Here find lots of tips on using rotary tables and indexing devices. Rotary tables and indexing devices fall into the category of machine tool accessories that, once acquired, you do not know how you got along without them before. Well you did, but it sure was hard and/or tedious. NOTE TO FILE: There is extensive discussion on how some users fasten the work to a rotary table in the text file "Workholding". If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2011 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. =========================================================================== From: Jeff McPhate Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:22am Subject: Sherline indexer Can anyone share their uses for the indexer, other than the obvious gear cutting? I am also interested in their view of the pluses and minuses of the indexer vs. alternatives (e.g., rotary table with tailstock) thanks, Jeff ------- From: R. Dean Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:50am Subject: Re: Sherline indexer Jeff, I do indexing often, but I seldom make gears. Drilling bolting hole circles, milling hex and octal flats are the basic uses. As far as the rotary table goes, it seldom gets used. Any regular (evenly) spaced pattern is best to be done on an indexer. The shape of the part and where the indexed area is determines what type or method I use to index and machine or mark off for machining elsewhere. Given a choice, I would buy an indexer first, but that depends on what projects I have in mind. Rich D. ------- From: Paul Devey Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 11:06am Subject: Re: Sherline indexer I agree with Jeff with the exception that the rotary table may be more versatile than the indexer. The indexer is certainly more precise because of our hand-eye co-ordination. Jeff is right in saying you should know what you want to do, the capabilities of each. This will assist you in deciding which to buy first. Paul ------- From: Pavel Korensky Date: Wed May 17, 2000 11:59pm Subject: Re: Indexing attachment or rotary table? what does everyone use? >thanks, just wondering if the rotary table would be worth the money, >I'm sure it is, and would like to know what other things people could >use it for as well, I am not sure if I fully understood your question about gears (my knowledge of english is a bit limited). I have the normal Sherline rotary table (not the CNC one) and I am really happy with it. I am using it for cutting gears (for gearboxes etc. -- I am not a clockmaker), for drilling patterns of holes, for milling of circular pockets etc. etc. etc. I can say that the rotary table is the most useful option for the Sherline mill (and most expensive too) Best regards PavelK ------- From: w.j. ward Date: Mon Oct 30, 2000 1:02pm Subject: Through hole in Rotary Table I ran into a problem with my Sherline rotary table. Swarf gets into the central hole. I was thinking that there should be a hole all the way through, like on the 8" table I have for my beastly HF mill/drill. I figure that chips would fall to the bottom of the hole should they get knocked in there, but that I wouldn't have to clean them out to screw something in until I was finished with the job. Anyone do this to your rotary table? ------- From: Date: Mon Oct 30, 2000 9:09am Subject: Re: Through hole in Rotary Table 10/30/00, wjw2000... writes: << Swarf gets into the central hole. >> Make a screw in plug, or just a piece of foam rubber and plug the hole when you are not using it. bill ------- From: Date: Mon Oct 30, 2000 11:23am Subject: Re: Through hole in Rotary Table Why not use shop vac. I have one under my bench and it will suck those chips right out of all those holes. For stubborn one's, I just use a dentist pick while holding the vac hose near by. You just have to be careful you don't suck up any important things. Tim Christoff Basehor KS. ---------------------- From: Date: Mon Oct 30, 2000 4:50pm Subject: RE: Through hole in Rotary Table Just a thought But I use disposable ear plugs the type you squash up and they expand out in a few seconds. You can cut these to length and they can fill a 3/8"( 10mm) hole. I use these in the headstock spindle and the tailstock when the centre or drill chuck is removed. Oh yeah if the job gets noisy you cans tick them in your ears for noise attenuation ha ha. P.S. Don't through out the old used ones after they have been in your ears ------- FRoM Alan Marconett KM6VV Date: Mon Oct 30, 2000 5:57pm Subject: Re: Through hole in Rotary Table Try putting scotch tape over unused holes. I have a pan under my mill's base, and it had holes in all four corners that I hadn't noticed. I kept getting swarf all over my nice credenza. Tape fixed that! I also keep tape over my rotary table's "chuck mount hole". Alan "May the Swarf be with you" ------- Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 16:13:52 -0000 From: steambikex~xxhotmail.com Subject: Manual rotary table I made a small manual rotary table for the mill over the holidays. I