This file has user tips on designing and outfitting a home workshop, whether for metalworking or woodworking or other hobbies. The metalworker's workshop will often have wooden (or at least part wood) benches and shelves and storage bins, etc. See the Adhesives text file for many wood, and metal, bonding problems and solutions. It is very likely that metalworkers also do some, if not a lot of, woodworking. Many workshop accessories are applicable to both. If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by using your browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result of a web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home page Machining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ SAFETY WARNING BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process is safe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any other web site or was published in a magazine or book or video. Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipment is inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate. Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove loose clothing -- before operating any machine. Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safety instructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool or product. If you do not have those most recent official instructions, acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using their product. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news or user group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructions may not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information and operating instructions may also be available through a local club, a local professional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate government agency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking the next step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about any procedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, and employ certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws or codes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also be contracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there. (c) Copyright 2003 - 2008 Machining and Metalworking at Home The form of the collected work in this text file (including editing, additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to be reproduced by any means, including electronic, without written permission except for strictly personal use. ========================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 15:00:07 -0000 From: steambikex~xxhotmail.com Subject: work light for mill I am working on a work light for the mill. I have a small gooseneck light that sets on my bench, but is always in the way or shining in my eyes or not where it shines on my work. I picked up a small Mini Mag flashlight at a garage sale. I bought a universal electric adapter at Wally World ( $10) that plugs into 110 outlet and changes to a variety of DC voltage. I am going to cut the flash light off so there is just enough to grip with a ball joint arm and wire to the adapter. I am going to attach the ball arm to the mill head T slot. The Mag lights have an adjustable beam that changes from spot to flood. I hope this will work as good as I am anticipating. Maybe this will spark a few ideas. I'll let you all know how it works. Paul B. -------- Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:42:02 -0500 From: "Randy" Subject: Re: Re: broken ways [actually Bed Top Construction] From: "S or J" To: Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 7:04 PM Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: broken ways [actually Bed Top Construction] > Randy has come up with a excellent plan for a bench top that should > provide a stable and vibration absorbing solution. His idea can be > improved a tiny bit by following an old lamination principle. > Any built up flat surface through laminations or made > from materials that breathe will have maximum stability > if the top and bottom surfaces are treated identically. > In this case, a tin layer on the top surface (which is there > to stop stray oil) will also make the top surface humidity > proof and should be matched by tin or a similarly effective > vapour-proof coating on the bottom surface. > Steve in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada > > From: "Randy Pedersen" > >The tops will be made from old yellow pine 2x4's that have been take > >from old torn down houses (they are harder than all get out and have > >had over 40 years to cure and twist)laid side by side, they will be > >trimmed down to 2 1/2" then pre drilled along their length then they > >will be glued together and then bolted together with 1/2" all thread > >running completly through them. Then the top will be covered with tin > >to stop any oil from soaking into the wood. Using this old wood > >should help if not stop the problem of changing with the humidity > >quite as bad thereby keeping you lathe level longer (you should level > >your lathe a few times a year if you want to keep it straight and > >cutting true)and by laminating and making it 2 1/2" thick, stop the > >strange vibrations that can transmit to your work. Steve: thanks for the tip I never thought of covering the bottom side. I was going to make the legs from 4x4's like the atlas bulletin said but I think I will use some thick wall angle. This way I won't have to worry about the weather affecting my main leveling point, the bench! Randy ------- Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:00:58 -0400 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: mini vise (and Bill's Workshop) Bill wrote: >I built a small vise a couple of years ago out of some ugly scrapyard >finds. Here is a link to the picture of it: >http://www.geocities.com/wjw2000athotmaildotcom/vise_disassem.jpg Bill. Visited your picture of the vise. Fine work. Then chopped off the end of the address to get to your home page at http://www.geocities.com/wjw2000athotmaildotcom/ You have a wonderful site and sense of humour. Besides all the great stuff you have made and or improved, it is good to know that others don't have much in the way of horizontal surfaces that aren't piled high with good stuff, more good stuff, and plain old junk. I've stopped adding more workbenches because they just become more instant storage shelves. One old fellow came up with an idea in his workshop that is worth sharing with fellow procrastinators. There is no way that most of us will ever clean up and put all the tools away at the end of a session. Rather than feel guilty about it, turn that procrastination into your standard procedure. Then start each new session by putting everything away you will not need today, and clean up last day's swarf. During this period of no-brainer cleaning, run over the procedures in your mind that you are going to do today. Chances are good that this period of cleaning and meditation will catch some errors in advance and make for a more organized, productive session than just going into the shop and diving right in. Thanks for inviting us into your shop. Steve ------- Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 08:17:38 -0000 From: J.C.Beechx~xxshu.ac.uk Subject: Re: mini vise (and Bill's Workshop) Very good advice, I will give it a go as there is never enough time to clean up at the end of a session and my tea is usually very near the dog by the time I get to the table... Joules ------- Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:23:33 -0000 From: wjw2000x~xxhotmail.com Subject: Re: mini vise (and Bill's Workshop) --- In taigtools, "S or J" wrote: >...it is good to know that others don't have much in the way of horizontal > surfaces that aren't piled high with good stuff, more good stuff, > and plain old junk. I've stopped adding more workbenches because they just > become more instant storage shelves. Steve I had the opportunity to work for a few months in England. While there, I sought out a couple of "model engineers" that were busily making steam locomotives during their lunch break. I was able to see a couple of their shops. Very interesting. Here in North America, we tend to buy large machines and if a special job come along, we just buy another machine. I was suprised to see how productive these folks are with such limited equipment. This one fellow had a 10'x12' shed behind his garage that was just crammed with stuff. he had at least two large work benches (he may have had more, but I could only see two). He had a small milling machine, a drill press, and a medium size South Bend Lathe (WWII army surplus, I was told). Well, as you could imagine, every horizontal surface was covered with projects, tools, toys, whatever. He had an ingenious solution: He attached short sections of 2x2" to a couple 12"x12" pieces of plywood. These he would put in his bench vise, gripping the 2x2. He had two benches, as I said before, two vices, and therefore, had at least two square feet of horizontal work space! ------- Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:04:31 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Re: mini vise (and Bill's Workshop) I use the vise solution another way. Bench shears, punches, formers, etc, that can be lifted by one man (me) are fastened to lengths of aluminum extrusion (I could have used 2x6, but I have lots of short sections of this extrusion lying around). When I need to use the tool I just put it in one of my two main bench vises. Make sure the vise is solidly bolted to the bench! I find that having a small shop (mine is 13x17, with additional space in the carport for things that can rust a little) isn't too much of a problem, as long as you do keep things shipshape. I imagine that my shop is in a submarine and that I have to keep things in order. Lots of drawer units, shelves, etc, everything in it's own place, and the shop cleaned up daily. Boxes must be labelled with a marker, so you can see what they have without looking into them. That said I just bought 2 horizontal mills and a surface grinder yesterday at auction and I need more space! Anyone want to buy a Nichols Horizontal mill? See our web pages http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:15:11 +0000 From: Jon Elson Subject: Re: chip and coolant cleanup tips for basement shop got_milk_ehx~xxyahoo.com wrote: > Does anyone have some great tips or ideas on how to keep a > basement shop clean and tidy with chips and coolant flying around? > Any ideas or advice would be appreciated! I use a Plexiglas shield that catches most of the flying stuff, and also some scrap pieces of Plexi that can be stuffed in the table slots to fit around odd-shaped workpieces to contain the swarf. I shovel the wet chips into a funnel lined with a paper towel to drain off the coolant. This sits in a small plastic container that holds the funnel upright and collects the coolant. I have a couple of pieces of aluminum sheet cut to fit the t-slots that works well to scoop up the chips. For general area cleaning, a big shop-vac and ear protectors are just the thing. I can get the shop pretty clean in a hurry with that. It is also very good for getting chips out of all the little nooks and crannies that they settle into. Jon ------- Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:43:40 -0400 From: Richard Parker Subject: Re: chip and coolant cleanup tips for basement shop > Does anyone have some great tips or ideas on how to keep a > basement shop clean and tidy with chips and coolant flying around? > Any ideas or advice would be appreciated! When my shop was located in a basement, I used pretty much the same methods that I always did. For the machinery, I use a 2" wide paintbrush to sweep the chips onto the floor. Then, use a good corn broom to sweep the chips into a dustpan, and put them in the trash. I follow this by using kerosene on the paintbrush to clean the cutting oil and smaller chips off of the machinery, and then wipe the machines down with rags. Finally, leave a light coat of Vactra (or suitable way oil) on the ways and exposed bright metal. Though it's probably common knowledge, you should NEVER clean your lathe or surface grinder with an air hose. On the mill, shaper, or drill press you can get away with this, as abrasives are rarely used on these. Also, I find the paintbrush and broom a lot easier to work with than a cumbersome shop vac and its associated hoses and electrical cord. Once you get into the habit of cleaning your shop meticulously after each use, you'll develop a "rhythm" for doing it that will become very easy to repeat. If you make it a habit to stop work about an hour before you're too tired to do any more and give the shop a good thorough cleaning, it will stay neat. It will also be a joy to enter the next time you have work to do, and your improved attitude will be reflected in the quality of your work. Have a place for everything, and put everything in it's place. Keeping everything clean, properly maintained, and organized will make you a better mechanic. Best, Rich ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:29:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Shop Layout First the question, then the song 'n dance: Anyone mind describing the layout of their shop? I'm looking for ideas. Now the song 'n dance: Once upon a time, there was a wood pile that rested against one wall of my shop. (Yeah, I know... I know...) Of course it wound up rotting out one wall of my shop. I've since moved the wood pile, and Saturday I removed the wall and replaced it with new, unrotted wood. It's sealed, and seems to be working out great. Right now my shop is an absolute disaster. Everything's piled up (CAREFULLY) against one wall, and the other half the shop looks like a construction site. I've got a couple of more plans I want to execute before things go back to "normal": * I'm re-wiring so I can get 220V power into the shed. Already got all the supplies (I've had them for more than a year). Just a matter of doing it. This will be a one evening job, probably this week. * I'm insulating and putting up 1/4" plywood coverings on my 2x4 frame walls (I'm in a shed). I've got an old window AC unit that's no longer in use, so it's going to give me climate control (YAY)! * In the process I'm having to empty my shed (mostly for insulating and painting), so only those things I want in my shop get back into my shop. While I'm doing all this, I'd like to address some shortcomings in my current shop setup: * It's hard to clean * Chips get into EVERYTHING * There's not much room / my benches are too big for the tools sitting on them * My tables aren't that rigid, so sawing on my vise is a little frustrating (I never did get around to bolting them to the walls, something I swear I'll take care of this time!) (Ain't 20/20 hindsight wonderful?) * The lighting isn't great * All the tables have been situated for standing-height. After trying a 27" tall lathe table, I find I *really* like sitting down when I'm working. Just gotta get an apron. * My shop's disorganized!! No work flow! I've got some ideas for how to address all of these, but before getting out the screw gun and lumber, I wouldn't mind a little input. One other thing I'm looking for in Le Shop Nuveau: I *AM DETERMINED* to get off my zud and write that manual on how to assemble and tram up the mill. This and other projects I'd like to do have convinced me that I need to set up a "studio corner". Ideally it would be a bench where I could put a given tool or machine, with a completely uncluttered background, easily controlled light sources, and enough room in front of it to set up a tripod. It doesn't need to be a permanent fixture, but it shouldn't be that arduous to set up, either. Any ideas? I'm still in the sketching phase, so I figure this is the time to