This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Here are many users' tips to modify the Taig metal lathe or milling machine, or their accessories. Naturally many of the ideas or modifications applicable to the Sherline mill and lathe can be adapted to use on Taig machines. Please read those Sherline files too. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2016 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 07:58:50 EDT From: blackexecx~xxaol.com Subject: Tony Jeffree, Re : Sherline Motor on Taig Mill Dear Tony, I am very interested in your recent email regarding the Sherline Variable Speed Motor you have attached to the Taig Mill headstock. I am looking to convert my Taig lathe to the Sherline Motor. I have ordered the motor, headstock pulley and angle bracket from Sherline but also have the Taig pulleys and belt. I assume you have attached the Sherline angle bracket (or a modified bracket / equivalent) to the headstock and used the Sherline belt and pulley on the motor but modified the Taig headstock pulley ? I would be interested to hear about your conversion. I am also looking to attach some form of DRO set - up on the X and Y axis but have not converted to a leadscrew arrangement yet (so probably cannot use the Sherline handwheel arrangement). I have seen at some time three types of sensors : remote sensors (as of the type in MEW - BW Electronics), handwheel sensors (Sherline) and Linear types - (as on the Mituyoto Digital vernier) but not sure which would be appropriate if I want to retain my rack and pinion set-up. - Any suggestions ? I would like to look at your leadscrew conversion but cannot view the html from your Web-page, I'm not-too technical in this department - perhaps you could suggest something here also ? Many thanks for your time John Heffernan (London) p.s. this user group is excellent - I've been using my lathe in total isolation for around 20 yrs + in which time built the locomotive 'Canterbury Lamb', many mini-projects, and currently working on an invention that I demonstrated at 'Tomorrow's World Live Exhibition' - Earl's Court - built entirely on the Taig. ------- Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:40:02 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Tony Jeffree, Re : Sherline Motor on Taig Mill >I am very interested in your recent email regarding the Sherline Variable >Speed Motor you have attached to the Taig Mill headstock. I used the existing bracket on the Taig Mill - the old motor had 4 bolt holes at the spindle end (i.e., flange mounting); I just drilled 4 more holes in the Taig mounting plate at the right PCD for the Sherline motor's mounting holes & fitted it that way. The mounting arrangement on the Taig mill is a 1" square aluminium bar attached by T bolts to the T slot in the bottom edge of the headstock; a square 1/4" thick plate bolts onto the end of the bar at one corner with 2 bolts, one running in a curved slot to allow the distance between motor shaft & spindle to be adjusted. Crude but effective. You can see how this works from the pics on the Taig site - http://www.taigtools.com/mmill.html. I used the Taig pulley set rather than switching to the Sherline ones; if I recall, the Sherline motor is 1/2" diam spindle; I may have needed an adaptor to match the bore of the pulley - it was a while ago! Note that to get the rotation direction right, you will need the motor to extend to the left of the headstock pulley. The setup on my lathe is different - used a servo motor rather than the Sherline one, and mounted it to the right of the headstock pulley, using the metal motor board supplied by Peatol, plus a piece of 2"X2"X1/4" ally angle to make a bracket (again, a flange mounted motor). I only used 2 out of the 4 mounting holes - perfectly adequate for the power involved. >I am also looking to attach some form of DRO set - up on the X and Y axis Not attempted to do that on my lathe, and I don't need DRO's on my CNC mill. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:39:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Tony Jeffree, Re : Sherline Motor on Taig Mill > I am also looking to attach some form of DRO set - up on the X and Y I set up a much less professional DRO on my lathe, but it works quite well for what I do. I still have my rack 'n pinion setup, so this should work for your lathe as well. There are pictures of my lathe on Nick's web site if you want to take a look at it. Enco was running a special on 2" travel dial indicators, so I bought four. (Fair warning, the under-$30US variety are quite accurate, but don't always have smooth action. It may take some breaking in on your part to make them smooth. Once done, though, they work quite well.) I cut some mounting hardware for them and mounted one each on the cross-slide, the vertical slide, and along the lathe bed. The fourth one is still in its box, waiting for when I finally get around to making mounting hardware for the tailstock. Once that's done, I'll have DRO on all four axes. The one catch with this, of course, is that you don't get all your readouts in one place. You have four dials to keep track of. But with a total cost of around $120US including shipping and materials, that was a trade I was willing to make. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:05:18 -0500 From: Joe Harmon Subject: Re: Re: Spindle adapter From: Phil Jaster > Jean, Try using http://www.grizzly.com > go to the page for accessories for lathes... i believe I saw adapters > for 3/4-10 threads.... if not try as well LeeValley at > http://www.leevalley.com/ they might have adapters as well.... phil >> Can anyone help me find or give advise on making an adapter so I can use >> some of my Taig acessories on a new wood turning lathe I recently >> purchased. My new lathe has a 3/4 X 10 TPI right hand spindle. My Taig of >> course is 3/4 X 16 TPI. What I need is a 3/4 X 10 female to 3/4 X 16 Male >> adapter. Right hand treads on both ends Phil: To make the 3/4-10 female to 3/4-16 male adapter, I would start with the female end first, with stock cut to over all length, leaving just enough to face each end. Here is a list of steps, you may wish to try. 1. Using a lathe, insert stock into headstock and indicate-in the O.D. 2. Face, center drill, light pass to clean up O.D., and chamfer outside diameter 3. Drill large enough hole for clearance, for a boring bar 4. Re-indicate the O.D., because the stock could shift from drilling, and you want the part to run true 5. Bore the I. D. (internal dia.) to the proper size for threading, chamfer the I.D. well, for easy start for tapping, etc. 6. Chase or Tap I.D. threads to 3/4-10 7. Swap ends to make outside threads 8. Indicate O.D. 9. Face end, check for run out by indicating O.D. again 10. Turn O.D. to proper size for chasing or using a Die to make your 3/4-16 threads, chamfer O.D. end for easy start. I tried to keep it short and simple. Simply put, if you indicate each end properly, thus avoiding run-out, then you should have a spindle adapter that will meet your needs. If you have any questions, e-mail me. Joe ------- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:18:08 -0000 From: "Richard " Subject: Tool sharing I know there are some Taig lathe owners who also use the HF 7x. With the addition of an easily made adaptor block which mimics the cross slide on the Taig saddle one can use all the tools made for the Taig on the 7x. I made one which fits in place of the "in the way when you don't need it", compound on the 7x and use one set of tools for both lathes. The addition of an MT3 blank arbor machined and threaded 3/4- 16, and bored to the taper for the Taig collets is another handy thing. It allows the use of the 4 jaw too. Another tool I use most of the time is the Freeby tool holder for turning and facing with a "diamond" (shape only)toolbit. I was able to face a 5inch diameter job with ease. I was also able to use the milling attachment and Tony's famous dividing head to make some gears for my model trains, with just a little more elbow room available. It's more fun using the tools than making them. Rich ------- Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:47:23 -0000 From: "Phil Jaster" Subject: Re: horrible chatter... Joe I understood the beatings meant bearings!!!! If you think 5 1/4 inch drives have neat stuff wait till you tear apart an older Hard Drive: I love the full size HD's from 286-386 era pc's... the disks are great for a number of items: I use them on my wood lathe to grind tip shapes for my wood gouges; use contact adhesive and Silicone Carbide paper and have one with leather for buffing as well... the small 3.5 inch drives 386->present which can be picked up for nothing from computer repair shops.... can be used for index disks on the TAIG and the bearings from all HD's are super for small projects... yeah the list of items goes on!!!! phil ------- Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:02:56 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: prop hub [DREMEL MOUNT FOR CROSS SLIDE] On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 beepeenacanx~xxaol.com wrote: > I have a dremel flex shaft tool. HOW do i mount it to the crosslide > correctly? and WHY DID I NOT THINK OF THAT!!!?? Thanks! Brad Here's how I made mine: I grabbed a block of 1"x2" aluminum tall enough so it could sit on the cross slide and have the top at least 1" above the spindle axis. Chucked this up in the 4-jaw and used that to face it off on all sides. Now I know it's nice 'n square. I drilled it in two places so I could run bolts down through it to attach it to the cross slide. (I wound up counterboring these more than I would've liked because I didn't have bolts long enough. In retrospect I wish I'd have waited to get longer bolts so I wouldn't have wound up with the chip-collection problem I have now.) I mounted it on the cross-slide and chucked a center drill up in the headstock. Once I'd center drilled the block, I put in a fairly large drill bit and drilled through it. Back into the 4-jaw. I indicated the piece in until the hole I'd drilled was on-axis with the lathe spindle. It was then a matter of boring the hole out until I could just slip the handpiece for the flex shaft tool into the hole. Then I drilled and tapped a set screw hole on top of the block so that once the handpiece was inserted, I could lock it into place. Voila. At that point I could bolt the block to the cross slide, insert the flex shaft handle, tighten the set screw to hold it in place, and drill to my heart's content. It's well worth checking to be sure the drill is on the same level as the lathe axis. If you bore the hole to a close enough fit, this shouldn't be a problem. If it's at all loose, this may put the axis of the flex shaft tool below the axis of the lathe. Not much fun. You can fix it by shimming it up, but it's not as easy to use that way. I think Nick's got plans for one of these on his site. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 20:44:10 -0800 From: Dave Martindale Subject: motor ratings >Sounds good to me. I have a Sherline motor on my Taig mill, and it's rated >at 1/3 HP, though Sherline claims that rating is deceptive on the >conservative side. They use the same motor on their lathe. When comparing motors, you have to keep in mind that there are different ways of rating motors. The 1/3 HP induction motor that someone was thinking about using will likely put out 1/3 HP continuously for hours. If you overload it, it may go up to about 2/3 HP output before stalling, but it will overheat if you do this for long. In comparison, the Sherline motor is actually rated at something like 1/16 HP for continuous use, and something like 1/10 HP with a particular duty cycle. (The motor data is on the Sherline web site, under "dimensions" or something like that. On the other hand, its peak power is something over 1/2 HP at mid-range speed. You just can't operate at this power for long without overheating it - after all, it has no vent holes and no cooling fan. So the good thing about the Sherline motor is that it operates over a wide range of speed without changing pulleys, and it has large reserves of power to meet momentary demands. But its continuous power rating is quite low. If you're going to be doing heavy turning for long periods, an induction motor will keep running long after the Sherline has tripped its thermal overload. Of course, if you really want to remove a lot of metal, you probably want to be using a larger lathe. Dave ------- From: Tom Benedict Date: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:39am Subject: Re: Knobs for the tailstock On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 ajkdfwx~xxa... wrote: > I'm a very new guy, both to this group and to lathes in general. > Bought a new Taig and a lot of accessories through a nice fellow on > eBay and I'm having a good time trying to learn. I would like to put a > couple of aluminum or brass knobs on the tailstock to replace the set > screws but cant find a source .. does anyone have any ideas? I've > thought of trying to make them but right at the moment my skill level > is about a -2 (but rising slowly). How would you hold the (longer) > set screws in the knob? What about knurling .. how is that done and > what kind of knurl tool would I look for and where? Any help would be > greatly appreciated. Coupla options come to mind. One is to get some knobs from (pick your favorite supplier) that take threaded shafts. Small Parts, Inc. sells some called "three armed knobs" that would be ideal. Another is to use the ratchet handles like Ken Jenkins uses. (He's got some excellent pictures up on the Taig e-group area if you want to see those.) Another is to make your own. I wound up taking this route, and made some pretty simple ones that work well. I started with 3/8" bar and cut a brass screw to fit in the top hole and the side hole. You need to put about an inch of #10-32 thread on the end of each one so it'll have plenty of gripping power (measure the screws that are already there, and cut accordingly.) Concentricity isn't a huge deal with this, so I used a #10-32 die held in a normal die handle, and used the tailstock to push it onto the brass bar squarely. If you use 3/8" diameter bar, the one fitting in the side hole, the one that clamps it to the lathe bed, needs a shoulder put on it so it'll fit in the counterbored hole. The handle for the top won't need a shoulder since it sits on top of a washer. I cut the shoulder on mine slightly longer than the depth of the counterbore. To make the handle end, I left about a half inch of brass sticking out on each of the screws. I cross-drilled a 3/16" hole in each one. Then I took a chunk of stainless (though any material would work, including brass) and cut some 1.5" long pieces just over 3/16" in diameter. After rounding both ends, I pressed one into each of the cross-drilled holes. What I wound up with was a pair of small brass screws with steel handles. They're unobtrusive, the handle is about as long as the allen wrench I'd been using on the original cap head screws, so I could get plenty of torque. All in all it was a nice one-evening job. Tom ------- > 2) What's a faster alternate to the L-keys. Bunch of options: I locktited a length of 10-32 all-thread in the tailstock clamp and ram clamp threaded holes, and made some knurled brass knobs to snug down in place of the cap screws. Others prefer the treaded stock to be part of the knob. Some have purchased commercial knobs with a 10-32 threaded portion that work. If you go the locktite route, use the weak stuff that can be disassembled with normal handtools. You really don't want to have to heat the tailstock to the point that a bearing retaining grade of locktite chars! I used a commercial knob with a 10-32 threaded stud for the carriage. It costs about a dollar at Home Depot or Lowes, and is small enough to clear the cross slide while being easier on the fingers than the provided wingnut. I haven't done anything about the tailstock alignment locking cap screw, as I rarely turn tapers using the tailstock offset method. One less knob in the way or to loosen by accident while focusing on something else. See Nick's site for pictures of some of these options. ------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 From: SorJ Subject: Re: Lathe -Longer bed possibilities >How hard would it be to make a longer (15") bed for this Taig lathe? >I really do not want to get a Sherline, but I like the headstock >being able to rotate and the longer bed option. I've already got a 10" >South Bend, just need a smaller lathe for teenie-tiny work. Hi Jason This was a question I asked myself years ago when looking for a very small lathe that would make spindles a few inches longer than the Taig. Since I have a larger Atlas, I never really needed the stretched Taig/equivalent but have still given it some thought. The day will come when some of us move into apartments and reduce the heavy iron. At that point a longer Taig (as opposed to a very expen$ive Sherline and its acce$$ories) would really be appreciated. I figure the easiest extension to the precision Taig is an identical matched bed bolted to the right, in line with the existing one. The new rack will have to be carefully ground to make a perfect tooth at the point it butts to the existing rack. (It would be even simpler if Taig could provide a single long rack would replace the existing one and go to the far end of the second bed. Naturally the lathe mounting surface will have to be dead straight (and carefully shimmed/aligned) for the two beds. Many wood lathes have been extended in a similar manner by building a tailstock holder to the right of the existing bed. The simple design of the Taig bed is even better for performing an add-on function, and one that would handle the moving carriage. As for Sherline's rotating headstock feature, personally I prefer to leave my Sherline mill's head fixed and angle what I am working on. One less alignment problem. In the case of the Taig lathe, the offset tailstock is one way of handling slight tapers. Even if you extend the Taig, I reckon most work is still going to be done close to the headstock on the small parts where this precision lathe shines. Good luck Steve in Thunder Bay, Ontario ------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:03:36 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Lathe -Longer bed possibilities > I figure the easiest extension to the precision Taig > is an identical matched bed bolted to the right, in line You can buy another bed from Taig and I don't think the rack they use is custom, it's gotta be off-the-shelf, which means you can probably order a replacement (BERG) long enough to span the two beds. The problem I have with this scenario is the alignment would have to be dead nuts on. Having said that, what are you going to turn "the whole length" of that would be that long? The big short coming of the Taig for me is not the overall length but the ability to pass larger stock through the spindle headstock. I think I read somewhere you can bore out the spindle to 3/8" without affecting anything but that's it. Now let's say you have a .5" dia. bar and you want to face one end. With the Taig you can only set it up between centers or try a somewhat less reliable steady-rest arrangement. I'm not complaining --- it's a limitation you accept, but the ability to turn "long" things their full length would only come up for me in wood --- then the scenario of the end-to-end beds above is more reasonable in that the requirements for precision are reduced (no one measures chair leg spindles in thousandths!). In addition, the transition point between the two beds would be an issue, you might need to have both beds set up in a grinder and have the ends very precisely surfaced so they butt together seamlessly (well ---- as seamless as you can get with this arrangement. Just some thoughts. Ken ------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:11:50 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Re: Lathe -Longer bed possibilities At 12:03 28/11/00 -0500, you wrote: >I don't think the rack they use is >custom, it's gotta be off-the-shelf, It is custom - they make the racks themselves. I've seen them in production. Having said that, they seem to use a standard pitch (20TPI I believe). Regards, Tony ------ Thanks for the comments, Ken. >You can buy another bed from Taig and I don't think the rack they use is >custom, it's gotta be off-the-shelf, which means you can probably order a >replacement (BERG) long enough to span the two beds. A longer rack would make this conversion much simpler as the alternative butted shorter racks would present more work to get the rack transition point exact and smooth. >The problem I have with >this scenario is the alignment would have to be dead nuts on. The longer rack spanning both beds should make the alignment situation a bit easier, and eliminate any possibility of roughness or irregularity of feed as the carriage is wound past a rack joint. >In addition, the transition point between the two beds would be an issue, >you might need to have both beds set up in a grinder and have the ends very >precisely surfaced so they butt together seamlessly (well ---- as seamless >as you can get with this arrangement. I am not sure that the beds have to have a perfect butt joint, but rather a reasonably perfect alignment. It would be important that the carriage not trip on an irregularity. Even a small gap should be irrelevant to the carriage going over the joint smoothly. >Having said that, what are you going to turn >"the whole length" of that would be that long? Personally I don't need to turn something metal as long as the double bed but do regularly turn narrow wood or composite spindles that are in the order of max 5/8" diameter tapering to 3/8" and about 16 inches long, plus another 3/4" waste stock at both ends in chuck/centre. This exceeds the capacity of the single bed Taig. If the form needed is unique, a wood lathe like a Shopsmith is the choice, using freehand chisels/gouges. If there are more mechanical shapes that need exact repetition, or are of harder material than common woods (like ebony which can do a real number on the thin cutting edge of regular wood-turning tools), then an Atlas metal lathe gets the nod with cutter in the toolpost. >With the Taig you can only set it up between centers or try >a somewhat less reliable steady-rest arrangement. I'm not complaining --- >it's a limitation you accept, but the ability to turn "long" things their >full length would only come up for me in wood --- then the scenario of the >end-to-end beds above is more reasonable in that the requirements for >precision are reduced (no one measures chair leg spindles in thousandths!). >Just some thoughts. Ken You're absolutely right. As mentioned in my earlier post, if the day comes when space or portability becomes decisive, and the bigger tools are sold off, the Taig in an extended length would become a suitable alternative for many jobs (mainly wood) that exceed the basic Taig's length capacity. Steve in Thunder Bay, Ontario ------- Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:34:46 -0600 From: "Paul Currie" Subject: Re: Re: Diamond Toolholder Looking at the one photo of your lead screw, it appears as if it is powered, a stepping motor or just a plain motor? Also is there some kind of right angled gearbox? Also curious as to the bracket for the lead screw drive, is it a fabricated bracket or an aluminum extrusion and if so from where? You have lots of great ideas there. THX Paul ------- Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:17:26 -0000 From: "Richard " Subject: Re: Diamond Toolholder 14 Oct 2000 From: "Richard " >>Paul, My age,77, is showing. In message 1347 I meant to say "The lead screw is BEARING supported at one end only". I should add that the wormwheel is free to rotate (bronze sleeve) on the leadscrew shaft and is keyed to the handwheel by a simple removable pin.The handwheel is secured to the shaft by a set screw. This provides power feed when the pin is inserted and manual feed, by turning the handwheel, with the pin removed. I hope this clears things up. Richard << The lead screw is powered through a worm gear-worm wheel mechanism using a Sears power screwdriver as the driver. I use a 6 volt power supply instead of a battery. The bracket you are seeing was fabricated using two pieces of aluminum angle bolted together. I believe Tony Jeffries used a similar bracket in his great dividing head article. I made the screw from a piece of 1/2-13 threaded rod and the worm wheel using a 1/2- 13 tap as a hob. I found the lead screw needs to be supported at one end only, the other end is supported by the brass "nut" fastened to the apron. I'm not too proud of this setup as I lost the rack and pinion fast adjust feature. The worm wheel is keyed to the hand wheel via a removable pin though and allows pretty fast adjusting when you don't want power feed. Richard ------- Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:37:07 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: indicator mounts? On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 zeox~xxsofcom.com wrote: > I saw a photo(s) a while back with dial indicators mounted on the > carriage and crosslide. Can someone tell me where I can find that > photo(s) again? Thanks Zeo Bugatti Sure thing. Pretty sure they're the ones off my lathe. If you go to Nick's site, and go to "Taig Owner Modifications and Projects", those pictures are listed there. Here's the URL: http://www.pioneer.net/~felice/picture.html You'll need to scroll down from where that takes you. The overall shot of my lathe is at: http://www.proaxis.com/%7Etaig/tbtaig4.jpg The mounts for the cross-slide and milling slide were the toughies. Both of those required drilling into the apron and the block for the milling slide. The mount itself is pretty simple. It's an aluminum block with holes drilled in it. One note about the cross-slide indicator mount: If I had it all to do over, I'd do it a little differently. If you looking the picture, you can see the height of the mount is almost exactly the height of the cross-slide. And it's got a set screw sticking out of the top. This means that the compound slide has a tendency to run into it. This is A Major Pain. If I had it all to do over again (and essentially I do: it's a project I'm planning on doing), I'd make it about 1/16-1/8" shorter, and put the set-screw on the right side toward the tailstock. That keeps it well under the level of the cross slide, and makes it a little more usable. The mount for the indicator that's attached to the headstock is pretty straightforward. It's two blocks of aluminum drilled and reamed for 3/8" in one place, and whatever the diameter is for the carriage stop (pretty sure it's 1/8") with setscrews sticking out both ends. You attach the indicator to the carriage stop, make sure everything's nice 'n parallel, lock the setscrews, and attach it to your lathe. Done. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:38:04 -0000 From: PI71x~xxwebtv.net Subject: Another lead screw solution I've had my Taig lathe for aroung 10 years and I too became very interested in having power feed for the carriage after owning the lathe for a short time. I solved the problem by obtaining a copy of David Gingery's book, BUILDING YOUR OWN METAL WORKING SHOP FROM SCRAP, book #2-THE METAL LATHE. It takes you back to the basics and is very well illutrated. All the parts you need to make the lead screw set-up can be found at your local hard-ware store and in your junk box. You have to use your imagination and figure out how to adapt his set-up to your lathe, but that's part of the fun. I have mine set-up with a variable speed gearhead DC motor with reverse. The motor drives the screw via reduction sprockets and small roller chain. Very high torque. Let me clarify the part about obtaining everything you need from the hardware store and junk box. For a simple hand powered screw, this would be possible, but for a powered screw like mine you would have to check out the surplus catalogs for motors, switches, sprockets and chains. My set-up works great. Jim Hearn ------- Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:44:36 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Question from a newbie On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Jeffrey C. Dege wrote: > Hi all. I'm a new Taig owner, trying to figure things out. Congrats on your new Taig! > There are a great many basic questions I've yet to resolve. > The one for today: > How do y'all fasten a dial-indicator to the cross-slide? Hey! One of my favorites! If you mean, "In a really permanent fashion," take a look at the pictures of my lathe on Nick's site. I basically got a block of aluminum, drilled and counterbored two #10-32 clearance holes in it, bored a 3/8" hole crosswise through it, and mounted it on the apron. I made a little foot for it to press up against, and made a small t-nut for it to fit into the t-slot on the side of the cross-slide. Except for drilling and tapping the #10-32 holes on the apron, you can do just about all these operations with a four-jaw and a drilling tailstock. You'll need a drill press or some non-lathe way to drill the holes in your lathe's apron. One note on making a mounting block, if you make one along the same lines as mine: I made mine too tall. My compound slide hits it if you angle it over that way. I really really need to re-cut it. Here's what I'd do, given the choice: Make it less than an inch tall, for starters. That brings the bulk of the block under the level of the cross-slide. Put the set screw on the SIDE so it doesn't protrude out of the top of the block. These two changes would make this a completely unobtrusive modification. If you're wondering how to stick one onto the cross-slide for centering work in a four-jaw, that's a little easier. I stuck a 3/8" drill on the headstock, and mounted a toolpost on the cross-slide. I used that to drill through one side of the toolpost, making a toolpost that could take a 3/8" diameter tool (or dial indicator). (One caveat: I actually drilled undersized and then reamed to 3/8". I highly recommend you do this. Makes for less frustration in the long-run.) Hope this helps. It's late, so I don't know if what I wrote makes much sense. If not, bonk me on the head and I can re-write it with a clearer head Monday. Tom ------- Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 05:17:18 -0000 From: "simon sayez" Subject: Re: Question from a newbie Hi Jeffrey, Welcome aboard! There are many ways of holding an indicator - depending on what you are trying to measure. There are several pictures on Nick Carter's web site of mounts & holders at: http://www.pioneer.net/~felice/picture.html I make extensive use of a magnetic base holder because it is so easy to move around. When I am measuring depth of a milling or drilling operation the mag mount is set on the tail end of the bed (I usually leave the tail stock off unless I am actively using it). When I'm centering something in the four jaw chuck I bolt a flat square of steel plate to the cross slide and place the mag mount on that. Then I can move the dial indicator back & forth and in and out by moving the cross slide instead of moving the mount itself. Other times I bolt the steel plate to the top or side of the head stock (Gosh I love all the T slots on the Taig!). Another modification I made to the lathe was drilling out the front T slot on the head stock to accept a 1/4" rod. I have a foot long rod with an inch of threads on one end that I use for a cross slide stop & another place to mount a dial indicator. I can only use this rod mount on longer pieces though, so I usually have the mag mount on the end of the lathe bed. Nick has some great information and photos on his site, and there are lots of interesting photos in the Taig egroup file area. Have fun! Simon ------- Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:11:45 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: replacement handles >Where can I get a set of small spinning replacement handles for the >carriage and crosslide? VERY easy to convert the handles to spinning. Take the old handles out, drill them axially, tap a suitable thread in the hole, fit a suitable length dome headed screw/locknut through the handle so that enough thread protrudes beyond the nut to allow it to screw into the tapped hole, adjust the nut so the handle spins & Locktite it in place, then screw the handle assembly in place. 15 minutes work tops. If I recall correctly, you can run a 4BA tap straight into the holes without re-drilling. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:22:43 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: replacement handles At 15:49 25/01/01 -0600, you wrote: >I like it! Two questions though: How do I remove the handles? Carefully, with a pair of pliers. They are a push fit. Use something to protect the handles from marking if possible. >What is a 4BA thread? I have never heard of that. BA is a UK thread standard. Happened to be convenient for the purpose. Closest UNF is 6-40, but I can't vouch for whether 6-40 will tap directly into the holes (the 6040 thread OD is slightly smaller than 4BA). Regards, Tony ------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:28:28 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Info on Taig Lathe carriage gears From: > Can anybody tell me the Diametral Pitch, and Pressure Angle on the > Taig lathe's carriage rack & pinion? When last I checked, it was 20 tpi, and the form was that of a vee thread. Why? Because they make the racks in a fixture on the lathe, arranging the racks radially around a mandrel and cutting a 60 deg. vee thread. ------- Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 11:16:31 -0700 From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." Subject: Re: newbie question preitelbachx~xxyahoo.com wrote: > After years of wanting one...I am on the verge of buying a lathe. I > like the price of the Taig and the answer to the question below will > seal the deal for me. I have limited knowledge of machining methods.. > The current task is to make axle shafts 5.00" long from 0.375" dia. > aluminum bar. I need to reduce the diameter to 0.250" for 1.50" at > one end. "MY" idea would be to insert the bar throught the spindle and > machine the end. However the specs for the lathe indicate the spindle > hole is 0.343" dia. which precludes my method. > The question is how else would I accomplish this task? Thanks, Pat I had talked to Forrest at Taig a few years ago when I got mine from him about opening up the spindle hole for just what you are talking about. I needed to get a 3/8" piece through the spindle. You can safely open it up. I used a slow speed and lots of lube and ran a drill, then a 3/8" reamer, and finally a 25/64" reamer through the spindle. Works great. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO ------- Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:27:37 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: wandering drill On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 acharlestox~xxhotmail.com wrote: > I have been drilling parts held in the lathe's 4 jaw chuck with a 1/4" > drill held in a jacobs chuck screwed on the tailstock sliding ram. I > used a centre bit to dimple the work so that the drill would start > precisely. > With the ram clamp just loose enough to allow the lever arm to move > the ram there is a noticeable amount of side play in the > ram/chuck/drill. No matter how I adjust the clamp the drill wanders in > the workpiece. Is this an inherent limitation of the sliding ram design? > Have I got an improperly bored tailstock? > Or am I approaching the job incorrectly? I can't answer your questions, but I'll post what I've observed with my own lathe, trying to do the same tasks: The setup: Taig lathe, unmodified lever tailstock, drill chuck arbor. 1/4" precision Jacobs chuck, 3/8" normal Jacobs chuck. Some drill rod (actually a Hansen drill shank). A test dial indicator. The tests: I started by chucking my TDI up in the headstock and bringing it to bear against the tapered surface of the tailstock. Turns out the tailstock was about 10 thou off to one side (12 seems like the right number, but this was months ago.) Through judicious sliding of the tailstock I was able to bring it to within a fraction of a thou. This involved lots of cursing and wishing, on my part, that I'd built that micrometer adjusting screw Jose describes on Nick's web site. Next I set up the drill arbor in the headstock and measured the run-out of the flats with the TDI. Turns out the flat facing the tailstock wasn't running true. I trued it up with one or two really really light cuts (emphasis on the "really light"). Removed it and re-installed it to verify it was still running true. It was. Next I mounted each of my Jacobs chucks on the drill arbor, stuck in some drill rod (the aforementioned Hansen drill shank), and tested the run-out. The precision chuck had very little, only a few thou if that. The 3/8" chuck had a bunch, more like 5-6 thou. The jaws on those chucks should be hardened. (I believe that for the precision chuck. I don't believe that for the normal chuck.) In any case, I didn't attack the jaws with a grinder. I took another approach (one I'm hoping won't get everyone yelling, "No no no! Tell me you didn't!") I took out the drill arbor and collet-mounted a 1/4" diameter drill shank. Checked the run-out. As close to zip as makes no odds. I wasn't willing to potentially destroy my precision 1/4" Jacobs chuck, so I only did this with the 3/8" Jacobs chuck (the one I most consider expendable). I reversed it onto the 1/4" shaft and closed the jaws onto it by hand, then by turning the chuck key in each of the three holes. By the end it was tight, and (hopefully) as concentric as I could get it. I measured the run-out on the flat at the back of the chuck. Considerable (can't remember the number.) So I took a series of light light light facing cuts until it ran true. Once again I mounted up the drill arbor and put the 3/8" chuck on the end. Run-out was down by a bunch. I moved the chuck back to the tailstock and mounted the TDI in the headstock. Chucked up that drill shank in the tailstock, and measured run-out. It was down to one or two thou. Doing this has helped my tailstock drilling immensely. So going back to your questions: > Is this an inherent limitation of the sliding ram design? Dunno. (I'd like to hear the answer to this one...) But before I'd condemn the sliding ram design, I'd take a look at every other component in the system. If the answer is yes, I think a neat project for the Taig would be a more conventional threaded ram tailstock. (Plus, it'd be a nice project to get into casting!) > Have I got an improperly bored tailstock? Dunno. But same caveat applies. How would you test this? What comes to mind is to mount a TDI in the headstock, put the ram at one extreme, test the run-out, then move it to the opposite extreme and test the run-out. If the numbers change, can you assume your tailstock isn't coaxial with the headstock? This raises another question: Has anyone tested repeated clamping/unclamping of the tailstock to see if it comes back exactly on-axis each time? I've been meaning to do this for a long time, but I keep getting side-tracked with other projects. ;) > Or am I approaching the job incorrectly? Sounds to me like you're approaching it right. But this leads to another question I've got regarding center-drills: I've got a set of five. The smallest has a needle-sharp point, and doesn't tend to wander at all. The largest has a VERY blunt point (it's still ground to cut at the center, but it's not a needle point.) That one does wander some when I use it. What I've been doing is starting holes with the smallest or next to smallest. If I need a bigger center drill hole, I'll then work up through them. This seems to reduce the chances of getting an off-axis start on a hole. So let me repeat the question that's already been asked: Am I approaching center-drilling incorrectly? Thanks, Tom ------- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:39:50 -0000 From: ballendox~xxyahoo.com Subject: tailstock mod was re:Re: wandering drill In taigtools, ballendox~xxy... wrote: > So, maybe locking > the lever feed and loosening the tailstock on the ways (slightly) > will give better results. You can start the cut this way (even using > your "muscle" to "guide" (by deflecting the tailstock with hand > pressure) the center drill to the correct center as you 'slide' the > tailstock on the ways to make the cone. Thought of a neat (maybe) project for the tailstock. Two aluminum pieces shaped to clamp on the bed. One has a threaded hole; the other has a thru hole. A piece of threaded rod has a handle attached. To use, you clamp the threaded piece near the lathe bed end, and the through hole piece next to the tailstock. Now you thread the rod through the first piece, through the second piece, until it bears on the tailstock. Loosen the tailstock slightly (as in my esrlier post, repeated above) and use the screw to move it in a controlled manner! The 2nd piece is a "guide" so the screw bears correctly at the base of the tailstock. I'd keep the screw low (close to the bed), but it could work up higher as well. Screw feed tailstock for a few minutes with a bandsaw and drillpress! Hope this helps. Ballendo ------- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:58:58 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: tailstock mod was re:Re: wandering drill Neat! The obvious material to make this from is one of the standard Taig raising blocks - drill the hole first, tapped one end, then cut a couple of slices off the block (or maybe just cut it in half). No effort required to machine the dovetails/clamping gibs, other than maybe fitting a new 10-32 clamping screw or two. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:31:31 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Opening the spindle bore >> I just opened my spindle bore yesterday to 25/64ths. Make sure your >> tailstock is absolutely true to start. Then I used a letter drill >> (can't remember which), a 3/8th ream and lastly a 25/64th ream. I >> used tons of turbine oil in the process and took it very, very, >> slow. It was a little hairy, scary and noisy at times but it worked >> fine and now I can pass 3/8" which is a real plus. Ken > Ken, Just to be sure, when you open up the bore to 3/8"+, are > the collets still useable? I use 3/8" rod on some projects > and would like to put it thru the spindle. I would also like > to use the collets!!! Dan Fuller Carrollton, TX The collets seat themselves in the tapered part of the headstock opening. Opening the spindle bore won't affect this taper (unless you ram the drill into it off center or something!). You're actually working "past" this tapered area with your drilling and reaming the collets don't come in contact with the spindle bore. ken ------- Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 15:23:36 EDT From: beepeenacanx~xxaol.com Subject: I love this thing! Just finished turning the mill attachment into a mini drill press to hold my Dremel handpiece. I will use it to drill a hole in the side of the round prop hub on my 200 cc engine - to insert the magnet for the Hall sensor for the electronic ignition! Could not have done it w/o the TAIG. All I need now is the camera so you can see it! Thanks for all the info, guys!! brad ------- Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 20:30:48 -0000 From: marlinmanssvx~xxhotmail.com Subject: Re: I love this thing! Brad, I've found the Milling attachment of more use as a tool platform than as a work holder. I have used rather large boring bars by mounting a chuck adapter to the mill attachment, screwing on a 3-jaw, and clamping the boring bar with same. I have also done some radial drilling using the flex-shaft dremel mounted in a holder made from 3/4" square aluminum stock. It worked very well, indeed. Are you using the flex shaft vertically? Neat! I share your enthusiasm for the milling attachment: It's one of the best accessories you can get for the Taig. Regards, Andy M. ------- Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 07:51:05 -0000 From: simonsyzx~xxemail.com Subject: Re: a couple of questions... Hi Jeff, I take the carriage off very frequently - especially when I see a bit of swarf disappear under it! I rarely have the tailstock on the bed, so it is a piece of cake to slide the carriage off to get all dem nasty bits o' metal off the ways. I clean and re-oil the carriage dovetail and the ways every time after working on wood, after a week or two of inactivity, or when I cut a lot of aluminum. The cross-slide usually stays cleaner, but I take it apart whenever I see swarf sticking to the screw or if the oil starts to look really black & nasty (or if I see a bit o' swarf disappear under it). Another thing I find helpful is leaving the e-clip off the carriage handwheel. Pulling the handwheel gear out until it disengages the rack makes it very easy to move the carriage a long distance (or completely off). It also makes it easier to realign the handle for the "best" position when doing fine work. When the e-clip kept the handwheel gear engaged all the time I found that the handle was usually in the most awkward position when I want to move the carriage just a teeny bit or if I need to apply extra force. Now I just pop the handwheel out & realign the handle to where it feels best. It is now so natural to pop the handwheel in and out of engagement that I can't imagine not having this added "feature". Simon ------- Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 03:59:53 -0000 From: hja13x~xxuswest.net Subject: Re: taig, and "big lathe" question - threading & leadscrew Hi Des, if you decide to add a lead screw use Left hand threaded rod and it will "feel" right. You will develop a feel for the stock carriage feed after a short time also. Having both would be ideal, as you have probably seen other Taig owners have done. -Jim- Arvada Colorado ------- Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:31:17 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Lathe leadscrew > I've seen several articles around the place on installing a leadscrew > to the taig... and I know most large lathes already have them. > Do the larger lathes have handwheels on their leadscrews? Yes, but not mounted on the end like most of the Taig mods. The lead screw on larger lathes is generally driven for threading with a method (half-nut, etc.) for engaging and disengaging drive. The crank is mounted at right angles to the carriage travel. To move the carriage by hand the drive is left in disengaged mode and the crank turned by hand. Counterclockwise moves carriage toward chuck. When threading, the drive is engaged and the crank turns itself following the carriage motion > I've looked at pictures and text descriptions of the Unimats, (who use a > leadscrew for normal carriage traverse) and the thread appears to be basic > RH thread.... this means that a wheel located at the tail end of the bed, > turned clockwise will pull the carriage away from the head. On big lathes > with leadscrew handles (on the assumption such beasties exist), is the > same true? Basically I want to modify my Taig with all these great > features, but I do not want to have "mirrored" controls.. in other words, > I want to develop a sense of driving the Taig, and be able to step > straight to a larger lathe, without having to "Unlearn" anything. I have done a half-nut engage/disengage) for my Taig lathe and used LH threaded stainless steel 1/4-20 rod for the screw for the very reasons you mention (i.e. when I crank the crank clockwise since it's on the end of the leadscrew I want it to move toward the chuck). See the files section under Ken Jenkins for pictures. Ken ------- From: tadici283x~xxc... Date: Tue Jun 26, 2001 9:31 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Way covers Just wanted to share a new Taig tip, I have never been to fond of the way covers that was supplied with my Taig Mill, I like some other users have almost thrown them out thinking they were package materials, I wanted a solution that does not cost too much. I pride myself on low cost solutions, so what I used was the bellows that are supplied with a room air conditioner; they seem to be made of some kind of PVC and can be cut to size. Mine had a hard plastic spine in the end that allowed mounting; it even had holes drilled every inch or so. I did some testing with fluids that I use and so far they have not attacked the material and it cleans easy. Anyway happy milling. Chris DiCintio of Bradenton Florida ------- From: san3x~xxs... Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 3:10 am Subject: Split-bed taig...is it feasible? I mean is it feasible to remove the bed from its base and attach it to a square alu tube (thickwalled) then take another bed and use a dial indicator to align it with the first bed(using shims) then when everything is aligned perfectly inject epoxy into all crevices to make sure that nothing will move. The end result being a taig with a 30" bed. I am going to buy a taig lathe in the near future (next couple of months) but although the price vs quality is just too good to pass up it is a bit short for some of the stuff I want to use it for. And the double "franken taig" seems feasible; any input would be appreciated. San ------- From: Tony Jeffree Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 3:59 am Subject: Re: [taigtools] Split-bed taig...is it feasible? It has been done...look back through the previous posts for more details - done for woodworking uses if I recall correctly. Not clear to me that it would really be possible to align the two beds well enough for high accuracy use. Regards, Tony ------- From: J.C.Beechx~xxs... Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 10:10 am Subject: Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible? It would be cheaper and easier just to have a new steel bed made and ground. Plenty of places can surface grind to 30". Bolt to an alloy beam... Joules ------- From: "Robin S." Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 8:33 pm Subject: Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible? The problem with that is that lathe bedways are not just machined and sold. They have to be machined, heat-teated, ground and finished. If they aren't heat-treated, they will bow and are of no good. Does anyone know what kind of steel Taig uses? Ideally, one would machine, harden, anneal, grind, and lap. This would be expensive (to say the least) if you had the entire thing farmed out. It would be nice to bug Taig to make a longer bed. Unlike the Sherline, the Taig bed can be supported along its entire length. You would probably want to mount the lathe on some cheap surface plate for maximum stability. Regards, Robin ------- From: J.C.Beechx~xxs... Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 4:30 am Subject: Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible? The Taig bed has not been heat treated and hardend as far as I can tell. Just see what happens if you drag a bit of mild steel over the bed (not recommended). Joules ------- From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 12:02 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] Split-bed taig...is it feasible? They use a mild free machining steel - the bed is not heat treated. They assemble the extrusion, fill with concrete, then grind in a climate controlled room. Tom Cummings did what you suggest, but in a different way: http://www.cartertools.com/picture.html#TCT ------- From: Ken Jenkins Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 9:27 am Subject: Re: Split bed Taig I missed some of this thread but it all depends on what you're going to machine with this "split bed lathe. If it's wood primarily, then I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you're planning on turning perfect steel cylinders 2 feet long between centers then I think you'd be best to think about a different lathe all together. I think Taig probably would resist the idea of making the Taig much longer the reasoning being ... the product they have now is inexpensive, relatively compact, study and solid. You start making things bigger, longer, wider and you move into a whole different category in terms of performance and manufacturing. Ken J. ------- From: Larry Richter Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 11:47 am Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Split bed Taig The taig has a trick going for it in the bed mount that you would have to pay attention to, also. The pedestal mount is intended to free the bed from being deflected by whatever it is bolted to -- it's cantilevered. But for a few specialty jobs it might be worth the trouble to build a new long bed and use Taig's movable works on it, the main one being amateur rifle work, where the ability to cut a barrel to length and shape with inexpensive equipment could while away a lot of pleasent hours. A bed that used a piece of pre ground tool steel or pre ground pre hardened tool steel would probably be a nice starting point for building a lathe, not converting a Taig. ------- From: san3x~xxs... Date: Mon Aug 6, 2001 6:58 am Subject: Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible? straight edge.........??? Am I correct in understanding that no one here knows how to align a split bed lathe using a dial indicator??? Either using a long bar to attach the indicator to and align the second bed along 3 axis or using a long test bar between centers to do the same. ------- From: Myron Gochnauer Date: Mon Aug 6, 2001 9:43 am Subject: Re: [taigtools] toolbit steel This may be of general interest, so I'll ask Nicholas Carter here rather than privately: Can the Nicholas Carter index plate work with the Frog? The Frog relies (at least for some functions) on a super magnetic attached to, or embedded in, the large side of the Taig spindle pulley (facing the headstock). When the index plate is attached, is it possible to embed the magnet in the index plate? Myron ------- From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Date: Mon Aug 6, 2001 1:07 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] toolbit steel Yes, but you have to come up with a new way of mounting the sensor. I have pictures on my page: http://www.cartertools.com/frog2.jpg It is a very small, poor picture, but you will get the idea... http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- From: Stan Stocker Date: Mon Aug 6, 2001 2:07 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] Re: Split-bed taig...is it feasible? Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein wrote: > If you mean by attaching an indicator to the carriage on the first bed and > running it along the first and second, that would get it parallell, a good > solution. I don't know where one would get a long test bar though... If you get the two beds darn close, and have a steady rest and a compound slide, you can make your own even with a slight bed misalignment. Use a length of precision ground shaft, even drill rod in a pinch. Cut to length and deburr each end. Hold one end in just the tip of the 3 jaw chuck, put the other end through the steady rest with as little sticking out as possible. Face the exposed end. Set the compound to match the desired center taper, typically 60 degrees. Bore the 60 degree hole for the center. Don't drill it, bore it using the compound. Flip the piece end for end and repeat. Because the stock is running on it's circumference, the bore with be concentric with the OD. TaDa! Quick and dirty alignment bars that are quite accurate made quick and cheap! If you don't have a headstock center, make one up using one of the inexpensive adapters, or in a pinch for alignment, turn a piece of shaft in the 3 jaw to a 60 degree point. If you don't take it out, you'll have a headstock center dead on the spindle axis of rotation. If further details are needed I can post later, right now I've got to get on the road! Stan ------- From: Tony Jeffree Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 2:31 am Subject: Re: [taigtools] CNC Motor mounts > Can anyone tell me if there is a place or anyone making NEMA 34 > motor mounts that will fit the taig lathe cross slide? Or will I > have to make it myself?Thanks in advance, Bill I think you're on your own there... I know of people that have fitted size 23 motors to Taig lathes, but not size 34. The latter is likely to be overkill as far as power requirement goes. I don't know of any commercial motor mounts though, apart from the Frog, which uses an even smaller motor. Regards, Tony ------- From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 12:39 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] CNC Motor mounts You will have to make them yourself. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- From: Tony Jeffree Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 5:41 pm Subject: Re: [taigtools] milling in Taig lathe At 07:18 16/08/2001 +1000, you wrote: >the question is this... when using the lathe for milling, how is the >milling bit held in the lathe? (most of the milling stuff I've seen >emntioned is always talking about 3/8" diameter shafts... I haven't got >around to boring out the spindle of my Taig to 3/8" yet (add that to the >list), but even if I do, how would a collet work?... I can't see any way >other than using the chuck... have I missed something? or do we use >smaller diameter milling cutters? (viz 1/4" TCT router bits) The Taig collet set will hold end mills with 3/16" and 1/4" shafts very nicely. If you want to hold a 3/8" end mill, the best approach will be to make your own end mill holder from a blank arbor, rather than attempting to bore the spindle out. Regards, Tony ------- From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:11 pm Subject: RE: [taigtools] milling in Taig lathe Des: Sherline makes a 3/8 mill holder with the same 3/4-16 thread that the Taig spindle has, so that might do. Alternatively, you can drill and ream (or bore and ream) a 3/8 hole in one of the Taig blank arbors. Not an expensive job. I use one of the Taig arbors to make a 1/2 inch tool holder for my Sherline mill. Jerry ------- From: "Des Bromilow" Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:25 pm Subject: carriage question OK, I'm now designing the mount for my travelling steady. I'm thinking I can put it in one of two places. Position 1. bolt to the leading edge of the carriage. I can go there easy enough, but I'm not sure if it's the best place to be, Position 2. Bolt or clamp to the flat area on the tail stock side of the carriage (along side the slide) This position has an area of around 20 x 90mm of "unused space" which I can either drill and tap, or clamp onto. My questions ... Where does the commercial travelling steady fit on? Is there any comercial Taig accessories which have a need for that spare real estate along side the slide? (I don't want to drill and tap, and then find some other accessory is supposed to go there. My other option for mounting in position 2 is to drill two shallow locating holes on the sides of the carriage (two on the front, and two on the back) and then make the steady so it sits on the spare space, but clamps across the carriage and uses the locating pins to prevent rising. This solution represents the least "change" to the basic Taig platform, but is more complex to fabricate. Thoughts? Des ------- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:14:39 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: centering tail stock/ qeustion for Nick From: > Hi again. I have been trying off and on to center the tail stock > for a while now. I have it within about .001 or so, but allways move > it to far when making final adjustment. What is the best way to go > about this?? Jeff I use a plate that mounts to the tailstock t-slot on the back side. It has a screw that pushes the tailstock body over on the base. It is very easy to control the movement (in one direction). I should put a picture up of this on my site. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:15:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: carriage question On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Des Bromilow wrote: > OK, I'm now designing the mount for my travelling steady. > I'm thinking I can put it in one of two places. > Position 1. bolt to the leading edge of the carriage. I can go there > easy enough, but I'm not sure if it's the best place to be, > Position 2. Bolt or clamp to the flat area on the tail stock side of > the carriage (along side the slide) This position has an area of around > 20 x 90mm of "unused space" which I can either drill and tap, or clamp > onto. My questions:Where does the commercial travelling steady fit on? I've always seen them in front of the tool (on the headstock side), but that doesn't necessarily mean that's the "right thing". > Is there any comercial Taig accessories which have a need for that > spare real estate along side the slide? (I don't want to drill and > tap, and then find some other accessory is supposed to go there.) I put my TDI-DRO there, so I'd have to opt for some other mounting point. But that's just me. ;) > My other option for mounting in position 2 is to drill two shallow > locating holes on the sides of the carriage (two on the front, and two > on the back) and then make the steady so it sits on the spare space, > but clamps across the carraige and uses the locating pins to prevent > rising. This solution represents the least "change" to the basic Taig > platform, but is more complex to fabricate. Hmmm! > Thoughts? Take a look at how the Sherline steady rest is set up. It bolts to the top and, I think, the front of the cross-slide. Taig has t-slots on both surfaces, so that could be done without any real modification to the lathe itself. But yeah, that ups the complexity as well. Tom ------- Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 17:47:43 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Duplicator for wood turning on Taig (pictures) I posted some questions regarding a design I was working on for a wood turning duplicator on the Taig a while back. I got some very good responses and ideas from the group here. I thought I'd put up some pictures in the files area of the final design in case some of you are interested in how it turned out. It uses a LEXAN template and a brass probe tip mounted above a cut-off tool with the same cutting profile. It works great so far. Just finished a chess set (except for carving the knights) and it was a real time saver. It has two positions for both probe and cutter so that I can use it with the headstock and tailstock risers or without. The probe and cutter positions are adjustable and the entire head is also adjustable in a T-slot in the base section. The pictures are in my files area. You will have to log in to the Yahoo groups area to access (I think by now we all know how this works). Files: Ken Jenkins: Duplicator for wood turning : duplicator1.jpg duplicator7.jpg ------- Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 12:23:03 +1000 From: "Des Bromilow" Subject: my holidays Hi, I just got back to work from a 9 day holiday. What did I do with some of those days? Modified my tails tock with screw advance on the spindle, and screw based offset for long taper turning Built a boring bar holder and two boring bars. Built a knurling tool (clamp type) - But this doesn't seem to work very well. (The two knurls don't seem to line up too well, and keep "wandering" - I may have to rebuild. And best of all: Built a little guard to stop the chips falling into the rack gear which the carraige advances on. That job was one of the simplest and provided the best results. How did I do it? I had a small piece of that extrusion they use for suspended ceilings (looks like an inverted T with a barb in the vertical piece). Turns out that if you trim down one of the horizontal pieces the piece will fit into the dovetail behind the gear. then it was a case of trimming the protrusion so it didn't interfere with the saddle. If I get another piece I may redo it so the cover is closer to the rack, and slightly shorter. PS to help the cover get a good friction fit in the dovetail, I centre punched the piece to raise a few bumps which added a bit extra grip. Des ------- Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 06:47:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: my holidays Did anyone check out the article in Machinist's Workshop about modifications to the Taig? The guy inverted his rack so the teeth pointed down, and made a rubber shield for it. Chip free. I think his Taig was made before they started shipping with a shield on them. Mine's got the shield from Taig, which works really well. Otherwise I'd be inclined to make this mod. I'm hoping to have a one week holiday coming up at some point. Got lotsa machine shop stuff I want to do! Tom ------- Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 13:01:51 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: my holidays I had one of the early ones, with no shield. Made a shield from a piece of square section plastic tubing - works really well, but not quite as neat as the Taig-supplied ones. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 17:58:10 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Tailstock mods I've been busy modifying my tailstock today - photos in this folder: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/files/Tony%20Je ffree%27s%20Files/Tailstock%20mods/ The first of these shows a micrometer adjuster that allows the tailstock set-over to be adjusted accurately. This is mechanically very similar to the handwheel/leadscrew on the cross-slide, except the handwheel is 1" diam instead of about 1.25" in the case of the Taig item. I have used 20TPI screw & 50 grads marked on the handwheel; if you look very closely, you will see that the bearing plate is engraved with a vernier, so I can position the tailstock ram to tenths. This is probably totally unnecessary, but it was easy to do with the CNC mill (as was the handwheel engraving) so I decided to see what it came out like. You can see from the hole in the handwheel that it was originally fitted with a handle; however, this fouled the tailstock lever (as a consequence of other mods - see below), so I took it off. The leadscrew passes right through the body of the tailstock, and threads into a backplate attached onto the rear of the tailstock base. I have threaded the mounting bolts into the base, but T-bolts/nuts would be perfectly good for this, as the base has a T-slot in the right position. Other mods were to fit screws with knurled knobs in place of two of the socket head screws - these are visible in the first pic - and to fit an extended handle to the lever, made from some surplus 15mm OD copper plumbing pipe. The latter would have fouled the handwheel's handle, so I discarded the handle. This is no problem, as the handwheel can still be adjusted very easily. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:41:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Tailstock mods Excellent! I've been mucking with my tailstock prior to starting my first steam engine. Sorry, no pics yet (I'm at work), but I added a DRO to the tailstock. It's similar to the other "DRO"s on my lathe: it's a 2" travel dial indicator in a mounting block that uses the T-slots on top of the tailstock. There's a stop plate attached to the tailstock ram itself, on the brass ring. I used it last night to drill out the valve for a small oscillating engine. Worked like a charm! I was able to control the depth really really easily, and the intersecting holes met almost exactly at the drill tips. Looking at your pictures, Tony, I don't think my setup would interfere with yours at all. I was very interested to see the knurled knobs you used to replace the cap screws on the tailstock. I'd replaced mine some time ago with brass and steel t-handles. Turns out the indicator mount sitting on top of the tailstock fouled the t-handle for locking the ram, so I had to switch back to using a cap screw. I was puzzling about what to replace it with. Having seen yours, I think I'll make a set of knurled knobs. Hopefully I'll get a chance to take pictures tonight, and post them on the web site. I'm up to four indicators! Tom ------- Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 15:55:50 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Tailstock mods The knurled knobs are 1" diam by 1/2" thick - I would probably go for a bigger diam if I did it again, to get a bit more leverage (1.25" for example). The dial indicator mounted on the tailstock sounds like a cool idea - might pinch that one myself! Regards, Tony ------- Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:08:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Tailstock mods On Mon, 8 Oct 2001, Tom Benedict wrote: > On Mon, 8 Oct 2001, Tony Jeffree wrote: > > The dial indicator mounted on the tailstock sounds like a cool idea - > > might pinch that one myself! > Hey, pinch away! Nothing special about the mounting hardware. It's a > block with counterbored #10-32 screw holes 1.06" apart (I'm assuming > it should've been 1.00, but tha'ts what I measured.) There's a 3/8" > hole drilled and reamed through the block, and a #10-32 set-screw to > hold the D.I. in place. The part the tip of the D.I. rests against is > just a chunk of 1/8" aluminum with a hole bored in it to fit that > brass collar on the tailstock ram. The outline was cut with a jeweler's > saw, and the whole thing was filed to shape. I'll post pictures. ;) Ok, I posted some pictures. They're in my file area. Two directly pertain to the tailstock DRO: tail-dro-side.jpg tail-dro-nose.jpg Two views of the tailstock "DRO". (Gotta put quotes around that... Not strictly a DRO, not strictly as accurate as one might want. But loads better than no gradutations at all!) The nose view shows the plate attached to the tailstock ram. The shape was rough sawed then filed. The slit was cut with a jeweler's saw after drilling for the #2-56 locking screw. All the work except the saw and file work was done on the lathe using the 4-jaw chuck. Two more: dro-1.jpg dro-2.jpg These are kinda family portraits showing the four D.I. DRO's I've put on my lathe. The other three are the same as the ones pictured on Nick's site. One last one: oscillator-start.jpg A shot of the start I've made on an oscillating steam engine. It's sitting on top of a toolpost, right under one of the dial indicators. Hope it works when I finish it! This is what sparked my interest in finally finishing the tailstock DRO (I bought the dial indicator for it at the same time as the other three). I wanted to be able to drill the ports accurately. It worked quite well! I managed to make the tips of the drill holes for the ports and for the 1/8" inlet and exhaust holes (into which I still need to silver solder some 1/8" brass tubing) meet almost exactly. Almost forgot! I remembered that little t-handle I made for tightening the tailstock ram doesn't require much "throw" to go from full tight to full loose. Turns out the handled points in a convenient direction, so it was compatible with the tailstock DRO after all! Back in business. The knurled handles will have to wait. Tom ------- Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:09:15 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: What type of cement is used in the Taig lathe bed? 1/2 plastic portland cement 1/2 silica sand http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 21:55:22 -0000 From: "toddfoh" Subject: MiniMech info Here is my email: Ken, How much are you charging for your threading attachment on your webpage? You don't have a price listed. Are you geared up for producing these in quantity? Or are you making them to order? Why would you not include the gear for making 20 TPI threads, given that 1/4-20 is such a popular screw size? I hope you don't mind if I pass your answers on to the TaigTools Yahoo group... Todd F. The response: Todd, Right now pricing is a problem for me. I am going to be charging $150.00 for this kit until I find out how this settles down. Same as the $145.00+$5.00(shipping) that it is listed on eBay. There are quite a few man-hours in one of these kits and it depends upon how little I am willing to work for although the belts and pulleys are not cheap either - even in the quantity that I get them. The double sided timing belt that enables left hand threads to be cut costs about $10.00 believe it or not. I was going to offer the kit with the Left-Hand-Threading attachment as extra option but didn't do it (yet). I am getting geard up to make these in quantity but need to know the market reaction (In business terms). Yes, I was going to include the (may yet do so) gear/pulley for 20TPI but it was kind of a single use gear. I ran a computer program using all the different pulleys in all different combinations to see what timing chains were most practical. It turns out that the supplied pulleys (Basic-Six set) all get used at least a couple of times in the complete repertorie of set ups but the 20 tooth gear used/needed for the 20TPI only got used for that one thread pitch (maybe a couple of other not-so-important pitches also). Same for the pulley required for the 44TPI thread. I figured that these pulleys are so easily available (with a 1/4" arbor hole) that most users would/could get their own and many others besides. I had to stop somewhere. Also 20TPI is getting on the heavy side of what can be driven by the little V-belt pulley that comes with the lathe and which I also use. A bigger pulley definately lies within the capability of the lathe considering its ridgity but its large diameter gets in the way of my puuley carrier frame so I am going with the original pulley size. A hand crank can be made to get some real torque into the spindle for heavy cuts though. Take a look at the web site www.MiniMech.com if you haven't yet. I have to quit writing so much and get back to the hardware. I don't mind you passing this along anywhere. The exposure is welcome but I've got to provide the 'goods' first. More work than I thought. Regards, Ken Knaell And my response back: Ken, Thanks for getting back to me. I'll definitely pass this info on the the rest of the Taig Tools people. Don't be suprised if you get a bunch of responses. I certainly understand about component prices being high. I'm a mechanical engineer, and price out components like this all the time. I did check out your website as soon as I saw the ebay add. I have a suggestion you might consider... It looks like 7 to 10 of the parts are milled from chunks of aluminum. Keeping in mind the market you are targeting (Taig owners who tend to be "do-it-yourselfers") perhaps you might considering a "semi-kit" form of your product. For me personally, I wouldn't mind milling the "chunky" parts myself, if I had drawings to work from. The rest of the purchased parts, the threaded and straight rods, and the split nut assembly would be the hardware I would want to buy from you. This may allow you to reduce your labor costs of machining, while still getting compensation for your design. Photocopying drawings and getting paid for it is more profitable time-wise than machining parts. This would let you reduce the cost of your kit as well. I have a Taig mill, but I do not yet have a Taig lathe, specifically because there was not threading capability available as an easy add on. The next best thing, (and your direct competition) is the CNC Frog add-on for $200. Getting your kit down in price from $150 to $100 would do two things. 1) Lots of people would buy Taig lathes, because threading would be available for a reasonable price. 2) You would sell a lot of kits. Given the $50 price difference between your complete add-on and a CNC option, I think people will weigh the difference and go with the Frog. But, $100 for a kit that requires some modest effort to complete wouldn't be bad at all. In any case, probably the best thing you could do to spread the word about your threading attachment would be to let Nick Carter borrow a kit to review. He is the Taig Tools guru, and if he likes it, and puts a review on his website, you will be all set. That is what happened with the Frog attachment, and they sold so many they couldn't keep the parts in stock. If there is anything I can do to help you out in your efforts, let me know. Now that I know your product is available, I'll probably be placing an order with Nick for a lathe within the week. It is in my own interest to help you get your kit cost down, because I plan to become a customer in the near future. good luck, Todd Ferrante http://my.myaxiom.net/~r9800216/MillingMachine/MillingMachine.htm ------- Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:20:31 -0600 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: compound cross slide >Recently i swapped the bed from my compound cross slide onto the >lathe saddle by drilling a hole in the saddle to take the nut, this >worked fine but now I want to resurrect my compound cross slide and >mount it onto an aluminium block to modify it into a vertical milling vise. >First job is to make a new block that fits at the front of the bed to >carry the screw handle, this is the (usually) blued steel block held >on by two machine screws, my problem is identifying the thread for >the big hole that the control screw fits through, I think it is a >5/16th but not sure what type of thread, can anyone tell me please? > regards, Terry I hope that what I am about to tell you will be of some use. I modified my Taig lathe to accept Sherline hand wheels (see Nick Carters Taig Lathe pages picture section). What I did was measure the outside diameter of the handwheel shaft's guide threads for the major diameter. I then counted the number of threads in a quarter inch and multiplied by four. The threads were cut using the gathered data and the part worked fine. Forrest ------- Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:07:01 GMT From: Terence Lynock Subject: Re: compound cross slide The message <00a401c1a556$65dae7a0$6a28f30cx~xxattbi.com> from "Jeff Bissonnette" contains these words: >> Was this conversion that straightforward? I'm considering it as well, but don't want to scrap a saddle doing it. Does it really result in a significant gain in cross slide travel? Thanks, Jeff << It took me about ten minutes to do, just mark out the position of the hole on the saddle for the brass nut from the backplate of the compound slide and drill it out, the spigot length on the compound nut is different to the one on the normal cross slide, cant remember which one had the longer brass nut spigot but I just shortened it to suit. What I like about the mod is that apart from about 3/8th'' extra travel is that the knob travels with the cross slide, the original knob is fixed to the saddle and doesnt move with the cross slide, the remains of my compound have just been rebuilt into a milling attachment, made a replacement block from brass to go on the front of the cross slide bed to take the knob, made the 90' mounting block from a big lump of aluminium. I just have the holding jaws for the bed to make and its finished, I used a spare compound slide baseplate for the milling attachment so I can still take the complete bed with the brass nut off the milling attachment and put it back on its proper baseplate for use as a compound cross slide, why Taig dont come up with something like this I dont know, all you need is the 90' mounting block and a baseplate, regards, Terry ------- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:40:02 -0800 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: Re: Duplicator for the Taig? From: rrhewson > Has anyone any suggestions for a duplicator to fit the Taig, either > store bought or homemade. I have sen varous types for full size > lathes, but not the "mini". I want to turn chess sets out of wood and > make parts that are close copies to each other. You might try: http://www.pennstateind.com/new.html They have a "Universal" duplicator for pen turning lathes, for about $100. I bought a duplicator from them for my Carba-Tec mini wood lathe, and am quite happy with it. Dave Goodfellow Northridge, CA ------- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:03:37 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Duplicator for the Taig? Remember that there are t-slots on the headstock and tailstock behind the lathe. Add a piece of angle iron, bolt a profile to that, make the crosslide controllable from that with a cam follower (remove leadscrew) and spring load it, and use compound for feed. (one of the projects I may get to some day...) http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:55:34 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Wood turning duplicator Check my folder in the files area. I built a duplicator for my Taig lathe for just that purpose! Works great. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/files/Ken%20Jenkins/Duplicator%20for %20wood%20turning/ ------- Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:47:28 -0500 From: "Daniel Munoz" Subject: RE: Re: Duplicator - Terence Hello Terence! About brass cannons, I made a few ones with my lathe (I have a Sherline), and even without a duplicator I learned a way to make them all at the same time, repeating after each single setting the cut on all the cannons in parallel. I used a setup "between points": http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon1.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon2.jpg You certainly noticed the material I used was big brass bolts :-) The easiest source of brass I could found. And here they are, finished: http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon3.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon4.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon5.jpg http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canonx6.jpg But surely using a duplicator would have been easiest ! Fortunately I only needed 6 cannons for my model "La Belle" ;-) I also machined maple wood with some success on the mill, cutting all the parts for the cannon carriages very quickly, slicing some wood bars previously shaped using end mill cutters with the proper profile: http://pages.infinit.net/dmunoz/belle/canon-affut.jpg The carriages are not finished, I still need to make in brass all the tiny little rigging parts, bolts, nails... Are you using your Taig lathe to make parts for your ship models ? Daniel. ------- Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:52:22 -0000 From: "Leon Heller" Subject: Some simple lathe additions The Peatol mounting plate I use for my lathe and motor is a bit awkward, as it has the motor support plate mounting studs protruding from the underside. Until recently I just rested the thing on a couple of pieces of wood, but it wasn't very secure, and the whole thing tended to slide about a bit. I went to my local Maplin Electronics emporium and purchased four of the largest circular rubber mounting feet they had. They are nice and robust with steel inserts. They wouldn't raise the plate enough for the studs, so I made some spacers from a piece of 1 1/8" Al round bar, turning them to length and drilling a 6 mm hole to match the rubber feet. I drilled corresponding holes in the mounting plate and fitted them. It now looks very neat, vibrates less and is extremely stable. When drilling the spacers I got fed up with the drill lever hurting my hand and decided to do something about it. The lever appeared to be 1/2" wide and my usual metal supplier had some 5/8" OD steel tubing that he thought would have about the correct ID, so I purchased a piece, and cut off about 7". The lever was slightly too wide for the tubing, so I filed it down a bit until the tube was a nice push fit. Problem solved! When I removed the lever, a bit of the split-pin securing it to the tailstock spindle broke off, so I turned a little shouldered pin out of a short piece of MS to replace it - much neater. I never liked that split-pin, does anyone? Leon Leon Heller, G1HSM leon_hellerx~xxhotmail.con http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller Low-cost Altera Flex design kit: http://www.leonheller.com ------- Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:27:14 -0800 From: stevejacksonx~xxbigfoot.com Subject: lead screw mod Does anyone have a source for left hand coupling nuts in either 1/4- 20 or 5/16-18? Can find threaded frod but no couplings. Thanks Steve ------- Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:03:30 -0700 From: "Doug Powell" <4machiningx~xxattbi.com> Subject: Re: lead screw mod Hardware with left hand threads can be tough to find. The smallest LH coupling nut McMaster offers is 3/8"-16. You may have to pick up a LH tap and make your own. Their web site address is www.mcmaster.com. Good luck, Doug ------- Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:08:39 -0600 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: lead screw mod For the nut you can use a turn-buckle. One half of the turn-buckle has a left hand thread in it. The threaded rod can be special ordered from most hardware stores. Forrest ------- Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:56:37 EST From: tadici283x~xxcs.com Subject: Re: Re: MT2 to Taig spindle ... huh? other choices Here is an idea that I did some time ago: Go to the local scrap yard and get a block of alumin. 3x3x4, then order a tailstock extension from some where like Shoptask (approx. 15 dollars). This is a piece of metal that has the MT2 taper in it already and is ideal for making a new headstock for your Taig mill. This will need to be turned down to 1" and the alumin block drilled/bored to match new bearings; the end away from the MT2 turn down to accept a pulley and drill through that end for a draw bar. Now you can put larger bearing in your new headstock that can take much greater loads. A good bearing to try is boat trailer bearings; they are cheap in cost and super strong. I started with this but later switched to shielded bearings that were smoother to turn. With this headstock you can place greater loads and also turn it up higher although that is not necessary for most jobs. This is also a good time to switch to xl pulleys and belts and a varispeed motor like a treadmill motor. Chris of Bradenton FLA. ------- Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:39:03 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: CNC Mill as Lathe I posted some pictures in my folder for how I'm using my CNC mill as a lathe. They're in "Tom's Taig"/index.html"EMC CNC Mill". The basic setup is a Taig CNC mill with the head turned 90 degrees clockwise. This puts it rotating the opposite direction from what I'm used to, but I couldn't get the motor to fit any other way. (At some point I'll wise up and change the motor mount so it can sit on either side of the spindle.) All in all, the results are pretty good. I wasn't that careful about aligning the spindle to be parallel to the mill bed, and I didn't really measure my tooling before setting up the toolpath. So if things look a little rough, it's because they really were a little rough. This configuration isn't exactly how I plan on using this machine. This was just a test run to see if I could control it properly. (The answer is yes, but it took me a while because I'm using new software I'm not 100% comfortable with yet.) Eventually I'd like to use two different setups for doing lathe work on the mill: The first (my initial idea) is to actually mount my Taig lathe on the mill bed. I've already made the adapter plate. I just need a bunch of #10-32 screws to finish the job. This will let me turn long things and use the tailstock. The second setup is to mount the spindle vertically, just as if it were to be used as a mill. The chuck would be mounted on the spindle, face-down. All the lathe tooling would be mounted on the mill bed, pointing up, or on short toolposts, pointing sideways. This would let me do face milling using a number of different cutters. I'll take pictures of the other setups when I get them working. Tom ------- Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:22:08 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re: Mill as a lathe Hehahaha! Yeah, bonkers is right. I tried cutting stainless today with a carbide cutter. The finish is ten times better what I've been getting by hand. I'm sold. Still haven't actually aligned the head with the mill bed, though. This is all speculative. In case anyone's been keeping track of my other posts, you've probably figured out what this is for (initially, anyway): I couldn't afford the P.P.Thornton (Successors) clock wheel and pinion cutters, so I'm making a set. I got the profiles all CADded up, and I'm ready and rarin' to go. I'm just waiting for the order of drill rod to show up, and I'll start cutting. If I manage to pull off making gear cutters using this setup, I'll definitely take pictures! Tom ------- Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:26:31 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: CNC Mill as Lathe Tom, I have been thinking of doing this with some differences. Using Supercam, I'll swap the z and y axis motor leads so that I can use Supercams plotbuff feature. I plan on mounting a bunch of toolposts on the lathe and using it almost like a turret lathe. I haven't figured out how to mount each tooltip at a certain dimension yet, but one should be able to turn, drill and cutoff in one program. The head would stay in the same vertical position, rather than horizontally. You could also make yours perform like a turret lathe as well, by mounting more toolholders to the bed. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:24:55 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: CNC Mill as Lathe Nick, for face milling, or milling on short things, I think that'd be my prefered setup. I think if you chucked up an indicator block, say a cylinder with known diameter (0.500", say) and a step 1.00" away from the collet, dropping to a 0.200" diameter, you could line up a lot of tools just by moving the head around. For milling long things, I still think the best bet is going to be mounting the entire lathe on the mill bed. It'll mean fewer positions to mount tooling, but it'll mean getting a tailstock out of the deal. I want to try using this setup to do some pen turning. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:59:39 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Boring out spindle to 25/64ths > I know this subject has been hashed out several times. But, if you > bore out the spindle hoe from .343 to just over .375, will there be > any problems using the collets. I use the collets quite a bit and > really do not want to give up their precision. It would be really > nice to have a 3/8" spindle hole, but I would not do it if it would > make the collets fit less precise. > Have any of you folks done this and still continue to use collets? > Any and all comments welcome. I have done this twice (once on my lathe spindle and once on my mill spindle. No problems what-so-ever. I if you think it through the spindle past-thru has nothing to do with the way collet gripping works. Ken Jenkins ------- Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:07:36 -0800 From: "JimBeggerow" Subject: Re: Bore out the taig to 3/8" No problem bored mine about a year ago and the collets will work fine. I even made a 3/8 collet that works very well. Jim B ------- Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:20:25 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Bore out the taig to 3/8" I did this on my mill and my lathe, but I stopped short of boring clear through. My concern is that I use the drill chuck arbor on both mill and lathe quite a bit. I was worried that boring clear through would make it so the nut that holds the arbor in place could no longer be used. At one point I asked about that, and Nick said something like, "Fine. Make another nut that DOES fit." DOH! I still haven't done this, but it was a point well taken. The collets work great with the bored out spindle. And if boring clear through makes it so the drill chuck arbor doesn't work, you can always make another nut. Tom ------- Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:04:37 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: longer bed ...a few people have grafted a second bed onto the first: http://www.cartertools.com/picture.html#TCT shows one way http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 23:22:54 -0000 From: "martingene95030" Subject: Re: Backstop on the Taig mill --- In taigtoolsx~xxy..., "jumbo75007" wrote: > To make it quicker to square up and secure my vice and possibly > other items to the mill table, I have thought about making a > "backstop" to go on the back side of the mill table. My > thought is to drill and tap Years ago when I bought the milling attachment, I drilled and tapped two holes on the back side of the milling attachment. Bolted a "backstop" to the milling attachment and when I install it on the slide, I just push forward on the milling attachment as I tignten the bolt holding the attachment to the top slide. If I remember, I dialed in the attachment and filed the back so it was parallel to the back of the slide. ------- Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:43:56 -0700 From: James Eckman Subject: Re: Backstop on the Taig mill > To make it quicker to square up and secure my vice and possibly other > items to the mill table, I have thought about making a "backstop" to > go on the back side of the mill table. How square is square? If your going to use a backstop, that's probably about as accurate as using a square. Otherwise you will have to tram it in as required for high precision setups. ------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:27:10 -0000 From: "Silicon Knight" Subject: Hi Is there a way to hold a 3/8" shank tool in the TAIG? On the Sherline machines, you can get an end mill holder to do that; is the same option available? Seems to me that, not being able to hold a 3/8 shank cutter is a BIG design flaw, seeing how a lot of cutters are 3/8" shank. I am interested in swapping out the TAIG"s spindle with the Sherline spindle; seeing how Sherline designed their spindle to use a standard Morse Taper #1 taper and has the provision to chuck 3/8" holders. Has anyone made this modification before? I do have access (and the skills) to a machine shop with a nice Bridgeport milling machine, so I can bore out the bearing mounts to the right size to fit the Sherline bearings, if necessary. ------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:59:55 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Hi http://www.cartertools.com/newjose4.html has the details how to make one if you have a lathe. Several customers have made their own spindle/headstocks. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:28:34 -0500 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Hi A couple of thoughts -- 1. Why not take an instance of Taig's threaded arbor and bore and ream it for a 3/8 inch diameter mill, then use a single-ended 3/8 shank tool with you Taig? I've successfully used the Taig arbors on my Sherline mill to get a 1/2 inch bore. 2. Otherwise, why not simply trade the Taig for a Sherline, or lacking that, purchase the Sherline headstock and adapt it to your Taig? Jerry ------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:53:11 -0800 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: Re: Hi I bought a Sherline end mill holder. Works fine, without modification Dave Goodfellow Lancaster, CA ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a series of pictures and instructions on the Yahoo Sherline group site in the Photos section that shows a clever set of clamps/mods to deal with backlash on all 3 mill axes. Simple and relatively bulletproof. Should apply equally well to mills and lathes by most makers, particularly the smaller machines. ------- Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 18:13:56 +0000 From: "steve sc" Subject: Motorized traverse axis Taig Lathe Thought the group might be interested in a project I just completed. I "semi" automated the traverse axis of my Taig lathe. Check out: http://home.attbi.com/~l.scampini/tlathe.htm Steve ------- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:13:59 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Question regarding the Taig... On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, gt40_gt40 wrote: > I need to fabricate some small bushings from aluminum and Delrin (approx > 1.5" OD). I'm trying to decide of which lathe to get and I'm stuck > between a mini-lathe (Homier, probably,) or the Taig (which is cheaper, > and frankly, looks better made.) My concern is being able to accurately > bore a hole through the center of the bushing. I'll get to this in a sec. > I understand the many of the Taig kits come with a Jacobs 1/4" chuck to > mount on the tailstock. Is a larger chuck available (I'd like to bore > an ID of up to 0.75") Larger chucks are available, but I'd use a different approach, if possible. > Second, do you think boring a through hole is possible with the design > of the Taig's headstock? You betcha. You might need to put a spacer behind your part so the boring bar doesn't hit the chuck, but it's certainly doable. > I'm thinking of possibly machining the bushing perhaps 0.25" too long, > boreing *into* that extra bit, flipping the piece around in the lathe, > and then cutting off the excess material, leaving (hopefully) a cleanly > bored through-hole. Opinions? Are you making two separate bushings, one out of Delrin and one out of aluminum, or is it a single piece with both materials in it? The reason I'm asking is that I'd be inclined to approach the Delrin part a little differently than I'd approach the aluminum part. I'm assuming my material is already at the correct OD. If it's not, I'd turn it down between centers until it had the right OD. At 1.5" OD, you probably wouldn't get that much deflection. If I was making a lot of these, I'd be inclined to set up the three jaw chuck and bore out the jaws to 1.5". That would let you hold the part in the 3-jaw chuck, which would make for faster material changes. It would also give you the option of bolting on a set of custom jaws that would support the part for its entire length. I wouldn't be so concerned about this with aluminum, but if your ID is close to your OD, the Delrin might have a tendency to squish out of round. Using custom jaws, you could essentially grab the Delrin for its entire length and for most of its circumference. Back to boring out the hole: Pre drill with a nice big drill, but still leave some material. Finish the bore with a boring bar. It'll give you a smoother surface, and it won't have any tendency to go off-center like a drill can. Since the boring bar is attached to the cross slide and not the tailstock, this also means that you're not limited by the size of drill bit you can chuck into the tailstock. You can start with a 1/2" hole and open it up to 1.5", though it might take a while. At 1.5" OD, this would be a job well within the range of the Taig. Flipping the bushing around and facing it to length is certainly an option, but it's one I'd avoid if possible. Once you remove a part and re-clamp it, you're never 100% certain if it's lined up the same way. If you can do the entire operation before removing the part, so much the better. Just curious, do you have any other jobs in mind? The reason I'm asking is there are ways to cut down on tooling costs if all you're ever going to make are these bushings. I mentioned the 3-jaw chuck, but you could also do this by making a custom jig on a faceplate. It would mean not having to buy a chuck, and it would still hold the part so the ID and OD would be concentric. > I'm also looking for a good source for the lathe. I got mine from Nick Carter, and have had zero complaints: http://www.cartertools.com Tom ------- Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:27:50 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Live Center? From: > Does anyone know where I can get a larger live center than the one > Taig sells that will fit in the Taig tailstock? Kevin No one sells one, but it would be easy enough to make, just start with some precision ground 1/2" shafting, some bearings which will fit, a snap ring or collar behind the bearings to take up the thrust, and make a 60 deg. cone with a bored recess for the bearings. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:37:41 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: ww spindle At 07:58 11/02/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Is it worth the extra $30 to get the spindle that accepts ww collets? >Does this effect the machine capacities at all? It makes sense if you already have a stack of WW collets, (they are fairly expensive to buy, even used ones - I believe Sherline sell their own at not unreasonable prices) and if you are likely to do a lot of work using collets. WW collets are probably more accurate than the Taig collets. What you will lose is: - The ability to use the standard Taig collets (which are cheap & reasonably accurate for most purposes), but if you have WW collets that is not an issue; - The ability to use the Taig headstock drill chuck arbor (which needs the Taig collet taper); - The ability to use the Taig chuck depth stop (which needs the Taig collet taper). One possibility if you can afford it is to buy both headstocks & swap them over according to what you need. Alternatively, you can make up your own drill chuck adaptor and depth stop using the WW taper - neither would be hard to do. I have made myself a headstock drill chuck adaptor from a Taig blank arbor - particularly useful in the Taig mill where the limited Z travel can make it a hassle to use the Taig drill chuck arbor. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:16:07 -0000 From: "barrywatch " Subject: Re: ww spindle Bruce: To add to what Tony said, the advantage of making your own 8mm adapter from a blank arbor is that you are able to use the existing taig collets as well as the 8mm collets. What's the advantage? The 8mm collets don't permit through work much above 5mm. Collets above that size only permit a short stub to be inserted. With the Taig collets you can go up to 5/16", approximately 8mm diameter. So there is an advantage in keeping the original headstock, especially for clock work. Granted the 8mm collets are probably more accurate, but the Taig collets are good for their purpose and this just provides you with more options. Barry B ------- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:14:41 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Re: ww spindle Barry - Making an 8mm/WW adaptor from a blank arbor is certainly a possibility, but I suspect that you would lose some (if not all) of the potential accuracy advantage of the 8mm/WW collets in the process. My experience with using blank arbors is that repeatability is not that great - machine it in situ so the bore is true, remove & re-fit the arbor, & the bore is not guaranteed to be concentric anymore. So my personal choice would be to use the WW headstock for WW collets & the standard headstock for the Taig collets. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:37:42 -0600 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: ww spindle Bruce: If you do get A WW spindle be aware that WW collets do not offer the same side load ability that the taig collets do. I have a Taig lathe with a WW spindle and it works well. I also have a standard spindled Taig too and use it more often due to the bigger opening in the spindle. Forrest ------- Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:21:46 EST From: thomasm923x~xxaol.com Subject: Re:Re: Taig Servo Conversion Msg8320 Has anyone considered BSA's Anti-Backlash Supernuts as an alternative to ballscrews in a Taig retrofit? We have them on a tabletop mill and I really like them. Backlash is almost nonexistent. The half-inch screw would be a tight fit on a Taig, but this is what I am going to shoot for. I know of a guy that successfully used the 3/8 screw on a Taig. http://www.ballscrews.com/html/2/2_index.html Be sure to check out their Fine Line ballscrews. REALLY fine threads... http://www.ballscrews.com/html/fineline/index.html -Tom Murray ------- Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:36:27 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re:Re: Taig Servo Conversion Msg8320 On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, J Hamilton wrote: --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, thomasm923x~xxa... wrote: > > Has anyone considered BSA's Anti-Backlash Supernuts as an > > alternative to ballscrews in a Taig retrofit? > Acetyl inserts in the Supernuts sounds like it would be good for the > sort of loading I'm up for. That does seem like the way to go. Now > you've gone all interesting with possibility... as long as they aren't > 1K$. I'll make an inquiry about price. > Does this guy you mention post to the group or have a website (thinking > out loud: that would be too EASY!) ? Fitting it under the table might be a bit of a trick, but BSA's web site says it'll handle 125 pound loads. Their finest 1/2" lead is 0.100", though. For a stepper system that would make it faster on the rapids, but it would reduce the amount of force a given motor could apply. Using the SNAB nut from BSA would require a slightly more complicated mount (you'd have to do threading), but it's a smaller size and has a load cap of 150 pounds instead of 125. The OD on their 1/2" nut is 1.000", and it'll go down to an 0.0625" lead on the screw (still not 0.050", but close.) So it looks like going this route would still entail replacing the leadscrews, but from what their literature says the price should still be easier on the pocketbook than ballscrews. Tom ------- Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:33:04 -0800 From: "JAMES BEGGEROW" Subject: Re: Re:Re: Taig Servo Conversion Msg8320 I have converted the z axis on my Taig with a 1/2-10 left hand supernut. The next project is to convert the x and y axis with 3/8-10 left hand supernuts. I also converted a Homier 7x12 lathe with supernuts last year and have run a couple of thousand parts on it and can hold tolernces of +/- .0005. So far no problems. Jim -------- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:31:15 -0000 From: "stevenson_engineers " Subject: Re:Re: Taig Servo Conversion Msg8320 >--- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, Tony Jeffree wrote: > The point about the design is that the spring adjusts the > separation of the two parts of the nut to take up any backlash. > Take a look at the diagram here: > http://www.ballscrews.com/html/2/9.html > When you fit the nut to the screw, you compress the spring. > Obviously, there is a limit to the pre-load that the spring can provide, > but it is better than nothing. I think the design in MEW used aluminium > bronze for the nuts, but this sounds like massive overkill to me. I have modified some lead screw nuts in the past to make anti backlash nuts using those dished belville washers in opposed pairs. Six washers making 3 pairs will only take up about 1/4" in length. You need a series of locating holes around the free nut so you can adjust it and then use a locking screw to locate into the nearest hole. Two screw locations in opposite positions and an uneven number of locating holes will give you double the combinations. This makes for a very compact nut arrangement. Another mod well worth doing is to drill a lubricating hole into the nut block and fit a small nylon pipe. Lead this pipe up inside a 35mm film can and epoxy it in so the pipe is near the top. Then fit a small piece of pipe cleaner into the pipe and bend over into the film can. If this is filled with oil and placed higher than the nut block it will act as an auto lube. To stop it leaking at the end of machine use, just bend the pipe cleaner clear of the oil level. John S. ------- Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 06:46:00 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Re:Re: Taig Servo Conversion Msg8320 At 15:50 13/02/2003 -1000, you wrote: >Say, do you think this trick would work for slides? I've got a shaper I'm >in the middle of refurbing. I put snap-cap oilers on it, but I'd rather >set something up that's a little more like what you describe. I'd >probably find something a little larger than a 35mm film can, though. The >shaper really does kinda suck oil on the ram. Can't see why you couldn't adapt it to work with slides, and even fit a tap below the can to turn off the lube. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:59:15 -0000 From: "yrrab57 " Subject: I'm worried - newbie I bought a taig lathe (called a peatol where I live , UK) about 2 weeks ago. I assembled the whole thing in great exitment and started lapping in the crosslide as per instuctions. While doing this I noticed that the carriage ran much more easily at the far right hand end of the ways than anywhere else. After lapping and cleaning off the bed and lubricating the problem persisted. If you imagine a verical axis running down right through the centre of the carriage - I could rotate the carriage about this axis (at the right hand end of the ways), not much, but I could hear, see and feel the movement, only at one end of the ways though. On top of this there was obviously something wrong with the crosslide screw mechanism. It was tight in parts while operating the screw. You could also see that the screw was not turning true. I contacted my supplier and sent the ways, crosslide and screw back to him. Talking on the phone a day or two later my supplier told me that he cold find nothing at all wrong with the ways/carriage and that he had straightened out the crosslide screw. I was confused, (I know what I saw), but bowing to superior experience I agreed to him sending the things back to me. Now that I have it back - it's just the same. If I tighten the gibs up and liberally oil the ways, I can find a state where no play is detectable but to do this it makes the travel of the carriage just a bit too tight at the left hand end of the ways. The crosslide screw is still exactly the same. I know its wrong because I also bought the milling attachment and the screw on that is fine. Being inexperienced I was feeling that perhaps this is how things normaly are and perhaps I was expecting too much, but tonight I have found a new problem and I am just about ready to send the whole thing back and forget about my dream of owning a lathe. I set up the tailstock with a small drill bit in the chuck, removed the 3 jaw chuck and fitted a small milling bit in the spindle. I moved the tailstock up so that the two were close and to my dismay....... They don't meet. The drill bit was visibly lower than the milling tool. Perhaps only half a mm but visible. Am I expecting too much? Can these problems be rectified? Who should rectify them? I really need some advise from people who know these machines. thanks in anticipation. ------- Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:54:14 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: I'm worried - newbie That sounds odd. Mine is smooth from one end of the ways to the other. And at no point can I grab the carriage and find any sort of play. It's consistant along the entire lathe bed. The cross slide screw is stickier. Mine came with a bent screw. I did what I could to straighten it, and over time it has basically worn itself in. It's pretty uniform now. The tailstock sounds dreadful! Here are some things to try: Using a collet, chuck up a length of material (brass would work well on this, but take your choice). If you've got a compound, use that to turn a taper. If not, rotate your toolpost so the cutting edge hits the brass at an angle. Use that as a forming tool to cut a tapered point on the material. The angle of the taper isn't important, but something close to 60 degrees included angle would be nice. Leave that material in the collet. Take the Jacobs chuck off the tailstock. There should be a dead center on the end of the tailstock ram. Bring the tailstock ram up right next to the taper you cut in the headstock. See if they're anything even approaching close. As a last test, get some thin material (I use my 6" scale for this), and put it between the headstock and the tailstock, and use the tailstock handle to "pinch" the material between the two tapered points. Ideally you want the thin material to be pinned so that there's no tilt to it. It should be straight up and down, and should be parallel to your cross slide. If there's any sort of tilt to it, it means your tailstock ram is not centered on your headstock spindle. All's not lost provided it's close. If it's off by half a millimeter, I'd definitely send it back and try to get something closer. If it's off by a few thou, you can fix it: Before doing anything else, try this test with the tailstock completely retracted and with the tailstock completely extended. Hopefully the two tests will have similar or identical results. This means your tailstock ram is parallel to the lathe bed. Just not centered on the spindle. If it looks like the tailstock ram is parallel to the lathe bed, the next step is to set the left-right adjustment. There should be a cap head screw on the tail end of the tailstock. Loosen this and adjust the tailstock side to side until it looks like the pinch test says it's straight in that regard. If it looks like any up-down adjustment is necessary, find out if the tailstock is too high or too low. If it's too low, you can shim it up. If it's too high, you'll need to remove material from it. Hope it's low. Start with thin shims and work your way up. You'll have to re-center the side-to-side adjustment each time, unfortunately. This should get you going. But again, if it's off as much as you say I'd send it back and get another. Half a millimeter is a LOT. Mine came with a side-to-side offset of about 7 thou, and a top-to-bottom offset of about two thou. Tom ------- Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:07:26 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: I'm worried - newbie Sometimes the problem isn't the carriage, but the eccentric for the pinion. If it is set incorrectly it can cause binding. Try setting it looser. For the crosslide screw, I often lap the screw, slides and the bearing, running the whole thing back and forth while tightening the gibs with a cordless drill/driver (easier than cranking back and forth by hand 200 times). Keep adding lapping (bon ami and oil) compound as you do this. Sometimes the nut is set incorrectly, I find deburring the hole it is inserted into so it is a sliding rather than press fit helps. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:13:56 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: bearing block thread mystery solved. For those that care, the thread on the bearing block of the crosslide has always been something of a mystery. I was talking to Taig and they revealed it is a 1/4"-28 helicoil/sti thread, so although 28tpi, it is way oversize in diameter. They just found it was the best thread for the job. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:24:08 -0000 From: "David Carter " Subject: Re: I'm worried - newbie I assembled my new lathe this weekend, and am having trouble with the crosslide leadscrew -- it is extremely difficult to turn, even with the gib adjustments loosened up. I lapped the crosslide to the carriage, so I don't think that is the problem. I suspect that the crosslide screw nut (100-25) may not be completely straight in its mounting hole in the slide. It was a very tight press fit in the hole. I deburred the edge of the hole, but it was still very tough to get the nut to go in. Any suggestions on how to recover from here? I'm not sure how I would go about getting the nut back out of the slide without damaging it. Thanks, David ------- Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:34:55 +0900 From: "Mark Thomas" Subject: Backlash problem (long) [TAIG CNC MILL] Just wanted to tell about my experience in adjusting the backlash on my CNC mill. I have the extended bed version, and have had an increasing problem with too much backlash for a while now, ending up at about .025, far too much even with software compensation. Now I know the procedure for adjusting it, but I found that when I adjusted the grub screws on the saddle nut that the table would start to jam up before the backlash was acceptable, this was particularly at the extreme ends of the table. If I wanted to make use of the full table I needed to reduce my maximum travel speed down to about 10 IPM otherwise the stepper would start missing steps. I knew that others were talking of 30 IPM, in fact Taig advertises this. Okay where to begin? I decided to tear down the X axis and see what I could find. After removing the lead screw, I tested the table by itself and found that with the gib adjusted correctly when the table was in the middle I could not move the table closer than about 1.5 inches from either end without force, this meant I only had a usable 9" of travel. I decided to lap the table thinking that this might be the root cause of the problem, lapping and cleaning took about 3 hours. When I had everything clean of grit I lightly oiled the ways and put the table back on. What a surprise, the table slid across the ways with only light finger pressure. I readjusted the gib carefully and now I had a nice even pressure the length of the whole table. This was getting exciting. I reassembled the lead screw carefully adjusting the saddle nut to what I thought was the right amount of pressure and started to test. Okay, the first setup wasn't that great, I still had lots of backlash, but at least the table moved freely. I started tightening the grub screws in the saddle nut (middle screw loose for now) adding about a 15 degree turn to each alternately and testing the table by running it from one end to the other. This proceeded well and the backlash was improving, suddenly however the table started jamming again before an acceptable backlash was reached (by acceptable I mean that I could still feel table movement by moving the table from side to side by hand) no need for a test indicator at this stage. I loosened the gib on the table and this freed things up. I then went back to adjusting the backlash thinking I'd re-adjust the table once the backlash was correct. I finally got what I thought was acceptable backlash, but didn't measure it as I decided to run a short program which moved the table from one end to the other 10 times. I ran it but even with the gib fairly slack couldn't get more than 12 IPM without starting to miss steps. By this point, I was thinking that I would settle for slower speeds if the backlash stayed acceptable. After running the program a few times I jogged the table to the middle and tried to move it by hand from side to side as before. My heart sank as there was an audible "clunk" and the table shifted by at least .1 inch. This was going nowhere. I decided to strip things down again and see if I could find any other indication of why this was not working. My first thought was to take the lead screw and saddle nut assembly to the bench to adjust it there. I took the table off and gently used the middle part of the lead screw to ease the saddle nut out of the bed. Someone mentioned recently that the factory used locktite on this, but there was no evidence of this. I started to unscrew the nut from the screw and noticed that the two grub screws where protruding from the underside of the saddle by about 0.075, "a hah" I thought, this doesn't look right. I checked the bed of the X axis and sure enough there were two matching gouges in the surface. It looked as though what was happening as I tightened the screws to take up the play in the saddle they were becoming seated on the bed before the nut closed enough to take up the proper amount of slack. Now I was sure I was on to something. I cleaned the screw and the nut and filed about 0.1 off the ends of each grub screw. I screwed the nut back onto the lead screw and adjusted it to a snug but not too tight fit and also made sure that the grub screws were not protruding from the underside. I then re-inserted the saddle nut in the bed, and attached the table. I ran a couple of quick tests and started the fine adjustments over again. I also re-adjusted the gib to an acceptable state and slowly started to increase the travel speed. To make a long story shorter, I now have .003 backlash and can traverse the table at 30 IPM. As a test I ran the program all the way up to 35 IPM without a miss. I'll happily settle at 30 however for normal usage, but it's nice to know I've got a fair amount of leeway. I also believe that I can get the backlash down further, but I also think the threads in the nut may have been partially damaged or misaligned due to the stress put on it by the over length grub screws. I believe that the main cause of the table jamming was the pressure put on the nut, and also the fact that with the screws biting into the bed the nut was frozen in position. I believe that there needs to be a pivotal movement allowable on the saddle nut to take up any slight variations between the lead screw, saddle, and table. If the grub screws were the correct length to begin with then I obviously have far too much wear on the saddle nut, I find this hard to believe, I'll run it this way for a while and see how stable things are. If there are problems I'll consider buying a new saddle nut. Cheers, Mark ------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 06:22:56 +0900 From: "Mark Thomas" Subject: Lapping the X-axis In response to my note on backlash several members have contacted me off-line asking about the lapping procedures I used on the X-axis. I have posted a summary of the procedure on my new web pages at: http://home.inter.net/mthomas These pages are very incomplete as of now, but I hope to have some time in the next couple of weeks to expand on them. Cheers, Mark ------- Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:54:51 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Lapping the X-axis Just a thought, but as the X ways are brass/anodized aluminium, it might be better to use a less aggressive abrasive than silicon carbide - in particular, one that is not likely to embed in soft metals (which silicon carbide can do). The "soft" scouring powder-type abrasives that Taig recommend for lapping the lathe beds would suit. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 07:01:54 +0900 From: "Mark Thomas" Subject: RE: Lapping the X-axis Tony, Good point, I tried one of these first and got nowhere fast. However, I'll add some comments on the page about this. I've also re-inspected the gib and ways with a 10x magnifier and don't see any evidence of grit. I think that one other point is to keep the lapping compound as wet as possible to keep it from digging in. Cheers, Mark ------- Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:45:56 -0000 From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: New D.C. motor? 90-130 V.D.C. --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "int3man" wrote: > Hi all, is anyone else planning on combining this motor on their > Mill? I'm thinking of doing just that. If someone gets one and has > a C.N.C. lathe and makes a Pulley for it plese let us know I'd be > interested in one. Anyone else? Looks like it should be a nice > variable speed combination. Anyone else with a thought? > http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp? I'm using this motor (the version without the pivoting mount) on my Taig lathe. I had a standard Taig six-step pulley bored out to fit the 17mm motor shaft, just far enough for the pulley's set screw to engage the shaft. It works very well. At the time I bought it (just over a year ago) Surplus Center also had some KB Electronics model KBWT PWM controllers. They don't seem to have these in stock now. This is an ideal controller for this motor. Maybe one could be found on eBay? Good luck! David Carter ------- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 02:13:35 -0000 From: "tungdesignstudio" Subject: Mounting my motor Under the lathe I was wondering if anyone here has mounted the motor under the lathe before. I was thinking of mounting my lathe on the table of a metal cabnet work bench ... with the motor mounted inside the cabnet shelve. A slot cut out on the table top for the belt connection, with a custom-made cover to shield me from the spinning headstock pully and belt. I thought mounting the motor out-of-sight would be a much neater looking set-up and keep the motor from getting dirty. So is this configuration do-able??? Or is there a problem with this set-up that I'm unfamilier with??? Thanks in advance.... Nicholas Tung ------- Date: 14 Mar 2003 11:24:21 +0900 From: Mark Thomas Subject: Re: Mounting my motor Under the lathe Nicholas, I used this setup previously, the only downside I found was that it was a PITA to change speeds. It did look good though. Cheers, Mark ------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:26:19 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Mounting my motor Under the lathe I don't know of anyone who has done this, but it should be completely doable. Many many larger lathes have their motors mounted this way, as well as some smaller precision lathes. Heck, even my Jet woodworking lathe is set up this way. You're right, it's a very neat setup. Seems like you could do this even if you wanted to keep things portable. Mount the lathe on top of a box. On the left side of the box is the motor. On the right side of the box is a series of drawers that could hold all the tooling for the lathe. Hmmmm! Tom ------- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:29:37 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Taig Mill Engraving 30,000+ RPM On Sat, 15 Mar 2003, int3man wrote: > I'm going to be engraving with my Taig and I have to get the > spindle speed up, as I've located a single edge cutting bit. It's been > suggested that I achieve speeds approaching 30,000+ RPM. Has anyone on > the group had any experience doing this? Will the bearings take it? > Or even like it? Nope, they'd hate it. They're not rated for much over 10,000 RPM. A while back there was a discussion about making a high speed spindle for the Taig. More on this in a sec. > Better off mounting a Dremel next to the quill? And does anyone know off > the top of their head the I.D. of the driven pulley on the Taig mill? > And how it interfaces with the Quill? I was thinking of using the D.C. > motor that has been bounced around the group lately, with its associated > power supply, the 130 VDC variable speed. The pulley is directly attached to the quill. There's a set screw that holds it in place. On the subject of high speed spindles, Foredom came out with a new handpiece that's rated for continuous duty. On the pricey side, but not much over $100 US. At one point I was thinking of using a Foredom in stock form, but I was warned off. The flex shaft really isn't meant for that kind of abuse. But now that they've got a handpiece rated for that kind of duty, I'm looking at it again. Rather than use the flex shaft, I'd be interested in either a jackshaft system, or just a big honkin' pulley mounted in its own bearings, with a connection to the Foredom handpiece (so the bearings in the handpiece don't get side-loading from the motor drive belt.) Should be good to 30,000 RPM, continuous duty. And if the pulley setup can be done right, it'd use the stock Taig motor. Does this sound workable? Tom P.S. Unfortunately I'm still not in a position to try this. Tools still crated up, house still not found. ------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 09:14:57 -0000 From: "sikn1gh7" Subject: Re: Taig Mill Engraving 30,000+ RPM Dremels are rated for up to 35,000 rpm, and you can buy them fairly cheaply. They have 1/8" collets, and your local friendly tool dealer can probably find you a 1/8" solid carbide engraving bit. I bought one for my research lab, and used it to engrave the indicator line on the stepper motor to run the CNC mill in manual mode. You can also buy them online, at MSCDirect. Look at page 556 of the MSC big book online (www.mscdirect.com) I've used an 1/8" end mill in a dremel before - at 35,000 rpm, that configuration EATS aluminum. (useful when you're in a pit trying to repair a robot without a machine shop). So, cutting torque wise, you're fine. Ultra Speed Products make a high speed, air driven air engraver. It's a bit more pricy, ($300.00ish), but it's a professional engraver, with a spindle RPM of 450,000 (yes, almost half a million RPM). See link: http://www.toolcenter.com/turbo-carver/thetool/thetool.html There is almost no torque, but it's designed to remove small amounts of material precisely. You can engrave bone, glass, exotic woods, and ivory with this setup. Terence ------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:05:34 -0500 From: Bob Kelly Subject: Re: Taig Mill Engraving 30,000+ RPM I picked up a high speed handpiece--free! Brand new, something aroound 500k rpm. Check with your dentist. This fellow bought one and didn't like the design or something and never used it. I have only used it for freehand work, but it could be mounted. REALLY hums in hard materials with diamond bits and softer materials (brass, especially) with standard metal bits. Haven't found anything that works in aluminum, however, as it just gums up, with or without lube. Very low torque, but very handy. Think about it; anyone who charges $100 to clean your teeth should give you one of these! Bob Kelly ------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 09:49:52 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Taig Mill Engraving 30,000+ RPM As others have stated, the mill spindle is not meant to run over 10K rpm. You could try a dremel, foredom handpiece, etc. You could also try a die grinder, which is essentially a big industrial dremel. You could also try one of those laminate trimmers, like a roto-zip. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:10:33 -0000 From: "johnflintus" Subject: old type mill leadscews Can anyone tell me how the leadscrew bearings are secured in the aluminium plates at the end of the ways. I have converted the x axis to computer control by adding the motor to the left of the table hence it is demountable and can be reconverted to manual use. I am now tackling the y axis and need to replace the aluminium plate with a larger one to hold the motor (I only have single ended motors and want to keep the handle and dial so am using gears to link the two.) I dont want to start stripping down the existing setup without knowing what I am doing. It seems to be set with a plastic insert, is it screwed and if so what thread. I really wish i had an exploded diagram of the mill like the excellent one of the lathe I have seen on the net. John ------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 12:58:57 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re: Old style lead screws At 04:33 PM 4/12/03 +0000, you wrote: > (I only have single ended motors and > want to keep the handle and dial so am using gears to link the two.) How are you taking the backlash up in the gears? It would seem to me that the backlash in the gears added to the backlash in the lead screw nut would be excessive. A better solution, I would think, would to use clog belts. You can get near zero backlash with them. Just a thought. Don ------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 21:11:44 -0000 From: "johnflintus" Subject: Re: Old style lead screws Don, I don't know what clog belts are in the UK? Are they what we call timing belts ie toothed rubber belts? I may be wrong on the backlash but as the leadshaft still sits in its bearings with the original backlash I am assuming that the gear backlash will be 'invisible' and can be taken care of in the software once it has been measured (and assuming it is constant). John ------- Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:48:42 -0000 From: "stevenson_engineers" Subject: Re: Old style lead screws John: Gear backlash won't be invisible, it will always be there and may not be constant all the while. Have a look in the photo's section of this group. Look under the sub folder called Taig Mill and there are some photo's there of a belt conversion that may give you some ideas. If you are in the UK these drives came from RS Components at a cost of about 10 UKP per axis, actually less than the price of a coupling. John S. ------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:27:09 -0700 From: "Andrew Werby" Subject: Re: Ball Screws on Taig? 15 Apr 2003 "Parker, Darcy " wrote: >>Has anyone documented the process and recommended supplier/part numbers for replacing the lead screws and nuts on the taig mill with ball screws?<< [Some people have attempted this, but I'm not sure anybody's had success with it. For one thing, there isn't much clearance for nuts in there. Ballscrew nuts take up more room than the bronze nuts Taig uses, and it's not easy to mount larger ones in the space provided. Precision-ground ballscrews are very expensive, but rolled ones have a certain amount of inaccuracy (typically .004" per foot) And if you need to get rid of backlash, you need preloaded nuts, not just regular ones. Also, the screws are complicated on the ends, with bearing shoulders, seats, keyways, etc. so there's a lot of machining to do if you're planning on replacing them.] >>I just received my Taig Mill last night, and this is a modification I would like to do. I see there has been discussions on ballscrews in this yahoo group, but I didn't see any follow up on whether or not it was attempted. << [Right...] >>(I am considering BSA, but haven't studied the mill well enough to make drawings/spec out the screws and nuts. I am open to any manufacturer but figured BSA would be a good first choice to look at.)<< [Take one of the slides off and study the stuation. Measure the space provided and see if you can find any anti-backlash nuts to fit. Most of them want a flange to mount against, and won't just screw down like the bronze nuts.] >>I bought some Accelus Amps from Copley and some brushless motors with integrated encoders from Torque Systems to install on the Taig. (They should be arriving in the next week.) I also have a 4 axis controller that my friend developed.<< [Really? Based on Gecko drives, or something else? ] >>I will start the CNC retrofit without the ballscrews, but would like to go with a screw that doesn't have backlash in the near future. Another reason for the ballscrew is to allow faster feeds.<< [A servo system like the one you describe will spin the screws faster than the standard steppers. Are you going to mount them in direct-drive mode, or use a timing belt and pulley reduction?] Andrew Werby www.computersculpture.com ------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:53:00 -0700 From: "JAMES BEGGEROW" Subject: Re: Re: Ball Screws on Taig? I have converted the Z axis with a 1/2-10 Supernut from BSA. It is a anti-backlash unit; the Z axis on my machine has .0005 backlash. The next project is to install 3/8-10 Supernuts to the X & Y axis as soon as I can clear the work that it is doing. The conversion of the Z axis was time consuming because of the precise machining required there is a picture of the conversion on nick's website also I converted a 7X12 mini lathe with Supernuts about 6 months ago and it has run thousands of parts and will hold .001 tolerence without any problems. It was well worth the time to do this but it isn't easy. The taig X&Y axis conversion will require a lot of precision machining but it can be done. Jim Beggerow ------- Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:10:59 -0400 From: "Parker, Darcy " Subject: RE: Re: Ball Screws on Taig? Thanks for pointing out the pictures of your modification James. I am also glad you left the message from Andrew in the reply. For some reason I didn't receive this message. This weekend I plan to take the machine apart and study it in more detail. Andrew: The 4 axis controller my friend designed and that I bought sends single wire PWM signals to 4 different servo amps that represent the velocity or torque signal input of the amp (you configure the controller for velocity or torque mode). I have read about the gecko drives, but this one is not based on them. If I understood the details on the gecko drives correctly, they're designed to make the servo look like a stepper motor. Also I don't think the gecko works with brushless motors. I will be documenting the work and will share it on the net if the project is successful. I am intending to mount the servos directly to the screw with an anti- backlash coupling. I don't want to use a pulley system or gear box (unless it was harmonic drive) because of the backlash. I won't be running them faster than 600RPM on the current screw and I sized the motors, amps and power supply to be able to drive continuously at 150 oz-in at 1500RPM. The motors can handle peak torques of 450 oz-in (and the amps/powersupply were sized to handle three peak currents.). I know many people are working with stepper motors that can handle 200 oz-in. The motors I selected output high torque for a brushless motor in a nema 23 frame. I will find out if they were a mistake (too small) shortly. Darcy ------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:35:02 -0000 From: "mrgamber" Subject: All this talk about enclosures inspired me! Check out mine I uploaded a pic of my CNC enclosure to the photos section Gambers Stuff. This pic was when I first completed the enclosure and had not yet wired up the servo's. 1/4" Polycarbonate (Lexan, well actually Hyzod). I am in the process of creating way protectors. As soon as that is done, I will upload new pic's. ------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:00:35 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: RE: RE: Taig Setup I'm designing a mill enclosure as we speak (write?) Mine won't be half as pretty, but your design did convince me to build the computer into the enclosure so it's a single self-contained unit. I'm a little short on floor space, so my monitor's going to sit on top of the unit instead of to one side as yours does. I had a question for you. It looks like you've got the long table version of the mill. At some point I'd like to upgrade mine to the longer table, so I'd like to build my enclosure to suit. About how much space do I need to leave on either side of the mill for lateral travel? Thank goodness I've been able to find my circular saw saw horses, clamps, etc. in all this unpacking. I need those tools to organize my tools! ;) Thanks, Tom ------- Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:37:38 +0900 From: "Mark Thomas" Subject: RE: RE: Taig Setup Tom: The inside dimensions of the enclosure are 47"long x 23"deep x 33"high. I also built in an removable panel on the right side to give me easy access to the X axis motor. This length gives me enough space that I can (only just) take the table off from either side if need be. The nice thing about building in the monitor is that you end up utilising what would otherwise be dead space. Good luck with the new home for your Taig. Cheers, Mark ------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:26:53 -0400 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Re: New Member Help with motor for Lathe Hi Daniel: The 1/10 HP motor is pretty weak. I replaced it with a 1/2 HP GE. Fortunately I have other lathes, so I made an adapter to extend the GE shaft, with one end turned down to fit the existing pulley bore. Huge difference, I was really concerned that I'd made a mistake getting the Taig at first as the cutting ability with the smaller motor was so limited. No problems or regrets now! Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:24:18 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: motor help 1/4 hp will really improve things over the 1/10, which is inadequate. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:46:16 -0400 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Re: New Member Help with motor for Lathe daniellamarpumphrey wrote: > Hi Stan, > Thanks. I thought the Taig lathe couldn't handle more horsepower until > today. I actually saw a treadmill for 10.00 at a local thrift store. > It has a 3/4 HP motor. Would this be too big? I was going to buy it > anyway, take the motor and leave the rest there. I was going to use it > for a potter's wheel for my wife. I may go to a 1/4 HP DC motor. Dan Hi Dan, 3/4 HP is fine, just go easy on cutting depth as the motor will no longer be the weak link in the chain. No sense breaking/burning belts. The treadmill (a cheap one) I scrounged had a non-reversable motor, with only CCW rotation. Variable speed was via variable pitch pulley rather than electronic control of motor speed. You might want to check for this before you get to making brackets, CCW only rotation means the motor can't go directly behind the lathe, it has to go behind and to the left. Bummer, I was hoping to use the one I dumpster dove on the old Atlas I'm restoring. Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:32:42 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:CNC Taig Lathe Conversion At 08:59 AM 5/13/03 +0000, you wrote: > > I am also converting my Taig Lathe to CNC. I'd be interested > > in hearing about how you are doing the conversion I picked up my Taig 9 or 10 years ago. The first thing I found was it could use more spindle to bed clearance, so I picked up the 1" height raiser set. Now it will swing a 6" piece. I do gemstone faceting so this was great, I could now face off my 6" laps when needed. The problem was that there was less than 3" of travel on the cross slide. About 2 1/4" if I remember right. The fix was simple, I picked up a length of 1/4-20 LH threaded rod from the hardware store for a new lead screw. I also had to "machine out" the groove in the saddle to allow the cross slide nut to move to the front more as well as more travel to the rear. I used the term Machine Out with tongue in cheek as I didn't have access to a machine so I cut it out with a Foredom hand piece and a cylinder burr. The only thing left was to get the cross slide dial back out of the way so I could use the new travel. I had to machine off the lead screw bearing/dial back to about 0.400" (same size as the original for clearance under the slide) and then cut a 1/4-28 thread on the outer end. I then machined an extension to the shaft with a new dial back. Wala, 3 1/2" cross slide travel. The only problem is that there is now lead screw exposed to catching chips. I've got to make some sort of skirting to eliminate this. Now, if my Taig would only thread. So here comes the CNC. To start with, I made the encoder disk from a piece of flat aluminum sheet, around 16 Ga. It is three inches in diameter. I bored the center larger than the spindle shaft so I could still set the spindle pulley fully on the shaft. It seem that the setscrew JUST catches the end of the shaft, and an additional 0.030" required for the encoder disk would put it on the edge. I made a plug to center the encoder disk while drilling the 4 #4-40 mounting screw holes. I drilled the hole about 1/3 the way from the outer edge so as not to drill into a pulley groove. I'm sorry, but I didn't get pictures of the mounting on the disk before putting the pulley back on the shaft. I used #4-40 x 1/4" flat head Allen screws for the mounting. I didn't want to use a flag to break the encoder sensor, because I didn't want something that could grab while rotating. I cut a 1/8" slot in the disk from the edge of the pulley to almost the edge of the disk. Gives me a lot of room to do the final mount on the pickup. I've taken some photos of the work so far and put it up on the group photos under my name. Lots of work left, design some sort of split nut for the lead screw. Once that is done, I can start making the mounts for the lead screw. Then comes the cross slide motor mounting. I'm toying with the idea of using a 1/2 stack motor for the cross slide. My thoughts are that other than a parting operation, you don't need a lot of torque on the screw, just move it and hold it in place. Hmm, hadn't thought about facing off work though. More thinking to do on this part. Don ------- Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:04:18 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Nick's Foredom, 4th axis Hey Nick, at one point you said you replaced the bearings in one of your Foredom handpieces. I can't remember what size they wound up being. Did you replace them with inline skate bearings, or skateboard bearings, or was it something else altogether? The reason I'm asking is I was looking for some bearings for another project, and came across some ceramic ABEC-7 inline skate bearings. The source (of course) was ebaY. I wound up getting a set for the other project. But if they fit Foredom handpieces, I'd be tempted to get a couple more boxes. The dimensions are 8mm ID, 22mm OD, and 7mm thick. I still haven't set up my Foredom handpiece as a semi-high speed spindle on my milling machine, but I may have come up with an instance where it could be useful: I've got a part I may be making several hundred of. They're small, but they require machining on three sides. One side requires a small drill, one side requires a 1/16" end mill, and one side requires both the mill and the drill. I figured I could set up the raw material on a four sided tombstone on a 4th axis. It's strictly being used in index mode, so no fancy G-code is required. It'd let me do the milling and the drilling without having to reposition the work. But it would require a number of toolchanges in order to finish all the parts. That's when I started thinking about the Foredom again. The parts are small enough, I could clamp the Foredom to the top of the mill spindle housing, putting about 3" of separation between the two spindles. The drill goes in the Foredom spindle, and the end mill goes in the Taig spindle. Changing tools is a matter of moving over by 3" and using the other spindle. I'm still not 100% keen on the idea of running a flex shaft continuously, after some of the feedback I got here. But I'm not against mounting a Foredom handpiece with a bearing upgrade on the mill spindle housing, along with a jackshaft and some extra belts. Since both tools wouldn't be cutting at the same time, they could both run off the Taig spindle motor. The jackshaft would let them run at different speeds. My guess is there's a flaw in my logic somewhere. If anyone can see it, please let me know before I wreck any tooling. Thanks, Tom ------- Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 23:16:06 -0000 From: "davideggy2" Subject: She called my bluff I told my wife I wanted to get a lathe for the miniature furniture we're starting to make. I showed her some info on the taig and started to describe all the wonderful things I could do with it. After about 30 seconds into the list, she covered her ears and said "Too technical, just do it". As soon as the hands came down, I started in again( I'm a slow learner). I asked her to keep her eyes peeled for a cheap treadmill during her yard sailing or trips to the thrift shops. Lo and behold, I have one in my van as we speak! Twenty bucks at the Salvation Army. Almost brand new. So now what? How do I tell if the motor will actually work for the lathe? I know I can just tear it out of there and give it a shot, but if it's not right, I doubt if I'd reassemble it. I'm looking for a DC motor, right? 90-120 volts? Some kind of circuit board/ power supply thingy. I don't get much exercise at work, maybe I should mount the lathe ON the treadmill and work from there. (Let's see, what spindle speed would " fat burning" equate to?) Seriously:) I just want to know what to look for before I wreck the dang thing and can't resell it. Guess I need to order the lathe too. Dave ------- Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:53:33 -0400 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: She called my bluff Hi Dave: Take off the bottom panel and see how the drive is arranged. On many "home grade" treadmills, the speed control is a cable actuated variable sheave pulley and the motor is a non reversable AC motor. Older GE treadmill motors were AC motors with a speed controller, while the last set to hit the surplus market were PM DC motors with a KBC controller. The motor data plate or label will tell you what you have without tearing the entire thing apart. Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 21:32:16 -0000 From: "martingene95030" Subject: Re: Threading > I have a need to do threading on my Taig lathe. I'm thinking of > purchasing a Frog, has anyone had experience with one, good or > bad, I'd like to know. Or is there some other method to look at. Someday I will post my design of a quickchange gearbox along with backgears for a Taig. I have it about 80% done. The key to my design is mounting a gear directly on the spindle shaft next to the bearing cartridge. That gear is what drives the leadscrew. The step pully has a shaft pressed into the outboard end and that is supported by a ball bearing. The ball bearing is mounted to a plate mounted to the tee slots on the top of the spindle. The inboard end of the pully is bored and has a bushing installed. That rides on the spindle shaft extension where the original pully was attached. Gene ------- Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 09:14:33 -0400 From: bfayettex~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Threading I got the Frog. This is an extremely clever little gadget and well worth the money. The only complaint I have is that the instructions could be better illustrated, and I had to improvise to get the sensor mounted. But once you get it set up and see how it works, you wonder why nobody thought of this before. To cut those coarse threads, though, you are need slow speeds on your lathe. The Frog will tell you if it's too fast. Brad ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a lot of info on the FROG in the "CNC General" text file and on Nick Carter's Taig site http://www.cartertools.com There is more threading info in the "Threading" text file. Tony Jeffree's book and site http://www.jeffree.co.uk/ModelEngineering.html/ tells you how to convert a Taig lathe to geared threading. And there is a commercial package at http://www.minimech.com to convert the Taig lathe fairly easily to a cog-belt gear driven threading configuration (also reviewed on Nick's site). ------- Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:12:27 -0000 From: "rarebyte2000" Subject: Re: Looking for stronger motor... I have a Bosch router in place of the taig spindle. I bought my router second hand and it came with it. I emailed Taig before I bought and they told me it was a pretty standard mod. I just stop the thing for a minute and see what the Specs are............M03 Port Cable type and serial #1218356A 1073 120V 10.0A 23,000 RPM The bracket is commercially made Gold annodized Alum. with a dovetail clamp that fitts right on the same place as the Taig Spindle. Cuts alum. very well.!!! ------- Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:17:02 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Is the cnc mill without handcranks very difficult to use? On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, solinsalon wrote: > Hi everybody, I am new to machining and I want to buy a taig cnc > mill, to build turbines for model jets and gas model engines. I'm > planning on buying a lathe too. I would like to buy a cnc with servo > drives but the system that I want doesn' allow for the use of handcranks > (direct drive), Is it very difficult to learn how to use a system like > this?, I don't know how limited I'm going to be with something like > this. for example: if I buy a turbine wheel that it was cast from > metal and I need to machine to finished it. Is it possible to do it > automatically, without the use of the handcranks? Thanks for the advice. It's quite possible to do without handcranks. But there's a learning curve. I was concerned about the same thing when I got mine. The mill I got uses steppers, and has knobs on the outboard ends of the motors. With the motor power switched off, it's possible to move them by hand. At first my fingers just ITCHED to move those things by hand. For manual milling, the knobs are about the worst thing you could possibly have. It drove me nuts. But after about a year I quit itching quite so bad. Every mill control program I've tried has some facility for manual jogging. For uncoordinated moves (like moving the bed back and forth to dial in a vise), jogging is much much easier than hand cranks. It's like having a power feed on every axis of the machine. The last time I used my knobs was about a year ago when I tore the whole thing down for a general clean and lube. Actually, I take that back... I used power feed to remove each leadscrew. The last time I used the knobs was last night to make sure my gibs were still set correctly, and that for all of about five seconds. It'll take time to get used to, but a CNC mill really is for computer control. Once you get past the learning curve and get used to the idea, a lot of the itch and need for manual control starts to go away. Tom ------- Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:17:59 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: Milling the lathe carriage > You are correct in that I am looking to mill the carriage side in > order to make a similar mod as Alan has to his lathe. Rather than removing material, why not add some? If you clamp the carriage to an angle plate, square to a surface plate (or a piece of glass, piece of marble, flat cast iron surface of tablesaw, etc.) so the part you wish to be flat is against the surface plate, build a small dam from masking tape and fill the space with plastic steel (JB weld, devcon) then you will generate a flat surface perpendicular with the crosslide. Make sense? (might not, I've been up since 5:00AM) http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html I forgot to add - make some small divots in the face you are adding the epoxy to, and rough it up, and degrease. I have repaired many machine surfaces this way, including a drill press table that looked like swiss cheese. ------- Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:30:42 -0000 From: "mmurray701" Subject: Taig arbor runout? After reading about you guys making the end mill holders from blank arbours, it makes me interested in doing the same. The problem is that I dont have a Taig Lathe. If the arbor its screwed directly onto a taig spindle and drilled/bored then obviously runout will be kept to a minimium. I'm just wondering if I'll have runout issues if I chuck blank arbours in another lathe? I guess it depends on how straight the threads are in the arbor. Will this be a problem or is it insignificant? Thanks. Mark ------- Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:44:22 +0100 From: Steve Blackmore Subject: Re: Taig arbor runout? No - it's not insignificant, but easy to fix. Make a jig . If anybody in the UK needs any please contact me off list and I'll CNC some ;) Steve Blackmore ------- Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:10:55 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: Taig arbor runout? > You mean like take a piece of 3/4-16 threaded rod, thread the arbour > onto it and chuck that? That makes sense. I cant see this causing > any problem. Thanks. It's better to make a dummy spindle from a piece of 1" steel, chuck true in the 4 jaw of the lathe, turn to 3/4"-16 with the same profile as the Taig spindle. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:31:25 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:Taig arbor runout? At 08:14 AM 6/15/03 +0000, you wrote: > The problem isthat I dont have a Taig Lathe. If the arbor its screwed > directly onto a taig spindle and drilled/bored then obviously runout will > be kept to a minimium You have a lathe, it's a vertical lathe vs a horizontal one. Set up a vise, or fixture to hold your boaring bar, and machine away. You could use a V block to hold the drill in place, and then use it to hold the boaring bar. Or you might want to use a standard Taig tool post screwed to an angle plate or large square block of metal to get the vertical tool alignment. In fact, this would be a better set up as you could adjust the angle of the tool a bit for clearance. Just remember that like the lathe, .001" on the dial is .002 on the piece diameter. Also make sure you are cutting on the correct side, turning into the tool vs away from it. Use only the X or the Y to move the tool. Center the tool using the other axis. IE Looking down on the tool, the cutting edge would be at 9:00 and facing the back of the machine. You would center the tool on the arbor using the Y axis and then do the "cross slide feed" using the X axis. The neat part of machining your arbors this way is that what ever runout you have in the threads is erased when you machine the arbor. It will always screw back to the same place every time you mount it. Look at it a custom fitted arbors. Don ------- Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:30:25 +0100 From: Steve Blackmore Subject: Re: Re: Taig arbor runout? >You mean like take a piece of 3/4-16 threaded rod, thread the arbour >onto it and chuck that? That makes sense. I cant see this causing >any problem. Thanks. Nope - make a copy of the spindle nose thread as Nick described - turn a straight section so you can re-chuck in the four jaw and clock it for future use. Make your blanks by boring and threading the 3/4 x16 first - do as many as required, (can be done in three jaw). Then chuck and clock jig true in four jaw, screw on the arbours, turn true to outside diameter and length then bore & ream etc as required. Steve Blackmore ------- Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:40:55 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Way covers for CNC taig. >--- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, Tony Jeffree wrote: > > I made way covers for mine out of heavy gauge polythene sheet - > > with care and a not-too-hot domestic iron you can fanfold the sheet > > & put in permanent creases. Approx $0.05 (for the electricity) plus > > 15 mins work ;-) The little machine shop (which caters to the 7x and asian clone mills) offers rubber like bellows. I purchased two at the NAMES show and am cutting them down to fit my sherline. They should also fit your Taig. Cost was around $6-$7 per. Jerry ------- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:06:36 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Taig Lathe On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, johnflintus wrote: > I have a Taig mill which I have converted to CNC (X and Y only at > present) which I am very pleased with and am now thinking of buying a > Taig lathe to replace my ageing Myford to be more portable and looking > towards a smaller shop if we move house. I need to bore and turn > stainless to max 1" dia and also turn brass and aluminium to 1.5". > What experience of this is out there? 1.5" brass and aluminum is no problem. 1" stainless might be a little harsh. You need to use kinda heavy feeds for stainless to keep it from work hardening. I don't know if the rigidity of the Taig would take that very well. 1" leaded free-machining steel is no problem. Stainless might be pushing it. Well, I sorta take that back. If you get a variable speed DC motor for the headstock, you might be able to get a slow enough spindle speed that you don't need the insanely heavy feeds. I've still got an AC motor on mine, so I tend to think in those terms. I'll leave this one up to the wisdom of the group. > Also has anyone converted the Taig lathe to CNC. Planning to. Planning to. But there are several people who have (and who have kindly taken pictures of their setups, which I've been using to plan my own conversion... thanks guys!) > I would like to discuss this with anyone who has been down this road. I > am awaiting a copy of Tony Jeffree's book which may answer some of these > questions. My interest is small Stirling engines. Good buy on the book, by the way. I serously could've used it when I first got my lathe. I know Tony's got the plans for his leadscrew mod on his web site, but I like having it in printed form. That's one of the things I'm planning to add to my lathe before adding steppers. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:25:53 -0000 From: "bigstubby123456789" Subject: Re: it begins -- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "boxerking1" wrote: > Hey, I too just got a Taig that I wanted to attempt to set up to do > cue repairs(tips, ferrules, etc). I've been trying to find a longer > bed, with no luck. i got mine from cuesmith.com he's got a couple of beds available. the four foot bed will run you $250 and the three foot bed was, i believe $150. the four foot has around 44 inches of carriage travel and the three foot only has 11". he mentions on his site that the three footer is really for repairs, etc. the four footer is for actual cue building. hope this helps. mark ------- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:21:34 -0000 From: "davideggy2" Subject: Re: Treadmill motors available again > I love it. Everybody that owns a Taig > should be running a treadmill motor. Its a HUGE improvment. Taig is AWESOME with a treadmill motor! I use my lathe for only two things. Making miniature furniture out of wood, and making stuff out of metal to use for turning wood. Let me elaborate. I just finished a prototype of a tall post bed. Using the stock lathe parts, I made a duplicator that uses a Foredom tool running a 3/32 end mill as the cutter ( much smoother finish and less chatter than a tool bit, even a special duplicator cutter from Vega that I use at work). I use a flat-bladed screwdriver bit for the pattern follower since it's the approximate size of the cutter. I mount the Fordom tool vertically and use the side of the bit. Best surface/least sanding, I mean filing, no grit near the lathe please. Pattern is mounted on a piece of angle mounted on back of headstock/tailstock in the t-slots. (thanks Nick) I even made a slick indexing gizmo that allows me to make spiral flutes in the bed post using a cogged belt/pulley/weight arrangement. My lathe is mounted on a board that's hinged at the tailstock end so I can rig it vertically. (Poor mans mill!) I use a table on the mill slide, and a foot operated linkage to raise and lower the table and PRESTO, plunge router. There are 14 mortices in one bed and I can do them all in just a few minutes. Doing several beds at once will minimize set up time. My drive center on the headstock is a blank arbor with a cone bored in the end and slots cut to grab the corners of the square stock. Modified "Yankee Chucker". Quick and easy. I made a rolling center that screws on the tailstock ram with both a 60* point and a 60* cone. With the cone, I don't even have to find the center of the stock! The two biggest improvements I've made to the lathe? 1) Round off the corners of those blasted square nuts! No more fighting those buggers. 2) I added a variable-resistor foot peddle to my treadmill motor drive. Being able to stop and start the lathe without changing my grip on a tool, a crank, a file or even using one hand as a steady (remember, this is only pencil-size wood), has made using this lathe an absolute pleasure! I'd use it at my day job, but the 17"-24" bowls we mass produce are a tad too big:>) Any way, that's my $.02 worth. I'd be happy to talk with other wood turners about how they make time saving mods to their lathes. The only metal I turn is to make stuff to turn wood with. Dave NOTE TO FILE: This site has disappeared in 2006/2007. ------- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:24:53 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Duplicators > I made a duplicator that uses a Foredom tool I would love to see some pictures of your set up! Is that possible? Here are some pictures of a duplicator I made for doing chess pieces from Lexan profile templates http://kj.cloudcitydigital.com/pages/taig_lathe_duplicator.html ------- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:20:16 -0400 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: My Steady Rest > Since I was taking pics of that vise I took some also of the Steady > Rest that came with my Auction Taig. It is pretty good sized. Seems > well made. The arms don't exactly come together perfect but I am sure > it will work fine. I am looking for some bearings to make it a "full > roller". Any suggestions on what size bearings to look for and where? Hi Ric, You might do better to replace the arms with hard brass. Roller rests are useful in some situations, but most folks find that they end up rolling swarf into the surface of the work as the ball bearings have very hard surfaces. Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:14:52 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: My Steady Rest > Any suggestions on what size bearings I should look for and where? Get three dead hard drives, they have tiny bearings - some old VCR's etc. also have tiny bearings as well. MSC, Reid, SmallParts and all the other usual suppliers offer small bearings as well. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:48:03 +0100 From: Steve Blackmore Subject: Re: My Steady Rest If there is an RC model shop nearby try there. 