Many Taig mill users' tips to solve problems and hopefully work more efficiently. Besides the messages here, Taig mill users will want to read the Taig lathe files as there is a fair bit of commonality of parts and tools and adjustments and machining practice for the lathe that apply to the mill. For cross-use of Sherline accessories on Taig (and vice versa), be sure to read the Sherline to/from Taig Adapters file as simple modifications may be necessary. Although both brands have 3/4 inch 16TPI threaded spindles, there are differences that usually must be adjusted for. Furthermore, Taig mill users will greatly benefit from reading the Sherline files, as that machine has similar size limitations and some ingenious users who have ideas that could easily be adapted for the Taig mill. For those thinking of going to CNC, the CNC General file includes much information that is applicable. Then there are the general milling files. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2008 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. =========================================================================== Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 14:58:49 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Mill Manual Since I'm in the process of gutting my shop for a complete re-build, I moved my mill inside and started taking pictures for the mill manual I promised long, long ago. I've gone through adjusting all the gibs and tramming up the column and head. As soon as I crank out the text for these sections, I'll put the whole mess up on the web for editorial comments and corrections. In the process, I found out my column was out of line by about 4 thou over 4 inches. Thinking, "Aha! Now's as good a time as any to square things up!" I started going through the entire process. At one point I had the column a little too loose, and I tapped it a little too hard. It keeled over to about a 45 degree angle. DOH! So the section on tramming up the column is very... current, with lots of recent examples. ;) Since I'm getting off my zud, I went ahead and cranked out two new PDFs for the speeds and feeds, one for a mill with the stock Taig pulleys, and one for a mill with a variable speed motor and tach. They're in Files -> Speeds & Feeds. Tom ------- Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 16:05:06 -0000 From: "Jim Lewis" Subject: Mill cutting chart Hi All: If you own a Taig micro mill you should find this table useful. It shows feeds and speeds based on real-world experience for several materials, cut depths, cut diameters, etc. The table is here: http://www.emachineshop.com Regards, Jim Lewis ------- Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:06:55 -0400 From: Larry Richter Subject: Re: Backlash Assembly for the Taig stonecutter78412 wrote: > How expensive are anti-backlash components? Can you swap out the 3 > axis threads with anti-backlash components? I have issues. heh. > Vince in Corpus Christi I'm out of date as to the nature of anti-backlash nuts. They were once reasonable in small sizes. Most I've seen or shopped took the form of two more or less standard nuts in one housing, one fixed, one movable, with the distance between the two nuts being variable. Some were more like shims for threads -- they were manually adjusted, and if the variation from spec in the threaded rod they served was a uniform variance, good enough on shake removal. Some had a spring element between the two nuts, and were backlash proof only up to a given load, at which point the spring failed to produce backlash removal. I expect there are plenty of other and better ways. It's possible to make them. ------- Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:31:26 +0900 From: "Mark Thomas" Subject: RE: Question about Taig collets >I am wondering if the collets that come with the Taig mill are of a common or proprietary design? I have noticed that there is a very slight wobble in the 1/8" collet and I would like to get a more accurately made set. thanks, Tom Murray < Tom, the design is proprietary, i.e. not a standard morse taper, 15 degrees if I'm not mistaken. I'm surprised that you're getting a wobble however as the collets do center very well. Check that the collet closer is threading itself on properly, and make sure that the collet is inserted the proper way, taper end first., I'm not being facetious here as I've reversed a collet by mistake on occasion, and inevitably the bit will not center properly as a result. Cheers, Mark ------- Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 02:17:08 -0600 From: "Don Feinberg" Subject: Re: Question about Taig collets I did get one "bad" collet from Taig; they replaced it immediately on my request, and all was well afterwards. It was supposed to be 1/8", but somehow it was a couple of thou too small... Ring up Taig -- my experience is that they'll take care of it straight away. - Don Feinberg ------- Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:59:24 -0000 From: "Tom Murray " Subject: Re: Question about Taig collets Thanks to everyone for the information. Yes, the collet is inserted the correct way; I take no offence in being asked because the first time I put one in, I did indeed insert it backwards =] I noticed that the collet holds the cutter slightly off center. I estimate that it is about 1-2 thousandths off, but I have no way to measure. I will be using v-cutters that have very fine tips (0.001" - 0.01") to do very fine detail, so a movement of the tool by a thousandths or two is not trivial. I will contact Taig soon. Thanks again, Tom Murray ------- Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:46:58 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: Question about Taig collets Several other things to check: 1) get a dial test indicator, chuck up a 1/8" dowel and see if the collet is really running true. You need a dial indicator, for tramming the column anyway. 2) is it possible that the cutter is bent? or have you checked several cutters in succession? 3) is there any swarf, or other obstructions in the collet slots? 4) do your other collets work well? (once again good place for an indicator) could be the spindle taper instead, perhaps a burr. 5) as others have said, Taig will take care of it if it is bad. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:47:18 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Setting up my new mill? [TAIG] On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, mmurray70 wrote: > Anybody have any tips or advice on things I should check out on my > new mill? Backlash/other adjustments... Tons. I started writing a setup guide for the CNC mill, but I had to put the project aside. I'm planning on getting back into it in the not so distant future when I set my own mill back up. Hoping to take lots of pictures and lots of notes. I'll make it short: Assume NOTHING. Bolts do loosen during shipping, and things that should be aligned might not be. If a part moves, assume it's not lined up in relation to any other part, and work from there. For the record the bolts holding my headstock on had worked loose in shipping, and I chipped an endmill before I figured out what was going on. > I was also wondering what max speed and acceleration I should be using > as a starting point with the Taig mill. I have the 2019 CNC ready mill > with Powermax II (200oz+) steppers and the Xylotex drive. I can do 20ipm pretty easily with moderate acceleration. It's a start, at any rate. Find out where your mill starts losing steps, and reduce from there. > The Y axis seems to have more backlash then then the X and Z, can > someone give some details on adjusting this? Its probably simple, I just > dont want to break anything so i'll ask first. Mmm, I've never had to so I honestly can't say. Mine has about 1.5 thou in X and Y, so I never bothered tuning it mechanically. > Please help me out with these questions, and feel free to post anything > you fell would be helpful to a newbie. Thanks. Best of luck. Be sure to post any questions you might have during setup. Lots of helpful people here. Tom ------- Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:32:54 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Setting up my new mill? I've put the mill alignment stuff up on the web temporarily. I've only written two sections, and both of them need to be expanded a great deal. If anyone needs to assemble or align their Taig mill, feel free to have a look-see. Just be patient with me. I haven't looked at this stuff in almost a year, and there are lots and lots of parenthetical statements to myself and placeholders for pictures. All of the pictures are thumbnails (more like camel's thumbnails). Clicking on them will bring up larger pictures. That being said, I'm going to go back through this when I set up my mill, and will take the time to take better pictures with better lighting. Aside from statements to the effect of, "DANG that's incomplete!" I'd appreciate any and all feedback. If there are areas where my verbage gets confusing, let me know. If there are particular angles you want to see, let me know. And above all else if my mechanics are wrong, please please let me know. (I'd hate to steer people wrong.) Here are the two URLS for the existing sections: http://www.cfht.hawaii.edu/~benedict/mill/gibs.html http://www.cfht.hawaii.edu/~benedict/mill/tramming.html Tom ------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:38:08 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Hand cranks on CNC mill On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, mattbstrong wrote: > I can't tell from the picture, but are the hand cranks removed from the > Taig CNC mill to make room for the stepper motors? In other words, if I > buy a CNC mill will I be able to use it as a hand controlled mill or > only as a CNC mill? In their stock configuration you're right: the handwheels are removed. This has been a subject of some discussion of late. You CAN put handwheels on the outboard end of your motor shafts, but there are some concerns to be aware of: 1 - Any handwheel will add some sort of a flywheel effect. You'll need to re-tune your motors after adding handwheels. 2 - If the handwheels aren't balanced, that can cause vibration, especially during rapid traverse. 3 - If you do use your mill manually, be sure to turn off your mill controller. At one point I was concerned the back-EMF from the motors could fry the driving electronics. One of the driver board manufacturers said it'd be pretty tough to do using only hand power. Still, it can't hurt to protect your electronics. > Also, how is the backlash on these mills and how long do they last? Mine's still about 0.001 on X and 0.0015 on Y. Z is essentially dead on since the weight of the spindle tends to force the leadscrew nut up against the leadscrew. Mine has been running since roughly July of 2000. No appreciable increase in backlash, and the gibs are still nice. I haven't been using it in any sort of continuous duty mode, but I've also taken on some fairly heavy cutting jobs with it. > Is the mill going to have to be replaced in a few years? Oh boy I hope not! I'm quite attached to mine. I'm hoping with care and feeding it'll last long enough for me to keel over and foist it off on someone else. > How many drive belts does a person go through using one of these mills? > Can any give me a hours per belt estimate? Are the belts expensive > and/or difficult to come by? They're pretty easy to come by. I got a spare belt for my lathe when I got it in early 2000. The mill uses the same size belt as the one I use on my lathe. I think it cost something like $10 or so, and was available from Taig. I've seen them elsewhere for about that same price. Not that I think Taig will go out of business any time soon (from what I hear they're still pretty swamped), but I'm guessing I could get another one pretty easily. So far I have yet to use that spare belt, and I have used my lathe a LOT. For a while it was seeing upwards of six hours of use a day. I guess that went on for the better part of a year. That belt's still in almost pristine shape. No cracks, no appreciable wear. If you ever do wind up with a mill that's got a broken belt that can't be replaced, all's not lost. Find a new style belt of about the same length, and make a new set of step pulleys. A number of people have replaced their pulleys with timing belt pulleys so they can use variable DC motors on the spindle. From what I've heard it works like a charm. > What CAM packages are people using that are capable of doing four axis > milling? Gooooood question!! Man, that one plagued me for a long time. When I got my mill it came with Supercam, which only did 2D+1 milling, and the MaxNC software, which would run 4-axis G-code, but wouldn't generate it. I searched high, I searched low, and I downloaded a lot of demos for software I'll never be able to afford (which is a real shame, because I got attached to a few of them.) The one I finally wound up with is Vector. I got it from Fred Smith at IM Service. http://www.imsrv.com So far I like it a lot. The rotary axis cost extra, but it has been worth it. (More on this in a sec.) Again, Vector is by no means the only option. A number of other packages have come up since I did my searching, and they're well worth looking into. A couple of them are also sold on the IM Service site. BobCAD is another I've heard of, but never tried. Back to that fourth axis stuff, and CAM in general: It's not 100% essential that you have CAM software. It's also not 100% essential that you have full-blown four-axis G-code generation, depending on what you're doing. Here's a good example: At one point I was planning on making a turbine impeller. (Heck, I'm still interested in making the thing, but other projects kinda got in the way.) This is one of the reasons I got Vector with the fourth axis. Turns out for that application I probably didn't have to. You can still make the impeller by machining out a blade, making a rotary axis command, machining out the next blade, making a rotary axis command, etc. You don't need 4-axis CAM software to do that. You just need a text editor. Here's what it would look like: G0 X0 Y0 Z0 G1 ... (This is where it's cutting out a turbine blade using 2D+1 machining) G0 A10 G1 ... (Repeat from the previous block) G0 A20 G1 ... (Repeat from the previous block) In each instance, you're stepping the rotary axis by 10 degrees before cutting the next blade. And if you're not making something like an airfoil, you can hand-code a LOT of G-code. When CNC machining was invented, it was assumed you'd be coding it by hand. So the G-code commands were written in such a way that they are more or less human-readable (and writable!) All that being said... I like my mill a whole lot. Provided I'm working within its envelope of size, materials, cutting speeds and feeds, etc., it's a highly reliable machine that has never ceased to put out good work. I also like Vector a lot. (I think I'll like it even more once I shell out the money for the solid modeling part, but for now I don't honestly need it.) I'm not 100% hooked on EMC. Its handling of the rotary axis left a lot to be desired the last time I dinked with it. Still, it provides a lot more functionality than Supercam did, and the price was right (free). Mind my asking what you're planning on making with your mill? It'd help when answering your questions. Tom ------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:35:53 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: 4 axis mills > > Does Taig make their own fourth axis attachment or do I need to buy from > > third party? > They use a Sherline rotary table for their fourth axis, but it's available > directly from Taig or from one of their dealers. I bought mine with my > mill through Nick Carter. Sherline has a monthly special on their Internet site. Since I purchased my Sherline equipment, I've seen the both rotary tables (there's a manual table and a CNC table) offered twice. The internet special carries a discount of 20% off list price. > When you're shopping for a mill, don't get too attached to the software > offered with any of them. As with anything else computer related, > software can be swapped out for something that's more suited for what you > intend to do with the mill. Get a mill that's mechanically sound, and you > can find software to drive it. One piece of advice that I can offer here - Buy a motor driver that uses step and direction rather than phase inputs. If the 'factory built' CNC mill you finally decide upon uses a phase input driver, (I believe this is true of the Taig mill), you'd be better off purchasing a machine without the hardware controllers and adding your own. While there are several different GCode interpreters available to drive a lathe or mill, the majority of these controllers generate step/direction signals. As far as robustness (will you have to replace it in a year??), a lot depends on how you use the machine. In general, the machines are designed so that a few low cost parts wear out through usage. Replace these parts, and you're back to factory specificiations. For example, look for a brass nut driven by the leadscrew. The nut will eventually fail (One fellow on the Sherline list reported that he had to change the saddle nuts on his machine). Replace it and you're back in business. -- Jerry ------- Date: 09 Apr 2003 13:11:34 +0900 From: Mark Thomas Subject: Re: Hand cranks on CNC mill The CNC mill comes with radio knobs installed instead of hand cranks. These can be used for small movements but are not good if you want to actually want to do hand machining. Fortunately the shafts are standard 1/4 inch so there are any number of replacement handles available, or you can easily make your own. I usually run the mill without hand cranks at all while under CNC control. On the rare occasions that I actually want to use the mill manually I attach oversize ones to facilitate the operation. I don't disconnect the steppers during manual operations, just make sure the driver is powered down, however this may depend on the type of driver you have as to if it can dissipate the generated back EMF. > Also, how is the backlash on these mills and how long do they last? > Is the mill going to have to be replaced in a few years? The backlash is easily adjusted on the Y and X axis and you should be able to keep it to less than .002", the saddle nuts may eventually wear, but these are inexpensive and easy to replace. That said, the wear will be in relation to the amount of usage, however there are a number of people on this list who use these mills in at least a semi-production environment and there has not been many reports of the necessity to replace the nuts at any high frequency. All the parts on the mill that are subject to wear are replaceable, in some cases with factory parts or in other cases such as bearings can be off the shelf from a myriad of suppliers. Obviously proper maintenance will greatly increase the life of all parts. For its size the Taig mill is quite an accurate and rugged little beast. I'm still on the original belt on my lathe after three years of moderate to heavy use. I'm on the second belt on the mill, but the first belts' life was shortened by pulley miss-alignment (my bad) the second one is showing no signs of deterioration after a year. When the first belt went I ordered three spares from Taig, so I doubt I will need any new ones for a few years. > What CAM packages are people using that are capable of doing four > axis milling? A lot of this depends on what kind of work you will be producing. I find that the majority of my work utilising the 4th axis is actually just standard 3 axis milling with a 4th axis shift following each set of procedures. I run Turbocnc with either hand generated code or on more complex operations generate g-code from .DXF files, which I then hand edit to insert 4th axis moves as necessary. Mark Thomas http://home.inter.net/mthomas ------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:08:22 -0000 From: "eferg2001" Subject: Re: 4th axis In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "j421661" wrote: > I have my mill running using Mach1, Xylotex board and 350oz. motors > in three axis. My question is what kind of device is most commonly > used for the fourth axis? Jim I purchased a Sherline CNC ready rotary table for my 4th axis. I just needed to drill new mounting holes in the base plate to align with the Taig table slots. I'm using a 210 oz stepper with the rotary table. Regards, Ed Ferguson ------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:25:40 -0000 From: "stevenson_engineers" Subject: Re: 4th axis Jim, look in the photos section of this group, look under Taig mill and the last shot shows a poor man's 4th axis. Built out of a 40:1 reduction gearbox and a 200 oz stepper. ------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:14:15 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: X Axis adjustments The newer mills have a different x axis gib than the older mills. On the newer mills the gib is tapered and is adjusted by tightening and loosening screws on the left and right ends of the gib. There is now only one screw in the front that is used for locking the table. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:17:07 +0100 From: Steve Blackmore Subject: Re: New mill owner - questions On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:41:24 -0000, you wrote: >Couple of newbie questions, particular to this mill: >* For Chinese made mini-lathes, etc, it's customary to clean all the >grease and oil and sludge off the machine, and re-oil it. What do >people use for degreasing, and what do you guys use for way oil? >(heck, where do you get way oil aside from liberating from bigger >machine shops?) I just cleaned mine with paper towels soaked in WD40. I was using a moly type dri slide lubricant till I ran out and am now on Esso Nuto H32 - it's an hydraulic oil that doesn't emulsify in water - important if you use coolant. >* Upon disassembly of the mill for measurements, etc - I don't see >any anti-backlash nuts on the axis. Can someone confirm this? How >is the amount of backlash adjusted on this mill? (On the Sherline, >there's a nut that you tension up). There are no anti-backlash nuts as such, the spilt nut design keeps them tight. End play is taken up by carefully adjusting the nylock nuts on the shaft ends - DON'T over tighten, just enough to remove play. >* How is the Y-axis gibs adjusted for wear? With tapered gibs, you >slide them in until they are snug then tighten them down, and the >gibs stay parallel to the ways. How can I make sure that when I >adjust the gibs ont he Y the gibs stay parallel to the ways instead >of toeing in? Nip both ends up tight then back off the same amount. >* I noticed that even brand new, some parts of the x-axis travel is >a bit tight. Does it need to be broken in, or do I have problems? Soon wear off. Unless they've changed things - here's a note from my Taig webpage "I had a problem with the X axis gib screws. The design is flawed in my opinion, it relies purely on grub screws staying put, with no locking device. The motor side one was slack from new, and on a recent job decided to come loose. This has a really nasty side effect, it allows the carriage to move freely to the right and jam to the left!! The cure is simple, throw away the grub screws and replace with longer bolts and a locking nut as per the Y axis. 10-32 bolts are not easy to come by in the UK, so I re-tapped 5mm and used those." I now believe that you are supposed to put locking screws in on top of the grub screws - again a bad idea, the grub screws move when you "lock" them :( >* I'm assuming that the tension of the stepper motor frame against >the mounts hold the motor mount flange position against the extension tube? Yes. Hope this helps! Steve Blackmore ------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 20:19:57 -0000 From: "sikn1gh7" Subject: Re: New mill owner - questions <> They are using a tapered gib on the X-Axis, but not on the Y or Z axis. Terence ------- Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 00:15:04 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Sherline End Mill Holder wrote: > I purchased a 3/8" Sherline end mill holder. I was hoping I could > use this on my Taig mill. When I screw it onto my spindle to a snug > fit there is a lot of runout on the holder. Does anyone else use one > of these? Did you have to do anything special to get it to run true? > Thanks, Shawn Shawn: The accuracy and stability of the Sherline holder comes from the fact that it is seated on a square sholder just behind the Sherline spindle thread. Since the Taig spindle thread is about .220" longer than the Sherline, the holder is not seating against a shoulder. If you cut an accurate .220" spacer to compensate for this it should resolve your problem. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 02:49:25 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: Re: Sherline End Mill Holder n2562001 wrote: > If you cut a accurate .220" spacer to > compensate for this it should resolve your problem. It doesn't even need to be .220". So long as the ends are square and it's over .220", you'll be fine. ------- Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 14:54:54 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: Sherline End Mill Holder Paul: There are a couple of reasons I suggested a .220" spacer. First since the Taig spindle thread is longer so you will need at least .200" to properly seat. The second reason is just as important. The holder was designed to be used with a .312" long thread which is relatively short considering the diameter. Anything shorter than the .312" will start to decrease stability and accuracy under load. (Ask me how I know) The .220" spacer will just provide the full .312" thread while allowing the holder to seat properly. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:16:04 -0000 From: "Robin S." Subject: Re: Sherline End Mill Holder I think he was more worried about you not providing any tolerance specification on your measurement. There are people here who may not understand why you specified that number, and will try only to make precisely what you specified. This could mean much wasted time for no good reason. Just a thought :) Regards, Robin ------- Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 15:11:49 -0000 From: "klickcue" Subject: Re: Y-Axis Problem (Need help asap) --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "mmurray701" wrote: > The Y axis on my mill has always had more resistance than X and Z. I > tore it down before and didn't notice anything, so I just blamed it > on having the weight of the X axis on top of it. The problem seemed > to be getting worse if anything so I took it apart again tonight. I > noticed that the Y axis nut has left a significant scratch on the > bed below it. > What exactly holds the Y axis nut up in place? Mine currently has > nothing. Is this normal? I'm assuming its not normal due to the scratch. Nothing holds the Lead Screw Nut other than a little Loctite. There is a hole in the bed that a pin on the Nut slips into. Sounds like something has caused the nut to move out of position and jam. The nut should be up against the bottom of the bed. HTH. Chris Klindt ------- Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 17:57:49 -0000 From: "klickcue" Subject: Re: Y-Axis Problem (Need help asap) Hi Mark, I don't use anything on my pins when the Lead Nut Screw is installed into the hole. I like my lead nut to pivot if necessary. I don't understand what has caused the lead nut to come out of the hole unless something fell onto the lead screw and you were unaware. There is enough of a shoulder on the pin that it can move without falling out. Take a wooden dowel or plastic rod and stick it through the nut's threaded hole and rock the nut out. Clean the nut up, put it back in place and see if the fit is firm but not sloppy. Reassemble the machine and see how it works. I build custom and customized pool cues, so I have taken my machine apart several times to clean the junk out. I use automatic transmission fluid for my lube. The machine has run hundreds of hours and thousands of inches and still looks as nice as the day it arrived. Glue lines on pool cues don't sell, so the machine has to be on the money. I surface wood at 20-25 inches per minute and cut the pockets and inlays at 10 inches per minute with a 1/32 inch cutter. My web site is at http://www.geocities.com/klickcue/ if you would care to take a look.Oh, I am running a 2000LE CNC Taig Mill. HTH Best regards, Chris Klindt ------- Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:11:33 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: Y-Axis Problem (Need help asap) I'll add your site to my Taig user pages links! Great cues. I assume you're using a 4th axis, any details of your jigging/clamping of the cues? http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 19:46:56 -0000 From: "klickcue" Subject: Re: Y-Axis Problem (Need help asap)-cues Hi Nick, thank you. Yes, I am running a 4th axis. I add an extension table onto the mill to hold the full cue. On the extension table, I added a Sherline Tailstock http://www.sherline.com/3702pg.htm and a Sherline Right Hand Attachment without the upright post http://www.sherline.com/3701pg.htm. The forearm of the cue is done in one operation. The cue is then flipped around and the butt section is done in the next operation. The inlays are glued in and the whole cue is taken to the lathe, where the inlays are brought down to the surface of the cue. Best regards, Chris Klindt ------- Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 02:20:23 -0000 From: "mmurray701" Subject: Re: Y-Axis Problem (Need help asap) Hi, I put the nut back in place with green loctight (sleeve retainer). May be overkill but at least i'm sure it will hold. Seems to be working fine for now. Thanks for the advice. Mark ------- Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 11:42:02 -0000 From: "klickcue" Subject: Re: Y-Axis Problem (Need help asap)-cues --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, Tony Jeffree wrote: > Chris - Great work! > Do you start from a ready made cue and then inlay into that, or is the > entire cue made by you? Regards, Tony Hi Tony, the butt of the cue starts out from 1 3/8" - 1 1/2" squares of wood. The squares are turned round and allowed to rest. The forearm of the cue is turned into a cone and allowed to rest. Rest means to allow the wood to warp and remove tension. Most of my cues are what I call 3 piece cues. The forearm is attached to the handle. The butt sleeve is cored/drilled and is fitted over a tenon extending from the handle. The inlays are cut on the mill. After the cue has been on the lathe, many