There are toolholders for the Taig and Sherline lathes and milling machines available directly from the manufacturers and their dealers. There are also third party toolholders. Additionally, many owners have made their own from plans or ideas shared with other readers of the respective groups. A wise owner may also look at all designs available out there, including toolholders designed for far larger machines (including obsolete ones), and adapt/invent a model to work on the little machines. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. 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(c) Copyright 2003 - 2007 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:42:36 -0000 From: "Richard " Subject: Re: Diamond Toolholder Paul,Here are the angles used for the one shown, and I am sure they can be fine tuned. I will work on this and let you know the results. The tool bit leans forward at a 15 degree angle(the front edge of the block was cut at 15 degrees). The slots are all at 15 degrees which I think is the least amount that will allow facing cuts. The reason for two slots is you can cut right to left or the other direction. I use 1/8 inch HSS bits ground to look like a "diamond", not too scientific but it works for me. Richard ------- Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:39:21 -0000 From: "Richard " Subject: Re: Freeby toolholder was diamond toolholder The block dimensions are: 2 1/4" wide,7/8" high and 1 1/2" deep. The slots were cut on a miller with an end mill, but could just as well be cut using a slitting saw. When in use the holder must be mounted on the cross slide without the compound installed. The unsupported tool above the block will be about 5/16" high. Richard ------- Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:39:52 -0000 From: "Lawrence Keating" Subject: Re: interesting QC tool post [taigtools group] "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" wrote: > Did you see the picture of the one Laurie Keating made, that's up in my > pictures page? > > From: Tom Benedict > > I'm not looking at it so much as a $160 toolpost as I'm looking > > at it as a "that'd be neat to make" project. Look at the Zero-It > > indicator holders. New those things cost quite a bit. I used the plans from the Houston Metal Shop Club website to build my "Zero-It" type Indicator Holder (http://web.wt.net/~hmsc/indhold/hldr1.htm). Good plans and pretty straight forward to build. Hey - if I can do it, anybody can do it! As for tool holders, I'm just working on a holder of my own design (I saw the concept in an English magazine - Model Engineer's Workshop I believe). I'm using a 1" dia x 2" long steel bar as a post. It has a 13/64" dia hole thru the middle for a 10-32 UNF clamping bolt. The bottom has a 3/4" dia x 1/64 deep counterbore to ensure the post sits flush and solid on the cross slide. The tool holder is a 2" long x 1-1/2" wide x 1" thick aluminum block. I bored a 1" dia hole thru the middle so it will slide over the post. I will cut a vertical slot on one end thru to the bore and use a 10- 32 UNF bolt running from front to back to clamp the holder to the post. The other end will have a 1/4" wide x 9/32" deep slot to hold a 1/4" tool bit. Two 10-32 UNF cap screws will clamp the bit in place (same as the Taig toolholder). I will tap a 10-32 UNF hole vertically thru the holder to hold a height adjustment screw. I'll slightly round the end of the screw so it doesn't scratch up the cross slide - maybe even use a brass screw?? If the concept proves out, I'll make up a handful of holders and preset the heights for the different bits I use. All I have to do to swap bits is loosen the clamping screw on the holder, remove it, add the next holder, tighten it's clamping screw and make chips. The one drawback is that it does take a bit more space than the Taig tool holder. For the majority of my work, this probably won't be a problem. For the rest, I can use the Taig toolholder. It's hard to describe in words but if it works, I can probably post a couple of simple drawings. Hope to know if it works by the end of the weekend. ------- Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:06:17 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: interesting QC tool post I made a toolpost like this for my Jet920, and found that getting the parting tool lined up was a slight pain, but the ability to also get a threading tool perfectly aligned was nice. I now have a KDK holder on my Jet and although I have it set so that when I pop in a parting tool it's at 90 deg, I have to loosen the body of the holder when aligning a threading tool (or a 90 deg. shoulder tool) Granted one doesn't need to align a threading tool on the Taig (except for Tony) but I think both designs have their advantages and disadvantages. On the one I built I had a washer/shoulder on the bottom of the post, that the height adjustment screw rode on - if I were to do it again I would make the shoulder of the screw top ride on the top of the post. ------- Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:35:15 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Re: interesting QC tool post Randy is completely correct in this, but I'd like to dig in a bit more. Maybe we can come up with a generic Taig size lathe QCTP that addresses say 90% of our needs. No QC toolpost is repeatable with respect to the cutting edge - centerline distance across multiple tools unless all of the tools are installed with identical overhang, or the overhang measured for each holder and calculated into the settings, as in CNC applications - even if the rotation is restricted. A single tool is naturally repeatable (ignoring edge erosion/wear) if installed exactly the same, which is where the rotation issue comes in. Restricting rotational range also ensures that the cutting edge actually ends up on the centerline as a steeply ground tool will drift down as rotated out of the angle it was set on centerline with. Not an issue with most carbide tooling, but a real issue with certain HSS edge configurations. The main benefit for the person making one-off parts is skipping the shimming on each tool change. If you are making multiple parts by cutting to a series of dial settings using multiple tools to complete most or all of the work in a single chucking then the repeatability becomes a critical factor. In most non production uses, we reacquire the edge on each tool change anyway. Perhaps the drop on holders and the post base could have an alignment pin to provide this. Making the pin removable would allow it to be used as needed without limiting the ability to vary the angle of edge presentation. Using the Taig style toolposts you could restrict rotation by providing locating strips on the top of the cross slide. Actually a single strip and a stop rod would do it. Having the cut off and grooving tools always aligned would be sweet! I guess the way to cover all bases would be: 1) A tool post that always is mounted, or is referenced to two edges of the cross slide. 