This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Here find many tips on the hobby of making writing pens on a lathe. Turning writing pen barrels on a metal lathe or wood lathe has become a very popular hobby, or even small business, in the past few years. Many hobbyists make pens for their own satisfaction and as personalized gifts to family and friends. Additional pens may be made for sale in craft fairs to finance the purchase of more materials or new tools and accessories. Similar skills and materials may be employed to make a range of items like mechanical pencils, perfume holders, light knobs, wine corks, etc. The cost of lathe accessories to get into this aspect of the turning hobby is fairly small, and the rewards in personal satisfaction are great. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see many additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2016 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:22:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Penmaking I've uploaded a new file under my folder: perfume-pen.jpg This is my wife's birthday present, which I'll be giving to her next week. The supplies were a buckeye burl pen blank, some ebony, and a perfume applicator kit from Woodcraft. (It's a pretty common kit. You can pick it up from just about any place that has penmaking supplies.) I started by preparing the buckeye blank the normal way, and turning each of the two tubes it down to rough cylinders. I then chucked each one up in a 4-jaw chuck, indicated in on the inside of the brass tube insert, and faced off 1/16" from each end of each tube, leaving the brass insert intact. I then chucked up some ebony in the 4-jaw, drilled using the same drill I'd used on the buckeye, and turned the ebony down to a rough cylinder. I then parted off four disks 0.100" thick. (In hindsight I should've cut them to 1/16" exactly. I can hold tolerances well enough that it wouldn't have been a problem.) I put the curve in each of the buckeye cylinders using the technique outlined in an article in the June/July 2000 issue of Machinist's Workshop titled, "Manual Numerical Control" by R.G. Sparber. I basically set up a spreadsheet with the equation for a circle in it, and made a table of X-Y coordinates I needed to move the tool to. It worked like a charm. It was mind-numbing to move the tool to something like 170 different positions, but it did work. (As a side note, you can do this for ANY shape you want, not just a circle. You could cut a sinusoidal shape, or any other shape, just as easily.) The ebony disks were then glued on, trimmed to length with a pen mill, and shaped to fit the curve in the buckeye. (During the trimming process I really kicked myself for leaving any excess. I really really should've cut them 1/16" thick.) I recently picked up some Micromesh from Woodcraft. Neat stuff! But watch out when you're sanding razor-thin ebony disks. I wound up putting a gouge in every grit I used because the ebony would heat up, melt the latex base on the micromesh, bond the abrasive to the ebony, and cut like a cutoff wheel. Once one of the disks picked up some abrasive, I'd quit sanding, grab a cloth, and buff it off (cutting slices out of the cloth in the process). By the fifth one I was mighty tired of it. I'm just glad it turned out ok. That was my second time putting together a composite of different woods in a single pen, and was the first time I'd ever tried cutting a curve using the MNC technique in Sparber's article. Both of them worked out just fine. Tom ------- Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:58:07 EDT From: xygenbuffx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Penmaking MAKING PEN INNARDS As a restorer of pens, vintage and modern, as well as a maker of custom pens(not the catalog kind, but ones with sterling or gold overlays), the innards are not that easy. Depends what kind of fill system you want - your choices would be: Blow filler Sleeve filler lever button fill with expanding pressure bar plunger converter aerometric filler capiliary filler matchstick filler eyedrop filler twist filler vacumatic filler leverless filler I use my lathe to make vintage pen parts from original black hard rubber. Yes, I have made the "kit pens", but if you want to get into making pens that are like original 1920s - 1930s pens, the sticky wicket is the threading. Those are custom threads, not standard. Know a person that makes classic Parker Duofold Senior pens, and the tap/die set he needed cost him $1000. I won't go into why the threads are so special, but they are. And his tap/die set will make one size, one type pen only. He then uses vintage parts to put them together. Attached - custom Delta Demo LE pen I am doing for a client. The pressure bar inside now 22kt gold plated, lever/box 22kt gold plated, and the cap is at a jewelers having gem stones(orange citrines) added in a channel set ring that will go on the cap, in sterling - all trim on the pen is sterling. And no, you don't want to ask about the final price on this one. Probably the price of a new Taig lathe. Innards - just tell me what innards you want and I will explain how they work. Pen Restoration Services www.penkreations.com ------- Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:20:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Penmaking On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 batwingsx~xxi-plus.net wrote: > At 12:22 AM 10/28/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I started by preparing the buckeye blank the normal way, and turning each > >of the two tubes it down to rough cylinders. > I've read with interest the threads on pens, some of you guys are real > artists. What made me wonder though was buying 'pen kits', presumably > the innards. Haven't we thought of making these ourselves also? Are > there any pieces which cannot be done at home? Actually, that's how I got interested in it in the first place. What convinced me to buy kits instead of hand-crafting was the twist-pen transmission and the threads that are typically used to hold a cap on a pen. The transmissions' a neat little gadget that you twist to make the cartridge stick out the front of the pen. You could certainly make one at home (Jerry's mill and dividing head convinced me just about anything is possible.) But making that would be the most time-intensive part of the pen. I'd rather spend my time on the parts that show. That's not to say I'm not interested in cutting the metal parts that show. Far from it. I'm still working out how to make a matching pen and pencil set with titanium tubes and stainless point, ring, and finial. Just haven't done it yet. So in the mean time I buy kits. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:14:09 -0000 From: "Tim Clarke" Subject: Re: Pens in a 6" Paul, in the last 2 years I have had several attacks of pen making, using a 6" atlas. Works just fine, keep in mind you'll need a ball bearing center for the tailstock, and to run it pretty loose, too tight and the skinny pen mandrel bends and you'll have a bunch of runout. Pick wood that has very fine grain, cocobolo and zeba are very good. Take very light cuts near the end, the wood gets very thin, and the better the grain, the more likely you'll be to blow it up Don't ask me why I know this. I'd start with the american slim pen, and after making a few, move up to the more expensive and difficult pens, pencils and letter openers, etc. You can turn wood with about any tool, I use the toolpost and when I want a taper I use a wood chisel and the toolholder for a rest. Keep your cutters razor sharp. Hope this helps, Tim ------- Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:54:15 -0000 From: jason-lathex~xxsecurepipe.com Subject: Re: Pens in a 6" I've had a Craftsman 6" for several months and I, too, just got it running. My first project on it was a Woodcraft pen! I bought the MT2 mandrel that has the 0.250 hole through the collet. The live centers at Woodcraft seemed to have poor bearings. I found a nice ball-bearing MT1 live center at Sears, in the wood lathe section. The pen I made was one of the 'slim' variety from some flavor of Walnut. There is *not* much wood left when you're done. I used a HSS toolbit (sharp!) in a right-hand holder in the toolpost because that is what I happened to have. BTW, I drilled the holes in the wood blanks with the size drill bit that the brass tube OD measured and the tubes were a tight press fit. Too tight, really. I didn't use any epoxy or glue with the tubes. Next time I'll drill a bigger hole! It turned out very nice! I'll be making more of them over the next month to give as gifts. I'm wondering if a pen made from all brass (no wood) would (pun intended) be attractive. Has anyone seen or done this? ------- Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:03:34 -0600 From: Jim Irwin Subject: Re: Pens in a 6" brewerpaulx~xxaol.com wrote: > Hi-- finally got my 6" Atlas up and running. I'm a total newbie to > this, and was considering trying a Woodcraft pen as a first project. > Anyone have any experience with these? They sell a special mandrel > with either 1 or 2 MT, and you need to buy some bushings, drills, > etc. Looks like it oughta be pretty simple-- easy way to make gifts > too. Paul Troy NY A metal lathe can be used for wood occasionally, but is designed for metal. You need far higher spindle speeds for pens of wood than you'll ever get out of an Atlas lathe. You'll wear it out and be disappointed in the results. Mini wood lathes are pretty cheap and made to last a long, long time. Best regards, Jim Irwin ------- Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:11:46 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Pens in a 6" I'll disagree with the speed requirements. Once you have worked with a foot powered lathe you will understand that the speed requirements are well overstated by some. Wood can be worked at real high speeds but you need good solid equipment in order to do the high speeds. A good burnish of the wood is better done at lower speeds anyway as high speeds will tend to burn the wood. Bob May My new web space address is http://webu.wigloo.com/bobmay/ or http://nav.to/bobmay ------- Note: on the question of suitable cutters for woodturning with a metal lathe, most respondents said HS steel was more user friendly than carbide (easy to keep very sharp.) ------- Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:08:57 EST From: tadici283x~xxcs.com Subject: Re: Bits (cutters) for woodturning? 11/21/2000, brewerpaulx~xxaol.com writes: << Hi-- I plan to start making some wooden pens in my 6". What type of cutters do you all recommend for woodturning ( hardwoods)? Any other advise/suggestions welcomed. Paul Troy NY >> You may want to use rounded edge cutters, HSS works great, do not use pointed tools since they have a tendency to "thread" the wood blank and the resulting groves cannot be removed, since the wood is thin and does not have enough "meat" in it to polish out. Chris of Bradenton FL ------- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 07:00:12 -0500 From: "Nevins, Dave" Subject: RE: Slipping Morse tapers Original Message----- >Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 6:57 AM >To: atlas_craftsmanx~xxegroups.com >Hi-- just started in on machining: couple of Woodcraft pen kits. I'm >doing my boring with a 7.. drill in a tailstock chuck, and the double >ended Morse taper on the chuck slips at both ends. What am I doing >wrong? Feeding the drill too fast? Thanks. Paul I have found it easier to drill the pens in a drill press, using a v-block and clamp. This method has worked well for me as I had many numerous pens this way. Dave ------- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:06:00 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Slipping Morse tapers brewerpaulx~xxaol.com wrote: > Hi-- just started in on machining: couple of Woodcraft pen kits. I'm > doing my boring with a 7.. drill in a tailstock chuck, and the double > ended Morse taper on the chuck slips at both ends. What am I doing > wrong? Feeding the drill too fast? Thanks. Paul A clean, unmarred Morse taper will never slip. If it IS slipping, it is not clean, or it is marred. Even one tiny little ding on the wide end of the taper (where it is really easy to ding the taper while in a drawer full of accessories) will prevent the taper from seating fully, and it will slip. If your tailstock ram doesn't lock the tang on the taper, you can try to wring the tapers together, and see how much grip there is. When seating the tapers, you should be able to just wring them together a little and they will lock tightly, with no more than 10 Lbs of axial force. You can use DyKem or spotting dye to find the areas where contact is made (and where it isn't being made). Lacking these, you can use magic marker on the male taper, wring it in the ram and then inspect where the marks are rubbed off as a guide to locating the dings. Older lathes often have severe galling on the inside of the tailstock ram, due to spinning Jacobs chucks or morse taper drill bits. This is a lot harder to remedy than a little ding or two on the outside of a male taper. A Morse taper reamer is the best thing. Jon ------- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:39:28 -0600 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: Slipping Morse tapers J Tiers wrote: > I loctited mine. Umm, that makes it pretty hard to change tools! > >It must be that my "clean, unmarred" morse taper is machined bad in my > >small drill press. It slips and I pulled it apart three times to > >clean and check it. This certainly happens! You can mark the male taper with dye or magic marker and then wring it in the socket a bit, then examine the pattern where the dye is rubbed off. You will discover how well it fits with this method. If the fit is tight only at the big or small end then the taper is wrong - a common problem. For these tapers to work right, they have to be cut extremely accurately, and some tools just aren't! Jon ------- Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:31:19 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: horrible chatter... On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Papasan wrote: > A little off the subject but. . . .can anyone tell me where to go to > see what parts are recommended from Taig for pen turning? I also want > to use it as a horizontal drill to drill the pen blanks. I've seen > the list of parts but don't know exactly what I would need to get started. I don't know what I'd get in the way of specialized hardware from Taig. I took the stock Taig lathe with the 1/4 HP motor and pulley set (haven't gone for a VS motor yet), and adapted it to pen making. For a mandrel and bushings, I got one from Penn State Supply. There's also a local Woodcraft store here in town, and I get parts from them as well. As far as cutting the pens themselves, here's basically what I do: I cut the blanks to length with a hacksaw. I then chuck them up in the 4-jaw and put the appropriate drill in the tailstock. You have to be a little creative since the tailstock doesn't have a whole lot of travel, but it can be used to drill through just about any length blank. (Some day I'll break down and make a 4" travel tailstock, but for now this works.) After assembling the tubes and milling them to length, I put them on the mandrel and mount the mandrel on the headstock, with a live center on the tailstock. For turning them, I use metalworking tools (which probably makes any wood turners here cringe in horror and dismay, but...) This lets me get really precise cuts, at the expense of a pretty torn up surface. Once the tubes are the right size and shape, I remove the carriage and cover the ways with paper. At that point it's time to sand and finish. I did see one tool for the Taig lathe I did want to get, though. FWIW, one of the pen parts suppliers sells Taig lathes as "Pen-Making Mini-Lathes" (or something like that). Right below their ad for the Taig lathe, they've got a neat contraption used for duplicating template shapes on a Taig lathe. It amounts to a replacement carriage with a spring-loaded cross-slide. Two clamps bolt onto the ways, which hold a template. The spring-loaded cross-slide butts up against the template, and it will follow it as you run the carriage up and down the bed. The tool is held in what looks like a normal Taig back toolpost. The duplicating attachment runs for about $195 or so. Right now I'm trying to figure out if I want to actually buy this thing, or use it as an excuse to get some dovetail cutters, and get busy with a CAD program. ;) The reason *WHY* I would like this is because I typically do some MNC for any non-straight-walled pen I make. I come up with the curve I want to do, plot coordinate pairs for every change of 5 thou in barrel diameter, and use that table to cut the shape by hand. It's a major pain in the hiney if you're cutting a shape with more than a couple hundred points, but I wind up with the right shape every time. I don't have a CNC lathe, but this would be the next best thing. I can use the CNC mill to cut my template out of steel or aluminum, then use it to crank out any number of identical barrels. But no, I haven't tried ANY of this yet. Tom ------- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:54:19 -0800 From: "Andrew Werby" Subject: Re: Digest Number 234 Tom Benedict >Subject: Re: horrible chatter... For turning them, I use metalworking tools (which probably makes any wood turners here cringe in horror and dismay, but...) This lets me get really precise cuts, at the expense of a pretty torn up surface.<< Thanks for the interesting post on pen turning. Having turned some wood on my metal lathe, I can offer a "tip": Instead of grinding your toolbit to the wickedly sharp point required for metal-working, try a radius tip instead. You still want the rake and clearance angles; just radius the forward-facing edge. This sort of point will clean up the surface as it cuts at the same rate, so instead of leaving "screw-threads" in your wood it will leave the surface much smoother, with no sacrifice of precision. Andrew Werby www.computersculpture.com ------- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:11:06 -0800 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Digest Number 234 > Every material has a rake angle it likes for clean cutting. Machinery's > Handbook has a table of rake angles for various materials, and that's what > I've used as a guide for grinding tool bits. > Seems like the same should be true of wood. If you look at the various > hand tools for lathe turning, and the way they're actually brought to bear > against the work piece, it seems like most woods like a very very steep > rake angle, one that would tend to drag a tool into the part if it weren't > for an almost non-existant relief angle. > So my question is this: Do you think it would be possible to grind > toolbits so that to the wood they actually looked like a wood turner's > gouge or skew? > I've been thinking on this, but I can't figure out how to grind one in > such a way that it could ever be sharpened without totally destroying the > figure of the tool. > I do realize I could make some sort of articulated toolbit holder that > would essentially let me hold a wood turner's skew at the correct angle, > but this seems completely anti-KISS, and prone to result in tools digging > in and getting hurled across the shop. My friend who uses a Sherline for pen turning has the tool ground flat on the top, with extreme rake on the front. He has it mounted way above center in the toolholder so that the cutting edge is tangent to the top of the pen blank. He also mounts a small gouge in the toolholder and uses that. ------- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:57:16 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Berriman Subject: Re: horrible chatter... Howdy all, I've been lurking for quite a while, but felt I could add something to this one... > > A little off the subject but. . . .can anyone tell me where to go to > > see what parts are recommended from Taig for pen turning? I also want > > to use it as a horizontal drill to drill the pen blanks. I've seen > > the list of parts but don't know exactly what I would need to get started. I agree totally with what Tom said - that's exactly how I do it, but with one (or two) exceptions. Firstly, if you use the round nose metal turning bit, the wood comes out a *lot* smoother than any of the others, and makes sanding and finishing a breeze (especially on really hard woods). If you want to do it the hard way (so as not to give the metal working guys fits) the woorkworking toolrests (especially the long one) from lee valley are brilliant. I've turned everything from pens to stumpy cabinet legs (60mm diameter x 230mm long) using these tool rests - they are great. Not sure of the full link, but if you go to www.leevalley.com you should be able to search for taig and find them. Mine's a stock taig with a 1/4HP washing machine motor, and I only use the 3 jaw self centring chuck to drill my holes (remember pens only need about 2mm worth of walls around the blank, and so the hole does not have to be dead straight (most of the time). I can't help with mandrels and bushings - I'm fairly sure our suppliers over here in Oz are different to yours :) ------- Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 14:37:00 EST From: wa9gobx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Wood turning tools ? what I use Hi, I have made about 50 woodcraft pens perfume atomizers ,magnifing glass, etc this year for christmas, I did not know what to use ether, so I bought a wood chisel looking tool from there that Is a small U shaped deal not much bigger that this actual U im typing I guess it to be about no more than 1/2 wide actually smaller I can tell you I just lock it down in my atlas 10' tool post holder and use the carridge and feeds like I do when I work metal, I dont have the wood lathe bar, I need to make one asap, when I free hand for certain effects I just lock in a bar on the lantern post sideways and use it as the support, the chisel or toolset I got was the cheapest woodcrafters had and it has redish /bronish long handles and comes three to a set shape, angle,& point, I use the pointy one to put style lines in the stuff, and the angel one to clean up edges, but only the U fits perfectly in the lantern tool post and locks down with the regular set screw, this is good as some -most- of the wood thickness get very thin, like the perfume atomizer the wood get damned thin , some of my gifts have cracked do to humidity changes, and a new style pen I have yet to try, the has a very critical clearance deal so free hand wont cut it anyway, good luck dan busta, at home recovering from a kidney transplant on nov. 22! ------- Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 02:25:06 -0800 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: How I adapted the Lee Valley Wood Working Tool R est for use on a Sherline Hi everyone: If you're interested in wood working using your lathe, I've posted a bunch of pictures on pen making at: http://www.davehylands.com/Wood-Working/ including a section on how I modified the Lee Valley Tool Rest (which is designed for the Taig) to work on the Sherline. It also includes one way of making dovetails without a dovetail cutter. http://www.davehylands.com/Wood-Working/Tool-Rest/ Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com/ ------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:32:10 -0500 From: Bob Lombardi Subject: Re: pen on sherline lathe Speaking of this, I've made a few wooden pens on my Sherline. They are nice, Cross-style pens, although the gold plating