and their restrictions on selling firearms. I know, off topic, but it is interesting that the restrictions on importing wild bird feathers that put such a crimp in fly tying from the mid-fifties to the eighties have now been relaxed. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:05:46 -0500 From: Tom Bank Subject: My mistake; was Fly Tying Vise I'm sorry, I was wrong. I think Les had the right answer. Then again, Gordon may be describing the stuff used in the modern vises. It sounds like both Les and I have not kept up with the latest developments in vise making. After sending my e-mail last night, I went up to bed and pulled a book titled "Professional Fly Tying and Tackle Making Manual and Manufacturers' Guide" by George L. Herter from the book shelf (first copyright was 1941). In it, George comments on the development of the vise. "An American, Mr. D. H. Thompson, of Elgin, Illinois, made the first advancement in fly vises a good many years ago by bringing out a lever-operated model which worked on the cam principle.... Engineers from the Herter Corporation next brought out a line of vises and tools designed for the commercial tyer. Jaws on these vises are made of alloy steel, hardened all the way through instead of case hardened, and all parts are made for extreme durability under prolonged use." This morning I went down and pulled my vise apart. I would say the jaws are drill rod, chromed at the tip. There is a 1/16" slot about 1-1/2" long to split the jaws and the jaws are drawn by the cam into a collet, behind which the jaw piece is necked to 9/32". That means you have the two jaws on the ends of inch long stems that are slightly less than 1/8" wide and rounded in profile on the outside. My vise jaws have taken a slight set because for the most part I was tying very small flys, but they still open 3/64" wide and could be sprung back further if necessary for salmon hooks. For salt water fly tying, I think Herter's made a larger vise. Mr. Gross, I don't have drawings of the pieces in the vise, but would it be of any help if I pulled my vise (a Herter's #9) apart and scanned the pieces to give you an idea of what parts are involved? I could then answer any questions on thread sizes and how the parts fit and work together. I might even make a vise of my own some day. I have been thinking for a number of years of making what the furniture craftsmen call a secretary, with a fold down front, that would be an elaborate fly tying bench. In it I would like to put a vise on a vertical shaft with a round knob at the base that could be clamped tight to hold it up or released to lay it down flat and then covered with a slide-out writing surface. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:02:54 -0600 From: Custom Built Fishing Rods Subject: Re: My mistake; was Fly Tying Vise When you get ready to build that fancy tying bench, don't mount the vise to the top, build a nice base that can be moved around the top. This will allow you to work on the fly from any angle without having to disturb your setup. I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would want to go to the trouble of scratch building something like the Thompson standard vise. The advent of the rotary vise has made fly tying fun, and much simpler than doing it with a fixed head vise like the Thompson. For inspiration, check out the Renzetti and Dyna-King lines, they are the current standard by which all others are measured. For absolute simplicity of operation (any hook size held without jaw adjustment) look at the Regals. They offer a rotating head model which is popular with production tyers thanks to the jaw design that allows going from a #22 to a #6 (or larger) hook simply by taking one out and inserting the other. Don't confuse a rotating head style vise with a true rotary vise. The true rotary design allows the hook to be spun on the shank centerline so your material is simply held and wound onto the hook. A rotating head design allows the head (jaws) to be rotated for viewing, but material must be wound on by rotating the material about the hook. Trust me on this one, the rotary design is by far the simplest and easiest to use. If anyone is interested, I have a nice exploded view of the Renzetti Traveler vise that includes part numbers and details of both a clamp mount and a pedestal base mount. ------- Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:36:07 -0000 From: ssmithx~xxserena.com Subject: Re: How To? > I'm planning on making some T-Slots in a piece of aluminum that I > want to match those in the Sherline Equipment. I know that the > method is to make a straight groove in the metal using a standard > 1/4 inch end mill. Once this groove is made, the next step is to > use a tool that has a smaller shaft and is able to cut the lower > part of the groove wall. What is the tool that I > want to use called, and where can it be purchased? > Jerry Jankura, Strongsville, Ohio So many toys, so little time This has come up in the past and you may want to search previous messages. There is no T slot cutters for the shurline T slot. However the Woodruff key seat cutter STD 207 (3/32 face 5/16 dia) would work. The only problem is that is has a 1/2 shank. You could use a 4 jaw check to hold it and zero it in. Or as I plan, to make my own holder from a 3055 #1 morse blank. Or as others plan and bore out a 3/8 mill holder. Some Woodruff key seat cutters may a shaft out the bottom face that needs to be ground flat. ------- Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:02:20 -0000 From: "david albert" Subject: Re: fly fishing reel plans > Looking for plans to make a small reel on my Sherline. Know that > popular mechanics has plans back in 50s but can't find that issue. > any ideas> I am trying to do the same thing. I am going to model my reels after the Bauer reels I currently own. (www.bauerflyreel.com) I have an LM3 and a MX4. I can give you my measurements if you are interested, but I don't have plans. I'm just taking things one step at a time, i.e. measure, cut, measure, cut.... As you start your building, please keep me informed on how you chuck up 3.5" thru 4.5" aluminum bar stock on your sherline lathe. Also, if you know of a place to buy inexpensive teflon sealed stainless steel ball bearings. Most reels have between 3-4 ball bearings and the cheapest price I've found is $3.00/ea. Good luck! ------- Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:40:51 -0000 From: jca455x~xxmindspring.com Subject: Re: fly fishing reel plans > I am trying to do the same thing. I am going to model my reels after > the Bauer reels I currently own. I have the same notion, among to build my own reel. I plan on modeling mine on the "Loop" reel system. The one with the triangular frame with the 3 rollers on the inside of the reel. This should save me from having to turn large, round stock. I can form the real from 2 pieces of flat stock, cut round, and attach them with spacers. Let me know how yours turns out. Good luck. Joe A. ------- Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 21:43:15 -0000 From: stevetarvinx~xxhotmail.com Subject: Re: fly fishing reel plans David: I've made several Ross replica reels and although I dont have a sherline lathe (only a mill) You should look for articles by Mr WR Smith regarding his super glue jig the first time i used one i took huge cuts on a 10" lathe trying to get it to fail it didnt. The jig is just a piece of round aluminun with a morse taper shaft on one surface to attach to the lathe spindle faced and grooved on the other end,the grooves seem to be the seceret as once they they fill up you have to scrape or soak in acetone With this jig you turn face and bore, they really do work good luck steve ------- Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 22:43:37 -0000 From: dlouis1x~xxqwest.net Subject: Re: fly fishing reel plans Thanks David. I plan on using the faceplate, take two sided sticky tape and turn very slowly. I have done this in the past with success. will keep you posted. I have used it for turning plexiglass rounds with some success. Will check out the Bauer site. ------- Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:18:21 -0600 From: "Bill May" Subject: RE: fly fishing reel plans Correction on that issue. It's the January '51 of MECHANIX ILLUSTRATED, not Popular Mechanics. If you would like me to scan the article, let me know. ------- Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:25:01 EST From: tadici283x~xxcs.com Subject: Re: Grade of bearings? In a message dated 3/26/2001, lasernerdx~xxhotmail.com writes: > Does anyone know what kind, or grade of radial ball bearings the Taig > headstock uses? I've got this crazy idea (well, dream really) to make > a horizontal CNC machining center (what AM I smoking??) and I want to > make a custom headstock for it. I find the Taig's is too small and I > don't like the spindle taper it has (for a QC tooling system). > Thanks for any help, You can get a 3"x3" by 4" block of alumin and have it machined to fit Timken bearings races and use a MT2 extension add a few dust covers and mount some XL pulleys and you have a nice dropdead strong headstock, the tapered bearings do not hurt my feelings also. I have made one already but am experimenting with it now; it was not to costly a project either. I have approx. 14.00 in the bearings; the block of alumin was approx. 2.00 and machining by my larger lathe and 4 jaw chuck, you will need a rather large lathe to do the machining (I can machine a 24" flywheel on my lathe) or send it out. Some other odd parts and you have a solid headstock. I had plans to post some pictures, but moved into a new shop (a house came with it, ha ha) but I will in a few weeks. Any questions please feel free to write. Chris of Bradenton FLA ------- Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:40:24 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Grade of bearings? At 03:33 27/03/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Does anyone know what kind, or grade of radial ball bearings the Taig >headstock uses? I've got this crazy idea (well, dream really) to make >a horizontal CNC machining center (what AM I smoking??) and I want to >make a custom headstock for it. I find the Taig's is too small and I >don't like the spindle taper it has (for a QC tooling system). Mine are marked "6203-Z". They are a fairly standard, 40mm OD 17mm ID, single row bearing. See [join three lines together, no spaces]: http://rswww.com/itc/scripts/Module.jsp?BV_Sess ionID=x~xxx~xxx~xxx~xx1396934854.0985682193x~xxx~xxx~xxx~xx&BV_Engi neID=halkhhgdedmbemfcfkmcggcg.0&usertype=guest&productID=2867978 or go to: http://rswww.com/ and do a search on 6203. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 11:24:08 -0500 [sherline] From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: Re: First project with my new rotary table Rab, I do not divulge my inlay techniques to anybody. This was a process that I developed without any outside assistance. I have a Ph.D. in chemical engineering and a strong material science background. It is a very interesting and amazing process which holds the inlays permanently in place. Even the CNC kits are too much of a bother for me right now, none of them seem to work without excessive amounts of tinkering. The rings are held with various sets of soft jaws for the 3-jaw chuck. By using the soft jaws you can make 2 sets which will hold every possible ring size from 2-16+ and never have to make any mandrels or other LIMITED size holders. One set hold the ring by the outside diameter and another set can be made to hold them by the inside diameter. And if you screw up the jaws, they are only $35 a set (-15%). ------- From: "John Shadle" Date: Sat Jun 23, 2001 7:07 pm Subject: Torsion balance clock. My torsion balance clock is finished. The lathe work was done with my Taig Microlathe and my Sherline mill, plus a lot of help from the ancient and battered old Mosely watchmakers lathe. There are a few pictures here: The balance wheel runs dead true. It was trued using the internal "full circle" soft jaws on the Taig, then drilled on the Sherline rotary table without removing it from the Taig chuck, which fits on the Sherline. http://www.geocities.com/jshadle.geo/clockten.html John B. Shadle, CMC Online Clockbuilding: http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/online_clock_building http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/ ------- From: "John Shadle" Date: Fri Jun 29, 2001 7:13 pm Subject: Yet another new clock finished. Hard to believe, but I've just finished another clock. This one is a miniature version of the Online Clockbuilding project. Actually, I made it last winter and have just gotten the finish work done so that it can go to the Crafts Contest in New Orleans next week For those who want a peek, pix can be found at: http://us.geocities.com/jshadle.geo/clocknine.html Or it can be reached through my main webpage. http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/ I want to thank everyone for the positive comments I got on the last clock. Your encouragement is much appreciated, believe me. The next clock will be a long time coming. John B. Shadle, CMC Online Clockbuilding: http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/online_clock_building http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/ ------- From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 1:43 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] New project deanwx~xxv... wrote: > For any who wish to take a look, I've expanded my webpages with the > addition of a new project. It's a simple indexing fixture that I > built over a year ago, and have finally got around to starting a page > for it. It's at http://home.rmci.net/deanw/shop-3.html > I've used it to cut some gears for a small gas engine I am currently > building and it has worked well. Check it out if you'd like. > Regards Dean W Hi Dean, Nice project! I'll tune in later to see how you accurately layout the holes. I've used surplus gears and timing belt pulleys, I'm curious to see what you've come up with! I now have sherline's rotary table, with a stepper attached, so it becomes quite easy! I can either use Vector CAD/CAM to generate the Gcode, or drive it directly from a little indexing program I have. The "Bedside Reader" has a technique where you calculate a ring circle, and use pins to index around (you calculate for n pins to exactly fit the ring circle cut into a disk). Quite clever, I thought! Alan KM6VV ------- From: deanwx~xxv... Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 3:41 pm Subject: Re: New project Thanks Alan; I used a trick I learned in a mechanical drawing class I took a few years back. It's just dividing a line into equal parts and then wrap the line around a disc to find where the holes go. (The line is on a piece of paper.) The page for it is up now. Takes longer for me to type it out than to do it! There's a lot to be learned in those Bedside Readers too. I like 'em. Regards, Dean W ------- From: "Daniel Munoz" Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 3:59 pm Subject: Flying chips Hi guys! I've made my first cut with my Sherline lathe last week-end and want to share my excitement! Wow, amazing tool! After letting it sleep for a while because of lack of a place to install it, I'm stunned about how easy the lathe cut some brass and aluminum. Making chips flying was a real pleasure. Ok, the project I started was very humble, a brass cannon, and the result is far from my expectations (and the original plan picture and sizes!). But it's good enough for a first cut ;-) And my wife find it lovely, so... Now, I will need to learn and practice a lot! And after that and making a complete cannon (well, 6 of them in fact for my ship model), I will go a step further and try to build a drill press attachment. Unlike the existing design based on Ron's drill attachment, I didn't want to infringe Ron's intellectual property and design something very different. Mine could be all the time attached, between the motor and the Z column as a block spacer (there is a positive lock in the design to avoid unexpected Z movements in mill use). There is a handle, moving up and down, just as a real drill press. And I think (hope) rigidity is good enough. But I designed it before seeing the Sherline mill for real, and was surprised by the weight of the motor/head component. Now, I'm not so sure ... I don't know if I'm able to build something rigid and strong enough, and I don't have the guts to machine steel yet! Well, we'll see. I'll post the plans some day. After that, I still have to try to build my table-saw attachment, and also a RPM counter based on an odometer bicycle I have in mind for a while... and, the engine from Rudy's "Steam Engine Video". Now I can appreciate in its full sense the sentence: "So many toys, so little time" As my shop if full of toys, but I don't have all the time I would to use them! Ahhh, I need to go back to work. good day to all! Daniel Quebec, Canada. ------- Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 10:57:53 -0400 From: "Daniel Munoz" Subject: Guns and puzzles Hi guys, after a long wait, I've finally made something with my Sherline lathe and mill! For the mill, I've found a perfect project to learn about tolerance, depth cutting and flat milling; the result is not very impressive, but as a total beginner I liked that project and how easily and quickly I can have a tangible thing to play with: http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/puzzle/puzzle1.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/puzzle/puzzle2.jpg If someone now can tell me now how perfectly polish aluminium... For the lathe, maybe some of you remember I'm a ship modeler, and I've finished the canon of the ship I'm building, "La Belle". Here they are: http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon1.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon2.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon3.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon4.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon5.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canonx6.jpg Luckily, there's one 6 guns in that ship ! I'll be happy to have some comments; please be gentle, those are my very first try to let some metal chips fly all over the shop :-) Daniel Quebec, Canada ------- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:25:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Leetle Beety Oscillator I finished that small oscillating steam engine last night. Keep in mind this is my first engine! That being said, I've got some questions: How much $#%# air does it take to make one of these things turn?! People in "Steam & Stirling" keep talking about stuff like, "It runs like a humming bird on just 5psi of air!" Errr... Ok, mine runs like a rock on 5 psi of air... My guess is I've got too much friction in the system, but once again, this is my first steam engine. I'm admittedly ignorant on the subject. I did make one change from my original design: I'd had a completely flat-sided flywheel. I realized it was rubbing up against the upright, causing a great deal of friction. I faced off one side down to a small shoulder, maybe 3/16" across (it's on a 1/8" axle). This helped a lot, and I can free-wheel it by hand a lot easier. But it still won't spin when I hook it up to a low-pressure air supply. Any ideas? I'll take pictures tonight and post them so you can get a better idea of what I did (right AND wrong). Tom ------- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:01:54 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Leetle Beety Oscillator A lot of it depends on the friction of the pivot - valve thingy, try and get the tension (your pivot nut is spring loaded?) down. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 13:24:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Leetle Beety Oscillator On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein wrote: > A lot of it depends on the friction of the pivot - valve thingy, try > and get the tension (your pivot nut is spring loaded?) down. Yeah, it's spring loaded. I've got a fair amount of travel on the screw and the spring, so it's easy to set the tension. Last night I'd completely removed the spring and screw, and just turned the motor on its side to let gravity do the work. Still no dice. I figure once I get it right, I'll grind the spring to length so I can go ahead and cinch down the screw. But I was leaving that 'till last until I'd cleaned up every other source of friction. I do have some questions about lubricants: Would one lubricate one of these things, or do you run them dry? Would a dry graphite lubricant work better than, say, oil? WHERE would you lubricate? The reason I'm asking is that at some point last night I realized I had a film of oil on EVERYTHING. Sure 'nuff, I wiped off the oil on some of hte mating surfaces, and it moved a lot easier. Do people typically lap the pivot - valve thingy against each other? ;) I flat-lapped both parts, but I can see they're not meeting up absolutely perfectly because of the wear markings on both parts. Thanks, Tom ------- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:36:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Leetle Beety Oscillator Ok, got pictures up. It's in my folder "Tom's Taig" under "Oscillator". Three overall views: osc-fw-view.jpg - View from the flywheel osc-piston-view.jpg - View from the piston osc-qtr-view.jpg - 3/4 view Two closeups: osc-fw-clearance.jpg - Clearance on the flywheel. Pretty sure I mentioned having faced off one side of the flywheel to provide clearance. This is basically a shot of that. osc-cylinder.jpg - Basically a shot of the fit between the cylinder and the upright. I've got a short bit of plastic hose stuck on one of the air tubes so I can hook it up using 1/4" tubing. When it's hooked up to an aquarium pump, it definitely spins much more happily in one direction than in the other. But it won't run on its own. One idea I had for reducing friction between the cylinder and the upright was to cut a shallow clearance on the back of the cylinder where it fits against the upright, leaving contact pads at the valves, and at the bottom of the cylinder. Lemme know what you think! Tom ------- Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:24:35 +0800 From: Alison & Jim Gregg Subject: Re: Leetle Beety Oscillator Hi Tom. Two things come to mind re the oscillator. 1. DEFINITELY relieve the faces around the pivot pin so you have a raised land at each end of the mating faces ie one where the ports are, and one at the other end. The area in the middle contributes large amounts of friction, while contributing absolutely nothing to the engines operation. The only function of the prot faces is to provide valve events while sealing adequately, - thats the port end, and to keep the cylinder parallel to the axis of the engine - the bottom end of the face. It is better to remove the metal from the engines standard, not the cylinder, for two reasons - usually there isn't too much metal to screw the pin into on the cylinder assembly, so reducing that makes no sense, and the considerations about alignement, - see also 2. below about how to do it. 2. Pivot Pin. Most model engineers actually build the pivot pin bearing arrangement on oscillators too well!! The functions of the pivot pin are only to stop the cylinder moving up and down or sideways, or falling off the standard, while allowing it to pivot. It has nothing to do with the mating alignement of the sliding action of the port face. Think of it this way - If you have a well fitted long bearing for the pivot pin then the pin is constrained so that it can only move either axially (slide in and out in the bearing), or else move by rotation. It is unable to move sideways or to tilt. You have two mating port faces at right angles to the axis of the pin (or they SHOULD be!). To seal this means an incredible degree of accuracy is needed in both the pivot pin and its bearing with reference to be square with the port faces. If you don't achieve this then two things happen - you get leakage at the port face because the bearing is holding the port faces from seating properly, and you get lots of friction as whatever minute degree of misalignement causes the port face and the pin bearing to bind as they try to self align under the spring pressure. I recently bought some gear from the estate of a deceased member of a local model engineering society, and among it was a box with half a dozen small oscillating engines, several from commercial castings. The box was marked "U/S-failiures - don't work.". In each case he had carefully fitted longer bearings for the pivot pins, and well fitted the pin to the bearings, and there was no relief between the sliding faces. He was right - they did not work. The solution is to cut off the excess bearing length, so there was only about 1/16 -3/32" left and have a slightly sloppy fit for the pivot pin, and to cut the relief into the port face around the pivot pin in the standard. They now work! I suggest you make sure that you have a slightly sloppy fit for the pin so the sliding faces control the alignment, and cut the relief as above. Good luck with it! Jim Gregg. ------- Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 02:37:54 -0000 From: n2562001x~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Leetle Beety Oscillator Tom: You should be able to give the flywheel a spin with your finger and it should spin a couple of times on its own if it is free enough to run. ( without air attached ) If it spins free the only other item will be the intake and exhaust port alignment. The intake should start to open when the piston is all the way foreward . The exhaust should start to open when the piston is all the way to the rear. Just about any oil will work for lubrication and 5 psi will run a properly fit engine of this size. Have Fun Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:51:31 +0800 From: Alison & Jim Gregg Subject: Re: Leetle Beety Oscillator Second Thoughts! Some additional thoughts on this beast. The late "LBSC" writing in the English magazine "Model Engineer" from about 1923 -1970s described a number of oscillating cylinder engines and pumps and he was always very definate about the need to relieve the port faces as discussed earlier. The oscillator is often quoted as a good starter project, and as a project for someone whos work may not be the most accurate due to inexperience that is probably true, but if someone is trying to work very accurately they can be a bit daunting to get going. There are a number of inter-related alignement problems with an oscillator which if you are working accurately create problems, while a bit of sloppiness allow to work better.:- 1. The cylinder and stationary port faces need to be flat and fit well to each other 2. The cylinder bore needs to be parallel with the port face 3. The pivot pin needs to be square with the port face and the bore both ways. 4. The hole or bearing for the pivot pin in the stationary face (the standard) needs to be square to the port face, and fit the pivot pin. 5. The piston needs to be long enough to guide and oscillate the cylinder, and a good but free fit to the bore. 6. The piston rod needs to be straight and the big end bearing at a true right angle to the axis of the piston. 7. The crankshaft bearing needs to be at right angles to the piston/cylinder axis, and square to the port face. 8. The Crank -pin needs to be parallel to the crank shaft. Wow it's a list, and they all interact. The better you make the engine the worse the problems! Solutions all demonstrated by the commercial toy makers:- 3&4 - very short bearing for pivot pin, and slightly sloppy so the port faces self align and seal, and the bearing merely limits up and down and lateral movement of the pin as per previous message. 6/7/8 A short big end bearing slightly sloppy, so that the crankpin/crankshaft to cylinder misalignements do not try to lever the port faces apart. And of course the relieving of the port face as before. These get you minimum friction, and leakage. If you have binding that varies around the rotation of the crankshaft the problem is usually in the alignement of the crankpin or the crankshaft /cylinder alignement. Be sloppy -Be happy!!! Jim Gregg. ------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:35:21 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Re: Small Site Update At 16:20 17/10/2001 +0000, you wrote: >For those who want some of those who would like some of those small >bearings just go to your local computer repair shop and ask >for any DEAD hard drives.... tearing them apart gives me a sense of >satisfying the "caveman" in me... and you get great bearings and other >useful objects for free and you save the environment!!!! phil One of the other useful things you get from cannibalizing hard drives is the platters themselves - very accurately machined aluminium discs with perfectly concentric central holes. They make great encoder discs for rev counters if you cut a few slots in them, or division plates if you drill a few hole circles. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:03:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re: Small Site Update > useful objects for free and you save the environment!!!! Huh! Hadn't actually thought of doing that. I've been bemoaning the loss of one of our local electronics stores. Used to be you could walk in, graze the racks, and come away with RFE steppers, variable speed DC motors, all kinds of stuff. Back in the boom, they completely converted over to selling computer hardware, and they have no plans of switching back. But I know where those steppers came from! 5-1/4" full height floppy drives! Old hard drives also had nice stepper hardware. Newer ones are a good source for voice coils. And ALL of them are a nice supply for castable metal. ;) HMMM! I've got three computer repair places between work and home. I'm gonna take a detour tonight! Tom ------- Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:35:51 -0000 From: "Jim Lewis" Subject: Laser guided spinning top Hi All: I worked several months on a project on my micro lathe and turned it into a commercial product - an ultra high performance spinning top with laser guided balancing. I thought it might motivate some of you guys to use your wonder machine for a commercial product of your own. Pix and tech details of the device are here: http://www.miclog.com/top Regards, Jim ------- Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:41:26 -0000 From: "Jim Lewis" Subject: Re: Laser guided spinning top > The web page says it's got six adjustment screws in it. Where did > you put them? Hi Tom: The holes are milled into the bottom and filled with micro counterweights. It's kinda fun adjusting the weights. Regards, Jim ------- Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:37:13 -0000 From: lesgrenzx~xxhotmail.com Subject: Re: Model Railroad Turnout Jig ideas In sherline, "Chuck & Joanne Johnston"wrote: >I am just starting my first narrow gauge layout (HOn3) and wondered if >anyone out there has built any Jigs for building turnouts ? I have several >ideas but hate to reinvent something that someone else has perfected or >tried. Any ideas will be appreciated. I am also looking for ideas on switch >operating mechanisms. Thanks, Chuck Johnston, Ft Collins Co. Hi Chuck, Welcome to the world of HOn3. I would suggest checking out the HOn3 e- group. they can supply a wealth of information for the beginner and advanced modeler alike. You are close to Caboose Hobbies in Denver. They have lots of experienced staff who can make recommendations. A great place to visit for the weekend. Regards, Les Http://lesgrenz.homestead.com/Leshomepage.html ------- Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:12:25 -0000 From: trainman80005x~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Model Railroad Turnout Jig ideas Chuck: I have been building turnouts for years and they are not difficult. I would recommend buying a handmade turnout from Caboose Hobbies looking it over closely, buying a couple lengths of nickel silver rail and having at it. You will be supprised how easy they are. By the time you have built your second turnout you willhave the technique. I also recommend you make several track gauges on the lathe, they do come in handy as you build your turnouts. You should be able to make a fixture with the proper frog angle to construct the frogs in and solder them together. Machining and Model Railroading, Two of gods gifts to us. It doesn't get much better than this. Lee Brown ------- Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:58:27 -0700 From: "John Shadle" Subject: starter clock project There's a good book by John Wilding called "How to make a weight-driven 8-day wall clock." John is a person who's written many manuals on building clocks. This would be a good starter project. There are new copies of John Wilding's books out there that are put out by the British Horological Institute. These, unfortunately, are barely-discernable photocopies, and expensive at that. If you can find copies of old books on the internet, it's a better deal. You might also be able to get them through inter-library loan at your local library. The demand for these books is low, so no publishers are much interested in printing them. If there were a demand, I'd likely do some myself. John B. Shadle, CMC Online Clockbuilding: http://onlineclockbuilding.com Clock photo gallery: http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/ ------- Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:09:34 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Re: Cross feed If you want to build a power supply for 12/24v motors, there are some nice schematics of model train throttles on the web. These are one of the good sources for low voltage variable power supplies as they are trying to get a wide speed range with significant power over that whole range. The typical current capability of most of the throttles is in the 1-10A areas and with a look at the output section, that power can be upgraded to a lot higher if desired. I've built throttles using 60A devices and I would expect that they would be able to provide that much output current without hardly any problems. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 04:34:14 -0000 From: "jeastwoodlm" Subject: Machinist/musicians: how about making a mouthpiece? As a sort of "etude" to exercise my machining skills, I decided to try my hand at making a trombone mouthpiece. I've had my 4400 and 5400 lathe and mill for about a year, so am not by any means an experienced machinist. I have been using them a lot and am having a very good and educational time, turning out digital camera-to-telescope adaptors for myself and my amateur astronomer buddies, various bits of tooling and accessories, and the occasional odd project such as this mouthpiece. See the Photos section of this group; the name is Trombone Mouthpiece. I obtained a mouthpiece from my father, a retired elementary band teacher (and definitely NOT retired trombonist). I took some measurements, thought about it a bit, and started making chips. The only challenging part was the taper inside the shank of the mouthpiece. Even measuring the taper on the pattern mouthpiece was non-trivial. At the end it was easy to measure, and not so hard to measure at the bottom of the bowl, but I also wanted to know if the taper was linear or some curve. I used my digital voltmeter as a continuity tester and a thin rod held in the tool holder as a probe, and got a notion of the shape of the inside bore. It was indeed not linear, but a slightly parabolic shape. The ID of the bore at the end of the shank was easily measured (.35") The other critical dimension is the "throat", the opening at the bottom of the bowl at the other end of the shank. I didn't have a good way of measuring this opening, since my dial caliper would not reach far enough into the bowl. I finally hit upon using my 1-60 drill bit set as gauges. This quickly led to a figure of .23" as the throat diameter (I subsequently bought a Starrett taper gauge and two telescoping hole gauges for this kind of measurement; an addition to your toolkit I can recommend. The telescoping gauges are Starrett part #579A and 829B; the taper gauge is #267. ) Boring the taper inside the shank was interesting. I tried making a long boring tool, but as expected it deflected too much in use to be effective. I ended up step drilling the shank to approximate the contour of the bore, then using files and sandpaper to smooth the interior. The inner and outer parts of the bowl were step turned, filed and sanded in a similar fashion. To get a nice finish I tried a tip from one of Guy Lautard's "Machinist's Bedside Reader" books (these are great books!) where a reader wrote to him about how well 1000, 1500 and 2000 grit sandpaper works for making smooth shiny finishes. This type of sandpaper is more readily available at auto parts stores than standard hardware/home improvement outlets. The result? Plugged into a trombone, it worked! I was curious as to how critical the dimensions would be; the extent I was able to duplicate the pattern was apparently sufficient, since two trombonists were able to play their 'bones just fine with my mouthpiece. As a practical matter, a raw brass mouthpiece is not terribly useful. Real mouthpieces are gold, silver or nickel plated, for the same reason that such metals are used in jewelry. Nonetheless, it was an interesting experience to see if I could produce a mouthpiece that would function. French horn, trumpet, baritone and tuba mouthpieces should also be feasible to make. French horn and trumpet would be more of a challenge since they are smaller, with smaller throats. Regards, Jeff Eastwood ------- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:17:16 -0600 From: "Sedota, Kevin" Subject: RE: Machinist/musicians: how about making a mouthpiece ? Jeff, nice job. I can attest to the fact that makeing a mouthpiece is no easy feat. Consistency is the key. (Something some major manufacturers haven't yet figured out.) The problem is that the bowl of the mouth piece is a double radius curve. Anyone familiar with Weatherby rifle cases will recognoze this basic shape. No sharp shoulders. everything is curved. My gunsmith tells me that cutting the reamers for these is a very tricky thing to do and that in the beginning, when these cartridges were new, each reamer you would get would be different. I don't know how the factory makes mouth pieces but if they use reamers this might explain the inconsistency. On a mouthpiece, however, it doesn't end there. Once past the opening there is another radius curve although not as severe. This part of the mouthpiece is known as the back bore. While some may not realize it, the design of this part of the mouthpiece is just as critical as the bowl or rim. Here's a suggestion for getting the dimensions of the backbore. Gunsmiths use something called cerrosafe(sp?). It's a substance with a very low melting point. It's used to measure the dimensions for a rifle chamber. You plug the barrel end, then pour the molten cerrosafe into the chamber. Once it cools you pop out the mold and measure. I would think you could do the same thing with a mouth piece. Plug the aperture then fill the back bore with the stuff. When you step cut the bowl did you use a boring bar or a turning tool? I was also thinking you could use a ball end endmill on the mill and a rotory table. I'm pretty happy with my current mouthpiece (a Stork 5) but one can always tinker. Another modification I have on my list is to put a screw rim on a mouth piece. (There are places that will do this for you but where's the fun in that?) There are 2 reasons I would like to do this. I have a couple of Shilke mouthpieces but I hate the rims on these. I'd like to try putting a rim with a sharper soulder. The other reason is that we occasionally have to play outdoors. I'd like to cut a plastic rim. One last thing. Mouthpieces are make primarily out of brass. They are only plated in silver or gold. If you want to pursue it you could probably find some place locally that will plate it for you. Good luck Kevin Sedota ------- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:34:17 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Machinist/musicians: how about making a mouthpiece? Hi Kevin: Have you considered dental impression rubber for this application? Dead-nuts accurate, and won't stick to the mouthpiece. Easy to pop out, even past undercuts. Cheers Marcus -------- Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:48:29 +1000 From: "Charlie Lear" Subject: Real work On this list we're all True Believers [tm] and don't have any questions about the capabilities of our little machines. The other day someone from another engineering list mentioned in an email to me, "Of course, you can't do that on a Sherline." So here's a question - what "Real Work" have you done on your machines? Stuff which wouldn't ordinarily be considered the province of a miniature tool. I'll kick it off - ten minutes ago I came in from the workshop, tired but happy - here's a pic of the final cut of the 7/16" tool slot in a universal toolholder for my new 9" lathe, machined out of a solid block of alloy tool steel. I used a 1/4" slot drill cutting 1/8" depth, medium revs and using Tap Magic as a cutting lubricant. My mill is a plain-jane 5100. I've just got four holes to drill and tap and it's finished - a bit of real work, on a real machine. http://www.steammachine.com/hercus/toolholder.jpg Cheers Charlie Charlie Lear, Melbourne, Australia clearx~xxsteammachine.com Hutt Valley Model Engineer Soc. http://steammachine.com/hvmes Eastern Bays Little Blue Penguin Foundation: same site /penguins ------- Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:56:54 -0400 From: "John Guenther" Subject: RE: Real work I have built a QC tool post and holders for my 7x12 lathe using my Sherline 5400 mill, converted to CNC. I have also machined the 5 x 16 inch front panel for my CNC driver box using the Sherline mill and made a set of tapered gib's and brackets for my 7x12 lathe. I will post pictures of the QC tool post and machining the front panel later today. John Guenther Sterling, Virginia ------- Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 14:31:18 -0400 From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Re: The Great Yo Yo Caper [See file Threading.txt or search the Sherline Group for a long Titanium Yo Yo thread] I've been out on business and just got back last night, so I'm catching up. I've had an aluminum high-performance yoyo in my pocket pretty much every day for the last 15 years. My 'daily-driver' yoyo has a steel shaft (6-32 thread) and a hardwood hub. I've got ball-bearing models with a adjustable string gaps, but for me, they just don't throw as smooth as the one with the wooden hub. The halves are counter-bored to a constant depth to accomodate the hub. I spin my own hubs on the sherline (This is the only wood I turn on it), also to a constant length, but I guess you could make them longer or shorter for different gaps. I take pieces of yoyo string and use them as shims to adjust my gap until it feels right. The slight compressability of the wood helps to hold the threads tight, better than metal-to-metal, in my opinion, especially considering the accelerations it faces. I burn through a string every week or two (It depends how stressful work is), and a hub every 3-4 months. The steel shafts eventually work-harden and shear; for me, every couple years. I get hardened bolts and grind the heads off to replace them. I've stripped the threads from one of the aluminum halves of my daily-driver once, and made a steel threaded-insert (like a Heli-coil for cars) on the sherline as a repair. The titanium might be fun to try. Does anybody know the relative stress and malleability numbers between aluminum and titanium? Jim Ash ------- Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 14:17:46 -0500 From: "Don Feinberg" Subject: Completed Project! For "shameless self-promotion", I've put up a website displaying a 4x5 field camera I've just finished building. I couldn't have built it without the Taig mill! Thanks, Nick! The site is at www.duckproductions.com Don Feinberg ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:44:23 -0000 From: "tnance0913" Subject: How to make a bobbin Hi, guys. I have got a machining operation that I can't figure out how to do and hope that some of you can give me a hand. I am making a rope making machine to wind thread into scale rope for model ships. Everything was going along fine until I came to the three bobbins where the thread is stored. The shape of these little beasties requires deep, penetrating left and righthand cuts that I can't seem to manage without the lathe (Sherline, of course) screaming like a banchee. Here are some particulars: The diameter of the bobbin is 1". The center hub has a diameter of 3/8". The height of the bobbin is 3/4". The top and bottom disks are 1/16" thick which means there's a 5/8" gap seperating the disks. I am cutting the bobbins from a 1" diameter rod of cartridge brass. The problem lies in how to cut out the space between the disks. That space is 5/8" wide and 5/16" deep. I used a cutoff tool to cut two slots on the inside of the disks, and am left with removing the remaining metal. It seems you have to drive the tool bit into the work and then move left or right. The lathe objects mightily to such a thing. Our friendship is being sorely tested in this. I think the problem is not having enough space between the disks to get a proper angle on the cutting tool. an anyone tell me how to do this? Is a specially shaped tool required? While this is not a very common operation, I'm sure it crops up from time to time, and there must be a solution. Thanks in advance for any help you may provide. Tom Nance Corpus Christi TX ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:52:24 -0000 From: "flyk35r3" Subject: Re: How to make a bobbin Why not use a sewing machine bobbin? They are a little bit narrower than you describe, but the dimensions are very similar to what you describe. They are available at any fabric store. Gary Severson ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:03:33 -0500 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: Re: How to make a bobbin Hi Gary. Thanks for the reply. I would love to use sewing machine bobbins. In fact, that's what I thought I would use when I designed the machine. But when I tried them, I found that they don't turn very reliably. There is very little pull on the thread - just enough to keep the slack out of the line - and the bobbins must move freely. The commercial bobbins I bought (a lot of them) are all made from bent tin and there are lots of sharp ridges and bumps on them that make them move in jerks or bind up altogether. So I need to machine the bobbins to make a smooth surface that they can ride on. Tom ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:08:28 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Re: How to make a bobbin My wife uses plastic bobbins for her Singer. Might these be of use? You didn't say what tool you were using (Size), how about something like a 1/8 inch left & right, or maybe grind more of an angle on the parting/cutoff tool? Jerry ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:12:53 -0000 From: "buchnerb" Subject: Re: How to make a bobbin Why not just make the bobbin in three parts. Part off the two sides fron the bar and then turn the axle. Another option would be to make two bobbin sides with half an axle protruding. Then leave a threaded stud on the axle of one and a threaded recess on the other. Then just screw the two halves together with a little locktite. Several variations on these themes are also possible. Bruce Buchner ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:22:43 -0500 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: Re: How to make a bobbin Hi, Bruce. That may be what I have to do. But I'd like to know how to make the bobbin in one piece just because I feel this operation will come up again sometime. It's a learning kind of thing. Here's a similar situation that would require the same sort of machining: How would one make a crankshaft out of a single piece of material? Someday I would like to try it, but I haven't a clue as to how to go about it. Tom ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:27:30 -0500 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: Re: How to make a bobbin I've never seen plastic bobbins. They make work just fine. I'll check around. I'm using the standard 1/4" HSS tools that come with the machine (tho, the originals have long since passed on.) You know, I wonder if a graving tool might work. I might be able to do it by hand. Tom ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:32:53 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: How to make a bobbin If I understand your problem correctly, you can use a grooving tool that takes carbide inserts. This is by no means the cheapest way to do this. The grooving inserts can be used, with light cuts, in a left- right manner to turn down the final diameter of the center section. You would first have to make a series of plunging cuts to remove the bulk of the materail and then for the last several thousandths slide the cutter axially. I use a 3/8" grooving tool holder (about $49 from J&L), and the TiN coated carbide inserts for a 1 mm square groove are about $12 apiece. Each insert has two cutting edges, and can cut to a depth of about 6 mm or 1/4". You claim to need 5/16" depth of cut, but might be able to get by with a little less. Another option is to grind your own grooving tool. you can make it wider than 1 mm and then slightly longer for your needs. I can easily cut a 1 mm groove 6 mm deep into 6/4 titanium alloy on my Sherline lathe. Dan. ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:53:04 -0500 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: How to make a bobbin Make two disks of the desired dimensions and then press them on to the ends of a shaft of the proper dimension (interference/press fit). Forrest ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:55:00 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: How to make a bobbin Tom: Your cut off tool can be used for this as well as crank shafts. First cut the right and left side of the bobbin. then make several cuts to remove the center as Dan mentioned. Cut the center a few thousands larger when removing the center material. The center can be cut to size by taking off one or two thousands at a time with the cut off tool by moving it right to left. I have done several crank shafts this way. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:05:18 -0700 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: How to make a bobbin Hi Tom: This is an operation that causes grief for many. It is not difficult at all, once you have figured it out. First of all, the gentleman who responded with advice to put the tailstock center against the free end was right on!! That's "must have" step #1. Next, use your parting blade, (clamped up short so that you can just get to the depth you need without crashing the toolpost into the job) to poke into the job at steps JUST SLIGHTLY BIGGER THAN THE WIDTH OF YOUR BLADE. You want the blade to be supported by the metal of the workpiece on both sides. (keeps it from wandering sideways) You will now have a lump with a couple of flanges on each end, and a whole bunch of closely spaced slots that go within 0.005" of your target hub diameter. Use your parting blade again, to poke into the block and knock the skinny ribs down too. The blade won't wander if it is UNSUPPORTED at each side either. Now you're almost there. Pull out your parting blade and grind the end dead nuts square and smooth. Take a fine india stone, and hone a tiny corner break onto the extreme right and left hand corners of the tool. Make SURE it has the proper relief too!!! Shine a bright light on the carriage and put a bit of white paper under the job with the light shining down on it. Now when you remount the parting blade, you can easily see when you have it perfectly aligned with the long axis of the lathe, by pushing it up against a smooth and parallel part of the job, and looking at the light visible in the gap. You can discriminate 0.0001" this way (no that's not a misprint ..one ten thousandths of an inch) Now just kiss the unfinished diameter of the bobbin hub and traverse the full slot width. Finish your cuts in 0.001" increments and you will have a beautiful job. If you have side relief on the parting blade you can kiss the sides of the flanges too, but you can't hog off a lot of metal very well this way. Good luck with your job and let us know how it turns out. Cheers Marcus PS: It takes a lot longer to talk about than to do, so have at 'er with great gusto!!! ------- Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 21:23:53 -0000 From: "clibuse" Subject: Re: Thanks, and one more beginner question (first project) In sherline "oldisnew" wrote: > When you've done that for a little while and you feel like you have a > clue, what's a good simple project to start out with, to get some > idea about how you accomplish actual tasks with the machine? I've > seen some fairly simple kits from PM Research--something like that? > Can those be done with just a lathe? John: Oops, I may already have posted an incomplete answer, but in case not, here's a repeat... I'd recommend against starting with a kit that uses castings. If you mess one up, you're in trouble. They are also harder to hold. I'd make something from bar stock to get started. It's cheaper, and if you mess up you can just cut another piece of raw material and try again. There are a number of sources for plans listed at www.sherline.com/resource.htm under the heading "plans and projects you can build." There is also a page with sources for buying small quantities of bar stock either by mail or online. See www.sherline.com/online.htm. One of our customers did what Joe (Sherline's owner) considered a smart thing. For his first project he made five identical engines from bar stock. For each setup he made five parts instead of one to get more practice in the cutting department vs. the setup department. When he was done he had four extra engines which he gave as gifts to friends and family members. Since most of the time is spent in setup, it doesn't really take that much longer to make several of any given part, and you'll get a feel for the machine faster that way. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 00:07:57 -0000 From: "jeastwoodlm" Subject: Re: Trombone mouthpiece? In sherline..., "yaglejpner" wrote: > I saw this pretty looking trombone mouthpiece in the 'Photos' section. > I certainly would like to make one similar. > Do anybody have some drawings or advice? Thanks, Leif Glad you liked it. It was fun to make. Check out message 8147 for some details on why and how I made it. I'll check my original drawings and get some more dimensions for you, but it was basically just a matter of taking dimensions off of an existing mouthpiece and working from there. ------- Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:29:04 -0000 From: "clibuse" Subject: Re: 1st Time Steam Engine Ian, rather than start with a casting kit for your first steam engine project, I might suggest building one from bar stock. That way if you mess up a part, you won't have to order another casting. Rudy Kouhoupt has a video out where he makes a bar stock steam engine from start to finish using Sherline tools. The video includes a set of plans, a materials list and brief written summary of the steps. Watching him make each part, you can follow along on your own machine using the same setups. Any beginner can learn a lot from this video whether you want to build the steam engine or not. It is not a "slick" video with lots of fancy titles and camera transitions, just Rudy in his shop explaining what he is doing as he makes the cuts. It runs several hours on two VHS tapes. It's $60.00, but I can't recall anyone saying they didn't get their money's worth out of it. You can get it from Sherline dealers (P/N 5328) or see the ad for New Life Videos in Home Shop Machinist magazine. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:56:27 -0600 From: "Don Christensen" Subject: RE: Kouhoupt video Dave: You might be interested in some pics I took of my finished "Rudy" engine. I bought the video with my Sherline about 2 years ago. It took me a while to build but was a lot of fun and because it uses bar stock it was easy to just start over on one or two pieces I messed up. I watched the video a couple of times, once all the way through and again, section by section as I machined the individual pieces. Biggest reason it took me so long was the location of my Sherline. I got a lot of practice setting up and tearing down for a totally new setup as my stuff was at work and I got many requests for help on weird stuff and one-off's. http://www.wolsi.com/~donc/first.html Regards, Don ------- [NOTE TO FILE: The following message is out of date order but is a useful addition to a discussion of Rudy's steam engine video for beginners.] Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 08:20:00 -0700 From: "David" Subject: Re: Request information [sherline group] Roger's advice is generally good. But, as a newbie, you'll have to watch out for some traps in Rudy's excellent presentation--drilling holes in a plate, then drilling holes in another part and expecting them to line up concentrically is something that old pros can perhaps (and I stress perhaps) do, but the rest of us have to drill them simultaneously; and the faceplate that you must make to finish the flywheel may come as a surprise (I did it twice, gave up and made a mandrel). But Rudy's presentation is generally excellent and there is much to learn from it (even if, now and then, it's how not to do it). Like his carefully written articles for HSM (some of them now collected into three volumes, which no newbie should be without), the video is organized, written, photographed very well; the plans for the engine are up to his usual standard, and everything works at the end. I can think of no better way for a newbie to get his feet wet. Dave Wood ------- Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 19:26:14 -0700 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: knobs Hi Reid, I made some knobs like that: http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Projects/Inkle-Loom-Screws/index.html I made mine in two pieces so I didn't need to waste so much material (and it was easier). You'll need the knurling attachment: http://sherline.com/3004pg.htm There are also little plastic knobs that you can buy that fit onto the ends of a Socket Head Cap Screw (really cheap, but don't look anywhere near as nice). Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com/ ------- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:49:46 -0000 From: "Brian Chapman" Subject: Oblique truncated cone? I welcome advice about machining this shape, which has me puzzled. Imagine a railroad tank car. The diameter of the tank at the center of the car is 100 inches. It is 20 feet each way to the tank heads; the heads are 94 inches in diameter. The car's top slope from center to each end is 1-1/2 inches. The car's bottom slope from center to the each end is 4-1/2 inches. From my searching about on the Web and the local library, I believe this shape is defined as an oblique truncated cone (OTC). Is this correct? I have found the math formula for a right cone (symmetrical) but have found nothing about computing, let alone machining, an OTC. It seems a cone could be easily machined and the ends trimmed/faced at the appropriate angles to create the above tank car shape. However, this would result in a slight oval shape at the ends, will it not? Sure appreciate any help someone might wish to offer. Thanks much, Brian Chapman Cedar Rapids, Iowa ------- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:41:39 -0700 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Oblique truncated cone? Hi Brian, I don't know the math formula either, but it isn't too hard to figure out. If you stand your OTC on a flat surface and look at it from the end, you'll see a big circle at the base and a little circle at the end. If the little circle does not contain the perpendicular line drawn from the center of the big circle, then the cone is referred to as oblique. If the cone doesn't go to a point, but is sliced off, then the cone is truncated. So, the formula for a circle centered about a point (a, b) with radius r is (x - a)^2 + (y - b)^2 = r We then want a, b, and r to change linearly as a function of z. If the center of the big circle is at x1, y1, z1, and the center of the small circle is at x2, y2, z2 (and both circles are in XY plane), then the formula for the line connecting them is: x = x1 + (x2 - x1) * z / (z2 - z1) y = y1 + (y2 - y1) * z / (z2 - z1) Since this conincides with the center of the circles we can substitute a and b for x and y, and we get a similar equation for r: r = r1 + (r2 - r1) * z / (z2 - z1). If we plug our new formulas for a, b, and r into the original equation of a circle centered about a point, we now have the equation for your Oblique Truncated Cone. I did all of the above off the top of my head as I typed it in, so please forgive any errors. You're correct, that taking a normal cone and slicing it at an angle will give a non-circular cross section. It won't be elliptical either (slicing a cylinder at an angle would give you an ellipse), but more egg shaped. I can't think of a way of turning an OTC on a lathe, since a lathe can only give you regular cones (and a cylinder is just a special case of a regular cone). You could easily do this on a milling machine with a rotary table. The sides would be a little rough, but could probably be filed/sanded into shape. If you had a CNC machine you could automate this. I think the easiest way of contructing an OTC would be to do it with some type of sheet material (like brass). Make brass circles the size of the big and small end. Cut a piece of tubing (square or round) off at the right angle and solder it between the pieces (this is just an internal structural member so the the cross section is irrelevant. Wrap a piece of sheet brass around the whole thing, soldering it at the edges and trim. You now have an OTC. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com/ ------- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:49:49 -0400 From: "Kevin P. Martin" Subject: RE: Oblique truncated cone? This is indeed not the same as a (circular) cone cut at an oblique angle, which as you observed would have elliptical rather than circular ends, although the difference may be difficult to observe. If you just truncated a regular cone at an angle (arctan 1/160, or about 0.358 degrees), the ends would be out-of-round by a factor of the cosine of that angle (cos 0.358 is 0.99998, so your 100" end would be 100" on the major diameter and 99.998" on the minor diameter. Even if you were making this tanker full-size (I assume you are working on a scale model :-)), you would not worry about this error. Just in case you want the exact formula, however... Consider half your tank sitting on its large end on a table. That end is a 100" circle; the (truncated) top is another circle 94" in diameter, 120" above the tabletop. Your diameter reduces by 6" in 120" (a 40:1 taper), and the centres of the circles line on a line that slopes 1.5" in 120" (a 160:1 slope). If the cone were not truncated, it would reach an apex at a height of 4000", and the apex would be 25" offset from the centre of the base. I'm not sure what form of "formula" you are seeking. The equation defining a cone with the apex at the origin is x^2+y^2 = (Az)^2 where A is the radius taper. For your cone, it is the same formula except (say) the X values are also offset by a second slope factor: (x+Bz)^2 + y^2 = (Az)^2; in this particular case, A is 1/80 (the taper on the radius), B is 1/160, and z runs between 3880 and 4000. This means your part is quite a ways off the origin (both in z and x) so you might want to displace it a bit. Such a shape would be a pain to machine, but with a little more math it can easily be formed from sheet metal (it is, after all, a tank!). On the other hand if you are making the tank (both ends together) from one solid piece, I suggest you ignore the slight ellipticity and just taper-turn both ends on the lathe, then machine off the scrap (and the centre-drill marks) from both ends. Kevin Martin ------- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:42:16 -0700 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Oblique truncated cone? Hi Brian: This is an easy job for a CNC, but rather tedious to do any other way. If I was doing this, I would draft up my end profiles and create a loft between them. I'd then throw a toolpath on the top half, and mill it. I'd flip the block 180 deg. and mill the bottom half. But, if you don't have CNC or a CAD-CAM package capable of this, there is another way. It is an approximate method, and tedious in the extreme, but it does work, and was one of the standard ways moldmakers used to mill complex shapes of this nature. Turn your bar to the big diameter, but leave it 0.500" too long. Squeeze the bar in a grinding vise and set it up so it's sitting vertically on the machine table and can be center drilled at each end in the proper relationship to get the end circles in position. Set up the bar between centers on the lathe and turn the overlong ends down to the small diameter of the circles; then clear the ends to a smaller diameter until you've got just enough of the circle left to get a tiny indicator point onto it. Taper the first bit of the bar back up to the big diameter so you can get the clock point onto the reference diameter as close to the end of the finished shape as you can. Blue the bar and scribe a faint line at the exact center. Make a pair of centers that can be adjusted up and down, and are about the right height so the bar can be squeezed in the milling vise while suspended between centers. Get a height gage with the tiny pointed indicator in it. Now set up the bar between centers on the mill, fiddle the heights of the centers until you just touch at the scribe line and the end circle, squeeze the bar (aluminum jaws and the vise tied down with just one strap clamp after you've squeezed the bar!), and take your first milling pass until you just about touch the scribe line and the turned end stub. Turn the bar a bit and repeat the sequence ad nauseum!!!!! After MANY hours of patient farting about, your shape will emerge. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:48:14 -0400 From: "Thomas R. Bank" Subject: Re: Oblique truncated cone? From my experience, the problem with the answers that are being given to the original question in this thread (and the question itself) are that they are machining answers with a lot of complicated math and the need for CNC machines, whereas the question is a model railroading question with a simple solution. The problem is that the cone is off center, with different angles along the top and the bottom from the car end to middle end of the cone, like many steam locomotive boilers were made, and further that there is likely a need for rivet and/or seam detail on the model. The best answer is therefore to do the job the way the real railroads would do it, which is to lay the piece out on flat sheet metal or plastic, then roll it to shape and solder or glue the finished shape. The trick is then in the layout of the flat piece. Mel Thornburg, one of the old-time master model railroaders with many excellent model steam locomotives to his credit, wrote an article which appeared in the February 1952 Model Railroader magazine on the topic of Forming Tapered Boiler Sections. Brian, if you would send me your snail mail address I will send you a copy of Mr. Thornburg's article. I think you will find it almost easy to layout the required shape after reading how the real railroads did the job. Then it will be up to you to win a ribbon at the next NMRA show. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:28:27 -0000 From: "Rabidorn" Subject: Metal Project plans For all you metal working types out there, here is a web site that offers metal project plans. As well there is a place to submit plans for you to sell on this site. Metalprojects.no-ip.com ------- Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:33:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Completed Project! On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Don Feinberg wrote: > For "shameless self-promotion", I've put up a website displaying > a 4x5 field camera I've just finished building. > I couldn't have built it without the Taig mill! Thanks, Nick! > The site is at www.duckproductions.com > Don Feinberg donfx~xxcybernex.net Hot damn! Thanks for posting that site. Once upon a time I built a 4x5 monorail camera from a kit. Since then I picked up a Crown Graphic. I've been poking around at photo books (including the one from Lindsay), thinking about making a 4x5 field camera. What you built looks a lot like what I was thinking of! I'm a big fan of having the tilt axis in the middle of the lens board rather than at the base (like many many field cameras do). It was neat to see you'd done that. Motivation of the best kind! Tom ------- Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:49:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re: Completed Project! On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, Des Bromilow wrote: > While I'm quite impressed with the workmanship etc, I don't > understand the camera itself... Neither did I until I started doing large format photography. In case anyone's wondering if it's worthwhile, the answer is a resounding yes. > I'm interested to know why this camera is so special.. I do not > understand the value in being able to tilt the lense and film plates > as demonstrated on the pictures on your website. I can see value in > large format film, but I do not understand why the ability to tilt the > lense and film planes is so important... Could someone please explain > the merits of this to me? I realize I've been on vacation for a week, and this may be a dead subject already. But I'd be happy to explain nevertheless. If this has already been hashed out, feel free to skip this. In photography, you've essentially got three planes all of which work in conjunction with each other, and behave in a very regular, predictable way. The planes are: 1 - The film plane 2 - The lens plane (a plane perpendicular to the axis of the lens) 3 - The focus plane (a plane in front of the camera that will appear in focus on the film plane) The relationship between the three planes is that in all but one case they intersect on the same line. The exception is when the film plane and the lens plane are parallel to each other (as they are in a 35mm camera.) In that case the focus plane will always be parallel to the film plane. This is essentially a degenerate case. For example, if you are taking a picture of a field of flowers, you can get the entire field of flowers in sharp focus by keeping your film plane upright and by tilting the lens plane such that the lens plane intersects the film plane where the film plane intersects the field of flowers. Once you've focused on the flowers, ALL the flowers will be in tack-sharp focus. For someone who's used to doing 35mm photography, you're probably thinking, "Ah, but I can do the same thing by stopping down my lens!" It's not the same effect. Using lens tilt you can in fact make an entire field of flowers appear in tack sharp focus, from your feet out to infinity, with the lens wide open. This has a lot of benefit when you're taking pictures in spring in Texas when the wildflowers bloom and the wind gusts enough to drive a landscape photographer bonkers. I swear those flowers don't sit still. I realize this explanation won't make much sense. It's hard to describe without pictures. If this tickles your interest, my advice is to visit a professional camera store and ask to play with a 4x5 camera. Try a couple of different things ('cause these are wild to see in action): 1 - Open the shutter, set the iris wide open, and focus on something about four feet away. Now slowly stop down and watch your depth of field increase. (The first time I did this I was totally blown away. I love my 35mm gear, but a DOF preview button is not the same as just leaving the shutter open and dinking around with a big piece of ground glass.) 2 - Focus on the counter at the photography store, and try tilting the lens while it's wide open. At some point the entire counter will snap into focus. (This is especially fun if there's a tall display case nearby, since the part of the case nearest the counter will be in focus, but the top will be fuzzy.) These two exercises are what sold me on 4x5 photography. Shifts are a whole 'nuther subject. Those are why I absolutely fell in love with my 4x5 monorail for doing architectural photography. In addition to Philip Greenspun's site, also take a look at three books by Ansel Adams: "The Camera", "The Negative", and "The Print". The first book covers shifts and tilts better than anything else I've run across. > FWIW, I understand basic photography principles, and am reasonably > adept with a panorama camera, and SLR (35mm). Oh good. I hope I didn't screw up that explanation too much. Tom ------- Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:34:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re: Completed Project! On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Larry Richter wrote: > Wow. This explains something I've wondered about a long time. In the > late sixties I saw a show of of natural landscapes (which means messy, > wild, untouched by people -- mostly meadow lands with marsh, stream > amd forest, under dynamic change) from the late 1800's. The prints > were huge, but were reductions of the original plates. I haven't > remembered the name of the artist, but I remember the images. They > were so vivid and exact they verged on disturbing. The scenes seemed > to be actually present in their own world, and the detail seemed > limitless. I've wondered, and this helps explain why. It could well. At the turn of the century, enlarging prints was not really as widespread as it is today. A lot of prints were "contact prints", where you put the negative and the paper in contact with one another. This results in a particularly sharp, grain-free print. (And this is one of the reasons why a lot of the photographers of the day were using 8x10 or larger negatives.) When you're using a negative large enough to support contact printing, you're typically using a much larger lens as well, with a longer focal length. A "normal" lens on a 4x5 camera, for example, has a focal length around 150mm. When compared to a "normal" lens for a 35mm camera (of focal length around 40-50mm or so), you start to see the change in scale. This has another affect on how you do photography using a large format camera: When shooting with a 35mm, you're running a constant balance between depth of field (which requires smaller apertures), and diffraction effects (which show up at smaller apertures). As a result, most 35mm lenses tend to produce fuzzier pictures at smaller apertures (higher f-numbers) than at larger ones. By way of example, the 100mm lens I've got is sharpest around f/16 when focused at infinity. Stopping it down to f/22 will result in a fuzzier picture, albeit with more depth of field. But diffraction is a function of the physical size of the aperture, not the f-ratio. f/16 with a 100mm lens means an aperture of 6.25mm. f/16 with a 300mm lens (nearly the equivalent coverage on a 4x5 camera) means an aperture of 18.75mm. Even with the same f-ratio, the 4x5 negative suffers from less diffraction. Because of this, the photographers at the turn of the century had a lot of things going for them. They used large negatives and contact printed them (which bypasses the enlarger, resulting in a sharper print, and also means the film grain is tiny and may not be visible at all.) They could use smaller apertures without suffering from diffraction (f/64 and smaller were common around that time). And with the shifts and tilts available on the large format cameras, they could selectively change the focus plane to get exactly what they wanted in focus, and could selectively change the geometry of an object as it would appear on film. I'm still floored when I make contact prints from 4x5 negatives. Don't get me wrong. I love my 35mm and digital gear. But a good contact print from a carefully made large format negative is something to see. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:11:23 -0000 From: "Thomas " Subject: Easy way of making graduated handwheels? Here's another stupid newbie question. Everyone agrees on the usefulness of graduated handwheels, but I am looking for an easy way to make one, without spending a lot of money. Why couldn't one just print out a sticker with a ruler on it, or take a segment of one of those flexible sewing tape measures and affix that to the handwheel? Would this work? I figure something is better than nothing until my skill level and/or bank account level rises high enough to allow me a better solution ;) ------- Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:38:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Easy way of making graduated handwheels? Yep, that'd work fine. Gingery uses the ruler trick to graduate parts on his shaper. One advantage of printing your own is that you can customize the scale to the diameter of the particular handwheel. The only catch is you need to somehow protect the printed paper from getting gooed up from cutting fluids. As far as graduating one using a scribe, it's possible to do this provided you've got an index wheel on your headstock. Nick sells one of these (I've got one and love it), or you can make one yourself. Making one from scratch can be a trick in itself, and there are tons of ways to do this, with varying results in terms of accuracy. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:23:41 -0000 From: "mendoje1" Subject: Re: Easy way of making graduated handwheels? Perhaps another version to do this is to print out the graduated scale on label paper, then carefully measure its length (circumference), turn the diameter of the handwheel to match, then stick it on temporarily. Then use the scale to carefully locate and scribe each graduation into the wheel, using a fixture will lock the handwheel. A little laborious, but cheap! Jeff ------- Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:20:50 -0500 From: Bob Kelly Subject: Re: Easy way of making graduated handwheels? Thomas, Up front, let me say I KNOW this comes under the heading of cob-house engineering. But it works for me. Anytime I need a temporary graduated disk, I go to my trusty desktop publishing program. I multiply the diameter of the disk by 3.14159 and divide by the number of gradations. In the DTP program, I set the distance between lines at that number and create the a number of short lines equal to the no. of gradations plus one (51 for a standard handwheel.) I print that out and wrap it around the disk. If the first and last line don't overlap, I add or subtract 0.0001" or so and try again. Sometimes I even make every fifth (for example) line longer for easy reference. I have done this on my chuck for using it to scribe lines on a bar clamped in it. The nice thing is that it works with any number of gradations and you don't have to figure the no. of degrees. You can pick up helpful hints like this in any Masters program in CH-E! Bob Kelly ------- Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:45:41 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Watchmaking With The Taig I have a Taig Microlathe which I purchased some time ago, and I am now teaching myself the art of watchmaking. Does anyone have any suggestions of webpages or other references on watchmaking with the Taig? ------- Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:45:38 -0700 From: James Eckman Subject: Re: Watchmaking With The Taig Home Shop Machinist ran a series a few years back on setting up a Taig for watchmaking, it might be available in one of their annual books they put out. Most of the other stuff I'm aware of is for the Sherline or Toyo lathes, which are roughly the same size. W.R. Smith's books are quite good as well as some of the John Wilding books. Some of the Wilding project books are intended for small lathes. http://horology.magnet.fsu.edu/wrsmith.htm Jim Eckman ------- Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:50:15 -0000 From: "Bill Lindsey" Subject: Sherline Steam Engine Project Given the recurring requests for engine projects suitable for Sherline equipment, I came up with what I believe is a challenging but reasonable design even for less experienced machinists whose interest may be in the area of small stationary engines. Considerations included: No castings, square angles on milled parts, readily available materials (brass, aluminum, steel), separate components (cylinder, crosshead, pedestals, etc) to allow easier alignment for height and linear motion, and sized for benchtop work using the Sherline lathe and mill. I have posted pictures in the Photos section in a folder called Mill Engine. Still a little bit of finishing work to do, but the engine has been tested and runs very well on 5 PSI or less and was smooth down to about 100 RPM (hopefully even less with a little break in time). Plans will be drawn in AutoCadLT 2000 as soon as i round up all the scratch paper sketches. Basic Stats: Flywheel Dia - 2 inches Bore - .375" Stroke - .750" Overall Length - 7 inches (base dimension) Overall Width - 4 inches (base dimension) Height - 2.25 inches approx ------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:54:49 -0000 From: "Ted Walls" Subject: Re: Re: piston rings f/small ic engines Hi Edwin, When the piston rings are hardened they are "set" and will become somewhat oval. this makes measuring them very difficult. Personally I have only made half a dozen and had a great deal of difficulty with those. I found the best way to fit them was with three strips of 5 thou brass shim placed along the piston and then slide the rings down the shim. Keep one piece of shim under the break in the ring and be very very gentle or the ring will snap for sure. A good book with a section on making the rings is "Building Mastiff" ISBN 0852424299. Sorry I can't say if its still in print or not mines dated 1975. Hope this helps. ------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:57:45 -0800 From: "Scott M. Bolton" Subject: Stirling Plans I've got the lathe and mill set up and have reduced numerous perfectly fine pieces of metal to mere shavings. Now I'm ready to put purpose to this activity. On page 5 of Joe Martin's Tabletop Machining is a photo of the 5 Stirling hot air engines that Tim Schroeder built. Can anyone point me toward a source for the plans? Thanks for your help. Scott Bolton Eugene, OR ------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 20:00:29 -0500 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: Stirling Plans Plans, plans, and more plans. http://www.jerry-howell.com/default.htm#a2 HTH, Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:18:00 -0800 From: "Orrin B. Iseminger" Subject: Re: Stirling Plans I'm quite certain it is the same Stirling engine featured in Rudy Kouhoupt's how-to-build-a-Stirling instructional video. It comes complete with well drawn plans. Everything that Rudy does is done well. I have the video and feel that it is worthwhile for the beginner. I don't consider myself a raw beginner, but I still feel the video was worth the expense. There are some glitches in the videography, but they are not Rudy's fault. If you're not bugged by this minor fault, you'd probably enjoy it. It's advertised in all the Village Press periodicals, HSM, etc. Orrin ------- Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 15:06:43 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Re: cannon plans Here's an updated copy of a post I just made to a similar request for info over on RCM: A good starting point is "Round Shot and Rammers" by Harold L Peterson ISBN 0-517-11948X available from South Bend Replicas and at SOME National Park bookstores. This book covers the range from early colonial period through the War Between The States. Antique Ordnance Publishers, 3611 Old Farm Lane, Box 610434, Port Huron, Michigan 48060 is a real good outfit to get familiar with. They publish dimensioned drawings of mostly War Between the States artillery. Publication #12 "Artillery for the Land Service of the United States 1849 - 1865" has drawings of carriages and barrels as well as limber chests and ancillary materiel. Guns(smooth bore) and Rifles (cannon with rifling) are covered. Publication #25 covers the 12 PDR Mountain Howitzer and Pack Carriage. #48 is the 1861 8 inch Siege Mortar. They have lots more, I just happen to have these 3 as I'm the Ordnance Sgt. with an re-enactment unit and one of the suttlers had these 3 folios at the Cedar Creek reenactment in October. "Cannons - An Introduction to Civil War Artillery" by Dean S Thomas ISBN 0-939631-03-2 is a fairly good introduction to artillery in general, not much in the way of detailed drawings of artillery, but gives a good overview of manufacture of barrels, gun crew organization and drill, and lots of general information about projectile manufacture and types by artillery piece. It does have pretty good line drawings of carriages, limber chests, and the like. Jerry Howell offers plans for a Naval cannon. I haven't seen the plans, but Jerry is bringing a set to Cabin Fever for me. If these plans are even close to the quality of his engine plans they should be superb. Dixie Gun Works has quite a good assortment of books on artillery, they are at: http://www.dixiegunworks.com Osprey publishing has two volumes on light and heavy artillery for the mid 1800's as well. Again, a bit skimpy on dimensions, but good sources of supporting information. Hopefully this is of some help, Stan ------- Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:46:49 +1100 From: "Charlie Lear" Subject: Re: Small (1/16") Hex driver stock needed On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, "Paul Fitch" wrote: >where on the web I can find the proper "tool quality" hex stock I >will need for my planned driver set? Not in any reasonable (eg small) quantity. Me, I'd buy either a set or just the sizes you need (Bondhus is a name that springs to mind) and slice the length you need off the long end with a Dremel cutoff wheel. That way you get your good quality hex stock, and you've got a good set of slightly shorter Allen keys. Cheers Charlie Charlie Lear, Melbourne, Australia clearx~xxsteammachine.com Hutt Valley Model Engineer Soc. http://steammachine.com/hvmes Eastern Bays Little Blue Penguin Foundation: same site /penguins ------- Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:42:49 +0000 From: Brian Squibb Subject: Hex head [ATLAS GROUP] My first nut to cut will be a stainless 22mm hex, blind and domed, flat head. It seems the nearest stock size is 1 inch (25.4mm) so I will have to machine down each nut. Now this is a widely used size and have been asked to produce 10 for a motorcycle accessory shop (first order). The thread I will tap (only about 1/2 inch) but I need good repeatability so have made a form tool for the radius. Have yet to work out an easy way to make the hex's. This may lead to a regular order (small volume) which will give me some cash, so I am prepared to put time into making up a one off tool. The first batch I am think of doing the hex in the vertical slide, using a slot mill to shave the vertical flats. The width will be measured using the cross slide, 11mm each side of centre using the calibration on the wheel. I will keep you posted on how that goes. The motorcycle accessory market is ideal for small machinist - the products are small, the volumes are low, the investment is low (just the lathe an normal tools). People are prepared to make their motorcycles unique or as they want them. The US market seems to be particularly so - look at all those Harley's out there - not one as it left the factory. Turn up with a non mass produced product and the queue will form. I don't intend to make this a living, but it may enable me to retire early - which can't be a bad thing:)) Brian ------- Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:07:15 -0600 From: Rodent Subject: Cuttting Hex Heads [ATLAS GROUP] I posted a few photos of a motorcycle tool we made to the misc. photos folder. This is an example of what can be done with a mill and rotary table. It could also be done on a lathe provided you could index the part accurately. The hex fits 1 7/8" wrench and the tool is used to remove a slotted lock-ring on a Honda rear wheel assembly. ------- Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 05:24:04 -0500 From: "Cindy/Wayne" Subject: Re: Cuttting Hex Heads Rodent, Nice job on the Honda tool, where is this used? I too make parts and tools for my vintage motorcycles. I just finished doing a top end on a Honda Z-50 , and found that my valve spring compressor was a little too large to fit inside the recess to get the keepers in and out . A few minutes on my Atlas 10" and I had a new ,smaller diameter ,recessed, holder that will do the smaller valves, and still fit on the original tool. I'll see if I can post a couple of pics of it on the site, I'll let all know when I do. Wayne(rice)Burner In S. NH where it hasn't gone above freezing in about month. Lots of ice damage to peoples roofs.About 18" of snow. Great weather to stay inside and make motorcycle stuff on my A/C lathe. ------- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:45:11 -0000 From: "ptkeillor3 " Subject: First Shaper Project I posted some pictures of my first shaper project, a carriage stop for my lathe, which was made on my 8" Logan. I made a block to fit the lathe ways, with a counterbored hole for a 1/4"x20 tpi clamp bolt, a clamp block with dowel alignment hole, and 3/8" hole with setscrew/brass plug to take either a micrometer head or dial indicator. The photos are: http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/CarrStopMic.jpg carriage stop with micrometer head http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/CarrStopDial.jpg ditto with cheapo dial indicator http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/CarrStopDis.jpg carriage stop disassembled http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/CarrStopAssemb.jpg carriage stop assembled One problem with the design is that I can't operate the clamp bolt with the stop under the headstock, which might be handy for close work in a collet. Didn't notice until I had it finished. I may make a similar design with a hinged clamp block actuated by a horizontal setscrew or bolt. Only thing left on this one is to bore/face a recess so the micrometer head mounts flush with the front face. That'll have to wait for a faceplate. Pete Keillor ------- Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:36:14 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Ring Stock [SHERLINE GROUP] I'm looking for some stock to make an engraved thumb ring for my wife. I already made the 'prototype' from brass and she loved it but it turned her thumb a bit black. Now I want to move on to 10 or 14K gold. I'm looking for a pipe cut 6mm band (maybe a couple in case I screw up one). You wouldn't believe the cost considering how simple is for them to make. Picture a piece of copper pipe and a hacksaw finished by some sanding and polishing. Not much into it but it would appear that just because they are generally used as wedding bands we have to add the token 400% mark up as you certainly wouldn't want to admit your token of everlasting love only cost $35. Does anyone know where I can get blank rings or perhaps the pipe they cut into them. I'm also interested in other relatively inexpensive metals I may not be aware of. Thanks, Mark P.S. To the gentleman on the group who makes the engraved/enlayed either titanium or platinum rings (I forget which): My issues with the costs of the plain, unsculptured bands are in no way directed towards you or you work. I have visited your site and am awed by the artistic designs, craftsmanship, and obvious pride that goes into you products. Having gone through the processes required to engrave circular objects with any design I can appreciate your work. These are obviously not simply bands you parted from a piece of stock. ------- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:52:21 -0500 From: "Daniel J. Statman" Subject: Re: Ring Stock Mark, I in no way took offense at your comments, I found them quite amusing and accurate. I can supply you with ring blanks in whatever material you would like. I can purchase them from wholesale jewelry outlets that I have contacts with. Not really sure about straight pipe-style rings, but I will have a look. Let me know the ring size and width and the material that you are interested in. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com P.S. Thanks for the compliments on my designs. ------- Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:17:23 -0000 From: "Glen Reeser " Subject: Re: Ring Stock Hi Mark, I do some wax turning and investment casting for jewelry and fountain pen barrels and caps. Rio Grande in Albuquerque, NM is a good source of all kinds of metal casting products, tools, wax, lapidary equipment and even Sherline products. They also sell "fabricated" metals- sheets, wire, tubes, etc. Log on to www.riogrande.com and order their catalogs (tools and equipment, jems and findings, display and packaging). Don't let your wife see the jems and findings one when it comes, it could get expensive. I forgot to mention that if you are buying wax for machining, there are different color coded waxes. The green wax (also called file wax) is the hardest and best for turning on a lathe. A good jeweler in your area would be able to cast your wax for you. If not, contact me off list. No connection or financial interest in Rio Grande, just a repeat customer. Glen Reeser ------- Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:28:11 -0000 From: "Alan Smith" Subject: My First Engine Hi All, I am quite pleased with my engine made with the help of my Peatol Lathe. The Loco is an 0-6-0 freelance design built from scratch. It is gas fired and radio-controlled. It gives me a feeling of great satisfaction. Alan Smith -------- Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:16:05 -0000 From: "alenz2002 " Subject: Re: wire spoke wheels [SHERLINE GROUP] > I just joined the group, and I am hoping that one of you expert > machinist could help me ? > I am looking for info. on building small spoke wheels for a 1/18 > scale ferrari 500 TRC. they are borrani wheels and I have some good > pictures of them but I am hopeing someone out there has done this > before, and could offer me some help as to building a jig or whatever > I need to do this. Thanks, Ted Ted, this won't answer your question, but I've seen some small spoked wheels that were made by turning the hub and rim from a single piece of stock. One side had the hub and rim cut as complete as possible with the spoke part being cut deeper than the width of the finished wheel. Then the holes were drilled and the spokes installed. Then the wheel was parted off and the other side finished. I thought it was amazingly strong considering that the spokes were only pressed into place. Hope this helps, al -------- Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:31:48 -0000 From: "Graham Green " Subject: Re: wire spoke wheels Hi Ted, if you go to this link and LOOK thru ALL this site, you will find what you are looking for in the album on the Bentley car that this gentleman has produced. Please take your time and read all that is on offer and you will definately learn from the MASTER OF MODELMAKING, a Mr Gerald Wingrove. http://www.wincol.com/ Enjoy the visual experience. radish ------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:58:37 -0000 From: "parryj2002 " Subject: Re: wire spoke wheels Hi Ted, at some time in the future I will want to try this as well. I manufacture wire wheels for 1/8 scale model cars using Sherline equipment. Haven't worked in 1/18 scale but I do have some experience in 1/8 scale. I assemble each wheel using SS wire in .019 to .021 sizes with each spoke cut and formed to fit. A jig is used for one type of wheel (Jag) but not required for another type (Mercedes). Pics are at this website: www.precisionscalereplicas.com Are you planning to use aluminum or brass? Brass may be easier to use as the spoke holes would be about .010 and a mistake could be fixed with solder. But then you have the problem with chrome not covering or filling in holes... Will you be using a rotary table to drill the holes? As someone else mentioned, you could also check out Gerald Wingrove's site. He mainly builds in 1/15 scale and uses stainless wire and a jig. The Borrani wire wheel is a very attractive wheel and will look great when finished. Looking forward to see how you make out. Regards, John Parry ------- Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:07:52 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Web Page [SHERLINE GROUP] Hi Dave, If you're interested in flywheels, I've just posted plans to build the flywheel for a little oscillator engine, the "David" (for my 9 year old nephew David). It's in the list's photos, under KM6VV engine, David Engine Flywheel. Later I'll post a pix of the whole engine, and the complete plans, if anyone is interested. It is basically my dimensions and stock sizes inspired from a simple oscillator engine I saw posted. The one posted had funny sizes and dimensions, not all of which I could read (no author credited). I decided to make the little engine a test case for a flywheel construction I wanted to try. The flywheel is quite cute, and is fabricated from three pieces of brass. I had 2" dia by .5"+ brass rings, with 1.625" IDs, probably for bearings. I had .625 brass rod, and a scrap of .125" brass plate. The cutouts that form the "spokes" were done with my CNC Sherline mill. The ring and hub were turned on the lathe. The three parts were cleaned, and silver brazed together. [REMOVE LINEBREAKS IN FOLLOWING IN YOUR BROWSER] http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/vwp?.dir=/KM6VV+E ngine&.src=gr&.dnm=David+Engine+Flywheel.jpg&.view=t&.done=ht tp%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/lst%3f%26.dir=/KM6 VV%2bEngine%26.src=gr%26.view=t Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 16:07:28 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Flywheel Hi Dave, For silver brazing, flux is applied in the joint, and the work melts the silver brazing wire. Heat draws it in by capillary action, and if flux doesn't get all over the place, the result is a thin line where the cracks used to be. Too much heat, or too much silver, and then it can flow and "tin" surfaces you don't want. It can usually be fine sanded off. I can send you a .PDF or .CCD (Vector CAD/CAM) file if you wish. I use Irfran view, and I can see all the details, except the dashed lines and arcs. Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 16:31:53 -0800 From: Randy Gordon-Gilmore Subject: Re: Flywheel At 04:07 PM 3/3/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I use Irfran view, and I can see all the details, except the dashed >lines and arcs. Hi Alan, The problem is that, even though you as the uploader can see the picture in the same resolution you uploaded it, for the rest of us it is an unzoomable 400x240 pixels. Yahoo reports the filesize as 49kb, but the file as presented on the site is 10kb. They've shrunk it! Yahoo has made the photos section basically unworkable by doing this. I make a point to always upload pictures to the Files area, where they are unmolested by Yahoo. Best regards, Randy Randy Gordon-Gilmore http://www.prototrains.com ------- Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:05:34 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Flywheel Hi Randy, I notice a "full size" button on the Yahoo photos page. Does that help? I do notice also now the centerlines (as well as the dashed lines previously mentioned) are now solid. guess a .DXF would be better! I hadn't realized that they were shrinking the pix in the photo section! But I think it's just in the minimized (initial) view. I downloaded the "full size" (there is a place to click for full size), and it is 50K, as is the one I posted. Or are you saying the viewers (other then me) do not have access the full size? Maybe you have to order postcards. :<( At any rate, see if the 2nd one I posted in the files section is readable (KM6VV Engines). http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/files/KM6VV%20Engines/ Thanks for the comments guys, Best regards, Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:34:54 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Flywheel The "Full Size" button is only available to the owner of the photo :( Dave Hylands ------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:03:03 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Flywheel, Bar Stock Engine Hi to the list, I've just posted some full resolution .JPG files in the Files section, under "KM6VV Engines". Seems the pix no longer have sufficient resolution for our use. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/files/KM6VV%20Engines/ The flywheel5C pix is the fabricated flywheel, just out of the pickling bath. There is a full resolution drawing of the flywheel (mentioned last post). This is a present for my 9 year old nephew who expressed great interest in my bar stock engine! He's a loco fan, although I'll leave it up to his dad to build a loco for him! There are also two views of my recently completed (well, RUNNING, anyway) bar stock engine. it is 3/4" x 3/4" bore/stroke. No castings. What a joy to see it start up by it's self the first time I put air to it! I intend to make a more detailed flywheel for it as well, and paint the base. Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:51:46 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Just a question From: To: Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 5:40 AM Subject: [taigtools] Just a question > Anyone in this group has experince in glass engraving? I did a little for fun. I have a foredom flex shaft tool that I mounted horizontally. I chucked up a some small plated diamond points and directed a stream of water on the workpiece. You have to take light cuts and make sure there is no vibration. See our web pages http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:05:50 -0000 From: "Walter Anderson " Subject: Re: Just a question Rather than considering a mechanical system your might want to use a chemical etchant. The process is very simple. You mask out the areas of the glass that you don't want engraved (wax or some other masking material) then you apply a chemical to etch the glass. One source that I know of for the chemical is woodcraft. The link for the product is: www.woodcraft.com In the search box type "etching cream". The product runs about $15 for a 12oz bottle. ------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 02:07:56 -0000 From: "Roger Petrella " Subject: Glass Etching I have done glass etching sucessfully a couple of ways. The first way is using an acid paste with either masking or stencils. This is very easy to do and you can do large or small areas easily. You can get the product and more info at: http://www.armourproducts.com The second way I use is with an ultra high speed handpiece and diamond burrs. They are basically a high speed turbine like a dental drill and can use the same bits as well. The handpiece is running WAY faster than a Dremel tool so it is easily controlled and has virtually no vibration. You can literally write your name with one of these tools. They are made by several manufacturers. The one I use is: Powercrafter: http://www.twopaw.com/products/powercrafter/powercrafter.html There are several other brands on the market as well, put out by Paragraphics (parent company of powercrafter): http://www.paragraphics.net/engraver.htm SMC http://www.scmsysteminc.com Turbocarver http://www.turbocarver.com There may be others as well. A third method, which I have not tried, is by actually sandblasting the glass. Again, you must use a mask or stencil, and it is better for larger areas but fine detail can be done also. The process uses fine silicon carbide abrasive to do the etching with a miniature abrasive blaster similar to an airbrush. People use this a lot to etch ID numbers, graphics, etc. in automobile window glass. Both Paragraphics and SCM sell these systems, but I'm sure there are others. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO ------- Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:31:01 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Bar stock Steam Enginel I've just posted some full resolution .JPG files in the Sherline Files section, under "KM6VV Engines". On recommendation, they are posted under files to preserve their resolution (Yahoo reduces pix in the Photos section). http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/files/KM6VV%20Engines/ There are two views of my recently completed (well, RUNNING, anyway) bar stock engine. it is 3/4" x 3/4" bore/stroke. No castings. I've drawn my own plans for it, based on dimensions for the Stuart 10V engine. What a joy to see it start up by it's self the first time I put air to it! I intend to make a more detailed flywheel for it as well, and paint the base. The flywheel5C pix is the fabricated flywheel, just out of the pickling bath. This is flywheel is for an oscillating engine; a present for my 9 year old nephew who expressed great interest in my bar stock engine! He's a loco fan, although I'll leave it up to his dad to build a loco for him! If there is any interest in the oscillating engine, I have prepared drawings for it, and can post that as well. Cheers! Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 16:09:39 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Bar stock Steam Engine David Goodfellow wrote: > Looks great, Alan! Did you make the cap nuts, or buy them. They > really add a touch of class. Hi Dave, I made them from hex stock (it's WONDERFUL to have several sizes of stock on hand now). Yeah, that looked a little better then the over-sized 5-40 steel hex nuts I bought. I also made tiny 5-40 nuts for the connecting rod, and I've yet to make a new pin for the valve rod hinge, and a little screw with a point to follow the groove in the eccentric (it runs without it!). I guess to be truly a "model" engine, I need to make tiny studs and nuts for all the fastenings, but I LIKE the Allen head cap screws (and I finally got a good supply of them). I want to make a fancy flywheel for the engine, then it's on to a disassembly, and a through finishing and polishing for everything. I think I'll paint the base as well. Thanks for the kind comments. What's your latest project? Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:41:21 -0800 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: RE: Bar stock Steam Engine >> What's your latest project? .....Alan KM6VV I've been fussing around with stuff around the house that needs doing, and for the past 3 months I haven't really been working a project. The current project is an Elmer's double-acting oscillator engine with reverse lever, but I haven't been putting any time on it recently. So far I have the base, column, flywheel etc. done for 4 of them (ain't CNC grand?). And the cylinder blocks are done for all. I'm redrawing Elmer's plans in CAD, and building as I finish a drawing. Hope they'll turn out good enough for Xmas presents to my grand-nephews. I hope to get some time this weekend to work on them. (Here I am, on my 69th birthday, living alone with 3-day weekends and wondering if I'll be able to find time. Didn't know I could be so busy!) Dave ------- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:06:17 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Bar stock Steam Engine 3/7/2003 KM6VVx~xxarrl.net writes: >(Here I am, on my 69th birthday, living alone with 3-day weekends >and wondering if I'll be able to find time. Didn't know I could be so busy!) Sure, Dave. I know when I was working I looked forward to retirement so I could sleep late and get projects done. Been retired for over 10 years and still get up at 6:00 AM, but projects gather much faster than I can finish them. Have castings for one more locomotive, one 3/4 done, telescope parts to cast and machine and a shed full of model airplane stuff. That is when I find enough time away from church work, chamber of commerce and helping out at the library. I guess I can rest when they finally pat me on the face with a shovel. John in the high desert of California 12 inch Atlas Mini Mill Rusty file ------- Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 10:00:50 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Bar stock Steam Enginel Hi Bruce, I think I may have confused some. I posted plans and pix for the flywheel (fabricated) of the "David" engine, and a pair of pix for my bar stock engine as well. The David oscillating engine should be finished in a few days, and the plans likewise. The prints for bar stock engine with the slide valve are not ready yet. I am thinking about posting complete assembly step pix, as well as plans, but that will be a while. This engine requires a few jigs, boring bars, a considerable number of reamers, and a few taps and dies. I used both a lathe and mill to build it. Thanks for the kind words. Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 14:43:10 -0800 (PST) From: Pete Brown Subject: First pile of chips Finally got some time this weekend to work a little more on the HO-scale I2 decapod I'm building. The frame sides are the first things I've milled. I learned a lot while doing it, and likely would do it differently next time. That's the fun, though :-) http://www.irritatedvowel.com/Railroad/Model/Locomotives/ScratchBuiltI2.aspx (watch out for link-wrap. If it wraps on you, just go to my site www.irritatedVowel.com and go to Railroad-> Model Railroad-> Locomotives-> Scratch-Built I2) Here are a few photos of my workshop : http://www.irritatedvowel.com/Railroad/Model/Default.aspx Thanks for all the help and advice :-) Pete ------- Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 18:44:44 -0800 From: Keith Green Subject: Re: What happened to the fly reel plans? I posted the originals here [NO SPACES IN FOLLOWING ADDRESSES]: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/plansandblueprints/files/Everything%20El se/Miscellaneous%20Plans/MIFlyreel.pdf Suppose they got cross-posted and subsequently removed. Added a tackle box and rod rack plan the other day, if you're interested. They're here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Prints_and_Plans/files/Woodwo rking/PMAug54RodRAck.pdf and here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Prints_and_Plans/files/Woodwo rking/PMAug54TackleBox.pdf ------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:03:59 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: OT: Clockmaking WAS: Re: new member seeks accessories for an Atlas10-F John Weight wrote: > Hello Stan, > I read with interest your latest message, where you said you are making > various tools for clockmakers. Are you into clockmaking? or are you > making the tools for order??? I am making three different clocks at the > moment and enjoy making the tools as much as the movements. > Do you use any of John Wilding's or Bill Smith's designs??? > Regards, John Weight San Francisco Hi John; I'm really just getting started in the serious (more than clean, oil, adjust) repair end of things. John Wildings 8 day clock is in process, as is Conovers American Clock Movement. Colin Thornes Franklin one hand clock will be next. I'm restoring an Ingraham mantle clock and an old weight driven Pierce mantle clock that's been in the family since around 1815 also. I flipped when I saw the price for bushing fixtures, spring winders, and some of the other tools (gear cutters particularly), so I'm making most of the tools myself for the clock work. I'm prowling eBay for staking sets, jewel presses, and the like for the watch work. I have some of the HSM issues with articles from Bill Smith, and am borrowing some of his books from the NAWCC library. There is a yahoo horology group if you're interested, we're probably rather OT for this group. At least we're doing metalwork, and many of the tool parts can be made using an Atlas, so I hope Jon will forgive the drift! Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:57:01 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Steam engine plans wanted I seen to recall someone wanting plans for a steam engine a while back. Here is a nice two cylinder, 'D' slide valve engine. Very nice prints! [NO BREAK IN ADDRESS WHEN YOU COPY IT TO YOUR BROWSER] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STEAMENGINEPRI NTS/files/cool%20new%20plans/COOL%20SLIDE%20VALVE%20TWIN/ Look in yahoo group Steam engine prints, files, "cool new plans". Hope you don't mind a little French! enjoy, Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:09:57 -0000 From: "dreilanderecht" Subject: Re: Pictures of Peoples Work Seems to be a distinct shortage of volunteers around here! Surely we don't just buy these things to hold down the workshop floor? I have some photos of my machines doing various jobs, so I will try to make a bit of time to scan a few. Maybe at the weekend. At least, I have photos of the Ammco and the Alba 1A at work, I haven't taken any of the Alba 4S and I am not sure that I want to show the world the dreadful state of the paint at the moment. I'm also a bit afraid of tackling the job of painting a machine this size! Of course, few projects are carried out using only the shaper, there tends to be a bit of lathe work as well, and even some milling since I have gone so far astray as to allow a mill/drill machine into my workshop. My main project at the moment is a compound steam angine intended for a launch. The stroke is 3 inches and the bores are three and five inches. The shapers are responsible for most of the flat surfaces such as the bedplate with its bearing housings, and the columns with the crosshead slides. This is the older style of crosshead, the style popular on later engines and especially in America with a bored crosshead is a superior job. regards John ------- Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:29:11 -0800 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: RE: Simple steam eng. to be built on lathe From: paul5910 [mailto:paul5910x~xxyahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:10 PM To: sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com Subject: [sherline] Simple steam eng. to be built on lathe >>>I have had my Sherline 4400C package for over a year now and love it. I would now like to build a simple steam engine. Does anyone know of any simple designs designed to be built with only the lathe? I do complement the lathe with a drill press, bench grinder, chop saw, and buffer. Thanks.. Paul Fitch <<< I have an engine, "Brassy Babe," that can be done on a lathe if you make the frame and base as separate pieces. Plans are at -- http://good-fellow.net/plans.pdf Dave Goodfellow Lancaster, CA http://www.davegoodfellow.com/ ------- Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 22:48:10 -0000 From: "Bill McKillip" Subject: Re: Simple steam eng. to be built on lathe Hi Paul: I have made three versions of the BettZee engine on the McCabe's Runners site at http://npmccabe.tripod.com/bettzee.htm. I used only the lathe, except for drilling the holes, which could easily be done by hand drill. The BettZee is a variation of the Oscillating Engine also shown on the same site. Have fun. Bill ------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:26:15 -0500 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: Where to get plans for STIRLING on Page 5 of "Table Top Machining"? >Hi, Sherliners: >Does anyone know where I can buy the plans for that Stirling Engine shown >on page 5 of Joe Martin's book "Table Top Machining"? >I searched through this book and through the Sherline website, but did not >find a note about that. Alex Hi Alex, Check out www.Jerry-Howell.com . You'll find some amazing engines there plus plans and parts. I made a couple of his "Miser" engines for Christmas presents last year. The folks are still amazed by them. So am I. Great design. Easy to make, reliable, inexpensive. Check it out. Tom Nance ------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:13:48 +1200 From: "Richard T. Perry" Subject: Re: Where to get plans for STIRLING on Page 5 of "Table Top Machining"? Alex - They're available at: http://www.bay-com.com/browse.cfm?prodID=20 along with a video tape set by Rudy Kouhoupt. I have the videos, but haven't yet gotten around to the project - Rudy doesn't use Sherline equipment for this engine (he does for the other one that he sells), and there are several things that you can't do the way shown (for instance, there's a setup with an off-center plate that the Sherline lathe can't handle.) It will take a little improvising, but it should be doable. Oh, and it also involves some silver solder work, so it's a good introduction to that too, if you haven't done any of that before. Regards, Richard T. Perry ------- Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:54:58 -0400 From: Alex Barrie Subject: very small hacksaw type blades [SHERLINE GROUP] I am looking for a source of very tiny blades to be used in a model band saw. The dimensions are as follows .004 thick, .08 wide and at least 12 inches long, now i know this is a long shot that there is a place that sells this stuff, but can any of you help me out? Alex ------- Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 20:50:04 -0400 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: very small hacksaw type blades Rio Grande supplies saw blades for jewelers. They have a website www.riogrande.com, but you have to get a catalog to order. They will charge you for the catalog and then give you a gift certificate towards the purchase of something. The blades are in the "tools and equipment" catalog on pages 166-169. The smallest size is 8/0 and has a thickness of 0.0063" with 89 teeth per inch. I have never seen a blade 0.004" thick. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 02:19:44 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: very small hacksaw type blades Alex: I don`t think you are going to find what you are looking for. If I understand this you are building a model band saw with a upper wheel and a lower wheel. If so my neighbor built a 1/12th scale band saw about three years ago and we ran into the same problem. For the blade I trimmed off a piece of .002"or.003" stainless shim stock about half again as wide as needed. I then silver soldered it together with about a .030" over lap. Next it was put in a machine vice and the seam was pressed the same thickness as the rest of the material. this did not effect the strength of the joint. It was then mounted on a tight fit wheel and the front and back was machined to the proper width. In your case that would be about 3.8". From that point the teeth were cut as you would cut teeth in a gear with a Dovetail cutter. It looks great and runs nice on the wheels. Of course it won`t cut steel but cuts wood and fingers like crazy. Hope this helps Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 17:16:14 EDT From: wa9gobx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: tuba mouthpiece Hello, my name is Dan, a french horn player for 44 years. I got into metal lathes to make mouth pieces for myself. What I do is to work in from both sides. I start with a pilot hole through it then rough out the horn end, its outside taper being the last operation. Then a trick I came up with is to have a middle section that is straight so it locks in the lathe chuck easy. Then I do the rim and leave some extra metal to fine tune the rim with.The back bore is the hardest. I use bigger and bigger drills going in deeper and deeper so at first the back bore is staggered in small steps; then after the cup is done I go back to the back bore and smooth out the 'steppes on it with a small file or scraper [hand held] while the lathe is slowly turning. I use big drills to bore out the cup area and also use a hand scraper and a Dremel grinder [hand held] while the work is turning to fine tune the cup. The second and third try will probably be a lot better than your first try. For the horn end taper, I just kind of use a hand file while the thing is turning and [test the fit a whole bunch of times till it's right]. Makes you not feel so bad when you shell out all that money to Bach Or Conn Holton etc good luck Dan ------- Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:55:50 -0700 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: Beam Steam Engine I'm presently building a beam engine, patterned (sort of) on Ed Warren's Peggy. Peggy is too large for my equipment, so I'm building it half-size. There are a lot of design changes, as the smaller size precludes some of Ed's part designs, or allows a simpler part. I'm doing a running commentary on its progress, with pictures, at -- http://good-fellow.net/beamer.html I'm using CNC as much as possible, not because it's necessary or easier, but because I'm trying to learn how. I'm using a Taig CNC mill with Vector 9.3. There are no parts in this engine that require CNC. In fact, at this stage of my learning curve, manual milling would be a lot easier. When the project's finished, cleaned up and painted, I'll post plans. Chow! (K-9 version of Italian) Dave Goodfellow Lancaster, CA http://www.davegoodfellow.com/ ------- Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:14:45 -0000 From: "John Shadle" Subject: New clock finished. [POSTED TO TAIGTOOLS GROUP] I've just finished my newest clock building project, a torsion pendulum clock with a glass disk pendulum. Most of the lathe work was done with my Taig. The gears were cut on an Enco gearhead mill/drill. If you want a peek: http://onlineclockbuilding.com/gallery/11.html There is a remontoire because there are enough rough spots in gear drives -- even when weight powered -- to make it beneficial. Lots of remontoires are clever, but useless. This may be one of them -- I won't know until I've had time to get it settled and regulated. The pendulum glass is a clock bezel glass, but I did drill the center hole on my Taig. The glass was held in a recess in a wooden disk screwed to the faceplate. The peripheral holes were drilled on a Sherline rotary table -- one of my favorite tools. I also trued the glass round on the Taig. All with diamond drills (cheap ones from Harbor Freight) and an EZ-lap diamond hone. Yep, broke a few before I got one right. John ------- Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:13:36 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Mill Cutter Sharpen [SHERLINE GROUP] Alan: If you are going to do a lot of grinding I would suggest purchasing grinding equipment. If you contact local used machine tool dealers you can sometimes get this type of equipment very reasonable. I generally encourage people to build models from bar stock. It has been my experience that the closer you build something to scale the closer it will run and sound like the original. In this case we don`t know what true scale is, so I would keep the operating parts as true to known scale as possible. I don`t see any detail in the pictures that would need to be left out in 5/8" scale. If you get use to figuring out how to include detail it will get easier and easier. I generally build everything in steel because I can add detail by silver soldering whatever I need wherever I need it. You mentioned the beam. I suspect a lot of people may look at that beam and see a one piece pain in the butt thing to machine. At that point they may compromise to whatever they feel they are able to do. This took a few years to figure out but when I look at that beam I see eight very simple pieces silver soldered together with out any loss in detail. Once sand or bead blasted it will even look like a casting. If you take the time to detail your model you will never regret it not to mention the skills you will gain. Good Luck Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 01:52:31 -0000 From: "klickcue" Subject: Re: MY FIRST METAL PART! --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "woodknack" wrote: > Hey guys I just wanted to share a couple of pictures on the first > aluminum part my Taig cnc mill has cut out. It is a pare of pliers. > Cut out of 5456 aluminum. It was cut at 2 passes of .125 each out of > 1/4 aluminum. I did not make the gcode or I would have cut it at a > faster rate and more passes at a lower depth! This was cut at 2 IPM. > I didnt dare go any faster! Its posted on the end of my web page. > Check it out. The blue coating on the handles is a rubber handle coating.. > http://users.adelphia.net/~wjdupont/my_taig_cnc_mill.htm Nice pliers. What I liked on your web site was your wooden gears. If you really get into cutting wood, you might take a look at this site http://www.precisecut.com/default.asp. This is the type of bit that I use to cut my pool cues. There is also some good information for different woods and plastics plus speeds and feeds for the material. Metal cutting bits don't work all that well for wood. Chris Klindt ------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 07:16:06 -0700 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Re: Any Blueprint/Engine plan to build for beginner ? website ? You may want to check out the following Yahoo groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines1/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines2/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines3/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines4/ Especially the files areas. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 22:35:08 -0000 From: "jeastwoodlm" Subject: Re: Any Blueprint/Engine plan to build for beginner ? website ? Search on Ed Warren or jeastwood in the archives and you may find more info. Here's an excerpt from a previous post: After I built two wobblers I too was ready for something a little more advanced. Allow me to recommend Ed Warren's books: below is an excerpt from a message I sent a while back (search for Ed Warren in this group's archives...) "I'll continue my "boosterism" of Ed Warren's plans, described in two volumes titled "Home Made Steam Engines", available from Camelback Press (go to www.4w.com/modeltec/ for one place to order them; Powells Technical bookstore in Portland Oregon also has them in stock.)" Volume 2 of Home Made Steam Engines has several nice engines that I'd call intermediate for required skill/experience level. I just finished his "Miss Too" engine a few weeks back; it has valve gear, unlike a wobbler, and was fun to make and a good way to develop my machining skills. It's of a size that's easy to to make on Sherline equipment. He has several others in that volume that look good too. You may want to look at Volume 1 for the simpler designs. ------- Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 22:00:22 -0400 From: Jim Ash Subject: Ed's Warren's Millie / was Any Blueprint/Engine... One of the engines from Ed Warren's book, called Millie, was written up in Modeltec magazine a few years back (98?). It's a basic single-acting wobbler. I was in a 50 contact-hour introductory machine shop class at the time and the project choices supplied by the instructor weren't as exciting, so I talked him into letting me build it for my project. I sat down with the drawings, scaled them up 2x, and discovered the hole in the cylinder and the holes in the block didn't line up very well. I re-calculated the hole positions and built it my way. I don't know if the mis-alignment was intentional, to cause the engine to run in a kind-of partial cut-off mode, or it was just an oversight. I made a weak attempt to contact Ed to find out, without success. My modified engine runs really well (I actually made two, and gave the better one to my father). The other students in the class were enamored with my engine by the end of the semester. They were all making pen holders and trinkets; mine was the only one with moving parts. Running it was a real thrill for everybody. The instructor asked me for my plans at the end of the semester to add to his collection of choices. My points are: #1 You should understand whatever you plan to build in case there are mistakes in the design. This hobby isn't exempt from human error. Last week, I just found an error in a set of plans for another engine I'm about to start building. It happens. #2. Don't be afraid to either 'fix' a design error you find, or modify the design purely to suit your own purposes or whims. A good part of the satisfaction of this hobby is the never-ending education that comes with it, no matter what level you've achieved, and experimentation is a good part of that. Such is the spice of life. Jim Ash ------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:18:58 -0000 From: "tnance0913" Subject: Mixing Metals and electrolysis [SHERLINE GROUP] I have noticed that plans for many small steam engines call for many of the parts to be fashioned from brass and many other parts to be made from steel. I think the reasoning of which type of metal is to be used where is mostly based on functionality and aesthetics. Where parts move against one another, I know it's nice to have the metals dissimilar to mitigate galling and reduce friction. Looks plays a role in chosing the metals also. An engine made entirely from steel or made entirely from brass would not look near as pleasing as an engine whose parts are made from a combination of steel and brass. On the other hand, I also know that putting a part from the ferrous class of metals in contact with a part from the cuprous class of metals begins the process of electrolysis and oxidation is greatly increased. So my question is how do these little engine fare over a long period of time? Does the engine require constant attention to remove rust scale, or can you just soak it down in WD-40 and put it on a shelf and forget about it? In short, is there a problem with electrolysis over an extended amount of time? Thanks, Tom Nance Corpus Christi, TX ------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:14:52 -0700 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: RE: Mixing Metals and electrolysis My steam engines (brass/aluminum/steel combinations) run from six months to four years old. No scale that I can see, though there's a bit of discoloration in some brass parts. But I get the same brass discoloration in the scrap box. Dave Goodfellow Lancaster, CA http://www.davegoodfellow.com/ ------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:53:46 -0700 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Mixing Metals and electrolysis Ti Tom, I hadn't heard of any electrolysis problems, and I don't see any effects on my steam engines. Probably enough oil to prevent it. I often choose materials based on how hard it is to get. A brass cylinder might work better for a piston, but I have ample supplies of aluminum (cheaper too). Steel or iron cylinder liners can be used. Shafts need to be steel, as a general rule. 10L14 steel rod is available, good for some of the parts. Bronze is desirable for bearings, but if I can only readily find brass, I'll use it! After all, if it ever wears out, I can make a new part! Alan KM6VV SherlineCNC ------- Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:32:16 EDT From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Mixing Metals and electrolysis In my experience with locomotives and small steam engines where I have used cast iron, bronze, brass and various steels for components they don't seem to suffer from electrolytic corrosion. After a few times of running them they seem to retain enough oil (Not WD-40) to protect parts. My Virginia with stainless piston rods, aluminum pistons, bronze clyinders and steel valve components lay on my garage floor for several years and when bringing her back to life I just gave the copper boiler a hydrostatic test, oiled everything again and she ran just as well as when new. The only thing to avoid is not to use brass (zinc/copper) as a bushing or permanent part silver soldered or tapped into a copper boiler. There is a tendancy to "de-zincify" the brass so use bronze (tin/copper) for screws and bushings in contact with copper boilers. Once you run your steam engines under steam they seem to seep oil for the next century at least. John LBSC Virginia LBSC Tich 200 some feet of 3.5 inch ground level track ------- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:41:24 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: It's finally done!!! As my web page says, "Well, after nine months its finally done." I designed and made my own Stirling. It can't be viewed at my web site http://www.geocities.com/mbstingray/metalworkpage.html Ok, I suppose it really isn't my design as I borrowed the principle from Mr. Stirling and used the same throws and volumes as the one I made from Mr. Howell's plans. But I assure you, it is different. My plan was to get as much asthetics as I could. Hopefully that explains the heavy use of black (anodized aluminum) and gold (brass) in the design. It came at a cost though. Due to the high rotating mass it barely runs with alot of heat on one side and ice on the other. I knew this would be a problem and accepted it to get the look I wanted. Next I'm off to steam so I'm not hampered so by the weight. And yes, that's right. I stopped counting pieces at 230 and that is only counting the miniature u-joints as one piece although they are made up of about 7 or 8 individual pieces and not counting ball bearings at all (there is probably about 80 of them). Mark A. Brown ------- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:54:24 -0700 From: "Brown, Mark A (SPO)" Subject: RE: New Web Site with pictures of recent project I've gotten a few questions off line about the Stirling I just finished and some of the techniques used to make it so I figured I would pass on some of the information I have learned to the group. First, that is probably my last Stirling. Although I love the concept and it simplicity with no intake or exhaust the Stirling has very little power. This explains why I had never heard of it until I started milling. Not sure if I mentioned it on my web site but the rotating mass of my design(mostly the flywheel) has so much mass (mostly the brass) it takes a lot of heat underneath and ice on the top to get it to run and it is very sluggish then. I knew this would be a problem when I started but wasn't sure how much of a problem. If you are seriously interested in Stirling there is a Yahoo group dedicated to it but be forewarned, this is a very serious group discussing Stirling topics on a professional engineering level. This is not keyed to the hobbyist (me). If you still want to build a Stirling check out Jerry Howell's website. There is a link to it on my metalworking page under the first Stirling I made. It was from his plans. He offers many different plans and they are of excellent quality. I haven't seen any better commercial hobbyist plans. In regards to my own design. I used the free ProDesktop application (link on my website) to draw/model it up. The program is awesome, and free. This is a commercial CAD/modeling program. I am in no way affiliated with them. I just still can't believe they offer this for free. It allowed me to build it on the computer and check tolerances prior to building it for real. On the actual model when the assembly is in motion and the larger cam/lobe/thingy rotates it misses the frame by less than the width of a piece of paper yet doesn't hit. This program is awesome. I highly recommend anyone download it and go through the tutorials. Many of the pieces were cut using CNC. When you look at the model you may notice a lot of what appears to be decorative brass plugs and such. In most cases, although they add beauty, this was to cover or 'enhance' holes that where put in to hold the pieces down while the mill CNC'd them. Last, the black is anodized. Again there is a link on my website to the guy's site I learned it all from. About $50 and your anodizing in your home. Heed his precautions. I haven't had any problem but his warnings make sense. I can't say enough about anodizing. It hardens the aluminum considerably and you can dye it just about any color you want. I think my next project will be external combustion. If anyone has any information/sites on multi-cylinder, very visual movement externals to get my design process flowing I'm very interested in them. Mark A. Brown www.zora-arkus.com ------- Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:01:19 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: set up .. set up .. set up [taigtools group] Lynn writes: >>I am guilty of spending a lot of >> thinking and setting up time compared to cutting time though well my advice is DON'T EVER CHANGE THESE PROPORTIONS! A very small amount of the time I spend on projects is "actual cut time". I start out with: 1. Sketching and head scratching. 2. Checking what materials I have on hand vs have to order (can I change the design to work with what I have). 3. CAD drawing. This isn't always necessary but often I still do it because it makes me stop and think and plan ahead rather than just winging it). Also since I'm doing more and more CNC the CAD part is a necessity for those jobs. 4. Thinking through the order things should be made. The order of cuts is important when you are concerned about "squareness", drilling and tapping, tooling changes (especially when you have a central post machine like my Grizzly where I have to climb up and down a step ladder to raise and lower the head depending on what tools I'm using ... drilling as opposed to milling for instance). 5. Preparing the material by cutting it to rough size. 6. Marking the material. 7. Collecting the fasteners I need and obtaining any tooling I don't have. 7. Figuring out holding techniques for the various materials and cuts. This is not only critical for the success of your project but also for safety. 8. CUTTING THE PART 9. Checking the part. 10. Correcting mistakes I made when cutting the part :-) 11. Deburring and finishing the part. 12. Assembly. ------- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:05:28 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: CNC mill projects ... What are you making? As I replied to my wife once when she made a rare visit out to the shop and asked me what I was making with my mill, "Why I'm making add on accessories and modifications for my lathe!" Then she asked, "Well what are you making with your lathe?" To which I replied, "Add on accessories and modifications for my mill! .... of course" ... at which point she just rolled her eyes heavenward with a piteous expression, turned and walked back into the house shaking her head. Ken J. ------- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:00:01 -0800 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:CNC Mill Projects Although I haven't completed them yet, here is a list of "work in progress" with my mill. The first cut I made after getting my converted mill going was a 2 1/2 D carving of our cat which we had just put down because of his declining health and age.(19 years) It was in a piece of 1" Plexiglass and while it wasn't the best, it wasn't bad for a first project. I have the following projects up-coming. My son want's a Tube Amp Guitar amp. I am going to build it from scratch. I'll use the CNC mill to cut the chassis and also cut and engrave the control panel (switches and knobs). I repair faceting machines, and I am making replacement parts for them. A friend is doing Gem Shows and I am going to engrave some gem inlay knives for him I am designing a new faceting machine and will be using the CNC mill to produce the parts. I still don't have the full electronics for my mill, and lathe projects finished, so I will be milling PC boards when the design is complete. I am making some templates for a friend in Australia who teaches Opal cutting. A special size oval template is not longer available, so I'll make some for him. I am designing some jewelry pieces which I will cut the wax pattern for to cast into gold. The neighbor would like a sign for his mailbox. Easy. Another neighbor lost his supplier for speciality gear shift knobs for Hot Rods. This is an easy project. The list of things to do with the machine, other than make more parts for it is only limited to your imagination. Don ------- Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:52:43 -0000 From: "Charles Hixon" Subject: Re: Stock mounting issues [now CARDBOARD GEARS] I don't cut gears, but imagine I'd drill holes in the blank web and bolt the gear blank to my tooling plate, being careful to design those holes to have a pleasing geometric pattern in the finished gear. By the way, There is a demand for cardboard gears perfect for fabrication on a mini-mill (with rotary table). This demand is in the old car hobby. Prior to the thirties, cars had a hard cardboard gear screwed in the hickory spokes on inner side of one front wheel. In my Stewart (before Steward-Warner) speedometer, this gear drives a smaller cardboard gear which rotates the chain inside the casing up to the housing with the barrel speedometer, odometer and trip odometer. Needless to say, these gears required periodic replacement. Folks are constantly looking for suitable gears, yet I have seen no one claim to make them (watch someone make an idiot out of me), therefore driving up the asking price to what a tooling shop would charge for special one-off gears out of alloy steel. Surely someone here is a gear specialist willing to prepare one-off gear sets out of cardboard as a hobby business by, for instance, advertising in Hemmings Motor News or SPAAMFAA. Charles Hixon ------- Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:26:46 -0000 From: "Charles Hixon" Subject: Re: Stock mounting issues [now CARDBOARD GEARS] I have a set buried somewhere in the next county not installed yet- the problems with being a packrat. I am unaware of a book on this subject. They were typically installed on the front right wheel of cars and trucks before four-wheel brakes demanded their move to the transmission gears. Some Ford Model T's had them optionally installed. But Fords were built to a cost, so most other cars had them. Quick thumb-through shows a picture of one on a yellow roadster on p. 175 in Automobile Quarterly's World of Cars, Bonanza Books 1981 ISBN 0-517-34818-7. Almost not worth seeking out since that's the only example I see in the book. The best place to get a look at these gears is to visit an old car or possibly fire truck museum that displays cars made between about 1910 and 1930. Take your digital camera, I'm sure the curator would indulge your fettish. Charles Hixon ------- Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:45:50 -0000 From: "Charles Hixon" Subject: Re: Stock mounting issues While you're at it, look at the hubcaps on these vintage cars: they are very small, functioning merely as a bearing cap, yet containing detailed engraved insignias. I've paid through the nose for these. No more. Other fixtures I've made myself, such as mold detail for molding my own "original" tires. My point is, there are folks out there who need various and sundry trim parts, knobs, tail light lense rings, electrical sockets, clips, fuse box covers out of bakelite, radiator caps, gas tank caps (these are simple reproducable devices unlike today) etc. etc. etc. but prefer to buy them vs. making them. Consider buying an unrestored vintage car missing lots of trim, make what you need, make sure it is correct and then make some more to sell. Charles Hixon ------- Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:27:09 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Barry Jordan ... more [POSTED TO TAIGTOOLS GROUP] (I know all this is a bit off topic but you have to admit brilliant stuff) >> Hey! Since you've seen them first-hand, do you know if he did his own >> castings for that, or was that all machined out of bar stock? > He machines all these models from solid - steel & cast iron as appropriate. At 1/5th scale one wouldn't have to worry too much about castings since material removal at that scale shouldn't be a real huge factor. The shapes involved aren't that exotic. I really love this gentleman's work and the story that goes along with how he got into doing the work. It truly is inspiring. In addition to the DSG lathe he also designed and built his own mini-mill with built-in microscope for making the models more good stuff here including pictures of the special mill: http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Jordan.htm Ken ------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:44:10 -0000 From: "minitool41" Subject: Scale Model Woodworking Tools I'm brand new to this group as of tonight. Up until now I have been working without a mentor or any formal training, so contacts with skilled machinists sound exciting! After retiring several years ago, I bought a Sherline mill and lathe simply because I always wanted to learn how to use them. I wasn't interested in making steam engines (the time required exceeds my concentration span) so I focused on reproducing classic wood tools (primarily 19th century wood planes) in reduced scale. I work primarily in brass, rosewood, ebony, and some small amount of ivory. To date, I've produced about 20 different tools in 1/3 to 1/6 scale. I have recently added a cnc 8-axis mill which I use to cut parts with curved profiles. It does a nice job, although I'm not really challenging the system capabilities as yet. My most common PROBLEM is cutting square holes through sections of wood/brass that are perhaps 0.25" to 0.75" thick, often at an angle to the surface of the part. To date I've accomplished the task by drilling a series of holes and finishing the edges with a small milling tool (if the size of the hole is large enough) or with the use of small chisels or small files. I've tried cutting away some of the waste with a jewelers saw, but I don't seem to be able to follow the lines on the top and bottom of the stock at the same time. (FINALLY THE QUESTION!) Can anyone offer some hints on cutting accurate square holes in thick stock? minitool41 ------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:21:20 -0500 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: Scale Model Woodworking Tools Hi, hope there is a germ of useful help in the following. I apologize to those not familiar with old-style "wood" planes (which may have parts of various materials including wood, brass, ivory, bronze, cast iron, and steel) if any of the following is not clear. I've dealt with similar projects making wood planes at full scale, and would likely proceed in a similar manner for one-off little models. I presume the squared corner holes you are concerned with here are for the plane's iron and cap, or iron and wooden wedge, as the case may be. Certainly one of the biggest challenges is getting reasonable continuity and straightness for both ends, each of which must be in a precise location. Typically the hole is angled and is not the same size at both ends, which makes use of a square broach perhaps more complicated than expected if someone is unfamiliar with such planes. Let's leave potential use of a broach for later here. The ends are typically rectangles of different size and at a significant angle to the surfaces where they appear. A precise layout of each end of the hole is required, as well as a guideline along the side of the plane body to aid alignment of any tool used. Since I will be opting for manual tools for final cleanup, I want the body horizontally on its side, and drilling horizontally. On a large scale, the drill of choice is a horizontal boring machine or Shopsmith or mill with head tiltable by 90 degrees, where their tables have elevation capability. The Sherline manual mill with head horizontal meets all needs for a small project. A lathe could also be used but changing the elevation of the plane body to raise or lower holes will be more awkward. Even holding the body in a milling attachment on the carriage is not helpful as we want to drill from both ends without re-gripping the plane body. But it certainly could be done on a lathe. Just a bit more of a challenge, and hobbyists don't mind a bit of time well spent having fun. The use of a horizontal drilling mode allows us to first place the drill bit along the outside of the body to confirm that it will stay inside the drilling boundary when we lower the mill head and then drill. Mounting the body on a rotary table, or onto a rotary vice, will make drilling from both ends easier without changing the setup much at the drill head. The Sherline's manual mill and three axes are fully adequate, but those with added feature$ are okay too :-) Now the bulk of the waste has been accurately drilled out, a very sharp chisel used from each end will flatten the hole sides. (The sharper the chisel, the less force required, and less chance of error.) No harm will come if we are careful to chisel nowhere near the far end of the hole, and leave the very corners for final cleanup. We want those hole corners square. Use of a broach is certainly possible but it will involve more setup time than a file, and if wrong will instantly ruin the job. Careful use of a file with safe edges poses no danger whatsoever. (Grind safe edges if the file does not have them.) We are removing minimal material here, and will work cautiously from both ends. If I were making multiple identical planes, I would produce a precise steel hardened template for each end of the hole and double-stick tape them in place before filing to speed up the process and guard against error. HTH regards Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:33:07 -0800 (PST) From: John Maki Subject: Re: Re: Scale Model Woodworking Tools Thanks for the response, Steve. It's clear you understand my problem, having built full-size wood planes. I need to think-through your suggestions to understand why you want to drill in a horizontal mode. Do I understand that you drill half-way through the body from the top side and then again from the bottom side? I can see how this might minimize a "wandering drill" problem. When you get down to 1/3 or 1/4 scale, the openings become quite small. As a result, I have built a good collection of miniature files and chisels. Once again, thanks for the reply. John Maki ------- Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:49:27 -0500 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: Scale Model Woodworking Tools Original Message from John Maki: >>> Thanks for the response, Steve. It's clear you understand my problem, having built full-size wood planes. I need to think-through your suggestions to understand why you want to drill in a horizontal mode. Do I understand that you drill half-way through the body from the top side and then again from the bottom side? I can see how this might minimize a "wandering drill" problem. When you get down to 1/3 or 1/4 scale, the openings become quite small. As a result, I have built a good collection of miniature files and chisels. <<< Hi John. You are welcome. Nice to see an appreciation for the use and benefits of hand tools. Every machinist or woodworker needs a good collection of top quality files (and a grungy set) to accompany the noisy powered stuff. Yes, we could set up the drilling operation to be done with a drill press or a mill with the drilling vertically. You could then still move the plane body (X-Y moves) so that each drilling operation is first practiced out in front of the body and compare drill-bit angle and location visually with the layout lines on the side of the body so that you will not later drill outside the proper cavity. Also you can ensure that the drill stops are set, or Z-axis coordinates noted, so the drill will not go outside your safety zone for the operation, and will definitely not break through the far surface. Halfway is fine. The drill chuck is then raised to clear the plane body and the latter is moved back to drilling position using the Y-axis of your mill, or of a drill press X-Y-vice, or manually on a drill press table. The problem with the vertical drilling is that we do indeed want to drill the other end of the cavity from what is now the bottom side, because through-drilling will eventually cause either splintering at the far end, or a miss that ruins the project back to startover. Chances are you will have to reclamp the plane body for the other half of the drilling with more set-up time, unless the plane is being held by a rotary table or the like, AND clears the carriage when you turn the rotary table 180 degrees. To do any chisel or file work, you will then have to undo your setup and have the hole horizontal. (I sure cannot file vertically with any control whatsoever, and I can better see this later handwork from the side.) The initial setup of the plane body on its side ensures only one clamping is needed for horizontal drilling in from both ends, and subsequent comfortable chisel and filing operations. (Swinging the plane body through 180 degrees horizontally also is no problem even if the plane is far longer than the rotary table is wide.) I also wanted to clarify my suggestion that if you want to do a small run of identical planes, it could be useful to have a hardened metal template stuck around each end of the hole during the filing operation to guard against accidentally straying outside the lines. For filing purposes, the template should be heat treated and quenched, BUT NOT TEMPERED. It should be glass hard so that a file used carefully cannot cut the template, but will slide off. This special purpose template is not a knife blade or the like that needs tempering to prevent cracking or chipping. Given the small size of the holes you are doing, such templates may be more trouble than they are worth, even for a small production run. Slow and careful are the watchwords for finishing steps in any process. And for the metalworkers out there that have followed this thread, and also do woodworking, treat yourself to the quiet swish of a handplane and keep that honkin' screamin' electric router on the shelf from time to time. Will add years to your life. Someone in one of these groups recently noted that he had a new mill (lathe?) and didn't know what to make next. Obviously metalworkers will suggest hundreds of neat accessories for metalworking machines. In a similar situation, a metalworker-woodworker would probably also suggest accessories for woodworking tools. Ironically, someone not in the metalworking/woodworking hobby would say why don't you make something that is not a tool or machine accessory? Some of us simply just like tools. Projects that will delight metalworkers and woodworkers alike can be found in this short list of books: Wooden Planes And How To Make Them, by David G. Perch and Robert S. Lee, Algrove Publishing, ISBN 1-894572-49-1 available from Lee Valley Tools at www.leevalley.com This inexpensive book has detailed instructions for about 20-odd wood planes, some of which are good starter projects. Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools, by Jim Kingshott, Guild of Master Craaftsman Publications Ltd., ISBN 0-946819-32-7 goes to a higher level with metal-wood composite planes, some of which will challenge even the most gifted among us. Similar planes are available in kit and rough casting versions from the St. James Bay Tool Co. in the U.S.A. http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/ Woodworker's Essential Shop Aids & Jigs, by Robert Wearing, Sterling Publishing Co., Inc., ISBN 0-8069-8584-4 which is a wonderful collection of projects to make a large number tools and accessories useful to metalworkers also, as well as adjustable woodworking planes. Making Woodwork Aids & Devices (Revised Edition), a later book by Robert Wearing that has all different stuff on similar topics, Guild of Master Publications Ltd, ISBN 1-86108-129-4. Restoring, Tuning & Using Classic Woodturning Tools, by Michael Dunbar, Sterling Publishing C., Inc., ISBN 0-8069-6670-X which does as the title suggests. With metalworking machines, you can do even more intensive repairs or restorations on fine old tools. Those five books will delight and reinvigorate even the most tired amongst us. Please treat yourself to at least one for Christmas. And to all our American friends and their families, a safe and happy Thanksgiving. Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:18:08 -0000 From: "dap1823" Subject: Re: Scale Model Woodworking Tools Some of the best advice I have ever seen..thanks for taking the time to inform all of us...new and old david in san jose ca u.s.a. ------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:15:28 -0000 From: "minitool41" Subject: Re: miniature tool.... --- In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "dap1823" wrote: > I am also looking for anyone who is thinking,doing or creating tools > on a small scale.It might be a good idea to form a new Group if > enough of us feel the same way..I now make miniature guns. down to > 2mm and yes the do FIRE...e mail me if intrested... in forming group > davidperkinssjx~xxy... in san calif... u.s.a. There are some unique problems among those that work regularly in miniature. Some that come to mind might include sources for miniature components such as screws, rivets, etc. Also, finding sources for dense, fine grained woods that finish well in small scale is a daily issue as I make miniature woodworking tools (think about plane handles, saw handles, etc.). Very small cutting tools are always important, as well as setup methods for tiny parts. I'd be interested in such a group! John Maki ------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:46:06 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: miniature tool.... John: Having worked in miniature for some years I am compelled to comment. I hope you don`t mind. If you are truly going to build a scale miniature model of something you will find that you will be able to buy nothing to scale. Every last rivet, spring, bolt and nut plus maybe even the taps and dies will need to be made. There is nothing worse than to see something someone has spent hundreds of hours making, only to have hardware store screws five times too big where there should be a scale bolt. All miniature machining setups and techniques will be the same as for larger items regularly discussed on this site and others. As for wood if your model is to be true to scale you will have no choice but to use the same as what was used on the original. For larger items you may be able to use traditional wood working techniques. However for the small items you will find that it will be far faster and more accurate to artificially harden the wood and machine it the same as you would the metal parts. When drilling and broaching small wood pieces I clamp a piece of aluminum stock on the top and bottom. This gives very clean accurate hole on both sides of the work piece. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 12:35:09 -0500 From: Bob Lombardi Subject: Re: Scale Model Woodworking Tools - Can I ask a Dumb Question? Can I ask a dumb question? I missed most of the realtime discussion of this, due to the Thanksgiving travel. But isn't drilling a square hole, even if at an angle, what mortise drilling machines are made for? I realize that they may not be that common, I sure don't have one, but the Harbor Freight store up the road has one for around $100, if I recall. At that price, if I was going to make a bunch of square holes, I'd get one. Put a spacer under one side to drill at an angle.... Bob Montana_Aardvark ------- Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:14:22 -0000 From: "minitool41" Subject: Re: Scale Model Woodworking Tools - Can I ask a Dumb Question? It's a fair question, Bob. However, these holes have square corners but are also tapered top-to-bottom. Also, they are often less than 1/4" wide. And on some occasions the holes are in brass. John ------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:18:44 -0500 From: "Marshall Pharoah" Subject: RE: Re: Scale Model Woodworking Tools - Can I ask a Dumb Question? I have one. If you want to drill a single square hole they are good. They are OK on rectangles if you know what you're doing. They really want even pressure on opposite sides to work right. That is, if you can drill two holes and then get the waste between them so that there is equal overhang on opposite sides, they will work. If you want to start at an angle you need to chisel away some material so that the 4 corners of the cutter hit evenly. Marshall ------- NOTE TO FILE: I was away during Bob's follow up question, and good answers by John and Marshall. Some further reasons NOT to use a mortising machine (or even a manual 90 degrees square corner chisel) when the wood surface is not at 90 degrees to the hole: The hole made does not get a 90 degree corner. (?) Yep, just get a machinist or carpenter square and snug a square piece of stock into the inside corner of the square (pretending the stock is the mortising chisel). When the chisel is perfectly vertical to the surface, the hole will be 90 degrees. At any angle to the surface, the tool will make a hole corner less than 90 degrees. Mortising chisels, even if perfectly sharp, may crunch the corner wood slightly. A corner chisel is physically thicker at the corner that it is on the two wings. For large scale carpentry, any imperfect corner in the mortise (hole) is compensated for by the male tenon corner being slightly relieved, either by a plane or sandpaper, or during joining as the wood deforms or compresses the tiny amount necessary in the corners. Much joinery has a shoulder around the base of the tenon that hides the edge, and/or corners, of the mortise. A hole in our project here must have a perfect corner. ------- Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 16:53:22 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Congratulations to John Shadle! Hi Folks, I don't know if John Shadle still frequents our group, but those who have been around here a while know that he does some very fine clock design and building. In this month's NAWCC Bulletin there is an article about the winners of the 2003 NAWCC Crafts Contest, held in conjunction with the National Convention last July. John won first place in Class 5 - Experimental Design, and the Peoples Choice award as well. Here's a link for those interested: http://www.nawcc.org/headquarters/news/crafts.htm And no, horology is NOT the study of one of the oldest trades :-) Cheers, Stan ------- From: Alan Marconett KM6VV [mailto:KM6VVx~xxarrl.net] Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:58 PM To: Sherline; Sherline CNC Subject: [sherline] Flywheel for Beam engine I want to make a large, thin flywheel for a beam engine I'm building. I aluminum rings of 6" diameter, 1/2" thick with 1/2" walls. I could drill radially into the parameter for spokes, but I don't like the holes. I could make up a flat plate, cut out spokes, and drill for a hub. How to attach the plate to the ring (if it was brass, I'd just silver braze it). I don't have facilities for TIG welding aluminum. I could make a hub, drill it radially and split it. If I could tension the spokes, they might retain the ring. If I could just drill from the INSIDE of the ring, I'd have have it made! Any ideas? Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 08:17:06 -0600 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: Flywheel for Beam engine Hi Alan, Like other respondents, my first thought is to drill the rim, fix the spokes, and then place a ring over the rim -like a tire - to cover the holes. But the machining of the tire would be a nightmare. Its inside dimension would have to be very precise and cutting a piece with > 6" diameter and having a relatively thin wall would be a real circus. Plan B would be to drill the spoke holes in the rim, fix the spokes, and then plug the holes with small tapered plugs made of the same kind of aluminum as the rim. I think if you pound the plugs in and then machine off the tops, they may well disappear into the rim. You might try a test piece to see if that method works. Plan C is to drill the inside of the rim at an angle and fix the spokes in a manner much like the spokes on a bicycle. Of course that would require a much deeper hub, but may result in a lighter flywheel, or at least - if you use very small spokes which this design allows for - a flywheel with its moment of inertia closer to the rim which would make it more efficient. Plan D: Bag the Aluminum rings and use them for some other application and cut the entire wheel from a plate. With your CNC set up I figured you'd jump at any and every chance to use it. ^_^ Good luck and let us know what you decide and how it works out. I always like to hear about new and inventive flywheel solutions. Tom Nance Corpus Christi, TX ------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:35:38 -0800 From: "Dave Goodfellow" Subject: RE: Flywheel for Beam engine Hi Alan: Take a look at -- http://www.davegoodfellow.com/flywheel.html This is a much smaller flywheel, but it solved the "spoke" problem for me. HTH, Dave Goodfellow Lancaster, CA http://www.davegoodfellow.com/ ------- Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1970 16:49:08 -0800 From: "Wm. Dubin" Subject: Re: Flywheel for Beam engine Alan, Many large English flywheels where cast in two halves, as well as the hubs, in "real" practice. The two halves then bolted together. If you did this, it would allow you to attach the spokes from inside the rim-half... difficult, but possible. You could even have flanges on your spokes that bolted to insets on both sides of the rim, and then to flats on either side of the spokes. If you get Model Engineer, check the ad's for Peter Southworth... he makes (and sells) a large flywheel for a Corliss that is done in 2 halves. It is a casting, but the pictures of it might help you. Wm. ------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:52:38 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Flywheel for Beam engine Dan Horn wrote:> Hi Alan, > Why not set it up with the drilled holes...then cover the holed outer rim > with an "overshoe of thin metal" > Sorta like what they did with old time loco's wheels. 73's Dan Hi Dan, Thanks for the suggestion. I'm leaning towards drilling the holes. Not easy to drill radially on 6" diameter stock on the Sherline mill! I did some more thinking, and I believe with the 1/2" thickness of the ring, I can tap the holes, and screw in an aluminum rod, to be cut off and filed flush. Now to figure out the spokes! What type of overshoe did you have in mind? A thin strip of aluminum, secured with flat head 2-56 screws? 73's, Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:20:55 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Flywheel for Beam engine Hi Tom, Thanks for the comments! My original plans called for the flywheel to be milled out of 1/2" plate, but I'd like to get truly round, turned spokes. Possibly with a little detail work. I've also considered making them a little oval, like the pix I've seen. A little harder to do with an endmill! I bought a "corner rounder", but it's too small, I think (back to MSC). So far, "plugging the rim" sounds like the best approach. But I've got time to think about it. The width of this flywheel appears to be thin, probably the style in the 1850's. I'm currently working on the column, with all it's rings. Ended up making it in three pieces, as the largest I could turn across corners on the Sherline lathe was 1.25", and I need over 2". Although the drawings of the beam engines I've seen (Stuart and M.E.) turn the column from one casting (I'm all bar stock, and smaller), I decided to bolt three pieces together. DOES simplify the milling on the head. I know, I need riser blocks. Not this Christmas. But I'm happy with the way the column is coming out. Taking almost as long as the cylinder to machine! Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:45:33 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Re: Flywheel for Beam engine Hi Jerry, It's not that I NEED to use aluminum for the flywheels, just that it was available yesterday on our sojourn to the "big city" of Oakland (Metal Supermarket). I was thinking of steel originally, and silver brazing the spokes in. Oh well! Plugging the holes sounds like a reasonable way to do the job at this point. I also intend to make a brass flywheel, although I'm reluctant to cut into an expensive and large plate of 1/2" brass until I experiment a little. The remainder of that engine will be brass as well. Alan KM6VV ------- oldtools digest Subject: Scratch Awl... steriodal! From: scott grandstaff Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:30:18 -0800 You Galoots are a bad influence! Last week when we were talking about awls, remember? Or was that the beginning of this week? And everybody was going on about how the big ones were so cool and I'm reminded of something I had simmering on the back of my demented little mind. Something like a solid boot to the butt down a little slope I already had well greased with imagination.......... So, I started in with one of my old doggy condition, perfect handle screwdriver bodies. It was a mid sized one of about 8" length. The blade was already all messed up. So, I heated it up cherry at the end and laid it over the anvil, working it down, reheating often. This removed the old blade shape and started the long taper. Next there were some unmentionable metal reducing tools involved. But files came into the picture too. When I got it close enough it was time to harden. With only a household propane torch I couldn't get the whole thing hot at once. Fortunately us hillbillies still heat our homes with wood. I built a roaring hardwood fire in my shop stove and plunked it deep into the coals. About 10 or 15 minutes later it was bright cherry through and through Out it came with a pair of tongs and plunged into the oil. I brought the deep fat fryer (Frydaddy Jr. downstairs for the exercise. Shhhhhhhhh, don't tell) It came out very hard. You could hear the brittle sound just plunking it with a fingernail. So, to temper it I brought it upstairs and put it on the top rack of the oven while some bread was being baked on the middle rack. I figured 45 minutes x~xx350 was maybe a little soft, but I couldn't convince SWMBO to cook her bread at 325 so I'll just have to live with it. Maybe the steam off the dough lowered the temp a little, maybe??. Still seems hard enough to me. It that low tech, or just no class? 8^D Well, then it was time to work the tool down to it's real shape in earnest. Lots of kinds of tools came into play here. The 4 sided hollow ground reamer action blade was done on a small 5" bench grinder. I'd have gone to a 4 for an even deeper hollow but didn't have one. As it was, getting 4 long, square to the handle smooth hollows down to a pin point is kind of adventure enough (try it). Purpleheart was the handle wood of the day. Looking over the stash made that evident enough. I wanted something dark and purpleheart darkens up with light pretty quick. I decided on stainless rivets for the all-white metal look. (Because, I eventually want to inlay some nickel silver (repouse I think it's called?) and maybe some mother of pearl. This last part is being hard on me because I can't for the life of me decide what to inlay. Anybody got any ideas? I have nickel sheet in .064 and .032 so that's how wide any lines inlaid with it will be) Let me tell you, this thing is about the wickedest looking and feeling thing I ever made. And I've ground more than a few knives. With the heavy handle and long needle point it quickly makes you a little queasy just to pick it up. I feel like I ought to get me a gold front tooth with a diamond in it and apply for a villian's role in the movies. 8^D Did I mention demented? Am I planning to use it? Well, I suppose. I got nothing against trying it once in a while. It does enter and ream wood like a dervish, I can attest. So effortless that once again, it makes one a little nervous. Here it is. http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/auction/awl1.jpg yours, Scott Scott Grandstaff, Box 409, Happy Camp, CA 96039 Tools: http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/scott/scotts/tools/tools.html PageWorks: http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/ ------- Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:21:50 -0800 From: "Dave Goodfellow" Subject: See-Through Steam Engine - Update [taigtools group] For those of you who have expressed interest in my steam engine with the plexiglass cylinder: I have completed the plans for this engine, and posted them to -- http://www.davegoodfellow.com/I%20Spy%20Plans.pdf The manufacturing notes that go with the plans are at -- http://www.davegoodfellow.com/ISpy.html There is a link to the plans in .pdf on that page. Dave Goodfellow Lancaster, CA http://www.davegoodfellow.com/ "No problem too small to baffle this expert" ------- Subject: Re: Spokeshaves oldtools digest From: Ken Pendergrass Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:01:37 -0500 Did you see Don McConnell's article on wooden spokesaves in "Popular Woodworking" 11/ 03? John Gunterman's on-line tutorial on making shaves is at www.shavings.net/teachshave.htm Blades from hocktools.com And it seems to me there was an article on making one in FWW [Fine Woodworking] in the recent past? But I won't take time to look it up at the moment. Ken ------- Subject: Re: Re:Patent search oldtools digest From: Trevor Robinson Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:19:05 -0500 (EST) You can search patents of several countries by going to http://ep.espacenet.com. US Patents go back to the beginning, but others start later. I think that British start only about 1850. They have, as well, French, German, and Japanese; but I have no experience with those. Trevor ------- Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 04:44:30 -0000 From: "Michael Romeo" Subject: Re: Engraving Bug Has Bit In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Lynn Livingston" wrote: > Ok, the engraving bug has bitten me and I'm hoping to get some hints > and tips on the subject. > I've seen the spring loaded bit holder that also helps alot when > working with non-flat material, but I can't budget the $350 for it. > However, it does seem buildable. Have any of you folks built one? Lynn, 2L inc recommends 3K RPM and 15 IPM for alumimium with their bits. See here http://www.2linc.com/engraving_assistance.htm You might try that and see if it helps. I haven't built one yet and I just got a whole bunch of helicopter parts so I don't think I will be anytime soon but Ken Jenkins has pictures of a spring loaded pen on his web site that should be easily adaptable to engraving bits. It's ingenious and relatively inexpensive to build. Take a look here http://kj.cloudcitydigital.com/pages/CNCplotterpen.html Mike ------- Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:41:30 -0000 From: "Lynn Livingston" Subject: Re: Engraving Bug Has Bit Hi Mike. I did indeed look at Ken's plotter pencil, but haven't figured out yet what keeps it from falling out when the z axis is raised. This does look promising compared to building one like the commercial unit. The commercial unit has a threaded barrel that I can't duplicate. This is when I wished I had threading capability on the Taig lathe. Hopefully, that will be remedied in the next month or so! Thanks for the reply! Lynn Livingston ------- Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:05:45 +1100 From: "Peter Homann" Subject: RE: Re: Engraving Bug Has Bit In the top picture there is a small round part with an arrow indicating it goes into the back of the assembly. I'll call this part the "cap". It has a small hole that the lead holder passes through . Apart from the hole it is also bored out so that it seats onto part #2, like a collar. If you look carefully at the cap in picture 2 you can just see the grubscrew on the RHD side of the cap. Once the cap is in position on part 2, the grubscrew is tightened preventing part#2 slipping out of part #1. For assembly, 1. The spring is slipped onto part #2. 2. Part #1 is slipped on part #2. 3. The cap is slipped onto part #2. 4. The grubscrew on the cap is tightened. 5. The assembly is slipped into the Taig blank arbour. 6. The grubscrew (bottom left of arbour in top picture) is tightened, fixing the assembly. Cheers, Peter Homann mailto:Peter.Homannx~xxadacel.com Adacel Technologies Limited, 250 Bay St, BRIGHTON, 3186, AUSTRALIA http://www.adacel.com Telephone +61 (3) 8530 7777, Facsimile +61 (3) 9596 2960 Mobile 0421-601 665 ------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:02:42 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Spring loaded pen > I did indeed look at Ken's plotter pencil, but haven't figured out > yet what keeps it from falling out when the z axis is raised. There is a little ring with a set screw which clamps around the ink barrel and fits inside the main body. http://kj.cloudcitydigital.com/images/pics/plotterpen.jpg it's the doo-hickey shown in the "inset" with the arrows from it pointing inside the holder. Ken Jenkins ------- Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:06:36 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Puzzle Plans? On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Dave Goodfellow wrote: > Does anyone know where I might find plans for a puzzle in which you put > a number of interlocking pieces together to form a cube? I'd like to > make one out of metal. Lindsay has a book called something like "Wonders in Wood". I was going to use some of the ideas in there to make some interlocking metal puzzles. Some of them are way more complicated than anything I've seen in novelty stores. Lotsa cool stuff. Tom ------- Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 05:54:33 +0000 From: "Del Stanton" Subject: RE: Puzzle Plans? I have a friend that made a Rubik's Cube out of brass. The individual blocks were about 1/4 inch (6 mm) square and it worked so smoothly! He did it on a manual Sherline Mill. I suppose he disassembled one of the plastic ones to determine how to make it. Del Stanton ------- Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:39:42 +1100 From: "Peter Homann" Subject: RE: Rubik's Cube Puzzle Here's a link on how they are assembled. http://www.rubiks.com/assembly.html Cheers, Peter Homann mailto:Peter.Homannx~xxadacel.com Adacel Technologies Limited, 250 Bay St, BRIGHTON, 3186, AUSTRALIA http://www.adacel.com Telephone +61 (3) 8530 7777, Facsimile +61 (3) 9596 2960 Mobile 0421-601 665 ------- Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 00:07:46 -0000 From: "alenz2002" Subject: Re: wooden clock > Does anyone have the plans of wooden clock? Try this site. There are several plans for free download. http://www.woodenclocks.co.uk/downloads.htm al ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following topic on acquiring tiny hex shapes is very instructive. The question as posed leads to some very complex solutions by our intrepid members. And then there is simplicity. Read on. ------- Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:27:25 -0000 From: "Bryan Hassing" Subject: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock I would like to produce several hundred small hexagons in brass, 0.010"-0.040" thick and 0.020"-0.060" across the flats. These are to simulate bolt heads on the 1:24 scale model trucks I build. I have considered purchasing 00-size and 000-size hex-head nuts and/or bolts, but for the quantity I need, they're prohibitively expensive. I also don't need actual bolts, just the appearance of bolt heads. I've contemplated cutting many pieces all at once as follows: With the mill's headstock oriented horizontally, a slitting saw would be used to cut one set of parallel sides into a brass sheet clamped to the rotary table, I'd rotate the rotary table 60-degrees to cut the second set of parallel sides, then rotate the rotary table another 60- degrees to cut the third set of parallel sides. A concern I have is that these tiny hexagons will fly all over the room as I cut their last side. I'm also concerned they will shift as more sides are cut, leaving them misshapen. I'd like to cut entirely through the sheet to avoid having to clean up thousands of tiny sides, but am not sure this is possible. I considered having these photoetched, but their thickness seems to preclude that option. I also thought they might be laser cut, but each little piece would need to have a sprue attached. What do you think of my idea of using the slitting saw and rotary table? How might I keep all the small pieces stationary until they're fully cut? Thanks. Bryan ------- Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:53:15 -0000 From: "Mark Vaughan" Subject: Milling miniature hex bold heads The makers of Mi-Tee Byte clamp fixtures makes a nifty product that is basically a precision thickness sheet of glue. It is specifically designed for metal applications. You could buy this glue sheet and afix it to the sacrificial plate and then attach the working sheet. After you finish you soak it in hot water or something equivalent to release the pieces. It comes in sheets 8.5x11 inch and a long roll as I recall. I have never used the product but I was considering trying the material on a project similar to yours. By the way, I do not work for Mi-Tee Byte nor am I compensated for my comments. Mark Vaughan ------- Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:33:54 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Milling miniature hex bold heads > The makers of Mi-Tee Byte clamp fixtures makes a nifty product that > is basically a precision thickness sheet of glue. Mark: This is a hard wax paper material. Place between the parts and heat to about 200 deg or until visibly melted, apply pressure to seat the part onto the holding fixture and cool. Machine part, reheat to remove. Paint thinner dissolves the wax. Do not attempt to reuse the paper. Great stuff for engraving plates and some other hard to hold parts. I do this frequently. RichD ------- Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:29:39 -0000 From: "Lee Owens" Subject: Re: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock Why not just use a Hex Punch and Die set? Historex makes one that has 5 sizes (IIRC). Reheat made one that had about 10 sizes but it is long out of production. I wouldn't recommend using them on brass. I'd use Evergreen sheet styrene. Once it's painted, no one will know what they are made of. Lee ------- Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:51:47 -0000 From: "Glen Reeser" Subject: Re: Milling miniature hex bold heads Why not buy hex stock and slice off pieces. Glen Reeser ------- Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 21:37:47 -0000 From: "Bryan Hassing" Subject: Re: Milling miniature hex bold heads Hi Glen: While many modelers "salami slice" styrene hex stock, I just haven't been able to achieve satisfactory results. The major problem with "salami slicing" is that, despite holding the stock perfectly stationary and cutting perpendicular, a knife blade's edge angle produces angled ends on the "bolt heads". Cementing these pieces on the substrate leaves them jutting out in various directions. This effect is particularly noticeable when several "bolts" are situated close to each other. Also, sanding the soft styrene to achieve a uniform-height generally produces a lot of fuzzies that need to be cleaned up and the hex shape gets distorted. This same effect occurs while using a razor saw to cut the stock. I've found nobody that makes brass or aluminum hex stock in the small sizes I need, including those from Special Shapes. Finally, I was hoping that cutting brass sheet stock would allow cutting a lot of uniform-thickness pieces in a comparatively short time. Thanks. Bryan ------- Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:30:54 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Re: Milling miniature hex bold heads Hi Bryan, You could make hex stock by starting with round stock. You could also use a slitting saw to cut it (therefore giving you uniform thickness). Using the sheet and the slitting saw like you suggested is also viable. I guess you need to try both and see which one gives you what you need with the least amount of effort. Yet another approach would be to make some, and then use them to make a mold, and then create batches of them at a time. Here's a web site that used an interesting material that is machinable once it hardens up: http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/robotics/projects/casting/ You could make the mold by using your slitting saw idea but just using a thicker piece of metal (so the slitting saw doesn't go all the way through). Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:25:03 -0000 From: "Radish" Subject: Re: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock Hi Bryan, the idea is excellent to be able to make the hex heads, only one small problem, I have tried the same ideas as you and it just don't work as the bits are so small, they DO fly all round the place and the saw WILL leave a very sharp raised edge on the brass that requires each and every small hex to be held and hand filed. Very time consuming and frustrating. Have tried getting K & S hex of the correct size but they only have hollow hex and not quite the right sizes, even tried filling the hex with soft solder and parting them of like salami, needed to rig up a catching system for these as well. Only got the larger sized bolt heads this way, used them on a 1:16th scale truck and they were OK. Working on 1:25th scale model trucks I found the best way to get the bolt heads was to cut them of another old chassis rail and then glue them into place. Try and get hold of some old models that somebody has made up and are throwing out, use these as your wrecking yard for all sorts of spare parts. Another place to check out is this link, they have ALL sorts of goodies for the model trucks, it's a real treasure trove, no affiliation with them at all, just amazed at what they have. You can contact them and ask if they still have the RESIN CAST BOLT HEADS, it is a casting of lots of different sized bolt heads for this exact purpose that you want. http://www.kitformservices.com/ regards radish PS if you want model trucks and other bits, check out these links http://community.webshots.com/user/radish1us http://groups.yahoo.com/group/modeltrucksaustralia/?yguid=97172132 go to the files section and READ ALL you can in the files, lots of ideas there. ------- Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:30:13 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Meyer Subject: RE: Re: Milling miniature hex bold heads I thought about this and dismissed the slitting saw idea. The stock is only .02 diameter (well on the flats, i would guess .021 .022 or so point to point). Where are you going to find a saw fine enough to cut that with out either deforming the work or outright sending it flying someplace once the piece breaks free. You also have the problem where the last sliver of stock that is cut will leave a burr on the piece. Scott ------- Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:32:54 -0000 From: "Glen Reeser" Subject: Re: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock OK, it may be possible to make the parts you are looking for by sawing them from sheet stock. You are not going to do it on the kind of equipment we use. I have access to an integrated circuit dicing saw at work. We use it to separate individuial printed circuit board modules from an array. It has a thin enough blade and high enough speed to do a job like this. The array to be singulated is stuck down to an adhesive sheet in a metal frame. This is placed on the platen and the saw moves back and forth and indexes to the next cut. There is continuous coolant fed to the cutter. This machine cost about $100K. My advice is to find the hex stock and get a jewelers saw. Slice off the bits by hand and glue them on. Glen Reeser ------- Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:01:44 -0500 From: "Ron Ginger" Subject: Re: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock A punch and die is the only way to make parts this small, and to make many of them. Find an allen wrench of the right size. Grind its end very square and sharp edged. Get a steel plate about 1/8" thick, ground flat stock would be best. Drill a hole the correct diameter of the inside of the hex. Use the allen wrench punch to open the hole to a hex. You will need to make some kind of guide to hold the punch- for stock this thin a drill press should work OK. Put the punch in the chuck, clamp the plate exactly under it and punch away. I suspect you could punch them out a dozen or more a minute. Industrial practice would have the plate and punch hardened, but Im sure an allen wrench and common steel die will last many hundreds of punches on thin brass or plastic sheet without extra hardening. ron ginger ------- Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:57:02 -0000 From: "Jerry Julian" Subject: Re: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock I have followed this thread for awhile and was wondering why the heads have to be made of brass? I have used the injection molded plastic nut and bolt heads offered for the model railroad builders and find they do a great job. I don't know if they make the size you want but some that I have used have been about the size of a head of a metal pin. Look in your local railroad model shop or Walthers.com on the internet. Jerry Julian ------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:06:56 -0000 From: "rodburner2002200" Subject: Re: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock If these are parts for model car or trucks......Evergreen sells the plastic hex stock in sizes so small you can hardly see it.....Granitline (Model RR parts) sells very small nuts and bolts (plastic). Or go to Micheals ? craft store and get the silver or black glitter....it looks just like hex head bolts. DL ------- Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:26:58 -0000 From: "mileagemayvary" Subject: Re: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "Bryan Hassing" wrote: > I would like to produce several hundred small hexagons in brass, > 0.010"-0.040" thick and 0.020"-0.060" across the flats. These are to > simulate bolt heads on the 1:24 scale model trucks I build. Yet another way. Give the lathe a rest. I do casting with 2 part polyurethane, using "Easycast" at present. It is really simple to use. Sets up in 60 seconds, simple parts unmold in 30 mins. Suitable tinting ($$) is available for any color or metallic finish. Finished parts stick on with CA glue. Get some modelling clay from the same place as the chemical. Make it flat. Press the allen key end or whatever other small part into it. Join the dots with a small channel to hold all the castings together for handling. Put some part A and part B into cut down plastic cups. About 5 mils just covers the bottom. Color the part A. Just enough color sticking on the tip of the stirrer does 10 MLs of plastic. Mix in the part B counting to 20 while stirring. Pour into the mold. After a few hours unmold and cut the parts off with a hobby knife. Below is an Australian site but it has a link to "BJB Enterprises" a USA site. Stuff needs to be couriered. If you are near a movie making area it helps as there are retail places around selling all sorts of this stuff. http://www.barnesproducts.com.au/index.html ------- Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 07:55:44 -0800 From: "Marcus and Eva" Subject: Re: Re: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock Hi All: I think we're losing sight of the SIZE of these things: The original spec called for hexes 0.020 to 0.060" across the flats. That's smaller than the air bubbles you'll likely get in your casting resin with an unassisted gravity pour. These things are TINY!!! Just a thought to keep in mind. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:29:34 -0000 From: "Jason Spangle" Subject: Miniature hex shapes, the nemesis... was: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock Marcus: That is really really tiny, I had said earlier that my ol' reliable spin-caster (pat pat) could do this, but when I was out in my shop the other day, I took some measurements and estimated the possible gap between the molds, for possible flashing. Even with some quality silicone molds for the 30 ton vulcanizer, it would be pushing it. What the ideal piece should look like is a hex headed pin (the pin probably about 1/32" long, and a tiny diameter) that way, you could drill location holes for placement of the hex shapes. I think that, even if I increased the air pressure to the mold clamping system, AND had photo-etched master paterns made of these hex shapes... well... does anyone have a coin? it would either work or not work... OR, I could walk into my secret room, and activate the shrinking ray on my cnc and myself, and charge this guy by the hour to make each bolt head. I could ship myself and the tools via UPS, and would just have to remember to bring a sandwich. Jason ------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 03:00:20 -0000 From: "rodburner2002200" Subject: Re: Cutting hex shapes from sheet stock One more time ..he can buy them for next to nothing.....DL [THIS THREAD'S COVERAGE ENDS HERE.] ------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:23:01 -0800 From: Jonathan Burchmore Subject: My first successful mill project [sherline group] I finished my first (successful) mill project today, a solid transmission mount, for a Lotus 7-esque sportscar I'm building. It's made out of 6061-T6 aluminum (the transmission mount, not the car). This project presented a couple of interesting challenges because of its size. The mount is 1.6x3.57xroughly 2" in size. I had to come up with some creating clamping solutions, and reposition the part a couple of times due to the size. First, the design, so you can follow along with the rest of the photos: http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/transmountmk2.jpg The tricky part of the mount is that the transmission is at a 4deg down angle to the chassis, so the mount needs to be angled on once side and flat on the other, and must have two sets of bolt holes (straight for the chassis, angled for the transmission). Inside radius is 3/16", which I did with a 3/8" ball mill, and outside radiuses are 1/8", which I did with a 1/8" outside radius cutter. Both were purchased from MSC just for this project, and were pretty expensive. I started with a 3' long bar of 6061-T6 that I bought from onlinemetals.com: [RUN TWO LINES OF AN ADDRESS TOGETHER WITHOUT A SPACE BETWEEN THEM] http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20001_640x480.jpg I cut it down to size using a cold saw and bandsaw that my father-in-law was nice enough to allow me to use at his work. Machining was fairly straightforward except for the clamping issues mentioned, and the sheer amount of material being removed. If anyone has any specific questions I'll be happy to answer them. In progress photos: http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20001_640x480.jpg http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20002_640x480.jpg http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20003_640x480.jpg http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20004_640x480.jpg http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20005_640x480.jpg http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20006_640x480.jpg Finished result: http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20007_640x480.jpg http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20008_640x480.jpg http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20009_640x480.jpg After some (very) light polishing: http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20010_640x480.jpg And set in place in the chassis (the chassis side metal fabrication still needs to be done): http://www.offline.org/~burch/locost/Chassis/Trans mission%20Mount%20Mk2%20010_640x480.jpg Jon ------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:27:22 -0000 From: "Mark Vaughan" Subject: Any ideas, please! I am using some very small brass hex head bolts for a project. The thread size is .8mm and the head is 1.04mm across the head. I need a method to affix the bolts, and I am having little success. I have tried tweezers, but the stainless steel tweezers end up rounding off the hex head. Augie Hiscano suggested turning and knurling a nut driver and then ream out a cavity at the working end. Then fill the cavity with JB Weld (basically an epoxy Liquid Steel sort of compound) and press the JB Weld-filled cavity over the head of the bolt and allow to cure. I oiled the hex head and did all the other steps. The cast socket head does not replicate the bolt head well enough to use. I have had no luck trying, say a metric set screw and embedding the set screw in my nut driver so I could use the set screw hex opening as my nut driver head. Anyone know where I can buy a nut driver this small? Or even make one? Small Parts, Inc, and J&L have nothing that seems to work. Mark Vaughan ------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:10:25 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Any ideas, please! Mark I use three different solutions for bolts down to .007" and .012" across the flats. First for installing the nuts and bolts I use a pocket watch balance screw installation tool. ( Available at any watch supply house). It will also work well for lightly tightening a bolt or nut. Next for tight areas I machine open end wrenches. ( Not near as hard as it sounds). They can be held in the end of a small pin vice for use. Third I make sockets. I first drill a hole the same diameter as across the flats in the end of 12L14 round stock. I then machine a hex .001" larger than the bolt hex with a short pilot on the end from drill rod or tool steel. After hardening and tempering it can easly be pushed .050" or so into the 12L14 to form a socket head. One thing I do is to drill all the way through the socket wrench so I can drive the hex forming tool out from the rear. This gives a accurate hex over pulling it out. Some people use allen screw socket heads but they are never seem to be the right size. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:30:49 -0800 (PST) From: Henry Flymo Subject: Re: Any ideas, please! Mark,you could try making one because I don't know anywhere you can get something that small. My idea is to use drill rod and drill a # 59 hole in the end. Then make a .041" hex on the end of another piece. Harden the hex and grind the end so that it has sharp edges. Aline the rods end to end with a slip fit coller. Press or drive the hex into the hole then remove it and harden the rod with the punched hex pocket. Note:make sure the hole is drilled deep enough to accomadate the chips that will be produced from the punch say one and a half the depth of the head socket. Socket depth of .080" would be good to allow grinding off the end to expose new hex do to ware from use. Good Luck, C.Fox ------- Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:56:11 -0800 From: "Dave Goodfellow" Subject: He made my day! Michael Lam is 14, a 9th-grader at Colonel By secondary school in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Using the school's elderly CNC mill (Spectralight) he built as a Science Fair project my "I Spy" steam engine from plans posted on my website. This is why I post plans, and his success made my day. As you can see by the blur of the moving parts, his engine runs like a champ. A picture of his engine is posted at -- http://home1.gte.net/davegood/lam.html Do American public schools do anything to support this kind of activity anymore? Dave Goodfellow Lancaster, California http://www.davegoodfellow.com/ ------- Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:46:14 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: He made my day! Not that I know of. There are two very nice high schools in the vicinity near my house, and from what I can tell neither one offers shop courses or has shop tools. Kinda makes me sad, but c'est ca. What I would REALLY like to see is multi-disciplinary courses. Have an electronics teacher, a machine shop teacher, and a computer teacher all go in together on a course. The course? Mini-Sumo, a robotics competition that pits two robots against each other, each costing roughly $100 a pop. If this was done as a team effort, it wouldn't take many kits to handle a class. The advantage to something like this is that you can get them in kit form, and all of the kits assume you're going to modify them to some extent or another (kinda like the Taig!) So modifying them to take new sensors or actuators is not like cutting into a Ferrari with a blowtorch. For the really ambitious teams, you can scratch-build these things. That's how the event got started. Nothing like building a machine from scratch, wiring it, programming it, and watching it go. And that's the part I like the most about this competition: It doesn't depend on who the best driver is. The robots are automated. Soon as I have some vestige of free time again (figure some time five years from now) I'm planning to volunteer time to help mentor for this sort of thing. The kids I've run into here are hungry for it. I'm just not sure the schools are. Sorry for inserting foot into mouth. Michael Lam did a fantastic job on that engine. I hope beyond hope schools down south of him are interested in encouraging that kind of mechanical ability and interest. We need to. Tom ------- NOTE TO FILE: John has a remarkable site of interest and inspiration to anyone, no matter what machines they own. Here he has made a half-size working copy of the already diminutive Taig lathe. And this is his first project with any mill, ever. ------- Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 04:52:01 -0000 From: "John Bentley" Subject: First mill project [taigtools group] This mill is great! It does whatever I ask without any surprises. I have put a few photos of my first milling experience on my site. They might amuse some lathe owners. http://users.eastlink.ca/~jbentley/MicroMicro.html Best regards, John ------- Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:31:58 -0000 From: "John Bentley" Subject: Re: First Proj,/TinyTaig Thanks folks, the encouragement is appreciated! Ken, the chuck body, tightening screws and one jaw have been done for some time, I'm just starting on the other three jaws now. Barry Jordan's work is beautiful, I have seen pictures of his work in the English magazines. I wanted to make a model Taig mill in the begining Nick, as I really like the fabricated frame, but I thought better recognize the classic lathe first. Too much time on my hands? ....there are snowbanks higher than my head in front of our house, how else can I spend my time? shovelling!! Best regards, John ------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:48:49 -0000 From: "ammcoman2" Subject: Model crank shaper [Metal_Shapers group] Went to NAMES again and somehow had to go to the PM Research display. Had a close look at the crank shaper model cutting a piece of brass. Someone had mentioned it in a recent post. Well I couldn't resist! It is based on a 1/12 scale model of a shaper displayed in the Charles A. Strelinger cataloque of 1895. The ram measures 3.25" so it would about 39" full scale and it stands about 5" high (60"). Would this make it an 18" - 20" unit? The kit comes with all the castings (aluminum), fittings and metal required including gears. There are over 50 parts to machine so it will take a serious amount of time to make. The screws supplied are 0-80 so I am really going to need my binocular magnifiers to build this beastie! I hope to be able to get the machined castings hard anodized in a "cast iron" color. However, to get a clean paint demarcation between the as-cast and machined sections I prefer to paint first then machine. This won't be possible if I get the anodizing done. I hope to be able to make the vise from some extruded cast iron that I have instead of the brass listed on the drawing. It will be fun doing the machined surfaces on the Ammco even though my Taig mill would get the job done. The big question is whether to have an overhead flat belt system as per the drawing or to modify with a suitably scaled motor dressed up to look old and located on the floor behind the unit. The problem with the overhead route is that one will want to add other machines from their cataloque - I guess this is a smart strategy on P.M. Research's part! Cheers, Geoff K in Toronto, Ontario, Canada --------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:04:15 -0000 From: volzmechatronicx~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Model crank shaper Geoff-- Thanx for the report from NAMES. Keep us posted--with PIX too--of your adventure building the Strelinger shaper model. 0-80 screws: I need a magnifying glass just to see them tiny devils. You just gotta go the overhead line-shaft route, even if it means other machines down the line to buy and build. If you want, I can post the URL's of several sites that have detailed info on line- shafting to include the delicious Almond type right angle drive mechanism...one of which used to be on the floor of the Ford museum. Henry had dragged it back from one of his trips because he found the mechanism so interesting. Gawd knows where they've stored it now...now that the museum has become a "proper" museum. Your Strelinger would be nice in double size and in cast iron: might be able to make real chips then. Did you get a complete set of dimensioned parts drawings with your kit...that could be double sized? Art (Houston) ------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:35:29 -0000 From: "ammcoman2" Subject: Re: Model crank shaper Art. Thanks for the reply. You ARE swaying me to the o'head shafting route - actually PM Research (www.pmresearchinc.com) do sell line shaft hangers, pulleys and scale belting - so maybe I'll start with just a small line with, of course, room for expansion! Wish I had planned my shop that way! I can remember those overhead shafts. Back in the early 60's in Cape Town where I grew up, we had to take a shop course in our freshman year for Engineering. The shop was out of the 1900's but impeccably maintained and we learned how to shift belts to get the machines up and running, one of which was a huge shaper. I took some photos of the display at NAMES as they had about 6 machines hooked up to a double row of shafts with a steam engine running the show - neat. I might take you up on the offer of URL's. I sometimes look at the Home Shop Machinist's BBS. One member, Carl, has posted many photos of old shops set up this way. Included with the kit is a complete set of very well done drawings including an isometric exploded parts view. 'Twould be easy to scale up. By the way it has a working square door (one has to make the hinge pins) but you can't have it!! I could send you a picture though. I'll probably not get going on it until the winter as there are too many outdoor things to do, one of which is house painting - drat. Cheers, Geoff ------- Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:32:40 +1200 From: giolw9r4vh001x~xxsneakemail.com Subject: Re: Re: Model crank shaper I dunno how many of you guys see Model Engineer, but a while back they featured a model built by a guy in Germany. It is a whole workshop with steam engine, boiler, line shafting, lathe, shaper, drill press, mill and so on. I should look it up, I can't remember what all the items were but it was a pretty complete sort of late 19th century shop. I had the pleasure of seeing it live at the Sinsheim show near Heidelberg in Germany. When I say shop, the building is included, with just the front wall missing so you can see in. All the items you would expect like spanners, hammers and so on are around the place..... Yeah, I wanna build one sometime. Must admit the aluminium is a bit of a put off. I did just order the Stuart lathe, so hopefully will soon know how good that is. It does use CI. They have not released the shaper yet and there is the objection that their picture shows the door in the wrong place, but maybe they will fix that yet, if enough of us point it out to them. (hint hint...) Aaah, must put together the line shaft for my 14 inch Alba! Ok, it is only a baby one, just a countershaft really but it does have the fast and loose pullies and a four step cone pully...should add to the ambience of the shop. I reckon myself that a scale of about a quarter or a fifth would be a good one for stuff like this, it makes for a pretty big model but one that would actually be quite usable. Well, a ten inch shaper would come out as 2 or 2.5 inch stroke, you should be able to cut steel with that, not just brass! I dunno how you would reach in through the line shaft and belts to work the controls, might have to think hard about the layout or train up some youngsters with small hands. Make a tapping guide for those tiny screws, it is just too easy to get the tap out of line..... regards John ------- Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:30:59 +1200 From: giolw9r4vh001x~xxsneakemail.com Subject: Stuart Lathe kit [Metal_Shapers group] Hi All, Well, I now have the Stuart Lathe kit in my hot little hands, or at least next to the PC while I am typing. First impressions are that it looks pretty good; the castings look as clean as we have come to expect from Stuart. I haven't checked to see how generous they are on machining allowance, something Stuart has sometimes been a bit close with, and of course don't know how machinable they will be, but they certainly look nice. The parts come bubble packed on two sheets of heavy card. There are five actual iron castings, headstock, tailstock, the bed, the headstock foot and the tailstock foot. The headstock foot has the door shape cast onto it which means that it does not open of course, rather a pity really. The remaining parts are all provided as steel, bronze, or CI bar stock ready to machine, apart from the fasteners, the rack and the gears for the saddle. For those who haven't looked up the web site, this is a plain lathe, eg non screw cutting and no power crossfeed either. Very much in the 19th century style with provision for flat belt drive. No overhead gear is included. I have ambitions to include screw cutting facilties, eg a leadscrew and quadrant with a set of change wheels. Since the saddle is to be machined from a solid block of metal, making the necessary changes to do this should not be impossible. I wonder if I can squeeze in a backgear while I am about it? One thing that has been exercising my mind is what scale are Stuart working to with this new series? Ok, given that a lathe spindle is convenient when something like 32 inches off the floor, and given that the model puts it four inches off the floor, I'll say that that they seem to be working to one-eight scale, or inch and a half to the foot. I'm open to correction on this...The centre height is one inch, so that would make it a model of a 16 inch swing lathe. The fasteners are BA, so don't forget to budget for a set of taps if you don't have them already. If I was Mr Stuart I would have been tempted to go for metric, which have the merit of being readily available in a few more places. Still, you could substitute your nearest local equivalent without problems I should think, if you prefer. The drawing is quite clear, one side shows each part separately. Third angle is used, a victory for America. (I always prefer it too.) Parts are shown full size. The other side has an isometric exploded assembly drawing, a full parts list calling out material and overall sizes so you can check the inventory, and a set of assembly instructions in three languages, English, Francais, und Deutsche. There are no machining instructions as such. I would think anyone who has made a steam engine or the like before would have no problems, but a learner would benefit from either more details on possible machining setups, or a convenient mentor to provide guidance. As far as equipment goes, well, you would want more than just a lathe I think, there is going to be milling and shaping needed beyond what a lathe, even with a vertical slide, can easily do. Some of it just asks to be done on the shaper of course. Speaking of which, I can't wait to see how their shaper and planer turn out. So..I am pretty pleased with it. Of course I will have to allow it to season for a while yet...mainly I will be in trouble if I don't finish off a few other projects first...especially a few that are actually finished apart from minor details! I'm posting this to both the shaper list and the Modeleng list, sorry if you get both... regards John ------- Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 01:31:39 -0000 From: "dreilanderecht" Subject: Re: "T" slots?? In Metal_Shapersx~xxyahoogroups.com, volzmechatronic wrote: > The slots are purely for alignment keys like on the base of the > vise. These slots are 5/16 inch wide and have a number of 9/32 inch > holes in them for clamping bolts--I don't know what the pattern and > distribution of these 9/32 inch bolt holes are in the SB table. >//snip// The primary work holder for the SB IS the vise. Art (Houston) This (slots and holes) is how the Ammco shapers came originally, although a large proportion have had the holes tapped out over the years. This has certainly happened to mine, long before I got the machine. It has also acquired a couple of extra tappings to suit the non standard vice that came with it. The latter holes I am not so happy about, and once I machine up the castings for my replica Ammco vice I might consider carefully plugging them. There are pros and cons to T slots...certainly you can put the hold down bolts anywhere along the slot, but a T slot can also fail rather dramatically. A tapped hole might strip too, but is rather easier to fix in a cosmeticly satisfying way than a broken out T slot. If you manage to pull one of those square headed bolts through the table you are trying too hard. I'd encourage people *not* to think of the vice as the primary work holder, even if SB or others may have intended that. Vices are great (and can be lots of fun!) but a good set of dogs, studs, and nuts, along with a few bits of sacrificial steel can enable you to do a lot of jobs, especially larger or awkward shaped ones, that either will not go in a vice, or are not so securely held in it. Of course you haven't lived until you have had a job move in the vice. I'm actually thinking a bit about T-slots at the moment because I am part way through making the Stuart lathe that I mentioned a few weeks back. The plans show the cross slide just marked with a few slots about 1/32" wide and deep. Muggins (that would be me) is wondering if he can make a T slot cutter to make it into a proper T slotted table. The scale is 1/12, which implies pretty small slots. With a bit of poets license, I reckon that I could cut the vertical part with my smallest milling cutter, which is 2mm...that is a slot nearly an inch wide in full size scale, which is a bit big even for a 24" swing lathe, but would probably look OK. So that leaves me to make a little T slot cutter with a shank 2mm diameter and a head of say 5/32" diameter and maybe 1/16" wide. (mixed units, haha,love it) I have successfully made and used quite a lot of interesting small cutters, dunno how this one will go, but obviously I will try on a bit of scrap first, rather than risking my beautifully dovetailed table. (Did the dovetails on the shaper of course...) I can see that even with the slower speed needed for a carbon steel cutter, the highest speed on my mill will be none too high, so I will have to keep the feed rate low to keep the tooth load reasonable. Since I don't have a power feed, that could take some discipline. regards John ------- Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:56:23 -0000 From: "charles_k2245" Subject: Re: model train engine > hi, does anyone have suggestions for making an O scale diesel engine > from brass? i have no metal experience. thanx Well, I think that you probably have the wrong group here. The term "metal shaper" as used by this group is a particular type of metal working machine as seen on our group's home page and not simply bending, cutting, joining, etc., sheet metal. I suggest you next proceed to the group for which I provided a link below and they should be able to point you further in the right direction. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brasscollectors/ Here is a group set up for tools to make train models: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/traintools/ Then, I recommend going here and typing in the key words in which you are interested: http://groups.yahoo.com The next link is to a group that has some plans for some rather simple live steam (not diesel) locomotives that you could make from brass but they are not the type to which you are referring. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlprojects3/ Try going to www.google.com and typing in everything within the following quotation marks except for the rightmost and leftmost outside quotation marks: "build "brass locomotive"" All-in-all, I recommend you head for the brasscollectors group. All the best, Charles ------- Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:20:08 -0000 From: "Lynn Livingston" Subject: Re: Repeatability & New to group [TIPS ABOUT TURNING TRAIN WHEELS -- posted to taigtools group, but clearly the ideas here are applicable to any lathe] "Randy Bachmann" wrote: > Hello, > I'm new to the group and have been researching lathes. > Regarding tolerances could I expect to create metal axles that are > cut so precisely that a metal wheel could fit snuggly on the axle? Hi Randy. I am far from an expert machinist or even what I'd call "good" with a lathe. But, I have made some very interesting parts on the Taig lathe. I have found that the setup and planning plays more of a role than the actual machining when it comes to intricate parts. The Taig has no problem cutting to critical dimensions; it's me who must learn to plan my jobs more intelligently. By this I mean I have shot myself in the foot more than once because I didn't have a plan that allowed the part to be made easier or more exact. But, from each job I try I learn something. Also, making the same part a few times (like train wheels) gives more insight than always making one-off items. The Taig lathe will have no problem being the platform for cutting your wheels. You may however find yourself designing and making setup jigs and such that will help you be faster and more accurate. Once you learn the lathe's personality, you can really begin to make better plans and cutting schedules. I've only had the lathe for apprx. 10mos. and I'm amazed at how much I've learned about how to plan a job. However, I still find the time to plan something backwards or machine myself into a corner! : ) Have a look at these pics on Nick's site. It show's a Taig machining a "G" scale wheel: http://tinyurl.com/3evad This pic shows the radial hole pattern being drilled: http://tinyurl.com/28oen Lots of other pics on this site showing what the Taig can do. You might also want to talk with Nick. He's a Taig dealer (I bought mine from him), but you'll find that he does NOT follow the greedy salesman's credo. He gives good honest advice and recommendations without bias. You'll be glad you did. Good luck with your projects. Lynn Livingston ------- Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:13:00 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: Repeatability & New to group I did those wheels for a friend who was converting a battery powered train to run on the rails with the rest of his locos. The problem with doing wheels is that there are a lot of different cuts which you have to make, bring the blank to diameter, cut the flange and the taper. The axle hole is not a problem if you spend the money on an undersized reamer which will give you a good press fit on the axle. You can always use some Loctite bushing adhesive to lock the axle in the hole, or just braze them in. A good press fit will work fine though (you will also need an arbor press...) I would say that wheels are a good project, but each wheel will probably take on the order of 15-30 minutes. You will definitely want a metalcutting bandsaw for cutting wheel blanks rather than parting off (what diameter are you wheels to be?). If you make them from free-machining steel, rather than CRS or HRS you will have a much easier time. See our web pages http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:09:51 -0500 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: Re: Repeatability & New to group To speed up your wheel turning you could buy a wheel forming tool available from some train specialty stores. (The forming tool has the wheel outside shape ground on it) Or you could grind your own tool. Turn a mandrel chucked in the lathe for a nice hand press fit to the wheel blanks and thread a hole in the mandrel for a bolt to secure the wheel blank. Once the mandrel has been turned do not remove it from the chuck, turn all of the wheels to size before removing the mandrel. Press the wheel blank on and cut to the desired depth and presto. The time would be as little as 30 seconds to a minute/wheel depending on material cut and the amount removed. I would get the blanks as close to finished size using this method. Bad Brad Rabid Weasel Racing Team ------- Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:59:05 -0000 From: "Richard Thompson" Subject: neat little starter engine Here is a link to a neat little engine with free plans http://cablespeed.com/~jbwebst/WEW/Gas_Engine.html [Small easily built gas or glow bench IC engine with following specs: Displacement: .75 c.i. / 12 cc Bore: 7/8" / 22.2 mm Stroke: 1 1/4" / 31.8 mm RPM: 1000 - 5000 RPM (measured) Spark ignition w/ 12 V high tension coil, points and condenser. Atmospheric intake valve (poppet valve), and cam/rocker operated exhaust valve. Throttle governed with an O.S. MAX .12CZ radio control car engine carburetor.] ------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:35:18 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Sherline sized drill press... [sherline group] For those of you who are interested, I've uploaded some photos of my most recently finished project - a shop-built Sherline sized drill press. The photos are in the archives in the folder bearing my name, in a subfolder named "Drill - A Work In Progress." I'm using "finished" loosely since my projects are never really completed and this machine was designed from the beginning to have multiple interchangable heads and tables. I think of this as the Phase I version. There will be other phases down the road, including a router head and matching table system. At present, I'm planning that these comprise the Phase II project. For what it's worth, I've already tested the router motor with the electronic controls currently installed in the machine and it works extremely well on DC current, variable speed and all. The drill's motor is a 1/3 hp, 4 amp, 90vdc permanent magnetic unit that is very quiet in operation, variable speed, and with good torque. It is roughly comparable to the motor Sherline uses on their machines for those of you who are familiar with them. It isn't a Sherline motor, however. Finding a suitable motor was quite an adventure. Without some tips from Jim Byrnes, I'd still be looking. Thanks, Jim! The controller electronics are from Minarik. I don't imagine many folks are interested in building something like this themselves, but I didn't like any of the commercial offerings and thought I could build something at least as good, if not better. This machine is my own original design. Although inspired in spirit by the Universal Pillar Tool designed by the late G. H. Thomas, there are only a few minor details borrowed from him. My machine is somewhat larger and significantly less complicated to build. A google search should locate photos of Thomas' machine for comparison, if you're interested. My machine stands abt 22" tall and the base is 7" wide. This makes it roughly the same height as a Sherline 5400 mill but with a narrower footprint. It has a 1/4" Jacobs chuck, although with reduced shank drills it will hold bits up to 1/2". A larger chuck could be fitted, but there isn't much point. I didn't originally intend to use the machine with large drills, but I've tested the machine by drilling some 3/8" holes in mild steel. In this configuration I can bog it down with excessive feed pressure, but with a moderate feed rate and rotational speed it cuts through quite nicely - at least as well as trying to do the same thing on a Sherline mill. Better, in fact. I have no reservations about drilling even the hardest wood with bits this size and larger. Some of the sample holes shown in the photos were drilled with a stubby solid carbide bit (1/4", also illustrated). These bits are available in fractional and number sizes up to abt 1/4". They all have 1/8" shanks and are all 1.5" long. I have a set of these down to #80 in size and have found them to be of excellent quality. They are available from "Drill Bit City" and no doubt elsewhere. Unfortunately, I don't have the URL as I write this. Regards, Jim Knighton [Later] I didn't have my Sherline mills when I made the "big" pieces. I used my Jet mill/drill and the Sherline lathe for most of the parts. My Sherline lathe heavily modified and with greater capacity than most. Some of the most recent small parts were made with the Sherline mills. [Later still] Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 I've been working on the drill off and on since last fall. This project has unfolded in fits and starts with several lengthy periods of time when I didn't work on it at all. I had considerable difficulty finding a suitable motor and that delayed it's completion for several months. The drill spindle(s)are relatively simple mechanisms as these things go. If you are familliar with Sherline's sensitive drill attachment you'll have a resonable starting point to understand what I did here. There is an outer spindle that turns 'round and 'round, and an inner spindle that goes up and down. The spindle bearings are the same size and specification as the ones used in the Sherline headstock and are quite beefy for a machine this size. The outer spindle rides in these bearings and has a short, stubby drive pin protruding into the bore in about the middle of it's length. Please note that I did not use a Sherline spindle. I machined one specifically for the drill. There is the obvious similarity in dimensions due to using the same size bearings but these are coincidental. My outer spindle is 20mm diameter with a inner bore of .375". I believe the headstock bore on Sherline's machines is .405", or something very close to it. The inner spindle is threaded for the jacobs chuck on one end and has a shallow slot for most of its length. During assembly, the drive pin slides into this slot. While the inner spindle is free to move up and down, the drive pin ensures that there is no rotational slippage between the outer and inner spindles. The return spring assembly is conceptually similar to Sherline's sensitive drill accessory and it's mounting is apparent from the photos. The gimbal for the feed lever is atop the inner spindle but not fastened directly to it. There is a ball bearing firmly pressed into the bottom of the gimbal and a SHCS that feeds through the gimbal/bearing assembly that threads into the top end of the inner spindle. The top end of the inner spindle was turned to match the bearing's ID and to ensure that there isn't any interferrence between the it and the spindle's body. Consequently, the gimbal appears to be part of the inner spindle. This is a deliberate illusion. These parts are screwed togther and seem solidly attached to one another. However, the gimbal is stationary relative to the feed lever and the inner spindle spins freely underneath it. Downfeed pressure is transferred from the gimbal through the bearing to the spinning inner spindle. There is very little drag associated with this process and no appreciable loss of rotational speed or power. The return spring returns everything to it's at-rest condition. The feed lever has a deliberately hidden short slot (abt 3/8" long) through which the front pivot pin passes. Keep in mind that the feed lever is moving through an arc with the rear pivot pin acting as the center of rotation. If the front pivot was a simple hole there would be a mechanical lock preventing the lever from moving at all. The spindle(s), gimbal, feed lever mechanism, etc. is the heart of the drill and easily the most complicated parts to visualize. As an aside, I put together a small x-y table for this machine comprised of a couple of Taig compound slides mounted one atop the other. I didn't think to include photos of this in the initial upload. I'll be adding these photos to the folder later this evening. ------- Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:32:41 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Solar RC plane - Slightly OT (Or maybe not) [taigtools group] On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, S or J wrote: > > Because of prevailing wind conditions I kinda sorta can't do much in the > > way of R/C airplanes here (unless I'm willing to learn to fly and land > > with 15-20 knot cross-winds) but I'm surrounded by water. [Tom's post] > > Hi Tom > The wind you describe is certainly no excuse not to learn and fly R/C > aircraft. In my geographical area, if you do not fly in wind of that > speed and up, you would fly very little indeed. Once in the air, the > aircraft has little or no concern for the wind velocity; that becomes > only a significant concern, strictly from the pilot's viewpoint, when > landing. Crosswinds are little problem with three channel aircraft (if > you have the right design) and no problem at all with a 4th aileron > channel to keep the wings level. (Landing steering is primarily rudder, > as ailerons have little left-right steering effect at low speed.) Given > your location in Hawaii, you have six or seven months less snow than we > do, so you definitely should be able to find some okay flying days. > Water everywhere? Use floats :-) HAHAHAHA! Ok, ok, you got me. And of course today has practically no wind. And I've got a football field available for flying, so I really am out of excuses. > While R/C flying is OT, the use of machine tools to make aluminium motor > mounts and other accessories for other hobbies is very much a good > reason to have them. It's an EXCELLENT reason to have them. I haven't really considered much of this off-topic since there's so much stuff that can use machining on any R/C vehicle. > Some find it a touch amusing that many HSMs spend all their hobby time > making tools and jigs and attachments to make other tools and jigs and > attachments, etc. Yes metalworking can indeed be a totally satisfying > hobby in its own right and no offence is intended. But it is nice to > have other interests where machining skills are an asset. > > A friend locally used a humungous (many tons) CNC milling machine on > lunch breaks to make well under quarter ounce spoked aluminium wheels > for micro indoor R/C aircraft. For machinists who would like a non-tool > project, the following web site with free online monthly magazine has > help, machining tips, plans, etc. for all sorts of model aircraft IC > engines. Ron Chernich's site: http://archive.dstc.edu.au/BDU/staff/ron/ Heyy! Good URL. Thanks! And no, I have no problem using tools for any and all hobbies. I'm making soap molds for a friend who's a soap maker. I'm making model parts for some scale modelers. I've made parts for instruments at work, bits 'n pieces for computers, aquarium bits, rocket bits, you name it. I do enjoy making tools for the sake of making tools, but yeah, I get a serious kick making other stuff as well, especially if it feeds other hobbies. > Wishing he were in Hawaii, > Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada > Now wearing a parka on "good" flying days, until the end of next April. I'm wincing as I write this... I'm in shorts and bare feet. And it's kinda hot. Tom ------- Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:37:03 -0800 From: Alan Marconett Subject: Re: Re: Questions from a newbie There are free plans/instructions for a little oscillator engine on my website: http://www.hobbitengineering.com You might like "The Shop Wisdom of Rudy Kouhoupt", there are three volumes. Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:04:17 -0800 From: "James Early" Subject: Re: Tube bender [beginnerswkshp group] > Does anyone know if the plans /drawings and article about a tube > bender are available on one of the groups files? Pierre http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlprojects/files/NeatThings/ JWE Long Beach, CA ------- Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 09:46:12 -0500 From: "David Lee" Subject: RE: Tube bender Pierre, there's two tubing benders at the Home Workshop section of http://home.together.net/~dslee/#FREEPLANS. DSL ------- Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 00:50:25 -0000 From: "jerigonzacl" Subject: Re: Tube bender Take a look to this one: http://membres.lycos.fr/vapeurlanguedoc/atelier_3.htm Andrés ------- Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:28:34 -0500 From: "David Lee" Subject: RE: Re: Tube bender Alan, check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkyard_projects/files/ There's lots of tube bending information there. David Lee ------- Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 22:01:53 -0000 From: "joe_sozanski" Subject: Re: Off subject skills object In Metal_Shapersx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Harprit Singh Sandhu" wrote: > Interesting item some might enjoy at > http://www.harpritsan.com/Hand_drill.html > It actually works!! > made by your truly as a presentation item for a friend. Regards HSS. Harprit, that's great! I was really shocked when I scrolled down to the final picture and saw the actual size. Joe ------- Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:20:26 -0400 From: hhelmenx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: piston ring question [Min_Int_Comb_Eng group] >> I'm converting one of my old weedeater engines into a model airplane engine and I don't think they make the engine anymore. The problem is I need a new piston ring. Is that something I could make myself and what does it need to be made out of? Thanks, Chris << Chris: You can make a piston ring , it's not all that hard especially if you have the old one and/or the original piston to work from. Use Meehanite or close grain cast Iron for your ring. You just turn a cast iron bar to the proper OD and then bore it to the proper ID. Then part it off and cut it. File off all the burrs, finish it by rubbing by hand with 400 grit sandpaper over a surface plate. Put an old drill bit in the ring gap the size you need. Clamp it in your vice on a flat piece of steel or what have you and heat it to red with a propane torch to heat treat it to take on a "spring". That is over-simplified but it is what you do. (The George Trimble Method from SIC is a really good way to accomplish all of this.) Also Vince Gingery's book "The Atkinson Cycle Engine" has a simplified method as described above in it. Hank Helmen ------- Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 18:32:34 +0100 (BST) From: David Everett Subject: Re: piston ring question Hi Chris. There have been numerous articles in the model engineering press describing the manufacture of piston rings. The 'Definitive' method is reckoned to be by George Trimble, descrbed in Strictly IC magazine. Back numbers can still be obtained. The site is http://www.strictlyic.com/pit01.htm Material is best from spun (continuously) cast iron. Hope this helps. Dave Saudi-Arabia-On-Sea ------- Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:48:31 +1000 From: "Ron Chernich" Subject: RE: piston ring question Or, essentially the same article by Trimble from the Model Engineer 5 years earlier: Volume 153, Issue 3735, August 21 1984, p210. The SIC [Strictly IC magazinearticle does expand a bit on the theory and adds the "acceptable ring envelope" graph (which appeals to the mathematician in me), but much of the text and diagrams are identical between the two. A slightly different and broader treatment of the topic by Tom Walshaw (writing as "Tubal Cain") appeared as an 8 part series in the ME starting in Vol 172, Issue 3961, 20 May 1994. When he finally gets down to talking about model sized rings, the key difference between his approach and the Trimble method is the annealing stage. He strongly advocates "soaking" the ring gapping fixture for 15 minutes at a temperature of 5-600 degrees C before allowing it to cool (as opposed to simply raising it to 800 C, immediately followed by air cooling as Trimble states). Other sources (Prof Dennis H Chaddock included) agree that this will result in a longer lasting ring-however the ability to measure the critical temperature and hold it requires more sophisticated equipment than most of us have available. However it's worth noting that at the lower temperature, scale cannot form, neatly sidestepping all the tortures that Trimble has us go through to prevent it. I've only made rings using Trimble's method (3 sets in different sizes), so please don't consider me any kind of expert. All have worked well though I can't say that using a simpler approach (or even the Chernikeff method described in SIC #74) would not do the job equally. My 0.02c worth... ------- Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:31:20 -0000 From: "Philip Burman" Subject: Re: piston ring question Walshaw's article is in the files [Min_Int_Comb_Eng group] as is Trimble's ring design on a spreadsheet. Regards Phil Burman ------- Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:46:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Pfaff Subject: Re: piston ring question Chris, here are a couple websites I found concerning making piston rings: http://www.metal-club.org/PistonRings.html http://www.btinternet.com/~sylvestris/rings/rings.htm Hope these help, Doug Pfaff ------- Subject: Re: Cuckoo clocks for Duck aka Doug [Oldtools list] From: Ralph Brendler Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:00:10 -0500 Alan Womack wrote: > on my list of galoot type projects is to make a real german cuckoo clock. > Thoughts on movements and suppliers? I built a "railroad clock" a few years ago: http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/cuckoo/index.html Lotsa fun to do, but pretty challenging. I got my movement and parts at a *very* good price from an outfit in Triberg Germany, but unfortuantely they no longer sell parts. The second best source I have come across is TimeSavers: http://www.timesavers.com/ This is the horological supply house I get most of my clockmaking tools and materials from, but they also sell a wide variety of repair parts, including stuff for cuckoo clocks. Their prices are quite good compared to the other online suppliers, but way higher than the place I used to use... :-( Ralph Brendler, Chicago, IL ------- Subject: 'koo movements From: "Douglas K. Stevenson" Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:35:19 -0700 One of the good things about having 'koos in the house is vampires will giggle when they hear them -- sort of a slushy snicker really -- and so you know that it's time and, importantly, have time to get out The Stakes. Alan, agree with Ralph that Timesavers in Scottsdale, AZ is a good place to get just about anything an enthusiast (a clock freak with a checkbook) might want. The owner, Steve Berger, travels quite a bit to Germany and thereabouts for material, and has a good sense of competitive prices. He's also (I've known him for years and feel good about saying this) an honorable mensch. My own experience has been that once exchange rates and packaging and post and all are figured in, they're very reasonable. But a fair way to check on prices and selections is to see what Selva of Germany have www. selva.de. They're the largest hobbyist suppliers in Germany and, I believe, in the world. Would recommend instead of purchasing a new cuckoo movement that you try and fine a movement from any pre-WWII clock. The earlier the better. They were *much* better built (bellows and pipes can be bought or torn/holed bellows easily repaired). And an older movement will most likely also be less expensive. Regards, Duck [ie from the German pronunciation of 'Doug'] ------- Subject: Re: 'koo movements From: Ralph Brendler Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 10:02:12 -0500 Douglas K. Stevenson wrote: > Would recommend instead of purchasing a new cuckoo movement that > you try and fine a movement from any pre-WWII clock. I agree with this recommendation in general, but there are caveats. It is absolutely true that an older German movement would be of higher quality than a newer one, but it would also likely need some work to get it running. Cuckoo movements are *very* fidgety, and have a lot of specialized parts to wear out. Only a small subset of clock repair shops will do cuckoo clocks, and the repair work tends to be expensive. I build clock movements and do most of my own clock repair, but my lone attempt at disassembling a cuckoo movement for cleaning and oiling was an exercise in humility. I eventually got everything back together and running, but I will freely admit that I am not nearly ready to do my own work on a movement this complex. If you luck into an old movement that is still running well, or have a local shop that can restore the movement for you, that's great! By all means get the older movement. But unless you know what you are getting into you may be better served by a top-quality new movement. Ralph Brendler, Chicago, IL ------- Subject: mvmts & complexifidgety From: "Douglas K. Stevenson" Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:43:05 -0700 Suppose that because I do restore older German clocks and movements, and write about them and it, and because the older wood-plate and later cast-brass plate and wheel cuckoos and cuckoos-and-quails were among the early victims, I thereby acquired a different view of their complexifidgety. Even when hearing that sickly crunch under the heel that indicates that the last (and always smallest) wheel has finally been found. But then again, among the (still) least expensive clocks in Germany today with quality 'massiv' movements are the so-called (in English) Napoleon hats -- in German sometimes affectionately known as Gelsenkirchener rococo -- which often took the fairly complex three-train Westminster movements. So they were also readily available as DYI anatomy course 'volunteers.' The problem for non clockies of course is that, as Ralph indicates, there are more than a few "clock shops" about which would charge much more to even just clean an older movement than to stick in one of the thin-plate Regulas, Herrs, or the like. Course there are also a lot around who recommend replacing older mechanical movements with cheap quartzies, as well. A problem for me, I'll admit, is that I view most of the more recent movements in the same way that wood folk might view, say, solid beech as opposed to plywood. That the last is readily available and less expensive goes without saying (he said ). Nope. Nothing wrong with a plastic 'koo popping out of the door. I just prefer the little-wirey hand-made and painted wooden ones, even when they sneeze. Regards, Duck ------- Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:20:12 +0000 From: j.w.earlyx~xxatt.net Subject: Re: [mlprojects1] New file uploaded to mlprojects1 From: mlprojects1x~xxyahoogroups.com > Hello, > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the mlprojects1 group. > File : /SparkPlugs/3414-Plugs.PDF > Uploaded by : jwearlyatt > Description : Part 1 of 3 of an article by Len Mason on making > miniature spark plugs. You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlprojects1/files/SparkPlugs/3414-Plugs.PDF > Regards, j.w.early Here is the first of three articles by Len Mason of Mastiff fame on the subject of small plugs for model engines. I also some earlier ones from the mid 40s by Westbury on the subject but they will probably not be scanned until early next year because of my current work load. There is also another four part series by Len Mason called staring into the fire, dealing with some of his experiments on what happens inside of the combustion chamber of a miniature engine that I can post to the mlprojects1 files if there is reasonable interest in it. JWE Long Beach, CA ------- Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 13:16:10 -0000 From: "bertf14" Subject: Pretty neat website for machining tips and projects [atlas_craftsman] Hello to all, This cool site is . I heard about it while I was on (another pretty neat site) Frets.com is run by Frank Ford, a luthier, and is mostly about repairing musical stringed instruments. However, if you click on the "Main Index" and then to "What's New", there's a whole section on tools and projects he's made in his machine shop. Lots of quality pics and clear explanations of his projects. He goes into his background a little and talks about the relationship between repairing instruments and making the parts to do the repairs. Thought you guys might get a kick out of this. Bert ------- Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 03:39:31 -0000 From: "joegourlay" Subject: My first metal turning project! [atlas_craftsman] I've been using my Atlas Craftsman to turn wood for about two years now. My projects have been purely utilitarian, unsexy, and sporadic (i.e., every now and again I need an ebony dowel or lyptus plug) Many, many months ago I asked you guys for a project I could complete in a weekend that had some "wow" for a little kid. You all counseled me to go slow and not be overly ambitious. Well, tonight I went slow and it was a smashing success! I needed a tool handle, and the tool handle needed a ferrule. Now, this is laughable to you all, but it's a big deal to me because I've been afraid of doing metal on the lathe for the last two years. Anyway, I crudely hacked off a piece of 1" cast iron pipe and trued up the faces on the lathe. That's it. The only tool I had was the cut off tool in the lantern post, but I put it on the lowest speed and proceeded carefully. I had no problems. Now maybe I'll get around to hooking up the milling attachment, cutting the insert for the QC toolpost I've got, and start going to town. ------- Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 04:35:20 -0000 From: "KDSpriggs" Subject: Re: My first metal turning project! Congratulations. As you turn more metal it will become as natural as turning wood. I got my first lathe about three years ago. I didn't know the first thing about one. I first made some accessories for the lathe: steady rest, follower rest tool holder and micrometer stop. With each project I gained confidence and knowledge. My first real project was a small steam engine. I have just about completed my second real project which is a Corliss steam engine. Great fun. In the last three years I have also acquired a Rong Fu mill drill, Atlas shaper and an Atlas horizontal mill. ------- Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:23:11 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: My first metal turning project! > Now maybe I'll get around to hooking up the milling attachment, cutting > the insert for the QC toolpost I've got, and start going to town tread carefully...minimum overhang, max. rigidity...lite cuts...NO CLIMB MILLING when u advance the x feed, taking a cut on bottom of cutter, the spindle Must be turning counter clockwise,or it will drag the piece in taking up the x feed slop w/ varying bad results ....read up ! the mill attachment is an experts tool...like .410 shotgun vs a 12 ga. ...if u need more info ,ask .....set up right , i can take a .030 full width cut w/ a 3/8 endmill in my 6x 18 .on 1018 steel ...that is near max best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:09:07 -0500 From: "mertbaker" Subject: Re: My first metal turning project! I started my lathe ownership with a wood lathe. Don't have one now, but do have a bunch of metal ones. IMO, wood turning is harder to learn. The difference is sort of like freehand drawing, versus mechanical. Making 4 exactly similar table legs on a wood turning lathe is much harder than turning the outer contour on 4 rifle barrels on my 12x36. Mert ------- Ring Lite [sherline] Posted by: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" jerry.jankurax~xxstratos.net Date: Fri Nov 3, 2006 8:15 pm (PST) Hi, folks: Over the past few days, I've read a few messages about Ring Lights and one fellow's ideas about manufacturing them for the Sherline tools. I searched the net via Google and found this URL: http://www.brainerror.net/texts_macroring_en.php that shows how to make one. I might just take the time to build something like this. Jerry J p.s. It would fit around the mill spindle and light the area around the cutter. I searched the web via Google and found this "do-it-yourself" article and figured that his ideas could be adapted to our applications. ------- Re: Ring Lite/ changed to Headlamp Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Nov 4, 2006 7:32 pm (PST) Hi Alan, Jerry J, I have a good "dodge' for you. In regard to lighting, I have found a "Petzl Tikka XP E86P" lighted headlamp to be great. No mounting problems. Just strap it around your head. :) They make a good variety of headlamps. (No commercial connection.) Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Deck Beam Vise Details [sherline] Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net shipmodelmaker1931 Date: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:37 am ((PST)) Deck Beam Vise Details. During the course of making one of my ship models, I had to make a number of deck beams. These are items that are curved to match the "camber" of the deck. Generally supplied on the plans. The curvature, that is. They are usually fairly thick and so are difficult to bend. Therefore, I elected to cut my beams out of the solid. In this case, the beams are 5 mm by 5 mm (.19685" by .19695"). To do this, I took a piece of Vega (Carpenter) Air Hardening Tool Steel that is .125" thick by 1.500" wide and the length was left longer for development. The curvature was made by placing the part in a "slip roll" * * ( a slip roll is a sheet metal machine for curving sheet material.) It works by having three rollers. The space between the driving rollers is adjustable. The third roller forms the bend depending on how it is set. There is a block with radii on it for the setting. Due to "spring back", it is necessary to experiment with a scrap piece until you get where you want to be. After the bending, I milled a central slot of 5 mm (. 19685") through the .125" by 4 7/8" long. Then there were two relief slots milled in that are .094" wide by 11/16" long. The DBV was then heat treated by hardening and tempering to a spring temper. When I put the deck beam vise in a vise and the part to be cut in the DBV, I center the wood by aligning a center mark on the part with a line engraved at the center of the DBV. The upper ends of the wood are aligned with the curvature of the DBV. Closing the vise with a gentle pressure so as not to crush the wood, but enough to hold it securely, I use a hobby knife to rough out the shape, then a mini spoke shave and progressively finer sandpaper to finish the beam. Works very well. Recently, on another forum (ship modeling), I saw a forming and bending device to do what my vise does. However, this is done by laminating a number of strips in a clamp bar. That is OK, but does leave exposed edges. Since my beams are cut from the solid, there are no laminations....BTW, the designer and maker of that device is Alexei Baranov, THE premier shipmodeler in all of Russia. We have been in touch by e-mail and exchanged ideas, etc. Regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) P.S. I shall upload two photos of my vise. Check out my "Golden Hands" Album. ------- Re: Deck Beam Vise Details Posted by: "David Clark" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:42 am ((PST)) Hi Jerry: Did you make your own slip roll? That's a project I've been considering for some time. The smallest commercial one I've seen is 12". That's about twice the size I'd like, and about 4x what I'd like to spend. Also thinking of a brake. (New hands: that's a device for bending sheet metal.) Again, about 6" capacity. Photos and advice on either much appreciated. DC ------- Re: Deck Beam Vise Details Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:53 am ((PST)) Hi Dave: No, I did not make my own slip roll. I was spoiled and before I retired 13 years ago, had access to every known machine in the best equipped toolroom ever. Before that I worked in a sheet metal shop. Which included power slip rolls and hydraulic press brakes. Power squaring shears, etc. So, I can't really help you there. Do you have enough work to warrant a "full time" slip roll or brake? Maybe you can rent some time in a nearby friendly sheet metal shop? Bring them some donuts.... :) Regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Easy clock [sherline] Posted by: "David Clark" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:22 pm ((PDT)) Hello group, I've posted a photo of a relatively quick and easy project that might be a good one for folks looking for an excuse to try cutting a few gears. http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/photos/view/9022?b=22 The idea came while doing some design studies for a clock. I built a spreadsheet to solve for all of the possible gear combinations to produce a motion train, given some input parameters. One of the unconventional solutions obtained, called for the minute and hour wheels to be the same, rather large size; 144 teeth each. As these would be the largest gears in the works, it occurred to me that you could tell the time from the position of the gears, if you could see through them. So, I made these 2 gears out of Lexan, with inlaid brass "hands". I wanted an open, sort of industrial look, one only a gearhead could love. The pivots are shoulder screws, everything is attached to a polished 1/8" aluminum plate. Power and timing is a 1 rpm AC gear motor. (mcmaster.com #3867K1) Some of the purists over at mlHorology will doubtless sneer at this, which is why I don't bother to post it there. Of course one could make an escapement for a purely mechanical clock. The pinions are 12 teeth, the "third wheel" 60, and the motion wheels 72. All are 32DP made with involute gear cutters. They could certainly also be made with a handmade cutter, either epicycloid or quasi-involute. Epicycloid or even triangular teeth should also work with lantern pinions. Setting the time is made possible by driving the first pinion through a one-way roller bearing (mcmaster.com #2489K1). This allows the minute wheel to be turned clockwise by hand. Endless variations on this design will suggest themselves. The mechanical details are fairly obvious, and I'm sure others would want to design their own, but I'll supply details on request. ------- Watch pinions [taigtools] Posted by: "mguysmith" mguysmithx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:10 am ((PDT)) Hello, I am trying to build a replacement balance staff for a pocket watch. the pinions have to be turned down to .006 inches. I am having a world of trouble taking off the last few thousandths. I am using the stock collets and cutting tools. I have done everything I can think of to maximize my accuracy but the last few thousandths keep eluding me. Does anyone have any suggestions? thanks ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com woodworker_88 Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT)) Work on this scale isn't easy. As the workpiece becomes more flexible, it will have a tendency to push away from the cutting tool, making the depth of cut variable or nonexistent. I would start with extremely sharp cutters, since a sharp cutter is going to lead to less forces on the work that would push the material away. I would make sure to always turn from less supported toward the more fully supported end (ie towards the headstock) and try to keep the forces axial (along the axis of the part) rather than radial (which would push the part away). Finally, there is a good chance you will need to make or buy a follow rest if you don't have one already. A follow rest is positioned directly behind the tool and supports the cutting forces. It is often used to machine slender shafts. Chances are that a purchased follow rest may not hold a 6 thou diameter part successfully. You may need to modify the fingers or other components to hold the parts well. My intuition would be to take a plate and make a small notch in the edge, roughly the diameter of your part. This could be made by filing, drilling a hole and cutting off the excess, whatever works. Then I would mount this plate vertically to the top slide of the lathe, with some means of adjusting it towards or away from the tool. The part would securely fit between the support and the tool. Hope this advice helps Michael ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 9:06 am ((PDT)) Mguysmith: I have cut many staffs and can make some suggestions but need more information. What type of lathe are you using? What type of Collets? Are your cutting tools HSS, Carbide, or other? Are you using a Graver or cross slide/Carriage/tool post? What material are you cutting the staff from? Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "Guy Smith" mguysmithx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 12:52 pm ((PDT)) I am working with a Taig lathe and using the stock tools, collets, etc. sold by Taig, HHS cutters mounted on the carriage/cross slide. I am cutting the staff out of A2 tool steel. Would love some insight from someone who has actually done this. thanks, Guy Smith ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "Rich Crook" richcrook9418x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:54 pm ((PDT)) I've done similar small turnings in plastic (very flexible at small dia's!). The trick I used - run a sharp cornered HSS tool, with the side *exactly* perpendicular to the spindle axis, and take a single deep cut, feeding very slowly, (so the part doesn't spring upwards) so that all the cutting is on the end "face" of the stock. The lack of a nose radius & the stiffness of the relatively thick stock ahead of the tool minimizes the tendency for it to be pushed off axis. Oh, and the cutting edge of the tool must be *very* smooth & *very* sharp. I've done .020-.030" dia acrylic plastic pins up to 2" long this way with a very smooth finish & very consistent diameter over their length. It'll take some experimenting, but it can be done. Rich ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 9:47 pm ((PDT)) Guy: First let me say don`t become discouraged. Even though a properly fitting/functioning balance staff is difficult to cut and not even attempted by many Watchmakers, it is very doable. Your first obstacle is that the Taig Lathe was never designed for this type of work. If you wish to use the Taig lathe for staff cutting I would suggest the following modifications. First I would suggest the WW Collet spindle. The standard Taig collets are not even close to being accurate enough for this type work nor available/ practical in the small sizes required. Second I would upgrade the headstock bearings preferably to grade three and Add/design a spindle preload nut. A preload nut is required to stablize the spindle in the bearings to achieve the accuracy/finish required for quality work of this size. Third the un-calibrated rack and gear carriage is neither controllable nor accurate/repeatable enough for micro machining. I would suggest that it be replaced with a quality accurate leadscrew along with larger clearly marked calibrated handwheels. (On both the carriage and cross slide.) Fourth because of the hard metals used to make watch staffs, I would suggest brazed carbide lathe tools. I use two tools. An AR-4 and an E-4. The "AR" is used for radius corners and the "E" tool is used for 90 degree corners. Quality tooling is everything for this work. One of the few tools that seem to work as they come from the factory are Micro-100 brazed tools. My personal procedure for cutting staffs is as follows. Assuming I have the dimensions, I first cut a blank the exact length/major diameter needed for the staff. The blank is then installed in the spindle collet with the lower pivot/rollor section extending out the front. The lower pivot and rollor table section is then machined and polished. Diameters and length`s are controlled by handwheel settings. Diameters are measured with a Starrett 1/2" Mic. Lengths are checked by comparision to the ends of pin gages under magnification. To successfully cut diameters the Lathe tool tip MUST BE CENTERED to the spindle. If not you WILL NOT be successful. At this point I leave the rollor area untapered. I then turn the staff around and mount it in the spindle on the rollor section with the CORRECT FITTING collet for accuracy. Then the stacking shoulder/hairspring shoulder/upper pivot is cut and polished. The staff is the turned back around and the rollor section is slightly tapered if required and the rollor table is test fitted. While this is not every detail, I think this should give you the general idea. I would suggest that you first perfect your procedure on brass or 12L14 steel and then move to the harder staff materials. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "James Eckman" ronin_engineerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 4:18 am ((PDT)) > Hello, I am trying to build a replacement balance staff for a pocket > watch. the pinions have to be turned down to .006 inches. I am > having a world of trouble taking off the last few thousandths,I am > using the stock collets and cutting tools. I have done everythig I can > think of to maximize my accuracy but the last few thousandth keep > eluding me. does anyone have any suggestions? When you say you are using the stock collets, I'm assuming you are taking a larger size and reducing it? As others have mentioned you may need a follower rest and you may want to look into getting the WW headstock for smaller sizes of collets or maybe use the new ER collet holder. Also you should be using the compound for feeding the work, the carriage wheel is too coarse. Many years ago, the Home Shop Machinist carried a series of articles on tooling up a Taig lathe as a watchmakers lathe, it would make a good one. I'm not sure nowadays if you really need to upgrade the bearings since modern ball bearings are much better than they were 30+ years ago. > Posted by: "n2562001" > First let me say don`t become discouraged. Even though a > properly fitting/functioning balance staff is difficult to cut and > not even attempted by many Watchmakers it is very doable. Your > first obstacle is that the Taig Lathe was never designed for this > type of work. I think this was considered in the original design, with the WW collets and a hand graver, it's certainly a match for the older watch specific lathes, except maybe the bearings. You need to build a fair number of accessories though. > Second I would upgrade the headstock bearings preferably to grade > three and Add/design a spindle preload nut. A preload nut is > required to stablize the spindle in the bearings to achieve the > accuracy/finish required for quality work of this size. I know you do much finer work than I do, have you done this? I know recently that Taig has changed the spindle design, it may make this easier to do. Jim ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 7:20 am ((PDT)) Jim: Since part of your post was on my comments I will respond. Cutting a Watch Balance Staff is kind of like explaining a Harley Davidson or a 60`s English Roadster. It's difficult to understand unless you try it. Cutting a staff that looks like a staff is one thing, but cutting a staff that fits and functions properly is a whole other ball game. The stock Taig lathe Bearings with no Preload nut will certainly cut what looks like a staff. However proper fit and function will require many hours of lapping and polishing because of poor metal finish and extra metal left so you will not be under sized. While of course not impossible, you soon realize the meaning of the word "Practical" The compound slides for small lathes such as Taig, Sherline etc. are too small to be stable, accurate and repeatable enough for practical staff cutting. In fact this also holds true for many of the compound slides typically used on jewelers lathes. On the other hand, the larger Carriage assembly is stable and repeatable enough. When cutting Staffs the work piece Blank seldom extends out in front of the collet more than about .100". The typical .005" pivot is rarely longer than .025". Under these conditions a follow rest is neither practical, required or desirable. Also since the work piece is close to the nose of the collet, collet systems such as ER are difficult to work around because of the large closing nut. Not to mention the many angles you must view/ measure/fit your work. The new one piece Taig headstock is certainly more stable than the old two piece affair. However even though the spindle has a nut, it does not function as a preload nut. Preload could be accomplished by removing the bearing spacer and using a locking nut as a preload nut. My comments are based on personal experience cutting staffs with many brands and types of Lathes as well as teaching seminars on staff cutting. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "Guy Smith" mguysmithx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:38 pm ((PDT)) Mr. Kieffer: Thank you for your comments. I agree you are probably right about it not being the best choice of lathe for the job; fortunately I am not trying to make any money out of this project, just personal pleasure, so while it may take longer and require more work it greatly reduces the headache of trying to explain to the wife why I need to buy yet another expensive chunk of hardware. Also you did clear up some confusion for me regarding the follower; I was trying to figure out how to make that work when the cutter is significantly wider than the pinion. Keep the posts coming and maybe someday soon I can get this watch ticking again. ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "jsedds" jseddsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:50 pm ((PDT)) Jerry K, it's good to hear you weigh in on this. I'm sure you don't remember me but you and I had a thread on the NAWCC board about lathes for watch and clock work. Jim you need to listen to Jerry because he knows what he is talking about. You are pushing the envelope on the Taig's abilities and believe me I am a huge Taig fan. I do all my clock work, repairs and fabrication, with my Taig. I have also used a watchmaker's lathe using hand held gravers resting on a "T rest." The Taig may be workable for a pocket watch staff but no way accurate enough for wristwatch work. The runout on my Taig is about 2-3 10,000ths (I measured it). You may need to use a T rest and hand graver. I modified the woodworkers rest Taig makes to use it as a T rest. I expect that the Taig cross slide is not accurate enough to make the final cuts (only my guess). Also you really should get the WW collet headstock Taig makes. It's faster and easier than the Taig collets. Also you could get this staff made for you by qualified and experienced watch/ clock repair people. Jim if you have an interest in clock/watch work I would strongly recommend joining the NAWCC and taking some of their Field suitcase workshops. I have taken all the clock courses and have learned so much and had a ball doing them. Anyway that's my 2 cents. Sincerely, John ------- Re: Watch pinions Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 4:24 pm ((PDT)) John: Thank you for the vote of confidence. However you may not realize what you got yourself into. You should hear what my neighbors and others say about my suggestions. I do not recall our exact exchange but then again I can`t remember what happened this morning. Also thank you for suggesting that those interested join the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors. I can`t believe I forgot to mention that. Jerry Kieffer ------- lots of interesting projects [Prints_and_Plans] Posted by: "rick" rgbai42x~xxyahoo.ca Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 1:33 pm ((PST)) http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6969 ------- Re: Duplicator [sherline] Posted by: "Ron Ginger" rongingerx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:07 pm ((PST)) > I am in need of a number of brass stanchions. > Has anyone used the duplicator found at this URL? > http://vanda- > layindustries.com/html/duplicator.html > Also, I am in need of a simulated brick floor, for my steam > plant model. Any ideas? I made a simple duplicator, something like the one you referred to. But mine is simply a hand held block of aluminum, about 1" on a side. It has 2 drilled holes, one set so when the block is on the mill table the hole is exactly on center of the lathe. The other is near the bottom, about 1/4" above the table. Both holes hold round tools, both tools ground to the same point angle, about like you would sharpen a pencil. The top one is ground flat on top to make it a lathe tool, the bottom one is left full round. Both must be the same shape. A template is held to the table with the T-slot screws, the block is used freehand, resting on the table and pushed up to the work. The lower point hits the template and determines where the cutter can go. As to the brick surface, how about getting a scrap of Corian, the counter top material. Cabinet shops have offered to pay me to haul away the sink cutout scraps. They make some that looks like granite or marble. Mill lines in it to make the brick, or tile, pattern. The stuff cuts and sands beautifully. I've made signs out of it, filling the engraved letters with black epoxy. One of my signs shows in a couple of recent Cabin Fever photos of my traction engine. Many engine house floors were granite or other stone. ron ginger ------- Re: duplicator Posted by: "ifly14mz" fgotox~xxemployees.org Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:07 pm ((PST)) Hmm, you probably will end up painting this but how about real miniature bricks? There are 2 sizes apparently, the larger one is discontinued, but probably only by Tower Hobbies. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPCE5&P=7 http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPCE4&P=7 Plastruct sell plastic brick sheets in various scales http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0097p? MANUFACTURER=PLS&FVSEARCH=BRICK Good luck! ------- Re: Small/Tiny engines [LittleEngines] Posted by: "Carl Carlsen" kd7bfnx~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:16 am ((PDT)) There are free plans available all over the place ... all one has to do is look ... but it sure helps to know "where". Bob Shores has some small engines and plans: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BobShoresEngines/ There are several Elmer's Engines sites ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elmers_Engines_1/?yguid=118457126 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elmers_Engines_2/?yguid=118457126 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elmers_Engines_3/?yguid=118457126 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elmers_Engines_4/?yguid=118457126 There are a bunch of plans on this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/files/ and there are several Little engine groups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines1/?yguid=118457126 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines2/?yguid=118457126 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines3/?yguid=118457126 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines4/?yguid=118457126 Do you know about the FILES and PHOTO sections of these groups? Some of the above groups are crammed with engine plans. How about the Live Steam groups? Not everything in steam has to be a TRAIN! Take a look at the Live Steam groups. I'm sure they too have plans in their FILES sections? There are lots of "specialty" groups as well. Probably a little too far ahead of you at this point? The R&R Engine group for example "specializes" in Radial and Rotary Engines ... and there are many others. I could be wrong, but I think you will find that the really "Micro engines" have been scaled down by the builder. Unless you can find someone who has already done it and is willing to share their efforts, I think you may need to hit the drawing board? Here are a few photos of 3 engines built by Jim Moyer of eastern Washington as displayed at GEARS 2006 and 2007. Click on this one and then click NEXT to view the rest. Feel free to look around the website .... get back to the main gallery and take a look around if you wish. Don't miss the narrative at the bottom of each photo. http://www.pbase.com/captain_carl/image/67695781/medium Carl ------- Re: Small/Tiny engines Posted by: "Jan Ridders" riddersjanx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:29 pm ((PDT)) Hello, I can offer you drawing plans for small engines: Stirlings, Flame-eaters and Internal Combustion engines. All according to my own designs. You can make all of them with standard lathing and milling from standard materials. See my web site: http://heetgasmodelbouw.ridders.nu Greetings from Holland, Jan Ridders ------- Quick Gratification [MyMyford] Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Tue Jul 8, 2008 1:31 pm ((PDT)) Day 4 of closeting myself in the basement with the new lathe, wife at cottage and therefore no Evil Eye. I have just made a large female centre inspired from an ME article from the 1920s, time required 40 minutes. This is a 2-MT version of a 1-MT item I have used a lot for a few years. Take a Groz brand 1 inch blank 2-MT arbor for $5.99 or thereabouts. Set in spindle and centre drill deep. Set over the top slide and bore a 60 degree cone inside. Chamfer sharp edges as always. No need to case harden. It would porobably distort and you can simply skim it true, like a soft male centre, when it wears. Two main uses. It can guide tooling being hand-fed axially, which is not centre-popped for use on a male centre. I have never found the need however. More useful is quick centring of rod up to 3/4" dia. in the three-point steady, with a view towards centre-drilling etc. a. Head end of rod goes in three-jaw or collet. b. Female centre goes in tailstock. c. Bring up the female centre to capture the tail end of the rod, and adjust the jaws of the steady. NOTE: The female steady is NOT used with spinning work, just for holding while the steady is set. If the rod has a nice faced end, the 60 degree cone will hold it axial enough for you to get the steady set to a thou or less cencentric error. Withdraw the the tailstock and machine the rod as necessary. d. If the end of the rod is burred or rough, the female centre will probably centre it enough to allow you to withdraw the tailstock and face the end of the rod flat, leaving little or no pip. e. Following (d), centre the faced end of the rod in the cone as before, re-adjust the steady, and withdraw tailstock and machine the rod. I too can spend time clocking (etc.) a rod perfectly axial in the steady, and I will if it has to run true on the outside. Usually however we plan to skim the rod true especially since only ground rod is really round, smooth, and straight. This female centre is much quicker and more accurate than using a bell punch and hoping for the best, and even better than the combo square and scriber. It has definitely saved time on the job at hand: a 13" long by 3/4" dia. Myford-dimensioned boring bar. The female centre also makes a Chinese repro steady much easier to use by compensating for the fact that the brass jaws are terribly loose in their slots. When I have milled up steel and bronze jaws the cheap steady will be very serviceable. As a said, they should be considered kits. Now to clean up pizza and beer evidence before wife is back... aw ------- Re: Quick Gratification Posted by: "Bob Minchin" bob.minchinx~xxntlworld.com Date: Tue Jul 8, 2008 1:41 pm ((PDT)) mmm! I like that idea. Must put that on the round-2-it list. Won't get a mt2 blank for that sort of money here in UK. I tend to get set up for MT cutting and make a batch of them. Bob ------- Re: Quick Gratification Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Tue Jul 8, 2008 2:28 pm ((PDT)) Can't claim originality but can say they're quick to make and damn handy for centring with the steady. I am fortunate to have access to a complete collection of the Model Engineer at the Ottawa science & tech museum. The pre-1940 volumes, especially, are packed with excellent tooling projects. Most inspirational. Anyway, the Groz taper blanks are nicely finished and screwed for a drawbar, and the 1 inch business end is also finely turned, so one or two is handy to have around for small but accurate tooling. They would take a while to manufacture to the same standard. The ones I have here are finished so well they look ground. The tapers are dead on. Unfortunately what costs a dollar in Canada here often costs a pound in the UK, so yes there is good economic reason to turn up a batch. This is my plan too. I must try out the taper attachment and in any case it would be good to have a supply made from different sized rod. Andrew ------- Re: Quick Gratification Posted by: "tr0up" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Tue Jul 8, 2008 11:57 pm ((PDT)) Another use for a female centre is to alleviate the misalignment when turning between centres with the tailstock set over to provide a taper. For any angle more than the merest amount (such as you might apply when making a press-fit mandrel) it's not ideal to use conventional centres for support. Ball centres take care of the misaligment inherent to the setup, but are rare and spendy. Female centres, in conjunction with (hardened)small bearing balls trapped between them and conventional centre recesses in the workpiece, are a perfectly acceptable substitute, given that you're not often hogging off metal when turning shallow tapers. (It's usual to rough the workpiece, parallel, beforehand) I've got around this on the rare occasions I use offset taper turning by drilling centre recesses into stubs of MS held in the tailstock chuck and the 3 jaw respectively (if done immediately before needed and not disturbed, they're plenty accurate) but female centres would be classier. One advantage of the loose ball method is it makes the 'gauge length' of the taper very easy to measure: measure longways over the balls when inserted into the workpiece recesses, and subtract one ball diameter. Apply this as the 'adjacent' and the offset as the 'opposite' to the tan (trig) formula to return half the included angle in degrees. If turning multiple items, you'll need to adjust the recess depths so the "across ball" dimensions are maintained similar. Given the other uses mentioned in this thread, I might just put the proper female centre on my 'to do' list. ------- Re: Quick Gratification, Now Grinding Centres Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Wed Jul 9, 2008 6:36 am ((PDT)) Now I'm thinking the same too, which implies having a big hardened centre. Myford sell a female centre but it is small and costly. The widely available Groz brand Pakistani 2-MT blanks are claimed to have hardened and ground taper. There is SOME truth to this. There must be a little carbon in the steel because, if you nick the backside of the taper with a file, the metal is pretty tough but not hard. Probably evidence of slight induction hardening. However I doubt the business end can be hardened sufficiently for use as a working centre. The idea of making a large hardened centre from tool steel, in one piece, is somewhat frightening. You can make a male centre this way and harden just the tip. There is no measurable distortion. A BIG female centre accepting 3/4" inside is another matter. I'm inclined to bore a cone into a silver steel sleeve that's a close fit on the MT arbor. Then remove, harden and temper, and re-attach with a fixing screw. If this isn't 100% concentric, then grind true. You can make a toolpost grinder from a block of aluminium or steel bolted to the top-slide, drilled (and maybe) bored 1 inch through on the lathe centres, then split with a saw for a clamping screw. Into the hole goes a Foredom flex-shaft handpiece with a little grinding bit. Cover the bed with tinfoil and several very light passes will true the centre. Works on other shapes, anyway. Quick to bodge up. I am lucky - My wife is a goldsmith so I appropriate the Foredom which hangs over my bench for the odd time when I help her with strange jobs requiring engineering type solutions. The Number 30 and 80 handpieces are excellent for precision lathe grinding and there is no drive problem. Just hang the motor over the lathe. Also vastly better than a Dremel or Proxxon etc. for most bench applications. I regularly see used Foredoms for under $100, and a new one is an ideal Christmas present from the wife. Absolutely avoid the Chinese copies now being sold by Grobet USA. Cheap in price and cheap in quality. We received one and sent it back. The real thing is precision and is good for thousands of hours. Andrew Webster ------- Re: Quick Gratification, Now Grinding Centres Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Wed Jul 9, 2008 6:51 am ((PDT)) Errata, not psychosis, is why I'm replying to myself. I described a grinding head I made for another lathe with a slotted toolpost. For a Myford, simply drill a vertical hole in the metal block you are using, so it fits the English pattern toolpost. A much better arrangement than what I built for the other machine. It can be swivelled by loosening the toolpost nut. This sinle point fixing implies that, when I make such a thing for the Myford, I shall use aluminium and take it easy when doing the drilling. aw ------- Re: Just a quick hello [MyMyford at Yahoo] USING SCRAP CAR BRAKE DISKS Posted by: "tr0up" a.troupx~xxemail.com Date: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:58 pm ((PDT)) Isn't it magical, to take a rough, generic piece of material and fashion something so accurate and useful? After spending most of my life doing it, I still find the same thrill. I hope you'll forgive me using your message to introduce an irrelevant subject, but I've just discovered ventilated brake disks as raw material for making useful things, like backplates, special purpose faceplates, mounting flanges, swivel bases for machine vices, etc. I even bolted one to the table of a mill recently in order to pick it up with a forklift. They're available for free in a great variety of configurations and sizes, and while they look pretty ugly when rescued from a scrap bin, the material is very high quality, there's usually plenty of thickness left, and the unique sandwich structure makes them light and yet strong. Admittedly they're a bit beyond the Myford, but it's a thrill to see something beautiful and useful emerge from them. A useful portion of what is thrown away by engineering establishments can be re-purposed, and apart from anything, it's a great way to cut one's teeth without huge outlay. ------- Re: Just a quick hello Posted by: "Francois CAU" Francois.CAUx~xxst.com Date: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:20 am ((PDT)) They can also make nice feet for lamps ! ;-) http://www.flickr.com/photos/dham2008/2909991301/ ------- My first engine [barstockengines] Posted by: "Les V" rocketcaverx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:22 am ((PST)) Ok, it's not much to look at, but it runs. And on real steam no less. Take a look at a couple videos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOLdvg6UJGk and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s19cMcJDroA I made these videos for a few friends scattered across the country; thought I would share with you folks too. The engine is a conglomeration of ideas from various sources, including an old book, a few other web sites I stumbled across, as well as my own sick and twisted imagination, so I can't claim it's my own design. It cost me almost nothing to build, the only thing I had to buy was the can of Sterno. That's me, cheap! Anyway it was a pleasant way to pass a couple of afternoons. Please excuse the video production. I worked in radio for over 20 years, but never got into television, so the camera work might leave a bit to be desired. But it was fun, and that's the point, right? ------- Re: (WANTED) SCROLL SAW PLANS & CRAFT PLANS [Prints_and_Plans] Posted by: "Chris (CB)" boyerclx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:33 am ((PST)) > Does anyone have plans for a weather vane? I would like to make one > for my wife's chicken coop. For stuff like this that doesn't produce much with your favorite search engine I turn to fleebay. At minimum the pics and descriptions can give some basic ideas for shapes and sizes. Sometimes you can find a parts listing or even diagram to see how they are put together. Then with some basic size information it's a matter of deciding on what form you want and start to sketch. Cardboard can usually be had cheap enough to play model maker with. ------- NOTE TO FILE: Your local library is often a source of plans buried in the craft books and magazines. For weathervanes, my neighbourhood is a rich source of inspiration. See an interesting one while walking or driving? Then just knock on the door and chances are good that the flattered homeowner will let you look at it closer. Bonus -- you might even find the original maker at home and meet a new good-buddy. When browsing at yard sales and craft fairs, be sure to take along your digital camera and pen and notebook and tape measure. Then you can easily record a good idea. Sometimes you might encounter a hostile reaction to your photographing stuff that is for sale. While outright lying is not particularly right, it would be kinda true to say you want to take a picture home to study whether that design would fit with your/your spouse's decor or colour scheme or available space. In life you can blame a lot of things on your spouse to get out of awkward situations. (There is a saying that everyone needs a spouse because you cannot blame everything on the government ;-) I said "digital camera" because taking reference pictures costs nothing (assuming you don't need to print a copy); consequently you will take lots of reference pictures. And be sure to read the help file here called "ACME Digital Photography Primer" for lots of picture-taking tips and how-to's. ------- Re: (WANTED) SCROLL SAW PLANS & CRAFT PLANS Posted by: "kirksan1" kirksan1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:56 pm ((PST)) A regular flatbed scanner is also a great way to copy an existing part when (for whatever reason) it's not feasible to simply trace around the outside onto a piece of paper. Scan the item, save the file as a .jpeg or .bmp, and you can import the picture into many computer programs such as Paint, Adobe, Solid Works, etc. You can then use the computer to trace the geometry you are interested in or even to change critical dimensions to fit your applications. Print out your shape for use as a scroll saw pattern or to check fit a piece into an odd shaped cavity. If you have the right computer tools you can also generate CNC/CAM files to match all kinds of parts and hole patterns. ------- First Hemingway kit ? [MyMyford] Posted by: "Eddy Fontaine" eddy.fontainex~xxpandora.be Date: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:53 pm ((PST)) Hi, A question for those who have some experience with hemingway kits. What would be a right kit to start with? I have a ML7, a pillar drill machine, a vertical milling holder for the lathe, some mills and ... no milling experience ;-) i am considering the rear tool post, or the scribing block ...or something else ? ...and later on the sensitive knurling tool i hope :-) I cannot figure out the difficulties in fact. Thanks, Eddy ------- Re: First Hemingway kit ? Posted by: "Norman Atkinson" ravensworth2674x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:00 am ((PST)) Morning Eddie! I'm glad to find that you want to start with what is achievable- and not out on some obscure branch. Rant over -- to answer the question now! Most of the Hemingway Kits are built around George Thomas's work and his Model Engineers Workshop Manual in particular. All are aimed at the Myfords as you know. It all depends on your experience where you start. Unquestionably, you will find his Rear Parting Tool so useful. There is a lot of demanding work in it but you will find the book gives 'blow by blow' help. Again, his tool height gauge is always useful. It will used everyday. Again, I would start making the 'holding devices' to hold your bits down on the saddle and vertical slide. You will not get any way without a never ending selection of holders. Again, you will want to, or need to have a selection of boring gear. As you will see in the book that it is 'boring stuff' in more ways than one. Nevertheless, the ability to make holes is never ending. Finally (other people should add or criticise) you will need something to keep your tools sharp. That, my friend, is a subject in itself. Get the book -- make the simple things carefully. One tool will help to make another and your experience and skill will develop. Have fun Norman ------- Re: First Hemingway kit ? Posted by: "Eddy Fontaine" eddy.fontainex~xxpandora.be Date: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:20 am ((PST)) Hi Norman, Thank you for your very 'enthusiastic' reply ! I guess it will be a matter of try and learn anyway... I have the GH Thomas's book already, i am just waiting some kind of 'kick' ! :-) Cheers, Eddy ------- Re: First Hemingway kit ? Posted by: "Don Recardo" donrecardox~xxblueyonder.co.uk Date: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:48 am ((PST)) Hi Eddy. The first Hemmingway kit I tried was the boring bar kit which was a nice easy start. Following that I then used the boring bar I had made to make up the Slotting tool kit. That was a straight forward kit to build and is great for cutting slots in pulleys and gears to take a keyway. I then got adventurous and built the ball turning tool which involved cutting dovetail slots. I then used the ball cutting tool to make a fancy handle for the rear mounted tool post kit. I have always found the Hemmingway kits to be great, The instructions are easy to follow and they come with ample metal stock and even the fasteners and odds and ends that you will need . I have no connection with Hemingways except as a very satisfied cutomer. Don ------- Building a mini lathe [MyMyford] Posted by: "timperrin97" perrti02x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:06 am ((PST)) Not really sure this is the idea of this group but I'll give it a go anyway. I am thinking of building a really small lathe (partly for the hell of it but also because I am interested in clock making and I think the Myford may be a little large for some things). Anyway, my plan was to have two parallel round bars for the carriage to run on and I was wondering what would be a suitable material to use for these parts. They need to be resistant to wear but also machinable on an ML7. ------- OT- Building a mini lathe Posted by: "Roman Gargulak" romanx~xxcncwings.com Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:27 am ((PST)) Tim, Small UNIMAT SL/DB use round bars for bed as well as cross slide. Not sure what size of the machine you have in mind, UNIMAT is about 300mm long and uses 12mm for bed and 8mm diameter for cross slide. I just replaced bed bars with longer ones since I am adapting it for Electronic Lead Screw: I used oil hardening tool steel bars (O1 grade) in un-hardened state. They are ground to size, easily machinable with HSS tools yet hard enough to wear slowly, stiffness is comparable to the original bars. I can post some pictures if you are interested. Cheers, Roman ------- Re: Building a mini lathe Posted by: "Norman Atkinson" ravensworth2674x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:27 am ((PST)) At the risk of censure, Martin Cleeve built one on a ML7 in the 1950's. At a risk of criticism, L C Mason wrote 'Building the Small lathe' and it was published by Tee. It may be re-printed so check. It doesn't have rods but why not build the Brooks tool and cutter grinder which is essentially 2 rods at right angles to 2 rods and only one weld. If you would like to write to me at normanx~xxn-atkinson.wanadoo.co.uk( not this daft other address) I will down load it. Here Paul Bache, has split up a lot of bits which I had sent him. Interested? Remember that there is not a fat lot of difference between a watchmaker's lathe and a t&c. More flak?????? Cheers Norm ------- Re: Building a mini lathe Posted by: "timperrin97" perrti02x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:34 am ((PST)) The Unimat SL was actually my inspiration along with the Bonelle T&C Grinder. Where would I be able to get Oil Hardening Tool Steel from? and at what sort of price? Would there be any sense in using slightly thicker bars or will this just add to the weight and cost? ------- Re: Building a mini lathe Posted by: "Tim Ostley" Tim.Ostleyx~xxgooglemail.com Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:52 am ((PST)) Dear Tim, I too am sketching around a small lathe. I have the Mason book and it is very interesting, using standard MS stock sections to make everything. I picked up my copy from ebay. It is well worth getting and reading for ideas - even if you don't like the approach he takes. My conundrum at the moment is the headstock. I want to include backgear (a la Mason) and like the idea of placing the drive pulley between two bearings rather than off the back end of the mandrel (like the Unimat 3 which I already have). Interestingly the headstock of the Unimat 3 (the original Austrian version, not the Chinese one) is alloy sitting on top of a cast iron bed. Use of aluminium alloy in places opens up a lot of possibilities and it is also worth reading Dave Gingery's book Building a Lathe from scrap (part of a very interesting series). Feel free to email off list if you would like to continue the discussion on this topic. Best Regards Tim (another one....) ------- Re: Building a mini lathe Posted by: "Roman Gargulak" romanx~xxcncwings.com Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:10 am ((PST)) Tim: Where are you located? O1, silver steel, drill rod...these are all very similar in composition and properties, they are all center-less ground finish. Any steel supplier should be able to get it for you. I got mine from local Metal Supermarkets store(Ottawa, Canada). I paid around $16 CAN for one 36" long 12mm O1 bar. That was long enough to make two extended way rods and D-bit reamer to ream holes in stepper motor mounting plate. BTW, here is nice picture gallery of Gingery lathe build: Cheers, Roman ------- Re: Building a mini lathe Posted by: "timperrin97" perrti02x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:31 am ((PST)) I am in sunny Manchester (in England). I will have a look at some of the books mentioned. Will post more once I get started. ------- Re: Building a mini lathe Posted by: "John Quirke" jjquirkex~xxeircom.net Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:59 am ((PST)) Hi. Saw a nice little home lathe made some years ago using 2 front Escort [car] shock absorber rods which are hard chromed and used 4 of the top bushings as bearings on either side of the carriage and the carriage moved almost without friction. The tailstock used 4 more. He worked in a car scrap yard and it cost him nothing and boy was it smooth. Yours in the workshop John ------- Re: Building a mini lathe Posted by: "Frank Chadwick" fr4nk.chadwickx~xxtiscali.co.uk Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:06 pm ((PST)) Tim, I have been a keen amateur clock repairer for over 40 years, my favourite being the 30 hour longcase. Although I have never built a clock from scratch I have made most of the relevant parts over that time. Before building a smaller lathe, have you made a depthing tool, a Jacot tool and a wheel cutting engine? You may find it more useful to tackle these first. There is very little you will be able to do on your smaller lathe that you can't already do on your Myford. Delicate jobs you can mount between centres, power by hand with a bow and cut with a graver on a T rest. These are the traditional clockmaking techniques. If you have reservations on the grounds of accuracy, invest in a set of collets. If you see yourself turning staffs for platform balances then get a watchmakers lathe. By all means contact me off list if you want to take me up on any points as I'm afraid we're straying from things Myford. Frank C. ------- Re: Building a mini lathe Posted by: "Cliff Coggin" clifford.cogginx~xxvirgin.net Date: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:54 am ((PST)) Frank is absolutely right. If you have one lathe already, you don't need another, no matter how much you may want one. A depthing tool, a milling spindle, and a rotary table will be of more use to you for making clocks. (I wish I had been given this advice when starting my clock repair business. I bought three lathes before my first depthing tool.) Cliff Coggin Kent, UK ------- First "Production" Project [sherline] Posted by: "jptrueblood" jptruebloodx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:41 am ((PST)) Got my Sherline lathe about 6 months ago, and have been trying to get a feel for it's capabilities... and have only thrown it out the window twice. Does anyone know how that will affect accuracy/runout (I have noticed a .400" difference)? Anyway, after many practice tests, I decided to try a fairly simple project (or so I thought). I have a very old cast iron bench grinder. The grinder has a 5/8 spindle with what appears (to a novice anyway) to be steel bushing. The bushings and spindle are worn, as you can imagine. I wanted to update/replace the bushing and spindle. Because of the clearance (ie thin walls) I decided to go with needle roller bearing in place of the bushing. In addition, I was looking to cut my own spindle(and that is where it became not so simple). What type of metal (steel) would best suit a spindle for roller bearing? Does the finish on the spindle need to be ground smooth? Does the spindle need to be hardened? I saw McMaster had some precision ground, hardened "drive shafts" that looked promising. However I will need to make "cuts" to each end of the spindle to accommodate for the grinding wheels and threads for the lock nuts. Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff ------- Re: First "Production" Project Posted by: "Keith Green" ksggx~xxtelus.net Date: Mon Mar 2, 2009 6:31 am ((PST)) Probably start with something simpler. The spindle should be hardened to run on roller/needle bearings. Also ground. Needle bearings are more of a low-speed application, traditionally. It might be easier to just re-build the thing to stock. It's lasted this long... Keith ------- Re: Hi everybody [shopbuilttools] Posted by: "Paul" pfrederick1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Mar 8, 2009 4:53 am ((PDT)) "wrdptrsn" wrote: > I'm looking to improve my ability in making shop tools. Me too! Sometimes I even remake, or modify ones I've already made. That in fact is the project I am currently working on. Adding to one of my homemade grinder tool rests. These here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shopbuilttools/photos/al bum/1884765662/pic/11994852/view This may be the best part of shop built tools for me. I can always go back and revisit old projects with updates. So I never really worry about how badly things may turn out the first couple of times around. I made it, so I can always improve on it too, hopefully. Paul ------- Re: Bandsaw Plans [shopbuilttools] Posted by: "holtdoa" rjhanbyx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:01 am ((PDT)) "perry.langbein" wrote: > I'm looking for detailed plans to build a homemade bandsaw. Does > anybody have any ideas? Motherearth news has one online http://www.motherearthnews.com/Modern-Homesteading/1983-11-01/A-100-In dustrial-Quality-Band-Saw.aspx I was thinking of trying to use that design to build a resaw bandsaw (using the Hitachi Resaw blades). ------- Re: Bandsaw Plans Posted by: "brianrobert.wood" brianrobertwoodx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:59 pm ((PDT)) On the Vintage Projects site there are free plans for two bandsaws, a wooden one, and one made with old car parts and plumbing pipes. Here is a link to their links page; http://www.vintageprojects.com/machine-power-tools.html They have lots of fascinating stuff there, which "one day" I am going to build. Brian in Brazil ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following tool idea is a great small welding project. And the tool has many uses beyond just removing a stuck Woodruff key. ------- Re: Removing a stuck Woodruff key [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.com Date: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:36 am ((PDT)) On Wednesday 29 April 2009 woweniii wrote: > The stepped pulley on my 12" Atlas lathe came loose. I removed the inside 2 step pulley and 3/4" shaft. I tapped, pulled, heated and used WD40 on the stuck key. Nothing budges the key but it it now buggered up and has to come out. Any suggestions? I am thinking of filing it down flush and then trying to tap it out again. I do not have a woodruff key milling bit, to re-do the slot; but I guess I could get one. Boy don't you just hate it when 30 year old parts get stuck. < I made up a slide hammer with a smallish ViseGrip on one end for parts like that. Image here: http://www.kepler-eng.com/images/slide_grip1.jpg Kind of cheesy, but works well - just try to set it up so the pull is inline with the gripping jaws. ------- A "Screwless" vise [taigtools] Posted by: "Dean Williams" deanofidx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri May 8, 2009 10:15 am ((PDT)) Hello all; I built a little screwless vise for my mill. There is a page with construction pictures here: http://tinyurl.com/r7fvzu Just in case someone wants to check it out. Dean http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html http://tinyurl.com/5hgskb ------- Re: Taper attachment - Atlas/Craftsman 618 [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "angelo4967" angelo4967x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:52 pm ((PDT)) This link has the same taper attachment [for a lathe] that's much better, plus a couple of dozen more great projects. http://www.metalwebnews.com/mr-plans.html Angelo ------- Quick steady [myfordlathesx~xxyahoogroups.com][Note: This is a new group.] Posted by: "John" johnx~xxstevenson-engineers.co.uk Date: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:39 pm ((PDT)) Not to take anything away from Brian's post about attachments, it jogged my mind about a steady I started a couple of years ago, but first a bit of history. Some while ago I needed to support a long large 10" diameter roller in my big lathe to machine the end. Only problem was my steady could only handle about 5" in diameter. As this was a rush job I drew a quick design up for a steady that would be made out of four 10mm thick laser cut plates. The DXF file was sent to the laser cutters and the following day the pieces were bolted together with no machining other than cleaning up the separate pieces. I won't put pictures here because it's not relevant to this group. However later on I thought that perhaps the same idea could be used on smaller machines so I adopted the Myford as a test bed. In the Photo section under the John S folder I have placed 4 pictures called Qsteady 1 to 4. These show the build up of the three layers of 8mm steel to form the steady, the smaller holes are for rivits and the fingers were made to be either tipped with bronze or even have a ball race fitted. This design allows a far greater size than any of the other designs I have seen. This 'project' is basically a case of 'checkbook engineering' in that there is virtually no machining to be done. John S. ------- A treatise on steadies. [myfordlathesx~xxyahoogroups.com] Posted by: "John" johnx~xxstevenson-engineers.co.uk Date: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:43 pm ((PDT)) This isn't the be all and end all of steadies, there are many ways to achieve the same aims, this is just what I have to use at this moment in time and is posted just to further ideas. I am of the opinion that there has never been a steady for all uses, this is further enhanced by the different ones I have to do a different job, in some posts you can see from example picture why a certain design just won't work. Again I'm not forcing my views on anyone just offering an across the board idea on steadies. Generic steady as supplied with my small TOS lathe, often copied and works well for general work. One point to note is the keep plate that fastens it down; it's been chamfered on both ends so it can swing into position without having to remove the bolt and thread it up from underneath. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost1.jpg Generic steady as supplied as standard on my large TOS, again the keep plate has been reworked. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost2.jpg This steady is fitted with hardened steel pads as opposed to bronze, sounds an unusual combination but it does work and doesn't unduly mark the work. These are how they are at present after 25 years work. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost3.jpg This is a large prefabricated steady I made for the big TOS to take over from the standard one. Sorry it's a bit shaky as I was trying to hold the measure at the same time. It's 22" side to side and will hold 16" diameter. Screws are 24mm all thread with nuts pinned to the top and brass pads. It was a bit of a rush job as I needed it for some large rollers. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost4.jpg Details of one hinge, there are 8 plates, 4 top, 4 bottom each set has been laser cut identically from 10mm steel plate, then 2 plates on each have had the ears cut off [ ouch ! ] to form the hinges. The bed profile has also been laser cut in and only needed dressing with a file to fit the bed well. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost5.jpg Opposite hinge point. the whole assembly is held together with a series of countersunk Allen screws. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost6.jpg This is a cathead I made for both the small TOS and the CVA; it's in two parts and only requires a change of base to fit both machines. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost7.jpg Since this picture was taken the sleeve has had two more holes drilled and tapped at 120 degree to one of the existing screws. This allows it to hold square, hex octagonal and irregular shaped work. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost8.jpg View from the other side to show mounting. The cat head can be secured either way depending on what it has to grip. To line up you slack the two cap head screws, grip the inner of the sleeve in the 3 jaw chuck and wind the jaws out to grip then finally tighten the two caphead bolts. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost9.jpg This steady came off an old Herbert lathe and had the vee moved over on the base to line up with centre and it also has lumps milled off the side to allow the ears of the saddle to pass. This takes over from the small generic standard steady that came with the lathe. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost10.jpg Loose cathead similar to the one in picture 7 but having 2 sets of screws and no bearing. It's designed to be fitted to something like a welded shaft, or square and then run in a standard steady as such:- Again since this picture was taken it's had the extra holes drill for hexagon work. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost11.jpg View from the other side. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost12.jpg Another steady for the small TOS, this time off a Colchester. I modified this as it's a roller steady and if you use a piece of cardboard as a washer on the tool side it stop chips getting jammed under the rollers. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost13.jpg Close up view of the rollers and the conversion plate needed to get it to centre height. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost14.jpg Now the next 4 pics, show what I mean about there never being a steady for all jobs. This is the standard steady for my CVA which is a clone of a 10EE. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost15.jpg Typical job, having to support a small armature to work on the drive end. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost16.jpg Problem is the fan is on the steady but the fingers are not reaching the end of the shaft. Even with centrally spaced fingers this isn't going to happen. In this case the steady can't turn round as it relies on one vee on the rear shear to locate it and that's common to many lathes. The answer is to reverse the steady if possible, fine on something like a Myford with 2 flat shears but not on something like the 10EE. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost17.jpg Answer is mill a new vee on the opposite side. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost18.jpg Still enough room to fit on the flat way but you get two bites of the cherry. Purists will throw their arms up in the air milling a steady but purists don't have to earn a living doing this daily. Last, not exactly a steady but can be used as one is the rotating chuck in the tailstock. Shot from the back, one bearing sits in the back of the chuck and a second sits in the backplate. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost19.jpg By using an independent 4 jaw it can hold anything you throw at it and allow you to clock the parts up that need to run true and them machine enough to then get a conventional steady on the part. http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/steadypost20.jpg This isn't all there is on steadies, only a small part but hopefully enough that you can see other ways to support work. Questions ? John S. ------- Re: A treatise on steadies. Posted by: "John" johnx~xxstevenson-engineers.co.uk Date: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:57 am ((PDT)) "Cliff Coggin" wrote: > Many thanks John, much food for thought. One problem I always encounter > using a steady is aligning the part on the axis. Get it wrong and the > part walks out of the chuck as it rotates. Any tips? Cliff: probably many ways and various set up's with dial gauges spring to mind, not that I have ever gone that way. If I can't support with a centre first, then set the steady up on the diameter I want. I hunt around for a short piece of bar the same size as my diameter; if it's a weird size I turn a short slug of scrapbinium down to that size. I then set the steady up on this diameter next to the chuck, lock the two bottom fingers, then ease to top finger off and slide the steady to where it's needed and just use the top finger for adjustment. Most of the time I'm working to whole number bearing diameters and have short pieces of ground rod / silver steel / drill rod in these sizes but remember I do a lot of this work and it pays me to have it available. John S. ------- Change Gears: Off-Label Use... [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "indianfourrider" indianfourriderx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:54 am ((PDT)) Friends, Another old bike rabbit run necessitated (in my little mind, anyway!) fitting a piece of 1/2" square tube to an existing curve. The afore- mentioned little mind thought it would be about the same amount of work to modify my old shop-made tubing roller as it would be to bend the tube "old school" with a torch and have to clean up the surfaces with brass and bondo. I broke my long-standing practice and actually bought material for the dies. Three 1.5" slugs of 3" diameter 1045 round bar cost me the outrageous sum of $7.50. including tax. Once the dies were made the challenge was figuring out how to drive the rollers. The original gizmo was made before I had the 12x36 and had only one roller driven and wooden forming dies. It was adequate, but the dies were unintentinally sacrificial. I toyed with using an old length of garage door opener chain. That would have required either buying of making sprockets. Then I saw the stack of change gears sitting on the bench. The light bulb flickered and off we went. Once I tinkered a bit with the clearances on the idler roller the silly thing worked! I can see no damage to the gears after bending a length of 1/2" square tube with .062" wall thickness to an approximately 9" radius. Oh, the 'handwheel' is an old dryer pulley that I have also used as an emergency counterchaft pulley. The tasteful use of duct tape qualifies the progect officially as Appalachian Engineering. I've posted an album called "Tubing Roller" with the project and early results. Still needed a bit of bondo to smooth over the weld, but when the paint is dry on the finished part I'll add a picture to the album. ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a very detailed 29 pages of write-up featuring George Britnell's challenging project of a 90 Degree V Twin engine. Many (most) of us will never undertake so complex a project, but it sure makes for a good read with lots of tips and procedures we could use when making simpler stuff. http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6847.0 My thanks to George. ------- Need some simple project ideas [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "John O'Connell" jboconnellx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon May 17, 2010 6:12 pm ((PDT)) I have a 14 year old boy coming to visit for a week this summer, I have some wood lathe projects for him to turn, pens, bottle stoppers etc. I would like to have him turn something on the 7X10. Any simple items or do-dads come to mind, no steam engines please. If I can keep him away from video games for one evening out of three I will be lucky. My only thought is some trim items or center bands to integrate into wood and acrylic turned pens. Help... JB ------- Re: Need some simple project ideas Posted by: "BRIAN GLACKIN" glackin.brianx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon May 17, 2010 6:31 pm ((PDT)) New knobs for his video game controller..... ------- Re: Need some simple project ideas Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon May 17, 2010 7:12 pm ((PDT)) Hi JB. Here are a variety of projects that I've done that are all pretty simple: Tapping Blocks: http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Projects/Tapping-Block/ Machinist's jacks: http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Projects/Machinist-Jack/ Brass Mallet: http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Projects/Brass-Mallet/ Drill Chuck Mount (gets into threading): http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Projects/Drill-Chuck-Mount/ If you also have a mill, then these thin stock spacers can be handy for some jobs: http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Projects/Thin-Stock-Spacer/ Dave Hylands Shuswap, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Re: Need some simple project ideas Posted by: "rod rowzee" rrowzee1954x~xxhotmail.com Date: Mon May 17, 2010 7:29 pm ((PDT)) Chess or checker pieces, candlesticks, fireplace utensils, napkin rings, salt/pepper shakers, mortar & pestle. What is he into other than video games? My 13 year old son is the same into video games but also into skate boarding. ------- Re: Need some simple project ideas Posted by: "toolmaker48" toolmaker48x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon May 17, 2010 8:31 pm ((PDT)) I have a 22 y/o 52 weeks out of the year. If I could keep him off his computer for 1 evening out of 365, I'd consider myself lucky. Care to trade? Robert ------- Re: Need some simple project ideas Posted by: "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" starlight_toolsx~xxtelus.net Date: Mon May 17, 2010 9:46 pm ((PDT)) "if it can't be done with a computer, it can't be done at all." That is the way the kids are these days. They spend hours battling this and that but never actually acomplish anything! Speaking from experience here, have two step sons that are like that. Sleep til past noon, then battle droids til wee hours of the morning, and if they have to leave the house they have their portable battle grounds that they can take with them. Yes the "Confuser" is a great tool and a bit of a necessary evil, but there is more to life than gluing oneself to it day and night, and not actually getting or making anything. Give me a shop full of tools and let me be creative anyday. Had an interesting project come in that I did today. Company that I deal with a lot, makes timber frame homes, and high end ones. So they sent out to a fab shop and had a bunch of steel joining brackets made up. These then get polished up and often Blackened. Well this one bracket comes in, and there are 12 holes per side in three rows of four. Well the blue print says to drill them 1-1/16" diameter. Yup the guy building them missed the - and drilled them all 11/16". So I was asked to redrill them to the proper size. Turned a plug to fit the hole that allowed me to centre the annular cutter, and set up the DRO just to double check and ended up with a whole bunch of thin T bushings, and I could tell by the walls that I was getting them almost bang on centred over the existing holes. As for JB's original request for projects there are so many projects shown on different sites, but many of them have to do with making a different widget that will make the lathe operate better. Hard to find projects that are something a kid can actually feel good about making. In Millwright school we were given a list of projects that we were expected to make. They had all the different aspects of layout, hand and machine work to give a broad understanding of how to do it. I questioned the instructor, what are you going to do with this 6" raised face pipe flange when I finish it? I am not going to be making anything with that large a pipe so I really do not need it. Are they going to the welding shop for practice welds? Nope, they get chucked in the scrap metal bin. Well then how about I make up some projects that will be useful, I need a set of bearing splitters, and a set of V-press plates and an engine hoist. These projects have all the complexity plus of the ones you want me to make and toss in the scrap pile. His answer was go ahead and make them, but to make three of the hoists. I would get one to take home, the instructor was taking one home and the school would keep the other. I still use that bearing splitter daily over twenty years later. The engine hoist is still in regular use as well. V-plates are stored away waiting for me to find room to put in a big press again but ocasionally get dragged out when needed. Big thing with picking a project to make is that it needs to have some form of usefulness to the builder. Maybe it is a nice set of napkin rings to give mom for Christmas, or a wind chime for Gramma, or a part to fix that old fishin' reel so we can go and catch the big one. A really good set of books that any home shop machinst shouldn't be without is the Machinist Bedside Reader series by Guy Lautard http://www.lautard.com/ This set of 3 books is jam packed with small project ideas, interesting stories that are often more historical fiction. Each story tells of some process that is used to make, harden or create an item, woven around some fictional characters. Well guys, I have rambled on enough for now. All the best Walter ------- Re: Need some simple project ideas Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.net Date: Tue May 18, 2010 5:48 am ((PDT)) Once upon a time I found myself as a 40+ adult taking a 1 year course at a rural VoTech school so I could document some already existing skills and add some new ones -- and get some local, credible references for a planned job search. CA creds don't buy much in rural Arkansas. Most of the kids were afraid to actually DO anything in the machine shop, so wasted their shop time telling one another how great they were. The teacher was into electronics and hydraulics [part of the curriculum I was in] and wasn't into the machine shop part of the program, so I sort of took it on myself to try to breathe some life into the potential that lay within the nice lathe, mill, MIG and TIG welders and all this really neat "scrap" donated by industries. One thing I found that got a lot of interest was single pointing threads. No one believed it could be done. Pure magic. The first time I showed folks that it could be done and how, I had folks crowded around the lathe truly engrossed. And a little later some of them wanted to try it themselves. Sooo . . . maybe you can find a need for a bolt or screw that just can't be found. Try and suck him in as to how it might be made. Maybe play dumb and ask him to help you understand thread forms from some text because you need a 5/8-18 stud. Review a book or two as to how to do it. Suck him in to help in the research and be involved before you even go to the lathe. Start with a piece of stock that has to be turned down. The training objective in all of this is to show that solutions to practical problems can be found in books. Smart folks don't know all the answers, they just know where the answers can be found, etc., etc. Then once you've amazed him with single pointing threads on a lathe, show that if it were a smaller thread you were after, you could have done it with a die, but you didn't and couldn't. That might open up the chance to discuss how many kinds of threads there are in use in the world. It might be worth admitting some amazement that there was so much thought put into thread forms and how they are all different, but different with a purpose. My Dad made a point of requiring me and my brother to disassemble our first vehicle and put it back together, but he helped us on the really technical parts. It eventually dawned on us that if Pop knew so much about mechanical and automotive things, maybe . . . just maybe . . . he might actually know a thing or two about life in general . . . and maybe wasn't so far out of it that we, as all knowing teenagers, thought he was. Anyway, I hope you can connect. L.H. Garlinghouse Arkansas USA ------- Re: Need some simple project ideas Posted by: "Cindy & Wayne Burner" burners4x~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue May 18, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT)) My son and I spent some time making a special paperweight of his own design. He majored in Math, and minored in Chinese, during his college years. while he was in high school, he asked if he could make something on the lathe and milling machine. We tuned a piece of aluminum 2 inches in diameter, 2 inches thick, put a knurl on the bottom 1 inch, parted it off, and soothed it up. He then drew a Chinese word on one side, and used a ball end mill to trace the word into the top face of the puck. He now is a high school math teacher, and his "paper weight" of his own design, sits on his desk at work. These were some of the best times I have spent making things on my metal working equipment. My father was a wood worker, and we made a pine lap top desk together, when I was younger, that we both were very proud of. Wayne(rice)Burner ------- Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:22:55 -0400 From: Dwight Beebe Subject: [OldTools] Touch mark making Greetings Gracious Galoots, I'd like to hear from those who've made their own instruments to place touch marks on their works. I'd especially like to hear how symbols or initials are carved, filed, chiseled, etc. onto the end of a metal piece, e.g., rod. I can picture how I might create the outer borders of the mark, but how does one remove material from an inner part? What about the type of metal to use? Iron, steel, brass? And how is the mark made on the work's surface? I'd assume by the gentle tap of a hammer, but I profess complete ignorance. Looking forward to your answers. Regards, Dwight ------- Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 23:09:34 -0500 From: WesG Subject: Re: [OldTools] Touch mark making Dwight wants to make a touch mark. Dwight, using the letter "O" as an example... Step one is to make a punch to create the center of the O. (a D would need a different shape as would a P or a G. Just figure most letters have an inside shape and an outside shape.) Heat your stock and stamp the punch where you want the center of the O to be. Next step, remove the outside of the O with a file, leaving enough metal so the line is as thick as you want. Next step, harden and temper to a straw ot light bronze and you can use your new stamp on steel or wood or whatever. That's the simple way to do it. We could get more complex if you want. Cheers, Wes ------- Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:56:14 +1000 From: "Peter McBride" Subject: RE: [OldTools] Touch mark making Dwight, it is a pretty specialised thing to do, but not impossible for an enthusiastic galoot. I use pretty much any old tool steel lying around. From old cold chisels, to old brace bits and star chisels. Soften it first by heating up to just past cherry, and cooling slowly. After the cutting is done, I harden in water, then temper to straw yellow, again in water. I did make one in brass for use in wood, and it works quite well. I made one at our MAGNUM event last year. Down the page some on this link are a couple of pictures. www.petermcbride.com/magnum09/ As can be seen, I use magnification and a flex drive with various shaped burrs to cut away the mirror image. I can also use engravers tools to do some cutting. I've done a few symbols, like a bee, and a canary. I find straight lines easier to do... D & B are not too bad. I would use a cylinder bur to get the two vertical lines cut, then the serifs, then the three half circles. Mine don't look as crisp as pantograph stuff because I just draw it out with a felt tip and go for it with the burrs. As to using the stamp. just try it and you will quickly see how hard you need to whack it with a hammer. Perhaps I could do a more detailed report, with some close up pix...next week, time permitting. Regards, Peter, In Melbourne, Australia. ------- Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 12:59:25 -0700 From: James Thompson Subject: Re: [OldTools] Touch mark making On May 15, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. wrote: > I'm a tad perfused about the dremel and metal cutting. Won't the dremel want to hop about like - - like - - well like an end mill in a hand drill? < Not if you are using the ball shaped or football shaped tools, carbide or diamond. I have these for my 400,000 RPM Turbocarber, and they work very well. The ones the dentist uses once and tosses are also nice. They no longer use bits a second time due to the possibility of infection from patient to patient. I have a mess of 1/16" diamond straight bits and some wheel shaped bits too that my dentist gave me. ------- Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 13:40:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Conroy Subject: [OldTools] Re: Touch mark making Galooteratti: Dwight Beebe asked about touch marks. Prop your eyes open and get coffee or a pillow, depending on inclination; this may take a while. For marking planes and other wooden tools an "embossed" mark was usually (not always) used, struck into the endgrain, which will take a crisper mark and hold it better over time. An embossed mark drives down an area surrounding the name, leaving the name standing slightly proud of the surround. Letters were typically 1/8" high or less. To make one you would take a steel blank with a polished end and right- reading individual letter stamps (not common letter stamps, which are reversed). You would strike the stamps into the end of the blank, forming the name in reverse and sunken into the blank. Then you would file the borders of the surround to size, often ending up by making the edge into a zigzag with a small triangular file. The zigzag edge probably reduced the amount of force needed to strike the mark. When you struck the mark into the wood you would get raised right- reading letters. This is an important principal in making marks to make marks: every generation reverses both the mirror-image and whether the mark sinks in or sticks up. Marks were made soft, but might be hardened for use; probably most owners wouldn't bother with the extra expense of hardening, since the number of uses would be limited, but a maker would have an obvious advantage in the longer life of a hardened mark. If you don't have right-reading letter stamps (and who among us does?) (well, some of us, I'll bet, but not many) then you can cut the letters of the name into an embossed mark with gravers (burins) or, as Peter described, using a burr and a dremel or flexible-shaft tool. Gravers are like tiny gouges and chisels for metal, and the learning curve is steep; in particular, I found I had to learn not to try to raise too big a chip with each cut. The gravers available from artists' suppliers are usually the diamond cross section that I find is extremely difficult to use, and the artists' suppliers sell them hafted but with the blade left full length--- so you think you have a usable tool when you still ahve to cut it down to length. Get your gravers from a jewelers' supplier; I find the oval shapes are easier to learn with (imagine trying to learn wood carving with a gouge as opposed to learning it with a corner chisel). Once you learn to use gravers they will give your hand some guidance, and exert some beneficial influence on the aesthetics of what you are doing. Using burrs and a flex shaft you can start without the steep learning curve, but you will have to guide your work entirely by eye, which in my experience is usually a bad thing. Touchmarks for items of metal, including tools, were usually (not always) "incuse" marks, where the letters on the touchmark stick up but read in reverse. When struck into the workpiece this gives an indented right- reading mark. The common hardware-store letter and number punches are incuse marks. To make one you would sink the counters (the white areas inside the letters) with counterpunches as Wes described, or by digging them out with gravers. Some typographic punchcutters preferred one technique, some preferred the other. You could also waste out your counters with a small pump- drill and then refine their edges with gravers; bookbinders' finishing tool makers working in bronze or brass (which work-harden too fast to counterpunch easily) used this method. Most of the outsides of the letters would have been formed with small triangular files, working at an angle to the face of the punch (so the letter will spread as you drive the punch deeper into the substrate). Some areas between the letters have to be cut with a graver or, nowadays, a burr. Since the letter has a wider base than top, if you take too much off one place you can file down the whole face and spread all the lines; this has the disadvantage that you have to correct everything, not just your error, but it may be better than starting from scratch. When an incuse mark is struck into a tool, what you see isn't exactly the face of the mark (which is at the bottom of the depression) or the shape at the surface of the tool (which will vary depending on how deeply you strike the mark) but something between the two. The point is that you can't judge what you are making by looking at the surface of the punch, or even by looking at a mark obtained by inking the surface of the punch and pressing it on paper. You have to see what it looks like pushed into something. One way to do this is to press it into softish colored wax; I have never used this technique, but I would guess you would want something about the hardness of a gouda cheese rind, not something as hard as a crayon. For the last stages of refining the shape you might strike it into endgrain wood, but in the early stages when there is lots of metal still on the end it would take a huge amount of force to drive it in. Incuse marks for wood were about the size of the embossed marks, say 1/8" high, and like them they were struck into endgrain. For brass or copper they were typically much smaller, say 1/16" or less; this might be because the parts being marked were small, but I think it is also relevant that copper alloys, though often called "soft" metals, work-harden so rapidly that you can only make one blow in marking them before you have to anneal the metal. Touchmarks for steel are also often soft, and if we're talking blades you'd better figure on striking them before hardening the blade or even when the blade is red-hot. Not that I can say that from experience; most of my relevant experience has been in making bookbinders finishing tools (decorative stamps) from brass and bronze; but it stands to reason that you won't get a clear mark trying to stamp into hardened steel. The third edition of Goodman's "British Planemakers from 1700" has a good deal of discussion of touchmarks. Ashley Iles "Memories of a Sheffield Toolmaker" has a couple of passages describing touchmark making for edge tools. Fred Smiejers' "Counterpunch" is about typographic punchcutting and its relation to letter design and is a good read. There are a small number of books on typographic punchcutting and other forms of engraving; those I know of are in the bibliogrpahy of my [shill warning] "Bookbinders' Finishing Tool Makers 1780-1965" (Oak Knoll Press, 2002), which you can get from Amazon for $55 [shill warning ends] but I have seen it on remainder in Half Price Books for, as it happens, half price--- of which I don't think I see a penny, but if I were you I'd get it cheap if I got it at all. "What about the type of metal to use? Iron, steel, brass?" Steel, always steel, unless you are planning to make a branding iron, in which case other design considerations start coming into it. "And how is the mark made on the work's surface? I'd assume by the gentle tap of a hammer..." Not so gentle. Put it in contact with the workpiece exactly where you want it and give it a good hard bang with a mallet. I use a 3-lb rawhide-faced mallet for marking wooden bookbinders' presses with a steel punch. Do not, I repeat do not hit it twice in a row: the first blow will have made it give a little jump and come down in a different place, so two blows in a row will double the image. Hit it once, lift it and examine the image, and then if it is not deep enough feel it into place in the mark you have made, holding it there carefully before giving it another single blow and checking it again. Tom Conroy Falling asleep in San Francisco, so how can I wonder if you dozed off long ago? Well, maybe it matters thqat I'm sitting in a museum, but I never used to find museums conducive to sleep. Maybe I'm... just getting... olllld..... ------- Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 11:37:08 -0500 From: WesG Subject: Re: [OldTools] Touch mark making On May 16, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Scott Murman wrote: > i salvaged some hardened bars that i'm planning to make punches, &c. > from. i think they are a form of stainless. Scott, Since the steel won't be stainless by the time you're finished, unless you want to use stainless for something else that requires testing, I wouldn't bother testing. Good steel for stamp making is all over the place. If you're only using your stamp on wood, plain old regular steel will work fine. If you're going to use your stamp on metal, any heat treatable stuff will work. It just depends on your personal preference and how much life you intend to get out of your stamp. I prefer water hardening steel because I don't like the oil fumes that come with O-1. I also have a tendancy to knock stuff over and water is easier to clean up. Did I mention it's cheap too? If I need to buy some specific size for repousse tools etc, I like to buy from a place called flat-stock.com they have all kinds and sizes of steel. And the stainless? After you heat it up high enough to work it with a file or a burr, you take the stainless property away. You can re- install it's "stainless-ness", but that's not something you do with a mapp torch and a bucket of water. Stick to old cold chisels or punches or star drills or whatever and you'll have fewer headaches. Cheers, Wes ------- Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 15:31:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Conroy Subject: Re: [OldTools] Touch mark making I doubt it matters whether the bars are stainless or not. The questions are: can you anneal them and shape them with files? Can you harden and temper them afterwards? Go ahead and try it with a small bit. A lot of stainless and all HSS will fail one test or the other. Tom Conroy San Francisco ------- Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 14:10:25 -0700 From: "Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq." Subject: Re: [OldTools] Touch mark making When you heat 304 or 316 Stainless past a certain point the chrome migrates away from the surface which is the problem you refer to, I believe. I believe you can use what is called in the industry a "solution soak" process to cause the chrome to migrate back. Heat the metal to 1045 C and immerse it in 70 C water. Here is more than you probably want to know: http://www.gowelding.com/met/austenitic.html Care and cleaning http://www.ssina.com/view_a_file/cleaning.pdf Lots of varied info: http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html Heat treating such as after welding: http://www.azom.com/details.asp?articleid=1141 more: http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=965 Main page with search options for azom: http://www.azom.com/ ------- Files moved to the atlas_craftsman_projects group [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "rexarino" rexarinox~xxgmail.com Date: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm ((PDT)) Note that the following refers to the PROJECTS group (the atlas_craftsman_projects group), NOT this group. Because the file space for this group is filling up, I have removed the folder and files that are duplicates of those in the atlas_craftsman_projects group. Anyone that wishes to see them in the future will need to look at or join the atlas_craftsman_projects group. Because membership in the "projects" group is small, and activity is encouraged on this group instead of that one, the duties of the moderator are minimal, and requests for membership get processed quickly. The moderator of this group can, may, and is encouraged to move less requested files to the a_c_projects group at his discretion. Thanks, Rex ------- Making Stuff [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "indianfourrider" indianfourriderx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:53 pm ((PDT)) If anyone (else) would like a break from internet etiquette I have posted an album of some things I actually MADE on my A/C 12x36. The album, "Making Stuff" has my latest 3 projects, ranging from the ridiculous - a 5 foot drill extensiion needed for a plumbing project at the church to a tailstock turret my wife dubbed "Sputnik" that I now realize I spelled wrong on all of the pictures! Also included is an air cleaner backing plate for 1940 Indian Four motorcycles. If anyone's interested I can provide details and/or explanations of the photos. I know, I should join the "Projects" group... But I like this group so much... Replies welcome, top or bottom posted! Jim ------- Re: Making Stuff Posted by: "BRIAN GLACKIN" glackin.brianx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:17 pm ((PDT)) I have yet to begin making stuff. I am presently in the "collecting stuff" phase. I have a 12X 36 in pieces, a 6X18 on the bench assembled but waiting for me to dive in. I have a Rusnok milling head partially disassembled with a second ready to join it. I picked up a Sheldon horizontal mill (presently in pieces) on which one of the Rusnok heads was fitted - that was a beast to get.... I also have a 13.5X54 import lathe in pieces in the garage. Who has time to make stuff...? ------- Re: Making Stuff Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.org Date: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:48 pm ((PDT)) indianfourrider wrote: > The album, "Making Stuff" has my latest 3 projects That is a work of art. Very nice. > Also included is an air cleaner backing plate for 1940 Indian Interesting. Would like to see picts of the spinning setup. That is something I wanted to try. Been using my 12x36 but not anything interesting. Craftsman riding mowers have this plastic part in the steering, think of two tubes forming a Tee. It is a support for the steering pinion gear. The plastic quickly goes oblong from wear. So, I mounted in the 4-jaw, bored it out oversize. Then turned/bored a brass sleeve and knurled the outside. Force fit into the plastic. Now won't wear. Too bad the plastic cracked. A band clamp worked. One of these days, I'll make one entirely out of brass or steel. Toying with the idea of using 6061 aluminum. Brass is expensive, steel will rust and I have a big chunk of 6061. Maybe use 6061 and get some bronze bushings. One of those things that turning is easy, setting up will take most of the time. Also meed to turn a bunch of brass bearings: 3/4" ID, some od OD with a flange. Mowers use these all over made of plastic and they disintegrate. Also broke the smaller of the interchangable burners on my MAPP gas torch. The threaded part snapped off. Turned another thread with step and o-ring then soldered on old. Not very interesting. More forgettable stuff over the last few months. Still real nice to find a need, fire up the lathe amd make something quicker than driving all over town looking for it or ordering and weighting for it ;) Did pick up some "smoke grey" paint. Maybe as I have nothing big to do, start taking parts off and painting them. Scott G. Henion Craftsman 12x36 lathe http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36 ------- Re: Making Stuff Posted by: "James Walther" indianfourriderx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:34 pm ((PDT)) Scott, thanks for the kind words and for some ideas. I hadn't thought of rebushing the worn plastic wheels on my lawnmower. Maybe a machine other than the Indian will get some maintenence this winter. I'll post the spinning stuff tomorrow after church. I was taught basic spinning in Jr. High machine shop back in the 60's, brass, copper and aluminum. Resurrected it 10 years ago or so to make trim rings for Indian ignition switches from 015" brass. Sure wish I'd paid more attention back in machine shop. Did it on my wood lathe. Probably have pictures somewhere but they're pre-digital and my scanner's on the fritz. Found out quickly the differences between spinning 015 brass and 16 ga A36! Finesse vs. brute force! Film at 11... Jim ------- NOTE TO FILE: There are some other postings on spinning metal in the file here called Simple Metal Forming. Jim's continuation of this metal spinning conversation changed to some how-to tips and they can be found in the Simple Metal Forming file starting Jul 18, 2010. ------- Gits type Ball Oiler Project [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.net Date: Thu Sep 9, 2010 10:00 am ((PDT)) I was thinking of following someone's suggestion on one of the lathe lists -- either the Logan or the Atlas one -- on drilling lubrication holes in the carriage to oil the ways directly rather than letting the felts smear the lube around. I have just received new split nuts and am going to have to take the carriage apart any way so why not make that logical improvement at the same time? But what of covering up the holes? Hmmm!! I think. Gits Ball Style oil-hole covers would be the hot set-up, but at $2.50/ea +shipping and handling, that is a lot of $$/lb. Probably as expensive as eyeglass frames. My inner Wylie Coyote told me I should be able to make something similar. First stop was: http://www.gitsmfg.com/gits-oil-hole-covers-style-gb.htm where I saw that they were in fact as simple as I had imagined. Second stop was the local shooting range where I picked up a handful of spent .22 caliber long rifle casings. [.22 shorts would have been a better choice, but for free, no sense in complaining -- besides right now I am proto-typing]. Last night I went out and got a piece of 3/8 round about 2" long -- only because that is what I had very handy, faced off both ends and then center drilled a pilot hole and then drilled a clearance hole for the shell ["A" or a 15/64" drill size]. I drilled it about as deep as 1/2 the length of the shell. Then I chucked a shell casing [very lightly -- too tight and it goes tri-nodular on you] and center drilled a 0.120" hole w/ countersink in the end using a #3 center drill. Next I took a larger drill and de-burred the inner hole, cleaned the casing out with WD40 and a cotton swab and then inserted a BB + a spring out of a discarded ball-point pen. Then, with the 3/8" round die back in the chuck, I closed down the jaws on the chuck in the tailstock and used the flat surface of the closed jaws to push the spring-BB-.22shell assembly into the die using the tailstock crank to advance the quill. I pressed it in about 1/16" and removed the assembly. The angled bottom of the drilled hole formed by the point of the drill was enough to make a crimp that retained the spring and Poof!! Instant GB type Ball Oiler. My time including making the tooling, finding things, dropping and re- finding things was about 1 hour. I made 4 of these so I made $10/hour. Whoopee!!! And not only that I became in order: a designer, a tool designer, a tool maker and a production superintendent. Wow!! This machine shop/production stuff is EASY!! Now that I have the tooling and an approved process, I can probably make double that on the next run. Notes: The crimp was a bit rough, but good enough and proved the concept. The really hot set up would be smoother less acute angle at the bottom of the blind hole, or even a spherical bottom, or best still, a circular groove that would turn the end of the shell back onto itself like on a tubular rivet. I am going to look into anealing the shell end before I do this next time as that might improve things. Still, the concept seems to have been proved. Later, L.H. Garlinghouse Arkansas USA Chief Business Person, Designer and ProtoType Machinst Cooter Neck Forge Industries ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "outlawmws" outlawmwsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:36 am ((PDT)) A neat fix, but may I offer a couple of suggestions? For the hole in the end of the case, clamp a block of wood in your prill press table, and drill a 1/4" deep hole the Dia of the .22 case; then change to a smaller drill and you have a centered drilling fixture for the cases. Instead of crimping the spring in, step drill .22, and through drill .125 at the installation/oil point, and a light press fit into the .22 hole will also retain the spring, no crimping required. Outlaw Chief back seat driver and process improvement specialist. Back Yard Hack Industries ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.net Date: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:06 am ((PDT)) Mr. Outlaws: The Cooter Neck Forge Quality Circle and Continuous Improvement Team thanks you for your input. I have added your cost saving/process improvement suggestion to the agenda of the next Ball Oiler Quality Circle meeting. Yours in Quality L.H. Garlinghouse Quality Circle/Process Improvement Facilitator Cooter Neck Forge Industries Arkansas USA ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:47 am ((PDT)) Well I just had to try this and found some interesting things. First I used the idea to drill a hole in a wood block and then put the shell casing in the hole and drilled the .125" hole for a bearing (don't have any BB's). It worked ok but the hole for some reason was not pefectly centered. (I intend to investigate further.) I used a block of wood that was as thick as I wanted the oilers to be long and just hit them with the belt sander held in the block of wood. That sized them nicely to length. I then drilled a hole in a block of steel and finished the bottom with a ball endmill. The first try worked well but I thought the crimp could be a bit tighter so I annealed the rest of the cases first. That was a mistake. They got so soft they just sorta crumpled under the press. The crimp was not nearly as good. I think I will go with the idea of not crimping them and using the stepped hole as suggested. Really cool idea :) Thanks! Glenn ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.net Date: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:52 am ((PDT)) Good feed back. I'll not bother annealing the cases and trust your experience. As to the stepped hole and no crimp suggestion, the problem I suspect will be that with time the spring will push the case up along with the ball. Of course if you could find some weird drill that would yield a nice press fit between the hole and the case; and one could easily enough make the case slightly larger by a properly sized mandrel pressed in. I do think the partly spherical hole bottom is the right way to go for crimping. Later, L.H. Garlinghouse Arkansas USA ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:00 pm ((PDT)) A #2 drill was a close fit on the .22 case and I think you could press it nicely into a #3 hole. A drop or two of loctite or super glue should keep it in place. If you left the shell slightly longer than the hole it would compress and crimp itself into the hole too. The ones I annealed were tough to get back out of the crimping block. ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "MIKE JORDAN" mikejayx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:31 pm ((PDT)) Couldn't you make 4-6 lengthwises cuts about a tenth or so deep into the case before you press it into the drilled-hole crimper? I think that would close up enough to hold the ball and spring and leak enough to oil. ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:42 pm ((PDT)) Sounds like a good idea. It did start to wrinkle so a slot would help. Probably need to use a fine saw on a dremel or a slitting saw in the mill. The big problem for me was the spring didn't want to stay in. ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jtiers Date: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:01 pm ((PDT)) I guess you folks know that you can (if you really want one) get the ball oilers from McMaster-Carr, for about a buck (82cents at 20 pc). Or, regular cup oilers with flip-top (much better, IMO) for a bit more. I figure this is one of those "because I can" things, but... JT ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:51 pm ((PDT)) Yeah I know and I have some brand new in the bag from them that I ordered when I got some replacement flip lid type for the QCGB. For me the exercise is to create the ball and spring thing for stuff like detents. For the purpose in question some type of pressure oil point would be nice, (similar to a zerk) but even that would stand too tall. I think this one's more about the journey than the destination :) Glenn ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "Gregg" W5IDXx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:02 pm ((PDT)) I think I would drill the hole, install the ball & spring. Then take a hole punch or something and punch out a round piece from thicker brass shim stock with a hole in the center or a maybe use a small copper washer. Fit it in the case then solder it together. Then press it in the hole!!! Voila! Or am I off base here? Why not just machine all the parts from a few brass screws and washers and solder it together? "G" ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:12 pm ((PDT)) It gets a bit tricky just holding all the pieces together to squish em. I spent more time typing about them than it took to make everything. I think it would have worked great if I hadn't annealed the brass. The first one I did was really nice and then I heated the rest to red and tried them. The sides were no longer stiff enough to force the crimping action very far. Besides I like to squish stuff better than I like to solder stuff ;) ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "DennisF MacIntyre" a1g2r3ix~xxyahoo.ca Date: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:00 pm ((PDT)) If you are considering soldering after installing the spring, I have a concern. I do not know if the temperature to solder would be too hot to retain the tension in the spring. I do not think I would risk it. keep smiling dennis mac ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "outlawmws" outlawmwsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:37 pm ((PDT)) Soldering temperatures for lead-tin solder will not take the "spring" out of the spring. I've soldered wires directly onto springs without issue. Outlaw ------- Re: Gits type Ball Oiler Project Posted by: "MIKE JORDAN" mikejayx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:56 pm ((PDT)) a little thing about annealing. when i used to reload i annealed lots of brass. i stood the cases "in formation" in a cake pan,filled it with water to just below the level i wanted annealed and put the heat to it. underwater portion is safe, above water is softened. ------- Making Tooling [sherline group] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Dec 4, 2010 9:43 am ((PST)) Hello All, I'm starting a new thread as this touches on a couple of recent ones and some responses: re the angle table, mill tooling plate, and some new hand's questions about tooling. I like the Mic 6 tooling plate because it's cast flat and stress relieved. Rolled plate and bar has internal stresses, and is surface hardened, as an artifact of the manufacturing process. This may cause the material to spring when smaller pieces are sawed or sheared off, or while machining features. It doesn't have a uniform grain structure throughout. Tooling plate starts and stays dead and flat. It's also dimensionally accurate, and has very nice ground surfaces. Usually ships with a protective plastic covering. So for most 2D parts, one dimension and two surfaces are finished before you start. No fly cutting needed. Excellent machinabiltiy. Great time saver. Of course the degree of accuracy required depends on the application. But for anything used as tooling I strive to hold the tightest tolerances I reasonably can with the equipment at hand, and make everything true and square and to standard dimensions. Say, for example, I just need a little fixture: a roughly 1 x 4 inch piece of plate with a couple of holes drilled and tapped to hold a smaller part while machining. Could make it in a few minutes by eyeball with nothing but a band saw and drill press. Would work perfectly well -- once. Instead, I'll always take a little extra time to make it exactly 1 x 4, straight and square, and the hole pattern to some even fractional or decimal dimensions. I've got boxes of this sort of thing accumulated over the years. Most of it has been used many times, until I run out of room for new holes. Since it's all straight and square I can grab any piece and use it as a parallel, or spacer, or straight edge. I know that all the edges are good datums. If something looks like an inch, I don't even have to measure it. I know it's an inch because I wouldn't make it any other way. When you make any piece of tooling, try to think about how you can make it as versatile as possible. Maybe mill some steps so it fits repeatably in a toolmakers vise. Or incorporate a stop, or a locating pin. Take standard dimensions from the Sherline parts and tooling so that everything remains compatible and interchangeable. All of this is time well spent, and for the newer hands, a great way to gain experience. Back when I was teaching in apprentice programs, most of the first year projects involved making tools and fixtures. These should be made to last a lifetime. And more. I've got, and use, stuff that I made during my apprenticeship, as well as stuff my father and grandfather made during theirs. David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: mini tool [sherline] Posted by: "Pete & Pam Boorum" smallifex~xxmyfairpoint.net Date: Wed Dec 8, 2010 2:16 am ((PST)) John: Your mini tools are great. Have you ever worked in 1/12 or 1/6 scale which is customary for high quality miniatures? For reference visit http://igma.org. Also check the work of friend and master miniaturist Bill Robertson. http://www.toolchest-site.com/william-robertson-miniature-tool-chest Pete Pam & Pete Boorum, Smaller Than Life IGMA Artisans 79 Sebbins Pond Drive, Bedford, NH 03110 http://www.smallerthanlife.com ------- Re: mini tool Posted by: "John Maki" minitool41x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Dec 8, 2010 7:08 am ((PST)) Hi Pete: Thanks for your comments on my miniatures. As you observe, most of my work is done in 1/3 scale. When I first became interested in miniature tools, I found that most of the antique tool collectors seemed to be interested in tools in or near that scale. Since that time, I have attended some national tool collector's shows and have never seen 1/12 scale tools displayed or offered for sale. Also, I have never seem 1/12 scale miniatures offered in national or international tool collector's auction catalogs. The only exceptions have been occasional smaller tools which are designed as key-ring trinkets. However, they do not seem to be highly valued among collectors. I am aware of Bill Robertsons 1/12 scale tool set, and similar miniatures made by David Brookshaw in the UK. They are marvelous creations, made under an entirely different set of problems! If you are interested, I do have a little more information on my miniatures at: http://minitool.blogspot.com/ John Maki (Minitool41) http://www.flickr.com/photos/13976390x~xxN00/ ------- Re: mini tool Posted by: "Reid" reidsimx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Dec 8, 2010 7:21 am ((PST)) John, I looked at those mini tools. Wow you did a wonderful job. Do you normally buy old tools and make copies in small size? I notice some of the tools I have never seen before. I have [also] seen some old tools from my grandfather. Reid ------- Re: mini tool Posted by: "John Maki" minitool41x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Dec 8, 2010 7:57 am ((PST)) Reid: Thanks for your comment! Most of my miniatures are copies of tools from the Victorian period (perhaps 1870 to 1920). I also tend to favor European tools from that period, particularly England and France. I select tools largely based upon form rather than function. If a tool is made of ebony or rosewood, has lots of brass and perhaps bits of ivory it becomes a candidate for copying. Perhaps 1/2 of my miniatures were copied from photographs which provided sufficient detail to make a reasonable copy. More recently I have actually purchased an original tool (when available) as a model for a miniature. My wife and I have reached an agreement on these purchases, calling my stash of old tools a "rental file". I am allowed to buy a tool with the expectation that it will be sold at a later date. This system has actually worked quite well, as most of the tools I copy are of interest to "full-size" collectors. John Maki (Minitool41) http://www.flickr.com/photos/13976390x~xxN00/ ------- Make something [sherline] Posted by: "rsimonus" reidsimx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Jan 6, 2011 8:20 am ((PST)) I would like to know if anyone has made a G scale train engine from Sherline lathe and mill machine. I would like to know if there is a kits that we can build a G scale live steam engine. I want to do something on lathe or mill machine. Reid ------- Re: Make something Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Thu Jan 6, 2011 12:45 pm ((PST)) Reid: I have built an "O" size (1/4") Hudson 4-6-4 live steam engine on Sherline equipment. In this case it was 100% on a Sherline Lathe and Mill. However this is about as large as I would want to do on Sherlines. A "G" scale as I understand it, would be at least twice this size. If a "G" size engine is to be highly detailed, you will need Sherline size equipment for smaller parts and much larger equipment for the larger parts. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Make something Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Thu Jan 6, 2011 4:58 pm ((PST)) Reid wrote: > Do you build from scratch or kits? I am interesting to see picture > and where do you get drawing and how do you control them? Reid Reid: All of my models are built from bar stock. Casting sets/kits only assure that after many hundreds/thousands of hours you have what everyone else has. In this case the engine was constructed from photos of a real engine. Many times sets of photos are available from train shows or you can find a full size Engine while on vacation to photoghraph. If it were easy it wouldn`t be fun. The Engine is "O" gage as mentioned. It has Auto feed water pump, Auto water level and Auto boiler temp control all mechanical. The Engine and boiler controls are located inside the cabin as with larger live steam engines. The cabin roof hinges open for easy operation of the controls. I will post some Quick (Not High quality) photos under my name in the photo section. This engine was built many years ago. If I were building it today, it would have much more detail. Jerry Kieffer ------- new article available: A Different Kind of Screw Vise [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:22 am ((PST)) This article is another in my series of "newbie" projects although experienced machinists may find value in the design. The vise clamps a #6 or #8 screw such that its end can be easily and safely bevelled on a grinding wheel. The vise is similar to a pin vise except that it grabs the head and body. If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/dsv.pdf Questions and comments are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. Rick ------- NOTE TO FILE: Be sure to visit Rick Sparber's site above and also read the many other informative articles on machining subjects. Our thanks to Rick for taking the time to share his knowledge and experiences. ------- Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:25:02 -0400 From: Bill Webber Subject: [OldTools] Plane Making scott grandstaff said the following on 3/17/2011 5:29 PM. > Yeah, Wayne sits in an easy chair with the plane in his lap and takes > his time. > It doesn't take so much movement but you want to control it. > But then, didn't we all see the Shephard boys with a 2 pound ball pein, > a 200 pound anvil, and 47 seconds time elapsed? They made some videos as > I recall? > Apparently you can get there by more than one direction. > yours Scott OK, I'm committed. I've started making what may turn out to be scrap metal, but I've started trying to make a few shoulder planes. So far I've cut and rough fitted a couple soles and sides. I know it is not considered good form here to refer to ones web pages, but that's the best I can do. This is going to be a long project and I want to share my progress with some other folks, too. I need to document what I'm doing and how I'm doing it one write-up that includes the picture references and that's not possible with email alone. Anyway, take a look if you have ever thought about making your own planes. We can learn together. The write-up is not for the squeamish; lots of electrons will be sacrificed. On my web page look at Projects in Progress. I'm hoping folks aren't using dialup any longer as I didn't reduce the pictures. Always happy to discuss what/why I'm doing what I'm doing and I'm always open to suggestions. I hope to be able to show off some finished planes by Christmas! Bill W. Woodworkers visit me at: http://billwebber.galootcentral.com ------- Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:59:05 +1100 From: "Peter McBride" Subject: Re: [OldTools] Plane Making Bill, that brass looks suspiciously like "Extruded #380 Brass" to me. The lines along it's length is a bit of a key. Does ring like a bell when hit with a hammer when held lightly and draped, or is it more of a donk noise than a dink? Fully annealed brass able to be peened easily will not go dink when hit. The material property list for leaded brass (#360) states "cold working capacity - POOR" and "Riveting and peening - NOT recommended". However # 260 brass has the properties..."cold working capacity - EXCELLENT". I believe Wayne Anderson prefers Naval Brass C464, but I'm not able to go down to the scrap merchant and get it in truckloads like I can the #260 brass. I use #360 "free machining brass" for lever caps and lever screws... because the material property info recommends it for that purpose. In the lathe and on the milling machine it will excel. Fully annealed #260 can be reduced in cross section by more than 60% before annealing is required again. Regards, Peter ------- Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:55:09 -0400 From: Bill Webber Subject: Re: [OldTools] Plane Making Geez, Peter, I usually look forward to your emails! So how much trouble am I in already? It is, in fact, C360 brass. I got it from a parts list from a plane someone made. I'll need to go back and find the reference. So, again, how bad a mistake did make? Will it move enough to lock together? Bill W. Woodworkers visit me at: http://billwebber.galootcentral.com ------- Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:55:38 +1100 From: "Peter McBride" Subject: Re: [OldTools] Plane Making Bill, here is a sheet for #360 www.anchorbronze.com/c36000.htm here is a sheet for #C464 www.anchorbronze.com/c46400.htm here is a sheet for #260 www.anchorbronze.com/c26000.htm I had really bad cracking with #380 before I knew what I was using, so when it failed miserably I tried another piece that looked and felt different...here is what I got, they just snapped off! www.petermcbride.com/temp/images/380_brass.jpg So before I re-cut new sides I did a test on the scrap brass bought locally. By cutting a piece, annealing it, and putting it in the vice, then after whacking it like crazy without a crack, I knew it wasn't at all like the stuff that failed. So I had one piece of crap, and another piece that worked like silver.....so I did a little research and discovered its published properties, which are similar to #360 which has an alloy of approx 2.5% lead and 0.03 % Aluminium, instead of in #360, the lead plus 0.035 % Iron & no Al. I should have known all this because from bitter and VERY expensive experience I knew the same thing happens to gold alloys if you are unlucky enough to get a trace of lead in your mix!!!!! Here is what I am doing with the failed sides, using screws instead of dovetails....all I need is some time to finish it. www.petermcbride.com/temp/images/screw_side_smooth1.jpg www.petermcbride.com/temp/images/screw_side_smooth2.jpg www.petermcbride.com/temp/images/screw_side_smooth3.jpg Regards, Peter ------- Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 13:26:12 +0000 From: "Yorkshireman at Y.I" Subject: Re: [OldTools] Plane Making Bill does plane making. I seem to remember back in the days of ASCII art that we had long and productive discussions about making shoulder planes from sheets of protesting metal. That would be way back last century of course. Ah, the good old days on the porch. Richard Wilson Yorkshireman Galoot in a Northumberland where the first day of spring is bright, clear, and giving up being cold. ------- Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 21:21:00 -0400 From: Bill Webber Subject: Re: [OldTools] Plane Making I tried to digest the spec sheets Peter sent. I guess I don't have the background or education to do that. I would have thought hardness would relate to workability, but both 464 and 260 are harder than 360 so my conclusion is obviously wrong. Modulus of elasticity looks wrong, to me, also. Oh well... Peter said he had had problems with some C380 brass that was too brittle to be moved properly and suggested I would likely have similar problems using the C360 brass. Since I had already a fair investment in time and materials I thought I'd slap something together and see how this brittleness phenomenon would actually manifest. I lashed together a steel sole and a C360 brass side piece. They weren't well secured. I hit the pieces with the ball end of a ball pein hammer. The objective was to see how fragile this brass really is. Some of the brass did, in fact, break off. http://billwebber.galootcentral.com/1103-021.JPG Here's a close-up. http://billwebber.galootcentral.com/1103-022.JPG I ground off the excess metal on the pins and tails. http://billwebber.galootcentral.com/1103-023.JPG The biggest real problem is the brass didn't flow into the corners and actually broke off where it should have flowed. http://billwebber.galootcentral.com/1103-024.JPG Where I hammered the steel to bond with the brass the metal flowed nicely and looks pretty good. http://billwebber.galootcentral.com/1103-028.JPG I'm very grateful to Peter for being so observant. There are a lot of steps between cutting the brass and actually hammering these things together. If I had cut the mouth, shaped the outer edges of the sides, cut out the holes for the blade access, made and fitted all the wood pieces, and then tried to hammer these things together I would have had a major disaster on my hands. It would have been a "fill the trash can and don't look back" kind of moment. Anyway, the initial news was somewhat discouraging, but I've made plans to return some of the C360 brass I bought. What I've cut up so far I'll put on Ebay. I'll be ordering some C464 Brass momentarily, and then I'll start again. Dang, this is fun! :-} Bill W. Woodworkers visit me at: http://billwebber.galootcentral.com ------- Fire Pistons [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Keith Mc" actix~xxPROVIDE.NET Date: Mon Aug 1, 2011 5:04 pm ((PDT)) Was "Re: [atlas_craftsman] A question on tolerances and finish. Advice on a simple project." Ah, the old fire piston. Cool tech. On Jul 29, 2011, jboconnellx~xxgmail.com wrote: > Have any of you ever seen anything like this? I have not. I wonder how tight the tolerances are to make one? This may be a prototype project. I have a teen coming to stay with me for a week. I try and work up one simple project involving the metal late and wood lathe. < Fire Pistons are simple one-cycle diesel engines. A dimple in the end of the stick side holds a small amount of **spark-catching** class of tinder (decayed and dry wood fiber, cotton ball or 100% cotton dryer lint, fine steel wool, cattail/dandelion fluff, charcloth, "tinder fungus" from a Birch tree, etc.). The compression (from PV=nRT) causes the tinder stuck on its end to ignite into a little coal, which is then transferred to a nest of tinder material, and blown into ignition. Manufacture can be VERY rough, IF you can create a decent seal. Primitive ones were often roughly cored out bone or wood, with a seal made from greased string, leather, or sinew. The seal makes up for extremely primitive drilling, carving, and finishing. > I will get some rubber rings for the seal and work up a dia. from that but I don't know what differential would be a slip mirror finish. I have never turned anything with as smooth a finish. does it have to be ground?