times, and is down to almost finished size, it is placed on the mill. The mill cuts the pockets for the inlays to fit into. The inlays are glued into the pockets. After the glue has set, the cue is returned to the lathe for a final pass to completed size. After the cue is at final size, a linen (Irish Linen) or leather groove is cut into the cue to accept the wrap. From there, the cue goes into the topcoat/finish stage. Best regards, Chris Klindt ------- Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:52:30 -0000 From: "eferg2001" Subject: Re: 4th axis for 2019CR Taig mill I purchased the Sherline rotary with the motor mount (CNC ready) for my 2019CR Taig mill. I'm using a 210 oz Pac-Sci stepper. I just had to drill four new mounting holes in the rotary base plate as the Sherline and Taig table t-slots have different spacing. I mounted a Taig 4-jaw (soft jaw) chuck on the rotary. Regards, Ed Ferguson ------- Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:59:50 -0000 From: "ndyvo4" Subject: Alignment and Tolerances So there I was, checking the parallelism between the boxway/dovetail with the column. When I placed an indicator on the face of the boxway, right of the dovetail, I got 0.0005" over 3" of travel. On a whim, I switched to the other side of the boxway, left of the dovetail, and got 0.003" over 3" travel. This was disturbing so before I went any further, I dismounted the column to check for any debris at the column face. As it turns out, there was a piece of what looked like silicone potting compound (or some other form of RTV). I replaced the column and repeated the measurements and found that it varied by 0.001", regardless of where the indicator was contacting the boxway. But before I continue, where could I find "acceptable" tolerances for these sorts of specifications? Is it worth the effort to zero out that 0.001"? And to add to the list of things to check: I removed the dovetail from the boxway and found metal flash pressed between the dovetail and boxway; it looked like it came from the mounting holes. In addition to the flash, I found what looked like yard debris - blades of grass, bits of weeds... ------- Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:37:13 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Alignment and Tolerances Getting less than a thou (.001) is pretty damn good. Don't know about the yard debris - the one I just put together seemed clean. I did have to add a .001 shim at the bottom of the dovetail, now it reads less than .001 out over a 6" circle. Remember that flex, etc can throw off indicator readings. Chasing the last .001 will drive you insane, I know, I've been there. I once had the mill aligned almost perfectly, tried to take out the last .001 and ended up having to spend several more hours just to get back to where I was before. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:08:02 -0000 From: "mmurray701" Subject: Re: White plastic bits for CNC mill --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Scott A. Stephens" wrote: > The little white plastic bits that go between the CNC coupler to the motor > and the spacer. What function do they preform??? I am getting ready to > put everything together and was wondering. They are the main part of the couplers. They transfer power from one part of the coupler to the other and allow a little movement to prevent binding. Without them, the motor would spin without turning the leadscrew. Make sure the holes on each half of the coupler face each other and the plastic pieces are in place. You won't get far without them. Mark ------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 02:54:18 -0700 From: "Scott A. Stephens" Subject: Re: White plastic bits for CNC mill >They drive the leadscrew - rather than go with a direct coupling, Taig >wanted something that would give if the table bound. >They fit in the 4 holes on each coupler. >>http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html Before I begin taking things about and putting everything together. Does the dial gage on each axis stay on or come off? I have looked at pictures of a few people's conversions and cannot tell. ------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:34:57 -0000 From: "mmurray701" Subject: Re: White plastic bits for CNC mill Put the dial guage on first; this will only cover about 1/4 of the keyway. Then goes the part of the coupler without the recessed end (holes facing out). And then the nyloc nut. Don't over-tighten the nut, it causes the bearings to bind if it's too tight. After that, just screw the other coupler onto the motor shaft, screw the motor to the mount, insert the plastic inserts and thread the mount onto the axis (taking care that the inserts line up), and secure with the round band and set screw. Hope this helps. Mark ------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:24:53 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: z axis adjustment > Hi, I've got a CNC taig mill. I wanted to adjust the Z axis because > it seemed loose. You could rock the axis back and forth and there was > space between the "L" shaped piece that bolts to the side of the box > and wraps around the back of the ways. I was a little confused as to > how to properly adjust this amount of play since the gib does not seem > to contact this at all. Does someone know the correct procedure for > doing this? Thanks, The L shaped pieces should be adjusted against the slide as hard as you can with hand pressure/soft hammer. The gib and other smaller box slide keeps the headstock from yawing right or left. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:08:58 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Motor mounting in front / power-head assembly > How about mounting the motor? How many people kept the motor in the > current location or how many changed the mount to something like Ken > Jenkins? Thanks Mark FYI: My reason for mounting the motor in the front was mainly balance. I like the idea of symmetrically loading "Z". Since I originally put up the pictures of the mount on my site I have removed a lot of metal (eg. cutting out the rectangular side panel centers and slotting the supports which go from the lower end of the motor to the upper end) to further reduce the weight of the whole assembly (although the weight of x~xx13lbs doesn't seem to phase Z-travel at all). I don't know how easy it is to see from the pictures but the motor is mounted to the top of the headstock with a steel plate, special long T-nuts and 8 Allen screws. Power is transmitted with a short XL timing belt/pulley arrangement and there is an adjustment of x~xx.750" in order to tension the belt. The whole assembly is very rigid and it has the advantage that I can remove the whole assembly from the Z-axis (the cable that runs from the motor to the controller box is x~xx 6 ft) and I have in essence a kind of "general purpose - variable speed - power-head". I have an aluminum base plate on which I have mounted a plate like the one on the Z-axis (a \__________/-like cross section). I slide the head onto this plate just like on Z (except now it is in a horizontal orientation). I have several "tools" I am planning to build which will be powered by this. 1. A small diameter blade modeling table saw. 2. A modeling thickness sander. 3. A tool grinding set up . I recently completed another "head" for the mill which allows me to mount a DEWALT laminate trimmer in place of the power-head described above. I used an extra riser block as the start for this and it works very well. When I'm a little less busy I'm going to update the web site: http://kj.cloudcitydigital.com/ Cheers, Ken J. ------- Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:10:42 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Dewalt laminate trimmer mounted to Taig mill I wanted to be able to mount a high speed router to my Taig mill for plastics and woods. I choose the Dewalt DW660 laminate trimmer for its size and because I'm kind of a "yellow fellow" when it comes to power tools (everything else I have is Dewalt too ... which my wife attributes to my desire to color coordinate the shop :-). We'll see how it holds up when I run my first 5 hour contour job! So far for x~xx30 minute runs it doesn't even break a sweat and runs with almost dead zero vibration when engraving. The mount started out as a Taig stock riser block which I modified to include two collars to clamp the DW660. You could change the design to incorporate just about any small router-type tool. Check it out: http://kj.cloudcitydigital.com/pages/taig_mill_d660mount.html Cheers, Ken Jenkins ------- Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 01:19:53 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Simple CNC plotter pencil from Staedtler mechanical pencil I have played around with various ways of pen plotting with the Taig CNC for a while as I'm sure all of you CNC dabblers out there have at one time or another (saves on tooling ... better a broken pencil lead than a 1/4" tool crashed into the table before you can hit ESTOP!!). I mount laminated particle board to the Taig table as my "drafting board" and use a simple springloaded plotter pencil made from a standard Staedtler mechanical pencil mounted in my .500 mill arbor. I took the Staedtler pencil (x~xx$4.00 at Staples) down to its bare guts by stripping away all the plastic. Then I turned a small shoulder where the pencil knurling is. This shoulder press fits into a part which when combined with a spring slides into another part which is secured in the mill arbor. Check it out: http://kj.cloudcitydigital.com/pages/CNCplotterpen.html Cheers, Ken Jenkins ------- Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:57:20 -0400 From: Mark A Woloszyk Subject: Re: Re: Extended Y-axis it's hard to find. it's just a text article on cartertools.com. Credit goes to author. I haven't tried it yet so I cant say if it works or not. I have one other Taig tip for the Taig mill, this tip has been posted to the group but I have not heard anything about anyone trying it which surprised me since it is a "free" modification meaning for a little time and scrap metal you get a great return, that is you can increase your Taigs Y axis by 1.50 inches from 5.5 to over 7 inches on more than one occasion I have needed a few turns more to cut a project and ran out of movement, Taig makes a mill that has more X axis movement but none with more Y axis, so here is what I did, I removed the crank handle and mounting plate from in front of the mill and unscrewed the leadscrew I then flycut a block of aluminum approx 1.5" thick and the size of the mill recieving surface, I then drilled a center hole larger than the leadscrew so it could turn freely, I made a template to mark out the location of the mountion screws on the mounting plate and replaced the short screws with longer screws and the freshly flycut ( on all sides of course) block was slipped into place, mounting plate and leadscrew replaced. I have used this setup for about one year or so with perfect results, in addition no other modifications are needed, due to Taigs overkill engineering the lead screw is long enough to allow full movement of the new Y axis extension. I use a machining vise that has no place on the Taig mill, due to this set up I can mount a 4 inch wide machining vise and machine parts in one set up that I could not do before. I am interested in hearing from anyone that tries this mod. and what they think of it. Chris DiCintio ------- Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:15:06 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Confessions of a Shop Dweeb Ok, confession time. Hopefully someone else can learn from my mistake: I'm making another index wheel for my lathe to compliment the 60 hole wheel I got from Nick. I decided to do all the work on my CNC mill, which worked out well with a couple of caveats. It's the caveats that nabbed me. The wheel was a bolt-down mill-out job. I used a 1/8" mill, and a couple of drills. It worked ok, but it seemed like the drill holes were off by a very very little. On to the pulley! I used a different bolt hole pattern (bad idea), so I had to drill and tap more holes in the pulley. I did this by mounting the 4-jaw chuck to the mill table, mounting the pulley in the chuck, and indicating off the center bore with a TDI. So far so good. I switched to the drill chuck, chucked up a center drill, and drilled out the pattern. Switched to the tap drill, repeated the pattern. Tapped, deburred, and got ready to put the new index wheel on the pulley... No dice! The holes didn't line up at all! I figured I'd goofed on the toolpath, so I turned right around and made a second wheel. Same problem. That's when I got out the calipers. The drill holes on the index wheel were all off to one side by about 0.010". The holes on the pulley were all off on the order of 0.030". I figured there was something wrong with my software, so I spent a week coming up with test patterns to run on my mill. For the sake of simplicity, I only used a 1/8" end mill, even when running drill cycles (only 0.050" deep, so not a big deal). THOSE came out good to 0.001" or so. No matter what I did, no matter if it was G01, G02, G03, G81, G83, etc., they all came out dead-on. I don't know what finally made me check the alignment on my mill. Maybe it was desperation, maybe it was just time. In any case, I found my column was out of line by over 1/8" in 4". The only thing I can trace this back to is a series of tool crashes I had... six months ago. I've been very good about re-leveling the mill head, especially since I've been doing a lot of horizontal milling recently. Turns out the mill head and spindle was in excellent alignment with the mill table. But the COLUMN was way off. Here's how the errors popped up: The height difference between my 1/8" end mill and my center drill is small, maybe a few tenths of an inch. With the offset in the mill column, this meant the center drill marks were slightly off to one side when compared to the features cut by the mill. On the pulley things were more extreme. My TDI eats up a lot of column space, so the difference in height between the end of the TDI and the center drill is closer to an inch. So the error between the hole pattern and the center of the spindle bore was greater. Much chagrined, I lined up my column again so it's better than half a thou in four inches. The spindle is also lined up to comparable tolerances. I re-cut the index plate and bolt pattern in the pulley this afternoon, and it came out almost perfect. (Close enough that I can't tell, anyway.) Lessons learned... On a more pleasant note, my wife is getting into jewelry making more and more. Last night she was going through some catalogs and making "Hmmm" noises over some tools. She started to show me some of them, and I said, "Got that, don't got that, got that, got that, don't got that, ..." The upshot is that I've already got many of the tools she needed, and she's going to be sharing shop space with me now. I'm looking forward to it. One of the things I lost when I moved from Texas was my shop buddy. The hours pass a lot better when there's someone else in the shop with you. Tom P.S. She couldn't believe how bad my mill column was. Neither could I. ------- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:29:47 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Adjusting Mill