2) An optional alignment pin if the toolholders mount on a cylindrical post. 3) A small jig to allow quickly mounting all or at least most tools with identical overhang, which could also be built to set up centerline height in the toolholder, unless the toolholder will incorporate an adjustable stop for this as in the Aloris style toolposts. I think the adjustable stop is preferable, this way we don't even bother with shims. 4) As an alternative, don't allow any rotation and go with a wedge style GC. The Sakai style would be faster to build than the Aloris style I'd think. I don't think there would be room for a lockable pivot plus the wedge style post plus the toolholder on a Taig size lathe, although you could easily fit this on a 9x20 or larger if you removed the compound and used the toolpost instead of the compound. This would make screw cutting a pain though. I'll look into this, perhaps there is a way to do a Sakai style with a lockable pivot in a Taig size. 5) No matter what - it's got to be RIGID. I've messed with enough lathes that flex like overcooked spaghetti, my Jet BD920N compound is a source of chatter on heavy cuts. Darn - now you all have given me another project to tinker with! I'll never finish the current mill engine at this rate :-) Stan. ------- Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 23:24:20 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Re: interesting QC tool post Paul and group; I think you're right about winter coming on! There are a number of QCTPs that exist for the lathe, but the original Taig TP is so easy to change and so cheap the motivation just isn't there for me if the only result is quickly changing tools. If I have to deal with a cap screw simply to change holders anyway, using the default style holders seemed OK to me - UNTIL TODAY (ominous sound track rises from back of theater...theme from "Jaws" seems to be coming from the garage...) I'd looked at Lawrence Keatings very nice tool post in the files area, Nick Carter's nice holders, as well as a number of toolpost drawings at several sites. They all look good, the temptation to build one was there, but I'm conditioned to a four way or an Aloris style. I might even knock out a quick and dirty four way on a base for the Taig just to try it out, perhaps a prototype in aluminum. I really don't like 4 way holders - too many sharp tips hanging out in mid-air where fingers and forearms can get poked or sliced - I'm just used to them. ;-( The mention of rotation in Randy Gordon-Gilmores' comment to Lawrence Keatings' post got me thinking about a real TP that would provide the benefits of an Aloris style in a Taig size. Zero shift of toolbit centerline from holder to holder, solid chatter free mounting, NO shims, easy setting of cutting edge to centerline, and a variety of tool holder styles, including a diamond style on an interchangeable mount, without giving BayCom $100. I just made some measurements and have some thoughts: The height from the top of the cross slide to the bottom of a shimmed 1/4 in. toolbit is about 0.988. The Taig toolpost is about 1 inch square by 1.75 inches high. The base of a new QCTP doesn't have to be mounted with a single screw, in fact mounting it to the tee slots at several points would likely be a good idea. The upright column could be located between the tee slots, secured to a base plate around 1/4 inch thick. The base could even be keyed to the tee slots, as some mill vises and fixtures are. The column could be about 1.5 inches high. A clamping dovetail style body could then mount to the column, and be clamped on. This could be a cap screw/handle tightening down into the column, or a clamp on via slit body, either would work. I'm leaning towards clamping the body down via a top cap screw/washer arrangement, this would leave both sides for the toolpost body free for female dovetails. This would allow the tool post QC mechanism to be locked in place without optional keys/pins/whatever as suggested in my original post. When needed the clamping body of the QCTP could be loosened and rotated. The tool holders would be about 1X1X1.5 with a male dovetail, clamped by a tightening female dovetail as in the Sakai tool posts. The individual tool holders would have height setting screws that would bear against the top of the wedge body - say good-bye to beer can shims, sharp edged brass strips, all the rest of the shimming junk. Tool holder blanks could be made in quantity, by cutting the male dovetail on a long piece of bar stock, then cutting the blanks to length and finishing them. This is just a thought experiment so far, but one possible problem would be getting a mounting point for tool holders on the clamp body to support boring tools at the front without the extra meat needed interfering with the maximum swing of the lathe in its as delivered configuration when a tool holder is mounted on the side as for normal turning tasks. This might reintroduce the locating pin idea, not to the tool holder, but from the column base to the toolpost body. This would allow the toolpost to be removed, a boring bar holder clamped to the column in its place, then the tool post could be accurately remounted. A bolt on boring bar holder is another scenario - I can visualize it -an "L" shaped hunk that is cap screwed to the clamp front and wraps around the tail stock side of the