ask. Thanks, Tom ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:57:46 +0100 From: Tony Jeffree Subject: Re: Shop Layout At 09:29 22/10/2001 -0500, you wrote: > All the tables have been situated for standing-height. After trying a > 27" tall lathe table, I find I *really* like sitting down when I'm > working. Just gotta get an apron. Hmmm. After I failed t tighten up a chuck & had it spin off in my direction, I have decided that I *really* like standing up when I'm working. That way, its *so* much easier to get outa the way of the large piece of spinning metal that is heading for you with a malicious look in its eyes. Regards, Tony ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:16:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Shop Layout OUCH! Dang it, Tony, now you have me totally re-thinking my whole approach;) I do have another reason for wanting sit-down benches. I'm in one of those barn-like shed buildings. That geometry means there's only four feet worth of vertical wall space on two of the walls. If you have a 36" bench up against one of these walls, you have very little vertical wall space left before you get first section of roof slanting in on you. This means keeping toolboxes on benchtops is tough at best. And something like a drill press winds up sticking out about three feet from the wall to leave enough space to lift the cover and change the drive belt. Drawer cabinets like you keep nuts and bolts in just don't work on those two walls. Dropping everything to 27" high means there's over 20" of space of vertical wall above each bench. This lets me fit my toolbox, and any of my tools, on top of any bench. But the concern about having a chuck spinning off at your chest while you're sitting in a chair really is a concern. I'm all for comfort while I'm in my shop, but being comfortable and dead (or really seriously injured) doesn't count for much in my book... Tom ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:56:05 -0700 From: "David Goodfellow" Subject: Re: Shop Layout Pardon the interruption, but you struck a nerve. During my first few days with a Taig lathe I shut down with the 4-jaw spinning at top speed. The chuck spun off, grabbed me at the belt, crawled up my stomache and chest and gave me a good crack in the chin. If I had been sitting down at the time, the chuck would have first hit me in the face, with little of its energy expended. As it was, it lost a lot crawling up my bod. Still have a small scar on my chin, though. Dave Goodfellow Northridge, CA ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:08:41 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Shop Layout Benches should be 32-36" high, and between 18" and 24" deep. Plan on storage under the benches. Look at used office furniture for cardfiles and telephone tables with ball bearing drawers. Lag screw 2x6 to the wall for bench support. Make risers above benches for toolboxes. I am now officially out of space in my shop. I have a center island of a table with the Atlas 10", the shaper against that, and now a new table that will hold my new benchmaster mill. Benches all around the periphery except for the drill press and the rollaway. I should take some new pictures. See our web pages http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:01:29 -0700 From: "Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein" Subject: Re: Shop Layout Here's an "outside the box" thought. Could you build a low foundation wall that would raise your shed up a few feet? That would give you more space pretty cheap. I know what you mean about budget, I basically need a $20,000 shop right now, and I really only have about 11 cents saved up. ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:14:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Shop Layout On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Nicholas Carter and Felice Luftschein wrote: > Here's an "outside the box" thought. Could you build a low foundation > wall that would raise your shed up a few feet? That would give you > more space pretty cheap. Now that I've seen how it's constructed, not really. Not without needing to completely replace the floor. A month ago I would've been gung-ho to do just that. But now that I've seen what the previous owner did under there, I kinda want to keep it. When I picked up that Lewis shaper a while back, I thought I'd need a concrete floor in my shop to support it. Turns out the floor is 3/4" plywood sitting on top of pressure treated 2x4's spaced every 8" or so, which are sitting on top of 4x6 beams, which are sitting on top of these things that look like railroad ties, which are sitting on top of the rock piers that support the thing (it's on the side of a pretty steep hill, say 25-30% grade.) The floor is massive. I checked the placement of my shaper table where I want it to go, and with the addition of a slightly wider foot on the legs, it'll be right on top of the floor beams. To replace that with concrete, on that hillside, would be a mess. > I know what you mean about budget, I basically need a $20,000 shop > right now, and I really only have about 11 cents saved up. DANG! And I thought *I* was the only one! Speaking of a $20,000 shop, I had lunch with my old mentor today. They replaced two of the mills in their shop with big Lagun mills. With the power draw bars, the things are almost ten feet tall. Each one ran about $20,000. Absolutely nuts. Irony of ironies, he was working on this tiny, intricate part, maybe 1/2"x3" at most. It would've looked small on my Taig. On his big Lagun the thing almost disappeared entirely! But yeah, I could deal with a $20,000 shop... Oooh, how I could spend $20k. Tom ------- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:40:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Shop Layout >>If I had been sitting down at the time, >>the chuck would have first hit me in the face, with little of its energy >>expended. As it was, it lost a lot crawling up my bod. Still have a >>small scar on my chin, though. Ugh. Very nasty! Man, you said it! > Actually, this is one of the (many) advantages of variable speed > drives - I tend to slow the lathe down by using the speed control > rather than switching off, so there is less of a shock transmitted > through the belt & therefore less tendency for the chuck to unwind. > But even so, its important to maintain the ability to rapidly leave > the scene & let the dust settle if things start to get bad. This is > also a good reason to keep spectators at a distance - not for their > safety, but for yours! Back when my shop was in one piece, I had the tools arranged so that people working at different tools were out of each tool's line of fire. The lathe was positioned so someone standing at the mill isn't in line with the chuck, etc. I don't have enough room in my shop to come up with a good solution for the bench grinder, in terms of safety OR abrasive dust, so whenever it's in use, the thing is positioned outside the door, and all work pretty much stops 'till it's turned off. I also position it so an exploding wheel doesn't blow back into the shop. Totally off subject, at one point I was having a discussion with a skydiving friend of mine, about the relative dangers of skydiving and machining. She insists skydiving is more dangerous (I agree), but it does make you wonder... Ever think ESPN2 will dedicate an hour to competitive machining? "Look at that! He's regrinding his lathe tool in the middle of the production run!" "That's right, Bob! Oh! Oh no! Looks like he was grinding on the side of the wheel, and caused it to fracture!" "You said it, Jim! That's bound to leave a mark." "And that'll put him dead last in the rankings!" "That's right, Jim. He's out of the running on this one." (Understand... I'm saying this with tongue firmly planted in cheek. I hope no one EVER rushes in the shop. That's a great way to get majorly maimed or killed. But having watched some of the events in the X-Games on ESPN2, you have to wonder...) Tom ------- Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:16:53 -0700 From: James Eckman Subject: Re: Re: Shop Layout Use a tall backless stool so that you can keep the benches at the 32-36 height for standing and handwork as well. Easy to move fast also! Jim Eckm ------- Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:29:35 -0400 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Shop layout Hi Tom, regarding your new shop layout ... it's hard to give much advice given that shops are as unique as the characters that inhabit them :-) But I'll float a few ideas based on my experience (I just reworked my "corner-of-the-garage-shop" last year). Take a little more time and do what you want to do NOW!!!! Why? Because you know, and I know, that once all the stuff gets back in there and once things get going again, it's going to stay the same pretty much for the NEXT ten years? Right? :-) I had to really beat myself up to do this because having the shop down during reorg meant I wasn't able to work on projects that I wanted to ... now ... I'm glad I did. > * I'm re-wiring so I can get 220V power into the shed. Already got all > the supplies (I've had them for more than a year). Just a matter of > doing it. This will be a one evening job, probably this week. The 220 wiring is a good example of the above ... do it ... do it now and later when you get that great deal on a used 18" disc sander but it's 220 you'll be glad you did. > * I'm insulating and putting up 1/4" plywood coverings on my 2x4 frame > walls (I'm in a shed). I've got an old window AC unit that's no longer > in use, so it's going to give me climate control (YAY)! Re: heating and air-conditioning in a shed. First I'd advise against the 1/4" plywood. Go with at least 1/2", 3/4" would be better. My walls are 3/4" plywood and it lets me mount anything anywhere without worrying about stud locations, etc. This gives me more flexibility and better space util. Also be careful to consult someone who knows about the affects of CONDENSATION in your situation and design your wall coverings and insulation with it in mind. CONDENSATION in a shop is a BAD THING! > * In the process I'm having to empty my shed (mostly for insulating and > painting), so only those things I want in my shop get back into my shop. Good time to throw stuff out. Rule of thumb ---- "If you haven't touched it in 'X' years, you probably don't need it!" > * It's hard to clean If you do woodworking, now would be the time to think about a dust collection system of some sort. in terms of metal chips, etc. sealing the floor with some type of industrial epoxy floor sealant will make it much easier to sweep up and cut down on the accumulation of dirt and grease, etc. > * Chips get into EVERYTHING Don't use compressed air to clear chips off surfaces. Use an old brush and get a good wide heavy duty dust pan. I also set up 1/4 Plexiglas panels to shield off areas from chips. There really is not a lot you can do, chips is chips. Just make sure you clean your shoes well and don't take them in the house! My wife goes barefoot and ... well .... nuff said .... > * There's not much room / my benches are too big for the tools sitting > on them I'm going to say something radical here. Don't design a lot of open work space, rather have one really nice work bench area with your vice securely tied right into the wall of the shop. Why? The more open work space you have the more you will pile crap up on it instead of putting it away. If you have one nice work area and you start cluttering it up, then you got to clean it when you want to work don't ya :-) .... maybe I'm just lazy. I also have collapsible leg table which I can set up when I need more temporary space. > * My tables aren't that rigid, so sawing on my vise is a little > frustrating (I never did get around to bolting them to the walls, > something I swear I'll take care of this time!) (Ain't 20/20 hindsight > wonderful?) Build in your main work area bench right into the wall, nothing worse than trying to work on a wobbling vice! > * The lighting isn't great I have 3 fluorescent units, 2 bulbs a piece, 8 feet long bulbs, mounted to the ceiling in an "C" layout. > * All the tables have been situated for standing-height. After trying a > 27" tall lathe table, I find I *really* like sitting down when I'm > working. Just gotta get an apron. I like standing but have a 4 legged bar stool with a padded seat which lets me sit when I want to and still work at the same height. Also I have a little 3 step folding stepladder to get to top shelves and the top of my mill, etc. handy. > * My shop's disorganized!! No work flow! Ah don't worry so much about work flow .... you ain't running a production operation right? Concentrate on storage and ease of access to the machines and tools you use most. I do wood working also and have a Shopsmith knockoff combo tool. Also I have a small planer, small jointer, a scroll saw and a router table all which stack up in various ways and roll away under benches when not in use. My compressor is also tucked back in a corner under a bench. I have made some heavy duty wooden boxes on casters which roll under my mill bench and lathe bench. This is where I store my metal stock. I think there might be a picture of one corner of my shop in my FILES area on yahoo/egroups site for this group. Best of luck! After I did my reorganization I couldn't believe how much more enjoyable it was to work in the shop and wished I'd done it sooner. Of course a shop is never really done ... it's always a work in progress and there's always something new I'm adding or changing .... part of the fun ... Ken Jenkins ------- Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 11:21:52 -0500 From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Digest Number 590 At 09:54 AM 12/7/2001, you wrote: >I just made a cabinet under my lathe. About the same size and style >as the one showing in the photoalbum. The only differens is that I >used plywood. My question to you is how do I treat the wooden >surface. Should I use varnish, oil or just paint it. I am more >interested in what using in the inside of the cabinet. Due to that >many of the tools are oily the surface must have som resistance to >oil and dirt, and of course possible to clean. Spar varnish (a polyurethane) is the toughest general finish for wood. There are also Epoxy varnishes which are more resistant. Water based paints won't hold up. You might want to also consider lining surfaces that will take heavy ware with either Masonite (oil tempered hardboard) or even plastic, like heavy vinyl, Regards, Bradford Chaucer ------- Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:25:20 -0800 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: How to treat a wooden surface Joachim: I built a couple of "tables" for my Sherline mill and lathe using Oak Plywood. The tops are made from three layers of 1/2 inch thick MDF material with a piece of laminate (Formica, Lexan, etc.) for the top. Each Sherline tool mounts on its own "base" again consisting of three pieces of 1/2 inch thick MDF material. The tops of these surfaces are covered with a piece of sheet steel (primed and painted white) to provide a surface which magnetic bases for indicator tools. The wood surfaces were stained with a Pecan stain and then covered with a polyurethane varnish. As far as your being from Sweden and having a name that is not Swedish - except for our American Indian list members, all of us in the States have names that are not originally "American". Mine's of Czechoslovakian origin. Carol & Jerry Jankura Strongsville, Ohio ------- Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:59:50 +0100 From: "Graham Knight" Subject: Re: Hey this sounds useful, any tips on how to sneak expensive toys into the house without attracting The Boss's