headstock? On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, mmurray701 wrote: > I havent really had a need to have my headstock alighned precisely > front to back before but i'm doing a job now where I'd like to have > it a little closer. I know it is off a little. Side to side > adjustment isnt a problem, I'm just wondering about front to back. I > can handle measuring how much its off, just wondering how to correct > it? Any advice? Thanks! A couple of methods come to mind. One is to measure how much it's off, front to back, over a distance equal to the length of the dovetail the headstock fits onto. Let's say it's 0.002". Get some 0.002" shim stock or clip a little off an 0.002" feeler gauge, and use it to shim the dovetail. Now align side-to-side. Put on the headstock and verify. The second is to drill and tap some #10-32 holes in the dovetail the headstock fits onto, and put in some set screws. Use these to adjust front-back angle, then use the normal methods to do side-to-side alignment. Install the headstock and verify. There are likely other ways (and better ways!) Tom ------- Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:03:08 -0000 From: "zzz_zinger" Subject: Assistance, please, on mill alignment List, I have been asked to help solve an alignment problem with a new Taig mill. It seems that I can not offer a solution to this problem and perhaps that someone on this list who is more knowledgable than I am can lend a hand. The following was forwared to me in regards to drilling with the mill: "I guess I am not being very clear about my alignment problem. The Taig table moves in the X and Y axes but remains stationary in the Z- axis. The head moves up and down in the Z-axis. When I drill with a short drill (i.e. a center drill) and then raise the head to insert a longer drill (such as a 1/4th" drill) then lower the head to finish the hole to size, the point of the longer drill does not line up with the starter hole even when I lock the X and Y axes. The new hole seems centered OK on the Y axis but is displaced to the right almost 1/8th". My conclusion is that this is caused because the spindle is not parallel to the column." If anyone can offer advice which I can pass on, it will be appreciated. Thank you. Jim Milne ------- Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:08:13 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Assistance, please, on mill alignment Sounds like the column needs to be trammed in. http://www.cartertools.com/millset.html http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:34:10 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Assistance, please, on mill alignment Having just wrecked two parts from something that sounds exactly like what you're describing, I can second what Nick said. Just in case the party in question says, "But my mill spindle is trammed in just fine!": Keep in mind that the Taig column and the Taig spindle are two separate entities, and one can be trammed in just fine while the other is wildly out of alignment. In my case my mill head was good to 0.001" over a 3" circle, but the column was out of line by a lot. Tramming the column and re-tramming the spindle fixed it. Tom -------- Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:27:13 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re: Mill Motor Can't Pull High Pulley Speed "Lynn Livingston" wrote: >> I got the CNC ready mill about 5 months ago. It's been used manually >> for a few projects and I've never needed to run the spindle at top pulley >> speed. I converted to CNC a few weeks ago and wanted to try engraving. >> That's when I found out the motor doesn't appear to have the >> strength to pull the spindle at the highest pulley speed. >> When I turn the motor on, it just kinda' runs slowly and makes >> noise. When I back the belt down to the next slower speed, it works On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, luisguillermo98 wrote: > I had the same problem. This is because the spidle has not been run > that speed very often.. I had to loose the belt then power the motor > on and them when got high speed tight the belt/screw and is ready. > you have to run the spidle few mores times until it can run by > itself. Run the spidle for few hour on this speed and will work > fine.. remember this is 1/8 hp motor and torque is dramatically > decreased when pulley is changed to 10000rpm.. Heh! Man I'm glad I'm not the only one who did that. When my mill first arrived it wouldn't power on at anything but the bottom speed. I'd shove the motor over, get it running, then shove it back and tension the belt. The whole time I was thinking to myself, "You are definitely getting cheesy now." But it worked! These days my spindle will start at any of the belt settings. I second what Luis says. Tom ------- Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:09:59 -0000 From: "Lynn Livingston" Subject: Re: Mill Motor Can't Pull High Pulley Speed Luis, Tom, You guys were right. I let the mill run for a couple hours this afternoon on the high speed and now it will actually start up there. It stll starts very slow and takes about 4 secs to spool up, but it does get there. Thanks guys, Lynn Livingston ------- Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:31:54 -0000 From: "John Bentley" Subject: Manual mill bearings getting a bit warm on top speed. My new mill runs cold on the five lowest speeds, but the headstock warms at the 5400 rpm belt setting on the standard 1/5 hp Franklin motor. There are no hot spots - the heat oozes through the headstock extrusion and fills the vertical carriage, stopping short of passing into the Z-slide and column, presumably due to the lower thermal conduction of the steel. My lathe isn't used at full speed very often, but don't recall the same bearing warming as I'm getting on the mill. The lathe's original spindle is well worn in, being made in 1986. I replaced that spindle last year and don't think the new one has been run at any length above the third speed. There is no sign of grease leakage from the mill's bearings and the temperature (so far) has only reached a nice comfortable degree to the touch - nothing close to the normal high temperature of the Franklin motor. The heat is definitely is coming from the bearings, not the motor, as I have leather vibration insulation between the motor and its supporting stock. The mill is functioning perfectly and there are no odd noises. I am assuming that the heat is being generated partly because the mill is new and that as long as I don't let it get excessively warm, I won't get into trouble. I doubt the warming will stop entirely in my lifetime - I have a Faneuil watchmaker's lathe that does the same thing, and it was made 102 years ago! Has anyone noticed a similar heating trend with the standard spindle in the manual mill? John ------- Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:27:18 +0000 From: Steve Blackmore Subject: Re: Manual mill bearings getting a bit warm on top speed. >Has anyone noticed a similar heating trend with the standard spindle >in the manual mill? Don't worry about it, same thing as Lynn's problem. It'll get happier when it's run like that for a while. I regularly run mine at 10K rpm. It gets hot, but not damagingly so. I believe the existing bearings are rated for 10K, one of the jobs on my list is to replace the head, spindle and bearings with probably an ER16 spindle. I'd also use high speed bearings. Steve Blackmore ------- Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:52:19 +0000 From: Steve Blackmore Subject: Re: Doh - Missing parts on CNC mill > So I took my mill apart for cleaning, and to install my DeskCNC >servo system onto it, when I realized I managed to loose those little >plastic tubing pieces that goes into forming the coupling between the >servo shaft and the leadscrew shaft. It seems like some sort of >thick tubing, almost like a ball point pen shaft, only much thicker. >I would rather source this material locally if possible, so that I >can be happily making chips on Christmas morning. Can someone give >me the specs for this tubing material? Many thanks! The inners out of Carl Goldberg pushrods (as used in RC Aircraft) fit perfectly & work fine. None came with my mill. Steve Blackmore ------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 03:44:22 -0000 From: "mmurray701" Subject: Removing Headstock Pulley? I was thinking about making some customs pullies and tried to get the original off to get some measurements. I removed the set screw of course and it didnt budge. I then assumed it was a press fit so heated it up. It would turn a little, and after some twisting back and forth i got it off about maybe 3/8". Got really tight after that and I gave up. It didn't just cool down, I tried re-heating. Really surprised they are on there that well. Any tips in removing it? Or could somebody possibly provide a drawing of the internal dimensions? Thanks! Mark ------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:27:53 -0000 From: "Lynn Livingston" Subject: Re: Removing Headstock Pulley? If you didn't file a flat on the spindle shaft before installing the pulley originally, then the set screw has probably raised a burr on the shaft causing interference. If that's the case, you'll probably do better with a gear puller. If you don't have one, try your local AutoZone parts store. They will usually rent or loan one to you. They are available in varying sizes so be sure to get a small one that fits the job. One note though. Since the shaft is hollow, and the puller will want to use the end of the shaft for leverage, you may want to turn some sort of cone plug for the puller screw to bear against. If the puller screw is bullet shaped, you could bore a corresponding shape into the cone plug end to "capture" the puller screw. That will keep the puller screw from wandering while your trying to get it going. Also, if the pulley is really stuck, there might be a chance that the puller screw would put enough pressure on the cone plug to expand the end of the spindle shaft a little. I would again use some heat on the pulley to lessen the force needed for the puller to remove the pulley. You could also make some wood wedges to drive between the spindle housing and the pulley, but this would lead to side loads on the bearings. I don't know for sure what kind of spindle bearings are in the lathe, and I don't know if they are designed for appreciable side loads. This may not be the best of ideas! Regards, Lynn Livingston ------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:30:03 -0000 From: "vks_generic" Subject: Re: Removing Headstock Pulley? I think a gear puller is your friend. When I had to take mine off, I looked in a neighboring hardware store for a puller. $40. ouch. Being cheap, improvised and "made" one with a couple of small clamps, a steel bar a bolt and a nut. It takes a few minutes, but does the job. Internal dimensions? The only "internal" dimension, I guess, is the bore on the pulley, which, I believe, is 5/8". You can measure everything else without removing the pulley. Vlad ------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 06:25:15 -0000 From: "mmurray701" Subject: Re: Removing Headstock Pulley? Thanks for the quick replies guys. This is on a CNC mill and the headstock came pre-assembled. No idea if the flat is there or not. Wood wedges are out of the question I think. Seems to be on there better than that. I do have a puller here that I think would remove it. I considered using this but wanted a second opinion to be sure I wouldn't damage anything. Also, the spindle doesn't extend through the pulley so there is nothing for the puller screw to press against. Can I just thread a blank arbor on and put a piece of rod through the spindle (and resting on the arbor) for the center bolt to go on? When I said internal dimensions I was referring to the two different diameter bores and the length of each. Its not a simple straight through bore. Can somebody confirm the 5/8 bore and tell me the depth of it? I can measure the other bore without removing and I only need the depth of one. If I don't get an answer i'll have to take another stab at removing it. Thanks! Mark ------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:04:04 -0000 From: "stokessd" Subject: Re: Removing Headstock Pulley? As the owner of both the lathe and CNC mill, I notice that the pulley end of the spindle appears to be subtly different on the two. My lathe pulleys slip off and my Mill pulleys are stuck like glue as well. Maybe Nick will weigh in on this one. I am afraid to pull harder than I have on mine and I've gotten no joy on removing them. Sheldon ------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:18:56 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: Removing Headstock Pulley? They made the pulleys almost a shrink fit and put them on with heat. The setscrew has raised a burr. What I do is remove the spindle cartridge from the headstock housing, make a punch that will slip fit in the bore of the pulley but bear against the spindle end and press it out with an arbor press. Wedges may cause problems due to side loads, but a gear puller will work well too (but may mar the pulley edges). http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:41:21 -0000 From: "eferg2001" Subject: Re: Using Taig CNC mill as a manual mill > I have the Micromill 2000LE and lots of times I find that a > manual mill would would be much easier for making some parts. I was > wondering if you guys also use your CNC mills as manual mills? If so, > do you just remove the knobs from the steppers and add the hand > cranks? Does the controller have to be turned while I'm doing manual > milling (so I can release the axis), or can I just leave the > controller turned off? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dan My Taig CNC Mill has Pac-Sci 210 oz. dual shaft steppers. I took the stock Taig hand cranks and added a bronze bushing so they fit the stepper shaft, and drilled / tapped for a set screw. I have Gecko micro-stepping drivers and just turn off the controller when using the cranks. Some folks will tell you that adding the cranks produces a flywheel effect that will cause missed steps. I've made numerous tests with a dial indicator and rapid feeds, and have never missed a step. Regards, Ed Ferguson ------- Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:56:32 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: CNC Mill - Leadscrew nuts > I am intending to upgrade my mill from an Manual unit . > Examining the Taig Mill Parts Diagram and Parts list I notice > different part numbers for the X and Y Leadscrew nuts. > Manual CNC > X 200-23 200-23A > Y 200-22 200-22A > What is the difference and should I get the CNC nuts? The x and y nuts do have different handedness. The CNC nuts are split down the centerline and have screws for adjusting the tightness of the threads on the screw, thus moderating (but not eliminating) backlash. The z-axis uses the weight of the head to eliminate backlash (which is why you shouldn't have the gibs too tight on the z-axis, as that can screw up the backlash) and has the same nut as the manual machine. I think all the nuts, both manual and CNC are made of bronze. If you are converting to CNC you ought to get the CNC nuts, as you will have wear rapidly increasing backlash with the manual nuts... http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:21:16 -0000 From: "scuffer52" Subject: Lead screw nut adjustment/replacement Changing and adjusting the leadscrew nuts for the cnc Taig mill seems to be a common question so I posted some photos(under Greg Miller) of when I changed the Taig cnc leadscrew nuts from the old type to the new adjustable style and also include some steps I used to adjust them for backlash. The bearings should also be examined for play and after everything is adjusted there is also the choice of using the backlash compensation from the controller software MPS2000. I am no professional, just muddled through this myself so if anyone has something to add please join in.... Cheers, Greg Miller, Vancouver ------- Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:06:36 -0000 From: "Robin S." Subject: Re: How to machine faster on taig cnc mill? --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "asrpas" wrote: > Could someone advice best strategy for machining large pockets in > aluminum. It seems to be taking long time to machine on Taig CNC > mill. I'm not sure if I'm using right cutters, feed & speeds as follows: > Cutter: Carbide 2 flute slot cutter specially deisgned for Aluminum > with 45 degree flute angle. > Diameter: 1/4" (wish I could use large cutter but restricted because > of few islands sticking in the pockets) > Depth of cut : 1/8"x 2 cuts total depth 1/4". (theoretically I should > be able to cut in a single depth of cut but taig fails to take a deep > cut even thou I'm using a steep ramp angle to plung-in) > Feed & Speed: RPM 8000, Feed 60 IPM. Step over: 0.15" (60% of cutter dia) > Machining pocket sizes: 2"x10"x0.25" deep Cooling: Mist cooling > As I'm not convinced with the time it takes. I'll appereciate if > someone could share the experience to reduce the timing somehow. Is > it faster to machine slowly with deep cuts or machine faster with > light cuts. Thanks in advance. You should seriously consider a roughing endmill to rough out the pocket. They cut more efficiently so that you can run faster and take a heavier DOC with the very limited HP of the Taig or any other desktop machine. You should experiment with your cycle - take heavier DOC's and slow down your feed and speed. Typically you will increase the life of your cutter by taking a heavier DOC. Speaking of, you should try HSS tooling. It is typically sharper than carbide and the Taig isn't exactly very well suited to running cutters that require high power spindles. Listen to your machine. This is what the feed override is for. Play with it. Listen for the spindle and axis drives bogging down. You should be able to use max HP in your situation. Anything less is a waste of time. HTH. Regards, Robin ------- Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:47:31 -0000 From: "double_down_2x" Subject: Re: Flood Coolant Recovery on a Mill --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "buddyborders" wrote: > I have seen various posts that refer to using flood coolant while > cutting the part. I know this makes a mess and have been looking > through the photos and files sections looking for ideas on how the > coolant recovery is done and filtered. Thank you, Buddy Philadelphia, PA Buddy, the way I have my setup is I used a plastic bin (39"x18"x6")that I bought at Target store for around $10, and built a box stand out of aluminum angle about 3.5" high for the mill to sit on. I made a couple of rectangle box screens out of small aluminum angle to put on each size of the mill to catch the chips. The coolant is in the plastic bin below the screen. For a coolant pump, I used a small fountain pump with a small hose connected to the Z-axis that can quickly detach when needed. To keep the coolant from going everywhere, I surrounded the bin with plastic curtain, and made sure the plastic is inside the plastic bin. The reason I used plastic curtain is it is easy to remove when I need to oil the back side of the X axis way. It would be nice if I can find a bin that is 4'x2'x6". With the setup I have now, the Y axis sticks out of the bin just a little. Have fun with your new mill. Jon ------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:56:28 +0930 From: "Eric Parsonage" Subject: t nuts I notice that Sherline sells T Nuts in packets of 10; does anybody know if Taig do the same ? If not will the Sherline T Nuts fit a Taig Mill ? Regards Eric -------- Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:53:36 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: t nuts Sherline t-nuts will not fit the mill. You should just make nuts yourself out of 1/2" x 1/4" bar stock cut into 3/4" lengths and drilled and tapped either #10-32 or 1/4"-20 see: http://www.cartertools.com/picture.html#MCT http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:55:31 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: New Article: Faking a Fourth Axis on the Taig CNC Mill I've been having fun in the shop, see my new article: "Faking a Fourth Axis on the Taig CNC Mill": http://www.cartertools.com/fake4th.html As usual, let me know if I have any errors, poor math, etc, etc. See our web pages http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:51:45 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: New Article: Faking a Fourth Axis on the Taig CNC Mill Definitely good! But you didn't have anything about not mirroring your toolpath! (Sorry, Tony... Hadda... Especially after I made the same mistake and put my name backward on a part I'd spent hours on.) Tom ------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:54:24 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: New Article: Faking a Fourth Axis on the Taig CNC Mill Absolutely... Just shows the value of testing your setup on a piece of scrap before you screw up the hours of work put into that lovingly crafted part... Regards, Tony ------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:20:35 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: New Article: Faking a Fourth Axis on the Taig CNC Mill At 17:50 29/04/2004, you wrote: >I guess it didn't occur to me that it was possible - the Sherline table >worked fine without me thinking about it, come to think of it, the rotation >is clockwise when the handle is turned clockwise - how is Tony's dividing >head different? All my rotary tables have the same movement.... It all depends how the motor is wired & how the software that controls that axis is set up. I had to mount the motor the other way around to un-mirror the image, but I could have achieved the same result by either telling the software that the Y axis leadscrew was the opposite handedness, or by reversing the connections on one of the motor phases. I figured that as my dividing head had the option of mounting the motor either way around, that was the simplest solution. I guess you lucked out by getting it right first time. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:22:39 -0000 From: "andesign2" Subject: Y-axis backlash adjustment I have a CNC taig mill and would like to adjust the y-axis backlash. How do you go about adjusting the y-axis nut? I have already removed any play at the bearing. I just don't see how you can get to the nut without taking the whole mill apart. I have never taken the mill completely apart. Am I missing something? Thank you, Jason ------- Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:35:52 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Y-axis backlash adjustment You do pretty much have to take the mill apart, at least part way. You need to unscrew the y-axis bearing block, preferably unscrew the y-axis leadscrew (to avoid accidentally damaging it) and slide the y-axis off its slide. Then flip it over. Re-insert the screw, taking all and every care to avoid bending it accidentally, and then adjust the nut on the screw (unscrew the center setscrew a tiny part of a turn and screw in the two cap screws again a tiny amount, say 1/32 of a full rotation, then retighten the center setscrew) - do not overtighten the nut! usually you need only the tiniest adjustment to remove backlash, and it should still screw smoothly on - any tightness is bad. You could probably just slide the y-axis halfway off it's slide and adjust from underneath, but taking it apart is easier and then you can clean up any stray chips, relube, etc... How much backlash do you have - don't bother if it is under about .004" See our web pages http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:57:46 -0500 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: RE: Zeroing mill dial >From: "ccarlile1" >The Y-axis dial on my Taig mill is very stiff and dificult to zero. >Cleaning and re-oiling does not help. I can't find any obvious >adjustments. Can anyone help? Thanks, Clay I think you mean the collar on your resetable handwheels. (?) You may need to take the collar off and clean the swarf that has collected under it. To take the collar off, remove the hanwheel after lining up the setscrew hole in the handwheel. Remove the handwheel with an allen wrench. Remove the collar by removing the pinch wheel on the front of the handwheel and slide the collar off. Don't use any oil on the surface where the collar rides, it should be dry and clean (no chips). Bad Brad Rabid Weasel Racing Team ------- Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:22:26 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: mill handcrank removal From: "Chris Abbott" > Once I have the locknut off the end of the shaft, how do I get the > handcrank off the leadscrew? I must be missing something obvious, but > I don't want to damage the shaft threads in the process. > It's a 2019CR and I'm about to install the stepper mounts. I have the > stepper mounting instructions, but I expected the handcranks to come > off fairly easily. Will be using a Xylotex board to drive the axes. > Thanks in advance. ChrisA Mississauga You should be able to just pull it off, possibly some cutting oil has gotten in and varnished everything together. Spray some WD-40 and try pulling it straight off. See our web pages http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:31:43 -0000 From: "rrrevels" Subject: Re: mill handcrank removal The hand wheels should slip off. I just finished CNCing my mill a couple of weeks ago. One note, concerning the z axis. The shaft will slip down through the collar if you aren't careful. I had to lift the head stock and tap the ring to get the shaft high enough for the keyway to be visible. I had let it slip without realizing it. You may have to pry the handwheel but be easy, it is just stuck. Lift on the handwheel and tap the shaft with a rubber mallet should come right off. Also I am not a machinist and when I replaced the handwheels with the couplers and stepper adapter I didn't think about the nut fitting between the couplers. I had to take everything apart and fix it. I am using the xylotex board with a 24v ps and a 486-100 laptop and turbocnc with 187 oz/in steppers. It works well I don't try to push it but it appears to give me 25ipm rapids and a 10ipm cut with no problems. Russ ------- Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:56:23 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re: mill handcrank removal >Once I have the locknut off the end of the shaft, how do I get the >handcrank off the leadscrew? I must be missing something obvious, but >I don't want to damage the shaft threads in the process. As an Ex machine repairman in a GM tool room, I would like to offer a tip for removing anything from a threaded shaft. Screw on a plain nut so it fully covers the threads before tapping, pounding, etc. This will prevent banging up the threads. Even a rubber mallet, wood mallet, etc can sometimes mar the threads. If you need to use a puller, get a threaded coupling that fits the threads and screw a sacrificial screw in opposite to the shaft threads. I don't like prying things off a shaft. You can easily bend a small threaded shaft like the Taig leadscrews. The handles should just slip off like most said. Just don't make the mistake that I made with the first one of trying push everything through the bushing block (older machine with bushing vs bearings on the screw) The woodruff key jammed up pretty good on that try. Don ------- Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 20:30:04 -0000 From: "Jim Stoll" Subject: Re: mill handcrank removal Don't feel too bad Chris - I had my machine about 50% torn apart (trying to remove the cranks) before sanity prevailed and I got on the phone w/ Nick - who patiently explained to me that they were just a little stuck on the shaft and would slide right off if I would please just stop trashing my brand-new machine... ;-) I was sure that there was some hidden piece somewhere down in the bowels of the machine that was responsible for the cranks not coming off... <:-) Sure enough, a few taps w/ a wooden mallet and off they popped! Enjoy! Jim ------- NOTE TO FILE: The thread "Re: Collet Precision - CNC Mill" started in the taigtools group in July 2004 and was recorded in my text file "Cutters, Collets and Arbors" because the info was of interest to any brand of small lathe or milling machine. Please read it there. ------- Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:05:31 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: locking the column [taigtools group] At 06:40 03/08/2004, campgems wrote: >>Well, I get to re-align my column and head again. I was doing some one line moves and bit off a bit more cut than the spindle motor would handle. It stalled and the X kept moving and whacked the column about 5 degrees out of alignment before I could smash the stop button. My question is, has anyone pinned the colmun to the base? I think I heard on the list that you should not overtighten the lock nut, so I am looking for a little more positive lock for the column. I don't think I would ever need to move the column for angle cutting, but would rather not make the pin something that would be dificult to remove if I did want to change the angle. << You certainly could lock the column by drilling & doweling it at the base. However, you must consider the consequences of this, namely, that if the column doesn't give, then something else surely will. Depending upon the size of the tooling you are using at the time, what gives could be the end mill (relatively not a problem - just a few $$ down the drain), or you could end up damaging the headstock/spindle itself (more expensive). For my money, I prefer the safety factor of having the column go out of alignment when I screw up, rather than some potentially more serious damage. The other point, obviously, is that if you do go down the locking route, you'd better be sure the alignment is perfect before you drill the dowel hole, otherwise you will have a rigid, but perfectly misaligned column... Regards, Tony ------- Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 14:28:01 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: locking the column Tony, I am going to have respectfully disagree with you. End mills tend to grab metal and pull into the stock rather than push away. To have a column that will move into the stock under load is dangerous and has a good chance of causing all of the problems you have described. I have never owned a Taig mill but have worked on two of them each having Don's problem. I resolved the problem by bolting a angle plate on the side of the column as well as one on the base with mating surfaces that are bolted together. This limited the range you could tilt the column but did resolve the problem. It was done this way as a cost saving approach per owner request. Personally I would have welded in two larger solid blocks of steel, one on the column one on the base locked together with a larger fine thread bolt. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:21:00 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Re: locking the column Jerry - I would absolutely agree with you that running the mill with the column so loose that it won't resist normal cutting forces is a very dangerous thing to do. That is not what I was suggesting. In my experience of owning and using a Taig CNC mill, and having experienced the very problem that Don identified, the X axis on a CNC'd Taig is perfectly capable of shoving the Z out of alignment when the column is clamped much more tightly than would be required to resist cutting forces even on heavy cuts. I have never, to date, had the column shift out of alignment due to a cutter grab of the kind you describe; I have, however, knocked it out of alignment on more than one occasion by being over enthusiastic with the FPM setting when cutting a part. As I said, under those conditions, where you have a hefty stepper winding a 20 IPM screw, something is going to give if the column is locked up solid. My personal preference is to go for the minor job of realigning the column when that happens. So we will have to agree to disagree ;-) Regards, Tony ------- Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:32:41 -0000 From: "n2562001" Subject: Re: locking the column Tony, no problem. Both of these machines were used for manual machining. When the column would move slightly the end mill would pull deeper and deeper into the stock until everything locked up. The column locking bolts were very tight to the point of causing damage. Both of these people should have purchased much larger machines for what they were trying to machine. Jerry Kieffer ------- Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 05:54:11 -0000 From: "campgems" Subject: Re: locking the column >>You certainly could lock the column by drilling & doweling it at the base. However, you must consider the consequences of this, namely, that if the column doesn't give, then something else surely will.<< Yes, I've thought of that. Usually, with the work I do, it's the mill. Most of my work is done with under 1/8" mills. However, why is it OK for the column to give with X movement and not with Y movement? I haven't seen anything about damaging anything with a stalled mill like this, or even knocking things out of alignment. This time, I was using a 7/16" to face off an aluminum T nut I am making to mount a quick change tool post on a Atlas 6" I just bought. This is the second time I've knocked off the column. The first was before I converted it to cnc. I was cranking what turned to be a dull bit along a piece of steel. Again making some T nuts (Humm, could it be I shouldn't make T nuts?). Anyway, I never felt any back pressure on the crank. I was watching the mill, and it seemed to stop moving along the work, but I was still cranking. When I stepped back and looked, the column was jacked out of alignment. I am surprised at how easy it is to knock the column off alignment. I suspect that the very large surface on the joint, while providing a much more stable alining platform, is dissipating the load of the single screw to the point of not holding very well. This is compounded by the fact I put some Anti Seize compound on the face to prevent the rust that I cleaned off from returning. I've got to clean it up and restore an un-lubricated metal to metal joint. That should help a bit. I am still considering pinning the column, but only for restoring it to alignment and then remove the pin for use. Humm, might be good to set it up with pins at 15, 30, and 45 degrees on both sides. That would give a quick way to put the column over and then return it without too much effort. I think I'll use a #4 taper pin. I'll align the column at each increment and drill the pilot hole, using the first hole in the column as a drill guide. Then go back and align the column at each increment and this time ream the hole. I'll have to use a stop on the reamer so each hole is reamed to the same depth. Don ------- Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:44:55 -0000 From: "asrpas" Subject: Backlash fixup on taig mill Hi, I had a hard time fixing backlash on my taig mill. After tweaking with brass nut for many hours still I was getting fair bit amount of backlash. At the end I managed to find the problem was the "brass nut was loose in the table hole" and sadly Taig has peened the top of brass nut to make it look like tight rather replacing the whole nut. It was worn out after some time and was adding up the backlash error, eventually I put some Loctite around to make it tight and working like charm now. I thought to mention could save time for someone else. Thanks Rick ------- Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:41:30 -0000 From: "dhkoizumi" Subject: Re: Extender block for milling head --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "rrrevels" wrote: > Is it practical to add a 1" spacer block between the head mounting > dove tail block and Z rail of the mill to increase the radius of a > circle cut? I made the spacer block for the y axis and it works well > but I still need more clearance between the spindle and the verticle > support beam. TIA Russ Pensacola, Fl Russ, Taig makes this spacer -- part number 1250. Nick at Carter Tools also carries this part for $23.75. I'm currently using it on my Taig mill. Nick posted pictures of my setup on his website (just search under Pictures and David Koizumi). You can see the riser block on the mill. I've weighted the X and Y axes of the mill to eliminate physical backlash. I also compensated the Z axis for the weight of the motor (5 pounds exactly). This really smoothes out Z axis travel by eliminating the offset weight. There's enough uncompensated weight on the Z axis to eliminate backlash. For the money spent on this mill I get just insanely accurate repeatabilties. ------- Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:00:39 -0000 From: "Shawn Lammers" Subject: Re: Hand Wheels for Taig Mill "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" wrote: > The Sherline handwheels work well, but why do you need knobs? You > can just jog the axis under CNC control. There are times when I would rather just do a simple milling operation manually. The knobs are just too slow for this. Do you think the weight of the hand wheels would degrade the performance of the mill? I am worried that they may be too heavy and cause the steppers to stall under fast acceleration. Shawn -------- Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:09:12 -0800 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: Re: Hand Wheels for Taig Mill The Taig handcranks are too heavy and can cause a flywheel effect, of course you could rig up a way to just slip them on and off. The Sherline handwheels are lightweight. You could also just make your own handcranks from aluminum.... Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 02:40:14 -0000 From: "eferg2001" Subject: Re: Hand Wheels for Taig Mill > Does anyone know where I can buy some hand wheels for the Taig CNC > Mill? The little dial knobs it comes with just are not cutting it. On my Taig CNC mill I adapted the stock hand cranks to the ends of my dual shaft stepper motors. I found some bronze bushings at the hardware store that were a perfect fit, then drilled and tapped the cranks for a set screw. I've done a lot of testing with a dial indicator, as well as a lot of milling, and never lost a step. I just don't see a flywheel effect. My 210 oz PacSci steppers stop where they should. I think it would take a bit more mass to make the stepper skip. Ed Ferguson ------- Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:00:42 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: My Z is stuck!!! On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, smocksam wrote: > Well, I've got an issue with my CNC micromill and am not sure what the > deal is. My Z axis doesn't want to go up. It will move down smoothly, > but won't move "up" at all. I took the motor off and can rotate the > lead screw by hand, but it's VERY hard to do so. > My guess is I've got something caught in the leadscrew, however I could > be way off. I really need to get this thing up and running ASAP. Anyone > have any insight as to try? > How far do I want to take it apart before I get myself in trouble? > I've also adjusted the gibbs, but it doesn't seem to help any since the > problem is only in the "up" direction?? Quick question: If you grab the headstock and try to rock it back and forth, basically rotating it, does it move? I haven't had this happen on my mill, but I did have this happen on my shaper. It would stick going down, but move going up. I thought the gibs were too tight. Turns out they were too loose. The cross-slide was cocking when it moved up, making it bind. But it was smooth going down. Go figure. Best way to set your Z axis gibs: Remove the headstock from the dovetail and remove the leadscrew. Tony Jeffree showed me a neat way to do this. Loosen the screws that hold the leascrew bearing plate on, and use your CNC controller to jog the leascrew off the nut. At this point you have the Z ways and the Z carriage, but nothing else there. If it's too loose, you will be able to feel it move by hand. If it's too tight, it should be tough to move in both directions. Once your gibs are set, replace the leadscrew/motor assembly and replace the headstock. Any time you replace your headstock, it's worth taking the time to tram the Z column and to tram the headstock. These are separate things and can be set separately. (This can bite you in the butt, as I found out one time.) To tram the Z column, stick a square on your mill table and put a TDI on the Z slide. Run the Z slide up and down with the TDI touching the square. Any run-out should be apparent. If for any reason you don't trust your square, repeat the test with the square on the other side of the column. If you get identical runout, but in the opposite direction, your column's square and your square is not a 90.000 degree angle. (I used this trick to check my "square", which is just a toolmaker's vise stood up on end. Turns out it's good to better than half a thou across 4".) Once your column is trammed, you can tram the headstock. Mount a TDI in the collet on the headstock and use it to sweep the mill table. Except where you hit the T-slots, you should be able to get the same reading all the way around the circle. Adjust the dovetail as needed. The reason I mention this is after setting my mill up after a move (which included adjusting the gibs on all three axes), I wound up in a condition where the Z column was out of square by several thou per inch, but the headstock was trammed true. What this meant was when I switched from an endmill to a drill bit, I'd get some gawdawful offset on my tool position. A little off the topic of the question, but if I can spare anyone the number of scrapped parts I generated during that time, all to the better. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:42:20 -0500 From: "Tim Goldstein" Subject: Re: Re: 142 OZ. Steppers..enough for Taig Mill? A very confusing subject and usually answered by people that do not have experience with a vast array of configurations. I have personnally run everything from 114 oz in to 238 oz/in motors as well as half step, microstep, Xylotex, Gecko, API and various no name Japanese and Chinese drives. Have also used voltages from 24 - 60 VDC. Bottom line is a big motor is NOT a cure all. Here is my summary. When using motors that are appropriately matched to the drive and using a modern microstep driver (Different story with a half step drive) running at the same voltage you will get more RPM out of the motor with the smaller motor. As you move to larger motors (higher inductance) you will reach a point at which your maximum rapid will actually decrease. When looking at it from a realistic cutting speed the more powerful motor will have more thrust. By way of example, with a Xylotex drive, 30 VDC supply I get the following max reliable rapids on my 2019CR X and Y: 114 oz/in 24ipm 138 oz/in 54 ipm 214 oz/in 24 ipm (was a slightly higher inductance motor for the size) 238 oz/in 36 ipm The difference is at 10ipm cutting speed the smallest motor can probably only break a 1/8" end mill. The middle motor can probably snap a 3/16" end mill. The 214 motor can probably break a 1/4" end mill. and I thing the biggest could ruin a 3/8" end mill. I regularly cut 6061 aluminum with a Sherline headstock on my Taig using the 138 oz/in motors and take off .050" deep and the full width of a 3/8" end mill at 10 ipm without ever missing a step. Bottom line. Best all around performance with a Xylotex in my experience is when using motor in the mid 100 oz/in range. The bigger motor actually lowers the all around performance as the rapid speeds go down. Funny part is I have discussed this with some of the suppliers and we all agree what while the above is true it is easier to just sell the customers the big honking motors they want and not waste our time trying to convince them of reality. Tim [Denver, CO] Sherline & Taig products at Discount Taig 2019CR mills in stock for immediate shipment at 5% off list. Mach1 & DeskCNC with credit card ordering www.KTMarketing.com/order ------- Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:00:15 -0000 From: "danmauch" Subject: Re: 142 OZ. Steppers..enough for Taig Mill? Tim's answer is very good. There is one other factor that one should look at when buying a stepper motor. That is the speed torque curve for the motor. For instance I sell a brand of motor that has two motors rated at 157 oz in. When wired bipolar series one draws .7A and thus has high inductance. The other with the same torque wired the same way draws 2.1A but is low inductance. The difference on the speed curve is that the one that draws .7A has 22 oz in of torque at 10000 steps per second whereas the 2.1A motor has 45 oz in of torque at 10000 steps per second. Interestingly, both motors cost the same. Dan Camtronics Inc www.seanet.com/~dmauch ------- Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 04:26:15 -0000 From: "tbitz" Subject: My New Taig Mill bearing runout is 0.002" Hi folks, I'm new to the group. Just got my CNC ready Taig Mill and I'm setting things up. I put a dial indicator on a 1/4" HSS milling cutter in a 1/4" collet and measured a 0.002" run out just under the collet. Taig specs the bearing runout as 0.0004" max. I'm getting four times more? I tried another collet with a different shaft I machined on my lathe and got the same 0.002". Can this be fixed? On a positive note, I have got the table within 0.001" relative to 6" from the spindle. That seems good enough, I think. Thanks, Tony ------- Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 22:42:33 -0600 From: Gene Furr Subject: Re: My New Taig Mill bearing runout is 0.002" Tony, I had the same problem with new collets. If you will check you might see the slots are not clean out very good and that keeps them from clamping even. I would check the spindle run out with out a collet in it. Gene ------- Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:05:58 -0600 From: Gene Furr Subject: Re: Re: My New Taig Mill bearing runout is 0.002" >How do you check the spindle runout without any collet? I mean where do you >place the dial indicator, there isn't enough material to make contact. Tony Tony, It is close but put your dial indicator point inside the spindle where the collet goes. Gene ------- Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:55:49 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: My New Taig Mill bearing runout is 0.002" Hi Tony, I see some folks already mentioned cleaning the collets, which is good advice. You might gently run a fingertip over the perimeter of the collet checking for a burr on a slot, and also take a good look in the end of the spindle for any bits of crud. Double check the collet is clean inside as well, and that the slots are cut cleanly. 