This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Here are users' suggestions on modifications to their Sherline metal lathes and Sherline milling machines. Naturally many of the ideas or modifications applicable to the Taig mill and lathe can be adapted to use on Sherline machines. Please read those Taig files too. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. 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(c) Copyright 2003 - 2015 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:51:52 -0500 From: ron ginger Subject: Re: alternate use of Mill or Lathe Daniel Munoz wrote: > I have maybe a strange question. Please forgive me in advance. > I wondered if there is some known use of Sherline Mill or Lathe, to > transform then into alternate tools. > My goal is model ship building, and I want to buy some Sherline tools not > because there are absolutely necessary to build wood ship, but because I > like beautiful machinery tools (and surely I'll do some other stuff with > them too!). > But, as a ship modeler, I also need a table saw, and/or a jigsaw, a disk > sander, a grinder... and I was thinking watching the sherline catalog > and in the same time the Small Parts catalog that maybe some > transformations could be possible (and save some $$$!). Yes, it is very possible. I also do ship modeling, and have built a few additions to my Sherline, and planned a couple more that I have not yet done. I made a thickness sander by placing a sanding drum in the lathe spindle, and making a wedge to fit on top of the tool table. The wedge is a 10:1 taper, and is the same width and length as the table. For each .001 of advance of the wedge the wood gets thiner by .0001. Makes it possible to sand wood to very accurate thickness, for sizes up to about 1/4" thick, and width of over 2". I will try to photograph this setup and post a picture. I planned to make a table saw. Put a 4" slitting saw blade into the saw arbor in the lathe position. Make an aluminum table to fit just over the top of the headstock. It shuold be supported on a peg of about 1/2" dia. To hold this to the lathe bed I made the WR Smith toolpost, and use the base of the toolpost to hold the table. For a fence I would make a Z shaped piece of aluminum to bolt to the tool table. You can then set the width of the cut from the leadscrew, so you can make very accurate rip cuts. A grinder is very easy, just put a grindstone on the arbor, and use the tool rest. Unimat sells this, but I thnk Sherline does not suggest it because of liability reasons. If you claim a machine is a grinder, then you must provide very strong guards over the wheel FOr such small wheels I would do it myslef, but I would not sell it to someone else. I also made a lathe tracer tool for making duplicate parts like cannons or rail stanchions. For this I made a simple holder to hold a flat pattern of the shape I want to turn. I place this on the back edge of the tool table. I made an aluminum block, about a 1" cube. This has two steel pins that protrude from one side. The lower one is a pointer that follows the pattern, the upper one is exaclty on lathe centerline and is a cutting tool. It is important that both the guide pin and the tool be shaped the same. I have made two of them, one has a round nose tool, the other has a square nose to get up to the edge of parts. The tool is held down on the table and freehand moved to follow the template. This works well for both wood and brass turnings. A simple skotch yoke driven in the lathe could make a recriprocating saw or a die filer. There is a book of accessories for the Unimat, most of which could be made for the Sherline. I think the book has been out of print but I recently saw an ad for a reprint. Of course my sensitive drill attachment would also be very useful for ship models- there are pictures of that on the egroups site and my web page http://plsntcov.8m.com Ah, lots of good ideas, just not enough time to make them all.... ron ginger ------- Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 18:11:18 -0500 From: Tom Bank Subject: Re: bigger mill ??? -One thing I have thought would be nice, in this regard, would be a table on the Sherline mill with three T-slots, each spaced the same distance apart as the current two. In other words, a wider table. As for the idea of making (cobbling together) a bigger mill with a Sherline head, that's the way I started out. I got the lathe and the vertical column, then bought a Delta bench top drill press base and column. Took a piece of large pipe that was laying around and made a couple of bearings to fit between the pipe and the column. Then my son welded brackets to the pipe to hold a long square chunk of aluminum, onto which the Sherline vertical column, less the black base piece, was mounted. A "feature" of this assembly was that the aluminum piece could easily be pulled out of the bracket and reinserted with a quarter turn, then the head could be flipped up and the setup used as a horizontal mill. Distance from column to cutter was much greater than on the Sherline mill, actually out to the center of the originally designed drill press table, which was 8" or 10". For a movable table, I used a Palmgren 8" rotary table with X-Y slides that I bought new from Sears many years ago. They had picked up a lot of them a number of years before that, hadn't sold them, and finally sold them off on special sale at a fraction of their original (years before) price. The setup worked, but like the Sherline 2000, you had to clamp it really tight or a cut could grab and throw the column registration off. I planned to slot the pipe and put a screw-in pin in the drill press column to prevent rotation of the milling head while in use. I bought a Pacific Rim X-Y table for it, I think from Enco, but then found that the slop built into it was unworkable. After about a year I traded the X-Y table for a bunch of Railroad model kits and parts and then bought the Sherline 5400 and their horizontal conversion plate (which makes the whole mill extremely stable and quiet in operation). I have never looked back. Still have the pieces other than that table, but have never had a need to dust them off. Bought the Sherline rotary table and haven't even used the Palmgren on my drill press since. I only keep that part because my son might need it at some point in the future in his full scale hobby work. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:48:55 +1100 From: "Charlie Lear" Subject: Re: Re: 2000 Mill column rotation? On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 06:46:28 -0000, ballendox~xxyahoo.com wrote: >idea!(look at the relief in the slides of sherline machines) If the >outer 3/16 of the round were kept flat, and the interior relieved a >few thou, the "stackup" will stay the same height, BUT... >The central bolt will now apply pressure at the periphery, where the >leverage will be maximised to resist rotation. Of course the centre must be relieved, else it will rock. I don't like the idea of forming a taper on the faces at all, as depending on the angle they will behave as a portion of a sphere and allow the assembly to slip and rock. The securing bolt and matching hole will have to be made to very fine tolerances to stop that happening. I'm very sure Joe thought of all this while coming up with the design! However, if you relieve too much, you are increasing the crushing force on the faces, because the same torque on the nut is transferring the load to a much smaller area on the contact faces. I agree with you, except we are dealing with aluminium here, and the natural tendency to overtighten (especially when things slip!). You need a relatively wide contact face for this - more than 3/16" in my opinion (open to correction). >graphically show this (like the rice paper?) Or is the plan to have >the rice paper act as an inhibitor of rotation? To be replaced with >something else later? The rice paper is an old turners' trick to stop sliding between machined faces. Use it when mounting part-finished work on the faceplate, on a boring table or in a machine vice. In addition to stopping the tendency to slip, it also reduces markings on the finished work. Don't bother using it on rough surfaces (eg a raw casting, or hot rolled steel). The reason rice paper is used, is that it is very common and cheap (cigarette papers are available from everywhere that sells pipe tobacco), is uniformly good quality, and is only a thou or slightly less thick. In the days when almost all people smoked and those in the mechanical trades "rolled their own" it would be a rare machinist without a packet. Don't use cartridge paper as I've seen mentioned elsewhere, it is too thick and will compress unevenly depending on the grain of the paper. My reason for suggesting it is that it is a "proof of concept" - if it stops the 2000 head rotating under climb milling, then replace it later with a friction washer made from thin annealed copper or red fibre. I don't know about various gasket materials - they may be too thick and/or compress too much, you'll have to experiment. Of course, if you're lazy like me, and find that the rice paper stops it slipping, there isn't really much need to use anything else unless you move it all the time. Cheers Charlie Lear, Melbourne, Australia Hutt Valley Model Engineer Soc. http://steammachine.com/hvmes Eastern Bays Little Blue Penguin Foundation: same site /penguins ------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:34:44 -0000 From: "Bill Lindsey" Subject: Work Stop for Sherline Mill Having found similar devices helpful over the years on full size mills, especailly for making multiple identical parts (columns, legs, etc)I thought it might be a nice addition to my Sherline as well. I posted a picture of the finished result in the files section of the group under "millstop.jpg." There may be other workstops out there but haven't seen one from Sherline. The design of this one using generously sized CRS may be overkill, but with reasonable care in positioning work, deflection should be nill and repeatability good. The swing arm can be adjusted from either side for those times when one side may be too close to the vise or other workholder and the whole assembly can be turned around 180 degrees if an extra inch or two is needed, though the brass 10-24 screw would also need to be reversed and inserted from the opposite side of the swing arm. Anyway, it was a fun project and one which I hope yielded a useful addition to the toolbox. I may have the wrong terminology but that is what I have always called it. As for use, if you have multiple pieces to mill to length or several pieces requiring a drilled hole at the same location along the length, then you can make the original set-up, position the work stop at the end of the work piece, and then simply slide the other pieces into the vise one at a time until they touch the stop and the remainder of your settings should remain the same ( or at least close enough for many tasks). I have found it helpful also for milling multiple lengths of rod, for examply to the same length. There are also stops that fit over the fixed vise jaw and those that may attach to the back of the vise with a rod extending outward to the side and an arm that fits over that rod which can be positioned outside of the jaws and running in the "Y" direction to serve the same purpose. ------- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:48:38 -0500 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: B&D Screwdriver as parts source for lead-screw drive? I picked up a Black & Decker Versapak battery powered screwdriver. I bought the Sherline lathe with the threading attachment, so I got some of the parts that go on the end of the lead screw opposite the knob. I made a piece that had a hole bored in one end to clear the shaft that comes out of the lathe and had a notch to catch the pin on the shaft. The other end had a hex to fit into the socket on the screwdriver. It works pretty well, except that the batteries don't last as long as I'd like. I might start checking into building a small power supply for it. The advantage over the Sherline provided item is both dollars out of pocket and the ability to reverse the drive direction. I noticed that the current (March-April) edition of HSM uses parts from the same screwdriver to make a threading attachment. If I add the power supply, I might just take the screwdriver apart and mount it on the table. Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 02:39:37 -0400 From: "Rich D." Subject: Sherline Mods in Files Area I have placed in the "SHERLINE" Files area, in the Folder "Rich D's Views" http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/files/Rich%20D%27s%20Views/ a pic of the Saddle nut mod for lash adjustment. Simply saw cut thru the center of the threaded portion and squeeze closed enough to obtain the needed fit. To open up, should you over do it, force a wedge into to slot. The nut is hard bearing bronze. Also in a seperate folder "Spindle Lock" are a series of pics showing my attempt at a spindle locking device. This is not for the faint of heart. Drilling into the head as shown will miss the vital parts. Use the lock pin (a slight pip was left on the top) to score a line on the pulley underside then divide for 4 holes. There should be enough clues to build your own version. Have fun, Rich D. ------- Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 13:36:53 -0000 From: n2562001x~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Sherline Saddle nut Mods Rich, I have never been able to figure out the problem with backlash. I have found my most accurate work is done when the gibs are as loose as possible and I have at least .010" backlash. I like to be able to feel what is happening. At any rate I looked at my saddle nut and I would suggest you make your cut about .200" from the top or the bottom. There is more than enough material at any point on the nut to drill and tap a 0/80 or 1/72 cap screw for compression. You may want to use stainless for strength. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:51:40 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Spindle Thread Subject: [sherline] Spindle Thread > Can anybody tell me if the spindle thread is 3/4 - 16 UNF or 3/4 -16 > SAE I want to buy a tap to make a special mounting plate Thanks Mike Mike, the thread is called out on the plans as UNF. --Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:20:56 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Spindle Thread > I've tried to order (MSC, etc) that size tap and die twice, please let > me know where you find it! Ballendo suggested mounting a Dremel tool on > the Sherline's Z axis, to replace the spindle for PCB work. Alan KM6VV Alan, The 3/4-16 spindle nose threads and the internal threads on the chucks are single-pointed on CNC machines to UNF specs, but we do have some 3/4-16 UNF taps that were purchased from MSC. Keep trying. In our shop, we have mounted Do-All grinders on our machines for special operations. I have also given thought to the installation of a Fordom grinder in our headstock body. You can order a blank headstock casing (P/N 40100, $50.00) and either sleeve down or bore out the bearing journals out to the size of your Dremel or Fordom tool. Perhaps split the top and crossbolt to grip the tool. When required, just swap headstocks. There might be a market for a product like this for jewelers and engravers (hint to the person looking for accessories to make--perhaps Fordom would even be interested...). Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 17:29:43 -0000 From: blscopesx~xxsympatico.ca Subject: RE: Spindle Thread When buying a 3/4" x 16 UNF tap for accessories to thread on the Sherline spindle it is important to specify the "H Limit" number. The H Limit number tells you in half thousands how far above nominal the pitch diameter is. e.g. H1 is .0005 above nominal (.7505"), H3 is .0015 above nominal (.7515"). The Sherline spindle does not have a "Register" and relies on the thread alone to maintain concentricity. A 3/4" x 16 UNF tap with an H1 limit should work fine. When I make adaptors that will thread on a lathe spindle I usually cut about 98% of the thread on the lathe and then finish with a tap. Gordon, Toronto ------- Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 01:47:22 -0000 From: blscopesx~xxsympatico.ca Subject: Re: Spindle Thread Alan: to the best of my knowledge the H Limit does not apply to Dies as they are normally adjustable. My 3/4" x 16 die has sufficient range to cover taps from H1 to H3. Gordon, Toronto -------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 20:26:40 -0400 From: "Rich D." Subject: Re: Re: Accessory Update Part 2 (SPEED) > I have this same question!! Would it be worth while to make a > new pully ratios for the sheline mill to increase the speed? When you > guys talk small tools what diameter are you guys talking about??? > Would it be good to increase the spindle speed for lets say a 1/8" > endmill??? thanks tauseef tauseef, You read me mind! Mine is now 1/1. Measured motor speed only pulling the spindle is 5800 rpm. I need this for engraving work using single edge cutters with tips as small as .010 dia. The only real problem is the drive belt. The existing belt is apparently made by a Japanese outfit and there are, as yet no useable web site or catalog. I am in the process of contacting them, but on an alternate thought, maybe I should steer clear of hard to find stuff and stick to locally available material. Presently I'm using a 3/16" cord O-Ring but, this clearly is not the solution as the centrifugal speed is throwing it out too far. Buna-N O-Rings are 70A durometer, tooo soft. Other small V section belts are also hard to find. None that matches the Sherline belt. A 1/1 drive needs a shorter belt (270-280mm) using the existing brackets. Alternately, I have a small selection of timing belts of 0.080 pitch from SDP/Sterling that may fit the bill perfectly. All I need now are the grooved pulleys machined to fit and I'm done. These come in a wide range of sizes and types and are not too expensive to experiment with. I use them for the Z drive on my CNC 5400 mill. Real nice. Rich D. ------- Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 20:07:24 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: Re: Accessory Update Part 2 Tauseef, I could use more spindle speed when I cut with a 0.025" endmill. The max speed of the Sherline motor is just barely enough for this size cutter. Here is an example of one of my milled "Greek Key" rings: http://members.rennlist.com/statmandesigns/style-X.html Dan. ------- Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 00:00:04 -0400 From: "Rich D." Subject: Re: Re: Accessory Update Part 2 Daniel, the motor spindle is not the problem. It already runs at ~6000 rpm. The headstock bearings are large and greased. I'm running at 5800 rpm, seems to be fighting the grease. I may have to add a drop of 30wt machine oil to each one. High speed bearing operation can only use oil. If you need to go higher, a different motor and spindle is advisable. These are sold for this purpose at: http://www.visionengravers.com/html/spindles.html Cutters: http://www.engraverschoice.com/Products/products.html ------- Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:14:28 -0000 From: blscopesx~xxsympatico.ca Subject: Handwheel Backlash To eliminate handwheel backlash, it would be necessary to devise a system of providing tension between the handwheel bearing and the handwheel itself. In most other machinery, handwheels are threaded on the leadscrew and secured with a lock nut. This system makes it easy to eliminate backlash and provide "drag" on the handwheel so that it will stay in position. A simple solution for Sherline equipment would be to drill and tap the handwheel end of the leadscrew to accept a small socket head cap screw, say 5-40. In addition, a washer with 1/2" OD, drilled with a clearance hole for the abovementioned screw and with a 1/4" recess in case the leadscrew protrudes through the handwheel. Note: it would necessary to modify this procedure if the larger handwheels are used. When installed, the cap screw is tightened so that there is some drag and then secured with the set screw in the handwheel. With regard to thrust bearings, I have had good success using acetal/delrin. The washers only have to be about .020" thick and it is best if they are "NOT" lubricated. Gordon, Toronto ------- From: "Craig Libuse" Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 12:42 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] Sherline Mill to Lathe Conversion Dear Ed, Sherline doesn't make a mill-to-lathe conversion, but you can purchase any Sherline lathe without a motor and speed control to save some money and use the headstock/motor/speed control from your mill. (Call for prices or have your dealer call us..it's not on the price list.) If you switch often, however, you'll probably want a complete lathe eventually so you don't have to keep aligning the headstock with each swap. Craig Libuse Sherline Products --------------------- From: myjakjsx~xxa... Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 5:48 pm Subject: Re: Sherline Mill to Lathe Conversion In sherline, WolframEdx~xxc... wrote: > I have just begun to explore my 5400 series mill and was > wondering if there was a conversion kit to go from milling to lathe > (I have seen references to a lathe to mill conversion) Thanks Ed Ed, Take a look at my site to see how I use my mill as a lathe. www.geocities.com/myjakjs/sherline.html John ------- Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 00:27:57 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: How to use cut-off tool with riser blocks? Bill: If Craig gets your parting tool riser out the door in the next day or so, maybe he can start on another project - decent way covers for the Y-Axis of the mill. Of all their lead screws (Lathe & Mill), that looks to me to be the only one that's not protected from the swarf that machining turns out. Right now, I'm using some light card stock folded back and forth to simulate a bellows. It does decently, but I'd really prefer something more permanent. Have any of you folks got any better ideas? Thanks, Carol & Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 00:45:47 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Way Covers (used to be---Re: How to use cut-off tool with riser blocks?) Bill - As a starter, you might want to take some 60 pound card stock and bend it in an accordion fashion. I did that with two sheets and it seems to work pretty decently. Don't know how it will wear as I start using some cutting fluids. Right now, I'm doing aluminum & brass and am running dry except for some tapped holes. Staples or one of the other so-called office superstores should have the cardstock. Carol & Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:20:41 -0000 From: jtecx~xxcnw.com Subject: re: Way Covers Visit your family dentist and get him to sell you a full sheet or two of "rubber dam". The material is very tough, usually grey in color, and will stretch way beyond it's relaxed dimensions. From there, get creative ------- From: Terry Godwin Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 8:58 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] duplicator Dave, there currently is no duplicator made specifically for the Sherline. Vanda-Lay made one but he has gone out of the manufacturing business and none are available. I have one of these and they do work. It is fairly easy to adapt duplicators made for other desk top lathes. One in particular is the Anker now sold (made) by Pennstate. They are shown at http://www.pennstateind.com/duplicat.html I originally had an anker duplicator for my Unimat. I sold it along with the Unimat when I upgraded to Sherline. A mistake. I think the Anker is a better duplicator than the Vanda-Lay and wish I still had it. It would have been pretty simple to adapt to my Sherline. Good Luck Terry ------- From: "Yasmiin Davis" Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 12:06 am Subject: RE: [sherline] duplicator : for metal ?? In machines a bit larger than these they are called tracers -- usually hydraulic tracers. They are a technology that has been replaced by CNC but these attachments work essentially the same as your duplicator. Since metal is a but more resistant to cutting the follower is usually driven by some hydraulic link to the cross slide much like a taper attachment but the tracer is able to move the cross slide back and forth to follow a contour that is the master. Yasmiin ------- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:19:10 -0000 From: n5wrxx~xxhome.com Subject: Tightness in the center .... Hi, I am new to this group and have a question perhaps you can help me with. I bought a new Sherline lathe and am using it to make pens. I am using a long lever arm to control the cross feed table for faster movement. The problem is that the table seems to be tighter in the center of the bed than at either end. Here is a link to a photo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/penturners/files/Willee%27s%20Pens/lever1.jpg Any suggestions? ------- Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 02:53:13 -0000 From: witstockx~xxmail.ohio.net Subject: Re: Tightness in the center .... I have the same attachment for my lathe and have used it to make many different objects with no difficulty. My first thought would be to make certain that the carriage moves freely when not attached to the lever arm. Secondly I would check to make certain that you had the mounting for the arm located correctly. The template for placing the mounting is different for the long and short bed lathes. The placement could affect the middle more than the ends if it is too close to the lathe. It certainly beats turning the handwheel over and over again. Good luck, Nelson, K8DJC ------- Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 03:53:40 -0000 From: witstockx~xxmail.ohio.net Subject: Re: Tightness in the center .... I purchased it from an outfit called HUT Products as what they call a Carriage Control System. They are online at www.hutproducts.com. To use it you disconnect the carriage from the lead screw and connect it to a bracket which is on the arm. Moving the arm them moves the carriage back and forth. For repetitious work like making a batch of pens or whatever it saves a lot of time and effort. It comes with a small knob as the handle which I replaced with a hand-sized turned handle for preventing the dents I was geting in my hand from the little knob. Nelson ------- Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:58:24 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Re: Sherline FlashCUT CNC Package > second, the spindle speed is way too slow for milling or engraving with > tiny cutters; Marcus et al, This gives me the perfect opportunity to let you all know that Sherline now offers a 10,000 RPM pulley set for the headstock. It was done at the request of our CNC customers and jewelers. It came too late to make the new catalog but will be known as P/N 4335 and goes for $75.00. It takes about 10 minutes to remove the old pulleys and standoffs and install the new ones. It also has a second pulley position (like the "hi torque" position on the other set) that gives a maximum speed similar to the present standard pulley position...about 2200 RPM max. The high speed set can also be ordered as a complete headstock/motor/speed control unit preassembled as P/N 33070 for $75 above to price of the regular unit. ($260.00 + $75.00 = $335.00). We just showed the first production units at the PRIME show and I heard it run for the first time. I was expecting 10,000 RPM to be more impressive, but it sounds just as quiet as 2800 RPM on the old unit. Torque is also amazingly high considering the motor is being geared up instead of down. I am now even more impressed with the motor and its capabilities than before. The bearings in the headstock are the same ones we use for the regular setup. We checked with the manufacturer and they said 10K RPM should be no problem. We test ran it at 10,200 RPM for 5 hours straight and you could still put your hand on the headstock without it being too hot. We do loosen up the preload on the bearings from .0002" of end play to .0003" to free it up a bit and recommend that the user do that in a retrofit as well. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 10:51:00 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Re: Sherline FlashCUT CNC Package > Mind telling us which machine is used to do which operation, using > what tools, and if the tools are available from Sherline? Dear Mickey, Everyone who comes for the factory tour gets to see the setup in operation. A photo of the drilling/facing operation is shown at www.sherline.com/factour.htm in the photo factory tour. It is basically a sherline mill XY table by itself with four toolposts mounted to it. A Sherline headstock/motor unit mounted oposite the table holds the blanks. (The collet blanks are first turned, threaded and parted off on the Mazak barfeed CNC machine.) Then they are loaded into the spindle of this fixture. The first toolpost holds a center drill, the second a drill, the third a boring tool and the 4th a cutter to produce the curved face. The collet is then moved to a Sherline 8700 CNC rotary table just off to the right of the photo where the collet is slit every 120° with a fine slitting saw. Coolant is applied using a simple gravity drip bottle. This operation is also run by a Flashcut controller. The operator loads the parts, applies a little coolant with a brush to each tool, pushes the start button and is then free to assemble chucks or grind chuck jaws while the part runs. An operation like this could easily be put together by using components of a Sherline mill or by purchasing slides and spindles from Sherline's industrial site at www.sherlineIPD.com. (Industrial Products Division). Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:47:02 -0000 From: marcbernhardtx~xxyahoo.com Subject: Is there Another Belt Source? The belt on my 4400A broke the other day. It was dumb, but it happened---the tool jammed in a big piece of soft brass at high speed. Anyway, does anybody sell the belts besides Sherline? I'd love to know if it is a standard size (miniature metric animal of some sort, I would guess) that I can get from McMaster-Carr, Grainger, or one of my local suppliers that don't charge freight to ship a 10 gram item 3,000 miles to NJ. Thanks Marc ------- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:12:58 -0400 From: "Rich D." Subject: Re: Is there Another Belt Source? Try your sewing machine repair shops. They have the same brand here. The size is 330mm V belt by MB(Mitsuboshi). I don't know of any other source. RichD ------- Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:32:33 -0000 From: til128x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Is there Another Belt Source? Hi marc...This is from an earlier post of mine...hope this helps.. >> RE: Drive belts for the Sherline.....On occasion my belt broke and I had no replacement, but had to get up and running in a hurry. I "borrowed" some belting from where I work and it worked out so well that I kept it on and it hasn't failed me yet. << The belting that I used is from McMaster-Carr The stock No. is 6567K51. This is for 10 feet of belting.(3/16 Dia.) You will also have to get connectors for it. That stock No. is 6567K26. (There are 25 connectors in a package.) These should last you a lifetime. Cut off 12" of the belting and insert one of the connectors into one end of the belt Thread the belt around the two drive pulleys, and attach the other end of the belt to the connector. (Don't forget to loosen the tension screws at the headstock, and then retighten.) A worst case scenario is if the tool jams in the work, the pulley will spin on the belt and deform it from the heat generated. I have had no problem with the belt slipping during normal use. I hope this will help someone. ------- Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:37:11 -0400 From: Thomas Gilmour Subject: Re: Removing tapered tools from the headstock Jaime, it sounds like you're tightening the draw bolt too tight. You only have to snug it down. I made my own draw bolts which have 3" round handles attached to the upper end of the bolt (got real tired of reaching for my wrench). All I have to do is snug the bolt down by hand and it's more than tight enough. Just takes a couple good taps with a mallet to loosen. And 'NO' do not grease the taper. It should be clean, oil and grease free, to make a tight friction fit. That's what locks it in place. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:17:00 -0400 From: Thomas Gilmour Subject: Re: Removing tapered tools from the headstock Cathy & George Dunham wrote: > Tom, was that handle a tee, welded across the head? George No, not a tee. I used some small six lobed round knobs I got from MSC. They're made of a black duroplast plastic with a steel hub. I drilled out the hub to fit the shaft of the draw bar I made and tapped a set screw hole through the side. This screw lines up with a hole drilled into the side of the shaft on the bar so there's no chance of it slipping. The draw bar extends through the knob and has a steel cap mounted on the end with locktite. This cap is what I strike with my hammer. I figured that over time if I was striking the end of the bar the steel would deform and not be able to slide through the handle anymore. Tom ------- Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:57:30 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Deluxe Tailstock Assy. Picture??? > 1. Does this part feature the easy detatchment? > 2. Is the hand wheel large? Zero setting? > 3. Could someone email a picture of this part number? I can't > seem to find it on Sherline's site. George: The new two-piece tailstock with gib can be installed on the bed without removing the leadscrew handwheel as was required with the old design. It is easily installed and removed. The tailstock assembly is considered a "replacement part" rather than an "accessory", so it is listed in the Replacement Parts Price List rather than the Accessory Price List. The standard 4111A (inch) or 4111M (metric) tailstock is $65.00 and comes with a standard handwheel. If you want the 2" adjustable handwheel you would order P/N 4411A (inch) or 4411M (metric) which runs $85.00 but comes with the adjustable zero handwheel. A 2.5" handwheel is used on the leadscrew, so we use just the 2" adjustable handwheel on the tailstock to avoid interference between the two, but it is larger than the standard 1-5/8" handwheel. I was going to refer you to the photo of the 4400 lathe on our web site to see the tailstock, but I noticed that I still have an old photo there that shows the old tailstock. Photos in our 6th and 7th edition catalogs show the correct tailstock. We are also in the process of putting SolidEdge 3D drawings of each replacement part in the on-line price list at www.sherline.com/prices3.htm, but John hasn't gotten to this particular part yet. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:24:05 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: convert rotary table? > I was just wondering if Sherline sells the bits to convert a > normal rotary table to a cnc ready table, ie. the stepper motor mount > and drive coupling? Al, as others have already answered, a manual Sherline rotary table cannot be converted to a CNC version, but here's why. The base and worm housing are ground as a pair in production to maintain maximum accuracy. The CNC worm housing is different from the manual worm housing because of the shape at the end to accept the stepper motor mount. We did not feel we could maintain needed accuracy by bolting up a new worm housing that had not been ground with the base as they would not be an exact fit. Taking everything apart and regrinding the pair would be more expensive than just making a new rotary table. As you may know, it is Sherline's policy to make any new part we come out with retrofittable to older machines whenever possible. We are not trying to make people buy new rotary tables here, we simply could not adapt the new version to fit up to an existing table because of the way these particular parts are produced. However, there always seems to be a good market for used rotary tables if you decide not to keep your manual version. Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:47:33 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: convert rotary table? No, but it's been done. The rotary table is mounted on a plate, and a bracket to hold the motor is also bolted on the plate. A flexible coupler connects the motor to the 1/4" shaft, after you remove the handwheel. MaxNC and Taig (I believe) use the SAME actual table, and do something similar. Perhaps they would sell the parts, although I don't believe it would be hard to make. Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:23:56 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: convert rotary table? Hi Jerry, sorry, I didn't convert my rotary table, I bought a CNC-ready table. I did see a pix on MaxNC's site: http://www.maxnc.com/page7.html And their rotary table is marked "Sherline", I'm told! So I don't see why an appropriate bracket and base wouldn't work as well for you. Wanna bet it's not a Sherline table? Taig offers this rotary table: http://naturecoast.com/hobby/taigopt.htm Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:48:17 -0000 From: "tauseef" Subject: Re: convert rotary table? Heres How hey guys, I have converted my rotary table and having good success. You can check it out at my website on how I mounted a motor to it. If others find a different/better way please let us all know. So far its working great! I have made a few projects with it, you can check them out at http://home.talkcity.com/ImaginaryPl/tauscnc/cnc.html (candle). Anyway here is the direct link to that page. http://home.talkcity.com/ImaginaryPl/tauscnc/cncparts.html You will need to take it apart when you're drilling and tapping the top mounting hole for the support and then CLEAN out any chips and regrease. I used 3mm screws as there available to me (rc helis). Set the backlash where you find MAX binding in the gears. Let me know if you have any questions. tauseef http://home.talkcity.com/ImaginaryPl/tauscnc/main.html ------- Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 21:30:04 -0800 From: James Eckman Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: power feed accessory > From: Thomas Gilmour > Jim, why did you add the drill/screwdriver adapter? It slows it down and increases the torque. That adaptor has two speeds as well, the really cheap driver I have has on and off! Net price about $30 plus a working power screwdriver. > From: "ecm69692001" > If you are needing power feed, go for the FROG, and you will > never regret it......the best $200. I ever spent. 10 speeds left and > right, your choice coming or going. Program it (simple) or just use > the << >> < > buttons. I have artheritis and more than a > little while I poop out. NOW I just love watching that frog movr the > tool (for hours now) save the pain and hop to it, get a FROG.... That doesn't help you with the crossfeed! Though I've heard very good things said of the FROG. Jim Eckman ------- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 02:59:04 -0000 From: "ecm69692001" Subject: Re: power feed accessory In sherline, "Jack Maher" wrote: Jack....go here www.emachineshop.com by the way, it threads also. I hope you will be as hoppy with your FROG as I am. Ed Mowery Tallassee, AL ------- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:08:52 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: Re: DRO > I suggest you buy 2 digital calipers, which can be bought for as little > as $40-50 on various sales. Make a couple brackets to attach them to the > tables. You then have a direct measuring device, most have zero reset > and will do metric to inch conversion. And if you make the bracket well > the caliper can be removed quickly and used as a caliper. Ron: A word of caution on this approach. It has been the experience of some who have tried this that digital calipers don't stand up well to vibration. When attached directly to the machine their life is shortened substantially. I don't know if it an expensive one would last longer than a cheap one. Perhaps someone who has had this system in place for some time can comment on it. We looked into this approach before designing the DRO and gave up on it because of the lack of reliability in the long run. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 20:08:49 -0000 From: "larry4496" Subject: Re: Sherline T-Slot Spec In sherline, "kentfreeman" wrote: > Does anyone know a good place to purchase the cutters to cut Sherline > T-slots? I am working on building a face plate with t-slots in it. You have 2 options, make your own cutter or use a 1/4 inch mill to made the slot and use a dremel #199 cutter to make the tee slot. thats what I do. The Dremel #199 is 3/8" dia cutter x .045 , I use my dremal mounted in a holder on my milling machine to cut the slot. You must made at less 3 cuts to get .100 in height for the slot. You must feed it slow as not the bind the cutter.. ------- Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 08:16:18 -0500 From: "Daniel Munoz" Subject: RE: Sherline T-Slot Spec Here's the web site of W.J. Ward (from the forum) that made it's own: http://www.geocities.com/wjw2000athotmaildotcom/projects.html This subject has come up multiple times in the past and you may want to search previous messages in the forum archive for possible solutions. Daniel ------- Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 13:01:42 -0800 From: "Brad Butler" Subject: Re: Sherline T-Slot Spec Daniel, I do not use any cutting fluids on aluminum at all. Especially with small cutters you will create that slurry you were talking about unless you are using flood coolant. What I use in all my end mills for cutting aluminum including my 1/8 inchers are special cut high helix 2 or 3 flute endmills specially made for aluminum. These are available from several different suppliers but I get mine from MSC (mscdirect.com). These special cut endmills really do make a difference because their steep helix prevents the chips from clogging up the cutter so no cutting fluid is needed. Stay away from 4 flute endmills for aluminum though because they will clog up very easily. All I add to the mix is some low pressure compressed air to clear the chips from the cutting zone or your shop vac. This is the same setup we use at work on our Bridgeport's. Other than that your cutter speed sounds about right. ------- SAFETY NOTE: Blowing chips with compressed air is a forbidden operation in many safety-conscious workplaces. Besides the unsafe aspects of flying chips, compressed air can drive debris deep within machinery and cause excessive wear over time. Removal with a vacuum pickup or using a cutting fluid is generally preferred. ------- Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 19:04:54 -0800 From: Brian Pitt Subject: Re: Re: Sherline T-Slot Spec You might try a "keyhole" router bit. The one I picked up at the home warehouse store is a 1/4" shank ,with a ~3/8" dia x~3/16" tall head on a ~3/16" dia neck single flute with a brazed carbide tooth. Not the best tool to use on metals but its worked for me on brass and cast iron with a slow feed rate (roughed out with a 1/4" end mill first). Brian ------- Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 15:02:38 -0500 From: "John Barnwell" Subject: RE: tap size x&y 1/4-20 on all lead screws on an INCH based sherline ------- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:53:52 +0100 From: "Joachim Reif" Subject: Added some photos Added some photos of my Dremel attachment to my new mill column. As you can see it is not ready. I´ll need to mill the Sherline key alignment slot and of course polish the surface and anodize the aluminum piece. Next thing that is coming up is the extra milling surface with possibilities to attach the rotary table and the milling wise on it. Has anyone any good advice on measurement of the drilled and tapered holes. Joachim Reif Gothenburg, Sweden By the way - the photos R under PHOTOS and in the album "Dremel collar and attachment to mill" -------- Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:57:39 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Re: more on alignment [LATHE HEADSTOCK] NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!! Ahhh, glad I got that off my chest! You guys are doing it the "way too complicated way". A far easier way to evaluate the machine and also to tune it, is to do the following: Chuck up a hefty bar of aluminum or brass; 3/4" dia minimum. a 4" long bar is plenty. Turn two spots to exactly the same diameter,; one at the headstock end, and one at the tailstock end. Do whatever you have to do to get them the same size. Now mount a clock on the carriage and indicate the spots. This will tell you how parallel the headstock is to the ways. Now you can start knocking the headstock around. If you want to get super fancy, drop a couple of setscrews into the side of the headstock at a 30 degree angle and mill a little angled pocket into the bed at the points where the screws protrude below the headstock. Now you can tweak the alignment without having to bash and guess. When you want to swing the headstock around, just back up the screws until they are above the bed. Once you have the spindle aligned dead nuts to the ways, you can set up your adjustable tailstock center. The easy way to do this is to get it close first. Best way to do that is to bore a 60 degree cone into a bit of scrap (Use the compound slide for this so you don't trash the effort that you just went through to align the spindle.) and then shove the center up against it with the screws loose. Snug the screws down and you'll be awfully close. If you want to get really tricky, you can chuck a clock in the 3 jaw, and indicate the center. I personally wouldn't bother, because the tailstock likely won't be repeatable within 0.001" if you clamp and then unclamp it, or if you drive the barrel out to a different position. If you have really small holes to drill, it's probably worth the effort, but not for normal work. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:27:38 -0600 From: "Brad Butler" Subject: Camshaft cutting method Ok guys here is my method. First in my description when I refer to the base it is a 3/4" thick aluminum plate that my lathe is bolted down to. It is about 12" wide so I can bolt accessories to it in front and in back of the lathe. The setup The camshaft material is held between centers with a lathe dog or a chuck just like any other long shaft but there is no motor on the lathe headstock. In front of the lathe I have 2 bearing blocks and another shaft, we will call this shaft the pattern shaft, bolted to the base parallel with the lathe spindle. The lathe spindle and this pattern shaft are linked together on a 1:1 ratio with a timing belt and pulleys. Now behind the lathe bolted to the base I have the Sherline milling column with another headstock and motor with the spindle centered on the camshaft stock in the lathe. On the pattern shaft I have mounted a pattern of one cam lobe. Then I have a stylus connected to a lever arm that goes underneath the lathe and over to the milling column and connected to the mill head. The stylus rides the cam profile underneath the pattern shaft. If it rode on top then your movement would be backwards. The brass lead nut has been removed from the mill head so it can freely move up and down on the column independent of the lead screw. I also have a threaded adjustment so I can adjust the height of the milling head independent of the lever arm. My lever arm is a 2:1 reduction so the cam pattern on the pattern shaft is twice the size as the one I am trying to make. Cutting the cam Turn on the mill head with a milling cutter and lower it until it is taking a light cut. Now, as the lathe spindle is rotated slowly by hand, the pattern shaft turns in time which rotates the cam pattern and with the stylus following the pattern, the mill head goes up and down cutting the correct profile in the cam shaft material. After each pass lower the mill head a little bit more until the cam profile is cut to your satisfaction. So far I have only cut a 2 lobe cam but it turned out really really well. Now I am working on a means of accurately gauging the position of the cam lobe pattern so I can rotate it a set number of degrees in order to get the correct timing on a multi lobe cam. I am also figuring out how to hold a grinder in this same setup so I can grind the lobes to the final shape. Not exactly the easiest setup as it requires several parts and an extra headstock but it seemed like an easy way to cut a cam profile. I am a ways off from making a complex cam like one required in a V-8 engine but I will get there. By the way, my extra headstock is a home made one with a home make spindle. Any other ideas? Brad Butler ------- Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:39:54 -0500 From: ron ginger Subject: Re: Camshaft I cobbled up a cam grinder- I made a simple frame out of steel that could hold my shaft with a center at one end and an old gearhead motor at the other- I think it came off a grill spit. I placed the master cam on the end of the shaft, and set the whole thing under my grinder head. You could also put it under a sherline mill with a grinding wheel. There are some photos on my web page under the Water Pup heading- http://plsntcov.8m.com Indexing the master cam to the shaft was interesting- I drilled 4 holes in the cam grear 90 deg apart. I put the gear on the shaft as it would be in the finished engine. I took the master cam and drilled 2 holes in it, at the valve overlap angle of about 120 degrees. I marked one of these holes for Intake and one for Exhaust. By putting a pin through the hole in the master and one of the holes in the gear I was able to get the cams aligned right. You do have to keep your mind on the sequence as you do it. Since cams should be hard I think making a grinder instead of amill attachment is better. ron ginger ------- Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:09:39 -0800 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: RE: Horizontal Milling conversion > Can I buy a shorter column, so I can retain the taller column? I didn't > find the number in the accessories list. > When switching to the horizontal position, the headstock spacer seems > superflous. What is your opinion? > It would seem, that in using the horizontal conversion on parts only a > couple of inches high, that deflection might be reduced because the mill > is lower on the column. Does this make sense Craig 1. Yes, you can buy the split column base top (P/N 61060, $35.00) and keep your column full length, although you will have to switch the steel column and saddle back and forth between the two (4 bolts plus squaring up). 2. Yes again, throat distance is not usually a problem when working on the side of a part. 3. Yes, I would say that a shorter column would deflect less than a taller one. Also, the thick aluminum tooling plate to which everything is mounted makes an excellent base (flat and stiff) even when using the mill with the conventional column setup. Craig Libuse Sherline Products Inc. ------- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:08:59 -0600 From: "Brad Butler" Subject: Re: New Sherline >>>I took delivery of my new Sherline lathe today, and needless to say I'm delighted with it! I didn't have too much time to try it out, that'll have to wait a few weeks until I return from holiday, so I just spent my lunch hour assembling it and working out how to reduce the backlash in the cross slide feed, that took me a little while as the instructions in the manual don't appear to tell you how to do it, they just mention how to do it on the mill, or did I miss something? Anyway I figured it out and reduced i from 0.010" to 0.003" which is what I think it's meant to be? I must make a base unit for it too, something with a couple of drawers for tool storage, I had hoped to just buy the one supplied for Unimats but at 16" it's too short. As far as I can see Sherline don't make a base unit, I wonder why as it's impossible to use the lathe without one unless you bench mount it? Graham in London, England <<< I mounted mine in the exact manner that you are talking about and then promptly threw it away and bolted it down to a bench. The hollow base with drawers amplified any machine vibration/cutter noise and got to be really annoying quick. Right now mine is bolted to a 3/4" thick aluminum plate that sits on my workbench. Brad Butler ------- Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:32:14 -0000 From: "karlw144" Subject: riser kit I recently got the riser kit for my lathe ( headstock and tailstock risers, and a taller toolpost). I made a riser block for the compound from a piece of aluminum. I noticed that the tailstock riser is approx 1" longer than the base of the tailstock. I was thinking of cutting this "extra" inch off and using it as a riser for the steady rest. Looking for comments from members of this group. thanks, karl ------- Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:11:07 -0800 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: riser kit Does the tailstock riser stick out behind the tailstock,or in front of it? If it sticks in front, I'd bet that it's because Sherline's "OLD" design for the tailstock had more beef up front. Unfortunately, that beef got in the way of the tool carriage, so they redesigned it. If that's the case, I'd bet you'll find that the tailstock riser will get in the way of the carriage if you don't shorten it. Whether or not that "extra" piece is suitable for the steady rest, I've got no idea. Carol & Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 03:55:08 -0000 From: "ballendo" Subject: Re: Y axis leadscrew cover >>I made a bellows from relatively heavy paper stock by folding it accordian style. I used double backed tape to fix one between the post and the carriage block and one between the handwheel and the carriage block. It works pretty well and keeps the chips out. It'd be nice if Sherline offered a real bellows for that axis, though. The other two are pretty well protected. Carol & Jerry Jankura << For a cnc sherline awhile back, we moved the column bolts to the sides (away from the center) of the column support block. I then bored a hole in this block for a loose slip fit with a thinwall tube, which fit over the leadscrew. The tube in turn, was attached by a press fit bore in the rear of the saddle. Although a lot of work, no travel was lost, and chips NEVER got in there. Hope this helps, Ballendo P.S. We played with the idea of using the tube to deliver oil to the leadscrew/nut; but never pursued it... ------- Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:33:11 -0700 From: "Craig Libuse" Subject: Re: renewing mill Woo: The steel dovetailed bed and chucks are made from 12L14 steel. The brown you are seeing is rust. The spots can be removed by polishing with scotchbrite pads. When storing your machine, coat all the raw steel parts with a little light machine oil or rust preventative like WD-40. Clean off the rust preventative and lubricate a little with fresh oil when you are ready to use it again. If you live in a humid environment, preventing rust is more of a challenge than here in the Southern California desert where they are made, but even here they will begin to rust if left unprotected. Store the machines in as dry an environment as you have available. (In the house is better than in the garage if you have the room.) Craig Libuse Sherline Products ------- Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 08:21:59 +1000 From: "Charlie Lear" Subject: RE: sherline adjustable handwheels On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:16:04 -0400, Carol & Jerry Jankura wrote: >Craig - Any reason why Sherline didn't put a flat on the shafts? Next time you've got a little bit of brass chucked up, turn up some little slices about 1mm thick and just small enough to fit in the set screw holes. I turned up a stub about 3/8" long to (I forget the exact diameter, it isn't critical), faced the end with the tool dead on centre height so there was no pip, and "parted off" with an X-acto razor saw, and repeated half a dozen times. Remove the set screw in the handwheel, pop in a pad with the machined side towards the shaft, and tighten. Works for me, YMMV. Cheers Charlie Lear, Melbourne, Australia Hutt Valley Model Engineer Soc. http://steammachine.com/hvmes Eastern Bays Little Blue Penguin Foundation: same site /penguins ------- Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 02:46:03 -0000 From: "apescronch" Subject: Cleaning the Sherline Mill I'm very new to machining and just purchased a Sherline mill a couple of weeks ago. I have been machining aluminum and generating lots of spiral chips. In spite of using my Shop Vac every few operations, the chips get on the lead screws, get in the area of the dovetailed slides, etc, etc. The fact that the slides are covered with grease from the factory only aggravates the problem. I have been trying to keep everything as clean as possible but am concerned that chips are finding their way into the grooves or other areas that will become a long term problem. Question: Should I be worried about the chips causing a problem? If I'm reasonably careful in cleaning up the chips in the critical areas (e.g. slides) is that good enough? Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated. Jim Hall ------- Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:16:44 -0700 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Cleaning the Sherline Mill Hi Jim, I too just purchased a mill and lathe. I cleaned as much of the factory supplied grease off and used a light oil. Get a magnet so you can tell which parts are steel and which ones are aluminum and apply some light oil to everything steel after each use (don't forget the bottom of the dovetails on the lathe bed or mill Z-axis). Where I live (west coast of BC) things rust in a hurry if they're not protected (you can see some rust on my mill holder in the brass mallet project). See http://davehylands.com/Sherline/ and http://davehylands.com/Projects/ (new pics since I last posted). I plan on getting some rubber (or similar material) and covering the leadscrews. I used paper and taped it to my CNC mount for my first project. An old rag would work pretty well too (and make cleanup easier). I think that if you cleanup then things will be fine. Dave Hylands ------- Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:26:59 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Cleaning the Sherline Mill I took a piece of heavier paper and made a fan-fold I then worked this accordian like fold until it was well-worn (the folds would open and close without the paper significantly rising) and used double backed tape to fasten it between the saddle and the bed. Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 07:19:58 -0700 From: jmhdakota Subject: Chip Guard Bellows LittleMachineShop.com now has the chip guard bellows in stock. I just purchased a single one (should have bought 2!) They look well made and are pretty flexible. Will be fitting to my Sherline Mill this weekend. Julian ------- Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 02:40:17 -0700 From: Brian Pitt Subject: Re: Dremel keyless chuck size I'm a little late on this but anyway I'm starting to put together a small toolpost spindle attachment a bit sturdier than the usual mototool but that can share some tooling with the dremels the spindle threads on my dremel are, near as I can figure M7 X 0.65 pitch measured by starting the cap on by a couple threads then turning it on ten full turns ,measure the gap from the cap to the dremel body then back the cap off ten full turns and measure the difference it came out as 6.5mm / 10 so 0.65 close to 40tpi at .0255 something inch pitch its also real close to the .275-40 thread on the WW collets but I dont have any to test the fit this seems to be an oddball thread but I couldnt find any other info on a websearch so I'd like to hear any other info that might be floating around before I get too far into it Brian ------- Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:08:01 -0400 From: "Daniel Munoz" Subject: RE: Dremel keyless chuck size it's never too late Brian :-) > on my Dremel are, near as I can figure M7 X 0.65 pitch The diameter my caliper report is a little above 7mm. I don't know much about threads, but I believe that the diameter of a threaded rod should be a little less than the intended diameter, not a little more. So, I believe it should be 9/32" (7.14mm). I don't have a 6.5 pitch gauge, but the SAE 40 fit most perfectly, and is consistent with the inch sized diameter. Daniel http://www.nutsnbits.com ------- Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 05:26:54 -0000 From: "mszollar" Subject: Reed switch for limits - anyone done it? I was considering using small magnets and micro reed switches mounted into the base of my Sherline mill to be used for limit and home switches. I figured that mounting magnets into the underside of the table and the switch in the mated surface would be a good solution; nothing exposed, nothing to break is overtravel happens and fast switches. Before I drill and mount I thought it a good idea to check the group and see if anyone else has gone this route and what they thought of the idea (good or bad). Thanks, Ken ------- Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:47:19 EDT From: goodolddanx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Reed switch for limits - anyone done it? I would try a mock up first with the components. Reed swiyches have a historic problem of "bounce" and overshoot that results in erratic operation. The electronics must be designed to relieve these operational problems. Placement of the magnets becomes a key issue for operation. Mounting of the magnets to the distance to the switches is another area that needs to be looked at in the operation. Happy Chips Dan ------- Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:35:46 -0000 From: "tatkinsonavon" Subject: Sherline Mill Stops I have long intended to post some information on some mill stops I have made. I posted some photos today in an album entitled "Sherline Mill Stops". I don't know how to post text to a photo album, so here is the text which accompanies the photos: Comments on photos. These stops were published in "Projects in Metal", now "Machinist's Workshop", in December, 1997, signed using my first name, "Charles". Craig Libuse (I miss him already) was kind enough to post them on the Sherline website. These comments are intended to provide additional photos and some comments. Photo 1 - Shows the general arrangement. There are five stops altogether - right and left X; front and rear Y; and down Z. Photo 2- Shows the left stop on the x-axis, which controls the motion of the table in the right-hand direction. (The other one is exactly the same.) A ¼ inch steel rod slides in an aluminum block slung below a bridge, also aluminum, which in turn is fastened to the table with regular Sherline T-nuts and #10 screws. Make the block large enough for the ¼" horizontal hole to clear the holes for the fastening screws which can be #6 or #8, getting the holes as square as you can. Make the bridge and fasten it on the table quite square. Press the block, with the rod inserted in it, up against the side of the table and clamp firmly to mark holes for the fastening screws, so the whole thing will be in line with the x-axis and the rod aligned on the target. (If you drill tapping holes in the bridge you can use it to guide the drill after the two parts are clamped together. Then open up the tapping holes in the bridge to clearance size.) The target is a piece of ¾" angle iron, finished or not as you please, placed as shown at the corner on top of the saddle, close to but not touching the side of the table, and held down by a single screw. You may want to do some disassembly of the mill to drill these holes and the others on a drill press - Sherline's metal is quite hard. My second version locking screws are shown here - knurled brass knobs with brass stems, My first version was better - #10 recessed-head cap screws with plastic handles forced on, like that for the z-axis stop shown in photo 5. A bit of brass rod is dropped down the hole ahead of the screw to keep from marring the bar. (If you take the rod out for any reason, don't forget this little piece may escape.) Photo 3 - Shows the front stop on the y-axis. In this case the rod slides in a ¼" x ½" steel stem slightly cocked to clear the hand wheel and to target the front of the saddle at a clear spot. All else should be obvious. (It can go on either side.) It targets directly against the front of the saddle, and it is gratifyingly rigid. This view also makes clear the location of the two x-axis targets. Photo 4 - shows the rear stop on the y-axis. Again, provide enough hole clearance, as you can see, I didn't quite.. Place it low enough on the column base so that it targets the saddle and not the table to avoid creating a wear point. It looks like it is butting the gib in the photo but not so, it is actually just above it. This photo also shows the preferred method for the locking screws. Photo 5 - Shows the z-axis stop. It is simply a block clamped to the column. The rod is fixed and adjustment is by moving the whole assembly up or down to a pre-established position. You could easily make the rod adjustable or incorporate a dial indicator. The four small holes are for the screws which hold the clamp jaws, see photo 6 for the back of this assembly. They are easier to drill clear through. Photo 6 - The parts all together On the upper left is the right hand x-axis stop inverted to show the bottom. The right x-axis stop, shown upper right, is held on the table with T-studs and wing nuts because the large-size handwheel prevents it being slid into the slot from the end, and studs are much easier to locate then T-nuts when working from the top of the table rather than the end. On the lower left is the back of the z-axis clamp for clarity. This part could be machined instead, of course. On the lower right is my adaptation of this same clamp principle to a simple stop for the lathe bed, which is indeed machined rather than built-up.. I can be reached at tatkinsonx~xxattbbi.com or (860) 677-6747, which is in Avon, CT. Tracy Atkinson ------- Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 19:56:20 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: milling collumn for 4400 |Anyone have any opinion on a milling column for the 4400 lathe? |the normal 1 direction milling column (with limited throat) |or the multi-directional milling column (with deeper throat, greater |movement and heftier price :-( lee I'd ask myself the following questions: 1. What size work envelope do I need? This could limit your choices? 2. Do I plan on eventually purchasing the X-Y table and perhaps another headstock? 3. Since Sherline is "infinitely upgradable" (ie, you can add the 8 position parts to the standard head, what is the cost differential between buying "everything at once" vs. buying the column now and then buying the 8 position parts later? FYI, I've got the 2000 mill and like it very much. That being said, it's a little more work to tram (square to the table) than the 5x00 mill. However, you've more flexibility with the 8 position column. Bottom Line - if your work envelope is small enough, you can buy the 5x00 column and then upgrade. However, since the X motion is much smaller on the lathe than on the mill, you might find that you want to position things so that the "Y" direction has the larger part travel. You'll have more travel with the 8 way than the 5x00. Jerry ------- Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:17:08 -0000 From: "jeastwoodlm" Subject: Re: larger Mill options In sherline, "kevin_sedota" wrote: > I've had my sherline mill and lathe for about a year now and I'm > looking into getting some larger equipment. I've got a pretty good > idea where I want to go on a lathe but I'd like to hear from people > who have gone to larger mills. Is there something smaller that a > bridgeport type that would do the trick? I see these mill/drills > but I don't really know if these are a waste of money. Opinions? thanks. You can make your Sherline mill a bit larger by buying a longer Z axis and lead screw for it. See the Sherline site; I believe the parts you need to get are 45260 and 45270. This extends the Z height by 4". ------- NOTE TO FILE: There are many comparisons both between Sherlines and also with other brands in the Lathe Comparisons and Mill Comparisons two files. ------- Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:05:41 -0000 From: "tomdoyle123456789" Subject: Sherline Warning - I recently replaced the Sherline mill z-axis column and leadscrew with the longer 45260 and 45270 parts. The additional 4" of Z axis travel has made the mill much more useful. With the 3560 milling plate and the 3551 mill vise and a 3/8 chuck in place there is very little space left. I was going to sell the Sherline mill and buy a bigger machine until I found out about these parts. I was very surprised to find that Sherline did not drill and tap the end of the 45270 leadscrew but all in all it I would recommend the conversion EXCEPT - if you spend the $100+ and make this mod and then try to do the CNC conversion you are out of luck. Hard to believe but it appears that the CNC conversion will not work on mill with the Sherline 45260/45270 parts. Bummer ------- Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:13:09 -0400 From: "j.guenther" Subject: RE: Sherline Warning - The CNC modification using the Sherline mounts also includes a new lead screw with the Sherline motor mount. These lead screws are different from the manual lead screws, that is the end is machined different. I am forwarding this to Craig Libuse to see if we can get an answer from Sherline. John Guenther ------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:12:40 -0500 From: "j.guenther" Subject: RE: CNC Rotary table [sherline] > From: mbstingray [mailto:mark.brown2x~xxmed.va.gov] > In a previous message I was asking about using CNC on my rotary table > as my mill is CNC. I am ready to move forward with this so I > contacted the vendor that sold me my CNC setup to get the mounting > brackets and stepper. He replied that there is no mounting bracket > to convert an existing rotary table that you have to purchase a 'CNC > ready' rotary table. Does anyone know if this is true? Obviously > this is very cost prohibitive as rotary tables are a very expensive > accessory. Thanks, Mark Yes it is true if you want all Sherline components. If you don't mind rolling your own, you can do the way MAXNC does it. Look at the pictures on www.maxnc.com/page7.html to see what they did. Basically they mount a small plate to the end of the rotary table and use a bracket and coupler to attach a 70 oz/in stepper to the non CNC Sherline rotary table. I have actually seen one of these and it looks pretty clean and functional, probably $10.00 worth of material and an hour or two to fabricate in your own shop. Should be relatively easy and not a permanent change to the rotary table. John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, Virginia ------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:04:10 -0500 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: CNC Rotary table Hi Mark: This is true, Sherline does not provide a bolt-on mounting to convert a manual rotary table to CNC. You can, however, build your own if you are worried about saving the $50-$90 it will cost you for the upgraded rotary table. Why is it only $50-$90?? A new CNC-ready rotary table lists for $300, and can be purchased from many different vendors for about 15% off (I recommend Tim Goldstein from CO at http://www.ktmarketing.com/). So you are looking at about $265 with shipping. If you kept your manual rotary table in good condition, it will sell on eBay for between $175 and $215. The net effect is an out of pocket expense of $50-$90. This is the exact route I took with my manual rotary table and my new CNC-ready rotary table. I cannot believe you could duplicate Sherlines CNC-ready table for less than this in time and actual dollars. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:05:22 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: CNC Rotary table Tauseef shows how he converted his manual rotary table into a CNC one on his web site: http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/machinemods.htm Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com/ ------- Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:23:42 -0600 From: "J.T. Travis" <1911_fanx~xxbellsouth.net> Subject: T-slot cutter for Sherline Size - at ENCO! Guys, Don't spend a fortune getting a custom cutter to machine Sherline size T-slots. You need a #303 Woodruff cutter (standard size). Keo makes them. I got mine from Enco - item 367-2540 for $16.34. You might be able to find an off brand for less, look for a #303 Woodruff cutter (standard size). Unfortunately, it has a 1/2" diameter shank - not sure you can use it if your only mill is a Sherline..... #303 Woodruff is: 3/8" diameter and 3/32" cutter face - fits my Sherline slots perfectly. Joe ------- Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:11:49 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Re: Sherline sized tee slot cutters: Normally, tee slots are milled in 2 passes; one for the central slot with an endmill, and a second for the undercut portion using the tee slot cutter. My experience is in precision tee slots used as guides for slides in injection molds. These need to be far more accurate than the tee slots used simply to bolt a job to a machine table. I need to be able to hit precision of +/- 0.0005" on all dimensions, so my strategy has always been to rough out the slot first, and then finish it with light cuts. So that is my preferred habit...but it is by no means necessary for this application. By the way, have you all seen Joe Travis' comments regarding off the shelf woodruff keyseat cutters. If these work well, then this is the obvious way to go. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:33:12 -0500 From: "j.guenther" Subject: RE: Re: T-slot cutter for Sherline Size - at ENCO! I have bored out a Sherline 3/8" end mill holder to 1/2" on a Sherline lathe and it works fine. John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, Virginia ------- Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:40:52 -0500 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Re: T-slot cutter for Sherline Size - at ENCO! Hi, Bruce: You can purchase a blank arbor from Taig. Taig uses the same 3/4-16 headstock spindle thread as Sherline, so you can interchange a few of the parts. You'll have to remove about 0.090 inches from threaded end of the Taig arbor. After that, you can drill, bore, and ream a 1/2 inch diameter hole for the 1/2 inch cutter shank and then add a 10-32 tapped hole for the set screw. It's interesting that Sherline doesn't offer a 1/2 holder, as there are several different cutters that work well with their equipment. Jerry ------- Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:22:45 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Re: Tee slot cutters...the lowdown Hi All: I did some comparative shopping today, so here's the full meal deal with regard to the Great Sherline Tee Slot Cutter Caper: >From the KBC catalogue: -I can buy a brand spankin' new "Internal Tool" brand micrograin carbide keyseat cutter with 3/8 shank for $55.83 Canadian Dollars. - The same sized carbide blank is $33.80 in micrograin carbide. A cheaper blank is available for $14.20, but the quality ain't so hot (trust me on this...I've tried them). - I can buy a solid carbide standard #303 keyseat cutter with 1/2 " shank for $55.01. and a #303 High Speed Steel keyseat cutter for $13.62 if I can live with an "import", or $28.60 for a Keo (US brand) - If I buy a 4 flute endmill with the intention of modifying it, I can get a good cutter in HSS for $13.30 (Niagara brand) or a crappy import for $6.23 -I can buy a solid carbide endmill for $35.74. I tried grinding a cutter today, and found that it takes me about 18 minutes(excluding setup time) to modify a 4 flute endmill in HSS. This includes full relief top and bottom, and involves grinding the relief at the root of the tee by hand with a dental handpiece. If I simply hollow grind the faces and ignore the relief (like a keyseat cutter or slitting saw) it takes me less than 5 minutes to spin down a cutter. If I make a 2 flute cutter from scratch it takes me about 5 minutes to split the blank and about 15 minutes to grind the cutter and relieve it. So: the moment of truth: - Your cheapest option by far is a purchased import #303 HSS keyseat cutter at $13.62.(Thanks to Joe Travis for first pointing this out!!) - HSS endmill with fully relieved teeth will cost $37.00 + shipping and taxes. - HSS endmill with simple hollow grind will cost $20.00 + shipping and taxes. - A 2 flute fully relieved carbide cutter from scratch will cost $60.40 + shipping and taxes. The skinny on relieved vs unrelieved cutters: Relieved cutters are designed to cut more freely with less dragging of the cutter through the slot. They are capable of better finishes and better accuracy. They also load the machine slightly less. Keyseat cutters are unrelieved. Having said all that, lots of people have cut lots of tee slots with unrelieved keyseat cutters and it's worked just fine. I've done it myself in moments of extreme laziness, but I prefer a fully relieved cutter because it does a better job for me. For those who are unsure what constitutes a "fully relieved" cutter, have a look at the end of a standard endmill. Imagine the same shape on the top cutting surfaces as on the bottom. If it's still unclear, look at the pictures of true Tee slot cutters. The KBC catalogue lists these on page 103. If it was me, (and I didn't have access to a cutter grinder) I'd go the route that's been recommended by many on the list. My choice would be a standard #303 keyseat cutter in HSS, and I'd get and modify a Sherline endmill holder to accept a 1/2" shank. For the number of times this cutter is likely going to be used, I don't think I could justify a "super fancy" on a hobby budget. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:33:39 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Re: Sherline Dovetail Cutters. I'm sure you're aware of this, but I thought I would pipe in just in case... According to http://www.sherline.com/dimen.htm it's 55.5 degrees. I have no idea if the 1/2 degree is significant or not, but thought I would mention it. Dave Hylands ------- Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:21:34 -0600 From: "Scott Peterson" Subject: Re: Sherline Dovetail Cutters-cheap carbide! I've gotten some good help reading here and might be able to return the favor. This thread goes on and on, so it must be of interest. During a search for metric endmills, I ran across the R.L. Schmidt website. ( http://www.rlschmitt.com/attitude.htm ) They don't sell online but are really good folks on the phone. I had a few tech questions, and was surprised to find myself on the phone with the owner, one Paul Schmidt. I told him that I was just a hobbyist and not even a big purchaser hobby-wise, but he spent a lot of time with me to see that I got what I needed. (I'll hazzard a guess that he lost money in the half-hour that were were on the phone) The prices are below average for solid carbide tools, they're made onsite, (in the US of A, should that matter) and the ones that I purchased were shipped promptly and work well. To the point: They have a section of the site that has over runs and "blems" at greatly reduced prices. ( http://www.rlschmitt.com/Blemlist.htm ) The list changes constantly, so a phonecall (800 number) is in order if there is any interest in picking up some endmills for direct use....or, as is spoken of in this thread, modification. I thought it so good to run across a company that will still spend some time with a "little guy", that I hatched the idea to post about it. I had second thoughts, cause I didn't want these folks to get a flood of penny-ante phone calls...so I called Paul back and asked if he'd mind. His reply was most positive..."Bring 'em on!" (or words to that effect) I guess the prospect of free advertising was not lost on him...but he also showed what seemed to be genuine interest in the miniature machining world, asking where he could read up on it via the internet. This post was completely unsolicited, and I've nothing to gain from it....just want to reward a guy doing business "the right way". I hope all that this will be of some help.... Regards! Scott ------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:31:19 -0000 From: "variousgroups" Subject: Tooling plate for rotary table Does anyone recall who was selling the tooling plate for the rotary table? If a mill riser-block is in place, and if the rotary table is made concentric with the spindle, then there is room for a 3.25" diameter tooling plate to turn free of the mill column. Nice to have would be lots of pre-drilled and tapped holes for mounting hold-down clamps. For T-nut holes all the round tooling plate would need would be just two. Mike ------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:44:02 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Tooling plate for rotary table Hi Mike, I think it was listed on E-bay. I have a JPG of it, but no reference to source. Shouldn't be hard to make one, I think that's what I decided to do. I can send you a JPG file if you desire. There were no T-slots, just a few tapped holes, and clearance holes for the hold downs. The rotary table has the T-slots, I don't think tooling plates do that much. Can you draw plans or make one? Shouldn't be hard to do! I often have either the 3 or 4 jaw chuck on mine, so I'm not sure I'd use one that often. What I DO need is a longer 'Z' axis (Sherline has one for about $100, but no CNC leadscrew yet). Or a riser block! Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:53:11 -0500 From: "j.guenther" Subject: RE: Tooling plate for rotary table Alan, when I did my CNC conversion of my 5400 mill, I mounted the Y axis stepper in the rear of the machine. This made it necessary for me to make a riser block for the column. Mine is 1.5 inches high but you could make it taller if needed. I think I still have the drawing around some where, I can send it to you if I can find it. John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, Virginia ------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:37:30 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Tooling plate for rotary table Hi John, no need unless you have it handy. I can probably figure it out easily enough. I've already bolted my new deluxe mill to a 1" slab of aluminum, and THIS time I put in access holes for the column. Finding the block of aluminum for the spacer and long Allen head cap screws is another thing! And I have the RF-31 mill to make it on. What I DIDN'T want to try was cutting off my column mount for the Horizontal milling attachments! Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:24:27 -0500 From: "John Guenther" Subject: RE: Tooling plate for rotary table Alan, since mine is used for a stepper motor mount, I mounted the column to the spacer with the original screws, and mounted the spacer to the base with 4 new screws through the base into the spacer. I have a .625 wide by .750 high "tunnel" through the spacer. The spacer is 2 x 3 x 1.5 or there about. I ultimately needed to shim the column a little on the front side to get everything back in alignment, I think it was about .006 or close to it. I did not check the column before I removed it so I don't know if it was square before I started. John Guenther ------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:04:52 -0000 From: "buchnerb" Subject: Re: Tooling plate for rotary table Alan, Sherline now sells a 2 inch riser block for the mill. I just got one about two weeks ago but I have not installed it yet. I found with my rotary table and a drill chuck I needed more throat space on my mill. I think the part # is 13000 2" COLUMN RISER BLOCK (2-HOLE). It comes with long cap screws to reach through the base and the block to the column. Bruce Buchner ------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:05:54 -0500 From: "Ron Ginger" Subject: RE: Digest Number 944 > From: Alan Marconett KM6VV >Subject: Re: Tooling plate for rotary table >I've heard of others mounting the Y stepper behind the column, which >would have been nice (out of the way). Did you drill new holes in >either the base or the column? Otherwise I'm not clear on how you used >the same holes! Unless, they are staggered back a little on the spacer >block? I mounted mine in back. I did not make a riser, which might have been a good idea, but I did cut a 'tunnel' under the column mounting block. Alignment was no problem- I bolted the block together with its original holes, then drilled two new holes, one to each side of center. When the new holes were tapped I just switched the boltsd from the old to new holes. The hardest part of this is getting a shaft extension aligned well enough. I made what ammounts to a long coupling with one end threaded to match the lead screw the other bored to suit the motor. I made a square aluminum plate to mount the motor, and bolted the plate to the Sherline base. There are photos of my conversion on my web pages, in fact, I think I was the first to do it this way 5 or 6 years ago. ron ginger http://plsntcov.8m.com ------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:56:01 -0500 From: "Bob Breed" Subject: Re: Tooling Plate for Rotary Table - II Check out www.shopdawg.com I think this might be what you are looking for ------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:37:25 -0500 From: "j.guenther" Subject: RE: Tooling plate for rotary table [PLANS] I'll post it to the file section tonight for all to have. John Guenther Sterling, Virginia ------- Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:22:30 -0500 From: "Bill Rutiser" Subject: Re: Lubrication > How do you "get at" the leadscrew to lubricate it with sewing > machine oil? I have the lathe mounted, so it's awkward to turn it > upside down. I have a piece of bare copper wire, probably #14, with a small eye bent into the end. Surface tension holds a drop of oil in the eye so that it can be transferred to the underside of the leadscrew. Surface tension sucks the oil up onto the leadscrew or bearing. Its not perfect but a lot of the oil makes it onto the leadscrew. Bill Rutiser Gaithersburg, MD, US ------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:59:03 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Has anyone seen a Sherline modified like a drill press Hi Dave: I made one like that a couple of years ago. I sent it to Joe Martin to see if he was interested in producing it as an accessory, but he couldn't find a good way to make it cost-effective to produce. As far as I know, it's still down there. It was a dovetail plate with a rack and pinion drive, a return spring and an adjustable depth stop to allow peck drilling with tiny drills. It was designed to fit in the space where the riser block normally goes. It was mounted with the standard Sherline mount, so no mods needed to be made to the machine. I may still have the drawings kicking around in my computer. Give me a nudge if you're interested , and I will go on the hunt. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:04:30 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Suhmann Subject: Convert leathe or Mill to drill press Hey, You guys have been touting the home machinist handook by D Briney. On pages 64 and 65 of my copy it shows a convertion but the details are left up to you. You could use a dremel drill press base, column, and table as a starting point and then use D.B.'s idea. The head just slides up and down the column and a lever pushes it off a locked movable fulcrum on the column. For up and down alignment a bolt or pin passes from the fulcrum plate into the body of the moveable stage on which the head is mounted. Take a look it is elegantly simple...to me. Pete Suhmann in the Slower lower of NJ ------- Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 05:38:32 -0000 From: "tonybakermv" Subject: 8 way conversion I am thinking about getting the 8 way conversion adapter for my mill. Has anyone any experience with this and how did it work out for you? Two things I am concerned about. 1, The bed is not as long as if you purchased the 8 way from scratch, is this a problem? 2, Is the mill stable given the way the head is out on a bracket and the forces involved in milling? Any comments welcome. Tony ------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:24:29 -0800 From: Wm. Dubin Subject: Re: 8 way conversion Tony, I bought the model 2000 (8 way). At the time, I figured it was a good idea to have every possible angle I could get. I've owned the mill four years now, and I've never used the 8th. feature. But that is because I've never needed it. Any extra length on the bed is desireable. As to stability, I'd say it is as stable as the cut you're going to use it for. I work mainly in brass, and have had no problems. A bigger mill will always be the answer to stability. You might think about the angle table as an answer to the 8th. angle. Wm. ------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:41:48 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: 8 way conversion Hi Tony: I've never owned the 8 way Sherline mill, but I have a few friends who do. The mill is not as sturdy as the non-tilting, non-swiveling model (I did have one of those), but can be vastly improved with a couple of simple braces. I've heard some minor grumblings about the depth of cut that cannot be taken, but that is after they've driven my Bridgeport clone. All of the guys I know are doing nice work with their machines but they all would like to have the space and resources for something bigger. (So would I, and I've got machines coming out my ears already!!) If you like the versatility that the tilting head provides, then the Sherline is the best machine in its size range, both for quality of construction and for availability of accessories. I chose the simpler machine because I've got a hard-on for rigidity in small machine tools, and the simpler machine is better in that regard. (By the way, I've tipped the head on my Bridgeport only a dozen times or so in the past 3 years. It's just not a highly used capability.) Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:31:25 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: 8 way conversion [AND SIMPLE MILL TOO] > How was the machine braced to make it more robust? Hi Jerry: An easy first step is to make a strap up that can go from the top of the Z axis way to the back of the ram. This will help tremendously in eliminating the tendency of the head to shift forward and backward. The next place to consider bracing is from the back end of the ram to the mounting plate on which you've (presumably) placed the mill. This will eliminate the possibility of having the ram rotate on you. The best way, of course, would be to toss out the original machine column and ram, and make up replacements from solid chunks of aluminum with enough beef to give substantial resistance against movement, but that's overkill considering the light weight of the rest of the machine. This, together with a strap from the top of the Z axis way to the end of the ram would give you a really solid platform. The simple straps, however, will help a lot. 1/4" x 1" aluminum is plenty strong for any of these straps.You can slot them at one end if you wish to preserve the ability to tilt the head. The Z axis strap is a good idea for the plain mill too...just take it all the way down to the machine base instead of terminating it on the ram. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:30:13 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: shim material > Okay, maybe this is a silly question, but once your mill is found to > no longer be squared, what do you use for shim material? Hi David: First of all, there is no such thing as a silly (or stupid) question :) Anyways, on to your question: you can purchase shim stock. Here's an example of a sampler pack from Lee Valley Tools: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=40946 You should be able to buy this from most places that sell machine tools (like: http://www.use-enco.com/pdfs/635.PDF) I've also used good old fashioned aluminum foil. It's a bit thinner than a thou (0.0007 if memory serves me correctly - different brands probably differ). The heavy duty stuff is a few tenths thicker than the regular. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:28:50 -0500 From: "Ronald Melvin" Subject: RE: shim material Post-it Notes make great quick and dirty shim material if you only need it for a temporary set up. They're about 0.004" each and you can just peel off as many as you need in any given set up, and cut them to size easily with a pair of scissors. I find that 5 sheets are just right to raise the Sherline carbide insert tool in the 3/8" Sherline tool holder. Ronald Melvin Toronto, Canada ------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:24:52 -0800 From: "Brown, Mark A [SPO]" Subject: Rotary table question Recently I purchased a stepper motor for my rotary table and built the hardware to attach it. Everything seems to work fine with one exception. Somehow it appears my rotary table now has 73 turns instead of 72 for a complete rotation. Is it possible that the internal gears must be aligned in a certain manner when installed? When I was modifying it I noticed that the worm gear was accessible and curiosity got the best of me so I pulled it out to "check it out". For the life of me I can't figure out how the meshing of the gears could increase or decrease the rotary displacement of the table. Anyone have input on this? And no it is not a backlash issue as I built a coupler to take out the backlash much like the original handle does. Thanks, Mark ------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:19:00 -0800 From: "Brown, Mark A [SPO]" Subject: RE: Rotary table question From: Orrin B. Iseminger [mailto:oisemingx~xxmoscow.com] >> It sounds like a "fencepost" problem to me. Are you starting to count at "1" or "0?" << First noticed it when the triangular indicator seemed to be off from the markings. Every one turn of the handle should go 5 degrees so if you start with the traingular metal tab on 0 and give it one full turn of the handle you go to 5 then 10 and so on. Mine progressivly gets further off. I am not using the CNC when doing this, just turning the handle. All connections are tight and there is no backlash, ok, maybe .002". ------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:51:19 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Rotary table question Perhaps your set screw on the handle isn't tightened down on the shaft? It might have some friction which allows it to turn, but it may be slipping. Since you have a stepper motor, there are actually 3 places where you could have a loose set screw. 1 - on the handle to the motor shaft. 2 - on the motor shaft to the coupler. 3 - on the coupler to the lead screw. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:23:53 -0800 From: "Brown, Mark A [SPO]" Subject: RE: Rotary table question I checked all three and intentionally bound the rotary table and tried to make the assembly spin. I turned it harder than I would expect myself or the motor to ever turn it. I will check it out again but I am almost certain the total count for a revolution is off. ------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:43:56 -0800 From: Dave Martindale Subject: rotary table question With a worm gear set, the gear ratio is set by the number of teeth on the worm wheel gear. One turn of the input shaft rotates the table by one tooth on the worm wheel. There is no way you could have changed this. If the worm wheel had 72 teeth before, it still has 72 teeth. So any error has to come from some other source. That's why other people have suggested looking for slipping couplings. Is it possible you just counted wrong? Are you counting 73 turns with a hand crank, or what should be 73 turns with the stepper motor? If you're counting with the stepper, it's possible that you have the steps per revolution set wrong, or the stepper driver is missing steps occasionally. Dave ------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:12:05 -0800 From: "Brown, Mark A (SPO)" Subject: RE: rotary table question That was exactly what I was thinking about worm gears which is why I'm so perplexed over this. Perhaps I will got back to the proverbial drawing board as I must have overlooked something simple. I was just counting the handwheel turns. There must be some slippage somewhere. Basically what is happening is; you start on zero with the handwheel on zero. Crank the handwheel until you have made a complete revolution of the table. Now when the handwheel is on zero the indication is about 1.5 degrees off from zero. I will start over checking this out. ------- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:42:05 -0800 From: Dave Martindale Subject: rotary table >Basically what is happening is; > you start on zero with the handwheel on zero. Crank the >handwheel until you have made a complete revolution of the table. >Now when the handwheel is on zero the indication is about >1.5 degrees off from zero. I will start over checking this out. Now try turning the handwheel another 72 turns. I'll bet that you're still 1.5 degrees from zero. I suspect that you have some backlash in the worm gears, and you may well have made this worse by taking the table apart. If you approach zero by "backing up" the crank and then change direction to turn 72 turns, you will take up that backlash and it will take more than 72 turns to get back to zero. But *another* rotation, without changing direction, will take exactly 72 turns. To measure this accurately, you have to approach zero from one direction and keep cranking in the same direction for the whole measurement. Never reverse direction. (By the way, you originally said it took 73 turns. Now you say it's 1.5 degrees from zero, but the table moves 5 degrees per turn of the crank, so it must be 72.3 turns. One of these must be wrong). Dave ------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:05:47 -0000 From: "jeastwoodlm " Subject: Gadget for cross slide DI (Re: Indicating Question) To get around the problem of aluminum construction Ted refers to below, I built a gadget that mounts to the cross slide and lets you mount your DI's magnetic base. Make it out of 3/8" or 1/2" steel, about as long (no longer!) as the cross slide width, and about 1.5" wide. Narrower takes up less room, but also allows the magnetic base to rock too easily. Drill two holes for the T-nuts 1.50" apart. I tried to make them a tight enough fit with the barrel of the T-nuts so that the nuts won't spin easily, making it easier to slide the gadget on and off the cross slide. Counterbore the top of the holes so that the 10-32 cap screws don't stick up about the surface. I used this to mount my DI on the slide and run it back and forth along a piece of drill rod I'd chucked up as accurately as I could, to check that the axis of the spindle was properly aligned with the ways. I'm making a 5C collet chuck for my Sherline, and wanted to make sure the lathe was dialed in as well as I could get it. ------- Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 20:36:17 -0000 From: "tomdoyle123456789 " Subject: Tall Boy CNC Mod Some time ago I added the extended Z-Axis parts to my manual 5400 mill. The additional 4 inches of Z length was a big help. Up until recently you could not make the CNC mod to Sherline mills with the extended Z-Axis. Fortunately Sherline now sells the CNC Z-Axis lead screw for mills with the extended Z-Axis. The only additional hassle when doing the CNC mod to an extended Z- Axis mill is due to the fact that the Z-Axis parts comes pre- assembled in the CNC upgrade kit. You must take it apart to substitute the longer Z-Axis lead screw. Since some sort of locktite is used to hold the parts together it is a bit more work than you might expect. Things went smoothly except for the X-Axis. It was prone to bind up and never operated smoothly. After trying everything I discovered that the problem was due to a defective bearing in the X-Axis stepper motor mount assembly. When I looked at the bearing I discovered that the bearing was made in CHINA. Very disappointing to see junky Chinese bearings mixed in with all the quality components used in the CNC mod kit. I hope that this is not a sign of the times for Sherline products. There is a photo of my "Tall Boy" Sherline CNC mod in the photo section. tom ... ------- Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:24:45 -0800 From: Wm. Dubin Subject: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod Tom, I am planning to change over to the longer Z-Axis. I don't have CNC so that's not a problem, but I have wondered about rigidity. Have you found when at the top of the bed, there is any increase in movement? I am also considering leaving the Sherline spacer in place, rather than putting it on and off..... any thoughts on this? Wm. ------- Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 14:32:17 -0000 From: "tomdoyle123456789 " Subject: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod Wm, I was also very concerned about rigidity but decided that unless you were near the top of the Z-axis it would not be any less rigid than the standard Z-axis. Given the choice between a little loss in rigidity and not being able to fit the part in the mill at all, I voted for a little loss in rigidity. The only times I have had to run near the top of the Z-axis is for drilling and reaming where the side loading is minimal. I have been very happy with the longer Z-axis. Even if I was not doing the CNC mod I would be tempted to put in the CNC Z-axis lead screw and mount. I believe that one of the weak spots in the Sherline mill design is the setscrew holding the Z-axis in place. The setscrew on mine came loose one day and the whole Z-axis dropped down (not a pretty sight). The CNC Z-axis leadscrew and mount fixes that weak spot in the mill. I did not install the Sherline spacer on my mill. Decided to wait until I needed the space and would put it in then. tom ------- Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 10:54:06 -0800 From: Wm. Dubin Subject: Re: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod Tom, thanks for the info. My reason for wanting the extra length is for reaming, I rarely have parts that are so big I need it. Your thoughts re: the set-screw design are very interesting. By any chance, would you know if I could use the CNC leadscrew with the DRO? I've never had the problem you describe, but its certainly NOT one I'de like to go through. I assume the Z-lock will still work with this leadscrew..... although I very rarely trust it to work, preferring the set screw on the side instead. Wm. ------- Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 18:53:35 -0000 From: "tomdoyle123456789 " Subject: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod The instructions for the CNC mod indicate that the Z-lock is not used with CNC. I suspect that they are trying to avoid having the CNC motor try to move the Z-axis when it is locked. I do not see any reason why you could not leave the Z-lock in place. The CNC z-axis part is not a drop in replacement for the standard z-axis. The coupling on the "knob end" of the shaft is not the same. tom ------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:42:29 -0800 From: Wm. Dubin Subject: Re: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod Tom, I am just back from Sherline, and having the tall column installed on my mill. The column is replacement part #45260, the regular leadscrew is #45270. When I was there, I heard that the CNC leadscrew didn't yet have a part #, but they will know what you mean if you ask for it. If you use the CNC leadscrew, you must use the CNC housing . If you do THAT, then you must mount the motor as well, or you can't use the handwheel. As I doubt I'll ever use a Z axis motor, I just had them install it with the regular lead-screw set up. Won't have a chance to use it until tomarrow... but NOW I can ream with a 1/4" reamer!!!!!!! Just in time. Sure makes the mill look big. Wm. ------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:26:57 -0600 From: "Al Lenz" Subject: RE: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod Hi Wm. It is possible to modify/replace the Z axis support housing with one that incorporates two ball bearings that can be adjusted for preload, just as Sherline's CNC housing. They fit within the envelope just as if it had been designed for it. I made that mod several years ago and it ended the problems due to the weight of the Z being supported by the handwheel. I thought that I put pics and drawings in the files, but couldn't find them just now, (maybe another group?) If anyone's interested, I can look them up. This is a very desirable and worthwhile mod to the basic setup, IMHO. al lenz ------- Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 23:37:20 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod Al, That is what I did (for cnc). The existing black steel collar is counterbored for the thrust bearing (two washers and ball assy). The end of the screw where the handwheel seats is threaded 1/4-40 for a locknut that includes a locking setscrew. The handwheel wheel goes back as usual. There is a thrust bearing under the collar too. I used to have pics on the Yahoo site, but they get lost, moved and linked to the wrong owners. Out of control. I gave up. RichD ------- Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 02:39:59 -0600 From: "Al Lenz" Subject: RE: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod Hi Rich and group: Now that you jogged my memory, you are the one that first mentioned this potential mod, and I just decided to follow up on it. Thanks. It's been a while, time does fly... I found my old files, tweaked them a bit, and loaded to the 'Files' as 'Mill Z-axis Mod'. And guess what? There was the old original file right next to it. I guess I overlooked it before, but as you might guess, Yahoo won't let me edit or remove the old file. Turns out the JPG's weren't readable in the original for some reason, so I left the revised one which is better, (readable), as a zipped file. Al Lenz P.S. If it were anyone else I would challenge the 1/4-40 as a typo (grin). The shallower cut would be preferable over a 1/4-28 , (but not really required). ------- Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:01:07 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod Al: The thread is 1/4-40. Fine threads are stronger and allows better adjustment. The mod I did is for a stepper motor 2/1 belt drive. The handwheel is not used anymore. I am wanting to rehash the Z setup as the rear spindle motor drive is an excellent idea. Trouble is, my stepper is already at the rear hanging down. I have a set of 6 (640x480) pics if anybody wants to see the Z CNC mod. This has performed very well. Only complaint is the screw ***needs to be a ball screw****. Rich ------- Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:15:06 -0600 From: "Al Lenz" Subject: RE: Re: Tall Boy CNC Mod Wm., take a look in the 'Files' section. It's listed under 'Mill Z-axis Bearing Revised'. The changes are all contained within the original housing envelope. I'm not familiar with the DRO but since everything external to the housing is essentially unchanged, I would guess that its installation would be unaffected. But I don't really know, see what you think. Al Lenz ------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 03:02:09 -0000 From: "jimknighton1948 " Subject: Re: Expected run out when using a 5C collet? jeastwood, I'm well along with my 5C collet chuck project and have the body just about finished. With any luck the chuck will be ready to use before the weekend. This afternoon as I was laying out the position of the indexing pin I realized that in your comments you hadn't made mention of this component. I began to wonder if you had included one in your design? If not, its absence might be the cause of your excessive runout. I am not using the drawbar closer as you are but decided to use the tommybar operated internal closing nut suggested by John Guenther. In one of his posts on another board he suggested the inclusion of thrust bearings and I've included that feature as well. Regardless of the closing method the collet needs to move straight back into it's seat without axial twist. This is the function of the index pin and the matching lengthwise groove on the collet. Without the indexing pin the rotational force imparted by tightening the closer (regardless of which end of the spindle it's on)can twist the collet out of alignment and result in excessive runout. I'm using a setscrew threaded just far enough into the bore that it prevents the collet from rotating but not so far as to drag on the collet itself. The setscrew is secured with a dab of loctite to keep everything secure. I'm mentioning this on the off chance that maybe it might be helpful, assuming of course that you've not already resolved the issue. Regards, JBK ------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 03:37:35 -0000 From: "jeastwoodlm " Subject: Re: Expected run out when using a 5C collet? Thanks for the info. Hope your chuck works well. I did indeed add a pin to keep the collet from turning, but I did so after I took my measurements of run out. It didn't occur to me that a twisting moment on the collet could get it out of alignment, but it made sense once I thought about your idea a bit. Not simply rotation of the collet, but actual twisting of it. I'll go check again now that my pin is in place. Thanks again, and good machining! ------- Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 05:37:00 -0000 From: "jimknighton1948 " Subject: Re: Small band saws About a year ago John Gjertsen sent me a photo of a Sherline sized vertical bandsaw he designed and built in his own shop. It was a very well done. An impressive project. At the time I was corresponing with John regard his cleverly designed threading gear box specifically for the Sherline lathe with riser blocks. He was kind enough to share his plans with me and I built the gear box. I highly recommend it, by the way. He was thinking about putting together a parts kit for the gear box but I don't know if that actually materialized. I found John to be helpful and very generous. Perhaps if you contact John directly he will share his bandsaw experiences with the group. I, for one, would be interested in the outcome. I catch myself contemplating the possibilities of building one myself. Regards, JBK ------- Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 01:02:18 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Mill CNC conversion (need cable/connector reccomendations) Marshall Pharoah wrote: > Having had the parts kisking around since last summer, I am finally > converting my mill. I need to make up some cables to connect the > controller board to the steppers. I'm thinking DB-9 connectors and 20 or > 22 guage wire. I have Sherline stepper motors, which I think are 4V 2A. > Has anyone got any other suggestions, including a source for decent > stranded wire cable with 6 or 8 conductors? My usual sources for > components don't seem to carry anything other than CAT-5 or similar > tiny, solid strand wire. Thanks, Marshall Marshall, I used 4 pin mic connectors and #20 wire stuffed thru 1/4" black vinyl tubing. Inline connectors were attached to each motor lead, a 2' cable made up and this plugs into the control box. All neat & trouble free. #20 wire is the smallest you should use. The 4 pin mic connectors are available from many sources, but the chassis mount and inline type are hardest to find. I got most at Hamfests. The male conn is found at RadioShack. RichD KT4IZ ------- Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:57:35 -0000 From: "jimknighton1948 " Subject: Re: JBK lathe mods For those of you who are interested, Don Christensen of this forum graciously sent me a copy of my MS Word document, JBK's Lathe Modifications, in Adobe Acrobat format. The pdf version is much smaller than the original and consequently I've uploaded the file JBK.pdf to the files section and deleted the MS Word version. JBK ------- Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 01:52:58 -0000 From: "jimknighton1948 " Subject: Re: JBK lathe mods Ron, thanks for your comments. Concerning the mill, I don't have a Sherline mill. I use an Asian mill/drill from Jet. It is much larger than the Sherline and uses R8 tooling. As you probably know, to really get a mill operational and useful takes tooling, etc. that can easily cost several multiples of the mill itself. Since I don't have $$$, I've had to use as much ingenuity as possible to get to the point where it is at present. I haven't made many mods to my mill and really don't plan to. It's size (over 500 lbs as curently configured) is both an advantage and a drawback). No one will ever accuse that machine of being portable or even lugable. However, I wouldn't want to even think about making my lathe's motor mounts on a Sherline vertical mill. It could probably be done with a rotary table setup and a long endmill but not easily. Its far beyond the capacity of the Sherline boring head attachment (which I have and use on the lathe). Making these was a piece of cake with the 3" boring head in the Jet mill/drill. I have several Sherline milling accessories that I use on my Jet mill/drill, including the CNC rotary table, the 2" vise with rotating base, adjustable angle table, etc. The Sherline vise augments my usual 6" vise for special setups. I've had to build mounting plates for each of these accessories. Since these can have both horizontal and vertical orientations, that means several mounting plates for each accessory. This isn't a complaint - it's just how it is, and once built these mounting plates are available when needed for the next project. When I first bought the mill I spent nearly all my shop time making fixtures and accessories. Eventually I got to the point where I had enough tooling etc. that this wasn't necessary. I'm still in that mode with the lathe. This process is cumulative, however, and over time the focus is shifting to the point where I can actually start thinking about model shipbuilding again. I'm not ready to build models, however. The focus is now on the additional tools and accessories I need to get seriously into scratchbuilding. Enhancing the mill and lathe's capabilities in this direction is still the priority but the focus is increasingly on stuff like disc and thinkness sanders, miniature table saws, scroll saws, etc. In fact, I will almost certainly build a lathe mounted 5" disk sanding attachment this next week. Most of the materials are on hand and this will be a simple and straightforward project. I've figured out how to use my current machine tools and tooling to build a (hopefully) competent small scroll saw. In comparison with the disk sander this is a complex project and will almost certainly be a stand alone machine, not an accessory. If $$$ weren't an issue I would purchase a Sherline 5400 lathe with DRO and the horizontal milling attachment. That configuration comes with a 1/2" thick mounting baseplate approx 12" sq. I'm doing this from memory and don't have the catalog in front of me, so please forgive me if I don't have the dimensions right. I would then use some 1/2" x 3" bar stock to form the "legs" of a channel and essentially duplicate the lathe's base configuration with switches, controls, outlets, etc. By the way, if you can't find a length of channel you could use this approach to build your own. I can get 10" alumin bar in several thicknesses from my local metal supplier (Metal Supermarket, a franchised chain with stores around the country). There is a nice photo of a stalk mounted mill DRO box in the tips section of the Sherline web site. I would do something similar using 1/2" conduit to keep the encoder cables out of sight and out of the way. The horizontal milling conversion is very interesting to me. I already have a good vertical milling capability and the horizontal configuration presents some intriguing possibilities for the tools and accessories I would like to build. I can and will do some of the above using the lathe as a starting point, but the horizontal mill would sure be nice. At present this is nothing more than a pipedream, but occasionally funds become available. When they do, this will probably be where I'll be going. Regards, JBK -------- Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:46:05 -0000 From: "silverwaterh " Subject: transfer time of motor from lathe to mill I will be purchasing a Sherline lathe package and the XYZ mill base in the near future. Note: only one motor and controller... I'm on a budget. According to the instructions (taken off the Internet) it takes only about one minute to transfer the motor and controller between the lathe and XYZ mill base (and vice versa). What are your experiences? Anyone. Thank you for your time. Howard -------- Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:58:52 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: transfer time of motor from lathe to mill Hi Howard, that's pretty much the case to just transfer the motor. There's only one screw holding it down. Basically it boils down to how much accuracy you're looking for. For typicaly hobbyist needs, using the key that's provided is probably sufficient. If you're looking for more accuracy, then the amount of time will be primarily how much time it takes you to set things up to get your desired level of accuracy. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:02:56 -0600 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: transfer time of motor from lathe to mill They are right, it only takes a minute. You unscrew it from the lathe and screw it onto the mill. It's a pain in the ass, when you have to move it back and forth several times, but it's not too bad. You are usually transfering your work from the lathe to the mill anyway, so it's just a few extra steps. I also use the Sherline motor to power other machines I have made (miniature saw and a thickness sander). You can buy the headstock post from Sherline for $5.00 and it's a simple matter to mount it on a 3 x 3 inch piece of 1/4" alum with a keyway cut into it. Using the same motor for several projects is sometimes a pain, but it makes the projects much less expensive. Tom ------- Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:15:54 -0800 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: transfer time of motor from lathe to mill If the mill base you're purchasing already has the Z-Axis slide and saddle, it's one setscrew to loosen the headstock from the mount on the lathe and position it on the mill. If your shop is like mine, it's about twenty-five minutes to find the allen wrench and about 60 seconds to loosen the screw, remove the base and reinstall on the other tool. Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 03:18:33 -0000 From: "Gary Severson" Subject: Re: Leadscrew nuts - Teflon/Polymer instead of Brass? > I was wondering why Sherline machines have brass nuts when there > exist very low friction materials like teflon and other polymers. > Using these low friction materials should greatly reduce wear and > result in less backlash over a longer period of time. Is there any > reason why brass is used? Threads in a polymer would wear way too fast and sacrifice precision imo. Sherline uses brass because they want the nut to wear out before the leadscrew. Gary Severson ------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 06:52:16 -0600 From: "Dan Horn" Subject: Re: cleaning the mill Hi Tony, I use a chip brush during the milling jobs, then with a small 1.5 gallon vacuum cleaner, suck up the debris. The only modification is to the vacuum hose which has an added length so the cleaner can set on the floor next to the desk work station. Happy Chips! Dan ------- SAFETY NOTE: Never use compressed air to blow away chips. Such practice is hazardous to people and machines! ------- Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:59:51 -0000 From: "Mark Vaughan" Subject: Re: Sherline T Nut Slots Sherline sells the T-slot cutters for +/- $45.00. As near as I can determine the cutters are not listed on any price list, but are a special under-the-counter item. Mark Vaughan ------- Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 21:22:08 -0000 From: "Nelson Wittstock" Subject: Re: Re: Sherline T Nut Slots I used a 1/4 inch straight mill and a Dremel bit for the "T" portion. It takes more than one pass but its worked out for me. The Dremel bit number is 198. Good luck, Nelson Wittstock ------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:44:27 -0000 From: "Bob Breed" Subject: Re: Reverse for the lathe? I believe that at Sherline web site, Tips section someone shows how to use two DPDT switches, that way both switches have to be in the same position and cuts down on the chance of a mistake. Bob ------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:04:12 -0800 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Reverse for the lathe? Yeah....I did it according to the instructions supplied by Sherline (with a clear warning that it was NOT recommended practice.) Caught the reverse switch with my coatsleeve while the lathe was running and instantly blew the brushes to dust. (The leading edge caught in the commutator segments and broke off a good sized hunk.) But it does work. And it is simple to do. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:06:00 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Reverse for the lathe? Accidental reversing can be prevented by installing a rotary reverse switch rather than a toggle switch. I have had chucks come off in reverse and it is a real thrill and a half, but when tapping the speed is so slow I have never had a problem in the ten years I have been doing it. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:06:28 -0800 From: Dave Martindale Subject: Re: Digest Number 1070 "Nance, Tom" wrote: >>There's a discussion of adding a reversing switch to the lathe on the Sherline web site. I just amounts to adding a DPDT switch on the wires leading from the electronics (connectors A and B) to the motor. Pay very close attention to their warning at the end of the text. It states that if you throw this switch while the motor is still turning, the reverse EMF from the motor will burn out the electronics. I just knew that if I installed this feature I would someday hit the switch by accident and so I passed. << I know someone who did this. In his case, the electronics survived, but the current was so high for a short period that it damaged the brush and brush holder inside the motor. To avoid this for sure, you need to make sure that the motor is stopped and the speed control disabled, or the speed turned back to zero, before connecting the motor in the opposite direction. This has been discussed here in the past, and several solutions were offered. One way is to get a switch that mechanically locks in the centre (no connection) position. You can accidentally knock this from either running position to off, but to get to the other running position you have to lift the switch handle to get it past the locked position. Someone else posted a way to add *two* switches in such a way that you had to change both of them to reverse the motor. Flipping either one switch alone simply disconnected the motor. The really elegant (but expensive) solution is to replace the controller with one designed for "four quadrant" operation. In this case, the motor always stays conected to the electronics one way, but the electronics can drive in either direction, and the forward/reverse switch is just an input to the electronics. If you flip the fwd/rev switch while the motor is running, the motor will be gradually decelerated to zero at a preset speed, then accelerated to the chosen speed in reverse. Dave ------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:47:17 -0000 From: "cobbkev" Subject: Home-grown CNC couplings For those of us with CNC "ready" equipment but without the final equipment electronics (funds): I have made several couplings to use the handwheels manually until I can purchase the remainder of the stepper motors. I made couplings out of 12L14 steel shafts and aluminum plates (6061-t6). The plates have a through-hole to align everything and stablize the shaft. They seemed to work fine but now the shaft is wearing out the holes. I was afraid to use aluminum shafts rubbing against the aluminum plate. I've read a past post about using a bushing. Should I bore out my existing center hole (looks like a little off center now with wear) and add a bushing? what material? are these just press-fit in the aluminum plate? how do I get it centered now that I've possibly worn the existing hole slightly off? I know the easy answer is to just go buy more stepper motors but I'm on a "getting married in 6 months" budget and I've already spent too much! Any ideas would be much appreciated... ------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:03:02 -0500 From: "Daniel J. Statman" Subject: Re: Home-grown CNC couplings For $40 plus shipping you can have three double shaft stepper motors. The resistance is not too great when under no electrical power. This will eliminate all of your problems. And you then have some starter motors for CNC. They are a little bit low on maximum holding torque, but will work just fine at slower speeds when you get the electronics to complete your CNC conversion. Here are the motors, no affiliation, etc. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2517214064&category=12577 Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:41:30 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Home-grown CNC couplings Hi Cobb, Bronze bushings are called for, brass would work as well. If you don't just want to make new plates, then you might indicate in the bolt holes in your plates, and work from there (how good was your initial hole layout? Or a corner used for a reference point??). Thin sheet metal for the plates? A 3/16" or 1/4" (or so) aluminum plate should have lasted a long time. Try a 3/8" hole, and a panel bushing like you find on old volume control pots. these bushings have a 3/8"-24 thd, and a shoulder as I recall. Ream for 1/4" shaft. A nut affixes the panel bushing to the plates. If your existing plates have a little adjustment room for the bolts, then you might just try using a 1/4" bit of shaft in a collet or drill chuck, center the plate as best you can, and work from there. As long as the result doesn't bind, you should have no problems. If it does bind with the new bushing, then you can try enlarging the bolt holes, and get a little extra adjustment there. Good luck! Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 23:38:30 EST From: catboat15x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Home-grown CNC couplings In a message dated 3/19/2003 11:50:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, kevcobbx~xxmsn.com writes: > Should I bore out my existing center hole (looks like a little off > center now with wear) and add a bushing? what material? If you bore out the holes, indicating on the OD the hole should come out round again. I would suggest bronze oillite bushings pressed into the holes. That should run forever on your steel shafts. John LBSC Virginia LBSC Tich 200 some feet of 3.5 inch ground level track -------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:32:55 -0000 From: "timgoldstein" Subject: Re: Home-grown CNC couplings I second this idea from Dan. The gentleman selling them (Paul) is a good guy to deal with and the motors are quite nice. I like to use a little more torque, but I did a Sherline conversion with a set of these motors and it worked great. I used a Xylotex drive and wired them half coil. X and Y was good for about 12 - 15 ipm and Z was solid at 9 ipm. So by getting these motors to mount your handles on you kill 2 birds with one stone. you get a solid mounting platform for the cranks and as soon as you can spend about $150 for a power supply and a Xylotex drive you will have a CNC machine running. Tim [Denver, CO] ------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:46:30 -0500 From: "Kevin P. Martin" Subject: RE: Home-grown CNC couplings I'm just trying to picture what's going on here, lets see if I have this straight... You have a Sherline mill with their CNC motor mounts on it, and, having no motors, you instead attached a plate onto the motor mount. This plate has a hole in it, in which you place a stub shaft. The stub shaft is coupled to the leadscrew inside the motor mount, and you have installed the handwheels outside your adapter plate. Right? If that is the case, why are your holes wearing off-centre? It seems to me the lateral forces (mostly the reaction to the torque you apply to the handwheel handle) on your shaft against your adapter plate should be pretty much balanced as you turn the handwheels by hand, so the hole might enlarge but should wear pretty evenly all around. You might want to investigate this a little before going any further... -Kevin Martin Thinkage Ltd. ------- Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:50:41 -0000 From: "mileagemayvary" Subject: Re: Home-grown CNC couplings In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "cobbkev" wrote: > For those of us with CNC "ready" equipment but without the final > equipment electronics (funds): > I have made several couplings to use the handwheels manually until I > can purchase the remainder of the stepper motors. I made couplings > out of 12L14 steel shafts and aluminum plates (6061-t6). The plates > have a through-hole to align everything and stablize the shaft. > They seemed to work fine but now the shaft is wearing out the > holes. I was afraid to use aluminum shafts rubbing against the > aluminum plate. I've read a past post about using a bushing. Any attempt to use a bushing which is the radio "pot" type with a nut on it is bound (literally) to fail because: 1) The Sherline mount has no opening so that you can hold the head of the bushing while you tighten the nut. 2) No matter how nicely you face this type of bushing it will bind when you tighten the nut unless you make it with a very sloppy hole. Inaccuracies of the motor mount/adaptor plate/ bushing alignment all add up to a jam. Been there tried that. A better way: Turn up two steel washers about 30mm diameter and about 2 mm thick, with a nice fitting hole in the middle for the shaft. Join these together using 2 small bolts which go into tapped holes on the "inside" washer. Enlarge the center hole on the "inside" washer. Make a sandwich with your adaptor plate in the middle with the shaft hole on the plate enlarged and the thru holes for the 2 bolts enlarged. Tighten lightly, rotate the shaft for a nice free feel and so this bearing gets centered. Tighten. This is how Sherline mounts the DRO sensors. Or you can buy the Sherline DRO bearings parts. And you can fit the DRO too but you were trying for minimal costs at this stage. ------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:16:00 -0000 From: "onecooltoolfool" Subject: Sherline Tool Changer - Sneak Peek I have uploaded a movie of a six position automatic toolchanger that I have developed to fit on a Sherline Vertical Mill. It is entirely self contained and requires no modification to the mill except the addition of a spacer block between the headstock and the Z column. The movie is in the "files" section in the "sherline tool changer" folder. It operates entirely from one double acting air cylinder. The tool change takes approximately 1 second. It will work with CNC or manual machines. The toolchanger will be entered in the 2003 Sherline Machinist's Challenge and can be seen at NAMES at the end of April. Kits, plans, and parts will be available this summer. Thanks Joe V. ------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:34:28 -0000 From: "rodger010451" Subject: Tailstock Mod?? I've been toying with the idea of milling away the "front" part of my Sherline tailstock to increase the range of my toolpost without having to reposition it. I have the older style tailstock that has the "clamp base" that extends all the way up to the front of the tailstock (overall length of base is 2 5/8"). I'm sure that I could just buy a newer style tailstock, but I wonder if it is really necessary. Would I lose enough sufficient rigidity of the tailstock clamping ability by cutting (say 5/8") some of the base away to give that much more range of the toolpost cutting ability? I also guess that I could use a tailstock extender, but I'm also not real sure that that expense is necessary either. Does anyone feel that cutting the tailstock base is a good or bad idea? Or is there a better solution? Thanks........Rodger ------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:16:23 -0700 From: "Marcus & Eva" Subject: Re: Tailstock Mod?? Hi Rodger: Cutting the base of the Sherline tailstock is exactly what Sherline does too, so there's no intrinsic difference between their cut and yours. What is different though, is the position of the clamp screw that holds the tailstock to the bed. You may need to drill and tap a new hole to recenter the clamping force if you cut a substantial amount from the tailstock. The result is that you'll have an unused hole...it can be plugged if you want to make the effort for the sake of cosmetics, but it is of no functional consequence. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:48:33 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Tailstock Mod?? Roger, one of the problems with the early clamp style tailstocks was repeatability depending on how tight the lock screw was. After I cut mine back as you plan to do it became even worse. I have never regretted replacing it with the new style and would strongly recommend it. The new style tailstock is solid and locks on to the front bed "V" way. They should have a picture on the web site. With the new tailstock I have had no repeatability problems and the extra reach is a big plus. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 11:44:01 -0400 From: "Bill Rutiser" Subject: Old/New tailstocks (was Tailstock Mod) I think there have been at least three Sherline tailstock designs. A split clamp type without an overhang in front. A split clamp type with a front overhang. The current gib type. Bill Rutiser ------- Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 23:53:16 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Jimsaw, was Re: A test post > At 04:58 PM 4/25/2003, Ron Romanski wrote: > >after mine and others testimonials - I can summarize thusly - what can > >you say about a Rolls Royce? - the JimSaw IS the Rolls of model saws - > After a little digging, I found a webpage that describes this saw, > which I had never heard about: > http://www.warriorgroup.org/Table%20Saw.htm > A great looking piece of equipment! Best regards, Randy Gordon-Gilmore I've ogled that web page many times, as well as the adverts for Byrnes' primary competitors. Its certainly an impressive product, although too pricey for my budget. Maybe I have more ambition than sense, but I'm building my own miniature table saw as a Sherline accessory. Initial tests are looking very good but I'm still working on the fence system and the miter gauge. The Byrnes saw is my target as far as performance, but mine is a totally unique design that owes very little to that or any other commercial offering. Being a lathe based design it actually has a superfical resemblance to my 20 year old Shopsmith. That resemblance is cosmetic only, however. The Shopsmith on its best day could only dream about the rigidity and precision I'm already getting out of my still unfinished creation. Jim Knighton ------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:41:17 -0700 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Re: which is better? Hi, Jim: I hope that your health problems aren't serious and that you're back to working with your tools. What type of digital camera did you choose? I've also enjoyed reading of your modifications to your Sherline, and look forward to reading the update. Carol & Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 03:02:24 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: which is better? [Refers to Jimsaw thread] Jerry, thanks for thinking of me and the kind words. I have persistent heart problems that really slow me down at times. Its been a couple of weeks since I've been able make many chips, but my my mind is working overtime coming up with new stuff. I wonder if I'll ever be able to build all the things I can see with my mind's eye. As for the camera, its a Sony DSC-P32 I'm purchasing from a local audio-visual supply house. They're a large outfit that provides equipment to most of the local radio and television stations and other folks in the local AV production business, schools, universities, etc. I went to them in an attempt to avoid fly-by-night operators and the electronics grey market. So far, however, it feels like I'm just getting the runaround. They tell me that this model is so new that it's still on the boat from Japan. In my ignorance I originally ordered an older model that Sony supposedly discontinued a few weeks ago when the new model was announced. According the local company's purchasing agent with whom I've spoken a couple of times now, Sony rejected the original order and substituted this new model - which unfortunately was not yet in the country. It might be BS, but how would I know? I'm a bit irritated and disgruntled about the length of time I've been waiting on them, though. Among other things, the addendum will include quite a bit about the "mini-Shopsmith" table saw. Since it's a lathe based design it actually has a superficial resemblence to my Mark V. The resemblence is only cosmetic, however. On its best days the Mark V could only dream about the rigidity and precision I'm already getting out of it. I dispensed with the tilting table and kept everything as solid and secure as possible. It has a dust collection hookup and all the finger guards/safety features normally found on full size commercial saws. I'm not going to make any premature claims as to precision and accuracy, but I've been trying to equal the performance of the "best of the best" commercial products. Initial tests are looking very good, indeed, but we'll just have to see what happens in the next few weeks. I'm still fiddling with the miter gauge and rip fence assemblies. There are also some "surprise" features that I'm reluctant to talk about for fear of having to eat my words if they don't work out as well as expected. The basic saw, however, is pretty much finished and working quite well. The saw is designed such that it can be built in a moderately well equipped hobby machine shop out of commonly available materials. It doesn't require any complex machining operations and is largely constructed from simple shapes. The most complex parts are borrowed straight from the Sherline parts bin. There will be other things as well, but given our past dialog I thought you might be interested in the table saw project. Regards, Jim Knighton ------- Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 14:39:37 -0000 From: "Tracy Atkinson" Subject: A very simple tailstock modification The problem of accidentally activating the ejector in the tailstock taper hole can be effectively mitigated by creating a mark. Apply blue to the outside of the tailstock barrel and carefully scribe the point at which the ejector acts. Remove the tailstock barrel, mount it on the lathe and with a pointed tool cut a very slight grove at your mark, or sightly to the right of it (when mounted in the stock). You do have to remember to watch for the mark, of course, but you will find that it will prevent accidental ejections if you do. Tracy in Avon CT ------- Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 20:09:52 -0000 From: "Bruce Buchner" Subject: Re: A very simple tailstock modification I have been having the same problem with the tail stock ejecting. What would like to do is drill a hole that I could put a pin in to stop it from retracting far enough to eject. The problem with a scribe mark is when I am retracting a drill I am usually watching the drill tip come out not the tailstock. Does anyone know if the tailstock is drillable or is it hardened? Bruce Buchner -------------------- Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 15:59:51 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: removing crossslide from lathe saddle [HEAVIER CROSS SLIDE FOR LATHE FOR MILLING] Al, Sherline offers in their parts list #67036 described as an "8 inch CNC lathe cross slide table." This part is identical with the mill table extrusion and .250" thicker than the standard table. I have this part on my lathe and have found it to be more robust, stable, and less prone to flexing than the standard part. The extra length is nice, but the real benefit comes from the increased thickness. It does not come with a new lead screw - you use the one for the standard table. My lathe has permanently installed risers, so the loss of .250" clearance didn't bother me at all. Since the table is thicker, the standard tool holders don't fit. In my case I've used standard tool holders with shop-built custom risers. When I installed the thicker table I had to remove a corresponding .250" from each of these risers, not that this was difficult, however. Installing this larger table presented no particular difficulties. I had to trim the plastic jib strip to fit, but that was all. Although I haven't done it yet, I believe that the milling table/lead screw can be fitted to the lathe without too much difficulty. If you have both a mill and a lathe you could swap the tables to test the feasibility of the setup. Keep in mind that the mill table assembly has a more robust saddle mounting than does the lathe and that might present some difficulty depending on your application. Jim Knighton ------- Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 10:23:35 -0500 From: Ken Grunke Subject: quick-release mill column? Has anyone here "thunk" up another way to attach the mill column to the base that's more convenient than the two bolts going up through the base? My mill is on a shop-made baseplate giving the option of attaching the column off to the side for a horizontal mill configuration, plus I use the column on the cross-slide of my Compact 8 lathe. I was thinking of a conversion along the lines of the post that holds the headstock--using two of those in place of the 1/4" bolts, with the setscrews into the side of the column base. But I wonder if that would give a tight enough connection. Another possibility is some kind of camlock design, similar to a lathe tailstock's lock screw. I have some rough ideas in mind, just wondering if anyone has something more tangible. Buying another column would solve the lathe situation, but not for the horizontal mill. Looking forward to ideas, suggestions, etc. Ken ------- Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 08:52:21 -0700 From: "Marcus and Eva" Subject: Re: quick-release mill column? Hi Ken: This was a problem I gave some thought to when I still owned a Sherline mill, and wanted the ability to switch from vertical to horizontal mode quickly.The solution I had in mind (but never got around to implementing) was to cut tee slots into the base and the horizontal mounting plate, and make a single long tee nut with two tapped holes in it. That would allow me to drill through the aluminum part of the column for two long bolts from the top, and since they would both go into the same tee nut, it would prevent the tee nut from flopping around. A lightweight compression spring between the nut and the mill column would also help to keep the nut in the proper position to allow it to be slid into the tee slot easily. Tightening the bolts from the top would mean that you could get away from the nuisance of having to turn the mill upside down or hang it partly over the table edge all the time to change configurations As I've said, I never actually tried it, but I can't see anything wrong with the concept. I'm concerned that the concepts you've talked about might not have enough poop to hold the column down securely. It's an awfully long cantilever between the cutter and the mounting point when the head is up in the air a bit. Cheers Marcus ------- Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:54:24 -0400 From: "Shorty Leatherwood" Subject: Re: quick-release mill column? Ken, I don't see why using the configuration similar too the headstock would not work. Before I got my mill I used the milling column for the lathe and it attached with only one of the pins just exactly in place of the head stock. I was not able to tell any stability problem with this set up. It did of course use the key in it as well. I plan on making a new base for my machine where I can use this now not needed column for a horizontal mill column. I planned on using the same setup as the headstock to quickly install/remove this additional column. see ya, shorty ------- Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:32:22 -0000 From: "variousgroups" Subject: Horizontal Mill Base from Conversion Kit as Permanent Base To add mass and solidity to the Sherline 5400 mill I bought and use just the base from the Horizontal Mill Conversion Kit. Works very well. Also, it has lots of convenient holes in which you can temporarily store all sorts of useful items as you're working, allen key, end-mill holder rod, small paint brush for lubricant, etc. Mike ------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:54:03 -0000 From: "dqrwagoner" Subject: My Lathe and Mill Power Feeds I have uploaded some pictures of the way that I modified my lathe and mill so I can have power feed to "Dave's Power Feed" in the photo section. This is definitely overkill and not for everyone. I hated turning the handles on long cuts and I often wondered how stepper motors worked. Sooo, I found some oddball surplus variable reluctance motors for $5.00 each, made a controller using a PIC16f84 a driver chip some driver transistors etc and an old Compaq 18V laptop power supply. I wrote the software for the PIC and made it so I can select which axis and the speed I wanted to move the selected axis at. I wound up using pulse width modulation to get really nice control at really slow speeds. I get a range of about 1 revolution in 10 seconds to about 5 revolutions per second. I have about 32 separate speeds. The oddball VR motors worked out better then I had expected because each motor has 3 coils instead of 4. This let me use the extra pins on the PIC to drive a bar LED to give me an indication (through a serial to parallel chip) of the selected speed (I just output a binary value to the LED). I actually like the VR motors because they do not have permanent magnets for chips to stick to. I thought that this might show how involved you can become when you have too much time on your hands. I considered using a power screwdriver as was suggested in earlier postings, but this would have made too much sense. I really have no serious interest in CNC. I actually enjoy "twisting the knobs" for the most part. I just wanted to get the better finishes, save my wrist and learn a little about how steppers work. Best Regards Dave Wagoner ------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:32:37 -0000 From: "dqrwagoner" Subject: Re: My Lathe and Mill Power Feeds A variable reluctance motor is probably the simplest (and oldest?) type of stepper motor. It has no magnets in it. It has an iron core surrounded by the coils. Today they usually are used with some kind of feedback so that the controller can monitor the position and constantly change the voltage to be able to get them up to a high speed (You CNC guys jump in any time here). The changing magnetic field drags the iron core around. They do not seem to be able to be stepped as easily as "regular" steppers with magnets. I had a lot of trouble until I started using PWM to get finer control between steps. In any case they are fast enough for me (~12->15ipm max). Any higher then that and they do not have enough torque to move the carriage without stalling (I never cut at these speeds). I usually only need 2 to 5 ipm to cut and at that rate I have more then enough torque. Dave P.S. I will be happy to answer any questions about the power feeds. I "designed" and made it on the fly, so I may have to go back and remember what I did in some cases. ------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:33:41 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: Lathe duplicator....? I don't have one, but you should take a look at the Royal Products web site (www.royal-products.com). Their duplicator is designed specifically for the Sherline lathe and with the needs of model shipbuilders in mind. The writeup also describes their duplicator as being specifically for metal projects and the illustrative photos show the duplicator being used to turn brass cannon. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but its there and apparently it works reasonably well. I hope this helps. Jim Knighton ------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:16:28 -0500 From: "Nance, Tom" Subject: RE: Web services provider I imagine that most of you guys know this, but there may be a few who don't. The easiest way to reverse the sherline motor is to lift the cover of the box containing the speed control (a screw right above the drive belt) and reach in and switch the wires at connectors marked "A" and "B". The are just terminal lugs so they slip on and off quite easily. BTW, unless you want to blow sparks out of your ears, be sure to pull the power plug out of the wall. There's 110V in the box even when the switch is off so becareful. I've been entertaining my family for years working on small appliances. Whenever I start to work on a toaster or something, they call all the neighbors over and everybody sits around and waits for me to light myself up. They think it's such a hoot. The Sherline site has a paper on how to install a reversing switch. But I figure since it is so rarely done, just switching the wires is easy enough. Tom Nance Corpus Christi, TX ------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 02:27:37 -0400 From: "JERRY G" Subject: Re: Re: Lathe Problems [sherline] >>For reasons I haven't researched yet, if I use the alignment key under one of my lathe headstocks, it doesn't run true. The key forces it to cut a taper, but I've never neasured how much. I don't know if anybody else has this problem, but if you do, you should be aware of it so you can compensate. Someday I'll grind myself an offset key, but I haven't been that frustrated with it yet. Jim Ash << Jim, try taking out the key, leave the lock snug, and adjust the headstock to alignment. cut a trial piece, light cuts.When good, lock the heck out of the cam lock. Now, grind the key until it is a medium tapping fit and tap it in. Regards, Jerry G ------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:31:00 -0400 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: Cure my ignorance For decorative parts like you are talking about, there is no need for high accuracy. You really need the accuracy when you are creating a mechanical apparatus and the parts need to fit together and inside or around each other. I only make decorative jewelry items with my Sherline machines. I tilt the head of my lathe about 5 times a day, and return it to straight with the key. I have never check the straight-ness of the headstock. I have never trammed any of my mills. I did align the rotary table with a dial indicator, but have never moved the rotary table or used the indicator since. Some of my mills have been running everyday for 2 years. It completely depends on what you are trying to make. You will know when you need higher accuracy, and then you can screw around with your lathe and mill for as many hours as you'd like to get it set-up for that special job. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:31:05 -0000 From: "Jim Lewis" Subject: Flipper - new quick-change method I've been working to perfect a new kind of quick tool change method. I'm pleased to finally be ready to offer this time-saving new device. I've named it the "Flipper". Until now the main ways to change tool posts were the cumbersome hex key or an expensive complex quick change tool post system. Now there's a better way - a unique lever. The Flipper offers several benefits - please read about the advantages at http://www.emachineshop.com/frog/flipper.htm . Regards, Jim Lewis ------- NOTE TO FILE: There was a discussion in the Sherline group in September 2003 about the quality of Sherline bearings that broadened to a discussion of jewellers' lathes. Read some interesting bearing facts, and the relative merits of older style jewellers' lathes and modern lathes like Sherline (just as easily could have been Taig/Peatol brand representing the modern precision lathe) in the "Bearings and Bushings" text file. ------- Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:18:35 -0000 From: "danpines" Subject: Re: relocation of milling column on lathe In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "danpines" wrote: > I have been using a 4410 for about 6 months. when I ordered it I > also ordered a milling column but have used it very little so far. > Now I plan to devote more time to developing some milling skills. I > used the lathe to make 1/4" and 3/8" end mill holders (as I am not > equipped to cut the 3/4" thread for the nose I started with a blank > Taig part threaded on one side). I wanted to start by making some > riser blocks and have quickly discovered that the axis travel is quite > limited. The first thing I did was to order a spacer for the milling head. > I am now looking at relocating the column to about midway behind the > lathe bed so I will have a very long travel at least on one axis. I plan > to permanently mount the column with screws to an aluminium block > (no key at first, perhaps later)and attach this block to the board on > which the lathe is assembled. Did any of you ever try that? Are there > any obvious or hidden pitfalls which I should try to avoid? A couple of weeks ago I posted a question on the Sherline group asking whether anyone has ever moved the milling column (Z axis) behind the lathe bed. Unfortunately no one responded except for one comment to not forget to use a key. I went ahead and did it. I used a scrap piece of duraluminium for the base. At first I assembled the column with 2 screws as used on the mill. This proved inconvenient because when I wanted to move the column to its normal location at the end of the lathe bed i had to flip the base board upside down to get at the screws. Next step was to use the Sherline quick assemble system - less accurate but far more convenient. Milled a key slot on the new base and drilled / bored for adding a pivot bought from Sherline. I hope that the photos are self explanatory, except for the auxilliary base which i added at the last moment as a storage place for the column when not in use. Here I just turned a cylindrical pivot from aluminium instead of the original contoured steel pivot. It is working nicely in that I now have a very long travel possible on one axis. In addition, I can now configure for horizontal milling. This is not as stable as the metal base offered by Sherline for horizontal milling. However, the lathe bed is not as stable as the mill to start with so who cares? regards dan P.S. I have posted the photos [to this group]. I think there is enough detail if you view them full size. I have also added a photo of allen key glued permanently to tailstock. this tip was published some time ago by another member. i tried it and it is a blessing. added a piece of teflon tube to the allen key to get a better grip. i also added an permanent allen key to the qctp but removed it after a couple of days as it seemed to always get in my way. ------- Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:24:11 -0800 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Re: relocation of milling column on lathe Hi Dan: I've seen similar things done with a Unimat, but never on a Sherline. The conversion looks really nice. I think that I'd add one of the lathe headstock risers to the vertical column to get more space between the column and the carriage. Jerry ------- Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:15:56 -0000 From: "danpines" Subject: Re: relocation of milling column on lathe jerry, i do have a spacer or riser block which serves 3 functions: 1. to raise the headstock on the lathe. used together with home made riser block for the tool holder (shown on extreme left of mill front view photo) 2. to raise the mill column when required 3. to space the headstock from the column on the mill (get a "deeper throat"). A very useful accessory. regards dan ------- Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:12:15 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Lathe gibs... I'm hoping that someing in the forum can point me in the right direction with a problem I'm having with the gibs on my lathe - they won't stay tight. I adjust them for a snug fit and no play, lock everything down nice and tight and for a while everything works just fine. But after maybe three or four hours of use the gibs have loosened of their own accord and I have to go through the process all over again. There isn't anything odd happening that I can observe, although the problem is more pronounced on the long axis. The cross slide does the same thing, just more slowly. This is really beginning to bug me since at the present time the gibs need to be adjusted at least every other day, and sometimes more frequently. After searching the archives it appears that others may have had this same problem, although I haven't found any documented solutions. Before launching off into another round of modifications, probably involving replacement of the factory gibs with brass or bronze, does anyone know of a permanent or semi-permanent solution to this problem short of major surgery? Thanks, Jim Knighton ------- Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:49:26 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Lathe gibs... Jim, I assume you are discussing Sherline equipment. If so I have also had this problem. First make sure the lock screw is engaging the rod that holds the gib in place. They are a little short and sometimes the screw will not engage them. Next lay a piece of 320 grit emery cloth on a flat surface and sand both sides of the gib flat. Some of mine have had high spots that have made adjustment difficult. This should solve your problem. Jerry Kieffer ------- From: RichD Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:33 pm Subject: Sherline Z axis - IDEAS "Thomas R. Bank" wrote: > Sorry, I meant a stub shaft mount for the current motor pulley, not the > motor itself. The flex shaft goes between the stub motor pulley connected > to the mill head and the motor itself. Tom > "Thomas R. Bank" wrote: >> "P. J. Hicks" Bob_yz, >> This seems to be a very common problem with Sherline's mostly due to the >> weight of the spindle head, motor and control box and its awkward off >> axis mounting. There have been many 'fixes' devised by members here and >> other places.... >> You are right, we have seen many complaints and solutions, some of which >> result in canceling the horizontal milling capability. I don't have a >> CNC rig, so this is just off the top of my head, but has anyone tried >> developing a stub shaft mount for the Sherline mill motor and then >> rigging up a flex-shaft arrangement to the motor for power? If I were >> doing that and since the Z axis has to travel up and down, I would mount >> the motor beside and behind the mill Z axis with the shaft sticking up. >> The flex loop would then be able to absorb the travel and with the mill >> head free of the off balance weight it should ride up and down at least >> somewhat freer. Just a thought.Season's greetings, Tom Bank >> P.S.: My other thought is to try building a little knee for the mill >> table to ride up and down on and let the head stay in one place. 8^). Tom, Bob, gang, This may sound nutty, but may be acceptable, tho not cheap. On the 5400 mill, add a companion vertical slide mounted on the rear of the column mounting block, directly behind the existing column. This slide carries the motor and is parallel driven by another Z stepper or belted from the Z motor. The motor faces the rear, away from the mill. The motor pulley is belted to an intermediate pulley between the two columns and carried by the rear column on a bracket. Another belt drives the spindle from the center pulley. It may be possible to place the spindle motor between the columns. More compact. The top of the two columns are connected to avoid flex from the belt pull, etc. So, now you have a light weight Z axis and a following spindle motor drive carried independently. What do ya'll think about that? Comments please. RichD ------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:37:27 -0000 From: "mileagemayvary" Subject: Re: Z-Axis Backlash Lock P/N 4017Z In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "Mike Joyce" wrote: >The price for the conversion kit, for people who didn't buy the system is >$35.00 USD + freight. If you have any questions, or you would like to >receive your P/N 4017Z please email me/call us at Sherline (760)727-5857 Hi Mike, Good to see someone from the factory around here again. I will be getting one of these. I have been doing some extensive machining last few days and often run into a small problem and it is something that has come up here from time to time. The difficulty we users outside USA have in getting 10-32 etc bolts. The 32mm long one used in the hold downs is really hard to find. Ended up making some extra ones to hold stuff on the tooling plate. Could Sherline put together a couple of packets of socket head US thread assorted bolts as a part #? Rob ------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:08:17 -0000 From: "Flosi Gudmundsson" Subject: Re: Z-Axis Backlash Lock P/N 4017Z I live outside of USA and had this problem too. Now I just use 5mm bolts instead. They are quite similar and fit the teenuts if engagement is small. If I had to replace one of the longer bolts I would replace it with 5mm and make a fitting teenut from 10mm square. The size difference of the hex keys is so small that you can use them interchangeably. Flosi in Iceland ------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 07:15:12 -0000 From: "Tom Gould" Subject: Re: Vintage type lathes similar to Sherline? If the Sherline lathe is big enough for your projects, why not create a lathe stand with a more vintage look? I've uploaded a picture of my lathe table (in an album labeled "Tom Gould"). The table has a wooden top on a heavy set of cast iron legs from an old treadle sewing machine. I found the legs at a flea market. I disassembled them and paid to have the parts sandblasted to remove the old paint and rust (cover the treadle pivots with a durable tape). I primed and painted the parts with a couple of coats of flat black Krylon. The top is 3/4" birch plywood with an edge trim of 1x2 maple. There is a short riser for the lathe in the middle of the table. I've had the lathe mounted this way for over 10 years and it's a very nice height for a seated operator. The table is small, but because of the heavy legs it has more than enough mass to stay put when I am using the lathe. I have my Sherline mill mounted the same way. I do wish I had made the tops for both machines a bit bigger. A set of drawers for the various pieces and parts would have been nice too, but it was well beyond my woodworking skills at the time. And yes, the foot treadle works. I'm still dreaming up a good use for it... A foot driven power feed? Driving a cross slide mounted cutting bit? Tom ------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:34:10 -0500 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Electric Shock I just got a huge jolt from my Sherline lathe. I had the lathe plugged in but not turned on, switch in the off position and speed control turned all of the way down. I was turning the 3-jaw chuck very slowly with my left hand to inspect the polishing I was doing on a ring, and my right hand inadvertantly touched the cross-slide handwheel. Definitely an AC line zap through my left hand and up my arm. After jumping back, I tested it again and got a small shock as I was much more prepared to pull away this time ;-). I had been polishing with emery cloth and there was some dust covering the machine. I vacuum it up and vacuumed around the electronic speed controller. Plugged the lathe back in and no more shocking behavior. Any ideas?? Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:47:58 -0000 From: "Flosi Gudmundsson" Subject: Re: Electric Shock I got shock from my lathe few years back. I traced it to swarf that had come inside the switch. Turning the whole thing upside down and shaking, solved the problem temporarily, but there is some rubber thing that you can order from Sherline that solves this problem for good. I warned about this when it happened to me, but got the feeling that people felt that I was just being negative. regards, Flosi in Iceland ------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 15:23:11 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Electric Shock-testing bad bround Dan, when I worked in an industrial plant electronics lab and production area, it was a common problem for the typical AC outlet and power strip grounding socket pin wipers to get bent out of good contact. Bad design. Nothing has been done to change this bad situation. Test from the machine controller heatsink (where the power cord green wire terminates), to the cord plug ground pin (big round one). Wiggle the cord and pin to be sure it is not broken internally and intermittant. Test from the outlet ground socket to the center screw for continuity. Plug in the cord and test from the heatsink to the socket screw. All should be solid very low ohms and no voltage. RichD ------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 15:28:25 -0500 From: RichD Subject: Re: Re: Electric Shock Flosi, on a lathe where the switch faces up, that is definitely a possibility. Fine metal dust can complete a circuit to the hot parts of the switch and make the lever/mounting hot. The switch is mounted on a plastic housing, isolated. A good safety fix would be to add a wire to the grounding connection and the other end pinched under the switch mount inside the box. RichD ------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:36:08 EST From: wanlikerx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Electric Shock Are you sure this was not an electrostatic shock from the polishing, the anodized surfaces on a Sherline can be a very good insulator, and the lathe parts can charge up like a capacitor to veryhigh voltage. This has happened to me in the past. The clue here is a large shock, a small one, and then none. bill CCED ------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:28:24 -0500 From: "Statman Designs, LLC" Subject: Re: Electric Shock Definitely not a capacitance shock. The first time since I wasn't expecting it it lasted as long as I want to hold the cross-slide handwheel and the 3-jaw chuck with opposite hands. The second time it was smaller because I was just testing to make sure it was still live, and it was. After vacuuming the switch it is no longer live. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com dan.statmanx~xxrennlist.com ------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 20:35:30 -0000 From: "Jason Spangle" Subject: Re: Electric Shock I made one of those "on" green lamps for my lathe... Telling me the lathe switch was in the "on" position. This is usefull for people like me who sometime forget that the lathe is on, but the speed control is turned down to zero voltage. This topic of elecric shock might make me reposition the control box, or simply buy the rubber boot for the switch. I do a lot of brass work, and the fine dust will be a problem sooner or later if I don't remember to blow off the dust when I clean the lathe every now & then. Jason ------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:36:23 -0500 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Re: Electric Shock Hi, Flosi: The "rubber thing" is a cover for the toggle switch that replaces the nut that holds the switch to the motor controller "cabinet." I was able to find a pack of two (one red, one black) from my local Radio Shack store a year or two ago. The pair cost me a couple of bucks, USD. Jerry ------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:33:05 -0800 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Dremel flange, Rt angle, Flywheel I have just posted the plans for a flange that allows the Dremel right angle adapter to be used along with the Dremel adapter. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SherlineCNC2/files/Dremel/ The flange bolts onto the side of the Dremel adapter. A small shaft of additional length replaces the one supplied with the rt. angle adapter. Pictures show the adapter in use in drilling a 6" aluminum ring from the INSIDE, as was discussed a few weeks previously on the lists (making a flywheel). Also shown is an initial 6" tooling plate (made on the Sherline) for use on the rotary table. This is used to support flywheel experiments for my baby beam engine project. The tooling plate is made by roughing out a 6" disk of 1/4" aluminum (scrap) on the bandsaw. Next, layout and drill 4 0.159" diameter holes on a 2.5" bolt circle. due to the size of the plate, you'll have to layout and drill the holes manually, as the Sherline doesn't have the throat to get to all four holes in one clamping. The plate can now be clamped onto the rotary table, and an endmill used to finish up the outside diameter. I then used the rotary table to position drill and tap 10-32 holes on a 4.5" bolt circle. These are used to hold down the rings. I drilled and tapped holes every 60 degrees, and every 45 degrees. These are clear of the rotary table, and are easy to drill and tap 10-32. To drill additional holes, you'll have to use packing under the disk to prevent drilling into the rotary table! But before removing the stock, use a 1/4" endmill and the table's rotation to mill a 3/8" hole accurately centered to the table's axis. This hole is useful for setting up the rotary table by use of a piece of 3/8" rod held in a tool holder (not perfect, but adequate for a lot of jobs, and a good place to start for using the dial indicator to "clock it in"). A 3/8" or 1/2" thick tooling plate would be preferable, which would allow enough stock to counter sink the 4 mounting holes (maybe next time...). Tip: To get the 4 mounting bolts into T-nuts without pulling your hair out, position the nuts approximately, then use 1" long bolts initially to allow the disk to be lifted slightly (so you can peek underneath, and see the T-nuts). This makes it easy to get the bolts started. After all 4 are in, the long bolts can be replaced with those of appropriate length (works on the regular tooling plate too!). Alan KM6VV ------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 04:42:30 -0000 From: "dqrwagoner" Subject: More on Backlash Modifications. Since the last discussion on backlash on the lathe, I have made a modification to the Z axis of my 2000 mill and the X axis of my 4400 lathe. I have uploaded pictures into the folder "Lathe Backlash Mod". I extended the concept of the backlash nut that is on the mill and the modification that I added to the Y axis of my lathe. I have added these modifications to both of my machines and after MUCH fiddling did see a big improvement. As was mentioned in previous threads, this mod is really not necessary for manual lathes. I simply did it for a better feel and to see how it would turn out. This mod may be of interest to the CNC guys. I basically took the saddle nut and bored out a recess .125 in. deep and then made a 3/8- 20 LH threaded nut to act as the backlash nut. I knurled the nut so that the "pointer" would have something to hold on to. I was careful to get a really snug fit on the nut and bored recess. The mod really makes a difference on the lathe. After a lot of adjustment, I could not see any slop in the carriage. The Mill was harder. ½ a thousands backlash seems to be the best I can do on the Z axis so far. The weight of the motor makes it hard to get it adjusted, but it may get better when the nut finally "seats" with use. I hope that this is of use to someone. As Always, Best Regards to All. David Q. R. Wagoner, ------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:52:10 -0800 (PST) From: Henry Flymo Subject: Re: More on Backlash Modifications. I solved my back lash on my cnc sherline lathe by making a tube to fit in the lead screw hole from the back of the saddle for the y -axis. The hole is about .302 and 2.375 deep to the leadnut. I made the tube .300 dia and 2.25 total length. One end is threaded in .250 with .257 clearance hole the rest of the way to the other end which has a .430 dia. by 3/32 flange. The flange is filed out to have teeth matching the star locking wheel like the newer models. This tube (back lash nut) is screwed in till the star flange is against the face of the saddle. Now the only modification to the saddle is to drill and tap for the locking star. Note: The lead srcew is right hand 1/4-20 also the threaded end of tube is opposite the star end. For my z-axis I made a modified verson of the one they just made for the mill. With these backlash adjustments I have the same couple of thousands on all axis of mill and lathe. P.S. where as I in the past told Joe Martin of improvements to his products and got nothing in return when he used them I've decided to give them all of you. If you need help with these tips or others I have I will be glad to help or for a reasonable fee make them for you. C.Fox, Keep those chips fly'n E-mail:Flymo15666x~xxyahoo.com ------- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:49:48 -0800 From: "David" Subject: Re: durability of alloy slideways? I really hate the alloy in the Sherline: it's almost impossible to mount work on the table without making a tiny ding, and any ding destroys the accuracy of the flat of the table. I finally went to a local machine shop and had him make me a milling table that completely covers the Sherline table in 1/4" steel. Now I can mount work without dings (Even with steel, you have to be careful, though.) And, by using shims under the table, I was able to align the mill in X and Y axes. ------- Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:46:50 -0000 From: "dan pines" Subject: modified steady rest I have uploaded 2 photos (folder "dan pines") showing ball bearings added to the sherline steady rest. With this addition, no marks are left on the work and I can also use it when turning wood. I used the ball bearings i had on hand but smaller ones would have been better because the bearings limit the maximum size of the work. I press fitted a shaft with the end threaded 10-32" to fit the original threaded hole. note that you should leave enough clearance to accomodate the socket head screw which holds the finger. I already realized that I should have milled a slot on the face of the shaft - for a screwdriver. since i forgot to do it, i tightened the shaft to the steady rest using small pliers which fit between the bearing and the frame. If you need to accomodate larger size work you should make the shaft longer, leaving more clearance, and add a slot for the washer of the socket head screw. this way the finger can be moved outward. Last but not least, it helps to use a ball end allen key when the socket screw is partially covered by the bearing. [and in a follow up msg: have uploaded another photo in folder "dan pines" this one shows the fingers with the ball bearings reversed. in this configuration very large work can be accomodated for turning (not for facing as the steady rest frame will get in the way). the soda can shown in the photo is standard size ! for anyone using risers i believe this is a must.] regards dan pines authorized sherline distributer ------- Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:30:08 -0000 From: "dan pines" Subject: chip guard for lathe i have uploaded 2 photos of a quickie chip guard i made today. i did not like the conventional design where the guard is fixed to the headstock because it does not stop the chips if the work is long (as is the case when working between centers or with rest) i affixed it with a simple bracket to the t-slot on the table and it pivots to the right to allow tool and work change. if it interferes - for any reason - removal of one screw is all it takes. using a nicely rounded guard may have looked more professional but 2 flat pieces assembled with brackets work just as well and saves a lot of forming work. regards dan ------- Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 06:43:52 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: chip guard for lathe Hi Dan, very nice. It got me thinking. You could add a back to it as well. And then instead of mounting with a screw, have a couple of pins which fit into a couple of holes (either in the aluminum holder like you did, or for the brave of heart, directly in the crossslide). Then you could easily lift the guard entirely out of the way for setup. It's definitely easier to build something like what you did than to make a whole enclosure :) Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:15:33 -0000 From: "dan pines" Subject: Re: chip guard for lathe hi dave I am glad you liked it. after all, this is the purpose of publishing... Thanks for suggesting a back wall. I will certainly add one eventually. I have a slight problem with it because I have mounted an extra base for the milling column just behind the ways and it gets in the way. however, i will leave the mounting as it is now. i first considered an enclosure which can be lifted off but decided that there would never be a free flat space for it near the lathe. in addition, i was concerned about the risk of knocking it inadvertantly into the revolving chuck. the guard is light weight and even with the back wall added the single screw (or pinion) will hold it safely. regards dan ------- Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:44:52 -0000 From: "Bryan Hassing" Subject: Question for Dan Pines Hi Dan: You recently mentioned your lathe sports an auxiliary base behind the Z-axis ways. I've seen several combination lathe/mill machines set up this way and would like to hear your assessment of its utility. I too have a long-bed lathe to which a rotary milling column is sometimes attached. When milling or drilling at large angles, the end mill or drill bit is offset significantly from the small lathe cross- slide's center. I think I'd like the long X-axis travel your setup provides to accomodate this offset. Did you encounter any difficulty in creating your alternate milling- column base? Does it have any rigidity issues? Given the lathe cross- slide's travel of 4.25", compared to a 5400 mill's 5.00" Y-axis travel, are you still generally satisfied with your machine's Y-axis travel? Finally, do you think a seperate mill would offer significantly enhanced milling capabilities compared to your current setup? Thanks. Bryan ------- Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:13:30 -0000 From: "dan pines" Subject: Re: Question for Dan Pines bryan, let me start by saying that i am not a real pro machinist. having said that, i have no doubt that a full fledged mill is better than a lathe with a milling column. since i do not have a mill and i had the milling column, i looked for a more versatile solution than the one suggested by sherline, especially regarding the very limited travel. i decided to experiment and there are photos in my folder. the only real problem was that the assembly of the ways to the bed on the lathe is not as solid as a real mill. what keeps them together are 2 small screws and the system was not designed for a force applied downward. you have to make sure those 2 screws are tight and joe martin suggested to use loctite as well, which by the way i did not do. i placed the base for the column so that i can do horizontal milling as well as the more conventional vertical milling. this gives a really extended travel on the long bed lathe and i am happy with it. in this horizontal configuration i have also used a saw with very good results. i have also found out that for a really small job a milling attachment is more convenient than using the milling column. in either case i always use a home made milling plate on top of the lathe cross slide. i had a milling attachmennt from taig and just drilled the necessary 2 tapped holes on the milling plate. to sum up, i invested a piece of scrap aluminium and a few hours of work and ended up with a lot more options than i had before. i would not recommend it for production or heavy duty work, a proper mill would be better (or so i assume as i do not have one) 3 more points to round off my description above: 1. there are 4 screws holding the the ways, not 2. two are accessible from the top and the other two from beneath the bed. 2. i also bought a spindle to hold the column to the new base. (about 5$) 3. the original way of mounting the column is still there of course. i use either one as the needs dictate. regards dan ------- Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:54:48 -0000 From: "dan pines" Subject: live center with replaceable tips I have long felt the need to have a live center with the possibility to replace tips and best of all with 3/8"-24 thread to fit a drill chuck. Such devices are available (thanks to group member Jim Knighton who pointed me to their availability). Unfortunately these are quite expensive (100$ ++ with a tip selection) and also they are usually with MT1 so they will not fit the Sherline tailstock. This weekend i decided to see whether I could make one. the result can be seen in the photo section, last photo in folder "dan pines". I drilled the whole length for 3/8-24 inside tapping. Then I bored one end to accept 15 mm. OD bearing. Total depth 15mm to hold 2 bearings and a spacer. (of course any other size of bearing will do)I did the boring on the lathe. I then tapped the other end (inside) for the Sherline adapter. All work was done without removing the work in order to ensure concentric results. I turned a shaft to press fit into the inside diameter of the bearing. In fact, I used 2 bearings with a spacer press fitted between them. The spacer OD is about 13mm i.e. smaller than the bearings. I faced it on both sides so it has a thin flange on both sides (thicker in the center) and does not touch the outer races of the bearings. Next i drilled a hole for a tommy bar thru the outside body and the spacer. without it there would be no easy way to thread the tips onto the live center. Last step was to fit the shaft with the bearings and spacer into the body. That's it !! All in all it took about 2 hours as I designed on the go. I haven't made any tips yet. I mounted it on the tailstock using the sherline MT0 drill chuck adapter, thread a 1/2" chuck on the other end of the live center, held a long 3/8" bar between a chuck on the headstock and the chuck on the live center. I let it run at about half speed for 15 minutes or so. worked beautifully and did not heat up. no visible wobble at all at any speed. Just in case anyone is curious, I did not bother to indicate it for runout. A nice mornings' project resulting in a useful accessory, at least for me. two notes regarding the photo: the slot at the right end of the body is meaningless, it was a piece of leftover bar and I did not bother to face it. The portusion on the left side of the shaft was first left there on purpose because I started with the threading (just in case it did not come out true). I then held the shaft by this end for turning down the rest of the shaft to the ID of the bearing. For some reason I did not cut it off. (no problem with the chuck which is anyway bored thru). regards dan pines ------- Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:22:06 -0000 From: "andesign2" Subject: Enclosure. I noticed the mention of enclosures in another post so I thought I would share my experience. I have built myself a simple enclosure out of www.8020.net "Quick Frame" and plexiglass. I looked into making an enclosure out of a standard aluminum t-slot extrusion but it got way too expensive. The cost of the standard extrusion was not too bad but the cutting and machining charges quickly added up. Instead I used their "Quick Frame" product. I bought 4 - 18" tall pieces of 90° double flange extrusion, 4 end caps, and 4 - 90° plastic base pieces. I believe it cost about $35 after shipping. The cool thing about the quick frame is that you only need a mallet to put it together. The extrusion simply presses/hammers on to the plastic joints. I installed the 4 extrusion posts at the corners of my mill's wood baseplate. Then I purchased a sheet of .25" thick plexiglass ($40) from Home Depot and had them cut it to size. The plexiglass then slides into the channels on the post. The only downfall is that I don't have a door that I can swing open but I can reach over the enclosure and when necessary I slide the front piece of plexiglass out. So far I am very happy with my $75 setup, no chips have flown out even when flycutting. The only thing I might change if I had to do it over again is adding extrusion between the posts at the top to help make it more rigid/robust. It really isn't necessary though and would double the cost of the 80/20 pieces. If anyone is interested I can provide them with the part numbers etc to make their own. I will post some pics tonight. Thank You, Jason ------- Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:32:23 -0000 From: "dan pines" Subject: a novel solution to threading on the sherline lathe for those of you that do not follow the tips published on the sherline site i recommend looking at the newly published tip 38 http://www.sherline.com/tip38.htm i believe this is a refreshing improvement of the threading accessory, especially as it does away with motor removal and handcranking. it also incorporates a power feed. it is clearly for the more experienced users, not for a newbie. the usual disclaimer does not apply here: jim is a friend (and a customer). however, since there is no commercial aspect to his publication i felt it was ok to mention this new tip. i hope you will enjoy it. dan pines sherline distributor israel ------- Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:28:44 -0000 From: "dan pines" Subject: mounting a tool post on the compound slide since i am considering the use of the sherline lathe with risers installed permanently, i added 2 simple accessories, see photo section on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/i-s-u/ which still has enough photo space. the first is a tool rest for woodworking or for hand graving. i was lucky to have a rest from a woodworking lathe (relatively inexpensive part even if you buy it) and added a simple base. i believe the photo is self explanatory. the second is a marriage of a tool post on top of the compound slide. this is common on several small lathes as well as on larger ones. going this way removes the limitation of using only 1/4" tools on the compound slide and also allows the compound slide to be mounted permanently. i used a qctp so that i can change tools including a cutoff tool, a 3/8" round tool etc. the bottom of the holding plate has a channel milled into it, to take the long sherline tool post t-nut and keep it from turning. i went that way because i did not have a long enough 10-32 bolt to go thru the qctp and screw into the plate. this may be somewhat less rigid than the compound slide alone, but i did not notice any real difference when turning. note that the 2 arms of the plate block the access to the compound slide locking screws if you use a standard length allen key. i left it that way because shortening the arms would have meant using only 2 of the 4 tool locking screws on the top of the compound. i thought this is unacceptable. you can either cut an allen key short or else remove the plate, set the compound at an angle for taper turning and reassemble the plate. last but not least, with this configuration you can use the compound from the front, much more convenient. regards dan pines For Sherline Tools - Lathes & Mills www.geocities.com/danpines ------- Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:50:52 -0400 From: "Jerry Glickstein" Subject: Re: mounting a tool post on the compound slide Dan, you seem to have a lot of overhang with the plate that carries the QCTP. I wish I had a quarter for every Allen key I cut short during my active career as a toolmaker. :) I can't believe you saying you did not have a long enough 10-32 bolt. Make one! As far as using the compound from the front, see Sherline's machining tips #32. It shows my solution to have the toolbit right side up. Yes, it is for 1/4" toolbits but can be modified very simply to carry 5/16" or 3/8" toolbits as well. Also see www.shipmodelersdesktop.com Click on Special Tools. Click on page ten. Dig my toolbit adapter for the Compound slide. Regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 12:17:33 -0000 From: "dan pines" Subject: Re: mounting a tool post on the compound slide jerry, thanks for reading and commenting. yes, there is an sizeable overhang. i know it it may be harmful in extreme cases but i turned a couple of short aluminium rods without any problem. actually i started by drilling and threading the plate , made a 10-32 threaded rod, added a knurled head on top - as seen in the photo. then i thought "keep it simple stupid" , rebored the plate and used the sherline supplied bolt and t-nut. did not take an extra photo. imperial size allen keys are not that common in israel, where i live. i do not have a spare one so i did not want to cut the only one on hand. i am certainly familiar with your tip about using the compound from the front. however, the handwheel still gets in the way of the cross slide handwheel. i know it is easy enough to mill the tool holder part of the compound slide. i did not do it because once milled to say 3/8", using a 1/4" tool requires spacers/shims. much easier with a qctp so that height can be adjusted quickly. i will certainly look at your site. last but not least, i always enjoy reading your advice to group members and i envy your experience. i am a relatively new player (18 months) and i tend to re-invent wheels and make many mistakes. i enjoy it ! regards dan ------- Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:40:24 -0000 From: "Flosi Gudmundsson" Subject: Re: mounting a tool post on the compound slide Dan, the problem of obtaining imperial fasteners can be avoided by substituting with metric equivalent. 5mm cap screws ar almost the same as 10-32. The t-nuts fit if they are not very long. The allen keys are also wery similar in size. Flosi in Iceland ------- Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 19:46:08 -0400 From: "Jerry Glickstein" Subject: Re: Tail Stock [sherline group] >>I've had a few problems with the tail stock on the Sherline. I was wondering if anyone has built their own. Or knows of someone who has. I thought I would ask before I reinvented the wheel. Thanks Scott A. Stephens << Scott, what were your problems? I made an adjustable center for the tailstock. Regards, Jerry G ------- Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:03:50 -0700 From: "Scott A. Stephens" Subject: Re: Re: Tail Stock As I move it back and forth it changes. It always seems to be off slightly in Y+. I play with it and play with it and it is the cause of much grief. Especially when I start to do any type of drilling. If being slightly off center causes rubbing of the drill bit, hence more friction. I've played with an adjustable center, but I've been spoiled by the lathes at work. I would like to get it so that once it is properly set up, I do not have to worry about it. ------- Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 00:21:39 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Tail Stock Scott: How old is your lathe and tailstock?? I have had problems with some of the older tailstocks but not latest design. In fact repeatabilty of the new design is close to my jewelers lathe on both of my Sherlines. I am making the assumption everything is clean and free of chips or damage. If it locking screw is vertical you have the latest design. If it is horizontal you have the old style and I would suggest upgrading to the new style. If you have the new style and this problem I would suggest contacting Sherline for their suggestion. This is not a typical problem with this tailstock if it is clean and free of chips, and hasn`t been over-tightened to the point of causing damage. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:24:07 -0700 From: "Scott A. Stephens" Subject: Re: Re: Tail Stock I'll contact them, I have spoken to them about this before. But it is the one thing about the lathe that is driving me nuts. ------- Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:30:40 -0400 From: "George & Cathy Dunham" Subject: RE: Re: Tail Stock Hi All & Scott I encountered similar problems of my own with this. I chose to re-mill the rear dovetail to move the ram to the front and on an angle to remove the out of plane error as well. I took it very slow measured several times before cutting anything. Now I'm within .0002 in both planes and the ram is within .00015 parallel end to end fully extended. Moving it forward was a snap. Getting it parallel was another matter. I used feeler stock to offset the T.S. in an attempt to get it parallel. I checked the math 3 times but I found I used too little offset. Needed a hammer and rounded punch to "adjust". It came out OK but I doubt it will last as the anodizing is now gone. I have 2 spare T.S.'s and next time I'll approach it a bit differently. I intend to separate the ram tube from the base on both. Leaving extra in the 2 pieces I intend to use. Then mill a vertical flat in each so they will mate and bolt together (with shims if needed) to true up. I'm sure others will chime in. Maybe we'll even be treated to an elegant solution. Good luck! Regards George Dunham 719 Thompson Blvd Union, SC 29379-7406 (864) 429-4156 ------- Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 06:00:12 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: Tail Stock Scott, if you are interested, I built an alternative tailstock for my heavily modified 4400 lathe. There are a couple of photos of it in the "Photos" section in a folder bearing my name. Look in the subfolder "4400 Lathe). Regards, Jim ------- Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:45:04 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Tailstock details... For those who are interested, I uploaded some additional photos of my custom tailstock. Look in the Photos section in the folder bearing my name, and the subfolder "Tailstock Details". These photos should illustrate how it was constructed and also some of the "neat features" incorporated into it. For example, it can be offset fore and aft to facilitate turning tapers. It provides additional reach across the cross slide table. It can be "fine adjusted" laterally to dial in exact alignment with the headstock's center line (there isn't a provision for vertical alignment - it is as close to perfect as I can measure). It uses 1MT accessories instead of 0MT. The advantage of 1MT is that there are a lot more 1MT accessories on the market than 0MT. The live center shown in the photos is one of these. Make by Axminster in the UK, it comes with interchangeable points. Also, the live center has a nose threaded 3/4 x 16 tpi, which coincidentally matches the Sherline's spindle. As shown in one of the photos, this means that Sherline chucks can be mounted on the live center body allowing them to turn freely, thus permitting "turning between chucks". All in all, this custom tailstock offers significant additional function- ality over the stock tailstock. It is so useful, in fact, that I used it in an unfinished state for several months. It was just too useful for me to set it aside to finish the final details and make it "pretty". The tailstock makes use of a Taig tailstock casting, but those who are familiar with the Taig lathe will probably note that it has been customized as well. The particular customizations are unique, I believe, but they are similar to those done by many Taig users. The Taig casting sits on a custom blued steel dovetail block, which in turn is affixed to a cut down Sherline tailstock riser. I like the look and feel of brass knobs, dials, and handles so I used that material wherever I thought it would look good. Please keep in mind that there is only one "critical dimension" and that is centerline height. As designed, hitting that dimension spot on is the result of slow and careful machine and a whole lot of measuring with the height gage. Also, Please note that this project was not inexpensive since it made use of purchased components from several sources. I am very pleased with the results, but if I had realized up front how much I would end up investing in this project I may have thought twice about starting it. While I'm sure I could have relied less on purchased components, that would have also added greatly to the time required to put it together. On balance, now that it is all said and done, I'm pleased with the results and at this juncture the cost is no longer an issue. Regards, Jim Knighton ------- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:26:53 -0000 From: "vikebo" Subject: Re: longer leadscrew Roger Jonsson wrote: >>> Does anyone know if it is possible to buy a lead screw for the 2000 mill that is 10mm (3/8") longer or use a leadscrew from one of the lathes? I mainly use my 2000 CNC to mill holes in aluminium front plates, using 2.5 and 3mm bits. The only problem I am having is the 230mm X-limitation as I need 238mm (9+3/8") for most plates. <<< I have the 5410 mill and had a similar problem once. I removed the end stop screws under the milling table. This gave me a few extra mm of travel. Maybe this could help you too. Eivind ------- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:46:59 -0400 From: "Ron Ginger" Subject: Re: Disengage compound slide lead screw to make duplicator? I built a simple duplicator that is used freehand. . A template is mounted along the back edge of the main tool table. I made an aluminum block with a rebate along one edge and a couple thumbscrews to hold the template down, but keep it up off the table about 1/8" I make templates of brass, or aluminum, plastic, even wood for short runs. For cutting I made a simple aluminum cube, about 1" on a side. It has two holes drilled in it- one exactly on the lathe center height, the other exactly in line with the edge of the template. I made a cutting tool and template follower from 1/8" drill rod. Turn the end of each to a taper to a small point. I made one set with the ends of the taper squared off another with a small radius. The cutting tool is ground away on its top side to exactly one half- like a D bit. The tool and guide are held into the block with a set screw. Adjust the protrusion of each to be the same- set them against a square. In use you simply hold the cube down against the table and freehand slide it along the work. The guide is stopped by the edge of the template and sets the depth of cut. You can move the table in as usuall to get more cut depth. You can angle it into the work to the right or left- as long as the tool and the guide are cut to the same profile you can cut any shape the tool will get into- I use the round nose for most work, but use the square end for working up to a shoulder. Keep the overhang of the tool as short as possible so there is little tendency to tip the block over. Take light cuts. This works great for small parts like model boat cannon barrels or railing uprights, etc. I guess I should put some photos of it on my web page. ron ginger ------- Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 06:34:48 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Compound Slide with QCTP Hi All! For those who are interested, I've uploaded photos of a fully func- tional compound slide with QCTP mounted on my much modified Sherline 4400 lathe. Look in the folder bearing my name, and the "compound" subfolder. This project is relatively easy and straightforward, but it only works on lathes with risers installed. There isn't enough vertical space to do this on a standard lathe. The QCTP is from TS Engineering (sold by Little Machine Shop) and the compound slide is a modified Taig accessory. The adapter plate with the requisite Taig t-slot is shop made. The QCTP was modified to use a 5/16" x 18 tpi SHCS. Rene Teo mentioned a while back that his QCTP has no problems with twist or turning when a bolt this size is used to secure it. From all I can see to date, this is correct. I've had no problems in this regard. The Taig compound slide was modified by removing the t-slots (which aren't compatible with Sherline accessories, anyway). This was done to get the slide's deck height at an appropriate level for use with the QCTP. As built, the deck height is 1.050". This places the tool holders in the middle of the dovetail slides so that the locking piston bears on the middle of the holder. Please note that it is not necessary to remove the t-slots if this slide is built for a lathe using the standard 6" cross slide table. My lathe has the larger 8" table, which is .250" thicker, thus reducing the available vertical space. On "normal" lathes the Taig slide will work without modification, and the deck height will be only abt .020" higher than mine (assuming the same thickness adapter plate). The slide was further modified with the addition of the threaded hole for the 5/16" mounting bolt. The adapter plate is shop-built, and began life as a piece of .375" aluminum plate. I removed abt .050" from the bottom, machined the t-slot to match the Taig slide's locking mechanism, and added the mounting holes to match the Sherline's cross slide table. Regards, Jim Knighton ------- Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 16:53:03 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: Screwcutting Gearbox (Jim Knighton) "crackerfactory03" wrote:> Hello Jim, > I was looking at your QCTP adaptor for the TS toolpost > (very nice idea and execution) when I noticed your screwcutting > gearbox for the Sherline 4400. Wow! what a nifty creation! Have you > considered submitting this (and some of your other > Sherline "accessory" ideas) to HMS? Now that Rudy Kouhaupt is no > longer with us you could probably slip into his old "miniature > machining" spot. I don't want to sound like a Macheavellian > opportunist here, but his shoes need to be filled, and it looks like > they would fit you! Sincerely, Curtis Curtis, thanks for the kind words, and I am flattered beyond measure that you would mention me in the same breath as Rudy. Like many others, I will miss his articles and ideas. He was the inspiration behind many of my projects and he was amazingly prolific. There's no way that I'm in that league. My projects are specific to my own shop, and as you've no doubt observed, address what I percieve as weaknesses and shortcomings. Although I didn't know it when I first purchased a Sherline lathe, my dream machine is actually a Myford. When I look at my lathe, that is what I want to see sitting on the bench. I'm sure I'll never be able to afford one, but who knows. Maybe if I try hard enough I'll get my Sherline to be just as capable and refined. Of course, that will probably never happen, either. Regardless, the journey is it's own reward and it's fun seeing how the machine evolves over time. I don't consider the threading gearbox to be finished. It works well, but it isn't quite what I want it to be. I'm still tinkering with it. The basic approach seems sound, but some of the details still need refining. The new compound slide/QCTP is one of those details - with it I can orient my threading cutter perpendicular to the workpiece and then feed at 29.5 degrees, which seems to be optimal and recommended in most texts I've found. Again, thanks for the kind words. Regards, Jim ------- Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:01:40 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: More new photos... Over the last several months I've completed some additional projects that may be of general interest. For some reason, I neglected to post photos at the time. These are 1) replacing the Sherline motor and electronic controls on my already heavily modified 4400 lathe, and 2) conversion of another 4400 lathe into a dedicated woodturning lathe, albeit with some interesting features. These photos are in the folder bearing my name, in subfolders titled "Motor Replacement" and "4400 Woodturning Lathe". The motor replacement is self-expanatory, although the reasons behind it may not be. The result, however, is a much more powerful lathe capable of heavier cuts, more torque at lower speeds, and slower speed operation than is possible with the stock motor. The motor is a surplus treadmill motor from Pacific Scientific rated at 1.5 - 2 hp (their words, not mine). It is a 120vdc permanent magnet motor similar to Sherline's, only larger. It's rated speed range is from 0 to 4000 rpm, somewhat slower than the Sherline's top speed. Motor pulley is a modified Sherline item, thus keeping speed reduction ratios exactly as before. Max spindle speed with this setup is abt 2000 rpm. Since I rarely used max speed with the Sherline motor, this speed loss is insignificant while the torque gains at slower speed is very noticable. Please note that it is not possible to use this motor with the standard mounting bracket. The motor is physically larger and much heavier than the Sherline. In the photos you will see glimpses of the motor mount/tension adjustment arrangement, but since these have been in use for a long time I didn't take photos specifically of that aspect. If there is interest, I'll do so and upload them as well. It may not be for everyone, but for me this change has significantly changed the character of the lathe for the better. The "Model 4400 Woodturning Lathe" may seem overkill as well, but there are some interesting advantages that may not be readily apparent. Personally, I wish Sherline offered something like this from the factory. To make it a dedicated woodturning lathe, I removed the cross slide table, leadscrew, handwheels, etc. from a standard model 4400 lathe. I built my own tool rest system and mount. What resulted is a very capable woodturning lathe, and if you will excuse what might seem hyperbole, the best small woodturning machine I've ever had the pleasure to use. That shouldn't be surprising since the Sherline lathe is a good machine to start with. Of particular interest to me is that workholding devices and tailstock mounted accessories are interchangable between this and my other two Sherline lathes. This includes 3 and 4 jaw chucks, my ER20 and ER40 collet chucks, etc. This also includes live centers, jacobs chucks, etc. that go on the tailstock. One of the photos shows this lathe with my Nova woodturning chuck. Some of you may be familiar with this chuck as it is well known among woodturners. This chuck is usually found on larger machines and it may come as a surprise to discover that it can be used on the Sherline to great effect. I had to make a custom adapter to mount it, but make no mistake about it - it works as well on the Sherline as it does on any of the larger machines. You just can't do large diameter turnings due to the physical size limits imposed by the dimensions of the Sherline lathe. In any event, while this conversion is not for everyone, it is ideal in my shop. The lathe is large enough that I can do some serious woodturning, and compact enough that it can sit out of the way on a shelf when not in use. It's seen a lot of use over the last several months, and I am very pleased with it. Regards, Jim ------- From: "Jim Knighton" Date: Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:47 pm Subject: Re: threading attachment In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "mandcjames" wrote: > Has anyone thought about or tried to make their own threading > attachment for the sherline lathe. If so I would like to get some > info because I have acces to several production CNC mills and lathes > to assist in my making of my own threading attachment. This is not > because i dont want to spend the money on sherlines but I would like > to say I made it myself. Ive made my own threading attachment. I thought there were photos in the archive, but I can't find them. Send me an email and I'll get them to you. My threading attachment is rather different than Sherline's. Mine is more of a simple "quick change" gearbox that sits permanently on the lathe and operates under power being driven by the (reversible) main motor. This setup works quite well. I used the Sherline gears, for what it's worth, but that's all. To get the threading setup working the way I wanted I also replaced the motor (much more torque in the speed range best suited for threading) and fashioned a different compound slide (so I could set the angle to 29.5 degrees). With these mods I can thread under power in pretty much the same manner as you can with a full size machine. There are photos of these last two mods in the archive. An early version of the threading setup is visible in the motor photos, but this isn't the final arrangement. The final photos are the ones I'll send in response to your email. Regards, Jim ------- From: Dave Hylands Date: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:14 pm Subject: Mount for Sherline Vise on Metal Bandsaw [sherline] Hi everyone. Well, I finally got around to making a plate to mount my Sherline Vise on for my metal bandsaw. This is something I should have done a long time ago. http://www.DaveHylands.com/Machinist/Modifications/Metal-Bandsaw/ Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- From: Mark Zirinsky Date: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:17 pm Subject: 6 interesting lathe modications [sherline] Thought I'd put these up for the group to enjoy. Just acquired a pile of small sherline 4400 lathes, with interesting modifications: - entire unit may be run submerged - autoclaveable - driven by modified compressed air motor - a spindle bore coolant feed - quick release clamp for irregular shaped items - some cross slides modified to be spring loaded (so that cutting tool follows an irregular circumference) These were custom built (at huge expense) for the medical industry, thought you might be interested to see. See the "new arrivals" section of www.Pemed.Com I know that no one on the list will buy these, and I don't care. These are some interesting ideas that may be useful to someone solving a problem. enjoy Mark Zirinsky PEMED Denver ------- From: "Jim Knighton" Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 2:30 pm Subject: Re: Can I make my mill into a lathe? In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "simonwong7" wrote: > This may seem like a dumb question, but I was wondering what I would > need to make my 5400 mill into a lathe? I already have the horizontal > milling conversion so rotating it 90 degrees shouldn't be an issue? > Would a tool holder and a 2.5" 3 jaw chuck be enough? Thanks! You can "sorta,kinda" do it, but take care - that headstock on the z column isn't very rigid. Like you, I have a 5400 with the horizontal conversion and thought the same thing until I tried it one day. Chatter and vibration were very severe even though I was taking very light cuts. I don't recommend it at all. Also, depending on the orientation of the mill reletive to the x-y table there may not be much room for workpieces. In a pinch, you can do some pretty outrageous stuff. No doubt you are familiar with "Invention's" mother, "Neccessity"? Regardless, this isn't something I want to even think about on a regular basis. A better approach would be to buy a lathe without motor/headstock/etc. Swapping motors/headstock between machines isn't hard or time consuming and will give you a much more stable and rigid setup. Also, there was discussion recently about using a mill as a vertical lathe. This is a different animal altogether, and I've done this successfully on a slightly larger machine (a "small" Jet mill/drill). I see no reason it wouldn't be possible on a Sherline mill although I haven't tried it personally. Regards, Jim ------- From: "timgoldstein" Date: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:05 pm Subject: A2Z CNC introduces a Modular Z axis spacer set We have just released our modular Z axis spacer set. This is intended for the Sherline 5XXX series mills. It allows you to raise the Z column in 1.5" increments. The standard kit includes all the hardware and parts to get lifts of 1.5", 3", and 4.5". If you needed more lift for some reason you can add additional modules to go as high as you wish. Details on our site under products and on our e-commerce site. Tim A2Z CNC 1530 W Tufts Ave Unit B Englewood CO 80110 www.A2ZCNC.com P.S. Just like the single height one that Sherline offers. You unbolt your Z column from the base and insert these between the base of the mill and the aluminum block on the bottom of your Z axis. If you flip your mill over you will see that the Z column is held to the base by 2 1/2-20 cap screws. So while your Z movement is not increased it is moved further up away from the table. ------- From: "Shorty Leatherwood" Date: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:20 pm Subject: Spindle to Chuck adapters Well I was piddling in the shop this weekend and found one of my round-to-it's. I finally got around to making some more of the spindle to chuck adapters. I now have enough for all my chucks. I have one that fits the sherline 1/4 and 3/8 drill chuck and I now have one that fits the 1/2 drill chuck that I scavenged off an old drill. This was more an exercise in internal and external single point threading to help hone my rusty skills. I have uploaded some pictures in the photo section under the folder titled "Chuck Adapters" if anyone is interested in seeing them.. Yall have fun and I will keep looking for more of these round-to-it's. Shorty Making chips and things with chips in TN Http://webpages.charter.net/leatherwoodplayground ------- From: "Andrew Wells" Date: Fri Apr 21, 2006 Subject: 8-Way Mill Upgrade interferes with Z-axis Lead Screw [sherline] I've been gradually upgrading my Sherline mill, first to add CNC (using Sherline Stepper mounts). Now I've replaced the standard column with the 8-Way upgrade. When attaching the column bed to the rotatable column mount, the lead screw is now pressing against the back of the "turntable" so obviously this affects the movement of the saddle, particularly as it nears the bottom. What have I done wrong? It seems to me that if the turntable was up the other way (i.e. with the screw holes nearer the top edge rather than near the bottom edge, then the lead screw would be clear of the turntable. But this doesn't seem to be the "correct way" around. Did I get the mounting of the CNC Stepper Mount on top of the column wrong (i.e. so that the lead screw is proud of the "back side" of the column? I used the jigs provided by Sherline. Any suggestions welcome. rgds Andrew Wells Auckland, NZ ------- From: Peter Linss Date: Fri Apr 21, 2006 Subject: Re: 8-Way Mill Upgrade interferes with Z-axis Lead Screw Actually either way is "correct", it depends on if you want extra clearance or need to get the spindle close to the table. If you look further on in the instructions, on page 6 it talks about installing the saddle travel extension. In this section, item 3 talks about shortening your Z-axis leadscrew so that it clears the rotary turntable. The Model 2000 mills actually use shorter screws on the Z- axis so you'll need to shorten yours if you want to be able to use it in this configuration. Regards, Peter ------- From: "Andrew Wells" Date: Fri Apr 21, 2006 Subject: Re: 8-Way Mill Upgrade interferes with Z-axis Lead Screw Peter, thanks for the prompt reply. I'd read the Travel Extension bit, but hadn't related the two. There is obviously a compromise with this, because I already have height issues when using the Rotary table plus vise, and I have permanently mounted an extra worktable on top of the standard Sherline table. Now to work out how to cut the leadscrew. thanks again Andrew ------- From: "Pete Brown \(YahooGroups\)" Date: Fri Apr 21, 2006 Subject: RE: 8-Way Mill Upgrade interferes with Z-axis Lead Screw The instructions that came with my 8-way upgrade include information on cutting the Z axis screw down to accommodate the new neck. Excerpt: >> 3. Your existing leadscrew must be shortened so that it will clear the top of the rotary column attachment. (See Figure 8.) Leave your existing saddle nut in place on the leadscrew. (If upgrading to a new saddle nut and locking lever, install them at this time.) By leaving your saddle nut in place, you will not have to thread it onto the leadscrew over freshly cut threads. << More info: http://www.sherline.com/5650inst.pdf Pete Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis) http://www.irritatedVowel.com (wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr) ------- From: "Andrew Wells" Date: Fri Apr 21, 2006 Subject: Re: 8-Way Mill Upgrade interferes with Z-axis Lead Screw Pete, thanks for this. For the sake of expediency, so I could actually make something today, I've turned the turntable "up the other way", refitted the column and fitted the Travel Extension kit. Now everything works as advertised, although I am short on height above the table, but that doesn't matter for today's job. I'm tempted to leave it as it is, and just remove the Travel Extension on those occasions when I need the extra height. rgds Andrew ------- From: "Pete Brown \(YahooGroups\)" Date: Fri Apr 21, 2006 Subject: Re: 8-Way Mill Upgrade interferes with Z-axis Lead Screw I might have done the same. It has been a while, but I don't recall actually taking a hacksaw to the leadscrew. From the looks of the photo at the top of this page, I did as you did: http://www.irritatedvowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/TSEModularVise.aspx Pete ------- From: "David Wood" dave.woodx~xxcomcast.net Date: Fri May 19, 2006 12:33 pm Subject: Re: [sherline] wobble, wobble , here I come !!! [sherline] "kuboguy" wrote: > Someone on the list suggested that the cross slide be absolutely > square to the ways, but mine is slightly off. So how do I correct it ? > Also, I tried to align the spindle with and without the key. It's > really touchy. It is still off by a hair. Everytime I tighten the > screw to the spindle, it goes off a bit. Any suggestions ? Thanks. > Dave Dave: As the following messages in this thread show, aligning the headstock (and keeping it aligned) can be very tricky. I've attached a drawing and a photo of the solution that I worked out. With the headstock screw just barely tightened, use the two 10-32 screws to rotate the headstock around the axis of the headstock screw. If you use a DI bearing on the headstock itself, you can watch how much you've moved it. When you're satisfied with the alignment, tighten the screw; now that the headstock is pre-loaded, it must go where you've set it to go with the two adjusting screws. Be aware that, as one of the threads pointed out, you still may not have the centerline of the spigot perpendicular to the travel of the cross-slide. Also be aware that the Sherline is not a particularly sturdy machine (except for its size, that is) and will not stay in alignment past a heavy jolt, a dug-in tool, etc. I check my alignment about once a month, and it always seems to be out just a hair. But once you've used this method (which also works on the mill head, where it's almost impossible to hold the head in alignment against its weight), re-aligning it is simple and quick. Dave Wood ------- NOTE TO FILE: David Wood's above photo and drawing are now in the Yahoo Sherline group's Photos in the folder titled "Alignment widget". A brilliantly simple and very effective idea. Thanks. ------- Re: sherline motor issues [sherline] Posted by: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" jerry.jankurax~xxstratos.net Date: Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:39 am ((PST)) William Cox wrote: > What materials do you usually machine? Sherline sells a little silicone > rubber boot for the on-off switch; it's part 30150 ($8.50), and was > recommended for lathes/mills that machine brass or wood or other things > (?) that produce fine dust. It goes over the existing on/off switch. You might also try your local Radio Shack or other electronics supplier. A few years back, I was able to buy a pack (red & black) of covers for a couple of bucks. You remove the nut that holds the switch to the case and replace it with the "boot" which screws on. I'm not sure whether or not Radio Shack stocks these items any more, as they're moving to the more fashionable (and higher profit) big ticket electronics items. Jerry J. ------- Re: sherline motor issues Posted by: "Wayne Brandon" tiktokx~xxcox.net Date: Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:46 pm ((PST)) A word of caution -- Ain't hardly no such thing as standards no more. I bought a boot for a buck or two from an electronics supplier and the threads don't match the Sherline switch. I checked two different brands of switches I had bought from the same supplier and the threads are different. The boot fitted one but not the other. I have Sherline boots on my lathe and mill switches and consider them a must due to dust exposure. Wayne ------- Re: sherline motor issues Posted by: "Bad Brad" atkinonx~xxhotmail.com Date: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:03 am ((PST)) I have bought several of the switch "boots" over the years for my Sherline equipment from local hardware stores. You can take the nut with you to the store to verify that the "boot" will fit when you get home. FBA ------- Tips of my own... [sherline group, but would apply to Taig or other] Posted by: "cnc2x~xxdigitalfires.com" Date: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:05 pm ((PST)) Hi: One of my New Years resolutions is to share some of my own tips with folks. Finally I've got some of 'em up on my web site: http://www.digitalfires.com/sherlinetips.htm My apologies for the large pics. That's next on my list... :) Jeff ------- NOTE TO FILE: There are some mods to the Sherline mill that were discussed in the Sherline group in a thread titled "Minor mod, good result" starting Jan 25, 2007. The mods related to reducing backash on the mill, and getting easier access to the underside of the mill to make backlash adjustments. They were kept in the file here called "Sherline Mill Backlash" along with the rest of that conversation. The last thread became "More Mods" and is continued here. ------- Re: More mods [sherline group -- discussing a base for mill] Posted by: "Alan KM6VV" KM6VVx~xxSBCglobal.net km6vv Date: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:25 pm ((PST)) David Clark wrote: >Hi Alan, >Right, there's no plywood at all in this scheme. The mill is bolted to >the steel arms which rest on the workbench, via rubber bumpers at the >ends of the arms. >I considered all of the things you suggest; but my conclusion was that >a full plate of either plywood or metal just wasn't needed, since 90% >of this material would not be in the load path. >(To new hands: A useful approach to mechanical design is to analyze a >structure and consider how the loads and stresses flow. Then remove >every square millimeter of material that isn't actually reacting >anything.) >I'm considering something similar for the lathe, but that's a bit >different. Whereas the mill base is solid, the lathe base is cast and >hollow. I'm concerned that the lathe base might not be stiff enough >in torsion if not screwed to a solid platform. I'm thinking maybe >bolt it to a 4" X 24" plate to stiffen it, then attach steel arms to >that to stabilize it against tipping. >A minor downside of retirement is that I no longer have access to >Finite Element Analysis software. (Part of that $60K per seat CAD/CAM >package.) Oh well, I'll just have to bear it (g). DC Hi David, I agree that the base of the mill is fairly substantial. However my first impression (and also lacking a Finite Element Analysis package), is that the steel arms could allow the base to flex. Surely the rubber feet allow flex as well. While you have effectively doubled the base width (approximately), that was one of the things I wanted before I secured my mill to my slab of aluminum. I could cause the mill to tip if I had a well off-centered weight on the bed, or if I ran the X axis out to an extreme. The extra weight I have and extended base width are great. I no longer have that problem! I can still manually tip the mill and slab backwards to make cleanup easier, and sideways if I need to get to the setscrew. I'm also of the opinion that the extra mass helps to dampen vibrations. (Note: I'm not a ME). My lathe is mounted on a 16" x 25" piece of 1.5" plywood covered with Formica or something like that. It was surplus; made for a show presentation case. My mill got the Plexiglas box that fit it! I made up a new box for the lathe. I think there are pictures of both over on the SherlineCNC list. Alan KM6VV ------- Re: More mods Posted by: "Phil Mattison" mattison20x~xxcox.net Date: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:01 am ((PST)) David Clark wrote: > I'm considering something similar for the lathe, but that's a bit > different. Whereas the mill base is solid, the lathe base is cast and > hollow. I'm concerned that the lathe base might not be stiff enough > in torsion if not screwed to a solid platform. I'm thinking maybe > bolt it to a 4" X 24" plate to stiffen it, then attach steel arms to > that to stabilize it against tipping. I did that with my Sherline 4400 using 3/4" square aluminum tube. Never had any problem. I don't think the motor has enough torque to cause any significant deformation of the frame. I've stalled the motor several times without ever breaking anything, not even the cutting tool. These machines are a booger to store with so many parts sticking out everywhere. I ended up mounting the lathe in a custom box big enough to enclose the whole thing so I can stand it on end in the closet. For the mill I made an aluminum stand to raise it about 12" off the desk to allow clearance for a Z-axis counter weight. There is an article at: http://www.ohmikron.com/index.php?q=Q1BhZ2VNZ3J8Wl9BWElTX0JBTEFOQ0U= Phil Mattison http://www.ohmikron.com/ Motors::Drivers::Controllers::Software ------- Afterthought on previous discussion [sherline] Posted by: "David Clark" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:58 pm ((PST)) Hello group, I've had one of those "duh" moments that sometimes come to me in the small hours, a day after I think I've solved a problem. Here's the simple and obvious answer: The weakest element in the load path from the motor to the mounting holes in the base is certainly not the base. All the force that the motor can apply to the base, or anything else, first has to travel through the belt; then, through all the parts of the swing arm assembly, and the mill column, most of which is held together by clamping. Or, in the other direction, through the cutting tool, the work piece, and whatever is holding it to the mill table, the mill tables themselves, the lead screws and axis nuts. Any one of these elements would yield or break long before the base would break a sweat. All that supposing that the motor could possibly generate enough force to do it. So the whole notion of stiffening the base by bolting it to something seems pretty silly. Feeling pretty silly myself, DC ------- saddle movement on a 4400 lathe? [sherline] Posted by: "Roger Jonsson LINE AUDIO" rogerx~xxlineaudio.se Date: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:47 am ((PDT)) Hi, Question: What is the max saddle movement of the 4400 lathe? I am in need of milling and engraving 19" x 1 3/4" aluminium panels using 3mm endmill, and is currently doing this on the Sherline 2000 CNC mill, which means that i have to release and move the panel three times in order to mill the whole plate. I have an idea of rebuilding, or using parts from a 4400 lathe to make a mill that can mill the full plate in one go. (longer X-axis movement capabillity.) So I am hoping that the max X travel on the 4400 Lathe is around 17.5" (19" would be even better), with the headstock and tailstock removed (if that helps). Does the leadscrew limit the max movements? I would be very thankful if anyone could measure this on their lathe and report back! All the best, Roger Jönsson ------- Re: Saddle movement on a 4400 lathe? Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:22 am ((PDT)) Roger: Rather than go through all of that work I would suggest you contact Sherline to see if they would run you off a long mill bed and leadscrew. They are good at doing this sort of thing or at least they have been in the past. It may even be less expensive than you think or even the solution you are thinking of. Jerry Kieffer ------- Cheap Caliper DRO's .... a process pt1 [sherline] Posted by: "BH" bradellsx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Apr 7, 2007 7:28 am ((PDT)) Well, I guess it's time to give a little back then. NOTE: I havn't completed this, this is just what I'm 95% sure on planning on doing (well, I've hacked one apart to do some testing, and for use for the cross-slide) I bought a few (assuming) chinese 6" digital calipers on sale from Princess Auto for $18 each. They're the same ones found at Canadian Tire, but not the same from Lee Valley (the only other ones I can directly compare to). So after ALOT of humming and hawing, I've decided on where they should go on my lathe/mill (4400 with a milling column). For the Carriage, I originally wanted to mount it on the user side of the ways, but then you can't get a full cross slide movement out of it, as well as snugging up the tail stock, due to all the pieces being in the way, so it is going to be moved to the rear, and tilted on a ~30 degree angle. At the headstock, I plan on making a block to hold a 1/2" or so drill rod holder, that will allow the scale to be moved around the table. I don't really plan on using this too much, as the carriage rarely moves more than 6" towards the tailstock, unless I'm too lazy to find a small 5/16" allen key (I use a long T handle), but you can have the carriage move around the bed of the lathe, referenced for 6 inches(*1). For the Cross-Slide, this one was a little tricky to figure out; originally, I was thinking on the headstock side of the table, with the display at the user side. In that configuration, ideally the display would be used with the scale flipped around. After tearing one completely apart, and adapting it so you could flip it around, there was very little consistency before the first 4" of travel ('zero' jumps to .200 or .400"), and every once in a while, around the first 2" of travel. While the cross slide moves around 3" ... I don't want it to mess up! So time to think about it again .... mounting it on the tail stock end of the table, again with it mounted towards the user .... but then the tail stock won't get far enough over to be useful if you have a setup between centers! But, if you put the display off the end of the bed, there is enough reach from the tail stock to do that; and conveniently, if you mount the scale to the carriage, you can mount the readout to the underside of the bed. Simple as that! An added bonus for putting the readouts at the back of the machine, aside from keeping most of the travel of the machine, is that the readouts + and - are the same as the tool travel (in lathe operation); in milling, it's completely backwards ... which is fine for my uses, as it's all absolute movements to me. (*1) 6 inches ... actually, the Caliper will read (going from memory, will confirm later with the update) up to around 8" accurately, before it starts going nuts. Brad H ------- Re: Cheap Caliper DRO's .... a process pt1 Posted by: "Jim Ash" ashcanx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Apr 7, 2007 10:06 am ((PDT)) There's a kit-built DRO system that uses these chinese scales as input, and a yahoo group for it. You could use Brad's suggestions for mounting and interface directly to the DRO box. If you can do some elecronics assembly, you can put together a very professional-looking (and operating) DRO for not a whole lot of money. Surf the web for Shumatech. Jim Ash ------- NOTE TO FILE: A discussion of benchtop design for multiple bench tools came up in the Sherline group on April 13, 2007, but many of the ideas and health precautions are applicable to other small metalworking or woodworking tools. Some good and innovative tips. The discussion is in the file here called Workshop Tips for everyone to find. ------- belt guard [sherline] Posted by: "Dan" danatlx~xxyahoo.com danatl Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:21 am ((PDT)) Folks: After a new near misses........ watching the cutting tool and attempting to rest my hand on the box with the on off switch..... I added a belt guard. It is one inch wide and curls around the pulley. Works fine for me. More than once, I have felt my hand touching the belt guard when I thought I was reaching the on off switch. ------- Re: belt guard Posted by: "David Clark" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:02 pm ((PDT)) Hello Dan, I was just looking again at your photos. How did you form the piece? Did you by any chance make a small slip roller? That's a project I've long considered (along with a small bending brake) and would welcome suggestions. I've seen the ones offered by Micro-Mark and could pretty easily reverse engineer them from the photos. Would like to see what others have done though. best, DC ------- Re: belt guard Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:42 pm ((PDT)) DC, Just formed it by hand. Took about 10 mins while watching TV. Nothing dramatic. Don't even recall what I was watching on TV. Dan ------- [sherline] NEED ADVICE: 8-way upgrade or Horizontal Milling Option or 15" Z axi Posted by: "jsansoterra" jsansoterrax~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:01 am ((PDT)) I have a Sherline 5400 mill and with the milling vise mounted I never seem to have enough room in the Z axis. I noticed that Sherline now offers a 15" Z axis upgrade but I also thought about purchasing the horizontal milling option to, basically, rotate the column 90 degrees for the additional space. I also noticed that there is an upgrade to the 8-way which would also let me rotate the column 90 degrees PLUS gain some additional functionality. I realize that moving to the 8-way means additional re-alignment. Does anyone have any advice/opinion on which way to go? Thanks! Jeff ------- Re: NEED ADVICE: 8-way upgrade or Horizontal Milling Option or 15" Z Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:38 am ((PDT)) Hi Jeff: The answer to your questions relies upon your application. What, exactly do you want/need to do? I have the 5000 mill and the 2000 ( 8 way mill). So, I can advise you once you tell me what your work envelope (cubic inches) consists of..... Regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: NEED ADVICE: 8-way upgrade or Horizontal Milling Option or 15" Z Posted by: "David Clark" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:52 am ((PDT)) Hello Jeff: Have you considered the column spacer block? http://www.sherline.com/1300pg.htm This would be an easy thing to make in whatever thickness you needed. The Horizontal Milling Conversion: http://www.sherline.com/6100inst.htm seems to me also easy to make. A 12" x 12" x 3/4" piece of MIC6 tooling plate is $72 from http://www.mcmaster.com/ vs $130 for the finished kit from Sherline. Note that Sherline recommends you shorten the column base by 2" when using this accessory. You'd have to put that back with a spacer whenever you switched back to the vertical configuration. An advantage of making your own is that you'll have a good deal of material left over. The base wouldn't even have to be a full square, could be L shaped. Among other things, the leftover plate could be used to make spacer blocks. I don't think I'd go for the 8 axis conversion at $265 unless I was pretty sure I had an ongoing need to drill or mill other than normal to the table. Even then, fixturing the work at an angle is usually easier. The Tilting Angle Table (pn 3750) and the Rotary Table (pn 3700)provide, in my view, more utility for the money. The 8 axis mill does provide for a deeper throat, accommodating larger work pieces, but this could also be achieved with spacers. All of these suggestions assume you have a vertical band saw to cut the plate. If you don't, I advise you to save the money you'd spend on the Sherline parts and buy one. Let us know what you decide and how it works out for you. I've considered making something like the Horizontal Milling Conversion myself, even though I have a 2000, just to get more flexibility. Best regards, DC ------- Re: NEED ADVICE: 8-way upgrade or Horizontal Milling Option or 15" Z Posted by: "jsansoterra" jsansoterrax~xxyahoo.com jsansoterra Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:26 pm ((PDT)) Hello Jerry. I'm relatively new to machining so please excuse my lack of knowledge. My only training has been metal shop in highschool and a few books/DVDs I purchased from Sherline. I purchased the Sherline mill and lathe to produce some small aluminum parts for model aircraft. Most of these parts are 'one-off' for a particular build/design I'm workng on. I also purchsed an end-mill set and a 'a machine size' HSS drill set. I mount the vise to the table and the stock in the vise, maybe even on parallels. With the cutting tool in the end-mill holder or drill chuck I can't seem to get enough clearance to work on parts more than a few inches tall. Some of the parts I'm trying to make are in the 3-4" range. Thanks for the help! ------- Re: NEED ADVICE: 8-way upgrade or Horizontal Milling Option or 15" Z Posted by: "Greg Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz kwstse Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:34 pm ((PDT)) Three possible work-arounds: - mount your drills in collets so that they don't extend so far from the spindle. This will also improve accuracy. - add an extra spacer to the column to gain more height. - swing the milling head to horizontal and gain all the X movement distance in which to drill. Greg P. ------- Re: NEED ADVICE: 8-way upgrade or Horizontal Milling Option or 15" Z Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxadelphia.net Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:31 pm ((PDT)) Jeff: You don't need the horizontal milling option to do horizontal milling. The standard mill will allow you to rotate the head 90 degrees and do horizontal milling. the option would allow you to lower the spindle down to (or nearly to) the table while in a horizontal position. Instead of that, if you get either a right angle block or the adjustable angle plate you can clamp your work to that, rotate the head 90 degrees, and mill from the side. You will need to raise your work up enough that the tool can reach. Read up on the adjustable angle plate, look at its dimensions, and see if it would allow you to do the work you want. If so, it will also provide you with the capability to angle mill and drill at arbitrary angles. Alan ------- Re: NEED ADVICE: 8-way upgrade or Horizontal Milling Option or 15" Posted by: "David Wood" dave.woodx~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 4:11 pm ((PDT)) Add this to Greg's workarounds: Use "stub" length drill bits. I got this advice directly from Joe Martin. Not only did it increase the work envelope (secondary for me), but he also told me to use collets whereever I could; the combination collets and stub bits has given me a significant increase in accuracy. Dave Wood ------- Re: NEED ADVICE: 8-way upgrade or Horizontal Milling Option or 15" Z Posted by: "Chuck McManis" cmcmanisx~xxmcmanis.com chuck_mcmanis Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 9:09 pm ((PDT)) > I have a Sherline 5400 mill and with the milling vise mounted I never > seem to have enough room in the Z axis. I'm going to suggest that you figure out how to do the horizontal milling. The reason is that even with the extended Z axis you will find that the vice/work can run into the bottom of the Z axis before you've got enough "reach" to get to where you need to go. Think of the working areas as an envelope, on an unmodified Sherline it's about 8" x 6" x 6" (8 being the X direction). So if your piece is 2 x 2 x 6 tall the only way to fit it into that envelope is to turn it on its side. This gives you a lot more room in the new "Z" range but reduces X & Y. Chuck ------- My new Sherline 2000 Ultra Sub-Base [sherline] Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 4:09 pm ((PDT)) I spend most of my time over at the Sherline CNC forum but thought this might interest some of you here too. I've been working on some rather large gears for a clock project. At first, I expected to have to get 3 of the gears cut at the local waterjet shop due to their large diameter. Then I got the A2ZCNC extended X and Y axes and that just about solved the problem. In cutting the final gear, I figured that I'd be just about at the limits of the new Y axis. The problem is that the larger the workpiece, the sooner it bumps into the mill column. I didn't really need a longer base, I just needed to move the column and get more use of the potential travel the new Y axis already had. I scored a piece of 1" steel plate about 12"x24" and had the waterjet shop cut that for me and made a new sub-base and relocated the mill column back about 3 inches or so. I have a bit of work yet to tidy up and build a big coolant/chip tray for it yet. But, here's the result of the effort so far: http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/sherlinebase/sherlinebase.htm ------- Re: My new Sherline 2000 Ultra Sub-Base Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT)) David: What size Clock Wheels are you trying to Cut ??? A standard 5400 mill will cut Clock wheels as large as 10" in diameter or even a little larger without any modifications. Larger than that of course would be better cut on larger equipment. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: My new Sherline 2000 Ultra Sub-Base Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca4 Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 5:26 pm ((PDT)) The largest is about 9" but not suitable for using a rotary table (if that's what you have in mind.) Here's my never ending clock project. http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/garysclock/garysclock.htm ------- Re: My new Sherline 2000 Ultra Sub-Base Posted by: "David Clark" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 6:45 pm ((PDT)) > The largest is about 9" but not suitable for using a rotary table (if > that's what you have in mind.) Why not? Anything that has rotational symmetry can be made with the help of an RT. For the gear tooth forms you're making, I would write a program to bring the end mill in tangent to the blank, cut a single tooth just as you now do, exit tangentially, lift the cutter and return to the start point, index the RT, repeat. Congratulations on some beautiful work, and kudos to Gary Mahony for his designs and especially for sharing them. DC ------- Re: My new Sherline 2000 Ultra Sub-Base Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 7:57 pm ((PDT)) "Why not" probably has a couple of answers. 1) This was a more interesting challenge for me. 2) I haven't set my system up for a CNC rotary table. 3) I never thought about the programming you mention. 4) I'm not sure I'd know where to start with the programming you mention. 5) The time to cut the gear with my new setup is probably a fair bit quicker than the method you mention (my guess). 6) Zero learning curve with the extra capacity vs rotary table. ( I'll save the RT for a cold, lonely winter evening/weekend). ------- Re: My new Sherline 2000 Ultra Sub-Base Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 9:33 pm ((PDT)) David: A clock movement must have the power through the wheels/train to create a sharp snap when the pallet releases the escape tooth. This sharp movement is required to give a push on the opposite pallet to create/ maintain movement in the Pendulum. This requires a wheel train with very low friction if the movement is to function properly. The only way to create very low friction wheel trains is to insure that all wheel teeth are equally spaced and each tooth form is identical etc. For these reasons I only use manual or CNC Rotary table and tooth profile cutters when cutting Watch/Clock wheels/pinions. In addition because of the one off per size of wheel, I think you would find the rotary table to be the simplest, fastest most accurate way of cutting functional wheels/pinions. The method I use for large tooth wheels such as this follows. First the blank is cut and mounted to the Rotary table in a 5400 mill (if it's 10" diameter or smaller since no modifications are required). Since the teeth in this case are large they would be cut in two passes. The first pass would be with a round bottom End mill (IF round bottom tooth) or standard Endmill (IF flat bottom tooth) to remove most of the material between the teeth. For the second pass I machine and harden a single point cutter to finish forming each tooth. This process assures that the Wheel is round and running true with equally spaced teeth that have identical tooth forms on each tooth. This also allows for the critical proper depthing of the full circumference of each wheel/pinion. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: My new Sherline 2000 Ultra Sub-Base Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:51 pm ((PDT)) Jerry, this is really going to take a bit of time to get my mind wrapped around this one. In the mean time, would you have a closer look at the gears I've cut already. The only big one left to cut is one of the large brass ones which will be similar to the ones in the web link below. To my way of thinking, because the teeth are asymetrical, the rotary table wouldn't be my best solution. But, I'm here to learn so...I'm all ears (or would that be "eyes") http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/garysclock/garysclock.htm Thanks for all of your input and the time you took to explain. David Morrow ------- Re: My new Sherline 2000 Ultra Sub-Base Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 8:57 pm ((PDT)) David: I looked at your wheels before commenting on the use of a rotary table and form cutters. I only commented based on your statement that you did not believe the Rotary Table would work to cut these wheels. While this is the way I have done this type work, it is of course not the only method of doing it. If you have now perfected a method of making accurate wheels/tooth forms, then I would not change if you only have one last wheel to cut. I would need to see wheel and tooth form specifications to comment further on the methods/setups I would personally use. As I have said in the past its not how you get the job done but the fact that you get it done. Jerry Kieffer ------- NOTE TO FILE: Yes, the following message thread on Sherline metal threads is not really about mods, but they are talking about both lathe and mill parts; this file is shared by both types of machine. I suppose you could regard the subject as appropriate to mods if you are looking to replace or modify a threaded part ;-) ------- Re: Sherline threads [sherline] Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxadelphia.net Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 11:59 am ((PDT)) "andax_1" wrote: > I try to summarize which threads are used where and with what tool on > the sherline mills/lathes. > Such as that the external thread on the headstock is 3/4-16 NF... > What about drawbars, adapter for jacobs chucks (both the large and > small) etc. (please add to the list) > Please help me brainstorm and collect this information both for the > machines but also for the accessories. Best regards, Andreas Andreas: The milling collet drawbar is 5/16-24 x 4-1/2". The other tool arbor drawbars all seem to be 1/4"-20 x 5-1/4". In addition, each drawbar comes with a machined washer with the hole either 5/16 + or 1/4 + to allow the bolt through. The outer diameter of each washer is rebated so that the rebate just fits in the inside of the spindle while the larger part is the same diameter as the outside of the spindle. Obviously in both cases at the back or rear end of the spindle. Recent drawbars come with a piece of Scotch Tape to keep the washer on. A better (more professional looking) way is to use a small o-ring to serve as a retainer. In either case, the drawbars are standard USA bolt sizes commonly available in many hardware stores. In fact, Sherline recommends that if you need a replacement for one of these bolts you should buy from a local hardware store which will probably be cheaper. As to the washer, they are no big deal to turn out on the lathe if you need a new one. Alan ------- Fw: [sherline] Sherline threads / As Promised Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT)) Hi Andreas, here is what I found. You were interested in Sherline threads. On the mill 2000; A 11/16" open end wrench is used to open and close the nut for the ram. For the front to back tilt, the same open end wrench for the nut (on the right side) and a 1/4" Allen wrench. The lead screws. X = 1/4"-20 left Hand Thread Y = 1/4"-20 Left Hand Thread Z = 3/8"-20 Left Hand Thread Spindle Nose is 3/4"-16 Right Hand Thread Draw Bars: For all adapters except collets: 1/4"-20 Right Hand Thread For milling collets: 5/16"-24 Right Hand Thread All other screws have been standardized at 10-32 Right Hand Thread. 5000 mill: Same lead screws, etc. 4000-4400 Lathes: Lead screws same as the mills. Steady Rest P/N 1074: 10-32 screws. (requires 5/32" Allen Wrench) Tool posts: 10-32 throughout. Rotary Table: Central Bore of 7/16" 3/8"-16 Right Hand Thread Adapter for Chuck, etc.: 3/4"-16 Male Right Hand Thread 3/8"-16 Male Right Hand Thread Drill Chucks: 3/8"-24 Female Right Hand thread Drill Chuck Adapters: All 3/8"-24 Male Right Hand Thread Collets: Mill Drawbar: 5/16"-24 Female Right Hand Thread Lathe Collets: .278" (by direct mike reading) so, 9/32"-40 (or 7.061mm?) Drawbar: 9/32"-40 Female Right Hand Thread. That is about it. If I missed anything, please let me know.... I am not allowed any sharp instruments here :) Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Fw: [sherline] Sherline threads / As Promised Posted by: "Greg Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT)) Bother! - I just ordered a milling collet and assumed/hoped the drawbars I have for the Jacobs chuck and/or fly cutter would fit it! Of course US sized bolts are only special order around here as we moved out of the archaic era 30 odd years ago. You missed the gib adjustment screws! Regards, Greg.P. ------- Re: Fw: [sherline] Sherline threads / As Promised Posted by: "Paul W. Chamberlain" pwcx~xxcapcocons.com Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 5:57 pm ((PDT)) Jerry G wrote: >What gib adjustment screws? >Do you mean the set screw that locks the " L" bar? >Jerry G (Glickstein) I know that one... it's a 10-32 screw. Joe Martin must have a Brother-in-Law with a 10-32 screw business. He certainly didn't learn fastener sizing at a firearms factory! ;o) Paul, Central OR ------- Re: Fw: [sherline] Sherline threads / As Promised Posted by: "Jerry G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 7:08 pm ((PDT)) Greg Procter wrote: > Jerry, Huh? My Aussie Sherline lathe has three allen head grub screws > that one turns to adjust the gibs. What "L" bar? Greg.P. Well, Greg, Sir! We are on a different page/machine! I didn't include the 3 grub screws because they don't exist on the Sherline 4000/4400 lathes. Later, Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Fw: [sherline] Sherline threads / As Promised Posted by: "Alan Haisley" alanhyx~xxadelphia.net Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT)) Greg: Take the next larger metric bolt, turn it down to about 7.93 mm, and put the appropriate imperial thread on it, using the collet as a gauge. The Sherline draw bolts are common bolts, not the hardened ones. It won't matter that the thing ends up with a metric head on it. That's got to be cheaper than doing a special order. Alan p.s. The truly archaic measure is those darn fractions. Any system is much better if it uses decimals. I'd bet that if you had to deal with things like 4 2/3 cm it would bother you just as much as 5/16 inch does me. Of course things like imperial drill sizes will always be a pain, not to mention sheet metal gauge, wire gauge, etc. Letters for drill sizes? What moron came up with that idea? ------- Re: Fw: [sherline] Sherline threads / As Promised Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 7:39 pm ((PDT)) Greg: I have two suggestions if you're having problems. First the next time you order from sherline request a package of assorted commonly used screws. They are good about this sort of thing. If you wish to use Metric on your mill collets, simply re-thread the Collet to 8mm x 1.00 fine thread. The collets are not hardened and the thread is very close so running a tap through will be all that is required. All thread sizes are covered in the "Assembly and Instruction Guide" that comes with each machine. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Sherline or Taig [sherline] Posted by: "Fred Smith" imservx~xximsrv.com Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:12 am ((PDT)) "aztaig" wrote: > I was wondering what the wear characteristics of the Sherline mill is along the X and Y axiz. I recall when I was in high school there was a Sherline mill in the shop. From what I remember the x and y axis run aluminium on aluminium. Doesn't seem to be as durable as the Taig with steel ways. < Double check your assumption about the Taig slide materials. I don't believe that the Taig has steel for all mating surfaces on both X and Y. The exploded parts list on their web site mentions extrusions and castings for the Y axis and Saddle. A more interesting question might be how well the table and saddle made from different materials hold up compared to the Sherline hard anodized aluminum surfaces. I think that both machines have demonstrated that they are well suited for hobby machinists. I recommend that when cutting steel or any abrasive materials with either machine, that you use protective way covers for the Y axis. This is particularly needed with CNC as you can make a lot of chips in short order. Fred Smith - IMService http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/hobby ------- CNC Lathe backward stepper mount Posted by: "Geert De Pecker" geert.de.peckerx~xxskynet.be Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:13 am ((PDT)) Hi all: Had the CNC kit for the sherline lathe lying on the shelf since 2004 and finally decided to install the steppers on the lathe. It would however be nice if I could mount the steppers on the back of the crosslide as this would be less bulky on the front and possibly handier when doing some manual quick job turning. Has anybody done this yet? Regards, Geert ------- Re: CNC Lathe backward stepper mount Posted by: "dan pines" danx~xxpines.co.il Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:43 am ((PDT)) Geert: Yes, I did that a few years ago when I upgraded a manual sherline to cnc using bits and pieces from old printers and fax machines. There are still a few photos in the photo section folder Dan Pines in the sherlinecnc group. I believe there is also one low quality photo in folder Dan Pines on this group. As you will see, the stepper was mounted on the cross table and was hooked to the feedscrew using a belt and pulleys. Not elegant but it worked ok. Later on I ordered a cnc ready lathe from Sherline and sold the old one. As long as you do not place the lathe on the edge of the table there is no problem with the Sherline system. If you do, you will eventually bump into the stepper overhanging the edge of the work table. regards Dan [and in a later message from Dan] The Sherline stepper mount can be attached at the back of the table but once you do that: 1. table will be limited in total length of move; 2. no way to remove the table without first removing the stepper and the mount. It is different on the mill, no extra limitations there. ------- Leadscrew cover for your Sherline mill [sherline] Posted by: "iworkz_innovations" chuck.yeox~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:12 am ((PDT)) Hi, I've made a video about making a leadscrew cover for your Sherline mill. You can see it at www.ixen-cnc.com. Hope you'll find it useful. [Note: above site also has a text version and templates for the parts.] ------- Re: Leadscrew cover for your Sherline mill Posted by: "mr_mike_lucek" mlucekx~xxmindspring.com Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:42 am ((PDT)) Agree with the others - Wow !! Well done video and very useful - I've been looking for a simple lead-screw cover for a while now - I even bought some fan-folded thin rubber covering already - can now use your pattern to make the mounting brackets ! Mike ------- Re: Leadscrew cover for your Sherline mill Posted by: "mr_mike_lucek" mlucekx~xxmindspring.com Date: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:54 am ((PDT)) > Where did you get the fan-folded rubber? Jim, I bought it from www.littlemachineshop.com a couple of years ago. I can't find it on their website. Give them a call at (800) 981-9663. Ask them about the fan-fold rubber - can be used as ways cover. Mike ------- Power Feed [sherline] Posted by: "Ron Ginger" rongingerx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:37 am ((PST)) > The reversible drive motor is my Black and Decker battery powered > screwdriver. The RPM is fixed ( around 180 RPM), but now that I > have used it to drive the RT, I'll be looking for variable speed units! > Comments? Questions? Jerry G (Glickstein) I did this years ago, and it was discussed here. But to drive the wheels my solution is to simply drill and tap a 10-32 hole into the center of the handwheel and loctite into it an allen cap screw. For the cost of a few cap screws and one electric screwdriver you have smooth power feed on all 3 axis, also on the lathe and rotary table. ron ginger ------- Fitting a milling column to a 2000 base. [sherline] Posted by: "Greg Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz Date: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:36 pm ((PST)) Hi all, Having upgraded my 2000 mill to an A2ZCNC large base I'm now wondering about uses for the original 2000 base. (as5610) :-) A 2000 column (3585) would be quick but it's considerably more expensive than the 5400 type. (5411) There's also the 3053 column which fits on the 4400 Lathe. The 2000 base has a round mount for the column whereas the 5400 type has the rectangular mount. I guess I can mill and drill the 2000 base to accept the 3053 column, but is there a simpler way I've overlooked? Once I buy a lathe I'll have an additional head so mill #2 won't be a huge outlay. Greg.P. (need more machines) ------- Re: Fitting a milling column to a 2000 base. Posted by: "Kevin Martin" kpmartinx~xxthinkage.ca Date: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:54 pm ((PST)) I've mounted a 5400 column on a 2000 base, but mostly because I kept running into creep problems in the joints in the 2000 column. I now only use the 2000 column when I need the extra reach or degrees of setup freedom. I found that the round profile cut into the back end of the Y ways to accept the 2000 column would not allow the 5400 column to fit in its proper location, so I made a rather wild setup: Essentially I clamped the column to the mill table facing backwards, and used an endmill to square up the back end of the Y ways so the rectangular 5400 column would fit. I have photos of the setup somewhere if I can find them. I also drilled the two new mounting holes required, since the 2000 column uses two side-by-side holes while the 5400 uses two holes lined up front-to-back (although the hole spacing is the same). Rather than counterboring the holes on the underside, I just have a hole in my tabletop, so it doesn't matter that the screw heads stick out a bit. The screws, of course, had to be a bit longer than the standard column mounting screws. As I recall, before doing this I had to start into my "swiss cheese" column base modification. Essentially this consists of adding more tapped holes to the column base to provide several extra mounting orientations. More specifically, the face of the column base now has three 1/4-20 tapped holes to allow it to be mounted at two locations on the 2000 column-mount holes, with what would normally be the top of the column base pointed left or right, and the front of the column base facing down. The bottom of the column base has four 10-32 holes to allow attaching the actual column to that surface, and both sides of the column base have a grid of 10-32 holes so the column can be attached there at several locations. This allows me to displace the column to either side of the Y ways in several positions. For the above mill base modification, I attached the mill column to the 4 new holes in the bottom of the column base, and clamped the column base "front" down, "top" facing me, to the mill table. Kevin Martin ------- Re: Fitting a milling column to a 2000 base. Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:17 pm ((PST)) I made my big mega base under my A2ZCNC extended base and used some 80/20 extrusions for the column in place of the Sherline column. That may give you some idea's. So far, I'm really happy with the result. http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/sherlinebase/sherlinebase.htm ------- Re: Fitting a milling column to a 2000 base. Posted by: "Greg Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz Date: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:24 pm ((PST)) Hi Kevin, I started reading and then my brain stopped working! I can't get my head around mounting the column backwards to square up the base - I'm sure it will be obvious when I actually buy a column. You drilled the new holes in the column rather than in the base? I presumed it would be easier to drill new holes into the base? I'll have to think through the rest when my brain unsogs! Regards, Greg.P. ------- Re: Fitting a milling column to a 2000 base. Posted by: "Kevin Martin" kpmartinx~xxthinkage.ca Date: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:16 pm ((PST)) I found and posted my photos, in the photos section, folder Kevin Martin>5400 column on 2000 mill Don't forget to distinguish the "column" (or "column bed") which is the steel ways the head runs on, from the "column base" which is the anodized aluminum block with the chopped-off corner that the column attaches to and that is in turn mounted on the mill base. The second photo shows the setup, with the mill ready to mill itself, and the third and fourth photos show the milled area and drilling the new mounting holes. The first photo shows the drilling of the additional holes in the column base to allow the column to be attached to the column base's foot. All these extra holes in the column base are just general purpose (my "swiss cheese column base" as I call it), and not related to the project of mounting the rectangular column base on the 2000 mill. So not only is the mill being used to mill itself, but the setup to do this is using the very part which the project is building a mating surface for! Kevin Martin ------- Re: Miniature Taps / Sherline Threading Attachment [sherline] Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:33 pm ((PST)) Bob & Vince: Thank you for the kind words. Personally I prefer to remove the motor on the Sherline Lathe for threading. It only takes a couple of minutes and increases the feel of threading when not also driving the motor with the crank. I also don`t like the threading assembly in place when not in use. But that is of course as mentioned my personal feeling. If you wish to leave the motor in place when using the threading attachment it is quite simple modification. First the threading train will assemble in front of the spindle shaft leaving only the drive handle that will not fit without hitting the Motor. This is a simple fix. If you purchase a MB-360 belt to replace the stock MB-330 belt it will add about .500" of space for the handle to be easily installed. The additional belt length will require .500" spacers or spacer plate between the head and motor bracket. This will allow you to tighten the new longer belt. A substitute belt if the MB-360 is not available from a local supplier would be a standard Gates 2L-0140. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Tailstock -- Why not MT1? [sherline] Posted by: "wpoplin_2000" wpx~xxwpoplin.com Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 4:06 pm ((PST)) Vince, I added a photo album entitled "Woody-LatheMods". It is on the last page of the albums. You will have to pardon the mess around the lathe, but I think you can see the quill details. I used 303 stainless, but any steel you care to machine will work fine. Woody ------- Re: 12L14 Steel -- was Horizontal Milling Conversion [sherline] Posted by: "Tom Bank" trbankx~xxpaonline.com eimcr Date: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:48 pm ((PST)) "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net wrote: >> Hello Group: Recently, and from time to time in the past, we've discussed various schemes to configure a Sherline as a horizontal mill. I've posted a series of photos illustrating my implementation. Please see: http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/photos/browse/d71e The photos should be fairly self explanatory, but I'll furnish details on request. Materials are 3/4" square 12L14 steel and 5/16" 7075 Aluminum plate. As always, I appreciate your comments, suggestions, and constructive criticisms. Best regards, Hey DC: Not the kind of comments you were expecting, but where do you get square 12L14? Is it common. I have a bunch of round stock in 1/2", 1", and 1-1/2", but I haven't seen it square. Somebody told me it only came round. I appreciate the information. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: 12L14 Steel -- was Horizontal Milling Conversion Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:34 pm ((PST)) Hi Tom, http://www.mcmaster.com/ page 3561 They have square bar from 1/4" up to 2-1/2" also hex up to 3" I've never seen it in plate, if anyone has, please tell us where. DC ------- Re: 12L14 Steel -- was Horizontal Milling Conversion Posted by: "fpres61" fpres61x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:50 pm ((PST)) Hi Tom: Suggest that you also check out www.metalexpress.net for square stock. Frank ------- Re: 12L14 Steel -- was Horizontal Milling Conversion Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:52 pm ((PST)) DC: 12L14 steel plate can be ordered from local metal suppliers in just about any reasonable size and thickness. (As well as any other common shape.) When I machined my rear tractor rims I ordered a 7" diameter ring torched or however they did it from 3" thick 12L14 plate. I think many times we all forget to check with many of the most helpful people, our local suppliers. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Introduction [LittleEngines] Posted by: "Donald Qualls" silent1x~xxix.netcom.com Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 3:18 pm ((PST)) Dan wrote: > Folks, I am a very green wannabee almost machinist. I am > old/retired/single and own a DRO Sherline lathe. When in Atlanta, I > spend lots of time making round things smaller and clean up the chips. > I am trying to avoid buying a mill but, losing ground. Seems all steam > engines have parts that are flat and some square and hollow. > Any comment I make in here, please take with a grain of salt unless you > believe in the "blind pig and the acorn". When not in Atlanta, I am in > the Miami area of FL on my boat. Dan. One option to consider as a much less costly alternative to a mill is a milling attachment for your lathe. Sherline makes a rather nice one, from what I've seen, and the only other addition you'd need to add is a collet chuck to hold the end mills (and there are collets that are inexpensive -- avoid WW if you're trying to save money) or a dedicated end mill holder made to fit your lathe (should be able to find something to fit your 1MT spindle bore, from Sherline if nothing cheaper). You can't work very large parts, but it should be perfectly adequate for many desktop sized model engines. Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "Dan Pettersson" dan610324x~xxhotmail.com Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 3:58 pm ((PST)) Almost anything you need to mill you can mill in the lathe. Just take your time and think a little, then you see that you don't need an mill, but ok it's fun to have an mill also. ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 4:07 pm ((PST)) Don: Yes, I am aware that Sherline makes the adapter. I have considered it. I think a dedicated machine is far better. Saves time bring either into tolerance and time. Dan ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "Ron Gerlach" r7734gx~xxhotmail.com Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 5:19 pm ((PST)) Dan: How serious is the "wannabee" part? If you intend to just do some occasional tinkering with small steam engines models or similar projects, then yes you can get by without a mill. It will be slower and perhaps frustrating sometimes. If you cannot afford a used mill of some type then it is a moot point but if you have the resources and are serious about being a hobby machinist, then a mill would be money well spent. It is probably a safe statement that everything you can do with a mill attachment on a lathe can be done more easily on a mill and there are some things that are just not practical to do on a lathe with a milling attachment. The bigger the item you are trying to mill, the more impractical the milling attachments are. That having been said, once you buy a mill, you are not really done until you have bought a variety of tooling for it. But then again you can start out simple and add more goodies as the need dictates and the pocket book allows. Just my 2 cents. Ron ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 5:31 pm ((PST)) Ron, oh yea, learned that lesson when I bought lathe. LOL. I fooled them, there is very little they can sell me. I bought it already from them . I think they could give the lathes away with the understanding you would buy all the accessories from them. Dan ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "Cliff. Johnston" moments-in-timex~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 5:53 pm ((PST)) I was wondering how much I would need a mill until one of our club members, an astronaut with NASA, gave a presentation. The question was asked as to how the space station was made, ie: the most used machinery. The answer was that most of it was milled. As I look at some of the projects that I would like to build, I see that most of the parts will have to be milled too. The percentage will vary with the product, but one thing is certain. Both a lathe and mill are needed. So unless you expect to produce products/projects that are predominantly round all the time, buy a mill too. Cliff ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "David Wood" dave.woodx~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:58 pm ((PST)) Don: You should also warn Dan that there are work envelope issues to be resolved. You're pretty limited with the milling conversion for the lathe (never mind having to re-align everything between setups). The X-axis space will pretty well dictate Taig-type endmill holders, stub length drills in collets, etc. Mind you, it /will/ work; but Dan should be aware of the issues. Dave Wood ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "paul moralee" iammozax~xxyahoo.com.au Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 9:23 pm ((PST)) An x-y dual axis cross vice mounted on his side to some 90 degree angle iron bolted to the lathe cross feed will do the trick. cheers: paul :-} ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "ron Pat" ronpat0471x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 9:56 pm ((PST)) The cross vice Paul is talking about works great; I have one mounted on a 618 Atlas. I forget what size it is but it was the smallest I could find. This is one place where bigger is not better. ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "paul moralee" iammozax~xxyahoo.com.au Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 10:08 pm ((PST)) Mine is 4" but a smaller one would be good. I'm running a Hercus South Bend 9 " lathe. ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "ron Pat" ronpat0471x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 10:13 pm ((PST)) I think it was a 3 inch I put on the atlas but it's still sorta big on the 6 inch lathe. ------- Re: Introduction Posted by: "russell" russx~xxemail.nu russell_hiscock Date: Wed Mar 5, 2008 3:46 am ((PST)) Great idea! Isn't it amazing how the obvious isn't? I have been puzzling how to jury-rig/bodge/bush engineer (pick your dialect) a vertical slide so I can fabricate a couple of small items, been tripping over the vice to get to the lathe! Mine is probably a bit big for comfort, but I'll give it a go. Hopefully, I can lock the slides once the work is in position and use the lathe crosslide as feed, cos it's pretty cheap and either locked or sloppy! regards russ ------- My Sherline Mill Stops [sherline] Posted by: "Tracy Atkinson" tracy.atkinsonx~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:13 pm ((PDT)) I was pleased to receive a few weeks back an author's copy of "Projects in Metal" Volume 6, wherein the article on my mill stops was reprinted. I have often wondered if this article was helpful to anyone. The jist of it can be found among the photo files of this group where owing to the lack of space at the time to post it to the regular files section, I had to include the instructions as a text photo. This is hard to read unless you enlarge it which is very " 'round Robin Hood's barn" Village press does not restrict the use of such material by their writers, so if anyone wants a decent version of this piece with my masterful, deathless prose intact, just let me know at Pictures of this project are also in the hints and tips section of the Sherline company website. See http://sherline.com/tip25.htm Tracy ------- Re: My Sherline Mill Stops Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Apr 2, 2008 5:01 am ((PDT)) Charles Fox wrote: > I'm having the devil's own time connecting to the Internet right now, > but I wonder if anyone else asked exactly where the photos are? What's > the folder name? The photo names? Go to the Photo Section; Look for the album entitled "Sherline Mill Stops" by tatkinsonavon. Album # 94. There are eight frames. The first two are text articles. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Sherline mill stops. Posted by: "Tom Bank" trbankx~xxpaonline.com Date: Fri Apr 4, 2008 11:54 am ((PDT)) tracy Atkinson wrote: > Tom: I've gotten my replies to requests for the stops article somewhat > bollixed. Here's a copy in case I missed you. Tracy: Thanks much. I had a little trouble opening the .tif file, but tossed it into Photoshop and it did just fine. Converted it to a 150 dpi gray scale .jpg and it is still readable on screen and printable. I like what you did, although I will probably modify it somewhat. I have a ShopDawg 3-slot add-on table which sticks out over the sides of the standard Sherline 2-slot table. With it, I can cut a piece that will fit around the edge of the add on and into its outboard slot. That won't do for a work piece stop, but I have a set of those things already. As for the targets, I have on my ToDo list a set of Y-axis screw covers that will have aluminum ends. I think I will just build the targets into the one end piece. And you stated the common complaint on the Tee-nuts or slot screws. I made a wood turning tool rest out of a piece of old pipe, cut to shape, hammered flat for the mounting piece, and then machined and case hardened. The mounting screw for that thing started out as a 1/4"-20 bolt. I slipped the threads into a short piece of the appropriate sized K & S brass tubing and chucked it up in the lathe, faced the outboard end of the head and and turned the inboard side down thin enough to fit in the lathe/mill Tee-slots. The part of the head that was turned down was sized to fit in the narrow part of tee-slot. The remaining part of the head was turned round, and then by transferring the chuck to one of the Sherline hex or octagon blocks in the mill vice, I cut two flat edges to fit the tee-slot. Now I have a tee-screw with two rounded ends that are somewhat easier to fit in the cross slide slots and I use a flare nut on top to lock the tool rest in place. The same thing could be done for mill hold down clamps. Not only is it easier to fumble the rounded end into the tee-slots, having a solid end on the underside means you don't gouge up the bottom of your tee-slot. Thanks again for the article, Tom Bank ------- A simple but effect mod to my 2000 mill, a keyed steel column [sherline] Posted by: "Craig Earls" enderw88x~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:51 pm ((PDT)) I grew really tired of constantly being suspicious that the column on my 2000 had shifted (rotated). So I made a simple mod. I added three standard sherline keyways so the column can be locked to dead ahead and thirty degrees to either side (which puts the ram in a good position to reach the ends of the table travel should I need it). Since this is the only mill I have, I made completely new column pieces from 3" diameter 12L14 stock. I also added two more 1/4"-20 hold down bolts to the base ala A2ZCNC. So along with added stablility in the column, the added mass reduces vibration a bit. I may remanufacture the ram in steel as well, mostly for the mass, but the added stiffness won't hurt. Pictures wouldn't show much but an unpainted steel column on my 2000, making the parts was pretty straight forward. Craig http://enderw88.wordpress.com ------- A2Z CNC Z column complete [sherline] Posted by: "timgoldstein" timgx~xxktmarketing.com Date: Thu May 1, 2008 8:59 am ((PDT)) We have finished the first batch of Z columns and got the first one assembled and tested yesterday. Ends up with 16" of Z travel and much greater rigidity. With the 4 TPI Kerk precsion leadscrew we use as our standard configuration I was running reliably at 90 ipm on the Z using an Xylotex controller and Mach2 with a 234 oz/in stepper. Based on customer input we added the ability to mount the column on a 2000 ram without using the 5400 style mounting base. So owners of 2000 based machines that are running our extended Y base have the option of using the column in a 5400 configuration for maximum rigidity or removing the mounting base from the Z column and bolting it onto their 2000 ram when they need the reach at the sacrifice of rigidity. Some details on the column. It will ship with the saddle and screw already assembled. This starts our as 30 lbs of 6061 billet and ends up at just over 19 lbs when complete. Finish is hard anodize and the Z column slide and saddle are Teflon impregnated. While the 4 TPI Kerk screw is the standard, we offer a 20 TPI or a 5mm/turn version as a no charge substitution. The saddle portion has hole pattern to afix the motor mounting plate that has 5 rows of holes. The motor mount plates have 3 rows of holes. This means you can move the motor mount plate up or down to give more usable range if you need the spindle higher or lower. This motor mount arrangement also lets you change the mount plate to a Taig version plate and then mount a Taig ER16 or standard spindle. I have put some photos on a page at: www.a2zcnc.com/a2zcncmonstermill.htm Tim A2Z Corp A2Z CNC division 1530 W Tufts Ave Unit B Englewood CO 80110 720 833-9300 www.A2ZCNC.com USA made accessories for desktop mills & lathes. Specialized tools for the jewelry industry. ------- Extended Sherline 2000 Mill column with 8020 extrusion [sherline] Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:14 am ((PDT)) I needed a bit more column height on a recent project so I used a bit of 8020 extrusion and made two adapters to raise things up a bit. Here is a link to how I did it. The 8020 is extremely solid. No worries about unintended movement. http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/sherlinecolumn/sherlinecolumn.htm ------- Re: Extended Sherline 2000 Mill column with 8020 extrusion Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:56 pm ((PDT)) Hi David: Thanks for the write up, very useful. I couldn't find a store on Ebay with the name of "8020 Surplus", but I did find one called "8020 Inc Garage Sale" is that it? Cheers, Martin ------- Re: Extended Sherline 2000 Mill column with 8020 extrusion Posted by: "David Morrow" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:57 pm ((PDT)) Yes, that's the place. And they're great people to deal with. David Morrow ------- Digital Readout ( DRO ) [sherline] Posted by: "wpoplin_2000" wpx~xxwpoplin.com Date: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:48 pm ((PDT)) For anyone who may be interested, I installed a 3-axis DRO on the Sherline Lathe using the caliper type scales attached to a common readout. Pictures are posted in the photos section under "Woody-LatheMods". I am pleased with the installation and the performance. I purchased Sherline's DRO for installation on the 2000 mill, but there were lots of things that I did not like about it. Hence, the decision to try a different approach for the lathe. Any comments are appreciated. Woody -------- Re: Digital Readout ( DRO ) Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:55 pm ((PDT)) Hi Woody: Are these more accurate than the Sherline DRO's? Where did you get the caliper scales and how did you interface them all to a common readout? I'm guessing Shumatech but I could be wrong. Thanks for posting the pictures, Martin ------- Re: Digital Readout ( DRO ) Posted by: "wpoplin_2000" wpx~xxwpoplin.com Date: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:53 pm ((PDT)) Martin, I believe they are more accurate because of the way they operate. The Sherline DRO basically counts revolutions of the handwheels. There is a mechanism to mathematically subtract the backlash. Unfortunately, with a lot of back and forth movement, the backlash errors constantly increase. Also, backlash error is not constant across the leadscrew length. The result is that, I am never confident of the values from the Sherline DRO. With this modification, you essentially have a fixed caliper. Any errors are on the caliper level and remain relatively constant with movement back and forth. The Sherline DRO also requires replacement of the zero- adjustable handwheels with smaller non-adjustable handwheels that I do not like. With my lathe setup, I retained the adjustable handwheels and am confident of the numbers I read on the DRO. The DRO came as a scale/readout kit from Spokane Metal Works (not sure what name they operate under now). Little Machine Shop as well as others sell them. I have a Jenix glass scale DRO on my larger milling machine. The lathe setup is not quite as nice, but it is close and it is a lot more compact. I checked into Shumatech. Never could quite figure out their marketing/ setup and unless you want to assemble your own electronics, I do not believe it is more cost effective than other package options. Woody ------- Re: Digital Readout ( DRO ) Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:38 pm ((PDT)) If I understand the pictures correctly, you have set up the third axis to measure how deep of a hole has been drilled with the tailstock. Would you care to comment more on this decision? I can see how it would be handy for things like tapping a blind hole, but I've never seen it done this way. Most of the DIY DRO setups that I've seen use only two axes for the lathe to reduce costs. ------- Re: Digital Readout ( DRO ) Posted by: "wpoplin_2000" wpx~xxwpoplin.com Date: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:02 pm ((PDT)) You are correct, the third axis measures the depth of the tailstock quill. I had three handwheels, so I wanted three readouts. You can certainly eliminate the quill and have only two, but the cost saving is very negligible. The short scale is only a few dollars and the difference between a 2 axis and a 3 axis readout is only a few dollars more. Woody ------- lathe crosslide [sherline] Posted by: "Sevag" sevag.krikorianx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:11 pm ((PST)) Hello, I have a sherline 4410 with a multi-directional milling column attachment (also metric). It's a great setup, but what I find is that the standard cross-slide is woefully short. I don't see anything in the sherline catalog to extend it, only a crosslide accessory that thickens up the existing crosslide. Has anyone thought of a solution to this without having to purchase an XY base? ------- Re: Lathe cross-slide Posted by: "Michael Glavin" michaelglavinx~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:19 pm ((PST)) Six" crosslide is standard on the 4000/4010 and 4400/4410 lathes while the CNC 4400 lathe comes with an 8" crosslide p/n# 67036, also requires a longer leadscrew #67221 for the 4410 metric lathe. The additional 2" is great for mounting a cut-off tool on the backside as well as other things I suspect. Michael Glavin ------- Re: Lathe cross-slide Posted by: "dan pines" danx~xxpines.co.il Date: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:25 pm ((PST)) 67036 is the 8" cross table but note that is it thicker than the regular 6" table. Therefore, table mounted accessories (like tool holders) will be too high and will have to modified or built from scratch. If you are willing to go down this way then you can probably also fit mill tables to the lathe; they use the same dovetails. regards Dan ------- Re: Lathe cross-slide Posted by: "Greg.Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz Date: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:01 pm ((PST)) Sherline does an 18" cross slide for the mill and A2Z does a 19"! Remember though, that the mill cross-slides are thicker than the lathe cross-slides so if you mount one on a lathe the centre height is reduced and the tool post will be too high. You either replace slides when you change between milling and turning, or alternatively you can mill off the bottom of a standard tool post and use that on the milling cross slide for your turning. I think the difference is about 1/4" inch or a 1/2" reduction in swing. You can add risers or just exchange cross slides when you need to turn larger items. Greg.P. ------- Re: Lathe cross-slide Posted by: "Sevag Krikorian" sevag.krikorianx~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:05 pm ((PST)) On Nov 24, 2008 Michael Glavin wrote: > FWIW: If you purchase the #1185 8" vertical mill table, all you have to do is back the handwheel all the way out, this puts the crosslide in your hands, and then you simply slide the extended/taller 8" crosslide assembly onto the crosslide dovetail and you're ready to work. However I guess there is a set-up consideration for mounting the mill column too. The #1185 can be had for $110.00 or so on eBay new, you'd get the benefit of another gadget that serves at least two needs. That said there is something to be said for dedicated machines. Michael < Although that is a good idea, I've checked with Sherline and they confirm that the 8" slide is 1/4" thicker than the standard 6". I'm already pressed for every bit of lathe clearance and I don't have much enthusiasm for the risers nor of modifying all my tool holders/devices that depend on the existing lathe setup. Looks like I'll be going with the dedicated mill table. Thank you for all of the advice! ------- Re: Lathe cross-slide Posted by: "dan pines" danx~xxpines.co.il Date: Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:37 am ((PST)) One other solution: keep 2 cross tables (complete with feed screws and handwheels) on hand. Use the original for lathe work. Use the 8" thicker one for milling only. Switching is painless except for turning the handwheel until the table slides off and then again to mount the other table. In any case, adding an xy table is far better although more expensive and requires extra desk space. regards Dan ------- Updated project photo [sherline] [also a saw table for Sherline] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:03 pm ((PST)) Hello Group, I've added a photo of the present state of my Fulton Steamboat Engine Project. Please see: http://tinyurl.com/cjmfxo Everything has been done on a Sherline CNC lathe and mill. Including the wooden pieces, about which more momentarily. David Clark in Southern MD ------- Saw table photo [sherline] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:08 pm ((PST)) Please see: http://tinyurl.com/dzhaoa [and in a later message] This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sherline group. File: /D.C.Clark/General Machining Topics/Converting a Sherline Lathe to a Mini Saw Table BW.pdf Uploaded by : a3sigma Description : Sherline Lathe Saw Table ------- Re: New file uploaded to sherline Posted by: "Reid" reidsimx~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:09 am ((PST)) Very nice. I think I want to make one. Where do you buy the blade and blade holder? Reid ------- Re: New file uploaded to sherline Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:07 am ((PST)) Hello Reid: The saw is McMaster Carr part number 3062A28 General Purpose HSS Slitting Cutter 2-3/4" Cutter Dia, .028" Thk, 1" Hole Dia, 72 Teeth. The arbor is Sherline part number 3235 Milling Arbor, 1" diameter 7/8" long. You may also want to consider the 1-3/4" long part number 3236, if you want more distance between the saw blade and the motor. I already had one of each and that largely decided the choice of saw blade hole diameter. You could of course make your own arbor to fit the headstock taper, or the 3/4-16 spindle nose, or make something to fit an end mill holder, to suit whatever blade you like. I also already had the tailstock riser block, Sherline pn 1292. If you don't want to spend 50 bucks (US$)on that, it would be pretty easy to make something else to clamp onto the lathe bed. Especially since location is not so critical, only stability; you don't need an accurate sliding fit to the dovetail. If you design something, you may want to consider building in a height adjustment, or even a tilting feature. The table is of MIC6 tooling plate, McMaster 86825K11. Can't recommend this stuff too highly: ground finish, flat, stable, accurate, machines beautifully. My design choices are often based on what I have on hand, and I've never designed anything that I didn't think of half a dozen ways to do it differently, maybe better. Let us know what you come up with. Regards, DC ------- Re: New file uploaded to sherline Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:28 am ((PST)) Reid, I don't want to steal David's thunder, but rather add to it . Just to prove the point that there are many ways to get to a goal, here is another take on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-XOpPyIwZM oops! watch your fingers! Regards, Martin ------- NOTE TO FILE: The above youtube link is to one of the many useful videos made by someone calling himself gmark1953. His other videos show modifications and homemade accessories for Sherline lathes and mills. These videos show many skills and how-to's and ideas that might be adapted for other machine brands too. SAFETY NOTE: This particular video shows a hand placed dangerously close to a rotating unshielded lathe dog. Use of a suitable fixed guard to prevent the left hand from contacting the moving dog (or chuck in other videos) would be a very wise precaution. ------- My sherline mill CNC conversion [sherline] Posted by: "panofish" panofishx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:13 am ((PST)) I've created a couple of 12 minute videos on my sherline mill cnc conversion. For the experienced, this may be boring stuff, but for others like me... it was hard to find good detailed information like this, so I thought I'd share. http://home.comcast.net/~panofish/WEBLOG/2009-02-15_Sherline_CNC_1 http://home.comcast.net/~panofish/WEBLOG/2009-02-18_Sherline_CNC_2 ------- More photos, more mods, more to come [sherline] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed May 6, 2009 2:55 pm ((PDT)) Hello group, After a very helpful discussion here some weeks ago, I decided to invest more in my Sherline equipment rather than buy some Chinese iron. To begin, I've just installed the extended column and table on my 2000 mill. Since the last step in this activity was to tram the head, I took the photos with my setup for doing that in place. That's a 12" square of 1/4" borosilicate float glass on the mill plate. You will also see I've added the extended mill head spacer block from A2Z-CNC. See photos in my album beginning with: http://tinyurl.com/cky3vs My main reason for extending the column was to have more room to use things like tap handles in situ, and to accommodate that nice Rohm keyless chuck you see in the photos. My current project also has some long parts that were getting a little crowded on the standard table. And I've often wanted more room there when cutting gears with the rotary table and right angle tail stock in place. My next plans are to beef up the column stiffness and add some additional configuration options. I'm redoing my horizontal milling setup pictured earlier in my album. Much more to come, David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- I made my own power feed....and it works! [sherline] Posted by: "Seth" sethtroutnerx~xxaol.com Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 5:06 am ((PDT)) I know that I am a noob to the world of metal machinery and my acomplishments are basic, but I am very excited about my latest project. I made a power feed for my Sherline lathe out of an old DC motor and power supply that I had. It only cost around $15 from RadioShack to get the rest of what I needed. I put a pot' dial and a reversible switch so I can change the direction and the speed of the feed. Instead of using a gear motor I turned some aluminum pulleys and used a belt drive. I found out the hard way that gears were a bad idea because I had no limit switch to turn the motor off at the end of the table. The belt I am using will actually slip on the pulley if I run the table out too far. I know that Sherline sells a feed, but it is not reversible and it has only one speed. Can anyone tell me if the motor in the Sherline power feed #3001 is an AC or DC motor? If it is DC than it could easily be modified to turn in both directions as well as regulate the speed. Also, does the Sherline feeder have any kind of safety shut off so it will not run to the end of the table and bind up if left on by accident? ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 5:21 am ((PDT)) I'd be interested to see pics and specs of your feed. The motor that Sherline provides is A/C and looks a lot like a BBQ spit motor LOL ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "Jim Ash" ashcanx~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 5:52 am ((PDT)) ... and it has no limit switches on it. Jim ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 5:50 am ((PDT)) Hi Seth, a couple of ideas... Use a timing belt for positive drive. Easy to substitute the pulleys. Look into micro switches to rig up as limit switches to cut the power to the motor where and when you want to. A slipping belt will heat up and stretch and eventually fail. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "Hamilton Elliott" helliottx~xxmicroflex.ie Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 6:24 am ((PDT)) I have added some photos of my lathe, including power feed, to the photos section. No limit switches but you have to keep your finger on the button. Its own battery was dead and it's cheaper to buy a new one. Hamilton ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 6:34 am ((PDT)) Hi Hamilton: Looked at your photos, and knowing you are a believer in constructive criticism, will offer this advice. The two top edges of the plywood mount for your motor are screaming for healthy radii ! Best regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) (A safety nut in New York) ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "Seth" sethtroutnerx~xxaol.com Date: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:33 pm ((PDT)) Here is a 10 min video that I put on Youtube which features the power feed that I made. Very basic stuff here but I had fun making the video. Input and advice is appreciated; smart-ass remarks tolerated. Thanks! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhqpoita2mE ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "Shortylx~xxbtes.tv" shortyleatherwood Date: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:48 am ((PDT)) Seth: The power feed looks great; I like the belt drive. I would suggest moving the drive to the rear of the lathe just to get it out of the way. I burnt up two of the factory models before I went to cnc. You was smart in adding the reverse switch. Shorty ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:38 am ((PDT)) Seth, Fantastic! I concur, move the motor around back, the control box forward and if you put in the rheostat, put on that head stock stop and you will have the perfect set up! Now I have to steal a copy machine, so I can get a motor ...... then off to a Radio Shack store to shop lift a DC power supply. LOL I suspect the desire for a rheostat can be resolved with a variable output DC power supply. Dan ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:55 pm ((PDT)) Hi All: One more thing; if I was going to do that, I would use a timing belt and timing belt pulleys for a more positive drive. Yes, it is easy to come along after, but that is my suggestion. Based on many years of experience. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "Seth" sethtroutnerx~xxaol.com Date: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:50 pm ((PDT)) Thanks for the kind words all... Initally I did have the motor to my power feed mounted behind the machine, but I found out that the lathe motor would bump into it when I tried to rotate the head stock more than a few degrees. Jerry, the timing belt is a better option, but I personally like the idea of a belt that will slip a bit if it is worked too hard. I don't like the idea of acidentally stressing my lead screw if I forget to turn the darn thing off. My powerfeed drive motor is a gear motor (way more power than it needs) and I am sure that it could do damage to my Sherline without some kind of failsafe. On an unrelated topic: I was reading some info on the Sherline website and it says that I should "NOT USE WD-40!" as a lubricant on my lathe. I understand that it is not a very good slide lube, but can I still use it to protect the metal parts from rust? I spray my machine down at least once a week. I will call sherline in the next day or two and see what they recommend.... ------- Re: I made my own power feed....and it works! Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:30 pm ((PDT)) Hi Seth: Limit switches are the way to go. The switches remember for you. Slipping belts heat up and fail. Micro switches are used in industry with good results. My "weapon of choice" for lube is: "Super Lube". Way before I ever heard of or owned a Sherline. I believe Sherline digs it too. Later, Jerry (Glickstein) ------- Speed Control transister [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "Dave" drakers007x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:43 pm ((PDT)) All: A while back I managed to smoke a speed control on one of my lil' sherline 4000 lathes. Since the motor is a dayton ac/dc variety I was able to run the unit with a Variable Speed AC controller. Since this was an extra unit I recently sold it to a gentlemen through Craigslist. I gave him the old speed control and explained that the repair should be less than a new speed control/suspecting the transistor. He got back to me and said he was able to fix it with a $2.50 transistor p/n 2N6509. Thought I'd pass along that tidbit to the group. Take care, Dave ------- Way Covers [sherline] Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Nov 1, 2009 8:05 pm ((PST)) I've made up way covers per: http://www.ixen-cnc.com/2007/10/leadscrew-cover-for-your-sherl ine-mill.html but I use paper because I couldn't find any plastic that would take the folds. I have a couple of issues, the paper doesn't hold up very well and the Scotch permanent double sided tape I use to keep it in place doesn't stay in place for long. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Martin ------- Re: Way Covers Posted by: "Hamilton Elliott" helliottx~xxmicroflex.ie Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 3:18 am ((PST)) Hi Martin: If you look in Hamilton's files in the Sherline CNC group I have modified that pattern so that the folds are colour coded and I find it much easier to use. If you can find a plastic pocket for an A4 or equivalent USA paper size for putting in a folder you can make an excellent cover. You want to look for a plastic that seems slightly too thin before you fold it. A plastic that seems right will probably fold too stiff. Also watch out for plastic that cracks after you fold and use it for a while. Regards, Hamilton ------- Re: Way Covers Posted by: "Mike Bauers" mwbauers55x~xxwi.rr.com Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 3:45 am ((PST)) Have you tried foam tape [mounting tape] instead? That stuff is used to mount work pieces on smaller mills for machining, So it should work well for your ways covers. Best to ya' Mike Bauers Milwaukee Wi, USA ------- Re: Way Covers Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 10:53 am ((PST)) Hi Mike: Thanks for the suggestion, that was what I tried first. I think it is the same adhesive on this as I have on the "permanent" double sided tape I'm using. It doesn't seem to like the Superlube I use or the Tap Magic. Regards, Martin ------- Re: Way Covers Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 10:46 am ((PST)) Hi Hamilton: I thought I'd tried just about every plastic from plastic pockets to Ziploc bags and every one was either too soft to hold the folds or too brittle and cracked sooner or later. I'm sure I tried plastic pockets for folders somewhere along the way, but maybe I'm mistaken I'll see if I can track some down and try again. Regards, Martin ------- Re: Way Covers Posted by: "Hamilton Elliott" helliottx~xxmicroflex.ie Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 11:09 am ((PST)) Hi Martin: I tried at least 4 types of pockets before I found the correct one and of course I only have two of that one and hundreds of the ones that are bad. Regards, Hamilton ------- Re: Way Covers Posted by: "JimD" jdantinx~xxbellsouth.net Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 3:26 pm ((PST)) Here are a couple of ideas that I'm trying: For the adhesive, I have a roll of 3M automotive trim tape. This is used for attaching exterior body panels, wings, etc. I used a small piece to attach an aluminum lift handle on my car's glass hatch - it's survived heat, rain, and carwashes. For the accordion bellows -- I've purchased a box of tear resistant waterproof paper that is designed for maps, field notes, signs, and other outdoor applications. I haven't actually started folding yet. If anyone is set up to easily produce the aluminum mounting plates (CNC maybe) I'd be interested in trading a generous amount of the trim tape and waterproof paper for a set of the plates. ------- Re: Way Covers Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 6:48 pm ((PST)) Hi Jim: The 3M automotive trim tape sounds like it might be a winner; do you have a source for that and the waterproof paper? Let us know how folding the waterproof paper goes. I made my mounting plates out of thin wood on the theory that double sided tape would stick better to wood than metal. (It does!) Martin ------- Re: Way Covers Posted by: "Tom Trikalinos" ttrikalinx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 2:29 pm ((PST)) I used some dubious plastic sheet and siliconed it to the brackets. Works great. The sheet was from a huge black envelop meant to hold artists' sketchbooks (the really big ones...) Not an artist myself - found a better use for it. Tom ------- Re: Way Covers Posted by: "VINCE PUGLIESE" gigitreoseix~xxrogers.com Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 7:53 pm ((PST)) I made my covers out of paper - reasonable quality printer paper that we use in the office. Once everything was folded up, I then sprayed them with Krylon Gloss Black. They have held up remarkably well. vp ------- Re: Cheap DRO for the Sherline mill and lathe [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "VINCE PUGLIESE" gigitreoseix~xxrogers.com Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:05 pm ((PST)) Here is a interesting approach to DRO: http://www.floridaame.org/HowTo2.htm Scroll down to Tip9. vp ------- Re: Cheap DRO for the Sherline mill and lathe Nuts Posted by: "Tony Zampini" zampini1x~xxcox.net Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:09 pm ((PST)) Hi Tom, I just finished making the Z-Axis Delrin nut assembly according to Al Lenz's drawings. Works great. I haven't seen RichD's version, but I assume it's similar to Al's. Is that correct, Rich? Look in the files section of this group for a folder called "Reduced Backlash Saddle Nut". I made the newer "revised" version dated 9/7/2009. As for threading the nut, I made a tap out of 12L14. No need to harden it, since you're only cutting Delrin. I seem to recall that Al tried single point threading, but got better results with a tap. Tony ------- Re: Cheap DRO for the Sherline mill and lathe Nuts Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:57 pm ((PST)) Tony, pretty much identical except I made a new nut in Delrin AF and added a lip on the top edge to prevent the nut slipping out on downward forces. Up force was not a problem. Suprising. RichD ------- Re: Cheap DRO for the Sherline mill and lathe Nuts Posted by: "Tony Zampini" zampini1x~xxcox.net Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:31 am ((PST)) Rich: Is Delrin AF different from regular Delrin? I picked up a 5/8" round black "Delrin" rod on eBay. Does the AF mean "teflon added"? Tony ------- Re: Cheap DRO for the Sherline mill and lathe Nuts Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:03 am ((PST)) Tony, DelrinAF has PTFE (Teflon) added. Machines the same. Well worth the extra cost. I buy from McMaster-Carr. They sell by the foot at whole bar pricing. RichD ------- DelrinAF Nuts to make [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "cmsteamer" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:58 pm ((PST)) Revised version here from Nov 20 Here is the (updated) version from '08. These have performed flawlessly for many hours in commercial work and fine engraving. There are no drawings. Taps are HSS spiral point type. DelrinAF Nuts for Sherline leadscrews: Nov 20. A confusing error was found on rereading. Did some editing and rewording to clear it up little. A .doc copy and pictures are now in the files section in my folder "RichD's Goodies". DelrinAF Nuts for Sherline Mill leadscrews: Delrin is a brand name for acetal plastic resin engineering plastic. Machines almost like 360 brass AND an almost ideal bearing material. Delrin-AF has PTFE (Teflon) added making it even more useful. Machineablility is the same. See McMaster-Carr for Delrin-AF by the foot. 5/8" dia rod stock is best as the Z axis nut needs the extra diameter. Direct replacement X/Y nuts can be made, but the better way is to make a long nut and a compression nut so adjustments are easier. This isn't an anti-backlash nut in the true sense of the word, but it works and backlash will be near zero. Adjustments and wear will be few and far between. -Remove the brass nuts and locking setscrews from the saddle. -Using a well trammed mill, locate over the FRONT Y axis hole and drill 11/32" dia to 1.250 depth. Tap 3/8-32 x .50 deep. This hole is VERY close to the top surface. Be careful. Use plenty of cutting fluid on this aluminum extrusion. -Do exactly the same for the X axis from the RIGHT side. Do Not drill the left side. -Make 2 brass or steel compression nuts from 3/8 hex stock. OAL 5/8" and lathe threaded 3/8-32 x 17/32 length. You want a close fitting thread that stays snug on its own. A short hex head remains. Drill Letter F (.257") thru. Thread and hole must be concentric. -From DelrinAF stock--drill #8 (.199") x 1" deep and tap 1/4-20 1 right hand thread and1 left hand. Use new SHARP taps supported on the tailstock center. Machine to .343/.344 dia for a close fit in the 11/32 holes and cut off to .750" length. -Try on the leadscrews for fit and run the tap thru again as needed for a fit where you can spin the nut with the fingers, but still a bit snug. -Drill and tap a 10-32 setscrew hole 7/8 in from the saddle right face on the bottom centered under the X nut. From the left side 7/8 back from the saddle front for Y (2" deep). Deburr all holes and clean all chips out. -Seat the DelrinAF nuts into the saddle holes, and screw in the compression nuts. The leadscrews should rotate easily with the compression nut just barely snug on the nut. Any further compression should lock it up easily. This is the backlash adjustment. -Insert the locking setscrews and bed them hard into the Delrin nut several times, then back off until the leadscrew just turns freely. -Lubricate with Vactra #2 way oil and you're good to go. The Z Axis nut: An aluminum or brass duplicate version of the saddle nut is made, but beefed up a little. The part that surrounds the leadscrew is made as large as possible leaving only 10 thou clearance in the column trough. Where the thread would go is bored 1/2" thru to hold the DelrinAF nut. The nut is turned from 5/8 DelrinAF to 1/2" OD, drilled and tapped 3/8-20 LH then cut off leaving a 3/32 shoulder on top to prevent the nut from being pushed out of the saddle by the thrust. The shoulder diameter matches the saddle trough part width. The saddle is split to open the 1/2" bore and two 4-40 screws close it to control the squeeze for backlash control. It's well worth the effort to make this upgrade. RichD, Atlanta 11/20/09 edited update/erratum. ------- Re: DelrinAF Nuts to make Posted by: "buckeyevs" buckeyevsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:02 pm ((PST)) I put Delrin AF nuts in my CNC'd 2000 and it was like night and day. All axes have less than .001 backlash positional. It's one of the two best things I have ever done for my mill. I don't feel I can testify to the longevity of this mod as I don't use it on a regular frequent basis. I went about it a little different way on the X and Y. I replaced the nut with a ss sleeve with a 45* taper on one end that mates to the 45* on the nut. The nut is compressed by a sleeve pressed in by a clamp actuated via the factory anti-backlash lock screw. No modification needed to the saddle, but there are a couple more parts. ------- Re: DelrinAF Nuts to make Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:09 pm ((PST)) Reid wrote: > Can you take a picture of it and show me? Reid, there is not much to shoot. The DelrinAF nuts are buried in the saddle and difficult to remove. The adjusting (keeper) sleeve (nut) replaces the original B/L nuts except the X nut is on the Right now. Can **NOT** do it from the left. My description tells all that's need. I could do a drawing later. RichD [RichD's later message:] A .doc copy and pictures are now in the files section in my folder "RichD's Goodies". ------- Mounting bracket for a Dremel tool. [sherline group] Posted by: "sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com" Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:16 pm ((PST)) Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sherline group. File : /D.C.Clark/Dremel Mount.pdf Uploaded by : a3sigma Description : Mounting bracket for a Dremel tool. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/files/D.C.Clark/Dremel%20Mount.pdf Regards, a3sigma ------- Re: Feeding work into the lathe with the mill [sherline] Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Jan 1, 2010 5:42 pm ((PST)) The design of the Dremel has changed. The new Dremels require a different design. Look at the following URL. It will give you a pic of the new Dremel and the method they use to hold it. http://vanda-layindustries.com/ I suspect it can be adapted to the Sherline. Dan ------- Re: Feeding work into the lathe with the mill Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Jan 2, 2010 4:45 am ((PST)) Good morning all. The trend seems to be to make hand tools more "ergonomic", which seems to mean no straight lines, flat surfaces, or cylinders. Which makes it darn difficult to attach anything to them. If I had to mount a new tool, I might look into using a flex shaft to drive a more "machine-o-nomic" end effector. Hoping instead to get another 40 years out of my clunky, old fashioned, Dremel. DC ------- Sherline Drill Press ( was piggyback motor ) [sherline] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:24 am ((PST)) Following up from the piggyback motor thread I started: Marcus has sent me the CAD model and prototype of the drill press accessory he designed for Sherline. I've emailed Joe Martin, who replied that he had no objection to individuals reproducing this design for their own use, so long as no one undertook to market it commercially. Marcus' design remains the intellectual property of Joe Martin and Sherline. I'll be reproducing it myself, possibly with some modifications of my own, using Marcus' prototype as a test platform. May well produce a couple of configurations, with a view toward ease of manufacture by Sherline owners of various levels of experience -- using different combinations of purchased and made parts and sub assemblies. Also trying different materials. Marcus and I will be collaborating on this effort; should be a lot of fun, and, we hope, produce something useful to the Sherline community. We are both very busy with other matters, though -- his business, and my museum model -- so please be patient. I'll be posting results, with photos and drawings, from time to time as things develop. Watch this space, David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Sherline Drill Press D.C.Clark prototype Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:08 pm ((PST)) Hello Group, See files at http://tinyurl.com/y864e3d for photos and a short avi movie of my first prototype drill press attachment. The main appeal of this design, to me, is it's great simplicity. Very few parts, and no second dovetail or slide of any kind. The saddle nut is detached from the saddle and a block is bolted to the back of the nut. A shaft through the block turns a pinion, which moves a rack attached to the slide. This approach was suggested by Chuck Rice, whom I gratefully acknowledge. This prototype is a proof of concept only. Some refinements and additional features are needed. A spring, or counterweight is needed, and a locking mechanism. I expect to emulate Marcus' design for the spring and depth stop. A set screw against the pinion shaft may be all that's needed for a lock. As an added refinement, I expect to put a rack and pinion on both sides of the saddle, one half tooth out of phase. This will further stabilize the saddle block and reduce lash. Ultimately, I may well machine a new nut and block as a single unit. I'm also considering doing this as a urethane casting around the column and lead screw. I'm very pleased with the operation, and am pretty sure it will be the basis of my final version. However, I'm going to have to table this project for a while and get back to work on my museum model of the Fulton Steamboat Engine. My colleagues from New York are arriving for consultation in a few weeks, and I have great deal of work to do in preparation. Many thanks to everyone who contributed ideas and suggestions. I hope that others will pursue their own, and anyone is welcome to mine. DC ------- Re: Sherline Drill Press D.C.Clark prototype Posted by: "Alan" alanhyx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:23 pm ((PST)) Nice work David. I realize there is still a lot to do, but you are really keeping the parts down. And it's obviously a reversible modification. Alan ------- Re: Steel Base Plate for Sherline Lathe [sherline] Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:04 pm ((PST)) "Alan" wrote: > Robert, Since you have gone this far with the solid base idea, I wonder if having the machine shop mill the lathe base as flat and true would actually be a benefit. < Since the lathe base is not as rigid as the plate [thick steel] you describe, the mounting screws will bend the base into compliance with the plate. There's a simple way to prevent this: a liquid shim. Run a bead of epoxy around the footprint of the lathe on the plate. Set the lathe onto this, and install the screws just finger tight. (First spray a release agent on both, if you ever want to separate them again.) The epoxy will fill in all the tiny gaps between the base and the plate. Once it cures, tighten the screws, and you'll have a perfect match that does not induce any stress into the lathe. We used to do this routinely to mount components free of stress on an optical bench during nanometer scale laser interferometric measurements. It mattered a lot for that. In my view, bolting a Sherline lathe to a massive plate will make no detectable difference in its performance. But, what the hell, if you want to do it, do it right. DC ------- reversible power feed for Sherline lathe [sherline] Posted by: "leberpd" directorx~xxneuro-pharm.com Date: Tue Mar 2, 2010 8:06 am ((PST)) Beyond using a reversible power screwdriver, has anyone come up with a cheap, but reliable means to power feed the lathe? I've read about DC gearhead motors which I assume can be reversed with a single pole double throw switch; however, what size, torque and speed control are available? I've also read about using 'stepper motors;' however, but I'm not sure I could figure out how to set one up and, again, I have no idea of the size and type of motor I'd need. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks ------- Re: reversible power feed for Sherline lathe Posted by: "Hamilton Elliott" helliottx~xxmicroflex.ie Date: Tue Mar 2, 2010 9:44 am ((PST)) I've used the reversible screwdriver and it works OK. The speed control is a little fast even at the lowest speed to use for cutting. But it is very handy to move the table longer distances. Sherline has an attachment which fits into the threading point. You could use a stepper motor for much more precise speed control. You could get an Arduino microprocessor board for a little over $20, an Easydriver to actually output the pulses to the motor and a motor for about $15 each plus some switches and a power supply. The total should be easily less than $100. If you would like help to go this route you can contact me off list. You don't need to make any modification to the lathe and you would have a very precise variable speed, both directions, and you could program it for precise distances too. A bit like a single axis CNC lathe! Regards, Hamilton ------- Re: reversible power feed for Sherline lathe Posted by: "Rich Dean" toolman8x~xxcopper.net Date: Tue Mar 2, 2010 11:25 am ((PST)) Another way is a 90V DC motor and control board. The Sherline motor control is available as well as Minaric and Dart brands. A motor can be found in a hand held type food mixer. These controls use back EMF to control speed and torque. A pot is supplied to adjust speed from zero to max. PS is line voltage. All can be mounted in a small box. Cost can be as low as $50. RichD ------- Re: reversible power feed for Sherline lathe Posted by: "William Rutiser" wruyahoo05x~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Mar 2, 2010 10:26 am ((PST)) How do you connect the screwdriver to the lathe? Bill ------- Re: reversible power feed for Sherline lathe Posted by: "Hamilton Elliott" helliottx~xxmicroflex.ie Date: Tue Mar 2, 2010 11:54 am ((PST)) Hi Bill: If you look on my website www.microflex.ie click photo gallery. Enter user and userpass for the username & password. Look under lathe, there are a couple of pictures of it there. Regards, Hamilton ------- Re: reversible power feed for Sherline lathe Posted by: "Hamilton Elliott" helliottx~xxmicroflex.ie Date: Tue Mar 2, 2010 12:03 pm ((PST)) Look up part no 45140 which is the coupler to allow you to join a power unit/motor to the left end of the leadscrew and the best part is, it's only $6.00. Sherline only supply a 110v power feed motor. Regards, Hamilton ------- Re: reversible power feed for Sherline lathe Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Mar 2, 2010 12:11 pm ((PST)) I have heard that AC motor called a BBQ motor. LOL. It may very well be the same motor used to turn a roast on the BBQ grill. I use the AC motor but, if I had to do it all over, I would have gone the route of stepper motor and a preprogramed control box for the lathe. I totally agree, turn the hand wheel instead of using the handle. Works for me. Dan ------- Re: reversible power feed for Sherline lathe Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Mar 2, 2010 9:11 pm ((PST)) Hamilton Elliott wrote: > You could get an Arduino microprocessor board A bit like > a single axis CNC lathe! If you added an optical RPM sensor on the spindle, and a bit of software to hook them together, you'd be describing John Dammeyer's Electronic Leadscrew project. It will thread as well as power feed, and if you add another stepper it can be persuaded to cut tapers. ------- Learning to use a stepper [sherline] Posted by: "Hamilton Elliott" helliottx~xxmicroflex.ie Date: Wed Mar 3, 2010 1:38 pm ((PST)) Hi: Apologies to anyone on cross groups who gets this multiple times. If anyone is interested in learning to use a stepper motor using an Arduino (microprocessor) for driving a Sherline lathe leadscrew or whatever, you are invited to join the group below. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sherlinearduino/join Regards, Hamilton ------- Sherline Mill used as a lathe? [sherline] Posted by: "ron" ron_tenthoreyx~xxyahoo.ca Date: Sat Mar 6, 2010 6:13 am ((PST)) With the mill bases on sale till month's end I'm thinking to upgrade. Question is I want the 17" CNC lathe as well to upgrade my manual 15". My thought is that I could use the mill set-up as a lathe and the existing lathe bed as an extension to the mill table for extremely long items. Right now my lathe is bolted to a 6' 5" aluminum i beam Does anyone use their mill as a lathe on a regular basis? advantages? disadvantages? I can see turning 6" dia with the lathe for a fishing reel. Need comments before the sale ends Thanks ------- Re: Sherline Mill used as a lathe? Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Mar 6, 2010 6:44 am ((PST)) Hi Ron, I am way into alternative configurations of my Sherline lathe and mill. I've used the the lathe as a mill, and the mill as a lathe, along with various schemes to extend the range of both. The big issue is stiffness. How stiff a setup needs to be depends on material, depth of cuts, and accuracy required. I've had no real difficulty holding tolerances of a few mills (.001") in any of my Rube Goldberg setups. See my files at: http://tinyurl.com/ya555pa and photos at: http://tinyurl.com/y9xwpo2 (I see that some of my photos need to be updated, will get to this ASAP.) David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: Sherline Mill used as a lathe? Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Mar 6, 2010 2:38 pm ((PST)) Martin Dobbins wrote: > David, Where did you get the 3/4" X 3" 12L14 plate for your rear column mount? In my (very limited) experience 12L14 doesn't come in flat plates. Martin < You're right. That will be 1018, my second choice for machinability. It's a low carbon, cold rolled steel. Sorry if I misstated the material somewhere. I get most all of my material from McMaster-Carr. DC [Martin later message] > Your PDF in the files section said it was 12L14. [David later message] Thanks for catching that, I've fixed the error. ------- Coolant delivery [sherline] Posted by: "Harry Brill Jr." proaudioguyx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:53 am ((PDT)) How do you guys deliver your coolant? I am considering making a tray with a filtered drain that drops into a jug with a small pump that pumps up to the point of contact. The coolant would then drip down around the sides of the lathe into the tray. It occurred to me one of the OLD buffet trays would work well. Seems like the lathe bed would have to be bolted through the tray. Thinking for easiest cleanup studs coming up through the bed with wingnuts would be ideal. Along these lines, what keeps the coolant from splattering all over the place? Some sort of partial enclosure? Or perhaps I am making too big a deal of it. It's very difficult to apply coolant continuously while turning 2 handwheels. Harry Brill Jr. ------- Re: Coolant delivery Posted by: "Paul W. Chamberlain Sr." pwcx~xxhughes.net Date: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:19 am ((PDT)) You have a micro machine... think micro: http://www.micromark.com/MICROFLOW-COOLANT-SYSTEM,8474.html You could mount a small steel plate on the backside of the cross slide, for the magnetic base, so the nozzle travels with the cutting point. For a different variety of trays, locate a local restaurant supply outlet. In the Northwest, we have "United Grocers" outlets open to the public. For splash shields, I go to Home Depot or Lowes and get Plexiglas or Lexan sheet. While there I also get 1" and 1 1/2" by 1/16" angle aluminum. I "sandwich" the clear sheet vertically between the 1 1/2" angle on the outside and the 1" angle on the inside. Pop rivet through the vertical "sandwich" then use "Self Piercing Lath" screws through the horizontal layers of the two angles into my shelfboard base... after drilling holes of course. Easiest way for me is to clamp the angle pairs to the base with some scrap sheet pieces between for spacers, and drill/screw the angles to the base. Then it's easy to just drop the sheets in, drill the cross holes, and pop rivet to complete. Vertical aluminum angle "sandwiches" in the corners completes the enclosure for a reasonably rigid assembly. I miter cut the ends of the aluminum angles for a close fit in the corners. Also when cutting plastic sheet, use a blade fine enough that it doesn't break out chips... and cutting speed low enough that it doesn't melt the plastic. Here is an example using white board on one of my other machines: http://www.mechanicalphilosopher.com/pcham04.jpg A couple of Sherline accessories would help as well: http://www.sherline.com/3015pg.htm http://www.sherline.com/4360pg.htm Keep in mind that a lathe will sling liquid upwards... and always toward the operator. ;o) No affiliation with any vendors... Paul, Central OR ------- Re: Live Center [sherline] Posted by: "Adam Collins" rxforspeedx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 3, 2010 2:00 pm ((PDT)) Has anybody modified a Sherline unit or made a custom tailstock that accepts anything besides MT0 tools for these lathes? I've found that even a new or freshly sharpened 5/16" drill bit is really pushing the limits of the holding power of such a small OD and length of taper. I have a model 4400 lathe, and I wouldn't mind losing over an inch of length for turning between centers to have the ability to fit MT1 or MT2 tooling into my tailstock. ------- Re: Live Center Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 3, 2010 5:06 pm ((PDT)) I believe JerryG suggested making a MT0 to a MT1 adapter, if so desired. DanD. ------- Re: Live Center Posted by: "Harry Brill Jr." proaudioguyx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 3, 2010 5:11 pm ((PDT)) Why not just make your own tail stock? Then you will have it all. You can keep the stock unit for when you need it. Harry Brill Jr. ------- Re: Live Center Posted by: "iamstarvin" iamstarvinx~xxfrontiernet.net Date: Sat Apr 3, 2010 5:47 pm ((PDT)) Adam: Several years ago I made a new tailstock ram in a #1 morse taper. Trouble is it's really too big to build on a sherline. I started with a piece of 5/8" 12L14 turned the outside to fit the hole for the ram. Turned it around in a 4 jaw chuck then bored it and cut the taper. Then I had to use an end mill to cut the dado for the lock screw. As I recall I had to get a 1/4 20 left hand tap. Also all #1 MT's from sherline have a hole tapped for a draw bar; you need to make a 1/4 20 extension to eject your tools. I wound up giving it away so I can't post a picture. Someday I'll get around to making another, because it makes all of your chucks available for the lathe and mill. Not really sure in a pinch you couldn't use your 4400 but I think the problem was rotating the headstock to cut the taper. Hope this helps Steve ------- Re: Live Center Posted by: "Adam Collins" rxforspeedx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 3, 2010 7:34 pm ((PDT)) Steve: Thanks for the info! I have access to a full machine shop at school (manual Bridgeports/Cincinnatti vertical & horizontal mills, South Bend, American, LeBlonde, and other lathes-some with 20"+ swings and 96"+ beds, CNC Okuma mill and lathe, CNC Bridgeport/Centroid mill, Aria wire EDM, and nearly all the tooling one could imagine), so bigger projects aren't a big deal for me-only time. I also have the "big" Taig mill (the 2019CR-ER), which has proved to be very rigid for a machine of its size (sorry to you Sherline mill guys-I like my Sherline lathe, but I wouldn't trade my Taig mill for anything). I also have a collet chuck (Beall Tool Co. ER-32 3/4-16 threaded chuck) and heavier duty 3- and 4-jaw chucks with longer/thicker jaws for my 4400, so I can at least attempt to turn stock that I'd be afraid to in a standard Sherline chuck; 5/8" OD 12L14 is no problem in the collet chuck; I have ER-32 collets in 1/16" sizes from 1/16 to 13/16. Once I finally get the headstock of my Sherline squared to within acceptable tolerances and build a front-mounted compound slide that will hold my A2Z CNC and custom built QCTP holders, I'll build a ram like the one you did before I try to build a new tailstock. I should be able to find a 1/4-20 LH tap to use at school, and the milling would be done on my Taig. I could also engrave the graduations on the top with a small bal end mill or center drill, but numbering them would be more of a job for me right now than I believe it would be worth (maybe just a single line engraved under the 1" line a few degrees around the graduations, or maybe even varied depths distinguishable by eye for 16ths, 8ths, quarters, and halves). When you do get around to building another, please document the build and post the info on the groups website. I'll do the same if I get around to it anytime soon. I really appreciate the info! Thanks! Adam Collins ------- [sherline] Poor MT0 Tailstock Holding Torque (used to be:Re: [sherline] Live Ce Posted by: "Adam Collins" rxforspeedx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 3, 2010 7:08 pm ((PDT)) Harry and DanD (and the rest of the group), That's what I'd like to do *eventually*; I have exploded diagrams of the Sherline part to get most of the info I'd need and I also have an adjustable tailstock for my 4" rotary table (it's not the Sherline unit, it's this one from LMS which would really be a simple design to repeat. I was hoping that somebody in this group had done something similar before and documented at least a small part of the build. I haven't been a member of this group for very long, but long enough to know that Jerry G knows his stuff. Even so, I don't believe that an MT0 male to MT1 female adapter would solve my problems because there's still the small OD and short length of the MT0 shank and consequently, the poor holding power of it. From my experiences, a 5/16" OD cutting tool (drill bit, reamer, #4+ center drill, countersink, etc.) is really too large for the holding power of the stock tailstock. Maybe I ended up with a crappy MT0 chuck adapter when I ordered my lathe (I should have a new one to test out when my Sherline order arrives Monday), but there's still the problem with the lack of MT0 tooling as somebody else had mentioned. Of course I have boring bars, but I'd hate to have to bore out all the bores I need, no matter what ID, from a starting point of 1/4" or 9/32". I'm not expecting a lathe of this size to drill 3/4" or larger holes from drill bits/reamers in the tailstock on a regular basis, but I'd like to not have to worry about cutting my left hand or arm (I'm a lefty; I need my left hand to do nearly anything) while holding and pushing inward on the drill chuck so it doesn't spin in the tailstock when using 5/16" or larger drill bits. And I can't use a tapered reamer in my tailstock; even with step drilled/ bored holes to leave the least amount of material possible, a sharp new B&S #1 or larger reamer won't remove aluminum (even with very little material left for it to remove, maybe 1/32" at the most in areas where two drill sizes met from the step driling) with all the pressure I can muster to push inwards on the drill chuck (the sharp ways and drill chuck ring gear can skin up palms, hands, wrists, and forearms quickly, take my word for it). I won't even think of attempting to use my MT1 reamer on the lathe right now. If I can find a good inexpensive MT0 reamer, I may try to ream the tailstock's internal taper out just a few thousandths before I use the new arbor I ordered from Sherline, but that'd just be a temporary solution in my eyes. I have an extra MT2 male to MT1 female sleeve that I could remove the tang from and modify it to use as a new tailstock tool holder/ ram/spindle, but I'm sure that would require basically building a new tailstock to make that work correctly. There's not enough meat in the factory tailstock to bore and ream it out to accept an MT1 shank because of the locking/set screw (the one with the o-ring behind the knurled head) that keeps the ram inline with the tailstock housings bore and also acts as a ram lock. If the OD of the ram were just a bit larger and the keyway cut for the locking/locating screw, it could be possible to bore it out to accept at least a small portion of an MT1 shank, which would then most likely provide the holding torque necessary for at least 3/8", 7/16", or even possibly 1/2" OD cutting tools. That's just my guess here, I'M NO ENGINEER (regrettably I had changed my major) but I believe that would work. I've got too much on my plate at this time to start on building a new tailstock anytime soon, but I'm all ears (actually eyes here in this group) for any suggestions, comments, ideas, criticism, etc. Anything that may steer me in a faster, more simple solution would be of great help to me. Thanks for the ideas and replys so far guys (and sorry to steal the OP's thread for the time being-I'll change the subject before I send this), and for any more of your time, help, and cooperation on this matter. Sincerely, Adam Collins ------- Re: Live Center Posted by: "danp" danx~xxpines.co.il Date: Sun Apr 4, 2010 2:34 am ((PDT)) 1. The late Jim Knighton modified a Taig tailstock to fit the Sherline + MT1 + sensitive drilling. Photos can be found under his name in the photo section 2. If it helps anyone, there is a relatively new MT0 blank available from Sherline, part 3051, see http://www.sherline.com/3051pg.htm regards dan pines ------- Poor MT0 Tailstock Holding Torque (used to be:Re: [sherline] Live Ce Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Sun Apr 4, 2010 1:07 pm ((PDT)) Adam: I would agree that a #1 MT mounting in a Sherline Tailstock Ram would be occasionally useful. However when you consider the size of the machine, #0 MT is certainly adequate and even desirable for small work. In this case if you are drilling 5/16" holes in steel, even #1 MT will not be helpful in holding a Drill chuck. I have many times had Arbors spin in #2 MT Ram mountings of Mid size Lathes when drilling 3/8" holes in steel. The simple solution is that you need small machine tools for small work and large tools for large work. Again however, If you must do this in a Sherline, a non slipping chuck solution is quite simple. If it were my problem to solve I would do it as follows. First the existing Tailstock Ram would be used for small chucks and other accessories. For large drilling I order an extra Tailstock Ram part # 40270/41270 depending on inch or metric and a extra chuck arbor. With both the arbor and Ram clean and dry, I would drive the Arbor into the Ram with a plastic tipped hammer. From that point I would further lock the arbor in place by installing a small set screw in the arbor end of the ram that engaged the Arbor. The set screw would not need to engage the Arbor more than about .075"-.100" deep. I would then install my large Chuck on that Arbor for use when drilling larger holes. An existing Tailstock Ram can be screwed out and another replaced back into the Tailstock from the front in 30 seconds. (I just timed it.) Jerry Kieffer ------- Drill Press Attachment - Revisited [sherline] Posted by: "Andy M" trumpy81x~xxoptusnet.com.au Date: Fri Apr 9, 2010 8:34 pm ((PDT)) GDay All, I have just posted a .pdf file containing my revised version of a Drill Press Attachment for Sherline milling machines. The new design allows for approx. 