10mm OD 5mm ID is a common and very cheap size used in electric RC cars. Steve Blackmore ------- Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:50:27 -0000 From: "bbnn1949" Subject: Inexpensive Change Gears A while back someone asked the group for a source of inexpensive change gears for use in a Taig lathe screwcutting modification. Micro-Mark is now selling a set of 9 moulded change gears for use on a small lathe for $10.50. Micro-Mark item 82739. Hope this helps someone, Bob ------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:09:41 +1100 From: "Peter Homann" Subject: Update of my Taig lathe CNC conversion. I've added a page to my web site showing my Taig lathe CNC conversion (In progress). It can be found at: http://people.smartchat.net.au/~homann/TaigLathe.htm I still want to use the lathe in a manual mode. That's why I haven't committed the X-Axis yet. My original plan was to use the Sherline mount but that would mean that the stepper would be permanently attached to the cross slide leadscrew. Also the mount would make it difficult to get to the Z axis hand wheel. I'm currently favouring the following solution: The cross slide lead screw would be supported by a bearing block that is mounted to the side of the carriage. This would replace the current bush bearing. This is to remove any lateral movement and support the lead screw. The leadscrew passes through the bearings and has an aluminium timing pulley attached. This pulley has no "Sides" on it, and will have 2 handles sticking out of it. In this configuration, it can be used as a manual lathe. Just think of it as a timing pulley replacing the current hand wheel. The stepper motor would then be mounted to an aluminium plate that is mounted to the side of the carriage, and extends towards the headstock. Another timing pulley and belt connects the motor to the leadscrew. The "plate" will probably start out as a box section, say 2" x 2". The Motor would mount to the top side, with much of the remaining stock milled away except for a "top cover" to protect the timing belt. The adjustment of the belt tension would be accomplished by slots in the mounting holes where the plate attaches to the side of the carriage. To convert the x-axis to manual. The belt is slackened and removed, or the whole stepper and mounting plate is removed from the carriage. Also, The QC tool post requires a ~1/2" spacer beneath it. I plan to make a new spacer that extends the cross slide length, so that the tool post is not so close to the centre line. Also I may use it as a back tool post. Any comments are welcome. Cheers, Peter Homann mailto:Peter.Homannx~xxadacel.com Adacel Technologies Limited, 250 Bay St, BRIGHTON, 3186, AUSTRALIA http://www.adacel.com Telephone +61 (3) 8530 7777, Facsimile +61 (3) 9596 2960 Mobile 0421-601 665 ------- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:32:49 -0000 From: "Charles Hixon" Subject: Re: Update of my Taig lathe CNC conversion. If I needed both CNC and manual operation, I'd probably get another lathe (maybe off e-bay) and use which ever one I needed because the tooling setups would probably be different for each lathe too-unless I lived in a motor home and my machine shop was in the can. With two otherwise identical lathes (and one operator: myself), I would not have to stock critical spares and only need to order when a failure actually occurred. Charles Hixon ------- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:55:11 -0800 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:Update of my Taig lathe CNC conversion Hi Peter, I'm at about the same stage you are, but mine is not as clean. The enclosure over the motors is very nice. One suggestion though, before you start cutting chips, get some ventilation in there. You will cook both motors in no time without it. A small PC type fan on the back blowing out, and an air inlet with a filter on the left end should do it nicely. I've got locate one of those enclosures now. I have an additional problem on the X in that I extended the travel on it and had to move the handwheel out by a full inch. There isn't much shaft there to support any weight. I'm toying with building a Ball Bearing mount for the cross slide screw and then hopefully find a nice strong 17 size motor to drive it with a four or five to one reduction. H'mm might even use a worm wheel setup. Speed is no issue, and there is little torque required unless you are doing parting operations. You could even hinge the motor to pop the worm out of the gear for manual operations. Hummmm. Just thinking out loud, but I need to do some sketches to see if it would work. It sure would take a load off that little shaft and screw setup. Don ------- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:19:15 +1100 From: "Peter Homann" Subject: RE: Re:Update of my Taig lathe CNC conversion Hi Don, Thanks for the suggestion regarding the fan. I forgot that there will be a bit oh heat build up in the enclosure. I had another look at the X-axis last night. I'm now looking at building a ball bearing block that will extend the hand wheel/pulley out by a similar amount to yours. The bearing block will have 2 flanged 1/4" ID bearing back to back. For the stepper mount. I'm thinking of doing something weird. I have a double shaft size 23 114oz/in stepper that I plan to CUT OFF the front shaft (GASP!). The timing pulley will be mounted to the back shaft. Now for the weird bit. The mount for the stepper will be a piece of 20mm x 80mm x 3mm Aluminium angle, about 80mm long. This bracket is mounted to the front edge of the carriage. This results in the stepper sitting in front of the carriage, toward the headstock. The pulley on back shaft is now aligned with the pulley on the bearing block, ready for a belt to join the two. This set-up reduced the amount of weight sticking out of the carriage, and keeps the stepper low and relatively out of the way. Anyway I still thinking about this solution before I get out the hacksaw . Cheers, Peter Homann ------- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:55:08 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Peter's motor enclosure ventilation An approach I took was to make one whole side of my motor enclosure a small standard size furnace filter (one of those ones that slides in a slot in front of a furnace blower intake, cardboard around the edges, filter material in the middle ... easy and cheap to replace. ------- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:30:58 -0800 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:Update of my Taig lathe CNC conversion >For the stepper mount. I'm thinking of doing something weird. I have a >double shaft size 23 114oz/in stepper that I plan to CUT OFF the front >shaft (GASP!). The timing pulley will be mounted to the back shaft. Hi Peter, Hate to keep bringing up What-IF's, but it seems to me that the aluminum flanged face of the stepper is the "working end" and the bearing mount in the "Dead end" is in a plastic mounting vs a aluminum one. I don't know if they use a different bearing out there, but my guess is that they do. Granted that the cross slide isn't going to generate much demand on the motor, but over time, I would opt to have the Working end of the motor near the load. I am doing a temporary 4th axis on my mill and I am running into a problem with flange to end of shaft length on my motor. I'm using a Pacific Scientific single stack, double shaft motor, and if I use the Dead end, I can get my clog pulley on and not have the other shaft end interfere with the face plate ( I'm using a Taig headstock and Face plate) I, like you have been thinking about cutting off the Working end shaft, but I just can't bring myself to do it. At least for a temporary setup. Perhaps some out on the list has some good knowledge about the loads possible on the Dead end of the motors and would share it with us. Your setup sounds good. I would like to see some photos when you get it done, or some sketches of what you plan. I am a firm believer in plagiarism when it comes to modifying machines. Don ------- Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:38:40 +1100 From: "Peter Homann" Subject: RE: Re:Update of my Taig lathe CNC conversion Hi Don, I suspect that your comments are correct. That's why the shaft has not been cut off yet. It sounds like we are using the same motor. Another thought is to have the pulley on the working end and flip the motor 180 degs. The motor would then be mounted on stand-offs back to the original mounting plate. The motor body has bevels on the edges that should clear the stand-offs. Maybe. Keep the comments coming. Peter Homann ------- Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:38:06 +0000 From: Steve Blackmore Subject: Re: stepper motors wanted > I am currently looking for a set of three stepper motors to attach to a > Taig mill. I have gotten conflicting information on the needed size. > My cocktail napkin calculations seem to indicate that something in the > 120 oz-in range should be plenty powerful enough, but I'll defer to > actual experience on this group. You may find that under powered, thats why Taig went up to 200 oz-in and the reason I went to 240 oz-in motors with L6203 based drives. Most 200+ sized motors need more than the wimpy 2.5A that a Xylotex can supply without going pop, but you may be lucky in finding some. Don't underpower now - you'll regret it when you replace everything in the near future. Steve Blackmore ------- Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:02:45 -0800 From: "Andrew Werby" Subject: Re: Rotary Table >>> Does Taig offer a right angle mount for the rotary table (to mount it vertically) and tailstock? If not can you use the Sherline ones? <<< Taig's rotary table comes mounted vertically, on a plate that raises it up a little more than Sherline's version. They don't offer a tailstock for it, though (the lathe tailstock won't work). If you use Sherline's, you need to boost it up on a plate (I used 3/8" aluminum) and drill out the holes that mount to the T-slot (Sherline's screws are smaller - you should provide larger ones to fit the Taig). You also have to put it together a bit differently than it comes; switching the angle bracket around so the point of the dead (or optional live) center is in line with the mounting holes. [It's been a popular option with my customers, since it adds a lot of functionality for relatively little additional cost.] Andrew Werby www.computersculpture.com ------- Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:23:34 -0800 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:Upgrade crosslide >(I REALLY-REALLY-REALLYneed a mill or at least find a way to >'upgrade' the crosslide so it slides 4-5 inchs without loosing >much rigidity. Anyone have ideas how to do that?) I modified mine to get about 3 1/2" of travel. It required a new screw, screw bearing mount, and machining out the saddle some. It is not the tightest change, and I end up with chips on the screw now. It will face off a 6" disk though when using VERY light cuts. I don't think you could get 5" of travel without building another saddle, and then the narrow bed would be a problem. You can see the photos of my modification at [RUN NEXT 2 LINES TOGETHER] http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/lst?.dir=/Don+Rogers/3in ch+cross+slide&.src=gr&.view=t&BCID=taigtools Don ------- Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:46:15 +1100 From: "Peter Homann" Subject: RE: Re:Upgrade crosslide Sherline use a 1/4"x20 LHD thread on their mills and lathes. For around $15.00 you can buy a 12" or 15" Sherline leadscrew that would be perfect for this purpose. Have a look at the last photo on the link below. it shows the Sherline leadscrew and motor mount I'm going to use on my lathe. http://people.smartchat.net.au/~homann/TaigLathe.htm Cheers, Peter Homann ------- NOTE TO FILE: There are some comments on threading and taps and leadscrews in the Threading file that may be useful here. ------- Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:53:46 -0800 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re:Upgrade crosslide 12/4/03 +0000, you wrote: >how do you make a left-handed split nut? >I've searched for left-hand taps, and really haven't seen any. Enco has them in stock, and they are not much more than a RH tap. Now, if you are talking about an Acme thread tap, I've yet to find one in a LH configuration. Even the RH ones are expensive, somewhere around $40.00 for a 1/2-10. I would just use a RH thread and use a stepper to drive it. Solves a number of problems with gears and or belts. A simple encoder on the spindle and you CNC'ed. You can use TurboCNC for the driver and get any thread combination you wish, although I am lead to believe that the very coarse ones are difficult to match spindle speed and travel on. Don ------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:39:40 +0100 From: nielsx~xxjalling.dk Subject: Re: Lathe Duplicator > Has anyone ever made or heard of a duplicator for the Taig Lathe? A nice example can be seen on this link: http://www.frontiernet.net/~burtchel/ Niels NOTE TO FILE: This site has disappeared in 2006/2007. ------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 03:04:55 -0000 From: kelpasx~xxshaw.ca Subject: Ball handles I want to make some ball handles like this: http://www.ganter-griff.de/kate/10.htm I will be using steel ball bearings for the 3 balls and will make the handle. I will be using 3/16 rod threaded 10-32 on the ends to screw the balls together which will be drilled and tapped. I would like the handle part to spin or rotate on the ball and don't want a non spinable one like the pegs on the taig. Any one have any ideas on making the handle part spin but nice fitting and no end play or side to side play? Kel ------- Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:05:07 -0000 From: scitech200x~xxyahoo.com Subject: Re: Ball handles Hi Kel: I did NOT like the fixed handle on the Taig lathe carriage transverse feed wheel, and so converted the brass handle to a "spinner" -- and it works real good, and it can be lubricated if necessary. It's described on Nick Carter's website -> www.cartertools.com/picture.html#KSH If you are interested and need more details, feel free to contact me off line at scitech200_at_yahoo.com Regards, Keith ------- :-) NOTE TO FILE: I guess Kel didn't get all the answers he wanted from the taigtools group. His reposting of the question to the Sherline group is changed in that the Taig reference is omitted. Just goes to prove my point that we should look for information outside of the narrow confines of a single machine brand to gain knowledge or solve problems. The brand of tool we use is less important in the overall enjoyment of this hobby than the mastery of problems, processes, and challenges common to metalworking professionals or hobbyists everywhere :-) Good for you, Kel. ------- Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:31:08 -0500 From: "JERRY G" Subject: Re: Ball handles [sherline group posting] Kel: Make an internal groove on the handle and a matching groove on the shaft (male) part. Now slip a spring ring around the shaft, press the handle over the shaft and you have it. Regards, Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:30:32 -0000 From: "jumbo75007" Subject: Re: new screws and levers In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "yrrab57" wrote: > A lot of subscribers to this group reccomend making new levers and > screws for their lathes. The screw that locks up thre crosslide and > the one that locks the tailstock for example. Most designs seem to > feature fixing a length of studding or a bolt to some newly made hub. > The hub then often has a lever or handle projecting from it. > My question is:- How do you fix the studding or bolt to the hub? Is > it just a case of using loctite or similar or is there a special trick? I just went to the hardware store and got some 10x32 socket head bolts of a reasonable length and fitted plastic heads (also at the hardware store) that will fit on a socket head screw. If you are worried about the plastic head coming loose, just put a dot of super glue in place before putting the socket head bolt into the plastic head. Dan Fuller Carrollton, Texas ------- Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:35:27 -0500 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Re: Shopsmith power head [taigtools group] If I were going to attach a metalworking lathe to my ShopSmith, here's what I'd do: 1. buy a pair of posts to fit into the holes at either end of the ShopSmith 2. make a base for the lathe. The bottom of the base would have a couple of clamps to hold the posts I purchased in #1. The distance between posts would be such that the lathe base could be clamped in the ShopSmith tubes. 3. I'd mound the lathe on the base. 4. I'd also mount a couple of pillow blocks on the base. The blocks would have holes to fit a couple of bearings with 5/8 inch diameter interior holes. 5. I'd then make a nice 5/8 inch diameter shaft to fit the pillow blocks. One end of the shaft would a pulley and belt that mated with the lathe. The other end of the shaft would have a flat for a coupling collar. The coupling collar would be a standard ShopSmith part. 6. I'd then use ShopSmith's standard special purpose tool coupler, and treat my metalworking lathe as any other of ShopSmith's special purpose tools. Jerry BTW, this technique should work for any brand of desktop lathe or similar tool. ------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:18:56 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Home/limit/ Estop switches > From: "khalique_rehman" > Subject: Limit, Home Switches; What type? > I need to buy limit, estop and home swithes but don't know what type > of switches I sould look for. Please educate me on this issue. > Moreover, how and where do I install these swithes on my CNC Ready > Taig? TIA. Khalique HOME: My home switches are my limit switches. LIMIT: I would suggest going with the enclosed variety. They look something like the diagram below. +---+ +---|---|-----------+ | |-O N.O. (normally OPEN) | | | |-O Common | | | |-O N.C. (normally CLOSED) | | +-------------------+ the little "nub" on top being the switch plunger. There are other types which have a metal leaf spring which can be bent. I would stay away from these. I like the type above because if for some reason you miss a limit, the plunger goes all the way into the body of the switch and the table just pushes against the body and stalls. The switch isn't damaged. Also they are sealed against swarf and dirt. Note the switch has both normally OPEN and NORMALLY closed connections. Depending on the logic of your drive circuitry and software settings. You may require normally CLOSED or normally OPEN wiring (or some mixture of both). Mount the switches anywhere that is convenient and out of the way. Mount them solidly (two screws drilled and tapped) so they cannot be twisted or turned if you happen to push up against them. I think most generally they are mounted on the plates which hold the steppers. Think through the "Y" axis mounting especially. Test the switches with your software before you install them (saves having to re-locate them when you figure out you wanted "HOME" and 0,0 to be "over there". ESTOP: Big, RED, and in your face. It should kill HARDWARE POWER not software execution. ESTOP is meant to be a last resort and should SHUT DOWN THE PARTS OF THE MACHINE THAT COULD CAUSE INJURY (...those are the bits which spin around and cut things and the parts that move around and pinch things or squash things). ESTOP is just what it says, an EMERGENCY. Don't count on ESTOP saving your part. Ken J. ------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:15:43 -0000 From: "khalique_rehman" Subject: Re: Home/limit/ Estop switches Thanks Ken for your valuable advice. One more question. How do you refer to this kind of switches? I mean what are they called? What should I tell the store sales person what I am looking for? Any online source you know of? Thanks again. Khalique ------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:16:01 +0000 From: "Del Stanton" Subject: RE: Re: Home/limit/ Estop switches These switches are commonly called "microswitches" after the name of the company, Microswitch, that pioneered their design and manufacture. They are now made by a number of other companies: Alco, Cherry, E-switch come to mind. Not all microswitches are sealed against water and moisture, most are not waterproof. If you have room I would suggest that you use a microswitch with a "roller lever actuator" or "formed lever actuator" and have the moving part "side swipe" the roller or lever to actuate the switch. Then have a separate mechanical stop to stall the drive if the limit switch malfunctions. Crunching the body of the switch to stop the motion does not appeal to me, though this does make a compact installation and probably the drive will stall before the switch is damaged. Still, you could surely arrange for a sturdy switch mounting bracket so that it stops the motion, rather than the body of the switch. You are unlikely to find microswitches in local stores, but they are readily available from online electronic parts distributers. www.allelectronics.com, an electronic surplus house, has a sealed weatherproof switch with a roller lever actuator and attached wires. Go to their home page and click on "PDF Format", then on the new page move down and click on "Switches". Move to page 13 and you will find this switch listed . The price is $2.00. Cherry E-73 All Electronics Cat# SMS-179. This switch has 10 inch long wires attached. You can buy suitable switches new from www.digi-key.com On their home page click on "Catalog". Move down to "Catalog Downloads" and click on "Individual Pages". On that page click on "980". Here you will find Omron D2SW switches listed with and without actuators. Prices vary from $2.53 to $4.60, the higher priced units have 12 inch long wires already attached to the switch terminals. I suggest that you add a red LED to indicate when limit switch is actuated, or even TWO LEDs: a green LED to indicate it is NOT actuated and a red LED to indicate that it is actuated. The slight additional bother of providing these LEDs will be well worth the effort saved in troubleshooting if you have any problems connecting the limit switches into your system and later in trouble shooting any limit switch malfunctions. It is a real bother having to use an ohmmeter or test light to find out if a switch is working and what position it is in. For an Emergency Stop Switch look at page 14 of All Electronics switch pages. There a Heavy Duty Pushbutton Switch is available in red: Jumbo Pushbutton Switch, Red, Cat# PB-211 at $3.75. They suggest that these switches are used in Arcade Games. If they can withstand the treatment they get there they MUST be rugged. Del Stanton Wannabe Taig CNC Mill Owner ------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 03:10:06 -0000 From: "gatzkecues" Subject: posted some modification pics. Hello all just sharing some semi decent quality (but messy) lathe- mill pics of my my modified taig products. Any questions I can answer will be my pleasure to return for the helpfullness of this most enjoyable group. Thanks Mike ------- Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:06:29 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: CNC-ing the taig lathe On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Mike Estee wrote: > All, At first looks it seems to me that the taig lathe is not convertable > to CNC operation. Has anyone ever heard of anyone trying this? I think I > might have to with a sherline lathe if I want CNC capabilities.--mikes I haven't CNC'ed mine yet, but a number of people have. For full conversions, most people have started by adding a leadscrew to the carriage. This gives you two axes on leadscrews. Tack on motors for each axis and you're good to go. For partial conversions, the Frog replaces the carriage handwheel and uses the rack that comes with the lathe. The Frog can be set up to drive two axes at once (if you have two Frogs and the cable to connect them), but it's limited to doing things like threading and single tapers. If you're planning on doing complex curves (say chess pieces), you'd need to do a full conversion. If you're after power feed and CNC threading the Frog would be a good fit. But don't let me push you toward one lathe or the other. Both Taig and Sherline lathes can be completely converted to CNC, and both can also use the Frog. Tom ------- Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:48:55 -0500 From: Bob Kelly Subject: Re: Tablesaw? On 05/17/04, davideggy2 wrote: > Has anyone made a tablesaw using the slitting saw arbor? Dave, Yes! It works great. I use it to cut all my pen blanks. I used a 4 1/2" X 6 1/2" 1/8" aluminum table supported on two 3/4" diameter aluminum "posts" about 1 3/4" tall onto the cross slide. The posts are center drilled for #10 screws which are countersunk into the table (flathead and filed down a bit.) I made an adapter for the arbor to mount 3 3/8" diameter carbide blades for finishing saws. The kerf is about .075" but it is perfect for wood. I have stops built on for cutting to length and I can fine tune by moving the cross-slide a few thousandths (the slot for the blade is 1/8".) It is a bit awkward to set up in that you have to fit the blade to the arbor, slip it under the table, then move the cross slide until it can be threaded onto the lathe. I wouldn't want to do that with it plugged in! I can cut about 3/4" thick material. I [use] 24 tooth lifetime guaranteed carbide Oldham's. ------- Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:22:39 -0500 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: RE: Lapping gibs >From: "leon_heller" >I was just looking at the Mini Lathe web site and noticed that some >people lap the gibs. Is it worth doing the same thing with the Taig >lathe, or is this done anyway during the assembly process, when the >carriage is lapped to the bed. Leon I wouldn't use any lapping compound on the gibs. The gibs are brass (soft) and the abrasive lapping compounds will embed into the brass and constantly wear the bead away. I have had two Taig lathes and have not found they needed any lapping. As you use the lathe the gibs will break in to the lathe bed, adjust the gibs as needed. The gibs will need to be adjusted more when the lathe is new and as they approach full seat they will need less attention. Lubrication is very important of course. I know there will be individuals who will disagree with my comments but the extra wear from embedded lapping compounds causes premature wear. Bad Brad Rabid Weasel Racing Team ------- Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 11:09:12 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: RE: Lapping gibs > I know there will be individuals who will disagree with my comments but > the extra wear from embedded lapping compounds causes premature wear. This is a very valid point, and is why Taig recommends using the Bon Ami + oil mix for a lapping compound. The abrasives in Bon Ami, and in most abrasive cleansers, is friable. They break down under use and tend not to embed themselves in soft metals. I've used the Bon Ami trick to lap a couple of sliding parts together in addition to my Taig. In each case once the compound was cleaned off, the cutting action pretty much stopped. This is NOT the case with most commercial lapping compounds. They will become embedded in the aluminum and brass parts and will continue to wear the lathe bed long after use. So I'd say if you're dead set on lapping the gibs (which should happen during the lapping process on the Taig anyway), stick with a compound that will break down under use. But first check if you need to. Thoroughly clean your lathe bed and carriage, and apply marking compound to the sliding surfaces of your carriage and gib. Dykem Hi-Spot Blue would be ideal, but I've used Magic Marker wih good results. Install the carriage on the lathe bed, run it back and forth, and remove it. If it's clear that the contact patch is uniform across the gib, lapping won't improve things. If there are clear high and low spots that form a lop-sided pattern, lapping may give you a better fit. Tom ------- Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:09:26 -0000 From: "davideggy2" Subject: Now What? I bored my spindle out to 3/8". I went to put the drill chuck arbor on and found that the nut is also 3/8" dia. Hence the "now what". Help, Dave ------- Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:29:16 -0700 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: Now What? I would make an extension to the drill chuck arbor, could be as simple as taking a standard coupling nut, turning it down the 3/8" (you could also take a piece of 3/8" rod and drill and tap for the arbor thread), and extend it with a piece of stud/hacksawed bolt beyond the end of the pulley. Loctite the whole thing together with red locktite (or braze, or pin, etc.) and use a nut on the extended length to tighten it up, bearing against the end of the pulley (use a washer between the nut and pulley...) Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:30:32 EDT From: wanlikerx~xxaol.com Subject: Power feed [taigtools group] <> Mount a stepper to drive the lead screw; get a driver from MPJA, it will handle 4, 6, and 8 lead steppers at up to 35 volts, at 1.25 amps per phase. Add a small home built power supply and you will have forward, reverse, variable speed, single stepping for very fine movements. This can also be the first step on building a full CNC machine. Post any questions or email me. The controller kits are available, for about $20. For more info on steppers, see the following: The ideal stepper will have .9 to 1.8 degrees per step, as this would result in a very smooth movement. It can have 5, 6, or 8 leads and be usable. Try to find about a 150 in/ounce or larger stepper. The critical thing is the max current per phase with the driver mentioned below. There are many sources for new or used steppers. www.mpja.com Item # 8409KT Stepper Motor Driver Kit. This kit is good for 1.25 amps at 5 - 30vdc, so pretty much usable anywhere in model use. The voltage rating is not critical for the steppers as long as the current is with in the driver ratings. In other words you can use 12 volts on a 2 volt stepper, it is only the current that is critical, and then to protect the driver, or the stepper motor when it is stopped. Also this kit includes the pulse generator to control the stepper speed. White paper on Steppers: http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/ bill CCED ------- Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:27:09 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Power feed If you don't need speed control, just the reverse feature, a cordless drill makes a nice motor/gearbox combo. If you DO need speed control (drumroll, please) a cordless drill makes a nice motor/gearbox combo, but you'll need to add your own speed control circuit. Quieter gearhead DC motors can be had from Ebay. Or ask around to see who does closed loop servo systems and see if they have any servo motors with a blown encoder. Strip the encoder off and you have a small gearhead DC motor. If you've got a 20 TPI leadscrew, it won't take a lot of motor to shove a tool through a part. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:00:06 -0700 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re: Cross Slide Backlash Now long cross slide At 07:40 PM 10/21/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Super idea. A longer cross slide table would be of great use to those >of us who rely on our lathe for machining operations. Unless there's a >work around I'm unaware of, the length of the stock Taig lathe cross >slide table restricts machining on the lathe. A while back, I had a need to face off some 6" disk. the height wasn't an issue, the head and tail stock raisers fixed that, but the cross slide movement was to short. I did a down and dirty conversion (only had the lathe to work with at the time, plus a flex shaft). I ended up with a bit over 3" of cross slide travel. I posted the photos some time back in the group photos area. Look under Don Rogers and I think there is a sub folder. Basically, I made a new screw from a 1/4-20 LH all thread I got at the hardware store. I then made a new lead screw bearing giving an additional 1/2" or so clearance for the slide. I had to mill (a very rough term as I used a course bur in the flex shaft to remove the metal) out the saddle for the extra travel of the slide. The nut needs to be able to get at least 1/2" closer to the hand wheel. This modification has worked well over the last couple years. One of the side benefits was being able to mount front and a back cutting tool post to the slide. IE I could set up with a facing tool on the front tool post and a parting tool on the back. Face the stock off and then part it off, move the stock in the collet and do it over again. Made things a lot easier for some short productions runs I had. I could have never done it with the stock cross slide. Don ------- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:44:34 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: ball lead screws for cnc mill >Is it possible to replace taig cnc mill lead screws with ball screws? >If any readymade kit available even better. I like to minimize >backlash to least amount. I have looked into this a couple of times, and concluded that there is not really enough room to fit the size of ballscrew that you would like to use (preferably 3/8" - 1/2" diam), and the smaller diameters of ballscrews that would fit in the space generally aren't long enough, and if they were, would lack the necessary stiffness. The hardest problem is finding a system with small eough nuts to fit in the space available on the X/Y ways. The only approach I could think of that came close to a soulution was to mount the nuts outside the ways, but I decided that it probably wasn't worth the hassle. The current style of feed nuts that are used on the Taig CNC mills are adjustable to reduce/remove backlash; an alternative approach that I plan to try (I have the materials, just haven't acquired the supply of round tuits that I need...) is to bore out the feed nuts and cast new threads using one of the commercial graphite/moly filled epoxy preparations that are sold for repairing the ways on machinery. This can both reduce the backlash and reduce the friction of the leadscrew assembly. The other modification that is worth doing is to modify/replace the couplings that Taig supplies; the standard ones use 1/8" diam (or so) nylon spills to couple two hubs together; I know mine are worn & are a source of backlash. They will get replaced with a more effective zero-backlash coupling (probably an Oldham coupling) at some point. With those mods it should be possible to get the backlash down to sub-thou level, which ain't that bad. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:26:24 -0700 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: ball lead screws for cnc mill If I ever have time to update my pages, I have some good ones of a weight/pulley backlash cancelling system a user has prduced for his mill. Basically weights that pull the slides in one direction and cancel backlash. Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:56:56 -0000 From: "formtool1" Subject: Re: ball lead screws for cnc mill I replaced the lead screws with BSA Supernuts the thread is 3/8-10 the backlash is .001 and the lead error is .003 per foot. The conversion required extensive machining on th X,Y and Z axis components. It has worked very well for me. Jim Beggerow ------- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:19:13 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Chet R Bigerstaff" Subject: Re: RE: CNC Lathe Conversion >>> Hi Paul, I haven't finished yet but that is exactly what I'm doing with the FROG. I don't have pictures but the leadscrew and split nut I use can be found on Alan Pinkus pages under Taig Users at Nick Carter's site. I've used my new Frog for the past few days and I 've found that it does all it claims and no doubt will do things I haven't thought of yet. I plan to get another Frog for the cross slide and yet two more after that for the lathe's milling attachment and rotary table I intend to build. The rotary table is the one in Tony Jeffree's book on the Taig Lathe. I had a few questions about the Frog that were very promptly answered and I can say I'm a 110% satisfied customer. I don't see any problem at all converting to full CNC as the Frog will then serve as the drivers. It is a great way to get there. Cheers, john <<< it would be cheaper to do it with steppers and a driver board. You will also have greater versatility as well. I have a FROG on my Taig and plan on another for a rotary table but the CnC conversion of my mini lathe will be with steppers and a set of 2 Xylotek single axis boards. Don't get me wrong I love my FROG as it makes working so much easier and measuring almost nonexistent but to truly set up a mini lathe for proper operation you need a much more capable setup (does not need to be expensive...but $100-150 is all it would cost for the driver boards and steppers max) ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a lot more info about Frogs and CNC methods in a mountain of good stuff at the CNC specific Yahoo groups, or through links at Nick Carter's site. ------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:33:50 -0000 From: "keatinglaurie" Subject: Reversed tailstock for more clearance Has anyone tried reversing the Taig tailstock so you'd have more clearance for the cross slide when machining between centres? In stock form, if your toolbit is mounted in the front slot of the cross slide, the tail stock dead centre is not long enough to allow you to machine right to the RH end of the piece. If you mount the toolbit in the rear slot of the cross slide, you may run into clearance problems between the cross slide and the chuck at the LH end of the piece. I've made my own long dead centre out of 1/2" drill rod and machined and hardened a 60 degreee point on it. It works, but I don't like the overhang. I'm thinking if one modified a stock tailstock unit by reversing it, you would gain some valuable clearance for the cross slide but still have a solid support for the dead centre. I've even toyed with making my own tailstock specifically for this type of machining. Anybody tried this or other solutions?? ------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:14:06 -0600 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: RE: Reversed tailstock for more clearance Yes, I've been reversing mine for about 12 years now. B aware that there is a little more flex on long setups with the tailstock reversed. You could also modify the lever to use the tailstock in the reversed configuration all the time. Bad Brad Rabid Weasel Racing Team ------- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:06:38 -0800 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: 5/16 collet [taigtools group] > I was milling today and wanted to use the 5/16 collet. I forgot > that the 5/16 collet I have is not drilled completely thru. > Questions: > 1. Can I/should I drill this collet thru? > 2. Right now, the collet opening is slightly smaller than .3125 > (5/16"), if I can/should drill out the collet out, what size drill > should I use (or is it so obvious -5/16- I shouldn't ask)? > 3. Is there any special instructions I should follow when drilling > out a collet to make sure that it stays accurate? > Thanks, Dan Fuller Carrollton,Texas Ok, I tried two approaches. 1) chucking up the collet, drilling undersize then reaming. Not a good solution as you end up crushing the collet. You could insert extremely small shims into the slits to prevent that, but I would say that the obvious is not a good solution. 2) I chucked up a 5/16" dowel in the 4 jaw with zero runout. A 5/16"+.001 dowel would certainly have been better. [Just in case it isn't clear, I used a dowel pin, made of steel, not a wood dowel...] I then clamped the collet backwards to the dowel pin with a small hose clamp. Make sure the dowel is not bottomed out. I then drilled (centered by turning a center first) undersize and reamed to 5/16", again reaming oversize would have been better. The 5/16" dowel pin can now be pushed (with mucho force, hence my belief that doing it oversize woudl be better) through the collet all the way. You have to clear burrs, etc. It shows that the wall at the collet back when reamed to 5/16" is very thin, which is probably why Taig doesn't do them all the way through. Any other ideas? You could probably just turn off part of the back of the collet, it won't maybe seat quite as well, but close enough... Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:46:28 -0600 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: 5/16 collet You could make a jig that would hold the collet backwards on the spindle with a 5/16 pin in the center and a closer that allowed access to the end you want to open up. Basically it would resemble the spindle in reverse. This would be a lot of work but would solve your problem. You may want to start offering to open the back of other people's 5/16 collets once you have made the jig (for a fee of course). ;-) You may want to consider that once you have done this the limitation will then be in the bore of the spindle... Bad Brad Rabid Weasel Racing Team ------- Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 02:23:42 -0000 From: "Daniel Fuller" Subject: Re: 5/16 collet Thanks Nick, it worked. I have not tried milling with it, but the 5/16 end mill appears to tighten up well in the collet. If I was going to do it again, I think that I would have used a under .001 5/16" reamer just to make it tighter. But the 5/16 reamer got the job done. Thanks, Dan Fuller Carrollton, Texas ------- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:34:45 -0000 From: "timgoldstein" Subject: Re: Taig Mill Binding -- HELP!! Gas Shock In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, Larry Richter wrote: >> A gas strut opposes gravity on the lift but opposes the drive itself on the drop, to the extent that the drive was aided the weight of the drive before. << Larry, you are not making sense or matching the reality of my or others that have used a gas strut experience. If you choose the proper force you basically remove the load off the motor when it is lifting and the mass of the head does the compressing when you are dropping. The force is fairly linear and if you use ball ends with the strut there is no binding or side loading. The advantage of the strut is no increase in inertial like a pulley mounted counter weight. you will find that gas springs are getting to be a common solution on some full sized mills to overcome the lifting problem. My old Bridgeport has a built in air spring assist on the knee so the idea is not new. I would suggest trying it instead of theorizing why it does not work. Tim ------- Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:50:41 -0800 From: "Larry Richter" Subject: Re: Re: Taig Mill Binding -- HELP!! Gas Shock It's something that has to be nicely designed, yes. Where springs are used and break, good design usually evolves, too. In the Taig's case, the expense and complexity of a quill have been avoided by using a generously sized simple slide. The loads on the vertical slide are unbalanced, and the weight of the motor is included in those loads. Well, the Taig can handle it, if the slide translation system has enough power. Brawny arms do, most steppers have so far. On plunge cuts I expect the weight of the motor has actually helped some of the weaker steppers slightly. When a strut is attached, the strut travel is going to have an effect on the allowed axis travel. How and where the strut or struts are attached will have an effect on the beginning and end of whatever axis travel is allowed, as well as on just how the applied load that relieves the weight of the motor is seen by the slide and dovetail. A good approximate CG on the vertical slide of the Taig would be a mild puzzle to figure, as the motor position changes with the belt setting. But again, I expect the Taig can handle it all. At some point the actual removal of the weight of the motor from the vertical slide, by any of several means, could be good, but if you really had to go there, that also might be a good time to consider switching to a more conventional mill. ------- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:18:26 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Re: Taig Mill Binding -- HELP!! Gas Shock Tim - Beat me to the punch there. The gas spring will inevitably add a certain amount of friction to the system, but this is insignificant compared with the benefits. The one aspect of this that I haven't noticed in this thread yet is that, especially on a machine like the Taig that doesn't have a zero backlash drive system, it is not advisable to completely balance out the weight of the head, but to leave it biased in one direction or the other, so that any backlash in the drive is always taken up in the same direction. The choice of direction depends on quite what you are doing, but for most purposes, should be biased "up" I believe (i.e., the gas strut should generate an "up" force greater than the weight of the head). Regards, Tony ------- Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:39:10 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Flood Cooling from Home Depot [taigtools group] I finally got a chance to go to the hardware store. I now have flood cooling on my mill. Here's the quick version (the longer version will come after I mess something up): I got a five gallon bucket to hold the coolant reservoir. These seem to be a permanent feature of most hardware stores these days. The outdoor submersible pond pump was the most expensive part. It ran about $29. Something I learned about this from a previous experiment: If in doubt, get a bigger pump. You can always valve off the flow so your tool isn't getting power-washed, but if your pump's too small to get the coolant from the resevoir to the mill, it's the same as having no pump at all. I sprang for a 120 GPH pump. It'll put coolant about 4' above the level of the resevoir. I positioned it so the nozzle is less than 3' above the resevoir, and it works great. I used 1/4" hose to get the coolant to the nozzle. The "nozzle" is a length of 1/4" OD copper pipe from the plumbing section with the end squished down. I stuck a razor blade in the end while squishing it down, so there's about a 0.025" to 0.035" flat nozzle to squirt coolant. It makes a nice stream. The drip pan was a bit of a mess. I looked for A/C or refrigeration drip pans, but had no luck. I finally found something for mixing mortar. It was 36"x24"x6". Turns out this was slightly too small. The Y axis motor wanted to poke through the wall. So I cut a hole in one wall for the motor to poke through. The container was about $11, so I didn't feel too bad chopping into it. The sides of the drip pan extend almost to the level of the mill table. It's big enough I'm pretty sure it'll catch most of the coolant without a shower curtain. (I know I'll be proved wrong in some spectacular demonstration, but that's for a future post.) The only real gotcha was installing a drain in the drip pan. It's made for mixing mortar, not for catching coolant. I haven't run enough through it to know if I've done a good job or not. Time will tell. All in all it was a cheap system. I had a spare outlet from my SSR switch box, so it's already under software control. (BOY it's nice to be able to use M8 and M9.) If anyone's sitting on the fence regarding setting up cooling for their mill, I highly recommend it. It took less than $50 to make (less if you're not a stickler about plumbing), maybe an hour to set up, and now I don't have to stand around my mill with a squirt bottle any more. I'm pleased. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:47:22 -0000 From: "Geoff Kingma" Subject: Re: moveable y axis stops on manual mill > I made up a couple of x axis stops for my manual taig mill table. > Very simple 4-40 screws thru drill rod mounted on the side of the > mill table. Now the hard part, how do you make stops on the y > axis. It looks like some kind of clamp must be made. Is there an > easy way? Thanks, Dan Fuller Carrollton, Texas I made up a Y-axis stop system by purchasing a piece of aluminum T-slot (Lee Valley # 12K79.01). This was mounted on the right side just below the y-axis way and far enough down to clear the saddle (it needs only a few thou of clearance). A pin similar to the x-axis one was screwed vertically into the saddle and standard stops were made up out of brass scaled up from the y-axis ones to fit the T-slot using T-slot nuts (#05J21.16). I guess a picture would help. Let me know if you want me to send you one. Regards, Geoff ------- Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:59:43 -0000 From: "jdholbrook33" Subject: Turret tailstock I've had my Taig for a little over a month and have been really happy with it. Recently I've come across a need to speed up my work. I'm producing some small parts I'm going to sell and have developed some "mass" production procedures. Ie.. chuck the part in a collet and do one turning operation to it, release it and put in another etc... Using the carriage stop and a dial indicator this is working great. Where I'm getting slowed down is in drilling the holes. I've got to chuck two different drills per part not counting the center drill.In my search for solutions I stumbled across this the other day. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1877 If I could get that onto my tailstock it would shave my production time drastically! Has anyone mounted one to their taig? Options as I see them.. 1) Take off the MT2 arbor and turn it to 1/2" then affix the feed handle to it somehow. 2) Cut off the MT2 arbor short enough to drill and tap for 3/8-24. Would need some kind of lock nut arangement to be able to position the turret. 3) Make some kind of adapter that does away with the handle feed and accepts an MT2 arbor. 4) Adapt one of those Chinese lathe tailstocks to the Taig. Any and all suggestions are appreciated. Wanted to say thanks for all the great info so far. ------- Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:28:13 -0800 From: "Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter" Subject: Re: Turret tailstock It seems a little heavy for the Taig, but making a new arbor for it would probably be the best bed, copying the Taig ram, or an you say bushing the hole with a 3/8"-24 thread. Better yet you could make your own turret tailstock attachment from aluminum, that way you can bore the holes while it is mounted guaranteeing concentricity to the lathe. Look at the picture at the bottom of this page: http://www.lathes.co.uk/boley/page4.html It would be very easy to make one like this. I know I have plans floating around for one somewhere, I'll see if I come across it. You could always buy that turret and just copy the design. I have an Atlas turret tailstock and it is handy but tends to droop when loaded up with a lot of tooling. I forgot to add, you can also make a flat turret that mounts on the crosslide, that way you can drill deeper than the 1" of the tailstock. Check out our homepage www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:07:10 +0000 From: James Dickie Subject: Interesting way to power a Taig lathe Here is an interesting way to power your Taig lathe. Basically, buy a cheap import pillar drill. Strip out the motor (1/3 hp) and pulleys. Attach same to Taig. In my neck of the woods, one of these drills costs around 30 notes. A new motor and pulleys from Peatol/Taig will cost double that. I suspect the pulleys will have to be bushed down to 5/8" though. James ------- Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 16:32:35 -0600 From: Gene Furr Subject: Interesting way to power a Taig lathe The best part of that is what you have left, makes one great tapping machine. Just move the handles to the top spindle and take the spring out. I cut the handles from the gear and bored a hole that fit the spindle in place of the pulley. Put the gear back in the frame, removing the spring so the spindle can fall down. The little knob that was used to hold the belt tight is put in place of the Allen screw on the right side to hole the spindle up when you are getting ready to put your tap in. Never broke a tap or started one out of alignment since I fixed it. I didn't use the motor and pulleys on my Taig lathe; it was already set up. Gene ------- Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 02:10:46 -0000 From: "Robin S." Subject: Re: Interesting way to power a Taig lathe The only issue is that the motor is probably not of the quality available from Taig. I believe some of these motors have bushings at either the spindle end, or both ends. Not really a big deal if you're not going to use your machine too often. Regards, Robin ------- NOTE TO FILE: The lifespan of motors on some of the asian machines has been a sometime issue. Often small items like the drill press here can be obtained from vendors who have a house warranty policy that should keep you okay for at least a year. Alternatively, used motors are typically available locally for 5 to 10 dollars at yard sales and surplus/recycle centres, and often are domestic motors of high quality. Just don't get carried away and use a monster motor on your little machine because it was a "bargain." Use a motor in the recommended power range for your machine. ------- Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 05:58:02 -0000 From: "Jim Knighton" Subject: Re: rig taig lathe for cnc --- In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "juangelt"wrote: > next question is has anyone done the conversion ? > i've got parts and have to make a couple to cnc my new taig first > thing before ever using it, so any tips would be welcome. Yes, my Taig lathe is fully CNC. I used Sherline leadscrews and steppers as these were what I had on hand. Photos are on Nick Carter's web site if you're interested. It (CNC) works great. The lathe proper still has a few open issues, but nothing that affects CNC. Initial testing was with a Sherline linear motion controllers and the machine is quite usable with these units. I've also run the lathe with Sherline's 8760 drive while experimenting with both TurboCNC and Mach2/3. The Sherline drive is really for my mills and is a bit awkward for the lathe. It works fine, however. It will be replaced with a couple of Geckos sometime later this year. Contact me off-forum if you would like to discuss this project. Regards, Jim ------- NOTE TO FILE: There is a discussion in the Taig Lathe Tips file dated 09 Aug 2005 "Subject: New Taig Tailstock using Sherline and Taig Parts" that will be of interest. It is retained in that file as it relates to earlier headstock/tailstock discussions there. ------- Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 19:15:45 -0000 From: "Jim Lewis" Subject: Taig mods pix's Hi All: After 10 years of using the Taig I finally put up a page with pix of my various mods: * unified spindle grip/pulley/indexer * quick-change everything * variable speed motor * low-cost DRO * winding feeder See: http://www.emachineshop.com/projects/taig-lathe.htm Jim eMachineShop.com ------- Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:31:53 -0700 From: Alan Rothenbush Subject: MT1 mount So, I have enough Sherline accessories around that the idea of an MT1 spindle in my Taig mill is an attractive one. I've considered a. machining my own spindle to fit the Taig headstock b. buying a Sherline spindle (as they're MUCH better machinists than I) and adapting that c. mounting an entire Sherline headstock (maybe the best idea, but also the most expensive) But this weekend, I had another long look at things and a fourth option came to mind; a Taig to MT1 adaptor. That is, a part a LITTLE bit like the stock collet nut, only an inch or so longer and with an MT1 taper in that 1" extension. Answers and comments gratefully appreciated. Alan Rothenbush Burnaby, B.C., Canada ------- Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:39:31 -0500 From: David Robertson Subject: Re: MT1 mount Alan: I haven't done it. But I have done something similar. I made a WW collet chuck by boring out and putting the appropriate taper on a blank arbor. It works pretty good, but, as with all screw on devices, repeatability and resultant concentricity can be an issue. In my experience with the WW attachment, it is fairly repeatable... usually within 1 thou. I don't know if this is close enough for your purposes or not. David ------- Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:08:03 -0500 From: "Bad Brad" Subject: Re: MT1 mount Yes, bore a MT-1 in the Taig spindle. Actually you can have more than one shot. the taper doesn't have to be started so that the out board end is at the largest point (bottoming out on the mandrel top). You want to make the taper so that there is enough material to clean it up in the future if needed. If you mount one of Sherline's #1 tapers* in the four jaw and indicate on it once it runs true in the spindle while using the compound you can get pretty darn near the taper you need to bore the spindle. I would bore the spindle in the lathe it will be used on. I have made a few critical tapers this way and they have worked fine and had good repeatability. FBA p.s. * No, not the spindle, the drill chuck arbor or anything else with a MT-1 on it... ------- Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:18:10 -0800 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re: making a morse taper tailstock >>I have done simple reaming in the past and I presume I will drill out the 1/2 inch round in the tailstock to approximate the taper -- and then finish with the reamer. Words of advise?? << Several. First, the setup. Chuck your 1/2" stock in a 4 jaw if you have one. The 3 jaw with aluminum jaws will not hold the stock for reaming. Also, with the 4 jaw, you can center the stock. Make sure it is very accurately centered and running true along the length. Your first drilling will be full length of the 1/2" stock, and some what smaller than the minor ID of your tooling. This is for a knock out bar. You will need someway to remove the tooling. A standard tailstock uses the feed screw to force out the tool when the feed is fully retracted. Depending on the design you have in mind, you will need to make a feed screw arrangement, or provide a whole so that you can use a drill rod as a punch to knock the tooling out of the taper. You don't want a blind hole here. Now, check your tooling with the MT and measure the major diameter of the tool taper. You do not want to ream the new spindle quite as large as your "smallest" Major diameter. Once you have found that diameter, measure the reamer and mark it with a Sharpie at this point. Remember, you are only measuring with one edge of your micrometer due to the taper, so take that into consideration when marking the reamer. Also, be careful that you do not damage the flutes with the micrometer. A taper reamer will over cut a hole, so you want to make sure that you don't over cut. I suggest that you drill a whole slightly deeper than the length from the minor end of the reamer to your depth mark. As a reamer can over cut, the minor end is usually way under, so measure the minor diameter on some of the tooling and use a drill a few thousands larger for your pilot hole. Make sure you use a center drill to start the holes, and then make sure your drill is properly sharpened so it doesn't introduce a wobble to the hole. The reamer will follow the hole and any wobble in the hole will be translated to the reamed MT. You only drill one hole for the reamer. Now when it comes time to ream, you will chuck up your reamer, or support it with a live center, and HAND TURN the chuck while feeding the reamer into the hole. Lots of lube, and a light feed pressure. To much feed pressure and the reamer will bind. If this happens, DO NOT BACK UP THE REAMER. If you can't pull it straight back to clear the jam, use your drill rod through the headstock and tap the reamer back out like it was a tool. Ream the hole to slightly shy of the depth. Clean it out and check your tooling. if it fits almost into the hole, you are deep enough. A trick for measuring the length of the cut. Drill two holes an inch apart in a scrap of aluminum sheet. 14 gage is thick enough. Ream the first hole so the largest Minor end of your tooling just fits into the hole. Now ream the other so the smallest Major end of the tooling just fits. These are the diameters you want to end up with in your tail stock. You now have a tool gage. You can drill your hole with a drill that fits in this small end gage hole. You slide the large end on the reamer and mark the small side of the reamer for your depth of ream mark. Measure from this for the length of the hole. This is a lot easier than measuring tapers with a micrometer. And actually it is a more accurate measurement for a final fit. Don ------- Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 07:46:31 -0800 From: Don Rogers Subject: Re: [RE: Digest Number 1975- 1MT tail Stock >Many thanks for your taking the time and effort to provide >a high order of detail and many excellent suggestions. Ken, you are welcome. This wasn't all off the top of my head. I've been considering going down that route for a while. I've been considering setting up an adjustable square shank in place of the top end of the current tailstock. Make a V slot and a clamp. Then make a square tailstock upper with a hand crank. This would allow you to extend the tailstock upper toward the head stock IE longer reach. For heavy or longer work pull it back. I envision about 1.5" of travel in the body in addition to about 1.5" in the plunger. Just some thoughts. I've always been bothered with the current tailstock. Don ------- Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 18:51:58 -0000 From: "gehaddad" Subject: Re: Locking lathe spindle without an indexer? "harvey19432003" wrote: >You can use jacks (bolts, sticks etc.) under the chuck jaws. >Simple, if not too versatile. Harvey C. That is an easy way to lock the spindle, but's it's not easily adjustable. I made myself a simple protractor indexer that fits into the pulley hole, but I have no way to lock certain positions/angles for machining. What would be the easiest way to grab the pulley wheels and hold them? Any other suggestions? George ------- Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:57:13 -0800 From: Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein Subject: Re: Re: Locking lathe spindle without an indexer? I'd just make a curved shoe that bears against the flat part on the pulley and swivels on a piece attached to the back t-slot - spring load it, or something...The sort of brake they used on old time horse-drawn wagons. Or mount a thin gear and a worm that can be swung into or out of mesh. You can tap into the spindle cartridge spacer and put a screw that bears against the spindle (with a brass tip) but that would slip under moderate force. ------- Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:49:31 -0000 From: "gehaddad" Subject: Re: Locking lathe spindle without an indexer? Nick, I like the brake shoe idea. A simple friction brake. But, what material would make sense to use? What could I coat the brake with-- in order to create a non-slip surface? I've seen jar openers with a rubbery material that is meant to grab a jar cap. I wonder if that would work? I don't plan on any machining that would exert large torque forces on the spindle, so a good non-slip fit would be ideal. George ------- Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:58:09 -0800 From: Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein Subject: Re: Re: Locking lathe spindle without an indexer? Glue some sandpaper or gasket paper to the surface, or some rubber sheeting (heck a piece of rubber band would work, glue with contact cement). Turn the radius if the shoe to the diameter of the pulley area plus the thickness of the grippy material. Plain metal to metal will work if the contact area is large enough. Time to get out your pencil and machinery's handbook and do some friction computations! ------- Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:48:10 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Locking lathe spindle without an indexer? >What's the easiast way to lock the spindle on a Taig lathe? I don't >have an indexer and was hoping to be able to lock the spindle at >whatever position desired. For my indexer designed around a Taig headstock I designed a split clamp brake to fit at the back of the headstock - see: http://www.jeffree.co.uk/Pages/divheadmk2.html However, it wouldn't fit with the normal Taig pulley in place, and would "rub" continually while you were using it as a lathe. If you already have an indexing plate fitted to the pulley, some kind of caliper brake (like a car disc brake) would seem like the way to go, design it so it can be flipped out of the way when not in use. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 22:32:27 -0000 From: "Adrian" Subject: Re: Locking lathe spindle without an indexer? George: Don't know what you are trying to do but a while back I had to file a (very small) flat on quite a few parts so I built a little bracket that clamped in the t-slots on top, held one end of a cut belt (yes.. i sacrificed my spare at the time) securely under the plate, just above the pulley, that belt ran all the way around on the large pulley groove, on the other side it came up on top of the plate where i wrapped and wired the other end to a cabinet latch mounted on top. The kind that pull and snap down tight with the metal loop that goes around the catch on the door of a cabinet. You get the idea, it would lock my headstock in place quite nicely but wouldn't hold up against any strong twisting force. I'm sure you could come up with a better way to tighten it but I wanted to be able to snap it tight, file this tiny clearance flat and then release it with enough slack that I could spin it back up to part off, as quickly as possible. I didn't care what position it was in and only needed a moderate locking force so there was no need for a dividing head... besides.. that would have taken a LOT longer to build than the 30 minutes I spent throwing that thing together. wish i had taken pictures. If you do the brake shoe idea, maybe use an old belt as your lining? I'm thinking a combination of the two ideas would work pretty well for a more permanent type fixture. Adrian ------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:53:28 -0800 From: Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein Subject: New Article on www.cartertools.com Keith Brooke was kind enough to write an article on his thread cutting attachment for the Taig Lathe - all the hard work was done so I threw it up on the site quickly (apologies to those waiting for their pictures to go up, this took a lot less work than normal for me to publish.) http://www.cartertools.com/brooketh.html Enjoy! See our homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html -------- Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:12:35 -0000 From: "campgems" Subject: Re: Reaming spindle bore out to .375" Ken Jenkins wrote: > I've done two [lathes] now with no problem. Try to drill as close > as possible, then ream with LOTS of lubricant. Actually, you can go slightly over 3/8", not much but enough to get woring clearance on 3/8" drill rod. The down side to this is that you need to modify the drill arbor nut because the stock one is "3/8" OD and will now slip though the spindle. I use an extension on the threads and then a thumb nut with a tapered face to center the threads on the pulley hole. Don -------- Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:31:08 -0000 From: "alzark1" Subject: Re: Reaming spindle bore out to .375" Mine is bored out to 0.597". (I make bamboo fly rods.) The down side is you loose the cone in the spindle nose so you can't use collets, or anything else that seats in the cone, and you lose the smallest step on the spindle pulley. When I can afford it (justify it to my wife) I'll order a stock spindle for other purposes and change them as needed. Most of my rods are small enough to go through the stock spindle anyway. Neil Savage ------- Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:33:14 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Re: High Speed Spindle >> Yes, as an aftermarket option. Paul Jones sells a >> high speed spindle for the Taig and Sherline tools: >> http://www.cnconabudget.com/PaulJonesPCBSpindle.html >> It'll do 30k RPM. On 6 Feb 2006, Don Rogers wrote: > His site said he isn't taking any more orders and is over a year > behind on the ones he has taken. I would guess it would be wise > to go for another option. DOH! Thanks, Don. I don't read fine print. One other option he shows on his site is to take a Foredom handpiece, remove the endbell where the flex shaft goes in, and put a pulley on the shaft. Attach a DC motor with a belt drive, and you have a high speed spindle with easily replaced bearings (that is to say sticking ABEC7 bearings in it to get higher speed ratings is straightforward) and readily available tooling. So far I'm still using my Foredom handpieces with the Foredom motor and flex shaft, but I don't do continuous work with it. Doing the mods he lists on his site wouldn't be too heinous a job. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 09:02:34 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: High Speed Spindle / Laminate trimmer replacing Taig head Here's my solution to a high speed spindle. I mounted a Dewalt laminate trimmer in place of the head. http://kj.cloudcitydigital.com/pages/taig_mill_d660mount.html ------- NOTE TO FILE: The next thread does not neatly fit anywhere else in my site files comparing mills to mills, or lathes to lathes, but is of interest to prospective Taig users, so I put it here where hopefully someone will read it :-? ------- Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 03:51:39 -0000 From: "tyeetom1" Subject: mill or lathe?? [taigtools] I am planning to purchase a Taig mill or lathe as a home (Apartment) "desktop" machine and have some questions as to which to choose. I took several machining courses 30 years ago in a mechanical technology program - since then I have not done any machining. Now that I am retired I would like to be able to do odd machining jobs and projects at home for example I could turn or machine repair parts for my wheelchair when they are needed or too expensive as replacements. Typical project sizes would include: turning Al bar stock 1" dia by up to 8" long, also Al bar stock 2" dia 5" long and brass tubing up to 2-1/2" dia 6" long, also milling slots in brass flat bar 3"x 1/2"x1". Also would hope the machine would serve as a small drill "press" using drills up to 1/2 in brass al or mild steel. I have searched your message archives and could not find references to mill used as a "lathe". I am leaning toward the Taig Mill as the best choice as I think it is most versatile and the spinning tool less risky for me with my limited mobility than the spinning heavy chuck and work piece in a lathe. Also the mill should be - - able to handle bigger milling jobs - and I think with the spindle set for horizontal milling to serve as a lathe - equipped with a 3 or 4 jaw chuck or other face plate. Would such a setup be practical?? require special height tool post mounted on the x-axis mill table? and for turning between centers use a modified tail stock? Would the standard tail stock need much modification for between centre work? could the mill head be remounted to a taig lathe bed? a la sherline? Please let me know if my ideas sound workable. thanks tom parker ------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:32:31 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: mill or lathe?? It's tough to say "buy one over the other". Ideally, get both. Here's why: The tooling for the lathe fits the mill and vice-versa. So adding a lathe to a sohp with a mill is a matter of buying the lathe and some chucks, not necessarily buying a complete set of tooling (drill chuck arbor, drill chucks, etc.) The lathe is pretty inexpensive once you have some of the tooling purchased for the mill. The lathe can be used to make tooling for the mill, like endmill holders. This CAN be done on the mill, but some of the operations that are straightforward on the lathe are a little cumbersome on the mill. You CAN use the mill as a lathe. I've done it numerous times. My mill is currently set up as a vertical face lathe, as a matter of fact. But there's no tailstock support on the mill unless you make it yourself, so turning long pieces would again be fairly cumbersome. To get around this I've mounted my lathe on the mill table, and put tooling on the vertical slide on the Z column. This works well for stuff that needs tailstock support, but it requires having both tools. The upshot of all this is that I wouldn't consider one over the other. They work well hand-in-hand. By the same token, I'd also consider a bench grinder and a drill press as other tools that work well with the lathe and mill. And the upshot of all THAT is that no matter what tooling you have, there's always something else out there that'd be nice to have as well (a Foredom, a shaper, a surface plate, a shaper, a...) Tools are addictive. So no matter what you wind up deciding, at some point you might pick up the other one anyway. Sorry for utterly not answering your question. I'm a wishy-washy sort of guy. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:41:06 -0500 From: Rich Crook Subject: Re: Re: mill or lathe?? Instead of a 2nd headstock, I'd recommend getting a Sherline rotary table & rotary table tail stock. It'll be a lot simpler to mount to the mill table, and allows for easily controlling the rotation of the part (with a 2nd headstock, how would you keep the part from spinning freely?) A rotary table for the mill is a very versatile addition, as well. Rich ------- Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:19:42 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Mill or Lathe? If I had to choose one I would chose the mill. The reasoning being "work envelope". You can mill on the lathe BUT the work envelope for the milling you will be able to do on the lathe will be very small. You would need to purchase the milling table attachment for the lathe and it's holding and movement and capacity is very limited. In addition the mill is more suited to "drill press" work than the lathe, although I would probably try to purchase a small bench drill press instead. They make some very nice, inexpensive, small drill presses now. Here's one for $60. http://www.grizzly.com/products/G9986 Having said that, configuring the mill to work well as a lathe is a little trickier in terms of the "setup", but the area you can turn in (if we are considering the length of the X table) gives you more turning space and mills are by nature more versatile in terms of the work you can do. On the other hand. Most of the things you (Tom Parker) described in your posting are cylindrical turning projects which are more suited to the lathe. Based on the items you listed I think you might do best by getting the lathe and a small drill press first and add the mill later. Also you asked if the mill head would fit on the lathe. The answer is yes. They are essentially the same BUT trying to switch the head back and forth between a mill and lathe would soon get to be a real hassle in practical terms especially because of motor mounting issues. Not really workable and you wouldn't really be saving a lot of money because the mill/lathe head is not that expensive. > Tom benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com writes > It's tough to say "buy one over the other". Ideally, get both. I agree with what Tom says. Get both if you can and they work well together because so much of the tooling, etc. is interchangeable between the two. And I also agree that "tools" are kind of addictive and, thus far, I have not found a remedy for this addiction... So I just keep buying more :-) The nice thing about the Taig equipment and accessories is that they are very reasonably priced (IMHO) for the quality you get. ------- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:44:13 -0800 From: "Greg McFadden" Subject: Re: Re: mill or lathe?? Just to wet your apetite, here is the setup I have with the mill. http://thetriphome.blogspot.com/2006/03/replacem ent-enclosure-pictures.html There are other pictures of the old flood cooling setup along with a few things that I have made on it(worked great, although I needed more space). Greg ------- Re: Is it a mill? Is it a lathe?? Posted by: "benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com" benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Date: Mon Jun 5, 2006 5:54 pm (PDT) On Tue, 30 May 2006, Tony Jeffree wrote: > Feast your eyes on this - > http://members.shaw.ca/mryankey/taigmill.html > Watch the bushing video. That's pretty much how I've been using my mill for the last several months, but on a much much smaller scale. I'm dragging my feet on the construction article for this, but here's the start of a web page for a toolbar I made for my mill: http://vix.dyndns.org/~benedict/toolbar/index.html The construction article will be posted on Nick's site. (I shouldn't drag my feet... it's a pretty straightforward idea.) Just so you don't get the wrong idea from the article, which has no photos and only Rhino renderings, I did actually make one of these and am currently using it. Works like a charm. Nick made a suggestion I haven't been able to act on yet: Not sure it'll make sense until you look at the renderings, but another toolbar with V-grooves for drills, reamers, etc. would also be useful. I swear I'll take pictures and put them up on that site soon. Tom ------- Split nut design for taig lathe [taigtools] Posted by: "Vlad Krupin" vlad.cncx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Sep 6, 2006 10:05 pm (PDT) Hi group: A few weeks ago I sought your collective wisdom to help me come up with a split nut design for my lathe (my old split nut... well, it split, literally, in a way that makes it unusable :), so I was getting ideas for a new and improved design). Thanks for your feedback and ideas. I incorporated them in my new design which I have now used for a number of hours, and seem to like it. It's a little crude-looking, but seems to work well, so I figured I'd share what I have done with you in case somebody wants to attempt a similar project. http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/archives/77-Split nut-for-taig-lathe,-revision-2.html Vlad http://www.krupin.net/serendipity/index.php?/categories/2-metalworking ------- Re: High Speed Spindle Attachment for Taig [taigtools] Posted by: "Rich Crook" richcrook9418x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:55 pm (PDT) >I need to cut some PCB material (FR4 & copper) and I do a lot of acrylics >work and I need to run the cutter at 20,000 to 25,000 RPM. >I am toying with the idea of making something similar to the Proxxon >professional rotary tool holder offered for the Asian mills offered by >LittleMachineShip.com: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.p hp?ProductID=2892>http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/prod uct_view.php?ProductID=2892 >The tool has the power and the speed for my application and the price is >reasonable. I have to figure out where a good place for such an attachment >would be. Also, I'll probably have to dismount the motor when I add this >because I am worried that the extra weight might bind the Z axis motor. >I wanted to run this by the group to seek your opinion whether this is a >good idea or there are better options. Please share your thoughts on where >you think the best place for mounting a fixture for holding this tool. >Jason Ideal setup: get a Taig headstock riser block (lathe accessory) & make a clamping setup (similar to that shown on the LMS page) & bolt it to the riser block. Then you can simply remove the Taig headstock & motor assembly, & put on the high-speed motor/spindle unit. Quick & easy change-over, & no extra weight to bog down the Z axis drive. For running small high-speed cutters, you want to keep things as stiff & rigid as possible (machine flex & headstock vibration will kill tiny fragile cutters.) This means avoiding hanging added weight off the existing headstock with added joints, or increasing the length of the "arm" from the table to the cutter-head. I've seen mention of a similar setup for a DeWalt hand-held electric die grinder, but can't remember where, exactly. Rich ------- Re: Ball handles ? [taigtools] Posted by: "John Bentley" Johnx~xxJRBentley.com theengineman Date: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:45 pm ((PST)) Sorry for being asleep at the switch - I check this group almost every day, but I have been fighting with a home entertainment device (DVR) all day and just noticed now that my ball handles were under discussion. It is an appropriate time - I have just finished outfitting a brand new Taig with ball handles (among other things) to replace my original lathe. ('not to worry, my 20-year-old old Taig looks & works like new - I just get bored easily!) I find most ball bearings are easy to drill in the Taig lathe (after softening), by placing them firmly in the soft jaws of the 3 jaw chuck. The balls need to be heated, then cooled VERY slowly. A center drill is needed to start the hole, then a standard HSS drill bit at about 500 rpm will do the job - with a satisfying sound. If any difficulty is encountered drilling the hole, I would suggest taking that ball and its siblings far from your workshop, so they don't get mixed up with units made of a more friendly material. I recently tried to drill a ball from the front wheel bearing from a Toyota Prius hybrid and it was harder than my drill point, which soon became as round as the ball. In the end, I just turned a ball freehand from 12L14 on the Taig and saved myself well over three cents worth of propane. The overall job was safer and took me far less time than using bearing balls. The following is somewhat unscientific: I use a standard propane torch, keeping the ball out of any stray breezes and set it on a firebrick (in a depression, so it won't roll). After the ball is screaming yellow hot, I COOL it with the torch (turned down to a tiny flame) then back the torch away, very slowly over a couple of minutes. When the ball turns black, I go have a coffee and let it cool naturally. Please remember that red hot balls are just as round as cold ones and can be downright dangerous if they roll. If you are silver soldering, heed Martin's warning about projectiles! I do it, but I heat the ball very slowly until the flux is completly free of moisture and has melted. I make the shaft fit a tiny bit loose, so there is a gas escape route during the heating. I also hold a large screwdriver over the ball to keep it from going into orbit. Very low flame is the key until the moisture is driven out. Apologies for being so long winded... Best of luck, John ------- Re: Ball handles ? Posted by: "John Bentley" Johnx~xxJRBentley.com theengineman Date: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:10 pm ((PST)) > Thanks for your advice John. I tried this afternoon and it worked > perfect. Think I will use glue to fix the ball (and glases in case > the glue splatters when I force the ball on to the rod) instead of > the silver soldering (sounded kind of dangerous). What diameter is the > big ball you use on the end of the lever that moves the drill > chuck? and what diameter are the other balls you are using? I hope > it's ok that I ask this as your lathe/webpage was the reason I got > the Taig, so I'm trying to make mine look as nice as yours:) Glad the balls worked! My tailstock lever ball is 3/4". Both the balls on the tailstock and the toolpost ball are 1/2". The lever on the carriage for engaging the leadscrew half-nut is 7/16". The locating pin for the 60-hole dividing plate on the headstock has a 3/8" ball. On the new lathe, the leadscrew clutch has a 1/2" ball and I decided to use some knurled knobs in three locations: I used 5/8" diameter 12L14 knurled knobs on the dividing plate pin and replaced the thumbscrew at the back of the carriage with the same (with a spring to keep it from working loose under vibration). This is MUCH easier to operate than the old flat thumbscrew. To make room for a leadscrew dog clutch that was added, I tapped a new hole in the headstock for the carriage stop rod locking thumbscrew, located on top of the T-slot. That screw was replaced with a knurled version 5/16"D X 9/16" in height. So far, this also seems to be an improvement. In case this late night description is not clear, I have thrown some close up pictures of the new Taig (without captions) on a page for you at: http://lathes.jrbentley.com It will probably fade away in a few days. Best regards, John ------- Site update cartertools.com Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:24 pm ((PDT)) I added new pics from Brian Bosch (an interesting Taig lathe leadscrew mod) and Graham Collins (mod to the taig milling vise), a photo essay by Greg Miller showing disassembly of the Taig Mill leadscrew bearing block, some pics of the new leadscrew assembly and the 1110ER and 1224ER. Enjoy! www.cartertools.com ------- Taig and rolled ball screws [taigtools] Posted by: "Jim Beggerow" jte65jimx~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Apr 3, 2007 10:46 pm ((PDT)) I converted my Taig to anti backlash ball screws about 6 months ago and they are working very well backlash is 0. I used 3/8-10 rolled ball screws, they cost 600.00 to convert and extensive machining on the X and Y axis to clear the ball nuts. It was well worth it; I use the machine for second operation work, the plus side is the machine is more rigid. I have a super-tech motor controller micro stepping at 3200 steps per rev and is it smooth running. The conversion has paid for its self 3 times over. I have pictures of the machined parts check at Carter tools. If you need any more information don't hesitate to contact me. Jim Beggerow ------- NOTE TO FILE: A discussion of benchtop design for multiple bench tools came up in the Sherline group on April 13, 2007, but many of the ideas and health precautions are applicable to other small metalworking or woodworking tools. Some good and innovative tips. The discussion is in the file here called Workshop Tips for everyone to find. ------- Re: Lathe [taigtools] Posted by: "Collins, Graham" collingx~xxnavcanada.ca Date: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:48 am ((PDT)) >How did you like your Sherline motor modification? Did it work well? Jim As an aside from your question to Martin re the Sherline motor on the Taig Lathe; I seriously considered doing the same thing for my Taig lathe. I was becoming more and more frustrated trying to turn larger items and items made of steel. The stock Taig pulley configuration would just not allow me to run at slow enough speeds. Same applies to knurling and parting off. I priced out the options: Sherline motor versus tread mill (or similar) motor and controller. I took the non Sherline option and in the end everything worked out well. However, if I was to do it again I would opt for the Sherline motor and controller. Cost wise, I didn't save anything although you could probably put together a tread mill motor and controller for much less than I - I tend to over engineer. Performance wise, my tread mill motor and controller works no better than the Sherline motor and controller. Time wise, I spent much time putting bits and pieces together to make a working system whereas the Sherline motor and controller would have required 1/4 the amount of work. However you slice it, the Taig lathe with a variable speed DC motor is a much more flexible tool than one without. Something I should have done long before I did. Cheers, Graham in Embrun near Ottawa Canada. ------- Re: Lathe Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:36 pm ((PDT)) Jim: Yes, the Sherline motor works really well on the lathe, especially if you use the Taig pulleys for a larger speed range. I have been able to go slowly enough to tap holes under power, the addition of a reversing circuit (detailed on the Sherline site, but voids the motor warranty) would facilitate this. Sherline charges quite a few bucks to get their 10,000 rpm pulleys, but you can actually get there with the Taig pulleys and Sherline motor provided you have a headstock that's rated for that. Martin ------- Re: Lathe Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:44 am ((PDT)) At 00:35 15/04/2007, you wrote: > Sherline charges quite a few bucks to get their 10,000 rpm > pulleys, but you can actually get there with the Taig pulleys and > Sherline motor provided you have a headstock that's rated for that. I have the Sherline motor on my mill with the Taig pulleys - the highest speed setting gets me to 15,000 RPM. So you do need to rein in your enthusiasm a bit at the top end unless you have bearings that will take that speed - I believe the stock bearings are not good for that. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Lathe Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:09 am ((PDT)) As I understand it the maximum rated speed is 7,000 RPM. I wonder if Taig increased that for the newest and ER spindle headstocks? Nick's web page seems to reflect a different speed range for the CNC and CNC ready mills, 1050-10,600 RPM versus 525-5200 RPM for the standard combination, so it would appear that bearings may have been uprated for a higher maximum speed. CNC and CNC ready mills obviously have different pulley sets from the standard combination and perhaps a different motor. Regards, Martin ------- Re: Lathe Posted by: "Lester Caine" lscesx~xxbtconnect.com Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:45 pm ((PDT)) Kurt is telling me that the ER16 collet spindle is good up to 15000 RPM, and that is the top speed I'm working to for the variable speed drive. Lester Caine - G8HFL ------- Re: Lathe Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:46 pm ((PDT)) The CNC and CNC ready mills use different bearings (same size, just sourced from elsewhere, AFAIK) that are better for high speed. The motor supplied (in the US) is 3450 rpm, so you get twice the speed as you do out of the lathe (usually used with a 1725 rpm motor). See our homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Re: Lathe Posted by: "James Eckman" ronin_engineerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:22 am ((PDT)) Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" > Ihave the Sherline motor on my mill with the Taig pulleys - the > highest speed setting gets me to 15,000 RPM. So you do need to rein > in your enthusiasm a bit at the top end unless you have bearings that > will take that speed - I believe the stock bearings are not good for > that. Luckily I'm looking for the lower end. Any luck turning at 2-300 RPM? Posted by: "Lester Caine" > Kurt is telling me that the ER16 collet spindle is good up to 15000 > RPM, and that is the top speed I'm working to for the variable speed > drive. For turning would you ever need 15,000 RPM? The current setup works quite well for small brass turnings already. Maybe there's some cool trick for this? Jim ------- Re: Lathe Posted by: "Martin Dobbins" trainnutzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:43 am ((PDT)) Jim: Yes, with the Sherline motor you can get things turning steadily at much slower than that if you need. As a beginner I was making what I believe is a classic mistake of not feeding the tool into the work fast enough. You can only crank the dials so fast, but your speed is even slower when you are trying to crank steadily and consistently. So, if you can't increase the feed you can achieve the same effect by dropping the speed. It took me a long time to understand this and only with a speed control at my fingertips was I able to get the speed just so that the metal sang and a nice continuous chip was coming off with a good finish. I've turned fairly large pieces of steel at (probably) around 50 RPM and as the size of the piece decreases steadily increased the speed to 2-300 RPM in small increments. That's the nice thing about a variable speed motor, as I was beginning to actually see, feel and hear a good cut I began to realize that 10 RPM faster, or 35 RPM slower would produce better results; how do you do that with pulley speed changes? I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the fastest learner or the most dextrous and I'm a long way from being a capable machinist, but I don't envy anybody that has to learn to turn with a fixed speed on a machine this size; the trip is much easier and more fun with variable speed. Why all this talk about higher speeds? Well, if you are using very small end mills on either the lathe or the mill, you need to have them spinning really quickly or otherwise you would not be able to feed the work slowly enough to avoid breaking the cutter. Kindest regards, Martin ------- Re: Taig CNC lathe conversion [taigtools] Posted by: "Peter Homann" groupsx~xxhomanndesigns.com Date: Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:07 pm ((PDT)) mike_mechanic1 wrote: > Hi all, I've been lurking around here for awhile and asked a few > questions with great help from you all. I am considering a CNC > conversion on my Taig lathe. Is there a good website showing this > conversion on a Taig? I've never done a conversion before so this will > all be new to me. I'd appreciatte any and all input from those of you > who have done it or are considering it. Thanks again. Hi Mike, I've got some information on my conversion at: http://www.homanndesigns.com/CNCTaigProject.html and some more at: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/taigfiles/photos/browse/426b in a photo album called Homanns Taig Cheers, Peter Web: www.homanndesigns.com email: homannx~xxhomanndesigns.com Phone: +61 421 601 665 www.homanndesigns.com/ModIO.html - Modbus Interface Unit www.homanndesigns.com/DigiSpeedDeal.html - DC Spindle control www.homanndesigns.com/TurboTaig.html - Taig Mill Upgrade board [later posting] The lathe can be run manually by putting a Sherline hand wheel in place of the Pulley. The motors are a size 17 stepper for the cross slide, don't have the figures for it though. The Z axis is a 180 oz/in size 23. Yes, I used my CNC Taig mill and Mach3's wizards to make the bracket. ------- Fine feed gears for leadscrew setup [taigtools] Posted by: "alx1n" anewmanx~xxoptusnet.com.au Date: Sun Sep 2, 2007 4:14 pm ((PDT)) This message is directed principally to Mr Jeffree, seeing as how it's his design :). Everyone else is most welcome to comment, however! I am collecting the various materials to construct the Jeffree leadscrew setup, and have just taken delivery of the very nice Sherline screw-cutting set. I also have the tumbler gears courtesy of HPC. The fine feed gearing is another matter entirely, and not just because of price! It appears that the G-24-120-PG gear has fallen off the latest HPC catalogue. The nearest in this DP and in steel is G-24-100 & G-24-112, or YG-24-120-XG, which is heavy duty steel. The same spec-ed wheel also exists in Delrin. Will the heavy duty steel wheel rip a standard duty HPC wheel to pieces, and am I therefore going to have to go with heavy duty wheels for the last two driver/driven fine feed wheels? Or won't it matter, given the slow speed of the 120T/leadscrew for this task? I may even end up attempting to cut my own gears (via making my own cutter cutters and relieving device). New lathe bed should arrive today, see my latest pics for why (Nick just put them up on his web site)! Thanks in advance for advice on the wheels, Alex ------- Re: Fine feed gears for leadscrew setup Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Sun Sep 2, 2007 10:50 pm ((PDT)) Alex -- There shouldn't be a problem using the "heavy duty steel" version -- you will find that the Sherline gears are actually aluminium and are significantly softer than the steel wheels. Actually, I would go for the Delrin version of the 120T gear if I was doing it again -- much cheaper and should last well. Have fun! Regards, Tony ------- Re: Fine feed gears for leadscrew setup Posted by: "Alexander Newman" anewmanx~xxoptusnet.com.au Date: Mon Sep 3, 2007 1:08 am ((PDT)) >Actually, I would go for the Delrin version of the 120T gear if >I was doing it again -- much cheaper and should last well. Hi Tony. Thanks for that! Delrin it is - and it is *much* cheaper! >Have fun! I will, thanks :). The new lathe turned up today, just unpacking it. Cheers, Alex ------- Variable speed motor [taigtools] Posted by: "Bob Swartzendruber" txbobx~xxaceweb.com Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT)) Does anyone have any experience with the variable speed conversion kit from Penn State Industries, Model E-10300B? Take a look here: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/e-10300b.html Their tech support says the motor is rated 1/2 hp at 1700 rpm. I'm thinking of adapting one to my Taig lathe. $85 seems like a good price for the motor and controller. Thanks, Bob S. ------- Re: Variable speed motor Posted by: "Bob Swartzendruber" txbobx~xxaceweb.com Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 3:14 pm ((PDT)) David Robertson wrote: > If you get responses from the other group (Penturners), please post > here. it should be a topic of general interest for lathe and mill. David, I posted the same question on IAP and got these responses: "They used to be $115 up until very recently. That is a very good price. I wonder if they are going to discontinue them and this is a way to get rid of the inventory on the shelves?? I don't have one; but several folks have commented on them and been satisfied. No unhappy customers that I can recall. My only concern is that they have a min. rotational speed of 650 RPMs and that is a little faster than some people prefer." "I bought and installed when it was $99...it was a bargain then. $85 is a no-brainer!" "I put mine in recently and don't know what I did before it. It was money well spent." "I took advantage of their sale the first day it came out a few weeks ago. 45 minutes to install then simply turn a dial to change speeds. I have a Jet mini and the control box seemed bass ackwards so I mounted it on the shelf above the lathe off to the right. Makes me wish I hadn't been talked out of the variable speed when I bought the mini." I think the "650 RPMs" referred to above is the min spindle speed using Jet pulleys, not motor shaft speed. If any dissenting opinions show up later, I'll post them here. Sounds like something I want to try. If it doesn't work well on my Taig lathe, I can always install it on my Jet mini wood lathe. Thanks, Bob S. ------- Re: Taig DC Motor... [taigtools] [refers to Penn State motor above] Posted by: "rrrevels" n4ftx~xxarrl.net Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 5:18 pm ((PST)) "Mitch Cundiff" wrote: > I just ordered one of those Dc motors today. I'm making a new mount, > Can someone give me the bolt size and bolt hole circle size ? > I wish to make a mount before it gets here next week. Mitch Hi Mitch: The bolt circle for the Penn State variable speed motor is 2.54 inches. The bolts are 6 mm. I made a mounting plate based on the modified Taig motor mount that Nick Carter has on his website. I also made a 3/4" spacer to go between the motor and mounting plate. The motor is 3 1/8" in diameter and I made the spacer ring the same. The reason for the 3/4" spacer is that it allows me to use the pulley without modifying the flat on the motor shaft. It took a couple of tries to get the spacer thickness to what I wanted. I also used longer screws that are flat head countersunk so the pulley can be close to the plate. I will post a couple of early pictures in the taigfiles group pictures under Russ' Taig. I got it all assembled and working today. I am pleased with it. There is a slight delay when it it turned on, but it has plenty of power and I have a large range of speeds using the Taig pulleys. ------- Adapting Treadmill Motor to Lathe [taigtools] Posted by: "bob_ledoux" bobledouxx~xxproaxis.com Date: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:05 pm ((PDT)) I bought the Surplus Center 10-2326, 3/4 HP DC motor for my lathe. I've considered several options to mate the motor pulley to the motor shaft. 1. Turn the motor pulley to 17mm to fit the motor shaft. This results in the loss of the lowest speed drive ratio to the lathe. 2. Mount the motor securely and treat it as a lathe head. Employ a graver or other cutting tool on a rest to turn the motor shaft down to 1/2 inch. 3. Turn the motor shaft on centers on my 9 x 20 lathe. The problem is the threaded pulley end does not have a female center. This requires a steady rest and a mechanism to center drill the end. One possibility is to use a turning tool to locate the end center, then center drill that located point. Another method, used by clockmakers, is to bore a short length of rod to slip over the motor shaft. Drill a small hole in the middle of the rod to act as a guide for locating center on the motor shaft. I'd like to retain the lowest possible spindle speed on the lathe. So I'd prefer not to sacrifice the smallest motor pulley groove. Are there any other ideas out there? ------- Re: Adapting Treadmill Motor to Lathe Posted by: "southofhadrianswall" acarlislex~xxidelix.com Date: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT)) Hi Bob, I'm using the Surplus Center 10-1783 motor on my Taig. The shaft on the 10-1783 looks very similar to the motor you have. Perhaps they are identical. In any case, I simply increased the bore of the Taig motor pulley to 17mm -- but only to the depth required to slip over the threaded portion of the motor shaft. No modification to the motor shaft was required, and the smallest portion of the motor pulley was preserved intact. It sounds like you have access to another lathe to bore the Taig pulley. In my case, I made a temporary single speed pulley for the Taig (on the Taig), so I could then turn down the Taig pulley (on the Taig). Andrew ------- Re: Adapting Treadmill Motor to Lathe Posted by: "bob_ledoux" bobledouxx~xxproaxis.com Date: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:03 pm ((PDT)) This is a reasonable alternative. There are two issues: The large groove end of the spindle pulley has a reduced diameter hole. The new spindle pulley can't be placed on backward (small end first) without drilling it out. I would also like to put an index plate on my spindle, which best fits on the large end of the spindle pulley. That arrangement works best if the plate is mounted next to the headstock. Your suggestion works if I choose to place the motor off the end of the headstock instead of behind the headstock. I'm willing to do this. My mounting board is 12 x 24 inches so I have the room. Thanks for the comment. ------- Re: Adapting Treadmill Motor to Lathe Posted by: "Daniel Fuller" fullerdjx~xxtx.rr.com Date: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:29 pm ((PDT)) Another option: Several years ago I bought a Treadmill motor and went to the local bearing house and bought 2 cast pulleys and a v-belt. (Decide what speed reductions you want for your needs; i.e. size of pulleys.) I got the right shaft sizes in the pulleys and just put them on the Taig and the treadmill motor. I was happy with the set up. I used the lathe for 3 or more years until I bought a bigger lathe. One word of caution ... DON'T buy cheap pulleys at the hardware store. They are not balanced and will bounce the lathe all over. Dan Fuller Carrollton, Texas ------- Re: Adapting Treadmill Motor to Lathe Posted by: "n2562001" jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:06 pm ((PDT)) Bob: If you want to use the original pulley for whatever reason and it requires turning the armature on centers, I see no reason not to do so since you have a larger lathe. The method you have described as a "Clockmakers method" is not very accurate for locating centers especially for a motor shaft. If you do not have a steady rest I would suggest the following. First mount a piece of metal (Preferably Brass) in the tool post large enough to accept a hole in it the same size as the motor shaft. The exposed part of this work piece should then be centered to the spindle and the cross slide locked in place. Then the spindle can be used to drill/bore/ream a hole the same size as the armature bearing shaft. It can be bored to exact size using a milling machine boring head held in the spindle/chuck. Also if the hole is small enough a boring bar can be held in a independent four jaw chuck and adjusted as needed. This will allow you to drive the armature with the spindle while supported by the tool post work piece, allowing you to center drill the shaft using the tailstock. The armature can then be turned on centers. Jerry Kieffer ------- Peterson Index Plates on Taig Headstock [taigtools] Posted by: "David Robertson" davidr415x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:28 am ((PST)) Taig Users: For any of you that may think about mounting clockmakers index plates on a Taig headstock, the following web page shows how I did it. Info on the plates and their maker is on the web page. The headstock is mounted on the bed of a Taig mill. Certainly not as elegant and flexible as a CNC rotary table, but considerably less expensive and meets my particular need. http://davesclocks.googlepages.com/usingpetersonindexpla tesonataigheadstock David Robertson ------- Re: Rack Gear [taigtools] Posted by: "j.toddshultz" j.toddshultzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 9:18 am ((PST)) j.toddshultz wrote: >> Does anyone know where I could find a supplier for the rack gear >> for the taig lathe with an extended bed... approx.3.5 ft. "Peter Homann" wrote:> Hi, > Try the Taig factory. They may be able to supply it in the length > you require. Thank you for the suggestion. I have already spoken to the owners at Taig and they only make the short (approx. 12 inch) pieces. There is one place I have found that has something that will work however they want more than I wish to pay for them... besides I want to purchase 10 or 12 pieces at a time. What I am looking for is someone who can make them at a reasonable price. Or even someone who has a leadscrew setup for the taig lathe which could be adapted for a 48 inch bed. ------- Re: Rack Gear Posted by: "tsalaff" tsalaffx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 11:15 am ((PST)) > Or even someone who has a leadscrew setup for the taig lathe which > could be adapted for a 48 inch bed. Try here http://www.stdsteel.com/gear.htm Or here http://www.bostongear.com/products/open/index.html Steve ------- New web site for the Home/Hobby Machinist Posted by: "Paul W. Chamberlain" pwcx~xxcapcocons.com Date: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:19 pm ((PST)) Time for a shameless plug... I have started a web site for tooling I make for the Home/Hobby Machinist, and items for other miniature metalworking interests: http://www.minimechanicals.com I currently only have two items for the Taig lathe... Adjustable 4- Way Toolposts for both 1/8" and 1/4" toolbits: http://www.minimechanicals.com/hhlathe/taig/taig.html Nick has reviewed the 1/8" version at his site: http://www.cartertools.com/pctpost.html I'm working on some other ideas suggested by Nick, and am open to any recommendations from group members for tooling or accessories that I can add to my offerings. Thank you for a great group, and your time... Paul, Central OR ------- My new Motor Mounting Plate [taigtools] Posted by: "budman6899" wescott99x~xxhotmail.com Date: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:52 pm ((PST)) Just figured you'd guys would get a kick out of seeing this. I made a new mount as the stock taig mill motor mount is pretty sad in design. Getting your fingers back in there with wrenches gets old, even with the long "T" handled wrenches. The lower plate is bolted down with an upgraded counterbored 1/4-20 on the old pivot location and the top plate is held by the 10-32 but loctited and has a slip fit so that I may utilize 1 clamping screw which is on the outer perimeter. It's just a temporary 10-32 screw and nut for now but I will be turning a nice little lever for it so that it will be completely tool-less which will give nice, quick belt adjustments. Needless to say (but I will anyway), the motor is mounted with 4 counterbored 10-32 buttonheads. It's kind of funny as I did not CNC the work as I only bought this in October. This is all manually machined as I wanted to make sure it was done right the first time...lol! The pics are under a new folder called "Budman's Mill Photos" Dave ------- Re: My new Motor Mounting Plate Posted by: "budman6899" wescott99x~xxhotmail.com Date: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:42 pm ((PST)) Just thought I'd update this as I made the locking lever this afternoon -- pics are in the "Budman's Mill Photos" folder. Dave ------- Re: My new Motor Mounting Plate Posted by: "Paul W. Chamberlain" pwcx~xxcoinet.com Date: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:58 pm ((PST)) Hi Dave. Nice sanitary looking upgrade. Sure beats trying to get that Allen wrench in those rear mounted capscrews. Paul, Central OR http://MiniMechanicals.com ------- A whole new view: adding a stereo microscope to the Taig [taigtools] Posted by: "John Bentley" Johnx~xxJRBentley.com theengineman Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 9:26 pm ((PST)) Hi folks, I finally decided it was time to see what I was doing when making small parts. I ordered a Lomo MBC-10 and attached it to the cross slide. Wow! - to see exactly how the metal is cutting, precisely where the tip of the tool is located, as well as seeing the point of a small drill bit as it begins a hole, is spectacular. I was thinking originaly that magnification would help if my eyesight begins to worsen with age, but now I wish I had bought the scope thirty years ago. I find it is so much easier to get a good finish on tiny parts. If anyone is interested in the MBC-10 and/or how I attached it, I put up two pages on my website. The first page deals with the instrument while pg. 2 is about using it on the Taig. www.microscope.modelengines.info Best regards, John ------- Re: A whole new view: adding a stereo microscope to the Taig Posted by: "Jeff Demand" jdemandx~xxgmavt.net Date: Wed Mar 5, 2008 9:17 am ((PST)) Thanks John, very nicely done. Now I have another temptation to resist. Alas I'll probably fail :-) Jeff ------- A whole new view: adding a stereo microscope to the Taig Posted by: "Clive Foster" clive_fosterx~xxtalk21.com Date: Wed Mar 5, 2008 1:50 am ((PST)) John: Wonderful piece of kit. Not sure that I'm totally in love with expensive optics close to machine tools tho'. I've considered doing something similar for my machines using a cheap web-cam or mini CCTV camera. Obviously the image quality and available magnification wont compare but it ought to be cheaper and may well be good enough. I wonder if anyone has any relevant experience of pros and cons for the two approaches. I've built cross hair and reticule generators for CCTV displays for the firm about 25 year back so if I can find the circuits... Clive ------- A whole new view: adding a stereo microscope to the Taig Posted by: "John Bentley" Johnx~xxJRBentley.com Date: Wed Mar 5, 2008 3:45 pm ((PST)) Clive: I considered taking the video route and it's not unreasonable. I would look for an old 8mm handycam, they are selling at very low prices these days. Probably a small flat screen monitor/television would be the best and safest thing in a workshop. Some of the 8mm video cameras operated in full telephoto when in macro mode, this might permit mounting the camera a reasonable distance from the work with good magnification. A stereo microscope offers a 3-dimensional view, hence providing much needed depth perception for working solid objects. Although this would be lost with a video system a good clear color picture can reveal a lot of detail. I often take macro pictures of small workpieces and view them on the camera's screen at 10x digital zoom on playback. This allows me to see things I can only imagine with normal eyesight. I keep a couple of old Canons in the workshop for the purpose and the resulting shots also give me a good supply of pictures for my web site. As far as demolishing my microscope optics in the workshop, I think I have that situation covered. The microscope is a very rugged one - the bottom lens is protected by a camera UV filter and the instrument remains covered when not in use. When not needed on the Taig it can be removed, carried across the workshop and remounted on its proper base in 8 seconds - I timed myself! (proves how small my shop is) In my location the cost to buy equivlent video equipment, a mounting bracket and monitor swing arm would have been comparable or even greater than the cost of the stereo microscope. For me, the latter seemed the easier route and serves extra duty in assembly, inspection and splinter removal. John ------- Sherline Motor [taigtools] Posted by: "combelis" asix~xxakita2000.co.il Date: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:26 pm ((PDT)) Hi, I'm thinking of buying a Sherline motor for my mill. Can someone post pictures and instructions on how to mount and fit the Sherline motor to the Taig mill? Thanks, Asi ------- Sherline Motor Posted by: "Gordon Reithmeier" blscopesx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:04 am ((PDT)) Check the "Photos" section of the "taigfiles" group under Taig Hybrid 2 for the method I used to install a Sherline Motor to the Taig headstock. In my case it was for a lathe but the same system should work for the mill as well. The headstock must be the newer style with a T Slot protrusion on the back and a stock Sherline headstock pulley must be bored out to fit the Taig spindle. The Sherline belt will work. Gord ------- Re: A new cross-slide assembly? [taigtools] Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:39 am ((PDT)) stl.bill wrote: > I bought my Taig lathe in 1985 or so. I knew zero about machining. > The cross slide took the punishment of my learning and shows it. The > slots are sufficiently damaged that I can't use them at certain > points. Since Taig now offers a ballbearing cross-slide dial, would I > be better off replacing the whole cross-slide assembly or just replace > the cross-slide bed? What is the cost for a new cross-slide assembly? > I can find the individual part numbers but I have not seen a part > number for the assembly. Thanks. > bill marvel (I am a little more careful these days!!!) A complete carriage assembly might be an option as they now use an extrusion instead of the old casting, and it has greater cross slide travel. #1260 full assembled lathe carriage $63.45 As for just replacing the cross slide, you could do that as well: 100-26 $18.25 Crosslide 100-27 $2.75 Crosslide Gib 5 of 100-27A $0.10 Crosslide Gib 4-40 Screw, .50 new lathe cross slide screw assembly $15.15 plus the nut for $2.50 $24.00, I think that's all you would need... See our homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Gears for adding leadscrew to the Taig Lathe [taigtools] Posted by: "woodie122000" ledinger26x~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:04 pm ((PDT)) Does anyone know where in the I can get the Gears for adding the leadscrew to the Taig Lathe as in Tony Jeffree's book? Thanks ------- Re: Gears for adding leadscrew to the Taig Lathe Posted by: "kd006" kd006x~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:11 pm ((PDT)) Wm. Berg, Stock Drive products, Boston Gear come to mind, Might want to look at Electronic Lead Screw there is a Yahoo group and they will have a product out in about a month and a half to solve the problem electronically. Kristin ------- leather bed wipers [taigtools] Posted by: "leeharrysouth" EDAVIS93x~xxComcast.Net Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:11 pm ((PDT)) I am getting started with my new lathe and have read articles concerning the addition of leather bed wipers. Although this is something I would like to do in the future, is it something I need to do right away to protect the bed? Johnny ------- Re: leather bed wipers Posted by: "kd006" kd006x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:36 pm ((PDT)) Johnny: Probably not right away but it's pretty easy to do, I used some hobby type brass .064" thick and had to file the width to fit the slots on the side of the carriage to fit, drilled and tapped a couple of 4-40 holes with a strip on the outside and a strip of leather clamped in between and it works great. About a 1-2 hour project at most. Not a bad idea though as it does keep the bed clear of swarf and makes it easier to clean up. Kristin ------- Re: leather bed wipers Posted by: "John Bentley" Johnx~xxJRBentley.com Date: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:33 pm ((PDT)) Mark, I don't think any fine metal dust will get past the leather wiper and under the carriage. It will stick in the edge of the oily leather but you can clean or replace at regular intervals. My intervals are 20 yrs apart, but you could do better... The particles will be sitting in the oil on the bed anyway, being pushed around by either the carriage or the rag when it's cleaned off. It's still better than embedding solidly into the inner surface of the carriage and acting like a diamond hone. It's cheaper to replace two inches of bootlace than a carriage. Here's a picture of mine... http://lathes.jrbentley.com/5.jpg did you allow for any type of adjustment or just apply a light > leather pressure against the lathe way. Thanks, Johnny Johnny, I didn't use any adjustment. The wipers press down a bit firmly the first time you slide the carriage on the bed, but the oil allows the leather to compress and the drag becomes very slight. John ------- NOTE TO FILE: Dean Williams has a lot of good information and tips and modifications for the Taig on his site. Be sure to see his simple but effective leadscrew addition for the lathe. ------- Lathe leadscrew project [taigtools] Posted by: "Dean Williams" deanofidx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:08 pm ((PDT)) I completed a leadscrew addition for my lathe a little while back, and after a few false starts getting a web page for it put up, I think I have it half way presentable. If you want to have a look, check out the link. http://tinyurl.com/Taig-Leadscrew or http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/leadscr ew/leadscrew.html Dean ------- Pesky Taig dial hubs [taigtools] Posted by: "kd006" kd006x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:42 pm ((PDT)) Since I have been messing with both the lathe and mill doing some mods, it's a real pain to remove the dial/leadscrew hubs. Of course you "can" grab them with a waterpump plier or Vise grip and a rag or leather pad but that's just not right. A few weeks ago the traveling tool sale was in town and I saw an inexpensive adjustable pin spanner <$5. I bought it even though I thought the pins were too big (.187 or so not .125 for the Taig). Today I took it over to the vise and punched the old pins out, made a couple of new ones from steel rod and set them back in -- fits perfect. I made them a little undesize .120" just in case they were not in line. I suppose you could fabricate the whole thing with a couple of pieces of 1/8 x 1/2 hardware store steel and a bolt for the hinge (think compass or dividers with the points at right angel to the arms) but this was already made and it took about 15 min to modify. Now I am off to braze the pins in place, harden and anneal them so it lasts. I'll see if I can post pictures if anyone is interested. Kristin [later message] Pictures added to folder "Bearings and things" ------- Taig vertical mill attachment [taigtools] Posted by: "Johnny Davis" EDAVIS93x~xxComcast.Net Date: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:58 pm ((PST)) I have ponderd making and mounting a vertical mill attachment on my Taig lathe. My thought is to manufacture the spindle housing from t-6 aluminum and utilize my stock Taig motor with a belt, pully and gear takeoff to provide power for the spindle. I would use the stock Taig milling attachment as a foundation for the mill spindle and housing assembly. My only concern is will the crosslide