TP body, but it just doesn't feel elegant - it feels like a kludge. If a locating pin is needed, I think a vertical pin would be the simplest and easiest approach. A keyway might be better, but would require a broach - pricey if you don't have one in the correct size, even more pricey if you need the press as well. The goal here is to come up with a design we all could replicate, although I'm thinking a mill will be needed, or at a minimum a milling attachment for the lathe. Yes, there are other ways to broach a keyway - jigsaw blades in guides, ramming a toolbit through the bore - I've done them all, and when time came to make pulleys for the old SB13, I bought broaches and guides. Doing internal broaching in steel, particularly long internal keyways, just doesn't work well for me with cobbled together methods. In this size, I like the clamping dovetail approach of the Sakai better than the plunger approach of the Phase II QCTPs or the expanding dovetail/wedge approach as used by Aloris. The JET uses a spring loaded pawl to provide locating when you spin the 4 way toolpost. It seems the pawl is never in the right place, is hard enough it roughs up the bottom of the tool holder itself, and it seems I always want to rotate the toolpost just the way the pawl (which can rotate) has oriented itself to prevent. Your spring loaded ball/detent approach would not be a locking locator (but I think it would provide locating just fine - good thought!), and certainly would reduce and/or eliminate the other problems. I'm going to take a closer look at the QCTP at the Houston clubs site, George Carlson drew up a nice one for larger lathes, and look at Nick's holder drawings again. No doubt some good ideas to be had from both of these sources. If you see something I've overlooked so far, please let me know. It seems several of us are getting interested in this little project - between us we may just come up with a winner. Oh well - back to jamming code, there's a deadline on the horizon! Stan. ------- Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:55:38 -0000 From: dmockx~xxclarion.edu Subject: Re: lathe question - (Compound slipping) > also, has anyone made a compound slide for their Taig? > >>Taig makes a compond for the Taig Lathe, I have not had too much luck > with fitting the compound to the table or holding it securely even tho > Taig states to use a piece of paper under it, it seems not a > good fit, but does make a nice addition to the drilling tailstock. Chris: Used to have problems also with the compound slipping. Now I use a spare tool holder on the cross slide placed next to the compound slide to steady things. No more slipping. Don ------- Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 18:27:42 -0000 From: "Lawrence Keating" Subject: Re: Quick Change Tool Post Drawings "Robin " wrote: > Hey Lawrence, > Nice design. I have a concern though. There's no way to keep the > orientation of the tool after it's removed. Perhaps this isn't a > major problem, but for those doing some type of small production > work, it would be helpful to be able to drop your tool in the exact > same position after removing it. A valid point for anyone doing production type work. However, most of my stuff (at least right now) is one-off so I kept it as simple as possible. Besides which, it never even crossed my mind!! ;) > Also, I'm wondering if it's such a great idea to make the tool holder out of aluminum. Because the tool holder will have to be clamped repeatedly, perhaps it should be made of steel to prevent the threads from failing too quickly. Taig uses threaded holes in several of their aluminum components that get used frequently but don't seem to give any problems eg. tailstock, milling vise, etc. As long as one doesn't start using a Johnson bar to tighten the clamp, it should work fine. A little lubricant on the threads will help prevent any galling. > All those things aside, I think you really hit a good idea. The ease > of manufacturing coupled with the ease of use is brilliant. Not that > I'm particularly well-versed in the world of QC toolposts, but I must > say I've never seen anything like your design. Actually, the idea for this design came from a back issue of Model Engineer's Workshop (British magazine). The article described making a similar QC tool post for a Myford. When I saw it, the ol' light bulb went "Click". > And one tiny thing about your drawing :) It doesn't say the height of > the aluminum tool holder. I'm assuming it's 1"? Aaargh!!! I don't know how many times I looked at the drawings - and still missed a dimension! Yes - 1" is the correct value. I've uploaded a new detail drawing that shows the dimension. In my old design/drafting days, we always checked other people's drawings, never our own. Now I know why!:) ------- Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:14:03 -0800 From: Mark Fraser Subject: Cutoff Tool Holder I bought a Sherline lathe from Cardinal Engineering years ago, and Roland (I assume) had made a great holder. Block of Al, shallow recess in side for cutoff blade, slot from center of that across block about 3/4 of the way, hole down center for hex cap screw mating with Tnut. Keep your eyes open for carbide tipped saw blades - the thinner the better, and probably the smaller the teeth, the better, cutoff blades can be easily "removed" from the sawblade using Dremel cutoff disks. If you have a green grinding wheel, give the carbide tip some relief (narrower away from the cutting tip). The top of the Al. block flexes just enough to grip the blade. I think Roland may have "sort of" cut a bit of a dovetail into the groove for the blade, but can't remember. Just my $0.0154 (about 2 cents Canadian) Mark ------- Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:49:31 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Plastools Indexable insert holder Maury Grudza wrote: >> I just purchased an insert tool holder fabricated by Plastools Co. at the Cabin Fever Show last weekend. The tool is designed to hold TNMG-222 inserts for the Taig and Sherline lathes. The tool holder presents the insert with both negative back and side rake angles. At the show a gentlemen demonstrated