didn't need super precision and saw this one in the plans of the steam engine that I was building. I just needed to cut the inside curves out of the web of the flywheel. The table is made up of a flat plate mounted to the mill table with a 6" Dia. x 5/8" round disk on top with threaded holes for the hold downs. It has a shaft between the two to pivot on. Shaft is ½" dia. into bottom plate and 5/8" though the top disk. Shaft is flush with top and bottom. When I turned it I also bored a 3/8" hole though the center. I cut a piece of 3/8" drill rod that would extend up to put different size of bushings on. The main bottom plate also has threaded holes to lock the disk in place. I placed the flywheel on to the bushing in the center hole disk and was able to make all 6 cuts without any resetting up. OH I also drilled and tape the side of the disk for a 8" handle to pivot the disk with. I had pre drilled holes to start and stop in and took light passes and it worked perfect. Can't do any hogging, but only took a couple of hours to make. A person could add the degrees to the sides of the disk to give more versatility. Paul B. ------- Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:11:34 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: bronze headstock bearings [HERE: BIGGER DIAL MARKINGS] In a message dated 1/16/01, dswrx~xxwebtv.net writes: > it would be nice to have larger [DIAL MARKINGS] I made my own, made an extended bearing for the cross slide and turned up larger dials. Used yellow PVC pipe for the dials with paper divisions held on with varnish which protected the paper too. The inner part was aluminum a tight slide fit for the ID of the plastic pipe. I made the divisions with a cad program and could adjust the print out scale to get exactly 100 divisions on the circumference of the collar. Worked good till I sold the 6 inch to buy a Smithy. (What a fool!!!!!) John Meacham High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock. ------- Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:33:23 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: bronze headstock bearings [HERE: BIGGER DIAL MARKINGS] > This is a classic division task. Two ways of making divisions, If the divisions are on a thimble, (like a dial on a lathe) what I did was to print out a scale using a cad program. Had the thimble already done. Then print out the scale, Too short? too long? print it at a different scale till the cut out band just fits. Protect it with several coats of varnish. Second method add a large wheel (even wood will do) to the rear of the head stock using an expandable arbor (easy to make). Get a disposable tape measure and wrap around the wheel; keep trimming the wheel till the divisions you need just fit. I have used plumbers tape (that perforated galvanized stuff for hanging pipe) and even used the rip off edges of computer paper, anything with known even spaces. Sounds in-accurate, but if the wheel is large compared to what you want to divide, the errors are reduced accordingly. This is the method used by clock makers to make division plates. John Meacham High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock. ------- Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 19:08:08 +1000 (EST) From: "Alexander Newman" Subject: Footnote re gear cutting I have been scratching my head over making an *accurately* spaced 127-toothed gear (a rather inconvenient prime no.) as simply as possible. Having pondered how to best produce the 2.8346 degree angle, I suddenly realised that the answer had been staring me in the face for months - use a CAD program. I now have a nice template using the copying functions, which is far more exact than a hand drawing! All I have to do is stick the template onto a dividing plate blank, carefully spot through on a set diameter, and drill away. The production of the wheel should then (theoretically) be a snap. And I can print a new template at any scale whenever I need a new one. Alex ------- NOTE TO FILE: This paper template idea has merit and should suffice for all but the fussiest of applications with the following precautions. There is some history of objection as to the accuracy of a computer- printed paper template. In fact I have experienced some significant distortion on lesser quality printers in the past when doing graphics. The level of distortion introduced by the actual physical printing process should be checked by making a true circle graphic in the CAD program (with a centre point) and printing it out as large as practicable on your printer's paper. Compare that circumference with one scribed physically with a compass. If they match closely, there is no significant error. But if the printed "circle" turns out to be an ellipse, the computer file's "circle" should be distorted into a counter-ellipse by a percentage that you determine by experimentation until the printed object matches the compass's true circle. The correction percentage will then be a known factor that you can use in future printouts, be they