attention, and how to justify purchase of said toys should they be spotted? Graham in London, England SAM35 & 1066 Raynes Park MAC Secretary http://website.lineone.net/~raynes.pk.mac/ ------- Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 23:42:15 -0500 From: Custom Built Fishing Rods Subject: Re: One thing that works with my toy (rc) race cars is to keep everything piled in a single heap, it's hard for the casual observer to tell what's new and what's not. If I do get caught bringing in a new piece, I "traded" for it. Of course she knows I'm fibbing, but she allows me to get away with it. There is however a method to her madness, I never complain when she drags up her latest "find", and I always have time to refinish it for her. Nothing works like mutual denial when it comes to marital bliss ;~) ------- Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:13:15 -0500 From: "Daniel Kaschner" Subject: RE: Now this sounds like a real talent that I need to further develop. :-) I already have her convinced that the shop (and all my toys) is actually for her... after all, they are only there for my "honey-do" list, aren't they. :-) The only trouble that I have with using the harvest gold gas-fired annealing oven (almond in our case :-), is that as a woodworker I have attempted to microwave dry some beautiful spalted maple I have... only to start a small fire... no problem, put it out OK, and it did leave a nice holidayish, open hearth, yule log, kind of smell in the house last New Years Eve. :-) Long and short of it is, I kinda lost a few points there when it comes to the "trust me honey" activities... Probably just have to brush up on my skills a bit, maybe learn a few new angles. :-) Dan ------- Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 13:15:15 -0500 From: Ron Roske Subject: Re: The single pile approach works well, however I have found that the multiple pile concept works sooo much better. I have never delved into the exact science of exactly why it works so much more effectively, but suspect that it has something to do with geometrical progression. Then there is the " Oh, I bought that several weeks ago." This works quite well in the early stages of a marriage, but it's effectiveness gradually tapers to zero. Later in life, this approach may be ritualized by adding the phrase "don't you remember?" to the previous phrase. As to the creation of obnoxious odors. The first rule is to never do anything that might cause odors while she is home. The second rule is to always have a back up. plan. A quick run to the store to buy her something just to show her that you've been thinking of her. A nice scented candle works very well. In a pinch, a new can of some exotic air freshener can be used. But this technique may have to be supplemented with a phrase something like "I thought that this sounded like something that would smell nice, but I really don't care for it, do you, Dear?" Warning! Use these techniques at you own risk. Also remember, in marriage as in life, what goes around, comes around. Have a good one, All! RonR ------- Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:38:34 EDT From: Cmcvclockx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: I've got one that works even better for me. My shop is in the basement with entrance from the street for my retail customers and through the house for me. When we bought this house several years ago, my wife told me that she wouldn't come down in the shop until I put up a railing for her to hold on to coming down the inside stairs. Still haven't put up the rail, she hasn't been in the shop and has no idea what UPS brings me through the week! Chris McVetty The Clock Meister 1000 East Main Street Murfreesboro TN 37130 (615)895-8788 ------- Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:13:46 -0400 From: "Marshall Pharoah" Subject: Re: It is a well known fact that women can't really tell one tool from another. The trick is to keep a very messy workshop. Leave sheets draped over everything, especially piles of crap. When you bring home a new tool, make sure she's out for the day. Replace one of the piles of crap with it and recover with a sheet. When she notices, "Why, I've had that for ages, dear." Method 2. Take her shopping. Buy until she is sick of it. Whe she comes out of a store with nothing, find out why, what she wanted that was too expensive. Then go back in and buy it. She'll never say a word when you drop four times as much on a new tool. (Don't tell her the price, of course.) ------- Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:02:14 -0400 From: Tom Bank Subject: Re: the scenery list. Graham, Pat, Daniel, Ron, others -- Back about fifty years ago there was an article or a letter in the Model Railroader magazine by a guy who said he had an overcoat custom made by a tailor for him. On the inside edge of the facing on the button hole side he had a looong pocket installed that went straight down, long enough to hide a brass articulated locomotive. The coat cost him a pretty penny, but the engine of his dreams made it to the basement -- where he was able to paint and weather it so it blended in with the rest of his possessions. The candle tip is good, but remember to light it before -- or immediately upon -- starting what turns out to be a smelly process. The candle flame will then, with luck, consume some or all of the smell. Clue your wife in. It helps with cooking odors. As for hiding things in one or more piles, I do it the easy way: I am just lax in cleaning up my "Lair" (where I go to do all my hobby stuff). She rarely sticks her nose into the mess. When I need to use a tool, I clean up around it. Sometimes in doing so I encounter wonderful things I had totally forgotten. On occasion I have come across two or three of the same neat tool -- of which I only ever needed one, if I had remembered that I had already purchased it. Regards, Tom ------- Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 15:34:06 -0400 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: Two Questions about Dimensions Hi Glenn: Congratulations on your new machines! I have built bases for a fair number of machines, and while I can't offer specific dimensions for the Atlas mill, would recommend you size the base to put the table a few inches below the point of your elbow when standing. This allows you to work without stooping, and allows you to place heavy items such as vices, rotary tables, dividing heads, whatever, on the table without having to pass through the awkward zone where the forearms cross over a line parallel to the floor. Easier on you, and makes it less likely to slip and put a heavy bit of tooling down on the table hard. If this doesn't make sense, hold a pencil in each hand pointed forward, keep them parallel to the floor, and raise them from below the belt to chest height - the wrists do funny things as you cross through, particularly when heavily loaded. My mill/drill stand is made of 2 inch angle iron, welded, and has filler panels on the rear and sides. The side fillers are 3/4 inch birch ply, this lets you put screws to hang things where you want them. I allowed about 4 inches extra on each side, and capped the overhang with polyurethaned 6 inch shelving. The overhang helps keep drips and crud off the sides. 1 inch angle iron was welded in running front to back for drawer supports, this allows drawers to be built as strong trays. Clean up the angle iron inner surfaces a bit, wax the drawer bottom and sides, and things slide nicely, even when heavily loaded. Not as nice as full extension heavy duty roller slides, but certainly cheaper! The mill drill itself is bolted to two pieces of 4 inch channel iron welded across the front and rear top pieces of angle iron. A drip pan fits between the two channel iron supports, to catch the drips from the leadscrew and bits of swarf that get past the shields. 1/2 inch steel squares are welded to the bottom of the angle iron uprights, tapped 1/2-13 to allow adjustable feet. About 4 inches up from the floor, angle iron is welded on to create a set of lips to take a bottom shelf. I would go higher the next time, the edges of the angle iron shelf support frame ended up too close to the floor to make clean up as easy as I had intended, I put the shelf four inches from the floor, not the lower edge of the angle iron :-( In reality, I wish the drawers hade been built close to the floor, with the heavy shelf up higher. The shelf tends to gather heavy stuff like rotary tables, lifting them from low down gets old. Getting a 1/2 inch endmill from 6 inches off the floor is easier than lifting a 10 inch rotary table. This may get done, it's just that changing it around will be a lot of work, as the mill has to come off, and a new paint job will have to go on when the welding is done. I find that I don't hang things on the side of the cabinet base as originally allowed for. Even with the overhang, swarf would get on wrenches, the clamping bits and pieces were awkward to get to when the table was moved very far from center, yadda yadda... Seemed like a good idea at the time, it's just that mills tend to toss swarf and oil all over, unlike a shaper or lathe. If you don't have welding equipment, you could bolt it all together, just add some diagonal bracing to keep things from racking. My base weights around 200 pounds, add in another couple of hundred pounds of tooling and fixtures, and things stay in place without vibrating quite nicely. Some folks have built lumber bases, if you use good sturdy stuff, and glue and screw everything, that works OK in many cases. Most of my workbenches are built this way. I tend to avoid sheet metal bases for two reasons - they tend to be noisy and a tad flimsy, and I don't have the equipment or skill to built them well. A friend with a stamped steel base for his Rong Fu RF31 mill drill put 3 bags of sand in his base and bonded some 3/4 ply to the inner walls of the sides with construction adhesive, this helped quite a bit. Hope this is of some use, Stan ------- Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:15:35 -0400 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Totally ignorant questions |I've been thinking seriously for months about getting a Sherline |lathe. I did some woodworking in the past, but I've never done any |metalworking before, and I'm worried about how practical it is to do |this in an apartment. Great! If you have the space, I'd suggest the 4400 over the 4000 (long bed vs short bed) because you'll find that sometimes, chucks and reamers take up a lot of 'over the bed' space. |I emailed Sherline a while back about how much noise a lathe makes |and was told it would not be louder than a vacuum. Is that about |right? I'm hoping it won't be that loud--maybe more like a sewing |machine? Sherline is correct - it won't be louder than a vacuum cleaner. It'll be quite a bit quieter. I don't think that you'll have neighbors complaining (but, then, I don't know your neighbors) when you use it. I'd probably not place it against a connecting wall, just to be sure. |Also, how easy is it to clean up after using a lathe or milling |machine? If I do something where oil is needed, how likely is it to |get slung all over the place? It depends on how you prepare your workshop (yes, an area in an apartment can be considered a workshop). Sherline suggests that you mount the machine on a small shelf purchased from a Home Depot or similar store. Forget this. Instead, think about building an enclosure for it. Put a metal pan under the machine to collect any cutting oil that may drip and plan on applying oil sparingly rather than as a flood. If you have a back and a couple of sides, you'll limit the direction in which chips can travel. Work on a tile or lineoleum surface, and put a rubber type pad on that. You'll have problems with a shag carpet, for example. |Basically, I'm wondering if my neighbors or landlord will have a |problem with this, and if I'll be losing my security deposit on the |way out next year. I'd venture that your neighbors won't know that you have a machine. As far as your security deposit - it's probably more a matter of the landlord's integrity and your housekeeping methods. If you surround the machine on at least four sides (leave the end near the handwheels open and the front) when you're machining, you'll have a good chance at keeping the place clean. You'll also want to invest in a decent small shop vacuum, and use it often during the machining process. |Also, I've gotten the Tabletop Machining book. Is there any point to |getting The Home Machinist's Handbook too? yes, they compliment each other. You might also want to consider some of the "shop wisdom of Rudy Kouhoupt" books from Village Press. Book #2 offers a fair number of projects aimed at the Sherline tools (more on the mill than the lathe, though). Jerry ------- Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 18:38:42 -0500 From: "Al Lenz" Subject: RE: Poor Man's Surface Plate, was ' Lapping' While shopping for ceramic tile a few years ago, I noticed the outlets also carried a few marble and granite tiles. I picked up a black granite floor tile 12 X 12 and about 3/8 thick. It was 5 or 6 dollars as I recall. I have certainly got my money's worth out of it, lapping with wet or dry paper, or using is as a surface plate. I know that it isn't 'perfectly' flat, but is darn close, better than anything that I have to check it against. Judging from the reflection in it's polished surface, I would think it compares favorably with a plate glass mirror. Al ------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:39:03 -0000 From: "Orrin" Subject: Machining in living quarters? Does anyone have their machine tools set up in their living quarters? If so, how much of a problem is it to cope with the swarf and lubricant mess? To explain: I have a machine shop in the basement, but don't feel right about spending my evenings down there. My wife has a day job and I feel it's not right to have her spend her evenings alone. It's just too cool for her to come down to the shop while she reads the paper, etc. I've toyed with the idea of setting up a machinist's cupboard in our TV lounge area and "doing my thing" on the Sherlines, there. We don't have carpet in this area. The main thing holding me back is the mess. My full- sized machines can really create one, big-time. Thank you in advance for your input. Orrin ------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:45:38 -0700 From: "Dave Hylands" Subject: RE: Machining in living quarters? Hi Orrin, I have my Sherline setup downstairs in an area with carpeted flooring. Most of my mess seems to be on the table, with a bit of it spilling onto the floor. Adding deflectors made of Plexiglas (or pretty much anything) really helps to contain the mess. I have a bunch of rectangular cork "hot pads" or pieces of cardboard that I prop up depending on where things are flying. I eventually want to install something more permanent, but I need to use the machines for a while to get a feel for where I do and don't want some type of enclosure. The fly cutter seems to distribute the mess the widest. If you don't have carpeting then it should be pretty easy to sweep up anything that misses and winds up on the floor. Dave Hylands Vancouver, BC, Canada http://www.davehylands.com/ ------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:04:39 -0400 From: "Dan Statman" Subject: Re: Machining in living quarters? Orrin, I do a lot of machining every day, 4-8 hours. The mess is enormous from this. I am generally running both the Sherline mill and lathe at the same time. I do not use cutting fluid except while milling with TINY cutters (0.03125" and smaller). I do this all in my basement, and could never imagine bringing this mess upstairs. I seem to track enough of it upstairs, anyway. Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs www.statmandesigns.com ------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:36:42 -0700 From: Alan Marconett KM6VV Subject: Re: Machining in living quarters? Hi Orrin, I have a CNC controlled Sherline Mill in my upstairs "bonus" room (used for my "office"). It's carpeted. For the last two years I just ran the mill on a 6' x 30" credenza. As long as you're not wanting to run flood cooling, the chips can be handled. I often kept a unfolded cardboard box (6"x6"x6" or so, the sides, top/bottom cut off), and wrapped it around the work envelope if I was generating excessive swarf. Nowadays, I have a large Plexiglas box that the mill runs in, and it's quite easy to contain things. The Plexiglas box was intended for shows, and with minimal cutting on the top, works fine. The front, which is the open side of the box, allows me access, and I guess I could make some removeable Plexiglas panels to close it off, or a plastic "curtain", but I haven't bothered yet. I'd suggest a carpet scrap in front of the mill, although I didn't even have that for two years. I can take a pix and post it if anyone is interested. I have SEVERAL computers, TV, CD's, VCR's, HAM radio's, etc. in the same area, so it's really convenient to run there! Original thought was to put a computer in the garage, with the lathe, bandsaw, grinder, and (then) mill. But as I was integrating the CNC mill system, I didn't want to run up and down stairs to try things out on the mill. Well... the mill never made it back to the garage, although I did get an RF-31 mill. IT will stay in the garage! Alan KM6VV P.S. Yes, I have a wife, and she's OK with this. I would recommend headphones, as the mill cutting can get quite loud (might not be a problem if you're running manually). ------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:48:44 -0000 From: "Flosi Gudmundsson" Subject: Re: Machining in living quarters? Orrin, I read it somewhere on the internet, that the only real problem with doing metalworking in the living room is that when flycutting, red hot chips can fly around and spoil the enamel of your motorbyke. I don't have a motorbyke, but my lathe and mill are stationed in a corner of my livingroom. I keep a broom and a vacuum cleaner ready and clean up often. So far the oak floor hasn't suffered noticeably. I think it's a matter of cleaning up before it becomes a mess. I think it's just a matter of how much machining you are going to do. Flosi in Iceland ------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:44:39 EDT From: goodolddanx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Machining in living quarters? Hi Orrin and all, Because of advancing arthritis and two-replacement knee surgery, I was unable to keep machining in the cool damp garage climate here in northern Illinois. I set up a machining center in my old N scale train room. I have shag carpeting on the floor now protected by 2 plastic rug protectors from an office supply store. Purchasing a used office desk and credenza allows me to sit and roll around between the lathe and v.mill "workstations" via an "office type chair". I added a metal cookie sheet to the lathe area and use a small vacuum cleaner to clean up the chips. The Sherline 5400 mill is mounted to a laminate covered board with rubber feet to cut down on noise and vibration. It is easily moved to the desk area when needed. Like Allen, I keep my ham radio receiver, a combo TV and VCR and a "music" type radio within hand's reach of the desk. I do make an effort to keep the room and work surfaces clean. I added a dental type multi drawer cabinet for tool storage, a Kennedy type machinist chest, and "container" type box for the grinding wheel and now jeweler's lathe workstations. One added benefit besides a more comfortable work area, one of my granddaughters has shown an interest in machining now that I'm out of the garage. Happy Chips everyone!!!!!! Dan ------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:56:04 -0700 From: "David Wood" Subject: Re: Machining in living quarters? I'm sure others will respond similarly, but you should read the article in The Shop Wisdom of Rudy Kouhoupt on setting up a portable cabinet to accommodate the machines. (If you don't have this book, and its companion volume 2, you should.) Dave Wood ------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:06:56 -0400 From: RichD Subject: Re: Machining in living quarters? Well, my hobby machining area is carpeted with the office thin closed loop type carpet and besides saving drop tools, etc from serious damage, it also keeps the chips from being tracked all thru the house. Vacuuming up soon after a project session, before trampling the chips into the carpet, is easy. I watch for good carpet discards and place where needed. Flying chip control is effective with sections of corrugated cardboard boxes placed as needed and then stowed when not in use. Cheap & easy to modify. Simple L sections are free standing. The Sherline 5400 mill takes a 10" high 3 sided cardboard shield nicely. RichD ------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:27:11 -0400 From: "John Guenther" Subject: RE: Machining in living quarters? I used to have my lathe and mill on a 30 x 72 inch work bench/hobby center in the family room of our townhouse. This worked out well, I had a plastic office chair pad under the table and a rolling chair at the table. I just vacuumed up the swarf at the end of each session. Ever since the flood of Christmas 1999 (broken polybutylene (sp) pipe) my lathe and mill have been in the garage. This limits my machining to the warmer months, but I am getting a heater this winter. John Guenther Sterling, Virginia ------- Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:21:36 -0400 From: "Ron Ginger" Subject: RE: Machining in living quarters? A few years ago I had to spend a month at a University trainnig course, where I stayed in a hotel. Since I never watch TV I figured Id have to take something to work on. At that Time I had a Unimat so I built it a traveling case and took some other modeling tools. I had the hotel send up an extra table and in the month I was there I finished a nice model. The staff probably thought I was nuts, but I had a 'Dust Buster' vac along and kept thing cleaned up each night after I used it. I just bought a Fith wheel type camper and this winter my wife and I will spend a few weeks somewhere south with it. I expect to take along some small set of modeling machines, whatever I can fit into the one storage compartment I can devote to this. My wife gets a similar storage compartment for her quilting project. Its nicer to have a dedicated shop room, but it can be shared with the rest of the living quarters with some care. ron ginger ------- Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:13:08 -0500 From: "Dick Farris" Subject: RE: Re-wiring my lathe [atlas_craftsman] > From: mhannah100x~xxaol.com [mailto:mhannah100x~xxaol.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:28 AM > I'm in the process of doing a quick cleanup and inspection of my *new*model 101 QC lathe before I mount it on my homemade stand. I'm thinking that I should re-wire it with a 3-wire cord having a grounding conductor for safety reasons. How is the best way to do this? < Take the green ground conductor to the frame of the motor and under that screw or bolt put another short flex jumper to the frame of the machine. Ground to bare metal in all cases. Then make sure your outlet ground wires are continuous from the outlet all the way back to the ground bar in the fuse or the breaker box. Be sure your system has only one main ground point like at a water main or a driven ground rod otherwise you may get what is called ground currents and this really promotes electrolysis or electrical erosion. Dick Farris Retired Electrical and computer engineer Craftsman 109, Smithy Granite, broken taps and bits. ------- Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:12:35 -0600 From: Rodent Subject: Re: Re-wiring my lathe Most motors have a green ground screw inside the cover where the power wires are connected. This should be tied to the green wire in your cord which goes to the ground pin on your AC plug. Assuming your lathe motor runs on 110 VAC, make sure you use a 3-prong cord and outlet and use a meter or one of those $3 testers from Home Depot to make sure the outlet is wired properly. In a workshop environment I would suggest having a GFI outlet installed for your 110 VAC powered equipment -- this is a special outlet that helps prevent electrical shocks by detecting leakage current. Older houses don't have them, but newer houses typically have them in the kitchen and garage. They look like a regular outlet, but have a test and reset button on them. ------- Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:11:51 -0500 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: Re-wiring my lathe At 01:59 PM 11/24/02 -0500, you wrote: >Consider Ground Fault Device as well. Ground motor for sure and as >switch may be on machine that also may wise to ground as well. Note that regular Ground Fault Interrupters GFI have trouble with motors, they can frequently trip on motor startup (1/2HP and up). Look for GFIs that are "Motor Rated" at your hardware store. The ones I found are basically an ON/OFF switch, so you need an additional electrical box space for the actual outlet. Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USA http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/t/h/thib9564/ ------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:50:22 -0600 From: "Mike" Subject: Re: Cleaning/ Re-wiring my lathe Thanks guys, for all the tips on cleaning and wiring my machine with a ground conductor. I did a little cleaning last night...used what I had handy...engine degreaser. It worked fairly well but took some scrubbing. I'm going to try some kerosene and/or mineral spirits when I get a chance to work on it again. The wiring suggestions confirmed what I was thinking about doing. I felt like the ground wire should be attached to the motor frame but wasn't sure about whether to ground anything else. I liked the suggestion about tying in a short pigtail wire [to motor ground terminal or case] and attaching it to the frame of the machine also. Sounds like the way to go. I already have ground fault protected circuits in my shop. I just finished building my shop, and by code all the 120v receptacles are required to have GFCI protection, so that's not a problem. However, I have been told that they sometimes cause *nuisance tripping* with some electric motor applications, as was noted in one of the posts. Thanks again for the suggestions. Mike Hannah ------- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:37:34 -0600 From: "Paul Siegert" Subject: RE: Re: Bed Stiffener Jerry: How well a lathe is leveled is critical when doing close tolerance work. The tighter the tolerances you are working to, the more important this is. I have a friend in Florida that has a relatively expensive lathe that he had a company that specializes in rolling frames build a caster wheel rig to do with his lathe what you are doing with your woodworking tools on wheels (he also has all his woodworking tools on wheels for the same reason you do). It is great looking and he has leveled it with a very accurate precision level. I asked him if it was still level after he moved in. It has been several months since he installed it and his comment was something to the effect of given the time it took to level, he hasn't lowered the wheels to move it from the initial place he leveled it. Living in the Dallas area and given the incredible heat in the summer and lack of rain, foundations (no basements here) tend to shift a bit one way in the summer and the opposite in the cooler rainy weather. When doing critical work I have to relevel two or three times a year or the results are unacceptable. This is on a lathe that is considerably more stable, structurally and otherwise than my Craftsman. From what I've read the Craftsman/Atlas lathes, due to their light, non rigid construction are particularly vulnerable to inaccuracies when not properly leveled. That is a long comment to say that I think you will have to relevel the lathe each time you move it if you put it on casters, and the time to level it may take longer than the project you are going to use it for (of course a lot depends on the accuracy you require on the project at hand). No matter how big your shop is, it will never be large enough, given enough time and money. Paul ------- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 03:47:24 -0000 From: "George" Subject: Re: Bed Stiffener Guys: I think that you are forgetting the reason that you are leveling your lathe!! We don't level them so that they are true to the level of the earth! We level them so as to make sure that they are level with themselves!! That is, that ALL parts of the lathe are TRUE to all other parts of the lathe!! The best way to do that is to level the work bench that the lathe is bolted to, then level the lathe to the bench! Now if the bench is moved after leveling and it is solid enough not to warp then the lathe is still level to the bench and therefor will still run true!! If the bench is not strong enough and warps then the lathe will not be level to the bench and will not run true!! So if you build a strong enough bench for your lathe then you should be able to move it around some and not have to relevel it every so often!! Just my $.02 worth! George Hunt Tool&Die Machinist ------- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:53:22 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Re: Bed Stiffener Here we go again with the "level" problem again. I'll say this, if you have a non-solid surface that you have the lathe on, make the bottom support of the base a 3 point support and then a plate which you can work against the lathe bed to make the lathe aligned or "leveled" properly. This will allow the lathe to be moved as desired without losing the alignment of the lathe. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:31:55 -0600 From: "John Glowacki" Subject: Concrete Lathe Base I have uploaded a picture of my concrete lathe base to the 12" lathes> Craftsman folder. My father, Ted P. Glowacki, was a self employed job shop machinist for thirty some years. His machine shop was attached to our house in Germantown Wisconsin (USA). This gave me the added benefit of growing up in and around a machine shop, with real machines. All of his equipment dated back to the 1920's -- 1940's. He had this Craftsman 101.070403 12" x 36" lathe around for small lightweight jobs. He made many bushings etc. with this machine over the years. My father passed away this past February after a hard fought battle with heart disease. After my father's passing, we had the huge task of cleaning up and clearing out his shop. This made for a very busy year for us, as my wife gave birth to a wonderful baby boy five days before my father passed. It's been a real roller coaster. After all was said and done, the craftsman lathe had to stay in my shop. Anyway, back to the lathe base. My father constructed this concrete lathe base more than thirty years ago. This takes a relatively flimsy lathe, and transports it into a very stable machine. The sheer mass of the concrete makes for a very nice platform. There were some concerns posted about lack of portability with concrete. That is right, this IS NOT portable! At All! In fact, it took a bit of engineering to move. We removed the lathe from the base, and involved ropes and chains and wheels and tractors, and about fifty seven vise grip pliers, and more wheels and ropes, well, you get the picture. My father in law was in charge of this operation. I just did what I was told. Without doing the math, I think this concrete base weighs in at 500-700 lb. It is not top heavy or unstable. The legs are very heavy steel pipe welded and braced with leveling screws on the feet. And I'm sure the concrete has a whole lot of steel re-bar inside. It is even built with a coolant trough that runs the perimeter of the base with a drain tube. The lathe bolts to three studs that are cemented into the base. After moving we re-attached the lathe to the base, and leveled it with the foot screws. It is solid. This may be overkill for a craftsman lathe, but dad built this for stability, not portability. This is the first time it has moved since it was built. I now have this fine lathe, and more tooling than I could list. It has been many years since worked as a machinist. I am going to take it slow, as my time is a bit limited with a 9-10 month old baby boy at home, but I will work on my lathe skills and bring them up to date. This user group is a fine asset for helping to make that happen. I hope to contribute as I can. My father worked a lot of good information into my head. So far, the motor gave out after the move, so I have installed a new motor, with reverse. I also just installed a segmented link belt to the spindle. I only wish dad could have been here to see it. He would have been impressed! John Glowacki ------- Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 03:41:22 -0000 From: "Derf" Subject: Re: Concrete Lathe Base You should go to Varmint Al's site and read his history. It sounds like you two have a lot in common. http://www.cctrap.com/~varmint/alath.htm Cheers, Derf ------- Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 00:41:37 -0000 From: "Richard Feldman " Subject: Lighting for my my lathe I've gotten tired of the bare 75W bulb hanging above my 618, and am looking for ideas for a relatively straightforward home remedy... something effective that I can put together, or even a commercial product that's a "gotta-have". Any ideas? Sorry for the trivial aspect of the question, but you all come up with such practical solutions things; my search of the archives yielded nil. Thanks, Rich ------- Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 19:43:12 -0500 From: Ed Bell Subject: Re: Lighting for my my lathe I use a cantilevered double 15W florescent fixture that I got used. With my middle-aged eyes, I couldn't live without it. Ed ------- Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 02:01:50 -0000 From: "dkinzer2000 " Subject: Re: Lighting for my my lathe I have one of those extending arm lamps mounted on my lathe so that I can move it around to where light is needed. In place of the usual clamp type mount, I have a short piece of square tubing with a hole drilled to accept the stem of the lamp swivel. This is attached to the back of the lathe with machine screws. I'm thinking of replacing the lamp with one of those round fluorescent types with the magnifying glass in the center. Don Kinzer Portland, OR ------- Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 20:20:02 -0600 From: Rodent Subject: Re: Re: Lighting for my my lathe We were fortunate enough to find a pair of gooseneck lamps with an actual metal shade, one clamp-on and one weighted base -- a whopping $8 at the office supply. If you take off the base / clamp and make a bracket for the gooseneck you have a nice worklight. Unfortunately, they have since stopped selling the lights in pairs and now sell only singles for about the same price. Avoid like hell the magnetic base worklights Harbor Freight sells -- if the bracket doesn't bust within a week or two, the plastic switch plunger will melt down with a 55-watt bulb, even when it says its rated for a 75 watt bulb. As far as the round, fluorescent, magnifying "ring" lights, keep in mind they may create a stroboscopic effect on a turning part. Some folks don't even notice it, while others experience vertigo. You also have a very small undistorted field of view -- things outside the center of the lens tend to be distorted. If you are making a really small part and needed to see what's going on, they would be ideal -- otherwise get a pair of reading glasses from Wal-Mart. At any rate, don't pay more than $40 for the cheap ones and don't waste your money on the expensive ones. I would not even consider the ones with an incandescent bulbs. ------- Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:38:03 -0500 From: "Richard Farris" Subject: Re: Lighting for my my lathe I've got a couple of twin tube 40 watt shop flourescents over my lathes and have two separate 75 watt incandescent clamp type shop lights that I clamp to a shelf or an overhead joist - where ever I decide I need them. Then I have a double jointed swing arm incandescent at 75 watts that can be angled about any angle I want. I like to use the incandescents to knock out or diminish the strobe effect I sometimes get from the fluorescents. Dick Farris ------- Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:56:42 EST From: anthrhodesx~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Lighting for my my lathe In a message dated Sun, 08 Dec 2002, Ed Bell writes: << I use a cantilevered double 15W florescent fixture that I got used. With my middle-aged eyes, I couldn't live without it. >> Ooh, that's a touchy concept. Have you ever gotten the "movie effect" where the chuck looks like it's running slower than you know it is or stopping, then running in reverse? It's my understanding that this effect can occur with flourescent lamps because they light the scene as if they were 120 Hertz stroboscopes. Using the flourescent lamps *in addition to* incandescents should cure the potential problem and is a reasonable solution. Anthony Berkeley, Calif. ------- Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:13:23 -0600 From: "jerdal" Subject: Re: Re: Lighting for my my lathe Mostly a theoretical problem. I have tried to spot the effect as the lathe stopped, never have spotted a real "stop-motion" effect. The phosphors on the standard fluorescent tube have "persistence", they keep glowing for a short while. This is a design feature of the lamps, which smears out the light pulses. There will always be a multi-colored "streak" effect, even at the perfect strobe speed. The colors come from the decay rate of the various phosphors. Blink as you turn off a fluorescent lamp, you will often see a greenish after-glow. If you have a regular outdoor mercury vapor or sodium arc lamp, you might indeed have the problem in a more marked fashion Jerry ------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:57:37 -0500 From: Jeff A Hammer Subject: Re: Re: Lighting for my lathe-Thanks Yes, I have incandescent and replacement screw in fluorescent "bulbs" in the standard 1930's ceiling fixtures of my workshop for general lighting. But for task lighting around the lathe and other tools, I use my old #9004 halogen car headlights running off an old XT computer power supply using the 5 and 12 volt leads. This gives a choice of two different intensities. Up here in Canada, the headlights on most vehicles are used as daytime running lights and come on as soon as you start your car but at a reduced brightness. This has the effect of prematurely burning out the regular beam filament, leaving the high beam filament intact. The high beam is 65 watts at 12 volt or you can put two bulbs in series for 32.5 watts each. I just hang them on two bare wires for "+" and "-" and you can slide them too any position along the wires, wherever you want the light. Choosing the "-" and the 5 or 12 volt "+" wire. Best of all these bulbs are free, I used to just throw them out, and the power supplies from old XT PC's are also free ( you can't even give them away). These are "switching power supplies" which run at extremely high frequencies and are very clean with no strobe affect. Just a note, don't open up these power supplies, they're vary dangerous. Throw them away or take them apart for the components and get another one from your local computer store to use for the lights. One more thing, there are commercially available halogen lighting systems sold at Home Depot that work the exact same way (without the choice of brightness) for use in kitchens etc. Well that's my tip of the day, never throw anything out when you can use it for something it was never intended. Regards, Jeff ------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:26:37 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: Re: New Member [NOTE TO FILE: QUESTION AS TO BEST HEIGHT FOR LATHE WORKBENCH? There are many answers. This one makes really good sense as everyone has individual preferences, based on their own experiences.] That sort of stuff is highly variable. I myself don't like to stand for extended times and prefer to sit at a desk type chair. This means that large lathes are usually way too high for me to sit at unless I use a lab stool. Then comes the angle at which you look at the work. Some like to look down almost from directily overhead while others tend to look more level. Most tend to want to work the majority of the controls of a lathe with a slight lift of the hands from the horizontal. If you haven't done machining before, try the lathe on a typical bench and see if you can access everything easily without problems and you feel comfortable. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:24:56 -0800 From: "Wally Skyrman" Subject: Bench Height for a Bench lathe If memory serves me I built my lathe bench according to the suggestions that came with our 12" Craftsman lathe back in 1970. Well it was too low for me and I made raiser blocks to go under both ends that raised it up to where the cross feed handle is even with my elbow. An unintended consequence was that I ended up with an extra 3 1/2" under the lathe bed and carriage. Makes it a lot easier to clean up, not that I am noted for cleaning up after myself. (:-). Wally Skyrman Central Point, OR ------- Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:20:59 -0800 From: "Bob May" Subject: Re: LATHE LIGHT The Salvation Army type stores are always a good place to go to find things like this. Personally, I'd rather have a nice gooseneck incandescent lamp over the lathe (no strobe effect from the light!) and the head mounted magnifiers for viewing the work. Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net ------- Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 23:30:33 -0500 From: Stan Stocker Subject: Re: lathe light Skip Evans wrote: > Be leery of the 8 footers. They are slower to start and sometimes > if it cold, not at all. Stick with the 4 footers. There are 8 foot high output fixtures specified for outdoor use, such as those found in bank drive throughs and other such places. Expensive unless you know a commercial electrician who can give you some old ones when commercial buildings modernize or remodel. My neighbor has three of them in his shop, they start when the 4 foot twin tube el cheapo brand shop lights won't! The shop lights with real ballasts cost more, but are worth it. I have some of the cheap ones with the baby ballasts in the ends rather than the true ballast above. They have less light output, won't run commercial higher output tubes, fail more often, and don't cold start well at all. When looking at used commercial lighting, double check the voltage. I was surprised when working with one of our electricians (hanging a data projector 15 foot up) to note the 440V stickers on the lines to the grid lights. According to him, 440V fluorescent fixtures are quite common in commercial buildings. Guess that's why commercial and residential electricians are two different pieces of the trade. Cheers, Stan ------- Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:17:06 EST From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: lathe light Here in Michigan the gas stations that are well lite in Summer (when you really don't need the light) get really dingy (and depressing) when it gets cold...light output falls off steeply as temperature gets near freezing or below. Fluorescent (sp) fixtures in my unheated garage don't work near as well in cold of Winter as they do in heat of Summer...so I have incandescent bulbs as well. Louis ------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:41:44 -0800 From: "Patrick Lee Rooney" Subject: RE: Lathe Storage -----Original Message----- From: too_many_tools [mailto:too_many_toolsx~xxyahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:26 AM Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Lathe Storage >> On the subject of storing a bench lathe, has anyone come up with a novel way of having a lathe bench and hauling crate combined. I am thinking of perhaps combining the two features so one can use the bottom of the crate for a lathe bench. Also combining features to make it easier to haul up a set of steps by the single user/mover would be really neat too. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance Too_many_Tools << Just a suggestion if you do make a crate for your lathe. I am located on the coast, and machine tools located in unheated facilities tend to rust ...fast. We made a bunch of crates open ended at the top, and glassed them over. A few 12V auto type bulbs mounted inside these covers and connected to a battery and solar charger keeps the air surrounding the machine heated just enough to avert any surface rust. A few that are against the wall, just fold down on compound hinges. Ones in the middle of the floor require two people to mount on the machines, and are sort of a pain. Keeps the machines nice and fresh though, so worth the trouble. Just can't afford to heat the facility 24/7. Good luck, Pat. ------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:25:53 -0500 From: "John Guenther" Subject: RE: Lathe Storage go to http://www.sherline.com/workshop.htm and check out the Traveling Workshop/Jerry Kieffer which is about 1/2 way down the page. John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, Virginia ------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:30:32 +0000 From: Brian Squibb Subject: RE: Lathe Storage 28/03/2003, you wrote: >Just a suggestion if you do make a crate for your lathe. I am located on the coast, and machine tools located in unheated facilities tend to rust...fast. < I use an aerosol oil all over the tools which keeps the rust at bay, also keeps the tools well lubed and running free. Brian ------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:06:19 -0000 From: "azbruno" Subject: Re: Bench for 618 Simpson Strong-Tie has 6 DIY project plans you can download at www.strongtie.com/ftp/fliers/diy-project.pdf I built the Heavy Duty Table. They sell a kit for about $25 which includes all the brackets and screws (www.strongtie.com/diy/diykwb1.htm) or you can get them separately. Put at least an inch of plywood on the top. I also added an extra 2x4 rail down the middle front to back to provide extra support and to have something to screw down the plywood to in the middle (using a couple of other Simpson connectors for stability). I finished the top with about 6 layers of polyurethane, leveled it and bracketed it to a solid wall. Works great and is very fast to build (except for waiting for the polyurethane to dry) and inexpensive. -Bruno ------- Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:39:37 -1000 (HST) From: Tom Benedict Subject: Re: Re: 7 inch shaper bench height [NOTE TO FILE: The original discussion related to an AMMCO shaper needing a bench and was put into the "AMMCO Shaper" text file. The comments in this message are more general so it's here.] On Sat, 24 May 2003, al_messer wrote: > One thing a lot of folks don't think about when building a bench is > height vs. back troubles. Example: my kitchen sink counter is just > about 2 inches too low for my wife or myself