Here find many useful tips applicable to the Sherline mill, and possibly other similar machines. A Sherline mill or lathe owner will get some useful information by reading the Taig mill and lathe files as the machines are similar enough in size to share some problems and solutions and tooling. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2008 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== From: Flosi Gudmundsson Date: Sat May 20, 2000 9:29am Subject: Re: locking axis on Sherline Milling Machine In sherlinex~xxegroups.com, craig.mazurx~xxn... wrote: > Is there a way of independently locking the x, y, and z axis on the > 5400 Sherline Milling Machine? Doug Briney's book "The Home > Machinist's Hankbook" talks about locking screws and Joe Martin's > book doesn't mention it. I can't find a screw labeled so in the > exploded view. Thanks in advance. The information is there. The locking screws are just called something else. Refer to figure 1 on page 3-2-1 in Tabletop Machining. The locking screws are named: "Column saddle friction adjustment screw", "Saddle friction adjustment screw" and "Table lock assembly". Flosi ------- From: Tom Bank Date: Sun May 21, 2000 4:53pm Subject: Re: locking axis on Sherline Milling Machine The other thing about Doug Briney's book and the early edition of Joe Martin's book is that they predated development of the new column lock nut. If you have an older mill with only the socket head screw that tightens a ball bearing against the column gib, it is worth it to get the upgrade, which works by tightening the locknut (via a built in handle) against the column saddle nut. You could make one for yourself, but to do so you would need either a spare saddle nut (which would actually make two locking nuts) or the ability to cut 3/8" 20 LEFT-HAND threads, internal as well as external (after making the nut -- oversized in the thread length dimension -- you would need to mount it to shave the end repeatedly as well as the mating end of the saddle nut; the objective being to have the lock nut handle swing through the limited arc available and lock against the saddle nut. To cut the required threads, you would need to fabricate an extra part for the Sherline threading set, it doesn't cut 20 threads left-hand as it comes and even MSC doesn't stock 3/8" 20 left-hand taps and dies. The Sherline part kit is a chunk of change, but it is worth it because it contains both the lock nut and a new saddle nut which has been matched for the lock point. The saddle nut also has a small (1/8" ?) ball bearing and spring to keep the lock nut out of the way when not in use. The other two locks are a 10-32 SH screw on the front of the table saddle next to the Y axis screw and a small handle on the left side of the same saddle that presses into the Y axis gib to lock that direction. They don't need the locking strength of the column lock because they don't operate against gravity. Hope this is helpful. ------- From: kr-lei... Date: Mon Jul 10, 2000 11:07 am Subject: Help! My end mill holder is stuck.... on the headstock spindle and I can't get it off! Does anyone have any suggestions? I've already bent several sets of Tommy bars. I fear for the worse... Thanks, Leila ------- From: "Hoeffer, Ty" Date: Mon Jul 10, 2000 11:22 am Subject: RE: [sherline] Help! My end mill holder is stuck.... Try heating the endmill holder up some, this will cause it to expand, then try removing it. If that fails cool it in Ice water, try again. The holder should be SNUG only NOT tight. Ty Hoeffer ------- From: David Goodfellow Date: Mon Jul 10, 2000 11:15 am Subject: Re: [sherline] Help! My end mill holder is stuck.... Leila, I've had that problem and for me the solution was simple. Instead of reefing on the Tommy bar, insert the Tommy bar and give it a sharp rap with a brass hammer. The shock will break it loose where mere muscle won't. At least that has worked for me ... Dave Goodfellow. ------- From: robertf... Date: Tue Jul 11, 2000 3:40 am Subject: New to machining. I just bought a 5400. I read the instruction about tapping( with a hammer) the draw bolt to get the MT out. My concern is will the tapping eventually destroy the bearings? I called the company to get an idea of the torque required to tighten up the draw bolt but I was told "turn it till it's snug". I dont have a snug scale on my torque wrench ;). Does someone has a real value in say in-lbs? Thanks ------- From: Ron Ginger Date: Tue Jul 11, 2000 8:34 am Subject: Re: [sherline] New to machining. robertfx~xxm... wrote: > I just bought a 5400. I read the instruction about tapping( with a > hammer) the draw bolt to get the MT out. My concern is will the > tapping eventually destroy the bearings? I called the company to get > an idea of the torque required to tighten up the draw bolt but I was > told "turn it till it's snug". I dont have a snug scale on my torque > wrench ;). Does someone has a real value in say in-lbs? A Morse tape is designed to be self locking. The draw bolt only serves to pull it into lock. Some Morse arbors, notably on old drill presses, dont even have a draw bolt, they rely on being tapped into place. So just turn the bolt 'snug' and dont worry about the torque. If the bolt head was just a tiny bit larger and knurled you could do fine just finger tight. As to hammering out the center, this also make me very nervous. I dont worry about the bearings, I suspect they will handle it fine. But I do worry about knocking the head out of line, or ruining the threads of the collet. Be sure you leave a lot of the thread in the collect, before you hammer on the bolt, else you can damage the threads. Loosen the bolt only about 1 turn, whack it loose, then unscrew it the rest of the way. Some bigger machines have a captive drawbar such that you can use two wrenches and force the draw bolt out by pressure against the captive nut. I dont see anyway to do that for a Sherline. I flinch every time I whack the end of the drawbolt, but I dont know any other way. ron ------- From: Nhut Le Date: Tue Jul 11, 2000 10:41 am Subject: Re: [sherline] New to machining. Check out Sherline's tips section for my suggestion on how to remove MT tools from the spindle. ------- From: Luis Longeri Date: Tue Jul 11, 2000 10:50 am Subject: Re: [sherline] New to machining. I don't tap the draw bolt, because I ended up with one draw bolt slightly bent. Instead I take out the draw bolt and I tap using a steel bar (wider than the draw bolt so I won't damage any thread). Anyway I don't like the tapping either so I tap very gently while I am holding the morse head tightly with my other hand. Luis Longeri ------- From: "Arnold & Diane Chord" Date: Tue Jul 11, 2000 7:34 am Subject: Re: [sherline] New to machining. From my own experience snug would be as tight as your hand will get it. Possibly from there turn with a wrench 1/4 to 1/2 of a turn, less than than that if you are a power weight lifter. ------- From: Bradford Chaucer Date: Tue Jul 11, 2000 5:10 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] New to machining. Snug, tighten till the drawbar snaps then back off half a turn :-) Seriously you don't need a torque wrench, just tighten with a small wrench "loosely held " in 3 fingers. In other words, don't lean on it, and forego the 24 inch breaker bar! As to "HAMMERING" I use a light tapping hammer, not a framing hammer, or preferably a lead or brass cylinder held (i.e. 1in dia 2 in long or thereabouts) in the hand. Again the goal is a sharp impulse not a blow with a maul! Regards, Bradford Chaucer ------- From: "William Rutiser" Date: Tue Jul 11, 2000 7:24 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] New to machining. > As to "HAMMERING" I use a light tapping hammer, not a framing hammer, > or preferably a lead or brass cylinder held (i.e. 1in dia 2 in long > or thereabouts) in the hand. Again the goal is a sharp impulse not > a blow with a maul! I often use the Sherline "T" handled hex wrench for this. ( Hold the metal part and rap the plastic part on the bolt ) By the way, NONE of the 10-32 hex bolts on Sherline equipment should be over tightened. Finger pressure on the arm of an allen wrench should be sufficient. Bill Rutiser ------- From: area51tats... Date: Tue Jul 11, 2000 6:11 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] New to machining. stop flinching. just loosen the draw bar so that it is only a thread or two loose and give it a nice little tap with a deadblow hammer or brass or lead. that way most of the force will be transfered through the threads into the collet and will not damage the collet or the drawbar in any way. Gerald ------- From: wanliker... Date: Wed Jul 12, 2000 1:15 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] Re: draw bar speculation I have an EMCO mill that uses a special nut and socket head draw bars to release the mill holder. It looks like the Sherline could be easily converted. Items needed: 1. Socket headed draw bar bolt. If necessary reduce the outside diameter of the head to fit the nut described below. 2. Thread the outside top end of the Sherline spindle with an external thread, to suit the size of the spindle. 3. Make a special nut, it is threaded internally for the thread on the Spindle, the nut is closed at one end, (like a pipe cap), with a hole in the cap end to allow an Allen wrench to go thru, that will fit the draw bar bolt, It also needs a set of wrench flats on the outside. To use: Loosen drawbar cap screw, about 1 -2 turns. Place special nut over the top, turning it down until it hits the drawbar bolt, hold the drawbar with the Allen wrench, thru the hole in the end of the nut, use a wrench to turn the nut further down and it will push the drawbar down and release the collet. The drawbar must be held so that it will not rotate when the nut pushes on it. Much harder to describe than to do, and no pounding on the spindle bearings. Note the nut is fairly long, threaded internally, but one end is closed, so it will push on the drawbar bolt, and has a small hole thru it for the Allen wrench, to keep the drawbar from turning. Hope this is clearer than mud, bill ------- From: "Kevin P. Martin" Date: Wed Jul 12, 2000 3:04 pm Subject: RE: [sherline] Re: draw bar speculation A few comments on the "ejection cap" suggested by wanlikerx~xxa... At first I thought a large-sized acorn nut would do the trick, but I don't think the cap portion of an acorn nut would last very long with this treatment. If the thread pitch of the cap is coarser than that of the drawbolt (which it would typically be, having a larger diameter), it is not necessary to restrain the drawbolt's rotation. Even if the drawbolt turns with the cap, you still get a net ejection motion on the MT insert. The original idea was seen on an EMCO mill. However, I think that for the Sherline an extra (semi-permanent) part is required. The shoulder washer which sits between the drawbolt head and the spindle back end has the same OD as the spindle, and would interfere with the use of this ejection cap. I suspect that what you would have to do is (as above) thread the end of the spindle, and install a bushing on the end of the spindle. The outside of this bushing is also threaded to accomodate the cap. The bushing must have a large enough OD to be threaded in a size whose minor diameter is larger than the shoulder washer OD. You then install the bushing before the drawbolt is installed and used. For my first attempt at this, I would probably use a large coupling nut with a stub of threaded rod (brazed?) in place to form the cap, and the bushing would be made from another stub of threaded rod which has been drilled out and tapped to match the thread cut into the spindle. But until I do this, I will continue to whack the thing with a wooden mallet to extract it. Kevin Martin p.s. I tighten my drawbolt until I feel the hard spot. When turning the bolt head by hand, it reaches a point where the slack is taken up and I cannot turn it by hand any more. I then use the wrench; for quite a while (maybe up to 2 turns?) it spins quite easily with the wrench, then suddenly firms up. That's when I stop. Given that I restrain spindle rotation by gripping the pulley, I would not be able to tighten it much more anyway. ------- From: "Marcus & Eva" Date: Wed Jul 12, 2000 11:39 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] Drawbar part 2 >Aw, just smack it! Alan Alan: YES!!! I agree. I've been "just smacking it" for years. I've never had a problem. ------- From: Dave Martindale Date: Fri Jul 14, 2000 6:31 pm Subject: another collet removal idea Along the lines suggested by "robertf", how about using a woodworking bar clamp? The fast-acting type doesn't require turning a screw handle, they often come with soft faces that won't mark wood let alone metal, and you can get any length you want. As long as the soft pad on one end was large enough to cover the spindle nose, I think this would work well. Generally, bearing manufacturers warn that bearings shouldn't be subjected to shock loads, since that can produce flats on the balls or depressions in the races. Does anyone have a feel whether the level of "whacking" used for collet removal is ever enough force to damage the headstock bearings? Dave ------- From: "Les Grenz" Date: Wed Jul 19, 2000 2:43 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] 3/8" end-mill holder... how does it center? From: jasonspanglex~xxh... >>> Hey everyone, I was wondering how the Sherline 3/8" end-mill holder worked, (how does it hold/center the end-mills) and if it is a good addition to the tool box. thanks, Jason <<< Jason - The holder just has a 3/8 hole in it and hold the end mill with a set screw on the flat of the end-mill. Works great. Everyone should have one. I have made my own for oddball shanks like 6mm shanks. Otherwise all my endmills for the Sherline are 3/8. Good to standardize your tooling as much as possible. Regards from Les Grenz & the Queen City of the Rockies. ------- From: Steve Clark Date: Wed Jul 19, 2000 2:13 pm Subject: RE: [sherline] 3/8" end-mill holder... how does it center? That is about all I use for actual milling. I have collets too for smaller shank single ended mills but I rarely use them. I purchased two inexpensive sets of standard 3/8 shank double-ended end mills (two flute and four flute) and they work great with it. The hole in the holder is a close tolerance to the outside of the mill shank which centers the mill. The end mill is then secured by an allen set screw which tightens up onto the flat spot of the end mill. The holder is also great for holding a dial test indicator when doing alignment. ------- Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:58:08 -0500 From: Ty Hoeffer Subject: Re: Re: Problems Fly Cutting [sherline] On Tuesday 20 February 2001, you wrote: >> Question: Where are the locks for the X and Y axes on the 2000 mill? I'm new to all of this stuff and haven't found them yet. Unless I missed it, I don't think that the documentation says anything about them either. I found the lever on the Z axis with no problems. -- Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio << Jerry, Look at the table there the Y axis leadscrew enters the saddle. Just to the Right of the leadscrew is a10-32 CHS that holds the index mark for the table graduations. This is the X axis lock. Just grab an allen wrench & tighten this some ( not too tight now.. ). Also there is a knurled knob to the Left of the leadscrew on the side of the saddle. this pushes the GIB strip in against the