circles or other shapes. Once the paper template is proven accurate, you could simply spot through as you describe. Accuracy may be further improved by making the template bigger than the final gear, and indexing using division points on this larger circumference. ------- Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 02:06:44 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Re: Footnote re gear cutting You can always generate a 127 hole plate by dividing a circle. Old fashioned, but it works. The bigger the disk you use (a bit over 40 inches for one inch divisions) the better the accuracy as angular error is reduced as the plate being generated will be smaller than the master disk. If you really want to go nuts, you can make 127 half inch pieces of drill rod, turn an inner and outer disk, face and drill each of the 127 pieces, drill and tap 127 holes in the outer plate, and generate the 127 hole plate from first principles. Books on toolmaking explain this method, several of the Lindsay reprints cover it well, as does Lautard in one of the bedside readers. Personally, I'd just get my hands on a commercial 127 tooth gear and use that as an index plate. Darn sight easier and the gear manufacturers do all the work. Someone near you probably has one. The gear just has to have 127 teeth, it doesn't have to be the one that fits your lathe. Stan ------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:19:31 -0000 From: J.C.Beechx~xxshu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Footnote re gear cutting At least the bigger the disk, the smaller the error (try 6ft disk hanging off end of table 8-)). But the way to go is get a ready made 127 tooth gear and use that to make your dividing wheel, as already mentioned. Joules ------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:33:44 -0000 From: J.C.Beechx~xxshu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Footnote re gear cutting OH....that should have been 40.45" disk..... But seriously, I have a wire DRO...So what you may say....Well the point is I made 6" disk with a single locating hole. The wire from my DRO wraps around this disk and I can very accuratly measure its circumference. Once done I tell the DRO to alter its dimensions so I can divide the disk into any number of parts....Not indefinitly...This has turned out to be a God send. The unit isn't cheap, but it is portable to all my machines and gives me 0.001" accuracy...better than I can work most of the time. Anyway check this page out, I am just a satisfied customer. http://www.bwelectronics.co.uk/ Joules ------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:02:08 -0800 From: James Eckman Subject: Re: Re: Re: Footnote re gear cutting >> Wrap a 127 cm (50") piece of metric tape measure (for convenience only) around a disk machined to the proper diameter (about 16"). Attach a pointer at some convenient location, and start indexing. << > This is good but I still have reservations about precision picking out the locations from the tape ... in essence, it is exactly the same problem as picking them out from a template. < There are several forms of averaging that can be used if you have 2 less than perfect gears. They are similar to some of the much older methods used to generate precision lead screws. However, for a change gear for our type of stuff, this level of precision is not required. Especially since I suspect any threading on Taig's is done via a handcrank usually! After all, how perfect is perfect? In my book, it's get the job done to the required specification. If you can tolerate a bit of error in your threads, then the less than perfect methods presented will work. Lets say that you miscounted and created a 126 tooth wheel and the teeth are way out of line, let's say 1.27 teeth out ;) (lazy!) This is a 1% error, which is not great, but will work for very short threads, fine threads. I suspect anyone who's reasonably careful can cut it down to 0.1%. Some threading guides show compromises of this kind. After all some lathes use a 63 tooth gear in lieu of the 127 version. Determine how accurate you need to be, and then pick your best shot! Jim Eckman ------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:40:11 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re: Footnote re gear cutting One method that no one has mentioned yet is calculating the X,Y coordinates of all of the holes you want for an index plate, and manually move to each of those positions using a manual mill. This is a little slower than a CNC mill, but providing you're careful about backlash, it's plenty accurate for most applications. I've used this one in the past, and it works pretty well. (And when it's the difference between setting up a big honkin' rotary table vs. a quick six-hole hexagon, I'll do the MNC every time. ;) ) Tom P.S. My rotary table isn't so big an honkin' any more... ------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:13:30 -0600 From: "Paul Currie" Subject: Re: Re: Footnote re gear cutting If you ever have a