the use of the tool on a Sherline, and it worked fine. My attempts with it have been less desirable. Does anybody have any experience with this tool holder on a Taig. Your help is greatly appreciated. Maury: I can't verify the performance of these cutters on the Taig, although I was quite surprised to see them specifying 222 series inserts for machines this small, I'd think 221 would be more appropriate, at least for use on steel. I purchased one of these toolholders (right hand, not the turn and face - much of my work includes working to a shoulder) in 1/2 inch size at Cabin Fever and just tried it on some one inch 1018 and also on some 3/4 inch drill rod. The finish quality was on par with that provided by TPMM 321 inserts on standard holders, giving nice long spiral cuttings. This was on the 9x20 in my shop, running 1000 RPM, with a power feed rate of 0.005 per revolution. Cut depths from 30 thou to 2 thou were tested. I was able to take a pass with a 60 thou depth of cut with the plastool holder and get a good cut, cuts this deep with a TPMM series insert in a standard holder often trash the insert. All test cuts were done dry. If you are new to using carbide, be aware that carbide cuts best when it is cutting, not rubbing. It likes to cut fast and HOT. If the swarf is not coming off smoking and blue you're cutting too slow in most cases. I have used some brazed carbide with small radius tips (about a 221 equivalent I guess) with good results, but feeding it hard enough on the Taig can be a problem. Most work on the Taig is done with M2, 5% cobalt or 10% cobalt 1/4 inch tooling ground to shape and honed. Be sure you have the cutting tip on centerline, if it is above or too far below the results will stink. I'd suggest chucking up a piece of 1 inch steel, setting the speed to 1000 to 1500 RPM and cutting hard, with about a 5 thou depth of cut. Keep your tool overhang as minimal as you can and play around with the feed rate. Some steels cut gummy, they are a real pain. Use a nice cutting steel for these tests, preferably a non leaded steel so you can get long enough cuttings to judge the cut well. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance to test the toolholder on the 13 inch SB, I'm in the midst of grinding the chuck jaws on this lathe at the moment, so it is out of commision for a day or so. Stan ------- Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:39:11 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: 3/8 toolpost? [MODIFYING CURRENT TOOLHOLDER ON TAIG LATHE TO USE 3/8 INCH BITS] You won't really be able to utilize the full cutting width that a 3/8" bit affords, but if you have a bunch of 3/8" bits, then sure, use them. They take a lot longer to grind though. Also you may end up hitting the center clamp hole of the toolpost. I guess what I'm saying is that you can, but you probably shouldn't. http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:24:46 -0000 From: atkinonx~xxhotmail.com Subject: Re: 3/8 toolpost? The 3/8" tool post can still be used to hold 1/4" bits. The Taig tool posts are cheap enough that you could buy and modify as needed. I myself have seven front and two back tool posts all configured differently. Big Chips! Forrest ------- Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 02:26:49 EST From: tadici283x~xxcs.com Subject: Re: of compounds, quick change tool holders and elevated headstocks In a message dated 2/15/2002, stevejacksonx~xxbigfoot.com writes: > I would like to add a compound and a quick change tool holder. > Has anyone done this? I seems that one would have to elevate the > headstock to compensate for the combined increase in tool height > from the compound and the tool post. Thanks Steve Taig makes a nice compound, although mine went into my Tailstock project that I talked about a long time ago, I could not find enough use for it, and due to the fact that I need slow and sensitive drilling I placed it into my Taig tailstock for a crank feed and standard plunge feed that came with the Tailstock this lead to 3 1/2 inches of drilling movement. As far as a quick change tool holders, Taig makes tool holders that are inexpensive to purchase and it is just as easy to mount your favorite tools and just switch the whole tool holder so that shimming is already done, many of us have made our own tool holders, I have made one for 3/8 tooling due to the fact that I have hundreds of 3/8 inches tools, sort of "don't raise the bridge, lower the river". If you do make one of these tool holders, I can pass on a good tip, when you mill out the grove for the tool bit make it larger in both directions up and down and then drill and tap 6 holes on the under side along the milled out area, then place six set screws and you can adjust the height of the tool bit and never have to shim again. I have been using this system for 20 years with good results; my tool holder is a boring bar holder reversible combo and is approx. one and one half inches long. Anyway just a thought. Best Regards, Chris DiCintio Bradenton FLA ------- Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:12:26 -0000 From: "toddfoh" Subject: 3/8" toolholder experiment results I just finished an experiment making 3/8" toolholders from blank arbors. I started by benchmarking my Taig lathe and Taig mill with my test indicator. This is a -.015/0/+.015 indicator with .0005 resolution. For readings just above or below a line, I use the convention of "+" or "-" following the reading. For example, .0015+ means the needle read higher than .0015, but less than halfway to .0020. My recording scheme would go: .0000, .0000+, .0005-, .0005, .0005+, and so on... I measured the runout of three surfaces on the lathe and mill spindles: the OD of the register, the ID of the 30 deg taper, the face of the shoulder above the register where the blank arbor seats. register taper shoulder mill .0005- .0005- .0005 lathe .0000+ .0000+ .0005 This shows that both the mill and lathe are pretty darn good as far as their reference features go. First I wanted to try making a holder by just drilling and reaming. My sequence of operations is as follows: - prepare the blank arbor with wrench flats and tapped #10-32 cross