This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Many tips by owners on using your Sherline lathe or solving problems. A Sherline mill or lathe owner will get some useful information by reading the Taig mill and lathe files as the machines are similar enough in size to share some problems and solutions and tooling. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2015 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:33:09 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: How to use cut-off tool with riser blocks? > I'm probably missing something simple, but I can't find a means to use the > cut-off tool with the riser blocks in place... Dear Bill, At this time Sherline does not offer a riser block for the standard cutoff tool holder, although it is an easy item to make. Use a block similar to the rear cutoff tool riser block but make it the same height as the headstock riser block. See www.sherline.com/3016pg.htm for a photo of the similar item. It's just a block of the proper height with a hole through it. You will need a longer socket head screw to accommodate the extra length. For those who have the quick-change toolpost system (P/N 2250), there is now a riser block for that setup which would allow you to use a cutoff tool. It is P/N 2251. A riser block was not included in the line because only small parts should be parted with it, and it was felt that the riser blocks would only be used when turning large parts. We are finding, however, that many people leave the riser blocks in place all the time, so perhaps a riser for the cutoff tool will be a future accessory addition. --Craig Libuse Sherline Products -------------------------------- From: "Hoeffer, Ty" Date: Fri Jul 7, 2000 4:47 pm Subject: RE: [sherline] resettable handwheels worthwhile? >>>>From: Dave Martindale Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 I'm currently using a borrowed Unimat minilathe, but thinking of buying my own. The Sherline is one of the main contenders. For those of you with the "adjustable zero" handwheels, I have a couple of questions: How do they work - is the black round thing visible on the front of the handwheel the lock for the collar engraved with the numbers? How well do they work - is it practical to reset the collar to zero without disturbing the position of the handwheel itself? Overall, are they worth the extra $50 or so when getting a new lathe? Dave <<<< YES! The Resettable handwheels are ABSOLUTELY worth it. I constantly reset the handwheels. They are invaluable when machining so that you can loate the axis move a point & reset the wheel to ZERO & then move a specific amount from that point. Yes the black knob is the lock for the indexed wheel. I have never had a problem accidentally bumping the handwheel while resetting. If you buy the lathe without You will end up upgrading soon after. Otherwise you will have to write the setting down, figure out the amount to turn to & what number to stop at, as opposed to reseting to zero, turn the wheel until you hit the needed number. The .050" per turn means just two turns per .10". Ty ------- From: "Dean Williams" Date: Fri Jul 7, 2000 4:49 pm Subject: Re: resettable handwheels worthwhile? Hello Dave; Yes the small black knob is to lock the engraved collar. I have these collars on my 4400 and 5400 lathe and mill. They are no trouble to reset to zero while maintaining the handwheel position. Just use a gentle touch while doing so. I would not even consider a lathe or mill without them. They make it much easier to keep track of things. Cheers: Dean W ------- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:48:01 EDT From: aermoterx~xxaol.com Subject: Tailstock problems Last spring someone was having problems with their tailstock not lining up with the headstock. I was having the same problems and tried my best to correct it. I now have discovered the cause and have corrected it. A friend of mine came over today to level up my big lathe for me and when he was done I took the level and checked my sherline. It seems that the bed was twisted some 40 thousands out due to an unlevel bench where it was mounted. Now with the lathe level, the twist is gone and the tailstock lines up like it should and the slight taper problem that I had is gone. Tim Christoff Basehor, Ks. ------- Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:01:58 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Tailstock problems It seems that the bed was twisted > some 40 thousands out due to an unlevel bench where it was mounted. > Now with the lathe level, the twist is gone and the tailstock lines up > like it should and the slight taper problem that I had is gone. Dear Tim, thanks for the reminder. This is another reason we recommend mounting the lathe and mill to a piece of flat shelf material on rubber feet. It is not only portable and quiet, but it also eliminates twist introduced by mounting to a warped surface. Like a dry cleaner being blamed for missing buttons, we often get blamed for problems that are introduced after the machine leaves the factory. Sincerely Yours, Craig Libuse ------- Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:53:26 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Re-packing Sherline lathe into its box Dear Mike, I just watched a 4400 being packaged. You didn't specify which machine you have, but the prodedures are similar: 1. Insert the large cardboard insert into the bottom of the box with the "wings" sticking up. The smaller insert with the cutout for the base goes on the "floor" of the box. 2. The crosslide is removed from the lathe and wrapped in bubble pack. It is placed against one side of the box and then the "wings" of the insert are folded in a triangle shape so they go down to where the base of the machine will rest. 3. The motor and speed control are removed from the headstock. The motor is packaged in the largest box with the cord sticking out and still attached to the speed control. Set aside, it is packed later. 4. A small piece of cardboard is placed across the left end of the cutout in the bottom to keep the lathe base from shifting. Then the lathe is placed into the cutout shape in the bottom insert with the headstock end to the left. The faceplate is installed on the spindle nose. (The handwheels remain on the tailstock and leadscrew.) 5. A long piece of cardboard (actually one of the cutouts from the cardboard base) is laid on the saddle with its ends sticking up at both the headstock and tailstock end. 6. There are two middle sized boxes that are placed on end and crossways on the lathe bed starting at the headstock. The first contains the 3-jaw chuck. The second contains all the miscelleanous parts like the motor mount, belt, screws, hex keys, etc. 7. Next, the speed control is placed next to the second box with the cord sticking downward and the motor (in its box) is wedged sideways across the bed between the two sides of the cardboard insert. Finally the largest of the boxes containing the other chuck is placed next to the motor box on the lathe bed. (It should come even with the inside of the top of the box for support.) 8. A piece of cardboard is folded and placed next to this box, and then the tailstock is loosened and shoved up tightly against the last box and then retightened. A few turns on the tailstock handwheel lock all the boxes together so they can't move. 9. A piece of cardboard is folded over several times and wedged between the left end of the box and the end of the spindle shaft. 10. A smal empty box was provided. This is placed between the leadscrew handwheel and the other end of the box to lock the machine in place and protect the handwheel handle. The two plastic belt guard pieces are wrapped in bubble pack and inserted anywhere there is room. Bubblepak can be rolled up and pressed into any voids to prevent any shifting of the machine. The instructions go in last and the box is sealed. Hope this helps. Craig Libuse Sherline ------- Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:46:42 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Re: Re-packing Sherline lathe into its box Mike: Over the years, the shippers have treated merchandise rougher and rougher. We have had to continually improve our packing methods to make sure the tools arrive undamaged. I didn't mention it, but when shipping by mail or UPS, we normally place the sealed lathe box inside a larger box with foam "peanuts" between the two. If a moving company is handling yours, the single box should be sufficient. Sincerely Yours, Craig Libuse ------- Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:53:39 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Faceplate > Is it possible to use the faseplate by clamping things to it in order > to use it in the lathe? (or is the face plate to weak) Joachim: One of the main purposes of the faceplate is to hold parts. If the slots provided don't work for you, feel free to drill and tap it, turn it, customize it in any way you want to mount parts. Parts can also be attached with "superglue" and then heated with a torch to remove them. They are only $8 and are considered "disposable". If you clamp and out-of-balance part to it, watch your turning speed. You can add counterweights to get it close to balanced if necessary. See page 119 (2nd printing) of "Tabletop Machining" for a photo of Bob Bresslauer making custom model car wheels. He has 9 faceplates shown, each with a brass wheel blank bolted up to it. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:55:37 -0500 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: snapping t-nuts Original Message ----- From: To: > How much pressure should be put on the t-nut that holds a tool holder > to the cross slide. I have managed to bend one and snap one completely > off. However, no matter how much preasure I put on them, the tool > holders seem to want to rotate. Is there a recommended amount of torque > which would be applied to them? Is there a way to have them hardened? You are applying WAY to much torque to the nuts. You might want to start looking at other sources for the slipping of the toolholder rather than not enough torque on the t-nuts. These sources can be: chips under the tool holder (embedded in the block even), oil, dirt, other crap, etc. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:04:58 EST From: Cmcvclockx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: snapping t-nuts In a message dated 12/3/01, kevin.sedotax~xxps.net writes: > However, no matter how much pressure I put on them, the tool > holders seem to want to rotate Its possible that you have distorted the cross slide to the point where there is a high spot which would make it easy for the holder to rotate - check it out with a known straight edge to make sure. I snug mine fairly well, but don't try to get overly tight, never had a problem except when I tried taking too deep of a cut. Chris -------- Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:58:37 -0600 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: snapping t-nuts Make sure the tool holder and table (cross slide) are clean, free of chips, oil and grease. A sharp, properly ground tool mounted in the tool holder correctly will take little feed pressure to cut most metals (even heavy cuts). Snug will al that is required to mount the tool holder. Forrest ------- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:14:55 -0500 From: "Marshall Pharoah" Subject: Re: snapping t-nuts Kevin, I have experienced the toolposts turning also, although I haven't yet snapped a t-nut. Generally it happens because the bit is so far out it gives lots of leverage. Sometimes you need the bit out that far for clearance. What I did was screw down a bar in front of the toolpost. The bar straddled both slots and butted right up against the toolpost. That was enough to keep it from spinning. My new quickchange toolpost spins easily also, I'm looking at a similar solution for it soon. Marshall ------- Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 21:52:16 -0500 From: "Marshall Pharoah" Subject: New photo added to group album Thought you might like to see the new home I built for my Sherline lathe, It's in the Frog album as cabinet.jpg. The cabinet is made from scrub oak. The lathe is sitting on a 1/2 inch thich aluminum base mounted in a revere-ware cake pan as a chip tray. The drawers are empty at the moment, but I'll be lining them and adding dividers to hold tooling specific to the lathe. Marshall ------- Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 05:34:00 -0000 From: "kentfreeman" Subject: Re: Tooling plate on lathe cross slide In sherlinex~xxy..., "Brad Butler" wrote: >>> Just a curiosity how many of you out there that are using the milling column's on the lathe are using a tooling plate on top of the lathe cross slide? I am having a problem that when I bolt down a tooling plate the cross slide becomes twice as hard to move. I have never over tightened any mounting bolts and the lathe is quite new. If I loosen the mounting bolts up any more the tooling plate will not stay put. When I bought the milling column I made a 1/2" thick tooling plate out of stress relieved steel and surface ground and verified that it was indeed flat (I am a professional machinist and mechanical engineer). I have not tried the Sherline auxiliary tooling plate but I can't believe I would get any different result. Maybe I am just a perfectionist used to operating full sized mills. Is anyone else having this same problem. I have thought about shimming the plate but this is kind of a pain to do each time I switch to a milling setup. I would like to use a tooling plate to protect the aluminum cross slide. P.S going to bring my good indicators home this weekend and try to determine if and how much the cross slide is out. Thanks Brad Butler, AccelPak <<< I have the same problem. I also have a similar problem when I use a tool post. The cross slide gets stiff. ------- Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:10:33 -0600 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: Re: Tooling plate on lathe cross slide Mount the tool plate and then adjust the gib for the cross slide. For the tool post you should remove all oil and grease from the bottom of the tool post and top of the cross slide. A little rubbing AL will work. Shorten the amount of tool hanging out of the post too. After some use the cross slide and tool post mounting surfaces will be ruffed up enough to increase the amount of friction between the two parts, less torque will then be required on the fixing bolt. Over tightening will distort the extruded AL cross slide enough to cause the problem you speak of. Forrest ------- Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:04:31 -0500 From: "Daniel J. Statman" Subject: Re: Largest O.D > What is the largest O.D that can be chucked up in the 4400 lathe?Is > it large enough to turn blanks for R/C car wheels? This would be in > the 2-2.125" diameter range.What is the repeatability of these > machines in a cnc application? Small machines are new to me i'm used > to stuff that you can actually stand in to clean out at the end of > the day.I just want to make sure that when I buy a pair of machines I > can do what I want to do on them and be happy,at least for a while.I > know that for model car parts these are the machines of choice.Any > info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Big E. I do not have much experience with diameters larger than 1.25", but I will try to help you. Since the chuck is 3" in diameter and the jaws are reversible you should have no problem chucking up a 2.125" diameter piece. You can also buy sets of soft jaws and true them up to your machine whenever you feel the need for extra accuracy. The main problem with the large diameters is that there is very little holding force that the chuck jaws can provide so you need to use a steady-rest if the part is longer than about 2". But the Sherline steady-rest holds a maximum diameter of 1.75", so you will have to make your own if you want to work on longer pieces. If you keep the machine well adjusted and clean, the repeatability will be very good, but I cannot give you a quantifiable number since it depends on so many factors. you will learn the limitations of the machine very quickly and adapt to its small size. If it doesn't suit your needs then sell the lathe on eBay for about 80-90% of your purchase price. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:04:13 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Largest O.D The 4400A comes with a 3.1" chuck that can hold parts up to 2.75" with the jaws reversed. I have noticed, however, that people who turn complicated car wheels often mount the billet to a faceplate rather than using the chuck. This can be screwed onto either the lathe spindle or the rotary table chuck adapter, so the part can be worked on in the lathe and mill without removing it from the faceplate until you are ready to part if off and work on the back side. Mounting to a faceplate would give a much more secure mounting than holding it in a chuck with the jaws reversed. There are some photos of Bob Breslauer making car wheels in this manner in Joe Martin's book, "Tabletop Machining" on page 119. Bob bought several faceplates so he could work on a whole set of wheels at one time, doing four wheels with each setup before breaking it down. Also, with the P/N 1291 riser block set in place, larger diameter parts can be turned, but it sounds like your 2-2.125" wheels are well within the capability of the 4400. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- From: "Marcus & Eva" Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 8:40 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] Sources for small cutters From: "xtremelyblue" > I've been looking on the Internet for small reamers, taps, and end > mills and have found a few places. I was wondering where you all > purchase your cutters? Also do you recommend getting a die set or is > the Sherline threading attachment a better way to go? Thanks, Darren. Hi Darren: I get Garr brand cutters (carbide) from my local machine tool dealer (Thomas Skinner and Son). I buy Niagara HSS cutters and Butter- field reamers from the same source. Same for Yamawa and Guhring taps. Don't bother to get a die set if you want to do accurate work such as is required for modelmaking. Single point threading is far more accurate, and versatile. Dies are for crude work only. Anytime you need good concentricity or an odd pitch, you can't use a die. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:43:53 +0100 (MET) From: Eivind Lund Vikebø Subject: Chuck jaws, again... :-) I have a 3-jaw 2.5" Sherline chuck, and I'd like to improve its accuracy/runout. I've found some different sources of runout: 1) Chuck threads against threads on spindle. 2) Chuck jaws against the scroll. 3) Dimensions of the jaws. 4) Scroll fit on chuck body. 5) ...suggestions? First I disassembled the chuck, cleaned it thoroughly, cleaned the spindle threads and mounted the chuck on the spindle. To check the first point I chucked up a round piece of metal and used a DTI close to the chuck to measure runout. I marked the point on the chuck where the round piece was "highest". After several "Take-chuck-off Put-chuck-on Measure" operations I saw that the runout and the highest point were the same every time. Fine. If the scroll is inaccurate I think it would give max runout at different points around the chuck, depending on the diameter of the part. To check the runout I made a lot of measurements. I measured the runout on 18 different end mills and drills. I used many different dimensions to get the jaws placed at different positions in the scroll. Every piece was fastened, measured, loosened, rotated and fastened again three times. I then calculated the average of the different pieces, and the average of all the measurements. The total average was 6.5/100 mm, and the standard deviation for the different pieces was 1.1/100 mm. The highest point was always very close to the jaw marked "B". This indicates that the jaws are located at different distances from the center. I also tried tighten the chuck using the same holes for the Tommy bars several times on the same piece of metal, but it didn't seem to improve the accuracy. It seems like it would improve the runout if I could grind about 9.3/100 mm off jaw "A" and "C". Then the runout will not have an average offset of 6.5/100 mm from the center. My problem is that I'm not sure about the best way to grind a few 1/100 mm off the jaws. It was mentioned in an earlier posting that the jaws are case hardened, does anyone know how deep the hardening is? Ideas/suggestions/comments? Eivind L. Vikebø ------- Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:17:00 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Chuck jaws, again... :-) >It was mentioned in an earlier posting that the jaws are >case hardened, does anyone know how deep the hardening is? Eivind, The case hardening on the chuck jaws is called out at .030" thick (.76 mm). Note also that when we grind them in our fixture, we angle the headstock slightly so that the rotary grinder takes a little more off the inside part of the jaw compared to the tip. In other words, when the jaws close, they should touch at the tip before they touch at the back. This is because the jaws have a tendancy to "tip" when tightened because they are pulled by the scroll at the bottom. If they are perfectly square, they tend to grip more at the bottom of the jaw than the top. If a chuck is out of tolerance it can always be returned to the factory for fine-tuning under warranty, but the runout spec on 3-jaw self- centering chucks is .003" (.076mm). If your runout is .065 mm you are within the allowable tolerance of the chuck. With careful work you may be able to fine-tune it to closer tolerances. Worst case, if you make it worse instead of better, you can always return it to the factory and we will install new jaws and recheck it for $35.00 plus shipping. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:51:59 +0100 From: "Joachim Reif" Subject: Thread Next week I´ll get my threadcutting attachment. When reading about it more specificly I read that - with the metric lathe it was not possible to cut finer threads than 40 TP. I wonder why? Is it not possible due to the metric main rod or is it due to that a gear is not included in the standard set? Not that I am going to produce a lot of your "strange" threads but the treads that are represented on the lathe. I think the most common threads here are 32, 24, 20 TPI. Have had the lathe with tools and vertical milling column for about 3 months I can say that that the Sherline is great. I have since then made tools, morse cones, slitting saw arbor, milling table for the lathe, knurling tool, and started with my steamengine. I recommend after using some more advanced milling tools to buy the sherline X-Y table. I will do so as soon I can afford it. Joachim Reif Gothenburg Sweden ------- Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:24:58 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Re: Thread >>When reading about it more specificly I read that - with the metric lathe it was not possible to cut finer threads than 40 TP. I wonder why? Is it not possible due to the metric main rod or is it due to that a gear is not included in the standard set? << Using the metric leadscrew to cut inch gears requires the substitution of the 127 tooth gear for the 100 tooth gear used in the inch setups in the "A" position. The "A" gear is a 100-tooth gear for all gear sizes from 5 TPI up to 40 TPI. Beyond that size, the "A" gear changes to a 50-tooth gear. Substituting the 127 tooth gear no longer provides the correct conversion factor between the two systems of measurement. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:21:45 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: More stuff to want Mark: You can put the threading attachment on the machine without removing the motor. Here's a pointer to a picture showing how it's done http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/files/Machining%20tiny%20th readed%20part/Thread%20milling%20rig.jpg I've tried it and it works for me. I don't know why Sherline doesn't show this method, unless they're afraid that someone'll run the motor to make the thread. Jerry ------- Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:56:34 -0500 From: Thomas Gilmour Subject: Re: Locking the crossslide > Is anybody aware of a way to lock the crossslide on the Sherline > lathe? Do I need to modofy the lathe or is there some way to > accomplish this that I missed in the manual?> > Sorry if this seems to be a dumb question, I just haven't found > it in the manual. Thanks, Dan Kaschner There is no crosslide lock on the lathe. You can add one by mounting a small rectangular plate to the left side of the saddle, just in front of the bed, with a 10-32 SHCS. The plate extends up to contact the left side of the saddle when the screw is tightened. Add a rollpin below the screw to keep the plate from spinning out of position. Tom ------- Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:09:09 -0800 From: "Brad Butler" Subject: A lesson in deflection I was bored today so I decided to sit down and figure out exactly what impact deflection had on my Sherline long bed lathe. I started out by aligning the head to the cross slide using a hardened 3/8" dowel pin held in my 4 jaw chuck. After some fiddling I was able to get the head within .0001 over a 1 1/2" length in the horizontal axis. In the vertical axis the closest I was able to get it was within .001. Note, vertical adjustments require shimming the head and a little goes a very long way. Even a layer of oil on the bed prior to bolting the headstock down does make a difference. Anyway, then I made a series very light cuts (.001) in a 1/2" dia 6061 aluminum bar with a very sharp cutter. The result was a taper of 2 thousands over a 1 1/2" length. No matter how light the cut I was unable to improve on this without a follower rest. Next I rechucked the test pin and it measured exactly the same. Now I chucked a 1" dia brass bar and made several light cuts again. The difference was 1 1/4 thousands over 1 1/2" length. Again the test pin measurement remained unchanged. The only remaining factors were the vertical misalignment and cutter/work deflection. Now what does this tell me, that to get a very accurate cut on a bar I must align the head using test cutting only and not rely on a ground pin no matter how accurate it is. Now this may not seem to astounding to the more experienced machinists out there but while I have a great deal of time on full size mills I do not have much experience with the lathe yet. Before starting I figured that I would have possibly .0005 in difference from end to end. In order to get that kind of accuracy I had to simply do a little amount of hand work afterwards with some 1200 grit sand paper. Just thought I would post my findings. P.S. Think a full size mill is ridgid, just pushing on the head of a Bridgeport while checking the tram of the head will make a difference on your dial indicator! Brad B. ------- Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:15:49 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: More stuff to want Matt, any Sherline lathe can be purchased without the headstock/motor /speed control assembly for $160 less than the full lathe price. This is not listed on the price lists, but is available as a special order direct from the factory or through dealers. (Replacement price for a new headstock/motor/speed control is $260.00 if you buy it later.) The headstock/motor unit is identical on all Sherline lathes and mills and can be swapped back and forth. Keep in mind that though it takes only seconds to swap the headstock, depending on the level of accuracy needed in your job it can take a while to indicate it in for proper alignment. If budget is a primary consideration perhaps this additional work each time can be justified by the $160.00 savings; however, if you find you are switching back and forth a lot and the extra time becomes a hassle, you will pay a $100 penalty to add the second headstock/motor unit later on. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:29:24 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Threading with motor attached >>>I have one question for Craig regarding the practice of threading with the motor attached. Will the feedback from the motor turning during threading damage the DC drive? Some drives are easily damaged by reverse feedback. Is the one that Sherline supplies able to deal with the feedback? I have not tried threading with the motor attached for this very reason as I am not too keen on the idea of having to replace the DC drive. Brad Butler. <<< This can be a problem; however, we have not had any reports of damaged lectronics from the people who are using their threading attachment with the motor in place. The low speeds involved in hand cranking probably will not produce enough current to do damage. It's not much worse than using the spindle handwheel to index the spindle by hand. If it is a concern for you, I would suggest you simply loosen the two motor adjustment screws and take tension off the belt so it slips. This will also make it easier to turn the threading handwheel. When you plug your machine back in and reconfigure for regular turning again, just remember to push the motor out into position to tension the belt and retighten the screws. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:15:16 -0700 (PDT) From: samedi Subject: Removing stubborn handwheel Hi gang, I've been lurking a few weeks picking up some good tips. Now I've got a problem I haven't been able to solve. I'm trying to recondition a pair of used 4000 lathes I bought recently, and one of them is giving me a real headache because I can't get the X-axis handwheel to come off. It's a zero-settable wheel and after backing the setscrew out as far as it will go (not all the way out but far enough that it shouldn't be holding anything) I can't even pry the handle off with a screwdriver. The other lathe has come apart without any trouble, but had non-zeroable handwheels. Is there something obvious I'm missing, or are there any tips for getting the wheel off without breaking anything? Thanks, Brian ------- Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 21:40:10 -0400 From: RichD Subject: Re: Removing stubborn handwheel Brian, what has happened is the setscrew was tightened onto an area not in the groove provided and raised a burr. This locks the aluminum wheel onto the shaft. When you turn the wheel on the shaft two grooves are formed that further make the situation worse. All that can be done is to use a gear puller if they are the non- adjustable type. If they are adjustable, the shaft is in a blind hole. Unscrew the leadscrew from the slide and anchor the screw between smooth vise jaws protected with soft aluminum sheet strips. Now you can pull and twist the knob off. Hopefully there will be little damage. RichD ------- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:31:35 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: short vs. long bed lathe >Craig, why doesn't Sherline offer a package with short bed but larger >chucks and resettable handwheels? Is it just that anyone >who can afford these options also wants the longer bed? Dave, Sherline will sell you the lathe packages any way you want. The short bed lathe with the resettable handwheels is popular with watchmakers and is designated P/N 4500. You can order the 4500 lathe with the A, B or C packages. We normally supply the smaller chucks with the short bed lathe as a cost saving measure, but you can specify the larger chucks and just pay the difference in cost for the chucks ($30 more for the 3.1" 3-jaw and $10 more for the 3/8" drill chuck. We don't recommend the 3/8 drill chuck with the short bed lathe because it is longer than the 1/4" chuck and the extra length eats up a lot of the available space between centers. While OK for short drills, the advantage of the 3/8" chuck is the ability to hold drills up to 3/8". Most 3/8" drills are pretty long, so by the time you put on a longer 3/8" chuck and a long 3/8" drill plus a 3-jaw chuck on the other end, you don't have much of your 8" center-to-center distance left for a part. This is the main reason we came out with the longer bed lathe. When using a big 3/8" chuck and longer drills or reamers, you never run out of working room with 17" between centers, but if you want the short lathe with the bigger chucks, Sherline will certainly sell a package that way. Just talk to Kim and tell her what you want. However, if you are planning to work on projects where a 3/8" drill chuck is called for, I think many list members will agree, sooner or later you will be wishing you had opted for the longer lathe. The 4000A lists for $550.00 and the 4400A lists for $675.00 The 4500A is $595.00 When you add and extra $40.00 for the larger chucks, you are up to $635.00. The 4400 also comes with a rocker tool post which costs $15.00 more than the standard tool post that comes with the 4500, so the extra length is really only costing you $25.00 more. If you don't mind reaching an extra 9" for the leadscrew handwheel, I still think the 4400 is worth considering. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:57:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Lan Brooks Subject: Re: short vs. long bed lathe About 14 years ago I bought the shortbed lathe under a Jensen Tools label and it worked fine, except for one part of a project that had one piece that was 5" long. I never could get this part with a consistent finish due to having to move the tool holder around to get both ends. (I could do better now I think since I was just learning at the time.) When I finally "trashed" this lathe, after 10 years of abusing it, I bought the then new long bed lathe. I have not regretted the decision although it does take up a bit of workbench space. I think if you are planning non working on anything over about 4" long in the lathe, you should consider the long bed lathe just to ensure that your setups and tooling do not get crowded. The extra length is really not very noticeable, although I bought a mill when I bought the long bed lathe so I don't have experience there, and if this is the first lathe you have it won't feel awkward since you won't know any different. Lan ------- Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:07:02 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Leaving the group To the group, Joe and I have decided not to have me continue to monitor the group on a daily basis. This being a "users group", we felt our presence might be considered "spying" and might hamper the free flow of ideas and comments. Also, building and maintaining the Foundation's Craftsmanship Museum in addition to my regular job limits the time I have available to read and answer all the postings. This will in no way limit anyone from asking a question of me directly if it relates to something I can answer. Just e-mail me at craigx~xxsherline.com or call (800) 541-0735 during business hours. I consider this group to be a very valuable resource for Sherline machinists and will continue to refer new customers to join the group. Thanks or all your help. Sincerely Yours Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:14:01 -0000 From: "clibuse" Subject: Re: Leaving the group - a missed opportunity for Sherline Eric and all the group, Thanks for your support. I have rejoined the group but will not be receiving the daily e-mails. I will read the current posts as time allows. If anyone has a question that needs my attention, please let me know to check on the thread and can respond directly to the whole group. By the way, I agree with your suggestion that we should promote this group more prominently than with just a link from our resources page. This group does a great service to the company by answering technical questions that would otherwise have to be handled by me or someone else here on out 800 number. All that aside, I have come to feel as though I know a number of the members and have great respect for their opinions and solutions. I will do my best to check in when I can. Thanks again. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 10:41:24 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: attaching self-centering 3-jaw chuck Subject: [sherline] attaching self-centering 3-jaw chuck > How do I fit the 3-jaw self-centering chuck onto the lathe spindle? > I fitted the drill chuck onto the spindle quite some time ago and > can't exactly remember how I did it. I think it was attached using a > drawbolt from the back? Is this correct? Anyway, I have unscrewed the > drawbolt from the back, but I can't seem to be able to remove the > threaded-something onto which I screwed the drill chuck, from the > spindle. Reattached the drawbolt and tapped gently with a rubber > mallet, then tried to pull the threaded something out, but no luck. > It appear to me that if I manage to pull the threaded something out, > there is a bigger "threaded something" behind this smaller "threaded > something" which I can't remove, to attache the self-centering 3-jaw > chuck? Is this correct? Thanks jen The drill chuck is a press-fit into the tapered inside opening of the spindle, it is not threaded to the spindle. Put the draw bolt back into the other side of the spindle and screw it in until it is snug. Then back it out 2-3 turns and whack it with a hammer. This will pop the drill chuck out of the tapered spindle, just unscrew the drawbolt all of the way after it breaks loose with the hammer and it should all come apart. The 3-jaw chuck screws onto the threads which are on the outside of the spindle. There are two small holes behind the threads on the spindle where the Tommy bars fit, and three holes on the front chuck face for the other Tommy bar. Use two Tommy bars to get leverage to screw the chuck down tight. You can also check out Sherline''s website for future instructions on all of their tools. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 07:53:59 -0700 From: "Mark Iennaco" Subject: Re: attaching self-centering 3-jaw chuck The "Threaded Somthing" that you screw the Jacobs (drill) chuck into is called a: #1 MORSE ARBOR ADAPTER (11880) There is a picture of it here: http://www.sherline.com/images/1188picm.jpg Normal method to remove Morse Taper mounted accessories is to use the drawbar to push them out. To do this you want the drawbar screwed into the Taper (i.e. put it back in) and loosen it one turn back from tight. You then tap on it "Gently" (I use a plastic faced hammer) until the Morse Taper pops free. Then you unscrew the drawbar and remove both parts. "Gently" is an inaccurate term. You want to be as gentle as possible, but if the drawbar has been overtightened, or the Morse Taper has been in a long time (yours has been in a very long time) it often needs to be hit very hard to break it free. It is exactly in this situatuation that you should NOT hit it directly with a regular hammer. If you don't have a soft face hammer, then put a piece of wood or plastic between the hammer and the end of the drawbar. ------- Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:27:01 -0000 From: "tatkinsonavon" Subject: Morse taper release Many of us make a steel rod an inch or so longer than the distance from the tang of the chuck inside the spindle to the dead end of the spindle. This by preference should have a brass business end and knurling at the hand end. Just the weight of this rod dropped in the mill spindle a few times, or shoved sharply into the lathe spindle, is enough to solve my problem with stuck chucks every time. It's the sharp application of a light force which does the trick. Tracy ------- Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 04:39:12 -0000 From: "builder4wd" Subject: Boring Holes on location... lathe with milling attachment Qs I'm trying to make 2 identical flat aluminum parts that will basically sit parallel and mesh together 2 gears. I need to bore 2 holes in each part to hold bearings. The location of the holes are critical because too close or too far will ruin the gear mesh. I am having trouble making these holes accurately. I don't have much experience. This is what I did: 1. Use dead center to locate scribed center of hole. 2. Center drill 3. Enlarge with 6mm drill bit 4. Bore hole to size 5. repeat for other hole Is there a more accurate/better way to do this? I'm using a 4410 model lathe with milling attachment. I'm finding it difficult to work with the size of the part. It is approximately 4" long, 2" high, 1/4" thick.It is actually 5mm thick, made out of 1/4" aluminum plate. I had to fly cut it to thickness, securing it with the sherline vise and parallel bars. The thickness turns out +/- 0.2 mm at the corners of the part. Is there some way to make it more uniform without adjusting the machine? It's frustrating, I'd appreciate any help. ------- Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 11:38:38 -0700 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Boring Holes on location... lathe with milling attachment Qs HI builder? Just one suggestion, use the handwheels to do you measuring (take out backlash, measure in same direction). Move to first location, DON'T center punch, just use the center drill, enlarge, and bore. Keep the axis locked for these operations. THEN unlock, proceed to 2nd hole, and repeat. The punch could be throwing you off. HTH Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 01:23:19 -0000 From: "builder4wd" Subject: Re: Boring Holes on location... lathe with milling attachment Qs Can anyone help me with this? I think my biggest problem when using the milling attachment is the lathe saddle can't be locked in place. The saddle is pretty tight away from the headstock, near the handwheel, but it gets pretty loose near the headstock. The backlash allows the saddle to move back and forth when I'm boring, ruining my hole and adjustments. Is my lathe too worn? It's pretty new and I haven't used it that much, but it's relatively loose near the headstock. I'm also worried about the 0.2mm (.0078") backlash I get. I tried readjusting the saddle nut, but I couldn't reduce the backlash. I would really appreciate any comments or advice. Thanks. ------- Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 08:26:35 -0500 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: Boring Holes on location... lathe with milling attachment Qs Your back-lash is fine. The answer for your saddle movement is to make a lock for the saddle and for the cross-slide. There are some mods that have been done to correct these problems unfortunately I don't have the URLs to give you. Try Sherline's tip page. Anyone else on the Sherline news list that has that info please chime in. If you think your lathe bed has a taper to it you may want to contact Sherline to see If could be re-ground. Be sure to use lubricant on the bed often, failure to do so can give you the same problem in a very short amount of time. Forrest ------- Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:23:38 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: How deep a cut on the lathe with Aluminum? John, there are MANY opinions and charts and various other ways to get advice regarding these issues. What I have found is that given the size of the Sherline machine many of the published charts may not be correct for this application. Here is what I do: Start with 0.005" cuts at relatively slow speeds, and start increasing the spindle speed and see how the finish looks. When you are happy with this speed for the light cut, then start increasing the cut by 0.0025" at a time and decreasing the spindle speed slightly. Keep doing this until you are either uncomfortable going any deeper with the cut or the motor stalls. These are your two limits the high speed light cut and the low speed heavy cut. Pick something in the middle and you will get reasonable tool life and decent material removal. Personally, I cut only grade-5 titanium on my Sherline and I rarely exceed 0.0075" per cut. I use carbide insert tooling coated with titanium nitride and these bits last me for many cuts each. I use my lathe everyday for about 3 hours average and I change tool bits about once every 2 weeks. If I take heavier cuts then I change tool bits every 2-3 days. My advice to you is to experiment with your cutting on practice pieces. There is no better teacher than yourself as long as you understand how changing the parameters affects the outcome, and this is what you will learn from your trial and error. For the same cut depth and spindle speed you can vary the tool angle relative to the workpiece and see what is best for you. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:59:05 -0700 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: How deep a cut on the lathe with Aluminum? Hi John, further to Dan's advice, I thought I'd chip in what I typically use for Aluminum. With 6061 Aluminum, I typically take 0.010" cuts or 0.020" cuts for roughing, and smaller cuts for a nice finish. So far, I've just been using the pointed tool bit, and I think a rounded one will give a better finish (but I haven't gotten around to grinding a rounded tool bit yet). Also, if you're getting nice long stringy swarf, then you know you've got your speed/feed right. When you get the speed/feed right, then you can start to take bigger cuts. If your cutting bit is sharp, and you use cutting fluid, you can probably take bigger cuts, up to 0.050 (in Aluminum). But I would get comfortable with the smaller cuts first until you get a feel for things. I've stalled my motor a few times, and typically this means that you're trying to take off too much, or you're feeding too fast. Once, I had the work piece become dislodged. Saftey goggles are a MUST. You might also want to keep one hand near the power switch while you're experimenting, so you can turn the motor off in a hurry. Dave Hylands ------- Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:07:13 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Re: Eccentric in the Four Jaw Chuck Hi Bruce: It's a lot easier and faster to just clock it in, right in the lathe. Get it roughly centered, then shift two jaws just as you commented in your first post. The offset will be half the total clock deviation from high to low. This method will not get your eccentric aligned with any other features you may have on your shaft. If you need accurate radial alignment, you need to do the shaft in the mill. Best way is with a boring head and a bit set to cut outside diameters. The mill gives you the freedom to set up the radial alignment properly before you set the offset. If you've got goofy unmillable features that need to be turned, you can rough out a stub shaft on the mill, then transfer to the lathe and clock in your rough shaft. This works well for things like tapers, and snap ring grooves, and other features that are easy to turn but hard to mill. Hope this helps. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 23:53:04 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Re: Eccentric in the Four Jaw Chuck Hi Bruce: You need to have a boring head for the Sherline. You make a boring tool whose cutting edge points toward the central axis around which the boring head rotates, rather than outward as a conventional tool would be oriented. I have a milling machine that will run in reverse, so I can just spin a regular boring tool 180 degrees in its mounting bore, and then run the boring head in reverse, but on a stock Sherline you can't run in reverse, so you have to custom make a properly oriented tool. The main thing is that the cutting edge point inward so it can peel a shaving off the outside of a bar. Like I said, it's probably far easier to just clock the shaft eccentrically in the lathe using the 4 jaw. Another way is to set up a rotary table with the bar offset correctly on the turntable and then have at 'er with an endmill. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:50:09 -0800 From: "Scott A. Stephens" Subject: Threading I tried threading for the first time on the lathe and a funny thing happened. At some point the carbide tip chipped and well the part is now going to have to be remain :( Which is no biggie. My question is, is this a common problem when doing it by hand??? I usually either thread by tap and die, or on a lathe with power. I have never done it by hand before. Any insight would be great ------- Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:28:35 -0000 From: "geneking2001 " Subject: Re: Threading Scott, carbide usually breaks at the end of the thread because of the step left from stopping. I cut a relief with the cut off tool just a little deeper than the thread depth. this gives a groove for the tip of the carbide to cut into and not form the 'bump' at the end of the thread. gene ------- Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:09:25 -0500 From: "Ron Ginger" Subject: RE: Threading I suspect you made a very slight turn backward, so the cutting force was lifting the tool up instead of pushing down. This will almost always chip off the carbide. carbide has essentially no strength in tension, only in compression. NEVER let the tool run backwards even for the slightest distance. ron ginger ------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:39:37 -0000 From: "jimknighton1948 " Subject: Re: How can I make a 1" dia hole, 5" deep? [ON LATHE] Tom, while I haven't done a hole quite that deep, I've done some that come close. I've done holes up to about 3.25" diameter and 2" deep with a 3" boring head on my mill/drill, and 1.250" diameter and 4" deep on my 4400 lathe. Please note that my lathe has permanently installed riser blocks. The 1.25" x 4" hole was cut from a round blank of 7075 aluminum mounted to a faceplate. I also did a similarly sized hole in a blank drilled and tapped for 3/4" x 16 tpi threads that could be mounted directly on the lathe's spindle. Both approaches worked satisfactorily. The holes were accurately cut in both instances. I originally tried boring the deep holes to size with 3/8" tools that mount in the the standard Sherline toolposts, but they are way too flexible and whippy for holes that deep. I quickly discovered that I needed a much beefier boring bar or look for some other way to get the job done. My solution was to fabricate a custom toolholder and use a relatively heavy (by Sherline standards) 3/4" shank boring bar I had on hand. I have a set of 12 variously sized 3/4" shank boring bars for use with the afore mentioned boring head, the largest capable of boring to a depth of just over four inches, and this was satisfactory for the project at hand. The toolholder consists of a block of 6061 aluminum approx 5" x 3.5" x 2.75" (I don't have it in front of me for exact measurements) machined so that it bolts to the cross slide table with four t-nuts. It has an accurately bored 3/4" hole into which the boring bars fit. The boring bars are securely held in place with three 1/4" SHCS aligned axially with the centerline of the 3/4" hole. You might find it interesting that the 3/4" tool mounting hole was bored exactly on the centerline by first counting the blank on the cross slide table, drilling a 3/8" pilot hole using the spindle mounted jacobs chuck, and then enlarging the pilot hole using the Sherline boring head also mounted on the lathe's spindle. The blanks were prepared by drilling a pilot hole large enough to accomodate the boring bar through the center of the blank to the required depth. The blanks were then mounted on the spindle and the boring bar mounted in its holder on the cross slide. Once the setup was complete, boring was accomplished in the normal manner. For what it's worth, this setup looks grossly out of proportion to eyes accumstomed to "Sherline sized" projects. It works quite well, however. I had no problems with chatter, deflection, etc. and the surface finish on the finished bores was very, very good. On close examination of the finished bores I measured approx .001" taper over the 4" length of the bore. This was quite adequate for my project. I haven't been able to align my lathe's head any closer than this, so I concluded that there was negligable deflection resulting from the actual boring operation. I hope this helps. JBK ------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:05:32 -0800 From: "Scott A. Stephens" Subject: Re: Re: How can I make a 1" dia hole, 5" deep? I also wanted to drill a deep hole. Here is what I did and were I got the idea. It may or may not apply to what you want to do. I got the idea off Jose's Video on the Taig lathe. Make a bar with a hole in it to accept a cutter with a set screw on the side to hold the cutter. This bar should be long enough to run through centers. Drill the hole either on a bench press or lathe under side. Position just has to be close since you will open it up with the Bar and cutter. Once the hole is drilled attached the part to the lathe cross slide. Align as perfect as you want it to be. Run bar with cutter thru hole and fix to the head stock with a dog. Run the cross slide slowly forward or backward depending on how you set it up and slowly open the hole to desired dimension. Adjust tool till you have the hole as large as you need it. I spent a lot of time thinking about this. The part I needed the hole in was too large to mount on the chuck, and even if I did...the chuck could never safely support that much mass spinning. But by spinning the tool between centers.....Well I hope this helps. Thanks for the idea of the beefier boring bar holder. I will think about that a bit. ------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:16:24 -0000 From: "toysallround " Subject: Re: How can I make a 1" dia hole, 5" deep? Thank you for the info. I see applications for both methods. Scott, what size bar were you using to hold the cutter in order to get minimum deflection? Jim, I looked at Penn Tools and found a 3/4" shank boring tool which will bore up to 4-1/2 deep". Is this the type tool you are mounting in your holder? Tom ------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:22:28 -0000 From: "jimknighton1948 " Subject: Re: How can I make a 1" dia hole, 5" deep? Tom, I don't buy from Penn Tools, and I had a hard time navigating their site. I wasn't able to find the item you referenced. I bought my set from MSC (www.mscdirect.com). The set I purchased is listed on page 742 of their catalog (available online). From your description, however, it sounds like the Penn Tool item is a close match if not identical. It is a 3/4" diameter shank carbide tipped solid boring bar that cuts to 4.5" deep. For what it's worth, if I needed a "through" bore that large in diameter and as deep as you described instead of a "flat bottom pocket" I would probably use the technique Scott describes. I'm not entirely sure, but I think that technique is called "line boring." I've encountered descriptions of the technique so named in my casual reading but I'm not sure about the quality of the information. If the desired hole depth exceeds the capacity of the available boring bars you might want to consider a two piece design in which the bore is cut in one blank as Scott describes and then the flat bottom is actually a matching cap securely bolted in place afterwards - sort of like a cylinder head atop an engine block. Also, Joe Martin notes in his book that the preferred technique for a truely flat bottomed hole is to mount the workpiece on a rotary table and use a milling machine to cut the pocket with an end mill. I didn't feel comfortable trying that on my project and in any event I didn't have a suitable end mill. It would be some end mill that would cut a pocket that deep! I have the DRO option mounted on my lathe and set the "0" position to match the bottom of my hole. On each pass I advanced the boring bar to that point. That gave me a close approximation of a "flat bottomed hole". It really looks good, but its not as smooth, clean, and "perfect" as you can get with a good facing operation. In my project that wasn't a problem. Regards, JBK ------- Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 01:07:58 -0800 From: "Scott A. Stephens" Subject: 3 and four jaw chucks. Decided to check the head stock to see how much it is off. My question is putting a piece in the three jaw chuck. Yes I know I should use a collet but I do not have collets yet. Over 1 inch I measure a change of .001XX. My question is should I wait and get collets to make sure I am getting the head stock and not the error of the three jaw chuck? Also is measuring over the length of an inch and trying to twist the head the best way for me to do this? I've been at it for ruffly an hour and seem to have trouble getting finer the .001XX. Maybe I need a gentler hand. Thanks ------- Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 20:56:05 -0000 From: "Bryan Hassing " Subject: Profiling with the Sherline 4400 lathe? I own a Sherline 4400 lathe and build models of heavy trucks (Peterbilt, Kenworth, Mack, et al). I'd like to turn parts with curved profiles, such as air horns that have ends shaped like a bell. Does anyone here know of a source of information on using the Sherline lathe for this type of operation? Would disconnecting the cross-slide feed screw and following a cut-out profile with a stylus attached to the cross slide work? I don't have a CNC lathe and was about to resign myself to roughing parts in steps then finishing them off using files. But, I thought someone here might have actually tried this kind of turning. Thanks. Bryan ------- Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:02:10 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Profiling with the Sherline 4400 lathe? Bryan, check out Daniel's excellent web site: http://www.nutsnbits.com/ in particular: http://www.nutsnbits.com/nutsnbits_00000e.htm Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:04:06 -0500 From: "j.guenther" Subject: RE: Profiling with the Sherline 4400 lathe? You can turn them by hand using a process known as graving. This uses tools similar to those used with a wood lathe to turn metal. Do a google search for "graving tools" or "jewelry tools" and I am sure you will find the tools and some information on how to use them. John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, Virginia ------- Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:12:56 -0800 From: "Keith Yundt" Subject: Re: Profiling with the Sherline 4400 lathe? W.R. Smith is the expert on building/using graving tools. Do a search using his name and you will see lots of results. I made some gravers myself using his advice and they work beautifully. You have to build a rest (Bill Smith's design is available from Sherline) or make something yourself similar to one for a wood lathe. I was amazed how well they work. You could also make form tools for something like airhorns. Keith Yundt ------- Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:23:51 -0500 From: Daniel Munoz Subject: Re: Profiling with the Sherline 4400 lathe? Hello Bryan, sorry I'm 1 week late in my messages readings (BTW thanks Dave for your kind words about my site) but maybe this could still interest you. To turn brass with curves, I also rough parts in steps, very not very closely. Instead of files to finish the work, I use a technique I developed, close to WR Smith gravers, but not quite. Check this page, all the curves in the pieces have been made that way: http://www.nutsnbits.com/dollhouse.htm Check the spittoon, you can see the staircases before "graving". and also the candlestick and the mortar. I use very rarely metal files, instead I use my own way of graving. The finish is very smooth. I didn't describe it in my webpage, because my English is a little "fuzzy" and I'm afraid someone hurt himself using wrongly my instructions. Here's in a few word how I do it; - I take a 1/8" HSS round rod, ground at 45° on a end. My HSS rods are 3" long, and I use them that way, no handle. - I sometime also use a 1/8" HSS square rod, also ground at 45°. No handle either. The flat side is perfect to scrap plain surfaces. - Then, without using a support of any kind, I hand free shape the brass but FROM THE BACKSIDE. That way, the tendency of the cut is not to drag my hand below the rotating piece, but just to move it up the work, where there's no danger to be stuck into something. The rotation must be slow, of the tool will chatter and will not cut. Other advantages is that the chips go below, not in my face, and the absence of handle give less leverage power if the little HSS rod escape from my hands. This work very well for brass, poorly on aluminium. NEVER try that or harder metals ! Also, your hands are very close so don't use it on metal that generate chips with a sharp cutting edge. Brass is really a joy to cut that way. Daniel http://www.nutsnbits.com ------- Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 14:46:14 -0500 From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: chisels > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:08:14 -0600 > From: "G." > Subject: RE: Re: question about chisels [FOR METAL TURNING] > I was planning on starting to turn some brass. Any other place > where I could find them? OK, you have some major misconceptions here. First some terminology so called "metal Chisels" are called cold chisels and are used occasionally for cutting metal in a shearing operation, i.e. chopping of a frozen bolt or nut. They are basically crude tools. Hot chisels (also Hardy chisels) are used by blacksmiths to cut red hot metal. In turning operations you have two basic methods; using fixed toolbits in a tool holder with the toll moved via the carriage or cross slide on a lathe, or off hand or free hand turning. Off hand, which I suspect is what you are referring to is somewhat similar to wood turning though only using tools something like wood turning scrapers (as opposed to gouges or skews which cut as opposed to scrape). On off hand metal turning the tool is usually called a graver, is very small, and is hand held and guided against a tool rest which looks line a small tool rest on a wood lathe. W.R. (Bill) Smith has prepared a lot of material on lathe work for clockmakers which is where off hand turning was most frequently used See: http://horology.magnet.fsu.edu/wrsmith.htm For some of his books and videos. The one on graver turning is a gem though not cheap. See also: http://www.bartcotools.com/P134.html Gravers and other tools http://shorinternational.com/GraverOther.htm gravers etc http://www.iw63.freeserve.co.uk/temp/graver.pdf an article on use and sharpening of gravers. http://www.sherline.com/gravers.htm an article by Bill Smith on gravers http://www.sherline.com/2110inst.htm an article on a hand turning tool rest for the Sherline http://home.att.net/~tom.roma/graver.htm#Making%20The%20Gravers another Smith graver article Do a GOOGLE search on "graver turning" you will find pages of references Regards, Bradford Chaucer ------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:02:37 -0800 From: "Brown, Mark A (SPO)" Subject: Turning welded materials I have a friend who has a shaft that is worn. He wants to build it back up with weld then I am going to turn it back down to size for him. He says the weld is 85,000 tensil strength. Will this be a problem to turn? Thanks, Mark ------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:31:47 -0800 From: "Orrin Iseminger" Subject: Re: Turning welded materials It might be a problem on a Sherline. Welds are generally rough, making for an interrupted cut. That's the first problem. The second problem is the hardness of the heat affected zone. Granted, mild steel has little carbon in it, but even so, if it has been welded, cut with a torch, or chop sawed, the heat affected zone is quite often harder than the bulk of the material. I'd rather take a beating than turn a welded piece on a full sized lathe. I wouldn't even think of doing it on my Sherline. Orrin ------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:35:15 -0500 From: "Kevin P. Martin" Subject: RE: Turning welded materials That's a bit, but not substantially, stronger than mild steel, so the hardness should not be a problem. However, the rated strength of weld metal is likely its minimum (annealed) strength. If it was a small weld on a large object, the weld metal may have been quenched by the sheer bulk of the base metal, so the weld metal might be quite a bit harder (ever try filing weld spatter?). You might cure this by annealing the weld area (for how long? cooling how slowly? good questions!). Another concern might be flux inclusions in the weld which, being glassy and hard, might dull your cutter quickly. Of course, if it is a good weld, there will not be any flux inclusions! One other problem... Unless the weld heat is applied *very* evenly about the circumference, the shaft will end up with a bend at the weld. This is probably ok if the weld buildup goes all the way to the end of the shaft and is corrected when you turn it. Kevin Martin ------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:33:53 EST From: jratcli256x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Turning welded materials Mark, a trick I learned awhile back when cutting welded surfaces. Chamfer the cutting edge of your tool bit at about 45 degrees, so there is a flat (on a small tool bit) of about .032 wide. Use a substantial depth of cut and as heavy a feed as your equipment will handle. Rough the area down until you're below the rough area of the weld and then switch to your finishing tool bit to finish the job. When you think about it, you'd swear the bit wouldn't cut with that big a flat across the cutting edge, but you'll find, it will cut rough surfaces when a sharp bit won't even touch it. I've cut out welded valve seats from the steam chest of high temperature steam turbines using a similar tool bit. Good luck. John ------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:59:00 -0000 From: "oldisnew " Subject: Great fun! And some questions (new lathe user) Bought a Sherline lathe recently after reading about machining off and on for a year. Did my first-ever cutting last night, and I'm hooked! Now I just have to figure out how to organize everything to do this conveniently in my little apartment. And maybe reconsider framing that first, ugly little piece of T6 aluminum round rod I turned. I do have a few questions at this point that I hope someone can help me with. 1. The handwheels are harder to turn than I'd imagined. I haven't tried to adjust them, since everything seems to have come pre- adjusted from the factory, but I might have to clamp the shelf the lathe is mounted on to my work surface so it won't lift or move while I'm turning the handwheels. Is this the way it's supposed to be? Even turning them against no load? Backlash is about the .003 that the instructions say to expect. 2. It actually took me a little while to figure out how to get the cutting tool mounted properly (that is, which side was up). I think I was using it at an angle that was too close to perpendicular to the stock. The chips were coming off looking like very thin coiled springs made of tinsel. Anyway, while I was feeding the right-handed tool from right to left on a shallow cut (.010), at some point I heard the tool bite less and take a visibly shallower cut. Later, I noticed that the tip had actually curled up a bit, as if it had been dropped on a concrete floor and hit tip first. What caused that? And how do I take care of that problem without a grinder (or can I)? 3. At one point the tool began to squeak or squeal a little while I was feeding it. Was that a speed/feed issue, or is it normal? I haven't tried to deliberately cause chatter yet. Thanks for any help! John ------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:49:43 -0000 From: "lan_brooks " Subject: Re: Great fun! And some questions (new lathe user) Congratulations and have fun! > noticed that the tip had actually curled up a bit, as if it had been > dropped on a concrete floor and hit tip first. What caused that? I suspect the tip is just fine but that you have a bit of the material you are cutting has accumulated on it. I have this problem occasionally with aluminum. The material get "brazed" on due to heat and can be scraped off with a hard sharp tool such as a wood chisel. Brace the tip of the tool against an immovable object, like a hard block of wood then slide the removal tool along the surface where the build-up is and it should come off. next time you use the lathe tool, apply a drop of lubricant to the tip to prevent build-ups. I use tapping fluid for this purpose. You can search this archive for lubricants to find other suggestions. Otherwise it sound like you have a good start. Note that Aluminum will often produce the long stringy chips that you are making. Just do not try to remove them with the lathe running as they can be quite strong and sharp. BR, Lan ------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 22:05:52 -0000 From: "jimknighton1948" Subject: Re: Great fun! And some questions (new lathe user) Your description about the "hardness" of turning the handwheels sounds a bit odd to me. I know full well that "hard" is a relative term that actually conveys very little meaningful information, and what is "hard" for one person may seem to be "just right" to another. Regardless, the hand wheels on my lathe operate very smoothly and take very little effort to turn. The cross slide hand wheel is a bit "stiffer" than the one for the long axis, but in part that is personal preference. There is no "lifting" or "shifting" of the mounting base. There is a "just right" condition regarding the hand wheel movements that is very difficult to explain in words, but when experienced is patently obvious. The handwheel rotation should be smooth and easy to turn, but not "loose" or "sloppy." The "hardness" you are describing sounds suspiciously like the gibs are too tight. You might want to experiment a bit with these settings and try to find that "just right" setting for your lathe. For what it's worth, the gibs on my lathe needed adjustment right out of the box. I've also found that I need to adjust them periodically, and the "feel" of the handwheels is actually one of the first indications that this might be needed. It's not a big deal, however, and only takes a couple of minutes. Adjustment is very easy and explained very well in the manuals that came with your lathe. Don't be afraid to experiment with your new lathe. Just be gentle with it. It is very well made and it isn't likely that unless you drop it or use the BFH or "strong arm" approach to adjustments and/or "repair" you will do it any harm. Regards, JBK ------- Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:02:53 -0000 From: "oldisnew" Subject: Re: Great fun! And some questions (new lathe user)...Thanks! Thanks to those who've responded. I looked closely at the cutting tool last night and found that, indeed, some aluminum had become brazed to the tip, and an old wood chisel got it off very nicely. And I'll try adjusting the gibs tonight. Having read everything that I have, I did think that part of the reason why people who enjoy machining did so was the combination of mind and feel that's involved, and that smooth- turning handwheels would be both important to doing precision work and just plain nicer. I'm also happy that Sherline posted their TV ad on their web site, showing someone turning a handwheel pretty effortlessly, or my suspicion that something was wrong might not have been as strong. John ------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:47:53 +1100 From: "Mark & Deb Saccasan" Subject: Re: Old Sherline Lathe Model 1100 From: "mjsaccasan" > Attached to the tailstock is a jacobs chuck which I cannot > get it off. The chuck itself unscrews from the arbor only. > The arbor itself remains stuck in the tailstock spindle. Any > suggestions. Does the arbor slip off? I am missing something? Thanks for the replies. I have retracted it as far as it goes and will not come out. It seems to be jammed. I do not know if I should force it out. Any suggestions? Regards Mark ------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 04:36:58 -0800 (PST) From: rodger pease Subject: Re: Old Sherline Lathe Model 1100 Mark, if you can create a "jackscrew" bracket using the threaded part of the arbor as one part of the assembly and the body of the tailstock as the other, you might be able to break it loose. Be sure to spray WD40 (or something) around the arbor body to help "unstick" it. Pretty hard to explain in text, but you should be able to figure out something, depending on your mechanical aptitude. Maybe you could take a digital picture of the thing and put it in the photos section. Would give us a better understanding of what your dealing with. :-) Or (as a last resort) you could just put the drill chuck back on (after spraying the WD40 and letting it sit for a while to "work in") and "tap" it a little with a hammer. If that doesn't work, get a bigger hammer. That's what I do, but then...I break alot of things. :-) Regards Rodg ------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:21:22 +1100 From: "Mark & Deb Saccasan" Subject: Re: Old Sherline Lathe Model 1100 Hi all. Many thanks I finally managed to get it out. Sprayed plenty of WD40 and with some gentle persuasion by way of hammer and it finally popped out. Again thanks to all of you who gave me the suggestions. Regards Mark p.s. came out clean with no damage. Also, there was no rust around it which made me wonder why it was so difficult to dislodge. ------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:47:45 -0800 (PST) From: rodger pease Subject: Re: Old Sherline Lathe Model 1100 Whew...!... Mark, I'm certainly glad that worked OK without damage. I'd hate to think that the "hammer" suggestion I made caused any harm (it "was" obviously supposed to be a "last resort"). Not everyone has a "light touch" with a hammer (I sometimes don't) and while it is well made, the Sherline isn't the strongest unit in the world. Not that it can't take some licks, but it is a fairly precision piece and hammers and precision tools don't usually mix. Anyway, glad it worked. You might want to check the taper on the arbor against some of your other tailstock tools to see if there is any noticeable difference. Might also be a "burr" or small piece of material imbedded in the "receptacle" of the tailstock causing the problem? Regards, Rodger ------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:27:12 -0000 From: "Bryan Hassing" Subject: Chattering boring tool Hi: I have recently been machining model truck wheels from 6061-T6 aluminum. I am having some difficulty with chatter of the standard Sherline HSS boring tool held in the Sherline rocker tool post. I am machining flat-bottom bores between 0.396" and 0.449" depth and 0.828" diameter. I see chatter occurring at the junction of the final diameter and final bore depth (the shoulder if I'm using the term correctly). I have tried reducing the motor speed, but increasing the feed rate is difficult as I don't want to "overshoot" either the diameter or depth dimension. The tool appears sharp too. Since surface finish is important with these parts, I'd appreciate any advice on how to machine these parts without leaving chatter marks. ------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:29:26 -0500 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: Chattering boring tool Here are my suggestions for doing this: 1. Make sure that the boring tool only contacts the sidewall of the bored channel and not the bottom of the flat well that you are creating. Either grind it back so it has a sharper point, or tilt the toolholder to get the angle right. 2. Bore you hole slightly under the depth required by maybe 0.005" 3. Finish boring the diameter of the hole and then do a facing cut of the remaining depth (0.005") across the bottom of the well. I would do this with the same boring tool, so make sure you grind the tip properly for this facing pass. Of course, there are several ways to do this, and this is just how I would do it. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:46:58 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Chattering boring tool Hi Bryan: the advice Dan Statman gave you is all excellent advice. Here's a few more things you can try if that doesn't do it. 1) use the stubbiest cutter you can get away with...your cutter shouldn't stick out of the holder more than 1/2 inch for this particular job. 2) dump the rocker toolpost and go with a plain one. Mine is reamed to accept a 3/8" dia solid carbide or HSS round boring bar...far more rigid than those flimsy 1/4" HSS toolbits. 3) grind lots of side and end relief on the tool tip...you want as narrow a cutting edge as you can get away with and still get the finish you need. 4) grind the tool point dead sharp and then stone a tiny (0.005") radius on the tip with a medium India stone. Don't make it too big. 5) glob some Plasticene around the job and around the boring bar to dampen the vibration...it's messy but works very well on thinwall parts. 6) keep the job damp with lubricant...I prefer a product by Relton called "A9" Some or all of these tricks should do it for you. Hope this helps. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:25:53 -0600 From: Ken Grunke Subject: Re: Chattering boring tool Does your boring bit have enough clearance at it's front edge to avoid rubbing against the bottom of the bore? If chatter happens only at the end of the bore, that would likely be the case. Or possibly the tip of the tool has too large of a radius. Also, I would use hand instead of power feed, and a carriage stop to set the depth of the bore. Better control for such a shallow depth--and when you get to the final diameter, just clean up the bottom with a facing cut using the boring tool. Ken ------- Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 05:13:44 -0000 From: "forbes_rl" Subject: Problem with steady rest slipping I'm hoping someone can give me some advice on how to solve a problem with the brass "fingers" on the steady rest slipping. I'm trying to use the cut-off tool to cut the end off about 12" of 3/4" 6061 T65 aluminum rod. I calibrate the steady rest near the chuck, then slide it down to the free end. I tighten the screws _very_ tight and oil the stock where it bears on the steady rest; at this point the stock is held quite firmly (i.e. no play). I also use plenty of cutting oil on the cut-off tool and am using a fairly low speed (in an attempt to eliminate chatter). When I bring the cut-off tool into the stock the stock starts vibrating and this knocks the brass arms of the steady rest back so that the stock is no longer held tightly and things go rapidly downhill from there. Any suggestions on how to solve this? Rob ------- Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:01:44 -0000 From: "lan_brooks" Subject: Re: Problem with steady rest slipping Rob, I had the same problem myself and the culprit turned out to be the three washers under the 3 cap screws that are used to hold the three brass arms in place. To fix this, machined a set of 3/16" thick washers from some 1/2" round stock I had on hand. In my case if you could see that the washers were becoming "cupped" from the tightening force. Additionally, you may need to add longer cap screws. If I recall correctly, that I had modified the casting by drilling the hold down screws the rest of the way though and carefully tapping the holes to get more screw engagement without stripping. At least give the washer idea a try. Oh yeah, take the steady rest apart and clean with solvent before setting it up. You want all of the friction you can get between the brass parts and the casting. Once set and prior to use, lube the points of contact between the stock and the "fingers". Good luck, Lan ------- Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:11:42 -0500 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: Problem with steady rest slipping Rob: There can be several factors causing this. One thing to consider is the cutting tool you are using. Chuck a test piece of the same material but much shorter and do not use the steady-rest. Try to part off this test piece only about 0.1" from the jaws of the chuck. This will give you the most rigid set-up possible on your Sherline lathe. If you can easily part-off the material then your tool is not the culprit. If you really have to crank on the handwheel to part the material then your tool is not doing its job. Resharpen, reshape, or get a new parting blade. Once you get the tool cutting correctly then set-up with the steady-rest. And use the suggestions of Lan Brooks in his post. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 04:35:34 -0000 From: "forbes_rl" Subject: Re: Problem with steady rest slipping Dan and Lan: Thanks for your excellent suggestions. The washers on the steady rest were indeed dished; I replaced them with doubled washers and drilled and tapped on through the casting to support longer screws. That definitely helps. By trying the cut-off blade near the chuck I discovered that part of the problem is that the blade is grabbing even when I don't use the steady rest. I'm not sure if this is due to the chip getting jammed in the slot or because of the aluminum "hogging" the blade. Even with a relatively light feed things will go along fine for awhile then the blade will suddenly dig in enough to stall the motor. Rob ------- Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 01:44:43 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Problem with steady rest slipping forbes_rlx~xxyahoo.com writes: > the problem is that the blade is grabbing even when I don't use the > steady rest. I'm not sure if this is due to the chip getting jammed > in the slot or because of the aluminum "hogging" the blade. If you can grind a hollow in the top of the tool that will tend to make the chip fold in on itself. Other wise cut off in a step fashon, that is cut deep enough so it doesn't grab, then cut right next to the first cut and go again as far as you dare, then back to the first groove again. Remember that the surface is decreasing as the cut deepens. If you promise not to tell anyone sometimes I use a hack saw for the final cut. John in the high desert of California 12 inch Atlas Mini Mill Rusty file ------- Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:22:03 -0700 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Re: Problem with steady rest slipping Hi John: I ALWAYS use a saw. I figure that the surface needs to be remachined 99% of the time anyway, so I don't bother much with parting off. So there's no shame at all in your confession. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:28:13 -0000 From: "lan_brooks" Subject: Re: Problem with steady rest slipping > By trying the cut-off blade near the chuck I discovered that part of > the problem is that the blade is grabbing even when I don't use the > steady rest. I'm not sure if this is due to the chip getting jammed > in the slot or because of the aluminum "hogging" the blade. Even with > a relatively light feed things will go along fine for awhile then the > blade will suddenly dig in enough to stall the motor. You are making progress. During cutoff operations, you want to feed pretty hard and I usually also use a higher spindle speed. Back out of the cut just a little but, say a quarter turn, to allow the curled up chip to clear the groove you are making. Also, I usually hold a bottle of lube in one hand so that I can continuously apply a bit of lube to the groove. The chips that are formed by the cutoff tool tend to remove all of the lube from the groove that is being cut. One additional bit of advice, when parting off using the steady rest, I often use a center in the tail stock for additional support until I am near the break-through point, if the part has a hole in it, or until I am down below say a 1/4 stock left if the stock is solid. Then I move the tailstock out of the way. This increases the rigidity of the setup when the cut-off tool is farther out from the centerline of the part at which point the leverage is greatest. You want to get the tailstock out of the way so that it does not damage anything when the part comes loose. Good luck, Lan ------- Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:02:47 -0000 From: "jeastwoodlm" Subject: Re: Problem with steady rest slipping "Parting is such sweet sorrow." Sorry, couldn't resist the dumb joke. You might search the archives for "parting" to get some good general advice on setup and techniques. Make sure you are right at center height, and keep the overhang of the tool as short as possible. Lathe speed is pretty critical; slower is better, and keep up the pressure on the feed. It sounds and seems counterintuitive to feed MORE when things are chattering, shrieking and whining, but it generally helps. I tend to feed fairly hard, then back off, feed again, back off again, over and over. Lots of lube helps too. Parting is something that takes some practice to develop a feel for, and for the various materials you use. Also, be careful when using the parting tool to make a groove. The Sherline standard parting tool is .040" wide I believe; you can use it to make a groove of say .1" width, but you have to be careful how you do it. Gradually widening the groove by moving the saddle after the first groove is made won't work well unless you move it by MORE than .040"; moving it less will cause the tool to flex and jump into the existing groove. Good luck ------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:08:33 -0500 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: Re: Problem with steady rest slipping I'm surprised that the most common cause (at least for me) of binding of the cutoff tool has not been mentioned. That is not having the tool exactly perpendicular to the work. On thin rods it doesn't make too much of a difference, but with anything over a half inch or so, the tool will bind if it isn't exactly perpendicular. The reason is that the top edges sides of the tool (down the length of the tool) will try to start cutting. They are not really made for this and they protest mightily. As an extreme example imagine cocking the tool to a 10 or 15 degree angle and shoving it into the work. You will hear sounds that mankind is not meant to hear. Tom ------- NOTE TO THIS FILE: Also see the "Parting Off" text file for more parting tips. ------- Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:06:39 -0000 From: "jeastwoodlm" Subject: Re: Just got a 4400 - need some help getting started In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "lansoprazole" wrote: > After several weeks of careful research and thinking and finally > saying the heck with it, I am now the owner of a Sherline 4400 lathe > with the "A" accessory package, a steady rest, and a thread cutting > attachment (for a future project). I also got a Delta bench grinder > (new $30!) and a few HSS tool blanks. [SNIP] > And so I need a dial indicator. I have seen a bunch on Ebay > for a wide range of prices, and would like to know if any particular > brand is good and cheap. [SNIP] > Any other suggestions or links to "getting started" type of sites? Sounds like a good start; I also bought a grinder as my first accessory after getting my 4400. It's ture you CAN spend a lot of money on accessories, but you don't have to. Here's some suggestions: 1) I found that the three jaw chuck suppiled by Sherline didn't grip all that well; I had to get into the habit of stopping and tightening it every few minutes. So, I'd recommend a 4 jaw chuck for two reasons: the Sherline 4 jaw grips better, and with a 4 jaw it's much easier to make shapes such as cubes and rectangles from stock. Being able to make a cube from a rough sawn piece of stock will help make up for the lack of a milling machine. 2) If you don't want to go for buying the Sherline 4 jaw, you can make a beefier 3 jaw by getting a "plain back" 3 jaw chuck (look for the Bison brand on sale from Enco, MSC, Travers, et. al.) and mounting it to the Sherline faceplate that came with your lathe (maybe they don't call it a faceplate, but it's that gizmo that threads into the spindle, and the other side is milled flat with 3 mounting holes around the perimeter.) I mounted a 3" Bison 3 jaw and it works fine. 3) A lathe tool I use a lot and can be easily made is a parting tool holder. Basically just a cube of aluminum with a notch in the side that fits the parting tool, and hole down the center for the T-nut and clamping screw. It would be easier to make the notch with a mill, but you can drill closeley spaced holes to remove most of the material, then file to shape. Get some good files, they aren't expensive. 4) If you make the parting tool holder, next you can make it do double duty as a boring tool holder. The Sherline boring tools are HSS blanks shaped for boring, and work OK, but are too short for many applications. Most boring tools have 3/8" diameter shanks and come in various lengths. Drill a hole through your cutoof tool holder opposite from the notch for the cutoff tool, and drill and tap a hole to allow a screw to clamp the boring tool. Drill the 3/8" parallel to the bed of the lathe, and so that the tool's tip will be close to the center height (i.e., be vertically level with the axis of the spindle.) 5) If it didn't come with the A package, get the drill chuck so you can use it mounted in the tailstock for drilling. Then you'll need drills; I've found having size 1-60 and the letter sizes are very useful, along with the usual fractional sizes. A small selection of taps will also be useful: 1/4-20, 10-32, 8-32, 4-40. Most of the Sherline accessories can be duplicated or even improved upon. I made my own knurling tool that will knurl diameters much larger than Sherline's tool. If you ever decide to get the riser block to raise the spindle, allowing larger work to be turned, you can make your own riser blocks for your tool posts pretty easily. If you don't have a dial indicator and magnetic base, definitely get one. I use this every time I chuck up a piece to get it to turn true in the chuck. You'll want a dial caliper too for measuring dimensions to .001" accuracy. Perhaps that's enough advice for now. Have fun (I sure have!) ------- Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:42:59 -0000 From: "Flavio Roberto Varani Junior" Subject: Cut speed on 4400 I am interested in buy a lathe of sherline model 4400, have curiosity to know which the speed of cut in aluminium and steel, therefore never before I worked in a mini-lathe. Ex.: how much time would be needed to transform a bar of steel of 1"x 5" into 1/2" x 5"? ------- Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 01:48:17 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: Cut speed on 4400 Flavio, I don't mean to be flip or disrespectful, but this is a difficult question to answer - there are a lot of variables involved such as the alloy of the steel, the kind and sharpness of your cutting tool, etc. Other significant variables are operator oriented. For instance, will you be using CNC, a power feed motor, or turning the wheels by hand? This isn't the kind of cut I typically make, and I suspect that most others wouldn't do this except in a pinch. If I needed a 1/2" diameter part that long I would try to start with stock closer in size to the finished diameter. Regardless, with my 4400 lathe I routinely machine 1018 steel (both cold and hot rolled), annealed O1 tool steel, stainless steel (unknown allow), 6061 aluminun, 7075 aluminum, and brass. I work with very small sizes and also pieces that stretch the capabilities of the lathe. For instance, last night I was machining a couple of 12" parts from 1/2" O1 drill rod. I had more trouble getting the specific setup right than I did actually cutting the metal. I've turned pieces as large as 5 1/2" diameter (I have risers on my lathe). All of these metals have their own machining characteristics, but none present any particular difficulty. I've also successfully turned most of these metals with hand-held cutting tools, a process that is largely ignored by hobbyists except in jewelery and watchmaking circles. Once you make the plunge I suspect you will discover that cutting the metal is actually not very difficult. Depending on the complexity and nature of your projects I suspect you you'll find it more challenging to figure out how to make the cut you want on the odd sized and peculiarly shaped piece of metal you start with. At least, this has been my experience to date. You didn't give any indication of your experience level, but cutting speeds and length of time to machine a part are really two different issues. I don't like to push my machines to the limit of their capacity. This is a hobby activity, and my time has no value to anyone except me. I don't mind the time it takes to go slow and I make fewer mistakes when I'm not pushing myself or the machines. I make enough mistakes as it is. I determine appropriate cutting speeds and feed rates by look, feel, and ear. On the lathe I generally limit my cuts to about .005" in 1018 and O1 steel (that's radius, not diameter) and perhaps twice that in aluminum. The machine will make more aggressive cuts than that, but the speed metal is removed really isn't the issue as far as I'm concerned. I want a smooth and finely finished surface, and I don't want chatter. At any speed or feed rate if I get chatter I have to make adjustments, and avoiding chatter is the key issue. It eats up cutting tools real fast and leaves an ugly finish. I don't think the vibration is good for the machine, either. Good luck with your machining adventures. I fully understand the need and quest for knowledge. You might take a look at the Sherline web site - most of the info in their brochures, instruction sheets, etc. is available on line. I recall several instances in which questions about capacities, etc. are addressed. They might be helpful to you, but when I was doing my initial research I was frustrated by the vagueness and imprecision of the answers. After using these machines for a while (I've had my lathe between two and three years) I better understand why the answers are framed as they are. Using the lathe as an example, machining isn't an exact science. Maybe it is with the big machines in a production environment, but with our small scale equipment quite a bit is done by "feel," i.e., feedback and judgement in real time while the machines are running. How firmly to you tighten a fixture? What sounds are the machine making? What happens when you take a particularly heavy cut? Do I want to try it again? What does the surface look like? And so on. In order to learn to use these machines you have to use them. Experience is paramount, and the lessons learned soon become second nature. You really can't learn this stuff any other way, and that involves making mistakes. Fortunately, the machines are quite robust and forgiving. If you break something, replacement parts are readily available. I've made far more mistakes than I care to admit to and have had to replace a couple of parts myself. Nothing catastrophic, and no real damage done except to my pride. Regards, Jim Knighton ------- Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 04:18:38 -0000 From: "smitty8002000" Subject: Sherline collet questions Need a little info on the Sherline collets. Right now I am using the WW collets, and damaged my 1/4 collet through stupidity!! Anyhow, I like the fact that the WW collet has a shoulder on the inner diameter to limit how far the material goes into the collet, question is, do the Milling collets have the same shoulder? Any info would be great, Thanks Smitty ------- Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:42:13 -0400 From: RichD Subject: Re: Sherline collet questions Smitty, All the milling collets are straight thru. MT-1 external. However, the drawbar thread is internal which limits tool depth. I have drilled my drawbar to allow long 1/8" tools to pass. RichD ------- NOTE TO FILE: There are more extensive collet discussions in the text file "Cutters Collets and Arbors". Also, the "Atlas Collets" file may provide some ideas. ------- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:50:49 -0000 From: "yacub1953" Subject: Finding a small-tipped live center for a Sherline Lathe I'm new to this group. I've just gotten a Sherline long-bed lathe. For now, I plan on using it to turn really small objects - specifically, wooden beads that I make. To be able to tool all of the surface area of such a small piece of wood, I'd like to have some pretty small tips on my live- and dead-centers...no problem with the dead center; I've got a chuck on the headstock that'll hold a small one. But, I notice that the live center that Sherline offers is pretty big to provide tooling clearance on all sides of such a small piece of wood.Does anybody know of a live center that would fit the Sherline lathe that comes with an extended tip no wider than around 1/8" or so? Or, does anybody know about a 'chucking live center,' a live center/chuck combo, that would fit the Sherline? I know that such things exist, but haaven't beenable to run one down. Thanks for your time. Sincerely, Jamie Wahl ------- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:21:13 -0700 From: "Marcus and Eva" Subject: Re: Finding a small-tipped live center for a Sherline Lathe Hi Jamie: My solution to exactly the same problem was to just turn down the diameter of the Live center until I was happy with it. I seem to recall that it wasn't hardened and could be turned easily with High Speed Steel. Make up a left hand tool, chuck up a bar in the 3 jaw chuck, poke in a small center drill and get your live center in the tailstock. Get the point of the live center into the center drilled hole under lots of tension and turn on the machine. The pressure of the center in the hole will provide enough friction to keep it rotating and allow you to turn it down if you take light cuts. Takes about 15 minutes to do. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:28:43 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Finding a small-tipped live center for a Sherline Lathe Jamie, the center on the Sherline live center can be removed by driving it out through a hole in the shank. From that point you can machine whatever point you wish and install in place of the original. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:37:20 -0500 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: Power Feed Review >Anyone have the power feed, and care to report on how they like it? Hi Bill: It's okay. It sure beats turning long cuts by hand. I wouldn't give it up. It runs quietly, and is easy to set up and use. Having said that, it's only fair to mention a few downsides and improvements I'd like see made. It runs at only a single speed. Different materials and diameters cut best at different feed rates. It runs only in a single direction. I like to have a fast reverse. Or any kind of reverse for that matter. It must be removed if one sets up for threading. My motor becomes extremely hot after 15-20 minutes of use. (That may be just my particular motor and may not be the norm) I'd like to see some kind of method to turn off/disengage the feed when the cross-slide gets near the chuck. I'd like to see it come with a power cord that replaces the lathe power cord so both motors can run from the same supply. Outlets are at a premium in my shop. I spliced the power feed cord into the lathe power cord and permanently mounted a switch on the lathe mounting board. It works fine, but it looks klutzy. All in all, I'd rather have one than not have one, but I think there's definitely room for improvement. These are just my opinions and please take them as such. I am sure other folks, more knowledgeable than I can (and hopefully will) speak to this matter. Thanks, Tom Nance Corpus Christi, TX (Just dodged a bullet from Claudette) ------- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:39:08 -0400 From: "Jason Richards" Subject: Re: Power Feed Review I bought one with my lathe as well, and must confess that I rarely use it. I often alternate between threading and cutting operations and it is just too much of a pain in the posterior to swap it around. (Pulling the motor off 3 times in an hour tests my patience as it is.) I think I remember someone talking about adapting the power feed to run off of the handwheel side, which would be nice, particularly if you could construct a linkage attached to the cross slide that would disconnect the drive junction before it hits the chuck as another mentioned. Jason ------- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:52:36 -0400 From: "Marshall Pharoah" Subject: RE: Power Feed Review I was going to buy one, but bought a Frog instead. This does both power feed and threading. In fact, I have a brand new threading attachment from Sherline still in the box that I ordered before I saw the Frog. The price of the Frog has gone up to $199 since, but it's worth it. I don't recall the price of the threading attachment and power feed, but together they're probably in the same neighborhood. Marshall ------- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:00:08 -0400 From: "Marshall Pharoah" Subject: RE: Power Feed Review Jim, a couple of years ago I was planning on buying the Sherline power feed. Then I saw the Frog at Cabin Fever and ordered one almost immediately when I got home. Before I did, I considered building a bracket to hold a stepper motor much like the Frog does, but using a pulley/belt drive connection. I figured I could get one of the cheap stepper drivers from Jameco or another hobby shop. These allow variable speed drive by turning a knob, and would also allow control of the direction. I figured the pricing of this to be about the same as Sherline's drive box. The second option was the Frog (then about $175). This gives variable feed, rapid reed, and threading, and even allows you to mark a start point and stop point for repetitious cuts. Third option was to go with full-blown CNC. I figured at the time at least $500 without the computer. I also figured a much longer learning curve. This will probably happen someday. I'm doing the mill now. But for now the Frog does everything I need, and I did consider connecting the Frog to that as well. Marshall ------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:53:35 EDT From: davidmrootx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Frog Stepper Motor Cable Length Be sure to install a heat sink on the back of the Frog as instructed or the Frog will overheat and die. I built a bracket to mount the keypad near the location of the power feed and this has worked well. David ------- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 03:06:39 -0000 From: "tauscnc" Subject: Quick Change Toolpost I got a quick change toolpost for the Sherline lathe and it's awesome!!! The part finish and fit is incredible. It's so nice to just "snap" in the cutting tool and keep going. It might be something you considered but never got. The mroe I use it the nicer it is. Its one of those "how did I live without it items :):) Check it out at my site: http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/lathe.htm or at theirs http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rmteo/_wsn/page2.html Hope everyone is well tauseef www.cuttingedgecnc.com ------- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:07:09 -0000 From: "yupak12" Subject: Removal of Tool from Tailstock I've been using a live center, in the lathe tailstock, for a long time. Now I want to remove it, and insert the Jacob's chuck. How, do I remove the live center? Its seems to be seated tightly. Bill ------- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:19:20 -0400 From: "JERRY G" Subject: Re: Removal of Tool from Tailstock Bill, Just turn the tailstock in a counterclockwise direction. Towards the front of the lathe. You will encounter some resistance. Don't be afraid of turning hard. Inside the tailstock is a stop. As you draw the sleeve back, the end of the live center will touch the stop. a little pressure and it should eject. When you put your Jacobs chuck in, wipe the tapered shank to make sure it is clean. Then retract the jaws and give the front of the chuck a couple of light taps with a soft mallet to seat the taper. Regards, Jerry G ------- Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:15:46 -0400 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: How do I align head- and tailstock if their heights don't match? From: "yacub1953" > I have noticed that the headstock and tailstock of my Sherline lathe > are not at the same height. When I put dead- and live-centers on the > lathe and bring their points together, there appears to be as much as > a couple millimeters of difference in height between them. I notice > this when I am end-drilling wooden bead blanks. I have the > cylindrical blanks held in a three-jaw chuck on the headstock, and my > drill bit held in a tailstock drill chuck. I notice that when I begin > drilling into the blank, which I have pre-drilled in its center, the > drill bit is NOT aligned with the center hole - it is lower. As I > move the drill bit to the left, it will finally 'bump up' and into > the pre-drilled hole and end up drilling a hole that runs, more or > less, through the middle of the blank. But I'd like a closer > tolerance than this. I notice that Sherline offers accessories that > it touts as solving this problem - #1207, the adjustable live center, > and #1202, the adjustable chuck arbor for the tailstock. Do any of > you have experience with these accessories? DO they do the job? Also, > I notice that #1202 features a threaded male end for attaching to (I > assume) the tailstock chuck. Which tailstock chuck is this supposed > to work with? As far as I can tell, none of them have threads, male > or female, but rather simple Morse tapers. What am I missing here? > Thanks a million for your time. Regards, Jamie The adjustable tailstock will fix your problem. That is why they made it available. On the Jacobs chucks the morse taper ends unscrew from the chuck body. This is where the male threads will fit on the adjustable arbor. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:06:18 -0400 From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: How do I align head- and tailstock if their heights don't match? There are four adjustable tailstock options, the live center, the chuck holder, the tool holder and the die holder. I have the first two, although I mostly use the live center. They work well, but they require a little setup to get the accuracy you want. The #1202 adjustable tailstock chuck holder is intended for use with some of the Jacobs drill chucks Sherline sells, the ones with the threaded hole, not the tapered hole. Those drill chucks come with a 3/8x24 to Morse #0 arbor which can be unscrewed from the chuck to expose the threads. The adjustable tailstock holder can then be screwed into it, rammed into the tailstock, and adjusted for centering. Mysterious physics aside, when using a tailstock chuck on a lathe, the drill will find center instead of wandering from it. You can use this on the Sherline when super accuracy isn't required, and just let the setup pull in the slop for you. I wouldn't recommend this for small drill bits, but it works ok for me with bits larger than maybe 1/16". Some of this might have to do with how far off 'natural' center your lathe is when you perform these operations. Jim Ash ------- Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:24:01 -0700 From: "David" Subject: Re: How do I align head- and tailstock if their heights don't match? Jamie: I'm going to disagree with the other posts (at least today's) on this question. I'm against the adjustable tailstock tools. But first, you need to determine what is out of alignment: (1) is the headstock by any chance tilted up (or down) around its center point (the locking screw buried in the middle of it)? Mine was, by quite a bit. Anything can cause it: a bit of swarf, a ding (which always raises material around its edges), a rough place on the key seat, a rough place on the key itself, etc. (2) is the tailstock tilted down? or up? (same potential causes as above) (3) is the headstock or the tailstock twisted away (or towards) the operator? (4) is the shaft of the tailstock, as it extends toward the headstock, excessively loose? (5) If you are using riser blocks, you multiply the possibilities for error by four. (6) If you are using the old-style tailstock (the one that tightens with a single screw, about halfway up, by squeezing an open area together under the screw to clasp the dovetails of the ways), by all means discard it and purchase the new-style tailstock with gibs. It is a far superior design. With any of these circumstances, you will not be able to turn a true cylinder, it will always be a taper. When I finally found an engineer I could ask some questions of, he drew me a rough diagram of what the geometric relations between the centerline of the headstock, the centerline of the tailstock, the parallels of the ways, the cross-slide screw, and the motion of the cross-slide should be but almost never are. Everything should be absolutely parallel, in all planes, except the motion of the cross-slide, which should be at exactly 90 degrees to the ways. In addition, the centerlines of the headstock and the tailstock must be not only parallel, but contiguous (the same line). If any of these conditions are not met, you will always, as I say, turn a taper, not a true cylinder. Now the question arises: to what tolerances-and every machine has tolerances-do I expect my machine to operate? Each of us will have to answer that question in regard to their own work. For my own work, if I can see (without magnifiers, guages, etc.) that something is out of alignment, the tolerance is too great. Your steps you need to take are simple to state, but rather difficult to implement. First you have to find out what is out of alignment and in what direction; then you take steps to correct the problem. As I said, "Duh!" In my own case, the headstock was twisted away from the operator rather badly, using the riser block with both keys inserted and locked down. With the help of a local machinist (who made me a guage bar) and some ingenuity of my own to design an adjustment device, I reduced the TIR at six inches from the headstock from .0045 to .00025. Both measurements were made the six-inch length of the guage bar while it was turning between centers. The .00025 is close enough for my work. If you do the trig, the .0045 error works out to quite a bit when, for example, you're boring a cylinder held on the cross-slide. You could expect equal discrepancies at the tailstock end when holding a drill in a chuck. If you are interested in how I went about doing all this, please contact me OTB and I'll do my best to help. After all this, you should be able to see that the adjustable tailstock tools do nothing to correct the problem, only to accommodate it: you'll still be turning tapers, because the workpiece is not parallel to the ways. I hope I've been of help. I know how frustrated I've been for all this time. I'm still trying to figure out how to accommodate error introduced by chucks and collets. In addition to all this, don't rule out contacting Sherline and explaining your problem. Ask for Craig and be as detailed as you can. He's good people (they all are), and he'll nearly always be of help. Sincerely, Dave Wood ------- Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:19:07 -0000 From: "tresark" Subject: Lathe Backlash I received my 4400 lathe this week, had the 5400 mill for a couple years. Looking through the doc's and checking the history here at the user group list. I can't determine if there is a backlash adjustment for the long axis of the lathe. Z axis? I have nearly one full rotation of the handwheel before backlash is taken up, is this normal? Something like 48 thousands of backlash. Thanks, Doug ------- Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:17:21 -0400 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: Lathe Backlash Since the leadscrew has a pitch of 0.050" you cannot have 0.048" of backlash due to the leadscrew. Most likely you have your handwheel adjusted improperly. Loosen the set screw that holds the handwheel to the leadscrew. Then push on the cross slide table towards the right and hold it in that position as you slide the handwheel on the leadscrew all of the way to the left. It is easier to do this with an extra person, but it can be done by yourself. While holding everything tightly in position then tighten the setscrew on a previously unused portion of the leadscrew post. If you are close to the old spot it will walk into that divot and leave you where you started. Other than that there is no adjustment except to buy a new leadscrew and saddle nut. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:51:04 -0000 From: "tresark" Subject: Re: Lathe Backlash I agree that 48 thousands of backlash is a lot, mostly the reason I asked about it. And as for adjusting the handwheels, its a CNC machine. It has handwheels on it, and I as I turn them I can feel the motor cogging so I know it isn't the handwheel. Putting a DTI on the carriage shows .046 inch of movement, I need to find a mirror so I can look at the screw and carriage nut, I'm not unbolting from the table unless I have no other choice. Doug ------- Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:00:42 -0400 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: Re: Lathe Backlash See if you can physically move the entire leadscrew from side to side, if so then it is the same adjustment that I described earlier. When you have a manual lathe, the handwheel prevents the leadscrew from moving side to side, when you have a CNC conversion then the motor coupling must prevent this, and obviously the handwheel will not have an effect since the motor shaft does not slide. There must be something loose somewhere, since it is physically impossible to have that much slop on a 20 TPI leadscrew. Is this an old machine with hundreds of hours of use? If both the leadscrew and the saddle nut are well worn (extremely well worn) then you could approach this level of thread related backlash, but I really do not think this is your problem. If you grab the cross-slid and move it back and forth through the backlash, does the entire leadscrew move with it? If so, then it is loose. If not, then it is worn out. Those are really the only two choices for this system. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 02:27:24 -0000 From: "tresark" Subject: Re: Lathe Backlash (found problem) Well I dug up a small dental mirror, and found the problem. Oh, just so you know, the lathe is new. Probably should have said that sooner, as worn wasn't a consideration. I followed the assembly instructions provided. Well I had bought the 5400 new as well, and when I adjusted the backlash for it, there wasn't an adjust for Z. In looking at the lathe I figured there wasn't one for it either. But the mill Z only has about 0.005 of backlash. Anyway, long story short, the saddle nut screw wasn't tighted up. The saddle wouldn't move till the saddle nut had moved far enough to bind the locking screw and begin moving the saddle. The documents don't mention any adjustment for this except for binding on the leadscrew which it wasn't doing. And the movement was consistent at .046, it wasn't increasing so it wasn't coming loose, it just wasn't tight. Well after adjusting and tighting it down, the backlash is a more respectable .003 inch. Another learning experience, I like this stuff :) Thanks for the help and suggestions. ------- Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:18:03 -0700 From: "David" Subject: Re: Sherline cutt off tool part number You can get precisely the same thing [cut-off tool] from Enco. Their part number 397-7503 is $11.80. Catalog page 284, or search for the part number at www.use-enco.com. They also have an imported one (397-7403 for $9.65); but I haven't used it and can't vouch for it. Dave Wood ------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:31:28 -0000 From: "forbes_rl" Subject: How can I minimize the play in the cross-slide? I would like to reduce the amount of play in my lathe's cross-slide so I can do more accurate boring. The boring bar itself is very stiff, but I notice that when I push on the end of the boring bar the cross-slide itself rotates a bit and causes about .008 deflection at the end of the boring bar. I've done the obvious thing and tightened the gib to the point where the slide becomes difficult to move. However, the play remains. I'm wondering if the gib itself is compressible, or perhaps does not perfectly match the ways due to its one-way taper. Does anyone know what the minimum amount of play one can expect is, and if there are any alternate gib arrangements that might offer more rigidity? Rob ------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:23:41 -0400 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: How can I minimize the play in the cross-slide? Depending on the amount of use your machine has, it is most likely the leadscrew and the brass nut that it feeds into that have worn. The gib is not compressing and should be loosened to get smoother action without wobble of the cross-slide. You can unscrew the leadscrew all of the way and remove the table from the slide and look at the screw to see if it is worn. The brass nut has a set screw that holds it in place and then just pops out of a counter-bored recess. I think the cost of nut and screw is about $20 and it is simple to replace if worn. If it is not worn then your handwheel might not be tightened fully against the cross-slide and this can cause excessive backlash as well. You should be able to get less than 0.003" of backlash. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:22:28 -0000 From: "mileagemayvary" Subject: Re: How can I minimize the play in the cross-slide? There is a really neat idea of using a star nut as per the mill's antibacklash, shown near the bottom of Tauseef's site page at: http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/lathe.htm ------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:24:52 EDT From: joeb759x~xxaol.com Subject: Work Holding On Lathe I need to turn down an alum. round 35" in OD Of course the sherline lathe chucks won't hold this diameter. this will be used as a flywheel on a small hot air engine. Any practical suggestions as to how I can hold the round to turn it down? I do have riser blocks for the lathe and mill. ------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:27:03 -0500 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: Work Holding On Lathe I will assume that you meant to say 3 point 5 inches, right? The flywheel will probably have a hole to accept an axle. Drill the hole first and then make a mandrell that the flywheel can sit snuggly on, and then away you go. Tom Nance ------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:31:26 -0700 From: "Brown, Mark A (SPO)" Subject: RE: Work Holding On Lathe 35"????? If you mean 3.5" one of the things I've done is turn it sideways on the rotary table using the mill. Mark A. Brown www.zora-arkus.com ------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:45:19 -0700 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Work Holding On Lathe Hi Joe: Assuming you mean 3.5", I'd use the faceplate, and drill and tap 3 holes in it. Then drill 3 holes in the blank to correspond with the tapped holes. These holes (or make 6) can be worked into your flywheel design. Screws can then be used to secure the blank to the faceplate for turning. Alternately, the blank can be drilled for its shaft, and then worked on a mandrel. The riser blocks will get you up above the ways. Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:19:11 -0600 From: "Al Lenz" Subject: RE: Information on drill bits [MAKE CLOCK PIVOTS ON LATHE] > PS: I've been using the Sherline lathe to make my clock arbor blanks > and then switching back to the jeweler's lathe to do the pivots, > especially the polishing etc. sounds strange but it saves time. I > use the water tempered stock out the MSC catalogue, it polishes well. Rick, at the 2002 NAMES I mentioned to Jerry Kieffer that as an ex-watchmaker I did essentially what you described, that is use the Sherline for most everything but still fell back on the watchmakers lathe for finish turning of small pivots, etc which require a sense of touch for that last 'half hundredth of a m/m'. He promptly sat me down at his Sherline and had me cut a perfect pivot in about one minute flat. The secret is to leave the pivot diameter large, maybe same size as the arbor, then make a series of short cuts at the end just deep enough to get a mic on. When you get to the desired dia. then cut the entire pivot length in one full cut. Worked like a charm. Just thought I had to pass it along. Al Lenz P.S. And then I saw some of Jerry's projects, all made on a Sherline. There were tiny threaded fasteners that were so small that a broken clock pivot would have been plenty for the bar stock. I kid you not. Even though most of us will never attain Jerry's level of expertise, it does show what can be done with a Sherline in the right hands. al ------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:20:42 -0000 From: "danpines" Subject: use lathe as screw machine I was really fed up with not being able to find 10-32 bolts in Israel. Needless to say threaded rod is also not to be found in this size. Decided to use the lathe as a screw machine, using a die holder and a 10-32 adjustable die. First time around I held a blank rod in the headstock 3 jaw chuck and held the die holder by gloved hand. Switched on at low speed, used a lot of cutting fluid (as there is no easy way to make back turns occasionally) and it worked like a charm. I adjusted the die for a shallow cut just in case.. Second time around i tightened the die and did it differently. Held the die holder in the 3 jaw chuck, inserted and locked rod, locked other end of rod in the tailstock chuck and of course did not lock the tailstock. Switched on and stood back admiring the screw machine as it pulled the rod and tailstock towards the headstock while threading. The only setback is threading the threaded rod back out. used a small rechargeable drill which turns both ways to do it. All in all, I had my threaded rod in a few minutes. I do not know whether it will work as smoothly for larger stock say 3/8". See photo in photo section dan pines ------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:37:57 -0500 From: "JERRY G" Subject: Re: use lathe as screw machine Dan, If you can use metric nuts and bolts, go to 5 MM and stop working so hard........:) Regards, Jerry G P.S. 5 MM is .1968" "Close enough for Jazz" ------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:50:53 -0000 From: "danpines" Subject: Re: use lathe as screw machine jerry: i use metric (available here) for anything which does have to be attached to the sherline lathe. i needed long 10-32 fasteners for riser blocks i made for the lathe, to fit the t-nuts. dan ------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:57:47 -0500 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: Re: use lathe as screw machine It may have been easier to make metric thread T-nuts with a hand-tap. They do not need to be square, they can have a round shoulder that catches the underside of the slot. But obviously, your method works also. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:07:23 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: use lathe as screw machine If you turned down a bit at the end (say about a 1" length) that was smaller than the minor diameter, then you wouldn't have to reverse anything, just unchuck it from the tailstock and pull it through the die. You can also reqire your controller to allow reverse: http://www.sherline.com/reverse.htm Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:48:32 +0100 From: Geert De Pecker Subject: Re: Re: use lathe as screw machine Jerry, Dan, I have the same problem finding american threaded bolts in Belgium. When I did order something from sherline, I asked them to throw some bolts in the box and received different lengths from them. So, if you still have to order something... Geert ------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:30:52 -0000 From: "Flosi Gudmundsson" Subject: Re: use lathe as screw machine Geert,Dan, I have had this problem for about 3 years and it is not much of a problem anymore. As Jerry mentioned 10-32 bolt are very close to 5mm. 5mm hex bolt fits 10-32 T-nut of the shortest kind. If you need extra T-nuts make them from 10mm square CRS. It's quite easy if you have a 4-jaw chuck. You have to file them somewhat to fit on the lathe, but not on the mill, as it does seem to have wider T-slots, at least on my machines. Here in Iceland, which is a secluded island in the Northern Atlantic Ocean, 5mm "Inner Hex Nuts" as they are refered to at the three places where I can buy them, are SO inexpesive by the hundreds, that's just ridiculous to use anything else. My next step in metrification will be to bore out the angle table and put in 5mm inserts. No, this is not religious for me, I just live on a secluded island. The moral is: Don't go over the brook to fetch water. (An ancient european proverb.) Flosi in Iceland ------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:02:25 -0000 From: "mileagemayvary" Subject: Re: use lathe as screw machine > It may have been easier to make metric thread T-nuts with a hand-tap. > They do not need to be square, they can have a round shoulder that > catches the underside of the slot. But obviously, your method > works also. A round nut reduces the clamping area with a risk of damaging the slot. Those square T nuts have a natural tendency to swivel when you try to slide them in the slot. They turn so that they present the bigger non fitting triangular section to the slot. This has driven me mad over the years particularly with the 4 used on the compound slide to where I would not use it from the absolute frustration of trying to get 4 square T nuts to behave. I have to load it from the "far" end as I have a DRO on the handwheel. I have made some better T nuts and tool post nuts. Based on the normal type square nuts but the base is oblong, the longer side is 16mm long. I tried rounding the ends. Unexpectedly this was just as frustrating as the square nut It would swivel and jam. Then I modified it to a hyperbola shape (like a bullet). These are a joy to use. Would have them for sale but first ones (tool posts) took 1 1/2 hours each, but worth it. ------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 02:05:30 -0600 From: "Al Lenz" Subject: RE: Re: use lathe as screw machine > absolute frustration of trying to get 4 square T nuts to behave. Boy, am I glad you brought this up. I have fought those square t-nuts just as you described. Had thought about making them round to ease the insertion into the slots, but as you mentioned that would decrease the load-bearing surface. So thanks for two things: One, glad to know that I am not alone in getting exasperated trying to get those darn things lined up and, Two, for providing a solution. Al(yourmileagemayvaryalso)Lenz ------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:56:07 -0000 From: "danpines" Subject: Re: turning t-nuts (was use lathe as screw machine) having suffered just like you and many others from the turning t-nuts i tried another way which works just fine: - remove screws and t-nuts from compound slide (or tooling plate or any similar item) - slide the t-nuts only in the slots - hold the compound next to the slot and adjust spacing of t-nuts to more or less fit location of holes in compound base (no need to use an indicator..) - lift compound and place it down so that t-nuts fit holes. if any t-nut not precisely in place, i use the small allen key to nudge it into place, through the hole in the compound. It really takes less time to do it than to describe it. After a couple of times, the placing of t-nuts is almost always correct. i hope you find that useful. dan Israel ------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:06:03 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: T-nuts - was: use lathe as screw machine Not that I have any experience with round t-nuts, but I would think that you might occasionally have trouble tighening them up (Since the T-nuts will rotate in the T-slot). I would think that if you started out using a diameter which matches the diagonal of the square t-nuts, and then milled off two sides (to the same width as the original square T-nut), that you'd have a t-nut that was still easy to insert, but would have more bearing surface than a pure round one, and wouldn't rotate in the slot. Another interesting T-nut design to consider is the quarter turn T-nut. Basically you make a square t-nut which is the width of the slot, and then round off two diagonal corners. This design has very little bearing surface, but has the distinction that it can be inserted between two already placed T-nuts. I've uploaded a small PDF with a top view: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/files/Quarter-Turn-T-nut.pdf I've noticed on my lathe, that with the CNC coupler installed on the cross slide, I can't put T-nuts in from the front. The coupler blocks about 1/4 - 1/2 of the width of the T-slot. One of these days, I'll get brave enough to take the cross slide over to my mill and machine a little groove into the coupler to allow T-nuts to be inserted from the front, or add a T-slot that goes across the cross-slide. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:05:10 -0800 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: RE: Re: use lathe as screw machine I make mine boat-shaped. Put the "pointy end" in the slot and the rest has no choice but to follow. Dave Goodfellow Lancaster, CA http://www.davegoodfellow.com/ ------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:23:42 -0600 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: T-nuts - was: use lathe as screw machine There have been some very interesting ideas posted about how to manage those pesky T-nuts. Here are a couple of more that you might find amusing. How about taking a 4 inch piece of 1/4" x 1/2" aluminum and mill two notches in the 1/4" face. The notches would be the width of the T-nut and they would be half as deep. They would also be spaced apart the same width as the table slots. It would then be a simple matter to keep the T-nuts loosely screwed onto the tool that you are trying to load and slip the T-nuts into the slots in the bar. Then holding the bar onto the base of the tool slip the tool onto the table. The T-nuts would be perfectly aligned to feed into the slots and would not twist out of position. The problem with the T-nuts as many have said is that they tend to twist out of position when they are presented to the table slots. So how about simply screwing a 1/2" square bar to the end of the table in such a way that the top of the bar is at or below the top of the table and that the square end of the bar is exactly at the edge of the lower, wider portion of the T-slot. Now to insert a T-nut one simply presses the nut against the face of the bar which aligns and keeps the the nut square to the slot. It should then just be a matter of getting the right height and the nut will slip right into the slot. On the lathe, I am constantly changing tools. I need left- and right- hand bits, roughing and finishing tools, and of course, the cutoff tool. I have my own method of "quick change" tool posts. All of these bits are mounted on different tool posts and fooling with their T-nuts as they slip on and off the table is a royal pain. So now to change from one to another I simply unscrew the tool post completely and lift it and its screw off the long T-nut. The tool post that I am changing to already has its screw hanging in the top hole, so I simply drop it over the T-nut and tighten it down. No muss, no fuss. Tom Nance Corpus Christi, TX ------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:25:54 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Re: use lathe as screw machine Guys! It's not that hard! Slide the required T-nuts into the slots by themselves. Using 1" long screws, through a hole at a time, thread the screws into the T-nuts. Settle the plate of the device onto the T-nuts. It should be easy now, as there are screws to guide them in. After the plate is settled flat on the ways (the T-nuts will be held captive by the plate), remove the screws, and replace with the appropriate length. Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:28:39 -0500 From: "JERRY G" Subject: Re: T-nuts...... Russ, and whoever, Here is my secret tip on controlling those nasty t-nuts. Just put some toolmakers cement on the t-nut where the sides contact the slot. Toolmakers cement is a very thick grease like cosmoline... :) Regards, Jerry G ------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:58:40 EST From: Holyelvisx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Re: Lathe axis locks? I have noticed some movement when I was turning a head for an airplane engine I am making (cutting the fins). I use a cut-off tool to make the fins and they kept coming up different thicknesses and this was driving me nuts. The variance in size was due to movement in the long axis. I fixed the problem by engaging the engagement lever from my thread cutting attachment after the part was moved into place. When one fin was finished I would then disengage the lever and move the cutting tool and re-engage the lever. This produced excellent results and I made the cut about 10 times with +- .003 variance. I don't know if this is a dumb way to do this or not, I just know it worked for me and the part looks fantastic. Devin p.s. My lathe was brand new out of the box when I made these cuts, the old one got caught in a fire. Maybe the gib is not adjusted correctly, I am not sure. ------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:41:55 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: Lathe axis locks? I don't use the lathe as a mill, and I still find axis locks to be very helpful - and, yes, my lathe has them. If you are interested look in the photos section for a folder under my name. Look specifically for the sub-folder 4400 lathe mods. Jim Knighton ------- Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:00:31 -0000 From: "lan_brooks" Subject: Re: axis lock on lath On occasion, I find an axis lock on the cross slide handy and use a small C clamp to hold the cross slide to the carraige. A gentle clamping is all that is needed. For the long azis I haven't needed one to date so do not have any suggestions, although, with a the power drive you could run it up to the desired position and turn off the motor. This would provide more accurate control than using the engagement lever by itself. BR, Lan Brooks ------- Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:10:12 -0000 From: "Mark Vaughan" Subject: Center drill "jumps" When I center drill from the lathe tailstock, I get a consistent "jump." I start the center drill slowly and as it starts to bite into the spinning rod the bit jumps in the same fashion every time. As you face the end of the rod looking over down tailstock the drill jumps to the 2 o'clock position (as described in a clock face). I always thought center drills were self centering. I have changed center drills with the same results. What is the problem? Perhaps the factory Jacobs chuck is out of spec, or the tailstock is off kilter, or finally the headstock is out of line. Any ideas, please? A person suggested buying the Sherline part 1202 self-centering chuck arbor. The piece costs $45.00. Is there an inexpensive fix, or should I order the part? Any other ideas or suggestions? Mark Vaughan ------- Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:33:47 -0500 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: Center drill "jumps" Your headstock and tailstock are probably not aligned correctly and the center drill is "jumping" to the true center of rotation. Do you have the new style tailstock, I believe it is adjustable just for this reason. A quick (and not terribly accurate) way to check headstock and tailstock alignment is to place the MT-1 dead center in the headstock and the MT-0 dead (or live) center in the tailstock. Move the tailstock up towards the headstock and lock it in place. Then feed the tailstock so that the centers just touch. Are they aligned? If not, then that is your problem. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:51:53 -0000 From: "jeastwoodlm" Subject: Re: Center drill "jumps" I'll add to Daniel's method with the centers: rather than check alignment by eye of the tips of the two centers, put a thin, flat piece of metal, such as a 6" scale, between the two centers and gently bring them together. The way the scale twists and tilts will give you a good indication of how things are offset. ------- Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:48:27 EST From: Cmcvclockx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Center drill "jumps" What is the problem? Perhaps the factory Jacobs chuck is out of spec, or the tailstock is off kilter, or finally the headstock is out of line Most likely you are out of line in one of the areas you mentioned. I've found the same problem when trying to accurately drill a small hole on mine and have solved it by using a graver to start my hole and then using the appropriate size drill bit in a pin vise. It is a bit of a learning curve to use the graver to start without getting a pip, but once you have learned how, it is sure a lot quicker and more accurate. Chris The Clock Meister Sherline Tool Distributor Chris McVetty, 1000 East Main Street, Murfreesboro TN 37130 (615) 895-8788 ------- From: "tauscnc" Date: Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:34 pm Subject: Re: Lathe backlash adjustment? "dqrwagoner" wrote: > Bryan, > Some time ago, someone (I think it was Tauseef???) suggested > adding the "star nut" adjustment like is on the mill. I just added > it by taking off the cross slide, enlarging the existing hole on the > back of the table, drilling and tapping a screw to hold > the "pointer" that holds the star nut in place. I had about .003- > .004 slop before. I now have just over .001. This mod is easy to do > and gave me an excuse to clean and re-grease the parts. I am > currently trying to figure out a similar mod for the lead screw. > Best Regards Dave Wagoner Hey guys! Just ran across this. Hope everyone is doing well. I have some mods for the sherline lathe and mill, including backlash comp. Here is the link: http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/lathe.htm Lots of other CNC stuff on there too as well as other mods for cnc rotary table etc. Hope any of it helps. take care tauseef www.cuttingedgecnc.com ------- Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:44:04 -0000 From: "Louis C" Subject: Sherline alignment I'd like to thank Dave Wood for his alignment procedures. It is very easy and a necessity when using one motor/spindle assy. for both the lathe and mill. Finding the rod to use as an alignment tool took me a while until I realized that my old Harley Davidson 4 speed counter shaft was perfect (at least for my smaller bed.) It is just a little over 6.5" and with a dia. of .75". This shaft was center ground and was next to perfect in straightness and roundness. I found that I don't have a problem at all with my vertical alignment, but checking horizontal needs to be done every time I change the tool. This is very quick and easy now. I have also made up a simple block that attaches to the cross slide that holds an DTI right on center, no need for the Mag Base. Simple, Quick and repetitive actuate, can't ask for much better. Thanks to all for the advice and help found in these groups. Louis ------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT) From: BRADFORD CHAUCER Subject: Re: long tapers > Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:17:18 -0000 > From: "Lee Owens" > Subject: ?s about Sherline's Compound Slide > I want to order one of these. The main application will be > turning aluminum barrels for model tanks/artillery. Can it be used > for a long piece turned between centers? Thanks, Lee As several people have noted, the compound is too short a travel to be useful. Some have referenced Sherline's suggested method of Headstock offset, however this has several disadvantages. First as noted you then have to reset the headstock and realign it when you are done. More importantly this is a highly indirect, by guess and by gosh method. That is because, when turning between centers with the headstock rotated off true, you are shifting the headstock center out, but by an unpredictable amount. The angle marks on the base of the headstock will be worthless. You will have to mount a dial indicator, calculate the offset you will need for the particular length of the workpiece, and then slowly rotate the headstock till you get the desired offset, and hope it works out. There are two easier methods. 1. Use the adjustable tail center to offset the tail end of the work in a manner analagous to directly offsetting the tail stock. 2 Hand turn the taper using a "T" rest and graver. Make a "T" rest that is at least as long as the workpiece (you can do shorter and shift it). Then straight turn your workpiece to the maximum diameter and at one end turn a short step to the tapered diameter. Now use a graver to smooth out the length between the two diameters. With a little practice you will find that the hand and eye allow for quite accurate work. I have made a number of barrels for HMS Hood kits and a number of masters for Civil War period guns by off hand turning. WR Smith has a web site wherein he describes the process and Sherline sells a Smith designed T rest (though it is only about an inch long. He also has a great video on graver turning. It really does work and remarkable results are possible. The overall process is somewhat akin to wood turning. Once you have tried it, you will find yourself resorting to graver turning in many instances. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ------- Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:27:35 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Tailstock loosening Scott, the thumb screw on the tailstock will lock the ram in place for normal machining but is a little weak under heavy loads. The 10- 24 thumb wheel thread only has four threads in the tailstock, so stripping it out is a possibility if over tightening on a regular basis as I found out. A few years ago I had this same problem on a special project. My solution was to install two belleville disc springs between the hand wheel and the tailstock. With this I was able to apply enough resistance to the hand wheel to prevent it from turning when the load was set. (Only minimal resistance is needed.) It was still free enough to adjust the ram as normal. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:28:43 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Tailstock loosening > How did you load the Belleville washers? In line, back to back or face > to face? Regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) Jerry, large surface against the tailstock and the other large surface against the hand wheel. The thumb nut to lock the ram was also used along with the washers. I only did this once for a special project and it worked well for me. If it was to be used long term you would probably want to undercut the hand wheel for original appearance. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:29:19 -0500 From: "Jim Rickenbacker\(3\)" Subject: Re: Tailstock loosening I also had a problem with the tailstock spindle loosening. I found the rubber grommet was sticking to both the thumbscrew and the tailstock thereby putting a torque on the thumbscrew that tended to loosen it. Cleaning the grommet of the sticky grease cured the problem. If that doesn't work, a thin metal washer (shim stock) between the grommet and the thumbscrew should do the trick. Jim Rickenbacker ------- Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:10:53 -0000 From: "notinsync10" Subject: Re: Rotary Table on Lathe? --- In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "Eric Stilan" wrote: > Does anyone know if you can use the rotary table on the lathe and > what are the problems if there are any? Eric Because of the weight it's not really recommended. But, if you're careful it can be done for light work. I used mine that way for years. You mount it to the cross slide just the same as you'd mount it on a milling table. However, just make sure to maintain a uniform load by locating the rotary table in the center of the cross slide which should not be moved more than 1/2" on either side of the spindle's centerline. Another thing, don't torque it down too tight or you'll distort the cross slide and damage the screw. HTH. JB ------- Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:23:20 -0500 From: "Shorty Leatherwood" Subject: Re: Sherline Lathe Power Feed Before I bit the bullet and upgraded to CNC I wore out one of these power feed units on my lathe. The unit works very well and produces a great finish on most material. Since the feed is a set speed you will have to adjust your depth of cut and speed to obtain the finish you desire. Depending on how you mount this feed unit to your table will determine how easy it is to remove. The motor just slips over the end of the adapter that will come with it. I actually never had mine bolted down and it works fine. When I needed to remove it just slide it out of the way and go. The engage and disengage works really smooth. It is way better than turning the handwheels, of course CNC is even better. Now the bad news. At least on my unit, and a lot that I have heard people talk about, is that the motor gets very hot while in use and I had to keep a fan blowing on mine to keep it cool. It will get so hot that it will melt the plastic case surrounding it. They may have improved this and a call to sherline would be your best bet to verify this. I am not aware of a straight feed motor substitute. However if you think you may go CNC at some point you may want to check out the FROG single axis controller. From what I hear it is good for all kinds of things. It will let you control the axis just about the same as cnc would, IE changing speeds, moving to specific locations, and I am not sure but I think you can even do threading with this. [See NOTE below - yes it threads.] Shorty Http://webpages.charter.net/leatherwoodplayground ------- NOTE TO FILE: The new home for the Frog is http://www.avatartools.com and it does do threading on the Sherline and Taig lathes, along with a lot of other things for rotary tables, etc. Other comments on the Frog can be seen at Nick Carter's Taig site: www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html By late 2005 the Frog may be out of new production. ------- Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 07:13:35 -0000 From: "dan pines" Subject: Re: Sherline Lathe Power Feed I use the sherline engage disengage system but with a small dc gear motor, 30 rpm at 12v. (Was about 20$.) As it is a dc motor it can be reversed and the speed can be changed by changing the supply voltage. The results are very good. It is especially helpful for me when i use the milling column on the lathe. The motor i use does not seem to heat up at all. In any case, the reversing option is a godsend. regards dan pines sherline distributer, israel ------- Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:46:31 -0800 From: Alan Marconett Subject: Re: Sherline Lathe Power Feed CNC is the way to go! If you can get an inexpensive stepper, a single axis driver, and have a PC available, you can do the same thing as the Frog. Not that I don't like the Frog, but the driver (and stepper) you choose should be big enough to run CNC. You don't even have to start with the PC! Just wire up a 555 timer, a pot and a reversing switch, and you have a variable speed drive. You can graduate to more control with a PC and TurboCNC. Add a second (and third for mill) stepper, and you are ready for CNC. I started out just wanting "power feed" for the 17" carriage on the Sherline lathe, and CNC profiles are icing on the cake! Schematic for 555 on the SherlineCNC list. Alan KM6VV ------- NOTE TO FILE: CNC may be "the way to go" for some some, and CNC is just as "not the way to go" for folks who appreciate manually operated machines (as well as manually operated windows and door locks on their cars so that they can actually be opened in the winter). CNC specific messages are now almost clogging machine-specific groups where the vast majority of users still have manual machines. The CNC oriented Q&A really belong in the dozens of CNC help groups, where just about any CNC question has been answered many, many times before. Go to the Sherline home page www.sherline.com and look up your CNC needs in their help files or forums. There is also a group called sherlinecnc at Yahoo. More links in the CNC General file here. ------- Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:10:01 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: why isn't threading done this way? > I've been using the threading attachment with some success, > but I find selecting and changing the gears a bit of a pain. > I've had a few occasions of gears popping loose and having > to loosen and resync the toolbit before restarting. Alan. Threading gear changes and Gear box`s are of course personal preferences. You will find that accuraccy and absolute control will be far more important when doing the short large Dia. fine threads for Optics than speed. I would suspect you are not properly tighting the screws on the Sherline threading attachment. I have never had this problem even when cutting things as large as 24 pitch Worm Gear Worms. For anyone who might not be aware the Sherline gear assembly can be assembled in the front and fine threads can be cut under power if desired. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:47:41 -0800 From: "Gregg Swanson" Subject: RE: Re: why isn't threading done this way? Jerry, I may be extra dense today... but I don't understand this - "For anyone who might not be aware the Sherline gear assembly can be assembled in the front and fine threads can be cut under power if desired." Gregg ------- Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:57:08 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: why isn't threading done this way? Gregg: You're not dense, I am a poor communicator. First I should say that this arrangement is most practical for long fine threads where you are not coming up against a shoulder. (1) Leave the motor in place as normal (2) Install the fine toothed drive gear on the spindle minus the threading handle. The gear can be held in place with a tight fitting "O" ring or a locking collar. (3) Assemble the gear train assembly with the proper gears as normal. Next install it as normal, only in front of the drive gear rather than behind it. (The only way it will fit with the motor installed.) (4) At this point the motor can drive the threading train as a typical large lathe gear box system. I would suggest a reverse switch be installed to return the threading tool each time a pass is made. (Per Sherline instuctions) Jerry Kieffer ------- NOTE TO FILE: You have probably noticed that new entries in the Sherline various files slowed to a trickle during 2005. Reasons include: (1) many topics are being rehashed for the umpteenth time, and have already been answered in the group or in files here; (2) while I believe that most buyers are acquiring manual machines, they already have or find good information about their machines and their operation, and thus rarely need to ask questions to the group; (3) the minority of new buyers are opting for the far more expensive and complicated CNC versions that have a great many variations of hardware and software, that are being constantly revised and outdated; consequently they ask almost all the questions to the group; (4) not surprisingly, the manual machine owners like myself have to wade through tons of irrelevant computer/electronic gobbledygook and find very little new information of value to us; (5) so when I need more machining information, that is not specific to the Sherline brand, I also look in other groups and keep the information in more generic machining files for everyone's benefit. While I appreciate the existence of CNC and utility of computers (having been a software programmer in one prior life), in my hobbies I just prefer the hands-on feel of manually operated machines and hand filing and the swish of a century-old wood plane taking a translucent shaving off a walnut board. Some pleasures just don't get any better than that. ------- From: Dave Hylands Date: Sat Feb 4, 2006 1:41 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] Sherline Threading Attachment Mod and Questions Hi Bob, > I did Dave's mod and finally installed the 3100 today. I even cut my > first thread with it - instead of Sherline's 1/4-28 test, I did a > 1/4-20, since I have a ton of hardware around to compare it to. Even > came out okay. > I have some problems, and I thought I'd ask here because maybe more > than just I could benefit from the answers. I don't know if these > problems are because of the mod and having the attachment attached in > a position it wasn't designed for, or they're common problems with the > 3100 threading kit. > First off, the last gear (on the lead screw) kept popping out of > engagement. No matter how tight I made the screw holding the two > sides of the threading attachment together (usually a sign something's > wrong), the gears on the secondary arm kept popping out of engagement. I've run into this as well. I thought it was caused by my steppers adding additional force on the leadscrew. I think that I'd disengage the belts for the spindle so that you're not trying to drive the spindle as well. You should be able to move the belt so that it's going at an angle through the smallest pulley on each side. > Second, I started out with the headstock riser in place, since I need > to thread some parts that are just under 2" in diameter. I couldn't > get the two 100 tooth gears to mesh reliably in this position at all. Tip 11 on Sherline's site talks about using the threading attachment with the riser blocks in place. Basically you replace the two 100 tooth gears with 150 tooth gears. http://www.sherline.com/tip11.htm Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- From: "Chuck Johnston" Date: Sat Feb 4, 2006 2:10 pm Subject: Thread cutting Attachment P/N 3100 Any thoughts or comments on the Sherline Lathe Thread cutting attachment? I am thinking of buying one and I have a extra headset so it looks like it would be a simple swap out to cut threads on my lathe. Is the accuracy there on this unit? Any problems with it? Thanks Chuck Johnston -------- From: "n2562001" Date: Sat Feb 4, 2006 8:24 pm Subject: Re: Thread cutting Attachment P/N 3100 Chuck: The Threading attachment is as accurate as the lathe since the attachment simply drives the lathe. The drive gears are made of aluminum and are not susceptible to warping and other problems associated with plastic gears typically supplied with this size lathe. Of course the Gear train needs to be properly assembled per the instructions. The leadscrew nut and Lathe carriage gib needs to also be adjusted for smooth free operation. If tightly fitted the gear train will not operate smoothly. If fitted too loose, the gears will push away from each other under load. (No matter how tight the screws are.) However if properly assembled the system is very sturdy and durable. In fact I use the system to publicly demonstrate cutting 32 pitch steel worm gear worms during gear cutting seminars without ever a problem. This is quite remarkable for this size machine since cutting a steel worm probably produces at least twice the stress as cutting any thread listed. I have done this on several different machines with this attachment since I sometimes borrow equipment when out of town. I only mention this to show that the system strength is not particular to my attachment. With the addition of an extra stock 127 tooth gear and a 25 tooth pinion I have cut functional accurate threads up through 400 tpi. US and metric threads are achieved through gearing each having the same performance. With the low initial cost of about $110.00 I am not sure it's worth the risk/possible hassle of a used unit unless inspected in person. Jerry Kieffer ------- From: "Richard Altenhofen" Date: Sun Feb 5, 2006 9:41 am Subject: Cutting spirals Anyone out there have any experience cutting a spiral on their Sherline? What I have in mind is 1 to 4 turns in a 6 inch length on a 1/4" dia rod. I am thinking of fixing a Dremel-type cutting tool to the tool post and using a flat-face cutter for a flat surface or maybe even curved surface with a pointed cutter. I am confident I can attach a cutting tool to the toolpost, but linking the movement of the toolpost to the rotation of the chuck is where I need help. I don't think the threading attachment sold by Sherline will work, but maybe changing some of the gears? Perhaps its best to do this on a mill? Thanks for your help! Richard in AZ ------- From: "Shorty Leatherwood" Date: Sun Feb 5, 2006 10:47 am Subject: Re: [sherline] Cutting spirals Richard, I am assuming by your post that you do not have CNC capabilities. I have done this but only with cnc. If no CNC then the lathe would be the next best choice. However in order to get the spiral you desire it would require about a 1TPI and I don't believe that is going to be possible on the sherline equipment with the existing thread cutting attach. To do this on the mill you would need to have a rotary table or indexing attachment and make some creative coupling of the X axis handwheel and the rotary/indexer. Short of that I cannot think of a way to help. Shorty ------- From: "n2562001" Date: Sun Feb 5, 2006 3:58 pm Subject: Re: Cutting spirals Richard: If you are comfortable with a Dremel setup on the tool post the Sherline threading attachment can handle 3-4 turns over 6" with minor modification. The gear setup would be as follows for four turns per 6" travel of the carriage. Gear "D" = 30 tooth 24 pitch Gear "E" = 40 tooth 24 pitch Gear "C" = 20 tooth 24 pitch Gear "B" = 50 tooth 56 pitch Gear "A" = 100 tooth 56 pitch SEE ** NOTE BELOW FOR CORRECTION TO THIS MESSAGE! However an extra 100 tooth 56 pitch gear with a 20 tooth 56 pitch pinion gear must be installed between gear "A" and Gear "B". An extra 100 tooth 56 pitch gear can be purchased from Sherline. This extra gear can be supported with an extra Secondary support arm (P/N 3103 also available from Sherline. It is mounted opposite the standard secondary support arm on the primary support arm with a longer screw and nut. Tooth shape of the 56 pitch gears is such that a 20 tooth pinion gear can be cut with a threading tool used as a single point cutter. The single point cutter must be ground to 30 degrees instead of the standard 60 degrees. A slight flat can be ground on the end to produce a flat bottom tooth to match the 100 tooth 56 pitch teeth of the Sherline gears. Also with this arrangement the standard hand drive handle will not be used. Since the carriage lead screw will need to make 30 revolutions for each 1.5" travel (Four turns per 6" travel) the carriage leadscrew hand wheel will be used to drive the system. Of course you may want to use your own design, however this one would only require the construction of one 20 tooth 56 pitch pinion gear. I can tell you that it works since I use it in reverse gear assembly for up to 400 tpi threads. Jerry Kieffer ** CORRECTION: In a later message Jerry wrote: Richard: After rereading my last post I noticed that I made an error on my suggested gear train. A 20 tooth pinion gear should be added to the 40 tooth gear at position "E". The 20 tooth pinion is used to drive position "C" that should be changed to an extra 40 tooth gear available from Sherline. Or you could use a supplied 38 tooth gear and adjust the ratio between positions "D" and "E" if it will work out for your needs. Sorry for the error. Jerry Kieffer ------- From: "Richard Altenhofen" Date: Mon Feb 6, 2006 3:26 pm Subject: Re: Cutting spirals Thank you for taking the time to generate such a detailed response! Guess I better go out and buy a threadcutting attachment. Richard in AZ ------- From: Tom Bank Date: Tue Feb 7, 2006 4:08 pm Subject: Re: Cutting spirals Jerry K, I apologize for being dense, and I wouldn't expose myself as such, but the subject is one that is of real interest to me. My problem is that I have trouble identifying the path of the gear drive train you are describing. Could you update and repeat your chart with a format like: Gear "D" = 30 tooth 24 pitch drives Gear "E" = 40 tooth 24 pitch + 20 tooth 24 pitch drives Gear "C" = 20 tooth 24 pitch + 40 tooth 24 pitch drives Gear "B" = 50 tooth 56 pitch drives 20 tooth 56 pitch - + - 100 tooth 56 pitch drives Gear "A" = 100 tooth 56 pitch Also, you use the term 20 tooth pinion gear. I have an idea what a pinion in a clock is, although I think I don't really understand the significance of the name, but I know I'm not sure how you are using the term. Do you mean a driving gear? And a 20 tooth 56 pitch gear (in your first message) is going to have an awfully small diameter. Did I miss something? (I think I must have.) Finally, when I checked my threading set I found that I have two 20 tooth 24 pitch gears and two 100 tooth 56 pitch gears, one of the latter having a cutout for the driving screw head and the other without. Do I need more gears from Sherline than this or do I have more gears than the standard set already? I deeply appreciate your sharing your knowledge on this subject with the rest of us and I hope my questions and your answers will be useful to others. Regards, Tom Bank ------- From: "n2562001" Date: Tue Feb 7, 2006 6:01 pm Subject: Re: Cutting spirals Tom: Actually if you don`t understand, I should be the one considered dense for not explaining it clearly. I always call a small drive gear attached to another larger gear a pinion gear. However it can also be called a drive gear as you have indicated. Your gear arrangement is close but not quite what I had posted along with the one correction I made. I rechecked my suggested arrangement and it appears to be as I intended with the one correction in a seperate post. I will respond to your off line message with a flow drawing to show that it works out to a 30-1 drive train from the carriage leadscrew to the spindle. The gear pair ratio`s work out as follows. 1.5 X 2.0 X 2.0 X 5.0 = 30. 30 turns of the leadscrew equals 1.5" of carriage travel and one turn of the spindle with this gear train. The 20 tooth 56 pitch pinion (Drive) gear will have a outside diameter of about .400". Its size is easily machined on Sherline size equipment. Jerry Kieffer ------- From: Tom Bank Date: Wed Feb 8, 2006 10:04 am Subject: Re: Cutting Spirals Jerry, OK, now I get it. Wow! Now I have to clean off my work bench so I can get started. What I want to make is spiral part so that a thumb and finger wheel can adjust the extension of an assembly; sort of an external focusing mechanism. It also helps to see how you compute the combined effect of the developing gear train. Many thanks for your assistance. Tom Bank ------- Re: fearles newbie learns fear Posted by: "Jim Ash" ashcanx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Jul 3, 2006 12:03 pm (PDT) Daniel - Without seeing your setup, I'm guessing a bit here. If you could send us a quick picture of your setup it might help. First, you need to know that the Sherline 3-jaw chuck doesn't have the greatest holding power. I really put a good lean on it when tightening mine to get it to hold, but I prefer the 4-jaw instead. Also understand that if your work is not exactly centered (with respect to how you have it supported on the tailstock end, which should be parallel to the bed for this job), it will wobble in the chuck for every revolution, and it's amazing how fast this can loosen a piece. I'm an old-school guy, and although lots of people do it (and I admittedly do it in a pinch), it's generally considered bad form to support a piece in a chuck on one end and with a center on the other. This type of work should be supported between two centers and driven with a dog, if the job will allow it. You say the end was rough cut. Did you center drill your piece to accommodate the center in the tailstock? With this kind of work, I'll support a piece in the chuck on one end (which violates my above rule) and with the steady rest (if it's too big to put inside the spindle shaft) on the other, optionally face it if need be, and center drill it. When you use a center, you should always have a hole to support it. You need a set of center drills if you don't already have one; this is not optional equipment if you're going to turn using a center. You should also consider a live center for the tailstock, if you don't have one. Sherline's adjustable live center is nice; the adjustment is to be able to get it centered properly. Tool height is very important here. If you look at a cross-section of the action and the tool is too high, when the tool touches the work, the tool with get pushed into the work. This will force the tool down and back (instead of just down). This puts a tremendous amount of force on the work, tool, and all the stuff holding the two into each other. Not good. Big not good. This is a great way to make stuff fly around the room in thrilling and unexpected directions. If your tool is too low, the work will push it away. This is not as disastrous, but it can make a mess of the piece. Get your tool height right. One of the common ways to do this is to move things around so the position of the point of the tool is right next to the tip of your center (before you mount your work piece). Unless you're into it, the angles you have ground into the tool can make a difference (assuming you're grinding your own tools, but let's keep things simple for this discussion. You can read about these. Safety first. Get a set of safety glasses if you don't already have them; don't touch your machine without them. Get ones with good side protection; those little bits of metal can fly everywhere sometimes. Keep your hands away from the chuck and the work when it's moving. Have a quick and easy way to shut the machine off. And work out some kind of system so your tommy bars are never in your chuck when you start up the lathe. Let us know how it works out. Jim Ash ------- fearles newbie learns fear [sherline] Posted by: "xorxerox" xorxeroxx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jul 3, 2006 7:37 am (PDT) So in Tabletop Machining Joe Martin says something about not understanding chatter until you've seen a part ripped from a 3 jaw chuck. I can now say I absolutely understand chatter. I am a complete newbie, always been fascinated with the idea of cutting metal and making my own creations. I finally decided to just go for it, and am now the lucky owner of a 4400. I followed the instructions and assembled everything that needed to be, mounted the lathe on a piece of shelving as suggested in the manual complete with rubber/felt feet. Chucked up the only piece of metal I had lying around (about 6" length of 1" diameter 2024 aluminum), put the RH cutting tool into the rocker tool post that came with my lathe, set the height of the tool by aligning it to a center I had in the tailstock, set the cross slide (think thats the name) for a cut about .01", turned on the lathe (wow, this thing works!), set speed about half, proceeded to wheel the tool towards end of the work, and... WHOA! immediate deflection occurs, machine shakes something awful, aluminium is ripped halfway out of chuck (which I believe was tightened pretty well), and is now flopping around, barely missing smacking into the rest of the lathe..hit power, check all limbs and fingers (check!), and consider... * The end of the aluminum was cut with a cut off saw, and is not perfectly flat or even. Would facing it first help? Can I do that with the tools that come in the B package? * Could I be holding the tool wrong? I had the printing ("1/2 x 2 1/2 R") facing up, based on a few pictures I've scrutinized I now think it should be rotated 90 degrees towards the headstock. I am also unsure of the rotation of the toolpost - should it be at 90 degrees to the spindle for this sort of operation? * Maybe the work is too long? (but then why have a 17" lathe?) * Maybe I just don't yet have the right combination of speed and feed? My next plan is to try to find some smaller piece to try with, but I thought aluminum in the size I tried was within the capabilities of the machine. I clearly have a lot to learn. Hope this isn't an overwhelming amount of information to be asking for. Any help or suggestions at getting a successful cut would be much appreciated. thanks, daniel ------- Re: fearles newbie learns fear Posted by: "Eric" buckeyevsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jul 3, 2006 8:19 am (PDT) You say you aligned the cutting tool to a dead center in the tail stock. Did you use the dead center for supporting the tailstock end of the piece? The way to do this is to center drill a hole for the dead center to enter. A piece that long will need to be supported at both ends. Actually, any stock over two times the diameter in length should be supported by the tail stock. It will increase precision by decreasing deflection, and make for a safe setup (as you have already experienced the outcome of an inadequate setup). The cutting edge would be at the top edge of the tool when oriented correctly. I doubt you set this up wrong. Eric ------- Re: fearles newbie learns fear Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jul 3, 2006 9:15 am (PDT) Hi Daniel: The gemeral rule of thumb for machining unsupported stock, is that it should project no more than twice its diameter. For working with a piece six inches long, you really need to use a steady rest. I have some pictures here that show the proper setup: http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Modifications/Threading-Han dle-Extension/ Once you've got the piece center drilled and can use the center in the tailstock, then you no longer need the steady. > * The end of the aluminum was cut with a cut off saw, and is not > perfectly flat or even. Would facing it first help? Can I do that > with the tools that come in the B package? You definitely need to center drill. I always face it first, but you might be able to center drill without facing first. It will depend on the exact properies of the surface. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Re: fearles newbie learns fear Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Tue Jul 4, 2006 7:15 pm (PDT) Daniel: I agree with everything that has been said in regard to center drilling/ Tailstock support etc. When it comes to three jaw chucks the typical formula of a length of no more than twice the diameter may or may not work. The maximum diameter that a Sherline three jaw chuck can securely hold work pieces with the full gripping length of the jaws is .750". In other words when you look at your chuck jaws you will see that the jaw gripping surface extends inside the chuck center hole that is .750". Larger stock such as your 1.000" Aluminum cannot enter that area so it is held by only about half of the jaw gripping (length) surface. In effect this is like holding something by the tips of your fingers and is not very stable. Under these conditions the length of twice the diameter will be very unstable and easily ripped from the jaws. Most of this type work will need to be supported by the tailstock/steady rest unless it is very short. On the other hand a work piece of .750" held by the full length of the jaw gripping surface may be very stable at a greater length than twice the diameter. In a sense this is like grabbing something with your whole hand. It is always more stable to support work like this with a steady rest or Tailstock but in those cases where it is not practical it is the most stable way of doing it. In these cases I silver solder or mount a .750" shaft to the work piece for the purposes of machining a part with maximum holding strength in a chuck. They are then removed after the part has been machined. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: fearles newbie learns fear Posted by: "xorxerox" xorxeroxx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Jul 5, 2006 8:00 am (PDT) First, a big thank you to everyone that responded. As a neophyte I did not realize the importance of setup in general and the nuances involved in safely holding different sized pieces of work. I do have safety glasses and keep them draped over the switchbox of the lathe to make sure I always wear them. I hope I don't wear out my welcome around here by asking way too many basic questions. I have made a few more attempts at cutting, both with my 1" diameter 6" long rod and additionally with an approximately 7/8" diameter 3" long rod, with varying degrees of success. I have mainly tried to get any sort of chatter free cut. I haven't actually managed to center drill and turn between centers yet, because all of my facing attempts have met with ultimate faliure and I figure I should master that first. I have been using the steady rest, and setting it up as described in the sherline documentation. It makes a noticable difference in all cases. Once I got adept at setting up the steady rest, the problem I had changed from one of the work being ripped out of the chuck to one of the tool digging into the work and the motor siezing. I have become accustomed to keeping one hand on the power switch while attempting a cut so I can cut the power as quick as possbile when this happens. This was always on facing attempts. I am only trying to take off between .010" and .020" inches in each of these attempts. Sometimes I'd get a cut to complete, but the surface would be awful, clearly not flat, and ringed/ridged like the cross section of an old tree. Could it be possible that I damaged my tool already, and this is causing this? I have some remaining questions about tool holding, usage, and angle. I am using the diagram on Page 101 of Tabletop Machining, the first page of chapter 9. It shows both normal turning and facing operations. The normal turning is what I expect, it looks like a right handed tool angled as I would expect. However, the facing example looks like a left handed tool being moved front to back with the crossslide. Is this what I should be using, as shown, or am I just misinterpreting the diagram? Is this the same as using a right handed tool and moving the crossslide from back to front? I will say I believe I have the tool height set correctly, and do not think this is my problem. It now seems almost impossible for me to get anything to run true in my lathe - I fear I may have bent or broken something. Is it possible that either my multiple work-ripped-out-of-chuck incidents or motor siezing incidents have 1) bent/warped the work or 2) damaged the chuck? I can clearly see that the corner of one of the chuck jaws is ever so slightly rounded. Lastly, thanks everyone for all the information on the chuck. I find it surprising that none of this is mentioned in Sherline's chuck documentation. No rule of thumb of what length/diameter ratio's can be held unsupported, no mention of the 3/4" hole through the center and its importance to having work held securely, if it hadn't been mentioned here I would not have realized. Someone mentioned that the 4-jaw chuck is more stable. I am planning to mostly work on pieces that are between 3/4" and 1" in diameter, from around 2 - 4 inches long. Can you suggest a suitable 4 jaw chuck from the ones sherline offers? I was thinking maybe the smaller self centering one, but don't really know. Also, RUST. Parts of my lathe began to rust literally 3 days after being unpacked. Usually looking suspicously like my fingertips, to remind me it's my fault. HELP! I have been since trying to keep it coated with WD40 since I noticed. What can I do to best prevent this? If WD40 is not apprpropriate, please suggest a specific product I can use. I am also thinking I should be working with tight fitting rubber gloves so as to mitigate my apparently toxic sweat; not sure if this is considered a safety bad or not. Last, can anyone suggest a book that goes into more specifics of work holding and setups than is done in Tabletop Machining and the sherline instructions? Ideally, something that deals with sherline specifics. Thanks. I will take a picture of my setup next time I attempt a cut, but for now, I am trying to learn some more in hopes of attaining a small amount of success. Once again, thanks to everyone for the help. daniel ------- Re: fearles newbie learns fear Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Jul 5, 2006 12:28 pm (PDT) Danial: First let me say I doubt you have damaged your lathe or chuck. If this were easy to do I would have destroyed mine years ago. The accuracy of the Sherline chuck is directly proportional to how clean everything is. I would first remove it from the spindle and clean the spindle thread with one of those fine tooth brush size wire brushes. Next wipe the thread clean and blow off the thread with compressed air. Then do the same thing with the chuck thread. Next open the chuck about three quarters of the way open. Then spray it good with a cleaner such as Brake Cleaner and dry with compressed air. Lightly oil all areas, install on the spindle and it should return to its original accuracy. When someone suggested a four jaw chuck I think they were suggesting an independent four jaw chuck. This chuck will supply greater pressure through the jaws since each jaw has a threaded stud and for tightening and each is adjusted independently. However since your stock is greater than .750" it will be little better since you will still be gripping short on the chuck jaws. Your steady rest should be set up as follows. First install your .875" X 3.000" (Or whatever) stock in your chuck. Next rotate the chuck by hand and lightly tap the end of the stock with a hammer in whatever direction needed until it runs true. Then position the steady rest as close to the chuck as possible and adjust the bottom two supports until they touch the stock. Next relocate the steady rest out to within .250" of the end of the stock (Or as close as possible) and adjust the top support until it touches the workpiece. Then lubricate the steady rest supports and you are ready to face off your work piece. At this point retighten your three jaw chuck. In order to simplify lathe tool problems until you are familiar with turning I would suggest the use of the Sherline three piece brazed carbide tool bit set (P/N 3006). The same USA made Carboloy tools can be purchased a little cheaper through any machine supply house however this is a little easier. These three tools can be used with any material to make anything you will wish to make on a Sherline lathe. They or any other lathe tool will only work if it is set up properly. First install about a 1/8" piece of stock in your chuck about a 1/2" long and take a light cut full length. Then while it is turning about half speed, take a file and file a sharp point on the end. Next locate the tip of your tool while mounted in the tool post close to the sharp point. Under magnification the tip of the tool should be at the same height as the sharp point but NEVER ABOVE it. If it is not you will need to file the bottom of the tool or add shims as needed. Until this is done to each tool you are using nothing will turn out right. Store all tools and shims together to save time the next time needed. You will now be ready to face off your work piece. Set the lathe at about 1/4 speed. Next use the AR-4 brazed tool set at an slight angle so that only the tip will cut the face. (Same as the picture on page 101.) Take very light cuts of less than .005" until you are cutting the full circumference of the work piece. Once you are cutting full circumference, you can take deeper cuts since the tool won`t dig in when entering the metal from the no-contact area and lock up the spindle. WD-40 works well to prevent rust for short periods (less than a few days) however for long periods I use spray grease. Many brands work but my personal preference is "Justice Brothers" as supplied to Automotive Shops. It's very easy to remove and stays put for very long periods. I would not use rubber gloves for safety reasons but you may want to rub a few drops of motor oil in your hands before working on your tools. As a beginner much can be learned from books however there is no substitute for about 200 hours of practice. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: fearles newbie learns fear Posted by: "mileagemayvary" gizmomakerx~xxbigpond.com Date: Thu Jul 6, 2006 2:34 am (PDT) Daniel: Do you have some smaller sized metal rod? You might get a better feel for the action (and less fear) to start off if you can get some stock that is smaller diam and shorter so that it can go back inside the spindle with not much sticking out from the chuck, say about an inch, and does not need to be supported. Go to a hardware store and buy a couple of bolts about 3/8" diameter and not all thread. Cut off the heads and threads with a hacksaw. Use this smaller piece of metal to play with the stickout, speed, lube, cutters etc. If you can find some aluminum rod or tube it is easier to play with to just get the feel of things. ------- Internal thread cutting tool with Sherline threading attachment [sherline] Posted by: "Mati Raudsepp" a7a04912x~xxtelus.net Date: Sun Oct 1, 2006 12:19 pm (PDT) I finally got to cutting some threads. External threads came out nicely from tiny 3.0 mm-80 TPI (used a microscope!) to much larger ones - 15/16- 32 TPI. Then I set up for some internal threading but was surprised to see that the cutting tool hooks right (holding tool with cutting end pointing away from you) rather than to the left as shown in Joe Martins book, page 164. Also, I have never in my rather limited experience seen tools hooking right elsewhere (for left hand threads?). Thus internal threads cannot be cut from the outside in unless the tool is inverted. Did I get the wrong tool or am I missing something? Thanks in advance, Mati ------- Re: Internal thread cutting tool with Sherline threading attachment Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Sun Oct 1, 2006 3:52 pm (PDT) Marti: Without seeing a picture of your tool it sounds like you may have a left hand internal threading tool. (Not common but readily available). Assuming of course that it is a threading tool with the correct profile. The Sherline Threading attachment is designed to move the Carriage from right to left when turning the spindle counter clock wise. This will cut external/internal right hand threads. An extra Gear is added to the threading train to cut left hand threads. This extra gear moves the carriage from left to right and will cut both external/internal left hand threads. A left hand internal threading tool is designed to engage the rear internal suface of the work piece with the spindle rotating in a clock wise rotation. In this case the carriage must move from right to left. The advantage of this is that it is much easier to see what you are doing especially when threading into a short tight blind corner. This tool can be used with the Sherline threading system by setting up the train for left hand threads and turning the spindle clock wise. The only caution is that you run the chance of having the chuck unthread from the spindle and damage both the work piece and threading tool. This tool also has many other machining uses where it may be more practical than right hand tools. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Internal thread cutting tool with Sherline threading attachment Posted by: "Mati Raudsepp" a7a04912x~xxtelus.net Date: Sun Oct 1, 2006 4:47 pm (PDT) Jerry, thanks for the summary. I checked with some tool websites and I indeed have a left hand tool. Since making the original post I successfully cut the threads from the inside out counterclockwise using the left hand tool on the back of the diameter. I started with a small groove (~0.025 deep) to start the tool at about 0.300 in the work and cut from the inside out. I used the male part (MD = 0.989) to check from time to time. The result was excellent, but a real pain; the right hand tool would be a lot better to see what is going on. In any event, I am very happy as this is my first try at making a matching female-male set :-) The result has virtually no play but still engages smoothly. I guess whoever packed the kit at Sherline made a mistake and put in the left hand tool. ------- NOTE TO FILE: Naturally you will also want to read the generic file here on Threading which has tips helpful for any lathe brand, as well as manual threading. ------- 10/32 bolts small quantities [sherline] Posted by: "bitshird" zero-koolx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:27 am ((PST)) This site has been mentioned before but someone forgot it for small quantities of screws, machine screws,cap screws what ever type threaded fastener in very small quqntities A.N.S.I. or Metric try: www.boltdepot.com Quantities as small as 1 piece; no connection just used them a few times. Ken Ferrell ------- Re: Gears for threading 11 1/2 pitch [sherline] Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Mar 2, 2007 10:26 am ((PST)) "charlesdewen" wrote: > Is there a way to set up a Sherline to cut 11 1/2 threads? It's not a > listed pitch in the gear table. Thanks. Charley Charley: Yes there is a way to cut 11 1/2 TPI with the Sherline threading attachment. You set up for 11 TPI rigth or left threads and replace the 22 tooth gear in the "D" position with a 23 tooth gear. A 23 tooth gear is not listed in the parts system or charts but Sherline has cut a supply of some odd size gears including 23 tooth and several others. The gear can be ordered by asking for it by the number of teeth. Jerry Kieffer ------- NOTE TO FILE: The real subject of this next conversation should be CUTTING THREADS ON THE SHERLINE. Unfortunately the participants never renamed the messages after the first poster's question about the now extinct Frog attachment. Demonstrates perfectly how misnamed messages sometimes make it hard to find information you need. ------- Re: Frog CNC [sherline group] Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:23 am ((PDT)) > I am very interested in the Frog CNC for a lathe. John: As far as I know the Frog is no longer available. For this discussion I will assume you wanted it for Sherline size Equipment. If so I think you will find that this size equipment is less than desirable for power threading because they lack a high torque locked in slow speed. The best one I have used was a Cowells 90ME with back gear and 60 rpm speed and even that was really not all that great for power threading. Course threads require many very light cuts at high speeds with CNC control. While this may not be a problem on some systems, the Frog system I worked with had some problems locking into position at higher speeds. Also on hobby CNC systems where generally no motor Brake is installed or available, they leave a thread depth ring when the carriage reaches its set depth. Again this may not be a problem for some but it will decrease strength of some itms. I have found this to be undesirable for bolts and thin work pieces such as Optic Tubes/Locking Rings etc. On Scale bolts it is my best guess that it seems to decrease strength by as much as about 25 percent. And of course results will also depend on the material one is threading. Personally I have found the Sherline type hand crank method to be the most accurate, flexible and especially controlable trouble free threading system for a small lathe. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Frog CNC Posted by: "Jerry Jankura" toolzngluex~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:24 pm ((PDT)) Hi, Jerry K: If I may pick your brain about threading using the Sherline attachment. 1. Given a thread of around 10-32 or 1/4-20, how deep a cut would you make for each pass? (I understand that you'd probably want to use a die rather than a single point for commercially available sizes, I'm just interested in depth of cut here.) Assume that I'm using 12L14 or 6061. 2. The times I've used the threading tool, I've found it has a propensity for the gears to jump. I've used the attachment both like Sherline's diagram and Marcus's mod to allow not removing the motor and have gotten similar results. What have you done to minimize this problem? Thanks, Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Re: Frog CNC Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:05 pm ((PDT)) Jerry: First let me say that large course threads are better cut on a larger lathe even though the Sherline system is capable of cutting them. When cutting steel I seldom take cuts of more than .003"-.005" per pass mainly to protect the tip of the cutting tool -- of course with cutting fluid. If you're having problems with gears jumping on the Sherline system, I suspect you have one or both of a couple of issues. First if you are using a sharp quality threading tool, only minimal stress will be applied to the threading Gear Train. Certainly not enough to cause a problem if everything is properly tightened. However you will have a far better chance of this happening if you have excessive gear train backlash because of the arc in the involute tooth shape. With excessive backlash they have far more leverage to push themselves apart. The Sherline system should be adjusted WITH NO backlash for at least two reasons the first being that the gears will not easily separate. The second is that the train is driven in both directions to perform the threading operation. If excessive gear slack is not removed the system may not correctly track the thread pitch with each pass. This will not be enough to effect standard course threads but can be an issue with very fine threads. For anyone who has a problem with slipping gears I can safely say you have at least one of the problems listed above. The reason I can say this is that I have publicly demonstrated this system under much heavier loads than will ever be encountered in threading with no problems. When I do Gear/pinion cutting seminars I cut 32 Pitch worm Gear worms in steel as a demonstration. The threading system is used along with a single point gear cutter as a lathe tool to form the Worm. A single point gear cutter will of course cause far more stress than any threading tool. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Frog CNC Posted by: "Jerry Jankura" toolzngluex~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:52 pm ((PDT)) > When I do Gear/pinion cutting seminars I cut 32 Pitch worm Gear worms Hi, Jerry K: Thanks for your insight. It gives me a number of things to consider and check out the next time I have the need to cut a thread. Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Re: Frog CNC Posted by: "David Clark" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:41 pm ((PDT)) Hello Jerrys J and K, I echo Jerry K's experience and suggestions. I've had excellent results cutting threads up to 1/2 inch in 12L14 and brass, and have no doubt I could do larger if needed. Two questions: Jerry K, do you grease the gears? Aluminum gears have a lot of friction and I've found that things seem to run more smoothly when I give them a coat of PFTE grease, while being careful to keep clamping surfaces clean. On the other hand, I could see a case being made that the gears are anodized, hence less running friction than bare aluminum, and that grease may make them more likely to push them selves apart. Also, do you back the tool out of the thread while cranking the cross slide back to the start? I noticed that the instructions included with the attachment say not to, but this is contrary to my training and experience. Since there is always some tool and/or work piece spring on any cut, it seems to me that there must be some drag while returning. Your thoughts, please? A few more cents worth: In my photo album is a shot of an idea for a follower rest for turning small threads. Also my scheme for using the compound slide on the front side of the work. This enables one to advance the cutting tool at the half angle of the thread and cut one side of the thread only, as is standard practice on many full sized lathes. This would result in less stress on the gear train. Best regards, DC ------- Re: Frog CNC Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:00 pm ((PDT)) Dave: I lube everthing on machine tools requiring lubrication with spray Grease including the Sherline threading gear train. I use "Justice Brothers" spray grease designed for cycle chains. It stays put and penetrates everything. I am sure others would also work as well. I have never kept any clamping surface clean. They all have some type of lube in them. Also I am too bull headed to read instructions so I have no Idea what's in them. When I come to the end of a thread I release the pressure on the tool tip and retract it from the thread. I first of course note the handwheel setting and reset to the new depth before engaging the next pass. I never disengaged the leadscrew on the Sherline system so dragging the tool back across the thread will most likely chip the tip of the tool. Or at least it has for me in the past. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: was: Frog CNC, now: cutting coarse threads Posted by: "Marcus" implmexx~xxaxionet.com Date: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:16 pm ((PDT)) Hi All: I've found that my best insurance to avoid disengaging the gear train is to slip a small C clamp on the banjo to provide a second pinch point. The place where slipping is most likely to occur is where the two arms of the banjo are bolted together with a single 10:32 cap screw. The other connection that mounts the banjo to the mounting tube (the one that is concentric with the carriage leadscrew) is a very strong connection and will not shift with normal clamping pressure. The third possible slipping point is the idler gear in its slot on the second arm of the banjo. I've never had this one slip on me, even cutting 3/4:16 threads and 1/2:13 threads with it. Regarding backing out the threading tool with the cross slide before winding the tool back to the start of the thread, this is done because the backlash in the gear train will throw the tool tip out of phase with the developing thread when the spindle is reversed. You ALWAYS MUST back out with the cross slide before you reverse the spindle or you'll bust off the tool tip and trash the thread. Regarding the appropriate cutting strategy for coarse threads, I've found one that works well for me. It is an adaptation of a common cutting strategy borrowed from the world of CNC threading, and is useful when the thread flanks are so large that you simply cannot generate sufficient force to peel off a shaving when one whole side of the tool is buried in the cut. The technique is moderately complicated but you can cut extremely coarse pitch threads using it, and get perfect results. It tackles the cutting by breaking the job up into 3 phases: a hogout phase whereby the middle of the thread is roughed away, followed by a chasing operation on each flank: the flanks are generated, not formed. A compound slide is required for this technique, and optics help a lot. The hogout phase uses the compound set parallel to the carriage travel, and positions the tool tip to take successive passes across the developing thread, then the cross slide is advanced and a new set of passes continues to define the form, nibbling away eventually down to the root diameter. The generating passes for the first flank use the compound set over at the flank angle and the tool is fed in, using successive increments set with the compound. The compound is then set to the opposite flank angle, the second flank is chased, and the thread is sized. The chipload on the tool is always tiny, because the tool is always generating the flank profile and never forming it. This allows the use of a tool that is ground to be narrower and with steeper flanks than the final flank shape. I like to use three separate tools: - The first is ground to 60 degree included angle and has back rake but no side rake. - The second tool is ground to 55 degrees included angle and has side rake for chasing the trailing flank. - The third tool is also ground at 55 degrees included angle and has side rake on the opposite (leading) flank. Unlike with CNC, my tools have rake to reduce the pressure of the cut... the rake is oriented so the chip rolls off the tool like unravelling toilet paper. That's it in a nutshell...you can use this technique to cut 2 TPI threads in prehard 4140 on a Sherline if you can set up the gear train and have the patience to take a couple of hundred passes. Cheers Marcus ------- Left Hand 6TPI thread [sherline] Posted by: "Tony Horstman" tonyx~xxoryx.net.au Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:12 pm ((PDT)) Hi all: Trying to work out the gearing for a Left Handed 6 TPI thread. The handbook doesn't note left hand versions for the larger pitches and the gearing formulae make my head spin. Can anyone suggest a gear combination that may do the trick? I have all the common gears and some multiples. Thanks in advance Tony Horstman, Brisbane Australia ------- Re: Left Hand 6TPI thread Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxadelphia.net Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:38 pm ((PDT)) Tony, I think that if you look at the setup for a 12 TPI left hand thread it will tell you what you want to know. Substitute a 50 tooth "A" gear for the 100 tooth "A" gear and you should get 6 TPI left. Sherline has a caution that there will be interference between some of the gears and the handwheel in this setup and that you need to make a spacer to keep the handwheel out far enough to prevent this. By the way, you may need to grind a special tool for this to get enough clearance in the groove. I suspect that one of the standard "threading" bits will not clear the thread side wall at 6 TPI. Alan Haisley ------- Re: Left Hand 6TPI thread Posted by: "Tony Horstman" tonyx~xxoryx.net.au noteo37 Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:02 pm ((PDT)) Alan: Scrub that - I was still working on the 6TPI Right Hand gear train. I can't, of course, halve any of the smaller gears, since they are C20, D24, F26 and G30 respectively. The clash with the 50 tooth gear will be the clincher. With a few days to get a new gear, looks like not threading this part might be the way to go. Pity. Thanks for the advice, sorry for the over-eager reply! Cheers Tony Horstman ------- Re: Left Hand 6TPI thread Posted by: "Tony Horstman" tonyx~xxoryx.net.au Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:07 pm ((PDT)) Alan: Unfortunately, apart from not having another 50 tooth gear, it would seem if I placed a 50 tooth gear at "A", then the 40 tooth gear at "C" would clash on the spindle and not allow meshing. If I swap the 40 tooth gear "C" for a 20 tooth, I can get the train to mesh, but does this give the correct ratio? While this flies through cyberspace, I'll go try it. Thanks - yet again this forum makes the impossible obvious. I'm cutting delrin, using a 2.5mm wide groove tool, so the resulting thread is quite fun to build. Cheers Tony Horstman ------- Re: Left Hand 6TPI thread Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:05 pm ((PDT)) Hi Tony: What PD are you looking to make? Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Left Hand 6TPI thread Posted by: "Tony Horstman" tonyx~xxoryx.net.au Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT)) Jerry, PD is 23mm, just shy of 1". The fitting is actually a quick-fit location for a spiral-wound tubing. Cheers Tony Horstman ------- Re: Left Hand 6TPI thread Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:19 pm ((PDT)) Tony: I have my threading train set up for a special TPI and packed for the NAMES show so I have not tried the following suggestion. However the "G" position simply converts the leadscrew rotation for left hand cutting. So any gear you can get into that position regardless of tooth count will convert the standard 6 TPI right hand thread arrangement to a left hand thread. Since I haven`t tried it it may require a simple bracket/mounting hole or longer slot in order to make room for it but that should not be difficult. A rubber "O" ring can be used for any required spacers as suggested by the instructions. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Left Hand 6TPI thread Posted by: "Tony Horstman" tonyx~xxoryx.net.au Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:33 pm ((PDT)) Jerry K, I have built an extended location arm and have placed a 38 tooth gear in the idler (reverse direction) position, with the remainder in the 6TPI Right hand positions. It works! Seems the "G" gear is only ever chosen by size, not by teeth, as you say, and if one can be made fit, then off it goes. I'll measure the resulting pitch shortly, to check it's all ok. Many thanks for the tip - now I understand the geartrain better! Cheers Tony Horstman ------- Re: Left Hand 6TPI thread Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:04 am ((PDT)) Tony: Actually positions E, F and G are idler gears and are used to transmit power and control direction only. (As noted in the instructions.) Fit, not tooth count, is the only concern in these positions. As with any gear train, only the drive and driven positions change the gear ratio. Jerry Kieffer ------- 4400 lathe cross-slide binding [sherline] Posted by: "Bryan H" filltruckmanx~xxmsn.com Date: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:42 pm ((PDT)) Hello: The cross-slide on my Sherline 4400 lathe has begun to bind as I turn the handwheel and I hope the excellent list members can help remedy this problem. Starting at the point the cross-slide is approximately centered over the lathe bed, I begin to feel resistance every half-turn of the handwheel while moving the slide toward the spindle centerline. The resistance increases as the slide gets nearer the spindle centerline and seems to be even greater when reversing handwheel rotation to move the slide away from the spindle centerline. The cross-slide leadscrew doesn't appear bent base on rolling on a flat surface. Neither the cross-slide leadscrew nor the slide-screw insert in the saddle appear to have any chip contamination. The cross-slide gib appears to be just tight enough to prevent side-to-side movement. All parts are lubricated as well. In the five years I've had the lathe, I've had pieces jam while machining only a few times. None of these events seemed significant enough to bend anything. If a new slide-screw insert is required, does anyone know if these are pressed into the saddle or threaded? Thank you, Bryan ------- Re: 4400 lathe cross-slide binding Posted by: "Charles Fox" cafox513x~xxgte.net Date: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:34 pm ((PDT)) If you get any analysis of this, Bryan, I'd love to see a copy. I have something similar on my machine. I think. . . ------- Re: 4400 lathe cross-slide binding Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:52 pm ((PDT)) Hi Bryan, Charles..... Isolation is the key! So, I suggest you remove the lead screw. That will eliminate the influence of the slide screw insert. Take out and examine (closely) the gib. You mention "side to side" movement. If the gib is OK, then re-insert it, lightly lubed with Super Lube. Take up on it until you remove most of the play. Use a DTI to check the amount of the play. Push the cross slide back and forth, then axially. If you remove all the play it will never move! :) After you are satisfied that the gib is set up properly, then we will examine the slide screw insert. The slide screw insert is pushed into the hole in the saddle and secured with a setscrew from underneath. to be continued... Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: 4400 lathe cross-slide binding Posted by: "Charles Fox" cafox513x~xxgte.net Date: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:03 am ((PDT)) Don't know what happened. Maybe the machine said to itself, "Oh, oh, Jerry G is going to get me!" and straightened itself out. Either that, or I adjusted something a few weeks ago and forgot. At any rate, it's smooth running in all four directions. I lubed it a bit anyhow, more out of thanks than any real need. Gotta go make chips now. ------- Re: 4400 lathe cross-slide binding Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT)) Good for you, Charles. Just a suggestion....Keep a log of whatever you do in regard to your equipment. Then you can cross reference it to any malfunctions in the future. And also help out guys like Bryan. Later, Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: 4400 lathe cross-slide binding Posted by: "geneking2001" geneking2001x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:25 am ((PDT)) From my experience when my slides bind up as you describe I have found a couple of areas that need attention. If the binding is worse as the hand wheel nears the centerline of the lathe, first is to remove the knob and loosen the screw holding the thrust plate just a little. Replace the knob and move the slide all the way towards the center position. Now remove the knob and tighten the screw in the thrust plate. This makes sure that the lead screw is centralized. The same principle works for the z axis; move the z axis nut as close to the hand wheel and adjust the lead screw to be centered. One other binding related to the screws is relative large area of contact between the knob and the thrust plate. I put two thin shims on each side of the thrust plate that act like little thrust bearings. Of course as mentioned proper lube for every thing. Also I left out the gibs and slide adjustment but it is very important and must also be 'right' for things to work. These steps have kept my lathes and mills running for the past 35 years that I have used them. Just a note, my 1100 lathe has Ron Sher's name in the casting, the original cross slide threads were actually cut in the saddle. I had to make a reamer to clean out the old metric threads and make a seat for the 'new' saddle nut to change it over to inch thread. I used it for years with inch thread on the z axis lead screw and metric on the cross slide. GeneK ------- Re: 4400 lathe cross-slide binding/ Soap Box Posted by: "bushman31x~xxaol.com" bushman31x~xxaol.com Date: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:16 pm ((PDT)) Well, I am off to work again on nights so it will be a few days before I can get on the computer again. I read Gene's note and it is good advice. On my mill I have the star wheel backlash counter nut. I removed the table again, cleaned it, and didn't find any problems. Once again though I had to push in on the table to keep the lead nut from coming out of its socket while feeding in the lead screw. Once the table goes in about 2 or 3 inches I can stop pushing and the nut will remain in place. On the gibs, they don't have a gradual taper, but suddenly increase in width at both ends, especially on the left side where it is not in between the saddle and table. I am going to replace the gibs and lead nut. Today, after I was rudely awakened (hope I can stay awake tonight, not good to fall asleep at a mine!) I noticed a "clunk" on the Y-axis while bringing the table towards the handwheel. This happened every 3-4 revolutions, and when it was getting close to the handwheel. When advancing the Y-axis towards the spindle it does not do this, and there wasn't any felt binding in either direction, just a noise. I am going to go ahead and replace the gib on this too. Ron Wilkinson ------- NOTE TO FILE: The last thread started on 16 Apr 2007 but switched to the Sherline mill's accuracy (but never changed subject title). See the Sherline Mill Quirks or Tips file starting 26 Apr 2007. ------- Re: Watchmaking & Sherline [sherline] Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:25 am ((PDT)) Shopman (Name ???) I am a little late on this since I just reurned from the NAMES show in Toledo. The short answer to your question is yes. Many traditional watchmakers will tell that you cannot machine watch parts on a Sherline type Lathe. Many years ago the only option was a jewelers lathe and the industry has changed little in the past 100 years. On top of that most books on the subject that are still used today were also written when no other option was available but a jewelers lathe. However anyone with basic machining skills on the Sherline Lathe can demonstrate to the contrary. The jewelers lathe was designed to be used with a graver and is at its best when used in that manner. Some of the finest work ever done has been done this way but seldom without 40-50 years of developing skill. With this method one must first master the art of sharpening and shaping a graver. Removing metal with a sharp graver and forming freehand shapes in soft metal can be mastered by the average person in a few weeks of practice. Then of course there are those with natural talent unlike myself who can do it over night. (This just irritates the heck out of me.) On the other hand talent or not cutting watch size parts to an accurate dimension with a graver generally takes many many years of skill development for the average person. The Sherline lathe can also be used with a Graver but you will need to build or purchase the optional graver rest. The Sherline can also be used to machine watch parts with the carriage/cross slide/tool post lathe tool. This process is about 80% machine and 20% skill with a Sherline compared to jewelers lathe/Graver that is about 90% skill 10% lathe. On the Sherline you will need to develop the skill to accurately center the lathe tool tip to the center of the spindle. You will also need to develop a feel for the proper speed/ finish/drilling with small drills. And of course learn to machine using handwheel settings for accurate dimensional work. These skills are very easily learned in a very short time if you have the desire. Both a Jewelers lathe and and Sherline Lathe will require a set of ww/8mm collets. For watchmaking I would suggest the 4500A package short bed lathe. I would also suggest the centering ww/8mm collet holding tailstock option since you will have a collet set. You can also use a centering device with a small albrecht chuck but it will be more expensive. Almost all watch lathe work can be done with two brazed carbide lathe tools, an AR-4 and an E-4. I would suggest Micro- 100 tools for this because of their very fine finish from the factory. A cutoff tool can be made by making a holder for a standard .019" wide solid carbide groving tool from any tool supply house. Both methods will work equally as well except using a Sherline as intended will get you up to speed on making accurate usable watch parts much much faster. Jerry Kieffer [shortly afterwards in an Apr 25, 2007 message] If by chance the Sherline lathe will be limited to Watch and Clock work you may want to consider a short bed or try both before purchase. For watch and clock work the long bed will rarely if ever be needed. The short bed carriage handwheel is closer and much more comfortable to use for this type of work. It is also much easier to read the handwheel settings. ------- Re: Unscientific survey, does size really matter .... tool bit size Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Sat Jun 2, 2007 10:38 am ((PDT)) In sherline"mr_mike_lucek" wrote: > Since I (re)started the subject about QCTP and tool bit size, I > thought I'd take an informal survey. > - What lathe tool bit size do you use on the Sherline lathe. > - Is bigger better ? > - What type - HSS, carbide, all the above ? > - Do you use a QCTP (quick change tool post), if so, which one ? > Thanks, Mike Mike: I am sure that my personal comments/opinions specifically on the use of a Sherline Lathe will be in the minority on these issues. However I have a need to do accurate, repeatable work in a TIMELY fashion. After more than 7000 hours on a Sherline lathe that has been achieved as follows. First you should be purchasing a Sherline size Lathe to do small work of the size it was designed to do. Purchasing a small Lathe to do large work with large tooling is a disaster. Next I do not use a QCTP for several reasons. They always seem to be in the way on this size Lathe and are very time consuming when used on a regular basis. In addition I have yet to use one that is Accurate, Repeatable and Rigid other than the all steel construction type such as from Sherline. I will admit that they look impressive on the lathe and certainly will not be a problem unless you're constantly making chips. (My opinion of course.) My work ranges from Watches, clocks, model Engineering Models, Instument repair and micro machining prototypes etc. Having done this for over 20 years, I have found that over 90% of my Lathe tool work can be done with only a AR-4 (1/4") Brazed Carbide tool and a E-4 Brazed Carbide tool. These two tools are mounted in a two side Sherline tool holder along with a rear mounted cut off tool. Rotating a tool post 180% is much faster, more accurate and more rigid than any of the QCTP`s that I have used. The rear mounted cutoff tool can be left in place for most jobs; that is certainly much faster than a QCTP. I seldom use HSS lathe tools because unlike Carbide they are not suitable for all materials and constantly need time consuming sharpening, setup, etc. I do not use typical Carbide insert tooling on this size equipment because the inserts from the factory are not well suited for fine detail machining. Other special form tooling etc, are held in several other standard tool posts that are easily and rapidly installed if needed. The seperate tool posts are small enough to allow for more than one toolpost/Tool to be mounted in a usable position on the cross slide at once. This is a great advantage when doing those occasional complicated repetitive jobs that we all dread. My personal observation over the years is that beginners (including myself when I started) purchase too many accessories and make far too few chips. About 50-100 hours on a basic machine will tell you everything you will need to know. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Unscientific survey, does size really matter .... tool bit size Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Sat Jun 2, 2007 1:12 pm ((PDT)) In sherline "dan pines" wrote: > cheapie brazed carbide and cheapie carbide inserts really suck even > when new. the brazed ones seem to chip very easily. the same holds > true for cheapie boring bars. Dan: You bring up a very good point that I did not cover in my post. While I prefer Brazed carbide, I only use the best quality USA made tooling. I consider "Carboloy" to be a minimum Quality for general use and "Micro-100" to some of the best I have used. However it is very difficult to convince anyone of the far better value of the more expensive quality tooling until they have used it. I see many people struggle with developing higher skill levels mainly caused by poor quality tooling as well as poor quality Machine Tools. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Unscientific survey, does size really matter .... tool bit size Posted by: "Marcus" implmexx~xxaxionet.com Date: Sun Jun 3, 2007 11:02 am ((PDT)) Hi Mike: Smaller is better...less grinding. I use 1/8" square, 3/16" square, 1/4" square HSS. I also use 1/8" dia, 3/16" dia and 1/4" dia HSS and carbide rounds. I don't use a QCTP on the Sherline but I do use one (Multifix) on my Monarch. Cheers Marcus ------- Virtue of a Compound Slide? [sherline] Posted by: "sefo_au" jasherx~xxwestnet.com.au Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:13 am ((PDT)) I'm looking at getting the complete machine shop set-up, with a few extras. As someone who once used full-sized lathes and milling machines in my employment, I was seemingly bent on getting as many accessories as it would take to make my Sherline shop comparable to what I used before, albeit on a smaller scale. After careful thought and reading of the Sherline literature, I realised that a lot of the stuff was superfluous and often doubling up on capacities already available with the package I am looking at getting. Case in point is the compound slide. Most larger machines have them, so I thought I'd need one too. But do I? With the ability to offset the headstock for taper turning, isn't the compound slide redundant? Especially coupled with the fact that an offset headstock can be used with the power-feed (one extra I definitely WILL be purchasing) to produce a good surface finish? So, is the compound slide a necessity? How easy is it to turn a #1 Morse taper using the headstock offset method? Would the compound slide achieve a better, or even comparable, result? ------- Re: Virtue of a Compound Slide? Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:48 pm ((PDT)) Hi sefo(?) in Australia(?) It depends on what you intend to produce on the lathe; if you will be making lots of tapers it can be tiresome to tram the headstock back after each taper. It can be helpful with threading. You can dial in a lighter cut with the compound than you can with the crosslide alone. A little food for thought. Martin ------- NOTE TO FILE: David Wood came up with an alignment widget that was originally intended for the Sherline mill head. It has also proved very useful for aligning the headstock on the lathe. See his description of the widget in the Sherline Mods General file; look for his message on May 19, 2006. David Wood's photo and drawing for the widget are now in the Yahoo Sherline group's Photos in the folder titled "Alignment widget". A further message that mentions the widget's utility on the lathe can be found in the Sherline Mill Quirks or Tips file in his message on 27 Sep, 2007. A brilliantly simple and very effective idea. Thanks. ------- Re: Reinstalling gibs [sherline] Posted by: "William Rutiser" wruyahoo05x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 5:31 am ((PST)) There are eight ways to position a gib for installation. Only one of them works. The lathe saddle and cross-slide gibs have distinct part numbers so there may be some subtle difference. The gibs are manufactured with extra length at each end and cut to length when fitted to a particular lathe. The hole for the adjuster is also drilled when fitted. It's not likely that pre-fitted gibs will be interchangeable. First note that one end is thicker than the other in one dimension. The adjuster hole is on the thick end. When installed, both lathe gibs have the hole horizontal. (It's vertical on one mill gib.) Assemble a slide without the gib. Hold the gib by the end with the hole. Place the gib along the way with the small end nearest the saddle's hole for the adjuster. The gib's top and bottom surfaces should be horizontal when inserted. If not, turn it over. Insert the gib. Before the gib is fully inserted, put the short end of the "L" shaped adjuster wire into the hole in the gib. Guide the long end into its hole in the saddle while pushing the gib into place. This step is a little awkward. The parts are odd shapes and covered with grease. Its probably easier if the headstock is removed and the lathe is not fastened down. Pushing a gib in too far will create excessive drag which may lock the slide or cause wear. On the other hand, a loose gib, while allowing free motion, will allow the saddle to rotate a little which may affect accuracy and finish. Take your time and have patience. Note that while flattening a gib with a file or sandpaper may improve things, it must be done before the hole is drilled and the excess is cut off. The gib is only slightly tapered so removing just a little material lets it go in a lot farther so a pre-drilled hole will be in the wrong position. Remove too much and the gib slides all the way through. The good news is gibs cost only a few dollars. Bill Rutiser ------- Re: Seeking opinions regarding Digital Readout and Display [sherline] Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:13 am ((PST)) VP Name?? I see an advantage to using a DRO on Sherline equipment for those who may have vision or other issues but not for absolute accuracy. In addition I can see it as an advantage in some cases such as non critical repetitive work if it has large easy to read readouts. However the Sherline leadscrews are several times more accurate than complete designed units or cobbled slides and or calipers etc. Especialy the inexpensive inconsistent Chinese units. An example of this would be when I teach Watch balance staff cutting on a Sherline Lathe. The smallest part of a staff is the pivot that is about .005" in diameter and about .025" long. This pivot needs to be properly fitted to the balance jewel or bearing. If you take off too much metal, you of course in many cases scrap an hour's worth of work and start over. When cutting the pivot I have the students machine the pivot about .001" larger than measured or specified size. From that point I have them sneak up on the proper size by removing about .0001"-.0003" per pass until the pivot can be polished to a proper fit. This is done by first adjusting the slides as loose as possible without any side to side movement. This is done to decrease chances of the slide from springing or jumping forward preventing accurate movement when slght leadscrew pressure is applied. From that point the hand wheels are advanced under magnification sometimes as little as less than the thickness of a calibration mark. After a few practice movements the stutents are able to remove about .0002" per pass on a consistent basis. This is several times more accurate than the stated accuracy of DRO`s, slides and Calipers etc. I do not use DRO`s on my Sherline equipment. However when all things are considered, the Sherline system may very well be one of the most accurate available options in actual use. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Seeking opinions regarding Digital Readout and Display Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:09 pm ((PST)) Jerry, I see a use for both a DRO and the handwheels used together. It depends upon the part though. If a part is big enough that working it requires several turns, but also requires accuracy at the end, a DRO can relieve one of needing to count turns and fractions. On the other hand, when the cut gets close to the limit, switching focus from the DRO to the handwheel could allow you to bring it in with the accuracy you describe. To do this the display and handwheel both need to be readable from the same eye position so you don't need to "hunt" to switch from one to the other. I do agree that a DRO made essentially from digital caliper parts lacks accuracy - just as the Sherline one only has the resolution provided by the DRO wheel involved. Still, using one in place of handwheel rotation counting could avoid some mistakes. I don't have a DRO, but I will probably add the Sherline unit just for this purpose eventually. (Of course it's possible that in the meantime rotation counting will become so much second nature that when I am able to add DRO I will no longer really need it and can use the cash for some more useful tooling.) Alan P.S. Have you ever looked into modifying the fixed pointers on a Sherline lathe or mill to have a vernier scale? I'd think that this would be rather easy for you and might really improve the interpolation. Not sure why Joe doesn't already do this for the machines. ------- Re: Seeking opinions regarding Digital Readout and Display Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:25 pm ((PST)) Alan, The cost, man! Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Seeking opinions regarding Digital Readout and Display Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:38 pm ((PST)) Alan: While nothing is perfect I haven`t had enough of a problem to warrant any modifications. I suspect Jerry G is correct on the cost and also possibly the demand. You could of course E-Mail this suggestion to Sherline and see how they respond. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Mounting the Sherline Lathe [sherline] Posted by: "Craig Earls" enderw88x~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:22 pm ((PST)) too_many_tools wrote: > Has anyone built a mounting base/storage case for their Sherline > lathe similar to the Unimat 1 configuration? If so, I would love to > hear its description and see any pictures of the completed setup. > Thanks TMT See shop number 2 on the Sherline site. http://www.sherline.com/shops.htm Craig ------- [sherline] Sherline Deal of the Month - Compound Lathe Slide ... worth getting? Posted by: "too_many_tools" too_many_toolsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 10:48 am ((PDT)) The latest Sherline Deal of the Month is their compound lathe slide. http://www.sherline.com/special.htm Is it worth getting? Thanks for your advice. TMT ------- Re: Sherline Deal of the Month - Compound Lathe Slide ... worth gett Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 11:55 am ((PDT)) TMT, in my opinion, YES. Understand, you have to "wrap your mind around" doing it backwards but, it does work. Dan. ------- Re: Sherline Deal of the Month - Compound Lathe Slide ... worth gett Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 11:57 am ((PDT)) Dan: Why "backwards"? Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Sherline Deal of the Month - Compound Lathe Slide ... worth gett Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 11:58 am ((PDT)) Hi TMT, Yes, except: In order to use the slide the way it was designed, you must have your toolbit upside down. I have the slide and did not like this, after spending a lot of years on full size lathes. With the toolbit right side up. So, I designed and fabricated an adapter which allows me to have the toolbit right side up, and see what I am doing. If you go to Sherline's website, scroll down to Machinist's Tips, look at Tip # 32. Craig Libuse has set up a link to my website, and follow the instructions. At the present time, The Compound Slide and the Adapter are up for sale. Regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) Off list for details and negotiations, please. ------- Re: Sherline Deal of the Month - Compound Lathe Slide ... worth gett Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 12:03 pm ((PDT)) Jerry, because the tool bit is upside down and you cut from what I call, the back side of the lathe. But, since "someone" made an adapter to me, I can cut from the front side and get pretty accurate with it too Thanks guy, Dan ------- Re: Sherline Deal of the Month - Compound Lathe Slide ... worth gett Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 12:22 pm ((PDT)) Dan, "someone made an adapter to you"? How long have you been in this country, Sir? Jerry G (Glickstein) aka "guy".... :) ------- Re: Sherline Deal of the Month - Compound Lathe Slide ... worth gett Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 1:24 pm ((PDT)) Jerry G, Yes, you made it for me Thank you. It works perfectly. I am very thankful you took the time and effort to make it for me. I didn't know you wanted me to give you credit so you would not be bothered by 'others' trying to convince you to make them one too. It sure does make the compound slide work easier for me to use. Dan ------- Re: Sherline Deal of the Month - Compound Lathe Slide ... worth gett Posted by: "Pete Johnson" pappy50x~xxcox.net Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 4:38 pm ((PDT)) I am fairly new at machining my own parts but have found the coumpound slide very useful. The main down side that I found was that the slide is caclulated in 2 degee increments and I had some difficulty getting my tapers right without wasting a lot of material first. I am sure some of the more experienced machinists can do it much easier or have tables to help. Well, I decided to use the technology that we all use on this board and created an Excel spread sheet to help. I have loaded it in the files under "taper calculator early". It converts your dimensions large and small diameter (and distance between the two) into degrees in tenths. This should get you very close to the taper on the first try. Pete J. ------- Re: Sherline Deal of the Month - Compound Lathe Slide ... worth gett Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Tue Jun 3, 2008 5:16 pm ((PDT)) Hi Pete: When I need a good taper, I put a master in a chuck, get it running "dead nuts", axially as well as concentrically, and dial the Compound Slide in with a DTI. Once it is set, you just put your work in place. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Crosslide disconnection [sherline] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:42 pm ((PDT)) "Kevin" wrote: > I wasn't really looking for the instructions to remove or adjust the > crosslide. Rather I need to replace the slide screw insert, which > has pulled out of the saddle. Hello Kevin: Here's what you do: refer to http://www.sherline.com/LathExPN.pdf 1. Take the Lathe off of the plywood, or whatever else you've got it screwed to. 2. Remove the Head Stock and motor by loosening the Cone Point Set Screw (40540). Set aside. 3. Turn the lathe upside down, placing the top of the bed (44120) on some suitable blocks so the tail stock clears. A couple of soup cans would do fine. 4. Remove the two cap screws (40515) that hold the base (44010) onto the lathe and lift off the base. Set aside 5. Now you're looking at the bottom of the saddle. You can see that the Slide Screw Insert (40890) is held in the saddle by a set screw (40520). In principle, you could just loosen the set screw, shove the insert on the lead screw back into the saddle, and re-tighten. But you need to find out why it came out in the first place. I suggest you: 6. Loosen the screw (40900) holding the Gib Lock (40820) and loosen the gib (40980). 7. Pull the cross slide, along with the stepper motor and lead screw off of the saddle. The insert should still be on the lead screw. 8. Carefully, hold the insert with your fingers or a pair of pliers, and turn the hand wheel, or drive the stepper, to run the insert off the end of the lead screw. 9. Throughly clean everything and lightly lubricate. 10. Reassemble the cross slide on the saddle without the insert. Adjust the gib while sliding the cross slide by hand its full range. You're after a compromise between removing all play from the slide, without producing excessive friction. Note the position of the gib, measure or mark it. 11. Loosen the gib, and pull the slide back off the saddle. 12. Install the insert and snug down the set screw. Another compromise: you want to hold the insert, but not compress it on the lead screw. 13. Run the cross slide back onto the saddle with the lead screw. 14. Adjust the gib to the measured position, and verify that you can easily run the saddle its full range with the hand wheel. You can actually do all this without taking the lathe off its base. You may need to cut down an Allen wrench to be able to get it into the insert set screw. But I like to take the base off. That's the easiest part of the whole procedure, lets you see everything, gives you access to the Z axis lead screw to clean and lube. This is probably harder to follow than it is to write, but once you've done it, it's really not a big deal. Let me know how you make out. If you get stuck, you can call me at home. Email me direct for the number. DC David Clark in Southern Maryland USA ------- Re: Crosslide disconnection Posted by: "Kevin" researchx~xxresearch-systems.com Date: Wed Aug 6, 2008 1:42 pm ((PDT)) Hello David: Many thanks for the detailed instructions. I was able to get the lathe up and running again in about half an hour. Previously I had been cutting 70mm circles from 5mm thick 100mm square perspex by slowly working a 35 degree tool through from one side, reversing the work and then going through from the other side. However, I think that I may have been too agressive in one cut and the job grabbed and probably jolted enough to pull out the slide screw insert. Anyway, thanks to your help, it's all fixed now and I know what to do should there be a next time. Best Regards, Kevin ------- Re: Crosslide disconnection Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Thu Aug 7, 2008 4:52 am ((PDT)) You're very welcome, I'm glad that worked out for you. I have the impression from other threads over the years, that some Sherline owners are reluctant to disassemble their machines. Possibly on the "ain't broke don't fix it" principle, or perhaps out of concern they won't be able to get things back together properly. I've mentioned before my More Or Less Annual Take Everything Apart Clean Lubricate and Adjust Routine, or MOLATEACLAR (pronounced: molateaclar). This is something I encourage everyone to do. A home shop machinist has to be his own Maintenance Department, Millwright, and Metrologist. There's no good reason I know of not to be able to do all this. Once you've MOLATEACLARed a couple of times, you can do it all in a few hours. You'll keep your machines performing at their peak, and when something does break, you'll easily be able to find and fix the problem. I'd suggest doing it for no other reason than to thoroughly understand how these machines work. DC ------- Accurising the Tailstock - Cheating Method [MyMyford] Posted by: "furkaoberalp" a.websterx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:35 am ((PDT)) Good Morning, Several threads have been about tailstock alignment. If the problem persists after playing with the adjuster screws and turning a test bar, pinch an idea for a semi-permanent, non-toolmaking fix from Sherline. That firm makes a not-obscenely-expensive adaptor for 1/4-3/8" Jacob's chucks, collets, and slave-type workholding devices. It is adjustable in two axes so as to adjust out alignment error. I have just tried mine in a reducing sleeve and it works just fine on the Myford for light jobs. This simple gadget is also easy to make in larger 2-MT size. See Sherline's website for specs and instruction sheets. Sherline sell these ostensibly so their products can be adjusted to extreme accuracy. Yet contrary to popular opinion, the alignment of a new Sherline can be quite rotten, as I have discovered. I need the thing just to make the lathe work properly, although it is true that alignment error can be eliminated with it. Andrew ------- Older brass Sherline lathe? [sherline] Posted by: "Michael Glavin" michaelglavinx~xxcomcast.net Date: Fri Nov 7, 2008 8:28 am ((PST)) Evening all, I'm hoping someone has some experience and or knowledge of the older Sherline brass bed and cross-slide equipped lathes. Specifically is there any reason for concern when considering purchase of same with regard to the brass materials. Obviously brass or steel, one is concerned with wear-tear and physical damage. That said does the brass hold up as well over time, should I look for a steel bed lathe or consider the brass unit if it's in good condition? Regards, Michael ------- Re: Older brass Sherline lathe? Posted by: "Charles Hixon" cehixonx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Nov 7, 2008 9:32 am ((PST)) The brass one will work fine, especially if it's in good condition. ------- Re: Older brass Sherline lathe? Posted by: "Jim Ash" ashcanx~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Nov 7, 2008 10:21 am ((PST)) The only down side that comes to mind is that the older lathes have the older AC drive motor, which is far inferior to the DC motor they switched to later. If you can live with the AC motor, go for it. The easiest way to tell which is which is to take a quick look at the controller. The AC controller is skinny, maybe an inch wide. The DC controller is almost square on top, maybe 3-4 inches wide. The motors themselves are visually different too, but the controllers are more visible in photographs when you see them in places like ebay. Jim Ash ------- Re: Older brass Sherline lathe? Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Nov 7, 2008 10:30 am ((PST)) Michael: I would not normally suggest a Brass bed Sherline lathe at least not for what they sell for on E Bay. The Brass bed itself is certainly not an issue if of course it is in good condition along with the rest of the machine. What are issues are the upgrades that have been made over the years since the brass bed machines, making the current Lathes a far superior product. One of the main upgrades was the DC variable speed motors that have high torque throughout the speed range. They must be compared side by side to appreciate the advantage of this motor system compared to the old AC units. In addition the current production Spindle bearings are superior to the older production units. In a 20 year old system they should be replaced if for no other reason than the possible deteriorated sealed lubrication. Another major upgrade has been the Tailstock. In the older units with the center slit allowing clamping to the bed caused repeatability issues. Repeatability and spindle alignment would change in these units depending on the amount of torque applied to the screw that locked the tailstock to the bed. The new units have a locking side Gib eliminating these issues and are also relieved in front giving greater reach over the cross slide. Also on the new units the headstock alignment key stock is ground to fit a more accurate slot giving greater repeatability if the headstock is removed and replaced. If the lathe is to be used on a regular basis and you compare used prices to new prices, I think you may find a new lathe a better value for the dollar in the long run. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Older brass Sherline lathe? Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Fri Nov 7, 2008 7:51 pm ((PST)) Michael, I have an old brass bed Sherline. In fact, mine is an original Australian import. In addition to Jerry's comments, I would add the following: The bed is worn near the headstock just from long use. This means that if the gib is loose enough for free action near the right limit then it is too loose near the headstock. While the new units have the carriage and cross-slide dovetails cut on a taper to accept the modern tapered gib, my lathe has straight dovetails and brass gibs which require three setscrews each for adjustment. Hopefully I never lose or break one of these gibs since they are no longer available as stock items. Another issue is with the way the cross slide screw works. In the new units, there is a threaded insert in the cross slide for action with the screw. Mine has the cross slide tapped directly. Both the cross slide screw and the tapped threads in the brass are worn. Just replacing the cross slide screw won't help that much and so, If I want to clean up the cross slide backlash and inaccuracy, I will need to bore out the threads in the cross slide to take the modern threaded insert. I don't even know if this can be done. The carriage screw could be replaced, I think, since even this early model uses the brass carriage nut that is still in use. The handwheels on mine are plain aluminum with stamped markings. They are much harder to read than the modern red anodized dials with the laser engraving marks. Also, the wheel knobs are unmovable brass while the modern ones are able to rotate. Alan ------- Re: Turning threads [sherline] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:21 am ((PST)) "Michael Glavin" wrote: > I have yet to attempt to turn threads; I have the Sherline thread > cutting stuff. Any pointers... Hello Michael. Good question. Cutting threads on a Sherline can initially be a little challenging. But, once you get the hang of it, works very well. Before you risk a good workpiece, practice on some scrap until you feel confident. The biggest problem I've had is the gears jumping out of mesh. This is most often caused by the support arms moving. Make sure that all parts clamped together by friction are perfectly clean and dry. You may also want to put a small C-Clamp on the support arms to help the single screw that clamps them together. Then, lightly lubricate the gears and spindles. I use Sherline's PFTE grease. With everything in mesh, turn the spindle back and forth several times, applying drag with your hand, before you start cutting (Unplug the motor!) to make sure everything is turning smoothly and stays in mesh. Take very light cuts, only a few thousandths inch, depending on the material and depth of thread. Take "spring cuts" without advancing the cross slide as you approach the final depth. Before you start, have a nut or other thread gauge handy to check the finished thread. (Assuming you don't have a pitch micrometer, or want to use the 3 wire method.) Sherline's instructions advise to turn the spindle backwards, without backing out the cutting tool, after each cut. I strongly disagree. Even with the lightest cuts, tool and/or workpiece spring can cause the tool to drag in the thread. Instead, at the end of each cut, note the reading on the cross slide hand wheel index, and back the tool well out of the thread. Then turn the spindle back to the start of the thread, and return the hand wheel to the last reading plus whatever cut you want to take. This will also run out the cross slide backlash. Use a good quality cutting fluid appropriate to your material. If you are cutting a small thread, say #6 or less, depending on the material, the work may tend to climb over the tool. I have a solution for this, but can't at the moment access my photos of it. If you have this situation, let me know, and I'll try to describe it. I expect others will have more to add, and I probably will too as I think of them. Good luck, and let us know how you are doing. DC David Clark from Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: Turning threads Posted by: "Forrest A" atkinonx~xxhotmail.com Date: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:57 pm ((PST)) Replace the carbide 60 deg. tool supplied with the threading kit. Get or grind a 60 deg. HSS tool. The lighter the cut the better the results you will have (also eliminates the gear jumping problem). I also recommend not using any lube on the gears for the reason that it attracts chips and will be one big messy chip infested pain in the butt. I undercut the area just past the last thread for the cutting bit to end the cut. Do not unlock the clutch until you are done threading. FBA ------- my cross slide handle came off [sherline] Posted by: "davedazer" ddazerx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:59 pm ((PDT)) While trying out my old (but new to me) Sherline lathe, the cross slide handle and long screw that is attached to it came off. I can thread it back on and it will move the cross slide forward, but when I try to bring it back, the handle comes off. Is this a quick fix? This is a 1978 vintage model with a brass bed if that matters at all. I should point out that all I know about machining I learned from Jerry Kieffer at a recent class held at the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors. I was trying to make a machine screw when this happened. Please help! Thanks, Dave ------- Re: my cross slide handle came off Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:29 pm ((PDT)) Dave: If I understand your problem, the cross slide lead screw with hand wheel attached unscrews from the saddle. If so it sounds like the cross slide thrust collar (part #40280) mounting screw (part #40530) has come loose or broken. See Sherline's exploded view in the assembly instruction guide provided in your class handout. Since it will move the cross slide forward it is probably not a leadscrew insert nut problem. (Part #40890) It should be checked to see if it's tightly locked in place never the less. The thrust collar mounting screw is currently a 5-40 x .375" long screw generally available at your local hardware/auto supply stores. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: my cross slide handle came off Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:18 pm ((PDT)) Jerry, It sounds like Dave's is about the same vintage as mine. If that's so, there is no part #40890. Instead, on my cross slide, the slide itself is bored out and tapped for the lead screw. If his is the same then it must be the thrust collar, as you mention. I think Dave should go to http://www.sherline.com/latheins.htm and scroll down to the lathe diagram and parts list. Compare the picture with your machine and see if the thrust collar is missing or not fastened properly. Alan ------- placement of new lathe on mounting board [sherline] Posted by: "davedazer" ddazerx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Tue Apr 7, 2009 5:06 pm ((PDT)) Can anyone explain why the Sherline directions show that the lathe is to be mounted in the lower right hand area of the mounting board instead of in the center? Does it really matter? Thanks, Dave ------- Re: placement of new lathe on mounting board Posted by: "Charles Fox" cafox513x~xxverizon.net Date: Tue Apr 7, 2009 5:28 pm ((PDT)) The motor sticks up and away from the rest of the lathe, toward the left and back. Clever devils, aren't they? ------- Re: placement of new lathe on mounting board Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Wed Apr 8, 2009 9:29 am ((PDT)) Dave: It looks like it's a matter of balance and portability. The position of the motor is such that mounting where they show will allow the lathe to be entirely "on the board" with no overhang. Actually, how you mount the lathe depends on your needs. If you need portability because you frequently move the lathe around, mounting as described will make the lathe easier to carry. If you are going to convert to CAM sometime in the future, you will undoubtedly remount the lathe to give better positioning for the stepper motors. In my case, since I don't move mine, I mounted it on a shop built table. In addition, I put a couple pieces of MDF sized exactly the same as the lathe directly under the lathe frame. That let me raise the handwheels up off the table enough for comfort. I also fastened a piece of sheet steel in front of the lathe so I would have something for a magnetic indicator holder to grab. Others put a steel plate behind the lathe for this purpose. Somewhere on here there are other threads that discuss mounting or enclosing the lathe or mill. The general consensus seems to be that there is no consensus; people mount the tools as convenient to their particular needs. If you go to the Sherline site and search for "workshop" you can see some interesting and perhaps inspiring examples of shop setups and tool mounting. Alan ------- used lathe headstock-tailstock alignment off -- newbee [sherline] Posted by: "Tom Trikalinos" ttrikalinx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 3:54 am ((PDT)) If you do not like newbee questions, please pass... I bought a used sherline 4000 -- an oldie, brass bed. Cleaned and oiled it, and most things seem to be ok (as far as I can see, feel and run). Spindle has very little runout (barely moves the needle (<0.0005"), everything moves nice and easy, lead screw backlash <.005" after adjusting the saddle nut. Here's the problem I observed: Headstock to tailstock alignment is obviously off... When I put the dead centers in, and move the tailstock (spindle full extended) near the headstock, they are ~0.005-0.01" off (horizontally, by eye -- could not tell if any vertically). I think that this is too much... even for non-precision work... I tried to diagnose doing the following: A. I do not know whether the headstock is well aligned -- For now, I rely on the alignment key only. A1. I cannot test it with a "true" rod (my long shaft drill bit) because my (ab)used 3 jaw chuck has a lot of runout (I plan to dress it as soon as I receive the boring bit I ordered)... A2. I ordered a 4 jaw chuck; I plan to use this to hold my drill bit in the center of rotation with low tolerance so as to check/fix headstock alignment... but it'll take a few days... B. I extended the tailstock spindle fully, and I felt along it with a dial indicator I mounted on the saddle The horizontal difference is <0.0005" over 1" travel The vertical difference is ~0.0015 over 1" travel (pointing upwards). Is this amount of misalignment what you would see in a new machine? Can you tell anything from A and B above? thanks for any thoughts. tom ------- Re: used lathe headstock-tailstock alignment off -- newbee Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 4:42 am ((PDT)) Hello Tom: Sounds to me as if you know what you're doing. Your methods and conclusions appear to be correct. I suggest you wait 'til you get your 4 jaw. Then, as you say, get a piece of drill rod or something else known to be true. Get it running on center without wobble. Indicate its length to check that the spindle axis is parallel to the bed. Then check the tailstock alignment as you describe by comparing centers, (of course you need to be sure the centers are true -- rotate them to be sure). Probably the best way to check tailstock alignment is to mount a piece of stock between centers, take a cut, and check for taper with a micrometer. You may end up, as I have, using Sherline's adjustable tailstock tooling. see: http://tinyurl.com/ls7rmj part numbers 1016, and 1201 - 1206. Let us know how you make out. BTW, dressing a 3 jaw with a boring bar is kind of a dicey proposition. Is it a Sherline chuck? How much run out is there? DC David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: used lathe headstock-tailstock alignment off -- newbee Posted by: "Joseph Bautsch" joe.bautschx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 5:34 am ((PDT)) Tom, The backlash on the lead screw should be less than .005". It should not be more than .002-.003". If you can't get it in that range, then you may need to replace the saddle. The factory preload for the spindle is .0002". If you are getting a runout of .0005" then the preload is way off. You probably need to tighten the spindle bearings to get it down to factory specs. On the older machines the head locking key only points the head in the general direction of the tail stock. The keys were not milled with any degree of accuracy. Getting a new milled key will help a lot but you will still have to align the head. To adjust the head alignment mount a 1" diameter X 2 to 3 inch length piece of construction grade aluminum in your chuck (do this after you have corrected the spindle run out). Take light cuts for the length until you get a clean cut on the diameter and length. Measure the diameter next to the chuck and at the opposite end. If both measurements are the same then you have good alignment. If the opposite end is smaller then loosen the head twist it counter clockwise and tighten it down. Take a new cut and recheck the diameters. If the opposite end is larger, then twist the head clockwise. Keep repeating the process until you get alignment. There are only two ways to correct the tail stock misalignment: use the Sherline tail stock adjustment