< Not if you are using a ring seal. > Can I use a prefab tube of say brass? As others have said, avoid thinwall tubing. That can flex or burst on you. (Either way, it can fail from flex leakage, or you could "have a bad day" if it bursts. ;-) IMO you're better off drilling out a larger diameter shaft, so you'll end up with a nice, thick wall tube. > I have never bored out anything and don't have a tool holder to use those tools yet. Nor a reamer. Any advice for a real primitive/amateur job? < Simply take a length of metal rod, and split it. - On one piece, drill out a blind hole, then if you have a reamer, ream it smooth. - On the other, start by a tiny dimple of the end with a center drill, then use a round mill bit clamped in your tailstock vice to make a gentle dimple in the end. - Now leave a section diameter as the "handle", then turn down the rest to fit into the hole. (For support you may wish to chamfer the transition of the rod to handle, and make a clearance match on the blind hole socket side.) If you're good, you've made them both the right length to match from the get go. If not, you can leave the rod a bit long, and trim it, but this may require redoing the end dimple. - Lastly, turn a reduced area near the tip end of the rod for the chosen seal method, and add it (O-ring, wound string, leather strap, etc.) If you are winding on a strip of leather, trim the ends to opposing points to allow for a good overlap fill, and glue it to the shaft. (If you're good, you can cut a ring of leather, wet and stretch it, then let it dry- shrink onto the shaft...) Once you have adjusted it for a decent fit (either by opening the hole, or reducing the seal diameter), grease it up to increase the seal quality. The final piston should feel "springy" when pushed, and "pop" when removed. Lastly, chamfer the ends of the two pieces (or round the ends a bit) for a nicer palm fit. Given sufficient blank ends, you can also drill carrystrap throughholes on them. An advanced modern version's socket side ends up being a simple thickwall pipe with a well sealing threaded end cap. This allows the seal to be cracked open to allow the rod to be easily pushed in for storage (then resealed) without it trying to spring back out. The trick is being sure the volume goes to near zero when the piston rod is fully inserted, yet doesn't try to bend it by being too long. (IOW, the end of the motion is stopped by the mating surfaces of the two pieces, NOT the rod hitting the end.) For an even simpler version, you can make this out of a short chuck of thickwall plumbing pipe already threaded on one end, and turning a rod to match it. But with NPT tapered threaded ends, it may be difficult to get a decent seal and yet insure the volume goes to near zero when the rod is inserted fully, because the end position of the inside of the cap may vary slightly as you tighten it. General notes: None of the dimensions are critical, nor are materials. That's why even primitively drilled out bone or wood versions still work fine. You DO need the blind socket hole to be relatively uniform AND smooth, or it can tear up your ring seal, or simply fail to seal properly over its entire length. In use, I typically hold the socket end, and slam the rod end cap on the ground in a fist pounding motion. You'll often hear a "bam" when it works right. The keys are the fit to give you a real seal when pushing in to attain sufficient pressure for ignition of the coal, making sure the internal volume goes to near zero (other than the tiny bit of tinder) when the rod is fully inserted, and to have enough "barrel" thickness to prevent rupture. A larger diameter bore gives you higher compression ratios, but if it is too large it fights back and requires too much push force to compress fully. The overall thickness of the rod must simply be enough to mechanically support it under pressure, even when notched for the gasket. So... a quarter to a half inch diameter rod is typical, and in the right neighborhood. > http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/fire_pistons.htm Check out Jeff's http://firepistons.com and a number of other sites that sell both kits and complete units ready to use. There are also several THOUSAND how to YouTube videos under "fire piston", including some documented start to finish builds done by native craftsmen. Good luck, and be sure to show us what you ended up with! Keith Mc. ------- Re: Fire Pistons Posted by: "Keith Mc" actix~xxPROVIDE.NET Date: Mon Aug 1, 2011 6:37 pm ((PDT)) On Aug 1, 2011, Keith Mc wrote: > So... a quarter to a half inch diameter rod is typical, and in the > right neighborhood. To clarify, that's the inner rod's final diameter, NOT the starting rod's overall diameter. You'll need to start with a couple of inch or so diameter rods. Use whatever feels good to you, when held in the hand. Yes, this would be a GREAT beginner's lathe project. You should be able to whip one up a nice one from a simple length of hardwood dowel or metal bar in one session (especially if you use modern materials like hardware store O-rings for the seal :-). Gee... When I find the time, I'm going to have to try this on MY lathe now too, just to see how fast I can fashion one. Back when I was doing most of my primitive Scouting, we didn't have the benefit of things like lathes to make our fire tools. Everything was normally fabbed by hand (eg with knife, hatchet, hand saw, ax, etc...) We made hand drill fireboards, fire plows, learned flint and steel (F&S) methods, etc... I still teach F&S to our scouts. Primitive coring/boring bars can be made with a chunk of flintnapped rock lashed to a stick (with another stick lashed at 90 degrees as a T-handle), a blacksmithed spoon auger, or you can core via slow hole burning via coals or heated iron. But if you burn it out, you then need to smooth it out by one of several methods. Once you had a decent blind hole fabricated, you then carved your pistons by hand to match it. The seal was typically wound twine or sinew, fat greased. Getting a good seal with that (especially if the bore is rough) isn't trivial, so it often takes a lot of time to learn to fab your first one. IMHO, getting that darn blind hole drilled uniform with clean sides without using modern tools is the REAL challenge. Everything else is simple hand carving. Modern primitive craftsmen can easily fab and fire a Fire Piston from scratch given the materials in less than an hour. But that's often with at least a good knife, or a few more "modern" hand tools (like an auger bit or a blacksmith fabbed "spoon spade bit") already at hand. If you have to fab your tools first (like flintknapping a knife or coring tool), it can take a while. ... But, the effort is normally worth it. If I don't have F&S or optical method, a Fire Piston is definitely my next choice, over most friction methods like a hand drill. They're FAST (and don't cause blisters :-). Using a lathe to make one almost feels like "cheating" to a primitive skills Scouter like me , but what the heck... I'm also a LOT older (and wiser??? ;-) now, so I'm going to do it this time around in the SIMPLEST way possible. Keith Mc. "Fire Power - the ability to make a fire, in numerous ways, under various conditions..." ------- Re: Fire Pistons Posted by: "Wayne" harpanet1x~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Aug 2, 2011 10:24 am ((PDT)) > Can I use a prefab tube of say brass? I think the brass tube would work fine if glued into a nice piece of wood just like you would do if you were making a custom pen. It would look good and be easy to hold. I have plenty around and I think I will give it a try. HWF ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following link is to a periodical from about 1903 that is available for free download. Lots of neat amateur projects for metal or other materials. This is Volume 3 consolidating many individual issues. The PDF file is over 30 mb and takes a while to download even with a high speed connection. There is a useful Table of Contents near the beginning. http://ia700504.us.archive.org work03bostrich.pdf [Unlike Google Books, this site allows old books to be downloaded to Canada and other countries outside the U.S.] ------- Making fishing reels with Sherline [sherline] Posted by: "Flosi" flosigudx~xxtalnet.is flosi2001 Date: Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:13 pm ((PDT)) http://northbranchreels.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/aluminum-frame-reel/ The link is to one particular reel, there are others and the techniques used shown. Flosi ------- Re: Making fishing reels with Sherline Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:58 pm ((PDT)) Thanks Flosi, A very interesting link with so much more than fishing reels covered. Martin ------- NOTE TO FILE: Lots of good tips in above link that are applicable to other machining projects. Machining how-to's, finishing tips, and too much to mention here. Fascinating site has excellent pictures and detailed descriptions. A monumental site that will keep you occupied reading, and provide some motivation for your own projects! ------- Re: New Album / New Photo [sherline] Posted by: "Dan Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:15 pm ((PST)) Reid: By now I suspect you have looked up "machinists jack", discovered how large they are and can't determine a use or a need on Sherline sized mill. You can actually make your own and make them as elaborate as you wish. A few bolts of the size you select, turn a face on the bolt tops, a lock nut and a base. Presto! A machinist's jack. As far as the base, aluminum or brass should fulfill the requirements of any job you might elect to do on the Sherline mill. Grab a piece of hex stock, drill a hole through it, tap for the selected size bolt and, there you are! A little more elaborate? Start with some round stock, machine in some fancy curves and you have a fancy machinist's jack. Hope that gives you one more rainy day project. DanD. ------- Re: New Album / New Photo Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:46 pm ((PST)) Hi everyone, Here are some I made, following the plans in Doug Briney's book http://davehylands.com/Machinist/Projects/Machinist-Jack/ Dave Hylands Shuswap, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com ------- Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 04:03:17 +0000 From: PhilSchempfx~xxgmail.com Subject: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel Galoots- I'm getting the leaf springs in my 2007 Silverado replaced tomorrow. Can anyone suggest a use for the old springs or should I leave them at the garage? Seems like a lot of steel that could be put to some useful galootaceous use, but I'm a bit at a loss what that might be. Phil ------- Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 00:08:03 -0400 From: Ed Bell Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel They make great froes, if you have blacksmithing skills to form an eye on one end. Ed ------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 05:16:24 -0500 From: John Holladay Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel I should think that they would be great for making a real, nice and thick iron for a wooden plane. Doc ------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 06:34:29 -0500 From: Thomas Johnson Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel Hi Phil, I have some knives and a cleaver I bought in Bali a few years ago made from steel pirated from leaf springs... and an adze from South Africa. They all take a great edge and hold it through some serious use and abuse. I leave it to the experts on the list to describe the re-tempering process that should be used; air? water? oil? You're right though --- lotta steel ... good steel. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 08:05:25 -0400 From: Bill Taggart Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel There was an article a while back, I think it was in Wooden Boat magazine, IIRC, about making a slick out of a leaf spring. As was also mentioned, froes. I've seen chunks cut out and used as the bit edge on axe heads as well, by being forge-welded into a steel body. They're good steel for edge tools, but they do take some effort to forge and machine. But if you have the equipment, the disposition, the patience and the stamina, why not? I have a pretty good pile of steel in my garage, including a bunch of leaf springs - and some automobile coil springs as well. Dunno what I'm ever going to do with them, but someday, when we move to our next place and I finally get to set up my forge properly, I intend to start making stuff. Bill T. ------- Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 22:46:57 +1000 From: Noons Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel Hmmm... May I be the first to comment "you suck!"? Froes, perhaps a slick if wide enough. Definitely some firmer chisels as well if not. Drawknives as well. Cheers Nuno Souto in sunny Sydney, Australia ------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 09:33:33 -0400 From: John Ruth Subject: RE: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel My view is that the steel from leaf springs will make "satisfactory" edged tools, but it will not make "great" edged tools because it simply does not have enough carbon to harden to Rc60. Mankind has probably made millions of tools out of leaf springs. It is worth doing because you will get a "useable" tool. But, it will never be a truly great "takes and holds an edge" tool. Just a little bit too soft. John All of whose leaf spring tools were forged by others. ------- Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 09:48:01 -0400 From: "Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq" Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel I believe that most leaf springs are made from 5160 steel. I'm pretty sure files are. However the fact that that it is a leaf spring is largely uninformative. Other steels can be used besides the oil hardening steels; it could be any of the water hardening steels and they have a lot of carbon. More than O1. Take the steel to a grinder with the lights down. Observe the spark trails A spark trail with lots of branchings each ending in a fan-like trail pattern with lots of exciting sparks is an oil hardening high carbon steel. More sparks = more carbon. Air hardening and Manganese steels both have branching trails that throw a spark flare off at right angles with more right angle sparks making up the fan at the end. Water Hardening has oodles of carbon and will be more exciting than O1. It helps to have some O1 around to compare. Here is a PDf with the W1 heat process http://buffaloprecision.com/data_sheets/DSW1TSbpp.pdf What I'd do is cut a couple pieces off with an abrasive blade. Toss 'em in the wood stove and leave 'em overnight. This'll anneal 'em. Then a day or so later prepare two buckets to accept the steel chunks with plenty of fluid. In one put a salt brine in the other any oil. Even used crankcase oil is fine. Then heat 'em both to cherry red and hold 'em there for a few minutes. Then put 'em in the buckets. Hold 'em with tongs don't just drop them in. Mark each one so you don't mix 'em up. They should both come out hard but one will be harder and will cut with a file more easily and probably also gouge the other and that one will likely be the one that got the correct heat treat. I used to be so good at the file test that I could tell you within a point, what the RC hardness of any given piece of steel was. ------- NOTE TO FILE: There are more Heat Treating tips in the file of that same name here. ------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 06:45:28 -0800 From: Phil Schempf Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel And there Bill gets to the heart of the problem. Although I see some benefits from making stuff from the steel, I'm not sure I have the where- withall to get it done. A chunk of steel, actually 6 chunks of steel, roughly 3/8 X 3 X 35, is a bit intimidating to ponder. The froe sounds particularly appealing though. I'll salt them away somewhere in the shop and see what ideas germinate. ------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 08:25:21 -0700 (PDT) From: gary may Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel Hi Cliff --- seems to me that if the leaf springs don't spring anymore, after 5 years on the job, they probably aren't gonna be the kind of steel that holds an edge well. Meaning they're probably OK stock for froes and plowshares, but not files and chisels. Sound about right? Nice tutorial, btw-- gam in rainpouring WA/USA ------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 07:45:36 -0800 From: Phil Schempf Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel Gary - I've been biting my tongue, but you opened the door. The springs aren't soft, the bottom leaf snapped off just behind the axle. I asked why a leaf spring should break and got the 3 years and 36,000 miles excuse. I could maybe see it if the truck had been abused, but I've kept the tires mostly on the ground and haven't been to Dakar lately. Sorry - I'll go back to quietly grinding my teeth (and my new supply of scrap steel) and trying to make lemonade. Phil ------- Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 08:48:28 -0700 From: James Thompson Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel About 20 years ago I noticed that the rear of my '68 Tbird seemed to be sitting low. A suspension shop said I needed new coil springs. After a couple of years of searching (before internet) I found a new pair, and had them installed. Voila! The car now looked like it it used to when new, a little higher in the rear than in front. Fast forward to today. I just noticed the other day that the rear is again lower than the front. It would appear that coil springs as well as leaf springs don't hold their shape over a long period of time. And these were not chinese springs. Nope! Made in the good old U S of A. ------- Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 09:18:30 -0700 From: scott grandstaff Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel > About 20 years ago I noticed that the rear of my '68 Tbird seemed >to be sitting low. Hey Jim: There is a shop outside Medford Or. Old shop on what used to be the road out of town to White City, that re-arcs springs. Coils seldom ever break. They merely sag and usually it's only one leaf that breaks and the rest are a little weak, so they just reset them and have been doing it at least 50 years judging from the paint job on the side of the building. Somebody still does it too, out over the edge of Riverside somewhere. yours Scott Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html ------- Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 09:12:43 -0700 From: scott grandstaff Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel Cliff's advice to anneal it first is absolutely critical. Even if you heat it bright glowing cherry and reforge it into another shape and then quench in water or oil either one, if it wasn't fully annealed first it will desperately want to return to its former shape. Been there. Cherry red and hold it there for a long time, slowly cooling overnight in the ashes. Somewhere on a steep hillside in the woods, is an elegant, feather thin, double hollow ground boot knife blank. Light and beautiful with very deep, once even, hollows the full length. I thought I had it annealed well enough. Had the quench water boiling hot too (hot water gents, hot with a pinch of salt never hurts). But at the first splash..........gone. I tried to reheat and reforge several times, and every time just made it worse, until it simply cracked. Heartbroke, I flipped it over my shoulder, down the gulley behind me. yours Scott Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html ------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 09:16:15 -0800 From: Phil Koontz Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel OCS-- "old Chevy springs." Pronouce it with a Latino style hard "CH", as in chuck. Working with OCS is a rite of passage for novice blacksmiths--I really think that everyone has to do it. Like Scott G, I've tried to make knives, cleavers, slicks, and froes with OCS. I don't own any of them now. Were it me in a similar position now, I would take a two stage approach. 1. Throw them in a pile of scrap iron somewhere to age for a few years, then throw away everything except the piece with the rolled eye. 2. Anneal that piece (cook it in a wood stove some night), then cut it off and make a froe shaped object. Then try out the FSO and throw that away too. I know it sounds futile, but it's the rule. You HAVE to do it once. PK ------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 09:44:39 -0800 From: Phil Schempf Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel Now, here's the voice of a metal worker and from Alaska, where you don't throw anything away that might be put to use someday, particularly heavy things that would cost a bunch to ship. Thanks for the reality check. Phil In Juneau, where shipping is cheaper than Galena, but still dear. ------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 21:06:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Sgt42RHRx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: [OldTools] Leaf spring steel When I was growing up in East Tennessee in the Sixties, there was an Explorer Scout post in Oak Ridge, TN that specialized in forging blades. All kinds of blades from skinning knives to two-handed broadswords, the wavy kris and beyond. They used leaf springs from autos and trucks. I still have the Bowie knife I bought from the post, it holds a keen edge and has the mass to fell small saplings. Cheers, John M. Johnston ------- Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:01:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Conroy Subject: [OldTools] Re: Leaf spring steel Cliff Rohrabacher wrote: "I believe that most leaf springs are made from 5160 steel." This is what Jim Hrsoulas' "The Master Bladesmith" says also. According to Hrsoulas, the "51xx" series is low-chromium alloy steel, I don't know exactly what that implies except that chromium is the main addition in stainless. The "60" means 60 points of carbon (as opposed to the 95-point high-carbon steel used in knives and good plane and chisel blades). 60 point steel still counts as high-carbon steel, sort of at the low end of it; it won't take as sharp an edge as 95-point, but it can be made tougher and more durable for impact. So: leaf springs should be good for axe bits, froes, adzes, hammers, ploughshares. Not so good for knives, chisels, plane blades. Except that, speaking as a theoretician, I suspect that in the hands of an occasional blacksmith the final hardness and toughness will be as much a matter of the success of the heat treatment as the alloy. I'm just a book-reader on steel and forging, so I'm subject to correction from anyone who really knows the subject. Tom Conroy Berkeley ------- Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 13:34:46 -0600 From: Don Schwartz Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Leaf spring steel I know even less than Tom about metals, maybe because I read less. But I have a pair of curvy prybars made from car springs, about 20in long, which are quite useful from time to time. FWIW Don ------- Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 09:27:35 -0800 From: Phil Schempf Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Leaf spring steel Galoots- Here's an update on the sad tale of my leaf springs. Went to pick up the pick up and ended up carrying off only a couple of leaf spring pieces out of the 6 that came off the truck. I asked Shey, a mechanic from Oz (how he got to Alaska I wonder), what they do with the old springs and he showed me their scrap container. It was mostly broken tire rims, but enough other odd bits of steel to get my gears turning. Long story short, if I feel the need for a bit of steel I can probably find it in their scrap bin and save my storage space for other critical items like short bits of wood and bent nails. Phil with visions of a "new" froe lurking in the back of his skull ------- Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:04:07 -0500 From: John Holladay Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Leaf spring steel I used to manage an auto repair/machine shop and I can attest to how the scrap/junk steel and other various metals (mostly cast iron and versions of aluminum alloy) can accumulate over time. We had a trailer that had a section for ferrous metal and another for aluminum. When the trailer would get full, we would hook it up to a truck and tow it to a recycling center for a few bucks. However, when needed, we almost always had something laying around from which we would weld up and fabricate a bracket or something. I can see how a friend in that kind of business could prove to be a good source for raw material to a blacksmith. If I ever get around to attempting some blacksmith work, I will definitely have to keep that in mind since know numerous shops from which I could rob the occasional hunk of iron or steel. Doc ------- Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:28:01 -0700 From: George Langford Subject: [OldTools] Re: Leaf spring steel The key to using a lower carbon steel as a cutting tool is to carburize it. Here's the routine, with a plane blade as the example: 1. Anneal the stuff so you can shape it appropriately with hammer & anvil. 2. Prepare a cutting edge with suitable bevel so you can remember which end is the business end. 3. Heat to red heat and coat the face that will contain the cutting edge with Kasenit while it's hot. 4. Heat some more. 5. Cool off, reheat, recoat, etc. so you've kept the cutting face hot for 20 minutes to half an hour. 6. On the last reheat, get the cutting face red hot and then quench in oil or hot water. 7. Temper at about 300 F; one hour. When I say to carburize the cutting face, I mean that, even though you will be repeatedly resharpening the blade, the very edge will always have that narrow band of carburized, hard steel, and the rest of the bevel will be tough but not all that hard. Link: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/archive/index.php/t-2277.html On routes heavily travelled by overloaded trucks, short pieces of broken leaf springs can often be found lying by the side of the road, where picking them up (carefully) could save someone's life. George Langford in SE PA, coming up for air after reading too many pre- Revolutionary deeds in the original scribes' flowery handwriting, peppered with words like enfeoff, mensuage, emoluments, hereditaments, soccage, and the like. ------- [Making Harold Hall's Grinding Rest] Updated photo series: cutting dovetails on the Taig [taigtools] Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:48 pm ((PDT)) I've uploaded a series of photos showing cutting dovetails on the Taig to the group photos, starting at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/photos/album/174950694/pic /832225776/view This in an on-going project, making the advanced grinding rest shown at: http://www.homews.co.uk/page145.html Next, I need to figure out a low-profile clamping strategy to hold the top slide down while I fly-cut the sliding surface (on the top in the photos). ------- Re: Updated photo series: cutting dovetails on the Taig Posted by: "ED MAISEY" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:03 pm ((PDT)) Paul, Good interesting subject, nice project. Harold has a great site, and he is a very amiable person; he welcomes comments and inquiries. Edmund ------- Re: Updated photo series: cutting dovetails on the Taig Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:54 pm ((PDT)) Yes, his books are great--I have 3-4 of them. Only problem is converting all the metric over to US measurements. I think I found my low-profile solution from his site. A pair of toolmaker's clamps are just thin enough to expose the top of the piece, along with convention clamps on the ends to hold them down. I'll find out for certain tomorrow when I fire it up. The alternative is making some of his little low-profile clamps, but getting them scaled down to under a 1/2" would be tricky, and I don't want to disturb the piece on the table. ------- Re: Updated photo series: cutting dovetails on the Taig Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:47 am ((PDT)) I found this, any use? http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Projects/Fly-Cutting-Clamps/ Martin ------- Re: Updated photo series: cutting dovetails on the Taig Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:44 am ((PDT)) Oh, those are nice. I think the toolmaker's clamp setup will work for now, but those look like they're worth investigating. The only problem I see with them is that accuracy on the flat portion is critical--it's acting as a parallel--and that it will suffer from jaw lift. Hall's low profile designs put the work directly on the table, and several of them produce downward as well as inward force. As it stands, by doing one end at a time, I was able to put the toolmaker's clamps on there while keeping the work firmly clamped at all times, so I know the fly-cut surface will be aligned with the dovetails as precisely as possible. It seems pretty solid, but I haven't actually started cutting yet. ------- Re: Updated photo series: cutting dovetails on the Taig Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:02 am ((PDT)) Paul J. Ste. Marie wrote: > The only problem I see with them is that accuracy on the flat portion > is critical--it's acting as a parallel--and that it will suffer from > jaw lift. Those are potential problems; some of the ways to get around them is to make the whole set of four at once clamped to the table so that the "parallels" are all the same height. Jaw lift concerns demand a relief milled into the corner of each clamp (not shown on the drawing in the website I referenced) and the cantilevered moving jaw shown in the drawing. Martin ------- Re: Updated photo series: cutting dovetails on the Taig Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:14 am ((PDT)) On 6/25/2012, Martin Dobbins wrote: > cantilevered moving jaw shown in the drawing. I looked at that again, but unless the foot on the movable jaw actually contacts the foot, I don't think it's going to have the desired effect. Making the moving jaw much wider than it is tall would help, as would adding a floating piece in the middle with a angled surface such that tightening the screw places a downward force on the angled part, like a Kurt vise. As far as getting the clamp surface parallel, cutting them together makes them the same height, but not necessarily parallel. Hall goes into making parallels in one of his book. The headache is that any inaccuracy in the surface relative to the x/y axis motion is telegraphed into the parallels, and will appear if the parallels are used in an orientation different from the one they were cut in. His trick was to use an angle plate with some buttons, mill a flat across the surface of the buttons, and then put the parallels on the buttons to mill their tops. It was a great example of making items more accurate that the tools that create them. ------- Re: Updated photo series: cutting dovetails on the Taig Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:18 pm ((PDT)) On 6/25/2012, semobill4114 wrote: > Very nice work, Paul. I am enjoying your progress on this project. > The quality of your efforts amaze me. I am but a grasshopper :-) The finish on a couple of the bolts leaves a lot to be desired. I didn't think to start photographing stuff until I started the milling. It is getting a lot closer to being done, even though it just looks like a box of junk at the moment. ------- Making an Anvil [Metal_Shapers] Posted by: "f_martin_iv" f_martin_ivx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Aug 8, 2012 5:53 am ((PDT)) I've decided I'd like to try to do some blacksmithing. I'm sure I don't need to tell anybody here how those kind of ideas create a need for a whole new set of tools. I have plenty of hammers, but I don't have any anvils. I do, however, have several pieces of railroad track from which to make an anvil. The top of the rail is obviously somewhat rounded while the top of an anvil should be nice and flat with sharp square edges. Conceptually, I'm thinking I should be able to bolt a piece of rail to the table on my little Rhodes 7" shaper and machine it flat. However, I'm a little concerned. I understand that rail is pretty hard. While a file will bite the material a little, I suspect it will be very difficult to machine. As I've mentioned in the past, the Rhodes is a light duty machine and not very rigid. I don't want to start a project that places any undue stress on the machine or causes any undue wear. The machine is in great shape and I'd like to keep it that way. What does everybody think? Thanks, Frank ------- Re: Making an Anvil Posted by: "davisx~xxfrizzen.com" davisx~xxfrizzen.com Date: Wed Aug 8, 2012 6:20 am ((PDT)) I can imagine that the top of a used rail could be work hardened. Rails have been known to have brittle fractures. If it is only a surface hardness you may be able to get under it by making a deep cut with a slow advance. ------- Re: Making an Anvil Posted by: "Terry" togle0131x~xxbellsouth.net Date: Wed Aug 8, 2012 8:22 am ((PDT)) Frank, Using railroad track as an anvil in the horizontal position does not make a very solid anvil for blacksmithing purposes. It is recommended to use them in a vertical position. Much more rigid and better suited for a forging operation in this position. See: http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/anvils/making/RR-rail_anvils.php for some ideas using either position. Terry ------- Re: Making an Anvil Posted by: "jeremy youngs" jcyoungs76x~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Aug 8, 2012 8:45 am ((PDT)) Have a friend with a mill? Mill it with carbide. I spent ten hours shaping mine with torch and grinder and wish I had my mill then. Still it's much worth doing as it's far better and safer than an import cast anvil, one chunk of cast a quarter inch under your skin and you always remember it :) ------- Re: Making an Anvil Posted by: "alan lapp" alanbataarx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Aug 8, 2012 10:23 am ((PDT)) I have found that shaping an anvil out of RR track goes MUCH faster if you have access to a big band saw (faster even than a mill since you're parting off material, not converting it to swarf), and can fixture the anvil-to-be on an angle using a wooden sled. Grinding is slow slow slow, and torch cutting leaves an ugly surface that requires a lot of grinding. I read the anvilfire.com link, and really like the idea of welding on a perpendicular head. Another idea to hold in the back of your mind... One of the desirable traits for an anvil is hardness. I read an article a couple of years ago by a smith that fabricated his own anvil by welding solid steel blocks together, then used hard-facing rod to put a very durable surface on the anvil. Seemed like a LOT of work, and you'd have to be a skilled welder. IIRC, he used 75 lbs of rod to assemble and face the anvil. I like the hard-facing idea, however. a ------- Re: Making an Anvil Posted by: "Steel City Phantom" scphantmx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Aug 8, 2012 11:16 am ((PDT)) My dad's a blacksmith and I've swung a hammer or two im my day. Trust me when I say don't bother with the railroad rail anvil. There is not nearly enough mass to do anything useful. It's got enough mass to do some jewelry or copper or silver smithing, but not enough for iron work. Not even close. You can get a half decent 100 - 150 pounder for about $200 on craigslist. That's about the smallest I would recommend for iron or blade work. If you can find a 250 pounder, you're golden; they seem to be the best sweet spot. My dad just placed an order for a brand new 450 pounder for his shop, that will really save time for him. But yes, find one on Craigslist, you will probably spend the same amount of money in tore up end mills and grinder wheels trying to shape that rail into a really bad anvil. ------- Re: Making an Anvil Posted by: "Graham Porcas" grahamporcasx~xxbtconnect.com Date: Thu Aug 9, 2012 1:07 pm ((PDT)) I agree, I use a shaper (Royal 10") and have also done a bit of black- smithing. I tried using some rail as an anvil, forget it! Buy a used anvil on ebay, I paid £100 for mine (100Kg), it's a bit worn but fine for my needs. Use the rail for stock but if it is old and well used you will find the top surface will be work hardened and a pig to get started in the shaper and may be too much for your Rhodes, use carbide tips and expect to get through a few as they will chip, or cut the top surface off first. Rail cuts fine using a hacksaw, I have an old Rapidor, just takes a while. You can make some very nice stakes or small hardy irons using sections of rail, it's good stuff. Small point, you say you want sharp square edges on your anvil, actually you will find you want at least one to be rounded, much more useful, mine has a radius varying from sharp to about 1/4". You can make some really nice tooling using the forge to blank out and then finishing off in the shaper, the two processes go really well together and make for some very satisfying metal bashing. Maybe this could be a topic for a new thread, forging and shaping? Hope you have fun with the smithing, I do, currently building a new forge. Regards Graham ------- Re: Making an Anvil Posted by: "Richard Sutcliffe" ras1x~xxuniserve.com Date: Wed Aug 8, 2012 2:20 pm ((PDT)) A cast anvil is not just a casting. A good one will have a plate of high carbon steel welded on top. The horn is as cast though. All corners are not sharp, one edge is rounded for bending; the sharp edge can be used for nicking and cutting hot material. Of course a handled "hot" chisel is better, and is used on the soft area at the root of the horn. ------- Re: Making an Anvil Posted by: "Rolland" christiansnaplesx~xxaol.com Date: Thu Aug 9, 2012 5:36 am ((PDT)) Hi All- I made a couple and was not happy with them, didn't have the weight or density of a real anvil when finished. Went to the local flea market and bought a nice 50# anvil, just the size I wanted, then made the tooling to fit on it in my machines. The Chinese anvils work fine as well as the older American, which have had their prices driven up by collectors. My advice is to buy the anvil, then make the tooling to fit it yourself. Happy Smithing! (If you really want to make something to use with a anvil, make a small forge, great addition to a metal working shop.) Rolland Christians ------- Screw Trimmer... [taigtools] Posted by: "Mars Bonfire" mbonfirex~xxhotmail.com Date: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:17 am ((PDT)) I just uploaded a folder (Screw Trimmer) to the files which contains a couple of photos and a brief .txt file description of the screw trimming fixture I build for the Taig lathe. I use it to trim over-length machine screws (#2 through #10) for my various projects. Fun to build and it seems to do the job of more accurately trimming screws to length with a better end finish than hacksaws, dremels, electrician crimp pliers, etc. Anyway, my contribution to the recently quite quiet forum. Steve ------- Small Wood Light Lathe [shopbuilttools] Posted by: "mannum3" barrywarneke1x~xxbigpond.com Date: Sun Dec 2, 2012 9:22 pm ((PST)) Hi Gang, I travel about a lot, so I looking to build a small light pen turning lathe, out of 19mm or 3/4 MDF. The finished unit would be about 6" 150mm X 6" 150mm X 18" 450mm. Has this be done before?? any ideas?? I have a pair of small step pulleys, I am thinking trying a sewing machine motor to power it. A fixed head and tail stock, I would use a long shaft to align the 2 end bearings, then fix the third bearing to the headstock. I have ideas of some type of mandrel saver. Am I on the right track? Barry ------- Re: Small Wood Light Lathe Posted by: "Bruce Bellows" bbellowsx~xxrogers.com Date: Sun Dec 2, 2012 10:09 pm ((PST)) The MDF could serve as a base for the machine but I don't think it will hold up very long as a head stock material with bearings. If you can bore bearing holes in MDF you should be able to bore aluminum also using a hole saw and a single arm circle cutter. You could cut the hole out first with a hole saw and then finish with the circle cutter. Bruce ------- Re: Small Wood Light Lathe Posted by: "gdnichols" gdnicholsx~xxaol.com Date: Mon Dec 3, 2012 8:20 am ((PST)) Barry: Maybe you have seen the old Dremel lathe from the late 1970's? It was some kind of black "nylon-filled" plastic and similar to the size you specified. It seems like most really small lathes use the motor as the head stock in a direct drive mode. If you are only going to turn pens on a mandrel it would very much simplify construction. I once built a small lathe using by putting a 1/2" bronze bearing into the wooden headstock, then installing a 1/2" bolt as the shaft. I used a wingnut as the spurs and ground the wings short and sharp. I used a sharpened 1/4" bolt shaped into a crank in a wooden tail stock. The two rails were maple. I made several steady rests out of small pieces of angle iron. I ran mine with a washing machine motor which would be way too big for your purposes. An old, cheap 110v 1/4" electric drill might make a good starting place The drill could be your head stock, bearings, motor and chuck. Maybe you could mount another drill chuck on a block of wood as a tail stock for your mandrel. On the Internet, there are plans for a "Fonly" lathe which is a small mostly wooden DIY lathe which solves many problems you have: http://www.lathes.co.uk/fonly/ Dale ------- Re: Small Wood Light Lathe Posted by: "gdnichols" gdnicholsx~xxaol.com Date: Mon Dec 3, 2012 2:17 pm ((PST)) Mannum3 and Barry: (Where I addressed the previous message to "Barry," it should have been to "Mannum3.") I looked and there are some tiny Dremel lathes on eBay in the $50-$75 range. Still, I like the idea of making a small lathe. If the lathe is to be used exclusively for pen turning, you should probably start with the Mandrel to set the size and placement of the other parts. I like the idea of using two drill chucks to hold the mandrel -- because it eliminates the need to make a Morse taper or some large coarse threads. I tried to find sewing machine motors once and couldn't find any, so I would go with the smallest corded 3/8" VSR drill I could find ($18.99 at Harbor Freight). They are really cheap and you get the motor, variable speed, chuck and mounting flange for one low price. Another plus is that the drill and chucks were designed to take the thrust you would get as you tightened the tailstock down. It's pretty easy to get the second drill chuck from some junk cordless tool the rest is just a frame to hold the working parts in the right position. Dale ------- Re: Small Wood Light Lathe Posted by: "David G. LeVine" dlevinex~xxspeakeasy.net Date: Mon Dec 3, 2012 4:13 pm ((PST)) I think that some aluminum extrusion (like 80/20) might be a better idea. The greater rigidity and better stiffness, combined with a urethane foam fill should be well damped. The foam fill is being used on high end cars for vibration control. Dave 8{) ------- Pen Lathe and other bits (was Small Wood Light Lathe [shopbuilttools]) Posted by: "Earle Rich" erich10983x~xxaol.com Date: Mon Dec 3, 2012 2:40 pm ((PST)) http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets/72157624195341926/ Here's a set of photos of the lathe and other tools I made to take on the road. Search through the sets to find other, more recent photos of accessories such as the small table saw, drill press, pneumatic press and others. I load them into the RV (soon now) and take them to Florida from New Hampshire to make pens and seam rippers and other parts. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets/72157631426511100/ The latest sets show the process and results of vacuum dyeing of pieces used in my work. I perhaps go beyond the usual level of techniques, but having a background in electronic and mechanical engineering and a love of machines, I have a lot of fun. Earle Rich www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets http://www.gnhw.org/ Guild of New Hampshire Woodworkers http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/granitegeek http://mvartisans.wordpress.com ------- Re: Pen Lathe and other bits Posted by: "gdnichols" gdnicholsx~xxaol.com Date: Mon Dec 3, 2012 4:12 pm ((PST)) Earl: Where did you get the pan-like base casting the lathe is built on? Dale ------- Re: Pen Lathe and other bits Posted by: "Earle Rich" erich10983x~xxaol.com Date: Tue Dec 4, 2012 2:31 am ((PST)) There was a question about where the base of the lathe came from. I've worked in industrial settings for most of my working career. So many times, a project or product comes to an end and instead of the dumpster, I intercept machines and parts and take them home with the full knowledge of my supervisors. "Make it go away" is the usual order, they don't care where it goes to. I also am a regular visitor to electronic surplus stores where I'm welcome because many times I can tell the owners what a particular part or machine was used for and its real worth. In New Hampshire, most of the towns have a transfer station where metal, wood, paper and other recyclables are sorted by the citizens and put in the appropriate bins. Our local 'dump' is a good example. The people from the road commission know everyone and Saturday is a a regular social gathering for people. I'm good friends with them and can even put in a request for something special and they will set the item aside for me. We have a building set aside for goods with a lot of life and use left so people are good about sharing books and electronics goodies. Because we live in a technology area, we have especially good pickings. That particular base came from a discarded machine that I don't even remember picking up. I have a lot of Thompson shafting, tiny to large DC, AC, stepper and servo motors and other exotic motion control parts. I worked a lot with sapphire crystal pullers, wirewound resistor equipment, pneumatic and hydraulics and a lot of other technologies including windmills and solar equipment. I used to change careers every seven years or so just to do something different and to learn new skills. Now that I'm retired, I get to play full time with the toys I've collected. On my short street in rural New Hampshire, we have three of us with full machine and woodworking shops. There's a lot of cooporation between us so that makes it more fun. Anyhow, I'm doing a bit of rattling on here, after getting up at 3:00 AM because my body is still on London time after yesterday's long day in the air. Someone's previous message about 80-20 stock is a good one for machines of all types. I've used and have a lot of their extrusions and for small machines, it's hard to beat for putting basic frames together. If you look at my Flickr sets, you can see how I've used it a lot. Check to find if there are any metal or woodworking clubs in your area. We Makers usually are pretty good at finding each other and we like to share. If you want resources, Nuts & Volts magazine, Home Shop Machinist, Machinist's Workshop, Digital Machinists and Make Magazine are all excellant sources for inspiration. The internet also a great place for information as you probably already know. This Yahoo site, now that it's become alive again is almost as good as the old newsgroups that we used to have. As you can tell, I've been at this for a while. I'm going to group all the woodtuning sets I have on Flickr into a collection so it will be easier to navigate. Probably do that today. Earle Rich www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets http://www.gnhw.org/ Guild of New Hampshire Woodworkers http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/granitegeek http://mvartisans.wordpress.com ------- Pen lathe and other projects Posted by: "Earle Rich" erich10983x~xxaol.com Date: Tue Dec 4, 2012 6:37 am ((PST)) I've combined all the lathe sets into one collection to make it easier for folks to zero in on their interests. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/collections/72157632170512980/ Now that I'm home, I have a few more things I want to make before heading south before Christmas. Time to get busy! Earle Rich ------- A little off topic! [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "hglent" hglentx~xxfrii.com hglent Date: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:11 am ((PST)) I know this is a "metal working group," so I reason since I have cut metal on my 10" Craftsman Table Saw the question will survive the rigors. A long story short... I loaned the 10 inch Craftsman table saw, which my father bought new in the 50's, to the Step Son. he saw has operated flawlessly for many years until the boy genius could not figure out how to adjust the tension on the fence. He broke the hand lever off. Also, by accident, he broke off the crank handle on the arbor angle adjust. Being the jovial person that I am, I did a Sears Parts search for the broken handles. Obviously the answer--- no luck. Sears has stopped supporting the older tools. The question; Where do I find a supplier for the older hand cranks and parts used on these tools? Thanks for all the help on this, and yes, again, I learned don't loan out my tools. Marry Christmas to ya all. Paul K. WA0BAG ------- Re: A little off topic! Posted by: "inspiro_creo" david.deboizex~xxverizon.net Date: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am ((PST)) > The question; Where do I find a supplier for the older hand cranks > and parts used on these tools? Sorry to hear about your saw. Like yourself I learned a long time ago not to lend my good tools to anyone, including family. You may be out of luck finding exact replacements for these vintage machinery. Join the OWWM forum and look in the BOYD (Bring Out Your Dead) Woodworking Machine classified section. I've had some luck finding and selling some odd parts. You may luck out there with the part(s) or another exact table saw you can then part it out. Other then continuing searching ebay, the internet is your other choice. There are websites that sell knobs, handles and hand wheels, but will not be an exact reproduction of yours, just a replacement part. Byw, what model is it? David ------- Re: A little off topic! Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8as Date: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:42 pm ((PST)) you have a lathe ? you can do a lot w/ hacksaw, files & cold chisels ... get a mill or SHAPER .when you are able ..(smaller horizpntal mills, bigger than crftsmn are reasonably cheap as are larger shapers, almost scrap cost & tooling is cheaper than a mill, it is a LATHE bit... & horizontals were the main mills used before bridgeport arrived in 1938 you just get a crick in your neck from sometimes cocking your head 90 degrees). an oxy /acetylene torch .is a real help...TURN ,BORE, BUSH, BRAZE. restoring to SERVICE, not to aesthetic perfection, becomes an end to itself .....the added bonus is, you become a much more proficient machinist than a parts replacer & you build your shop inexpensively. best wishes doc ------- Re: A little off topic! Posted by: "Steve Davis" sdavis727x~xxcox.net Date: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:36 pm ((PST)) I think McMaster Carr has hand wheels in a variety of shapes and sizes. ------- Re: A little off topic! Posted by: "Jim Ash" ashcanx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:17 pm ((PST)) I attended a one-day seminar on basic plastic molding techniques from a company called Reynolds Advanced Materials (look on the web). They offer these seminars at their retail outlets dotted across the country. They send you home with a starter kit with instructions and a DVD that retails for not much less than the price of the seminar itself. If you're into learning new manufacturing processes, they've got quite an assortment of cool materials to choose from, and will provide technical answers for your specific questions. The processes we were shown were all room-temperature, and didn't require vacuum or pressure pumps. Their variety of materials is pretty staggering. A lot of their stuff goes into theatrical props and effects, but also manufacturing and prototyping. One guy in the seminar was involved in developing full-sized anatomically accurate (even down to the material textures) human dummies, organs and all, to teach surgical techniques to medical students. It certainly opens up a lot of new possibilities. The crank on my trash-picked table saw has been broken, like you describe. I looked around for a good handwheel from one of my tools as a pattern, and decided the tailstock handwheel from my TH-42 should work pretty well. I pulled the handle and have it sitting aside, but I haven't copied it yet. The plan is to create a rubber mold from the original, then mold up one or two and see how it goes. I suppose if you had the broken pieces of the old handles, you could glue them together long enough to work as a pattern, or maybe even fill in the missing pieces with JB weld or some equivalent, then file/sand to finish. Jim Ash ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following messages were in the myfordlathes group, but some of the ideas can certainly be used or adapted to make steady rests for other metal lathes, or even for woodturning lathes. ------- [myfordlathes] Re: Are there any plans for fabricating an ML7 fixed steady ? Posted by: "Alan Moore" a.j.moorex~xxbtinternet.com Date: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:58 am ((PST)) Alan Moore wrote: >> When I think about cutting a steady out by hand from 1 inch plate I'm >> not sure that 'fun' is the first adjective which springs to mind. On 29/12/2012 11:42, Kevin wrote: > If no mill is available you can save a lot of effort by drilling holes. > They don't need to be super-accurately placed, and the drilling > machine takes a lot less effort to operate than a hacksaw! Kevin That's true, but the hacksaw tends to take the shortest path between the holes, so you end up with a lot of scallop-shaped bits which you have to file away to get down to the profile. It's still hard work! Alan ------- Re: Are there any plans for fabricating an ML7 fixed steady ? Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:28 am ((PST)) Hard work helps you to stay fit and is good for the soul as well as your pocket! ;D ------- Re: Are there any plans for fabricating an ML7 fixed steady ? Posted by: "Robert Mitchell" rmm200x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:41 am ((PST)) For cutting ferrous material, it is really hard to beat a plasma torch. Run on just compressed air and electricity, and cost less than a good welding rig. ------- Re: Are there any plans for fabricating an ML7 fixed steady ? Posted by: "Mike Hicknell" mikehicknellx~xxrogers.com Date: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:49 am ((PST)) A few suggestions: (i) go to your local scrapper and get a steel pipe with flange to the approximate size and have them cut the flange off the pipe; this will give you the circular shape you need and by welding or drill and tapping bits and bobs you'll soon have your steady rest; (ii) make a drawing and go to a machine shop and have them cut the design with their plasma cutter; and (iii) make the steady out of wood (while obviously not as strong as steel or cast it would be suitable for most of the work undertaken on a Myford lathe. ------- Re: Are there any plans for fabricating an ML7 fixed steady ? Posted by: "JOHN QUIRKE" jjquirkex~xxeircom.net Date: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:36 pm ((PST)) Hi. Have you considered the Hemmingway kit? http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Steadies_for_Myford_Ser ies_7_Lathes.html Yours in the workshop John ------- Re: Are there any plans for fabricating an ML7 fixed steady ? Posted by: "Bob Hamilton" bobx~xxhamilton-bob.freeserve.co.uk Date: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:45 am ((PST)) > Hard work helps you to stay fit and is good for the soul as well as > your pocket ! I am self employed and decided that it would a good idea to have an extended break this year. The intention was to get the Kayak out a few times and maybe even do a couple of outings on the bike. Well, we have hardly had a day without rain or wind, my Kayaking friend has problems with her wrists, my wife has a cold, etc. etc. so I’ve done nowt. The mysterious 12lbs that I shed a couple of months ago has returned and I feel like a Sloth. A bit of serious hacksawing is looking good at the moment????? Bob ------- Re: Are there any plans for fabricating an ML7 fixed steady ? Posted by: "Paul Kennedy" clankennedy2004x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:07 am ((PST)) LOL you must be fae uuup norrrth ------- nl7 steady [was Re: Are there any plans for fabricating an ML7 fixed steady ?] Posted by: "Norman Lloyd" norman_lloydx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:55 am ((PST)) one thing you could do is buy or *rent* a large-diameter drill bit, like those made for cutting door knob holes (except bimetal or HSS). I have a small set that seems to perform well, and I have seen many rental shops will rent you the cutter on an hourly basis. One more thing to look at is once you have it roughed by whatever means, bolt it in place on the bed and *bore* it out to size. That way it is accurately round, and fits exactly to your lathe with no hacksaw/drill scallops. ------- Re: Are there any plans for fabricating an ML7 fixed steady ? Posted by: "c j.s" callinicus1953x~xxyahoo.co.uk Date: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:30 am ((PST)) Hi Guys, Keith Fenner over on You-Tube keeps promising to do one of his videos on making a steady, might be worth looking in occasionally to see what he is up to. For those who have not seen his exploits, and you can spare a day or two to watch, he is one of the better reasons for you-tube to exist. CJ(UK) ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following message cropped up in a conversation about how to remove the metal name plate on an Atlas machine with minimal damage to the plate, which is held on with drive screws (looks like a rivet head with a bit of twist on the shaft and twists as it is driven into a hole). See the text file here called "Atlas Repair or Fitting" with same subject in January 2013 if you want to read more on the overall name plate removal process. But the suggested modification of one pair of pliers in your workshop could be useful for many different problems we might encounter. ------- Re: Removing the Name Plates [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "sapperd06" sapper6x~xxroadrunner.com Date: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:14 am ((PST)) Bulldog pliers are also known as end cutting pliers. you can google them. The problem with most standard pliers is that they are of the midcut knife type. Which means the knife point or the V is somewhere towards the middle of the total width of the knife. That means you will have to get the head of the rivet or drive screw far enough away from the data plate so the V will go behind the head and not cut into the side of the round head. This is shown when you cut a piece of wire and each side of the wire has a 45 deg angle on it. The alternative I did was to regrind the pliers so its outside knife edge is flat, thus making it into a flush cut. This is shown by cutting a wire and the outside piece will be cut at 90 deg and the inside will be cut at 45 deg. This would require very little space between the dataplate and the bottom of the rivet or drivescrew. They are made by several companies, but are typically used in the precious metal craft so they can mate up 2 90 deg wires instead of 2 45 deg wires. Also it was just easier and cheaper to grind an old set of side cutters than to search for and buy a set that may be too weak to handle the hardened rivet or drive screw. This is also typical of Bulldog or end cutting pliers, and you could grind either type to become a flush cut. Don ------- new article: Cutting Corners [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.com Date: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:40 am ((PST)) This article, intended for those new to the hobby of metal working, explains how to make a punch which cuts round corners in thin plastic sheet. If you are interested, please see: http://rick.sparber.org/pcp.pdf Your comments and questions are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. For the full index of my articles, see rick.sparber.org. Rick ------- Making a salmon fishing reel [myfordlathes] Posted by: "busybeingrelaxed" qthurtlex~xxgmail.com Date: Tue May 7, 2013 1:33 am ((PDT)) Wow - I'm impressed by this series of images about how to make a salmon fishing reel (on a Myford). Link is here http://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/thread25678.html Best wishes Q ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:49:45 -0700 From: scott grandstaff Subject: [OldTools] Hopeless Hammer Obsessive lright you guys! You know what you do to me? Do you? I started this hammer about, I dunno, maybe 5 years ago. This one was fun because it had been through a fire. Now usually this is not a good recommendation for a tool of any kind. But being a hammer, it annealed the steel soft as 7-UP. That meant, I could work on it, with files!! I love to file steel. Sometimes when I am having an otherwise bad day, I will chuck up a piece of scrap and just cut it. Something about the rhythm and watching the work slowly change. The precision of it all. Making such slight adjustments in your stroke and watching it change the shape of the work.It's just magic. So when I had finished my filework, I hardened/tempered it into something new. Well new to me. And I found out something wonderful! Used motor oil makes for a spectacular finish! I had some osage orange out the other day for another project. A spokeshave that went off to Hawaii. I found a spare stick when I was looking for the shave stock. I laid it aside for something nice. Wanna hit something yet?? Dig this: http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/hampin4.jpg http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/hampin3.jpg http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/hampin2.jpg yours Scott Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:30:59 -0500 From: Wesley Groot Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hopeless Hammer Obsessive Scott, that's a dandy! Used motor oil is the preferred tool steel quench of just about every old school smith I know. Unfortunately for me, it makes my sinuses slam shut faster than a garage door with a broken spring. (Which is why I use peanut oil.) At Old Cedar Forge, where I got my start, Jerry has a beautiful '57 Kenworth and I bet the quench oil for all 8 of his forging stations used to come from that. Nice work! Wes ------- Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:54:21 -0700 From: Greg Isola Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hopeless Hammer Obsessive Beautiful, Scott! What's the color/finish on the handle? I've been fiddling with a set of osage chisel handles for eons, and with a straight BLO finish, they are much yellower than yours. Ok, sorta golden, but I prefer the color of your hammer handle. Did you color it at all, or does osage just vary that much? Thanks, GI Greg Isola Alameda, CA ------- Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:00:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Conroy Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hopeless Hammer Obsessive Hi, Greg, FWIW, my experience of one piece of osage orange, used by bits over a period of decades, has been that it changes color more than any wood short of cocobolo, but that it takes its time. Mine was medium golden on the surface when I got it, was a harsh yellow when cut (and I've read that the sawdust is a dyestuff, with the color water-soluble even from solid wood), and has darkened into a comfortable deep milk chocolate brown. If I remember correctly, the last time I cut a piece it had darkened even inside, though not as much as on the surface. The hobbithouse page on osage orange has some dramatic pictures of darkening and color variation: http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/osage%20orange.htm There is a web site on osage orange, especially for making archery bows: http://osageorange.com/ Tom Conroy Berkeley ------- Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:33:28 -0400 From: William Ghio Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hopeless Hammer Obsessive The pic below is of the two fids I made out of Osage Orange. The top one was oiled and set in the sun for two weeks while the bottom one is fresh from the lathe. The color shifts on Osage are dramatic. We used it on a boatbuilding project and I remember times when a fresh cut would be left out at 5 PM and, say a hammer, was left across the timber. The next morning there would be the outline where the hammer had shaded the fresh wood from the moonlight. It is the most photo reactive wood I have run across. Bill http://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442x~xxN07/8976784779/ ------- Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 20:27:58 -0400 From: Troy Livingston Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hopeless Hammer Obsessive Scott, I like it and agree filing can be therapeutic. Most of my friends think I am nuts but I actually had fun filing the last set of clock hands I had to make. You got that color just by quenching in used motor oil? I've been using fresh stuff for years but never got color like that! Troy ------- Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 18:07:34 -0700 From: James Thompson Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hopeless Hammer Obsessive You can get a glorious black color on tools just like you can on cast iron pans. Just wipe on oil (fresh, used, or edible) and set the BBQ or oven to 350 degrees and cook. Repeat until you have the color you want. The carbon will stay on after the liquid is cooked off. ------- How to machine a Headstock [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "manfredv1" manfredv1x~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:21 pm ((PDT)) Hi All I am looking at building my own headstock using an off-the-shelf spindle. I would like machine something very similar to the Sherline headstock case or housing although it does not have to be - I would just prefer a flat mounting surface to something round!! My problem is that I do not have the knowledge as to how to ensure that the two holes for the bearing are concentric and parallel, especially given that I would have to remove the work piece from the mill or lathe. Any suggestions are welcome - I have access to a Sherline mill and a Taig lathe. Manfred ------- Re: How to machine a Headstock Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:45 pm ((PDT)) Hi Manfred, Not sure I'm understanding the question, the part about a flat vs round mounting surface. What round mounting surface is there on a Sherline headstock? A drawing of what you have in mind, even a pencil sketch would be very helpful. That aside; a Sherline headstock is a pretty big part to make on a Sherline mill. I would consider making it up of several pieces of tooling plate bolted together to make a box. The ends of the box would contain the bearing seats. Assemble the box, bearings and shaft, tighten the bolts while rotating the shaft to ensure it's running free, then match drill and pin to preserve the alignment. If you do make it in one piece, the best way to ensure coaxiality of the bearing seats is to line bore them. One way to do this: mount the rough headstock on the lathe cross slide. A shaft is held in a lathe collet, runs through the workpiece, and into a live center mounted in the tailstock. This shaft has a cutting tool secured to it. Spin up the shaft and cutter, and use the Z axis to move the work past the cutter. Either way, it's an interesting project, just might have to take a shot at it myself. Looking forward to further discussion. David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: How to machine a Headstock Posted by: "Manfred Vormbaum" manfredv1x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:13 pm ((PDT)) I do agree that it makes more sense to assemble the headstock from separate pieces, however, I do not trust my ability to machine the individual pieces to a sufficient standard to be able to mount them in such a way that the spindle would be parallel to the mounting surface or perpendicular to the x and y axis. If there is an idiot proof (or at least resistant!) way to do so I would love to know about it. The way I would have thought of machining the head is somewhat along the lines of what you describe to make it in one piece on a lathe. The housing would be round - to me this this would create some issues as to how to mount this tube so that the spindle is perpendicular to the x and y axis. The other problem that I foresee is that the diameter of the 2 holes for the 2 bearings would have to be larger than the main hole through the rod in order to be able to preload the bearings. This is easy to do for one bearing but to be able to do so for the other means removing the workpiece (messing up the alignment) and machining the other hole. I suspect my terminology is a bit mangled but for a picture of what I mean as to the "holes" for the bearings see the images of the headstock here: http://metaltronics.