hole - center drill - drill 1/4" - drill 31/64" - ream .375 I measured the runout in the resulting bore to be .0015. I then installed a cutter and measured the runout on the exposed shank to be .0015. Next I removed the arbor from the lathe and installed it on the mill. The runout on the exposed cutter shank was .0025. I deemed this to be unacceptable. Second, I prepared five blank arbors with: - wrench flats and cross holes - center drill - drill 5/32" - drill 11/32" - bore to .368" I removed the arobor and did the same on the next until they were all done. Then I reinstalled the first, measured the bored ID, reamed to .375, took measurements and moved to the next. Here are the results: bore ream shank on mill #1 .0005 .0005 .001 .0015+ #2 .0005 .001 .0005 .002 #3 .0005 .001- .001- .0015 #4 .0005 .002+ #5 .0005 .002+ Things to note: - Boring gives great runout. If you can manage to hold the ID, just boring alone would be best. Getting that ID just right without going oversize is tough though. - Moving from the lathe spindle to the mill spindle can really mess things up. - Something happened when I reamed the last two arbors that really messed up the reaming operation. I'm not totally sure what it was. I suspect that the OD's were off with respect to the register, and that threw them out of balance. I cannot prove this, however. In the future I will include a "turn to consistant OD" step as part of the early preparation. Hopefully this raw data will be helpful to someone out there. #4 and #5 were not wasted. I opened #4 out to be a 1/2" toolholder. #5 became a holder for a centerfinder that was just over .375" OD. Both of these were bored to size. I now have 5 or 6 crappy 3/8" blank arbors that these replaced. The old ones will become 1/2" tool holders, or whatever else comes along. Todd F. ------- Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:15:02 -0500 From: wmbrady Subject: Re: 3/8" toolholder experiment results toddfoh Wrote: >I just finished an experiment making 3/8" toolholders from blank arbors. Thanks Todd, very useful information. I had already come to two conclusions that you verified: 1. the arbors must be dedicated to a particular spindle. 2. the blank arbors need to be turned and faced on that spindle as an initial step. I also came to the conclusion that for best accuracy, use collets when possible. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 38°51'30"N 76°41'00"W ------- Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 19:45:48 -0000 From: "tomrobinett" Subject: sherline end mill holder I bought a Sherline 3/8 end mill holder for mt taig end mill from some post that i have read on here. the problem I have is that it does not run true there is enough that it is noticable to my eye. the holder just screws on to the shaft correct? also i bought some 3/8 end mills from enco and was suprised when the double ended mill would not slide up inside the shaft enough to lock the set screw down on the flat. is there something wrong wwith the holder or my mill or just me? any help is appreciated. thanks tom ------- Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 00:30:40 -0500 From: "Don Feinberg" Subject: Re: sherline end mill holder Yes, the Sherline just screws up on to the Taig's arbor. But, because the clearance inside the Taig spindle is less than 3/8, when you put a 3/8 endmill into it, you have a choice: 1) Before putting the Sherline arbor onto the mill's arbor, install the endmill and tighten down on the flat. Then run the Sherline onto the Taig spindle as far as it will go -- tighten and use. 2) Run the Sherline up all the way on the Taig arbor -- insert the endmill as far as possible. However, you won't be able to tighten the screw down on the flat -- the endmill won't be far enough "into" the holder. Either way works. I've tried both, and I use method (1) above. It works fine for me. And, on my mill, the runout of the Sherline is less than 0.001". Don Feinberg ------- Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:35:32 -0000 From: "n3xve" Subject: Re: sherline end mill holder > I bought a Sherline 3/8 end mill holder for mt taig end mill I can't speak for the Sherline endmill holder but I have had a similar experience with the inexpensive end mills from Enco. I made my own end mill holder from a Taig blank arbor drilled and reamed to 3/8". Most of the end mills I use fit nicely with a "suction" fit but occasionally I get some of the cheap end mills that just don't fit. I've also had one double end mill that didn't fit in one direction but did in the other. Enco is pretty good about replacing defective parts - I had one double end mill that somehow missed being ground on one end. They replaced it no questions asked. Ed ------- Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 19:43:01 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: sherline end mill holder The Sherline mill spindle is about 0.1 inches shorter than the Taig. You'll have to make a spacer to fit between the mill holder and the end of your spindle so the Sherline holder can register against something that is solid. When Using the Taig arbors on my Sherline tools, I remove about 0.1 inches and everything works well.. As far as double ended mills, most likely the Taig has a smaller internal bore than the Sherline tools, so you may be stuck using single ended tooling. Jerry ------- Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:34:57 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Sherline endmill holder > Run the Sherline up all the way on the Taig arbor > -- insert the endmill as far as possible. However, you won't be able > to tighten the screw down on the flat Before putting the endmill into the holder paint it with some tool bluing. Insert as far as possible and tighten down the set screw. Now remove it. You should be able to see where the screw contacted the endmill. Grind your own flat with dremel or other such grinding arrangement. Repeat with the other end of the endmill. Or skip the bluing step and just tape the endmill at the holder opening once inserted and set and measure from the tape to the set-screw. Now remove and use the measurement from the tape to the set-screw location to locate your flat. Ken Jenkins ------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 04:26:14 -0000 From: "rmteo12 " Subject: Quick Change Toolpost set for Sherline Lathes Available for Sherline, Taig, Atlas (6x18) and import 7x10/12 lathes. All holders are height adjustable (no shims required). Set comprises Quick Change Toolpost, 2 turning holders and a boring bar holder. Optional Cut-off holder available. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rmteo/_wsn/page2.html TS ENGINEERING INC. 1329 Sherman Drive Longmont, CO 80501 (720) 652-9140 ------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 04:57:06 -0000 From: "Les_Grenz " Subject: Re: Quick Change Toolpost set for Sherline Lathes I recently acquired one of these for my Sherline lathe. Of all the accessories I have for the Sherline this QCTP is the handiest of all. Les http://www.lesgrenz.homestead.com/homepage.html ------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 01:28:50 -0800 (PST) From: Tony Crowe Subject: Re: Quick Change Toolpost set for Taig Lathes Looks nice bit of an overkill for a taig. A lot cheaper just to have lots of taig tools posts. I have 7 and they are very quick to change over. ------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:44:53 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Quick Change Toolpost set for Taig Lathes Absolutely. You can get a bunch of Taig toolposts for the price of a QC post, then you can keep all of your tools ready shimmed to height in their own post. Regards, Tony ------- Date: 04 Mar 2003 19:59:25 +0900 From: Mark Thomas Subject: Re: Quick Change Toolpost set for Taig Lathes I don't think it's overkill, it depends on your approach to using the lathe. I've also gone the way of multiple tool posts in the past, all shimmed correctly, I've also built some rocker tool posts out of Taig posts, however, a QC tool post offers another convenience which can't be ignored. Once you set up a tool in its holder, you not only eliminate the need for shims you also know exactly how far the tool projects on the axis. Originally I thought that it would mostly be a help under CNC conditions (which it is), however I find now since I have built mine that the advantage of having a left hand, a right hand, and a center tool (for example)all set up for not only proper cutting height but also set up for the same depth of cut is an incredible time saver even when machining by hand. I don't need to worry about positioning the tool post itself on each tool change. As long as the post itself stays anchored on the cross side I know exactly where each tool will be once mounted. I'm not writing this to endorse any commercial product, as I've said, I've built my own, and am now about a third of the way through describing the procedure for building one on my web site. If I compare cost, the materials are much less than what I have spent on the multiple Taig posts in the past. Custom holders are simple to make for the QCTP, the boring bar holder I made for the post took less than 30 minutes, the stand alone boring bar holder I made originally took probably half a day. My feeling right now is that it is the singular most productive tool I have made to date for the lathe. One of the big advantages is that I can now spend more time cutting and much less time setting things up, that for me is important as I don't have nearly enough time to cut metal as I'd like to. So make one, buy one, I think it's a valuable addition. Cheers, Mark http://home.inter.net/mthomas/quick_change_tool_post.htm ------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:30:43 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Quick Change Toolpost set for Taig Lathes >ignored. Once you set up a tool in its holder, you not only eliminate >the need for shims you also know exactly how far the tool projects on >the axis. I take your point - that is an advantage. Maybe I'll get around to it one day ... Regards, Tony ------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:29:04 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Quick Change Toolpost set for Taig Lathes The one big advantage a QC toolpost has over the "lotsa Taig toolposts" approach is that you can set tool height, and position. Swapping tools and swapping back means the original tool goes right back to its original position. Not a big deal on a manual lathe, but it gets to be a big deal on a CNC lathe. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:23:50 -0000 From: "Chet R Biggerstaff" Subject: Tool post holds tools about an 1/8th" to low? I was given a Taig lathe for Xmas and I put it together but the tool post is WAY below the center of the axis. It does not matter which way I put the tool in, the post is still about a little less than 1/8" below center axis. What is going on? What would cause the tool to be so low? How can I fix? Thanks ------- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:37:52 +0000 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Tool post holds tools about an 1/8th" to low? You will need to pack shims of a suitable thickness under the tool to raise the cutting edge to centre height. This is a normal procedure for lathes that do not have adjustable toolposts. The toolposts are pretty cheap, so it is worth getting some spares so that you can avoid having to mess with the shims every time you change tools. Also, worth storing each tool with its set of shims so that you don't have to work it out each time. The shims go under the tool, in the slot in the toolpost, not under the toolpost. The shims should be the same width as the tools (probably 1/4" in your case) and about an inch long. Cut them from whatever you have to hand that is of a suitable thickness - you can buy purpose made "shim stock" but that can be expensive; try strips of aluminium from Coke cans, thin brass sheet sold for model making, heavy gauge aluminium foil, thin sheet steel ... whatever you have available. The thinner stuff will cut nicely with heavy scissors/light tin snips. You know when the tool is on centre height - a facing cut across the end of a piece of bar stock will leave no "pip" in the centre. If it leaves a pip, measure the pip diameter with a micrometer; half the measured diameter tells you the thickness of the shim to add. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:15:58 -0700 From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." Subject: Re: Tool post holds tools about an 1/8th" to low? One of the best sources of cheap shims is to get sets of automotive feeler gauges from Harbor Freight or Enco when they are on sale. Just disassemble the set and you have a pile of leaves marked with the thickness. A pair of those cheap, cut pennies in half scissors (obtained from the same sources) will cut them to any size you want. I bought several sets the last time I saw them on sale. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO ------- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 21:00:42 -0000 From: "Art" Subject: Re: Tool post holds tools about an 1/8th" to low? If you go to a tool store and find a counterman with a little gray hair showing, he may remember when engines had ignition points. Ask him for an "ignition point guage" and it should have blades 1/4" wide and aprox 1 3/4" long. As well as being better material than tin or brass, they will be marked as to thickness and have a hole in one end to hang on a nail, put on a wire loop or just leave in the original holder until needed. You may have to find a Snap-on, Mac Tool or other non import tool dealer, and pay a little more but it's well worth it in the long run. The home made ones will do the same job, the choice is yours. Art ------- NOTE TO FILE: Wondering how this file just got a 2005 date when the last message was in 2004? Just moved some older messages regarding Taig/ Sherline toolholders here. They had been buried in other files. Also, I sometimes clean up a file of obsolete information and tighten the format to read or print better. Not fun, but there are rainy days. ------- Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 19:15:26 -0600 From: "Tim Goldstein" Subject: Re: Re: Report on Modification to TS Engineering QCTP for Taig >>I guess I have been on another planet, but is the AtoZ QCTP the same as the TS Engineering QCTP I already have? The messages seem to use the names interchangeably.<< No, they are made by different companies. The A2Z CNC version is quite similar with some design refinements that allow us to offer the deluxe hard anodized version at a retail price of $75.00 versus the TS version with a retail of $105 for the Taig model. Contrary to Derek's (the new owner of the TS tool post line) insinuation you will find our quality to be as good or better than the TS version. We also occasionally offer a non-anodized silver version on E-Bay for $49.99. We make our products on brand new Haas CNC equipment in our own facility and the tool posts are machined form billet 6061 T651 aluminum. In addition to the tool posts we are rapidly expanding the line to include other machine accessories. One that has raised some interest is an end mill holder for Taig and a corresponding version for Sherline that have a 7/8" hex on them to allow easy removal. Other than bagging them I now have 3/8" and 1/2" for Taig in stock as well as 3/8" for Sherline. Just as a point of interest, these are not machined from hex stock. They are produced from 1" round stock and the hex is cut on with live tooling on the lathe. You can get details as well as place orders on our site. Tim A2Z CNC 1530 W Tufts Ave Unit B Englewood CO 80110 timx~xxA2ZCNC.com www.A2ZCNC.com USA made accessories for desktop mills & lathes. Specialized tools for the jewelry industry. ------- Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 16:01:02 -0600 From: "Tim Goldstein" Subject: Re: Re: Report on Modification to TS Engineering QCTP for Taig >> I would be getting the same problem associated with the other various models of the QC toolpost of similar design; namely the twisting under load problem which has been known for as long as I've been seeing them. Yet, not one design that I've come across has addressed this often cited shortcoming of the design.<< Lynn: Design and production are very interesting things and sometimes hard to understand when looking at a single application. My experience with the twisting problem is that it only occurs when you are locking and unlocking a tool and not when you are actually cutting. Others may have had different experience, but that is mine. Secondly, the problem is limited to primarily the small mounting bolts which means Taig and Sherline. On a Sherline the T-nut for the tool post is a special unit with a very long thread length. On that unit you can actually tighten it enough to eliminate the twisting. You do have to be careful as a little too tight and you can crack the t part of the nut. Taigs on the other hand have very little thread engagement on the t-nut and the nut and/or bolt will strip before you can really tighten it down. So, the problem is really related to just Taig installations. Of course if you own a Taig it is considered a huge problem. But in the realm of things, Taig installations are a small portion of the sales base for this product. The #1 seller is with a 10mm bolt for the 7 X crowd and they don't have a rotation problem. Another consideration is that there are some relatively simple methods to eliminate the problem with the current design. One of the simplest that is also very effective is copy paper shims between the post and spacer and then the spacer and the bed. The paper engages the surfaces and make it quite slip free. So now the problem is down to the point where a decision has to be made as to whether a change that would increase the production cost and selling price and only be appreciated by a tiny number of consumers would be beneficial or not for the product as a whole. At this point my decision has been that the lower $75 price point we are at is more beneficial for the product as a whole. But with all this said, I will look into the possibility of making the spacer have holes for 2 t-nuts and then use a larger bolt to attach the toolpost to the spacer. Mounting kits with larger bolts are already something we have for other machines and making a specialized Taig spacer with additional machining may