need to print a degree circle or a sheet of lined drafting paper in some odd perspective check this out: http://www.marquis-soft.com/graphpapeng.htm It is a shareware program that does a lot of neat stuff, such as Miscellaneous>Dial Indicator and Perspective Isometric 30 degree. Lots of feature and priced attractively :) Paul ------- Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:07:43 -0000 From: ballendox~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Footnote re gear cutting James, thank you for your post! It is often forgotten in our high tech world just how capable the human senses can be... I have made change gears by wrapping a PAPER STRIP around the chuck (having been divided by the draftsmans trick). Used the carriage as a shaper to cut the teeth. Form tool. Works!! I don't buy these comments, "the eyes and hands can't be accurate enough". They CAN, and ARE, and clocks made YEARS ago (hand filing) prove it... Skill is developed by doing... Ballendo ------- Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:24:39 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re: Footnote re gear cutting On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 batwingsx~xxi-plus.net wrote: > But in pricking out a punch mark for a drill hole, right or > wrong, you get just one chance. You can re-center a punch mark if you're careful. I remember one of the books I've got had a section on how to re-center a punched mark if it was off of the scribe lines. It was new to me at the time. I've used this on occasion since then, and it works really well. The upshot is that you make your punch marks using a center punch (90 deg. tip.) If one is off, use a prick punch (60 deg. tip.) to lightly punch into the wall of the hole you made with your center punch. You make indentations in the direction you want the punch mark to move. Re-punch with the center punch, and the punch mark shifts. It takes practice to be able to gauge how far you're going to move it, but it does work. Start with a light touch. > Anyone think he can be good enough 127 times in a row? And the fact > that old school machinists felt it necessary to use work-arounds like > tooling buttons should say something about how handwork really is. I > have to stand by what I said: .005" or two human hairs-width is good > work in this sort of task. I do have to say, the trick of shifting a punch mark works, but it's still only as good as your eye (plus magnifier), and it's massively massively tedious. Given the choice, I would NOT opt to do this on a 127 hole dividing plate. I don't know if I'd sort through machining techniques by asking the question, "Does it work or doesn't it." A better question would be, "Is this the most appropriate technique for what I'm trying to do." This dividing plate is a good example. If I was making a six hole bolt hole circle, I'd probably opt for manually dialing the holes in with the mill rather than go through the whole process of taking down my vise, mounting the rotary table, indicating the center, etc. etc. etc., taking down the rotary table, mounting my vise, indicating it true, etc. etc. etc. But on a 127 hole circle, you betcha I'd be grabbing for the rotary table! Same thing with relocating a punched hole. It works, I've used it, and it was handy for what I was doing (which involved maybe eight holes.) But this would not be my technique of choice for something involving a hundred holes or more, even if I could get sub-thousandth accuracy with it. When I was a kid, we'd ask ourselves questions like, "If you were stuck on a deserted island, how would you..." I wouldn't exactly call my shop a deserted island, but neither is it a showcase for stuff out of the MSC catalog. There are tools I don't have, so I come up with work-arounds. If I was DESPERATE for a 127 hole dividing plate, but didn't have a rotary table, yeah, I'd go through and manually indicate them in on the mill. If my mill didn't have the work envelope to handle the project, I'd try to find a work-around for that. If I couldn't do it with the mill, no matter how hard I tried, I might be tempted to do the punch thing (though I'd probably be more inclined to scrap the project at that point.) Tom ------- From: Ronald Thibault Date: Sun Jul 8, 2001 6:57 am Subject: Another Use For Indexing Holes In Bull Gear (was: ***JON***) 7/5/01, you wrote: >> Button? On which case? There is a button-like handle on the gear cover that is supposed to catch on a little bracket attached to the headstock. Is that what you are talking about? << >The button I'm talking about is mounted right side of the case and has a "nub" that, if my bull gear wasn't broken, would fit into small holes in the side of the "bull" gear. Leo suggested that it may be an index pin (I think). I don't understand. Is this used to locate degrees around the perimeter of the work? As if you wanted to divide the circumference of your work into some equidistant divisions. I can't believe I just said that. Hank < Hank; In addition to those already mentioned, the