tends to rub off after a few months. I'd like to use my Sherline to make a stainless steel pen, and have no idea where to start. Should I get a stainless steel rod and do everything the same way I do a wood pen? Or drill it to the final size so it doesn't use the brass bushings? Would a stainless tube be a better starting point? Any pointers? Thanks, Bob ------- Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:43:21 -0000 From: "yupak12" Subject: Re: pen on sherline lathe Bob: Here's a web page on doing it in aluminum. Might be good for starters. http://www.pennastudio.com/hobby/index.htm Bill ------- Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:14:23 -0000 From: "crankdisk" Subject: Re: pen on sherline lathe Have a look at www.penmakingsupplies.com, they have a nice site. I have made many pens on my Shopsmith, but I am brand new to the Sherline (and this group). You should buy drill chuck pen mandrels - I have several different sizes and they all fit in the Sherline with the drill chuck mounted in the headstock. The mandrels I have are all very hard, so I use the ball-bearing tail stock centre. You must use RAZOR SHARP tool bits or the wood will tear up. You also turn wood at very high speed compared to metal. There are several different types of plastic that turn well and make beautiful pens as well. Bill Halifax NS ------- Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:14:26 -0000 From: "crankdisk" Subject: Re: pen on sherline lathe --- In sherlinex~xxy..., goodolddanx~xxa... wrote: > Thanks for the info, Bill could you share with the list your > method of getting razor sharp tool bits? Warning, I am a complete novice at the Sherline, and my experience comes from sharpening woodworking tools. That being said, my woodworking tools perform very well and I am happy so far with how the metal working tools work on wood and plastic when I sharpen them this way: I use a hard felt buffing wheel generously and frequently primed with hard metal buffing compound. It comes as a big green stick, like an overweight crayon. The one stick I bought ten years ago isn't even half used up. After grinding your right hand tool in the normal way, you hold the tool upside down against the buffing wheel. You only need to buff the side that contacts the wood, that is the left side of a right-hand tool. When finished (a few seconds) the honed tool will be mirror-bright. I have not tried a round nose tool, as someone else wrote, but I will now - it would save a lot of time going back to the end of the work after a cut. PS, buffing them this way for metal cutting seems to be a waste of time, as the bits straight off the grinder seem to work just as well, based on my limited experience. Depending on the type of wood, you will need to experiment on what angle you present the tool to the wood. You should aim to shear wood rather than scrape it off. I will try and take a few pictures over the next week or two and post them here. Bill in Halifax NS ------- Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:47:52 -0600 From: "louis salvadore" Subject: Re: Re: pen on sherline lathe about sharpening to a razor edge. i use ##400 & then go down to #600 wet or dry sanding paper, u can use water or oil for a lubricant, to float particles up, as u prefer. i find the edge stays more true than a buffing wheel that can overlap the edge and round it. if u soak the paper it can b formed to specific profiles, for flat honing i use a piece of plate glass. hey pen makers there is a great source at www.psischools.com penn state industries, i have the school catalogue but this can b a start for supplies and ideas. shop teach louie ------- Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:44:44 -0800 From: Eric Hayes Subject: Re: Re: pen on sherline lathe Okay, being a woodworker first, and a metal worker novice, I need to chime in... Louie, what you bring up sounds like apples and oranges... I agree (and use) 400 & 600 wet/dry as a "cheap" mid level sharpening step sometimes. Then comes fine and extra fine, then....... If you want Really Sharp, the green rouge described is the way to go, we area taking #4000 or #8000 for "scary sharp". The green rouge on a buffing wheel will get you there, if you can't with a leather strop. On straight edges (plane irons, straight chisels, etc) I use a flat leather stop, but.... for curved gouges, a touch on the buffing wheel with a bit of green rouge is the ONLY thing go get you to "scary sharp" . What you were describing is the bur rolling over, which is why, after you give a couple "zips" across with the buffing wheel you turn the gouge over and give it 1/10th that on the back side to get rid of the bur. That is what carvers do, and for very detailed lathe work also. You can then keep your edge honed on the buffing wheel for quite a while before having to go back to the rough #400/#600 level. my 2 cents. -eric ps. very nice to be able to know what the hell is going on for a moment....... this metal work is killing my brain!!! :) ------- Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 01:37:58 -0000 From: "harley09282000" Subject: Disabled newbie needs advice on pen making and other projects... Hi Members, I have recently purchased a complete machining and lathe from HUT. It is a 4400A Sherline with many attachments. I have never done this type work before (pen making), but after 3 years in the hospital being put togeather, and learning to walk, I needed something to stop me from going stir crazy. I have ordered all the wood wroking material and tools, and I always wanted to be a machinist. I can't join the work force, but I can learn to do this. I just need some guidence and help. If anyone has a moment to help out with advice on anything, please feel free to email me at sbreaux0x~xxbellsouth.net on any advice you have to offer. I am a very willing learner, and I admit now I am a very extreme novice in this area. Any advice or comments would be appreciated. Thanks....Steve ------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 23:54:59 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Disabled newbie needs advice on pen making and other projects... Hi, Steve: First off, you might just find that your purchase puts you back into the workforce faster than you might imagine. There are several stories of folks in your situation that suddenly found themselves in business. While I'm not a penmaker, I've made a few pens using my ShopSmith. I believe that the steps might be the same using a Sherline. Here's what I did when making a few on my ShopSmith. It's a start, but I'd encourage you to try some things out and then ask question's here. For starters, you should either make or buy penmaking blanks and also penmaking kits. The blanks should be about 1/2 inch square and as long as the brass tubes in the penmaking kit. You'll need two pieces for each pen. You'd cut these from the pen blanks that you bought or made. Next, you'll drill each pen down the center (axially) with a drill that is ever so slightly larger than the brass tube. Then, you'll put either some super glue or epoxie on the brass tube, shove the brass tube into the drilled blank, and let harden. When the blanks are hardened, you'll mount them on a mandrel, and then mount the mandrel on the lathe. This means that you'll have to buy or make a pen turning mandrel for your lathe, if HUT didn't include one with your purchase. The mandrel kit also contains brass washers that will mount on the mandrel with the blanks, much like a shish-kabob on a skewer. These washers are used to help you keep the depth of cut correct. Once the blanks are mounted, you'll start turning them into cylinders. You probably can use a tool mounted on the cross slide to scrape them into cylinders, but then you'll probably want to use a woodworking T-rest and use wood turning chisels to finish turning them. Most likely, you'll use a woodworking skew that's maybe 1/2 inch across. Jerry ------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 23:17:48 -0700 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Disabled newbie needs advice on pen making and other projects... Hi Steve, I've documented some pens that I made and the process that I used. You can see pictures starting here: http://www.DaveHylands.com/Wood-Working/ I find that working with wood to be quite a bit messier than working with metal (which is why you see all of the cardboard "guards" in the pictures, in an attempt to contain all of the wood chips. If you're going to be working with some of the more exotic woods, like Padauk or Cocobolo, then you'll definitely want an apron or wear clothes that you don't mind destroying. Some of the woods WILL stain (Padauk and Red Heart are notorious for this). Also, I'd recommend wearing a breathing mask of some type. Some of the exotic woods contain substances that we've never been exposed to before and can cause allergic reactions. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 11:11:28 -0000 From: "yupak12" Subject: Re: Disabled newbie needs advice on pen making and other projects... Hi Steve, Welcome!!! I'd like to add to the good advice others have already given to you. I have a Sherline lathe, and it works very well for pen making. So, you are off to a good start with your choice of lathe. William Lee suggested using indexable carbide tools. You can cut many blanks with one of the 3 sides of an insert, and rotate it for two more. Then you have 4 more inserts from the other tools. No sharpening required, just get new inserts or tools. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39931 I recently added a Frog to my Sherline. It "motorizes" the cross slide, so you don't need to manually move the cross slide with the hand wheel. http://www.emachineshop.com/frog/lathes/sherline.htm Bill ------- Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 12:35:33 -0000 From: "tonyryue" Subject: Re: Disabled newbie needs advice on pen making and other projects... Hi Steve, I actually have a Taig lathe, yet find this group to be of great value and have learned much from the questions and answers. I aquired my lathe after a three year recovery from a car accident. I lost my vocation and have also spent these years getting to the point where I am returning to school. Lots of great technology and help will get me through! More to the point of your post, I have made pens on a wood lathe before my accident, and now on my Taig lathe. Lee Valley Tools sells something called a pen mill for about Can$25. This tool is used to true up the end of the composite brass tube/wooden blank assembly before turning. I consider it mandatory, as the mandrel that we use to turn the blanks round registers against the end of these brass/wood assemblies. It also cleans any stray glue out of the brass tube. This mill makes life so much easier! Highly recommended. Good luck with your continued recovery. Being able to make beautiful objects is a great step in the process of recovering our capabilities. Remember, we may have our disabilities yet we are not disabled! Tony ------- Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 07:59:09 -0700 From: "David" Subject: Re: Disabled newbie needs advice on pen making and other projects... Steve: I've made many pens on my Sherline. I'm sure you'll get all sorts of answers from the people in this group. I have only two inputs from my experience. a. If you're making a straight-sided pen, use only the lathe tooling. If you've never used wood-turning tools before, you'll be surprised and discouraged about how many parts you ruin-remember, you'll be turning the wood down to literally paper thin, and only the lathe tooling mounted on the cross-slide can give you the kind of control you want. b. If you're making a "shaped" pen [the "Eurostyle" in HUT's catalog], consider using rasps, files, sandpapers, etc. for shaping instead of traditional wood-turning tools. c. If you're planning on selling these pens, you may want to find suppliers other than HUT for your kits. I know that Tom Hutchinson [HUT's founder] recently sold the business, so I don't know the new owners' policies on warranty. But I had a bad experience with customers returning pens because the plating turned spotty. HUT at that time wouldn't back me up. I've had the best luck with Penn Industries for the straight-sided pens, although HUT's design for the "Eurostyle" is still the best. You can probably avoid any possible plating problems by using only the Titanium-Nitride plated kits. d. Contact me OTB at wood1481x~xxsbcglobal.net if you have any direct questions. Most important advice: have fun! Dave Wood ------- Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 11:08:51 -0400 From: "John Guenther" Subject: RE: Disabled newbie needs advice on pen making and other projects... I have made many pens also, and I must agree that Penn Industries has good kits and pen making tools and accessories. I have not purchased from HUT for a couple of years or more, I buy a lot of stuff from Woodcraft Supply, Penn Industries and a couple of other wood turning suppliers who's names escape me at this moment. I only have one suggestion for you, and that is when it comes to gluing the tubes into the wood blanks I have had the best success with Gorilla Glue which is a water cured polyurethane glue that foams as it cures. Since I started using it for my pen work about 5 years ago I have not had any problems with shattered blanks or other nasty things that can happen when you are turning pens using wood turning tools. Good luck, have fun and welcome to the group and the hobby. John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sherline List Owner Sterling, Virginia ------- Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 23:03:33 -0400 From: Jim Ash Subject: Different slant / was Disabled newbie needs advice .... Steve - Welcome to the party. A different slant on your responses: Personally, what you need to do first is to pick a project. A specific project. If making pens is where you want to go, that's a great start, but you're only partially there. You'll find out soon enough for yourself what tools and materials you'll need (I already own too many tools that somebody else said I'd need, but I never use), but what you need right now is a tangeable, workable goal. Nothing will improve your focus like that goal. So pick a specific pen you want to make and get moving. Find out who the suppliers are, and get the materials you need specific to that design (It doesn't hurt to order extra to cover your mistakes or make another one later). Later on, when you get a feel for how long a given project might take, you can 'order ahead' (which it sounds like you might have done anyhow), and have the materials on-hand in time for your next project. I've got a toy part chucked up right now, two toys waiting repair, the brass for a replacement hydraulic fitting for my snow plow which needs to work before winter, and the materials to make my next two miniature engines. Each one a specific, attainable goal. I'm not a pen guy, so I'm ignorant of the designs and suppliers, but if you're having problems picking a design, ask the list. Get some catalogs and books. If you have a design and get stuck progressing, ask the list. If your lathe acts up and you're getting frustrated, ask the list. If you found some cool new material and you don't know how to cut it, ask the list. If you mess up a part and you think it might be salvagable, ask the list. When you have completed your first pen, take a photo and show the list; we want to hear your successes as well as your frustrations. If you have to wait for things to show up in the mail, then play with the lathe to find out it's capabilities. Get some hardwood dowel from your local hardware store and turn it down. While you're in there, look around for anything else cheap that you can chuck up and cut, like old bolts, tubing, plumbing supplies, electrical supplies, whatever. A hardware store is a gold mine if you can look past the intended design for an item and look at its potential as raw material for your shop. If you're really good, why restrict yourself to just the hardware store? Personally, I'd need about 100 hours in my day to try all the stuff that interests me, so I have to conscienciously put some off, and pen making is on that list. But the cool thing with these machine tools is you can use them for many different end purposes. I've made (and repaired) parts, tools, toys, and I don't know what all else with mine. I expect you'll find the same over time. And better yet, have a blast along the way. So what design have you picked? Jim Ash ------- Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:53:10 -0500 From: "Daniel Kaschner" Subject: RE: Disabled newbie needs advice on pen making and other projects... Hi and glad to have you as a member! My sons and I make pens, both wood and metal. Sounds like you are looking to turn wooden pens, and if you are interested brass and aluminum pens are beautiful also. We have a Sherline 4400 and a Jet minilathe. I like to turn straight line pens on the Sherline and do the sanding and finishing on the Jet, to save the wear and tear of the sanding grit on the Sherline, besides with two lathes my sons and I can get a kind of production line going. :-) This is just our method, two lathes are definitely not required. You will be extremely happy with your Sherline. My first suggestion is to go to the Penturners group on Yahoo and join up, another great bunch of people there! You can find more to read on and will get more help on penturning from that group than I could hope to type this evening. Another resource you may want to check out is Bill Baumbeck at www.arizonasilhouette.com . Bill is a top notch guy, great penturner, and he sells a video for $19.95 on pen turning that cannot be beat. I have watched it three times and I learn something new from it each time. It leads you through every step of penturning while showing you some real tricks of the trade. Oh yea, once you have a few pens under your belt, you might want to check out the beautiful stabilized pen blanks that Bill sells, never turned anything as pretty as the eye candy Bill sells. And to top it off, you will not find better service anywhere, bar none, than Bill. BTW, I am not affiliated in any way with Bill except as a very satisfied customer and someone who loves to chat with him. Well, sorry to ramble. please contact me by private email if I can help in any way. The most help I can offer right now is to recommend you 1) get to the Penturners group, and 2) check out Bill's sight. Good luck and talk to you soon. Dan Kaschner ------- Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:00:20 -0700 From: "David" Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone for such a nice welcome.....!!! Projects Steve: Welcome again. While you're waiting, you might also give some consideration to how you're going to remove the dust you're going to create; and, as some others have pointed out, some of this dust (Cocobolo, Wenge, some of the Rosewoods) can be very obnoxious. In my own case, I got a cheapest dust control system from Penn State, mounted it in the corner of the garage next to my (indoor) shop, ported the collection ducting and wiring through the wall, and made a simple bracket that mounts a flat ducting flange onto the back edge of the cross-slide. Works like a champ, removing both the majority of the dust and the fumes. For your person, make sure that you wear protective clothing, protective eyewear [always], and, with some woods, a painter's mask or surgical mask. Dave Wood PS: BTW, the word "indoor" to describe my shop shouldn't imply anything grandiose: it's 4 x 9 feet with two doors opening into it in the middle. But I have a built-in, chest-high surface across the short side (I just have to step back when one of the doors needs opening) and another along the long side, tool boxes at the end wall. The lathe goes on the short surface, and the mill goes on the long surface with room left for construction, grinding, etc. It was originally designed and used for an old-fashioned darkroom, so there's plenty of outlets, an air-conditioning inlet, an exhaust for fumes, stereo for long sessions, etc. Whatever you wind up with for a workplace, plan it carefully and make sure that it comfortable, or else you'll find reasons not to go in there. ------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:17:04 -0000 From: "William Lee" Subject: Hello Everyone ...... Hello to the group. My name is William Lee and I live in Corpus Christi, Texas. I have my Sherline lathe set up for making pens. If you would like to see some photos of it they are at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~willeecue Along with some photos of the rest of my humble shop and some of the pens I make. I added a power feed to the Sherline to make cutting pen barrels down to .5" a bit less tiring. It is varaible speed and unidirectional and as the photo shows, adapting it could not have been easier as the knob on the Sherline is built like a small pully with a quick release to boot! That little lathe is a lot more precise than I thought it would be and over time I have bought other equipment but the Sherline does its job so well I just can't ever see replacing it. William Lee WilleeCue Corpus Christi, Texas ------- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 16:39:47 -0000 From: "yupak12" Subject: Re: tools needed to turn wooden pens? In sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com, "silverwaterh" wrote: > I am interested in making wooden pens and pencils on the Sherline > lathe and mill. The best Internet site that I found is > http://www.hutproducts.com/started.html > An excerpt from the site, ".If you have a Sherline lathe, you will > not need turning tool, since it has it own permanent cutting tool." > What does this mean? Howard, Hut sells a carbide tipped cutting tool. Their ad says that it will cut 150 to 200 pens before it needs to be resharped. Maybe this is what they mean by permanent. I use the indexable carbide tool sold by Harbor Freight, and the inserts can be rotated, and replaced when dull. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39931 This is good for straight cuts, but if you want to make shaped pens a tool rest, make your own or look at the Sherline, and a gouge are needed. You'll need a drill press to drill blanks, and some type of jig to hold the blank. You'll need a mandrel (check BereaWoods) to hold the blanks while turning on the lathe. A barrel trimmer is a good way to square the end, although you can also do it on the lathe as a facing operation. I use my drill press, as a pen press, to install the pen parts. Start with 7mm pen kits, getting a bushing set that goes on the mandrel with the blanks. Bill ------- Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:25:41 -0400 From: "JERRY G" Subject: Re: I took your advice and purchased Gorrilla glue..expensive.. ALL, If you go to www.thistothat.com Excellent site on what to use to glue things together.Very simple interface. Regards, Jerry G Original Message ----- From: David To: sherlinex~xxyahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [sherline] I took your advice and purchased Gorrilla glue.. expensive.. Since I'm the guy who touted this stuff, I should have told you how expensive it is and what a mess it is to work with. It is expensive. And it is a mess because it works by expanding as it sets up, which is its real advantage. If you glue the tube in a hole in a pen blank, for instance, the glue actually forces itself into the pores of the wood. It also oozes out the end of the blank, over into the inside of the tube, all over whatever you had it sitting on while it set up (and it better have been wax paper), and so on. So it's a mess to clean up after. But it is the best thing I've found to glue a number of dissimilar items: brass to wood, leather to glass, copper to rubber, etc. With anything other than something that nestles within something else (like the tube in the blank), you'll need clamps of some sort because the expansion action will actually force the pieces apart. As to its expense, the "Gorilla" glue is a brand name (I believe it was the first) for a kind of polyurethane formulation. Elmer's also makes one called "Probond," which is about half as expensive as "Gorilla," and is identical in results. Hope this helps, Dave Wood ------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:41:27 -0000 From: "Steve Breaux" Subject: Ok Guys, first metal turning for me, and turned out great... Well today forced me to turn a metal ring down. I had made a very beautiful blonde dymonwood (sp) blank down to where I wanted, a first for me, threw the directions away also. I put a cross mechanism in the pen, but the turning barrel was .003 to large. So i just chucked it up nicly in a self centering 3 chuck jaw and zeroed my wheels, and off the stainless came. To me it was the neatest item to date because I changed everything but the color. I wish I had more of the blanks. You see, this is the first time I made something with my mind rather than some directions on paper. It also came out the best work of mine to date. After I made the turning mechanism to fit, and at the correct level, this pen turns silk smooth and is really beautiful. I would post a picture, but my lawyer buddy borrowed my digital camera for some photo work. I like my camera. I guess I am on my way. I finally took a chance and did something my way, and it didn't turn out bad, and I did it without the help of my wife. Hey pat on the back for me. Been three years since I have done anything alone. I know it is nothing compared to what you all can do but this is a very special time for me. Doing something without help from another feels good. Now in another 50 years I'll be as good as you guys/gals. Steve ------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:04:58 -0700 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Ok Guys, first metal turning for me, and turned out great... Hi, Steve: Glad to hear that you're enjoying working with your Sherline. It really is fun to start with some raw material and turn it into something that really looks good, and performs as well. Do I understand that you actually made the mechanism yourself? If so, how did you do it? Could you post some pictures and maybe a few drawings? Thanks, Jerry ------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:28:56 -0000 From: "Steve Breaux" Subject: Jerry, Carol, turning mechanism.... Jerry, Carol: What I did was remove the brass portion which is smaller and holds the pen stem. The stainless top portion was to large so after separating the two parts, the old stainless tube was not good enough to use anymore, so I used a piece of stainless pressure gauge tubing (1/4) and turned the outside .003, and then the inside ring area that fits the brass portion the same so I could reuse the turning material housed in both ends. They went together perfectly and turned so ever smooth. Better than the kit mechanism. I did not make any gears or wheels, as that is not how the mechanism is put togeather. You do have to cut the stainless off the brass, at least I did. I use a dremel tool with a cut wheel to seperate the tube. Two slices about 1/4 inch long on both sides at the bottom will allow the entire brass mechanism to come out in one piece. I measured the tube and cut and squared the faces, and chucked it up and turned it one side for the outside diameter, and then reversed the piece after grinding down a new cutting tool to fit inside the small hole so it would cut. It took a while to do all this, but was a very good learning experience for me. Now if I can just figure out how to make that darn mandrel without getting hurt, I will be happy. I hope this information helps. I did change the Parker mechanism to the Cross on on the top portion. Those seem to work better and easier to replace empty ink tubes. Steve ------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:26:30 -0000 From: "Tom Nance" Subject: Edge Finder Pics [sherline group at Yahoo] Yesterday, I was playing around with the idea of using some pen making techniques to make an edge finder. I've posted pics of the result in an album called "Edge Finder." It is made from brass and Cocoabolo. In the exploded view, the wood parts haven't been turned to size yet. That's why they are larger than what you'd expect. It turned out kinda cool, and works just as well as my Starrett. Tom Nance Corpus Christi, TX ------- Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 05:40:59 -0700 (PDT) From: harry J Subject: Pen Turning on Taig I do not have a Taig lathe but we are thinking of getting one as a birthday gift for my father-in-law. I thought that it may be helpful to get comments before we made the purchase. Thanks Harry J. ------- Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:45:36 -0500 From: "Michael F. Looney" Subject: Re: Pen Turning on Taig Harry: You can turn pens on any type of lathe metal or wood, but what make turn pens better is having the working feed to move it one way, which you don't get on a taig unless you build one. I am talking about one that is control by a gear and the motor of the lathe not the hand control that is on the lathe. I make pens for a living and all I use is a metal lathe, but I am using one from Homier because of the movement, and more control. Mike Looney PS if you are thinking about making pens there is a site in Yahoo just for that go there and join and see what can be done, and see how they are doing it. I think it is called penturner. ------- Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:07:40 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Pen Turning on Taig I've used mine for pen turning. I like it. FWIW, Bonnie Klein also sells a small lathe for pen and other spindle turning. Turns out it's a modified Taig. Does your father-in-law already do wood turning? If not, you may also need to pick up some wood turning tools. Tom ------- Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 00:28:49 -0000 From: "toolmangler" Subject: Re: Pen Turning on Taig I've found that the Taig makes a fun, little lathe for smaller woodworking projects. I've made a couple dozen pens with it, and they are good at getting an "OOOHHH" out of people! After playing with traditional woodworking turning tools, I tried using the metalworking toolholder, and have found that to be an easier way of making pens. The only "trick" is to grind a toolbit somewhat differently, with a bit more of an edge rather than a point ... but the most important thing is to keep it sharp! A powered travel feature might be nice for someone who makes pens for a living, but hand power works just fine for the weekend tinkerer. I've used the Taig with standard full-sized turning tools for a couple of other projects, such as wooden oil lamps. Although the standard woodturning rest is OK, there is a double-length rest available that would probably make turning easier. I suppose that a person who is handy with making stuff (I'm not, alas) could cobble an equivalent rest up from bits and pieces. But this is the sort of thing you could easily purchase later ... Christmas is coming, after all. Oh, and keep in mind that you'll need some sort of dust-collection system when working with wood. Slicing off chips isn't a health problem, but when you start sanding the workpiece, a LOT of fine dust is generated. At the VERY least, some sort of dustmask must be used. The Taig is great fun to use! If you get a setup that can be used for both woodworking and metalworking, your father-in-law may get tempted to try a simple steam engine! ------- Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:45:09 -0000 From: "Ed Chesnut" Subject: Re: Pen Turning on Taig I'm quite happy with my Taig whether turning steel, brass, aluminum or wood. I've been making pens for about a year on it. I like to use standard wood turning tools for rough turning - bringing the blank down to round and somewhat over size - then I use the metal cutting tool post and a specially ground tool to turn to a few thousandths over size - then end up with sanding to size. As mentioned, prepare for healthy precautions regarding sanding dust. I'd say, "Go for it!" Ed ------- Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:44:37 -0000 From: "Ed Chesnut" Subject: Re: Pen Turning on Taig Whoooooboy. Since he is a machinist, he MAY be really frustrated by the lack of power drive to the carriage. OR he may be intrigued by the idea of adding that feature himself. From what I read, the Taig is certainly a higher accuracy machine than the low cost small imported lathes which already have power feed to the carriage - and that COULD be more important to him than having the power feed. There are lots of "mays, ors and coulds" in this deal in terms of the features/quality - and who knows EXACTLY how he'll "come down" on each of those items. But here's another thought. I run a small business out of my home and on occasion take a semi-lengthy trip. The Taig lathe is small enough that I can take it with me when needed and produce small parts or pens where ever I go. That would be much more difficult with one of the small imports (I think). Ed ------- Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:42:03 -0000 From: "Tom Munroe" Subject: Re: Pen Turning on Taig I have been using my Taig for over a year to make wooden pens.It's best advantage I see for this job is it's size. I have to sit to work and my little Taig is set up on top of a students desk with a large enclosure over it to control dust and chips in the home shop. It does a very fine job. I never use the metal working accessories to work on the pens. The better pens are more of a flowing thing and don't really have "straight lines". I also have a metalworking shop in my garage and therefore don't do much metal work on the Taig except for tiny delicate parts. I have a larger wood lathe outside in the garage for wood bowls and such. All said and done I'm very happy with the Taig and its ability to make nice pens in a small area. It just keeps going and going. I did make up a larger tool rest for my wood chisels though. The one supplied is just too short in length. You need one that is slightly longer than a pen and it's bushings or you will be forever adjusting it to get good work. I recommend you get the collet set to hold the mandrel as well. I've been struggling along using my 3- jaw to do the job but it's not really safe. I'm getting my collet set next week and hopefully will save my knuckles a bit. Please feel free to contact me off list if you have any personal questions about my work. Hope this helps some, Taig is a fine machine for pen making. Tom Munroe ------- Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:36:53 -0500 From: "Michael F. Looney" Subject: Re: Re: Pen Turning on Taig ED: I don't know where you came up with the facts that the other lathes are not has good or accurate has a taig. I have both at one time and I could do everything I wanted and the accuracy was the same on both machines. Now for small trip every time you move a machine it affect how good the machine will be, so moving a machine no matter how small or big is never a good idea in my book. My biggest problem with the taig was it was too limited in what it could do, and what it didn't have on it for the costs, but for small project at the time it was a good little machine, but I like my bigger machine I have now for making pens which is what I do for a living now. The 7X10 or 12 will weigh in at 90 pounds, so it a little bit heavy to be carrying around all the time, but for a person that makes over 200 pens a week I will take the 7X12 over the taig because of the feed on it and the smoothness of the cut, then to try and do it by hand and have a cut that I have to sand a lot to get it ! smooth. Time is money here for me. Mike Looney ------- Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:45:49 -0000 From: "Ed Chesnut" Subject: Re: Pen Turning on Taig I defer to your expertise. (Maybe I've been reading too much into Taig owner satisfaction comments that I've seen -- and, admittedly 1) I'm a Taig owner (happy) 2) I'm not an owner of another lathe (nor have I ever been), 3) I don't belong to any other machinist web group and 4) I only make about 75 pens per year.) Sorry if I was not accurate or if I offended. Ed ------- Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:12:12 -0500 From: "Michael F. Looney" Subject: Re: Re: Pen Turning on Taig ED: I'm sorry I didn't mean it to sound that way, I was just pointing out that they are as good has a taig and the work you can do is the same but it also has a power feed which makes it nice for wood turning. Plus it would wear out my hand if I had to turn it that many times for the amount of pens that I turn each week. What I do is to use the lathe metal cutters to turn the wood down to the size I need and then I can put any design I want in the pen, so when it comes to putting the design in the pen for someone that wants a special type of design, I am working with a round piece of wood instead of a square piece, it makes it easier to work with. I make mostly Cigar pens and double twist on my machines, and I made a attachment that I can have a vacuum hose over top of the cutter to take away the sawdust so I have very little clean up, and very little dust all over my workshop. There is a company called Woodwrite that may sell you this attachment that will fit your taig machine without any machining that needs to be done, but the cutting tool is behind the wood and not in front of it and this piece fit around the cutting tool without getting in the way. I will try and take a picture of it for you if you want me to and send it to you so that you can see what it look like and see if you would like it to use on your machine to keep the mess down to almost nothing. Give me your E-mail address and I will send you the photo. Mike Looney ------- NOTE TO FILE: OK, enough of lathe comparing here. More information on comparing lathes is naturally found in the file "Lathe Comparisons", and there may be more comments there on lathes for pen turning. The current pen file is supposed to be mainly about pen how-to's and tips. ------- Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 04:28:30 -0000 From: "Ed Chesnut" Subject: Re: Pen Turning on Taig I've been playing with a cutting tool geometry I saw in the December 2003/January 2004 issue of Machinist's Workshop magazine. A Mr. Clinton James of Des Moines, WA submitted the tip for the Tips and Tricks section of the magazine which is printed on page 47. The geometry of this tool provides for a "shearing" or "slicing" cut which is very smooth - at least on all the woods on which I've tried it. I'll try to shoot a photo or two over the weekend - since a photo is worth a thousand words. When you see it, I think you'll immediately have a "feel" for why it cuts so smoothly - but it is certainly limited to straight (no curve) cuts. The technique you mentioned with a rear mounted tool post and "up- side down" cutting tool really does sound good - particularly with a suction tip riding along with it on the carriage! Ed ------- Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 01:46:05 -0000 From: "Ed Chesnut" Subject: Smooth cut tool I just finished uploading 2 photos which describe the smooth cutting tool I mentioned in the pen making thread. The photos are in the photo section in the oregonwoodconnections album. I haven't a lot of experience with the tool, but it is already my favorite when turning low density woods in pen making. It greatly reduces the "tearing" of weak wood fibers - and the "unsupported" fibers at the edge of the pores in woods like oak and mahogany. The resulting "as cut finish" is very good - allowing turning to very near final diameter before beginning sanding. Someday I'll have to grind another tool at the recommended angle to see how it might behave. Oh, I guess I should "come clean". I DID try the common American theme of "if a little is good, then more should be better". I ground a tool wherein the top face was at a 45 degree angle (as seen in the end view)- in short, more was definitely not better! Finally, Mr. James used the tool geometry to finish turn nylon and Delrin plastic and (following some experimental cuts) reported very good surface finish when used on 6061 aluminum, 12L14 steel and 360 brass. He also reported that stoning only the front (relief) face of the tool was needed - there was no noticeable benefit from stoning the top face. Ed ------- Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 02:19:07 -0000 From: "Patriciu N. Radulescu" Subject: New to pen turning Hi everyone! Which is the best way to begin at pen turning on a Taig? Metalworking way or the woodworking way. I plan to get started but I want to know in advance what accessories to buy. Thanks in advance for the replies. ------- Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:29:29 -0700 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: New to pen turning Hi Patriciu, I've documented what I do on my web site. I used a Sherline, but there really isn't any difference with the Taig. The course I took at Lee Valley used a Taig. http://www.DaveHylands.com/Wood-Working/ ------- Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 06:08:35 -0000 From: "Ed Chesnut" Subject: Re: New to pen turning I use both ways, though most often I do rough turning by hand with a gouge and final sizing using metal working techniques. I'm not much for beads and bulges on pens. I happen to really like straight pens or smooth flowing curves from one end of the blank to the other - so I just don't do a lot of custom shaping with woodworking tools. (I size both ends with precision and sand in the curve if I'm shooting for a smoothly rounded taper.) You'll find the stock Taig woodworking tool rest needs modification (or at least I did). I added a 1)longer bar which eliminated the 2) "bump" in the middle - which allows "sliding" along the tool rest for its full length. Have fun, Ed ------- Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:41:46 -0000 From: "Lynn Livingston" Subject: Re: Feed and Speed. In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, benedict wrote: >> Heh! Actually, yeah, I like writing pens. I got bit by the bug a number of years ago, but hit burnout because I got the wise-ass idea to make them as presents. Nothing like cranking out twenty pens in a month to kill a hobby for you. I did recently get back into it, but I'm only making them if I have a good idea for a one-off pen. Amen to that. I have twice turned down offers to turn 50+ pens because I knew it would kill it for me. One pen, or fifty, I'd have to do them all manually. I've been doing this for apprx 8mos and have only turned out about 75 pens. Kinds of puts it in perspective. >> I'm still doing mine on the Taig. Though I do have a Delta Midi I got when a cohort had to close down his wood shop. I too, got the Delta Midi. Not that the Taig couldn't handle it, I just don't have to re-rig the Taig for metal cutting now after making some pens. I also have made a few aluminum pens on the Taig. I hope to make a steel pen soon. >> Have you checked out Chris Klindt's tutorial for doing inlay using CNC Toolkit? He does some tremendous stuff with a Taig mill and CNC rotary table. Here's his URL: http://www.klickcue.com After seeing what he was doing with pool cues, I wanted to do similarly intricate work on pens. Yes I have and I agree with you wholeheartedly. We emailed a few times and really, I guess that's when I knew for sure I'd have to have a CNC rotary table to do that kind of stuff. I have done some inlays by manual indexing, but it's just too long a process, although the CNC mill does make it doable. I mostly do inlays with inlace or real stone (gound). This type inlay is doable with manual indexing and the CNC mill. Looks great as well. >> So far I've met lots of people who were interested, but few who wanted to shell out the money. I had a brief interest in trying to sell them at one of the local shops (lotsa touristy places here), but there's already a pen maker in town who's selling very nicely finished koa wood pens for less than ten bucks. (I get the feeling they're being cranked out on a duplicator. Lots of identical pens.) Even with inlay work there's no way I can compete. I think the problem is the people I associate with. We all lose pens. Everyone I work with loses pens. Except for one guy. But he collects them. Mont Blanc, mostly, so again I'm not even in the running. I can see the situation and I would imagine that it's just a matter of time before the demand in my local market goes away. You are right, most folks won't shell out what it takes to buy one of these pens (including me I imagine). Especially when you realize you can buy a pen from overseas, within 50% quality for 1/10th the price. >> How'd you get people to see your pens in the first place? I just started carrying around a few when I first made them and used them in front of people. When they'd ask where I got it, I told them that I made them. That will usually blow there socks down a little. But I never tried to sell them at first because I didn't think I had the skills to build a "wantable" product. So it kind of, in a weird sort of way, added to the mystique a little more when I would refuse to make anybody one. It was really all innocent on my part, as I didn't want to fool with the sales part. Then a friend bought a couple from me, and promptly went out and doubled his investment. So, I was selling them after all without even trying to. So, the rest as they say is history and they've all been sold by word of mouth. I tell you, I'm not a salesman in the least. I'm not even a decent "people person". I'm really most happy if you leave me alone and let me play with my hobbies. But with these pens, I truly only have to make them and show them. They sell themselves. It's really fascinating for me to watch. Mind you now, I'm not selling a lot of pens. I average probably 3 or 4 a week. But that's my limit of production too. Now that I'm getting into making my own fittings, powder coating, inlays and one- offs, my production will be cut big-time. But, I'm only doing it for the learning and exploring aspect. In other words, I'm having fun and that tells me without a doubt I could never make a living at it! :-) Best to you, Lynn ------- Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:58:44 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: Re: Feed and Speed. On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Lynn Livingston wrote: > I too, got the Delta Midi. Not that the Taig couldn't handle it, I just > don't have to re-rig the Taig for metal cutting now after making some > pens. I also have made a few aluminum pens on the Taig. I hope to make > a steel pen soon. I haven't made any metal pens, but there was one I wanted to make. I don't think I'll be doing it any time soon, so I'll share with the group in case there are other pen makers out there: Make all the fittings out of aluminum or titanium. The barrels are made by getting small diameter carbon fiber "sock" from a high power rocket supplier and vacuum bagging it over a removable mandrel. This is then turned down to size and is finished normally. The whole thing winds up being super light and very "bling bling". Not a writing instrument I'd necessarily tote around, but I figure the next time I see an