53mm of travel. The attachment and the spindle may be rotated to any angle whilst maintaining full operation of the Drill Press Attachment. Also, the operating lever may be installed in either left or right handed configuration. It's a simple matter of relocating the pivot studs into pre-drilled holes in the spindle spacer block. A standard spindle spacer block Sherline Part No. 1297, 44x0 Lathe CNC Ready 6inch X-Table Part No. 67035 and Gib Part No. 40980 are used in this design as starting blocks for the attachment. I welcome ANY comments in regard to this design and would very much appreciate any input in regards to the spring! You can find the file here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/files/Drill%20Press/ File: DrillPressAttach v1.0.pdf Regards Andy M ------- Re: Drill Press Attachment - Revisited Posted by: "Andy M" trumpy81x~xxoptusnet.com.au Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:37 am ((PDT)) GDay All, Jerry G, my biggest concern with the spring is its ability to hold the weight of the spindle, motor etc. without being too stiff to operate the drill press smoothly. I think the wire diameter, free length and spring diameter are not so much of a problem, but the pitch will need to be carefully selected so as to allow enough compression to realise full travel of the drill press without the spring suffering from fatigue. Regards Andy M ------- Re: Drill Press Attachment - Revisited Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:04 pm ((PDT)) Hi Andy, Have you considered using other than a compression spring? Most drill presses use a torsion spring. Or perhaps an extension spring? Or a negator spring? You might be able to rig up a dashpot to offset the weight and forces. These are just ideas in my mind. Regards, Jerry G ------- Re: Drill Press Attachment - Revisited Posted by: "Andy M" trumpy81x~xxoptusnet.com.au Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:06 pm ((PDT)) GDay All, Jerry G, I did consider several spring designs and in fact my earliest design used 2 extension springs, but I thought that it looked too bulky and out of step with the overall concept of the Sherline machines. Another consideration was that making a compression spring is not outside the capabilities of some machinists and they are readily accessible to a novice such as myself ;) It's just a matter of selecting the right one. Until now, I had no idea what a Negator Spring was, thank gawd for Google! :) I'm not sure that I could incorporate this type of spring into the design. Having no experience with this type of spring doesn't help either. At present, I'm considering using a leaf type spring, maybe even a multileaf spring which would simplify things even further, but it's just a thought at the moment. Regards Andy M ------- Spindle Extension [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "KWC" kencondalx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:38 pm ((PDT)) I have a 2000 mill with the 2" column riser installed. The added height is great for 95% of what I'm doing but today I needed to use the fly cutter and it won't reach the stock I have attached to the table (misses by about 1.5"). I searched the Sherline site (and many others) but can't find a solution. It would seem that a simple extension that screwed onto the spindle and had a female Morse taper would be readily available. Does such a thing exist? If not, how do others deal with this? Taking the mill apart to remove the riser for one operation is overkill. Plus, the size and shape of the part I'm machining would make it very difficult (and dangerous) to lift on parallels or blocks. Thanks, Ken ------- Re: Spindle Extension Posted by: "Doug Rundell" drundell1x~xxmsn.com Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:04 pm ((PDT)) Ken, I hate to have to say this ... but welcome to the real world. Sometimes a man's gotta do whatta man's gotta do. I've made lots of jigs for one time builds like a 27" dia. aluminum disc on my rotary table (Sherline 5400 mill). I don't recommend this ...but it did work, sorta, and it got the job done. Doug Rundell Billy Bob's Beer, Bait & Tackle 1339 Creekside Ln. Newberg, Oregon 97132 Ph 503-554-0824 ------- Re: Spindle Extension Posted by: "Ken Condal" kencondalx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:18 pm ((PDT)) Doug, I hate the real world :-) I've made zillions of jigs over the years, so I know what you mean. It's just that in this case I would have thought that the day Sherline invented the riser block they would have invented a simple extension to compensate for it. The lathe riser has all sorts of goodies to compensate for it. Ken ------- Re: Spindle Extension-real world Posted by: "William Thomas" wthomasx~xxgfn.org Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:56 pm ((PDT)) Hi All: Doug you are very right. When you have bigger machines you still have the same problems. I once put in 46 holes on a 42" bolt circle through two pieces of 3/4" thick steel 46" diameter on a Bridgeport mill. It had only 24" in table travel but the head swings so I put the head to one side and centered the 14" turntable on the saddle and two screw jacks in front of the knee. I supported the plate where I was drilling with a 4 x 4 between the floor and the bottom of the lower plate. That was 42 years ago when I was a lot stronger and could lift 200 lbs easily. GOD'S BLESSINGS Bill ------- Re: Spindle Extension Posted by: "imserv1" imservx~xxvectorcam.com Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:50 pm ((PDT)) Maybe modify a solid end mill holder. It will add about 1 1/2" to your extension from the spindle. I think you can bore a 3/8 to a #1 morse, and use a socket head cap screw to mount the fly cutter to the modified end mill holder, then screw the assembly onto your spindle nose. Here is an example holder: http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/solid_holder.aspx Even if you don't have a lathe, you can still mount a boring bar onto your mill to bore the taper into the holder. Another route is to set the machine up as a horizontal boring mill configuration and use a right angle plate to hold the work: Sherline part 3559 - 90° Angle Plate or the short version : 3561 - 90° Angle Plate Fred Smith - IMService http://ww.imsrv.com ------- Re: Spindle Extension Posted by: "djmorrow2004" morrow2002x~xxlightspeed.ca Date: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:37 pm ((PDT)) I had the same problem. Rather than lower the column, I raised the bed. I made a set of spacers to fit between the mill bed and the tooling plate. I turned them on the lathe out of 1" diameter aluminum and just made sure that they were all within .001" in length of each other. I used longer machine screws to go down through the tooling plate, through the spacers and into the mill bed. Worked perfectly. You could make them in sets of .500" length increments. I think I may have a pic or two if you need them to better understand what I mean. David Morrow [David in a later message] Ken, I just took a picture of my bed spacers / risers for you. There are only four in this pic and they worked well but you could just as easily make six or more and make them larger in diameter for more support if you felt it was needed; I didn't. http://www.ldrider.ca/webphotos/MillBedRiser.JPG ------- [convert Sherline steady rest fingers to roller bearings] Re: Steady Rest Bearings [sherline] Posted by: "Harry Brill Jr." proaudioguyx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:57 pm ((PDT)) Thanks guys. So what size bearings are you guys using? Harry Brill Jr. ------- Re: Steady Rest Bearings Posted by: "Nelson Wittstock" k8djcx~xxzoominternet.net Date: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:14 pm ((PDT)) I used bearings from McMaster-Carr. They are 3/16 ID, 3/8 OD and 1/8 wide. Their stock number is 57155K353 and the current price is $4.06 each. They are stainless steel and have worked well for me. HTH Nelson ------- Re: Steady Rest Bearings Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:09 am ((PDT)) "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com wrote: >Is there a hobby shop near you? If so, go in and check out the selection of tiny ball bearings used in RC cars. They'll have something that will do, and you'll probably leave with four for $5 or so.< I was about to say the same thing. As for centering bearings in the steady fingers, start with a 1/4" X 3/8" piece of brass. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Steady Rest Bearings Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:28 pm ((PDT)) Or don't slot the fingers. Mount them on the face of the fingers. Shoulder bolts are cool! Jerry G ( Glickstein) ------- Re: Steady Rest Bearings Posted by: "Harry Brill Jr." proaudioguyx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:51 pm ((PDT)) Would this work? http://www.1mta.com/image_uploads/pt31-photo.jpg Harry Brill Jr. ------- Re: Steady Rest Bearings Posted by: "DA Dossin" danatlx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:20 pm ((PDT)) Harry, Perfectly. DanD. ------- Re: Steady Rest Bearings Posted by: "chieftoolmaker" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:52 pm ((PDT)) That is exactly what I was typing about. Jerry G ------- Re: Steady Rest Bearings Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:47 pm ((PDT)) Harry: Personally I use .3125" OD x .125" ID x .140" wide Shielded ball bearings for general use. These bearings are heavy enough for the largest work but will also hold stock down to .050" in diameter. An example can be seen in the following link: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000134699144 The example shown would be the least quality I would suggest. Anything less will have rough operation and stop rotating at the worst time if they rotate at all. In addition, I would ONLY suggest that they be installed in a center slot machined in the standard .250" square Sherline steady rest brass arm. I will post an example installation under my name in the photo section. I WOULD NOT suggest that the bearings be installed on the side of the arm as sold on E-Bay. When the bearing is installed on the side of the arm, it will cause the bearing/screw/arm assembly to tilt slightly under load. This in turn will cause the work piece to be held in place by the inner edge of the bearing OD surface. When this happens the hardened edge of the Bearing outer race will roll a groove in some materials under load. (Ask me how I know.) Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Steady Rest Bearings Posted by: "Adam Collins" rxforspeedx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:04 pm ((PDT)) Jerry K, I've also noticed this from experience using 5x10x4mm el-cheapo RC car bearings. I have some brass stock to start fresh with these when I get the chance. Adam Collins ------- New Tryally album 5 [sherline] Posted by: "Luiz" try_allyx~xxyahoo.com.br Date: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:59 am ((PDT)) Hello everybody. Today I posted a new album (Tryally 5) to show my new Sherline machines after modifications. In the photos I show some more details of my modifications already. I hope that everyone can benefit from my ideas and I'll be happy with all the comments. And also to show my work space. Soon I will put new videos on Youtube which show in detail how I use my Sherline machines to make micro serial parts. I apologize for the delay, but that is because of the delay in getting everything I need here in Brazil. I thank the group moderator for permitting the space for my photos and also the respect and affection that I receive from members. (Sorry for my English.) To all, my thanks. Luiz Ally ------- NOTE TO FILE: Luiz actually has pretty good English, and his helpful videos are an inspiration as to how much can be accomplished on small format machines. Some very useful mods. Thank you. ------- Machine Mounted Tachometer with SFM or SMM [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "danmauch" dmauchx~xxseanet.com Date: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:59 am ((PDT)) As you probably know the Sherline does not display the RPM with their varaible speed controller. So you have to guess if you want to know the exact RPM especially if you are using different pulley ratios. It is also annoying to have to raise the belt guard to see where the belt is installed on the pulleys. This microcontroller based high tech tachometer eliminates that problem. With the use a reflective optical sensors no special code wheel is required. Just a piece of reflective tape place on the outer diameter of a rotating pulley or spindle is needed for the tachometer to read the RPM. With the shiny pulley on a Sherline all you need to do is to use a piece of black tape. With the press of a button you can also select common diameters of the cutter or stock and then read the Surface Feet per Minute (SFM) or, if you selected the metric option, Surface Meters per minute. (SFM and SMM are different units.) Additionally, this tachometer can help spot problems like a drop in RPM as a cutter gets dull. But wait there's more. This little tachometer works like a charm on machines equipped with speed controls that don't have a tachometer output. No need to estimate the RPM. You can now read the actual speed. Last the unit is battery powered. The circuitry draws so little current that the batteries should last at least 1 year. There is no wall wart required to power this gem. Just four AAA batteries. With the display panel mounted on the machine there is no looking for one of those handheld tachs. Contact me off line at dmauchx~xxcamtronics-cnc.com if interested. Dan Mauch www.camtronics-cnc.com low cost cases for Gecko drivers. Discounted prices on the G540 and other Gecko products ------- Re: chip control [taigtools] Posted by: "mrehmus" editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com Date: Thu Oct 7, 2010 10:44 am ((PDT)) I put my Sherline lathe and mill in those plastic boxes they sell in Walmart for storage, etc. The lathe is in a box that is about 8 inches deep, maybe a bit more. The mill is in one that is more than 14 inches deep. I need open tops so I can use a video camera when I make training tapes. The translucent white boxes are ideal for this as they add no false colors to the video image. I then heated an old blade and cut access holes in the plastic walls of the boxes to allow me to operate the controls. The tailstock end can be very open...I removed the entire tailstock end of the box for the lathe. I then cut a hole in the lid so the Sherline motor controller could stick through and now I have a good dust cover. Put the box on a piece of non-skid rubber so it won't skid around. It takes just a few minutes to clean up with a small shop vacuum when I'm done. I have a Taig CNC Mill that I inherited and it too will go in a plastic box when I get that set up. ------- Re: chip control Posted by: "mrehmus" editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com Date: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:22 pm ((PDT)) I posted the images of the lathe and mill in Wal-Mart plastic storage boxes. The album is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/photos/album/353400071/pic/list "Machines in Boxes" I put these in the boxes so I wouldn't have to always be chasing swarf as I make training videos about the machine tools. A little 1 gallon shop vacuum makes short work of the clean up job. The lathe is on a MDF shelf with rubber feet under the shelf and sitting directly on the plastic box. If I would have thought out the setup a bit better, instead of cutting the front of the box away, I would have made a vertical cut in the side at the tailstock end of the headstock and just cut the tailstock end of the box away. Then I would have heated the front of the box in a horizontal line from the bottom of the headstock-end cut to the tailstock end and bent it out at about 40 degrees. This would have kept even more swarf off the floor. The mill is mounted with screws through the box bottom and into a piece of plywood. The plywood is on a rubber mat to prevent it from sliding. I made a small hole for the Y handwheel and made a u-shaped cut in the right front side and heated and bent the resulting 'door' in at about 45 degrees. This give me enough room to stick my arm in and run the X handwheel. The Z-axis handwheel is suffiently above the box edges to not require any modifications to the box. I used translucent boxes so I can light from any direction if I need it for the video. I had considered a modified fish tank for these tools and may, in fact, use one for the Taig CNC mill if I cannot obtain a large enough one from Wal-Mart. These are not perfect solutions but after cleaning up during the making of my Sherline lathe video, I find this quite good enough. -------- How does Sherline DRO work? [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "MartyS" marty.swartzx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 7:56 am ((PST)) I currently have a manual 5400 mill, and I've noticed some Sherline DRO kits coming up on eBay. I'm the curious type that always needs to know how a thing works, and I see that this kit has some kind of collar that sits behind the handwheel. Is there an encoder in there, or am I just guessing wrong. Has anybody had particularly good or particularly bad experience with this kit? (Yes, I realize that I will bypass all of this DRO stuff if I step up to a CNC-ready Sherline.) Thanks in advance for any insights. ------- Re: How does Sherline DRO work? Posted by: "a3sigma" dcclark111x~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 8:25 am ((PST)) It works fine, for what it is. I have both CNC and DRO, like and use them both. I do both manual and CNC machining on the same equipment, and would not like to give up either capability. In addition, I zero my DROs whenever I home my CNC and this gives me a check reference and an easy return to start if a program fails or some other problem occurs. What it is, that needs to be kept in mind, is simply an encoder on the handwheel. It should be thought of as nothing other than another way to read the handwheel position, with the advantage of being easier to read, can be reset anytime, and no need to count turns. Here's how: http://www.sherline.com/DROonCNC.pdf David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA ------- Re: How does Sherline DRO work? Posted by: "Scott Meyer" baldysmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 8:46 am ((PST)) One shortcoming is that it counts the movement of the handwheel, not the table. So there is still a problem of backlash that the DRO does nothing to compensate for. That being said, it's certainly a worthwhile upgrade. ------- Re: How does Sherline DRO work? Posted by: "Lee" LeeFairfieldx~xxHotmail.com Date: Wed Dec 8, 2010 7:14 pm ((PST)) The Sherline DRO includes the ability to set the backlash amount for each axis. I have both the DRO and the CNC and use both. Sometimes it is just faster to use the DRO for a simple cut. ------- Re: 2010 column swung to the left when profiling [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "Marcus" marcusx~xximplant-mechanix.com Date: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:18 am ((PST)) Original Message From: "Kevin Martin" Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 > So far I have not overcome the problem. I have a 5400-style column base which is what I normally use. I have a couple of ideas for improving the 2000 column base but first I want to be be able to quantify the problem: Exactly how much force *does* it take to shift the column? This will give me a benchmark to test any improvements against. Kevin Martin < Hi Kevin: In your shoes, I'd give up the notion of overinvestigating the problem and go straight to the best solution I've found for this: Bolt the machine to the table. Next, make a bracket that goes onto the top of the vertical column (not the round column, the dovetail column.) Bolt a pair of 3/4" x 1 1/2" aluminum bars to this column and run them down to the table at about 20 degrees from the vertical or so and spread them so they're about 18" apart at the base. Bolt them to the table too. This gives up the tilting, nodding and swiveling capability of the machine, but greatly improves its stiffness. I have a Bridgeport clone, and I do a lot of complex milling on it. I tip the head maybe a couple of times a year. I also have a couple of VMC's (a Haas and a Defiance) and I can make almost anything with no tilting head capability on those machines either. In my opinion, the tilting nodding head thing is hugely overrated...rigidity and a decent swiveling angle plate or sine plate are far more useful, especially if the machine has been converted to CNC. One of my buddies used to run a Sherline 2000 (I had a 5400) and when we did this mod to it, it became MUCH more of a machine and much less of a toy. I think he dismantled the outriggers once in ten years to do a job he just couldn't do any other way. Took him all of 5 minutes or so to pull off the outriggers and maybe half an hour to tram the mill back in afterward and re-mount the outriggers. Cheers Marcus www.implant-mechanix.com ------- Re: ER holder project [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "timgoldstein" timgx~xxktmarketing.com Date: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:24 am ((PST)) "Joe Rhys Fastiggi" wrote: > How hard would it be to make an ER holder that could > attach directly to the spindle. You can just buy one from us: www.a2zcorp.us/store/SearchDisplay.asp?Keyword=1045ER-T We get then from Taig so it will take a very slight modification to take a little off the shoulder so the threads are closer to the end. Just put a 3/8" rod into your chuck and using a 3/8" ER16 collet, secure the adapter to the rod. Now face off the little bit needed. Job done. We sell them at $25.60 which is a discount from the retail like we offer on all Taig items. Tim Goldstein A2Z Corp A2Z CNC division 3955 S Mariposa St Englewood CO 80110 720 833-9300 Toll Free 877 754-7465 www.A2ZCorp.us/store USA made accessories for desktop mills & lathes. Specialized No Mar tools for the jewelry industry. ------- Re: ER holder project Posted by: "Eric" buckeyevsx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:57 pm ((PST)) I have made one out of a blank from A2ZCNC. It wasn't difficult for me to do because I already had an ER-16 collet chuck. I just mounted it in a four jaw in the lathe turning true and used it's taper to set my compound slide angle. From there is was just boring on that angle and cutting the threads. I would think aluminum will be too easily damaged to be of any lasting use. ------- Sherline spindle MT1 or ER16? [sherline] Posted by: "Steve" stewanx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Mar 3, 2011 2:40 am ((PST)) Hi Sherline Buddies, I shall be renewing my lathe spindle MT1 headstock with a new one after using it for past 15 years. But I noticed that Sherline is selling ER16 spindle headstock. Will it fit into old Sherline collets with ER16 spindle? Other than price difference, why ER16 over MT1? Steve-S'pore ------- Re: Sherline spindle MT1 or ER16? Posted by: "Tang Kee" tang_keex~xxme.com Date: Thu Mar 3, 2011 5:27 am ((PST)) Hi steve, ER16 spindle accepts ER16 collet and nut. It is not compatible with MT1 taper. ER type collet has at least one advantage that I am aware of which is its ability to extract the collet without the need to hammer like MT1 collet does. I am sure they are other advantages of using ER collet, but the ease of removal is sufficient reason for me to make the switch. Regards, Tang Kee ------- Re: Sherline spindle MT1 or ER16? Posted by: "wongsterwish" wongsterwishx~xxyahoo.com.sg Date: Thu Mar 3, 2011 5:53 am ((PST)) Steve, Terence and myself made the move 2 to 3 weeks back. I was using the MT1 to ER16 spindle prior to the purchase of the ER16 headstock. You'll only need a set (of 10 pieces) to cover the entire range of shank sizes, imperial included. Say I want to use an endmill with 1/4" shank, I can use the 7mm collet to hold the shank. There are, of course imperial collets (I've a set). Got all my collets from CTC Tools (Hong Kong company). The other advantage, as mentioned by Tang Kee, is no more hammering on the drawbar to release the taper. Regards, Wong ------- Re: Sherline spindle MT1 or ER16? Posted by: "Adam Collins" rxforspeedx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Mar 3, 2011 7:34 am ((PST)) I've got a Sherline ER16 spindle, headstock, motor, and controller on my Taig mill now and I can say that all the A2Z endmill holders, blank arbors, and M22x1.5 internally threaded tooling and accessories I've made for the Taig ER16 spindle fit perfectly on the Sherline version. Another benefit is the 1/32" (appx 1mm) range of each collet, and there are even 13/32" collets available for drill shank sizes slightly larger than 3/8". Quality collets are a must for precision work -- I'd check out www.maritool.com for them in the US but I'm not sure where you Singapore guys could find them locally (or at least a bit closer). Adam Collins ------- Re: Sherline spindle MT1 or ER16? Posted by: "markotime" markotimex~xxshaw.ca Date: Thu Mar 3, 2011 7:52 am ((PST)) ER allow you to feed long stock thru the headstock. mark ------- Re: Sherline spindle MT1 or ER16? Posted by: "JERRY G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Mar 3, 2011 9:58 am ((PST)) Which can be very dangerous due to whipping..... Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Sherline spindle MT1 or ER16? Posted by: "Pete & Pam Boorum" smallifex~xxmyfairpoint.net Date: Thu Mar 3, 2011 8:59 am ((PST)) If you ever turn odd things like wood dowels that run over or under size the ER 16 collet has enough range to hold them all without changing collets to fit every piece. Pete Pam & Pete Boorum, Smaller Than Life IGMA Artisans 79 Sebbins Pond Drive, Bedford, NH 03110 http://www.smallerthanlife.com ------- Re: Sherline spindle MT1 or ER16? Posted by: "Adam Collins" rxforspeedx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Mar 3, 2011 5:49 pm ((PST)) Steve Wan wrote: > What's the biggest dia the ER16 spindle can hold through the thru > hole? Whereas spindle MT1 max thru hole is 10mm. Steve: The bore on Sherline's ER16 spindle is the same as their 3/4-16 spindle: 0.406". I just checked mine with calipers and compared that to a Sherline lathe diagram hanging above my 4400. Adam ------- Re: Sherline spindle MT1 or ER16? Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Thu Mar 3, 2011 9:34 pm ((PST)) Over the past 6 months, I have developed a special tool set that allows the end user to gently and easily press out the current spindle of any Sherline headstock and easily press in a new ER-16 spindle, as well as any original MT1 spindle. One of my customers just received the kit, this afternoon. By early this evening, he had completed the replacement in less than an hour. I'd only install the ER16 spindle, if you have more than one head/mill stock. That way, you can still use all of the accessories that you have for each. Regards, Leo ------- Sheline mill top slide hardness?? [sherline] Posted by: "Ben" bens_groups2003x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:45 pm ((PDT)) Hello all, I have my new 2000 mill here and I have used it for only a few weekends, to make some toolholders. I know is is made of Aluminium and I am sooo careful with cleaning the chips away etc but I just noticed last night that there are heaps of dents and dings on the top of the top slide already. I looks like the slide was hit with something in places. How utterly disapointing:-( I am assuming that it is because of the mill vice and indexing attachments clamping down onto the bed? I am not sure though. Is this normal to happen and is there something I can do to prevent this from happening? Best regards Ben ------- Re: Sheline mill top slide hardness?? Posted by: "JERRY G" chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:57 pm ((PDT)) Hi Ben, the aluminum is anodized, but that does not mean a hardened surface. I use strips of shim stock under any of the Sherline clips and/or clamps to prevent such damage..... Welcome aboard, Jerry G (Glickstein) P.S. I suggest you use a mill tooling plate ( P/N 3560 $ 60.00) to protect the mill table. ------- Re: Sheline mill top slide hardness?? Posted by: "Fox Charles" cafox513x~xxverizon.net Date: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:04 pm ((PDT)) I have dug minor dents into the channels on my mill table; only had one ding on the top surface, and that was handled with stone pretty easily. ------- Re: Sheline mill top slide hardness?? Posted by: "Steve Wan" stewanx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:29 pm ((PDT)) Hi Ben: Having dents and scratches on aluminium plates arenormal. You can use the mill tooling plate as what Jerry suggested or add strips of aluminium 3mm thick along the tee slots by c'sunk screws which I did a long time ago. Then I was not aware of milling plates. Steve-S'pore ------- Re: Sheline mill top slide hardness?? Posted by: "Ben" bens_groups2003x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:35 pm ((PDT)) Hello, I have been eyeing that milling plate but haven't ordered it yet as I am not sure how useful it is. It does not have the slots for the T nuts so I can't see how one would attach and adjust the accessories like the vice, etc. Come to think of it, a steel plate with tooling slots would be a great accessory in my opinion. Then again, maybe a new topslide every 2 years or so is not unreasonable? Dunno, Regards Ben ------- Re: Sheline mill top slide hardness?? Posted by: "Steve Wan" stewanx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:45 pm ((PDT)) Hi Ben: Or just follow my steps placing aluminium strips along the surfaces, yet the tee slots are not affected at all. If one need to change simply unscrew it for a new strip. But you have to make the strips yourself. Steve-S'pore [later messages] 3mm thin strip of 2 narrows and a wide one but I half all the strips in order to prevent distortion. Narrow strips using only 3 countersunk screws while the other wide one is using 4 on offset positions. Ensure c'sunk head is 0.01mm lower the surface. [C'sunk with head above and thread into the machine table.] I did not flycut the surface as I'm not machining 20 micron jobs. Anyway the 3mm plate is relatively ftat throughout. I added a thin paste of silicone rubber to waterproof the gap from coolant. I used aluminium as it will not rust like steel though steel is harder. Steve-S'pore ------- Re: Sheline mill top slide hardness?? Posted by: "Thomas A Trikalinos" ttrikalinx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:55 am ((PDT)) I can see why you would have scratches, but not why you would have dents. Are you dropping stuff on the table? IMHO a scratch or two adds character. If you have dents, take a machinist's scraper to remove the raised lip so that it's no taller than the table. I have used the mill quite a bit, not even consistently using brass shims below clamps, and the table is in excellent functional condition, and in very good aesthetic condition. just my $0.02. It took me some time to get over the compulsiveness of having the mill unscratched. Since then I use it and enjoy it much more. I do enjoy having it well trammed and accurately set up through. take care, tom ------- Re: Sheline mill top slide hardness?? Posted by: "mileagemayvary" gizmomakerx~xxbigpond.com Date: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:38 pm ((PDT)) My mill is pretty old now. It is hardly ever operated without a tooling plate. A tooling plate is almost as essential as a chuck. There are hardly any marks on the mill's table after all this time. The idea of a tooling plate is to just whack in more mounting holes WHEREVER you want them for whatever device or home made jig you want to mount. The plate is adjustable lengthways, and also can be flipped end to end where you can put in even more holes! You would consider the plate as an expendable item to be exchanged whenever it gets riddled with holes. The Sherline plate is highly recommended because it is cast and is less prone to warping such as a home made, or steel plate. Another advantage with a plate is if you are doing some nerve wracking operation with a chance of the tool gouging the surface... meh... just let it happen, no big deal. This lets you finish stuff much faster. Rob ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following message is the start of a much longer conversation about making T-slots and dovetails that has been placed in the file called "Milling Tips". It was placed there as much of the advice is generic and applicable to any milling machine. ------- Re: How do I machine a T-slots and dovetails? [sherline] Posted by: "Grif" kgriffitx~xxwolfenet.com Date: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:37 am ((PDT)) Don't forget, for T-slots, something that was really popular years ago, just mill the slot, and overlap it on top with strips to form the "T" and the surface of the table. Lots of screws, but no undercuts, just end mill work. ------- Looking to upgrade [sherline] Posted by: "holry7778" jasonlreisx~xxhotmail.com Date: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:59 am ((PDT)) Hey all, I finally have a little fun money from doing some side work. So I'm looking at getting a dedicated x-y base versus using just my lathe base with the Z-column add-on. So I went to the sherline direct page and looked at the (5401) 12" deluxe and notice that they now have an option for an oiler. Is this option worth the $25? I tried looking for info on sherline's website but didn't find any. Anyone have any insight? TIA, Jason ------- Re: Looking to upgrade Posted by: "ransome michasiow" ransome_dukex~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:25 am ((PDT)) Hopefully the link works. GO to: http://www.sherline.com/Oiler.htm The following copied from their website - mostly for CNC machines " The Sherline mill saddle oiler now maintains a reservoir of lubricating oil that bathes the X and Y leadscrews, reducing the number of times the operator must attend to oiling duties. Just keep the reservoir topped up and the leadscrews will never run dry. What is good for a CNC machine is also good for a manual machine, so the new oiler will be available as an option on manual machines. Once supplies of the old non-oiling saddles are exhausted, the new oiling system will be a standard feature on both CNC and manul mills. Additional labor involved in drilling and tapping the passages and the cost of the reservoir and cap necessitate a $25.00 price increase for mills benefiting from this feature. Ransome ------- Re: Looking to upgrade Posted by: "Mikey D" mikeydx~xxsuddenlink.net Date: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:35 am ((PDT)) I wonder if this will be available to retrofit? I know I don't keep mine as oiled as I should. ------- Re: Looking to upgrade Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:15 am ((PDT)) Hi Mikey. See the note at the bottom of this page. You can buy a new saddle from Sherline with the feature included and fit it yourself or pay them to do it. http://www.sherline.com/Oiler.htm Or I suppose you could make your own system like this guy has: http://rchelipilot.wordpress.com/sherline-mill-x-y-axis-lead screw-oil-lines/ Martin ------- Seems many sherline owners dont add dust/chip shield? [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "t3oterpc9191y" t3oterpc9191yx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:53 pm ((PDT)) I've noticed a lot of sherline owners don't add a chip/dust shield to protect their acme threaded rods or the linear stage rail surfaces? Wouldn't dust or chips get in and eventually wear down the machine faster? Maybe it's not a problem for big chips since the tolerance may be good enough to naturally evaculate the chip so it won't get sandwiched in and cause damage to the critical surfaces, but sometimes you get find dust like particles, especially if you are using very slow feed rates and small steps during milling. ------- Re: Seems many sherline owners dont add dust/chip shield? Posted by: "Andy M" trumpy81x~xxoptusnet.com.au Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:19 pm ((PDT)) GDay All, t3oterpc9191y what is your name? If you only machine 'dry' and don't use any form of liquids while machining then it is acceptable to leave the Sherline mill as is. However, I would recommend using a shop vacuum cleaner to clear the chips as they are made. If you use any sort of lubrication while cutting then I thoroughly recommend adding some sort of protection, especially since I pulled my mill apart to add the A2Z precision leadscrew kit. I found chips in places I never imagined, not to mention a lot of dry and sticky WD-40 when I removed the Y-Axis saddle. Mind you it has been some time since I did any real machining on the mill due to illness, but I was still shocked at what I found. So a good way cover is essential in my opinion. Fortunately, the Sherline is pretty tough, no damage was found other than some light scuffing and missing anodizing, which seems to have peeled off like paint. Regards Andy M ------- Re: Seems many sherline owners dont add dust/chip shield? Posted by: "aluminum0101" t3oterpc9191yx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:06 am ((PDT)) Oh, my name's Jack. But my username based on the email is kinda wierd for forum use anyway. Perhaps terminology. I mean the leadscrews and the slides (contact surfaces that undergo relative motion). Yeah the first thing I added on the mill was the paper dust covers but it looks pretty ugly as far as that goes, but I'll definitely make a better one in the future. Sherline should add that by default or provide that as an upgrade option. To me it seems pretty important. It helps to prevent even household dust that can settle and clog things up too. ------- Re: Seems many sherline owners dont add dust/chip shield? Posted by: "aluminum0101" t3oterpc9191yx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:01 am ((PDT)) Thanks guy. I've added something similar recently, but it is definitely more sketchy looking than I'd prefer. It is also made out of paper so it is no good with oil. Actually I just tried my first milling with cutting oil and its also affecting the dust cover already since it soaks the oil all up and will become all soft over time. I plan on doing a better quality version later once I settle down with the mill. I saw a nice way of making it will be to cut out many of the pieces of the cover cross-sections and then glue the tips to each other to make the cover (as opposed to making folds on a continuous sheet). Alternatively, a metal slide that can be extended may be a good way to make a dust cover also, like those large scale CNC machines use. ------- Re: Seems many sherline owners dont add dust/chip shield? Posted by: "aykut.canturkx~xxgmail.com" Date: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 pm ((PDT)) I made it by folding A4 paper as in youtube (search leadscrew cover). Of course grease and other dirt turns white paper to black. Now I use skin of my wife's handbag as accordion dust cover. Only difference is I didn't fold it as it becomes very thick, I glued pieces together. (If she notices the handbag is gone, this could be my last message J) My experience says that some dust is good. Every time I clean my mill backlash increases. My first router that I did from wood had almost no backlash. I noticed that grease plus wood sawdust is perfect backlash eliminator. I try to avoid metal dust of course. ------- Re: CNC Upgrade [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "Andy M" trumpy81x~xxoptusnet.com.au Date: Mon Mar 5, 2012 3:04 am ((PST)) Thomas wrote: > I have a Sherline 4400 Lathe and 2000 Mill, both with DRO. > I am inexperienced. I keep making too big cuts, wrong cuts, 'dead > headed' cuts, etc. I tried using G codes manually with the DRO and saw > considerable improvement. I made fewer mistakes when I turned the lead > screw right way and by the right amount. > I want to upgrade to CNC, using my computer. I plan to install Linux > RTI. I can handle the software. > Are the Sherline kits complete? > I discussed this with David Rutherford at a2zcorp and he recommended I > change the lead screws to 4tpi when using micro step stepper motors. Are > the Sherline kits using micro step motors? > David said, "The leadscrews and anti-lash system is upgraded to a Kerk > Precision kit with a self-adjusting anti-lash nut. The saddle is > designed to accommodate a larger diameter leadscrew and we coat the wear > surfaces with turcite (a self-lubricating material used on high end > machine tool ways and gibs) that provides much smoother operation than > metal against metal which you currently have." > Would this result in a better system? Tom Dean GDay All, Tom, If the only reason you are considering CNC is your difficulty in achieving the desired dimensions then I would probably not advise it. At least until you gain more experience. There are just as many gotcha's with CNC as there are with manual operation. CNC alone will not improve things, as I have found with my CNC Sherline 5410 and 4410, although it will make turning the handles much more easy and make complex shapes more easy. Being a novice myself, I expected CNC to solve many problems I had envisaged when using my machines manually, as you have mentioned, however, this has not always been the case. In some instances, I have had better success using my machines manually rather than relying on CNC, in terms of precision fitting of shafts and bearings etc. This has been largely due to my inexperience rather than a problem with the machines or CNC for that matter, but I hope it shows that CNC is not the be all, end all. It still takes considerable skill to achieve precision, something that I lack at this point. I have added the A2Z precision leadscrews and the extended Y-Axis to my 5410 recently, but as yet, I still have not used them in anger. My first impressions are that they definitely make the machine much more smooth in operation and hopefully, a little more precise. I had hoped to do some testing of the actual precision of my mill but a faulty servo driver board and an ongoing health problem have kept me from doing so. The replacement driver board arrived today, so hopefully I will get a chance to install it and finish up some testing at least. The Sherline conversion kits are complete or you can purchase the needed parts as you progress. I believe that the Sherline motors are micro-stepping. There are a number of options available besides the Sherline offerings for CNC though. IMService offer a servo system for the Sherline (I am using these) but there are many turn key and DIY stepper motor solutions out there too. Check out Homann Designs, Soigeneris, CNC4PC, HobbyCNC, Gecko, Kelling Inc. and many others for components. HTH Regards Andy M ------- Re: CNC Upgrade Posted by: "Dan Putman" danx~xxblintzer.com Date: Mon Mar 5, 2012 10:31 am ((PST)) If you plan to use Linux, then Use the Linux.org EMC Ubuntu Distribution. The Distribution uses the real time kernel. Last I looked Sherline was using Ubuntu 8.04 and EMC. I think Linux.org is Distributing Ubuntu 10.4 currently. Sherline routinely ships the parts for upgrading their Mills and Lathes to CNC. Call Sherline and ask to speak to Fred Schmittle. I can't tell from your post whether you have steppers, couplings and motor mounts already installed. If so then you already have most of the CNC parts. Fred will help you sort out what you need. The only thing I would do differently than the standard Sherline package is I would use a Gecko 540 Bipolar Stepper driver and a higher voltage Power supply than the unipolar stepper driver and the 24 volt power supply that Sherline sells. There is nothing wrong with what Sherline sells; they provide good value for the money. The Gecko with a higher voltage power supply will run faster, and can drive more powerful motors, it is also a 10 microstep Driver, Sherline is 4 microsteps. When all is said and done, both systems are around $600 with power supply. The Gecko and its power supply need an enclosure at about $50 if you make it, about $200 if you buy a custom enclosure. Best, Dan ------- Stiffening the Z Column [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "kungfumachinist" kungfumachinistx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:58 pm ((PDT)) Hello all, I'm building a new workstation for my 5000 CNC mill. I have this idea for stiffening the Z column. I'll make a secondary column behind or to the side of the machine out of 1 1/4" galvanized pipe with a floor flange. Both mill and pipe column will be secured to a rigid work surface, in this case a Corian solid-surface countertop. The tops of the columns will be connected with a 3/16" aluminum plate (using over-long bolts through the stepper motor mount). I'd just like to ask if anyone thinks this is a bad idea, not specifically the technique I'm using but if I succeed in stiffening the Z column will other parts wear out faster, like the spindle bearings? FWIW I mostly work in plastic and aluminum and I don't plan to take heavier cuts just because the Z column is stiffer. I would say I'm pretty conservative cutting aluminum. Thanks Daryl ------- Re: Stiffening the Z Column Posted by: "Calvin Witt" calvino.rcx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:08 pm ((PDT)) I have my machine setup as a horizontal mill so the Z is now the Y axis and I'm experiencing flex also... my idea was to #1 offset the Z axis screw so I can run a better anti-backlash nut (the 3/8" thread is nice, if a bit overkill...) and have the screw run on the side. Not as pretty, just as effective. I would machine (or grind, or both) the back of the Z column smooth and bolt that to a ground and squared up piece of box tubing... and voila! stronger column, it's still an idea but I know I'm not the only person who wants to have something a little stiffer! One other thing that helps is a nice plate (preferably steel) that you can bolt the machine to, to help absorb vibrations! Calvin ------- NOTE TO FILE: The idea of stiffening the Z column is one I've also been considering. I have seen pix long ago of folks using an angled support, running up to the top end of the Z column from behind -- both mill and brace are attached to a single heavy base. I believe some such systems used a threaded brace that could be adjusted to also tweak the verticality of the column. Any such design should take into consideration a future need to access the underside of the mill to clean or maintain the X leadscrew. ------- Basic Sherline is fine? [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "Mike Bauers" mwbauers55x~xxwi.rr.com Date: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:52 am ((PDT)) I've been wanting a Sherline CNC for a long time and finally can plop down the funds for one. I have a manual deluxe Sherline and would like to add the CNC version. I feel I have more than enough projects to merit getting the CNC version. But I see many folks using customized Sherlines and I wonder how the stock Sherline compares. I expect to be working in aluminum and hard plastics. I plan to ease into some 3d machining of model railroad car and prime mover body parts. For the most part, I expect to do steamer drivers, detailed steamer chassis, trolley and other doodlebug power chassis, and likely various power drives for relatively tiny speeders. I understand that the Deluxe Sherline CNC will be a large enough work envelope for my needs and the included software will work from my CAD output. Is there anything beyond the Sherline servos(?) and software that I would need to replace, in terms of what of the Sherline package really needs to be replaced with better? Perhaps better phrased as what of the Sherline Deluxe CNC Mill needs to be upgraded? Thanks, Mike Bauers ------- Re: Basic Sherline is fine? Posted by: "EngFromSantaClara" ldmillerx~xxastound.net Date: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:16 am ((PDT)) I have been using the stock Sherline CNC setup for over two years now. Absolutely no problems. The whole drive is "right-sized" for the machine frames. I use EMC2 (Now LinuxCNC). Many want to "hot rod" the drives. In my observation that just leads to problems. Larry Miller ------- mounting boards [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "Codrut Popescu" codrut.popescux~xxme.com Date: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:39 pm ((PDT)) Hi, Sherline is recommending to mount the 4400 series lathe on a 10x36 inch wood board and the 2000 series mill on a 10x12 inch wood board with rubber feet attached. Anyone using a different setup? What do you recommend? Thanks, Codrut ------- Re: mounting boards Posted by: "Tom Wade" tomx~xxwade.name Date: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:59 pm ((PDT)) I made my board for the mill a bit bigger, to accomodate an enclosure. In my area, there is right down the street from me, a shop which manufactures kitchen counter tops. They sell me sink cutouts for about $1 each. If there are kitchen counter tops in your area, there is probably someone who makes counter tops. I also recommend drilling large access holes, perhaps 1.25" through the board to let you access the four bolts which hold the upright column on the mill to the base. Lets you work on alignment without removing the mill from the base. Tom Wade ------- Re: mounting boards Posted by: "Terry Wellman" scmodelworksx~xxillicom.net Date: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:05 pm ((PDT)) My 4400 lathe and servos are on a piece of .75" baltic birch plywood plank. Not to much flex on that. My 2000 mill started that way until I upgraded with A2Z X and Y axes. The mill is now on a piece of 1.5" corian. It's very solid too. You might stop by a cabinet shop that does corian counter tops and see if they have any large sink cut outs. Have fun, Terry Wellman ------- Re: mounting boards Posted by: "henpecked_too" devnull2x~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:21 am ((PDT)) I covered the top of my mounting board with a 1/16" steel plate and then mounted my #4400 lathe. I also ran a shallow fence along the front edge of the board. The steel plate allows me to attach indicators an other devices at convenient locations using magnetic bases. The front-to-back dimension on the mounting board was also increased to provide more surface area for magnetic bases. The fence keeps small tools and other objects from rolling off the base and falling on the floor - for some reason, by habit, I always put stuff on the mounting board when I am working. harry ------- Sherline Lathe Tailstock Locking Lever [SherlineCNC] Posted by: dtbarberx~xxsti.net danieltbarber Date: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:22 am ((PST)) If you are like me, you find it inconvenient to have to use an Allen wrench to lock and release the tailstock on a Sherline lathe. Four photos in album "Sherline Lathe Tailstock Locking Lever illustrate my approach to solving the problem. The main components are a custom 10-32 screw which replaces the standard 10-32 SHS and a lever assembly. As illustrated in the photos, the top of the custom screw is tapped to receive an 8-32 SHS. The lever assembly is drilled to the body diameter of the 8-32 SHS. When assembled and the 8-32 SHS is loose, the lever assembly pivots on top of the custom 10-32 screw. When assembled and the 8-32 SHS is tight, the friction fit is sufficient to lock and release the tailstock. Install the assembly on the tailstock and tighten the 8-32 SHS sufficiently to provide enough friction to turn the custom screw until the tailstock is locked, but loose enough for the lever to be repositioned as necessary. This step is actually a series of tighten and release until the tailstock is locked. Once the tailstock is locked, move the lever to a position of about 280 degrees and firmly tighten the 8-32 screw. The objective here is to find a position where the lever is where you like it when locked and yet provides sufficient travel to release the tailstock. As a small detail, the lever body and shaft are mated via 10-32 threads. The knurled knob is turned finger tight to lock the lever shaft and body to the 8-32 SHS. Dan ------- Re: New Sherline Saddle Oiler [SherlineCNC] Posted by: "Tom Wade" tomx~xxwade.name Date: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:28 am ((PDT)) On 8/14/2013 3:47 AM, PeterS wrote: > Would like to install The New Sherline Saddle Oiler to my older > Sherline CNC Mill. Where would I find the installation instructions > needed to upgrade the mill with the New Saddle? Your suggestions, > input & advice would be appreciated. Thank you very much! PS If memory serves me correctly, there is no way to install the new oiler in an old saddle. Only possibility is to buy a new saddle. Tom Wade ------- Re: New Sherline Saddle Oiler Posted by: "William Cox" wtcox_listx~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:00 am ((PDT)) I just had this discussion last week with Craig at Sherline. The conclusions are mine, based partially on what was discussed. The conclusion I came away with was that while one could modify the existing mill saddle for oil passages, it was risky (high precision part, be careful). There are several suggestions on the web. And $100 for a new saddle with the oiler is likely not worth it unless you're doing 4-8 hours at a stretch with no oiling stops. Thinking further, I'm going the A2Z route of checking the Sherline gibs for flatness, which sounds like a good idea anyway. See http://www.a2zcorp.us/LiteratureFiles/ModifySherline40980Gib.pdf . Haven't verified the flatness of mine yet. The A2Z recommendation is #2 way oil on the saddle and table dovetails; for manual milling (old 5000) I've been happy with the Sherline super lube grease in a thin coat on the ways. Don't know how well that would work for CNC though. bill cox ------- Re: New Sherline Saddle Oiler Posted by: "PeterS" pmark1x~xxverizon.net Date: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:22 pm ((PDT)) Hi Bill - Your input is appreciated. Rather than modify the existing mill saddle I purchased the New Saddle Oiler from Sherline. This requires that you use the original brass inserts & backlash screws, etc from the original saddle. You do not receive them, if I remember correctly. After you remove them you reinsert them on the Oiler Model. Keeping in mind that X & Y bushings are opposite threaded that is, left for Y & right hand for X if I got that? The A2Z mill plate has provisions for the Rotary Table & the table is dovetailed for the Sherline offset tailstock & lines up quite well. Of course you will have to tweek the RT to the Tailstock. Seems like essentially the CNC would gets its lubrication pretty consistent using the New Saddle as, I guess, the lubrication is there when called for. The manual mill is quite capable. Just a bit harder to lube the axis. The teflon grease is great. However - Just my opinion. Thank you! PS ------- Sherline dc motor Question [taigtools] Posted by: "Edmund" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:27 pm ((PDT)) Jeff, is it possible or has anyone done it, place a 3 way switch on the motor to give (forward, neutral, reverse) is it possible with the design, just interested as I am thinking of purchasing for my lathe. Edmund Alberta ------- Re: Sherline dc motor Question Posted by: "chuck" chuckelsx~xxverizon.net Date: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:44 pm ((PDT)) Edmund, yes you can use a DPDT (double pole/double throw) for changing direction of a dc motor. Just be sure the switch is rated for the current. Chuck ------- Re: Sherline dc motor Question Posted by: "chuck" chuckelsx~xxverizon.net Date: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:51 pm ((PDT)) Also it's best if you use the incoming AC switch as your "neutral/off" instead of switching the dc side while it's powered up. 2 reasons: it spikes the dc drive board if you disconnect the load under power, and it's hard on the switch contacts breaking a DC inductive load (motor). ------- Re: Sherline dc motor Question Posted by: "Manfred Vormbaum" manfredv1x~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:28 pm ((PDT)) Yes, but be very careful here, the switch needs to be rated for at least 90V DC (suggest at least twice that) at the maximum current that the motor power supply can supply. Note that this is DC rating is much more arduous than the AC rating that most switches have. The DC switch will be much larger (and expensive) than the AC version. Also, I would suggest that you put in a slow fuse in between the switch and the motor to stop stuff going up in flames if you flip the switch before the motor is totally at rest. Manfred ------- Re: Sherline dc motor Question Posted by: "chuck" chuckelsx~xxverizon.net Date: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:15 pm ((PDT)) Manfred, as I suggested, if you are not switching under load the rating is far less critical. It's the breaking of the dc under inductive load that is the problem. If he switches direction while the power is off, the common 115VAC 15A switch is more than sufficient. I have used these switches for years on 90V DC motors without issue. Chuck ------- Re: Sherline dc motor Question Posted by: "Jeffrey Birt" birt_jx~xxsoigeneris.com Date: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:52 pm ((PDT)) It is very possible, in fact Sherline has an application note on how to do so: http://www.sherline.com/reverse.htm You don't really need a 'neutral' as you can turn the built in power switch to the 'OFF' position for that. I do keep them in stock: http://www.soigeneris.com/sherline_motor_and_speed_control__33050-det ails.aspx Note for international shipments, this will fit in a USPS Medium Flat Rate box with a little room to spare for a few other small items. Jeff Birt Soigeneris.com ------- Re: Sherline dc motor Question Posted by: "LJG" yrralguthriex~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:58 pm ((PDT)) If you want neutral, then you need a DPDT with center off. Three position, but usually still called DPDT. Place power from DC supply to the center two terminals B and E. The wires that go to the motor on the outside terminals on either end Say A and D. Then cross wire to other end. Wire from A to F and another wire from D to C. Power goes to motor from A and D OR C and F. A B C D E F Again make sure the switch will handle the current. ONLY WORKS with DC motors. Some AC motors will also reverse, but using a different wiring arrangement. ------- NOTE TO FILE: This is a subject that typically goes on and on. To see further comments, check the archives in the taigtools group at Yahoo. ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following thread began with a question about milling stainless steel, but then changed to a discussion about beefing up Sherline machines. ------- Stainless on Sherline Mill [SherlineCNC] Posted by: x86Daddyx~xxgmail.com negative3kelvin Date: Mon Nov 4, 2013 6:32 pm ((PST)) I've gotten comfortable with Aluminum and wanted to try some work with stainless steel... I have some bars of 304, which I'm reading happens to be one of the harder ones (d'oh!). I'm trying to cut some jewelry- sized pieces using 1/16 end mills and having no luck, just busted end mills. Has anyone had any success with 304 on their Sherline, with small end mills? Any tips on flutes, speeds, feeds, and cutting fluid would be greatly appreciated! ------- Re: Stainless on Sherline Mill Posted by: "cnc sales (hanermo)" gcode.fix~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Nov 4, 2013 10:58 pm ((PST)) On a 7x not sherline, but doubt it matters - actually I know it does not. I routinely turn stainless 303, 304,316L and hardened steel. Llike hardened and tempered grade 12.9 (metric best grade) bolts. I never have any trouble with any of them. Stainless is not actually hard - its actually quite soft. And turns really nicely. So does drill rod. I use 7 degree positive carbide inserts - ccmt size 21.51. These are a good choice for little lathes, and larger ones when not doing production. Very forgiving, cheap, can be used to cut tiny cuts (although this wears the edge fast). I can take a sub 0.01 mm cut on my lathe (with modified x-axis to be very rigid). If it does not work your end mill is likely not the right one. 1.5 mm or 1/16 ... I would suggest about 3-5000 rpm with HSS and more with carbide. You can run carbide dry, no problem. ------- Re: Stainless on Sherline Mill Posted by: "jaques alverza" stbrnrd01x~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Nov 5, 2013 8:28 am ((PST)) ok, i'm by no means promoting or gaining in any way on this, but you did ask a very valid question... as for the feeds and speeds it's going to have to be manufacturer dependent that would have that info available (I have seen it listed on some of McMaster's end mills) but have a look at what "tryally tech" has done on some of his videos on y*utube, if it can be done on a sherline....he has done it. ------- Re: Stainless on Sherline Mill Posted by: "Mike Fleck" wardvandeusenx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Nov 5, 2013 10:23 am ((PST)) "(with modified x-axis to be very rigid)" I am interested in how you have modified the X axis to make it more rigid. I have been thinking about and wanting to do that. Right now I use a M30.1 Flashcut or what I believe would be M47 in Mach3 on my finish passes until no more material is being removed to try and get as much accuracy as I can. ------- Re: Stiffer x.axis (Stainless on Sherline Mill) Posted by: "cnc sales (hanermo)" gcode.fix~xxgmail.com hvenermo Date: Wed Nov 6, 2013 12:24 am ((PST)) Making an x-axis rigid on lathe - high end. The job took about 200 hours and 1000€. Took out acme screw. Replaced with much thicker ballscrew. The acme was (iirc) 14 mm thick. The ballscrew is 18 mm (3/4 inches, actually). This is about 3x more rigid. Rigidity of screws is on all manufacturers tables - how much force required to move one Newton. Also about the same ratio as max push force (rating) on the screw. The normal screws are supported at front end only. This means that the screw has a floppiness of length cubed. If length is 2, thats 2x2x2 = 8. If length is 1, that 1x1x1 = 1 or 8 times stiffer. I support the screw at both ends. This makes the max free length 1/2 of original design. I built an outdrive station, with secondary sets of bearings, and bolts that attach to the saddle. The bolts are 18 mm thick, two of, tool steel, and end in support plate of 125 mm diameter, 30 mm thick (it about 8 kg in mass). Now, I put the screw in tension. At the back of the screw there are two sets of opposing threads, one is used to tension the screw, and one is used to lock the screw to the current tension. This makes it about 2x as stiff as a standard screw (according to literature and specs from screw manufacturers). I then built a cover for the whole thing, from an old PC box. Finishing and painting took about half the time (100 hours) with 3 coats pant, sanding, 2 coats laquer (wont stain so fast). All steel parts were blackened with a kit, it a controlled rusting process. The end result it theoretically 3x8x2 = 48 times stiffer. Due to inaccuracies, and lack of perfect industrial processes, I call it 14x. The feel is about 20x more light. I can (but dont) use the gibs at VERY much stiffer setting with no effect whatsoever. The ballscrew is about 90% efficient - the (very good, industrial) acme screw was 30%. This also made the screw 3x more sensitive. The actual screw has a real world resolution much better than 1 micron. I am using 3Nm steppers at 1:3, for about 400 kg push on the screw, and 6000 (micro)steps / (5 mm, really 1/5 inch) turn for 0.8 micron step size. (ONLY) When stiction is not a factor, AND the force is very great in relation to the stiction force, microsteps to 10 are accurate. This is the case on my x-axis slide. Using a 1 micron digital indicator, I get reliable 1 micron movements from the slide at all times. Repetability is likely about 5 microns due to inaccuracies in manufacture. The job was about 7.5/10 difficult. The results exceeded my expectations. The end result is 10/10 - I wanted a 1 micron resolution lathe and got one. I needed to make the outside carriage plate, the 2 carriage bolts (250 mm long, 30 mm on thick end and 18 mm on long thinner end), 4 thrust bearings, and the ballscrew. The ballscrew needed 4 threads, 2 left hand ones. Turning a ballscrew is not hard with carbide inserts. I did this about 8 years ago when I was still learning. I am now redoing this with AC brushless servo motors, together with live tooling. At the time I am waiting for my second turret components to arrive, and will fit the second turret on the lathe. I am also changing the z axis to a grade 1 ground 32 mm ballscrew from an industrial turning center. Its good for a 40 hp machine, grin. I am also changing the lathe motor a an indexed servo spindle - and will likely use a precision low backlash (2 minutes of arc) planetary gearbox for the spindle. About 1:5 gearing, I think. This would allow turning at upto 600 rpm with the planetary, with no need for other transmission. At 5000 counts on encoder this would give 25.000 counts, and at 10.000 counts 50.000 counts/turn (just right). (I did this on a 12x industrial, a chester craftsman, but that wont matter). Capabilities will fully match an industrial live-tooling lathe, soon. I am also building 2 spindles for live tooling. Threading is not yet working - I am waiting to connect a new hardware motion controller, with industrial capacities. Costs are about 1/10 of industrial stuff, and I am building for production purposes/quality. Ie you can look up a Haas ST10 with C axis for a cost of comparable one. Ths big lathe is for using. I will also make a small 7x as a demonstrator, and expect to take it to several shows next spring. I also expect it will be on all sorts of web sites. I will make barfeeder capacities part of it. At the moment I have just received my 2 lathe collet lever chucks - a 3AT for an old lathe, and a 5C, both working secondhand versions from the US. When I see how they work on a dummy lathe, I will make an auto chuck for both lathes as well. I am building for industrial purposes with industrial quality. Thus I am willing to spend a reasonable amount of money as I know it will pay off. For a hobby use, when starting, I used a DC treadmill motor I converted to servo, for example. I have 3D renderings and pics of the x axis, and might put these up soon. Some work-work is interfering for a few days, unfortunately. ------- Modifying Brass bars on Steady rest [sherline] Posted by: "Donnie" zerodbx~xxbellsouth.net Date: Wed Jan 8, 2014 9:02 am ((PST)) I have seen on this group that someone modified their Steady Rest Brass bars with bearings on the end. Little more gentle on metal as the brass is not riding right on the metal. Maybe someone would come forward on this because I wish to do the same, but the problem is that I do not have a mill to do this. Is there another way of doing this or would someone be willing to mill these out for me depending on my own specs. The only thing I want done is the square milled opening is all. Making the hole for the pin to hold the bearing, I can do myself. I will offer the drawings of the milled area. Thanks Donnie ------- Re: Modifying Brass bars on Steady rest Posted by: "Andy M" trumpy81x~xxoptusnet.com.au Date: Wed Jan 8, 2014 9:35 am ((PST)) GDay Donnie, You will find some ready made 'fingers' with the bearings fitted on eBay. I bought a set for my lathe and they were cheap enough to make them viable. If you have a face plate then you should be able to machine them yourself. The easiest way to modify them is to simply drill and tap a mounting hole in the end of the fingers and then attach a suitable bearing. If you mount the fingers radially on the face plate, you can 'bore' a groove into one end. You may have to shorten the fingers a little if you don't have the riser blocks to raise the headstock and toolpost in order to provide enough clearance for the full size finger to clear the bed. You will need to make a special boring tool for the job too. But you could easily silver solder some HSS together in the correct configuration for the job. You could also use a file if you have the patience, brass files easily so it should not take too much time to do. Use a little talcum or candle wax on the file to make the task easier. A dremel tool and cutting disc could also be used. Just a few thoughts ;) Regards Andy M ------- Re: Modifying Brass bars on Steady rest Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Jan 8, 2014 12:25 pm ((PST)) Donnie. First, I would strongly suggest this modification in that it is highly efficient if properly executed. If you search the web, you will most likely find someone selling steady rest arms with a bearing screwed to the side of the arm. While the price may be attractive, I would again strongly suggest against this option or modification. In use with tension applied, many times the bearing surface will tip in one direction or another without support on both ends decreasing its effectiveness. Because the bearing outer race is hard, in some cases the edge of the race will roll a groove in the work piece depending on cutting load and work piece material. To resolve these issues, I would suggest machining a pocket in the end of the arm as I believe you are inquiring, that will supply bearing support on both sides of the bearing. An example of this can be seen in the photo section under "JerryK". The pocket and support holes are very easily machined in a Sherline Lathe. The 1/4" arm is mounted on top of a 1/8" shim in a standard lathe tool post per the second photo under "JerryK". An endmill of proper size is then mounted in the spindle for machining as also seen in the photo. The mounting holes can then be drilled using the same setup and by rotating the arm 90 degrees and changing position of the arm. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Modifying Brass bars on Steady rest Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Wed Jan 8, 2014 4:03 pm ((PST)) Hi Donnie, check out Jerry K's photo DSCN5940. The end mill is held in a collet. Not a 3 or 4 jaw chuck.* While you may do that, it is inherently better in a collet because collets run truer. Regards, Jerry G "(Glickstein) * = in a 4 jaw independent chuck you can "dial in" ( Dead Nuts ) ** **= a condition where the indicator needle of a DTI shows no deviation. ------- Re: Modifying Brass bars on Steady rest Posted by: "Steve Wan" stewanx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Jan 8, 2014 6:04 pm ((PST)) Hi Donnie, I find bearings for such a small steady is of little help. Just last week I made a steady with reference from my old Sherline steady. The only changes I made was to open up the holding capacity up to 50mm dia. and the whole structure would be in an enclosure rather open at open end. No cnc here, using a face plate to bore and vigorous hand filing. The base follows Sherline 55.5 deg. Hence, the 3 brass bars and end cap are re-used from the old steady. Yet to test the rigidity. Steve Wan ------- Re: Modifying Brass bars on Steady rest Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Wed Jan 8, 2014 7:27 pm ((PST)) Hey Chief, Happy new year to you and Henny also. At least the things that I have done over the years, have not required any kind of a spring load on a steady rest arm. However, you are certainly correct in that Endmills should be held in collets designed for that use. But in this case where only a small one time slot is being cut in brass, one should be able to sneak by with a three or four jaw chuck. Especially if no one is watching. Your Buddy ------- Re: Modifying Brass bars on Steady rest Posted by: "Ian Newman" ian_newx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 9, 2014 10:35 am ((PST)) Hi Donnie, Some further comment (and an alternative view) to the replies you have already received on this topic. First, what problems are you getting using conventional fingers on the steady rest? If you know the problem, then you can work out whether fitting rollers will solve the problem. On the issue of using roller fingers in a steady, I would not be in favour of using them for several reasons: 1) The rollers will tend to carry swarf round and press it in to the surface of the work piece. 2) The bearings will trap and accumulate swarf in the ball-races - which will suffer as a result. 3) The use of cutting fluid will tend to wash the lubrication out of the bearings. 4) I have worked with mills and lathes since the late 60's, and I have never seen a commercial lathe steady made with roller fingers - if you check the ones that are made by machine manufacturers, they tend to have the rollers very well shielded, for example see: http://www.ladner.fr/PBCPPlayer.asp?ID=954603 Regarding the "normal" fingers, there are two material usually used - hardened steel and brass/bronze (commercial steady rests often come with two sets of fingers, or have detatchable bronze tips to put over the hardened fingers). Hard fingers are used for supporting hard and well finished work pieces (e.g. finish turned, lapped or honed steel). The only effect of the fingers rubbing the work piece is to burnish the surface (which is exactly what the honing process would have done anyway). There is a risk of swarf getting trapped between the fingers and the work piece, but this is minimised by ensuring adequate flush lubrication and the intimate contact between the fingers and the work which tends to push the swarf away. Brass or bronze fingers are more suited to supporting soft material, and should not be used on steel - tiny fragments of steel swarf become embedded in the tip of the finger and then when the steady rest is used for supporting a soft work piece (brass, aluminium, etc) the steel fragments score the soft surface with catastrophic results. (It is the same reason that you should have two sets of files - one for brass and one for steel - and if a file has been used on steel, it should never be used on brass). A good example of this wear process can be seen in any old car engine - soft pistons wear a ridge in the harder bores, and the hard spindles of carburettor butterflies are worn away more quickly than the carb body material (and most carbs seem to be made out of low grade cheese....) If you are having problems with brass/bronze fingers scoring the work piece, you can use a file to dress the tips of the fingers to remove any embedded abrasive particles, or make a set of hardened fingers. File the fingers to shape from silver steel, then harden by heating to medium red (allowing time to "soak") and then quenching the tip to a distance of about 1/2 inch from the tip end. Quickly rub the tip with emery and allow the residual heat in the material to creep back to the tip. Quench again when a dark straw colour has reached to within about 1/2 inch of the tip and hold in the coolant until the finger body has cooled naturally. The tip will still be glass-hard, but the body will be soft enough to allow it to be held by the clamps and screws in the steady. All the best, Ian ------- Re: Modifying Brass bars on Steady rest Posted by: "ED MAISEY" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Jan 9, 2014 10:49 am ((PST)) Sometimes the old ways are the best, my 47 Drummond had hardened guides (tips). Edmund ------- My Relocation of the Sherline Chip Guard (photo album) [sherline] Posted by: "Donnie" zerodbx~xxbellsouth.net Date: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:35 am ((PST)) I have some photos posted in my Album: "Donnie D: Ships of Scale" I think I might have a contribution to the group!! (finally) I hope that some of you in the group approves of it. It's just a simple idea. I had some extra time today, and after turning a .75 / Steel - 303 with chips flying all over the place, I decided to dig out the Chip Guard that I bought from Sherline almost a year ago. **I never could figure out why the guard had to be mounted on the rear Spindle Bracket** When you were turning a long piece, that Chip Guard is stationary. Does little when you are turning something far removed from the Head Stock -- the guard is stationary. So today, I dug out that Chip Guard and thought that there has to be a way to mount this on the saddle / crossslide so as to have a "Follower Chip Guard". No Modifications necessary! All I did was use a low profile T-Nut and just reverse the way it would normally be mounted. Therefore, I now have a Chip Guard that "follows" the cut and keeps chips from flying on you. Just be VERY mindful to make sure that you have adequate clearance so that when you are moving the cross slide forwards and aft, to make sure the guard clears the Chuck when you are moving in that close to the Head Stock end. See my photos that I have posted in "Donnie D: Ships of Scale" I hope someone can use this idea. I am sure that someone has already posted an idea like this or maybe even better. But, I am just trying to contribute to the group, since I still consider myself novice. Thanks Donnie Driskell Ships of Scale www.shipsofscale.com/phpBB3/ ------- Vanda-Lay duplicator for Sherline lathe [sherline] Posted by: catopowerx~xxmac.com Date: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:42 pm ((PDT)) Hi All, Does anyone have any direct experience with this duplicator on the Sherline lathe? The Vanda-Lay duplicator seems like a good idea, but I've only found one message about how well it worked for them. I was hoping to find someone who uses it regularly. I don't intend to go CNC. I need to make about 30 of each if three different size cannon barrels for a model. I emailed Vanda-lay asking if there were any customer testimonials. They simply emailed me back and said it works very well. So what else would they say about their product? Thanks, Clare Hess ------- Re: Vanda-Lay duplicator for Sherline lathe Posted by: "Mike Bauers" mwbauers55x~xxwi.rr.com mwbauers Date: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:08 pm ((PDT)) I'd also like to know. I wish to make dozens of types of model locomotive domes, stacks and other fittings that are detailed in vintage graphic literature, but never seem to have been modeled. Doing most of that in gleaming brass would be quite authentic. I have dozens of outline graphic patterns that are ready to be used with such a duplicator. Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi ------- Re: Vanda-Lay duplicator for Sherline lathe Posted by: procterx~xxihug.co.nz kwstse Date: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:45 pm ((PDT)) Hi Clare, I don't know that particular duplicator but such things are generally intended for wood or plastic. You have to control the depth of cut by hand, something which is quite doable with practice. Remember, if you want to cut a precise shoulder such as a cannon band you can only cut one side, or withs "v" point you get an angle cut. Greg.Procter, Hukerenui, New Zealand ------- Re: Vanda-Lay duplicator for Sherline lathe Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:13 am ((PDT)) Clare and Mike, Yes, I have one. The Vanda-Lay duplicator has its good points and its bad points. It can be made to work, but the fact that it it is only connected to the tailstock (one end) and has a seven inch bar to attach the pattern to seems to allow some deviation the further you get toward the headstock (away from the tailstock attachment point). I tried to make some pens with a fancy shape. When using wood pen blanks the result was tolerable, but when done with a plastic blank it was obvious that even though I had set the pattern the correct distance at both ends, pushing the blade into the work to get the cut would displace the pattern arm enough that the brass tube in the center of the blank would show through the plastic toward the headstock end. It would be much better to have a longer arm to hold the pattern that bypassed the tailstock and clamped to the lathe bed at both ends. That wouldn't be too hard to make if you have a mill and a slitting saw. The second problem, and a big one for me, was that the Vanda-Lay setup is useless for duplicating stub parts sticking out from the headstock spindle. I had to make forty decorative plugs to fit in holes that had been drilled in the ends of our church's pews. To do that, I had to make a single clamp that would hold the pattern at the right height crosswise under my blanks. Then I used a modified version of Vanda-Lay's follower- cutter block with that clamp to do the duplicating. If you go to the Sherline group's photo albums and select "Alphabetical" instead of "Latest First" you will find pictures of what I did in my "Bank's Bunglings" folder not too far down in the albums. The first two pictures are of the cutting and use of the engineering wax original in a special wax chuck I made. I cut that piece across the center, inserted a piece of thin plastic, and traced the design. Then cut it out and transferred the pattern to brass sheet. The third picture shows the clamp pattern-holder I made and behind it my modified duplicator head. Then there is a picture of setting the follower and cutter points, followed by two of cutting the shape, and one of the final products. I hope that's not too much tooting my horn. The other thing I would add is that the Vanda-Lay instructions say you should lock the duplicating head to the cross slide and disconnect the lathe's main lead screw. I didn't do either, just lock the screw down and then back it off just enough that the head can twist and slide. That way you can get square corners with the "V" shaped point. If you have further questions you can contact me directly. Hope this helps. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Wierd problem with spindle reversing modification [sherline] Posted by: "TonyZPP" tony_zampinix~xxcox.net tonyzlr Date: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:15 am ((PST)) Hi guys, A few years ago I made the modification to the Sherline spindle controller to be able to reverse the spindle direction. http://www.sherline.com/reverse.htm It has worked fine up until I accidentally switched direction while the spindle was running. Now the spindle still works but it’s running about twice as fast as before! The speed control knob still works, but if I want 2800 RPM, I have to put it midway through its travel. If I turn it to its max, it runs scaringly fast. I’m thinking this actually is a great feature! LOL. Seriously, any idea what happened? Thanks, Tony ------- Re: Wierd problem with spindle reversing modification Posted by: "Tom Harrison" TomH--CNCx~xxTS4.Com ts4tomh Date: Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:50 pm ((PST)) Quoting from the link: "A current surge that can instantly burn out the speed control can occur if the switch is thrown in one direction while the motor is still turning in the other direction." Electronic components like transistors and diodes -- semiconductors -- seldom have protection from extremely high voltage spikes. The motor acts like a generator if spinning when voltage is removed (like when operating the switch), and pushes energy back toward the control. When the switch is reversed, the surge from the motor combines with the energy delivered in reverse from the control. That would probably exceed the built-in surge protections provided by the speed control board design, and by a large factor. Sorry. You can try to use the max speed adjustment on the board, but odds are something is just a bit fried. Don't feel too bad. It's not all that uncommon; I've broken my share of electronic devices, too. It is possible to design a modification that will not allow direction change unless the motor is turned off, but it won't fit inside the case and will be about 10 times as expensive.... Tom Harrison ------- Re: Wierd problem with spindle reversing modification Posted by: markotimex~xxshaw.ca markotime Date: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:31 pm ((PST)) Back in the days when the signal to noise ratio on this group was about 60 dB, I (and David M) responded to Marcus' request for help on a similar problem. The reverse current fried the wire connecting one of the motor brushes - easily fixed, no damage to the speed control, which may have been an early one, now that I think about it. With the KB DC ontroller, I suspect that something in the reference voltage (feedback depends on it) area is toasted. At worst, leave it as is, at best buy a new control from Sherline, and in between (what I would do) get a KBIC on ebay for 20 bucks or so, wire it in (won't fit in the Sherline space) and it'll be like new. And if someone wants to troubleshoot, there IS a schematic of the KBIC (on which the Sherline board is based) that's been around for years. Oh, for the days when message threads were pruned, idle chatter between friends was private, and one didn't have to spend hours each week searching for a gem of knowledge about something relevant to Sherline. Sigh. ------- [sherline] New Album / Beyond Basics / Zero Adjustable Lock Nut Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:45 pm ((PST)) Album: "Beyond Basics" Photos show the solution to a problem. I have Sherline's Zero Adjustable Hand wheels on my machines. Very good to have a 0 set any where. It is a two handed operation. However, I experienced slippage from time to time. And lost my reference(s). The result is shown in the photos. The brass split clamp locks on the lock nut, giving me more torque. It also has a .250" bore that can clamp on any lead screw, and using a battery driven screwdriver, provides a power feed. Jerry G (Glickstein) P.S. A lucky bonus. After clamping a number of times, the straight knurl on the lock nut "coined" itself into the bore of the brass lock nut clamp, giving me a better grab, and eliminated having to make a blind broaching that I was contemplating. ------- mill protectors [sherline] Posted by: c.harrisx~xxnigelbowen.com.au charris1953 Date: Mon Feb 2, 2015 6:48 pm ((PST)) Is anyone able to tell me where I can buy a set of the bellows-type mill ways protectors that can be seen in Ken Condal/Zeamon's "The Art and Craftsmanship of Zeamon" demonstrations on the web? ------- Re: mill protectors Posted by: "Ken Condal" kencondalx~xxyahoo.com kencondal Date: Mon Feb 2, 2015 8:13 pm ((PST)) I’m probably the guy to answer this since you’re talking about me. :-) I bought them from MSC Direct. Spoiler Alert: They’re expensive, but worth every penny. I don’t remember the exact size I used, but here’s a link to get you started. http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/63416069 I used the square one you see in the link. I used blue tape to compress the bellows, then ran it through my bandsaw to end up with two u-shaped pieces. I made all of the attachment hardware, customized for my mill. One end of each bellows should be fastened in such a way so it’s easy to loosen and fold out of the way for cleaning and lubricating the ways. I typically do that maintenance before I start a major project and then again when I’m done. MSC does sell u-shaped bellows (scroll down the page). It all depends on figuring out what size is best for your mill. Good luck, Ken ------- Re: mill protectors Posted by: "Ron Ginger" rongingerx~xxroadrunner.com yaginger Date: Tue Feb 3, 2015 4:44 am ((PST)) google is your friend! http://softsolder.com/2009/01/21/sherline-bellows-covers-the-cheap-way/ In his article he has a couple links to other sites and folding patterns. I just buy a box of cheap chip brushes and keep one by all my machines and just wipe off the chips when they get in the way. ron ginger ------- mill protectors Posted by: c.harrisx~xxnigelbowen.com.au charris1953 Date: Tue Feb 3, 2015 1:14 pm ((PST)) Thanks guys for the responses. I have tried folding cardboard protectors but just could not get the hang of the fold required at the corners. Maybe I need to try again - clearly it can be done = before going for the proprietary alternative. Ken, I like the calm, measured commentaries to your videos: my work is often accompanied by a lot more swearing. ------- Re: mill protectors Posted by: "Mike Bauers" mwbauers55x~xxwi.rr.com mwbauers Date: Tue Feb 3, 2015 1:39 pm ((PST)) Fold with a straight-edge.... I bet you already do that..... I'm attaching an old model diaphragm diagram. It may show the trick of doing those corners. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi ------- Re: mill protectors Posted by: "Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz kwstse Date: Tue Feb 3, 2015 3:51 pm ((PST)) Top and side folds go in opposite directions. In connects to out and vici versa. Greg.Procter, Hukerenui, New Zealand. ------- Re: mill protectors Posted by: "Grant Maizels" grant.maizelsx~xxgmail.com grant.maizels Date: Tue Feb 3, 2015 3:15 pm ((PST)) When I bought my sherline mill second hand, it came with way protectors made from folded tracing film, the type used (long ago) in a drafting room. Not sure where you can get it nowadays, though I think I still have a small stock. I think the tracing paper, being a lot stiffer than cardboard, is quite appropriate for this task. It is probably also more resistant to any cutting fluid you might use. Grant ------- Re: mill protectors Posted by: baboonhead11x~xxyahoo.com baboonhead11 Date: Tue Feb 3, 2015 9:01 pm ((PST)) Crap.. thats expensive... $500? I made my own out of cardboard. Then spray coated with a polymer type material coating. It becomes a bit better oil proof and water proof. Been using it for 3 years. Still going strong. Cost was $10 max. ------- Re: mill protectors Posted by: baboonhead11x~xxyahoo.com baboonhead11 Date: Tue Feb 3, 2015 9:04 pm ((PST)) Yeah I made mine too. Mine covers all 3 axis. Youtuber tryally made one too for his X and Y. A lot neater than mine with really nice fitting end plates, but mine works ok enough. Sometimes chips find its way into the tiny gap I have right near the steppers. But it's easy to clean and doesn't get onto the dovetails. ------- NOTE TO FILE: The following is not really a mod, just an aid to making Sherline gibs when needed as opposed to buying same. ------- [sherline group at Yahoo] New Album / Drill Jig for Sherline Gibs Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:10 pm ((PST)) Album; "Drill Jig for Sherline Gibs" Photo shows some ingredients to prepare the gibs for installation. Q's? C's? Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- New Photo / Sherline Gib Drill Jib / End Stop Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:48 pm ((PST)) Album; "Sherline Gib Drill Jig" Photo shows the set up to align, edge find, center drill, drill and tap ( 8-32) for the adjustable End Stop of the Drill Jig. I have 6 (six) Sherline Machines. Three Lathes (2 gibs each) Three Mills (3 gibs each) Total = 15 (fifteen) gibs That is why I have developed a Sherline Gib Drill Jig, Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- 2000 Mill / Short Cut / Verbal Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Wed Apr 1, 2015 7:02 pm ((PDT)) "2000 Mill" I am going to try eliminating the first steps given in the Sherline Instructions. As far as I can determine, the object is to stretch the spring only enough to do the job, and not deform it. I will remove a screw holding one end of the extension spring. I do not have to remove the Sherline Headstock, DC Motor and Speed Control. I do not have to remove the ram and column. I will replace the screw using one or both of the screw starters shown in the photo. Results will be shown later. Probably tomorrow. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Thu Apr 2, 2015 9:19 am ((PDT)) Jerry G., I have run into problems with my way covers. The first thing I did was to "enhance" the accordions by using pieces of the clear packaging tape the Post Office sells, cut at an angle at the top, to tape the accordion plastic to the metal end plates. I'll post a picture. That was not a problem. But when I looked the assemblies over, the one set of rivets was installed from the outside in instead of the reverse. I drilled those rivets out and installed new ones so the pleats could collapse completely without risk of eventual damage. But then again, when I positioned the front accordion on the mill, it didn't fit against the saddle. I intended to also install the backlash upgrade on the mill, and I found the key to the problem in the instructions for that. It says the backlash upgrade is for mills built after 1997. Guess what. I bought mine in 1995, meaning I have the little pointer to engage the backlash nut, not the geared/knurled wheel, and the pointer screw hole is further out from the lead screw than the one for the new gear wheel. I could handle the way cover installation by carving up the end plate, but that wouldn't do for the backlash upgrade, so I called Sherline (incidentally, they said Fred Smittles is on extended sick leave). The guy I spoke to at Sherline said I should install the upgrade on the other side of the Y axis screw because there wasn't room for a new screw hole on the left side without overlapping the existing hole. When I checked, though, drilling on the right side would put the new hole half into the X axis lock slug. So as I see it, there are two things I can do: a. I could make myself a new knurled/geared wheel of a size sufficient to engage the backlash nut when installed in the existing screw hole, then cut off the amount at the bottom that would interfere with the Y axis slide. – or – b. I could make an over-length aluminum screw that would be a tight fit in the existing hole, install it with Loctite red, cut it off and smooth the surface, and then use the backlash jig tool that came with the lathe upgrade to drill a new screw hole where it should be. The Sherline rep was afraid that in doing so the screw insert might tighten even more, making a pig's breakfast of the saddle. But my thought is that if I use the Loctite and then use several short brass sleeves in the jig's hole so I can work up to the proper size for the required tap, I might get away with putting in an overlapping hole. So which way would you go? Or can you think of another way to skin the proverbial cat? Tom ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Thu Apr 2, 2015 10:05 am ((PDT)) Tom, I need time to digest your post and problems..... But, at the present time, I am "The Proverbial Cat that is being Skinned!!! Jerry G (Glickstein) (BTW, in my opinion, the rivets are not properly headed) In my experience, rivets are set with a rounded "tail" for a smooth appearance. All the rivet tails installed are just mashed with some sort of rivet set that left a slightly mushroomed flat head that is sharp to the touch. I can't say I like what I have. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Fri Apr 3, 2015 8:32 am ((PDT)) The rivets are "pop rivets. They would be better if they were eyelets, as for leather; but since the plastic accordions are replaceable, more people are likely to have pop rivet tools since they are available in any hardware store/department. And the picture of my taped down plastic pleat ends is in my "Bank's Bunglings album. Next step will be to make a couple sheet metal hooks for at least one end of the springs, that can be popped on and off the little screws on the accordion end plates. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers - relocating backlash adjuster Posted by: "William Cox" wtcox_listx~xxcomcast.net wtcox_nj Date: Fri Apr 3, 2015 7:05 pm ((PDT)) The screws in aluminum I've seen are pretty sloppy; I'm leaning toward an accurately turned 6061 cylinder and LocTite 609 Retaining Compound (0.005 clearance max), then mill the surface flat, then use an end mill to cut the new hole in the correct position. bill cox ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers - relocating backlash adjuster Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Fri Apr 3, 2015 9:20 pm ((PDT)) Hi Bill, Re; Proposal # 3. You are quite welcome. I am here to teach, demonstrate my machines, tools, and document my stuff for all who will benefit by it. As a staunch member, and one of the originals (now 431 strong) of the Glick Model Shop Group, (originally The MEworkshop Group) since its inception; Oct 13, 2006 ( A Friday, of course :) I am doubly glad you were helped, and go on to help others...... Best Regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) P.S. A short while ago, I completed installing Sherline P/N 5090 The Sherline Mill Way Cover, on the second machine to be upgraded. This is a Sherline 2000 Mill. I was also able to use my shortcut idea and did not have to remove The Sherline DC Motor And Speed Control, and the Ram and Column. Thereby maintaining the tramming alignment. Photos and notice later. ------- New Photos / 2000 Mill Y Axis Way Cover / Installed Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Sat Apr 4, 2015 2:42 am ((PDT)) Album; "2000 Mill Y Axis Way Cover" Photos show the way cover installation on my Sherline 2000 Mill. Headstock is from my Sherline 5400 Mill. The photos speak for themselves. One more Mill to be done. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Two More Photos On Upgrading Sherline's Y-Axis Bellows Upgrade Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Wed Apr 8, 2015 12:27 pm ((PDT)) I added two more photos on embellishments to the Sherline Y-Axis way cover bellows to my "Bank's Bunglings" album. The one shows a couple of electronics-type lock washers with solder tabs (actually small tabs with two holes each). I modified one of these for each of the bellows to turn the two holes into a hook. The second new photo shows them in place on the bellows end plate with the spring Sherline provides. I couldn't find these solder tab lock washers on the Radio Shack web site any more, but you should be able to bum or buy four per mill from any electronics repair shop in your area or from an amateur radio enthusiast. I think the ones I had on hand are #6. The first photo also shows the roll of 1-7/8" wide packaging tape I used to secure the last fold of the bellows to the end plates. I had written in previous posts that I got the tape from the Post Office. Sorry about that, it came from Staples. I split the width of the tape in half and for the external taping, slipped the length into the bellows fold and then wrapped it over the plate. Best to do the inside taping first, then the outside piece across the top, followed by the side pieces. When taping the outside top, once the strip is sealed to the plastic bellows and the end plate, cut the diagonal corner only on the bellows side –- being careful not to cut the bellows itself –- then wrap the tape sticking out and up from the end plate side over the diagonal corner and into the bellows fold to seal things there. This taping is a fiddly little job, but like so many things, by the time you get done you'll have your technique perfected –- and then never use it again, or will have forgotten it the next time you need it. One last point, Sherline's instructions say you should remove the Y-Axis travel-stop socket-head screw so it doesn't interfere with the front bellows end plate. If you screw that screw in tightly and then file the front edge at the top enough to mark it, you can remove the screw and file or grind enough of a flat down that side of the head that the screw can be replaced and not interfere with installation of the front bellows' front plate. Regards, Tom Bank ------- New Album / New Photo / Sherline with Hybrid Way Covers Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Thu Apr 9, 2015 12:17 pm ((PDT)) Album: "Sherline with Hybrid Way Covers" Photo shows a newly installed set of Way Covers on my third Sherline Mill. A Vertical Mill converted to Horizontal. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers - relocating backlash adjuster Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Sat Apr 4, 2015 4:18 pm ((PDT)) Bill Cox, and anyone else who is following this thread, Thanks so much for your post. It made me realize that while putting a threaded rod into my existing pre-1997 backlash lock pointer hole would come close, the real solution to the problem is to drill out the threads and then fill the hole with an accurately cut rod that has a fine knurl. The problem this solves is what the Sherline machinist pointed out to me: That a threaded rod could twist on the threads and create a pigs breakfast of my Y axis saddle. By drilling and then filling the screw hole with a knurled rod I should be able to use the lathe upgrade jig piece to re-drill and tap for the new backlash adjuster gear without problems resulting from movement of the inserted slug. Sincerely, Tom Bank -------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers - relocating backlash adjuster Posted by: "William Cox" wtcox_listx~xxcomcast.net wtcox_nj Date: Mon Apr 6, 2015 12:35 pm ((PDT)) And thanks to Jerry as a great sounding board...who's helped me work out a number of ideas. Tom, I'd never thought of a knurl. I was always planning to insert the cylindrical piece with LocTite. Now I need another tool. Seriously, I can see why a straight knurl would help lock the filler in place and that should be mechanically better than LocTite. So are you thinking straight, or a regular diamond-type knurl? I'd think the diamond would shear off material, and the straight would act as a spline joint. Thanks! bill ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers - relocating backlash adjuster Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Tue Apr 7, 2015 7:21 am ((PDT)) Bill, Just use a straight knurl. If you tried a diamond knurl you would never get it in. Actually, if you had two left hand knurl cutters that (in theory) would work even better than the straight knurls because, once in place, when the new hole was drilled the turning drill bit would force the plug even tighter. But in practice, once the hole is drilled and tapped and the new screw is in place the screw threads will lock the plug in position. Regards, and thanks again for your help, Tom Bank ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers - relocating backlash adjuster Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Mon Apr 6, 2015 12:57 pm ((PDT)) Guys, Here's another little trick. Use a "Dutch Pin". At the juncture of the plug's OD and its centerline, Drill a small hole, Drill for a press fit pin. Half in the plug, half in the surrounding "meat" Can also use a small set screw if you drill and tap. No LocTite, No Knurling. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers - relocating backlash adjuster Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Tue Apr 7, 2015 7:21 am ((PDT)) Jerry, That's close to what we are talking about, just that the knurl will hold the plug in place instead of the extra hole and pin would have to be placed so it won't interfere with the placement of the new screw hole. Also drilling for and placing the pin would be an extra step, and since we couldn't see the pin's location with the drill jig in place, the pin could interfere with the new hole drilling or tapping. But the Dutch Pin is something to keep in mind – if our (my old) mind can store AND THEN RETRIEVE that choice piece of information when it is next required. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Sherline's Way Covers - relocating backlash adjuster Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Wed Apr 8, 2015 7:00 am ((PDT)) Hi Tom, if, and when you do use a Dutch Pin, always center drill first. Especially when there are dis-similar materials involved. A drill is not a finishing tool, and bears upon the material. If the drill does not have equal cutting lips (length and angular), it will cut oversize, and wander. The center drill cures a lot of ills. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- [Sherline] New Album / Brass Lead Screw Casing / New Tapped Holes Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:02 pm ((PDT)) Album: "Brass Lead Screw Casing" Photo shows the set up to add new tapped holes to Sherline P/N 50050 Mill Column Base. Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Newer style speed control on older style mill? [sherline] Posted by: "Grant Maizels" grant.maizelsx~xxgmail.com grant.maizels Date: Thu Sep 3, 2015 5:56 pm ((PDT)) On 3 September 2015 ksczx~xxmsn.com [sherline] wrote: > Hello, Does anyone know if the newer style dc motor control work with > the older ac/dc universal motor? Info or experience sharing would be > appreciated. Thanks for your time, Ed J. Hi, I have both an old Model 1000 with a AC universal motor and a new lathe with a DC motor. The new DC motor is much better. The AC motor is really just a sewing machine motor, but it runs backwards compared with normal sewing machine motors (you can fix this changing the motor internal wiring). Shortly after I got the lathe (already about 20 years old) smoke came out of the speed controller, so I built a Jaycar universal motor controller kit. This worked well and lasted another 10 years or so and then failed. I replaced the SCR, but the fault must be elsewhere. Anyway I found that there are specific models of light dimmers which are also rated for low power universal motors (e.g. fans). I wired up one of these and it is currently running happily. (But now I mostly use the newer lathe). Grant Melbourne, Australia ------- [Follow up to thread: Re: Newer style speed control on older style mill?] Re: Digest Number 6239 [sherline] Posted by: "Grant Maizels" grant.maizelsx~xxgmail.com grant.maizels Date: Sat Sep 5, 2015 7:31 pm ((PDT)) Best option is a DC Sherline motor, but if you are cost conscious, then there are other options. Since (as far as I can tell) the old motors are actually sewing machine motors with speed controllers on them, I agree with Greg P. and suggest you get a US 110V sewing machine motor. I have obtained several of these from second hand shops for a few dollars and even off the side of the road for free. You may have an issue with the motor running in the wrong direction. There are several solutions to this: * Mount the motor backwards. If the bracket puts it too close to the chuck, perhaps mount it further from the lathe and use a longer belt. * Open the motor and change the way polarity of the brushes compared with the polarity (google "reversing universal motor sewing machine"). * Open the motor and wire in a reversing switch. You will need a 110V (or 240V) DPDT switch. The best ones have prevent you going from forward to reverse without pausing, but are rather harder to find. I have read that some universal motor brushes are not designed to run in reverse, and will wear the brushes faster, but I think this is not a big issue with these motors and they are not really expensive to replace if necessary. Only carry out the last two suggestions if you are comfortable with the safety issues involved in working with 110V circuits. For speed control, you can use a sewing machine foot pedal, a dimmer switch rated for light universal motors or build/buy a SCR/Triac based speed control. If you use the reversing switch remember not to run the lathe in reverse with the chuck or faceplate attached or it will spin off the thread. Potentially useful if you are using collets and you want to do left handed boring or upside down parting. Grant ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------