Y Axis dovetail efectively "locking" the Y axis. They are not as pretty as the Z axis but they dont wear out as quickly as the Z axis saddle nut lock. Hope this helps. Ty ------- Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:46:46 -0000 From: ssmithx~xxserena.com Subject: new pictures of my accessories [sherline] I have updated the pictures of micro cutoff tool and holder. I also added some pictures of some other accessories I made for the Sherline mill. Go to the File section and look for "microcutoff" Include is a 3 jaw chuck keeper. When using a T-slot adapter with the 3 jaw chuck on the mill you need to prevent rotation. This is a handy device for this. The other device is a bracket to hold a dial indicator onto the headstock without putting it in a chuck. It is made to use a univeral holder and can be used in the up position as shown and lowered by swinging it down. Steve ------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:46:50 -0500 From: ron ginger Subject: Re: Pulley Wheel gavin.Eyrex~xxrsl.com wrote: > While drilling some small holes yesterday the drive pulley on top of > the mill head dropped down and started rubbing on the top of the > casing. I was able to lift the pulley back up into position and all > seems to be OK - or am I deluding myself???? The pulley has a set screw in it, in the smaller pulley, that holds it to the shaft. You need to check and tighten that set screw. Its probably under the drive belt, so you will have to move the belt. Then loosen the screw, position the pulley to have some clearance to the headstock and retighten it. ron ginger ------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:10:31 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Pulley Wheel Gavin: It sounds like the pulley set screw may have come loose. Loosen it up, index the pulley about 90°, return it to the proper height so it doesn't rub on the case and retighten the set screw. The set screw is located in the bottom of the smaller pulley groove, so if your drive belt is in that groove you will have to first remove the belt to get to the set screw. The reason for rotating the pulley so the set screw tightens on a new part of the spindle is so that you don't pick up the old dimple and return the set screw to the same position it was before. Do the same thing when readjusting handwheels to remove backlash. Sincerely Yours, Craig Libuse ------- Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:14:09 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: New Member > In the instructions it is pointed out that one can overtighten > the t nuts and distort the slots in the table. What is considered > too tight? I didn't see a torque spec that addressed this. John: A good suggestion came up before on this one. If you use the short end of the hex key and tighten with just two fingers, you probably won't overtighten. Since each setup is differnent, it isn't really possible to supply a torque value that would apply in all cases. Keep in mind the leverage you can apply in a very small area using a 32 TPI thread and a lever arm (hex wrench). A 10 pound force applied a couple of inches out on a hex wrench is a 650 pound force at the tip of the screw. Remember that you're only dealing with 1/3 horsepower here, not 3 HP. The lower loads don't require as much holding force as would be required on more powerful tools. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- [SHERLINE MILL T-NUT SUBSTITUTES] Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:49:21 -0500 From: Tom Bank Subject: Re: T-nuts, was Re: So Many Questions.. >> I have used square nuts on my mill, I did have to grind them down to fit then put a length of threaded rod in and silver soldered. Nice when you are working with bigger pieces. Gary Severson << Yes, that can be done. But what I did was to machine a 1/4" - 20 bolt head narrower and thinner. I cut the thickness down mostly from the threaded side, just cutting away the parts that fit under the lips of the flange way. I use these bolts with similarly threaded flange nuts and various holding bars made from key stock. They have more area to hold in the flanges, so I get a good grip without having to tighten the top nut down too hard. Tom ------- Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 11:03:16 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Re: First project with my new rotary table "I've read several statements by Joe Martin and Craig Libuse that > basically said that there is a limit to the size of operations > that can be reasonably performed on Sherline equipment. " Jerry, We have learned from experience that it is better to understate the capabilities of our machines than to overstate them. If a person's project is too big for a Sherline machine, we tell them they need a bigger tool. It saves unhappy customers later. On the other hand, modelers are the best group in the world at making whatever is needed with whatever equipment is at hand. (Anyone ever see the movie "Flight of the Phoenix"?) We have people like Jerry Kieffer and our own Pete Weiss here at the plant who delight in coming up with setups to make things on Sherline tools just for the additional challenge it offers. I have some photos on hand and was thinking of adding a page to our site called "extreme machining", showing some of these "non-recommended" setups. You can see why I might hesitate to do this, however, as many of these setups are really only safe or effective in the hands of someone who really knows what he's doing. Only someone like Jerry Kieffer would saw off a 12" piece of 3/8" oak with a slitting saw on his Sherline mill when he had a perfectly good table saw at his disposal, but I am sure he gets an extra smile every time he looks at the finished case knowing how it was made. Rather than impress people with how much equipment he has, he chooses to stress how little equipment it takes if one is determined and clever enough. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:51:23 -0700 From: "Wm. Dubin" Subject: Re: Extreme setups Craig Libuse wrote: >> To the group, By popular demand (at least two people asked), I have placed some photos on a new page that show some oversize setups on Sherline tools. One is Jerry Kieffer's oak display box (not the machine carrying box) and the other is Pete Weiss' large steam engine castings. An example of a custom oversize tooling plate is shown on the last one for Mr. Dubin and others who asked. The address is www.sherline.com/extreme.htm. Hope you like them. If anyone has any impressive setup photos to contribute, e-mail them to me offline at craigx~xxsherline.com and I will consider adding them to the page. I can see where a source of setup photos, both normal and extreme, would be very helpful to beginners. A lot can be learned from one photo. There is an elegance to a really good setup that is lost once it is broken down. Everybody gets to see the finished parts, but journey is sometimes more interesting than the destination. Next time you complete a particularly difficult setup, consider snapping a picture of it to share with the group before you break it down. --Craig Libuse, Sherline << Craig: Thanks for setting this page up. Any chance for a more detailed description (or a 'sketch') on the extended tooling plate? Does it have something underneath its furthest "end" to keep it balanced? Something along this line will certainly solve my current problem. Now, any recommendations for how to turn my 14" flywheel? Thanks again, Wm. ------- Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:23:31 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Extreme setups--tooling plate Mr. Dubin: The tooling plate is just two stock Sherline P/N 3560 tooling plates end-to-end. Pete had intended to make a couple of bars that link the two for additonal strength but never got around to it. Since all the machining forces are under the one plate, the other is just holding up the end of the part. In fact, it is only held to the table with two T-nuts. It worked fine. For those interested in the casting, it is from a Morrison-Martin Engine Works kit of the "Meri" engine. The bronze kit sells for about $500 I believe. Pete is documenting each of his setups with photos with the idea of doing a set of instructions on how to make this oversize engine on Sherline equipment. Might be interesting, but it's still a ways off as he has several projects going at once. --Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 03:57:11 -0000 From: n2562001x~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Extreme setups William: In regard to your 14" flywheel. If you have a Sherline mill turn the head 90 degrees in the horizontal position and mount the flywheel however you normally would in the lathe. You can then hold your cutting tool in the vice on the bed and use the mill as a lathe. Take very light cuts and a lot of time. Its slow but it will work if it's the only equipment you have. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:22:17 -0700 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Extreme setups Hi Wm: To machine your 14" flywheel on your Sherline: Bolt it to your turntable. Build a drag bracket to support it close to where the spindle nose of your mill will be. (Make the drag bracket out of Delrin or Teflon, and bolt it to the Sherline mill table.) Stuff in a cutter and have at it. You may need to make the drag bracket a bit springy so it can follow any humps in the rough part. I once machined a 48" dia pulley on a Bridgeport this way. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:23:04 -0700 From: "Wm. Dubin" Subject: Re: Extreme setups Marcus, Thank you. Please explain a "drag bracket"... thats a new term for me. If I were turning C.I. on the lathe, I'de be going very slowly, but using a milling cutter (I suppose you recommend carbide), at what app. rpm would you run this? How deep a "bite" would you take, remembering I need to get below the 'skin' on the first cut. As I wrote Jerry, the 14" was in partial jest with Craig, but I've got a lot of flywheels that are over the 6" size of my Sakai & Sherline..... so this information is really helpful. Wm. ------- Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:20:29 -0700 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Extreme setups Hi Wm: A drag bracket is a chunk of material that will support the casting right at the rim, very close to the cutter. All it does is stabilize the rim against vibration, so it can be very simple and crude. I will sometimes use a chunk of Teflon bolted to a block with only one screw in it so it can pivot. I bandsaw a slot in it a bit wider than the rim, and then stick a spring under one end to make it pivot and take up the slack between the sawn slot and the wheel rim. The teflon is soft enough that it will wear itself in and contact both faces of the rim, but the pivot and the spring allow it to ride over any humps in the casting. If the wheel is cast iron, you should run a 3/8 4 flute HSS cutter at about 500 rpm or thereabouts. The first cut will be hard on the cutter, so use an old one with a spoiled end. You will be dressing the periphery of the rim with the side flutes, so a cutter with the corners knocked off will work just fine. Take about a 0.030 to 0.040 cut initially if you have that much stock on the flywheel. If the casting is pretty smooth and flat, you can dress the top face with the same setup. Then flip the wheel and dress the bottom face. It's tedious, but it does work, and with really big stuff, sometimes it's the only practical way. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 00:54:19 -0000 From: frennerx~xxcolumbus.rr.com Subject: Re: Removng handwheel [SHERLINE LATHE] --- In sherlinex~xxy..., "Arnold Chord" wrote: > I am trying to remove a resetable handwheel from my lathe. > I can loosen the nut but it does not come out of the engraved ring. > It seems the hole is too small. Any suggestions? Thanks Arnold It is too small. If you want to remove the handwheel just back the set screw out until you can slide the wheel off the shaft. The set screw does not need to be removed to do this. If you want to remove the set screw or replace the engraved ring, you will need to remove the small knurled locking wheel and the screw it is on. The threads are knocked over to hold the wheel - you just need to overpower it. Once you do that you may need to run the set screw in a bit, then you can remove the ring, then the set screw. Fred ------- From: wmiller45x~xxe... Date: Thu Jul 12, 2001 1:01 pm Subject: Speaking of squareness Craig (and others); Could you recommend the proper places to shim a Sherline mill? I seem to have a forward cant to my column. I don't like the idea of putting shim stock between the steel column and it's aluminum mounting surface as I believe this reduction in contact surface would decrease vibration dampening and ridgity. Or am I wrong in this assumption? Also, on another thought; I assume that I can get better ridgity in the mill by removing the aluminum spacer behind the headstock thereby shortening the distance between the column and the cutting axis. The problem with this is reduced throat. What if I made a column mounting block that moved the column forward and up so that my vise could slide under the column, thereby giving me my throat back? Should I make that block of steel or aluminum? Bill ------- From: jguentherx~xxv... Date: Thu Jul 12, 2001 1:37 pm Subject: RE: [sherline] Speaking of squareness Bill, I had to shim my column and placed the shims between the column base and the milling machine base. I think mine was a little off before I did my CNC conversion, but after I made and installed my spacer block / Y axis stepper motor mount I needed to put about .002 between the column base and the spacer block / Y axis motor mount to get every thing straight again. My column was slightly canted forward. I don't think the spacer behind the head stock contributes much to any rigidity problems. The only real rigidity problems I have experienced are caused by trying to take deeper cuts than the machine is designed for. Last night I milled a 1 x 1.5 x .75 inch pocket in a block of 1018 steel using a .5 inch end mill with a .375 shank. This was done under CNC control, with light cuts and I completed it with no problems, it just took a while (about 80 minutes of actual machining time). The first time I tried this, manually, I got in a hurry and took some cuts that were too deep for the machine to handle using a 3/8" end mill. The result was a ruined part and some obvious flexing of the column and head mounting. I have also learned that dull end mills will try to wander all over the place and cause lots of rigidity problems only because they don't want to cut when they are dull. John Guenther ------- From: wmiller45x~xxe... Date: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:34 pm Subject: Re: Speaking of squareness Yea, that's where I figured to shim mine, but it's going to be more than an hours worth of work that's for sure. :) I started thinking about my second question (after I posted of course); This won't work as I originally thought. Guess I'll leave the spacer behind the headstock alone. Thanks, Bill ------- From: wjw2000x~xxh... Date: Thu Jul 12, 2001 4:00 pm Subject: Re: Speaking of squareness I tried the shimming bit, and came to the conclusion that the base was not flat where the column was bolted. I ended up milling a flat area there by using a Dremel mounted to a bar clamped the the table. For more on that, see this Web page: http://www.geocities.com/wjw2000athotmaildotcom/current_project.html ------- From: "Craig Libuse" Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:03 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] Mill tooling plate! > } Is is ground flat and paralell from the facroty or should I sqoare it > } up first? The tooling plate is made from cast aluminum plate. Cast is used as it has no internal stresses like extruded material and stays flat when holes are drilled in it. It is machined flat and parallel (not ground) at the factory and the final finish is sanded on a granite plate. As far as I know we have not had a complaint about the flatness of the plates using this process. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- From: Rich D. Date: Sunday, July 22, 2001 7:56 PM To: sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sherline] Binding X axis!! san3x~xxsensewave.com wrote: > The first 5+ cm on my x axis binds like crazy(to the point where > altough it does alow the movement of the table all the way to the > right but the last 5-6 cm is a "whole hand" kind of undertaking) > Anny ideas to what might be causing this, and how I can fix this. > And yes before you ask, I do clean the mill and I oil it religiously > using CPL Break Free. San, Sherline last week responded to a fellow with the same problem on the Y axis. Check the old posts at the sherline-yahoogroups.com web site. Basicly, he suggested removing the handwheel (follow the directions!) and loosen the "thrust" plate that the leadscrew passes thru. There is a socket head screw under the leadscrew. Temporarilly install the handwheel and roll the table up to the plate. Now tighten the screw under the handwheel and reinstall the handwheel being careful to set it back to the original position with the setscrew in the same dimple. With any luck, the lash will be ok and the leadscrew free along the entire length. RichD ------- Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:51:29 -0000 From: buchnerbx~xxyahoo.com Subject: Riser Block for Mill I have a 5400 mill and I was wondering if there was a riser block available for the mill column. By the time you put the rotary table on the bed and a chuck in the spindle to hold a drill bit there is not much room for the part and a drill bit if you want to drill a bolt circle. If I could raise the mill column about two inches it would help a lot. I looked in the Sherline accesories and did not see one. Bruce Buchner ------- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:32:00 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Riser Block for Mill > Yes they do...the block for the head is the same....DL The riser block for the mill and lathe are the same, but I believe the original question was on how to raise the column of the mill for greater Z-axis height. The mill riser block goes between the column saddle and the headstock to give more throat distance, but it doesn't increase the Z-axis height. It would be easy to make a spacer with two holes through it and use longer bolts to attach the column to the mill base much like we do when shortening the column in the P/N 6100 column conversion for use with the horizontal milling conversion. See www.sherline.com/6101inst.htm for a drawing. The spacer would be the same as the column cutoff when shortening the column. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 22:43:30 -0000 From: andrewwex~xxadvantagegroup.co.nz Subject: Z axis Mill SAddle Lock Upgrade (4017U) Quite a while ago I bought this upgrade (the two brass threaded bits shown on the current website) for my 5400 mill XYZ table. It fitted fine, and locks fine. I lock it by moving the lever across from left to right when viewed from the front of the mill. The instructions (which are no longer on the website) imply (at least to me) that the lock will self-disengage when I turn the Z wheel to raise the mill saddle. This seems a sensible approach to avoid digging into work under the mill. However it works the other way on mine - the lever stays locked up if I try to turn the Z wheel to raise the saddle, but self-disengages when I turn the wheel to lower the saddle. I can see mechanically how and why this happens, but 1. it seems wrong that it should work like this, 2. it seems at odds with instructions. Can someone out there set my mind at rest - I'm sure that I've installed it right. thanks & Rgds Andrew Auckland, New Zealand ------- Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 18:20:17 -0700 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: Re: Z axis Mill SAddle Lock Upgrade (4017U) I made the same upgrade, and it works as you describe. The instructions I got with the upgrade said self-disengagement occurs when the Z-axis wheel is turned to move the spindle down. This works for me because it's one less step to take for another, deeper, pass. I don't move the spindle up until I'm through with the operation, in which case I move it up and out of the way. Dave Goodfellow Northridge, CA ------- Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:22:06 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Z axis Mill SAddle Lock Upgrade (4017U) >The instructions (which are no longer on the website)... Dear Andrew and group, You are using the saddle lock correctly. Most cuts on the mill are approached by lowering the cutter into position. The lock keeps the saddle from being pushed back upwards into whatever backlash is present. The instructions are still on the web and can be found at www.sherline.com/2000upgd.htm or www.sherline/4017uins.pdf. They are linked from the accessory instructions page at www.sherline.com/accessor.htm (link in main menu on opening page) and listed under the mill accessories by part number 4017U. In almost all cases I try to name the instructions for a particular accessory by part number followed by the letters "inst" for "instructions". In this case I was posting the instructions for the 2000 mill upgrade package, which included both the column saddle lock and the travel extension. Soon after the 2000 mill first came out we realized it could not be lowered sufficiently to bring a miniature series cutter all the way down to the table, so we added the travel extension to make this possible. We sent one free of charge to all customers who had purchased 2000 mills up to that point and also included at no charge the saddle lock, which had also just been introduced on all mills. That's why the instructions are for both and are labeled with a 2000 part number. The .pdf file is labeled in a more conventional manner. Sorry for the confusion, but perhaps knowing how I name files will make it easier for you to find other instructions in the future without having to look for the link in a long list. When in doubt, first try the part number plus "inst.htm" or "inst.pdf". As a secondary note, I also have my own extension for the "shopping" page that describes a particular product and shows a color photo if we have one. Try the part number plus the letters "pg.htm". For example, if you try www.sherline.com/4017upg.htm you will get the page that describes the 4017U saddle lock and shows a picture of it. There are also links to the instructions from those pages. --Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:23:26 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Bill Smith and gearcutting To the group, A question was asked recently about sources of info on gearcutting. I was reminded by one of the members that I forgot to mention William R. Smith as a source for information on cutting gears, particularly as it relates to clockmaking. Bill Smith has a number of videos and books out including a tape on gear cutting (known as "wheel cutting" to clockmakers), depthing and pinion making. Information on Bill's books and videos can be found at www.sherline.com/resource.htm in the section on "Stuff for Clockmakers". My apologies to Bill (also a member of this list) for leaving you out of my response. (Bill Smith's article on making and using gravers on a Sherline T-rest can be found at www.sherline.com/gravers.htm.) As a matter of further interest, Bill Smith has recently begun using Sherline's P/N 8700 CNC rotary indexer for clockmaking tasks. I am sure you will be seeing some articles in the future on how that item can be of use to clockmakers (or anyone making gears) at less than the cost of a couple of good quality indexing plates. Watch and clock makers are a rather traditional lot when it comes to tools and techniques, so it is with great satisfaction that we see someone of the stature of Bill Smith embrace one of our new products. William R. Smith was selected by Joe Martin and the Martin Foundation for Exceptional Craftsmanship as the "Outstanding Metalworking Craftsman of the Year" in 2000. Bill's official credits include a degree in mechanical engineering as well as FBHI (Fellow, British Horological Institute), FNAWCC (Fellow, National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors), CMC (Certified Master Clockmaker) and CMW (Certified Master Watchmaker). Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:44:23 +1100 From: "Charlie Lear" Subject: Re: [WAS: looking for end mill holders and slotting saw arbor] [ACTUAL SUBJECT NOW IS TURNING OVERSIZED PARTS ON MILL USED AS A LATHE] Wm., I've been thinking about the issue you raised on the model engineering list regarding turning large diameters. The thing about machining larger diameter cast iron is rigidity - you need it. I initially thought about turning the lathe headstock 90 degrees, with the lathe clamped or bolted next to the edge of the bench. This would allow you to swing virtually any diameter, limited only by how far down the far end of the bed you could get the cross slide. However mounting a tool on the cross slide and running it out far enough to machine the flywheel periphery is going to seriously compromise rigidity. So I thought about it some more. If you turn the headstock of your milling machine 90 degrees, you will be able to mount a tool vertically on the mill table (preferably a 7610 carbide tool - the block is extremely rigid) either by clamping the block or by gripping it in the machine vice. Damn, you've got me interested now. I've got a gunmetal flywheel for a beam engine out in the workshop, I'll go and see if I can successfully do what I just suggested. If so I'll take some digital pics and put them online for you. Cheers Charlie Charlie Lear, Melbourne, Australia clearx~xxsteammachine.com Hutt Valley Model Engineer Soc. http://steammachine.com/hvmes Eastern Bays Little Blue Penguin Foundation: same site /penguins ------- Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:18:51 +1100 From: "Charlie Lear" Subject: Re: Re: looking for end mill holders and slotting saw arbor Wm. Dubin wrote: >Thats a great idea...please do follow up with how your attempt has gone. I successfully turned the periphery of an 8-1/2" diameter gunmetal flywheel casting, and trued up a 10-1/4" diameter diecast centrifugal fan impeller. ON A TOTALLY UNMODIFIED SHERLINE MACHINE. Yahoo! Kahlay! IT BLOODY WELL WORKS!!!! To learn how I used a standard Sherline milling machine to turn an 8-1/2" diameter flywheel rim and to true up a 10-1/4" diameter fan impeller, check out: http://steammachine.com/millturn Cheers (bloody loud ones) Charlie ------- Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 07:17:27 -0800 From: "Wm. Dubin" Subject: Re: When Push Comes To Shove Charlie, That's fantastic!!!!!!Wonderful!!!!!THANK YOU!!!!!! To make things even easier, I have the Sherline Horizontal Mill, which has given me a great deal of studio flexiability, as there are times my verticle is tied up with a long-term fluting job. So, it should be no problem to use the Horizontal... and, as it's already set-up and accurate, it should be a straight ahead exercise. Some additional questions: How would you deal with milling and accurately drilling/boring/reaming the hub? When I've done flywheels on the lathe, I use a combination of the inside rim and the hub to locate a potential center, then turn both the outside and the hub plus the rim at this setting. Then drill/bore the center hole, reverse it in the chuck and do the back side. And..... where did you get that nice flywheel casting? Wm. ------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:52:12 -0000 From: "terry6453" Subject: Re: Newbie to Machining and the Group Hi Darren, I am a newbie too :-)) I looked at a lot of small machines and noted that many of the Harbor Freight and Grizzly machines arrived damaged. My Sherline machine came very well packaged and undamaged just like they really read UPS's packing instructions :-)) All the smaller parts were packed in nice individual boxes and the larger parts were packed in a nice wood crate structure. I have been real busy making parts this weekend so I have not reported back, but the machine does a perfect job. If I really try, I can get dimensions within a few mil and with a single mil when needed. All my "first time" parts turned out great!! I am extremely pleased with the mill and it is everything I could have hoped for. I really liked the vast variety of parts and added toys that are easily available. I just ordered up that 4-inch rotary table and a 2.5-inch chuck along with some other stuff. I have found that a few gauge blocks and that Starrett "last word" gage are real helpful too if not cheap. I figured the cost of the mill was not that great compared to the "extras" I would need but the "package deal" on the 5400 is a very good buy. I have used almost all that extra stuff with pleasure. I ran gages along most of the critical surfaces and they were perfect. No problem at all with the machine's inherent tolerances. So I'll be a bit of a "bad boy" and mention three defects =:-O 1. The 1/4-inch draw bolts seem to be typical cheap machine hardware and the chrome plating is not well done. I had to run them through a die to true up the treads and lube them before they would mate easily with the drill chuck and fly cutter. The chrome plating did not help the tolerance there at all. I would suggest some serious vendor inspection on these common hardware bolts. The larger collet draw bolt was better but not real perfect either. 