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/replacing-sherline-spin dle-bearings/ If you do not do it this way you need to put together a sophisticated spindle as Don Rogers's pictures show in the group's pictures - again looks too clever for my skill level. Manfred -------- Re: How to machine a Headstock Posted by: "Andy M" trumpy81x~xxoptusnet.com.au Date: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:23 am ((PDT)) GDay Manfred, DC explained the process to you but I guess you were not able to understand it. Construct a cube using, say 10mm thick plate, screwed or welded together, then you would need to rough drill some large holes in the approximate locations for your spindle bearings. You would then bolt the 'cube' to the cross slide of the lathe so that the spindle bearing holes are directly inline with the center of the spindle. Now you would need to place a line boring bar between 'centres' and adjust the cutter so that it will remove material from the rough drilled holes for the spindle bearings. Then you would move the carriage back and forth until both holes have been cut to the proper dimensions. You would need to adjust the cutter several times in order to get to the correct dimensions. If you were cutting pockets for the bearings, then the process is the same, but you would have to move the cutter from one side of the 'cube' to the other without cutting between the two spindle bearing holes. You could use a solid piece of aluminium for the 'cube' if you wanted to but that would be more expensive. If you are still having trouble visualising the process, goto YouTube and search for 'line boring'. You should find several videos on the process, but bear in mind these will be for much larger machines than the Sherline. The principles are still the same though. Keith Fenner does a good job of explaining line boring but he uses very big machines. Same principal though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lLBAOUXrX8 Regards Andy M ------- Re: How to machine a Headstock Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:35 am ((PDT)) Manfred Vormbaum wrote: > I do agree that it makes more sense to assemble the headstock from separate pieces, however, I do not trust my ability to machine the individual pieces to a sufficient standard < My suggestion to do it as an assembly is intended to reduce that problem. An assembly can be adjusted. Properly designed, it does not rely on close machining tolerances for fit and function. It is important to understand how design geometry enables precision assembly. Consider the problem of making a matched pair of bearing blocks to be bolted to a platform in perfect alignment. The critical dimension is that the distance from the bearing centerlines to the mounting surfaces on each block is the same. Note that the value of this dimension is far less important than that the blocks are identical. The way to make them identical is to machine them together. Rough out two pieces of tooling plate, stack then under your mill clamps, and machine their profiles and bearing bores as one. That's a matched set. Clearance for the assembly bolts should be sufficient to adjust final alignment. Assemble with the mounting bolts finger tight and the shaft running through the bearing blocks. Carefully, incrementally, tighten while turning the shaft to ensure free running. Please provide more detail about what you want to do and why. I'm getting about interested enough to make one myself. If I do, I'll post a photo illustrated maker article. Best, DC ------- Re: How to machine a Headstock Posted by: "manfredv1" manfredv1x~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:10 pm ((PDT)) At the moment the solution that appeals to me most, given my tools and skills it the one proposed by DC where I would machine the critical components next to each other at the same time on a mill. What I am looking at making is making the spindle housing as for the industrial spindle range as in part number 6503: http://www.sherline.com/spindles.htm I am looking at building a lathe and mill using linear rods and have no use for the more complex dovetail supports of the standard headstock. I have also just realised that the industrial spindle headstock housing and spindle (#6503) costs just $20 more than only the spindle (#6511). Add in the bearings and the headstock should be free. LOL I will write to Sherline to follow up on this. Will keep you posted. Manfred ------- Crowned Pulley [shopbuilttools] Posted by: granthamsx~xxwiktel.com rodney_grantham Date: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:46 pm ((PDT)) With this talk about metal lathes, you folks might like to see my latest adventure building a 2 x 72 belt sander. Making a crowned pulley was something I hadn't done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXLXDj-L8aw is a short video showing my progress so far. Rod ------- Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available [sherline] Posted by: "Donnie" zerodbx~xxbellsouth.net Date: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:27 am ((PST)) I hope I am not bugging too much with my questions. But, now, I am faced with the possibility of needed to mass produce a small part. I only have the lathe and it is not CNC. The item(s) are a small Cannon. The dimensions at the moment are undetermined, but as a rough guess, the overall length of the gun would be 15mm L and 4mm Diam. or about 5/8 L and 3/16 Diam. They will have a Bore as well. All the basic shapes and tapers (within reason) and not too elaborate. More of representation than pure scale accuracy. Now, how to reproduce these so that about 80 of these would look nearly identical. I had thought about taking some HSS 1/4 tool blank and use it lengthwise. On the Blank, I would somehow carve out 1/2 of the shape of the Cannon. Mount the tool - chuck up 1/4 rod of brass and slowly move the tool inwards to make the entire cut at once. Or does this sound like the most ridiculous thing to do? I would like for the Cannons to at least have a taper, the end (cascabel) and the tip to have some decent shape to them. No problem making one or three, but making about 80 !! I have got to come up with another idea. I am not even close to having any CNC setup, plus the learning curve as I would need to have these done withing perhaps a month of time. Thanks guys. Donnie ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: "Flosi Guðmundsson" flosigudx~xxtalnet.is Date: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:00 am ((PST)) Hi Donnie, How about formtool made from gauge plate that would make the whole profile in one go? regards, Flosi ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:00 pm ((PST)) Hi Donnie, "Bugging"? No problem. Questions are the life blood of any Forum. You can make or buy a lathe duplicator. Make or buy a lathe collet stop to control the depth of the bore. Form tools on the Sherline are a no no. Consume too much oomph, and lead to chatter. Joe Martin advocates splitting up the force required by making the form in two tools. Catch me off list for more details. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: "Mike Bauers" mwbauers55x~xxwi.rr.com Date: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:25 pm ((PST)) You may want this, or like it, for your lathe. http://vanda-layindustries.com/html/duplicator.html Think of it as a hands-on, manual version of a cnc-lathe. Best to ya... Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi, USA ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: "Xxxxx" djhmisx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:05 pm ((PST)) I would also like info on a pattern duplicator. I know a similar thing exists for woodworking lathes, where tools are held by hand, but wondering it would work on a manual lathe where tools are held in a slide. Best, Don ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: "JERRY G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:48 pm ((PST)) Hi Don, yes, it will work because the lead screw is disconnected by removing a screw between the saddle and the saddle nut. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: "Flosi Guðmundsson" flosigudx~xxtalnet.is Date: Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:17 pm ((PST)) > Form tools on the Sherline are a no no. I had never heard of this no no and seemed to recall seeing instances of this on the internet apart from doing it myself, so I googled and found among other things this: http://www.sherline.com/latheins.htm Just above fig. 13 it says: The width of the cutting edge must be less than 2-1/2 times the smallest diameter. So it seems nevertheless that making one formtool to make the cannons in one go is not a good idea and would have to be split into two or more operations. regards, Flosi ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:51 pm ((PST)) Hi Donnie, taking your numbers. " 15 mm (.590") Length" "4 mm (.15748") Diameter" Applying the rule; "Width of cutting edge shall be less than two and a half times the smallest diameter." If the smallest diameter is .15748", then the width of the cutting edge must be less than .3937" 2.5 times .15748 = .3937" Picture taking a toolbit with a cutting edge 10 mm (.3937") wide and feeding it into your stock. "Chatter City" Your best bet is a lathe duplicator such as made by Vandelay makes. Or make one yourself. You have got to keep the "chip load" down. Especially in brass, which tends to grab and likes a scraping action. Hope this helps. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: "Flosi Guðmundsson" flosigudx~xxtalnet.is flosi2001 Date: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:23 am ((PST)) 4mm is the largest diameter so the smallest would be less than that, say 3mm so in that case the width of the tool would be 7.5mm. Anyway, I got another idea. How about making just one piece and then cast the other pieces with something like Cherrobend? And paint with bronze paint. regards, Flosi in Iceland ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:43 am ((PST)) Vandelay's Sherline lathe duplicator is not the best. The support for the pattern piece is attached to the tailstock only, not supported at both ends. I've used it to turn pen blanks and had them come out narrower at the headstock end than they should have, even after setting and measuring before starting to cut. Something that held the pattern to the lathe bed at both ends would be better, but it would be more involved. I keep meaning to work out the specifics, but I haven't made the effort to obtain the one necessary ingredient: the 'round tuit'. Tom Bank ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:25 am ((PST)) Donnie, I have done some work with lathe duplicators, both a Vandelay and a similar one I made myself. I just posted seven pictures of the process of cutting a number of duplicate brass pieces in my "Bank's Bunglings" album in this group's photos. They should be the first seven there. I think that for what you are describing you could get brass rod and just hold it in a chuck. Then either buy the Vandelay duplicator or make your own as I did for this job. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Mass Producing on lathe - no CNC available Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:37 am ((PST)) Jerry, Don, & Donnie, Vandelay says to disconnect the lead screw, but I don't bother. Instead, I leave the follower-cutter block just a hair loose so I can slide and turn the f-c block. That way I can get into undercuts, as would likely be a part of Donnie's guns if he did them on the end of a rod held in the lathe chuck, like I did in the pictures I posted in my album. Regards to all, Tom Bank ------- Group File - Tee-Nuts from Trash [sherline] Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:05 pm ((PST)) I've been working for a while on a set of small accessory tools to use with the lathe and mill. Finally got them done, so I took some pictures and wrote up what I have and now I've uploaded the write-up to the group's files section. If you have noticed that you throw a lot of little steel stubs that were used to hold workpieces in lathe chucks into your junk bin or trash and would not be adverse to making something useful from them, you might consider looking at what I've done. Since I uploaded it in PDF form, it took more than the Yahoo limit for a single file, so I split it in two. You can find them in the group's files section under the title "Tee-Nuts from Trash," Parts 1 and 2. And on Yahoo and "Neo", I will add that to get from a group's main page to either the photos or the files sections, the best/fastest way I've found to do it is to right click on the one you want and then open it in a new browser tab or window. Until I found that, I wasn't able to get into the files with Neo. A note on what you'll see the write-up: When I make tee-nuts, I make them from round bits and pieces, then l only cut two sides straight for the tee-slots. I leave the other two sides rounded and whatever length the diameter of the stock allows. Why? Because it's a lot easier to fumble the nut into the slot if the flange is long enough that you can see or feel where that leading edge is in relation to where you want it to go. Most notably, you might have noticed this is the case when trying to fit the tee-nuts for the mill vise's rotary base or the new style lathe compound slide in place. The tool set I came up with handles tee-nuts with flanges of any reasonable length. Regards, Tom Bank P.S.: I hope this doesn't make anyone at Sherline think I am trying to cut into one of their profit centers. ------- Re: Group File - Tee-Nuts from Trash Posted by: "Thayer Syme" thayerx~xxgryffinaero.com tcsyme Date: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:56 pm ((PST)) Tom, This is very nice. I have filed it away for a rainy day. Thayer ------- David Clark? [SherlineCNC] Posted by: grangerroadsx~xximonmail.com cornbeltroute Date: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:50 am ((PDT)) David, hi. A year ago I asked several questions about using a Sherline lathe as an automatic lead screw machine to make model railroad wheels, to which you responded with messages that included a video of how such wheels can be made. I see that you've removed the video from YouTube. Might I get a copy of your video to study? I moved last fall and am just now getting my office and shops set up and ready to tackle projects. Wheels are uppermost on my list to tackle. Thanks much, Brian Chapman Cedar Rapids, Iowa ------- Re: David Clark? Posted by: dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net a3sigma Date: Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:21 am ((PDT)) Hi Brian. It's here: http://youtu.be/d2kFXjM9W64 http://youtu.be/d2kFXjM9W64 You may have lost the link when I replaced the first video one of better quality -- better camera angles and got rid of the drill wobble. David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Follow Rest [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "Thomas D. Dean" tomdeanx~xxwavecable.com Date: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:26 am ((PDT)) I have been wanting a follow rest. The one shown in David Clark's video is nice. David, did you make that? I have the Sherline follow rest. Searching, I found. http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/accessories.htm#taig_steady_rest And, he uses a 3/8" OD x 0.1555" thick x 1/8" ID sealed radial ball bearing. I have purchased parts for other projects from: https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Catalog I selected 'Bearings' --> 'Ball' --> 'Metal' And then the bore = 0.125, OD = 0.375, type = double shield, overall width = 0.156 I do not know enough about bearings to choose. I found some like: S9912Y-E1238PS2M A 7Y55-PSS3712WM I did the same thing on McMaster-Carr and found a larger choice. On MscDirect, I found a 'Radial Ball Bearing', MSC #: 35433200. Is this what I am looking for? Tom Dean ------- Re: Follow Rest Posted by: dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net a3sigma Date: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:25 am ((PDT)) Hello Tom, I did make it. The bearing I used is McMaster pn 1434K25 The rest is 3/8 inch MIC6 tooling plate, McMaster pn 86825K761 It's made in 2 pieces: a block that bolts to the -X side of the saddle, and the bearing plate bolted to the -Z side of the block. Clearance around the screws permits alignment to the headstock, while the self- aligning bearing adapts for parallelism of the shaft and carriage travel -- i.e. kinematic: fully constrained but not over constrained. I'm a little busy right now, but could do a maker article for the files. David Clark with too much fun to have and not enough time to have it, in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Home-built 618 Steadyrest [atlas618lathe] Posted by: "Gary Bauer" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:21 pm ((PDT)) Here are a couple pictures of my Atlas 618 lathe home-built steadyrest. It measures 8" by 8" over-all and 4" by 5" for the main center section with a 1.5" bottom flange. The fingers are 1/2-20 unf threaded rod with lug nut knobs. Ford chrome lug nuts would have been easier to use if they were to be had. So I bored-out some 12mm lug nuts and attached them w/ J-B Weld. The tips of those fingers use 1/4" button head brass rivets as bearings (not pictured yet). The fingers are attached to the frame by 1/2-20 unf threaded rod connectors welded to the frame plate. The center hole measures 1.625" diameter. In all I believe that I have about $15.oo invested in hardware. The main angle plate I had laying on the patio for a few years. A chop saw did much of the steel carving and shaping. A small Harbor Freight drill-mill did some carving too. The 1.625" hole was bored on my 12x36" Atlas lathe using a 4-jaw chuck to hold the plate. The gray Rustoleum paint was left-over from painting my 618 Atlas lathe. The reason for scratch-building this steadyrest is the extreme pricing of the OEM ones on E-bay. It took almost half the month of June to make this cat's paw style steadyrest with welding help from my nephew Dan. Thanks Dan. Next to build will be a follower rest for the Atlas 618 lathe and then a special 4-way combo tool block for my 12x36 Atlas. I don't care for the lantern type tool posts. Gary in AZ 2 of 2 Photo(s) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas618lathe/att achments/1871925543 Atlas Steadyrest.jpg 618 Steady Rest A ------- new article: Making an Angled Half Nut [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:46 am ((PDT)) This article was the joint effort of Larry Rudd and myself. Starting with the "Smart Nut" manufactured by Rod Grantham, we modified the idea a bit. It was written for those new to the metal working hobby. The Angled Half Nut slides on a threaded rod yet locks securely when tightened. They are easy to make, just hard to design and analyze. Almost half of the article is analysis if you are a math geek. If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/ahf.pdf Your comments are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. If you wish to receive future article announcements automatically, please send me an email with "Article Alias" in the subject line. Thanks, Rick ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: "Paul DeLisle" ferretpdx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:33 pm ((PDT)) That's a brilliant solution, Rick. Looking at the result, though, I have a question..wouldn't creating a slightly shallower angle (by drilling, say, 5 threads depth down with the larger bit before angling the nut) make the nut a bit more secure? That would create less "wobble" area and more flat surface at the top for the bolt threads to contact on the flat side; making less chance of distortion? Just thinkin' out loud. Paul DeLisle ------- Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: tooldocx~xxcheqnet.net davidhallsten Date: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:58 pm ((PDT)) Great question Paul, why don’t you try a couple and post the results. I for one would certainly be interested in the photos. davidh ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:52 pm ((PDT)) Paul, I do discuss the trade off of that smooth area in the appendix. I've never seen any wobble. Rick ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.net Date: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:13 am ((PDT)) Just in case anyone is curious as to what practical application an "angled half-nut" has, do some poking around on the 'net. Try: SMED and/or Shigeo Shingo. SMED is Single Minute Exchange of Dies [meaning that the lost production time in a die change is under 10 minutes i.e. the elapsed time can be expressed in minutes that never exceed a single digit.] FYI, there are "external activities" and "internal activities." The external activities do not interrupt production nor cause machine "down time." The internal ones do, and machine down time is always expensive. Think pit stops at Indianapolis: lots of external preparation time to minimize the racecar's down time. One of the principles is that the set-up should never require more than a single turn of a bolt or nut. This can be accomplished by: U-shaped washers of the correct thickness that can be slipped under the nut b/4 tightening; cutting the studs/bolt to some specific length, using shims under the die and some other clever stuff. And, of course, Rick's Angled 1/2 nut. [I think there may be another name for these nuts, and I searched last night and could not find them. This is not a new concept.] Also Mr. Shingo is the father of Poke-Yoke [Mistake Proofing]. [BTW, Mr. Shingo gave credit to Henry Ford for first applying this line of thinking to mass production]. All of this stuff is interesting and clever and practical -- and some of it is worth considering in our little shops where no one really cares how much time we spend on a set-up; but it is always nice to know you beat your own best time by being clever. Or, should you suspect your mind is failing, a little bit of mistake proofing is not out of place. And now we know how to make our own quick turn 1/2 nuts. L8r, LH ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: "Yahoo gMail" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:53 am ((PDT)) LH, Good to hear from you again! If you search for speed nut or quick nut, you will find similar designs. It was hard to tell from the pictures if the angled half nut is truly new. At best it is a small evolution. What you will not find is how to make one beyond what Rod Grantham says in his video. One problem Larry Rudd and I ran into was that if you go for full depth on the thread plus threads on opposite faces of the hole, the threaded rod will not engage for the larger thread sizes. Having treads on only one face solves that problem. What really fried my brain was the math. It is all very simple and depends on only similar triangles. But picking the right logical path took me a lot of time to get right. I was also surprised that Angled Half Nut was about half as strong as a tapped hole in the same material. There were 4 half threads in the Angled Half Nut versus 12 full threads in the tapped hole. Clearly a lot goes on as the metal starts to deform. I'll now toss my Angled Half Nut on my pile of solutions looking for a problem ;-)) Peace, Rick KG7MQL p.s. Along those same lines, there is a parallelogram T nut. Like the angled half nut, it is not as strong as a regular T nut yet goes in and comes out very quickly. We don't always need the full strength. ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: "Lance Eggleston" wheezer606x~xxverizon.net crashbone256 Date: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:49 pm ((PDT)) Interesting that with the single sample "fail point" test, the angled nut with 1/4 the thread surface gives 1/2 the strength of the full thread. This would certainly be useful for jigs, esp in wood turning. lance ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: "Yahoo gMail" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:21 pm ((PDT)) Lance, I was surprised that the Angled Half Nut worked so well. Rick ------- Re: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:59 pm ((PDT)) I encourage everyone to find ways to improve the angled half nut. All of us are smarter than any one of us. Rick ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: dreamcraftersx~xxmsn.com petzlglyph Date: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:21 am ((PDT)) Thanks Rick for the article, now I can make them in other thread configurations. Maybe I'm over simplifying here but couldn't you just lay the clearance drill over the tap till they visually "clear" each other, measure the angle and offset and go from there? Maybe it's just my "want it done and working right damn now" attitude or that I just hate extraneous math :^) Ken ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:11 pm ((PDT)) Ken, You might be able to eyeball making these angle nuts. I started out that way but found that some nuts worked and others never locked. A few would not engage. Larry had similar results. The math gets us to repeatable and optimal results. But you are right, there is a bit of calculation needed unless you stick with 1” thick stock. Rick ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: andy.j1sx~xxsbcglobal.net jonesad99 Date: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:42 pm ((PDT)) FYI, JW Winco sells a similar design of quick release knurled nuts and hand-knobs, and they have dimensioned drawings and 3D models of them on their website. This one shows the angle between the threaded and clearance holes as 8 degrees. The diameter of the clearance hole is also larger relative to the threaded hole compared to Rick's. Finally, they are threaded above and below the intersection of the clearance hole. J.W. Winco, Inc. - Inch Size, Stainless Steel Quick Release Nine-Lobe Hand Knobs http://www.jwwinco.com/products/section8/wn5335.5/index.html Andy Jones Arlington TX ------- Re: new article: Making an Angled Half Nut Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:02 pm ((PDT)) Andy, It looks like they went with the double sided threads which I found only worked if they were not full depth. It is interesting that they went with 8° while I went with 10.2°. Rick ------- new article: Making an Adjustable Rod [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:36 am ((PDT)) This article, intended for those new to the hobby of metal working, explains how I made a rod with adjustable length. If you are interested, see http://rick.sparber.org/ext.pdf Your comments are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. If you wish to receive future article announcements automatically, please send me an email with "Article Alias" in the subject line. Thanks, Rick ------- new article: Making a Really Nice Nut Driver [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:40 pm ((PST)) This article, intended for those new to the metal working hobby, explains how to forge a nut driver. You will need a lathe and a few hand tools plus a heat source. If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/FND.pdf Your comments are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. If you wish to receive future article announcements automatically, please send me an email with "Article Alias" in the subject line. Thanks, Rick ------- NOTE TO FILE: I too noticed this next commercial product and dismissed it as being too costly. I also thought it would be overly tedious to turn a number of exact copies. Then Rick came up with a simple solution. Bravo. ------- new article: A Cost Reduced Wall Anchor [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:27 am ((PST)) I recently found out about a wall anchor that sounded like a great idea. Well, that is until I saw the price. This article presents a cost reduced version. If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/CRWA.pdf Your comments are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. If you wish to receive future article announcements automatically, please send me an email with "Article Alias" in the subject line. Thanks, Rick ------- Re: new article: A Cost Reduced Wall Anchor Posted by: "Richard Schaal" rschaal_95135x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:12 am ((PST)) I would be curious about the holding power of the threads in relatively soft material like the stud. The anchor you are approximating likely has four threads per inch? and the 13 tpi of the threaded rod although formidable might pull out first. This is not an issue if you are hanging pictures, but if you are trying to join things, my guess is that the threaded rod would pull out before the anchor. Experimentally, I would put one of each type into a 2x4 which would be long enough to put a hydraulic jack between the anchor and the rod, and then connect the anchor and the to a bar above and just start pumping the jack handle. This resolves the question, but without telling us how much pressure was needed to cause a pull-out. There's got to be some good reason wood screws have coarser threads than machine screws. ;-) Richard ------- Re: new article: A Cost Reduced Wall Anchor Posted by: "Charles" xlch58x~xxswbell.net Date: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:02 am ((PST)) There is a big difference in the threads and for a reason. Same for fine and coarse threads are chosen for cast iron, steel, brass and aluminum The answer in this case is to start with a 1/2 inch lag bolt, rather than machine screw. Charles ------- Re: new article: A Cost Reduced Wall Anchor Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:24 pm ((PST)) Richard, I seem to recall some tests done with wood screws and equivalent bolts that were threaded into wood. The bolts held better. If I was trying to join two pieces of wood, I certainly would not use this anchor. I’d use wood screws and maybe some glue. Rick ------- NOTE TO FILE: The tests Rick mentions were carried out using threaded bolts that were screwed into holes in wood that had been drilled and tapped just like you would do into metal. There was no intent to permanently join wood to wood; the purpose was to install a bolt into a single piece of wood while affixing say a metal hanger or other item to the wood like you would need to hang a picture or hold a heavy object. The threaded bolt can be removed and inserted over and over without damaging the threads in the wood. Comparatively, simple wood screws usually mess up their threads in wood when removed and returned repeatedly, and can be overdriven and strip the threads in the wood. Obviously drilling and tapping wood is not common practice for the simple reason that it requires a tap drill and tap and takes more time and effort; for most single use purposes driving a simple wood screw suffices. ------- new article: An Experimental Theaded Insert [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:33 am ((PST)) This article, intended for those new to the hobby of metalworking, presents the steps needed to make a threaded insert. If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/HMTI.pdf Your comments are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. If you wish to receive future article announcements automatically, please send me an email with "Article Alias" in the subject line. Thanks, Rick ------- Just an update on a few things [atlas618lathe] Posted by: dlduncanx~xxgmail.com teledan73 Date: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:35 pm ((PST)) I just wanted to give an update of what I have been up to lately with my lathe. I bought this lathe a couple years back and didn't do much with it up until a couple months ago. I needed a couple of parts made for my motorcycle I am working on (a 1981 Yamaha XT500) and I decided to try to tackle them myself with my little Craftsman 6". Before I started I decided to gather a few parts so I bought the starter kit from LittleMachineShop.com which came with a QCTP, a drill chuck for the tailstock, and a few cutting tools. I am really glad I purchased this kit! I also bought a dial indicator because I only have a 4 jaw chuck and I needed some way to make sure the work gets centered in the chuck. I would like to get a 3 jaw scroll chuck at some point but for now the 4 jaw is fine. The first part I needed was a bushing to fit inside of the rear caliper hanger. The caliper and hanger are from a Yamaha FZ1 which had a 28mm axle and my XT has a 17mm axle so I made a little bushing out of aluminum with a 28mm OD that fits right into the caliper hanger and has a 17mm ID for the XT axle. The other part I needed was a brake rotor spacer for the front wheel to space out the rotor 12mm from the hub. I was worried about this part since the OD needed to be 104mm and I wasn?t sure the little Craftsman could handle a chunk of round stock this large but it ended up working out beautifully. I still need to drill the bolt holes in it. There are some more pictures of my bike build here: http://s587.photobucket.com/user/teledan/library/My%20XT500 In the midst of all of this I decided I wanted to make a little top. I had a chunk of brass that was chucked up in the lathe when I bought it so I turned out a top from of it. I first just tapered the bottom to a point but then I decided to press a small ceramic ball bearing into the tip and now this thing will spin for over 7-8min! On a different topic, I added my lathe's info into the database posted here and it looks like I have the oldest Craftsman 101.21400 on here! The serial number is 001108 so I am guessing it was made sometime between about 57-60? Does that sound about right? 6 of 6 Photo(s) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas618lathe/attachments/405700220 68D9E58E-9F99-4AB4-951E-D1455AC1288E_zps6ejglq8w.JPG 58D65879-5F94-46A6-B67B-0882DF14186E_zpso8eifaaj.JPG 90F5DB8E-4FD4-4143-82DB-E49C4E746899_zpsh8rjsuf8.JPG 33CDA4A4-7A04-4E3B-A8C4-D3CFD06D995C_zpsf7hflrjw.JPG 945ABF0D-8DC6-46A5-A455-3EB250FEB5AF_zpsjuqoszp4.JPG E967419F-3777-4707-B7F4-64ADD5B7F3EE_zpss6abn5eq.JPG ------- Re: Just an update on a few things Posted by: curtis.normanx~xxcomcast.net crackerfactory03 Date: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:12 pm ((PST)) Nice work! You should have posted a pic of the top too. Putting a ball bearing in the tip was a cool idea. Curtis ------- Re: Just an update on a few things Posted by: dlduncanx~xxgmail.com teledan73 Date: Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:32 am ((PST)) Here is another top that I just finished this morning. It is 1.25" diameter brass. It also has a ceramic ball for the tip. I haven't timed this one yet but it spins pretty well. These tops have been great for a beginner like me to learn some of the basics of turning. All the guys at work want me to make some for them :) 2 of 2 Photo(s) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas618lathe/attachments/149520020 2015-02-12 11.25.35.jpg 2015-02-12 11.25.46.jpg ------- [atlas_craftsman] new article plus video: A Continuous Pin Support Fixture Posted by: "Rick - yahoo" rgsparber.yax~xxgmail.com rgsparber Date: Sun Mar 1, 2015 6:59 pm ((PST)) A friend of mine wanted me to cut up a lot of 3/16" diameter CRS into 1" long pins with a point on each one. This article shows the fixture that made this an easy task. http://rick.sparber.org/CPSF.pdf Rick ------- New guys as well with questions [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: fmhuberx~xxrogers.com fmhuberx~xxrogers.com Date: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:37 am ((PDT)) Good afternoon all. I have been an amateur woodworker, both flat and round for 40+ years. I also have a Craftsman lathe in storage for about 20 years. I recently found jster1963 while exploring you tube. His down to earth style made me want to get mine out and make my own mistakes. Then there is Tubalcain - WOW - I have even quit watching television because Tubalcain is much more interesting That got me to wondering, what would I do with my lathe?. In woodworking, I make things, tables, cases, pens, peppermills etc. as well as items for the shop. When I look at the metal working sites, and please do not take offence to this, I see items for the shop and steam engines. I have looked at a number for sites and everything seems to be about accessories for this metal working machine or that. I know I will need to buy tooling etc. to allow me to build anything, but before I sink a lot of money into this, are there areas where I could get suggestions for what others build, beside shop aides and steam engines. Thanks and I hope I am not offending anyone as I appreciate everything I have read and seen to date. I will post a picture of it if allowed Mike https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas_craftsman/attachments/555472246 DSC_0015.JPG ------- Re: New guys as well with questions Posted by: firegerry648x~xxyahoo.com firegerry648 Date: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:58 am ((PDT)) i'm also new to the group and really to machining on more than a "oh i can make it work" end of things. I have recently finished a gunsmithing course and am starting a master gunsmith course in a few weeks. That will be my primary use for my lathe. until that time...I'm going to use it to make parts for my jeeps..lol..as well as parts for a custom mill i am working on from an older shopsmith mark 5. Good Luck and enjoy it. You could always make some clamps and bench dogs. ------- Re: New guys as well with questions Posted by: naugled.pokx~xxgmail.com naugled2000 Date: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:17 am ((PDT)) You'll find uses for it. I'm a woodworker and homebrewer as well. I wanted a small lathe to make parts for my brewing endeavors and that's what I've used it for mostly. But since I've learned how to use this thing I just keep thinking of more things that I want to make with it. That list includes woodworking items. Things like small brass knobs, thumb screws, parts for vices, parts for hand planes, fixture parts, parts for sharpening jigs, a wheel marking guage, the list keeps growing. I think you'll be glad you broke this toy out and learned to use it. Dave ------- Re: New guys as well with questions Posted by: fmhuberx~xxrogers.com fmhuberx~xxrogers.com Date: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:20 am ((PDT)) Thanks - exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. I had ideas for the wood shop as well but these are excellent suggestions. ------- Re: New guys as well with questions Posted by: stevemetschx~xxyahoo.com stevemetsch Date: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:18 pm ((PDT)) I make cabinet and furniture hardware. I converted an office chair to a 4 foot dia lazy Susan. You can turn wood with great precision. And best of all; you can buy more tools. Steve ------- Re: New guys as well with questions Posted by: fmhuberx~xxrogers.com fmhuberx~xxrogers.com Date: Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:11 pm ((PDT)) Exactly what I am afraid of..I did bite the bullet today and bought the Tubalcain Atlas lathe course. ------- Re: New guys as well with questions Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:12 pm ((PDT)) Mike, It depends upon what other sorts of things you do. We recently had the windows in our house replaced. When I began to install the new blinds, I found that the pan head screws furnished for the brackets didn't fit properly (the blind's header hit the screw head and wouldn't install level). I used the lathe to turn the screws into fillister head type, which cleared the header and fixed the problem. If I could have found fillister head sheet metal screws for sale (I never saw any), it would have taken three days to get them here, and I would have had to buy 100 of them. As it was, I cured the problem in 15 minutes, with nothing left over. I'm currently cosmetically restoring a WW-II vintage radio transmitter to go into someone's Halftrack. One of the tapped holes for mounting the dynamotor had bad threads. The hole is about 9" deep into the radio and up against one corner, so not possible to run a tap into it because none of the typical tap wrenches can work up in a corner. So I modified one so that I could drive the tap from outside the radio cabinet with a 1/4" square drive speed wrench. Most of the modification work was done on the lathe, and a little with a drill press, although at least theoretically that could have been done with the lathe, too. Generally, you aren't going to make knick knacks for the grand kids, furniture for the house, etc. But there are all sorts of things that you can do with a metal lathe that you can't really do with anything else. ------- Re: New guys as well with questions Posted by: wa5cabx~xxcs.com wa5cab Date: Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:19 pm ((PDT)) If you are going to go for it, you should also buy a copy of the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations that most closely matches your lathe model. There is a .DOC in Files with a selection chart. Robert Downs - Houston wa5cab dot com (Web Store) MVPA 9480 ------- Re: New guys as well with questions Posted by: "Gregg Eshelman" g_alan_ex~xxYAHOO.COM Date: Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:17 am ((PDT)) You can make the metal parts for pens, peppermills, put some metal bands around turned wooden boxes and table legs. Make a chess set combining wood and metal in the pieces. Same for salt and pepper shakers. Look at all the round things and think about how you can make them. ------- Re: New guys as well with questions Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com jmelson2 Date: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:10 pm ((PDT)) Once you have a lathe, all sorts of "to a guy with a hammer, everything looks like a nail" situations come up. Although I bought my lathe for making engineering projects, all sorts of home repair sorts of things also come up. Repairing door locks, fixing vacuum cleaners, kids' toys, maintaining and making accessories for OTHER tools in the shop, and the list goes on. I do use my mill more than the lathe, but I wouldn't want to be without the lathe, either. Jon ------- Advice Needed On Desoto Wing Nut [atlas_craftsman] Posted by: n5kzwx~xxarrl.net n5kzw Date: Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:29 pm ((PDT)) A friend has asked me to make a copy of the spare tire wing nut on his 1930's vintage Desoto. I have put a photo in the group photos area in an album called Desoto Wing Nut. This may or may not be a link to the photo. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas_craftsman/photos/photo stream/lightbox/171858398?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFil ter=ALL#zax/171858398 The nut has an overall length of just under 3.25" and a nominal diameter of 0.88" that flairs out to a skirt of 1.1". The turned area beyond the skirt is 1.3" x 0.653D, and the whole thing is threaded 7/16-14 to a depth of 3". The "moose antlers" 3.82" wide and 0.28" thick. My raw material is a 1.125" rod, and a 5/16 x 1.5". Several questions, in reverse order of importance. 1. The original part looks to be nickel plated. If I braze the wings to the nut body, will the brazing plate, or will it show through? 2. How do I handle the fillets and the flaring between the wings and the body? Do I braze on small pieces and shape them with a die grinder? 3. How do I make this thing? I was thinking: a. Cut to length. b. Turn the main body a wee bit larger than it's finished diameter and stopping where the skirt starts to flare. c. Turn a cylinder the diameter of the skirt and the length of the flare for the skirt. d. Carefully turn the skirt flare freehand using woodworking tools with the tool rest VERY close to the part. e. Flip the part and deal with the turned area and the threaded hole. f. At the mill, cut a slot across the solid end of the part the width of the bar stock. g. Bandsaw the "moose antlers" to rough shape and mill most of the wings to thickness, leaving material to form part of the fillet to the main body. h. Braze the wing to the nut, and braze on additional bits & pieces to form the flare and the fillets. i. Grind to shape. Is there a better way? ------- Re: Advice Needed On Desoto Wing Nut Posted by: "Bruce ." freemab222x~xxgmail.com bakmthiscl Date: Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:41 pm ((PDT)) Cast the thing in brass, using the original as a pattern. Have it nickel plated. Cut the threads. Bruce NJ ------- Re: Advice Needed On Desoto Wing Nut Posted by: "Kbeckmanx~xxwi.rr.com" kbeckmanx~xxwi.rr.com kbeckman Date: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:14 pm ((PDT)) You have it. Turn the center part first, and make it a little longer than needed, so you can hold it in the lathe. Slot it, and insert the moose ear part. Braze it together, and die grind to a good finish. Braze will plate just like the brass. You can braze in the fillet as well, and use a die grinder and Dremel too get the shape right. Brazing is a lot like soldering, and you can fill in small areas. Here is an easy way to nickel plate it. I have done Nickel, Brass, and Copper plating with an inexpensive and easy method from Texas Platers Supply 214-330-7168. They do not have a website, you must call them to order. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9N0UUaX-IE They sell these small containers (they only sell 1 size) of a gel like substance that when used with their special brush allows you to electroplate anything metal. I have used the brass extensively as well as the copper and nickel. The nickel plating can be polished to a very nice shine. All you need is a battery, a brush and the gel and you can plate almost anything. The trick is everything needs to be polished very well before you plate it. The brush is $11, gels are: Brass $11 Copper $11 Nickel $19 https://www.tubesandmore.com/search/node/Electroplating%20Compound Keith K9GL ------- Making a custom watch crown [sherline] Posted by: utzelux~xxgmail.com utzelu Date: Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:42 am ((PST)) Hi everybody, I am planning to make a custom crown for a wrist watch and have few questions about how to machine it. All I have is a manual lathe and mill (Sherline of course). First of all, is it OK to machine it from 316L stainless steel? Since it is for a diver watch I would like to make it rust proof, so 316L is a good material for this purpose. Second, because the crown needs to be waterproof, it is usually hollow inside, so the stem tube on the watch case goes inside the crown. How can I machine the crown inside, taking into account the tiny dimension? BTW, the crown will be around 7 to 9 mm in diameter. Thanks in advance, DanP ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:59 am ((PST)) Dan: First, there is no advantage over having anything other than manual machines when machining a one off watch crown. Personally, when machining parts, I like to place myself at the greatest advantage. Unfortunately, some grades of stainless can be tough to machine especially small parts like crowns where micro tooling may be required. For Crowns that require Micro tooling, I generally use 416 stainless that is free machining but has slightly less corrosive protection than 300 series stainless. However, for crowns this has not been an issue. When machining a crown, I machine the outside on the end of a work piece, then the inside with the last cut parting off the machined crown from the work piece. The grooves on the outside of the crown can be knurled or machined depending on desired size and shape. I generally bore the inside with micro boring bars as well as single point cut threads if required. However, for exact details, I would need to see a drawing of what you are attempting to do. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: utzelux~xxgmail.com utzelu Date: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:27 am ((PST)) Hi Jerry and thanks for the advice. Indeed for making the crown there is no advantage in having CNC. Though the crown is just a part from the watch I am designing currently and the case would surely benefit from a CNC mill. But that's another story and another topic here on the forum. I am attaching below two photos of the crown design. The inner hollow recess (where the case stem tube will go in) is currently 3 mm in diameter but I can increase it if needed. The crown itself is big, with 8 mm on one side an 9 mm on the other. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/utzelu/Moby%20Dick/Crown%20Con ic.png http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/utzelu/Moby%20Dick/Crown%20Con ic%20Profile.png I was thinking if I can make it from two separate parts, with a press fit. One part would be for the crown itself, with the 3 mm straight hole in it (done with a milling drill bit) and the other part would be like a piston with one side having a threaded hole for the stem to go in and the other side having a tight fit to the 3 mm hole in the crown. What do you think? Regards, DanP ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:45 pm ((PST)) Dan: Personally, I would machine the crown from one piece for strength and integrity. What is the diameter and length of the crowns post or stem? Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: utzelux~xxgmail.com utzelu Date: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:35 pm ((PST)) The watch movement I want to use is a quartz ETA 955.112 with the stem size 0.9 mm, Tap 10. I didn't calculate yet the crown post length. I estimate the recess i need to bore inside the crown is around 2-3 mm wide. Another issue is how to make the thread in the crown post? ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:52 pm ((PST)) Dan: I am somewhat confused by the dimensions given. If I were machining this crown, I would machine it in one piece by boring the recess around the the post/stem. Unfortunately, I am not aware of a commercial boring bar with the strength required to do this job. Fortunately, it is quite simple to make one from a USA HSS drill shank per the two photo`s under my name in the photo section. First I would drill a hole the size of the crown post down the center of a drill shank with an OD the same as the ID of the crown. Even though I do not recommend carbide circuit board drills for metal work, this job can be done with them. Since they are cheap, drill about .030"- .050" deep and then throw the drill in the trash and do the same with the next and next until the job is done. From this point grind the the shank half round as shown in the photo`s. Complete the grinding per the photo`s. This boring bar can be sharpened as many times as required and is mounted in a properly aligned tailstock chuck for the boring operation. It is also strong enough to do the job with plenty of cutting fluid and moderate speed. If you are going to do watch work, you will have a need for a set of crown drills and taps per the photo under my name. They are generally available from Horological tool dealers. Again, unfortunately, they are generally not of the quality suitable for stainless but stems are typically standard metric thread pitches. You will probably have to measure your thread pitch and order a standard individual tap of the quality required. Good Luck Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: "Ian Newman" ian_newx~xxyahoo.com ian_new Date: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:36 am ((PST)) If I were machining this crown, I would machine it in one piece by boring the recess around the the post/stem. Unfortunately, I am not aware of a commercial boring bar with the strength required to do this job. Hi, The usual method used in this horological process is to use a sort of core drill -- think of a tube with the end cut/filed to form teeth, then hardened (or sometimes coated with a diamond grit) Alternatively, use a graver by hand (a round edge if you can get a suitable size, or an onglette if you can't) All the best, Ian ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: utzelux~xxgmail.com utzelu Date: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:04 am ((PST)) I am still trying to sort out the dimensions. Fortunately, since this is a bespoke design, I have the freedom to adapt to my available tools and skills. Making a micro boring tool bit from a used HSS drill sounds like a good idea. Of course I will still assess my other option of making it from two parts. It won't be noticed once they are pressed together and it shouldn't compromise the waterproofing. The advantage is that it is much easier to machine with my current tools. Keep ideas coming anyway :) Thanks, DanP ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:09 am ((PST)) Ian: You are correct in that crowns are manufactured by typically machining in a screw machine using core drills. Unfortunately, the core drill sizes required for this type work are again typically not available unless made to order at a cost that is normally prohibitive for one off. I take it that you have actually performed this task with a Graver ??? Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: utzelux~xxgmail.com utzelu Date: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:32 am ((PST)) Somewhat related to the topic, but how can I attach the stem tube to the case? Again, I am thinking about press fitting the tube in the case, but would it be waterproof? Can it be welded taking into account that it is from stainless steel? Thanks, DanP ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:18 pm ((PST)) Dan: Case tubes are generally threaded or press fit. Either can be water resistant depending on fit. While in some cases, it is claimed that you can supposedly weld stainless, it would not be practical in this case. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: utzelux~xxgmail.com utzelu Date: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:08 am ((PST)) Thank you Jerry for your invaluable advise. I will come back later with more questions as watchmaking is very new to me but very interesting. Regards, DanP ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: "Ian Newman" ian_newx~xxyahoo.com ian_new Date: Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:37 pm ((PST)) Hi Jerry, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - I only check the internet a couple of times a week. Your question gets a couple of answers: I take it that you have actually performed this task with a Graver ??? Yes - I have made sub-millimetre annular grooves in round stock with a graver. No - I have never made a waterproof crown for a diver's watch. As you indicated in one or your previous posts, Dan has left out a lot of key data. To state the obvious, before undertaking the task, Dan would have researched the methods for ensuring watertightness. Most watertight crowns use two or three O-rings - most of these rings are not circular in cross-section and the profile of the seat that the O-ring sits in will be defined by its section. Finally, it is reasonable to assume Dan will make his crown design to fit the available O-rings, rather than making a custom O-ring to fit the crown design. Of interest. in what way does your suggested tool, which you describe as a "micro-boring tool", differ from a core drill? If I have confused things by introducing alternative terminology, please forgive me. All the best, Ian ------- Re: Making a custom watch crown Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:16 pm ((PST)) Ian: Based on the Info I have, If the Crown would be machined in one piece, there would be roughly .025"- .030" between the crown post and the crown ID. In order to bore this with a standard boring bar or a Graver, you would need a half round point about .025" wide and about .050"-.075" long for clearance. When I have tried this with a Graver and/or boring bar in stainless, the tip has disappeared almost immediately. The boring tool I suggested and a core drill would be held and utilized in the same manner in a Lathe. However the boring tool pictured is much faster to make, easy and quick to resharpen, allows for chip removal and machining observation. Jerry Kieffer ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------