import car with a carbon fiber hood, triple decker spoiler, and a half-primer half-yellow paint job, the driver might be interested. ;) > I have done some inlays by manual indexing, but it's just too long a > process, although the CNC mill does make it doable. I mostly do inlays > with inlace or real stone (ground). This type inlay is doable with manual > indexing and the CNC mill. Looks great as well. Do you have any pictures of some inlace or stone inlay you've done? I'd be very very interested to see how it looks. I've done some simple inlay using ebony and tagua nut, but it wasn't a challenging shape, so I didn't run into the geometry problems Chris has had to work through. > I never tried to sell them at first because I didn't think I had the > skills to build a "wantable" product. That's where I am now. Not with the blown-down socks, but with the not thinking I've got the skills to build a wantable product. > So it kind of, in a weird sort of way, added to the mystique a little > more when I would refuse to make anybody one. Heh! Fixed supply, and you just upped the demand! Hey, I've got a question for you: Have you tried turning the barrels using CNC? Here's a trick I've done with my Taig lathe and mill. I'd post pictures, but I never took any when I've had this setup in place. So I'll try words: I got some 1/2" aluminum and made a riser block for the foot of the lathe. It's fitted with #10-32 screws that match the T-slots on the mill. It lets me unbolt the entire lathe from its mounting board, and mount the whole thing (minus motor) onto the mill table. With the mill spindle removed and the mill motor mounted on the lathe spindle, the whole thing is now a CNC lathe. The toolpost(s) mount to the Z axis (which has lots of #10-32 tapped holes in it). I mount it with the lathe headstock on the left, so the tools have to mount upside-down in their toolposts when arranging things this way, but it works out well. One reason I don't use this setup often is because for short stuff I'll just stick a 4-jaw on the mill spindle, clamp the tools in the mill vise, and use it like a vertical lathe. I don't do much long stuff, so this vertical lathe setup works for most of what I do. But for long stuff that needs the tailstock support (like pens), this arrangement of just bolting the whole lathe on the mill table works well and takes very little time to set up. This is another reason why Tony Jeffree's Comprehensive Dividing Head setup looks so attractive. If I could arrange it so the worm wheel was permanently attached to the lathe pulley, then something like this could be done: 1 - Mount the lathe on the mill table, use the mill+lathe as a CNC lathe. Turn the part. 2 - Leaving the lathe and work in place, remove the lathe motor and install the stepper+worm gear so the lathe spindle becomes a dividing head. 3 - Use the lathe as a rotary axis to mill out the pockets for inlay. Since I know the geometry of the part has not changed (nothing moved), cutting pockets to consistant depth, even on a part that's changing diameter constantly along its length, should not pose a problem. So far I haven't done this for a pen, mostly because I haven't built Tony's dividing head setup. But there's a lot of appeal to the idea, for me at least. Most of the "gosh" stuff I've done with pens has been in blank preparation. I uploaded a picture to my photo directory of a pen I made last year. (Sorry about the ghastly lighting on the picture... it was taken using a flatbed scanner.) I made the pen for my brother-in-law. The barrels use deer antler he collected while walking around his ranch. The bands at either end of the barrels are stacked ebony and box elder burl. The ebony is 0.050" thick (I think... this was a year ago) and is cut with the grain following the axis of the barrel. The box elder is something like 0.100 or 0.150". I don't remember. I'm not real keen on using antler as a material. I doubt I'll use it again. The shop stank for days. ;) Right after I made that one, though, I made one using a similar design for my father. It was cut from buckeye with ebony rings in the same sort of pattern, with buckeye in-between the ebony bands as well. I cut all the buckeye from the same piece of wood, and took the cuts so the grain all lined up and depths were consistant throughout (0.060" parting tool to part off the buckeye, so 0.060" thick pieces of ebony to bring it back to the right position). Much less smelly, and a nicer pen, but I didn't take any pictures. Ah well... I'm rambling. I'll quit now. Tom ------- Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:32:35 -0000 From: "Mike Gatzke" Subject: Feed and Speed. Howdy all, just caught the end of this thread and am letting you know that I also do cues with recon stone inlay on a taig lathe and cnc mill set up. Any questions I can answer for you on your pen inlay I would do my best to help out. Also you might contact William Lee at http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx/ for more of the pen-cue conversation. Thanks Mike Gatzke www.gatzkecues.com ------- Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:25:20 -1000 (HST) From: benedict-listx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: pen turning [taigtools] On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, gtrostahs wrote: > Is anyone using the taig for pen turning and how is it going. I'm > having trouble with my blank turning on the mandrel. Thanks for any > help. Maybe we could stay in contact because I know I will have many > questions. Thanks, Gary I do use mine for pen turning from time to time. And yeah, barrels spin on the mandrel if the tool digs in. I just do lots (and lots) and lots of shallow passes. But you can run the tool as fast as the carriage will move during roughing, so it's not as bad as it would be with metal. I slow down the feed during the last few passes. Tom ------- Subject: Pole Lathe Pen Project Completed [Oldtools list] From: Darrell & Kathy Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 12:53:50 -0400 The Pole-lathe Pen: A Tale of High Adventure and Crazy Ideas. It all started one day whilst I was perusing the APT website at www.bodgers.org.uk and saw how many varied and interesting items were being turned on pole lathes. Chair legs, cups, bowls, plates, spoons, and so forth. This inspired me to try turning a pen on my pole lathe. First off, I needed a way to mount the pen mandrel between the dead centres on my lathe. The mandrel has a #2 Morse taper on the drive end (for headstock spindle) and a small dimple on the tailstock end. The pole lathe uses a pair of dead centres. The tailstock end will fit fine, but the head-stock end of the mandrel needs to be mounted in something to allow it to be held on a dead centre. I think I need a drive block, which will hold the pen mandrel and provide something to take the pole lathe's drive rope. How about a MT2 socket drilled into a block of hardwood? I googled and searched EBay, and found a MT2 reamer cheap. The wooden drive block was made on my General lathe at home and, whilst I'm certain I *could* have made it on my pole lathe, I am also certain it would have been much more difficult and not nearly as accurate a job. I turned some scrap beech into a spool shape to hold the drive rope from the pole lathe. Then I bored a hole using a 5/8 brad point bit in a drill chuck mounted in the lathe tailstock. This will accept the pen mandrel's MT2 shank. I chucked the MT2 reamer in a bit brace and reamed the hole. I mounted the new wooden drive block with the pen mandrel in it on the lathe and checked for concentricity. Not good. Wobbles like crazy. Shakin' like a dog tryin' to pass a peach pit sideways. Not to worry, I have some experience with reaming holes for windsor chair legs, so I know how to adjust a tapered hole. I carefully noted which was the "high" side and reamed a bit more, while pressing the reamer away from the "high" spot. After a couple of adjustments, the drive block assembly turns smooth and concentric. I made up a set of curly maple blanks for a pen, plus a set of "dummy" blanks from beech, for testing. I have a Mark I Bodger's Muddle mounted on my lathe. It's a transverse mounted twin-bow recoil mechanism rather than a traditional long pole. See the Plans section on the APT website for details. The only serious concern I had was the potential for bending or pulling off the mandrel rig. The drive rope is pulling "mostly" down, but a bit away from the lathe, so it could possibly pull the "tailstock" end of the pen mandrel out of the lathe. In the past I have had problems with the ropes on the bows breaking, which would be a disaster with the pen mandrel, because there is no recoil, just the drive rope pulling the work off the lathe!. So I decided to cut a sapling and use the lathe as a true pole lathe. Fewer moving parts = fewer potential problems. Another concern is how tightly the work is held. Too much pressure from the centres will cause the pen mandrel to bow, as it's only a skinny 7mm steel rod. And if all that were not enough to worry about, then how about pulling the pen mandrel out of the block when I'm done turning? A MT2 will hold plenty tight on hard steel where there is no compression of the parts, but if one piece is wood, then the taper may get so tightly locked I cannot seperate the assembly. The only thing I could think of is to bore a hole through the headstock end of the wooden block so I can insert a punch to drive out the pen mandrel. This hole must not interfere with dead centres holding the assembly in the lathe. I drilled a 1/4 inch hole from the socket side of the blank, out through the other end, at an angle so as not to hit the centre point. A 6 inch piece of 3/16 stainless steel rod will serve as a knockout bar. This drive block may end up as a single-use item, as I may have to destroy it to get the pen mandrel out... Rather than try to take the blank from square to round on the lathe, I will first make it sort-of-round with a chisel and block plane. The rounder it is when I start, the better it will 'turn' out (pun intented). http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/01_driveblock.jpg The Bodger's Muddle was set aside, and an ironwood (hop hornbeam) pole was substituted as a recoil. This worked fine, as one would expect because after all, it IS a pole lathe. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/02_polelathe.jpg I mounted the beech test parts on the mandrel and chucked the assembly in the lathe. It spun quite nicely. I tried turning down to a smooth cylinder, and encountered my first problem. Too much flex in the mandrel shaft. That, combined with the tool rest being FAR too far away from the work, resulted in some very nasty behaviour. I was afraid I was going to bend the pen mandrel shaft. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/03_loading.jpg I tried loading the curly maple pen blanks on the mandrel, thinking that I would reduce the risk of damage to the shaft by using it less. This was even worse, because the figured maple is prone to catches where the grain is diving. Egads! This is so bad I might have to give up on the whole idea. It's time to go to the beach anyways, so I left the problem till later. Hopefully I will have an inspiration or something... Here's what I did after some serious thinkin'... I dismounted the drive block assembly and shortened the mandrel so that it would hold only one half of the pen. This means that I'll have to turn the two pieces separately but the shorter mandrel will reduce deflection a lot. I also built a closer tool rest, just for turning half a pen. This rest was screwed solidly to the lathe bed. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/04_mounted.jpg Now the turning went MUCH better. I was able to turn down the first half of the maple blank with only a wee bit of tearout left. I didn't want to chase the tearout any farther for fear it would make the turning too small to use. My tools are 'reasonably' sharp, but far from prefect, as I'm working with some pretty basic equipment. I have a 1 1/2 inch roughing gouge, a 1 1/4 inch skew, and a parting tool. For sharpening I have a 1000 grit slipstone. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/05_turning.jpg The second maple blank was going well, until a grain reversal at a weak point tore a huge hunk of wood out, right down to the brass. Perhaps I can find the lost piece and glue it back on? I got down on my hands and knees and fought with the ants under the lathe, but alas! I could not find that bit of wood. Good thing SWMBO wsn't still hanging around with the camera. Lacking a piece to glue back in as a repair, I had to abandon the experiment. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/06_nasssty.jpg Tenacity (or as *some* would say "stubborness") being one of my virtues, I refused to give in to total defeat, and went back to the beech test blanks. I finish turned them sanded and burnished with a hand ful of shavings. Wow! The beech takes on a beautiful polished sheen simply with burnishing! I applied some friction polish to the pieces and ended up with a very acceptable looking "pen". There were no tubes mounted in these blanks, so the turning is a bit off centre, and the hardware won't stay in place, but this is for the "You Get The Idea" (tm Roy Underhill) effect. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/07_proof_concept.jpg I will try and rescue the maple pen and finish it on the pole lathe next weekend. Wish me luck, eh! Meanwhile, back at the ranch, er home... So I have a set of mangled curly maple pen blanks. One has a big hunk torn out of it, right down to the brass. The other was turned too skinny in a vain attenpt to chase down some tearout. Now what do I do? My wife Kathy has more experience turning pens than I, so I begged for some advice. Sure enough, she's seen the same torn-out-chunk problem resolved by our friend Jim Shaver. She said he just turned the blank down to the brass tube, careful not to cut into the brass, and squared up the end of the remaining wood. A new piece was drilled, and one end squared up with a pen mill (this is why you save all your teeny scraps of "interesting" wood!) and glued into place. After it dries, you square up the new end with the mill and go back to the lathe. So off I went to see if I could make this work. The torn blank was quickly and easily fixed up, with a block of beech added onto the end. The skinny blank needed about half it's length turned down. This went OK, but when I was sanding the remaining CA glue off by hand the tube came loose and the rest of the wood slipped off. An Omen! Right, cut another piece of beech and replace the entire thing. So now I have a pen that's 3/4 beech, with a bit of curly maple left. Kinda looks like I patched a beech pen with maple instead of the other way 'round. I put the blanks into the bench vice and used a chisel to make them roughly round (again). I'm all set for next weekend with the pole lathe now. ---- time passes slowly, oh so very slowly, through a short yet uninspiring work week -------- Canada Day found me out in the yard at the cottage with the pole lathe again. My son David was wielding the camera this time. He's 10, he knows a bit about light and focus, but in practical terms he just points and shoots anything that looks interesting to him. We got some really intereating shots to say the least... Anyways, I mounted one pen blank on the shortened mandrel and took a freshly honed gouge to it. This time, most of the kinks had been worked out and everything went reasonably well. A bit of candle wax in the depressions that take the dead centres makes everything run more smoothly. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/08_mandrel.jpg I got the blanks turned down to meet the bushings, sanded to 400 grit, and then applied a friction polish. I suspect that a pole lathe is not the best means of doing a friction polish finish, as you don't get a whole lot of speed, but it worked! http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/09_finish.jpg I used one of those little clamp-on vises on the picnic table to press the pen parts together. We have 4 of these vises hanging around now. Seems I cannot turn them down when they're on sale at Canadian Tire for $9.99 http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/10_assembly.jpg And then, the moment of truth, does it work? Yes! Success!! I have made a pen on a pole lathe. It's not the prettiest pen I've ever made. Well, OK it's the UGLIEST pen I've made, but by gosh it's been the most fun! http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/168/11_pen.jpg Darrell Oakville ON Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User ------- Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:24:19 -0800 From: "Rulon Beesley" Subject: RE: turning pens on a Taig? [taigtools] On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, argon5w wrote: > My son would like to make some wood pens on the Taig. The pen mandrels > that I have found online are for Morse taper machines. Is the mandrel > anything other than a shaft between centers? Tom Benedict wrote: > The Taig works really well for turning pens. > I think I got my mandrel from Penn State. They have one to fit the > Taig's spindle thread, or they used to, anyway. But I don't see any > problem chucking some drill rod with tailstock support and using > that instead. The Taig works great for pens. If you have the collet holder, the ¼" collet works great with the pen mandrel -- you can also shorten the mandrel to fit the pen you're turning (by inserting more of the mandrel into the headstock, through the collet), cutting down on 'whip' and helping the mandrel run more true. You may want to check Berea and Craft Supplies USA-many pen turners feel their kits are a 'cut above' Penn State's. YMMV. Ru ------- Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 02:59:01 -0000 From: "buffaloman97405" Subject: Re: turning pens on a Taig? Taig has a blank spindle nose adapter. Place on the spindle and drill it out to slip fit size of the mandrel rod. The mandrel has a flat side on it. Drill and tap one side of the adapter for a setscrew and mount the mandrel in the Taig. If I remember correctly the mandrel is a little long. If so be careful to remember not to cut it on the center drilled end. The Taig live centers I had left much to be desired. I made my own slip-on one and it works just fine. Good luck. Bill ------- Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:44:33 -0000 From: "Paul Huffman" Subject: Re: turning pens on a Taig? Arizona Sihloette(sp) is also a great place to do business for kits and wood, and Bill is a great guy to boot. Lots of stabelized stuff. If you haven't yet, check out the yahoo penturners group, or the IAP at penturners.org Paul in OKC ------- Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:21:59 -0500 From: Darrell & Kathy Subject: [OldTools] I made something weird. Again. Oh the insanity! Lee Valley Tools recently started carrying some new pen kits and pen blanks. My daughter saw the black & yellow acetate in the catalog, and she wanted a pen made of the stuff. And my son wanted the black & blue acetate. Kathy wanted to try the black & bronze. Me? I like wood, and I have lots of interesting wood, so I just ordered a few pen kits for myself, plus their strange stuff. First one we tried was Michelle's yellow acetate pen. Kathy emailed our friend Jim (who makes a LOT of pens) and asked if he had any warnings/ hints/advice regarding this acetate stuff. e replied at length, very helpful, thanks loads Jim! Michelle cranked the post drill (made by A. B. Jardine, in Hespeler Ontario) for 20 minutes to bore out the holes in the blanks. I had the drill set on low speed, which for her was about 30 rpm but practically infinite torque, what with the gear reduction and all. She took a turn at the lathe too. Had to stand on a step stool to reach, but she did a fine job. She saved pretty much all the shavings and offcuts from her pen, a whole box of the stuff. The pen polished up nicely and looks very cool. David's pen was next. He's old enough that he could handle most of the work himself, but he had me do the initial rounding off of the blanks, and the final pass with the skew. He has to get some more practice in with that tool. Hmmm, Mother's day is coming up in the not-so-distant-future, maybe a candle holder...? Anyways, we made one mistake on his pen. I had shortened up the mandrel so it would take only half a pen, which makes for a much stiffer blank, and better turning experience for the youngsters (vibration is the bane of most turning). We ended up with the wrong bushing at one end of the long section. Luckily, it was too big rather than too small, so he remounted and re-turned that part. Good save. His pen turned out really well, the colours (colors, Paddy) are quite striking. And then the insanity started. Kathy jokingly suggested that I try making a solid pewter pen, instead of just casting a pewter ring on one, like the first pen I made. Ha Ha, yes, very funny. Hmmm... maybe I could - No, no, it would never work. Yah but if I - Nah, can't be done. Well, if I could do it like this? Possibly, or maybe...*light goes on* Yes, that would work! I figured I could bore a hole in a piece of scrap with, say, a #10 Rockford Bit Co auger and a Yankee brace, then mount the brass tube on a piece of dowel that runs down the very (or as close to very as I can get) centre of the hole, I could pour in the pewter and cast a roundish blank for the pen. So whilst David was busy with his Blue Pen, I set up the casting furnace (camp stove, picked up off the curb last spring; gotta love free stuff! :^) and started messing about with molten metal. The blank for the lower end of then pen came out OK. I had to ream a bit of seepage from inside the brass tube and there were a lot of small voids in the casting. And one big void where a small bit of wood left in the bottom of the mold had floated up into the melt. Most of that one turned off OK. he shavings off the lathe were like silver brillo. I was using old carbon steel turning chisels, not even that newfangled HSS stuff, and the pewter turned easily. The blank polished up real nice. I mounted the working parts et voila! it is half a pen. Then I got out a few pens and tried the tops of them on the new one, thinking that an all-pewter pen would be kinda heavy. But alas, none of the woods looked good against the pewter. So I decided to go for a pewter top anyways. That's gonna be one HEAVY pen! I set up the same as before, melted the pewter (part of a pewter plate from Birks, acquired from a garage sale for $1) and poured. After putting everything away and letting the casting cool a while I noticed that the end of the dowel was askew. Uh Oh. When I split open the form I found that the dowel & tube had come loose and tipped over, ruining the casting. Surprise! Wood floats in molten tin! Duh, of course it does. OK, next time I will wire the wood in SOLIDLY. Um, *if* I can salvage the brass tube... Well, that was enough for one night. ** temporal discontinuity ** Back in the shop again, and this time I made sure the brass tube could not move during the pour. Some work with a propane torch had the pewter dripping off the brass tube and I was soon back in business. The second piece (the top of the pen) came out exactly like the first, a lot of little bubbles scattered about but otherwise fine. Pewter turns easily, and makes such cool shavings. And there's no grain to worry about. Finally, I assembled the pen and wrote "It is good" on a scrap of paper. And so it was. I doubt I will be carrying this one in my shirt pocket, it's too heavy. I guess I will have to start wearing a jacket to work now. Or a holster for the Heavy Pen. Betcha that's one writing instrument that'll get attention at an airport security check. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/60/100_3811.JPG http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/data/media/60/100_3816.JPG It ain't wood, but I used old woodworkin' tools to make it! Darrell Oakville ON Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User ------- Question for the Ye old Penmaker [sherline] Posted by: "bitshird" zero-koolx~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:04 pm (PDT) Do you stabilize any wood before turning it, or just rely on the grain structure, if you do, what is used to stabilize wood prior to turning if you don't mind sharing some info if possible Thanks Ken Ferrell ------- Re: Question for the Ye old Penmaker Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:22 am (PDT) Hi Ken: It really depends on the wood. Nice solid hardwoods don't need stabilization. When you start playing with some of the splalted woods, you're dealing with decay (the black lines are caused by bacteria eating the wood), and the wood starts to get softer, and sometimes is on the verge of falling apart. So, you generally only need to stabilize the wood when it's soft, or perhaps has cracks and you feel it might not stand up to the machining process. I've also worked with some really soft cedars that didn't require any stabilizing. The wood was good and healthy and had a nice solid feel to it. Here you need to be careful as you start to thin out the wood (when there's only a tiny bit left above the brass), as it's relatively easy to get tearouts. The few times I've stabilized something, it's been when I'm getting close to finishing and I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with the "feel". In these cases, I've used Crazy glue. You might get some discoloration, but it depends on the wood. If the discoloration fits with the grain, I generally don't worry about it. If I'm concerned, I'll apply glue to the entire surface to get a more uniform discoloration. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Re: Question for the Ye old Penmaker Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com Date: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:02 pm (PDT) > I was thinking of trying to mill some Maple Not for a pen but more like an award plaque, also have some very nice White Oak blocks about 3x3x5 and larger I did a piece of Maple for a friend and it had just a bit of fuzz, the wood cut OK with carbide end mills but I was wondering if stabilizing would prevent the fuzzy places, an after doing the piece for my friend I was thinking about taking orders for some plaques. < Hi Ken: A brush with a piece of sandpaper will probably remove the fuzz, if it's on a flat surface. The problem with trying to stabilize something like maple is that the stabilizer won't penetrate very far into the surface. You might get away with leaving a few thou everywhere, then stabilizing (if you can do it in place) and then doing a finish pass. If your endmill isn't perfectly perpendicular, you'll get fuzz. I know that when machining stuff like Delrin (which is a fairly hard pastic), I still get bits of fuzz. Sometimes machining in the opposite direction helps. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 21:46:33 -0400 From: Tom Price Subject: [OldTools] Galoot Pennerie Esteemed Galoots, Ok, I made the term up. No such thing as pennerie at least in describing the art of making pens (aka 'writing instruments'). But what the heck. It sounds good. In looking back on it, I'm not quite sure how I got started down this particular slope. Maybe a desire to give gifts to friends at work, those celebrating promotions or retirement - lots of us boomers getting ready to leave the work rolls in the next few years. Lathe work, figured woods, it seemed like something to try. No one warned me about the wood hoarding, obsessing about finishes, desire to try new kits, etc. Of course, being a Galoot, I have accumulated hunks of found wood over the last several years, not exactly sure what I would make from them. Pen blanks. Yep. Like any good Galoot, not having a full size Neanderbuddy is not a stopper as long as I have my trusty frame resaw. This was an apricot log from a friend who took a tree down last year: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/apricot_log_resaw.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/apricot_log_xcut.jpg Once you get the log sectioned, cutting blanks goes fast, about 1" per stroke. Good exercise too: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/apricot_resaw.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/resaw_apricot_mojo.jpg I also got some cherry from another source a few years ago and planed it down to get a look at the grain: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/wild_cherry_log.jpg The blanks turned out to be promising, what the pen turners call water-color cherry (these were misted with water): http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/cherry_blanks.jpg Back to the apricot. Ok, briefly, when you do a pen, you take the blank, bore it out with a specific bit, glue in a brass tube and mount it on a mandrel for turning. Regarding diameter, you use bushings as a guide - these are mounted on the mandrel and are specific to the kit. Use of the dreaded skew is important if you want turnings that don't require a lot of sanding. A roughing gouge is nice if you want to quickly turn the square blanks down: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/the_roughing_gouge.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/roughing_blank.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/after_roughing.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/skew_on_burl.jpg Once I get the blank where I want it, I sand it and seal it with shellac. I sand and polish that, then either leave it alone, or finish with a cyanoacrylate glue (CA) finish - all the rage in penturning circles: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/sealed_and-polished.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/after_ca_finish.jpg The CA finish requires some sanding and polishing after application but it does stand up to use pretty well. Some finished pens. The apricot European style: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/apricot_euro.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/apricot_euro_grain.jpg An American flat-top style in birdseye maple: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/birdseyemaple_american_fp.jpg A Sierra in cherry and an Atlas in walnut: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/Pen_pics/first_pens.jpg You could do this on a treadle lathe, the pieces involved are small, but you would want to have morse taper head- and tailstock or ability to mount a chuck on the headstock with a ballbearing tailstock. I use my ancient ShopSm*th. Well, it dates back to 1947. Hey, all this is fun and keeps me out of bars at night. Of course I now have both a saw and wood hoarding problem to contend with. 12 step programs for the latter? Anyone? Oh wait. I forgot for a moment that this is THE SUPPORT GROUP FROM HELL. Never mind. As you were. Tom Price (tomprice03x~xxgmail.com) Will Work For Tools The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at: http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html ------- ye Ol' Pen maker [Sherline] Posted by: "DLH" dheilman1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:17 am ((PST)) Hello John, I take it from your signature, that you turn Pens on your Sherline? I am curious, as I just began doing this myself, as to why you chose the Sherline lathe to turn Pens? Do you use the standard Tool Rests made by Sherline, or have you gone to a 3rd party for them? I am looking for better tool rests and Sherlines. I would love to have something like is used on the Delta, or Jet Midi lathes. Dave H. ------- Re: ye Ol' Pen maker Posted by: "John Guenther" j.guentherx~xxverizon.net Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:45 am ((PST)) Hello Dave, I have used Sherline wood tool rest, PN 3038, and also high speed steel tools held in the stock tool post for straight turning. Both methods work well for me. I chose the Sherline 4400 lathe because I already had it when I started turning pens. I like it because it is small, quiet and works quite well for turning pens from all materials. Most of my pens now are made with CNC control; it allows me to produce more accurate shapes with plastics and metals for pen bodies. I still like to turn pens by hand for relaxation. John D. Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, Virginia ------- Re: ye Ol' Pen maker Posted by: "Jerry Jankura" toolzngluex~xxsbcglobal.net Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:40 pm ((PST)) Hi, John: Have you added CNC to your Sherline lathe, or are you using a different machine? Since most folks using CNC (including me) are doing it on a mill, I'd be interested in knowing the software that you're using to drive the lathe and about any issues you've had. Jerry Jankura ------- Re: ye Ol' Pen maker Posted by: "John Guenther" j.guentherx~xxverizon.net Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:18 pm ((PST)) Hi Jerry: Well, the CNC lathe is a 7x14 mini lathe with my own CNC conversion. As for software I control it with Mach3. I use TurboCADCAM to generate the g-code, or for some processes I write the code by hand. Mach3 also has a nice set of wizards for generating lathe code; I use the wizards a lot. My biggest problems with the lathe were all before I switched over to diameter mode. When I was running in radius mode I kept getting confused on how much material I was removing; now that I am using diameter mode, life is much easier. John D. Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, Virginia ------- Re: ye Ol' Pen maker Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:13 am ((PST)) > Do you use the standard Tool Rests made by Sherline, or have you gone > to a 3rd party for them? I thought I would interject here. I also do pens on my Sherline. I found that I liked the Lee Valley toolrest (for the Taig), so I modified it to work on my Sherline. http://davehylands.com/Wood-Working/Tool-Rest/ Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.DaveHylands.com/ ------- Re: ye Ol' Pen maker & woodworking tool rests Posted by: "Tom Bank" trbankx~xxpaonline.com Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:19 am ((PST)) Dave,... and anyone else looking for a good cheap woodworking tool rest: Some years ago I made one of my own from a piece of old 2.5" ID steel pipe with 3/16" walls. The one I have is 2.5" long, but you could make one any length you wanted. I cut it to shape and then heated and flattened the mounting area, shaped the business edge on a belt sander, mounted it on the mill table and fly cut the mounting area, drilled a mounting hole, and case hardened the business edge. The mount is a 1/4" bolt with a thinned head cut to fit the Sherline slot on two sides, plus I think I ran the threads up a little closer toward the head so I can clamp the thing to the lathe table with a 1/4" flange nut, -- but the threads don't reach the t-slot. It works good and I only paid for the nut and bolt. I'll have to post a picture. Regards, Tom Bank ------- ye Ol' Pen maker at Cabin Fever Posted by: "Ron Ginger" rongingerx~xxroadrunner.com Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:18 am ((PST)) Someone asked about John's lathe -- he has brought it to the last couple Cabin Fever shows, and I understand it will be there again this year. It is a beautiful job of conversion and mounting, in a fine wood cabinet with great dust control and one of the best jobs of mounting the electronics I've seen. Remember also, I will be doing a CNC conversion of an X2 mini mill at the show, and we are going to raffle it off at the end of the show. You will be able to see it converted, watch it run, and someone is going to take it home. Cabin Fever Expo, Jan. 18,19 York PA. Auction of Friday, with a lot of nice machinery and tools and some great models. ron ginger ------- Pen making(?) [sherline] Posted by: "Greg Procter" procterx~xxihug.co.nz Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:20 pm ((PST)) Hi all you pen making fans. Are there designs on-line anywhere for pens? What mechanisims do people use? Or do you make them yourselves? My wife suffers from arthritis in her finger joints and is often/always looking for fatter styles of pen. It would be nice if I could make her what she needs. Regards, Greg.P. NZ ------- Re: Pen making(?) Posted by: "Blair Shallard" bshallardx~xxmac.com Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST)) Hi Greg. I was looking at this for a while. There are quite a few websites which have info about pen turning, but your best starting point is the penturners yahoo group. You can get advice on the best kits to use and where to get them... and of course lots of practical advice on techniques. Cheers, Blair ------- Re: lathe with wood [sherline] Posted by: "DLH" dheilman1x~xxearthlink.net Date: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:49 pm ((PST)) Hi, I turn Pens on my Sherline, plus other Wood Turners, that require Faceplates etc. I Highly recommend that you DO NOT buy the Sherline Wood Rests. They work, but not as good as others. The Sherline offerings are made by people that turn Metal, and not wood. For turning Pens, you can actually use the normal Tool Post and Metal Turning Bits. Makes a very evenly cut Pen. A job that tends to be Boring, as all you do it turn wheels. . . not as much fun as Free Hand tool use. But, using the Tool post does cut a very clean Pen. No humps, Bumps, ripples, etc. Also, when turning very hard woods, those Carbide Metal turning buts cut through the wood like it is Butter! You might give Hut Products a call, or go to www.hutproducts.com and order the Mandrel for the Sherline lathe. They also have a small Tool Rest for about $19, which is not all that fancy, but works better than the Sherline. Happy Turning Dave Heilman Seattle ------- Taig Miniature Lathe for Wood [taigtools] Posted by: "vicky.bagwallax~xxrogers.com" vickybx~xxu214.net Date: Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:21 pm ((PDT)) I wanted to start turning pens as a hobby. I am very very new (zero experience) in lathes or turning and I purchased the Taig Miniature Lathe for Wood turning with all accessories for wood. However, the instruction manual is non-existent and the lathe came with a whole whack of attachments that I have absolutely no idea where to attach or what to use them for. Any help would be appreciated if someone could point me in the right direction for the Taig Miniature Lathe for Wood specifically. I found a lot of information on this lathe for metal work as I understand this was originally for metal work. Thanks and Regards ------- Re: Taig Miniature Lathe for Wood Posted by: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" felicex~xxcasco.net Date: Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:35 pm ((PDT)) I'm assuming you bought it from Lee Valley? I think they're the only ones offering a woodturning version of the lathe. Their instructions are here: http://www.leevalley.com/shopping/Instructions.aspx?p=44583 It isn't amazingly detailed but shows how to set up the woodturning accessories. See our homepage at www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Re: Taig Miniature Lathe for Wood Posted by: "Vicky Bagwalla" vickybx~xxu214.net Date: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:15 pm ((PDT)) Hello Nicholas, Yes. You are correct. I bought it from Lee Valley. I already have that manual. Any other specific information/videos/write-ups/tutorials on this specific lathe? Thanks so much Vicky ------- Re: Taig Miniature Lathe for Wood Posted by: "kd006" kd006x~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:39 pm ((PDT)) Vicky: Having made a few pens from kits on the Taig my best advise is to get some blanks and learn. I don't know what you have for an arbor, I made my from 3/16" rod and threaded the ends, made some bushings the size of the cap, center bit and the top cap. Pens are pretty easy, first one took probably 20 min to finish, seems it takes longer to glue in the inserts and wait for them to cure. I actualy used the cross-slide of the metalworking lathe to turn mine but with a tool rest and sharp turning tool it should only take a few minutes to turn down to size. Penn State has a good video of the process. After you have roughed out the blank, then you need to go through a series of sanding grits to smooth it, finally finishing with your desired finish. For the cost of 10-20 blanks it's well worth it to experiment with turning speed with a turning tool and higher speeds for sanding. Once you really get into pen turning you're going to want a drill press to make your own blanks from local wood, perhaps a arbor press to push in the inserts. Feel free to PM me if you need more info. Kristin ------- Re: Taig Miniature Lathe for Wood Posted by: "Stan Stocker" skstockerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:56 pm ((PDT)) Greetings Vicki; You might take a look at Bonnie Klein's website. She sells (or sold) a wood lathe based on the Taig, using many Taig parts. Her videos are pretty good also. While she isn't a pen turner or professional actress, her skill is impressive and everything she does is done on a Taig headstock lathe. If all you have is small, watching Curt Theobald do a 20 inch segmented platter is cool, but not useful :-) Bonnie explains not just what she is doing, but why she does things a certain way. Smartflix (formerly Technical Video Rentals) has sothatme pen turning videos. Buying entry level DVDs tends to be expensive for a few viewings, renting them for a week for $10 makes sense for stuff you won't watch time after time. Do a search on pen turning at their site, they don't have a separate category for this. If there is a local woodworking, or better yet wood turning club, join up. You can find links to many clubs at the AAW website. The Apple Valley Woodturners has a large video library for members, I believe many other clubs do as well. Some beginning advice regarding turning that may not mean much until you start actually cutting wood: Learn to sharpen tools really, really, really well. Photon splitting sharp at the edge, with the angles for the work to be done. Rolling gouges to produce shearing cuts is something they don't mention in many books. Just roll the gouge into the work, and the shavings just start to slide right off the tool. Speaking of gouges, you can't grind a bowl gouge into a spindle gouge, nor can you grind a spindle gouge into a bowl gouge. They have different flute shapes as well as bevel shapes. Master the skew chisel. It is your friend if you learn to use it well. It's only a slight exaggeration to say that if you can't do it with a skew you must be making a bowl. Think about how tools cut, and how they catch. If you understand what's going on, you don't end up standing there with that dazed look wondering why your work just launched into the wall, at least not too often... And finally, don't confuse keeping the bevel rubbing with burnish the hell out of the work and barely cut. Use the bevel to guide the edge into the work, not as some death grip fulcrum. Relax and let the work happen. Good luck, have fun, stay safe Stan ------- Re: Taig Miniature Lathe for Wood Posted by: "Stephen Ellacott" sellacottx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:47 am ((PDT)) > As stupid as this may sound, I have the mandrel and the bushings for the pen hardware I have, however, I have NO idea how to mount the mandrel on the head and tail stock. I don't know what to attachements to use to do that. Vicky < Hi Vicky, I assume you have Lee Valley part number 88K71.00 - Std. Shaft, Nut & Washer for the Taig Lathe in which case you need to do the following: If you have the three jaw chuck (Lee Valley part number 03J70.05, Taig part number 1050): 1 - Put your three jaw chuck on the Lathe headstock (put a piece of thick cardboard on the lathe bed to protect it when you add or remove a chuck and remove it when done). 2 - Insert the smooth end of the mandrel shaft into the three jaw chuck leaving enough smooth and threaded shaft exposed to put on the bushings and pen blank. Do not put the shaft threads into the chuck jaws - use a spacer if required. 3 - Tighten the chuck jaws using the little "Tommy Bars" supplied with the chuck - Go to # 4 Or, if you have the collet nut and the 1/4" collet (Lee Valley part number 03J70.11, Taig part number 1040 for the set): 1 - Put the 1/4" collet into the collet nut (flat face facing the pen) and install the collect nut on the headstock spindle but do not tighten yet. 2 - Insert the smooth end of the mandrel shaft into the collet leaving enough smooth and threaded shaft exposed to put on the bushings and pen blank. Do not put the shaft threads into the collet - use a spacer if required. 3 - Tighten the collet nut - Go to # 4 4 - Assemble your blank and bushings on the mandrel as per the directions included in the pen package. 5 - Place the washer and nut on the end of the mandrel and tighten. 6 - Attach the tool rest (Lee Valley part number 03J72.02 or 03J72.03, Taig part number 1038) to the bed of the lathe and position it just to clear the blank and tighten. 7 - Take the protective guard off the end of the tailstock point (don't throw it away - it slips back on and has saved me many a poke from the sharp end of the tailstock!) and apply a drop of light oil to the point (3 in 1 motor oil works). 8 - Slide the tailstock onto the lathe and insert the point of the tailstock in the bevel in the end of the mandrel shaft so it rests snugly on the shoulders of the point and tighten the tailstock and tailstock point in place. This prevents the shaft from wobbling and deflecting as you turn the pen. 9 - Set the lathe to its slowest speed, rotate the blank once more by hand to make sure it doesn't hit the tool rest and then start turning! 