to stand and wash dishes > for any length of time as we unconsciously slump down to reach the > dishes and after a bit, our lower backs are killing us. My work benches > in the shop, however, are at a level where I can stand in front of the > vise and file away without my back hurting. An older machinist told me > that the comfortable height for a workbench was measuring by holding > your elbows at your sides and extending your hands outward and whatever > the height of your forearms when held level, that was the proper height > for YOUR bench. Hope this helps. I'm in the process of designing and building new benches for my shop. I just finished my vise bench, and did that exact trick. I've only used it a handful of times, but already I can feel the difference. Man, I wish I'd done this years ago. Tom ------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 20:53:35 -0000 From: "Art Volz" Subject: Shop Space. WAS: New to shapers - which one to get? [SEE REST OF DISCUSSION IN Shaper Comparisons file] In Metal_Shapersx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Ray Ethridge" wrote: >I am not sure what you mean by the 6-7" cube, but one > of the keys is to have the machines share the "operator" area for a home > shop. My mill, my two lathes and my bandsaw all open to the same > basic area for operating them. If there were more people in the shop > this of course would not work, but for a one man shop I think there > is a great space saving by running multiple machines from > the same area. Ray Ethridge I agree with Ray about sharing operator space. My shop is in a two car garage, and is totally filled with both metal and wood working equipment, amongst other "trash and garbage" as my wife would be wont to call it. Shared operator space is the ONLY way I can use my tools. Basically, I can access my tools via three length- wise "paths" to individual tool clusters. For example, in one such cluster I have a Logan/MW-10 lathe with behind its shared operator's space (in the aisle/path 180 degrees to the operator's rear) a Lewis- 10 shaper nestled side-by-side to a Ta-Fu-Yuan R8 Rusnok-style Bench mill. Butt to butt to these two machines, and in the next aisle/path over, is a Barker PM horizontal mill. And so it is, throughout the shop, machine tool clusters of back-to- back "squares", accessed by paths which also double as shared operator space. The next cluster over, for example, has a Benchmaster horizontal mill butted up against a Barnes 4-1/2 velocipede type c. 1890 lathe (undergoing re-building) and immediately across the aisle/pathway a Lewis horizontal mill. And so it goes--path by path, cluster by cluster. Some of the major wood working equipment--amongst them two table saws and a jointer--are parked under work tables; they have to be rolled out to the driveway (= advance planning) for utilization. I have, however, a partly accessible radial arm saw and a compound miter saw that can be directly utilized: just can't rip long boards. Other machinery is clustered--drill presses and band saws and sanders and a wood lathe and.... Welding equipment, while inside (except for the acetylene), is used outside and is accessed thru a side doorway in which the shop's window air conditioner is also mounted. Gotta use all of the space available. As one can readily comprehend, mine is not an OSHA shop--never would be one anyway what with the 1940's style unprotected belts and pullies and shafts whipping about here and there...every which where. It is, however, a one-man shop: MINE. Don't enter when I'm working or one of my 'chines will get ya...if Shirley the shop dawg ain't got'cha first. Stay out of harms way...out of the eye of my storm. While this seemingly nightmarish chaos works for me, for most folks it would be total disaster: an accident looking for a place to happen. (Don't do it like I do it unless you've got bats in the bellfry (sp?) like me...or a rookery of crows like Ray has (raises) to feed his pet itinerant Mexican undocumented eagles...or the weekly crafts show vistors atop Chappell Hill. The latter have been known to remark: "Gosh that's real tasty Tejas midget turkey that Ray nukes! A bit on the smallish side, but all dark meat and served on a stick carved from still smoldering native mesquite. Yummy!!" Now you know why Ray has a crows nest atop his antenna tower. :-) ) Art (Cluster-mania in Houston North) ------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:36:17 -0500 From: Mike M Fendley Subject: Re: Shop Space. Shop space? Not trying to "one up Art" (you couldn't do that anyway) but my shop is a shared operator space machine shop too . . . mine is in a school bus! It was the wife's idea making the shop easier to move when we moved. (Little did I know she also realized a bus does have limitations . . . you can only get so much in!) I have one aisle (down the center of course) but have as many as 3 guys working in the bus at a time, usually high school kids machining a project. The bus is driveable but it takes about a week to even get it ready to move. Power company disconnects power from the pole (bus has it's own meter), underground gas line for heat must be disconnected, plus the phone line, etc. Port side of the bus from driver's seat back is: electronics test bench and bolt/small parts storage; stacked tool cabinet with hand and air tools; large floor-mounted grinder 12x2 wheels and 3HP; variable speed drill press with interchangeable table setups; oxy-acet tanks; welding table with an arbor press at one end and a 5" Wilton machine vise at the other that doubles as the vise for a homemade 2hp abrasive cutoff saw (Smith electric welder underneath); large 2 stage air compressor running air down both sides of the bus; crane that swings out to lift heavy stuff in through the back door of the bus and swings out of the way during normal bus usage. Starboard side: Solvent washer; Rockwell 6x12 surface grinder (soon to be replaced by a Bridgeport 8x15 grinder) homemade 17" power hacksaw (slides out into bus aisle to cut long pieces then slides back out of the way between the surface grinder and the; 8" Logan Shaper (soon to be replaced by a 10" no name universal shaper with clutch); Alexander horiz/vert. milling machine (think Deckel F1); shop vac; small 20,000btu furnace (keeps bus at 72 degrees in -30 degree weather); custom made cabinet that fits over the wheel well (can't put machine tools on top of a curved surface) that has 4 columns and 7 rows of drawers. Top drawer is 1" deep, progressively getting larger to the bottom drawers that are 10" deep. Beautifully made by a friend in 34 hours. I made him a woodworking lathe in exchange that could swing 2 feet and 10 feet between centers! . . . only took me 3 years to build; small stock 5 drawer storage; 12x40 Jet lathe with many attachments. Bus is 8 feet wide and 35 feet long. You can stuff a lot in a bus. Just make sure you're not over 6' tall! Key is to get out your graph paper, draw up the walls, make the outlines of each tools (plus operator's space) and start arranging them in your grid. (Wife's idea again.) You can rearrange and come up with an arrangement that will work for you. (Now if I can just find a double deck British bus I can put the wood shop upstairs!) Mike Fendley, LeClaire, Iowa ------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:54:55 -0000 From: "Art Volz" Subject: The Olde Gray Bus...She Ain't What She Used To Be... Mike--A while back I remember seeing a CAD drawing you made of your bus- shop layout. Is it still posted at http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox along with the PICs you sent me a zillion eons ago?? A bus as a shop is a SUPER-FANTABULOUS idea. I don't know what it would take to convince local zoning authorities to believe it was not a ded vehicle but, instead, a legal building...some sort of camouflage facade perhaps? (Probably not in Central Georgia though, right Terry?) Several years ago, when Mike first showed me PICs of some of his internal shop-bus tool clusters, I was (and still am) totally inveigled with the possibilities for using such a bus as a shop...or a couple two-three of 'em co-mingled into a super "cluster- bus" configuration. I don't know what the going rate for used school buses is--without an engine they're just scrap on wheels not yet hauled to the junk yard. Can they be readily moved as "trailers"??? I even went so far as to go to a K-mart (still had one in Houston at the time) and purchased a number of Hot Wheels school buses--and several "lidded" Brit doubles--just to visually play with the possibilities of arrangement: side-by-side & stacked & even partially buried at an angle in the ground like the famous Texas highway art display of ded Cadillacs is so disposed. One at an angle--with interior stairs & slide--could it be a shop office/library? Maybe even a rookery for crows...atop a hill in south central Tejas? Several years ago, in the Wall Street Journal, there was a front-page discussion of the huge excess number of truck-trailer size ocean cargo containers--you know, the ones like the ones parked behind all of the Wallie Marts NLT Easter time each year filled with next Xmas' Chingolese manufactured goodies. The Journal story related how it was cheaper to just discard these containers here after use on the China Clippers than to return them--EMPTY--to the Pacific ports of origin. It related how huge stacks of these containers were piling up at all of our ports. It also told of how some people were converting these containers into all sorts of innovative buildings-- stacked & angled & welded together with holes & doorways & window ports cut where ever an acetylene torch could be gotten to. I wonder how much these containers cost...and how much it costs to move them? (Interestingly...I just remembered...40 years ago with the 1st Cav on the DMZ in Frozen Chosen...just below the Imjin Gang River...the 1st Battalion, 21st Field Artillery (105mm towed), had its battalion fire direction and operations center in two semi-trailers revetted next to the gun emplacements on a drained rice paddy. Slicker than winter kimchi...in the mooooooor-ning...when your house boy awakens you by the breath that his breakfast of such caused.) The special trucks that regularly cart these containers--across America to Wallie Mart after Wallie Mart--are as ubiquitous as the Wallies they serve. Hmmmhhh?? Maybe a new business for Wallies...one way containers and then sold locally for "agricultural" storage purposes?? Would really PO all of the rural steel building and Quonset hut sales folks. (There's gotta be an "angle" here...somewhere. If Billy Sol Estes could....) If I only had the land...where the deer and the antelope (still) roam, and.... Art (In Houston North...avidly at play on my floor-ruggie (with Shirley my "vicious" shop-mutt in ready attendance)--the floor-ruggie with all the printed streets and buidings...moving hither and thither my "fleet" of Hot Wheels buses. And dreaming.) ------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:17:07 -0500 From: "Ray Ethridge" Subject: Re: The Olde Gray Bus...She Ain't What She Used To Be... Art, yes the cargo containers are nice. I have a 8'6" x 48 foot one I had delivered out here, the total cost was $2200, plus the two days (and two broken jacks, a bent tool bar on my tractor plus some torn up fence posts) it took three guys to move it an additional 300 feet past where the truck driver dropped it off. I couldn't begin to tell you how many times I buried my 85 horsepower tractor moving that thing! Those things weigh about like two 24 inch Rockford hydraulic shapers and are far more difficult to move! Ray Ethridge ------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:52:55 -0000 From: "JimSr" Subject: Re: The Olde Gray Bus...She Ain't What She Used To Be... I have a overseas shipping container for a shop. It is an ex freezer container, so it is well insulated and is 8' x 8' x 40'. I know someone who has put two of these together. Mine has stainless steel walls. They weren't as plentiful when I bought mine and I paid $3,000 including painting it and delivery. They off loaded mine nearly where I wanted it. I had to jockey it around a little to get it exactly where I wanted it. I sat it on 2 pieces of 10" channel iron 10' long, one on each end. I made and adapter to go in the slots on the ends to lift it with my a 20 ton jack. I leveled it up with 8" x 8" shims whatever thickness I needed. It has been sitting there for over five years and I just the other day leveled it up for the first time since setting it in it's spot. It is great and since it is so well insulated it is easy to heat and air condition. If I had it to do over again and since they now have larger units I would have got the largest one I could and especially a taller one. Mine is like about 84" high inside and that limits some pieces of machinery out. It is still a work in progress and I have been slow on the progress. I just put a 100 amp electric service in it last year. Before that I was running off from a #10-3 extension cable but only 120V. But now I have 230V single phase power... I am still using temporary lighting...haha... I have 4 8" two tube fluorescent fixtures bought and installing them will be my next project in there...haha... It seems that being retarded, oops I meant retired and seventy some years old the things I used to do in a day now take me a week or more and so on... It makes a great shop!!! I hope I get everything finished before passing on to Glory Land...haha. JimSr ------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:57:21 -0000 From: "metalchipster" Subject: Re: The Olde Gray Bus...She Ain't What She Used To Be... Art Sed and Axed: > A bus as a shop is a SUPER-FANTABULOUS idea. I don't know what it > would take to convince local zoning authorities to believe it was not > a ded vehicle but, instead, a legal building...some sort of > camouflage facade perhaps? (Probably not in Central Georgia though, > right Terry?) You be rite 'bout that Art! Our county was annexed into "Metro Atlanta" this year. So, like every other county in Metro Atlanta has done, the county commissioners decided they had to control everything that goes on with everyone's property. No more chain hoists hanging from tree limbs (putting the shade-tree mechanics right outa business), no loaded flatbed trailers sitting around (I'm still in discussion with them 'bout this one), no buildings of any type (dwelling, storage, garage, shop, etc) on residentially-zoned property that does not have at least a 4 in 12 pitch (they say this is to keep the trailer trash out of the county). The pitch rule itself prohibits school buses and cargo containers. I was looking at buying a couple of cargo containers for storage last year. It would have cost $5,000.00 for both (delivered). A friend of mine had a huge one set up behind his house on concrete blocks. It cost him $3,000.00 delivered and set up. Before I followed through with purchasing my containers, the zoning people made my friend move his or face criminal (not civil) charges. It cost him $1,500.00 to have it removed and part of the deal was that the company that moved the container got to keep it. The really sad thing is that we both live in a rural area (but not for long) and his house (and the container) was right in the middle of his 90 acres. The only way anyone other than an invited guest to his home (or a snoopy zoning officer) would have seen his "container" was from the air. This happened BEFORE the new zoning laws went into effect. Anyway, for me, that put an end to the idea of using shipping containers as storage. As far as school buses go, they have unlimited uses. One of my best friends in school wanted to be a doctor. When we were in junior high, his father purchased all of the materials and equipment from a deceased