2 thou is pretty big, my lathe is pretty well used and has maybe a few tenths max with a collet. One gent who was new to Taig was having a runout problem, it seems he was mounting the collet backwards, so the flat face of the collet was going into the spindle. IIRC he was having quite a bit more runout than you, but it's been a while. Took a while to sort that one out, but figured tossing it out won't do harm and might be helpful :-) Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 07:05:59 -0000 From: "timgoldstein" Subject: Re: Backlash adjustment --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "bitshird" wrote: > I've tried adjusting the nuts at the > end of the screws, it almost feels like the screws are slightly out > of round, they hit slight binds in different places, The Mill has > about 150 or maybe 200 hours cutting wax and a few hours cutting Aluminum. > what should the backlash be on a lightly used machine?? and how the > blazes can I get it there? .001 or .002" backlash on a conventional leadscrew ain't at all bad. The nuts at the ends of the leadscrews that hold on either the cranks or the motor coupler (depending if CNC or not) are NOT what you use to adjust the backlash. What you have done is overloaded the bearings in the thrust block assemble. Loosen those nuts back up and tighten them down just enough to very lightly load the bearings so there is no play or binding. What you need to adjust is the preload on the lead nuts. The nuts are slit lengthwise with 2 cap screws pinching them tigher and one that forces them back open. For the X axis I just undo the 2 capscrews that hold the plate on the right end of the table to it and slide the table off to the left. You can then access the nut to make your adjustment. For the Y I undo the same capscrews that hold the plate to the base on the from of the mill and pull the whole saddle and motor off the base. Flip it over and adjust away. Tim [Denver, CO] www.KTMarketing.com/order ------- Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:23:38 -0800 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: Re: Backlash adjustment 150 to 200 hours isn't exactly light use... I hope you maintained the mill during that time and made sure the slides were lubed - if not then you probably have some localized wear - additionally if the mill table only moved a couple of inches in the same spot (if you didn't make sure to move the workpieces around to equalize the wear) then you will probably have some local wear on the leadscrew. The upshot? .002 backlash on the Taig is well within acceptable limits and easily dealt with through the backlash compensation in your software. The less backlash, the more wear over time as well. Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:58:00 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Minimum end mill size for use on Taig mill? On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, codeSuidae wrote: >> As far as coolants go, the best coolant by far is water. It won't let >> a part get over 100 deg C without boiling (which takes quite a bit of >> energy). > Sounds like I can just try water when I need it. I'd still look into getting some soluble oil to mix with it. Most of the parts that get soggy on the Taig are anodized aluminum, but there are still some steel bits that would benefit from the oil in the coolant. A gallon of a typical soluble oil from a place like Enco is about $35-45, but at the rate a home shop uses the stuff, a gallon can last for a decade or so. >> Funny you mention coolants! We've had a nice thread on flood and mist >> cooling systems recently. > I caught some of that, I'd be interested in seeing some pictures of your > setup. I'm not sure that I'll need anything with that kind of volume > any time soon, but it would be cool to see how you've got it configured. I'll take pictures this weekend and either post them to the taig photos list or send them to Nick. > These will be mostly one-offs. The idea is to set them up for good > looks rather than high performance, so the detailing is more critical. I > expect that they'll take me quite a bit of effort to produce, so not > many people would be willing to pay for them. Anyway, for me the > attraction of custom rims is that they are custom, nobody else has a set > just like 'em :) Know whatcha mean. I'd still like to make a really nice custom set for my XMod. > These will be more for the Bit Char-G/Zip Zap sized stuff, much lower > end than the Mini-Z, but with what appears to be a fairly wide user base > (its easy for people to get into a car that only costs 25 bucks). > Fortunately, since I don't have any desire to produce these in any kind > of volume its just that microscopic detail that I'm looking for. YIKES! Those things are TINY! Yeah, I can see why you'd need the microscopic tooling. Here's an idea for making really small tools: If you can stand to have non-vertical walls, v-tip cutters are a lot more robust than an end mill with the equivalent tip diameter. The most common V-tip cutters are 90 and 60 degree angle tips. But you can grind a V-tip cutter any way you want. A couple of people, like http://www.cnconabudget.com sell cutters with smaller angles, so you can get your walls closer to vertical and still have a pretty strong cutter. If you want to make your own, I've found a good source of 1/8" carbide stock are those 50-piece assortments you can get from Harbor Freight, Woodcraft, and practically anyone else. They're carbide regrinds from the PCB industry. The cutters themselves are good to have around, and when you snap one it becomes raw material for making v-tip cutters. Only catch is you have to use silicon carbide or diamond to grind the things. It's probably horrifically unprofessional of me to admit this, but I got a diamond cutoff wheel for a Dremel, chucked it in a flex shaft handpiece and mounted it on the compound on my lathe, and use that setup to grind custom cutters. The finish isn't as nice as you'd get from a fine silicon carbide wheel, but it works and can crank out a V-tip cutter in about ten minutes. > Thanks for the info, I've got an idea of what I should get for cutters > (I have a feeling I'll be breaking quite a few of them). I'll take > pictures if I manage to produce anything interesting CS Sounds like a plan. And I'll try to post info on the flood cooling setup I made. Tom -------- [NOTE TO FILE: Tom's coolant message is in Taig Modifications General file.] -------- Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 18:28:08 -0800 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: Cross Slide nut? [taigtools] "jdholbrook33" wrote: > In putting together my Taig lathe I am finding that the Crosslide > Screw Nut (100-25) is a very tight fit in the crosslide. In it's > present state it will not swivel or move in any way. > Is this normal or do I need to "adjust" it a little? I find that if you deburr the edge of the hole it goes into, and lightly sand the post with 600 grit sandpaper (no coarser) then it assembles better - you don't want the post loose in the hole or it will add to backlash, but by tweaking the fit you will get a better assembly and it will self compensate for small misalignments better. Taig says they just hammer it in with a soft face hammer, but given that it is my #1 service issue, I would say that it is a good idea to pay attention to it. While you are at it, lap the interface between the crosslide screw and the bearing block, and the dial and bearing block, that makes it much smoother as well. Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:40:48 -0000 From: "jdholbrook33" Subject: Re: t-slot size for taig mill?? Tailor-made for the Taig. Have you looked at this setup? http://www.robitek.com/productsmillaccessories.htm ------- Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:59:35 -0700 From: "Derek" Subject: New Taig Tooling Plate I posted some pictures of the new Taig Tooling Plate I made. You can see them in the photo section of the Taigfiles group. This is a 5"x18"x.5" plate with T-slots and 10-32 tapped holes. It is also able to mount a Sherline Rotary table directly to the plate. [RUN NEXT 2 LINES TOGETHER, NO SPACE.] Derek ------- Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 22:23:49 -0600 From: "Kenneth Ferrell" Subject: Re: Re: HELP...X-Axis won't keep it's value On the newer style tapered gib, could someone define "tight" as in a relative value? Like wow much torque should be applied to the gib adjusting screws, or should they just be snug to the gib with perhaps 2 to 4 ft. pounds per screw < not hard to do with the supplied 5/32nd hex head wrench > or should the torque be more or less?? Of course these values would only pertain to the newer tapered gib machines, but would this torque value also be applicable to the Z column? Perhaps if someone could answer this question it would make adjusting the gibs a tad easier! My personal experience (which doesn't mean much) because I've only been working with my Taig for about 6 months, has led me to believe that over tightening the gib screws on the X or Z which are tapered, and are adjusted by the act of moving the tapered gib from end to end, that even once you get the X axis to slide with slight tension but no binding spots the by wrenching the screws to I would venture to say perhaps 8 to 10 FT.LBS. seems to distort the gibs and forces the gibs to become over tight, creating binds at the extreme ends of the table travel, so I wonder if the same holds true for the Z axis? I think this is where either one of the forum brains, or possibly a representative from Taig could offer some very helpful advice, because there are some of us who really need help. Same question about the preload bearings what's the difference between snug and tight, how much play should there be? There have been some excellent advisements on adjusting the lead screw / split nut, and the images posted on adjusting the column and X axis gibs have been fantastic and very helpful, if we could define specific values or even approximate values to TIGHT then I think this would give some of us newbie's a leg up on adjustments, IMHO Thanks Ken "bitshird" Ferrell ------- Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:40:27 +0000 From: Clive Foster Subject: Tightness of Gib Adjustment I don't think torque settings are going to be as big a help as might naively be expected. Trouble is the variation between bit loose, just right, and getting too tight is also covered by the variation in what might be called "gib stickiness" between mills in response to the adjustments. Due to manufacturing and fit variations on individual mills the gib to slide pinch response to a given torque on the adjuster will not be the same. Trying to adjust out a recurring problem is usually futile unless the recurrence is 'cos you are doing it wrong. Far better to get the magnifying glass out and look closely at everything to find the real cause. In my experience the only way to get a gib adjusted properly is to remove the feed-screws and do the job by hand, twisting to feel for play and pushing it backwards and forwards to locate when stiffness sets in. With any affordably priced machine it's usually worthwhile taking a very close look at the various fits and finishes involved in the gib region. Ideally the gib should sit exactly in its recess butting hard up against all the stop faces with no more than about 5 thous worth of clearance to take up from full loose to properly adjusted. The gib also needs to be stabilised against side movement with dowels or clamp bolts. Realistically you only get that level of quality out of the box on high priced, high accuracy machines but, assuming the basic slide-ways are accurate, you can fettle a more ordinary machine pretty close with a bit of time and care. Careful fitting will allow you to run the gibs with a much tighter adjustment setting and will let the machine run far longer between adjustment sessions. The tiny fitting discrepancies in a standard factory machine mean the the slides have to be run a bit looser to avoid tight spots and the like which means things "work" more causing the adjustments to go off. It's all rather precise. The difference between "economically viable for a factory" and "really well fettled" is about half the thickness of the oil film. Well into tenths thou territory here. So far my Taig is OK but when it needs adjustment it's getting the whole nine yards. Clive ------- Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:05:28 -0800 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: Emergency Belts... >>>I broke my last Mill belt >>>while waiting for the bunch I ordered from Taig to arrive... >>How do you manage to break one? I've had one running well over 2000 >>hours . Either too tight or misaligned maybe? Steve Blackmore > How tight is the belt supposed to be? Bruce I find about a 1/4" of deplection when pressed between the pulleys with one finger is about right. It is really important that both pulleys be algned so the grooves are in the same plane. I have noticed that where the lathe belts rarely break, I get some customers with broken mill belts, it may have something to do with the much higher speeds of the CNC mill. Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:29:55 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Larry Richter Subject: RE: Emergency Belts... You're supposed to be able to deflect the belt inward with your finger and have them spring back when the drive is stopped and tensioned right. Hard to do for some people, since belts have a reputation for taking fingers off when they are touched when running, and there is that old story about wise cats being careful about hot stoves and cold stoves both. V-belts tighten themselves to something like the correct tension while running. The "V" shape of the belt cross section, the matching cross section of the pulley groove, and the pull of the motor and resistance of the load make the belt travel deeper down in the grooves and grip them by increased friction, if the surfaces are clean and right. The belt loop actually loosens on the return side because of this. It's a goal of adjustment to keep this looseness low enough that the return leg of the belt can't ride up the edge of the pulley and dismount itself, like a bicycle tire being pulled off a rim. This hurts the core of the belt, where cordage or fabric provides its strength. It also hurts belts to slip them this way when changing belt speeds, although with a fixed belt tensioning system like the Taig's people always have and always will, I expect, when in a hurry or they can't lay hands on the tool this second. Excess looseness damages the belt through slippage, heating, and frictional wear, once again like a tire. Extreme load that causes slippage does the same. The surplus dealers in Lincoln, Nebraska have another version of the 2 1/2 HP treadmill motor that we use, one that has a tightening quadrant on its motor mount, instead of the more conventional mounting plate. It looks something like the quadrant on an automobile alternator: http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=20050324120 11484&item=10-1783-A&catname=electric [run 2 lines together, no space] You don't have to send to Taig to get belts, by the way. The Taigs all use standard Gates belts. This brand is widely distributed in America, also world wide, and is probably copied in cross section and sizes where it has competition. The industrial supply company I bought the 3/4" bore lathe bearings from here carries Gates belts. BTW, those inch bore bearings are 2RS, which is the original lathe bearing specification, and good for whatever the original bearings would do. So a US measurement ER16 spindle can be built with off the shelf components by Steve Blackmore's method, though it's a question how long it would run at 10,000 RPM. ------- Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:03:58 +0000 From: Steve Blackmore Subject: Re: Emergency Belts... > though it's a question how long it would run at 10,000 RPM. The bearings I got are rated at 10,000 with grease, 18,000rpm oiled. Life depends on load, temperature, seal type etc. They've been well used now, with no adverse effect and would imagine they'll still be in use next year. The majority of my work is between 5-15Krpm. Even if they die after a year - at $15 and half an hour to change - so what ;) Steve Blackmore ------- Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:41:52 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: ''TAIG MILL'' can it go the distance? On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, ballypatricktollymore wrote: > I am considering buying a ''PEATOL'' i/e ''TAIG''mill,cost and dire lack > of room being the main reasons. It will be used mainly in the manual > mode for building small stationary steam engines,castiron steel e.t.c. > Can you give your comments good or bad,as to the capabilities of the > machine,not the user o)),how good a finish tolerance can you achieve? > any serious vibration ,due to build design of the machine, any backlash > problems etc. I haven't used the manual version of the mill, but I'm quite happy with my CNC version. For what it's worth my mill uses the old-style dovetail ways on the Z axis. The newer mills use much beefier box ways. For small cutters I haven't found vibration to be a problem. If you drive the cutters too hard, flexure in the machine, tool, and holder can cause deviation of the cutter that'll throw your dimensions off. The fix I've used for this is to push a little hard while roughing and take light, slow cuts for the finishing pass. Doing this I can hold pretty good tolerances (+/- 0.001" isn't a problem.) The finish is largely good, but it depends on a lot of things: I use flood coolant now. On most plastics this'll make or break the surface finish. Aluminum wants some sort of cooling, but I've had good luck with flood and spray-bottle coolant. A slow feed rate on the finish pass can also help surface finish. I haven't really had a problem with end milling. Side milling can look a little ripply, but the surfaces still clean up pretty quickly, all things considered. Backlash on my mill was about 0.002" in each of the three axes when I got it. I haven't seen it degrade appreciably since I got it about four years ago. You can take that into account in most CNC software, so I haven't through much of it. This isn't a complete answer, but for most parts it works fine. If a 0.002" backlash looks to be a problem, there are a couple of DRO solutions you can use, especially if the parts are small. One I've had good luck with on my lathe is to use long travel dial indicators (2" is the biggest I've found in my price range.) Not sure how you'd mount them on the mill, but it should be doable. I was told not to trust dial indicators when used this way, so I went back and checked my setup with calipers, taking spot checks all along the range of travel. It came out to be good to within my ability to measure it. Not bad. I have found there are limits to the size of cutter you can use and the depth you can use them at. But that's true of any machine, regardless of size. It just depends on where things start to get dicey. On the Taig I can use a 0.250" cutter (sorry, heathen units), but I have to take a pretty shallow cut. I've done fly cutting, but not too much of it. With smaller cutters I can push pretty good depth and not get too much chatter. Tom ------- Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:14:03 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Sticking Table! On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, smocksam wrote: > I've had a taig CNC micromill for nearly a year now. > Over the past few months it's started to develop a problem that annoys > me to death and I can't seem to fix it. > There is one small spot in the X axis (about 5 inches in from the left > edge of the table) that the table will hang up. It wil be moving freely > and then sometimes when it moves across that area will snag and lock up. > I've taken the stepper off and when it does it you can't even turn the > table by hand. > some people have suggested that I've not got the gibbs adjusted > properly, but it seems if that was the case it would do it all the time > an all across the X axis, not just at one end of the table. Although > making ever so slight adjustments to the gibbs will free the table up > and let it slide again for several days until it decides to do it again. > Does anyone have any suggestions for what the problem may be? Or perhaps > I am adjusting the table incorrectly. Can someone point me to > instructions on the "proper" way to adjust the gibbs? I'm guessing it's either the gibs or the leadscrew, as others have suggested. Here's how I'd go about it: With the whole system put together, remove the two #10-32 bolts that hold the X-axis leadscrew bearing plate to the mill table. Jog the axis to basically unscrew the leadscrew from the table. If it still jams at the same place, it's a leadscrew/nut problem rather than a gib problem. If it comes out freely, continue to suspect the gibs/ways. With the leadscrew removed, go ahead and power off your controller. Now try to slide the table back and forth by hand. If the tight spot shows up here, it's a gibs/ways issue. If the table is tight all the way across but is unusually tight in this one spot, the gibs may have been out of whack for a while. If it only binds in this one spot, that suggests something funky with the ways rather than the gibs. As you said, an issue with the gibs usually shows up at more than one point across the range of travel. But if there's something up with the table itself, it'd show up in just that one place. Pull the table off. Examine every contact surface for wear. If the gibs are wearing only on one side or in the middle, that indicates a problem with the gibs. If you find scoring on the gibs or ways, that suggests something's wrong with the table. If you find scoring on the table, that suggests something's wrong with the gibs or ways. Clean everything very very thoroughly. A chunk of swarf in the wrong place could be doing this, so even if you don't find anything during initial examination, it doesn't rule out jamming. With everything clean, put the table back in and slide it back and forth by hand. See if you still feel the tight spot. See if it's tight everywhere. If either of these happens, adjust the gibs. Not sure what the mill looks like these days, but it used to be that the X axis gib screws were two screws in one. To adjust, remove the socket head cap screws at the front of the saddle. Underneath these are socket head set screws that actually adjust the X-axis gib. The cap screws are just to lock them in place. Since you're already seeing binding, back out the screws until the table travels freely. Guranteed things are too loose at this stage. Grab either end of the table and try to rock it back and forth. You should get a "tic-toc" noise. Adjusting the gibs is a balancing act between these two conditions. You want them tight enough so there's no rocking action at all, but you also want them loose enough that the table doesn't bind. You can go whole-hog and put dial indicators on the table to find out how much play there is in the table, but I basically adjust mine until there's just a little drag and the pressure on the screws is about even. Not very scientific, I know. Slide the table back and forth by hand again and see if there are any tight spots. Keep in mind that tight spots will show up over time. If the mill is used primarily in one part of its range of travel, you'll get a loose spot there as the parts wear in. Adjusting the gibs to take up this slack means it'll be tight everywhere else. Typically this shows up in the middle of the range of travel for a mill, and toward the headstock for a lathe. In another thread posted earlier this month, someone mentioned the practice of moving your vise around the mill table, always putting it in a different place. This does a pretty good job of evening out the wear on the sliding parts of the mill. I do this at work as well as at home. It's not a cure-all, though, and the wear will still happen. But it's not a bad practice. If your mill is only a year old, the wear really shouldn't be that bad. I've had mine for about four and a half years now, and I can still get good motion across the whole range of travel in X. I can feel where the wear is starting, but it's nothing the motors would even notice. Once you're satisfied with the adjustment on the gibs, take the table back out and lubricate all the sliding surfaces. This will change the dynamics of the system and make the table feel tighter. Really gibs should be adjusted with any lubrication in place, kinda like you should get sized for shoes with whatever socks you intend to wear with them. But I've had problems with this on the Taig because it tends to make things feel better than they are. I've gone through a session only to find my table is too tight. But keep this in mind. You may need to make small adjustments after lubrication. For lubes there are a number of choices. Way oil is always a good choice since it's designed for the purpose. I use a synthetic grease made by SuperLube. Normally grease on machine ways isn't such a good idea because it does such a good job of collecting swarf. But my mill ways are completely covered and I haven't found this to be a problem. I don't do this on my lathe bed, though, because it does collect swarf there. For that I use oil. If this doesn't fix the problem in your X axis, let us know. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:04:42 -0700 From: "Larry Richter" Subject: Re: Sticking Table! [NOTE: this approach may help other machines.] Everything about precision lives by making a physical embodiment of the theoretical concepts of flatness and squareness which nature so despises. The practical meaning of that is that there is probably something bent, scored, embedded, or behind one of the surfaces of the gibs or the lead screw or nut in a place related to the point where the sticking occurs. The other possibility is that there is some instance of direct physical blockage, interference, that is intermittent. Can't think what. The machine produces an extremely strong variety of small trash as a by-product. I'd be taking the table apart and looking for it behind the gibs, on the gibs, in the lead screw thread, just something unusually wrong somewhere. Small aberrations can produce terrific wedging friction, we stop trucks and trains with it. Does it stick more often or exclusively while traveling in one particular direction? ------- Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 23:34:37 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Sticking Table! On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Larry Richter wrote: > Hah! Tom had it completely covered. Not with your flair for language, though. That's one of the better descriptions I've seen of the dependency of precision tools on close contact and plane surfaces. It's a keeper. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:35:48 -0700 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: Re: Sticking Table! > Actually it sticks when moving the table to the left. > Does that give any clues? Yes, that generally means that the gib is shifting. Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:16:17 -0700 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: Re: Sticking Table! (PICS!) > Alright, so I pulled the table off. > I noticed that the brass gib was moved almost completely to the left > side of the table. It didn't seem like this was correct, but I'm no expert! > Upon further inspection I found that the screw on the front of the > mill was loose. > I'm thinking that the screw is supposed to hold the gib in place which > it's definitely not doing and allowing things to bind. That screw locks the table, that is all it does. The gib is adjusted by the two screws at either end. With the center screw tightenend you cannot adjust the gibs. You should lightly file/stone the burr out of the way, in all probability the table was locked at some point when you tried to adjust it. Look here for a diagram explaining the gib adjustment http://www.cartertools.com/millset.html down at the bottom of that page. Both screws at the end need to be tight once the gib is positioned correctly. Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:48:49 -0000 From: "dberndt2004" Subject: Warped Table? I was tramming my mill today and I noticed that the runout near the bearing block side of my Y axis has more runout then anywhere else on the table. After taking readings at various places across the table running the dial indicator across the bare table or a parallel bars resulted in the discovery that across the width of the table (traversing the Y axis) I have a runout of 4 thou in on the left 2/3rds of the table. And on the right 1/3rd of the table, nearest the bearing block it gradually gets worses all the way up to .007". Now since these numbers are just across the 3.5" wide table, that's pretty terrible imo. More then .001"/inch even at the good spots. So I took the table off and set a parallel across the top of the gib/ whatever the piece across from the gib should be called and measured the runout on the Y traverse and I came up with ~.001"/inch of travel again. So It seems that the my casting may not be quite right which accounts for the error in most of the table, but still part of my table appears to be warped. Any thoughts on how to correct this, what can be done, etc? Dave ------- Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:32:16 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:Warped Table Dave, there are a few possibilities. First, and easiest to fix is that the top of the table isn't flat. If you have a piece of flat stock to sacrifice, bolt it down to the table and take a cleanup cut on the full surface. Then scan the surface with your indicator again. If it is just an un