attachments, or buy a new tail stock. You won't know the true misalignment of the tail stock until you get the head aligned. Good luck. ------- Re: used lathe headstock-tailstock alignment off -- newbee Posted by: "Tom Trikalinos" ttrikalinx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 6:12 am ((PDT)) thanks to david and joseph for their suggestions. I will follow them and let you know how it works out. best, tom ------- Re: used lathe headstock-tailstock alignment off -- newbee Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 10:04 am ((PDT)) Tom, You should read http://www.neme-s.org/Rollie's_Dad's_Method.pdf and see if it will help you with alignment. The advantage to that method is that is doesn't matter if your chuck is bunged up, so long as it will get a firm grip on a metal rod a few inches long. It should allow you to get the headstock aligned. It will also allow you to check the vertical alignment and decide if there is a problem with that that you will want to address. You may want to check the tailstock alignment at a couple of places on the bed. Repeat your same tests, but shift the tailstock an inch or so each time before the test. This should help you determine if the error comes from bed wear or just from the tailstock assembly itself. Alan ------- Headstock Alignment [sherline] Posted by: "michaeljgardner" michaelx~xxsuptrim.com Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 12:48 pm ((PDT)) All, I've got a fairly new Sherline lathe, and I'm struggling with the recommended method for aligning the headstock. As I understand it, after cutting a test piece one measures the diameter toward the tailstock and near the headstock. If the diameter closer to the tailstock is smaller you need to loosen the headstock and twist it counterclockwise and then screw it down to hold it. If the diameter closer to the tailstock is larger, same thing, but you twist it clockwise. My issue is this, aren't we asking a lot from that little allen-head screw that holds the head in place? My sense is that it's forcing the headstock up against the key and maybe causing it to lean a little bit. Probably the first time one takes a heavy cut, the head moves back where it was. Anybody have a solution for doing something with the key? Thanks, Michael ------- Re: Headstock Alignment Posted by: "Joseph Bautsch" joe.bautschx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 2:11 pm ((PDT)) Michael - I have a brand new Sherline long bed lathe. The key is milled to fit that head and bed. There is no movement either clockwise or counter clockwise. The alignment is dead on. If you have a brand new lathe your key, head, and bed key way should have been custom fitted at the factory. A "fairly new" lathe may or may not have had this custom fitting job. Don't sell that little allen head screw short. There is a lot more than that allen head screw holding the head in place. The design works like a vice with the head being pulled down on the base to lock it in place. What holds the head is the locking action between the head and base and not the allen screw. The key is only for alignment it does not hold the head in place other than maintaining alignment. If you remove the allen screw you will see that it has a cone shape. If you look at the bottom of the head, there is a stud with a bevel cut in it. The cone of the allen pushes into the bevel forcing the head down on the bed. This vice grip action is very effective in locking the head in place. ------- Re: Headstock Alignment Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 2:20 pm ((PDT)) True. See http://sherline.com/InstVol6.pdf page 9 for a description of how the headstock mounting works. DC ------- Re: Headstock Alignment Posted by: "Joseph Bautsch" joe.bautschx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 2:49 pm ((PDT)) On Mon, Jun 8, 2009, michaeljgardner wrote: > Joe, Okay, I guess I really didn't understand the interaction between > the allen head and the headstock being pulled down. > I got my lathe about 10 months ago. Looks like maybe I didn't get > the new design. Thanks for your reply, Michael Michael - I don't know when Sherline started the custom fitting of the key. My machines are only 90 days old; lathe and mill came with a warning not to mix up the keys because each key was custom fitted to that machine. Leverage is the answer. That small allen screw cone applies a small amount of force on the head stud bevel and that force is multiplied hundreds of times over the two faces of the head and bed. That's why you can remove the key and set the head at different angles to the bed lock it down and it won't move. ------- Re: Headstock Alignment Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 7:52 pm ((PDT)) Jim Ash wrote: > I've toyed with mounting an extension bar off the left side of my headstock, to mate up with a fixed bar on the end and some kind of finely-threaded screw in between the two bars to allow a much more fine adjustment of the headstock angle. < Jim, Check the pictures in the picture section titled "Alignment Widget". They will show a fixture that can work with either the lathe or the mill to aid in aligning the head. Alan ------- Re: Headstock Alignment Posted by: "Joseph Bautsch" joe.bautschx~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Jun 9, 2009 5:59 am ((PDT)) Jim - Instead of trying to mount a bar to the head and inventing a finely-threaded screw system, you can use the one already built into the lathe. If you need to shift the head over a very small amount, say .0002" you can use the the piece of rod mounted in the chuck and the point of the cutting tool. Bring the point up to the rod so it's just touching. If you need to move the head clockwise, use the .001" markings on the cross slide handle to back it off from the rod .0002". Loosen the head and move the head clockwise until the rod touches the tool point, lock the head down and take a new cut on the rod. For counter clockwise, just reverse the process. You may have to go through this process more than once but it will give you the alignment accuracy you are looking for. ------- Re: Headstock Alignment Posted by: "Jim Ash" ashcanx~xxearthlink.net Date: Tue Jun 9, 2009 6:46 am ((PDT)) That's pretty much what I do now. The two things I don't like about it are that you need to set it up where the work happens, so it's not easily repeatable, and you're still down to manually moving the headstock for the fine adjustments. I tend to overshoot or undershoot these types of fine adjustments, which probably causes me more iterations than most. I just went through this same thing setting a fine angle on a jointer last weekend and it probably took me six hits to get the $$^& thing to within a degree of what I wanted. Overkill for woodworking, true, but that's what happens when metalworkers play with wood. Jim ------- Re: turning threads [sherline] Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Thu Jul 9, 2009 3:02 pm ((PDT)) "Pete Johnson" pappy50x~xxcox.net wrote: > I have the Sherline thread cutting attachment and have a limited need to cut left handed threads(thighen counter clockwise). Is there a simple method to do this? FYI it is for the left side of an R/C car's wheels. Thanks. < Sure, Pete, just follow the directions for the attachment. If you don't have them handy, they are on-line at the Sherline site. Basically, what you have to do is add an idler gear into the train to reverse the direction of lead screw's travel, then turn the handle backwards. Be sure your chuck or collet is on the spindle tight. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: turning threads Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am ((PDT)) Pete: The only really tricky part is that you need to start the thread near the chuck and work outward. What you need to watch for is backlash. When you reach the end outward, you need to move the crossslide out to provide clearance for rewinding to the start. You then need to crank backwards to get back near the chuck and the start of your thread. Then, BEFORE feeding the tool in to make the next pass, you need to crank just enough forward to remove the backlash so the cut will be in the same place as the previous one. Alternatively, once you have rewound to the thread start, you can use hand pressure on the carriage to take out the backlash. Without doing this, the innermost end of the threads will be just a bit messy. Given that you are threading an axle, you may not be able to use a common carbide tipped threading tool but will need to grind one out of a HSS tool blank. In that case, you will want the angle on the left side of the tool to be just enough for the depth of thread while the right side is really ground down. The idea here is to get the point of the tool as far to the left as possible so it doesn't jam up on the slight shoulder of the axle. Alan ------- Problem with tensioning drive belt [sherline] Posted by: "wandrson" wandrsonx~xxwalteranderson.us Date: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:25 pm ((PDT)) I've just received a new sherline lathe a week ago and have noticed that the motor/belt keeps squealing. I've loosed the cap head screws and pulled the motor tight while tightening the screws again. After some interval (from a few minutes to maybe a half hour) the squealing will start again. Is there some trick to putting the correct tension on the drive belt? Walt ------- Re: Problem with tensioning drive belt Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:36 pm ((PDT)) Walt, Isolation is the key. Take the belt off. Run the motor. Is there squealing? If so, Maybe a bearing problem. If not, put the belt back and; General rule of thumb on belts and tension. About halfway on the span of the drive belt, gently depress the belt. Should be some give, maybe a 1/4" or less... Too tight a belt can damage the bearings due to the side pull.... Other than the tension, a smidge ( small amount ) of belt dressing might cure the squealing if it is due to slippage.... Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Problem with tensioning drive belt Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:35 pm ((PDT)) Walt: Make sure that the top cover on the speed controller does not contact the top of the belt when the belt is moving. If it is contacting, it will give an ear bending screeching sound. You can adjust the two motor bracket screws to keep the edge of the plastic cover off of the back of the belt. Hope this may solve your problem, Leo ------- Slipping leadscrew, Sherline lathe [sherline] Posted by: "Fox Charles" cafox513x~xxverizon.net Date: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:02 pm ((PDT)) I've had a problem of confidence with my Sherline lathe for quite a while now. I doubt the handwheel at the tailstock end is gripping the leadscrew well enough. The crosslide has too much play, in my estimation. I can make up for play, but when I'm trying to machine a piece somewhat heavily from directly in front, the cut wanders (always of course in the wrong direction). Would it be advisable to try to machine a flat right down through the notch that is in the leadscrew end? How can I tell if I have to replace the whole leadscrew, rather than just the handwheel? HALP! Fox Charles ------- Re: Slipping leadscrew, Sherline lathe Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:53 pm ((PDT)) Charles: It might be that, more likely than not, that the threaded portion of the bore on the aluminum shaft collar portion of the handwheel is worn. As a temporary measure, blue or even red loctite might help. Machining the flat deeper on the end of the leadscrew won't help. There are two solutions, using the current parts, to eliminate the problem. 1. Remove the setscrew, drill a 3/16" hole trough the hand wheel, the shaft and the other side of the handwheel's collar, and drive in a tension roll pin to lock the entire unit together. 2. Spot drill the flat on the leadscrew shaft. Remove the leadscrew and drill through the flat on the shaft with a #21 drill. Thread the hole with a 10-32 tap. Repace the oringinal screw with one 3/8 inch longer and you're done. Either method will mean that the handle will NEVER slip again. Regards, Leo ------- Interesting Tidbit question? [sherline] Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:40 am ((PDT)) An intereting question: Why did Harold Clisby choose 55 degrees for the taper of the bed of the Sherline lathe, instead of the standard 45 degrees of most others? Leo ------- Re: Interesting Tidbit question? Posted by: "JimD" jdantinx~xxbellsouth.net Date: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:02 am ((PDT)) >From the Sherline website: "*NOTE: This dimension was determined by measuring the extruded bases that were supplied when we first took over production in the USA from the former Australian manufacturer. The base and several other parts were cast to match this angle and it was not economically feasible at the time to change it to an easier-to-manufacture 60 degrees. The original 55-degree angle was determined by a reference to Machinery's Handbook, Vol. 17 as the ideal angle to cut a dovetail. When we took over production, a fixture was produced in-house to duplicate the existing angle which had changed slightly from the original 55° to an actual 55.5°. This fixture became the "standard", and every machine built since the early 1970's has been measured against this same fixture. The older brass beds and the current steel beds as well as the parts that fit them are all ground to this same angle." ------- Re: Steady or Follow Rest? -- Upgrading Same [sherline] Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:50 am ((PST)) "Thayer Syme" thayerx~xxgryffinaero.com wrote: > So with very little input, I bought on price. I now have the Steady Rest in the house, and have a question about the desired condition of the blade faces. I had assumed that they should be polished to a smooth finish, but when they arrived, the blade faces were so far away from polished that I have to assume there is some reason for them to be rough. The ends look like they were rough cut with a coarse saw, and then polished or tumbled just enough to knock off the sharp edges. If the consensus is that the blade faces should be rough, in what direction should the ridges be aligned? Parallel to the lathe spindle axis, or in line with the motion on the part surface? Thayer < Thayer: Good choice. I originally thought of getting both rests, but I got the steady and have never found the need for the follower. As for the brass finger ends, I semi-sharpened mine on one end, down to about an eighth of an inch with 60º angles, so when they close up, they close up tight. That lets me hold very small diameter pieces. On the other end I squared them off for use on larger stock. Then I used a piece of 1/4" X 3/8" brass, cut down to 1/4" square on the shank, and three of custom made screws with enlarged thin heads and a shoulder on the shank to hold three small ball bearings. For most purposes, I just leave the ball bearing in the rest. But having purchased the steady rest, I would recommend doing a tune up right away. My next order to Sherline will include a request for a new steady rest body. The body is cast, and the metal used is not as strong as the aluminum from which most Sherline parts are made. Three of the screw threads on mine have stripped. When the lathe way clamp thread stripped, I drilled the hole deeper and then used a 10 - 32 bottoming tap to thread the hole as far as I could. After doing so, I put a long screw in the hole with the clamp piece in place, then measured the length needed, and replaced the original screw with a new custom length piece. On the clamping screws for the brass fingers, I drilled the holes all the way through the casting, retapped the holes, and again replaced the screws with longer ones. On the one that was done preventatively, I have had no problem, but the ones that had stripped originally have stripped again. The new cure was to put 10-32 flange nuts on the back side, but this is only a temporary cure as it requires more fiddling to lock the fingers in place. Meanwhile, I have had no further problems with the lathe way clamp, so I think a longer screw from the get-go will keep it in business permanently. Also, by drilling that hole as deep as possible and threading it all the way, I am able to consistently open that clamp enough to put the rest on the ways without the clamp part falling off, something that was a problem before. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Steady or Follow Rest? -- Upgrading Same Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:00 pm ((PST)) Tom: In future, think "Helicoil inserts".... Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Squaring the Lathe Headstock Posted by: "Marcus" marcusx~xximplant-mechanix.com Date: Fri Apr 9, 2010 8:40 am ((PDT)) [in response to someone concerned about Sherline lathe setup] Do I understand correctly that you are attempting to determine headstock alignment by turning a test bar between centers? You can't do that on a Sherline...the headstock swivels on these machines, so your test shows nothing about the co-axiality of spindle to ways. You need to mount a test bar that can be clocked in without outboard support, and align the spindle to the ways using the DTI readings. The tailstock center is then aligned using the adjustable center provided by Sherline for those who need to get high precision alignment. As a further test,(albeit one that doesn't address the flex in the system), is to chuck up a sacrificial bar and take a light pass with a razor sharp tool, miking the bar after it's cut as you've done, but NOT between centers. Chuck it in the 4 jaw, and don't get too ambitious with the length of the test bar... about 3" is your limit unless you've made a bar with a Morse tapered end that can be cinched into the headstock spindle with a drawbar. You want your DOC to be 0.001" or less for this test, and you need to take a lot of spring passes, marking the bar with felt pen between cuts until you're SURE you can take no more off without re-setting the cross slide. Regarding the keyway alignment provided by Sherline...it's adequate for most short turning, but not perfect by any means. This is not a slur on Sherline...the construction quality is excellent for what it is, but you must remember it's a rotating headstock machine, so it's intrinsically more versatile but less accurate unless it's set up precisely. If the keyway alignment is truly miles off, you should contact Sherline to address this...their customer service is first class. Regarding the key itself, if you examine it closely, you'll find it's 3/16 keystock ground parallel on two faces, so it, and its corresponding slot in the headstock and ways will be undersize. The key should be a push fit if you orient it so the ground surfaces engage the sidewalls of the slots. If the clamp screw makes the headstock turn, you have a problem within that subsystem...most commonly the pivot shaft is not free to move and there's a dimple in it from the pressure of the screw always bearing in the same place. Remember, you don't need to reef on this screw...snug is good enough. Cheers Marcus www.implant-mechanix.com ------- Re: Squaring the Lathe Headstock Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:38 pm ((PDT)) Adam Collins wrote: > Marcus, When I removed the headstock to install the threading attachment, I did notice that my pivot pin was loose (not securely tightened to the ways under the headstock) but I didn't think anything about it at the time, being the first time I had the headstock off I didn't realize it wasn't supposed to be that way. I'll have to fix it before I try any more tests... < Adam, It's supposed to be loose until you tighten the cone point set screw which draws the pivot pin up into the head. See: http://sherline.com/setupins.htm Quoting from about the middle of the page: "Mounting the headstock to the lathe or mill You may notice that the post onto which the headstock mounts is a loose fit where it projects from the lathe bed or column saddle. This is normal, and the diagram below will help you understand how it works. The screw in the front center of the headstock has a cone point. The pivot pin has a tapered slot with a corresponding angle. When the screw is tightened, its angled face engages the groove and, because the pivot pin can not come up, it draws the headstock down into position, clamping it into place. If the pin were rigid, it could keep the headstock from pulling down squarely." It's really important to read and understand all of the instructions that Sherline supplies on their website. First, read everything. Then, if something is not clear to you, ask here. Trying to defeat the intent of the design without understanding how it's supposed to work can lead to bad things happening. David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: Squaring the Lathe Headstock (OT) Posted by: "Harry Brill Jr." proaudioguyx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:06 pm ((PDT)) The pivot pin IS supposed to be LOOSE. This is a common misconception. Marcus knows this so I think you misunderstood. If you fix it, you will be actually damaging it. Harry Brill Jr. ------- horizontal milling on a lathe [sherline] Posted by: "kinda_christoph" kinda_lingersx~xxrocketmail.com Date: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:09 am ((PDT)) Hi, I want to do some very simple milling on a lathe. I don't have the vertical milling attachment and don't have the money for one. All I want is to be able to attach a workpiece to the crosslide -- in some kind of vice? And turn the piece manually. Basically I think I need some kind of mini vice? Any suggestions would be welcome. thanks, christoph ------- Re: horizontal milling on a lathe Posted by: "Alan Marconett" KM6VVx~xxSBCglobal.net Date: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT)) The cross slide has T-slots, get some 10-32 threaded rod, and make some straps to secure your stock. Two straps with holes to accept the threaded rod on each end should do it. You might want to put some sacrificial stock under the part to be machined. Alan KM6VV ------- Re: horizontal milling on a lathe Posted by: "Alan" alanhyx~xxlive.com Date: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:56 am ((PDT)) Don't forget to get a few extra t-nuts. Then, as Alan M says, you can block up the piece. With some reasonably hard wood blocks, some MDF, and some aluminum flashing sheets, you should be able to position your desired workpiece pretty well. The straps can be either metal or wood although I'd tend to go with metal. Look at steel and aluminum strips, etc. in many hardware stores. Mostly you want to block up under the work with stuff that won't really compress much. Good luck. Alan ------- Re: horizontal milling on a lathe Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:00 pm ((PDT)) More suggestions: Snug up on the gibs... Do NOT climb mill... Jerry G (Glickstein) -------- Re: horizontal milling on a lathe Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm ((PDT)) Just to be sure you don't do damage to yourself or your machine; bear in mind that for milling with an end mill you need an end mill holder with a set screw to lock the end mill in place. Also, when you tighten the set screw, just before it tightens up give the end mill a little tug out from the headstock. The spiral cut of the end mill gives it a tendency to pull itself into the work. Never consider holding an end mill in a lathe or drill chuck. Long, long ago I had to learn this the hard way. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: horizontal milling on a lathe Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:58 pm ((PDT)) Tom, I will add a little reminder to your excellent advice. When you (or anyone) "gives the little tug", don't grab the end mill teeth directly. They are sharp! or should be. Regards to you and Judy too. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: horizontal milling on a lathe Posted by: "kinda_christoph" kinda_lingersx~xxrocketmail.com Date: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:25 pm ((PDT)) Ok thanks, damn this is going to be more expensive than I thought! thanks all, christoph ------- Re: Oiling 4400 lead screws. [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:16 am ((PDT)) "Bill" wrote: > I have added a 4400 Lathe to my CNC shop.I find it very difficult > to reach the lathe's lead screws to oil them. The lathe is attached to the base only by two #10 capscrews. Remove the head and motor assembly by loosening the cone point set screw. Take the lathe off of the plywood, or whatever you've got it attached to. Turn it upside down, resting the bed on a couple of wood blocks tall enough to clear the tailstock. Remove the two capscrews, and set the base aside. Now you have full access to both lead screws and dovetails. Lube with Sherline's PTFE grease. http://tinyurl.com/c4ge3h This is one reason I have my lathe attached to steel bars, instead of a sheet of plywood. http://tinyurl.com/3x358ya And, no, It doesn't flex. (Hint, neither does the Z axis of the mill, which isn't bolted to anything at the top.) The whole procedure takes only a few minutes and does not involve any realignment or other adjustments. David Clark in Southern Maryland,USA ------- Re: Oiling 4400 lead screws. Posted by: "Rhys Fastiggi" rhys1x~xxfastiggi.com Date: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:42 am ((PDT)) I used the super lube for a long time and it works good but I find that the white lithium grease works better. Stays on (coats) the screws and ways much better and helps reduce corrosion better as well. If I use the super lube it will rust after a couple of days. I don't get any corrosion with the lithium grease. I still use the super lube for my chucks however. It really is great stuff. You can get the lithium in both tubes and spray. Rhys ------- Re: Head and tail alignment [sherline] Posted by: "HB" scfpigsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Oct 3, 2010 2:42 pm ((PDT)) Hi All, I just got my used Sherline 4000 a few months ago and after reading the comments on this particular thread about tailstock adjustment, it just made me wonder if the one installed in my lathe is really an original one. My tailstock does not have any gibs, adjustment bolts like what some members here seem to be talking about. It just has a dovetail bottom fitting the bed and a longitudinal split in the middle that could be tightenend by way of tightening a crossbolt from the front side. It also has a thumb screw to lock the tailstock ram from moving. The serial number on my lathe is 245xx. Is this a very early version that's why the tailstock is non-adjustable unlike what others are describing in this thread? Thanks, HB ------- Re: Head and tail alignment Posted by: "wanstevex~xxymail.com" stewanx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Oct 3, 2010 8:45 pm ((PDT)) Hi HB Not to worry! Your tailstock is original. That was the design in early Sherline tailstock. Mine is exactly similar. This design was changed in 1996 with the front extention, then followed later with a brass gib of today. Never a problem in use except for fine parallel turning that needs some offset adjustment. See my album, upgraded with a Cowells tailstock (Steve's workshop-S'pore). Hence I have the option of choosing general turning jobs using the old and Cowells for fine work. I have both Sherline mill/lathe since 1995. Regards, Steve-S'pore ------- live center [sherline] Posted by: "Reid" reidsimx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 2:06 pm ((PDT)) I am looking for live center. I was not sure which one should I get one. Sherline has three different models. 2106 8mm Live center, 2107 10mm live center and 1191 Bullnose live center. I want to know which one do you use the most? Reid ------- Re: live center Posted by: "ransome michasiow" ransome_dukex~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 2:18 pm ((PDT)) REID, I think the one you want is part 1191 live center, that's the one I use for general work. Ransome ------- Re: live center Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 2:22 pm ((PDT)) Reid: Unless you are fitting the live center to a watchmaker's lathe you do not need either 2106 or 2107. If you are trying to fit a live center to the tailstock of a Sherline lathe you need either 1191 or 1201. Martin ------- Re: live center Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 3:15 pm ((PDT)) Reid: Based upon your mention of the bull nose live center..... I believe you want the live centers for the tail stock. Live centers, IMO, are always getting into the way, especially if you are using a QCTP but, I use a live center and complain. For the tail stock, the "standard' live center parts number is 1191. I also recommend the Tail Stock Spindle Extender, part # 1220. And while I am making recommendations and not spending my own money, consider the "adjustable tail stock live center", part # 1201. Finally, to discuss the bull nose live center..... part #1182. Sometimes, the hole in the turned stock is too large for the standard center or live center, that is where the bull nose live center comes in. In theory the bull nose can be used in hole a bit more than 1.5 inches. Soooooooooo, bite the bullet, buy part # 1191, 1220, 1182, 1201, in order of priority. Okay, I've had my say. Let's hear from others after all, according to my standard disclaimer.... What the *ell do I know. DanD. ------- Re: Thread Cutting Attachment - February Special [sherline] Posted by: "Charles" charlesdewenx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:52 am ((PST)) I found I thread parts often enough that I went and bought a second lathe (short bed, no motor) and keep it set up for threading. A couple of observations: To get a bit more room in the geartrain, someone long ago recommended getting a second 127 tooth gear and I found it a good suggestion. For any combination (most, up to 40 TPI) calling for A=100 B=100, you can substitute A=127 B=127. If you're real careful, you can take the part off the lathe, try it for fit on something, then remount it to continue threading. It's easy enough to just take the chuck off (with the piece still mounted) and then remount it. I have successfully taken parts out of the chuck, tried them for fit, and then rechucked them to continue. Put an index mark on the part and one of the jaws to realign everything....and see the next suggestion if you forget. I keep a compound slide on the dedicated threading lathe. If you have a part where some pre-existing threads have been damaged, you can repair them with some effort. After engaging the right geartrain, run the cutter into the valley of the thread, adjusting the compound handwheel so that the cutter is centered. Note the setting on the handwheel, in case you accidentally bump it! Pull the cutter out of the groove and make a "dry run", watching the alignment of the cutter and groove. If the cutter wanders in the groove, you may be able to shim up the part in the chuck to get the threads square. I use a 10X OptiVisor for this stuff. When cutting new threads, I always set the handwheel on zero, in case of accidental bumps. I keep riser blocks mounted on the headstock and compound slide, since I often am threading 3"-4" parts. Be aware that there are threads that can't be cut with the riser blocks in place. I forget which, but I suspect ones that call for the use of the 50 tooth gear will cause the gears to be mounted too far apart to engage. Every once in a while, I'll notice that the engagement lever is protruding out of its hole. I suspect that happens when I disengage the cutter and run the slide back too fast. Take a look at it now and again. I use cutting oil on the threads, but Dry Slide on the geartrain. Less messy. One last comment, for those still reading, since I haven't seen this mentioned for a long time: if you're retired, you should let Sherline know this when ordering directly from them. You'll get a pleasant surprise ;-) Charley ------- Need help with Tailstock Alignment [sherline] Posted by: "dbarolia" dbaroliax~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:21 pm ((PDT)) Hi - I've got a new 4530 lathe and have been practicing simple turning procedures for the past month (tapers on the compound slide, cut-offs, using t-rest, etc.) I set-up everything yesterday to try drilling using a tailstock-mounted drill and have run into a problem with aligning my tailstock (first time actually using the tailstock). The tailstock was very difficult to move when I first unscrewed the large set screw (the one between the two smaller ones), but I eventually got it to move a bit after I loosened the two smaller screws to its' left and right. I put down some extra machine oil to try to help it move more easily, but it was still really stiff; at least I could move it far enough to try out the drill. The center drill seemed to work okay on a test piece of brass, but when I tried the drill bit, it was pretty apparent that the tailstock wasn't in line with the headstock (I tried to line-up two centers between the headstock and tailstock, but couldn't get the tailstock to move close enough to the headstock to see). Even though I haven't moved the headstock since I first took the lathe out of the box and assembled it, I figured that it must have moved. So I removed it and the key, cleaned everything, put it all back and tried again - no luck. I have the lathe mounted to a thick, wooden cutting board, and thinking that maybe the wood was warped I loosened the bolts holding it in place a bit, but nothing changed. Then I found the two hex bolts under the set screws on the tailstock - I loosened them up, and could finally move the tailstock close enough to the headstock to confirm what I already knew... that they don't line up. I've dug through my manuals and Sherline's website, but I can't find any information on procedures to adjust/set-up the tailstock... all I can find are instructions for using the adjustable tailstock tool holders that they sell. Can anyone give me some advice or instructions on the best way to go about setting up the tailstock? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Dean ------- Re: Need help with Tailstock Alignment Posted by: "danp" danx~xxpines.co.il Date: Tue Jun 7, 2011 10:40 pm ((PDT)) Dean: if the alignment is within the tolerance specified by Sherline then that's it. You can play with shims for vertical alignment but not for horizontal. Beyond that you will need to add the adjustable tailstock items if you want better alignment. If it exceeds the allowed misalignment the first thing I would do is remove the tailstock gib (brass colored part)and make sure to remove any debris. You mentioned that you have already cleaned and re-installed the headstock, so if the above fails your best bet is to call sherline. They give great support and service to all and especially for a new out of the box tool. Regards dan ------- Re: Need help with Tailstock Alignment Posted by: "PapaH" pappy50x~xxcox.net Date: Wed Jun 8, 2011 12:05 am ((PDT)) It is very possible that you are working on the wrong end. There is a bit of play in the head stock and getting it aligned with the lathe bed can be the issue. If you have a test indicator, get a 6" to 8" piece of drill rod and mount it in the head stock chuck. Attach the test indicator to the cross slide and check the centering of the drill rod by rotating it to see that it is centered. Then run the slide from one end of your bed to other and see if there is a variance along the lenth of the drill rod. If it is off then the head stock is not aligned with the bed. There is a little play in the keyway on the head stock that will allow a small amount of adjustment to bring that into better tolerance. Once you are sure the head stock is properly aligned, then check your tail stock. If it is still off, Sherline makes a chuck that can be adjusted in very small increments to give you a more precise alignment if you desire it, and it works well. I use it for wire gauge bits and and have been pleased with the results. ------- Re: Need help with Tailstock Alignment Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Wed Jun 8, 2011 7:30 am ((PDT)) Dean: If you want help on something like this, a first step would be to let us know where you live. There are thousands of members on this list, all over the world. Perhaps there is one - or some - that are closer than you might think. Many times someone in your locale will be glad to come over and take a look to help you get started. After all, we all started as newbies, and many of us have developed skills here in which we take a certain pride. As for the set up of the tailstock, read the directions carefully. There are five screws on the mounting part, as you have already found out. The ones coming up from underneath are there to keep the brass clamp strip straight and to keep it from falling off. They should be just tight enough to eliminate slack so when the upper central screw is loosened the tailstock can slide smoothly. The set screws above those screws are there to lock the lower screws in place by pushing against them - but don't over tighten them. The central screw is the only one that should need to be tightened and loosened to move or lock the tailstock. Then the other locking screw is the one on the side that locks the ram from moving in and out. When turning, the ram should be set and that screw tightened. When drilling, obviously that screw should be loosened, but just enough to allow smooth movement of the ram. If it is too loose there is a certain amount of play in it that you don't want. Beyond that, you say that you removed the headstock and cleaned the mounting surfaces there. That's good. Do the same for the tailstock. Remove the two bottom screws (without moving their upper set screws once you have them set) and then the central mounting screw. Then clean and check the mounting surfaces there, paying special attention to the dovetail and the right angle behind the brass strip, plus the brass strip itself. Make sure nothing is trapped in the corners or on any of the flat surfaces, and that there are no burrs or raised dings. Use a flashlight. Also check the dovetails on the lathe bed where the tailstock was sitting; any foreign matter might stick there rather than to the tailstock. Anything like that will affect the accuracy of the tailstock. Finally, it is possible that the ram hole in the tailstock body was not cut accurately. Possible, but unlikely. The final tailstock test is to mount the tailstock between the headstock and the cross slide. Then with the tailstock ram as far in as it will go while still holding the center and the ram locking screw tightened, run the it up to a center in the headstock, tighten the central base mounting screw, and check the alignment. Then move the tailstock back, wind the ram out about 1-1/4", move the tailstock up again and tighten the two screws, and then check the alignment again. It's very unlikely that the ram hole in the tailstock body would be bored off center, but if a bit of swarf got into the mount of the machining center it could throw the direction of the bore off slightly, and slightly is all it takes. I did have that situation close to fifteen years ago, and I have heard of two others who have had that problem, but three (or even four) bad bores in fifteen years is quite an astonishing record. If you still have a problem after all the above, then that's when the confirmation of an experienced user comes in handy. But even without such assistance, if you reach the point where you are sure that the tailstock is bad, that's the time to call Sherline. If you find that the misalignment is greater when the ram is extended, be sure they understand that. From there, they will tell you what to do. Regards, Tom Bank in Central Pennsylvania. ------- Re: Need help with Tailstock Alignment Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:58 am ((PDT)) Hi Dean: Adding my two cents to Tom's post, here's how I describe the procedure: Loosen the center cap screw and the two set screws on the top. Turn in the bottom two screws 'til they just snug up the gib. This is the gib adjustment. When correct, the tailstock should slide smoothly along the bed with light pressure and have no side play. Tighten the top two set screws to secure this adjustment. This may affect the adustment somewhat, so have a wrench in the bottom screw while tightening the top one against it. Once this adjustment is made and secured, you should not have to touch it unless you remove the tailstock from the bed. However, the brass gib is intended to wear sacrificially in preference to the bed ways. So periodically take everything apart, clean, lube, reassemble, and readjust. The center cap screw is used only to secure the tailstock from moving when drilling or turning between centers. See also Sherline Tip number 30: http://sherline.com/tip30.htm I also second Tom's suggestion about finding someone in your neighborhood. I can show someone more in a few hours than I can type in a week. David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: Checking run out of my ER16 collets [sherline] Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" Date: Thu Sep 1, 2011 4:08 am ((PDT)) In a message dated Sat Jul 16, 2011, wongsterwish writes: > I just had a rather frustrating session trying to finish up the 8 axle for a friend. Just couldn't get a uniform diameter across the 54mm length. The best piece measures 4mm near the headstock and 4.02mm to 4.03mm near the tailstock end. After that piece, I thought I've the lathe in alignment. But this isn't the case. The next 2 pieces are out by as much as 0.18mm! I clean up the lathe, put a 10mm steel rod in the ER16 collet with about 3" sticking out. Did a couple of cut at 0.1mm (0.2mm off the diameter) without the tailstock as support. I get about 0.015mm of missalignment across the 3" length. This is good enough for me. I put in a new piece of stainless steel of 6mm to turn it down to 4mm. Tried a short section of about 20mm. I've about 0.04mm difference at the 2 ends. The headstock end is always smaller than the other end, even with such small amount sticking out of the collet. Could the problem be due to the sets of collets I have? How can I measure its run out? The ER16 spindle was from Sherline. < Wong: Before taking any other action try the following. Take a piece of stock you believe to be constant diameter. If possible, the piece you want to machine would be particularly suitable. Install it in the collet you want to use for this particular machining operation. Fit a dial test indicator to your carriage and run it along the work piece to see if it's running true. To be absolutely thorough run the DTI along the front, back, top, and bottom of the work piece. Make a note of any readings that indicate the work piece is not true to the lathe axis. If the readings on front and back are not zero change from left to right; note if they have the same change in reading at the same points of traverse. Same reading suggests work piece is consistent OD but headstock is misaligned to bed. Different readings require further analysis but suggest work piece is variable OD along its length. If the readings along top and bottom of work piece are not zero, change from left to right but have the same change at the same points along the traverse they suggest the headstock is pointing up or down. Different readings between top and bottom give the same suggestions as those between front and rear. Rotating the spindle during these tests will also provide information about constant OD and whether the collet is holding the work piece in axial alignment with the spindle. Whenever you think you've resolved any issues detected by the above tests, turn your work piece and run the same tests on it. If the headstock and work piece before turning have been verified to be correctly aligned with the bed, and you now get larger diameter at the right end of the work piece than at the left end, it suggests the work piece is flexing. The most obvious cure for this is some kind of follow rest. Any inconsistencies other than larger OD at right end require additional analysis. Just an exercise in logic, hope it helps. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration [sherline] Posted by: "jerry kieffer" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:02 am ((PDT)) Craig Earls wrote: > I was cutting an internal thread today and the gears kept slipping. I > felt like I was going to strip out the thread on the screw that holds > the second arm. It seemed like every three or four passes the gear > would skip and I I had to re-zero the thread. Is there a trick to > keeping the arm from slipping? > Craig, Corona De Tucson, AZ > enderw88.wordpress.com Craig: From time to time this issue comes up regarding Sherline's threading system. When students or others have actually demonstrated their problem, it has always been far to much backlash in the threading gear train. When only the rounded top of one or more teeth engage, they have the leverage to push the arms apart even under lighter loads. All thread train gear assemblies regardless of sherline or not, should have full depth engagement with "Zero" backlash for two reasons. First so that they do not separate under heavier loads and so that the train will have absolute repeatability especially for fine threading. Without repeatability, fine threads will be of poor quality. To assure absolute repeatability for fine threading, the carriage can be spring loaded. With a properly set up stock Sherline threading system, I have publicly demonstrated cutting a 32 pitch worm gear worms in about four passes on a number of occasions with no issues. This type load is far greater than anything encountered in threading. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "Craig Earls" enderw88x~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Oct 1, 2011 8:16 am ((PDT)) This is certainly what my problem was. I will get rid of the backlash and try again. Craig, Corona De Tucson, AZ enderw88.wordpress.com ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:03 am ((PDT)) I added a washer made of newspaper between the anodized aluminum arms... All tendency to slip magically disappeared. ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "ransome michasiow" ransome_dukex~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:13 pm ((PDT)) The SHCS on the support shaft should be tighten only after the gears are engaged. NEXT: Run a strip of newspaper between each set (2) of gears, this will show you how deep the gears are engaging. There should be enough free play for the paper to pass, if not gears are too tight. Ransome ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Oct 1, 2011 9:24 am ((PDT)) Hello Group, In addition: Once I have the threading attachment set up, before I bring the cutter into contact with the work, I always crank the Z axis back and forth the length of the work several times to ensure that all the gears are properly engaged and running smoothly. Then double check the amount of slop in the gear train and adjust as needed. Sherline's instructions suggest not backing off the X axis until the thread is complete, leaving it in contact with the work as you crank the Z back to the start of the thead. I strongly advise against this. Since there is always some amount of spring in the tool and/or the workpiece the tool will drag as you turn the Z back. Instead, at the end of each cut, bring the X out one full turn, crank the Z back one full turn past the starting point, then back to the previous positions plus the next cutting depth in X. This will run out any backlash in each axis and ensure that cutting forces are reacted in only one direction throughout the process. The thead cutting attachment may seem a little awkward at first, but once you get the hang of it works very well. Practice on some scraps before you commit a piece you've got a lot of time in. David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "JERRY G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Oct 1, 2011 9:45 am ((PDT)) Hi Dave, the one turn retraction is exactly what was being done whenever I cut a thread..... I have not got there yet ( Sherline's Threading Attachment.) but I will. I always set the compound at 29.5 degrees * so as to cut on one flank only, until I got close enough for fitting..... ^ = typing about threads with 60 degrees included angle. :) Later, Jerry G ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "psychlingdude" yellowjacket7x~xxfrontier.com Date: Sun Oct 2, 2011 3:39 pm ((PDT)) Jerry G: With all due respect I have to disagree with your comment about a compound set at 29.5° allows only one flank to cut on a thread with a 60° included angle. Both flanks are actually still cutting until you set your compound at 30° or greater. At 29.5° the trailing flank is only removing slivers but it is still cutting. To demonstrate this, visualize the compound set at 0°. At this setting both flanks of the tool are removing an equal amount of material as you advance the compound. Set the compound to 20° and both flanks are still removing material but the leading flank is removing more than the trailing flank. Set the compound at any angle between 0° and 30° and both flanks are removing material with the leading flank removing more than the trailing. The angle of the compound must be set greater than 30° in order for the trailing flank to clear the previous cuts. The rules of geometry dictate this. Rog ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "Ian Newman" ian_newx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Oct 3, 2011 8:09 am ((PDT)) Hi Rog, You are absolutely correct in your description but as Jerry said it is usual to set the compound (top) slide to an angle just less than the theoretical setting. The reason for this is that if the tool is set and advanced so that it only cuts on one flank (the left hand flank), the right flank that is not cut by the tool edge is left with a very poor surface -- each pass of the tool cuts a thin line in the right flank. By making a very light cut on the right flank on each pass the quality of the flank is maintained while having all of the advantages of only cutting on one side of the threading tool. Ian ------- Fw: Re: [sherline] Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "JERRY G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sun Oct 2, 2011 4:01 pm ((PDT)) Hi Rog, all you say is correct, however, that is the way I cut threads for fifty years and got away with it! Any guy ( during my tenure ) did the same thing and it was commonly done, accepted, and not analyzed. We all had parts to produce.... :) Jerry G ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "ED MAISEY" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Oct 2, 2011 10:09 pm ((PDT)) Jerry/Rog, Rog, take a look at this website, scroll down to "A" "B" "C" "D", this might help to explain why 29.5 degrees. http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/threading-on-a-lathe Edmund ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "Craig" enderw88x~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Oct 8, 2011 9:25 pm ((PDT)) I remade the part that frustrated me last week. I had no problems this time. The real problem was that I was cutting much too heavily. That article above was very helpful. ------- Re: thread cutting / gears arrangements [sherline] Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Sat Oct 1, 2011 9:08 am ((PDT)) "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com wrote: > Andy M, IF you do not have a copy of "The Sherline Accessories Shop Guide", (p/n 5327) get a copy. There is a section describing the operation of the threading accessory. In my copy, on page 71 there is an extensive chart listing the tpi and which gear to put on which shaft. I am sure there is also a presentation on Sherline's site too but, I would still encourage you to get your own copy so you can write notes in the margins and highlight paragraphs and sentences, to remind yourself of important stuff. If you try this annotating on your computer screen, soon, your screen will be covered up and you cannot see a thing. LOL DanD. < I got my threading set and my Sherline Accessories Shop Guide quite some time ago, had some problems with thread sizes, called Sherline, and was told that the gear chart had been updated and expanded. Downloaded the new threading attachment instructions and my problem was solved. So if you purchased your threading attachment more than a couple years ago, download the new instructions to make sure you have the latest version. Tom Bank ------- Re: thread cutting / gears arrangements Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Oct 1, 2011 10:17 am ((PDT)) Thanks Tom. Will do. DanD. ------- Re: Threading attachment frustration Posted by: "psychlingdude" yellowjacket7x~xxfrontier.com Date: Mon Oct 3, 2011 9:25 am ((PDT)) Hi Ian: Great description on why the compound is set at 29° or so. Let me make myself clear. I was not disputing the industry standard of setting the compound at about 29°. I totally agree with the theory and have practiced it for the last 47 years. It's more of a pet peeve of mine when I hear "the threading tool only cuts on the left flank". The reason for the 29° is so the tool WILL cut on both flanks as you clearly described. There are a lot of folks on this list who are in the early stages of the learning curve of machining practices that I was mostly directing my geometry lesson to. I'll attempt to be more clear next time. Rog ------- Re: Threading on a Lathe, Manual vs CNC [sherline] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:55 am ((PST)) "hlyingst" wrote: > I just bought a Sherline 4400CNC Lathe. > I know I can buy an encoder and cut threads > via CNC or I can buy the Sherline threading kit. > It looks like using the Sherline kit may actually offer > better control since you are manually cranking the machine. > What do others think? Thank you To my mind, the decisive factor is volume. If you're in any kind of production, it will certainly pay you to automate your threading. For occasional use, the manual threading kit makes more sense to me. I may automate threading someday, just for the fun of it, but already have way too many fun things to do and not enough time to do them. David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: Threading on a Lathe, Manual vs CNC Posted by: "Steve Wan" stewanx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm ((PST)) Hi David. I have the same idea of motorising the thread cutting, but after some serious thinking I would rather stick to manual. Reason being, the cut thread is short and needs very high torque to turn. If I need a longer thread, it will be wiser to buy a long screw thread and cut to size. If you still persist in motorising the cut threading, you can consider converting the auto-feed motor drive that drives the x-axis leadscrew that Sherline has. Steve-S'pore ------- [SherlineCNC] My Sherline CNC Lathe's tail stock won't drill a straight hole... Posted by: "karmannelectric" Yahoox~xxciciora.com Date: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:05 pm ((PDT)) Lots of googling tells me that it's not possible to align the tail stock . My plan is to turn a couple inch "test bar" to confirm that my headstock is in alignment, and then turn a taper on the end the same as what the tail stock accepts. Then run an indicator across this tailstock test bar to see how bad it is, or to see if it's my Jacobs drill chuck, or.... This lathe has maybe 10 hours on it over the past 10 years; I'm frustrated that I can't even drill a straight hole in some round stock. Anyone have any other suggestions for me to figure out what's going on? Thanks for your time, Steven Ciciora ------- Re: My Sherline CNC Lathe's tail stock won't drill a straight hole.. Posted by: "Thomas D. Dean" tomdeanx~xxspeakeasy.org Date: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:09 pm ((PDT)) Look at http://www.sherline.com/1201pg.htm http://www.sherline.com/1202pg.htm http://www.sherline.com/1203pg.htm http://www.sherline.com/1206pg.htm Tom Dean ------- Re: My Sherline CNC Lathe's tail stock won't drill a straight hole.. Posted by: "David Lorenz" dlorenz147x~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:36 pm ((PDT)) In case you didn't realize, the headstock on a sherline can be rotated. Perhaps yours has been adjusted. There is a keyway and slot used to realign quickly and to lock it in place. As for tailstock center height, while not adjustable it is easy to check, just put centers in both the headstock and tailstock and move them to touch. It's OK if the tailstock center is a tiny bit low under no load. Spotting drills and center drills should find their own center (provided some rigidity), (thick stock or close to headstock). Note: Keep tailstock quill as short as possible when starting holes! Adjustable tailstock centers are for extreme precision work and not to correct for gross system misalignment. ------- Re: My Sherline CNC Lathe's tail stock won't drill a straight hole.. Posted by: "Andy Wander" awanderx~xxverrex.com Date: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:17 pm ((PDT)) Hmm-I would say, "It's OK if the tailstock center is a tiny bit HIGH..", but it shouldn't be low, unless the lathe is very worn. Andy Wander ------- Re: My Sherline CNC Lathe's tail stock won't drill a straight hole.. Posted by: "karmannelectric" Yahoox~xxciciora.com Date: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:32 am ((PDT)) Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Yes, I did adjust my head stock. I machined a test bar, and from memory I got it to within half a thou over 2 or 3 inches (not perfect, but good enough to eliminate it as the source of error). Russ Cupan emailed me directly and pointed me to this series of 5 videos: http://youtu.be/HqyqaZ36oMw While a very dramatic modification, I will consider it if I can't find the cause of my misalignment. When I try to ream a hole, I can see the reamer "move" quite a bit to align with the hole, obviously making the hole over-sized. When I drill a hole, about 90% of the chips come out of only one of the flutes (and this is with brand new drill bits). Something has to be wrong... Thanks again, Steve ------- Re: My Sherline CNC Lathe's tail stock won't drill a straight hole.. Posted by: "Stan Stocker" skstockerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:17 am ((PDT)) Hi Steve, The lack of tailstock alignment options with Sherline is a headache for lots of folks. Most lathes at least allow front/rear adjustment. One thing I've seen cause problems that's easy is not gently snugging the tailstock locking knob for slight drag while drilling. Yes, the slight amount of float should allow the bit or reamer a chance to self align with cutting forces. Sometimes theory and practice are the same, sometimes they seem to wander apart. Worth a try, probably won't make a difference in your case unless all your issues are with very small drills and reamers. Sherlines just can't poke #78 holes with a conventional drill chuck and tailstock setup dead center. If you have a small test indicator, you can mount it in the headstock and determine just where tailstock centerline is with respect to the headstock. Rotate the headstock while indicating the interior of the tailstock taper. Repeating with the ram retracted and fully advanced may give interesting results if there is tilt as well as h/v alignment issues. If you have not already done so, you may want to remove the tailstock and check very closely for burrs in the morse taper, and also on the gib and tailstock mating surfaces. I've sorted out several lathe tailstock issues with a gentle pass with a morse taper reamer to clean out crud/corrosion, and small burrs. In no case was I looking to remove metal below the existing surface, just doing a clean up pass. You might also remove and clean under the headstock of your lathe. A very small tilt up or down may not produce notable variation in diameter but can cause all sorts of general alignment hassles. This was the problem with the Sherline lathe I put together from two incomplete surplus / used lathes that has all the parts and some spares when taken together. You can check headstock and bed alignment using "Rollies Dad's" testbar method, but indicate on the TOP of the test bar rather than the front to check up/down tilt. Nice thing about this method is that you don't need perfect morse tapers, test bars and all the rest. Just a nice piece of half inch or so drill rod around 8 inches long and the usual Sherline chuck. It's hard to sort out machine alignment issues until you know just what is out of line, and by how much. Many of the approaches written to handle a specific issue start with the assumption that everything else about the machine is just fine and dandy. Chased my tail more than once trusting that assumption... Stan ------- Re: My Sherline CNC Lathe's tail stock won't drill a straight hole.. Posted by: "timgoldstein" timgx~xxktmarketing.com Date: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:03 am ((PDT)) The issues with the Sherline tailstock not drilling straight are very well known to any long term user. In my mind the problem is there is no adjustability in the tailstock which is unlike the norm for a lathe. Additionally, as you tighten the tailstock on the bed, you will see the alignment change. Our solution is to replace the tailstock with an adjustable version so you can get it accurately on center in both height and side to side (the big problem with the stock version). You can see our upgrade product on our e-store at: https://www.a2zcorp.us/store/ProductDetailNP.asp?ProductID=6055 This effectively does the same thing as Sherline's adjustable parts, but does it by making the post itself adjustable instead of making the adjustment on the adding part so you have to reset on ever item you use. Instead you can adjust the tailstock and then just use the tools you want. BTW, I don't think I saw anyone mention spot drilling first. IF you just try to use a twist drill without spotting, you will virtually always get an off center hole even with our tail stock. You have to spot to get an accurate centerline hole. Tim Goldstein A2Z Corp 3955 S Mariposa St Englewood CO 80110 720 833-9300 M-F 10 - 5 Mountain https://www.A2ZCorp.us/store ------- Threading attachment setup problems [sherline] Posted by: cs2dox~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:15 am ((PST)) Hi all, first message here. Just picked up lathe and mill to build a skeleton clock. The barrel calls for a 12 LH thread. I've followed the directions and here are the problems I've observed and hope you can help. 1) while Installing, when I tighten down the flat head screw on the bed the lead screw does not turn. If I leave it unscrewed, all works fine, but, 2) when I hand crank the opposit direction, the pivot arm moves and disengages the gears. Is this how it is suppose to work, threading in just one direction? Should I use this setup without the flathead screw not tightened down? 3) with the flathead screw not tight, the bed is loose. Thanks Barry ------- Re: Threading attachment setup problems Posted by: bjrbayx~xxsbcglobal.net bentdonut Date: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:32 pm ((PST)) Barry, Since no one else has responded, I will try. I assume the flat head screws are the ones that attach the bed to the base. These screws should be tight and not interfere with the lead screw. Check the assembly carefully to find the point of contact. The Sherline website has exploded views of the lathe and assembly instructions. Check that all the pieces are present and are properly positioned. The bed should never be loose. With a loose bed it is understandable why the threading gears are disengaging. Even when the bed problem is resolved, the threading gears have to be carefully positioned to turn freely without binding or slippage. It would be a good idea to practice a little before you start the work on the barrel. Tim ------- Re: Threading attachment setup problems Posted by: "Tony Zampini" zampini1x~xxcox.net Date: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:27 am ((PST)) Barry, I agree with Tim. The flathead screw must be tight. It sounds like you have one or more parts incorrectly installed in the engage/disengage mechanism. If you look at the instructions that came with the threading attachment, there is a socket head cap screw (SHCS) that comes up from the bottom of the base. This screw must end up in the slot of the “fixed shaft” as referred to in the instructions. Also note that this SHCS requires one washer for a 4400 lathe, and no washers for a 4000 lathe. Before you even put the gear train on the lathe, you should make sure your engage/disengage lever works properly. When engaged, you should be able to turn the leadscrew with the handwheel, and see the end of the “fixed shaft” turn on the left side of the lathe. When disengaged, turning the handwheel will NOT cause the fixed shaft to turn. Once the above works, now you can install the gear train. When you bring two gears together to engage them, be sure to rotate the gears slightly by hand to insure they are fully engaged. Also, there are 3 SHCSs that need to be tightened, and I like to do it in this order. First, with all 3 screws slightly loose, engage gears A and B, and then tighten the SHCS that holds the gear train assembly to the lathe. Next, move the secondary arm in so that gear E engages with both gear C and D. Now tighten the top SHCS to lock the primary and secondary support arms together. Finally, tighten the SHCS that holds gear E. Let us know how you make out. Tony ------- Re: Threading attachment setup problems Posted by: "Donnie" zerodbx~xxbellsouth.net Date: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:30 am ((PST)) Since I have a little experience here, I might can help too. I can just barely remember, but I had to change out my Engagement Shaft extension from Sherline b/c the one I had was causing similar problems. If I remember something about a DRO shaft extension b/c I had the DRO and it needs a slightly longer engagement shaft (that comes with the Threading Attachment kit). If you have DRO, you might have the wrong engagement shaft. Donnie D. ------ Re: Threading attachment setup problems Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:31 pm ((PST)) Barry, You might post where you are located. The Sherline group has over 5,000 members. You might find someone close that can give you personal assistance. Tim is right, but it sounds like you have a problem you shouldn't, something someone with more experience would spot right away. Have you used your lathe successfully to cut stock? Did it have a problem there? When you tried to cut threads, did you back the cross slide out of the cut slightly before backed the handwheel/leadscrew up? The first time I tried to cut threads I used a carbide bit. I didn't back the cross slide out for the return trip because I misunderstood the instructions to always keep the lead screw engaged. As everyone here knows, I broke the carbide bit instantly. And then I broke another. And then it dawned on me that I had to keep the little flip lever engaged, but I had to disengage the cutting bit by backing it up for the return trips. The reason is that any backlash (which is unavoidable) when threading will move the cutting bit out of line with the forward cut. I don't know whether that is your problem. Just trying to help. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Threading attachment setup problems Posted by: cs2dox~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:20 pm ((PST)) I found two problems. 1. Following the directions, I put a little pressure on the fixed shaft to fully engage it while I turned the wheel. Then I retightened the flat screw on the bed, just as the directions state, and that created the problem. I had to pull out the fixed shaft a small bit so that the groove in the fixed shaft was aligned with the flat head screw. Seems obvious now but the lesson is not to follow the directions exactly. 2) for the secondary support arm disengaging I did not have F tightened. Thanks for the response. Now to figure out how to use the thread attachment with the riser blocks. ------- Re: Threading attachment setup problems Posted by: craigl2x~xxearthlink.net Date: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:37 pm ((PST)) If you haven't seen it these are from the "Tips" section of the Sherline website. TIP 11--Thread cutting with a riser block/Ron Lederer Ron Lederer of Clearwater, Florida came up with a simple way to extend the range of the thread cutting attachment so it could be used to cut inch threads when the riser block is in place. (Because of the larger diameter of the 127-tooth gear, metric threads can already be cut with the riser block in place.) Just use two optional 150-tooth gears in place of the 100-tooth gears (A and B). These larger gears do not come with the thread cutting attachment, but can be purchased as P/N 31510 at a price of $25 each. With this arrangement you will be able to cut threads from 40 TPI to 20 TPI, right or left hand. You can also cut right hand threads down to 10 TPI. Another way by Douglas Swink Douglas Swink of Arkansas says he was able to use his threading attachment with the riser blocks in place by purchasing a single extra 127 tooth gear. By using two 127 tooth gears in the A and B positions to drive the geartrain instead of 100 and 100, the larger size gears accommodate the additional height of the riser block. The cost of a single extra 127-tooth gear is just $15.40, which is much less than the cost of two 150-tooth gears. Craig ------- Re: Threading attachment setup problems Posted by: "Tony Zampini" zampini1x~xxcox.net Date: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:38 am ((PST)) OK, I tried to recreate what I did several years ago, where I used the threading attachment with the riser block, without buying any extra gears. I set it up last night to refresh my memory. It turns out that you can get gears A and B to mesh with the riser block installed, but it just barely makes it. The swing arm ends up very close to the spindle shaft, preventing the large threading attachment handwheel from fitting over the spindle shaft. So I ended up not installing the large handwheel, and turning the spindle by hand by using a wrench grabbing on to my workpiece. This obviously is not a preferred way to make threads, but it worked for me, and got me out of a big jam. I uploaded some pictures of the part I made, which was a cleanout cap needed to replace one that I broke while plowing snow in my aunt’s driveway. Unfortunately I didn’t take any pictures with the threading attachment installed. Tony ------- NOTE TO FILE: Yes this was about a Taig mill, but it also contains a tip for aligning a Sherline lathe's headstock. (Lots of folks have a mix of Taig and Sherline equipment.) Re: Taig CNC mill [taigtools] Posted by: editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com mrehmus Date: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:54 am ((PST)) I've uploaded (I think) a column clamp that will keep it from moving. Not hard to make but before I'd use it, I'd clean off the paint from the periphery of the two steel disks. It is a 3D PDF so you may need the 'real' Adobe Reader of a recent vintage. Once the column is trammed, tighten this clamp using a torque wrench to max torque on the screws. Then, if the column is slightly off, use a non-marring hammer to put it into alignment. Hammer? Hammer? Yup, that works very well as the joint will slip way before any damage occurs (and you wouldn't whack it that hard anyway, right?). This is the alignment trick with the Sherline lathe. If you cannot get it to cut a cylinder, tap a bottom corner of the headstock with a hammer. Works perfectly. If the clamp PDF doesn't show up, I'll e-mail you one. Just send me a message by clicking on Reply to Sender at the bottom of the e-mail from Yahoo. The file is called Column Clamp.PDF ------- Joe Martin, Sherline's owner died yesterday, 2/12/2014 [SherlineCNC] Posted by: choochoomikex~xxgmail.com mr_mike_lucek Date: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:46 pm ((PST)) Joseph H. Martin December 3, 1934-February 12, 2014 It is with great sadness that we announce the Sherline’s owner Joe Martin passed away February 12th, 2014 from heart-related problems. He was 79 years old. His trust specifies that his current management staff and experienced employees will continue to operate the Sherline factory and support its customers. Between them, Foreman Karl Rohlin, General Manager Charla Papp and Marketing Director Craig Libuse have a combined 112 years of experience working with Joe at Sherline Products. Joe’s far-sighted management of the company leaves it in very sound financial condition and with a clear direction for future product support and development. You can count on us to continue his tradition of making a high quality product here in the USA and offering the best possible customer support. Joe’s non-profit foundation supporting metalworking craftsmanship will also continue to be funded by profits from Sherline tool sales as he intended. —Karl, Charla, Craig and the Sherline office staff and production craftsmen ------- Re: Joe Martin, Sherline's owner died yesterday, 2/12/2014 Posted by: "Tony Zampini" zampini1x~xxcox.net tonyzlr Date: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:05 pm ((PST)) This is very sad news. I think the Sherline lathe and mill are the reason I got into hobby machining. These elegant, accurate machines were enticing to me, and so I went and purchased my first lathe – the 4400 long bed. Then I got the milling column for the lathe. With just that, I could make almost anything I wanted. Several years after that, I purchased the 5400 milling base, and put the milling column on that. This is what I have now, and enjoy working with them every day. Thank you, Joe, for the machines, and your commitment to miniature machining. RIP Tony ------- Re: Drill Bits - too many choices [sherline] Posted by: "Ken Condal" kencondalx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:43 pm ((PST)) February 14, 2014 On Behalf Of zerodbx~xxbellsouth.net > I am quite overwhelmed with the types of drill bits to choose from. The set that I am using now, well, I can't say that I am 100% satisfied. No real need to mention where I bought them from. I just did not know any better, and a lack of knowledge about bits until I started my research. First, it seems that (unless I am missing something) that the bit set I am using (115) must *not* be more machinist or is some type of what I can very basic maintenance work. My problem with these bits is this: First I use my centering bit (that came with the Sherline lathe). Then depending on the size of hole, I gradually step my way to desired size. Here's the deal. When that drill bit comes into initial contact with the centered hole, I swear it seems as if "one side" of the bit makes contact before the other side, which then causes a lot of deflection. I have tried everything. I even got an adjustable Tail Stock Morse that I can adjust for precise engagement. Still, I know that the bits are the problem. What I am after is a set of bits that "both sides" of bit makes contact at the same time with the initial hole (or am I just way, way off here). I am thinking that I need to find a 118° Split point. Now the research I have done has ended up still empty handed. I see Jobbers (?) why do they call it that anyway? Machine Screw bits (stubs)?, etc... and on and on. I just want a really nice set that will do the best drilling and the drill length is very stiff. It seems as if the ones I am using are way too flexible, plus the fact, as I mentioned seems that both sides of bit are not making contact at same time which is causing me a lot of grief. So far, the maximum depth and width I have needed has been 1/4" at 1 1/4" depth hole or 6.35mm x 30mm (or a #7 works just as well with my application). < Like you, my first few choices on drill bits were disappointing. Now I use 135 degree split point bits and am very satisfied. Like any cutting tool – quality matters. I buy from McMaster Carr. Yeah, they’re expensive, but you get what you pay for. You can buy sets or individually. Now, let me start what will probably result in a debate. I don’t like the Sherline tailstock for drilling. Period. It’s fine for very small bits and shallow holes but once you put a larger bit in (and a 3/8 inch chuck to hold the larger bit) it droops as soon as you extend the ram. Some will say it isn’t intended for large bits but since I do a lot of boring I need to get at least a 3/8 inch hole before I can fit a boring bar. What I do now is use my center drill with the tailstock to mark the center point on the work piece. Then, I mount my drill chuck on the cross slide. I use a Sherline tool holder for boring that has a 3/8 inch diameter hole. I have an adapter with a 3/8 shaft and a 3/4 16 thread that I attach to the drill chuck. I’m not sure if I got the adapter from Sherline or A2Z, but it should be easy to find. This setup is very rigid and won’t deflect. Next I put the center drill in the newly mounted chuck and, under magnification, I align the cross slide with the center hole I drilled in the first step. The height will be correct because the tool holder is made that way. Voila, I’m ready to drill. Since I have a CNC setup, I’ve written peck drilling routines to completely automate the process. I just sit back, clear chips and apply lubricant. Without CNC, you’d just use the Z hand wheel instead of the tailstock hand wheel. This setup is also great for reaming. Have fun, Ken ------- Tailstock quill wobble [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "Andrey Lipavsky" andreyx~xxessexjewelers.com alipavsky Date: Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:28 pm ((PDT)) Does anybody have advice for dealing with the lateral wobble that’s inherent in the Sherline tailstock quill? I’ve asked both the folks at Sherline and A2Z CNC, but neither group has anything to offer at the moment. I can’t be the first person out there who’s run into this issue. Sincerely, Andrey Lipavsky www.EssexJewelers.com ------- Re: Tailstock quill wobble Posted by: jowhowhox~xxyahoo.com jowhowho Date: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:15 pm ((PDT)) I recall someone putting a vertical slit in it, and applying a clamp on the sides. I don't remember where I saw it though. I've never felt the need. ------- Re: Tailstock quill wobble Posted by: "Strtcop1" strtcop1x~xxaol.com strtcop1 Date: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:52 pm ((PDT)) Check tryally Tryally Tech. Sherline Machines FIVE FULL HD He does not speak English in his videos but I have asked him questions by email and he answered in English. Check out the above Tryally video and note his modifications to the tail stock in the video. Hope this helps Ron ------- Lathe Crosslide binding [sherline] Posted by: konecny.devinx~xxgmail.com positrontime Date: Sun Nov 2, 2014 11:56 am ((PST)) I can feed the crosslide in just fine but when I start reversing direction the leadscrew starts binding on the stopper plate, not sure what the actual name is but it is part # 40280 Any ideas to remedy this? ------- Re: Lathe Crosslide binding Posted by: alanhyx~xxlive.com alanhaisley Date: Sun Nov 2, 2014 1:44 pm ((PST)) It's possible that the screw that holds the THRUST COLLAR is loose. When feeding in, the crank is wide enough to provide pressure to hold the collar flat; backing out, however, the collar could cock at an angle and jam the cross slide screw to cause binding. Alan ------- Re: Lathe Crosslide binding Posted by: "Steve Wan" stewanx~xxgmail.com wanstevex~xxymail.com Date: Thu Nov 6, 2014 9:51 pm ((PST)) Hi Kone Aluminium is good at binding at each other. Good for press fit jobs but poor for sliding surfaces. Best way to take the piece apart and clean it well. Use WD40 to avoid binding. I suspect your dovetail alignment is worn out. Re-adjust the gib tighter inwards. Steve Wan ------- NOTE TO FILE: The last is a fine answer except for the WD-40 part, as a non-gumming light oil would be preferred. Yes WD-40 is great for water displacing (hence its name) and temporary rust prevention, but there are much better lubricating oils that won't turn into a sticky mess as quickly. See the Lubricants General file on this site for more ideas. ------- Re: Lathe Crosslide binding Posted by: dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net a3sigma Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 4:22 am ((PST)) Good Morning Group, Bare aluminum on aluminum does have a very high coefficient of friction. All of the aluminum parts on Sherline tools are anodized, which is hellishly hard and has very low friction. Nonetheless, all sliding fits should be lubricated. Sherline suggests their Products: Sherline Direct: 7550 - 3 oz. tube of Super-Lube Teflon (PTFE) grease https://www.sherlinedirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.disp lay&product_id=198&CFID=43148229&CFTOKEN=51149322 Sherline Direct: 7555 - Super-Lube Multi-Purpose Synthetic Lubricant https://www.sherlinedirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.disp lay&product_id=199&CFID=43148229&CFTOKEN=51149322 I use the dry lube anywhere that chips might stick, the grease everywhere else. David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: Lathe Crosslide binding Posted by: patbutlerx~xxcomcast.net appraisalservices2000 Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 12:00 pm ((PST)) Super-Lube is commonly sold in bicycle supply stores in the US, as it’s used by bicyclists for various purposes! Pat ------- Re: Lathe Crosslide binding Posted by: holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 7:06 pm ((PST)) Has any member tried MolyKote Multilube?, Edmund ------- Re: Lathe Crosslide binding Posted by: "JERRY G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 8:53 pm ((PST)) Hi Edmund, not for the Sherline, but I strongly recommend Lubriplate 630-AA. Excellent white grease. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Lathe Crosslide binding Posted by: konecny.devinx~xxgmail.com positrontime Date: Fri Nov 7, 2014 11:05 pm ((PST)) Thanks for the input everyone. I checked the thrust collar, gibs, and re-oiled (I'm a service manager at a bike shop and have plenty of Super Lube). Still had binding. Went out this morning to work on a part everything was fine... If it comes back I'll let you all know. Regards, Devin ------- [SherlineCNC] Concerns about using Sherline riser blocks & sell some accessories a Posted by: "Neng Wang" nengwang689x~xxyahoo.com nengwang689 Date: Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:09 pm ((PDT)) Hello, good afternoon everyone. Just bought the Sherline riser blocks (headstock, tail stock, quick change post)for my lather. It works fine, and I understand that Sherline machines are designed for relatively small work; I only rarely use it for large diameters, mainly used to machine motorGP bike rims. Actually I have 2 concerns: 1. I am too lazy to take off the riser blocks, so is that OK I just leave them on the machine all the time for my normal small work jobs? 2. I read Joe Martin wrote that "the cut blade is not suitable for larger diameters as it will wander or break", the 1/12 motor GP rims are 1.75" in diameter, is there any good way to cut them? I won't cut them very often. [snip] ------- Re: Concerns about using Sherline riser blocks & sell some accessori Posted by: "Ken Condal" kencondalx~xxyahoo.com kencondal Date: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:28 pm ((PDT)) I leave the risers on all the time. Never had a problem. ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------