bull gear indexing is also useful to layout bolt circles (say like the mounting holes for a chuck to a backplate. Using a threading bit, scribe the circumference of the bolt circle. Then insert the pin in one of the bull gear holes. With the crossfeed scribe across the circle for the center of the first hole. Back off the tool and rotate to the next hole position. insert pin, scribe, etc. I generally count and mark the gear holes to be used for the indexing before I start with permanent marker, to reduce the chance of mistakes, while working on the piece. Afterwards I remove the marker with acetone on a rag. Ron Thibault North Augusta, SC USA Builder Miinie #2 Captain R/C Combat Ship USS Arizona http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/ ------- From: ikimjing... Date: Sun Jul 8, 2001 3:45 pm Subject: Index holes. I made a drill jig that sits on tool post. Just a piece of angle iron with a few holes. Then I drilled a 1/2" thick plate the size I needed on the part, then bolted it with 2-1/4 " bolts. Marked the bull gear for the divisions then move cross slide as close to part as possible. Then I put a bit in a hand drill and stick it thru jig. Line up to scribed dia. and drill in till I get a spot. Rotate chuck, repeat. Then put part on drill press and drill thru. Worked great and wasn't a big deal to make. Hope this might help someone. ------- From: HUNLEY31... Date: Thu Jul 12, 2001 3:28 pm Subject: Clausing Cheap Trick I just received my new 'bull' gear from Clausing today all bright and shiny. Now the bad news, NO INDEXING HOLES. I'm pissed. I called the company and was advised that they no longer drill them, this is what you get. At the cost of the gear I would think that it would be complete. Anyway, take care of your machines or lose an important feature. Damn, I really wanted to use this feature. Just how much could it have cost to do this in production? I'll check around, but I think having it drilled will be 'cost prohibitive.' Anybody out there capable and willing to help someone just getting started at a reasonable price? I just hate what's happening to values in our country. Sorry about the 'soapbox' but I'm pissed. Hank ------- From: "Reames" Date: Thu Jul 12, 2001 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Clausing Cheap Trick As I do not have the problem you have, this may not be a good idea. If it were mine, and I wanted the indexing holes, I'd lay it out and drill it myself. Layout properly, and use a punch for each hole. If I mess it up, I mess it up, it still would work as a gear and if I do it right, Great! and I've learned something. Just MO, good luck with whatever you do... Mike ------- From: Date: Tue Jul 10, 2001 9:56 am Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Clausing Cheap Trick Hank, do not despair. Is there enough flesh to drill holes on its side to meet the diameter needed by the indexing pin? If yes, do not do it the way Mike has told you. I think it is worth it to find a rotary table which somebody could lend you or have the holes drilled in a workshop which has a lathe or rotary table with a divider so that you can rely on a precise dividing. It is approximately an hour of work. Good luck Jean-Claude, Switzerland www.homestead.com/turnandmill ------- From: HUNLEY31... Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 12:30 pm Subject: Re:Indexing bull gear, Bubba, Mike, Art, Leo, Others Many thanks to all that offered to help. Guess I was temporally blinded with disappointment. As Mike suggested, I laid it out on a piece of paper and transferred the 'punches' to the gear, not perfect, but I think it will work, I'll drill it tonight. I'll say no more on the manner, I think you know how I feel. Can't wait to get started. Has anyone bought one of the steam engine casting kits? Do you think this will be a good first time project, or too ambitious? One more question if I may. The threading/feed gears. The ones that are compounded together with a sleeve that has 'lugs' 180 deg. apart. Are the sleeves pressed into one of the two gears? In order to separate mine I'll have to press them out or drive them out with a 3/8 drive socket. Is this normal? I've made too many mistakes so far not to ask. FYI, My profile; male, age 51, Street, MD, build model wood ships, starting RC, want to try steam engines. Ready to retire. Work at: http://www.angelfire.com/md/Fireboat Baltimore City Fire Department Thanks, Hank ------- From: joel_mowers... Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 7:04 pm Subject: Interesting rotary table Here's a link to a British site that offers a nice looking rotary table: http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos_Cat alogue_Rotary_Tables_45.html Seems similar in size to the Sherline, but at a nicer price. Might be worth looking at. Joel ------- From: tony... Date: Sat Aug 11, 2001 6:31 am Subject: Indexer Talking of PIC-based projects, I now have a working prototype of a small stand-alone indexer, based on a PIC microcontroller and a bipolar chopper drive (L297/298), intended to drive a rotary table or dividing head fitted with a 400 half-steps per rev stepper motor. I "dropped in" on Nick Carter while I was in Portland in July & gave him a demo. Brief features list (at present): - 2-line by 16-character LCD display and 16-key membrane keypad; - Setup parameters stored in Non Volatile RAM - remembers the settings from last time it was powered on; - Will cater for any worm/drive ratio between 1:1 and 99:1; - Adjustable initial/max feedrates and jog rates, from dead slow to around 60 degrees/s with a 72:1 worm drive (e.g., the Sherline rotary table); - Adjustable ramp rate; - Software-based backlash compensation; - Bipolar chopper drive - usual L298 spec (2 amps/phase), with chopping current settable via software; - "Jog Mode" gives CW/CCW jog in increments of 1/100th, 1/10th, 1 and 10 degrees, with display of desired and actual angular position to 3 decimal places (where the desired position cannot be achieved, actual position is within 1/2 step of the desired position); - "Division Mode" allows operator to set the number of divisions between 1 and 999. Table can be driven CW and CCW one division at a time - display shows current division number, plus actual angular position in range 0 - 359.999 degrees; - "E-Stop" key halts any move immediately, but the current/desired angular position is remembered - hence, position is not lost on E Stop. - "Degrees Mode" - similar to Division Mode, but the move is specified in degrees to 3 DP; - Motor connector is plug-compatible with Taig's CNC equipment (6-pin DIN plug); - Breakout connector provides for external control of CW/CCW moves and E-Stop, and also provides step/direction outputs if needed to control a higher power driver stage. I'm currently working on getting the board into production along with the RPM meter. More details as they emerge... Regards, Tony ------- From: "David Robertson" Date: Sun Aug 12, 2001 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] Indexer I am not a CNC guy so this may be an obviously stupid question... but how will this device Tony is developing compare to the rotary table controller developed and sold by Bryan Mumford... see it at http://www.bmumford.com/rotary/index.html Dave ------- From: Tony Jeffree Date: Sun Aug 12, 2001 5:10 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] Indexer Mine differs from Brian's (marketed by Sherline) in a few ways: - Mine will handle any drive ratio from 1:1 to 99:1 and can therefore be used with a wide variety of rotary tables/dividing heads; Brian's handles a 72:1 ratio only, as far as I know. - Mine can be set to any motor current up to 2 amps/phase and used with a supply voltage of 10 to 40V, and can therefore be set up to drive a wide variety of motors; Brian's is designed to drive one motor only, as far as I know. - Mine doesn't yet have a "master/slave" mode yet (where one controller interacts with another). - Mine doesn't yet have a "program mode" yet (where you program the device to do a sequence of moves). Regards, Tony ------- From: James Eckman Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 8:30 am Subject: Re: Re: Indexer In principle, it's probably the same thing, but execution is a different matter. This includes packaging, user interface and the like. And of course price. > Mine differs from Brian's (marketed by Sherline) in a few ways: > - Mine doesn't yet have a "master/slave" mode yet (where one controller > interacts with another). Coordinating moves can be a nightmare between two different controllers! > - Mine doesn't yet have a "program mode" yet (where you program the > device to do a sequence of moves). Do you have leftover RAM? Is this feature useful for the most part, as opposed to having a serial port that accepts commands from another device? Jim Eckman ------- From: Tony Jeffree Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:00 am Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Re: Indexer >Coordinating moves can be a nightmare between two different controllers! True, but not an insoluble problem. Will start looking at that once I have the first version sorted - and when I've built a version that will control a linear slide too. There are probably more reasons to connect a rotary & a linear controller together (or even two linear ones) than there are to connect two rotary ones. > > - Mine doesn't yet have a "program mode" yet (where you program > > the device to do a sequence of moves). >Do you have leftover RAM? Is this feature useful for the most part, as >opposed to having a serial port that accepts commands from another >device? I have some left over RAM and also some left over program memory; my problem is working out how best to offer a program mode facility, and whether it will be truly useful. As you point out, it might be more useful to offer a facility to send commands to the box via a serial port, and if the latter, the next question is what form the commands would take. I'm VERY reluctant to start converting the box into a mini G-code interpreter, for example! Regards, Tony ------- From: jguenther... Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 11:28 am Subject: RE: [taigtools] Re: Re: Indexer Tony: You might want to look at the stuff from Simple Step, www.simplestep.com -- they have their own command language that consists of simple commands like m0.010 would move an axis .010 in the positive direction. In fact, their boards only under stand a very rudimentary command language for movement which is basically direction and speed. If you are going to implement control from a serial port, I would suggest keeping it simple and only recognize a limited set of commands for movement such as direction, speed, distance and maybe an enable / disable command. John Guenther ------- From: Tom Benedict Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 3:06 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Re: Indexer There's some appeal to having these things talk to a serial port. I've played with 68HC11 controllers, but never PICs. (Everyone I've talked to who's heard that has told me I'm nuts, so I think I need to play with some PICs.) I've got one of the older Palm Pilots. The docking port for those is basically a serial port. You can even get terminal emulator software for them. (I've used my Palm Pilot to get a console on a hung server using just that program.) I don't use my Palm Pilot much any more, but I've been thinking of writing some rudimentary shop software for it. For instance, it'd be nice to put the table for tap drills into it, along with a speed/feed calculator. If it could also listen to a spindle tach, and drive a rotary table, that' be nice. I honestly don't know what I'd want from it, except to be able to say, "This gear has X many teeth, so when I hit this button, move the right amount." But it's a neat thought. Tom ------- From: Tony Jeffree Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 3:12 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Re: Indexer There's *absolutely* no guarantee that playing with some PICs will change that - probably the contrary ;-) Regards, Tony ------- Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:37:31 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Is this good or what [INDEXING ON LATHE] bustersx~xxfrognet.net writes: > Why is there indexing on a metal lathe [gee,I`m dumb] and > what is it used for. One use is when you have to make a hex head bolt from scratch. Use the indexing holes and pin to lock the spindle while you file (there are gadgets called "file rests" that guide the file in a straight line) the six flats on the head. I have used mine to index for gear cutting by locking the spindle and using the cross slide to crank very light cuts with a shaped tool. John Meacham High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock. ------- Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:28:55 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Question Regarding Truing the Rotary Table [sherline] From: "Daniel J. Statman" > I use my rotary table in the vertical position with the three jaw chuck mounted to the chuck adapter in the center of the table. My parts are spun on the lathe with the three-jaw chuck and then the surface of a ring is faced down to give whatever outside diameter in need. Therefore, this ring surface is running true to the rotation of the chuck. I then unmount the chuck from the lathe and mount it on the rotary table without removing the ring. I then spin the rotary table and my ring is not true to the rotation of the table. What can I do to make this run true? Is this just the nature of the beast, or is there an adjustment that I am not considering. I have cleaned everything and there is no debris on any of the threads on either the chuck or the adapter plug. Let me know your thoughts, and thank you for any help. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com < Hi Dan: You are up against "tolerance buildup" here. The Lathe spindle threads on the Sherline are normally very good, since they are single point threaded on a CNC turning center at the same time the bearing surfaces are turned. The centering plug on the turntable is another matter however. It goes into a tapped hole which likely has a bit of runout, and it has two threads on it, each of which may run out a bit relative to the axis of the turntable. What you need to do for a dead-accurate setup, is to make a threaded plug that you can ADJUST to bring it into dead center alignment. Two ways to do this: 1) THE QUICKER WAY Turn up a short plug with 3/4:16 NF threads in the 4 jaw chuck and mount the chuck together with its plug on the turntable. Then spin the 3 jaw onto it. and tweak the jaws of the 4 jaw until the turned ring in the 3 jaw runs true. Note: with this setup you have BOTH chucks mounted; the 4 jaw next to the turntable face, and the 3 jaw on the stub that is in the 4 jaw. This setup will be comparatively flimsy and hangs a long way out from the face of the turntable. It also ties up two chucks, but it's quick. 