support such weight and torque as necessary for light milling? For that matter, a stock Taig mill spindle could be utilized. I noticed that on John Bentley's web page he has mounted an optical system to his crosslide. I don't know how much it weighs, but, it must be far heavier than a milling attachment. Any comments on this? Johnny ------- Re: Taig vertical mill attachment Posted by: "John Bentley" Johnx~xxJRBentley.com Date: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:08 pm ((PST)) Johnny: My microscope weighs 6.6 pounds, the illuminator makes it 7 and my bracket and pole mount probably brings the all-up total to about 8 pounds. With the old-style cast carriage, movement along the ways became heavier as the microscope was moved back with the cross slide. As the center of gravity moved back behind the bed, carriage travel became increasingly stiffer...however cross slide movement was not much problem. This is fine for a scope which can remain near the lathe axis, but it might be a problem with a milling attachment. However I just went down to my shop and checked it out again using the new extruded carriage and was surprised that it behaved very much better. The new carriage is wider and the cross slide dovetails are longer, the ball bearing leadscrew is beefier (at the handle end) and possibly the anodized dovetail surfaces present lower friction with the lathe ways. These features should all help when using a milling head on the cross slide. In any case I had to screw the cross slide (with scope attached) far out over the rear of the bed before I noticed excessive drag in the carriage travel. I have thought many times over the years about making a motorized milling attachment on my Taig. Some things to consider would be: keep it light and rigid; use a lightweight but powerful motor (a smaller high speed motor with lightweight speed reduction); put the motor in front of the head if necessary to maintain the typical center of gravity over the axis (and over the centerline of the cross slide); limit cutter diameters to some reasonable figure; keep the lathe slides in decent adjustment - and a little tighter, rather than looser. Remember there are three good places for a lathe milling attachment: a) fixed to the the cross slide; b) attached at the back of the bed; c) hanging out from the headstock - like a 3-in-1 machine. The latter two have their purposes - they use the slides to move the work around like a miniature milling machine. I would be tempted to make a design which could be used in all three configurations to get the most use out of the unit. Have fun! John ------- Re: Taig vertical mill attachment Posted by: "Johnny Davis" EDAVIS93x~xxComcast.Net Date: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:24 pm ((PST)) John thanks for your input. I had wondered about the weight of your optical attachment. It must be a great asset to you in the machining of small parts. As for the vertical mill, your idea to mount the attachment on the lathe headstock or at the foot of the bed, as a 3-in-1 machine, would probably offer the best stability. I have seen a photo of a large industrial machine (can't remember where) that had a mill head that slid on four large rods over the lathe. The head would move to and fro axially along the length of the lathe. I think it would also travel in the Y axis. I think that type of setup would offer great stability and versatility. I guess a heavy aluminum or steel bed for the lathe and mill assembly would be needed to keep all things in union. I have a 3-in-1 machine (Shoptask bridgemill) and have found it very useful. The one great drawback to this machine is nothing can be milled while still in the chuck because of the central placement of the mill head. All said, this is one of those projects I ponder when nothing else is traveling between my ears. It is a one day thing. As of now I have other things going with my Taig mill and lathe. I just finished a platform to raise the lathe and now am working on dial indicator mounts and the installation of wipers. Another first on my list is to copy your sensitive drilling attacment for placement on the mill. I do have the new carriage on my lathe. It is not holow as the old in front. Did you install your lead screw clutch assembly on your new carriage? If so, did you machine a space under the carriage at the front or install the clutch at another location? Thanks, Johnny ------- Re: Taig vertical mill attachment Posted by: "John Bentley" Johnx~xxJRBentley.com Date: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:51 pm ((PST)) Johnny, I understand that "one-day fleeting project syndrome" - I experience it often! An interesting option to the conventional milling attachment is the One Step Mill. It was developed and is sold in Britain, consisting of a powered spindle built into a small box that has a bar on the side of it - shaped like a tool blank. This is clamped into the toolpost. You then have a rotating milling cutter that can be put into any position just like a standard lathe tool. The design incorporates a simple vertical slide to set the height and offers a variety of speeds. The complete construction article was in one of the English magazines a while back. The original model is too large for a Taig, but a scaled down version would be excellent. Among the usual things, it would be superb for making holes in circular cover plates and a host of other dividing-related milling tasks. I haven't attached the leadscrew engagement device yet to my new carriage. I now have the old lathe with an almost-new carriage assembly and an almost-unused headstock (left over from changing the mill head to the ER-16 head). That makes my old lathe nearly a new one! It might be prudent to put the leadscrew back there and come up with something new and different for the new lathe. In the meantime have a look at Dean Williams' setup, if you haven't already. It is compatible with the solid carriage - he has a nice page describing it: http://tinyurl.com/Dean-Williams-Projects BTW thanks for motivating me to check out the new carriage operation under the weight of the microscope - I did learn something last night about its improved sliding characteristics and will put a comment to that effect soon on my page describing the carriage. http://lathes.jrbentley.com/carriage.html John ------- Re: Taig vertical mill attachment Posted by: "Anthony Costello" ajcjhx~xxcharter.net Date: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:16 am ((PST)) Try Quick step mill, made by Hemingway Kits. Anthony ------- DC motor conversion for lathe and mill [taigtools] Posted by: "stinson108_1" stinson108_1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:58 pm ((PST)) Hi All, I've been considering a variable speed DC conversion to my mill for a while. As we all know there are copious sources for conversion. One has caught my attention but never quite captured me before: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html The Penn State Industries motor is a great size and a few members here have used them. The thing that always stopped me was that the motor in "stock" form didn't go as slow as I would like. I think it has been reported here that it goes down to ~500 RPM. That is OK for the mill in most cases but is still faster than would be nice for the lathe. Coincidentally, I've been helping a friend CNC his Taig lathe. In the process, he bought the motor listed above. He graciously allowed me to play with it fº I¡¦ve also recently been studying other DC motor controllers from KB and others. I believe KB makes the controller for Sherline. At any rate these SCR based controllers are all fairly similar. That gave me the courage to play with his controller after we opened it to reverse the polarity so we could mount the motor body to the left of the headstock out of the way of the CNC leadscrew. When we opened it we noticed the controller had several POTs (potentiometers) which are just variable resistors. Needless to say, after adjusting the POT maked L I was able to get the motor to go to 0 speed near 0 on the control panel dial (another POT). This slowed the upper end down a bit. So I adjusted the POT marked H (high) and was able to get the speed back up to where it was "pre-adjustment". I would estimate the speed range as 0-~2000RPM. I'll post actual speed when I can put a tachometer on the motor. So, the long and short of it this motor seems to me like a "no brainer" on price, size, and performance for our stout little lathes and mills. I was also able to bore out one of new style Taig pulleys to fit the shaft (~.590 15mm ??) without losing the smallest step -- > your mileage may vary :) Also, Adjusting the POTs is totally reversible and only requires the ability to operate a screwdriver and the power switch ;) For the lawyers out there --> Make adjustments with the power off as touching live circuits in these can be deadly! They are at line voltage levels (110VAC)!!! ------- Re: DC motor conversion for lathe and mill Posted by: "David Robertson" davidr415x~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:25 am ((PST)) Thanks SO MUCH for trying this and reporting the results and methodology. I have had one of these on my mill for about a year and really like it. I would also like one for the lathe but the low speed has been an issue. For those of you wanting a variable speed motor, these are extremely smooth and a nice physical size -- more compact than many of the treadmill motors. David ------- Re: DC motor conversion for lathe and mill Posted by: "Steve Blackmore" stevex~xxpilotltd.net Date: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:43 pm ((PST)) What you also need to consider is that as you reduce controller speed, you also reduce torque. Don't ignore multi step pulleys if you want good torque at low spindle speeds. Steve Blackmore ------- Re: Hello Stinson108 ; [WAS: DC motor conversion for lathe and mill] Posted by: "stinson108_1" stinson108_1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:52 pm ((PST)) Hi Curtis, I am not currently in possesion of the controller. If you are looking down into the controller with the heatsink'd components on the right, the two POTS on the left with L and H next to them were what I adjusted. Start with the L. I recall moving it counter clockwise but could have been clockwise. Note where you start and then move it CCW 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Startup the motor and see if you can dial it down slower. If the startup speed isn't lowered move the POT in the other direction. Repeat until the motor stops when the control pannel speed dial is at the lowest setting. Next adjust the POT marked H in a similar fashion until the speed is back up to normal at the high end. This one didn't require as much movement or was limited at the top end of the POT. As a side note, Steve is correct that motor torque falls off with RPM. If you want the ultimate low end machine an intermediate (2-step) set of pulleys will be required even with this mod. My friend measured the motor last night with his tachometer and was getting ~150 RPM to ~4600 with no load on the lathe. We have the stock pulley mounted so I think it would be achievable to get good reduction with the smallest pulley step on the motor and the largest on the lathe while maintaining enough torque to make light cuts. When you want to go faster, up the motor RPM and/or switch pulley steps -- you have variability with all the stock pulley steps. At any rate, once we get my friend's lathe setup, I'll post how slow we can turn and what kind of cut we can make in Aluminum etc. When we get his lathe going I'll take pictures and post more information. Ian ------- Mill enclosure [taigtools] Posted by: "kenlambert2003" kenlambert2003x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:08 pm ((PST)) I have posted some pics of the tank part of my enclosure I am building for the CNC Mill. The machine is mounted in the tank. I will put plexiglass around it mounted in the 1/8" gap around the tank. It has a drain and a coupler for the coolant welded in the side. I do a lot of traveling so it is mounted in my trailer along with 2 lathes for building engines and conversion parts for RC airplanes. At this point I have about 100.00 in the materials, the way I designed it there are no holes in the bottom to start leaking, the welds have been checked for leaks, and all is sealed. The pics are in my album under kenlambert. ------- Re: picsof tank Posted by: "stinson108_1" stinson108_1x~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:40 pm ((PST)) Nice! I've been thinking of a similar setup though not as sturdy made out of a pan they put under upstairs washing machines. I am curious about the design choices you made when selecting the depth of the tub? Was it so it could double as your sump? Like to grab ideas from the great folks here! This looks stout for sure. Thanks Ian ------- Re: picsof tank Posted by: "kenneth lambert" kenlambert2003x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:08 am ((PST)) It was several things. I can plug the drain and use it for the sump (not intending to do that at first). It is in a trailer so I wanted it to be rigid and have some weight to it. The machine is mounted to the tank and not the bench so the tank needed enough meat to support the machine and keep it from flopping around while going down the road. As well it needs to support the plexiglass sides and doors. I am sure I could have made it shorter and have it work fine, but I may want to design some kind of skimmer some day and the depth would make it a little easier. thanks Kenneth www.lambertsrc.com ------- Re: Mill enclosure Posted by: "Steve Blackmore" stevex~xxpilotltd.net Date: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:24 am ((PST)) Will be awkward to clean swarf out and drain completely? Steve Blackmore ------- Re: Mill enclosure Posted by: "kenneth lambert" kenlambert2003x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:59 am ((PST)) Why is that? I use a vacuum to clean my chips now and that even worked with my larger machine. I will have a screen over the drain to filter the chips; also it is in a trailer so I already figured in the fact that I can raise the tongue to make everything go where I need it. I am open to suggestions. I have been waiting for someone to come up with an enclosure first but haven't seen any here except for the one with the motor tub with a curtain which would work fine except mine moves around so I needed something that would serve as a leakproof tank and hold the machine solidly all in one. thanks Kenneth www.lambertsrc.com ------- Re: Mill enclosure Posted by: "Steve Blackmore" stevex~xxpilotltd.net Date: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:18 am ((PST)) Your drain is in the side, not the bottom; you will still have liquid in there unless you tilt your trailer ;) Easier to have a tray, with drain hole on one corner and a separate removable coolant tank so you can clean out the gunge occasionally; it also makes the machine more accessible for maintenance. Steve Blackmore ------- Re: Mill enclosure Posted by: "kenneth lambert" kenlambert2003x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:24 am ((PST)) The actual tank that will store the fluid will be seperate from the tank for the enclosure; I don't plan on keeping the fluid in with the machine. I will post more pics when completed and you will see how it works. thanks Kenneth www.lambertsrc.com [later message] I have added photos of my enclosure tank after having it powder coated. Album under kenlambert ------- Drilling from the carriage [taigtools] Posted by: "Shad" shendersonx~xxthegeekgroup.org Date: Fri May 22, 2009 11:28 am ((PDT)) Hi All, Been busy with Real Life(tm), but still finding some time here and there for puttering about the garage. The latest in a short line of tools I've made is a drilling attachment to allow me to drill from the carriage. It's pretty basic, and not quite finished yet. I started with a 2" diameter piece of aluminum round 3" long, and trued it up. I then drilled 2 holes on 1" centers to let me bolt it to the T slots. I then used the milling attachment to mill two flats. Next I bolted it to the carriage, and drilled it in-place to accept the spindle. I then counter-bored it to accept some ball bearings, using a length of hard-chromed rod through the bore and held in the 3 jaw chuck to align it for the second counterbore. Worked a treat. Then I lost the darn spindle I was going to use. This irritates me, as I'd already done all the necessary machining on it. No huge loss, as I have another identical dead cordless drill to get the same part from, but now I'll have to repeat the machining steps. Turn it down to fit the bearings, machine grooves for the retaining rings, track down another spring washer and E clip. All parts available in my "junk" drawer. Once the spindle is in place, I can install the pulley and fabricate the motor mount. The motor will be a sewing machine motor, complete with speed control. Since I won't be using big chunky drill bits, this will be fine. If not, I'm sure a rummage through my boxes of stuff will turn up an appropriate motor. This will be handy for making my indexing plate for the headstock, along with drilling holes in a workpiece too far from center of simply offset it in the 4 jaw chuck. I'll post pictures online as I have a chance to take them. Another nifty little "tool" I made is a block for setting tools on center. It's simply a 3" square piece of 5/8" aluminum plate, with a lip on the bottom, back side. It simply sets on the bed, and the lip is snugged up against the back of the bed. A set of scribed lines depict the horizontal and vertical centers of the spindle rotation. I marked these with a carbide scribe held in a fixture on the milling attachment. I painted the block's face black before scribing the lines, so they show up nicely. This lets me easily set the tool on center, but also lets me set my poor-man's-DRO (harbor freight digital calipers clamped to the cross slide) at zero when the tool tip is at the center of the spindle's rotation. Once the "DRO" is zeroed, I can crank the cross slide and use 1/2 of the displayed value as my absolute position. Makes it easy to turn rough or out-of-round stock down to a known diameter without stopping every few seconds to use calipers or a mike on it. Hope it helps! Shad H. ------- [taigtools] Re: Custom Aluminum Combination threaded "T" slot nuts for the Taig Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun May 24, 2009 1:31 pm ((PDT)) The taig nuts are supposed to be standard #10 square nuts.... So taig does not have to machine them at all. They just order them by the pound. Unfortunately, no hardware store in my town carries them, so I have to order them in. My preferred method these days is to screw a ready-rod stud into the nut and then tack weld it in place. I keep a bunch of 'em around in different lengths, and it lets me adjust things with a wingnut or a knurled nut if I don't need too much torque. If I'm clamping things down for fly cutting, I use two nuts on the top of the stud, since I find the interrupted cut tends to vibrate a nut loose if it does not have a jam nut. ------- My NEW Jig/Fixtrure Tooling Plate.............. [taigtools] Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Fri Jun 5, 2009 6:33 pm ((PDT)) I looked everywhere...I couldn't find a jig/fixtire tooling plate that I really liked. So, I made my own. Instead of using 1/2" thick Mic-6, I used the 3/8" thick stuff. I'm not enamoured with 3-32 screws and hex key wrenches used with the 10-32 screws. I've always found the 6mmx1.0 screws to be the ideal thread pitch of table fasteners on mini and micro mills. 1/4x20 is OK, and 1/4x28 would be better. But, the stuff is not cheap in lengths over one inch long and need to be fully threaded. Anyway, the M6X1 threaded hex bolts are widely avaiable in long lengths that are full threaded. The 10mm combination wrench is just the right size and the bolt head is smaller and interferes less than the more akward 7/16 wrench. If the long stud is not in the way, a long bolt can be threaded into the "T" slot nut and a nut and washer be used to hold the toe clamp to the table; another advantage. I've seen so many 1/2 inch thick tooling plates that allow only 1/2 inch of penetration into them with the bolt, before they bottom on and damage the milling table. I vowed that there must be a better design. So, I based my tooling plate on a designed to fit the Taig mill. I made the tapped holes on the tooling plate align with the center axis of the "T" nut slot on the milling table. I did not tap the holes totally through, but in case the bolts did go through, there would be another 1/2 inch or more penetration before they bottomed into the table slot. Since the x-axis table travel is only 9.5 inches on the 2018 and 12 inches on the 2019, I am at a loss as to why the plate needs to cover the length of the entire table. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but 12 inches is all I'll ever need, even if someday I upgrade my 2017 to a 2019. Also, having the ends of the table and the slots exposed means that I can use them for clamping of fixtures outside of the tooling plate. I did, however, add two rows of tapped holes making a fourth and fith row of tapped holes to extend y-axis clamping outside of the front and back of the table. Since y-axis travel is 6 inches, this made the table more versatile. I did, however, use 6 counterbored holes on the four outermost corners and center of the two outnoard slots to mount the plate to the table. So, this is basically my improved design for a Taig mill tooling plate that is custom fitted for the Taig. Regards, Leo ------- Re: My NEW Jig/Fixtrure Tooling Plate.............. Posted by: "dak_1953" dkoleanx~xxameritech.net Date: Sun Jun 7, 2009 8:03 am ((PDT)) I asked the same question a few weeks ago when I was starting to make a fixture plate for my X2. I was told the additional X axis length allows for fixture support and clamping beyond the limits of the X axis work envelope. You will be able to use the t-slots for clamping; however you will not have support for a fixture beyond the end of your plate. I made my fixture plate the same length as the table and 1.5" wider (Y axis) and mounted it centered. Dan ------- Re: My NEW Jig/Fixtrure Tooling Plate.............. Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Sat Jun 6, 2009 1:32 pm ((PDT)) Upon further consideration, I thought I'd add 10-32 thread capability to my new tooling plate by drilling and tapping holes into the spaces between the M6 threaded holes. Then, I came out with a better idea......Since the minor diameter of the M6 threaded holes are larger in diamether than the 10-32 screws, I could place a "T" nut under the hole in the slot and use 10-32 screws or studs. Better yet, how about a strip of tapped holes in an aluminum bar to go right under the series holes in the plate with the same hole spacing as the plate? Now, that will be really nice. Leo ------- Taig Power Feed [taigtools] Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 6:01 pm ((PDT)) Taig sent me the prototype of their power feed: http://www.mechanicalphilosopher.com/taigpower.html It works well. If you have trouble feeding smoothly by hand or take long cuts then it will make you happy. Those of you hoping for threading/easy CNC conversion will be somewhat disappointed. It's not available yet and I have no idea when it will be done. See our homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- [taigtools] IMPORTANT NOTICE on Mill Head Crash....................Modification Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:12 pm ((PDT)) I wasted 6 hours out of the entire day today.... with a head crash on my 2017ER manual mill that I purchased and installed a couple of months, ago. After having spent almost the entire day laying out a new part to be machined, while machining the same part, I noticed that the mill would stall. Luckily, I had mounted the part on my new jig plate, instead of directly mounting it on the table. Using plastic spacers to avoid milling into the jig plate, I notice that the mill would stall again and again. Trying to surface the part with a 1/2 inch end mill. I noticed that each succeeding cut would be deeper than the one before. Finally I realized that the one screw holding the plate that locks the head to the to the dovetail mount, Part #48 on the Taig mill parts list, had loosened very slightly from heavy use and vibration. The head was slowly creeping downward as milling continued. The part was a total loss, and I cut a circle into the jig plate under the plastic spacer. The lesson I learned, and that I'm hoping to share with the other users here, especially those using a CNC machine, is that I could have easily damaged the mill table. Fortunately I marred only my fixture plate. To assure that this will never happen, again, I added a "stop plate" to the downward travel of the milling head, so that it will not travel down the dovetail mount. The "stop plate" is basically a piece of 1/8 inch thick aluminum with two holes in it. #12 drill to be exact, and spaced the same distance apart as the bottom two dovetail mounting holes. I replaced the two 1/2 inch long 10-32 socket head screws with ones 3/4 inch long, which reaches the proper depth as the originals when the "stop plate" is added. So, everyone who owns and uses a Taig mill should be aware of this issue and make and install the "stop plate." It is cheap insurance. Leo ------- Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE on Mill Head Crash....................Modification Posted by: "Steve Blackmore" stevex~xxpilotltd.net Date: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:19 am ((PDT)) The lesson here is, if it stalls, you're doing something wrong or something is loose/broken. Fix the reason for stalling, then check the machine before continuing. Check your machine regularly for loose screws. Steve Blackmore ------- Heretic! Bosch Spindle Replacement [taigtools] Posted by: "John Bear Ross" johnbearrossx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:04 am ((PDT)) Just wanted to show off my spindle replacement, using a Bosch Colt Palm Router, a K2CNC Mounting Bracket, and a self-fabbed adaptor plate. Off comes the old spindle... http://johnbearross.com/oldspindle.jpg New Mount... http://johnbearross.com/newspindlemount.jpg New Collets and Nut from Precisebits.com http://johnbearross.com/newspindlecolletandmount.jpg And in she goes... http://johnbearross.com/newspindle3.jpg http://johnbearross.com/newspindle2.jpg http://johnbearross.com/newspindle1.jpg The Bosch is very nice, and zooms up to 35K rpm with 1 hp behind it. I've tested it for runout, and didn't detect a thing with my old 196 plunge-back. Test cuts are this weekend. Best, JBR http://www.johnbearross.com ------- Accessories Wanted [taigtools] Posted by: "Jack" tech.writerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 11:01 pm ((PDT)) I've been having a blast making parts with the new mill and lathe. Some of the items for my audio amps have ended up much more complicated than I first thought, but these two machines have made short work of them. Anyway, there are two accessories that would really help in all this, but I don't know if anyone actually makes them. First, I'd like to have a 3/4 X 16 spindle that I can chuck in a drill press. That way, I could use lathe chucks and other holders to mount my work in the press for procedures like grinding, sanding and polishing. That would keep abrasives away from the lathe. Second, I would like to see a rotary tap holder with a T-handle or hex head that could mount in the tailstock. As it is now, I have to turn the spindle by hand with the tap held stationary in the tailpiece. That's a major inconvenience and it wastes a lot of time. Has anyone seen anything like this on the market? Jack ------- Re: Accessories Wanted Posted by: "Mike Nicewonger" twmasterx~xxtwmaster.com Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 11:07 pm ((PDT)) Interesting idea for the first item. For your second item many folks have a hand crank for the spindle. Mike N ------- Re: Accessories Wanted Posted by: "Jack" tech.writerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:54 am ((PDT)) Well, that doesn't really do it for me. I'm right-handed, and I want the crank on the right where the tailstock is. That would give me the best feel and control of the process. Hard to believe there's nothing off the shelf like this. ------- Re: Accessories Wanted Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 10:02 am ((PDT)) Often a tap wrench will have a center hole on the end that you can stick in the live or dead tailstock center for alignment. See our homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Re: Accessories Wanted Posted by: "kd006" kd006x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 10:52 am ((PDT)) Jack: Make a new shaft for the tailstock, turn the end down and drill the tap holder to match; you could either pin it in place or use a flat and setscrew to attach. The other end could have a t-handle crank or knob to turn it. Kristin ------- Re: Accessories Wanted Posted by: "Stephen Ellacott" sellacottx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 10:26 am ((PDT)) Hi Jack, I use these tap guides: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD &PMPXNO=5810006&PMAKA=325-4921 http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD &PMPXNO=5810007&PMAKA=325-4922 They work very well in the drill press but with a chuck in the tail stock they are a bit large for the Lathe and mill. I drilled (Q) through, and tapped the caps 3/8-24 so they can mount directly to the tailstock or the 3/8-24 drill chuck arbour for the mill. Works great with the T-handle to provide leverage and you can keep advancing the tailstock as you tap. Regards, Stephen ------- Re: Accessories Wanted Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 11:26 am ((PDT)) Is your lathe bolted to a bench? Otherwise it is pretty straightforward to pick it up and turn it 180 degrees. ------- Re: Accessories Wanted Posted by: "Stephen Ellacott" sellacottx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 2:17 pm ((PDT)) Hi Jack, I don't know if anyone makes the spindle but here is a $2 solution: 1 - Buy a 2" 3/4-16 bolt ($2) 2 - Remove the jaws from your 4-Jaw chuck and mount it on the lathe 3 - Screw the bolt into the front of the chuck until it bottoms out 4 - Part off its head and face it (Carefully! Don't go past center!) 5 - Turn down the exposed shaft to 1/2" or 3/8" 6 - Unscrew it from the chuck and cut a Weldon flat on it using the mill if you want to use it in an end mill holder or just chuck it directly in the drill press. It takes longer to drive to the hardware store than it takes to make it... Regards, Stephen ------- Home-brew endmill holder [taigtools] Posted by: "gehaddad" gehaddadx~xxhotmail.com Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 12:59 pm ((PST)) I'm planning to make a home-brew endmill holder a la Taig's own blank arbor. Does anyone know the basic dimensions of Taig's arbor? Depth of threaded bore? Have some threads been removed to make a seat? Hold endmill with a radial set screw? Thanks, George ------- Re: Home-brew endmill holder Posted by: "Shad" shendersonx~xxthegeekgroup.org Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 1:33 pm ((PST)) Hi All, George, Went that route myself. I just screwed the blank arbor onto the spindle and hand snugged it. Faced the end, spotted, drilled, then bored to the proper size. I used a V block on the drill press to drill and tap a hole for a setscrew. 3/8x16 grub screw, IIRC Either mill flats for a wrench, or drill some holes for a spanner so you can unscrew the darn thing!!! As always, be aware of what you're doing. Endmills are sharp. I usually toss a shop rag over mine while it's on the spindle and I'm working around it, then remove the rag as the last thing I do before powering up the spindle. Hope it helps! Shad H ------- Re: Home-brew endmill holder Posted by: "Stephen Ellacott" sellacottx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 1:38 pm ((PST)) Hi George: Here are the basic dimensions for the Taig blank arbor for the lathe (not ER16): OAL: 1.985" Dia: 1" Depth of Counter bore: .825" Unthreaded top of Counter bore: .190" Length of threaded portion: .425" (approx) Number of threads: 8 And yes, use a set screw positioned to engage the Weldon flat on the end mill. 8-32 or thereabouts is a good size for the screw. Regards, Stephen ------- Re: Home-brew endmill holder Posted by: "kd006" kd006x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 2:36 pm ((PST)) "gehaddad" wrote: > Thanks, that's plenty of info to make the tool. George: In addition they are made of 12L14 steel as I recall so you don't have too much trouble machining them. Kristin ------- Re: Home-brew endmill holder Posted by: "Don Rogers" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:37 am ((PST)) I made a couple of the end mill holders as described. One is going to have to be rebored up to 0.5000" as I missed the 0.375 by about a thousandth and the set screw for a lock really causes the mill to wobble around. I bought an Er-16 adaptor from Nick and a set of ER-16 collets from Ebay for $47.50 including shipping. What a difference. No more whopp whopp whopp when cutting, just a nice steady buzz. And I have collets for any size mill up to the 3/8". Great combo. Don ------- Re: Home-brew endmill holder Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Nov 3, 2009 11:13 am ((PST)) I bought one of them too - I love it. My set-up has some unique problems, but one of them is solved by the ER holder. I load it with a 1/8" collet and I put a stainless rod that I have ground to a needle point (one of these days, I'll get a real needle and a smaller collet). I put a corresponding 1/8" tapered rod in the Wolfgang spindle and use a pocket microscope to jog them into being point to point. Then I unplug my Y-axis and I am guaranteed to be centered on my A-axis. I also use the same set-up to set the X,Y,Z of the boring bar. From that point I can scribe complex boring routines with CNC. Once the DRO is set, I swap chucks and the parts line up perfectly. Be careful with the 3/8" collets -- the gullet won't pass a 3/8" tool. ------- Lathe / Mill combo [taigtools] Posted by: "Johnny" EDAVIS93x~xxComcast.Net Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:21 pm ((PST)) I am considering the purchace of a new taig lathe bed with the attached power feed assymbly. This would give me a chance to use the original bed that came with my lathe for other purposes. I am sure that many have considerd this but, it came to me that I may be able to mount the old bed on my taig mill table and use it with my original headstock for required mill work. Say I want to cut a gear or clock wheel. I could turn the blank on the lathe, remove the entire headstock from the lathe with blank undesturbed and mount it on the lathe bed mounted on the mill for indexing work. I would think that I could also do light milling on stock or even attach the headstock to a right angle plate for drilling holes that require indexing. All of this without disturbing the truth of the stock turned in the lathe. The process would seem to be far less work than setting up my rotary table to get the same results. Can anyone comment on this? Has anyone tried the same setup. Johnny ------- Re: Lathe / Mill combo Posted by: "Peter Homann" groupsx~xxhomanndesigns.com Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:21 pm ((PST)) Hi Johnny, I'm currently in the process of doing this. I have: 1. an A2ZCNC TPT3_5X18 tooling plate, 2. Four of the 200-48 Taig Headstock mounting plates 3. A Taig Lathe Headstock. 5. A Taig Lathe tailstock 6. CNCDrive Dugong servo drive 7. Keling 90V 7.8A NEMA 34 DC servo I'm mounting the 4 Taig mounting plates to the tooling plate to make a dovetail bed for the headstock and tailstock. If I was up to it I could make the dovetail bed, but a good dovetail cutter would probably cost more than the plates. It would also be possible to use just one for the headstock, and 2 for the tailstock. I've noticed that Taig also has a tooling plate that is 14" long. This could also be used and it has holes at 1" centres that match the headstock mounting plates. So I might get one of those. With the A2Z tooling plate https://www.a2zcorp.us/store I'm going to have to drill and tap the the headstock mounting plate holes. I also plan to attach a fence to the underside of the tooling plate. This will fit into the centre T-slot of the mill bed and provide x_axis alignment when mounting the whole assembly to the mill. I'll then use a Keling KL34-180-90 DC servo motor to drive the spindle. http://www.kelinginc.net/ServoMotors.html I still have to find an appropriate set of tooled pulleys and belt. Max speed of the motor is 3200rpm, so I may reduce it via a 2:1 pulley set. The motor shaft is 1/2" diameter and the Headstock is 5/8" from memory. If anyone knows of a source of suitable pulleys, it would be appreciated. The motor will be mounted via the normal mill spindle motor mount arrangement. I'll use a CNCDrive Dugong servo drive http://www.cncdrive.com to run the motor. The lathe tooling bit holders will be mounted to the Mill Headstock. I haven't sorted this yet but it shouldn't be too difficult. I got the idea from a similar project by Steve Simpson on the machsupport group at; http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,11422.0.html I wanted to use ready made parts wherever possible rather than fabricating everything. As always my machining projects take forever to complete. :( Cheers, Peter http://www.homanndesigns.com ------- Re: Lathe / Mill combo Posted by: "Johnny" EDAVIS93x~xxComcast.Net Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:54 pm ((PST)) Hi Peter. It sounds like we are on the same basic page with this thing except I am utilizing an entire taig lathe bed with its stand. On it will only be mounted the headstock, indexing plates and tailstock if needed. All my work is done manual and without the magic of cnc. The setup will simply povided me with a means of quickly moving from lathe work to mill work while utilizing one taig heagstock. I don't think I will have any problems removing the headstock from the lathe with work in tow and placing it on the lathe bed on the mill. I would think that the only thing that I will have to do to make sure that all is true on the mill after placing the headstock on the mill lathe bed is a prior dial reading of the lathe bed along the X axis. No "Y" or "Z" dial checks would need to be made. That is if all checks out on first use. Just slap the head on the lathe and mahine away. I have a very bad spinal problem and need to limit any twisting and bending that I can. Setting my rotary table square always seems very time consuming. Especially if a tail stock is needed along with the rotary table. Johnny ------- Re: Lathe / Mill combo Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:22 pm ((PST)) My Taig lathe is mounted in front of an X/Y/Z mill table. I can turn the lathe with a stepper (resolution of 1/100 degree)(4th axis) or turn it with a Penn States variable speed motor (by swapping out the swing-arms)(now it is a lathe). The mill spindle mount is a taig dovetail. In my photos, it is set up with a Wolfgang spindle. This allows me to do 4 axis CNC with end mills down to .003" or swap out the spindle head with the ER16 head, and mill up to 3/8" end mills (or fly cutters). The way it is in the photo, it can take 18 hours to mill the surface of an object no bigger than your thumb. When I want to mill in 3 axis' only, I unbolt the angle plate assembly, and mount it on the backside of the main X/Y plate. There is plenty of room in back to mill with up to 7" by 12" parts (with 6 inches of Z travel) and resolution of .0001" or better. I have a variety of XML files for Mach3 that tell the machine how it is configured. I can mill like any other mill, but I designed it for ultra-precise surface modeling of wax for lost wax casting. I make sewing thimbles -- but can also make belt buckles up to Hulk Hogan 7 by 12 muthers) I can still use the lathe just like Taig intended, with all of the accessories. I can use the standard Taig head, or the ER16 head. It is kinda hard to see in the pictures, but the X/Y table is fitted with a 1/2" plate of aluminum drilled to be an adjustable toolpost mount (I mount my A2Z quick change toolpost). This allows the plate to mimic the Taig cross-slide. I can mount boring bars, cut-off tools, threading tools, or simple indexable cutters and operate them with Mach3 mill. The toolpost plate is long enough to extend beyond the lathe (much the same as the Taig cross-slide), but when extended that far, I have resonance problems (chatter) (am considering replacing it with 1" steel). If turning wax, no resonance -- smooth as a babies bottom. The boring bar can be mounted and operated normally, but I find that extending the toolpost holder only an inch or so, I get rock-steady tools. Bear in mind, that in the "rear toolpost" configuration the cutters need to be mounted upside down. Using G-code and Mach3, I can plot an EXACT taper or curve on the surface of a turned object (up to the length of the lathe) or a perfect taper, curve or thread on the inside of a turned object, (using a boring bar) up to the throat diameter limitations of the Taig lathe. What is it? 4 inches or so? The real beauty of the system is that I can mix lathe operations, and mill operations. This means that I can use the lathe as a lathe, or as a 4th axis. Turn cylinders -- then engrave the surface. I knocked out some samples (sewing thimbles - 1" tall) and have included them with the photos of the mill/lathe combination. Typically a lathe like this is called a "slantbed" lathe -- but mine is on a flat bed (because I still want to use it as a mill) (on the back 40) -- so I call it a no-slant lathe. Photo Albums > anchornm noslant lathe ------- Re: Lathe / Mill combo Posted by: "Johnny" EDAVIS93x~xxComcast.Net Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:18 pm ((PST)) Will: Wow. Looks good. Johnny ------- Re: Lathe / Mill combo Posted by: "Rick Reyes" aztaigx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:47 pm ((PST)) Check out what I did on mine at taigownersclub.forumotion.net I mounted at stepper to a headstock and mounted dovetailed plates to the mill table for the headstock and tailstock. Rick ------- Re: Lathe / Mill combo Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:37 pm ((PST)) Hi Peter - Taig sell the dovetail plate in longer lengths - I believe the pool cue turning enthusiasts use it to make long-bed lathes. Or you could of course remove the steel bed plate from a standard Taig lathe & mount it directly onto the mill bed. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Lathe / Mill combo Posted by: "Johnny" EDAVIS93x~xxComcast.Net Date: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:25 am ((PST)) Hi Tony. I know that you have made extensive use of the taig headstock via your book and site writeup on your wheel cutting engine. When utilizing the headstock as a indexing device for milling purposes, such as cutting a flat, should I have any concerns about damage to headstock spindle or bearings. That is, when taking .010 to .020 cuts on mild steel will the force of the endmill bearing down on the spindle be too great. Johnny ------- home made powerfeed finished [taigtools] Posted by: "pe3hmp" pe3hmpx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:06 am ((PST)) Well the powerfeed is finished; I still have to make a dc power supply from 2V dc to 6V dc 500mA but that is not a problem. Video of me making a cut with the powerfeed at the slowest speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjTpY9cbW48 The cost for this (not including hours spent): 9 euros for the motor, the gears came out of an old Makita hand drill so that was 0 euros, the scrap plexiglass was free too, the bearings cost me 50 cents (for two) bought at a local flea market, screws and bushings were free too, the pinion gear was 3 euros -- so total cost was 12.50 euros, or about 19 dollars. The power supply will be made out of scrap stuff too so that will probably cost me next to nothing. Mark ------- NOTE TO FILE: The videos in the next message give a much clearer view of Mark's modification. ------- Re: lead screw [taigtools] Posted by: "pe3hmp" pe3hmpx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:22 pm ((PST)) I made my own electric powerfeed, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORdDZSyqqHI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnCIn3t8nTA slowest speed is 2.7 rpm and fastest is 8.6 rpm, that should give me a feedrate between 40mm and 129mm per minute independent from the spindle speed. Mark ------- Mounting mill on rubber? [taigtools] Posted by: "Mike Nicewonger" twmasterx~xxtwmaster.com Date: Fri Apr 9, 2010 4:05 pm ((PDT)) I'm finally in a position where I can build new workbenches in my garage. Is it a good idea to mount a thin pad of rubber (think something like a mouse pad thick) between the base of the machine and the workbench? Mike N ------- Re: Mounting mill on rubber? Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Fri Apr 9, 2010 4:23 pm ((PDT)) I have my mills bolted to large pieces of scrap plate and the plate sits on rubber sheets. The plates are not bolted to the benchtop. The mills don't move and there is no vibration transmitted to the table. See our homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html [later message] 1" thick aluminum (they were old tooling plates) and 3/4" thick steel. Like I said, they were scrap so not expensive. You could probably achieve the same thing with a stack of plywood screwed and glued together. Heavy and wide. ------- Project Photos [taigtools] Posted by: "kiheiman_98" kiheimanx~xxq.com Date: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:06 pm ((PDT)) I had always wanted a Unimat lathe since the early 60s, but never could come up with $100 to purchase one. Now I have the money and see that good units are going for $800 to $1000 on eBay. I decided I did not want to spend that kind of money for something that was 40 years old. So I found the Taig unit - the factory is about 5 miles from my house. I just completed three projects: replace the thumb screws with knobs and knurled posts add an extension to the tail stock lever add a tool drawer under the lathe build a storage box similar to the ones that came with the Unimat. You can see the pictures of the completed work under "Kiheiman" in the photo section. The completed package, in the storage box, weighs about 52 pounds. Now I can get back to the real work of making parts for my RC helicopters. ------- Round belts [taigtools] Posted by: "Mike Nicewonger" twmasterx~xxtwmaster.com Date: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:42 am ((PDT)) Today I had a couple pieces of machinery come into my hands that have pulleys run by round rubber belts. As I'm hoping to get around to installing a DC drive setup on my mill in the next few weeks these parts had me wondering if something like this would work well on my mill. I have a nice Glanze 6MM profiling tool that seems like it would be perfect to make grooves in pulleys for 1/4" round belts. This would simplify my drive setup. So, is there any glaring reason not to use round belts? Any caveats that need to be understood in advance? Thanks. Mike N ------- Re: Round belts Posted by: "Paul W. Chamberlain Sr." pwcx~xxhughes.net Date: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:41 am ((PDT)) Round belts work fine, but usually run in "V" grooves to provide the needed "grip" so there is no belt slipping. Try to avoid the temptation to use large O-rings... they tend to have a "springy" behavior. Fusible poly belting is better. Cut to length for about 5% stretch, heat the ends with a non-carbonizing flame, then press the ends together. After cooling, trim any flash, and it's ready to go. Or get round belting ready made: http://www.durabelt.com/roundoringinfo.php I used a Sherline 10,000 rpm motor/pulley set on my mill. Sherline uses 2L belts. http://www.mechanicalphilosopher.com/pcham13.jpg Specs for making 2L pulleys can be found here: http://www.gates.com/designview/bisweb/BISWeb.asp?PN=8400-0120 Paul, Central OR ------- Re: Round belts Posted by: "Stan Stocker" skstockerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:44 am ((PDT)) Hi folks: The easiest way I know of to join poly belts cleanly is to hold a palette knife in a vise. Heat the blade gently (I use a alcohol lamp, being a clock guy I have one) and place the cleanly cut ends on either side of the blade. When the material starts to melt slide the belt off the side of the blade so the ends meet. This gives a minimal bulge if you don't get things silly molten and quite good alignment as you eyeball the belt alignment as you heat rather than just as you squish the melted ends together. Clean up with a single edge razor blade and you're all set. Cheers, Stan ------- Re: Round belts Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:05 am ((PDT)) I am a locksmith by trade. I have many machines that run on o-rings -- I only had one break in 35 years. I went to the o-ring house, and bought a new one -- told the guy to give me two (so I had a backup). He said that I would be retired by the time that one is dead. As for cutting, joining and so forth -- WHY???? -- Just go to the store, and buy the right size. My high speed spindles run on o-rings -- they are tiny. THOSE will need monthly replacement -- the reason is that they are right in the breeze coming off of the motor, and the ozone kills them. I have heard that armor all helps, but WHY??? -- Just have $5.00 worth of them in a ziplock bag next to the replacement set screws. ------- Re: Round belts Posted by: "Stan Stocker" skstockerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:07 am ((PDT)) Hi Will, If your tools don't require spindle removal to change drive belts your approach works well. I wouldn't use fusible belting in such an application either unless the particular length was silly hard to find. Even then, as you did, what the heck, find it, buy two, let your heirs figure out what to do with the spare :-) But jewelers' lathes and some other machines aren't so nice, and I can fuse up a belt a whole lot faster than I can tear down a headstock, fit a belt, put it all back together, and get things set just right. Given that the belts last darn near indefinitely, and the raw stock is cheap, why go through all the hassle? It's also worth remembering that not all of us live within a reasonably convenient distance from an industrial supply house that stocks a wide range of products. I can get crappy ChiCom belting / O rings at the bigboxstore, but the nearest industrial supply quality hardware or bearing house is 45 minutes away, and anything oddball will be special order even then. Take care, Stan ------- How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? [taigtools] Posted by: "Jack" tech.writerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 10:10 am ((PST)) I'm using a Dremel 9909 pointed carbide burr on my mill to engrave letters in aluminum panels. The results are excellent in terms of parts quality, but the relatively slow spindle speed of the Taig creates a few issues. One is the inordinately long time to complete the work, because FPM must be severely limited. There's also a lot of flash created around the cuts, and I believe a faster tool speed would help with that. Does anyone know if there's an easy way to mount a Dremel or other high- speed rotary tool to the Taig, in place of the spindle? One of Nick's blogs shows an adapter for the lathe, but I don't remember seeing anything for the mill. ------- Re: How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? Posted by: "Ken Cline" clinex~xxfrii.com Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 10:26 am ((PST)) Dremel tools have threaded caps. Remove the cap and you can screw on a mounting bracket. My bracket is simply a standard nut welded to a piece of angle iron. Keep in mind that Dremel brand tools have terrible runout (mine has .010" of play in the bearings) and are not a good choice for precise milling. (I only use the Dremel occasionally as a toolpost grinder on the lathe.) An engraving cutter designed for aluminum should help with your finish quality. Ken ------- Re: How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? Posted by: "Ron Thompson" bareboogerx~xxcfl.rr.com Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 11:36 am ((PST)) I made one for my Sherline: http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/mycnc.htm Ron Thompson On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, USA ------- Re: How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? Posted by: "Jack" tech.writerx~xxearthlink.net Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 1:20 pm ((PST)) That's too much runout for what I'm doing. Guess I need to consider the cost of a better tool than Dremel, or maybe just suffer with the speed issue. Engraving is a small portion of the work I'm doing with the mill, but it's turning out to be much more time consuming than I expected. I also probably should have mentioned earlier that I'm not running the fastest pulley step. Should I worry about running the Taig spindle for extended periods at 10K RPM? ------- Re: How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? Posted by: "Jeff Demand" jdemandx~xxgmavt.net Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 3:22 pm ((PST)) Two comments... 10K for 30 hours and no bodies here, just makes a bit more noise and probably eats belts faster. Proxxon makes a nice Dremel clone for 3X the price. I'm not quite good enough to measure the runout, my dad's Dremel only requires a yard stick. jeffD ------- Re: How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? Posted by: "Dean" deanofidx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 3:44 pm ((PST)) Here, this guy makes a high speed spindle for the Taig. Pretty good price, too. http://www.angelfire.com/az2/proff/index.html Dean ------- Re: How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 3:47 pm ((PST)) Look at the bottom of this page for the 3 speed spindles: http://www.cnconabudget.com/ Paul made all 3 of my spindles, and a couple of custom parts that I dreamed up -- I couldn't be happier. Trust me -- I run these things day and night for 4 days straight -- the only gripe I have is that they don't have two set screws. He has a dovetail that mounts right up to a taig dovetail. Works great Tell Paul I sent you. ------- Re: How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? Posted by: "Rick Reyes" aztaigx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 6, 2010 7:50 pm ((PST)) You can use a Foredom flexshaft. They make units that go up to 30k. The mount wouldn't be very much trouble to make. ------- Re: How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? Posted by: "Don Rogers" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com campgems Date: Tue Dec 7, 2010 1:54 pm ((PST)) A while back I was looking for a solution to a cheap high speed spindle that would hold up. Harbor Freight had a roto tool that spun right at 30K and would take a 1/8" or ¼" shank. It was something like $25. Ball bearing spindle also. I bought one and while I have yet to mount it on the mill, I played with a small carbide drill, about 0.010" diameter and I was able to plunge and cut a circle out of a piece of 1/8" lite ply without breaking the drill. This was holding the motor between my knees and holding the ply in my hands. It runs very true with the 1/8" collet. I haven't tried the ¼" one yet. It had to run true to not shatter that drill. I finally broke it when I made the feed too fast. It would cut full 1/8" deep at an acceptable feed though. Poor mans laser.. My plan was to use the small drills as mills for cutting model airplane parts. I still need to make the router table to do the work for the bigger parts, but that motor on the mill should do just fine for engraving. Dremel bits are not designed for center cutting, so you need a tool that is. The little broken carbide drills give you a good piece of rough stock for making your own D bits for engraving. Don ------- Re: How to Mount a Dremel to the Mill? Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Dec 7, 2010 4:39 pm ((PST)) The Dremel or the Harbor Freight tool will work just fine at 1/8", but at .005" the runout is 5 times the diameter of the tool -- it will vaporize. Put those tools in the shed for sharpening lawn mower blades. ------- Re: How to mount a dremel to the mill Posted by: "Andrew Werby" andrewx~xxcomputersculpture.com awerby Date: Wed Dec 8, 2010 11:41 am ((PST)) > The little broken carbide drills give you a good piece of rough stock for > making your own D bits for engraving. I don't think you'll have much luck using a drill bit as an endmill. While they may resemble each other superficially, the flutes on an endmill are designed for cutting, while those on a drill bit are just intended for conveying chips upward. Broken pieces of carbide might work better if you grind away half on the diameter, but you'll need a diamond grinding wheel for that. Andrew Werby www.computersculpture.com ------- Re: How to mount a dremel to the mill Posted by: "Jeff Demand" jdemandx~xxgmavt.net Date: Wed Dec 8, 2010 12:38 pm ((PST)) Andrew: True, drills don't cut on the side. I make cheap ball end mills from even new drills, cobalt my choice for stiffness and durability. Shorten them, grind a ball end (or longer), lots of relief and thin the web. Voila... cheap centre cutting mill with a DOC = to the length of the ball. A steady hand and aim for both flutes being symmetrical. Mess up and just keep grinding. Cheap 1" diamond disks from the likes of horrible freight in a flex shaft or dremel like tool. I don't use them often in metal but for softer stuff just fine. 5 minutes on a $1.50 drill is better for me than the price of carbide. jeffD ------- Re: New TAIG Spindle Motor [taigtools] Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:28 am ((PST)) I'd have to agree with you. Here's a photo of my Sher-Taig Mill: http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq28/LBakeland/shertaigmill.jpg The Sherline motor and controller are worth every penny extra that I've paid, and more. It uses the ultra reliable "Made in USA" Leeson motor and controller. The Penn State unit is cheap, because it's "Made in China." Sherline has used the current motor-controller combination for over 15 years, now. It has a tremendously reliable track record. On my Sherline lathe used in my low production shop for three years, the brushes show almost no wear. If you ever reviewed the Chinese Harbor Freight Sieg mini-lathe Group, you'd see the many issues with the controller boards and motors. I'd pay the freight and stick with Good Ole "Made in USA." My thoughts, Leo ------- Adapting the Sherline motor to the Taig Mill Posted by: "Andrew Werby" andrewx~xxcomputersculpture.com Date: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:23 pm ((PST)) Hi Leo; I'd like to do that myself, for some foreign customers who can't use the standard Taig-supplied motors due to the incompatibility of their mains current with the Taig motor's 110v 60hz current requirements. Could you go into a little more detail about how you accomplished this? It seems like I'd need to make a new motor plate that fits the Sherline motor, and a bushing that lets the Sherline spindle pulley fit the Taig shaft (which is smaller than its bore). Is that how you did it, or did you take a different approach? Is there anything else you needed to do? Any light you'd care to shed on the process would help, and some pictures would be great. Andrew Werby www.computersculpture.com ------- Re: Adapting the Sherline motor to the Taig Mill Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:55 pm ((PST)) Andrew - I adapted a Sherline motor/controller to my Taig many years ago; the standard Taig motor plate can be adapted by drilling at the right centers for the motor mounting screws, and I chose to use the standard Taig pulley set rather than the Sherline one that came with the motor. You have to machine up an adapter to match the motor spindle to the Taig pulley bore, but that is all. The result really is worth the cost & effort; the Sherline motor/controller is excellent and once you have used it you won't want to return to a fixed speed motor. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Adapting the Sherline motor to the Taig Mill Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:51 pm ((PST)) Andrew: All of the Sherline components fit both the newer Taig headstocks and the ER16 Taig mills with the T-slot on the side with no modification. The only part that needed to be machined was the Sherline spindle pulley. It needed to be bored out to 0.617 inches. I did the second conversion by boring the pulley to 0.620 inches for removal and reinstallation without heating the pulley to access the spindle preload nut. To compensate for the looser fit, I made a bushing 9/32 inch thick, one inch in diameter and 0.620 ID to place under the pulley on the spindle. The Taig's radius to the mounting surface is 1/8 inch longer. The mounting slots with the OEM Sherline belt fits perfectly. Hope this helps, Leo ------- Re: My New Starter Mill - 2018ER some questions [taigtools] Posted by: "lhbakeland" digitaltorquex~xxaol.com Date: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:26 pm ((PST)) The locking plate that holds the milling head is locked onto the dovetail mounting plate with only one socket headed capscrew. When I got my first 2018ER, I found out the hard way by ruining a really expensive workpiece, that the screw loosens with vibration due to regular mill operation. When loosened, the mill head drops down and ruins the workpiece. To prevent this from happening again, I made a plate mounted by holes through the bottom mounting screws of the dovetail plate that stops the bottom travel of the milling head, even when the dovetail locking plate loosens due to vibration. This stop plate, made from scrap aluminum, should have been supplied with the mill. The surplus 1/5 hp capacitor start AC motor supplied with the 2018ER mill, while works, leaves a lot to be desired. My mill is mounted to a workshop table trough bolted through the base mounting holes. The vibration was so bad that the 3/4 inch MDFB tabletop vibrated like a drum head. Parts, tools and other objects place on the table top would "walk off" and fall to the floor. After my Sherline motor and controller conversion, noted in another thread, the vibration problem has been totally solved. My findings, Leo p.s. It might be overkill, but I'm considering the used of two angle plates (one above and one below) mounted with two each of the mounting screws and a couple of bolts through and between the legs of the spindle head mounting to increase rigidity of the unit. I have terrible thoughts on how the dropping head problem would be devastating in a CNC machine that keeps on running. It would likely destroy or mangle the workpiece and even the milling table. ------- Improvements to top slide? [taigtools] Posted by: "Jeff Wood" mr.byte.2000x~xxgmail.com Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:30 am ((PDT)) Has anyone ever made/improved on the Taig top-slide? I don't have one as yet, but I read somewhere that it's prone to losing a set angle during use. Or am I jumping at shadows? Jeff ------- Re: Improvements to top slide? Posted by: "pe3hmp" pe3hmpx~xxhotmail.com Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:36 am ((PDT)) Put a little piece of paper under it before clamping down; you can also make some extra clamps to prevent it from moving. Mark ------- Re: Improvements to top slide? Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:39 am ((PDT)) It is certainly ripe for improvement -- the clamping system is fiddly to use and (as you say) is prone to slipping. I started thinking about a design for a replacement some years ago but I didn't finish it I'm afraid. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Improvements to top slide? Posted by: "Rick Kernell" rickk1x~xxcableone.net Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:18 pm ((PDT)) Jeff, I had the same experience. I made a modification to lock down the compound and it is very rigid. Look under "Rick Kernell" on Nick Carter's Pictures page. Rick Kernell ------- Re: Improvements to top slide? Posted by: "Lewis Hein" lheinx~xxvcn.com Date: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:57 am ((PDT)) The Taig top slide works just fine if you don't take too heavy a cut with it and if you tighten it with the short arm of the allen wrench in the head of the bolt. At least, I've never had much trouble with it slipping. Lewis Hein ------- Re: Taig CNC [taigtools] Posted by: "Lester Caine" lesterx~xxlsces.co.uk lscesuk Date: Tue May 8, 2012 11:26 pm ((PDT)) alighazizadeh wrote: > By the way I purchased an mt2 arbor for a Taig lathe, and Arc rotary table from you some time ago and it is a cracker, though a touch expensive. I wonder if you could get hold of the same quality arbor for a Sherline lathe at all? The same 3/4 16 but without the shoulder, register of the Taig lathe. < That one started life as one of these http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Blank-End-Arbors and John Stevenson machined them up for me. I should be able to machine them myself which would be cheaper, but the 3in1 lathe I have is just not stable enough on the thread turning :( So if you can turn one yourself ... Lester Caine - G8HFL Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ------- Taig Mounting Plates [taigtools] Posted by: "Ken" kvaughanx~xxacsalaska.net Date: Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:19 am ((PDT)) Have not seen reference here to these. Bonnie Klein produced a woodturning microlathe in the later 80s using a taig headstock and tailstock with a custom bed, She also produced a wood threading jig based on a Taig compound and cross slide. She still sells the mounting plates -- taig bed profile with screw holes for mounting in anodized aluminum. I use some of these for mounting taig headstocks or compounds for other purposes. Not having a mill, I have purchased rather than producing these with lathe milling. http://www.bonnieklein.com/turning-products-list Ken in Juneau ------- Re: Taig Mounting Plates Posted by: "Jake Horky" jacob.horkyx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:27 am ((PDT)) Thanks for passing along the facts on the Bonnie Klein lathe - I find tool history interesting. Taig makes a similar mounting plate which is a part for their mill. I got mine from Nick, but you can get it most places: http://www.a2zcorp.us/store/ProductDetailNP.asp?Cguid={6300AAFA-1FA C-4B84-8FD9-185EDBADB805}&ProductID=4601&Category=Taig:Accessory%20Mill Jake ------- Penn State Motor noise [taigtools] Posted by: "brewbob90" brewbobx~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:56 am ((PDT)) My Taig uses a Penn State motor. I have modified the controller with a switch to reverse the rotation for some applications. In forward rotation at low speeds I hear sort of a clicking sound in the motor. Seems to dissapear at higher speeds. If I reverse the rotation, the clicking noise seems to increase...ie louder and still clicks even at higher speeds. At first I thought it was the brushes. I took one out, looks fine. Tightening the brush springs doesnt seem to change the noise. Any idea what that noise is? Should I worry about it? Thanks ------- Re: Penn State Motor noise Posted by: "george" mndzbluex~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:29 am ((PDT)) Marathon motor to my understanding has a clutch, so it sounds different during manual rotation and first when you turn it off. Same noises all the time if predictable should be ok. It's when the sounds begin to change or get louder that you need to investigate. ------- Re: Penn State Motor noise Posted by: "DennisF MacIntyre" a1g2r3ix~xxyahoo.ca Date: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:17 am ((PDT)) Dear Brewbob90 May I suggest you understand it, and then act accordingly. When you removed a brush did you notice if it was placed at 90* to the commutator? If it was, you may be okay. If not, it could be a problem. Let me explain: If the brush is at at less of a slope than 90* it is not a problem when the motor rotates the one way, but should you reverse the motor, this may create a potential problem in that the sharp edge of the brush now has the potential of digging in and removing one of the segments of the commutator part of the armature, as it turns. Whenever I have cause to remove a motor's brushes, I always take a file and remove the sharp edge. I do this just in case I accidentally put the brush in backwards. I only put it back if I decide it still has some life in it. You also need to decide if the clicking occurs as the motor changes from being powered by its starting windings or its higher running windings. Do you notice if the click coincides with a change in distance of the pulley to the motor body? keep smiling dennis mac ------- Re: Penn State Motor noise Posted by: "chuck" chuckelsx~xxverizon.net Date: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:13 pm ((PDT)) Dennis, just one small correction. If he's working with a brushed motor (DC or Universal) there are no starting windings. Starting and running windings are in AC split phase or capacitor start motors. Unless you're playing with an old 1940s repulsion start induction run. just my 2 cents. Chuck ------- Adding extra Z height ? [taigtools] Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:48 pm ((PDT)) I seem to remember a few weeks or so back that some one, Tony Jeffree maybe, posted that for additional Z height that they moved the Z ways up one set of screws. I can't find that post so could someone refresh my memory on that. The reason I'm curious is that I've run into an issue that I need a couple of extra inches of height, and slipping the Z ways up a notch may just be enough. The other thought was to make a 8" long tool steel dove tail to replace the aluminum one that would allow one to just move the head stock up and down. Don ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:06 am ((PDT)) That might work, but getting the spindle aligned with the z-axis might be a headache. I guess you could put a piece of 3/8" drill rod in a collet and indicate off of that while moving the head up and down. Why tool steel? That seems like it would be extremely expensive. ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "ddi92234x~xxaol.com" Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:41 am ((PDT)) Maybe contact TAIG and see if they have longer aluminum dovetail stock? Maybe they mill long pieces and then cut them to length? ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Alex Wetmore" alexx~xxphred.org Date: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:22 pm ((PDT)) It's easy and only takes about 10 minutes. Just pull the Z and reinstall it with the way moved up by one bolt hole. One issue is that you'll lose a bit of range at the other end and won't be able to get short tools in collets all the way down to the table. alex ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:15 pm ((PDT)) That was the first thought, but seeing as the Z ways are not keyed or pinned to the column, you would need to re tram the head after the move. However, when I had the ways off a couple days ago and was putting them back, I couldn't feel much "wiggle" when the screws were all in, and before they were tight. With a long dove tail though, the tram issue should go away. The downside to this would be the cost of getting one ground accurately. If it wasn't an accurate ground piece little would be gained from moving the ways. On the rigidity issue with moving the Z ways up a hole set, I'm not sure how much of a problem this might be. In the stock position, I can get almost 0.002" movement on the dial when gently pushing or pulling on the Z stepper. This is with an indicator based on the table and reading the Z slide. Not arguing, just trying to explore the possibilities so I can make the best choice for me. I know, a nice Bridgeport would solve all these problems, but the wife complains about the electric bill when I've been using the heater in the garage, think what she would think of the a 3 phase converter running the Bridgeport. Don ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:25 pm ((PDT)) Steve Wan wrote: > Hi Don > Another way make a steel bracket to hold both with an extension. Hence > you will not loose the rigidity rather to loose out a pair of bolts. Steve, can you explain this a bit more, I'm having trouble grasping your idea, but it sounds like it may hold promise. Don ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Steve Wan" stewanx~xxgmail.com Date: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:53 pm ((PDT)) Hi Don Simply use a 10mm plate and drill/tap number of holes required. If you need to be perfectly level, could use a dial before you drill the final hole to tap. Meaning a thick steel plate holding both the mill column and the z-axis bed. In our hobby, I always try to make simple solutions to complicated problems and save cost. Not all jobs need a big machine like bridgeport... I have my tiny Sherline mill and lathe...so far not many jobs are farmed out to be made. Today I managed to extend my small drill press to drill jobs that are far too tall. Just swivel away the drilling support plate and place a steel plate at the base with varies ht. column to bolt tight. Place the long drill into the semi drilled hole and tighten the chuck and slowly raise the base plate at each section. This way I can make deep holes drilling anytime :) Steve W. ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:23 am ((PDT)) On 29 June 2012, Don wrote: > I seem to remember a few weeks or so back that some one, Tony Jeffree > maybe, posted that for additional Z height that they moved the Z ways up > one set of screws. I can't find that post so could someone refressh my > memory on that. Yes, I have certainly mentioned that approach on here before now. I found that the ways mounted nicely, with very little opportunity for misalignment, when I did this, and actually I haven't gotten around to putting it back to normal yet. If you are working within the normal envelope you don't reduce rigidity at all by having the extra height, however, as the ways are not supported by the column at the highest part of the movement, you have to be aware that the rigidity will be reduced. There's an opportunity here for Taig to develop a "long column" version - having the extra height is really useful sometimes. Of course, the ideal source of a steel dovetail would be a Taig lathe bed...the aluminium dovetail is identical in dimensions apart from the length...maybe Taig would sell you one, minus the aluminium support/foot etc. They also sell the aluminium dovetail section in longer lengths for people that want to make specials - you could buy a length of that & mount it on a back plate of 1/4" steel for extra stiffness? Regards, Tony ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Steve Wan" stewanx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:04 am ((PDT)) Hi Tony Anyway to take a photo of your temp.mounting plate with the Z axis? Am sure most helpful for Don, I can apply your idea to my Sherline too! Steve W ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:40 am ((PDT)) Hi Steve - I didn't make a mounting plate - that was another post - I just moved the ways up one bolt position. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:02 am ((PDT)) Tony, thanks for clearing up you Z height adjustment. Your idea of seeing if Taig would sell just the steel lathe dovetail is a good idea. It is thicker than the aluminum plates the head mounts on so there would be an additional stiffness there as well as much better precision on the dovetail. The aluminum ones leave a lot to be desired. I'll check with Nick to see if he can get one for me. On the rigidity of the Z, there is more deflection normally than I like. Using a fish scale, 5 lbs of pull or push on the top of the Z stepper motor will result in 0.0005" deflection at the bottom of the travel. I went out to check out the top deflection only to find my Mach 3 had taken a hit of some sort and I lost all of my setup, including step and direction pins on the Parallel port. Another problem for another group though. Don ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:07 am ((PDT)) Paul, once the dove tail was aligned to the Z travel, you could move the head top to bottom without losing alignment. Same as the lathe carriage moving on the bed. Tony's idea of the lathe ways is one I'm following up on. Don ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:11 am ((PDT)) The beds are machined after assembly with the concrete, so you can't just get the steel dovetail piece unfortunately. Learn more about us at http://www.nickandfelice.com ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:30 am ((PDT)) That is a shame - but I guess they do that to get accuracy on the finished lathe. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:35 pm ((PDT)) I agree Tony. An old memory just popped up. I seem to remember that there was a source of extension lathe beds for the pool Que makers. I'll have to do a search on that and see what I find. Don [later message] Well, I found some bed extensions, but the cost was prohibitive. The Taig bed is reasonably priced, and I've got an old lathe that the bed it kind of beat up, So, if I could remove the top plate and use it for my extension, I would just buy a new bed for that lathe. I can't get the screws loose. Maybe with an impact driver, but as tight as they are, if I shear off a head, I would probably have to cut the aluminum off what a hack saw and cold chisel and heat and the flatness would probably be destroyed in the process. A look at the bottom of the steel part looks really rough, so it would have to be ground. Another idea for the scrap bin. At this point, I'm leaning to getting a 12" length of 1018 steel, 3/8" x 2 1/4" and seeing if my friend with the Bridgeport would cut some 45's on it. None of my dovetail cutters have a long enough face to make the cut, so it would require a setup on angle blocks to face mill the 45 and the chance of getting a good fit isn't very good. Maybe we could talk A2Z into making some. Don ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "alighazizadeh" alighazizadehx~xxaol.com Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:22 pm ((PDT)) I guess if everyone pushed Taig, then they may consider adding a couple of inches to their Z column; this would avoid a lot of headaches with regards to the Z axis working height. Regards, A.g ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:43 pm ((PDT)) 3/8" seems like overkill. If you go with 1/4" steel, a 1/2" dovetail cutter should be able to handle the job. ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:39 pm ((PDT)) On 6/29/2012 11:07 AM, Don wrote: > once the dovetail was aligned to the Z travel, you could move the > head top to bottom without losing alignment. Certainly, assuming it's cut accurately enough. After spending the last couple days working on dovetails, though, I'm realizing that they are trickier than they look. Getting good measurements is hard. ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:24 pm ((PDT)) The lathe bed stock is 3/8", and the stock dovetail on the mill is 5/16 thick. As I'm going to extend it above the Z body by 4", I would feel more comfortable with 3/8. Besides, 1/4" is to short for the proper dovetail. Don ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:34 am ((PDT)) Yeah, I went out and measured it last night. It doesn't seem that thick looking at it. The 3/4" dovetail cutters all seem to be 5/16" high, and that's pushing the limits of the mill. ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:17 am ((PDT)) If my friend can't do it on his Bridgeport, I'll pick up a set of 45 Degree blocks from Use-Enco and use them to set the angle and then skim the stock with an end mill or maybe better yet a fly cutter. I need to get one of them anyway. Don ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:12 pm ((PDT)) I'd use the side of the end mill, at least for the finishing passes. Otherwise, getting the sides of the dovetail parallel will be very difficult. Any bur or other irregularity in the sharp edge of the dovetail will throw the sides out of kilter when you flip it to cut the second side. Using the side of the mill means that the dovetailed edge will be flat on the table. It struck me that since you don't need to cut the inside corner of the dovetail (it's formed by the plate and the way), you can use a chamfer mill to cut the dovetail, which give you more usable height at the same diameter. ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Steve Wan" stewanx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:50 pm ((PDT)) Hi Tony. Thanks! Sparked on another new project to improve my mill z axis :) Will be getting a steel plate 15mm thick by 2" width, mill a step at the aluminium column, bolt the plate and bolt the mill bed as well... this will add up to another 2" higher. Steve W. ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Sun Jul 1, 2012 5:21 pm ((PDT)) Paul, close inspection of the existing dovetail shows it is 2 1/4" wide. Actually one is 2.241" wide one end and 2.242 on the other. this is a bare aluminum one that looks to be an extrusion. This is the orginal one. The second is black anodized aluminum, with both ends at 2.249" Both have a 0.050", best I can tell, 90 degree edge, then the 45 taper. Keeping this in mind, V blocks should work very well A 2 2/4" piece of CRS with the edge dressed of burs clamped into V block should give a good setup. I think your idea of cutting with the side of the mill vs facing off the part is probably a better approach. Once the V blocks were properly aligned to the table, you could just mill the edge until you have the 0.050" lip, the flip the work end for end and do it again. I don't think finish is an issue as the dovetail plates are not an exact fit to the head stocks to start with. The angles were off by a couple of degrees on one match I looked at. You can see the witness marks from where the head was locked and moved on the bare aluminum one and the contact line is very narrow. A bright light shone down the dovetail confirms that just the bottom edge of the headstock groove is clamping on the dovetail plate. As this is a sliding way, but a clamp, I think any reasonably smooth finish would be just fine as long as the 45 degrees were parallel. As an after thought, I fit both plates to a lathe carriage. That fit is exact, so the uneven fit I saw with the headstocks must be the result of tightening down the headstock, and slightly spreading the dovetail. In any case, a clamp fit is all you need so it shouldn't be a problem. ------- Re: Adding extra Z height ? Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Mon Jul 2, 2012 10:41 pm ((PDT)) On 7/1/2012 5:16 PM, Don wrote: > I think your idea of cutting with the side of the mill vs facing off > the part is probably a better approach. Once the V blocks were > properly aligned to the table, You could just mill the edge until you > have the 0.050" lip, the flip the work end for end and do it again Yeah, getting the sides parallel is more important than the angle. If they aren't parallel you'll have a very hard time getting it aligned to the direction of travel. > with the edge dressed of burs clamped into V block should give a > good setup. That's the real trick. Any burr is going to deflect the piece and prevent the edges from being parallel. It would be ideal to have something set up to generate a side force pressing the piece down into the v-block, but I can't think of an easy way to set that up. [later message] Oh, and using something like http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=12110605&PMA KA=308-0434 would allow you to forgo the v-blocks entirely. Just clamp your stock to the table with some spacers and run the cutter down one side and back up the other. ------- NOTE TO FILE: This next conversation posed a problem as to which file to put it in. It deals with modifying a Taig vice to hold round stock better, workholding, and modifying cutters to work better with brass. Normally I place a conversation into just one most appropriate file, but this one is short enough to appear in: Taig Modifications General Workholding General and Turning Brass. ------- Taig vice [taigtools] Posted by: "Ali Ghazizadeh" alighazizadehx~xxaol.com Date: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:54 pm ((PDT)) Hi, Has anyone used the Taig vice sucessfully on the vertical milling slide of the Taig lathe? I tried to use this vice yesterday and it failed to keep grip on a 20mm round brass stock. The milling cutter constantly pulled the work piece out even with 0.005" depth of cut. I traced the problem to the movable jaw as it rotated about the single hold down 10-32 shcs screw. Is there anything else that could be done with this vice to sort the problem out or shall I just forget about it? Regards, A.G ------- Re: Taig vice Posted by: "Shawn Woolley" shawnwoolleyx~xxmac.com Date: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:18 pm ((PDT)) I'm not home right now I'm up at my cabin to escape phoenix heat right now but I use the taig vice on round stock all the time I made a small set of extension jaws with three sizes of v-cuts to hold 3/8, 1/2 and 3/4 round stock which is the typical stock I use for bead making. With deep v's the stock locks into place and there's no issue facing or drilling stock. ------- Re: Taig vice Posted by: "WAM" ajawam2x~xxcomcast.net Date: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:01 pm ((PDT)) Brass grabs.... In the Machine Shop Trade Secrets book http://proshoppublishing.com/index.html he even mentions that. The author mentions to dull the cutting edge of the drill bit ... just had a machinist over at my shop showing me how to do it. ------- Re: Taig vice Posted by: "pe3hmp" pe3hmpx~xxhotmail.com Date: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:05 pm ((PDT)) I am not using a taig vise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALGqYgbkO90 This is a cheap Proxxon vise; what you see in my video is the milling of one of the brass fingers of the steady rest. Mark ------- 48" extended bed [taigtools] Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:03 pm ((PDT)) Have any of you folks ever seen one of these? [reference to a single lathe in an online private sale] I wonder where he got it made. ------- Re: 48" extended bed Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:20 pm ((PDT)) I believe Taig do these as specials - not surprisingly, for cue-making. Regards, Tony -------- Re: 48" extended bed Posted by: "Shawn Woolley" shawnwoolleyx~xxmac.com Date: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:57 pm ((PDT)) This looks like a one off build and a very good one at that. There used to be a person that made and sold these online they were very popular with the pool Cue making crowd. I have a friend that owns a complete pool cue shop in the Denver area and his primary lathe is a Taig derivative. He makes amazing pool cues and they play great. Also he gave me my choice once when I was visiting him, I think he was disappointed that I took one of the plainest ones he makes, but it was gorgeous and still gets comments whenever I use it. ------- Re: 48" extended bed Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:50 pm ((PDT)) That's really cool. Do you figure the bed would hold up to general machining use, or would it be too flexible to cut metal? A friend of mine sent me the link, he's thinking about buying it just to keep it in the garage and use it when something is a little too long for his Taig. I know I sometimes wish I'd opted for a longer bed on my lathe, usually when I have a longish part and a larger diameter drill bit. I have several cut-down bits, but they can't drill a deep hole... ------- Re: 48" extended bed Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:18 am ((PDT)) > Do you figure the bed would hold up to general machining use No. Regards, Tony ------- Re: 48" extended bed Posted by: "J. Todd Shultz" j.toddshultzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:02 am ((PDT)) They are not rare. How many do you want? I have them available here: http://www.midamericapool.com Click on parts and accessories, scroll toward the bottom of the page. They are "Hardcoat anodized" extruded aluminum available with a Taig 64 pitch, 11 inch rack gear or a 48 pitch, 42 inch rack gear. ------- Re: 48" extended bed Posted by: "J. Todd Shultz" j.toddshultzx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:55 am ((PDT)) They are not designed or intended to be used as a "general machine lathe". Cue Repair people and Cue Makers do use them to do fairly close tolerance metal work with stainless, Brass and aluminum but mostly they are working with wood and plastic. The hardcoat anodized extruded aluminum dovetail is however really quite durable. I have machines that have many years of commercial use and show very little wear. ------- Re: 48" extended bed Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:00 pm ((PDT)) I was sort of drooling over the large bore headstock, and the router mount on the midamericapool site. I really want to put together a variation on Hemingway's Quick Step Mill kit for smaller lathes. I think the router mount would actually do about 80% of what I want to accomplish. ------- Re: 48" extended bed Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:16 pm ((PDT)) The large bore headstock is only $250 -- actually, quite reasonable... Would be perfect for Native American Style flutes. ------- Re: 48" extended bed Posted by: "Shawn Woolley" shawnwoolleyx~xxmac.com Date: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:17 pm ((PDT)) The large bore headstock would also make bead making and turning rings be an amazingly simple task since you could just work off the extended end then do a cut off rather than fighting holding short pieces of stock. Plus add in a 24 step dividing head will help on both of these also. Ok I'm sold. Talked myself into it so I sent a email just now ordering one. I'll fill the group in when I receive it. He sent me larger clearer Photos and I was impressed. Shawn ------- long gear rack cutting [taigtools] Posted by: "Ron Thompson" ronx~xxourcadguy.com Date: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:42 am ((PDT)) Has anyone pivoted the head 90 degrees to cut a long rack? I am contemplating doing so for 1/2" x 1/2" x 4 foot steel racks. I need 30 feet of rack. I am thinking of using air powered clamping fixtures to advance the material to make it a continuous cnc operation. (One clamp on the table, another off the table.) The other thought was to add a spur gear to the 4th axis to pull the material after a few teeth were cut. But I like the air clamp idea better. Any thoughts or experiences anyone? Yes, I know you can buy racks, but the cost difference is enough to make me want to cut them. Thanks, Ron Thompson On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast Think, Draw, Print. 3D printers ROCK! http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/PrusaMendel2012-1/ http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here: http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/ Visit the castinghobby FAQ: http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/ ------- Re: long gear rack cutting Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:37 am ((PDT)) I've had good results splicing two short racks into one long one. Takes a bit of fiddling with the ends that mate up though. ------- Re: long gear rack cutting Posted by: "Ron Thompson" ronx~xxourcadguy.com Date: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:44 am ((PDT)) Yes, even at 48", I will need to join individual racks. The long ones will be 11 feet. The accepted practice is to grind the end at a slight angle and leave a small gap in the top center of the tooth. This portion is unused by the spur gear, and clamping a short piece of rack upside down over the joint assures proper spacing. I could just cut 12" pieces, but that is a lot of fitting. This will be used as the X and Y axes drive on a cnc router. ------- Re: long gear rack cutting Posted by: "Ron Thompson" ronx~xxourcadguy.com Date: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:29 am ((PDT)) On 9/24/2012 12:21 PM, Tony Jeffree wrote: > That sounds like a serious router :-) Yep, 5' x 10' cutting area. Similar to a Shopbot or a Mechmate. Ron Thompson ------- Re: long gear rack cutting Posted by: "Ron Thompson" ronx~xxourcadguy.com Date: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:33 am ((PDT)) On 9/24/2012 11:55 AM, Pierre Coueffin wrote: > I brazed mine together. It is a bit tricky, but strong. I bet! These will be mounted with socket head cap screws along the axes. Similar to this: http://blog.hovertop.com/2011/10/cnc-is-alive/attachment/00009408/ Ron Thompson ------- Tightening the column on Taig mill [taigtools] Posted by: "rickelwell" yaahoox~xxelwell.org Date: Mon Nov 5, 2012 8:56 am ((PST)) When I first used the Taig mill I overtightened the column. This caused the front angle iron to bend where the column screw threads in at the front. The interesting part is that this caused the front foot to become not level with the other 2 feet. To make the front foot level again, I used a 1/2-13 bolt, in reverse position, to pull it back out. However, the metal up front is still somewhat bent and no longer allows the column to be tightened sufficiently. To provide extra support up front, I cut a 2-1/2" x 1-3/4" piece of steel (5/8" thick), drilled and tapped 1/2-13 screw hole. Now when the column is tightened, the pulling force of the column screw bears on the edges of the angle iron frame... as it should!! ------- Re: Tightening the column on Taig mill Posted by: "alighazizadeh" alighazizadehx~xxaol.com Date: Mon Nov 5, 2012 9:16 am ((PST)) Hi. For what it's worth, much as I love this little mill, I consider the design of the mounting of the column to the bed assembly as flawed. Numerous people have commented on the problem that you have pointed out and also on the lack of rigidity of the column and bed. As far as the problem of the bending the front angle, the only sensible solution for Taig would be to considerably strengthen the front mounting angle plate as you have done or if possible insert a long bush over the mounting screw to mate with the front angle thereby preventing the angle from being pulled in and disturb the very fragile tram of the bed. Regards, A.G ------- Re: Tightening the column on Taig mill Posted by: "mlakedon" malakedonx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:29 pm ((PST)) You're right, I've always thought the column to bed left a lot to be desired. But in fairness, it was probably a compromise based on cost. However, after a considerable time, you'd think they would have improved it. Take a look at my photo album (mlakedon) and what I did to eliminate this design weakness. I'm not done yet, I just finished the table and spindle adapters (7075 aluminum), and then I have to align and pin everything. Mark ------- Re: Tightening the column on Taig mill Posted by: "alighazizadeh" alighazizadehx~xxaol.com Date: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:50 pm ((PST)) Hi Mark, That is some incredible work you have done on the mill, it must have cost a fortune. Regards, A.G ------- Re: Tightening the column on Taig mill Posted by: "mlakedon" malakedonx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:05 pm ((PST)) I got lucky on the castings, they were off some Nikon inspection equipment. I got them for $50.00. They weigh about 150 lbs, and are machined beautifully. Once I start aligning things I'll see how square everything is. I'd like to improve the spindle next, but that will need to wait a while, since my old Logan lathe needs some work also. It is number 11 out of the factory from June, 1940. A real "war baby". Regards, Mark ------- ER-20 Spindle for the Taig Mill [taigtools] Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:26 pm ((PST)) In my quest for a way to use 1/2" shank tools on my Taig, I finally settled for modifying the stock ER housing to hold an ER-20 chuck. I did a photo essay on the conversion and it is in Files section: ER-20 Spindle.PDF It was an easy and not very expensive change. I'm very happy with the outcome, so I thought I should share. Don ------- Pondering brushless conversion on mill - seeking input [taigtools] Posted by: "Jim" jim_stollx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:05 pm ((PST)) I've been running the original 1/8HP Taig mill motor for some years now, and have finally reached the point where I feel the need for more power. (I'm not trying to hog out large quantities of metal, but something with a little more oomph, and a little more stability in speed during the cut would be nice.) I've been about ready to purchase the 1/4HP motor, and also upgrade to the ER16 spindle. (The motor is kind of a necessity - the ER16 was just because I was already going to be down for a short bit, so figured I might as well do that at the same time.) I've recently acquired a 7x16 mill with a 500W DC brushless motor, and am kind of in love with the thing. (The lathe in general is decent, but the drive motor setup is pretty amazing for its size.) Anyway, I got to thinking... Wouldn't it be doubly awesome to have that same drive setup on my mill. I can't seem to find anywhere online that sells the motor/controller (it appears to be universal between the Sieg XS2, the HighLux (Micromark) brand mills/lathes and the HiTorque (LittleMachineShop) brand mills/lathes. Then, I stumbled on a 'retrofit' kit from LMS that contains the motor and controller. http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3935 So, for the same general ballpark that I was looking at for the 1/4HP motor, the ER16 spindle and the assorted tooling that I'd need to replace (collets, fly cutter, drill arbor, etc), could get this brushless setup. (For the variable speed and additional power, I'd be willing to forgo the ER16 conversion, at least for a while.) I've not done this type of conversion before, however, so am curious to hear what others with more experience would have to say. As per conversations with Chris at LMS (who seems to think this could be a good fit, though granted, he'd be the one selling it to me. :-) I'd likely go with a toothed pulley/belt arrangement, and could just ratio the pulleys 2:1, to get the 10k output that I need for some engraving that I do on some of my projects. (In addition to the weak 1/8 HP motor, the other issue I have w/ my Taig setup is that the teeny little belt tends to get worn and stretched, leading to bogging, end mill chipping/dulling, etc. -- and that's just w/ the 1/8HP motor -- the 1/4HP motor, or this brushless motor, would only increase the frequency of that, I suspect.) Anyway, thoughts?? Thanks! ------- Re: Pondering brushless conversion on mill - seeking input Posted by: "WAM" ajawam2x~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:27 pm ((PST)) I'm about to do the same to my oversized Maxnc. The BLDC motor is nice. One thing I have to consider is that the MAXNC mill itself is a bit light for the 0.67 HP. I have both the LMS mill and lathe and I've snapped 1/4" endmills during a crash on the SX2 with no problem (cheap rotary table let go...). Those Sieg's, even the SX2 have a bit of iron in them; lot more mass. Not sure what a crash would do, at least to my MAXNC; esp. since it's oversized (has about 16" of X travel, 10.5" Y and 11 inches spindle to table). I do recall talking to someone about putting that LMS BLDC motor on my Taig lathe and he mentioned the same thing. If I do the Maxnc, I'm going to probably stay with a similar belt system, since I'd rather it slipped during my typical stupid moments. BTW - I priced out some other BLDC systems from places like Anaheim, etc... that motor and Atmel based BLDC driver board that LMS sells is about half the price. Also - get the ER... it's worth it. Maxnc's use Taig spindles - both the lathe collet style and the ER. I saw a big improvement in finish when I converted mine. http://home.comcast.net/~ajawam3/swarf/swarf.htm ------- Re: Pondering brushless conversion on mill - seeking input Posted by: "Jeffrey Birt" birt_jx~xxsoigeneris.com Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:14 am ((PST)) > the other issue I have w/ my Taig setup is that the teeny little belt > tends to get worn and stretched, Belt alignment is very critical. Take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5phIlhubNQ It describes a method I discovered that makes alignment very easy. Jeff Birt Soigeneris.com ------- Re: Pondering brushless conversion on mill - seeking input Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:12 pm ((PST)) Paul, I've got to agree with you on the little belts being tough. The only time I've had a problem with one in the last 14 years of taig ownership is when I changed to a different lathe motor and didn't get it aligned. It was just a matter of a hour or so and the belt started rolling off the pulley. It was badly stretched on one side. If they are aligned correctly and set tight enough that they twang when you pluck them, they are good for hundreds of hours of use. If you don't get them tight enough so they don't slip though, they don't take kindly to have a pulley spinning without the belt moving. When I was an IBM Customer Engineer, we had a couple machines that used that same series belts and they would run 16 hrs a day for roughly 2 1/2 years before they would need replacing. Roughly 10,000 hours. The load wasn't what you would see on a Mill, so I wouldn't expect that life on a Taig, but 10% of it is probably within reason. Don ------- Re: Pondering brushless conversion on mill - seeking input Posted by: "Jim" jim_stollx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:05 pm ((PST)) Yeah, I wouldn't have any hope of actually utilizing the full power of the motor (ie, via appropriate feed & speed for the little mill), but I can't help but think that some of the extra power could be managed and utilized. The variable speed aspect would be a nice-to-have, both from a fine-tuning perspetive, as well as a not-having-to-change-belt-position perspective. I guess the base-level question to be asked is, would I likely be better off with the 1/4" HP setup w/ ER16, or the BLDC setup w/ the current 3/4-16. My ultimate goal is to increase the utility and usability of the machine, not necessarily to have the coolest setup. :-) (FWIW, I work mostly w/ mild steel, aluminum and plastic. I've tried harder steels with some limited success, but never enough to actually try to plan a project or product around it.) I just checked out the Anaheim site - they've got a 440W motor (maybe more appropriately sized, as it wouldn't be quite as much overkill as a 500W), but the 440W motor is $368, and the controller is $166, and that's w/o switches, cables, power supply, etc. Did you mean that you'd found the equivalent of the LMS kit for 1/2 the LMS price, or that the LMS kit was cheaper than the separate parts? (I'm guessing the former, but wasn't finding that, at least with only 5 mins of poking around. If you found the items cheaper, do you by chance have any links or pointers on where to look?) I've broken quite a few 1/8" shank tools on the Taig, and mangled some 1/4 and 5/16" tools in crashes, belt-slipping mishaps, etc, but never snapped anything as large as a 1/4". That'd be a bit fearsome w/the thing spinning! :-) ------- Re: Pondering brushless conversion on mill - seeking input Posted by: "WAM" ajawam2x~xxcomcast.net Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:47 pm ((PST)) Yea, i was looking at a bigger motor on AA... ended up being around $790 with a power supply. The LMS I got for around 470 for both the motor and controller which has the 120VAC PS on board ... 1/4" endmills fly real good. Nice ding in the wall. Glad it went the other way... My reasoning for putting the LMS motor on my Maxnc was to get some torque at lower RPM's. ------- Re: Pondering brushless conversion on mill - seeking input Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:22 pm ((PST)) > 1/4" endmills fly real good. Nice ding in the wall. Glad it went the > other way... And here I thought the 1/4" polycarbonate panels I put in my mill enclosure were overkill :) BTW, I just posted the enclosure and the CNC controller builds in the photos section. As soon as I make some space on the work bench for the lathe I can get back to work on finishing the last bits of the grinding rest. ------- Re: Pondering brushless conversion on mill - seeking input Posted by: "Jim" jim_stollx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Feb 3, 2013 5:42 pm ((PST)) Heh heh, Ok, so the general gist I'm getting is that the 500W (.67HP) brushless motor is probably serious overkill in terms of both money and power, that the ER16 is probably more important than the brushless motor anyway, and that chances are, my belt shivs are out of alignment (which I have just now confirmed they are -- just slightly, but perhaps enough to be causing the belt stretches/failures -- I've got a little stopper installed in my spindle pulley (as per Nick Carter's site), which I use to set the Z on my collet-held tools. Over time, tightening the collet pushes up slightly, but inexorably, on the stop, which in turn seems to make the spindle pulleys creep upward, so I'll have to readjust that and see how it goes.) Anyway, I appreciate everyone's feedback and input. I haven't yet emotionally let entirely go of the brushless setup, but the practicality of the ER16 and the 1/4HP motor (I'm on the old 1/8), along with a properly adjusted belt, will almost certainly win out. :-) Thanks! ------- Taig mill column stabilzed [taigtools] Posted by: "rickelwell" yaahoox~xxelwell.org Date: Wed Feb 6, 2013 8:24 am ((PST)) See pictures of my stabilized Taig column. Pictures are here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/files/Rick%20Yaahoo/ The milling machine is bolted to 1/2" thick steel plate. Column is reinforced with 3/8" steel angle. The bolts are M12 class 10. The reason for doing this is to put on a 3 jaw chuck and turn stock like a lathe. ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Thu Feb 7, 2013 10:38 pm ((PST)) Interesting. Do you have a fine tramming adjustment on the brace? Seems like the setup would make it easier to tram, but I'm not sure how much stiffer it would be. BTW, how do you like that trammer from Edge? I've thought about it a number of times, but never pulled the trigger. How hard is it to calibrate? ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "Alex Wetmore" alexx~xxphred.org Date: Thu Feb 7, 2013 11:22 pm ((PST)) I've probably been spending too much time on sailboats, but it seems like this would be a perfect application for turnbuckles and high tension stainless cables or rods. That would give you the ability to easily adjust for tram, but if properly triangulated would add a lot of rigidity to the setup. I may try it myself, especially since I have some extra turnbuckles sitting around that came off of my old sailboat. Peter: A friend who spends all day in his metal shop loves his Edge tramming system. I almost never take my Taig out of tram so I can't see it being too important there, but keep almost getting one for my manual mill. alex ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Thu Feb 7, 2013 11:49 pm ((PST)) There's a video here: http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/pro-tram-system1.html Interesting device. Of course, all it tells you is that the spindle is perpendicular to the table, not whether the mill is actually set up correctly in all respects. For example, if the spindle isn't parallel to the ways, "tramming" this way won't fix the problem. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "WAM" ajawam2x~xxcomcast.net Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 4:11 am ((PST)) Starrett, SPI and others make a similar device - I have the SPI variant: http://home.comcast.net/~ajawam3/swarf/DSCN2708.JPG Starrett: http://www.wttool.com/index/page/product/product_id/12707/product_na me/Spindle+Square+%28Starrett%29&update_continue_shopping=true?utm_med ium=cpc&utm_source=SiteChampion from the page: "After setting the spindle square indicators to "0" on a surface plate, place the square into the milling machine's collet and bring the head down to the table until both indicator needles have gone approximately one full rotation. The needles do not need to point in the same direction. Identical numerical readings, not the needle positions, indicate squareness. To tram the milling machine, adjust the machine per normal procedures until both indicators read the same numerical value. After setting the X-axis, repeat the same procedure with the Y-axis." SPI: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=319-3127&PMP XNO=19506532 ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 6:49 am ((PST)) Thick end of $200 seems way OTT for something that you could construct very easily using a pair of inexpensive DTIs...especially so as it doesn't tell you anything about whether the Z ways are perpendicular or not (as pointed out earlier). Regards, Tony ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "ED MAISEY" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 1:38 pm ((PST)) But you have to remember, you will spend less time tramming and get more machining done; that may be so in industry, in the hobby who cares really, once again influenced by being brainwashed; nothing wrong with the bent stick and a DTI on the end, just need some time to practice, Just my own humble opinion, Edmund ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "rickelwell" yaahoox~xxelwell.org Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 2:21 pm ((PST)) No fine tramming adjustment needed. I just kept it trammed while drilling the holes. With the spindle square it's easy to see if it's moved off zero or not. The bolts are press fit to the holes. The unthreaded part of the M12 bolt fits snug when pushed into the hole. Drilled the holes with 1/4", then 29/64", then 15/32" drill bit. And the spindle square calibration is just a matter of zeroing each indicator at the same location on the table. [later message] The ZX and ZY are trammed separately. So it's possible to get the axis of rotation of the Taig spindle so that it's perpendicular to the table within .0005". To tram ZY on the taig I simply put in a shim where the column mates up with the base. My ZY was off by .002". Then I inserted a piece of paper from the Yellow Pages, now it's better than .0005" along ZY. ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "chuck" chuckelsx~xxverizon.net Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 3:11 pm ((PST)) yup it will tell you the spindle is square to the table in all directions however it does not guarantee the Z travel is square to the table. you CAN have one without the other and think its all hunky dory when in effect the Z will be moving less than plum. ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 4:00 pm ((PST)) Exactly so. Regards, Tony ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "Don" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 5:13 pm ((PST)) Exactly so times two. The very last and I repeat last step is the spindle. 