be low enough in additional cost that we can amortize it across the range and not affect any pricing. Hummmm...... Just as a point of interest, Taig itself has become an A2Z CNC dealer and is adding my toolpost to their product line soon. Their initial shipment just went out to them. If any others are interested in becoming a dealer contact me directly. Our requirements are easy to meet if you are in the reselling business and hard if you are not. Thanks for the input. It is invaluable for development. Tim A2Z CNC 1530 W Tufts Ave Unit B Englewood CO 80110 timx~xxA2ZCNC.com www.A2ZCNC.com ------- Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:00:00 -0500 From: "otisnwoox~xxcavtel.net" Subject: Re: Tool Posts [taigtools] > Since we are on the subject of tool posts, and fairly > expensive ones that somehow got cheaper practically > overnight. I've been looking at the diamond tool holder > at Bay-com, and wondering if it's worth the money. > Does anybody have one of these? What do you think of it? Martin Hello: Worth the money? That depends on whether you dislike grinding tools or not. I've had one of these for a few years now and I can say that I like using it since sharpening it is really easy. You just fit the bit into the little jig they include with it and apply it to the grinder the way shown in the illustrations that come with it. Then, if you want, you can hone the edge on a stone if you like, but the bit will still cut really well even if you don't hone it. It won't do anything that a properly ground SET of HSS tools WON'T do". [Author amended this sentence to this current wording in a later post.] But it does substitute for several HSS tools (including threading) and unlike most tools that are designed to perform more than one function, this is the only one that will do most of them well. Oh, and the other advantage to this tool is that, if it SHOULD dig into the work, the bit will slide down through the holder and do no further damage. Curtis ------- Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 04:29:39 -0000 From: "crackerfactory03" Subject: Re: Tool Posts "Lynn Livingston" wrote: > Does this mean you spend a lot of time grinding bits for the diamond > toolholder, or that you spend less time grinding bits for the > diamond toolholder? Lynn, it means you spend less time grinding toolbits. You are essentially grinding only one toolbit to do the same work that you would need three or four differently ground tool bits to do. It also means that you do not need to have much skill in shaping bits with a bench grinder, so people who are new to machining can get right to "making chips". That one bit that you grind with the jig they provide can turn work either toward the headstock or the tailstock. To do this with conventional toolbits requires a "right hand" cutting tool and a left hand cutting tool. You also do facing work with the same tool. This "Diamond Toolholder", though it is very versatile and useful, is really only a very old idea recycled. It has been done in the past -- instead of the toolbit being held horizontally, it is held vertically in this special holder, and the angle at which it is held by this toolholder gives it the correct rake and clearances needed to cut steel (or whatever). Somewhere on my hard drive I have a picture of another toolholder that uses the same principles and holds the toolbit vertically, and this toolholder is made to fit a QCTP type toolpost. As far as limitations resulting rom the use of this type of toolholder goes -- I haven't found any. And as a matter of fact, because of its "geometry", it makes it easier to get in close to the tailstock when turning between centers. You have to actually see it to appreciate it. And yes, it is very rigid. And for whatever reason (I can't explain it) it SEEMS TO ME (I want to emphasize the subjective nature of this observation) that the toolbit used in this holder holds its edge longer than a conventional HSS toolbit. You can go ahead and laugh now, but it seems so to me! Curtis ------- Re: Height of the tool [taigtools] Posted by: "Clive Foster" clive_fosterx~xxtalk21.com Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:47 am ((PDT)) Alternatively it's worth considering making up a set of block toolposts so you can have all your tools pre-loaded and pre-set to centre height before mounting on the lathe. Messing about with shims to get on centre is a PIA at the best of times and always distracting mid job when changing tools. I know that some people strap the required shim set to each tool but .... If you have a decent drill along with the requisite taps and counterbores or countersinks, it's pretty easy to make a two slot block type toolpost from three pieces of stock material. A square plate top and bottom with a thicker rectangular lump in between. Two counter-sunk or caphead screws each side will hold it together just fine. The clamp bolt also helps and I'd use structural adhesive too. Top wants to be 3/8 (ish) to give enough meat for the tool clamp bolts, bottom whatever suits your set of tools with minimal shimming. In the UK you can get plastic shimming with the various thickensses colour coded which is much easier than sorting though a mixed stack of thin metal bits. A height setting gauge can be made from a straight edge pivoted on a post such that it lies horizontal when the cutting edge of tool correctly mounted in the toolpost is slid underneath close to the pivot. Could use a plain bar with a mark at the correct height for indication purposes or a ruler and arrange the distances so the graduations correspond to shim thicknesses. Obviously the pivot post and reference need to be on a flat bit of plate with a marked place for the toolpost to go when checking. Easy enough to arrange some lever multiplication. Say 10 times then 1 mm = 4 thou. Alternatively simply measuring against a rule in a rule holder using an eyeglass should be near enuf. QC toolposts are great but work best when you have enough holders to keep all your tools loaded and ready to go. Which can add up a bit pricy. As always, it's a matter of deciding which way is most useful to you and gives the bang for your buck! HTH Clive -------