2) THE BETTER WAY: Turn up a rectangular block so you've got a 3/4 NF stub on one end of it, and a big square flange on the other. (Substantially bigger than the body of the 3 jaw chuck so you can access the mounting screws with the 3 jaw in plac.e) Make the flange about 1/4" thick. Poke 4 clearance holes for 10:32 screws into the corners of the flange. On the back side of the flange, turn a stub that is small enough to slip into the center hole of the turntable with 0.005 to 0.010 clearance (this is to rough center the stub quickly when you set it up). Mount this stub on the turntable and snug up the screws so you can still move it around when you tap it. Spin on the 3 jaw with a ring blank in it, and indicate the turned surface in until you are satisfied with it. Snug up the screws and you're in business. This stub arbor simply replaces the one that you're already using, but it's adjustable. Once it's set, you can use it with the same precision over and over again (until you strip it off the table for any reason). Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:36:00 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Question Regarding Truing the Rotary Table [SHERLINE GROUP] >I then spin the rotary table and my ring is not true to the rotation of the table. What can I do to make this run true? Is this just the nature of the beast, or is there an adjustment that I am not considering.< Dear Daniel: Due to the number of threads involved in the adapter-to-chuck fit, it is very hard to keep it prefectly concentric. The center hole and thread are used in the production process to turn the outer diameter of the rotary table, so the hole should be within .0005" of center. The adapter is turned in a single operation with the threads being single- pointed, so it is held to within .0005" also. Even so, with 4 threads to deal with you could still be out .001" to .002" if all tolerances were added together. The more likely source of runout is the chuck not seating perfectly flat with the rotary table. If there are any dings on the back of the chuck or the surface of the rotary table, they will cock the chuck at an angle when it is tightened. Make sure these surfaces are perfectly smooth and flat and that there are no chips between the two surfaces. Check also the threads of the adapter and the holes in the rotary table and chuck for chips or dings. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:21:07 EST From: tadici283x~xxcs.com Subject: Re: Rotary Tables [taigtools about Sherline 4" Rotary Table ] 2/28/2002, tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk writes: > The worm shaft has ball races at each end & the > table has a (large) ball race at the bottom of the spindle. Extremely > smooth operation. They do an adapter for the Sherline chuck to attach - > may also work with the Taig chuck (not tried so far). All chucks, (I have them all) three jaw and four jaw, work very nicely. I have the CNC rotary table and can tell you that the arbors fit nice, in fact Sherline gives you a threaded adapter that allows 3/4 16 tpi items to be mounted on it. I have also mounted the Face plate and (all Taig accessories) have worked out well. A neat short cut: don't waste your money on a $50.00 part that holds the rotary table at 90* get a small cast iron angle support, I got mine at Enco and the greatest surprise is that all the holes are drilled in the correct spot!! -cost, is $12.00 and the "runout" is excellent. The only drawback when working with Sherline's rotary table and chucks with the the Taig mill is that you will have to most likely move up the Z column a few threads if you intend to drill or mill anything but the flattest item, due to Taig's concept of grand overkill this is more of an inconvenience than dysfunction. Chris of Bradenton FLA. ------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:59:36 -0000 From: "smitty8002000" Subject: Indexing attachment trouble I have a very weird problem that I need some help with. I am trying to machine a slot (1/8") wide down the center of a shaft (lengthwise). Now, if I set up my vise, get it square to the mill, the slot is dead center in the part that I am making. Now, if I swap to my indexing attachment, square it up to the mill,just like the vise, my slot is off to one side. I am using a 3 jaw chuck to hold the part, and a milling collet to hold the 1/8 endmill. I have used edge finders, the smooth side of end mills with sharpie pen ink, shim stock, just to be sure I have found the correct EDGE, and take my measurements from there, and using the Indexing attachment, it is always off. What am I missing here? The vise works perfectly, but I need the Indexing head to mill holes 90 deg. to the 1/8" slot. I do have indexing blocks, but that was the whole reason I got the attachment! Any help you can provide would be great, I am stumped!! Could I be losing steps within the DRO? But would that not effect the vise as well? Smitty ------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:03:57 -0600