99% of the setup is done without the spindle. Once every thing is moving right, then you set up the spindle and pitch and roll it so it is square with the table. Table movement that is. When I was a Machine Repairman, and putting old worn out mills back to right, the very last step was to fly cut the table, if it needed it. If you started there, you were in deep trouble. Same with starting by setting the pitch and roll of the spindle before setting up the moves. And to do that you need some known good squares. Or at least know how far out of square your square is. Don ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "Adam Collins" rxforspeedx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 3:36 pm ((PST)) You'll still need to square the Z axis travel before "tramming." You can do this using a DTI sweeping an angle plate, 1x2x3/2x4x6 block, or other precision ground 90-degree piece secured to the table. You'll want to square your Z travel and your YZ alignment together because you'll lose the Z anytime you loosen the column nut. Fine tuning for the "tram" can be accomplished by loosening the headstock dovetail plate mounting bolts and adjusting/shimming that as needed, but once the Z travel and YZ plane are within an acceptable tolerance you don't want to touch that column nut until your next tram or angled column set up... Adam ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "WAM" ajawam2x~xxcomcast.net Date: Fri Feb 8, 2013 3:39 pm ((PST)) chuck wrote: > yup it will tell you the spindle is square to the table in all directions however it does not guarantee the Z travel is square to the table. you CAN have one without the other and think its all hunky dory when in effect the Z will be moving less than plum. < True... Tram up with an indicator. Using a collet to hold a small drill bit, put a small dimple in a piece of AL or something mounted directly to the table (you eventually want the the max distance). Don't move the table. Take the spindle to the top of the column. Then get one of those laser edgefinders; make sure it's true to the axis of the spindle when you mount it in the spindle (you do this by taking the column up, use the supplied target and rotate the spindle by hand to see if the dot wobbles). With the column up an the XY table where it was when you left it, turn on the laser. IF all is well, it should hit the drill dimple you made. Now move the column down. On the chinese mills like mine you can see the wobble in the Z ways/gibs quite easily. Not much but there. The asian mills like my LMS have a headstock that is bolted to the Z carriage. Many are shipped with the headstock not true to the way carriage. Mine was off slightly; I got lucky - more slop in the dovetails/gib alignment. There are other ways of doing this; quite a few people have used something similar to Rollie's Dad's Method, typically used on aligning lathe beds with the headstock. I learned this when adding line lasers to my mill: http://home.comcast.net/~ajawam3/swarf/mill_mods.html#laser ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:52 am ((PST)) On 2/8/2013, chuck wrote: > spindle is square to the table in all directions however it does > not guarantee the Z travel is square to the table. Once the spindle is parallel to the z-travel, I would expect it to stay that way unless you remove the head. Have you experienced problems? The column, alas, gets out of alignment fairly easily. ------- Re: Taig mill column stabilzed Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:58 am ((PST)) I would agree it should stay that way if you don't disturb anything, but if you move the headstock on its dovetail plate or if (like me) you occasionally move the Z ways up one set of holes to get extra headroom, then all bets are off. Regards, Tony ------- resonance and noisey taig operation [taigtools] Posted by: "george" mndzbluex~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:50 pm ((PST)) i'm going to bring up the subject of resonance and noise. My taig for about a 1 year started to create a hissing, humming noise. I assumed that it was normal noise of it wearing. As time passed it became louder, but tolereable. Resonance, I just expected it. Resonance. I have now set it up this way: Taig bed is on a riser solid aluminum 3/4 in. bolted on top 3/8 in. thick aluminum plate. (20 X 13 in.) 9/32 in. solid rubber sheet (20 X 13 in.) 1 in. black foam (20 X 13 in.) HDB box riser Sears Approximate 30 in. tall toolbox Noise I should've applied silicone paste for rubber, but was too lazy. Not recommended, I applied a bit of vaseline on belt. The belt showed white powder look, probably from wearing and thermal wear. This excess dry condition would cause friction and noisey belt operation. My taig is running quiet and smooth. ------- Re: resonance and noisey taig operation Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:10 pm ((PST)) If you can find a spray can of belt dressing, it will probably last a lifetime. Makes v-belts live a lot longer. ------- Re: round drive belt [taigtools] Posted by: "iconoscopedude" gordonscott2012x~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:20 am ((PST)) "JOHN" wrote: > Has any one used a round [rather than 3m V] polyurethane belt on > the taig lathe? And did it work? B3m500 belts are very overpriced > in the UK Cheers JohnB I use 3/16" round polyurethane weldable belts in place of the original V belt. The round poly belt has superior grip on the pulleys compared to the original v belts. Poly belts also wear much better than the original. I buy the belt material in 10 foot lengths and cut it to size, welding the ends together using nothing more than a candle to melt the material ends, then push the ends together, let cool and trim off the excess. Poly belt material can be found in a number of places online, just do a search to locate a source. ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:59 pm ((PST)) On 2/18/2013, pe3hmp wrote: > the brand is gates, nut i am sure there are more quality brands. Gates belts are a 3M brand, and pretty durable. ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "Boman33" boman33x~xxvinland.com Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:53 pm ((PST)) I understand the convenience of the weldable round belts but I do not understand why they should be superior. A lot of people, me included, have zero problems with the V-belts. Further , if round is superior, why is almost every industrial application using V-belts instead of round belts? How did you measure the grip on the two types of belts and how did you do the life testing? Bertho ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "ED MAISEY" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:54 pm ((PST)) John, how much are the belts you mention in UK? Edmund ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "ED MAISEY" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:06 am ((PST)) John, the belts you mention, are good for 5,000 hrs and the cost here is $9.20 that's 5.87 sterling, the shipping can't cost too much for such a small item, Edmund ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "Tony Jeffree" tonyx~xxjeffree.co.uk Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:17 am ((PST)) The only way I have found to destroy the Gates belts is to mis-align the pulleys and then run the machine on high speed for an extended period. Properly set up, they last very well, and in my experience, provide better traction than round belts in those V-pulleys. Regards, Tony ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:00 pm ((PST)) You are dead-right Tony. A mis-aligned belt will deform quickly. Once it develops a left turn, it will be trouble forever. I was lucky. I caught the problem early (after reading expert accounts here). I realized the problem, and turned the belt over. Let it run the other direction for a while, then fixed the alignment. ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "Stan Stocker" skstockerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:48 am ((PST)) Hi Group, I'm still using the original belt from 1996, spare purchased with lathe is still in drawer. As many have said, line it up and all is well. I have used fused lathe belting for jewelers lathes and to run one of the Taigs from a sewing machine motor for a pivot polisher. Nothing wrong with them, but nothing particularly better either. A tad more stretch, with a cut that starts to chatter you can get a little stretch/ shrink action in a round belt that doesn't happen (at least as obviously) in the Gates V belt. People used to freak over the use of thin belts on Chinese 9 inch lathes because they look small. Half the "read lots, cut little, don't have one but it's obvious" folks were quick to claim the sky would fall because that thin belt must be a huge failure point. Never broke one in my life. Happy to be rid of the crappy 920 lathe, but the belts were one of the few things that did not create any problems. Best to all, Stan ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "Jeffrey Birt" birt_jx~xxsoigeneris.com Date: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:03 pm ((PST)) Here is a link to a video that shows an easy way I found to align the Taig spindle belt. Trying to support the weight of the spindle motor whilst aligning it is difficult to do and can lead to misalignment issues and quickly wearing belts. Have a look, hopefully it will be of some use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5phIlhubNQ Jeff Birt Soigeneris.com ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "JOHN" jbuttonx~xxbtinternet.com Date: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:09 am ((PST)) Hi Edmund. I live in England and there is a major problem with ordering ANYTHING from the USA. Even small orders can get caught up in customs and then there are substantial surcharges and handling charges and mail admin reclaim charges coming to many times the item cost - even if there is no duty. The 3m 500 belt here is £12 ie 20$ Cheeers John ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "Lester Caine" lesterx~xxlsces.co.uk Date: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:18 am ((PST)) http://medw.co.uk/wiki/view/Taig+Mill+Spares But I have had to put the price up recently as shipping on the last batch was silly money :( Lester Caine ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "ED MAISEY" holmes_ca_2000x~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:25 pm ((PST)) John, I have the same trouble up here in Canada; if I order anything most times it has to come from the USA. Shipping has gotten ridiculous, it can be double or three times the cost of the item. Even if I purchased a belt for you and mailed it to you it would still cost you at least $20.00 Cdn dollars so you wouldn't be any better off. Personally I would stay with Gates, just make sure it's lined up. Edmund ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "Jeffrey Birt" birt_jx~xxsoigeneris.com Date: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:02 am ((PST)) USPS Priority shipping went up $2~$4 for a small fat rate box to most places in the world, it is $18~$24 dollars now depending on where you are shipping to. Some places in the USA, like my company, will ship First Class Mail internationally. These packages have to be less than 4 pounds but can save about 1/3 of the shipping cost over Priority mail. I was recently surprised though that it seemed the USPS Express International prices seem to be much more competitive. I was able to ship Sherline mill package to Spain much less expensively than any other method. For really large shipments DHL is usually a good deal if you can pick the parcel up yourself at the destination airport. In general I would suggest calling or emailing the place you want to buy from in the USA to see what the best way to ship will be. I know I try to get my customers the best rate possible and many other vendors will do the same thing. If you’re going to be buying things from multiple vendors in the USA, find one that will consolidate your shipment for you. There may a small charge but it will be much less than paying for multiple shipments. Most places will not advertise this service but may be willing to provide it for good customers. Jeff Birt Soigeneris.com ------- Re: round drive belt Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:17 am ((PST)) > USPS Priority shipping went up $2~$4 for a small fat rate box to most > places in the world, In the case of the Gates belt in question, you could shove several hundred into the smallest flat rate box without trying hard. To ship one, I'd just put it between a couple of index cards, drop it in a regular letter envelope, and stick a stamp on it. I'd be surprised if it exceeded 1 oz and you needed a second stamp. ------- Taig mill low-speed countershaft [taigtools] Posted by: "rickyaahoo" yaahoox~xxelwell.org Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:29 am ((PDT)) I finally made the low-speed countershaft for the mill. Now I get a low speed of 390 RPM with the 1/4 HP OEM motor. My question is, is it possible to use it for high-speed +30K RPM? I used SAE660 bronze for the bearings, A2 drill rod for the 1/4" shaft, and an OEM pulley. It's tight and doesn't wobble, however I'm concerned the bearings in the Taig mill headstock will disintegrate if I try to run at +30K RPM, or my bronze bearings will overheat due to friction. ------- Re: Taig mill low-speed countershaft Posted by: "gebowes" gebowesx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:46 am ((PDT)) I'd be interested in any pictures or details you could provide about the countershaft. I have been thinking of trying to accomplish the same thing. I would like both a lower speed for things such as boring and 25k+ for engraving and PCBs. 30k is too high for the standard spindle bearings. I think the stock bearings are good to about 14k. It is not easy to find the same size bearings rated much over 20k... and if you do, they do not use grease which mean you would have lubrication and shielding issues. One day I plan to build or buy a high speed spindle. As I do not need much power, I would probably also use a smaller/lighter motor to drive it. ------- Re: Taig mill low-speed countershaft Posted by: "lscesuk" lesterx~xxlsces.co.uk Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:14 pm ((PDT)) What I posted earlier is that the spindle is spec'ed to 15000 RPM and running any faster is not recommended. I can get higher speed out of the 3ph variable drive motor, but limit it to 15k. ------- Re: Taig mill low-speed countershaft Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:42 pm ((PDT)) I've seen some very interesting high-speed tooling done using a brushless motor and speed controller intended for an RC aircraft. You can get the off-brand ones cheaply from suppliers on the internet, and they pack a lot of torque into a small package. ------- Re: Taig mill low-speed countershaft Posted by: "rickyaahoo" yaahoox~xxelwell.org Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:05 am ((PDT)) This website gave me the idea (scroll down few pages to see the countershaft mod): http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/mill_motor_upgrade.htm However, I did not change the riser so my modification was slightly different than his. I made a 1/4" thick steel motor mounting plate with a 3/4" long slot cut at a 60 degree angle to hold the countershaft support that I mount above the plate with a T-nut that I put on the bottom of the plate; this locks the countershaft support firmly in place. This was the major different in my design. My low speeds are: 390, 650, 975, 1435, 2160 for the 1/4 HP OEM motor at 3450 RPM. I don't need it to go faster; the idea is to maintain good torque for milling steel; my endmills should last longer now!! For materials you would need to purchase 1/4" x 4" steel plate for the motor mount and 1/4" x 1" steel plate for the support bar. Some SAE660 bearing bronze. A 1/4" hardened steel dowel pin is probably best for the shaft. However I used A2 drill rod (not hardened). Soon I will upload a picture... ------- Re: Taig mill low-speed countershaft Posted by: "rickyaahoo" yaahoox~xxelwell.org Date: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:15 am ((PDT)) Here are pics of my low-speed countershaft. It works great except the belt must be on really tight, otherwise it slips. So when I mill steel, it now produces real chips, not metal powder. Also I did another mounting plate for a 500W DC Motor, purchase from LMS. It's very quiet; ramps up slowly. It doesn't try to go from 0 to 2000 RPMs in under .10 secs flat. Probably good for use in an apartment so that it doesn't wake the neighbors. Low-speed countershaft-BOTTOM http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/photos/album/498689051/pic/786 837711/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc Low-speed countershaft-TOP http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/photos/album/498689051/pic/112 7358228/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc 500W DC Motor http://groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/photos/album/498689051/pic/894 194366/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc ------- Re: Lathe chuck for ER16 spindle [taigtools] Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Sun Aug 4, 2013 1:31 am ((PDT)) On 8/3/2013 7:08 PM, manfredv1 wrote: > there is no "standard" chuck or adaptor available for the "new" ER16 > spindle that Taig and a few others now sell. Are you wanting to use this on a mill or on a lathe? I've been using an adapter to use ER16 collets on the standard lathe spindle, and it works pretty well for turning stuff from 3/8" rod and smaller. Obviously you get more runout than you would if you had an ER16 spindle, but the threaded nose on a ER16 isn't really suitable for mounting a chuck: no flat reference surface to tighten up against. AFAICT the options are: 1. Use an adapter for ER16 collets 2. Switch out spindles between collet work and chuck or center work. 3. Get a second lathe bed and motor for the ER16 spindle. I'd be happy to hear of other possibilities. Option 2 isn't really feasible because the headstock needs to be shimmed to get it aligned accurately with the ways. The Workshop Practice Series book on lathe work goes through the process of making a cylindrical square and getting the headstock aligned. ------- Re: Lathe chuck for ER16 spindle Posted by: "LJG" yrralguthriex~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Aug 4, 2013 5:05 am ((PDT)) The run out on a lathe 3 or 4 jaw chuck is anywhere from .001 to .006 depending on how good the chuck is. The run out on an ER spindle should be on the order of .0001 to .0006 or about 10 times better. It will also take considerable more motor torque to turn the lathe chuck than the ER. Thus reducing the power of the mill. Lathe chucks don't repeat well. ie if you take a part out then put it back in it's likely you'll have an additional runout to deal with. It is possible with a 4 jaw chuck to indicate true center, but it will still have axial runout. Larry ------- Re: Lathe chuck for ER16 spindle Posted by: "mayor_of_atlantis" mayor_of_atlantisx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Aug 4, 2013 6:13 am ((PDT)) I am very new to precision machining and I wanted to share a rookie's thought on this issue. Prior to getting a Taig mill I used the lathe milling attachment on my Taig lathe. Starting out with lathe milling I had to use the 4 jaw chuck to hold 3/8"end mills I had on hand. The Taig collet set designed for the standard lathe spindle wouldn't take the 3/8" shafts. I got one of the ER16 adapters just so I could use the widely available 3/8" shaft end mills. The ER16 collet adapter works way better for holding tooling on the lathe than the 4 jaw chuck because the bit changeovers can be done much quicker. Not to mention less intimidating than a spinning large workholding chuck. As far as runout goes, I could get the end mills running "good enough" on the 4 jaw chuck for lathe milling by dialing in the concentricity when I loaded tooling. That process obviously wasn't required for the ER16 adapter. My rank amateur skills and experience so far have not required any of the precision benefits of the ER collet system for work holding on the lathe. I just found the ER16 adapter very good and convenient for a beginner to use the standard lathe for milling operations. One of the benefits of the ER system I have found is that it friction fits tooling in place on the closer nut. You can therefore readily mount the tooling to a machine whether it be a lathe or mill without fear of the bit falling out in the process. For my purposes I am glad I got the ER adapter for my standard spindle lathe. The cost outlay was much much less than a new spindle or headstock and I can continue to use my existing chucks and face plates. ------- Re: Lathe chuck for ER16 spindle Posted by: "Jeffrey Birt" birt_jx~xxsoigeneris.com Date: Sun Aug 4, 2013 7:09 am ((PDT)) You can use a ¾-16 to ER16 adapter that Taig makes: http://www.soigeneris.com/taig_3_4_16_to_er16_adapter__1045er-details.aspx Or a ER16 to ¾-16 adapter that A2Z makes: http://www.soigeneris.com/a2z_er16_threaded_arbors-details.aspx With these two adapters you can go either way, form a ¾-16 spindle to ER16 or from ER16 to ¾-16. Both will increase run-out and both 'stick out' a short distance. While neither solution is 'as good' as having a dedicated spindle of the type you want, both are perfectly functional and very useful at times. Jeff Birt Soigeneris.com ------- Re: Lathe chuck for ER16 spindle Posted by: "manfredv1" manfredv1x~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Aug 4, 2013 7:59 pm ((PDT)) Thank you to all. I think I will get the 3/4-16 spindle initially for a home-brew lathe and use it for the (separate) homebrew mill as well. Yes, not ideal... When the money allows I will l get the ER16 spindle for the mill exclusively. Manfred ------- Re: Lathe chuck for ER16 spindle Posted by: "LJG" yrralguthriex~xxgmail.com yrralguthrie Date: Mon Aug 5, 2013 9:10 am ((PDT)) Will Schmit wrote: > That makes perfect sense. > There are hundreds of accessories that will fit it from the > woodworking lathe community too. When using a lathe chuck on a lathe operating technique can get excellent results even when the chuck exhibits considerable run out. It requires that all machining be done without removing the work piece from the lathe. If a perfectly round result is wanted, just use a round that is larger than needed and cut it down to cut all the runout off. It will then run perfectly true, even for a beginner. Then do whatever machining needs to be done. If you have to remove the work from the chuck be sure to mark both the chuck and the work so that it can be replaced exactly the way it came out. This will help, but sometimes even when doing this the chuck won't "repeat" and the work piece won't run true. When using a lathe chuck on a mill this cannot be done since the cutting tool is held in the chuck. I off hand don't see where a woodworking accessory for a chuck can be of benefit to use in a mill. A woodworking chuck on a lathe holds the work, on a mill the chuck holds the cutting tool. Any inaccuracies built into the chuck are going to show up in your work if used on the mill. You have to have some way to mount the chuck and since it will have to be shop built, your shop, a beginner will have some trouble getting it accurate. A sloppy lathe can produce good results, not so a mill. If you simply want a chuck on the mill then you can get a Albrecht type keyless chuck with a straight shank than can be placed in the ER collet. These are available for $30.00 on Ebay. And are extremely handy. They tighten much easier than the typical cordless drill chuck for instance. Always a good thing to start with the machine as accurate as you can reasonably get it. I usually side with the "make it work" crowd over the elitist, but in this case it seems foolish to go to the trouble to adapt the lathe chuck to a mill when a much better alternative is available for little money and effort. Again the ER chuck will be about 10 times more accurate than any chuck, including the keyless chuck. I do however have a keyless chuck in can put in my mill for drilling. I use the same size shank cutters so there is little need to change them when using the ER chuck. Just cannot see an advantage to using the lathe chuck on the mill over other options. Not cheaper, not more convenient, not easier to mount, and many times more dangerous. Sooner or later I would ruin a workpiece or skin some fingers. Or break some fingers on the lathe chuck jaws. Many people have gotten clothing caught in a lathe chuck with disastrous results losing fingers or hands even on a large lathe. This would be much easier to do using the lathe chuck on a mill. Notice there is little to catch anything with typical mill chucks, collet and tool holders. The lathe chuck is really pretty dangerous. Lathe use education includes safety issues. I virtually never say, "I don't recommend this". Not experienced enough or egotistical enough to think someone cares if I recommend it or not. But in this case using the lathe chuck on a mill is a really bad idea. I'll do almost anything to avoid spending more money or getting a job done, but not that. "That makes perfect sense." Sorry, no it doesn't. Larry ------- Re: Lathe chuck for ER16 spindle Posted by: "manfredv1" manfredv1x~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Aug 5, 2013 10:32 am ((PDT)) Hi All. Did not realise that my post could be controversial. I am building my own milling machine and have come to the insight that I need (want?) a lathe too. I have decided that it makes NO sense to build my own spindle - at least not until I have a lathe available so I will buy a commercial spindle. Given my current financial situation I am unable to buy separate spindles for the lathe and milling machine. That is the reason for my posting. I have decided to buy a Taig 3/4-16 spindle as on their lathe (not chuck) and use it for my lathe and my mill. I will then buy a chuck for the lathe and use a collet adapter for the ER16 collets on the mill or lathe. I have a 1 1/3 hp DC and a 1 3/4 hp AC motor available with 5/8" shafts that I will use for the mill and lathe respectively. Yes, I do understand that I might have to go for 1/2 inch shafts to use the standard pulleys. When I have the money I will buy the new mill spindle and use it on the mill. This means that I cannot use the chuck on the mill. I do think this makes sense. ALL opinions welcome. Manfred ------- Re: Lathe chuck for ER16 spindle Posted by: "chuck" chuckelsx~xxverizon.net Date: Mon Aug 5, 2013 3:48 pm ((PDT)) Manfred, you might ask on this forum if anyone has a 3/4-16 spindle for sale cheep than you could buy the factory ER16 spindle for the mill and use the ER collets while using the 3/4 for the lathe head stock with a 3 or 4 jaw chuck. That would eliminate swapping back and forth and possibly causing alignment errors. Chuck ------- Any advice on drilling spindle out to 13/32? [TAIGTOOLS] Posted by: "Gerrit Visser" gerrit308x~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:25 am ((PST)) I find that I am using 3/8 drill rod for more and more items. It would be great to fit this through the spindle. Somewhere I read that 13/32 is the max. Has anyone done this and regretted it? Any challenges to doing this? Gerrit http://hobbies.psgv.ca ------- Re: Any advice on drilling spindle out to 13/32? Posted by: gebowesx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:41 am ((PST)) I bored mine with 'W' drill (nominal = 0.386") and 3/8" drill rod passes through fine. Not sure about 13/32 (0.4063) but it is probably OK. I had read that Taig had confirmed that it is OK to bore to 3/8" http://www.cartertools.com/firsty.html http://www.cartertools.com/fir sty.html (at the bottom of the page) so I stayed as close as possible to still get clearance. Graham ------- Re: Any advice on drilling spindle out to 13/32? Posted by: juangeltx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:02 pm ((PST)) I just put a 3/8 drill in the tailstock (with a speed chuck I used to replace the dead center) and fed that thru the spindle. That gave me a nice sliding fit for 3/8 stock. ------- Mounting a chuck on the drilling tailstock [TAIGTOOLS] Posted by: "The Boorums" smallifex~xxmyfairpoint.net Date: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:04 pm ((PST)) Hello, A friend has acquired a very old duplicating lathe made of Taig parts with a spindle nose that is a male 3/8"-24 thread to fit either an included spur center or a drill chuck. She wants to mount a Sherline 4 jaw chuck onto this headstock and I was wondering if any of you know of an adapter to mount a Taig chuck onto the Taig drilling tailstock? This is an adapter with a male 3/4-16 on one end and a female 3/8-24 on the other. The 3/4" end can be any length but the 3/8" socket has to be deep enough for the tailstock spindle. I could make this but it would be tricky for me with the large threads to form. Thanks, Pete Bedford, NH Pete & Pam Boorum Smaller Than Life www.smallerthanlife.com ------- Re: Mounting a chuck on the drilling tailstock Posted by: "Bill M" semobill4114x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:40 pm ((PST)) Hi, Pete, I made such an adapter as one of my first Taig projects. You can see a picture of it in the photo files section (Stlbill's Photos). It wasn't that difficult. I only had to acquire a 3/8-24 tap. I bought a 3/4-16 X 2 inch bolt at the local hardware store. The bolt I found was hardened. I tossed it in a charcoal fire until it was red hot and allowed it to air-cool. I cleaned it up. Sawed off the head. Faced the end. Drilled and tapped it. I hand filed two flats to facilitate easy removal. I think I used a scrap of thin brass to wrap the thread to protect the chuck jaws. I faced a 3/4-16 nut down to about half its normal thickness to use as a jam nut. It was a fun project for someone just learning to use a lathe. Hope that is helpful. Bill ------- Turning Between Centers [taigtools] Posted by: valkcaptx~xxyahoo.com Date: Mon Jan 6, 2014 9:20 pm ((PST)) I'm still relatively a newbie, and just tried turning between centers. However, I can't figure out how to set it up so that the process is efficient. The cross-slide is so wide, when trying to turn a .75" round stock that is 3.75" long, I can't reach the right hand side of the piece. If I put the tool post on the right hand t-slot, then I get a little more on the right hand side, but I lose on the left hand side. Any ideas? ------- Re: Turning Between Centers Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Mon Jan 6, 2014 10:11 pm ((PST)) Make a replacement dead center that extends farther out. The tailstock on the Taig is a really odd design. Why it leans to the right and not the left is puzzling. See: http://www.cartertools.com/dead%20center.html http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/dead center/deadcenter.html ------- Re: Turning Between Centers Posted by: "Gerrit Visser" gerrit-mlx~xxpsgv.ca Date: Tue Jan 7, 2014 6:19 am ((PST)) One solution used by some is to reverse the tailstock moveble portion. It means a bit of work to keep the tail stock handle functional but if you only need to do this once in a while then that won't matter. Monty Ramon describes this on Carter Tools web site: http://cartertools.blogspot.com/2011/06/monty-remons-notes-on-his-im proved.html Gerrit ------- [Remove broken tap] Old tip for an Newbie -- it really works [Taigtools] Posted by: terryallen2x~xxcox.net valkcapt Date: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:26 pm ((PST)) I decided to do the bearing modification on my steady rest. But when I was tapping for a 5-40 thread in one of the three brass rods in the rest, I broke the tap. I had heard that tap extractors didn't work, and I didn't want to have to mill a replacement part. So discovered what is said to be an old remedy for broken taps: putting the part in boiling water saturated with Alum. I got the pot boiling at the start of King Kong, and by the end of the movie, the broken tap was completely gone, and the hole was clean as a whistle. I had to keep tending the pot and replacing the water every 10 minutes, because the water evaporates so fast. You guys probably already knew this, but for me it was nothing short of a miracle. One more thing. It only works on non-ferrous materials. ------- Re: Old tip for an Newbie -- it really works Posted by: "Pat Goodyear" kf6pbnx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:10 pm ((PST)) Ok the trick I use is a can of quick freeze and a small center punch or pin punch, automatic center punch works the best. Spray the tap with quick freeze until a frost line forms, smack the tap with the punch and hammer and the tap will shatter, pick out the pieces and you can re-tap the hole. Pat ------- Re: Old tip for an Newbie -- it really works Posted by: "Caparo" caparox~xxsaltmine.org.uk Date: Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:57 am ((PST)) Hi, does not matter what the tap is made of if you just weld a T handle to the broken shank. The heat breaks the surface grip and the tap is simply screwed back out and since the tap is now softer does not damage your hard work. I do this a lot with broken studs in motorcycle & car engines too. TTFN Caparo ------- Re: Taig CNC mill [taigtools] Posted by: editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com mrehmus Date: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:54 am ((PST)) I've uploaded (I think) a column clamp that will keep it from moving. Not hard to make but before I'd use it, I'd clean off the paint from the periphery of the two steel disks. It is a 3D PDF so you may need the 'real' Adobe Reader of a recent vintage. Once the column is trammed, tighten this clamp using a torque wrench to max torque on the screws. Then, if the column is slightly off, use a non-marring hammer to put it into alignment. Hammer? Hammer? Yup, that works very well as the joint will slip way before any damage occurs (and you wouldn't whack it that hard anyway, right?). This is the alignment trick with the Sherline lathe. If you cannot get it to cut a cylinder, tap a bottom corner of the headstock with a hammer. Works perfectly. If the clamp PDF doesn't show up, I'll e-mail you one. Just send me a message by clicking on Reply to Sender at the bottom of the e-mail from Yahoo. The file is called Column Clamp.PDF ------- Mill Clamp Designs Uploaded to Files - Mike Rehmus-Mill Column Clamp Posted by: editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com mrehmus Date: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:29 pm ((PST)) I've uploaded two designs that I think will work to firm up the mill column. One design, a circular clamp, would need to be made with more precision than the V-Block design. There are also two 3D PDF files that you will need a recent version of Adobe Reader to manipulate. You can get a new copy of Reader at www.adobe.com/reader Just click on the model to activate the 3D manipulation capabilities. Play with the cross-section tool on the far right of the tool bar that appears when you click on the model. The second selection under the icon will allow you to manipulate the cross-section in detail. ------- [TAIGTOOLS] Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and ver Posted by: editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com mrehmus Date: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:05 pm ((PDT)) I've started on the work to stiffen the rotary joint between the horizontal and vertical square tubing framework of my TAIG mill. The paint has been removed from the edges of the 3.25" disks on both sections of the frame and a high-strength clamp to go around the disk edges has been made (you can see a preliminary design in the Files section. I am almost certain this will stop the column from moving out of plumb. However, the 1/2-13 all-thread rod that holds the joint together is not a good design for three reasons: 1. A coarse thread is not the best choice for clamping the joint. I'm going to thread both ends of a 1/2" rod of 4130 20 TPI on both ends. This will better maintain the higher torque which I will apply to the bolt. 2. The bolt threads into a relatively thin piece of angle iron at the front of the horizontal tube that is only welded to three sides of the tube. The top edge of the angle misses the top of the tube by a 1/4" or so which means it is even more flexible. That thin a metal plate flexes under load and allows the clamping force to lessen under stress. Essentially the bolt cannot be adequately tightened and under an operating load, the plate flexes inward, lowering the clamping force between the two disks in the joint at the back. Unlike the Vertical square tube, which has a round tube inside between the front and rear compression surfaces so the square tube is not distorted by the clamping pressure, the horizontal square tube does not. 3. The all-thread appears to be an off the shelf item and of low strength and it probably stretches significantly under tension. My first thought is to remove the table and ways from the horizontal tube and cut off the front foot/plate and weld on a new, 3/8" thick plate with provision for a mounting foot. My concern is this might distort the tube and throw alignment of the mill table off. I can see that the entire table mechanism is held to the tube with 6-8 SHCS but I'd rather not dismount the mechanism as I may disturb any alignment made by the factory. Alternatively, I could remove the paint (mechanically uneven and also soft) from the front plate and place a steel bar of 1" thickness and 2" width from side to side across the front, boring a hole in the bar to accommodate a 3/4" mild steel tube and running the tube to the backside of the disk welded on the back of the horizontal tube. Then, clamping the 3/4" tube end tightly to the the disk backside by using the old all-thread, weld it to the steel bar at the front, thus assuring the correct front to back spacing of the tube. This addition will prevent any front to back compression when the new bolt is torqued. All of this should firm up that rotary joint quite nicely. I realize the factory may have already fixed this poor design and newer mills might not have this problem but from what I hear on the forums, not so. Any thoughts? I'll post pictures and new drawings when it is all done. ------- Re: Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and Posted by: "Don Rogers" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com campgems Date: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:59 pm ((PDT)) A few comments. First, I too have been quite disappointed with the rigidity of the Z column. I'm taking a different apprioach though. 1. While you can not get the holding torque from the coarse threads that you could get with the finer threads, there have been a number of observations over the years on this group of actually damaging the base from over tightening the ½-13 rod. I think Nick was one who experienced this. You may want to research this before going to a fine thread. 2. The design is not the best. The real answer is to provide a design where everything is under compression vs the mix of compression and tension as it is now. A secondary tube from the front plate the rear flange would satisfy the compression requirement, However it is not something you can accomplish with a retrofit. 3. Although the 1/2x13 threaded rod may be off the shelf stock, it is still strong enough to cause problem if it is over tightened, IE #1. Any welding on the base is going to be and issue. Heat distorts the stock. Concentrated head, IE welding tends to really warp things. A simple thick metal overlay to spread the load would be much easier and less destructive to the structure of the base. IE your alternative proposal which is a better approach with one exception, no welding. My approach is going to be quite different. I picked up a second frame a while back to experiment with. My plan is to simply square the mast to the base, then drill and ream two taper pin dowels locking the base and column flanges. I am using the treaded taper pins so I can easily pull them to tilt the column if ever needed, but I can't imagine a need for that. You need a taper pin reamer and a long aircraft length drill to reach beyond the 2" square column, and a drill press big enough to handle the setup. Also, you will have to use a bit different approach to tramming the head. The column will be locked, so you will have to rely on the slop in the holes for mounting the Z ways to the column. My suggestion here is to get your Z movement square to the table, don't worry about the tram of the spindle now, and then drill and ream the column to base joint for the tapered dowels. Then tram the dove tail so the spindle is true. I'm fairly sure that the two tapered dowels will keep the column from tilting without it trying to shear the pins. There are a number of ways to resolve the tilting column issue. My bet is that an indexing method vs a clamping method will give better results. I've gotten side tracked from that project with replacing all the hinges on my kitchen, baths and laundry room cabinets. This project isn't progressing as fast as I had hoped. Too many 25 year old worn out issues to contend with while refitting the new hinges, but I need to get it finished first. Don ------- Re: Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org pstemari Date: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:30 pm ((PDT)) On 3/27/2014 6:05 PM, editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com wrote: > I can see that the entire table mechanism is held to the tube with > 6-8 SHCS but I'd rather not dismount the mechanism as I may disturb > any alignment made by the factory. The main thing you have to be careful of is torquing the screws evenly in an alternating pattern, just like you would with lug nuts. I wound up shimming mine slightly (0.0015" total) to compensate for a bit of nod in the head, but that process was quite unpredictable until I realized how important it is to torque the screws evenly. I used one finger on the end of the long arm of an Allen wrench; a proper torque wrench would have been better. ------- Re: Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org pstemari Date: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:37 pm ((PDT)) My understanding is that the new bases have a much heavier plug on the front. According to Nick's price list, a replacement base only costs $42, which seems like a steal. I can attest from experience that over-tightening the column will bend that front piece. ------- Re: Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and Posted by: editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com mrehmus Date: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:12 pm ((PDT)) Don, To reply to your points: While you can not get the holding torque from the coarse threads that you could get with the finer threads, there have been a number of observations over the years on this group of actually damaging the base from over tightening the ½-13 rod. I think Nick was one who experienced this. You may want to research this before going to a fine thread. This has apparently been a problem with the older frame and the flimsy front plate. I will reinforce the plate to avoid any problem in this regard. The design is not the best. The real answer is to provide a design where everything is under compression vs the mix of compression and tension as it is now. A secondary tube from the front plate the rear flange would satisfy the compression requirement, However it is not something you can accomplish with a retrofit. Of course one can do a retrofit. Easy to do. Drill out the front thread in the existing plate to allow a tube to be inserted. The tube has to be large enough for the screw to slide inside. From from the new reinforcement plate where the tube is welded solidly, it runs back and solidly contacts the front of the 3.25" disk which is welded to the horizontal frame. With that addition, everything is under compression from the front of the horizontal frame to the back of the vertical column. One will have tension in the screw and strength in all the elements to withstand the compressive forces, turning compression into friction between the disks. The clamp on the outside of the disks will further insure no relative motion between the two. Although the 1/2x13 threaded rod may be off the shelf stock, it is still strong enough to cause problem if it is over tightened, IE #1. The problem is more one of loosening because of the coarse threads. You never find coarse threads in locations where it really counts such as aircraft. Because the high angle (you can think of threads as a variety of cone in this case) of the coarse threads invites loosening. ------- Re: Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and Posted by: "Lester Caine" lesterx~xxlsces.co.uk lscesuk Date: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:09 am ((PDT)) As someone who lugs a machine around on a trolley I must say that I've never had much of a problem with 'slipping'. Even after an accident at Harrogate a few years back, when the whole lot fell off the tail lift, a gentle tap restored accuracy. Of cause what probably helps here is that I've not used the big motor for many years. The Kress unit is much more flexible and does not apply any tangential load ;) Lester Caine - G8HFL Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ------- Re: Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and Posted by: "Steve Blackmore" stevex~xxpilotltd.net Date: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:41 am ((PDT)) The loosening is caused by the plate slowly bending, not the screw loosening off. Put a locking washer and mark the nut, washer and mount with paint. It will still go loose, but the thread won't have moved. The old design was poor. Too flimsy. I've not seen the beefed up version, but one nut is asking for trouble as there is a lot of leverage on that pivot point. Better solutions are additional slots and extra locking screws as in the Sieg SX3 head or if your not bothered about tilting the head, simply tram it, tighten up and drill and pin in two places, or use bolts if you think you "may" tilt the head at some time and want it reversible. Steve Blackmore ------- Re: Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and Posted by: editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com mrehmus Date: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:58 pm ((PDT)) I am almost finished with the modifications. The clamp for the circumference of the 3.25" disks making up the joint has already been completed except for some slight grinding to avoid welds on the vertical and horizontal frames. The welds on the frames will also be slightly dressed to gain more space. I made the clamp 1.2" wide and probably should have made it 1" wide which would allow all the weld and the clamp to remain unground. By removing the entire table mechanisms from the horizontal frame, it was easy to work on the front plate. Bored a 1" hole in the front plate concentric with the existing hole. Observing that the backside of the 3.25" steel disk welded to the horizontal frame was not machined at all. I assume the marks on it are from sawing it off a steel bar. The 3/4" tube on which the swivel joint pivots does not go entirely through the disk. The disk is recessed for the tube and the remainder of the disk has a 5/8" bore through to the interior of the horizontal frame. Made a collar that would fit into the 5/8" bore at the back of the disk and accept a 3/4" tube on the other end. It was drilled through for slightly over 1/2". Fitted a 3/4" steel tube into the collar and inserted the collar/tube combination into the backside of the disk. Marked and cut the tube off slightly 'proud' of the front plate on the horizontal frame. Made another collar to fill the space between the 3/4" tube and the 1" hole we bored in the front plate. TIG welded the tube/collar/front plate together. Now the front plate is supported against compression by being buttressed against the 3.25" disk at the rear of the horizontal frame. Smoothed the face of the front plate and TIG welded a 1/4" thick steel plate across the front plate. A 1/2" hole was already bored in the 1/4" plate. Threaded one end of the 1/2" 4130 steel rod 1/2-20 with space for 2 heavy nuts. Still have to thread the other end of the rod and reassemble everything. I took many pictures during the process and will post them along with drawings as soon as I get the current issue of the magazine put to bed. Just a trial clamping with the clamp alone, the rod not being threaded on the second end tells me that the rotary joint will not slip again unless I hit the vertical column with a sledge hammer. Note: TIG was used because the weld heat is more controllable. Note 2: After disassembling the Horizontal frame from the table mechanism, I measured the squareness of the ground face of the tube where the table mechanism rests and the surface of the disk. Using a large Starrett square, I was not able to detect any light from a bright flashlight, seeping through between the surfaces of the square and the machined surfaces of the flat and the disk. Placing a straight edge on the ground surface, I could not detect 0.0001" of deviation from flat. I'd say that was pretty good work on the part of the factory. Note 3: The above modifications could be made without welding. One could substitute a good epoxy as all the added components are in compression, not tension and there is no forces trying to peel the epoxy off a surface. The clamp could be made by bending a strip of bar stock and bending out tabs into which the bolts could be placed. I did take a brief look at reversing the Y-Axis drive system to place the stepper at the rear of the mill. I think there is just enough room to clear the rotary joint and allow this. ------- Re: Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and Posted by: "Don Rogers" Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com campgems Date: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:42 pm ((PDT)) I have to share the fix for a problem we had in the early 80's with a big computer that was under development. It had some monster voltage bus bars, copper bars about 3/4" thick by 4" wide which bolted to the logic boards. The supplies provided 600 or 800 amps depending on which board you were powering. The big bus bars would be very warm to the touch in normal operations. The problem that showed up was that the copper was deforming around the washer over time and soon they would start arcing. Belleville washers were tried, bigger screws, finer threads, more clamping, but they didn't resolve the problem. The solution was to use much smaller bolts that could stretch as the copper expanded but still provide a grip. As long as the limits of elasticity were not exceeded, and there was sufficient clamping action, and all was well over the thermal ranges that you could expect in a computer room. On the Taig, you have about a 14" length to play with, so there will be about 0.00225" of expansion or contraction over a 30 Deg F temp change. So you can't change the temp swings, but if you go to a 1" screw length, then the temp changes are insignificant. How do you accomplish a 1" screw length, well you drill out the face of the Y base to a little over 3/4", IE clearance for a 1/2" socket head cap screw, NC or NF, your choice. You will need a hex bit extension to reach through to the back of the Y base, but as long as it fits through the hole in the face, you can use a socket head cap screw that will have a very short clamp length 1" may not be the exact length, but in any case, you have totally eliminated the square tube and any face plates to bend and warp on the length of that tube. All you have to worry about is deforming the flange, which is not likely. Something to think about. Don ------- Re: Fixing the ever slipping rotary joint between the horizontal and Posted by: "Ken Cline" clinex~xxfrii.com hfxlhfxl Date: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:38 pm ((PDT)) Since both draw rod and mill base are steel, thermal expansion won't be a problem. Because of its extra stretch, the longer draw might help maintain tension like your thinner screw. ------- Mounting a 3" screwless vise on the lathe milling attachment [TAIGTOOLS] Posted by: gerrit-mlx~xxpsgv.ca gerrit308 Date: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:44 pm ((PDT)) I needed/wanted a better vise for milling on my lathe. Bought a 3" and 1" from Shars. Finally made the mounting for the vise to the vertical milling slide. I might need to make better vise->mounting block washers but the concept is proven. And it doesn't look disproportionately large. Mounting a Screwless Vise on the Taig Lathe | Gerrit's Hobbies http://hobbies.psgv.ca/mounting-a-screwless-vise-on-the-taig-lathe/ ------- A more adjustable z-axis carriage [TAIGTOOLS] Posted by: editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com mrehmus Date: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:35 pm ((PDT)) I found the advice 'squeeze the L-shaped blocks of aluminum by hand' to adjust the z-axis carriage was not working. The adjustment was coarse and it tended to loosen over a short period of time. Look at the picture in the pictures section, (same folder as the name of this posting). I put 10-32 screws in all 4 corners to tighten the L-shaped blocks and set screws adjacent to them to put a tension on them so they would not slip. No more z-axis chatter and the carriage moves smoothly without any play. ------- manual mill power feed [TAIGTOOLS] Posted by: dhillllawx~xxgmail.com hill.dan37 Date: Sat Jul 4, 2015 10:32 pm ((PDT)) I'd like to add a power feed to my mill's X axis. In searching the past conversations the only ones I found regarding the Taig mills were about 15 years old. I'm not experienced with electronics, so a pre-built unit is preferable. If there were any "bolt-on" units specifically for TAIG mills -- like those for some of the small Seig mills -- I suspect I would have discovered them. I could, however, manage machining mounts and couplers and the like if there's a unit that would be a good choice for installation on the Taig mill. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. ------- Re: manual mill power feed Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org pstemari Date: Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:57 pm ((PDT)) You ought to be able to use the CNC coupler and motor mount. Any NEMA 23 motor will fit. I suspect you'll want a gear motor instead of the typical stepper, but it should be only minor assembly and electronics. ------- ER-16 spindle lock [TAIGTOOLS] Posted by: "Boman33" boman33x~xxvinland.com bertho_boman Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:24 pm ((PDT)) I like the ER-16 spindle but having to use two wrenches to change a tool bit is inefficient. There ought to be a built-in lock mechanism so only one wrench is needed. I started to design my own but then to save time I figured many people have already solved this problem. After a lot of googling I still did not find a single one. Any suggestions? Bertho ------- Re: ER-16 spindle lock Posted by: "lobos8403" lobos8403x~xxhotmail.com lobos8403 Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:34 pm ((PDT)) We have a Taig at work. Our resident machinist added a small plunger to one of the t-slots of the spindle extrusion and bored a hole into the largest diameter part of the stock spindle pulley. So when he changes tools he locks the plunger on the hole locking the spindle. Then releases when the spindle is in operation. Only issue would be when your using the largest pulley, it would be unavailable. I can get some pics on Monday. ------- Re: ER-16 spindle lock Posted by: editorx~xxmodelenginebuilder.com mrehmus Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:04 pm ((PDT)) The only problem with the ER-16 setup is the 'normal' closing torque on the nut is 40 Ft-Lbs for collets at or over 1/8" and 30 Ft-Lbs for collets under 1/8". I'd think a simple pin might shear under that load. ------- Re: ER-16 spindle lock Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org pstemari Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:38 pm ((PDT)) Using a pair of 1" service wrenches (e.g. http://amzn.com/B00209XK3I) is much easier than the stamped steel ones Taig provides. I haven't found any in 25mm yet, which isn't really a standard size for metric nuts. Getting proper torque on a typical push button/keyway lock would be difficult. The torque specified for an ER-16 is surprising high (42 ft-lbs). ------- Re: ER-16 spindle lock Posted by: "Jeffrey Birt" birt_jx~xxsoigeneris.com jeff.birt Date: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:17 pm ((PDT)) I’m not sure where this number comes from but 42 ft-pounds is too high. With that much torque you are going to distort the nut. I use a couple of wrenches I cut out from 1/8” thick 6061 aluminum. They are only 6” long and I ‘snug’ the nut up. I can guarantee that I am not using 42 ft-lbs or torque and my bits, even carbide bits, do not slip. Jeff Birt Soigeneris.com ------- Re: ER-16 spindle lock Posted by: "WAM" ajawam2x~xxcomcast.net ajawamnet Date: Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:18 pm ((PDT)) Regofix - inventors of the ER collet - page 119 is the rec'd clamping: http://www.rego-fix.com/fileadmin/user_upload/North_America/Pic tures-Drawings_PDF/Home/Catalog/2015_Updates/RFTC_ER_System.pdf Torque varies with collet size and type. But for the Hi-Q 0.197-0.394 it is 40 ft-lbs... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collet The "ER" collet system, developed and patented by Rego-Fix in 1973, is the most widely used clamping system in the world[3] and today available from many companies worldwide. The standard sizes are: ER-8, ER-11, ER-16, ER-20, ER-25, ER-32, ER-40, and ER-50. "ER" came from an existing "E" collet which Rego-Fix modified and appended "R" for "Rego-Fix". The number is the cavity opening diameter in millimetres. ER collets contract over a range of 1mm and are available in 1mm or 0.5mm steps, so a range of ER collets can hold any cylindrical shank, metric or imperial. ER collets may also be used on a lathe to hold work pieces.[4] ------- Adjusting slop in x axis [TAIGTOOLS] Posted by: "Cary Brief" caryncbreeefx~xxyahoo.com caryncbreeef Date: Thu Dec 3, 2015 11:34 am ((PST)) Hey all haven't posted in a long time have a question about adjusting about a .004 slop in X axis. When I turn the dial in One Direction it's tight but when I go from that tight spot it moves four places before it starts to move the table. On a Bridgeport I know how to take care of it but I'm not sure on this machine any suggestions would be great. Also does anyone have a speed chart for the pullies? I lost my paperwork and don't know what the different speeds are. thanks Cary in Miami ------- Re: Adjusting slop in x axis Posted by: "Jeffrey Birt" birt_jx~xxsoigeneris.com jeff.birt Date: Thu Dec 3, 2015 12:01 pm ((PST)) If you have the adjustable lead nuts you can tighten them up a little and take out most of the backlash. The adjustable nuts used to only come on the CNC machine but in the last couple of years they started putting them on manual machines too. Crank the X axis all the way off and look at the lead nut, if it has a slit and three screws it is adjustable. You can change your machine over to the adjustable lead nuts, http://www.soigeneris.com/taig_z_axis_leadscrew__200_25a-details.aspx http://www.soigeneris.com/taig_x_axis_leadscrew__200_26a-details.aspx This is my website, BTW. I do keep these in stock. Jeff Birt Soigeneris.com ------- Re: Adjusting slop in x axis Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Thu Dec 3, 2015 12:32 pm ((PST)) Here's how to adjust the nuts: http://www.cartertools.com/nutback.html felicex~xxcasco.net is Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein. ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------