2. The 1/4 inch collet's threads for the draw bolt were poor. I think the tap used to make it was broken. I tried to rethread it with a tap but the metal was too hard and I just killed it worse. The other collets were fine. 3. The zero handwheel gauges had no lubrication. They were just bare aluminum against bare aluminum. They either rattled around or dug in. I pulled them apart and stuffed some thick silicon grease in them to give them a smooth feel. Since everything else was well lubed, I think the zero handwheel gages could be greased up too. They would wear very fast without any lube at all but maybe some people like the "dry" feel... Otherwise the thing was fine. I readjusted all the gibes and lubed them to my liking but that was just me. The motor, belt, controller assembly required a little thought to assemble but I figured it out. So I would suggest inspecting the draw bolt threads for tolerance and lubing the zero handwheel gages as a quality improvement. Then it will all be perfect. :-)) I was able to start using the machine for "real work" right away and I was 100% successful. I have usually been the guy (other colorful references to me in this case will be forgotten :-))) standing behind the poor machinist saying things like "make that thingamajig just right cause I am watching you"... But I actually was able to do it all myself for once :-))) The 3020 T-driver is a must have in that it fits the common bolts (usually) and makes a nice draw bolt hammer too. A ball end on that hex tool may be a future improvement to allow off angle uses but such ends need to be very high precision (get them from the Allen company. I got some for my robot and Allen's tolerance was off only 0.2 mil from ideal :-))). I also ordered up a combination wrench (1/2 and 7/16 if I remember right) from MSC to cover the draw bolts. Cheers, Terry ------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:22:37 -0800 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Re: Newbie to Machining and the Group Terry: You might find a set of the cheap Taiwanese nutdrivers handy as well. I use them to open and close the drawbolts. You're able to apply enough torque to hold the part in the headstock securely, but not too much so that you start ruining the machine. And, for that job, you don't need the quality that a good brand such as Xcelite provides. As far as your collet with the bad threads, you should have called Sherline. One "accessory" that their catalog does not call out is the excellent service that they provide. They must have used ShopSmith as a model! -- Carol & Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 23:19:58 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: milling question From: "Wm. Dubin" > I need to mill some 3/8" thick cold rolled steel. Basically working the > edge to get it to the correct size, and finish. I've never worked steel > this thick before, so thought I'd ask before I ruin something. > I can mill both horizontally or vertically. My feeling is that I would > do best using a > 3/8" 2 flute mill cutter in the horizontal position, taking advantage of > its side surface rather than a multi-cut with its tip. > Does that sound correct, or has anyone a different opinion? > With the horizontal position, would you feed the work into the cutter in > the same direction it is turning, or against it? > Finally, what RPM would be advised... I will be taking VERY small bites, > but the length of the cut is about 3". Thanks in advance. Wm. Dubin Hi Wm: Is this the edge of a 3/8" thick plate? If so, how big is the plate? The reason I ask is that one of the best ways to machine plate edges is to flycut them, but you can only do that if the plate is small enough to be clamped standing up under the cutter. The Sherline horizontal milling option works really well for this kind of application, because you can clamp the plate directly to the table with one edge hanging over, and the cutter oriented to advance into the plate on its downward side. The reason I'm going on at length about this, is that on a teeny mill like the Sherline or the Taig, side milling has some risks. These mills are not too rigid, and side milling generates much larger forces than flycutting. These forces tend to make the cutter try to grab the work, especially if they are fed into the work in the wrong direction relative to the direction the cutter is rotating. So, if you can, endmilling or flycutting is better. If you can't then you have to side mill it. The cutter should not be "climb cutting" on such a small machine. To determine whether it is or not, visualize the cutter with the work going past it from a top view. The cutter should be starting its cut by making a chip that progressively INCREASES in thickness as the cutter rotates and the material is pushed past it. If the chip starts out at maximum thickness and reduces in thickness as the cutter rotation and stock feed progresses, you are climb cutting. This is bad! Another way to look at it is to think of the cut as if it were a ditch laid over on its side. If you dig the ditch by positioning the backhoe ahead of the ditch and starting your bite at the bottom of the completed part of the ditch, then lifting the filled bucket out of the ditch toward you, you are "conventional" milling which is what you should be doing. If you dig by dropping a backhoe bucket into the dirt ahead of the completed part of the ditch, and finishing the digging stroke at the bottom of the ditch, you are "climb" milling. That's bad! Regarding feeds and speeds: these will depend on the cutter diameter you choose, and the material the cutter is made of. Use HSS (with 5% cobalt if you can get it). Bigger is better within reason. The biggest you can conveniently use on a Sherline is 3/8" dia. Get 4 flute center cutting endmills of a good grade (Niagara are good, so are DoAll: most Polish and all Chinese or Pakistani cutters are crap). Start it off slow and run the speed up to where you cannot see the individual flutes anymore; that should be just about right. Drop a couple of drops of Rapidtap onto the cutter every half inch of cut or so and feed at about a rate that gets you across your 3" long cut in about 45 seconds or so. You should be able to take a cut of 0.015 to 0.020 in 3/8" thick stock on a Sherline with no problem. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 11:43:22 -0500 From: "Daniel J. Statman" Subject: Re: Re: How hot does your motor run? From: "dean83530" > Ken; > The motor on your lathe or mill is protected against overheating. How > hot is too hot is a good question, but since it will shut down before > burnout you probably don't need to worry. > While turning a crankcase for a small gas engine I built, the motor on > my lathe got very hot. Didn't want to hold my hand on it for very > long. I had been turning for about an hour and a half taking heavy > cuts when it decided it needed a rest. I turned off the switch and > did something else for a few minutes. When I came back it was ready > to go at it again. That's the only time it has ever happened in three > years. Dean W > --- In sherlinex~xxy..., "mszollar" wrote: > > I measured the surface temperature of the Sherline motor, running on > > a mill and it reads 145 degrees F. The motor is not shutting down > > or acting strange; I was just curious if this is the normal > > operating temperature. Ken I often over heat my lathe motor while trying to drill 3/8" through holes in solid bar stock titanium. I use smaller drill sizes before I get to the 3/8" drill. The motor will simply shut off when it gets too hot. The only warning that I have is when the motor cools back down (10-20 seconds later) it will turn itself back on unless you manually flip the switch to the off position after the temperature induced shut off. If it is a hole that I need to drill and cannot wait for the motor to cool down sufficiently I have caused an overheat shut off probably 25 consecutive times in one sitting. Can't be good for the motor, but I see no ill effects. If it breaks, I will buy another one and continue to work it just as hard. When surface engraving with my CNC mill it can run at very high speeds (10,200 RPM) for several hours at a time. Since the cuts are light the motor is not being stressed too much, but the headstock bearings sure do get hot. No way you could hold your hand on the headstock body for more than a couple of seconds. I have even backed the preload nut off about 1/4-1/2 turn (as per the instructions on the high speed pulley kit) and it still gets that hot. The GREAT thing about Sherline tools is that they sell each individual replacement part, and they are all generally in stock for overnight delivery. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 02:56:38 -0000 From: "ricklinstad" Subject: slipping mill vise Greetings all, I am having trouble cutting an rabbet on the end of a 3" piece of 6061 bar stock. After a series of passes I noticed that the mill vise had slipped slightly. I have read several warnings about not tightening the the T-nuts too tight so I am very careful here. I have not had any previous problems with it slipping, but this is the first time I have milled such a large piece. Here are the specifics. I have set a 3/8" endmill to a depth of .2" of and inch and have made a series of about .01" passes. After about the 6th or 7th I noticed that the vise had slipped. Am I taking too big a bit or is there a better way of holding the stock? Thanks for any help you can give me. Rick ------- Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 03:37:19 -0000 From: "kentfreeman" Subject: Re: slipping mill vise I use four screws to hold my vise down. When I was using two I had a problem with the vise moving. ------- Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 02:21:08 -0000 From: "santorelli333" Subject: Re: slipping mill vise Do you have the rotating vise base??? It should take care of any problems you have(an as an added bonus it makes aligning the vice-jaws to paralell with the x-axis a lot easier) Or you could use a alu-plate(mill-tooling plate?) with a piece of alu- bar permanently screwed to the plate and milled flat on one side so that one side(fixed-jaw side) of the wise rests agins it then drill holes for the vice-clamp screws in the plate( one for the remaining shortside of the vice and 1-2 for the long sides) Should also make aligning the vise a cinch.......:) San ------- Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:01:31 -0500 From: ron ginger Subject: Re: Slipping Vise One trick that works well when holding two metal surfaces together, like the vise on the table, or when holding a workpiece to the table, is to place a single thickness of brown paper bag between the surfaces. This adds considerable friction and stops the sliding, and the paper is uniform enough in thickness to not upset the alignment. I use this both on my Sherline and on my bigger mills. ron ginger ------- Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:10:39 -0500 From: Ty Hoeffer Subject: Re: brass collar on mill feed screw John Liestman wrote: >I feel so stupid asking this: On my Sherline mill, there is a little brass >collar with a gear-like edge that sit on the feed screw. What is this, what >is its purpose, is it supposed to just spin freely along the screw. John, That is the backlash adjust nut or just "backlash nut" it should be held in position by either another collar ( held by a screw ) with mating grooves or a little tear drop shaped piece of metal that the pointed end sits in the groove to prevent rotation also held by a screw. Ty ------- Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 14:39:26 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: brass collar on mill feed screw On my Sherline mill, there is a little brass > collar with a gear-like edge that sit on the feed screw. What is this, > what is its purpose, is it supposed to just spin freely along the screw. John, (As a note to John and others looking for a way to figure out how old a used Sherline machine might be, there is a web page that covers the production changes from year to year that will help date it. See www.sherline.com/usedmach.htm.) The gear-like collar you mention is the anti-backlash nut. If you have a current instruction manual, there is an illustration on page 11 that shows a cross-section of how the backlash lock on the Y-axis leadscrew works. If you have an older machine, instead of the "star gear" that functions to keep the backlash nut from turning we used to use a small pointer that did the same thing. If you have a used mill and it didn't come with a lock for the backlash nut, call me at (800) 541-0735 or e-mail me at craigx~xxsherline.com and we'll get you the right part to fix it. The two locking systems are not interchangeable because the distance between the leadscrew hole and the locking screw hole is different for each system. Measure the distance between the centerline of the leadscrew and the centerline of the hole to the left of it in the saddle before you call. If you don't have an instruction manual, we'll see that you get one of those too. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:26:34 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Locking Mill Slides From: Bruce Buchner >>>I have a 5400 mill and I am having trouble locking down the Y axis. The X axis has a nice cap screw you can tighten with an allen wrench. all I see on the Y axis is a small screw with a thumb wheel. when I tighten it the axis still moves when I use the mill. I am afraid to over tighten it because it is so thin that I am afraid I will break it. Am I doing something wrong here? Bruce Buchner <<< Dear Bruce, Tightening the Y-axis lock thumbscrew pushes a tapered piece of teflon against the plastic gib which wedges it against the side of the dovetail. While better than nothing, this is admittedly not as positive as the X-axis barrel lock. Anyone with a better suggestion is welcome to send it in for consideration. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:43:17 -0600 From: "Sedota, Kevin" Subject: RE: Locking Mill Slides Could this be done with a sort of cam lock. (I'm not sure that's the proper name) You'd have a pin where the current screw is that has the outside threaded. You place a nut on the threaded piece. This will allow you to increase or decrease the preasure as needed. You then place a mount on the side of the slide next to the pin. In the mount you have a little handle that has the cam. When you pull it out a piece comes out and presses down on the exposed part of the pin. I probably haven't explaned it that well but if you look at the thing on the end of a good bicycle pump (the ones that snap on not the ones the screw on) You can see what I mean about a cam. ------- Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 16:26:58 -0800 From: "Wm. Dubin" Subject: Re: Locking Mill Slides Craig: What is the thread on that thumb screw? I'm thinking of replacing it with a cap-head, and using an Allen wrench to tighten it, as this would give way more force against the gib. As to suggestions, why not have the classic gib, but use 2 or 3 of these cap-headed screws in place of the one thumb screw? (Of course this means some re-tooling, but this is something I've had problems with and would love to have a better solution to). Wm. ------- Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 09:37:30 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Locking Mill Slides Dear Mr. Dubin and group, Larry Mortimer has made a number of good suggestions for accessories and "fixes" over the years. He suggests making an aluminum plate about .75" wide by .95" tall iwth a hole on center. It should have a small ridge about .030 high across the bottom that presses on the mill base itself. When tightening the thumbscrew (or a socket head screw), now instead of pulling the far side of the saddle against the dovetail, you create a friction lock against the side of the bed. I will be putting a drawing of his part on the "tips" page as soon as I get a chance. By the way, as mentioned above, tightening the thumbscrew against the gib actually has the effect of pulling the entire saddle against the bed, which exerts pressure on the dovetail on the opposite side. Because this is a lubricated and angled surface, it doesn't lock very well. Having friction between two square "dry" surfaces will work better. Joe had looked at this solution a while back, but was a little unhappy with the way the lock plate could rotate when loose. The angle of the base helps keep it parallel, but he was still looking for a more elegant solution. The advantage of this one is that it only requires one simple part and no new holes. By the way, the thumbscrew hole is 10-32. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:07:03 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: cutting rounded corners kevin_sedota wrote: > The subject line states the problem. I have a 3 1/2 sqare plate that > I want to cut rounded edges. I can figure out the math to offset the > slide for a given endmill on a rotary table but I can not figure out > how to mount the work piece accuretly enough to cut the corners > cleanly. Since the center of the spindle has to exactly match the > center of the rotary table (before making the calculated offset) the > center or the circle that defines the curve of the cut has to exacly > match the same axis. However, I can't figure out how to do this. > I've tried scribing the plate and then putting a dead center in the > spindle and lining up the scribe marks with the point of the center > but I never comes out exactly. One edge is either to deep and you get > a cut that puts a sort of a dip in the edge or it is to shallow and > you don't get a nice rounded corner. > Any suggestions would be appreciated. Sorry, no CNC. thanks kjs Hi Kevin: Yeah, CNC would have been my first suggestion! Are you confident that you can center the rotary table below the spindle? You might try using a "wiggler" to do this first. A concentric threaded plug with a crosshair will allow you to do this (how are others doing it?). Then, from your scribed lines, and using the wiggler again, align the stock in X and Y axis FIRST, then center the spindle on the arc center. Alan KM6VV P.S. A concentric threaded plug with a 1/4" shank might be useful for initial setups. A collet would hold the shank, 'till you tighten down the rotary table. P.P.S. If you have many to make, then a "fixture" of two small strips to align with the edges of the stock might help. You'd just slide up the stock, and clamp it. Could also use a piece with a notch cut out to fix the alignment. ------- Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 22:18:59 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: cuttiing rounded corners Kevin: You did not say how much of a radius you were cutting, however for under half inch I have always used corner rounding end mills. You can take a light first and second cut and adjust the center as needed. Even if you had to purchase one they come in handy for all sorts of things. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 22:18:29 -0000 From: "Ted Walls" Subject: Re: Mill Tooling Plate hole pattern I wouldn't put a hole pattern in the plate. I have a number of 0.375" thick ground aluminium plates, of various sizes,mostly with lots of holes in. I consider these plates to be expendable (when you have filled them with holes). Just put the holes in as the jobs arise. I have one plate with two 0.25" wide, 0.125" deep slots at 90 degrees, and 8 holes to locate and secure the vice. The plate fits flush with the front of the table and level with one end. The slots are arranged so that with a piece of .25" square steel fitted into one slot the vice can be located central to the table in X or Y. Using a piece of .25" square steel in this way lets you set the vice square or parallel to the table and helps stop the vice from moving when cutting. Hope this is helpful! -------- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:31:44 -0800 From: "Brad Butler" Subject: Re: Boreing Head Alignment - Mill From: joeb759x~xxaol.com >>>I tried my hand at first time using the mill boring head. It worked fine except that the . 375 hole in 6061 alum. is +. 002 out of round. My vise was squared and the work piece was square with the vise. I was taking shallow cuts after drilling the initial work hole. The finished hole measures . 375 across one way and . 377 the other. The cutter was lined up 90 degree facing outside . What am I missing here? Any constructive comments would be appreciated. Thanking you in advance, Joe <<< Not knowing exactly what your setup is I will ask a question. Did you measure the hole before or after you removed it from the vice. If you measured it after then it is quite possible that you were clamped hard enough onto the part to distort it. In this case the hole would have been concentric in the vice but when you removed it the pressure on the part went away and the hole went out of round. Even if your mill head was totally crooked the hole would still be concentric if you weren't clamping too hard on the part. Brad. ------- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 22:07:45 -0500 From: Thomas Gilmour Subject: Re: Boreing Head Alignment - Mill This might be due to a slight deflection of the table in X or Y, especially Y as I've found that the slide lock doesn't hold very well. Or perhaps it's due to the column flexing. Tom ------- Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 04:03:55 -0000 From: "terry6453" Subject: Re: Boreing Head Alignment - Mill Hi Joe, I just got the boring head too but my holes seem perfectly round. I would grab the work and the boring bar and try to shake or wiggle them to be sure nothing is loose. If the speed was high, it may have been turning in an oval since the head is not perfectly balanced but it actually should still turn in a circle regardless unless it was vibrating. Maybe slower speed would help. I think the other person's idea about the vise distorting it is a very good possibility. You may try remeasuring it several times too since inside holes are harder to measure. BTW - I had to square up the end of the dial adjuster screw on the boring tool for the adjuster to work properly. The screw tip came with a slight angle so the dial was not accurate. A bit of simple careful filing restored it to perfect working order. Hope this is of some help to you. Cheers, Terry ------- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:23:24 -0500 From: "Jeff Bissonnette" Subject: Re: Boreing Head Alignment - Mill Joe: Sounds like your milling column could a little out of perpendicularity with your table or the part may not have been level in the vise or on the table... If you cut a cylinder with a plane that is not perpendicular to that cylinder's axis, you end up with an oval. In your case, with your bore being 0.002" out of round, it would be a very minor misalignment, or out of level condition. Jeff ------- From: "Marcus & Eva" Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 7:18 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] Boreing Head Alignment - Mill Hi Wm: The last cut should be a fine one. You are quite correct there; the question is how fine? You need to determine this with experience. I find that on a light machine like a Sherline, a last cut of 0.002" or so is fine in many materials. You will also notice that some materials will tend to pick up a chip and weld it to the face of the tool, even with lubricant. Sometimes this problem is worse with fine cuts. P20 mold steel is particularly bad for this. So is 4140 and mild steel. With a 0.010" deep cut and a carbide tool I can get a beautiful finish. The same tool with a 0.001" cut leaves a pig's breakfast!! Many larger machines have a quill, that is reasonably evenly supported in a honed housing, and the push is relatively close to the centerline of the spindle axis. A Bridgeport is a good example. These kinds of machines are somewhat less sensitive to the direction of the cut, but if you watch their action closely, you will still see this effect. Another thing you need to watch is the speed at which you run the boring head. You need speed for carbide, but the head is often so eccentric, that it will rattle the machine to pieces. I don't use a conventional boring head anymore because of this problem. For 90% of my boring, I use a plain boring bar made out of an ejector pin cutoff, and just offset the toolbit by pushing it out and controlling the amount with a dial indicator against the tip of the tool. The toolbit mass is so low, that I can run the tool at much higher speed without problems. With practice, you can bore to within 0.0005" consistently. The other BIG thing you can do to improve your success, is to get the tip of the tool as close to the front spindle bearing as you possibly can. This is a basic rule for all machining operations, and it sometimes really roasts my turkey to see photos of some "expert's" setup where he's got the cutter hanging out a mile on a flimsy little mill-drill. This is another reason why beginners often have a really hard time working accurately. Going back to the boring head, you can see why I don't like them much. Cheers Marcus ------- From: "Craig Libuse" Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:54 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] Sherline DRO > Does anyone know the the screw size that goes into the end of the Z > axis leadscrew? Kent, The hole is tapped 5-40. There are two different screws depending on whether you have the standard handwheel or the adjustable zero handwheel. The standard handwheel uses a #6 flat washer (P/N 45012) and a button head 5-40 x 3/8 button head cap screw (P/N 45014). Because that would interfere with the locking ring of the adjustable handwheel, on that application we use a countersunk 5-40 x 3/8 flat head socket screw (P/N 45013). If you tell me which you need I will be glad to send the proper screw to you at no charge with our apologies for leaving it out. This is a relatively new upgrade to keep the Z-axis handwheel set screw from having to support the weight of the motor/ speed control unit. It helps keep the column from "settling" during use. The instruction manual exploded view will reflect the change the next time it is printed. Owners of existing machines not fitted with this modification can fit new leadscrews and handwheels or drill and tap their existing ones to match the new design. You can find out more about the change at www.sherline.com/Zaxisfix.pdf. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 14:53:13 -0800 From: Randy Gordon-Gilmore Subject: Re: Milling Collet 2/8/2002, kentfreeman wrote: >Does anyone know if the Sherline Milling Collet can hold a double >ended end mill? I used a double-ended 3/16"-shank endmill last week. I made sure there was enough room ahead of the drawbar nose before I finally tightened it. Best regards, Randy ------- Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:47:47 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Milling Collet > Does anyone know if the Sherline Milling Collet can hold a double > ended end mill? Kent, While a double ended end mill can be held in a collet, it is a better idea to use an end mill holder to hold them. Tightening the collet on the sharp teeth of the cutter is not good for the inner surface. Also, you must be sure you don't seat the collet deep enough so that the end of the drawbolt hits it. Sherline makes end mill holders in a number of sizes from 1/8 up to 3/8". The hole and thread are cut on a CNC machine in one setup, so they are quite concentric. The set screw tightens on the flat in the center of double ended end mills, so they are held quite securely. The holder just threads onto the external spindle thread, so they are quick to install. The $30 price may seem a little steep, but they are hard to make and must be done very accurately or they are worthless. The ease of use makes them worthwhile, but one of the main advantages is that it allows you to hold 3/8" end mills. Because these end mills are used in great quantity in industry, they are cheaper than the miniature single ended end mills, making them a much better buy. Money invested in the holder will be rapidly repaid in savings on the end mills. Also, a larger variety of cutter shapes can be easily found in the 3/8" shank size. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:14:16 -0600 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: Milling Collet Kent, Double ended milling bits can be used. By boring out the draw-bolt, limited on size of course, the proper purchase can be made on the mill bit's shank. If you don't like the idea of boring your stock draw bolt you can pick up one to modify at your local hardware store. I have mine modified and have had good luck for the past 7 years of use. Forrest ------- Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:34:04 -0000 From: "mszollar" Subject: what (alignment) is close enough THe more I use my Sherline the more I learn. This week is about tramming the headstock (boy is that someting of a chore!). What I noticed is that for/aft movment of the Z axis appears to be about +/- .0025 (that is the amount I can get a indicator to deflect with all screws tight by pressing on the Z's CNC motor mount). I undertook this task after noticing ridges in my face mill operations. So the $M question; how close is close enough and are there any shortcuts or helpful hints? Since everything about the headstock is connected you can't adjust 1 without affecting the other. Sure I can spend an hour or 2 getting it correct but if there is a shortcut or helpful hints to make the job easier I'd be interestied in hearing them. I have a 5400 mill (I can't even imagine what it takes to true the 8 axis). Thanks, Ken ------- Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:04:56 -0600 From: "Brad Butler" Subject: Re: what (alignment) is close enough Ken, How much is close enough. Well that is an impossible question to answer because it all depends on what you are building. For me I strive to get my mill head square within about .0005 in all directions. Now what does that mean? I use an indicol indicator holder attached to the spindle and rotate it around in a circle to check the squareness of the mill head. So over the Y width of the mill bed the head is square within .0005 in. With the standard milling column this is a time consuming task as it is purely trial and error. All you can do is to add shims under the milling column to correct the misalignment. I have spent so much time on mine that I modified it to look somewhat like a 8 direction unit to make it easier to adjust. Believe it or not a 8 direction model is quite easy to square up once you get the hang of it. Besides being smaller it is done exactly like a full size mill. Sorry though, there is no real shortcut but it is a adjustment worth making. Brad Butler ------- Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 05:38:32 -0000 From: "lbranhamca" Subject: Boring on the Sherline mill I've noticed that most of the steam engine construction series have holes (typically cylinder bores) bored out on the lathe, and in some cases much smaller holes as well (journal boxes). This requires using the four jaw chuck and a wiggler to get everything aligned. Is there some reason this type of boring isn't done on the mill? Is it less accurate to use an edge finder (assuming we have a decent reference edge) and use the hand wheels to locate the hole accurately? If the mill is less accurate why bother with a boring head accessory for the mill? Any comments would be much appreciated. ------- Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:08:51 -0800 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: Re: Boring on the Sherline mill I personally use the lathe to bore cylinders because that's what I'm used to. I had the lathe long before I had a mill, so when I started in on steam engines that was "the only game in town." My next engine will have four holes in one block (2 for pistons, 2 for valves) and I'm going to do that on the mill -- simply for my own education. I anticipate easier positioning of the holes with the mill than by positioning with a 4-jaw on a lathe. I suspect the reason steam engine construction series push lathe boring is that when readers have only one machine, usually that machine is a lathe. Dave Goodfellow Northridge, CA ------- Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:07:09 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Boring on the Sherline mill Hi Ibranhamca: Boring on the mill has the advantage that locating the hole position is much easier than on the lathe, and that holes can be positioned anywhere on the block without regard to the consequences of swinging the whole block around the hole axis. Boring on the lathe makes it easier to get the hole to an accurate diameter, and also allows you to make tapered and profiled holes. It's also a bit easier to get a good finish on the lathe. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:53:34 -0000 From: "timxdunn" Subject: Fly Cutting I have just joined this group, having received my Sherline lathe and mill a couple of weeks ago. As you will see, I have no experience in using machine tools. I have about 50,000 questions but I'll just ask a couple this time. The Tabletop Machining book by Joe Martin gives pretty good instructions on how to squre up a block. I figured that this would be a good exercise to start with. Anyway, to cut a very long story long, when I am flycutting I notice two problems. First, when setting up the mill the spindle is never perpendicular to the table. I adjust it each time using a dial indicator, but I am concerned that I am able to make the adjustments by hand. I imagine that taking the chuck out of the spindle and putting the flycutter in will mess up the alignment. How do I get the spindle to stay where I put it? The key is in the keyway and the locking screw is a tight as I dare make it. The second problem, possibly related to the first, is that I can always see a line marking the boundary between where one flycutting pass was and the next. I can also feel the line as a little step with my fingers. I ought to point out that I am having a ball, I wish I'd started this years ago! Any help that anyone can offer to a novice will be greatly appreciated. -Tim ------- Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:15:20 -0600 From: "Matt Pierce" Subject: Re: Fly Cutting Tim, I'm probably about as new at this as you are (my mill is still in the mail), but I have done fly-cutting on full size mills, you can reduce the "lines" with a finer table feed or higher spindle RPM. I like the fly-cutter to drag a little bit on the back side as it goes over the work piece, I like the finish it leaves (also holds oil well to prevent rust). If you are using a HSS cutter in your fly-cutter be sure it has a good radius ground into the HSS tool. Matt Pierce ------- Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:12:06 -0000 From: "SiKn1Gh7" Subject: Re: Fly Cutting Congrats on your purchase! I am a mentor to about 20 awesome high school students, and I use a sherline 5400 mill and the long lathe to teach my kids how to machine. (We just placed 8th in the Pacific Northwest regionals this afternoon, so thank you Sherline for sponsoring us - http://swat.ee.washington.edu). I usually start them on the lathe first, teaching them how to turn and face aluminium, then follow by basic mill work. The reason why I start them on a lathe first is it gives them a good feel of what a "proper" cut on metal is supposed to be like - the chips cut continuously, peeling off into long, beautiful strands. One big prerequesite to doing this is to have proper feed rates and feed techniques. The feed rate depends on the cutting tool you're using, the depth of the cut, along with the material you're cutting. As for feed techniques - the 2- handed technique that's described in the book somewhere is what you should aim for - basically turn the wheel like a steering wheel, smooth feed motions (instead of using the hand cranks). It sounds like that your flycutter isn't true to the workpiece. This is directly related to your first problem - if you were to imagine the cutting point tracing a circle you want that circle to be in a plane parallel to the mill table. The feedrate might also play a factor. Are you using the 2000 model mill? Terence ------- Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:57:06 -0700 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: Re: Frustrating Mill Problem I had a Sherline mill whose z axis would "hang up." You could dial it down to proper depth, but the spindle weight was not sufficient to overcome backlash; the spindle would hold at the top of the mesh between leadscrew and halfnut. Then it would work down gradually during the cut. I could bring it down to proper depth and then push down on the spindle; an audible click would result as the spindle took the final plunge to depth. The solution was to slightly LOOSEN the adjustment so that the spindle's weight was sufficient to make it settle. Dave Goodfellow Northridge, CA ------- Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:37:04 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: New Mill, Loose Headstock > Pardon me if this has already been covered but I have looked in the > archives, the Sherline manuals, and the online Sherline documents > without finding any reference to this. > I just got a new ultimate shop package yesterday. I haven't yet had > the time to unpack the lathe. I was working on setting up the mill > last night and everything looks good so far save for one thing. If I > attach the headstock directly to the vertical column, it draws up nice > and tight. The headstock spacer however has a few thousandths of play > when fully "tightened". I suppose I could shim it but it doesn't seem > like this should be necessary. I can't see that the design allows for > any adjustment, did I get a bad part or is this common? Thanks, Ken Dear Ken, Try the precision ground key from the headstock in the spacer block. If it removes the play, you may have an alignment key that is ground too thin. If it doesn't make any difference, the slot in the spacer block may be too wide. In either case, it would be covered by warranty. Also note that the mounting pins in both the saddle and the spacer block are supposed to beslightly loose. This allows them to self-adjust as to position as they are pulled upward when the pointed set screw is tightened into the tapered groove in the side of the pin. This pulls the headstock down into position as the screw is tightened and allows the keyway to do the alignment rather than the pin. If you have further questions, feel free to call Sherline at (800) 541-0735 for advice. Sincerely Yours, Craig Libuse Sherline ------- Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 17:46:52 -0000 From: "hctuhlk" Subject: Re: New Mill, Loose Headstock Craig: Thanks for the reply. The problem isn't the key and the attachment pins are both slightly loose. I guess I wasn't clear enough but if I put the spacer on the saddle and tighten the attachment screw nice and snug, the spacer wobbles from side to side. I can see daylight (but not much) between the spacer and the surface of the saddle that it is supposed to pull "down" against. I have spoken with customer service at your 800 number. I forget the woman's name but she told me that there have been problems with the screws that hold the spacer's attachment pin in place (the pin that the headstock grabs when you attach it to the spacer). Some were made with heads that were too thick, causing the screwhead to be trapped between the spacer and the saddle's pin before the spacer draws down against the saddle. She was going to talk to an assembly expert about this and then send me out either a new screw or a whole new spacer assembly depending on his/her advice. For the time being I am waiting for this to arrive. There is no rush on this end. I suppose I could check this theory out by removing the spacer's pin leaving just the screw in the spacer. Then when I tighten down the spacer the screw should be held firmly if the saddle pin is bottoming out against it. I have tried this experiment with the pin in place and there is play in the pin but it could just be the play of the pin on the screw threads, I suppose. What the heck, I will experiment with the keys too, I don't think the keys are the problem but it won't take much effort to test this out. Ken ------- Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 22:02:35 -0000 From: "hctuhlk" Subject: Re: New Mill, Loose Headstock Craig: Got the new spacer yesterday and it works perfectly. The new one doesn't have the lip in the attachment hole like the old one did. Most likely that was the problem. You can judge for yourself in a few days, the old one went back to you Priority Mail an hour ago. Thanks for the excellent service! Ken ------- Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:33:27 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Table looseness on the mill [sherline] > I've been having an problem with the Y axis on my mill. I can grab > the bed with my hand and jiggle it back and forth quite a distance. I > haven't measured it but it might be a few hundreths. This causes a > problem when taking a climbing cut because the endmill pulls it one > direction and the preasure on the handwheel pulls it in the other > direction. This is not condusive for a clean, smooth cut. > > I don't use climbing cuts as a rule but when cutting a slot that I > can't do with a single pass I'll cut a slot and then make several > passes with a regular cut until the slot is the required size. When I > re-position the table for the next pass I'd like to be able simply > use the Y axis without having to adjust the X axis to move the > endmill away from the work piece. This results in a very light > climbing cut and hence the problem. > > Is there some way to adjust this looseness out of the table or is > this normal? I'm not sure if it's backlash. Am I missing something? Dear Kevin, If the table is moving side-to-side, you probably need to adjust the gib a little tighter. See your instruction manual on page 11 for a photo and description. The gibs are simply plastic "wedges" that take out side play on all the dovetails. Each is adjusted in a similar manner. You loosen the set screw holding the wire gib lock, push the gib a little tighter into the space between the saddle and table or saddle and base and retighten the set screw. If you get it too tight, just pull it out and try again with a little less pressure. If the table is moving end-to-end, the backlash needs to be adjusted. It is also covered on page 11. Craig Libuse Sherline ------- Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 04:47:11 -0000 From: "timxdunn" Subject: Mill Problem Folks, I'm having some difficulty getting the spindle assembly to stay in one place on my 5400 mill. Although there is a metal key designed to lock the angle at 0 or 90 degrees I have discovered that this key still allows some rotation. In an effort to get the spidle axis aligned exactly vertical I put my dial indicator into the tool holder and 'swept' the mill. This procedure showed that there was about a .002 difference during a half turn of the spindle. I was able to adjust that to zero, but having done that I found out that, no matter how tight I fasten the locking screw, I am still able to rotate the spindle assembly with only moderate hand pressure. I tried cleaning up the surfaces of the mill and the spindle assembly, and I tried swapping the spindle assembly for that of my 4400 lathe. Neither made any difference. Is this normal? Is there anything that I can do to lock these two pieces together better? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. -Tim -------- Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 00:37:43 -0500 From: Ken Grunke Subject: Re: Mill problem I'm replying not to directly solve Tim's problem (and others, as well) but to make a suggestion to Sherline for a possible solution. A square key, no matter how precision ground, is bound to sooner or later have some play in keyways milled in aluminum. Many of us switch between vertical and horizontal configuration on the mill several times during the lifetime of the mill, and the keyway can become worn to the point of uselessness. My suggestion is to change over to a tapered key. Of course, a tapered key of square section would be out of the question, and not practical for production. But a round tapered keypin and keyway would allow for wear, it would only have to go a little deeper as wear progresses. The keyway can be cut with a taperpin reamer, after drilling a pilot hole centered exactly on the joint between the mill's z-axis slide and the headstock, with the headstock's spindle aligned exactly with the column. A vertical keyway, and 2 horizontal ones, on each side. I'm not at all familiar with Sherline's production methods, this may be a stab in the dark and impractical. But the tapered key concept makes a lot more sense than a straight key to me. While I'm on the subject of design suggestions for Sherline, another improvement I can think of would be an easier way to mount/dismount the column to/from the x-y base instead of tipping it over to get at the two mounting screws. I have a shopmade baseplate serving the same purpose as the one supplied by Sherline, allowing me to mount the column off to the side of the x-y base--so the mill can be used as a horizontal mill, with the headstock in horizontal position, in line with the y axis (front to back). Instead of screws, why not the same kind of posts that hold the headstock to the z axis slide? 