doctor's estate. He also purchased a very large surplus school bus and put it up on blocks in his back yard. My friend and I spent hundreds of hours in that bus performing operations on dogs, cats, other pets, calves (you name it and this guy could do it) and humans (burning off warts, stitching up cuts and other small stuff). They finally got rid of the bus when my friend flunked out of medical school (he became more interested in the girls than his medical career). Well, gotta go, gotta get the chain hoist outta the big oak tree in the front yard. Never know 'round here when the zoners 'll show up and write ya a criminal citation. Don't know what I'm gonna do with that big ole metal shaper hanging from it. It won't fit in the shop. I guess I can put it on the bottom of my swimming pool. I gotta drain the water out of the pool anyway. Ya can't have standing water in your yard in this county don't ya know (new zoning law). Terry ------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:01:50 -0000 From: "dreilanderecht" Subject: Re: The Olde Gray Bus...She Ain't What She Used To Be... I have seen a fishing lodge made out of two shipping containers, each with a pitched roof added to make it look more like a conventional building. Worked very well...the roof extended past the end to make a small porch. The container doors on the end opened out all the way around to the side when occupied, leaving an ordinary door and window exposed, but when shut up it was secure against all but the best equipped vandal. There would of course be extra cost in adding the pitched roof, but it could still work out quite a good approach overall. It certainly suited the fishing club since they needed a vandal resistant approach...their last club had been burnt down...but since it is on conservation land it had to look reasonable too. regards John ------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:32:39 -0000 From: "JimSr" Subject: Re: The Olde Gray Bus...She Ain't What She Used To Be... Terry that is absolutely unbelievable. It is time to run the county commissioners out on a rail with it stuck up their you know what. If I owned 90 acres and wanted a container car on it it would be there and I wouldn't ask and I won't tell you what would happen to any who tried to come on to my property to stop me or get me to move it. If WalMart can have them by the thousands without asking anybody and without paying any so called permits fees why do you suppose that is. Commissioners work for us and they can be gone by us. Get mad and get rid of those pukes!!! My lord what have we become in this country? Who said we are free? We had better wake up and bind down our government by the chains of the Constitution. It is time to rise up and be heard. Are we already too late??? WE THE PEOPLE are the sovereigns here. This government was created by us and WE THE PEOPLE are the power. OR after reading what I just read herein I wonder how we can go around the world representing ourselves as the land of the free and the home of the brave and a country republic??? Or am I that far off base in my thinking? Am I living in the dark? Do I have my head stuck in the sand? My lord Terry tell me that what you are saying is untrue. JimSr ------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:17:34 -0000 From: "metalchipster" Subject: Re: The Olde Gray Bus...She Ain't What She Used To Be... John, I think this is a great idea. The conventional-building look might even work in this county. It depends on what is considered a permanent structure. To get some clarification of our new zoning codes, I contacted our zoning administrator and asked him specifically about cargo containers and school buses (thinking that they would be prohibited due to the new 4 in 12 pitch roof requirements reported last week in the newspaper). He informed me that the 4 in 12 pitch roof requirement would not affect cargo containers or school buses because the requirement is NOT a county ordinance. It was printed in the local newspaper as a new ordinance but was actually just a recommendation. So, it is not yet in effect. However, he did say that school buses are not allowed on residential property unless they are fully licensed and driveable as a motor vehicle and are not supplied with an outside electrical source. They also must be moved periodically to show that they are fully driveable. There is one exception to this rule. See below. He also said that cargo containers are not allowed on residential property unless they are under 200 square feet of floor space. If they are under 200 square feet then they are allowed but they must be located so that they are out of view from any public access roadway and/or the resident's private driveway. My friend's cargo container contained more than 200 square feet so that is why he had to remove it from his property. There is one exception to this 200 square feet rule. See below. The EXCEPTION to the rules above are that both school buses (and other non-operating motor vehicles) and cargo containers of any size ARE ALLOWED on residential property PROVIDED they are fully enclosed within the confines of a permanent structure. Well, if you've got to build a permanent structure to put these things in then you might as well just use the structure itself for storage. Unless, of course, the school bus or cargo container provides added value (insulation, security, portability, etc.). Terry ------- Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:22:08 -0000 From: "clive603" Subject: Re: it's on order I'm a great believer in using modified filing cabinets to support modestly sized machine tools and provide loads of protected storage beneath. My Taig sits on a bench top 25" x 55" made from a cut down desk top supported by a triplet of three drawer filing cabinet assemblies. These started out as four drawer units, removing the bottom drawer put the bench top at just the right height. Three drawer ones would be a bit high I think unless you removed the plinth. Bolt the cabinets together and fit some sort of foot on the bottom edges to stop them burrowing into the floor. For a really solid stand. I welded some inch square tube onto the bottom 'cos I had a load but there are many other satisfactory ways, use what you have. The drawers have nice runners and a good load capacity which is nice but, typically are only half height. I either extend the sides or fit lift out trays depending on what I want to put in them. Two wide would probably be enough for a Taig and computer. Best way to obtain cabinets is when the firm is having a clear out. I got loads (20!) free on a "take 'em away basis" as it saved the price of a skip [dumpster rental]! Having a surplus provided plenty of metal for lift out trays too, cutting down extra drawersis the easy way! If you have to buy remember that used office furniture suppliers frequently have to take away stuff that is not really good enough to sell when they clear offices. Plenty good enough for a workshop tho', ask nicely and you should get some bargains. Another possibility is to convert what are called in the UK "Mobile Work Carts". Basically two door cupboards on wheels. Made from plastic but very strong if you push tight fitting wooden battens down the hollow sections and bolt the shelves & back in place. Substitute a bit of kitchen worktop for the plastic top. B&Q in the UK sell one made by Krieter for about £45 but I suspect this sort of thing can be found all over the world. One should be about right for a Taig. Two did very nicely under a SouthBend 9" lathe. HTH. Clive ------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:52:17 EDT From: wanlikerx~xxaol.com Subject: Lathe alignment One factor not mentioned is how the Sherline lathe is mounted, if on a warped board, it can twist, or curve the bed, and this will throw things out of alignment. A cheap Chinese Surface Plate from Emco or other discount tool place makes a wonderful stable, but heavy mount for a Sherline lathe or mill, and it will not be changing overtime the humidity changes. Try to catch them on sale or free shipping.... Mark the mounting holes, use a carbide bit to drill holes large enough for a threaded insert, epoxy it into place. Then, draw file the inserts to be sure there is nothing above the surface. Once you have the lathe mounted you can use a dial indicator to see if any shims are required under a mount point to correct the bed, until it is complete flat in every direction. Also before mounting the lathe, check the mounting points, on the underside of the bed for any high spots or burrs, draw filing will work nicely. The lathe must also be flat on the bottom if errors of alignment are not going to be induced by mounting it on a flat surface. In large lathes there is a great deal of effort put into mounting the lathe, so there is no twist, or bow in the bed, either convex, or concave. With any bed misalignment the accuracy of the machine will be gone...or at the least, greatly compromised. The very first steps for accuracy in a lathe is: - Check the alignment of your bed mounts. - Mount it so there is no distortion induced into the lathe, unless it is correcting previous distortions. - Mount it on something that is stable. bill CCED ------- Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:30:40 EDT From: wanlikerx~xxaol.com Subject: Check out Workshop tips - Index Workshop tips: http://www.bhi.co.uk/hints/index.htm This is a clock site, but there are also a lot of things that would help a modelmaker, or a machinist,,,,such as a BA thread chart, gravers, plus a lot more. bill ------- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:08:54 -0400 From: Ronald Thibault Subject: Re: ? on how sturdy a table is needed for 10" Atlas At 10:35 PM 9/23/2003 +0000, you wrote: >I have an old cast iron drafting table that I could use for a base on >my Atlas 10". BUT I'm not sure that it would be heavy enough. It is >large enough, about 5 foot wide and over 2 feet deep. It weighs over >100 Lbs and with a good solid wood top would be closer to 200 Lbs. No >drawer space but I could make some. Iron uprights and cross pieces >all bolt together with large bolts and a wooden table is to be bolted >onto the top. I never had the opportunity to see an original Atlas >table up close to see how sturdy they are. Only am familiar with how >Atlas says a table should be. I really don't want to make a large >table out of lumber. If anyone is familiar or had suggestions, if >possible also reply to my email to amke sure I get your suggestions. >Thanks, mdmltx~xxaol.com My bench is an old steel office desk, with the legs replaced by cinder blocks. My present lathe is the third one I've had on the desk. I have a short article on it in the Atlas section of my Web site (address below). Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USA http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/t/h/thib9564/ ------- Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 16:41:48 -0700 From: k6sufx~xxdirecway.com Subject: Re: Swarf cleanup [Metal_Shapers] Hi All: turning a bit cooler now so went out to the shed and cleaned up a bit. Any good ideas out there for cleaning up swarf and junk? I have gone through two shop vac hoses from getting leaky by drawing chips through them. I turn aluminum, brass, bronze, steel and cast iron (I know about the stunt with CI of a magnet in a sock). Of course some of the swarf is oily and some is dry, some long curls and some fine shavings. My lathe is on a sheet metal tray with about 1-1/2 inches deep with the walls close to the front. Have tried shop vac, brushs of various kinds and seem to spend more time in clean up than in working on projects. (Another good reason not to search for special colors to paint things.) John Meacham High desert of California, and a sloppy worker too. ------- Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 20:01:06 -0400 From: "S or J" Subject: Re: Swarf cleanup Hi John, same problem everywhere. I took advantage of some of the other folks' workshop ideas covered in more detail in the file "Workshop Tips" on the site Machining and Metalworking at Home found at http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/ Essentially I try to strategically place tempered hardboard sheets to redirect stuff that misses the chip tray. An old-fashioned rough bristle- broom and dustpan is used on a fairly regular basis to gather the worst of the sharp, curly stuff that made it to the floor. The shop vac is used only to remove the tiny bits that are left. Incidentally John, your fine advice on many subjects appears in various files there. Thanks for your frequent help to others on these metal groups. Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada ------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:21:09 -0400 From: "Ron Ginger" Subject: Re: IR temperature measuring devices Be very cautious with the readings from these IR temp devices- they are measuring the IR Reflectivity, not really the surface temp. To see the results try a little experiment- find a desk lamp with a metal shade that is painted white inside and black outside. Let it warm up from the light bulb, then measure the inside and outside temps- you will find a large difference, when the thin metal shade is obviously the same temp on both sides. I was measuring outside temp of the boiler of the narrow gauge RR and can see a difference between the black boiler shell and the gold numbers painted on the boiler. I first found it when measuring the temp around my home boiler - I saw a large diff between the copper pipe and the cast iron pumps. The IR temp measuring gadgets are neat, but don't believe everything you see. ron ginger ------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:01:11 -0000 From: "mmurray701" Subject: Re: IR temperature measuring devices Yeah they are off a little on shiny surfaces. A small square of black "electrical" tape will give you a good reading with the IR gadgets. ------- Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:34:06 -0000 From: "Peter Verbree" Subject: Re: shop temperature Hi Lee: I live in Northern Ontario, Canada, so my situation is very much like yours. I tried the unheated shop thing the first year I lived here. It didn't work very well. Even with the wood stove glowing red hot I could only use my machines after a couple of hours of warm-up. Condensation was a very big problem as well. I ended up oiling up everything and waiting for spring. (It was a long winter.) 