10 - Keep the point of the tailstock lubricated with a light oil as you turn, or you could purchase a Needle-Bearing Live Center (Lee Valley part number 03J70.19, Taig part number 1151) which requires no lubrication as it turns with the mandrel shaft. Regards, Stephen Ellacott ------- Re: Taig Miniature Lathe for Wood Posted by: "joe" ke4kqnx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:32 am ((PDT)) Vicky, I got a blank mandrel and bored and tapped it to accept the arbor. I also have a piece of 2" x 1" x 1/8 alum angle that I bored two holes in, spaced to match the slots on the cross slide and bolted down for a tool rest. Two good wood chisels will get you started -- a small gouge and a small skew. Now that you have a Taig you can make the bushings for the different size pens. E-mail if I can help you any more. Have fun, make swarf, Joe ------- NOTE TO FILE: This file about pen turning mostly has folks working on electron-burning woodworking or metalworking lathes. The Oldtools group loves manual tools and human powered lathes. For those of you who have never seen a treadle or pole lathe before, you might want to browse through the links in the following message. A lathe like this is a natural for a cabin/cottage off the electrical grid, and can be real fun at home even if you have an electron burner. Manually powered lathes, like handplanes, are super quiet and really gentle on the nerves. The link to finding the archives of Oldtools, and even joining this happy email group (no nasty disputes or politics like many other groups) can be found on my home page: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ ------- Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:07:04 -0400 From: Darrell & Kathy Subject: Re: [OldTools] Re: Treadle lathe kit--the vaporware phase Graham Hughes wrote: > The only real reason I want a morse taper is because I dabble in pen > turning and the pen mandrels don't work well between conical centers. > If you just want to turn things you can get by with a pair of lag screws > you've filed to cones (on a pole lathe), which is what I currently have; > you don't need any of this fancy mumbo-jumbo. I too dabble in pen turning. And I have a pole lathe. And I did manage to do a pen on that lathe. Like this: http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/user pics/10074/01_driveblock.jpg I scavenged a used MT#2 reamer from EB*y. Probably would not work in metal anymore but it worked fine in beech. For those of you with a penchant for hearing The Rest Of The Story you can look here, assuming that the URL doesn't wrap around and get broken: http://galootcentral.com/index.php?option=com_copper minevis&Itemid=2&place=thumbnails&album=216 Darrell LaRue Oakville ON Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User ------- Re: Pen turning [taigtools] Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:09 pm ((PST)) > So bottom line, why do you folks like your Taig so much? would you > still choose it over something else. (I would buy the mandrel from > PSI that has a 3/4"-16 socket on the end for pen turning) Bonnie Klein sells one of the finest pen turning systems available. Highest quality lathe, tooling and accessories. There are dozens of DVDs and tutorials on how to do everything from turning, duplicating, threading and other stuff employing Bonnie's lathe. Bonnie's lathe is really a Taig. Some specialized add-ons. She has done a great job of building a system. No foul there! I am a CNC geek. I make parts on a homebrew contraption. Most of the parts of my machine are off-the-shelf Taig parts. I find the Taig lathe to be the perfect platform to use as a "jumping-off" point. We have a couple of pen-turners in the group. I have many friends that are pen-turners. My 3 favorite chucks are PSI chucks (my dreaded knuckle- buster, which I loath is also PSI). Most pen turners I know end up going in one of two directions --- they stick with pens, but get more and more accurate, and intricate, or they work themselves over to larger wood turning. If you want to do some "light metal work" buy the Taig. Don't be fooled by the size -- I have had huge chunks of metal on the Taig that scared me -- tools squealing -- chips flying and smoking WD-40. The next day I have turned pen ferules with engraved daffodils that took 12 hours to finish. The next week I made sterling silver parts for a vintage flute. I use taps and dies to do threading (even tho I could easily set up the gcode to do it CNC). I once wanted to thread a small pill case on the lathe, but was able to find a bargain gun tap set on ebay. If you are "the other" kind of pen-turner and move on to pepper mills, Wine glasses, and then bowls and art-pieces ------- hey no foul, it is a great hobby. Go with a wood turning lathe (PSI, Jet, Grizzly, Woodtek) -- honest -- you will love a good lathe. Chinese metalworking lathes (or used lathes) can be like buying a used car. It is pretty easy to get a lathe that you won't be happy with. ------- Re: Pen turning Posted by: "Stan Stocker" skstockerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:15 pm ((PST)) Greetings. It sounds like metal work just didn't turn you on enough to get excited about it, so much so that you sold equipment at a loss rather than hang on to it. It sounds like turning does keep your interest - if you still want to turn pens after doing them on a drill press you're a woodturner at heart. So get a wood lathe. I've got wood and metal lathes. The Taig can turn fast enough, so can the Sherline. I've turned wood on metal lathes. I turn wood on wood lathes these days. Do a google on Bonnie Klein. She builds lathes using Taig components for miniature wood turning. If the stuff on her website is a large as you want to go, then perhaps a Taig with the right accessories will meet your needs. After a few passes at wood turning on the Taig I bought a wood lathe. I just wanter more power, a stiffer spindle, and more swing. I like my Taig lathes (yes, plural), but they do not meet my needs for a wood lathe. A PSI/Jet/Insert Chinese 1X8 spindle equipped wood lathe here will probably both save you money and make you a happier camper. The wood chucks will fit. It has a morse taper and larger spindle hole. It has a woodturning tool rest. It has a morse taper tailstock. It's bigger, heavier, cast iron, and the standard accessories from all the vendors are more likely to fit. $160 for a Turncrafter (Go for a package if they have one, save some money!), try to find the bucks for variable speed, add a decent wood chuck with some jaw sets and you'll still be some dollars ahead and have the tool for what your experience says is what you want to do. Mileage may vary, dollar figures swagged. I do this stuff for a living so probably have a much lower tolerance for cobbling stuff together than someone having fun in their shop for R&R. Happy turning, Stan ------- Re: Pen turning Posted by: "stcnc2000" stcncx~xxlycos.com Date: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:40 am ((PST)) If your Taig is CNCed. Take a look here. http://www.cad2gcode.com/lathe You can do a lot more than just pens. Bob ------- Re: Pen turning Posted by: "Lewis hein" lheinx~xxvcn.com Date: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:21 am ((PST)) Hi. The taig lathe works very well for turning pens, especially the power feed version. I do a lot of pens on mine and it is really easy. I even made my own pen mandrel from a shaft out of a sewing machine. A PSI Turncrafter pro is NOT a very good wood lathe. It is underpowered, the belt is very prone to slip, and I can twist the tailstock on mine about 10 degrees. However, that said, it is possible to make the turncrafter pro work (sort of). I do not know much about the carba tec wood lathe but I think it is well made. Also, I recommend the power feed. It really adds a lot. Lewis Hein ------- Re: Pen turning Posted by: "Ken" kvaughanx~xxacsalaska.net Date: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:48 pm ((PST)) > I'm tired of turning pens on my drill press! I can understand that statement -- While you can be woodturning stuff for a taig, been there and done that, and frankly found it was a lot of hassle moving the rests, the little locking screws did not hold well, and neither the one or two post tool rests were solid. I migrated to a Bonnie Klein -- and did it by using my taig head stock and tailstock. The rest came from Bonnie - you get the frame, banjo, adapters, tool rest, and the live center that fits on the taig tailstock. Ain't cheap -- and Bonnie advises that it a better value to get a Jet Midi --- and Bonnie demonstrates with a Jet Midi. I have a variable speed motor on the Klein Lathe and it does good duty. I still turn small stuff on it though I have a big wood lathe that will do large and small stuff well. I also have a Taig set up for metal and it does those things in small scale very very well (again with variable speed). Since my taig wood turning attempts, I have acquired a couple of larger wood lathes. My sense is that you are likely to be more pleased with the Jet, new Delta 12 inch, the turncrafter, or similar than fighting the fit with the taig for wood turning. By the way, a Taig head makes a nifty electric spinner with a variable speed drive and and 8 mm shaft driving a Majacraft flyer. ------- Pen turners & manzanita [sherline] Posted by: "iamstarvin" iamstarvinx~xxfrontiernet.net Date: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:51 am ((PST)) Hello pen turners. About a year and a half ago I got some manzanita burls from a friend. I buried some in my compost pile to see if they would spalt (they don't). I just cut one up and the wood is beautiful, but, full of fissures. I seem to remember from years ago that somehow they have a way of pressurizing epoxy into the fissures? If anyone knows how to do this would you want a piece to try it out? When it's green it twists a lot after it's turned, but seems stable now. If anyone is interested I can try and upload a picture. Steve ------- Re: Pen turners & manzanita Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:51 am ((PST)) Steve: Try a small vacuum chamber, wood thickly coated with resin and wrapped with plastic wrap to keep it where it needs to be. Pump out the air, wait a couple minutes, then depressurize. You need a polyester casting set to get the time before cure for the air to bubble out. See: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKCASTKIT.html Tom Bank ------- Pen turners & manzanita Posted by: "Neil Butterfield" neilbfieldx~xxcox.net Date: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:00 am ((PST)) My experience years ago when turning pens was to just fill fissures, etc. with clear epoxy. It appears black when it hardens, because of the dark hole you're filling, producing a nice spalted look. If you want it a little darker, mix in a dab of black paint or India ink; it doesn't take much. I used this method on spalted maple and for filling other exotics. Neil ------- mandrel for wooden pens [shopbuilttools] Posted by: "the_iliad26" stephen.white200x~xxntlworld.com Date: Fri Dec 3, 2010 8:20 am ((PST)) Hi, does anyone have a wooden pen mandrel plan or have a mandrel they could draw please. Regards Steve ------- Re: mandrel for wooden pens Posted by: "pmriix~xxaol.com" Date: Sat Dec 4, 2010 12:24 am ((PST)) Here's a trick you may want to try. I don't recommend making a mandrel but buying one since you will also get an initial set of bushings. However if you want to make one, here is a trick I've used. 1. Place a drill chuck on the head end of the lathe 2. Find a "long" door hinge pin. (You will need to find which ones fit your tubes nicely. Also you can try the metal rods found at Home Depot or Lowes. For 7mm tubes I've used the pin from the door pin insert that has a spring on it to automatically close the door.) 3. Use a tap and die set to thread one end of the pin 4. Insert the other end of the pin into the drill chuck 5. add your bushings, wood and nut 6. set up as normal and turn your wood This set up usually works for one piece of wood at a time. Also don't forget to put a "dimple" in the threaded end of the pin for the tail stock. Phil Rasmussen ------- Re: mandrel for wooden pens Posted by: "Peter Semple" petersemplex~xxyahoo.com Date: Sun Dec 5, 2010 3:02 pm ((PST)) A pen mandrel at its most basic is 1/4" rod, threaded at one end for a morse taper, and threaded at the other end for a nut to tighten up the pen and bushing assembly. The nut end has a shaped dimple to accept the live end of the lathe. ------- Pen Lathe [shopbuilttools] Posted by: "Earle Rich" erich10983x~xxaol.com Date: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:59 pm ((PDT)) Here's a pen lathe I built last year. I needed something portable enough to take in my RV. I also made several other tools to support my turning. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets/72157624195341926/ I've since gone from turning pens to turning other items such as seam rippers for my sewing friends and hooked rug tools. I'm very interested in ergonomic designs. Most of the seam rippers in stores are terrible. Too tiny, too short and tapered in the wrong direction. Other Flickr sets show the tools. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets/72157624195341926/ This is a set showing the tools set up on a picnic table where we volunteer in Florida. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets/72157624195341926/ Having machine and woodworking tools at home makes it easy to create tools that are just right for the application. My wife is a custom furniture maker so if I have to buy something, there is no argument. Earle Rich www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets http://granitegeek.org http://mvartisans.wordpress.com ------- Re: Pen Lathe Posted by: "gdnichols" gdnicholsx~xxaol.com Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:18 pm ((PDT)) Earle: You have some really great ideas. What is the base of your pen lathe made from? Looks like cast AL. Dale ------- Re: Pen Lathe Posted by: "Earle" erich10983x~xxaol.com Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:03 pm ((PDT)) Most of my tools are built from surplus or 'found' materials. The base was from a mystery machine found in our metal pile at the local dump. I've been fortunate to have worked in a lot of industrial and manufac- turing companies. Many times, when a piece of equipment is surplus or the line has been changed for another product, the command from above is "Make It Go Away!" My wife has be quite cooperative since she knows that if she needs something for her woodworking, I can re-purpose a machine for her use. "It's not what it is, it's what it can become". Earle ------- Lathe newbie pen turning questions [taigtools] Posted by: "t m" felderwwx~xxgreenroom.ca terence_mark Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:53 am ((PDT)) Hi all, I am about to pick up a used Taig lathe, described to me as having all the woodworking accessories. I hope to use it to turn pens and then work up to the big stuff. As I understand it, I can drill the blanks by either holding the square blank in a 4-jaw chuck, or turning the blank round and then mounting in a 3-jaw. I could then mount a drill in a Jacobs chuck mounted on the tailstock. Question 1: If this is correct, the largest tailstock Jacobs chuck I see is 1/4". How would one drill the larger holes needed by many pen kits (e.g. 7mm) if I did not want to keep a drill press ? Question 2: I understand to turn the pen I would need a mandrel with a straight shaft and either a set of collets or a Jacobs chuck on the headstock. Then on the tailstock I need a live center. Is that correct ? Thanks everyone - looking forward to learning about this tool ! terry ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Ron Thompson" ronx~xxourcadguy.com Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:15 am ((PDT)) I am no wood turner, but I can answer part of this. You can get a 3/8ths chuck or you can use cut down drills. Reduced shank drills have a smaller mounting surface. Ron Thompson On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, USA http://www.plansandprojects.com My hobby pages are here: http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/ Visit the castinghobby FAQ: http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/ ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "chuck" chuckelsx~xxverizon.net Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:18 am ((PDT)) or you could use your new lathe to turn down the shanks of the drills larger than the chuck.... ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Ron Thompson" ronx~xxourcadguy.com Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:28 am ((PDT)) Yeah, or that. Might be a bit much for a newbe... Ron Thompson ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "robert seddon" robert5721x~xxmac.com Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:02 am ((PDT)) You can get up to a 1/2 inch jacobs chuck to fit the Taig tailstock. Check the Taig accessories page on their website or try a local tool supplier. Robert Seddon ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "t m" felderwwx~xxgreenroom.ca Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:39 am ((PDT)) Gentlemen: Thanks for the quick replies. I really appreciate it. I was completely unaware of reduced shank bits, and I love the idea of reducing the shafts myself (though not quite sure what that would involve yet). Thanks for the pointers, I will be looking for a local source for reduced shank bits shortly. I just picked the lathe up on my lunch hour. It had been described as being in "great condition". It may run great but it looked like a grizzled veteran. There is rust in spots, should I worry and try to clean it up with Evaporust or some such, or just leave it alone? The seller seemed to think drilling pen blanks was a bad idea. He said I'd want the stock supported on both ends... is that correct? thanks, terry ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:38 am ((PDT)) Did it come with a fixed steady? That would make drilling the end while fully supported an easy task. ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "t m" felderwwx~xxgreenroom.ca Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:56 am ((PDT)) Pierre, Is the following the same thing as a "fixed steady" ? http://www.taigtools.com/c1190.html "The Steady Rest is used to support long workpieces that extend out from the spindle. The support is needed so that the cutting tool does not deflect the workpiece as the carriage is traversed away from the spindle. If so, then it did NOT come with one, but it is inexpensive and locally available at my nearby Lee Valley. thanks terry ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Pierre Coueffin" pcoueffinx~xxgmail.com Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:06 pm ((PDT)) Yes, that is it. If I were planning on making up a bunch of pens from square blanks, I'd be tempted to first make a wooden disc with a square hole in it to fit the blanks, that is split in half and held together with two screws. I'd put that onto one end of the blank, and hold the other end in the 4-jaw chuck. The disc would ride in the fixed steady. The drill chuck is then held by the tailstock, and the blank is fully supported. The advantage of holding the blank in your lathe for drilling is that the bit will not tend to wander as much as on the drill press. ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:38 pm ((PDT)) One of the most foolish things Taig did was to make the gullet of the spindle too small to accept anything larger than a pencil. That forces the user to hang the workpiece out in mid-air for no good reason. Which forces them to use a steady-rest, which forces them to ... You will eventually find that (because of this shortcoming) You will need a 20" bed to drill a 7" part (even if you only want to drill it 1 inch). You will need a drill press to make pens! I turn wood on a fairly routine basis -- the optional toolrest is cheap, and it works well. There is an old saying in pen-turning circles: Always make pens with gift boxes, so they have a place to keep them! ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "luv2bsailin" luv2bsailinx~xxyahoo.com Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:50 pm ((PDT)) Or you could turn a round section near the chuck, then swap ends and put the new round section in the steady while you're turning the rest of it. Tried that recently on some long skinny Corian scraps. The only down side is having to open the steady rest to get it past the square part of the stock and then re-adjust it again. Kinda fiddly but it works. ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Paul J. Ste. Marie" taigx~xxste-marie.org Date: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:55 pm ((PDT)) I would assume drilling the blank on a drill press or even held in a vise with a hand drill would be preferable. Once it's drilled, you can slide it on a mandrel and turn it between centers. Before it's turned, perfect centering isn't critical, assuming enough extra material in the blank. Drilling it after it's turned, clamping it to drill is problematic. Besides, the travel on the tailstock chuck isn't enough to drill the 2.5" to 4" for a pen body. One simple solution would be to put the drill in the headstock chuck, clamp the blank to the carriage, using a riser block of some sort, and then moving the blank into the drill. ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Lewis Hein" lheinx~xxvcn.com Date: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:45 am ((PDT)) You will NOT need a drill press to make pens. At least, I never use one. It's no trick to drill a pen blank in the 4 jaw chuck, when you run out of travel in the tailstock, just move the tailstock forward while retracting the ram and drill in again. There is kind of a trick to making a twist drill start (or continue) on center, I hold it steady with the tip of a tool bit mounted on the cross slide of the lathe. Also, I never use a steady rest when drilling pen blanks, and I've never had a problem because of that. (I have had problems, but they were from doing it wrong.) Hope it helps Lewis Hein Pens, plans and projects online at www.heinfamilyenterprises.com/ppp ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "yawildman" hidewildedx~xxaol.com Date: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:19 am ((PDT)) To hold a pen blank I modified a 4-Jaw self centering chuck. Most blanks I've purchased are not square, this mod will hold the blank securely for center drilling square or rectangular stock. I machined 45° slots into the end of 2 jaws and mounted them in reverse. Two jaws are removed. It can still function as a regular 4-jaw chuck by simply replacing the jaws in their normal positions. See photos of the mod in photo album "Wild Ed" I use brad point bits and advance the bit like Lewis stated. I use the 1/4 inch Taig collet in the head stock to hold the pen mandrel with a Taig live-center in the tail stock Ed ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Will Schmit" anchornmx~xxyahoo.com Date: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:03 am ((PDT)) FWIW, I use the barracuda 4 jaw scroll from PENN STATES. They sell lots of replacement jaws, and a pair (of 4) could easily be modified to hold a pen blank. I'm not nuts about hanging anything beyond the face of the chuck (which would be required in this case). The rule I use is 3 diameters for brass, 2 for wood. ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Ken" kvaughanx~xxacsalaska.net Date: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:56 pm ((PDT)) Terry -- I turned a bunch of pens on a taig but have not been using that since I got a Bonnie Klein version of the Taig and then a large wood lathe as it is easier to use the Klein lathe or the wood lathe. You will need a live center and the Taig one worked well with an occasional cleaning. I had a lot of difficulty keeping the one post live center tight and steady but had good success with the two post longer tool rest. I used an ER collet to hold the mandrel (D-sized drill rod) as I had the capability. The taig collets probably would work. Collets allow you to adjust the mandrel length to be as short as practical. I used both the Taig Live Center in the 60 degree recess on commercial mandrels and with the rod removed, used it as a "mandrel saver: as the diameter of the mandrel within about 0.005 of the rod in the live center. I was able to drill most blanks with the taig using a 3/8 drill chuck with 3/8 by 24 mounts. These vary widely in cost and quality. I also have a 1/2 inch chuck with the 2/8 by 24 mount. Drilling long blanks for single piece pens about 4 1/2 inches long will be more of a challenge but works with the 3 jaw chuck. There is a Yahoo Penturning Group and IAP is another resource (www.penturner.org) You will need to work out how to square the ends of the blanks to the hole down the blank -- I worked out how to do that with the lathe one blank at a time. Use metal conditioning pad (by hand) to clean up the corrosion. I use a light gun oil or renwax on the taig to avoid corrosion. Have fun Ken in Juneau ------- Re: Lathe newbie pen turning questions Posted by: "Lewis Hein" lheinx~xxvcn.com Date: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:05 am ((PDT)) You can square up your blanks by facing the ends in the 4 jaw chuck. Lewis Hein ------- Re: Turning pens with a Sherline 4500 ? [sherline] Posted by: "Curt Givens" giveadurnx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:20 pm ((PDT)) > I'm completely new to turning, machining, and Sherline, but I'm almost about to trade for a Sherline 4500 mini-lathe. I first got interested in it by accident, thought I could make small toy parts for my kids. But the seller showed me how to turn pens and I actually enjoyed the process more than I expected, and I can see myself making pens as gifts. We didn't turn pens on this lathe, however. Is it possible to turn pens on this thing? I found a post somewhere that said to "not even bother" with the 8" lathe, which I understand the 4500 is. If it is possible, could you fine folks recommend what accessories I ought to have? < Terry, I have the larger lathe and don't have a problem turning pens and the like on it. You'll want to get a pen turning mandrel with a #1 Morse taper and get the adjustable style so you can control the length. From Sherline you'll want the wood turning tool rest set pn 3038. On some of the harder materials like Trustone and M3 metals, I've used the HSS tools to turn using the lathe tool holders. Works if the pen calls for a cylinder. That's all I can think of right now. You might want to get a small size set of turning tools. I also have a full size wood lathe and its tools are a bit clumsy. I have the pen vise from Woodcraft permanently mounted on a cheap table top drill press; the vise is great, the drill press suffers from a depth problem that on occasion makes it tough to drill all the way thru a blank. Most pen blanks are 5" before you cut, drill and trim them before turning so I can't right now see how the smaller lathe would be a problem. Have fun. Curt ------- Re: Turning pens with a Sherline 4500 ? Posted by: "Steve Wan" stewanx~xxgmail.com wanstevex~xxymail.com Date: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:54 pm ((PDT)) Hey Curt. Here's the link for a Pen Designer from Woodcraft. Hopes it helps :) http://www.woodcraft.com/projectconfigurator/projectland ing.aspx?refcode=11IN10NL&utm_source=directemail&utm_med ium=email&utm_campaign=11IN10NL Their Sept catalogue features some pen arbors for turning and drilling, go online and subscribe a free catalogue to check more pen making stuff. Steve-S'pore ------- Further Indexer Work [shopbuilttools] Posted by: "Earle Rich" erich10983x~xxaol.com Date: Sun Nov 4, 2012 12:34 pm ((PST)) http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets/72157631251149660/ The first indexer I made was way too heavy and bulky for our RV traveling. I made another that is much better suited to the job on hand drilling precise holes in the wood blanks I use to make seam rippers and pens. Sometimes it takes a time or two before I get it right. As a home shop machinist, it isn't a problem discarding an idea (and materials) once I realize that the project could be much better if I just start over. I'm sure no one else has that problem and always gets it right the first time. Earle Rich www.flickr.com/photos/mvfotog/sets http://granitegeek.org http://mvartisans.wordpress.com ------- NOTE TO FILE: There was a discussion in the Yahoo group shopbuilttools about making a fairly simple lathe for the purpose of turning pens. It obviously could be made large enough for other work too. In the file here called Projects In Metal see the conversation: Subject: Small Wood Light Lathe [shopbuilttools] Date: Sun Dec 2, 2012 ------- Another Newbie Question -- pen turning [taigtools] Posted by: "valkcapt" valkcaptx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:22 am ((PDT)) I want to use my Taig lathe with ER spindle to turn pens. However, I can't figure out what I need in terms of a mandrel, or how it is supported. I gather that the mandrel is supported by the headstock on one end, I assume by an ER collet, and by the live center at the tail stock, although I haven't figured out how that connection works. Sorry for being so dense, but I would really appreciate your opinions on this. ------- Re: Another Newbie Question -- pen turning Posted by: "David Underwood" dave.underwoodx~xxsympatico.ca Date: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:10 am ((PDT)) Have a look at http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=61283&cat=1,250,43243,43245 Whether you use one of these (item "c" or "f") or some other one, perhaps of your own making, the idea is to support it as you have described. At the tailstock end, the shaft needs to have a tapered hole, matching the taper of your live centre. If it doesn't already have this hole, you can drill one with a centre drill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CenterDrills123456.jpg And this is where I acknowledge that I have never made a pen. :-) Dave Underwood ------- Re: Another Newbie Question -- pen turning Posted by: "Ken" kvaughanx~xxacsalaska.net Date: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:44 am ((PDT)) I used to use my taig to turn pens -- then up sized to a Stubby wood lathe and use it instead. There are two ways to rig for turning pens -- Turning between Centers and with a mandrel. If you have a taig, turning between centers is pretty good because you can make your own bushings with 60 degree inds to hold dead and live centers. The Taig Live Center in the tail stock and a spare dead center shaft in the the headstock, and you are set. There are a couple of vendors who sell TBC bushings, but they are an easy machining project. Mandrel turning is pretty direct too. Mandrels are "D" sized - nominal 0.246 diameter. Many use "D-drill Rod" and use a mandrel saver in the tailstock end. The headstock should work well with a 1/4 inch ER collet and the tail stock side can use a Taig Live Center with a commercial mandrel or use a mandrel saver with the live center. The URL below should take you to Exotic Blanks who sells one that you can adapt. (Most of those on the market come with MT tails.) http://tinyurl.com/d8ny8us My experience was that turning one piece at a time was more successful on the Taig -- and Turning between Centers is one at a time anyway. Good luck -- you should be successful. Ken in Juneau ------- Pen making [sherline] Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk Date: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:38 am ((PST)) My wife would like to use our Sherline lathe to begin making pens. I have no experience of doing this, although the book she has bought shows that it can be done on a Sherline. I am going to have to find out how to do this and then show her! Are there any books/videos or other instructional information that provide a simple guide to making pens on a Sherline lathe? Best wishes, Bob Ellis ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "Reid" reidsimx~xxgmail.com rsimonus Date: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:07 am ((PST)) I suggest you go to their website. It is very good to start. clubs: http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/pen-makers-guild-14407/ https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/PenMakersGuild/info http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/cl/1/Pen-Making Store: http://www.pennstateind.com/ I am sure other people might have some suggestions. Reid ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "lawrence schneider" larry.schneider3x~xxverizon.net Date: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:00 am ((PST)) Reid, excellent recommendations. In particular, Penn State Industries (PSI) has a free DVD on pen making. Woodcrafters usually has monthly classes on pen making. Take care, Larry ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: chieftoolmakerx~xxearthlink.net glicker31 Date: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:53 am ((PST)) Hey Bob! If your wife ( name? ) gets hooked, best order another lathe :) Jerry G (Glickstein) ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:20 am ((PST)) Hi Bob, in addition to what others have suggested, I have some steps here as well: http://www.davehylands.com/Wood-Working/Making-Pens/ Dave Hylands Shuswap, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: procterx~xxihug.co.nz kwstse Date: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:02 am ((PST)) Hi Bob, I bought pen kits and a spindle from a US firm named Hall. They sell complete kits down to individual components. I wanted to use New Zealand native timbers and ordering the pen parts was simple. Had to order in sixes which is hardly a problem. Technically the only difficulty is drilling the correct diameter holes in the wood - drill available, but they suggest using a drill press while I use the lathe. Shaping the pen parts is freehand, Sherline offers the accessories. Mini turning chisels required. Greg Procter, Hukerenui, New Zealand. ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk Date: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:57 pm ((PST)) Hi Guys, Thanks for the helpful responses. Some of the suppliers you have suggested are in the USA and I am not sure that it will be economic for me to pay the postage from there to the UK, so I have started by getting some basic supplies in the UK. I have just taken delivery of a rotur Universal Deluxe Mandrel Pen Turning Kit and I intend to start by turning some slim-line pens using the 5 pen kits that came in the rotur box. I have also bought a selection of hardwood pen blanks on line off eBay and have a few more exotic spalted wood blanks on order. My little Proxxon bench saw does not have a big enough diameter blade to cut through the pen blanks, so I am planning to try cutting them to length on the lathe with a cut-off tool. Not ideal, I know, but I don’t yet have a band saw and money is tight at the moment (just bought a motor home and ordered a bespoke French diatonic accordion!), so I am going to have to make do with the equipment I have for now. It could be difficult setting up the blanks accurately in the lathe, but I hope to do so with a 4-jaw chuck at one end and a live centre at the other. I shall try this tomorrow and hope it works! Hopefully, I will be able to afford a band saw later in the year, which will make the job much easier. The drill press I have is only a small Proxxon, so I am intending to use the lathe to drill the holes through the blanks. Again the problem will be setting up the cut blanks accurately, since they will only be held at one end by the 4-jaw chuck. I didn’t like the basic twist drill bits that came with the kit, so I intend to use a 0.7mm bullet tipped bit, which should be less likely to wander while I am drilling. I don’t have any wood-turning tools or a steady rest either because, so far, I have used my lathe exclusively for making metal parts for the railway models I build. So, using equipment I already have, I plan to start by using inserted tip carbide tools in a tool post to turn down the wood, which should at least ensure accuracy. I am also doing this because my wife (she’s called Penny, Jerry) has no experience with a lathe and I think she is better starting with this method, since it requires less skill than using hand-held tools. We will move on to hand-held tools when I can afford them and when she is more familiar with how to use the lathe to turn pens. Any comments on this method of proceeding will be most welcome. I will report back on the success or otherwise of my first efforts. As you say, Jerry, if this is successful, I might eventually have to buy a new lathe because Penny may start monopolising the one we have! Best wishes, Bob Ellis ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:24 pm ((PST)) Hi Bob, If your Proxxon bench saw can cut half way through, then you can cut them in 2 passes. Using a handsaw should be fine as well. The only requirement is that the pieces be longer than the brass tubes that get epoxied in. I think one of those razor saws used for model building would work too. Drilling on the lathe should be fine. Drilling pushes into the chuck, so as long as you get started somewhere near the center of the blank you should be good. A couple of pencil marks across the diagonals will give you a good starting place, but even eyeballing it should be fine. I recommend brad point drill bits (They seem to also be called Lip and spur bits) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit#Lip_and_spur_drill_bits You get a cleaner exit hole when your drill bit comes through the other side. If you only have regular twist drills, by all means use them. Using a hand drill, electric drill, or cordless drill should also be fine. You need to be a little more careful getting your line straight, and I'd recommend clamping your blank securely. I also like to start drilling from the center towards the ends. If you do the diagonal pencil lines and get started near the same spot on both halves, then the grain will line up better between the 2 halves of the pen. I normally drill after cutting the blanks (my drill bits aren't long enough to make it through the blank otherwise). Using the lathe like a metal lathe should also work fine. It's just more difficult to do anything other than straight lines. I use a combination of full size lathe tools as well as some micro versions. Your tool rest can be made from virtually anything (including a block of wood) that you can fasten securely to the lathe or lathe base or cross-slide (I have my lathe bolted to a wooden base, so I could clamp something to the base). For pen turning, you can get away with a much more inexpensive lathe than a Sherline, although if you do go with a sherline you'll be able to swap/share stuff around. Dave Hylands Shuswap, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "lawrence schneider" larry.schneider3x~xxverizon.net Date: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:58 am ((PST)) Bob, I use my Sherline lathe to make pens. While I haven't found a book that specifically discusses using a Sherline to make pens, some of the "standards" mention using a metal lathe to make pens. In particular, the "slimline" pen is easy to make on a metal lathe because its diameter is constant throughout its length; the slimline often is the "beginner's" pen. Some personal observations - - The speed of a Sherline is different than the speed of a woodworking lathe. It's useful to have a tachometer to ensure that you are approximating the correct speed. - Sherline sells a woodturning rest so you can rest your hand on it similarly to what is done on a woodturning lathe. - As Sherline recommends, I cover the on/off switch of the motor with masking tape (slit the tape and put it over the switch). - Folks using a woodworking lathe seem to me to be relatively casual about protecting the lathe when sanding the pen, using CA glue, and various other finishers. Finishing is a major part of the process. When I get to that stage in the process, I am very careful to protect the lathe by covering the bed, head/tail stocks with clear kitchen wrap. I hope she enjoys pen making. It, like the other work that is central to this list, can be very rewarding. Sincerely, Larry ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "lawrence schneider" larry.schneider3x~xxverizon.net Date: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:25 am ((PST)) Bob, "inserted tip carbide tools in a tool post to turn down the wood" is an ideal method for the Slimline pen. Guarantees a constant diameter along the lengths of the blanks. Spalted wood can require some CA/wood dust treatment to fill holes in the blank when the pen blank is turned to size. Makes a beautiful pen. Take care, Larry p.s. I’m usually a “lurker” – one step below apprentice – on this list so I’m absolutely delighted to have a chance to try and contribute. ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "Ed Samsen" edopticianx~xxyahoo.com Date: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:39 am ((PST)) I turn acrylic pens on a U-3 so doing similar on a Sherline is a no- brainer. I use a A2Z QC toolpost and carbide tipped tools. THe stuff cuts like butter. Try some round blanks from 1woodpenpro on ebay, he is in Hawaii and has some terrific blanks including one called "Stained Glass". Try that on a Flat Top/American Classic or similar "Parker Look" pen to show off the colors and pattern better. Because my Unimat 3 has no taper in the headstock, I hold my mandrel in a collet. Ed Samsen ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:01 am ((PST)) Bob, Go to YouTube, type in the search box: Penn State Industries Woodcraft Craft Supplies USA Each has a number of videos on pen turning. I do it and have learned a lot from those videos. I'd also say that I sand and polish my pens vertically on my benchtop drill press, not on my Sherline. Not even in the same room with the Sherline gear. Works good and doesn't risk abrasive damage to the aluminum parts of the lathe and mill. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk Date: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:16 pm ((PST)) Thanks for the advice guys. I shall look through those videos tonight and tomorrow. I started work on a couple of pen blanks this afternoon. Following a suggestion here, I tried using my little Proxxon table saw to cut the blanks to length, even though the cut is not deep enough to go even half way through the blanks. By cutting on each face, there was just a small amount left in the centre which was easily parted with a piercing saw and the surface was then smoothed off with sandpaper. The first blank (cherry) cut without any problems, but when I tried the second one (olive) it burnt out the saw's motor on the second half of the blank, leaving me with a piece of junk. I will have to find another method of cutting the blanks to length, because it will be several months before I can afford a band saw. I intend to try cutting a blank on my Sherline using a cut off tool. Drilling the holes in the blanks using a bullet headed drill bit mounted in the tail stock of my lathe worked well. I shall glue the brass tubes into the blanks tomorrow and give the glue 24 hours to harden before attempting to turn my first couple of pens. Best wishes, Bob Ellis ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "Ed Samsen" edopticianx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:24 am ((PST)) Saw for pen blanks....Find an old Dremel table saw. I have one and use it for both acrylics and wood blanks. This saw cuts through the blanks like it was butter. Ed ------- Re: Pen making Posted by: "Curt Givens" giveadurnx~xxyahoo.com Date: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:37 pm ((PST)) Woodcraft sells a nice pen mandril with a #1 MT. I secure mine with a drawbar and support the other end with my live center. I also purchased the Sherline tool rest set to use with smallish lathe tools. Somewhere in the photo section there's a folder named Curts Chips with pictures of some of the pens I've done on my Sherline. Fun Curt ------- Re: Mounting pen mandrel MT1 in rotary table [sherline] Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Thu Mar 6, 2014 10:01 am ((PST)) geertdepeckerx~xxgmail.com geertdepecker wrote: > Hi, I would like to do some milling on wood while the wood blanks are still in a pen turning mandrel (usually mounted in the sherline lathe headstock). Any ideas on how to do this? Reason for this is that I'd rather not like to take the pen blanks off the mandrel as this would lead to (minute) 'out of round' errors when remounting for final finishing. < Geert, Sherline makes a #3200 Indexing Attachment that has a #1 Morse taper and a 3/4-16 male thread identical to the spindles on the Sherline lathe. You could use that. It's expensive ($200), but you can then turn the mandrel to any angle for milling. I just checked mine (which I got before they came out with the rotary table) and my pen making mandrel will fit in it lengthwise. Other than that, I think your best bet would be to put a Morse taper in an aluminum block and line up a tailstock point in another. Holes, machine screws, and tee-nuts to fasten them to the mill table. Get fancy and put the taper in a separate piece that could be rotated and locked at selected points and you could put duplicate features at various angles. Sounds like a lot of work, but you could tell yourself (and your wife?) that you made something worth $200. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Mounting pen mandrel MT1 in rotary table Posted by: geertdepeckerx~xxgmail.com geertdepecker Date: Sat Mar 8, 2014 11:51 am ((PST)) Tom, Thanks for the hint. Intention however is to CNC with the rotary table. The indexing attachment was also the first thing I looked at, but, next to the price, I guess there would be quite some work to convert that to a stepper driven system. I'll look into your second idea, maybe make a morse taper in something that I can fix to the rotary table. Thanks, Geert ------- Re: Mounting pen mandrel MT1 in rotary table Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Sun Mar 9, 2014 12:43 pm ((PDT)) Geert, That brings up a painful memory. I made just such a piece for my rotary table and use it for other things. However, I don't have CNC. The painful point, though, is that some years back I went up to our semi-local MSC distribution center to get some things and on their scratch and dent table they had a CNCed Sherline Rotary Table for $100.00. Since I already had a manual RT, I passed it up, and I've been kicking myself ever since. :( When making an external screw - internal MT-1 piece, provide a through hole from the back, tapered for a flat-head draw screw, to keep the mandrel from twisting and to eject it when your project is completed. Your screw head may have to be reduced in diameter to fit the RT hole. I'd also have a collar up from the external threads to rest on the face of the RT. Tom ------- Re: Mounting pen mandrel MT1 in rotary table Posted by: alanhyx~xxlive.com alanhaisley Date: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:35 am ((PDT)) Why not either make your own mandrel or cut the taper off of one. With a straight section at the end you can grip it in a normal chuck, which is transferrable between the lathe and the rotary table. To make one, rather than try to turn a long rod down to a uniform diameter, get some drill rod of the desired finished diameter along with a larger piece of steel. Drill and ream or bore the large piece to accept the drill rod tightly. Now glue the two together. Hold this in the chuck by the drill rod - use a bushing at the back end of the spindle to hold the rod centered - and face and cut the large piece to make it run concentric and straight with the drill rod. Reverse this again and cut a thread on the far end to complete a home made mandrel. Another possibility would be to make a straight to Morse taper bushing that you could use to hold the original mandrel in a four jaw chuck. Alan ------- Pen buffing system [sherline] Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk Date: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:40 pm ((PDT)) As a novice pen turner, I am a bit disappointed with the finish I am getting on the pens I have made so far. I have no problem filling, sealing and sanding to a fine finish, but I cannot get a high enough gloss using my present system (Mylands Friction Polish followed by Hut PPP High Gloss stick wax) and the finish soon dulls down in use. Having read a couple of books and watched some videos on the subject, I think I might do better using a CA finish and buffing it with jewellers rouge, but I have two questions before embarking on this approach. The first concerns the thickness of the CA. Is it better to use thin or medium CA? The second concerns the buffing rig. Barry Gross has produced what looks like a neat pen buffing kit for a small lathe that is available from Penn State Industries among others, but it has a #2 morse taper. Is there any way of adapting this to fit a Sherline lathe or is there any equivalent system available with a #1 morse taper? Best wishes, Bob Ellis ------- Re: Pen buffing system Posted by: jlkiefferx~xxcharter.net n2562001 Date: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:31 pm ((PDT)) Bob, I am not into pen turning, however turning a mandrel of your own design based on your needs is a simple process on a Sherline. It can be driven by placing on centers, three jaw chuck or collets. In addition, if based on one of Sherline's #1 arbors, it can also be driven in that manner also. Most tooling and accessories from Penn State are made in China or india of soft materials. If so on this product by checking before purchase, you could simply put the #2 arbor on centers and turn a straight shank on it to be placed in your three jaw chuck or collets. Jerry Kieffer ------- Re: Pen buffing system Posted by: "Pat B" patbutlerx~xxcomcast.net Date: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:34 pm ((PDT)) I use CA all the time for rocket construction and would definitely recommend thin CA. The medium would be a problem right away by not laying down flat. I think you’ll like the surface that you can get from thin CA. I recall seeing a few videos on YouTube at one time that showed a guy polishing pens with a CA finish. Definitely use safety glasses as the thin CA is more likely to splash up towards your eyes when using a lathe. Pat ------- Re: Pen buffing system Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk Date: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:00 am ((PDT)) Thanks, Jerry, for the advice about turning down the #2 arbor either to a #1 arbor or to a straight shank that can be held in a chuck or collet. I’ll contact Penn State Industries about the composition of their arbor and probably order the Barry Gross buffing system from them. Thanks also to Pat for the advice about the thin CA. I tried both thin and thick CA last night on some olivewood pen blanks and the thin seemed easy to apply. I was less successful with the thicker CA, managing to get the paper towel and some stray dog hairs stuck to the blank and then having to turn it down a bit to undo the damage. Best wishes, Bob Ellis ------- Pen buffing system Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net Date: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:59 am ((PDT)) Bob, I've turned some pens. If you want a really smooth gloss finish, what I have done is drill some holes in a short piece of wall stud, what we in the U.S. build house walls out of - soft wood, 2" X 4" cross section. The holes are to fit ?" dowels. Wrap the dowels with masking tape, enough to retain the brass tubes in the turned pen pieces. Put the pieces on the dowels, spray them with a hardware store spray can of clear gloss lacquer, and stand then up in the wood block to dry. Spray additional coats until the gloss is what you want. Read the directions: don't wait too long between coats. Lacquer is impervious to water, so it should provide a long life. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Pen Turning [sherline] Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk bobthemusicalcrook Date: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:53 am ((PST)) Does anybody here (apart from me) use a Sherline lathe for pen turning? If so, I would be interested to hear how you overcome some of its limitations. For instance, has anybody found a source for a mandrel saver with a #0 Morse taper? Has anybody found or devised a buffing system that can be used on a Sherline? Do you use a mandrel or turn between centres? Any useful tips you would like to share? Best wishes, Bob Ellis ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: tempx~xxschraiber.com gregschraiber Date: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:49 am ((PST)) I haven't looked to verify if they have an #0 Morse taper but woodcraft.com has a huge selection of pen kit's and pen turning tools, including mandrels. Cheers, Greg ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk bobthemusicalcrook Date: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:35 am ((PST)) Thanks for the suggestion, Greg. I had a look for a mandrel saver at Woodcraft but couldn’t find one. Best wishes, Bob ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.com dhylands_99 Date: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:07 am ((PST)) Hi Bob, I've made a few pens. You can see some pictures and info about my setup here: http://davehylands.com/Wood-Working/Pen-Gallery/ http://davehylands.com/Wood-Working/Making-Pens/ I've never used a mandrel saver (had to do a google search to figure out what it was). I've never had any problems with my mandrel bending and I don't typically put alot of force on it from the tailstock end (just enough to engage the center). It looks like the type of thing you could make. Design it so that it fits over the end of a live center. Or perhaps take a Morse #0 blank and adapt it: http://www.sherline.com/3051pg.htm I do all of my buffing while the pieces are still mounted on the mandrel (which is essentially betweeen centers). Dave Hylands Shuswap, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Lawrence Schneider" larry.schneider3x~xxverizon.net Date: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:26 pm ((PST)) I too use my Sherline for turning pens. I turn them on a mandrel. Although I've looked, I haven't found a #0 taper mandrel saver. I buff the pens by holding the cloth in my hands while the lathe turns the pen. Of course I've already covered much of the lathe to protect it while going through the multiple sanding/coating processes so it's still protected. Larry ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Mike Bauers" mwbauers55x~xxwi.rr.com mwbauers Date: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:42 pm ((PST)) Bob, What about this one, it has a #1 Morse taper. Meant to go into your headstock. http://www.rockler.com/pro-pen-turning-mandrel-morse-taper? "The essential tool for pen turning on a lathe! This precision-machined steel bar is held in the lathe to ensure accurate pen turning when using a live center. No drill chuck is required - the mandrel is held directly in the morse taper of your lathe! The brass compression fitting allows you to turn shorter length blank without having to use a wood spacer. Simply slide the fitting onto the shaft and tighten it at the correct location for your blank." Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk bobthemusicalcrook Date: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:29 pm ((PST)) Thanks for the suggestion, Mike, but I already have a couple of mandrels that fit into the headstock with, as you say, a #1 Morse taper. The mandrel saver is a type of live centre with a hollow centre that fits in the tailstock. It is designed to prevent the mandrel from bending by bearing on the locking nut rather than the dimple in the end of the mandrel, so it needs to be #0 Morse taper. Mandrel savers have been produced by various suppliers with #1, #2 and #3 Morse tapers, but it doesn’t appear that anybody has produced one with a #0 taper, so I shall either have to manage without or, as Dave Hylands has suggested, make something myself to fit over the live centre. Best wishes, Bob Ellis ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Mike Bauers" mwbauers55x~xxwi.rr.com mwbauers Date: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:06 pm ((PST)) I understand. While I was looking about, I located a 0-MT live center I intend to make use of. Sort of reversing the set-up you seem to prefer. So I would be using the 1-MT mandrel with the 0-MT live center. http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2714 I’ve made seating cups that would socket the rod of that mandrel and still run on the end-center. In this case I’d use that between the live center and the mandrel rod. The like could be turned to work with the nut surface if you prefer. The priority is to make good use of the lathe end-center, or live-center in this case. I’ve done this with model railroad axled wheel sets. In that case, I was able to use a dead center and a brass adapter socket for the axle. I’ve been meaning to get a live center, but didn’t absolutely need one for the chores I was running. I think I’ll finally get one. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk bobthemusicalcrook Date: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:48 pm ((PST)) Thanks for your comment, Lawrence. It sounds as though you do something similar to me. I get a good, smooth shiny finish, but I wonder whether it could be improved by using a buffing wheel. However, there is not sufficient clearance above the bed to fit any of the buffing systems I have seen to a Sherline lathe. I have been turning pens on my lathe for about two years now and have been selling them to raise money for a local charity for over a year. I have made almost 200 pens so far. In summary my method is this. Cut the blanks on a band saw or a piercing saw; drill the centres with a pillar drill; glue in the tubes using epoxy resin; trim the ends to 90° either with a barrel trimmer or a disc sander; mount the blanks on a pen mandrel; turn them roughly to shape using hand tools; turn them down to size and shape using a carbide cutting tool and various grades of abranet; add a finish of CA glue polished through the grades of micromesh up to 12000 grit and then apply a final coat of Hut Plastic Polish or Farécla. Final assembly is done using a pen assembly tool. This system has evolved as a result of making compromises imposed by the small size of the Sherline lathe. I am interested to hear about any other ways in which people have adapted to the limitations of the Sherline. Don’t get me wrong: I am not criticising the Sherline, which is a great little lathe, but it was not designed for pen-turning. Best wishes, Bob Ellis ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "lawrence schneider" larry.schneider3x~xxverizon.net Date: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:38 am ((PST)) Bob, I’ve spent some time looking for a mandrel saver and haven’t found one. If you do, please let me know where to get it. Thank you, Larry ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "lawrence schneider" larry.schneider3x~xxverizon.net Date: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:06 am ((PST)) Bob, Your method is similar to mine. When sanding, using multiple coats of CA, hand buffing, etc. I cover the lathe bed, head and tail stocks with a plastic sheet, kind of like the stuff you may use in the kitchen. I haven’t made as many pens as you have. Out of curiosity, what do you, or others on the list, think is the best source for quality fittings, nibs, etc. Take care, Larry ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Ed Samsen" edopticianx~xxyahoo.com edoptician Date: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:46 am ((PST)) I don't use a Sherline lathe for pen turning,I use a Unimat 3. My lathe does not have a morse taper on the spindle. I use a standard pen mandrel without the morse tap fitting in an appropriately sized collet. I use a live center in the tailstock. For shorter pens, I use an extra slimline bushing at each end to allow for tool clearance and slide the extra length of the mandrel through the hollow spindle. Ed Samsen Carlsbad, CA ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:03 pm ((PST)) Bob, I've done some pen turning. I can see the need for a Mandrel saver. It could be called a "live center saver," because the dimpled end of the pen turning mandrel (at least the one I have) does not have the bore at the end of the cone that you get when cutting that feature with a center drill. Not having that bore can result in a shattered point on your live center if you over-tighten the tailstock ram. How do I know? I shattered the tip on my first live center. Rather than have Sherline repair it, I bought a new one. Then I used a standard Sherline tommy bar through the hole in the small end of the live center taper's shell to drive out the point. After that I began making a number of point shapes for that live center. (I use a home made 1/2" collet in making them, but that's another story.) But with interchangeable tips on the live center, it's easy to make a mandrel saver tip, basically an accurate 1/2" cylinder with an accurate hole that stops just short of going all the way through. The accurate cylinder is not that difficult, but note the 'accurate hole'. I make my own pen turning bushings as well; and guess what, the hole through the centers of same for the mandrel shaft are not 1/4". To be accurate, holes in bushings (and that mandrel saver) should be .248" diameter. To get that >accurate< hole, drill it with a 'D' or a 'C' drill and then ream it with a .248" Dowel Pin Reamer. Mine is Granger P/N 13H699. On to finishing: I never sand anywhere near my Sherline machinery. Instead, I machined a piece for my ancient Delta 1/2" drill press that has a 1/2" shank, then a knurled ring and then a copy of the Sherline 3/4" - 16 and MT-1 nose. The pen mandrel with work in progress is moved directly to the drill press and the live center is put in a MT-0 taper hole I cut in a Baltic Birch plywood board which is clamped to the drill press table. The pen blank(s) to be finished are then vertical, the dust falls directly down, everything is easy to clean up, easy to inspect, and easy to polish. I've been playing around with lacquers and pad applied varnish finishes. The problem there is applying a no drip/slub coat. Which is the next tool I have on my list to build: The first kitchen range we got for our home (45 years ago) was a semi-deluxe unit. It had a rotisserie in the oven. That stove is long gone, but before selling it for scrap, I removed that rotisserie motor. I'm going to screw it to a plywood stand, put a MT-1 female taper on the end of the shaft, and a MT-0 hole in a sliding mount for the live center. Then I will be able to let a set of blanks dry all night if necessary without any irregular finish problems. After that, the next pen turning tool DIY project will be a mandrel with an offset to cut arc-sided triangular cross-section pen pieces. Did I say I have a lathe-duplicator accessory? Doesn't work overly well. I have several ideas to make a better one. Currently just searching for that "round-tuit." Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:38 pm ((PST)) "lawrence schneider" larry.schneider3x~xxverizon.net wrote: > Out of curiosity, what do you, or others on the list, think is the best > source for quality fittings, nibs, etc. Larry, You ask about sources, I have one recommendation, but not directly about pen fittings. My recommendation is on back scratchers, but you can extend it to pens and other turning kits. With the back scratchers there are two "kits" on the market. The one comes from India and the other comes from China. The Indian one has just a small turned finial for the one end and receptacle with a screw in "hand" for the back scratching. The Chinese one has a brass cap to go on the end of the handle, which can be equipped with a cord through a hole, plus a similar looking hand to do the back scratching. The pieces described look to be brass, which is the case with the Indian item, but the Chinese kit is base metal with a brass colored flash finish. To check whether a back scratcher kit is brass, take a file to the threaded end of the hand. If it's good Indian brass, you can heat the hand and curl the fingers in so they will actually give a satisfying scratch. Then polish and spray again with clear lacquer. Try that with the Chinese kit and you will have a blob of melted white metal. And even if you don't try that, the "brass" coating on the Chinese parts will wear through before you would guess. Penn State Industries in Philadelphia used to carry the Indian back scratcher kits, but in their latest catalog I see that they now have the Chinese version. I don't know where to get the Indian pieces at this point, but this is a word to the wise. Regards, Tom Bank ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk bobthemusicalcrook Date: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:23 am ((PST)) I don't have any experience of backscratchers, but I know that most pen kits are made in China or Taiwan. The Chinese ones tend to have inferior mechanisms and a thin coating that rubs off very easily. The Taiwanese kits tends to be better in both respects, so I always check where the kit was made before buying. There are two interesting new ventures taking place at the moment, where Beaufort Inks and Taylors of Mirfield are both in the process of producing kits from components made entirely in the UK. In particular, the Mistral range from Beaufort Inks, looks very interesting. There will be matching fountain pen, rollerball, ballpoint and propelling pencil kits, all produced to a high quality. Although not available yet, they will be within a few weeks and pictures and descriptions of the prototypes suggest that the quality will be superior to the Taiwanese and far superior to the Chinese offerings. There is no information about price yet. It is likely to be higher than the price of equivalent Taiwanese kits, but I would rather pay more for a better product. This reads a bit like an advert, so I had better make it clear that I have no connection with either company other than as a customer. Best wishes, Bob ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk bobthemusicalcrook Date: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:09 am ((PST)) Hi Tom, Some very interesting points there. With regard to the pen bushings, different mandrel manufacturers make their mandrels with slightly different diameters. For instance, I have an Axminster mandrel and a Planet mandrel and the bushes for them are not interchangeable. When I use a new kit, I have to find which mandrel is the best fit for the bushes. For the Roman Harvest fountain pen that is on the lathe as I write, the Planet fits perfectly, whereas they were a sloppy fit on the Axminster. The bushes for the Gearshift ballpoint I have just finished were a sloppy fit on both mandrels, so I turned it between centres. Some bushes are inaccurate, so I turn my own. I haven't had a live centre fail on me as you have, probably because I am careful not to overtighten them, but your suggestion of making your own mandrel saver sounds interesting. I haven't quite got my head round what is involved and haven't the time to look into it now because I have an urgent order for pens to complete, but I'll come back to that when I have a little more time. One area of pen-turning with which I am fairly satisfied is my finishing. I cover the lathe with cling film while sanding with Abranet down to 400 grit. If any filling is necessary, I do that and then use sanding sealer (if the blank is wood) before sanding again, this time down to 600 grit. I then apply 6 - 8 coats of thin CA glue with the lathe turning slowly and using CA accelerator between each coat, sand with Micromesh 3200 along the grain with the lathe stationary until all the shine has been removed and then continue through each grade of Micromesh up to 12000, first with the lathe turning and then along the grain with it stationary to remove the turning scratches. This polishes to a glassy finish, but I then give it a final protective coat of Hut Plastic Polish and polish it to a mirror finish, although I am currently experimenting to see whether I can get an even better finish using Farécla 300 and 500. I would like to be able to buff the finish with a buffing wheel, but I can't find one that will fit on a Sherline lathe. Best wishes, Bob ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Bob Ellis" bobx~xxbpellis.idps.co.uk bobthemusicalcrook Date: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:42 am ((PST)) Larry, Further to my hurried response yesterday, my first port of call for "quality fittings, nibs, etc." is Beaufort Inks, who are at Spean Bridge in Scotland, but have a quick and efficient postal service worldwide. Their website is at http://www.beaufortink.co.uk/index.html Anything I can't find there, I look for at Pen Crafts: http://pencrafts.co.uk/store/index.php?route=common/home Pen State Industries and Exotic Blanks, both in the USA, are also useful sources of pen parts. Best wishes, Bob ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "lawrence schneider" larry.schneider3x~xxverizon.net Date: Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:32 am ((PST)) Bob, Thanks for your follow up. Also, I thought your last posting on your finishing process was very instructive and helpful. I'm going to try it. Thanks again, Larry ------- Re: Pen Turning Posted by: "Tom & Judy Bank" trbank1x~xxverizon.net eimcr28 Date: Mon Feb 1, 2016 1:00 pm ((PST)) Bob Ellis, There's a lot of info in your post. But first off, you say you want to buff the finish. I just treated myself to a Foredom 2" Angle Grinder attachment for Christmas which is used with Foredom's #30 handpiece. I haven't tried it for anything yet, but I have fitted it with some 2" cotton cloth buff wheels, using (I think) a 4mm flat/socket head by 25mm screw and both the long and short angle grinder hubs, stacked. It might do the trick for you. I'd also like to find a 2" "lambs wool buff" for my angle grinder. Not likely! You say you use a sanding sealer and CA glue in finishing pens. What brands of sealer and CA do you use? And do you use some sort of applicator for the CA glue or just dribble it on the blank? Does the Hut Polish provide sufficient protection to the CA glue by itself and would the Farécla products do the same? I'd be interested in a report on your experience with the Farécla products. I looked up one of their videos on YouTube but I couldn't tell what was under the polish. I've used the standard rubbing shellac and I've tried a spray spar varnish. I've also been considering a General Finishes TopCoat, which I used on a table top, but I haven't tried it yet. I have some interesting wood that I have been playing around with for pens. I had to replace a table top that a refinisher destroyed, rather than repairing (hinge screw holes that came through the top, etc.). In figuring out the details of how to do the job, I found out that the original table was made of Red Walnut. If you never heard of that, it's because there was just one stand of the trees in Northwestern Michigan. After our Civil War, many veterans had a hard time finding work and a number of them went to Michigan to became loggers and lumbermen, clear cutting mile after mile of trees. In the process, by 1880 they had totally exterminated the Red Walnut, which was prized by the furniture industry that was springing up in the Grand Rapids area; sort of what's going on now with the large animals in Africa. Anyway, I was able to find boards from a really huge walnut tree and I have an exceptional wood stainer and finisher here locally that (artificially) matched the new walnut top to the rest of the antique table. But the project has left me with a bunch of antique 7/8" thick Red Walnut that I've been turning into pens and such. Regards, Tom Bank ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is just one of some 80 files about machining and metalworking and useful workshop subjects that can be read at: http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------