2 of them, in place of the mounting screws, with setscrews into the side of the column's base block, bearing against the posts. What do ya think, Craig? my two cents, Ken ------- Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 14:24:13 -0000 From: "neilunreal" Subject: Re: Mill Problem I have a similar problem, a few hundredths of a millimeter of tilt in the mill head. It's not the column, the column is, and remains, perfectly straight. What happens in my case is that the alignment is perfect when the weight of the motor is removed. When the weight of the motor is added, it causes the head to twist or sag slightly in that direction (<.1 degree). It doesn't appear to be the column flexing, though it might be compression in the jib. I suspect it's the sum total of all the compressions and stresses in the entire system with the added weight. I haven't implemented a long-term fix, since I plan on converting to the horizontal upgrade soon and the stresses will be difference. -Neil ------- Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:10:31 -0500 From: Ken Grunke Subject: Re: Mill problem (My original post is quoted at the bottom in full) A square key tapered on two sides may be practical, I suppose, but a tapered slot would add more production time--so I figured that a tapered round pin slipped in between the headstock and the headstock mount might be easily made with an exterior broach or even be an off-the-shelf item. And the tapered holes would be quicker than milling tapered keyways, I'm sure. They would be cut "in situ" or with the two parts mated and in alignment with each other. I kind of doubt that Sherline would consider retooling for this idea, they keep their prices affordable by sticking to a tried and true design--but like you say, an end-user modification is very practical. Milled keyways would have to be cut seperately on each mating surface, on two slightly different axises (axii?) for each side of the keyway. Does that sound easy? Not to me. To Larry, asking about photos or drawings--no, I don't have either. But if there's something that needs clarification, feel free to ask :-) Now as far as my second idea with the mill column (replacing the mounting screws underneath with a quick-release mount) I hope Sherline would seriously consider. I don't think retooling for that would be impractical, but it also would be a straightforward user mod. I have two other places I use the mill column in, one is off to the side of the base with the headstock in horizontal position, and two, on the carriage of my Compact 8 lathe. So I'm motivated to make it easier to switch around. Precision alignment of the column would be needed in horizontal mill mode, supplied by a key and keyway, of course. My two cents worth again, Ken ------- Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 19:27:16 -0400 From: ron ginger Subject: Re: mill problem Any key or pin can eventually wear, and even the best manufacturing job will have a tolerance, hence not be exactly right. I suggest adding a steel pin into the bed, in about the position of the key. Then drill and tap a pair of holes in the headstock arranged so that the two screws will bear on the pin, one from the front, one from the back. This is exactly the way a tailstock is fitted on all large lathes. By adjusting the two screws the headstock can be set to exact alignment, or to an exact angle if desired. When I get a chance Ill modify my lathe and take some photos. ron ginger ------- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:31:09 -0000 From: "tresark" Subject: Axis Play I've recently purchased a new 5400 mill. I notice that the y-gib has had to be adjusted almost every other day. Or at least I think so. If I extend the x axis out to near zero I can easily hold the end of the cross slide and cause the y axis to move between 5 and 10 thousandths. Tightening the gib drops this down to near .002. Also pressing down on the spindle I can cause it to move about the the same 5 thousandths, lifting up about the same. I haven't adjusted the z gib yet because the cnc motors I'm using are near the limit when lifting the z axis, and increasing the friction would probably stall the motor. I'll order a more robust z stepper as funds permit and adjust then. My question, Is this a normal amount of play or should I be concerned? I know the stock answer would be depends on what you are doing, but as I would like to ensure the accuracy before the new wears off I'm asking for what's the low side of what I can expect for play. Thanks, and I've read hundreds of posts in recent days and I must say that I'm glad I chose to go with Sherline. Doug ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:22:03 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Axis Play Dear Doug, From your description related to the Z-axis it sounds like you are measuring the backlash rather than anything that can be adjusted with the gibs. The gibs limit side-to-side play, but backlash can never be completely eliminated with a threaded leadscrew. .005" of backlash (up-down play) in the Z-axis would be about normal. (Backlash is the distance between the contact surfaces of the leadscrew thread when changing direction of rotation. Zero distance would mean both sides of the thread would be in contact at the same time, making it very hard to turn if not impossible.) Though backlash cannot be eliminated, it is accommodated by always approaching your cut from the appropriate direction. When milling with a fly cutter, bring your cutter DOWN to the proper height and then lock the headstock in place with the saddle locking lever. The headstock will then already be at the top extreme of its backlash and cannot be pushed back up by the forces of the fly cutter. When using an end mill, keep in mind that the cutter biting into the surface can tend to pull any backlash out of the Z-axis leadscrew. This can cause the headstock (even if it is locked) to be pulled down slightly during the cut. If you lower the cutter beyond the intended depth by more than the backlash amount and then bring it up to the height of your final cut before locking it in place, you can assure that the mill cannot pull itself down deeper than you had intended during the cut. Experience will teach you what effects backlash will have on your cuts so that you can anticipate them. Remember that you cannot eliminate backlash, but you can eliminate its unwanted effect through proper technique. On the X- and Y-axis gib adjustment, make sure the hole in the gib where the lock pin is inserted is not elongated and also make sure your locking pin is locked in place with the set screw. Once adjusted, the gib should not move, and it certainly should not wear noticeably in only two days. Extending the X-axis all the way and putting an extreme side load on it at the end probably does not represent any force you would likely encounter during milling. Since on a 5400 mill all the cutting takes place pretty much directly over the saddle, your cutter won't have this kind of leverage, so extremely tight gibs are not necessary. Again, make sure that you are not measuring backlash here. Backlash on the X and Y axes is adjusted with the brass star gear where the leadscrew goes into the saddle. See the adjustment description on page 11 of your instruction manual. The proper setting would be about .003" to .005" of backlash. Any additional comments/corrections from experienced users are welcomed. Craig Libuse Sherline ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:00:32 +0200 From: Douglas Burkett Subject: Re: Axis Play Craig, I haven't adjusted backlash on any axis since receiving the mill. I have used a dial indicator and every axis is between .003 and .004 thousands. Having a CNC mill I don't think I have the Z axis lock. Thinking about it, I'm sure you are right with there being little likelyhood that the mill would during normal use not be able to extert the force to cause the y movement. However, I noticed the play when milling along a straight edge by manually rotating the x-axis handwheel. The finish had a wavy feel to it. Allowing the mill to traverse the edge under CNC control produced a smooth finish. But cranking the hand wheel rapidly caused the wavy finish. I guess with the leverage at the extreme extension of the axis I shouldn't turn the handwheel so forcefully? Tightening the gib on the y axis pretty much eliminated the waves. Should I be concerned with getting the gib too tight? Thanks, Doug ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:14:34 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Axis Play Dear Doug, Good handwheel technique would probably eliminate the wavy finsh, since you have noted that it was smooth when the stepper motor was doing the moving. Use a two-handed technique alternating with your fingers on the outer knurled edge of the handwheel rather than using the handle during a cut, or at least for the final pass. (See note on inside back cover of instruction manual and photo Figure 77 on page 41.) The handle is used for rapid position changes, but it can cause you to put left/right forces into the table during a cut. I don't know which CNC system you are using, but most of them have a way to account for backlash in the program. .003" to .004" is within the recommended range. You are correct in that if you ordered a CNC-ready mill we did not include the Z-axis lock. It was felt that inadvertantly locking the Z-axis might cause some damage to the stepper motors, so we leave them off. If you get the gibs too tight it will be difficult for you (or the stepper motor) to move the axis, and the gibs will wear more rapidly, but the tighter they are, the less side-to-side movement you will have. Experiment until you find a combination of play/tightness you like. Craig Libuse Sherline ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:36:52 -0000 From: "flyk35r3" Subject: Backlash Adjustment Speaking of Backlash Adjustment I found it a big PITA to get at the starwheel locking screws without caming them out. I have since substituted button head cap screws and now it is much easier. Gary Severson ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:08:33 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Backlash Adjustment Dear Gary, The old pointer style locks used to use a pan head screw that required a flat bladed screwdriver. The new star gear lock comes with a button head screw, or at least it should. (It requires a hex key to loosen/tighten.) What are you defining as a "button head cap screw" as opposed to the "button head socket screw" that comes with it? Just curious. Craig ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:35:46 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Axis Play |You are correct in that if you ordered a CNC-ready mill we did not include |the Z-axis lock. It was felt that inadvertently locking the Z-axis might |cause some damage to the stepper motors, so we leave them off. Hi, Craig: While I'd expect that inadvertently locking the Z-Axis might result in a bad part, I'd not expect it to damage either a stepper or servo motor. Since a stopped stepper motor often runs with full coil current flowing, I'd not expect any burn out issues. What failure modes would Sherline anticipate? Jerry ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:03:44 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Axis Play Jerry, It was more an issue of ruining the part as you mentioned. We felt including the lock might cause more problems than it solved, but there is no reason anyone who wants to add the lock cannot do so. The lock kit is P/N 4017U. If you are installing a stepper motor mount on a lathe that came with a locking lever, you can decide whether or not you want to reinstall the lock on the new leadscrew. Craig Libuse -------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:05:01 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: Backlash Adjustment Either way, once the mill is attached to a board it is REALLY difficult to get the Allen-key into the socket screw. I find that I need to make this adjustment about every other day, but I use my mill for 4-6 hours continuously per day. I have just moved my rotary table to a new location on the base so that may change how frequently I need to adjust the backlash. Even though the CNC controller program compensates for backlash it still has an adverse effect on the finish quality and less is ALWAYS better. Another complaint, and this one should be easy to fix: why was the mill and CNC-rotary table designed in such a way that the stepper motor mounts on the Y-axis and the rotary table (when vertical) collide and cannot pass? I guess if you mount the rotary table on a tooling plate it will be high enough not to interfere. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:17:16 -0700 From: Randy Gordon-Gilmore Subject: Y motor, was Re: Backlash Adjustment At 06:05 PM 6/11/2002 -0400, Daniel wrote: >Another complaint, and this one should be easy to fix: why was the >mill and CNC-rotary table designed in such a way that the stepper >motor mounts on the Y-axis and the rotary table (when vertical) >collide and cannot pass? This happened to me with my 3" toolmaker's vise overhanging the front of the table. The mount (and motor) were about a 10-15 thou above the table surface, which I corrected with a large mill file and black Magic Marker for touchup. I don't think that the problem would necessarily be easy to fix, since it involves the location of the Y leadscrew and nut, the dimensions of a Size 23 motor, and the thickness of the mill table. Filing the motor (actually, just the endbell in my case) and mount was the easy fix... Best regards, Randy ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:20:45 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: Y motor, was Re: Backlash Adjustment That was the easy fix I was looking for. I agree that Sherline would not have an easy fix since their tooling is already set-up the way it is. So far it has just been a slight annoyance and hasn't prevented anything except some eyeball alignment I was going to do with an endmill on the top of the rotary table and couldn't move it over far enough. Trial-and-error worked really well for that one. Thanks, Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:42:33 -0700 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Backlash Adjustment Hi Dan, Perhaps they assumed it would be mounted on the adjustable angle table? Are you using the tailstock with the rotary table? Just curious. I'm trying to get the rotary table on an adjustable angle table, AND the tailstock all to play together on my old Sears/Sherline (5000) mill! My mill is on a slab of 1" aluminum, about 12" x 16". So I KNOW how hard it is to get to the backlash adjustment for the X axis (last night)! My backlash nut is stripped (and probably the pointer too), so I've got them on order. No CNC 'till then! I WISH I could use the new Allen head button screw, instead of trying to get the little pointer engaged w/ the nut. The new design sounds like an improvement! I think I'm getting a new 5400 Deluxe mill soon! Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:01:02 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: Backlash Adjustment I have made a few Key fobs and necklace pendants from some 3/8" diameter titanium barstock and have used the tailstock with the rotary table. It is an adjustable tailstock, so it was simple to use. Generally, I do not use the tailstock for my rings. The new backlash adjustment star-point washer is simple to use, just a pain to get to. Dan. ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:05:43 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Backlash Adjustment "why was the mill and CNC-rotary table designed in such a way that the stepper motor mounts on the Y-axis and the rotary table (when vertical) collide and cannot pass? I guess if you mount the rotary table on a tooling plate it will be high enough not to interfere." Hi Dan, The rotary table and mill were designed twenty-some years ago, and they were designed so that the handwheels did clear each other. The addition of larger 23-frame stepper motor mounts was simply not anticipated at the time the original dimensions were determined. If we were designing the components from scratch now, you can be sure we would have made sure they cleared, but we had to adapt the existing designs to meet new requirements and did the best we could. At the end of the instructions we provide a drawing for a simple riser plate that will overcome the problem. We sell the plates, but also provide the drawing in case people want to make their own. As you note, the tooling plate will also eliminate the problem. Craig Libuse Sherline ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:23:33 -0700 From: Randy Gordon-Gilmore Subject: Re: Backlash Adjustment At 07:01 PM 6/11/2002 -0400, Alan wrote: > night)! My backlash nut is stripped (and probably the pointer too), so > I've got them on order. No CNC 'till then! I WISH I could use the new My order of Moglice just came, so when I work up the gumption I'll be casting new almost-no-backlash leadscrew nuts for my mill and lathe per Ron Ginger's guidelines a year or so back on the cad_cam_edm_dro list. I had ordered new starwashers to go on my backlash nuts (mine came with pointers, one of which I lost) and discovered too late that they were not interchangable (I think I didn't read closely enough before I ordered). Best regards, Randy ------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:11:00 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Rotary table interference, was Backlash Adjustment Craig: Actually the solution is simple on Sherline's end, at least for the interference I am experiencing. It occurs for me when the rotary table is mounted on the 90 degree angle plate. Just make the base of the angle plate thicker and raise the rotary table, it looks like a small amount. Obviously the tailstock would need to be raised the same amount. Seems simple to me, and nothing on the mill needs to be altered. Or as suggested, I can just mount everything on a tooling plate. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:13:02 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Re: Backlash Adjustment > Mine came with phillips head screws. Gary, You are correct, all the old examples I see around here have phillips heads, but the old drawing I looked at appeared to have a single slot in the head. The new star gears are slightly larger than the old pointer, so the hole must be about a half a hole further away from the leadscrew, which is why they aren't interchangeable. Craig Libuse Sherline ------- Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:55:37 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Rotary table interference, was Backlash Adjustment Dear Dan, Nothing is ever quite as simple as it seems. Increasing the height of the rotary table would require new parts for both the tilting angle table and the right angle attachment as well as the taller right angle tailstock base you mention. None of these parts would work in conjunction with units already out there. The right angle tailstock also works with the indexing attachment, so it would also have to be changed or we'd have to have two different versions. Within days we'd be getting complaints from people who bought the new right angle tailstock and it wasn't the same height as their 3-year old tilting angle table. We would end up having to stock duplicate parts for all three attachments for years and keep track of which was which. CNC rotary tables are becoming more popular, but they still represent a small portion compared to the number of manual rotary tables sold, and only the CNC rotary tables have this problem, so for now we will have to live with the riser plate (or tooling plate) solution. If we were a software manufacturer things would be much simpler. We would simply tell you that the new version is not compatible with your old hardware and you have to buy all new stuff. Craig Libuse Sherline ------- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:37:35 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: sherline adjustable handwheels Devin, When reinstalling the Z-axis handwheel, lift the headstock up by hand as far as it will go and push the handwheel down until it seats against the thrust before you tighten the set screw. This should remove the backlash. Same thing on the table. Push the table toward the handwheel while pushing the handwheel against the thrust before tightening the set screw. On the X and Y axes you can further adjust backlash using the antibacklash screws. See your instruction manual on page 11 for an explanation and a drawing of how they work. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:29:05 +0200 From: Douglas Burkett Subject: Fly Cutting I'm attempting to use the fly cutter to square a surface, the back of the cutter is taking a cut too. Which as I understand is supposed to happen. However the shape of the part prevents me from making a complete pass with the cutter, both front and back. Is there something I can do to lessen the cut of the back side? It is taking a couple of thousandths and causing a step on the finished surface because it doesn't pass across the entire surface. Thanks, Doug ------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:34:41 -0400 From: "j.guenther" Subject: RE: Fly Cutting Doug: Check the alignment of the head on you mill. Make sure it is perfectly square to both the x and y axis, this is known as tramming the head. John Guenther Sterling, Virginia List Mom ------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:54:04 +0200 From: Douglas Burkett Subject: Re: Fly Cutting I'm using the 5400 mill, I don't think it has an adjustment for squaring the spindle to the table. As least not for the y-axis. The shape of the part is forcing me to use the y-axis to traverse it. The short travel and length of the part won't allow the fly cutter to move over the entire part. Thanks, Doug ------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:13:07 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Fly Cutting Doug, In Joe's instructions for using the fly cutter he notes that even with the head perfectly square, a fly cutter will take a cut of one or two thoushandths on the back side, usually due to tool deflection on the first pass on the front side. This doesn't mean your mill is out of alignment. Since you can't make a full pass with a fly cutter, is it possible for you to machine this surface with an end mill instead? It may take longer and the finish may require more sanding, but it would at least be flat. By the way, if your 5400 mill IS out of alignment, the column can be adjusted by using shims. For help on aligning your mill see www.sherline.com/millalin.htm. Craig Libuse Sherline ------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:56:52 +0200 From: Douglas Burkett Subject: Re: Fly Cutting Craig, I took your advice, used an endmill and a CNC cycle to mill the surface. Actually I like the finish much better than the fly cutter. With the overlaps of return travel the surface actually has a sort of decorative finish. I'm not sure I understand the sanding part though. I can't imagine that I could sand it any more flat than I could mill it flat. Doug ------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:16:01 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: Flattening a piece of aluminum Folks: I recently picked up a piece of aluminum extrusion that I'd like to make into a sacrificial plate for my Sherline mill. I've noticed that the aluminum is not exactly flat (it rocks a little when set on the mill table). It would seem that I should do the equivalent of jointing one surface to make it flat, and then planing the other surface to make it parallel to the first surface. I believe this can be done with a fly cutter on the mill. How would you suggest clamping the piece so I don't remove the warp by twisting the material? The piece is about 4 x 7 inches and about 1/2 inch thick. Thanks, Carol & Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:18:56 -0500 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: Flattening a piece of aluminum Clamp one end of the plate down and shim the end that is raised off the table and then clamp. Forrest ------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:25:23 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Flattening a piece of aluminum Jerry: When my dad used to make aerospace models they would get parts that weren't flat (like stainless steel wing sections) that had to have flats milled on them. They would mix up a batch of Bond-o and bed the part into it on another plate. Two-part Bond-o dries pretty quickly. The base is then clamped to the mill table. It's a little messy, but it leaves the whole top side of the part free of clamps and puts no clamping stress on the part. Once one side is machined flat on your part, you would just break up the bondo with a hammer to release the part. The excess Bond-o chips off the part pretty easily. You'd then have one flat side to work from. I am told, however, that extruded material can have internal stresses that, when relieved by drilling or machining, can cause the plate to warp further. That is why we use cast plate for our tooling plates. Cast plate has less internal stressing than extruded material. We were fortunate to have our model shop next to an auto body shop, so Bond-o was in ready supply. In fact, they used so much of it next door, we used to call the shop owner "Leonardo de Bondo". We found that it is handy stuff that has lots of uses besides just fixing dents in cars. The Bond-o technique may or may not apply here, but you might keep it in mind for particularly difficult to hold parts in the future. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:04:23 -0000 From: "tojo46" Subject: Dovetails I am new owner of a sherline 6000 package. I plan primarily on using it for dollhouse furniture and model ship making. One of my uses will be to cut dovetails in dollhouse furniture (1/12th scale). Looking for any helpful hints on using the mill to cut dovetails. I did purchase the 10,000 rpm pulley upgrade for woodworking. Tim Illinois ------- Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 15:21:50 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Dovetails Tim: I have not built doll house furniture however I have machined a number of small wood projects. End mills, dental burs and abrasive stones can be used on wood in the same way they would be on metal. I have had better finish cuts with dental burs than with dremel burs. I would also suggest the use of wood hardener before machining wood. On course grain wood like oak I have used super glue with good results. If you plan to stain the wood , hardeners may give you a problem. you will just have to experiment. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 16:09:50 -0400 From: Tom Bank Subject: Re: Dovetails Tim: Dremel makes an engraving bit, #108, that is a dovetail with a 1/32" diameter at the wide end. That would be 3/8" in doll house scale. They also make a similar 1/16" bit if you wanted to model 3/4" dovetails. They then have a router attachment for the standard model Dremel tools -- not the flexshaft models. You would have your choice between going down to your woodworking tool supply store or Sears and looking at a dovetail fingerboard setup and machining a small copy of it, or just skip the Dremel router, buy the appropriate Sherline cutter holder, clamp your wood stock to a flat board on the mill table and cut your dovetails. The former alternative, done right, will make it easier to line up the two pieces of wood so the dovetails come out even. The later alternative, since you have the mill, would be cheaper. If you are doing very much of this work, there is an advantage to having specialized tools for cutting miniature dovetails. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 13:41:06 -0700 From: Wm. Dubin Subject: 'T' slot cutting I want to cut a 't'-slot in compound slide for a large lathe to enable me to use a quick-change tool post. My only way of doing this is with my Sherline mill. I understand using a straight mill cutter to do the verticle part of the slot, and I assumed I should use a Woodruff cutter for the horizontal cut. However, every catalogue I have lists these cutters with a 1/2" shank, which is to big for my holder (3/8"). There is the option of using the 1/2" in the 3-jaw chuck, but most authors I've read caution against this (and the drill chuck)for holding milling cutters. So, anyone have any ideas on this... either where to get the smaller shank cutter, or another method altogether? Thanks, Wm. Dubin ------- Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:31:09 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: 'T' slot cutting Hi, Wm.: The easiest way I know is to check out a Taig dealer and purchase one of the blank arbors that they sell. Take about 0.090 off of the drilled and tapped end. Then, thread the arbor on the headstock, bore and ream a 0.5 inch hole in the undrilled end of the arbor. Add a threaded hole for a set-screw and you've got your 1/2 inch arbor. I built one a while back and am quite satisfied with the results. The arbor costs only a couple of bucks, so you may even want to buy a few. -- Jerry ------- Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 16:54:37 -0700 From: Wm. Dubin Subject: Re: 'T' slot cutting Jerry, I had considered this, as other people have mentioned the Taig arbor before. I've not tried using a Woodruff cutter, do you think a Sherline mill, using the Taig arbor and the correct Woodruff cutter would be stable enough to cut through steel? (an unknown steel, but this is a JET lathe, so I doubt it's a better quality). Any hints on using the Woodruff cutter? Thanks, Wm. -------- Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 00:31:43 -0000 From: "flyk35r3" Subject: Re: 'T' slot cutting Is it possible to bore out a standard sherline mill holder to 1/2". A real T-slot cutter has stagered teeth. My concern with a woodruff cutter is that you will get all the swarf jammed in there because there is no relief. You might play around with grinding relief on your woodruff cutter. I have not done this before, so I don't know if it is feasable. Gary Severson ------- Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:00:24 -0700 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: 'T' slot cutting Hi Wm: You will find that a Tee slot cutter or a woodruff cutter will be very difficult to use on something as small as a Sherline. These kinds of cutters vibrate quite heavily, even on a Bridgeport. The reason is that they are of fairly large diameter, and have wide teeth. Each tooth takes a full width bite; it's a bit like trying to use a 1/4" wide parting blade in the lathe. A far better option is to nibble it out with a skinny flycutter. It will be dreadfully slow, but it can be done and it will be far less risky in my opinion. Be sure to stabilize the machine column with a clamped on reinforcement if you can, and make your setup as robust as you can. This means the stubbiest cutter you can get away with (keeps the cutting forces close to the front spindle bearing.) Use lots of clamps to hold your workpiece down. Grind your tool fairly skinny (no wider than 1/8") and take light cuts.(about 0.010 per pass should work) If you can, drill some holes through the area the the undercut areas of the tee slots will occupy first, to reduce the burden of metal that you have to nibble out with the cutter. It will be a long pair of holes to make it all the way through the width of the compound slide, but they will help a lot! You may even be able to drill these holes with the compound slide blocked up into position on the lathe. It's going to be cast iron, and should drill really easily compared to steel. Best bet is to scribble on the sides of the compound with some felt marker, and then lay out the profile of the tee slot on both sides of the compound. DRILL THE HOLES FIRST before you do any of the other milling operations!!!! Give yourself a good 0.025" per side stock allowance for the drilled holes. So if its a 0.250" wide slot, your drill should be no bigger than 0.200" dia and could be as small as 0.150". Just means a bit more work for the flycutter! Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:24:05 -0700 From: Wm. Dubin Subject: Re: 'T' slot cutting Thanks to everyone who replied on the 'T' slot cutting question. From everything written here, plus the advice of some friends not on Sherline, it seems that doing it on the mill would be a basically BAD idea. I checked with a locale machine shop, and they wanted $400.00 to do the job,