3 years ago I bit the bullet and insulated the shop, and now run a small electric heater to keep the temp above freezing( 35*-40*f) I go in the shop now and in 15-20 min I get every thing warn enough to use (still heated with wood stove). Sometimes it gets too warm. I suggest you preserve it well and wait for spring, or move it somewhere where you can at least keep it above freezing. Just My $.02 Pete, In the great white north ------- Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:18:55 -0000 From: "Art Volz" Subject: Re: shop temperature Pete-- Glowing red wood stoves...and of fond memories of wintery days at my uncle's farm...just outside of Avilla...and a bit further north west of Fort Wayne. A section north, my great-grandfather had built his farm, and raised a family, upon his return as a wounded vet, a volunteer with an Ohio Infantry Regiment, a survivor of a prisoner camp of the war between the states. In the central room, of my uncle's mid-1800's two story brick farmhouse, stood this monstrous (to me in my youth) cast iron pot-belly stove that too glowed red in darkening afternoons as the wind whistled about the eaves. What a magical beast it was. Fed corn cobs to get it going, and split oak and hickory from the woods back by the Interurban line that dad, in the twenties, used to hop on in Fort Wayne and, in very short time, sped electrically to the pathway that led thru the cornstalks to my uncle's house...and Mr Pot-Belly. Often, as if secretly beckoned, I would stand before its mouth and attempt to peer deep within as the flames danced behind its eissen-glass eyes in reddish-orange glow. Long ago... in days of auld lang syne. Art (Houston) ------- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:17:44 -0000 From: "stevenson_engineers" Subject: Re: Heating for the workshop "yrrab57" wrote: > Any way, here in Britain it gets cold in the winter, not very cold > just down to about zero centigrade most times, but it is damp as well. > I have a shed in the garden which is my workshop and already I can > see that some of my valuable tools are starting to go, rusty. > What is the most economical way to prevent this? Probably an oil filled electric radiator. You just need to keep a temperature just above freezing to stop rust. Whatever you do don't go for a bottled gas heater, these give out their own weight of gas as water vapour. Fan heaters also work but tend to run away with the pennies a bit. John S. ------- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:54:31 -0800 From: "Carol & Jerry Jankura" Subject: RE: Heating for the workshop You might shop around the various shops and buy some Boeshield T-9 and spray it on the tools in your shop. It's a good rust preventative spray. Jerry ------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:10:00 -0600 From: "fl.lusen" Subject: RE: Gooseneck Lamps [POSTED TO Metal_Shapers GROUP] [TASK LIGHTING FOR A MACHINE] I do not know if it would fit your needs but Sears has a Detail Work Light #923499. It has an 18" goose neck and a 71 1/2" cord with an on/off switch. There are two different mounts. A permanent one and a clamp one. It takes a 40w type B bulb. Fred in North Texas ------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:17:39 EST From: n8as1x~xxaol.com Subject: Re: Gooseneck Lamps very common in the 30's & 40's ,in many households....i located several in flea market type second hand shops to add to the one i still had from that period ... FWIW the one on my atlas shaper is coming off & a 12 dollar chineese swing arm replacing it (msc/fleamarket).........simply want more angles & extension best wishes docn8as ------- Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:15:06 -0000 From: "Joe Guidry" Subject: Re: Gooseneck Lamps Don, I was able to find a lamp on an old parts washer, the same as the SB, and got the flex, several of them at yard sales, on the last Enco sale book there are two lamps that look like to old SB, I posted a pic on the Shaper pic group page of the one I just put on mine. good luck, Joe Guidry ------- Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 04:07:31 -0000 From: "jpkull" Subject: Re: Gooseneck Lamps Look at McMaster-Carr item #1606K11. It's almost identical to the original SB lamp. I used two of these on my mill. Very nice. Jim ------- oldtools digest Subject: A bench update tale From: "Ken Greenberg" Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:16:57 -0800 One of the projects that I have been postponing for a good long time is a couple of updates to my bench. I built it about five years ago (I think) with just the single vise on the side, but always with the intention of adding a tail vise "someday." At the same time, I decided to add end caps. I was able to score a mahogany 2 x 4 at a now-defunct local wood store at a good price, and half of it is assigned to be the end caps. I did the easy one first, allowing me to re-install the Tom Holloway end planing stop for the first time in the new shop. Never worked right (or for long) because it was screwed into end grain. Now with the end cap, it seems much more secure. On to the hard bit - the tail vise. Santa had delivered tail vise hardware last year, and one reason for scheduling the project now was that we don't want Santa to feel that gifts just sit under the bench forever. Best to get it installed before his next visit, I figured, or there might not be more stuff coming from the North Pole (or wherever Lee Valley is located). So I dig out the Workbench Book and decide that the design used for the very similar tail vise hardware on Michael Fortune's bench ought to be about right. Besides, he's a nice guy. Anyway, I made the core box out of some scrap oak (easier to understand if you have the book) and managed to make everything fit. Milled a two- inch wide board out of a piece of firewood (madrone) as being the only stuff in the shop wide enough for dogholes. Lots of scrub plane work there. All fit together properly in very little time, and on to cutting off a corner of my bench. This actually worked pretty well with just a couple of Disstons (rip and crosscut) although I resorted to 'lectric power for cutting through the threaded rod. Not about to risk any good handsaws here. I never was able to get the rods out after using them as extra clamps during assembly, and the end of this one was just in the way. No problem, and I was really careful to avoid cutting through the leg supporting the bench, now wishing to pull an O'deen here (see Workmutt threads). Uh oh. See what's coming here? Yeah, me neither five years ago. The bench is supported by two leg assemblies made of 3 x 3 scrap, and one of them is right where the vise has to go. The vise is about four inches thick, the benchtop is about 2 1/4, and there's no way the vise and the leg can coexist in the same space. I go back and look at the pictures in the book, and sure enough the tail vise end of this bench is supposed to be a long way from the support leg. Sigh. OK, I consider my options carefully and decide the only practical solution (the benchtop stretcher being in the shop for repairs) is to make the leg assembly shorter. So I take everything off the bench, wait for my wife to show up and give me a hand getting the top off base - it's pretty heavy with the existing vise. I then take the bench apart and cut about seven inches off the stretchers, making new tenons. The other bad news is that the bench has a back for added stiffness, consisting of four tongue and groove boards screwed into the legs and carefully cut out around the top and bottom part of the leg assemblies. Of course, these need to be seven inches shorter as well, with new cutouts on one end. Added some interest to the repairs, and produced a little much appreciated kindling. I got the base back together and convinced my wife to once again help me get the benchtop back on the base. Of course, I had to drill new holes in the bottom of the base to allow for the locating dowels that keep the top from sliding around. The good news is that I never made any decent under-bench storage as yet. If I had built-in drawers and such, I would have seriously thought about making a new bench top instead. This was all last weekend, and today I finally managed to get the vise assembly installed. Not quite finished, as I'm waiting for the glue to dry on the top of the vise box before attaching the doghole part. A few other small steps like drilling holes, but I'm feeling good about this right now. Of course, I started with a totally clean benchtop this weekend since it was on its side on the floor. Thus anything on top of the benchtop now has to do with installing the vise hardware (except one sheet of sandpaper from another finishing job). There's a few tools that got used in mounting it: http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/tailvise.jpg Of course, I could have used one brace to drive in the mounting screws and to drill the hole for the large mounting bolt (about a one inch center bit worked best) but where's the fun in that? I mean, if you're going to go around changing bits, you might as well not even own multiple braces, I figure. I really did use every tool on the bench on this job, and I'm not even finished yet. I am feeling pretty chagrined at not having planned this better five years ago. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I saw what I was going to need to do to get out of this little jam. So much for planning ahead. -Ken Ken Greenberg (kenx~xxcalast.com) 667 Brush Creek Road, Santa Rosa, CA 95404 woodworking page: http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm ------- Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:34:45 -0000 From: "Ernest Lear" Subject: Re: OT, but only just. I live in the wet part of England in the SW. And I never measured how much rain a year but we get a lot. I just keep the tempature up to 45-50F with the aid of two 250W greenhouse electric heaters switch on 24 hours a day in the cold wet weeks of the year. I always clean down my lathe and oil all exposed bare machined surfaces after each time I finish using it. I do not have a problem with rust. But I keep an eye open all the time and take action if needed, but up to now all is dry and rust free within my little workshop. Regards Ernest ------- Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:57:17 +0000 From: "Del Stanton" Subject: RE: Re: Mounting 2019 mill In taigtoolsx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Jim Stoll" wrote: > I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of my new 2019 mill (which will be > immediately setup for stepper-based CNC - so I need to consider the > room needed for the mounts, motors, cranks, etc). I'm lookingaround > at various places in my house (ok, well, the garage amd basement at > least... ;-) to set this thing up when it arrives. What kind of > things should I consider in selecting a place and a surface to mount > it? Clearly, it'll spit metal bits everywhere, so that part istaken > into consideration (but how large an area will it spew on?) - how > about things like work area height (of the mounting surface), width, > depth, head room (for the Z-axis/stepper and spindle - it's > conceivable that I might mount it under an overhead cabinet if nobody > comes up w/ strong suggestions to the contrary). How about the > beefiness of the mounting area? I have laminate countertops in my > basement workroom - would bolting it to something like that be > sufficient? Any other thoughts or suggestions? Thanks! Jim With regard to spitting metal: If you working with Aluminum or Brass you will surely want to use a fly cutter to cut flat surfaces. ( I have never used such a cutter with any sort of Steel. ) If you do use one, a fly cutter will spit metal all over the place. A simple, if inelegant, solution: Take a good sized corrugated cardboard carton and cut off the top flaps and cut out the bottom so you can set it down over your milll. The top edge of this "enclosure" should be 4 or 5 inches above the mill's table. It will contain the chips so they can be readily vacuumed up. Now, only if most shop vacs were not so insanely noisy! Del Stanton Wannabee Taig CNC Mill Owner ------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 02:10:34 -0000 From: "Dan Hogsett" Subject: Re: Mounting 2019 mill I mounted my mill to a pice of 5' laminate countertop I bought from Lowes for about $20.00. I built a sturdy wooden frame for the countertop. On the countertop, I used perforated angle and 1/4" acrylic to build an enclosure. The enclosure is 2' tall with an open top and surrounds the entire countertop. I used piano hinges for holding the door. If you build an enclosure, be careful when drilling the acrylic because it will crack very easily. Use either a bit designed for this or use a very dull drill bit. A dull drill bit will essentially melt it's way through without splitting the acrylic. Hope this helps. Dan ------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:16:07 -0500 From: Ken Jenkins Subject: Re: Enclosure materials Instead of using Acrylic use LEXAN (polycarbonate). It is more expensive but machines much easier, and is highly resistant to cracking and shattering. You can use thinner sheets than you would with Acrylic so that might offset the additional cost and reduce weight to boot. Ken Jenkins ------- Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:56:06 -1000 (HST) From: benedictx~xxhawaii.rr.com Subject: Re: New to this - how to clean up... > At 08:22 PM 4/3/2004, you wrote: > >Sorry if this is a really stupid question, but I'm totally new to > >this kind of metal work. > >Currently my mill shares the side of the garage with my kids bikes, > >toys, etc. I will be looking into an enclosure soon, but for now I > >have aluminum everywhere. I'm just wondering what is the best way > >to clean this stuff up? I haven't used any coolant to cut yet so > >they are all dry. Is there any reason not to just use the shop vac > >to clean everything else up? I also heard that aluminum can ignite > >and burn just like iron filings. What sort of precautions should I > >take? Thanks! Dave. On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Scott A. Stephens wrote: > Just vacuum it up. The ignition your talking about happens when it is > hot. Since your stuff is on the floor an cold it should prove me problem. I'll second that. Even when you're using coolant, a decent shop vac will suck it all up just fine. Like Scott said, though, I definitely wouldn't position the shop vac to pick up the chips as they come off the tool. If you're using profuse amounts of coolant this may not be a problem (so long as you've got a wet/dry shop vac). But dry chips come off plenty hot and could ignite dust and stuff inside the shop vac if you're pulling them right off the tool. Just wait 'till you start cutting steel! Tom ------- Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Art Volz Subject: Shop Trailer Construction Details Here are some of the details concerning the shop trailer's construction: The shop trailer is 16 feet long and custom built with a welded square steel tube frame, dual axles, torsion springs, mag wheels, and is rated for 7500 pounds. It has a pressure treated 3/4 inch plywood floor over which maple tongue and groove 3-inch wide boards were installed giving a total floor thickness of 1-1/2 inches. All of the machines are through bolted in such manner that leveling is still possible. The trailer has not yet had overhead lighting or power receptacles built in, but that is next on the agenda. Art (Houston) ------- Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:36:42 -0400 From: rammercx~xxwebtv.net Subject: Re: Shop Trailer Construction Details Art is describing my trailer. I am a pack rat and had picked up a number of machines but was keeping them in my shop at work. My garage is full of antique and classic outboards another hobby with barely enough room for my old Drummond M lathe. When forced to remove my machines at work I had a serious problem. One, I can't bring myself to part with much and two, they gave me too short a notice to build anything. Several members in our Antique Outboard Club are bringing trailers to shows to house their collections. They are getting more and more elaborate every year. If it works for outboards why not machine tools. I picked a color scheme to match my green top mercurys, emerald green and Alu diamond plate. The floor I needed to reinforce to handle the weight. I had Odells a local manufacturer here in St Pete build it for me. The biggest problem was clearing out an area in the jungle I call my back yard to park it in. I also have a block wall around my property in the rear and had to remove enough to back it in. We have fairly strict code enforcement here so it must look like it is mobile but I have six screw jacks under the frame leveling and supporting it. The best part is if I move or build a shop after retirement, I now have a great trailer for my outboard display. I did position my mills and shapers so they can be operated, I just need to find the time to get it properly wired. Of course with some of my little hand operated machines all I need is